Balance Patch Criticism

[humble iris]

Then you ban the tsuki???? If we talking random pedantic responses

[toxic lagoon]

ur also gambling WHICH unit is fastest. theres also very limitd openers, if they know ur turn 1, they preban 1, u preban 1, fp gets 1 opener, 2nd pick gets 2 openers 😂 now what game has deevolved into nonsense then u go into ur game, find out hes faster, note it down, leave the game, then he changes whoever is fastest unit next time 😂 that doesn't sound fun. And what if ur just compeltely slower on every unit. you just dont roll enough speed how do you play if eveyrone is just faster than u. You can just be stuck if ur peak speed is 320 not to mention that bulwark freya build? requires the perfect matrix comboes some people have been looking for ages to get 😂. Go play rn its full of turn 1 players, if ur lucky u get to outspeed sure its not a hassle to paly turn 1 mirrors. Go equip 320 max speed and paly turn 1 mirrors tell me u have fun.

[dark harness]

Ok reading through everything you've wrote. You basically said that it's better to climb bruiser because you get outsped by other turn 1s and then proceed to say everyone's playing bruiser. The only thing I can draw from this is that you are getting outsped by turn 2 players

[humble iris]

Theres 4 really good openers, freya Lilly tsuki mio, you can also build plume and beyo fast as supports/openers, plenty of options, if your opponent starts tsuki or lilly, counter with freya plume or any other of the 3, you now have the turn meter fuckery there's plenty of choice for turn 1 mirrors homie its not just "this guy outspeeds me by 1 I lose" like in season 0

I never said nerf anything, just unnerf codex, codex nerf feels like ass, and every other fing support shell can only use swiftsmite instead of both smite and raid

[versed sage]

Nerf codex even more now,who tf put 2min slowmode in here...

[fading bison]

i would love if they just publish winrate (when picked and when not banned), pickrate and preban rate of all characters at the end of a week or biweekly
maybe a 2nd list for mythic as well

[humble iris]

Im all for this

[rapid basin]

usually that's the purview of fan tools but i don't think this game will ever get those

we don't even get snippets of balance logic in patch notes, which i guess is the norm for gachas but i'm used to stuff like marvel snap where they clearly explain their thought processes and you can at least understand what the fuck they're trying to do

[humble iris]

Thats a good point why this feels so shit, we never have any idea wtf they're doing or why they're doing it, 0 communication, 0 explanation, just "codex nerf" then radio silence, "have fun next 2 months see you next balance patch"

[subtle adder]

And then they buff holden and rahu last season. Even the cm says it was silly. Then next season tia gets fixed to do more damage and rahu still untouched

[rapid basin]

Like check this shit out, the company has gone to hell and all but killed the game, but their balance team is still trying their hardest https://marvelsnap.com/balance-updates-september-25-2025/

[blazing sapphire]

Maybe not you but definitely some. Oh man marvel snap is a can of worms I played when tech card soup was basically the entire game and it felt so unfun lol. Yugioh is having that issue right now where it’s just tech cards(handtraps) and you cannot(floodgates) that type of stuff hurts more than helps in the long run at least and this community seems to be going towards the same route but it is what it is. Hope everyone has a good day.

[humble iris]

Yea like I dont even care if bruisers are at the top of the meta, like thats cool all my homies play turn 2 im happy they chillin, but they keep buffing turn 2 directly and indirectly, giving new shells, buffing shells, while also nerfing everything else and nerfing rev and codex, its hard as shit to play non bruiser atm devs what we doin here

[tawny canopy]

Nerf to rev was such a knee jerk reaction I'm assuming it's the same for codex. Ppl were salty about rev but that's because almost no one had access to bb. Now everyone does and it's kinda ass

[blazing sapphire]

Yea think I said before rahu and Tia can for sure catch some nerfs. Tia s1 non transformed is just too much I play t2 and I just dislike rahu the rng that comes with him and just the dmg lol. The codex unnerf im down with cause it helps t2 And I haven’t got to experience too much reaper cause I haven’t gotten it so wouldn’t know much plus ultchad cleave ccs me regardless he’s also been farming others with cc cleave so to me it’s playable but both nahor and hiz were on codex.

[inland mortar]

im fast myself and beat other in speed aswell or i wouldnt end up high in ranking. My point still stands its easier to climb with bruiser you dont need rng on gear or even be crafty in drafting you slap your shitty bruiser in slap in 3 healers and you good to go. And dont start telling me you need brain to play bruiser that tourney proofed that t2 simply pick your comp without thinking much. Also a bigger wallet has bigger impact on those bruiser comps compared to cleave/cc which rely more on rng luck gear.

[delicate knot]

Maybe we need a shell that stun 25% whenever u attack to buff cc iykyk

[blazing sapphire]

Despair gaming if so fuck it put vio in the game

[rapid basin]

Yeah it's been in a bad place for a long time, I'm 2 years gone now. But their comms are top tier, and their version of #ask-staff has historically had actual staff members answering actual questions with substantive information instead of the nonsense we get from HQ (not counting Chris)

[blazing sapphire]

Very true. I think that bridge also got burned by ccs when the game had a issue and instead of coming to the devs they instantly uploaded videos instead and this same thing was said by another cc that was close to the devs and had that same agreement with them. So I don’t know who is more to blame atp.

[rapid basin]

I think the opening salvo was the insane changes before launch, and I distinctly remember people like Sean and Sei posting measured content saying they were reaching out for clarification and then being ignored, so I'm going to place blame squarely on XD

[drifting thistle]

Don't worry guys next season lighthouse is on chopping block

[blazing sapphire]

OHH yea that’s what it was. People were mad that u couldn’t shadow sania aurora, I’m still iffy just cause of the information that I’ve been told. Yea them making pve a bit harder was kinda annoying ngl. I do think some of the drama tho way overblown. Like we are all grown bro it cannot be that deep to where we think we will be pve stuck for a year 😭 that’s just how I saw it. Still annoying and they should’ve told us.

[tawny canopy]

And the terra buffs. Rip lian

[dark harness]

Liliam counters this strat

[summer geyser]

most of cc cleaver here are like 200/220%accu, coinfliping every match against 300+ res eff ling/doki or whatever characters build on and complaining about getting sometime resists.
(if i'm wrong show me your 300%accu hein/mia/mio/obol/mari/Lilith..etc ).

[inland mortar]

im pretty sure everyone got at least 260+ with insight if they main cc. Oh yeah all my codex with red speed/insight got hit aswell. Worth farming 2 month

[blazing sapphire]

Did they tho? If ur playing turn 1 what does it like do

[inland mortar]

doesnt happen often tbf but if a fight get dragged out by op as shells like amber when you dont have wounds, Now that shel is not op at all and dont need a nerf

[blazing sapphire]

Oh no I fkin hate Amber LMAO very much down for the entire shell to just get reworked entirely. But yea in that sense it can be bad but that codex nerf hurt my tanky doki I feel like way worse since all my fights are dragged out.

[glossy gale]

Theres a lot of things wrong with the game balance-wise. Im down for T1 to get a shift upwards in power level even if it means losing some of the more toxic options currently available

[maiden forge]

nah rev absolutely does too much dps on supports, i’m not gonna hold you. They can revert it a little, but you all really wanna go back to lighthouse spam meta on top of all the new cleanse and anti-cleave stuff we’re getting. Maybe kokardi is omega broken and boosts cleave but idk

[maiden forge]

You do need good gear to climb tbh. a crappy bruiser build is pretty easy to smack up ngl. Like i have to have pretty efficient modules to compete in bruiser mirrors the higher i go, and the bigger need for lattices and maxed prowess.

It’s easier than cleave and cc because you can differentiate substats, but those subs still need to be quite efficient.

[quick mauve]

This is so true 100% sure that many of them refuse to go focus on their second shell passive because they opt it for SPD leading them to not having enough accuracy to cc 300eff res healers
T2 has to build counter but they probably want to use their one cc units for every scenario
Nobody has cooked up anything with sword vii yet

[tawny canopy]

Kock will save cleave trust

[rapid basin]

I hope that the cock may fire off every 2 actions rather than every 2 active turns, similar to Lily gaining turn meter off bramble, which would be really nice, but I don't see what he'll do for cleave

[inland mortar]

stop cap everyone at the top has best gear/shells and rolls be it t2 or t1. that tourney ruind all your pro arguments for t2 anyway. If it is or was like those top ranked player said that cc/cleave cant be beat as t2 we would have seen alot more stuff than only rahu/tia jerk offs.

[tranquil sparrow]

I’ll let you know how sword 7 works in 4 months when it gets nurfed for daring to compete against bruisers

[humble iris]

How many would you like to see homie? All these resources farming/rolling in codexs

[quick mauve]

Second shell passive is not on focus

[tranquil sparrow]

Bruisers go for the res on 2?

[inland mortar]

crazy

[delicate knot]

All that to get 1 tap by counter atk

[maiden forge]

spd, crit, cd, acc. depends on the bruiser

[humble iris]

Still 270-290% each bud

[static blaze]

@tranquil sparrow

[tranquil sparrow]

Oh on reaper. Makes more sense

[inland mortar]

calm is shit on reaper i say XD you res multi hits anyway

[summer geyser]

then how ur struggling against T2 match up ?

[static blaze]

i would go for 400% if i could

[humble iris]

They just nerfed the codexs im using? My entire thread is petitioning for it to be unnerfed, not nerf bruisers or anti cc lol, plus just look at flights reaper shell he just linked, that shit pushes turn meter even when the animus is ccd, which is ridiculous

[tranquil sparrow]

It’s not mine but yeah that’s disgusting lol

[toxic lagoon]

wheres ur timeweave set 😂 but also wheres hizuki nahor

[humble iris]

On the followup slowpokes

[toxic lagoon]

this slower and less eff acc than my hizuki 😂

[tranquil sparrow]

It’s on a timeweave swift

[humble iris]

Bros hizuki is faster then my 11th fastest unit, rip me

[toxic lagoon]

it doesnt push tm when freeze so nahor is menace

[dapper hamlet]

The point is codex nerf made him forced to adjust to halloween/timeweave and therefore might lose some stat as well.

[inland mortar]

just slap bb on nahor and turn him into t2 like you do with any unit that is a problem for t2. Mass slap law on bb or even amber, yeli the same, liliam the same, plume bb jackal. CC a problem? slap bb on problem solved

[maiden forge]

that happens for all meta shifts tbh. It isn’t that egregious that you can’t use codex, but you can’t spam it.

I’m ngl i thought it was absurd that there is a shell that just lets you freely spam your ultimate skill, seemed like a balancing nightmare. Most other op mechanics have some drawback, this is just codex’s.

[static blaze]

Kinda surprised no one’s calling for an Aya nerf already. Do CC players not see her as a threat? Just asking, no hate or anything

[delicate knot]

Give it a week

we need a SSR Marvel with dmg output

[static blaze]

I was thinking about a max S2, full RES Strive Reaper with double Swift seems like a CC destroyer

[inland mortar]

only 3 ppl play cc after the patch. DOnt worry the dude will save cleave at least. If he doesnt turn into the next t2 unit on bb which probally will happen at this point.

[delicate knot]

Sadly CC is the most demanding in skill up, gear, perfect passive roll and unit so its just not worth picking up for most people.

Bruiser is simply just a more affordable and adaptable playstyle.

Cc players will forever live in hatred

[humble iris]

Oh no we totally fucked even worse, her on reaper = gg wp, but like gimme back my codexs at least lol

[dapper hamlet]

Then they should have done further testing and not nerf it after people spent months and tons of resources to farm those. You can't just, "Oopsie. Look like we made a mistake." and wasted someone's time and resources, especially when it involves real money.

Also, let's not use meta shift term when the meta isn't shifting at all. Top players were still bruisers before the nerf (check top rta and the tournament stream) and top players are still bruisers even after the nerf, with CC got even more kicked to the ground with the changes and soon with the new green unit and cleave is forever stuck with pre-banned Massiah.

[quick mauve]

I got strive BB Evo as my first reaper shell today now my ling is 100% a pick against cc useless in brusier vs brusier match up tho

[humble iris]

Im still trying lol, winrates down like 20% from last patch already, its rough out here

[humble iris]

THIS BRO, I got 5 unused rev shells from season 0, and 7 fkin codex shells now, like stop nerfing shells to avoid nerfing units just so you dont have to give us a reset event, its fucking bullshit

[delicate knot]

Without reset event, at least some of u guys will still be forced to be play cleave n cc to keep the meta "diverse"

[inland mortar]

they will never ever nerf a ssr. They rather release new units that are solutions to the current problems which than create new problems while not fixing the old problems. And locking new kits from old units behind lattice is like next lvl low.

[humble iris]

Doesn't matter who they release when rahu is dropping 15k+ s1 followups

[maiden forge]

no meta has shifted for sure. Just because it’s still bruiser doesnt mean sets, builds, pick patterns, and counter builds haven’t changed. They have. And are continuing to change.

Like I said earlier, tourneys are almost always going to be bruiser-dominated, as top ranks are. Across all these pvp gachas, it’s the strategy that best rewards gear depth, skillups (prowess) and can counter the most unknown circumstances of the opponent.

That’s just how these games go. Sometimes you heavily invest into something, just to be nerfed later. Can’t put all your eggs in one basket tbh. I’m spamming amber now, but eventually it’ll be directly or indirectly nerfed by some units, then i’ll be agitated for 2 weeks until i farm new stuff up again. Eventually it’ll roll back to amber meta, codex meta, rev meta, whatever

[tranquil sparrow]

I thought cc cleave was supposed to easily cleave last patch though

[maiden forge]

It does, but hard to get the draft out. they need more aoe defs and single target snipers

[inland mortar]

someone tell that to the top ranked players fast if they would have knew that cleave/cc was op that tourney would look so diffrent

[tranquil sparrow]

Then it’s not easy then is it?

[toxic lagoon]

damn i might be blind ig (it continues more and more as u scroll)

[maiden forge]

Well i mean, i never said it was lmao, you responded to me with another man’s words 😭

[tranquil sparrow]

Must have missed the tourney where it was all bruisers

[toxic lagoon]

In a tourney setting, the palyers chose to be safe, even if they can cleave its just more risky. Theres money on the line u cant blame them 😂 but i think there was like 3 players that could potentially cleave

[maiden forge]

Tourney ≠ regular play. Tourneys will always boil down to “what is the most safe thing i can do with the least risk”. Even if cc,cleave were equal or better to bruiser, tourney will still primarily be bruiser.

You can argue about bruiser domimance in mid and higher rank, but tourneys really dont translate as far.

[tranquil sparrow]

But how is it safe if it’s so easy to cleave them?

Also I know @maiden forge just find it funny how bruisers acting like they are playing with a handicap

[rapid basin]

I am playing with a handicap (my mind)

[toxic lagoon]

No one said its easy 😂 except massiah. which again in a tourney will be risky. The top players trust their turn 2 units more.

[maiden forge]

Some people bugging. Bruisers are strong af because of lack of unit diversity. For better or worse, they gotta drop like 10 more units before things naturally settle and balance out imo.

Let the devs slowly cook because all their kneejerk reactions to appease the community has always lead to some dumbass choice. (Looking at you, Liliam and rev nerf)

[humble iris]

They can cook all they want, until then leave codex alone till the dust settles

[dark harness]

Rob was saying in the RTA discord that he should have just cleaved bread but got nervous about gear quality and just auto piloted to his comfort picks

[austere vine]

bread got so lucky against kekker in the 3rd game of that tournament, that rahu with 12 stacks was clearly paid to sabotage

[tranquil sparrow]

Bro should trust in the process

[dark harness]

I mean massiah wasn't banned hardly any of the games and the only 3 people that actually have good massiahs didn't pick them

The only people that picked massiah were people I've never seen use massiah and it showed when they didn't do hardly any damage

[rapid basin]

the cleaver cabal wanted to highlight t2 to force a tia nerf for their own benefit. it's all a conspiracy (to be clear i am shitposting and Shotty isn't lying)

[dark harness]

T2 deserves some nerfs but they won't nerf any SSRs as they've shown in the last patch. They only bug fix nerfed sania and they only nerfed kazuyo because those were the 2 strongest SR characters. No nerfs to rahu, tia, massiah, plume, rtc

[rapid basin]

I really wish they had the nads to take you up on your 1 reset/szn free nerf and buff regime idea

[dark harness]

They won't sadly I've pushed for it behind the scenes in the discord in feedbacks etc

[maiden forge]

I wish they never promised the reset thing and just nerfed as they needed.

At the end of the day, resets help f2p but really dont incentivize you to spend, after a while you’d just be able to freely max any meta-dominant unit, especially with how easy it is to get summons and banner isnt 50/50

[dark harness]

That's why it would only be 1 reset per RTA season. Too many characters come out to reset and it would be at the end so you can't swap mid season to get ahead

[inland mortar]

they should go back to 2 weeks banner time 1 week more or less wont fix lattice issue anyway. I rather get more options out faster

[blazing sapphire]

lol nah that’s mad old now we have cards that stop you from adding from deck entirely including drawing 🤣 it’s a form of control

Oh well then makes sense, if u ever look into it again they made a new format cause the control was killing the game

[inland mortar]

@summer geysernice fight that shel is not broken at all XD

[summer geyser]

gg! he feat against cc cleave but weak vs the rest but yeah kinda good shell rn

[jolly ember]

i wonder why we are not even getting taht rn

[rapid basin]

They have no big revenue source other than lattice packs and they're terrified of selling even fewer than they must be already

[maiden forge]

ngl game is hella f2p friendly. I get they gotta make money via lattices, but they should sell them for cheaper, and sell lat shards in a daily pack. $3 or something

[gloomy breach]

i can hear your voice saying "despair stun"

[nimble sonnet]

Good thing they didn't have a glitch that let you farm infinite lattice

[wheat lynx]

u have to remember that a lot of this is because that was the old meta and it is what people have spent time building gear for. The balance patch just came around and it won't be an instant pivot to anything. It'll take time to theorycraft and experiment

I get where ur coming from but

u can claim the balancing team or my comments are out of touch if youd like but I'd argue there's also another side of the coin where if u expect everything to instantly shift you may be looking at things one dimensionally

[wheat lynx]

this is such a wide meta genuinely

u and seus covered it well

[dapper hamlet]

But what's your point though? I never said anything about meta shift is about to happen or wanting it to happen. It's not gonna happen. The previous meta was and is currently still bruisers and they got affected the least by the balance patch which pretty much guarantees that nothing would change because the status quo didn't get changed.

Also, we were talking about the codex nerf and no compensation is given to those who got their account ruined because of the nerf.

There will always be another side of the coin. The problem is, they choose to hear from that other side more often, rather than showing neutrality and treat everyone equally.

[wheat lynx]

how can you claim it's not going to happen when it just came out

people spent a ton of time building gear for the strategy

so they need more time to build and experiment with new ones

"was and still is" as the claim that it's not going to happen when it literally just came out just doesn't work man

and there is neutrality

there are no agendas internally for balancing

they just want it to feel good

unfortunately it takes time to reinvest and try other strategies and that's the hardest part

they know that too but they still have to balance properly regardless or else itl be an endless cycle of terrible feeling games and drafting

a lot of top rta players have their own agendas and ideas. They try to have an unbiased approach and don't take every single idea that comes from top rta players either

they test and work hard to figure out what will work with continued play best

[subtle adder]

Do you think Tiamat or rahu should have received changes this patch ?

[wheat lynx]

I'm aware of their strength yes

but

[brittle gust]

then at the end they go "we buff Holden here" and raise his counterattack rate to 100

[wheat lynx]

I'm not sure how the meta will fully pan out yet

so I can't say that preemptively

[delicate escarp]

I am personally of the opinion that the game is really fun right now, lots of things to explore, meta hasnt been figured out at all. Tiamat is looking a bit too strong but rahu seems fine right now

[toxic lagoon]

If rahu is bugged and then get bug fixed to do mroe damage.... he not fine anymore if the bug thing is real

[subtle adder]

tiamat already bug fixed to do more damage so why not rahu as well

[brittle gust]

im of the opinion that the meta would be less stale if people were better able to invest in a standard draft rather than hyperfocus on one specific style over another. but with the current lattice economy youre kind of forced to do just that

[wheat lynx]

yeah agreed

[brittle gust]

i feel like im still at the point where putting more lattices into turn 2 units is more beneficial because latticing one turn 1 unit up doesnt really do anything for me if i dont have a complement of synergistic units to go along with it

[delicate escarp]

Cleave is a bit unfortunate right now as there are not enough good dpsers, yeli is really mediocre and batsby is only good in cc cleave. Liliam is good but requires very heavy investment. And massiah is too good. So people always ban massiah, deal with the rest that isnt nearly as good and then yeah. If you don't have the P5 cleave units with very good gear right now then it's not very good. I would love to see another cleave unit released, a nerf to mass, and a buff to some of the others. Cc cleave is looking solid right now but the problem with cleave on ladder will always be that u have to speed contest all the other turn 1 players, so it's way harder to climb with than t2. I believe when ppl have really good stuff for cleave right now, its pretty solid, but the majority just dont. Cleave just needs more options right now, more dpsers, more cool supporters. Just tune down mass a little, buff the rest and release a bunch of cool t1 units.

[maiden forge]

Tbf, even within that, only bruiser mains seem willing to steal unorthodox drafts, idk what it is about most cc/cleave players but they absolutely refuse to use animus that aren’t hard-coded to their strategy.

Like nobody tries stealing stuff which is weird af to me

[wheat lynx]

it's gonna be tough for sure but thanks for this feedback and sharing your thoughts here

[toxic lagoon]

yes I tried cc cleave and I just got smacked down by t1 players. I had little to no problems vs turn 2 players palying cc cleave. Cc cleave forces ur stripper to be fastest so speeds are like 330 stripper 320 ~310 cc. then i just gave up and climbed with t2 bc i dont have to flip t1 mirrors.

[wheat lynx]

jack has alr told me the team never wants a t1 speedfest to dominate and they want somewhere between t1 and t2 balanced as they know how other games can be

so it's really tough to get that right

I pray for the design and balancing teams lol

[glossy gale]

Im that top guy in the images you were looking at. I feel like cleave is in a very awkward position due to lack of roster depth compared to bruiser players (not enough fast openers at 125+ base speed and not enough VIABLE aggro dps). I also feel like there are certain balance outliers that can make drafting feel fairly hopeless in certain scenarios, such as the interaction between Tiamat and Amber being so strong. I do hope that feedback can be taken from players with a wider variety of playstyles in the future so that the PVP in this game can be more balanced and fun in the future.

[wheat lynx]

yeah good points about the speed and viable dps

[delicate escarp]

I can vouch for chad, I believe he is the best cleaver right now. Roster depth in cleave is the biggest problem overall id say. Also tiamat being tuned down would help a good amount, she is too good into both t2 mirros and cleave.

[wheat lynx]

have been seeing that shared here and there

[glossy gale]

I am a proponent of T1 and T2 both being balanced as I also agree that a T1 only meta can become extremely toxic. However, I personally feel that T2 has quite an advantage at the moment due to having more flexible drafts and access to more effective counters

[wheat lynx]

yeah

feels like the pool just needs a little bit more expansion

or adjustments like u and bread said

sweet spot is somewhere between all of those things

but agreed t2 has the draft advantage rn

and that's why it's kinda the core currently

[delicate escarp]

I fully agree with chad, this balance patch added a ton of cool things but barely any of it ended up in the hands of cleave specifically. so t2 just got tons of more tools, and thats really cool as it makes the t2 playstyle way more varied and less onedimensional. But what was needed was more cleave options aswell.

[wheat lynx]

there's still a lot of room for the meta right now to develop which will be interesting, but I'm curious how these things will affect it

yeah

exactly

I'll talk with jack ab it this week among other topics

appreciate u guys coming in here ik it's a hectic environment but

[brittle gust]

more roster depth would definitely help, i didnt have Mio & Heinrich at the start of the game and just went "guess im not playing turn 1 then" lol

[glossy gale]

And Im looking at the 2 new character releases. Kokardi on paper looks to not have the numbers to be able to be tooled into aggro comps and Mizusumi Aya is a great design for a character, but her only having 120 base speed is extremely hindering. If Aya had around 124-125 base speed she would add another opener option for T1 which gives a bit of breathing room when drafting

[wheat lynx]

mhm person who I cannot name was talking to me about that with the new characters before they quit

[toxic lagoon]

The need for openers is more so for t1 mirrors tho right, so its not a preban tsuki preban lily and then like tehres 2 untis left 😂

[wheat lynx]

so ill mention it to the team

now that im seeing more comments ab it

[delicate escarp]

I saw this thread, and I think this patch was super good for fun of the game, but it really lacked in helping cleave and I fully believe its needed as a playstyle for the game to be fun overall. A lot of the players in the cup actually have fairly good cleave drafts, not as specialized as someone heavily invested like chad, but still good. And its just too risky, there isn't enough options and play with t1, its either it works or it doesnt right now, so they all opted to just play t2 cause you can at least try to outplay even if your gear is a bit worse or somth.

[wheat lynx]

thank u everyone

[frozen compass]

As a cleave player, I feel like we're being left behind. DPS characters have no depth in their kit except for Massiah. In RTA, we have no counterplay solution against T2 except to pivot in CC. DPS shells are much weaker than other shells.

[high glade]

I saw this thread, I think this patch was super good as well, and then I realized I'm currently -55 lattices rn and can't play any of the newly buffed units 🥀

[wheat lynx]

bro took out lattice loan debt from the hydra bank

[tranquil sparrow]

Hydra bank bank*

[delicate escarp]

Yeah also, please up the weekly lattice amount, all this talk im making about needing more options doesnt work with current lattice economy. Can even sell like 2 lattices in a cheaper pack, I bet a ton of ppl would buy a 15$ 2 lattice pack that wouldnt spend otherwise. And of course the regular amount of lattices from the game should go up aswell. People want to build their exciting units and play but cant

[wheat lynx]

I actually was trying to push for this myself but ran out of time in meeting

didnt get to it yet

just difficult to touch that stuff and argue for it :/

[dark harness]

Can we get an RGB selector soon so I can finally get Celince. Got p5 everything and no celince

[buoyant cape]

this week is pretty good for lattice imo, u get 2 from ember 2 from hyperlink arena trials, 2 from afk arena, 2 from rta, and maybe an extra from cubic+shellstory+union. just a lot of grinding but it is a pretty large amount from normal gains.

[wheat lynx]

since majority of revenue comes from it, it's hard to take my word that "more people would spend if u did this"

not sure how much I can help there

[glossy gale]

Do you know if were getting the prowess up event for RGB animus or if thats only for L/D

[wheat lynx]

yeah the avg weekly is gonna be around 4 for most players

[high glade]

Problem is this is a very good week and that's not even enough for 1 character -_-

[wheat lynx]

just depends on the week

so avgs out to 4 a week throughout the month

which idk it's hard to figure out what is most fair and balacned as f2p is always gonna have to grind a lot compared to spenders

just how the business goes

[wheat lynx]

erm not sure

[delicate escarp]

is that actually the average? that doesnt sound right hmm

[wheat lynx]

yes

dune calculated it in one thread

[sinful pivot]

someone did the numbers for a few months in another feedback thread a while ago

[wheat lynx]

a little luck factors in too

ofc

but others backed up his data

[buoyant cape]

9 lattice can cover a character, better than the normal like 2 lattice avg u get with low event count

[wheat lynx]

I'm in such a difficult spot with lattices though bc it's not something my words and suggestions can easily get to

it's the main source of revenue outside of banners

im just a low level employee at the end of the day

[delicate escarp]

Suggest maybe do a trial pack? like do a global launch event super special lattice pack? 2 lattice for 20$ see how it performs?

[sinful pivot]

4 per week is like 1 unit every 3 weeks, but we started with a lot of units at game start(dont know exactly how many, but i think we started with over 20 ssr) and cant keep up with the new units( 3 new ssr every 6 weeks which is enough time to max 2 units )

[high glade]

Time to walk up the corporate ladder c

[dark harness]

if you want my advice you just drop the price and more people will buy it. people arent buying because the resource is scarce and they are holding them. Even if you doubled the amount you got from events and you could buy people would still buy latticed due to how many pulls the game gives you for free

[wheat lynx]

yeah I was thinking the same as mentioned

the current price of the pack just limits the amount of ppl who wouuld spend

[normal jungle]

and after this week back to lattice drought

[buoyant cape]

very unlucky but at least they added the quest line, a very good addition that rewards the active player. not 2 upset about it

[dark harness]

like think about it this way. $30 a month for a gacha game or something like $15 a month for a game like WoW or ashes. Its a little dumb to charge $30 for something a week that you realistically can build up 1 character every 3-4 weeks and a new character (or two on RGB banners) come out every 2 weeks. So you are always behind at the current rate even as a whale. Im sitting on P5 massiah and yeli that i just cant lattice because new units keep coming out

[wheat lynx]

yes agreed

u me and bread are on the same page with this

[toxic lagoon]

Im sitting here playing 111 units so I can see what next units are like so I have lat reserves for all the new units that are so gated by lats. Like why is celince s2 lvl 5 the shield. Passives shouldn't be blocked by lattice

[wheat lynx]

was onto this idea weeks ago but it's just hard to get forward

[sinful pivot]

i started that way, now i have 30 lattices

[normal jungle]

yes but thats a one time thing, with the amount of characters they are pumping you are never catching up on the lattice

[wheat lynx]

i can see if theyd be interested in this

[dark harness]

just gotta slam ur nuts on the table and say gentleman lets talk business like they do in the movies. it has to work otherwise why would it be in the movies.

[wheat lynx]

lol

[sinful pivot]

who thinks, 3 months from now they ll all go into tia/rahu anyway even after all the patches and new units?

[maiden forge]

I think easiest solution is just sell a lattice shard pack for 3-5 daily. Most games have something like that if they do pieces.

[main cloud]

I hate to break it to you all but selling more lattice is not going to put the game in a better spot. The game needs to step away from lattice being one of their main sources of revenue, so players outside of heavy spending can enjoy the game, and also feel okay with taking a break and not falling so far behind you can't be bothered to ever pick the game back up.

More lattice also means less stress on players if devs decide that an SSR needs a nerf, and gives them the option to nerf SSRs in PvP. I know the game relies on lattice income at the moment, but if the game is going to last it has to move away from that monetization approach.

[dapper hamlet]

But how can it change when nothing is being done to change the status quo?The only thing it can change is by adding new units, new shells or through adjustment patch. If nothing is being done to alter that, then nothing will change.

You can even see the rta discussion here agreeing that t2 has more advantage and cleave getting left out which then comes down to my previous point, t2 was meta and still currently is.

[main cloud]

I didn't read the entire discussion, so if we were talking about a temporary lattice sale to slowly transition to a different monetization model, that makes sense. You don't need to go cold turkey, but a lot of people i know are getting burnt out not being able to build characters, and will not be coming back because of how far behind they will be after a break. It's only a matter of time before CN gets there.

[inland mortar]

Add more events like dreamscape that can give you up to 2 lattice and stop recycle the same events. Its getting boring. Its so true that if you take a break you wont ever come back bc of lattice. That returne event wouldnt get me back with 4 lattice.

[main cloud]

Also, and I don't mean to be rude, but whoever let plume through testing and into the game as is, is omega cooked, we can all agree on that. Holy moly is she broken, and because of the precedent ER has set for not nerfing SSRs, she is broken forever.

[wheat lynx]

great points here that I’ve also been trying to drive but still hard to get things moving in this area. Gonna use this argument more for sure though and maybe consider trial run stuff for various ideas where they can find balance in the monetization more

[toxic lagoon]

Etheria should go for a league business model but still sell lattices, more skins since they do wanna be somewhat f2p friendly

[wheat lynx]

yeah it just needs balance

[high glade]

This is plume 🪶. S1 does AOE 😃 , reducing your speed 🏃‍♂️‍➡️ and increasing damage to enemies ⬆️ . Her s2 gives turn meter+ to all allies ⚡ whenever enemies move 🙅‍♂️ , and S3 applies every debuff in the English dictionary 📖 . It also strips all positive buffs because it is 3️⃣ multihit, allowing the rest of the cc units to 💤 and 🧊 your entire family tree. Unlucky game 😭 .

[sinful pivot]

This is plume 🪶. S1 does AOE 😃 , reducing your speed 🏃‍♂️‍➡️ and increasing damage to enemies ⬆️ . Her s2 gives turn meter+ to all allies ⚡ whenever enemies move 🙅‍♂️ , and S3 applies every debuff in the English dictionary 📖 . It also strips all positive buffs because it is 3️⃣ multihit, allowing the rest of the cc units to 💤 and 🧊 your entire family tree. Unlucky game 😭 .

[wheat lynx]

I’m still not sure ab how to feel with plume honestly

I get the argument but im also curious ab the design team and upcoming units and how they move things forward

[inland mortar]

she killed drafting

[wheat lynx]

as well as meta developments

[normal jungle]

her passive that procs after every enemy turn should work only w the debuffed units, not before she even had a turn

[high glade]

Alright copypasta re-uploaded

[delicate escarp]

ok this is not true, she is a pretty bad fp for cleave too, its only cc that feels forced to fp.

[main cloud]

From the perspective of everyone but the top 10 players, she killed drafting

[brittle gust]

simply selling more lattices also wouldnt fix the underlying feeling of 'not being able to build anything' of f2p players. Ideally lattice rates would be upped across the board.

They could achieve this by releasing characters faster (because let's be real, new characters are the only worthwhile new content in XD games), so there could be more lattices in the game for people to at least build some of them in a decent timespan. The current situation (~ 1.2 maxed characters a month for f2p re:Dune) just feels too suffocating in general imo.

Ends up in a situation where you're hoarding the piss cubes like you're Gollum on acid & triple checking every guide under the sun before deciding where to place the skill ups lol. + Hardly ever excited for new characters because you still have your lattice backlog to get through

[high glade]

Eh I'm not prebanning her anymore and I'm not exactly top 10 I did yes jin

[inland mortar]

did you got your reapers online by any chance

[toxic lagoon]

Same in the mirror it is fine, but against t1 I want plume on my side 🤣 so that sucks. My winrate against t1 is higher with plume than against

[delicate escarp]

reapers arent that good into t2 or even pure cleave so they are doing a big tradeoff for running reaper right now. Pure cc is just not the way in general, reaper is annoying in cc cleave but u can beat it. Pure cc is just an unfun archetype to play against and frustrating to play, it shouldn't be a mainstay of the game imo to just cc ppl to death. But cc+dmg dealers is fine, games are shorter and there is a lot of dynamic turns that feel exciting

[rapid basin]

The flip side to the lattice income issue is the investment inflation issue, which I'm gonna make my hobby horse now I guess, because structures like Celince and Aya S2 getting crazy qualitative changes at level 5 are super hostile

This was already present in places like Lily's completely broken s3 but it needs to not become the standard

[brittle gust]

imo they made the newer LDs broken, because Apex Summons are the next best revenue source after lattices & they want to give more reasons for people to pull more copies of them. Decision driven more by money-seeking & not gameplay balance and based on Plume's kit you cant really convince me otherwise

[inland mortar]

Someone need to teach me here how to draft cleave/cc. maybe bread. i wanna end up with cc/dispel/cleave

[pine knoll]

I feel like u look at the top 50 players and u see mostly rahu, tiamat, fuqiu. How is there not something wrong with that lol? Like clearly it shows one playstyle dominating

Just look at the stats.

Cleave needs more than just some. Help

People playing bruiser really dont understand the pain of other playstyles. They think its fair and balance even u only see bruiser players at the top

[high glade]

HES HERE

[delicate escarp]

if you go further up we talked about how cleave needs some help right now just so ur aware

[maiden forge]

aya should hard-counter plume. My problem with plume is she has a debuff that can’t be cleansed. That’s some nonsense fr

[dark harness]

https://tenor.com/view/alert-alerting-alarming-alarm-gif-15426640

[inland mortar]

aya on reaper cant wait for the t2 push cut in

[normal jungle]

aya plume fuqU 🥰

[pine knoll]

The thing is, if people like us dont voice out, bruiser is literally gonna be the only viable playstyle left in the game.

Whats with these stupid shells as well, u farm speed just to get cut after ur stripper moves.

U dont understand how stupid bruisers and healers have it

And i dont expect my points to get across to u guys, ur literally the reason why its ended up like this

[high glade]

HAIL BRUISERCORD
ALL MY NINJAS BRUISERS HAIL SHOTTY THE BRUISER MAIN

[toxic lagoon]

Isnt it acceptable to accept that the top players in a gacha games are spenders and their bruisers are heavily invested so they would be played. In my experience I play nonstop vs cleave in low mythic high master. I tried cc cleave myself and im stuck playing t1 mirrors.

[dark harness]

from 13 to 50 is mostly cc cleave

[pine knoll]

The rta latest drafts dont show this by the way😂

Also wow u unblocked me, looks like ur bothered by the truth😂

I know theres a hundred of bruiser players doing whatever they can to make sure their playstyle remains broken (yes, i know not u shotty since u said tiamat and rahu shld be nerfed). Whats the point of even trying to make sense lol

[high glade]

OHHHHHH SHIT HE SAID IT GUYS HE SAID IT HOW WILL YES RESPOND!?!?!?

[maiden forge]

i think cleave needs more single target dd like liliam. making decisions to snipe out certain units let’s t1 remain competitive but also dynamic. Releasing a bunch of extra massiahs is just gonna make it toxic

[main cloud]

How do you even fix cleave without making it unstoppable? Supports are so overloaded you would need adjustments aside from new dps.

[sinful pivot]

ahem:
"i know of bruiser player with p0 111 tia get into mythic, bruiser players cry all the time despite being only playstyle, they just dont want other units they havent built to get good"

[dark harness]

Im legit looking at the leaderboards right now like? You can make these claims but when you idk open your eyes and look at the leaderboard

[pine knoll]

Yea i agree.. pretty sure ill easily be top 20 with bruisers btw

[delicate escarp]

I count 22? (might be wrong) cc cleave players from 13-50 so its about even to me

[humble iris]

You guys are missing a large part of it all around, the codex nerf hurts, it hurts in gameplay (nerf) and also from an investment standpoint, were not at the point where we can JUST PIVOT to a new shell option, same as last season i pivoted from revs to codex, there's no way to recoup the investment and grind, nerfing the gear is a poor decision, nerf in ways that dont hinder gear, not this early in the game cycle

[high glade]

I'm rooting for u

[sinful pivot]

someone riddle me if rahu, fq, freya mass is t1 or t2

[maiden forge]

more single target dd. Victor/hoyan should ignore def when hitting low hp threshold. We need a molong-type unit as well for snipes.

[rapid basin]

I know last week you hadn't tried it yet but since the season finally started, have you tried bringing a damage dealer yet?

[pine knoll]

Yea its mostly bruiser lol whats wrong with these bruiser players they do whatever they can to try to justify their position😂

I literally see rahu and tiamat in almost every comp

At least nerf bb i think thats fair

[delicate escarp]

Tbf the codex nerf hit t2 players more than cc cleave tho codex didnt really change if ur just killing them rare occassions where it comes up, but now codex is unusable on vero and a lot worse on doki which does hurt t2

Yes, I literally counted it out, its about even. Can you do the same?

I am not disputing that t2 is better right now since top 10 is filled with it, but saying cc cleave is unplayable is false.

[normal jungle]

after spending 2 months trying to beat rengo they nerfed the only good shell i got from him, not sure if i even waste my time farming amber because they might nerf soon too

[high glade]

Stop making sense bread ur part of bruisercord

[dark harness]

https://tenor.com/view/champoy-oh-shit-rap-battle-meme-woah-gif-17873356

[humble iris]

It doesnt really matter who it hurts the most, but it hurts, and this is a big ticket item that was heavily farmed, this is objectively a bad nerf imo, it should be reverted and balance team should find other ways imo

[pine knoll]

Ah yet another bruiser player trying to defend their case 😂

The list keeps on growing

The only reason why they are getting away with this sht is cause they are majority

[rapid basin]

The guy complaining here about codex refuses to try locking a single DPS with all of his cc units because his preferred style was death by infinite lock and chipping

[inland mortar]

what are you on about that single dps? XD

[sinful pivot]

you didnt mention the many p0 111 tia players in this thread yet, im growing concerned

[high glade]

Wait yea what's going on it's been like 30 mins since u mentioned ur low mythic 111 tia friend is he ok?

[delicate escarp]

Yes why do you not actually respond to what I say, I'm not trying to defend anything, I just said I counted 22, might be wrong, please help me so we can have a normal discussion rather than you just trying to throw shit at me without saying anything of substance.

[dark harness]

stop using logic bread thats not allowed where hes from

[pine knoll]

Ah top players trying to remain top with their unbalanced playstyle perfect!

Nothing new😂

[toxic lagoon]

Ragebaiter

[sinful pivot]

bread rahu fq freya mass is t1 or t2 pls help

[normal jungle]

before the conversation derails buff lattice income for everyone and the weekly quests 👍

[delicate escarp]

I literally advocated for tiamat nerfs and cleave buffs plus releasing more cleave units this whole thread, please stop just saying things of no substance.

Caladborg its a standard draft, its neither, I didnt count it

I did anak, because my boy yeong is still sad af after that

[dark harness]

Bread and I were complaining about the rev nerf while playing bruiser. you LITERALLY couldnt have chosen worse people to paint as the buff bruiser only people

[high glade]

No buff tiamat nerf cleave ur supposed to be a member of bruisercord

[brittle gust]

Bread made a post here asking for unit resets after the rev nerf as i recall after S0

[toxic lagoon]

Standard drafting

[inland mortar]

tiamat is a cleaver with that dmg so dont nerf her

[pine knoll]

Ok please push harder, i would appreciate it!

Rahu nerf as well btw

Why these bruisers be so tanky while doing more dmg than main dps is already beyomd stupid

[sinful pivot]

god this 2 minute slowmode is more toxic than pure cc players

[humble iris]

I mean besides a couple obvious ragebaiters most arent saying a thing about turn 2 nerfs or anything, just revert codex nerf for now see how meta pans out, was a great patch besides it imo

[normal jungle]

this is what a bruiser mirror looks like

[buoyant gust]

This guy is 100% just ragebaiting btw

[rapid basin]

Do you have any leveled and rolled sword 7 shells

[high glade]

FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE SAID IT THIS SHIT GARBAGE FRFR

[delicate escarp]

my bruiser mirrors are really fun lately, stop drafting the healers as prio and prioritize dmg dealers instead and things become fun

[dark harness]

I dont think the codex nerf was as bad as you think it was. Im still getting cced by codex users but usually its on people like obol, kraken, nahor, rcachi, hizuki instead of things like mio, kazuyo etc

[alpine ridge]

The devs want to see long played out matches.

[glossy gale]

Please god rework Amber, especially the Amber-Tiamat interaction. That is all

[humble iris]

Its not horrendous, but you do feel it, and its already about to be an even bigger uphill battle with aya

[normal jungle]

my bruisers are weaker 😢

[maiden forge]

ignore him. he thinks people playstyle is a personality trait. Some people in here wanna make this a bruiser person vs cc person thing, and it isn’t

[toxic lagoon]

This is exactly how it feels, you watch them do all their moves and might get a move every 2 mins🤣

[dark harness]

aya is actually gonna be a D tier or SSS tier unit and it all depends on their translation and how it works in game 💀

[delicate escarp]

im super down for this considering how damn buggy it is. It's stupid is what it is. Just remove her transforming is a good nerf, makes her way less oppressive vs cc cleave and less rng in mirror. Might need more nerf for mirror after that but honestly seems fine otherwise. And they can say that the amber change is a change not a nerf so no reset event

[high glade]

Just trust me bro it'll be as I say and then I will come in here and rain hellfire all over this server

[humble iris]

Way it looks is she should activate her passive same way reaper does even ccd right? Lowkey I think she's great for turn 1 too tho

[buoyant gust]

well at this point they can nerf whatever they want and not give a reset event, shells clearly dont matter for builds

[inland mortar]

tiamat dmg not transformed is to high. She counter one taps all units that are not on bb. Reaper to strong aswell why they added strive on that shell ....

[maiden forge]

unironically, we also need more bruiser dps options. Once someone steals them in the mirror you really have only a handful of options

[pine knoll]

Nerf the turn meter push shells as well.. every single time a strip happens turn 2 teams just cut instantly its so dumb

[brittle gust]

thanks to the lattice drought im more excited for the new Deadeyekai copypasta than the new characters

[dark harness]

"this shell counters my playstyle please nerf it"

[delicate escarp]

the balance patch added some solid options. Lilith, maybe xiada (not enough testing) celince. I maxed lilith, can confirm amazing, im currently maxing celince, u will get a verdict from me in coming videos and streams

[high glade]

I started even translating them into Chinese for the global ppl

[rapid basin]

Only after 4 lattices in her 2, and she'd need to cleanse the cc out of all the other debuffs current strippers and CCs apply to take a useful turn, so good luck

[sinful pivot]

time to put in 4 lattices in all the relevant skills to test if its actually good now

[maiden forge]

xiada is great in a very specific last pick situation, you can’t frontload her, but she’s tons of fun. She is my highest wr pick atm.

[delicate escarp]

nice to see! Hope she picks up steam, will make things more diverse :)

[inland mortar]

i will remind you in 1-2 weeks for this. once that aya hits and ppl build decent reapers. Beeing strong vs a style is fine but straight out killing it is not. But you "pros" know better. Cant wait for the next tourney. Im sure we will see cc/cleave.

[normal jungle]

4/5/5 or 1/5/5, hp modules?

[high glade]

IM PUTTING IT OUT THERE RN but breads Lilith build is T R A S H why go for consistency when u can just gamble everything and hit

[humble iris]

I mean she's a juiced chiaki the echo, think she's goimg to be great, but like this entire thread all ive said is codex nerf was a bit much in this specific patch, everything else was great, bruisers should be good, cleave needs more options, and cc needed some more counterplay, they buffed alicorn, ninf, Aya coming, reaper just dropped, codex nerf on top feels overkill

[dark harness]

Ive got 4 inferno reapers all red rolled already. The ccers are still doing just fine. they just cant ban ling perma and take doki + liliam to remove all the counters to CC now and they will have to actually think about draft

[maiden forge]

555. Hp cr cd/ hp cr atk. LoS bramble bloodbath or gigabyte on strive, but needs more hp since no LoS protection.

Shell: Atk/hp Cr/cd/spd Synergy/Damage/Damage reduction.

[pine knoll]

Yet again proving my point about how playstyles are super unbalanced😂

Ahhh they should release shells to make playstyles sht ahhhh

Thanks mate!

[chilly veldt]

maybe instead buffing the lattice,they can just stop putting important stuff like -1 cd...40% bloom buff in the 4th or 5th upgrade or move them to 1st and 2nd upgrade,like only reason all unit lattice hungry is because they put this important skill upgrade on the latter part of the lattice upgrade,like ofc its going to be lattice hungry if they make it this way

[dark harness]

"This shell counters my playstyle so please nerf it"

Bruisers to rev users

Rev users to lighthouse users

Cleavers to amber users

CC players to reaper and alicorn users

the cycle continues

[normal jungle]

ty, will try to find a good bramble shell

[glossy gale]

One of those shells got nerfed

[pine knoll]

What are u on bro, bro lighthouse counters rev amber counters cleave reaper and alicorn counter CC literally everything sht towards anything thats not a bruiser

Yet again, proving my point

Some bruiser players sure are built different in reasoning 👍 👍 👍

Their gameplay so braindead they forgot how to think😂

[dark harness]

yeah and it shouldnt have been nerfed 💀

[glossy gale]

Also I think most shells are fine I just dont like how Amber interacts with Tiamat. I think that shell is especially toxic. Any other shell I complain about like LH or Reaper's Steps is realistically fine, they just counter some of my drafts. Amber in particular is egregious at the moment

[dark harness]

I think the biggest problem is that tia prevents amber from getting bug fixed constantly. She is just so good on that shell and causes so many bugged interactions with it that its a problem and no one else can really get value the same way so they will never fix it

[humble iris]

Thats the other side of it why the salts flowing this time, feels like biased balancing, like rev got hit then now codex, where's my shell reset event, these ain't pve shells

[pine knoll]

Reaper is a stupid toxic shell as well btw. As long as u have one unit on reaper and one on bulwark, one of them is gonna get a turn😂

Imagine farming dokidoki just to get shat on by a shell.

They should do the same to bloodbath, can wait to see everyone crying abt it

[inland mortar]

toxic starts once aya hits. she pushes all 40% so either ban her but than doki comes which is basiclly the same or ling gets through which is the least toxic out of the 3 but still kinda fucks you over. you forced to give enemy plume aswell since you cant fp her vs reaper t2

[glossy gale]

Mia works into that. If they only have one bulwark, then Kazami Kazuyo can completely shut it down as well. Theres ways around it for sure

[dark harness]

bloodbath is the violent rune of ETR currently. Everyones on it because it prevents burst. Theres not really any other sets that provide the same value. They also have damage tuned to play into bloodbath where if you arent on bloodbath regardless of HP you will die. Its a bad situation that id love to see them fix in some way

[pine knoll]

Yea nerf bb reduce the damage it reduces by at least half i think thats fair. Violent is a chance proc. Bb guarantees to reduce the damage by a ridiculous amount

I love shotty bro, its just tough love

Many couples flirt by arguing

[high glade]

The beef between yes and shotty needs to be studied

[main cloud]

I don't think shotty was saying nerf BB in that paragraph. I think he's saying its a necessary evil until other changes are made that the game needs.

[pine knoll]

Necessary evils can be nerfed👍 👍 👍

Im not trying to ragebait u my love, its just been so long since you showed love to me

[dark harness]

I feel like everyones trying to rage bait me today

[sinful pivot]

maybe shotty was the p0 111 tia user all along

[rapid basin]

Maid Yeli would've been mid

[glossy gale]

ok wait why does red kazuyo S2 hit only once it should be a 2x hit ability

[dark harness]

its not beef im just trying to point out bad takes when i see them so the devs dont listen to them. if they take feedback seriously from a guy with the discord username penis ima be mad

[high glade]

Maybe Xiao was the prelude

[pine knoll]

Ah my love its ok we both know you're wrong but i always give in ill just do it again❤️

Anyways u give more money to the pimps they will always listen to u🙏

Im also upset you couldnt change your profile to "top 8 RTA"

[dark harness]

Wrong on what front? All youve said is nerf bruisers and you dont elaborate on it. I say nerf bruisers and you say I only want them to buff bruisers.

[high glade]

I'm the one saying to buff bruisers 🙄

[pine knoll]

Ah my love i already said its not you but i know you cant read so ill say its not u again

[buoyant gust]

devs are buffing bruisers just to spite this guy

[pine knoll]

When im gone and u only see bruiser playstyle in RTA, u will learn to appreciate me. Well when theres only bruiser playstyle in RTA game would be dead anyways

I mean my guilds top 100 and we lose 4-5 players per week i wouldnt be surprised anyways

[maiden forge]

you’d have to rebalance the entire game to nerf bloodbath tbh. Like dps on supports would be omega high without bloodbath. Even tanks would be blown away to the wind. At this point, release single target defense ignore and molongs that do raw burst based off of whatever stat.

[dapper hamlet]

"This shell counters my playstyle so please nerf it."

And yet the one getting nerfed are the one that counters bruisers playstyle. Ironic.

[high glade]

REVELATION IS A BRUISER SHELL PREACH YEON TIA

[pine knoll]

Ah my love is so bothered by every comment he has to respond to all of them, please leave him alone🙏 🙏

[dark harness]

If i get pinged ill respond. Im just watching youtube

[pine knoll]

Bro feels the need to respond to every ping on a discord game server. Please leave him alone🙏 🙏

[wheat lynx]

god

[dapper hamlet]

You might agree that it doesn't deserve the nerf. But it still got nerfed nevertheless. That means some others were still pushing the agenda of "this shell counters my playstyle so please nerf it".

[maiden forge]

https://tenor.com/view/weird-weird-gif-5499458631198915553

[high glade]

https://i.redd.it/14lfb7igwnpf1.gif

[buoyant gust]

if bread with jam and a cat were taped to eachother, which one would land first?

[dark harness]

yeah and thats why im countering it here with we saw how badly rev nerf fucked up the S0 meta going into S1 and invalidated a lot of people and made them quit

[wheat lynx]

I hope some of yall who hated on me before understand why this job is so difficult sometimes now 😭

When ur stuck in these threads during difficult times it unscrews a few bolts

[pine knoll]

I fully understand my (other) love. If u keep responding ur gonna have to take a break again so i hope you rest well🙏

[maiden forge]

I feel like whenever people have this conversation about rev, they keep forgetting how absolutely toxic and dead the queues were for every other rank when it was being spammed. Yea, top players can adapt to it, but a crappily built rev support squad would eviscerate crappy tanks and bruiser build in lower ranks, which would dead the queue again.

Just personally, queue got much more engagement after it’s nerf, for better or worse

[wheat lynx]

yes

it's very true and it's why the situation is so complicated

[high glade]

I single handedly got death threats sent to Dio cuz I changed my name to his and picked kaz on 3 multiple times on ladder so ye I'm aware

[buoyant gust]

oh this whole community is cooked, idk how you talk to 90% of the people here, people lack critical thinking and only think about their own agenda. Your job is lowkey impossible to fulfill

[toxic lagoon]

Rev got changed bc it was frustrating for ppl who couldn't farm aurora / rengo for lighthouse bc of the progression of the game and also shows why a turn 1 mirror fest is trash for the game

[wheat lynx]

and it's why I spent more time privately working with people but then when I did that everyone got mad and accused me of leaking stuff or having too much bias etc and lots of other things so

can't really please anyone

gotta just deal with it here

and try my best

[pine knoll]

Rev was always ok tho, its just bb wasnt farmed earlier. If devs actually tested the game properly, they would have understood this and not nerfed rev.

So maybe instead of fighting each other we should ask why dev never test game properly?

[dapper hamlet]

But then they still repeated the same cycle again which will then invalidate more people and urge more to quit. And still no compensation either.

[wheat lynx]

never leaked anything about content or upcoming characters with anyone btw

🤣

[sinful pivot]

reset event when

[wheat lynx]

anyways dont want more drama here

sorry

I was contributing just now

just want yall to know this job is not easy and everyone has their own agendas

and people are very toxic

this thread had some really good stuff though

[pine knoll]

In 5 years, its a marathon not a sprint🙏

[wheat lynx]

so I appreciate when yall try to be respectful towards each other but sometimes it just ends up impossible to manage

[dark harness]

i wasnt being facetious i actually dont blame you.

[wheat lynx]

ik a lot more ab what was going on behind the scenes

more than u think

a lot of people lied to me about things too

such a mess

just happy its over now

not gonna let it personally affect my relationships with the players even if people worked against me

I want this game to be good

always have been wanting that

and im thankful for the rta comm coming into this thread today

[pine knoll]

Pls they need to have more going on behind the scenes. I cant be having rilmocha event every other week as an "event"

The new "events" are just packs and packs and packs, which is great for monetization, but at least match that with actual new events

[dark harness]

[buoyant gust]

@wheat lynx i truly wish more of the stuff you bring to the devs had more of an impact, it does feel like most of it goes on deaf ears over there.

[wheat lynx]

yeah, it's all so difficult

and I can't say every suggestion in the server or from players regardless of who they are is going to have the best impact either so it's a war on two fronts im fighting

just getting less involved in the debating and leaving it to the players more now 🤣

I don't talk to anyone privately now because I can't trust anyone anymore

tons of drama and liars and agendas everywhere

[buoyant gust]

I feel like most of the big issues for this game are quite self evident, its things the devs should be able to see themselves but refuse and ignore because of their "vision"

[wheat lynx]

a lot of the rta comm dont like coming here bc of how toxic it gets

as well

which is what I Was getting at

so it's hard to get all the voices and then when u do it becomes war

[chilly veldt]

its still dead but rn its on bruiser

[pine knoll]

Id like to see a turn 1 player from the "rta comm" btw. All i see is bruisers players defending their playstyle when its unbalanced af

Also im not referring to u my love, i didnt even ping but got a reply from you. Do u miss me so much☺️

[dark harness]

thats just @glossy gale

[wheat lynx]

lots of moving parts and restrictions and limited capacities with development and time in relation to player requests, business, game, etc.
I'm on the same page though that many things are obvious and will continue to do what I can

[maiden forge]

Idk. just personally, it feels like i’m getting matches much more frequently. Could just be recency bias tho.

[wheat lynx]

this union tie system is starting to get on my nerves a lot

[jolly ember]

c do u still hate me im sorry about the pings 💔

[wheat lynx]

I don't hate u just dont ping me 5 times over the weekend I promise u I look at these threads 🤣

and just bc i havent responded in one doesnt mean I haven't looked through it all

and taken notes

[glossy gale]

A lil Union system fix here and a lil mid-season balance patch there and we're in a good spot (I think there should always be smaller mid-season balance patches 2 whole months without any balancing is crazy work)

[wheat lynx]

yeah, they're open to the idea. I'm glad they didnt last season though

they had to think about it a lot

it was so much pressure

and there was so much drama

the environment is a bit better now for everything

[pine knoll]

Nerf bb nerf reaper nerf tiamat transformation nerf rahu damage and i think itll finally be a little balanced🙏

Just to let you guys know Im a tester for the global server.

[dark harness]

Im ngl the amount of people that i see that join the rta cord and leave main cord is a little concerning.

[maiden forge]

i disagree tbh. I feel like most people take at least a month to react and build to change. several impactful changes would lead to the issue of building counters to compound tbh.
I’d be down for mid-season union changes tho

[wheat lynx]

it's inevitable but however u and ur friends feel ab me u gotta put that stuff aside and work with me

and not try to take me down or the company down

[buoyant gust]

its things like this and their inability fix simple quest completions for dreamguide twice in a row that just have me question what the hell is happening over there, its such rookie level mistakes.

[wheat lynx]

im reasonable and passionate and want to work with everyone and if u get to know me more there's a bit more nuance to my position and thoughts

always open to talk about things deeper and understand everyone's positions

[pine knoll]

My love ❤️ ❤️❤️

[dark harness]

I mean i cant control the general masses but any of the mod team or core of the rta cord dont actually hate you or the company. they will meme the ever living shit out of those dev talk videos though

[wheat lynx]

yeah idc

that last hypertalk I was so drained

[jolly ember]

i know i know, i was just pinging because i just want people to know that someone saw it, peolpe just want to see or know that you've looke at it, and the only reason why i pinged was because you havent responded and ive seen taht thread get flooded for a while.

as for things like the lattice economy, like yes that's their main way of making money so i understand the constraints but also like, are devs just purposefully not nerfing anything to avoid a reset to save money on lattices (this is what everyone assumes and people think its toxic that there are 0 comms about it)

another thing is like more and more units coming out that seem like you need 5/5/5 to play it competitively, just giving 1 reset per seasonal balance patch is what a lot of people seem to want

[humble iris]

I mean they set you up for failure, here's 3 vanilla questions youre allowed to answer then show them a new unit, like bruh tell them to EXPLAIN these notes

[brittle gust]

marcus deserves an award for getting through his lines without dying of cringe

[pine knoll]

Actually yea, forget the nerfs, they buff everything else other than the thing they need to nerf, so that they dont need to give reset. And it makes things worse cause now we need lattice for those units as well:joy

I dont want to be rude, but i do think that the game is just so close to dying with new popular games coming out soon. And i say that cause im in a top 100 guild and we have 4-5 players leaving every week. In fact it feels like ER is going through exactly what outerplane went through

[buoyant gust]

I would love to see a simple reset event just to fix mistakes people did early, its a brand new game after all and most people had no idea what they were doing going into it. Plenty of other valid reasons to give us atleast one. Purposefully avoiding nerfing anything ever just to avoid the issue is a snake move

[jolly ember]

i would love to as well, we all love to, and we fully understand how harmful it can be, which is why if we have a big balance patch why not just give 1 reset?

another harmful thing is that pretty much everyone thinks and knows that devs are purposefully snaking around the idea of nerfs to units to PREVENT a reset event 😭

[chilly veldt]

they will do anything but reset event

[pine knoll]

Simple reset so all players can become bruiser players😂

[rugged pelican]

Turn 2 units need damage nerf and healing + shielding needs a cap thoughts

[buoyant gust]

i would love it just for you, get that top 20 my guy 🫶

[pine knoll]

1million% but the majority of players are turn 2 players. They just gonna swarm u and ask u to keep quiet even it should be happening to make pvp more balanced

[humble iris]

As much as you ragebait its the truth, revelation didn't need a nerf on dps, it was overtuned with shit like freya and yang 6 hitting, then cc and support being strong with codex, instead of fixing the issues with specific unit interactions they just hit the shells, just so we dont get resets to sell lattice packs

[rugged pelican]

Theres just too much damage across the board imo put a cap on healing and shielding and make everyone do a bit less damage overall

[pine knoll]

My sworn brother, I dont ragebait.

This discord has simply brainwashed you to think that all truths are just ragebaiting.

Im glad you stayed sane and stuck with us

[buoyant gust]

how hard is it to just hire some new artists and pump out skins with exlusive ult animations and effects, they truly hate money

[dapper hamlet]

The thing is, I don't pvp nor do I play etheria that much anymore. None of the pvp changes affect me whatsoever.
However, from the point of view of an outsider, it is blatantly obvious the preferential treatment that is happening towards the bruiser playstyle that it's becoming ridiculous and unfair. So, I called that one out.

Even some of the top players who play bruisers agree that the nerf of the shells shouldn't have happened, but then why did it still happen? Who's pushing the agenda to make balancing way too favorable to bruisers? Especially when bruisers always have been on the top even before the latest adjustment patch.

[rugged pelican]

They'd net a whole lot more profit than they spend hiring the artists to do that

[buoyant gust]

Im confident that if cleave/cc was not such a speed dependant playstyle, more people would be playing it right now, Its just facts that people avoid that playstyle because of the rng it involves in the mirror matchup. Thats what i hated on the early s0 meta and what almost turned me off the game. We just dont have enough top players and innovators that wanna push the limits of it, they are all playing bruisers because it just makes so much more sense account vise

also as bread showed, 22 of the top 50 are still cleave players, despite everything

[inland mortar]

they cant nerf ssr so the only way to balance is nerf/buff shels / introduce new shels / new units that can fix a issue. They can nerf ssr ofc but that would mean resets and they dont want that anymore. I think they lose more money this way but w.e once new games hit the market you will see ppl leave faster and faster. They had luck till now that we didnt get any decent game out.

[maiden forge]

It 100% did tbh. maybe not a full 30% but like yall bugging if you dont think the raw dps these supports were doing on the highest base spds isnt absurd.
Rev plume + buffed rev celince + buffed ninfo etc etc

[humble iris]

Did you read passed the first line, I literally said it was overtuned on supports

[maiden forge]

yea and so simpler solution than nerfing alll supports, was to neg the damage on it overall. Now it’s only viable on dedicated dps, which is how it was supposed to be ngl

[chilly veldt]

viable on dedicated dps? ,you know they can just make the dmg scale with more attack and crit dmg requirement instead nerfing the dmg right? because the problem is people go swiftrush+swiftraid with double crit piece

[maiden forge]

No the core problem is how high base shell stats are. You really dont need a ton of extra attack to make use of revelation because the shell itself (and all shells for that matter and prowess too) just juice you with overall stats. So simplest solution was to neg damage overall in pvp.

And frankly, i think it was the least convoluted choice. They could experiment with buffing it back up slowly.

[chilly veldt]

thats why i fkin said make the requirement stricier, because the support wont reach the crit dmg requirement if they build swiftrush+swiftraid set for it(which where all the revelation problem come from)

and if they try to take the dmg to max they gonna be slow which is easier to counter

both are easy solution but they take the dumb one

[maiden forge]

why wouldn’t they be able to reach cd requirement?? You want all rev users to have been forcefully slowed down across the board to hit cd reqs (which i’m not seeing how you’d be unable to because again supports abusing it have high base spd and innate ability to steal turn regardless).

I don’t love the change, but between all the options, it’s the easiest to balance around in the future.

[chilly veldt]

because the problem here is they go fkin SWIFTRAID+SWIFTRUSH WITH 2 CRIT RATE PIECE,ffs....they are speedy and deal lot of dmg,but if you take out the speed it wont be as oppresive as it was

[quick mauve]

All roads leads to the inferno difficulty thread so much issues would have been avoided if people were able to clear inferno dungeons like a normal thing

[toxic lagoon]

Gatekeeping inferno through progression means people just used the progression pve stuff to pvp, so it was toxic t1 mirror spam is not good for the game. its unfun if ur just lower speed and its oppressive to newer palyers

[humble iris]

I dk man its just a really bad choice nerfing gear in general imo, like if you farm too much of something, youre 1 balance patch away (rev/codex possibly bb in the future) away from all that grind being detrimental, instead of just nerfing the units themselves abusing it, like make freyas s3 a 3her, suddenly rev wasnt near 1 shotting for example, it would matter less if were a year into the game with robust accounts, but its less then 6 months in, nerf the units and give a minimal reset instead

[quick mauve]

People had to lattice things they didn't want to lattice because they needed to clear and farm efficiently

[cold apex]

holy love bombs you have to tune down your parasocial relationship dude its so c

fckin cringe and weird.

[wheat lynx]

lets all just be friendly

if i catch any of u saying the r word to each other u will be banished

[gloomy breach]

we need sonia

[maiden forge]

sonia, icares, and raoq/dark harpu

[wanton spruce]

You were trying to push this but ran out of time in the meeting? Like bruh... you cant be serious. We have been discussing this topic after 3-4 weeks of western global launch, people arent yapping for fun or are greedy in terms of the whole lattice economy situations, its a serious issue and it got to a point where you certainly can say its objectivley bad.
Need to tackle this problem ASAP with actual reasonable changes. Handing out a couple of lattice in the new hyperlink quests will not solve the problem just saying. It needs to be a passive income increase how bread lowkey mentioned. I was writing feedback threads about it several times now. Since I believe they dont want to listen to western community anymore and rather focus on opinion and feelings of their new asian player base, I can tell you for sure they gonna run into the same problems we have with lack of resources to build fun and engaging teams.

[tranquil sparrow]

Reset?

[dark harness]

revelation

[wheat lynx]

I'm specifically talking about 15/20$ lattice packs rather than 30$

[jolly ember]

do u think the economy would be cooked for XD if they gave out 1 reset just curious 😮

[wheat lynx]

resets are not something I want to argue about sorry

it's not so black and white, but if I provide any counterargument it will only make you more frustrated so it's not really my place to have an argument about it anymore

[jolly ember]

that is understandable thank you, just wanted to try to ask a general question from the populous

[wheat lynx]

yeah, sorry I can't give a firm answer or anything

it's very nuanced and I don't really want to start drama over it

[cold apex]

just dont be baited by the one person here who checked every logical fallacies in the book in this single thread alone

[wheat lynx]

ill be okay

[wanton spruce]

good, otherwise I would have been piss mad lol

[versed sage]

No reset

[pine knoll]

Yes theres lots of baiters out there guys pls be careful

[cold apex]

https://tenor.com/view/ted-lasso-rebecca-welton-ah-speak-of-the-devil-hannah-waddingham-speak-of-the-devil-gif-15054348380133646051

[wanton spruce]

We need to make ER feedback user tier list

[pine knoll]

I mean i speak the truth, its just impossible to reason with some people cause they play a broken playstyle and dont want it to be nerfed.

I would be the same as well if i was in such a privileged position, its just human nature guys

[wide pagoda]

[grave sorrel]

name the some people

[drifting thistle]

Ur hair first person

[grave sorrel]

you

[pine knoll]

Good to know

[dapper hamlet]

Except, in his point of view, your truth is the fallacy and in your point of view, his truth is the fallacy. Your experience does not automatically disregard the other's experience and vice versa.

Problem is, some bruiser players keep on downplaying and say that bruisers aren't op and keep on invalidating the other person's experience, while everyone who has eyes can see that top 20 players are mostly bruisers. Even in the latest tournament before the balance patch, everyone still used bruisers.

Don't even use the excuse of, "Well, it's a tournament, bruisers are the safest." No, tournament is all about abusing the meta and using off meta pick to catch people off guard. You wouldn't be confidently picking bruisers if there were 10 units that function like Massiah and effectively counter your comp.

[dapper hamlet]

Actually, casual players are forced to run cleave because that is what their pve comp is. Which is why you often see low ranks doing cleave and throw in some cc unit here and there cause they raised cc units for doki/hoyan as well. Bruisers become a luxury when you already finished having a functional pve comp and can start to farm for more to diversify your comp or decide whether you want to fully commit to cleave.

I can't speak for him but his claim that some people can't be reasoned with is very true. But it also goes bothways. He also can't be reasoned with because he's stuck on his mindset. Still, that doesn't automatically invalidate his experience into "you don't know what you are talking about." Because you're not him. No one else knows what he is experiencing except the said person.

Take example as my account. I'm casual. I even quitted sometime after Batsby and came back for free Lily. If I go pvp, I only have cleave/cc unit. But I can clear all farming pve content at ease.

And then take a look at my friend's account. Also casual. He likes t2 unit so he's been raising bruiser from the start. He still can't clear rengo/khloros inferno to this day, though he also quitted somewhere in between like me. But being unable to clear inferno will automatically gut his pvp progression.

[pine knoll]

Sure casual are being forced to run bruiser. But it doesnt make sense that you can be casual and be beating everyone playing other playstyles lol

Yet again my point is being proven, ive already said bruiser is a low investment playstyle thats too unbalanced

Imagine being rewarded more for putting in less effort😂

Yea yea keep bringing in ur fallacies when bruiser and healers actually being unbalanced is the truth

Like ive said if all these people genuinely felt that what i was saying is bs they wouldnt be so bothered to keep replying to me 😂

[dapper hamlet]

Bruisers are still hard to gear and need high investment too though. The stat requirement is also high. Bad geared bruisers can still easily get cleaved even with a Yeli.

[chilly veldt]

a shitty roll(right shell with right main stats) bruiser team with plume/sania/tia/any healer shit on a shitty roll yeli team

[dapper hamlet]

What? I was referring to the argument that bruisers needing lesser investment /easier to gear up compared to speed contest t1 team which is untrue because bruisers need high stat requirement as well.

[terse tundra]

T1 is easy to gear, just hit spd

[chilly veldt]

T2 as easy...just get main stats with BB+amber

[plain bluff]

Its a fact
Bruiser you need a very small investment to get enough tankiness, that's why you can put so much dps on them so easily
For speed contest team , its base on your own luck, you get Red speed gg

Both are Quick to build , but one is luck base to min max , so speed teams are harder to gear

[rapid basin]

Have any of you built bruisers that stay alive and do damage

[pine knoll]

Thats easy. Their damage depends on their tankiness afterall. Just need crit rate on subs.

My holden does do quite a lot of damage at 3.5k def and 80% crit rate, which is easy to hit

[subtle adder]

Yes is bruiser player smh

[pine knoll]

Im not a bruiser player but i do have holden built, along with sania, ling and doki.

And ive played with holden and friends and i understand that they are just unbalanced and broken. Forget the ridiculous amount of damage bruiser dish out while being on bb, the cutting mechanics is also insane. People chose to be on bloodbath to be tanky, yet they can also move right after enemy stripper moves although they arent fast

[terse tundra]

Then youre just slow, im not cutting the 330+ spd monsters

[pine knoll]

Yes u can lol, u literally get 30% boost with strive and reaper.

That means u need like 240 speed to cut after 340 speed unit moves and 240 is easy to hit

[toxic lagoon]

reaper ling can cut, but against like hein, my units have buff block, 2 last words, she aint cleasning that and now, ling also immunes before cleansing so 😂 theres also obol and stuff with 3 dots + a stun to cleanse its kinda rough with how many debuffs there are

[pine knoll]

Like ive said a million times, one unit with reaper and one with bulwark. This forces opponent to bring a stripper and either the unit with reaper or the one with bulwark will get a turn

And just to let u know
Cut => move in between enemy 1st and 2nd unit. So before 2nd unit can stun/freeze, the unit cuts

And as long as the bruiser gets to move, the other team is dead cause of how much stupid dmg bruisers do

Goddamm some players need a recorder to get a point to their heads😂

I understand u play bruiser and keep wanting to have it the easy way, its normal to feel that way👍

[toxic lagoon]

Yeah but ling cant immune hein and doki gets buff blocked too. I played cc cleave myself, hardest part about it was turn 1 mirrors because of tje fact tjat you need to speed tune and spread out speed.

[sly summit]

I mean anyone running cc no stripper deserves to lose - and secondly if someone builds their cc units with the intent to lock down a unit and dies to one counter attack (which shouldn’t happen anyways) they also deserve to lose

[maiden forge]

Ngl this also isn’t true tbh. You need very very efficient stats if playing bruiser the higher you go. Cleave is hardest because you don’t get to benefit from wide spread of modules, you need everything to have spd, everything to have same right side etc etc, so you need like 6-12 copies of the same busted module.

Bruiser is easier to gear because you can equally benefit from a strong hp set, def set, atk set, so lessens the burden and let’s you get wider spread of good modules. Even then, in the mirror difference between well built units and bad is HUGE. A cleave player will 1 tap a mid bruiser build, but to stop cleave i had to max out allll my damage reductions and balance spd/hp etc so i’m not hard-lapped.

[dapper hamlet]

This tbh. I can still cleave through tiamat/sania/ling when they are on BB even with Yeli if they aren't built well enough. Just pile on Ninfo+Plume.

[tired pebble]

I think that's what a lot of people aren't understanding, is dmg cleave is supposed to have proper set up to work. Def break, afk buff aka the typical dmg cleave. You can't just bring a Yeli and expect her to break through BB if you're drafting her with CC cleave

[frozen compass]

Agree cleave need set up but even with the correct set up it doesn't do much damage
But bruiser without set up can os dps or support is it normal ?

[dapper hamlet]

But at the same time, my Yeli can also deal wet noodle against a very well built bruiser especially if they go Tia+Viper. So investment and gear really matter for bruisers too. My friend is a casual t2 player and he always says how BB doesn't stop anything and still can get killed easily with Yeli multiple s1 hits.

[inland mortar]

who needs setup if you can one tap with s1 tia. Yeli sucks as a cleave unit vs t2 she dies to counterattacks ebfore she even can follow up. 1 of the reasons mass is so good he is safe. T2 can also splash fast units into the comp without making the comp itself worse or not working. Like splasha lily or mio that often outspeed t1 cc players. I cant steal a ling from t2. Dont have spots i need dps-dispel-cc. But why am i even talking dead ass game i write more on dsicord than playing at this point. Good thing we have games coming out this month.

[terse tundra]

Thats why its called cc cleave you cc and they don't counter

[inland mortar]

yeah thats working rly good ..... cc has like 0 room for errors. Cant recover if you miss dispels/cc or if you go pure cleave and fail its pretty much over. What would help is more aoe wound units.

[toxic lagoon]

Isnt that the whole point of turn 1 vs turn 2. Turn 1 wants to end it with pure speed. Turn 2 hopes to survive and get to move at the cost of being slower maybe tools of being hit to cut, etc. If the turn 2 player adapts and tries to speed contest you thats standard and not turn 2. If pure cleave is good tbh what is the counterplay.

[inland mortar]

i dont think cc is speed heavy. Cant even afford pushers anymore with all the anit cc stuff. need to speed tune most stuff so even if you could in theory run faster cc units your dispels have to be faster. And yes t1 wants to end it fast, but t2 recovery is so broken with busted shels and heals that make cleave obsolete if you "only nuked 80%". And those bruisers one tap your units which is idk ...

[buoyant cape]

are there any other characters besides lily that increase shell cooldown

[toxic lagoon]

I agree cc is not apeed heavy which is why alot of cc cleave players lose to other tjrn 1s if they arent fast enough. I played this before its hell to play turn 1 mirror when ur geared for cc cleave. Maybe more aoe wound, would help, but hein last words being have to cleanse 1 by 1 with ling immune buffing before cleanse means block cucks her. Like the lack of cleansers is why its frustrating too, you can preban ling steal liliam doki and then its cooked. Tia amber is definitely dumb tho and everyone agrees on that. Like turn 2 players hate that shit too. And we lack more wound than turn 1. She just kills the wound unkts if we try to bring bb on them.

[humble iris]

Acting like bruisers dont run bulwark on units like holden or fuqiu, tell me how to run mass tsuki beyontin + dispel + cc in a 4 man comp post ban, especially when most bruisers pre ban hein or plume if they dont just outright preban mass, considering there's maybe 4 total massiahs on the ladder that can 1 tap a bruiser crew built well, just add a cc is the dumbest low effort response

[dark harness]

its pretty easy to do in the most non condescending way possible. you pick lily mio or lily freya, lock yeli. last 2 picks is usually obol + mio assuming hein and plume are gone. If plume is available you fp plume and then go lily yeli, into like obol + mio or obol + nahor. the problem is just speed tuning but most people that run it have it locked down pretty well

[maiden forge]

The problem is moreso that cleaves dont have good def break set up or one-shot units. Even in other games, bruisers counterhitting you in anticleave, normally kill or almost kill.
Tia and rahu are overtuned in damage, but other than them you usually wont get one shot by anything on counterhit. More things like nahor are needed for other dps to shine.

[terse tundra]

If you go tsuki beyo mess you dont need cc

[humble iris]

Come on man, a lineup of Lilly freya yeli mio obol is not beating your account, esp after you ban obol there and noone can strip your bulwarks, yeli just doesnt do enough damage, some random 1/1/1 tiamat in gold tho sure why not, youre gonna smoke that comp

[inland mortar]

thats plume in the first 2 even 3 healers can knock you down with her XD

[toxic lagoon]

look cc units can be lvl 1 that nahor...

[humble iris]

Thats not even remotely the comp you described lmao, hein and plumes in half those

[dark harness]

"its not exactly as you described your entire idea is wrong"

Even in the tank match up mio is messing with me since most bruisers have taken most of their team off of bulwark. Im also showing all my loses to CC this season and I only have 12 loses

[toxic lagoon]

Also its not like everyone runs bulwark on holden. People run artisan to be better in mirror and bulwark to be better vs cc. Thats just the dynamics of building units and people choosing what they want to be better vs. Same with putting like healers on reaper and eff res. Those healers now are not very good in the mirror.

[pine knoll]

Bruisers are broken, trust me if i were playing bruiser comp itd be easy top 20.. such braindead gameplay, being so broken with low investment

These guys are arguing even when they know it aint balanced, cause they dont want their playstyle to get nerfed, its alright my friends its just human nature to be selfish and want the best for yourself. However, it wont be healthy for the game, and when the game dies after u dumped in so much money, u can regret the fact yall didnt listen to people like us

[humble iris]

When the f did i say that, yall just really wanna argue for any fing reason in this thread, your specific lineup example was way shittier then any of those lineups you just linked for loses, all I said is the responses to anyone in the thread are approaching real low effort territory, as usual all I want is codex unnerfed for the season i think its a bit overkill at the moment, then we go from there

[dark harness]

I mean cc still use codex. The only one that doesn't is mio since she can s2 into S3 with jackel and you just don't move. Obol uses, nahor uses. Anyone with hard cc usually

The nerf just makes it so it's harder to perma cc but with Lilith buff it's possible still also if you just giga outspeed it's possible

[humble iris]

100%, its not a crippling nerf to codex, but it feels overkill atm is all im petitioning, feel like thats not an unreasonable take lol

[toxic lagoon]

Tbf, it had no drawbacks before. So it feels justified in some way. You get to ULT 2 TIMES. maybe bad word, but ulting 2 times in a row is really strong and impactful

[dark harness]

It's getting rid of the stall cc playstyle that everyone hates and is pushing you to draft more damage. It was the lightest nerf possible with keeping the core use of the shell. If anything it hurt turn 2 the most with doki, veronika, etc not being able to use it over the course of a longer match.

But then again they also buffed Halloween so they all just moved to that

[pine knoll]

One unit on reaper one unit on strive it aint that difficult to counter the cc. People who play bruiser just so used to being spoiled with low investment that they cant farm an extra shell😂

Imagine nerfing codex when theres a shell that gives 30% boost with strive almost everytime an enemy moves

[humble iris]

What other shells have drawbacks?

[dark harness]

yeah i dont know if drawbacks is the correct word. I think trade off is a better word since usually S3 is the most powerful skill a character has

[humble iris]

I did swap a few to Halloween it feels fine tbh, just stinks not having double swift on them, so its kinda just 12 swift + 12 time, but its still fine as long as you can keep them around 280-300 spd

[dark harness]

ive seen some theory about having your strip on codex or jackel for double swift and having your primary CC on halloween etherplague

so you get the speed down or push back with the strip and then you can perma cc on halloween

[humble iris]

I did that, hein and plume are still on codex, then the "follow ups" like mari are on the Halloween for different waves of cc, its working tbh just have to have the speed rolls from farming doki every 2x

[terse tundra]

"just add a cc is the dumbest low effort response" dont wanna nitpick but you literally said this and he proved you that they just add strip and cc thats pretty much it

[dark harness]

also if you havent built her yet. Giga fast mia on codex is probably the most annoying pick since it doesnt proc reaper. Also her S3 is really good for CDR for your other CC units

[humble iris]

i was genuinely thinking about that, just dropping tsuki and giving her gear/replacing her with mia or aya, cleave vs cleave just having lilly and freya with a fast yeli/blue rin is usually fine by itself, and mia definitely seems like an upgrade for the cc route no?

[dark harness]

most of the top CC players have her built since bruisers will ban hein and take plume so it gives you giga cycle, strip and pushback on a pick that no one will ban unless they know you have it

[terse tundra]

yeah mia is godly unit, she was one of the first yeongeos revs after lh

[dark harness]

theres a reason bread, chad and I put her top 4 unit in the game I fucking hate her

[humble iris]

does she work at 4/1/1 or 4/3/1 or need more lattice

[dark harness]

I think she needs her S2 up for sure since you are double S2ing 4-5-1 honestly

[terse tundra]

id see it working 4-3-1 with codex

[humble iris]

AWESOME since i have 37 codex lmfao, thus the thread

[nimble sonnet]

Wow. You have to make 0 errors so that I get to take 0 turns and watch you kill me. We should really give you more leeway frfr

[inland mortar]

just play your dead ass game after this month its over anyway.

[nimble sonnet]

https://tenor.com/view/crying-cat-sad-cat-me-when-i-dont-get-orod-tickets-gif-13399313231964052110

[chilly veldt]

Red kazuyo but its 1 unit and hoden s2

[fading bison]

id love to see a dps that doesnt synergise with turn 2 for example with a a passive that makes him lose dps the more turns he takes
as of now t2 can basically build every unit on bloodbath while t1 is limited to few options, so t2 can counterpick vital turn 1 units while cleave doesnt have the option bcs they will be outclassed if they lack dps even if they steal a healer or bruiser

[dark harness]

you could also do the reverse. so many people know ill go tanks so they pick sania tia and then lock liky and then they pick cleave so you have to deal with sania tia lily or you have to deal with lily + cleave.

[maiden forge]

I keep saying it’s weird how cc/cleave players aren’t stealing more often. Someone stole a ling from me and drafted cc anyway. Was very hard to deal with, messes up my drafting direction too.

[toxic lagoon]

using holden in cc cleave after prebanning tia also kinda hurts t2. When i was doing it, people were answering with rahu, makoto, etc and they kinda suck against cleave or sometimes no dps bc their acc doesnt have any dps after holden tia.

[pine knoll]

These guys always got some bs to say every single time😂

We all know u guys know turn 2 comps are broken. U simply dont want to admit it so it doesnt get nerfed, and we acknowledge thats its normal to be selfish and want the best for yourselves👍

[toxic lagoon]

I paly turn 2 because i cant ply turn 1 mirrors, I absolutely can play turn 1 into turn 2 tho so idk waht your point is? Do u just want me to be forced to turn 1 mirror always?

[maiden forge]

we gotta stop responding to this man fr 😭

[dapper hamlet]

Oof. I tried my low invest 1/1/1 Tiamat and 1/1/1 Rahu in rta with no inferno gear, turtle team, non awakened shell, no reconfig shells, all on BB, just slap correct mainstat on right side. So far got 4x winstreak in gold rank where everyone still plays cleave and cc. I just keep postbanning their Massiah and they will do tickle damage. If you can't beat them, join them.

[inland mortar]

Kokardi rly looks like a cleave unit. They rly needed that support! big W

[wanton spruce]

Rly? I thought he’s scaling dps with his passive instead of first turn cleave

[frozen compass]

Nop scaling dps is for t2 player not cleave

[inland mortar]

i meme son im a professionell t2 hater

[blazing sapphire]

Gold so I’d hope so 😭

[toxic lagoon]

Keep pushing! You got this alongside Yes. Top 20 soon. 🔥

[dapper hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/no-time-busy-aint-nobody-got-time-for-that-gif-15753141

[toxic lagoon]

But I mean cleave also harder in gold because no ban protect. There really should be a ban protect atleast of they wanna make the argument that no preban since people in that rating might not have a wide enough roster. If they try their boost comp it dont work, they gotta pick 2 dps. Like for people there, diting is their other dps.

[full oasis]

i dont get how people dislike bruisers. just because they have 500k effective health, deal glass cannon levels of damage and dont need turns cuz follow-up/counter attacks? i dont see what would be wrong about that

[pine knoll]

Dont speak the truth bro, ur gonna get the same 3 people try to defend themselves over and over again

[versed sage]

Time to go eos

[rapid basin]

Borgne needs to take turns so please retract your slander

[full oasis]

right, i am so so sorry

but in the end, thats all an pve issue right? i mean, if im too filled up from pvp i just do khloros dungeon. my auto has 50% success rate, but in the end i get my well deserved 4-5 slumbaa. good!

[dapper hamlet]

I went 10 rta battles in gold rank using 1/1/1 Tia and 1/1/1 Rahu. Win 7 lose 3. It's actually super fun bullying those cleavers and cc. Lingluo would cut in with Reaper and then cleanse. Mass got permabanned while Yeli can only do tickle damage to my comp. Then Tiamat transform and wipe the floor.

[tranquil sparrow]

Bro didn’t have the 5/5 yeli

[blazing sapphire]

Wth 😭

[toxic lagoon]

use 111 holden pls

[dapper hamlet]

I have him on 1/1/3 pve gear but I don't think I can fit him in my comp since I mainly go for Tia+Viper.

[pine knoll]

Ahhh gotta say whatever i can to defend my unbalanced playstyle ahhhh

[heavy oar]

Ngl this feedback has been entertaining

[cosmic crown]

Yikes it's still alive, wtf did I created
Thanks for all your answers tho, was a rich argument !
TL ; DR : dead game in few months, if you didn't build bruisers and still playing cleave or CC you can check the next Gacha release 😉

[acoustic bough]

It was a good post, great to see the takes of t2 big brain players defend their style that they invested lattice into which is the biggest problem the game has atm. Lattice investment makes it so you can only fully commit to one style of either bruiser or cleave. And seeing how majority of the ccs and top "elite" players play t2 and xd pandering to them for cc and cleave nerfs makes this game fair and balanced where every voice matters.

[drifting thistle]

Kenny why are you exposing the system

[pine knoll]

Come on Kenny, don't speak the truth! Most of them hate to hear it!

Well if the biggest CN whales are T1 players, things really might change and then all the whales here would find the playstyles being balanced, cry, and quit😂

[heavy oar]

guys we got another cleanser you have more reason to doom post

[delicate knot]

After losing many braincells i finally made it to mythic with cc cleave draft

Nahor best unit in the game ngl

[toxic lagoon]

Did it with rosa too 🔥

[delicate knot]

P5 Rosa

[heavy oar]

wow whale

[fading bison]

nah every1 has a p5 rosa

[versed sage]

Nice to see a hein there

[wheat lynx]

goodbye user yes

[dapper hamlet]

Damn. He got banned for that?

[wheat lynx]

no

long history of toxicity and hostility that has gone on for too long

[terse tundra]

Thank god

[dapper hamlet]

Yeah, no. That doesn't sit right to me at all. It just proved my statement is correct about circle jerk off of top rta bruiser elites and power abuse of banning whoever disagree on their narrative. He did not do anything toxic or harrass people at all. I remember back then you painted me as toxic as well simply for writing a long text and calling out of your unprofessional behavior. And I was right all along. You're unprofessional. You learnt nothing from your past mistake. Don't bother kicking me. I'll see myself out.

[toxic lagoon]

He is attacking palyers instead of making points

[tranquil sparrow]

He got banned for this?

[drifting thistle]

If u talk negatively u will be also get rekt

[glossy gale]

[wary frost]

[tranquil sparrow]

Oh shit. Sorry t2 overlords. T2 is the worst comp in the game. Cleave and cc should be nurfed. It’s too op. Please spare me UwU

[wheat lynx]

no

[wheat lynx]

yall r such drama farmers u know damn well how lenient we have been here

trying to push for a more peaceful environment

[glossy gale]

if you ban all of them i wont have any content

[wheat lynx]

there are quite a few people who have been toxic for way too long or only ever come to instigate and ragebait

[wheat lynx]

that definitely is the battle here...

[cold apex]

can you honestly say you read through every single messages in this post? Cus i did. He had many questionable moments to say the least. If he kept replying the same way in other posts then it is deserved

[wheat lynx]

he left, good luck getting a response

people will always have their own agenda and biases.. is what it is

[cold apex]

yea, no that doesnt sit right to me at all

kidding

[tawny canopy]

https://tenor.com/view/hockey-only-game-bryzgalov-anahe-gif-8306971

[rapid basin]

No, he's been deeply aggressive and unwilling to engage anybody in good faith at all for months

Oh he's gone

[tawny canopy]

https://tenor.com/view/talking-to-the-wall-gif-25370159

[gleaming grove]

Noooo my content but he finally gone

[rugged pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/minion-banan-water-gif-4374588345379655521

[wide pagoda]

[blazing sapphire]

He would literally be negative all the time and make unnecessary comments majority of the time bruh oh bro left

[versed sage]

Dw i will take over

[chilly veldt]

full dmg set with law of silence and the enemy still able to last for 57 turn...might aswell use ouroboros/gigabyte with BB and swiftrush

[maiden forge]

xiada doesnt counter tiamat brother 😭. Xiada is good WITH tiamat, not against

[chilly veldt]

i dont have any to counter tia bro she all i have,my cc setup sucks and unlatticed

if i can bring celince i bring her but i need to lattice her first before i even use her...and p5 tiamat is no joke even when i pair my xia with my own tia

[maiden forge]

Your tia needs cd build.

Tsutomo, green kaz, liliam, mizuki is good too but requires good followup. rahu.

She’s a bs ass unit, especially when she’s well-built, but that’s what i tend to use on those defs.

She’s on lighthouse so even easier to tsutomo too

[bitter quartz]

this is my xiada set. it works pretty well. i just wish i had more crit rolls.

she doesn't really need a damage set. she can nuke an entire team when she's stacked up all the way. i ran her with rev before her recent buffs, and the second she hit 3 stacks + rev, goodbye team. i might swap back to it, tbh.

[maiden forge]

what rank are you and what comp do you use this in?

[bitter quartz]

around master.

[cosmic crown]

It's becoming to be really cringe, stall gameplay has more and more tools. Other gameplays had buff Nahor and Batshit
And even though, stall players keep whining about their unlimited ways to out draft all other gameplays.
GL playing hundreds of games stall vs stall when all the other players will get tired of this one way game

[summer geyser]

Aya and Kokardi feat in both gameplay wdym stall has more tools

[cold apex]

whats more cringe is how t1 cant freely share their stats and cook some builds/comps with each other cus if they do, others will know their speed and it will lose them games. I have a t1 account and idk wtf im doing other than farm dokidoki

[maiden forge]

they gotta let us start sharing builds from arena in-game. would help a lot

[cold apex]

https://discord.com/channels/994852318904340560/1419918787142226010 100% this

[cosmic crown]

That's the point, all new char fit in stall. Every each one of them, and even if they don't, put BB and it's back on stall track.
For cleavers aya doesn't do more than we already have and kokardi is the same. Having more cleave chars or more push atb in cleave won't help

[summer geyser]

aya lock , 3 dps
this is actually what the top8 is doing rn

[maiden forge]

Why do you keep saying stall. Who tf is running stall comps that you’re losing to? 😭.

I have barely seen triple heal picks even in bruiser mirror fights this season. fights on average are much faster too.

[rapid basin]

I'm actually seeing them more and more in low masters. Protect the king with Kokardi (loses to pretty much any bruiser but Mizuki) and protect the king with Rahu (much more annoying). 2 healers + Aya or 3 healers. The matches are taking fucking forever

[rapid basin]

Just did another 5 games, 2 were like that 🤷 about the same as it's been all week. They make the game feel awful to play even when you win

[dark harness]

stall doesnt really work if you have a good liliam or kokardi

[tranquil sparrow]

define good

[rapid basin]

I'm a pass spender with 8 lattices lost in Massiah I don't have good anything

[drifting thistle]

P5

[maiden forge]

i veronika celince the rahu ones tbh. I got veronika on giga, farming more mods for her to juice her stats to high heaven

[rapid basin]

Yeah. I mean, I know the ideal counters, it's just a gear and lattice issue for me

[dark harness]

p0 full damage kokardi still can cook stall if its just rahu

like milo said most of top ladder is just aggro drafting

[cosmic crown]

BUT IMAGINE : They perma up ALL bruiser / stall / T2 w/e you wanna call it ; they nerf codex.

[dark harness]

Yeah codex deserved the nerf. Codex is still great for CC. CC is in top ladder still and its just as annoying. Codex nerf was a nerf to T2 that cant use it anymore on things like doki and get good milage out of it

[cosmic crown]

But you have to stop with the "CC is in top ladder". It's not a reason, the game will be healthy when stall, CC and cleave dps will be all in top RTA and winning will depend on how you draft not what you are playing
And also, it would be great if you all could stop being hypocrits, just look at the ranking RTA and count each archetype played.
Here is a quick look, tell me you play stall without telling me you play it
https://i.imgur.com/gLqrTZu.png
https://i.imgur.com/6DJVFMZ.png
(To spare you hours of counting, it's 2 ppl not playing stall in top 10 and same ratio goes on till top 200, but one day we will talk without being hypocrits it's all good.)

N.B : CC / Cleave players are able to discuss nerf massiah or codex (even tho it wasn't need right now) or even discuss other nerfs (like revelation we already took) but strangely bruisers can't discuss AT ALL the nerf of their crack broken units

[rapid basin]

That's why I also included gear 😎

@cosmic crown most of those non cleave teams are very aggressive and cycle damage quickly

[dark harness]

Stall =/= bruisers

Also im probably the bruiser player on record the most saying they need to nerf bruisers so im not sure why you are calling me a hypocrite. All I said was that CC was viable and present in top RTA I didnt say it was dominating

[dark harness]

first game of breads stream is cc lmao

[cold apex]

"but strangely bruisers can't discuss AT ALL the nerf of their crack broken units"

i hope you read your own post because literally EVERYONE here said Tiamat (among others) needs to be nerfed. People already acknowledged bruiser units didnt need their buffs in S1. Shotty and the rta discord gathered ideas and built a whole document for the devs back in August with lines to NERF RAHU, HOLDEN AND LILIAM, NERF BLOODBATH AND LIGHTHOUSE in it.

So please stop voluntarily CC-ing yourself with the thought "ofc bruisers dont want their units be nerfed~" because bruiser players also get tilted by getting one shot by Tiamats out of nowhere. Let's graduate out of that thought because its so tiring to see

[cosmic crown]

Thanks for that clarification !
Tbh I kinda throw that to see if some well brained and honest ppl playing bruisers would react with something real (stall in general, it's the same tbh just stall feels wider to not just talk about the bruiser trinity)
Thanks for that, then I just hope things will be balanced.
Tbh I don't want CC to be the ultimate archetype of this game. The best we can have is all archetypes in good shapes with a very good balancing and the hard work will be done while drafting. Without wondering if bramble will proc on Tiamat which will make her transform and then OS my team while having 55k HP and BB

[dark harness]

You wont get anywhere trying to ragebait people. You just need to explain your side and convince people of why it needs to happen without getting upset or emotional. Make feedback posts. Participate in feedback forums when we collect them etc.

[sinful pivot]

all this feedback, but its mostly useless to talk about any nerfs cause they have made abundandly clear they arent nerfing units and just going the 'buff everyone' route. At best they try to fix amber-tia again or nerf a shell or two

[dark harness]

I mean realistically yes but tia and massiah are so blatently overtuned vs the rest of the crowd they have to bring them down because bringing up everyone to match is just a, i picked them i win

[sinful pivot]

but shotty, 'reset event wen???' is the big bad we must avoid

[dark harness]

Ive passed so much feedback to them about that whole situation. probably wont do it because of the money its tied to tbh

[rapid basin]

Tia true damage not interacting with defense is insane on its own, so is its ability to crit, so is her weird double turn shit, so is her amber transformation shit, and altogether she just shouldn't be what she is

Instead they will probably just kill amber

[wheat lynx]

ur right to an extent probably with things like massiah but we'll see

nerfing massiah would upset soooo many guild members and spenders

he's been the jack of all trades highlight dps

but talking through rta feedback touching him and tia while bringing more options up would be so nice rn

we'll see what they can figure out

[buoyant gust]

nerfing massiah means a reset event, i dont think there is a single player in this game that would complain about that. They pretty much locked themselves out of being able to properly balance the game with the whole philosophy of "no nerfs, only buffs" just to avoid pulling the reset trigger

[naive loom]

Just nerf tiamat and massiah so we can get reset event

[wheat lynx]

im aware

but even still doing a massiah nerf with a reset for him

it would be rocky

bc people put a lot of love into him and building him so they would have to be really smart about all the adjustments around it

and any flaws will be amplified

[dark harness]

You basically would need to nerf massiah and giga buff cleavers that people would already have somewhat invested (yeli is already pretty strong just not massiah level so like.... rosa and shit)

Maybe more buffs to yeli idk

Tia getting nerfed already would help other cleavers because of her damage share passive so if they do nerf both it would be very tricky to get the power scales right to be about even

[visual oak]

Tbh p5 mess in mythic doesnt even one shot most of the time cause people have p5 bruisers built, ive experienced this plenty of times with my mess alr. And beyo is always banned even if mess is not pre-banned so you dont get 2 s3s

And carrying off the fact that he doesnt one shot, lighthouse rin or chiaki just become really good counters and they are relatively low investment

And it takes 1/3 the resources to p5 mess compared to p5ing RGB unit

Maybe if ppl go 3 eff res then yea sure but with more cleansers coming up and shells that allow cutting, they opt for 1/2 eff res

[dark harness]

thats because most people swapped to HP rather than res. A good massiah with the proper team still will cleave any defense or team regardless of res to hp ratio

especially if they nerf amber instead of nerfing characters

[dark harness]

Dorothy the wisher is being used because shes basically just second beyontin

Shes been drafted against me about 5 times this season

Especially with aya

[visual oak]

Dorothy only resets 1 turn skill cooldown so he doesnt get s3 right away

Also i dont see her most drafts in the top 300 ladder anyways

My point is that as a mess player, it is more difficult to p5 an LD unit and that as more units go to p5, mess one shot capabilities decreases quite significantly as well

Ofc that means u need to draft better which is fair cause the game is about drafting

[dark harness]

Yeah im 100% down to get an LD bruiser so i can have the struggle of P5ing him

[visual oak]

I mean im not sure abt how much u whale, i only buy monthly packs and pass lol

And im saying its just more difficult to p5 him compared to tiamat, rahu, holden

[dark harness]

If im being realistic I really hope that they change massiah to not ignore passives but he can ignore 100% of defense. That way HP stacking and shields would be way more effective but he also would have counterplay with viper, tia, veronika, etc. Give him a job in the cleaver line up to ignore defense. Make rosa do more damage the less defense they have or something

AKA give everyone massiahs damage in their ideal settings but let them have counterplay

[visual oak]

Im ok with that, as long as that is accompanied with changes to tiamat and rahu as well👍 👍 👍

[dark harness]

oh yeah 100% these changes would be accompanied with the amber change and bruiser nerfs whatever they are if any

[jolly ember]

can u guys nerf rilmocha so i can get a reset for her

[frozen compass]

So except with borgne how cleaver can counter viper or veronika ? Nerf massiah in this way you are just killing cleave which in a very bad shape now

I don't understand why you are all talking about massiah while there is a ton of other unit or sets that should be nerfed or buffed before

[visual oak]

Actually i take back my word lol. Max prowess messiah LD ssr cant even kill an SR, with atk buff and freya debuff. This happens pretty frequently too. I understand thats cause these SRs are probably built on tons of HP (then again rin is probably built on def). But it just shows that its easy to counter cleave, even messiah at p5. Imagine those ppl who dont have him at p5

Maybe people will say pivot to cc, but that means having 1 unit for cc and 1 unit to strip, and enemy just gotta ban one of them for it to not work.
If u ban the strip, the cc unit aint gonna land anything on ur healer/cleanser with bulwark.

Also dont forget, we basically got 2 lattice this week, how to pivot to cc when we cant even build them.

[violet vault]

the first thing that comes to my mind is dont be so obvious with your drafting,1st freya 2nd tsuku is obviously a massiah lock,sometimes 2nd turns can adapt going all hp units with a giga healer and maybe clutch a win

[visual oak]

Im gonna lock my dps in the 3rd slot and they will know to pick them anyways (which makes sense since rin and chiaki were their 4th and 5th picks). So it didnt really matter, cause they only picked their cleave counters after i picked my messiah in 3rd slot.

The point is if even a p5 LD DPS messiah cant kill a SR, whos gonna do it? The fact such easy counters exist to a premium unit in the game whereas for units like tiamat u got t1 units like hein etc. Which still needs to go through multiple checks (landing debuff, not being cleansed) and needs gold lattice already shows quite some unbalance imo. People are gonna say tsutomo but just think abt all the set up he needs to work (it doesnt matter which units red rin/red chiaki are arnd for their countercleave to work), and if theres another bruiser on enemy team he is dead as well

Ive also seen turn 2 stealing messiah with amber and it actually works for them against turn 1 teams. The same cant really be done with turn 1 lol, i steal a tiamat or a healer they aint gonna be able to do the same thing alone against turn 2 teams (only units i c working are holden and vero).

Also, i wouldve won that game if the cutting isnt this absurd lol (30% is just ridiculous). Rin and chiaki just cut my rcachi who was already at 100%, thats just stupid. Forget the fact that they move 30% the fact that they can cut units alr at 100% is just dumb imo.

I know devs are taking feedback from RTA players but for godsake please please take feedback from an equal number of turn 1 and turn 2 players. Taking feedback from just top players isnt gonna end well cause most of them are turn 2 players

PS: idk where u got 45k hp, the rin had 35k hp and i did 25k damage to her. Thats abt 66% of hp dmg done to her, quite insane that mess can only do that much to a defense scaling SR when he is capped out tbh (with atk buff and freya's nightmare on her as well)

[violet vault]

oh no the aoe ld cant kill a 45k hp each with the anti cleave set with just an atk buff....this game sucks

[chilly veldt]

The horror playing this on lower elo without ban protection

[grave sorrel]

fr tho ngl, getting to diamond is the most unfun experience lol

[versed sage]

Wow u finally realised the game suck

[hazy burrow]

While the bruiser with an anicleave set can one shot the cleaver with a simple s1. Yes sir, working as intended.

Bruiser damage should be reduced by 50% at least. They cannot be tanks and deal the same or more damage than glass cannon atk dps on full damage set and shell while only using defensive sets and shells

[crimson coyote]

A tiamat just almost one shot my 22k mio with counter in fearless arena

Watch this full , her amber

It wasn't 22k it was 27k

A brusier can deal 27k damage with S1 on counter but a pure cleave dps can't kill a brusier

A single target dps should be able to kill any unit even though bb , we need a Straze in this game

That snipe one brusier no matter how tanky it is ,

Because in this game people pick one dps and 3 healers

Gigabyte turn meter push should be reduced,that one shell is ruining my 3 revelation setup with tsukiomi 😂😂 ( this is for fun don't take it seriously he is a good counter to rev playstyle)

[hazy burrow]

A pure single target dps like liliam on full damage cannot one shot a bruiser but if the bruiser counterattacks or uses his s1 she is oneshotted. If you build liliam as a bruiser on bloodbath she hits like wet noodles but still gets killed in 2 s1. Bruiser damage is absurd. It should be heavily reduced

[tranquil sparrow]

“Just cc her” they said

[buoyant gust]

its just not really that easy tho. If you reduce bruiser damage, bruiser mirros became the same thing people hated about the initial bruiser meta of every match just taking 15 minutes because nobody can kill eachother. If you reduce tankiness as a result to fix that, then cleave just becomes the only viable way to play, so cleave damage as a result would have to be nerfed
then are we are essentially back to square one, theres has to be a more clever way to go about it

[hazy burrow]

This gets solved by also increasing healing speed decay so after 6-8 turns healing is irrelevant and bruisers can kill each other. In cleave vs bruiser combat will be over in 3-4 turns so it is still fine

[buoyant gust]

hard to say if it would solve it or just remove healers out of the matchup entirely like it mostly alredy is with how aggro everyone plays the matchup now

[chilly veldt]

Thats a cap because bruiser mirror can gather rage fast enough to reach at 50 turn the healer not healing anymore

It goes even faster if 1 of the bruiser pick plume

[buoyant gust]

50 rounds takes a long ass time, turn timer does not get any lower no matter how fast the units move, thats what makes it long

[crimson coyote]

Do we care you guys want to play long game and pick 3 healers to get into frenzy , why do we have to suffer

No game will be that long if brusier players don't pick 2-3 healers in every game with one dps

If you are picking 3 healers it means you want to play long game until frenzy comes into effect

[chilly veldt]

not really....especially when you have those reaper and gigabyte...and its on you really for picking like triple healer

and most healer already lose their heal on 35 turn...only fuqui and lingluo(when you stack bunch of buff) that heal alot

or bring fkin heinrich,you guys are the one who asking people to pivot or smth

[buoyant gust]

nodobyds talking about 3 healers, even now you can sustain almost all dps in a mirror even againts 2-3 dps units with 1 healer until the burst windows show and make that strat unviable. just simply nerfing bruiser damage makes every bruiser mirror last 15 minutes no matter what gets picked

[chilly veldt]

go pivot cc/debuffer...like how bruiser say to cleaver

[buoyant gust]

again i dont think you understand how time works, units moving at 1000 speed and 5 speed takes just a long gameplay vise because only time that is used in a match is the time you pick your actions

[chilly veldt]

again just pivot to unit that has anti heal like heinrich/mio/batsby...you can even put BB on them,bruiser player tell other people to pivot,now you guys can try it too

[buoyant gust]

sure just give me the lattice and im in

[chilly veldt]

its not me who first told other player to pivot...ask those guys to give you lattice and shell

[buoyant gust]

its not me who told you to pivot either, im just telling you that the problem is a lot more nuanced than that

[chilly veldt]

all i see here is just bruiser dont want to get dmg nerfed because their investment will be waste

[maiden forge]

Why do you come in and say the same thing despite nearly everyone in the thread advocating for some type of damage nerf on problem bruiser units 😭.

Why the weird playstyle typecasting, it’s not constructive to conversation 😭

[quaint locust]

Buff hp/def scaling bruisers so liliam t2 wont work

[chilly veldt]

yea they need to buff them more tbh so they 1 shot the non hp/def scaling unit on BB...the game look better that way

[fading bison]

im still hoping that they implement that if both ppl run 4 bloodbath units on their team that their rta points get reset to 0
it would be a game of chicken and ppl have to get sum creative picks

[quaint locust]

Also implement if more than 1 unit is higher than 320 reset rta point to 0

[fading bison]

sure they need to be 340+ anyways

[summer geyser]

When reading some ppl here, the game should just be :
Get the speed = one tap the whole team ur against

And they feel good with that type of game

[fading bison]

i mean speed is the hardest to get u can run bloodbath with subpar stats and perform way better than speed with perfect stats

[summer geyser]

So the luckiest should be the one who won everything ?

[fading bison]

thats how gachas work or the 1 with the most money

nah enuf ragebait :)
the real problem is that units on bloodbath can still do too much dmg and the bb effect is overtuned
it feels like most units in the game are somehow overtuned it would be great if units wouldnt start with 150% crit dmg but have different values depending on role so for example atk dps keep 150 tanks like tia get like 50-70 to start ect also we need a real tank role

my solution would be to nerf bloodbath but introduce real tank characters on 2nd thought so turn 2 can still live through cleave but need to use 1 pick to do it

[visual oak]

Speed already has plenty of counters with the amount of cutting mechanics they are introducing, its so much easier to cut after enemy makes 1st move now, which is already such a pain for the enemy

S0 - buff rahu, buff holden
S1 - nerf codex nerf kaz release reaper steps, buff alicorn

New units:
Yeli - doesnt do dmg for sht in pvp not against p5 bb units
Holden - AOE strip, atk down, eff res down, ST skill reset and atk bar push down bruiser
Hoyan - counter non-mass cleave
Fuqiu - best bruiser mirror healer
Nahor - very good cc now
Liliam - counter to cc
Ninfoniel - takes up spot of pusher, not the best for cleave, not used much
Batsby - requires set up, not the best for cleave
Plume - very good for both set ups, however was marketed to be for cleave and cc as a solution against turn 2 comps at first
Aya - Great for both t1 ans t2
Kokardi - good for bruiser mirror

Just looks like a lot of bias towards turn 2 imo. Somehow every unit fits into turn 2 cause of bloodbath but it doesnt work the other way arnd

U literally just gotta 4th and 5th pick chiaki and rin on lighthouse to counter someone cleaving. If they pivot to cc on 4th and 5th pick, you just gotta ban either the stripper or the stun. They need to start introducing good options purely meant for turn 1, and i feel like how overtuned bb is is preventing that. Even my p5 mess only does 65% dmg to a rin and chiaki (with freya debuff on them and atk buff on mess) and i doubt many ppl have a p5 mess, BB shld be nerfed.

When u look at the leaderboards in RTA and you mostly see rahu/tiamat + fuqiu + another healer everywhere, i feel its quite clear that there is no diversity in the meta and one playstyle stems above the others.

PS: u cut if the enemy debuffs with reaper steps
U cut after enemy does chunk of damage with lighthouse
30% cut and u can cut past units at 100% as well

[fading bison]

also buff to alicorn

[fading bison]

my p5 rosa did 40% to an bb obol today XD

[cold apex]

very valid points.

just an aside, do you happen to use the exodia tsuki -> mass -> beyo -> mass combo? Just wondering cus i never seen this combo be cut

[fading bison]

in arena that works because u get the units u need in rta it rarely happens theres also no room for counterpicks as many top bruiser players have 1 speedunits in the 340s or a turn 2 messiah to contest

[cold apex]

i dream of the day that we no longer need to resort to stealing each others units and we have a large enough pool of units to just do clever counter picks 👍

[visual oak]

Beyo is always banned, ive used rcachi in place. Theres a pic in this thread. He was at 100% and got cut by lighthouse rin and chiaki (there was no plume on enemy team)

Also yes, enemy just needs to all in 1 fast unit to speed contest with turn 1 which spreads speed over multiple units. A turn 1 team having a bloodbath unit aint gonna work the same

[fading bison]

and the worst part is that their speed contest is on double speed strive amber with max dmg reduction on slot 3
cut after mass 1 (man i hate the slowmode)

[cold apex]

if you could, where do they cut you in the sequence?

tsuki -> mass -> beyo/rcachi -> mass

[visual oak]

Cut after mass, happens all the time

Even without lighthouse
With strive,gigabyte,fuqiu/ plume, its easy to get cut

[cold apex]

thanks, maybe i am just too slow or them too fast

[visual oak]

I dont think they are too fast. I got 340 tsuki on bulwark getting cut by 240 unit on reaper by strive after freya does s3 (on etherena defence)

I had confirmed the shell and matrix and speed of enemy as they are my guildie

[fading bison]

also if u somehow dont get mess prebaned and get a tsuki + a 330+ beyo that doesnt get cut ull be put on a list and every turn 2 player will snipe u with perfect info like theyre a collective hivemind

[cold apex]

sometimes my 262 spd red rin with a lighthouse+strive and my then 281 spd red chiaki dont cut between that exodia tsuki+beyo+mass build

what could be happening there you guys think?

@visual oak why dont i just ban pre ban massiah?

[visual oak]

Hmm idk then. Usually u ban beyo tho, why no ban beyo

A lot of ppl actually dont have rcachi/dorothy built

Cause mess in 3rd slot or he is pre-banned

[fading bison]

nah mess is prebaned

[cold apex]

im not sure what that guy's secret is either. but if i were you i would be seeking them out for advice

[visual oak]

Theres no secret? Which guys secret?
Beyo is literally always banned. And a rin or chiaki on lighthouse will cut

Maybe ur just having an issue idk, just build rin and chiaki on lighthouse and get them ready for 4th and 5th pick

U barely see mess in the leaderboards cause he is pre banned

[cold apex]

i ban him too because myself and the rest of the rta discord havent figured out a way to counter that combo. NOT YET. but we cant pretend here we have tested the game 100% and have 100% figured out the game

[visual oak]

BUMP in case this gets overlooked, i have another long message with other points and a visual before this as well

Speed already has plenty of counters with the amount of cutting mechanics they are introducing, its so much easier to cut after enemy makes 1st move now, which is already such a pain for the enemy

S0 - buff rahu, buff holden
S1 - nerf codex nerf kaz release reaper steps, buff alicorn

New units:
Yeli - doesnt do dmg for sht in pvp not against p5 bb units
Holden - AOE strip, atk down, eff res down, ST skill reset and atk bar push down bruiser
Hoyan - counter non-mass cleave
Fuqiu - best bruiser mirror healer
Nahor - very good cc now
Liliam - counter to cc
Ninfoniel - takes up spot of pusher, not the best for cleave, not used much
Batsby - requires set up, not the best for cleave
Plume - very good for both set ups, however was marketed to be for cleave and cc as a solution against turn 2 comps at first
Aya - Great for both t1 ans t2
Kokardi - good for bruiser mirror

Just looks like a lot of bias towards turn 2 imo. Somehow every unit fits into turn 2 cause of bloodbath but it doesnt work the other way arnd

U literally just gotta 4th and 5th pick chiaki and rin on lighthouse to counter someone cleaving. If they pivot to cc on 4th and 5th pick, you just gotta ban either the stripper or the stun. They need to start introducing good options purely meant for turn 1, and i feel like how overtuned bb is is preventing that. Even my p5 mess only does 65% dmg to a rin and chiaki (with freya debuff on them and atk buff on mess) and i doubt many ppl have a p5 mess, BB shld be nerfed.

When u look at the leaderboards in RTA and you mostly see rahu/tiamat + fuqiu + another healer everywhere, i feel its quite clear that there is no diversity in the meta and one playstyle stems above the others.

PS: u cut if the enemy debuffs with reaper steps
U cut after enemy does chunk of damage with lighthouse
30% cut and u can cut past units at 100% as well

[cold apex]

brother i back read all the messages in this post so no need to do this crazy shit again lmao

[fading bison]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWCLI7lXEdI

[cold apex]

well ive been trying to upgrade my speed on rin and chiaki since august when i got 1 shotted by this team. When i reach 300 spd without them dying to massiah's ult maybe things will change 😂

good luck to both of us

[summer geyser]

And then u realize that just a mio cut heals, or any CC just fuck up the beyontin tsuki mass combo so ur Chiaki/red rin or anything else on lighthouse is just useless

[visual oak]

This point is a counter to what ur saying btw

[fading bison]

i mean at that point the drafting wouldve been so bad that the loss would be 100% deserved

[crimson coyote]

Just play my playstyle everything on revelation and hope opponent don't pick 2 gigabyte healer and they don't steal tsuki or ban her

I was hardstuck on 2500 then I regear everything on revelation then I got mythic in 2 days

[fading bison]

im almost at the point where i just make a 350 aya and 350 doki and go full rev as well

[crimson coyote]

Ya for that you need speed , I have my mio and tsuki around 345 speed and my lily is on bluark 334speed

[crimson coyote]

350 aya is a bit crazy because her base speed is 121

[vivid yacht]

This got to be joke right 😭😭😭

[humble iris]

Reaper aya ban protect is actually the bane of my existence, devil's work

[robust oracle]

Where ?

[heavy oar]

"Yeli - doesnt do dmg for sht in pvp not against p5 bb units" crap like this is why it's impossible to seriously engage in a conversation here

[visual oak]

The thing is its so much easier to p5 a bruiser than it is to p5 yeli

Its a perfectly sound argument, since a yeli of same prowess as bruiser aint gonna kill the bruiser, and it takes 3x the amt of resources to max a yeli compared to a bruiser.

I didnt think i would have to explain this step by step, but hope u understand👍

[heavy oar]

do you play RTA?

[drifting thistle]

He is already finished at top rank day 1 btw

[wheat lynx]

none of this was overlooked dont worry

[maiden forge]

i think biggest problem is that a lot of cleaves rely solely on a “buff the king” cleave. which is so ass-backwards to me. Like in other games i play like this, you would never solo dps a cleave. You’d have a dps obol, and a dps nahor, etc etc. Similar to a rev-style cleave.

Cleave still needs more options, but the single dps buff with no def break expecting to burst through everything is a very weird mentality i only find in this game

[visual oak]

👍 👍

[visual oak]

Thank you very much, appreciate it

[heavy oar]

ok so ure just being malicious when you said yeli does do no dmg against p5 bruisers

[visual oak]

Ive already said my piece with 2 long messages explaining a lot of points along with a visual showing a p5 mess damage as well, feel free to say whatever you want.

Im not gonna turn this toxic, so go ahead and say whatever you want buddy

[normal jungle]

but he was right tho, its easier to p5 bruisers because all of them are rgb compared to ld cleavers

[bright sapphire]

True

[heavy oar]

for the record my p5 holden got clean one shot by a yeli eariler today and spreading staright up misinformation is worse than being toxic like ure post earlier which is full of lies

[visual oak]

Sure👍

[maiden forge]

Yeli is pretty balanced as a cleave unit imo. Maybe blue rin should do more damage based off of spd diff (increase the multiplier per tick).

I’m all for conditional dps having a busted interaction, like if mass had X% atk over opponents, he ignores additional defense etc etc

[bright sapphire]

I mean, the single question of “do you play RTA?” already shows your lack of willingness to actually listen to someone else’s perspective on the game. You’re not engaging in a real discussion, you’re just dismissing any view that doesn’t align with your own bias and acting like everything else is “misinformation.”

Broken has researched and presented actual evidence to support their points, yet all you’ve done is throw out empty statements without any concrete proof to back them up. This isn’t about who plays more or less RTA, it’s about understanding balance properly. the discussion about L/D cleavers being “OP” isn’t that simple. It was already pointed out earlier that they’re significantly harder to Prowess 5 because they’re Light/Dark units, unlike bruisers who are RGB and much easier to build up. Ignoring that crucial factor just proves you’re not interested in a balanced debate, you just want to be right.

[wheat lynx]

fair criticism

[heavy oar]

when you see a post that is full of misinformation where you don't know where to start you have to question if the otherside actually play the RTA mode

[wheat lynx]

is it misinformation if the majority of the mythic rta players are sharing very similar feedback

[maiden forge]

Ld cleave being much harder to prowess makes sense imo. Cleave is almost always gated for spenders at the very top level, that’s how it stays “balanced” and for people to keep spending.

If cleave was super accessible and easy to p5, it’d be extremely spd-gated.

Bruisers SHOULD be easier to prowess because realistically, you’re investing in significantly more units to counter, counterpick, etc etc. And in bruiser mirrors prowess, module depth, targeting are what edges out victories most consistently.

I actually don’t think that’s it’s a problem that heavily-invested bruisers on tank sets with reductions and high gear reqs (at top end) are not dying to single dps cleaves.

So the solution is more dps (preferably single target) to be introduced to the game.

[rapid basin]

The majority of mythic RTA players are claiming that p5 Massiah can't kill anything?

[heavy oar]

I have never seen someone say yeli does no dmg against p5 bruisers and that guy got mythic day 1 which means he was slapping bruisers left and right and he comes here to say this crap

[wheat lynx]

im talking about this @rapid basin

cleave revolves around massiah

t2 just has so many options rn

cleave only has massiah

yeli does not have enough impact

[bright sapphire]

Yeah, having it revolve only around Massiah becomes an issue, and Yeli isn't enough of a threat compared to Massiah. Rarely you would see people volunteering to pre-ban Yeli instead of pre-ban Massiah in Mythic+.

I don't even think they'd pre-ban Yeli.

[rapid basin]

I've seen Yelis one-shot Bread's Holden, Sania, etc

Not being priority ban doesn't mean worthless

[maiden forge]

They have more options, but they rely on single dps cleaves, a lot of the double dps cleaves seem to be more flexible. Like yeli/rosa rosa/cc batsby/cc. Cc cleave in general. Snail cleave.

At a certain point.. massiah cleavers are running the same draft over and over, it’s been 100% figured out and people stack more damage reductions to counter it if they’re letting him through etc.

T2 also has more options because we actually steal the draft to make it work for us.

Rahu can do a brick of aoe damage, but no cleaver steals to do a rahu/freya cleave or nobody steals tiamat to do a tiamat taunt setup etc.

Some of it is lack of options, but honestly a lot of it also seems players being inflexible on their gameplan

[bright sapphire]

Yeah okay that's fair, but the initial discussion was that cleave only revolves around Massiah and, sure Yeli. And not a lot of other options compared to bruisers. Which is why Illyeus pointed out that it'd be nice to have more dps options

[rapid basin]

I'm not arguing against options being needed at all for the record, the more the merrier, I'm just not convinced by the strength of these claims that it's truly ONLY Massiah

[bright sapphire]

Valid

[jolly ember]

you ban a bruisers tiamat like bruisers ban massiah

[bright sapphire]

You haven't been paying attention to other responses, aren't you

[visual oak]

Also this msg, with a visual and a longer explanation with some points right below it

[wheat lynx]

yeah the cleavers just dont have as many drafting options at the end of the day, and draft is really important so when one strat has way more flexibility to counter just from draft alone it's tough to argue one strategy doesn't need more options

just cant make t1 speedfest cleave or game ruined

need balance in the middle

and you're not wrong about being inflexible on gameplay for sure, but idk if it means this stuff doesnt need to be pushed yet

[cosmic crown]

for further information and for future ppl interested in sharing good data, please know that this Qadmus doesn't know his game. No offense, Broken was right, it's not because your holden is low even P5 that you have the ultimate truth.

[frozen compass]

Not true, every cleavers lock massiah or yeli in t3 and pick a sub dps can be borgne or freya rev. The issue is when the first dps is playing, the chiaki or rin will cut with lighthouse and we can't comeback after this. With repear we can't pivot cc efficiency now. So we just tank the meta now in the hope to get a big change or a new unit who will make cleave great again.

[heavy oar]

Explain to me how cleave players exist in top 20 when mass is perma banned

[humble iris]

I think there's alot of compounding issues atm that all feed into each other, massiah is too strong, rahu and tiamat do way too much damage for bruisers, and healing throughput is also too high, I absolutely despise the codex nerf from the patch obviously from my previous responses in this thread, but I can also admit it was insanely toxic that I could hold players hostage infinitely with pure cc drafts

Think a simple change to address some of the issues without directly nerfing units themselves is put a pvp only condition on bloodbath that reduces throughput (dmg/healing done) then maybe deal with massiah individually afterwards, gives breathing room to some other cleavers if healers cant full top off the team in 1 s3 and units dont get 1 tapped by tiamat in return, I dont think itd have any effect on bruiser mirrors either, or just bite the bullet and nerf the overtuned ssr units and give us a reset

[wheat lynx]

humble 😆

bro reformed

[humble iris]

Lmfao yea, got back in mythic last week still running cc so most of my rage subsided about codex lolol

[rapid basin]

I'm iffy on Rahu because he needs to stack to become truly insane and I think that's a relatively healthy gate, even if he can pop off early due to RNG

[normal jungle]

yeah biggest offender on bruiser side is tia, dmg on s1 is insane

[humble iris]

Maybe shift some more of his dmg into wrath stacks, so his ramps stronger but base is weaker, same for tiamat her base form s1 just hits too hard, think dragon dmg is fine

[rapid basin]

If Lily didn't exist I'd agree, but I think twin tricked dragon damage shouldn't happen Lily is a whole other can of worms though

[humble iris]

Yea 100%, everythings intertwined, like if you nerf the damage reduction on bloodbath the other cleave units can now thrive, but now massiash 1 shots everything without setup, a few overtuned units are just ruining balance for everything else, and it cant really get fixed if they refuse to nerf the outliers, the bandaid fixes to shells/gear will only go so far

[heavy oar]

The issue is fully latticed rahu stacks way too fast

He usually gets 2 stacks before he gets his turn and then after ult he's at 8+ and nearly one shotting bb units it's too much

[grave sorrel]

balance team also seem very scared to like directly nerf/adjust SSRs for whatever reason. so far it's only shells + SR and R nerfs (unless u count Rosa's s1 pushback nerf after cbt3)

[glossy gale]

We're talking about the Yeli unit? I dont even pick her anymore shes so unbelievably bad

[wheat lynx]

top cleaver has spoken

@glossy gale did u ever add anything to ur lil doc

i included it in mine just for diff perspectives

[fading bison]

Qadmus what does ur holden look like if he gets 1 tapped by yeli he might have to few hp compared to def cause harvest becomes even more potent if u have nearly no hp% on ur gear

[tardy stump]

fix amber wth

[heavy oar]

My guy casually posting tia getting one shot in this cleave doom post thread lmao

[crimson coyote]

Thats a fake Tiamat

[fading bison]

i mean tias are usually decently squishy against a good dps due to the dmg share and hp crit crit dmg build many ppl opt for

[heavy oar]

Nah tia is the bulkiest bruiser but yeah that interaction with Amber is bs

[tardy stump]

but hp lock to full hp doesnt make sense does it

[maiden forge]

your celince shouldve moved in front of the liliam tbh. Or you should have hit someone else. Why draft celince if you’re gonna ignore her best use in that draft 😭

[fading bison]

its sadly just how amber works locked hp gets recovered as if the unit was revived

[tardy stump]

i lack gear to make my celince 350 sadly

[fading bison]

man i need celince and beyontin to be in the next wishbinder so i can stach the box away for months till i pull either and can take the other

[tardy stump]

tiamat transforming through amber just doesnt make sense to me, call me selfish or what idc.

[heavy oar]

It's total bs and I abuse her

[fading bison]

can 1 of the bruisers try val vero ling xiada/cock and make the whole team invince by using val s2 on vero and spreading it?
i kinda want some1 to try it but i dont have xiada nor coq built and my vero doesnt have the necessary cubes

[heavy oar]

Tbh I think you should just ban her if u wanna cleave unless u can secure hein/mio

[tardy stump]

probably. we have to deal with the cards we are dealt

[maiden forge]

No you boosted liliam instead of celince is what im saying. when celince was an insta win ngl. Liliam wasnt. Or use liliam to reduce sania healing so you coukd kill with celince

[heavy oar]

It's similar with mass you just have to ban it which is why both tia and mass should get nerfed imo

[maiden forge]

yes, i’ve done this. too much setup, super impractical

[fading bison]

ye might be viable in the etherena bruiser mirror but 1 good counterpick can shaft the draft and drafting val is only valid as a pick 5 counterpick (curse the ppl that put my guy hein on bloodbath grrr)

[dark harness]

[acoustic bough]

Looks like you got a shit holden if yeli without any debuffs can one shot ur holden,maybe farm better gear for holden. Yeli damage especially ones without dupes cant one shot even a massiah if they are built on decent spd.
Also whats with this "Do you play rta?" Mentality when criticism is given.

[nimble sonnet]

I dont think he has bloodbath team. So he was about to be one shot by Tia into liliam

[tranquil sparrow]

Can’t Celince block the transform? Or is that not a passive

[acoustic bough]

Do i need to write mythic finisher next to my name or my guild name and mythic player in my bio every time to give my opinion lmao.

[chilly veldt]

celice will prevent tia get her stack it sems

[maiden forge]

she blocks transform and stops her from critting.

[quaint locust]

You have to be top 200 to give an opinion

[nimble sonnet]

"Stops"

[heavy oar]

"Yeli damage especially without dupes cant one shot even a massiah if they are built on decent speed" you absolute fking clown

and then you find it outrageous why I wonder if ppl like you ever touched the RTA mode

[acoustic bough]

Buddy i saw your comment earlier asking someone to explain why some cleavers are in the top
It doesnt take a genius to figure out that they have the dupe, lattice and gear difference, thats why they are at the top
Calling me a clown when you asking stupid questions like that makes you a bigger clown lmao

[heavy oar]

You literally said yeli with decent speed can't kill mass

[acoustic bough]

Yeah and im not wrong tho, without set bonus yeli on something like 270 spd doesnt kill even a massiah with some bulk
maybe farm better bb gear or have immunity on your units

[heavy oar]

Define "some bulk"

[acoustic bough]

This yeli is no dupe and fails to kill massiah consistenly on her aoe s3
You peeps yapping about yeli damage have never used her if you think her damage is good without dupes

[heavy oar]

and you didn't even mention bulky build when you said "a mass" which is 99% built with count

[crimson coyote]

This type of player exist

But he quit because he knows he ain't winning against liliam hp lock

This game let you fight same player back to back and I hate that because they either stole my pick or preban them

[heavy oar]

and I'm not against anyone giving their opinion even if they are at iron but when someone keeps spewing straight misinformation you have to question if they even play the mode at all

[acoustic bough]

[heavy oar]

The guy who said yeli can't kill mass is calling me a clown now lmao

[acoustic bough]

Its misinformation when it doesnt align to your bias, got it.

[heavy oar]

What bias RTA from gold up to top 20 is full of cleave/cc mainly using yeli as main dmg

[toxic lagoon]

I wont advocate for yeli being good, bc i have her invested and she disappoints me, but she will still kill non bloodbath untis without fail on proper stats even on swift. Cdmg > atk for rightside esp after rev nerf. The same is true if i put yeli on bloodbath. damage overall is too high against non bb units.

[chilly veldt]

atleast you can snipe those kind of unit with faster unit since they stacking atk% and cdmg...meanwhile the other

[quaint locust]

Imagine not using yeli jackal

[visual oak]

I posted a picture of a p5 mass only doing 66% dmg to red rin, a defense scaling SR, with atk buff on him and freya nightmare debuff on her btw. This happens quite frequently as well.

I dont think mess dmg needs to be debuffed. As more people p5 their bruisers they will realize his dmg is fine lol. Thats just how cracked bloodbath is. Most people dont even have a p5 mess

Similarly a p5 yeli isnt doing much to a p5 bruiser.

[glass flower]

Have you considered that even though your mass is p5, his stats are still garbage because your gear is bad?

[visual oak]

400% crit dmg 3.6k atk👍 👍

Would appreciate you asking for my stats before saying my gear is bad or his stats are garbage so that we can be less toxic😊

[chilly veldt]

400 cd is garbage?

[crimson coyote]

You need 4000 cd and 36k attack , he is right your stats are garbage

P5 is only 10% damage increase, you need 100% it's definitely garbage

[glass flower]

I don’t know what to tell ya buddy, there’s a reason why massiah is pre banned a lot in high ladder, if your massiah is hitting like a wet noodle then it’s clearly a you problem 🙂

[visual oak]

Whatever makes you happy 👍

Though im quite sure its not a me problem given all the support my points have had from others, and i can 100% vouch it aint just my mess hitting like that in mythic or that when mess is prebanned there aint any decent options for cleave

But, if saying whatever you want makes you satisfied, please go ahead.

[glass flower]

Thanks homie, I am pretty happy these days 🙂

[quaint locust]

I dont get the point of acting polite then use these kind of emojis man europeans are odd

[tawny canopy]

U sure they not Canadian?

[quaint locust]

i taste no maple syrup off em

[grave sorrel]

🤡 ♿

[austere vine]

These emojis mean sarcasm. Or imply an opposite of what was written before, so, can be interpreted as scorn

[toxic lagoon]

Everyone smiles so they can cope they will be heard before quitting. 🙂

[fading bison]

https://tenor.com/view/palomitas-eating-popcorn-popcorn-eat-chill-gif-17592961

[bright sapphire]

https://tenor.com/view/suzukiri-yumeko-movie-theater-movie-theater-gif-2220868968767721896

[cosmic crown]

We are so close to 2k coms, come on you still have some juice right. I mean stall is still absolutely unplayable in RTA come on guys 🤡

[cosmic crown]

No they did it GZRJGIOZRJGIZGJZ
"Raymerry is an HP-scaling attacking Animus. She builds stacks of the exclusive passive [Torment] whenever any unit on the battlefield takes damage. Upon reaching the maximum stacks of [Torment], she immediately unleashes her Ultimate, dealing AoE damage, applying [Vulnerable], and stealing Turn Meter. Combined with her Skill-1 that inflicts [Stun] and execution, she excels at suppressing foes."
THEY EVEN PUT THE TIAMAT BUILD WITH TOXIC EMBER IN IT SAME SET AHAHAHAAH. Alright folks, it's time to go to the next hyped gacha.

[chilly veldt]

[maiden forge]

PRAISE BE

[dark harness]

dont worry the healer also is an SR that has defense up

[maiden forge]

FINALLY A LIGHT BRUISER unit. But tbf she looks like she benefits t1 cc cleave a lot

[chilly veldt]

ahahaha just pivot CC guys

[cosmic crown]

Enjoy stall mirrors all your life

[vivid yacht]

Another brusier option and anti CC unit. Yayyy how balanced. 😁😁😁🤣🤣😒

[manic tinsel]

I mean if cleave and cc is not even an option now and it’s all bruiser… perfectly balanced!

[quick mauve]

I mean she looks good in cleave too if u kill something she can instantly ult

[sinful pivot]

the winning strat is to make your openers so weak they keep dying to the brambles and so she keeps ulting

[vivid yacht]

This cope. That space from other cleave CC she occupies

[quick mauve]

Ok

[quaint locust]

She can be used as t1 and t2 tho

[near belfry]

I guess T1 is already pretty strong if a tank unit that does another cleave that applies vulnerable and steals turn meter every time one of your squishy T1 units dies or that can be pushed up to then steal turn meter like a Mio and apply vulnerable for your cleave is considered not worth the space over another regular T1 unit.

[vivid yacht]

I dont understand what you wrote

[vivid yacht]

Hmmm i hope so? What will the comp and rotation look like?

[visual oak]

The thing is every unit is working for T2 whereas it aint the same for T1

If they had changed her to atk scaling it wouldve worked better for T1

[violet vault]

every unit ld has been mostly t1 favored and now the narrative is every unit works beter for t2 wtf are these takes

[naive loom]

so massiah, yeli, liliam, plume, is not for T1?

[vivid yacht]

T1 favorved? Doki doki plume lily. And liliam is t1 favored? Why does t2 use them do much??

[chilly veldt]

T1 favored?

[visual oak]

Yeli aint even good for pvp. Liliam is used by t1 and t2. Mess actually works for t2 against t1. Plume was introduced as a unit for cleave and cc but is used just as much by t2

The same thing cant be said for t2 units, u r never gonna place a healer or bruiser other than vero or holden in t1.

ALMOST every unit in t1 works in t2 teams against t1 teams but NOT the other way arnd

Man u look at the tournaments drafts and comments and its already clear that one playstyle is favoured, dont even have to listen to me😂

[near belfry]

big surprise, a niche playstyle of trying to instantly burst down your opponent can't use every unit, while a general playstyle of actually playing the game can use every unit.

[vivid yacht]

Niche, cc and cleave is niche?? 🤣🤣🤣 wake up! The is issue is the options cleave have is not as good as brusier. How many people are using xiada, rosa, bartsby, khloross etc their way up to mythic?

[near belfry]

it's a niche playstyle that's heavily supported in this game, but would be fun for nobody if it became the main way to play.

[vivid yacht]

Whats your definition of niche? Glad you agree it will be fun for no one if everyone plays bruiser which is what’s happening

[visual oak]

Thanks for the joke bro, had a good laugh😂

Didnt know cleave and cc was niche

[near belfry]

so you guys all think cleave and cc should be nerfed then

[visual oak]

YES THERE WAS SO MANYY CLEAVE AND CC DRAFTS IN THE TOURNAMENT

Bruh this guy gets funnier and funnier by the minute😂

Check my older messages ive laid out so many proper arguments but ive realised theres no point trying to speak sense to some people. Why am i even entertaining this ragebaiter

Nobody is drafting it cause turn 2 is just broken, not because cc and cleave is niche. Do you need a simpler explanation?

[near belfry]

wait so is it niche or not? If there was nobody drafting it that would make it niche

what even is T2? there's 20 different T2 playstyles, T2 is just playing the game without trying to kill your opponent instantly and also letting them get a chance to play.

[sinful pivot]

huh, he got you there

[near belfry]

ppl are so obsessed with the idea of T1 vs T2 in this game, it's like all black and white to them, but if you look at any other game like applying T1 to league it would be like if you draft a certain way in league the enemy nexus instantly explodes before your opponent can even make a move.

Yeah bloodbath is op, nobody will argue that and it's lame that you're forced into certain playstyles, but that's cause T1 is so oppressive in this game that it forces it.

[visual oak]

And people are so obsessed with making only one set of modules being superior to everything else

The game is at the point where it punishes you for taking initiative in any pvp, which is pretty dumb

Even if they increase variety for one playstyle, look at the tournament its the same units being used over and over again. Fuqiu first pick plus holden and tiamat enemy pick almost every single time. This variety isnt gonna improve with making one playstyle dominant while introducing more units for that playstyle, as we see that its still the same units being used. They need to work on balance, so we see more cleave and cc, which means more units in the match up

[sinful pivot]

its funny to see the lol reference when we are going T1 this and T1 that . BTW who do you support this worlds

[vivid yacht]

“Yeah BB is op”That right there sir. Creating units that scale of hp and stacking defense on them and letting dish out high damage, using amber and fortissimo to stall even more! while nerfing revelations, cc. Not giving reset to all those who invested in cleave to pivot is totally favoring on niche playstyle bruiser. The devs said the goal of the pvp was to have multiple playstyle counter each other.
Might as well just delete swiftrush from the game if its that useless and everyone should only farm BB

[visual oak]

And also releasing cracked SRs to counter playstyles is mad as well. Red rin, red chiaki, new cleansing healer as well. They literally shut down playstyles on their own. For instance, the moment u fail to kill anything with yeli (especially with how bad her damage is), red chiaki just cuts and heals everyone to full. Before you mention mess, check messages from me. Ive posted my mess stats and him failing to kill red rin defence scaling sr with atk buff on him and freya nightmare on her.

On the other hand, theres no SR unit that is as effective at countering bruiser comps. Hizuki reduces healing, but not enough to matter for faster teams and her petrify is only on one hit so its unreliable as well. Tsutomu works against tiamat, but he requires set up as well, and even if he kills one unit the rest will mess you over.

Red rin or red chiaki dont require set ups to counter cleave, they can literally be placed with any bruiser or healer to work

[vivid yacht]

I don’t even know why it’s an argument when it’s clearly proven tournament after tournament. And ranking after ranking

[near belfry]

When did I ever argue that T1 is too strong, I've been arguing this whole time that T1 as a playstyle is something niche, it's unusual for this game to have a playstyle where your opponent isn't even allowed to make a single move be this common.

[visual oak]

Aside from logical reasoning, yes you are right, just look at the latest drafts or tournaments. Speak a lot for themselves

Wdym single move. With all the cutting mechanics, most t2 teams get to move right after the first unit from t1 moves. 30% atk bar from lighthouse and reaper with strive, atk bar increasing from plume

What is unsual is to have a playstyle where you are almost punished everytime for taking the initative in a battle

[near belfry]

That's why it's a niche playstyle, it's easily countered, but if not countered it's unfun and you just lose on the spot. Everything you guys say just plays back into confirming that yes, T1 is indeed niche.

[vivid yacht]

Lilith is what? This new girl stun, liliam kills one per and stuns, taimat silences. They cc brusiers tio and brusiers use them. Brusiers use mio too.

[visual oak]

Bro still making jokes about niche😂

Literally every gacha, has cleave cc bruiser archetypes as the main

Na this guy is straight up ragebaiting. Got to stop entertaining people like this. Go and look at my history of messages, other than the relatively aggresive messages ive been sending, ive had lengthy messages with well established points. Though i doubt your open minded enough to read them

[gloomy breach]

[vivid yacht]

Facts.

[near belfry]

who cares about other gachas they all copy each other, play one where the best is T1 and all you do is farm the best speedgear then and hope your opponent doesn't have 6 units all faster than your fastest unit.

[visual oak]

Bro i already rebutted ur point before u sent it😂

Bro cant even bait properly

[vivid yacht]

Our argument more viable cleave option to balance the scale. Bro’s understanding is “so you’re saying everyone should cleave” 😩😩😩😩

[near belfry]

We forget this started with me saying that the new unit can be a viable cleave option to "balance the scale", you have turn meter steal, vulnerable and a nice source of extra aoe dmg that will cleave multiple as both your and the enemy units die. T1 players just have no imagination, they want an ld unit that does dispel and cc in the same skill and a 2nd Massiah in the game.

[visual oak]

Recommended matrix by ER devs themselves: Bloodbath😂

Clearly meant for longer games

I dont see whats wrong with strip and cc or a 2nd messiah. Messiah doesnt even do much damage in mythic rta, so much so that he doesnt kill a defence scaling sr btw.

Compared to the cracked kits bruisers have that literally lets them proc out of cc, cc and cleave have tame kits. Not that i expect points to get to you

You know you are proving me right right, cause it wasnt recommended yet plume fit in perfectly with bb which shows how op bb is😂
Bro like im dumbing down explanations and you just keep going 2 steps back.

I was in a dilemma whether u were ragebaiting but im assuming you are not that dumb, so now i know you are definitely ragebaiting

The same person saying no reasonable points will get to me was one who stopped being able to reply after i gave well rounded arguments with pictures and proof earlier in this thread btw

[near belfry]

ah yes I guess your argument earlier about all the T1 units that T2 can also use can just be thrown completely out of the window then cause the devs didn't recommend using bloodbath on Plume

just cause you say I'm proving you right doesn't make it true, I said Raymerry can be a good T1 unit to have in your arsenal, you refuse that cause the devs recommend bloodbath on her, so I guess T1 players can only follow recommended builds and going away from recommended builds is a skill only T2 players have.

[violet vault]

no reasonable points will ever get to this guy,hes already in his own bubble thinking hes always right,cc dead cleave dead ,id suggest to just ignore him

[gloomy breach]

are you talking to zirogh or referring to him?

[near belfry]

If you mean stuff like this, you would have won this if you did s2 on Lilith first so you don't push up the lighthouses and then batsby pushes up Massiah back and then you s3. So your screenshots are fights of you misplaying, interesting stuff. I'll just leave it here, had some good laughs with you.

[visual oak]

The thought process was for sure an LD P5 animus with defence ignore unit could kill an defence scaling SR with atk buff and freya debuff right? Guess not, thats how weak cleavers are at the moment. And thats how strong bb is. Ofc u wouldnt admit to that

Forget the lilith cant even kill SR defence scaling unit.. and then u got units like tiamat which one shot on an counter. Ppl be saying "so you just want cleave to oneshot everything" when bruisers are doing that way more i dont get it

Lilith on lighthouse too btw, so ur strategy just outta the window

As if the past few LD units dont perfectly fit into t2 teams as well

[near belfry]

Are you really that dumb you don't get what the play is even after I say it??? You use Massiah S2 on the Lilith, cmon now man, then Cachi gets to push Massiah back up without the lighthouses cutting and Massiah S3 kills Lilith, the only enemy threat.

[maiden forge]

I mean everyone agrees that t1 could use more snipe options but also I feel like some of the t1 invested people are just dooming and glooming for the sake of dooming and glooming.

Like earlier people were complaining about how much more expensive it was for their core dps to be LD ssrs and wanted more rgb options.. well it’s ld rotation time and they’re now mad that it isn’t another hard-dps option that they’re forced to P5.

It’s really bizarre to me. Like we all knew for the past month next ld was gonna probably be another healer, bruiser, or cc mix of the two.

[near belfry]

The fight could have been easily won by the Massiah player, but they chose to lose cause they felt they should have been able to oneshot.

[violet vault]

thought it was p obvious i was referring to the broken guy since i said cc and cleave dead and zirogh seems to be a t2 player with a brain from what ive read

[fading bison]

https://tenor.com/view/popcorn-eat-eating-watching-entertained-gif-4744683

[near belfry]

I'm actually mixed with stuff like p5 Massiah and Yeli, I just prefer the current meta over when both ppl were trying to first pick Lily, other person picks stuff like Mio and we just see who can push up their cleave unit the fastest. I also think this new unit will help T1 more than T2, though that partly depends on numbers, but T1 desperately needed a unit like this that helps everything you want in a T1 comp wiht turn meter steal and vulnerable + cleave dmg while having some staying power and preventing ambers from proccing with their execute.

[fading bison]

its all gonna be depending on the execute threshhold but its a problem for cleave that shes hp scaling cause u have t build pretty specific gear no 1 else benefits from what pisses me off is the sr character tho

[violet vault]

not sure i understood how the anti revive works,but she surely can be used by t1s,depending on her base speed and % s3 chances

[violet vault]

i'm not sure what specific gear she needs,as a t1 dont you just go all speed left cr cd hp right side,like maybe you need a shell with hp% instead of atk,but i dont see any investment needed ,like surely we still roll hp% on swift for t1s

[near belfry]

depends to what degree you have to care about the hp scaling, if her execute isn't affected by hp scaling just build eff acc for the turn meter steal and vulnerable and have her be like a 35k hp cc unit with the stun on her s1 as well. Of course if the turn meter steal is like 5% only it's a different matter.

[maiden forge]

I mean.. it’s good to have units with different scalings in cleave comps. Otherwise, you’re fighting over the same sets. That’s why bruiser players get more mileage out of module farming atm.
We can use efficient def%, atk%, hp%, res%, eff% equally, and there’s slightly less headache of trying to get copies of the same exact busted module.

Now cleave can use more of the good hp% sets they couldn’t use before

[fading bison]

nah ull most likely want her to be after the pushed up dps so she can s1 a low hp tia to get rid of her i can see her on tiger yin and going s1 or as a fast support

but well need to see the numbers and testing i personally like rays kit as a cc cleave player and detest sr doki

[near belfry]

well Tia usually doesn't get oneshot, but what if your opponent has even a single unit that does get oneshot, the Tia gets left at low hp, you oneshot like their Jackal Plume with your Massiah and then Tiamat just gets executed from the Raymerry automatic s3. the death prevention execute is attached to her passive and should work on her s3 as well.

[visual oak]

I think raymerry will be good for t1 as well, i dont argue against that. But the fact is that drafting is just becoming easier and easier for t2 because t2 can basically use every unit t1 uses against t1 so they can steal way more often. Conversely, t1 doesnt get much use out of stealing t2 units other than specific few units. There needs to be more t1 specific units or units that t2 just dont get too much use from stealing, so drafting is more fair. Perhaps we are at an early stage of the game and as more and more units come this will even out, however at the current stage t1 is at such a huge disadvantage which turns off people who invested into t1. Combined with the lack of lattice to pivot as well as no resets (im against resets too), this just becomes extremely frustrating for t1 players.

[rapid basin]

They hate hearing this king be careful

[visual oak]

Sure man will be more careful thanks👍

Ill make sure to post a dictionary definition of niche next time, instead just of showing my mess stats, prowess, and passives on him shell, and explaining how cc cleave and bruiser are the 3 main archetypes in gacha games😂

[rapid basin]

I was replying to Zirogh but you may have him blocked.

Incidentally if Raymerry counters Amber it'll be a terrible precedent for balance going forward. Setting aside whether Amber should be changed or not vs targeted interaction nerfs, doing it via specific unit releases is the worst possible option