inferno difficulty megathread, happy 100k

[main elm]

Issue with some ppl, when they think they are good at doing something it makes it ok, which is not.

I'm good at cage event doesn't mean that content is fine, it's unfair and really hard for most ppl

[tribal osprey]

Because player retention is needed when you strive for perfection

[undone vortex]

but infinity train is unnecessarily restrictive and not well made, cage match is like way too early

[undone vortex]

like the whole messiah/val getting infinitely pushed back

but they can't die cuz invincibility

[carmine palm]

we were afraid our pvp was boring so we made you stare at the screen doing nothing for 5 minutes instead

[sacred mirage]

This is a say it louder for the people in the back post of all time.

Exactly

[ornate moth]

infinity train is just terrible and boring. Cage Rumble I actually like the idea of but it sucks to have this early when it expects 15 built units

[limpid anchor]

Might found some bug guys, can you check this video clip? Seems that the healing at anisynch Heinrich nightmare is bugged .

When im on heinrich hell , ling luo s3 still heals .

[undone vortex]

cage rumble needed to release much later lol

[ruby canyon]

they should offer trial units for cage match, maybe 1-2 per boss, that are tailored to be good vs them

[main elm]

Is sharon inferno is fine ? No it's 1 of the worst and needs nerf the most

Along with Aurora and Rengo

[ornate moth]

I think they should have released it a few weeks later and on the first run of the event had only 2 bosses unlocked, showing that there is a 3rd boss but not unlocked until next rerun of it. That way we know ahead of time we'll eventually need 15

[warped kestrel]

Everyone who defended Inferno difficulty was either this, or people trying to maintain their advantage over others, or both. Either way, incredibly selfish and stupid people.

[undone vortex]

name em

[main elm]

Basically SSania owners pre-event

[warped kestrel]

No need to witch hunt at this point

[tribal osprey]

It’s a marathon not a sprint

[ornate moth]

too many to name lol, ppl kept trickling into these threads to make the same arguments and it almost always boiled down to one of those types of people

[undone vortex]

u could say they are Adept-ing to the whims of the people

[tribal osprey]

Nah adept wanted it nurfed

[undone vortex]

I'm getting my ppl mixed up

[tribal osprey]

I don’t think you understand. It’s a MARATHON not a SPRINT

[sacred mirage]

What boggles my mind is how low investment like celince/ssania/lily skews the comparative output to input so much.

[warped kestrel]

Even today there were some people in #general-chat complaining about Inferno being made easier because "they worked hard to make their teams work on the current hard Inferno." Absolutely disgusting.

[main elm]

That's normal, I won't wait for a nerf I'll just do it, if nerf happened that's even better

[left snow]

cage would have been a good event

3 months later

when people had multiple teams invested

[main elm]

Indeed

Cage really sucks now

It shouldn't be that hard, yes I'm getting all the rewards but at what cost

[left snow]

@ruby canyon just tried astarte hard on this et

[main elm]

It's should be easy side shit to do

[left snow]

and she was a pushover

[main elm]

Not sweat content lol

[ruby canyon]

lol I made this post week 1 it was a bit exaggerated though https://www.reddit.com/r/Etheria_Restart/comments/1lc20c5/the_endgame_is_currently_horrible_without_ssania/

[undone vortex]

https://discord.com/channels/994852318904340560/1383455528868511825

[ruby canyon]

yeah for sure

[undone vortex]

u can find the haters there

[main elm]

I have SSania but she came too late

She is lvl 1 still

[left snow]

im gonna reset my ssania next reset

[main elm]

She came after I'm farming all inferno without her lol

[sacred mirage]

I got ssania and the amount of investment it saved me was insane.

[ruby canyon]

yh atp if I pulled ssania she'd just rot

[sacred mirage]

She let me skip all those other comps and just go back to tunnel visionint specific units

[main elm]

It's good tho, she'll make me rely on cheese mechanics and not how to actually tackle the content the right way when cheesing isn't possible

[sacred mirage]

My goal is to push my yeli to 300 speed without swiftrush

[ruby canyon]

that's insane

[sacred mirage]

She's 274 atm

[tribal osprey]

With swiftraid?

[sacred mirage]

Yeah

No rush

[tribal osprey]

[sacred mirage]

I still need to latty her more

[tribal osprey]

I just need to farm hoyan tomorrow and pray for a momentum fury swiftraid

[tribal osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/perfection-perfect-michael-fassbender-magneto-x-men-first-class-gif-2260686001358167676

[outer falcon]

Exactly! Perfection matters to Etheria

[left snow]

@ruby canyon 3 dps pickers are cursed people

can you leave me a dps

[tribal osprey]

Hit them with the freya kazuyo

[mental mural]

It stinks

[ruby canyon]

loool doki lily 3 dps is gross

did you at least outspd

[left snow]

yeah i hoyaned him

[outer falcon]

Oh hey it's my draft style

[left snow]

people are still sleeping on hoyan in cleave

she doesnt have many weaknesses

outside of 4 dps teams and massiah

[tribal osprey]

Not sleeping. No tofu

[outer falcon]

I just freeze her

[ruby canyon]

she reminds me a lil of BBK

from e7

[left snow]

thats fair

i would say yeli = mass > hoyan > rosa for cleave atm

in the current meta

[outer falcon]

what investment level do you think she needs to be worth drafting?

[upbeat breach]

from what I saw not that high at all, a 5* hoyan can one shot everything that is not tanky

[left snow]

hm

[tribal osprey]

1/1/1?

[upbeat breach]

I think so

[main elm]

Rosa is really really good for Hoyan imo

[upbeat breach]

Otherwise it wouldnt be 5* 🤣

[tribal osprey]

Damn… wakey wakey hoyan

[main elm]

Very consistently farming it with her

[left snow]

at least 1/1/5

[main elm]

I have stacked Yeli, Rosa just better in there for the constant CO-OP attacks that push the boss CR back

[tribal osprey]

But what if I use Rosa with yeli

[main elm]

Sir Hoyan is dark

[tribal osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/reading-sign-cant-stop-me-no-one-can-stop-me-gif-13921932

[left snow]

we were talking about hoyan the playable character

not the shell boss

[main elm]

https://tenor.com/view/tom-senya-gif-26024901

I'll see my self out

[sacred mirage]

Ive been trying for fury keen eye swift

[left snow]

also do you remember this guy

nsfw yang guy

[main elm]

My DPSers running unconventional 8/8 sets and I think they are doing more than fine

Aka harvest and battlewill

[left snow]

apparently played him like last week

when his yang wasnt so giga

[solid orchid]

wow is yang actually good ?

[main elm]

Tbh he is SR unit but his kit feels SSR

[solid orchid]

i dont even know what he does lol

[main elm]

If he is a waifu I'll garanmathafakinTEE he'll be the most popular SR after Valeri

And diting ofc

[solid orchid]

gonna read his kit in a few

never saw him recommended so I thought he was trash

😅

[main elm]

Atk buff, crit buff, team CR push and strip

Dude just do it all

[left snow]

one of the best openers out there for cleave

[main elm]

He is disregarded coz he is a random highschool dude with gamer shades running with a dog

[solid orchid]

lol thats an interesting way to put it

poor yang

[main elm]

That kit so good it should be slapped in a pair of tits

We stuck with a highschool boy with his dog

[solid orchid]

[main elm]

Ngl tho he looks kinda pretty cool for a highschool kid, but STILL a highschool kid

[graceful cradle]

how are the premium currencies and pulls worthless

[warped kestrel]

Mystical Scrolls from SW, the equivalent to regular Prototypes here, are basically toilet paper at this point. They give like 100 of them in every event and no one cares at this point. The game has been out for so long that pulls just naturally lose value.

In E7, events constantly give you 5* character and artifact books, as well as sometimes multiple "fully-decked" selectors. These things just naturally make pulls in those games far less valuable as time goes on.

[ruby canyon]

yea maybe same reason tc77 is overlooked, even tho he's cracked

[left snow]

rc77 is nuts

highest base speed tieingg kloss in the game

and a massive s3 opener

both kloss and rc 77 are top tier openers for cc teams

[warped kestrel]

What's RC-77's base speed at 6*?

[left snow]

128

same as kloss

[warped kestrel]

Dang

[graceful cradle]

Who ever told you that regarding E7 is full of shit. There's a timer for when units in E7 are eligible to be in Selectors and this still doesn't account for Limiteds, Collab heroes and ML5s. Also worth mentioning sometimes you need dupes for imprints or even a full on second copy for an auxiliary build. The only thing that devalues pulls in E7 is just bad character banners

[warped kestrel]

I return to play E7 every few months and there's always some event going on giving me 5*s. The anniversaries are ridiculous too, they give you like3-5 fully-decked 5 selectors among many other things. What is wrong about any of this? It's what I've been seeing in E7.

[sacred mirage]

You miss key units in those. Shop refreshes and comsistent pvp rankings to provide gems for them are required to f2p meta rgb

Cuz once you miss some banners you are stuck waiting until they are near crept to get them

[tribal osprey]

That’s why going into the standard is kinda shit. Once it goes there you’re never guaranteed to get that character ever again which increases fomo into the limited banners

[scarlet quartz]

OKAY

i just woke up

[warped kestrel]

I mean of course, no game is going to give you the absolute best latest LD/ML5 character for free the moment they release, they have to make money somehow. I don't understand how this changes the fact that regular pulls are worth a lot less in those games these days than they were years ago.

[scarlet quartz]

someone give me the tl;dr of the mood in this channel

[graceful cradle]

I still need to use 3 selectors from this year just to finish my Eligos imprints so he'll have 100% crit and that's with me logging in every day and actually playing the game not being a tourist. You cannot get Rinak in those selectors. You also will not be able to get the current rift unit to farm rift this season either

Fun fact; eligos and 2 imprints is also what i got last year from these selectors

[sacred mirage]

The constant roster updates are what make them viable. You just srent using them to pull standard generic banner.

So id just say the standard banner is meh

[warped kestrel]

You are talking about imprints, man, imprints is a different subject. We're talking about pull-for-pull value. A pull in SW/E7 is basically worthless at this point. You're looking at this from the perspective of using selectors to get dupes of your characters to max imprints, ridiculous.

An average player in a gacha game is happy to just get their first copy of a 5*/SSR character.

[tribal osprey]

No clue. But people seem happy with it and waiting for rengoku next week

[graceful cradle]

First off no one outside of giga whales should just be pulling on covenants in a game where they release like 4-6 new limited banners a year. Your argument is disingenuous from the start

The pull economy is not even remotely comparable

[tight laurel]

It's better than more silence for sure, but it doesn't really change anything for me

Lots of changes are still needed, and without them things aren't going to improve for the vast majority of people

[graceful cradle]

People will go the entire year saving for nothing but the limited banners and still miss sometimes due to the volume

[warped kestrel]

You can call it however you want, but reality is, these days only LD/ML5 pulls are truly worth anything in those games, because regular pulls and RGB selectors are given out like candy. This is true for both of those gachas.

[graceful cradle]

E7 also gets daily summons for free so min 365 free pulls a year not counting the various 77 pull events over time so yeah even with that pulls still have value even for me

[sacred mirage]

Thats patently false with so many limited units being rgb yearly.

[graceful cradle]

I also get ML and RGB coins for dupes

[upbeat breach]

didnt change anything at all

[graceful cradle]

So arguably more value even than in Etheria

[warped kestrel]

This game's generosity is much closer to those 10 year old games than I expect a new gacha game to be, so, it's ridiculous to complain about this game not being generous with premium currency/pulls.

[graceful cradle]

Best unit in the game is an Earth Unit

Best dps carry in the game is a Fire unit

[sacred mirage]

Im not arguing anything other than pointing out saying pulls dont have value in e7 comparatively when they still very much do.

[graceful cradle]

Best healers in the game are Ice units

[warped kestrel]

Are you struggling to get those RGB units in E7? You must be doing something seriously wrong.

[upbeat breach]

I think the problem here is that they are not doing banners for the OP units that are already released, so we are stuck without them if we are not super mega lucky

[sacred mirage]

This.

[graceful cradle]

i never said i was struggling once again thats you making shit up to prove whatever point you're trying to make

[warped kestrel]

True, right now we're at the mercy of the standard banner (my last 7 SSRs have been dupes)

[sacred mirage]

I have 24/26 ssr and still want Lilith sometimes

[graceful cradle]

Lilith is good

[upbeat breach]

They should be doing banners reruns instead of releasing a lot of new units and making it even worse to even get the ones that are actually good

[graceful cradle]

But i wouldn't try to gamble on standard for her

[sacred mirage]

I dont

[upbeat breach]

Mio and Yeli just made it so much worse to get lily for example

[warped kestrel]

If you're not struggling to get RGB characters in those games then maybe it's not that hard to get RGB characters in those games after all? What are you arguing about at this point?

[left snow]

you are making it sound like lilith is bad lol

lilith is great in pvp

[sacred mirage]

No im saying shes good. I dont have her

I dont have her and want her despite having most of the roster

[tribal osprey]

Huh? They all do that at the start

[graceful cradle]

No see this is when you make random shit up to try and fit your narrative. Stay on topic you said pulls are devalued they aren't

[main elm]

Issue is building PvP units for PvP only, game atm doesn't give you that luxury

[inland warren]

I want lily. After that game will be good

[sacred mirage]

I pulled doki 6 times and Heinrich 5 times but no Lilith lmao

[graceful cradle]

Doesn't matter if they are hard to get or not the pulls are not devalued

[warped kestrel]

Gacha games are stingy with their events and repeatable content rewards. They're only generous with the amount of currency you get through story and first-time rewards. This game is very generous with its events and repeatable content.

[warped kestrel]

At first* as time goes on, they get increasingly more generous, because they have to.

[left snow]

ember trek alone gives like

1 patch worth of resources in wuwa

[tribal osprey]

No. Gachas are incredibly more generous at the start to draw players in. That’s why it’s called the honeymoon period

[tight laurel]

If you can clear it all, and I bet 99% aren't finishing hard

It being really rewarding for only the most skilled, most whaled, most veteran players isn't good for the health of the game. It's just a different instance of the "only some can farm inferno" problem

[warped kestrel]

Or 1 year worth of the 2/4-week repeatable content equivalent to Trek in any of the Hoyo games

[left snow]

this season of ember trek is really easy tbh

like even before astarte nerfs

[warped kestrel]

Even ToA/ToAH in SW, which is the Trek equivalent, gives like 20%-30% of what Trek gives, and that's 10 years old game.

[left snow]

last months mechanic was aids

this month is insanely easy

🤷‍♂️

also in wuwa f2p couldnt even clear ToA for like a really long time

even the most skilled players could only do it

after like 20-30 days

average player still struggles with it after a year into the release

[pearl knot]

its a pve game not a pvp one tho

[tight laurel]

Thank god, haven't looked yet. No random stuns anymore?

[left snow]

no

just some poison damage

[tribal osprey]

Are they?

[tight laurel]

🙏

[left snow]

that barely feels like it deals damage

[warped kestrel]

We may have different definitions on the word "value" here.

SW used to give you 5-10 mystical scrolls per event 5+ years ago, now they give you 50-100, this, in my definition of value, makes mystical scroll a far less valuable item, even though it is still a necessary item to get RGB characters.

[ruby canyon]

usually endgame is rly hard 1st month because last ascension lvl is locked behind account lvl, here you could technically 6* lvl 50 day 1

[tight laurel]

That was one piece of content, and there were plenty of other things you could do and get 95% of progression items

Here? It's like 70% of the game is ToA difficulty and a lot of people feel miserable bc they want the resources but cannot reach them, day after day after day. It's understandably frustrating (and garbage design and balancing)

[warped kestrel]

This is a good point, and this is why I don't give Etheria much of a hard time on them constantly releasing new characters, because as long as they continue to be generous with their premium currency, I feel I have no right to tell them to slow down.

[tight laurel]

And also a great point about it being a PVE game

[left snow]

fair enough

[tribal osprey]

Etheria just got confused about what are endgame and what are farming stages

I’m just waiting to slap hoyan tomorrow

[warped kestrel]

There must be a dev who spent too much time playing MMORPGs right before release and lost sight of what kind of game they were developing

I can't find any other explanation to all the weird design inconsistencies

[tight laurel]

My theory is some dev had skill issues and didn't want others to progress at all

[ruby canyon]

fr some of the bosses feel made for 5 man dungeon teams

but shoehorned into a turn based gacha game

[tight laurel]

But didn't go far enough so now 1% can clear everything and 99% are crawling forward at a snails pace

[pearl knot]

the clock girl on ember trek hard was pure ass if you didnt meet the speed check

[tribal osprey]

It’s a marathon not a sprint

[warped stump]

i dont get that meme

aside from the fact that inferno shell droprates are actually trolling levels bad

these types of games do tend to be a long grind to get better gear

[warped kestrel]

It's someone who has Lily and SSania, sprinting through the game, while telling everyone else that "it's a marathon, not a sprint"

[warped stump]

oh

lol

[warped kestrel]

This game is indeed a marathon, not a sprint, just like all these games are. The issue is that the people who have Lily and SSania can actually play it competitively, everyone else has to suck it up, and they're mostly the ones saying that phrase here.

[main elm]

In all honesty Ember Trek rewards is kinda generous compared to most games, specially coz it's available to get them all over again every month, but I'd rather skip the rewards than do the shitty stealth simulator for over 40 times a month

[warped stump]

im just sitting here with those two farming an army of yellow shells im on day 4 of not hitting a 3 liner jackal from hoyan with ~1400 energy a day

[tight laurel]

NoOoOoOo I'm actually very smart, you have to have a high IQ like me to do it, I'm the best gamer ever, I could totally do it without Lily or ssania if I wanted, it's so easy

[main elm]

They really need to do something about this god awful replayability

[warped stump]

normally itd be a marathon but rn it feels like a marathon but theres a crowd throwing rocks at me

[warped kestrel]

• Then do it?
• Lol why would I, I have Lily and SSania

[tight laurel]

Was sarcasm 🙂

[main elm]

That's why u need to marathon with a full plated gear, yes it's pretty uncomfortable and shit but unfortunately that's the only way right now

[warped kestrel]

I know, my message was continuing the conversation as it has gone every time

[tight laurel]

I have them both, things still suck

But am very fortunate 🙏

[main elm]

Shadow Sania what, b!tch will be so irrelevant in farming very soon

Lily is ur true inequality enemy, though lately I'm seeing her in less teams than almost every team lately

[warped kestrel]

I know that Lily is the real problem, we just can't fight that enemy until Inferno stages are doable by all without her, then and only then will Lily havers peacefully accept what needs to be done about Lily

[ruby canyon]

lily is a very versatile unit and great use of lattice

but eventually no speed clear will use her

[warped stump]

nah

i'd still be annoyed if they nerfed her

theres more pressing nonsense to deal with imo

[warped kestrel]

In a future where you are doing all Inferno stages without her and she is basically only prevalent as a perma pick/ban in PvP, and the nerf comes with a free Lily reset. Why would you be annoyed about her?

[warped stump]

notably bloodbath making your whole team invulnerable unless your opponent brings out the ion cannon aka revelation cannons

[left snow]

You can work around bloodbath be smart

[main elm]

Nerfing Lily is most def not the solution, introduce more units that synergies less with her, and tbh, I could be wrong but I tried Lily with Yeli and she gave me less results than Tsuki with Yeli on Cage event Sharon

[left snow]

I cleave through bloodbath just fine

[warped kestrel]

There will come a point where everyone will complain that she's a constant pick/ban in PvP, unless she gets powerecrept... and at that point we have bigger issues

[main elm]

And tbh, Tsuki on shit gear with 0 lettuce

[ruby canyon]

the shorter the fight, the more specialised units like tsuki, beyontin, dorothy the wisher will outperform lily

she's good for long fights and super versatile

[warped stump]

imo lily is just a fairly well-rounded support, she's not the best in slot at anything from what i've seen except being well-rounded enough to slot in nicely

[main elm]

Tbh it was a longer fight, Tskui outperformed Lily with Yeli on Cage event Sharon for me

[warped kestrel]

Openers are the most essential units in turn-based strategy games, and Lily is an extremely fast and effective opener, I don't see how Lily can ever leave the meta unless she gets powercrept.

[left snow]

Tsuki is bonkers tbh

[ruby canyon]

then you didnt have another source of atk buff which makes sense

[main elm]

Team wide atk&speed buff, constant CR push + constant team wide CD reduction

She is underappreciated coz ppl fixated on Lily so much

[warped stump]

i think tsukiyomi is really nice for yeli lol, -1 cd is enough with a 3 turn cd to really help accelerate her gameplay

[warped kestrel]

Don't forget the extremely high base SPD.

[main elm]

She is a goddamn powerhouse

[left snow]

Yeah tsuki is nuts

[warped stump]

when y'all say CR i read crit rate, what is the other term being used here

because I know Tsuki doesn't buff crit rate

[ruby canyon]

probably combat readiness

which is e7's way of saying turn meter/action advance

[warped stump]

is that another term for attack bar

okay got it

[scarlet quartz]

yea

turn meter in this game

combat readiness in e7

[main elm]

I'm faulting the devs less on the Lily subject, Doki and Tsuki are just as much of a powerhouses if u just invest on them instead of waiting for Lily

[warped stump]

Doki is absolutely wild in some games lmao

[left snow]

I think people are sleeping on tsuki since she is low in tier lists

[warped stump]

if you can't knock her team down instantly she scales so fast

[warped kestrel]

Doki's base SPD is too low

[warped stump]

yeah idk why, tsuki's kit is actually wicked

[main elm]

The community issue is listening to Prydwen imo

[warped kestrel]

PvP in turn-based games is all about SPD

[warped stump]

prydwen is good for pve stuff, pvp stuff its a bit more hit or miss

[warped kestrel]

A 120 base SPD opener can't compete

[left snow]

Not really

[ruby canyon]

ppl fixate on prydwen tier lists, when the ppl managing those often dont actually play the game

[main elm]

Marvel is like 117 I think

[left snow]

You don't need to play a fast team

Tank team is the best team of the meta atm

[left snow]

Has no fast openers

[warped stump]

not to mention the shells im not gonna go down the list of

but theres plenty of options that dont fixate on base speed in this game

[left snow]

I've been saying most popular pvp team in high elo is tank team

[warped kestrel]

Marvel is only good because it's very early into the game, we're all playing with inconsistent speeds. There will come a point where your rank in RTA will be directly determined by your fastest opener character, and everyone at the upper ranks will have basically max speed rolled speed sets, which means that even 1 base SPD will be the difference

[left snow]

And there is a reason

[warped kestrel]

This is how it is in every one of these games

[warped stump]

i played through the nonsense moore cheongpung meta in SW where it actually was a speed contest disaster, you either took turn 1 or never moved until you lost

this game doesn't have nearly that level of stopping power

[left snow]

That sounds terrible

But meta is not like that at all here

[warped stump]

oh yeah it sounded just as bad as it actually was

[left snow]

There is a reason why tank team is the most popular s in high elo

[warped kestrel]

SW is still a speed contest, and it has been in every meta, even in bruiser meta

If you take first turn and buff/debuff+ATK bar push, you're so far ahead it'll be hard to lose

[main elm]

I mean, Lily is just a much shittier version of Tsuki in PvP

It's just ppl went all mad investment on Lily coz community

And their stupid tier lists

Funny Tsuki is just as good in PvE of well invested lol

[ruby canyon]

we went mad on lily cause building her means you dont have to build 5 specialised units for different content

you dont have infinite lattice this early

[left snow]

Tbh tsuki doesn't require lattice

Like at all lol

[warped kestrel]

Tsuki has 122 base SPD, that alone makes her a far worse character to Lily's 127 in a well-established PvP scene where everyone is running BiS, perfectly rolled gear

[main elm]

Not everything is base speed comparison

[warped stump]

i think its moreso that lily works great in pvp so people invest in her and just dual slot her for pvp

but once everyone's got pve on lockdown lily's usage will definitely fall quite fast

[main elm]

I have mio 330 and got outsped by Doki

In PvP

Kloss fastest and she is average in PvP

[warped kestrel]

It's a turn-based game... what turn-based PvP game isn't determined by who takes first turn and buffs team/debuffs enemies + atk bar push team to all lap enemy team?

[warped stump]

she'll be a solid speed contest but she is definitely not going to be like the first pick or lose unit, you'll need to draft well around her

[warped kestrel]

I've never played one that doesn't work like that

And so far, this one has proven to be the same.

[left snow]

This game

[left snow]

You keep saying you don't actually play PvP

[warped kestrel]

Really? Every fight I'm in is determined by who takes first turn

[warped stump]

well, this game has bloodbath, bulwark for runes and stuff like alicorn amber etc for shells

[left snow]

Why are you assuming you know how pvp works here

[warped kestrel]

If my Mio takes first turn, I get to push the enemy team back while pushing my team forward, and basically debuffing/CCing them to death

[left snow]

Low elo problem due to lack of options and game understanding

[warped kestrel]

They can mitigate that with Bulwark, but there's only so much they can do

[left snow]

Mio is a dead opener

If my tsukiyo is picked

[warped stump]

strippers in this game are abysmal dogshit compared to other more established games

bulwark is actually insane right now

[left snow]

And lily is banned

[warped kestrel]

Strippers will become more popular the more protection sets people get, it's always the same.

Openers push stripper, stripper strips enemy team > cleave. And sometimes the opener does all of that by itself

[left snow]

I'm not sure why you pretend like you know better than heal and myself we both play PvP

Yes they exist

Yes people use strippers

And no it isn't enough

Lol

[warped stump]

yea it ain't that easy

look no further than people first picking a unit who cleanses every skill (lingluo) lmao

[left snow]

Why do you think most popular team ATM is non speed team

Team with sub 300 speed

[warped kestrel]

I don't pretend to know more about turn-based PvP than you, I know at least as much as you do, and if you do know, then you're just being disingenuous to defend your Lily from the inevitable nerfs.

[warped stump]

seeing that shit in tournament was crazy to me but it worked well

[left snow]

Vs 330-350 speed of cleave teams

Yeah you are just hopeless idk what to say

People play tank teams with sub 300 speed

Instead of cleave with 340 speed

For a reason

It works

It's not as simple as Heinrich the bullwark

[warped kestrel]

At the end of the day, Lily being a pick/ban character in basically 95-100% of games will put her in the radar for a nerf eventually. There is no disingenuous argument you can make to change this reality.

[warped stump]

i feel like even though it's usually nonsense it's applicable here

what rank are you that lily is pickban

lmao

[left snow]

I haven't ban lily in some time

Nor my opponents

[glass ruin]

hey would u guys recommend building lilith for pvp

[warped stump]

cause this sounds like my gold 2 games, meanwhile tournaments im seeing units like fking lingluo being first picked and banned

[warped kestrel]

Master RTA, Mythic arena, Lily is ever-present in every game

[left snow]

No it's not

[warped stump]

master rta?

[left snow]

Lingluo and tiamat are most contested unit

[warped stump]

okay next question does she counter your draft lmao

[warped kestrel]

Lily, Kloss, Mio, Freya - always at least one of them. What do they all have in common? excellent openers with 126+ base SPD

[outer falcon]

Who knows what that will look like by the end of the season though

[left snow]

Kloss is average in pvp

Like holy shit

You are not higher than plat

[glass ruin]

what do people run on lingluo in pvp

bloodbath?

[left snow]

Bullwark

She is the most contested pick atm

[glass ruin]

which 2 sets?

[left snow]

Depends but bullwark + bloodbath is common

Bullwark must

Bloodbath can be changed

[warped stump]

i saw a bloodbath bulwark one in the stream tournament, i also saw a swiftrush bulwark one too

[glass ruin]

i see

does bloodbath work vs revelation

[left snow]

Yep this

[warped kestrel]

Most contested picks are Lily and Mio, I don't know who you're to fool here.

[warped stump]

i think she just needs to go bulwark to not get cc'd out turn 1, then either swift to cut and keep tempo or bloodbath to tank it out

[glass ruin]

hmm, so speed req is not very high right?

[left snow]

You have absolutely no fricking idea what you are talking about

[warped stump]

i'd imagine you'd want her on your faster runes

but of those sets

[left snow]

Your gold games don't represent mythic and master games

[glass ruin]

aight

[left snow]

Tank teams are most common

[glass ruin]

how about lilith, is she used?

[warped stump]

she saw a lot of play at tournament

[left snow]

Great pick for cc teams and tank teams

[glass ruin]

no lattice though sad

[outer falcon]

Lilith fucks

[left snow]

She can also function in cleave

[outer falcon]

You don't combine Seara with the Occult Girl family and end up with trash

[left snow]

Lilith is a great pvp unit

[glass ruin]

i assume she's lattice dependent?

[warped stump]

lilith actually seems diabolical in content, aoe bombs are so good for control and then the single target detonate is nice for instant cc

[glass ruin]

i guess everything is in pvp

[warped stump]

rev up that visa card get them lattices

[left snow]

I'll screenshot some of the drafts that happen

When I hop into the game

[glass ruin]

i have like 5 helkids

dont see much of those

oh does lingluo run alicorn or?

[warped stump]

this is one i can't confirm, but i think it makes sense on her

also gigabyte seems like it'd be amazing on her too, more turns to heal/cleanse

[glass ruin]

i could invest in an alicorn i guess

does tank team require tiamat though

[left snow]

open lily and mio

open lily and mio

lily open and picked

no ban

if i ban lily here i lose btw

[warped kestrel]

These could be specific drafts you're selecting from a pool of 95% lily and mios, and you could even be picking lily and mio in these, I don't understand what any of this is supposed to prove

Why are you trying so hard to defend your Lily from her inevitable nerfs?

[left snow]

i dont even play lily

im a tsukiyomi abuser

[warped kestrel]

Yeah sure

[left snow]

you are just clueless about how pvp actually is atm

[warped stump]

this discussion will not end, i am 99% confident lily will see zero nerfs, but you two will never convince each other

[warped kestrel]

Keep defending Lily, I don't think it'll matter. Stats will make it clear beyond any shadow of a doubt that she cannot remain the way she is indefinitely.

[warped kestrel]

Only time will tell

[left snow]

this is just hilarious

[warped kestrel]

I know that she won't see any nerfs any time soon, they just can't afford to do that

[left snow]

i dont play pvp but i know pvp at least as much as people who play pvp

[warped kestrel]

50% of the playerbase rerolled for a Lily and she's the main reason people are able to clear Inferno reasonably

She cannot be nerfed right now

But eventually, they will be able to

[ruby canyon]

why would they nerf her eventually

[warped stump]

so hold on do we not see the correlation between 'people own unit' -> 'people pick unit a lot even if not optimal'

[ruby canyon]

she's only good right now with so few resources

[half lodge]

XD

[warped kestrel]

Just read through my statements here, I guess, don't feel like repeating myself 20 times for every Lily defender here

[warped stump]

can we not see in two months, maybe, 'people have more options' -> 'people do not pick her as much' -> 'unit was potentially fine the whole time'

[glass ruin]

watch her be powercrept by the dark guy

[left snow]

i mean of course alot of people perma pick lily in low elo because thats the only investment average people has

like

[ruby canyon]

cause you put zero thought into any of your messages it's just emotion

[warped stump]

yeah like i fp lily cause im gold and im a dumbass who verticals lattices instead of investing smart but i do not claim to be a mythic warlord in rta

(shes funny in etharena though cause i bully people with speed)

[left snow]

#1384230665461170346 message

this is just mental statement

like you lost me here

[warped kestrel]

Sure, this is a possibility, it's a possibility that Lily will get powercrept by something even more disgusting, but that'd be a problem on its own.

Thing is, no matter if it's 6 months or 6 years down the line, fast openers are absolutely essential in every turn-based strategy game, as they set the stage for how the game plays out, so, Lily has a timeless, essential kit that can only be either nerfed or powercrept.

[glass ruin]

actually is lily a fast opener

[left snow]

her base speed is fast yeah

[glass ruin]

is she the fastest?

[left snow]

no

kloss and rc 77 faster

[warped kestrel]

She has `127 base SPD, the second highest base SPD in the game aside from the 128 base characters

[left snow]

but kloss opener is very iffy

[glass ruin]

i see

are there like, any good chars that dont require much lattice investment in pvp

[ruby canyon]

rc gets 3 less speed from prowess so only kloss is faster

[half lodge]

u are not kidding that rc 77 got the same speed as kloss ?

[warped kestrel]

Lily is, all things considered, the best opener in the game

[left snow]

both are at 128 yep

[half lodge]

damn and he is sr

[left snow]

there is a reason why people pick him quite often in my games

[warped kestrel]

Mio is arguably better, but she's only 126 base and countered by a module set

[left snow]

[glass ruin]

wait time to build rc77

[graceful cradle]

I'm amazed you wasted this much time with him

Dude just constantly strawmans

[left snow]

i try to interact with everybody no matter how wrong they may be

but disrespect is insane

[graceful cradle]

https://tenor.com/view/moving-goalposts-goalposts-changing-requirements-gif-25214446

[left snow]

like at least respect my intelligence

i actually play pvp

at least acknowledge i might have insight that you dont

[graceful cradle]

Fair enough lol

[left snow]

but nah

[warped kestrel]

Cry harder, it's not my fault you're constantly being intellectually dishonest.

[graceful cradle]

Nah this guy knows everything despite being a table 500 Timmy

Meanwhile you actually compete

[ruby canyon]

is it everyone else being intellectually dishonest? or maybe you are the problem...?

[left snow]

nah i surely got to top 20 only becaue of lily

without lily i would be gold

(i only pick lily if tsukiyomi is pre banned)

[graceful cradle]

Lily do be the goat indeed

[left snow]

sigh

im done

[warped kestrel]

I've never said that everyone is being intellectually dishonest though, have I? I said that "zaeeッ" is being intellectually dishonest. Why are you putting words in my mouth?

[graceful cradle]

I wish I pulled Tsuk on this account instead i gotta get creative with my speed opener

[glass ruin]

any rta youtubers?

[left snow]

funny thing is i literally screenshotted the last 10 games i played

and none of them were lily bans

she was open in all

[half lodge]

real chads main Heinrich

[left snow]

but either not picked or not banned

[graceful cradle]

I'm apparently intellectually dishonest because he tried to claim E7 summons have bo value i proceeded to used multiple examples to prove him wrong which he still refuted with well they aren't cuz of this metric I decided

[warped kestrel]

She's still getting nerfed eventually though, and you'll have to accept that reality.

[left snow]

i mean sure thats fine by me if happens

[warped kestrel]

Good, because it will

[left snow]

not sure why you think i use her to death

[graceful cradle]

This is also after he tried to claim they were less valuable for some other random reason. Then tried to change the metric again

[glass ruin]

i actually lost track of this convo

is this just about is lily op

[graceful cradle]

Tbf lily kinda reminds me of SPP where you can kinda bait yourself with your draft

[left snow]

well anyway its pointless atp

we can agree to disagree

[warped stump]

this is one person attempting to convince the rest of the chat that lily's op in pvp and not just good at dungeons

[left snow]

maybe he is right, lily will become the best opener later who knows

[warped kestrel]

Just a feeling. People who rabidly defend the best opener in the game, and a character that a massive amount of people rerolled for, tend to have a personal reason to do that, it just makes sense.

[glass ruin]

oh

i know nothing about rta so no comment

[graceful cradle]

I'd gladly trade my lily for a SSania

But that's just me ig

[warped stump]

a little delulu too but we're in a chat that people made to complain about the game state so that's expected

[glass ruin]

are there pvp resources anywhere btw

[half lodge]

@left snow i really wonder what do you trhink about lilith in pvp

[glass ruin]

just wanna see some comps/builds

[ruby canyon]

given that the next balance changes are with the rta season in 2.5 months, I highly doubt she will be ubiquitous enough to be touched

but they might shave a few points of base speed off

[left snow]

very strong in a lot of different teams

currently 4 teams are very prevelant in mythic rta

cc, cleave, tank, rev abuse

lilith is good in the first 3 of them

so pretty good

[graceful cradle]

Lilith is a menace and more people will realize shes op

[half lodge]

what is current tank team?
rahu holden tiamat flex?

[left snow]

tank team is the best team in the game atm

[graceful cradle]

She's literally HP scaling Seaseria which never should have existed

[left snow]

since it has the most amount of flex picks

and requires least gear investment

[graceful cradle]

You only need 1

[warped kestrel]

Whether Lily can be nerfed in 3 months or not will entirely depend on the state of the game by then - if Lily becomes completely unnecessary in PvE and she's just used in PvP, it can happen, otherwise, she has at least another 6 months to remain the way she is.

[left snow]

you dont care about speed

[graceful cradle]

They're all hyper carries behind 3 supports

[left snow]

for tank team your dps options are

[main elm]

No body defending Lily, I'm just saying she'll never see a nerf coz it'll be the worst decision ever made, also the fact that Doki and Tsuki exist but ppl refuse to invest in these just because of a flawed meta sheeping

[graceful cradle]

Lilith Tia Rahu Holden

[warped kestrel]

Why would it be "the worst decision ever made"?

[graceful cradle]

Any one of them plus a team of supports can just win

[glass ruin]

nice, i have lilith/rahu

[half lodge]

is there in e7 lili?

[graceful cradle]

Lilith or Lily

[left snow]

Tiamat/Borgne/Lilith/Rahu/holden

support options are

freya/linglou/sania/red chiaki/kazuyo/dokidoki

almost always must pick -> viper

@half lodge

[half lodge]

lily sory

[left snow]

those are the most common tank team picks

[graceful cradle]

Borgne im still not convinced on tbh

[left snow]

there are a few more that i cant recall atm

[left snow]

he is cope

[glass ruin]

if i can only build 1, lilith or rahu?

[half lodge]

thanks for answering dude so insitfguly i really apreciate this

[left snow]

he is picked when you are in a tank vs tank game

and other options are banned or picked

[graceful cradle]

There's a couple. Lily is like an amalgamation of like 3 openers

[ruby canyon]

summertime iseria is similar if you mean that

[graceful cradle]

All meta defining when they came out

[graceful cradle]

He means lily

[ruby canyon]

oh

[main elm]

She isn't that OP in PvP like how ppl made her seems to be, she has all the investment coz PvE needs that, so she is also used as opener in PvP coz that's what ppl investing on.

Why nerf a unit that makes PvE easier when ppl crying for PvE nerfs ?

That's why it's worst decision, nerfing a unit that help u in PvE

Is backfire

[graceful cradle]

I know shits gone sideways when I agree with you

[warped kestrel]

But you completely ignored the scenario I presented earlier. I said that the first thing that needs to happen for Lily to even be nerfable, is that she needs to be completely unnecessary in PvE. I know that she can't be nerfed right now due to the state of PvE.

[graceful cradle]

But yeah Tsuki and Doki are both at the same level of busted yet no one pays them any mind

[graceful cradle]

No she just cant be nerfed period. For another 86 days to be exact

[warped kestrel]

120 and 122 base speed is far inferior to 127 base speed once everyone is running max rolled speed sets. This is how it always is.

[graceful cradle]

Hmm Lilith

[main elm]

Ok then why nerf her when she becomes unnecessary in PvE? Coz she isn't really top opener in PvP at all

[graceful cradle]

Her control can single handedly win games and shes more flexible

[left snow]

that guy has the ability to know pvp better than people who actually play pvp without playing pvp

i am convinced

[graceful cradle]

Rahu needs to either be the focal point or you're anchoring him cuz you lost draft

[half lodge]

I have another question @left snow is kloss used in high lvl pvp? I assume not

[glass ruin]

kk, was leaning towards lilith too

[warped kestrel]

Once she becomes unnecessary in PvE, if she remains a constant pick/ban character, that would call for a nerf, that's the basis characters are usually nerfed on in PvP games.

[glass ruin]

just so lattice starved its crazy

[left snow]

she is insanely rare to see

[graceful cradle]

Yes

[half lodge]

thaths what i thought

[graceful cradle]

But shes falling ooff

[left snow]

i dont think ive seen her picked in my last 20 games

[main elm]

Ppl ban her now coz everyone and his mother throwing all their speed gear on her

[left snow]

but i know a friend of mine who plays kloss

[half lodge]

y tyhats why i thought

[left snow]

and is top 20

[graceful cradle]

People are favoring safer openers

[main elm]

That's the main reason why she is banned

[left snow]

or top 25

nvm he is top 27 atm

but yeah i digress

[warped kestrel]

And you think this will change? why would it? she's an opener, every time you see her, you know she's the fastest character in the team.

[left snow]

kloss requires too many things to go well to be viable as an opener

[graceful cradle]

Lily isn't that safe of an opener either tbh

[main elm]

The fuck is she giving in PvP ? 30% CR push with like, speed buff ?

Tsuki is like 80% with atk and speed buff

[graceful cradle]

And if you don't have a good draft around lily and the carry you plan to boost she kind of can be a liability

[main elm]

Doki CR push whole team

Yang CR push whole team

[graceful cradle]

I think the control openers are much better

[warped kestrel]

She's guaranteed to take a turn, Tsuki isn't

[ruby canyon]

doki also just invalidates all cc lol

[main elm]

Gear says that

Not the unit

[graceful cradle]

Have yall seen the 330 speed Ling openers?

[left snow]

like, you must not face tank team (80-90% of people play tank at this elo)

you must have a dispel faster than kloss (good luck with this)

rest of the team must be fast enough so her lack of utility wont hurt your teams turns @half lodge

[warped kestrel]

You're viewing this from the perspective that a 122 base SPD character is allowed to take a turn, which in ideal circumstances where everyone is drafting properly and with maxed out gear, realistically won't happen

[indigo oyster]

all these pvp talk while i drop my RTA rank to play with bots

[graceful cradle]

Giving team immunity LOL

[half lodge]

thanks for the insight

[main elm]

My 330 getting outsped by Doki and Tsuki most of the time in top 100 Etherena, so how is she garanteed to take 1st turn ?

They just have better gear

[left snow]

like you are ignoring the fact that

[half lodge]

skill issue

[left snow]

lily doesnt help team anywhere near tsukiyomi does

[sacred mirage]

hides my 7 lattice tsuki no tsuki and doki suck boo! Boo I say!

[left snow]

for lily to make sure your other team members take their turn

[graceful cradle]

People are literally running faster Lings than 330

[left snow]

your other characters must be insanely fast

[graceful cradle]

Like it's always people that don't know speaking as if they do

[left snow]

tsukiyomi can make a low speed character take a turn with her turn meter push

lily can't

[warped kestrel]

This is early game, man, no one is running optimized gear. I'm talking about top 1% eventually, once everyone has maxed out speed rolls, at that point, even 1 base SPD will be the difference.

[left snow]

she is not a great opener solely because of this reason

you are going to need 280+ speed dps for lily to work

300+ later on

[glass ruin]

thats true

[main elm]

Even late game u'll never have normalized speed in PvP, look at E7 gearing

[glass ruin]

in normal arena i always have to lily my mio

[left snow]

tsukiyomi provides so much more

[orchid jackal]

I'm low ranked in RTA but I'm pretty interested in whats good at a high level right now.. Is there any way I can get this sort of info? Do the teams shown at the rankings mean anything?

[glass ruin]

for m ydp sto move

[left snow]

you dont need insanely fast dps with tsukiyomi

she just provides more support

like way more

my massiah is 290 speed atm

because lily doesnt do jack shit

[main elm]

U could run a snail with stacked damage gear with Tsuki and Doki, Lily? No u can't

[left snow]

with tsukiyomi i can get away with 240

[left snow]

thats the thing, just being fast isnt enough

both doki and tsukiyo provides a lot to the team

fun fact my massiah with 280 speed wasnt enough to go before my opponent

when lily is my opener

[warped kestrel]

I don't know about E7's highest ranks, since I never played at that level in E7, but in SW's highest ranks, everyone is running max rolled speed sets or extremely close to it on their openers.
Thing is, this game's stat ranges are a lot lower than those games, allowing for significantly easier maxed out SPD rolls.

[left snow]

but with tsukiyomi my yeli with 230 speed is fast enough

[main elm]

I use Mio, I could get away with slow DPS, coz fast DPS sucks on autoing, screw up turn order lol

[left snow]

no idea

you can ask

[half lodge]

you have written above a lot good explanantion

with teamconps etc

@orchid jackal go up

[glass ruin]

say u have a fully stacked lattice rosa, and u hit yeli on ur summons

[left snow]

btw i dont actually play tank atm

[glass ruin]

would u invest all lattice into yeli

[left snow]

i am building a tank team

but i dont play the team

[orchid jackal]

I only read the more recent convo, I'll take a look at the earlier stuff, ty!

[left snow]

my insight is from just seeing my opponents play

and talking with other players

i dont know what to max on tiamat for example

[orchid jackal]

Do the tank teams run both bulwark and bloodbath btw?

[left snow]

some do some dont

it depends on your setup and how you build the rest of your characters

for example tiamat doesnt run bullwark

just bloodbath with amber shell

supports use bloodbath + lighthouse

well some of them

viper and linglou can run alicorn

[main elm]

Tbh I regret fully investing in Lily and not Doki, fully invested Doki is just better overall

[left snow]

since they need to be not cc'ed

viper is your most vital pick for a tank comp

like its the only pick where its non negotiable

you want him

rest you dont need and can flex pick

[orchid jackal]

oh damn, thats interesting. Is Mio kinda cooked when a lot of ppl are on bulwark btw?

[left snow]

nope

you just need a fast dispel like heinrich

uh there is this guy called Hades

he plays cc team

has a very fast heinrich

[ruby canyon]

I still like lily but doki is crazy yea

[left snow]

like 320 speed

[main elm]

Very

[ruby canyon]

and only gets better the longer the fight goes

also better codex user

[main elm]

Bulwark also means shit if u run like Tsuki with Messiah

[left snow]

doki also provides value to every single team comp

[main elm]

[left snow]

like you can first pick doki

and your opponent would have no idea what team you are gonna play

if you first pick massiah he knows whats coming

[ruby canyon]

yup

[orchid jackal]

Very interesting, thanks for the info guys

[left snow]

thats why i first pick holden usually

people think i am gonna play tank team and dont ban protect viper

then i ban viper

and they are in cleaving range

[main elm]

Though not sure if meta will become bulwark, coz bulwark will be pointless investment if ppl doesn't run CC 1st openers, which really few does

[left snow]

yep meta has been changing

people are adapting

a lot less cc openers around now

[sacred mirage]

Same ngl. Doki is pretty high up for me after yeli. I have her full dupe cuz luck so im hype about it when its done

[ruby canyon]

idk it's good against yeli and rosa too

[main elm]

U'll just counter mio, and how many ppl run Mio compared to push ur DPS and nuke ? Very little

[left snow]

i havent seen kloss opener in ages

[ruby canyon]

rosa cant followup, yeli cant def break

massiah just ignores it tho

[left snow]

a lot of tank players pre ban massiah

[main elm]

If Yeli nuke u with attack buff and revelation ur gone mate

[left snow]

unless they know you and also know that you dont play massiah

[main elm]

Same as Messiah

[sacred mirage]

Yep then they ban ur other dps

[main elm]

[left snow]

prime example of this

guy thought i was going tank team so he picked tiamat and linglou after i picked holden

[ruby canyon]

it rly depends.. if you have to build a 280 spd yeli she's not gonna get through 50k hp+bloodbath

[left snow]

to take away tank team picks from me

[main elm]

Viper is the most anti cleave unit, I won't be surprised if he will become the normal preban

[left snow]

i think its better to bait your opponent into not ban protecting viper

personally

[sacred mirage]

What's the standard rin build anyway

[left snow]

if you draft smart and dont make your team obvious from first pick

[main elm]

Hein fucks Lingluo

[left snow]

most dont ban protect him

[main elm]

That's lily enjoers Yeli, ain't building that

Weak sauce

U either Mio or Tsuki if u want a real DPS in

[left snow]

rc 77 and yang

imo are better than mio

[main elm]

Yang very unpopular

Atm at least

[left snow]

i see him played by 3-4 guys

[sacred mirage]

I wanna run him after I get 9 pip codex

[glass ruin]

wait, if i wanna play tank team i can just farm aurora all the way

thats nice

[left snow]

yes

its easier to build compared to other teams

problem is as you climb up you are going to need a LOT of flex picks

since 90% of people play it

you can cleave with like 8 units raised to compare

[glass ruin]

where do u get all the lattices lmao

[sacred mirage]

Anybody know best rin build?

I havent done testing yet

[glass ruin]

would u invest in yeli, if u have a fully built rosa?

[sacred mirage]

The unbowed

[left snow]

no

[ruby canyon]

I wanna know where ppl get multiple 330+ spd sets 😭

[orchid jackal]

What are the usual suspects in the tank team? Lingluo, Viper, Tiamat... Holden, Rahu? Helkid?

[left snow]

but i would reset rosa to raise yeli instead

[glass ruin]

i would too..

[left snow]

opinions ahead

massiah = yeli >>> hoyan = rosa for cleave

[glass ruin]

i dont think there will be another reset soon i think

so im kinda stuck

i didnt expect them to just release a better rosa

lol

[glass ruin]

sounds right

what's liliths skill priority?

s3 > s2?

[left snow]

havent raised her yet

i think healfree plays tank he can answer

[glass ruin]

u play cleave right

[left snow]

yup

you can use lilith in cleave but i am not using her

[glass ruin]

whats ur team looking like

[left snow]

secret

[glass ruin]

lmao

[left snow]

in my defense last time i talked about it

people started pre banning my setup and picking my dps

i had to take a few days of break from rta

[glass ruin]

time to change name everytime u rta

100 crystal fee

[left snow]

asked my friend for his lilith

s3>s2>s1 for skill prio

s1 can be skipped if short on lattice

[solid orchid]

is that an opener ?

[main elm]

U underplaying Rosa imo, she is kinda close to Yeli on DPS with garantee follow up that makes Valeri useless

Since both I have them fully invested with relatively same gear

[left snow]

nope

[left snow]

thats a possibility

i dont think she is bad, i think rosa is good

just not as good as yeli or mass imo

[scarlet quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/ultrasad-gif-23310565

somebody tell brother obol how to stun

[pale jetty]

cachi og been my goat for this

[scarlet quartz]

how do u fit cachi in that

do u use ssania?

[pale jetty]

still tho.. those durands got some effect res cause how am i missing stuns and 225 effect

https://discord.com/channels/994852318904340560/1388069765515444444

followed this team

cachi, kloss, lily, diting

got my 3 stars with that and its like 70% success. although i did give my kloss codex instead of bear

so she can land that debuff

[scarlet quartz]

I usually get around the same 70% ish winrate with obol kloss diting rosa

[mental mural]

Be faster

[twilit vault]

perfect Ember Trek Hard 42 end screen for the perfect PVE unit 👌

[scarlet quartz]

just sometimes obol aint doing what obol should be doin

[mental mural]

Lily user

[indigo oyster]

guide for 36 hard

i do no dmg

[twilit vault]

i did the Diting core + Vice team (4 minute clear)

[pale jetty]

very nice! im just at that point where i need to progress and get the shells in hoyan and i dont have purples for old boy

[indigo oyster]

and just focus febian?

[pale jetty]

so i went the cachi route since its cheap

also double cd down on diting is niiice

[twilit vault]

twin trick Vice at the start, focus on killing the buffer mobs fast so they dont put DEF buff on the boss

[left snow]

btw where is this gif from ?

[twilit vault]

the twin tricks after that go to Diting, kill all the other mobs to lower Phoebe's damage reduction down to 0

[left snow]

movie or whatever it is

[twilit vault]

shoot Phoebe until she spawns the next wave of chess pieces and is at the end of the turn order

swap to Febian and finish kill

[formal snow]

Just so sad

[indigo oyster]

what if i got one shot upon switching

[scarlet quartz]

not sure

but its peak

[indigo oyster]

is it diting,lily,kloss,vice,freya/val?

[pale jetty]

i can probs increase my success rate if i made my diting slower but i dont feel like farming nico again all day

[twilit vault]

i took barely any damage at all when swapping, with Vice's attack break & Freya's DEF buff on

[scarlet quartz]

I am still missing

my white fang

for diting

im gonna lose my mind

[full delta]

50% reduction in drops

[indigo oyster]

ima try that team, i feel like my diting do close to no dmg

[twilit vault]

Phoebe/Febian keeps her position in the turn queue when swapping, so if you swap when she's at the bottom she doesn't use the AOE damage + debuff cleanse skill immediately

[pale jetty]

bruh the one it gave me got swiftraid.. its nice when i need the speed but sucks in this fight so hard

durands be tapping on my diting hard before the debuffs go out

[indigo oyster]

what about card?

[twilit vault]

no 15 % increased stats

[indigo oyster]

oki

[warped kestrel]

Max S3?

[pale jetty]

Yup maxed s3

Like the res they have must be stupid high I guess

[warped kestrel]

Mine never misses with only 205% EffAcc

Must be really lucky

[twilit vault]

oh yeah here's my total after finishing both Ember Treks

[glass ruin]

aight thanks

[left snow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RvTrT39faA

found it

had to ask chat gpt the name of the movie

[tribal osprey]

Wait, does revelation ignore bloodbath or no?

[main elm]

Kind of

It's 10% HP, it'll never trigger bloodbath 20% threshold

Bloodbath reduce per tick damage not the whole damage output of a skill I think

[tribal osprey]

Someone said it add every instance of damage

Idk if it’s true though

[pale jetty]

Must be. It doesn’t land all the time which is such pain 🥲

[latent iron]

Isn't bloodbath damage in a turn and not single instance? So once you took 20% of ur max hp it will proc

[main elm]

When I attacked something with bloodbath, I saw the bloodbath word text on every damage application I did after Rosa S3.

It's either treat every damage tick individually since I saw the message 3 times, or it reduced every instance of damage after the unit suffered 20%+ HP loss

That was against a Holden, though he got his HP reduced to 5% in 1 attack, so I'm not sure if the set is working properly, Holden should have massive amount of defense since he is a Def scaling unit

[glass ruin]

anyone here that cleared rengo inferno without kloss?

wanna find some alternative team comps

[warped kestrel]

I don't have the answer, all I can say is that as an avid rev abuser, I've never seen its damage be reduced, and it makes sense that it wouldn't, since it's true damage

[main elm]

Yeah rev shreads everything

I more or less 1 shotted a Taiamat + Viper team just because my Yeli is on rev, it's kinda stupid

[upbeat breach]

Not exactly, because you can go full speed on him for example

[main elm]

he was far from fast lol

he HAD blood bath...

[upbeat breach]

so yeah, def I guess lol

[main elm]

and u say speed....

[upbeat breach]

you can run both =p

[main elm]

u can run momentum on Lily aswell amarite

[upbeat breach]

exactly

you never know

[main elm]

nerfing Rev is a problem coz it's viability in PvE, but in PvP is also problem, the most anti cleave team u can run is Tiamat + Viper, and it's still not enough, they shouldn't get kinda wiped out by a DPS without any debuffs on them

I don't think it's that hard to minimize it's effectiveness in PVP like some other games do, but thats all up the programmers the company have if they are willing to do it or not, it's a pain to do yes that's why it's not implemented "yet"

[fluid parcel]

ofc theyre not nerfing terra inferno

still viable only forplayers that have ssania

[main elm]

it's already nerfed bro

[warped kestrel]

They can make things do different things for PvP and PvE, they'll probably nerf Rev, but they're probably just holding out until the end of season as they promised they would for nerfs

[fluid parcel]

and lets see if inferno doki is now farmable without kloss

[fluid parcel]

makes no sense since u can farm inferno only if u have ssania

[main elm]

nerfing Rev is kinda as bad of an idea as nerfing Lily, I have 3 maxed Rev, they costed me prolly ~20mil shell currency to lvl up and do all the rerolling rng bullshit, just for the devs to make them obsolete not the best choice ? rough

[main elm]

very farmable without Kloss my dude, since I don't even use her in there

[warped kestrel]

They could refund shell currency... I think E7 does that for their artifact nerfs, but I dunno *if they keep track of how much currency you throw into passives, probably not

[pale jetty]

Nah you can farm inferno without. Just take a lot of work. Ssania makes it easy for those that have her

[fluid parcel]

that shouldnt tke a lot of work tho, to reach inferno with a normal team u need to spend like 100k stability

MAYBE

menawhile people with 100k stability with shadow sania are gonna stomp u in arena just easy

[pale jetty]

true. Reason why I’ve only just used arena to game shop and bounce until I can gear up my team better. Just barely got shadow hoyan figured out

[indigo oyster]

i cant even do shadow hoyan

[marsh topaz]

mhm 20 sec inferno terror clear. yummy

[pale jetty]

I’m a lily and kloss abuser. Saw someone’s guide with og cachi and diting to clear it

[glass ruin]

tomorrow..

[indigo oyster]

still wouldnt be able to do it😂

[pale jetty]

If you have lily and kloss 👀

https://discord.com/channels/994852318904340560/1388069765515444444

[glass ruin]

what comp have u tried

[indigo oyster]

i do, i sub out cachi for obol and its...

[pale jetty]

I’d just sub him back in yo

[indigo oyster]

either my obol go b4 1 durand or he go b4 both of them after 1st stun

[indigo oyster]

cachi not built

[pale jetty]

Aaaah 🫠

[indigo oyster]

that why i use obol

is his stun a 3turn?

i forgor

[pale jetty]

It’s a one turn but

With push back

[indigo oyster]

hmmge

u want him to go first?

[left snow]

I want dokidoki

[main elm]

I want lettuce to invest on her

[left snow]

Tbh no bloodbath here unless I'm blind

[main elm]

no bb

[left snow]

Also lily is doing nothing there

Like actually a dead pick

Sania would have been a great pick

[main elm]

literally nothing else to use, I don't have some DPS that goes faster than Yeli

[left snow]

I meant your opponents lily

[main elm]

oh, prob most geared unit so just slap it in to boost viper

[left snow]

What does she even do in a tank team

[main elm]

tbh if viper goes 1st I'm cooked

[left snow]

[main elm]

well, maybe cooked since Yeli cleanse 2 debuffs so she'll remove attack down

nvm, all debuffs with lettuce

[left snow]

Yeah

[main elm]

so viper 1st won't be doing much

[left snow]

I think sania would have been a pog pick there for your opponent

Unless this is etherena

Then I am dumb

[main elm]

it is

[left snow]

Yeah just realized the background

[main elm]

obviously double Lily there my dude

[left snow]

3 am brain

[main elm]

[left snow]

Are you investing in tank team btw ?

Or gonna try Doki in sth else

[main elm]

it's very cope, shit gear, 0 lettuce

[left snow]

I also have 0 lettuce on her too broke

[main elm]

Taiamt need BB and earthplague, she doesn't do enough damage with that HP

[left snow]

Some people drop bloodbath on her later as you face less cleaves

And just run amber for self revive

[main elm]

issue with her, her best shell doesn't have HP unique set

Colossguard and swift

[left snow]

Does that have etherplague

Or swiftsmite

[main elm]

swiftsmite yeah, etherplague no

yup

it's a delimma building Tiamat

might aswell just give up on BB

or Amber

[left snow]

4 wellspring 2 bramble might be worth trying

[main elm]

Amber has no HP sets whatsoever

[left snow]

Yeah we cope with 4 3 matrix wellsprings and give up on inferno module

[main elm]

Amber on Holden is very juicy

[left snow]

Yeah it's really good

I think people run artisan cause they just have farmed a lot of them but not many ambers

Amber is toxic on Holden tho

[main elm]

Gigabite might be best shell for Tiamat, matrix wise, HP + BB + Etherplague

[left snow]

You mean cure + bb ?

[main elm]

nvm, bramble is like must get for Tiamat

demon form fucking counter

[unborn kindle]

yeli or rosa for aurora?

[main elm]

it's busted lol

[main elm]

both are very good picks

u won't go wrong with either imo

[left snow]

What's the matrixes of lighthouse

[main elm]

trash

[left snow]

Rip

[main elm]

Amber 2.0