#The Erstroot in The Organ rewards is just to slow down player's farm of new content

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

soft rapids
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I did 4 Organs and all I've got was The Erstroot parts.

DE has been following this strategy for a long time now putting 5k credits and 500 endo in new content rewards in Warframe to slow down people. I love DE but this design needs to go because it feels very dirty.

And I hope that Wazzard armor and The Erstroot are temporal rewards in The Organ so the people will have purpose to play new mode. Because they should drop from Wraight of Wastes obviously. The Organ should reward us with some Ode weapons and Armor.

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The Erstroot in The Organ rewards is just to slow down player's farm of new content

brazen cedar
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+1

languid flame
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I wouldnt mind it as much if we could just restart the organ event at a world tree but the 3 hour limit makes it unbearable.
I don't like when it's faster to make the money to buy the thing instead of farming it, and it's pretty extreme in this case, i can't afford to log every 3 hours for an abyssal drop rate.
And god knows I like the Organ event, it's cool, has an amazing music, not too long to do. It's great. But it doesn't feel rewarding when all i got since release are erstroot and clivers.

I know it's to avoid powerfarming through content but it's just frustrating.

ruby falcon
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+1

wide halo
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+1

marsh tree
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+1

noble vigil
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+1

slate lodge
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+1

round knoll
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+1 the erstroot already has a place you can farm it pretty quickly. Not need to clog up the organ loot table

kind flint
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+1 it has no business being in the organ's loot pool

errant canyon
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This happened too many times for it to be an accident. Every single Preludes has had a weapon or two with abhorrent drop rates

Makes it feel like they are pushing the boundary and how bad they can make a grind

jagged iris
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+1, I have very little motivation to do the Organ thing currently, as i don't want to grind for 50 hours for the new armor set.

languid siren
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Envoys, I agree that the drop tables for the Organ need adjusting but can we leave the tinfoil hats behind? The devs want to make a good video game, drop rates not being perfect out of the gate is part of the evolution of the game. There's no need for conspiracy theories about it being a deliberate attempt to slow down grind

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Like what's the thought here, Steve is sat in his office going "This time I'll get away with making the gamers hate my game!" and then he sees a post going "Drop rates are too low" and goes "CURSES, FOILED AGAIN BY THOSE DASTARDLY ENVOYS"

kind flint
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imo it's not about conspiracy theories but noticing a pattern, i too have noticed this pattern, but I'll agree that we shouldn't make assumptions just yet

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Well if u want a logical explanation then player retention is one

languid siren
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The pattern you notice is "When drop rates need buffing people complain about it" you did not see this during Thawtide because Thawtide generally had pretty good drop rates, same for the Founders update, etc...

kind flint
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So we just forgot about pickpocket?

languid siren
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Sirin's pickpocket is a separate issue, ,the drop rates for Thawtide were fine without pickpocket, I'd know, I deliberately did not use that method.

Point is, feedback on drop rates is absolutely welcome, but leave the "And it's because they're trying to get away with making the game bad" behind

kind flint
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Also factor in the time it takes to clear the organ and the cooldown

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Variables not present during Thawtide

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Multiple camps multiple enemies the ability to relog farm

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All made the farm much faster

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I get your point but listen

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It gets to a point

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The more ppl see it, they start to agree on it

languid siren
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Yes which is why I'm saying please stop it

kind flint
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And no matter how much u warn they'll still come to that conclusion

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Sure

lyric remnant
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I don't think they're doing this to make the game bad, it's just well known that once a player gets all the rewards from a piece of content they stop doing it. So they pad the drop tables to keep people grinding/maintain player retention.

The problem is this feels bad. A better solution would be to add evergreen rewards to the drop tables, but I don't think there's enough "stuff" in the game yet for that to be all that valuable. Kinda a rock and a hard place here

kind flint
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This sums some of the points up

dim plume
supple cobalt
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I think the real issue is: if you want earstroot there is an easier and faster way to get it. Right now, it feels strange to come from the Organ because of that. The Organ really should have thibgs that don't have many drop locations like Odiac. So far, I have gotten the new dual blades crafted (can't use them because prism system) and 1 fragment for the new helmet. Again, instead of taking an item that is super common from the enemy that drops it, why not give some others another farm location that don't have a frequent drop rate?

kind flint
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Honestly you saved me the effort, cause i wanted to write out a feedback about the whole grinding aspect

languid siren
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Again, absolutely agreed that the drop tables need a look for The Organ, that feedback is great
The "And I reckon it's because they want to make the grind as bad as they can" part is the one that I'd prefer people left off.

dim plume
languid siren
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Especially because drop table adjustments have been made consistently based on feedback, not much logic in DE secretly wanting to make the grind bad and then making it good when people point out the items that need a boost

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The devs are not out to get you, it just takes some adjusting to get drop rates in a good place

lyric remnant
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I think the conversation has moved away from "the devs want to make the game bad". I don't think any of us really believe that, but there is a definite frustration of seeing repeated mistakes

radiant lava
# languid siren Especially because drop table adjustments have been made consistently based on f...

That is a standard of DE though, i've played warframe for over 10 years and every update i can remember releases with low drop rates and overly bloated with stuff you don't need and the a month later they will come back to it and make it 10 times easier. I personally don't have an issue with it because thats just the way they do it, always have and probably always will, they either time lock content behind daily caps or behind super low drop rates to increase the time it takes people to finish the update, they 100million % do this intentionally and knowingly and trying to say they don't is just silly.

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And to be clear i dont think that makes the game bad, or that the devs want to make the game bad, its just how they make games, it is what it is

languid siren
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Being an active Warframe player, I don't think that's true at all tbh. Most if not all new content now has pity systems and can be very easily farmed

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Are there things in the drop table I don't need? Sure, a 500 Endo drop is nothing to me, my account is 10 years old and I have like 300K just sitting there, but that doesn't make a quick 500 Endo a bad drop

radiant lava
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they exist as "you got nothing" reward with actually giveing you nothing that alot of game do, you arent supposed to get the drop you want everytime and farm a new frame in 4 runs, i really hate the constnt credit and endo moaning that happens every update

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but even with pity systems, they make it much longer than it has to be, and usually you end up buying the new stuff with the pity currency becuase the actual drop rate is so low to compensate you never actually get it

dim plume
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I think another factor in warframe's favor aside from pity systems is that the grind produces resources for other things so it always feel like you're getting something of value even if you don't get what you originally wanted

radiant lava
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i dont think i have fully gotten anything you can buy with pity before i could buy it since they started doing that

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Personally i think whats happened with the organ is that since you can do 9runs every 3hours they have intentionally made the drop rates low to compensate for how often you can do it, but they've overshot it

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So they've made the rates bad knowingly but i dont think they intended to make it so low people hate the game, thats just ridiculous, and im sure they will adjust it

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people forget that DE themselves play they game, so they will feel the same strain the players do when things like this happen

kind flint
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I agree that it happens in Warframe aswell, a personal experience and example is the new tauron strikes, i actually stopped farming the last 2 because of how long, mind numbing and repetitive the content is

jagged iris
exotic aspen
# languid siren The devs are not out to get you, it just takes some adjusting to get drop rates ...

I mean it makes sense feedback wise to be doing it, its not that far fetched of a theory. Was the same thing with the world boss drops and the runes wasn't it don't remember completely. Not really complaining since I see the need for it but it is a pattern at this point to have bad drops for a while then patch it when feedback has been rolling in for a while. Can't say its by design but its a recurring thing for sure.

round knoll
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I have to come back and say that the clivers are also too represented in the loot table.

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I only have 2 frags for the wizard gear out of at least 10 organ operations

dapper lily
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I get that the drop rate needs adjustment my question would be... Why is Erstroot being looted in the Organs to begin with? I have done more than 25 organs already, I literally got 2 armor pieces, 6 Clivers and the rest are Erstroot pieces... I already have like 35 (Wraith of Wastes already gave me a bunch, it's a boss you can do every 30 mins...). You take Erstroot from the drop table and it would be a lot more consistent, same as Mendicant King only had his armor in the beginning and they didn't put random loot on him, now it also has Purity, which makes sense, since it's not shared loot either.

mint coral
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Placeholder most likely

dapper lily
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Well, that placeholder in my experience has like 75% drop rate (or even more) which doesn't make sense at all 🙁

mint coral
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Sure, that could easily be a bug or other error weighting it in favor of erstroot too.

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But like I would not be surprised to see neither the outfit nor erstroot drop from organs in "release."

woeful marsh
languid siren
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No but I was responding to someone talking about Warframe

woeful marsh
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AvakotOkay, I didn't read all the comments

dapper lily
dapper lily
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Does Cogah improve the drop rate for the armor or is it just fake info some users give in game chat? I guess the latter, right? xD

fierce schooner
worthy moss
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Hopefully this is fixed soon. I'ven done over 90 runs and still only have 1 fragment for each armor piece, but over 60 Erstroot fragments and nearly 30 Clivers.

languid siren
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Also I have like half the robes and a third of the pants after maybe 20-ish Organs so skill issue 🤷‍♂️ (joking, this is a joke)

woeful marsh
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0/9 3/9 0/9 1/9

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About 1/9 drop rate

dapper lily
livid field
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+1 thousand times!

median raven
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+1 I think DE is well aware of that. Maybe it's to get more data on the Organ. Otherwise everyone will get the armor and stop doing it since it doesn't give anything else.

round knoll
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I swear the Erstroot is over represented. I did all 3 organs and only got estroot frags

inland shoal
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I think the point is being missed here: game design is full of intent. They have been making games for decades at this point. They know exactly what they are doing with the abysmal drop rates. They did not make it bad unintentionally. It was not a mistake. Now what was the intent, we can only guess (looks at the cash shop).

First of all, it likely is to get data on the organ. People will bash their head against it for an exorbitant amount of time and generate all the data they need to improve on it.

Second, they need to sell some stuff. Look at Dewelion. How many people actually got it by farming it naturally? The Wazzard set is Dewelion 2.0.

Retention, maybe? That’s a stretch. Burnout will kick in faster with such odds. If people log in every day, they have something else bringing them back.

I am certain that both of the rare drops I’ve mentioned will be moved to a more appropriate place when it is convenient for the devs. Just please, don’t say that it’s a “mistake” or it’s “secretly” doing something. Game design is very calculated. They are not trying to hide anything.

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As for me, I’m simply not going to even bother with the organ until it drops something useful. It is a fun little game mode, I enjoy it, but it’s not very rewarding as is.

kind flint
round knoll
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Yeah

inland shoal
calm jungle
ruby falcon
languid siren
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It's pre-alpha, you will need to read patch notes to keep up. Also every Prelude has an in-game message describing changes in broad terms

flint grove
flint grove
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Howl i'm sorry, but you taking "pointless rewards in the drop table" as a conspiracy theory about the devs being "evil" is a bit out of touch.

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First, because the drops are not there by default, they were put there intentionally (unless they cloned the event that gave them and forgot to remove it. And even then starting from the wraith of wastes and getting to the organ is a bit far fetched)

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Second, and most important, because this is common practice. Not in "common practice for DE", common practice for looter games in general.

You take old stuff and put it inside the drop table for a new activity to make the new stuff rarer. This is meant to make new stuff more valuable and new content last longer

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And that's not evil, nor does it make the game worse generally, it's just a way to make new content "last longer"

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The main problem here is that, while they wanted to avoid having dead drops by having prisms on the table, they seem okay with having dead drops in the form of fragments for stuff you've already built

buoyant cipher
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I don't really see an issue here. Of course Devs want to design things in a way that will keep people farming. It's been out a week. I don't expect to be able to get all the pieces that quickly. I've done 1 or 2 runs a day most days and got about 50% of the fragments I need. I don't think that's too bad.

I've had worse luck with the T3 tale drops. But again they will come with time.

I don't understand the expectations of being able to get everything immediately in a game where the only content really is farming for drops. Once you've got it what is there to do?

languid siren
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It's fine to have less desireable drops in a drop table. As long as a balance is struck where getting the things you want isn't too grindy or frustrating. Right now that balance for the Organ is skewed to be more frustrating than rewarding.

The only thing I'm pushing back on is that the current drop chance is a deliberate choice to make the content "unfair" to "test the limits" or slow down progression rather than just a brand new event needing balancing passes to find the right ratio

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To be blunt, I find it far more likely that they tested a certain % drop rate, thought "Yeah this seems fair" and now wider testing is showing that they were a bit too conservative with those % drop rates.

Rather than knowingly making it unfair to get away with something for some vaguely nefarious reason

flint grove
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Cause whatever drop chance we have now could be on point if we could do it whenever, but having to wait 3 hours makes it unfair

inland shoal
buoyant cipher
inland shoal
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Got 0 in 20 runs and stopped running it. Even dewelion seems less rare somehow

kind flint
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This is even more of an issue now that we established each piece drops in a specific organ

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Top to bottom

buoyant cipher
kind flint
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Yes

ruby falcon
inland shoal
kind flint
inland shoal
calm jungle
ruby falcon
calm jungle
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oh i see

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tyty