#Pacts as a real agreement, not an item of equipment

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heavy trench
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When the game was announced, I expected Pacts to have a greater impact on the game as a whole. I hoped that signing a Pact would be a significant step, defining not only the gameplay itself but also how characters and factions treat the player.

Gameplay would be built on the player gaining the trust of a Pact patron. This, in turn, would reward the player with unique rewards, abilities, lore, and reactions from NPCs and enemies based on the player's reputation with the Pact (I'll describe this in more detail later).

Gaining the trust of the Pact would be multifaceted, and would give players the opportunity to play the game interacting with the part of the game that interests them, rather than the one they are forced to (as is currently the case with gaining reputation in factions).
This would be achieved by allowing the Pact's trust to grow through any actions consistent with the spirit of the Pact.

I'll show this in more detail with the Orengall Pact:
The spirit of the Orengall Pact is something the she wolf can appreciate. For example, freeing Ode's dogs, performing finishing moves and so on.
Also, for those more interested in the lore and interacting with characters, random events related to the Pact may appear on the map, during which, for example, you can talk to Orengall herself or her followers.
For those interested in collecting, there's the option of collecting artifacts related to the Pact. Artifact parts will drop from enemies and chests.

By gradually increasing the level of trust, the player will be able to activate unique events (as can currently be seen with Cavia and Hex in Warframe), as well as new Pact upgrades.

Achieving maximum trust would be accompanied by a lore-significant event and a worthwhile reward.
If we take the example of the Orengall Pact again, then:
This could involve a cave siege with a pack of wolves and Orengall. As a result, the cave would become Orengall's lair, where the player could receive a powerful blessing once a day.

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P.S. Optionally, although in my opinion it is necessary for role-playing, the player must have obligations to the Pact. Failure to fulfill these obligations would lower the Pact's trust and could also lead to the Pact being broken.
In the case of Orengall, this could be, for example, using Ode and Mora's Pact abilities.

I created a forum post: https://forums.soulframe.com/topic/9119-pacts-as-a-real-agreement-not-an-item-of-equipment/

With a more detailed description.

west stream
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I can appreciate the thought from a RP perspective; but I am fairly certain factions are more likely to fill this role than pacts are (though I agree that the word pact comes with some implications).

Dont get me wrong, I love the idea in itself, but in order for Soulframe to be more fliexible equipment-wise, I am uncertain how this would work.

Especially since the last thing you described; the conflict between certain pacts; is something that is tied to the faction system in Warframe... Not the frames.

Perhaps a solution would be to separate the pacts (arms) and bonds into two different core mechanics. The pacts (arms) are a gift for providing a favor for the pact NPC (such as freeing the pups, or helping Bromius), but to upgrade a bond you need to enlist to the specific NPC and use their pact.

All of this said; the current lore system implies that we are supposed to be able to level up our reputation with pact NPCs such as Orengall by leveling the pacts... Perhaps that could be further extended.

TL;DR
I really like the idea of complex pacts between NPCs and players; but since pacts play a big part of equipment gameplay, I fail to see how this would work out unless DE separates pacts (arms) and bonds (reputation with pact NPCs)

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A fun fact is that when you speak to Orlick, there are different entries regarding getting more information for each NPC.

For Garren Rood it says "Rank up the Pact of Garren Rood to learn more..."

But for Orengall it says: "Swear a pact to Orengall to learn more..."

dapper remnant
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@heavy trench

I love this idea in theory.

But don't think it works in a pick up and play, hack and slash mmo.

I can only speak from my experience playing Destiny 2.

People don't like powers that have caveats.

heavy trench
# west stream I can appreciate the thought from a RP perspective; but I am fairly certain fact...

Unfortunately, the post is limited to 2000 :)
Yes, I also suggest separating the weapon (the gauntlet) and the Pact.
That is, players receive the gauntlet as a symbol of the Pact. They can choose to use it or not.

I wanted to give the factions a more significant role.
If the Pact determines how the player will play, then the Faction determines the player's main storyline.
Using Skyrim as an example, the Pact is the Thieves Guild, the Dark Brotherhood, and the Companions.
And the Factions are the main storyline.

In Soulframe, this is either the path of direct confrontation, or the path of victory through raids and cunning, or the path of restoring nature.

I think I'll post a more detailed description on the forum later.

west stream
heavy trench
celest crystal
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So I'm very on board with this idea and expected some similar things when I first started playing myself. However with the current state of the game being what it is, I think this concept clashes with the direction the development team seems to be taking the game in. I also think a large majority of the player base would have an uproar if they got locked into pacts this way.

valid wolf
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Basically make us more like Fae Pact Warlocks ?

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It could be something that layered on the existing pact system, once you max the pact itself you can get additional powers through a closer bond with the patron spirit or something?

hushed falcon
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Feels like this would lock you into playing in one "mode" for much longer than how it works currently. I can even switch up my gear mid sparrow tale right now. I like that kind of freedom in this game. I wouldn't want to lose that.

celest gulch
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This is a nice idea to have more ways to gain XP towards account mastery and even gear

quartz stump
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i certainly hope there is more malleability to the pacts specific powers or hope for the ability to modify or change how the powers operate. as it stands now it just feels like warframe again, weapons do all the work, while powers are on afterthrought

heavy trench
hushed falcon
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Feels like if they add an agreement, that would be part of factions. Doesn't feel like it is related to pacts to me. A pact is really just 1/2 of a frame, with the other half being the armor. You wouldn't make an agreement with armor, would you?

mossy gyro
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A potential solution to the disconnect of pacts a real agreement and as just a piece of equipment, treat it like the Warframe focus school system, but depends on pact.

For example, Garren/Orengall/Bromius would all feed into omen beast "focus" while sirin/oscelda/tethren feed into the general envoy "focus" and Mora/tempest/whatever children faction get them feeds into the faction "focus"

Each of these would then have a macro-scale unlocks that interact with open world events in some way. No conflict with rep gain needed, though you could potentially have something akin to "not rescuing our agent takes some points away."

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Omen beasts I imagine talk to one another, and while you may not necessarily be super bonded with Bromius, he'd likely be willing to give you a (purely example idea) extra armor when in the forests because you helped Orengall and Garren so much.

Same thing with the factions in this system. While you may not have personal relations with them and as such don't have access to their deeper stores of information, Kith of Kings might be willing to (another purely example idea) send ghosts to aid you in combat at night, because they have seen you put in work with the Roses and the power that comes from Ode Tempest, this might help you join with them and put that power to work for their particular interests.

So on and so forth.

heavy trench
# mossy gyro A potential solution to the disconnect of pacts a real agreement and as just a p...

That's also a good option! But it doesn't capture the essence of the Pact as a binding contract as much.

Also, personally, I don't want to get Warframe 2 disguised as Soulframe.
I see enormous potential in Soulframe for roleplaying and story immersion. And with the idea I proposed above, I want to highlight these elements.

Your idea about Pact interaction is also good. I think so too.

mossy gyro
# heavy trench That's also a good option! But it doesn't capture the essence of the Pact as a b...

I do too, both for making Soulframe more distinct and for filling the potential for RP and immersion. I don't think this is necessarily the best option, but a good compromise between what we have and what your idea suggests. I was more thinking of the MechWarrior levelling system when I wrote that, just translating it somewhat to Warframe. Each faction has their rep you build, but across it all you have your own player rep, which is meant to show how famous you as a mercenary are, while the faction rep is more of a negotiation "we do/not like you very much so we will be paying you more/less. You're getting the job just because you're good at it, not because we like you blowing up our stuff."

If the pact-as-gear is meant to represent the personal bond, having a larger "how well known you are across Alca" level bond is a good way to go about having a relationship that doesn't cause player friction with the personal bond. I personally am not opposed to this kind of friction, and I wouldn't mind having what you described in the OP, as mentioned elsewhere many other people might

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I do think that if we are going to really go down the "pact rank is how deep the bond to the associated Omen Beast" route, we'd need to seriously overhaul the loot system, and that's a bit too much for me to come up with.

heavy trench
# mossy gyro I do too, both for making Soulframe more distinct and for filling the potential ...

Hmm, yes, I understand it better now. I even think combining your idea and mine would be an even more interesting solution.
For example, instead of individually upgrading each gauntlet's skill tree, this upgrade could be done for all gauntlets with a common "focus". Also, reputation between Pacts of the same "focus" is partially inherited.

I'd also like to point out that I based my idea on my positive impressions of the WinterSun mod for Skyrim. Playing with that mod became much more fun and interesting.

mossy gyro
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That's the idea. Each individual pact has X levels to it, let's just say 10 for example. Globally, whatever group that pact is in, say Omen Beasts, is 30, and goes up as you do more with the omen beasts. Since we currently have three Omen Beasts, the Omen Beasts level would be 30, and as more are added it goes up by the corresponding amount. Do more deeds for/with Garren Rood, all Omen Beasts like you more. To get the better benefits, you rank up all of them. Same for factions, both pledging to one at a time but also in the general "faction group" of pacts, like Mora's Hand and Ode Tempest.

This also leaves room for other groups and system to come into effect. Ancestor pacts, like Tuvulkane could give you one that ranks up as you craft more things with her and prove to her she's a good steelsinger. One for Verminia and Orlick and any other future ancestors, possibly exclusing Zenith (the camel)

pearl blaze
mossy gyro
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I only say possibly because I don't know what you'd do to rank up a potential bond with the camel without making people buy things BAvakot

pearl blaze
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giving bribes obviously

mossy gyro
quartz stump
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I wonder if Zenith likes paella? ;p

valid wolf
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OK, first read discord message of the day did not disappoint lol

echo falcon
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I bet in the future we will get more quests with the pact beasts and they will develop as characters and have fleshed out systems. Orengall for example has given us care of her pup which will eventually become our mount. Orengall also had a fury claw slash ability that was removed and said would come back later as an ultimate weapon. I can also imagine that the wyld versions of these pacts are directly tied to story quests with said animals.

All great ideas and more is absolutely coming,but I can see them taking their time and prioritizing other content first. They are still working on base mechanics and multisystem release so I can see our relationship with the pact animals to be much later in the pipeline.

I also hope we have to slowly grow our puppy before it can become a mount, I want to fish and feed the dog to help it grow big

heavy trench