#Joineries below Polished feel pointless.

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

dry timber
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Joineries in their current state have what I'd call a bit of a Railjack problem. Looking at the other 'frame game, there are three tiers of ship equipment. However, the first two are (from my experience) almost always skipped over and used for nothing but scrap. The reason comes down to three factors working together:

  1. The higher tier option is always better and competes for the same slot.
  2. The higher tier option is immediately accessible without much effort.
  3. There is a significant crafting cost that disincentivises players to "waste" resources on an inferior version.

All this is true for the joineries as well. It's really not that hard to grind up for a polished/blessed joinery even with starter equipment and the resource squeeze inherent to starting out in the game means that I can't imagine too many folks out there will be paying the price to recraft their weapon with a lower-tier joinery.

From my non-game dev perspective, fixing this issue requires that any three of the aforementioned factors are out of the picture: either having the higher tier joineries provide specialization instead of raw power, making them more of a mid-late game goal, or just messing with the costs of reforging.

The Polished/Blessed distinction is a great example of the first option in action: the Blessed joineries are rarer, but provide a benefit of changing the weapon's virtue as opposed to just being better, so both tiers are desirable.

little panther
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Agree. The lower tier feel totally useless. Something like making Rusted usable any level, Tempered min lvl 15, and Polished only lvl 30 would make the other tiers at least feel useful. However, I don't consider that an optimal fix by any means.

dry timber
mighty kelp
zealous zealot
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I feel like if lower tier joineries treated like arcane, this wont be an issue.

If 3 rusted can be combined to get 1 tempered. Then 3 tempered can be combined to get 1 polished. I think any player wont mind get lower level joinery this way

nocturne drum
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+1

autumn canyon
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+1

normal kindle
nocturne drum
proud aspen
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+1

drowsy ferry
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Tempered and Rusted only have value for a few levels until you get your first few Polished. Once you have a few, if you keep playing you will get more faster than you can level weapons(YMMV).

If we can't combine/recycle/salvage the lesser ones in some way to make more polished from them (or something else) it would be better for the Tempered and Rusted not to drop.

A small stack flowers for crafting would be more valuable to all involved.

clever dock
# little panther Agree. The lower tier feel totally useless. Something like making Rusted usable ...

I don't think that changes anything honestly, i don't think many people put investments into a non maxed weapon anyway, and also im pretty sure in that case people would just wait til 30 and use polished instead of using resources 2 extra times for minimal stats, its not like you cant progress without them and they dont add a whole lot regardless, as it stands even polished are just a lil bit on top, not game changing, you can take it or leave it really.

The rusted and tempered versions offer even less stats, imo its entirely pointless to use them at any point in time, what they give isnt even worth the effort of 3 clicks at the blacksmith even if they were free to use imo

little panther
astral hollow
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Maybe they can be used to craft more powerful ones

Also
Having 2 end goals for this mechanic would be fun
Either you swap the virtue and get scaling + nice bonus
Or you keep the base scaling and get an extra bonus

clever dock
little gorge
little panther
heady warren
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Yeah we went from joineries being impossible to find to having too many. If nothing else let us convert them to totem upgrades

little panther
# clever dock Personally i think just remove rusted and tempered make polished the base versio...

I think that was why in my head I thought allow Rusted to be used at any level. It provides same base stats. At weapon lvl 15 they can add a Tempered to bring it up to current Tempered level. Then at max weapon level they could put a Polished on top of that to have the full current Polished bonus (maybe reducing crafting costs of each tier to bring in line with what just a Polished would cost). Again, this would only be if they insisted on keeping all the current tiers instead of just dropping the two lower ones or reworking the system entirely.

little gorge
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Doesn't reforging reset weapon lvl? tying tiers to specific lvls would just force players to re-level their weapon, most would just level to 30 and apply polished or blessed at the end anyway

clever dock
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Only blessed ones reset the level

little gorge
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oh nvm then
I thought they still reset ur weapon

heady warren
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They all used to yeah. But right now lower ones need some work

hallow sky
heady warren
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It’d be different if we couldn’t kill level 30s out the gate so the low ones had a purpose

hallow sky
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Yes, but you also have to consider how this pays off in the long run. After about 20+ hours of gameplay or more, lower tiers would still become permanently useless.

At the same time, you have to be careful not to introduce too much complexity into early systems. That scares off new players.

wanton knot
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Very well made post! Came here to make one like it but you beat me too it 🙂
I agree with what you said

storm leaf
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id vote to eliminate point 3 of your comparison; decrease the application costs for rusted and tempered significantly, to the point where rusted are basically free to apply- no rare resources for a start.
make it so you can apply rusted joineries at lvl1 Tuvalkane as well, to give an actually new player a pointer towards doing so
(this would also help with wulder being a truly godawful weapon, especially if tethren ends up getting nerfed)

this still would run into them being mostly useless once you have a decent bank of resources to draw off of, but it would at least give them a point in time where they had a purpose

midnight pulsar
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Lesser joineries can be used on non-max rank weapons and doesn't reset their rank to 0

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While still providing the same damage buff

storm leaf
little panther
sand tangle
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+1

midnight pulsar
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Thats all they do diferrnt

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The other joineries do everything else and don't make you spend 2 more hours farming the infinite dungeon to level up the weapon again

storm leaf
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i understand if you have blanked them out because they are totally useless, but they DO exist and are what this entire thread is about

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Gildaurs as demonstration, Polished Joineries are good, they are the most used and the only ones i have ever bothered to apply

RUSTED AND TEMPERED, however are currently pointless items

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honest rose
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I think it would maybe be a nice tradeoff if Rusted and Tempered also didnt cost mats

wanton knot
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I have never applied a rusted nor a tempered joinery either. Polished and Blessed ones are just so accessible, why bother?

wanton knot
storm leaf
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if they were free i would at least throw them on MR fodder stuff while leveling

honest rose
storm leaf
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rusted and probably tempered should also be appliable without leveling tuvalkane so new players can put them on their starter gear immediately

honest rose
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Yeah, just make it super accessible.
Even though the old joineries dont work anymore, it was way better being able to just add them to the initial craft.

Maybe they could reintoduce it for rusted and tempered

midnight pulsar
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And give all the guddies without deranking

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Rusted and tempered are more common..someone may not always be able to get polished

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And blessed are only useful if you really need to change weapon attunement

daring rain
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I reforge every weapon I level because I'm lazy. I drown in mats anyway so I don't care about the costs. Getting some significant dmg boost is worth the effort from my point of view. reforging them again at 30 makes it still not expensive.

midnight pulsar
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Time expensive

storm leaf
# midnight pulsar Yes but polished are abundant too

The point if this thread is that there should be A use of some kind for rusted and tempered
ask anyone, no one has ever applied rusted or tempered to a weapon because by the time you have levelled tuvalkane and have the resources to spend, you have a stockpile of polished already- as you yourself said, polished are abundant

this thread has nothing to do with blessed, i think blessed inherently have their own problems and probably shouldnt exist but that isnt relevant here

this thread is saying that rusted and tempered joineries need changes of some kind because there is never a good reason to EVER use one in the current state of the game

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we are talking explicitly about the lower joineries, Blessed deranking is a meaningless point here because we arent comparing to Blesseds, we are comparing to polished

daring rain
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I used a rusted... well once. TBF they could remove the lower ones completely or give them as some no cost tutorial thing because once those things matter you have 147825 of them.

fathom musk
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I could excuse one tier below polished (there doesn't need to be more than that), if it could be applied to weapons with no other material costs. So you'd throw it on fodder just to help you when levelling them before you sell them off.

Either that or let them be crafted up into the higher tiers.

sturdy stone
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The two lesser things should be able to be pulled apart for resources or merged into better ones

merry plover
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+1, but i think the rarita of a joinery should make them have different stats they boost, not just being a worse/better version of itself. as someone who has every weapon reforged with at least a polished joinery, with still 50+ gildaur polished and dozens blessed joineries in inventory, id rather see the more common joineries give more variety in what they do rather than being able to "upcraft" them, since after a while you have way too many of that stuff anyways

drifting badger
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+1