The current state of the game is unacceptable

[prisma haven]

I said editing was this week

so final prep and release next week

[prime smelt]

I mean, there are ways to still keep the communication going, some companies tease stuff that is coming up years later

[prisma haven]

agreed

for larger grand scale ideas

absolutely

vision needs to be communicated

[prime smelt]

Not if you're fast enough, and lighthouse proc once, not three times

[rose hill]

Yeli to trigger Aya with reaper and then poof 😭

[prisma haven]

anyways we wont gain anything from going over the same recycled points

just gotta wait for ss2 stuff to announce

im as impatient as everyone else

[prime smelt]

Can't come fast enough dude, and thanks for the chat, helped a lot ❤️

[prime smelt]

Again, if you're fast enough they can't cut

[rose hill]

The Aya and Plumes in high mythic are fast! Like 320-330 fast with BB!

And if you make dps “fast” then they hit BBs like a wet noodle 🤣

[pallid canopy]

the whole week? thats some crazy shit going on

[prime smelt]

Yeah and 3 dps with 280 speed that get 92% turn meter spread between them, won't be cut

[rose hill]

But XD loves to recycle their events! Badum! 🤣

[prisma haven]

you must not be familiar with the media and gaming industry at all

pvs, visuals, overlays, everything is being prepped and organized by multiple people and teams

takes time

so yes it takes a week or week and a half to put it together

[prime smelt]

When should the hypertalk come out? Roughly?

[prisma haven]

by next friday I believe

they had us change one part today they added more to the script and didnt tell us lol so had to film another part

[rose hill]

I hope so… season ends next Sunday

[prisma haven]

but they are alr in process of editing snd doing everything else

[rose hill]

For the better?!!!

[prisma haven]

yes

lol

but that's what I mean about

them always changing stuff last minute and

being all over the place

it's really hard in operations

[rose hill]

Next level communication problem when even employees are kept in the dark?! 🤣

Only one way to fix this. Give Twinky a max dev account! It’s the only way.

[prisma haven]

there's just many diff teams

between marketing operations devs

so they forgot to give us the update as it was super last minute either that or they changed it after we filmed idk

we good though doesnt interrupt the process at all

just maybe a little less perfect of a video

🤣

[rose hill]

Just hire me as an employee! Communication will be solved ASAP!
Imma leak everything the day I hear anything! Boom! Fixed.

[austere raptor]

Idt they can do hyper talk weekly but dev notes should be weekly or biweekly like in other games.

These devs still stuck in 2009

[valid skiff]

😂

[dreamy yacht]

Let's be real 😂 If they mess anything up, this community will 1000% bring it up and overblow it. We can give them the week to edit it

[pallid canopy]

theres barely any community left to care about that

[rose hill]

I meant one of those three should always be up every week. So patch notes can be bi-weekly, dev notes bi-weekly when patch notes are not up. Then HyperTalks once a month. Something like that so that every week we at least gets some info from devs every week.

[dapper reef]

I still don't believe Yeli was shadowed tbh

[rose hill]

The 60% FUA? Yeah no way it was supposed to be a constant 60%!

[prisma haven]

this makes more sense

[rose hill]

Make it happen!!!

[ionic dust]

dev talk next week>into balance patch notes>season goes live>new LD warps the meta again(potentially)>xD on holiday break with no communication. i can already see it

track record not in xD's favour. so far they have always had an excuse as to why they cant communicate more. and the timing this go around isnt gonna help their case either

[green meadow]

Just simple shit too, like can someone be like "yes this is exactly what we wanted raymerry should absolutely 1v4!" Even if we dont agree with launches/balance decisions, like things need to be acknowledged

Like can someone just say yes, tiamat works exactly how we designed her too on amber!

[pliant heart]

We all gotta accept the fact that cn is their priority and global is just waiting for its inevitable black beaconing.

Eos2026

[hollow orbit]

It's the weekend with 2x and global hasn't even had 203 revived.

People aren't playing anymore...

[mellow hearth]

They don’t need to talk every week or so. Just need to make sure that when they talk, it’s actually something good. Which en lies the problem

[pliant heart]

Let me prompt in chat gpt to write a dev log to assure the players we are working hard on the game for global - XD

[dire fossil]

yea their big bimonthly patch notes are still like vague af

[green meadow]

You pulling for these Witcher collab units?

Kinda not interested tbh

[dapper reef]

Witcher collab units are some of my favs in SW

[green meadow]

Theyre dropping in sword next week but theyre rumored to not be that strong despite looking cool so I dk

[nova cargo]

Aint its like too late now?

[austere raptor]

Its for cn not for u global plebs

[nova cargo]

Fair

[dark sandal]

Maybe the real benefitters of er were the account sellers on social media all along

[fallen roost]

Last time people crashed out when they said that

Revelation Freya was working as intended

I'll glaze you for the rest of the year if you make the devs delete champion's call

[rustic walrus]

so a month and spare of glazing....

[fallen roost]

Pretty good offer

[feral hare]

Game is pretty much dead if the hypertalk is a%* like always. We have the same problems since the beginning and its not getting better. Sadly the game is good, but the devs are just a%* and thats the simply truth.

Just take a look how czn handle such things. Nonstop communication, week for week useful updates, they are talking about future Updates, full refund for heroes (exp system) etc. Its just another League as this here.... such a sad story.

[dark sandal]

Good to see you are still here

[rose swallow]

You are right, i dont like CZN, but their devs are on point with balance updates and communication

[iron shale]

i made a very similar post a few weeks ago, after they released Aya and Raymerry wich kind of sealed the deal for every person that doesn't play bruiser, but seing the new diting being released felt to me like someone was spiting on my face, ngl. At this point, it is crystal clear that they don't care about cleave, nor CC for that matter. The only thing i'am waiting for is the upcoming patchnote and future LD characters just to see what's up and if they're going to be of any help in the meta. If the devellopers don't want to promote fast gameplay, i just hope they'll have the decency of communicating in that regard and not waste my time. The last couple of banners were dedicated to bruisers despite the fact they were already extremely dominant, the last 2 wishbinder event were for bruisers only and they both had tiamat in the chest, so all of this to me feels like they are clearly pushing a specific playstyle which doesn't catter to everybody, sadly. I don't like games that last for ages, but i understand that nobody wants to die without being able to act, even tho Aya and Raymerry already solved that problem on their own, with a bit of help from mister Reapersteps and Amber. I've reached a point where i have zero expectations, because there's been absolutely nothing that has been said for all of those people who don't want to play bruiser and are just putting the game on hiatus right know due to the fact the meta became completely disgusting for them to play in. This is a PVP game, and PVP is all about balance, if my pool of character is getting shat on by modules, shells, passive AOE, the only conclusion i can reach is that there is no point for me to try and compete in a game that clearly doesn't like the fact i'am playing characters that are actively trying to win.

[iron shale]

what turns me off even more is the fact i spent 13000 stamina hoping to get a few swiftrush with main stat EFF ACC, and to my surprise i got 0. Last event i spent 15 000 stamina and only got one or 2 from memory, so at this point i am genuinely wondering if they nerfed the droprate for those, because statistically speaking it's impossible to not get at least a few of those during a galore event. If modules farming is that bad for speed player i don't see how it's going to benefit the game, and that's not even taking into account that you still need to get the good rolls on these almost inexistant modules

[thin imp]

Its not bruiser or cleave thats played now, its bruiser cc or cc cleave or pure cc. Cc is the only way to deal with raymerry unfortunately so bruiser players have to play it

Raymerry also completely warped first pick and just makes first pick so powerful and often ur forced to ban first picks instead of 4 5 but then when they pick 4 5 cc units all of a sudden raymerry has to be let thru or u wont ever get a turn anyways

And then theres also thr fact that if you know ur vs bruiser u preban fuq when ur fp so fp becomes insanely advantaged. There's then the option of fp plume which allows for all sorts of pivots. The 3 premiere first picks rn are ray fuq plume. They realistically work in every draft. Yes people play cc with fuq too. Honestly pure clrave is the only thing that is eating shit if messiah is prebanned but most cleave players have cc in their pool by now.

[dry hull]

bro its not a spit in the face. these characters are in a pipeline.

yall legit jusy need to save all your tickets and gems for when a busted turn 1 comes out. just relax

[dark sandal]

Turn 1 needs 2 more massiah

[dry hull]

i agree. but i think you guys are gonna get more and should be saving up to max dupe them when they come around.

half ani is coming soon and i wouldnt be suprised if its another massiah

[pliant heart]

Thats copium at this point lmao

They devs are pushing hard one style of play and it shows with them recommending bb on new units

They even suggested bb on a pseudo hybrid dps cc unit nevette shows they want only one style of play to be prevalent.

[dark sandal]

And next LD might be a healer

[rose hill]

So I kinda wish XD goes all in with bruiser with next LD and patch so I can quit.
Then only one playstyle - bruisers!

[heady wasp]

bruisers vs the world

[pliant heart]

https://tenor.com/view/predator-arnold-schwarzenegger-hand-shake-arms-gif-3468629

Xd pls make it so even trash ass bruiser players with 0 investment can kill both cleave and cc . 🙏

[dry hull]

brother please just think for one second. is it a good idea to force a game to play one way or is it more profitable to support every playstyle? They have a pipeline and will get to it.

[heady wasp]

its understandable for people to be frustrated. it would be one thing if every drop alternated between playstyles but its been bruiser Ws for the last 3. all things considered though, we're due for the tides to turn

[austere raptor]

Of course they have a pipeline, but their pipeline is beyond braindead.

[thin imp]

I mean they just released two cc units basically, raymerry has cc too, they are just promoting bruiser cc and its pretty toxic to play rta rn. Its cc or lose

Cleave outside of messiah is completely non existent but cc is so rampant. People cc regardless of playstyle bc of how strong it is and it completely supplements ur draft. Cleansers are pure rng and theres enough pushback mechanics in lilith and holden and mio to where youll never even see the day of light with alicorn.

[rose hill]

Let’s see the last 5-6 months:

Hoyan and Holden: Hoyan is a counter for CC and non-mass cleave. Holden is a core bruiser
Yeli: became irrelevant with rev nerf and further more with reapersteps
Nahor and FU: Nahor was useless at release but one of the best CC after buff. FU needs no explanation.
Liliam: works better with bruisers to counter cc
Batsy and Ninfo: neither are really seen in PvP
Plume: better with bruiser and reaper step/vero/counters makes her a liability for T1.
Aya and Kok: both works better for bruisers…
Raymerry: no need to say more
Diting and Nevette: TBD but initial assessment seems better for T2
Reapershell, Ali buff, and codex nerf all benefits T2…

Most of the last 2 balance patch was a buff for T2 too. I think only the Nahor buff was better for T1 that is relevant in the meta right now.

I mean basically the last 5-6 months of “pipeline” has been for bruisers…could easily be just being biased or missed some stuff.

[pallid canopy]

hoyan counter for cc?

[dark sandal]

She gets cc ed in first place

[dry wadi]

T1 just contest spd and no brain play. Just spam s3…
T2 Need brain.
End of debat

[pliant heart]

https://tenor.com/view/you-serious-are-you-serious-j-jonah-jameson-jk-simmons-spiderman-gif-1796285034125157331

Buddy this aint chess.

[nova cargo]

Hes not really wrong

But sometimes its not a chess

[fringe turret]

This. Id also argue raymerry is significantly stronger for T2 against T1 then she is for T1 against T2. Cause a T1 team is dead when she moves. Not the same for T2 team when she moves in a T1 team. I think the only real addition that has genuinely helped T1 more is Nahor. Liliam works well with cc, but id pick others over her if i am given the chance. But cc team kinda forced to pick her so that opp doesnt get to pick her.

Also i dont trust dev pipeline, they said 2 CC is coming to help and in the end we get diting and nevette. Nevette is just meh, and diting doesnt really help T1. Id rather just use a hard cc to cc stuff thats on reaper w/o bulwark in his place.

Look at the kits of all these RGB bruisers and compare them to RGB pure atk scaling DPS, its just dumb. Aside from being tanky and dealing tons of damage, the RGB bruisers also have so much utility packed in their kits.

[west ferry]

every playstyle incorporates cc now into their draft

even bruiser mirror one person always end up picking cc in 4/5, and the other has to counter it

[dark sandal]

That means cc units are more on demand time to print more cc

[rustic walrus]

holden is a bruiser and cc draft unit
Yeli still one shots def scalars unless you wreck their builds and intentionally add in hp right side. Ronny literally on screen almost had his lilith (hp scalar) get one shot by non attack up yeli (yeli only got 1 arrow off, lilith dies of second arrow if it landed)
nahor is nahor, fuqiu is primarily a bruiser unit agreed(though again its very easy to add in cc pivots whether or not she is in team)
lilliam is primarily a cleave dps in todays meta, she just dies if she tries to counter cc players. worst you can argue is she is used in bruiser mirrors to punish 1 dps comps. As a cleave dps she literally one shots everything in game, outspeeding or tiamat with her amber interaction are her only counters .
batsby and ninfo are trash
aya is literally either prebanned by cc/cleave players or used by them 90% of the time they can get her for her insane early push she isnt some bruiser only unit. Kok you can argue is a bruiser only unit...but hes only a unit for niche bruiser mirrors. He cant be picked into cleave/cc units because again, tissue paper durability
raymerry is a unit thats fp by literally every player of every playstyle. arguing she is a 'bruiser unit' is just reductive

and yes, cc units warp every bruiser mirror draft. if anything cc is the dominant playstyle today( other than raymerry fp)

[hearty acorn]

raymerry can be used by anyone but her best team is t2 and it's not close

[fringe turret]

Yea

[nova cargo]

Let me pick nevette in pease

[echo dawn]

I just started this game but I see many content creators left the game and people are angry about it. Is it still worth it to try to work through it? Do you think the current state will be fixed in a couple of months or is the game dying already?

[pliant heart]

If you chinese game will be fixed, if you not chinese then its already gg

[hearty acorn]

there's a new season of pvp in a week which will come with a balance patch, the game has been badly balanced for multiple months now in favor of one playing style, many people are waiting for the patch to see if they can balance out the meta. If they don't, there will likely be an exodus of players (another). Whether that means the game dies after that is impossible to say.

[pliant heart]

Yeah holding out to see if the game improves and there is balance between styles, t2 just has too much going for it to make it easier to win rn so if the devs dont address the t2 disparity then its time for cleavers and cc players like me to drop the game

[split nymph]

i'd argue she was designed to be t2, but aint no t2 team is beating her just like t1 isnt beating her has nothing to do with which side she is on shes just broken.
I went on a 5game loss streak against one of the jp cc cleavers who droped ray fp and i couldnt beat it as her scalings with a cc cleave are disgusting. its a similar scenario to plume just the other way round.

Ray was desgined for t2 but so broken that shes just fp on both.

Plume was designed for t1, but so broken she is picked in both.

[hearty acorn]

yup, just treading water til we find out

[thin imp]

Literally and if u dont join the cc players ur just falling behind in the meta and its all just speed checks

[pliant heart]

Speed checks? Just draft freya on 3p with bulwark, that's all the slowass mfers been doing

[thin imp]

Also like ray surely loses to Lilith except randomly ray can s1 beamble stun lilith into lilith cant even s2 anymore

[hearty acorn]

for sure she is fp for any playstyle but bruisers can withstand her attacks easier when facing her and sustain/cleanse her easier when using her, she's a t2 unit who can be used by t1

[split nymph]

also the whole t1 is weak propaganda is wild i win basically against every top t2 player in the last 50 games with 80% wr outside of kekker, while the ones that keep me in check are the t1 cc players.
I think cleave just lacks options when mass is banned, but cc cleave insanely strong if drafted correctly

[west ferry]

lilith two ER checks

[hearty acorn]

or reaper aya

[split nymph]

there is no unit in the game that can sustain her onslaught, its like mass double pump just she doesnt need beyo for it

[thin imp]

The cc players that draft 1 or 2 cc units on 5 lol not the full on t1 cc, they preban freya sometimes now or they pivot to t2 and then im now the cc player

[pliant heart]

Yeah just easily allows u to win against strippers like hein and plume without putting any effort

[split nymph]

only way u beat ray is through cc, she statchecks everyone else

[pliant heart]

Add bulwark and cc has to go thru that and strive with reaper

[thin imp]

Im forced to play cc to deal with ray

Yes u are talking about specific scenarios that affect ur draft as a pure cc player. But once u splash in some t2 units all of a sudden that shit is ass

[pliant heart]

Well they already open the floodgates that is raymerry, didnt need to release that unit but here we are

[thin imp]

There is no current functional cleanser. Ray forces cc or ur post banning her

Ray fp also lets u preban fuq ans force ur opponent into a preban ray or eat shit

[split nymph]

ur reaction to a top player beating basically every t2 player, but only beeing kept in check by the jp t1 players and u still not having figured out how to deal with reaper steps just screams skill issue to me im sorry.

[pliant heart]

Yeah im forced to ban her cause i would rather just ban tia on 3p since the braindead play of amber + 4 healers

[thin imp]

Reaper aya is the thing i want to see the most locked in

[pliant heart]

Reaper and alicorn buff was a mistake

[thin imp]

It is the most worthless thing against the best cc units

Whats scariest about trying to play cc is when you get outsped or miss 10% from my experience of trying to play cc vs raymerry

[pliant heart]

Yeah same as amber against cleave being useless. Just draft wound when the opps ban hein and steal mio

[thin imp]

Brother I am a t2 player that is happy to see reaper aya locked bc that means its nahor time

[pliant heart]

These people dont feel the need to put er on their units and it shows when they put on shit like reaper steps and alicorn

[split nymph]

if u have liliam draft her she counters amber too, if u dont have her then its rough but still doable

[thin imp]

Alicorn and reaper both have their weaknesses, atp people preban freya or doki if they know u have fast doki etc

[pliant heart]

What if ur opps has multiple amber and they ban out wound units

[split nymph]

also what needs to be considered aswell is any player who puts amber on units outside of tia, ray & lily, might have better chances against t1, but will get eaten alive by t2 coz he has amber instead of artisan on holden for example

[thin imp]

And t1 standard players are rhe most likely to have amber on more units than not btw

[split nymph]

i can only speak for the high ranks tho, i heard in medium ranks ppl spam amber quite a bit, in high ranks amber is only picked on those 3 and ray is fp and tia banned more often than not

[thin imp]

Bc they play t1 cc units with t2 amber units

[pliant heart]

Amber, reaper and alicorn are just stupid shit the game didnt need to add.
Ofcourse cause the high rank is dominated mainly by bruisers which means amber is weak against artisan

[thin imp]

Like thats what I've seen from people when I freya lock they pivot into stuff like rahu holden on ambers. These are t1 players that do these holden rahu ambers.

[pliant heart]

Since you speak about high rank u can confirm that bruiser is heavily favoured style by the devs since amber isnt a issue in a bruiser v bruiser match which most people high up play along with bb cc bruiser hybrid

[split nymph]

what would be ur solution to stop a nahor with all those options gone? coz quite frankly even full effres nahor mathematically speaking hits the freeze and dbreak 95% of time

[thin imp]

Cc is currently the most played its always finding itself to control the whole match by itself if there arent 3+ cleansers + the classic raymerry fp dilemma

[pliant heart]

Bulwork stops nahor or cleanser, now if you having trouble with that unit cause of ur draft then its better to ban it.

[split nymph]

if u have trouble with aya then ban it

[thin imp]

Im seeing more and more cc players leave open aya or yoink it themselves

[split nymph]

healblock stops amber

[thin imp]

I feel like ur only talking about the specific full drafts that stop your draft bc you may not have the full correct speed tuning

[split nymph]

u get what im trying to say here?

[thin imp]

Properly speed tuned t1 teams with all the options available to you lose by 10% not really anything else.

And t2 players can randomly use a nahor too it dorsnt have to be full of cc draft, cc is easy to pivot into bc bulwark is really only on specific units in t2 and u just cc the dps if theres no cleanser/enough cleansers

There is no shortage of mio nahor lilith merchants on 3 4 5

[trim frost]

let see the balance patch
amber n ray should be nerf

[thin imp]

The moment I dont see a cleanser locked in and im like I can post ban 1 cleanser and deal with them only having 1 cleanser = lilith/nahor controls whole game.

[split nymph]

hopefully fuqiu plume and artisan too

[thin imp]

So ur left with he dilemma of overpicking cleansers or forced to post ban cc.

And with raymerry/fuq available you dont want to have to be forced to ban anything but them tbh

[pliant heart]

I dont know how you guys do it but complaining when the game has given you lighthouse, reaper, strive, gigabyte, alicorn which cleanses 3 debuffs, doki, lingluo, aya, bulwark increasing the chance to 10%, bruisers doing damage as well as utility and tanking, bloodbath and slyph is something else.

And add to that the three strongest bruisers are all rgb which makes it easier to dupe.

[thin imp]

I mean ur acting like the top players dont all play cc on 4 5 to manipulate draft. If its so weak then why is it always picked and respected in draft.

People that play cc too are also laughing at how strong cc is. Slyph doesnt truly stop cc that doesnt blow their full load in first turn. Ling rng cleanser. Bulwark worthless past 1st turn. Doki only viable if you can outspeed. You have to combo the cleansers to accommodate for each other's weaknesses but every cleanser but aya hinges on having to take a turn. And even aya needs to be up on tm to cleanse

[wise compass]

hell nawh. they SHOULD nerf messiah

[thin imp]

Diting is also a cc unit now his s2 pushes a unit back so far, his s3 helps you vs the counters and denies reaper strive like idk this shit is toxic.

[fallen roost]

back in s0 when the only prevalent stripper was hein and the rare mia player.

[hearty acorn]

if cc is so strong, why are there more bruisers in top 300?

[pliant heart]

https://tenor.com/view/ladies-and-gentleman-we-got-him-gif-12313683

[fallen roost]

The bruisers play cc too TBF

[thin imp]

Cuz u dont always see cc in draft if its post banned

Lilith counts as cc too guys lmfao

[fallen roost]

Celince is cc as well

[pliant heart]

These guys get so much options and the most of the ladder is bruiser + bruiser cc units and they still delulu, wanting more options.

[thin imp]

Go look at the lilith mio merchants. Dont just count those as not cc wtf.

[hearty acorn]

bruiser + a cc unit doesn't make it not a bruiser comp lol

[fallen roost]

hey! That's me

[thin imp]

But is it not a cc draft?

U have to pick 2+ units to deal with 1 unit that can still solo control ur dps.

[pliant heart]

Yeah i think these guys think bruisers only account for the trinity + healers

[hearty acorn]

bruisers are fighting mostly bruisers so need to draft in some different units to deal with it, all the actual cc and cleave comps no longer being represented

[thin imp]

Its still bruiser + cc but cc is chosen bc its strong obviously lmfao. Cleave outside of messiah is not relevant without cc.

[pliant heart]

Mio and celince on bloodbath mean they not bruiser gang according to the t2 players.
Any unit you use bb on, automatically makes them bruiser.

[fallen roost]

The devs are shilling hard for the bb play style so even cc is getting folded into it.

Pure cleave is the only playstyle getting completely shafted rn.

RIP codex as well.

[thin imp]

First of all that is so 1 dimensional lmfao to say bb = bruiser. But also some people run cc without bb too if the draft permits it. Ill slam a nahor anyway and he dont got bb if they look weak to cc

[pliant heart]

So what is ur logic in putting units like massiah or yeli on bb. You have put yeli on bb in the past.

[split nymph]

according to this, nautilus is a bruiser just like irelia

[thin imp]

[hearty acorn]

y'all are thick, driving away non bruiser players so you can be king of an ant hill

[pliant heart]

Who tf is that, can you speak in etheria unit terms

[thin imp]

They are still cleave units bc they still die fast. Even on bb theh will die fast so they arent functional bruisers.

[pliant heart]

So why do u put them on bb? Isnt it cause bb is just better than all the other sets

[thin imp]

Idk if you've played rta recently but most bruiser players play cc now

[hearty acorn]

you may think that from your own experience but top 300 says different

[thin imp]

I mean it is doesnt mean they are bruisers tho.

[fallen roost]

Give a non-bb Mio 1 hp% and she can unironically tank a couple bruiser hits outside of a monster like tia .

[thin imp]

Yea cc units are different on bb than cleave units on bb. U still need full rightside damage on cleave units but for cc u can add in 1 or 2 hp even

[fallen roost]

Yup. I eventually swapped Liliam off bb since she gets clapped so fast the bb doesn't trigger.

[pliant heart]

Yeah cause you are putting a non dps set on a dps. Dont you agree logically people who put units like yeli or massiah on bb ret arded since it increases eff res which dps dont need.

[dapper reef]

Why would it make sense for them to balance releases between a more interactive group of playstyles and one that tries to end games in under a minute when it's obvious their entire MO is not letting that be a frequent occurrence

[thin imp]

I still think bb/swiftush is best for yeli bc the damage sets dont work too well on her. I dont see bb messiah as anything except for maybe his damage numbers overturned for him to still work on bb.

[fallen roost]

I hope Kenny doesn't think I'm against him. XD has a clear bias so for now I'm just adapting until t1 is great again

[pliant heart]

But isnt it ret arded to put a set like bloodbath which increases eff res on yeli who is a cleave unit?

[thin imp]

Im in favor of some cleave buffs and not necessarily cc nerfs but some more/better cleansers and a fuq/ray/plume/messiah/amber nerf

[fallen roost]

+1

[pliant heart]

Nah its all g bro this is just discord rta. I forget about it as soon as the match ends 🤝

[dapper reef]

If they don't start nerfing with this season I don't think the game can be saved

[hearty acorn]

because many players prefer the fast playstyle, and having different competing playstyles makes for a more interesting game. If they don't want people to play cleave they shouldn't release units which enable that style and just have it be a game of bruisers. You won't have as many players though.

[wanton sandal]

looking for a mummy, if your a mummy dm me

[dapper reef]

There are a bunch of different completing playstyles already that don't include one that erases you in a single rotation. We saw what happens when that's the most viable option in S0 and for people who weren't whales or uhhh special in the head, and it cost them a shitload of money in lost players already. People think they like it. Some are right. Most of you are wrong

[pliant heart]

I think game is already cooked. Just enjoy the time that is left for global

[hearty acorn]

most of us are wrong about what we like?

[dapper reef]

Yeah. This happens with users all the time. Absolutely no clue what they actually want. It's why "constructive criticism" is largely useless and the design field exists. Otherwise you could just ask people what they think would be best, implement that, and succeed

[hearty acorn]

lol

[wanton sandal]

tf bro

[hearty acorn]

no sense in arguing with an idiot who think they know a stranger on the internet better than they know themselves

[wanton sandal]

cc is the strongest

[dapper reef]

I didn't say you were necessarily one of those people who doesn't understand their own preferences. I just said that most of the people who aren't thousands of dollars deep and say they want a cleave meta (or even a 50/50 cleave/non-cleave matchup rate) have no idea what they're asking for

[dry hull]

why is everyone so obsessed with cleave?

[dapper reef]

It feels good to one-shot people and they think they're Him

[vital girder]

Lets be honest the only reason everyone is picking cc is because BB and defensive shells exist cc cleavers dont usually pick tanks because they arent using BB so they are a waste of slots. The reason for the bad feeling in the game is almost every char in the game becomes a bruiser with just items and shells. Amber is dumb and bb makes chars with 0 def and hp survive full dps cleavers. You cant ban or pick around tank you just have to deal with it. Have a problem with cc ban the strips have a problem with cleave ban massiah and all of a sudden its ez wins.

tanks have wayyy too much variety in selection and can react to any pick or ban they are better in union vs union and the tourny mode every weekend feels horrible for anything that isnt tanks.

[dapper reef]

"bb makes chars with 0 def and HP survive full DPS cleavers"

You don't do your argument any favors by hallucinating publicly brother

[dry hull]

is cleave really this fun? do i need to swap lol.

[vital girder]

I dont have a problem with bruisers being tanky the problem is EVERYONE is tanky with BB. If it was just the bruisers it would be fine they would get punished for stealing picks but now that amber lily on bb cant be 1 shot cleaved but let me tell you that tiamat holden and raymerry can 1 shot the cc cleave lily.

[dry hull]

nerf amber not bb

[dapper reef]

No, but most of them don't understand that

[vital girder]

BB effectively breaks the game if you need BB for pvp to be fun then add it as a basic passive to all players in pvp.

[dry hull]

its not fun for tournaments either. reason why hearthstone was fun to watch back in the day was cause they lasted decent amount of time and had rng.

[vital girder]

Every char that ever comes out will be useable on BB its not fun.

[split nymph]

The reason why bb is on every unit that is isnt forcing t1 is coz everyone is oneshot without it

[vital girder]

Then make it a base line instead of a set that punishes T1 for not using it. This is a bad reasoning cant survive t1 so t1 should suffer so i can outlast damage.

let bruisers actually protect the team like diting instead of 1 shotting the entire team like tia holden ray and rahu.

[dapper reef]

Of course a playstyle that doesn't rely on one single stat being higher than someone else's one single stat is better in fixed modes like GvG, why would it ever be otherwise

CC is overwhelmingly strong in Fearless compared to anything else

[split nymph]

I just stated a fact abt the balancing i didnt say anything abt smth beeing good or bad

[hearty acorn]

they don't even need to nerf the dmg mitigation, just add something negative, mitigate dmg done as well as recieved, reduce healing recieved etc

[dry hull]

if i took bb off my guys then they all die turn 1 lol even with diting ult

[split nymph]

Im in line with u, i think it would be benefitial to nerf the entire dmg of the game and nerf bb so that non bb units arent paper

[vital girder]

Thats fair but everyone says that like its a gacha so i apologize if i sounded agressive. Its just a bad feeling if you didnt get bruiser units invest in tohers and now the entire game feels miserable. sorry again

[dry hull]

id be cool with that

[thin imp]

They designed the game assuming everyone runs bb so yea we have been saying damage is too high.

[vital girder]

For the record i was also with the rev nerfs i think it was dumb having supports hit for your entire hp bar. I dont like these shells that replace entire classes of units.

[hearty acorn]

same

[thin imp]

Like im in favor of overall damage nerf with damage SCALING buffed not base damage.

[hearty acorn]

kaz and freya dps was dumb, and I've always been a cleaver, but I want the game to last, not to win this week

[dapper reef]

They also designed it around max dupes and lattices which leaves stuff feeling pretty weird and bad especially with shit like Aya and Celince s2

[vital girder]

thats also a bad feeling dupes effect tanks more because survivability and damage for the equiv to happen non tanks would need spd in dupes

[hearty acorn]

bruisers are way more rgb centered than cleave so they get easier dupes as well

[split nymph]

Also i think shields should be nerfed

[vital girder]

that too i gotta spend 15k for 1 mass dupe

[hearty acorn]

or hein or yeli or mio

[dry hull]

well no cause attack is useless. yall get 10% attack and defense just like we do but we cant use the attack.

[dapper reef]

25k artisan shields are fine, Nevette will just apply block and they won't get their shields

[vital girder]

the tank stats dont matter for dps tho lol you die in like 1 turn anyway

[thin imp]

Tbf, you get benefits as ld in no crit disadvantage and t1 supports wouldn't care too much abt dupes. So in a way its cheaper

[vital girder]

Not gonna lie im a day 1 player but if this next season doesnt address the problems im out.

[hearty acorn]

same

[thin imp]

I mean the rgb cleavers are dysfunctional until they nerf stuff but then how does one deal with messiah with nerfed counters. Oh wait now we gotta nerf messiah.

The stuff u need to counter messiah makes the other cleavers obsolete.

[vital girder]

wait

you mean bruisers would have to gasp build another style of team to counter massiah that counters tanks 😮 that just being tanky wouldnt be enough to win all the time they would need speed contesters and actually interact with the game lol cant have that just ungabunga t2 against everything

[thin imp]

No what im saying is what counters messiah makes other cleavers obsolete. How can rilmocha and rosa compete of they have to deal with messiah counters.

[vital girder]

just like i have to build a holden and healers in BB tanks should have to also have a speed tuned chars to deal with certain picks that ruin their comps

1 character ignoring defense shouldnt be a problem when you can ban it

[dry hull]

what did you all spend yall lattices on?

[vital girder]

i didnt get any tias or rahus till recently so i had to go cleave + cc with holden

[thin imp]

For balance right, you want to have stuff to deal with something. When something is so far over the line, to counter it u need stronger counters. So how can some other weaker cleavers compete. If you buff the other cleavers is it enough to counter an anti messiah draft?

[vital girder]

like my only bruiser for the first months till wishbender was holden

[dry hull]

did you have the sr bruiser?

[split nymph]

U got a strong liliam?

[vital girder]

p0 just 5-5-5 she does decently enough

[dapper reef]

Am I high? What am I reading

[split nymph]

Liliam is the light for cc cleave

[pallid canopy]

hp based bruisers still tank messiah ie tiamat

[vital girder]

yea i know i use her im mythic its just not fun to play right now this isnt my name in game

[split nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/eren-eren-yeager-freedom-sky-anime-gif-27648718

[dry wadi]

Thx bro !!!

[thin imp]

All im saying is messiah is way above the line compared to other cleavers so other cleavers cannot function bc they have to deal with trying to counter the bullshit that he is. Without *gasp his bullshit

[vital girder]

cleavers cant function cuz tanks are too strng not cuz massiah is too strong lol the other cleavers do great against anything not in BB

[thin imp]

So if tanks are weaker then clrave becomes predominant? Idk think about it from balance. Should messiah not be nerfed so they can nerf some more cleave counters and then buff other cleave units?

[dry hull]

why cant cleave just be a gimmick style

[vital girder]

Its not that tanks need to be weaker its everyone is a tank because items and shells make them tanks. So any char thats meant to be for another playstyle becomes soo good for t2. The bruisers could get a buff for all i care but all these turn pushers and healers shouldnt be as tanky as the bruisers.

[thin imp]

The only standing argument u would have to not nerf messiah to fix balancing is bc u invested in him.

[dry hull]

im just a noob but imo if you are trying to buff and speed up your cleave to one shot the first turn then that is a style that should be just a gimmick and require lots of investments to work.

[thin imp]

Why not nerf messiah, inteoduce some hp cleavers buff the rest of cleave roster?

[pallid canopy]

but thats a problem with the dmg in the game, nobody wants to get wiped by an unbuffed blue rin taking first turn

[vital girder]

Yea and alot of people dont wanna smack each other with wet noodles for 10 min for a single pvp match.

[pallid canopy]

yea

[thin imp]

Im not saying make cleave weak. Im saying make cleave stronger outside of messiah but tone him down.

[dry hull]

you guys are trying to do matches like they are ai battles lol

how is that fun? you could just auto play and it would pilot your cleave team on its own

[dapper reef]

The only matches like this tend to be pure cc shit-ass losers vs sustain teams where cc shit-ass losers don't get Plume

[vital girder]

i dont think the other chars even need adjustments honestly all the other cleavers do a ton of damage. Its litterally just BB that makes them useless because it also stacks on defense and other mitigating stuff like amber.

[green meadow]

oh shit whatd i miss, homies goin ham today

[vital girder]

Yup thats me now since playing cleave is just ban massiah and your useless

[thin imp]

But I mean u would see what happens when u put a full damage dps units against stuff like wellspring unbreakable

[thin imp]

So would u not want messiah toned down and for u to be able to play other cleavers? Or would u want other cleavers buffs with no messiah nerfs and tip balance in ur favor?

[dapper reef]

So you're the one forcing 10 min matches, people who don't play that specific speed cc style aren't having those kinds of matches against each other

[vital girder]

I think that would be fine honestly. Because you couldnt put a full eff res and effect accuracy char and still survive a cleave

[dapper reef]

You can't do that already, unless the cleaver is terrible

[thin imp]

All of this is theoretical bc they wont buff cleave or nerf messiah but id want to see rilmocha utilized more etc.

[hearty acorn]

I'm a cleave player invested in massiah and I wouldn't even care if they nerfed him if it meant the fixed balance so the meta shifted regularly

[thin imp]

I think hes holding back cleave balance imo.

[vital girder]

I want you to actually have to build defensive stats to survive. I dont like becoming a free tank because you chose a shell and gear set. I dont care if massiah is nerfed it wouldnt change his function.

[dapper reef]

You do have to build defensive stats to survive unless the cleaver is terrible

[thin imp]

Liliam oneshots my bb yeli so idk what ur saying there lol.

[vital girder]

Thats bs you need a double pump team to beat a bruiser team or a cc team

[dapper reef]

Yeah to finish off the units that were built with defensive stats

[vital girder]

massiah needs to do 2 ults and not get turn cut to kill bruisers

[thin imp]

Strong enough messiah oneshots defense scaling bruisers in one hit

[vital girder]

if you have defense break and attack +

massiah is not 1 shotting a bruiser team in 1 turn stop

[dry hull]

noob question. can you run lilliam on bb?

[dapper reef]

You are not talking about units that are built with eff res or eff acc, which will die on the first pump. Also, of course you need fucking setup to wipe teams, how free do you think your style should be buddy are you serious

[thin imp]

If u want her to die in 1 or 2 tuens instead of 1 hit. Shes dying on bb regardless

[vital girder]

They dont even the fulle ff acc and res ones dont die i play massiah lol it does not happen

[dapper reef]

Post your Massiah

[jade dagger]

Ur mas 115?

[vital girder]

4-5-5

[fallen roost]

You can but she's built like cookies. The only time she'd survive on bb is if your opponent drafted no damage 😭

[jade dagger]

Mas by himself w.o atk up does 70% of hp...

[dry hull]

yea i figured. im just wondering causse ima build her up so i can take her away from cc teams

[thin imp]

She works situationally vs cc, aka no plume no hein

[fallen roost]

no bb Liliam gets folded by Jackal & Tiger

[thin imp]

Also tiamat isnt a threat to double pump bc messiah passive ignores the tiamat passive but other cleavers gotta deal with it so amber becomes psuedo messiah counter.

[vital girder]

thats great until she has amber and tia isnt alone usually has another bruiser healers etc

[thin imp]

But u kill her teammates and she aint soloing shit. But again like I've said this uninterwctovity by messiah makes amber the counter and other cleavers completely obsolete bc of amber. So is the logical conclusion not nerf both messiah and amber?

[jade dagger]

If no amber prty sure mas wipes nruiser atk up def down

[vital girder]

thats great kill all her defnensive built teamates that take more than ult to kill hopefully they dont turn cut and heal before your 2nd ult

[hearty acorn]

massiah's in 25 of the top 200 comps in rta, bored to look through all 300

[thin imp]

Hes in preban alongside mio fuq and raymerry

[vital girder]

yea hes the only cleaver lol and good even if hes not in a cleave team i started seeing bb amber massiahs just take him from cleave players

[hearty acorn]

so you think there'd be similar numbers of raymerry?

[dapper reef]

How are you failing to kill units you're certain are full effres or eff acc with this, or are you just speculating about the stats on people you lose to

[jade dagger]

And not every1 heavily invested in mas tsuki beyo -.- i daresay not many atm

[thin imp]

Shes forced to be let thru once theres cc plus more ppl ahve it so less prebans when its fp

[vital girder]

because it doesnt do enough damage to kill them thats how i dont know who lied to you alot of these people have multiple dupe bruisers and healers and supports and they dont die in 1 turn

[jade dagger]

Can u share replay

[dapper reef]

Ok but where is your evidence they're built "with no defensive stats" which is the most important part of your claim

[vital girder]

you dont want to pick plume cuz aya just cuts or anyone with reaper cuts you dont wanna pick nahor without a strip cuz of bulwark

[jade dagger]

Ive fought a few mas they wipe my team lol

[vital girder]

Listen if you dont believe me i dont care lol teres enough people complaining about this and ill jsut end up quitting like everyone else then u guys can enjoy not having a game

[dapper reef]

So you don't have a single shred of useful documentation to prove you're failing to kill "full eff res or eff acc units with no defensive stats"

[vital girder]

cool story man lol

[thin imp]

Im purely against messiah's passive ignore not damage

[vital girder]

his passive ignore is the main reason hes used honestly without it even witht he defense ignore i dont think hed be very good

[thin imp]

Invincibility makes him irrelevant to counterattack tha tother cleavers have to deal with + they need dbreak

[vital girder]

Its not just him though its the entire team if he does damage and tia instant transforms you lose

[thin imp]

Tia doesnt transform vs mess.

[jade dagger]

Tia doesbt transform from mas...

[vital girder]

because passive ignore if you remove passive ignore she would im responding to your passive ignore complaint

[thin imp]

But then now you can nerf stuff thst deals with messiah and let other cleavers be functional. Logical?

[vital girder]

You would have to nerf a platora of when attacked stuff because theres soo mcuh its not just tia

[thin imp]

At the same time u can have counters bc interactivity. I mean yeah functionally this game is flawed.

[vital girder]

yea but there is no counters atm so removing it would jsut remove the playstyle

[dapper reef]

Like full eff acc units?

[jade dagger]

Ah version mismatch i cant share replay of claytano mas wiping my team if not for the 1hp bug lmfao

[vital girder]

like your mom when she blows the neighbor

[thin imp]

They release yet another defense pen unit albeit weak instead of an hp destroyer

[vital girder]

I mean they kinda tried with kokardi didnt they but he kinda became a bruiser char cuz they didnt want him to kill people too fast

[dapper reef]

All you have to do is admit you have no proof you're failing to kill "no defensive stat" units and I'll drop this but until then everything you say is a joke

[thin imp]

Obviously with something like a messiah nerf alot needs to be changed. No one asking for flat mess nerf.

[vital girder]

i do have proof im just not jumping through your hoops i dont care enough I know what happens on my account if you dont believe it kick rocks my guy

[dapper reef]

Your account lets you see other people's stats?

[vital girder]

I just dont think the devs would rather rebalance the entire game just to remove mass passive ignore just imo

[thin imp]

I just dont see how u u want other clrave units to work while at the same time having counterplay against cleave without nerfing messiah bullshit no? I mean devs wont do it but yea.

I mean from balance if something is over the line are u gna being everything over the line? Like next ld unit gna be more op than raymerry if they dont ship nerfs

[vital girder]

My only thing is i dont think mass is that scary unless your trying to out tank him im not even worried about him when im vs him

[thin imp]

But should u be forced to outspeed a speed playstyle as rhe main counterplay

[vital girder]

Thats why you add characters that counter turn push like you should have a freya on a bruiser account it just counters the t1

[thin imp]

Yeah im not worried about a messiah with no turn meter pushers lol. I have freya and I just freya -> blue rin the messiah but then theres sometimes beyo revive. Different story there.

[rustic walrus]

'mass isnt scary unless you try to out tank him' is certainly a line of all time

[vital girder]

Yea you mean the char whos specific function is countering tanks is good vs tanks 😮

[dapper reef]

But you can tank him with full eff res

[rustic walrus]

and eff acc

[vital girder]

this just in Liliam kinda cant be ccd lol but cc deals with her

[rustic walrus]

and honestly forget mass, but can we talk about nerfing nahor and raymerry first

[thin imp]

She dies to cc drafts bc theres too much baze damage

[vital girder]

that dont make her not scary to fight as cc

She works in bruiser comps all of a sudden we now ave issues to kill her and cant cc her

back to my main complaint its dumb that BB makes any char tanky and defense shells like amber completely outclass anything on the dps or support side

[thin imp]

@vital girder what's ur stance on how to touch clrave while offering balance and counterplay. How do u make cleave outside of messiah viable without being predominant so people complain we saw that with rev. We realistically know tho, it'll just be a new ld unit thats op af im just interested to see what you think should happen for cleave to be balanced. I do agree outside of messiah its shit.

[vital girder]

Honestly a blanket patch would remove bb and make it base line so everyone has in in pvp that way people are incentivized to use other sets and arent punished for not using it

[rustic walrus]

i see so many ignorant takes about the game and unit balancing here and somehow most of them are from the people always crying here about 'dominant playstyle issues' maybe thats why they cant climb

[vital girder]

already in mythic 3300 barely play cuz i dont like the meta theres nothing else to climb

[rustic walrus]

yes we know you couldnt climb more because your massiah cant kill eff res units

[vital girder]

Im mainly cc now i do fine the games just not fun to play cuz its catered to 1 playstyle

i barely pick massiah now his picks are too easily countered

[thin imp]

And that playstyle currently is cc. You cna pure cc, bruiser cc, cleave cc

[vital girder]

That doesnt change the point i said the games unfun cuz its 100% catered to 1 playstyle and every patch just makes that playstyle more annoying to play against

CC is only everywere cuz it also works for bruisers if it didnt they wouldnt pick it

[rustic walrus]

no but the 'playstyle' you are always going on about it being catered to is wrong

[dapper reef]

I don't think you would like innate bb 70k hp Tiamat and Borgne

[vital girder]

I never said bruiser is wrong i said its dumb that every char can be a bruiser because of shells and items

[thin imp]

Bb doesnt even proc vs cc

[vital girder]

It doesnt proc vs cc but it forces you into that playstyle more than you would want to

[rustic walrus]

bro no support unit survives shit on bb thats what we are telling you

[thin imp]

Wellspring barely even gives hp unfortunately

[vital girder]

lol guess im just imagining supports surviving my mass ult

[rustic walrus]

with eff acc and res right side*

[dapper reef]

Yeah but you can get both of them up pretty damn high anyway

[thin imp]

I mean agreed, and raymerry forces u to cc as well. Plus if the opponent is ccing u have to cc as well or risk just never playing the game bc cleansers are rng. Thats not to say raymerry can bramble stun a lilith so Lilith cant s2

[vital girder]

yes even withe ff res and acc on the right side

[dapper reef]

Yes unless you actually have DMs with someone sharing a build where they've full stacked non defensive stats then you're hallucinating it. Why is that hard to imagine for you

[vital girder]

Yup w/e you say lol thats why theres tons of people that have the same experience as me lol your litterally just telling me my experience in playing the game didnt happen lol

[thin imp]

I mean i think the supporte can live but if dps is dead it's pretty much game over

[rustic walrus]

@dapper reef you will not believe which playstyles i faced in my last 5 rta matches against seperate players
3 cc, 1 cc cleave and 1 rev cleave

[vital girder]

Thats great lol all the non t2 content creators arent saying the same thing im saying or anything the top 25 player that made this thread didnt say simillar things either

[pallid canopy]

nahor buff was a mistake

[dapper reef]

Who cares about them. Who even are they. Materia is a low quality baiter, are there others?

[thin imp]

Rn what messiah is is two checks: do you have borgne or Lilith built with bulwarks, can you cut beyo? Cuz no bulwark = nahor on 5

[rustic walrus]

meanwhile bread prebanning nahor every time he played last 3 streams and rob and ronny prebanning mio every game...ever

[thin imp]

Ronny is the mio merchant he doesnt preban it

[vital girder]

Wow you mean that bruisers can play every unit??????????? thats totally not my complaint from the begining that they have too much variety and everyone works on bruiser comps so the counter play si almost non existent.

[rustic walrus]

yeah he started using his 111 nahor too now i think

[thin imp]

Hes the reason I started to use 000 nahor

[vital girder]

totally hasnt been my point from the first post that the biggest issue is every unit can work for bruisers because bb makes everyone into a bruiser

[thin imp]

My nahor isnt bb

[vital girder]

and amber makes the issue 10x worse

[dapper reef]

"people who don't try to one-shot exclusively as a playstyle have too many useful interactive options to play with" just makes it sound like a well designed game man

It's not, for other reasons, but c'mon

[vital girder]

You seem to have a brain malfunction if you cant understand my point lol bruisers get 100000 counters to CC and already beat cleavers

[thin imp]

I mean there should just be damage nerfs bc im pretty sure damage is tuned for pve. Diting can oneshot tiamat with wellspring im pretty sure

In gvg diting is used to oneshot rahu

Amber is the counterplay we are forced to use. Not the one we want in the same way ur forced to cc.

[pallid canopy]

i remember when lighthouse was counter to cleave

[vital girder]

i mean thats fine too damage being lower is fine

[split nymph]

i havent kept up with the latest talks here, but in e perfect world i love to see a economy in which everyone can play every playstyle, it makes drafts way more flexable

[thin imp]

It can work if there's no cc

[vital girder]

I agree

[dapper reef]

Until they nerf damage and accuracy or proc rates that won't happen sadly

[thin imp]

I mean if I was able to consistently outspeed messiah then sure let me never be able to tank him but what is slow player supposed to do. I dont even amber outside of tia ray lily out of principle

[hearty acorn]

balance would be less of an issue if there were resets and more lattices for sure, but there isn't, and if everyone pivots to t2, the meta becomes stale, as it has

[thin imp]

Ik I could go and slap amber on stuff to beat messiah but like bruh thats so lame my counterplay has to be outspeed/ amber let me use a character's kit to counterplay

[vital girder]

this right here is the problem lol you have even more options

[thin imp]

Yeah but we HAVE to use amber same way ur forced to cc

[vital girder]

you can use light house light house works very well

[thin imp]

Lighthouse when theres cc on 5 and u have to be faster than the beyo

[vital girder]

pick freya

freya at 330 with bulwark will outspeed a 350 + turn push every time and if you have a celince its even more busted

cleavers dont wanan pick freya into tanks ccs like it vs tanks though

[thin imp]

Also yeah sure sometimes I could lighthouse assume cleaver wont cc on 5. Thats not real drafting. Also if I lock freya, then they pivot and now im playing cc

Which i mean I've done, its just quite lame

[vital girder]

thats what drafting is supopse dot be you put reaper steps to counter cc and lighthouse to coutner dps you cant have all optiosn lol thats why bruiser feels bad they dont hurt themselves as much they can cover all options

[pallid canopy]

also another problem to play different styles, if u lack some core units you can't pivot, i do have rahu, holden and tia, but i would like to play t1
but then i don't have mio, nahor, freya

[vital girder]

get ccd pickt he counter ccs get cleaved pick the tanks and out live ezpz theres no hurting pros and cons

[thin imp]

I assume my opponents can all standard pivot and play cc too and try to draft accordingly. But ofc if someone lacks units then yeah its 1 dimensional

[vital girder]

if they are playing cc freya should beat cc to she also outspeeds cc

[nova cargo]

I wish ligthouse were useable

[thin imp]

Also some people 1 2 freya if they know ur slow af but generally I agree freya is better for t2

[vital girder]

Then let them waste a pick on freya and beat them for it by leaving her open and going the anti cleave / cc chars because they exposed their picks by picking her early

you know freya on cc is stronger than freya on cleave vs bruiser so pick for it

[thin imp]

If u go full anti cc it gets cleaved tbh

[vital girder]

you dont have to go full anti cc just pick your bruiser chars and wait for them to pick the rest then go anti what ever they pick bruiser picks dont change vs cc or cleave in terms of tia rahu holden and ray

[dapper reef]

??

[thin imp]

U need 2-3, cleansers vs cc

[vital girder]

yea then save your last 2 or 3 picks for the counter picks

[dapper reef]

Who the fuck is bringing Holden Rahu

[vital girder]

Yes welcome to how everyone else feels you dont have 100% options to secure the win every pick and ban phase lol you have to build and prepare for certain comps

i also have to make decisions on my first few picks if i pick plume to early aya comes out etc yea thats the game

[thin imp]

I mean from a theory standpoint like if everyone had every unit its gear checks and if ur slow cc is on top bc u have to overcommit to beat cc consistently

[vital girder]

No bruiser is still on top CC is just being put into bruiser comps because it fits well and takes picks and cleave has to go cc because picking tanks picks dont compliment cleave

the only cc here is lilith and diting if you count him

[thin imp]

Diting and holden have forms of cc, plus theres a pick often post banned that u dont see

[vital girder]

Holden is a bruiser and you know it just having a cc ability is like calling rahu a cleave char cuz he has an aoe ult stop the cap

hes a flexable bruiser like ray

[thin imp]

I mean rahu can cleave

[vital girder]

LOL i know but thats a stretch to classify him as a cleaver even if i like his kpop looking self

[thin imp]

U pick holden for his s2 and s3 which are utility cc/strip

[vital girder]

Thats cool and all but people arent building holden because hes cc they are building him because hes a good bruiser that has soft cc and a strip

[thin imp]

Hes used in cc drafts and enables pivots tbh

[vital girder]

Yes hes used in drafts for cc because hes a bruiser and does well against high damage and can strip when theres only 2 other aoe strippers in the game

hes a flex bruiser that can be picked in other comps just like mio is a flexable cc that can also turn push and replace a lily or tsuki but no one calls mio the turn push unit

[thin imp]

Fair enough but ur also looking at recent drafts, idk if it even shows losses, and no 5th picks or prebans

[thin imp]

Uh she is a turn push unit as well as cc unit and 1/2 aoe wound

[dapper reef]

But she is the turn push unit. Or rather the premier full team cycling unit

[vital girder]

I know but shes mainly a cc unit that is flexable into the other units you dont classify her the same as lily just like you wouldnt call holden a cc like nahor is

a bruiser with some cc is still a bruiser just like a cc with some turn push is still a cc

[thin imp]

Why do classifications have to be mutually exclusive?

[vital girder]

because classifications decide what dupe bonuses they have were speed is located in their skill ups and if they have crit or accuracy in their skill ups

it also effects base stat allocation

[thin imp]

Hein classified as a dps by XD. I dont think u have to go with what they classify lmao.

[vital girder]

i think hein is a debuffer not dps he has spd on his s3 and accuracy on s2 if im not mistaken

[thin imp]

Yeah plume has higher base attack than rosa...

[vital girder]

No he has crit on his s2 i guess he is a dpser thats weird yea mass has speed on s3 too thats weird

[thin imp]

Dps has speed s3. But works out for hein bc it makes him a cheap af debuffer 114 sufficient.

[vital girder]

yea rosa has lower attack cuz multi hit i think that was intentional to just her

Im not complaining i only have points in heins s3 lol cant afford to put it anywere else yet i like tha his speed is in his s3 thats just weird didnt notice they probably classified him as a damage dealer

[thin imp]

I mean alot of units have useless ass s1s that need to be latticed just for speed

[dapper reef]

Who? I find S1s in this game (and therefore bramble) more powerful than in almost any other I've played

I feel like it's mostly the DPS wasting lattices needing s1 for stats or for Liliam's passive

[nova cargo]

Why nobody speak of useless nevette p4

[dry hull]

yea bro rahu s1 be slappin 🙂 and holden of course

[iron shale]

i do agree, but nevette is playable in CC, she's kind of a let down compared to what i thought she would do, but she can dish some OK damage if you play her slower than your other CC. But she's hard to build, hard to fit in a team, hard to invest in ( doesn't do much if you don't have at least P3 ).

and you ideally want her P5, so she's clearly not a friendly character

[dapper reef]

She has a max cc chance on any given unit of like 78.5% on her s3, which is kinda crazy in the context of this game's power levels although it's probably what the limit of powerful cc should actually be

[iron shale]

haha yeah i agree she's a bit low, but on the other hand i don't think that's her problem to be honest

I feel like putting her at such a low base attack when it's the only stat she can scale from is a bit of a miss

[thin imp]

S1s for the debuffers and cc units

[dapper reef]

Plume, Lilith, Celince, Nahor, Mio, all pretty good no?

[iron shale]

say that to tiamat, everytime i have to AOE with a non bloodbath character it's like a gamble

[thin imp]

Missed the point that hein got his speed in his most important ability but there are a fair bit of units with lack luster s1s still need to level s1 for speed which they otherwise don't care about using. It adds to the lattice issue. And primarily its t1 that has these units

[iron shale]

that's a given, the only reason i'am saying that is because some character benefit a lot from their S1 while not being a debuffer or a CC unit

[thin imp]

Yeah s1 being strong on some units is why bramble is a menace. Like raymerry s1 stun or tiamat nuclear bomb

[dapper reef]

I guess there's Freya? Nevette? I just don't think speed support S1s are bad in general

Beyo maybe?

[iron shale]

yeah S1 on nevette is good, ngl

[thin imp]

Mio s1 pretty worthless, Lilith s1 is cosmetic, nahor s1 useless, beyo s1, tsuki s1, etc

[dapper reef]

Mio, Lilith, and Nahor all have decent ones though. Tsuki also really good although not exactly relevant for one-shotters

[iron shale]

the game would be in such a better state if S1 skills didn't have any lattice requirement. That's just my opinion tho

and it's not like we'd be able to build every character anyway

[thin imp]

I mean they are worthless in the grand scheme of things and u level primarily for the speed nodes. You much rather lattice something else if u were given the 15 speed already. Or would u still lattice their s1 if u got 15 spd, cuz ik I wont.

[dapper reef]

Maybe not Nahor but I would max Mio and Lilith S1s all day anyway

[thin imp]

I like my lilith at 155 and dont think I gain much for s1 max compared to spending it on another unit. Are her extra turns thst meaningful and its rng

[dapper reef]

Doubled extra turn chance is 🅱️razy

[thin imp]

It can proc at lvl 1. Ive had my Lilith proc like 3x in a row on 8%. In the same way I miss bombs on tiamat

Lilith gives and takes points away. 10% special

[dapper reef]

Tiamat loves to resist Lilith

[thin imp]

I even run her double eff acc bc I got frustrated after missing tiamat like 5 games in a row but she still missing.

[sterile crow]

hey can i apply to ur guild?

[fringe turret]

Yea this, id rather pick a cc unit in her slot

[rose hill]

Yeah with bulwark. If no stripper she will kill rev/cc teams like Freya and Mio

[pallid canopy]

liliam was the counter to cc, i don't think u can draft hoyan just to kill 1 unit and then cc'd for the rest of the match

[dapper reef]

Nothing can stop you from applying to any guild that allows applications Cloyster

[rose hill]

I mean you have to be smart about it but she can break the CC chain. Like Hoyan won’t end CC but can break the chain.

Also BB right now screws her up so she is only good vs t1

[fringe turret]

Im only picking liliam in a cc comp so that she doesnt get counter picked.

[pallid canopy]

if she gets perma immunity while on passive state i would say shes good agaist cc, but after bulwark ends she doesn't do anything another unit on bulwark would do

[rose hill]

Maybe anecdotal but Hoyan has been clutch for me as 5th pick when opponent is playing t1 with no plume or mass 🤷

[pallid canopy]

how many games and are u facing codex cc

[rose hill]

Also of course CC will be strong in this meta. They are meant to counter bruisers! But even though CC are meant to counter bruisers, they still have a decent shot vs them with their all the tools available to them. Just shows how strong bruisers are right now.

[iron shale]

it's anything but bad, but the fact of the matter is that 80% of the ladder plays bruiser, so what does that tells us

[rose hill]

I mostly face t2 but Hoyan has been typically clutch vs non-plume and mass.

[pallid canopy]

i was talking about how many games you drafted hoyan into cc

[rose hill]

I don’t really keep count. But not always and not non-existent. Again if the drafts allows it she can be clutch.
Either way my point is she is way better vs t1 and basically useless vs t2.

[pallid canopy]

yes i can agree, but i can't agree shes counter to cc if she needs bulwark instead of her kit working for that purpose
i would say they need to rework her kit to do extra dmg based on enemy hp vs hers

[rose hill]

Before plume/Nahor buff(during her release) she did counter CC with BW.

[sterile crow]

wait so I can just join his guild then?

[dapper reef]

If they accept your application

[dapper reef]

You don't get fucked by Hein, Mia, and Obol?

[pallid canopy]

before plume nahor people been running kaz and obol on codex

[rose hill]

I mean if I see both Hein and Mia? I don’t draft Hoyan. Also those are not CC
In regard to Obol - depends on the rest of the draft. No other strippers? Sure

[dapper reef]

Is cc without strip really cc

[fallen roost]

It is if they're all on bb

[rose hill]

Anyways my point has been that T2 has been the favorite and the discrepancy with T1 is huge.
Typical draft now:
Ray FU Aya Lilith Tia
FU and Lilith on BW
Ray and Tia Amber
Aya with reaper
All of course with BB

How do I deal with that as a T1 player? Mass or Mio prebanned. I basically just hope he messes up or vastly out gear them.

[thin imp]

Apply to Garden. Crim has revived Garden

[dark sandal]

Don't worry turn 2 Ezio auditore will arrive in 30 business days to kill him when healing stops

[thin imp]

Cc is meta, cleave is dead af

[sterile crow]

I thought garden died

[dapper reef]

Google "revived"

[jade dagger]

I think u know better than me but in typical draft u can ban ray and mas cleave

If plume not ban just go plume mio nahor hein and flex dps/cc

If ccing amd fast nahor just ban lilith

T1 has not got mch love but how many t1 player built ninfo/mia for example?

[thin imp]

what are u prebanning to play vs this draft?

[tribal rapids]

you're 3.8k and complaining about t2

[nova cargo]

Dont worry t2 dead soon

[dark sandal]

It is non existent in star saviour

[median veldt]

lol, if you play T1, why you do not preban Tiamat.

[nova cargo]

Hes also playing with 80 tofus in his inventory

[bleak lintel]

You just CC and win

[feral hare]

Why j talk about ss the only thing i saw is a more worse release as ER had

[dark sandal]

[rustic walrus]

yeah because cc needs less investment in general i assume?

[finite gulch]

Fuck this game cant clear hoyan 43 dont have bruiser comp for it

[heady bridge]

hoswa14 has been warned

Reason: Duplicated text

[random harness]

The meta is so bad now. If the balance patch continue to favour those bruisers playstyle and force all player to play bruiser I quit. Nothing work other than bruisers nowadays

[bleak lintel]

the ragebait is real

[pliant heart]

Nah he is speaking the truth. Compare the number of players this game had at end of s0 which was rev meta to now end of season. The devs focusing hard on bruiser being the dominant style has led to people quitting this game.
You all may call this ragebait but the data dont lie.

You can check the revenue drop between s0 and current season.

[bleak lintel]

Thats not a causality

[random harness]

Even top guild look for merge now. I changed 3 guild in a month. It is dying everywhere.
I already stopped spending and log in lesser and lesser. Event also no longer finish. Just wait for the patch to decide stay or quit

[bleak lintel]

Just quit

[ionic dust]

so let me get this straight. if the game moves to cleave/outspeed meta than people wont quit?

[hearty acorn]

if the meta changes at all people who are complaining about t2 meta won't quit, doesn't need to favor cleave, just needs to stop favoring bruisers so much. Obv not all people who have quit is because of game inbalance, but some of them for sure

[ionic dust]

you get outspeed and you loose right on the spot.. that will be so much fun! RTA isnt the main reason people are leaving. PVE modes boring, events are copy paste, gw sucks, no story for the 10 people that want more story. people quit for different reasons. if you think that everyone plays for rta and quit cause of rta only..ok i suppose

[hearty acorn]

There are many reasons people have quit, some people have been outspoken about RTA being the main reason, the distribution of how many people have quit for that reason is something none of us can actually know

and while some people find fast cleave meta unfun, others find slow bruiser meta unfun. The answer is to have the meta change and not favor one style

[ionic dust]

the biggest reason is devs promised constant communication but that never came. and now people are tired of empty promises. adding 3 new heroes on a cycle isnt fun. they need to do more then that to keep people interested

[hearty acorn]

people have, and will, this attitude is unhelpful. When rev was op and freya and kaz could be used as dps, telling non cleave players to git gud or quit would be just as unhelpful. We want a balanced game so it can continue running with the most active players. You want an inbalanced game that favors you, and are telling players to quit. It's short sighted.

[pliant heart]

Its forcing down a specific style only that are making people quit. Why are the players dropping in numbers rapidly if the t2 is as loved as some of the people here claim?
Devs are forcing t2 and bruiser cc bloodbath as the only viable playstyle and the people who say otherwise are those favoured by the devs.

[hearty acorn]

this could be the biggest reason to you but again, none of us know the main reason so many people have quit because we have no metrics on that. We do have metrics on balance in the top 300.

[ionic dust]

thats your view point and i am not saying its wrong. but the game has more glaring issues as i mentioned which is causing people to leave

[pliant heart]

Its not my only viewpoint tho. See the drop in revenues and playerbase. Data dont lie.

[hearty acorn]

that the game has more glaring issues is your point of view, one not shared by many people who have written comments or posted

[ionic dust]

ok

no point in talking here. if you think people are leaving the game only cause of the bruiser rta meta. then you are right

[vital girder]

Doesnt matter people right now that are still playing the game are considering quitting because of the meta. Whats the biggest reason or what made others quit probably isnt as important as stopping the bleeding first.

[hearty acorn]

people are absolutely leaving the game for that reason, whether that is the main reason or not is not something any of us can say with certainty

[vital girder]

Im a day 1 light spender and if the meta doesnt feel better next season im out. Ive logged in every day.

[hearty acorn]

same, and I won't feel bad about it, I enjoy the game but if the devs show no ability / desire to balance pvp in a pvp game, it's silly to stick around. Let the bruisers fight each other in 10 minute matches while the game limps on

[vital girder]

Im only posting on the discord because i actually really like the game and would like to not quit if possible but im not gonna play a fustrating meta.

[hearty acorn]

yep, one of the many treading water while we wait for news

[vital girder]

I dont even want cleave to be op but like every character that comes out always has to solve a bruiser problem whether its bruiser v bruiser or bruiser v cc. They even announced 2 cc chars and 1 is a bruiser the other needs buffs.

2 cc chars should mean bruisers get to invest in chars that are benched and cc gets 2 new units to play with.

We all have chars waiting for us to have extra lattices.

[pliant heart]

Same, those that remain are people who invested time and effort into their account and still want to play their style of play cause the core mechanics is fun. If there isnt balance between playstyles then no reason to continue playing. Im also looking to see if necessary chances are made like amber nerf and other things but if its gonna continue the same then ill just quit the game. I dont want to be forced into playing a style just cause the devs want it to be the only playstyle thats viable.

https://tenor.com/view/reggie-not-fun-why-fun-if-its-not-fun-gif-18524715

[lone thistle]

why is everyone only defining everything into those 3 archtypes? i honestly dont even know what kind of player i am. i think most would define me as bruiser but i am playing "bruiser" without fuqiu / tia / rahu / holden. and bruiser players probably define me as cc.

why does every hero only need to fit one arch type?

[bleak lintel]

The difference is, there are those who belive CC/Cleave is useless and those who dont. Those who play rta a lot and are high rank know CC/Cleave is very strong and those who dont play a lot of rta and are low rank think bruiser is to op. Its just useless to talk about this topic so people should just quit if they dont have fun playin.

[vital girder]

Becuase characters require weaknesses to counter the weakness for picking cc and others with bruisers is that they should be squishier than the tias rahus rays and holdens but it really doesnt feel that way. So every char that comes out kinda can just fit in bruiser comps and make them better removing all negatives from the bruiser comp.

[lone thistle]

i feel more like single heroes are the problem and not a specific style. for example i think nahor is too strong. but at the same time i think tia + amber interaction is too strong... doesnt have to be all about which type one plays

[vital girder]

No one is saying CC / Cleave is worthless people are mad its soo easy to counter cc / cleave and impossible to counter bruiser because every character becomes a bruiser with the right items and shells.

You physically cant ban or pick all the cleanses as a CC player to punish a bruiser theres too many but you can remove all the buff strips or wounds or turn pushes or massiah

[pliant heart]

This mentality is the reason why gacha companies think gacha players are a pushover. Bozos like this who for some reason dont want more and more improvement for the game is the reason why once thriving gacha games become either niche or eos.

[vital girder]

and if the rng isnt on yuor side once the bruisers 1 shot your cc or stun your cc or even turn cut your cc and you lose its too many checks

Bruisers are supposed to be weak to cc to force you to build diff style units in your account. Whats happening is they are just releasing more bruiser chars to fix those issues.

[bleak lintel]

Thats the difference, there are those who know thats not the case.

[vital girder]

You can keep saying that but thats not how people feel and its not gonna stop people from quitting and then you dont have a game. Instead of just addressing people's concerns.

This whole feedback thread is someone who was a t1 player in top 25. This whole better players know better is such a cope.

[bleak lintel]

its just the majority of the playerbase are casuals. So its natural that the voice of the majority is louder. Doesnt mean its true.

[lone thistle]

meta keeps changing though. new animus got released. the thread is already kinda old 😂

[hearty acorn]

if cc/cleave is very strong at a high rank, why is the top 300 2/3 bruiser? Honestly I've seen people dismiss these concerns because 1. the person talking is too high rank so what they experience isn't experienced by the majority of players. 2. the person talking is too low rank so 'doesn't really know'

[lone thistle]

i feel like we got way more cc players lately in rta.

[hearty acorn]

no, the meta hasn't changed for months

[vital girder]

Thats because people have more lattices now and can put some into a few cc chars and guess what they fit the bruiser playstyle too

[bleak lintel]

CC is so strong that bruiser players are either drafting anti CC or CC themselfs in a lot of games.

[pliant heart]

These people actually think gacha games are skill based like csgo or any actual skill based game.
Let them cope into thinking they know how to play a rng based gacha game better.

[hearty acorn]

bruisers drafting a cc unit doesn't make them a cc player, they just need some differential as they are mostly facing other bruisers

[vital girder]

lol i know this bruiser player beat me earlier from counter attacks and raymerry ult lol good thing bramble procced on tia and ray then ult much skill much wow

[pliant heart]

Skill and brain diff

[vital girder]

lol bramble off the strip because they had bulwark

[bleak lintel]

Doesnt make them CC players but proves the point that CC is very strong.

[pliant heart]

Dupes didnt matter, they beat you with their skill cause they know how to play better. Brusier matches take a lot of brain according to t2 players

[bleak lintel]

Especially the release of diting was an insane buff for CC players.

[random harness]

I play cc/cleave and reach mythic. I don't have many tanky units built but if you ask me what is strongest of course bruisers.

What cc is so strong. Reaper cleanser alicorn sylph or one super fast unit already countered the whole cc draft. They have all the tools to counter, it is all given by devs

[vital girder]

lol diting works in Bruiser comps

[hearty acorn]

if cc was so op you wouldn't need to run them with bruisers. Diting is a great t2 counter to mio, a cc unit

[vital girder]

diting hurts t1 too probably more because they have a hard time picking cleansers

[bleak lintel]

Diting has to many counters in a bruiser mirror, so hes way stronger than in a CC setup

[vital girder]

thats cuz diting is bruisers response to t1 players

Put diting and celince in a team and you dont know who to ban

[bleak lintel]

Some people do run pure CC and it feels absolutely unplayable a lot of times. The presence of diting is not enough to counter an entire CC lineup because homie will never get a single turn.

[pliant heart]

Then why do i see diting used more in T2 comps? You can check the ladder if you think otherwise

[vital girder]

Thats great good thing theres 3 other slots and 5 cleansers to choose from.

playing bruiser vs cc should be as miserable as cleave vs bruiser and cc vs cleave

[pliant heart]

I think this adept guy is a rage baiter since the meta rn is favoring his style of play so he feels the need to defend it.

[bleak lintel]

Because diting is crazy strong if he doesnt get countered no matter which playstyle. But its impossible to draft him on 123 as a bruiser player but its totaly possible for a CC player to do that.

[hearty acorn]

yeah not very clever though if he enjoys playing the game

[vital girder]

Theres people like him in all communities they just think they are the secret superior person who understands everything more thna everyone else and everyones just wrong.

[pliant heart]

Yeah, they dont want a balance between playstyle. Just want their favourable style dominate the game so they can feel better about being high rank in a gacha game.

[vital girder]

have some bulwark chars pick plume early remove heinrich from pool all of a sudden cc cant fight u

[hearty acorn]

if these people were at all decent at pvp they wouldn't need such imbalance

[vital girder]

ban massiah and like what does cleave even do lol meanwhile bruisers are like we need aya doki ling sylph sania reaper steps alicorn and amber lol

[bleak lintel]

I feel like you guys just never play against a good CC player. Like if they prebann tia and pick plume,mio,liliam,nahor,heinrich its very hard to win against that.

[vital girder]

Which bruisers 1 shot squishies wellllll Holden Tia Ray Rahu can

[vital girder]

My dude im in mythic and ive swapped to cc becaue cleave is soo easy to stop im speaking from experience.

Im aware playing vs cc players is very annoying but so is the game being catered to 1 playstyle because they cant have any actual counters without calling the game unfair

[pliant heart]

Having so much options to counter both cc and cleave and still complaining. Gotta give props to players like this.

[random harness]

I use the exact team slap one reaper and one sylph alicorn with strife they go back sleep already

I can only win if their cleanser not well built

[vital girder]

lets not even talk about raymerry being a wincondition against cc and cleave she only needs to proc her passive or ult once and you kinda lose the match

[pliant heart]

The fact that these people dont even run er on their cleansers or run the bare min like 150 er and still win says it all.

[vital girder]

raymerry makes reg arena union battle and tournament arena every weekend a chore

[random harness]

I prebanned Aya. If Aya there lose even faster....what is tiamat. Raymerry more scary

[vital girder]

Funny thing aya is a balanced char

but u put reaper steps on her and all of a sudden you can no longer defense break or strip the team without the risk of insta losing

[random harness]

So I don't know those people that claim cc cleave is strong. Yes cc cleave is strong but the oppenent playstyle even stronger

[vital girder]

CC cleave is only considered strong because its the only comp they actually fear and even then its not unwinnable

its the only comp that forces them to change their gear a little and playstyle to deal with and it might negatively effect them in bruiser v bruiser matchups thats why they think its strong

atleast thats what bread and rhonny be saying on their videos about not wanting to build anti cc stuff on their units

[bleak lintel]

Pure cleave is not a thing without p5 massiah/ liliam with beyontin

[jade dagger]

I daresay majority of current playerbase are t2 atm. They just are quiet bcoz yes they have many options. These options e.g reaper alicorn etc are not "uncounterable" u can build ur units for more coverage. E.g build mia or ur nahor faster than your stripper etc, bb a few of ur cc units. Use ninfo in cleave so mas + 1 rev still 1 shots etc. They can't bring lh alicorn reaper all at once and generally its a bit of a guess early in draft. Amber is too op tho.

If u gonna buff cc/cleave tonnes to point where you might be satisfied it maybe t2 players all can quit and you can play spd arena?

In prev season without doki and it was unplayable vs cc. Did you guys complain this mch too? Maybe thats why people quit 😂 jk

[bleak lintel]

Because reaper and strive help so much against freeze

[vital girder]

I dont want bruisers to be useless but i want the counters to bruisers to feel as counters not just potential only way to win if you get lucky.

[random harness]

They mix it up with 1-2 bullwalk which is also a healer. Player need to decide to strip the immunity or not

[pliant heart]

Do the freeze characters strip? If you cant bring bulwark or a high er cleanser or counter their stripper then its a you problem buddy even with all the options

[vital girder]

you should feel the need to have a char to potentially speed check someone

[dark sandal]

Hello basic

[rustic walrus]

im sure etheria would have millions of players if they didnt nerf rev

[jade dagger]

Nah they shud buff rev 30% more dmg instead 👍

[dark sandal]

We would never know

[pliant heart]

and im sure millions of people are playing cause they enjoy the bruiser meta

[bleak lintel]

Nahor literally does that

[dark sandal]

#buff kraken to be another nahor

[vital girder]

rev was also kinda dumb havign a single shell be better than an entire archtype of char is dumb

[pliant heart]

He strips one unit, does your team consist of only one unit

[rustic walrus]

how many bulwark strippers do people bring into a draft?

[vital girder]

Supports and CC dont do alot of damage because they provide utility the moment they do enough to kill whats the point of dps its the same with bruisers and BB / amber everyone is basically a bruiser with the items

[hearty acorn]

so many braindead takes, we are not advocating for a cleave supremacy forever, but a meta which shifts, if you can't see why that's important to players, no need to discuss it. Hopefully devs are not so braindead.

[bleak lintel]

Does my team consist of 4 cleansers + bullwark?

[dark sandal]

It's like if bb is a thing rev also should be but one thing got removed while the other stays

[rustic walrus]

maybe i ll win against cc if i bring 5 cleansers, wait i dont think we have 5 cleansers

[pliant heart]

For real, for some reason these people think we want cleave to be the only viable playstyle like they want bruisers

[vital girder]

This i agree with but with that it just turns into a stale meta id rather remove both and let us have different variety of sets

[rustic walrus]

literally see any pure cc run, they kill pure tank units in 2 turns if theres a jackal or two in there

[jade dagger]

Honestly they just needa release more a lot more t1 units, buff a few units like loan and khloros for example, give t1 sme better shells and nerf fking amber

[vital girder]

Like bruisers should be hella tanky even making other units hard to kill but its soo dumb when they take soo mcuh damage and 1 shot people

[dark sandal]

Or change bb passive to more hp gone more damage and speed hmm

[pliant heart]

Alicorn buffed to cleanse 3 debuffs, bulwark requiring only 8 matrix, reaper steps, aya passive and these people still complain.

[rustic walrus]

alicorn does help a lot when i have 14 debuffs agreed

[vital girder]

Yes bruiser is supposed to lose to CC its your counter you shouldnt keep drafting a bruiser vs it thats how drafting is supposed to work right now you dont have to

[pliant heart]

, then that means u got outdrafted. If you letting them land 14 debuffs

[vital girder]

if i start drafting cleave and they go bruiser i have to swap to cc if im cc and they start going cleave i gotta go a bit more bruiser

[jade dagger]

Such a bad take

[lone thistle]

and what are you supposed to draft against them? your unlatticed cleave units?

[jade dagger]

So cc MUST beat bruiser is it lmao?

[rustic walrus]

alicorn is literally a fake shell post its 1 cleanse attempt. most cc units run codex but sure, alicorn is so good

[vital girder]

everyone has that issue your supposed to cover a wider roster not just only pick 1 type of unit

[jade dagger]

Why sre they unlaticed t2 has way more lattice needed than t1 ans thats cleave + cc

[vital girder]

If you want characters to feel different and do different things and not just all do the same thing yea you kinda need chars who specialize in doing stuff

[rustic walrus]

the answer with these people is always down to 'just speed contest in the end' even if they dont come out and say it.

[jade dagger]

Ye and they they will be fjrst to quit in spd arena coz they got less red spds.

[lone thistle]

huh? i thought t2 has so many heroes compared to cleave and cc. suddenly we have less to lattice?

[vital girder]

Yea and your method is just outlasting everything whats the difference your stat check takes 10 min mine takes 30 seconds

[jade dagger]

Yes so many SRs. Do the maths then come back

[lone thistle]

thats just coping at this point

[rustic walrus]

t2 needs to lattice 10 different bruisers, cc just run nahor(runnable at 111), mio, heinrich(just needs s3), plume and a raymerry. maybe an aya to steal her. and they call bruiser mirrors unoriginal

[jade dagger]

I feel u dont play arena in long ime anyways w.e happens happens devs do w.e the fk they want anyways

[swift temple]

[pliant heart]

[vital girder]

lol im in mythic brother i swapped to cc cleave because cleave is easy to counter

[jade dagger]

Feel free to list it out and prove me wrong

[pliant heart]

10 different bruisers meanwhile in the tourney the most drafted bruisers were tia, rahu and holden.

[dapper reef]

no he spent those

[jade dagger]

And rahu is useless vs cc

[lone thistle]

why dont you list it for me? you started the argument. i dont want to waste my time just to prove a stranger on the internet wrong

[rustic walrus]

ask cc runners there last draft:
mio, nahor plume, heinrich

[jade dagger]

Its bcoz u cant anyways I cbf proving soemthing so obvs.

[lone thistle]

can do the same argument to you now. why dont you do it??? you cant???? see how silly that argument is

[jade dagger]

Caladborg just explained it

[vital girder]

Bruisers def have a wider roster than CC

[pliant heart]

Blud that was in response to ur 10 different bruisers comment

[vital girder]

because if those tournies were on current patch

[dapper reef]

speed diting is an op opener

[random harness]

Which 10 I don't know. They only need 10 to fight bruiser mirror. Fight cc no need 10

[thin imp]

Plume hein disagrees with this lol. They do lot of fking damage but dont proc bb.

[vital girder]

wed see alot of lilith ray diting and celince

[pliant heart]

I mean the tourney clearly showed how exciting the bruiser meta was. People were talking about czn during the bruiser v bruiser matchup.

[vital girder]

until they got bulwark and cleansers and then u wasted a turn

[rustic walrus]

i mean i have to lattice fuqiu, doki, aya, holden, tia, lilith, vero, ditting,rahu, kok, celince to be competitive at the bruiser level.
And ofc plume, raymerry but everyone needs those 2

cc players need mio, hein, nahor as a base and maybe add lilith, obol, kraken, as needed(2 SRs)

[thin imp]

So what are you supposed to outspeed a speed playstyle to win? You do realize outside of freya, some people could just be slow af.

[jade dagger]

I brought fuqiu aya tia ling and it lost to plume diting mio lily before. Took 10 mins of me not moving really fun 🙂

[vital girder]

True but plume is highly contested and can be a burden with reaper steps bait / strive bait and hein gets banned most of the time i pick him lol

[rustic walrus]

forgot a few units im sure, like lingluo

[vital girder]

You mean you need good stats in a stat rpg games thats like saying you need enough defense to survive the hit what if people dont have defensive gear?

[thin imp]

I would just really want to see some of you players play vs t1 only but with 320 max speed

[dapper reef]

diting disables the push cleansers, your followup strip removes the bulwark and lays down more debuffs, your cc/def break/damage after that finishes things off as you rotate. very easy and simple

[pliant heart]

He's probably talking about fuqui, lingluo, dokidoki, aya, tiamat, holden, rahu, plume, veronica and sania. Theres 10

[vital girder]

not if they resist topor lol topor isnt a 100% proc and diting doesnt have max eff acc u usually get 2 acc 1 def for cc

[dapper reef]

DokiDoki? For the bruiser mirror?

[thin imp]

I mean ive outsped some t1 players and then if I really wanted to just write them down and speed contest them every game and they just have no hope of playing vs me. Wp I rolled some speed

[dapper reef]

sounds like a build issue on your part

[rustic walrus]

to help survive cc(doesnt help but we live in cope anyway)

[pliant heart]

Lol yeah probably cause you picked bulwark freya on 3p

[vital girder]

No you just make your strips faster than diting like your supposed to in CC cuz running into bulwark = insta lost

[jade dagger]

U will at least 90% apply torpor... esp if usinf diting as cc unit style...

[dapper reef]

Sania is also pretty int these days. Maybe replace her with Lilith or Celince

[rustic walrus]

nobody uses sania

[thin imp]

I can raw outspeed some cc players if I gear for it.

[random harness]

It is so obvious you don't play speed draft. Cc auto lost to cleave pusher team play cc need other units also.

Lily,tsuki,Freya,beyon,yeli,massiah,nahor,Hein,plume,MiO,raymerry,navette,diting,Doki for steal

[rustic walrus]

yes im sure nevette* has seen a lot of your lattices

[thin imp]

But then its spreadsheets. Ive cc'ed cleave teams with their own units.

[vital girder]

Listen its fine enjoy your trash t2 playstyle the people in here have already said they are ready to quit if it doesnt get changed your constant defense about it doesnt change anything but make people wanna quit more

[jade dagger]

Bro if ur cc outspd u will beat cleave team wtf u on abt

[rustic walrus]

i just dont want to see people crying here while lying and misrepresenting the meta everyday

[dapper reef]

i'm guessing these bulwark units also have full effres built and your massiah can't kill them right, and also they all told you they built full effres so you're not making it up in your brain and then getting mad at your own idea, right? just making sure

[vital girder]

and then you guys will be the same ones on here like i cant believe soo many people left man such a shame

[thin imp]

I mean ur so dismissive go and queue up with 320 speed only. Like bro not everyone is rolling speed like crazy. Cap ur units speed and go play vs cc. Use t2 units only

[pliant heart]

The fact that u use bulwark freya on 3p and call it outspeed is hilarious. Ofcourse u can put freya on bw on 3p and outspeed since cc players need strippers and they cant really be putting all their fastest gear on strippers.

[vital girder]

I dont care what any of yall got to say because it doesnt change my experience in the game current game un fun if new patch doesnt fix i quit like several others

[dapper reef]

your experience in game (randomly making up builds you're sure you lost to with no evidence)

[thin imp]

Yeah but its not only abt ur experience, if u luck sack tbh. Speed is a luck factor

[rustic walrus]

you have made it very clear you dont care what anyone but you says dont worry we got that

[jade dagger]

Fair point. But don't write ur experience as gospel coz that is how it comes off as

[thin imp]

If i can be fast why wouldn't I just speed contest every turn 1 player and tell them they have no right to play turn 1?

[rustic walrus]

'just outspeed bro, its a farming for stats game'

[vital girder]

Who said im writing as gospel i put my experience on here you guys keep fighting against it saying it doesnt happen and also claiming several times tha i dont play the game or arena

[rustic walrus]

[vital girder]

Truth is a very large amount of people have experessed their disatisfaction and you guys just trying to tell them nuh uh isnt gonna change anything

[thin imp]

I mean they could pick the freya. Or sometimes im outspeeding with lily. Lol or even blue rin.

[jade dagger]

Just read thru ur comments man i didnt wanna post here but the t1 v t2 sht was too much and game state stale af with rerun events

[pliant heart]

What good does picking freya do against t2 player who is picking plume and fuqui on bulwark

[thin imp]

I mean ive had turn 1 players pick amber vs me when I freya lock but they get cc'ed and lapped to oblivion.

[vital girder]

thats cool but that has nothing to do with this feedback post its about people not liking the meta i agree the stale pve experience also sucks and probably the bigger reason most of the people have left. Im saying me and the others who have said it here will quit if the new season doesnt fix our issues.

[dapper reef]

because yesterday you spent an unbelievable amount of time insisting with no proof that anti-cleave units don't need to build survivability and your justification before you devolved into insults was "I just feel like that's how it is"

[vital girder]

You argueing with me about what was the bigger reason people quit doesnt change why im quitting and thats fine.

[vital girder]

I dont care my guy i dont have to prove anything to you i dont owe you anything if you choose not to believe me i dont care.

[rustic walrus]

everything survives his massiah bro

[thin imp]

People are quitting bc they havent made many efforts to improve the game and ignore communicating. While I agree with some of your cleave takes, I cannot agree with ur cc takes. Now ur just harboring on people quiting and using them quitting to justify ur takes which is not necessarily true.

[rustic walrus]

my lvl 1 andrew survives that massiah atp, pls buff him

[vital girder]

You keep saying people im saying I am quitting and the others in here have said why they are quitting. I dont care if you dont agree wiht me we have stated our reasoning. You cant argue us into staying or playing more.

[thin imp]

Ofc not but what exactly is the solution that they'll implement. The game is in need of 5000 nerfs across the board.

[rustic walrus]

'cant argue us into staying'

[vital girder]

I said the people in this post are saying why they are quitting im not speaking why others are quitting.

[thin imp]

But the moment they nerf ssr people cry for reset. Which they dont wanna give.

[rustic walrus]

we are trying so hard to make you stay in the game bro, literally gutted you are leaving

[vital girder]

Dont care what other people are saying we are saying why we are.

[random harness]

Seldom cc can outspeed pusher like lily/tsuki/Freya. When the draft exposed when pick 2. Opponents can plan to counter cleave already. Unless that is god account with many red speed where cc win with speed

[dapper reef]

nobody is trying to argue anyone into staying

[thin imp]

There are people who are fast. Should they just auto win. For skillfully rolling speed.

[vital girder]

No your actively making peolpe wanna quit by being annoying and unsufferable.

[dapper reef]

just think of it as RTA

[rustic walrus]

it takes a lot of skill and talent to roll red speed

[jade dagger]

Dont u build lily too? Surely her s1 max and she can fit into cc teams no?

[vital girder]

Anyone acting like this game takes skill is coping for their own lack of skill in other games. Its a very easy game.

[thin imp]

I mean i opt into speed dps vs cc more so than cleanse.

[dapper reef]

Here comes the bait, boys

[green meadow]

you rang bro?

[jade dagger]

Takes skill to make money and whale here bro.

[pliant heart]

Theres 3 buttons, s1, s2 and s3. But let people think this game takes skill to play. Let them feel better for their lack of skill in other games.

[vital girder]

the irl skill check is high as fuck

[rustic walrus]

bro its a dumb take throughout t2 players also have a built lily, yeli, plume, ray, doki, mass(if day 1 players),ditting and freya, nahor, hein are noticiably less lattice hungry than say a holden

[random harness]

Yes I do built lily/Freya/MiO and tsuki. My lily not super fast. It is faster than my cc units but not super fast

[vital girder]

dudes be there like hmmmmmmmmm sooo many options do i do 0 damage to this char or 0 damage to this one cuz its being healed by fu qu

[pliant heart]

These types of games are really simplistic and reason why people tend to play but some of these people who p2w to the top think it takes skills. Let them cope.

[jade dagger]

I dunno cc playees can pick tm pusheers u have the lattice to imho...

[vital girder]

you can fuck up CC alot harder than both bruiser and cleave

[thin imp]

I mean turn ordering and when to use some buttons matters more in a longer game. Not to say it rewuires ALOT of skill, it's a gacha. I do think cc takes more skill than messiah cleave however.

[rustic walrus]

i ll say fuqiu was the rare bruiser w in this cc hell, they should release more units like her

[vital girder]

Cleave probably the easiest if beyontin just targeted right you could probably just auto play pvp

[jade dagger]

Nah cope. It takes a lot of skill to swipe for p5 mas...

[thin imp]

Atleast when theres a cc/cleave draft, their targeting matters. Messiah is so brainless and braindead rhe autoplay can play

[pliant heart]

I think you are confusing skill. All three playstyles are simple af. This is not chess brother.

[vital girder]

This x100 but you could def mess up CC order but its not rocket science you just cant put it on auto

[rustic walrus]

lets play chess, im bored, do you have a lichess account?

[pliant heart]

Go play chess online if you are bored blud. dont need to ask me

[jade dagger]

Ok let me just open my stockfish...

[rustic walrus]

ok hans

[thin imp]

Yeah but we have braindead, brainless, and sleeper. With cleave, cc, bruiser in that ordering. The skill in drafting is standard drafting which combines stuff.

[pliant heart]

[vital girder]

bruisers have the easiest drafting by far lol

[ember barn]

there is skill in this game, but it has nothing to do with actually playing out your strat. the skill is in the drafting/knowing the meta and learning your rivals teams. Additionally, in building units in ways that actually cover all your bases. the strats themselves are simple once they get running

[vital girder]

are you kidding lol you guys litterally cant be banned out LOL yall are soo privledged and dont realize it

[thin imp]

Pure bruiser is legit the most sleeper shit like near clrave but xlrave is just outspeed press auto and bruiser is bramble rahu.

You have to agree that cleave is the least interactive one and thr one that autoplay works with.

[vital girder]

Yea i said it earlier cleave is probably easiest its least rng and fastest game outside of turn pushers targeting wrong units its pretty ezpz

[thin imp]

Let's see the cleave defenders now.

[jade dagger]

bruisers have the easiest drafting by far lol

[vital girder]

None of us are claiming the game is hard lol this aint cs go league or dota its a p2w gacha game

[thin imp]

Cleave has the easiest drafting bc theres 5 units only to pick . Same 5 units send it and hope ur wallet outcheck opponent

[vital girder]

cleave has 1 unit massiah and if hes gone your no longer cleavin your playin cc with a dps

[dapper reef]

3 easy games https://tenor.com/view/grenade-drop-stir-the-pot-engagement-soldier-meme-gif-3438786261822961862

[jade dagger]

Ppl still ban mas?

[ember barn]

bruisers have the deepest draft pool/easiest time rolling effective gear*. Cleave has the most straight forward anything, cause they basically have only one additional option for every slot. And CC vomits its stuff and wins or loses. You guys gotta get off your camps.

[vital girder]

3 easy games too hard for you to go pro in

[rustic walrus]

well not at the top, but yeah probably around early mid mythics

[dapper reef]

i believe with no evidence that i can go pro in all of them and if you don't believe me well that's my experience

[vital girder]

yes yes yes agreed my friend

[rustic walrus]

im trying so hard to keep you from competing bro, harder than im trying to keep wolfy playing rta

[vital girder]

Yea they do and unless hes on the block ban slot he usually gets insta banned in any comp ive gone full cc comps if i pick massiah they ban him lol

[thin imp]

Yeah I agree here. Bruisers can get by with effective gear but u do need better gear. Kind of a low floor high ceiling. Then clwave just gears with oogabooga speed ignore ehat rihhtside main stat. Thats why tsuki is often the fastest. CC gearing is quite difficult tbh and alot slower bc of the eff acc requirements. But that difficulty is rng that some people will never see good speed rolls on eff acc.

[vital girder]

great way to protect other picks funny enough

[jade dagger]

Yah well I never seen mas ban in 3 weeks. Ray is much bigger issue and needs nerf imho

[rustic walrus]

why do people ban your trash mass which dont kill right side acc units

[thin imp]

Literally I want a ray nerf and ive dumped 555 lattices on her and idec if theres no reset

[vital girder]

Ray is def a problem but shes def my least fave unit to use vs more bruisery comps. she has a super hard time vs tanky units and constant shields

[thin imp]

Here is now where the p5 rays come in and say it doesnt matter

[jade dagger]

Nah she rips thru shields lol

[vital girder]

if shes p5 i dont have a p5 ray

[thin imp]

My ray sucks and is really only relevant when I get triple turns. She cant kill a t1 team in one hit.

[rustic walrus]

ray just stat checks everything in the game lmao

[random harness]

The main problem with this game is the lattice. When start a lot of player thought the game will be balance and offer different playstyle so they invest on the playstyle they like. Then devs decided to focus on one by give better treatment. All the previous investment no longer work because the best playstyle is bruiser which the most balanced and widest coverage.
So even if player try to switch they will be very behind so they just focus back on their existing playstyle.
Those that select the privileged playstyle now say no need to differentiate can mix. Normally either is spender/whale or pick the favour playstyle

[jade dagger]

Mine p0 but generally rip thru shield.. 3 s3s im a row is nuts

[dapper reef]

this unit design team feels like it's made up of the kids at your lunch table who used to draw really stupid new pokemon and talk about how each one could basically kill god with a flick of its finger and how cool they would be in-game

[vital girder]

Yes and no i mean thats just the design of these games your supposed to always feel like you have more units you want to invest in and theres supposed to be a punishment wasting resoources

[green meadow]

Nevettes got S tier animations with a c tier kit lol

[thin imp]

I "picked" (bc pve makes u cleave. Xiada, yeli, rilmocha) cleave with no mio tsuki hein, forced to switch. But I still have wasted lattices in them. And im f2p. Im just too slow now that I do have the t1 support units to even think abt competing vs the other turn 1s.

[jade dagger]

She is SR lvl

[dapper reef]

my hot take is that she's perfectly tuned for the version of the game where damage and healing were sane

[rustic walrus]

i faced a bruiser mirror where the guy picked nevette at 5 and i was like of all cc pivots you chose that one

[jade dagger]

They shud use purp lattice for her

[thin imp]

Every patch im saving lattices building half a old unit only. With more cooked units and unbuilt stuff than ever.

[rustic walrus]

same

[thin imp]

Luckily nahor been a godsend at 111

[rustic walrus]

though tbf we shouldnt shit talk nevette too much or she ll be nahor'd and then we will all be cc whor-

[green meadow]

I dk, they gave her like 800 base atk and cant crit, I think plumes base is over 1k?

[thin imp]

Plume got the ld privilege.

[rustic walrus]

dev team has shown the only 'balancing' they know is buffing

[jade dagger]

Nah her animations warrant at least nahir status this is a gacha game not meta right 😂

[random harness]

Yes I focus mostly on old units

[thin imp]

Well unfortunately people want reset events if theres even small nerfs. And they've centered their revenue on lattices.

[vital girder]

Honestly if she had a buff strip or she ignored effect resistance instead of defense shed be sick

[dapper reef]

you sound like a member of the etheria unit design team here

[rustic walrus]

fuck reset events bro, how are they thinking a PVP game can last long without any nerfs

[thin imp]

Im lowk down for some small nerfs and reworks with no reset event atp. What am I resetting if game eos and die

[jade dagger]

Wdym perfectly balanced. Wait till next LD

[dapper reef]

i need my 8 lattices out of this piece of shit p0 shirtless himbo

[green meadow]

Lmao yea next ld will be like a healer with aoe strip + wound or something ridiculous

[dapper reef]

i will kick that fucker Grandy in the nuts if i ever see him for crimes against my early progression with his propaganda

[rustic walrus]

lowkey i want to reset rosa, shadow sania and doki(she dont do shit for me)

[vital girder]

probably a healer with another revive

[dapper reef]

@thin imp he was clearing all content with massiah, i thought i was set for aoe pve dps with him, wasted a bunch of tofu

[vital girder]

Aoe team revive like ruele and it will be off turn on a 2 turn cd that procs once someone dies

[green meadow]

Dude was literally out there running double healer massiah into all content lmfao, visionary 🐋

[thin imp]

Messiah early game prog was like a wallet check when literally any other aoe dps does better cuz mess is a pvp unit

[dapper reef]

yeah man, everyone knows that now

[rustic walrus]

i used my selector for rosa due to prydwen....

[thin imp]

I was a xiada rilmocha enjoyer. Hey atleast now u can use messiah in pvp! I have 2 dead units

[jade dagger]

Ye maybe her passive is when she loses more thab 50% hp she aoe revive full cleanse and heal to max team place 2 turn immunity and max tm push coz we really need that as t2 players 🙂

[rustic walrus]

i have a p5 555 rosa

[dapper reef]

where can i use him in pvp, i have no speed and no freya

[thin imp]

My rilmocha is relegated to be a speed dps that is worse than blue rin. Xiada is unpickable in this bruiser cc meta

[rustic walrus]

rosa buffs so seanb can keep fucking winning

[thin imp]

Seanb is one of those t1 amber playsrs that ive cc'ed

[jade dagger]

Only t1 players full abuse amber....

[rustic walrus]

t1 players when you ask the shell their beyo is on

[thin imp]

Bro some t1 players called for amber to be nerfed just for t2 so their beyo wouldn't be touched

[rustic walrus]

yeah i saw that in another feedback thread

[bleak lintel]

Bro i literally told them at the beginning "just quit" and they shit on me for being the one who doesnt care about the health of the game. Now homie realizes how baseless his arguments are and says "well you cant tell me to stay if i want to quit". Bro i said it at the beginning just quit!

[rustic walrus]

im literally gutted wolfy wont play here anymore. Wdym i wont get to see him crying here everytime i enter etheria discord???

[bleak lintel]

Its hilarious i hope they stay i always have a great time, its like watching trash tv

[dapper reef]

he's capping he's not quitting

[vital girder]

Yea people like you are just annoying and no reason to talk to.

[vagrant helm]

Everyday i wake up and look at the leaderboards and realize theres no need to listen to nonsense these t2 players spew about balance😂

The stats speak for themselves, these guys just dont want to advocate for more balanced gameplay causs itll implicate them

Nevette release doesnt help t1 at all. Diting is there to help t2 more than t1. The direction of the game is clear as day from the latest units

[vital girder]

yea just ignore or block them it makes it alot easier

[vagrant helm]

Its the same 5 guys working together to gang up on people😂

[hidden wing]

Laughing emoji

[jade dagger]

Cant wait for t1 spd meta where leaderboard units and players position never change

[vagrant helm]

enter plume
enter reaper steps
T2 players also can slot their best speed gear on 1 unit to try to speed contest, dont tell me u havent thought abt that
Also T2 can survive a mess cleave as well so its not pure speed contest, ur fault if u draft df scaling units into mess

[hidden wing]

Bro thinks cleave should always guaranteed 1 shot a fully built tank team

[jade dagger]

Position not change since fastest take 1st spot. U still sleepy go back to sleep speed meta never coming hopefully

[vagrant helm]

I nvr cleave should always 1 shot fully built tank teams tho, u should learn to read better

[hidden wing]

Bro has me block but still reads my messages 🤣

[vagrant helm]

Like i said u can still tank a mess nuke so im not sure what ur on about speed meta

Theres also plenty of cutting mechanics in the game

"U still sleepy go back to sleep" people when u give rational arguments here

No point debating all this nonsense coming from some people, u can stick to ur one sided bruiser dominance and enjoy a game with only bruiser mirrors next season.

[hidden wing]

Its not even bruiser mirrors only right now

Bet hes back in no time to debate more

[vital girder]

enthralling bruiser gameplay staring at each other until heal debuff kicks in or damage buff becomes too hard to heal lol

[jade dagger]

Ye all these t1 propanganda ppl hav same arguments. No point coz even with suggestions on counter strats they ignore and spout same thing without latticing other units or tryin diff build

[fringe turret]

Would agree to some extent, the leaderboards is mostly t2 bruiser comps

[jade dagger]

T1 spd meta means fastest wins no? Lol

[green meadow]

I mean kinda? Like if you can get a freya debuff into a def break then an atk up buffed yeli/mass you really should board clear, but just atk buff + mass s3 shouldn't

[fringe turret]

Mess is easily countered by hp scaling bruisers. People complaining abt him make the mistake of drafting def scalars into him

[vital girder]

longer game doesnt = better

[hidden wing]

So you're saying as long as the opponent does nothing at all it should one shot. I agree.

[rustic walrus]

yeah bro blocked me ages ago but argues me every time he gets the chance. he just cant stop himself

[jade dagger]

Fastest wins always = worse

[vital girder]

not really they specifically increased bruiser matches at 1 point because they were going on for 20 min i think even bruisers thought that was a good patch by adjusting the auto anti heal and damage boost

[fringe turret]

Well u can draft hp scalars into mess and survive the fastest wont always win

Also reaper/lighthouse + plume gives opportunity to cut as well

Strive too

[vital girder]

longer games dont mean better when theres no threat to lose until the final moments

[rustic walrus]

yeah tank down meta was boring, but thats really not relevant now is it. Bruiser mirrors literally dont take too long anymore unless its some incredible vero or ditting sole dps draft

[hidden wing]

Yeah theyre pretty quick. Especially with all the 3 CD I see sniping off 1 unit

[vagrant helm]

Lol u got clown emoji cause u made sense and that guy cant argue back😂

[rustic walrus]

ahahahahah says the guy who always clown emojis people here for months now i cant

[jade dagger]

Imagine spd contest with strive cut mechanics and xpecting spd contester to survive mas lol

[rustic walrus]

wait bro unblocked me, when did this miracle happen

[fringe turret]

Theres plenty of cases where hp scalars survive mess, go and check the replays in summit. Would be quite enlightening for u

[vital girder]

Said it before and ill say it again the biggest issue you are probably getting from the people complaining in here is the game feels catered to 1 side. Its not about a meta or making cleave the best or making tank the worst. Every char that comes out seems to be catered to help bruiser comp. Even when cc gets new units its also a bruiser char. When cleave was supposed to get an hp % damage dealer he works better in t2 because his passive goes off ont he 2nd turn.

We still havent gotten a 2nd cleave char that works in pvp. The last cc char feels like an SR and even nahor needed to wait to be buffed.

Everytime yall act like its just because we just want bruisers to suck its annoying because no one is saying that.

[jade dagger]

Ur arguing an argument u put in someones mouth. Is this called strawman or clown?

[vital girder]

Every char works in bruiser comps because worst case you put them in BB and they survive the initial cleave and can be cc cleansed and base damage is high enough to 1 shot anyone not in bb.

Raymerry being in the game just makes this 10x worse because she litterally can solo a non BB team from just you killing someone on her team.

[hidden wing]

Ray can solo my BB team if she feels like it 😔

[vital girder]

Can keep coping and trying to reframe people's complaints and pretend they just want to dominate the meta. Im also not gonna waste time with the rage baiters anymore it is litterally the same 5 people and they do it in multiple channels.

[hidden wing]

There is a lot of tension in this chat lmao

I wish t2 dominated and I never lost like y'all believe it does 😢

[vagrant helm]

Dont bother reasoning with that guy bro hes been spewing nonsense from the start

Waste of ur time and energy

[jade dagger]

Im spewing nonsense

[vital girder]

Tbf even though laugh disagrees hes been pretty chill for the most part

i dont think hes rage baiting i think hes had some really unfun games against cc and doesnt want it to dominate the game i get it. Other dudes just was trying to get you mad.

[hidden wing]

T2 side, nah I feel its pretty balanced, dont want a speed meta

T1 side, Dont talk to him bro! Hes cringe troll evil demon incell bro! Block him reeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[fringe turret]

I mean laugh if u want i can help u with ur drafts see where it can do better against cc

[vital girder]

I doubt he has issues wiht the draft the game is truely not fun against cc when its winning and it lasts for more than 3 turns ur just sitting there doing nothing.

[fringe turret]

Cause ive lost plenty of cc games cause the opponent was smart or drafted well

[vital girder]

and sometimes cc just works you could have max eff res and they just hit every single CC just like when they resist its just as annoying

[jade dagger]

Ill show u a replay of ll aya fq tia losing to diting lily mio plume if fearless not locked

[hidden wing]

Yeah. If CC was tier 0 meta Idk how you could enjoy any game. It would be like playing yugioh

[fringe turret]

Idk abt fearless im talking abt regular summit

[jade dagger]

Imagine that 2 anti ccs lose

[vital girder]

Lol listen i had a game were mass with 0 eff res resisted 3 ccers with max eff accuracy and i just won it was funny for me but he def probably raged

[pallid canopy]

fearless is nobodys land

[hidden wing]

Effect Res in ER is ass.
Rng goes both ways

[ember barn]

Interesting always seeing the same "points." Speed is the actual highest ceiling stat that does nearly guarantee win. The issue is one small thing. Rolling several red pieces for several units is impossible (thankfully.) The reason T1 cleave loses to stuff is that it isn't fast enough. In this game being fast enough doesn't mean going first, it means lapping. But getting the speed to lap is extremely rare, and in higher tiers people will try to keep up with you. So yeah. People who can't understand that what they call "imbalance" is a matter of them running the most premium team without the most premium gear will never get old. The actual issue cleave needs addressed is giving it a deeper roster.

[fringe turret]

Ive missed nahor freeze with a 300% eff acc nahor on the same guys aya like 8/10 times in etherena so im pretty sure people complaining just dont have high enough eff res tbh

[jade dagger]

Thats just bad rng

[fringe turret]

Bruh😂

Why u giving me clown emoji for that

[jade dagger]

310 res aya never resisted nahor ever.

[vital girder]

The thing is other games solve this issue with units that counter speed. Solving it by just being tanky and not being able to die just limits the unit variety in the future. So more characters like freya.

[pallid canopy]

eff res on this game is weirdly calculated because my fuqU on 80% resisted more than my 270 doki

[hidden wing]

I can have 3 300% eff res and none resist multiple times in a match lmao

[fringe turret]

Hmm maybe show vid of match and pic of stats?

[ember barn]

I do think the playstyle is lame. I started this game cause of Messiah being my branc of design. But I hate playing cleave, so I never use him anymore. It is one dimensional and brain-dead.

[hidden wing]

Alicorn does nothing to help me 😔
I have 12 debuffs

[vital girder]

The entire game is kinda easy unfortunately. Its a gacha game theres not much in here for strategy.

[hidden wing]

Tru. Its never gonna be hyper complex when most matchs are press s3. Wait to aoe s3 again

[vital girder]

im more scared of t2 units coutner attacking me then ever attacking on turn and pressing a button

Raymerry's ult isnt the problem its the passive proccing off turn or before amber or right after amber

[ember barn]

Again, strategy exists. But it is like deck building in card games. Playing out your deck is rarely the hard part, with some exceptions. Building the right things, picking the right things, mind gaming and adapting (which only happens in draft phase). Figuring it all out is the skill of this game, but in the modern day we can all check bread or Ronny or whoever and kinda get it handed to us for the most part. Don't delude ourselves into thinking the game would be as clear if the info wasn't served to everyone without having to playtest everything blindly with limited lattices.

[rustic walrus]

the eff res formula literally trolls on this point.... eff res and eff acc when equal gives nahor like a 75% chance of hitting his freeze and 90% of hitting his def down and res down. Actually its even higher to get a freeze because a res down on his first hit will mean his second hit will VERY likely have a freeze.
not even going into how cc units can go triple acc if they want while the aya and ling also need hp so the res and acc contest is usually to accs benefit

Thats just pure math bro, anything else is just anecdotal nonsense. nahors pretty much ALWAYS land because the math says so

[vital girder]

Listen Rhonny is a beast he figured out the game early he thought in weird ways and it worked i liked watching him and bread create strats.