inferno difficulty megathread, happy 100k

[loud locust]

theyre all aware and are probably monitoring now too

[hushed bone]

1 slap from terror send tou to heaven

[loud locust]

seeing f2p get some manual clears in at least within 1.5 or so days is nice though, but also indicates some ai needs to be looked at for autoing purposes potentially as well. Idk if they're developing the ai skill order change or not yet

[warped kestrel]

Thanks man, you making them aware of it is a big deal

[glacial magnet]

Just knowing that AI changes are up on the table is already great to hear. Thanks for the continued updates

[stable dagger]

this team can sustain it the issue is you gotta be fast fast

[loud locust]

yeah I feel a lot of good conversations can come from the inferno challenges everyone is facing rn

so far there have been

aside from the dooming, it brings insight into other things

[foggy echo]

It's kinda funny that my go to shielder is a shell and my go to DPS is also a shell

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-perfectlybalanced-gif-18301221

[hushed bone]

Valerian and veronica does that yeah

[loud locust]

is ur holden built much yet

[hushed bone]

Ill make 4 artisan to abuse it

[loud locust]

this is the way

ngl I have like 4 perfect unbreakable/bramble/swift artisans

[stable dagger]

his build kinda mid rn i need more speed it'll prolly solve the issue once i 6 star him

[loud locust]

honestly could be a method for me 💀

[foggy echo]

It's the play. Even on units that don't stack def it's good. My tiamat on artisan was like 10k shield

[loud locust]

i just got to hell 4 though I'm still catching up. Almost beat it but got some unlucky rng

[warped kestrel]

I've also been thinking about this - what would happen if you run full team artisans...

[loud locust]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDPnzvFKkz8

this

just shield spamming

LMFAO

mechanics seem to be working as intended though

[hollow crane]

Mam is there any use for lian, or should I reset her?

[stable dagger]

need some speed tuning since the game said it'll not stack

[loud locust]

prob better to ask in etheria only chat

or the builds channel

[stable dagger]

oh wait it does stack? lmao they prolly gonna patch this

[loud locust]

doesnt seem to stack technically

also is fangus not able to help with inferno nico or do u absolutely need ssania for it to work

idk much about fangus kit tbh

[foggy echo]

From testing artisan shields stack with my tiamat shield. But if I back to back tiamat shield coz Lily then it replaces

[coarse granite]

damn we got volkin in here now

[limber palm]

Ah dang it has been found

[coarse granite]

gz

[limber palm]

[stable dagger]

oh yeah! it just reapplies it

[coarse granite]

I appreciate everyone actually putting their opinions in here i genuinely do want good for the game at the end of the day. We needed another good pvp gacha that wasnt e7

[stable dagger]

i see so different source of shield does stack

[clever tapir]

ssania is more used compared to Fangus because its more garunteed that ssania puts 2 dots whenever its her turn and when ever twin tricked by a 100% chance lily. Fangus is only 50% to follow up atk to land 1 dot. If you can sustain much longer then maybe fangus would be viable with a obal? but not sure since i have not built an obal yet.

[foggy echo]

Not sure if say valerian shield will stack with tiamat shield though. Pretty sure 2 artisans don't stack though

[stable dagger]

yup it doesn't stack XD
for 2 Artisan they just kinda reapply their shield

[foggy echo]

Sounds right

[pure junco]

If you could build on that sequence, it'll probably be more viable going through everyone's kits carefully, if we use this method frequently

[graceful juniper]

I though you guys said you wont nerf revelation for PvE....what is this 40% chance BS?

[upbeat breach]

You need sania

[dreamy cliff]

Hold on, did they shadow nerf revelation

[upbeat breach]

Is the 40% implemented or is it a translation problem?

[graceful juniper]

So on the unit skil description it has no %chance,but if you go to buff its now has 40% chance.....now someone claim it still 100% chance to trigger,now my problem which one is the right way this shell work?

[upbeat breach]

Because this game is done if they keep pulling those idiot moves

[graceful juniper]

People claim its still trigger 100% but the problem is if the dev intention to nerf this shell by making this 40% chance then its cooked for PvE aswell

[dreamy cliff]

It seems to be working as in the description, this buff info might just be a yet to come nerf and the messed up showing it up early lol

[clever tapir]

Thats true

[arctic plover]

40% is not implemented, it was there in beta as well, the in-battle tooltip always was different from teh outside-of-battle tooltip, but people rarely clicked on it

[clever tapir]

But with bosses resisting from time to time, it just feels unreliable

[neon saffron]

nah this is insane this game is gonna eos

[upbeat breach]

Need to be really stupid to implement it like that wtf

[clever tapir]

Wasnt that always there

[graceful juniper]

Funny thing i found out this from random ass yt comment

[upbeat breach]

Thank God, because nerfing pets is even worse than nerfing units

[graceful juniper]

Pretty much i had no idea at first...since the shell description doesnt have it,problem now its got noticed

[clever tapir]

People looking for reasons to cause drama withoit the prior pics atp

[dreamy cliff]

F the drama, game is amazing

Sure some things needs a couple changes but it's the same way in any game

[clever tapir]

yeea

[graceful juniper]

The game has ass translation,like golden lion buff only trigger by auto attack but its written as skill.....so i can give them some doubt,but if this is the nerf solution then its gonna be bad

[clever tapir]

most stuff is translation errors

Chinese to english is very difficult

[stable dagger]

yep

[pure junco]

You would normally hire someone who could generally speak both languages and is familiar with various vocabulary terminology than someone who "knows enough" when we're talking localization

Even then, you're not guaranteed quality

[cerulean bison]

Guys, we need revelation shell for inferno dokidoki farm. so it is not okay to nerf it especially this week

[charred minnow]

Atp the devs should let us atleast know they're looking into this difficulty spike

[opaque flume]

It being in tooltip means devs can "critical bug fix" it at any time

[cerulean bison]

I will pick xaida from target banner if they dont nerf the shell

[clever tapir]

well if it was in the tool tip since launch day 1 then.... its fine if they do

[opaque flume]

The earlier they do it the better, the longer they wait the worse the backlash, get it over with

[graceful juniper]

Except that there is 2 tooltip. That contrast with each other...1 say 100% other say 40%,up to dev decide what to keep

[cerulean bison]

it is not okay

[clever tapir]

theres 2 rn?

hows that work

[graceful juniper]

You open the shell description,there is no 40%

[clever tapir]

ohhhh

[graceful juniper]

Its only on the buff said 40%....thats why its goes unnoticed so long if its really not changed,maybe it was their plan to change from 100 to 40,anyway i already ask so need to wait

[cerulean bison]

The x2 event is almost here. lots of us want to auto farm dokidoki. based on the current situation we can pick xaida from target banner and do the auto farm. if they nerf the shell , it means that they fucked up with target banner, auto dokidoki team etc

[clever tapir]

??

U cant autofarm with a no skill up xiadia btw

And ur modules arenr up to date

And ur shells

[cerulean bison]

lol I have 4 latices and my dot team can farm shells. modules are not good but xiada does not need much

[clever tapir]

U need 8

[cerulean bison]

oki I reset my masiah

but this is not the topic

[clever tapir]

Kinda is tho

[cerulean bison]

topic is that revelation shell cannot be nerfed this weekend

[clever tapir]

Look at thread name btw

Its not about revelation shell

Its about inferno

And they most likely wont nerf it

#announcement

[opaque flume]

"except for emergency fixes for critical bugs"

[cerulean bison]

yeah and there are almost 0 team who can auto inferno. revelation shell can help us to auto farm it. It will be especially important for this weekend, so no bug fixes

[clever tapir]

So.... basically a fk u to all non xiada havers?

[tacit spoke]

its not in need of nerf but rework, about the fact that half naked ssania comp can clear something that juiced up rosa comp cant is just ridiculous

[upbeat breach]

Half naked 5* sania with zero skill up lol

[cerulean bison]

I dont have either, I will pick it from target banner.

[clever tapir]

U need max s1 for sania

[upbeat breach]

Meanwhile a 555 rosa can't touch that boss

[charred minnow]

no need, but it's a good to have

[upbeat breach]

You don't, I am farming it

[charred minnow]

I've seen recent clears with no skilled up s1 ssania

[clever tapir]

U dont? Its inconsitent without it

[charred minnow]

probably a lot harder in terms of rng

[cerulean bison]

lily and ssania are LD s . Of course lds will be more powerful than others

[upbeat breach]

Maybe on auto, but i am running on manual and don't have many issues with it. No lily in my comp, so that is a thing

[clever tapir]

Oh to auto u need it

Cuz not enuf dots

[upbeat breach]

That is for lily comp right? I think it is ok with fangus and obol. I am only using obol at moment

[cerulean bison]

I will wait untill by saturday to pick xiada, finger crossed they wont nerf the shell

[clever tapir]

Im thinking about building obal how is he

[upbeat breach]

The rng part is a pain in the ass, but he is amazing at controlling adds

[glacial magnet]

Dont worry, they wont. XD staff in this thread reassured already. Though they are still monitoring it for PvP

[clever tapir]

Ooo would help auto shell nico and sharon then

Cuz the ads are the main trouble

[upbeat breach]

100%, but i think Sharon is immune to dots. Ln the other hand it is amazing for hoyan boss, just need to make him go first

[clever tapir]

Oh i mean hoyan

Mb

[upbeat breach]

I also run codex in my whole team

[clever tapir]

Codex?

U dont need any survivablity shells?

[upbeat breach]

The dragon to reset cd

[clever tapir]

Like artisan

[upbeat breach]

I am mostly farming nico, so not for now

[clever tapir]

I see

[upbeat breach]

Need to see what I need to change to farm hoyan

No lily is a pain

[clever tapir]

I can only manual hoyan rn

The ads need to be cced by kaz

[upbeat breach]

Can use obol for that job too, but you get the atk down from using her

[clever tapir]

Yea

Imma try obal

With the 2x gp event

Shouldnt take too long to build

[upbeat breach]

I only did 2 skill ups on him to increase the dot chance

Otherwise he is naked 🤣

Need the skill ups to bulk up a bit

[clever tapir]

I see

[glacial magnet]

Sharon isnt immune to DoT

Only the tooltip says so

[upbeat breach]

So the only pet boss that is immune is the last one?

[clever tapir]

Isnt she immune

No dot team beat her

[arctic plover]

Dear hyperlinkers, we have fixed a critical bug of players being able to farm inferno.

[clever tapir]

Ngl they should give us a rgb selector 👍

[glacial magnet]

Diting is just faster

so she doesnt show

[clever tapir]

Inferno one i mean

[glacial magnet]

Inferno yeah she's immune

[finite palm]

Pretty sure she is supposed to be and that there's a bug that lets people use dots on her

[finite palm]

Then don't be surprised if they bugfix her so she doesn't take dot damage

[real trellis]

do you know which staff member said it? trying to find the message

[clever tapir]

They created the thread...

[glacial magnet]

Christian Blair, he's in this thread

[real trellis]

community manager

[tardy blade]

at this point i think the dot inmunity was intended only for inferno stage but text leaked on the other diffs

[charred minnow]

Immuney is funny

lmfao

[tardy blade]

i see no reason for them to make sharon harder when inferno is already one not many people can clear

[upbeat breach]

So he is immune to dot and turn meter control? How are we supposed to kill him

[charred minnow]

is he immune to dot?

I'm close to lv55 so will go in the fight once I can

[upbeat breach]

Yes

From what i was told, dot doesn't work on him

[clever tapir]

it say sturn meter effects

not dots tho

[upbeat breach]

Yep, it is full cancer

[charred minnow]

how hard is it for them to add it properly in the description

I mean come on

[stable dagger]

can we even sustain that dude?

[charred minnow]

nobody would care if it would be shown properly ;-;

the real question is can we sustain XD's fucking mess

lemme see if I can cook up a team

[clever tapir]

nah we auto die

600% dmg to a single target

sheesh

[stable dagger]

devs loves torturing us huh

[clever tapir]

will this even be doable

O.o

[graceful juniper]

Aint no way....how tf do i kill him

[clever tapir]

cant use same affinity teams either

[stable dagger]

how fat is his HP?

[charred minnow]

not that fat

my diting dmg is kind of equal to him at Hell

[stable dagger]

alright looks beatable

[charred minnow]

so from what I see

using Lingluo as sustain can be dangerous esp using the lily boost trick

you can still use steal turn meter to slow down the adds and speed up your own team

[stable dagger]

we will prolly need some booster and giga buffer and snipe him

[clever tapir]

Cant you use revelation shells

If dot dont work

Revelation freya, kazuyo

[charred minnow]

what build does freya need

for revelation?

full dps atk build?

[clever tapir]

Throw crit onto her 2 crit 1 atk%

On right side

[charred minnow]

crit as in crit rate right

[clever tapir]

Ye

It only procs on crit

[charred minnow]

this fine?

[arctic plover]

should be fien

[arctic plover]

she doesn't need critdamage though

yeah

[stable dagger]

now you just need to be fast

[charred minnow]

just have lily

[arctic plover]

it's too slow though

[charred minnow]

why be fast if you can run with lily

[arctic plover]

if it's in dokidoki 85 critrate is sufficient, as she is green

[charred minnow]

so that was way less than my diting

oh he also changes affinity

he was red in that fight

[ruby canyon]

what about void, does law of silence work? cause you get void every 4 turns and he hits you every 4th?

[charred minnow]

@clever tapir does defbreak matter on revelation?

[clever tapir]

Nah

Its tru dmg

[clever tapir]

Thats why bruisers get metled in rta

[charred minnow]

1x Diting E

[stable dagger]

tickle

[finite palm]

Is this for revelation support? That atk is way too low, the strat is to stack atk to raise the cap on the true damage

[charred minnow]

ok but how do I get enough crit rate AND atk bonus

instead of just pointing out, tell me the numbers to hit ;-;

[finite palm]

Crit rate buff else it's hard

[stable dagger]

iirc you just need 2k atk right?

[arctic plover]

what does it mean "you need", does having 1999 attack crash the game?

You give her as much attack as you can and she contributes

[stable dagger]

i see

[charred minnow]

I think a more tanky/sustain comp will work fine for inferno rengokutsu

[stable dagger]

i just remember someone saying you just need 2k

so I'm asking

[arctic plover]

if you can get 2.5 great, if it's 1500 that's fine too.

you should still have speed as your prio since she is supposed to move before kazuyo who should move befoe your dps and be as fast as possible for kazuyo to cycle for the wave 2

170 speed is too low

[charred minnow]

he changes affinity every time he uses this, so having 4 different affinities should be save as the more of the same you have the more dmg he will do in total

steal turn meter doesn't work but SPD- debuff does work

Tiamat for Odd, Holden for Reason, Rahu for Hollow, Valerian for Constant? or maybe Lingluo for Odd to have more sustain

[arctic plover]

don't think valerian will outsustain as you've picked slow units

lingluo might work though

[charred minnow]

could also swap Rahu for Hoyan

as Hoyan has innate cheat death

[stable dagger]

i tried Valerian her sustain ain't enough imma do some tweaking on the build

[charred minnow]

I think Tiamat could shine here

and then use Mia as healer instead

[arctic plover]

do you want to build effacc on her

[charred minnow]

nvm

Tiamat losing 30% hp for a taunt

to tank 600% dmg hits is crazy

[stable dagger]

you could try using lighthouse

[limber palm]

Wait where is this from? Hell/Inferno? I checked yesterday and he was not supposed to be immune, unless this is another screenshot from beta

[charred minnow]

this is from Inferno

it doesn't show here

it doesn't show on the skills either on that page

but it shows in boss mechanics when entering the fight

Shadowflame durand also wrong info in Durand - Vicious Drain

Evil Fire is from Rengokutsu, they apply 1 stack of Heart Devourer not Evil Fire

;-;

[surreal bobcat]

i feel like the ideal team to beat this would be a fast cc, an insane diting, a freya/debuffer and a lilly.

i feel like this boss kinda has the same issue as hoyan where the side ads are crazy tanky so cc is the only real way to do it.

Alternatively you can try and buff extend and abuse massiah in invincibility state

[charred minnow]

diting and lily together wouldn't work well

as the passive of one of the skills says when 4 attacks from the same affinity happen boss wil gain turn and do 600% dmg hits on units sharing that affinity

[surreal bobcat]

if no lilly then a freya or chiaki the echo

[charred minnow]

this dmg was with Diting + Revelation + Def break, only missing atk+

but you can calc the dmg of the atk+

[surreal bobcat]

ive done similar dmg

[charred minnow]

what do they mean with if this effect triggers a CRIT?

this could be a f2p lily replacement

[upbeat breach]

Cant really have two of the same element there. Not sure lily would be that great either since she will just speed up the 4 turns

[charred minnow]

lv5 a CRIT effect = gain turn

[arctic plover]

you need to build crit on her, that buff can crit

[charred minnow]

ewww

[upbeat breach]

Dorothy was actually used a lot in rta

[charred minnow]

still it seems like a budget lily

[upbeat breach]

She is a pain in the ass with veronika

[charred minnow]

S1 also turnmeter+ only downside is it's random

[soft finch]

Is there an alternative for S Sania / Lily for inferno ? ( for someone who doesn't have either of those )

[surreal bobcat]

for niconana, i have seen heinreich+diting setups and rosa+viper. Not sure on consistency, if you check pins there maybe some team comps there

[arctic plover]

the most practical alternative is complaining in discord until it gets fixed.

Has the highest chance of actually letting you clear.

[surreal bobcat]

for sharon inferno on eu its heavy rng reliant on cachi the guard immunity and diting

[loud locust]

https://youtu.be/auP_p_Ri_bE?si=KZwik9TA-RisPOSt

[charred minnow]

@loud locust where do I add these kind of issues? Or will you relay this info

[lost arrow]

I don’t get why people are complaining about inferno difficulty, obv the gap between hell 4 and inferno is huge and you need specific ld characters and the one who are farming become stronger in pvp but the game doesn’t have 2 weeks yet and all want to clear everything without trouble, new characters need to be a replacement for this ld specific roles or they don’t have hype and why pulling for them? Also the people who are pushing pvp are gonna match with each other, plus this are gacha games are gambling you can’t expect to pull everything you want

[upbeat breach]

You literally said there reason, you need specific ld characters lol

[abstract pier]

DokiDoki is just as bad, there is like 2 dps (one of them is LD Massiah) that can clear it.

The bigger issue is the stacking mechanics, you are forced to have fast clears or you get reckt,and if you don't have one of the 2 DPS, well gg.

People should be able to build slow teams, and move towards faster clears with better gear/shells

[arctic plover]

this is mostly pronounced with shells, not threshold

[upbeat breach]

I think you can do with massiah, rosa, xiada or rilmocha, but the annoying part is that we cant farm the shells to make it a smoother transition

but yeah, there are are a lot of RNG in doki if you are not doing ultra fast clears

[tacit spoke]

so u either pull out ssania, give her 2 lattices and brainlessly kill the boss or you pull out Mio, give her over 10 lattices and 6 stars, Kloss 6 stars with 2 lattices, 6 star Rosa with 8 lattices... like do you see the difference? the joke in all this at least?

[amber burrow]

Don’t forget that the gear is already 3 pieces lol

[lost arrow]

And? Is a gacha games is a gambling is totally possible you don’t pull that and it’s fine

[upbeat breach]

You also can't fail a single 10% during the run and mio can't fail the 20%

But i think it is easier to just run dragon there, no idea why he is running the speed pet

[arctic plover]

speed pet sucks, not idea why people hyped it up as some sort of a universal pet.

As we see if you don't have a speed buff (lily mio or tsuki) your team will be bad anyway so most of the jackal's value ends up being wasted in pve.

[upbeat breach]

And the guy is already running mio, so it is even worse

[arctic plover]

with double dragon on mio and marvel and revelation on dinah it should be an ok clear, there is some damage the yt was missing

now personally for me it's w/e since most of my shells are from shadowflame hoyan and not nico, but it's nice to level artisan/gigabyte/white fang

not sure what to do with shadowflame hoyan, once my codex get maxed probably kraken on codex tsuki kloss and a dps

sounds like it will work but who knows

[upbeat breach]

I know that ling lily sania and kaz work there, but you still need both lily and sania

Otherwise it should be similar to that nice comp, except that you need someone that can CC both adds to start

[arctic plover]

yeah, you need kraken

don't think there is anyone better

issue with kazuyo is that your defbreaker/rosa/mio/marvel might wake them up, but she should work with diting

[graceful juniper]

Guys.....is this bad news? My costumer support still ask me for waiting clarification,but this Youtuber said its the final form

So the 100% is not intended for revalation?

[arctic plover]

that tooltip was bugged in the beta too, apparently ( I found somebody else's screenshot)

[charred minnow]

I've never not seen it do the true dmg

[graceful juniper]

Ah yes the aurora backtrack the boss should not br able to DoT

Now revealation actually have 40% chance to trigger

[arctic plover]

the inbattle tooltip always stated 40% (but nobody checks those) and the shell itself didn't specify 40%

no, it's still 100%

[graceful juniper]

Its doomed

[upbeat breach]

Yes, the one I saw was on manual, this is why it was working

[arctic plover]

I will try to be more clear.

1. The inbattle tooltip has been showing 40% chance to trigger today, yesterday, on live and on open beta

2. It has always contradicted what the shell itself says (maybe it's a remnant from the past betas, maybe it was not intended to be 100% who knows)

3. The chance to proc is still 100%.

Nothing was changed yet.

[upbeat breach]

Just dont trust youtubers

[arctic plover]

I think it's unfair to be angry at a youtuber who has read the ingame tooltip and trusted it.

[graceful juniper]

I mean sure....im still waitinf anyway

Maybe they still deciding

Or it just PR reply

[upbeat breach]

Problem is the guy saying that the devs verified the 40% and that it is how it should work

[abstract pier]

Critical bug fix incoming

[arctic plover]

if they give a preference to a tooltip nobody has seen to the one that is openly displayed every time you see the shell it's kind of intentionally griefing

[graceful juniper]

Hehehe

[upbeat breach]

It is not even part of the shell description, it would make no sense. The pet would also be just horrible

[white veldt]

the problem is that more time wont really fix it

you can max out your team on hell IV, and still not be able to clear Inferno if you dont have the exact right characters

the bosses are just too insanely powerful that the variety of solutions is down to 1-2

I can barely even clear doki doki 4 without having rilmocha or massiah... because my team with rosa is too slow and dies to the 200% atk boosted middle enemy

we just need less beefy enemies and slower ramp up, allow slow teams to clear even if it takes 5-10 minutes, and sure make sure you cant cheese clear with 50minute rotations- but dont punish players for not having the correct characters that can clear within 2min

whats the point of the 3 star system if taking more than 2 minutes means every enemy attack one shots a character of yours

[pure junco]

Oh well

The unbalance is very telling however

RNG is the game ladies and gentlemen

[small knot]

I think they should just remove the ramp up period

Afaik neither sw nor e7 has the ramp up

[white veldt]

also if they nerf revelation nobody but rilmocha & massiah will clear doki doki

its the only thing that makes someone like rosa or heinrich viable lmao

[small knot]

The ramp up on top of buffed stats for the bosses is such a huge wall to overcome

[pure junco]

What do you guys think they should add in?

[white veldt]

just make the bosses easier... theres no reason they should be this tanky anyway...

it does not feel good when my full built dps does like 5% damage per big attack because the boss has 20 billion HP

the only way to beat anything right now is cheese because the ramp up kills you before you can kill it, or having the exact character for affinity advantage

like god damn just let me clear dokidoki with a maxed out rosa tyvm... its not even disadvantage, its literally just not rilmocha thats the only thing im being punished for

[indigo oyster]

Gated all inferno stage behind player level 70-80above for now
then the dev can fix the inferno stage

[white veldt]

im being punished for not having the 1 exact character

when we we're given one selector and theres like 4 must pulls in this game, one of which is a disorder unit

[white veldt]

its not just inferno, hell IV is also just messed up for a lot of players

[small knot]

They should not be gating inferno behind level cap

[final solar]

They should add purgatory II, III and IV, lowering the I to beta difficulty lvl and the 4th one the actual lvl. So everyone can farm endgame gear

[small knot]

Then we wouldn’t be able to farm modules for 2x event which was the whole reason why so many people saved stabilizers

[white veldt]

I should be able to clear the next stage when using full gear from the previous stage

its that simple

but right now thats not the case if you dont have the best in slot characters to put that gear on

[arctic plover]

even if you can clear with 50 minute rotations it doesn't matter since it's unfeasible to farm it

[final solar]

Hell IV is doable without lily, ssania I've done all of them without those meta teams

[white veldt]

I should be able to clear Hell IV with gear from Hell 1-3

I should be able to clear Inferno with gear from Hell 3-4

but without the best in slot characters, you cant

[arctic plover]

fastest massiah clear on global uses revelation

[white veldt]

it should be possible to use a neutral typed dps unit to deal enough damage to clear a boss, when using the most up to date gear

[pure junco]

Hmmm. And what systems should be in place for this to work properly? Will there be pros and cons?

[indigo oyster]

so then player who don't have the needed character to clear just wont matter then?
level cap was already a thing for inferno level/every content, why not just raised it a bit more while readjusting the inferno stage
simple solution is just gated inferno for now

[white veldt]

but if a Odd characters cant clear an Odd boss with the gear from the stage before
and the only solution is to use affinity advantage
you lock people into needing very specific dps units

like I have Rosa, I have Borgne, I dont have a hollow dps for dokidoki

Its not even an affinity disadvantage, its neutral affinity, and still it isnt strong enough (with revelation on rosa even...)

affinity advantage should make it easier, not be a requirement imo. because it makes it so specific which heroes you can use

[small knot]

No just nerf the bosses so that said players without those characters can clear 😭 it’s not that hard to understand

If they gate inferno now it just sucks for everyone because then people who farmed it for the 1-2 days it was available for them are now ahead of everyone else in terms of gear

[pure junco]

I only asked because we probably should be constructive in these changes, because more structures will help the dev team

[small knot]

There doesn’t need to be any system just nerf the bosses to be more reasonable

[white veldt]

1. nerf healthpool,
2. nerf defense because doing 500 damage per hit without kloss is not fun, many of my guildmates are cucked because of no kloss, especially on stages where Dinah is type disadvantage
3. nerf ramp up on pretty much every boss to allow for slower clears still... clearing, like let us improve to clear within 2min over time but allow for 5-10min clears without every enemy attack one shotting everyone due to +300% attack bonus

[small knot]

I don’t think they need to nerf defense

Gray is still an option if you can’t use dinah

[royal furnace]

Inferno 6 ser gear has very very low chance to drop and its not that much better that you are sooo much ahead

[viscid bronze]

the problem is all stats are crazy. not only defence

[small knot]

Allowing characters to equip more sets is already strong enough

I see people with almost full 3 attribute gear on their dps

[indigo oyster]

i mean sure, but gated the level will be more easier to do for now, then they can nerf the boss.

[royal furnace]

Its just one set.. its not that much better than if you just equip 12/12

[warped dune]

Agree, here is my ftp team btw

[small knot]

Why not just nerf the bosses to their last beta numbers and then run a beta to test stat changes

[white veldt]

I dont see how gating the level would fix anything guys...

itd just make me hard stuck at lvl 70 for not having a specific character instead of hard stuck at lvl 50

it doesnt solve the actual issue of there being only 1-2 viable teams for any inferno

[small knot]

We should not be suffering because they keep making last minute changes without telling us

[indigo oyster]

what i mean is gated the stage temporary while they fix the game

like disable the gamemode to fix stuff

[small knot]

Even then you’d buy yourself a couple days at most

[indigo oyster]

instead of it being avaliable for other people to cheese

[small knot]

Whales are going to be lvl 70 in like a week or less

I don’t expect them to make changes any more meaningful than if they would just implement the nerfs now

[pure junco]

Then you should get more testimonies for this, people experiencing these frequently should be vocal if they're comfortable.

[arctic plover]

I think the beta difficulty was fine.

There is this weird idea pushed by @loud locust that it was too easy, but it is hilariously out of touch.

Let's meet Sterbby. ||https://youtu.be/RNdrrQLeCTc?t=373||

Sterbby has finishes top 10 in RTA and has spent enough money to get prowess 7 heinrich (not sure about the number but it was more than max). This includes essentially buying out the entire shop and obviously full refreshing and taking full advantage of the 2x event in beta.

Yet, mr. sterbby not only failed to clear any inferno thresholds, he also did not clear hell4 of aurora and terrormaton. And his dokidoki hell4 clear took around 5 minutes.

I think it is incredibly unreasonable to claim that the top 10 rta player is so terrible at the game that this progression is not indicative of anything.

While it's certainly true that many beta players had better progression in pve, I think expecting many players to outperform a top 10 rta whale is not sensible.

The population of people who played the beta with reset is vastly more tryhard that the population of a real game, most of the players intentionally played it to optimise their progression, and yet a lot of them had troubles in high dungeons.

It was certainly doable, but not "too easy" as some want to portray.

And now bosses have extra mechanics and significantly more HP.

For the record if mr. @loud locust claims it was too easy in beta I would dare ask them whether he personally managed to clear them in beta.

[small knot]

The thing is that it was too easy…. For the whales that is

That’s why you see some of them pushing to keep these bosses as hard as they are rn

[pure junco]

With that said, it falls back on RNG again

[arctic plover]

define "too easy" -- I gave an example of a competitive whale that made enough mistakes to fail to do it

as of right now ember trek is easier tbh

[small knot]

Idk ask the whales like that cls guy who was in here earlier

[white veldt]

can the whale content please just be end-game high ranked pvp and not pve. tyvm

shouldnt be expected of dolphins to never clear the game... even f2p should be able to clear with enough time

[small knot]

They were the ones pushing the agenda that pve was too easy in beta

[upbeat breach]

Rosa is good for hell 4, I hae zero issues there. 2min runs too

[arctic plover]

think tough anysync and ember trek is fine

[royal furnace]

And we go back to being why we expecting to clear all content less than 2 weeks

[fervent fox]

He says it was too easy bcs ppl cleared the content not using the exact solution devs had in mind. Gotta go build 4 diffent units for every dungeon = more money ig 😂

[distant wedge]

this community is doomed

[small knot]

.

[upbeat breach]

That is working for inferno?

[distant wedge]

worse than genshin

[indigo oyster]

this is with max refresh tho?

[upbeat breach]

Just hit auto and that is it?

[fervent fox]

no extremely sweaty manuel and sus af

[lilac lotus]

this is also a good idea stop the ramping and allow slow clears

[white veldt]

2 weeks of people spending 1000 gems a day for 3 days extra worth of stamina for the record

also
again
the issue is that with maxed gear you cant even clear the next difficulty

its not that people are trying to clear it with half assed characters
its that people are running full 3 pip correct substats modules and awakened shells
and still cant clear inferno

with the exception of if you have the exact combination of characters

[upbeat breach]

🤣

[white veldt]

someone whos grinded Hell IV for 10000 stamina should be able to make an attempt at inferno

[distant wedge]

look at the teams thats 2 shotting inferno terrors in beta

but yeah inferno feel way too overtuned but it is for end game

[lilac lotus]

beta was a joke and if we go back to that game will die so fast

[distant wedge]

people wanna clear it in a week of starting

why r they even expecting that

[white veldt]

the problem is that you cant beat it even if you are endgame

[small knot]

But pve isn’t the point of the game

[royal furnace]

For some ppl it is

[small knot]

The game is about the ever changing pvp world

Pve is like the tutorial to that

especially with the bosses we farm

[young zealot]

Both pvp and pve are part of the game honestly

[white veldt]

I dont get why people bring this 2 week thing up...
like people have the end game gear, thats another issue sure

but more time wont make it suddenly easier? people already have the maxed out gear from spending days just doing modules & shells every day

giving them another 5 months wont change their lineup of characters... it wont suddenly let them clear with the characters they already have

[small knot]

I can get behind there being hard modes with hard bosses like anisync and ember trek

[lilac lotus]

yes its a pvp game but if pve dosnt matter than the game will die, SW is a pvp game and 90% of the game is built around PVE Because thats what keeps players long term

[arctic plover]

nah, you play pvp so you can buy lattices from the pvp shop so you can finally clear pve

[pure junco]

PvP content is the tagline. PvE is meant for building up teams for competitions/tournaments

[small knot]

But that difficulty does not have to bleed into content very much meant for casuals to clear

[tight laurel]

Yep. People who lucked out on the right heroes are like "I can clear it lol" but just have no grasp of how screwed up balance is atm

[white veldt]

also end game is things like Ember Trek & Anisync Echoes or EtherNet Rally

[fervent fox]

many ppl have reached a point where a good roll shell (extremely rare) is the only thing that upgrades their team already. PvE Statwise its only minmaxing at this point

[white veldt]

end game shouldnt be the places where you farm for materials to beat those end game modes

[harsh ermine]

yes yes and yes, agree with this post 100%

[upbeat breach]

Because they think it is ok that people are 2 weeks in while refreshing and burning pots to be in that state, which would take 1.5 months without that

[tribal osprey]

So is revelation 100% or 40%? And could they hotfix it to the lower value?

[arctic plover]

rev is 100%

[upbeat breach]

100

[tribal osprey]

Just pull a ssania and a lily happy days

[pure junco]

farming shells must be fun when you get only one right?

[arctic plover]

they could hotfix to make it heal, they can do whatever they want

[small knot]

But you have to understand that even with all these pve gamemodes in SW there’s no insane difficulty that gates casuals in modern SW

[white veldt]

100% rn and if they nerf it itd prob be in pvp only but also people act like theres no counterplay to these squishy glass cannon freyas-
give it a week and a new meta will appear lol

[naive sluice]

Building very specific units for certain Infernos requires a huge resource investment, which takes away from your PvP teams.

The issue is the Lily / Ssania being extremely cheap and low-investment, letting those who have it pour everything into PvP instead.

[small knot]

I could clear toa in sw with reasonable gear and free to play units

[indigo oyster]

so the tooltip is just wrong?

[tribal osprey]

Wait there’s a dps freya with revelation?

[royal furnace]

Sw is 11 years old

[white veldt]

4 hits on her ult is pretty nice

[arctic plover]

when you firstpick lily, outspeed and kill them with massiah you've outdrafted them.

when they firstpick freya, have to bring a bridge and kill you it's a disgusting bug abuse.

[royal furnace]

On launch you couldnt clear toa in 30 days let alone hard

[small knot]

I don’t think the age of a game should matter because you don’t see new games following old models

[lilac lotus]

Ancient dungeons litterally do that

[royal furnace]

And ppl had 10min+ gb runs

[lilac lotus]

where you get the end game final pieces

[young zealot]

This. Upgrading gear and trying out new team comps to take a shot at inferno is way too expensive

[lilac lotus]

litterally require specific units

[indigo oyster]

but ToA is the endgame, while the content to get gear isnt hard

[small knot]

But that’s not the case now

[tight laurel]

Nobody could clear it for that long?

[white veldt]

this... like god damn people you can counterpick and ban
people lose to revelation but really what theyre losing is the speed battle
its not like their team isnt a glass cannon 1 turn win team as well lmao

[lilac lotus]

hard took almost 4 months in sw

[white veldt]

"they 1 turned me before I could 1 turn them"

like cool you tossed a coin and lost instead of playing rock paper scissors

[tight laurel]

That's the difference -- here we have some who have the right units clearing, and they're leaving everyone else behind

[lilac lotus]

also the solution was 4 sustainers and 1 dot unit

[tight laurel]

It would be fine if no one could clear, but people are clearing every day

[lilac lotus]

which is whats happening here

[naive sluice]

Exactly

[lilac lotus]

a obal and fungus team was spotted this morning clearing without SSania

[royal furnace]

If you pulled rica/verad gany you were cruising toa

If not you fked

[distant wedge]

where

[lilac lotus]

other teams are also being found out (they are pinned on this board)

[distant wedge]

ok

[white veldt]

I honestly hate that the only solution is to dot

[heavy hollow]

game is fine bc even when you can clear inferno easily nothing drops anyway so we're all on level footing

[lilac lotus]

EU, i wasnt given a screen shot but it was running tripple codex's

[royal furnace]

Yeah getting infero gear set is pain one in almost 40 runs

[lilac lotus]

agreed, there needs to be a balance where it requires 4 6 stars with decent gear, but not to the point that we return to beta

[white veldt]

[royal furnace]

And if its crap gg

[tight laurel]

The fact that you have to be this tuned into to the game, in the official discord, reading these threads and pins, just for ideas on possible ways through the PVE should be enough to understand things are not where they need to be

[heavy hollow]

can i interest anyone in 2 slot ambers

[lilac lotus]

as long as we do not go back to beta difficulty im fine with any changes

[white veldt]

this is my point and has been the entire time

if I have maxed characters, I should be able to clear without the only solution being 1 specific set of characters

[lilac lotus]

a 10% nerf great, but beta was like 1/10th of this

[royal furnace]

Well ppl have been clearing with other chars than the 2

[tight laurel]

I mean if you whale real hard, the game's going to be easy.. Setting the bar for doing the gear farming at "whales only" is not going to lead to much longevity for the game right?

[lilac lotus]

ok but we have other solutions people just ignore them, and as we build more chars and some get added other solutions will come, people have an issue right now where they dont have the chars that have been tested

[upbeat breach]

We dont really have that many solutions for most stuff...

[lilac lotus]

Because unfortunately whales cant build every char either which means we cant test for you

[heavy hollow]

go look at asia ppl legit clearing with the units the game gives you for free. dorothy is cracked.

[royal furnace]

Asia is cracked

[arctic plover]

what are you farming for? I felt like that dungeon sucks. The best one was supernova, and the dark moon for some cheeses

[tribal osprey]

Wait so people are just going for the swiftrush off modules then onslaught off the revelation?

[heavy hollow]

neither of those shells drop in hoyan

hoyan is jackal guard/revelation/law of silence/amber

[pure junco]

This is week 2

[heavy hollow]

all are usable

[lilac lotus]

its funny no one from the asia server are in here complaining, they just all playing

[arctic plover]

you can't get swiftrush on rev

[lilac lotus]

we also dont have enough chars built to try other teams

[tribal osprey]

That’s why I said off module

[distant wedge]

it hasn’t even been 2 weeks

guys

[white veldt]

in 2 weeks holden will be out of the limited banner and then we get the issue again of people not pulling holden and not being able to clear whatever content he is REQUIRED for

and this will repeat infinitely

and the pool will only grow, where we have 60 ssrs but you need 1 specific dps/support to be able to clear a specific piece of content

we need a balance where theres dozens of solutions if you have good gear, not a balance where you need 1 out of 1 characters turning into needing 1 out of 3, that wont really make it any better

[distant wedge]

who said holden be out of perma banner

💀

[white veldt]

I meant the limited banner for him-

[distant wedge]

ah

[pure junco]

Even if we did, our current options aren't that diverse since many characters just do something better or another thing slightly different

[lilac lotus]

yea this is an early game life cycle issue that is found in every game thats ever existed

[white veldt]

obviously he's in perma, but he turns into a 1/27 chance to get him so if hes required to clear something, you have a 1/27

thats the exact issue we have right now with SSania or RIlmocha

[lilac lotus]

soon a char will be released that solves all these problems

and odds are itll be an SR

and free

[distant wedge]

^

[pure junco]

Yep. That's why we wait for more characters

[white veldt]

what gacha games have you been playing because ive never seen devs that generous
Im surprised Diting is even a thing

[lilac lotus]

or just wait 2 weeks for the asians to show you a team full of R's that beat it like

[lilac lotus]

Sw litterally gives you a Hall of heroes every year with the "generally most used pve hero"

[tribal osprey]

Isn’t that a maxed out mio?

[pure junco]

That too can be a solution

[lilac lotus]

dosnt matter, the point is that other alternatives are being found without dots

[small knot]

If only mio and kloss were r

[pure junco]

RNG is the game as usual

[upbeat breach]

that is just pure coping lol

[lilac lotus]

ever game PVE gets easier and easier over time

[tribal osprey]

Nah. The ones in hoh are known to be bad. Rarely the most used gets puts there

[lilac lotus]

idk some of the most insane one like dark gunner were given in hoa

[small knot]

This is true

[indigo oyster]

ASIA-inferno-hoyan

[small knot]

Hall of heroes is mostly shit heroes

[white veldt]

even if new character comes along on a limited banner and it solves the problem for us for 2 weeks

once that banner is gone, the next wave of players will be screwed over

[small knot]

Maybe one good every couple hall of heroes

[arctic plover]

the pve gets easier when the games start bleeding players and they start adding catch-up mechanics for better onboarding

[tight laurel]

How long should we keep smashing our head against the wall in your eyes?

[tribal osprey]

Obviously a few exceptions. But will mostly never contain the good ones

[pure junco]

Well? Everything is! That's why everyone has run in circles all week

[upbeat breach]

Doesnt mean farming should be that bad. It is just gear farming, it is not tower or anything like that...

Gear/pet farming shouldnt be that horrible

[arctic plover]

letsgooo, one clear without lily

[lilac lotus]

1 month if by the 30th there arent other options or solutions we absolutely ask for a nerf

[brave ore]

The game should give us a selector for these issues so I can finish my roster

[tight laurel]

Just seems like wasting time when there's this much outcry

[lilac lotus]

if by that time we find out its because we wernt doing X or Y and its doable then we leave it the same

[tight laurel]

People will get frustrated, trash talk the game, quit, review bomb, etc

[fervent fox]

bro doesnt understand that some ppl already have maxed gear with good stats, everything else is just minmaxing at this point wont be much diffrence even in a month from now if it stays as it is

[tight laurel]

If this was ethernet rally or some tower event, sure, that's fine to be really hard for ultra end game accounts

This is the base gear farming stages we're talking about

[indigo oyster]

it is domianted my the same dot comp with variation lol
both shell and terror

[lilac lotus]

sure but this company already has a habit of over reacting (look at the lilly change, it screwed over all the Borgne arena defenses for no reason), id rather have a wait and see aproach with this company then them reacting poorly

[tight laurel]

Which lily change..?

[arctic plover]

I was ironic, guess had to add a tone indicator to make it clearer

[tribal osprey]

The one where she existed

[brave ore]

This is base gear farming stages with ABYSMAL rates we're talking about

[upbeat breach]

Wait, we wont magically get an extra 1k atk, 100% crit D and 100 speed from somewhere? 🤣

[lilac lotus]

they swapped her to target Crit rate instead of ATK%

[tight laurel]

Another problem for another thread

[pure junco]

Good question. That's why I keep saying "RNG". We're being vocal enough, all there's left is structuring everything said instead of walking in circles and arguing xD

[small knot]

Devs won’t be doing anything for at least a couple of days

[tribal osprey]

When?

[brave ore]

I dont care if I can clear it. Fix the difficulty

[lilac lotus]

the last hotfix without saying anything

[tight laurel]

It's easy to wait when you can farm the end game stuff though..

[small knot]

Rest assured c told us they would just monitor the situation before making any changes

[tribal osprey]

Tf…

[warped dune]

Just killed it with that yes, I also cleared niconana just now under 1 min with diting

[indigo oyster]

ik it was ironic, i'm just tryna add more info💀

[tight laurel]

Surely this won't escalate further and become another fiasco

[arctic plover]

you know how in some old games the hardest level is beating rats in the cellar on lvl1?

I guess that's what's the intended vibe

[tight laurel]

What are the odds of that happening again?

[lilac lotus]

I can only farm Inferno Doki, and even then its a 1/3 rate, so i agree this shit hard

I refuse to build shadow sania myself

[tribal osprey]

So they change lily’s ai?

[lilac lotus]

and have been trying to get another team to work

[tribal osprey]

[tight laurel]

I'd be more inclined to wait if I could do even that. Knowing people are farming inferno while I'm stuck in hell is real discouraging

[upbeat breach]

I have a lower win rate on manual there 🤣

[arctic plover]

I think she target's highest atk unit. If you had the atk buff expire at an improper moment it might have caused her to switch her twin trick

[tight laurel]

Yea, when was the lily change btw? I totally missed that. Was that another secret nerf?

[tribal osprey]

Thenya said she targets crit now

[pure junco]

I understand. I'm just looking at it from multiple angles 👌

[lilac lotus]

sure but the whales are already so far ahead in rewards from anysic and ember track, that the random terrible loot from Inferno isnt really the difference maker in why they are winning in arena

[upbeat breach]

I guess they changed lily to make her more stable and also better for bruiser comps?

[lilac lotus]

I have yet to even get a inferno piece from my 40 runs

its the same shit i get from Hell 4

[arctic plover]

interesting. RIP tiamat lol

[lilac lotus]

and my inferno team is just my Hell 4 team except Freya & Rilmocha are on revelation

[royal furnace]

Yes

Inf gear is nonxistant anyways

[brave ore]

you just cope on that free furyedge piece

until EoS

[royal furnace]

XD

True

[arctic plover]

isn't count better on rilm

like a lot better

[stable dagger]

has anyone tried replacing Mio with Marvel? and does it work?

[fervent fox]

yes

[brave ore]

Rev is weird with Ril. I prefer The Count

[lilac lotus]

Yea probably better but i didnt get one that i could use

[stable dagger]

Rev ain't gonna benefit Ril anyway

[lilac lotus]

so like i dont even have that option

[royal furnace]

Splash not affected by rev make it wonky af

[upbeat breach]

Just need a crit piece on tiamat, it is a lot easier now

[stable dagger]

since Ril splash damage doesn't crit

[brave ore]

i have to reroll mine

[lilac lotus]

mostly just to ensure i get the kill

but also no count :

[upbeat breach]

rev is useless on rilmocha

[royal furnace]

Farm rengo bro

What you did at 50

[lilac lotus]

saving energy for 2x weekend

so im not even playing anything but arena atm

[arctic plover]

fair. Unless you wanted a revelation kazuyo

[small knot]

I can’t even clear hoyan hell 🚶‍♂️

Much less rengoku

[stable dagger]

imagine they limit it that'll be diabolical lmao

[upbeat breach]

even better with rev kaz, imagine ulting 2 turns in a row with rev

[stable dagger]

it'll cause an outrage

[arctic plover]

actually true

[tight laurel]

So odds are good they do huh

[upbeat breach]

kaz lily double booster gg

[arctic plover]

oh are you carrying over the daily 1000

[upbeat breach]

I think I will do the same here, will just do what is needed for dailies

[lilac lotus]

yup cause i didnt trust 2 x was comming

and farmed for pvp gear

gotta keep in top 100

[upbeat breach]

Just need speed for that 🤣

[stable dagger]

they baited alot of people by not showing 2x event on the sched

[lilac lotus]

hence the inferno 😛 Doki teaqm

cant lose the top 100 spot 😦

only pride i have in my money spent

[upbeat breach]

gotta refresh until I see you now

[lilac lotus]

free lp?

my messiah has 150 res so good luck 😛

[upbeat breach]

running res on massiah and not lily?

saw some people going full speed on lily with high res to be super annoying

[lilac lotus]

running void

with + 60% res

then i have 30% in sub stats

he always gets 1 turn

and most teams die to it

[upbeat breach]

that does sound like a pain

running mio+freya here and just praying to outspeed

[lilac lotus]

my messiahs stats

[upbeat breach]

I was hoping they would nerf inferno a bit before the 2x but at this point I doubt it. This 2x will be a bith

[lilac lotus]

just go xp

i will be sinking everything into getting every SSR to 5 star maxed, and a few into 6star maxed

[upbeat breach]

I will do that too, exp/gp and a bit of module farming

[lilac lotus]

maybe sunday ill do module but all sat will be xp

[small knot]

Atp xp seems much more valuable given that inferno drop rates are still shit and it’s not consistent vs xp 🚶‍♂️

[glass vale]

I kind of feel skill mats is the play tbh. Levels don't really give you a lot of stats and you can gain them passively

[small knot]

It’ll still allow you to build more niche units and experiment which seems to be what the devs want us to do 😔

We won’t need that much skill mats until we figure out what can work and what doesn’t

[glass vale]

Right but my Messiah clears the last level of the skill mat dungeons on his own. So I can slot him and 3 people I want to level up aswell.

[small knot]

Well good for you 😒 I don’t have massiah

[glass vale]

"Strong Carry DPS" then

[small knot]

I don’t think my diting would clear either

And from my experience my rilmocha definitely can’t solo clear

And khloros I guarantee isn’t solo clearing

That’s all my best dps characters

[surreal bobcat]

there are 3-4 dps, massiah, doki, xiada are the core 3. I have also seen tiamat clears

[surreal bobcat]

there is alot of rng regardless of fast clears or not. Kazuyo missing sleep, ai targeting etc

[small knot]

I think volkin was clearing with tiamat

[wicked compass]

is this the lilyless thread?

[small knot]

But on manual

[wicked compass]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1297147511261102090/1384205316375449691/attachment.gif

[small knot]

Cus tiamat auto ai didn’t work well

[lilac lotus]

its the double drops of shadow prints im actually aiming for

and summons

[surreal bobcat]

no idea on that, i saw a few on eu

[upbeat breach]

Yep, missing sleep with 220% acc is sad

[surreal bobcat]

kazuyo may aswell just one of doki's minions

[lilac lotus]

my rilmcha can clear the xp solo'

[upbeat breach]

No idea with they added that 120% resist buff on top of everything

[wary fractal]

I got good sharon inferno team that other ppl are clearing with, but my diting doesnt have fury edge, theirs has - and im just missing that littl epush that little dmg

[surreal bobcat]

it was the same in beta

[small knot]

We were talking about skill mats

My rilmocha can clear xp too

[upbeat breach]

Yes, but that was without the boost to everything else

[surreal bobcat]

the cachi team?

[wary fractal]

no the mia with codex

[lilac lotus]

oh ah think she can do some of them except dark and blue

[surreal bobcat]

oh? whats the full team?

[upbeat breach]

codex is the way to go to cheese all the pet bosses

[wary fractal]

its sketchy cuz once you clear the infernos once, and get the fury edge then u can clear forever

[upbeat breach]

for both dot and non dot teams

[wary fractal]

Lily Ditting Mia Val

[small knot]

Lily 🥀

[surreal bobcat]

i assume you spam s3 to clear the dots?

[distant wedge]

whats codex

[wary fractal]

yea and with heals and valeria time bought, ditting rushes her down

[small knot]

Chat I’ve done 600 standard pulls where’s my ld5 🥹

[wary fractal]

IF you got furyedge

[surreal bobcat]

thats actually a cool strat!

[distant wedge]

damnn niconana inferno

need me mio and lily pls

[lilac lotus]

as long as you have A l/d im sure there be a team possible

im pretty sure a doki doki team using codexs and fangus/obal might be doable aswell

[small knot]

Can we normalize not having ld units in clears

I don’t have a single ld5 🚶‍♂️ 90% of these clears are impossible

[surreal bobcat]

it is funny how the clears are: its ok you dont need shadow sania or lilly, just use mio 😂

[small knot]

It’s time for people to experiment with Andrew Holden fangus in terror 🔥

Who needs lily when you have double counted

Counter**

[arctic plover]

I think Diting Tsuki Kloss Marvel should clear niconana

[stable dagger]

yes just have Veronica on terror

[small knot]

I don’t have veronika

[arctic plover]

but if people got mio they won't build marvel

[stable dagger]

pull better

tho i do have a team on inferno rn

[uncut mica]

for DokiDoki inferno
The lily can be replaced with a Kazami Kazuyo with triple eHP right side at like level 45 so long s she can survive wave 1. I'm just using the Lily for the team speed up

[stable dagger]

lemme cook and I'll show it once I'm done

just need some gears

[arctic plover]

tsuki should also work, right

[uncut mica]

Yeah Tsuki works if you have her too

[stable dagger]

cuz god forbid that I can't have some speed stats on shells

[uncut mica]

Shells are bit scuffed right now too since I prioritised getting multiple copies of the shells for various purposes rather than rolling good ones

[warped kestrel]

Is this in auto?

[uncut mica]

That run was the auto run yeah. Usually I manual the second Lily turn to hit the center mob with the assist attack

turns out I don't do quite enough damage to cut a turn cycle doing that anyway

[arctic plover]

I think you can just use the targetting feature and it will work on auto

[distant wedge]

cant u prioritize it with auto tho

[uncut mica]

I can but Rilmocha scuffed gear/shell means I don't cut a turn cycle doing that rather than the side mobs

[ancient lava]

dokidoki bugged now on top, 2 mobs on right in inferno take reduced dmg from splash

[uncut mica]

some extra gear and it'll be fine

[arctic plover]

oh right, you want rilm to target a side but lily to target the center, so you can't use the targetting

[lilac lotus]

the solution to making it more consistant is freya on revelation btw, slot a atk% or two instead of hp%

[ancient lava]

Would rly like if they actually fixed problematic bugs about game like this instead of useless stuff

[lilac lotus]

and then valarian another dps instead of lilly

[uncut mica]

They weren't asleep

[ancient lava]

splash isnt affected by sleep.

[uncut mica]

It's already consistent though

[uncut mica]

It actually is though

[lilac lotus]

oh yea but i was saying for those without l/ds

[arctic plover]

and if still can't oneshot teh first wave add kazuyo on rev too

[ancient lava]

and yes mob on right was asleep

just lower health pool so it died

[lilac lotus]

na she needs codex for wave 2, so if you cant oneshot go back to hell 4 terra for better gear

[uncut mica]

my splash always does less damage on the ones not asleep

[arctic plover]

right, my bad

[ancient lava]

example

[naive sluice]

When monsters are asleep, they take 25% more damage.

[ancient lava]

yes but shouldnt be the case

since dmg boost doesnt affect splash

[uncut mica]

it's not meant to affect the splash but it does

[ancient lava]

nice so rilmocha gonna get nerfed after their "fix"

[uncut mica]

I do ~85k with Rilmocha S3 and over 100k splash

This one might be intended as it's a bonus for waking up. I reported it multiple times in the beta but nothing happenned

[torpid willow]

When are we supposed to get information about the next patch?

[clever tapir]

Whats ur gear like?

[uncut mica]

balancing patch? ~90 days
regular patch? 22nd or 23rd since the new banenrs drop on the 26th

[stable dagger]

does anyone know what's the speed requirement to get ahead of Terror in inferno

[clever tapir]

Prob 295

[stable dagger]

i still got a long way to go

[uncut mica]

Rilmocha - Count Yellow ATk%/Red crit damage/blue generic final damage. 2700 ATK 307 CD 85% CC. 197 speed. Momentum+Fury
Freya, Kloss, Kazuyo - Codex with scuffed passives. ~150-200 Eff. 270 speed Freya, 260 Kloss, 240 Kazuyo
Lily. Triple HP gear currently slower than the other three but ahead of Ril will probably slow her down for easier full auto play or swap to slow Kazami

[clever tapir]

Ty

[pure junco]

A safe bet is always 250+

[arctic plover]

when you say scuffed passives you still rolled for a purple speed, right

or do you mean you didn't even roll speed

[clever tapir]

Ur speed is crazy lol

[uncut mica]

on codex? one is purple speed (Kazuyo), one yellow (Kloss), one no speed(Freya)

nobody has the turn 1/2 eff passive 3

[clever tapir]

@uncut mica all speed gear on supports i assume?

[arctic plover]

I think lvl30 with a purple passive is on average cheaper and has more speed than maxed codex with no passive

[dusk bough]

anyone have lineup to beat shell inferno dungeons without mio, lily, shadow sania? terra and aurora too?

[uncut mica]

Yup everyone on 12 swiftrush + whatever speed subs

[clever tapir]

Ty

[pure junco]

Can't be much help, I could say build on characters that lower attack, defense and speed but eh

[arctic plover]

which one?

niconana should be doable with marvel tsuki kloss diting/rosa

[pure junco]

You could technically brute force Niconana somewhat

[dusk bough]

I don't have tsuki too

[glacial magnet]

Try checking the pins

[arctic plover]

without a spd up character or dots niconana inferno is kind of not doable

[uncut mica]

I'll be trying a Niconana team of Rin the Unbowed, Viper, Linguo, Yang after the 2x event when I can build their levels up. Should work out fine but won't be as fast as the DoT team.
Hoyan was actually designed to be dotted (Way higher def than regular bosses) so I'm ok with the f2P Obol, Fangus, Chiaki, green Sania clearing that one.
Sharon I'll be trying a sleep strategy with Kazuyo the reverie on Halloween (the mobs can still be debuffed) Diting, Sania and probably Cachi the Guard.
Rengo I haven't thought through yet

[arctic plover]

true, rin the unbowed might be the sauce

[pure junco]

Speed Tuning should be a fun little project

[frigid dune]

There is a sliiiiight problem. We don't have resources to test different strats. If we are using build that can't clear inferno but can clear Hell4 with lattice investment then we are screwed

[pure junco]

I wonder how high you can get speed stat?

[surreal bobcat]

sub stat?

its 24

[finite palm]

[dusk bough]

how about crit damage? is there a cap?

[uncut mica]

411 max possible speed for Kloss is the fastest possible speed in the game

[pure junco]

Damn

[uncut mica]

crit damage I believe is capped at a total of 100+350%

[arctic plover]

do triple matrix epic shells exist, or not?

[uncut mica]

nope. just mythics

[frigid dune]

Another point that was probably raised but I will repeat it just in case. If team with non maxed SS can clear Inferno Terror teams with maxed characters can't then people with SS have a HUGE headstart in the game, where PvP should have been priority

[arctic plover]

unfortunate

[glacial magnet]

Do you have proof of this?

[frigid dune]

No PvP - no problem, grind and this it it

[uncut mica]

they're still in the drop pool so they have something to remove when they release inferno 2 in 6 months to a year

[charred minnow]

what do you mean with SS? @frigid dune

[finite palm]

Shadow Sania

[charred minnow]

ah

[pure junco]

Unfortunately, you need RNG because it's a Gacha

[frigid dune]

I have no problems with rng if we are talking about PvE game. I thought this was PvP game, lol

It's not really interesting if people with Shadow Sania have better gear and win by default : ]

Also I don't think Shadow Sania should be nerfed, I think bosses should be nerfed so that maxed teams with non optimal gear can farm it but with longer times.

Best gear should make farm easy and fast, not make it possible.

[graceful juniper]

atleast remove those rage mechanic....its so stupid

[frigid dune]

Lowering damage from bosses could be a nice stopgap

[frigid dune]

Or make it later

Make it possible to have long grind that slowly progresses into fast and easy one.

[graceful juniper]

like for real i cant kill aurora hell 3 because the boss has rage mechanic,my team just got 1 shot after like 5 boss turn or smth

[winter hornet]

They better sell us a solution on their next ld banner to fix this 🙂

[upbeat breach]

hell aurora is not hard at all

Problem is usually the jump between hell 3 to 4 (feasible) and from hell 4 to inferno (a lot worse)

[frigid dune]

Unironically I would be fine with that, lol

[topaz nimbus]

Or at least give a Lily banner so then everyone can have her 🥲

[stable dagger]

btw for Hoyan you can use Celin she'll disable her passive just adding this for more info

[winter hornet]

lol same 😄 maybe some gold dps buff that enables hp% damage :))

[winter hornet]

this is their last resort when the game is close to EOS next month 😀

(JOKE)

[uncut mica]

Yeah it's very nice if you have her. She should also disable Rengo's passive hell fire thing too

[charred minnow]

instead of a debuff called DoT a new unit will do debuff Poison 8% max HP dmg

[winter hornet]

Bleed: 69% max hp per stack

[frigid dune]

BTW, making DOTs deal damage based on targets HP and not on characters ability is such a bad design decision. : ] It basicaly makes gear kinda useless for those characters. They either should have severe problems with applying making three maxed effect acc items needed. But that too is kinda... bad. Cause you have no decisions on how to build the character, so...

DOTs should have been based on attack and should have been stackable. Then they can be used as sort of anti high defense tool.

[tight laurel]

Yea, it's a really bad design someone came up with long ago and it still gets included in games despite it causing problems again and again

[arctic plover]

maybe it should have been working same way revelation does.

hp% damage but capped based on your attack so you would build atk% and no crit on dot characters

[distant wedge]

Don't worry guys, next SSR/Apex will do 10 multi hit to abuse revelation and clear Inferno.

[graceful juniper]

Based on attack? Bruh to even land dot you need effect accuracy,where else they need to invest on attack piece? And even attack has limit

[arctic plover]

SSSR

[white veldt]

but... but they do have problems with applying them...

you do build effect acc on ssania and fangus

whos out here running 0% acc fangus lmao

[ruby canyon]

literally how it works in most games, you need atk and eff hit on dot characters and atk/crit stats on other characters

[white veldt]

I do agree that dot is toxic tho, and it should just stack and deal damage based on that instead of go sideways to give the boss 20 dot triggers when he makes a move, and limit it by hp/atk yeah

[graceful juniper]

What? No....all poison effect on other game is flat %max hp no atk limit bs,at that point just use attack as reference instead of max hp limited by atk%

[frigid dune]

Where?

[arctic plover]

depends on a game, they often have different types of dots

[ruby canyon]

only game i can think of is epic seven where poison isn't limited by atk

[graceful juniper]

Wtf you mean where.....e7 has poison/burn/bomb

[arctic plover]

i.e. epic 7 has
poison == max hp based
attack = atk% of the unit based
bleed = shit so I don't even know how it works (||works the same way as burn, I am just joking||)

[graceful juniper]

Oh yea bleed too

[frigid dune]

Only one game... That has questionable balance : ]

[ruby canyon]

dot/revelation wouldn't be the problem if boss hp and defense weren't so high

[frigid dune]

This : ]

[graceful juniper]

Rather than complaining poison is OP maybe start complain about the boss has too much hp that 100k crit dmg is. Only 10% of their hp

[ruby canyon]

well that was my complaint in the first place?

[frigid dune]

Yeah, they buffed bosses without considering overall picture : ]

[graceful juniper]

See? This guy get it,you guys complaining not because dot is op but boss has too much hp

[frigid dune]

Like we discussed it already : ]

[ruby canyon]

like imagine without diting ever getting through those hp bars as f2p/low spender

now combine that with the amount of dmg and soft enrages bosses have

[arctic plover]

yeah, imo it's not that sania is op.

But rather all enemies got overtuned since beta, and conventional teams can't kill them while sania's damage remains unchanged.

In beta the strength of conventional teams and dots was about the same.

[graceful juniper]

Yea but your solution is nerfing DoT(which not the main problem) instead you guys should ask them to lower boss hp

[frigid dune]

No one asks to nerf SS, lol. SS is queen cause she doesnt need gear to kill this overtuned meat shields...

[frigid dune]

Did you read what I wrote several messages before?

[ruby canyon]

there's hundreds if not thousands of whales who've spent 100x what I have yet only 2 have beaten aurora?? in like 3 days, with max dupes + max lattice + crazy gear

[graceful juniper]

All i read is this....your solution is to limit DoT with attack cap which is sound stupid

[ruby canyon]

no it's a good option for design space and dealing with inflated hp bars, not really stupid when tons of games do it

[graceful juniper]

Why would people bother to use DoT that limited by attack

When you can def break into crit dmg nuke

[frigid dune]

You should have read more.

I said that tying dots to enemies is in general pretty stupid idea in game design. It leads to several hard to solve problems. : ]

[frigid dune]

If you create high def bosses with low attack then only stackable dots can kill it. Its kinda classical game design problem. : ]

[graceful juniper]

Yea so now you invalidating defense break? Is that how it goes? And dont forget some unit have innate defense ignore like messiah

So what now? Why would i go DoT unit if i have messiah

[frigid dune]

Now you have two options about how to solve the problem : ]

[ruby canyon]

revelation is atk capped and it's still really good?

[frigid dune]

Insted of one! : ]

Can you imagine?!

[trim fox]

Just turn inferno more easy that is the better and simple solution. I don't know why Xd is try kill game turn inferno practically unkillable.

[graceful juniper]

Or maybe you just lower boss hp and now direct dmg and DoT doesnt sound absurd anymore?

Can you imagine?

[frigid dune]

I can. And you clearly are too lazy to scroll up and see that I already stated that.

[warped kestrel]

There's no point in nerfing dot when it's only good for PvE*, PvE difficulty should be lowered to a point where everyone can do it about as easily as if they had dot. This game's main feature is the PvP, most of us aren't here to be manualing repetitive PvE content for hours.

[graceful juniper]

You asking nefing DoT is nerfing not only shadow sania. But all character that rely on it

[trim fox]

also it is a farm dg, why this is so difficult. It is pointless.

[graceful juniper]

Im never talking about shadow sania nerf....im asking your stupid solution by nerfing DoT(the mechanic) not ssania it self

[frigid dune]

Where did I ask to nerf dot for gods sake?

As someone that worked in gamedev for 15 years I have seen a lot of teams struggling to balance game design that uses DOTs like the game has. And stated that this is bad design decision in general. : ]

[distant wedge]

wanna nerf dot because no ssania…

[empty marlin]

nerfing boss health indirectly nerfs dot since its percent based. it's still the best solution because you can't have a game where dot doing 4% is like 2-3x how much damage a non dot unit can do on their ult

[frozen stone]

I love diversity 💕

One lily with no skin and the other with skin

[frigid dune]

I didn't ask for nerf, I asked for a different mechanic if anything. : ]

[graceful juniper]

WTF is this.....you ask DoT limited by atk is mean you asking DoT to be nerfed,How much attack you think you can get+adding those status acc?

[frozen stone]

Surely majority of the playerbase have lily and shadow Saina to clear dungeons for gears and shills 💕

[distant wedge]

basing dot on atk is rly bad lol

[frigid dune]

It's easily balanced to make DOT useful. And it won't affect other teams when balanced right. : ]

[distant wedge]

ur basically killing a mechanic

[graceful juniper]

If you talking about easy balance than just nerf boss hp not the DoT mechanic again make me repeat this twice

[distant wedge]

they should just raise the lvl cap to unlock inferno f

[ruby canyon]

boss is immune to debuffs so dots don't work, kloss doesn't work, dps check is really high

[ancient lava]

Dot is fine it shouldnt be nerfed. Inferno dif itself should be nerfed to not invalidate everything else compared to dot.

[ruby canyon]

if you don't kill sharon <1:45 you die

[warped kestrel]

It's too late, there are already people with inferno gear and inferno shells, it's too late for anything that is not a massive difficulty nerf on the inferno dungeons to happen

[graceful juniper]

Why would i go for DoT that based on attack ( where probably 1 DoT tick is 6k dmg) when the boss has 500k hp, while i can deal 100k just by defense break and crit dmg gear

This asking for DoT nerf is insane,just spouting non-sense

[charred minnow]

tbf if inferno diff getting nerfed, DoT would still be the same amount of time

4% max hp dmg won't change the speed, will stay the same

[ancient lava]

^

Which is fine

[frozen stone]

Yeah, and those people will use their Inferno gears and Shills to clear it with other characters, then post a screenshot that ends up getting pinned here.

[graceful juniper]

Yea doesnt matter how much hp the boss has...dot speed will be the same,the onr affected is the crit dmg dps

[ruby canyon]

fact is DoT was already BiS in beta for terror,aurora,shells, clearing everything in sub40 sec, but when they doubled boss hp and defense since then it just makes the rest even worse comparably and even unplayable for most people especially f2ps

[charred minnow]

yeah so it would be better if someone has a strong team and can clear fast

[frigid dune]

Cause it's fun. You are arguing with person who started with the fact that simple solution would be to nerf bosses. : ]

Then I stated that DOTs mechaninc here (and in E7) is kinda bad, cause all DOT characters are tied to overall difficulty. : ] And then you started telling me that I ask to nerf dots, lol. : ]

[charred minnow]

while DoT team is easier to build, but takes longer to kill

is a fair tradeoff

[graceful juniper]

You dont think putting cap on DoT with attack is not nerf?

[ancient lava]

Dot should be solution to chesse it with lower gear req not be the only way to clear stuff to begin with

[warped kestrel]

DoT is % enemy HP in most games that have DoT, but it doesn't really matter if it's bad design or not - it already allowed people to get Inferno gear with ease while everyone else is just sitting on their hand unable to progress, changing DoT won't solve the problem now

[frigid dune]

What games? I play games for like 20 years, I think. Can't remember much, to be honest. : ]

[warped kestrel]

Summoners War, for example

[arctic plover]

putting a cap on dot with attack is a nerf, but I didn't intend it to be a solution to the problem at hand.

It was just a random design musing -- if dot was capped then the discrepancy didn't exist and noone would be able to clear at all. I guess I should have been more clear.

[frozen stone]

I know but the thing is they all use lily and or shadow Saina. Which is funny to see

[trim fox]

fuking the dot team man. Stop with that, focus on make inferno less difficult and everyone is happy. Arguing about dot team is pointless.

[warped kestrel]

You will be hard pressed to find a game like HSR where DoT works with ATK or something that's not enemy % HP

[ruby canyon]

I mean they'll have to adjust ssania/dots in some way anyway or make future bosses immune because it's not possible to make a challenging boss otw, it limits design space so much

[frigid dune]

Of course not. Nerf would be making putting attack cap at really small number. : ] I didn't advocate for that.

[arctic plover]

imo the real solution is making all those dungeons less overtuned

[warped kestrel]

And not just a bit less overtuned, a LOT less

[abstract pier]

all those end game bosses are badly designed. The fact that you can't do slow clears because of the stackibg mechanic is just wild. You are supposed to do super fast clears from the get go

[frigid dune]

HSR is a relativly new game. And just one of the thousand gacha games there are.

[graceful juniper]

So how much you think appropiate for 1 dot debuff dmg dealt? And how much attack it need?

[warped dune]

I dont and still cleared almost every inferno

[distant wedge]

4% of animus atk pls

[warped kestrel]

Again, SW, E7, and virtually all games I've played that have DoT has it as a % enemy HP damage

Again, it doesn't even matter whether DoT is bad design or not at this point, it was already abused

The only way to level the playing field now is to nerf the inferno dungeons, which should have been done from the beginning anyway, because they're unreasonably hard

[ruby canyon]

kiris in e7 can't apply so many dots that the boss dies in 28 sec, also she's a 3* RGB not LD SSR?

how are these situations remotely comparable

[frigid dune]

I would change the mechanic in general. I like dots as stacking mechanism that works great against long high def bosses but bad against short high damage ones, for example.

I prefer games where bosses have different gimmicks that require different teams and solutions. And ideally when one gimmick has at least two ways to solve it. : ]

[open fable]

Terror is 267 to270 to out speed main body

Doki is 290

[distant wedge]

correct?

[ruby canyon]

Doki is very off

[distant wedge]

i see

[ruby canyon]

290 sounds about right

[open fable]

My Mio is 291 and barely outspeeds

Holden 267 or something I forgot outspeeds the main body

[distant wedge]

wdafak

291

[graceful juniper]

Ah yes then lets talk when you launch your game again thank you....you talking about high def boss but reality we have defense break debuff.

And if we goes on with your suggestion then they need to reconfigure all stats of all enemies unless they want DoT unit to be ass since why bother choose DoT limited by atk?

All current enemies can be def broken anyway...might aswell try those dps crit dmg

Its much easier to nerf boss hp at that point

[open fable]

Wait till I get to clear the dumb Doki inferno

Still can't clear it kekw

[ancient lava]

@open fable doki is 280

281 speed plays 1st

[distant wedge]

i see

hey uh, all shells and modules inferno difficulties were increased after beta?

[warped kestrel]

Drastically so

[distant wedge]

even shell dungeon?

[ancient lava]

Ye terror got 50k hp and unknown amount of def/speed/atk. Dokidoki has at least 50% eff res more so prob around 170-180 eff res on enemies atm. Shell bosses dmg increased.

Dmg hp def also increased on doki

[distant wedge]

hmmmmmm

[ruby canyon]

I also don't think lily should be necessary. Not saying she necessarily is, but the tuning is so high that almost all first clears will be using her because she is the best amplifier support currently. Ideally an SR team with diting dinah chiakiecho healer should be able to clear most things, these are farm dungeons not challenge bosses (ember trek + asynthic echoes are the challenge modes)

[warped kestrel]

Indeed, the challenging content should be the weekly-monthly resetting content that gives currencies and such, not the basic equipment dungeons that everyone needs to grind to even have the slightest fighting chance in PvP

Basically, hard PvE content should be optional in a PvP game - Inferno is not optional

[abstract pier]

dot teams are perfect solution for f2p players. They just need to make it accessible via other characters. not locked with an ld SSR

SW literally you a 5* (SSR) dot chracter at the start to build your gear farm team.

[abstract pier]

only whales do the fast clears with DPS

[upbeat breach]

Nah, you shouldnt be able to clear things with a diting dinah chiaki team at all, that makes no sense

[ruby canyon]

shell bosses? why not

[upbeat breach]

For nico it should be mandatory to have speed up + speed down, for hoyan a way to CC adds and etc, it makes no sense if a single comp can do everything

[upbeat breach]

Would be just horrible mechanic

[ruby canyon]

I meaan yes ofc mechanics you should do

[open fable]

benchmark was wrong

[ruby canyon]

you can already do mechanics with SR units, viper for nico+aurora

[open fable]

287

[arctic plover]

it might have been a beta benchmark

[ruby canyon]

I'm talking dps and sustain checks

[open fable]

cant test 286 :

[distant wedge]

https://tenor.com/view/smg4-smg4skill-issue-skill-issue-smg4mario-smg4skill-gif-26104493

[uncut mica]

I ahd it pegged at somewhere between 285 and 290 for the mobs based on my own turn bar % compared to them at first doki move since she's the fastest

If you click the buff icon you can view the current turn bar %s for both you an enemies though you'll have to slow it down to 1x speed watching a replay

[open fable]

more like the game is is e7 the substat speed i added a -1speed piece on her and she is still 287

[distant wedge]

bruh

[open fable]

i mean there is hidden percentages in rolling subs like 1.2-1.6 etc

[upbeat breach]

because of the % based bonus

[open fable]

perhaps

idk

[arctic plover]

I think the speed is displayed rounded.

and the set bonus from swiftrush makes it noninteger

[distant wedge]

tf

fffffking this game man

[open fable]

im not doing inferno till i can 1shot it anyway

was close

nut no cigar

but*

[uncut mica]

mob HP for wave 1 is ~80k IIRC

wave 2 is the same for the side mobs and middle mob ~150k

[open fable]

im surprised there is no CC or someone testing out the stats for this game