Amber Shell Adjustments

[wise escarp]

First of all i despise this shell. Now lets try to be more objective:

This Shells powerlevel is above any other.

• 2nd Life
• Immunity
• almost unkillable paired with BB
• cant be debuffed but can still receive healing from teammates
• insta turn out of freeze
• burst heal
• fuqiu passive boost Turn+ even though they frozen
• amber/tiamat bug

Just highlighting all the benefits of this shell shows how overwhelming it is compared to other shells.

Some ppl might say just use wound. we got only 2 animus with aoe wound(heinrich,mio)

This cant be the solution to deal with something like this. on the contrary if this shell had an offensive version it be 50% dmg increase + extra turn on kill + full skill reset.(op right)

Suggestions for Amber nerf:

• Remove healing out of frozen state
• Animus cant act coming out of frozen state
• Animus S2 and S3 on CD coming out of frozen state
• Frozen units dont actively participate in battle -> cant be healed nor passively turn meter pushed

XD u gotta adjust this + also fix amber/tia interaction.

[raven crystal]

QQ much

[lofty marsh]

I think Amber is a not enough counters situation just like CC last season. There should maybe be a shell that can counterattack Amber in some way through wounding or something, that way you can draft your “anti-Amber shell unit” the same way the Amber player can draft random Amber units

It also literally does nothing for you until you proc, you get negative tempo from Amber, and if you do happen to have a wound unit then it does literally nothing

HP lock with liliam is also a soft counter since you won’t regain any HP

I don’t think Amber is too strong, just not enough shells / units with wound yet

[rough magnet]

Fuqiu tm boost shouldnt interact with a frozen unit tho, also shouldnt be able to heal amber units because you cant buff amber units. Rest can stay the same imo.

[digital knot]

About Liliam countering Amber shell i believe you are wrong there, when the animus enter Amber state they cleansed the hp lock so Amber in actuality counters Liliam

[edgy current]

u talking bout the same shell that have a 6 turn cd on a slow tank

[lofty marsh]

amber heals, then cleanses. So in the same way that wound counters amber, HP lock counters amber because you can't restore HP that's been locked.

[digital knot]

I’m talking about the shell ability to cleanse the hp ceiling here

[chilly adder]

As a t2 player, amber only feels good on Tiamat. I’m not putting this shell on any of my other bruisers

[acoustic mist]

I am only 50% t2 user but I do agree. Only Tiamat can abuse that shell. Although I can see Misuzumi also abusing this shell.

[quaint burrow]

another post that proves this server needs restriction regarding balancing based on rank

[rugged crown]

Iced state isn’t a freeze it’s a special buff it’s pretty strong shouldn’t be getting heal from others for sure

Amber tia bug is because how the game treats priority
So amber heals first gets tia past 8 or at 8 stacks tia passives takes priority transform gets the turn priority then looses all stacks all this happens instantly then she goes aoe then goes back to human form

[wise escarp]

i finished top 200

[quaint rampart]

I think your idea for not getting an action immediately after coming out of ice is the best of the bunch tbh

[rocky pecan]

you lock them in amber state

[sage locust]

How many times you see liliam make enemies who use amber with bb on 0 hp on pvp? Never....so actually they got the benefit because even if their hp is halfed then they heal 1/4 and heal more after they come out freeze

[rocky pecan]

no they mean when you kill them, you can lock their hp again. So it’s better to kill. then do the s3

[sage locust]

Its 200% def with bb....how much you can lock

[rocky pecan]

a good bit tbh. tho i wish there were more strip into def break units so you could snipe things easier

[sage locust]

I dont think locking hp by 25% or even under a good bit...tbh the problem rn lot of healer use bb with hp so its hard to snipe them even with def break and fast dps...sadly idk why celice never meta vs bruiser maybe that was people forced to build full eff res on their healer

[rocky pecan]

because she requires hard followup, and after her s3 she generally didnt do anything. She just sat there. She’s a hp tank but a dps char like xiada has higher hp. That starting shield at least lets her add to the battle earlier on

[cinder pelican]

I very much second all of this, I don't think people who don't think amber is a big deal play in the top ranks 'cause it's pretty largely abused and is now very common on Lily and Beyontin (which is cancer). As the OP says...it just does too much and you have to do too much to try and counter it, especially with Tia 'cause you can still do everything right and get screwed. With Fuqiu, even with wound Tia gets a heal from Fuqiu's ability - it's nuts. Amber needs to be updated big time it's way too strong right now.

[rocky pecan]

I’m not gonna hold you, it is a very easy shell to counter as-is. The tiamat interaction is because of.. well tiamat being who she is(broken af, needs a rework or something). You notice how you didn’t mention amber holdens or amber rahus or amber mizukis.

In the lily/beyontin example you should be banning beyontin permanently fr, and lily is generally not the prime threat to target, so she loses amber value the longer the fight goes on.

Lower ranks get abused because the players don’t know how to target or draft/counter draft. That’s just a time and effort type of thing.

[random zinc]

The biggest strength of amber comes with the fact that you can run 350 speed strive swift swift amber lily or plume and be completely fine

[drowsy sluice]

@oak plover are you guys just gonna let this shit happen and let these abusers run around or you gonna preach about using mio or heinrich to stop them which are unreliable af.
Or better yet want the whole playerbase to bruiser it out since i see a lot of bruiser good cleave and cc bad here

[random zinc]

Team above is food for tiamat with rahu banned

[drowsy sluice]

this is how i know these gacha players dont read

[random zinc]

know what? If holden and rahu were on artisan, that team would've been A LOT MORE SCARY, you know? This setup is literally an anti-cleave setup, sure. Dies to EVERYTHING else. Lol

Also, you aren't gonna question full jackal guard teams, are you? Coz, you know, these full debuff spam/cc kind of teams with 4-5 jackals can actually just kill you with jackal guards

sample: lilith, celince, ban protected heinrich, mio and plume

[rocky pecan]

ngl this is pure nahor or obol food 😭

[quaint burrow]

And this is why u are hardstuck. Fq doesnt heal tia while wounded. Wound stops amber from healing and giving stack. Block stops tia from getting stacks and transforming. There are plenty of counters

[sage locust]

Amber cleanse all debuff and healer can be fast enough and heal them.while on "amber state" to get out of 1 hp situation

[drifting idol]

one lily s3 and its poof

[lunar bane]

I wonder if its op ppl arent drafting 4 ambers

[cloud dew]

Get good

[cinder pelican]

Yes, she does I literally have a video of it

https://streamable.com/u8ujbr

[sage locust]

Wtf is that amber pop and heal,where tf is that first 10% come from

Wtf.....bruiser is fine and balance

[cinder pelican]

Fuqiu end of turn heal

[rough magnet]

Wait why are you so against players playing anti cleave. The player drafting like that and setting up like that means u dont continue to pick cleave. Why do you want ur cleave to work into that? Is that good game design? That player is willing to make the tradeoff to lose mirrors to beat cleavers.(even then he loses to hein mio cc cleave). Do you just want your cleave to have no counterplay except outspeed? Tell us what you want the cleave counterplay to be. Otherwise ur no different than what you claim bruisers want 0 counterplay. Amber is only problematic on tiamat

[cinder pelican]

This has nothing to do with anti cleave?

[noble thistle]

The biggest problem with amber it heals 2 times when the user dies and when he comes out of ice state while there is nothing about second healing in description it is needed to be fixed and i don't accept any exceptions like with rilmocha except BB description b

If you are going to heal unit 2 times remove the dmg reduction while in ice state it's either one or another having so much in it is way overboard

[gaunt meadow]

the second heal description can be found under the Iced state status effect. [Iced]: While active, increases DEF by 200% and grants immunity to Turn Meter-, buffs, and debuffs. When the Animus takes their turn to act, removes [Iced] and recovers 50% of their Max HP.

[quaint burrow]

thats normal tho ? wound got removed via amber and at end of the turn fq heals a unit. She died during her turn not after her turn.

[cinder pelican]

Did you not read what I posted the first time? Yes this I normal, I said Fuqiu can heal after transform EVEN WITH WOUND and you said “no”.

You: “you can wound you can block there’s plenty of counters, learn to play”

Me: “shows video of blocking and wounding and tia still transforming and getting healed after stasis”

You: “that’s normal!”

[oak robin]

This thread is a joke

[steel surge]

If they can nerf codex, i think amber nerf is fair too👍 👍

[noble thistle]

yeah i realised that after but still it's too much

[mortal dome]

Their fix tho will probably also fix the current amber bug tho which is going to annoy people more. Currently when entering iced state it will send to end of tm. It's not supposed to it's supposed to be half of tm. So either way it's going to be annoying if they do end up fixing that and then reducing a part of the iced passive

[oak plover]

pushing feedback this week now that team is back from holiday

[glacial echo]

this feedback is heavily biased and uninformed. i do not hold bias because ive built and used the counters to it.

i was thinking makoto, heinrich, mio, that one is pretty niche but cool @drifting idol

[drifting idol]

soo are we gonna get actual event omorrow

@glacial echo personally i love when my amber cd get resetted by lily i know im kinda dead

[oak plover]

dw lol i ignore a lot of stuff and focus on the strongest poitns and ideas usually when taking feedback

bc u cant lsiten to everyone at the end of the day

[drifting idol]

how about my opinion on the fact we need abyss dungeons uwu

idk what im saying anymore its 4 am i need to sleep

[oak plover]

lol

😱

[devout bloom]

Amber needs a rework, biased rhetoric aside. Its a shell that feels awful to use unless its on exactly Tiamat because of how it interacts, and it feels awful to playa aginst due to lack of counterplay

[sage locust]

Yea nice counter pick

[lime valve]

Not sure what's supposed to be shown here except some low damage counterattacks

[haughty pilot]

amber maid skin

[oak plover]

im using some of ur points dw @woven fox appreciate ur work

[cinder pelican]

I showed a video of this not working so….what exactly is uninformed? When the counter play doesn’t work very often and you need to jump through hoops to make it work, then the thing is imbalance? What of anything you mentioned stops tia from transforming in stasis?

The irony of all this is, it’s going to get a lot worse here soon when more and more people start building up ayaya.

[haughty pilot]

buff amber

[jovial roost]

Was looking around to see if this thread existed and surely it does.

I just witnessed its toxicity (outside of Amber Tiamat/Holden) through Amber Beyontin. I outsped a Massiah comp and killed the rest of the team except for Beyontin. She revives Massiah, and he gets 100% turn meter just to cleave.

I just 🤣’d my ass off because it’s so ridiculous.

I think the culprit for this shell is its 200% def boost effect. Makes literally anyone unkillable until they come out of it with a heal. Either remove the heal when they come out or remove the 200% def boost.

I don’t think that would gut it too hard.

[mortal dome]

well this could be way worse, the amber shell is only supposed to make the tm pushback to half of the units tm, rn it sends em to 0

[deft parrot]

Cleave is getting too strong to nerf this shell. The fact that you can get one shot with this thing with BB is crazy. I personally don’t abuse this shell but still

[jovial roost]

Even TM to 0, you can’t kill the damn thing lol

The TM is not what matters honestly, 50%, 0%, whatever, remove the 200% def boost + the heal out of iced, now we can talk. If I can’t kill you, and you’re still able to get a turn, then I just suck lol

[cinder pelican]

“It could be worse” is not a valid defense or counter to the points people are making.

Being able to kill the unit in stasis should be a valid option as you’re still wasting attacks / turns on this stasis target. It’s not an unreasonable ask.

Not getting effectively a full heal and turn is also a fair ask, there are ways to bring this shell inline with a balanced state with play and counter play but this weird defense of “it could be worse” or “git gud” without providing any counter points is extremely weird and childish.

[mortal dome]

I'm not saying in the sense that oh the shell is not broken. I'm saying the shell is currently bugged with amber reducing tm to 0 instead of 50% of the units tm. I agree it's an overturned shell. But in that same context is it fair if your tank units get one tapped by mass or get double ulted by mass like that's telling t2 players to git gud as well. What's going to probably happen is shells like amber or bloodbath get nerfed and cleave goes unchecked and then we are back to square one

[little geyser]

Am i tripping or is there just way more shells to counter cleave/cc but why isnt there much shells option that counters these? They should add more offensive shells for pvp, not just pve

[jovial roost]

Agreed they really need more offensive shells for cleave dps (swiftrush 12 set). As it is, people are relying on TM+ pushes and leaving their dps slow and on Keeneye or whatever Red colored set.

Currently, Jackal Guard seems to be the go to for cleave dps that don’t rely on TM+ pushing.

[steel surge]

Really? In mythic my p5 mass doesnt one shot any unit on BB lol. He does like 60-70% of their health.

380% crit dmg, 3.5k atk btw
Obv I dont expect him to one shot the whole team, but he doesnt even kill a single unit. And he is always pre-banned, yeli does practically sht damage as well and she just gets instantly countered and dies too

And the moment this happens, u see a healer on gigabyte+ strive / water rin + lighthouse / red chiaki + lighthouse move and just heal/shield the whole team back to full and its gg

People say pivot to cc. It has worked some times, but failed many other times, to pivot to cc, u need to accomodate one unit that strips and one that stun/freeze/ petrify. The moment enemy bans the stripper/stun the cc doesnt work anymore. Maybe then we change it to 2 stripper + 1 stun , then the enemy just bans the stun. So you are forced to go 2 stripper + 2 stun, at that point its not even cleave anymore. And aya/doki/ling will counter that. Nowadays even dps be resisting 300% eff acc units lol

Then maybe people will say when using amber/reaper steps/ lighthouse bruiser teams lose the bruiser mirror. Even if thats the case, the thing is while the bruiser teams lose to bruiser mirror but beat cleave and cc teams with these setups, the cc and cleave teams now lose to bruiser teams but also have to speed contest with other cc and cleave teams and can lose to them as well

Moreover, i just feel that bruisers have so much utility while dealing a crap load of dmg and being tanky as well. Aoe shield, aoe taunt, aoe strip, fully extend enemy skill cooldown, aoe immune to death for 1 turn etc.

[jovial roost]

I don’t think it’s right to a cleaver if I use all of my resource to kill you just you can go back with full HP and one-two tap me too (looking at you Tiamat).

That’s the problem, when someone goes into Iced state, as a cleaver, I’ve already used all of my resources to kill you the 1st time.

You come back with full hp 90% of the time and I have to try to kill you again using my weakass S1? Lol

[prime hinge]

to defeat Amber u need healblock, if healblock is applyed before amber triggers the hp stays at 1hp

[sage locust]

Beg to differ fuqu can heal you after amber cleanse

[jovial roost]

Broken summed it up pretty good in terms of using “wound”.

You have gigabyte/reaper step healers/cleansers that just comes in and cleanses.

[sage locust]

This is the vid...tia get in amber state with 10% hp out of nowhere @prime hinge

[rocky pecan]

Steal the fuq.

[prime hinge]

Probably due to Fuqiu, the healblock will get clensed due to amber but the hp stays at 1hp if no heal comes, if u can time it and no fuqiu is there u shall always be able to kill, but correct timing is always the key

[sage locust]

So you mean we open with fuqu? Let them pick tia+plume?

[prime hinge]

just wait for moonlitveil to run out then kill the amber user with healblock applyed

[rocky pecan]

Most cleave ban tia/ling whatever your units have the most trouble countering. So if you have fp, you pick plume.

Realistically, nobody maining bruisers are putting their best spd sets on a plume of all things, so even if she gets through, you should comfortably outspeed it.

[sage locust]

Then the healblock is gone first

[prime hinge]

no, when healblock is applyed first, then hp stays at 1hp, u just have to wait with wound till moonlitveil is run out, there is always a way to control when u kill units with certin debuffs applyed. Sometimes u just have to wait to use some abilitys

[rocky pecan]

You can still kill tia, if you hit someone else and let her shared damage be what kills her.

[jovial roost]

Also like, what squishy cleaver is going to wait two full turns for moonlight veil to disappear? My dps’s be dead by that point lol

[prime hinge]

Liliam lock hp of tiamat, then she has almost no dmg in Ultimate form

[jovial roost]

Tiamat won’t be the only bruiser there, Holden/Rahu is always accompanied, if you ban those, you’d have to deal with 3 healers.

Waste your S3 on Tiamat, Sania can revive her when she’s dead and she has full HP again.

I don’t know, I’d love to see a compilation where all of these techs work in a cleave setting.

[prime hinge]

also why u wanna pick cleave into a tank matchup, u know that Tank is ment to counter Cleave

[sage locust]

A cracked tia doesnt stop by liliam hp lock

[jovial roost]

Because that’s the style I invested lattices into lol

Also the triangle is not an end all be all. It’s possible for the losing comp to win, proof CC supposed to beat bruiser/tank down but currently, works sometimes, fails a lot of times.

[rocky pecan]

Imma be honest, if you’re letting them control the draft with triple healers, you aren’t building proper counters to it. Most cleavers have started transitioning to using a lot of last-pick ccs to pigeonhole healer and amber spam. then you ban tia or ling or aya or whatever. You outspeed them greatly and the dps will outdo their own cycling if drafted correctly.

If i go into a standard mass cleaver and they let me just pick a bunch of amber with no counterdrafting, obviously that’s gonna lose. But the ones that mix in heins and properly spd tuned lily and mio and even aya/fuq just destroy the strategy more times than not.

Tiamat still could do with dealing less damage, all that aside.

[jovial roost]

Eh I’m not a top player so I’ll admit to that fault. However, I do ban protect my Hein and ban Tiamat. I don’t use Massiah/Lily/Tsuki/Mio though because I don’t have them.

Hein doesn’t work all the time because of healers cutting in to cleanse + heal too.

I still lose to bruisers and win as well

[prime hinge]

u know that Totsumo is also an good answer to Tiamat stuff also amber stuff, he is also pritty cheap to build

[jovial roost]

I have him built but I can’t build him with enough dmg to one shot a tiamat from 100%-0% with the wound inflicted without losing speed. So that is an option I’m working on

[prime hinge]

also u shall think about build a Celince, to disable Passives like Ling clense, Sania Heal on s1, Tiamat stacks

[rocky pecan]

You won’t 1 shot her without atk ^ and def break. He’s more of a single target dps that gets your second dps over the hump to secure the win

[jovial roost]

Funny enough I do have Celince built as well hahaha but with Lingluo cutting in to apply immunity, it’s kind of hard to tune her to a plume/freya going first.

They basically trigger the cut, and then immunity goes up and Celince is a dead pick.

But anyways, getting off topic here so I’ll just leave it at that lol

[prime hinge]

well thats a you problem 😄

[deft parrot]

Oh buddy… lol. You’re obviously not drafting right or you doing something wrong. I just saw a Massiah one shot an entire team in one of this weekend’s tournament clips, and I’ve seen it plenty of times before or at least 2-3 units, or on the 2nd s3 clean up.. lol If your drafting Tsuki, Beyontin, Mari. How your not killing something is beyond me🤣

[steel surge]

Hmm idk im in mythic so i think im doing something right tho? My WR is 63% as well which isnt horrible

Beyontin is always banned so u usually dont get 2 s3s so im not sure where ur getting your 2 s3s and mass is usually prebanned anyways

Maybe in lower ranks they dont ban beyontin so u manage to get 2 s3s? And like ive said alr in mythic at least, my p5 mess doesnt one shot a bb unit (ive alr mentioned the stats)

[worldly anchor]

ive seen Massiahs one shot shot 1, 2, 3 or all enemies or sometimes none at all cus theres a million factors to consider (atk up/down, def up/down, is enemy full res% or full hp% modules, bb/no bb, etc.) so both of you can be right. Please share your matches if you could so we can figure it out

[lunar bane]

On top end mythic every bruiser is banning mass since he will oneshot your units i do it, and many others do it, if your mass isnt doing it its build diff

[drifting idol]

severe skill issue imagine not having 400% cd pepehands

[steel surge]

Atk 3.5k crit dmg 380 p5
No atk down
Atk buff from tsuki, freya nighrmare debuff too
I have so many replays showing it but im not gonna bother sending them here, afterall you guys always have something to say about it even when you dont make sense.

[safe nova]

ive had 45k bb red chiaki die to messias with just atk buff so this seems weird to me

[steel surge]

I couldnt find anything from summit since mess is always banned so i just took my most recent etherena battle. This is how most battles go, usually all 4 units survive

Imagine mess cant even kill, what do u expect rest of dps to do when mess is banned.
Also since this is etherena its the best case scenario, i can bring wtv set up i want

[safe nova]

i mean there might be a reason people in top 100 and above permaban messiah

[steel surge]

Yea idk whats ur rank but i am in top 300 in summit but i wont bother insulting you or making jokes abt it since i aint toxic

[drifting idol]

Oh no i like c+p your text and send them to top 100, 200 rta players

So guess who said that 🥺

[safe nova]

it might be that in lower ranks people build less res on the supports and more hp maybe?idk honestly

[steel surge]

The point is that all of this was in response to someone saying cleave is too strong so amber shldnt be nerfed.

If mess is pre-banned and even mess cant take out a single unit, is cleave too strong?

Imma end it with this. Its the same bunch of people spouting nonsense over and over again even when theres clearly laid out arguments

Its like talking to a tree, im not sure why im wasting my energy on this

[safe nova]

we clearly have our biases since we play opposites comp,but ye like genuinely adapt if your messiah isnt autowinning against anti oneshot comps,mix it up with cc,use wounds,reset ambers with lily,cleave can do it all while bruisers have to build for bruisers and cleaves,every bruiser account has their weak spots

[steel surge]

Read through this it rebuts wtv ur saying👍 👍

[drifting idol]

Blocking after putting clown emoji is wild pretty weird if youre claiming top 100-200 is so ignorant why bother clowning on me just go shit on em

Ig their tia is just garbage then or ur tia is just so god level even scarlet cant comprehend

Probally in Dictator family tree new acc as well

[safe nova]

clowning everyone who doesnt agree with you kinda demonstrates how dumb some cleavers can be holy,not everyone,but

[steel surge]

The dude made fun of me first btw (if u read a little higher), i didnt even say anything to them or insult them to get that reaction in the first place

And holy sht this person always wants the last say in everything, even bringing it to other chats. I wonder how much validation they need to feel secure. Anyways ill end here no need to reciprocate toxicity

[drifting idol]

how soft are u to get offended by a single statement? that wasnt even focusing at you 💀 i didnt even read ur text lmao. replied to his text coz it reminded me of my t1 friend thats tilted coz his cd is at 395% lmao

ure 100% dictator alt LMAO aint no way ure searching my chat history like dictator 💀

[worldly anchor]

then can you at least send it to me in game? im genuinely curious

edit: my discord name is same in game

[steel surge]

Theres a screenshot right above.

[worldly anchor]

you said you had tons of matches and i just wanna see them. I'm not trying to start something with you im too tired of that. I just wanna know how i can survive massiah

[steel surge]

Their bruisers are probably higher in prowess which is easier to do since rgb units only need 1/3 resources to increase prowess

Its literally just more tanky lol. These replays aint gonna show you how to survive messiah, they dont show the enemy stats

Yes im not sending them, i cant be bothered when ive already shown proof above

[worldly anchor]

so you're not sending them?

im not looking for proof of how right you are cus i already said you are. I'm looking for ways i can finally not pre ban Massiah. Just seeing shells and team comps are good enough to me. If you dont want to then whatever

[sage locust]

Really comment people mixing up with cc when its a fkin lingluo got picked there...its not even reaper step,and there is fuqu with bulwark....if they go cc then who to replace here? No tsuki? Or you take out beyontin so no double cleave? If its reaper step then your cc just gonna be useless?

[haughty pilot]

you run light house on aya and rin survive the mi into mass atk get push and taunt. its not as simple as thst since most people dont use light house anymore.

[cinder pelican]

Just to clarify for people here who think tia Amber is ez, most of us are talking about RTA which is a massive difference. In AI battles tia will s3 first no matter what into mizuki, in RTA this does NOT happen. Mizuki in general isn’t a super reliable counter pick for tia cause tia can just, not attack her till she transforms which at that point may be too late depending on the rest of the team.

Etherarena is not a mode that anybody should be attempting to balance around. You can hunt Tia’s all day.

[mortal dome]

honestly my best luck in beating tia is letting her transform and then countering with mizuki. Had a way higher success rate of killing her that way than anything else, i also steal sania away early so its only a ling so perpetual tia

[static hazel]

Mizuki, rahu, celince, tsutomu, liliam, heinrich, mio, any cc+strip are all good against her, I genuinely dont undestand this hate lmao, especially if they lock tiamat, sure she is very strong, but so are load of other shit, this is not the hill to die on. If you are struggling agianst tia this much you should probably build units to counter her idk.

[lime valve]

Not a single person in this entire thread has spoken in the context of etherena, a PvE farming mode, a single time, and it's very silly to assume anyone was

[cinder pelican]

It’s silly to assume they weren’t. Hence why I added a qualifier. All these statements assume the player just doesn’t do anything to protect their tia

[cinder pelican]

I showed a video of this exactly not working. You must not be playing in mythic or even master rta because simply picking one or two of these units doesn’t magically make you win. Tons of ways to counter this, none of these prevent transforming in stasis.

Are you saying removing the double heal OR the 200% def and removing the insta transform in stasis would be unbalanced

[mortal dome]

the insta transform is a tia bug, it has nothing to do with amber lol. And yes if you play properly rahu mizuki, or just mizuki herself is enough to deal with a tia, but you have to draft correctly. if your opponent is controlling your entire draft then you lost before the game even started

[lime valve]

It's not silly to assume they weren't if you're a normal human being with normal perceptive abilities but I appreciate that there's a lot of cognitive variation in servers like these so I'll drop it now✌️

[static hazel]

oh here it is, "you must not be master/mythic rta"

[mortal dome]

wonder if he is in master/mythic rta

[cinder pelican]

Yes I got there 2 days ago….by prebanning Tia

The play in mythic and master is way different.

I have yet to see a counter point to eliminating the 200% def or double heal. Unless you can actually provide a counter point - this git gud or “just pick Mizuki” is nonsense.

For the 80th time I have the actual videos to show how it’s not as simple as “pick Mizuki / tsutomo” and yet everyone just ignores it.

I know the counters I use the counters - they aren’t reliable or consistent and Amber tia specifically is OVERTUNED not “impossible”. Not everything is this binary aspect things can be dialed back and up.

There’s a reason tia Amber is the most common defense in most modes.

[glacial echo]

unfortunate time to not dispel i guess? that just happens

[sage locust]

He got killed on first turn,i mean if those 2 bramble not 100% to 0% him i dont think people gonna complain or if the killer is stacking attack stats...well this one just stack def/hp

He fkin dispell first like ffs see the turn meter,he want to dispell then stun but the dispell got killed by the after math and aya not even got dispelled

Like holy shit..like imagine its not aya but lingluo/doki instead with bulwark or the bruiser had bulwark

Then he need to dispell doesnt matter if he want or not

[glacial echo]

his obol didnt cc lmao, unfortunate

[sage locust]

https://tenor.com/view/fpe-gif-12904436974720717983

Everybody and their mom can p5 tia...its rgb @cold scaffold

[glacial echo]

it's literally rng bro, stop crying

[cold scaffold]

Is it not a P5 Tia?

[haughty pilot]

buff nell

[cold scaffold]

So you're upset because a full eff acc Hein got one tapped with bramble Tia which damage scales with HP?

[mortal dome]

so you complain when people say do this or do that to coutner it. Does anything we say even matter to you, you seem quite set in your way that u cant beat it. Show us some of your drafts and then we can help you coutner pick properly

[cold scaffold]

Even Holden defeats Tia with the right draft
https://youtu.be/kNKCvpuaxXc?t=21m34s

[cinder pelican]

Because this isn’t new or relevant comments. I’ve again already showed that this isn’t just an end all be all and then you repeat the same thing. You are the ones that keep repeating the same stuff without any points and are not listening at all to the points people are making. Maybe stop repeating the same stuff and address the comments people have made.

[mortal dome]

i even agreed with you that amber on tia is bugged, but thats more of tia interacting with amber than the shell. You could even play it with lily and reset amber and kill the tia that way, there are many ways to deal with that unit even bread up top beat it with a holden. Tsuktsomo and mizuki are counters yes, but you need the other units in your drafts to make that work. Same with a tia draft you need other support units to make her work. If you draft incorrectly or you cant deal with it thats on you. and yes its not just pick the counter and win. thats where draft knowledge and building your draft around stuff is important. if you are not doing that and then your complaining x y or z is overtuned then idk what to tell ya

[cinder pelican]

Cool, no counter points again. Nobody said there’s no counter play, please learn to read.

So we’re all in agreement to remove the insta transform and get rid of one of 200% def or double heal. Good talk.

I’m done with the conversation, you all have nothing to add and no points to counter the suggestion. XD has the data, the feedback suggestion was well thought out and all you’re doing is trolling at this point.

Sounds like you like abusing Tia and Amber in silver/plat in rta. Keep it up!

[mortal dome]

so how many times does one have to tell you that tias weird interactions with amber has nothing to do with the shell itself lol. And while i wont go as low to be on your level and say you cant read, im in masters rta, and any counters or suggestions are met with i cant git gud, or i cant use mizuki, or counters dont make tia go away. Figure out how to draft or dont but thats on you.

[molten condor]

T2 players coming out in force to gaslight the community

[lime valve]

Why do midwits act like bruiser players don't also have to deal with Tias first they don't have to equip gear to automatically beat cleave, now they magically erase enemy Tias...

[jovial roost]

Nah we cleavers just preban Tia and now we have to deal with Amber Beyontin -> Massiah

[rocky pecan]

Genuine question: why do yall take your preferred playstyle as some personality trait, then put everyone else into boxes?

You know the game isn’t bruiser players vs everyone else, right?

Just participate in the discussion without the weird-ass typecasting 😭

[molten condor]

Why do nowits block and run like little girls at the slightest sign of danger to their egos

[wise escarp]

he blocked me too

[lime valve]

If only all my fans were beautiful women instead of these spuds 😮‍💨

[drifting idol]

you have fans!?

[lime valve]

Seems so

[cinder pelican]

Any tia cucks out there wanna explain this one?

https://streamable.com/27xys5

[rocky pecan]

She got moonveil hp when you hit holden with yeli followup, she gets turn because she transformed and was about to recover the turn.

[cinder pelican]

Moonlit veil wasn’t up try again

[rocky pecan]

if at 415 she gets 10% hp when transforming. My bad, no veil just her regular transforming hp gain, then she got amber after it

[stable fossil]

so even heal cut doesnt counter tia amber ??
what to do now ??

[cinder pelican]

Uhh that’s not a thing

[rocky pecan]

It does, it’s just looking at it they had several waves of damage which gave tia enough stacks to get dragon at her death.

@cinder pelican

[cinder pelican]

You are way new to this discussion it seems.

Transforming is irrelevant and not part of this point. She shouldn’t have had any hp after dying and triggering Amber cause of wound, yet she did due to a bug or bullshit.

[rocky pecan]

Ok, so you asked why she got the hp and where, and I showed you why it happened. Whether it is balanced/fair whatever i didn’t comment on.

You overkilled her so she got enough stacks to transform but she went into iced state first, ice state clears the wound, she goes into ultimate, while assuming ultimate she recovers a turn and gains 10% hp. when you recover a turn in amber you gain hp.

That’s the order of which it happened.

[lime valve]

I think by "explain" he might have meant more "defend" although nobody would defend that so I'm not sure what's wrong with him mentally

[cinder pelican]

She has wound, she’s not supposed to gain hp with wound, even with transform.

[chilly oxide]

bro you can see from the video tiamat heal from amber is +0

your wound debuff is working, after that she enter iced state clear all debuff recover 10% her HP from skill 1, then gain turn recover her HP from ember.
Its your fault to target holden, if your yelli follow up atk targeting tiamat she would die without able to recover her HP

[cinder pelican]

I literally do this all the time this has never happened, either she transformed before stasis in which wound prevents the heal or she was in stasis before hitting the 8 stacks in which the stacks are cleared and she doesn’t transform. Can’t be both.

[lime valve]

I don't really think the mechanical nuances are all that relevant, since in the first place the overkill transformation out of death just shouldn't happen

[ionic gust]

What are you so confused about?

1. Heal block makes amber heal 0
   2.tiamat is 1 hp as amber procs, amber proceeds to cleanse all debuffs as it does and tiamat transforms because she procs her form
2. as she is no longer debuffed from healblock that was cleansed, her 10% hp passive and 50% hp passive from end of amber procs and shes back to 60% hp and taking a turn, no bugs that i see

[cinder pelican]

….she can’t cleanse all debuffs AND BUFFS and transform.

[ionic gust]

Why not exactly? Its the entire reason the whole amber transform thing works in the first place
tansform always happens after amber is procced so it will always cleanse everything before doing the transform, pretty self explanatory

You can always argue that it should not work the way it does but this is just how it is currently, works as intended (if it was intended by the devs, who knows)

[cinder pelican]

You realize if targeted Tia it wouldn’t have killed her right?

[chilly oxide]

If your yeli atk is targeting tiamat, she only recover 10% HP and will die by yeli follow up atk

[ionic gust]

It would have, tiamat cant just skip the turn on yeli that is currently attacking, all yeli had to do was kill a 10% hp tiamat with 1 auto.
No flame but you sound so sure of yourself on everything but have no idea how things work, ask questions next time and think with logic instead of assuming things. This is why the devs dont wanna listen to anything the people in this discord say

[cinder pelican]

So she did 6300 on Holden with def down and plume stacks , you think she’d do 4K on tia with 200% def up and no debuffs? Answer is no

Sounds like you all need to play pvp more

[ionic gust]

So yeli just does not have a passive with chance for extra arrows even if it fails to kill? your yeli is very poorly build it it cant kill that and you still had a very high chance of getting an extra arrow regardless, you really cant be wrong about anything can you
Also it was an arrow with rev on it, that alone would deal enough dmg to kill 10% hp pretty much unless that for some reason does not work on amber, never tested if it did but i dont see a reason it wouldn't

[lime valve]

Do you all have a clear idea of what you're arguing for or why regarding this stupid clip lmao. What are your goals

Cause that shit sucks and shouldn't happen, do people not agree? Does the reason why it happened matter?

[craggy surge]

i just hope they just remove the interaction between amber and tia because doesn't make any sense she gets to interact after dying

[rocky pecan]

EVERYONE gets to interact with amber after dying. She just gets the most benefit out of it.

[craggy surge]

nono i get it that u interact after getting out of the amber effect but tia gets transformation when going into ice state, wich shouldn't happen

[rocky pecan]

no, i mean everything does.
Rahu gains wrath, strive works while in amber state, other passives do as well. It’s just that she specifically just gets the hp benefit. It’s like a weird spaghetti of being in the fight but out of it

[hot viper]

That's the point, it wouldn't be fair if they changed only tiamat interaction since everyone benefits from it

[rocky pecan]

Solution is just stop her from getting an insta-turn in dragon mami form. I think the counter snipe dps can be tolerable without the spam insta-nuke.

[gentle tundra]

game is already super cancer with spd meta and you want to remove one of the ways to deal with it? lmao

[haughty pilot]

buff amber - 100% heal and can reduce amber cooldown

[steel surge]

Theres so many cutting mechanics (lighthouse, strive, gigabyte, plume, reaper steps) i dont understand where ur coming from, when 240 unit can move right after 360 unit move lol

And the meta aint speed when majority of teams on the leaderboard (teams with tiamat,rahu, healers) are using bloodbath

[drifting idol]

Imagine not having bb tiamat 280 speed 💅

[dreamy parcel]

id love if they make the unit in the amber state only immune to hard cc but let every other debuff hit

[lofty marsh]

now this guy is cooking

[cinder pelican]

This makes no sense, how is anything begin discussed impact a supposed “spd meta”.

[cinder pelican]

Yea I just tested this this is wrong. Rahu loses all his stacks and doesn’t gain any stacks when in amber form.

[gentle tundra]

this entire thread is about nerfing amber which is one of the ways to counter spd meta, what?

[cinder pelican]

How do the suggestions impact that? Do you rely on insta transform tia to counter “spd meta”? What even is “spd meta”? Do you mean cleave?

[mortal dome]

This thread isnt about you complaining about tias interaction with amber too. But you keep talking about it.

[cinder pelican]

Literally in the OP’s post, but you know reading is hard.

[mortal dome]

op's post is saying amber does too much in the iced state, him being a cleaver is an addition in this matter, you on the other hand have been told numerous times about tia's interaction with amber, but you keep bringing it up every chance you get. So i dont know if how understanding the game mechanic is broken is hard but here we are. Amber is not the problem in tia's case, its how her passives interact with her. Amber as a shell being very broken is a different matter entirely

[cinder pelican]

I don’t think you’re reading the comments like at all and just want to be argumentative.

Also, who says it’s broken or a bug? Did XD say that? If not, saying hey this interaction is unfair please change it in the feedback section of their discord, you know like they asked us to do, seems pretty on par.

YOU are the one that seems to have an issue with the topic, all you’re doing is responding to, mostly me, without providing literally any feedback. You’re effectively a troll who for some reason has nothing better to do than make useless comments.

Blocking you now, feel free to say more useless shit or you know - provide any sort of constructive feedback. Bye.

[oak robin]

https://tenor.com/view/deimos-r6-siege-gif-6204485797971098070

[lofty marsh]

aight I've come around. Changed my mind.
Amber's counters are way too specific.
Tiamat Amber interaction should not exist, because it removes all possible downsides of Amber.
You can turn push the iced state and heal them.

And the biggest reason Amber needs to be adjusted is the fact that it counters BOTH cleave and control. Imo it should really only work against cleave, not control (like lighthouse).

It's doing too many things. It fulfils too many roles.

[velvet bone]

almost everyone is running amber on at least 1 support unit now like lily/doki/plume

[lofty marsh]

imo amber on those units isn't the issue. It's amber on Tiamat and other actual threats

[spiral kite]

Dang. Everytime we find a good combo you guys gonna nerf it.

How bout XD builds new content and releases counter...... nevermind. You're right. Nerf it

[drifting idol]

Dammit what if i build acc on lily and s3

[velvet bone]

and beyontin

[spiral kite]

Time to start building i guess