Dreamscape did not fix the economy the CEO PROMISED

[lucid flint]

There's effort in literally nothing, all recolors, reused assets, lazyness just seeps out of this game and it's sad man, it had, (still has some) potential.

[nova spade]

i rather see something than not

[grizzled matrix]

nobody actually wants 50/50 back on banners. people are just so tilted by etheria that they go far enough to say this, this is just showing the state of players mental right now its on the floor

[lethal swallow]

solution is pretty easy, just like shells, put 70% invested coins back if you sell it

[gusty plank]

I just don’t see how any decision they made is defendable

[lethal swallow]

easy as that

[tough vortex]

||0.001||

[jolly nymph]

@snow frost why don't just remove the 2 matrix modules out of inferno? What negative impact would this have?

[inner pebble]

this, framing is everything. Right now if you see this you know there is a chance of getting 1-3 shards, so everyone EXPECTS 1 shard per box

[desert crystal]

wrong topic

[gusty plank]

This^^

[lethal swallow]

also wrong take

[gusty plank]

This is event only discussion

[lethal swallow]

getting low quality gear is normal, as it is in any gacha, we have no problem with that

[gusty plank]

Amen

[grizzled matrix]

i havent chimed in on that cuz hot take 2 modules cant leave

also in the future i expect a higher diff than inferno

wayyy in the future

if we survive that long

[south shard]

we won't lol

[lethal swallow]

@snow frost
Please ask Jack why do we not get %70 back on gears just like shells when we sell them (or even a lower value but at least something sustainable)

[nova spade]

cant barely 100% inferno content, imagine if inferno 2 drop

and it still drop 2 matrix 2 sub

[south shard]

even GUMI gachas are more generous than this and GUMI is known for being one of the worst

[gusty plank]

This event is just disrespectful because it says everyone’s effort is not equal. An event is not made to make players feel bad. So many casuals only play games for the events and dopamine

This event does opposite.

[inner pebble]

it will just be one matrix, one sub

[gusty plank]

No dopamine, you aren’t sure what a winning box is

You just feel losing

[glacial leaf]

You dont get dopamine going through purple portal?

[gusty plank]

I choose yellow. I’m not a sadist

[wheat oyster]

100% it’ll come in the future in Inferno 2 etc

[lethal swallow]

yeah it will be called Infernah

[desert crystal]

it's called Abyss

[gusty plank]

XD

[frosty ore]

Hey we have 2 event 1 is pay 2 win, guess what the second one is pay to win too

[south shard]

same, instead of a chance of receiving maybe less shitty rewards or nothing, i chose shitty rewards but guaranteed

[gusty plank]

It’s not p2w tho lol

[lucid flint]

Devs forgetting that this is a game... a gacha game where the space is so crowded, people aren't gonna wait around to see your long term vision

[frosty ore]

Tell me

[glacial leaf]

Which events

[frosty ore]

How is it not pay 2 win

[gusty plank]

The event is not p2w. It’s pay to gamble.

[frosty ore]

When you can just buy key

[grizzled matrix]

the rewards for the cost isnt spectacular

[frosty ore]

And have more round

[grizzled matrix]

and the time

[gusty plank]

The key gives nothing

But rng

[autumn kestrel]

i agree with this

[lethal swallow]

actually no,
we are forgetting that this is not a game, it is just something for devs to earn $$$

[kindred marsh]

yikes

[grizzled matrix]

its 900 gems for another go at the boss

[wheat oyster]

The worst form of P2W lol

[grizzled matrix]

you dont get a huge amount back tbh

[snow frost]

the only thing I can say is that you are basing everything off a limited sample pool of assumptions when you don't know the actual rates of anything, so you claiming that these boxes have the same rng as your local casino slots doesnt make sense

If they claimed this event was the most generous, and put hours and hours into testing it, they wouldn't be making that claim for no reason. Some people got unlucky today, others got pretty lucky, others found themselves in the middle. I've seen it all.

Again, the rng is likely favorable to be generous by the end of the event compared to other events we've had because of their direct testing and comments about it. You trying to say this is impossible because of your experience at your local casino and basing it all off assumptions doesn't hold weight... Of course not everyone is going to get the same exact rewards as some may get a bit luckier (still common in many other gacha game events), but what the devs claimed is that the baseline rewards by the end will be more generous than any other event so far. They wouldn't say that if it was possible to get shit rewards every single day in a row.

What all of this doesn't mean though is that it is fun. It also doesn't mean you aren't right to be scared and criticize the rng especially when you don't know the rates. It's clear events shouldn't be handled in this direction. Event rewards should feel rewarding if you are active, not give you anxiety when the rng already comes in other areas.

[frosty ore]

Wow , key mean nothing that doesn’t mean it’s nothing

[lucid flint]

buying the keys with gems is some diabolical work.

[jolly nymph]

One thing is to get bad equipment, another thing is to come one that you will never use because the game depends on closing modules and not closing a set like in honkai, genshin, ww

We need to do 12/12 and not 3 momentum equipment to make the effect work

[lethal swallow]

bro that message was like from 15 min ago

[frosty ore]

You stil can pay to get more stuff

[desert crystal]

dream data is not rng 🤔

[gusty plank]

No one knows the rates….therefore we all assume losing

[grizzled matrix]

i have to bring up something though

[snow frost]

read what I wrote before responding

[grizzled matrix]

regarding event rewards and rng and average excepted generousity or not

[gusty plank]

It’s also not fun

[snow frost]

read what i wrote before responding

[gusty plank]

I can read bud

[lethal swallow]

there are equipment you can use as 2x matrix
any 8 set matrixes you can use
also any swiftspeed 2x you can use

[snow frost]

literally said both of those things

why are you telling it to me

[gusty plank]

I did.

[snow frost]

😭

I made those two exact points at the end

[kindred marsh]

im going to be completely honest...i got 17 fragments and heavy high rolled. the event just felt so void of effort.

[snow frost]

and you are still trying to argue with me

[desert crystal]

even if one player feels unlucky out of the entire playerbase it's already too much

[snow frost]

?

[gusty plank]

You legit start last point with “it is fun”

[snow frost]

exactly keser

[gusty plank]

Da hell?

[fluid pewter]

This C guy is str8 regarded and he wants to get fresh with the customers lol

[snow frost]

I said

it isnt fun

[fluid pewter]

what a jerk face

[gusty plank]

Fix your typos and grammar

[snow frost]

I'm agreeing with everyone here

[frosty ore]

I mean isn’t a static reward better than a rng reward

?

[grizzled matrix]

so, the event rewards are based on layers of rng that also involve decision making
i wonder what the devs base the average expected rewards for a player is
because if they misjudge what an average player might choose, the player could be earning quite a bit less than expected
resulting in.......?

this is mostly about events being vague on what you even expect to result from ur choices

which is generally not a factor in games that dont do rng event rewards and let people clear shop - everyone happy! nobody feels like they lost anything!

[snow frost]

"What all of this doesn't mean though is that it is fun. "

[jolly nymph]

Yes, but in the same way you can do 3/3/2, because it just couldn't be 3/3/3, and the sets with which they are 6/12? How are they?

[snow frost]

that is correct grammar

please read

I'm literally on your side

[snow frost]

yes and I made this point

[kindred marsh]

https://tenor.com/view/keyand-peele-sips-tea-with-class-sassy-drink-gif-16506250

[snow frost]

I agree with all of you

[uneven tundra]

I don't mean to sound like an ass when I ask this, but these other games with RNG events, are they successful PvP gacha games? I'm asking because my experience comes from E7 and Summoners War, and from the time I played them they were not like that.

[frosty ore]

You have 7 stage of rng. And then reward is rng again

[lucid flint]

It literallty doesn't matter what the rates are. If for some they are great and for others they get bent over, who actually cares? Just make it fixed, reward the players time and effort they put into the game, your (the company/dev team) game. Why make it painful? Why make it a chance? Why make it pay to win? (gamble)... Like come on man.

[frosty ore]

What is wrong with this design

[wheat oyster]

Big of a tangent but we can buy keys for crystals so these are paid loot boxes.

Might be worth mentioning to the devs that some jurisdictions the game’s released in legally require rates to be listed for loot boxes like that.

[snow frost]

why are you guys arguing with me before reading the end points I made that are exactly this

😭

[snow frost]

will mention that

[south shard]

especially in EU. most countries have lws exactly for the type of shit the devs are pulling here because it is just straight up predatory to the max

[kindred marsh]

they probably dont want to mention the rates

[gusty plank]

That’s a huge topic not sure of. It’s borderline legal

[snow frost]

all I Was saying is that the claims about this event will let players get no rewards by the end

are still wrong

[inner pebble]

its fine etheria is a gacha they can also gamble with the law

[lethal swallow]

just saying this event rewards will be more generous than any other events so far is meaningless when "other events" actually didn't give much rewards to start with

most of the events, you couldnt even clear shop which is a regular thing for gacha games. If you are active daily, 99% of the gachas let you clear the shop

[gusty plank]

No one arguing rewards are bad

[lucid flint]

You are trying to defend the event with "You don't know the rates yet" bro the bottom line is, the rates don't matter, why is it RNG in the first place?

[snow frost]

exactly and im bringing this up today

[gusty plank]

It’s the rng controlling amount gotten and how it’s achieved lll

[snow frost]

you were complaining directly to me that "it's possible for a player to end the event getting nothing" "you don't know how a casino works idiot"

[frosty ore]

And 300 gem for a key , just how bad you want causal to leave the game

[snow frost]

so I was responding to that

[lucid flint]

Every event up to this one, can barely be called an event

[snow frost]

while also agreeing with you on all of the pain points

[gusty plank]

Yes. It’s possible to get nothing

It’s so rare

But fact that exists? Insane

[snow frost]

you can't say it's so rare though

when you dont know

was my point

[gusty plank]

Exactly!

[glacial leaf]

Weeel if you look the rune +6 event on sw there is looot of rng what ppl get when upgrading to 15 same with e7 mo summons some get dupes some get op chars

Just saying

[snow frost]

so wait until the end of the event before you say that and make those big claims

[south shard]

events are nothing but bandaids to a problem the devs refuse to aknowledge. instead of favouring fun the devs are pushing anxiety

[snow frost]

but criticize everything else

[grizzled matrix]

im still saying though, since its a rng event with an average expected value (that should be generous)
this relies on players making the choices devs expect to reach this average expected result
you can see where this is gonna start falling apart right

[fluid pewter]

c over here setting the rules for our feelings and criticism lol

[gusty plank]

Like I said a person that gets 10 shards versus person getting 5. Who was lucky! Both? Neither?

[fluid pewter]

As tonedeaf as this whole experience has been.

[kindred marsh]

giant difference is a) the reward is top tier (at the time) and b) these events take ~60 days

[fluid pewter]

peace

[snow frost]

they are giving huge claims about stuff that are untrue

[inner pebble]

again, framing is everything. The event is sold as generous, players EXPECT to be showered in loot. Yet when they finally get to that point they get a random amount and on average they have mainly gotten nothing they wouldnt have already gotten from doing a phantom theatre. Thats the disparity

[snow frost]

and im also agreeing with the other things everyone else is saying

[charred fractal]

Yall know there is a second shoo that guarentee stuff... So maybe focus on that than

[grizzled matrix]

this game really just gives lots of room for people to make mistakes because they didnt treat this game like a job they have to analyze every little thing

[snow frost]

agreed, it's a problem

[gusty plank]

We don’t know amount get there tho

[grizzled matrix]

you cant buy anything without fearing you potentially cost yourself something else

[lethal swallow]

generous events = check e7 anni events
devs will learn simply by logging in to e7 tbh

[gusty plank]

So not safe to buy til end

[south shard]

it is generous, in the eyes of the devs. they advertise 100gems as being generous so you know what to expect

[kindred marsh]

this is probably the overarching issue...you play a gacha and spend money because it turn you are "showered" in loot...this is like 20% of what i expected to be "showered" in

[glacial leaf]

But arent they rng events?

[grizzled matrix]

so even getting stuff comes with a side of pain

[snow frost]

anniversary events will always be.. way more generous

to be fair

😭

[kindred marsh]

stop, you know you are doing this on purpose

[ember horizon]

someone show me a weekly event that on average gives 1.5 perfect lattice

[gusty plank]

This true

[snow frost]

for a game that's been out 7 years

[glacial leaf]

Dont you get pissed when guildie rolls 30spd vio and you get +12 spd

[grizzled matrix]

idk theres 2 different definitions of generous

[lethal swallow]

that is the definition of generous

[lucid flint]

Ani for etheria gonna be one fucking perfect lattice

[lethal swallow]

so dont use the word if you dont mean it

[inner pebble]

i think we should probably refrain from using the word generous for a bit, maybe too soon

[lethal swallow]

say "better rewards than before"

[grizzled matrix]

genshin anni vs cygames anni - 2 very different "generous" going on here

[south shard]

brah, stop the shill. we are right now experienceing what generosity mans in this game. there won't be anything generous IF an anniversary comes

[gusty plank]

I don’t expect 7 year old game generous. We just want transparency and linear rewards

I do x I get y

[snow frost]

core problem. Unforgiving even with events. Can't clear shops or get what uw ant even if u miss one day

[gusty plank]

That’s how events work

Do x

[brisk marsh]

Sorry but you don’t get to compare normal events to anniversaries and your pedantic attempt at semantics don’t change that

[gusty plank]

Earn y

[glacial leaf]

I mean you responded to me out of blue

[lethal swallow]

I'm not comparing them, I'm trying to explain them what generous rewards are

[tough vortex]

Generous ❌ worse than normal ✅

[kindred marsh]

youre on an open thread? is this your first time on the internet?

[marble echo]

guys is my game bugged ?

[gusty plank]

Ya let’s not compare anniversary rewards of 7tear old games

[snow frost]

this is all I was saying

[desert crystal]

get your 200 hydra and max refresh slumbaa

[glacial leaf]

Rng is rng

[lucid flint]

Almost couldn't even get the red shadowprint from the wheel event because I landed on gems too many times, idk man

[snow frost]

but I think most people agree with that

so lets move on

[south shard]

if you are frustrated and confused then no, this is the intended experience

[snow frost]

agreed it feels terrible

[grizzled matrix]

i hit xiada 4 times and it cost me that shadowprint too

[shrewd zinc]

I locked him so I'll never lose him ❤️

[lucid flint]

I've been defending a lot in this game, give you guys time to cook but it's clear everything is burnt and no one is even a chef in the first place

[shrewd zinc]

my very first

[inner pebble]

no, you just got a generous amount of training data

[tough vortex]

Ur still here lol

[marble echo]

that's bis on any unit

[grizzled matrix]

give him a name

[south shard]

why not, it's a good outlet here

[desert crystal]

i was a 1195 currency at the end of this event, couldn't buy the purple lattice 😒

[grizzled matrix]

a special name for himself

[shrewd zinc]

HIs name is Baaa

Dream Baaa

[lethal swallow]

not even triple matrix -_-

[grizzled matrix]

so hes just like every other baaa

[shrewd zinc]

no he is level 40

[snow frost]

the problem is that if they are too generous they will set an expectation where people will get even more upset and you won't ever stop hearing about it if future events dont follow that standard. Eventually ends up with inflating economy too much and can be dangerous and cause them to entirely restructure the endgame economy

[shrewd zinc]

the others will never receive a drop of my credits

[lethal swallow]

so it is Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa(40x)

[snow frost]

and I know gachas, if you give a generous event and then the others that follow arent, you will NEVER stop hearing about it

[shrewd zinc]

and will be recycled never to be seen again

he gets to watch

[snow frost]

so theyre trying to find that balance

[gusty plank]

This extremely true. I’m fine with low rewards. Just they can’t be so random that different players have completely different experiences.

[snow frost]

but doing it with an rng event

was dumb

[grizzled matrix]

idk i remember smilegate getting bend over backwards several times

[gusty plank]

That

[south shard]

dude. the economy is in shambles rn. what people want is to have a working baseline so the game doesn't feel so extremely starved and then actually feel rewarded in events. you are completely missing the point

[grizzled matrix]

and results were great all around

[snow frost]

I'm not at all

you are missing my point

[gusty plank]

This sums up every issue lol

[lucid flint]

Oh look it's the dumbest way to "fix" the shell economy, could've just removed yellows, boosted the income from the kills, this way you get more credits and red shells, but nah bro gotta get that dumb fucking sheep.

[marble echo]

how do you feel knowing that you killed 175 other baas to make that one baa level 40

[snow frost]

clearly the economy is not healthy right now, but also overinflating it can be dangerous. That is all I said

[grizzled matrix]

e7 annual apology was great

[lethal swallow]

you are missing the point
generous rewards for etheria would mean like multiple golden lattices, 5-10 red shadowprintts, 30-40 pulls etc. You are just giving maybe 30-40% more rewards and calling them generous
that is the problem

[south shard]

your point is "wait and see" when people are sick of not seeing any improvements for the matters that frustrate them

[kindred marsh]

lol okay, pump the brakes a little

[gusty plank]

Seems fine to me

[marble echo]

your standard of generous is out of this world my man

[snow frost]

yes because the only point ive ever made is wait and see

[ember horizon]

give these people the economy sliders. surely they will fix it!

[shrewd zinc]

What did my Baaa ever do to u?

[snow frost]

it's not like ive ever said anything else

other than wait and see

[tough vortex]

Overflow is dangerous yeah weird

[lethal swallow]

what will you call your rewards when it is to 100days or half anni "giga super omega rewrads"

[brisk marsh]

We’re baa buddies!

[snow frost]

ur right thats all I ever said

[shrewd zinc]

LOOL

[charred fractal]

Yesh wait and see

[grizzled matrix]

a pair of Baaaddies

[shrewd zinc]

Lvl 40 Baaa gang applications

[fluid pewter]

Just wait and see, they will totally turn this game around at the end of the year

Oh crap they made it worse, just give them another year

[lucid flint]

Actually wild that people representing the company think this is all a joke

[tough vortex]

Into?

[fluid pewter]

keep playing the game like it's a fulltime job

[wheat oyster]

From the rates I’ve been seeing if the keys were 100 instead of 300 I think you could pull on the crystal box and go currency neutral.

Then F2P could buy out as much of the shop as you get from max keys and would feel much more rewarded.

Spenders still get the chance to instead roll for more lattice frags and can progress their account further

[snow frost]

this is something we want to fix in the short term, but that also doesnt mean overinflating it OR taking 4 months to fix it

[gusty plank]

It’s been 45 days.

[jolly nymph]

???? An event that WAS SAID to be more generous, can't comply with this because the other normal events will have to follow the pattern? Wouldn't it just be to differentiate which events will give more rewards than normal ones? It's not because this "gives more" that others have to give too, it's just that they talk, no one will expect anything if they don't say, now if they say it will be very generous, then it will create expectation, so it's simply not creating

[gusty plank]

Sadly game developers don’t change things fast. Nothing new

[grizzled matrix]

im gonna say that even if the keys were 100 i dont wanna grind 10 hours more. 42 keys x 15 mins each

[gusty plank]

The event is all
Auto content too sadly

[inner pebble]

i bought 6 keys and only got gem boxes. I was negative 300 gems roughly. Someone in my union did the same and was negative 200

[grizzled matrix]

can i pay for convenience not inconvenience thank you

[marble echo]

i kinda like that it cost 300 cause then it's so prohibitive most people wouldnt even bother

[gusty plank]

Same

[inner pebble]

but once the gem boxes run out, ggs

[south shard]

who is "we"? If you are a person responsible for incoming fixes your words here are very forboding. "wait and see" instead of "we see what drives the community and this is how we want to adress that" is so incredibly lost

[marble echo]

so i dont feel like im missing out

[snow frost]

I work for the company but I am not a developer please stop cherrypicking everything

when I've been here agreeing and fighting for everyone's points

and also have plans to talk about them with devs tonight

[south shard]

just to be clear c, i do not want to attack you. but your communication here is so out of touch rn

[ember horizon]

you all run with fucking any communication as gospel and have these grand notions in ur head then complain to the moon when they dont reach ur abnormally high expectations

[grizzled matrix]

well you get gems back not in full but you get all the other stuff that comes with it so its not neg value (idk about after the gem boxes run out tho)

[ember horizon]

they should stop communicating with you all tbh

so you cant be upset

[grizzled matrix]

you lose time tho

[gusty plank]

The other stuff has like no value though

[fluid pewter]

People want to see action, they don't want a discord mod to tell us we are wrong

[brisk marsh]

SEMBU IS HERE get those clowns rolling king

[tough axle]

You know there is a very easy solution which is to increase the floor of the rewards while decreasing the ceiling. So people get similar rewards instead of someone getting an extra lattice with another barely getting 1

[charred fractal]

Tell them the keys are too expensive thats a that matters for now its first day of the event i will see what i get at end

[grizzled matrix]

eh you get a small chunk of coins from boxes

[kindred marsh]

hes not saying you're wrong, but we are saying you are crying like a toddler

[gusty plank]

I just want Ethernet rally fixed lol

[grizzled matrix]

idk if all that extra stuff is worth the gem cost though, because i cant calculate what to expect out of a box

[lucid flint]

Temu chefs in the kitchen, sad times man

[grizzled matrix]

so i cant even math out if the keys are worth it

[gusty plank]

This resets rally can’t be right

[marble echo]

AHAHAHAHA, i remember that guy, he clown emoted everyone in chat

[wheat oyster]

Who’s he equipped on?

[snow frost]

the rng is likely quite favorable so I doubt this is an issue. We just wont know until a few more days go by since there are no rates posted and that's an issue along with the rng in general

[marble echo]

but he does make a great point tho

[frosty ore]

300 gems for a key = 1 lattice fragment

[solid spire]

This. The event was harped to be a "fix to the economy", so when it's blatantly not, devs should answer for their misleading statements/lies and correct their mistakes fast before more players leave the game. There is no grey area here because the event was described as such but failed to be such.

[shrewd zinc]

no one

[grizzled matrix]

we just have to trust 300 gems for a key doesnt go neg but we also cant tell what to actaully expect out of it and if we value that stuff

like for example some packs i value differently than the shop values it at bc i only care about particular parts of it

like in reverse99 for example i calculated all packs looking at pulls only the rest of that shit was fluff with no value

[tough axle]

If there’s no rates how do you know they are favorable

[gusty plank]

We don’t

[ember horizon]

why do you expect the keys on average to give you more than 300 crystals back... ur spending a premium currency

[grizzled matrix]

here they add stuff like...module shop currency LOL

[inner pebble]

[ember horizon]

and expect to get more back? + other stuff

[glacial leaf]

Silver and training data no value? What game r you playing

[snow frost]

no one knows the rng and is making all of these assumptions based on one day. I've seen so many people get lucky or at least moderately lucky and also some people who didn't get much.

by the end of the week it SHOULD be an event that gives way more than other events because they tested it thoroughly and made claims based off the rng they chose to implement

but again you guys wont be able to know that until a few days or by the end of event

and that sucks

it's not fun

it's anxiety inducing

[gusty plank]

23m data and 17m silver

[snow frost]

it's unfulfilling

[grizzled matrix]

but also see each day that i dont buy the keys i might be missing out

[snow frost]

but it also doesnt mean their claims are incorrect yet

[lethal swallow]

it only shows insincerity when you hide your rewards behind rng boxes
there is no way to defend that, the only reason to do it to trick your players

[gusty plank]

That’s it lol

[wheat oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/shakes-head-saturday-night-live-smh-disappointed-wow-gif-7424224301476883123

[grizzled matrix]

or i might be getting scammed if i buy it

i have to make a decision at the end of each day before reset to go for it or not

more stressful shit for no reason!

[snow frost]

which is the only thing ive disagreed with in here with people

[ember horizon]

na their first 20 pull of boxes is gospel and if they go poorly surely they are just awful

[snow frost]

if youre going to rage at least rage about the right thing that holds weight until you know you the situation better

[grizzled matrix]

like we can wait till event to find out but that means ive already either bought all the keys or missed out on all the keys

[gusty plank]

I mean I’m 100 boxes in 7 fragments

Lmao

[grizzled matrix]

i have no idea what the result will be in the end until its already happened

[charred fractal]

Skill issue

[snow frost]

200 more might have way different rng

so we'll just have to see

[gusty plank]

I’d assume this. Eli’s avg

Exactly

[tough axle]

@bright locust you’re gonna have to move senbu up in the tier list

[shrewd zinc]

^

[snow frost]

because again I saw people get 12 frags in 20 boxes

[gusty plank]

Thing is it could be average

[grizzled matrix]

so again we're being told to wait and see but we cannot wait in a vacuum we have to still do things in the meantime

[ember horizon]

man do I have to pull up a fucking chart

[gusty plank]

We have no baseline

[grizzled matrix]

people do not have access to a time machine

[snow frost]

yeah no baseline sucks

[nova spade]

people who are getting more reward are using gem to potentially get lootboxes, spending ur currency in an event is not worth it/rewarding, ur average player wont think it's rewarding

the most rewarding event in the game is literally the dazzling event where it take u no effort

[snow frost]

it creates panic

[ember horizon]

with 1% odds to show you 100 boxes means nothign

[grizzled matrix]

we cant peek into the future to address our anxiety that this will all turn out okay

[kindred marsh]

could you also ask why the math changed for lattice vs shadow prints...in US $s, an orange shadow print is $2.5 (according to them) and a lattice is $30. That means per L/D essence in this game, I get 50 cents for shadowprint but each L/D for the 5x lattice fragments is $38.75 cents. Only getting 77.5% value by taking the lattice fragments.

[frosty ore]

That’s the problem , why don’t you make everyone have the same shard amount

[grizzled matrix]

i cant tell if this is a shinking ship until its already sunk

[frosty ore]

I don’t get it

[gusty plank]

It’s just maybe buying keys worth it. We don’t know til too late

[frosty ore]

What is wrong with everyone having the same amount

[gusty plank]

That is painful and yes anxiety.

[frosty ore]

So that people

[ember horizon]

man how come on day 1 i got 1 fragment while he got 10!! THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS /s

[snow frost]

which is why they shouuld reduce it to 100 gems

I think thats way more fair

[kindred marsh]

to my knowledge, this was the first time they increased the relative cost of lattice fragments

[snow frost]

and im bringing that up

[gusty plank]

Tbh ya. 300 is insane lol

[frosty ore]

Who don’t have it will buy300 gems a key

[gusty plank]

3 refills?

[tough axle]

Funny how this event was supposed to be the wait and see.

[bright locust]

Goddamnit i need to make a list of changes for the tier list, can u say this in the tier list feedback? So i dont forget

[snow frost]

i can mention this

[gusty plank]

Ya this was weird

[brisk marsh]

these are grown ass humans saying the game requires too much time because they have jobs and families crying that it's JUST. NOT. FAAAAIIIIIR

[snow frost]

never would have knonw about that

[grizzled matrix]

and it becomes yet another wait and see

just getting strung along

[tough axle]

Now the wait and see after that will have another wait and see

[gusty plank]

Values on packs have been very non linear

[tough vortex]

U cannot change a defender mindset no matter how much u try

[frosty ore]

I mean whatever you say here , you will just have a dev talk 4 and say we hear you and ignore every shit you said for the next month

[snow frost]

im grateful most of yall can understand there is nuance and depth to my points and how I'm trying to gauge this situation.
I'm not just here shilling or only saying "wait". There's so much more to my words.

[gusty plank]

He isn’t defending. He is simply saying understands both sides. He is doing a job. Mediator one could say

[solid spire]

Thanks Christian, that'd be a great change. Also, sidetracking here; just wondering if the devs have replied to you about target summon reset/regret or banner reruns? A lot of players including CCs like Volkin do not have Kloss and this is affecting PvE progression by a lot.

[kindred marsh]

for clarification, this is not related to buying packs..it is just a baseline for the value of the shop.

[snow frost]

I'll ask about that, but I think they will be focused on new animus for a while

[tough vortex]

I was saying about sembu there

[snow frost]

thats a commo nquestion though

[cosmic saddle]

Crazy

[grizzled matrix]

his job is to communicate and hes passing along what the devs/company's stance on things is, its not necessarily his own opinion

[snow frost]

I had that written down

[grizzled matrix]

saying this for certain people

who cant tell the diff

[gusty plank]

lol we knew that

[snow frost]

but I'm also not letting people attack them over things they have no weight behind

if people have weight behind their critique, by all means

[brisk marsh]

hes not a whale at less than 5k lmao

[lethal swallow]

I guess we wont have to wait and see 🙂

[snow frost]

but making big claims about stuff that they dont know is true yet can spread a ton of lies and misinfo around

[grizzled matrix]

well i cant care about companies getting slandered but i do see how it feeds into very unhelpful doomspiral where no proper discussion can be held

cuz nobody focusing anymore

[nova spade]

all in yellow or purple guys

[snow frost]

bc if people slander the event and rng just because they were unlucky day 1 but by the end of the event end up with way more rewards than any other event

it doesnt mean the devs lied

[grizzled matrix]

and just turn into parrots

[snow frost]

yea

[stray mesa]

i just went all yellow

[snow frost]

thank u

[gusty spoke]

alll in yellow duck

[snow frost]

ive written down some good constructive points though

[brisk marsh]

always yellow unless you're an rng god

[snow frost]

from those who have been helpful here

[tough axle]

Yellow. Purple is a scam

[gusty spoke]

my guildie got SSS on all in yellow

[grizzled matrix]

go yellow guys purple aint worth

[gusty spoke]

so you just got to pray

[gusty plank]

Devs didn’t lie, they are just on a different route and understanding.

[snow frost]

has anyone gone purple and gotten lucky 💀

[grizzled matrix]

thats the thing

[gusty plank]

Nah keep trying tho lol

[grizzled matrix]

even if you are getting lucky with purple

[lethal swallow]

do you plan to have a talk with Jack or do you have a scheduled meeting?

[snow frost]

yeah and it's hard to make it clear to players when they can't see it yet and are already fatigued

[nova spade]

bruh

[tough axle]

Flannel got 100% purple run

Got less than me

[grizzled matrix]

you are barely doing better than yellow going steady

[tough axle]

[glacial leaf]

When do we get highlight video hopefully not one day before

[snow frost]

we're calling tonight just me and him

[lethal swallow]

so it is 100% right?

[snow frost]

yes

[grizzled matrix]

winning in purple doesnt feel good until ur winning the most extreme %

[lethal swallow]

we should expect some answers/feedback return tomorrow or soon

[gusty plank]

I think everyone impatient because there are so many people (CC) giving input that gets ignored

[worthy spire]

playing as intended, all in gamble

[lethal swallow]

everyone is impatient because we cant even play the game

[bright locust]

I mean ill share a thought about this @snow frost but

The event is objectively bad, not subjectively,

You cant say “just win the lottery, and youll see the rewards are good” its like ?

I could make a gacha with characters drop rate being 0.00000001%, its objectively bad even if someone gets it because they got hyper lucky?

Correct me if im wrong about your stance but thats how i hear you rn

[distant bay]

I had one run where I went purple, got the event where it doubles your next 2 drops, then got the roulette wheel and rolled 8k, did the 50/50 to get 16k (32k total), then got the event where you get 10k up front and then lose some every room. Ended with 73k end of run. Forgot to SS

[gusty plank]

I’m playing! Ethernet rally reset lol

[stray mesa]

yea i was like " meh its not that deep.. imma just slac and go all yellow like a bum"

[grizzled matrix]

so far by what im seeing even on bad/mid rng the stuff you gets pretty good

[snow frost]

cant really make claims like this without knowing the rng is my only point

[grizzled matrix]

not like INSANE but pretty good

[warm folio]

No offense but professional design practices have no need for user solutioneering, and it's often a waste of time to consider them. People telling you how something makes them feel and saying what they want in more general terms is a fantastic qualitative resource on its own. If they're needing players to suggest specific solutions, that's a huge problem

[snow frost]

yeah and then the ones who get reallllly bad rng are prob just unlucky but it will balance out by the end pretty well

doesnt mean its not bad design though and feels terrible for players who are anxious and fatigued

[wheat oyster]

I like how getting good RNG on currency drops gives you a higher “strategy” rating 🤣

[inner pebble]

its not like the rates are gonna change overnight unless they patch it. Lets say as an arbitrary number you have a 1% chance to get the lattice fragments from the lattice box every time. It doesnt matter if you open 1 or 500, its still 1% everytime and thats where the issue is. Its pure chance everytime, there is no averaging out its still chance, its rng

[tough vortex]

Then why not say what's the rng is tell use the drop rates then we can know the rng c

[warm folio]

And "just inject more into the economy" and "lessen RNG" are both extremely clear suggestions

[bright locust]

Are the rates not shown for the boxes? (Legit asking cus i didnt play that event) but itd be hella disingenuous of the devs to not include the drop rates

[brisk marsh]

i didnt read it but youre wrong

[grizzled matrix]

i dont wanna say at least cuz ppl might think u can get more you wont

[bright locust]

Hi baby girl

[tough vortex]

Only devs know the rates

[ember horizon]

wat...

[marble echo]

i dont get this point at all, the event gives you rewards. Seems like when its all said and done, more than any other events give rewards. So for me personally it's not bad

[lucid flint]

C... it doesn't matter what the rates are bro... if someone can get a lot less or even nothing than another person, it's bad.

[grizzled matrix]

or buy the summons and skip fragments idk

[brisk marsh]

vampy rage quit so i'm all yours now

[snow frost]

not shown and thats why people are upset

[gusty plank]

He acknowledged this

[warm folio]

"Just give out more" and "remove RNG" are only unworkable because XD insists they're unworkable, and users have no responsibility to respect restrictions like "we don't want to give out more currency"

[lucid flint]

Okay, so why is he defending it based on the potential rates??

[snow frost]

It is still healthy and fun for everyone baseline by the end of the event getting great rewards but then those who got extra lucky got a bit more than the others

[gusty plank]

He isn’t

[snow frost]

there's nothing wrong with that

[tough axle]

It’s his job

[grizzled matrix]

cuz unless you do a buncha research its quite vague how much you're getting and how much you should expect to get

[shrewd mantle]

maybe knowing would aleviate a lot of the uncertainty and perception ...

[grizzled matrix]

its just all very hazy

[bright locust]

Thats understandable, devs shouldve shown the drop rates and been honest before saying this event was gonna be a good way to get lots of ressources

You cant say “its gonna be good guys”

Then hide the rates and ppl notice its shit, of course ppl will be mad

[shrewd viper]

new animus.. why tho, fix the eco first tbh and make the event more "generous". thats what ppl are trying to seek for

[snow frost]

the only thing im doing is saying the claims about "getting nothing" have no base

[gusty plank]

I’d be fine getting trash rewards if knew chance for trash lol

[snow frost]

but clearly people are saying that bc no rng rates are visible

[gusty plank]

Show me 1% chance lattice and I’ll accept it

[snow frost]

yeah even if the rates are good and generous ppl will still be mad because it's a guessing game of anxiety

[warm folio]

I'm gonna be honest, it doesn't matter what the rates are, this takes way too much time for what we get in return

[snow frost]

at least for the first 1-2 days

[lucid flint]

Just clear the devs have zero idea what they are doing

[brisk marsh]

thats what the loud complainers are seeking for, there are also people just quietly playing the game

[tough axle]

Nah just go left side

[marble echo]

so like we can just play the event first right ? and see if it's actually as bad as we thought

[tough vortex]

2 days of a 6 days event ok

[tough axle]

Over in 10 min

[shrewd viper]

yea if theres any rng thing, game should tell you how much percent you'll get the desired item. and dont forget, pity

[tough vortex]

So 4 days worth of rewards after figuring out all rng?

[ember horizon]

you guys think its 1% chance but its like most definitely not.

[shrewd viper]

fr. im tired gooning to etheria at this point tbh

[gusty plank]

I’m just gonna max keys each day and compare to my f2p account

See what gap is

[warm folio]

I'll be going left side from now on because someone indulged their fetish on the right side and product managers allowed it to ship but it shouldn't take that long anyway

[gusty plank]

And post here

[snow frost]

because of their claims about it being the most generous event so far, I'm sure there is a baseline minimum or soft pity

[shrewd mantle]

for all we know it could be 1% or 5% ...the max is 300 boxes for the lattice. Are we going to be able to get 300 boxes ?

[grizzled matrix]

in a classic event shop, i see 50k coins purchasable 100 times i know i can get 5m coins bc the whole shop is clearable if i keep on top of event

in this event i have a some dust, idk how much i can earn, and boxes that cost 4k, but idk how much to get out of the box
i open 10 boxes with my daily dust
i get 150k coins
i have no idea if i got lucky or unlucky
i have no idea how many boxes i can even buy by the end
i feel like shit

[bright locust]

I can get that but if collectively the majority of ppl are showing bad rates, its prob not because most were unlucky, its just the rates are bad regardless no?

Now yes even the rates were decided to be shown NOW ppl would be upset because the premise of the event was to be resourceful but it doesnt seem to be

[gusty plank]

I think the soft pity is the actual shop

[shrewd mantle]

you're sure or you know?

[ember horizon]

this is 100% selection bias

[lethal swallow]

guys the rates are good, it will gonna work out in the long run
that is why devs didnt reveal the % chance of getting items, it is only for your own good
believe in the devs, they always delivered 🙂

[inner pebble]

does it matter? the rates still the same for every box

[shrewd viper]

prolly make it more transparent for the percentage next time

[wheat oyster]

This is a good summation. Even if the rates are good. The event still feels bad

[bright locust]

Could be 100%, but unless we have the rates shown from incoding and not just words, its all we can base our opinion on, and its the whole point of feedback

[tough vortex]

I can forgive them only cause of infinity train nerf

[lethal swallow]

It was sarcasm sorry

wasnt my intention

[shrewd viper]

"it is only for your own good"

jawdrops

[shrewd mantle]

it does matter, what @c is saying is that "we don't know the rates so at the end the bad and good luck will be balanced" ... if the odds are ass (for example 1%) you can perfectly spend the whole week pulling for boxes and losing

[snow frost]

all I'm saying is they wouldnt make the claim its more generous than other events if there wasn't a baseline that was higher. Some may get EVEN MORE because of pure luck, but the baseline should be higher in general. It's just hard to tell and there's a lot of small sample size bias rn even though most people are getting good or decent rewards on day 1

[inner pebble]

just wait a few days, you are over reacting. You dont know the rates

[snow frost]

this just wouldnt happen is my point

they wouldnt make that claim at all if it was possible to get less rewards than other events by the end

there has to be some baseline of the rng

[lethal swallow]

samool already posted the data from buying all keys
wait for what?

[snow frost]

but obviously it still feels like shit and is scary especially right now if you're unlucky on day 1

[charred fractal]

Where?

[gusty plank]

The real story right now is Ethernet rally boys

[grizzled matrix]

wait and see followed by wait and see followed by more wait and see
what do you expect people to do in the meantime? dont play the game while waiting?

[inner pebble]

thats like saying. Go buy a lottery ticket every week for 50 years, eventually you will win

[gusty plank]

Good luck on using only red/blue lol

[lethal swallow]

#1395228216632803468 message

[snow frost]

yeah, the anxiety comes from no one really knowing if theyre getting lucky or unlucky or what they should spend on etc

it's not fun

[tough vortex]

So the luckier people on day 1 moving forward will get unluckier is that what you are saying in a sample space

[uneven tundra]

I think the problem with this statement, is that it implies trust in the dev team, something that most of us don't really have.

[brisk marsh]

what else do you want? realistically those are your only options - wait and play, wait and don't play, or just move on

[grizzled matrix]

but i think the rng factor makes the baseline something nobody believes in

[inner pebble]

its a joke

[snow frost]

clearly but they have never outright just lied. Only underdelivered on things unfortunately

so I can trust them on that

[inner pebble]

already finished, its easy

[grizzled matrix]

what baseline is there in rng, theres always gonna be unlucky people and everyone is afraid of that

[gusty plank]

Ss

[snow frost]

yeah but the unlucky people should still be getting more rewards than other events

which is their claim

[ember horizon]

people heard potentially 10-20k for the new shell. if it wasnt 20k the perception was doomed

[snow frost]

and then the lucky ones will get even more

[grizzled matrix]

yeah i believe that

the issue is also people dont trust the devs idea of "generous"

[snow frost]

yeah unfortuantely this is how it goes and why there's also so much developer anxiety and stress

[ember horizon]

goes back to you all take anything as gospel for the top end of a suggestion and think surely it will be better than that

[grizzled matrix]

because 2 peanuts is much more generous than 1 peanut but im dying of starvatino over here

https://tenor.com/view/bread-slice-meal-hungry-food-gif-16325890

[tough vortex]

So I will get more tomorrow I got 8 frags of gold lattice today

[gusty plank]

I’m allergic to peanuts

[glacial leaf]

I got 4

[lethal swallow]

it grows exponentially

[glacial leaf]

I must be lucky

[shrewd mantle]

Alright, let's have this conversation once the event is over so the uncertainty and "luck" bias are gone ... this discussion is moot if your statement is based on your understanding of the devs statement ( as "they wouldn't claim this..."). I mean you have access to information we don't, so when you reinforce that narrative we have the expectation that is based on verifiable information and not a perception

[shrewd viper]

devs need to move fast ngl yall losing player. check reddit for some sample

[wheat oyster]

Whatever the outcome of this ends up being Etheria really needs to make the next thing they do a big W.

Discussion is just negative everywhere you look at the moment.

[ember horizon]

wait thats means over a week youll get like .5 of a perfect lattice from gambling then another 1 from the other shop...

[grizzled matrix]

im assuming tha 10-20k might have been if the shell drop wasnt fully replacing epic and was a chance to drop instea dof epic or something so it "averages out" to 8k now

[ember horizon]

1.5 lattice for a weekly event... the most ever

[snow frost]

I have a call tonight and I will address the exact concerns and have them communicate it if possible

[grizzled matrix]

but thats also why theyre afraid to say anything solid in talks

[snow frost]

so that people are less stressed

[grizzled matrix]

bc they gonna get held to it

[tough vortex]

C will their be a hyper talk again on 27 for rta adjustments or just normal patchnotes

[inner pebble]

dunno why the bottom bit says nightmare when the leaderboard says hell. But done

[bright locust]

Ill be honest yall should still give credit to @snow frost

Atleast bro is not bootlicker tier on the tierlist

He knows things are not well and is able to be 50/50 on issues, im sure most in his place wouldnt

[snow frost]

posting this again

just so people have context

[charred fractal]

If patchnotes this time pls a little bit earlier xD

[snow frost]

to why there's developer stress and fear too

[ember horizon]

it was exactly that. but people soundbite a statement and make it even better than what was said in their head and run with it.

[snow frost]

but theyre just underdelivering and being too soft with their risk

[gusty plank]

Lmao I’m just laughing at the CC videos on event tho tbh

[grizzled matrix]

they're not very afraid of the risk of losing players it seems

[snow frost]

but again if you overdeliver it sets terrible complaining and expectation for every event forward

[brisk marsh]

just gonna throw this out there as well - if these rewards are affecting your mental in any way that makes you feel "stressed" or "anxious" you need to put the phone down and go the fk outside

[grizzled matrix]

maybe because its global

[tough vortex]

U guys did great job when infinity train came back

[grizzled matrix]

theres a rising sentiment we're just gonna get abandon once cn launches

[lethal swallow]

you can never overdeliver

[snow frost]

yeah that's just because people are loud

[shrewd viper]

yea i fk grass wydm

[gusty plank]

Bro I’m playing while working from the pool side lol

[shrewd zinc]

true

[snow frost]

yes you can

[ember horizon]

would you rather deal with the complaints now until they get it right or FOREVER when they tune down the rewards if they overtune

[snow frost]

you have to entirely restructure the game once you do that

you set a standard that players will never let go of

I know gacha communities

I know history

[bright locust]

I mean we know their stocks haven risen up,

My worry is that they take it soft exactly because their stocks are going up and it blinds their future judgement, because if they dont keep up with the player base their stocks will go hella down and the investors will get pissed which isnt anything a dev would want

[ember horizon]

and with the way the community reacts to anything i would omega scared to go too high on adjustments

[wheat oyster]

This is understandable. Outerplane was very generous at the start and then tanked the F2P income and added predatory summoning later.

Game never recovered

[shrewd mantle]

that would be amazing! and thanks for biting all the bullets here (alone). I have to say though, if whatever discussion you have with the devs it is not communicated openly, there's no point really

[snow frost]

mhm

[charred fractal]

Ariadne go away

[shrewd viper]

oh boy can't wait for tomorrow's apology letter

[snow frost]

I disagree. I trust my research here and discussions within the company should be private when trying to figure out solutions until they are more concrete

[distant bay]

One very concerning thing is that we haven't even started hitting the F2P wall where free gems no longer support full stam refresh daily.

[grizzled matrix]

everyone jokes that smilegate regrets ever giving us ML5 selector on nerfs but thats ignoring the part where e7 would have DIED back then if they didnt go extreme with their apology

[snow frost]

there's enough data to know they could be doing better with this game lol

dont worry

[tough axle]

Wuwa as well with their launch

[gusty plank]

What? lol

[snow frost]

the data is still strong and outweighs all the noise in the discord, but it doesnt mean the noise here is wrong

[shrewd mantle]

I'm not questioning your skills, capacity, or commitment. I'm just saying if you have a conversation with the devs and none of this points are addressed (not even fixed, but as information) nothing will change

[grizzled matrix]

etheria is trying really hard to fix economy according to their vision but does nothing to address the disrespect and suffering players have to deal with to get there being the test rats

[warm folio]

He's right. Max refreshing F2Ps still have another week or so left depending on how well they've done

[grizzled matrix]

yo can we get a relaunch

[gusty plank]

I mean shit, fixing the economy isn’t easy

[tough vortex]

I think we are still in beta of the game

[gusty plank]

No chance.

[tough vortex]

This isn't real etheria

[snow frost]

yeah I can't provide any guarantees, but I CAN guarantee they care and are listening and are trying to figure out solutiions for everything. They also dont want it 3/4 months from now when we would lose a lot of player by then but also it's impossible to fix everything in a week without risking the stuff i mentioned in the picture I sent above

[shrewd viper]

Etheria ReRestart

[worthy spire]

So it seems like this accumulated damage tier rewards is as stated and will not reset daily?
If so, people who don't buy extra keys will not even be able to buy all the lattice shards from the non-rng shop. Are all the other items just there to taunt the players or something?

[snow frost]

but yeah in the previous hypertalk/livestream they discussed being ready to make adjustments if this event isnt enough

[bright locust]

Thats fair but also itll be interesting to see the data at the end of this month because for all we know the datas are good because the first month ppl didnt expect there to be this much issues

[gusty plank]

Ya curious about this

[glacial leaf]

Pretty sure that cumulative thing is weekly

[bright locust]

They need to be more risky

[gusty plank]

If that’s weekly we will struggle to buy shop rewards

[brisk marsh]

scoring more than roughly 143 isnt a big ask

[grizzled matrix]

.......so i assumed this was daily resetting rewards because its from boss i have to revise what i said about f2p being able to buy the lattice now

[tough vortex]

U take risks at beginning

[worthy spire]

the event ends in a week...

[grizzled matrix]

lemme take back my lies

[tough vortex]

Then improvise on mistakes

[snow frost]

ill ask if htis resets daily

[grizzled matrix]

im gonna delete my posts

[snow frost]

well we'll know by the time I have the call anyways with asia server but

i wish I knew

[gusty plank]

It’s huge amount if daily so doubt it

[snow frost]

yea

[glacial leaf]

Yeah so its until event ends

[snow frost]

not sure

[tough vortex]

We Asians can check in 3hrs btw

[inner pebble]

are you on day 2?

[fallen mountain]

It is a bad design tho ? U have 7 rooms out of those 1 is boss fight so 6 chances to gamble. Most rooms in purple aside roulette are pure lottery. Only one close to being okay is one with 3 options where u can chose 1/3 buffs and even then u are looking for 1 buff that is worth where most of them are worse value than yellow.

Like even the fight with the minions on yellow side wave kill (5 minions) = 200 currency each which is 1:2 value meanwhile on purple if u get minion fight its 1 minion who has less than 1:1 value. Iirc i killed 5 and got 3800. Which is abt 16% worse than yellow on top of being much tankier and harder to kill reliably as u need to debuff for more dmg on further waves where in comparison on yellow u need buffs and u can maintain them perma just by having valerian + doki/kazuyo/mia/lily etc. with xiada/massiah/yeli with and they will just kill wave after wave in 1 ult.

Yellow by far has much more stable gain and unless u get insane luck on purple yellow will on average always be better. Me and few guildmates been trying diff things and so far highest ive seen on yellow purely run was 65k with most average being around 45k. Highest purple i saw was 80k with most being sub 30k some even being 10k bcs they lost every gamble. Only situation where purple could possibly be worth is if u are at 5/7 and enter purple room in copium of getting the triple choice event and u hope to get 10-30% increase or smth similar.

[tough vortex]

Or 2 and half hour

[bright locust]

Holy pasta

[grizzled matrix]

but that was the bulk of the coins f2p cant buy SHIT in the store if that doesnt reset daily

[gusty plank]

Ya that’s huge concern

[warm folio]

he said doesn't mean it's not, aka a double negative, aka he agrees

[tough vortex]

Wait what

Holy

[shrewd mantle]

I understand, and as I've said before I'm aware none of this is your call. Although i don't want to be a negative nancy but very little actions are seen from us to support the "they care and listen" narrative, we keep hearing that but their actions consistently show the opposite ... just as a perception (which is not really hard to get from any of the platforms)

[gusty plank]

Ya doing math last hour. F2P won’t even clear 1 item in shop

[snow frost]

unfortunately you guys are not developers and don't know how much time, money, and energy comes with having to restructure an entire endgame plan/economy. It also takes away from all the development plans to improve the game in other ways and create new characters, gamemmodes, etc. that make the game last for years and years.

The risk IS important to approach carefully.

[ember horizon]

1. just make it so we recoup a little less than what we put into checking a module at +6 (anywhere from 80-90% is probably fine). We go higher than that we should lose more and more coin.
2. lattice economy is mostly fine. were at like 10-12 F2P a month. dont listen to that noise. people gotta make decisions in a strategy pvp game...
3. add rates to these boxes or just flatout remove the bad rewards and just add the expected fragments to a feather dust shop and say hey gamble the rest away on coins, training data or w/e.

[gusty plank]

Unless buy keys 🔐

[charred fractal]

Skill issue you didnt pray to gamba god

[snow frost]

people do not read I swear

[worthy spire]

no global

[glacial leaf]

Where is roadmap

[distant bay]

The general consensus rn is that economy is undertuned, and this is with all players currently having more than enough free gems to full refresh daily. When F2P runs out of gems soon, economy will feel a million times worse and we will hemorrhage players

[inner pebble]

this is true but we are gacha gamers and we know rng

[snow frost]

roadmap is easiest way to create really frustrating expectations and an angry playerbase even if it always seems like the most obvious solution 😭

bc nothing ever goes by plan or timeline

its life

[shrewd viper]

fr

[snow frost]

something will always come up

[wheat oyster]

Is the team really small? Are the same people working on characters being tasked with fixing economy now?

[tough vortex]

So c why was mid summer event only a packs buying event

[charred fractal]

How yall have no gold i understand shell currency but i have like 26m gold i cant spend cause i get no good modules xD

[warm folio]

Roadmaps only work when you've got user trust and a good relationship

[gusty plank]

Roadmaps are bad idea unless it’s already finished like AAA games

[tough vortex]

Will there ever be a summer themed event

[snow frost]

I would assume the team isn't the largest as they don't have someone dedicated to making good skins lol

[gusty plank]

This is summer theme

[grizzled matrix]

you cant buy jack

[brisk marsh]

i said the same thing yesterday and i got yelled at for not being competitive enough, i'm on nearly 30m

[snow frost]

I already flamed jack last night for summer event with no swimsuit skins

just throwing away opportunities for money

not pleasing any demographic

[gusty plank]

Let goons goon lol

[snow frost]

cant even please the gooners

the easiest one

😭

[charred fractal]

I feel ya im sitting here still waiting for a good module its painful

[wheat oyster]

Haha! What did he say?

[glacial leaf]

Bikini rosa

Easy money

[formal fog]

Because people are still at the point where they are upgrading anything and everything to +15 (probably)

[gusty plank]

I won’t buy, but I know that’s huge revenue to fund game I like. A+ to do it

[tough axle]

Wdym? There’s the different hair color rilmocha skin!

[warm folio]

I get a lot of testable mods, idk what to tell you

[brisk marsh]

i got this bad boy this morning - sorry don't mean to flex

[wheat oyster]

I want Tiamat. Then they shall receive my gooner dollars 🤣

[gusty plank]

Why did you even roll that past 6

[tough vortex]

That skin feels like she is in autumn than summer her base skin gives more summer vibes to me

[glacial leaf]

Not bad i like this idea too

[brisk marsh]

COPIUM THATS WHY

[snow frost]

"no swimsuit ? I blieve we do have one. but maybe only female MC, for male our AD don't want the male MC naked 😂"

[grizzled matrix]

do we get coins from hitting dreamweaver aside from the accumulation rewards

lemme check again

[snow frost]

but yeah im gonna tell him about not releasing more swimsuit skins being the most wasted opportunity ever

[tough axle]

Go to 15. It will go speed trust

[snow frost]

they need to hire more people for skins

[slow sundial]

they dont have to do all that just lower the cost of upgrading gear

[snow frost]

😭

[snow frost]

yeah can mention this too tonight

as a potential idea

either lowering gear upgrade cost or

increasing recycling gear

[shrewd viper]

pretty please

[tough vortex]

Please tq

That's very needed

[brisk marsh]

[tough axle]

See

[fallen mountain]

its not that i didn't read it, i just answered how bad it is. As u asked before that one if anyone went purple and got lucky. Just putting into perspective the difference of the 2

[charred fractal]

Yessss

[tough axle]

The power of kitasan

[inner pebble]

can you also ask them if they understand how probability and rng works?

[tough axle]

https://tenor.com/view/kitasan-black-kitasan-umamusume-uma-musume-pretty-derby-and-heres-the-yapper-gif-12895719817624764806

[ember horizon]

checking gear up to +6 should be a small coin loss maybe we recoup 80-90% ish or something

not w/e it is now. idk the %

[tough vortex]

Fair point

[gusty plank]

On side note and end game unions on N.A. recruiting? Mine died today lol

[fossil nexus]

If they do make adjustments it might be better to lean on being over generous for once instead of being conservative on it. Would get some goodwill back

[snow frost]

if im being completely honest, it feels like there can be a balance found between the two that people havent found the best method yet (if they want to risk for high gain if theyre already at chance of getting extremely low 10k on purple too anyways)

[tough vortex]

True

[gusty plank]

Rng rewards are fine if know baseline or odds

[snow frost]

gotta post this a million times but

[gusty plank]

I’m fine gambling if know what gambling for lol

[snow frost]

mhm

[warm folio]

I made pretty conservative choices (went for an 85% chance, went for doubled rewards, didn't go for 50/50s) and I still ate shit

[snow frost]

i think the actual event itself gambling is fun and the rng can have good strats and excitement

but the rewards

shouldnt be rng

the rewards should be static

[warm folio]

The event gambling is stressful and bad

[snow frost]

then do the safe route everty time

[kindred marsh]

i feel like i cheated on my true love...big day in the market, chose to spend on lost sword instead of etheria

[gusty plank]

If static id buy max keys and do everyone else lol

[tough vortex]

I missed some shadow prints in mini game events by like 5 coins

[warm folio]

Doing the safe route also feels bad, because they added the gambling. Every single choice in the event feels bad

[shrewd viper]

this tbh

[warm folio]

And the running around sucks

The whole thing is a wash at this point

[gusty plank]

Bro the running. This isn’t genshin

[snow frost]

but like ariadne mentioned theres a way u could go yellow for a while then on 5/7 go purple for that chance of a crazy boost and then u get wayyy more than playing full safe whole time

there can still be strats found

[warm folio]

This isn't Tales of Symphonia on the Gamecube either but for some reason I have to play it again to get to a battle

[kindred marsh]

im going to punch a brick wall if i have to run around ember treck for 42 floors a 3rd time

[gusty plank]

Facts

[fallen mountain]

and imagine u get 50:50 room that u either pay to double or lose all and u get "fail"

[inner pebble]

get ready to punch that wall

[snow frost]

honestly. VALID 😭 never thought about this

[grizzled matrix]

ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh update

[snow frost]

first person to metnion that

[charred fractal]

Idk what u mean didnt happen to me or lose a 60% chest....

[inner pebble]

just strategise better than

[kindred marsh]

i posted this as feedback 3 weeks in LOL

[warm folio]

There's a whole thread about the running in Ember Trek sucking

It's even pretty on topic

[snow frost]

i didnt see it

[fallen mountain]

ye i should get good at gambling 50:50s

[snow frost]

damn

[gusty plank]

Ember trek is 100% worst content in game lol

[warm folio]

one sec

[snow frost]

nah its cool

[gusty plank]

Rewards amazing

[snow frost]

I mean

[grizzled matrix]

so it looks like that accmulated reward doesnt reset but it goes past 500? even tho the UI stops scrolling at 500 or showing any rewards past it
but we get more stuff past 500? not sure cant see WAIT AND SEE LOL

[snow frost]

I clearly hate it too

LOL

[gusty plank]

Time? God bless

[snow frost]

doing it a third time

sounds terrible

[kindred marsh]

people told me "no one is clearing 84 floors of ember trek, this isnt a problem"

[gusty plank]

Yaaaa

[grizzled matrix]

im getting a headache from this

bye im out

[kindred marsh]

im like yeah, but you will eventually

[snow frost]

ill get more clarification

😭

[warm folio]

actually there are a bunch of them, search "trek" in feedback and 3 of the top 4 are about skipping lol

[grizzled matrix]

just do whatever if you get fucked you get fucked just take it or leave it

[snow frost]

oh okay ur leaving

[gusty plank]

Wait it goes past 500?

[snow frost]

rip

[inner pebble]

yeah we should, its a gacha. Lets strategise how to gamble better on 50/50s

[slow sundial]

i only have 2 issue the event rewards are rng and the cost to roll gear, fix those and im good

[inner pebble]

it goes past 500

[gusty plank]

Sorry replied wrong comment lol. Chat is fast on mobile

[brittle gull]

They should have done the event the same way they did the Lily card event u are guaranteed something and have a low chance to get something even better which is fine

[grizzled matrix]

no im not quitting (yet) im just dipping outta figuring this event out

[gusty spoke]

Awaken that galahad

[gusty plank]

Ok this is good

[grizzled matrix]

[snow frost]

that actually is how the event functions from what theyve claimed

[warm folio]

You should only ever take the 50/50 if it's the last one you'll ever do and it's an odd-number. I don't know why they put so many

[snow frost]

but ofc day 1

no one will know

since rng is private

[gusty plank]

75 gems seemed rough final reward.

[fallen mountain]

We need a new thread theorycrafting like inferno was early on but abt how to gamble 50:50s better

[ember horizon]

also maybe the ER team should put up a video on how to roll gear or shells... i think a lot of people dont understand this and then become broke.

or tweet out a CC's guide on how to reroll gear idk

[grizzled matrix]

why the hell are we not allowed to see that until we hit it

[inner pebble]

it seems like its just a repeated

[gusty plank]

Ehhhh rewards are bad BUT it’s more rewards

Ya

[inner pebble]

pretty sure its just repeated, every 500 you get same rewards

[worthy spire]

it’s counted as the dreamweaver challenges in the guidebook

[inner pebble]

which is kinda weird as max dmg you can do is 350

[grizzled matrix]

so if i want the most value outta my keys i need to reset for higher points

[worthy spire]

f2p won’t even get the 4 keys from there

[grizzled matrix]

o k a y

[grizzled matrix]

i once again need to revise my calculations

every time i do this f2p rewards gets cut

[inner pebble]

you wont like the outcome

[grizzled matrix]

yeah im just gonna stop thinking and let things be

whatever happens, happens

[gusty plank]

Pmuch

[inner pebble]

just gamble better

[brittle gull]

Can they give us an event like the rimocha event going on now there is no perfect lattice on it but it's still the best event to the general playerbase till date

[grizzled matrix]

ughhhhhhh before i go do my actual work

[inner pebble]

please say you didnt do the math

[grizzled matrix]

accumulation every day instead of 0-500 points per run at the boss is worse because
we care most about the constant+disorder coin currency
you can get both 8+8 with relatively average effort at only 150 points
this accumulation every day sucks because on the 2nd day you are getting the upper half of rewards which is the crap we dont care about
if it reset f2p could get the 150 points every day for the 8+8 coins
this again double dips into punishment because compared to players who earn more points, you are getting fucked twice over now

example
you earn 150 points on each boss run of 3 keys x7 = 1050 pts
with accumulation rewards you get the 500 + 500 twice
16 constant + disorder coin

with daily reset on boss reward you get to earn it all 7 days
56 constant+ disorder coins

the lattice fragments take 80 to buy all 50

you wont even consider the rest of the options
you cant buy shit anyway

this is why its extra punishment for a beginner/casual/f2p
obviously players who earn more points get more stuff but not every point value reward is equal

[brittle gull]

Are you replying to my comment?

[inner pebble]

to kek

[jolly nymph]

Why don't you do it with those who have already completed the normal difficulty, when you reset it already plays straight to the difficult one and gives the rewards soon?

[glossy cape]

https://tenor.com/view/gamler-gambler-gambling-niels-neisl-gif-6806987400242123437

Every event is

[jolly nymph]

Or I don't know, go straight to floor 36

[glossy cape]

Rng on top of rng into rng

[gusty spoke]

We play gacha game to play gacha game to gacha

[grizzled matrix]

i updated with example of why this is shit

[gusty plank]

I’m just do it and ignore what I get lol

Playing dragonheir atm

[shrewd mantle]

@snow frost before we lose you. I would really like to know your opinion, experience, or perception of the current state of the game. You can answer this question however you deem apropiate.

[glossy cape]

In every gacha “game” event, rewards are handed out you don’t pick and choose, and you certainly don’t get punished with less than others just because you got unlucky

[gusty spoke]

Bruh I'm memeing

I know it's shit

[snow frost]

pretty much on the same page as everyone else

I don't have enough personal time in my life to keep up

it's difficult. It takes a lot of time.

the time sink wouldnt be as bad if some things were more forgiving or the economy was healthier

but because of that it just adds an extra hour or two that I dont have

[inner pebble]

i mean the time sink should also not be frontloaded into the daily farming stages

[fringe bane]

i just want to give short though on this.

1. the event is time consuming just to get rng based reward, event like monopoly, or chaku rings better than this.
2. the key refresh just make this worse, because its make this event, so not f2p friendly.

[snow frost]

again I'm not 100% the target demographic as I have a really active life outside lol with hobbies and friends and stuff

but

there's plenty to criticize and understand well

the game needs more adjustment

more forgiveness

but I also stand with their fears of overdelivering, creating painful expectations that will be difficult to deal with for years, etc

I know what it's like to run a business and it's not easy

players and devs are all stressed

we all want the same goal even if it doesn't feel like it but unfortunately money and time exist

so reaching that goal can be quite painful sometimes

[kindred marsh]

lmao chris said im not the target audience like you keyboard droolers

https://tenor.com/view/wwe-macho-man-randy-savage-savage-wrestling-gif-4673361

[snow frost]

LOL

I mean not everyone has time to go out and be around friends esp as u get older

why these games exist and are fun

people get older, friends canat see eachother as much bc of raising kids, family, etc.

people move away for jobs

games help with that a lot

[sand steppe]

i thought the point of making "generous events" was so they could tune economy without the impacts overarching changes would have

[snow frost]

also there are many people who are in a stage where they can actively enjoy a game like this without making other sacrifices

[snow frost]

yeah

[kindred marsh]

hell games are the only thing that keep me sane between meetings

[snow frost]

that was the intention, and this event still should be fairly generous by the end but rn it's anxiety inducing and no one really knows bc rng isnt public

just poor way to deliver that

esp when tension has been hot

[snow frost]

lmao

if I was working at a corpo job I hated id be the same probably

thankfully my job allows me to play the game and everything

but what hurts is on the weekends

im out all weekend with friends every weekend usually

if i miss 1-2 days of an event

or miss a 2x

it's very unforgiving

and many players have complained about that feeling as well

[kindred marsh]

well, luckily there was feedback submitted by a few that could fix this, smile

[tough vortex]

Imagine on their marriage day there is a 2x

[snow frost]

yeah I think making it a consumable is the best idea

consumable that lasts for x amount of hours

[sour lance]

Why are the devs still coming out with undercooked events if they know how many players are unhappy with this

[tough vortex]

Just send it in mail

We will use what day we want

[snow frost]

tbf reward wise no one really knows if its undercooked yet bc no one knows the rng

[left trail]

I agree with momoade but lets not jump to accusations and say they are lying I think their vision of a healthy economy is not like ours player base and tbh im disappointed in the event its just not worth the hype, I've been waiting for today but at end i said what is this???

[sour lance]

It's been one month and the message so far is still. 'we are working on a solution'

[kindred marsh]

i can just see it now...chris out drinking with his buddies on the santa monica pier and gets a saturday morning text from jack "i know youre out enjoying the weekend, but the discord is getting too rowdy"

[snow frost]

unfortunately things are difficult

[glossy cairn]

I did every run clicking the gamble button , i Lost so many time everything i had 😂😂😂😂

[snow frost]

lol na if anything they want me to relax and not hate myself and be stressed all the time

[tough vortex]

Shouldn't u be talking to jack now btw whole night while drinking a coffee

[grim sparrow]

well if they take their time thinking you will have more and more players leave

[snow frost]

bc yknow its the boss's job to be stressed

[snow frost]

im cali time

[grim sparrow]

id say to make things even, give us a character reset meanwhile

https://tenor.com/view/ded-gif-20886909

[snow frost]

yeah pann no thats a bandaid that does nothing

[glacial leaf]

Its tea, fake watcher

[sour lance]

I understand not wanting to boost the players too much since the end game is pvp, but theres a limit to these typa things, its legitimately the first game ive played where u cant clear the event shops as an F2P

[kindred marsh]

might literally be the worst part of getting older and moving up the ladder lmao

[snow frost]

they just need to figure out more solutions quicker and pray the devs have enough time and energy to get it out fast enough

[sour lance]

Or maybe I just havent played enuf gachas

[grim sparrow]

when let me reset my mio fianlly

https://tenor.com/view/ded-gif-20886909

[snow frost]

yeah

alr talking about this with director tonight

it's such a common complaint and if u read above its why I struggle too

it feels unforgiving as hell

esp when u can put in a ton of hours during the week but u miss it one day on the weekend and u cant even get what u wanted in the shop

[grim sparrow]

every 2 weeks they need for finding a solution = 1 char reset

why this sounds insane

[tough vortex]

It's like I am in a dark room and the food I get is either stale bread or full meals

[glossy cairn]

The only thing that can fix our problem without broke the game economy Is cut in half the cost for the modules , that Will not broke the game we can do x2 time what we do now and i think this would be good enough

[kindred marsh]

if i wake up to "we want to make sure all hyperlinkers are able to adequately able to complete the event. here are 5 keys". i will literally shit a brick

[grizzled matrix]

regardless of the rng on the mystery boxes, the currency earning on the regular exchange shop seems abysmal

[snow frost]

yeah upgrading gear cost and recycling gains are what i plan to talk about tonight too

dw

again they may not be the healthiest solution though bc theyre VERY permanent

[tough vortex]

Will there be hyper talk every month

[marsh dirge]

I think it honestly was a shock to quite a lot of players including myself where in every other gacha they give you ample amounts of time to clear an event unless you just come into the game far to late.

Yet here...it feels like.. if you even think of taking a personal day for yourself. You are fucked out of rewards.

[snow frost]

probably every other month but we want to do calls with creators once a month or so

[grizzled matrix]

at first it seemed like you get an normalish amount of rewards from regular exchange shop and then a ton of dust for bonus goodies on mystery box, rng okay bc its "extra" stuff

[snow frost]

but maybe hyper talk once a month dunno

[grizzled matrix]

but it looks like the exchange shop is absolute dogwater

[snow frost]

depends on the development

[snow frost]

mhm, even after putting in all the work and hours before

it's not good

[grim sparrow]

you guys value " creators " voice too much lmao, they are 95% of the time fokin randoms who have no idea what they talking about

rather make community pool

or ask me in pm

[snow frost]

that's why we pick people like volkin and sean who know what theyre talking about

lol

[glossy cairn]

The idea for the end game in future would be implementing new items Better than the One we have

[grim sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/hosico-cat-cat-camera-cute-gif-17129489

[grim sparrow]

yes ask sean only, he best man for that

[snow frost]

pann

[glacial leaf]

It all went good pann until last sentence

[marsh dirge]

And yet yall also picked people like tectone xD

[kindred marsh]

sean and seii are good

[dusky lichen]

Is volkin done rerolling yet?

[snow frost]

pann just saying whatever

[grim sparrow]

whos seii

[honest portal]

People will not want to continue to currently play the game if they cannot upgrade their characters and are forced to build something like 4 people on bloodbath just to have a chance to beat Inferno Rengo. We can't skill up our units, nor can we afford to speed check gear, I've gone 3 weeks of Niconana farming without the White Fang I need for my build

[snow frost]

having a sponsorship with a creator is not having monthly development discussions with them

[dusky lichen]

Seiishizo is too biased cause sponsored

[snow frost]

we've had two livestreams with volkin and sean together

last one we called for 4 hours

but had to cut a lot ofc bc it was more just discussing solutions and ideas

and cant just release all of that bc it creates expectations

[ornate lark]

Why’d you bring Jena though, he barely plays the game

[grim sparrow]

sean b only guy thats not biased 😡

[lethal swallow]

yes please no Jenazad, he doesnt play the game

[dusky lichen]

"barely" he has not streamed it for a week

[sour lance]

Call barcode xd

[lethal swallow]

he doesnt stream/play it as long as he is not paid

[ornate lark]

Jena only plays gooner games

[grim sparrow]

why that name tells me smth, whos that again ?

[lethal swallow]

yo ucan check the stream history

[marsh dirge]

That's fair, but also.. a sponsorship gives a creator a paid instance of a platform to express their opinions on the game and we have already see a couple, and by couple i mean 2 or 3 people dogwalk all over the game.

[glacial leaf]

Biased coz guildie

[dusky lichen]

Revasthu had a crashout today on stream he started looking at new games xD

[snow frost]

at the time he was playing it a lot more

[sour lance]

King of F2P

[dusky lichen]

Car_6 should be on that next hypertalk

[snow frost]

is there anything wrong with this

idk what ur complaining about

this thread makes my brain mush bro

[grim sparrow]

when accept its best for all

https://tenor.com/view/komaru-cat-cute-fluffy-shake-gif-23360236

[snow frost]

bro is mad creators who are paid sponsors are allowed to critique the game?

😭

[marsh dirge]

What I'm trying to express to you is some CCs aren't genuine

[glacial leaf]

Where is madness on leaderboards could you enlighten me again

[snow frost]

yeah im done in this thread for now

[grim sparrow]

which leaderboards?

[snow frost]

I got enough I needed for the call tonight

lolol

[ornate lark]

Where are you on the rta leaderboard can you enlighten me again

[ember horizon]

bye

[snow frost]

byee

[grim sparrow]

Check RTA , you will see us all over top 20

[lethal swallow]

@snow frost
if possible, can you let us vote on who joins the hyper talks or represents the community in the future?

[glossy cairn]

Have a greatefull timeee

[grim sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/komaru-cat-cute-fluffy-shake-gif-23360236

[glacial leaf]

Getting there

[grim sparrow]

getting there

[snow frost]

it will likely continue to be sean and volkin if they are around

[ornate lark]

Still in plat then

[marsh dirge]

Wiggle

[snow frost]

idk anyone who doesnt trust those two

to be fair

[gusty plank]

Rta leaderboard? lol. That matters?

[grim sparrow]

on g i only know 1 guy of them in rta and thats this kekker guy who lost against cake

[dusky lichen]

I vote Car_6 as the 3rd

good voice of reason

[gusty plank]

Sean and volkin been around forever

[glacial leaf]

Top 200 is fine atm

[lethal swallow]

okay so jenazad is gone, good