founders pack outfits

[fading hare]

DE this is the first time I've ever had this complaint in a videogame so cudos to you guys but the founders packs outfits for Male specifically characters need to be redesigned. they look great on the females but the males look bad. that is the only problem i have.

[vocal kettle]

theres already threads on this topic, see https://discord.com/channels/998758139405029478/1454982779728298107 and also, as was said in that thread, the wyld armors have already been fixed, theres no point changing them mote, just wait for new armours that fit whatever aesthetic you're wanting, or look at all the other armors already available, attached screenshot is a really well written form of why the wyld armours shouldnt be changed again, taken from attached thread

[random spade]

Just because you don’t like the idea doesn’t mean you should try and shame everyone who does. It is not a closed issue because you want it to be.

[vestal onyx]

Pretty sad that we have people denying others preferences, you know? Taste, one of the most subjective things in life for people. What a sad state, honestly. Every thread about this topic has people shutting the conversation because they disapprove of someone else's taste. your opinion on the matter is shared by many by the way and it is rather disheartening seeing the constant push back against it.

Makes me wonder if they have done the same the other way around how people would have reacted.

[fossil folio]

If DE changed the look of their every armor, anytime someone doesnt like it, they will never get anything else done.
There are several sets that look better than the starting sets or have different styles and we are gonna get lots more in the future. I think it's a thing where you are better off accepting that some armor is not for you.

-1 everyone has different preferences

[vestal onyx]

Let me ask you this, then: Is it fair that DE made 2 clearly female inspired sets for both male and female? If you think so, why, when they clearly are going for representation and choice? The feedback on the first bit was heard and changed accordingly, but the result did not satisfy the audience it was meant for.

If their design choice was to make the Founders pack a certain way, they should have stated so and we would have moved along and for some, would have not purchased the sets due to disinterest. Their money, their choice. I, for one, did not expect them to make 2 female bodies for something so basic (male and female) on the Tethren set. I paid money for that, and I wanted my voice heard regarding the matter. I, thankfully, got close to what I signed up for (after the changes), but clearly the rest did not. I am not as pleased either about the sets, but it is close enough, but that is beside the point as I wanted to support DE regardless. However, if going forward we are to assume DE will follow the same pattern, I might call it then and there and quit while it is early. There is no point for me to keep this nonsensical battle of shielding your buddy from criticism.

DE does not need defending, DE is a company that needs to call their audience early on. DE asked for feedback and criticism, and it was mostly reasonable on matters people paid money for.

I simply do not understand the type of behaviour I keep seeing from this community. Truly an odd bunch. Basic requests get shut down for no reason at all. 0 reason and the excuses are, "They already did something" or "You don't like it, don't play it", or "You were not forced to pay money for it".

[random spade]

-1

[random spade]

It because they have an agenda

[vestal onyx]

We do not have to go there, as it will strike a nerve. Let us keep it contained, shall we? If you want to discuss further, we can in the DMs.

[fossil folio]

I do understand what you mean, with 3 wyld sets, they can only ever make either 2 of them more female or 2 of them more male, either way someone might be unhappy.

But like it was said before, they did make changes to improve the male design in a way that's still in line with the original design, i dont think that they are gonna step over certain lines, in terms of changes to the original design.
It's probably also dangerous, because if they change it too much now, people that like the current one might be unhappy.

[tight magnet]

For the free in game armor sets I am generally in agreement with this stance, however as soon as you introduce paid armor sets there is going to be a different standard of responsiveness players expect and are entitled to. If people paid for armor they still don't like even after the changes were made, they should absolutely be allowed to voice that opinion and I think it's in DE's best interest to continue monitoring that feedback.

[vestal onyx]

Easy solution. So easy in fact, it costs them nothing. Release multiple sets for each iteration. They already have the originals and the redesigns. People paid good money for it, and others will benefit from the extra sets, so we all win.

[fossil folio]

Hm, isn't that kinda costly? I mean it's a good idea, but they cant do that for every set where people are devided, right?
Just thinking... where is the line here, and wether i'd rather have 3 new sets or 3 more versions of one of the current ones even if i dislike some of them.

[vestal onyx]

You are thinking way too hard about what I stated there. We already have 1 where it looks female and one where it looks close to male. Release both and actually work on the proper male variant for the third. Sure the third will cost them something to properly model and such, but that was within the already agreed upon expectations from the players that signed up for the Founder's pack from what was stated by the devs. DE did not deliver properly, and when asked for a proper redesign, they did not do a good enough job to satisfy the majority as we can clearly see from the posts regarding the matter.

It is on DE to make it as decent as the female counterpart. DE stated 1 male and 1 female. They delivered on the female sets but not the males. They redesigned it slightly better (as promised), which you should have not counted, mind you (because of the advertisement of the 2 body types), for the intended audience but it still was not as good as the female's. You either do it right or do not do it at all. How can I tell they did not do it good enough? Because they clearly made the armour sets female and iterated on it very slightly for male later on in the original designs.

[raven mist]

Personally we don't quite understand what the issue is with the masc variants, as people just say it's "not masc enough" without clarifying. We have heard one person say it doesn't cling to the body enough, which seems more like a disagreement on the aesthetics of the set than it not being masculine.

If folks would be able to point at specific elements they think make the masc designs too feminine, it might help. Part of why DE was likely able to make changes before is there were a few specific areas identified in feedback for changes: the coattails being not long and flowy on Oscelda, the chest being rounded, and the torso being a bit pinched in the middle. These were all changed with the armour update.

So, 100%, really appreciate the feedback, but if you could clarify with specific elements it might help both DE and other users understand your opinion a bit more!

[vestal onyx]

I am no dev, but I will be blunt: If they understand how to make something look female and elegant, they understand how to make it look male as well. At some point, we got to be honest with ourselves. They made Warframe for goodness sake!

[raven mist]

Oh, 100% they might. But personally do see the masc variants as fairly masculine! Plus, the more precise the feedback, the more DE is able to look at those areas.

Is it the body shape? The trinkets on the armour? The armour is meant to be the armour of ancient champions, so it being a bit extravagant and colourful is in line with it being ceremonial garb, but could that be part of the problem is it feeling formal and extravagant? There is a clear design philosophy with the three sets, which DE might not be willing to forego, so if you outline specific elements it can help them make changes without sacrificing their intent.

[vestal onyx]

I am not good enough to answer your question, bud. I am just voicing the concerns and supporting the other point of view. If I was an expert in the matter to point out what exactly is wrong with the sets, you would see me sending my own redesign concepts to DE directly, and I would become an artist.

All I know personally is that it is just not what I had hoped out of the Founders pack and as stated in another post, I was hoping for something "wyld"er than what we got, but that is another discussion.

[raven mist]

Totally fair! Mostly just trying to help keep communication open and clear to make a more constructive thread!

[vestal onyx]

Absolutely! It is all about being reasonable, and when I see someone being unreasonable about the matter, especially when money is involved, I speak up.

[raven mist]

Wanting the sets to stay as they are, and wanting them to change, are both reasonable. As long as people are being respectful and constructive, and trying to engage in a discussion of the topic.

[fossil folio]

I love this take on this topic, it is encouraging better feedback and actionable specific changes.

If I had one gripe, with any of the wyld sets, it would probably be, that i think that the belly area on the male oscelda set, could do with being covered or partially covered, to differenciate between the versions a bit more and make them give the same vibe without looking the same. Preferably cover them somewhat in a way that is still a bit more on the flowy and elegant side.

And for the Thetren wyld set, I would love it if they could find a way, to make the free arm look less thin and spindly compared to the rest of the armor, maybe by making the other arm look a bit thinner as well?, but not sure on that one.

[vocal kettle]

this too, oscelda has full on pecs and abs now it already fully masculine as far as i can see, and tethren isnt really masc or fem aside from the round vs flat chest chest section, its just bulky

[fossil folio]

Hm, do you think, the bulk of the cloth parts should maybe be turned down just a little bit?
Just thinking, that might help with the free arm thing, and make it fit better.

[vocal kettle]

no, its fine as is to me, its weird but slmost all of DE's stuff is weird but i like it, especialy after almost 4k hours in warframe.