Please fix the incredibly broken Revelation spam, this is gonna take over pvp soon, please nerf

[languid bison]

My fastest unit got 288 lol

[pallid hamlet]

my lily can be 311 but I run 295 or so for rta

[warm solstice]

Everyone should care cuz if they cannot progress and quit the game all people will quit eventually. Casuals are important for any game.

[languid bison]

I have shittier gear than you

[pallid hamlet]

my second fastest is

272

[languid bison]

But only top players who do inferno are gonna compete with top players

[pallid hamlet]

ok im out

I know I will never see eye to eye with yeong, this is for sure getting nerfed eventually, just hope it doesnt ruin ews

[tulip wave]

Na this aint reaching ews

[warm solstice]

Sure, but if you leave this in the game everyone will spam revelation in arena. The idea of building counter requires you to farm specific full tank gear and even then we are full sending speed because your shit support can 1 tap the whole team with true damage for fun.

[tulip wave]

They want people to spend resources and build stuff, people going there with 4* stuff unskilled

Showing that to everybody

Na

[languid bison]

I’m not talking about revelation haha

I was just saying gear will get better after farming this week end

And yeah obviously people who can farm inferno are gonna shit on people who can’t

But that’s already the case

[hidden dagger]

Jack: " you won't always be chasing speed "
Jack right now: ...

[languid bison]

True

[abstract basin]

It wont get nerfed tho they said it in the announcement

Prob unit the end of the rta season unless the meta changes

[tulip wave]

💔

[tulip wave]

💔

[hidden dagger]

ignore pvp for now and focus on pve this entire season and just hop on another game for RTA

this meta sucks

[abstract basin]

I mean how many people have you seen in rta run more than 3+ rev units let alone 1 on a support because when I was climbing Ive seen no one yet running rev freya or other multihits units

[azure aurora]

There not even called supports, no unit in this game has a label.

[maiden pivot]

this might fall under "except for emergency fixes"

i think its only less of an issue bc a limited % of the playerbase even have acess or would be reasonably using it rn?

[abstract basin]

Well its not a critical bug

[maiden pivot]

rather than a bug its like maybe

a drastic oversight?

i wonder why this never came up in cbt

[abstract basin]

I feel like a good portion of the playerbase already hit 45+ to farm and utilize the shell

[maiden pivot]

seems like something that woulda gotten spotted

[abstract basin]

It was brought up in cbt its just no one really cared

[maiden pivot]

most ppl who hit 45~ are mucking around tryinng to setup threshold teams prob

[maiden pivot]

seems kinda fishy

[abstract basin]

https://discord.com/channels/994852318904340560/1368324172220071996

Heres the thread back in cbt

[maiden pivot]

interesting seems like a lot of ppl didnt believve it would actually work this way

thanks for the link

[steep bluff]

a lot of people read “capped on atk” but don’t actually do the math

[compact dove]

thank god i’m not the only one who realizes

it’s early so people are fickle with resources and time so I get it, but man sometimes ya gotta take a step back and consider options of counterplay before spam tagging mods and devs to nerf something

[quartz gyro]

Can real damage from relevation crit so we can use cdamage to increase it

[jolly depot]

no

[sullen swift]

was this always like this tho?

@pine plover sorry for the ping! but since you are (or were) a Revelation User, can you tell if after the "Flash Update" you noticed revelation weaker/nerfed??

was it (the in battle buff) always there ? i mean the buff in the screenshot i posted

[fierce wolf]

it works the same way as it did before. The flash update didnt touch the shell

[sullen swift]

the shell tooltip says 10/12% max hp on a Crit per hit as before, but in battle buff says each crit has 40% chance to proc

was that always like that? wasnt it 100% to proc?

[fierce wolf]

hm, not sure

but in every fight i´ve been i think it always procced, so i´m not even sure if that buff tooltip is correct

[tulip wave]

yea

[fierce wolf]

i went into union boss and it procced 12/12 times

so idk if the tooltip is coorect tbh

yea it´s definitely not 40% like the buff says

I did like 36 hits with rosa and all of them procced

[jolly depot]

it was always like that

[languid bison]

its tooltip typo then

[jolly depot]

this is a screenshot from beta

[fierce wolf]

yea the 40% is definitely not supposed to be there

don´t think it´s just luck that i procced it 36/36 times

[pine plover]

It's just a description/display issue like Hoyan's S3 (that ain't scale with Def either, it's still atk). This procs 100% of the time. Nothing changed during the flash updates.

[tidal obsidian]

future nerf incoming

[gleaming night]

We're definitely going to need a shell reset event.

[jolly depot]

at some point we might just need a relaunch

[mortal zealot]

just wait for next true dmg/ max hp % thing to drop np

[warm kite]

Yo who’s the GOATs that can do 3-4 Multi hits?

[jolly depot]

Aoe:
Hellkid Celince Freya
Rc-77 Dinah Kazuyo Heinrich

singletarget:
Yang, Victor

[fierce wolf]

Rosa

3 hits + additional 3 on main target

[pine epoch]

@compact dove imo, a solution could be as simple as nerfing kaz and freya and all the supports base attack down To like 300. Their kits aren’t balanced around doing damage.

[hard pilot]

💀

[round dune]

bro

lol

[abstract basin]

💀

[pine plover]

Let every knee bend before Thee, O Revelation, for we are your subjects, eternally grateful, eternally devoted. Praise the 🐐

[vital apex]

Why not just make true damage subject to the same reductions as everything else in the game

Let each instance equal its max potential and then run it through the filters. Maybe not in PvE, I dunno, but for PvP at least

[pine epoch]

Because then it isn’t true damage

[vital apex]

I guess not, but I also don't think I care about the integrity of the concept of true damage all that much

Not in like a rude way just to make my position clear

[silver wagon]

based

[vital apex]

Like sure, they invalidate that a bit, but I think that's worth the cost

[abstract basin]

I feel like true damage is good for the game though that way we have an option to deal with damage reductions

[vital apex]

That's not wrong either. I'm not dogmatic about it, I just don't think it can stay as-is. At the same time, it's a pretty low stakes season so they probably can afford to let the meta bloom and see what happens for now

[jolly depot]

I think having bloodbath affect revelation is a good counterplay.

You want to build bloodbath units against cleave anyway. Having them work against revelation-style cleave makes some sense.

Now that's unless they intend revelation to be sort of a tank-buster tech (don't think we have many of those, do we have anything else?). I don't know if that's needed, but we will soon see.

Maybe after 2x event the ladder will be more active about this as people finally will gear their stuff.

[tulip wave]

Revelation is intended to be a tank-buster obviously

what was not intended is not dps units using it

[pine epoch]

Support units aren’t balanced around being able to do 50% of your hp while still filling the support role.

[tulip wave]

They think it is healthy because is a creative build

its not because that dude is top 20 with rc77 freya and kazuyo

[pine epoch]

He’s in my guild lol

[tulip wave]

🥀

[abstract basin]

oh so were just going to assuming that freya is a support unit? I dont see anything in the game that labels this unit as 'support'

I consider freya as a dps unit actually with her high base atk of 817 and her atk buff into a 4hit aoe ability

[tulip wave]

Yea the cleanse and defence buff is what scream dps for me, or her insane attack base

[abstract basin]

dont have to click that button when her sk3 is an aoe nuke that atk buffs + nightmare debuff

[tulip wave]

Aoe nuke, 4 hits of 65% of her attack, one of the lowest base attacks in the game yea bro lowkey boring enjoy the top 20

[abstract basin]

65% x 4 is how much? 260% total

thats a lot of dmg

considering she gets her attack buff before she aoe nukes just thinkg about that

[full stump]

bbbbbbut Prydwen say shes a support

[abstract basin]

oh you're right how could I be so stupid

[tulip wave]

Youre right bro, run her without revelation and tell me how it goes

[abstract basin]

if prydwen says shes a support ig shes a support

[abstract basin]

why would I when thats her best shell

thats like telling me to run artisan on messiah

it just doesnt make any sense

[tulip wave]

I can run a white fang massiah xiada or rosa, can you run a white fang Freya?

[abstract basin]

I can but its not optimal what white fang purpose does for those units

[tulip wave]

👍

[mortal zealot]

They could just make it proc once not per hit. How they didn't expect people to manipulate it with multi hit is kinda showing to how limited their game knowledge is

[jolly depot]

white fang rosa/xiada is grief

[tulip wave]

I like revelation on them more, but single target dmg white fang is more dmg, while Freya running white fang is doing less dmg even single target that should tell you something

[jolly depot]

white fang is less singletarget damage on rosa

revelation against a high hp target deals 1080 rosa's atk%
white fang deals 220% crittable.

Even on a crit/crit/crit build rev is more damage

[tulip wave]

Maybe, i don't think so, revelation depends on the target too

[formal kiln]

Fun Challenge: Own 13 Awakened White Fangs

[tulip wave]

But well, it was an example of why Freya is not a dps, just an unit abusing revelation, you would deal no dmg if youre running another shell

Let alone kazuyo

[jolly depot]

heinrich also deals no dmg if you are running another shell

[tulip wave]

Heinrich?

That dude deals a lot of dmg

[jolly depot]

people thought heinrich is a dps 2 weeks ago

[tulip wave]

He can be both utility and dps

Not one of the highest base attack for nothing

[jolly depot]

and he deals no damage without rev

[tulip wave]

Idk where you getting that 🥀

[abstract basin]

Ya just like freya can be both a dps and utility

Never seen a dps that can buff as well?

[tulip wave]

Rage baiting into thinking this aint getting nerfed ✌️

[abstract basin]

Its not getting nerfed tho and I barely seen anyone in rta run rev freya or kazu at the top of the rta ladder

Its like its not even an issue at all

[tulip wave]

People is not that shameless 🥀 ✌️

[abstract basin]

Thats so cope LOL

If it was strong people would abuse it and you would see plenty of people at the top of rta abusing it for free points but its really not so

[tulip wave]

So top 1 made a thread about it and quit rta because is not strong

[orchid tapir]

This stuff is sound like what lower elo can abuse lol,i can make this so enemies dont use freya as their opener while enemy thinking im using freya as opener while its actually dps

[pine epoch]

@compact dove any developments on this dumb shit?

It’s so out of hand

[vale prairie]

happy to report that tiamat still bullies revelation 1 turn win players

🫡

[tulip wave]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-cat-is-this-bait-cat-is-this-ragebait-gif-10902073105296387701

[abstract basin]

guess who lost to rev 😹

no one is stopping anyone from building rev btw

day 1 ews most of the people that are 3-0 are turn 2 players what a surprise its like bruiser/sustain are still the most dominant playstyle

[pine epoch]

You’re a clown. Gtfo.

[alpine glen]

this shit brokes the pvp

[alpine glen]

Most people don't want to risk cleaving because everyone will know what your fastest unit is and they'll always ban it. On top of that, you're gambling on having more speed than your opponent, and in a best-of-one you don't want that much randomness. In the end, you guys talk without having any real understanding of the game or RTA

[abstract basin]

yeah but its like people can have more than 1 fast units and you could always ban their fastest? Bo1 actually strives off randomness to throw opponents off that are not suspecting it but people are too scared so they just settle with tank down. I think my rank proves that I do have a real understanding of the game and RTA

[alpine glen]

Yeah. I'm not questioning your experience in the game, I'm just saying that claiming bruisers are the most dominant playstyle because of the Bo1 tournament format seems like a weak argument to me. The DPS units in this game, along with the Shell we're talking about, have absurd damage

[pine plover]

Those who follow the path of Revelation are united by faith and invincible by conviction.

[stoic stirrup]

I'm my opinion they should just change it so either it only works with one Rev shell on the team as you don't need multiple for PvE

Or if two or more on a team it changes from true damage to normal damage

Or make bloodbath reduce true damage as well

If it's still broken after those changes, then take more drastic measures in combination with nerfing inferno

[proud fox]

Bloodbath lighthouse already cuts enough damage

[winged inlet]

nah they need to fix revelation asap

losing 50% on all ure team from the enemy supp won't make anyone take pvp seriously

[vital apex]

Evidently it doesn't, but also when something is so polarizing it forces one specific counter and nothing else in the meta, that's extremely bad

[proud fox]

5/8 of the people going to Shanghai for ews RTA are bloodbath/lighthouse players. All players had opportunity to build revelation, most didn't make it to the end. And of the ones that did there were tecchs beyond rev.

There's also cc players winning

[steep bluff]

4/8 played rev

[proud fox]

Only r1 4 and 5

That's 3

[humble fossil]

Is bloodbath on lighthouse the meta build on bruisers right now?

[stoic stirrup]

No, but it's the only thing you can build to maybe have a chance against a revelation cheeser.

Revelation has one counter, speed. Which is also what revelation users build. It's bad game design for a gacha when the only counter to speed is to also just have more speed.

The bloodbath doesn't help against it as it's true damage, that's there for everything else.

[stoic stirrup]

Yep, combined with the other decisions the dev team has made leaving revalation as is is a great way to fast track the game to EoS.

Despite whatever gaslight arguments they make defending it, people abusing it on supports in PvP know it's not balanced. You can look at cleave in any other game like this and they need some sort of setup, not here. They just don't want to lose their broken I win shell.

Not wanting it nerfed for PvE I understand, the content is way overturned as is

[pine epoch]

You clearly didn’t see the response.

They are playing it out through the tournament to see how things get affected and people react with counters. We’re seeing some potential counters. But it’s still BS.

They don’t want any changes to affect pve which I agree.

But don’t spread wrong info and doom posting about EoS lol

[stoic stirrup]

I did watch the tournament, and I saw a tiamat with lighthouse drop to maybe 30 % after the lighthouse procced and Lingluo die from one rev user.

If it's Messiah, that makes sense, he's an ignore def/passive, but there are counters to Messiah.

I'm not doom posting, but you are crazy of you think the game is going to be successful if PvP is just speed revelation vs speed revelation vs speed cleave.

[pine epoch]

You must have missed the first section of my post. Thats okay. Some people are more stupid than others.

It’s something they are monitoring. After the first instance of jumping at balance changes and the community blowing their shit up, they are seeing how it plays out.

[stoic stirrup]

Tell me a counter to it that isn't move first?

Are you?

[runic saddle]

kitzun has been warned

Reason: Spam

[stoic stirrup]

It's great they are monitoring it. This thread is for feedback, which I am leaving.

[pine epoch]

Lighthouse BB. Speed. Amber Tiamat. The 3 potential counters at the moment.

I’m all for nuking rev out of the fucking game

[stoic stirrup]

Any links to a game where that worked?

Not being snide, I didn't see any, that's why I'm asking

[pine epoch]

The entire tournament

Several rev abusers got booted due to it

[hollow citrus]

I don't get the "don't doom post" people. How bad do things need to get before you can "things are doomed if things don't change"???

I think we're well past that point

[pine epoch]

How are we past that point 🤦🏼‍♂️

Games been out 3 weeks

There is nothing fundamentally wrong. Everything can be numerically tweaked and changed

Some pre teen dramatic retards

[hollow citrus]

Oh idk, maybe all the many complaints about many different aspects of the game? People dropping the game shockingly quick?

Again, at what point do you think you can say "things are doomed if things don't change"?

[pine epoch]

You mean all the people that want free shit handed to them? Oh and the people that game hop new releases? Yeah. Welcome to a fucking mobile game lmao

Some people just parrot everything they hear. Jfc

[hollow citrus]

Oh, you're just here to call people stupid and retards? Cool, good to know you're not a serious person, thanks for making it easy to tell

[pine epoch]

You’re welcome. Come back when you have something relevant to provide

Now go leave feedback about character genders

[stoic stirrup]

I'm not doom posting saying it's not fixable, but I'm saying as someone that spent a lot of time and a decent amount money on the game, loves it and has defended it quit a bit, has all the of the inferno content on farm except rengoku, made it to top 100 of RTA, I would lose all interest in playing the game if they leave it in that state, as would anyone else that likes to play brusiers.

That shells existence as is in PvP is undefendable

You don't even need to build the sets the shell has, you just run Swiftrush swiftraid.

Or the one guy that had bloodbath Rosa lol

[pine epoch]

I agree.

I’m the most anti rev person likely here

One of the 3 rev abusers is in my union and I can’t stand his ass

[stoic stirrup]

I don't blame anyone for building it, it's clearly strong. I just know if they don't change it that's all people will play. Humans in general tend to take the easiest route they can.

[orchid tapir]

Cant you just go speed/light house healer+ atk debuffer? Thats gonna fk revelation player who use speed revelation since you wont ever get one shot by speed revelation

[stoic stirrup]

Then it just becomes a speed race, which isn't healthy for the game

[orchid tapir]

Is it speed race? You dont need super fast healer...just enough speed that after lighthouse trigger to reach 100% turn meter from those 25% bonus

[stoic stirrup]

The ones building it are some of the fastest characters in the game. It's not a problem to live through one revelation user alone it's that they run 3 or 4 of them, all with swiftrush/swiftraid.

Like if it was just rev Freya, that's easy, preban Freya and it's no longer a problem

[orchid tapir]

Isnt that mean you can just run swiftrush/strive/swiftsmite? Im pretty sure after first speed revelation,your healer gonna lap those revelation unit

[pine epoch]

The 330 speed rev units??

[orchid tapir]

You are using lighthouse after all

[pine epoch]

Now what if that first rev unit is kaz

You see the issue?

Support units don’t lose anything

They still support

Kaz still sleeps. Still attack debuff

Freya still buffs and debuffs

Rc77 still guts your team

Celince will still stop your passives

ALL WHILE DOING HALF YOUR HEALTH

With zero buffs or debuffs required to do so

[orchid tapir]

Then use triple res?

[pine epoch]

LOL

Okay

😂😂😂😂

Lemme go back out of this draft rq

And change my modules

Hold up

[orchid tapir]

I mean revelation unit doesnt bring effect acc right?

Healer then can use triple res on right side then

[pine epoch]

And die because they have 12k hp

Gotcha

Really coming together here

[stoic stirrup]

Or not heal because their healing scales off hp

[orchid tapir]

Its speed revelation....they dont 1 shot on first hit

[pine epoch]

You’re right!

They have 4 units

That don’t csre

If you healed

[orchid tapir]

Wdym....lingluo scale with your team might hp

[pine epoch]

How people defend rev as if it’s traditional speed cleave is astonishing

They want justification that they are good with their high win rate is all it is

[orchid tapir]

Wdym def rev...you guys all just doom and gloom at this point for the sake of it,like people not explore all option since no one has infinite resource

[pine epoch]

Lmao

You don’t see a problem

With rev currently?

Rev is a larger issue than anything else in this “PvP game” right now

[orchid tapir]

Yea but there still some possible strat,it just the counter are not easy to test since people dont have resource to build all those

Making revelation unit team is much easier than to.make counter for it

[pine epoch]

So you think supports still supporting, and doing 48% of your entire teams health on turn 1 with no buffs or debuffs is fine

[orchid tapir]

Because it just swiftrush+swiftsmite

[pine epoch]

Gotcha

Their kits definitely are balanced around being able to do that

Couldn’t agree more

[stoic stirrup]

Yeah let's not even mention that at any point they can pivot away from revelation after the first two picks

[pine epoch]

Or change modules around

Because turn order

Doesn’t natter

[stoic stirrup]

Or still fit two normal openers there, including Tsukiyo (which as attack buff)

[pine epoch]

There is zero strategy that needs to go into it

Have immunity against my rc77 debuffer? Dont care I don’t need his debuffs

Your entire team just dies 🙂

[stoic stirrup]

Lol

[pine epoch]

Absolute joke

[winged inlet]

or maybe the people here are complaining because they actually researched and tested a "counter" by the enemy supp deleting half ure tanks hp

ure just assuming ppl here are jumping to conclusion without looking for an answer

[abstract basin]

Well I dont think they've really done a good job at countering these stuff then because I struggled against players that actually have these counters ready

People are just drafting turn 2 without anticleave measures and expecting to survive

And they're crying for nerfs bc their playstyle gets countered by it its so shameless

[tulip wave]

Anticleave measures: viper tiamat, hp, def, bloodbath, dmg reduction dupes, dmg reduction shells, Yea all of them useful for revelation

[abstract basin]

Not to mention people are still classifying units 'supports' when the last time I checked, i dont see anything in the game labeling units like freya as support

Don't get how people can cry about how bad rev with how strong bloodbath and sustain is currently in this game

[pine epoch]

You’re such a clown 😂😂😂

Delusional asf

[vital apex]

I don't think I've seen someone so disingenuous in a long time lmao

Makes sense that the whole tourney stopped for 2 hours cause he tried to change his modules

[tulip wave]

Bro alr got a name in the community

[abstract basin]

It was more like everyone complaining caused the whole tourney to be stopped for 2 hours. Tournament officials ruled a rematch and a rematch was offered and I go back to my previous modules but he declined because he still couldnt win since all my units still would outspeed

[vital apex]

Why were they complaining, brother?

Oozing sheisty out of every pore I stg

[abstract basin]

If you seen the ruling it was very unclear regarsing changing modules but the ref stated to rematch with my previous day modules but everyone wanted me to be dq

But lets be real no one wanted to face me bc of how strong I was

[vital apex]

Unclear in the same way Freya is clearly a DPS because there are no official unit typings in the game and so Rev spam is clearly an intended and healthy function that isn't driving an overly polarized meta and damaging the health of the scene

You got weird definitions of clear!

[stoic stirrup]

Nah he knows exactly whats intended and what isn't, he just doesn't want to lose out on the cheese strategy he's abusing to win

Anything else he says is just nonsense

[abstract basin]

If you've ever played e7 I could compare freya to ran as that character would be considered a dps but he gives immunity and does aoe dmg and debuffs

Same way as freya gives her team attack buffs and does aoe dmg

[abstract basin]

I would say abusing when its still a struggle vs bloodbath, faster players, and other strong defense shells. Nerfing rev would create a very long and stall out meta and pretty much kill cleave

My last game of ews i played against a rev cleaver that was faster than me and I won bc I have counters to rev

[vital apex]

I don't know how to break this to you, but an RGB support unit isn't supposed to def buff, atk buff, drop a unique debuff, cleanse, give vamp, turn boost, turn drain, and also do half of an enemy unit's HP

[stoic stirrup]

They can nerf bloodbath a bit too idc, but pretending rev cleave is how cleave should function is silly. Cleave needs setup, and amazing gear, that's how it's balanced. Rev does not need setup, and only cares about speed

[abstract basin]

I mean if its a problem for you in drafts you can always build one yourself or preban it its an option for you ij the game that no one is stopping anyone from doing

[abstract basin]

Not always the case some units you do need setup bc their base speed is low. What do you do in a acenario where your high speed rev units gets taken or banned? Well you need units like lily tsuki mio to boost them up

Try building a rev unit like rosa yeli as fast as common openers with high base speed

[stoic stirrup]

Why do that, those units on rev are fine

It's the Freya, Kaz, Rc, Turandot, etc that are the issue

Units where their kits are not balanced around doing 48% HP in addition to everything else

[abstract basin]

Idk about you but as a rev cleaver my freya has never made it through draft in a lot of games she is always prebanned, picked, or postbanned. So where's my setup if my opener is unusable

Doesnt my draft falls apart if my units gets taken or I get outsped?

[stoic stirrup]

Yeah if you get outsped, and that's the problem

[abstract basin]

Its like you need setups still to enable them

[stoic stirrup]

You counter speed with speed

That's not a good balance

[abstract basin]

Not true there's always counterplay

[stoic stirrup]

I'm not saying bruisers also shouldn't be balanced, but speed being the only stat that matters is not a well balanced PvP game

[abstract basin]

I mean its still winnable if you're slower you just need to be creative

Final game of ews I drafted vero to counter this rev cleaver and I knew I was slower

Instead of crying about these 'problems' how about we come up with solutions for those problems

It makes the game much more interesting especially during drafts

[stoic stirrup]

Your Veronica is faster no?

They didn't get two turns before you used your ult

Otherwise you are dead

[abstract basin]

My vero is like 230 read her sk1

Freya goes she pushes and sets up

This lets my yeli and kazu guaranteed a turn and wrap around to finish hoyan

He sniped hein so hoyan doesnt get stripped and buff blocked

If you were wondering post ban he banned my lily and i banned his messiah

[rose perch]

Only thing i see in feedback section are babies cries.

[stoic stirrup]

Alright, I see it, that's one counter I can agree on. Maybe I will start playing ladder in like 3 or 4 weeks again after I build her and Hoyan and test it out. And maybe then I will change my mind

Regardless of that, I still do not think it's healthy or fun to have supports doing 48% hp as true damage.

I will give and say that's a great counter, but going into that as a Rev player I would just start banning Veronica and picking Hoyan.

Fundamentally you and I disagree, and nothing you say is going to convince me that Freya/(insert supporting character kit) should be doing that much damage.

If the game were older and had more characters that counter strats like this, so it was nothing more than an easily countered cheese strat, I wouldn't mind it as much, but that's really not the case.

And I know you've been saying that nothing in the game says they are support, but let's say for a moment her stats remain the same, chance to land the debuff becomes 100% and ignores any resistance, her S3 multiplier goes to 260, and it becomes 1 hit? Is she still a DPS? No of course not, it's revelation and multhits that turns her into a "damage dealer".

[tulip wave]

Yall getting ragebaited by that dude 😭 🙏

[vital apex]

I'm having the time of my life, he just keeps going

[abstract basin]

I would still welcome this change and still go rev on her. Her kit is suited for cleavers that can utilize buffs and debuffs and so any extra chip damage I can get with her sk3 is good. The only options i see for freya is fast and bulky but she honestly doesnt do much in that case which is why regardless of what changes 4 hits to 1 hits I think rev will be her best in slot shell

[abstract basin]

Say whatever you want but Im just having a meaningful conversation as someone that has experience at the top of the ladder using rev

[tulip wave]

Youre not saying anything useful, you just don't want it to get nerfed with weird arguments which is shameless, even the dude who was this thread against immediatly said it should be nerfed for pvp

[abstract basin]

What about my argument is weird to you? Dont you realize how bad it is for the game if this gets nerfed?

[tulip wave]

Is it going to be worse for the game that comps that need 0 skill ups that are beating normal comps with a lot of invesment stop beating them? Yea i don't think so, even if the argument is "bruisers are op" just tune them down too if thats the case

[abstract basin]

Rev also needs just as much if not more investment to beat bruisers. Bruisers have access to 2 different defensive shells but people are just not utlizing them

[pastel mirage]

Bro if they nerf revelation xiada will become weak 😓

[abstract basin]

Id argue rev takes more investment thank bruisers to win btw

[tulip wave]

In what world a comp that works with just swiftrush swiftraid speed/crit with no skill ups requires the same effort as a bruiser or traditional cleave

[abstract basin]

Think about how many crit% piece you need though let alone with speed on it

[tulip wave]

2?

[abstract basin]

Yes per unit

And people can easily just preban, postban, or take it from you

Now what do you do?

You need to build more than 1

Also skill ups are important too

[tulip wave]

Yea and what do you think bruisers build? Air? In a bruiser you look for hp def speed crit rate crit dmg sometimes eff acc sometimes res, how is that even comparable ffs

[abstract basin]

I have speed skill ups for my rev units

[tulip wave]

Well, it's not like something that happen to all of us? 😭 🙏

[abstract basin]

I mean sure but its literally the same as rev we're looking for very specific pieces

Not to mention the amount of speed checking i have to do for all my rev units

[tulip wave]

Wow thats crazy, 😆 You farm the same one over and over and just roll for the speed while i gotta farm almost all of the shell bosses thresholds too to build mine and then roll in all of their stats to look for decent stuff

[abstract basin]

I mean its kinda hard to look for red shadowdash but I also have bruisers built too its legit the same

[worldly ember]

Why nerfing reve would be bad for the game?

On its not intended abusers of course

[rigid anchor]

Easy solution is to split PvE and PvP effects. If a skill/animus/gear/shell is too strong in PvP it should be nerfed on the PvP side only. A lot of games do these. Now I’m not in the know how on how hard this will be to implement but imo it is best to not piss off both crowds or making it harder to tackle PvE endgame because of PvP. This usually splits the community and just builds unnecessary animosity between these 2 types of players.

[subtle blaze]

Fix your fucking game devs

[abstract basin]

It'll lead to a very stall and sustain meta but also it would be bad for those that invested their time and resources only for it to be nerfed.

Its hard enough to cleave already when theres things like bloodbath, lighthouse, vero, ect. And nerfing it would kill it

[worldly ember]

you can balance pve and seperately at least the numbers which wouldnt be to hard confusing

[iron nymph]

Wrong. Rev does TRUE damage, ignore Bloodbath.

Rev needs to be nerfed to 2.5% per hit in PvP and stay as in PvE

[abstract basin]

Test it yourself bloodbath mitigates it. Ive played a lot of games vs bloodbath and I can assure you it works

[iron nymph]

I'm using freya/kazuyo on rev in PvP, I dont play summit arena too much i'm only in diamond 1, I mostly play on weekend fearless arena, but so far i've ever only lost once to someone who outspeed my freya, I've encountered tons of bloodbath units and 2 rev units will always one shot their team

and as a Revelation player, I can assure you it needs a nerf

Else the meta will always be: who has the fastest set + 2 rev units wins

[grand pivot]

A lot of people are saying bloodbath is the answer tho

[pastel sparrow]

there is no defence of how rev is now in pvp, it's a great shell for pve but what it's doing in pvp is absolutely cheeks, and no amount 'counters'/mental gymnastics changes how toxic it is for the game

[grand pivot]

Mostly high rank players

[iron nymph]

Strive + disruptor unit is the answer imo, if you dont disrupt turn 1 you're 100% dead

[grand pivot]

Just to be clear I don’t support rev in pvp I’m just saying what others have been saying

[iron nymph]

for instance a timat on swiftrush + strive that cuts their team and taunt them may win you the game, but else bloodbath isn't enough

[grand pivot]

What disruptive unit do you have in mind

[pastel sparrow]

i realise the timing, i wasn't talking to anyone specific just leaving my input 👍

[iron nymph]

message just above

[grand pivot]

Idk about strive doing anything for tiamat tho

Wouldn’t it be better to just anti cleave with tiamat?

[iron nymph]

Obol could work as well with the skill 3 stuns

[grand pivot]

Build hp bloodbath and when she gets a turn nuke enemy team in god mode

[iron nymph]

Anything that can Cut/CC turn 1

[stoic stirrup]

Cleave should be difficult against bruisers, that is the counter to cleave lol. Tank down/Brusiers are what keeps the game lasting longer than two turns max.

Unless there is a massive gear difference or they are trying to race you, you shouldn't be deleting your opponent in one turn.

[slender frost]

People’s main problem isn’t revelations so much but the amount of damage it does WITH the speed you can get. Getting chunked for 50% damage at 300+ speed is not healthy especially since you can just draft multiple of them. If the damage they were putting out was this with full dps gear (ie. 190-200 speed or whatever) almost no one would be complaining because they were built to do the dps and not a cheese shell while also having insane speed

[neat lion]

Just use Proper pvp gear and not cry about revelation. It can be easily countered by Bloodbath

Then again 99% people cant farm aurora so....

[stoic stirrup]

Except it 2 shots your entire bloodbath team including viper. Next false take without actually building characters?

You can even see this on the video from the OP lol

[neat lion]

Did he have enough hp and defense ?

[stoic stirrup]

It's true damage

That scales off of your hp

[neat lion]

yeah but its capped by attack.

that said it did hit it a bit to hard i use rev freya and she does not hit nearly as hard against top 100 ppl

And she is build max attack and 100% crit

They could buff bloodbath set a bit and it would solve an issue but duno wish i knew how much gear that freya had because mine is not hitting that hard and is using full 3 set gear with revelation etc

[pine epoch]

Bb buff isn’t the answer.

Bb and rev both need to be taken down a peg or 3

[stoic stirrup]

Yeah, I would absolutely be fine with BB being nerfed a bit so long as Rev is reasonable and not what it currently is (in PvP)

[neat lion]

That never gonna happen as its rock paper scissors gameplay design here. At best expect BB buff its easiest solution. Either way will see.

[worldly ember]

PVP should be about decision making during fight instead of speedchecking who goes first with rev

[neat lion]

Well knowing devs I would not be surprised if it will be some roundabaout solution. They cant straight up nerf revelation or they can just as well remove it if they did it. Also majot stuff like that wont happen before RTA season end

so it will be a while.

[worldly ember]

y you are sadly right

[slender frost]

Sir let's do a little bit of math shall we? Let's assume that a freya has 3k attack (this is extremely low btw not to mention she also gives herself attack buff), but let's just assume 3k attack being extremely generous here on the defending side. 180% of 3k is a maximum cap of 5,400. Now she hit's 4 times so that is 21,600 damage total (just revelation damage) so in those 4 hit's she's essentially going to max hit everyone (48% max hp damage total) anyone that is below 43,200 hp. Now let's scale that up to 4k (still kind of low btw) now the max per hit is 7,200 for a total of 28,800 which means she will hit 48% (just rev damage) to anyone below 57,600 hp

The "ideal" solution imo is that it caps at 12% with a higher required attack scaling or heck make it/add cdmg scaling to hit that 12%. No one complains about the 190 speed rosa/massiah/yeli hitting for that hard/harder and im sure no one will complain if a freya hit's that hard if they built freya with pure dps gear. The current issue is that Freya/Celince/Kazuyo/etc. hit that hard WHILE ALSO HAVING 300+ speed. If the scaling to get the current damage was harder to achieve ie. they have to gimp speed to like what a pure dps build currently is to get the same current damage then a lot of the frustrations with revelations would be gone

This change also only would affect PvP and not so much PvE (cept maybe those revelation users in doki)

[vital apex]

The change would necessarily be for PvP only if one were made or the whole ship sinks

[pine epoch]

Yeah PvP only. IMO, it should be nerfed to 5% of max hp in PvP

So dps units will be the only ones using them

Because they will still hit hard asf and do an additional 15-20% of ur hp as bonus dmg which I think is fair

I have no issues with the dps units actually dpsing

“Oh but it doesn’t say support anywhere!” Kick rocks

How dense and naive you gotta be to actually believe that lol

[viscid jasper]

I personally fine with revelation 'support' in pvp cuz there's still a downside to it, ppl with revelation are squishy and slow as heck cuz they have to build crit rate and atk and there's no swiftrush matrix on it, its just like any other dps. you just need to outspeed them for example with your lily and massiah and its over (well sadly your lily is banned, just bring another opener). just my personal take on this

[pine epoch]

Yeah you dunno what you’re talking about

The people running rev are running 330+ speed rc77’s that are going to do 48% of ur hp without buffs or debuffs

[viscid jasper]

330 speed with revelation? damnn

let me see

im truly curious about their built, cuz the one that i have fought are slow as heck

they rely on their opener

[pine epoch]

Yeong runs 7 rev units

All 300-330

[viscid jasper]

damn must have been really lucky with the speed roll

[winged inlet]

revelation has swift raid

[viscid jasper]

I know, what I said is swiftrush

[winged inlet]

well getting swiftrush + swift raid is the easiest thing ever

[viscid jasper]

ahhh so that's the build

[viscid jasper]

sheesh that crazy

the one I fought are nothing compared to this

[winged inlet]

u lose 50%+ on all ure team members hp on real damage

doesn't matter if it's hp stacked tiamat or def stacked holden

[abstract basin]

Ya ive optimized my setups which gives me more success than the other rev players

[viscid jasper]

yeah i can see how that's a problem if someone has that much speed

[abstract basin]

Obviously if you're invested and geared as i am ofc its going to not look balanced

[winged inlet]

it's a problem period

[abstract basin]

But then again there's still counter play to it

[winged inlet]

if u care about the pvp in this game u want this to get balanced

[abstract basin]

But nobody want acknowledge for some reason

[winged inlet]

otherwise trust me the pvp won't last long

[viscid jasper]

I applause you tho, that's truly creative build

never thought of that

[abstract basin]

Ty

[winged inlet]

🤦

[hollow citrus]

Bro if they nerf it your account 💀

[grand pivot]

They won’t be nerfing it until the end of the season anyways

[abstract basin]

Ehh not even that stressed I have bruisers built too

[vernal vector]

Nerfs and Buffs happen all the time in other PvP Gacha games, that's what you're signing up for even if you spend real money. The game has to have balance patches

[pine plover]

Man I really don't care about this anymore. Game has lot bigger issues with it's dog shit inferno difficulty.

[proud fox]

Bloodbath strive will absolutely dump on rev spammer. Try it yourself

[silver wagon]

I don't think u get cr for every hit no?

[visual ermine]

you do yeah

[neat lion]

Strive is seriously underused in pvp

[tulip wave]

Funny part is that strive aint even getting past Freya as she can boost 8% and send you back 8% thats more than strive 10%

[inland quartz]

I think they have bigger issues atm.

[humble fossil]

Actual question, if revelation is so broken/strong, why do so many people say high end rta is dominated by bruiser/tank teams? And is high rta being dominated by rev or bruiser teams?

[pallid hamlet]

It was found out that rev can be countered by sending full bloodbath teams with amber or lighthouse, since unintuitively bloodbath somehow makes true dmg from rev do less dmg. But this requires quite massive investment into comps that dont do nearly as well versus things like cc spam.

So currently the meta is kind of a triangle which is created by rev existing. Bloodbath spam preys on rev, unless the rev is just built insane/bloodbath gamer isnt up to snuff ofc.

CC spam preys on bloodbath gamers as their slower gameplay can easily be overcome by just not letting them ever take a turn and waiting out the healing timer of rta (amber will heal basically nothing if its gone long enough in the game) and ligthouse won't proc from the small amounts of dmg your kazuyos and obols do.

Rev on the other hand preys on anything that isnt bloodbath spam utterly, making anything else unplayable really (except the two prior mentioned as they create a space for themselves because of rev)

Currently 3 out of 5 in top 5 are rev gamers, 1 is cc and 1 is bloodbath (subject to change ofc but that was the last time I looked) Im putting myself in the cc category but I play some bloodbath stuff too, I do a bit of a middle ground between the two, which can be both a benefit and a detriment.

So in my honest opinion? Rev is too format warping to stay this way forever, but it's not currently unplayable, just very strange and makes building unintuitive for newer players trying to get to higher ranks in many cases. My suggestion is keep it as is but remove swiftraid from the shell, that would make revelation a good tank buster for cleave players but not just a thing you can slap on fast supports and call it a day. Although that would probably still be good, just making you need a pusher.

Also please XD let me play the game, when you hit top 10 it becomes so hard to find games that its just not worth playing anymore, its rare I find 1 or 2 games per day when I q for hours at a time.... let me lose like 40 points and gain 5 idc, I just want to play because I enjoy the game. Idk how its calculated right now but it feels to me like there is a cap at 200 rating below you, and then you literally cannot match into anyone lower, that makes my range currently 8 people.

[orchid tapir]

Yea...taking out swiftrush from it sounds like good idea....its not like the one who use rev using swiftrush matrix for PvE content

[pallid hamlet]

@compact dove Just wanted to update you on current state of rev etc from my perspective aswell as notify you of my plight about rta playing, hope you don't mind too much as I see this post has gained a lot of traction. I'm guessing the team has got a lot to think about after the ews qualifier being as it was, best wishes.

Also small sidenote, when you queue for so long you usually just go about your day and check the phone every so often, this makes it so when I actually find games I usually have no clue who I'm fighting against as the popup only lasts for a little bit and when I notice im in its already on ban screen, so I just ban blind, please put opponents name in ban screen ty :)

also make a little noise when you find games, lost once cuz somth happened and I just had no clue I found a game cuz I couldnt look at phone

[vital apex]

Taking out swiftraid seems like a really elegant solution

[orchid tapir]

Wait not swiftraid...swiftrush,the only 6/6 set that give attack is swiftraid

[grand pivot]

I completely disagree with this

Especially for players who reach high rank

Given the games especially small playerbase

If people can just target ban and early pick your entire comp what’s the point

I prefer playing completely blind

I get that knowing your opponent is also a skill but I think that should remain more for tournaments

[winged inlet]

nah ban/pick need to be blind 100%

tourneys are different cuz both players will prob adjust before the match

[tulip wave]

You can actually see who yo playing against right now, just for a short amount of time at the start it makes no sense you can see it for like 2 seconds, too easy to miss, i agree it should be blind but if not they should at least make it like he is saying

[pallid hamlet]

I actually think learning what your opponents are using and creating little minimetagames can be really interesting personally, I think it can be really fun matching the same person 3-4 times trying to figure out optimal bans and picks

[vital apex]

That and the speed are why you take it out

[jade tartan]

another thing that community barely cares about until it affects them

now theres more and more revelation nerf people coming out haha

[bleak dragon]

even on bloodbath+all HP% modules, 6* lvl 50, red shell passive hp%, a freya with Rev will do over 50% hp in 1 shot

[pallid hamlet]

my sania currently takes about 45% but yes its about that

[bleak dragon]

not sure where you're getting this from

ok so

bloodbath isnt countering rev

[pallid hamlet]

but it is though

[bleak dragon]

because every rev user right now is using at least 2x rev units

[pallid hamlet]

I just won against a rev player with my sania tiamat

who had 3x rev units

and amber bloodbath made it ez clap

I just ate the dmg and moved on

lighthouse works just aswell cuz u cut and just win

my bloodbath viper lived 2 full rev atks from celince rc77 and only died to yeli

[bleak dragon]

are you cakehokori?

[pallid hamlet]

Im bread

in game

rank 1

[bleak dragon]

what lol

what server is this

definitely not server 1

[cunning wadi]

isnt' bread number 1 in server 1?

[pallid hamlet]

rta bro

im literally rank 1 rta for 2 weeks

[bleak dragon]

ok well i m not talking about the other arena that actually gives rewards

not RTA

[pallid hamlet]

what

no one cares about ai arena

useless game mode

[cunning wadi]

???

yea

rta definitely is useless

u definitely don't get

[pallid hamlet]

u go to mythic and then afk rest of season

[cunning wadi]

1 full PL a month

10 LD summons

a bunch of other shit

def no rewards

[bleak dragon]

RTA gives us a perfect lattice per month?

[pallid hamlet]

and rta is stated by developers to be the endgame of this game, what they focus on

[cunning wadi]

don't u get

[jade tartan]

i mean you can get that just by quitting

[cunning wadi]

10 purchases

[jade tartan]

lol

[cunning wadi]

of fragments

am i delusional?

[pallid hamlet]

If u just want to play ai arena then idk, this post is not for u

[jade tartan]

you dont even have to actively participate in rta to get the rewards tbf

[pallid hamlet]

yes u get 50 fragments

[cunning wadi]

the whole game

isn't for them

LMAO

[cunning wadi]

yea but like

[pallid hamlet]

per month

[cunning wadi]

don't play the game

genuinely

[pallid hamlet]

and 1 lattice fully

for reaching mythic

[cunning wadi]

if ur aim is to not play rta

just quit

[pallid hamlet]

like ews is fully based on rta

[cunning wadi]

and go play a different game

[jade tartan]

i mean rta is boring af right now, lets be honest

[pallid hamlet]

and thats their stated main goal with the game

[cunning wadi]

like im not even trying to push some kind of elitist perspective

[jade tartan]

its prob the most boring meta ive played since gany hathor

[pallid hamlet]

wholeheartedly disagree

im having a lot of fun

[cunning wadi]

its just the truth that this is genuinely a pvp game

the whole point of the game

is to play rta

nothing else matters

[pallid hamlet]

yeah

[quasi maple]

Tbh they just need to cap rev damage in pvp

[pallid hamlet]

thats literally what devs said when they made game

we make it for rta enjoyers

[cunning wadi]

im not saying u should NOT have fun with other content

everything should be fun

[bleak dragon]

this guy out here spamming RTA getting nothing for it

[jade tartan]

youre one of very few, which is obvious by how few people are playing it

[cunning wadi]

but the focus of the game revolves around rta

[cunning wadi]

so u don't play

[jade tartan]

hell even sw meta is better right now lmao

[pallid hamlet]

Im getting fun?

[cunning wadi]

a single multiplayer pvp game?

valorant? league? any fps any moba

anything

[pallid hamlet]

I mean most ppl I know wish they could play more pvp but are stuck in pve

[jade tartan]

those same people would quit in 5 minutes with rev lmfao

[pallid hamlet]

I play rta because I enjoy it and want to learn and get better?

[pallid hamlet]

no?

[jade tartan]

yes lol

the pve is stupid easy

[pallid hamlet]

I mean have u never gotten cleaved before?

[jade tartan]

if you cant figure that out

youre quitting against rev

in 5 seconds

[pallid hamlet]

ur so strange

[bleak dragon]

so bread the mode you suck at, you dont care about even though it gives more rewards than RTA

[cunning wadi]

tbf he's not entirely wrong

[pallid hamlet]

everyone disagress with u about the pve being stupid easy, its like the biggest complaint rn

[jade tartan]

oh no, internet stranger said im strange

brb gonna go cry

[cunning wadi]

he's wrong about pve

[pallid hamlet]

rengo is like

[cunning wadi]

but like

[pallid hamlet]

really hardn to get consistent

for ppl trying hard

[cunning wadi]

if ur genuinely tilting in pve

ur probably gonna get tilted playing against rev

[jade tartan]

a monkey could beat the pve in this game

[cunning wadi]

[pallid hamlet]

ok dude

[cunning wadi]

braindead take

[pallid hamlet]

like, this entire discord disagress with u but sure

x)

[bleak dragon]

@pallid hamlet not in top 100 ethernea arena = nobody cares about this mode

[cunning wadi]

99% of palyers in and out of the discord do as well

[pallid hamlet]

I mean I could push for top 100 but I dont want to?

[quasi maple]

What even is this debate rn. Lmao

[pallid hamlet]

cuz I dont care about the mode?

its just not fun?

[bleak dragon]

lloll

[cunning wadi]

idk

[pallid hamlet]

???

[cunning wadi]

typical

bronze vs person who actually knows what theyre talking about

takes

[pallid hamlet]

I have many friends in top 100 I know their gear, I could do it but??? why care when gear isnt locked and its so much effort

for no fun to me

[bleak dragon]

lolll

[pallid hamlet]

whatever

I shouldnt engage here

[bleak dragon]

ya you have no idea what youre talking about

try fighting people in top 10

then say bloodbath counters rev

[pallid hamlet]

I said I was talking about rta wtf xD

thats the whole point

and ppl run massiah lily only in top 10

sure mass on rev

big deal

[pine plover]

Incorrect. I can't clear all the PvE content.

[bleak dragon]

ok well that's part of the game?

no?

[pallid hamlet]

rank 3 server 1 btw

bloodbath spammer

[jade tartan]

bros like im top 1 so im right youre wrong lul

[bleak dragon]

you're retarded

that's literally me

lmao

[pallid hamlet]

it is?

lmao thats funny

so ur on bloodbath no?

what else could this be

[bleak dragon]

yes exactly

and i can tell you

it does not counter it

[pallid hamlet]

I mean do u use amber tho

and lighthouse

[bleak dragon]

yes?

[pallid hamlet]

ok cool

then u lose to massiah

but win against supports spamming rev

[bleak dragon]

have you fought well built people?

[pallid hamlet]

yes?

xd

Im literally only playing the top 10 of rta when I play, they have well built characters

but its different cuz u cant just stack 4 units to high ends

[bleak dragon]

bro

[pallid hamlet]

so overall gear lvl is a bit worse

[bleak dragon]

these top people in RTA

[pallid hamlet]

but yeah

[bleak dragon]

ive never even seen them

in top 15

[pallid hamlet]

ofc cuz ai arena doesnt matter

and u have to build completely differently

to get high there

compared to rta

[bleak dragon]

ok well i m not talking about RTA

[pallid hamlet]

yeah well I am

so go to a different post pls

[quasi maple]

This thread is about rta

[bleak dragon]

so bloodbath counters weak people

[pallid hamlet]

make ur own post saying ai arena ruined by rev

[bleak dragon]

but not people with good gears

[pallid hamlet]

thatgs fine

[bleak dragon]

got it

[pallid hamlet]

lmao go try playing rta bro

[bleak dragon]

whos got time for that

[pallid hamlet]

the few ppl in ews that were high rank ai arena did not great

cuz its just not the same

[bleak dragon]

it resets in 80 days

[pallid hamlet]

who cares, im playing the game because rta is a gamemode I enjoy

[jade tartan]

enjoys it - been crying about it for 2 weeks

[pallid hamlet]

what

[jade tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/confused-white-persian-guardian-why-gif-8221020141130272422

[pallid hamlet]

where did I cry for 2 weeks

I talked here 3 times I think

Ive been talking and having fun with my guild

[quasi maple]

I literally went from top 50 rta playing against bread to spec for pve cuz I didnt wanna brick inferno for rta this early.

Arena is a lot different due to no draft.

I've done both

I want revelation nerfed in r t a but not in pve

[pallid hamlet]

Yeah I just made sure to make my pve teams use the same units I up for pvp

[quasi maple]

I tried doing that but went messiah

And I didn't want to branch out too much with lattices

[pallid hamlet]

I went massiah too

but I dont really use him anymore in pvp tbh

altho I might have a new build coming

that looks spicy

[quasi maple]

I'm just a cleave player that needs more inferno.Gear that he can't get

[pallid hamlet]

oh yeah, I could never play cleave

my speed is shit lmao

[quasi maple]

I have multiple three hundred speeders without right side special pieces

Inferno is cancer

[pallid hamlet]

yeah I have none of those

only with right side stuff can I do it

[quasi maple]

I have six shells with red speed

I just need inferno to stop hating me

[pallid hamlet]

I have a lot of red speed shells, my gear just isnt rolling speed

also, did ppl completely miss that there was a tournament qualifier for the top 100 or so in rta

and ud get flown out to shanghai if u got top 8? seems good reason to me to play

[quasi maple]

Some people in top 250 got in

The tournament itself was a mess though

Gear swap debacle went crazy

[pallid hamlet]

yeah tell me about it...

dont wanna comment on that cuz too much fire everywhere

x)

[quasi maple]

Exactly

If that dumpster fire was placed in new york, no one would freeze in the cold

[verbal rock]

@jade tartan I think you lost this one. It is just factually correct that Monke canot beat the PvE in this game

[verbal rock]

So does solo Massiah DPS actually beat your def? I have to run 2 DPS to beat your def/win with my def but that's with Yeli. I'm actually curious if Massiah is better against Bloodbath

[bleak dragon]

a well built one with revelation yes

revelation is just too strong, i might as well not even try anything else and just go speed cleave again

[proud fox]

https://tenor.com/view/michael-jackson-comendo-picoca-gif-9669437860846841235

Reading comprehension at 0

[wet finch]

Funny enough tho there is a counter 😂 shields. Revelation damage does not scale of shields, so low hp high def and add a shield and suddenly rev does no damage

Now where the fk are the good shield units that dosnt scale hp

(Dorothy and hellkid 😂)

But yea I’d like the rev damage to just not be true damage, make it be affected by defense and we golden

[pallid hamlet]

that is a cool thought, issue is ud need to outspeed to shield first

and it sounds highly volatile vs other teams

[orchid tapir]

Cant you cut it with lighthouse +strive?

[pallid hamlet]

yeah u can

[verbal rock]

That said, isn't the fix to just... cut revelation with Lighthouse + Strive in the first place?

[pallid hamlet]

yeah I mean just build bb lighthouse strive

and ur gonna do fine

some lighthouse some amber depending on what the unit does

and u beat it

rn

[wet finch]

so light house strive on hellkid 😛 ez def solution haha

[winged inlet]

most players will get stomped by revelation then not touch pvp after

then u can play with the minority hardcore players who put amber and lighthouse plus strive on all their units

sounds better than changing revelation for pvp

[warm grail]

reveletion cant beat bloodbath set, bruisers very strong in late game, you want delete half dps characters and make hardest pve

[grand pivot]

I think it’s more of a farming problem because people can’t really efficiently farm those sets

So lower ranks are stuck with rev abuse while only higher rank players have the means to combat it

[wheat kindle]

I just hope it’s doesn’t mess with the PVE side of revelation bc it is indeed needed on some units 🙏

[orchid tapir]

Well apparenlt they though its in line with design,thia revelation strat

[novel wraith]

not only that but the game pushes you towards oneshotting most content since outsustaining it is nearly impossible for an average player. So naturally you tend to build more dps gear and shells for pve while lighthouse/amber/bloodbath etc is pvp only

[verbal rock]

Revelation is meant to be like this

[indigo niche]

Is lighthouse a good anti-revelation?

[humble fossil]

How do you choose between amber or lighthouse on your bruiser/tanky units?

[proven cape]

Think Lighthouse may work better on Healers that also need to get turn bar to cut between and save the team.

Amber maybe for characters that may do some diference if they keep on the match, like Tiamat, maybe Beyontin

A Amber healer maybe its get to late for it do something.

[iron nymph]

Light house + bloodbath + strive but you're gonna need your whole team on it and something that provide a cheat death like veronica, else you still lose 2-3 animus and game isn't winable regardless

[jade tartan]

its just easier to build revelation and spam it since it will speed up some pve clears too

win or lose fast and move on

meta is shit for 80 days

[warm kite]

U could Also Outspeed their team? U think if Built Messiah with white fang or Built rilmocha with count goes first u wont get team wiped

[covert tendon]

Don’t tell me to build Lighthouse my Inferno Rengo auto is like 4/10 😭

[wicked geyser]

What team do you run? Please don’t say kloss is in there lol

[covert tendon]

Lily + Yeli + Lingluo + Valerian

[wicked geyser]

Oo I gotta try that. Shells? I managed to clear once but i feel that it was because I got lucky with yeli procs

[covert tendon]

Artisan + Rev + Supernova + Gigabyte

[pallid hamlet]

Im currently running 8 min 100% clears its very despair. Vice sania viper holden

gotta do what u gotta do, lighthouse is like the best shell rn

2x artisan 2x amber

[grand pivot]

Working as intended

[cunning wadi]

wait wtf this actually works?

[pallid hamlet]

yes it cant fail

over 200 runs no fail

[cunning wadi]

...

[pallid hamlet]

but 8 min average is disgusting

[cunning wadi]

hmmm

i mean

thats fine

im used to it

i used to do 7 minute auto hoyan

[pallid hamlet]

xdddd

[cunning wadi]

obol + gsania lingluo lily

kill both ads before killing boss

faster post nerf cuz can just kill 1 add before boss but its still pretty painful lol

[cunning wadi]

are the ambers optional

cuz i don't ahe them built

and do they all need to be running counter as shown

or are the sets a bit flexible>

Also what skill levels?

Not questioning you btw^ im genuinely gonna try it so need to know exact details HAHAHA

[pallid hamlet]

not really

they make it 100%

cuz both sania and vice die sometimes

no idea how it is without

bramble is needed on basically all of them yes

sania for more turns, viper for more ults

vice is the most needed

holden the least I guess

he is just on rahu gear

just build a dmg holden

[cunning wadi]

right

have u tried subbing in bloodbath massiah on rev for holden?

[pallid hamlet]

all are 555 but holden just needs 511 he is there for dmg and cuz he doesnt die too easily

[cunning wadi]

would make the run so muhc faster i think

[pallid hamlet]

my massiah is shit

[cunning wadi]

ah

[pallid hamlet]

so no

[cunning wadi]

whats ur massiah at

1/1/5?

[pallid hamlet]

I dont have dmg bloodbath pieces

415

[cunning wadi]

ahhhh

oh

[pallid hamlet]

but 0 dupe

[cunning wadi]

mine is only 1/1/5 lol

btw just in general

is the prio for massiah

4/1/5?

i thought it'd be 4/5/5 or 1/5/5

[pallid hamlet]

I think so yes but I dont know enough, I just use him for doki

[cunning wadi]

ah

ic

[pallid hamlet]

i never farmed terror so my dps gear is ok at best

I just sit in doki and aurora plus shells

have a barely functioning furyedge set xd

[cunning wadi]

right yea

same

bbditing prolly wouldnt' work either

i wonder

khloros...

[maiden pivot]

415 if incould reset mass

[simple lotus]

is that really true?
my units that are on bloodbath now take about half the damage they were taking before from one rev burst

it's very noticeable, my Ling who is not on bloodbath can sometimes get nearly one shot while Sania survives with 50% hp from the same skill, both around 50k max hp

[snow cipher]

afaik bloodbath should reduce the damage from the skill but not from revelation

i don't think any form of dr pve wise reduces rev damage

[iron nymph]

For people having issues with bloodbath, get Tiamat, Green sania, Obol, veronica all on bloodbath/strive with lighthouse... If you know your opponent is drafting Rev it's a pretty good match up for it, lighthouse + strive with make all of your units cuts infront on the 2nd rev unit, obol AoE stun, green sania heals, tiamat taunt and veronica plays last and puts invincibility on the team. There are ways to counter Revelation and the Very best way is bloodbath + strive + lighthouse as Rev are AoE units multi hits it will trigger Strive on all of your units + Lighthouse 20% attack bar boost, you're cutting regardless and can take over the game. Point is any disruptor with lighthouse + bloodbath + strive is the way to go against rev users

All of those units for me are 5 star with not so good modules and they work perfectly fine

[cold dove]

Wouldn't veronica go first

because her s1 passive

[iron nymph]

I would share my builds here but everything is all over the place for guild content rn, but it looks like this
Obol - Fastest unit with Bloodbath/strive cores are hp% hp% Accuracy
sania - 2nd fastest with bloodbath/strive cores are hp% hp% hp%
Tiamat is 3rd fastest with bloodbath/strive cores are hp% hp% hp%
Veronica is the last in turn order with bloodbath/strive cores are hp% hp% hp%
All of them have lighthouse with most having pretty bad rolls either purple or gold, didnt really invest in those heavily.

This team work extremely well when I know my opponent is playing Rev.

[runic saddle]

boutchs has been warned

Reason: Duplicated text

[iron nymph]

I like her being last as my team gets the invinciblity for 1 turn incase I dont stun/taunt everything

Also Xyro, why tf did the bot even warn me

[cold dove]

U sent

Bloodbath/strive

over nad over

dont worry about it lol

[iron nymph]

Ah makes sence, well I wasn't trying to "duplicate text" just explain the build haha

[cold dove]

nah its all good

Its just in place so if someone gets warned a ton we can see 🙂

[iron nymph]

Gotcha 😄

[cold dove]

Its not an actually "warn" or anything

Just a warning

[simple lotus]

how does it work if they have rev + Kraken or Mio? you have no immunity

[wide nest]

yea i used veronika a few times before and i prefered bulwark instead of strive since her s1 is like a cracked strive

[iron nymph]

You draft accordingly. I'm just saying this is my core units against rev users

[wide nest]

but yea if they cc ur other units it also gets annoying but theres some counterplay still at least, and more strats will come out as we can build more characters

[iron nymph]

Ofc I have more units built incase of specific counters needed

I'm not gonna display all my strats here, get creative 🙂 but i'm just helping with how to have a chance against them atleast.

[simple lotus]

does Strive proc on multi hits multiple times ?

[iron nymph]

Yes

[simple lotus]

so Rosa would be able to proc up to 6 times ?

[iron nymph]

That is also a good point. Truth is I needed strive as my vero is giga slow, i'm talking almost no speed beside the speed from shell lol

[iron nymph]

Correct

[simple lotus]

alright thanks for the tips, I'll have to give it a try

[iron nymph]

No problems mate

[iron nymph]

TLDR, you dont need the specific units that I mentioned, just think of units that can cut in with lighthouse + strive and that can disrupt their team

Truth is rev users are EXTREMELY Weak, literally no HP at all they're all about bursting, if you cut in and disrupt their team you're almost always winning

[simple lotus]

I get it, I also had some success with bloodbath Tiamat/Sania/Ling/Viper comps but didn't know Strive works like that

[iron nymph]

I don't think a lot of people realised the potential of strive against AoE Multi hit units yet

[simple lotus]

although I went with a speedy setup on Ling and Viper

[iron nymph]

it's so good in PvP scenario

[simple lotus]

this is why I think bloodbath reduces rev damage
damage is done by Freya S3 with revelation
Sania on bloodbath 47k hp
Ling 47khp, doesn't have bloodbath
Viper bloodbath 24k
if bloodbath didn't reduce rev damage I would expect the damage done to Sania to be closer to Ling but as you can see the difference is quite large

[winged inlet]

Tbh I'm not sure if bloodbath reduce the real dmg from rev or not

But it will for sure reduce the non rev dmg

The Freya is still building atk and crit so she will land some dmg from her skill

[merry field]

I just tested on NPC heinrich and his s3 did not proc my strive 3 times

[hollow citrus]

You advance the same amount when hit 3x or 1x?

[merry field]

ye 10% everytime

maybe followups like yeli can proc multiple times

[quartz gyro]

So @iron nymph ‘s information is incorrect?

[young star]

Elemental advantage

[simple lotus]

idk if that makes up more than twice the damage, not impossible I guess

[simple lotus]

regardless.. the result is that they do a lot less damage
rev doesn't feel that dangerous with multiple bloodbath/lighthouse users on the team

even my 24k hp Viper can tank it easily and Lingluo can cut in after the first one and heal up

[wicked geyser]

That’s what I run. Having success with viper + rahu + viper personally. Only rahu is on bloodbath here and I’m typically banning massiah

[simple lotus]

I should put my Rahu on bloodbath as well cause he feels really squishy

[young star]

Yeh BB is definitely the way to go in countering Rev, I was just pointing out the massive difference in damage comparing Sania and Ling could also be related to elemental disadvantage.

[iron nymph]

Mhhm I though it was my units get pushed literally from half bar to cutting first when on that set, perhaps I'd need to do more testing in a fun room with a friend

[fiery tree]

Revelation is counterable but sucks to fight when you are unprepared or they ban the correct units

[slender frost]

it's a single instance of the skill. Multi hit does not proc strive so things like rosa or freya s3 will only give u 10%. The exception is something like yeli where her passive is triggering multiple INSTANCES of s1 which is why you get strive proc for each hit from yeli. Rosa (as example) is 1 instance with 3 hits (s1), but yeli would be be 3 instances 1 hit each (using same amount of hits as Rosa for clarity) and that's what strive procs off of the number of instances not number of hits

[bright tapir]

You dont really see people out here trying to counter white Fang just cause of how "oppressive" a shell is

[fiery tree]

I agree that rev right now sucks to deal with esp when they bring 3-4 of them and a booster. But saying there's no counter is wrong and saying that other shells don't need counters is also wrong. Artisan stacking, alicorn, gigabyte etc all require their own counters as well.

[stoic stirrup]

Allicorn is a terrible shell

No one is going to try and counter Allicorn, you simply do not need to

If it prioritized hard cc it would be usable, but as is it's worthless. Way better off using a good shell and running immunity

As for Gigabyte and Artisan, I'm not sure what you mean by they require counters? CC is strong vs Gigabyte and strippers are good vs Artisan. You are not stacking 4 cc characters or 4 strippers/buff block to "counter" them.

Rev requires a specific build and specific shells on healers or Brusiers. No other shell requires that level of investment to deal with. Even then it's still not a free win by any means.

The fix is pretty simple. They just need to make Rev scale based on the enemy max hp (the actual number). That way it's still strong in PvE vs bosses with their giant HP pools, but against players it would be a lot more reasonable.

It would also make it so Rev would keep its identity as a tank buster shell, but against characters with smaller hp pools, it's not dealing 48% of their HP.

This would mean playing against rev spammers, you could just go normal damage dealers as a counter, or def scaling brusiers.

[fiery tree]

Alicorn with high res is very meta to cleanse any debuff that gets through your res. Gigabyte was used to counter rev by cutting between the rev users and surviving (since if you survive the burst you basically just win) and gigabyte stacking is really good for getting around not having a healer vs teams that dont have reliable strips

[stoic stirrup]

Hmm these are some odd takes I have to say. In my experience none of what you said is true, but I'll just leave it at that. Though I am guessing you meant artisan stacking is good without a healer vs a team with no strip. I agree, but thats not even close to how strong Rev is

[twilit oxide]

Nah it’s false. If you test it out bloodbath reduces the white numbers (true damage) from revelation.

You can test it out by getting a friend to go from a 9 bb to 12 bb with similar stats. The 9 bb will take more damage from revelation

[fiery tree]

I can only speak on high RTA. I don't have much knowledge below masters. But I encounter rev a lot as a tank down player and I'm still able to beat mythic players using 4x rev. If they nerf rev they would have to nerf bloodbath or cleave wouldn't be able to do anything in RTA

[simple lotus]

thanks for confirming
I also tried to record it although it's hard to see with how the game displays numbers
Ling no bb, same hp as Sania who is on bb
Ling receies only 5.8k white ticks while Sania has some 5.6k and one 2.8k tick
but wasn't 100% sure what is going on

[stoic stirrup]

Yeah I hover in and just on the edge of top 100 in RTA, and I can say with certainty Ive never played against someone using Allicorn AND stacking rez lol. I could see someone doing that on one unit, and they only use that against heavy cc comps. Or maybe even a Doki with that and bloodbath, but you are not stacking Alicorn + rez and no one is trying to counter it. It's a bad shell. I would take almost any other shell over that and just run bulwark even if it's not on the shell itself. I have one I built, and the only reason I use it is because I don't have a better alternative built for the unit it's on.

As far as Rev goes, yes you can beat them with Lighthouse, Amber, and Bloodbath. You were trying to say Gigabyte, Artisan, and Alicorn all require counters like rev does and that's just not true.

As to the cleave being weak, this is just my opinion but cleave should be weak when there is not a huge gear disparity or perfect setup, especially against tank down and brusiers. It's a play style that is inherently toxic as only one player gets to have fun when cleave is involved. Works great for Arena because who cares about arena. RTA is another story. The average match should take longer than the draft.

[fiery tree]

I mean most of the top bruisers in the top 10-20 are in the guild with me and we all run high res units with alicorn especially things like sania or doki.

Yeon typing is one of the best rev players and we fight him all the time

[abstract basin]

I dont believe that cleave should necessarily be weak. In fact I believe cleave should be strong and is healthy for the game for cleave to be strong.

It creates interesting metas and triangles for how people build towards defending cleave and playing other standard or turn 2 players

[stoic stirrup]

I think it's fine to have cleave metas

[abstract basin]

Need more people to queue in mythic man ong

[stoic stirrup]

But I don't think in general cleave should always be strong

[fiery tree]

High res units counter if you have a mio, kazuyo or Heinrich that you can't ban out in draft or pick around. Cleave is good for the game to prevent tank vs tank matches taking 20 minutes

If they nerf rev bloodbath tank vs tank would be meta

Which I don't really want tbh

[abstract basin]

No it should always be strong

[stoic stirrup]

Lol

[fiery tree]

Cleave should be a threat at any stage I agree

[abstract basin]

This and cc would be prevalent as well

Id rather lose the game in 3 turns than be endlessly cc'd for 20min

[hollow citrus]

What are yall expecting? Slight rev nerf? Rev untouched? Rev gutted?

If they do overreact 100% fear we'll get a miserable, 10 min game tank meta

[abstract basin]

I think the meta is perfect the way it is imo

[fiery tree]

The biggest problem is rev working on units that are supposed to be supports. IMO if you let the revelation Rosa move you should be punished but a super fast Freya shouldn't be able to hit your entire team for 50% through bloodbath

[abstract basin]

If anything, new shells + new units, maybe buffing unused chars to shake up the meta would be my approach

[fiery tree]

So if you wanna make it hit the same for DPS units and nerf it on support I 100% can get behind it but gutting revelation isn't the answer

[robust fern]

yeah problem is rev dmg not being mitigated by bloodbath

[stoic stirrup]

I think they won't touch it, will nerf bloodbath, and nerf lighthouse.

And then they get one more season from me lol

[hollow citrus]

Is it not? It's been tested and after you take the 20% of max hp the rev dmg is still 100%?

[fiery tree]

Legit just need to make rev have a lower percentage damage but increase the attack ceiling to make it do the same damage for units with high attack and lower for units that just use it for support

[abstract basin]

Also I think its bad for the game to nerf shells esp after farming them only for it to get nerfed it would not feel good for the playerbase

[fiery tree]

Freya/Heinrich/kazuyo shouldn't do that much damage with rev

[abstract basin]

Like ur telling me if rev gets nerfed im just fucked or what

[hollow citrus]

I don't get the impression they really care about things like that. They had plenty of time to fix "bugs" during the many betas, but indirectly nerfed several units a week into launch

At least shells you can sell. Many players almost got bricked until they finally, after tons of complaining, allowed for a few resets

[twilit oxide]

@hollow citrus @robust fern

Like the image is right there a couple scrolls up

[hollow citrus]

The hero we need

[stoic stirrup]

What they should do is make it scale off enemy HP and not hp% true damage. No reason Rev should be taking tanks and damage dealers to half health with just the shell alone

If it's supposed to counter tanks make it that

Not what it currently is

[hollow citrus]

Idk if that fixes it. It doing real dmg is necessary to get around high def PVE

[twilit oxide]

It’s quite bold that people are trying to spread miss info when the info is right next to their comment

[abstract basin]

Yes but im selling for like a fraction of what i invested this is not included how many times ive rerolled for my subs

[hollow citrus]

That ends up nerfing it hard in PVE or leaving things unchanged, just a different formula to basically the same result

[stoic stirrup]

Bosses have insane high hp

So it would still be great vs them

[hollow citrus]

Yea it still sucks real bad, but at least you have some option 🤷‍♂️

[fiery tree]

Like I said. Most people are using revelation in PvE on damage dealers with high ATK so if they nerfed it for lower ATK users like Freya which is the biggest problem in pvp it would be fine

Like obel, kazuyo, RC, hein aren't building high attack since they are CC or debuff units

But they still do 50% of your hp

[hollow citrus]

Still will be a big nerf for many in PVE, which people will absolutely hate. People are already sick of the PVE difficulty, making that worse isn't going to go well. Plus, nerfing it will make those who invested in rev pissed. That's a lot of pissed off people just to tweak RTA some

There's really no good solution other than have it work different in PVE and PVP

[abstract basin]

But realistically rev isnt an issue at all when other stuff in the game clearly counters it. Its just people chose not to build anti cleave so they just auto lose thats how cleave works

[hollow citrus]

Or they could buff tank somehow. I don't think that'll affect PVE, bc tank is completely non-viable in PVE

[twilit oxide]

All they need to do is lower the % attack. So it forces you to build higher attack on supports

[fiery tree]

If they made it where if you had ~4000 attack it would hit for relatively the same amount of damage it does now I would be fine. But if you have low attack investment you shouldn't hit for much at all

[abstract basin]

Ive lost to tank down players and ive lost to people faster than me its not unbeatable

[hollow citrus]

Nah, it's "up to 180% of your attack" so lowering that just caps the damage lower

[fiery tree]

^

[hollow citrus]

Won't impact how much atk is needed

[stoic stirrup]

What I mean is like this 100k max hp or more - still deals 12% or so true damage

40k hp or more 6-8% true damage

15-20k - 2-3% true damage

(Not actual numbers just an example)

[abstract basin]

I think if you chose to build a support with high crit speed and atk your support should do half your hp with rev but thats just my take tho

[fiery tree]

I think it should be possible but harder if they have lower base attack

[twilit oxide]

You would need to build more attack to get the damage numbers up

[fiery tree]

Hence the 4k+ attack requirement

[tulip wave]

Right build a crit speed and atk lingluo then lets see how that goes

[hollow citrus]

I agree with this, but they would have to rework it quite a bit, since it doesn't do HP% based on your attack, your attack just caps it

[abstract basin]

I mean she has nothing in her kit to compliment dmg

I run a rev mia and that works

[tulip wave]

Because we all know kazuyo have

[fiery tree]

Kazuyo does

Multihit

[trim yarrow]

how can you say this

[fiery tree]

Relevation is per hit

[tulip wave]

Yea but thats the thing, is multi hits, not supports

[unreal breach]

The compliment is ur skill description reading "x hits"

[abstract basin]

2 hits on mia rev works wonders

[unreal breach]

cause the base dmg multis are horrendous, its just rev and x hits

[abstract basin]

While getting healed on top of that

[trim yarrow]

rev should never work on freya rcc 77 and that type of character

[tulip wave]

Because he is a rev player 😭

[abstract basin]

And why not? Have you seen rc77 multipliers on his sk3? He def does dmg

[fiery tree]

I'm telling you just put a requirement on it and leave it the way it is. Just say you need 4-4.5k attack minimum to let rev work

[hollow citrus]

Not quite that easy with it being based off HP. Say an enemy has 100k hp, you'll do a max of 12k (12%). To do 12k, you'd need 6,667 atk (6667 * 180% = 12k)

Yes, changing this to 150% means to do 12k you'd need 8k atk, so you're right vs really high HP units this will work as written, but most units aren't going to have that sort of HP, esp not in RTA. You usually find these sorts of HP in PVE. Most units are probably around 20k-30k hp, which is a max of 3000 dmg, requiring 1700 atk (easy to hit). Even dropping it to 120% only takes 2500 atk (also easy to hit)

Won't change much in RTA, but will massively nerf it in PVE

[tulip wave]

Thats lowkey crazy, i'm pretty sure they just can do a balance for pvp and other for pve they just don't want to

And i don't think they are nerfing rev

[fiery tree]

They won't nerf rev for another 80 days

Til the RTA season is over

Whenever it is

[tulip wave]

Because of what they said in the video, if they do, they are stupids

[fiery tree]

I'm not in game so I can't see

[tulip wave]

Rta season is over in 15 days

[twilit oxide]

Isn’t it over in 20 days?

[hollow citrus]

Bro that got changed. It ends in like 2 weeks

[fiery tree]

I guess I gotta maintain my top 10

Want that border

[tulip wave]

But it doesnt look like they are nerfing it

[fiery tree]

[hollow citrus]

Based on what?

[tulip wave]

Based on what they said in the video

Something really stupid to say im ngl

[hollow citrus]

Fair, they did say they want to see how we "solve this problem"

[twilit oxide]

20-30k would not be the tank teams though. The current ones should have around 50-60k doesn’t it?

Also bloodbath would mitigate the rev anyways