envoy-gathering

[raven marsh]

so theres a stock tier

[frosty ore]

not even beating around the bush on that

[heady ice]

got it

[rare socket]

i gues stock gives 0-1 tempers

[heavy chasm]

AI took my job. Now I have more time to play soulframe until my apt kicks me out

[frosty ore]

fr what else are we supposed to do lmao

[analog plover]

im glad my job cant be replaced by AI until it gets put on wheels and can locate+grab multiple things in the store

[frosty ore]

https://tenor.com/view/akakichi-no-eleven-bro-bad-news-i've-got-bad-news-for-you-hand-on-shoulder-gif-4737126791591033318

they're already working on something for that

just a heads up

[analog plover]

yeah dont remind me!!!

[sturdy geyser]

Ok so u can get 9 tempers cause Steve said the higher the tier the more u can get

[wanton cloak]

has anyone seen any hints of when the Soulframe Merch orders from November will ship?

[frosty ore]

the mythical 9 temper Orst that once belonged to the fabled harold

we must recover it one way or another

priority mission

[wanton cloak]

im already bored of trying to get anything higher than officer 4 Temper

[random prism]

I have a sovereign 5 as my best roll.

Which is jank cus it's 2 tiers above officer lol.

So it's a low roll.

Actually no that's mid.

Just a lot of overlap.

[dapper gorge]

This cogah run hates me

Just gettin stock and military ranks

[strong galleon]

beside the bird and fly rat are more guide's you can get?

[random prism]

I still hate tier overlap. They could've just made it like, 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8 with one less tier.

Having a tier roll lower than a version of lesser rarity is jank.

[sturdy geyser]

I think the time for high tier maces farm was pre hotfix lol

[random prism]

As that's the only thing that defines the tiers.

[dapper gorge]

Ain't there also a damage bump per tier?

[sturdy geyser]

Yes

Oh what, trading is coming with p15 at world trees

[dapper gorge]

Can we agree that the island is the main trade hub?

[sturdy geyser]

Seems I'm gonna miss a huge update

[sturdy geyser]

Perchance

[rare socket]

like skin wise or different animal wise?

[raven marsh]

got one

i officially have the worst orst

[sturdy geyser]

Lol

[strong galleon]

different animal wise ?

[rare socket]

like having a rat or a bird as your guide

[strong galleon]

yep

[dapper gorge]

Welcome to the shadowzone

[rare socket]

u can get a Cardinal skin from the Thawtide event, tho that was a while ago

[cursive atlas]

I have fallen to Earth from heavans grace. Can you hear the Trumpets of Gabriel sound?

a distant owo in the sky cries in pain

[rare socket]

tho, theres also a sparrow skin if u do a two-factor authentication in the website

[strong galleon]

I see thanks

what boss job drops the Lyke-Wake I having had any luck getting the fragments of it any were yet?

[rare socket]

Mendicant Knights in the Rovgot Ruins

[sharp beacon]

Was there a not lame reason they lowered the orst drop rate

[runic siren]

it's worse than that, too, since now you can get versions w/o any upgrades 💀

[sharp beacon]

What the hell

[runic siren]

in theory I get it because having the normal enemies drop a bunch of middling / low tier ones is a fast way to fill up your inventory

[sharp beacon]

What kind of change is that. This is why we need to see reasonings in these damn patchnotes what is this change supposed to accomplish

[fervent bloom]

the fact that assisted driving cars don't need a license to drive your car, eventually there will be so many lawsuits on this that no one will do that business.

[runic siren]

but then... why even ship it this way in the first place w/o the ability to fuse 'em together

[strong galleon]

I killed Mendicant Knights in the Rovgot Ruins lot I still haven't seen the chest plate or the the Lyke-Wake to drop at. all I have helmet and leggings from him.

[sharp beacon]

But even the agari are dropped military grade weapons so this change means nothing

[upper swan]

interesting

[runic siren]

yeah, I don't know if enemy tier has any kind of impact on the rank of the weapon

[hexed sequoia]

Agari now droping stock version like 3-4 in a row

[upper swan]

does anyone know why part of the regalia hood is clipping

[sharp beacon]

This cannot be…

[fervent bloom]

saw someone walk out of a store and call their car, yes I am in ontario canada too, and the car drove on the wrong side of the road.

[sharp beacon]

I understand there needs to be a grind of some kind but I thought the idea of this system was supposed to be exciting drops I don’t exactly feel excitement seeing stock weapons that do nothing.

[fervent bloom]

other day, maybe weeks ago, gps voice was so annoying kept saying the same thing over and over again because the gps was trying to force my wife to drive the most expensive route and she drove until it changed its mind, but it kept talking in circles later as well.

[frosty ore]

swear convenience will be the death of 99% of all humanity.
the remaining 1% will without a doubt have planned it all

[craggy fossil]

wooh

[runic siren]

good 'ol fashion one step forward, three steps back

[rare socket]

Mendicant King in **Stroaic **drops the mendicant king gear, while the **Knights **in the Rovgot Ruins in New Viscii drop the Lyke-Wake.

[strong galleon]

I give a try again when I load back in later on thank you cloudkracker for the inf.👍🏻

[queen kite]

hi

[random prism]

People complained about crafting everything and crafting time this and that, despite it being straight from WF, so instead most of it will be replaced with a system that's much more engaging and will take at least five times as long to get anything good out of it.

The monkey's paw curls.

Grind is more engaging than waiting on a timer.

[sharp beacon]

At least im doing more than literally turning the game off till it’s done like i did for duelo

[random prism]

I've never had any issue with finding something else to do in-game during any timer.

Something I am not afforded when you have to participate in a grind every step of the way.

Now it is just one painstaking task at a time, instead of being able to multitask.

[eager grove]

Guys a user dmd today from this server and wanted to do the infinity kingdom scam

[random prism]

Lmao.

[sharp beacon]

Well erm actually your farming standing and materials while getting weapons ☝️ 🤓

[random prism]

No messages at all in this discord too so very obviously just here to phish.

That's like red flag 1. If you get a random DM, check their message history in your shared discord.

If none, then it's a scam or a bot.

Immediately dismiss them.

[eager grove]

Yeah i checked that before i asked why did the scammer added me

[random prism]

They're there solely to hunt.

[heavy chasm]

They promoting a mobile game in here.... nowhere is safe Lmaoooo

[viral hearth]

racoon pact when

[random prism]

I wouldn't know how to report a very obvious phishing account, modmail? Just informing the mods?

[astral storm]

So you mean to tell me... That we can see GHOSTS of people at tree's now? 4 players in party? and they added a inspect window??? and my character looks CUTE?!

[random prism]

At the very least report them on discord too.

[raven marsh]

a whencher

[eager grove]

I reported the user i dont know how to contact the mods tho

[dapper gorge]

I mean, it's a public community

Report and move on is probably the play

[astral storm]

ABSOLUTE CINNAMON

these two things make the game sooo much more enjoyable now wow.

[eager grove]

Yeah but i think the user is still in this server

[random prism]

Should be reported to both discord and the server, as they're in this server.

Given that I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be happy about an obvious phishing account hanging around DMing people.

[astral storm]

You can contact a mod probably =v

[eager grove]

How do i contact them?

[astral storm]

sure Howl or Naito wouldnt mind

[still crown]

anyone have a space code sorry for asking

[analog plover]

i dont know why but it feels like our envoys have a lazy eye or our eyes dont sit directly forward

could just be me

[astral storm]

Its also just the angle

[still crown]

https://tenor.com/view/refreshing-pepsi-delicious-sounds-good-gif-5798014

[simple mason]

Please put that kind of info in a #discord-mod-mail thanks

[astral storm]

Yeah that would help best I think

[wide tendon]

hello! 👋 just discovered the game like 2 minutes ago and i'm obsessed

[astral storm]

Welcome!

[wanton cloak]

good soup

[rare socket]

gruel barrel

[heavy chasm]

The communal gruel barrel

[lone summit]

no other game has made me take this many screenshots

[heavy chasm]

Free cam is going to do numbers when it drops

[frosty ore]

oh hey subnautica 2 just came out

about time too

[manic sonnet]

is this max? i have all weapons and motes i think but feel like ive seen people with a bit more

[wanton cloak]

think u might be missing 1

[manic sonnet]

i went down list of weapons and have them all hmm

[wanton cloak]

and i do not have the fey pact xp

[manic sonnet]

no one does they removed that

[wanton cloak]

THEY DID?!?

i need to pay attentin more

[manic sonnet]

yeah in p14 i think

[lone summit]

fey pact mastery xp would be crazy

i miss fey pact

[manic sonnet]

do the journal animal/enemy entries count for a bit?

[wanton cloak]

i dont hink so?

i didnt think to look at that

[manic sonnet]

i sold one single weapon for slots early on but it was mastered...maybe i just relevel it cuz it got lost somewhere idk

[random prism]

Make sure to have all the location motes, including the 9 in rovgot ruins.

[sharp beacon]

Wait was it even intentional its not in the patchnotes that this changed

[random prism]

Those make up a substantial part of your MR.

[manic sonnet]

ohh theres motes in rovgot?

[random prism]

Weapons leveled, pacts leveled, and motes found are all of your MR.

[random prism]

Yes, 9 of them, so a good chunk of xp.

[manic sonnet]

i have all the overworld motes

location names

[dapper gorge]

Such a pain to gather them all

[random prism]

Oh yeah they need to fix the spawn delay, that's pure BS.

[manic sonnet]

thank you

[random prism]

The fact that they take minutes to spawn after you enter is awful and needs to be fixed.

[manic sonnet]

do the other dungeons have them? i dont even remember

[random prism]

Nope, Rovgot is the first one.

[manic sonnet]

no wonder i missed em

[haughty urchin]

has anyone run across a bear that looks like bromius and gives you a booster of either virtues or affinity for a decent period of time? i can't seem to find anything about it in the wiki

[manic sonnet]

yeah, can be a bunch of different story animools

[haughty urchin]

ahhh might be why i can't track it down then

if it looks like different ones

does it just show up randomly?

[manic sonnet]

seems like theres set spots they can appear in but not usually

[haughty urchin]

thanks

[manic sonnet]

i think buffs last 23 hours irl so dont need to see them very often

[spiral crag]

How do you save the caged animals in the collector bounty?

[sterile wraith]

they are not really for saving. It supposed to be the cage where you can put in any thunderstones you collected and blow up the collector itself

you essentially free the animals by exchanging it with a thunderstone

[lusty laurel]

What is envoy gathering

[sterile wraith]

and i don't even know where you can get one these days

[spiral crag]

thats what i was thinking i dont remember any way to get one aside from the specific mission to blow up the tank

[sterile wraith]

apparently they can spawn at bracken brae sometimes?

a thunderstone that is just laying there to be collected

[frosty ore]

instructions unclear: The animals are nowhere to be seen and the cage is all over the place.

i think i did something wrong idk

[random prism]

It's a partially removed interaction yeah, I just ignore it.

[sturdy geyser]

that's from very old preludes

[random prism]

Thunderstones used to be generically lootable, now they're only from a votive objective and they do not persist when you log out.

So it'll be incredibly rare to find one and keep it until a collector.

I expect the cage to just get removed eventually.

[sterile wraith]

Yeah but you can still do it no?

[random prism]

The interaction apparently never worked well.

[sturdy geyser]

Nope

[sterile wraith]

Damn bro the thunderstones were such a cool alternative path for the collector

[somber portal]

I killed a boss and now I have a fae whispering in my ear about the Cogah, wtf?

[frosty ore]

do it

[somber portal]

No recipe to make it

[frosty ore]

step one: find brewer

step two: fight bear

[somber portal]

Yeah just about to say "nevermind, verminia is on vacation"

[frosty ore]

tbf i'd want a vacation as well after fighting a bear

[somber portal]

So where do I go? Where i found her the first time?

[frosty ore]

tho, you wouldn't disturb someone on vacation would you?

would you?

[somber portal]

Oh i definitly would, I have some armour dye to make

[frosty ore]

i see.
may your employers call you in at the worst possible times.

⚡

[somber portal]

I work with teenagers, I believe that is punishment enough

[frosty ore]

now you can work with them even more.

win win

[analog plover]

so true bestie, so true lol

[somber portal]

I think i recall where verminia was

Nope

[pliant lintel]

hey, anyone know the kind of level increase the coop does?

[sterile wraith]

Gonna wait for P15 when the full weapon system gets added… cause rn it is a hell hole

[somber portal]

https://tenor.com/view/reading-sign-cant-stop-me-no-one-can-stop-me-gif-13921932

"A witch withdrawn: Do Not Find Verminia"

[frosty ore]

then dont.

[somber portal]

I will

[hexed sequoia]

4 stock, 2 militar, awesome hotfix (?)

[heady plinth]

yo whats up with cogah rune drop chances 😭 im getting nothin

tryna get treefell and the hollowing. 6 mendicant kings, 6 vellas, 6 wraith of wastes. 0 runes

[somber portal]

Where even is mendicant king

[pine mulch]

I hope we get a way to modify the animations on weapons.

I would LOVE the new heavy weapon spin attack on the Paragon

[random prism]

For parry experts, note that riposte is not working on Orst, sadly.

[wanton cloak]

is there a fix coming for Tales soft locking the game?

[random prism]

You can get the deflect but you cannot use the attack, you'll just light attack.

This makes me very sad.

[oblique pawn]

Was playing 3 player Mirifuir just after 14.5 dropped, level 40 enemies seemed to be around level 60

[random prism]

Another thing broken by a seemingly unrelated hotfix it seems.

[oblique pawn]

So about a 50% gain at 3 player

[pliant lintel]

holy molly, that's a LOT

[oblique pawn]

Possibly 25% per player, so a +75% level gain?

[random prism]

Eh, for MP scaling? It's still tame.

You gain more benefit per player than they gain from HP even if it was +100% per player.

[oblique pawn]

The problem we noticed is that armour scaled as well, so it was a bit of a slog to kill anything.

[random prism]

Because of synergy and all that.

[pliant lintel]

i can see that being reversed kinda quick. not it actually makes helping new players worse

[random prism]

Armor scaling is a bit of an issue.

[oblique pawn]

Think that they might want to reduce armor scaling from MP and increase health scaling.

Or make it a MP buff to enemies rather than a level difference.

[random prism]

HP scaling is fine, even at high amounts. Damage scaling also manageable. Flat armor scaling?

You're gonna hit a point where nobody does damage lol.

Another way flat DR is just... bad.

[pliant lintel]

i think that's the right call, now it kinda jsut makes enemies hit like trucks jsut because you wanted to play with a frend

[pine mulch]

Speeeeen
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/741727212629393533/1504641278695047322/Soulframe_2026-05-15_01-22-33.mp4?ex=6a07b9e3&is=6a066863&hm=fddbba18014defbe0422f4b4681217bc223c59fbe645bb0046b681c702a56565&

[somber portal]

What's better for cogah, pure magic or pure melee

[oblique pawn]

Yeah, since they intentionally changed levels to impact armour and create unkillable enemies to encourage players to level up...having that be what scales seems like a bit of a problem long term

[pine mulch]

Ideally anything that keeps you alive the best

[oblique pawn]

Melee typically. Magick weapon damage tends to fall off fairly quickly.

[pliant lintel]

but yeah, this is lowkey the opposite of what they should be doing for mp, it should be palyers being equalized to the lowest player, not enemies geiing stronger the more people are around XD

[random prism]

Again, the root of all this is the flat DR system.

Cus it is very unfriendly to scaling.

It is a wall that gradually raises until it literally just denies you.

[oblique pawn]

We could see a hybrid, but it definitely felt like they changed to flat DR for a reason.

[random prism]

They swapped from no DR to flat DR.

[oblique pawn]

Mainly that with percent reduction players were taking a rank 0 wulder as a starting player and soloing Mendi King with it

[random prism]

If they have a reason for flat in particular, I will argue that that reason is bad.

[pliant lintel]

flat DR can scale well if your damage also scale with your level, like it would rn without the attunement cap

[oblique pawn]

Really? Then they must have had HELLA health scaling

[misty veldt]

going smooth, when i get to the stage i will rig it to fold into a axe(my idea is the heavy/rune attack is the bow being shot)
this games gun blade

[oblique pawn]

Would say a hybrid system might be good. Have a threshold where below you deal no damage, then above that it's just percent reduction.

[pliant lintel]

maybe. one thing for sure, that's like the worse scaling the studio has kinda ever made XD

[oblique pawn]

Having a completely new player dunk on an endgame boss definitely felt weird at the time imo.

[random prism]

Flat DR heavily incentivizes numbers over skill, and with scaling like that you're putting hard pressure onto people to conform to optimal loadouts.

I do not like this.

[misty veldt]

what change is this?

[random prism]

MP scaling isn't playing nice with the current flat DR system.

Cogah also doesn't play nice with it, some weapon types outright falling off.

[rare socket]

so like a double-sided axe, where the blades fold out as the arms of a crossbow?

[misty veldt]

mp?

[random prism]

Hell weapons, like dual blades, fall off even outside of Cogah and are just kind of bad.

[misty veldt]

ye

[random prism]

Multiplayer.

[rare socket]

peak

[oblique pawn]

Perhaps, but putting a limit on what can be killed isn't necessarily bad either.

[misty veldt]

well, enemies lowkey get ganked with just 3 or 2 players right now. 4 playyers is VERY extreme for the current enemies so extreme number seems reasonable. might need tweaked

[oblique pawn]

Again, could see a system where there is some sort of floor, either Envoy Rank or Total Virtue based over damage

But yeah as is...some weapons just do not work

[rare socket]

actually might make for a cool trick weapon, if we ever get something like that

[random prism]

I mean, if a player can skill through content while being vastly outgunned numerically, why is that bad?

The fact that they'd be trashed if they got hit is wall enough.

There's no reason to set up a system to block it outright at the detriment to people who play normally.

[oblique pawn]

Perhaps.

[random prism]

It is not a problem that needs a solution cus it isn't a problem.

You do not need a floor like that.

If a mad lad can do it, let them.

Skill expression is good.

[oblique pawn]

Perhaps. But it does remove some incentive from levelling up and make it more clear when you need to.

[misty veldt]

well if i make it good enough it might just get added you never know
im inspired by blood borne mostly so if i could get them to make them flick the bow open that would be cool af
if it does get added im convincing someone to let me continue making trick weapons

[random prism]

The incentive is getting trashed on if you don't have the skill to do it anyway, and I think enemies taking way too long to kill and doing way too much damage is incentive enough to go get better numbers.

[oblique pawn]

As is, levels don't communicate a break point of "you should be able to take this guy" very well. Which, upon saying it, is a completely different problem that could be solved seperately.

[random prism]

Yeah.

[heady plinth]

how come reforging my basker's wrest doesnt show any dmg increase?

[misty veldt]

thats just wrong, bc cause they then have to play perfectly always at all times
play any competitive game right now and tell me how fun that is

[rare socket]

depending on the size of the weapon, i could see it transform into either a hatchet -> crossbow, or halberd -> speargun

[oblique pawn]

Scroll down

Discussion prompted further thoughts

[misty veldt]

lowkey id just copy the cleaver and "soulframeify" it

[oblique pawn]

The issue we actually were thinking was a lack of clarity on what enemies a player could be expected to handle reasonably as they progressed

[misty veldt]

that was my fav weapon

[oblique pawn]

The level system doesn't do that job very well.

[unique dome]

is there some way to disable the magic auto-locking?
besides aiming

[oblique pawn]

Not currently, no

[unique dome]

dang, well thank ya

[pliant lintel]

what if eneemies jsut scaled around the total virtues a player has 😏

[oblique pawn]

It's meant as the "key playstyle feature" of magick weapons apparently. A more casual but less strong playstyle.

[oblique pawn]

Let's not do this again pls

We know we already disagree

And we're very tired of back and forth atm

[unique dome]

i see i see, i just wish it didn't prioritize breakables is the main thing, thanks for the info though

[pliant lintel]

i'm jsut teasing

but also kinda saying that it is a better way than jsut level, just sayin

[oblique pawn]

Honestly same. The priority seems to break every few patches

[misty veldt]

variety + scaling
witcher, any souls game, cult of the lamb, deep rock galactic, ultrakill, doom, space marine 1-2, etc
all understood that

[oblique pawn]

They fixed it a couple times and the issue just came back

[unique dome]

i see, well hopin' for a toggle eventually

[oblique pawn]

Cool, so maybe we should be introducing heavy mace enemies only in certain areas? Or having enemies wear different armour based on the point at which the player is expected to be taking them on? Both of those seem interesting

[unique dome]

i don't mind just aiming, only thing currently is my charged rune attacks may obliterate a nearby box

[pliant lintel]

don't emntion scaling, you might attact me

[oblique pawn]

Right now the only metric of difference between 2 ode camps is a number above their heads

So at any given point in levelling up and improving you gotta just learn what number seems to die okay now.

Introducing a bit more of enemy tiers and visual to help inform might def help.

[pliant lintel]

also even skyrim did scaling, it's jsut that better of a system

[misty veldt]

no we just need more stuff then the like
5 distinct types of enemies we consistently fight
needing more ways to deal with them then just run at them and attack them
like idk, the hover board daemons in space marine 2. something like that would be cool in soulframe requiring a thown melee or something to knock them off first. if u dont kill them in time they get back on the board and pester u with magic

[oblique pawn]

Having the low level zones be patrolled by grunts only definitely means you want to think about when you start taking on the big armored guy with a deer head. Especially if they guarded certain gates.

So to go to the areas those Elites roam with their squads of footsoldiers you gotta take on the guardian.

Would make the gates feel a bit more important than just "the arbitrary door we have to open" as well.

[misty veldt]

the game is already balanced in zones

removing the heavies and putting them else where would just make early game boring rn

[oblique pawn]

Yep. We're saying taking some enemy spawns out of some zones, and adding new enemies in higher level zones, would also help.

Or make certain level groups of enemies wear different uniforms

Red could be levels meant to be fought below MR 10 for example

And you have Blue guys for MR 10-15 at some gates to prove yourself against

Then beyond the gate is blue guys

[misty veldt]

i dont think anyone likes this form of scaling, unless its PURELY suggestive and effect ZERO stats

[hardy oyster]

Oh that is sick, they should hire you as an artist tbh

[oblique pawn]

It's not really scaling? It's just communicating what the player is meant to be able to tackle

[misty veldt]

true, i need a modeling job

[misty veldt]

yeah but other games take this and make it so u cant engage with the enemies at all, i think eso did it tho i dont remember

[oblique pawn]

As is the only info is a number, which scales wildly differently between factions and can only really help by throwing yourself at enemies until you find one you can't take.

We're not saying make it so a mr 1 player can't kill a blue guy

But the blue uniform means you're in for one heckuva fight

[unique dome]

i think when i started i just attacked whatever i ran into til i killed it, or died

[oblique pawn]

Just a model changeup to help communicate difficulty of the enemy.

[willow lagoon]

Question about thr sword paragon in current patch, how does it fare against other greatswords in the long run? I been hearing a lot of mixed opinions on it when I was last on about 2 or 3 months back

[misty veldt]

to me it just sounds like more work for the guys making textures and scripts when all u gotta do is keep the number above their head

[oblique pawn]

Maybe. We just find the number doesn't communicate very much effectively.

[misty veldt]

its the best sword heavy without question

[sharp beacon]

Its very strong but worse than the purity by a not irrelevant amount

[modern crest]

There aren't any reprocussions for death if you aren't involved in a siege. If the player goes in a direction and gets their arse handed to them, they can learn to go in another direction.

You want to color code all the enemies by difficulty? Differing player skill makes those numbers mean different things.

[oblique pawn]

Purity does more damage, but Paragon is more build flexible

[sharp beacon]

You can still use the paragon to great success

[willow lagoon]

Gotcha. Any word on using another sword as transmog? Like using purity but using paragon as a skin for it? Any plans for that?

[oblique pawn]

Definitely! But as is levels feel so wildly out of alignment and arbitrary to a certain degree.

[sharp beacon]

I think they said something about that a while agi

Idk when its coming tho and theres not been much on it

Considering we are trying to get through an entire system change in the drops I doubt its any time soon

But what do i know it could drop in a hotfix tomorrow

[oblique pawn]

It feels like the number means different things for different enemies, and that lack of consistency is a bit frustrating to us.

[willow lagoon]

Oooh, thanks

[oblique pawn]

Anyways, it was just an idea. If they wanted to try and unify the levels of factions a bit it might help. A level 20 Mendicant Knight and level 20 Ode Soldier definitely don't feel equivalent atm.

[misty veldt]

like i said variety, more enemy types that require different strats to fight is the way to go
cause rn everything is just dodge/parry, attack, ded. a marauder from doom, or a stealth assassin ode similar to the lictors in 40k would go hard in this game

if you just go down the numbers route it becomes slower warframe, same power creep, same content, new story

[oblique pawn]

This sounds generally similar to what we suggested earlier, with removing Elites from the very early zones and having them spawn in more mid zones, then adding new enemies to higher level zones.

Basically the type of enemy you see in the area communicates the challenge.

And possibly having those enemies at the gates lets you test and prove yourself before wandering in.

[misty veldt]

no the current enemy list isnt varied enough rn, removing enemies from any point of the game is bad for it
just add more thats all it needs

[oblique pawn]

Fair, though we feel starting players with only grunts is fine maybe that should be only for the tutorial.

Then elites when out in the map after, then more enemies from there.

[misty veldt]

mayber for like, the first few minutes yeah. but at most 10 minutes tops

[oblique pawn]

Actually, wait. How many overworld Ode unit types are there even? We got swords, dual axes, dual knives, mace and shield, caster/healer, Elite Mace, Elite Greatsword, Elite Shield, archer...that seems like a decent start?

Maybe swapping out some of those for new enemies, like the dual knives for an assassin with a long knife that is invisible except through spectral sight, instead of just adding to the pool? Make them feel more like "better" versions.

[misty veldt]

yeah but how you engage with all of them is the same
run up to them
kill them

the only exception is the healer
but only barely, bc you notice it once it heals someone then you run at it and kill it

[oblique pawn]

Not always! The shield guys sometimes you have to wait and dodge a bit. But yeah we get your point.

[misty veldt]

dog ima be real with you, i continue attacking them anyway to build stagger

it does nothing but slow the kill

[oblique pawn]

But would say, if you just took that pile and added, the enemy lists get a bit bloated, and as you said some of those enemies maybe don't need to exist in higher level areas?

[candid pawn]

They could add active defense to the shield units. Perhaps they block between you and some squishy units, or shield charge

[oblique pawn]

So, what about replacing

[misty veldt]

no i never said that, current list wont feel bloated bc like i said. they all feel the same

[oblique pawn]

Change out the elites, maybe mace elite is swapped for one with firsts that smashes the ground if you get close.

Yeah, keep some as basic fodder the same.

But some of these feel like they could be in some zones then have others taking up their "role" in a more unique way elsewhere.

[misty veldt]

all CURRENT enemies feel the same moving them replacing does nothing. leave current enemies as is bc they are all the same. it will just make the enemies look less varied in low level zones if u do
adding a lictor to the game for example would cause you to pause, wait for the ambush and attempt a parry or dodge, you are forced to engage with the enemy in a meaniful way
or if you add a marauder, a enemy practically as dangerous as a boss damage wise. and is WAY faster then anything else. it would cause you to engage it in a 1v1 almost

[oblique pawn]

Sorry, thought the point was adding new enemies that need to be approached more cautiously.

What does removing a basic fodder enemy from spawning in higher level areas when the new enemy is added harm here?

[misty veldt]

not really its a beta, caution isnt as needed
if it was (de would have not changed the virtues the way they did this patch)

[oblique pawn]

No, more cautiously by the player

They need to not just be mindlessly charged at, yes?

[rare socket]

i do like that floating enemy u proposed

[oblique pawn]

So what does removing a fodder enemy when that enemy is added to spawn tables impact?

Presumably these enemies would be spawning in higher level areas only, yeah?

[misty veldt]

it makes your enemies look less varied
and fodder enemies are what make special enemies like im suggesting a actual threat, 1 on 1 nothing short of a boss will kill a player

[rare socket]

imagine a flying sinecure that uses a blimp-pack to float in the air, attacking with ranged projectiles, u gotta pop his balloon with a pricise throw to ground em

[oblique pawn]

We're not saying remove all fodder. But less variety isn't inherently bad for higher level areas? Making it so the enemy with two daggers can't spawn at the same time as marauders imo makes Marauders feel like the advanced version of the dagger guys, and helps make it feel more like progression.

[misty veldt]

dagger guys?

i dont remember dagger using ode

[oblique pawn]

Certain ode enemies spawn that look like archers but carry daggers

[misty veldt]

or sinecure

[oblique pawn]

They're fast and can throw the daggers at you

They don's spawn super often in overworld

But they can

They are usually found in the Glades

They're hard to parry and usually you need to dodge due to their rapid strikes.

Or just beat them to death in 3 hits.

[misty veldt]

ah ok ik which 1 u mean
that variety maybe be bad the first time you see say a marauder
but after that you need the variety to keep the challenge
also the dagger guys suffer from the same problem as every other enemy in this game, you run at it and kill it. nothing else

[ornate dagger]

Hello, how long does it take to validate our account after registering on the site? (because I still can't download the game)

[oblique pawn]

But! If marauders attack fast and hit hard, similar to the role these guys were trying for and new players might be used to them doing, the Marauder then feels like a more lethal version of them. It means the player can carry some strategies of the "weaker" fodder version and it feels like they broke out the advanced assassins because you're a threat, so the weaker ones got left home.

[misty veldt]

lowkey i just face tank them and kill them if they even can attack before then

[rare socket]

they're in the glades

they look like elite archers with the hairy heads

[oblique pawn]

It basically lets you learn a basic role or strategy an enemy uses early when fighting fodder, then train and adapt it for the "advanced" version that's mote mechanically complex

And by removing that enemy from the area, it communicates to players to try that strategy.

Most low level players, a grunt enemy is still something with strategy for a while

[misty veldt]

the marauder im suggesting will in no way feel like anything in the game currently

[oblique pawn]

This lets them learn that and advance that skillz instead of it atrophying when they can just face tank the hits.

[oblique pawn]

We're using it as an example.

[misty veldt]

i dont think so
that just sounds like more of the same with more steps

are you a dev perchance? i would love to actually help create new enemies that forces engagement. if its the actual models or just designs

[oblique pawn]

We'll just need to agree to disagree then. Imo letting players learn strategies then apply them in a more advanced form seems like a good way of teaching skills.

[candid pawn]

Each enemy should have its own quirk, other than a handful of "fodder" enemies.

[misty veldt]

that just waters down the gameplay and leaves no room for variety
and is currently why all enemies including most bosses feel the same rn

[oblique pawn]

Dagger enemies can't be parried effectively, teaching early players to dodge those kinds of attacks. Then, replace with an enemy who also is best defended against by dodging, but up the stakes.

[random prism]

Certainly the lighting of all time.

My eyes.

[candid pawn]

I think there should be an enemy that can run faster than the player, or at least catch a fleeing player. If you break off to chase down a healer or archer, they can get you. Perhaps the ode pact grapple?

[rare socket]

i'd like chip in with the designs, ifs it ok

[random prism]

None of the mods are connected to DE.

[oblique pawn]

Dev but not a DE dev

I work in games but not for the company.

[misty veldt]

ok ima be real with you, nobody engages with them like that and ill get on rn to prove it

[candid pawn]

I assume based on the maestra carma fights, the ai can use parrys and stuff just like the player. Maybe make the dual sickle ode able to parry certain player attacks

[random prism]

That and no company this big is gonna accept that kinda help because of legal vagueness, that's like ultra indie stuff.

Submitting a design will in fact make them less likely to use anything like it.

[oblique pawn]

That would be cool!

Teach the player to sometimes not get up close.

[oblique pawn]

Personally did early on.

Had to learn how fodder worked. Still have the muscle memory for some of the dodge and parry timing.

But, nowadays it is mostly just chop em to death.

[random prism]

From the getgo to now I have just spaced through combat. It is actually not often that I dodge or block.

[oblique pawn]

Our power level grew faster than they did, so it's more effective to just hammer away. Which is part of what we feel elite variants would add.

[random prism]

I just walk backwards to keep at distance and use lunge to engage, repeat.

[misty veldt]

im almost finished with everything and i had to really think to remember which enemy you were talking about bc they are all so similar

[rare socket]

what bout making kicks more useful perhaps?
like for breaking enemies' guards

[random prism]

I more often block ranged attacks than I block melee.

Cus I can't exactly space those.

But you can dance through this entire game by getting spacing down and having good footwork.

No dodging or blocking really needed most of the time.

Just preemptive avoidance and knowing the precise distance of your lunge.

[oblique pawn]

True, which imo is a bit of a shame. Nothing challenges you on those skills much.

Enemies that can't be beaten easily by a certain strategy makes them a challenge for players using that strategy

Encourages trying new ones.

An enemy that closes the gap rapidly for a single heavy strike, for instance.

[random prism]

The problem is this game likes using numbers, and forcing a certain reaction to an enemy gets dicey fast.

[oblique pawn]

Easy to dodge or parry, not easy to keep distance on

[random prism]

You can have an enemy autohit you, for instance, unless you dodge, cannot be spaced.

And this is fine with one of them.

[oblique pawn]

Maybe an advanced version of the Mace elite?

[random prism]

2? 3? Combined with a crowd of enemies?

It can overlap such that you cannot avoid it.

Which becomes outright unfair.

[oblique pawn]

Agreed, forcing 1 reaction isn't helpful

[nova spade]

Is the Rune interface bugged?

It shows I am missing runes when I have all of them

[oblique pawn]

But making an enemy good against a single strategy means you learn to switch it up when needed.

[random prism]

Also, unrelated question, but does Orst always crackle or only when you have the voltaic temper.

[oblique pawn]

An enemy that excels in closing distance keeps the "back up and throw" from being universally effective, but could still be beated by dodges, parries, or just hammering a bit.

[random prism]

If the latter, that's pretty neat.

[misty veldt]

ok this enemy is so rare apparently why would changing it even effect a special type enemy like im suggesting
theres like zero in this glades dungeon

[oblique pawn]

We're basically saying, use the grunts to teach the basic skills, then use the new enemy variants to test those skills.

Grunts already fill a role

[random prism]

Okay can confirm, Orst only crackles if you have Galvanic Strike.

[oblique pawn]

And some can't be defended in certain ways

Or at least defending that way is less effective

[random prism]

Also, one more thing, why is this called Galvanic Strike?

Galvanic and Voltaic are literally synonymous.

They have 0 difference in meaning, two words for the same thing.

They could've just called it Voltaic Strike.

[oblique pawn]

Taking it up a notch with a new enemy meant to test your skills seems like a solid follow up.

[rare socket]

only with voltaic

[oblique pawn]

Teach, test, challenge.

Grunts can teach by showing you a strategy an enemy uses, then they are tested by elite enemies.

[misty veldt]

ok even then, nothing challenges those skill in the game rn

[oblique pawn]

Potentially bosses could be developed for those skills as a more final challenge.

[misty veldt]

like
at all

[oblique pawn]

Agreed!

[misty veldt]

and all those skill are is pressing shift
holding W and right mouse

and parrying

NOTHING else

[oblique pawn]

Cool! So that's why we add enemies that can't just be beaten that way.

Perhaps an enemy who's immune except when striking, for example

Tests your ability to parry or dodge to get damage in the window after they strike.

[misty veldt]

you said thats a bad idea

https://tenor.com/view/charlie-kirk-iron-man-kirk-ironman-gif-9318029842837750053

[oblique pawn]

We already have an enemy that teaches "don't flail wildly" in the shield grunt

Can they be beaten that way? Yes.

Is it the most effective? Probably not

So an enemy that then tests your ability to use other strategies further by making using a given strategy even.less effective.

[random prism]

Enter, the running charged heavy, now that you can charge them.

Which is still a mix up.

[oblique pawn]

Now, you have to show some amount of ability to avoid a hit while baiting one.

[oblique pawn]

That would work too!

[nova spade]

Is there a way to exit Cogah mode?

[oblique pawn]

Maybe a fully charged heavy can stun their shield briefly

[random prism]

Dying or logging out.

[oblique pawn]

Die or log out

[random prism]

Oh it does, that was my point.

[nova spade]

Ughhhhh

[random prism]

Charged heavies of any kind have always broken shields.

[misty veldt]

it rewards you for doing so

[random prism]

It's why I hardly ever kick.

Both disable block.

[misty veldt]

you build stagger on it for no risk

[random prism]

One does a lot of damage, the other almost none.

[misty veldt]

flailing on it wildly is actually encouraged

[random prism]

I wouldn't say encouraged.

[oblique pawn]

Maybe add a shield bash if they're getting hit repeatedly.

[random prism]

It wastes time when you're alone, you can kill them much faster if you break it via kick or charged hit.

[digital quest]

Hi guys, I'm trying to find crypt keys, I know that they are obtained by killing certain enemies and I always see the key drop on the ground and pick it up. When I opened the inventory the key is not there and when I go to the crypt I cannot open it. Does anyone know what it could be?

[random prism]

And when it's not alone, you waste time while other enemies hit you.

[oblique pawn]

Plus, it's often faster to personally just bait an attack then kill in the opening

[random prism]

So the shield guys do provide meaningful variety.

It's just that any single enemy, when fought alone, does not provide any amount of difficulty.

Right now, SF leans towards numbers of bodies to provide difficulty.

Anything caught alone is taken care of by virtually any strategy with ease.

[oblique pawn]

So, we have enemies that teach basic skills by limiting a single strategy's efficacy. They can be overcome regardless, but there is a small friction players can learn early

Then, ramp it up with elites that take it a step further

An elite enemy that is immune to just being hit repeatedly.

[rare socket]

the could be the punishmenst for wailing on em while their shields are up
high stagger shield bash

[misty veldt]

not really

[oblique pawn]

You have to heavy, to parry, or specter strike.

This then tests the lesson from earlier: it's not always best to just strike wildly.

[random prism]

Hue? Bonking the shield for like 5 or more hits vs kicking it and killing it in two, or a charged heavy and potentially killing it outright.

Maybe a cleanup strike after to finish them off.

[rare socket]

what about kicking? any way to make that useful

[misty veldt]

that just is attenuation

[oblique pawn]

No, not attenuation.

An enemy with an active Galvanic shield, for example

[misty veldt]

ok attenuation thats leading into full immunity

[random prism]

Pacts that have special kick functions are good, like Rood's can be used to engage cus the range is massive, or Tempest's grapple. Base kick is doodoo, doesn't provide any real advantage that charging up a heavy won't.

[arctic dock]

Hey guys, wassup

[random prism]

Time vs results, it's a waste of time.

[oblique pawn]

Who has slow, wide swings that can be parried or dodged. Kicks or heavies can short their shield by knocking them back.

Basically, you are now forced out of your "default* strategy

And have to use a skill you were encouraged to learn earlier in the game

Adding enemies that force a break from different strategies then means you diversify your skills.

[rare socket]

i was thinking of having kicks be a counter to enemy heavy attacks, if u tweak it a bit
like how parrying counters normal enemy attacks
kicks could counter enemy heavy attacks perhaps

[random prism]

Parries already do that with a skill, or just dodging.

[sharp beacon]

The problem is we have a skill that lets us parry heavys

[misty veldt]

it just sounds like more of the same and nothing new to actually challenge the player
its called "challenge" for a reason
it just sounds like you want every enemy to be slowly grown into to remove any challenge

[oblique pawn]

That's what we think would be cool, is using the grunts to teach, then, in higher level areas, letting the player feel progression by challenging them on a skill level, as opposed to numerically.

[sharp beacon]

If that was removed id actually be cool with kicks countering them

Cus rn kicks dont do much of anything unless your the goat ode tempest

[oblique pawn]

Just dropping a new element on the player without warning doesn't always lead to challenge, especially if the player adjusts to the new introduction.

[misty veldt]

wait, did we just agree?

[sharp beacon]

About what

[misty veldt]

https://tenor.com/view/long-tears-gif-11087877242190144149

[rare socket]

yeah i was thinking of that too
kinda boring if everythig is countered with parrying

[random prism]

Rood's funny headbutt has massive range, so it can be used to rush archers and stuff.

It has a special interaction if you're soft locked onto a target.

You'll just keep going and rush them lol.

[sharp beacon]

I mean you can also just roll at them, I suppose I haven’t done that yet tho I should try that out.

[random prism]

It's very funny.

[sharp beacon]

Parry is strong and should be but I do think kicks need to have a place in the game

[oblique pawn]

We think challenging a player's existing skills rather than simply just having them learn new ones leads to them growing more. Could new skills be added, sure. But if they are added in the elite areas those again become "teach* enemies for that new skill.

[misty veldt]

if they adjust they lived up to the challenge, and all your suggested adjustments just invlove growing the player into the same stuff with higher numbers

[random prism]

You can close instantly using Rood's kick at about this distance.

You're just suddenly beside them.

And it takes less time than a grapple to use.

[sharp beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/taking-notes-notes-person-sport-rrddiinn48-gif-641993959076681918

[oblique pawn]

Who said higher numbers? It's gently poking to try something else, then heavily pushing you to use something else, using different mechanics.

[sharp beacon]

Interesting

[oblique pawn]

That's not just numbers.

[pine mulch]

How do you increase levels in Cogah?
Enemies seem to be stuck at around Levels 40-42

[random prism]

Kill Agari.

[sharp beacon]

I need to remember this stuff when I play the other pacts

[random prism]

Level goes up every time you do.

[pine mulch]

oh, I thought killing anything increased it

[oblique pawn]

They are using the same fundamental skills in a way that can overcome a greater obstacle.

[random prism]

Nah, just world and dungeon bosses.

[sharp beacon]

I play sirin too much

[random prism]

Which is why all the world bosses are marked in Cogah.

If you look at the map.

[misty veldt]

that would just be increasing numbers

[oblique pawn]

No, it's adding new mechanics that further limit the effectiveness of a strategy.

[sharp beacon]

They should start marking dungeon bosses and let dungons be marked in cogah

[random prism]

Sirin is like the weakest pact right now, since Tempest got buffed.

[oblique pawn]

It being more time consuming to beat repeatedly, vs beating on them repeatedly being of no effect.

[sharp beacon]

I know

[oblique pawn]

That's not a number difference.

[misty veldt]

tempest was stronger before hand

[sharp beacon]

It just needs its bugs fixed and for every enemy to be able to be snuck

[misty veldt]

https://tenor.com/view/average-conversation-in-this-server-discord-server-donowall-ignored-gif-2054677438560113125

[sharp beacon]

And maybe glamor to move faster

[oblique pawn]

We're explaining how it isn't a number difference, just requiring a higher expression of the same skillsets.

There is a difference

An equivalent example might be a 1 block jump vs a 3 block jump in mario

Same skillset, but one requires knowing more and using it more effectively.

[misty veldt]

block jump?

[random prism]

When it was broken? Yes. But 14.5 improved the new version a lot.

[sharp beacon]

Can I be allowed to fly in glamor please

[random prism]

It is now a very solid pact. Without being laughably broken.

[rare socket]

how would that work?

[misty veldt]

no just 14

[sharp beacon]

#bringbackthemachinegun

[misty veldt]

idk ask them

[vagrant wigeon]

sirin was the goat when you could loot enemies mid combat and they would drop extra loot after killing that was a great time to use sirin but the devs took sirin out in the back and killed it

[oblique pawn]

Classic mario games used blocks as away to build levels and measure distance.

[random prism]

No, 14.5.

[oblique pawn]

1 block? Pretty easy, any tap of the jump button usually works

[random prism]

Its abilities no longer turn off against bosses.

[oblique pawn]

3? Might require holding jump to jump higher and jumping close to the edge.

[sharp beacon]

He was saying before the buff it was better than sirin

[misty veldt]

before 14.5 it was better

sirin was never good

[sharp beacon]

Which I dont agree with but it is what it is

[oblique pawn]

A 1 block jump teaches a player what jumping is and how it works.

A 3 block jump tests their skill and knowledge around jumping.

[random prism]

You are not comprehending what I am saying. From 14 to 14.5, Tempest got a straight, objective buff. Some time before then, when it had a 4x damage multi that destroyed the world, yes, it was stronger, and needing a nerf.

I am saying that the new, stagger-focused version has now been improved enough to be considered decent.

From a buff it got in 14.5.

[sharp beacon]

Your misunderstanding what he was saying bro

He said ode tempest in p14 before the buff was better than sirin

[misty veldt]

im saying that all versions of tempest is better then sirin, sirin is just flawed design wise

[random prism]

I was never arguing that though, I was comparing Tempest to itself.

[oblique pawn]

Sirin worked fine when the taunt actually worked imo

[sharp beacon]

Its still workable but trick of the light needs to be fixed for sure

[random prism]

And Tempest achieved extraordinarily little before the buff, as it literally only worked on mooks. All of its arcanics were legit nonfunctional against any boss enemy.

[sharp beacon]

Idk why it hasnt been yet

[oblique pawn]

Without, it lost a big tool for what it tries to do

[random prism]

Which is... pretty bad. At least Sirin can force a boss into the unaware state.

Which combos with the Grace bonus pretty damn good.

But that's... about all it does.

[sharp beacon]

And sometimes maybe possibly sneak attack someone

In glamour

But yes thats about it

[random prism]

But Sirin did have boss utility when Tempest did not have any.

[oblique pawn]

Yeah, it used to be great for grouping and buying distance

[random prism]

Now Tempest works against bosses, making it near objectively better.

[sharp beacon]

Its very funny how one of its passives got completely invalidated by the orlick stuff

[misty veldt]

because the grace focused thing struggled against bosses
pre nerf tempest could still clear trash enemies fast, tank a extra hit for free and had cc even if it was bad

[oblique pawn]

Sirin isn't great against bosses, but don't think it was ever meant to be. It's a CC pact, which unfortunately lost its grouping/AOE tool

3 to position. 2 to CC and AoE. 1 to defend if you got caught.

Without the 2, it doesn't really fill its niche anymore.

[sharp beacon]

Glamour absolutely needs to be faster than what it is

It also needs to allow for more range of movement how is a butterfly gonna get stuck behind a 2 foot fence

[random prism]

I'm of the opinion that a pact should never be hard countered by any one mechanic. They should play differently, but never just have nothing to contribute to a situation. Thus, every pact should have something that helps them against boss enemies. Sirin has this a little in being able to stagger and force unaware, but it does need its distraction back.

Soft counters are fine, they can be better or worse at some things.

But a hard counter, in any situation, is never fun design.

To just be told no.

Which is what it felt like they were doing to Tempest before this buff.

[oblique pawn]

It's an illusion

Yiu're not actually becoming a butterfly

A Glamour is a false appearance.

[random prism]

Yeah, it's on the tin, that's what a glamour is.

Yeh, that.

Better than becoming invisible and losing track of yourself.

But that's essentially what it's replacing.

[sharp beacon]

Ive been tricked and lied to my dream of becoming a beautiful blue butterfly has all been for nought

[random prism]

Lmao.

[sharp beacon]

What has this world come to

Damn you ode and your tricks

[gray crypt]

i have a friend trying to play this but where do i get the invite code to send him?

it says i got some when i bought the founders pack but i never bought that so

[sharp beacon]

Are you a founder trying to give him one

[oblique pawn]

Usually from your account management page on the website if you have any

[sharp beacon]

Oh its in your founders benefits

[oblique pawn]

If you didn't get Founders you might not have any

[sharp beacon]

Oh yeah if you arent a founder you dont have any but they can get one pretty easily

[gray crypt]

ahh damn

oh well, thank you though

[oblique pawn]

If you got the weekly sendout you got 4 to email

So, that could be an option depending on how they got access

[sharp beacon]

Oh I actually didnt know that

Has that always been the case

[gray crypt]

i got access from another friend when the prelude dropped.

[oblique pawn]

Yeah, except the Tennocon wave

[oblique pawn]

Then you wouldn't have any most likely.

[sharp beacon]

Darn

[pine mulch]

What level do enemies need to be (or what recommended level range) to drop Legendary Orst-III?

[sharp beacon]

Levels don’t affect the drop rate

[pine mulch]

Apparently it effects the Tempers though

[oblique pawn]

But, you can get one by purchasing founders, or watching an Envoy Hour/Devstream with a linked account.

[sharp beacon]

You are beholden to the full wrath of rng

Oh wiw

[oblique pawn]

That...sounds like it might be confirmation bias tbh?

[sharp beacon]

I wish they would tell us

[pine mulch]

idunno, I spent a few days solo without cogah and never got a single weapon with 4 tempers
Chugged Cogah and easily got two Orst-III's with 4 tempers.

[sharp beacon]

Ive gotten like 15 with 4 tempers killing stuff on a bridge

Idt cogah or levels have anything to do with it

[random prism]

Most of my officers have had 4 and I've never touched cogah.

[sharp beacon]

I will test it

Tomorrow

[somber portal]

Did my first solo cogah and I got nothing of note :(

I have an orst with 6 tempers I got of a regular heavy sinecure

[spiral crag]

THE FEYFOLK NOW HAVE LITTLE HOUSES

I love this so much theyre so cute

[random prism]

I do not believe the sproutfolk are fey, lore-wise, but very neat.

They seem to be living in their own walls.

[spiral crag]

i love how the younger ones hang on the walls like fruit

[surreal coral]

Hi i just got the game

[spiral crag]

Sproutfolk technically are a creation of fey, so theyre not fey

[spiral crag]

Welcome!

[surreal coral]

sup

[spiral crag]

this server is for feedback tracking and bug reporting, so if you have any questions or bugs to report check the feedback forums and if someone has already reported them

[nimble sorrel]

Is there any way to make the glow from the mendicant king helmet red?

[spiral crag]

also if you have any issues feel free to ask here

[random prism]

Yeah it's like the omen-beasts not being fey, all fey are magical but not everything magical is fey.

And the sproutfolk were just plants risen into sapience by Alora.

[spiral crag]

Imagine RGB lights on the medicant king helmet

[surreal coral]

does this game support controller or do i just have to get comfy with keyboard

[nimble sorrel]

Dang, I didn't know if there was some sort of energy or emissive color option I was missing

[nimble sorrel]

I play exclusively on controller

[surreal coral]

W

[random prism]

I would normally but this game has ranged play very consistently, even with melee.

Given that throwing is a pretty regularly-used mechanic. I like being able to hit stuff.

Thus, keyboard and mouse.

[nimble sorrel]

Honestly the aiming even with controller feels nice

[spiral crag]

I like that they have specific settings for deadzone control

[random prism]

With accurate free-aim, I can aim a knife throw such that it skims past a small crowd and headshots the archer behind them.

There are so many things there that go wrong when using aim assist.

[nimble sorrel]

I've done the same throwing the paragon sword with a controller?

I usually aim for the healer though, they drive me nuts

[random prism]

You cannot tell me that aim assist has 0 issue snapping to a head your reticle is too close to when aiming past them.

The assist cannot read your exact intention.

Especially when trying to arc a shot.

[nimble sorrel]

Not really, I havent had much issue with it, what I have had an issue with is the overall focus system when I'm trying to run past someone

[spiral crag]

Whenever im trying to smite someone but it so happens that there is a bunny near me and i pull out the flute

[random prism]

Oh yeah, charming just needs to be disabled when you're counted as in-combat.

[spiral crag]

this has been happening constantly and it annoys me too much

[random prism]

That's aggravating.

[spiral crag]

if they can disable nightfold during combat they can disable charming too

[somber portal]

Agreed, its infuriating beyond comprehension

[random prism]

Especially since it doesn't even treat them as equal targets. It's not like 'oh my screen was closer to the animal than my smite target, so if I move it directly onto the smite target it'll work'.

No, the animal outright overrides the smite on the priority list.

If it is in range at all, it will bar you from smiting because it will take priority.

The angle just does not matter.

[iron socket]

How does Garrens rune recharge on heal work since only 3 runes have duration now?

[random prism]

I... don't know actually.

It may be nonfunctional. Again. Nothing new there I guess lol.

That passive has a history of doing nothing.

[iron socket]

I've been testing and I can not figure out what it does I haven't tried with Smoke Treefell or Durglen but I assume it functions the same of those

Smite duration from rat totems as far as I can tell don't do anything either unless you're using the duration runes aswell

[rare socket]

Garren' rune?

[iron socket]

Healheart recharges runes when you you receive any form of healing. It used to be good for rune builds but since the rune changes I can't figure out what it does if anything at all

[random prism]

Most likely nothing at all for now.

Until they change it again.

[rare socket]

Speaking of Pacts
What if Werewalker was similar to ulfruns descent?

[iron socket]

Real love hate relationship with the rune changes

[surreal coral]

What arcs for?

[rare socket]

Premium currency
Like warframe's platinum

Best to just save em

[surreal coral]

Do they currently have a use or nah

[fierce copper]

how do I get on soulframe?

the preludes I mean

[iron socket]

Buying Inventory slots

[surreal coral]

Thx

[iron socket]

Were Junipers arrows always Purple?

[rare socket]

Yeah
They kinda matched the feathers of doyens cloak

Since it's his bow

[iron socket]

I just never noticed

[fierce copper]

??

[rare socket]

Like in the game itself?

[fierce copper]

yeah how to register for prelude?

[somber portal]

This damn camel taunting my broke ass TwT I just wanna sell duplicate orst-3 stop showing me founders

[iron socket]

I'm so close to all animal entreies I just need 1 more Glimmering Rabbit and 2 glimmering Beavers

[fierce copper]

it says wait for invite before download

[mossy valley]

I dont always understand what triggers it, but Ive been able to use healheart to get like 7 rune activations for 4 charges

[iron socket]

Healing from any source

[rare socket]

Need an access code
They give em out randomly every Wednesday and if u watch livestreams, u get em guaranteed

[iron socket]

Atleast that's what it used to be

[mossy valley]

not any, pots dont work with it

[fierce copper]

are they live on yt or on twitch only?

[mossy valley]

and unless im somehow taking so much damage while Im runeing it up, Im not sure how my regain hits are charging up my runes by so much

[iron socket]

They stream on both I think

[rare socket]

Both, but u can only get the codes as twitch drops

[fierce copper]

ok

thanks

[iron socket]

Ya'lll know that feeling when you get a legendary Orst 3 and it has 1 Temper?

[rare socket]

They can get 1?

[iron socket]

1-8

[muted owl]

Lol no I haven't even gotten a legendary one yet

[iron socket]

I'm going to cry myself to sleep now

Cursed throw speed temper it haunts me Taunting me always there

[fast crescent]

I farmed today for 8 hours and the best I got from multiple different methods was 1 sovereign (which was worse than mine pre-hotfix) and 2 nobles. Something definitely feels bugged

[rare socket]

I thought there was some general limit with Tempers and craftwork levels
Like noble 4-5 or military 3-4

[mossy valley]

I thought your first orst after logging in/entering and exiting dungeon is going to be the same craftwork as the highest in your inventory? why do I have 7 militaries and only 1 officer??

[rare socket]

Only weapon level
Not craftwork level

Like if u rank up an Orst to lvl15, future Orsts will all drop lvl15

craftwork levels are rng

-# yeah?

-# TwT

[fast crescent]

I do wonder what DEs expected time investment for us to get a legendary 8 temper weapon. So far after 3 days now, trying to play and target farm as much as I can, I haven’t seen a single legendary. I understand it’s only been a few days but man in the old system I would’ve already had the weapon crafted and moved on

I’ve had nearly 150 maces, and all I can show for it is 4 sovereign and 3 nobles that I kept

[mossy valley]

Oh, man, this explains why I have orsts of varying levels.

Thank God my only officer orst is actually pretty solid with the tempers. (Volatic, bonus smite, faster heavies, damage and stagger on dodge)

[fast crescent]

I’ve tried cogah to level 120, killing Gawth on normal and cogah, the south castle farm, the 2p dungeon farm, and then just killing patrols. I’ve also run in and out of other dungeons killing the sinecure officers at the end to no luck.

I just don’t know what more to do honestly 😅 other than to persist. But there’s just no way the RNG is this bad

[mossy valley]

Nitrous, youre playing a DE game

you know the RNG is going to be bad because the desire sensor sees you

[mild warren]

wow they made it 4-players huge W

[mossy valley]

remove thy desire

and it will come

[rose mortar]

it's possible that the fully-realized system will feel better because you're getting other weapons too; right now orst is the only one with this system in the game, and it only drops from a handful of sources, so it feels pretty bad to not get what you want. in the future maybe it'll feel better because you can kinda-sorta farm multiple things at once?

[mossy valley]

Alternatively keep complaining and the desire sensor will stay its hand to try to embarrass you. Its my go to strat when cracking relics in warframe

[midnight perch]

Amen to this

[mossy valley]

That said I should start complaining about the orst drops then

[fast crescent]

I mean fair, we have had bad drop chances in the past before with Soulframe.

Honestly it feels like every preludes update has had that ONE or more weapon that’s insanely hard to get or a weird method

[iron socket]

I'm so confused running a grasce build with some spirit for Juniper and my clone goes 2x sometime 3x the damage I do

[mossy valley]

I have 4k arcs thanks to founder, I spent it on purity because the game thought it would be funny to give ke everything else the MK had before a single purity fragment

[fast crescent]

Potentially yeah, but with more weapons and this same drop rate that just means the pool will be diluted right? But to be honest I do think it’s bugged, yesterday before the hotfix it felt a lot better and more expected

[fast crescent]

That was me with Needleseye when it was bugged for T2 tales lol

[unique heath]

i have a question, what is the max MR you can currently get

[fast crescent]

18 and just above half, I’m not in game to take a picture though

[unique heath]

ok ty for letting me know, im only 2 ranks away

[delicate garden]

Sry not played in a while is lvl 30 still the max for gear and bonds/packs

[obtuse rampart]

Yes

[delicate garden]

Thks

[fervent bloom]

i have to wait like a week before I get a founders pack as I had to finish paying for issa training and then paid for application fees for something else.

[hushed rampart]

John Erstroot

[errant plinth]

"Back in my day, there were only 3 Envoys in a party."

Great change, glad it's up to 4.

[rare socket]

https://tenor.com/view/jesus-christ-thats-jason-bourne-shocked-surprised-shookt-gif-16976111

[near ridge]

okay guys, what should I choose

[young sun]

whatever you pick it will replace the word journal in your ui

[spice walrus]

It’s permanent, so choose carefully

[spice walrus]

I chose Codexicon because I didn’t think two words would look good but that’s not bad

[rare socket]

kinda regret not choosing almanac TwT
i did codexicon

[near ridge]

"Book" it is!
-# jk, probably going for codexicon

[midnight perch]

I might have to take book

[white parcel]

Book is the obvious answer

[young sun]

I like how it actually gives you a choice instead of an illusion of choice

[random prism]

I like Codexicon cus it seems the most generically personal.

Book is amusing though.

Though Codexicon is also kind of silly.

It's pretty much a very complicated way of saying 'biography'.

Since it's a combination of codex and lexicon.

[wooden goblet]

https://tenor.com/view/emperors-new-groove-emperor's-new-groove-new-groove-disney-defenestrate-gif-15531275002616087845

Archsage when they found what orlick did

[mossy valley]

oh God you can have "book"

[candid pawn]

this random villager came to fight the stag with me :]

[ripe kestrel]

in 2/3 hours i've found only one elite mace guy, and got less than 6 maces because i had to wait on 30minutes cooldown to have some guarantied boss drops, and on 6 only got stock ones and only 1 had a single temper on it, all others we're blank stock Orst-III, i'm glad i farmed a bit before they added stock to the drop rate and got a Noble one before that...

[young sun]

lyke-wake grind is painful T-T

I've been running rovgot ruins for hours now and I only got 1 fragment

[wooden flume]

?

[young sun]

at least I only need 2 fragments

[wooden goblet]

Prolly gona be less painful when they also get same treatment as Orst-III

[young sun]

well I'm used to warframe grind

[uneven bone]

is it normal to have virtue as 18 life / 7 grace / 7 spirit? if i adjust it i cant even get close to that anymore

[young sun]

even though the last time I played warframe was probably 8 years ago

[ripe kestrel]

idk why they want to make a rarity system, can be good if you're in a game like borderlands, but in this game, i don't feel it

[young sun]

would be a good tradable item though

[wooden goblet]

Good for trade economy yes

Biggest issue i have is the randomized damage numbers

[rare socket]

for those who read this post
https://discord.com/channels/998758139405029478/1504589413898780682
what are you thoughts on Bows?
Melee has block and parry, magick has that cirlce, but what about bows?

[wooden goblet]

Bows have limb shot

[rare socket]

the combats art for bows kinda suggest the gameplay is about planting and detonating arrows

[young sun]

bows can also parry though

[wooden goblet]

Bows use to have melee

Smacking people with it

[rare socket]

kinda find it a lil jarring cuz of the zoom-in when aiming

[wooden goblet]

I want it back

Or used it to replace kick

[rare socket]

imagine a bowblade trick weapons

or at the very least, and bow that can also be swung around like a sword

[random prism]

Magick and Bows can still block.

[wooden goblet]

Thats what old bow was like

[random prism]

Bows can parry too.

[wooden goblet]

There was also limited ammo

[rare socket]

maybe make it into a unique bow like the Avex with its stab

[young sun]

I want a rework stealth gameplay

[solid fable]

i wish bows had something like more chargeable attacks that involve multiple arrows

or maybe charging attacks makes more sense as a mage thing...

[random prism]

I feel like different weighs of draw could be experimented with, for different charge times and damage climbs when charging.

[wooden goblet]

Gotta wait and see the Martial Art manual update come out

[random prism]

They are already testing out unique heavy attacks.

But ultimately a bow is a bow, so much like longblades there's gonna be some similarity between them.

I could see the most unique thing about a bow being its heavy attack.

Which would be nice to see more diverse than most of them having arrow hail.

Then again, arrow hail is baked into the skill tree.

But that itself may change when the skill trees are overhauled into a new system.

[young sun]

I think combat stances will fix combat diversity

[random prism]

Yeah whatever stance and combo system they're cooking up.

[young sun]

that's one of my most awaited feature

[random prism]

Different styles of archery could be contained within.

[solid fable]

i think the risk is having bows too similar to magick weapons, which they sort of are already, but if magick gets more variety, bows sort of need a way to "feel" like they belong outside that umbrella

[random prism]

It'll be harder to add basic combo variety, like magick weapons are just starting to get, since bow... doesn't have a combo.

It has a unique charge mechanic on its basic attack, and is entirely free aim. I feel like that is different enough from magick.

But it, again, also means the easiest thing to make different without throwing too big a wrench in things is the heavy attack.

[rare socket]

what about a toggle for like, and arrow barrage?
firing low damaga arrows full auto, instead of charge

[solid fable]

currently, bows and magick weapons just feel like different flavours of very similar ranged combat though
and i'd like to see them diverge more

[young sun]

I don't mind if they change the bows free-aim basic attack with auto target basic attack string tbh

like the staves

[solid fable]

that doesn't sound like a bad idea 🥳

i remember in games like dragon's dogma 2, magic weapons are really impactful and weighty, and that gives bows a bit more space to shine

[rare socket]

might even work with the Splinter art, shoota buncha arrows, detonate em with charge

[solid fable]

actually, i wouldn't mind if soulframe copied dragon's dogma's magic casting, but that's just my opinion

[rare socket]

maybe magick could be for AoE support/ranged stuff, while bows are for more precise ranged attacks

[wooden goblet]

Hunting horn style gameplay for magic weapons

[rare socket]

what about blowgun style gameplay for bows?

[random prism]

We don't need a single grip-type having weird special mechanics.

It's just another grip type, though combos could use more variety, much like longblades having 3 different subtypes now.

[solid fable]

they should all have weird special mechanics

[random prism]

Lmao.

That would involve a combat overhaul, and hey, we're getting that new stance and skill system eventually.

Mayhaps we'll get something like that.

[solid fable]

more variety is better, honestly
soulframe's weapons right now, unfortunately, aren't very memorable

[random prism]

I do also vouch for more variety, but I don't want it to get out of hand.

The point is not to become like WF or DMC and start throwing out hack 'n slash combos.

So they will, probably, hopefully, always remain some degree of basic.

But your weapon is not all that defines you, given that pacts exist.

[solid fable]

you can have lots of complexity and depth without becoming a spectacle fighter

[wooden goblet]

Yeah, combat has to feel meaningful while melee in warframe is mostly ADHD induced attack speed frenzy

[rare socket]

or at the very least, something more tied to the Grounded circle, like the Spells i suggested
idk, maybe each staff could have their own unique one
Avex has its own unique thing, so do the Wyld weapons if u wanna counts those

[random prism]

This is stuff I specifically do not wish to ever see.

We don't need in-depth special spell mechanics, that's just a second pact in your pocket.

They're a weapon, like any other grip type, let them remain so.

[solid fable]

i think it's a cool idea though, it can work if it's done well

[wooden goblet]

My idea for the ground thing was that it sorta act like charge indicator when you can use wizard like dash/dodge to get away from enemy

[rare socket]

like a blink-teleport kinda thing?

[wooden goblet]

Yes

Or like levitation dash

Work only if you have fully charged attack count

[solid fable]

i remember in very early "mood piece" showcases, weapons kind of did have a more magical feel to them rather than just being tools to whack things with
weapon throwing and recalling was also part of that

so yeah, i'd rather weapons not stay too basic, that'd be really warframe-esque in my humble opinion

[random prism]

If you make magick weapons more special than just having lights and heavies, than you have to do the same for every other grip type.

And that sounds, again, like a complete overhaul.

[rare socket]

yeah TwT

[solid fable]

this is the perfect time to overhaul and try bold experiments

[rare socket]

also, apologies if we're yanking back an forth with these discussions

[solid fable]

it's not a problem as long as it's civil

[random prism]

Which is why I'm excited to see whatever their new stance/combo thingy turns out to be.

Cus it sounds like some degree of overhaul.

Like big update stuff. And I like the sound of it.

[random prism]

And yeah there's no animosity involved, just stated opinions.

It's why we're here.

[hearty ibex]

Ay Jimmy, gimme an Orst with nuthin'!

[random prism]

Lmao, mood.

[gusty nexus]

sounds for me more like a passive that alters your dodge roll based on which pact you're using. would make more sense + you give every pact slightly more depth but don't break the gameflow

[unique viper]

How do you guys like the ode tempest buff? I still find it quite weak against agari. But it does decent crowd control which is perfect against bosses with minions (my biggest weak spot right now)

[random prism]

We do have pacts altering kicks in substantial ways, even without skills.

Rood's kick just works completely differently past a certain range.

Playing with dodge while leaving basic functionality untouched does sound like it could be neat.

And by that I just mean not making it weaker in any way, such that it can always be reliably used.

[wooden goblet]

I kept bullying circade with it to get smite opportunity

[rare socket]

maybe each pip could act as a charge for the teleport

[wooden goblet]

Maybe, but i feel like 4 would be too much

2 at most would be fine

[random prism]

I still don't think magick needs a pseudo-rune baked in.

It would make it a big outlier in the current system.

[rare socket]

2 pips per dodge

[solid fable]

give it spells, like i mentioned in DD
you charge for a while and then you bring down a meteor

[rare socket]

even one would be ok TwT
pls

[random prism]

I mean, much like Avex, they could experiment with drastically-altered heavy functionality.

Right now they all have the same piercing shot.

Why not something like arrow hail but just... meteor-lite. One big ol' rock.

And that could easily fit in without being outlandishly complicated, relative to the other grip types.

Heavies could be closer to a special attack function for bows and magick.

Rather than a heavy combo like it is with melee weapons.

[rare socket]

or heck, some block+heavy function

[random prism]

Shield already has a unique block + light, I could see it.

[gusty nexus]

you could also alter dodge based on weapon type.
imagine having a backjump firing an arrow with a bow

[random prism]

So long as it isn't a multi-step process of some kind, and just an attack.

[solid fable]

i'm not even thinking in terms of light-heavy attacks, honestly, mages need something to make them feel like mages rather than glorified rangers, and spells would do the trick in my opinion

[random prism]

Though block + heavy is already taken, it's how you fire an unlocked shot.

[random prism]

The thing is you're treating magick as something that it isn't right now, it's just another grip-type, it's not meant to be its own class.

[noble bison]

me and who?

[rare socket]

remember that cinta bug that cuased u to jump back while throwing out bombs?

[random prism]

And if it's treated like its own class, it becomes vastly different from any other grip type.

At which point, every other grip type deserves that treatment.

And the game would play entirely differently.

[solid fable]

that's just my point, everything could do with a bit more depth

[random prism]

Besides, we're part fey, we're all mages. It's less staff making you a mage and more you just picking up a bolt-yeeting device.

Arcanics are our mage powers, we don't need to give more of the same to weapons.

That's the job of arcanics and runes.

A weapon's job is to be our basic mode of attack.

[solid fable]

see, that separation doesn't seem set in stone to me

[random prism]

We're all Gandalf here, some of us just have a sword too.

Like, dodges with extra flair? That sounds like a fun pact thing, much like special kick functions.

I wouldn't mind seeing something like that, though idk how they'd implement it as we get more and more pacts.

Exact same thing can be said about kicks though, and the current strategy is just most of them being basic lol.

I think only Rood and Orengall have built-in special functions.

Tempest having a passive that equally drastically alters it.

So long as it doesn't screw with dodge timing.

[solid fable]

i'm not really trying to fit my ideas into the game as it is now though
i'm sort of just floating ideas about more foundational stuff so it feels like we're looking at things differently

[random prism]

I like the general flow of the system as is where combat, at its core, is more basic and rhythmic.

Rather than frantic and showy.

It seems like a big part of SF's identity, and it's a facet that I really enjoy.

[solid fable]

i do too, and i feel like you can have more complex weapons while keeping that

games like monster hunter do it well, in my opinion

i'm not expecting soulframe's weapons to turn into MH weapons though

[wooden goblet]

https://tenor.com/view/monster-hunter-wiggler-hunting-horn-vibing-mhw-gif-25761541

[random prism]

Monster Hunter is very combo path oriented though and plays way differently.

And I don't want combo paths here.

The whole complexity there is that it is not a basic system that relies mostly on rhythm and spacing, but entirely on opportunity and timing and combo memorization.

Which works cus enemies are big and slower than you.

It's a very complex formula, and there's a reason 'monhun-like' isn't a common term.

Nobody else gets it right.

Very good, but an entirely different slice and style of action RPG.

[solid fable]

that's not really the point though, it was just an example

[random prism]

You made a point of Monhun having a lot of weapon complexity while keeping a slow pace, I countered with the fact that it plays vastly differently because it's in a vastly different style against a different enemy and with a system that feels very different, being heavily combo-system reliant.

So it just doesn't feel comparable, as its very foundation is fundamentally different.

[solid fable]

it was more just about the pace of the game
every game wants to be different to some degree, i just pulled it out as the one that popped into my head

[random prism]

Understandable, I just see 'Monhun' and the very first thing that comes to mind is the combo system, as I'm an active player of Wilds.

And I just... don't want to see that here.

And the spell system being suggested above is reminiscent of that.

Very complicated and rooted in memorization.

[rare socket]

tbh, when i first made that hunting horn mockup, i was also thinkgin of Dante and his abilities

[random prism]

Which is a hack 'n slash, which I also hope never to see here.