#Orengall Needs some changes.

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

lament pond
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Orengall is a fun but really low-powered pact, and it's current state is becoming unappealing on higher levels or Cogah missions. The niche of being a Wolf master/summoner is nice, but I feel DE has heavily nerfed the wolves too much in the fear of automatization... Which isn't the case.

So I'm gonna list out some changes I feel would help benefit the pact while keeping it balanced with others.

  1. Werewalker, the problem with this ability it's that it has so many restrictions it might as well be the Ivara's Prowl of Soulframe, the "being vulnerable aspect" is not fun, and makes using this ability extremely ill-advised during a fight, it is only useful for engaging, but even then it's not fast or snappy enough on the "Instakill attack" prompt, which leads to the wolf doing a simple bite and ending the ability.

Changes? Werewalker should honestly work like Glamour, turn your character into the wolf and instead of making enemy hits pull you out you have a meter, doing the instakill is now relegated to a "Heavy attack" that will instakill the target, but it consumes the meter and ends the ability, but you can now do light attacks that consume the meter less. Maybe increase the cooldown to compensate

  1. Packhunter, at low levels it's a good enemy aggro tool, above level 30 this thing is useless, the wolves die to a single sweep and the cooldown is way too large.

Suggestion? Pack Hunter's wolves should honestly just be duration based with no health, if they want to give them health then give them better health scaling instead of the paper mache health they currently got, and raise the cap to 4 wolves if you go for the "Health" route, if going for the duration route, then 2 wolves max is ok

  1. Howl is the best of the kit because it's a Courage buff and maybe some Smite chance, I cannot stress that shouldn't just be it.

Howl should be more than a Courage buff, apart from Smite chance buff, maybe make it a movement speed buff that affects the summoned wolves too

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I would also suggest making the Feral arts be a bit more common in apperance than it currently is, most of the time you see it once every 5 battles, and it's good she comes to instakill an enemy, but she needs to appear more than just the current rate

jaunty sphinx
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+1

lament pond
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I would also point out, Orengall has quite a cool unique unarmed melee attack, but I kinda wished it had something special to it rather than just being a unique version of it

coral girder
primal ravine
frigid tree
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also they could make orengall's 1 a movement ability so your character gets moved to its position when it ends

lament pond
lament pond
bright mirage
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Packhunter is also seriously underwhelming. I thought I'd summon two wolves at once to fight with me, maybe 3 max, but even with significant investment in duration, by the time I can summon a second one, the first is due to fizzle out any time soon.

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Lastly, a more noticeable visual cue for Howl would be nice, would make it easier to know when it runs out.

lament pond
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I know they want to go the route of "Cryptic and aesthetic over "videogamy" mechanics"

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But I preffer to see the numbers in the screen that tell me how long something lasts

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I think even hardcore immersive games like Elden Ring have those

bright mirage
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A small indicator, like the one for smite triggered weapon effects should suffice

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Or an aura around the character starting to fade when the ability runs out

thorn rampart
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If the wolfs would be better it would be fun. Right now they simply are instantly killed the moment you fight even a Banneret.
The buff on the howl isn't healing onshots but getting more courage and smite chance is realy nice because you can procc runes faster.
Werewalker is just stupid. Make it some kind of backstab like attack on the end and then you port to the enemy stabbing them.
Orengall is thematicly nice but everything about it is rather mid.

jaunty sphinx
grim island
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just be immune while using 1st

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3rd is fine granted taken as increased smite chance

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and it doubles your courage asw

lament pond
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Doubling your courage doubles down on the whole "Courage maxxing" and how other virtues esentially dont matter

grim island
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What would be QoL is having timer shows up on the 1st skill

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Know when to pull out

lament pond
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It should be a buff in tandem to the rest of the kit, as to why I think giving you and your allies (Including the wolves) movement speed

grim island
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But if thats how it goes then ight

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Its pretty strong in cogah despite skill point limited

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Due to the howl abl

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A more consistent shewolf trigger, 1st skill that shows timer, and 2nd skill's AI being more consistent asw at targetting enemies

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Thats what the pact needs (improvements) tbh

grim island
lament pond
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I would honestly just wish for them to overall

  1. Remove the health and make 2 wolves the max, 1 per cast and just give them a relatively short duration

  2. Increase the wolf cap by 4 and 2 per cast, and buff their hp so they can atleast withstand two swipes of a lvl 40 banneret instead of one

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And like, I honestly just want 1 to be an ability I want to cast mid-combat rather than before combat

grim island
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Needs a middle ground yk

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Too many wolves would just be an afk playstyle

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On low lvl areas to lvl 20

lament pond
grim island
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(you can summon up to 5 btw)

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Yeah you'd want more cc on higher level

lament pond
grim island
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Its a bug

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Client>host bug

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Normally you'd be limited to 2

lament pond
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Ah, makes sense

grim island
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Cast a 3rd the 1st gets replaced

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But the host change triggers that

lament pond
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Like, I think overall if the wolves are goin to die really fast, having bigger amounts of them should be the compromise considering they already imposed a long cooldown on it

grim island
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Yeah they do need more hp for more sustain

lament pond
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But if we are limiting them to 2, then the wolves being fixed duration with no health should be the route

spark willow
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I think it'd be really cool for the first ability to be a pure sustained wolf form, no frame left behind, and having bite and claw attacks scale with your weapon, and give orengal a playstyle of just Being a pack of wolves, you+buddies+Orengall herself.

grim island
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But increased numbers is prolly a bit too strong dont you think?

lament pond
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That's the route they can go for to make them more bearable in combat without risking some sort of AFK strategy

grim island
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Yeah

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Thats what im hoping for

grim island
lament pond
# spark willow I think it'd be really cool for the first ability to be a pure sustained wolf fo...

Yup, that's my suggestion.

Make the 1 turn you into a wolf, no hp, just the wolf with no duration, just a resource meter instead.

Do one instakill attack, resource drains and you exit wolf form, they can even make it a charge attack and if you miss it you get punished, so you gotta use it carefully.

Don't want to exist the wolf form with the instakill or want to save it as a coupe de grace? You can then light attack doing small nibbles and swipes that can deal stagger and consume less of your meter.

Recast to exit on the location the wolf is in, there you go, fun dog-e ability

grim island
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The reason i enjoy orengall because you can play both abl and your envoy

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And its kit is good already, just need a few improvements down the line

spark willow
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i think they could make it so you have to be activley dealing damage for your wolves to attack so you cant afk

lament pond
grim island
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Or just does reduced dmg to bosses

lament pond
grim island
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Yeag

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Unless they intend it as just a way to traverse...

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Not as an offensive abl

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In which the current settings are

spark willow
# grim island That would become the current bromius

wdym? if you mean the maul dmg, i dont suggest being able to constantly nuke as a wolf, i mean have wolf form do like, the same damage as your current weapon, and have roughly 80% uptime on being a wolf, and same uptime on your summoned wolves existing.

grim island
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No not nuke

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Single target instant kill

spark willow
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i said not nuke

grim island
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I never said it would nuke 😭

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Im just sayin that dont make it too reliant on a single ability

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Like bromy has rn

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If having means to travel faster with shorter 1st abl cooldown, i can vouch for that ngl

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Would be good

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And just practically immune while in 1st abl form

spark willow
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OH, yea, id want to balance to focus on always using 1 and 2 simultaneously, to play as a pack of wolves, not as an envoy much less a lone wolf.

lament pond
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I think they should just make it work with Glamour but not let getting hit interrupt you, but I do want them to double down on it letting you become wolf and do light attacks on enemies because I feel abilities should double down on their thematics

grim island
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Yeah make it better and balanced

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Yeah

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All aspects must be played at the same time

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Your abl and your wpn

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A good cycle

spark willow
grim island
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Prolly would be easier to just make us immune

lament pond
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Yeah cuz the way I see it, the gameplay would be

Become wolf, summon wolves, get in the middle of an enemy group, do some nibbles here and there and then kill the one archer or caster enemy, exit wolf form, fight with melee weapons or ranged weapons, use howl here and there, fight is over, rinse and repeat

grim island
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Wouldnt want to make them do extra work for such details

grim island
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The passive isnt just melee, but weapon dmg

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General wpn dmg

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🤓

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Its already strong, but needs some tweaks to be better for cogah content

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You can just cosplay princess mononoke with orengall

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cogah enemies having smite resistance would be nulled by using orengall

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One howl to rule them all

spark willow
grim island
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Yeah

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80% of the fight is... a bit too much

spark willow
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i like the meter idea, OH what what if the meter also drained from damage

grim island
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Would be good

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I mean

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As long as our character doesnt take dmg

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(envoy)

spark willow
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i want to just, not leave our frame behind, wanna fully become wolf

lament pond
grim island
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The current setting is just be careful where you pop your 1st

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Had to make sure someplace safe to pop then traverse

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Honestly they just need the big wolf to pop more often, 1st abl faster cooldown and has a meter, 2nd abl wolf has more hp to sustain dmg in higher level content

spark willow
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OH another idea, reverse the bar, bar drains from time and from damage, and attacking charges the bar, forcing a fun aggressive playstyle to sustain, and maybe give small increase to orengall herself spawning to make up for the inability to do your own mauls

grim island
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Hmmm

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Would make the 3rd abl useless then no?

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Having her appearing once in a fight to take out one enemy is already good tbh (proposal)

spark willow
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im still thinking the wolf attacks would scale off weapon, and could have a smite chance, maybe the maul attack could be the "pull smite", dealing pull smite damage

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does 3 affect allies too?

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like lther envoys

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*other

lament pond
grim island
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Exactly

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3rd enables you to play your weapons

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1st to travel

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2nd to cc/aid in fights

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Its already pretty good, but can be better

lament pond
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Yeah

grim island
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Not to mention the passive

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Its already balanced imo, just need a few improvements

lament pond
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1st could be both a travel tool, a mid-fight panic button and a combat tool with a limited use so it's around 50% or 30% of the combat

grim island
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Yeah

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Make a guaranteed wolf appearance to take out an enemy once in every fights

lament pond
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2nd only needs a buff in the uptime of those wolves, either by increasing their cap or increasing hp and keeping their current cap, maybe make 2nd at max rank summon the 2 wolves from the get go

grim island
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The wolf uptime is 3 mins (current)

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They just get demolished too easily in cogah

lament pond
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3rd only needs something so it isn't just a flat courage buff, movement speed can be nice, but I think tying it to Orengall showing up is a nice way to kill two birds with one stone and improve both the 3 and the Arts passive

lament pond
grim island
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Ngl the courage and smite increase buff already sold well

grim island
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Mind you

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Cogah enemies has smite resistance

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So its 3rd practically wipes it off the equation

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Cogah line up would just be ode, oren, and others can be anything

lament pond
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I keep forgetting the 3 is also a smite chance buff, I suppose that's why Im not so hyper focused on changing anything else to that ability

grim island
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Yeah

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Smite chance buff is huge huge

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Best combo is just use bows

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Bow and dagger

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And there's sooo many miss translations in the game asw

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You need to figure it out on your own

steel coral
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+1 I agree with your points.
Her 1 would be much better if it didnt leave you vulnerable
I can't quite share the observation that wolves on her 2 die in 1 hit but maybe I just got lucky.
The 3 is there. I guess. No strong feelings tbh

grim island
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oh btw

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you can one hit a single enemy with the wolf

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dealing 1000 true dmg

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just need to get it right

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if fails sometimes it just teleports you back to staring position instead of makes you travel on your current poisition with the wolf for some reason

steel coral
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Yeah her 1 is really good. In Soulframe, individual enemies are meaningful to the whole battle so even having a guaranteed instant kill for just one means a lot

grim island
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but with a note you need to get it right

steel coral
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I abused the hell out of Sirin's 3 when I just started out. With Akin maxed for low cooldown. Allowed me to take out enemies I really had no place to be taking out

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Only complaint is that Orengall's 1 leaves you vulnerable

grim island
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yea

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you need to know when to pop it

steel coral
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Which often ends up ending the ability before you get any chance to do something because you got hit by a stray arrow or something

grim island
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are there enemies nearby or not

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situational awareness mandatory

steel coral
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Yeah

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I think many here coming from Warframe don't understand that this game wants you to use your brains 😂

solemn tendon
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+1, and maybe add a mini version of the old ult onto Howl for increased personal incentivization.

bright mirage
grim island
grim island
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funni interractions and combos

bright mirage
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What that ability needs is reliability and reward. If I'm going to use it for stelth engagement, it needs to be s sureshot. I'f I'm going to use it to move to another location faster, it needs to not leave the Envoy vulnerable.

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Warframe has you using your brains, it's the people who want instant gratification and combos that are having problems, since people here are still figuring it all out.

grim island
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yea envoy vulner is just the bad part about it tbh

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it only took me 2 weeks to figure everything out tbh

bright mirage
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The other problem is, it's very limited. Having your 1 not work in the middle of a skirmish means your other 2 abilities need to be top-notch to make up, and that's not currently the case.

grim island
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the overall kit is solid actually

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i'd prefer this over tethren anyday

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just need a few adjustments