#Comprehensive melee feedback

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

vague oasis
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I have mained melee in a lot of games, like a lot. I also have 5k hours in Warframe, which will be relevant;

  • most important first, let us dodge right after we get hit, unless it is a knockdown. Currently, one enemy hitting you gets you blendered. You have to stand there and take multiple attacks whilst smiling. Take a note from Souls games. Mistakes need to be fair

  • too much AOE and CC from enemies, which is fine in WF but not here. Playing melee means you spend a lot of some fights looking at the sky, even if you're a good player

  • stability needs to function as hyper armour AND passive poise, again, like Souls games. This is especially horrible on slower weapons like greatsword. You can be 99% done with an animation and get taken out of it

  • tracking fights the player at every turn. Being able to fight with agency of the camera and manually choose where the attack specifically goes is paramount for third person melee

  • flat armour needs to go. % damage reduction is way healthier for the longevity of the game. It also allows the devs to fine tune enemies and bosses whilst letting faster weapons chew threw enemies properly

  • some animations need work (not all)

That's it for now. These are the most pressing points that need addressing, in my humble opinion. The foundation is GREAT ♥️

Would appreciate +1's so melee can catch up to magic and ranged combat

steep plank
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think Steve (the CEO) mentioned in his recent stream that the stability/stagger system is getting some changes

dense lynx
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Agreed, especially on the points of hyper armor and CC spam

lofty comet
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yeah, melee is the funnest part to be in, but also the most painful. you get cool moves and damage, but you also have all the bs enemies can ditch to endure

silent vapor
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Absolutely agree with being able to dodge immediately after being hit. That and/or let me parry as well.
And for the love of, if I fully charge a melee attack, enemies should not be able to just ignore it and power through like I just gave them a mean look instead of taking half of their HP in one strike.

hollow phoenix
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If you are getting blended after 1 hit then you are surrounded, which means you arent properly kiting. Skill issue.

Stability definitely works. But similar to dark souls, if your poise isnt high enough, your attacks WILL get interrupted.

Use totems to boost Stability, prioritize it over physical on armor also.

I have boosted my magic defense and Stability, even higher with runes in magic weapons because you get 2 slots. Grenades barely do damage or stagger me. I also have enough poise from Stability that my great swords cut through most attacks on trades.

Camera and lock on are a non issue when playing with controller, I think most camera issues with targeting come from mouse players.

Flat armor is BS, with consecutive hit joineries I dont do damage untill ive hit the enemy 2 or 3 times, absolutely weird mechanic. This system empowers felllust also

vague oasis
lofty comet
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also, if i'm to kite, better do it with the ranged weapons, wher eit feels good rather than some workaround we should not need

hollow phoenix
# vague oasis Definitely not a skill issue, on slower weapons you are gambling when attacking....

OK man but in this game you do not want to be surrounded, regardless of how the camera reminds you of a batman game you played.

Don't let enemies surround you, they will all attack at once (has anyone ever played dark souls)

Heavy weapons are slow and if you had unlimited poise you could just swing your sword and everything would die, slow weapons means you need better timing. With greatsword I use the heavy attack because its faster and hits harder then the lights, after one heavy im dodging and repositioning because I know an attack can interrupt my swings.

The thing is we have a combat system, if you learn it then you can work around it and get good.

This isnt batman or god of war, adapt to the system, it is what it is.

Modt combat complaints come down to "this games combat isnt exactly like the other game I play".

Also regardless of poise, dodge and block can cancel most attack animations, so if an attack is looking to break your poise, then just dodge or parry it instead of letting it hit you. Again dont let more than 1 enemy swing at you at once, its bad for you.

lofty comet
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alright, dark soul mentionned as point of reference, here we go again

hollow phoenix
lofty comet
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dark soul isn't the freaking and all be all of games ffs

hollow phoenix
lofty comet
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especially for combat

hollow phoenix
lofty comet
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sinest, the devs themselves said the soul has no freaking link to the souls game

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and elden ring isn't what's been inspiring the game. you can see a lot more shared DNA with zelda games and Ghost of tsushima

hollow phoenix
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Kayrozen, the dev themselves they were inspired by elden ring and Steve couldn't put it down before soulframe was announced, the inspiration is obvious.

lofty comet
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jsut because combat revolves around inputs rather than numbers doesn't mean it's influenced by souls games

hollow phoenix
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Tbh every 3rd person rpg in the 2020s has been influenced by dark souls in some shape. You can't deny its impact on action rpg fantasy.

I KNOW that DE is wanting to do something different, and they absolutely have, especially with combat. But to say its not an influence is to deny how much love and respect Steve has for those games.

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I dont want soulframe to be elden ring, I like soulframe because its NOT.

Fromsoft games for me are frustratingly difficult and I like that soulframe is way more chill. So when we have people complaining about being surrounded by enemies and blended I just have to say its a skill issue

lofty comet
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...and you do that by telling people to look up the games you don't awant this game to be... At this point i'm going to call you a troll, because the other alternative isn't very nice

hollow phoenix
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Dude I said that stability is similar to poise in darksouls. Not that anyone needs to "look it up" or that I WANT it to be dark souls. If I make a reference to darksouls its only because the games have similar mechanics. If your stability is high enough your attacks dont get interrupted, where is the issue here?

vague oasis
vague jewel
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agree on everything

lofty comet
# vague oasis Just to be clear, I know this isn't a Souls game. However it is a 3rd person fan...

well, that's the thing tho, their combat is kind of specific to their genre. the key things of souls like is that you are mechanicly an underdog. the game is built around being unfair but honnest, so that beating it feels good. SF is not that, which is why comparing the combat isn't really working, just like it would if you compared to DMC. ther eis similarities, but SF is absolutly going toward the same power fantasy as ghost of tsushima instead fo the punishment of a DS

pastel gull
# vague oasis Just to be clear, I know this isn't a Souls game. However it is a 3rd person fan...

Exactly: any game with 3rd person melee combat needs to look at souls, even if its to decide "we don't want to be like souls games" and make intelligent choices around what to do and not to do. IMO the interrupts, stuns and animation locking are still very soulslike and this seems at odds with the fluid, tactical combat the game seems to be reaching for.

Its not bad by any means, in fact Soulframe already has some of the best combat I have experienced in recent memory. I love that I can pick apart a group far above my level if I am careful in my positioning, movement and setup. I also love that a pack of lvl 5s can floor me if I act stupid.

But there are a lot of things that seem frustrating and inconsistent. The targeting, the CONSTANT interrupt spam, that limitless heavy attacks and AoE CC...these things should exist but the sheer quantiy of them doesn't feel good right now.

remote fiber
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Stagger is terrible, if you get hit once you are in trouble. Outside of this I'm fine with melee combat but maybe I'm used to having a harder time because I played melee so much ^^.

pastel gull
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Range/Melee dancing is really good. Even getting a few feet out of range and softening a group up can make you feel like a monster.

fading ridge
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+1 to all of this. Melee, and especially stability, still needs work.

high lodge
main mulch
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+1 I especially agree with the target lock note. I am also aware that the devs said they’re working on it, so I hope it comes out great!

fleet trout
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tracking fights the player at every turn. Being able to fight with agency of the camera and manually choose where the attack specifically goes is paramount for third person melee

If only... I've been wanting it to go that way for ages.

I agree with most of this, the AoE doesn't bother me so much... but getting flinch locked is real problematic, the game deciding where my weapon swings go rather than me is one of my least favourite things here, and flat armour kinda forces your hand into slower harder hitting weapons at higher levels, lest you do just 1 damage.

remote fiber
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Oh one thing I almost missed. Why do enemies not use their "Vs ranged" attack patterns and the "vs melee" patterns at the same time? Melee is far to easy to space out but as soon as you have a ranged weapon in your hand enemies attack ranges increase 2 times and they use different moves.

If enemies used their longer front/charge attacks vs melee enemies as well mele combat would at least be a bit difficult outside of getting stunned and staggered by everything.

gilded robin
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I do lowkey wish thrown weapons would glow to indicate theiur location

misty lynx
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+1

gaunt ermine
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+1
To all.
How in the world did it get easier to play bow and magic weapons, but come P11 and beyond, melee suddenly became incapable of blocking heavy attacks? Melee got harder for no good reason and it doesn't add anything to the game except frustration.

I love melee to death in other games - it's preferred, even. Sekiro and Nine Sols were both really really fun with the intricate parry shenanigans.
Melee in this game became frustrating and dreadful basically overnight after P11 dropped (broken stagger mechs. notwithstanding).

Not to mention that parrying is bugged right now since P11 (regardless of the stagger bar, you occasionally eat an attack instead of doing what would have been a successful parry), and nobody seems to notice or care.

Do this: take a weapon that can parry attacks. Pick an enemy, and just parry their attacks for the rest of your life. You'll shrug and go "huh, I guess I missed that parry".
You didn't.
You're not crazy.

To my parrying brethren out there: I see you, I feel you, and you are not alone.

short flower
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+1
+1
+1
+1
+10000
+1

spring wasp
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+1 to all of this desperatley want dodging and blocking to be an animation cancel, and instant one, hate getting uncontrollably
hit by grenades and explosive arrows because i started an attack right before the thing entered my view, and also desperatley need percentile based armor im gauss main i want FAST WEAPONS that work

remote fiber
acoustic salmon
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Yeah I agree with all the points here. Might I add that the bows shoot where you aim, but the melee only slashes in the direction you are facing, and not your camera.

hard granite
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+1 I would include that the parries are very pointless compared to anything else. And on top of this, the new banneret lightning attack is basically impossible to dodge as melee.

high lodge
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no animation cancel + rooted on ability. grenade lands at feet and just get the aww shht...which if have time to say that in head is enough time to react and roll..even if ability went on CD...
tho be nice if all pacts were robust as oscelda in handlng ability interupts

the fear thing makes difference

riposte is alot of my damage depending on weapon.

clever quest
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+1

Im the type of person who only plays melee. I just cant get into soulframe's melee. I absolutely hate it. Its EXTREMELY clunky and you feel punished just playing that playstyle.

Melee almost needs an overhaul its so bad.

severe hinge
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P11 definitely made parrying worse. I used to parry like 90-100% of the time, and now not only did the window get ridiculously narrow (unreactably narrow, especially for some attack animations that are horribly telegraphed and have minimal reaction times) but it is also bugged.
Like: My shield is up already, why am I taking the hit? It didn't even block? Parrying totems are a bandaid fix, and not even a good one at that. Parrying should be possible and feel good at base, increasing parrying window with totems should be QOL, not mandatory.

Well, it got horrendous after P11 and it's very unfun. Specter strikes need a lot of work too as an alternative.

It's so frustrating because the combat has crazy potential, but it is very unpolished, which is normal for a pre-alpha, but it's not being talked about enough from the devs side.

From the lack of polish to the bad and clunky animations, and weirdly designed mechanics like smite and rune activation, we need to start seeing them acknowledge these issues.

hard granite
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Super agree with the fella above. Unfortunately, I joined at P11 and have never actually enjoyed this game's melee.

ripe glacier
ripe glacier
lofty comet
ripe glacier
hollow phoenix
# ripe glacier I wouldn’t haze him too much it is the literal closest thing to what the devs wa...

I've seen a lot of people get very defensive over referring to dark souls. Especially since SOULframe "isnt a souls-like". Personally I feel like the genre "souls like" is thrown around too much, 3rd person action rpg is more accurate for 90% of what's considered souls likes these days. IMO the dark souls universe is defined by its atmosphere, lack of tutorial and handholding, and slow tactical combat, which makes SOULframe way more of a souls like than khazan, albeit a cozy "souls-lite".

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Also introducing elden ring and dark souls fans to DE games is a win, especially if we can keep pvp out of soulframe lol.

lofty comet
# ripe glacier Cope harder

you mistook this chat for your mirror. if you say things to yourself, say them there instead of pinging me

ripe glacier
lofty comet
ripe glacier
lofty comet
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alring, another one to the ignore list, don't have time for that

compact frigate
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too much AOE and CC from enemies, which is fine in WF but not here. Playing melee means you spend a lot of some fights looking at the sky, even if you're a good player

Yeeeah.... it feels pretty brutal sometimes, mostly because enemy AoE boxes are pretty huge. The knockdown hits me even when i'm across the country. Regular mob enemies shouldn't have such long or wide reach with their AoE skills. At least not when they're relatively low-cooldown

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Parry & block directionality or hitboxes also feels a bit wonky, but i can't qualify the "why" with good detail. Part of it might be due to latency, part might be due to parrying hitboxes... not sure

having really clean hit boxes, and bigger damage boxes four our attacks, might be really helpful. Combat responsiveness and clean hotbox interactions might be paramount.
It goes a long way when making the combat feel intuitive.

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+1 overall

hard granite
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I would also admit that the hitbox are a little too small. You can shoot ode in the head, and the arrow will go right through them. I know that's not melee feedback, but just going towards the hitbox as being a problem lol

ionic sphinx
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+1 with op

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swithcing from magic to melee i do seem to see alot of the issue that op is pointing and would agree and make enjoying melee hard bc of it

clever quest
# lofty comet jsut because combat revolves around inputs rather than numbers doesn't mean it's...

Steve himself said that while it wasn't the initial inspiration. It does have some influence, notably the combat pacing and camera. Two major parts of combat. So take your lies and go. Quote from the Washington post article:

“I think it certainly isn’t an inspiration for the initial ideas or what we wanted to do,” Sinclair said. “Ironically, other titles that were maybe borrowing from ‘Warframe’ might have been some sort of reverse influence. But ‘Elden Ring’ has absolutely been a subject of some conversation — maybe to do with camera, maybe to do with how excellent their combat pacing is. And you know, screw those guys, because damn, ['Elden Ring'] was absolutely fantastic.”

livid sable
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+1 for what op said