#General thoughts on the prisms and other announcements

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

rustic shadow
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This is going to be a mix of different thoughts, concerns and questions. Todays devstream was a bit vague about how certain things would be affected, and while a workshop post with more details was teased, it's not out yet, so I'm including questions as something to consider addressing within the workshop, unless you're planning to do a broader QA kind of thing.

So, first of all: I am a little concerned about Grace - specifically, whether its intended emphasis of stealth is going to mean that you're just going to be stuck with inferior armour and no advantages as soon as the game throws you into an encounter that doesn't let you choose your own angle of approach, for instance basically every last bossfight, especially ones like Bromius, which throw you straight into combat. If I can't use stealth, in a fight, what does Grace give me? Courage, from what I understand will scale the defenses of the strongest armour, Spirit will allow me to make more use of my spells, what does Grace do once stealth is broken?

Second: Since I won't be able to change the attunement of weapons anymore with blessed joineries, doesn't that just mean that some weapons are going to be stuck scaling with a stat that doesn't even compliment their playstyle? Like, if Courage is what you need if you want melee survivability, what's the point in a big unga-bunga greatsword like the Needleseye scaling off Grace instead?

Third: How is this going to affect early game flexibility? Shifting around a few points is easy enough to make sense of early on, but this change means that if you want to try another playstyle, you'll require another prism item. How's that going to work out? At the very least, the basic starter prisms should probably be available from the faction ships right from the get-go for a low price.

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Fourth: How does this interact with other sources of virtue points, such as pacts, pact upgrades, talismans, and quest choices? Anything change in that regard?

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Fifth: I'm gonna have to ask this. Will Prisms require limited inventory slots like weapons and pacts do? Does this tie into monetization?

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That's it for the virtue prisms at the moment, but there was a bit more in the update I'd like to comment on:

I like the UI overhaul for the faction tales. If you want to make it perfect however, I would like to see reward information added to it (what items could you get, how much faction xp are you getting for it)

I know you guys are proud of the new combat sounds, but I gotta say, not the biggest fan of the new default hit sound. The old one is nice and meaty, the new one sounds a bit thuddy.

Not sure how I feel about long blade getting its stab removed from the combo. I quite liked that move, and frankly, the second slice is the one that still doesn't always hit when it feels like it should, not the third one.

Gotta ask with the new dual sword secondary: Do those also use the short blade upgrade tree? Truth be told, the entire category is getting a bit crowded, when you consider that by comparison, there's still only two shield weapons, for instance.

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It would be great if we could receive a stat breakdown on spells when looking at them in the arsenal, to see what kind of damage/overall effect, duration and range/radius they have and how these things are being affected by the stat they scale off.

noble hearth
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i really like the fifth ! and the others .... but the fifth is EPIC ! cheers +1

steep mango
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i agree that grace sucks still BUT they did say that it increases stealth attacks, finishers, grounded attacks. so anything with a stagger bar can be staggered, most things can get open to finishers, and knocking an enemy down with a polearm or shield is super easy, and it will add bonus damage to those.
so needle with grace will be big damage for stagger finishers, which im pretty sure you can do on the stag since it has a stagger bar and kind of falls when the bar is full. i hope the damage is implemented on things like the bear and spiders (who also can be staggered but dont trigger a finisher action)

rustic shadow
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Well, the question then is going to be whether Grace is going to help with stance pressure in any form. Because these days, I'm absolutely not expecting to get a stagger with every weapon on any boss.

tiny sierra
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I like the new scaling system interms of armor and weapons however I do agree the prisms kind of complicate build diversity, where I think keeping the scaling, but letting us point buy would give optimum customization.

errant dagger
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Starting off the stream with Prisms, and then saying "This is the closest we've gotten to a massive improvement in the game," is worrying. Taking the classic tried, tested, and totally fine RPG system of simply putting points into attributes, and instead introducing a worse system isn't an improvement. Hearing the devs say that's it's a "massive" one makes me feel like I'm in Crazy Town.

Then, they want us to go out and grind for these prisms? You're introducing an inconvenient system, and then compounding it with the inconvenience of having to farm them? This is a terrible idea. +1 and -1 points are standard RPG fare for a reason.

No one playing an RPG is complaining about "micromanaging +1 or -1" like the devs are suggesting. Your points allocation could just as easily be saved to the loadouts as the equipped prisms, too. They are in other RPGs.

Prisms are bad. They bring nothing to the gameplay other than being annoying.

tiny sierra
errant dagger
steep mango
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I guess when I look at rpgs that let you assign stat points most of them are permanent. Elden ring let's you respec during endgame for an expensive item. Being able to constantly change your stats is nice, and your still able to achieve this but its easier with premade spreads.

tiny sierra
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Definitely need to try the new system with armor attunements and so on but i do feel like the prisms are looking like an unecessary barrier for build customization. Once the balance system takes effect people will distribute points where it makes the most sense provided the new attunements actually change the damage scaling for bow and magick

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Also need to see how virtues effect pact ability stats I think that is a very important piece that will give us more perspective

errant dagger
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Yeah, there's no reason that a Prism with a let's say 10/15/30 spread needs to exist when I can just click a friggin +1 and assign that myself. It's just Virtue assignment getting in the way of itself. I see no purpose or value to prisms.

People will reassign their points manually just fine when the new scaling drops, and then should be able to just save that allocation via the loadout button.

tiny sierra
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Now the other thing that is bothering me and will prpbably make more sense when they release the update but current melee weapons that are attuned for something other then courage

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If courage is the melee build for getting in the fray whats the point of gathanan being spirit

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Does gathanan turn into a strictly thrown weapon now?

rustic shadow
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Yup, that was my second point.

errant dagger
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I mean, weapons will have to continue to scale with a virtue type. It can't all just be Courage is the weapon skill, cuz then outside of hitting abilities you're a whacking enemies with a wet noodle. I don't see that the ability scaling needs to be changed drastically on weapons themselves imo.

steep mango
errant dagger
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That said, maybe they'll rework it so weapon types will scale with certain virtues, so like Magick scales with Spirit, and Grace will scale bows and daggers or w.e, Courage will have a broader weapon pool since it's supposed to be the melee stat. I could see this being a thing.

steep mango
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I think melee weapons having attunement outside of courage is part of build diversity and horizontal weapon progression.

tiny sierra
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Yea essentially using a gathanan weapon build will limit you to a glass cannon build

steep mango
errant dagger
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Could re-scale things to have each weapon type scale with each virtue, but they'll have different weight for each type. So Magick might scale 100% with Spirit, but only 75% Grace and 50% Courage scaling. As an example.

tiny sierra
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It does add build diversity but it is less diversity then when joineries changed weapon attunemnets**

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I dont mind that because I do like having class types

steep mango
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I think there should be a weapon for each virtue in a type. Like right now we could use a spirit greatsword

tiny sierra
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Im excited to try out the new changes to virtue balance, but not looking forward to grinding prisms

loud kelp
errant dagger
loud kelp
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I mean look at how weapon slots have been handled.

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Like I get they want money but it doesn't inspire much faith.

tiny sierra
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It is very unlikely i think for those to have paid slots

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Paid slots seem to only pertain to leveled items pacts and weapons. Armors dont have slots totema and runes dont have slots. So until they outright say it will i dont think its worth worrying about

errant dagger
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I'm aware, it's Warframe stuff. Idk, I've been mostly critical of the stuff that this game borrows from Warframe, and I hope that they are placeholders for a more "Soulframe" solution whenever I see vestiges of Warframe in this Alpha. This game needs a unique identity, and not just be "Fantasy Warframe: DE's next grindfest."

tiny sierra
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Also its a wip system that they dont know will stick so even more likely wont have a paid component to it.

loud kelp
errant dagger
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yeah, it likely won't be a paid system until it's set in stone. I truly hope they just kill it, though.

steep mango
tiny sierra
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Its the same as warframes monetization, which is widely accepted in the community. The only reason monetization feels not so good right now is because we dont have farmable wyld pact armors and weapons as well as a trading system

errant dagger
tiny sierra
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Once the trading system is active anything monetization related will be much more fair

steep mango
errant dagger
tiny sierra
errant dagger
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DE definitely doesn't totally hate it's playerbase 😛

astral plume
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I feel like I need to make a video to voice my concerns because they are numeorus and take up too much eyeball room here

tiny sierra
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We know that will come to soulframe eventually

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Pre alpha tingz

loud kelp
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Has it been explicitly stated that they're modeling the monetization system after WF? Particularly when it comes to trading, I keep seeing people say it will come but I've never heard it from an official channel.

tiny sierra
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Well they confirmed that we will be able to trade the paragon gs sp thats a good indication of a trading system.

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They seemed to have taken alot of inspiration from good warframe systems and the monetization and trading system are arguably the best in the industry.

steep mango
loud kelp