After P13, I kind of regret purchasing Fouders

[cobalt cape]

• Virtue Prisms are limiting. Prism distribution always seems to be off from what I want from a build even with pact and talisman points added in
• Pact points have been nerfed and now cost 10 pact points for only 4 virtue points. This is horrible
• Some prisms that almost seem required are locked behind the faction grind. This is horrible. I have to grind all 3 factions to level 4 just to distribute my points how I want? Horrible.
• Weapon virtue requirements are severely limiting my choice on what weapons I want to use. And now make weapons the main concern over pacts. It was kind of this way before in P12 with the huge CDR hit in Cogah (way too much IMO). But now it’s like pacts are secondary to weapons all the time because those are the deciding factor on what virtue you MUST use. This removes so many build crafting choices. Horrible
• Final kick in the pants. Orengall was nerfed again. Why?

Summary. I don’t like the new virtue system at all and wish it would revert to P12. And it feels like DE did a rug pull by enticing people to spend money in P12 and then completely change build crafting so that I honestly don’t want to play the game at this point

[rocky swallow]

Calm down, The game is in Experimental phase.

Give feedback n wait

[next escarp]

Absolute HATE this:

"Some prisms that almost seem required are locked behind the faction grind. This is horrible. I have to grind all 3 factions to level 4 just to distribute my points how I want? Horrible"

So i earn points from grinding, but i dont got the freedom to distribute and use the points as i want to - I need multiple other grinds to do that.

[blissful kraken]

Calling it a “rug pull” is a leap man

[red wave]

They’re literally giving feedback and they’re very understandably and justifiably annoyed with this update
It being experimental doesn’t automatically invalidate their feelings.

[stiff totem]

+1

[agile quest]

+1 prisms behind the most tedious part of the game is a big oof. for a game trying to not be warframe it is starting to just be fantasy warframe syndicate/MR grind.

[cobalt cape]

When money changes hands expectations change. I don’t want to support the game in P13 form but did in P12.

[wispy kettle]

Perhaps you could clarify what you expected then? DE has long been clear this is a pre-alpha game, that everything in it is subject to change, and that many systems are temporary placeholders or minimap versions, which is in line with what they've been doing thus far.

Your feelings and frustrations are valid, and I'd like to know where they're stemming from, as it sounds like there was a disconnect between your expectations and the expectations DE has been trying to set.

[rocky swallow]

So u love good change but want to jump out on bad change?

There are 2 fates for the game, It will become good or it will die but as it lives it will change (Baby steps)

We as a founders should express what we like n dislike n give the Devs time to respond We all don’t like this change specially how all the equipment relies on one Virtues prism system , I think most other changes are good, its just the current system everything depends on one Virtues alignment

I imagine the devs wanted something connected, opposite to WF modding but currently it doesn’t fly

[agile quest]

From my understanding of the post the feedback sounds like this. "I bought founder's based on p12 gameplay, I would not have bought it based on p13 gameplay." seems like solid and clear feedback to me.

[cobalt cape]

I realize the terms DE has set forth. I don’t want a refund, but that doesn’t change my feelings about the game in P13. Hard to change how I feel is all

[cobalt cape]

This

[wispy kettle]

Totally fair, and I definitely can understand feelings being big and complicated! We're now in a spot where DE is trying lots of scary big things, and I definitely can understand not liking a particular change at all. That being said, is there something you'd like to see change, specifically? We likely can't go back to p12, it had lots of issues the devs were trying to hammer out with this update, but we can look forward to an alternative or different path than the one currently on. What would you say that path should be?

[cobalt cape]

Give us a prism that allows full manual allocation and we can get multiples of it, remove all prisms from faction grind, remove weapon virtue requirements, and give us our full 10 virtue points from the pacts. Also unnerf Orengsll howl 😉

[wispy kettle]

I appreciate the clarity on that feedback, thanks!

[red wave]

I agree with everything but the total removal of virtue requirements, I think that specific thing needs to be changed to take into the virtues attuned to a weapon
So if a weapon needs a requirement of 21 but it’s attuned to spirit and courage then it takes the numbers from both, not just one
I think that might fix the pain point?

[cobalt cape]

Yeah. If it was 21 for any attunement it would be better, but I think they should add back blessed joinery changing virtue attunement then. Otherwise remove it completely

[trail bramble]

Actually you only need to farm 2 factions to rank 4 and 1 to rank 2 to get all prisms. The first rank 4 will give you all but 3. Id if you are kith you will get everything except the spirit/grace hybrid, the extreme spirit prism and the extreme grace prism

Once rep grind isnt terrible itll be fine.

But don't worry man, DE are listening we are still very very early on the game, make your opinions clear and they will see the feedback. Given most people share the same opinion that the new system with the reduction in extra points from the pact and poor scaling in health and cooldowns feels limiting, we will almost certainly see changes and improvements in time.

I think of they increase the scaling for cooldowns and health through spirit and courage, and add back to 6 pact virtues we lost then the new system will be a major improvement from before.