Anti-nerf thread

[nova dove]

Recently there are tons of whining, wanted to express one more opinion

First of all the game is fantastic - fresh breath and long-waited PvP focused game

Secondly - a lot of player base is very content with difficulty of the game and it's strange to ask to beat ALL end-game content in one month

Honestly its quite fun to tune your teams and "crack" the difficulty, with million guides on youtube
Hope there will be something even more difficult in future

Any way thanks a lot to devs, wanted to appreciate and support what you are doing

Have no feeling that you have to rush with more nerfes

[shy sparrow]

So true. It’s a marathon. Not a sprint.

[carmine drum]

If they just adjust the rates of materials you get in every mode, i think everyone can really tune everything and not getting stuck by not having this meta.

[autumn sedge]

the only people who say this are the people who haven't attempted the inferno stages because it's so obviously overtuned and when you get there you'll agree with everyone who wants inferno nerfs

[brazen gust]

Do you think companies make changes like this based solely on people talking on discord or YouTubers making videos? They did this because their bottom line told them they have to. And they'll probably continue to nerf pretty much everything except Nico even more

[bleak orbit]

I mean I have every inferno stage done at 3 star and the only one where I was like fk this is horseshit, was rengutsu (yes I have it 3 stared and it’s auto but hyper inconsistent) and aurora where sometimes I just lose ?? And I have no idea why

Everything else in this game is simply put x unit in and the puzzle is solved.

For example Viper is the key to 90% of ember track and Ethernet rally.

Chachi is the key to 90% of the shell dungeons

Hell Vice is the counter to all bosses 😂

But… in saying that even tho I love the current difficulty I’m not against module dungeon nerfs just don’t nerf the end game stuff

[lean swallow]

Doubt this guy touched inferno once

[shy sparrow]

Still struggling to clear that stage? Check out this guide now, Hyperlinkers!

[lean swallow]

I am struggling to pull fangus

[shy sparrow]

Just use ssania

[lean swallow]

It’s incredible

[manic wadi]

OP I know your message comes from a good place. But the truth is the only voice Jackz cares about is the player's angry screams as they uninstall the game. And I'm telling you that this is true for many things in the world. This is how the cookie crumbles. This is nothing personal, so why should you make it personal? This is business at it's core and one of the worst ones which is gacha. We can build a great community out of it but do not make the mistake like make this relationship with the devs personal. Doing so will reduce you into what people call "white knights" and "doom posters" who waste time making posts about "shilling" or "doom posting" and fighting each other just for the sake of it. Since when did our personal fun become dependent on others?. Play the game, have your fun, if it's not fun for you anymore then it's time to move on.

[spring hedge]

The FARMING bosses are not the "end game"

[cloud steeple]

It's not endgame..

Inferno is mid game content

[nova dove]

Already closed all inferno content week ago )
Except Aurora, still building team

[nova dove]

first month it is endgame resource gaining content mate)

We have ember and event stuff in addition to this, but its not about gaining more powerful shells/modules

so its hard to understand why everyone should finish all the bosses in less than a month

I dont know any other gacha game, where you could access all power features in a month and find BiS items

[trim owl]

The point of the game is PVP, supposedly, not PVE boss ladder progression. In the beta, streamers and players were able to gear up in relatively easier Inferno modes to enjoy “the point of the game”. Then ER launched, jacked up all inferno HP/ DEF/ ATT/ SPEED/ changed a bunch of character mechanics at the 11th hour even, and you wonder why people are annoyed? It’s a direct result of the developers intentionally sabotaging their game.

Top-tier trolling or clowning, I don’t know which. 10/10

[hoary raptor]

In every single pvp hero collector it takes a long time to even be able to clear the last stage of artifacts. The whole point of the easier PVE in the beta was so that people could test out the game without the timegate. The game was always meant to have "difficult" PVE.

[thorn lotus]

People playing e7 clearing w13 in under a week

[hoary raptor]

yeah after they make the game a lot easier through hella qol so that new players can "catch up"

think about how long it took for them to farm highest tier on launch

its always like this

also theres hella teams that you can use to clear inferno without ssania or lily

[thorn lotus]

See how that’s a problem?

[thorn lotus]

Ok mb I didn’t know that Etheria had the luxury of time and a small market

People who don’t care that much about Etheria will quit to just play e7 or sw because of the drastic difference

We are complaining because we care and want to continue playing the game

[hoary raptor]

? thats not a problem you can clear inferno without ssania or lily so hows it a problem

[thorn lotus]

With limited comps that not everyone has

And those comps take months more than lily and ssania comps

[hoary raptor]

if you have valerin gachi red kazuyo valerin dting chiaki/viper you should be able to clear most inferno

and you have selector so you can clear doki/aurora if you pick rosa/xiada

the only one will be a struggle is hoyan/rengoku until you farm enough gear

ive cleared all of inferno with these units and tiamat besides hoyan and rengoku

i had to use fangus/obol comp for hoyan

[hoary raptor]

but this most people should have

[simple zephyr]

Do inferno sharon without lily and say this again.

[lean swallow]

Look at teams everyone uses ssania and Lilly you think that’s doable without the nerfs and the high cost and lack of resources and you wonder why people complain

[hoary raptor]

i have done inferno sharon without lily you can do gachi kazuyo healer dps

the only requirement for inferno sharon is having gachi being fast enough with s3 maxed and 181 accuracy

[hoary raptor]

i dont have ssania and am able to clear all infernos and lily is replacable in all content :/

[lean swallow]

What’s in your box

[hoary raptor]

all units but ssania yeli beyontin rat tsuki

but again there are so many replacements

with sr units

if youre missing gachi tho good luck

[lean swallow]

I can’t clear anything with how dog the drops are over a wwwk grinding Nico nana and can’t get a single shell I want

[hoary raptor]

you need hhelp for nico team?

what units do you have

[shy sparrow]

He’s farming Nico. He’s saying he’s not getting anything from it

[hoary raptor]

oh

what do you need help clearing

send me box and i can make a team for you

[lean swallow]

It be nice if I could build my diting better but the shell drop is ass

And limited stamina kinda sucks

Im farming rengoku for codex

[hoary raptor]

yeah ive been max refreshing stamina for 2 weeks to be able to clear all inferno content but rengoku

i havent tried rengoku yet but with mia/gachi/val team all on timeweave it seems really easy

[lean swallow]

I gave up refreshing

Spent 10k. Gems to try to get fangus and got like 5 ssr

[hoary raptor]

the only content you really need fangus for is to make hoyan consistent imo

[shy sparrow]

And terror prenurf

[lean swallow]

I saw a comp I wanna try kazu kloss diting Lilly so kloss ult kaz ult Lilly diting do there thing and kloss and kaz ult again

[hoary raptor]

well ye i more meant atm

i think everything is very clearable rn with the current nerfs

[hoary raptor]

for what for hoyan?

[lean swallow]

Yeah

Stun the adds and go for boss

[shy sparrow]

Yep. Able to farm inferno hoyan now with yeli on hell4 gear

[hoary raptor]

obol instead of kaz also works for this but its less consistent cuz no atk down on hoyan btw

if youre able to fit in hp piece should be better tho

[lean swallow]

I seen someone use kraken

[hoary raptor]

kraken works too

any cc unit works

[lean swallow]

I have kazu max so I rather use her less units to build the better

[cloud steeple]

Endgame resources/=endgame content. The endgame content is something you take on AFTER you have a fully geared roster; like ethernet rally.

If everyone does full clear inferno in 2 or 3 weeks.. they move onto bigger things. The game doesn't just end. Ember trek, anisync, ethernet rally, and, despite not always being available, cage rumble also counts.

That's a lot of PvE endgame; especially considering that this is a pvp-focused game. Inferno is getting nerfed because people cannot enjoy the game's pvp to the fullest due to being unable to properly farm gear. Current inferno is in the way of most people enjoying the game; not something that's entertaining or fun. If the GEAR DUNGEONS of all things are in the way of people enjoying PvP and the actual PvE endgame, why should the bosses be untouched?

[lament yoke]

People who think farming stages are end game content and should be untouchable for weeks or months are so confused on what a PVP game is supposed to be

It's such a weird take

[nova dove]

They werent untouchable, they were cleared after 2 weeks, but its strange to away that in few days all content is possible for 100% of players

Never seen such a game

And the whole disc/youtube is full of nerf this/nerf that stuff, it supposed to be challenging, but it sounds like an enormous impossible content lol

Its not right to get all BIS options in few days either lol, once again - no such a game exist

[terse mirage]

It's interesting, as a non-day 1 player, for me the thing that interested me the most WAS the challenging nature of later difficulties. If it was like HSR where the content is just trivial for most player levels early on, I wouldn't have joined.

It is shocking to me to see the number of 🤡 reactions on official news here and the general player sentiment. Compared to the gacha I came from at least, ER is AMAZING and refreshing, these complaints to me are like people trying to turn it into another AFK farming sim which is interesting (read as concerning).

[lapis vine]

Repeat with me:

Farming stages are not content

there are plenty of challenging PVE content for you to do, and if that's not the case it is an incredibly lazy approach to rely in farming stages. I don't mind the grind, the small incremental improvements, the "i'll go back to this challenging later" stages... but there no resources, the FARMING stages are gatekeeped behind 2 SSR units or super cracked gear (which compounded to the severe resource scarcity it just poor player progression design)

beating inferno is just the start! I don't understand why there is this feeling that once you clear inferno stages you beated the game

and then theres nothing else to do ...

[terse mirage]

Yep, IMO it's better solved by increasing drop rates, doing things like removing yellow drops from inferno shells, etc could alleviate it entirely IMO. I don't watch ER content creators, but read that they were big on nerf this, nerf that. That's interesting to me as I don't think that take is in line with game health tbh.

[lapis vine]

sure, but they double down with SEVERE resource scarcity (so I can't really experiment diffirent teams or builds because every single level, every single upgrade takes a ridicolous amount of stamina). Additionally, the drops are ass and I guess you can think whatever you want but 2 matrxi drops in hell4/inferno are just trash, you can't use those (since the goal eventually is 12/8/6, but you start with 12/8 which objectively require 3 matrix gear. Shells is just a different monster, 10k exp drop per run and over 1mill to max 1 shell not considering the exp sink that is rerolling stats.

you either have challenging stages where i can grab every single piece i get, stat check it, and slowly incrementally improve my gear to beat the stage or you tune it down so the requirements are lower and i can just start farming for the right ("perfect") pieces

you can't do both

TLDR: you improve drops and reduce cost if you want this difficulty OR just reduce the gear requirements to beat the stage

[molten bear]

hard and annoying are two different things a boss shouldnt have to be annoying to make it hard

[lapis vine]

also true ...

i mean they designed bosses that get buffs, immunity, bar push every single turn with no CD

lol

[molten bear]

this true the game is build on a system to use multiple different units but you dont have enough recourses to use said different recourses

[terse mirage]

I think increasing drops and resource availability is a much better solution than making things way easier. The nerf makes it easier for players without certain SSR's, but makes it trivial for those with them on some stuff.

I think it's better to make resources more abundant and costs maybe lower on some things so that you can build a wider roster more easily to use things like Viper comps or Obol Fangus stuff.

[lapis vine]

you get consistently 4 purple lattice a week (2 from union, 1 from arena, 1 from weekly) plus the occasional (if RNGesus bless you) from the shit desgined events ...

[shy sparrow]

Nah. If they did that before the nurfs then it would have EoS. A lot of the complaint was that they increased the hp pool to levels where you needed a highly specific unit or gear from inferno to clear.

[lapis vine]

and the alternative is "just build these 6 SR units and you can clear whatever stage"

you can do the math

[terse mirage]

I'm specifically talking about the ones yesterday, I built units to farm stuff early that I no longer need because the content is now fake.

[shy sparrow]

It’s not fake though

[lapis vine]

that's an interesting experience, can you be very specific and describe what happened? which units did you built, with what purpose, and why are redudant now with the new nerfs?

[shy sparrow]

You still need hell4 gear to clear

[molten bear]

or you get lucky on a free pull and get a ssr that look cool but wait cant use them i dont have anything to upgrade them

[shy sparrow]

You guys make it seem like you can walk up with nightmare gear and clear

Like the only reason people were fine farming hell4 during double drop was because it gave similar drops

For a faster and reliable clear

[terse mirage]

Yes, I started later than Day 1, ended up building dark sania dot team to clear inferno niconana early for example to start farming shells. Now its irrelevant post nerf (not saying not useful, but is mats I would prefer to have back and decide on later) because I can just straight up Diting kill it.

(about 14 days in or less, so lattices are VERY crucial to me because less weekly shops)

[lapis vine]

so you are being victim of building SS and farm way below the gear requirements for weeks because now someone with a WELL gear diting can do the same? and that is not fair for you?

[shy sparrow]

Brother. Ssania has the lowest gear requirement to clear still.

[terse mirage]

That's fair, it was an over exaggeration. Also I remember you from AFK:J! What's up ❤️

[molten bear]

lol that the game fault you shouldnt need a certain character to cheese the boss

[shy sparrow]

Doing well. Afk journey has been very very boring for me

My guild is on life support

And still top 4

[terse mirage]

I'm not saying it's unfair, I agree that it's better that something was done then nothing. I'm just saying I disagree with the "what" that was chosen.

[terse mirage]

Yeah, I "retired" for etheria. Got sick of the global 1 race with phases making it a 24/7 job.

[lapis vine]

okay, why do you disagree tho? that is what i don't understand

[terse mirage]

it removes a lot of the appeal of the game for me and several people I play with. the main thing we enjoyed was the difficulty + needing to figure things out. A bunch of stuff getting nerfed so you can just Diting it removes a lot of that appeal.

I definitely see your point though of solving with different SSR's is very non f2p friendly and bad design and I agree too.

[molten bear]

but annoying is not hard it just makes you want to get off

[lament quiver]

Please delete this.

[languid tartan]

I was told this was a pvp focused game. not pve.

[shy sparrow]

You’re wrong on both. Because it’s a marathon

[terse mirage]

maybe i'm just a masochist 💀

[languid tartan]

Farming simulator.

[lament quiver]

it's strange to ask to beat ALL end-game content in one month
Cage Rumble requires 15 characters. So yes, the devs expect us to beat all of it.

[lapis vine]

you were basically playing a different game than everyone else, you never felt (or maybe a little bit) how is to face inferno with hell4 2 matrix gear and no SS.

Anisync echoes, ember trek, ethernet rally, cage rumble, train, just to name a few ... are not challenging, interesting, "need to figure out" enough for you? Since when farming stages are "CONTENT"?

[shy sparrow]

The milestones also expected you to beat it at level 50

[molten bear]

where your pfp from

[terse mirage]

yes, i agree this IS bad design fully

[lament quiver]

Chainsaw man. Great manga, try it out

[shy sparrow]

Rengokujitsu is gatekeeping me from that golden tofu

[languid tartan]

F2p friendly my ass 😂

[terse mirage]

That's a fair point, I come from a game where the main challenge IS the farming stages (AFK:J deficit pushing) so my viewpoints are possibly more niche

[languid tartan]

Game is a marathon huh? For who exactly?

[shy sparrow]

For ssania

[languid tartan]

F2p.

Whales are 5-6 months ahead.

[shy sparrow]

Everyone else is sprinting to try to catch up

[molten bear]

yall got chucky crashing out

[languid tartan]

All events unclearable if your not a whale.

Gap gets bigger everyday.

[torn violet]

you think this game f2p friendly??

[languid tartan]

I was told it was. I was lied to...

[lapis vine]

I understand what you mean, and i also played AFKJ for a bit... but here there no infinite stages that you beat and keep going. There are 10 (?) different difficulties and thats it, as i said beating inferno is the START not the END. Once you confortably start farming inferno now the grind begings: 3 matrix, right set, right subs, right main, 3/4 subs are enough RNG layers to maintain this games longevity (which is another common argument against REASONABLE difficulty for farming stages)

[shy sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/disappointed-disappointments-day-is-ruined-gif-15834250

[languid tartan]

These CCs are all paid actors

[lapis vine]

that not even including that you could (and will consistently and repeatedly) brick gear when rolling for it (which is another thing we can't do in this game because game economy once again fucking sucks ass)

[languid tartan]

2x event for whales farming inferno sub 30 sec runs did immeasurable amount of damage. One day yall will see.

[shy sparrow]

who tf was farming at 30 seconds

[lapis vine]

I'd say gatekeeping and shadowbuffing farming stages was the thing that made immeasurable amounts of damage

of anything x2 event should be a monthly thing, or each weeked one farming stage

[languid tartan]

If you checked recent clears you would have seen.

[shy sparrow]

recent. Im talking about during 2x like you said

[torn violet]

this game just like black clover mobile , hype early and ppl leave after 2-3 month..

[molten bear]

dont remind me

[languid tartan]

Recent clears as in when 2x event happened

[shy sparrow]

you do realize those were never conistent during 2x right?

[languid tartan]

Even worst now

[shy sparrow]

even then it was only terror

[languid tartan]

Doesnt matter my buddy would manual run because it was soo fast.

[shy sparrow]

terror doesnt drop any good pvp sets

its one of the worst to farm

pretty sure aurora had like 3 clears total at that time

[lament yoke]

Something being cleared after 2 weeks by 0.001% of the playerbase doesn't mean it's cleared. Come on. These are farming stages. Finishing these means everyone can start to focus on the PVP portion of this game, and delaying access to farming these stages ruins the PVP experience for everyone

A lot of people love PVE. Great. This isn't supposed to be a PVE game

[shy sparrow]

It was larger than 0.001% but you needed 2 hyper specific ld units

then you had showcases of other units but they all had gear you couldnt get without those 2 units

[lament yoke]

You sure it was larger? 0.001 is 1 in 1000? In either case, this is splitting hairs. Farming content is not end game content

[shy sparrow]

0.002

[lean swallow]

Who doesn’t love getting epic shells in inferno the expirence is incredible

[sharp summit]

ahh yes, the lovely revelation on kaz, celince, freya, hellkid, rc77, yeli, massiah, rosa pvp

the pvp in this game is more dogshit than pve lol

[lean swallow]

You can cheese pvp

Pve not so much

[lament yoke]

That's a totally separate problem. You know pointing out a totally unrelated problem elsewhere doesn't mean no other problems exist, right?

[lean swallow]

We all know the issues

[manic wadi]

Hey mr yapper glad to see you here. I've been playing this game since the last open beta in early May and observed the whole 🤡 situation. It all boils down to the playerbase's unmet expectations for the game due to the lack of communication (sometimes self-inflicted but in most times warranted in my opinion)

1. Too much room for rumors. There were statements being thrown by CCs and messages by mods on Discord about dupes not working on real-time arena which turned out false. Devs only corrected this after the last open beta. Another is a rumored 2x event on release. A 2x event happened towards the end of the open beta. Even though the official list of events on release has been posted on Discord, the players still expected a 2x event to happen on release. This led to players hoarding their stabilizers and becoming angrier every day the 2x event did not happen until the devs finally held it a little past 2 weeks after release.

2. Bunch of balance patches seemed to invalidate certain play styles. Towards the end of the first week after release, the devs rolled out balance patches that invalidated some builds from clearing certain content in the game. Namely DOTs should not have worked in Aurora (which DOTs didnt used to work before the last beta, somehow devs missed this bug on last beta and release) and Xiada and Veronika should not be able to steal the atk buff from the middle monster in DokiDoki. Both SSania and Xiada are still T0 picks today in many dungeons but at that time, the playerbase did not have the whole context yet. The devs gave an additional 3-day reset event and has promised not to roll out balance patches unless they are game breaking bugs. Those previous two bugs mentioned seemed game-breaking to me, so idk what they are talking about.

3. This one is something I haven't seen on Discord. That the devs had always intended for the game to have a hard PVE. I've only heard from a CC who's been testing this game for several years. The problem is they had not or at least done enough to convey this to the players. If this is true then I think their actions do not match their vision. The open beta allowed us to clear up to Inferno within 10 days. But just before release, the devs cranked up the numbers on bosses on inferno which surprised players when they reached there. To begin with, difficult PVE is not the first thing in the minds of most reasonable players in a PVP-focused advertised game. Some will argue that this is normal given that this is how similar games such as SW and E7 is like. But that doesn't change the fact that there are players out there who do not believe that feel rug-pulled or betrayed. And now we have seen two patches rolling back those cranked up numbers and more to come in the near future.
4. On communication: The devs dropped the ball on communication during the most important part time of the game which is the honeymoon period. Everyone is in a rush doing 10x refreshes everyday to 1-up everyone else. Now here comes the devs with their balance patches. It didn't matter that there were game-breaking bugs in the game that needed fixing. It mattered that the player felt like the devs were taking away the player's toys. They just feel betrayed.

I hope this provides context why the player base is so hateful right now. The devs have negative goodwill. One thing I learned is that XD games office is just a floor below Lilith games. Interesting isn't it

[manic wadi]

One last thing and this is more recent. There's a belief that players need fully built teams to do RTA. Now that more players have started farming inferno, another glaring problem becomes apparent that the current economy in shells and modules means it will probably take weeks to months to fully gear their arena teams. Not to mention the lattices. Another mismatch in player expectations and the dev's vision. I wish devs would just talk about this proactively rather than depend on player criticisms and complaints

[terse mirage]

Hi hyperSLinker (I remember you from the spoilers/speculation threads in OG Yap haha).

Thanks for the additional context, I see a lot here now. The floor just below Lilith is a funny coincidence!

Honestly I thought dup's didn't work in RTA too from what I had heard from some CC's, so I spewed that too. I see now, some of these I didn't experience since I started about 2 weeks in and some are from big design/balance changes between beta -> live that weren't communicated well and such.

❤️

Also thank you for taking obviously a huge amount of time to summarize all of this, incredibly helpful and I'm going to share it a bit in the Yap:ER community so that the newer folks have an idea of the history and why the sentiment.

[manic wadi]

Anytime my friend, keep it real

[hoary raptor]

the content is not challenging nor is it gatekept by lily/ssania/good gear

[hoary raptor]

these 6 sr units lets you clear all stages and are good in pvp lol

[hoary raptor]

you SHOULDNT be able to clear with nightmare gear its been like that in every single turn based hero collector

there has always been progression in gear from 5 to 6 star

[hoary raptor]

she still makes hoyan teams a lot more stable tho

[hoary raptor]

inferno was fine with 2 line shells and no ss tho what

im literally still doing inferno with 80%+ clear rate in all stages but rengoki and 2 line shells and i have no ssania

[hoary raptor]

no beating hell 4 is the start inferno is supposed to be difficult you can clear all stages with hell 4 gear

[shy sparrow]

You can’t clear with nightmare gear. I already said that

[hoary raptor]

yeah ik

[shy sparrow]

Nah that’s not true

Maybe for dokidoki

The rest

Nah

[hoary raptor]

ive cleared all inferno content with high clear rate and no ssania tho 😐

[lapis vine]

so the gear requirements for SS+lily team vs ... literally anything else, you are saying that it is equivalent in terms of investment and stat requirements?

to clear inferno that is

[hoary raptor]

ofc the gear requirement is lower for ssania

gear requirement is around the same for lily

but the gear requirement is already super low as is for inferno

[lapis vine]

you can clear how many inferno boses with basically the same 4 units?

[shy sparrow]

The fact the devs are nurfing them now proves the point that a large majority were not

[lapis vine]

how many different units you'll need to clear the same inferno stages?

[hoary raptor]

like i have 1-2 lines of upgrades per char to clear inferno hoyan at 80% clear rate (hoyan was never nerfed)

[lapis vine]

whos your dps?

[shy sparrow]

It’s dot

[lapis vine]

oh yeah

[hoary raptor]

you can clear all inferno shells with the same 3 core units

last one situational

[lapis vine]

who do you use for hoyan?

are you also farming inferno treshold?

(i'm learning here)

[hoary raptor]

yes

do you want teams

i can help you

[hoary raptor]

kazyuo (red) last slot

kazuyo has decent gear tho

5 +9 spd pieces

you can also dting it

red kazuyo can replace lily in all content except for rengoku and doki

[lapis vine]

you need a crack diting

[hoary raptor]

whats cracked to you

this?

i have 2 good gears on him lmao

[lapis vine]

any inferno tresholds?

[hoary raptor]

i farm all with 99% clear rate

[lapis vine]

i see ... what teams do you use?

[hoary raptor]

teams are
mia gachi valerin holden dting/khloros/messiah
kazuyo the reverie kloss freya valerin messiah
tiamat mia lingluo kazuyo (red) valerin

i dont use messiah/dting in aurora since they get 1 shot in aurora

but all of these units i use in pvp except for kloss and mia

[lapis vine]

and all of those have 2 line shells?

[hoary raptor]

yes

you dont need 3 line to clear or have high wr

you just need to know who to invest in and their min stats to clear well and speedtune them

[lapis vine]

wow ... okay youre great then

[hoary raptor]

i haven’t touched any of my gear since like week 2 of the game too

[terse mirage]

this, and you have dark sania and half of it become clearable with unoptimized anything and just eff acc + speed tuning

if you are willing to manual stuff, it is even easier if you are running Lily and stuff that auto is inefficient on

[hoary raptor]

besides obol and fangus

[hoary raptor]

i dont have dark sania

[lapis vine]

can i see you card?

[terse mirage]

oh yeah, no i assumed as much, I was just pointing out that you are talking about everything being clearable with alternatives too. so was just pointing out with dark sania stuff is even less requirements

[hoary raptor]

i will admit lily/ssania makes everything a lot easier (specifically hoyan terror nico) but you dont need them to progress at all

[hoary raptor]

yeh

i am not the perfect example tho since i just got lily recently and started using her in clears

[shy sparrow]

Yeah that’s pretty cracked

[hoary raptor]

also am a big whale

[shy sparrow]

Considering this is mine

With 4 liners

[hoary raptor]

lol

7 copies of messiah 4 copies of doki 3 copies of mio hein yet no ssania

[hoary raptor]

these gear arent good tho besides like 2 pieces

[terse mirage]

For comparison, this is mine at a much later start without the furyedge satisfied (haven't gotten a good drop for it yet)

And mine can do the same fwiw

[hoary raptor]

i will admit now i use lily everywhere but kazuyo easily substitutes her in all but dokidoki

[manic wadi]

I play an account that has lily and one without. The latter takes a bit more knowledge make work

[hoary raptor]

you can just use kazuyo tho

[manic wadi]

Yeah I do

[hoary raptor]

its almost the same thing gear req is just a little higher

[shy sparrow]

I wouldn’t say a little ngl

[manic wadi]

My lily-less account reached inferno about a few days after the one with

[shy sparrow]

Ssania teams were clearing while missing gear

[hoary raptor]

i didnt say ssania i said lily bro 😭

ssania is too broken for certain inferno

[shy sparrow]

Even Lily

[hoary raptor]

lily just makes dps gear req higher

[shy sparrow]

And the rest of your team to survive longer

[hoary raptor]

but if the boss doesnt have scaling mech (aurora) you can clear with same gear

as long as they dont have infinite atk like terror lily doesnt make your gear req that much less

[manic wadi]

If one with lily and one without is just days apart, then is that such a big difference considering how abysmal the drop rates in modules and shells are?

[hoary raptor]

people just dont want to invest in “dead”/nonmeta units

gachi is goated for pvp tho

[manic wadi]

Yea i use him in pve and pvp

[shy sparrow]

Not in this revelation meta

[hoary raptor]

just outspeed them

:3

im slow asf tho 284

[manic wadi]

That's one other thing that the devs haven't adressed yet

[shy sparrow]

You can’t though

[hoary raptor]

they need to get rid of rev pvp

[shy sparrow]

They are running swift raid and swift rush

[hoary raptor]

messiah cleave is alr good enough since he ignores passives and defense

rev is so unhealthy for the game

[shy sparrow]

To be fair bloodbath is the same

[shy sparrow]

Not really days. More like weeks. But considering how mid she is in PvP, she better be good in pve

[manic wadi]

Yea maybe around 2 weeks more or less. But that's one month's worth of perfect lattices if you max her S1. Other accounts can use those lattices directly into their pvp units to clear pve content in exchange for losing 2 weeks more or less of inferno. And considering the inferno drop rates.. you know

[hoary raptor]

lily is anything but mid in pvp

[shy sparrow]

Nah she is

[hoary raptor]

she can turn 1 cd everyone or can push ccers with slower spd to go first

or push 200 spd messiah to first turn

[shy sparrow]

If you look at the top players they aren’t playing Lily

[shy sparrow]

With Lily you need your dps at 240 to even take a turn

[hoary raptor]

for rta lily is permabanned

[shy sparrow]

No they are running yang, doki and tsuki

Who can all push your whole team around 30%

Since bloodbath you need multiple revelations to kill

[hoary raptor]

only like 5 people are running them in top 30

[shy sparrow]

You can ask them you know

They already had a debate about it

[hoary raptor]

where

cuz ik like 1/2 of them

[shy sparrow]

Heal free is one

Nomoreldplease is another

[fathom drum]

So true. It’s a marathon. Not a sprint. Show us your lily+ssania team and try to play without them

[hoary raptor]

ive literally cleared all content but rengoku without either

[shy sparrow]

Funny enough this is why people just ban messiah instead of lily

Since you can draft hoyan or try to out tank them with tiemat

[hoary raptor]

man.

i played rta 2 weeks ago after hitting diamond everyone yoinked my tia every other game

unplayable

tia yoinked or lily taken/banned

[shy sparrow]

Yep tiemat lingluo with bloodbath

[hoary raptor]

or tia banned

the only reason why im playing this game is bc of tia

[manic wadi]

Which shell do you use for tia?

[hoary raptor]

alicorn bramble wellspring swiftsmite

[shy sparrow]

Most use amber

Or I think lighthouse

[hoary raptor]

but yeah you want bloodbath shell

[jaunty parrot]

People without Lily/ SSania should all be able to clear Inferno stages too, and difficulty should not be based on those units. Its grind stages to prepare you for end game contents, not the actual end game. And don’t tell me its only been a month, its because we are refreshing max stamina daily for like 960 crystals! Tell me a game that makes you max stamina daily refresh as part of the game progression. We are basically 1 month in+ x10 stamina in progression length

[hoary raptor]

you can clear all inferno stages without them tho

[fathom drum]

Yes, read what i said. Lily+dps, or all comp geared(this requires way much time and money) to equalized the content you're grinding

[hoary raptor]

the difficulty isnt based around those units the difficulty is lowered by ssania

[hoary raptor]

no

lily doesnt decrease gear reqs by that much

only ssania does

[fathom drum]

Ssania does on shells, lily on every content

[hoary raptor]

you can run kazuyo instead of lily

no she doesnt and you know youre coping

[shy sparrow]

No she does. You pretty much only need speed. And considering she is already 127.

[fathom drum]

Brother i always defend kazuyo because is more funny, but isnt the same 4min run than 2 min run

[hoary raptor]

speed doesnt matter since youre capped on stamina/day anyways

[fathom drum]

And saying 4m run im so generous

[hoary raptor]

the fact of being able to clear is the only thing that matters

[fathom drum]

The fact that you need every 20 min check the phone because you only can do 5 clear on 1 star is the shit happens without lily or kloss on teams

But kloss atleast isnt as broken

Only -atm- the character who does that function

[hoary raptor]

kloss also isnt a ld

[hoary raptor]

clear speed is literally irrelevant

[fathom drum]

Tell that to devs, then haha

[hoary raptor]

you can have 8 min clears per stage and still spend all stamina per day

[fathom drum]

1 star or 3 star should be able to clear x10 or atleast 15 rounds instead only 5

But we get 180 stamina and only can clear as max 10 lul

[manic wadi]

You can do that sure if you can afford the constant distraction all throughout your day

[lament yoke]

Yea just make this game your entire life and personality like the rest of us. Why are you expecting some reasonable experience?? /s

[dark trellis]

Farming gear isnt "end game content" 🤣

[short nova]

ive been trying to do aurora inferno for the past week and the best ive gotten it is 10-20% wr without lily, someone enlighten me how to do it so i can farm it. (dont have tsuki or mia either)

[dim hollow]

Rip tsuki is the next best

I know someone without Lily doing aurora with her at a consistent wr

Do you have massiah

[short nova]

no

[dim hollow]

Gg uninstall

[short nova]

this is what im using but only 10-20% wr its bricked

[dim hollow]

I clear everything 30 sec to a min with almost 100% wr even rengo and I feel bad for some people

I’m sure they will eventually nerf aurora and rengo

I mostly want the nerfs so I can do everything in 20 secs

Game takes to much time

[dim hollow]

Do you have doki?

[short nova]

i do but no lattice on her

[dim hollow]

Rip

The s3 leveled is op

But might as well wait for nerfs if you don’t plan on using her

[short nova]

i have 10 lattice right now just waiting to see what the new char is going to be next before i send them

but what team would u even do with doki

[dim hollow]

Smart

I would have her go last

To pull everyone up

After they go

But I’m not sure who to swap

Also doesn’t one of the Dorthy’s pull up a unit and give cdmg

Can try her

But first test if her ai pulls up Rosa

[short nova]

problem i ran into is that without red kazuya i die very quick cause no cd or speed buff

[dim hollow]

Can you show me your ling gear and shell?

Also can you farm Sharon inferno?

[short nova]

i cant even look at that boss

i tried a bunch of shit for sharon but even bloodbath lingluo wasnt good enough

[dim hollow]

[dim hollow]

That’s not bad but the 3 set is so op for her Like mine solo heals the debuff

Hmm

[astral crest]

https://tenor.com/gIH3OyE8qsK.gif

nice one bro

[hoary raptor]

go chiaki max s1 over valerin