gameplay-discussion

[vagrant kayak]

You can just type, or you can turn off the @ when replying by toggling it to the right of your message

[nova summit]

But levels reset next time you go into cogah,
if your play sessions are less than 2 hours, you can't really stock up on cogah potions either

Right now, a player who can leave their computer on all night can just stay in nightfold and not consume/reset their cogah. Meanwhile players who shut it down, will lose their cogah endurance progress and will need to craft another cogah potion. I dont see the bad side of cogah staying on during log off, the same effect is already possible as long as you can afford to pay the electricity bill lol

[vagrant kayak]

Ok but again, there is no reason to stay in Cogah

The Cogah exclusive rewards only come from the bosses, sure people may enjoy seeing Big Number on enemy level but that is not the intent of the mode, there are no extra rewards beyond seeing Big Number

It's like people who go to level cap in Warframe, sure you may like it, but there's no reason for it

[nova summit]

Technically speaking there's no reason to play soulframe at all
Some people enjoy endurance runs, I dont see why letting people do the activity they enjoy without having to just leave their pc on all night hurts anyone

[vagrant kayak]

The intent of the system is a temporary mode you play until you lose or leave, there's a deliberate time gate and minor resource cost/farm you need to do, changing it to be always on AND remember enemy levels is contrary to the design of the mode. If the only reason to do that is "Well some people like it" I don't think that's a very compelling argument

[nova summit]

Except you can "not leave" by simply going into nightfold and leaving the pc running all night

[vagrant kayak]

Sure, you can also get to level 9999 in Warframe and pause and leave your PC running all night to always play at level cap, just because that's a thing you can do doesn't mean the game should change to make that a thing

And again, there is no reason to do that, there are no rewards for staying in Cogah indefinitely

Do Agari even respawn if you don't end Cogah?

Can't do Enclave missions while in Cogah either, it's actively kind of detrimental

[restive lance]

I started this topic because I farm runes that drop only from cogah bosses, and I can't stay online all the time, so I've been logging off/on, but it gets very annoying to the point I'd rather stop playing. That's it.

[halcyon thicket]

You get more dracs from higher levels

[vagrant kayak]

Dracs are not hard to come by

[halcyon thicket]

It's just an example

More rewards are gonna be added

Which reward long endurance runs

If they're going the Warframe route that is

[vagrant kayak]

Warframe explicitly doesn't really offer rewards for playing longer

[nova summit]

???
Ofc they do, that's the entire point of staying in cogah. They go up in levels, they give more xp, more dracs and they become harder.
The point of an endurance mode is to see how far you can go, why increase enemy levels otherwise

[vagrant kayak]

It's the AABC rotation and that's kind of it

[halcyon thicket]

And just the fact that you play in high level world is enough for us Warframe players who are used to endurance runs

[halcyon thicket]

One example: void cascade

It's literally a farming game wym it doesn't reward longer play sessions lol

[vagrant kayak]

Rewards don't get better the longer you play in most cases

[nova summit]

Arbis do (infinite c rotation)
Fissures do (boosters)
Fighting the hardest possible enemies is fun
It's like asking why anyone would play ng+7 in ER or master difficulty in titanfall2, because it's fun to have an extra challenge

[halcyon thicket]

You get more thrax spawns at higher levels which means more chances at arcanes

[vagrant kayak]

Most cases and that still caps out IIRC

[halcyon thicket]

Well this is endgame content, so it's not "most cases" from the beginning

Most cases are casual play

So this point in particular is about specific cases

[nova summit]

I still don't see where's the good side of having to leave my computer on in the nighfold when i wanna take a break instead of logging off.
Hogs their server resources, consumes electricity and fans make noise on my potato

[vagrant kayak]

You don't need to leave your computer on, that's a choice you are making, nothing in the game rewards you for doing that

This is a problem completely of your own making

[halcyon thicket]

If you want to play longer sessions to scale the world yes you do

There's no other way to scale enemy level

[vagrant kayak]

The operative part of that sentence is "If you want to" there is no incentive in the game to actually do that

[halcyon thicket]

I gave an example, dracs

[vagrant kayak]

That isn't an actual incentive, in no world is the answer to "I need more dracs" "Leave your computer on so you can do high level Cogah runs"

Just go break boxes

[brittle nacelle]

I feel like ciracade is a way more efficient way of getting dracs

[halcyon thicket]

One siege that takes 2 mins can yield 200k dracs or more

How long will breaking boxes give that amount

[vagrant kayak]

You don't need 200.000 dracs

For anything

[brittle nacelle]

but how long will it take you to get to the point you get that much?

[vagrant kayak]

Also, it doesn't take 2 minutes if you need to leave your PC on overnight lmao

[halcyon thicket]

The point here is for when more rewards are added

[vagrant kayak]

Again, no problem with people enjoying endurance runs, same way people do in Warframe, but that is a choice you are making, let's not pretend the game incentivizes you to do that

Ok, again, there is no indication rewards will be added for doing Cogah endurance

[halcyon thicket]

Why do you think the devs even added level scaling in cogah

[vagrant kayak]

Honestly considering the mode right now is explicitly designed to be played until you fail I would be very surprised if that happened

[halcyon thicket]

If it gave no incentive to be played

[vagrant kayak]

So it gets harder?

[halcyon thicket]

For what?

[vagrant kayak]

For... being hard mode?

[halcyon thicket]

Why? what's the point?

Whats the incentive here

Devs don't do things just to do them

Hard mode for being hard? C'mon lol

[vagrant kayak]

Ok, this is an extremely convoluted series of leaps to come to the conclusion that more rewards will be added explicitly for staying in Cogah for long enough you'd need to leave your PC on

We have literally no info on that whatsoever

And I'm sorry but "Hard mode has enemy level scaling" is not in any way proof

[halcyon thicket]

Which is why is suggested more ways to have cogah persist on log out or other means

An option

To cater to different players

[vagrant kayak]

But that's actively detrimental to how the game is played now, there are things you cannot do or get while in Cogah, if you changed Cogah to be always on you'd get players who are no longer able to get the "basic" Runes without leaving their level 9999 Cogah run

You wouldn't be able to do Enclave Tales, or story Fables

Without changing the entire structure of the game mode

[halcyon thicket]

As you said staying in cogah is an option, you don't have to do it

That means understanding what you can't do

[vagrant kayak]

Ok "You don't have to do it" is not a good answer to "I can't engage with part of the game now"

[halcyon thicket]

You literally gave me that argument lmao

[nova summit]

That's why we're saying that there should be an in-game way to quit cogah, not clunky log off that hurts endurance runs

[halcyon thicket]

You know what i think imma stop it here lol

Feels like we're going in circles anyway

[vagrant kayak]

But quitting Cogah would also hurt the endurance run, doing it in-game would be literally no different from logging off

[finite stone]

It has a very important key difference: player agency

[vagrant kayak]

If the argument for not losing Cogah is "Well I don't want to log off because I'd lose my endurance run" then that exact same argument would apply to having to quit manually to be able to do Enclave Tales or get non-Cogah rewards

[nova summit]

???
Just make a

• Speak to verminia to end cogah
  If i want to take breaks and still be in cogah, i can log off and not drain server resources
  If i want to leave cogah i speak to verminia
  Works the same way as it does now, but i dont have to do clunky log-offs if i want to exit cogah and I dont lose progress if I want to take a break

[finite stone]

That's not the argument

The argument is "I don't want DE to take away my fun hard mode just because I have to go to work, or have an emergency and have to drive a family member to the hospital, without me having any choice in the matter"

You being able to manually finish up your in-game activity is vastly different to being thrust out of it against your will, surely?

[vagrant kayak]

Just drink another Cogah potion when you come back from work?

Are we really saying there is a situation where you are willing to leave your game open for 8 hours just so you don't lose your endurance run but you'd be fine with having to lose that same run if you had to end it manually because you needed to do non-Cogah content?

And both of those are better than just, making another potion and starting a new run

When the only reasons to do such a run is "I want to" or "It gets me a bunch of Dracs I don't need"

[ebon wraith]

i dont get on whats the issue with re-entering cogah when back from work/life etc... unless he wants to keep going to see what level enemies will be at cap(most likely 9999 same as WF)

its not like you get more/better rewards the further you go

[vagrant kayak]

Yeah, I can't reconcile the argument of "I want to be in endurance all the time, to the point I won't even shut down my PC" and "But I'd be fine ending it manually"

[ebon wraith]

to end it without relog just let an enemy kill you and done deal

[vagrant kayak]

I would like a way to end Cogah without logging out as well I just don't understand the desire to keep it going between logins, just drink another one

[ebon wraith]

i think its a desire to see level cap and then brag about it on youtube sort of thing...it was similar on warframe back in the day when people started trying level cap defense missions

[vagrant kayak]

No I know why people like doing level cap I don't think it's just for bragging, but I don't understand why you wouldn't just get there and then start a new run if you had to go to work

[nova summit]

And the only reason to play soulframe is "I want to" or "It gets me a bunch of pixels i don't need"
Endurance is fun, it also helps playtest (enemy spawns break after level 100, some slugs have attacks without animation that you wont notice normally since player armor tanks it until around lvl 100).
Getting silly number of dracs and xp is fun

It's like saying "why would you run denmark undercity once you have 250 moranite", "why would you play endless (when that was still a thing) after your weapon is maxxed out", "why would you play ng+7 in elden ring", "why would you fight bosses after you've gotten all the drops"...because its fun

[ebon wraith]

yep and to get materials for a cogah-cola potion takes literally 10minutes top

[vagrant kayak]

There are incentives and rewards for playing the game, reducing an argument to "Well why do anything" isn't helpful

Also, yeah I DON'T run Dermak once I have all the rewards, unless a Tale sends me there

[finite stone]

i dont get on whats the issue

Different for different people, and I'm not one of the endurance run folks, but for me personally it's that if you have a short window of time to play, maybe 20mins, but if you want to enjoy some hard mode (because Soulframe is imo too easy by default) then it will completely take you out of it after your 20mins of free time runs out

To gather the sap takes time walking to wevetwood, time gathering, and then ofc you have the 2hr craft time for an elixir if you forgot to set one crafting last time you logged out. For those with busy lives and short play windows, the second round of sap gathering will further compound the issue in the above paragraph

No issue with cogah being an elixir, no issue with needing to craft it - but punishment for logging off is not, imo, good game design. Not for a general game mode that's meant to give people some more fun and engaging combat. For something more committal like a raid, then sure, don't let us save progress mid-raid that'd be weird. But Cogah is just hard mode, you should be allowed to enjoy engaging combat whilst also being free to log out should your irl responsibilities come calling.

[vagrant kayak]

There is a reason to play Cogah, it has unique rewards, there is no reason, beyond "I want to", to keep a Cogah run going ad infinitum

Make the potion the day before, its not hard to stock up

I'm sorry but the hypothetical of a person who can only play video games in 20 minute chunks isn't a realistic one for a live service game

Again, you are not punished for logging off, the scenario of "Well what if there was a person who could only play for 20 minutes but they forgot to craft a potion but also they want to do hours long endurance runs" is not realistic

[ebon wraith]

Mate i live in a warzone, i have power issues like no tomorrow(some days i have 2-4 hours of power trough out the day) and yet i have 20 cogah-cola potions crafted and can craft a bunch more. I do go to work and have a life and i started playing P12 so that argument is invalid...

Here is a map which nets you quite a bit of sap and you can spare 1 Seed of life to teleport there

[finite stone]

This might come under the definition of 'I want to', but right now, Cogah is the only way to get engaging and tense combat for many players

Whilst base Soulframe difficulty does need increasing a little (outside of stagger which is a separate issue) I don't think DE should make it that much harder, because I know they have to cater to a wide audience. It's why Warframe is notoriously easy as well, and makes sense - but Cogah is a great opportunity for them to offer some fun and tension and is only hindered by the fact that you're not allowed to log out unless you want to hike all the way back to wevetwood and lose further playtime

[vagrant kayak]

Ok, and you can get to that harder combat by just drinking the potion?

You don't need to be playing until enemies hit level 100 for more engaging combat

And if you did that would be a completely separate problem

[nova summit]

How is cogah ending when you log off making the game better in any way.
You can keep the pc running to bypass it
And there is currently no way to end cogah with logging off the game or dying, both of which are clunky and feel bad
It hurts noone to keep cogah effect on log-off and add a way to cleanse it in-game

[finite stone]

1. My condolences, that sounds beyond awful and I genuinely hope things get better for you as soon as possible

2. No worries about the sap map, there are already two on the wiki page here https://wiki.avakot.org/Wevetwood_Sap 😜 I have no trouble finding it, this discussion is a matter of principle (punishment for logging off being bad design) rather than one of practicality

[finite stone]

Yes, which is why taking 15-20minutes away from the player (approx. time taken to hike to wevetwood and gather 15 sap, ignoring the 2hr craft time) just because they logged off seems very arbitrary and does not contribute towards the gameplay mechanics

[finite stone]

Agreed, for me the fun starts as soon as Cogah begins. I think it's having a punishment for death - it's such an important addition of tension, makes everything feel engaging

[vagrant kayak]

You can make the same argument for anything if that is the bar "Oh I logged off while I was at this location and now the game spawns me a 5 minute walk away"

Like I'm sorry but the "Respecting player time" argument needs to be somewhat fair, you have to craft the thing to start the mode, like I said I would not mind at all a way to manually end Cogah after killing a boss that gives you a sap/potion refund, but the mode still has a minor cost to it

[finite stone]

I would not mind at all a way to manually end Cogah after killing a boss that gives you a sap/potion refund, but the mode still has a minor cost to it

This'd be a great middle ground, I'd be totally happy with that too

[zealous swift]

how does multiplayer work, can you do everything together?

[vagrant kayak]

You can do everything together yes

[finite stone]

quick heads up though that it's not currently recommended to play Fables in co-op as it can lead to bugs, resulting in some players having to replay the Fable or missing Fable rewards

[ebon wraith]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-we-all-lift-together-gif-19925077

[honest rampart]

can i stay in congah mode and do bosses?

[ebon wraith]

as long as you dont die/relog you can stay indefinetly

[honest rampart]

and bosses still keep spawning right?

[ebon wraith]

yes on regular 30minute timer besides king/sieges which is 3h

but mobs do level up everytime you clear the bosses, so random encounters will keep leveling up

[polar ginkgo]

do bosses level up too?

[ebon wraith]

no

bosses do not have levels

[polar ginkgo]

darn, i was hoping for more of a challenge, the most difficult area is that logging camp from what i see

[honest rampart]

imma hide in nightfold

[ebon wraith]

game is PRE alpha cant expect too much content to be ready and polished...altho this pre-alpha works better then many tripple A titles released lately

[honest rampart]

this pre alpha is good. some said, no challenge because they been playing for the past 2-3 months. for new player. OMG. I keep dying man

[ebon wraith]

yeah it took me few weeks to get a hang of the combat here after so many years in warframe 😛

[honest rampart]

this game gonna keeps me busy until d4 new seasons or poe2 new seasons. and i ll rotate back to this game again after i get bored with those 2

[polar ginkgo]

i've seen worse and the game is incredible. im looking forward to the virtue changes that was teased. i came from warframe and souls games so the enemies feels like bullying kindergardeners here

[ebon wraith]

well DE has very good experience with Warframe so hope it will be utilized here to make it much better

[honest rampart]

this is my first soul game ever. i am amazed at the graphic. sometimes, i just run around picking up flowers

[ebon wraith]

ugh another scamturd

[polar ginkgo]

i wish there was a random matchmaking somehow

like raids but i dont think DE is going to try raids after how warframe went

[ebon wraith]

Steve said they do have raids in plans, siege is a baseline for that(his words from one of the streams)

[polar ginkgo]

oh sweet. i guess i just gotta wait patiently

[ebon wraith]

warframe raids gave me and my friends so much fun times back then

hope here it will be as fun

[nova summit]

They do and they do increase. Although it is not visible in their healthbar, lvl 100 bosses will have more health and damage than lvl 30 ones

[coarse raven]

I made a wrong purchase with arcs in the ingame shop. Any way to refund?

[timid steppe]

are they going to overhaul factions? the whole grind is terrible

[regal shadow]

Factions change with almost every update, and they are still a fairly recent addition, they have had a decently major rework in p12

[regal shadow]

Gotta contact support

[ebon wraith]

dam love when some random enemy from far away joins the fight, staggers you with grenade and you die to stunlock from all others

[polar ginkgo]

lumbercamp is that way. that's why i love it there, feels like oden enemy gauntlet

[ebon wraith]

nothing is really hard here... the stagger chain is an issue since even if you build for full stability your butt will kiss the ground as often as having that stat at 0 :)\

enemies have a tad bit too much stagger per swing

[polar ginkgo]

true, i was hoping they could add stagger boosting stuff to heavy weapons since they take longer to swing

[ebon wraith]

thats the tradeof for having more damage tho

[polar ginkgo]

you could just use a faster weapon and be safe tho

[ebon wraith]

short/long blades have that issue, fast attacks but you get chained faster

[polar ginkgo]

short swords(one hand) feel stronger than greatsword to me

[ebon wraith]

and gg

[polar ginkgo]

id say the only benefit right now is the reach that greatswords have over short swords

but short swords are so quick to throw you could just turn them into a ranged weapon

[ebon wraith]

and the long blade new rune that makes it ranged makes you unable to fight on slopes hehe

only horizontal fights

[polar ginkgo]

i always keep forgetting runes exist since i like swordplay but yea the runes are another advantage. i need to grind them still, all i have is the fire rune for greatswords

[ebon wraith]

they are fun

the shortblade "Flintsmoke" makes the game easy mode

and the bow one is just broken

[polar ginkgo]

i do gotta admit, with the games current lock on issues, long sword and dual short sword feel painful to play but greatsword feels awesome

[scenic solar]

Well, got 3 runes... magick, bow, and shortblade, which next?

Also is there any place that might have some better weapon builds than my awful brain can whip up?

[plain pine]

Deveremos ter esperança de um dia ter PVP no game?

[smoky crater]

there's not really a lot of ways to really build a weapon

[ebon wraith]

there arent really perfect builds... you just build it for what you going to use it as

[smoky crater]

English only here.
but no PvP is not in the plans.

enpanol

[ebon wraith]

but i can help you if you need it

[polar ginkgo]

i suck at spanish for a reason

[smoky crater]

i don't even spanish in the slightest 👀

[scenic solar]

#server-rules message

#2

[polar ginkgo]

i basically said i dont speak spanish there... except misspelled it... 3 time

[smoky crater]

i know. i have a translation plugin on discord

[scenic solar]

Oops, misreplied

[smoky crater]

loll

[polar ginkgo]

i sry i break server rule

[scenic solar]

Point still stands

[polar ginkgo]

it's the scam thing someone mentioned earlier, cool.

the humble lumber camp

[patent oar]

So, after maxing out a weapon, should you just sell it? If you don't plan on using it and since inventory space is limited?

[polar ginkgo]

if you dont like the weapon, and think a joinery wont help it, selling it or buying another inventory slot at the camel in nightfold is the best option

[astral lion]

The boy didn't write in Spanish, he wrote in Portuguese.

[polar ginkgo]

oops

they appear similar from a non native speaker

[astral lion]

Don't worry, I just wanted you to know. Yes, they're somewhat similar. But not really. haha

[polar ginkgo]

i know, it especially bothers some people as well. that's why i do really feel bad

[uneven spindle]

you'll be fine

[polar ginkgo]

it's fine sips coffee

i wish i could sort my weapons, not many weapons yet but ive already got a mixed up library

[slim notch]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1174779717753254099/1397320921114476667/image.png?ex=69660844&is=6964b6c4&hm=36d0dedbc25c9f058ab4175b291d34d538df4c04920572f948a1aeb8bcc87dfc&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

[naive solstice]

how do i find squwakers?

[red kraken]

Listen for them, theyre everywhere

[oblique crow]

How can I understand "attacks reduce enemy armor"
Is it basically armor strip like in warframe?

[unkempt sphinx]

Each point reduces armor by one and you do one more damage

[jolly pumice]

how to put mask down?

[sonic adder]

What is the virtue cap?

[fervent fox]

emotes

[buoyant horizon]

hold x, then go to emotes

[jolly pumice]

tnx

also is there courage based magic weapon for sidehand?

[unkempt sphinx]

Depends on weapon equipped. If you mean max a stat can go (50 with courage and MR17/talisman/Orengall)

[unkempt sphinx]

No. Use a blessed modifier at the blacksmith

[jolly pumice]

dont quite get it you mean like reforge or

[unkempt sphinx]

Yes

Blessed Feybalt of Mora

[zenith knoll]

why is feybalt such a pain to acquire compared to literally every other joinery

[crisp zenith]

reforge it to have attunement to courage basically 👍

[jolly pumice]

i just dont get it how it works

where should i go

[zenith knoll]

might just be unlucky but whenever I run the crypt to get some I tend to leave empty-handed

[zenith knoll]

click on the joinery slot

[jolly pumice]

and here should be switch? i only see stat alterers

[crisp zenith]

there are a few that also change attunement

[jolly pumice]

ok found it tnx but what is parry stability lost on it

holy didnt know such thing existed its so good this way just what does parry stability lost means didnt get that like i will not be able to parry?

[zenith knoll]

what it says, you incur less destabilisation when you parry (the white gauge that appears under your hp bar when you take a hit)

[jolly pumice]

soo -50% is good or bad i guess bad?

[smoky crater]

it's a good stat

[crisp zenith]

pretty good if you parry a lot 🤔 . means less stagger build up per parry

[jolly pumice]

yeah i parry quite often

[zenith knoll]

my personal opinion is that for bows, you want the quicksilver joineries as you never parry with bows

[crisp zenith]

yep

[smoky crater]

your stagger meter goes up less when you block an attack (means block because parries don't make the meter go up at all)

[jolly pumice]

tnx for help guys

[crisp zenith]

np ❤️

also, i feel like slow totem on bow is insane 😆 . tested it yesterday on juniper's with the arrow rain

bosses couldnt move for about 80% of the time 😆

[jolly pumice]

oow so i got question on totems too

is there a diffrense between a golden one purple one and others?

[smoky crater]

gold has the highest numbers on the stats, purple in the middle, green the lowest

each totem only has 1 version of it tho so there's not for example both a purple and a gold version of the same totem

[zenith knoll]

but just bc a totem is green doesn't mean it's the worst in slot

and conversely just bc a totem is gold doesn't mean it's the best in slot

sometimes they are but other times theyre not

[jolly pumice]

ok so do i need to let go of totems to get golden ones? or if i catch golden one it upgrades to higher grade?

[zenith knoll]

no theres no such upgrade system

[smoky crater]

you can't upgrade totems because there's always only 1 version of it

[zenith knoll]

a green totem starts as a green totem and stays a green totem

[smoky crater]

i mean... you can upgrade the totem to have higher stats but you can't make a green one purple, or gold.

[jolly pumice]

so i need to let them go to open slots for golden ones?

[smoky crater]

no

[zenith knoll]

no keep all the totems you find

[jolly pumice]

ow rly it just says 6 out of 6

[smoky crater]

the only way you can get a totem is just by finding an animal that gives that totem

[jolly pumice]

that got me lost

[sly escarp]

Each totem is a set rarity

[jolly pumice]

ok got that tnx again

[sly escarp]

Sometimes, there's a second totem of the same animal of a different rarity.

[smoky crater]

if you click on "Compendium" you can see if you're missing any totems for that weapon type

[orchid gyro]

yeah dw about the rarities each totem’s like set of stats is just on that rarity

[smoky crater]

and if you deselect the one on "Compendium"s right side, you can see all the totems

[smoky crater]

but it will have different stats that it gives

[quaint tinsel]

wait how do we use these?

[smoky crater]

totems? you get them by charming animals, and you equip them on your weapons by right clicking on the weapon in your armoury

[quaint tinsel]

ugh wow i am still learning things

[winter geode]

what does it look like from the front? I always put off the helmet because the faceplate is UGLY af

[smoky crater]

in the same screen you can also equip Runes on your weapons

[jolly pumice]

got to know it just now hella ugly its because my set doesnt suit it

building 3 star set right now

[halcyon thicket]

What the hell is that top right of your screen

[smoky crater]

i was thinkin the same but i chose not to ask

[winter geode]

webcam /j

[jolly pumice]

can i parry blowing arrows?

[smoky crater]

yyyyyyes.
if you have the combat art to parry heavy attacks iirc or you're using a magick weapon

[jolly pumice]

ok nice info

https://tenor.com/view/squidward-dab-dabbing-gif-13749351

can i make magic weapon also courage based?

[smoky crater]

with a blessed joinery yeah

tho i wouldn't go and use blessed joineries except for memes at this point because the virtue rework is coming soon

[arctic hazel]

tbf they're not exactly too hard to get

grind the stag in the northeast

anyone farming gatharnnan will get loads

[tribal mantle]

find a relic of old 'fire the ode soulframe is a bug right, im stuck 20 minute and can not find

[dreamy canyon]

I think it is sometimes bugged cause I did it once but the 2nd time I spent 20min too with no success

[slim flax]

Not sure if this is just skill issue, but I feel like there is way too much enemy CC in the game right now. Also the time to recover from a hit is a little too high. I can never block a follow up attack after getting hit once

[dreamy canyon]

Dodging and immediately attacking seems much better right now. Parry window is a bit funny

[cold cypress]

if my pc runs well warframe will run soulframe good

[zenith knoll]

the item you need to find isn't always in the marked area

at worst it'll be reasonably close to it though

[jolly pumice]

guys are there only 2 3 star sets?

armor i mean

[twilit pewter]

it’s a pretty well optimized even for early access, i wouldn’t say it’s completely stable (i have experienced some crashes) but i’m not running into frame issues unless i’m in a loading zone

[drifting cape]

stars are meaningless

oops

[twilit pewter]

oop wrong reply lol

[drifting cape]

but yea specifically for armor stars dont mean anything

[twilit pewter]

i wouldn’t worry too much about armor, the entire system is getting an update eventually

[slim flax]

cant wait for mounts

[jolly pumice]

dont 3 stars armor get more stats?

[simple birch]

in game chat wont show for me? i was wondering if i need to wait till night time to get into this place for 'Kith of Kings'?

[sly escarp]

Stars = rarity for most items, and mostly impacts what level of Blacksmith you need to craft it, though there is some stats correlation as well

[sly escarp]

To enter the Kith of Kings enclave, defeat the guardian who appears at the entrance at night

[simple birch]

can force night or i have to wait?

[sly escarp]

Gotta wait iirc

There used to be a bug that forced night but think it got patched

[simple birch]

thx for the help

[uneven vessel]

Is there any reason you would want to hold onto more than one type of totem and rune? Or should I just grind the extras up into harmonies?

[lament seal]

runes you only need one copy of each, totems you might want to hold onto three copies since you can equip up to three of the same totem on a weapon

[daring jacinth]

I hold onto a few extra for when trading is implemented, but otherwise I release them for the extra harmony to upgrade

[uneven vessel]

Ah right I vaguely remember that now

[abstract sentinel]

you know what? this happens too often. you can't see them from afar if you didn't put our marker right on top of them

[uneven vessel]

Would be nice if there was an option to release all dupes but no less than 3 each or let you customise how many you want left

[tribal mantle]

can you guys show me the chest where is it?

[slim flax]

I hate these

[candid hazel]

uh its east of entrance of curlail town

[abstract sentinel]

glades is probably best place. undercity has one super nasty layout

[fickle temple]

^

[abstract sentinel]

instance-wise

[fickle temple]

tho glades and undercity quests best for double dipping farming resources

[tribal mantle]

ty

[candid hazel]

you will know entrance by watch towers

[tribal mantle]

can you show me, i can see any chest

can not

[candid hazel]

ok where your arrow is pointing turn left

that go straight until you reach hill that seem familar

[slim flax]

Never catch an animal while transitioning into glades

[drifting cape]

are the neath'uns consistent

[smoky crater]

consistent in what way?

[drifting cape]

i want to speed up farming bear stuff, found a boss down there once but havent been able to since

[jolly pumice]

why i am getting items i already have but now the fragments have vines

[smoky crater]

Bromius's gear is from Kabocha at Wevetwood, not from the Neath'uns

[drifting cape]

no

theres a boss in the neath'uns that drops it too

[hazy zephyr]

Gourdo

[drifting cape]

yea that guy

[smoky crater]

new addition then that i wasn't aware of 👀

has a 30min spawn cooldown tho

[drifting cape]

only been able to find him once

[smoky crater]

only spawns in that one dungeon afaik 👀

[drifting cape]

yea i just thought maybe, easy double dip. but i guess not

[hazy zephyr]

There's a lake just north of thrice bound imp, the entrance to his neathuns is on the south side of the lake

He's a guaranteed spawn as far as I'm aware

[drifting cape]

i'll try that

[severe eagle]

If I have no cuirass equipped and see 90 for defense- 14 armor, 23 magic, 53 stagger, then I equip chest that should add 6, 0, 3, but it adds 6, 0, 7. I end up with 103- 20, 23, 60. Why?

[smoky crater]

that would be a UI bug with that particular chestpiece then possibly

[drifting cape]

ayyy i found him, thanks. not sure its worth it though that place was fun to go through once but its too winding and confusing to farm

[austere trail]

Spend more time there. Learn the tiles. It gets less confusing with more practice

And also don't be afraid to constantly check your map, although simply following the sparrow will also get you through the dungeon.

[quaint tinsel]

i own garren rood, bromius and orengal. are these used to craft the pacts? or do i have them and how do i activate them?

[half talon]

How do I get access to Soulframe?
Sign up: Soulframe.com and be invited via the Wednesday giveaway (2k codes every week)
Purchase a Founder's Pack, which will give you spare codes for your friends.
Watch a dev stream or Envoy Hour via Twitch

On occasion, Envoys will share codes in ⁠the channels here, but we ask that you do not beg.
You can also check social media, Reddit, or streamers who may run giveaways.
Attention: Selling/buying of codes is a violation of Soulframe's Terms of Service. Do not engage with third-party trades.

[reef arrow]

Good afternoon, please help me with advice, I'm trying to find all the totems, there's a mouse and a duck left for the shield.... I only have the shield left.... Can it drop anywhere or should I look north near the boss that drops the shield?

[smoky crater]

anywhere that ducks or mice spawn

[reef arrow]

Is that true? I just already have 100 of each... but none of the ones I need(((

[smoky crater]

as far as i know yes.
the RNG with the totems is a bit wack tho

[reef arrow]

I've already deleted 100 of each of them.

[drifting cape]

double kabocha

[reef arrow]

second is regular mob

[drifting cape]

no

it was 2

[coarse raven]

How fast is support usually?

[frigid spoke]

1 is the wandering version of him. I've has that happen before

[reef arrow]

It's hard to say - I know that they're usually not there from Friday to Monday)))

Did you get 2 mushrooms with a reward?

[drifting cape]

yeah, one of them just.. poof

nah the other one just kinda poofed out of there

[reef arrow]

Most likely he just died - there are often such mobs in the forest

[drifting cape]

no

there was no level

[bitter schooner]

Anyone want a code reach out to me

[drifting cape]

or wait, was that his level there? maybe it was

[patent summit]

it wuz

[sonic adder]

world bosses spawn every 3 hours on your own sandbox right?

[frigid spoke]

30 mins

minus king n sieges

[stable tapir]

So I created a female character... I was sure to check that right before homie bashed my brains. But when I choose my path and everything, I end up getting a male?

[patent summit]

me thought only da dungeon ones were 30 mins

"Reduced the Agari respawn timer from 3 hours to 30 minutes." me found it uwu

[halcyon thicket]

Are you absolutely sure you picked female?

Can you send a screenshot

[stable tapir]

Yeah Gimme a second

[stable tapir]

Wait... its just a buff female XD... I didnt know you could take off the Cuirass.

[royal sage]

Does anyone know if Tethrens "Fellust" ability scales on bow hits or is it purely melee strikes?

[open sail]

Yes it does

Just don’t miss your shots

[half talon]

I'm still missing 2 totems: 1 Rat, 1 Duck. But I will find them!

[open sail]

It also works on magic weapons which can auto track a target

[late stream]

Any known bugs with the Ode'n Moaners faction tales? I destroyed 2 in this glades dungeon so far, but the two on the hill up there are unreachable. and it's not showing any progress after the 2 that i destroyed

guide bird keeps taking me to a dead end wall

[half talon]

You should be able to find another one in the glades--it's a little wonky but should still count

[halcyon thicket]

Are you in the highlighted area in the map

[late stream]

I was, i'll try leaving

it's showing as the right spot on the map

yep now i see the moaner icons on the map, looks like resetting it worked

[full hearth]

You wont find every moaner in the same room for that objective

The highlighted area will change according to moaners you have destroyed

Or atleast, should change.

[arctic cedar]

If I remember correctly you can get to then somehow, just have to find your own way

[full hearth]

There are two types of moaners within glades

Ones you can destroy and ones you cannot

Those pictured above would be the latter kind

[late stream]

well i entered the same instance twice. first time, the moaners took about 2-3x as much damage as normal to destroy, and they weren't giving progress to the objective. and then the last two (pictured above) were impossible to get to. triple checked the whole instance, tried scaling everything, just unreachable and faced away from me so i couldnt use my bow.

after leaving and re-entering, it then showed the icons on the map like normal and each moaner i destroyed progressed the obj. so it feels like the first instance was just bugged

[oblique crow]

so uh

My sword has some punch I guess

even blows away the tree

[smoky crater]

ahyes the volumetric wind strikes again

[crisp plaza]

is the paraagon greatsword worth leveling? it feels slow

[frigid spoke]

Every weapon gives envoy rank so no point in not lvling it.

[smoky crater]

yes. it's a very good weapon

it's slow because it's a greatsword 👀

[crisp plaza]

gotcha, was wondering if the founder Tethran sword was better

[crisp plaza]

ofc ofc lol

[smoky crater]

that sword from the tethren pack is just a regular longsword

[crisp plaza]

Yeah I see

im still getting a feel for the game, idk what alot of things even do yet lol, like the spirit animals you can "tame" i assume theyre passive buffs?

[red kraken]

they can be attached as totems to your weapons for improvements. They can then be upgraded 3 lvls from there. and can be freely swapped around. Not all totems work with all weapons. But there is a decently large variety of them in the world.

[crisp plaza]

I see

[analog chasm]

how much time do you have to wait for the bosse's respawn ?

[frigid spoke]

30 mins

king n sieges are 3 hrs tho

[fierce hearth]

hello

where can I find grynnetongue fungus, does anyone know?

[drifting cape]

kings place

and prob some of the other corropted places

[fierce hearth]

thank you, can you describe the kings place?

[drifting cape]

yeah sorry, mendicant king

SW corrupted place

but yeah there you go

so all the corrupted places

[fierce hearth]

which site is that, I havent seen this info in the wiki I think

[full hearth]

https://wiki.avakot.org/

Do not use Fextralife under any circumstances

Same for the wiki gg, it's no longer maintained.

[buoyant horizon]

Is it still possible to get the circade set?

[drifting cape]

yep!

[finite stone]

Yep! Method is linked on https://wiki.avakot.org/Circade_(Set)

[drifting cape]

i think you only thing you cant get right now is the eve stuff

[finite stone]

yeah and I guess preludes honour / cursed marifold, but those are permanent fomo unlike bita's which will at least come back lol

[drifting cape]

oh no what is that what do i have to feel sad for

[full hearth]

birb

[drifting cape]

oh

meh. you guys can keep it

[finite stone]

https://wiki.avakot.org/Prelude_Honour was a talisman given to players whose accounts got reset (second and last one of those was Oct 2024) so anyone who was waiting for access back then but didn't get access will never be able to get it

It has same stats as Triune, but has a unique ephemera that makes daisies grow in your footsteps

And then https://wiki.avakot.org/Cursed_Marifold is a unique bloom that was given to paragon founders whose purchase was a little slower than others

[hardy flower]

It's the only necklace i'm missing 😭

[drifting cape]

oh... well ok the 2nd part is very cool

[full hearth]

Adds a little spring to your step

[drifting cape]

very cool, well now i am sad. but not too sad

[full hearth]

But yeah, nothing too noticeable.

Statistically it's nothing special either.

1/1/1

[full hearth]

(Triune is a direct upgrade stat wise, Drackore still remembers the old Preludes Honour)

[finite stone]

omg I'm still stuck in those days of yore...

[open sail]

Can you moon steel a talisman?

[full hearth]

Not currently

[drifting cape]

ah yea i was gonna ask

[finite stone]

It was confirmed though dw! It's lower priority than pact and weapon transmog, but hopefully may come this year along with those

[drifting cape]

does dw mean do worry

[open sail]

I wsnt cogah lorcaan plus cool effect

[full hearth]

Moonsteel or no, the birb stays. That's my stance.

[finite stone]

Steve really wanted pact customisation out soon, and then he mentioned weapon transmog specifically for those who got founders and want to use their gear without it getting outclassed

[full hearth]

Virtues be damned

[drifting cape]

i would never take it off yeah

[finite stone]

So once the talisman bestitching arrives you're basically getting a straight up stat boost haha

[halcyon thicket]

Ngl thé cardinal charme looks better

It almost looks like a reskin

[finite stone]

yeah cardinal looks great, it's the one I want to use when we get transmog

[full hearth]

It's considerably larger atleast

[dreamy lintel]

Well. I have a free code for the Warframe Longsword. So make this easy. Warframe Trivia.

What existed before Relics?

[full hearth]

I want to answer even though i have a lot of sword skin codes of my own

[dreamy lintel]

You and I both know them

[full hearth]

[true meteor]

When you buy a Pact from a vendor, do you just buy the crafting recipe for that Pact, or do you just get the Pact?

[drifting cape]

do nnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooooooooooooooot

do noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot

if your talking about avacot

unless you sold a pact and want it back. if youre asking about the 2 from the factions.. im not sure

[orchid gyro]

i believe you just buy the fragment from avakot

also not sure about starter pacts from factions

[winter geode]

You buy the recipe from factions

So you still have to craft them and it takes like 27 hours

[orchid gyro]

ah yea

[full hearth]

What you are buying is a fragment

There is no reason to do so as you're given them through Fables

[orchid gyro]

but also just save your dracs there’s no reason to buy fragments from avakot unless you sell a pact or smth

[full hearth]

They're more of a failsafe in case someone sells their pact for dracs and wants it back

[orchid gyro]

that’s what i said :p

[open sail]

Well by default you only get 3 pact slots. If someone spends there arcs on weapon slots they need to sell pacts to use others.

[hollow mortar]

The one rule of -frame games is never sell your pact/frame. Always buy slots.
-# who knows whether we might get helminth

[last stream]

is there any benefit to reforging more than once other than changing the joinery?

[hollow mortar]

As long as it's the highest level of joinery, and it's the type you want (e.g quicksilver vs the generic), no

I still haven't gotten a quicksilver mora. Those who have them was it from stags or glades?

[drifting cape]

leme see if i have that

[tired sail]

I wouldn't worry too much about blessed, they're getting reworked in ~ 3 weeks

[drifting cape]

i have 2. i think from stags

[open sail]

Just grind faction and buy it from. Kith?

though I did get one from a stag

[sly escarp]

Virtues are, we don't know if blessed are

[dreamy lintel]

Faction Vendors provide a fragment that can be used to craft the Pact. (Alca's Children, Silent Rose, Kith of Kings)

The Camel Shop gives you the Pact Prebuilt alongside a slot for the Pact.

[minor owl]

Cap 100 ?

[native crescent]

Just came back after a long hiatus. Chat doesn't show the global tab anymore, and /g doesn't seem to switch to it like the /? says it should. Am I missing something?

[dreamy lintel]

Check your Social Settings for the different chat channel toggles

[native crescent]

Many thanks. I spent a lot of time in general/region/global before, so I'm surprised it's disabled.

[dreamy lintel]

Also. Bottom of Accessiblity now has toggles for both Crosshair always on and Compass Always on. Both very nice features. I reccomend enabling Compass Always On

[fierce hearth]

do you know where is the key for this?

[dreamy lintel]

Check bags dropped by enemies.

[finite stone]

Yep the cap is 100

[dreamy lintel]

Someone showed me a trick that changed travel for me XD

Going into Eternium Garden and back out puts you right near 2 of the 3 enclave entrances

[finite stone]

Yup it takes you to camp #1

[dreamy lintel]

Very nice and I hope it stays

[minor owl]

ty

[drifting cape]

what is with wolves leveling up

[sly escarp]

What do you mean?

Like, Orengall's Wolves?

[drifting cape]

yea sorry was getting hit

they make that sound though

is it a bug or do they get stronger?

[sly escarp]

Don't believe they do

Unless you add more courage/level up the pact to level up the ability

But that's not a proper level up mechanic

[drifting cape]

hmm yeah. im 90% sure its them making that sound

wonder if anyone else has heard it

its 100% them

[rigid chasm]

Can I access other factions by using wyld pendents?

[arctic herald]

How much aff do i need for each rank of alca's childrens?

[low oriole]

nope, unless wiki's wrong you need exactly the Medallion of Mora/Rose's Bodkin/Sproutfolk Seed

[long cloud]

I just started playing yesterday. How do I play Regatta with a friend?

[rigid chasm]

Me needs drip advice

[keen river]

go to one of the faction hubs, and one of you sit down, the other one can interact with you to invite you to play

[rigid chasm]

This is archery build drip as of rn, I really like how the leggings look but I cant figure out how to mesh them better with the foresty colors I want on the top part

[livid thistle]

erm anyone know how to get off this screen?

it didnt go away after winning

[rigid chasm]

Click?

I think that worked for me

[frozen coral]

what region of the map does mora's kiss spawn?

[wanton plank]

What do people know about spawning the vadagar stag boss ? Location or any prerequisite ?

[blissful sparrow]

It only spawns at night (or special case some 3 stars Sparrow tales last objective)

[wanton plank]

Thank you

[livid thistle]

def tried that

got another one D:

[grizzled yarrow]

dumb question, the starting skill tree.

the title changes of the class when you move around stat points; does it relate to something specific?

"virtures tree"

[frigid spoke]

not really

or at least not now

[crisp plaza]

Is Hilly den quest bugged?

[blissful sparrow]

/unstuck would work on this

[drifting cape]

not to my knowledge. whats wrong? also, are you in co-op?

[crisp plaza]

Yes in co-op, we've found the sproutlings like 3 times now and the quest wont progress

bird keep steering us back to the cave

[drifting cape]

co-op is notoriously buggy with quests

you might have to do it seperately

[tired sail]

Is it trying to point you to Fenn Jotar?

[drifting cape]

hmmm but yea i wonder if it is

[crisp plaza]

Fenn Jotar? Not sure, it keeps taking us to the same cave entrance, and we're told to find the sproutlings, we do so then exit by the well, theres a note at the top of the well telling us to go play against him in the well, after we do all that the quest task never updates

[tired sail]

You are looking for a wall on the right side of the cave when entering from the Slazbrim side.

The hilly den quest is something else unrelated to that.

[drifting cape]

ah yeah ok

[crisp plaza]

oh thats confusing, our bird just takes us through the cave and back out through the well

any chance you could show me where to enter from with a map ss?

[tired sail]

Give me 30s to get a recording of it

[drifting cape]

use your spectral sight

lets you see interactibles

[crisp plaza]

Ive seen and solved the little statue guy asking for a flower

[drifting cape]

its in the cave but outside of the undercity

oh

[crisp plaza]

doesnt seem to do anything

ill try again

[drifting cape]

you selected the right flower?

[crisp plaza]

man

[tired sail]

Didn't know it lit up in soul mode

[drifting cape]

i dont know either

[crisp plaza]

so me and our other friend presented it the flower but the group "leader" didnt..

and that was the whole issue

[drifting cape]

ah yeah, told you. co-ops buggy with quests

it works but sometimes there can be issues

[crisp plaza]

all that and we dont even have the talisman yet aha

nvm its pact based

[tired sail]

You need to farm standing for Sacred Shimmers, the talismans fragments used to change factions come from certain chests.

[crisp plaza]

Ah, I’m Tehran and he’s the mage class so I figured it had to do with that

Since it let me talk to the Fire king fella

[tired sail]

Faction Medallions
Medallion of Mora - Dermak Chests
Sproutfolk Seed - Glades Chests
Rose's Bodkin - Overworld Chests

[crisp plaza]

I see

Ty for the help

[drifting cape]

i often hear cannon fire in the southwest corner of the map, around king

must be one of those cannons? anyone know where

[vernal flint]

next update wqhen?

[jolly sedge]

every time i kill vadagar i need to wait 30 minutes right?

[tired sail]

Next night cycle

Unsure what the cogah interaction is, regular bosses can be killed twice (once at base and once in cogah, with mendicant being bugged currently)

[frigid spoke]

You can get him multiple times if part of a T3

[jolly sedge]

😮

[tired sail]

It does not have a cogah specific drop table, so I don't believe it can be farmed twice within a half hour using cogah potions.

[harsh hinge]

guys anyone have a code? 🥺

[jolly sedge]

can i farm him multiples times or no?

[tired sail]

#envoy-gathering message

[frigid spoke]

yes and no

[jolly sedge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/921106964078022706/1041789553817694238/1CFC6F34-BB31-40F6-AA72-DE250F097A90.gif

[frigid spoke]

only at night or the end part of a t3

[tired sail]

You have to go through a T3 bounty, so the objectives determine how fast you can do it, and RNG

[jolly sedge]

can i farm the gathannan

[tired sail]

Should be part of the boss' drop table

[jolly sedge]

but in T3?

[frigid spoke]

that's the only place the stag shows

er in t3

[jolly sedge]

t3 is mission with 3 stars right?

[frigid spoke]

ya

[jolly sedge]

got it

[frigid spoke]

it's not often but you can get two in a row, but you need to be standing in a certain area for that particular t3 to spawn.

[tired sail]

I thought faction tales bypassed the night spawn restriction on Vadagar.

[frigid spoke]

it does

still needs to point to where it would normally spawn to actual;ly activate

[tired sail]

Oh, I misread what you put earlier.

[jolly sedge]

hmm

[frigid spoke]

it's how I ended up with my gath. One part from the night spawn and one from the t3

[tired sail]

Apparently I still have Eldore in all my polearms too

The crafting requirements for Gath aren't bad, Scrap Iron, Ichor, and Silistyt.

[jolly sedge]

hm

so vadagar spawns in the night?

[frigid spoke]

scroll up a few screens, it's been explained a few times.

[jolly pumice]

i have same thing like i already crafted item but keep aqquiring them, when i kill boss it gives me item i already have in hand\

just what is that for or is there any use like items just start to have some wines

[topaz meteor]

any one have an extra code by chance?

[lean prawn]

Hopefully we can sell fragments and crafted/level items (to other players) later on. There's going to be some kind of trading system but they haven't said much that I've seen about how it'll look.

[fervent fox]

Hello all, what would be a good place to farm brass?

[half coral]

i need help i cant take the items from this guy

[tired sail]

Glades weapon racks and Fort Curlail

[regal shadow]

He's asking you for something, go outside and follow the birb

[half coral]

ooh

[drifting cape]

anyone had trouble uncovering this place before where my marker is?

looked everywhere for the last mote multiple times

[tiny crescent]

dude even with one point into feral dog mom comes to help OFTEN

[tired gust]

is gossamer quartz supposed to be so painful to gather or am I just trying to craft garren rood too early? I have 13 gq and have tried the undercity a few times hoping to find even a little bit more frequent drops but alas.

[livid thistle]

it happened again guys D:

[dire rain]

Tales 3* : find the chest
also chest

[crisp zenith]

Rookie numbers I see there 🤔😂😂

[crisp zenith]

It does happen quite a lot, yeah. Haven't figured out the exact trigger tho. Should be smth like walking towards the shelf when pressing f

[marble summit]

So Tethren's abilities do not scale with virtue except for a 0.003 on 1 (Fellust) from Courage is there any point to go on anything else than courage on tethren then?

[blissful sparrow]

You're right it doesn't make sense to invest on any virtue if you're going on for Tethren build (except if you want to equip other weapons)

[marble summit]

Has anyone tested "Rooted" from the pact arts?

[vagrant kayak]

It increases your stability, sadly a lot of attacks in the game right now will stumble you regardless of stability, which is hopefully changing in a future update

[honest rampart]

any1 plays soulframe on macbook pro?

[tribal mantle]

will soulframe up to 4 players in the future

[vagrant kayak]

No word on if squad sizes are changing

[livid thistle]

ah okay, ill stop then press f

@swift kiln have you not be able to play the game?

[swift kiln]

well no...

It’s hard to be poor. Anyway, it doesn’t matter. I’m sorry for asking for a key. 🙏

[vagrant kayak]

There should be a devstream on the 30th that has invite keys as Twitch Drops, watching that will get you access for free 🙂

[minor owl]

Do you know how to disable the Reaper's shield? (the dog in the Glades)

[fierce hearth]

Hello, I ranked up the Witch and she disappeared, then I found her and get her back to the camp. Now I can craft something called Cogah. How do I trigger the next quest line?

[burnt inlet]

Any idea why some pacts have three stars? ✨ like ones you buy from Avakot or rep vendors. Is there any advantage getting them?

[burnt inlet]

Check messages

[vagrant kayak]

Just a UI quirk, the ones Avakot sells are fragments to re-craft Pacts if you happen to have sold them at any point, the stars in this case have no bearing on Pact power

[burnt inlet]

Thank you! If you re level pacts does it give you more points?

[vagrant kayak]

It does not

[static musk]

You should check Avakot at oro’s wells every so often. Money isn’t used for anything else really.

Are you running undercity or are you running the crypt of circade? The crypt has 0-3 sarcophagus per run. And each has a decent chance at gossamer. And you can do a run through start to end and loop back to the start again in about 5ish minutes.

[tribal mantle]

it is over now, we have to wait next version

[glad wraith]

I got a question related to dungeon exits.
If I go into a specific Dungeon Lets say, this Glades (image), will I always exit at the same exit location or is it random?

[tropic nacelle]

I think the exit is always at the same location

I know the crypt always make you exit at the same spot which is near the entrance so its very easy to farm it for gemstones (I did it like a dozen time yesterday and the exit was always the same spot)

[glad wraith]

alright

[tropic nacelle]

Maybe some are random tho, not sure about it

[glad wraith]

thank you

ill test it

[vagrant kayak]

That's only for the Crypt, the other tilesets have random exits (or rather a selection of exits it chooses from randomly)

[static musk]

That makes sense to me. I was thinking undercity had multiple entrances and exists.

[vagrant kayak]

I actually made a suggestion a while ago to give us the ability to choose where to exit, as a way to get around the map more naturally https://discord.com/channels/998758139405029478/1443539390432411718
I like the random exits, but having the option would be neat

[river pilot]

is flintstroke completely OP?

[sleek urchin]

Hi guys, I just downloaded the game but it says i don't have an invitation to Soulframe Prelude. How do i get one?

[river pilot]

you need an invite key. reddit, twitch, steam. someone who has bought a founder pack can give away keys

or just buy any founder pack ^^

[sleek urchin]

OOH, so that's what they're for

I thought it was some "Support us and get some bling" type thing

[river pilot]

more like how PoE2 handles it

[scenic solar]

Well slowly collecting runes... still wish stuff leveled faster....

[ebon wraith]

for humanoid enemies kinda... but the bow rune is even worse

[river pilot]

didnt see that one yet. im just thinking, compared to these weak thunder strikes of other runes lol

[ebon wraith]

Treefell for greatswords,flintsmoke,torrent(bow) are OP

[vagrant kayak]

Yes

I wouldn't say Treefell is very OP, it's good but not overpowered

Flitsmoke and Torrent though, absolutely

[sleek urchin]

How often are they given out?

[earnest solstice]

Mistgale also really good

[blissful sparrow]

Do you still need a code? hit me up if you need one

[tropic nacelle]

Provided him with one

There is also a topic on the forum dedicated for spare keys if people need to

[twilit lance]

yeah treefell is good but not op

[silent bone]

where can i find spare keys?

ive been waiting for a code for almost 2 weeks now

not a long time ik but long enough to make me look for spare codes 💀

[dire saddle]

Anyone else having trouble interacting with musical totems? I found one in a valley and I cant interact with it

[brittle nacelle]

There's a mega thread on reddit, you can also stalk twitch for channels who bought founders and are giving away their extra keys (they usually put giveaway in the stream name) sometimes people post codes here as well

[latent python]

It's from a reddit post from sometime ago so I don't have credit at hand but this shows the exit locations for dungeons. I'll spoiler tag it incase someone doesnt wanna know.

[silent bone]

I see, thank you!

[umbral willow]

i there just a curious question, once the event that currently ongoing for the sparrows end, can i still craft them if i got the fragments and items or do i need to rush before event ends?

[undone minnow]

Have you gotten a code yet?

[silent bone]

nope

[runic dagger]

@silent bone I DM'ed you about one

[undone minnow]

Stealing my code recipient >:(

[silent bone]

sorry I didn't get your notification ill check

[runic dagger]

@undone minnow I got em first lol 😅

@silent bone check my DM again 🙂

[silent bone]

I do have a friend who's also waiting for a code 🫢

[frigid spoke]

If you have the complete parts you can craft it whenever you want, even if the event is over.

[umbral willow]

thank you very much

[tribal mantle]

why i dont see it in rank 3 alca children

[frigid spoke]

Where did you get the info on its drop?

[tribal mantle]

soulframe wiki

[frigid spoke]

It's a drop from Alca's children T3, not their store. avakot wiki has the latest info, not fextra

[tribal mantle]

a ty

[frigid spoke]

from avakot for cuirass

[full hearth]

Wrong "wiki"

Use https://wiki.avakot.org/

[short stump]

heyhey i was curious since im about to buy a pre order thingy, can i mix meele and ranged combat? like if i take the swordman at the shop can i still later equiq an bow or have both equipped at the same time if things get to close quarter combat?

[river pilot]

classes are not bound by any weapon

and yes you can have a main and off hand weapon

[sleek urchin]

Oh man, is the spirit pact like a wizard or a healer?

[river pilot]

which would the spirit pact be?

[short stump]

ah lovely thy

[river pilot]

i think only oscelda has a group heal

others have group buffs tho

[frigid spoke]

You aren't "locked into any pact. Pick one then earn the others by going to the factions and lvling those up to buy the other pacts.

[sleek urchin]

The green one, with the staff

But i tried it out now and i really liked it

[river pilot]

yeah thats oscelda

be aware, it takes a while to get a new pact (class)

[sleek urchin]

No problem

I think i made the right choice

[river pilot]

oscelda makes the game alot easier with the heal xD

[sleek urchin]

Ya, my main class in D&D are Cleric and Druid, xD

[river pilot]

perfect fit

[sleek urchin]

How does this work by the way?

[worldly pike]

Damage, Duration, Area of Effect (For Skills Only)

[river pilot]

they mostly affect weapon dmg, you can see what weapon has which attunement

and yea, the above ONLY for your skills

[worldly pike]

And yeah, they also affect the amount of damage your weapons can do

[sleek urchin]

Based on weapon type?

[worldly pike]

Each weapon has an affinity towards a virtue

[river pilot]

no, weapons can have any

[worldly pike]

Marked by a Moon, Sun, or whatever the blue one is on weapons

[sleek urchin]

Does this affect stuff such as stamina or health, etc?

[worldly pike]

Just getting more virtue points = hp

[sleek urchin]

I think i'm going to leave it as is

[worldly pike]

Just look at your weapon and max out that virtue

It's not very complicated(Fortunately, or unfortunately, take your pick)

[river pilot]

you main goal is to match your weapon attunement for bonus dmg in ( X) X

[sleek urchin]

Got it, thx guys

[upper pike]

Is there a codex that shows you aviable quests like in warframe?

[sly escarp]

Not currently, no. There's the Fables tab which shows which fables you have completes, and your journal lets you see which you have discovered/started but not completed

[upper pike]

Ok thanks

[slim flax]

Why can I not loot the boss?

[halcyon thicket]

Are you client

[slim flax]

I don't understand

[heavy heart]

When we can test on pS5 ??

[jolly pumice]

did the game got updated?

[slim flax]

yeah there was a short hotfix

[sly escarp]

New hotfix just dropped, yeah

[winged galleon]

So no Torrent FPS Debuff fix?

[sly escarp]

They fixed some elements of it a while ago - are you still seeing persistent arrows in multiplayer?

Or is another part of it causing fps drops?

[open shard]

when refordging does it count towards as leveling the envoy?

[smoky crater]

no

reforging doesn't do anything account level related and only the first time you level up a weapon gives you xp for that

[open shard]

Thank you didnt think it was but just wanted to check

[short stump]

Hey I need a bit of help

[sly escarp]

Hi, what seems to be the issue?

[short stump]

My game crashed in the tutorial right after I got access to my loadout

[sly escarp]

Oh dear! Did restarting the game put you back where you were?

[short stump]

Then I walked for a few steps I met someone who screamed something about thunder and then my game crashed

[smoky crater]

o

[short stump]

Now I spawned somewhere completely different I don’t got any quest marker and don’t know where to go

[sly escarp]

Oh dear.

[smoky crater]

Nimrods powers of electricity affecting things beyond the game, in real life

[short stump]

I feel like the game now kinda skipped the tutorial and I was wondering if I can just start a new game?

[sly escarp]

For the crashes, did you check your GPU usage and drivers?

[short stump]

I couldn’t find the option to just make a new char so I wanted to ask here

[short stump]

Nah it’s fine that’s not my issue

[sly escarp]

Can you press J and check what's in your journal? Hopefully the tutorial quest will be there.

[short stump]

Nope got nothing in there

Already checked
And my map is all cloudy

And if I call my lil bird he just stays with me

[frail sierra]

I think your best bet for that would be to go to support.soulframe.com . It might also be worth verifying and optimizing the files in the game launcher, and then reducing graphics if that doesn't fix it.

[smoky crater]

hm...
try exiting the game, open the launcher, go to the launcher settings and click on "Verify Files" maybe?

[sly escarp]

Map being cloudy is intended, gotta clear it by finding world trees. There's no way to reset your account yourself, so you may wish to reach out to https://support.soulframe.com/

[short stump]

Again I don’t mind but can I not just restart the game? Like make a new character?

[smoky crater]

not atm no

[short stump]

Oh okay

[sly escarp]

If you're having progression issues they'd be in the best position to help you.

[frail sierra]

If anyone can help with that, only support might be able to.

[short stump]

Alright:/

[jolly pumice]

when will they make moonsteel craftable

[smoky crater]

never

[jolly pumice]

thats hella dissapointing

[sly escarp]

Hard to say, maybe never. It's a cosmetic consumable, and the game is free, so they may hold it back as a way to monetise the game.

[smoky crater]

considering it's bought with premium currency, you might be able to get some from special events or stuff in the future tho i guess

[sly escarp]

They might add some free ways to get it in limited amounts eventually though, or at least that's the hope

[full hearth]

One easy place would be milestones in daily login rewards

[jolly pumice]

yeah thats what i mean

[full hearth]

[lament seal]

now's the best time to give feedback on SF's monetization

[sly escarp]

Get 3 every 100 days XD

[full hearth]

Ez

[jolly pumice]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-happy-money-squidward-mr-krabs-gif-27599658

love warcraft transmog

[sly escarp]

End of the day, Soulframe is free, and their monetization seems like it will be different from Warframe as the transmog system works very differently from Warframe skins. So the Thread being arcs only may end up an unfortunate casualty of needing to keep paying their staff and keep the lights on. But hopefully they give some freebies out once the game systems are more fleshed out.

[halcyon thicket]

Steve said free moonsteal thread will be given with some transmog system coming

i remember him saying he'll give some for free to "make the medicine go down" lol

[drifting cape]

yea i remember that

[sly escarp]

Sweet

[river pilot]

so you think they will mainly sell pacts or just the wyld versions of them?

[halcyon thicket]

like in game shop?

for arcs?

[river pilot]

yeah

[fierce hearth]

I changed from sirin to oscelda and I'm trying to change my faction as well. I changed my stats to spirit as well and bought the founders pack for the items and what not

still it says you do not bear the talisman for this faction?

what's the talisman

[lament seal]

Sproutfolk Seed iirc, you can get the blueprint and the materials for it from your current faction once you're ranked up enough

[wise grove]

more likely than not, you'll already have the fragments randomly looted by the time you rank up enough to buy the crafting material from your faction

[reef arrow]

my own guide )))

[wise grove]

ottet

[fierce hearth]

thank you

do I need to change my weapons every time they hit 30 like Warframe?

to level up my character

[wise grove]

yep

same for pacts as well

[reef arrow]

pacts to

[wise grove]

you also get mr from finding the history motes for named locations

[fierce hearth]

thanks again

[tropic nacelle]

Leveling a weapon to 30 gives you 5 points in the skill tree of that weapon category, so the more weapons you level, the more you get powerful using the same kind of weapons

Also leveling weapons and pacts also increase your player rank (no mastery test in Soulframe so it's easy to miss it) which in turn gives you more points to allows between the three stats of the game (to be confirmed)

[crisp plaza]

How do shields work? Are they a primary weapon alone or?
And what class/pact do they sit best with?

[wise grove]

shields is just a primary weapon, you get a sword+board

[crisp plaza]

Ah that makes sense

[wise grove]

only ones rn are courage and grace scaling, so the courage one will be easier to work in with the more overpowered courage pacts like tethren/bromius, but stacking courage is good on p much every pact regardless of archetype

the current stat scaling/balance has been said to be changing in the next major update though, so don't follow that too close to heart

[crisp plaza]

Are tethren and bonus considered the strongest pacts then?

[fierce hearth]

Mora's hand rules imo

[wise grove]

tethren is, but play what's fun not what's good

[tropic nacelle]

You can also change the stat the weapon scales on with some items so follow your heart

[thin jewel]

Hello o/
I pressed "Reply Fable", but I don't want that. Is there away to go back to "normal"?

[wise grove]

everything will melt everything p much, and tethren is lowkey boring af because it's just personal buffs with little flair

[fierce hearth]

I like the screams the mobs make when dyng by my fires

[crisp plaza]

I’m already tethren but I plan on swapping and testing out the ones I unlock later

[wise grove]

the animal pacts are all really fun

[tropic nacelle]

So far my favorite pacts are Sirin and Garren Rood

[fierce hearth]

I like weapon independent everything is as well

[tropic nacelle]

Ode Tempest didn't click with me and Oscelda was okayish but not that fun either (except the birbs, love them)

[wise grove]

I'd like oscelda more if their first ability worked properly in multiplayer

[crisp plaza]

I can’t wait to unlock the other pacts, I’m so intrigued by this game

[wise grove]

I think Sirin is dramatically overhated by a lot of folks, it's one of my favorites

[civic thunder]

impossible to loot this chest unless we might be able to fly

[wise grove]

literally stunlocking entire armies of trash mobs to execute on CD

[crisp plaza]

I think sirin probably suffers from the stealth archer effect, stealth archers are so strong in so many games that if one comes out that isn’t busted, people won’t sit well with it
Like games such as Skyrim and Baldurs gate, archers are nuts

[lament seal]

#1438224825113120788

[wise grove]

plus on any humanoid bosses, you get a free riposte with glamour

[crisp plaza]

Can you try the other unlockable pacts before crafting or buying them?

[wise grove]

nop

[halcyon thicket]

Which ones

[crisp plaza]

Aw man

[halcyon thicket]

You can 3 pacts

Try*

[crisp plaza]

Everything other than the starting 3

[halcyon thicket]

Ah no

[wise grove]

you won't be disappointed with any of the animal pacts tbh. The most boring faction pact is probably Ode

[frozen frigate]

at what point do you get the wolf you can ride?

[tropic nacelle]

SoonTM

[crisp plaza]

I get that, I’m just tempted to spend for one instead of waiting and it’d be nice to test em before pulling that trigger

[tropic nacelle]

Not in game actually

[wise grove]

for now we must settle with BEING the wolf.

[civic thunder]

thanks for that posted. 🙂

[tropic nacelle]

You can morph into a wolf using the wolf pact tho

[sleek urchin]

So if i complete a pact with him, its like changing classes?

[tropic nacelle]

Completing his quest grants you the blueprint for his pact that you have to craft to unlock, and yes, it changes your three abilities, passive and skill tree on the pact

[winter geode]

You can still use whatever weapons you want

[sleek urchin]

Nice, i can't wait to see what the other pacts are

[tropic nacelle]

They are all very nice

[buoyant horizon]

Does anyone else have any issues with the parchment quests at the gates? annoyingly i cant clip it rn, but i tend to kill the mob, pick up the parchment, and then the quest doesn't complete

[wise grove]

I've had issues with the gate ones despawning the ode intel as well, or just not spawning it when killed

[half talon]

Hmm I'd throw something in #1438224825113120788 if it's not currently already posted

[buoyant horizon]

Ok, I had considered putting it there but I had no evidence to support it

[fierce hearth]

What is the King everyone mentioning in the game chat

what is the best rune for throwing knifes does aynone know?

[lament seal]

Mendicant King, one of the Agari (bosses) you can find in the overworld: https://wiki.avakot.org/The_Mendicant_King

[lament seal]

As in flyblades? Both runes work pretty evenly well imo

[winter geode]

is there a way to bypass the "sparrow tale complete" screen?

[half talon]

I've personally been enjoying the one that shoots out projectiles. It makes me think of fireworks...

[winter geode]

I'm about to lose my mind

[sleek urchin]

Is it possible to change appearance at some point?

[smoky crater]

you can change your hair color, (hair style partly, only like 2 choices that actually work atm), skin color and eye color by replaying the Warsongs fable

[half talon]

As for the rest of the appearance, soon...We expect in the next big update.

[bold minnow]

I've just booted the game up on my partner's laptop for the first time and am experiencing a strange bug where the camera is going a million miles per hour and I can't find any way to fix it. Any one have a fix for this?

[halcyon thicket]

Can u record it

@bold minnow

[tired sail]

Could it be what you set your mouse dpi to, too high when combined with the game's default mouse sensitivity?

[vagrant kayak]

Spinning around you mean? Just to make sure, you don't have a controller connected that may have its right thumbstick being pressed on?

[bold minnow]

Just sending the video through now. It's running on Linux POP_OS, but runs perfectly fine on my own laptop.

[vagrant kayak]

Since you mentioned laptop I'd also disable the trackpad if it has one

[tired sail]

If you're using a controller, it could be steam converting your input to Mouse input, assuming you have steam running in the background.

[bold minnow]

Not using a controller, just the mouse and keyboard

It's taking a while to send on Discord. I've uploaded the video to Reddit though https://www.reddit.com/r/SoulFrame/s/wB0ZfTySuY

[bold minnow]

I'll give that a go!

[frigid spoke]

turn mouse sensitivity in game to 5

[bold minnow]

Just tried it - doesn't change anything unfortunately.

[dreamy canyon]

for the T3 mission to destroy the Ode's Moansers in the Glades, am I the only one who can sometimes find no way to get up to the Moansers placed on high grounds?

[winter geode]

Those are just for show

There's other ones that are marked on the map

[tired sail]

I don't use linux, but I'm seeing people with similar issues use gamescope to fix high mouse sensitivity issues in games if it's os related.

[crisp plaza]

Not really sure what to do atm, im just running around doing the fire king spirit things, are these basically just for xp?

[tired sail]

Faction standing, used to rank up a fraction/purchase items from their stores like colour palettes, potion recipes, (fragments might be a little bugged, they dissapear if you own a fragment, so not very useful for items that take multiple fragments to craft).

[crisp plaza]

I see, i feel i should be doing something else atm but not sure what, i just finished the bear quest

[white igloo]

Remind me the *Standing XP gain for each bounty type, or is it based on which region we do them at

I've been running them in NE but I feel like I barely make progress

[tired sail]

There are 8 tracked quests in total, if you're done all of them, then it's collecting unique items from faction stores, crafting and mastering weapons/pacts, collecting runes and totems. A lot of the game is sandbox-y once you complete the story content right now because of the pre-alpha state, and we don't really have a gameplay loop yet.

Other than that, bug reports and feedback

[crisp plaza]

as in the fables right?

[tired sail]

Ya, completed story quests appear in fables.

[crisp plaza]

I've done 7 fables but not seeing an 8th

[tired sail]

Do you see the Shewolf Snared?

[crisp plaza]

I do not

[tired sail]

Head east of Fort Curlail and find a camp with a red balloon, loot the chest there and read the note.

[crisp plaza]

Thanks

[bold minnow]

Managed to fix the issue. I just had to type PROTON_ENABLE_NVAPI=1 %command% into the steam launch options for Soulframe. Thanks for the help guys.

[silent gorge]

i faught a boss with my friend and the only one who can claim the loot on the ground is 1

is it the new patch ?

just 1 who can interact with the mushroom

[halcyon thicket]

It's a bug ye, u can pick it up when u leave squad

[silent gorge]

OOH

[covert badge]

greatswords are rad!!! all 2 of them

[red kraken]

Theres 3 as of now but the 3rd is the Paragon so doesn't necessarily count

[covert badge]

[amber nebula]

What the hell is this game? I saw a small video showing some magic and it looked so dope. I need to know more!!!

[rough forge]

You are a [spoiler], left in a land with talking avacados and angry-looking people. Try to find new weapons so you can more effectively bully the angry people into giving you their stuff.

[full hearth]

Siding with nature against space invaders out to grab natural resources

[rough forge]

^worst description award? I'm auditioning.

[amber nebula]

The art style is mad crazy awesome lol I have investigate this game here

[wanton saffron]

How are u guys playing the soulframe when its not come out yet?

[rough forge]

If you've ever heard of Warframe, it's by the same developers, but not the same game. Focus on individual combat and customization of your gear.

[full hearth]

Preludes has been running for over two years at this point

With access one can play

[rough forge]

If not troll question, then check pinned messages in #envoy-gathering for a description of how to get an access key.

[amber nebula]

Ahh so it’s another one of the single player / coop type games?

[rough forge]

Single to 3-player game, can jump in with friends at any point

[amber nebula]

Darn thought maybe this was a full blown MMORPG

[full hearth]

Yep. You can meet others in hub areas and team up with others at your leisure in the overworld

[wanton saffron]

No joke. I just saa a video on tiktok about the game. Looked it up and saa it wasent relesed yet. Thats why i asked

[full hearth]

Preludes is basically a testing bench for what will be Soulframe

[wanton saffron]

Ooh. Okey 🙂

[rough forge]

Still hoping for a basic matchmaking at some point for things like faction grind or cogah or something

[full hearth]

I'd be surprised if we don't see a more robust matchmaking later down the line.

[rough forge]

We know it'll eventually have matchmaking, but it would be cool to implement an option to walk into a hub, and walk out into a matchmaking queue, just as an excuse to play with randoms.

[full hearth]

If i were to pitch something, maybe something similar to the settings in Warframe.

Set it to "Open" and it'll try to matchmake every time you enter into a dungeon / accept a tale

Set it to "Private" and it'll be just like it is now.

[crisp plaza]

Okay so i rescued the wolf from her chains, and now i hear her howling but i dont see anything in spectral sight

[rough forge]

Do you want the spoiler answer or the general one?
General answer: You've now 'started' the wolf quest. Continue playing to get more progress.

[crisp plaza]

Keep playing as in just killing enemies?

[rough forge]

I'd recommend staying in the general area you found the wolf at, personally.

[crisp plaza]

ah okay

[rough forge]

'general area' meaning don't cross the map

[still cypress]

how do i get access to the game homies

[rough forge]

by reading the pinned message in #envoy-gathering

[finite stone]

#envoy-gathering message

[true meteor]

Do Totems that reference "Attacks" apply to both Primary (Light?) and Heavy Attacks?

[rough forge]

without testing it: I think both?

[true meteor]

I'm wondering cuz of the Armour-related ones
Not sure if I'd rather have reducing Armour on attack or bypassing Armour on heavy attack

[runic dagger]

Armor reducing would apply to all attacks. I use those more often.

[late stream]

did they remove the free daily cloudquell from the nightfold? near verminia

[rough forge]

to my knowledge, the "reduces armor by X on attacks" is a single effect, non-stacking, but procs on either light or heavy

[full hearth]

Yes it's been gone for a while now

[late stream]

got it, thanks

[hollow mortar]

So as for cogah viable builds I know and have tried:

1. Bow torrent + any pact
2. SnS Durglint + Flyblade + Garren
3. Any weapon + Tethren fellust

Are there any others that are stand out?

Also is there any pact that can force a smite or a smite-like proc on an unsmitable enemy (e.g mockery boss)?

[regal shadow]

No pact can force proc a smite I don't think, orengall's 3 increases smite chance across the board, but if the enemy is immune to smite, doesn't do anything

[steep night]

did you guys know that you lose your cogah status when you enter your faction station ?

[sleek urchin]

How do sieges work? I killed all the bosses and enemies simply respawn

Which the AI kinda just stood still

[rough forge]

The purpose of a siege is to burn the red balloon at the top. If you haven't burned the balloon, you haven't finished the siege

[sleek urchin]

how do i do that

The game didnt let me when i pressed F on the balloon

[steep night]

you need a fired torch

[rough forge]

Do you have fire hands or something? It generally takes fire to burn a balloon. A torch is a good option...

[runic dagger]

Cut the Ballon string buy throwing your weapon or casting a spell through the string maybe?

[sleek urchin]

I don't have a torch

[steep night]

🙂 @bob 🙂

[sleek urchin]

Not a cutting weapon (wizard)

How great

[rough forge]

If you want the full walkthrough, the wiki has that. I was trying to give hints without just spelling out the steps

[pearl hill]

Why aren't there any updates coming or even being talked about? Its been radio silence since winter break

[steep night]

open your eyes and look around you

[sleek urchin]

The fire also has an option but again, i don't have a torch

[rough forge]

Since Thawtide dropped last month? And a devstream coming up in a week or so announcing the new virtue overhaul?

[drifting cape]

you gotta grab a torch

from the torch pile of torches

[charred glen]

Curious on your thoughts about joinery’s. I got my first blessed by Mora and wanted to know if I should wait until the virtues are updated before using

[drifting cape]

you might want to wait yea you wont be waiting too long anyways

[rough forge]

Joineries aren't permenent (you can always override it) so do you think you'll get some good use out of a blessed by mora before the overhaul? It's kinda up to how much you want to play with it.