Liliam is lackluster

[deft swallow]

👀

[wind void]

my subs just have a crazy amount of attack

[deft swallow]

Holy

[wind void]

Actually would Keeneye 12/12 be better than harvest, or does the def pen from harvest help more?

keeneye would give me 18 crit damage and 25% extra damage

but lose 10% attack and 30% def pen

I need a damage calc for this game, idk the math

[deft swallow]

Not sure tbh, intuitively Keeneye feels better since def pen usually only scales hard at high percentages

If you don’t have def break setup, probably don’t go harvest

[wind void]

oh I thought that Harvest had more value if you don't have a DEF breaker

[deft swallow]

No, it’s quite the opposite

That’s why yeli technically is bis with harvest (someone did the math)

[wind void]

Dang, this is throwing me off

[foggy bluff]

U are all wrong guys, she can OS the toughest rta teams

[final jewel]

#announcement

[modern oar]

There are 0 members arguing she is good… only a minority saying “fine” which obviously is a problem.

[flat token]

She is good lol

[cold flicker]

She is good, what are u on?

[worthy hawk]

do u even play rta

why is this thread still alive

i think everyone knows what she does and where she excels at by now

except for some tourists who never touched rta in their life

[foggy bluff]

Tbh, its just the way they advertice her. She is good, she will be great in the future, pretty much a top Tier unit. But dude, she isnt here to deal Massiv dmg, she is also not her to OS the THOUGHEST RTA teams. They just should fire this dude who writes the tweets...

[worthy hawk]

have u ever heard of def break

ppl just build stupid shit on her

and complain when she doesnt deal dmg

[foggy bluff]

Lol, works only in low elo lvls

[worthy hawk]

what rank are u

hey come on now

[scarlet onyx]

Im master and she OS nothing solid even with breakdef.

[flat token]

[gilded mauve]

idk. i have her on 325 spd and use her to os dds, obols and stuff like that. tried her on that "bruiser" build + didnt like it. i think shes fine.

[scarlet onyx]

Yes that's what i do too

But she lacks dps for a team who as Gsania. Even if it's the free SR

[dusty scaffold]

imagine if xiao was here

He would have gone nuclear here

[harsh inlet]

I saw him put her in s tier on his tier list

But I'm sure these clowns know better

[dusty scaffold]

yeah I am talking with him as we speak

he will coach me into mythic surely

and fix my skill issue

https://tenor.com/view/copium-meme-pepe-frog-gif-26117735

[worthy hawk]

noo why does she not oneshot with atk down and no def break

[dusty scaffold]

smh cant even 1 shot bloodbath units without def break and is atk down

[worthy hawk]

i demand a refund asap

[dusty scaffold]

surely she is bugged

[scarlet onyx]

Even with bdef and atq up she dont os her...

[dusty scaffold]

summon your inner xiao

and go nuclear

come on

[scarlet onyx]

Let me correct, after platine she can't kill properly build Gsania

[harsh inlet]

Who else can?

[dusty scaffold]

I like how the low elo players say she doesnt work in high elo

but high elo players put her high A/Low S tier

truly a gacha community

[scarlet onyx]

Yes she is good for os cc or speed, but i respond about this image

Never say she is low. I really like her but this post is really not accurate

[dusty scaffold]

xiao changed his name

[worthy hawk]

i crash out against actual retards like defending stupid shit i dont care for much about these topics

though not like anything happens

[harsh inlet]

OK but what other dps can kill a properly built sania?

[worthy hawk]

even if i call the r word

[dusty scaffold]

yeli with good rng

and thats about it

[worthy hawk]

woooow what a misleading imagine refund me my pulls

[scarlet onyx]

No ofc, i don't blâme Liliam for not doing this. Like i said is just a reaction about this post

[harsh inlet]

Pretty sure she can't

[worthy hawk]

as if she doesnt oneshot obol etc.

do i really have to show the video of liliam absolutely wrecking my holden

he had 5 debuffs or smth and was def broken

but oneshot is a oneshot regardless

[normal aurora]

How is celince a counter to liliam?

[worthy hawk]

shes not

[normal aurora]

I know thats why i am asking

[dusty scaffold]

will you join the rta discord btw

[worthy hawk]

whats that

is this the new stuff chris was talking about

[dusty scaffold]

its the shelter xiao and some other top players made

to avoid chris and dev bs

also the low elo takes like lilliam is lackluster

[worthy hawk]

hey stop with the laughs 😭

[worthy hawk]

cool

is it open or private

[dusty scaffold]

if you want in I can send you invite

technically open but not going to share it publically

[worthy hawk]

i'd love to thanks

[quartz geyser]

so she isnt, but in theory passive block on her would be a counter since she could then be stunned

Celence is meant to be the counter for passive bassed champs right? And guess who has a big passive 😛

[marble coral]

Tell crash out man today was my last day of etheria

[normal aurora]

What you read on the S1 of units is not considered a passive by the debuff forgetfullness

Forgetfullness effects every passive on the s2 only

[fallen oar]

Im pretty sure someone claim that now s1 passive can be block by forgetfulness

But not liliam tho since you wont even land it at all

[vague crest]

it works vs s1 passives aswell. It jsut doenst work vs liliam bc she cant be CC and Forgetfulness counts as CC

[dire jackal]

It blocks s1 passives that are interactive as buffs, doesnt block passives that are stats. Example:

• Blocks tiamat from gaining stacks of passive
• Doesnt block tiamat dmg share
• Doesnt block holden counter rate/final dmg
• Blocks vipers stacks (s1) gain and his counter/cdres redu (s2)
  Etc.

[worthy hawk]

wait wait wait

i'm 99.999% sure she blocks holden from countering

because my holden has 96% chance and when i tested it he never countered

[obtuse meteor]

For real??

[marble coral]

Yes pliyo

Hope u guys have it good atleast

I hope all these sacrifices are for greater good

[vague crest]

im pretty sure aswell

he can still run bramble which alot of ppl do for some reason

[mossy folio]

Not gonna wait to see what this new announcement from C was about?

[marble coral]

Ye ain't gonna

[harsh inlet]

it's sad to see u drop this marathon

[leaden marten]

its okay guys

they will fix the game when its 2 weeks away from eos

[normal aurora]

Doesnt block holden counter, even though its interactive

[dire jackal]

It is but its not, because just like tiamats dmg share on s1 it doesnt activate its permanently up from start of the game based on his stats

It doesnt have any condition that activates it

[normal aurora]

Doesnt block veronica passive

[dire jackal]

Same case its active from start,no buff icon attached to it its pretty much counted as stats

It will block anything with condition attached to it that u can see on the screen such as backup from doki s1, tiamat stacks, viper stacks

It wont block anything that is invisible and is always up

[leaden marten]

did they clarify the miletstones for summon event ?

like hen exactly you get selector gold lattice etc

[dire jackal]

We shall learn on tomorrows episode of how fucked is the new event!

Just gimme gold latice for 80 or less and im good

[leaden marten]

random SSR at 50, gold lattice at 100 and ssr selector at 150 or 200

sounds good to me

🤷‍♂️

but devs are certified subhumans

so i think multiply that by 2x or 3x

[worthy hawk]

she does

[dire jackal]

Tbh id think gold lattice is before randon ssr since price of gold latt in shop averages at 35$~ while ssr random is 50-100 so 75$~ average iirc

[normal aurora]

Would you say she blocks mizuki from counting retelation stacks, to enter her retelation state

[leaden marten]

hm that makes sense yeah

[dire jackal]

Imagine 100-200-300 biggest skip event of everyones life aside new accounts

[leaden marten]

yeah 50-100-150 makes the most sense to me

but i lowkey expect 100-200-300

[dire jackal]

Ye she should she blocks any passive skill completely as in s2 passive

Mizuki wont be able to get stacks for her retaliation under forgetfullness

But if u are in retaliation state ull counter

Because buff is up

[normal aurora]

That is in fact true, tested like 2 hours a lot of interactions with celince

[dire jackal]

It worked like so since season 0 at least, unless smth changed with makoto interactions can name everything abt her with how much i used her

[normal aurora]

Funniest interaction so far

Borgne can crit under forgetfullness

[dire jackal]

Ye we memed it white fang borg

Friend died to it

Blocked him he doesnt lose hp, he tanked and white fang double crit him with 2x 10%

Kinda hillarious borgne is only bruiser thst got nerfed at start of s1 while being the weakest

[normal aurora]

Only a real alpha knows how to use borgne in rta

[dire jackal]

Tbh he can solo games as last pick in certain drafts, once upon a time he is good while most of the time he is dogwater

Needs buffs

[normal aurora]

Btw, does anybody know how to run aurora under 1 min without rosa or yeli?

Or do i have to build rosa now

[leaden marten]

devs know better

clearly holden needed the buff

[coarse sorrel]

anyone have a full 5/5/5 borgne on count+ atk buff clip?

[normal aurora]

Ofc, he should oneshot a squishy when he counters, not only half life them.

[mossy folio]

Doing that a week before new RGB banners would be real scummy

[leaden marten]

to be fair

even f2p can accumulate enough for 2 RGB limiteds in 4 weeks

to hard pity

so i think its fine

they will have 4 weeks before next rgb ends after pulling for summon event

personally i dont think its an issue

and if somebody like nahor comes they can always skip

[coarse sorrel]

This

As f2p I have to decide whether to gamble on standard to spread my roster/roll for the monthly new units/max refresh

[dire jackal]

Just never pull with gems u dont need it to get every banner if u play the game

And refreshing u can do 100% of time 10/10 as long as u play the game

Only thing abt it is that u need to get 20 pulls from summon shop over 2 ssr lattice as f2p per rotation of each LD unit

And that is if u perma hard pity

[coarse sorrel]

if you want to gamba for pvp chars you need instead of waiting for banner you kinda have to use gems

[storm knot]

because it works like a charm... the thing is Liliam needs a pool of animus to team around her. I always try to firstpick Lily/Kazuyo/Lingluo, then depending of what the enemy picks, i can use a CC team or a bruiser one (Obol, Doki, Holden, Viper, Sania, Fuqiu, Hoyan (to counterpick cleave) ). If u play to counter every enemy animus, Liliam will fit in almost every team u use because of her passive being so unique.

i use this build, and i think there is no better build for her rn, until we see how new pets works

maybe trading LOS for white fang whenever u face a Valerian, but that's very specific situation

with that build i do like 18k to full tank BB, it is like 20-40% HP depending of the enemy tankiness, but if i face a tank comp i always pick some CC and healer to win in a long fight (S3 heal cap helps and autohealing S1 help with that)

otherwise, if i face a non tank build, she just oneshot every squishy unit unless i have an ATK- debuff or they have DEF+... Usually Holden helps me with his counter to DEF- someone and then i nuke them with Liliam S3

Maybe is not what we expected to be, but she REALLY is good, but u have to play very different, it gives me dokidoki vibes. I hope they buff A BIT her S3 damage, or give her some PVE buff like DOT or something

something PVE that doesn't powercreep in PVP

(im 5/1/5 btw, so sadly u won't feel her useful if u don't invest jellys on her, which is what ppl do bc there are a lot of animus u want to focus on before Liliam and that's very understandable)

[deft swallow]

I think most people can agree now that she’s doesn’t need a buff directly, but instead should get some better/more efficient shell to build

[deft swallow]

How did you get that crit/speed with 515 👀

[storm knot]

yes, some shell that let her build up trough a long fight (which is where she shines bc of her passive and S3) and also gives her a bit of damage. That's why we are using Law of silence

[vague crest]

shes fine as she is jsut build her likea dps and pick her vs comps wehre she should be pickd in. You ask for a ult dmg buff so she is immune to cc has bb on and can do dmg?

[storm knot]

2x Crit Rate module

but i use harvest, so my "low damage" is enough to kill squishy

anything higher than that is just diminishing return

FOR ME

[storm knot]

im looking forward to get her 5/5/5 so i can use another dmg module with furyedge

12% crit on her s2 is good

but i think i should use those jellys on dokidoki first, i have 3 dupes on doki and she is 1/1/1 lol

[leaden marten]

she is actually insane on bloodbath

with correct build

[leaden marten]

that is very solid

you might have cooked the bis lilliam build

[vague crest]

okay but why you need bb is my question. It only triggers vs cleave why would you pick her vs cleave

[leaden marten]

still triggers vs bruisers

[fleet sky]

Welcome back uncle bug. I was trying to DM you

[deft swallow]

It’s because most of the time when you pick CC there’s at least some revelation sub dps units as well

[vague crest]

they wont cleave you dead thou and even vs brusier shes a shit pick so why bother picking her. Just pick her the 1/10 times she wins you the game

like hoyan

[leaden marten]

she does good vs bruisers btw in certain matchups

in sim battles she beats tia

reliably

[storm knot]

she is not shit pick against bruisers, i used to think like that but u have to pick at least 1 cc unit and she will be fine. Also u have to think what they will ban from your team, like if u pick a Kazuyo and they dont pick Doki, they prolly will ban kazuyo, so u pick 2 healers + 1 speed buffer and that's easy win against every bruiser comp (Liliam bruiser is very op, she can do high ST, which means u can focus any support while tanking the enemy bruisers)

your goal should be facing just 1 DPS and u will be fine

[vague crest]

i did not play rta since last season so i jsut take your word. I only saw the tourney where she stank the place out with that build

[storm knot]

also she is very fun to use, feels like chess haah

[leaden marten]

havent seen all the games

but breads lilliam slaps

[storm knot]

not the most op animus, but very strong

[leaden marten]

and his lilliam is worse than sacrogamers

from what i can see

[deft swallow]

Mind sharing your secret in this one?

[wind void]

The Bloodbath law of silence build?

[leaden marten]

y

[wind void]

yeah I've been working on something similar. Her S3 nukes DPS through BB

I don't think mine would be able to kill a tiamat or anything, gear issue probably

[storm knot]

if u build her BB, u wont oneshot a tiamat even if u are full 5/5/5

but that's why u want to match their team, if they use 2 healers, u use 2 too

in long term, liliam will wipe their team

[wind void]

I am messing around with a secondary build using Count with bulwark/keeneye/furyedge and that one slaps way harder, but obviously less survivability

[storm knot]

if u have ultrafast lily-tsukiyomi-mio, then u can use her like that for offline i think

but i would prefer to use white fang in that case, because of valerians

[wind void]

yeah good point. I haven't ran into any valerians in RTA but I have mostly just been messing around in arena

[flat obsidian]

Haha but yeah 😂

150 summon for gold lattice

[flat obsidian]

2y crit rate ?

[storm knot]

yes

[wild coyote]

Is harvest that good?? Like better than furyedge + momentum/keeneye 6?

[mortal jacinth]

38% CD for 6 6 edge keen is what, a 20% or lower relative modifier on a lot of these builds? Although it also saves you from finding some cr subs?

Is 30% def ignore a greater increase? It looks like it would be but idk shit about the actual formula and it's only for >50% HP

[wild coyote]

It does seem pretty uncertain

Id be tempted to just take the crit stats cause mine would be, at best, 515 p0. So getting those stats would be much harder

Maybe for hyper invested ones the def ignore just works better

[mortal jacinth]

Mine won't be much different but I have shit for edge mods so I'm forced to go harvest anyway

[wild coyote]

Same lol, I guess thats also worth considering

[wind void]

Just use one of those effect resist furyedge pieces you got. I know we all have tons of them

[wild coyote]

🤚❌ I'll stick with my +hp ones sir

[scarlet onyx]

Liliam is good ? yes.
If you can reset her, you do it ? yes.

[deft swallow]

Nah, I build her even though I still don’t think she’s that good. You and I, we are different.

[scarlet onyx]

oooh i have miss something.
When you skill up Liliam if reset ? After Nahor

[orchid tundra]

I'm reseting xiada

I can clear all farming content with diting, and all pve content with bruisers lol

[mortal jacinth]

Xiada too useful if you're playing Noyelia Restart

[hushed wadi]

could you dm me rta server link

[deft swallow]

Clearly you have not seen def breaker xiada

[orchid tundra]

this just gets stomped by mizuki no?

[deft swallow]

Shh

it’s not actually that bad tho if you land the def break first

mainly for holden

[orchid tundra]

viper is a pretty good holden counter

[wind void]

what are these resets you guys are talking about?

[deft swallow]

No resets, just what if

[orchid tundra]

I have a feeling they might cave and just give it to us

[wind void]

I wouldn't say no lol

I could finally reset SSania

[flat obsidian]

Hahaha

Have fun 😂 why.. they destroy the game piece for piece

[proven marsh]

No way we need 200 summons for the lattice💀

Am I reading that right?

[wind void]

yes

100 for the selector

[proven marsh]

100 for selector not bad but damn was hoping to pick up that lattice a little early

[wind void]

I expected the lattice to be before the selector honestly

good event for anyone who needs 1 of those 3 units

[proven marsh]

Yea same tbh but I'ma just pick up that selector and dip

[wind void]

yeah probably not worth an extra 100 summons for the lattice unless you have a ton saved up already, or are a whale

[vague crest]

cheaper to buy the overpriced 30$ lattice weekly pack ...

[sly hornet]

Oh that's not looking f2p friendly

[wind void]

The SSR selector is 100 summons

pretty good honestly

they could have given shitty rewards first and locked the SSR selector behind 300+ summons

[sly hornet]

For me I would have preferred the lattice

[sly hornet]

I wished they would make events for all rather than gating to some of their playerbase/whales

If they want more money they could just add more stuff in the shops for whales to buy

[next copper]

this event is good for all

95% of the playerbase benefit from selector

the other 5% get good rewards up until the selector, and are probably at the point of pvping where veronika dupe is very powerful

[sly hornet]

Only the selector the rest of the rewards are still gated

[next copper]

you get a 'random ssr' on the way to the selector as well

the rest of the rewards are not worth at all

think maybe a very few amount of people out of a thousan would even go for it

[sly hornet]

What's the point of adding something that people won't even go for

[next copper]

because its an option?
how do you expect the game to stay alive if they dont have an incentive for whales

all the good rewards are frontloaded

[wind void]

I'm honestly not sure how this event isn't good for "all"

[next copper]

they could have fucked us over and spread them out evenly

[sly hornet]

M saying there is a better option than that

[wind void]

Whales benefit by getting an imprint, F2P benefit by getting a unit for free that they likely didn't already have

They could have just straight up locked the unit selector behind 400 summons

and then even more people would complain

[sly hornet]

Most gacha games make there events accessible to all and they whales can get whatever they want in shop

M Just saying they should keep whaling out of events

[wind void]

the highest reward is 1 red print

I genuinely don't think whales give a shit about that

my bad, it's an SSr summon

either way

[sly hornet]

Anyways my point is they try keep whaling out of events because most people see events as the f2p ground
If they want more money and stuff there are better ways to do and this is not it

[terse moss]

As a f2p ( kinda) this event is not that bad. I still able to pity next 2 rgb banner because amber trek will reset, and cubic event will comeback. But fk that random ssr at 300

[fallen oar]

Those 300 summon random ssr is probably for new player

[terse moss]

This event is perfect for new player

They don't need to target summon kloss anymore

[wind void]

big W event

[wind void]

How would you change the event to be better?

[sly hornet]

M f2p but I have heard people asking for actual skins and not a recolor

Adding more stuff to the whale shop

[wind void]

what does skins have to do with the event?

the wishbinder gift event

[sly hornet]

Oh I red that wrong

100 summon cap

They can add whatever rewards in between

But 100 summons is doable for mostly everyone and u will still have enough for the next rgb banner

[terse moss]

If you save your summons you can clear this event easily

[sly hornet]

Yeah I use about 100 summons before the event go announced and got yeli so I don't regret that but just speaking for those who didn't save up

[fallen oar]

Yea...if i dont just randomly use 100 of my regular summon i probably dont even need to spend gem on this event

[terse moss]

They need to remove the blue dot on the summon

[fallen oar]

Anway with this event pop-up now being a lesson to not randomly summon on regular banner anymore,either save for rgb or wait for this event come out again

[sly hornet]

Oh my God yes 😂

[leaden marten]

Random SSR is 300 pulls

[sly hornet]

Getting gated towards your summons purely for this event feels bad tho

[leaden marten]

Selector is 100

So f2p likely skips random SSR

Unless they spend gems

But should get selector minumum

Maybe lattice depending on how much they saved

[next copper]

ya i meant u get a pity guarenteed on the way to selector

at 80

[leaden marten]

Oh yeah

I mean it's a great event

Like idk how people can hate this

[paper valley]

If they repeat this it's for perm banner. So you're free on RGB rate ups.

[leaden marten]

And people know how aggressive I am towards XD

[paper valley]

People see it as being required to do 300

[fallen oar]

Having a goal when to splurge your excess pull after guarantee every new rgb unit is good

Usually i sometimes do random regular summon,but with this event after secure my rgb pity i will instead saving pull again for this

And its give me more reason to go for gem instead lattice for other event too....all i see is just win win situation

[sly hornet]

As a f2p holding saving a month worth of pulls for an event feels bad for me

[fallen oar]

Summoning now or summoning later is doesnt matter for me

In fact this event feels better because i get more value pulling than doing regular banner on random time

[paper valley]

Wouldn't it feel bad doing 200 to get dupes you don't use compared to 200 with a lattic

[sly hornet]

I guess u don't understand my point so let's just leave it at that

[mortal jacinth]

Good event

[wind void]

You can get that many just by doing ember trek probably

and what else are you spending pulls on as F2P? They don't release new unit banners constantly, so unless you are just willingly throwing them at permanent banner constantly, you should have plenty

[mortal jacinth]

That's what I've been doing with 2 banners' worth of pity in reserve

[wind void]

exactly my point lol

[fallen oar]

its over for me...only 3k gem left,now i forced to choose gem/purple ticket to pity next rgb banner and no 2k refresh on 2x event too rip

[paper valley]

Ember trek and ethernet rally

[true portal]

That retards deleted my thread

[static mortar]

I mean… yea

Who told u to waste all ur resources lol

[mortal jacinth]

How did you get so low? Gem summons?

[static mortar]

Yea

Standard banner summons

Dishing on regular ld summons

Basically all the biggest sins in any gacha game

And I STILL have enough to get the selector

[mortal jacinth]

I've been shocked at how long I'm sustaining max refresh

Possibly indefinitely

[fallen oar]

Its sattire lol

[fallen oar]

I go for liliam and 200 regular

[mortal jacinth]

Oh you did 200 for lattice already on Asia server?

[fallen oar]

Im sure i can recover when rgb arrive

Yes

[mortal jacinth]

icic

[velvet tapir]

Liliam is fine

[vapid timber]

\she is fine im spending 50% more time on rengo with her when comparing with dting. if shes ass on content without big dispells i wonder how ass she is on dting when she cant have her atk up

thats like 2~3 turn where she could die so whoever think her s1 can save her think again.

ok sure she is pvp but she a niche pick. next

gaben newell just need to make liliam s3 hp seal work on bosses but halved then she can be "good enough"

[wind void]

Considering we have very few actual niche units, and she is the only unit in the game that's immune to CC, she's insanely good

If you needed this unit to help in your Rengo clears, then your account has other problems

[vapid timber]

oh no im just having fun with her

since people are saying shes better than dting on rengo

so i tested

the only thing shes better at is "healing" with her s1 while taking more turns to kill the boss

[wind void]

What units were they pairing her up with?

Basically a full sustain team?

[vapid timber]

literally identical to said dting team

cachi kloss vice / kloss vice ll ( worse winrate lmao) , the numbers below are for Cachi teams.

dting is at 0.45-1.2m(very rarely at 2 min )
while liliam is 1.2-2m ( smaller sample though like 40 runs so far.)

[mortal jacinth]

She has a niche, but that doesn't make her niche

People are really being thrown by this

Countering one of 3 broad archetypes in the entire game is a niche, but it's not obscure

[harsh inlet]

They think niche = low value

While her value is very high in ban pick

She's the difference between getting cc locked and insta losing

Go pick diting instead and see how that goes for u

[wind void]

but if a unit isn't good everywhere that I want them to be good, they are a bad unit

[harsh inlet]

They are just used to blatant power creep from other gachas

[wind void]

I'm actually really happy they haven't gone the super power creep route

like most of us have been using Diting since day 1 and he's still useful. I think that's a good thing

[vapid timber]

how did i manage to ragebait you guys

im just attacking people who say theyre good in rengo without having them guys

[mortal jacinth]

Ragebait used to mean something

[vapid timber]

i dont care about pvp with liliam since theyre always banned on my end either way (even against bots ? for some reason)

[mortal jacinth]

She's especially busted in United Front

[vapid timber]

holy fuck i just got fucked by a holden ( as in i just died to holden lol)

wc

[mortal jacinth]

was he thick?

in the shaft, you know?

[vapid timber]

LMFOFA

[harsh inlet]

She's getting banned for a reason

[mortal jacinth]

You always gotta wonder about twinks

[storm knot]

pog

[solid flicker]

oh god

[storm knot]

ultra pog

[solid flicker]

you guys got what you asked

are you satisfied

you just broke the game, gg

the character went from top tier to straight up unfair broken now lmao

[hazy dust]

When the target is a boss, increases Final DMG by 50%.

[compact gazelle]

@final jewel can you confirm if the devs actually don’t care about gvg. Why are they pushing through buff to liliam mid gvg

Do they get ai to make these decisions

[solid flicker]

genuinely, that's all they could have done and it would have been perfect

[fleet sky]

they want people broke for the next banner

[hazy dust]

We'll see how she performs now

[covert vine]

theres ur buff

[covert vine]

100% hp seal and 50% pve boss damage

[compact gazelle]

Just buff her after this 2x weekend

They dumb af

[covert vine]

too bad she will be banned in rta D;

no more fun

[compact gazelle]

Buffing and pushing through shit like this mid gvg

[fleet sky]

and I just did my hits

[fallen oar]

Cant win

[fleet sky]

but it is what it is

[compact gazelle]

Now the union that used the least amount of Liliams pre buff has a massive advantage lmfao

Nice competitive game

[stark mantle]

Revert the buffs please ty

she was already good

[odd hound]

Okay close the thread she's buffed

[steady minnow]

Now she might be the best inferno dmg

[vast rain]

at least they didn't buff her after the banner went away

[fallen oar]

Buff -> get complained
Do nothing -> get complained
Nerf -> get complained

You cant win,there is always someone who gonna be mad

[stark mantle]

They had a bug on her S2

Her S1 and S3 already did good damage

even on bloodbath builds

so everyone laughs at low damage

and now they giga buff her to must ban status in rta

This isnt healthy for the game at all

[solid flicker]

yeah fr this is so unnecessary. Buff against bosses is awesome, but that's really all she should have gotten

[stark mantle]

like 100% destroyed hp

I was hitting borgnes and tiamats for 32k

with a bloodbath build

They now do not get to play the game

BEFORE THE BUFFS

[covert vine]

least rta is half the time now, 50% to 100%

[solid flicker]

well at least now the bruiser meta really is over

[stark mantle]

its not

[sage seal]

it’s not

[stark mantle]

she is horrible into defense bruisers

thats the problem

[vast rain]

lilliam will be banned a lot more now

[stark mantle]

shes HORRIBLE into defense scaling bruisers

like almost no damage

[velvet tapir]

NOT LACKLUSTER ANYMORE DEVS LISTENED

[solid flicker]

if you ban Liliam, how exactly do you win against control ? You don't

[stark mantle]

doki ling

like we did before liliam came out

[solid flicker]

and it doesn't work

[stark mantle]

bulwark

high res

the usual stuff

[harsh inlet]

I don't understand these devs

was better to listen to the cry outs about the economy before all these ppl left

still unchanged

but they cave in to this rage bait

[vast rain]

well if they released better units ppl might spend more for more copies

more units = more lattice needed too so stimulates greater need for lattice

[lethal plover]

$$$

[vast rain]

more ppl might swipe for those

[harsh inlet]

there will be more $$$ if u retain ure players

[vast rain]

yeah, i agree too

[stark mantle]

"YELI IS THE WORST DPS EVER OMG" literally a week after release "oh nevermind we found the right build"

[vast rain]

a bit late but better late than never

[stark mantle]

this is legit the same outcry

but we didnt even make it a week

[harsh inlet]

this is trash

I guess just save for every LD cuz they will all be broken now

[sly ravine]

GAME IS SAVED

[vast rain]

is that not how it works?

[sly ravine]

LILIAM IS SO BACK

[velvet tapir]

Money speaks and $7m to $2m does shit like this

[vast rain]

i was under that impression as someone new to these types of games

[fleet sky]

op vindicated

[stark mantle]

@waliant come back

you were right

[vast rain]

what's the point of having a banner with tripple the cost if the units are less useable than RGB or standard units

[harsh inlet]

stronger ok

but not complete broke

[vast rain]

i do think 100% is too much

coulda kept that to 50% and we're good, i just wanted her better than diting in pve

[lethal plover]

Yeah 100% too much hahaha but I will take it

[vast rain]

what's the harm in having stronger pve units? they're already powercreeping ember trek

[harsh inlet]

who cares about pve at this point

[vast rain]

they're losing players by having them not want to slog through those modes because of that

[harsh inlet]

u can clear everything with srs

[fallen oar]

Cant play tiamat now unless you pick or ban liliam

[vast rain]

me, i don't want to spend 3+ hours on astarte

[fleet sky]

[static mortar]

i rmeember this lmaooooooooooo

[vast rain]

show me all inferno SR clears and all SR embertrek + rally clears

[fallen oar]

[harsh inlet]

it's all over youtube

[vast rain]

[vast rain]

yes, you made the claim, burden of proof is on you

[harsh inlet]

u want me to search for all of ember trek and all infernos?

[vast rain]

yes, you said everything

prove it

[harsh inlet]

fk off don't believe me

[vast rain]

then nothing you say means shit

[hazy dust]

I would like to see a rally 3rd phase kururu clear please

[harsh inlet]

imagine wanting broken LD's to clear pve at this point

[vast rain]

oh i can already clear everything, i don't want to spend hours upon hours doing so

pay for qol, that's what literally every game has

and u don't even need to in this game

[grim condor]

will there be a "please nerf Liliam" thread in the next couple hours?

[stark mantle]

a few hours?

im making it right now

[placid ingot]

Isnt it this one? https://discord.com/channels/994852318904340560/1398962497998032938

[fickle geode]

50% > 100%

with base dmg boost

goodbye healers

[fleet sky]

Waliant completely destroyed the white knight forces

[harsh inlet]

if they had any brain they would have added the pve buff

cuz it was mainly the pve noobs who were crying

[covert vine]

they did

50% boost

[harsh inlet]

I mean only that

100% hp seal is mental

[covert vine]

yeh, bye tiamats,, one whack and leave her alone

[placid ingot]

This game hates Tiamat for some reason

Even in the bruiser meta theyre nerfing her indirectly

[covert vine]

shes so last season ;P

[placid ingot]

Yea she was meta in the beta tests

[grim condor]

just about to skill up s3 tiamat, but now thinking on switching to s1 liliam now lol

[ruby perch]

whats single hit animus meta call?

cleave, bruser, cc

?

[covert vine]

one punch man.

[harsh inlet]

the devs are retarded

[covert vine]

[harsh inlet]

ignore all the viable complaints

and cave in for the hoyo shills idiots

like this will change anything

[carmine basin]

[ruby perch]

it will change their wallet size

[carmine basin]

where the p5 packs

[rose flower]

Anyone know if I use s3 twice to beat 19k and 21k damages. How much HP will be seal?

[harsh inlet]

100%

[rose flower]

21k or 40k?

[covert vine]

its 100% of damage

any any further hits, stack

so if u s3 twice, thats additive to the current seal

[rose flower]

Good

lol

[ruby perch]

Su 100% de daño

[rose flower]

Tank team is very crazy now

[stark mantle]

people act like tank players werent already drafting liliam on bloodbath

everyones gonna be tank now we just fight over holden + liliam

[harsh inlet]

tbh I doubt holden is close to liliam now

[fallen oar]

First pick liliam,thats it

[stark mantle]

holden counters liliam

[harsh inlet]

she will just kill his teammates

healers specfically

while her healers are alive

[covert vine]

wouldn't say its a full counter, but yes, 5/x/x holden hurts

[vast rain]

i feel like my holden doesn't do that much damage

he's 5/5/4

[covert vine]

I try to ignore holdens for as long as possible while dealing with everything else

but, yeah I've been almost one hit

[rose flower]

Wt is the best shells for Liliam?

[covert vine]

may change now

law was most viable

[stark mantle]

so on a codex

not a dps shell

30.6k on a borgne almost killing him

before the buffs

now he would be dead or sealed fully to 1hp

[covert vine]

pretty much

[stark mantle]

welcome to 100% pick ban rate liliam

[covert vine]

yep, time to wait for next rgb to see what it rbings

[fallen oar]

Is this BB liliam?

[stark mantle]

yes

[fallen oar]

Oh shit cant one shot her then

[stark mantle]

ITS NOT EVEN A GOOD BUILD

IT WAS JUST TO MESS AROUND WITH

[fallen oar]

So the only way to win vs her is buff block?

[vast rain]

is your lilliam 12 lattice?

[tame pollen]

And now the powercreep fomo banners begins

[vast rain]

and is that law?

[stark mantle]

that screenshot was her on S3 level 3

[vast rain]

bruh what fomo you literally get so many pulls

[stark mantle]

the screenshot was codex

[harsh inlet]

only this time it's actually justified lmao

[vast rain]

[harsh inlet]

this is really bad

[tame pollen]

Lmao I have the same exact build and she deals good dmg alrdy against Tiamat and the kind. They really don't play their game at all

[vast rain]

yeah the 100% hp seal is too much, if they remove that would be

[stark mantle]

now my liliam is 5-5-5 p5 on a law build with more damage

soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[vast rain]

i was just expecting maybe a multiplier buff

[stark mantle]

GOOD LUCK ON LADDER

[fallen oar]

Cant you just buff block her? Pretty sure without attack buff she is not that scary

[stark mantle]

most bruisers ban hein

[fallen oar]

Nahor?

[vast rain]

doesn't viper also counter her

[stark mantle]

ok so you dont play pvp

[placid ingot]

Was borgne on bloodbath?

[stark mantle]

id have to go back and check

[placid ingot]

Sorry please dont im scared

[stark mantle]

me accidentally letting the CC turn meter pushback immune character move and now my tiamats on life support in the hospital but they wont pull her plug til the rest of my team dies

[placid ingot]

Poor tiamat man why do devs hate her so much

[stark mantle]

it was not on bloodbath it was a 12 onslaught build for cleave

[minor frigate]

Need reset event

[stark mantle]

wait

[stark mantle]

holy

[rose flower]

[stark mantle]

big brain devs

they made a ridiculous buff so stupid

that they have to nerf it

and give resets

as if the holden buff wasnt stupid enough

[minor frigate]

100% is a bit too much

[sage seal]

The multiplier got buffed too

[placid ingot]

That sounds too complicated i bet devs just saw poor profits despite Liliam banner

[fallen oar]

550% and 1100% vs boss

[minor frigate]

I think the boss buff was needed

[rare belfry]

Unforrunately, this might be their reasoning

[minor frigate]

Imagine doing less dmg than on release sr

[placid ingot]

So the easiest way to buff a new unit is to cry and not buy

[rare belfry]

Its so sad

She was fine…

Pvp wise

[final jewel]

I agree

I don’t think this was a smart decision but at least there are smart decisions ahead zzz

I was surprised when I heard about this today

[tender dew]

[minor frigate]

[harsh inlet]

she was doing 1 minute clears on rengo before the buff 💀

[little lynx]

How is Liliam doing after buff compare with Diting in PVE guys ?
Is she farm faster now ?

[harsh inlet]

now she has 100% dmg vs bosses

[minor frigate]

Link pls.

I wanna spd farm rengo

[ruby perch]

sub 30sec rengo clear

[final jewel]

idc ab pve changes tho

[ruby perch]

exciting times ahead

[covert vine]

400k s3 crits ( pve)

[wild coyote]

ohhhh so this 100% isnt the thing you hyped up before right? I was kinda scared

[minor frigate]

Yeli+liliam+doki+beyo oneshot rengo?

[rare belfry]

Im all for pve buffs, she might needed that and thats fine. But buffing her pvp just tells you they prepping this game to be hard powercreeping

[ruby perch]

they go in the direction where LD are meta defining

[placid ingot]

Maybe Liliam's "original design expectations" is to kill Tiamat first and foremost and then everyone else?

[terse moss]

time to 5 5 5 liliam, bye bye tiamat

[fickle geode]

originally i thought this was the good news you mentioned then right, C cant be this bad. must be that certain person that do multiple tests already with their system and decided to buff holden.

[ruby perch]

Ya multiple test. guy doing numbers didnt like how the numbers in his bank account wasnt going up. and told dev to fix it.

how i imagine it

[rare belfry]

Not wrong 😂

[fickle geode]

her pve change is good. but pvp 50% to 100% hp seal on top of 50% extra multiplier on s3.

kinda interesting

[ruby perch]

im excited to try out how broken lilum is in pve though

the youtube influencer

MAD DAMAGE

[rare belfry]

DEVS LISTENED

sure bud

[fleet sky]

We may have agenda posted too hard by showing Lilliam doing negative damage to Tiamat

[fickle geode]

u guys gotta abuse that liliam

[ruby perch]

we have an underground er community that does proganda on new animus

[errant sphinx]

https://tenor.com/view/lol-gif-10326322287539089286

[ruby perch]

so they get over buffed

[errant sphinx]

Tiamat to liliam

[tame pollen]

Time to cry about Massiah not one shotting bb teams as he should

[fickle geode]

im curious of the guy

who decided to buff holden and crank that 50>100% hp seal number

i would like to know his reasoning & test system used. for research purpose

[minor frigate]

Must be a pve gamer

[ruby perch]

what if it wasnt a guy

it was just ai

or maybe a cat

[fleet sky]

CatGPT

[fickle geode]

or maybe hes held hostage

like "now u find ways of how to increase our revenue, the new banner have not been reaching it at all, do it or ur goners"

[compact gazelle]

was this buff to liliam because they didnt get enough revenue from her banner or what

didnt devs promise no changes until season end?

@final jewel

Are we getting an announcement on whether they are changing their stance on this?

Because absolutely zero communication about this

Like, can we expect more changes throughout the season?

[ruby perch]

there could be a mix of reason. I think one would be to see if lilim can help with the current meta.

[lethal plover]

Thought they already said they gonna make changes. Big announcement in the few days to come

[ruby perch]

new shells

im ready

[stark mantle]

he already responded

[ruby perch]

[ruby perch]

what if C is the dev

in disguise

[stark mantle]

guess that call with jack didnt include telling the CMs about a massive buff to liliam

[lethal plover]

Yeah, after that announcement, I think all changes is fair play I guess

[compact gazelle]

Yeah i saw, tbh i just want c to have an emergency call about this, because I want my lattices back because I asumed liliam was safe from changes and invested a ton into her

whats the point when she gonna be perma banned

[harsh inlet]

I mean u still want her for the pressure in b/p

not like ure gonna drop her unless keep her 0 lattice as ban bait

[rare belfry]

This opens rooms for other wdym lol

[harsh inlet]

but honestly this could be a legit strat

[compact gazelle]

I plan on pre banning her and so do so many other players now

wdym

[harsh inlet]

yeah just invest 0 lattice

she's getting perma banned anyway

[compact gazelle]

like if I had known about these buffs i would have still pre banned her and invested 0 lattice into her

but its too late because i've already sunk 8 lattice into her but still need to pre ban her anyways

so dumb

[west tide]

Blasphemy!!!

[uneven juniper]

Well I mean she still has counter play

Namely being amber

[deft swallow]

I think just like how people learned to play with her, people are now gonna learn to play against her. I don't think shes gonna be perma banned, shes now just gonna be stronger than what some people like

[uneven juniper]

Just slap amber on your bruiser

[rare belfry]

@zim what player are you, standard?

[compact gazelle]

I don’t want to play amber on my rahu and Holden

[covert vine]

dw, new rbg healer, restores destroyed hp and shields

[compact gazelle]

Yeah mainly

[uneven juniper]

Well tbf I still think Liliam is weaker than Holden and rahu in current meta

[vast rain]

Id like to see more unique debuffing units in future releases

[west tide]

It is still a bruiser meta but at least this helps out a bit

[vast rain]

Aoe cr down cdmg down would be insane

[harsh inlet]

she will 100% 2 tab healers now

[deft swallow]

that reset part would be a W

[covert vine]

nah, they'll just sell us a solution

[compact gazelle]

[vast rain]

"Sell" as if you need to spend to get rgb units anyways

[fickle geode]

became one of my favourite drama

i wonder how it will end

[vast rain]

If this was a hoyo game or wuwa yeah that would apply

[fickle geode]

reset event out, offer solution

ignore

[covert vine]

locked behind S5 ;P

[fickle geode]

or

[vast rain]

Literally anyone can get the new units

[vast rain]

Im sure debuffs are locked behind s5

We already have an example unit counter: viper

[errant sphinx]

Balance change mid season = reset event

Preach

[uneven juniper]

True Viper vs Liliam is a good matchup for him

[rare belfry]

Theyve said only if they nerf no

[uneven juniper]

Though Liliam law will get one cast of S3 off now

Unless you strip reset

[west tide]

This is a good change. Now bruisers will need at least 2 non-healers. Before they can just go 3 supports and 1 bruiser…

[stiff mango]

It was a really good change

[west tide]

Rahu/Holden/Tia and Sania Ling and FU was so messed up

[bronze kindle]

Bb triple healer bruiser is cringe anyways

[deft swallow]

Technically in their wording they say

we’ve found that [Animus-Liliam]'s in-game performance has not met our original design expectations.
which suggests that originally they intended to make her a little stronger. Maybe the community complaining wasnt entirely all the reason they buffed her

[stark mantle]

as the rank 2 RTA player that only plays bruisers

This does nothing

but make the meta worse

[west tide]

Can’t be worse now 🤷

[stark mantle]

holden is SSS tier

the only counter to holden

was tiamat

tiamat is now countered by

mizuki

rahu

liliam

its legit not worth picking her

so now you are fighting over liliam and holden

to see who gets the op characters

[orchid tundra]

you would think they could assess meeting design expectations internally before release

[bronze kindle]

Glad to hear nobody likes playing against that shit and playing 20 min matches

[west tide]

How is that worse? You guys gets 1 each then?

[stark mantle]

they didnt need to buff her is the problem

she was already good

while being bugged

on her S2

she was being picked

by top 10 RTA

consistently

[deft swallow]

Man all I wanted was for her amber interaction to be fixed

[stiff mango]

Top 10 rta argument

[stark mantle]

she sucked in PVE sure

buff her PVE

[west tide]

She needed a slight buff. I do think they went overboard haha

[stark mantle]

but why seal 100% HP and MORE multipliers

[bronze kindle]

I hope lilliam pops tiamat and sania like a balloon

[orchid tundra]

all roads lead to reset event 🙏

[lethal plover]

She was made a pvp unit though

100% is overkill

[harsh inlet]

I know u don't like the bruiser meta but do u really think 100% dmg deal seal is ok?

[stark mantle]

Like i was already hitting tiamats and borgnes for 30k while im playing a bloodbath liliam

[west tide]

But top 10 RTA players are fine with buffed Rahu and Holden 😬

[stark mantle]

no

no

legit no one wanted it

everyone asking for it to get reverted

[mossy ember]

Wasn’t there not supposed to be balance changes during rta season? lol

[stark mantle]

ask in the RTA discord if anyone thinks holden should keep his buffs

everyone wants them to get reverted

[west tide]

Oh hell no! They over buffed

[errant sphinx]

No one even want the buff to bruiser lol
Rev nerf was enough as is

[compact gazelle]

Devs making tone deaf balance changes

its insane

[bronze kindle]

Only person upset are bruiser players who abuse bb triple healer tiamat

[stiff mango]

Even bread said when we were disccusing with him that she is bottom 2nd ld

[deft swallow]

ya, 100% damage seal is not ok. The 50% damage multiplier buff tho I think is fine

[stiff mango]

After shadow sania

[bronze kindle]

Rev already got nerfed need more counters to it

[stark mantle]

I am legit a bruiser player. They did NOT need to buff bruisers at all after S0

[vast rain]

The 100 hp seal was definitely overboard, just keep it to the multiplier increase and the s2 bug fix (it was bugged?)

[stark mantle]

They were already meta

[vast rain]

what about her s2 was bugged? I didn't use her

[errant sphinx]

Final dmg not calc?

[west tide]

Isn’t bread top 10 RTA? I guess not all top 10 agrees 🤷

[rare belfry]

Just read it lol

[stark mantle]

Bottom 2nd LD because shes niche

not because shes bad

[stiff mango]

Exactly

[vast rain]

so was it the stun or the damage increase?

[orchid tundra]

so many subtle bugs in this game the devs must be bad coders too

[rare belfry]

Patchnotes say dmg heh?

[stiff mango]

But she is too niche she only existed to counter CC back then now she functions correctly as a good anti bruisers unit and great anti CC unit

This was probably her intented design

[ruby perch]

she has great jeans too

[orchid tundra]

prob a bunch of deepseek coders

[west tide]

Yeah reading her kit before the numbers came out this sounded like her role. The 100% is overkill though but I will take it

[vast rain]

👍

[fickle geode]

i guess expect every l/d to be op

[harsh inlet]

and this is ok?

[stark mantle]

i mean

[harsh inlet]

what does the prior dps do?

[stark mantle]

not every LD

needs to be a must pick

ima be honest

[mortal jacinth]

That update ping shook me man this shit is wild lmao

[fickle geode]

[uneven juniper]

@stark mantle let me enjoy my 5/5/5 p5 Liliam

[fickle geode]

its like so sudden

without much communication

[stark mantle]

I HAVE THAT TOO AND I DONT WANNA ENJOY IT LMAO

[errant sphinx]

Preban

[uneven juniper]

I want to enjoy it

[bronze kindle]

Lilliam will murder tiamat im glad

[errant sphinx]

Hahahaha 12 lattice goneeeee

[deft swallow]

I do think there comes a point/extent of niche where its comparable to bad tho;
I think Liliam was just way too hard to draft properly and the majority of people straight up just dont have the investment to properly support her playstyle. (shes definitely not a unit you pick and auto win even against 3 cc, you need a proper team built around her)

[stiff mango]

Fundamentally she is bandaid fix for now, but she is at least a fix

The fundamentall design of things like bloodbath/revelation and other things are the problem

[uneven juniper]

Liliam still loses to amber unless you’re running tankdown Liliam + sustain

[harsh inlet]

I'm starting to think they have social anxiety

[harsh inlet]

this is a terrible fix cuz it kills unit balance

[stiff mango]

What's weird that cm doesnt make balance decisions directly?

[obtuse meteor]

At first: “the devs wants a balanced game”
[a few moments later]
“Buffs her massively”
HAHAHAH so which one is it?? 😵😵😵‍💫😵‍💫 what’s going on in the team lommaooooo

[rare belfry]

I would have too managing this community

[uneven juniper]

They wanted the new character to be meta

[stiff mango]

But this unit was underpowered as the devs wrote in the explanation

[errant sphinx]

Game not balance after the patch note that nerf rev and buff 3 bruiser

[mortal jacinth]

What?

[uneven juniper]

Liliam being weak was not part of their vision

[odd hound]

It's a data driven change, guyssss. She will be in line with their design intention after the buffs

[bronze kindle]

Lilliam deserved buffs awesome

[robust jetty]

We wooon thanks everyone

[west tide]

I mean revives and Amber still counters her S3

[lethal plover]

Next rgb buff all allies to be immune to any seal eff

[charred moss]

Bloodbath still exists so I’m not sure why people are screaming she’s broken now

[deft swallow]

liliam released in a meta that was extremely against her niche, so the only option they had for her to gain any play rate amonst the majority of players was to buff her. Perhaps they just overdid it a little bit, but coming from SW, its not uncommon for a character with much higher rarity to be a little stronger than the rest

[west tide]

So now bruisers will need to pick between LH and Amber which is good to have

[fleet sky]

If the data consists of casuals complaining then yeah, they're going to buff her to satisfy the majority stuck on farming stages

idk about those PvP buffs though

[mortal jacinth]

They came up with their design intention while smoking 98% pure prehistoric era crack excavated from jars in a shipwreck from the Mariana Trench

[harsh inlet]

100% hp seal 😐

[uneven juniper]

Liliam honestly was like mid A tier before. Prob mid S, high S if heavily invested though tbh I still think current state Holden is better

[stiff mango]

Both casuals and top 10 rta players arent so far from each other we are all cry babies

[errant sphinx]

99% hp seal, deal or no deal

[slow cedar]

[stark mantle]

because she can be on bloodbath too

[placid ingot]

LH and Amber not gonna heal anything

[bronze kindle]

100% hp seal sounds pretty good

[deft swallow]

its not gonna fuck up the game balance, people will just learn to play around her instead now, instead of the liliam mains trying day and night to cook up the next build

[mortal jacinth]

Because bloodbath was already the only game in town and now it's even more so

[harsh inlet]

play around is ban her

[deft swallow]

thats one way to do it, but I doubt its gonna be the only way

[ruby perch]

hoden still stronger ya

[bronze kindle]

U can put bb on lilliam too 😉

[ruby perch]

s2 is broken

it lands and you cant play at low ranks

[harsh inlet]

low rank u eat any aoe and get cleaved

[west tide]

That was S0! Now low rank is all bruisers

[harsh inlet]

is it?

[odd hound]

Don't worry guysss the devs all play the game, they also debate each other for any tiny changes to the game

[west tide]

Yeah and it was toxic if you don’t have bruisers

[errant sphinx]

Yeah

[harsh inlet]

I climbed to plat recently most games were rev cleavers still

[stiff mango]

I would say around 50/50

[ruby perch]

lucky

[fleet sky]

Dev didn't pull Diting so he buffed Liliam

[vast rain]

isn't top 200 rta still like high plat or something

[placid ingot]

Low rank in current S1 is not low rank at the tail end of S0

[mortal jacinth]

I feel bad for Chris every time he comes in and goes "yeah I didn't know they were doing this guys" after they push some crazy bullshit

[placid ingot]

Many are still climbing up

[west tide]

Not having a protect pick sucks too because you need to draft 2 dps or else your solo dps gets banned… but then they just ban your support and you’re stuck with 2 dps 😭

[harsh inlet]

yeah I mean before plat

gold and below was 95% cleave

for me at least

[west tide]

Lucky you… I would have preferred that

[bronze kindle]

Plat sucks can't preban cant protect ban

[stiff mango]

Yeah from below gold i agree

[west tide]

It was a pain… I needed a lucky streak to get to diamond and that glorious extra ban/protect!

[stiff mango]

When i made the argument that her kit is overpacked (by design, which she was both being a CC counter and HP counter) before her release i got comments
WHO she is power creeping?

Xd

Or wait for the numbers

[harsh inlet]

the wait for numbers is reasonable

[stiff mango]

When these are 2 clearly different things the fundamental design whst a character is trying to achieve and her balance and she was clearly overtunrd

[harsh inlet]

but yeah as a concept is 100% overtuned but u need to see the numbers

maybe she's not that good at it which is the balance for her

[stiff mango]

IT would be much healthier if they changed the ult for again something punishing CC and just left her as a CC counter unit just the best at IT instead of also putting HP lock to make her a generalist

[harsh inlet]

like geninuly what is massiah now?

he can't cleave bb

and is garabage vs cc

[stiff mango]

Yeah but you know he isn't the problem the bb is

At least form my perspective

[harsh inlet]

yeah but his kit is just pure dmg

[stiff mango]

Now people even here assume build everything on bb

[harsh inlet]

0 utility

and he can't do enough dmg

[odd hound]

Most DPS are squishy

Mass has one turn invincible but even that is cope

[stiff mango]

Aaa XD reset event fodder 💀

[west tide]

I mean will she really be that horrible outside of bruisers? Her S3 actual damage didn’t increase much… I have seen BB Liliam leave like 20-30% HP on supports without BB… then she dies…now vs bruisers she will be awesome!

[stiff mango]

Yeah she at least bandaid fixed for now

The drafts

[harsh inlet]

she doesn't die with law bb build

and she was already killing squishy targets with it

[west tide]

I mean almost anyone kills squishy targets… heck Holden counters and they die

That’s on your turn too

[harsh inlet]

I don't what u guys are feedin ure holden

yeah he does dmg but os with one counter?

I've seen multiple ppl mention it too

[west tide]

Holden hits so hard

Specially if his first hit proc def down

Like easy 10-15k on a counter. I’d def down procs early probably close to 20k

[karmic gazelle]

idk if this liliam fixed will change her that much

[west tide]

Vs bruisers it’s a huge change

[karmic gazelle]

but its only 50% dmg increase right

[west tide]

Outside of bruisers? Meh it’s not a big damage boost

[west tide]

It’s the 100% HP seal

[karmic gazelle]

oh

lets see

[west tide]

Bruisers plays the long game by healing back to full… now they have to play with 25-40% HP after her S3

[harsh inlet]

just kill the healers with her

[west tide]

Which’s makes them a lot easier to kill after your initial burst

[harsh inlet]

there is no way they will survive 2 hits

[river jolt]

Combo the 2. She seals 150% more HP than before

[karmic gazelle]

so whoever gets to pick her first wins?

[river jolt]

Bans exist

[mossy steeple]

lmao

dev just gona crazy

[west tide]

Not really

She just does much better bruisers now

[river jolt]

She's single target though so she's not perfect

[west tide]

Other builds is still the same

[river jolt]

We actually lack strong ST like her

[mossy steeple]

im talking about pvp yeah

[karmic gazelle]

I see, thanks for the explanation guys im not really good at calcuation

[mossy steeple]

not pve

[west tide]

Like cleave will kill her still