envoy-gathering

[hybrid pasture]

rats are pretty much everywhere abandoned

[red axle]

put jager black ice in my ahhhh 🎵

[tardy echo]

Apologies in advance if this has been mentioned and answered and if this is the wrong place to ask this but if I was to purchase the founders pack would that content be available to me when it gets launched on consoles?

[hybrid pasture]

errr

[devout raptor]

We don't know, but highly likely cross save is enabled day 1, or at a minimum you copy your account (including founders) over.

DE has a very long track record of taking care of people who have purchased things like that

[tardy echo]

Thank you🙏 .... as much as I wanted to just go off of what googling said.... you just never know

And i do want to invest in the game as I missed out on helping warframe way back then.... it's just pc aint my main platform

[hybrid pasture]

worse case scenario just plug in your controller into your pc eMoteLook

[plush rose]

this thing is bugging me Rahhh

103/105

[hybrid pasture]

squrriel?

wait no its duck

wait no duck

what is this

what is that

[remote glacier]

beaver

[red axle]

bober kurva

[olive star]

https://tenor.com/view/bober-kurwa-wombat-not-a-beaver-beaver-gif-8961649020872801915

[hybrid pasture]

is there more than 132 totems?

[tardy echo]

I'll do you one better.... the controller is my PC

[crisp marsh]

what is this mysterious box and why does it glow

[opal sapphire]

da holy box (i have no clue)

[young sun]

just some collector assets

[remote glacier]

collector cache

go to nighthold then back to break them

[crisp marsh]

huh ok

weird mechanic but alright

[olive star]

those boxes are supposed to break after the collector event ends, doubt they are supposed to break going into nightfold

[crisp marsh]

well they did break so 😭

[remote glacier]

would probably change in future updates so... ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[olive star]

do they drop stuff? i've never broken them outside collector event

[remote glacier]

they drop nice loot

even fragments

[olive star]

ye, i know they drop a lot after collector, just wasnt sure if they do outside of it

[remote glacier]

they dont break within the ship area when I try to go to nighthold

[hybrid pasture]

can you not swap weapon while keep flitsmoke active?

[remote glacier]

outside of hark, they do with the nighthold mechanic lol

[olive star]

if it's not letting you, then my guess is not

[hybrid pasture]

yeah, switching otu of my dagger just get rid of my invis

if boss sees me and coming for me, and I use flitsmoke, would I still get stealth multiplier from grace, even if its somehow still comign to attack me while invis

[ripe rivet]

Is this max now?

[white otter]

Ya

[ripe rivet]

ok thx

[hybrid pasture]

what if there would be ode themed star/constellation pact in the far future

it's not impossible

[pliant lintel]

they mentionned that oden pacts are 100% in the work, including their own twist on the wylds

[hybrid pasture]

ode tempest doesn't feel like tempest at all does it

[pliant lintel]

and with this image, Even mendicant pacts

[stone cliff]

I wonder if there is any pact arm that is just non existent (our envoy only has 1 arm lol)

[summer axle]

the one on the right looks awesome

[stone cliff]

looks like the necromancer pact

[hybrid pasture]

would mendicant pact let me pull out excalibur

[summer axle]

yeee or some mendicant stuff

[stone cliff]

which has been said that is smth coming more or less soonish

[pliant lintel]

that's mmore because the pact is named after a military unit rather than a concept, which, honnestly, opens the door to a pact that is a "true" storm. like, imagine if the ram omen beast was a lightning themed beast, and their whole fable was around harnessing/mimicking it's power over alacan's golden lightning

[summer axle]

maybe the mendicant one lets us have a glow on our weapons like the burnt ivory king from ds2 xD

[stone cliff]

ds2?

[summer axle]

dark souls 2

[stone cliff]

OH

thank god

[summer axle]

https://klipy.com/gifs/burnt-ivory-king-dark-souls--k01KR44EVW1JYDBS2G2YRCHJHA6

[stone cliff]

thought you were gonna say destiny 2

was about to go all rage on you

[summer axle]

hell nooo

[stone cliff]

like

Ive never played destiny for a long time but I know enough about destiny to hate it lol

[summer axle]

yeah 🥲

[hybrid pasture]

Silence and Squall

[summer axle]

only mmo I play these days is guild wars 2 lol

[hushed rampart]

sometimes I think about this and I'm like "bro must have fell asleep at a slumber party or something"

[hybrid pasture]

it does have good particle design

[summer axle]

I'd play runescape cause I absolutely adore that game, but the payment scheme for it just puts me off completely

[stone cliff]

only mmo I play is || ||

[hybrid pasture]

chicken leg arm pact

[hushed rampart]

pre much

[summer axle]

none

[stone cliff]

yeah exactl I dont play any mmo..

IMO

theres a lack of good mmo

[hushed rampart]

someone fried the envoys arm

[hybrid pasture]

anything can be called mmo at this point

[summer axle]

yee there is, a lot of mmo's are just hot garbo

[hybrid pasture]

even warframe is mmo

[stone cliff]

imo theres no good mmos

the best ones all have funky ways to monetize stuff

[summer axle]

I love gw2 though, something about that game just keeps me coming back, whether it's the art, the world, the gameplay, the story and characters, or even the mounts

[stone cliff]

which I find annoying af

I have never played or seen gw2 so cant talk much about it

[summer axle]

it's the mmo that broke a ton of mmo tropes

[hushed rampart]

yeah I struggle to find a good mmo that isn't just whale central

[summer axle]

very good and worth checking out, doesn't really play like any other mmo I've played before

[stone cliff]

but most known and played mmos are WOW, Final fantasy GW2 then we have the korean ones (lost ark, black desert etc)

[summer axle]

I feel like black desert is just a glorified idle game lol

[stone cliff]

wow and final fantasy are paid monthly to play (makes no sense in my eyes)

[summer axle]

yeah ^ same as runescape

[hybrid pasture]

how does grace's "stealth" work? is it enemy unalerted, or just not aggro on you or smth especially in multiplayer enviourment

[stone cliff]

GW2 was a paid game now I dunno how it is

[pliant lintel]

MMOs are pretty expansive, that's why.

[stone cliff]

lost ark and black desert are "free to try" and pay to play

[summer axle]

it WAS a paid game, now you can play the whole base game for free, the expansions are one time purchases and each one is pretty damn big

[stone cliff]

meaning once you reach the "endgame" you gotta gamble money to buy stuff and play with the stupid odds

[summer axle]

yeah screw that lol

[stone cliff]

Im not asking for a free mmo or anything

but we need an mmo where its either a 1 time purchase

buy the game and play free expansions

or a fully f2p game but without the pay money for mats to be better than the other

imo the game that managed this better was path of exile

not a perfect monetization in my eyes

I dont like the buy inventory tabs thing

but its a free game that is not THAT predatory in my opinion

[pliant lintel]

impossible, MMO have recurring maintenance fees. Servers must remain on, they have to pay people to maintain them, they have to devellop content to keep their players playing, which cost money, and so on

[summer axle]

gw2's system where you buy each expansion individually or in a bundle and then the only stuff in the shop is cosmetics and a couple utility things works really really well

they make all their money off the cosmetics and the nice boost of revenue from each expac that comes out

[stone cliff]

they can monetize a lot with a skins

and cosmetics in general

[pliant lintel]

my partner would loooooooooooooooove to disagree with you there

[stone cliff]

LMAO

ppl are free to disagree with me

I havent gone too far into any mmo

I just know a superficial lvl of them

[pliant lintel]

that explains your takes XD

[stone cliff]

my opinions are based on the little knowledge/ experience I have

[stone cliff]

sure lol

on top of it Im slightly ragebaiting the chat lol

[summer axle]

https://klipy.com/gifs/asura-dance--k01KR44TE6T8T98GXNG6NJ0Z71S

nuff said xD

[stone cliff]

what in the furry is this?

[pliant lintel]

so to essentially get you fully knowledgeable, there is a reasonw hy MMOs have a pretty low success rate. they are expansive to make and maintain.

[summer axle]

those are asura, they're kinda like yoda

[stone cliff]

oh I knwo that

and they are also low success rate bc imo they havent figured the perfect monetization formula

[summer axle]

yuppp, and a lot of them fail within a couple years because of playerbase drying up due to either bad decisions or lack of endgame content in the earlydays

[stone cliff]

personally paying monthly to play a game isnt appealing at all

in m eyes ofc

[summer axle]

ngl, I miss new world

I loved that at launch, and good god they botched it

[pliant lintel]

the monthly paiment is there to essentially ensure the servers and data storage are covered, plus any other devellopement costs.

[summer axle]

did you see what happened with ashes of creation too? xD

[stone cliff]

like they are very low success rate bc they need to monetize a lot and they cant figure out a way to retain players

[summer axle]

absolute tragedy

[stone cliff]

I know but look from a user standpoint

[pliant lintel]

yeah, because you feel forced to play otherwise you waste your membership.

[stone cliff]

would you like to pay 15 eur a month to play a game?

I rathe rspend 60 eur on another game and pay whenever I want

[summer axle]

gw2 was smart af, they made the game pay to play to begin with, then they monetised other parts of their games like cosmetics and expansions and utility stuff and then made the base game free to play so you essentially get a reaally good taster with hundreds of hours free which makes you WANT to invest in it

[stone cliff]

15 eur a month you play for a year its 150 eur

its more

[pliant lintel]

that's because there isn't one that isn't a huge financial gamble.

[stone cliff]

this was a good marketing plan yeah

[summer axle]

also the way they handled mounts is the best in the entire mmo industry, they are freaking incredible

[stone cliff]

what makes me stay away from mmos in general its either the monthly payment or in the free mmos the having 0.05% to lvl up my armor and need to pay money to get thingies to make it like 3% yk

[summer axle]

that's another thing gw2 fixed

once you get your max level gear, you NEVER need to get new gear

[stone cliff]

that is good

[summer axle]

every bit of content is doable with standard max level gear

[stone cliff]

or sounds good at least

[summer axle]

you can take a 5 year break, come back and still do everything without needing to upgrade

[stone cliff]

the mmos I have more hours in are lost ark and bhlack desert

[summer axle]

it's a really good system

[stone cliff]

I played a bit of

path of exile

[summer axle]

does POE really count as an mmo though?

[stone cliff]

path of exile I grew bored of it

[pliant lintel]

technicly tht makes it so there is no incentive to grind, but at the same time, it makes it so the people that will stay are truly there for the love of the game

[stone cliff]

yesnt

not in the standard mmo way

[summer axle]

no cause instead of grinding for gear, you grind out masteries for passive bonuses and access to new content

[stone cliff]

but I consider it part of the family

[hybrid pasture]

feels nice to one shot agaris with duelo.... if only there's easier way to invis(flitsmoke) and headshot consistantly..

[stone cliff]

its like the weird uncle of the family

[summer axle]

or new abilities for your mounts

[pliant lintel]

which, if the way you describe it umbra is true, then i feel like it would be a nice way to handle soulframe too

[summer axle]

there's so much content is INSANE lmfao

I feel liek POE is more like soulframe, like you have hubs where you see people but you have to invite people to party to properly like, do stuff

[pliant lintel]

so horizontal progression

[summer axle]

it's not natural coop

[summer axle]

yeah, I was going to say that but i didn't know if you knew the term lol

[stone cliff]

I wish that soulframe stays away from it lol

I think if they grab the trading system and the same monetiation methods as warframe, it will go on a good path

[pliant lintel]

I got game design autism, you can assume i know a lot of concepts, jsut not a lot of games

[stone cliff]

we just need to diversify the other systems a bit more

[summer axle]

I feel like soulframe, warframe, PoE they're not really fully fledged mmo's they're more like MMO-lites cause there's no real open world full of people and open multiplayer

[summer axle]

same bruddah xD

[stone cliff]

so it isnt a fantasy warframe type of thing

[unborn jackal]

https://tenor.com/view/hopium-hope-pray-prayge-believe-gif-7803262820900562563

[stone cliff]

warframe is a looter shooter lol

not even close to an mmo

soulframe is

[hybrid pasture]

natural coop means RACE TO THE EXTRACTION POINT or feel guilty of being bad

[stone cliff]

hmm

soulframe I guess lol

[pliant lintel]

Warframe isn't really a looter shooter, it's genuinly more of a horde shooter

[summer axle]

no soulframe is more like a single player game with drop in drop out coop right now lol

warframe is kinda the same iirc

[pliant lintel]

RIGHT NOW, but we are also in alpha

[summer axle]

yeee

[stone cliff]

more like map nuking

[summer axle]

I'm excited to see what sort of matchmaking they'll have and if they'll ever increase party limit or add like raid sorta things

[hybrid pasture]

that's jsut the meta now but not the core

[pliant lintel]

that's because the devs haven't taken care of the game's balance in a proper way kind of ever

[summer axle]

cause ngl 3 players is kiiiinda bad lol, it ends up usually being a couple and a third wheel playing

[hybrid pasture]

with how strong buffs can stack, is it even possible to have raid bosses, mechanics maybe

[stone cliff]

pablito is not doing bad imo

[summer axle]

genuinely would love this as long as more players can actually play

[pliant lintel]

party limit, absolutly not, but raids? they hinted at them last devstream

[stone cliff]

in warframe we re supposed to be mass murder machines

[stone cliff]

yeah we need raids in soulframe 100%

we need hard content imo

[summer axle]

in this we are angry vegans, change my mind

[hybrid pasture]

not with fellust + any rune still a thing

[pliant lintel]

if you chech in ionterviews, you'd know the man is half having a hard time because he can't do much because the game is too unbalanced to do anything good

[stone cliff]

they need to change it

fellust needs to be additive dmg (flat dmg amp)

[summer axle]

what's fellust?

[stone cliff]

tethrens 1st ability

[summer axle]

AH I haven't touched tethren yet still lol

[stone cliff]

basically

with 42 courage you have 7 stacks

[summer axle]

what does it actually do?

[stone cliff]

each successful normal atk increases the dmg

and spends 1 charge

but this scales multiplicative

[hybrid pasture]

it gives so much dmg right now with no downtime (as long you don't miss) and pretty much one shot anything in the game rn

[summer axle]

oh it's additive damage for successive hits

well damn

[stone cliff]

meaning your 6-7 stack with fire rune does like 5k dmg or more lol

[summer axle]

yeah that needs a nerf or a cap

[pliant lintel]

it increase your damage per consecutive hits. used to be stronger than current flintlock, now it's JUST as bad

[stone cliff]

multiplicative

[summer axle]

BRUH

[stone cliff]

the amount of successfull hits scales the fellust boost

[summer axle]

who sat down with their crack pipe and decided that was a good idea lmfao

[stone cliff]

the formula for it its some numbers that Im not sure but then has this

.... * (n hits)

[hybrid pasture]

ever since Fey was removed idk man

[summer axle]

and it's possible to sustain the damage with not missing?

[untold tiger]

Suspected scam content removed by bot.

[summer axle]

oop

[pliant lintel]

wrong way to look at it. they are testing stuff rn and are just running rough numbers before commiting to anything

[stone cliff]

missing spends a stack and does not scale it

[hybrid pasture]

mr beastttt (again

[stone cliff]

like the ability

[summer axle]

nono I know xD I'm just taking the piss I know that everything is in testing rn and it's just an alpha game lol

[stone cliff]

on paper using correctly, its not that bad

the issue is when runes enter into the equation

or other weapons

that ability was designed for long swrods imo

[summer axle]

it's just funny to imagine someone sitting down and going "aight, nerds, it's time to make tethren hit like homelander on crack cocaine and adrenaline"

[hybrid pasture]

runes already do so much damage, and fellust just turns it into boss melters

[stone cliff]

like when DE sat and made it

then ppl started grabbing bows

then runes became a thing

with the rework it got worse

[hybrid pasture]

me when fellust arrow hail

[pliant lintel]

listen, these days i never know. so many people forget (or jsut don't know) what an alpha is and are starting to doomsday posting over the game having bad balance

[stone cliff]

doesnt work

or at least it didnt work before

[hybrid pasture]

originally

[stone cliff]

true lol

I dont shit post but I mention it a couple times lol

[summer axle]

yeah that makes me laugh, it's so stupid to come in here and be like "oh my god this game is so baaad look how unbalanced everything is this is such a stupid game why would you do all this ermahgerd dumb game it's never going to get fixed bad studio blah blah blah"

[stone cliff]

lmao

[summer axle]

it's so very clearly in an alpha stage rn lol

[stone cliff]

but yeah for example

bows are in a really bad shape atm lol

thats balacing issues

they might be changing joineries again maybe

[boreal forge]

GAME

[pliant lintel]

yeah, like people are going "it's warframe all over again!!!" while ironicly, so many things the devs are doing scream "we are NOT making those mistakes again, holy frick, we are not making warframe again"

[stone cliff]

we need bow rebalance, magik staff rebalance, fellust and bestone changes aswell

bestone isnt even that bad imo but multiplicative stuff its not good imo

[subtle nacelle]

is duelo good?

[summer axle]

bro ikr LMFAO obviously they're using the same engine and they clearly pulled a lot of source coe from warframe to give them a head start so systems will be similar but ffs use your head man xD

[stone cliff]

very

[pliant lintel]

like, they KNOW that warframe isn't a success due to it's mechanics, but in spite of them. there is a reason why there is sooooo many things that only warframe does

[subtle nacelle]

it doesn’t feel crazy yet

[stone cliff]

it is really crazy

build grace duello

[summer axle]

get it ranked to 30 then headshot something with your flintlock 🙂

[stone cliff]

or grace courage split

[olive star]

cant really judge a pact until you maxed it out tbh

[summer axle]

yeah I learned that the hard with with garren rood lol

I genuinely thought it was ass when I started it, now it's one of my favourite pacts

[stone cliff]

I never really liked rood that much lol

[hybrid pasture]

they 100% needs to fix enemy aggro, enemies infight just doesn't exists anymore the MOMENT you gets into LoS, they just straight up forget they're enemies, also sirin and duelo decoys dont work half the time

[summer axle]

I looooove it xD

[stone cliff]

I find it boring, and the 1st ability is buggy af

[subtle nacelle]

hope they add the add totems to pacts

and a awaken skill where you turn into what the pact is based off of and fight as them for a bit

like a transformation ultimate

[stone cliff]

its a strong pact tho dont get me wrong

[summer axle]

I think the 1st ability needs better targetting

[stark cliff]

Real and based

[stone cliff]

Ive had the 1st ability do dmg and no heal, do heal and no dmg, and not do anything

[oblique pawn]

Aggro uses a priority system, but the priority has been buggy for a while. For example, Sirin's Decoy is lower priority than the player for some reason

[hybrid pasture]

garren was originally the strongest pact in the game, more than Fey and og ode tempest..

[summer axle]

adventure quest 3d does a cool thing with their classes right, once you max it out, you unlock a cross skill for that class, and that skill can then be used in any other class and it's a skill that feels like it plays from the original one

[boreal forge]

The hell do you turn into with Ode Tempest?

[stone cliff]

this is SOOO FUNNY LMAOOO

[summer axle]

ball

[boreal forge]

Oh

[stark cliff]

A sphere obviously /j

[summer axle]

https://klipy.com/gifs/sonic-blue-1--k01KR46786M55MAFV3J8ERNEBWK

[hybrid pasture]

enemies used to keep the infighting aggro , but now its just gone

[oblique pawn]

This unfortunately does make sense, as if enemies were higher priority to each other, then the Envoy could just kill both with no threat

[hybrid pasture]

tesla coil, demon core or smth

[pliant lintel]

you think they're starting to get nervous looking at their ever growing "we'll fix later when it's feature complete" closet?

[summer axle]

there's yer problem right there, it's got no aaaggro in it

[stone cliff]

naito where is our crow/raven?

[boreal forge]

You turn into Carmo with Duelo?...

[summer axle]

just a giant floating rapier

[oblique pawn]

From what we can tell, Aggro is a set order, not a hidden stacking value

[stone cliff]

we were promised it

[hybrid pasture]

turn into a ship

[summer axle]

or flintlock lmao

[oblique pawn]

So there's no way to have the enemies fight each other and the player at the same time

[stone cliff]

tethrens aggro seems to work tho

[oblique pawn]

With the current system at least

[hybrid pasture]

a ship cannon with wheels

[boreal forge]

It's so wild they straight up just added a gun as a ability, lmao

[summer axle]

I love it

[oblique pawn]

That seems to just up detection radius tbh

[hybrid pasture]

but it did work before...

[summer axle]

I cast gun at 30th rank!

[oblique pawn]

The backend's all weird atm

[stone cliff]

I havent tested it, but I have a feeling in coop when I use my 3rd the enemies stop targetting teammates and start targetting me

but I havent tested it, justa feeling I had

[oblique pawn]

Ah, might pop you to the top of the prio list then?

[boreal forge]

Ode'n: Race from space beyond the stars, uses bows

Random cursed ship captain: I cast GUN

[stone cliff]

maybe

[summer axle]

someone was saying garren rood's 3 is buggy in multi for anyone who's not the host rn?

[stone cliff]

would need testing tho

[pliant lintel]

really, a wierd backend, in my ALPHA????

[stone cliff]

thats just a feeling I have from when I play coop

[olive star]

very possible, a lotta things are buggy for clients as opposed to hosts

[stone cliff]

might just be coincidence

[summer axle]

I'll have to do some testing once I've finished levelling the galactic football pact o.e

[stone cliff]

most bugs in warframe and soulframe are related to the multiplayer part of it

[hybrid pasture]

they could implement dynamic thread priority from wf..

[boreal forge]

Btw, is there any process to find the whole arena tile for leveling more easily?...or a easier way to level weapons?...

[hybrid pasture]

rng

[oblique pawn]

Just run NE tales or Cogah tbh

[boreal forge]

(⁠╥⁠﹏⁠╥⁠)

[oblique pawn]

Less downtime, but less burst XP

Evens out in your favour imo

[stone cliff]

run glades dungeons

[summer axle]

some people made detection tools but I have no idea if they work and I couldn't recommend trying them either tbh

[stone cliff]

the arena tileset can spawn only on specific spots

[boreal forge]

Wouldn't it suck to run Cogah with unleveled stuff?

[summer axle]

they're not affiliated with DE so I wouldn't trust them maybe

[stone cliff]

bc its a huge tileset, the corridor of the arena is part of the arena tileset

I cant explain it well sadly

[summer axle]

I'm yet to find an arena naturally tbh, but I've not really TRIED to I don't run glades a lot since I'm still levelling factions so been focused on t3 votives

[oblique pawn]

Depends. If you have your pact levelled and a good selection of Totems, the only thing you'd be missing is the bonus damage from levelling the weapons

Which isn't really necessary

[hybrid pasture]

you can bring unleveled weapons to cogah lv70 just fine with fellust

[oblique pawn]

Scaling makes up far more if the relevant numbers.

[boreal forge]

I mean, yeah? That's what I've been trying

[simple mason]

I've been levelling stuff in Cogah

[stone cliff]

yeahh, they only read your EE.log

[simple mason]

Training in 10x gravity

[stone cliff]

but its still a use at your own risk type of thing

[boreal forge]

I've been doing glades non stop since yesterday and no arena yet

[stone cliff]

so not recommended

[oblique pawn]

Just a general reminder that any 3rd party tools are subject to DE's third party software policy and are use at your own risk.

[stone cliff]

yep

[summer axle]

yeah that's why I said I can't recommend using them xD

[stone cliff]

you can read your own EE.log file to know if you have one I think

I just dont know what to look for lol

[boreal forge]

Pact leveling included

[stone cliff]

imo its faster to just run the dungeon and find it than to read your EE file tbh

[boreal forge]

I kinda hate the fact mastery influences your stats, but I gotta do what I gotta do

[muted owl]

Worth putting into #1438224662344761345

[stone cliff]

yep

if you dont like smth dont be scared to use the feedback thing

its there to give DE an ideia of what works and what doesnt

[boreal forge]

I don't imagine one person complaining would do much

[summer axle]

I can understand that, thankfully once you get all motes and trees you get ample stats to pretty much solo all the content rn

[stone cliff]

the issue is hybrid builds

[summer axle]

yeah

[stone cliff]

Im max MR

and I sometimes have a bit of trouble to max an hybrid build

need to tweak a lot of stuff lol

[summer axle]

I'm GETTING there lol, I'm half way through 15 rn

[stone cliff]

having 2 points locked behind quest doesnt help much imo aswell lol

[summer axle]

oh I'mma be real I actually hate that system

I put a thing in feedback for that

someone did write that apparently it's an old system that's getting removed though

so that's neat if that's the case

[stone cliff]

very likely yeah

[boreal forge]

They could just let us get "free points" we can allocate wherever by completing some tales or doing stuff like cleaning the trees

[summer axle]

okay, see I wouldn't have an issue with it tbh, IF they had a thing to change those allocated points easier

like a little menu where you can decide which point from which fable to give

but the fact you gotta replay the fable each time is just reee lol

[boreal forge]

(⁠╥⁠﹏⁠╥⁠)

[boreal forge]

On that note

I don't get the prisms either

Like, why? WHY?

[summer axle]

I don't mind the prisms, I just don't know how the hell they're gunna scale that system long term since they've already got them all kinda allocated out

[hybrid pasture]

that's how it originally was, plus shewolf and waste bear also gave us 2 points total

[random prism]

The weapons we have right now are nothing compared to the amount they eventually want to add.

[summer axle]

I'm not talking about the weapons?

[random prism]

It'll scale cus the mountain of stuff we'll be able to consume for MR will allow us to grow higher and higher.

[boreal forge]

...

Yeah but stats being tied to mastery was my initial complain

It sucks really bad

[summer axle]

I'm talking about the amount of prisms lol, like once you've got all the prisms they have now, they already have a pretty balanced out set of them, I don't know how they'll add more to it unless they make prisms that also increase stats

[random prism]

Does it? I don't see any real problem with it. It'll scale.

[hybrid pasture]

plus its a progression system to make you stronger the more you play no?

[stone cliff]

Im almost sure they will untie virtue points form mastery

[pliant lintel]

it really does

[stone cliff]

they just dont know what to tie them to atm

[random prism]

Eh, I don't see it.

[stone cliff]

makes no sense to ahve them tied to MR

[random prism]

How so?

I see it being perfectly functional.

As it is right now.

[summer axle]

it also pretty much damn near stops progression in it's tracks rn stat wise

you get a massive boost from map completion, once that's done you have to grind so hard even to get one point from weapons / pacts

[hybrid pasture]

again, with MR, its a progression system to make you stronger the more you play, its linear

[stone cliff]

makes the progression system being grabbing everything you can and lvl up

[summer axle]

doesn't feel good in the long run

[stone cliff]

not really that friendly

[random prism]

Tbh leveling stuff up right now doesn't take all that long, and WF had a very similar system, MR just unlocked stuff there.

[stone cliff]

when we have MR 40 in soulframe will we have like 30 points on each stat?

[summer axle]

I wouldn't say it's linear it's more of a concave down lol

[stone cliff]

like doesnt work well

[boreal forge]

Mastery in general as a metric system works well to show how much someone engages with a completionist mindset of the game, however that takes away player agency by forcing you to effectively go through the very redundant process of leveling a lot of weapons that'll just have the same feeling of one another regardless

[hybrid pasture]

MR mikght cap at some point

[stone cliff]

MR is warframe is not directly tied to gameplay

gives you more QoL I guess

[random prism]

I mean, it unlocks some weapons and functions.

[stone cliff]

virtue points legit say how much dmg you do

[boreal forge]

You level up a few long swords and you've leveled all of them, you know how it is, but you still gotta keep doing it regardless for the stats

[hybrid pasture]

wf mr ties to rivens, daily standing cap, daily trades, loadout slots , and eventually blessing

[stone cliff]

its the same as in warframe each MR gives you an account passive that says (increase dmg by 10%)

[stone cliff]

yeah QoL basically

not tied to gameplay DIRECTLY

[hybrid pasture]

INDIRECTLY.

[stone cliff]

yeah

[hybrid pasture]

same as envoy rank

[pliant lintel]

if the Mr proressionw as jsut tied to content completion rather than inventory it would work

[boreal forge]

In Warframe Mastery allows you mostly to keep the momentum of farming things, increasing daily caps.

Besides...Weapons in Warframe nowadays are often very unique from one another, sure, melee is generally all very samey, but it is also MUCH quicker to level up

[hybrid pasture]

its indirectly buffing your damage

[stone cliff]

but in warframe a MR1 and a MR 30 if they have the same mods and chara and buoild they do the exact same dmg

in soulframe they dont lol

bc you have more virtue points

[hybrid pasture]

you seems to have forgotten the whole mechanic of mr locked weapons and relays

[stone cliff]

none of those affect your damage

[boreal forge]

In Warframe you can be comfortably at Mr like, 12 to 15 forever without a problem

Soulframe REQUIRES mastery

[hybrid pasture]

no it does not require, it makes you stronger yes, but not nessary "required"

[boreal forge]

And that's just very cumbersome

[pliant lintel]

more like mr18 iirc, where you unlock the last MR locked weapons

[random prism]

I mean, with MR dictating the current max strength, they have something that scales by itself. They don't have to introduce some other xp system and decide on a new 'max level' every content update.

[stone cliff]

that another thing

[random prism]

It'll just grow by itself as they add more stuff.

[stone cliff]

that does affect gameplay slightly but not as strong as virtue points in soulframe

[random prism]

It's working fine.

[pliant lintel]

But again, the big issue that SF has with it is jsut that it works like WF's where leveling stuff is how it's leveled, not jsut doing content

[hybrid pasture]

it is a linear progression system, its fine as is

[boreal forge]

It's extremely boring

[hybrid pasture]

weapon classes in sf are still wip.

[random prism]

Oh yeah that'll be revamped into a more generic collectible skill system, that's known.

Weapon skill trees will not exist as they are.

But that's something else.

[summer axle]

nuh uhhhh, clearly the rapier is in the right class as it's a long-sword 🙄 lol

[stone cliff]

Im not sure but even the pact trees will not be a thing I think

[pliant lintel]

it's not because while the system is good, the way you unlock the xp is tedious. it's tied to arbitrarly jsut leveling weapons, not actually progress in the game. if you don'T farm and elvel the weapon you hate, then you ar epunished by not progessing

[stone cliff]

I think when they mentioned the trees they mentioned both weapon and pact

Im not sure on the pact tho

[hybrid pasture]

I just said they're working on making sub weapon classes their own upgrade tree

[random prism]

Then you farm and level weapons. At that point literally any xp system is arbitrary.

[summer axle]

nuh uh, longsword class is a finished product doesn't need changes xD

[hybrid pasture]

you're just ragebaiting, Im ignoring

[boreal forge]

What the hell?...

[summer axle]

I was making a joke because CLEARLY the game aint finished and they're gunna be changing the weapon classes xD

sarcasm really doesn't translate well in text lol

[boreal forge]

🤨

[stone cliff]

lmao

[hybrid pasture]

you repeated the same arguement thrice, Im not buying

[boreal forge]

I guess it is to be expected that any discord server would kinda be a mess huh

[summer axle]

wait me? I'm not even arguing lol

[boreal forge]

Oh well

[pliant lintel]

Chlo, i feel like you are completly missing what people are complaining about. People don'T want to level stuff they donT' like jsut to get better with stuff they do. it's boring and annoying, on top of making for the most obtuse way of gaining power. All it ddoes is punish people for not being super completionist and not liking things. it jsut hurt you for not bothering with mediocre drop rate. it sour the experience because you have a life, basicly

[hybrid pasture]

you may or may not have understanding of what "arguement" actually means...

[random prism]

I mean, that's just grinding. Grinding some arbitrarily created 'character xp' would be extremely similar.

You're going to grind one way or the other.

[pliant lintel]

it's the nature of the grind, chlo

[random prism]

This particular way is just something DE is used to.

[pliant lintel]

and it sucks

[random prism]

That also scales by itself without a bunch of further direction.

[summer axle]

I do kinda dislike that currently if we want max mastery we need to level every single weapon from each type since there are clearly going to be weapon types that some people like less than others, BUT I'm in the mindset that it's supposed to be a "mastery" rank, so I guess the idea is you're supposed to master each weapon type, so it's not really that bad

[hybrid pasture]

sucks for you maybe, but in the end of the day, its a linear progression that works

[summer axle]

I genuinely have no idea what you're on about, sorry. you said something that made me laugh so I responded with a joke, if it didn't come across as a joke then that's my bad I'm sorry.

[random prism]

Eventually there'll be so many weapons that this'll matter less anyway.

[hybrid pasture]

unless you want DE to take the destiny gear leveling route huh?

[pliant lintel]

eventually, but for now? there sin't, and until they reach that point, it will be a problem.

[boreal forge]

It's a very stale form of progression tied to redundancy

[hybrid pasture]

"argument" also translates to "statement"

[summer axle]

and I'm not saying that it sucks either, I'm happy with how the game is rn, there needs to be and there WILL be changes in it cause it's a pre-alpha, right now I think we're all just talking about idea we think would be interesting to implement

[boreal forge]

Some people want to play as a mage, but they gotta level every single longsword to get the stats for it

[random prism]

This runs into the pre-alpha problem. It ain't a good idea to add a temporary system, to change it and then change it back later. It has teething issues, that is all.

[pliant lintel]

that is being bad faith or jsut being extremely misonformed over AAAAAAAAAAAAAAALL the possible ways to handle thing

[summer axle]

okay, I'mma be serious for a second. I'm not arguing with you or making any statements, I don't know why you're so hung up about this. I made a joke with one thing you said. You clearly didn't take it as a joke, I don't know why you're getting so defensive or like stuck up about it but seriously chill out.

you're taking this way too seriously

[hybrid pasture]

because you keep REPEATING IT bringing it up

[pliant lintel]

especially since we actually already have stuff in game that can work as better progression, which is things like the history motes and discovery places. those give masteries, it's completing task for the first time, clearing content. stuff you can do without devoting weeks to jsut getting stuff you don'T like only to spend time leveling them isntead of having a good time playing what you like

[subtle nacelle]

honestly, yeah, you would just turn into a ball of lightning and just leave lightning trails everywhere strikes everywhere

[summer axle]

bro, I said it twice as a joke, you said the weapon classes aren't finished so I was like "nuh uhhhh rapier is finished duhhhh" as in to make a sarcastic joke that OBVIOUSLY they're not finished, it's really not that deep

[hybrid pasture]

plus they need to make you want to buy weapon slots for microtransaction anyway

[boreal forge]

...

[summer axle]

I was being playful with you, I'm sorry that it didn't come across that way.

[random prism]

And that'd have identical arguments about people not wanting to relog over and over to grind out motes as fast as possible, why are they forced to explore every house and random boring corner instead of fighting things like any other RPG?

[pliant lintel]

Tting character power to how much gear they leveled isn't done in any other games for a ver damn good reason

[boreal forge]

What.

[random prism]

This whole thing is purely subjective.

[subtle nacelle]

yup

[boreal forge]

Holy shit, the game already has THIS much bad faith to it?

Oof, I cursed

[random prism]

Bad faith? What are you smoking?

[pliant lintel]

nah, there jsut is a few special people

[subtle nacelle]

wdym?

[random prism]

They need to monetize somehow.

[summer axle]

I mean I defo think some people come in expecting a full game, me and @pliant lintel literally spoke about this before lol

[random prism]

And how they do so allows them to be the most free player friendly f2p like, literally ever.

[summer axle]

but no I think most of the community understands that there are changes coming and it's very much a live testing ground rn lol

[pliant lintel]

y'know, it's how the internet works. you don't get super good representation of how the community is

[boreal forge]

I just wonder if that's how the majority is boutta look like in the future with the whole thing shaping up, which is hilarious given the themes of the game

[pliant lintel]

this is assuming they don'T improve on that system Chlo. so far, all your arguments can essentially be sumarized by "they have a thing "working" and there is no possibility they can make somethnig better" with an extra layer of "if it works, why try to improve?"

[unique viper]

I think I'm missing something with cogah. I get hit pretty hard when I least expect it. I feel as if there is no margin for error. even with a max courage build I take a lot of damage from the smallest of creature

[random prism]

My point is that literally anything they do would face identical arguments as it's entirely subjective.

The system as is works, any other system could probably work, but this is the one they used and are used to.

[pliant lintel]

nah, there is always going to have some elements that will be very vocal and take a lot of space, but the community will most likely be a lot more tame

[random prism]

It's entirely subjective and at this point is just something to put in feedback.

See how it goes.

[summer axle]

some stuff in cogah is waaay overtuned to hit hard, I imagine it's something that they're working on for the future just for now you gotta be super careful, best thing to do is see if you can get a small party going that way if one goes down you can still be revived 🙂

[boreal forge]

If that's your argument then it implies there's absolutely no room for any discussion about anything ever because everything can be boiled down to subjective

[random prism]

I'm saying that it's been implied several times that this system is objectively worse or problematic, or that people beyond the ones talking here hate it.

The only way to prove or disprove that would be a feedback thread where people can actually see it and it can be articulated in one go.

[unique viper]

yeah, you can't tank anything with a tank build

[random prism]

Such things don't really go anywhere here and will be forgotten near immediately, like everything else that gets left behind in chat history.

[hybrid pasture]

up to a certain point

[summer axle]

yeee it's pretty brutal honestly, especially the mendicant soldiers those things hit like a heccin truck

[pliant lintel]

that's assuming that every single alternative would be of equal value, while in reality, some things are objectively better ways to go.

[boreal forge]

Ain't the only proper Tank class Bromius rn?

[summer axle]

I guess ode temptest too maybe?

[random prism]

Not objectively, that is just you liking one thing more than another.

[summer axle]

tempest*

[pliant lintel]

tempest and tethren. tho to different degrees

[summer axle]

oh yeah tethren

[boreal forge]

Actually, Tethren has damage decrease on Spirit yeah

[hybrid pasture]

ode temepst and bromius are the tank classes

[unique viper]

courage is heavily inclined towards health and physical armor resistance

[summer axle]

that's a thing lol

[boreal forge]

Spirit tanking?...

[hybrid pasture]

tethren is more of berserker

[unique viper]

nah bad idea

[random prism]

I mean Teth does just have a 50% DR they can throw up lol.

Tethren is very martial, not necessarily a defenseless berserker.

[summer axle]

watchu talkin bout willis, my spirit tank build can tank even the strongest boss attacks in mirifuir 🥲 xD

[boreal forge]

Something something just parry

[random prism]

Gitting gud is the best defense, 10/10.

[boreal forge]

Who needs HP amirite?

[summer axle]

just don't get hit tm

[pliant lintel]

it's fixed for now, only the damage boost scales

[summer axle]

hitless MR18 Speedrun inbound lmfao

[boreal forge]

What.

[unique viper]

thanks for the advice guys, helps a lot xD

[boreal forge]

Bruh

[pliant lintel]

i might have misinterpreted what you said

[hybrid pasture]

tethren fits more of a berserker than a tank...

[unique viper]

that's a pretty good point

[pliant lintel]

call of the ancient has both a damage and defense boost, but only the damage boost scales, while the defense boost is a flat buff

[boreal forge]

I ain't build for this, Imma just keep doing my sidesteps into Spectral Attack

And cast GUN

[unique viper]

I was using a garren torment build probably not the best for tank lmao

[summer axle]

https://klipy.com/gifs/meow-cutie--k01KR48Q6SHWJKDZGKHTWYTMTFZ

[boreal forge]

That is NOT garlic

[summer axle]

nono, but if you put them together, you get garlic bread

❤️

[pliant lintel]

used to be better, but yeah, it's not a "tank" and more of a defender type of frontliner. bit of recovery and some good crowd management. still super solid

[random prism]

Huh, they changed the DR to just an armor boost.

Which would strongly lean Teth towrds damage, yeah.

Still, it's something I guess.

[boreal forge]

I haven't finished building Garren yet, but I can't say I feel very tempted by the ability descriptions

It sounds kinda...meh...

[unique viper]

yeah I guess I'm just bad xD

[random prism]

It's an armor boost that lasts far longer than Bromius though. Bromius gives you a giant brick of armor that lasts for a few seconds.

[unique viper]

torment used to be insane

[random prism]

It's a burst skill there.

Prob with Rood is they did something to stampede.

Base damage is hot ass and you need a heavy grace build to make it do anything.

First two skills? Fine on any build.

But you're going like pure grace if you wanna use stampede.

[summer axle]

garren is great, hit enemy that has max hp with 1 ability, they lose like 20% fo their health and you get a heal (it scales betterthe more hp the enemy has) then use 2 to stunlock everything in the vicinity for 5 seconds, angle yourself appropriately to use your 3 to hit everything that you stunlocked = profit

anything that survives, stab

[random prism]

Actually, hit 2 and then 1, get unaware damage, Rood is a grace-themed pact.

[summer axle]

even better lmao

[random prism]

Torment with crit damage usually one-shots any non-boss.

[boreal forge]

Counterpoint: How stab with biwg sword?

[random prism]

Resulting in a full heal.

[summer axle]

I got a video for that lmao

[boreal forge]

Counterpoint: Big bonk better

[summer axle]

couple days old but still satisfying 👌

god they did such a good job with the sound design of greatswords in this, they feel so chunky

[random prism]

Lmao I just pretend kick doesn't exist really.

I just go for a charged heavy.

GS's running charged heavy is pretty dang good.

[boreal forge]

BIWG bonk

[summer axle]

yesssss

https://klipy.com/gifs/pacha-just-right-1--k01KR4926A7T55Z529QSR0RCJDP

[pliant lintel]

don't rely on the ability descriptions, they are... vague. as a "main" (it's complicated), i can better explain:

torment is a big punish ability. it will deal damage based on the current health of enemies, and heal you around that. it is also an ability that will let you interupt ANYTHING. it does have crazy high cooldown tho, du to shovel balancing of the alpha

Behest, the big "everyone STOPS" button. you force everyone around you in a stunned state, letting you do massive daamge on the first hits agaisnt them (as well as doubling torment's damage). it is insane as an ability

Stampede: well, kinda self descriptive.

The passives are pretty meh tho, healheart is messy due to the rune change, and the other is functional(?). the true star tho is that your kick is now a charge,w hich is NUTS for melee setups, as it lets you zoom around

[random prism]

They got rid of the special interaction with torment, now it does not outright get a unique boost from behest.

[pliant lintel]

20%? someone is not playing correctly XD

[random prism]

It still gets unaware damage though, which is... pretty much the same.

Just won't wreck bosses quite as hard.

Cus it aint stacking two boosts now.

[boreal forge]

Carmo gave me the Duelo pact hoping to see me stabbing with a toothpick and instead I'm going around hitting people over the head with a giant slab of metal that barely can cut

[summer axle]

I take it unaware damage can be gotten even if you hit them with the 2 then? does the 2 just stop them being aware of your presence? or is it like a blindness thing lol

I need to play more garren now but I gotta level my other pacts REEE

[random prism]

Also does it actually change the lunge of the kick at all?

Cus kick as is has pretty good innate lunge.

[summer axle]

yeah you get more distance for sure

[boreal forge]

Leveling the other starter classs is going to be soooo boring (⁠╥⁠﹏⁠╥⁠)

[random prism]

Huh, neat.

[summer axle]

I was testing it when I first got the pact

it's not like, a MASSIVE boost, but it exists 👌

[pliant lintel]

but umbra! how esle are you gonna get your mastery!!! you need to force yourself to play something else, otherwise you can't become strong!!! there is no alternative btw, it can only be that

[summer axle]

I knowwwwwwwww it must be done 🥲 but it's okay, once it's done I can just pick whatever I want to use aaaaaaaaa

[pliant lintel]

sirin, yes, oscelda? surprisingly not that bad, tho yeah, still takes a while. me i jsut cheated doing arenas

[summer axle]

I freakin love oscelda

[boreal forge]

I can't find the damn arena

[summer axle]

I think it might be my favorite class to use

[pliant lintel]

can't wait for a change to the leveling pacing

[random prism]

Yes Behest forces unaware.

[boreal forge]

I've been nothing but enter the Glades for 2 days straight

[random prism]

A lot of stuns like that do in this game.

Which is why Torment gets bonus damage from it.

[summer axle]

good to know >:) I shall be abusing that next time I hop on my reindeer cult pact

[pliant lintel]

don't we all. tho, if that can help, you don'T need to rank up everything rn to be ablwe to do stuff. you get plenty of mastery from doing your history motes and discovering places

[summer axle]

someone told me apparently people post arenas in the lfg channel a lot in game

[random prism]

I just spam votives and sieges when they're up lol.

[summer axle]

recruitment i think sorry*

[pliant lintel]

yup

[boreal forge]

Not even a cult, Garren doesn't even fck with you when he offers the pact

[summer axle]

true he was so damn angry

[random prism]

Keeps things fresh. I did Cogah once up to level 95 and level a weapon from 1 to 21 in about like, an hour or so.

I got taught a lesson that day.

Mendicant enemies hurt. A lot.

[summer axle]

LMAO

they really do xD been knocked out of cogah twice to them now

[random prism]

Clubbed over the back of the head like a seal.

[summer axle]

straight up one shots and they weren't even high level they were like 40-50's

I don't get it though cause outside of cogah they slap like wet noodles in comparison xD

it's like DE were like "aight, these specific dudes, they're going to kill some envoys for us"

[random prism]

I think that's everything being a wet noodle and Mendi enemies being a firmer noodle.

[pliant lintel]

they still hurt a lot tho.

[random prism]

This difference isn't really felt, until you scale them.

[boreal forge]

I guess so? Still, if the system ain't changing that means holding on doing it is only going to make a bigger and more threatening backlog the more time passes, which'd just make it even more tiresome

[random prism]

And scale them. And scale them. And keep scaling them.

[summer axle]

yeah nah they do still pack a punch tbf outside of cogah

[random prism]

The difference keeps widening.

[summer axle]

I think at that point it really is safer to just be in a group, tell you what else packs a punch, that weaver boss I forget the name of

good lord those grenades hurt

[pliant lintel]

i mean, yeah, but, as it's an alpha, and essentially EVERYONE has been voicing their concern over the fact that elveling is a pain, it's a very low risk gamble

[random prism]

The weaver can be blitzed though while pretty much ignoring the spiders.

[boreal forge]

He really contemplated letting himself get corrupted again just to spite you that moment

[random prism]

Hop in from above, throw arcanics, rune it, bursted down.

With Knell Knight you run the risk of being clobbered at any given time you do not pay full attention to every enemy.

The mini spiders won't just spontaneously tear your legs off.

[summer axle]

me and my group found a pretty funny strat, using osceldas water passive, you can just keep stoning it and dealing chip damage if you're not doing huge chunks of damage with your setup

bestone my beloved ❤️

[random prism]

Oscelda remains pretty dang good yeah lol.

[pliant lintel]

i mean, saving him is kinda the first thing you do, and thus, still smell like an oden conscript. heck, when it released, the armor you'd be wearong was that of a conscript

[random prism]

Tbh most of the pacts are in a pretty comfy place, there's just like, Sirin and Tempest.

[summer axle]

even if the stone doesn't last as long since it's a boss, it's still enough time to get an attack off and then stone again

[random prism]

Mora's Hand is great and I would play it more were it not for the rune bug.

[summer axle]

true true xD I'd like to think he warms up to you after

[random prism]

Which is aggravatingly consistent.

[summer axle]

I really need to get my hand on moras hand, that and none wyld tethren are the only two I don't have rn

[random prism]

It's a really nice 'caster' pact. Other pacts often have set combos or one skill they use mainly while they use others for support yeah? Like Teth, Bromius, Duelo, etc.

Mora's Hand is Oscelda but purely offensive.

[pliant lintel]

i think it's planned. it would be agisnt the game's narative direction for him not to, as one of the core things is you making up for what the spellsong made you do

[random prism]

You use all 3 arcanics pretty equally and all the time.

You just yeet fire at everything that breathes.

[summer axle]

reading on the wiki about it it just makes me feel like it's going to be pyromancies like in dark souls and I am AAAALLL for that xD

[boreal forge]

Actually, yeah, why do we get banished by the Ode again?

We kinda just do?

[random prism]

Probably breaking out of the mind control.

Punishment: yeet.

[pliant lintel]

still not clear. so far allwe know is that we seem to have been able to free ourselves of the spellsong

[boreal forge]

Why wouldn't they just murk you?...

[pliant lintel]

they did, it jsut failed

[random prism]

I'm convinced it was an attempted execution, falling from that far up is death, and we kind of just wash up on the shore and get brought back to life by a spirit moose.

[white otter]

Makes sense

[summer axle]

yeah the lore is really interesting honestly, I can't wait for them to expand on it 😄

[boreal forge]

Would be a fun twist to why we can access the nighfold and make contact with the ancestors

We ARE dead

[summer axle]

alright guys I gotta hop off, was a pleasure talking with you all tho ❤️ take care!

[white otter]

Fey stuff

[random prism]

We experienced death and can now vibe with the fun other dead people, 10/10.

[pliant lintel]

Like, the odes are kinda dumb, it's jsut that they got the raw power to essentially bypass that. but when they don't, it result in simlple beavers wreaking up their terraformers when an envoy is opening the vents

[boreal forge]

I was actually wondering

The Ode'n are likely immortal no?

Ichor seems to have a knack to bring dead things back after all

And they literally depend on the stuff to live

[random prism]

We don't know that I don't think, at least not for sure. The Mendicant are their own thing that were empowered by the ichor coincidentally.

[pliant lintel]

we aren't we are jsut in touch withour "soul", which is essentially the amalgam of our memories, culture, heritage and all. plus, we are an envoy, we have fey blood

[random prism]

Ancient evils native to Alca took a sip of the funny ode goop and were like 'damn these guys have a point'.

'This shit is tasty'.

[white otter]

intense nom

[white otter]

Kinda doubt that?

[boreal forge]

I mean, so do we eventually

There IS a "Ichor/Corrupted" pact planned for the future

2 in fact

[random prism]

But yeah the Ode need it for their biology, they probably involved alongside it, on a planet suffused with it.

[pliant lintel]

yes and know? we don't know yet, but so far we know that it's more the ichor that corrupt and "revive" things by essentially taking their soul and building around it. the vadagar beast are apparently that, a recreation fo the corrupted omen beast through pure ichor carrying their memory. the mendicant are kind fo the same, but with fallen legends. kind of a metaphor for the corrupting effect of nostaliga, which revives old loved thing in a twisted way

[random prism]

The other spooky shit it does is largely coincidental, it doesn't play nice with Alcan life.

To the Ode, it's just a goop that their biology runs on.

[pliant lintel]

they so like we depend on water. and well, that things sin't making us immortal, isn't it?

[random prism]

So they want it everywhere. In the water table, in the atmosphere, etc.

They breathe it, they need water to have ichor content for them to drink safely, etc.

[boreal forge]

Thing is, certain descriptions like the Wazzard of Wastes explicitly says his spirit was given form by the Ichor

Like, the ghost was materialized, corrupted, but his soul IS supposed to be inside

[random prism]

He could've just been like a bad touch tree people ghost, not able to do much, before he found the ichor and used it to become more readily physical.

We just don't know the specifics yet.

[boreal forge]

I mean, yeah?

That's why it was a theory on my part

[oblique pawn]

The interesting thing is, the Mendicant faction also hints at it somehow predating the ichor. So in a way it sounds like the souls of the Mendicant had to basically choose to be corrupted, as they sought power or vengeance from their former life.

[random prism]

Yeah, the Mendi existed before ichor was introduced to Alca, hence ancient evil native to Alca.

[oblique pawn]

Some dead group of cultists brought back to life because the Ichor offered them power and they took it somehow

[random prism]

I figure it's existing spirits and ghosts that've stuck around now dosing on ichor.

[boreal forge]

Which makes sense because the Medicant king is described as being killed before he even could fight back

Him and his whole faction got DEMOLISHED

No wonder their spirits became rancorous

[pliant lintel]

that's due to the corruption of thie ichor. now, to explain more i'll have to use the real life things the game is a metaphor of. basicly, the ichor is a metaphor for the corrupting effect of colonisation, industrialisation, and well, capitalism. the Ode need it to live, but to us, it jsut destroy everything. the coca cola plant needs to raze forest to build it's new bottling palnt, the coal power plant will ruint your air to make it function, and so on.

[random prism]

I think it's less an offer and more existing spirits learning to take advantage of its properties. The ichor, for the most part, does not appear sapient.

The mendicant were just coincidentally empowered by it.

At least that's what I'm getting thus far.

[oblique pawn]

Plus, it's got a bit of science to it, as it's a form of terraforming. So it's also a critique of humans modifying and terraforming the lands they live in to better suit them, native animals be darned.

[oblique pawn]

Moreso like the Ichor was an opportunity then. Something the dead could claim.

[boreal forge]

Hmmmm, Ichor slushie...

[random prism]

Yeah that's what I was tryna mean. The ichor didn't act like some devil's deal, they just kind of found it and took advantage.

[pliant lintel]

not "humans" tho, but the ideologies, corporate entities and the likes that do. Essentially, the ode are the fusion of Nestle and the british empire

[random prism]

They empowered themselves.

[oblique pawn]

It's interesting because there are other dead spirits, the Mockeries and the ghosts of Clan Jotar, that weren't corrupted, so clearly it's not a "corrupts everything" kinda deal. There has to be some condition that's met, and the mendicant we do know wanted power, badly.

[pliant lintel]

like, humans can coexist with the land, the people of alca did after all, it's sjut the ode needing more

[random prism]

Yeah I figure it's vaguely magic ghosts purposefully taking advantage of the ichor's innate power.

[boreal forge]

Mockeries are described as being way too ancient tho' no? And already have their own shells they inhabit

[random prism]

Not the ichor corrupting everything on contact, but a purposeful use of it.

[oblique pawn]

Them being resurrected is a new phenomenon is the thing

[boreal forge]

But yeah, any "medicant" enemy seems like they purposefully bringing themselves physical form

[oblique pawn]

The ghosts and weapons are ancient, but them inhabiting husks and killing people is a recent thing

Based on the runes their gear is inscribed with

[pliant lintel]

well, there sn't jsut the ode, it's a world with fey bullfrickery mack, so yeah, bad stuff can'T all be ode XD

[boreal forge]

Actually, do we know when the Fey disappeared?

[oblique pawn]

Sometime between a couple hundred and a couple thousand years ago it sounds like.

Nothing specific

[random prism]

We know when Alora did at least, I think, not a concrete year but we know the event that caused it.

[pearl beacon]

That's exactly right (with the exception that we don't know if he 'used' the ichor, or it simply gives things form of its own accord):

Though the ghost of the Wazzard haunted Wevetwood long before the coming of Ode, 'twas the Ichor spills that gave his phantom form.

• from Wazzard's Trunks

[pliant lintel]

alca's immune response, maybe, or something like that. too early to tell tho

[random prism]

Yeah that, neat.

[oblique pawn]

Doubt it. The runes are...not natural.

[boreal forge]

Ain't the world around like, year 800 ?

[oblique pawn]

The translations imply a person doing it

[lilac portal]

Is there where I would go to ask for some help?

[oblique pawn]

Or perhaps a fey

[pliant lintel]

fey bullfrickery it is then

[pearl beacon]

926 on the current calendar, though we don't know what Year 0 was (many suggest the Felling)

[oblique pawn]

But we don't know what the 800 origin point means fully

[oblique pawn]

Wassup?

[boreal forge]

Wouldn't it be around when Alora shaped Midrath?

[tidal island]

hello, what is the best gear for a tank for you ?

[boreal forge]

Year 0 I mean

[random prism]

Nah the entire history of Midrath is longer than just a thousand years.

[pearl beacon]

They are hinted to have disappeared immediately or shortly after the end of the Felling, so it's just about where you'd place the Felling on the calendar

[random prism]

It's just 'current calendar' stuff.

[oblique pawn]

No, we know the Mockeries are older

[boreal forge]

Hmmmm

Ancient story shenanigans...

[pearl beacon]

Idk if the world itself, geologically, being only 926 years old would sit right to me. But yeah, on a fantasy level it is entirely possible for that to be the case

[oblique pawn]

All time is tracked from some major incident.

[lilac portal]

I just started the game so maybe I messed something up, but I haven't been able to get to my nightfold all day. I was fighting this "world boss" and he despawned. My game has been stuck on boss music no matter how many restarts

[pliant lintel]

well, we are bound to know more eventually, as this is an alpha after all, so much more lore will be coming in the future as more content gets added

[frail lynx]

it's a classic homm situation, i wouldn't get surprised if we get the another Gelu running around with a hunk of plutonium calling it "the sword of armageddon"

[oblique pawn]

Possible, but it would mean the Mockeries predate Midrath despite living here

[frail lynx]

ode are larping to keep the locals occupied with "magic" and other nonsense

[pearl beacon]

Do we? The Mockeries are from the Quiet Years, but there's nothing suggesting the Quiet Years took place before Alora's arrival on Midrath

[boreal forge]

Who knows really

[oblique pawn]

Have you tried relogging?

[pliant lintel]

that can only means one thing.....

[oblique pawn]

Isn't some of the gear said to be over a millenia old?

[pliant lintel]

https://klipy.com/gifs/sml-t-rex-4--k01KR4ATAJCDZBDVTB1G9VJSGTV

[boreal forge]

Actually hilarious to think about how the hell the Ode captured Alora

[pliant lintel]

THEY ARE DINOSAURS!!!!!

[pearl beacon]

That's why I disagree with their theory that year 0 is creation of the world - for me, year 0 has to be some sort of event such as the Felling

[random prism]

Well midrath isn't the world, it's the island.

[oblique pawn]

If we're at 900 years, that places the Mockeries prior to the formation of Midrath if that was in year 0

[random prism]

Did Alora shape midrath or alca.

[boreal forge]

Uuuh

[random prism]

Alca is the planet.

[quick thicket]

do we even have a timeline of alca's history

with dates and such for every notable event

[oblique pawn]

Which doesn't fully make sense, how would a people have landed on Midrath before Midrath existed.

[oblique pawn]

We have a series of events with a dependency order and a could set dates

[frail lynx]

very loosely, and that's by design - ode are removing all the concurrent records

[quick thicket]

yeah but was it all consolidated somewhere for convenience

[oblique pawn]

But many have ranges of 50+ years in which they could have occured

[pliant lintel]

tho, i wonder how much of the lore is "final".

[frail lynx]

we have zero clue about things occuring in the first place. It's all ode propaganda and wazzard agenda and shaman songs

[oblique pawn]

No, some of it we know is true

[pearl beacon]

I can't find the word millenia specifically, but certainly centuries (whenever the Quiet Years were, essentially!) Alora arrived long before that in my opinion - around that 'era of ancients' time mentioned in Oro's lore - the only question is whether the Quiet Years were immediately after the Felling, or maybe before it

[oblique pawn]

The Histories are reclaimed parts of our history

[frail lynx]

we don't know that for sure, and we don't know the context of these occurances

[oblique pawn]

True, though considering the Mockeries might have had a voyage to Midrath, would say prior, perhaps even prior to the oldest records of human-fey battles

[pearl beacon]

Midrath only (she swam in a sea that already existed, to an isle that already existed, and just shaped groves/dells/beaches)

[somber bear]

@pearl beacon 1v1 me on Alca Guesser.

[random prism]

Neat.

[pearl beacon]

Alcaguessr is new regatta PvP, you're on bro

[oblique pawn]

...Orlick himself says they are histories reclaimed, so I'd say that's fairly solid supporting evidence.

[frail lynx]

and what's the agenda of a two bodied perpetual in all of that?

[chrome idol]

guys, i might be gojo

[oblique pawn]

We don't know the full context around them, but certain elements do create a set of dependencies.

[chrome idol]

how tf do i get out

[oblique pawn]

Bro's literally a historian who died right before all of written history was lost.

[somber bear]

/unstuck

[oblique pawn]

His agenda is literally to write a book

As far as we know

[pearl beacon]

We almost do, we're just figuring out how to get it formatted nicely (it can't just be a wiki page with paragraphs, we want it to look nice with a central line etc). But this is a rough shape of how things may look

[chrome idol]

doesnt work

[somber bear]

I may have an idea for how to do that tbh

You're cooked 💀

[frail lynx]

we do not have the explanation of what those spirits actually are. We have no idea of their nature or if this state is reversable (or is a mid point towards some other transformation)

[hybrid pasture]

it would be funny if paragon talisman give 9 9 9 virtues

[chrome idol]

https://tenor.com/view/ash-baby-ash-baby-silly-gif-11511986892593940244

[misty veldt]

So apparently a shadow nerf for magic stuff
They cant headshot now is that true?

[pearl beacon]

True however it's unknown yet if bug or intentional

[oblique pawn]

...They are quite literally called Histories by the game

[somber bear]

you call it shadownerf... It can easily by a bug

[misty veldt]

Man grace being worthless becomes truer by the minute

[oblique pawn]

Also, the lore given is supported by voice lines from the Anscestors

[somber bear]

99% chance it is a bug, because they don't do shadow nerfs

[oblique pawn]

Aka ghosts who lived through some of those time periods

[pearl beacon]

Wym? Grace is extremely busted to the point that non-grace builds are suffering https://youtu.be/LBmee15KRtA

[frail lynx]

again, what is a ghost in alca?

[somber bear]

Good enough, welcome back courage grace meta

[quick thicket]

that's a great start! just needed to know if it was a thing or not

[hybrid pasture]

but its not just magick weapons, melees also can't headshot with normal swings anymore and bow damage multiplier calculation got changed

[oblique pawn]

Except it doing grace scaling headshot damage might have been a bug. It did headshot pre-p13 but it might not have been meant to have the grace scaling bonus

[somber bear]

either or, there would be a mention either as a bugfix or as a change

[oblique pawn]

The Ancestors? They're the spirits of those who came before, often troubled and in need of guidance or support.

[misty veldt]

They arnt suffering
Im still using a courage build and killing everything pretty damn fast
"Funny numbers" arnt the same as efficiency

[oblique pawn]

Eh, they've missed patch notes before.

[hybrid pasture]

well, they are called ancestors but orlick is only 128 years ago

[oblique pawn]

Definitely report it just in case it is a bug, but it might not be and if so it just never gets fixed.

[frail lynx]

i didn't ask who they were, or even how they came to be, even though these are interesting questions. I am asking what they are

[pearl beacon]

They are if you use headshots: https://discord.com/channels/998758139405029478/1500053000658616430

[oblique pawn]

...Ghosts?

Spirits?

[misty veldt]

Which now only bows can do that

[oblique pawn]

Those are pretty firmly known to exist in Alca generally.

[pearl beacon]

and one is a camel!

[pliant lintel]

well, to me it's more of an argon scope/memeing strike again. there is one annoying strat that is busted, but jsut normal use is fine. Like, just like argon scope, going full grace isn't really beneficial unless you genuinly only do headhsots

[misty veldt]

Lowkey bows arnt fun
Dont let people gaslight u

[somber bear]

is it the camel or... The beard eye...?

[oblique pawn]

Ghosts just seem to be the lingering spirits of the dead, often having either a task or regret keeping them here.

[hybrid pasture]

they pretty much nerfed courage and spirit bows, and made you pretty much must play grace to use bows... that just kills build variety overall, they should address it, or just call it a bug and revert it

[hybrid pasture]

zenith

[oblique pawn]

Fenn Jotar is haunted by guilt, Tuvulkane by feelings of worthlessness.

The Circade by vengeance

[frail lynx]

and Gelu was known to wield The Sword of Armageddon that could fall entire armies. Which turned out to be a subcritical hunk of plutonium, carved with slits, that released rays lethal from up to 100 meters

do not forget what kind of a setting this is

[oblique pawn]

...I'm confused what your point is.

Are you trying to claim the ghosts are some kind of Ode hologram?

[hybrid pasture]

since Ode can be pull smite, does that mean its possible to have an ode ancestor 💀

[random prism]

I don't see how the two things are related.

[oblique pawn]

Because we have seen basically no evidence of something like that being the case thus far.

[pliant lintel]

that is meta slave reasoning tho. bows still do decent with body shots. playing courage melee is jsut fine, it's sjut that the big headshot damage are with ppure grace, but again, it's jsut argon scope all over again. it's only good if you are actually jsut doing headshots, otherwise it'S shooting yourself in the foot

[pearl beacon]

send me your room code I wanna see how bad I can do 😂

[oblique pawn]

Since Ode can be smote the implication is they have a soul maybe?

[misty veldt]

Lowkey change how should grace works
Like let it buff movement speed and attack speed
And give bows/magic weapons unique headshot multies per weapon(depending on fire rate, damage, etc)

[hybrid pasture]

no, they made courage and spirit scales wayyyy less in the formula, but a LOT higher grace headshot multiplier

[random prism]

The ancestors we draw from are those who came before us on Alca, those who have skills that we have need of.

[frail lynx]

i am "claiming" that we have no idea what any of those are. And if anyone has any idea it's ode, but they are busy larping to brainwash everyone into thinking it's all magic woodo bombaclatt

[boreal forge]

Actually, can you headshot with magic projectiles?

[random prism]

The Ode are pretty categorically excluded from that.

[boreal forge]

Wait, what

[somber bear]

I lowkey wanted to know if I can send it in here 👀(you can, but I won't)

[boreal forge]

You...think the magic in the game isn't actually magic?...

[pearl beacon]

And if anyone has any idea it's ode, but they are busy larping to brainwash everyone into thinking it's all magic woodo bombaclatt

Yes we know the ghosts of Alca are not Ode in origin:

[misty veldt]

TRUE
Players in this game need to stop being sheep to the bow youtuber

[hybrid pasture]

to answer that, we need to know what "magic" of soulframe is

[pearl beacon]

https://klipy.com/gifs/doja-cat-8--k01KR4BRDFFTE5R8BH49G7RY91X

[oblique pawn]

That...seems unlikely since from what we can tell the Ode themselves use magic

[boreal forge]

Ya'll use bows?...

[frail lynx]

they sure call it magic

[hybrid pasture]

I can parry with bows just fine, whats your issue?

[misty veldt]

Bows are slow
Clunky
Not fun
Yes i do use them im having to level them for mastery

[oblique pawn]

We kinda do? It seems to be produced by celestial bodies or constellations then refined by powerful beings attuned to those bodies

[random prism]

Bows can also just block, I like playing with Avex.

[patent arrow]

Still no mounts

[somber bear]

@oblique pawn can I send the geo guesser clone I made for Soulframe in #envoy-creations ? 🤔

[boreal forge]

If Bow good, then why can't bow bonk?

[pliant lintel]

barely less. like, it's genuinly nothing, especially once you reach the attunement cap. it's legit only headshots that are problematic, you can literally do everything with a spirit courage build. you aren't dying because youa ren'T using a super grace ehadshot bow. again, meta slave behavior

[hybrid pasture]

well I played earlier preludes, and completely missed the new tutorial storyline so idk

[random prism]

Hey Avex can shank people.

[oblique pawn]

Seeing as none of the lore supports this, and believing it would basically invalidate the information we do have, personally gonna reject the theory until it has supporting evidence.

[pliant lintel]

don't start trashing sara

[oblique pawn]

Proving a negative is impossible.

[oblique pawn]

It's actually from gear and location lore

[patent arrow]

Honestly hitting some with a bow would most likely break the limb

[hybrid pasture]

the older damage formula works just fine, pretty balance across all 3 virtues

[oblique pawn]

Uhhh...good question.

[random prism]

It's still a severe unbalancing that needs to be addressed though, so it's good to point it out.

[boreal forge]

Man, we already have Soulframe boomers huh...

[random prism]

And bows get most of their damage via headshot either way.

[boreal forge]

That's so strange

[somber bear]

This one is not grey area, it's 100% standalone, like Buddy.

[sturdy geyser]

But is it a drawing

[random prism]

And Grace's crit multi being cracked also affects arcanics.

Like using forced unaware to crit one-shot a boss via finisher.

Just with a shortblade even. And stuff like Mora's 3 and Duelo's 1.

[somber bear]

It's art, in a way. I'm just not that good with drawing lol

[oblique pawn]

Creations is really meant for artistic and creative media, so just unsure where a minigame would fall.

[boreal forge]

Fishing

[random prism]

Lmao.

[somber bear]

Are games art? 🤔

[random prism]

Actually mentioned as eventually being a thing, I think? Maybe?

[pearl beacon]

It's be similar to the other sites in creations no? #envoy-creations message #envoy-creations message

[hybrid pasture]

its mainly that bows are just not that reliable on courage or spirit builds, since some bows don't use grace attunement

[boreal forge]

"Envoy flavor" fishing

[oblique pawn]

Personally would say so? Let's go with a yes for now.

[pearl beacon]

let's playy!!!!

[somber bear]

I think you guys will actually like it, it's fun.

[boreal forge]

So probably like, koy fishing, with small nets

[oblique pawn]

As Drackore mentioned we do have other sites and it is you making something, so that should be enough.

[boreal forge]

So we pick the fish and clean them and yeet them back

[pearl beacon]

-# and I suck at it 😭

[hybrid pasture]

wouldn't that just make them get corrupted again

[boreal forge]

We...uh...give them a fey kiss and now they immune

[random prism]

I mean ichor isn't everywhere, so not likely.

Curing and releasing means they will probably not get corrupted again.

If they did immediately that'd mean we already lost.

[hybrid pasture]

water flows VERY far

[random prism]

Cus the Ode have successfully terraformed the entire planet.

[boreal forge]

The Ode do sound like they have a fat advantage

[random prism]

Ichor also doesn't reproduce like a virus.

[hybrid pasture]

I Mean, think of the garbage in our ocean, its pretty much the same, they can really flow

[random prism]

They have to manually introduce it into the environment, it doesn't just... grow.

So sure, water will flow, and ichor will be diluted into nonreaction.

It is a substance, not an infection.

[lilac portal]

yeah, that all ive been doing really, Ive been running around and I kind of lost where I was on the map before as well

[pliant lintel]

oh yes but at the same time, saying everything else is dead is jsut incorrect. i keep refering to argon scope for a reason, it's because people acted the exact same around it, while it only took a few months for the craze to die down because people realized relying purely on headshots was boring

[pliant lintel]

the older formula still only used grace for scaling, it was jsut less reliant on it.

[misty veldt]

Shes a good youtuber
But shes lowkey just gaslighting people on grace

[oblique pawn]

Might be worth checking your journal for active quests

[hybrid pasture]

still better than room nuking era now

[boreal forge]

Actually, the Ode spear tree thing does say it kinda just spills Ichor forth doesn't it? Huh...

[random prism]

Duhk Halic is also very obviously a piece of incredibly advanced magic shenanigans.

So that probably checks out.

[hybrid pasture]

Duhk Halic is everywhere

[oblique pawn]

Isn't Duhk Halic just a big pointy stick?

[random prism]

I mean, it's an extremely corrupting stick that they mass produce to stab things with.

[hybrid pasture]

its planted in the world trees, tormented/vadarga stags

[oblique pawn]

Fair enough

[lilac portal]

I have these, I dint even see that bird button before tho. Is it this quest

[hybrid pasture]

they basically stab anything big with it to corrupt

[oblique pawn]

Yeah you have a few there

[hybrid pasture]

click the sparrow icon to track

[pliant lintel]

that's not what gaslighting means. and she is also kinda right rn, because, yes, if you are doing a headhsot build, you are penalized for doing anything but grace due to overscaling with the virtue

[quick thicket]

i always thought the ichor was kinda self-propagating

[somber bear]

damn, that's an awful take...

[quick thicket]

the Ode introduces the Ichor, which is how we get Mendicants corrupted beings, who themselves spread it further

[boreal forge]

We do see it everywhere

[pliant lintel]

that's irrelevant?

[quick thicket]

actually no hang on

[random prism]

They wouldn't need to dump it into the water constantly then, nor would Organs have trouble not having enough of it in the water table to pull up and spew into the atmosphere, needing the woodchippers for supplemental on-site ichor production.

[quick thicket]

mendicants existed before the ode. nvm (edited above msg)

[boreal forge]

But like, there's gotta be a way to stop the Ichor

Otherwise we cooked

And we do know we got to purify The Stick

[misty veldt]

Yeah but building for grace on anything but a headshot build isnt worth

[boreal forge]

Which is a tool used to corrupt other things

[hybrid pasture]

maybe the ichor spreads very slowly, but spreads nontheless

[plush rose]

seathirn is wetttt

[random prism]

Building for grace on many things works fine, at worst equally. Without bows at all it has been used to make boss-oneshot builds.

[boreal forge]

Actually, the description of The Stick says it poisons the guys who use them too? Aren't...the Odes like, living on the stuff?

[random prism]

Use Sirin or Duelo to force unaware.

Stabstabstab with a shortblade, boss dead.

[boreal forge]

Is that like drinking too much water and dying from Water Poisoning?

[random prism]

Its scaling climbs way too high right now.

[pliant lintel]

someone forgot that grace scale more than jsut headshots. Like, come on

[random prism]

And grace weapons don't work any worse than any other, they just work normally.

[misty veldt]

Which can be done with spirit and courage too

[random prism]

No, no it cannot.

[coral thorn]

I killed 2 bosses with low lvl weaps to see his hp bar grey and I had lot of fun! it feels like hardcore mode better than cogah 😄

[somber bear]

Uh... That's also a crazy take, as almost any weapon can be thrown and potentially headshot lol