DE just make fast travel free

[pale bison]

As someone who has played this game since P5 fast travel being locked behind waiting on seeds to respawn every 12 hours and having it only grant 1-3 seeds, like that is just a gut punch. Once you unlock a world tree or a faction location it should be free to fast travel too. I understand about running around and exploring and such, but such a mechanic turns into becoming very annoying especially when a faction tale takes you almost across the map from the tree you were at ie a NE tree taking you to the middle of the map or further south after completing a T3 dungeon tale. The lack of freedom with fast travelling and locking it behind a item that you must obtain every 12 hours is ridiculous. Even when they add mounts you'll still spend most of your time running around. I get the that in cogah there is none but at least in normal make it free. Running from where King spawns all the way to Thrice Imp, Kabo, Spider, Wazzard, Knight, or Ruthos is tedious especially even more with them adding walls that you either have to run around or open the door just to get past. I think its best to remove the seeds, or give us a option to craft them instead of collecting 1-3 every 12 hours. Stop restricting players.

[cunning steeple]

I remember i wrote somewhere about this. My idea was each tale gives you 1 seed as a reward hence giving you a 1 free taxi to any tree you want which you can choose to use or keep. That allows people that want to farm tales lose less time on simply walking in a straight line from point A to point B

And ofc if somebody actually wants to walk to the tree its a not bad way to farm them seeds for lets say boss runs at a later time

[bronze imp]

-1. DE has already expressed many reasons for not wanting to add Fast Travel to the game, and it was a surprise they gave us what we have at all. If it becomes free, the system will lead to optimized grinds, reducing exploration and also making it harder for the devs to find certain bugs because players will not be traversing the map. There's not much reason to add small interesting camp encounters, things to collect, or explorable content if the majority of players are just going to skip over it with a TP.

Additionally, mounts are planned for later this year, and will speed up the ability to move around the map. That should likely be the first step they take to making it easier to get around, as you can still discover the odd bug, collectable, etc from the back of a wolf. But them removing the Fast Travel cost is a cat you can't put back in the bag, and would move the game to a faster pace and focus on grind optimization that I think would be harmful for it in the long term. Often, it's about the journey, not the destination.

[pale bison]

Man once you complete the main quests, all the game is, is grinding for faction rep, materials, and armor/weapon frags and runes. What are you talking about

[bronze imp]

Mostly that walling or using a mount to get between destinations lets you stumble across stuff to do, like enemy camps, or the new miniquests, animals, ruins, etc, and that fast travel leads to a gameplay pattern that skips over finding things like that, damaging the exploration focus of the game.

[cunning steeple]

this game already about grinding . with all the fragments and rng

[pale bison]

Absolutely not, if you are focused on grinding for stuff in the game fast travelling for free would not hurt the exploration aspect. You can still explore and do all those things. All the contrary having to run through small camps and such doesn't even matter cause most people who are playing and grinding aren't stopping along the way to kill enemies or charm animals lol

[cunning steeple]

^this if i got all totems i wont stop for animals/ if i got fully leveled gear i wont stop for camps to lvl up/ etc etc

its not like with free teleport you are forced to teleport

• even with mounts why should i get spawned across the map with every dungeon mission ( and no i dont think exiting where i entered is a viable way since there are crypts too)

[pale bison]

I hate to say it but mounts still wont solve the issue because people will still complain about running around everywhere. Also doesnt solve the issue of it being locked behind an item that respawns every 12 hours

[bronze imp]

We may just need to agree to disagree, but I will say I've already found myself slipping into habits that hurt my enjoyment of the game with fast travel, and I don't think it's a good thing to make it easier to use. I've given my opinion and am not really interested in a lengthy discussion on whose opinion is better, when both of us have our own fair perspectives, so I'll leave it there as to not clutter the thread with a back and forth.

[cunning steeple]

this whole problem stops if there is a way to farm the seeds which there is not

[open comet]

+1

I’ve mentioned this in other threads, but WoW learned the hard way with their Warlords of Draenor expansion that barring quick travel only serves to punish players by forcing them to deal with the same scenery that even at this point has started to age like milk.

Yes, there is a merit to having an open world to explore, but why must players be forced to do that for even the smallest of errands in the game and for every single minute chore? Sorry, but some of us don’t want to read the entire dictionary just to know a single word, nor would many players have the time.

[cunning steeple]

Fully agree and right now the content isnt that heavy yet. When the game's content becomes huge i already see people with less time to play point to the same problem as they lost too much play time on walking simulator

[pale bison]

Nothing more annoying than wanting to grind for items and knowing you are going to spend 80% of that just running around from one end of the map to the other just for that item not to drop because you know rng... and yea exactly once they add more content free fast travelling is a must or this issue will become even more relevant in the future.

[cunning steeple]

yup why the idea of being able to farm the seeds from tales isnt actually "free" teleport but still is because you can farm the seeds while playing

[torn pumice]

-1

Be patient. The game as is would benefit from fast travel, yes. But it would be counterproductive to their long term vision as stated if implemented now.

You can't give players fast travel and then take it away without major backlash.

[cunning steeple]

we already have it though so they wont take it away anyways

[bronze imp]

It is possible they do remove it with the introduction of mounts, though admittedly unlikely.

[torn pumice]

Right, I'm referring to making it free.

[cunning steeple]

and i know making it fully free can sound extreme. which is why they should atleast allow us to spend time to get more aka farm it

[mellow igloo]

+1

[pale bison]

Yes i can agree with making it a farmable item or even craftable. But then we will run into the issue further down the road of people complaining about "another thing to grind" and just for the convenience of travelling. Look how many people in game recruiting chat and region chat LF taxis, it's literally one of the most common texts i see when i play.

[cunning steeple]

why placing it as a +1 seed per tale makes the problem go away

because you still need a currency to teleport but it isnt much of a grind because most of the time you will either farm tales or hunt agari bosses

[whole pond]

Seed bugs for some accounts

[cunning steeple]

isnt that just visual though? if you relog your inventory show 100 right?

[covert ledge]

This took 4 minutes. Fast-travel is too much.

[eager pike]

-1, I think a large intention of the game is the slow pace and the exploration. There's a lot to gain from just wandering around. I understand the need for efficiency, and maybe they will look at easing fast travel in the future when we get more locations...but if you already don't like the slow-paced exploration (that isn't really that slow) maybe their other game is more your speed?

[covert ledge]

I'll provide a better detailed explanation but for now? Take it as -1. With mounts coming, and depending on how fast they are, the map might be too small.

[jaunty fulcrum]

DE has always used slowing progression as a means to keep the game relevent so people will play it longer. This incentivizes people to buy the in game currency that speeds things up. the longer youre playing the more likely you are to spend on micro transactions, its one of the main reasons warframe stayed relevent. theyd pump out dlc that has stuff people will want and will spend money to get it inseatd of grinding bc they made the grind so ridiclously hard

[dusky stone]

Only that fast travel is the consequence, not the cause

"DE has already expressed many reasons for not wanting to add Fast Travel" yet they seem to fight agains their reasoning with every update.

Exploration is already a one and done thing, once you open the map there's nothing of value to get from roaming around. If you're in the run for totems you'll go to a dedicated area where they spawn, if you want runes and equipment you farm a boss with a fixed spawn. Only reason we had to justify running around the map was for faction rep, since you could grab some tales from point A to point B and gain reputation, bow that they're tied to a three they became a destination much like bosses, instead of being part of the journey

Making fast travel free would be optimal because it pushes the devs to think of ways to make the world truly engaging, instead of it being a glorified loading screen between missions

[covert ledge]

To which then the players optimize the innovation developers brought to the table.

And thus the cycle repeats.

If you don't want to do the walk, then why play a game that feature open world? What the point then?

[dusky stone]

Dont take it back, make sure exploring is worth my time and i wont ever use fast travel

[pale bison]

Dude all open world games have free fast travel what do you mean

[pale bison]

Exactly

[covert ledge]

all

all.

[pale bison]

Okay but restricting players from basic game mechanics is just stupid and redundant and will inevitably hurt the game in the future

[cunning steeple]

Even if it wont come now it is inevitable xD

[dusky stone]

Except there is no exploration, i know exactly what i'll find from the kith of kings to the northmost circade, that isn't exploring

And the way trees are unlocked already work in tandem with exploration since they need to be unlocked before being available

[cunning steeple]

the world will become bigger and bigger

to the point mount travel will be the same or even worse then how we walk now

[full orchid]

This game is about grinding, grinding without QOL like fast travel is annoying and players that are annoyed leave the game after a while. Period.

[pale bison]

Someone gets it

[full orchid]

The back-and-forth between the Organs already disgusts me.

[pale bison]

Open exploration will always be a thing a simple qol of fast travelling for free wouldnt hurt the game if it doesnt get added now thats fine but once this game opens to the public on steam and on consoles good luck to DE if they still feel the need of locking fast travelling behind a 12 hour window and think people will want to play, just saying

[dusky stone]

That's what happens when you make the game around looting. There will always be people who will optimize their route to hell and back

If you build the gameplay around those who play the most optimal route all the time, you're making the game worse for every single person that is not doing this insane optimization thus making it the default way to play

[dusky stone]

I have constantly around 14 seeds on me, if i fast travel during a session it is once to an enclave, twice at most if i'm not feeling like going all the way back after

The point of open world is to explore it once. Because once you know what's out there, exploration is over. And if i have nothing to do while going on foot from point A to point B, my experience is not being made better by walking, it's just taking longer to 0lay the game i want to play

[analog crag]

-1

[pale bison]

An exploration game would have you farming bosses or missions to get items that then need to be crafted. Looter = grinding. Simple fact. If it was leaned towards exploration then we should get the loot as a whole item not a fragment

[mellow igloo]

Soulframe player base will burn out without these QOL changes sooner or later so all these -1 don’t make any sense to me lol

[pale bison]

@dusky stone i agree once you have all the world trees and totems exploration and running around just become inefficient

[pale bison]

For real

[analog crag]

Not everything is about efficiency

Enjoy wasting time in a beautiful world, the game isn't a checklist

[mellow igloo]

Not everything is about exploring the same damn area for the 500th time either

[pale bison]

Lol its a looter its all about efficiency

[lavish carbon]

+1 to this one. It’s an intentional design choice. We need more convenient traversal (mounts), but it should still be traversal. Full on fast travel will kill the slower pace of the game entirely, it is, again, intended to be slower (and I personally enjoy it that way).

[pale bison]

I still do enjoy open world but restricted travel is absurd

[analog crag]

Hard disagree

[drowsy coral]

it won't at all though, the combat is already ultra slow, and regardless if it's kept this way, this is a walking/traversing simulation for the most part, i'll go play death stranding if i want that thanks, atleast that one isn't full of bugs and has a godtier story

[lavish carbon]

And it also isn’t in pre-alpha, your comparison here is null. Combat is already way too fast paced - you can mow down crowds if you know what you’re doing.

[drowsy coral]

besides, besides the first time you unlock a tree and explore a area, what's the reason for forcing players to costantly have to walk there? i understand exploring the area and "unlocking it" and i agree with forcing people to explore/see it for the first time, but any further time they wanna explore should be THEIR choice, not a imposed walking simulation

[pale bison]

This fairytale of "oh open world this exploration that" will kill the game in the future people will always complain about this until they get the hint that they should just make it available

[lavish carbon]

You’re simply looking for a different experience. Your desire is valid. But it’s not the intended one for this game in particular.

[drowsy coral]

that's a opinion, the subjective take is that yes combat is slow slow compared to what the devs compare it to, warframe, which is what they meant by "slower pace" traversing is a totally different talk entirely though ofc, not that you see it that way for some weird reason you like to play walking simulations

[analog crag]

To be in the world, why must everything be instant gratification? Slow yourself down, turning this game into teleporting between points to get burnt out ASAP grinding gear defeats the point

[pale bison]

@lavish carbon how long have you played the game for

Enlighten me

[lavish carbon]

I’ve unlocked almost everything by this point, besides the most rare drops.

[drowsy coral]

it's a game about grinding, so if that's your take, you are loosing already

[pale bison]

Thats not what i asked lol but okay

[drowsy coral]

so you've barely explored the world for the first time basically, you are not yet burned out by having to walk to that specific spot over and over again i see

[dusky stone]

Did that already
Once, twice, thrice
By the tenth time going from a dungeon exit back to the world three the beautiful scenery becomes just a scenery, it loses its magic

[covert ledge]

Basic

It's not basic game mechanic. It's a convenient game mechanic.

I'm not even home so I'm not participating until then.

[mellow igloo]

If you can acquire something in a game it will bring a grinding culture with it - this is inevitable

[analog crag]

The fact you condense Soulframe to "It's about grinding" is precisely why free fast travel would be a problem

[mellow igloo]

Forcing people to slow down when they want achievement is a wrong thought

[analog crag]

Again, hard disagree

[drowsy coral]

yet for whatever reason you want to impose that we all are forced to endlessly play a walking simulation instead of, you know perhaps having the choice bethween walking and teleporting? we aren't saying tp is the only option we are saying the option SHOULD BE THERE for those that have done the exploring part of the game

[analog crag]

You have the option

[lavish carbon]

If you intend to run the game into the ground with hyper efficient grind when there isn’t all that much to grind in the first place, be my guest. You do you. I don’t know why you keep running around if you’ve spent so much time here and got everything. You sound like you’ve simply burnt yourself out. It’s not the game’s problem.

[mellow igloo]

It absolutely is the games problem if players face burnout

[lavish carbon]

That is definitely one way to interpret it

[pale bison]

What is bro talking about

[drowsy coral]

i didn't, but you say that grinding is pointless, and you said so about a game that's heavily based on grinding, so i was just questioning what the hell you even know about the game if that's your take

[analog crag]

I did not say that?

[drowsy coral]

you don't you itnentionally want people NOT to be able to teleport, you don't want the option for ANYONE

[pale bison]

Simple fact. Look at in game chat and tell me how many people ask for taxis

[analog crag]

...that's also not what I said?

[pale bison]

Its the most common message

[mellow igloo]

Let people teleport if they like it’s not like you have to use it

End of story

[drowsy coral]

exactly

[drowsy coral]

exactly, yet those think NOBODY should be able to for whatever reason because it breaks their objective take of what the game should be

[edgy atlas]

The map is dogshit for exploration anyway. The only thing to do in the game is run around an empty map to find things to kill.

Making people slow walk somewhere ads nothing if there is nothing to find along the way.

[analog crag]

Nobody in this thread has said there should be no fast travel, just that it should not be unlimited

[pale bison]

Funny thing is people here putting -1 but are probably in game asking for a taxi

[mellow igloo]

This is giving flashback to the “who should have prelude talisman”

[dusky stone]

I agree that this game is about the journey, but that's precisely why it shouldn't be forced onto us

If people are forced to walk everywhere with nothing to do but to take in the scenery, they'll begin to despise it

If people can zap here and there, and still choose to take the walk, it means you have built a world worth walking on, even if it is less efficient. And that's the best feedback the devs could ever recieve

[drowsy coral]

well that's hopefully subject to change as they add more things in, but yes people should have the option, there's absolutely no reason not to

[drowsy coral]

absolutel they are, because they have no seeds or used them all XD

[edgy atlas]

once I see DE make a good exploration map I will believe it. All their open world maps so far have not have anything that suggests otherwise.

[mellow igloo]

Yes good but I think most people are at the point where it’s like “just press W to get me to the point of interest”

[pale bison]

🤫🤫 dont say that you might cause an argument

[edgy atlas]

Heck they haven't even made dungeons worth exploring lol.

[pale bison]

THANK YOUUUUU

[mellow igloo]

real

[eager pike]

I have ~20 seeds and I only use them to move from literally one end of the map to the other, the rest of the time I walk. I have never even played co-op. I just don't think it's as boring as you think to walk around the world and clear camps, I'm sorry this game isn't what you're hoping it to be?

[mellow igloo]

The payoff of exploration simply isn’t there

[dusky stone]

But what is soulframe, right this moment, if not a grind game? What else is there to do, realistically?

[lavish carbon]

Well, I can only hope the devs won’t give into the pleas like these and will stick to their vision. Gamers will always want to consume content at the speed of a locust swarm, it’s no news.

[drowsy coral]

well it's in alpha, they are adding content that's in the map itself, they just added another world boss and these organs, it's taking space, but even IF the map was super full of stuff, that stills houldn't be a reason to force everybody to walk for hours on end, breaks the immersion and makes people lose interest, IF they've already been there a few times atleast, nothing against first exploration lets be clear

[pale bison]

Bro just made his whole argument irrelevant nice

[drowsy coral]

+1

[edgy atlas]

The exploration doesn't even feel alpha, it's just not there. Right now it's just a combat game. Which is even more sad because the combat is also incredibly simplistic.

[pale bison]

Try running from one end of the map to the other without seeds and tell me how that exploration is working out for you

[drowsy coral]

you just haven't walked around for your 10000th time, get to that point then tell me how fun your walking simulation is, also still explain me why the majority of recruitment chat is full of LF taxi players, you might not like it but the majority does want to fast travel

[analog crag]

There's 3 story quests to find, a bunch of locations to discover with lore entries, animals to free and charm, three cyphered languages to translate, 3 brand new mini-quests, a bunch of bosses, etc...

If you play Soulframe only to get the new goodies as fast as possible and you consider that the only thing worth doing I don't think it'll be for you long term

[edgy atlas]

I did all this in 4 hrs, and that was taking my time. All that's left now is run around doing warframe syndicates to level warframe weapons, in a combat that feels worse than dark souls 1.

[drowsy coral]

i mean it's alpha, give them time XD (i'm giving them the benefit of the doubt ok but tbh some exoscheletons are well done already, the art and ambience for example)

[analog crag]

Ok, take a break then

[dusky stone]

It's wild to me that everyone i've seen agains fast travel being free talk as if it would force people to use it

If you feel forced to use fast travel it is a sign that walking is not worth it as it is

[mellow igloo]

Soulframe in its essence is a grind as there are achievements and upgrades. This isn’t a cozy game to take in the nature. That would be animal crossing or stardew valley if you wanna hang back and relax

[pale bison]

Smfh

[eager pike]

It's not even an argument. I just don't agree with your point. I've walked around a lot and I enjoy the experience, if it doesn't work for you that's fine, but you don't speak for everyone, I think!

[drowsy coral]

sorry but once one is done with these things, what's left to do other than grinding? because that's what most of us arguing FOR fast travel are on, we have done the exploring, we have done "some" of the grinding, we are now stuck on the hard grinds while also waiting for new content

[edgy atlas]

you want people to stop playing the alpha game which we are supposed to be playing and giving feedback on the system for?

[mellow igloo]

I’m starting to get the feeling that some people side with dev decision simply because they work for them.

[lavish carbon]

I don’t think they realize that after you’ve exhausted the game’s content it’s ok to take a break. It doesn’t even take that long to begin with - took me a week after a half-a-year break to get nearly everything. We need better ways to move around, but movement should remain. If they ran around so much it became irritating, again - it’s on the player, not on the game.

[lavish carbon]

Ding ding ding, here comes the conspiracy

[analog crag]

Considering your comments you are clearly not enjoying the game so I'd recommend you take a break from it that's all

[mellow igloo]

No conspiracy I can just read

[drowsy coral]

well it can definitly be played as a cozy in nature game, but that's self-imposed, and/or maybe a first experience to the game, but it's not the majority NOR should it be made into the norm for everyone that's for sure, if ur sticking around long, you are grinding in this game, if you are grinding and you have long traversal times, by the end of the day youìll be burned out like crazy if this traversal time isn't fast

[edgy atlas]

you don't want feedback from people that WANT to like the game and don 't? just from the audience that is already bought in?

[analog crag]

That is very much not what I said brother

[drowsy coral]

to be honest that's fan boys for you sometimes... some of thema ccept 0 crytics for their loved devs not even constructive ones like those

[deft coral]

Free fast travel should be the reward for exploration. You cleanse all the trees, kill all the agari, find all the totems something. But you're incentivised to explore the map and when you do, you can optimise your grind.

[pale bison]

The game is meant to be played for feedback to be given. My feedback make fast travelling free so the game isnt a constant walking simulator

[drowsy coral]

we all know you'd be the first to take a break as soon as you are done exploring properly by the way, why are you trying to stop somebody that's passionate enough to constantly test the game and report bugs/mishaps?

[pale bison]

Ill keep saying too. Restricted travel will kill this game once it is released to the public

[drowsy coral]

absolutelt it will youa re right op

[dusky stone]

3 story quests you can only do once, locations you can discover once, totems with set locations to spawn (such as rats in swamps and, more rarely, in castles), bosses with set spawn locations

You see? Everything is designed as a destination in the map, not something you'd do along the way

I've played since p8 and i haven't unlocked everything yet, im taking my time, i dont want to rush it, and i still feel like fast travel is a net positive for the game development

[drowsy coral]

long term players will simply put, stop playing eventually due to burnout

that's simply how it'll be

[pale bison]

People on steam will destroy DE over a simple qol mechanic believe it or not

[edgy atlas]

I mean, there is no "game" here yet. it's just a collection of warframe systems. Realistically this thing is like 4 years away from being ready to be treated like a real product.

[analog crag]

I'd appreciate you not telling me how I play or feel or once again putting words in my mouth that I did not say

[drowsy coral]

pretty much ye

[grizzled stratus]

-1 i entirely disagree, i think fast travel should remain limited. it's not like the limitations here are even that strict, hold off on using them for just a few days and you'll have enough to last you unless you just want to be teleporting everywhere, which is not how they want people to play the game.

seriously, if you're bored or burned out, take a break. the devs don't want you to be playing this game 24/7, they seem to want us to take our time with it. there is nothing wrong with taking a break once you have little left to do but grind.

[pale bison]

If the game is truly that far put from being a whole wouldnt that make restricted travel even worse

[pale bison]

Last time i checked the devs like and want consistent feedback.....

[grizzled stratus]

fast travel is a choice, you can choose convenience at the cost of resources, or you can choose to keep your resources at the cost of convenience. i see nothing wrong with this.

[drowsy coral]

not putting words in your mouth you are suggesting him to NOT play, becaue you think hes burning out yet, hes played LONGEr and grinded LONGER than you, and you are telling us that we should beforced to NOT have free travel because you say so, reasoning being is still unclear tbh

[grizzled stratus]

yep, and i am giving my feedback as well. :)

[edgy atlas]

I mean think about it. It's a melee combat game with bad melee combat. An exploration game with no real reward for exploration. Dungeoneering with no real exploration. Boss fights with 1 or 2 mechanics each. Etc etc etc, this thing is nor even ready to pitch to a publisher if it was being made in the traditional way.

[analog crag]

Has he now?

[covert ledge]

Alright!

I'm home! :)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/992241169281060959/1454816783553789993/Tumblr_l_521675363993753.gif

[analog crag]

Buddy I was part of the first 500 people who got into Preludes

I sincerely doubt many people have played for longer than I have

So again, please stop putting words in my mouth or presuming you know how I play

[drowsy coral]

tell that to people spamming taxi requests see, tell that to somebody that has been around forever and is forced everytime to do a 30 min walk in ambiences hes seen 1000 times. yes they intend for people to immerse themselves in the game, but no if you play a walking simulation for the 1000th time, the immersion's gone i'm afraid, burnout sits in then

[analog crag]

You are entitled to your opinion, you do not get to tell me mine

[edgy atlas]

It'll be be just another universal vacuum. eventually they'll add it when they stop pretending that they will make exploration good. And we'll all wonder what the big deal about adding was.

[grizzled stratus]

i am telling that to everyone in this thread right now, and i'll happily tell that to anyone else as well. burnout is a sign that you need to take a break, not that you need fast travel.

[drowsy coral]

that's not how it works as absolute, that's how it works now and why there's a overwhelming majosity of players wanting free/better travel

[pale bison]

Lol go for a walk

[grizzled stratus]

ah the irony

[analog crag]

Excuse me?

[lavish carbon]

Don’t bring up majorities/minorities without concrete data.

[pale bison]

Exactly

[drowsy coral]

not doing that, you are doing all of this on your own, youa re also the one that admitted to not having the "hard" grinds done, ain't you?

[analog crag]

No?

[lavish carbon]

People will cry for a taxi for longer than it actually takes to get to the NE tree

[drowsy coral]

and yours about travel isn't a opinion? only ours?

[analog crag]

What?

[dusky stone]

Howl, please then, and i do mean this in the most respectful way possible.

If fast travel is mot intended and detrimental to the game, why is it that taxi has been a thing for as long as i've played? In theory, it undermines both the seeds and the exploration aspect.

[drowsy coral]

it can be, if most of your gaming time is taken up by walking, and right now that's exactly what msot of my in game gameplay is about, a walking simulation

[analog crag]

Because that system is taken from Warframe and nature of host/client doubles as a convenient teleport, that is not an intended mechanic

Also, again, I have not said that fast travel in general is detrimental to the game, limited fast travel is fine

[edgy atlas]

The best warframe mechanics were never intended mechanics. If warframe was just intended mechanics that thing would've died 2014.

[pale bison]

So if people are abusing this and its not a intended mechanic of the game shouldn't that just make more sense why fast travelling should be free

[covert ledge]

Play Project Gorgon.

-> Project Gorgon doesn't have an actual fast-travel system. Most of the time you're actually walking or relying on weird obscured mechanic to actually fast-travel. Which may, or may not be also extremely limited - and also on excessive cooldown. (Yippie for Enter the Light mandatory 8-hours.)

Play Outward

-> Outward's entire gimmick is that you cannot fast-travel. OR even find yourself on map. You're forced to rely on your surroundings, finding out where you are and triangulating your location in event you're lost. There are few people who managed to even abuse the legendary death-teleport with obscured game knowledge. But these knowledges are not something every player will know - and will require testing or wiki-reading to figure out the mechanic of.

Play Vanilla World of Warcraft

-> They don't want actual fast-travel, and mages charge you for opening a portal because opening a portal cost money. So your only method of fast-travel outside of mages was to ride a gryphon/wyvern. Which can take upward to 5 to 10 minutes to even half hour of waiting for the flight to end. And let me remind you that this game's map is pretty much smaller than World of Warcraft's Duskwood/Elwynn Forest/Westfall combined.

Cue being an Alliance player and having to spend 20-30 minutes walking to Scarlet Monastery because the closest FP to there was in Southhill Hillsbrad.

Play Morrowind

-> most of fast-travel is extremely limited. In fact, most of your fast-travelling comes from ferry services in few locations and usually mark/recall as well just levitation launching.

[covert ledge]

Because that logic doesn't track. Do you want your friend to appear on other side of map from you?

[dusky stone]

But it is knows about by the devs, and multiplayer could be only accessible from trees/spawns as it is with every soulslike game in order to limit it, yet no action has been taken i that direction

[covert ledge]

And have to meet up at half-way point?

[drowsy coral]

concrete data is the amount of posta that let to de accepting to "introduce" eventually mounts, the introduction of seeds in the first place, the overwhelming majority of people asking for taxi on recruit in game, this post and the many others tlaking costantly about travel, it's a constant focus, wonder why?

[analog crag]

And in the future it very well might be the case, there IS no matchmaking yet

[grizzled stratus]

DE have been teasing mounts for years at this point, it wasn't the community that convinced them to do this, it was already planned.

[covert ledge]

If they really wanted to. They could end the Taxi system by forcibly sending you back to where you were.

[dusky stone]

But that is unlimited, just inconvenient

[analog crag]

Mounts were planned from the start...

[edgy atlas]

All these games have maps designed for exploration. Not just copy pasted enemy camps.

[analog crag]

It was in the trailer for the game

[drowsy coral]

makes no sense XD so if i shoot myself in the foot and walk slower that's fine, i'll go do that i guess it's fine after all!!!

[covert ledge]

I don't know how to tell you this but...

World of Warcraft was pretty much copy-pasted all the way to level 60. Fetch-quests everyday.

[pale bison]

🗣️🗣️

[edgy atlas]

you must not have been there in 2004.

[covert ledge]

You must've been wearing that nostalgia glasses way too hard, buddy.

[dusky stone]

But they all are "finished" games with stuff to do along the way

[covert ledge]

[dusky stone]

Fair enough lol

[pale bison]

Dude mounts are only going to temporarily solve the issue

[drowsy coral]

play any of these, yet for example, see on wow where from vanilla to tbc people complained so much that they added flying, or even better since we'r here go ask around why tree teleports and seeds were made a thing, go ask why the devs decided to start talking about mounts, and go see why there's posts about fast travel AND people asking for taxi on recruit all the time, some examples of games that are walking simulations doesn't mean that the community as a whole wants this NOR does it mean that we should be forced to NOT have the option, which is implied by keeping it locked like this

[edgy atlas]

Let's say you're right. None of that means this map is worth exploring anyway.

Even worse to your argument is that THE BEST received exploration games in the last 10 years ALL have freely available fast travel.

[covert ledge]

And the PVP forum complained about how Flying ruined open world PVP forever.

[pale bison]

If anything adding mounts will make people want faster travel

[eager pike]

Mounts will probably move faster than you, hope this helps.

[dusky stone]

That would also end event sharing though, so its not as simple

[analog crag]

You aren't making a lot of sense and seem confused as to who said what but just to actually give the argument for limited fast travel:

When fast travel is limited you have to decide if you want to use a resource. In the past week I've been doing The Organ event to get the Wazzard armor. I'll often fast travel to the tree closest to the southern Organ, do that and then I'll run to the one north-east of that

I could TP to the tree nearby, but the distance isn't that big and if I did I'd be using one of my Wevetroot seeds, so I walk instead, often killing Dimrod on the way, grabbing some flowers, etc...

If fast travel were unlimited, I wouldn't make that choice, I'd just TP to whatever the closest tree was all the time

[pale bison]

No kidding duh.

[edgy atlas]

This whole thread is stupid if we just look at Elden ring and BOTW. some of the best open world games made lately and they both have free fast travel without cooldowns or resources.

[covert ledge]

How would it end event-sharing? As far as I'm concerned, it's not the same as just being forced back to your original location.

The Organ is still gonna be there. The Fort siege is still gonna be there.

[drowsy coral]

absolutely, they'll be a great addition though (if they don't make them ultra buggy=

[covert ledge]

You might lose Endless, but that's just how it is.

[grizzled stratus]

i don't really feel that this is something they should budge on, tbh. it doesn't take that long to get from point A to point B normally, with mounts it'll take even less time, and unlimited fast travel is just going to result in people exploring less, and thus unconvering fewer bugs and glitches out in the world.

[pale bison]

So you add a mount, youll have people asking for a brid that can fly

[grand fossil]

Funny enough devs in old devstreams said they wouldn't do fast travel before mounts, now here we are

[drowsy coral]

"a fraction of the pvp forum did", say things right

[covert ledge]

And what, say "skip it all and just make fast travel free"

so I can burn myself out faster?

Good job!

[covert ledge]

Not a fraction anymore. A lot more.

[edgy atlas]

Skip what exactly? the empty space?

[grand fossil]

Why would burn yourself faster, regulate yourself

[pale bison]

Burn out will happen regardless of no fast travel or free fast travel that argument is irrelevant

[dusky stone]

If you have to wait for someone in your party to walk from northeast all the way to mendicant king to resume farming you'll probably stop doing it

[lavish carbon]

I will refer you to my message about the gamer locust mentality. People want to consume. And they want to consume fast. I am faulty of this myself at times. It was so before, still is now, and will be the same a hundred years down the line.

I also want the traversal to be faster. But if everything turns into a teleport spam, there is literally no need for any other traversal mechanics to exist. That is the definition of powercreep. Unlimited teleportation will also make almost any type of random encounter or such infeasible, because they will be skipped by players who teleport around.

There is, however, one specific place I am willing to give ground on: we need to be able to enter the faction enclaves from anywhere. They are too far from most relevant farming spots. They could make it so we return back to the place we were before; or they could simply place a faction rep in the nightfold. I’d take either gladly.

[covert ledge]

I never said that.

Read before you speak.

"Force back to their original location."

[pale bison]

That's redundant and people would stop playing if that happened

[analog crag]

Free Enclave teleport would be nice yes

[covert ledge]

"People would stop playing" on your assumption?

I don't know...

I mean I still would play it.

[dusky stone]

Am i understanding this incorrectly?

You call me into your server to share a king. I'm northeast, you're there.

We kill it, i log out to share it with you, i'm back where i was in northeast and you have to wait for me

[edgy atlas]

Why can Elden ring and BoTW have meaningful exploration without limited fast travel but not soulframe?

[pale bison]

Say it louder people cant hear you

[covert ledge]

You misunderstood entirely, yes.

The point of taxi system was that people leave party as soon as they get teleported to NE.

[pale bison]

And those games have mounts......

[analog crag]

Why can Red Dead Redemption 2 and Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 and Dragon's Dogma 2 have limited/risky/slow fast travel but not Elden Ring or BOTW? These whattaboutism arguments are pointless

[lavish carbon]

Don’t compare release-ready AAA open-world titles to a pre-alpha game where only a tutorial island is available, and which still has the traversal mechanics in the works.

[dusky stone]

Yeah, but what difference does it make if i leave it as soon as i arive or after i kill a boss? It makes no sense

[drowsy coral]

i have no clue why you bring the perfect example of why somebody would want free travel on the board XD organ and being forced to walk because you are out of seeds is EXACTLY the kind of scenario where somebody with limited time, and a long grind ahead of him (bcause of odds) will get burned out from because of the majority of that grind simply being a walking simulation from point a to point be, and it'll ONLY get worse as the devs add MORE grinds, not better, heck even now it's bad, for example, if i don't want to take 30 minutes of just walking to just do three organs (which are 5 mins of these walks at best) AND also do my tales after ii can use three seeds and be done within 5 mins, but then if i want to also efficiently do my daily tale rep i want to go to the north right? welp out of seeds so what do i do? i walk (taxi obviously this is why everybody asks for taxi's) but if i couldn't taxi or use the seeds, i'd be walking 30 mins for 5 mins of actual gameplay to just get the organs AND THEN another 10-15 to get to the north and then walk due to all the goddamn tales sending us costantly to narnia XD and to daily cap out our tale rep in the north it takes 11 t3 tales, a tale on average is about 10% of the activity passed figthing and the rest WALKING to places you've been to a ENDLESS amount of times thankfully i'm rep capped but can you NOT see why for somebody that's been playing this content for long this is a insane amount of forced walking?

[edgy atlas]

Steve didn't use Red dead 2 as a sales pitch for this game. Also avoiding the question doesn't make you look any more sincere in engaging with feedback.

[covert ledge]

Because once you leave the party, you'll have to walk to boss from other side of map and invite other two to kill that boss.

[dusky stone]

That is, word for word, what i said

[pale bison]

😂😂🙏

[covert ledge]

It is not what you said.

You said that people join and they have to walk to you.

[dusky stone]

Not at all

Read before you speak

[covert ledge]

Yes it is all.

[analog crag]

Please stay civil

[pale bison]

I am

[analog crag]

You are not

[covert ledge]

And now we're getting closer to seeing this thread getting locked.

[dusky stone]

I implore you skullcat, read what i said again

"I log out to share it with you, i'm back where i was in northeast and you have to wait for me"

[grand fossil]

I think cogah is a good example here of having no means of travel, instead of it supposed to be hard mode it's mostly long mode

[analog crag]

Yes I'd like if trees worked in Cogah

[drowsy coral]

read my previous message about what one has to go through to do organ+ tales daily jus tas a example of just HOW much we are forced inot walking with the current grinding content the game has and tell me again how traversing faster to save all that walking wouldn't make the content feel better rather than making it just feel like a walking sim

[grand fossil]

Like it just takes long, it's not that hard

It's easy to make free fast travel but only after a significant amount of progression which guarantees players have explored all the map

[drowsy coral]

exactly, ur jsut hard stuck in a walking sim there is all

[grand fossil]

Which we already do btw, by cleansing world trees

[edgy atlas]

We are officially in a world where Digital Extremes is less lenient in their system designs that god damn Miyazaki in the cozy exploration gibli game lol.

[grand fossil]

We literally already explored all the map by clearing the fog, there's no exploration left

https://discord.com/channels/998758139405029478/1474439977034317845

[pale bison]

For real. Whats the point of restricting players i dont get it just for you to say "here explore our world" bruh common

[drowsy coral]

exactly, i hinted towards it a few times alreayd, i have nothing wrong with FORCING people to explore the world first, for example some games make achievements were you are forced to do certain quests or get certain objectives/achievements BEFORE they can fast travel within areas, THAT's the suggestion we are giving, but straight up saying, no you can't fast travel, is straight up evil and will get the long term players to burn out without fail

[edgy atlas]

It is also harder to respect your stats here than in Nioh 3. It's hilarious tbh.

[grand fossil]

It always goes back to encouraging vs limiting players to do things, and so far I've only seen DE limit players in many aspects of the game

[analog crag]

Running between every tree is not fully exploring the map, nor is traversing the world only worthwhile if there's always something new and shiny to see. The calm slightly boring moments are also part of the experience for me

[dusky stone]

I honestly cant understand why.
The reason we cant fast travel in cogah is so we cant trivialize danger. In cogah, at least in theory, every encounter should dangerous. Walking from one boss to the other, having to fight or avoid scouts, that' by design

[drowsy coral]

and right now, the setup de has is, cleans ea tree you now unlocked the tree AND the region, so why can't we fast travel there again for free exactly? the area's cleared and mapped

[grand fossil]

It's not dangerous is it

It's relatively easy

[analog crag]

You can have dangers on the way to bosses from the world trees as well

It's not hard to just run from combat anyway yeah

[grand fossil]

I myself have taken detours when cleansing world trees to explore

[edgy atlas]

🤔 There is no way we are playing the same game...

[drowsy coral]

ok, that's subjective once again, for NO reason, for YOU YOU wanna touch every flower ever everytime (till you burn out whcih you will) for us that played for longer, AFTER we explored and did every event once or a few times (depending on player) we'd like a option somewher eto be able to "go there" again quickly

[analog crag]

Friend, again, you have not played for longer than me

[pale bison]

So if your running from the things you should be experiencing and exploring are you really exploring

[analog crag]

I was responding to Zawaito, if the design behind no fast travel in Cogah is so you are at risk between Agari, which makes sense, then it would not be hard to populate the route from a world tree to the nearest Agari with enemy camps to achieve that design while still allowing fast travel

[edgy atlas]

They even got rid of finding syndicate missions on the way, it's almost as if p13 made us just do nothing as we walk from tree to tree.

[lavish carbon]

I’ve experienced it already. Just this afternoon for about 4 hours while farming Cogah, and running from the mendicant king to the archer in the NE. I am, however, done with the Cogah farm so I simply won’t do it anymore.

In the future I’ll be running organ-impidh-dewelion dungeon-fort kaern-organ-organ-dewelion dungeon. The first leg of the journey is long, but it’s simply cuz we don’t have proper overworld movement tools yet.

Still, in good faith, I can’t really say I don’t have anything to do every minute or two.

And to add to that: we do need some higher density of points of interest in the middle and in the south of the map - they currently feel a bit empty.

[drowsy coral]

don't need to have p'layed longer, all we need is to see that people have different objectives and needs, and different times it takes for them to be done with something, to understand that NO fast travel AFTER the area is completed, is just a self-imposed restriction you somehow want imposed on everybody because that's how YOU and you alone (and people like you) want everybody to play the game

[analog crag]

You seem completely incapable of reading what I'm actually saying because once again, at no point did I say there should be no fast travel

[pale bison]

@analog crag do you ask for a taxi

[analog crag]

Nope

[pale bison]

Lies

[analog crag]

Ok?

[lavish carbon]

lol

[eager pike]

An extremely bad faith argument.

[pale bison]

Absolutely bogus

[covert ledge]

I offer taxi to people who need Endless.

[analog crag]

Whatever helps you sleep at night I guess

[covert ledge]

Because I'm a bro.

But I don't need a taxi to Endless. I just find one and do it.

[grand fossil]

I save my 100 seeds and ask for taxi

[dusky stone]

Honestly, yeah, i can go with that
I wish enemy density would increase the closer you are to an agari (of course, not in the range of the fight, so avoiding it is still an option)

They could even have some unique cogah temporary structures like barricades and war "machines"

[drowsy coral]

i mean.. the new tree tales take even longer and are even more of a walking simulation now, and that has to do with normal tales spawning further now potentially from the tree AND from the overwhelming majority of dungeons that now spawn off t3 tales (and people are really pissed about this, look at all the feedback posts about it, it's all basically complains about how long it takes to complete them which means, for the most part, complains about all the walking we gotta do now intrinsicly)

[pale bison]

Thats different endless actually requires exploration not a simple need of getting from one side of the map to another

[analog crag]

If I need to get to the other side of the map I use a Wevetseed

[drowsy coral]

nor did i but you want it limited because you seem to want everybody to be forced to walk from time to time even when they don't want to

[covert ledge]

No. Endless just require you to run pass all mobs..

I love the good ol' Outward logic of "Just run."

[grizzled stratus]

no, endless just requires spamming the same dungeon type over and over, which should be worse if your arguments are to be believed.

[analog crag]

Yes I do

[covert ledge]

100% of your problems are solved by just runnng.

[pale bison]

True

[lavish carbon]

That’d actually be quite cool.

[covert ledge]

I'm hoping we'll get an actual endless defense wave mission. It's most likely Endless is just a prototype to figure out what works.

[grand fossil]

We should get something like that with infamy level

[analog crag]

I do actually want people to be forced to walk sometimes, to run through the world, to be a little bored and zone out and look at the pretty trees and grass, to become familiar with the roads and structures and villages

That is good to me

[drowsy coral]

and if ur out of them then what? you are very limited you know that right? or have you not played the game yet?

[analog crag]

I don't run out of them because if something is fairly close I run there

[pale bison]

No dude thats a bit ridiculous

[lavish carbon]

Change the tree. The next tree below the NE one gives infinite vadagar tales. I killed 7 bears in a row today, only had to reset once to get rid of a dungeon. Those are pretty fast all things considered

[edgy atlas]

If this is the vibe they wanted, they should've made a single player open world game. Then it wouldn't have to rub against the friction of the grindy ass Live service systems they have in this game.

[lavish carbon]

Omg yes

[grizzled stratus]

if you manage your seeds carefully you're never at risk of running out. you can get up to 6 per day if you really want to, and you don't need to use them just because you have them. seriously just have some self-control for a few days and you'll have a good enough buffer that you won't need to worry about running out of them.

[drowsy coral]

and that happens the first 1-20 times (depending on player) they explore said place, but eventually people wanna skip the view as it became monotonous to them, am i wrong or not?

[analog crag]

Then they can use a Wevetseed

You get some every day

[drowsy coral]

i mean his whole point is he wants to force people to play how he wants, his take is objective, he cares about nobody but his own way of playing hes been adamantly clear about that hasn't he

[lavish carbon]

This, too, yes. 100%

[edgy atlas]

The fact that our feedback has to go through these Mods that are all already drunk on the coolaid makes me worry this game will never reach the potential it can.

[pale bison]

Thats my point it should be a 12 hour waiting period just to get screwed and get 1 thats the restrictions im talking about why it should just be free

[eager pike]

Bad faith argument to insist someone doesn't 'care about your opinion' just because they disagree with you.

[analog crag]

Friend at no point have I said anyone who disagrees with me isn't entitled to their opinion, you meanwhile have consistently put words in my mouth, made claims for the "majority of players" based on nothing but your own vibes, and frequently called into question my familiarity with the game

[grizzled stratus]

the other side of the argument is literally doing the same thing you're accusing howl of here. at that point i'm less inclined to see this argument as genuine and more inclined to see it as venting frustration.

[lavish carbon]

^

[grizzled stratus]

and frustration is valid feedback as well, don't get me wrong, but...

[drowsy coral]

not true, and the few times it spawns, if it'sday time we have the daytime vadagar spawn bug, which happens ALOT, you gonna admit to that? that said i mostly get glades there certainly not bennered or vadagar and i do tales in group so we all check trees i hightly doubt you killed 7 bears off that one tree on your own today, don't lie XD

[eager pike]

The daytime vadagar bug has been fixed for a little bit now.

[pale bison]

Whats stopping you from continuing to explore while having fast travel being free i dont get it why cant i fast travel for free while you explore

I dont want to continuously play a walking simulator if you do that's fine

[edgy atlas]

How many arcs do you think the Wavetseeds will cost?

[pale bison]

Like 5 at most

[drowsy coral]

i gave the example earlier, 3x organ + tales, is already enough to make sure you cannot possibly manage your seeds in a way that allows you to not be bullied by walking the same scenery you've seen a thousand times before, not that you'd aknowledge that scenario don't expect you to either tbh you play in a different way i suppose, doesn't mean i or anybody else should be forced to play that way too

[analog crag]

Because as mentioned, if you give people the option to do it for free they will, myself included. Gentle pressure to do things is fine and good game design

[shrewd rapids]

+1
Honestly, the moment I pass thru the same locations more than a handful of times, its just a drag, Having to go to North and then back to faction to trade in my rep and going back to north, thats like 2 seeds right there, going to do organ? 2, maybe 3 if one is lazy enough.

Either fast travel is free when you are by the tree, or there is a more abudant drop for them

[edgy atlas]

so if you didn't have to explore you wouldn't explore? How come?

[lavish carbon]

Since it’s been fixed, I get nothing but the vadagar tales 90% of the time. For the remaining 10% I simply reset and proceed doing the bear tale again. You wake up right next to this tree, too, after reloading. And the bear spawning point is right across a tiny pond by the tree. You don’t have to run anywhere.

It is anecdotal evidence, but I rather believe my eyes and experience - I have had no issues maxing out my standing cap with this tree every day.

[drowsy coral]

not even gonna comment on that, good joke though XD

[grizzled stratus]

walking from point A to point B is "being bullied" now? this is silly. you can run between the organs, then you can run to the nearest tree afterwards to start doing tales, or you can do tales at world trees in between the organs, it's not hard to do.

[analog crag]

Idk human nature? I set out with a goal in mind and then because I am not just teleporting everywhere the game has the opportunity to distract me

[lavish carbon]

Also this clearly shows you’ve not tried it again after the fix. Please do - it is much better

[bronze imp]

Okay, this is going in circles and the feedback is no longer constructive.

As a reminder, threads are for providing feedback on the game and ideas, not for discussing other envoys. All envoys are welcome to post their opinion, and disagreements are bound to happen. Make sure to focus on the feedback, however, and not discussing or dismissing other envoys, their opinions, or their feedback. This would include things like calling other envoys liars, implying they have not played the game, or telling others to stop playing the game.

Feedback should remain constructive. Please focus on the pros and cons of arguments, and leave the person making them out of it.

[edgy atlas]

Seems weird that other games can encourage exploration without mandating it. Heck even in Warframe sometimes I just skateboard around the orb valis and take pictures. But teleport when doing bounties.

[drowsy coral]

not everythin if a personal attack to you, and we also shouldn'0t be forced to play how you want us to play through "your opinion" , we are asking for a open minded choice, you want to walk? good walk, it doesn't affect you if somebody else can fast travel, so stop trying to force us all to just walk because of your silly obsession with walking sims

[hard plank]

DE wants us to walk around and report bugs. I guess free fast travel will be implemented on launch.

[edgy atlas]

I mean when you have a mod show up to argue against feedback it kinda encourages circular conversation.

[drowsy coral]

odd i've just yesterday had the vadagar daytime bug happen twice, XD

[eager pike]

If it's still happening you should report it!

[lavish carbon]

Willingly nerfing yourself is a bad solution to an issue. This goes for both combat and traversal.

[drowsy coral]

not been fixed i jsut had the bug twice yesterday and i did alot of t3 there, more than around 70% of them were dungeons on top of that, mostly glades but oddly enough i also saw some crypts <.<

[pale bison]

It is constructive. It shows that DE needs to implement both having free, fast travel, and the ability to also explore to your own needs.

[drowsy coral]

so sorry but i see 0 evidence of this specailyl with all the people complaining about trees and tales

[drowsy coral]

i'll try it again but you said this had been fixed for a long while now, i've done it and recreated the bug twice yesterday XD

[lavish carbon]

Are you doing the NE tree, or the one right below it by a village and a little pond? The NE tree in the bog gives the crypt and the glades all the time.

I am sorry if you did the one right below the NE one and your luck has been so abysmal. Cuz for like 20-25 tales I’ve done, I had at most 3-4 dungeons that I had to reset manually to roll a vadagar bear/stag. And they spawned during the day just fine, too.

[drowsy coral]

either that or there won't be many people that stick around for the long term

[lavish carbon]

Rough. I hope it works better for you today. Thought they’d fixed the bug good

[analog crag]

Envoys you have been asked to stay on topic, please discuss fast travel not Vadagar farming strategy or bugs

[lavish carbon]

Ok ok

[bronze imp]

Some of it has been, other posts have not. This was a reminder to EVERYONE in the thread to focus on the idea, concept, and pros/cons, as posts were becoming less constructive as the thread went on.

[drowsy coral]

that one doesn't jsut give crypt and glades, stag, benneret and specailly undercity are common outcomes too dude, i've tried multiple northern (25+ areas) trees to try and find some new escamotage, and most of them mostly just spawn dungeons, and have increased range on what/wher eit spawns to include more dungeons and whatnot, they wanted diversity which is good but for whatever reason alot of them are mostly just damn dungeon T_T and the awful lot of walking they require

[high kraken]

+1

If I forget to exit the dungeon through the entrance, and get TP to the middle. I exit the game and come back the next day 🙃

I don’t think Fast Travel is the main problem, those dungeon exits are

[analog crag]

Now on that topic, I would quite like an option to choose a dungeon exit, to give an alternative to tree teleport

[drowsy coral]

i'm gonna try it in a bit just out of curiosity again though just to make sure i need to find a fix to t3 tales being suck long chores right now so i'm willing to do anything XD

[analog crag]

Envoy again, please stay on the topic of Fast travel

[analog crag]

https://discord.com/channels/998758139405029478/1443539390432411718

[grizzled stratus]

i think you all overestimate the need for free fast travel tbh. it's a convenience, not a necessity. and i'm fine with it being a convenience that you have to earn and manage wisely otherwise you temporarily lose access to that convenience (run out of seeds), or have to rely on other players to help you (taxis).

i don't doubt that there will be people who quit over the idea that they can't fast travel whenever / however they want, but i don't think that should matter more than how the devs want us to engage with the game.

i do agree that the dungeon exits get kind of silly, but i think that's a separate issue to the one presented here and would probably warrant a separate feedback thread.

[drowsy coral]

t3 tale is on topic, it's alot of walking, people are not happy about that, how's it not on topic with fast traveling XD

[analog crag]

Bugged tales and farming strategies for tales are not the same topic as fast travel

[edgy atlas]

I think talking about the pain points of limited fast travel is totally on topic.

[pale bison]

The thing is, is that the convenience will become an necessity, especially when the game starts to get bigger and they start adding bigger loot tables with more diversity and fragments of weapons and armour

[drowsy coral]

depends on the dungeon, glades you can die/use tp or walk, undercity you either die/tp or walk (gl with all the walking) but if you die in the crypt you get sent to the exit regardless, forcing you to, IF you want to tale farm in a specific area (for more rep mostly) to walk back to the north (this is how it's going right now atleast) a free travel here would somewhat fix the dungeon exit dilemma we have going here, this is why people are also complaining about the new t3 system, because of all the walking time it takes, and many like mine, just end up quitting out of frustration because they don't have a seed and/or don't wanna walk back to the north again

this is why the t3 tale is a valid discussion for fast travel ain't it?

[pale bison]

Yes it is

[grizzled stratus]

that convenience will never become a necessity, i'm sure DE will make sure there's a valid path from point A to point B that doesn't require using the world tree fast travel system. and in the worst case scenario, you can always ask another player for help.

[pale bison]

If my T3 or any tale gets bugged, that means I have to run away far enough for it to get abandoned or travel back to a tree to abandon the tale if I could fast travel for free, I could do it and restart the tale without the headache of having to simply run away or walking all the way back to a tree just to abandoned said tale

[drowsy coral]

so imagine doing 11 north east(ish) t3 tales to rep cap, and getting mostly dungeons, and using the appropriate exit which sends you to narnia in the south, with 3 seeds or 6 over a day, how is one gonna enjoy doing this daily with all the walking included (and not counting the walking in the dungeon which also questionable) how does this make for a scenario where fast traveling for free or a better traveling system, shouldn't be in place?

[grizzled stratus]

this just means that the dungeon exit system needs to be rethought, not that we need to give fast travel freely to everyone. giving everyone fast travel just bypasses the problem, it doesn't solve it.

[drowsy coral]

that to, although we also have to wait out the tale failing in this scenario, another fix here tbh could be to just have a button to auto concede tales, but that's another topic entirely

[drowsy coral]

yes, but it also shows a fondamental flaw about walking in general

even IF the exit was properly placed you'd still be spending most of your time in a dungeon walking or outside of the dungeon walking to and from the tree

for most of your time doing the tales

this was true in the past, it's true now, and will be true even if they fix the dungeon exit

[grizzled stratus]

uh.. no it doesn't? it shows that people can be impatient and want the fastest route to the thing they want. which is normal, people can be impatent and we often do want to find the fastest available route to the thing we want.

[drowsy coral]

do this enough during your day and perhaps everyday given the grindy entity of syndicate rep farming and can you see how somebody would get bored of all the walking, and would wish to "have the option" for a better travel option?

rather than being forced to walk?

[drowsy coral]

no we want a quality of life, instead of spending most of our playtime doing one thing, walking

it's not impatience, it's not wantingto find the fastest route, it's getting bored of the ambience and walking through being forced to experience it for most of our gameplay, i don't mind the world ambience, i don't mind walking, i do mind them when they are almost entirely the ONLY experience

which is again why, people ASk for the option to fast travel, whoever still had to explore, will do so, whoever prefers to walk, will do so,however you can't pretend that we ALL have to do so at all times/most of the times

we just clearly gave examples of how we can easily burn the 3-6 seeds within honestly even just 10-15 mins, so the seeds aren't enough clearly, and potentially as the op suggested , AS content comes out, even the mount might not be enough, bigger areas, more areas more points of interest

[cunning steeple]

if theres no fast travel i offer let the envoys have dmg stack on their feet allowing them to go into frenzy mode and 1 hit KO anything . because with all the walking our legs should be the strongest in midrath.( on a serious note no point arguing. if DE doesnt want to give us better fast travel options and people leave because the game is boring, thats on them)

[pale bison]

Well said

[drowsy coral]

unfortunatly true, but hopefully some critique can help with that

[native heron]

+1 I am tired of running across the map for things when I am not in cogah

[tiny knot]

If the game is not about instant/delayed gratification, then the journey should be more meaningful and not push me towards repeating the same boss 40-50 times not to even gain the whole set of gear it drops.

The travel was accompanied by me closing out random objectives with relevant rewards - sure. Something like a bunch of randomized fog of war, where Sinecure are trying to assault Midrath forests, led by a boss or two. Not 10-15 points where bosses constantly spawn and do not give you their drops because RNG. Even if the world is beautiful, I would've seen it 40 times over by the moment where I could have even 80% of gear crafted (which is the main form of progression besides quests with unlocks).

Honestly, gaining the seeds through randomized but purposeful exploration might be the best option - push the player to do stuff in distant locations on the regular to create a smoother transition with the daily grind (which SF inherited from WF for some godforsaken reason).

[fiery sequoia]

The issue, is there's nothing to explore. Find dungeon entrance? Who cares, no rewards. Find a sinecure camp? Who cares, no rewards. The ONLY rewards in the game now are from faction tales (and Agari). Most of the rewards used to be from dungeons and exploration.

[bronze imp]

Agreed, moving rewards back to discoverables in the world would be a very solid change imo.

[fiery sequoia]

In a game like Guild Wars 2, exploration is how players found events and rewards. In P13, rewards are heavily tied to teleporting to tree, get quest, finish quest, repeat. The world has no rewards for exploration and dungeons lost all rewards (they went to faction rep).

[rigid coyote]

I don't know man, I just want an autorun key, that's all I ask

[pale bison]

All in all at the end of the day just make it free or people will just continue to abuse taxi system until that becomes annoying because dont get me started on the invite bug where you have to manually type someones name

[languid plover]

I kinda would just prefer a seed cost to teleport to a tree. But tree to tree teleportation being free. Something similar to how ESO does teleportation.

Or at leaaast win the new votive system buff the number of seeds we can earn per daily login.
Let's buff it to 5 seeds per day instead of 3.

[pale bison]

Just logged on, went to get my seeds got 3. went back into alca wevetseeds says 0. wtf

[drowsy coral]

i still think there should be no limit to how we can tp around (specially because lets be honest even teleporting to a tree is a limitation into itself, we'll still have to walk from there to wherever we'r moving, but this would be a improvement over what we have right now IF it meant we could get ALOT and i mean ALOT more seeds, still wouldn't fix a thing long term because our main activity in the game would still be walking around alot, and now with needing to farm seeds it would be a mix of walking around and doing events we probably don't need just because we want/need seeds, which is to say it would also potentially be a awful fix if the drops for the seeds were awful because it would be a "trap"

[drowsy coral]

you'd still be stuck running i know a few games have this system but then seriously it would literally just be you stuck there at your screen waiting to get there...

[ivory quarry]

🤓 "erm actually what would be the point of them adding all this exploration if you're gonna just fast travel and skip over it all" my brother, all this game is rn is grind faction tales and B lining from obj to tree, you get the fast travel AFTER youve already explored most of the map in the first place, people arent trying to spend 1 hour of their 1.5 hour faction grind running aroud. currently thats what the grind is, ESPECIALLY after these virtue changes

[wispy pulsar]

Free fast travel seems only fair when you consider you can use other players to fast travel for free by asking in a chat, and also there are people with duped seeds that can basically spam them to no end.

I don't think fast travel kills exploration at all for those who are actually interested in exploring. It isn't even that different people are or aren't interested in exploration, more so the context. Sometimes you're just aimlessly walking killing mobs for fun - sometimes you're grinding something in particular like a boss or an event or a tale and it just feels like you waste a lot of time running back to the same spot to start a new one.
The only way fast travel becomes an issue is when you can fast travel to literally any point on the map. Then it completely replaces walking to a destination and makes the world feel disconnected.

The function fast travel serves in it's current state turning a 5 minute walk into a 1 minute one is not harmful to this game's experience whatsoever.

[languid plover]

Unfortunately, as of currently Wevetseeds are ultra bugged right now. Some folks get 1 seed, some get 3, some get none, seen some reporting like 10/20 or even showing over 333 total.

The cap is supposed to be 100 seeds.

[drowsy coral]

exactly and that's just tale, there's other grinds that suffer similar issues and as the game expands it'll just get worse and worse

[drowsy coral]

ye my cap is 33 for whatever reason i have a friend that... can't get any so i "help him" now and then when we'r playing together but.. hes really not having it right now

[pale bison]

if they are that bugged then clearly they need to be worked on or removed entirely and just make it free. what was the point of unlocking world tree? just for the sake of exploring the map with only a single reward of a spear that almost no one uses because its trash. like common when i first started playing and unlocked the trees i thought id be able to fast travel as an award for unlocking the map. Sadly i was mistaking lol. There's is absolutely no need to restrict players from a free fast travel, people argue and say there is but then in game are the same ones asking for a taxi, i don't get it. if they are so bugged and there has yet to be a mention of them fixing the issue then just remove it and make it free, its a headache always running around.

perfect example from someone who posted this. How can you justify seeds if this what people are getting. this is a perfect example of why they should just make it free. Because this person and many others like this are getting free fast travel because of a bug. make it make sense.

[drowsy coral]

the point of the tree was to show the map around the seed teleporting to them happened later after pressure for some better traversal i belive

[pale bison]

another one

[tidal scarab]

it being bugged is not the best argument to make it free. we are in pre-alpha, bugs are a part of it. also, starting by making it free will just lead to future problems when they decide to restrict it. think of the reaction to the prism level. there'd be no point to having a world if you just wanna treat the map like the orbiter.

[pale bison]

How you still have to run to objectives

and its not forced you can fast travel or not

nah dude it wouldnt be anything like the prisms i think most people in game would love a free fast travel honestly. like i said previously the most common in game message is someone looking for a taxi.... just goes to show you alot

[eager pike]

It's hyperbole to say 'most' and 'majority' because you can't say for sure, all you can go off of is who is agreed and disagreed. The same argument about fast travel can be made in the opposite; you have a choice whether to teleport or walk, you're just paying the price for it.

[pale bison]

sayless ill start taking polls in game asking players from recruiting and region and ill start posting results in this chat no problem.

ill advocate for this until DE does something about it

[tidal scarab]

more games have costs to fast travel than not also. we're not doing missions from a camp like in MH, orbiter like in wf.

also a poll would also show us many people in favor of having no crafting resources/times on our weapons and pacts, doesn't mean that's a good game design direction

[pale bison]

Here look this is my screenshot and many other agreed in game chat

[languid plover]

This is just an example of how buggy Pre-Alpha can be. Alot of the time in Pre-Alpha, which most of the time they are not public, but in Pre-Alpha it's ship it first and patch the bug later.

We all agreed to this when we chose to participate. This game ain't in its proper alpha or even beta phase yet.

[drowsy coral]

why would they decide as the content expands to restrict movement? XD what the heck? why would anybody wanna spend 10 hours walking from one world to another just to do one quest?

[eager pike]

Why would they bother adding in a limited fast travel system if they were just going to inevitably cave just because some people didn't like it? I believe the developers have their own intentions for what they want to do in regards to traversal.

[tidal scarab]

i was more referring to a point somewhere where it was basically said that just cuz it's bugged now, it should be free now. which wouldn't work in the long run.

[grand fossil]

What if I told you they previously said they wouldn't do fast travel before mounts

[pale bison]

^^^

[tidal scarab]

in any case, fast travel being free does more damage than just "well it saves me time". since location will matter when it comes to farming, travel becomes a part of how easy it is to farm, and supports more player trade too

[pale bison]

and people complained and now look

[eager pike]

That's not the point I'm making. If their intentions were to always cave because some people didn't like it they would have never made it restricted in the first place.

[drowsy coral]

yes we can say for sure go read recruitment chat what are you ona bout?

[grand fossil]

They're listening to what people are asking for is the point

[pale bison]

thats the point of feedback in a pre-alpha to make changes

[grand fossil]

So if enough people ask for free fast travel they might do it, with caveats obviously

[tidal scarab]

the caveat is the 100 seed limit, with seed respawn

it's just not 'enough'

[pale bison]

not when its locked behind a 12 hour waiting period

[drowsy coral]

having the option for fast travel, the OPTIOn does damage how exactly?what is this argument?

[eager pike]

This is a circular arguement. All in all I don't agree, -1, etc.

[tidal scarab]

case in point on that

[drowsy coral]

they absolutely do, but they are caving that's why they introduced the seed, because this is a constant discussion means there's a problem with it

[pale bison]

one way or another it will happen they will face to much back lash if something is done and more so when this game grows in popularity

[pale bison]

just read this guys comment. same thing will happen if they dont act on something

[languid plover]

I still think the ESO approach is the best middle ground. Seeds for fast travel by Map, and walking up to the tree should let you fast travel for free.

[drowsy coral]

disagree, i don't think limiting is a good option, those that want to should be able to move faster, those that stll NEED to take in the scenery should be exploring, those that enjoy it should do as they please but it doesn't mean that any of those, should determine the reasoning for limiting everybody's mobility options

[obtuse surge]

+1 for tree to tree free fast travel. Especially since they have only said ‘this year ‘ for mounts. There are lots of fairly grindy systems in this game already.

I’ve walked by the same spots countless times and after a certain point it just feels like a punishment.

[drowsy coral]

explore the first time, you HAVE to be walking around, explore the 10th+ time you NEED the option to be able to get there fast OR burnout could happen because the immersion can last only so long while walking the same in game road over and over again for more aged players

[analog crest]

I feel like the first time through the map exploring on foot is fine. Once we get our mount I am sure that travel will be much better without free fast travel.

[pale bison]

Agreed but fast travel to an enclave should made available anywhere you are at least

[barren nest]

I agree so much

[drowsy coral]

If it wasn't for these grindy systems that want you costantly all over the place, i wouldn't even be discussing traveling to begin with, but i can only imagine in a few years with more maps, IF the mobility stays the same WITH even just mounts, how many people would get burned out by all the walking

[languid plover]

It wouldn't be limiting it. It'd be expanding the current system and keeping a use for the seeds. Which are currently a reward and factored into the narrative.

It's a middle ground approach.

You can still use seeds to travel when you are not near a tree, but if you'd rather not spend, you can run to the nearest tree. Its a win from both perspectives.

[obtuse surge]

I can’t really project that far since there are so many systems they could add in that time that could make exploration better.

[drowsy coral]

they were added after feedback (they didn't wanna add them they jus twanted mounts after a bit), they were "sneaked in" not factored into the narrative

[languid plover]

It's currently part of the reward. And they are very much part of the Waste Bear story

[drowsy coral]

well those systems would mean the addition of extra traveling agents, if they were automated, like autowalking, it'd still be you just staring at a screen, if you'd have to jump from lets say plane to plane or something like that it's still be a chore for those seasoned players having to deal with all instead of just 1 click and done

[obtuse surge]

That would make sense.

[drowsy coral]

yes because they've been made INTo it after the feedback about travel being necessary in the game

it wasn't a organic and seemless introduction like you want to make it sound for whatever reason maple

we gave the input to make it happen they didn't want it to happen initially

[barren nest]

What if we only did free fast travel until the mounts came out, we havent really had a day set for mounts and im not against people need to explore however i do believe that as said, having to spend 20 minutes traveling north and west is burning me out of the game so fast and it gets tiresome when quests stretch so far over such a huge map. If there was a way to cut down travel time like the mounts which are upcoming without a set day, people aren't going to particularly have the patience to wait around for mounts "this year" yk? Its going to burn out a LOT of players😅

[drowsy coral]

just thinking about what we do right now to "cheese our way" to enclaves makes me not wanna go to them at the moment XD either music box cheese or taxi asking brrrr

[bronze imp]

Likely that would work out poorly, it's a cat that cannot be easily put back in the bag once it's loose.

[pale bison]

@drowsy coral is right they didnt even want fast travel to being with but community start complaining so they said after mounts come out and then got back lash on that and gave us wevetseeds. Should of just made it free from the get go and stop delaying the inevitable honestly

[drowsy coral]

that could fix it for now but then we'd still need to see just how much travel time we'd spend mounting vs actually playing

could be a momentary fix

[pale bison]

Tree to tree fast travel and fast travel to enclave from where ever. How will that effect the game you still need to run to a tree or objective anyways

[obtuse surge]

I mean we both want an improvement in fast travel. I’m mostly going for what I think DE would be more likely to give. Given that even getting the wevetseeds required consistent threads before they added it in.

Other games I’ve played that have had free checkpoint to checkpoint fast travel and good traversal methods have been fine.

So I’m taking the approach of one step at a time for feedback, since I don’t know how the game will feel in the future with new systems introduced.

[drowsy coral]

that said, i'd still hate every moment of walking from a tree to the tales and in dungeons, given that's most of the time spent doing tales anyway (walking), which goes to show that traversal in general has been handled honestly poorly for players that constantly repeat said content

[pale bison]

Mounts will only be a temporary fix until we are back to this topic

[drowsy coral]

well de didn't want to give anything to begin with though lets remember that XD i can see the argument though that they didn't want to give anything "because" they wanted us to walk to "game test" for us, i hate the argument because it means that we are guinea pigs (we are) and i hope it's just that tbh

[pale bison]

How is making the game more convenient for players ever a bad thing

Especially for those who cant afford to grind all the time and running takes up much of their grind

[drowsy coral]

wait btw,

do we know if mounts will work in dungeons?

no right?

[pale bison]

Probably not

[drowsy coral]

it'd be silly tbh but some procedually generated dungeons (talking specially about you undercity) are really a pain in the ass when it comes to how LOOONG they take to walk through

[pale bison]

Honestly ive gotten lost so many times lol could just be me though

[drowsy coral]

one thing to say though is that ye, tp right on top of a farm isn't the solution either, that would mean people aren't walking at all all together, that's not what we are advocating, we are advocating for a fair choice of mobility for everybody not ridiculous teleport on top of target

i hope XD

[obtuse surge]

Even with mounts I imagine that they are going to end up caving on tree to tree fast point travel eventually. The vast majority of people who play RPGs are used to at least that type of system.

I’d say better to implement these things earlier before people get burnt out.

[drowsy coral]

it's procedually generated, can't really tell the way tbh

[drowsy coral]

absolutely true

[bronze imp]

Personally very much hope they don't, but as has been established, that's just my opinion, same as everybody else's here.

[drowsy coral]

well, what's the damage in having the option then, those that want to walk will talk, those that want to tp can tp, i'm still waiting for a reasonable explanation as to why teleporting around without a limit would be detrimental to one's gameplay

[bronze imp]

I find myself optimizing the fun out of the game when given the chance to, and I don't think that's very healthy for the game if others are doing the same.

[drowsy coral]

many have said what you said naito but i haven't seen a sound argument yet besides the: well it's this way because we'll have mounts eventually and: well it's this way so that we are forced to "walk" into bugs so that we can report it to them because we are testing to them

and neither is really a good reason now is it?

[bronze imp]

That depends on one's point of view

[drowsy coral]

not in the long term, so why not prepare for the long haul

it doesn't damage anybody

[drowsy coral]

good, you can self-limit yourself, why do youw ant to self limit others for your own personal agenda?

you can walk, why do i have to walk too forcibly?

[pale bison]

How is making something convenient for players ever a bad thing once they've discovered all the trees

[bronze imp]

The end point of all this is: it isn't a debate. It's feedback. Nobody can "win" a feedback thread. We all have our own opinions, reasons, and feelings, and they are all equally valid.

[drowsy coral]

why not have options for different types of players?

[bronze imp]

I don't think it would be healthy for the game. I've expressed my opinion.

[drowsy coral]

you haven't given a reasoning as to why

[bronze imp]

I don't feel a need to defend it from those whose opinions differ, the same I feel no need to heavy criticise your feelings on the matter. Because in the end, we're all here to express that opinion and feedback for the devs to consider.

[drowsy coral]

you just called our explainations "opinions" and said that you think it's not healthy without giving reasonings

[pale bison]

You say its not a debate but then offer a rebuttal and nobody is trying to win anything im simply standing by point of what should be done

[bronze imp]

I did so here

[drowsy coral]

if it's feedback, where's the constructive feedback here? objective NOT subjective feedback that is

i mean from you of course

[bronze imp]

The feedback I offer is: I think adding free fast travel will harm the game as players will optimise the fun out of wandering and discovering things. I do agree there is an issue with a lack of exploration incentive, but I don't feel this is the correct solution.

That is what it has always been.

[drowsy coral]

defending de's decision as you did initially, isn't gonna cut it, players are complaining, players are constantly asking for traversal options, something has to give

[bronze imp]

That's a fair opinion to have.

[pale bison]

Exactly

[bronze imp]

I disagree with it, but it's a fair one to have.

[pale bison]

DE wants feedback about issues. Well this is an issue and will continue to be one and in fact will just grow larger and larger until something is done

[bronze imp]

Correct. And I'm providing my feedback of disagreeing with this proposed solution, while agreeing with the root problem.

[drowsy coral]

you can still "optimize the fun of wnadering/discovering whilist having the traversal option, specially IF like right now it's locked behind finding the tree (by sdesign since they want you to first explore)

again you are trying to force your want for "walking around" into us, it's unfair why can't we have the option?

[bronze imp]

I'm not sure why I'm being pressured to defend a perspective that differs from yours. We don't need to agree.

[drowsy coral]

the feedback from you seems to be: I want to walk around, i like walking around so EVERYBODY most walk around like me, or i can't have fun?

so we either have fun your way, or nothing?

[bronze imp]

I'm not saying you guys are wrong to propose this, I'm saying I disagree with it.

I think adding it will provide an option that damages the experience for players.

[drowsy coral]

there that's progress

[bronze imp]

You're more than welcome to disagree with that.

[drowsy coral]

it wouldn't though

[bronze imp]

I never said otherwise

[drowsy coral]

people can just ignore it if it's there and they don't want it

besides

[bronze imp]

That's a perspective you can take, but again, I disagree.

[drowsy coral]

you CAN'T teleport, unless you already explored

[bronze imp]

Again, I'm not sure why I'm being asked to defend a subjective opinion.

[drowsy coral]

as i said you need to find the trees before being able to use them to begin with don't you?

[pale bison]

Nothing will get damaged people who have infinite seeds right now are literally saying it's better than running around and it doesn't damage any exploration aspect of the game. I literally asked someone this game and they replied with that so.

[drowsy coral]

we could argue about wanting some more thinkering around about exploration before unlocking traveling from/to a specific tree

[bronze imp]

I'm not trying to argue.

[drowsy coral]

but the form is there, we DO need to "explore" and walk there before we can access it

[bronze imp]

I gave my feedback, and then people pinged me to basically say "you're wrong", so I have been trying to clarify that I'm not trying to dismiss or shut down what you guys are saying.

I'm simply adding my voice and opinion to the feedback for DE to see and potentially consider.

[drowsy coral]

and IF you want to self-impose you are free to do so BUT, if there is NOT fast travel, or it's limited like now, then you do not have that option period, so why do that?

you are i just think it's not a objective take, but rather a self-imposing that you want to impose into others

[bronze imp]

Because when given the option to, I find myself playing in ways that differ from what I was doing before, and I find that playstyle to be damaging to my enjoyment of the game. I feel that this would apply to others, and would personally prefer the suggestion not be implemented.

I have never stated any of my stance to be objective.

[drowsy coral]

yes and you are free to play however you want, why most the rest of us be limited by how you want to do things?

[bronze imp]

It has always been an opinion.

[drowsy coral]

this is your personal enjoyment, us beying able to teleport doesn't take anything away from that, YOU imposing your style of play onto us, does however

[bronze imp]

I'm not saying you should or shouldn't be. I'm expressing my subjective response to the proposal.

[drowsy coral]

well we are looking into a objectivly good for the community feature here

[bronze imp]

Again, you're asking me to defend an opinion. That usually jsut comes down to "well, it's my opinion, and that's how I feel"

[drowsy coral]

we aren't looking for your or mys tyle of play ain't we?

[pale bison]

Why cant players have options and why are the said current options so restricted and limited i dont want more things to grind for and that being one of them a means of travel

[bronze imp]

I'm not sure why you guys are going for my throat on this. Why do I need to agree with your perspective on this?

[drowsy coral]

because this is constructive feedback, we need to argue to figure out what's the right thing for the community

[pale bison]

No one is going for your throat we are just stating opinions such as your self

[drowsy coral]

and again you are costantly talking about your own personal preference, we are talking community here not my or your way to approach the game

so not at your throat we arre discussing and, you don't need to agree, you need to reason through and find common grounds

[bronze imp]

You're more than welcome to, but this is feeling rather hostile, and I'm not really sure what you guys want from me.

[drowsy coral]

a subjective take, on a community matter isn't gonna cut it

[pale bison]

How am i being hostile

Im just stating a matter of opinion and ones of which i have asked others in game

[drowsy coral]

there's no hostility here, if you felt any that's not where we want to go, it's a feedback, lets stay on track we don't even need to discuss hostility it's off-topic

[pale bison]

Tree to tree fast travel and enclave fast travel from were ever how is this is game breaking

You still get to explore its not like you can just fast travel from wherever

Im trying to at least come to a middle ground but the travel should still be free theres no point in a 12 hour waiting window just to fast travel thats just redundant

[bronze imp]

I'm feeling like whenever I provide my perspective on the matter, I'm just being told "you're wrong", and given a list of reasons that are subjective, when again, my argument has always been that I feel there are better solutions to some of the problems identified. My intent from the start has been to provide my opinion and leave, but instead I'm basically being told that my feedback is unwelcome or wrong. To me, that comes across as rather hostile.

I feel like improving exploration motivation and adding repeatable discoveries would be more engaging as a solution.

And I worry that this solution would result in me not having fun in the game, because I will optimize my own actions to a point of no longer having the experience I am looking for.

I'm not trying to argue that this perspective applies to other people.

I'm simply saying how I feel this change would impact me.

And that is negatively.

[drowsy coral]

if it's subjective on a community matter, it can be seen as not relevant enough honestly, you can't pretend to force others to play how you want them to play, in this case, it's not helping the discussion to pretend that we all walk because the way you play you prefer walking

[bronze imp]

Is one voice the final decision maker? Probably not.

But I don't have any stats or data to say what will definitively happen for everyone.

I can only comment on the impact that changes have had on myself, and expand that to a concern as a specific change would apply to me.

[drowsy coral]

that wouldn't be a solution, it would be welcome, specailly for players like you i belive, (i'd love it too for sure, it'd be content after all) but when one is done exploring, and is going to that area for the 1000th time, why do they still have to be forced to walk to/from there?

[bronze imp]

I do worry there are others like me, that this would impact, but I can't say for certain.

[drowsy coral]

we are looking for a community fix, something that makes everybody happy, limiting us all isn't gonna make everybody happy and you can allways self-limit your mobility, nobody stops you from walking

[steel wasp]

-1 I think if we get the mounts later this year that gallop twice or 2.5 times faster than we can walk, then that will be perfectly sufficient for the short distances you have in the Tales.

[pale bison]

Okay look im not trying to be hostile or anything but you state an opinion and saying that something that changes travelling will ruin your experience thats why people are coming at you because your making the solution about yourself do you understand. You dont think that de adding prisms ruined peoples experience, ofc it did but people still adapt and play because they like the game. Add an opinion of free travel would be the same no?

[drowsy coral]

itwouldn't impact you or others like you though, because you wouldn't be limited in any way, you can allways walk...

[pale bison]

They wont be that fast guaranteed no offence

[drowsy coral]

maybe it'll be better for a time beying and for tales specifically, we'll know when mounts are here, but untill then? and what happens after when the map gets bigger AND there's bigger gaps to cover and MORE gaps to cover that the seeds can't cover potentially?

[drowsy coral]

we don't know that yet tbh, we'll need to see dude, maybe they'll fix the problem momentarily, or permanently (depending on future content but i doubt in the long run seeds will cover the vast distances we'll have to go through)

[bronze imp]

That's a fair approach to this, but again, I can only express my concerns. I can't support it with data, aside from my anecdotal experiences being expanded to a larger group, in much the same way you expand your frustration with being forced to a slower traversal method be assumed to a large group.

I do think there will be a negative impact of the change, one I have outlined, and that's most of my feedback on the matter.

All I have been looking for is for DE to have that perspective available in this thread so when they review it they can see those concerns.

[drowsy coral]

the negative impact doesn't affect you though, you can still walk... you can still self-restrain yourself...

[bronze imp]

Now, with that, I'll not be replying again, as this is going in circles and I've no interest in repeating myself further only to receive the exact same message again. It's what I wanted to avoid in the first place.

In the end, we simply disagree on the proposal. Hopefully everyone can be happy at leaving it at that.

[drowsy coral]

that's to say, there's no objective impact you are discussing off right now if the impact to you is that fast travel would limit your self-imposed exploration/walking, because you'd still be able to fully do that self-imposition with no restrains whatsoever

where as if we don't have fast travel, we simply lack fast travel and that's it, period

[pale bison]

Regardless what happens we need a more improved way of either fast travel or the means of obtaining seeds making them more available. This whole 1-3 seeds 12 hour gamble is ridiculous

[dense flume]

I would prefer less fast travel personally. My personal issues arise from how some mechanics in the game currently actively work against a “limited fast travel” setup. Needing to stay in one corner of the map to effectively level up factions feels bad, needing to go to the complete opposite end of the map to then interact with factions feels bad. I’d be more curious in more organic fixes to those issues than just making something tedious less so. I personally have the most fun in the game when I’m just strolling around through the whole zone.

[analog crag]

Envoys again a reminder to keep feedback constructive and free from hostility. Providing your perspective is welcome, demanding others defend theirs is not

[mossy snow]

a big +1

[zinc pecan]

-1 from me, dont want the game turning into super optimized grinder

[pale hatch]

+1 this game is a walking simulator = boring and not fun 35% combat, 65% traveling from point a to B especialy after i enter any kind of dungeon or traceback to the high lvl tree zone or farm all the boses on cogah, let's not forget about the NEW WALLS , just dont put a limit on it , trees are fairly spread, also some people have obtained quite a large number of seeds due some dupe bug so is not fair in the 1st place.
Let it be my choice whether i want to explore and enjoy the scenary or to farm and kill stuff, dont force it on me or others, i have the right to enjoy the game on my limited free time as well as others, please be respectfull towards that time.
Constructive Feedback: If you still want it limited make it like trades in warframe mr16 = 16 seeds per day (maybe more atenuated), and it also gives player insentive to farm new equipment and to lvl up the account.

[daring glade]

mods are you getting tired of these fast travel treads? come on be a little truthful

in all seriousness -1x 100000000000 .... if the map was bigger maybe but its not that big even with the walls and all the other bs people bring up want to fast travel play a different game if you feel a free game is taking to much of your time.... the devs say they dont want it and its so early into dev time that yes the map is empty but each update boom more stuff chill out wait for mounts and shut up. Ill take my time out for being disrespectful but this topic is overdone and its never anything new

[pale hatch]

DE has changed their mind before due to the player's feedback.

[pale hatch]

or you can choose not to abuse fast travel and enjoy the walk and immersion ?

[zinc pecan]

If it was a single player game sure, in an online game thats not how it works because then it becomes expectation. For example i join a grp and everyone tp to next boss they wont wait for me to walk there. DE repeatedly said that they dont want to invalidate open world with fast travel. Yes its currently a bit empty but the game is still in pre alpha and theres a ton of content still being added with every patch every 3 months or so.

[pale hatch]

Idk about you but this feels like a single player coop game.

[zinc pecan]

Because most grp and social features are not implemented yet, they are still working on core game, and virtue rework with last patch is a good example.

If you feel like the game is still not enough fleshed out nothing wrong with waiting for 2-3 more patches, i imagine it wont hit EA before end of 2026 at earliest, but very possibly sometime in 2027

[pale hatch]

you are talking about the very uncertain future (game changes fast especially in alpha ) unless you are a member of DE's game design team 🙂 JK. Please don't white knight them, they need constructive criticism/feedback in order for the game to evolve and yes you cannot satisfy 100% of the players all the time that's a given, but player love when you respect their free time.

[zinc pecan]

But you are trying to turn the game into something different. If you feel like having no fast travel is a deal breaker for you there are plenty of other games that have not only that but are generally player time friendly. Either way i am 99.9% sure they wont bend on this since they stressed it since the announcement.

[chrome wind]

-1 options to get seeds other than your dailys sound good, but unlimited fast travel is a bad idea 100%.

Its also not hard to save up and get double digits. Once I hit 15 I got to a point where I gain more then I spend in a session. If you are constantly finding yourself at 0 then maybe try not using them as much. Skill issue, imo

[pale hatch]

no no no, I am not turning anything into anything, I just provided my own subjective opinion on that matter, and you are so eager to send me away 🙂 I even provided a solution that would satisfy both sides i think "Constructive Feedback: If you still want it limited make it like trades in warframe mr16 = 16 seeds per day (maybe more atenuated ), and it also gives player insentive to lvl up the account"

[pale bison]

Its not a skill issue when the game only rewards you every 12 hours and you sometimes only get one. Sorry but i like using them to move around the map to get to certain places because i dont have all the time in the world to be running every where all the time. And your point contradicts it self okay so you save up so you have infinite fast travel, then ill ask you whats the difference in saving them just for that then it just being available.

On top of that they are absolutely bugged to the high heavens right now. Earlier today the game said i got 3 then went into game and had 0. So explain said skill issue.. nah bro game issue

[chrome wind]

The skill issue is not being able to play the game on foot, wanting to fast travel is not for the adventurous envoy.

Like I dont want to tell people there is a right way and a wrong way to play, but it really seems like some folk are spending all of their limited seeds as soon as they get them, a different option would be to log in every day even if to just grab them, and in a session always save at least one. So when you actually 'need' them you won't have to worry if the rng gave you 1 or 3.

The lack of skill is peoples inability to realize that saving seeds is beneficial. 90% of people complaining about fast travel have no self control and dont save seeds. Its a part of the game right now.

I truly understand why people want unlimited fast travel. I just completely disagree. I think some of the greatest games of all time have numerous restrictions, some are absolute things that waste your time, QoL fixes that could be easily fixed, but I still value the effort and I dont like to get things for free.

I like the current system as it limits the amount of fast travel while still allowing it to be possible. If you play for an hour every day its a solid amount of fast travel, if you dont play all week and then want to binge, it doesnt feel great, which is why you should log in daily and save your seeds for rainy days and long sessions. I have like 50+ seeds right now, i earned them with self discipline and im set.

[pale bison]

You cant make this argument and say i save them up to have unlimited fast travel makes zero sense but okay you do you bro

[chrome wind]

I totally can, hobo

[drowsy coral]

you can keep walking then but people don't have to play the game for what it currently is aka a walking simulation just because you think that not beying able to teleport makes it less optimized