#Concerns About Collection and Content Accessibility

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coarse cipher
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As you know, it was officially stated that there will be ways for everyone to obtain the content coming to the game in the future. We’ve even seen that talismans from accounts that were reset were later given to all players. It was also said that a similar approach would apply to those who purchased Founder packs.

So how are we supposed to build a collection in this situation? If something we paid for is later given to free-to-play players, then it essentially means that item can be obtained without any effort. When I want to collect items, why are the things I own being made available to others just because some players find them inaccessible?

I’ve been playing since Preludes 4 and I didn’t mind the multiple resets, because I understood this is a testing phase. However, giving away the necklaces we received to other Envoys, and then stating that Founder pack items may also become obtainable by other players, changes things.

It was also officially stated that, in order to keep things fair and ensure no one misses out, these contents will be made obtainable. But in that case, it becomes impossible to truly collect anything. We come from a game like Warframe, where collecting was still possible. I believe that players who invest time and effort should be rewarded more — that’s what fairness means to me.

I think this topic needs a clear explanation, and I hope we get one.

gray shadow
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Unless you're a founder, almost every other thing can be aquired in warframe. Pretty sure the whole list of unique items is something like this:

  • Founder Gear
  • Mag & Frost Heirloom
  • Some misc sigils and emblems and whatnot from some old events.
  • Some anniversary event cosmetics Tennocon Cosmetics
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All other mainline weapons and items with mastery, outside of founders stuff, can be acquired. If you're just saying you want some unique cosmetic items for being here early, then sure I guess.
Otherwise I don't really see how other people being able to also acquire a thing diminishes your collection. Some of those things, as in warframe, will still be incredibly hard to get, regardless of true exclusivity.

coarse cipher
# gray shadow Unless you're a founder, almost every other thing can be aquired in warframe. Pr...

I’m already an early player in both Warframe and Soulframe, and I’m someone who wants to collect things. But according to DE’s statement, every piece of content we obtain in the game will be given to everyone else, and in that case I won’t be able to build a collection here.

Founder packs are paid, but if free-to-play players can also obtain them later, then what’s the point of them being difficult to get? How hard can it really be?

I think you misunderstood me. What I’m asking is whether there will be collectible items in the future — will players who spend more time be able to obtain better or more unique things?

For example, something like: ‘the item you earn in this event will not be obtainable later.

gray shadow
# coarse cipher I’m already an early player in both Warframe and Soulframe, and I’m someone who ...

It's unclear (to me at least) exactly how far they're actually going to go with the "every piece" bit. Like, I have doubts F2P folks will get the eternium flowers that sf founders have, or the unique motif icons, but other people seem to think those things are also included.

Regardless, I don't think f2p folks will just be given any items outright. There will likely be a farm of some kind. Prime packs are also paid in warframe, but f2p players have a free path to that same content, for example.

That said, prime packs do also have strictly cash-exclusive cosmetics that cannot be aquired any other way. I wouldn't be surprised if Wyld packs in the future have similar cosmetic-only items that are strictly exclusive like that.

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The actual answer to your question about what will be in the future is that it's unknown to us at this time. They've stated a lot of broad things, but not given specifics, or noted whether there will be any exceptions or what those exceptions might be.

coarse cipher
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Even if it’s obtained for free by farming, through events, or by doing something in-game, it doesn’t matter—people will still be able to get it. This isn’t a system that encourages collecting or buying Founder packs. Also, it was officially stated that all content coming to the game will be obtainable for free-to-play players as well. I don’t think paid packs really have any value as collectibles. What I’m actually curious about are things like badges, talismans, costumes, etc. that we obtain through events.

There were similar things in Warframe—for example, items from the “Operation: Scarlet Spear” event can no longer be obtained. You either got them at the time or you can’t get them anymore. There were also old helmets that used to provide stat bonuses, things like that.

That’s what I’m referring to. What I’m asking for is simply a clear explanation about this.

gray shadow
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Yeah +1 it would be nice to have a clear explanation of exactly what they mean when they say "everything". How serious are they about that? Would be good to know for sure.

minor dawn
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Agreed. At a bare minimum, we know the armour, pacts, weapons, prisms, and talismans will be, those are guaranteed. At a minimum, the Flowers, and Paragon Greatsword (kinds) won't be able to be. Greatsword needing to be gifted means you need to find a founder, and the copy will in some way be marked.

Birb skins, motifs, colours, etc are unknown. So some clarification on those would be nice.

coarse cipher
# minor dawn Agreed. At a bare minimum, we know the armour, pacts, weapons, prisms, and talis...

For example, as you said, armors, weapons, prisms, and pacts will all be obtainable. In that case, it feels like there’s no real reason for me to buy these upcoming packs.

What I’m really concerned about is whether I’ll have any true collectible items. I play 100 hours and I feel that difference, but if someone who plays only 20 hours can still obtain the same things without putting in the same effort, then what’s the point? I find that unfair.

I’m not talking about the in-game drop system—I mean event-based, time-limited content like seasonal festivals. For example in Warframe, the cosmetics given during “Operation: Scarlet Spear” never came back and became collectible items. That creates a real difference and actually encourages people to play.

minor dawn
# coarse cipher For example, as you said, armors, weapons, prisms, and pacts will all be obtaina...

We don't know if the cosmetics will be exclusive or not, so those at least might be collectible as you put it. However, DE explicitly said they were looking to avoid an Excal Prime situation, so gameplay relevant items at a minimum will be able to be gotten later.

As for events: I really hate to use this excuse, but it's a pre-alpha and a fair bit too early for things like warframe's Operations. We'll get more info in time as to whether those kinds of "I was there" cosmetics will be a thing.

Overall, anything with a gameplay use, expect to be available to all players in some way or another. That's typically pretty fair. For cosmetics: too early to say, though I agree DE could clear some stuff up on that front.

coarse cipher
# minor dawn We don't know if the cosmetics will be exclusive or not, so those at least might...

If this is the case, I’m honestly disappointed, and I don’t think it’s right to call this fair. There is effort involved here, and you know this isn’t the only issue.

I can give an example from another topic: when sieges were added to the game, the number of enemies was reduced because players said there were too many. But it’s a fortress or a stronghold—of course there should be a lot of enemies defending it, and it should be challenging. Making it this easy just because some people wanted it feels strange to me and undermines the gameplay.

dense geyser
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i just don't think we need to "encourage" people to play by making things exclusive. if you come to the game late and see something you really like only to find out that there will most likely never be a chance to obtain it again, that's more often just going to put people off.

moreover there already is an incentive for playing during time-limited events; there are items that only come around during those events, and even if some of those items get added to the general drop pools later down the line, it's easier to focus-farm them during their event than it is to pray you get them from a diluted drop table afterwards. recurring events encourage people to come back and play regularly.

i genuinely don't really understand what the issue here is, because it sounds like you just want to be able to have things that Only You (and a select handful of others) have. if you're disappointed that that largely isn't going to be the case, that's fine i guess, but we already know DE don't want that, and i don't think they're open to changing their minds on it since they've seen firsthand how the community have loathed such things since excal prime and, more recently, mag / frost heirloom.

minor dawn
# coarse cipher If this is the case, I’m honestly disappointed, and I don’t think it’s right to ...

Sorry, I'm a little confused. Are you upset that players will be able to get the armour, weapons, and pacts from the Founders Packs at a later date? Because that's been stated to be the case since before the packs went live, and is listed on the Founders FAQ since launch. They've been very clear that gameplay items, at a minimum, should be accessible to anyone eventually

If it's about the cosmetics, them being clearer would be good, yeah. And I wouldn't be against some decorations or small cosmetic items coming from those, like the Earth and Sentient Ship projections from Scarlet Spear. We'll see what happens in time, and hopefully get a clarification along the way.

dense geyser
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your point about building a collection seems weird to me too, since from that perspective, anyone who comes in late will forever have an incomplete collection. that sours the entire prospect of being a collector.

in the real world, collections have value because physical goods are finite. in the digital world, though, that kind of scarcity can only ever be artificial and arbitrary, it doesn't feel justified.

gray shadow
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It's been my opinion since the old Excal Prime days that exclusive items should be constrained to cosmetic items only. My reasoning is thus: If an item has game-play effects that are unique, then it's not just the item that is exclusive, it's the game-play as well.
Even today we see this with excalp, latop, and skanap. They are unique weapons that only a limited set of the playerbase gets to play with, and that affects builds.
As a Grandmaster Founder myself, I've held the opinion that they should have reclassified founders gear to be cosmetic skins and re-released excal prime and his two weapons to the F2P crowd down the road so they could experience them, even if they couldn't look like the OG versions. Because I know if I were on the other side of that divide, that's what I would want.
And in fact, I am on the other side of that divide when it comes to some of the events. People who were there have cosmetics I'll never get. There's still a slight sting from that, becuase some of them are freaking cool, but I respect that they were there playing then and I was off doing other things. If they had unique weapons or warframes from those events that I couldn't get, I would probably not have come back to warframe at that point.

To use a theme park analogy, it's like the difference between having an "anniversary collection" T-Shirt sold one year, and selling a limited ride pass so that only people who were there at the time could ever ride that ride. The t-shirt is fine, and folks are good with that, but locking up playable content that way sucks for everyone, and just ensures it doesn't get used over time.

That's my 2 cents anway.

coarse cipher
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We’re not actually asking for extra privileges; we just want there to be some collectible items. And we don’t find it fair that things we paid for are later given for free to players who didn’t.

I also want to say that I found the phrasing “only you and a selected few” a bit rude. You know that a large part of the Warframe community is made up of long-time players, and they want to see certain things in Soulframe as well.

I don’t see this as a privilege, and I’m not saying something should always be given. Just think of it as something special—for example, things like a “closed beta badge” or giving something like “Alca’s Eye” to players who registered early.

gray shadow
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I mean, the Paragon Sword will be unique to us founders. We'll be able to give away named copies, but the original versions with no names are uniquely ours.

coarse cipher
# minor dawn Sorry, I'm a little confused. Are you upset that players will be able to get the...

Yes, I know an explanation was given, but what guarantees that the same thing won’t happen with future packs? After all, you’re paying money for them, right?

They even said these would be hard to obtain, and honestly I’m curious—if they later add a way to get them anyway, then what will they give to the people who already bought the pack? They would already have the same items, so what are they supposed to get?

coarse cipher
dense geyser
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don't say "we," i'm a long-time warframe player and a soulframe founder too and i don't care if players can get the things i bought later down the line. i didn't buy them because i thought i'd be special for it or because i thought i'd be one of the lucky few who had it, i bought them because i liked them and wanted to support DE.

i'm cool with minor cosmetic things (like the aforementioned badges, sigils/motifs, profile accolades, what-have-you) being exclusive, but that's because as a player i know i wouldn't care about not having those things. i would care about unobtainable fashion, since we all know fashionframe is endgame and it feels bad knowing you can't complete the outfit just because you weren't there at the time. i guess it's just rather unclear what exactly you're suggesting here.

minor dawn
dense geyser
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i'm not trying to be rude, but it sounds like you just want a little something extra when such a prospect was never stated or implied by DE (and in fact they've gone out of their way to state the opposite in a few cases). i don't know--the founders flower wasn't enough? the profile icons aren't enough? what more do we want to gate behind an arbitrary paywall?

gray shadow
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Yeah they even re-added the snipetron back as part of the valentines event shop a while back. I was excited because it was one of the older weapons I just didn't pickup when it was around the first time for whatever reason. So even odd weapons like that have come back.

minor dawn
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Most cosmetics also will likely not be removed from the shop after a time, if Warframe's model is kept to. DE doesn't typically remove the ability to buy things except in a few small cases they regret.

minor dawn
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Shop just made it 10x easier to grab

coarse cipher
# gray shadow It's been my opinion since the old Excal Prime days that exclusive items should ...

That’s exactly what I mean—being there at the time and owning something is a better idea (I’m not saying this should apply to everything). I’m only looking at it from a cosmetic perspective. That way, earning something special for participating at the time feels rewarding.

Of course, I’m not arguing that gameplay-affecting items or things that give extra power shouldn’t be available to others—those should be accessible to everyone. I’m only talking about cosmetics.

minor dawn
gray shadow
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Well armor and weapons are gameplay affecting items.

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So those will be availible at some point.

coarse cipher
minor dawn
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We have the flowers as a definite exclusive, if that helps, and the Greatsword copies will be marked in some way (we don't know full details on it yet)

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So that's at a minimum a couple "collectable" items.

gray shadow
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I'm kinda hoping we get to set the default colors on our greatswords so you can tell who has yours in a crowd. 😄

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You know, once we get weapon customization.

coarse cipher
minor dawn
gray shadow
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I think cosmetics have a grey area around them where exclusivity is sometimes a positive thing, and sometimes is a problem.
Like, for instance, I like that a lot of the events have unique sigils and emblems in warframe. That's cool. No hard feelings about the ones I missed.
HOWEVER, the exclusivity around the mag and frost heirloom was clearly a problem. Those were over the top amazing cosmetics people will envy for a long time, and were much more tied to a warframe -- meaning people who mained mag or frost were really bummed if they couldn't afford it for some reason.
So there's certainly a point where it goes too far.

minor dawn
coarse cipher
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When I had a problem while making a purchase, they gave me this as a gift—for example, this is my first collectible item. When I asked what would happen to this item in the future, they said, “We don't know.”

image.png
gray shadow
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The time limit was a large part of that problem.

minor dawn
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And for event items a lot were "earn within a limited time, but only for free/playing"

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Seems it's the "limited time + real money" that's a real killer

gray shadow
frozen lodge
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As someone who did buy the Mag+Frost Heirloom, I would love for them to bring it back so everyone can get it, but understand that they can't

gray shadow
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That said, I don't think the Excal Prime glyphs should ever be handed out, and those were both paid and limited time, so I think there's still a flash/size factor.

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Or it could just be me being an inconsistent human with subjective opinions.

frozen lodge
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How dare you be human!

gray shadow
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I know right? freaking sucks. lol

coarse cipher
# gray shadow I think cosmetics have a grey area around them where exclusivity is sometimes a ...

Previously, I used to approach operation missions in games with the mindset of “it will come back anyway,” so I would either play a bit and continue later or not play at all. But when I realized they don’t return, I was really disappointed. Those special emblems or seals were truly collectible, and they even had different tiers (for example: Operation: Scarlet Spear). Having similar things like this in the game would at least be great. I have no complaints about anything else.

frozen lodge
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I just think there is a little bit of a misconception in this thread. You buy founders to support development. DE was clear up front that the only thing that will remain truly exclusive are the Eternum garden flowers. The "incentive" to buy these packs are immediate access to the yet to be properly implemented Wyld's system / Gear. (I think the forum PFPs are also exclusive but not an in-game thing).

minor dawn
frozen lodge
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I for one plan on giving it away to anyone who asks tbh

minor dawn
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Yeah. Though the marked copies idea is def interesting.

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And same, there shall be many running around with Naitoshadou's Paragon

frozen lodge
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I will be like the Ghengis Khan of Paragon Greatswords

gray shadow
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-# I very much wish to give away marked copies of excal prime to my clan mates. VERY MUCH

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Sounds like we're all competing then! I will spread the name of ANOVA FAR AND WIDE

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I wonder if we'll be able to accept copies from each-other? Might be neat to also start a collection of swords from people I know who have it.

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I could see myself spending a lot on slots doing that, but I'm cool with that.
-# hoping DE is reading this

minor dawn
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Anyways we're in the weeds, back onto the feedback topic!

gray shadow
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Yeah, idk, but it feels like we may have beat this horse to death already.
I think everyone's stated their two cents. Nobody wants gameplay affecting items to be completely exclusive, but some cosmetics would be nice, and some transparency from DE would be amazing.

coarse cipher
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I think there might be a system in Black Desert where weapons have something like “crafted by …” attached to them.

coarse cipher
tardy vapor
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OP, could you explain your point simpler? I am a bit lost.

gray shadow
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They're concerned they won't have a unique something to symbolize that they were here. That a few years go by, the game releases to the public, and everyone's able to get every last little thing that makes us visually unique for being preludes players, and in turn we have no way to distinguish ourselves.
@coarse cipher, please correct me if I got any of the above wrong.

It's a little bit vain, IMO, but it's not entirely without merit either. Being able to say "I was there then" and back it up with some little unique trophy is a nice way to thank people for their help testing & support.

tardy vapor
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Thank you for explanation. DE never promised anything outside of flower and greatsword(with caveats), I do believe, and, as long as it does not concern anything gameplay-related I think it'd be fine.

frozen lodge
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I mean, isn't the preludes honor talisman going to be that testing badge in a way?

minor dawn
frozen lodge
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Ah missed that! Ty

pearl axle
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I think there is a simple way to make all parties happy, and that is to go the Warframe Stratos Emblem route. Evolving cosmetics (Motifs, Talisman, Cosmetic Armor, possibly an Honoria-equivalent) that get more ornate as time passes or as a player continually participates in returning events. That way, players who want to show that they were "there" for a certain milestone or event, can. None of those cosmetics will be un-obtainable, there will simply be a time lag in acquisition between older/more active and newer/less active players.

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On top of that I'm sure accolades will show whether a player is a founder/preludes player, among other things.

wild island
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I kind of feel like this might be a strange buyer's remorse issue.

Founders pack was to support the game.

I don't really think of exlusive items from founders or from playing in the alpha as "collectibles". More like "commemorative" I guess?

Calling them collectibles in this way feels like the way people talk about TCG that they plan to try and sell for a profit in the future.

I'm also a Warframe founder and I'm actually against keeping the Excal prime and the weapons exclusive to founders since it locks people out of some mastery xp

coarse compass
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The flowers are outright a item that you got that you have and they won't, that shows that you were a founder player. It doesn't have any real purpose and is cosmetic like you later clarified , and not many people are going to care much about it compared to heirlooms in warframe.

coarse cipher
coarse cipher
dusky orchid
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The flowers, as nice as they look, are a static decoration that you place in an instanced location that currently serves no purpose beyond walking around. I believe OP wants something that can showcase your antique status during gameplay, the Stratos Emblem example is nice, another option is the Honoria system from Warframe, a.k.a Titles, stuff that not only has 0 gameplay impact but also no fashion relevance either.

coarse compass
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Could always keep it in your inventory, and op said that vanity wasn't the point and wanting to show it specifically in gameplay is vanity not for memories sake

topaz dome
gray shadow
merry forge
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Even the tennocon ones have variants that can be obtained with regal aya

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And i suggested something similar on the forums