Please fix the incredibly broken Revelation spam, this is gonna take over pvp soon, please nerf

[fiery tree]

As a tank down player the average set up is like 40-60k hp

On everyone

[calm ocean]

bc lighthouse counters it hard and msot ppl dont rly run those bc rengo is to hard. Also you can actually counter it with more than the shell. Speed works too.

[trim yarrow]

I don't need to see more than his base speed to know that it shouldnt be playable with rev

[stoic stirrup]

I doubt they are nerfing it. Honestly lost any respect for them when the first question they asked was "what do you guys think of the new units"

[tulip wave]

Lighthouse counter it yeah and not really when they running obol and kazuyo

[stoic stirrup]

It did make me laugh tho

[hollow citrus]

True, I was just looking at it vs all the avg units so it's not so oppressive in all match ups. Don't have a high tier bruiser comp to know what HPs look like, but I'd doubt there's 4 units with 50k HP, but could be possible

[fiery tree]

My units are all 50k+

Or 40k with 2.5k def

[tulip wave]

They had to nerf it the very first day the thread start they are just pussies

[hollow citrus]

Every match, pretty much regardless of drafts and bans? Or "my ideal team hits 50k+ each"

[twilit oxide]

Well considering my diting is 20k on a full attack build then a tank team should easily build 50k on full hp

[fiery tree]

Yes every unit

[tulip wave]

What about rahu and holden 😔 ✌️

[fiery tree]

Fuqiu is also insane for bruisers now

So once that gets more included in meta it'll be fun

[calm ocean]

bruiser will be meta for a long time

[proud fox]

Ok Heinrich is literally a debuff dps though he makes crits hit harder he should be doing a lot of damage

[calm ocean]

heinrich is a dps

[tulip wave]

Indeed heinrich is fine

[fiery tree]

Heinrich is not a dps at high rank

He legit just debuffs as a speed contest

A slow Heinrich doesn't do anything

[unreal breach]

Nah tbf I had a game in t100 where a rev hein did like 40% to the non bb units and like 4-5% off second rev rotation

some builds just shouldnt be operating like that

[proud fox]

Then why are you complaining about rev Heinrich damage lmfao

[calm ocean]

hes a dps thats why his speed bonus is in s3.

[trim yarrow]

you would be surprised what a slow heinrich can do

[tulip wave]

Theres nothing wrong with playing it both ways, he is like one of the units with the highest atk in the game

[fiery tree]

Because rev makes him a DPS with so little investment

Same with Freya

[unreal breach]

Most 300+ speed rev units do practically no dmg when rev is off rotation

[proud fox]

🤡 You just said he doesn't do damage

[fiery tree]

Freya is even more insane with 4 hits and a self attack buff

[unreal breach]

and threaten 36-48% with it up

[tulip wave]

Let alone celince

[unreal breach]

not factoring bb or counters, just raw dmg being threatened

[hollow citrus]

I think most rev teams aren't counting on rev being off CD

[unreal breach]

ik its just conceptually

[hollow citrus]

It's win or lose in a turn

[fiery tree]

^

[unreal breach]

its to give it perspectgive

[trim yarrow]

obviously they kill you within their first turn 🥲

[unreal breach]

when you see the dmg without it

on the exact same build

its kinda cursed

[vital apex]

they also built in all that extra crit damage into his s3 and gave him a shitload of base atk to make him seem like a dps but is he really

[calm ocean]

heinrich gets 30% extra cri dmg for each stack of alst word which also increasse crit dmg and crit rate.

[hollow citrus]

No

[unreal breach]

rev is like a legit 12x dmg increase on most 300+ users

its kinda wild

[tulip wave]

Intended they said

[proud fox]

Heinrich can do hella damage if you build him dps without rev but rev gives you those on turns to hit hard

[unreal breach]

like rev yeli should fucking hurt, rosa, etc

but not a 330 opener

[proud fox]

He doesn't sync with rev anyway even with skillups lol

[unreal breach]

legit take a 330 rev opener, pass turn 1 and s3

the dmg diff is kinda unreal to visually see

[twilit oxide]

What if I turn my yeli into a 330 opener

[fiery tree]

Most do

[unreal breach]

you can no cap

yeli atleast makes sense

[proud fox]

Most people do lol

And same for Rosa

[unreal breach]

cause self d break and free 30cc gives leeway

also super high base atk

[tulip wave]

I mean, you can but at least yeli aint giving turn meter boost/cc

[unreal breach]

yea its pure dps which is far more intentional

[tulip wave]

And she is way slower than freya

[fiery tree]

I mean I've run gigabyte on a healer to cut people that use boosters but like speed Freya + speed yeli and then like Heinrich kills and can't be countered outside of lighthouse

[tulip wave]

And others openers

[calm ocean]

its bc they put swiftraid into it

without it they couldnt reach that much spd

[proud fox]

Are you part of the same mad guild that was in WoR or a different one

[unreal breach]

yea altho tbh swiftraid is kinda fine for pve implications, i think just the raw dmg is fucked for pvp in most scenarios

[calm ocean]

that would be the fix without pve nerf or pvp but i doubt they can jsut remove a matrix

[fiery tree]

I just joined them for etheria but they were doing E7 and solo leveling

[unreal breach]

i saw some1 propose changing the % to 6% as it halfs the cap for pvp which is still a lot of true dmg anyways tbh, but doesnt change pve at all as you never hit a pve mob for 12% regardless, but they should def just have pvp/pve disjoint

[proud fox]

Nice nice I only knew their WoR section lol

[unreal breach]

and nerf bb 2

[fiery tree]

They should but I doubt they will for a couple of years

[unreal breach]

bb is a toxic pos

[pale kettle]

I don’t really see Revelation as the problem, it’s more the combination of utility and dps. Seeing a "support" character take out 50% HP and stun the whole group is a joke

[unreal breach]

but bb isnt talked about enough cause of how necessary it is for anti rev

[tulip wave]

Indeed

[unreal breach]

if rev is nerfed and bb isnt its chalked

[calm ocean]

that will be a much worse meta

[proud fox]

They're going to be releasing 9 new shells so like

It's not a big deal lol

[calm ocean]

wasnt a beta like that? 10-15 min fights

[fiery tree]

This should be pinned

[proud fox]

New counters and new stats are gonna be here anyway

Strats*

[unreal breach]

possibly

but thatll be way down the line

i dont see new shells coming for a while

and will they actually change the meta no1 can tell

[fiery tree]

No one should be surprised when the rev massiah one shots their entire team but I could understand the confusion when a Freya does the same thing

[unreal breach]

cause rn rev and bb kind of a have a demonic chokehold on the game

[proud fox]

It's already leaked most likely coming when this RTA season ends unless they mega delay them

[calm ocean]

they nerfd Whitefang before release

[unreal breach]

thatd be interesting, didnt see those

also that 3rd one looks eerily similiar to the purple atk shell lol

doubt its in 17d tho

considering 99% of the playerbase cant even touch rengo

[proud fox]

Yeah it was probably planned for the original ending

In 2.5 months lol

[unreal breach]

yea

[vital apex]

i hit pve mobs for 12% all the time

doesn't everyone?

[unreal breach]

what mob

like filler mobs maybe

not shell dungeons etc

doki mobs possibly, that could be one case tbh

[vital apex]

yep

[unreal breach]

A pvp/pve disjoint would be ideal if they do nerf, but i just feel like they arent willing 2 for some reason

which is kinda wild

[bleak dragon]

they said dont put all your eggs in 1 basket, this man said fk that and doubled down

[proud fox]

[fiery tree]

Unless you play standard it's kinda hard to not put all your eggs into one basket

And playing standard is ROUGH if you don't have the right units or they take them

[hollow citrus]

Pretty sure those are pokemon

/s

[proud fox]

[robust fern]

Oh nice thanks man

[grand pivot]

Yeahhh those are the special training data shells they talked about it right

Definitely not completely new shells

[grand pivot]

Completely normal

[bright tapir]

yeah not overtuned at all

haters will say 'just outspeed bro'

[twilit oxide]

Is that a kloss on rev????

[hollow citrus]

Yep 😭

[vital apex]

Rev Kloss is insane

Why

[grand pivot]

12% max hp dmg is still really good

Trusttt

[winged inlet]

she won't act again anyway I guess

[bright tapir]

is your holden e5 by any chance ?

[pallid hamlet]

yes

he is my only e5 ssr

[maiden pivot]

they gonna drop 9 new shells on us this early when ppl can barely farm up what currently exists?

[twilit oxide]

Yes. Marathon remember?

[maiden pivot]

this marathon sure going fast

[twilit oxide]

It’s about to get even faster

We accelerating

[maiden pivot]

accelerating to eos

[zealous forge]

I hate revelation

freaking unfun trash

[verbal rock]

Ngl ban Tsukiyo and have a fast Lingluo on Light House (maybe strive). That team is not scary at all

[hollow citrus]

It's not that it's scary, it's that it's stupid and makes the game look goofy

[verbal rock]

The Kloss revelation absolutely goofy though

[fiery tree]

I'm 99.9% sure if they implemented ban protection across ranks revelation wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue

Like yes it's overtuned but it's way worse for casuals because they can't protect their fastest unit or a counter unit to it

[zealous forge]

nope, it's still a problem in diamond and up with ban protection in place. there is no way around it, it's just broken.

[fiery tree]

I mean im countering it

It's just like.... You need to invest so heavily into their counters

But they also need to heavily invest into their rev comps

It's a weird place to be because if the game was further along I don't think rev would be an issue but it's so early in the meta that people cannot counter it without knowledge prior

[zealous forge]

all the top rankers are pretty much rev comps. they don't even need to invest that much, just stack multiple ones on kazuyo, freya, heinrich, etc.

[fiery tree]

I'm top 5 RTA rn. Both me and bread are almost purely turn 2 comps

[zealous forge]

what's your counter for rev?

[fiery tree]

You need to either:

Cut or disrupt

And/or

Outspeed

[verbal rock]

Without it though and we'd have mass Bloodbath teams on Amber

[fiery tree]

^^^

[verbal rock]

And battles will take 10 minutes

[zealous forge]

they can nerf both

[fiery tree]

Cleave teams are needed for meta to not be stale

[zealous forge]

that's false, back and forth is the ideal

[fiery tree]

No

Cleave is ideal

Because there are counters to everything

You can counter cleave

[zealous forge]

snoozefest and oneshots are both not exciting. rotation of meta has been done in other games and etheria must carve a new path

[fiery tree]

You survive turn 1 vs revelation cleave you just win

Like most just auto conceed

[zealous forge]

like with the plain ol rotation of cleave vs bulk it becomes a boring game

[verbal rock]

You'll see Light House as a counter to it later on in Masters RTA

You ain't cleaving shit with 2 revelations

[fiery tree]

Lighthouse, amber, strive, certain characters

All are counters

[verbal rock]

Veronika and Fuqiu too

There's actually a lot of depth so far in RTA tbh

[fiery tree]

It's like how dokidoki in protect completely guts CC comps

[verbal rock]

Yup, completely screwed me a few times

[fiery tree]

if I'm completely honest I want them to change rev but not nerf it

If the rev massiah or yeli moves you should be punished

But fast af rev freya, kazuyo, hein, etc

Should not be guaranteed that amount of damage

[zealous forge]

true, I think supps are the problem esp hein

but still, I'd like a game that's neither oneshot nor 10 mins snoozefest. a back and forth would be nice

[hollow citrus]

Cleave is necessary, but having one shell to do it just makes the game look super amateur and unpolished

[fiery tree]

^

That true

[verbal rock]

The problem is

[hollow citrus]

That's my only issue with it

[verbal rock]

Any rev nerf will need a Bloodbath nerf

[fiery tree]

IMO. They need to remove swiftraid from rev

[verbal rock]

And those two nerfs will completely fuck over people's PvE teams

[fiery tree]

And let them choose what to replace it with

Or

They need to make rev damage be more attack focused than hit focused

So massiah, yeli, etc would still be good with it

But Freya and others would be worse

[zealous forge]

but they already said freya being strong with rev is intended

[fiery tree]

I disagree that it should be strong

[hollow citrus]

True devs never say stupid shit they backtrack on

[verbal rock]

Freya is a one shot wonder of Rev though, doesn't even sync with it

[hollow citrus]

It wouldn't be so bad if it was viable on one or two units

But there's like 20% of the unit pool that do 3+ hits, and this one shell would work on them all equally

[zealous forge]

so, do I just put lighthouse on everyone and avoid getting CCed?

[verbal rock]

Ngl, if they added another bruiser on Tiamat's level

Revelation gonna die off

[fiery tree]

Fuqiu has already basically done that with veronika

Usually veronika gets banned

[verbal rock]

Amber on Tiamat,.Light House on cutters (Lingluo, Fuqiu, etc)

[verbal rock]

Nah needs to actually do damage

[zealous forge]

well I don't have Tiamat so Lighthouse it is

[fiery tree]

There was a video by zwei on youtube

Showcased a guy on ladder with like 5 lighthouse users

To counter rev

[zealous forge]

neat

[fiery tree]

https://youtu.be/-OdGCWrP2TA?si=zWk1U6I5Q1vieJHg

[verbal rock]

My rev team shuddered

[hollow citrus]

RTA: rev and lighthouse all the way down

[zealous forge]

since rev teams are basically similar to pve teams, most people aren't in the lighthouse farming phase

hopefully with time they will adjust things and rev will be less oppressive

[orchid tapir]

And we dont have lot of bruiser dps....only tiamat and holden and maybe lilith

[verbal rock]

Forgot Rahu

[fiery tree]

Tiamat, Holden, rahu, Lilith, mizuki

[orchid tapir]

Yea those 4....doesnt count mizuki because she feels weak

[grand pivot]

Wouldn’t it be kinda hard to do that without introducing new matrix because swiftraid is the only inferno set with atk and rev is a dps shell

[fiery tree]

Kinda the problem

[grand pivot]

Andrew

Trust guys

[grand pivot]

[tulip wave]

This is a lie, a rev comp just needs to invest in rolling speed in the shell and the good ones need to max s1 for speed too, thats all, while a normal team requires way more invesment let alone the counters

[orchid tapir]

They need to roll speed on their gear too

[tulip wave]

Yea, like every person in this game 😭

[orchid tapir]

Yea but other comp doesnt need that much speed on all unit....the rev need it on all of rev unit you use

[tulip wave]

A control comp getting outspeed lose too

Like what's the point

A bruiser team cant speed compete

[orchid tapir]

Then its speed problem again not rev since revlation with swiftrush doesnt have bulwark

[humble fossil]

And having only 1 off piece reduces their possible speed by quite a bit compared to a normal opener with 2 off pieces

[orchid tapir]

If you pick mio then its a must ban especially since people can tell what shell you use on pick phase...and mio is fast+cc,then rev need to pick a defensive unit to counter this or ban it outright

Cant kill bruiser with just 2 rev unit,especially if they off sync with s3 cd......and if you open pick with freya rev its kinda obvious what you pick later on

[tulip wave]

I was just talking about revelation needing investment which is a lie, just think how much lattices needs that mio to work, how good the shell gotta be in comparisson to a rev one, they only need to clear one dungeon, you gotta clear them all to make your teams like is not even close the amount of invesment

And now you don't have just to build your units the way you like but also invest in counters while they just throw the same 3 if i kill i win if i don't i lose, fair amount of invesment ig

[orchid tapir]

You just need 4? The same as freya if you want to use her as revelation opener

[tulip wave]

4?

[orchid tapir]

Its the speed that matter anyway right?

Oh yea 3*

[tulip wave]

Mio needs full s1 full s2 at least, and s3 too

[tulip wave]

😭

[orchid tapir]

Why s2 too....isnt you just win after first cc? You just wiped them all back,its revelation unit strat...they are paper

[tulip wave]

No bro... Youre not winning with a cc comp if you win 1 turn you still gotta land the stuff

[orchid tapir]

Yea you dont play cc comp,you just use mio to cc their revelation unit,then you wipe with unit like yeli revelation or massiah nuke

[tulip wave]

Im not talking about using her against a rev comp? I'm talking about normal usage investment

[orchid tapir]

Okay the most investment you need on mio is like 3 on s1 and 2 on s2 for freeze chance,so 5

But on rev depend on how many ssr you use you will use 3 of the min/ssr for those speed boost

[tulip wave]

No cd reduction on her s2? Good luck with that

[orchid tapir]

Why you need cd reduction if you wipe out all their rev unit? Yeli with revelation or massiah with revelation/count is 1 shotting paper revelation with 1 s3,what you need cd reduction for?

[fiery tree]

I don't see how this is different than any other comp in the game

[tulip wave]

Again, i'm not talking about using her against a rev comp, i'm talking about what invesment requires as an unit

[tulip wave]

Really? I gotta farm all the dungeons for modules and shells, every one of them, while they farm hoyan and doki, i gotta roll every one of my shell stats while they just roll 1, i gotta skill up every skill of them while they are set up with just their s1

[fiery tree]

Never lucky and kekker are using CC comps currently and are top RTA players so this doesn't make sense either

[tulip wave]

Read, i'm not saying cc is bad? Im saying those units need skills

[fiery tree]

Massiah needs his S3, Yeli needs max lattice investment, most rev cleavers are also leveling units like RC, Kazuyo, Obol, celince that need their own lattice investment

[tulip wave]

Specially mio which is lowkey unplayable without skill ups

[fiery tree]

Blindly assuming that rev doesn't need investments is just naive

[tulip wave]

Massiah and yeli are not into the rev problem, they are normal cleavers they are fine doing the dmg im not talking about them when talking about the rev problem

[fiery tree]

Search Yeon in this channel and look at his shells

[tulip wave]

Thats my point? Normal shells with only 1 roll in speed thats all they need

[fiery tree]

He has 7 perfect rolled revelations he's farmed for and rolled to have the correct substats

All need attack red speed and final damage and he went through the trouble of not only farming the mats for it but also rerolling them to get red on important stats

I'm playing turn 2 bruiser and I just roll for purple and I compete against them

[tulip wave]

He didnt show that, he literally just showed their speed and nah they don't need that

[tulip wave]

Nice, i'm not saying is unbeatable? Im saying that dont require as much investment as other comps

[fiery tree]

They require the same amount as any comp

[tulip wave]

😭 ✌️

[fiery tree]

If you don't know how to invest comps just say so

[simple lotus]

they don't need red either

[tulip wave]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-cat-is-this-bait-cat-is-this-ragebait-gif-10902073105296387701

[fiery tree]

The fact that I don't even play rev and have to fight against it every day and I'm defending it

I just research what they do and how to counter it and GG I climb RTA ladder

[humble fossil]

Why do you need to roll for final damage? Does it affect rev damage? Also it seems more problematic that traditional cleave seems non-viable

[cyan echo]

can anyone wearing bloodbath amber counter revelation? or is tiamat the only viable bruiser right now?

[fiery tree]

Tiamat, Holden, rahu, Lilith are all viable in this meta

Me and bread use them in top 5 RTA vs the best rev cleavers and survive

[cyan echo]

is amber also needed for Holden? or can he survive with just bloodbath?

[humble fossil]

Does final damage affect rev damage? Why do you need to roll for that?

[tulip wave]

Nice but be coherent

[fiery tree]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-cat-is-this-bait-cat-is-this-ragebait-gif-10902073105296387701

[fiery tree]

No

This is why people fail against rev

Stop trying to tank everything and figure out how to mitigate damage

[orchid tapir]

Yea my point rev need the same investment as non-rev because to block rev comp you can invest both of these...mio(for cc them) or lily(s1 max and use s3 to make their s3 cd)

[tulip wave]

Thats not the point, youre not making your rta comp just to play against an specific comp, if i play bruiser i need a lot of skill ups for them to work, i if play cc i need a lof of skill ups for them to work, if i play rev i need s1 at most

Let alone shells and modules

[fiery tree]

Bruiser does not need a lot of skills up to work

[tulip wave]

Play Lilith holden doki fuqiu etc without skill ups

[fiery tree]

Holden S1, Doki S3, Fuqiu doesn't need any, Lilith S3

All of these need 1 skill raised

No different than rev

[tulip wave]

Let alone borgne which is useless without skill ups

[fiery tree]

No one plays borgne

[tulip wave]

Is this ragebait

No one plays him because he is useless

[fiery tree]

Legit no one in top 50 plays borgne

[tulip wave]

No wonders why

[humble fossil]

Does Lilith not want s1 leveled? And can the extra turn proc from bramble?

[tulip wave]

And without her s2 is awful as well

[fiery tree]

She wants it but by no means does she need it to function

She only need S3 to land her stun

[tulip wave]

Well thats the point lmao

While bruisers might be usable with 1 skills they need them all to be good

While rev is at max potential with 1 skill

[fiery tree]

You act like bruiser comps have the lattice to be max skill

[tulip wave]

Is not the same a 511 holden or a 555 holden or 555 lilith

They are both wsy too skill dependsnt

Doki too

[fiery tree]

Rev needs as much attack and speed as possible that's at least 2 skills that need to be leveled

[tulip wave]

Huh

What?

The attack stats and speeds are usually in the s1

[fiery tree]

Not on every character

[tulip wave]

Most of them

[fiery tree]

Rev also need to level speed boosters to contest other rev

[tulip wave]

But they chase the speed anyways no one is skilling something for the attack like no one is struggling to deal dmg with a rev comp

[fiery tree]

You make all these assumptions and you aren't going anywhere. Bruisers need the same investments as Rev

[orchid tapir]

Anyway why we complain about lattice investment? Isnt all this problem only show up on challanger where bunch of whale is

[fiery tree]

How do I know? I'm playing with and against these rev players as a brusier and comparing investment

Madness has 3 people in the top 10 RTA and 2 of them play rev

[tulip wave]

I told you, you just dont want to accept that a rev comp can work at its fullest with only 1 skill up while others needs all of them

[orchid tapir]

Like how f2p even compete if they still focus on inferno pve

[tulip wave]

Thats just making it worse then

[fiery tree]

Saying this implies a brusier comp can't work without skill ups

[tulip wave]

There is no fairness in low rank where they don't even have to skill their s1

[fiery tree]

When it can and does

[tulip wave]

Ok who is winning a rev comp without skill ups or a bruiser one without skill ups

[orchid tapir]

Yea so its not f2p problem because its doesnt exist on their bracket

[fiery tree]

Me

Most of my bruisers are max skill on one skill only

[tulip wave]

Rev is not in lower brackets?

[orchid tapir]

No atleast on diamond

[tulip wave]

What?

[orchid tapir]

No swiftraid rev

[tulip wave]

I'm literally there playing against rev everygame?

[fiery tree]

What rank

[tulip wave]

Even marvell rev?

[fiery tree]

Diamond 2

How many games?

[tulip wave]

I don't know but what that would prove

Im facing rev legit every 2 games

[fiery tree]

It would prove time fighting them rather than losing 50 games and crying about something

No viper

No veronika

No cut potential

No tia either lol

[tulip wave]

They are not really killing me, most of them im starting to have no problem, i'm just not a.. that say is not a problem and requires not invesment

And you can see the viper right there

And the fuqiu with lighthouse

All of them in bloodbath

[orchid tapir]

Yes....people even struggle to get 1 fastest unit,how are they even thinking multiple of them? I can even win with 1 cc unit that fast into a wipe with yeli rev

[tulip wave]

A sania too

[fiery tree]

I just say skill issue. Most of my units aren't even on lighthouse or amber. Most of my units are on jackel and I'm countering these rev players

[tulip wave]

Congrats bro youre insane we see it you beat them all and that means it is balanced

Your local whale for some reason

[fiery tree]

You have more tools than I have and can't figure out how to use them

[tulip wave]

That might be what the 100% of players are

[tulip wave]

I told you i have not that much problem against rev

Im just not that stupid and not gonna pretend there is not a problem with it like you

[cyan echo]

what are your modules and sets for viper, holden and sania? bloodbath for all?

[fiery tree]

So you invest into how to beat rev and it's no longer an issue

And you can fight them

Got it

What's the problem?

[tulip wave]

If you think this is fair for everyone game is gonna die

[fiery tree]

I'm losing to CC comps because they steal my doki and strip my bulwark. CC is op I can't counter it

Do I cry about CC or just raise my resist

[tulip wave]

I have no problem, and when i get more lighthouse inferno is gonna be even less of a problem

Does that mean rev is not a problem overall? No

[wide nest]

so is the complaint about rev or just undergeared characters

im kinda confused

[fiery tree]

^

Babys first pvp gacha

[tulip wave]

Cc units are doing the work they are designed to do, who is complaining about cc? Name a single one, and they requires invesment which rev dont, thats my main issue

[tulip wave]

My main complain is the lack of invesment a rev comp need compared to other comps

Is not healthy

[wide nest]

what lack of investment

[tulip wave]

They just need 3 lattices in every unit to work at full

1 roll on every shell

Just need to farm hoyan

Just need to farm doki

[wide nest]

same goes to bruisers they can just use 3 lattice

and farm aurora and rengo

[fiery tree]

Not even rengo

[wide nest]

i dont see the difference?

[tulip wave]

What bruiser is working as it fullest with 3 lattices name 1 now

Now

[fiery tree]

I just farm nico

Me

[wide nest]

tiamat

[fiery tree]

My team

[tulip wave]

Tiamat is working with 3?

[fiery tree]

Tiamat, lilith, holden

Yes

[tulip wave]

Not s1 not s3?

[wide nest]

tiamat is fully function at 1 1 1

[fiery tree]

Tiamat doesn't even need 1

[tulip wave]

So we dont know what at is fullest means anymore

Zzz

[fiery tree]

tell me you don't run bruiser

Without saying it

[wide nest]

so u dont understand bruiser and u just giving wild claims on lattice investment

[tulip wave]

Yea we can't see the bruisers in the screen i just send

[tulip wave]

At is fullest bro, sybau is your not gonna be coherent

[cyan echo]

what are your modules and sets for viper, holden and sania? bloodbath for all?

[fiery tree]

Yes

Everything is bloodbath

All of my units

[wide nest]

u are the one that is not coherent, i literally told u 1 1 1 tiamat can function and then u say no like lmao

[humble fossil]

Is traditional cleave even viable at high rta?

[fiery tree]

Not if massiah is banned

[tulip wave]

at it fullest bro at it fullest lets learn how to read

[wide nest]

so rev requires more lattice investment in this case, or are u just gonna say it doesnt count

[cyan echo]

I see, thanks! hp% or def%? do you run bulwark or swift rush other than bloodbath?

[tulip wave]

Ofc a tiamat can play 111

Is that the Best version of tiamat?

[fiery tree]

VS a brusier a rev comp can also be 1/1/1

Because they don't need speed

What's the difference

[humble fossil]

Tbh that actually seems like an issue, how nonviable cleave is

[wide nest]

idk this is just cherry picking at this point

[fiery tree]

There's some people that can play standard and make due with 1 or 2 cleavers like massiah and yeli

But those require 3 boosters and at least 2 max investment dps

And then it's also just shutdown by them safe picking veronika

[cyan echo]

does veronica need skillups? i’m assuming she just goes for speed to move second

[fiery tree]

No veronika does not need skill ups besides her S3 to level 3

[cyan echo]

are your units on hp% or def%? do you run bulwark or swift rush too?

cool, thanks!

[fiery tree]

Depends on the units

[cyan echo]

hp% is useless vs revelation right?

[fiery tree]

No?

[cyan echo]

hmm ok i just assumed all the rev units can do at least 10% of max hp just with a freya buff

[tulip wave]

They do thats why they give up if you manage to tank it

Hp% is useless

[fiery tree]

Things scale off of HP like heals

And damage

So like...

You still need it

[cyan echo]

thanks guys

[abstract basin]

Let alone we have to lattice our skills just as much as bruisers if not more to function!

And find double crit + atk right side

@fiery tree knows how invested you have to be to pull of rev at its peak

[fiery tree]

https://tenor.com/view/ohnepixel-ohnebanger-banger-ohne-gif-9487226311395847787

I got you yeon

[tulip wave]

In any world they just need a red speed to work, dont be dishonest, and 3 lattice for speed, don't be dishonest again

A 3 lattice Freya is doing the same as a 555 Freya for rev, is not the case for a 3 lattice tiamat and a 555

So there is clearly a difference when it comes to invesment for them to be at full potential

[abstract basin]

Oh so I dont need to skill up my sk3 for some char to match rev cd like celince in case I cant wipe 1st rotation?

[tulip wave]

Ok if You don't wipe 1st rotation youre cooked like

You can but youre cooked

[trim yarrow]

if you don't wipe first rotation you're dead 🥲

[abstract basin]

Not always lol

Ive had plenty of games where I dont wipe turn 1 and still win by lapping and proccing rev again

[tulip wave]

Nice even if you want to invest in her because youre top rta thats understadable but 99% of players who use rev dont need that

[abstract basin]

For cc units with rev like hein you also need to skill up for higher chance to strip

[tulip wave]

They either kill or they are cooked

And a 3/1/4 celince is still not as much investment as most units needs to be at full potential

[abstract basin]

Okay but if a celince was 555 she would be an even more insane unit for rev bc I can control ppl with sk1 with a fat shield

[zealous forge]

To me high end rev comps clearly need as much investment as anything else. The convenient thing is that low-tier rev comps (which currently terrorize majority of the playerbase in diamond and below) are conveniently also the best comps for PvE, which naturally get built first by most people because they need to farm shells/modules. This means low to mid tier revs are cost-efficient (because you need them for PvE anyway).

[abstract basin]

Shes literally the same as any other char to reach full potential i dont see your point

[tulip wave]

😭 😭 lets define fat shield lmaoooo

[tulip wave]

Her shield potential scales off hp, like you aint getting her shield potential never

[abstract basin]

Not if I have her on crit crit hp for potentially longer fights

As a rev cleaver I never play to win from my 1st cycle

But also prepare for if they survive

[tulip wave]

Then you missing the eff acc potential of her debuffs which is the main point of celince

[fiery tree]

Wait til he finds out about insight on the shell

[abstract basin]

Shes a 4 hit 30% on sk3 you dont need that high eff acc on her

Literally whats this is for

[fiery tree]

Ya I figured

[tulip wave]

But its okay like i said it would be understadable if you min max them but thats not the case for the 99% of players

A rev comp don't need that much invesment to work

Is either kill or lose

And is unhealty

[abstract basin]

Then I dont see a problem its just standard cleave

Vs people unprepared for it

[tulip wave]

Standard cleave needs both a setup and higher investment

[zealous forge]

maybe in high mmr you need 4 revs, but for everyone else rev yeli alone can cleave everything

[tulip wave]

Not just in their skills but also in their stats

[fiery tree]

That's a gear and knowledge issue that comes from it being a new gacha

That's not a rev problem

[tulip wave]

Another Big problem of rev is that the units are they own setup

[abstract basin]

You dont think rev cleave needs setup too?

[tulip wave]

And thats unhealty again

[abstract basin]

I can reassure u that rev cleave needs setup as well

[empty veldt]

Can Cleave comp work on bruiser

[tulip wave]

No when Freya pushback and push your team, when heinrich is stripping, obol and kazuyo are cc

And all of them can be in 330

Not like a messiah which just cant be that fast and still doing dmg

[fiery tree]

Who's gonna tell him

[abstract basin]

[fiery tree]

Fast massiah is already an archetype

Legit what you just explained

[tulip wave]

Nice i'm telling you, a fast messiah aint doing nothing

[abstract basin]

I literally run a fast messiah

[fiery tree]

[tulip wave]

Youre rev player 😭

Everything you have is fast

[empty veldt]

https://tenor.com/view/aintnoway-gif-26881270

[abstract basin]

Yes bc I farmed and invested in speed

[tulip wave]

Nice

[abstract basin]

Just like how bruiser players invest in bb

[fiery tree]

BuT ReVaLaTion ReQuirEs nO InVestMenT

[abstract basin]

Same thing

[fiery tree]

[runic saddle]

shotty has been warned

Reason: Duplicated text

[tulip wave]

I'm telling you a normal cleave setup flor messiah is not working

[tulip wave]

Nice, i'm not against that

[tulip wave]

(Messiah being 330)

[abstract basin]

Yes and tell me how much investment i need to pull of something like that

[tulip wave]

Speed?

[abstract basin]

Let alone my other 8 rev units

[zealous forge]

They should've balanced everything with early progression in mind tbh. PvE is balanced around speed and cleave (and DoT) which bleeds into PvP because people don't have any other comps so it's always speed + rev below mythic rta

[fiery tree]

You just said speed alone won't do enough damage

[abstract basin]

Not to mention I have 2 other openers I need to invest speed in as well

[fiery tree]

So what is it

[tulip wave]

In a comparisson of investment between rev and a bruiser are you deadass you thinking you invest more?

[fiery tree]

Brother

You have 2 of the top RTA players

[abstract basin]

Its literally the same

[tulip wave]

In a normal cleave comp no

[fiery tree]

One who uses rev and one who fights it with bruisers

And both are saying you are wrong

[tulip wave]

Ok? Legit the one who started this thread is top 1 in rta?

[fiery tree]

That's yeon

[tulip wave]

Fallacies flying over for no reason

[abstract basin]

Check again im top 1 and bread has a different opinion now on rev

[tulip wave]

Bread was like top 1 till like 2 hours ago i havent checked

[fiery tree]

You act like top players don't talk to each other

[fiery tree]

[abstract basin]

Like hes literally in my guild

You think i dont talk to him at all

[tulip wave]

Nice but who is saying that 😭

This bro is coming with the argument of

[fiery tree]

You did

Right here

[tulip wave]

Ok bro we are higher rank, our opinión is higher

And i'm telling you the one who started this thread is top 1

[abstract basin]

I mean its true we understand the game better than anyone

[tulip wave]

Or have more resources??

[wide nest]

and hes saying the thread starter has a different opinion on rev now

[tulip wave]

Like lets be fr

[fiery tree]

And yeon is top 1 currently in the same guild as the guy who started the thread way back before he understood how to counter rev

[wide nest]

but then u conveniently just skip past it

i mean its all about the agenda i guess

[tulip wave]

Nice, but he started if for a reason, he lived what the majority of players are living now

[fiery tree]

I've got 400 games this RTA season and I started late 💀

[tulip wave]

Now he can counter like shotty as well

That doesnt mean lower ranks are not suffering against rev like he did

[fiery tree]

Yeah because he didn't know how to counter it

Now he does

[tulip wave]

He even quit rta that moment BC of this

[fiery tree]

And now there's no issue

[tulip wave]

Let alone rengo is the hardest boss to farm like 90% of players are not accesing to it

[fiery tree]

Brother if you cannot farm hell rengo there's bigger issues

[tulip wave]

I don't think rev is unbeatable or broken anymore

[fiery tree]

[wide nest]

u can just use 2 matrix lighthouse from hell LMAO

[tulip wave]

But is an unhealty problem

[tulip wave]

Ok without 6pc and less stats

[abstract basin]

Its not tho just counter it

[fiery tree]

Most of my units aren't using the 6pc

You don't need them

[tulip wave]

I think there are good counters now and i don't have that much problem myself

But most of the playerbase will

[zealous forge]

up until last week even the weekly tournament was majority cleave. the playerbase just need more time to adapt. until then pvp will stay a trainwreck

[fiery tree]

Ok so maybe instead of nerfing rev they could tweet out a video on how to counter rev

[tulip wave]

Me neither, that doesnt mean youre not losing stats there when not playing against rev

You could be using a better shell

[tulip wave]

If you lack the counters is bs

[fiery tree]

I guarantee you that if rev gets nerfed the meta will be infinitely worse

Because everyone will go bruisers

No one will cleave

[trim yarrow]

they will say spend lattice in hoyan and veronika who are exclusively PvP what do you think will happen

[fiery tree]

And every match will be 20 minutes

[tulip wave]

Mmm i dont know if nerfing rev is the way to go

But they gotta address the problem somehow

[fiery tree]

It's simple

Tell people how to counter rev

[tulip wave]

I'm telling you is unhealty because of the low amount of investment this comp requires, not because is unbeatable

[fiery tree]

A 3 lattice character can counter the entirety of rev

[tulip wave]

When youre going in with a fairly amount of invested units and Freya without skill ups is oneshotting them that is gonna make a lot players quit

Or stop playing rta

[fiery tree]

Even if there are 5 rev units

[tulip wave]

Veronika?

There are good rev counters against veronika and preban

[zealous forge]

low tier counter should exist, tbh. PvE should also be less about speed and dps race/scoring based on dps. that way more people would be inclined to invest on bruisers

[tulip wave]

Thats what im trying to explainn

This dudes don't understand or don't want to understand

Like i been saying this whole time im not complaining because of me

[fiery tree]

I've said it multiple times in this thread of just making ban protection and preban across all ranks

And most of the issues with rev would go away

[tulip wave]

Ok thats something at least

[zealous forge]

most of the lower PvP will still be about PvE cleave comps vs PvE cleave comps as long as they don't fix PvE itself imo

like this problem mainly exists because of the PvE problem

[fiery tree]

You're telling me that my 9 minute bruiser aurora run isn't optimal?

And I should invest in a max yeli with rev

[tulip wave]

I would love a 9 minutes rengo bruiser run

[fiery tree]

They exist

Holden rahu tank down

[tulip wave]

I'm pulling it soon

The holden vice strat

[tulip wave]

How many ambers 😭

And how many skills in holden and tiamat

[covert tendon]

100% win rate

[twilit oxide]

Why is only farming doki and hoyan a negative for rev but only farming aurora and rengo a positive for bruisers?

I don’t get it

[tulip wave]

Bruisers don't farm only aurora and rengo who told you that, where are the artisans jackal guards ambers? The etherplague the evolguard?

The bramble?

[vital apex]

Why would Hein be especially a problem? He's not fast and they clearly envisioned his kit being flexible

[tulip wave]

Alicorns, gigabytes

[zealous forge]

because I feel characters should have specializations and niches rather than being allowed to deal main dps tier damage as support. like if hein wants to block buffs to counter defensive comps, his damage should be mediocre.

[vital apex]

That doesn't explain why Hein is especially a problem when the issue is units with high base speed

Your disagreement with the design philosophy behind him is a separate issue you're confusing for an issue with him on revelation

In terms of who's especially a problem with Revelation, it's not slowy mcslow

[zealous forge]

because among the rev supports, hein specifically counters immunity. kazuyo is already really strong, but even her cannot bypass immunity

[twilit oxide]

It’s the main set being bloodbath. The same as revelation being swift rush. If you wanted to min max you would need momentum or onslaught from terror or aurora to get the 6 set

[tulip wave]

Bramble is like the main 8 set 💀

[twilit oxide]

On tiemat isn’t it?

[tulip wave]

On tiamat and almost everyone 💀

[vital apex]

Hein counters low res. A crit-invested Hein cutting through all your immunity doesn't make the unit especially a problem

And, again, a slow unit cleaving isn't the biggest issue with rev

[zealous forge]

nobody builds res, and in case you don't know heinrich has 137 max speed, on par with tsukiyomi

[vital apex]

Tsuki isn't that fast either

What is that supposed to say

And also, then build res

Or CC him. Or do any number of other things. You're not thinking logically about this

[zealous forge]

they are among the fastest units in the game. they are both at 137 while lily is at 142 and kloss 143

saying heinrich is slow is just false, he's faster than the majority of the roster

[vital apex]

He's slow compared to Freya, who is an actual especially-an-issue unit

And all those others yes, that's the point

That matters

[zealous forge]

there are kazuyo, freya, hein, who else, celince? rev supports

kazuyo is already really strong btw, but even her is slower than hein and gets screwed by immunity

literally kazuyo is 136, hein 137

[vital apex]

I know

I didn't say Kazuyo was especially a problem

[zealous forge]

every rev support is a problem and they shouldn't be able to deal that much damage

[twilit oxide]

Didn’t jonk say you need evolguard for bruiser though?

[vital apex]

They gave Heinrich his base attack for a reason

[tulip wave]

Some supports use evol, like fuqiu

Lingluo and sania too

[zealous forge]

I only specifically singled out hein because his stuff goes through immunity.

rendering bulwark useless against him

but really every rev support is a problem. I also use hein btw

[winged inlet]

Obol also does it

[twilit oxide]

But if you want to counter rev you just go swiftsmite on fuqiu and have her cut

[tulip wave]

She should be able to do that without swiftsmite

If you have lighthouse

[winged inlet]

The main problem for how rev works currently imo is for lower ranks

Ppl will see their teams get one shot by fast support then not queue again

It's just not healthy anyway you look at it

[tulip wave]

Thats exactly all i been saying 😔

And those dudes make it like i'm complaining because i can't face it 🥀

[winged inlet]

I think it's because there was another guy who said its broken and there is no counter

[misty zinc]

people want a season full of 20 minute bruiser mirrors so bad

[winged inlet]

Who said that

[twilit oxide]

Just seems like people complaining about early vs late game builds

Just due to the fact that more people invested into rev units because they overturned the farming content

[winged inlet]

It's not just that

Like supports shouldn't land that dmg while having high speed

It's also a design problem imo

[vital apex]

Careful, you'll summon Yeongeo again

[winged inlet]

All is I'm saying it leaves a terrible impression on low ranks or ppl who just started rta

[twilit oxide]

Cleave is rampant in every low ranks though

[winged inlet]

Cleaving is fine if it was done by actual dps

[twilit oxide]

You’re getting cleaved mostly due to being out geared

[winged inlet]

And why is cleaving completely dependant on this one shell?

[tulip wave]

Thats another problem

What is count and white fang even for in this game 😭

[trim yarrow]

bro forgot the main character

rc77

[twilit oxide]

Cause it’s the best dps option given the low resources you can invest in.

[zealous forge]

I said that, mainly after watching the trainwreck that was the last weekly tournament filled with rev cleaves and getting wrecked by rev heinrich myself. But turns out people have come with new strategy (lighthouse) so I stand corrected.

[winged inlet]

I meant what chad said about ppl wanting 20 minute bruiser matches

speaking of the tourney

if u look at the comments either on twitch or youtube

or even the cc reaction

it's really bad

I geniunly think rta will be a dead mode or have very small population if things don't change

[zealous forge]

true, we don't want neither oneshot nor snoozefest.

[winged inlet]

one shot or snoozefest can exist if it makes sense

one shot should always need setup

snoozefest should be b/p error

[zealous forge]

to me, ideally in a balanced draft scenario both sides would go back and forth without healing back to full

[tulip wave]

Why are we acting like oneshot is only up to rev supports? Like yeli or rosa are not killing entire teams by themselves

[vital apex]

I've never seen a Yeli or a Rosa without rev

Oh that's not what you said

[vital apex]

Because those are slow

[tulip wave]

Yea what i meant is that traditional setup cleave is ok too, its playable

Tsuki Lily messiah yeli beyontin Freya that kind of stuff is not dead

Rosa

[vital apex]

Cause the Freya is on Rev

[tulip wave]

I have seen some normal ones 😔

[twilit oxide]

I’m fine if they nurf rev. So long as they take bloodbath with it

[tulip wave]

It would be weird if they nerf rev atp

[twilit oxide]

Nah. Easy fix would be to lower the % hp from the enemy

Wouldn’t affect pve and affect pvp

[tulip wave]

But it would be weird after what they said in the hypertalk

[twilit oxide]

Dw, they said hoyan ignored defense in their promo

[bleak dragon]

what shells and sets do you use on your sania and vice?

[vital apex]

They can and should be bullied out of having their shitty opinions

[tulip wave]

I give rev nerf like a 5% chance

It they really wanted to do it why would they say that its crazy

[vital apex]

If the only shells that exist are rev, lighthouse, codex, and amber or whatever they'll be forced to do something

[zealous forge]

Eh, they will prolly mask it as a "readjustment", buffing some aspects of it while nerfing some, but the end result is a nerf

[inland quartz]

The rta matchup this weekend should be hilarious

[verbal rock]

She worked fine with just max S2 for me, no S1 at all lmao. Hit mythic in RTA with that

[verbal rock]

Ever seen a pure CC team vs a pure tank team? My gosh those are long as battles

[zealous forge]

I actually don't mind watching long battles as long as the HPs consistently decrease... the worst thing about snoozefests is when someone heals and everything goes back to full

[minor karma]

What's wrong with Borgne for top 50 rta and how to fix him?

[fiery tree]

He cleaves without rev. The damage he deals is the same or less as a hein or obel on rev. He doesn't have any innate defense ignore etc.

[warm kite]

I keep seeing people say 2 Revelation user back to back shouldnt Team wipe… But IF it was Yeli and Messiah back to back on white Fang or the epic shell Bee 🐝 it would also should team wipe

[minor karma]

So he can't cleave.. Would he work in bruiser teams?

[fiery tree]

Not really. You'd need insane investment, he'd need to have some kind of way to survive vs rev, and he'd need high damage to retaliate

[pale turtle]

So topic can be closed rn, revelation is absolutely useless front of real bruiser teams with good shells. ❤️

[verbal rock]

He's tanky though. I see Borgne used as a Bruiser quite a bit and he's been effective

[minor karma]

Do you think he's fine as he his or maybe he needs some adjustments?

[verbal rock]

I saw him in high masters in RTA so he's probably good as is...

[fiery tree]

You think he's surviving against rev cleave? Like yeah he can get like 60k HP with enough attack but it doesn't matter if he doesn't have good defense or counters to rev

[minor karma]

Do you mean after surviving the first turn, a Borgne doesnt do enough for the team compared to other bruisers like Tiamat, Rahu or Holden?

[tulip wave]

Were you using the most broken unit in the game? Aka Kazami kazuyo?

Legit i think she is the only unit that deserves a nerf right now

[verbal rock]

Him? Nah, unless Bloodbath. Regardless, a well built bruiser team has a cutter that will heal or shield or something after first cleave anyway

[verbal rock]

I used her too but Mio and Heinrich were my MVPs tbh

My final match to hit Mythic was me with Mio and enemy with Kazuyo

[minor karma]

This is what i had in mind but why are we not seeing more Borgne in the top 50s?

[candid pivot]

one day, maybe ill have resource for bonkme

[verbal rock]

Not sure but I've seen him a bit in top 50 - 200 , Tiamat is just better though

[minor karma]

He might have a resurgence if we do get balancing on revelation

[fiery tree]

If there is a balance with rev I'd imagine we will be seeing a lot of borgne massiah cleaves

Since they both ignore passives

Borgne would also counter viper since he doesn't rely on crit

[trim yarrow]

borgne is playable also in bruiser comp

[minor karma]

Do you use him? Hows he fare vs rev teams?

[trim yarrow]

Im not playing him he is not meta currently

they need to nerf rev and he will be meta

[minor karma]

I used to think that too.. But now I just want units like Borgne to be in the meta without gutting half a dozen other units

[vital apex]

I think it's fine if they gut DPS Freya and Kazuyo

[tulip wave]

He requires like all skills to work and do less dmg than any rev unit

Thats not happening

And he can't protect himself from rev units with a lighthouse or amber like other bruisers or he will be doing even less dmg

[minor karma]

Sure, but in your opinion how is he compared to his actual adjacent units in the bruiser dps category?

In this current meta

[tulip wave]

Really bad 🥀

[minor karma]

Holden and Rahu both rely on defense stat and also suffer from replacing unbreakable with bloodbath. Same goes with Tiamat with hp

So considering all that he's still the worst out of them all i guess?

If he's the worst in dps, how about survivability? Nothing tops Tiamat. Holden and Rahu completely relies on their artisans

But Borgne has life steal so does this count for something at least?

[fiery tree]

I don't run Holden on artisan

[minor karma]

Yea i was just making a case for Borgne's pros and cons on RTA compared to his alternatives

[tulip wave]

I don't think they suffer too much from not going unbreakable

I even think is a bad set on them

[minor karma]

Which makes them able to switch to Lighthouse or Amber and not Borgne i guess is what you're saying

[orchid tapir]

.

[leaden parrot]

didnt know Bread was the one who pushed for Rev nerf

[orchid tapir]

I had no idea either lol....only rec this post because it has lot of comment

[scarlet narwhal]

Holy nerf rev again frfr

[tidal obsidian]

If only bro had build BB LH instead

oh wait couldn't farm Rengo/Aurora

[sage dock]

Im down for another rev nerf

[cobalt fog]

How is this post goin up again

[mystic token]

rev actually too strong still

the fact that people are still using it

[sage dock]

Because rev is broken in pve, nerf it pls

[mystic token]

ya remove the pvp only nerf make it global