Active Shooter

[violet wyvern]

suggested, dunno the devs stance on this

[gloomy lance]

yeah i feel ya, lot of devs had this idea but wouldnt implement it into a game cause school shootings are f*** disturbing ofcourse, but these anti-terrorists missions would be really awesome.

[pale quest]

it'd be a bold move cotton

[sand crater]

If we did this we would definitly get enough media coverage for exposure🤣 but since we still want to release for the quest I dont think we are gonna be able to pull this off

nor do we really want to

[oblique blade]

quest 2 kids would rather shoot the fuckin kids and teacher's instead of helping them

[sand crater]

hahahah very true

[oblique blade]

tbh really wish that we had a system to punish these fucks

[gloomy lance]

facts this 😂😂😂😂

[violet wyvern]

and if some people here have perhaps been in a school shooting before, even just seeing it as an option could trigger some bad memories that they'd rather not remember

[oblique blade]

and the only thing we can do is straight up cap their ass before they do more dumb shit

[tribal tusk]

what

[violet wyvern]

what

[tribal tusk]

blud needs to be investigated

[violet wyvern]

what

[tribal tusk]

he has a motive

[violet wyvern]

pears

[tribal tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/sexy-pear-wink-frutas-gif-12872328

[violet wyvern]

orange

[devout canyon]

Personally I think a school shooting mission isn't a horrible idea in a game that isn't trying to glorify violence against innocent people, but rather promotes the idea of safety and tactics against evil people like terrorists and school shooters, maybe if it includes a PSA and graphic content warning specifically for the mission kinda like how CoD even tries to warn players about graphic content before entering it, if a triple-A studio can get away with stuff like No Russian I think a smaller scale indie dev project would be safe, tbh if you ask me killing terrorists in the middle east is not much of a darker more disturbing concept given they were actually known historically to train their children to kill other humans at very young ages so I mean, you tell me what's "worse", having to face bad dudes threatening innocent people is a dark concept we all must face some point in our lives 🤔

(Plus maybe if the public saw a "VR school-shooter deleter" it would make more people realize the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun, not to get too political but hey 😛 )

[violet wyvern]

i guarantee someone will trick the news with this game like someone did with arma 💀

[gloomy lance]

This is actually what I tought

[devout canyon]

I asked my edgy friend with the spiciest takes his thoughts and his only response was "Sounds like fun and games until you start stealing the shooter's kills", I am both disturbed and humored at the same time and there's gotta be a special place in hell for us 👉😎👉

But tbh there's always going to be some goofball who does messed up shiz with a game, has nobody here seen the montages of people yeeting grenades at the baby in MW 2019? At the end of the day it's all just pixels and polygons imho

[gloomy lance]

But I mean, not even a school map with alive civvies on it, just terrorists or shooters, an active shooter situation, Ready Or Not has done the same

[devout canyon]

True, heck isn't there deliberately a mission in Ready Or Not where you shoot up a pedo ring or something?

[gloomy lance]

True

[devout canyon]

I mean dark stuff is dark stuff man I ain't offended by any of it xD

[gloomy lance]

Active Shooter

[devout canyon]

I just mean to point out that other games have done some darker stuff than school shootings and those games get put on shelves at Walmart;P

[tribal tusk]

"Would be cool if they add a school getting shot up" is all the evidence that the police need

[gloomy lance]

The idea and concept is dark, but its the sad reality, I think playing in VR as a cop/armed force on the hunt for a shooter is a immersive concept

[gloomy lance]

I really do sound like a terrorist rn HAHAHAH

Did not mean it like that 😂😂😂

[devout canyon]

I mean didn't they put the term "based" into a list of dangerous words? XD

[devout canyon]

But yes, I agree it's about immersion and the stress and tension of the situations that makes them so engaging at times, 2D screen games rarely immerse me but even a VR game with cartoony low poly visuals can get me more immersed and feeling the real sweat running down my face in Pavlov matches is like a high better then secks xD

The only two games I can think of as far as shooters that gripped me immersively were Ready or Not and Insurgency

And ngl, as someone who values people being able to train however they are able to, be it in a premium home defense training course or combat simulations like VR, knowledge is power and training is training and being even SOMEWHAT prepared to have to defend your life because you played VR and airsoft a ton compared to being someone who's never even held a nerf blaster before, my money is on the airsofting VR nerd in that situation and that can save lives ;D

[quiet garnet]

Lock em up!

[thin cairn]

im sorry, but game creators have been arrested for including school shootings in games

[stuck inlet]

source please

[graceful salmon]

I would say a different kind of active shooter not a school

Because ready or not has an active shooter mode so

[sturdy haven]

This is a land mine. Bit too dark and heavy for my liking.

Someone can maybe mod this.

[steady brook]

I don’t think I could ever make this, too dark and disturbing for me

[sturdy haven]

Yeah it only evokes sadness from me, even though it might be compelling to play from a righteous perspective the whole setting is so sad I can't imagine you'd leave a game feeling happy at all

[worn jetty]

I dislike this as a concept. Let’s not

The last thing a game needs is programmed dead children

[thin cairn]

my friend told me idk

[stuck inlet]

lol

[boreal hamlet]

If there’s one thing I would NOT want to make for the workshop, it would be a school for CT scenarios.

[modern slate]

This is basically a RoN mission imo and this game is not SWAT

[split estuary]

3 actually.
The Spider
Valley of The Dolls
And Sinuous Trail

[devout canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/based-based-department-giga-chad-gigachad-gif-25737218

[boreal hamlet]

Custom content makes anything possible, the question is whether it’s ethical or not.

[outer knot]

Active shooter scenarios are one thing. Specifically a school tho? This is one of those things that could drive a good audience away from the game. Its becoming such a common thing in the US that it seems a bit too soon to include something that dark.

[ancient epoch]

Gives me a valid reason to turn on them

Just sayin

[oblique blade]

turn on what?

[boreal hamlet]

It’s not so much about it being a thing in the US.

It’s about the possibility at all.

The era of hyperrealism has begun, meaning that we to consider and decide upon the ethics all at once.

It’s not that there’s an active shooter scenario, or a school map.

It’s the fact that it’s technologically possible for someone to not so much combine those things but rather generally simulate scenarios of stochastic terrorism with the most advanced fidelity yet.

If we, say, hardcoded some stuff to ensure that you could not commit atrocities, it would enforce the ethics and maintain continuity, at cost of losing agency.

In such cases, there would be not be much to worry about.

The question is about how to handle agency, continuity and ethics in this specific environment.

I am personally very excited to see what we could pull off with mass shooter scenarios and would love to see every setting possible, HOWEVER none of that will happen if we don’t find a way to handle this ethically.

TLDR: before we do any of this we have to figure out how to get agency without atrocity

When working on these games, simulations and custom content, you are creating a specific experience for other users.

If you make a mass shooter scenario, in which you cannot commit certain types of violence, it fundamentally defines the nature of the experience.

Having the ability to shoot teammates and/or civilians has the intended effect that you can fuck up.
You can thereby make mistakes that feel as severe as the simulation allows.

Of course the side effect is that it also allows for simulations of mass murder; of stochastic terrorism.

We do NOT want this to be a training ground for violent misanthropic nomads.

The opposite end would be to make it impossible to commit wrongful violence.

This solves the issue of abuse by removing agency, and “why would you even shoot your team” is a relatively good argument in the context of intentional massacre.

[outer knot]

i didnt mean its about the US, just said that because we all know its growing more common in comparison. Apart from that fact, like, just why a school?

Ready or not has active shooter scenarios in many different settings, is a school really neccesary?

even if you make the argument that you're the one saving people, I just cant get behind why you'd want that specifaically

[worn jetty]

This is literally the point brought up when they found out Eric Harris and Dylan Clebold were found to have made the layout of Columbine in DOOM

[boreal hamlet]

Yeah.

[worn jetty]

And similar conversations were had with MW2 of course. Though this time we’re the “good guys,” but still, it’s not ethically right to portray events that are genuinely traumatic and impactful for the general public. I don’t think there’s a competent person in the US who hasn’t been affected by a mass casualty event in one way or another

I personally understand the appeal for these types of scenarios, but I also believe they don’t fit the game, and I also find the general concept of a game that permits mass murder in this day and age to be abhorrent, especially in a scenario like a school. Just my take on this

[outer knot]

like i said earlier, I'm not against these scenarios, but doing them in a school doesn't have to be a part of it. Its a big test of peoples ethics that we don't need. thatll be my final take on the matter.

[boreal hamlet]

A solution might be that these scenarios could only be played under strict supervision and with all actions/gameplay logged?

It can give us all the realism necessary, and all desired realism, while ensuring this abuse doesn’t matter.

Downside: requires a lot of resources and constant upkeep. (Might still be worth it, just mind how hard it will be!)

Maybe there’s another way, in which case please tell me, because I’m running out of ideas.

[boreal hamlet]

Now, yes, my brain requires some SCP foundation memetic amnesia agent to forget the awful stuff I had to research for this topic, but I am confident that this would be an ethical solution to allow us to do active shooter scenarios.

[tribal tusk]

no

[boreal hamlet]

Could you please elaborate?

[outer knot]

Idk if you're trying to find a solution to an active shooter scenario, or a school shooter scenario.

[boreal hamlet]

Either should work if any and all gameplay would be supervised and logged completely.

There won’t be another Columbine Doom or Norwegian MW2 equivalent if we make sure that any on-the-edge stuff like active shooter / mass shooter / school shooter / other sensitive scenarios can only be experienced in a strictly controlled environment.

[stuck inlet]

supervision

[boreal hamlet]

Yes.

[tribal tusk]

no

[stuck inlet]

https://tenor.com/view/john-jonah-jameson-lol-laughing-hysterically-laughing-out-loud-funny-gif-17710543

[tribal tusk]

i will do what i please inside the school

[boreal hamlet]

Do you want to argue / contribute or do you want to meme?

[tribal tusk]

i want to argue

[stuck inlet]

yes

[outer knot]

Idk why we’re so insistent on wanting a school shooting level, it gets to a point where “realism” isn’t really a valid excuse. I don’t get the hopes to see a school shooting in the closest thing you can get to real life.

What reason would a school active shooter be different from an active shooter somewhere else other than you want it to be in a school

[tribal tusk]

they have motives

[sturdy haven]

Dev's have spoken, not happening

[boreal hamlet]

we are talking about custom content, we know that the developers won’t add it

[sturdy haven]

This is game-suggestions for the developers.

[boreal hamlet]

We do not yet have a dedicated channel for custom content suggestions.

[sturdy haven]

That's correct.

Mods should lock this thread