PVE needs to change (hear me out)

[full verge]

Hey everyone this is probably going to be controversial as hell,

As a spender, a whale and so far a huge glazer of this game, In my opinion PVE needs to change, with a lot of discussion about unit buffs, nerfs and changes to energy and the negatives around energy loss. I've realized theres an underlying point that most players are overlooking at thats the overall simplicity of the pve content.

I am specifically talking the three main dungeons and the shell dungeons and not the other pve like the track and the mapping thing after level 45, as I think their difficulty was quite good.

My major concern about this game will be the irrelevancy of PVE dungeons past month 1,

With infernal being cleared by most players (even f2p) by the end of day 12 (sorry my guild informed me the timing here was to short and even if you extend this to a month is it not still to short) and essentially end game being reached so quickly, I am concerned that this might impact people engagement in the game, especially those that are not 100% super invested and interested in PVP.

During beta I have seen teams with 4 star units, clear inferno, ive seen the same team clear every stage both normal dungeons and shell dungeons and i think this is due to the Stat requirements of dungeons being to low and due to the impact of some specific units like Marvel making stat requirements almost irrelevant (not entirely)

I would love to see people opinions on whether or not pve as a whole needs a difficulty increase, Personally i would love to see inferno requiring a full set of full geared 6 star units, and not a bunch of 4 star barely geared units, with 1 dps unit at 5 or 6 star.

Lemme know your thoughts guys and I hope Devs you take a look at how quickly players have essentially cleared your PVE conetnt. (It looks like it was buffed in each beta, and i think it needs 1 more.)

🙂

[sharp cloud]

I’m sure they will come out with new bosses new mechanics in the future

[gusty current]

Pve would be far more harder if the accuracy wasn’t increasing your chance of landing the debuffs

It would be a whole different experience

[uneven viper]

Thinking back to my first clears of gb10. They were slow at ~3-5 minutes with Bernard, Shannon, Bella, darion, and sig i think?

Veromos didn't exist to make it easy.

I want to say it took 3-6 months?

Might have even taken longer.

Its healthy when the game requires you to farm every level even a little. Not just jump straight to hell4.

[stoic pagoda]

So that was a giant post about nerf Marvell. K. That's already a guarantee

[vivid crane]

I mean other games use the level disparity restrictions to limit progression without affecting balance but I think most people are thankful that that isn’t in this game

[full verge]

no i think a lot of units trivialise the dungeons

[stoic pagoda]

As for a full team of fully built SSR's? Absolutely not. You can tell by the atmosphere of the game that is not the direction devs had in mind.

[full verge]

no i didnt not say ssrs, i said not 4 star units

[stoic pagoda]

WTF is a 4*?

oh, like lvl 35 cap?

[full verge]

yes

[manic dust]

Yes he meant every char should be atleast 6* pref levels 35-50

[stoic pagoda]

understood

[manic dust]

But even then you know in doki if you dont cc the enemies you get oneshot

Its hard to balance that

[stoic pagoda]

right

so then is Kraken also OP?

[elfin plover]

wait so make dungeons harder by adding more stages of difficulty or just straight up make the levels a bit harder

[ancient spoke]

I accidentally deleted my beta and had to start over so I didn’t get to progress toward the end game so I can’t comment on that

[full verge]

no your right hence there needs to be a discussion from the devs how they balance it, maybe doki units need to get cc immunity when they transform?

[manic dust]

But make less dmg?

[full verge]

sure if needed if they are onshotting 6 star geared units

[manic dust]

They are

XD

[stoic pagoda]

Sounds like OP just wants to increase the numbers plain and simple

[manic dust]

If all atk one target it will die

[elfin plover]

rilmocha 1 shot fr fr

[stoic pagoda]

yeah Main DPS had to be lvl 50 and geared

[full verge]

this team is a funny example

[vivid crane]

btw the 4 star mentioned in the post is mia

[stoic pagoda]

turn meter push can be any level if they don't get attacked, they just have to be fast

[vivid crane]

she has innate dmg red which is why she doesnt need high lvls

[full verge]

shadow sania being 6 stared is irrelvant to the clear

[vivid crane]

and dot in general need less stats

[stoic pagoda]

correct

[manic dust]

? That mia is gonna die if those mobs even look at her doki is blue

[full verge]

That team can also do every single dungeon in the game

[stoic pagoda]

The only way to do what you say is make them faster

[vivid crane]

is that a doki clear?

[full verge]

doki clear you change linglo to kraken

its slow but doable

[manic dust]

Thats aurora

You cant dot doki i think

[full verge]

no asia players used sainia in hell 4 doki doki

[stoic pagoda]

I can understand the original message being why are we clearing the hardest difficulty on day 12 of a beta? Where there's no known meta. Meaning people are figuring it out and clearing it within 12 days

[manic dust]

Nobody cares about hell they were ez

[full verge]

which is the point of the post

why are they so easy

[lucid oracle]

eh i disagree, the pve for me is split into 2 portions. Shell/module pve and everything else.

Shell/module pve in my eyes should be slightly easier as its basically a gateway for everyone pvp and pve mains alike to always revert back to to level up.

If the dungeons where you gear are too hard then little to no progression will be made and the game will be alot more stagnant.

The "easier" dungeons enables the ability to do the "harder" pve or pvp

[stoic pagoda]

To be fair, I think it's only extreme try hards and potential whales clearing inferno that fast

[patent umbra]

you can if u have multiple aoe dots, but units are limited

[stoic pagoda]

not the general public

[full verge]

no but the general public will do it in 20 days

is that still not to fast?

[uneven viper]

But what content is actually hard?

[ancient spoke]

Personally I think it was hard enough I didn’t get pass nightmare 3 lol

[manic dust]

Not sure can gen ppl clear inferno in 20 days

[uneven viper]

Maybe tower past 30?

[manic dust]

Tbh couldnt clear ethernet since i reseted stuff

[ancient spoke]

Then again I had to start over so I am sure if I had kept going with old account I could do it

[vivid crane]

also the devs have advertised this game as a pvp centric game, I don’t think making farming stages a hassle will do much favor for anyone and they will probably add a competitive pve mode outside of union in the later future

[stoic pagoda]

Just because there are records with clears doesn't mean it's attainable for the general public

idk about 20 days

[lucid oracle]

for pve ember track 30+ starts getting relatively hard, ethernet rally can cause issues if you dont have a grasp on what units to build and anisync is fairly difficult as very few pushed past whoever the second to last boss was. this is all based on EU

[stoic pagoda]

you think 50%+ of all players will be clearing Inferno in 20 days? absolutely not

[manic dust]

Yeah

Maybe like 20%

[uneven viper]

Even hell 4 at 20 days is too fast imo

[stoic pagoda]

So look at it this way

[uneven viper]

Rn theres just no point to having h3 and below basically

[stoic pagoda]

GVG is coming out. You're going to need more than 5 geared units

[manic dust]

I dont think you get hell 4 in 20 if you dont refresh xD its more gated by account level

[stoic pagoda]

yes right now we can switch gear and it's convenient. But what happens when you need 20 geared units to be competitive in GVG?

[uneven viper]

OK fine. Clearing hell 4 when you hit level 35 shouldn't be a thing.

[lucid oracle]

and the way most people are talking they are gonna be hard stuck at lvl 10

[manic dust]

Yeeeep

[lucid oracle]

not from a skill thing more because of the "im f2p i need to save for world war 5" mentality

[manic dust]

Ive seen so many posts i only refresh the 60 crystals, ppl dont get level 20 in a week

[uneven viper]

And they'll complain in a month that theyre getting rolled in rta

[ancient spoke]

Also depends on how much time you are able to invest in the game too

Per day

And using stamina effectively

[manic dust]

You aren't if you didnt focus enough on shells when the time was right and then on hell 2 and 3

[ancient spoke]

Farm for right thing for the right amount etc

[manic dust]

Why im facing s level 50 when im 20 whaleeeees

[uneven viper]

Shells is enough to jump into hell 4 with ~70% clear rate

If you +15 the free modules it gives you

[lucid oracle]

this was a common saying in the beta

[full verge]

true but the more people test and the more people streamline teams, and especially f2p teams the stat requirements generally get lower over time, the requirement today of beating Giants 10 in sw is about half of what it was 2 months into the game.

and i think they are to low in the game currently yes some dungeons mechanics mean a simple stat buff is no the solution, but something needs to change with Either units, mechanics, stats or maybe a little of all of it

[lucid oracle]

and the answer was always "im saving gems for pulls"

[uneven viper]

The pulls they want dupes nerfed for

[ancient spoke]

In times current pve content will get easier with more information out there

[lucid oracle]

also this

[gusty current]

Sw would’ve been totally different if acc res was working the same as in this game

[ancient spoke]

Personally if I can’t at least 2 star a stage I wouldn’t want to try the next stage

[uneven viper]

My god the amount of def breaks you'd lose for

[manic dust]

Also sw nowadays is different you can farm gb hell in like 3 days played

They made it soo new player friendly

[ancient spoke]

SW is summoner war ?

[gusty current]

3days if you go extremely hard

[gusty current]

Ye

[ancient spoke]

I think I tried it in the past

[lucid oracle]

i also feel like what you are saying here about the dungeon difficulty is more of a knee jerk reaction to the 1% of players who are geared and have the knowledge to push that content within 10-11 days

[gusty current]

And that’s why pve is on auto pilot and free asf

You just don’t get res since ur always on the max activation rate

[lucid oracle]

as most have said, majority of players wont get there that fast and even in beta most struggled in nightmare/hell. At least they did in eu

[ancient spoke]

If a certain team can clear on manual but not auto it is not a good team for me

[uneven viper]

Yeah the biggest thing is we didn't have knowledge of these games 12 years ago

Now we have a decade of experience

[full verge]

once again agree its a severe reaction, but what will there be to do in one months time, without any information on future pve, there will be a drop off of players who get bored of the pve real fast, look at all the comments saying im a pve player

pve has already essentially been solved before the game released

[elfin plover]

transferable experience my goat!!!

[lucid oracle]

as for using "under levelled units", i do think its more of an etheria thing combined with a knowledge thing.

[ancient spoke]

Technically there are enough information out there for it . It is just a matter of putting time and effort and getting the right characters to work on

[full verge]

we also didnt have guides where they tell you the exact speed, hp and def requirements, units and skill ups

[patent umbra]

yeah I kinda agree with this.
Although I think the PvE content was a bit too fast to progress on (I reached Hell 4 even doing a bunch of mistakes along the way), I also know I spent money, played a lot of hours and watched a lot of guides.
Not everyone will be like me. And not everyone will whale. For them, this game will be much harder to progress, probably

[lucid oracle]

as far as i heard there are 3 towers for ember trak? and the furthest i saw was floor 41 so there is still plenty there

[elfin plover]

the people who make these guides are a godsend

[full verge]

my post specifically says to ignore ember track as i found that quite enjoyable and at the right level of dificulty

[ancient spoke]

It can get annoying

[full verge]

agreed i think they are good for casual players, but the day by day guide that plans out your first 20 days is getting a little to farfetched for me (even tho i like making them for myself)

[bitter flume]

all this really means is that tryhards will have nothing to do in pve pretty quickly though so it's still an issue

[ancient spoke]

I watch somebody’s video today on 125 pulls and his rng and luck was terrible I felt bad for him

[full verge]

also the whales, the people who fund the game, if they leave the game leaves

[patent umbra]

probably true and I think that's why Thenya says it should be harder

[full verge]

and i really want the game to succed and be around for 10 + years (imo cause i spent money already haha)

[ancient spoke]

This is just a beginning I am sure they will come up with more complex content to keep them busy

[lucid oracle]

thats always gonna be a thing

[elfin plover]

at some point youll find more efficent ways to do things past a certain amount of days because the rng just spreads you away what might be a dumb idea migjt now be a good idea

[ancient spoke]

You can’t push through content as fast if you don’t invest time either

[vivid crane]

well if you like competitive pve, you can just minmax union boss, but most tryhards will probably be in rta queue for he majority of their playing time or guild wars when that comes out, I feel like pve is just a side factor in this game

[full verge]

but speed and effeciency dosnt matter in this game since energy refreshes are capped, as long as you can beat it all within 24 hours as to not waster enegery speed is not relevant

only clear rate does

[ancient spoke]

Time will tell depends on what they do next

[patent umbra]

it definitely is, they stated as much (pvp focused, they said)

[ancient spoke]

If they fix the RTA then it would be more attractive

[elfin plover]

when i said efficient i meant clear rate also shouldve specified im gonna be saving some energy and stabalizers for the day 2x comes

[full verge]

but without pve to give value to the gear, pvp becomes irrelvant, otherwise they would just give us units with premade stats, and let us have fun

but this game wouldnt work if it was only pvp

[vivid crane]

yeah that’s why easier pve is preferred by the majority

I don’t think people playing a pvp centric game will enjoy harder farming stages when it’s already a hassle

there are already modes like ember track and other endgame map mode for challenging pve content

[elfin plover]

im hoping hoard a decent chunk of energy if im going through campeign and pve fast enough without redoing the same difficulty to much so i can use the rest on 2x on hell/inferno

spent way to much energy on unique modules lol

[vivid crane]

I think the modules and shell stages should just remain as is, they’re not really “endgame” pve modes

[uneven viper]

But its supposed to help artificially elongate the lifespan

For casuals at least

They're hear to "beat" the game and do filler stuff in between

[vivid crane]

tbh i don’t think casuals really matter to games longeivity in an rta game but that’s my opinion

[uneven viper]

You need the casuals, f2p etc to keep the game alive

It can't just be whales vs whales

[vivid crane]

yes except casuals dont play competitive content

and casual whales are few and far in between

[uneven viper]

They do sometimes. That's who your plat level f2p beats up on

That's what keeps them around while the whales beat up on them

[elfin plover]

a lot of people start of as casuals
casuals who stay may spend a little money
casuals who stay may turn into competative players fr fr
more casuals dropping bits of money here and there more content for everyone

[full verge]

harder isnt the specificly what i truely want, its that most teams center around the same 4 supports, with a slight different dps

its like have 4 different maths questions and we use the same answer for all 4 questions

[vivid crane]

I’m just saying what usually happens in pvp gacha games is that there is a couple hundred/thousand that make up the competitive community and it only dwindles down as time passes

[uneven viper]

It doesnt matter how much I've spent, when I'm done beating up on folks I'm just moving on to the next.

[full verge]

no if you look at raid shadow legends and summons war the two big boys in the pvp space, every dungeon has completely different teams

[elfin plover]

what server you joining i dont think ill be in the same one

[full verge]

this one has the same set repeating in them all

[uneven viper]

Global lol

[full verge]

and its not a unit issue its a mechanics and dungeon design issue

[elfin plover]

💔 dont beat me

[ancient spoke]

I prefer if they make each character unique for specific content so everyone would eventually want to invest in diversity of characters tot clear different content

[full verge]

hell just make one of the dungon boss turn meter not push back able

[uneven viper]

It doesnt help that one of the 2 main module farms is almost just a straight ripoff of SW

[stoic pagoda]

which?

[uneven viper]

Terror. Its basically just db10

[full verge]

terror id agree its a simple dungeon, and aurora is basically dragon

[uneven viper]

Or whatever the current db is

[vivid crane]

I agree dot is overtuned for pve, but otherwise I’d say 200% dmg taken diversifies units to a certain extent

[stoic pagoda]

plenty of songs sound similar or even use tracks or clips from previous songs. Inspiration is allowed

[uneven viper]

Oddly enough thats one thing I appreciated. There was a period of time in which db10 was triple water imp dots 🤣

[full verge]

even if you ignore dot teams, it was an example of how silly it can get, but most teams have very little diferentiation, its ussually 1 unit max difference

[ancient spoke]

I can’t relate to SW I didn’t play it long and it had been ages

[lucid oracle]

this is also due to the beta being short and alot of people just gravitated to what worked for clears vs experimenting

[elfin plover]

someone once suggested buffs and nerfs that are only in arena or buffs/nerfs to a certain troop typing mighr work

[ancient spoke]

There wasn’t enough time to experiment anyway

[full verge]

but they will do the exact same in live

[uneven viper]

In fairness to this game vs SW, the grind in SW started off way longer because you'd spend a month, and most times even longer, trying to get 1 character

Bella

[full verge]

players are incentivised to do the route of least resisitance because pvp is the focus of this game

[elfin plover]

the white wolf?

[lucid oracle]

it depends on the upcoming changes

[uneven viper]

Here you just get a fuckton of pulls + reroll

[uneven viper]

Yes.

You basically needed it. Was def break + heals

[full verge]

changes will mean everyone switches to the next best alternative

[elfin plover]

i got that shit first try using my las couple gems gambling dungeon

[uneven viper]

On the games release?

[full verge]

which is fine, my issue that all the dungeons will get stale very quickly because we will solve them way to fast

[vivid crane]

but isn’t that the devs intention?

[elfin plover]

nah somwhere between 2020 and 2025

[vivid crane]

that’s why they have the lb/record system

[uneven viper]

When it was released it was insaneeeeeeee trying to get Bella dungeon lol

[vivid crane]

so anyone can copy clears

[elfin plover]

why what made it hard?

[lucid oracle]

i mean its a farming dungeon, its not made to be engaging content. Its why you can afk it

[uneven viper]

And you couldn't even clear it 🤣

[elfin plover]

wait im straying to far from the convo mb

[uneven viper]

It was a drop from beating the dungeons. You couldn't open the dungeon via gems.

[full verge]

so in other games people are always incentivised to make their clears faster due to the fact that you can infinitely refresh, meaning faster times = more runs, that is not in this game so speed dosnt really matter

[uneven viper]

So you had to clear giants to get it as a drop to get the unit to clear giants 🤣

[vivid crane]

I mean speed still matters for majority of players

[full verge]

total runs in etheria is capped daily and so the goal is to be conistant and relaible and not fast and reliable

[vivid crane]

whales will have like 1300 stam daily?

[elfin plover]

manual play my goat!!!

[vivid crane]

even with 1 min clears that still 2 hours + of dailies

[full verge]

even at 5 minutes per run with runs going in the background even a whale can clear their energy easily

[ancient spoke]

Manual play would be fun if you didn’t have to farm endlessly

[full verge]

but whales will clear in 1 minute not because they built a fast team, but cause there stats will so heavily outway the dungeon they almost one shot it

[vivid crane]

idk I don’t think most people can constantly check their phone throughout the day to replay the auto run

espcially with 5 min clears, that almost the whole daytime

with full refreshes

[full verge]

One youtube showed 36 second clear times with messiah maxed, essentially 3 shotting the boss, thats completely useless, but a whale will do it cause they just need to build 1 unit

[ancient spoke]

Yeah very time consuming

[full verge]

so they arent doing it for speed but due to it being easier

[ancient spoke]

Most likely

Personally if I can get a team that can auto clear 3 then I am happy

[full verge]

which will be 99% of players

[ancient spoke]

Yeah I am not crazy about speed farming as much as been able to farm safely

Specially end game stuff

[uneven viper]

Smart man

[full verge]

so theres also the flipside, right in the last event, the wave clear one, there was a player on the asia server who go to wave 24 (sss) for all rewards with a 72 minute clear time

I think its weird how some content is super easy, and yet others are increadibly and weirdly difficult

[vivid crane]

most people in the later stages were getting sss in sub 20 mins that event is just a gear threshold

plus 24 rounds is 24 battles

[elfin plover]

of course its the asian i wanna see the full 74 minutes now

[full verge]

2 healers 2 revivers and obal

[elfin plover]

do u know ehat unjts they picked was jt just hella sustain and chip lol

[full verge]

was borderline depression

[elfin plover]

all i know is sania can revive who the other?

[full verge]

Beyotian the fire girl who reses

[ancient spoke]

I agree like union boss difficulty jumped a lot after first boss

[open shard]

This is ragebait right

[static bear]

Agree content needs to be much harder. Disagree that it’ll be dead. It’s a necessity because there’s a ton of units people wanna build and getting good gear takes a lot of time.

[smoky cypress]

Everyone who were serious during beta were doing 10x stamina refreshes per day for 12 days (or til lv40). So its more prudent to consider this because f2p cant maintain this kind of progression past the honeymoon period when the rewards dry up.

Increasing difficulty like what OP suggests is one way to extend the player's engagement. But we already have that baked in the system. Other than how fast we reached Inferno (which we established earlier is unnaturally fast because of refreshes), we should also look at how much decent mythic gear we got while farming inferno. Not the fact that many reached Inferno. Gear rolls is another layer of gacha that will keep gacha heads engaged for months.

And when the devs see that f2p are catching up to the whales with gear, in a couple of months maybe, one thing they can do is release new dungeons that drops new gears, matrixes and shells. Extending the engagement again

[rancid quail]

What I don't like is the fact that even inferno stages can drop modules with a 2 set, pls it doesn't make sense

[smoky cypress]

Ye this comes with the unreleased inferno III

[static bear]

Everyone’s refreshing until 40-50 anyway.

[smoky cypress]

Yea, so in 2 weeks, most players will be using their stamina on inferno hoping for the gear with the right matrix to drop. And on top of that hoping for the upgrades to roll in the right stat. At this point i think f2p will complain more about lack of stamina more than the lack of difficulty

[uneven viper]

Its f2p. They complain about everything.

[smoky cypress]

No i mean it will be normal to feel that way, or even complain, for anyone who got used to refreshing 10x a day for two weeks. It will just take some time to get used to the new normal. My point of bringing it up is really that adding increased difficulty on top of the existing gear gacha may be unnecessary to extend player engagement

[elfin plover]

oh ty

[static bear]

F2P and p2w won’t ever and shouldn’t ever be balanced.

[smoky cypress]

Yes.

[untold helm]

F2P when they can’t refresh after 3 weeks - whales can max refresh I have to save for pulls! this game is bs P2W unplayable it’s not fair
F2P when dupes work everywhere - whales get WAY stats than me! this game is bs P2W unplayable it’s not fair
F2P when content is hard - whales get lattices to clear easier! this game is bs P2W unplayable it’s not fair
F2P when they pull a dupe - I pulled a dupe it’s only 5% more stats that’s so low it’s trash! This game is bs P2W unplayable it’s not fair

[full verge]

once again maybe i wrote incorrectly, im not specifically asking for strait out increases in difficulty, more so that all pve has basically 1 solution (doki doki is the only one with a unique team comp)

I kinda look at each of the dungeons and shell dungeons as a maths problem, and we are using the same answer for each problem

with how quick the game progresses, I think the issue is that theres no required team variety in the dungeons (think summoners war, your GB team does not look remotely like your necro or dragons team)

[lunar flower]

Game aint even out yet 😭

Just wait to see the events

[full verge]

and yet everything already has a solution

[lunar flower]

So you have a solution to the train event?

The multi team adventure?

Inferno?

Cube event?

[full verge]

Yes, no and yes

[untold helm]

I really do think that it was just a matter of “it’s beta” let’s just copy the one comp that works instead of experimenting

[full verge]

yes

So also @lunar flower if you read my post i did say ignore events and the team adventure

cause they are well done

[lunar flower]

But that is pve content

[full verge]

but yes Train has solutions already

[lunar flower]

U cant just ignore the events

[full verge]

No i gave reasoning why

so i can

[untold helm]

Launch will be much the same people will follow what beta players did (unless there is some massive changes on launch) so teams will be identical

CCS already pushing “rimolcha start clears this!!!”

[lunar flower]

😭 just let the game launch. And when that issue arrives they can add more pve content.

[full verge]

Kinda once again not the point, idc if people follow build guides which is fine, my problem is all of the content has the same solution

[lunar flower]

2 weeks of waiting is already hell, i dont wanna wait another year

[full verge]

even the train event uses the same exact team as doki doki, but speed tuning matters

also theres a safe version for garunteeing SSS which uses 2 healers, 2 revivers and Obal which takes 60+ minutes but cant lose

[full verge]

no the point of the beta was so we can test and give feedback, My feedback is there is not a variety in the solutions required "required is the important part" and the pve content can be trivialized by building 1 essential team that can complete all content (the same 4 supports + 1 dps based on element)

and my example is how in say Summoners war each dungeon requires an entirely different team to complete it (causing variety) something this games pve is missing

[lunar flower]

Thats like any content tho... people will just copy others

[full verge]

copying is not the problem please read

do you not get the difference between copying cc and having the same team across all dungeons

[lunar flower]

Bruh... your arguing about people using the same teams 😭

[full verge]

Idc if all teams in Terra are the same

my problem if all teams in terra doki and aurora are the same

[lunar flower]

You cant use your terra teams on doki doki...

[full verge]

yes you can

[lunar flower]

On inferno?

Doubt it

[full verge]

yes

the best example of this is

Ella Knox's team

the only change required to beat all dungeons is swapping Linglo to kraken for Doki doki

[lunar flower]

Thays nightmare.....

[full verge]

?? are you dumb its inferno leaderboard

[lunar flower]

Oh your thing was highlighted on nightmare

[lunar flower]

Damn take a chill pill how insecure are u

[full verge]

you proved my point that you comment before reading

[elfin plover]

oh sent late mb

[full verge]

yea my guy is dumb he comments before reading simple things

like an image

[lunar flower]

So immature

[untold helm]

They could just put restrictions on the hunts

“Must use at least 2x element advantage unit”

[full verge]

why because you commenting dumb things infuriates me, This post is a valid concern about the issues facing the pve side of the game, and before even reading the post you come in a say "na your wrong" and then procced to use the few examples of pve which i said where good

in my post

[elfin plover]

lol sometimes peoole can accidently overlook stuff

[lunar flower]

Still immature, idk what to say

[full verge]

yea but he is 3/3 in doing so

[full verge]

and thats your opinion, similar to how you dont want people to give feedback until after they make a mistake, but thats fine, so just dont comment in here in the future and lets other actually discuss the topic i put forward

[lunar flower]

Lol, game isnt even out and your tweaking about changing the pve system

https://tenor.com/view/marin-kitagawa-my-dress-up-darling-dress-up-darling-marin-kitagawa-gif-24538613

[full verge]

thanks for proving my point, and im the immature one

[lunar flower]

Im just stooping to your level

[keen dome]

i think the gear grind pve should be on the easy side, the tower like pve,co-op,rally and others alike are the challenge stages.

[unique jay]

Those dungeon you mentioned is not endgame content for pve, why do you want to make it harder to be end game content?

[full verge]

harder isnt the specific goal, more differentiation between the dungeons are is the want

[smoky cypress]

...Going back to the topic, i see your point. I'm personally aiming for at least one DoT account to do exactly this. But if I understand you correctly, your original concern was having the same core team clear most of early game may impact people's engagement, right?

And maybe you want more variation in teams before we even get to mid-game at lvl 40, is this right?

[full verge]

even post 40, id like more mechanics in the bosses, for example say Terra cant be pushed back

[smoky cypress]

Yea, like hard rules that are written in bold text like YOU CANT USE DOT TEAM HERE

I mentioned around lvl 40 cus its when inferno comes into the picture when affinity becomes important

But yea i get your point now

[full verge]

yea so if an addition mechanic is only added to say inferno + then thats fine

[smoky cypress]

Yea like a few different versions of inferno+ where you have to use different teams

I like that idea

This is the point where players are starting to build other teams too so its perfect

We can have the harder inferno+ version that drops only keeneye and furyedge matrixes as a reward for it being more restrictive in units you can use

On dev side, they dont have to build whole new bosses, just add a few more gimmicks on existing ones which is probably easier to implement

Idk man that sounds like a win-win for devs and players

[hoary shell]

Making the game harder doesn't seem like a win to me

[hoary shell]

You can't do this in auto, I watched his clear before

[full verge]

you mcan mia uses s2 first

[hoary shell]

His sania needs to do basic most of the time, also that team is not viable in doki

[full verge]

no sania never needs to s1

[hoary shell]

Sania basic gives 2 dot stacks

[full verge]

no 1 plus 1 for passive

[hoary shell]

He stacks for all turns then do ult

[full verge]

so s2 also gives 2

1 from s2 and 1 from passive

also in knoxes run sania never uses s1 ever

[hoary shell]

Yeah but no shot he can auto it, u lose damage when ai prioritise ult instead of dot stacking

[full verge]

due to the fact he is running codex of magic

so he goes s2 s2 s3

and the boss is dead

[full verge]

not all units prio s3

[hoary shell]

Do u have a vid or something?

I definitely watched it before but he only s1, s2 then s3 after 5 turns

Haven't even seen him clear doki with that team

[smoky cypress]

To me, it seems like it makes the game harder at the point when things are becoming stale

[full verge]

i do actually let me find it

[hoary shell]

Rta is where the fun for me so I don't think there's a point making module farming harder

[smoky cypress]

No, its actually making it easier. This is what i said "We can have the harder inferno+ version that drops only keeneye and furyedge matrixes as a reward for it being more restrictive in units you can use"

[hoary shell]

Just nerf marvel then that team is gonna have a hard time

[smoky cypress]

There's like 7 different matrixes in inferno, like do you need all of them?

[hoary shell]

Should be on another suggestion thread but that seems good

[smoky cypress]

Nah man its related #1375509005878952048 message

[full verge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ59tolomxY&t=224s here is the even more p2w version

[hoary shell]

That's s5 all units like it's not even close 😂

[full verge]

Yea i cant find knox's vid, but both sania and mia have s2 prio on abilities

mia prio is s2 if full hp s3 if damage taken

and since its a dot team stats dont matter

only speed

and accuracy which star level makes no difference on

either way i will be building the dot team for myself on release

[hoary shell]

Well with dots they only shine in late game and only in PvE so I'll just let them have it, and other teams can also clear it so it's all good to me

[full verge]

i mean since they %hp they work at as stages and still not the point of what im asking for, like dots shouldnt work for all content and bosses

but currently they do

Straight cleave works on all bosses

etc

doki doki is the best example of a different fight

but aurror and terra are to similar

same with all the shell bosses

[smoky cypress]

The one and only boss who is dot resistant is sharon

[wintry wharf]

This is not how these types of games work. This is a strictly PVP game, PVE isnt suppose to be some big challange you are trying to accomplish.

[smoky cypress]

I hear you, but if we are just a pvp game, then why have such interesting bosses?

[full verge]

except pvp games generally have huge PVE content

because you cant just have pvp

otherwise lots of pvp only games wouldnt EOS or become just purely whale territory

[smoky cypress]

Strictly pvp game is dota2 and league of legends, not etheria restart

[full verge]

they are not gachas tho so i hate those being brought in

[elfin plover]

for gears and stuff a big part of pve is rerolling gears imo

[full verge]

but yea they entirely skill based and money has no impact on them

[full verge]

yea you need a pipeline for gear and the more fun and engaging that process is the better the game

reason a game like Summoners war with absolutly horrendious spending at gacha rates still exists, its because their pve content is insane

and varied

[smoky cypress]

Idk man, they're all games in my eyes, but lets agree to disagree on this one

[elfin plover]

also dopamine hits me like a truck when i get a +1% increase on anything if it doesnt ruin my comp lol

[full verge]

no but the premise behind them is different you dont need to roll gear for those games, everyone has access to exactly the same stats and items

also they have pve in them

think baron and jungle

think minions

[elfin plover]

they are all games but in dota or league you dont reroll items and the items you do buy have a guranteed stat or substat that isnt affected by pve

[full verge]

im not saying you cant compare, but its like comparing a mobile games story to a Tripple A title 100$ out of box game

we have different expectations for the two when we play them

hence i try not to compare gacha pvp games to gacha pve games

cause one is pvp and the other is a collection simulator

[smoky cypress]

Right, so do we have an example of a pvp centric gacha game?

[full verge]

That’s only pvp and has 0 pve, not really most if not all of them have EOS’d

The only examples where this isn’t the case is Summkners war, E7 and maybe Raid

[elfin plover]

all i can think of is e7

[smoky cypress]

They dont have pve in e7?

[full verge]

They do

[smoky cypress]

There has to be

[full verge]

Tho I don’t play it so idk how much depth it has

[elfin plover]

the ones you farm gear off of count as pve i think or either im mis remembering

[full verge]

But people say it’s quite deep

I mean if pve didn’t matter than they could just remove it all and give each player random loot each day. No need to run dungeons here just take 30 different sets with random stats each day

I mean an example of a gacha game that is just pvp would be (most card games) but they don’t have anything past the cards themselves

[smoky cypress]

Oh yeah card games

[full verge]

Like magic the gathering or hearthstone

But they don’t have gear so I wouldn’t compare them, because the model and genre is completely different

[elfin plover]

this would be next level sad low dopamine :((

[full verge]

Yea I want the game to move away from that, same reason I’m against selling gear in the shop

Cause that’s how games end up

[elfin plover]

selling gear in shop as in to other players?

[full verge]

As in I just buy 20 random speed set items

I don’t like paying so skip content I am a ok with paying to make content easier and faster tho

Still want the content to be there

[elfin plover]

ohh ok i c

[untold helm]

In e7 you can clear the max hunts in week 1 with the free stuff they give new players

There is then rift which is endgame farm (for the same resources you can just mix and match) which is a lot harder but usually they sell a gacha unit right before who can solo it with the free gear you’re given

The only “tough” pve content is abyss and even that’s solved because it’s now like 3-4 years old since they updated and you can do the entire thing with 3* units (which is the equivalent of R here)

And then it becomes a matter of making one shot comps over the steady clears to become faster and grinding them continuously because gearing extremely well is not easy

So I don’t see a problem with people reaching inferno in one week, if there is more and more pve content added that’s actually tougher for rewards which will benefit you in PvP I’m happy

[high pier]

I think it's way too early to call for a massive ramp up in difficulty and rebalancing of all the core PVE elements. If it proves to be a problem and people get bored, then they can look at it (and I'm sure we'll get new content over time -- you always do in gachas)

The vast majority of people playing betas are not casuals just looking to play a fun game. We're on the very bleeding edge of trying to push things as far as possible. We are the outliers, and things shouldn't be balanced around the 0.1% trying to do the absolute most 😆

[tall cairn]

I strongly agree with this. The PvE content felt way too easy to clear, even when using characters that didn’t synergize well against the bosses. I rarely had to take the time to actually learn the bosses' kits before reaching Nightmare 3. Up to that point, you could just brute-force your way through. As it stands, PvE bosses become irrelevant far too quickly. They should at least provide a meaningful challenge for about three months. Otherwise, players will start feeling like there's not enough to do, even with events and PvP available.

[full verge]

hey look alex agrees with something i said 😮

[tall cairn]

Yeah sorry to tell you I don’t care about sides I only care about what I believe is right I don’t disagree with people just for the sake of disagreeing

[full verge]

haha na your good :)\

[tall cairn]

Yeah lets let bygones be bygones I got to heated in that conversation as well ain’t healthy not that I changed my stance but agree to disagree

[full verge]

always, i hold nothing against anyone in here, at the base line we all want the game to be better

[untold drum]

I dont mind either way but i think they wont change it for main dungeons and the shell dungeons and keep it more casual. Treat it as gatekeeper content to get into pvp/harder pve modes. What they could add is a mode like Rift in e7. Not 1 to 1 just the idea. A harder mode that drops gear/shell in a higher rate and quality but much harder to clear.

[unique jay]

I think the game wants you to explore different pve modes. There are endgame modes provide very challenging content and leadboard. I would say your suggestion only makes sense if you have cleared all of those.

[full verge]

its defenitly food for thought, we dont know how long it will take to complete the exploration game mode, or if the difficulty scales.

Though something like Guildboss, already maxed by some players well before getting end game gear, its things like this that i want to draw attention too

idk if there is a solution or if one is needed, i just have concerns of the ease of the pve might cause players to leave to quickly

especially when they hit the p2w wall that will exist in pvp

[lucid oracle]

what do you mean exploration game mode? do you mean ethernet rally the multi team one?

[full verge]

the level 45 one, cant remember the name

looks like a spiderweb mad

map*

[unique jay]

I dont think you addressed my questions, the dungeons you targeted at are for people to farm gears and resources, so they can put them in endgame challenges. If you are looking for end game content, why dont you propose a harder endgame pve content itself? why do you want to make the farming stages harder?

[full verge]

im wasnt asking for them to be harder specifically, i was mostly getting at the fact that they are all basically the same mechanic

[unique jay]

for farming stages, what are the issues to be like that?

all the variety challenging endgame content are not in those farming stages

[full verge]

because even farming teams should have variety

otherwise just have 1 boss and pick a different reward each time

[unique jay]

no i disagree

[full verge]

they tried to make each boss unique, but they have failed due to them creating to many overly versitile units

[unique jay]

but I guess that is your point

they dont make those bosses too hard and too unique

[full verge]

essentially due to units being so good (i.e doing multiple things in one kit) you dont need to do anything different for each boss

my example is of summoners war , where each boss is not hard, but the mechanics require you to build 3 different teams

[unique jay]

well I guess you like to suffer or show off swiping power

but I dont think even whales have the resource to build too many units in first few weeks

[full verge]

and that game is a pvp focused game too

[full verge]

ok hence the point of my post, i think the progression from early game to end game is too fast

[unique jay]

that is definitely not for bosses to farm gears

[full verge]

did you read the post ?

I specifically said we need to discuss the fact that getting to end game is so fast

[unique jay]

I read, but you did not say anything about endgame

what you mentioned are not end game content

[rancid quail]

These are literally the first 3 dungeons, it's normal that they are easy. There are gonna be a lot of challenging content down the line

[unique jay]

you are taking a farming stage which we should dump weeks of stamina in to get op gears as end game content

[rancid quail]

Yeah, inferno stages are literally early game

[unique jay]

which surprised me

[full verge]

ok then why have normal, hard, hell and nightmare modes

[unique jay]

I agree

[full verge]

you could condense it to just normal and Inferno

[unique jay]

linear progression for f2p

[tall cairn]

Yeah I hope we were just playing an extra fast route for the beta to test out everything within the short two weeks the beta ran.

[rancid quail]

They shouldn't, at least not have so much variety

[full verge]

but even f2p skip blue green and purple gear at day2

[unique jay]

no one skip those, they give summon tickets

[rancid quail]

Having so many different rarities for modules is useless since I use a lot of them for only a day or two

[full verge]

progression for f2p is, put level 6 purple gear, on your unit, go straight to nightmare, put yellow level 12 gear on, go straight to hell and farm till you can do inferno at 50

[unique jay]

dude

f2p needs thoses first clear of those stages

otherwise how do they get summons

lol

[full verge]

you could just half the amount of clears and double the rewards

[unique jay]

lol what is the difference

[full verge]

my point is all of the dungeons before inferno are trivalised within 2 weeks, even for f2p players

[unique jay]

why this is even an arguement

those are there for f2p to progress, and get summon tix

[rancid quail]

I agree with this since green, blue and purple are literally useful only on day one

[full verge]

and the difference between the 14 dungeons we will run late game are basically irrelevant

[unique jay]

so people dont get too bored but still get rewards

[tall cairn]

If inferno mode is early game what will late game be called Worldbreaker Cataclysm the End

[unique jay]

there are other modes which are much harder and need much more units

[rancid quail]

How can it be endgame when u beat it in 2 weeks?

[full verge]

this is the problem, we beat it to fast

[rancid quail]

There are other modes for this

[unique jay]

this is one

and there is another game mode needs three teams by faction

that one is super hard

[full verge]

yes i get what your saying prey for lily, the issue is that currently it takes less than 2 weeeks to ignore 90% of the current content in the game

[tall cairn]

Yeah the green and blue gear especially felt like it might as well not exist considering how fast you bypass it and get to purple and than a day later max your at epic and than two days after outstanding.

[unique jay]

and also limited mode the endless train, also very difficult

[full verge]

i think thats poor

why have green blue and purple gear if its basically irrelvant

[unique jay]

when you say that 90%, is it based on stages

because for those too modes there are tons of stage

Grim pursuit is 40 ish stages

each stages having 3 levels

120 stages

so how come 14 stages of gear farming is 90% ....

and plus like I said, this is a gear farming game

[full verge]

if you want to be like that, there are 13 grim dungeons each have 3 so thats 39, the three main dungeons have 10/11 each so thats 72 stages,

[unique jay]

you pass those infero means nothing

you need to farm

[full verge]

where only the final ones matter

[rancid quail]

What I don't like is that since u beat inferno stages so fast they can still drop a 2 set gear making it so annoying to farm in the long run

[lucid oracle]

thats ethernet rally. For EU there was 1 completion, and quite a few others around my progress if not one node further. The difficulty scaling for this mode is more around how many units you have built for each type

[tall cairn]

I got through grim pursuit hella quick their was no challenge on the levels I played it was nice for rewards but I never even felt a single wall in progress

[unique jay]

otherwise how can you compete pvp if you cant farm lol

[full verge]

ok and i find that extremely disturbing that someone was able to beat it all in 10 days

[lucid oracle]

drops os the real issue

[unique jay]

did you pass level 45 or 40?

[full verge]

especially since energy is capped so its not like they could just farm infinetly

[unique jay]

lol

[rancid quail]

I would've preferred a more difficult stage that could drop only 3 set gear

[lucid oracle]

for eu there were only really 10 of us who got to floor 3, alot were stuck on floor 1/2

[full verge]

but we are talking 10 days, idc if you completed 100% or 90% of it, if there was 1 or 10 or 100 people... we are talking 10 days of a game..

Thats an increadibly short lifespan of content

[lucid oracle]

you needed a decent breadth of characters levelled

[unique jay]

and that ethernal rally can easily get more difficulty right?

why do you want to make farm stage harder

lol

[tall cairn]

Not I only played 5 days and had just unlocked it and already had reached 20 and the only reason I didn’t progress further was that I stopped playing so I could enjoy the rest on launch because I was burning through all the content.

[rancid quail]

Because nobody pushed hard since it was just a beta

[unique jay]

taht 1 person probably spend a ton

[lucid oracle]

again this is the literal 1% of the population

[full verge]

theres a cap on spending....

[lucid oracle]

it felt tht in eu alot did

[unique jay]

the difficulty is not linear

[hoary shell]

I don't want to see hp inflation like in HSR because "the game is too easy"

[unique jay]

what is the cap? lol

I feel you guys are making things up now

[lucid oracle]

again difficulty is only really comes if you have just not built enough of the right type

[full verge]

Energy? is capped?

[tall cairn]

That’s the point Imagine if they had

[full verge]

you know the thing that lets people get end game gear faster?

[lucid oracle]

ironically that is the difficulty in some stages

[rancid quail]

The hardest stages are obviously gonna be like that, with long run where you just push turn meter

[hoary shell]

As long as it's not end game content I'm okay with it haha

[unique jay]

I think those turn meter units might get nerfed though

[lucid oracle]

i dont know the spend but that person had a fairly well rounded account. So it is more likely they had a decent knowledge of the game already

[full verge]

no ones asking for hp inflation, i just want each of the dungeons to be more unique and have different methods of complition, currently i think all farming stages might as well be excatly the same, since 6 units can beat it all

[unique jay]

but it is a different topic

[lucid oracle]

i'll let you find out yourself

[unique jay]

my point is, instead of making the stages for gear farming harder, it should make the stages like grim pursuit or ethernal rally harder

[tall cairn]

I feel like at most progress wise players should have reached purple gear by the end of a week and epic by the end of the second week and outstanding by the end of the first month etc

[lucid oracle]

ah, i can agree to that. Not grim pursuit though

[full verge]

Not harder, please for the love of god, stop changing my words... I want different

[rancid quail]

I think they are gonna add new stages in the long run with even better gear

[full verge]

Look at summoners war like i said, each of their farming stages are different

and people point to that game as having the current best pve and pvp experience (if you ignore there horrendous spending and monitisation)

[unique jay]

so what do you mean by difficulty increase?

I am totally confused now

[tall cairn]

At this rate if the speed of progress remain I might straight up nerf myself to make sure I have more content to do by leveling all characters SR or above character I get at the same time to.

[rancid quail]

I don't really think that beating inferno stages easily is a bad thing since the rng to get what you really want is atrocious, you will need to farm for weeks or months to get all the best pieces for a single Animus

[full verge]

Theres two parts to that, I asked if people think it needs a difficulty increase? and the second half is me saying i think its sad to see a team of 4 and 5 star units killing the end game content

you might not call it end game, but its currently the end game farming, which most people will call end game

[unique jay]

so can I respond to the part for difficulty increase?

[unique jay]

instead of making the stages for gear farming harder, it should make the stages like grim pursuit or ethernal rally harder

[full verge]

sure and i concided that while ago (probably 400 messages ago)

[unique jay]

what is wrong for my respond?

lol

dude

[full verge]

I concided that harder was the wrong wording

[lucid oracle]

you're gonna get nerfed anyway, you'll have bad rng in pulls and it'll take you 6 months for one effect accuracy main stat swift speed module, only for it to not roll a speed substat

[unique jay]

you win, ggg

[full verge]

and that different is what i actually want

[unique jay]

sure difficulty increase is better

[rancid quail]

Only the dot team can do that but it's horrible in PvP and many other pve modes so I think it's a fair trade

[full verge]

sure and i concede that aswell, and i think having to build a wide roster even for f2p is important, why bottle everyone into using just like 7 units

[tall cairn]

The rng isn’t that bad in the beta I legit easily got any kind of set piece I wanted

[lucid oracle]

you used up all your luck in beta. GGs

[full verge]

especially since A rng for units in this game is soo good, and B you will have 50/60% of the roster by the end of the first month even as a f2p

assuming rates are the same as in beta

hell there were some f2p players who got every ssr hero, without spending

[lucid oracle]

• if people pull and dont save for the apocolypse

[tall cairn]

Honestly my luck with the Shell was worse than that with the Gear I was farming some shells for ages

[manic dust]

Why ppl are mad sbout having lot of sets? Isnt it more fun to have diverse sets than just like only 4

[lucid oracle]

tbh, the one thing im looking forward to in the game is gambling for shell passives again

i dont know why but there is something oddly satisfying getting that mythic max roll speed stat

[rancid quail]

That and having perfect modules it's gonna be the real grind, not beating the stage

[full verge]

no ones mad about that

or at least idk who is

[tall cairn]

Shells do feel like one of the funniest parts of the game

[full verge]

Hell i want like 40 different sets

if they add 5 new sets every 6 months id be happy

[rancid quail]

They just choose to make getting the good stuff difficult instead of making the stage itself difficult

[full verge]

this, is also true, if they lower the rng of getting modules they would 100% need to increase the difficulty

[manic dust]

I mean ive read so much ppl whining about inf dropping 7 sets

[tall cairn]

Same I just hope they can give us more that 1 piece for every ten energy because it’s a strategy game we need to get the chance to build varied sets and pieces

[manic dust]

When you need 3 different sets for your units end game

[rancid quail]

The found a balance and we just need to wait to see if they made the right decision or not

[full verge]

you get a 2x event each month

[manic dust]

You get double drops in hell 4

Which can be further double on 2x

[full verge]

yea every unit can have a 12 an 8 and a 6 set

[tall cairn]

Yeah for modules though I feel like the 2x needs to be the standard and we get and 2x of that for an event because you want to build a lot of different sets and test them in different comps.

[rancid quail]

If u get a good 2 modules piece for a 12 or 6 set it's useless but if u get it for an 8 it's still usable

[tall cairn]

I made it to Nightmare 3 and I am pretty sure I only got one piece per 10 energy

[open shard]

@full verge we are friends with Alex now!

[manic dust]

Well that explains it xD

[full verge]

well we aint enemies

[manic dust]

Nm is early game pretty much

[tall cairn]

We are if we meet in PVP lol

[open shard]

Ohaaaa

[full verge]

id refresh 9 times to make sure i can fight you more than once XD

[tall cairn]

Lol

[static bear]

We don’t even know that inferno is the end difficulty lol

[patent umbra]

bruh... you can't say this, when less than 5m before you said you only reached Lv20. Do you even know the chances for gear drops on Hell? It's like 100x more difficult to get the pieces you want because there's the double amount of sets and the chance to drop 2Matrix instead of 3Matrix.
"The rng isn't that bad" at level 20* <- kinda true

[tall cairn]

I never said I only reached level 20 where did you get that from? I was LV.31 before I stopped playing. Oh I see what you mean that wasn't refering to my level it was refering to Grim Pursuit I only did the first 20 levels or stages or whatever you want to called it of it because I had stopped playing before doing more of them. As for what stage I reached for the bosses it was Nightmare 3.

[untold helm]

The player level cap is 100 so it’s definitely not

[surreal pewter]

honestly I think the endgame engagement will be fine. It's going to take a while for most players to actually be able to clear inferno, let alone auto it. There's also the frequent event gamemodes that are rotating in, GvG, PvP, and the 3 endgame modes to do. There's a ton of content upfront and recurring longterm

[smoky cypress]

Its not the variety itself that's the problem, rather than the probability of getting the matrix that you need at the time is. When you're building your DPS, do you love getting wellspring and cure gear instead of onslaught?

[static bear]

Why don’t they just allow you to pick the exact set, main stat, and sub stat that you want after every clear

[smoky cypress]

You think that's a good idea?

[static bear]

No. Absolutely idiotic

[smoky cypress]

Then why type it?

[static bear]

Because that’s what you’re saying. Let’s make it easier to get our gear. Why not just let us pick the exact piece we want?

[upper quest]

cuz thats how your msg is reading

[smoky cypress]

No, I think you simply dont have the whole context cus I think the idea is great. It serves as a part of the solution to the original problem that OP raised which is the lack of variance in teams could impact player engagement.

Previously we agreed that one solution could be that at mid-late game (lvl 40/50 and beyond), inferno dungeons can get different versions of it with different kinds mechanics to promote use of other units, like no DOT teams allowed or no turnmeter manipulation allowed, for example. Then having a smaller pool of gear is the reward for clearing the more difficult version. It serves to solve the player engagement problem and team variety problem

Or yea, we can also farm terrormaton for 3 months, hoping for the right matrix to drop

[static bear]

No it doesn’t because YouTube exists.

[static bear]

You played any other gacha?

That is every single game.

[smoky cypress]

Are we playing "every single game" here or etheria restart?

[static bear]

Great counter point. Fantastic

[smoky cypress]

I dont know if we're in the same page here or not

[upper quest]

to be fair the gear rng in this game is a little bit too wild, no reason to drop 2 matrix pieces from inferno

im all for another level above inferno if i can farm something without 2 matrix pieces

[smoky cypress]

Listen, I played HSR for a year and what made me quit is the gear gacha system. If you're arguing that this game doesnt have to innovate away from that, you will not have my support

[upper quest]

you should look at SW and E7 not at HSR

[smoky cypress]

What's different?

I played SW, I also hope for the right spd rolls

[upper quest]

im not sure i have never played hsr, but e7 and SW are the direct competition

to be fair, cant believe im saying this but e7 has less rng in the gear

[smoky cypress]

SW has a simpler gear gacha system if i remember correctly, cus this game has both gear stat rolls AND matrixes in combination that you have to worry about

[upper quest]

im with you about the fact that the rng is a bit too wild here, i just dont think making the pool of possible matrix smaller is the call, i think we need to get rid of 2 matrix pieces

[smoky cypress]

This is a step in the right direction i agree with you

Better than "youtube exists"

[upper quest]

the gear need the rng for the longevity of the game, i just dont think giving us trash pieces at inferno is good for the game, you would never ever use a 2 piece unless you are going for a 8/8/8 build, and im pretty sure that kind of build will not be optimal on 90-95% of the animus

[smoky cypress]

Yea i agree, i hope they do that

[patent umbra]

hyper is literally talking about a feature that is almost the same in both games. whatever type of game doesn't even matter tbh - to their point, anyway

[upper quest]

you are probably right

i can probably read on hsr gearing to understand the point

[patent umbra]

it's basically the same, except a bit worse. imagine the module system but on all 6 gear pieces (with a slight bit more of rng)

[smoky cypress]

Imagine farming 6+ months without getting the piece that you want

[upper quest]

yes 2-4

[patent umbra]

it's also what made me stop playing hsr, I love the characters and the story, but the grind is kinda too much, specially for a side game (which it was for me)

I quit a long long time ago though xd

[smoky cypress]

Yea same with me and i never looked back

[patent umbra]

true

[uneven viper]

Can't compare a 7 year old game to a game at launch. The ecosystem can't be the same or it'd die so fast

But seanbs idea of getting rid of flat right feels nice since youre limited by refreshes

Think hard and you'll figure it out

[upper quest]

removing flats on right side is a similar idea to mine, curb a little bit of the rng at the top end, cuz its a little (not a lot very slightly) too rng atm, tho removing flat stats is probably making it more consistent then removing 2 matrix pieces.

[full verge]

yea theres a varied array of different issues facing end game, Like matrixs drop with only 2 sub stats vs 4, it seems like the wierdest way to extend the grind, My post really in a nutshell is talking about how to extend the grind without needing to resort to just infinite layers of RNG

I use the word difficulty in my post probably incorrectly, where I think getting to Inferno is to fast and then we just sit there for months hoping for a good drop

Other games take longer to get to the top dungeon but the drops are on a whole better

yes this is another layer to the silly rng

[upper quest]

i think the current top end is too easy

just make it harder and give us better drops

[full verge]

Basically you need to drop

The right set
the right main stat
the right number of matrixes
the right sub stats
4 sub stats
you then need to roll into what you want

just getting the first 2 is so unlikely

[upper quest]

you also need the right number of matrix

[full verge]

the odds of getting a 5 spd roll on a speed set with Say crit rate main stat,

Is like 1 in 30 billion

maybe worse

[upper quest]

probably worse

you also need the rolls to roll high too

[full verge]

because its 7^6^9^17x4^52*20

[upper quest]

the difference between 12 and 18 is huge

[full verge]

yea at least sets here are designed generically

[upper quest]

to be fair it will probably roll 4% atk 4% er and 2 speed, last one will be flat def

tell me if i called it

wait thats actually nice

i usualy speed check these

but yeah something very similar will happen in etheria

just worse

[smoky cypress]

Thats sounds like something that could come several months later

[upper quest]

hopefully, i think a way to increase matrix count will fix a lot of the issues

[smoky cypress]

Im glad to see so many people agree that the gear gacha system could use some improvements. It can straight up make players quit. All im saying is allow players to use their brains and/or build a variety of teams with the incentive of better rates on the gear they want. People who like banging their heads on the wall mindlessly can keep doing their thing, no offense to @static bear

[vivid crane]

weren’t the devs working by on a feature where you can restrict a certain substat from upgrading?

[full verge]

not once have i heard this

[smoky cypress]

Neither do I..

[smoky cypress]

Do you have a source? Like an official announcement straight from the devs? Coming from the dupes in rta drama, we should all be more careful about spreading unverified info around

[sharp cloud]

Neither have I

[vivid crane]

it was in their livestream

[full verge]

idk i watched them all and dont remember this

[vivid crane]

nvm went back to where I heard it and it was just a misinterpretation by a cc, he heard “block” when the host was talking about unlocking stats when upgrading gear lol

[full verge]

ah fair

[vivid crane]

yeah definitely sounds too good to be true

[full verge]

i was like maybe a CC talking out his ass again haha

[vivid crane]

tbf the host did pronounce it as block that even automated cc recognizes it but convo is now off-topic so i’ll probably leave it at there

[untold helm]

The problem is, it’s similar to e7 in gear RNG but in e7 you NEVER have to stop farming, you can buy stamina until you need a second mortgage

Whereas here you are gated by 10 refresh a day

[quasi hare]

Why is this comvo still continuing lol

[full verge]

cause we have nothing else to do

why do you care?

[quasi hare]

Because there is other funny feedbacks to join

[full verge]

im in like 13 already

[manic dust]

It was gachasmack xD

[exotic herald]

Lies to make the game look better
Sounds normal in gacha sphere
Even more so for lies to make other games look bad
I have seen plenty in this server
And the liars haven't even tried playing the games

https://tenor.com/view/goblin-slayer-stressed-priestess-anime-you-get-used-to-it-gif-13752108