Like wishing on a Monkey's Paw

[tough knoll]

Asking for changes with these devs is a joke. You can feel that their heart is not in it when they do these changes. They would fix things but in a malicious compliance kind of way. They always have to do it in a complicated or round about way rather than just give what the players want. Fucking Genie's wish with a catch. LMAO. I'm not even going to list these changes as its just beating a dead horse but you know which changes or "fix" these are.

[gilded raptor]

speedrun to eos

[upbeat burrow]

https://youtube.com/shorts/xUB-CYsjW5U?si=qN7uGGTHR0b-vDOp

reminds me of this video

genie is literally

fucking ER devs

"I want more reconfig chips!"

"ok, here's 120 more for shell story, but no more free pulls :)"

[civic jungle]

reminds me of path of exile. there was a time where the devs were going to run their game to the ground for their "vision".

[atomic star]

"U want a rengo nerf"
"ok here's a unit that kinda helps but doesn't"

[upbeat burrow]

my guess is they gave up, caved into whatever the community wanted, and now everyone is happy and path of exile is a wildly successful game

[civic jungle]

ya they did cave in eventually, but it was like after 2-3 leagues, and a league lasts for like 3 or so months

[upbeat burrow]

mm ic

[civic jungle]

they were already extremely successful and established

they just wanted to shake up the game. The lead designers had their own vision for how the game should be played and tried to force it on the players.

obviously the players were like "this is shit, throw it out" but as a company you don't invest months of game dev time and resources only to throw it out after 1 failed attempt so they fucked around a few more times.

[floral mortar]

the latest changes to the game seem to have been made based solely on KPI monitoring about what is failing to provide them revenue

not enough people buying module essence -> let's add a p2w module shop (except failing at that one too lmao)

people banking too many pulls -> start removing free to play ways of getting them from events

definitely not approaching it from a standpoint of "what would be the best way to improve the game currently"

[nova parrot]

These decisions are 100% being made by people not playing the game and just looking and spreadsheets

The feedback they're getting everywhere (here, Facebook, Reddit, YouTube) is not reaching the people making decisions at all, or they're just totally ignoring it

[floral mortar]

definitely deliberately ignoring it

i dont assume any sort of good faith on part of people actually making decisions on this game at this point

[upbeat burrow]

still think theyre trying to kill the game on global to prepare for CN launch lol

[floral mortar]

they have a higher financial incentive to black beacon the global playerbase than not black beacon them

because they need to add them to the common RTA pool but also give them stuff to catch up so they're not behind Global

so technically yes, they probably will kill EN even if it's not the stated goal of the "global" launch lol

collateral damage in favor of more revenue overall, basically

[dense night]

How many more threads do we need like this? Very productive.

[nova parrot]

1 thread expressing dissatisfaction doesn't hit anywhere near the same as 1000 threads expressing dissatisfaction. You have to know this, right?

[dense night]

It also makes sense to just upvote similar feedback threads and provide context there

[nova parrot]

Traffic exists bc people aren't hyper efficient at all times. Welcome to society

[floral mortar]

yeah seemed a bit of an unwarranted overreaction to me

otoh c is the only conduit for communication we have so i can understand it on some level

because he also gets all the pings & flak for decisions he had no hand in making, like the module shop revamp, where he came into the thread not knowing full details of it and then basically laughing at the absurdity of it with the players

not saying i fully excuse it but i understand overreacting sometimes

as an Inferno thread main, as long as the Inferno Hell Thread stays open until we hit 100k posts I'm happy

[magic crystal]

I understand his position too and I know people make mistakes. That's why I don't want to prolong it further but yeah, they do selective ignore our feedback that doesn't follow their narrative. Anyways, just don't expect too much and still have fun with the game.

At least the characters look good.

[nova parrot]

If they're keeping him that far out of the loop, it's really on him to be assertive and tell the organization what he needs

He's getting all the flak despite seemingly having no impact on things and no awareness on what's to come. Even if he has no impact, just seeing trash coming would at least give him time to prepare his thoughts / mentality for it

It sucks XD is doing him like this, but I think he could help himself by trying to get looped in on things (I realize it's possible he's trying and they're just not acknowledging his requests. I just wouldn't expect a company would ignore an employee and leave them out to dry like this)

[magic crystal]

He could be one of the devs and we just don't know that though.

[civic jungle]

i think they actually relayed our feedback quite effectively to the devs. The problem definitely lies with the design and developers. They've heard our feedback, they just want to solve it in their own way.

[floral mortar]

yeah it's interesting to see how out of the loop he seems to be with the development decisions regarding the game even though he's supposed to be pretty high up at least on the EN side of things

and being more in the know would help with not being the punching bag as much definitely

[nova parrot]

I'm not sure people doubt he's telling them things, I think the bigger problem is they're not really communicating much with him

[civic jungle]

nothing we can do about that then. honestly just another reason why everyone is ready to jump off this ship

[serene surge]

I’m waiting for Kaiju no 8

[civic jungle]

everyone i know is just waiting for the next thing to immediately cut etheria

[magic crystal]

Game is really great and have potential though.

I just never understand why they keep shooting themselves on the leg.

[civic jungle]

yup. I love the potential of the game as well.

[serene surge]

These devs has lost all trust honestly. I won’t spend even if my account falls behind at this point. It’s gonna take alot of redemption for me to even think about spending again. Lmao I got so mad yesterday with the drop of the character I went to silver and Blood to drop money😂😂😂

[civic jungle]

my friends stopped spending after yeli lol

[magic crystal]

I kinda stopped caring about the game about a month ago or so.

[floral mortar]

i played Silver & Blood for the first time yesterday and it was a fun change of pace to play an actually competently made game

[nova parrot]

Czn and star savior for me. They have that long to really change course

[heady wolf]

They won't

[serene surge]

Yeah it’s insane. They barely advertise but community is slowly growing and made more than this game which sponsored almost every content creators to advertise. They only spend to make money not to make game great.

[magic crystal]

I was actually one of the whiteknights you know. Back when it was first released and everyone doomposted it like crazy.

Then I found out the devs are full of lies

[nova parrot]

Yea, I'll be shocked if they do. Would be happy, but I'm not expecting it

[serene surge]

Everyone quickly realized and I don’t blame you. Beta was amazing.

[floral mortar]

i was impressed too, definitely one of the better gacha releases out this year

[heady wolf]

First week of release was good too

[nova parrot]

Most of the beta players are still around bc of how great it was. If the beta was like this this game would've been dead on arrival

[serene surge]

Only because we didn’t hit inferno til week 2💀

[heady wolf]

Then terra inferno buff and ssatania debacle we went lower and lower

Maybe they should have kept inferno till later

[serene surge]

Yep. What piss me off most is their false advertising.

[nova parrot]

They also quietly nerfed all income by 20-30%, coins data chips, despite some of the only negative feedback in beta was about the economy

[magic crystal]

Yeah. The early days I had really great expectation of the game. Even past through the ninja nerf s.sania and I was like, hey ssania nerf was deserved guys.

[nova parrot]

Just insane decisions

[magic crystal]

Then the dreamscape event happened.

They said they fixing the money issue and I was like what

[light hamlet]

[magic crystal]

300 gems for one key

[serene surge]

Yeah game was so hyped for me during launch. I spent 200 on 1st week then started seeing Devs true color and hasn’t spend since.

[magic crystal]

Yep. Same for me. I spent some to support the game.

But the devs showed their true colors

[floral mortar]

Dreamscape was only "good" in some terms, if you had high level teams which were able to both clear Abyss difficulty and get a high score on Lindelle, and full refreshed keys with gems every day

[heady wolf]

They consistently proved only one thing and that is that nothing besides RNG matters. Your time don't matter your feedback don't matter only RNG

[floral mortar]

if not, then the Dreamscape experience was this

[magic crystal]

Then after I realized their true color, I started noticing more and more shit that the devs pulled on us.

The latest announcement I already called it that it's a lot of empty promises and hot air. Then patchnote dropped. It's fake advertising all over again.

[serene surge]

Yeah I wasn’t hype anymore. It also looked mediocre and target seems to be whales. But even the whales are baffled😂😂

I wish this was released in CN side. The company would get so many death threats. Maybe they would listen that way.

Can’t wait to see this month revenue

[magic crystal]

I still want this game to flourish tbh. It has great potential. But if they do end up tanking on this month's revenue, pretty deserved tbh.

[civic jungle]

i think its safe to assume everyone wants the game to flourish. That's why we provide feedback to improve based on our experience.

[light hamlet]

@civic jungle True, but there's a way to deliver a feedback

Creating tons of feedback some the same topics isn't helping anyone

And doomposting, trashtalking isn't helping either

[heady wolf]

The only feedback that matters because it's the only feedback suits seem to care about

[magic crystal]

Leave google classroom out of this

[nova parrot]

Trash talking is bad, but doom posting is not. It's a big sign that people have been complaining about an issue, it's been ignored, and it continues to be an issue

Most people raise an issue, then doom post, then quit and absolutely trash the game wherever they can

[light hamlet]

I mean, when it's around 20% while the 80% rest is coherent why not

I'm pretty sure I could put all feedback post into 10 at most

3/4 feedback threads end up in conversation about everything and nothing

Then you expect us to come here, read each line between 2k messages when only 200 are about ER with real arguments

[heady wolf]

Who's expecting you to do what?

Are you a dev? Can you make any changes?

[light hamlet]

Relay the information ?

[nova parrot]

With how many people are here, this forum system discord offers really isn't a viable solution

If y'all want good feedback, you really should have a form set up where people can submit things without the discussion, because every thread that gets popular derails wildly

Leaving things as they are ensures you won't get good feedback to the devs, and runs a big risk of things getting ignored

[civic jungle]

i feel like they already have all the information they need. It's their design philosophy that won't let them address the problems in the way the players want

they know we want more etheria coins and chips, but they won't hand it to us because they want it to be scarce.

[nova parrot]

This mainly. They've acknowledged a majority of the issues. They're aware. They're just not fixing them

[light hamlet]

@civic jungle Perhaps, but that's another topic

[gilded raptor]

they removed 3 tickets to give us 120 chips config

[civic jungle]

or with the latest event, removing summons for chips. they want us to sacrifice something to get it, instead of getting more resources

[gilded raptor]

massive W move

[light hamlet]

@nova parrot I've already submitted this idea and waiting for approuval

[dense night]

This is a good idea, and maybe adding an in-depth in-game survey or something

[nova parrot]

Gl, hopefully it happens

There is some value in the discussions, but way too much noise to be practical. Even if you get terrible submissions, you should see common issues and ideas emerge which hopefully the devs will honestly consider and act on

[light hamlet]

@civic jungle They're trying something, they will see it won't work, situation will get worse and revert it back (At least I hope) and that's it

[heady wolf]

Ah yes devs are testing

Ppls patience

[upbeat burrow]

^

[light hamlet]

I already submitted an idea to make in-game survey about events etc so they'll get data directly from players in game and see what's their answer about news content, features, QoL blabla

We'll see if they take it or not

I mean, I don't mind that there are 3/5 troll thread where people can talk about whatever they want to relieve some stress, talk with their ER discord buddies etc

[crude vapor]

FAKE NEWS. GAME IS PERFECT. DEVS CANT DO WRONG. XD ARE THE BEST. GET GOOD IT'S A SKILL ISSUE. C WAS JUST PREACHING THE TRUTH YOU COULDNT HANDLE THAT YOUR FEEDBACK IS GARBAGE JUST LIKE THIS THREAD.

[light hamlet]

Although when you try to check every new thread from each categories and see 5 are the same, 3 are talking about something else that the topic itself

[nova parrot]

My impression is they keep you all way too distant from what's actually happening, and it just makes things incredibly frustrating for both sides here

[light hamlet]

Well we aren't part of the company so we don't have any formation regarding most stuff going on, it's their choice, I won't fight over it

[nova parrot]

Honestly threads should be in slow mode by default, maybe 5-10 mins. That would help you all so much, and would kill off a lot of the toxicity these threads create

Or even longer tbh

[nova parrot]

Understood, but people do assume Jack is in the office next door to you

[light hamlet]

France - China pretty far though

[left ermine]

https://tenor.com/view/the-shining-creepy-jack-nicholson-gif-6770184651214471845

[left ermine]

I agree, except 1 thread

[barren scroll]

i wish i could unprogram that

somehow

[left ermine]

[dense wharf]

Can you call them caves instead? Caves full of goons? Maybe call them goon caves?

[left ermine]

Goon to release the stress

[light hamlet]

@dense wharf Have you seen The Mummy Returns ?

[dense wharf]

Many times actually

[light hamlet]

I don't remember in which one it was, but at some point they are in a forest going to a Pyramid and there are these lil ugly thins running with blowguns

That's how I see them

[dense wharf]

I think that's the second one maybe after the balloon crashes?

That's a good pull

[light hamlet]

Yes, then the whole forest disappear into the pyramid

[idle root]

inferno difficulty megathread should be closed at 100k messages

then we make inferno difficulty 2

[light hamlet]

[floral mortar]

this is the root of the problem, and why it feels like it's not even worth making constructive feedback to begin with (such as the 'letstalkaboutdune' thread) because they just keep making dumbass decisions over your heads without even having the courtesy to tell you about it beforehand

once that feeling sets in many of the threads turn into yapping & venting as a result

[idle root]

it's time to make a new legacy

[light hamlet]

Well, we're playing the game and are considered as players above all, so I guess they don't want us to have "privileges" over you guys and leak any information or whatsoever which I understand

Although on some stuff I already asked them to put more trust into us but it is what it is

[floral mortar]

the Amber Tiamat thing is a good example of something that would have gone over a lot better if they had let EN management know beforehand, such as during the season break, that it was going to get changed

then someone like c could have communicated it to the rest of the playerbase here

instead of just dropping it in some midseason patchnotes as "issue fix" #18 lol

[light hamlet]

Well sometimes Tiamat still transforms when Amber procs attack and lose her form

[floral mortar]

yeah it's still wonky from what ive gathered

the Amber woes never end

[idle root]

Is this the 3rd amber adjustment on Tia now?

[light hamlet]

But the shell itself was/is buggy and the interaction between some character is really awkward

Obviously people using her with Amber will are frustrated cause it never works as intented

[floral mortar]

the concern after this latest Amber change is other shell/animus interactions like Borgne w/Dark Moon (S2 passive gives high damage for both Dark Moon attack procs), Fuqiu with Supernova (Moonlit Veil healing triggers heal over time effect if target under HP threshold for it & Fuqiu still has Supernova effect active), probably some others too

are they going to get changed suddenly too and with no compensation like the Tiamat on Amber one

would be really nice to have some more communication on this

[light hamlet]

Well some interactions between Animus & Shells make them way op than they should imo

Kazuyo & Chacal which proc her S2 as well

Lily Whitefang which make her as if she was doing 2 auto, so 2 push meter

[floral mortar]

Jackal attack on Kazuyo still keeps enemies asleep

[light hamlet]

It's more easier to nerf, adjust a shell than the character itself

At the end of the day, you can switch a shell "easily", but a 5/5/5 character isn't the same

[floral mortar]

sure but given that getting & rolling a high tier shell with good passives is a big investment in and of itself it's imperative that players know ahead of time which of the interactions are unintended and will be changed so they know not to waste resources on it needlessly

if you've identified something as a bug, you need to let players know asap even if the fix is only coming down the line

on some characters the shell interaction makes a significant difference in their viability too like this Borgne Dark Moon meta

[nova parrot]

Some units are good bc they work well with a shell. Nerfing the shell is just a bad as nerfing the unit, and makes all the investment potentially lost, and with no reset it feels terrible and comes across as very scummy behavior

[floral mortar]

yeah it's another "feels bad" moment

[light hamlet]

Well depends of the interaction between both

Most Dps can run without Rev and are doing the job they're asked

If Borgne cannot shine because of Dark Moon then there's something wrong in the meta, character etc

True, at the moment farming shells is a shore, rolling passiv etc as well

But between days, weeks of farming and 12 lattices

I'm pretty sure you would prefer to keep your lattices and an usable character and just switch his shell

Imo main reason why people want reset, is either they did a mistake or had an expectation of a character which doesn't live up to their expectation or they are way better characters out there and your old units aren't doing the job

[floral mortar]

bare minimum compensation for mid-season shell changes would be to give resources which recoup most or all of the cost of leveling & configuring the shell

it wouldn't even matter that much in the larger economy side of things to do that

[light hamlet]

Which is a valid argument but the true meaning behind is that some characters are rusting due to their kits not being good enough than 2 months ago

[dense wharf]

A lot of them want full invest to show their true colors

Which doesn't necessarily mean they need to be changed

[floral mortar]

the main reason behind people clamoring for a reset when the Amber Tiamat change happens is the fact that it comes out of left field after 2+ months of the core interaction (taking a dragon form turn right after proccing Amber) not being messed with

which can be easily avoided by stating clearly that it is an unintended bug so people know not to invest too deeply in Amber and/or Tiamat if they take it into consideration

unless the intention is to disguise balance changes as bug fixes to avoid giving players compensation, to begin with

[light hamlet]

I'm pretty sure even that even if they worded it as a bug and not working as intended people would've wanted something in return

[floral mortar]

not if it had been messaged loud & clear in like week 2 of the game's lifespan that it will be changed in the future

[light hamlet]

True but if themselves didn't expect it then it's awkward

[floral mortar]

ok so the developers are self-reporting about not playing their own game then? not sure what you're trying to say here

seems pretty negligent to not know about the Tiamat Amber interaction given that it's a constant thing in PVP meta

[dense wharf]

Warframe concludes every hotfix notice with a list of known bugs. Summoners War does too

[light hamlet]

I mean look at the new patch and the part about Tiamat

[floral mortar]

im also pretty sure that Amber Tiamat was played in the beta as well (wasn't a part of it myself so can't speak on it with 100 % confidence personally)

[dense wharf]

What about it

[light hamlet]

It says they fixed Tiamat because she would get extra turn if she get killed and trigger transformation

Well even with Amber right now, she still transforms, hit and go back to normal

So was it fixed ? No, were they talking about another interaction ? Who knows

[floral mortar]

imo the intent of the patch notes / change matters more here if they messed up what they were trying to fix that's neither here nor there lol

[light hamlet]

Amber Tiamat in beta was something else, she would just be invincible

And it happened on others characters few weeks ago

[nova parrot]

At this point I have no idea what they want the tia amber interaction to be

[floral mortar]

me neither to be honest

[light hamlet]

Well from what I understand

[nova parrot]

Will it get changed again? Who knows. Will it be right then? No idea

[floral mortar]

yeah exactly next patch might have another #26 Amber fix

[light hamlet]

She shouldn't be able to transform when Amber proc because it's supposed to remove her [Bloodshed] stacks

[floral mortar]

in that case it might be tweaked again if it still continues to happen after the latest patch

[light hamlet]

But this interaction itself won't be the same due to her HP remaining, remaining stack etc

Just run Lighthouse, safer with these Makoto / Heinrich running out there

[floral mortar]

ok tell that to the people who spent thousands of stamina getting the perfect Amber to drop for Tiamat on Hoyan and then spent massive amounts of training data & chips to get good passives on them

[nova parrot]

Don't they block the heal? I guess you still get the push, but neither of those are likely to trigger LH on a tia

[floral mortar]

im sure it will go over well

[nova parrot]

Actually equally as painful as having lattices on a nerfed unit

Just weeks worth of stamina and effort from players deleted

[light hamlet]

It does block the heal but you'll still get the push and do something

[nova parrot]

Hard to believe they think that's fine imo

[light hamlet]

Once a Tiamat transform and into a Makoto she's doomed

[floral mortar]

look, sometimes the marathon just has these crocodile pits in the middle of them and you gotta fight your way out of them by tooth & nail

[light hamlet]

If I was rich I would've 5/5/5 Tiamat

But just running her 1/1/5 is enough atm

[floral mortar]

anyway i think we've beaten this horse to death so to summarize:

1. Intended interactions and bugs should be communicated asap to the players to avoid them wasting resources on things that will be fundamentally changed later
2. Sudden, significant changes to Shell/Animus interactions should be compensated for adequately

dont really have anything else to say on the matter

[light hamlet]

We're good then