game-discussion

[eternal surge]

crazy how bows are always gonna be overpowered

[vale patrol]

it is early access? what r u even on about

[formal moon]

75% of the player base in eu is ranger. They're very powerful

[torpid radish]

They just need GS match making above a certain GS level

[fluid oxide]

Just dont push them blindly. easy solution

[muted lake]

Hello, do we know when the next reset should be ?

[uneven marlin]

bro fix the health pots or make sitting down heal you faster, whats the points of even fighting if you have to sit for 40 min because pots are useless and sitting down you might as well go walk the dog, take out the trash, mop the floors, make a sandwich, come back to see you only healed a little bit so then leave to grocery store to shopping, come back stand up and get 360 no scoped by a ranger

[fluid oxide]

Gear score matchmaking is such a bad idea. leaves no chance to snowball and thats no fun 😦 Let people with no gear kill that full purple chad who cant hit a swing for the life of him smh.

[formal moon]

What are you gonna do when the circle forces you or they push and drop you with triple. You just go back to breaking vases in gc mate

[vale patrol]

apparently they plan on every 3 months i believe

[muted lake]

Ye but isnt the next one shorter with the fixing stuff ?

[main raven]

Game needs a wipe like, right now

[torpid radish]

Until you hit a Certain GS then GS match making shouldnt be a thing once you hit that threshold you should que with other players with the same gear score or higher

[fluid oxide]

Bite the bullet just take a hell portal. if your not playing GC SO many portals open if you cant get a escape take a hell, run into zone to get one if you have to and quit whining after running head first into a team who can play.

[vale patrol]

no idea tbh havent seen anything from iron mace myself yet

[twin spear]

right now the wipe is not on a schedule so expect wipes to be somewhat random with certain updates

[limber verge]

You think they're just going to stay the way they are forever? You're a little dense.

[muted lake]

Ye like the last one so, thanks for awnsers guys

[sonic lagoon]

yeesh calling someone dense after seeing one statement

[formal moon]

Then get shot trying to open a portal...you have the game sense of a day 1 player

[torn imp]

Shana tovah u’metukah, chat. Many blessing to you all

[torpid radish]

A wipe is needed soon to rid the game of the + to all attribute gear

[fluid oxide]

Bruh if you dont know how to find a portal and not get shot your more headstrong then I imagined. sometimes its just a skill issue

[uneven marlin]

did you not play 1st wipe, by the end of the day sweats had max gear it doesnt matter lol

[torpid radish]

It matters because there is gear in the game that shouldnt be in the game still from previous patches, or they need to figure out how to revert changes to gear that palyers already have.

[eternal surge]

every single raid i run into a ranger i just give up because theres no feasible way to fight them before they can spam arrows into you

[fluid oxide]

Its because people farm gear from the dead servers during their downtimes like singapore for example. most players ive met who are geared do that its kinda sad tbh they cant play so they have to go into dead lobbies lol.

[uneven marlin]

oh i see what youre saying there

[vale patrol]

true

[muted lake]

Well actually noticing what kind of stuff are broken (like before rapier nerf) and stacking up some of thoes items even lower rarity, is part of the game

[fluid oxide]

Oh you mean how people still have +3 all attribute rings and stuff and sell it for a HEFTY price.

[eternal surge]

100% agree with that

[fading pasture]

Please nerf ranger , please nerf horseman’s axe, thanks

[grand dew]

rogues are way worse than rangers

[sacred knoll]

we should honestly wipe gear pretty soon

[vale patrol]

why does everyone thing rouges r so crazy like if bro dosent catch u straight off invis he probably dies unless ur just getting skill diffed

[torpid radish]

I must say though playing in pre 15 lobbys is a lot more fun now. I dont even play my characters past level 15. Players have to soley rely on skill and the gear they have found.

[grand dew]

might have to do with the worst people playing them

[muted lake]

Yea overall the rogue are dead without invis, the only problem is they MS sometimes when they have space to run away from most clases without any skill involved, but they will still get nearly / or OS by a barb or a falshion in the head even geared xd

[graceful storm]

make merchant kits great again

[torpid radish]

Maybe we just need to shut down the Trade and let players get gear for themselves.

[lost gulch]

yeah people who play rogue don't know how to play mechanically complex games so they just hit q and e

[uncut bobcat]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/471139/quivers-for-rangers

[fading pasture]

I don’t know why whenever someone brings up how rangers should get nerfed, the first thing they say is oh rogues should get nerfed, like bro they already did to the ground lmfao

[vale patrol]

i wouldnt even argue that this game is mechanically complex jsut weird and fiiky at times but mayeb rouges would think so

[grand dew]

I didn't say either should get nerfed, I just said rogues are awful and played by awful people. That's all lol

Oh and that they're worse than rangers

[muted lake]

The thing is low gear rogue is trash and full stuff is complete different game

[torpid radish]

I play all classes perhaps you should try to venture out of the comfort zone?

[formal moon]

Farming dead servers is what gold sellers do. The majority of ppl just play the game

[fading pasture]

Getting shot from all the way across the map on ruins by rangers sitting on the top of the castle is ridiculous

[grand dew]

I also play all classes, rogue bad. It 'aint complicated

[muted lake]

Thas kinda why they make fake walls so they can only do it where the bridge is

[torpid radish]

Rogues die very easy and if you played one you'd know how to defend against them. Rangers need to have a damage drop for every 5 to 10 meters the arrow flies.

[white sorrel]

I've played all classes except for rouge, so I can't say much about rouge since I don't understand everything about it.

[dull frigate]

nerf fighter. total crutch class.

[sonic lagoon]

fighter been in the aight tier since pdr nerf, thought they feel unfair with ranged weapons just like rangers

[grand dew]

Y'know, just because I don't like rogue players doesn't mean I die to rogues a lot or haven't played rogue.
People can not like classes/the people who play them

[formal moon]

Fighter has been petty mid for awhile tbh

[mortal talon]

Now this is exactly how to fairly nerf ranger. Perfect suggestion imo.

[winged prawn]

Lobbies filled with rogues and rangers and this dude wants to nerf fighter

[muted lake]

No one actually think about a cleric nerf ? the class is overall busted (aside of being boring to play)

[fading pasture]

Dog…

[grand dew]

tbh I don't think range needs a nerf
Even with cleric unless you're in a terrible spot you can usually do something to use environment to close the gap

My tank cleric does fine against rangers

[torpid radish]

Just saying it takes one to know one.

[mortal talon]

Boring!?!? Cleric is fun. Brew master. Smite… yeeeeeeeet

[winged prawn]

You can literally join any ruins match with a grey longbow, completely naked and be competitive. not sure what you are talking about tbh

[graceful storm]

much more importamt things to worry about than nerfing cleric

[muted lake]

Ok maybe the yolo cleric brew smite & like hammer

[formal moon]

Ranger slowing the same speed as getting hit by 2h weapon is just nutty

[grand dew]

To be totally fair, I almost only play solo/goblin caves- ruins map design was busted for rogues before though.
So I imagine some clever redesign work could solve a large part of the issue

But fair point, I wasn't considering ruins

[torpid radish]

yeah if they have the perk

[mortal talon]

Omg you’re talking dirty to me now. Throw in +10 weapon dmg and bless. Woooooooo

[muted lake]

Idk the class can basicaly do everything exept run fast & hit from really far away, not stuffed they can trishot barb with staff & smite, with gear they can heal / do high dps with the blind / aoe thing, tank a lot

[formal moon]

Even with out perk. The speed debuff is the same

[winged prawn]

I frequently duo Crypts to go cheese hell on a naked ranger. Im not gunna say class is busted. having the ability to use spear is madness imo. Mostly the bows need balanced imo

[grand dew]

I catch rangers with holy strike a lot with my cleric tbh. But goblin caves makes that very doable

[mortal talon]

The flash bang spell is so wild. People freak out when u hit em with it too.

[torpid radish]

Show me where you read this because im not a 100% certain

[formal moon]

Read the wiki on the hit penalty

[lofty ginkgo]

Bow meta is super fun guys

[muted lake]

Well once i played fighter nice stuff like 130+ hp at least 20/30% magi resist & a cleric just killed me with 1 judgement 1 holy strike 💀

[grand dew]

It's interesting, cause solo I'd say ranger is in a very good spot. Not op/goes down a LOT in high roller

Idk how you'd balance it for crypts aside from just reworking the map to have less massive line-of-sight advantages without gutting ranger in solos

[torpid radish]

i shall do that thanks

[mortal talon]

I’ve experienced that as a rogue far too many times.

[rapid arrow]

when is ironmace nerfing rogue this class is aids

[formal moon]

Wizard fire ball splash can do 80 dmg. Not even direct hits and you don't need much gear to get their

[winged prawn]

If a class can join a game, completely naked with a white/green weapon and be competitive. It needs nerfing. Simple.

[muted lake]

The only way to scare cleric, is go barb / proximity on > music on full volume like "bumpy ride" talk dirty to them and barb go brrrr

[mortal talon]

Damage drop off for distance is the best suggestion I’ve seen yet tbh. It would push ranger closer to mid range battles.

[warm hearth]

Dawg you ain't dropping shit in comp with only a white or green cause everyone's geared to the teeth

[winged prawn]

I find it easy to run rangers down in the caves as well on many classes. You honestly dont see too many rangers in GC. Ruins and crypts though... its like Rogues in GC. they are everywhere

[rapid arrow]

literally the easiest class to counter lol

[grand dew]

I agree, but I think it'd be painful in GC they're in a good place atm

[golden grove]

new matchmaking is breaking the game

[formal moon]

You def can. I play 3 rangers sometimes with my friends and it's nasty af

[twin spear]

how so

[teal folio]

Experiencing a potential bug, where +knowledge items do not apply said knowledge.. is This happening to others?

[muted lake]

Yes kinda, because you see more often full geared guy in normal just trying to kill people in lvl 15+ and below you see smurf who just abuse lower level to go red / boss / kill all while nearly full stuff lvl 5 xd

[twin spear]

if it says +anything then that item needs to be equipped as in armor slot or with weapons it needs to be in hand not just in slot

[rapid arrow]

if u have a hard time fighting ranger then literally strafe and ur good can one or two shot most rangers with hits to the head with most grey weapons just strafe and get in close

[grand dew]

Ranger is already pretty solid in soo/goblin caves. Be it high roller or normal.
Like- they don't dominate lobbies, they're fairly easy to engage, even with my cleric I can fight a ranger in goblin caves 9/10 times using environment.

If they lose any damage they're gonna be useless solo without serious gear investment

[chrome spear]

Deleting this game. They need to rebalance this crap. It's so bad. Can't even have fun, either play the meta or lose every time. Yawn

[mortal talon]

Yea it would you’re right but honestly ranger in GC would still do well in mid range. Plus spear perk is nutty if someone closes the gap. I think what tilts most folks with ranger is those long range narrow corridors they can lock down.

[formal moon]

White long bow does 60 dmg to the body of a dummy. So around 40 ish to a geared player

[winged prawn]

This is probably the right call. I cant imagine myself playing more than another week or two.

[golden grove]

every lobby in normals is full of juicers and people are running no gear or juicer gear in high roller, its one or the other.

[teal folio]

@twin spear okay so a plus 2 knowledge mace isn't actually gonna give me +2 knowledge?

[grand dew]

maybe as long as the dropoff starts at mid-range, there's only like 2-3 spots in goblin caves where rangers can even take advantage of "real" range yknow? lol

[muted lake]

Ye since you'll get thoes tryhards kids who are afraid of going HR (dont mind the one who go geared in normal to do BOSS not rush players) so why not going HR no gear its only 50g
should be doing a Q for player who dont have lvl 15 caracter yet and when you get it its another Q, but 3 Q would be too much splitted payers i think

[formal moon]

There are plenty of low rollers with no juicers. Think ppl just get rolled by an omega team and lose gear then are functionality rats vs greenies

[twin spear]

yeah since its not in your hand while casting

[teal folio]

@twin spear fuck me

[mortal talon]

Yea for sure! I agree. Make drop off start at like +20m or something. I think one module is generally 30m ish? So most of a single module would be fair imo.

[eternal surge]

imma be honest guys, ive had this game for two days and it feels garbage to play compared to in the first couple playtests

[winged prawn]

your feelings are accurate.

[rapid arrow]

because they trashed the game lol its no different except they took all the balancing out

[formal moon]

Probably because you're playing in the middle of a wipe with legacy gear still out that is BUSTED

[grand dew]

Or just leave goblin caves alone and only apply to crypts lol, but nah that's silly

I guess I need to start playing ranger in duos/trios eh? My solo ranger is very 50/50 lol

[muted lake]

If you talk about the gameplay, even if a lots of people dont agree etc they are trying a lots of stuff for balance, wich a lots r not good even to try
and if you talk about the lags etc, sadly they are probly on perma attack by nexon

[proven token]

anybody knows when the new patch is coming? its unplayable with 8/9 rogues in the lobbies

[mortal talon]

Brrruhhh yes play ranger in crypt dude. It’s nutty there. Sometimes we go 3 rangers and it’s just ridiculous. It feels toxic lol but it’s fun.

[muted lake]

Solo ranger if not full geared in gob can be pretty hard, especially when you can get killed easly by bare fist barb rushing you

[formal moon]

Probably not for a while. Beating rogue's is just having spatial awareness and common sense

[sonic lagoon]

gob cave is more qc than the other maps but there are areas where rangers fuck, like the rafters or the mining area southwest

[mortal talon]

Yea fr fr. GC is probably the least ranger friendly map. It’s still solid there BUT it shines in crypts.

[grand dew]

I guess I gotta give it a go. My solo ranger has loads of gold to burn haha
High roller mining alt

@muted lake no kidding- also warlocks. Ranger is super squishy and caves makes it feel like a challenge. No feeling OP when people at always 10-15m away lol

[formal moon]

Ppl are mad at rogue because it's kit is suited to solo play. Where the others aren't really, aside from warlock

[mortal talon]

Yea bro I’d you’re looted deff give it a go. Solo runs in crypts as ranger is rewarding but hit up gathering hall and try to make a 3 man.

[eternal surge]

shields (yes im pointing it where i should be) dont do anything because online connection is a thing, theres a gargantuan balance problem between all classes, loot in every raid ive done so far has been horrendous, mob movement speed imo is too fast in some cases (mainly talking about trying to kite them when you have to fight players), extracts sometimes feel too slow imo as well, multiple weapon types feel completely useless when compared to the more meta weapon types and so on. i could probably list more if i play for a few more days, but considering this is my experience and i have all of this to say about the game within 2 days, i dont think im wrong to say the current state of the game is horrendous. just want to add as well, i havent made it to level 15 yet which i hear is much worse, and i dont think ive dealt with anyone wearing insane gear either, although i could be wrong.

[muted lake]

Ye, there is some part of the GC wich ranger are pretty broken, but overall (to me) barb rules the CG so easly, not my main class i just go yolo 30g build proximity perma ON music full volume and crush most of lobies lol

[uncut bobcat]

wraith was able to kill me while i was looking down at the ground. i thought you could avoid their attack. did they patch that? (yes i was looking down in time)

[grand dew]

Sounds like bad rng and a shit connection to me. You're also super late into the wipe

[lost gulch]

if you are swinging a weapon then looking down he can hit your arms if you dont do it right

[mortal talon]

I agree. Barbs get respect in GC.

[pulsar galleon]

Tomorrow’s patch is gonna be litty trust

[muted lake]

Kids getting tromatize when a barb not using game sound is rushing them

[formal moon]

Tomorrow's "patch" lol

[grand dew]

I can't play barb anymore, they took drums from us and it just makes me sad to pop on my barb lol

6-drum naked barb was a goood time

[formal moon]

Wp rupture drums was funny af and slightly goated

[grand dew]

Oh it was absolutely broken and stupid, but god what a fantastic time

[muted lake]

Drum barb was just broken & unskilled af (even tho barb still really strong) like achile strike nerf is really good as well, the damages were too dumb, you could use torch to kill people xd

[toxic basin]

iS RESET HAPPINING THURSDAY?

[eternal surge]

well if rng can be god awful for about 25 matches straight with loot, maybe its not bad rng and maybe its just bad loot in general. i also find that about 100% of the time i get loot that my class cant use, and when i swap to the classes i keep getting spammed with loot for, it will never again give me loot for my class. thats been my experience in almost 100% of my play time so far, and it feels so terrible because of how beyond horrible the starter gear is

[odd aspen]

when is wipe?

[grand dew]

I just miss throwing 6-drums, picking them back up, throwing them some more.
Nothing beat that THUNK sound

and landing a headshot kill was so satisfying.
Might be time to make an all-drum bard for shits and giggles

[muted lake]

There is a bard player HR gob with 3 drums totally wiping lobies, forgot his name on youtube the vids are incredible to watch

[grand dew]

Sounds like a legend lol

[muted lake]

its "Aikira" i'll just looked up my history, saw his last vid this guy deserve to be watched

[livid geode]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493217/rouge-hide-only-in-shadows

How about make the Rouge Hide skill only work if you are in shadows, Hide -> Hide in Shadow

[muted lake]

That would probly kill the class

[boreal pelican]

lmao thats never gonna work

[twin spear]

no the best thing to do is add to the perk that lets you move while invis to make it so the hide has a 20% shorter duration with the perk but still lets you move

[pulsar galleon]

Can we get some serious suggestions in here ffs. Like adding the creature https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/491426/add-the-creature

[grand dew]

guy's dropping so much gold on better drums. Okay I'm already interested lol

Thanks for the recommendation, this is god tier bard haha

[muted lake]

yes when you see him picking up that legendary & purple drum 💀 happy to help you discover and him get a new viewer xd

[reef tangle]

if you want to trade it for something else on Steam -DM me, i really want to try DaD

[grand dew]

jesus, his cast time is insane

[fair thistle]

all you trash plague rats on rogue need to gtfo rogue iron mace needs to make it so only people who maxed level 20 in steam playtest can go rogue

[sonic lagoon]

betcha don't use headphones huh

[muted lake]

What they need to do is add "i was hiding" quote from twitch (league of legends) when rogue gets out of hide

[fiery socket]

bro i just got teamkilled by 2 barbs stupid motherfuckers

[livid geode]

there ia a perk that lets you move 10 steps

[proven token]

right thats why all the lobbies are melee and they announced that its op and theyd fix it. but hey...just use tracking and spacial awareness rofl

[boreal pelican]

its pretty simple, just nerf how long hide lasts significantly

[twin spear]

i know im saying make it so the hide duration is shorter while using that perk

[kindred shoal]

Hey yalls! I was just playing duos with my friend in The Ruins and we killed a freshie rogue that had every single slot in their inventory filled with full Gold Coin Purses... is this some kind of exploit that people are doing? Is there any way I can help troubleshoot how they are doing this so we can get it fixed?

[proven token]

not gonna log in until patch

[muted lake]

Where the purse full of gold or empty ? if empty its just a guy removing them from his stach

[kindred shoal]

They were all full. It was like 2500 gold

[muted lake]

Oh, might be an exploit like the gold key one, yea you probly better make a ticket

[pearl hornet]

sounds like gold duplication? But I have no idea how to do it

[hollow kraken]

an actual tolder could play fighter lol class is so easy mode

[kindred shoal]

Ya seems like a duplication exploit to me as well.. I'll make a ticket and give the info I cna

[primal sedge]

USE down?

[wispy ridge]

me disconnect and catn contnect?

[proven token]

this

[obsidian nimbus]

Anyone feel like Wizard just needs a nerf? like honestly.

[pearl hornet]

poor wizards.... leave them alone 😦

[dense nexus]

Mans its so awesome that you can't retrieve throwing knives love losing bc of that. Real cool arrows are infinitely retrievable but not throwing knives

[pulsar galleon]

The only gripe I have with wizards was that I got hit by a chain lightning that bounced through the ceiling of goblin caves and hit me/the mimic I killed the next floor up tonight. That ended up causing him to kill himself though and I found him later on lol

[obsidian nimbus]

I just 1v3'ed semi geared but still caped up people with a grey spellbook naked you think it needs to be left alone?

[twin spear]

throwables can be picked up if they miss but not if they hit

[dense nexus]

Wow thanks for the information that I already knew which had no relation to my rant

[pearl hornet]

🤷‍♂️ do you want me to start crying about how rangers just run away and shoot arrows? - is their playstyle.... sucks but whatever

[graceful storm]

https://youtu.be/aHlnCkqh3-E?si=HgT6BdrS9ZbjdZMG

[kind halo]

Should it really be a mechanic a guy can spaz his mouse around while running at me so i can only hit his arms kinda weird not game breaking just kind weird

[subtle pawn]

I just think being one shot in general needs to stop happening, particuarly if you have good gear on.

like damage needs to not outscale gear by such a large amount

[white sorrel]

I agree that armor should be more important in the beginning and hard to get insane PDR levels. Naked meta still exists for a reason.

[twin spear]

be easy to fix just by implementing a dimishing return on how much armor rating is converted into PDR

[graceful storm]

If rangers could only use recurve bows I think people would stop complaining so much, longbows just have way too much base damage, then you add gear on top of it and it literally one shots you with plate on

[pulsar galleon]

I think there should be at least 3x as many environmental traps on every map. Around every corner. And 10sec poison dart/1tap Boulder traps. Also when you sit to rest, the creature spawns to stalk you

[graceful storm]

This, and also you should start ticking for damage the second you spawn in and remove healing, and no torches

[white sorrel]

I think that early armor levels, like from 0 to 60 should scale to 30% reduction and it be hard to get past 50% reduction. Instead of the 30% reduction at 170 armor rating which isn't feasible in grey or white gear except for fighter. Even then, that's kinda hard for grey plate armor, pretty sure u still can't get that

[pulsar galleon]

Okay NOW we’re getting somewhere

[wicked linden]

yeah after enough time the traps start to get stale and you never realy run into them if they added traps that chase you like yo usaid a creature that spawns in when you sit down and hunts you would be very nice and unique

[pulsar galleon]

[subtle pawn]

I think rangers shouldn't get triple shot with the long bow. It'd make it alot more balanced and give some of the other skills some use.

[obsidian nimbus]

Deadass quiting this game because of wizards

[wicked linden]

they should get a quad shot or 5 shot you're right because 3 is never enough with the base bow one extra shot could help so much for us rangers 😄

[celest harness]

Literally last 4 ppl in GC holding hands, devs please ban these care bears

[wicked linden]

skill issue, a chad would've taken them head on and demolished them

[pulsar galleon]

What if we held hands in the goblin caves 😳

[gray saffron]

Hey the lfg channel isn't showing for me, does anyone know of a fix?

[wicked linden]

try uninstalling and re-installing

[white sorrel]

I think that armor rating should be buffed at the low end and nerfed a bit more at the high end. Make it so around 60 or 70 armor rating you get around 25-30% physical damage reduction. And have around 150-200 be the new 50% point and have anything higher than that be insanely hard to achieve. Buffing the low end would make people have more of a chance and take less damage. It also gives a reason to wear armor as some classes because usually it's better to just not wear armor since it doesn't give enough of an advantage and weapons scale faster than armor.
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493226/buff-armor-rating-at-the-lowend-and-nerf-the-highend

[sonic lagoon]

I think that plus set bonuses for wearing mostly leather/plate/cloth/class specific gear would be cool

[white sorrel]

That would be interesting, I agree.

[wicked linden]

yeah most games have like 2 / 4 or 4 / 4 pieces of the same type give you +10 movespeed or +5 weapon dmg

[gritty rock]

Play rate for wizard is literally zero right now, you never see them in lobby.

[rapid arrow]

remove ability to move while invisible as a rougue that shit is rtarded

[rapid arrow]

yeah because ironmace cant balance classes for shit

[sick depot]

what is wrong with this game rn, so laggy

[rapid arrow]

insert generic response here about how nexon are attacking them and totally not their fault

[gritty rock]

theres literally no point playing wizard

[main raven]

Why, exactly?

[trim geode]

👍🏻

[vale wyvern]

Wat, wizard is obnoxious still

[raw ore]

incase you havent noticed balancing for this game is a complicated endeavor. not to mention the current balance for the game is based off of playtests that were only a couple days long. alot of the solutions to balance are not straightforward i expect in 3 to 4 months the game is going to have a radical difference in balance and content closer to what the devs envisioned they are trying to roll out the training system and i imagine trying to tweak classes ahead of time so the addition doesnt break the game entirely. thats why i think rogue hasnt seen any nerfs likely other classes are about to receive tools to better fight against rogues,rangers,barbs and wizards.

[wary horizon]

Dont reset levels when yall wipe, leveling is the least fun part of the game

[vivid pendant]

amazing how people think every class is supposed to be balanced for 1v1 against each other 😐
that guy is one salty wench

[brave oracle]

Ironmace has also literally said that they aren't going for balance right now. They are actively experimenting. Also with the amount of content still being worked on the meta will shift a lot, no reason spending to much time balancing everything right now.

[graceful storm]

https://youtu.be/aHlnCkqh3-E?si=HgT6BdrS9ZbjdZMG do something about these hacks

[abstract dune]

based

[vivid pendant]

yea that onepeg guy on youtube had a dev q&a posted yesterday

[raw ore]

i think you should be able to tbh i think every class should be able to have a solid chance against every other class the game shouldnt be rock paper scissors with soon to be 9 different choices that just isnt fun tbh

[tulip shell]

BIG CHANGES NEXT PATCH.
Adding merchant voice lines.
Adding logo animation on client startup.
Adding a new section to the map -currently inaccessible but says coming soon.
Adding more bard hat types.

[graceful storm]

I have not been having fun playing this past week

[coral valve]

Was playing a game with my buddies and he died twoards the end and i managed to pick up 3 of his things. He got an error code and went back to menu with all the gear he had just lost and i escaped with items he had in raid and now i have a 3 of his things and he still has is. Our Cleric who had to take hell portal also got kicked during loading screen and lost the stuff he picked up but kept his gear.

Has anyone else experienced this ?

[vivid pendant]

well there are games that are true FFA and have true balance, i don't think this will ever be their intention/direction for the game

[raw ore]

ya last week i stopped i have been play enderal forgotten stories been scratching that itch

[main raven]

Pre-15 lobbies or post-15? 15+ lobbies are awful

[graceful storm]

Yeah +15 and up lobbies have been garbage

[vivid pendant]

yea experienced it solo, but the other way around, escaped but disconnected
lost everything i had escaped with

[tulip shell]

Potions yes because they are a buff effect over time, but bandos are physical healing

[crystal loom]

Physical healing buff doesn't do anything 😢

[vivid pendant]

seems as if a lot of people would like for this game to be available via solo pve experience
which could be fun if it were a different game i guess

[brave oracle]

I think the idea thats been floating around that you choose to buy in to the market and geared lobbies vs staying in self found / merchant lobbies is a good balance. Maybe even lower the barrier for the market to lvl 10

[forest tapir]

anyone find shriek of weakness only works like 30% of the time? i think its a latency isssue i can play every other spell just fine

[steady valley]

does +1 phys healing make troll blood +2 hp per second or does it make it 101 over 100 seconds?

[vivid pendant]

they raised it to 15 to see how it will affect the gold selling bots

[graceful storm]

The level 15 stuff they changed is dog water

[coral valve]

Yeah i subbmited a ticket about the glitch and i refused to trade my fried his duplicate gear because I dont wanna risk getting banned. Hopefully someone gets back to me on the ticket so I know what up with what just happend.

[steady valley]

yea thats not what i was asking though

[main raven]

Level 15 change is good because it almost completely kills trading

[vivid pendant]

im 100% sure they are aware of instances like this occurring, so during the early access phase, you trading that gear back to your friend is highly unlikely to be a big deal
or you can just vendor the 3 pieces lol

[graceful storm]

Trading is not a bad thing, it just needs adjusting like the rest of the game

[brave oracle]

I meant if they had it so that you weren't automatically added to the geared lobbies. That way sweats will filter out of the lower lobbies quicker. But keeping it at 15 for the gold sellers is a good point and probably more benificial

[last spoke]

My personal opinion: get rid of 14- lobbies and 15+ lobbies. Just not fun. The randomness of going in without loot and fighting others without loot was better and just more enjoyable regardless if the fight is won. You can’t even try to go 0 to hero in 15+ without a triple rangers purpled out. As I said it’s not a skill issue there are ways to get around it, just less fun. Seems like there is more geared people in regular maps than High roller nowadays

[main raven]

It should be limited to HR only, with anything you find in HR only usable in HR. It'll at least make sure you can't die to a Unique Spear on Normal Goblin Caves (yes, this happened to me).

[graceful storm]

This yes sir I've been saying it for days the lobbies are trash now

[vivid pendant]

one of the responses in the dev q&a was that they don't want to hold the hands of newer players and baby them too much

[warm lynx]

That’s actually not that bad of an idea

[last spoke]

My opinion: Reduce trading back to level 10, just add a report feature to report accounts that advertise selling gold. Name it “spam” and if enough people report it use AI, or a detection to look for keyword “selling gold, buying gold”

[main raven]

Right now, 1-14 Goblin Caves is the easiest map, and the next easiest is somehow HR Goblin Caves because all the sweatlords stick to Normal 15+ Caves. Almost everyone I've met in HR Caves was super friendly, and there were actually less juiced players than in Normal Caves.

[chilly quiver]

quests once they're added could be used as another way to get those players in HR games

[graceful storm]

If they're going to split the lobbies the way they've done they have to do something about the gear disparity or I will give this game up at some point as much as I would hate that

[last spoke]

This game gonna end up like for honor if they don’t listen to the general public instead of the TTV, and content creators…look at siege as well

[graceful storm]

This is facts

[vivid pendant]

general public... is that leaning more towards the casual players??

[last spoke]

General public is those that play regularly but not competitive as in stats and content. Basically majority of ppl in this cord

[graceful storm]

The large majority of the player base that doesn't play the game all day every single day for 14 hours

[last spoke]

-remove lobby separation

• reduce trading to 10(use a filter to remove the selling/buying gold
• nerf a couple classes..yes rangers I’m talking about you
  Those three things alone would help the game tbh bring and keep players but like I said my opinion

[main raven]

The sweats need their playground, but if the entire game IS their playground, the game dies

[vivid pendant]

you can't even call people that play for stats/content as competitive imo
how much do the devs have to dumb down a hardcore experience in order for the general public to enjoy it though

[wide jacinth]

question bois, how we know when wipe is? :3

[vivid pendant]

we don't, it's whenever they say/do during EA
once seasons actually start, which i imagine is upon full release, they plan on having seasons last ~3 months

[last spoke]

Nothing I have said is dumbing it down, just makes the game more fun when you can enjoy it and not sweat every game because you’re put into a lobby full of straight geared dudes(no problem with luck of draw) now it just seems most of the time, if you go in naked u don’t even stand a chance unless you use a broken class

[vivid pendant]

a lot of people are saying that after only playing the game for less than a week though

[willow quest]

when you buy a race does it go across all characters or just the one?

[last spoke]

Playing for stats and trying to look like your the best is literally what competition is lol

[graceful storm]

They don't at all... They just need to have a place to sweat, and have an option for a slightly more chill experience like the regular dungeons used to be before they forced all 15+ in the same place greatly degrading the experience for a lot of people who don't have a full purple kitted team in

[vivid pendant]

nah, they're playing because that's their job... that's not competition lol
it's because that's how they hope to make their money for now

[last spoke]

I’ve been playing since alpha and it just seems to me, that just nerfing a few classes slightly, removing the lobby separation and trading reduce doesn’t really affect skill level just overall matchmaking. I don’t want a SBMM or level match making I just wanna load in and if I come across super geared ppl so be it lol the randomness is more enjoyable in my opinion

[vivid pendant]

I feel this q&a does a decent job of addressing current issues for the time being, imo worth a scroll/read, 23 minute video but you can scroll and just read the text responses
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_nfwPZlwJ8&t=123s

[last spoke]

All I believe

[graceful storm]

High roller is supposed to be the place for that, but I guess it makes people feel better about themselves running high roller kits in regular dungeons and sprinting around the lobby wrecking anyone with no gear to decent gear on just tying to have fun

[vivid pendant]

lot of demand from a small dev team, which is unfortunate, people really shit on them hard

[vivid pendant]

yea but teams in white/green/blue mixed sets are doing that in normal and people call that juiced
the 1-14 newbie teams are basically trying to do the same, sweat chase down any solo with their white/green gear

[willow quest]

have you bought a race before?

Idk if it counts but I got the founders and it was for all but idk...

[dawn iris]

I have no idea what the devs intend but it might help to have some sort of optional matchmaking that bars gear above certain rarities in lobbies so that people running default greys and playing casual can choose to avoid people who go into GC or such with capes, rings, full blues and purples, etc. I say optional so that, if you want to run naked against kitted squads for memes, you have that option. But similarly, you can opt out of that.

[rapid lance]

I don't think anyone is saying white and greens are juices in normal lobbies

[graceful storm]

Its also made rouge way more common, and the lobbies feel emptier because a lot of people just hide from those guys and avoid contact

[last spoke]

I dont have an issue with juice lobbies just the matching making system

[vivid pendant]

there's also a lot of people just over exaggerating their experience

[main raven]

I mean, I did actually die to a guy using a unique Spear a few days ago in Normal GC

[delicate solar]

Yeah, don't understand that at all. I didn't see any other devs that really tried to listen to the community so much, but the main community response trend to devs is just like "you're dumb, slow and doing everything wrong".

[last spoke]

I haven’t but you get the skeleton skin with the founders I believe

[rapid lance]

A lot of people are exaggerating but for those that do not have the time or gold for stat chasing, I'd say they are having fun in sub 15 lobbies

[steady valley]

and blue torch

[fallow scaffold]

Is there to be a wipe soon?

[vivid pendant]

yea it was pretty lame to add the separate lobbies imo
@main raven i see that, but there's people claiming blue/purple sweat teams EVERY match, and i know that's not true, you catch the drift

[main raven]

It honestly kind of is. At least for Goblin Caves, there's more sweats in the Normal 15+ lobbies than there is in HR. Crypts HR is absolutely awful, however.

[old jewel]

they need a real anti cheat to save the playebase

[vivid pendant]

yea they said that they were not expecting as many players as there are during EA lol

[graceful storm]

That has 100% been my experience, you're not the all knowing DnD master. maybe I have just been unlucky but you're wrong about that bud

[sudden aspen]

does anyone know a fix to game stutter?

[rapid lance]

I mean what's the point of HR if no one is playing it

[warped ingot]

does quarterstaff work with crush on barb

[main raven]

Of course that's your experience, because the only people even queue'ing into the Normal 15+ lobbies ARE the sweats that aren't leaderboard rushing

[graceful storm]

If these people actually used high roller it would probably be less of an issue

[grand creek]

Hey, it's not letting me delete my character can any1 help?

[vivid pendant]

[main raven]

I legit had a game where a Fighter was using a Crystal Sword +Magic Damage setup in NORMAL Goblin Caves. If that isn't sweaty I don't know what is (apart from unique spear guy lmao)

@grand creek Make sure the proper letters are capitalized; its case-sensitive

[grand creek]

I am lol

[wicked linden]

I feel like if they added hidden gear score to all pieces and then in queue it "attempts" to put you in equal or similarly gear scored lobbies the game would be 10x more fun even if queues were a minute or two longer

[vivid pendant]

going to jump on the game in a bit just to spectate awhile, see how many matches have even 1 team of full blue/purple/perfect stat accessories

[graceful storm]

You obviously havent been playing much if you haven't seen it, get out there

[rapid lance]

Too complicated to be honest, the easiest would be a trader/no trader queue

[main raven]

I dunno then rofl

@wicked linden Any kind of SBMM or gearscore matchmaking is awful. Why even take in gear if you're guaranteed to be up against juicers in the first place?

The only gearscore system I'm okay with is one that automatically puts you into a HR match if you're geared enough, waiving the ante fee in the process

[vivid pendant]

it's been less than a week, and i played since they separated lobbies... it's just more naked rogues in HR lol
of course, i don't bother with GC, the devs never really wanted a solo queue map, they don't even play it enough themselves to have input

[regal raven]

Can anyone give me an idea for how much +3 All Green Cloth Pants & Blue Occultist Pants go for?

[main raven]

HR actually has more rats than Normals now, which makes complete sense. You're basically already in HR lobbies once you hit Level 15; might as well have a shot at better loot

[grand creek]

This game shouldn't cater to people, the only type of match making i'd be cool with us trade vrs no trade other then that we don't need sbmm or gearscore lobbies

[wicked linden]

that's what they just did, and to be honest it feels like a very chaep / easy way to fix a larger problem

[graceful storm]

And more rouges in +15 regs, and more kitted teams in regs. High roller has always been full of rouges that's nothing new

[delicate solar]

Well, it shows that they were not ready and as a developer I perfectly understand. They wanted to do everything properly and the amount of work is huge, but hype is up. Looks like there also arrived some people who think it's some AAA studio and just have zero patience ), the amount of pressure they're getting now is insane, not jealous of the devs right now.

[rapid lance]

Not exactly. If no level cap you can have lvl 20s in no trader lobby

[main raven]

Trader should just be HR-only IMO.

[vivid pendant]

well, to be fair, i wouldn't call it HR unless the mobs are harder and there's better chance for better stuff to drop from the mobs themselves
but i think most of the people in 15+ are newer players wearing their better things because they want to get in on the action, so to speak lol

[wicked linden]

high roller shouldn't exist imo

[main raven]

That's the worst part; you're literally forced into an HR match that doesn't even offer any sort of advantage whatsoever. The loot is identical to before, and the players are ten times more geared

[vivid pendant]

how could they ever be ready for the amount of hype with a small team, though
from that standpoint, they really should not have gone ahead with EA, lol

[rapid lance]

I think best middle ground that is easy to implement is to remove the level cap on lobbies, and separate them by trader/no trader. Or just get rid of HR at this point, it doesn't have a purpose in its current iteration

[regal raven]

Can anyone give me an idea for how much +3 All Green Cloth Pants & Blue Occultist Pants go for?
https://i.imgur.com/lboqFoN.gif

[vivid pendant]

also, how many people have been playing this game for a week max and think they should be just as good/geared as the others who play 5x as long as they do...
the "top players" also have dedicated teams and a lot of external help so to speak

[wicked linden]

high roller only exists so people can get better loot and risk a little more, other than that barrier to entry for a newer player is a bit much and it puts people off

[rapid lance]

There really isn't better loot though right? Otherwise more people would play it

[vivid pendant]

there is, though, but most people just want to do HR GC and not go to HR inferno level
because everyone wants to play solo i guess, or most people don't have a team/friends to play game with

[rapid lance]

Ok, so why are people complaining it's empty then? If the loot is better, in theory more people should play it

[vivid pendant]

HR also means harder pve for most players, the start of normal lobbies.... you'll see 3-6 people dying within the first minute still

[graceful storm]

I've played all of the play tests and been playing consistently since it came out until this past week when I started to not have as much fun, AND I do have as good of gear as these people, I just don't want to wear a purple kit in every single game.. see?

[floral dove]

do we know how much damage punching deals? 🤔

[regal raven]

Is the next wipe in 3 days or just high roller leaderboards?

[delicate solar]

Yep, good points. But I think that the devs wanted to use EA for different reasons, for development itself. For feedback to benchmark and tweak up a balanced class system. But people be like "no tweaking, you're breaking it", "give us finished game", "want play". They didn't expect to succeed that much and didn't know they will end up with so little time for all that.
So imo the devs just need more time and less pressure, but no, "THE GAME IS DYING, YOU SEE?!".

[spare vortex]

when will high roller end

[fresh basin]

Why would I wanna queue high roller when it’s just 7 rogues waiting in different rooms til someone has to walk into them?

[median gazelle]

Best Duo teams right meow?

[rapid lance]

Would that change if we get rid of high roller? Or would those rogues just go to the normal dungeons?

[vivid pendant]

then the rogues would just be in normal dungeons all the same

[rapid lance]

Exactly lol, the rogue point seems moot

[median gazelle]

BEST DUO TEAMS RIGHT MEOW?

[main raven]

It's 15 damage, in case no one answered

@median gazelle Dual Warlock with BoC/Phantom is pretty hilarious

[floral dove]

thanks!

[fresh basin]

You can call it moot all you want but it’s basically impossible for most classes to go in because they lack the free survivability rogue has. 9/10 of my solo high roller lobbies are at least 5 rogue players. If you think that’s healthy idk what to tell you

[scarlet vortex]

am i an ahole for bringing legendary gear in norms cuz hr is so boring cuz its all naked rogues

[vivid pendant]

play the game how you want

[rapid lance]

Its a stealth class that's part of the game, what's your suggestion? Remove rogues?

[gritty crest]

lmao where do i send a screenshot of a bugged portal?

[rapid lance]

Play how you want, in its current iteration HR is not worth it

[high jewel]

Healingbeef... HELL yeah. Good u got out

[fresh basin]

Here’s a crazy idea lower their survivability. Remove double jump, make it so they can’t invis while things are looking at them, remove weak point, lower damage when immediately coming out of stealth instead of raising it there’s plenty of things you could do. The class makes up 50% of your solo HR play rate it’s definitely a problem

[subtle heart]

skill issue

[vivid pendant]

eh most rogue players think that stealth build is the ONLY way to play... they're just too scared or not good enough to try anything different

[rapid lance]

See I think their toolset is fine, maybe more tools to take them out of stealth would be nice, right now only light orb can take them out of invis. Or the shriek to damage em

[raw ore]

if you play rogue having on call 110 percent phisical power bonus and 40 percent armor pen and they dont even have to be hidden they can pop hide while moving and get that buff for 5 seconds

[vivid pendant]

eh people just don't bother checking for em, they learn eventually
i don't bother, just stay ready, and if they get me, they get me, onto the next match

[rapid lance]

That's my thing, you can normally hear them clapping about even in stealth

[subtle heart]

rouges also get the soft spot on their head pushed like a new born baby, so meh, swings and roundabouts

[vivid pendant]

yes, your pfp shows what happens to rogues when they fuck around

[subtle heart]

@vivid pendant bro im handsome as fuck, whatchu implying here.

@vivid pendant its more the face i make when my finger pokes through the paper

[raw ore]

they also have the highest agility and double jump so hitting them is a issue if its so easy to kill them and people are just clueless why are they always top of hr leaderboards

[vivid pendant]

[vivid pendant]

i know you smell your finger after that happens

[subtle heart]

@raw ore yeah double jump is stupid imo, even as a casual rouge enjoyer. Id be for removing that.

i say bring back the balance of the early playtests. theyve added so much garbage to this game its polluting it.

keep it simple, return to monke i say.

and taste it @vivid pendant

[vivid pendant]

yeaaaa you'd like it balls deep for sure

[shadow widget]

Tbh the prime reason for that is people are stupid and won't even try to counter rogues to save their lives.

There are so many things you can do to harden a rogues' life that only a minority of even rogues themselves know and use

[fresh basin]

Play rate should speak for its self but let’s ignore the fact that there’s 7 classes and one of them has almost half of your play rate

[raw ore]

they have the most perks and skills more than any other class all i ask is some of their bonuses to be toned down and to make it so ambush only procs after a certain period afrer being stealthed

[crystal onyx]

which one is that?

[subtle heart]

@vivid pendant i mean if your mums putting out again then sure, let her know im a qualified deep sea diver

[raw ore]

what are these counters

[vivid pendant]

damn this server censored as hell
wait what, i've been deep in both your mums... and your dad on the side are we related some how....
@shadow widget people just too lazy to try and learn, it's just fast paced whatever

[jovial ledge]

the one that can one shot you, and I'm not talking about the one with the slowest attack speed, it's the fastest 😄

[rapid lance]

That seems fair, I think tailoring certain perks to a play style would help too. Like weakpoint can't be used within a certain time after stealth. The invis pot ambush is pretty strong too

[knotty wadi]

Stealth needs to be removed from the game bottom line, rogue's should get the phantomize warlock ability while warlock gets another rework ability

[vivid pendant]

why's that look like such a hxh zoldyck family wanna be pic lol

[rapid lance]

Womp womp, worst take so far

[knotty wadi]

Nah stealth is not only imbalanceable from a game POV but its not fun or skillful

[main raven]

Stealth is fine, but total invisibility is overpowered

[knotty wadi]

removing stealth would force them to play smart, and phantomize would be a great outplay tool for them and force them to choose engage or run away, phantomize is useless on warlock as it is

[trim hazel]

youre vanilla af if you play rogue thoughts?

[rapid lance]

This is a better suggestion. Making it less perceptible instead of completely invis. I could rock with that

[raw ore]

i think they could make it instead of being invisible be more like halos cloak but way less obvious where if you look closely and are paying attention you can spot it like a chameleon

[main raven]

Phantomize is useful, but you should be able to Phantom through doors and cancel it at anytime

[knotty wadi]

Rogue's should start with 1 invis pot and not have stealth at all, phantomize redistrubited to their class and have an ability that makes warlock not F tier

[shadow widget]

• Go to the circle center, be the one waiting for a rogue, not the other way around.

• If you hear careful footsteps behind a door a rogue is probably behind it. Fake-open the door and wait for around 35-40 seconds for hide to be over as 99% rogues use hide when they hear a door opening.

• If you feel there is a rogue nearby, LISTEN CLOSELY. We can't attack in complete silence.

• If you feel like you're about to get ambushed - jump and turn around. If we fuck up the first headshot the whole ambush is for nothing.

• Move around and don't play "in your face". Dagger headshots from a geared rogue can be deadly. Most people just stand still pretty much, even geared ones, and die to multiple headshots.

• As a ranger you can use chase, spear proficiency, multishot. A ranger with this setup is completely rogue immune unless he's literally braindead

• As a fighter you can learn to parry daggers with a twohander, you can also make distance with sprint and easily win a melee fight just because of supreme reach. (Yes you can make distance from a rogue, "the fastest class" is a fucking meme). Combined with some movement apart from pressing W button you're almost immortal with decent gear

• As a wiz use light orb whenever you can and don't whine against limited uses or w/e. It's better than dying.

And much more

[wicked parrot]

THEY DONT NEED COMPLETE INVIS, THE GAME IS DARK ENOUGH TO BE SNEAKY, THEY SHOULD REPLACE STEALTH WITH SILENT FOOTSTEPS FOR A PERIOD OF TIME

[crystal onyx]

im surprised the range on the dot isn't further with the current state it's in

[raw ore]

they are reworking lock and are trying to add summoning and potential to charm demons so its happening

[rapid lance]

You probably hate wizard invis too lol

[knotty wadi]

These counters are horrible,a blue gear rogue can 2 shot every class except fighter cleric and barb, looking in every room and playing the game specifically for rogues isnt fun or healthy, the class is way too easy and broken in solos bottomline, no other class can do what they do in greys aswell purely because of stealh. And no wizard invis is fine because it lasts extremely short, you can hear the people sprinting from it because its only used for engage.

[vale cosmos]

barb is to fast atm imo. full naked fighter with sprint and a default barb is out pacing me. thats kinda ridiculous imo.

[shadow widget]

Most people I kill lack patience. You see them hear you, they know you're here and if you don't attack asap and just stand still they'll think they just hallucinated or something and just go into the ambush. Be patient.

People also don't move and love to stand in one place, especially while looting. Even if you're listening for footsteps - just crouch/stand up repeatedly.

Very often I kill some dude just coming up to him from the back full speed and oneshotting this completely still dummy in the back of his head - he has no right to complain. You can come up to a dude and headshot him as any class

[knotty wadi]

Waiting 45 seconds for a stealthed rogue is healthy for the game? The class is broken lmao you can't defend being able to 2 shot half the classes in the game, there's almost no counterplay and there is no skill involved in the class

[rapid lance]

Idk man, I think stealth is fine. You should be worried going into any room and you should be listening to footsteps. If something doesn't seem right take another route

[vale cosmos]

bro wants the rouge to not be a rouge

[rapid lance]

If your argument is you don't like being careful, I think you want to play call of duty and just autism your way through a dungeon

I hear rogue feet clapping all the time when I play, I get ganked when I don't listen to my gut or I overextend in a fight

[errant steeple]

I named all 8 of my characters after an HxH character. My rogue is Killua lol

[crystal onyx]

I like this take. Maybe even change "hide" to give you stealth for only like 3-4 seconds, but you have silent footsteps for 8-10 or something lol

[main raven]

-> You will almost never beat the Rogue to the middle of the map. Thinking you can is copium.

-> Camping a doorway for 40 seconds to counter a Rogue is bad game design.

-> Parrying a dagger is suicide and doesn't even let you riposte with the Longsword.

-> Having to use Light Orb as a Wizard is annoying since you already have limited spells.

[sly owl]

What the actual fuck is up with the servers? I have watched over a dozen lobbies get wiped in the first 90 seconds because the game is so unstable for the last like 6 hours or more

[rapid lance]

It was stuttering a lot earlier today. I usually take a break when this starts happening

[shadow widget]

You say they're horrible, and I as a rogue player say they work. And you won't use them and keep dying. Like everyone else.

Even if we'd have no stealth and no weakpoint it'd still work because it's a playstyle approach, nothing prevents me from using invis potions for the same effect and any squishy class will still die to maybe two hits instead of one.

And I can do this as any class

I'd trade the hide we have now to something more mobile and with shorter duration, I'd give away my burst for it.

Sadly there is a problem when situations with zero counterplay possibility can occur. It's when a rogue sits behind a door completely still and waits for a target, and the target uses none of the "counters" listed above and just opens a door and goes.

The biggest rogue problem is that class is forced to play this way as you lose direct fights to every class always no exception (with equal skill and gear)

@main raven rogue is the worst PvE class. You can beat rogue to the middle of the map no problem. Camping for 40s is bad design for sure, but if you want to die to rogues less - I just told you how to approach this goal. Parrying a dagger is suicide if you can't parry for shit. If you succeed it's an autooneshot on a rogue. Using light orb is annoying, but being dead in 1 hit is more annoying. You get to choose.

[rapid lance]

I just think certain rogue perks should be tailored away from stealth. Weakpoint while in stealth is pretty OP while also having ambush. If weakpoint couldn't be used during stealth or after 10 seconds of stealth it changes the gameplay

[wanton marten]

the rogues make the game worse

[main raven]

Rogue? The worst PvE class? You can't be serious.

Also, you actually just can't trigger a Longsword riposte on a dagger block. I'm not saying you can't because it's hard; I'm saying you can't because you just straight-up can't.

Light Orb on Wizard is only viable in a ten-spell setup, and even then it's only viable with a Bard in the party. If you don't have a Bard and/or are playing solo, you CANNOT spam Light Orbs. You only get six of them before you have to recharge them, and without Meditate or a Bard, spamming them is impossible.

It also just isn't good enough on its own to warrant bringing. It can counter Rogues; sure, but it's not as important as your other spells that counter every other class in the game. It's only useful on a ten-spell setup, and even then you run into the problem of having to constantly recharge your Orbs throughout the match.

[rapid lance]

An ambush class is awesome though when you got a team decked out with bard or cleric

[spring canyon]

yes you can, just gotta hit it perfect, ive seen ppl parry arrows even
also as a rogue main, rogue is the worst PvE class
the only thing that is good pve is troll

[last atlas]

is there going to be a wipe?

[main raven]

Parrying arrows is possible, but I think daggers can't be riposte'd off of due to their low impact power or something. Rapiers also have the same quirk; while I have seen footage of people riposte'ing off of a Rapier swing, I've never seen it in-game myself.

[spring canyon]

ive died to both so it is possible

[brave oracle]

The time to kill for rogues is just crazy. I think they should make them more slippery but deal less damage. Force them to catch you off more than once.

Also maybe lanterns should reveal rogues, it would at least give an option for other classes to find them without changing to much

[shadow widget]

Since when you can't riposte dagger attacks? I might've missed something, because they happen for sure.
You don't need to spam the orb, you need to use it when you need it.
And I agree that bringing the orb to specifically counter one class is bullshit and uncomfy but it is what it is

[fluid breach]

skill issue

[main raven]

Which dagger, out of curiosity? It might just be specific weapons then. I've never seen anyone be able to riposte a Rondel stab in-game

[rocky ore]

you can riposte dagger hits. just difficult

[rapid lance]

That's a cool suggestion, would force people to dual wield with a lantern making them slower

[formal wing]

bro whats the deal with the undodgeable centipede poison

goes through walls and insta teleports on you

[spring canyon]

yeah sometimes it do be a lil glitchy

[brave oracle]

walk straight past it when it charges it, works the most consistently

[main raven]

If you're a Rogue or a Wizard, my advice is to not even bother fighting them.

If you're a Rogue and you get by poison like twice, you're dead.

[shadow widget]

If you hug a centipede at all times it doesn't use poison tho
And no centipede poison is not that bad, a goblin archer shot is far deadlier

[rapid lance]

Yeah I kill centipede plenty with wiz

[spring canyon]

ive done it with casti kris and stil, rondel is diff because its all stabs and none of them are overhead so its much much harder to parry

[formal wing]

ill try this out but sometimes im standing 90 degrees to in like 5 ft away and it still hits me

[brave oracle]

That is not accurate

[brave oracle]

Stay really close, like right on it. You want to walk into its tail basically

[main raven]

I've had it use poison at point-blank. It might be possible to force it to only melee attack you by staying right in front of it, though, like how you'd prevent the Cave Troll from doing the charge attack.

@spring canyon I'm not sure how it works exactly. I had a Warlock who couldn't riposte off of my blocked Rapier overhead attack, and I've seen footage of other LS users also getting rekt because they weren't able to riposte a Rapier attack

[spring canyon]

might have just had shit for ping and couldnt riposte for shit

[main raven]

He definitely clicked fast enough to get the riposte off; I've used the LS enough to know that.

Works for me, though; the Longsword has pretty much zero counters otherwise

[spring canyon]

the counter for longsword is just get in their face, make them hit sour spot as you attack em
i with a green casti killed a warlock with a purple LS a little bit ago who was way more geared than me

[main raven]

My best strat is basically just jumping and hitting them in the head

[arctic monolith]

it does, but if you are hugging it the poison wont hit you. ive done this while screen sharing for a friend to show how you wont get hit by poison if you are on it but being even a little too far away will still get you hit, almost regardless of angle. i was triggering poison attacks eventually while pretty much afk-running into the side/front of its body

[brave oracle]

Heres hoping that monk also gets a double jump. Can't have rogues as the only ones that can access parts of the maps

[main raven]

Also, if you aren't a Cleric or Wizard, is there a counter to a Warlock BoC/Phantom rushing you? I say this from the perspective of the Warlock doing the phantom rushing lol

I mean, just holstering and running away probably works, but that's only if you've got an escape route

[chilly stone]

honestly rogues being invis for 45 seconds seems like the less of their worries atm

[gusty pollen]

Seeing fullly geared rare gear people in 1-14 LOL wow

[south badge]

Yeah wow that’s so crazy

[chilly stone]

i really don't get this complaint on geared people. if you're going in naked you have nothing to lose whilst they have everything to lose?

[gusty pollen]

Bunch of sweatybois in low level queue lol

just no fun getting one hit while learning a new class.

[chilly stone]

so may they be? they're in those queues because they are just like you, trying to level up.

[arctic monolith]

think it depends on your class and if the warlock has weapon out or not. if he screws up and prepops BoC for whatever reason before phantom, just kite it out at all costs. if he has weapon out and phantoms, just put weapon away and kite out as ranger or rogue or bard. if he didnt prepop BoC and/or phantoms without weapon out, then fighter will always have time to do whatever he has to do during phantom and then react to hold block for BoC. as barb, i guess you just pull out your horseman's axe and start jumping and swinging for his head as he comes out bc melee lock wont win that trade if his BoC doesn't headshot.

[unborn vigil]

gear complaints probably has more to do with how cheap it is to get a full kit from trade atm. the economy is kinda scuffed with all the gear circulating, you can get your bis weapon with average rolls for 50g most of the time.

If there was a risk involved in bringing a full blue kit, it wouldnt be a problem, but anyone can just keep going blue with a few hundred gold

[gusty pollen]

They're smerfing lol thats is it. They're there because none of the sweatys are afraid to go agsinst each other.

[chilly stone]

smurfing isnt a thing in DaD lol. they're just trying to level a new class and if you're dying to them its a you problem not their fault. just avoid pvp if you want to level up

[main raven]

I feel like there's counters for solo play, but when we we were rocking double or triple Warlock we'd often just wind up killing their squishy classes since they were trying to run away and got stuck on their slower teammates lol

[unborn vigil]

it's totally a thing, zero to hero, LFG crypts/hellruns 14 or lower.

If you are knowingly rerolling your main class, just to enter the 1-14 bracket, that's smurfing 😛

[chilly stone]

yea but if smurfing was a thing they'd have skillbased matchmaking which doesnt work for these types of games.
people wanting to do zero to hero as a challenge really isnt something new, and they don't have a level or gear advantage apart from what they find in the dungeons that you could find

smurfing is when you make a new character/account to play against lower-ranked players not lower leveled since you are at the same level

[main raven]

That's not "smurfing"; that's just getting back to the good part of the game lol

[unborn vigil]

They dont necesarily have a gear advantage, i agree its a minority, but its very easy to bring 2 level 1 rangers and a 20 cleric into normal crypts. cleric brings a bunch of blue longbows and arminigs swords, jewelry.
Group extracts, now you got level 2 blue geared rangers ready to farm newbie que.

[arctic monolith]

ive played triple warlock comps a few times or double warlock + bard eco comps in the past where we just run cheap sets and try to one shot a backliner or bait backline and try to oneshot a geared fighter. in the past, we would literally get kited out even with phantomize if we didnt have a bard bc every decent team had a bard and bard was ridiculous before the nerfs. the other thing teams can do is just play near doors and have squishy classes just close them when you get close

[main raven]

This is why I hope Phantom will be buffed to let you go through all doors.

Also, we were running this strat in sub-15 lobbies. The moment I hit level 15 we all died instantly lol. That man has since been deleted and re-made at level 1

[chilly stone]

my other msg got deleted but as i said it most of the time is to help friends get to level 15+ faster not so they can farm noobs in 1-14 queues lol

[arctic monolith]

yeah it's a bit of a cheesy strat but it works really well with literally just a grey falchion. outside of the obvious counter of having any magic damage, the real weakness of this comp is just the fact that it doesn't really scale well. you're kinda incentivized to run it as a 'cheap' warlock build but the comp doesn't really work if you can't oneshot squishies or even catch them once you're talking about people who are going to have gear. and trying to build str/will/agi/whatever stats to scale up is pretty meh on warlock and at that point, you could just run plenty of other comps for diving that don't have the weakness of just instadying if there's a naked wizard in the team lol

[hard sierra]

whats the best way to take care of a quarterstaff barb as a fighter?

[clever verge]

Are nightmare axe skeletons not black tinted like the other nightmare mobs??

[main raven]

Yeah, it's a strong burner build. It's also really good on Ruins since most players are Rogues/Rangers.

Also, we had a game where we both Phantom'd through a bear trap, which their Cleric later died to lol

[misty yacht]

what do you guys think is the best 3 man comp for a new trio who wants to run "budget" crypts?

[lilac juniper]

barb, cleric and bard. bard being the main benefition

[misty yacht]

even after the recent nerfs?

[lilac juniper]

100%, bard gives buffs as if you are running geared, pluss the rest healing is alr

[arctic monolith]

fighter/ranger/cleric. none of the classes have difficult mechanics or are tricky to play around and the comp doesnt really have any glaring weaknesses. its also extremely forgiving if youre newerplayers

[lilac juniper]

true, but if bard and cleric can be played decent then yeah. just take top barb on leaderboard for example, they run cleric,bard and barb

[ebon lion]

Triple warlock

Barb, Cleric, Wiz

Fighter, Ranger, Cleric

Any trio can do well, just focus on fun tbh

[timid temple]

I just had a warlock hellfire me through the wall. Then when I died I was scrolling through the players and there were 0 other warlocks than me..

[ebon lion]

Either he died, or escaped

Or worst scenario, you're blind and missed him

[arctic monolith]

yeah but the guy asked for “3 man comp for NEW trio looking to run BUDGET crypts”. how cheap ‘budget’ actually means is variable but i assume it means more or less vendor gear and the occasional green item. this means fighter can get a ranged weapon and ranger can get a spear + decent longbow. barb/cleric/bard can work without gear but its not exactly easy for new players to play and youre gonna have a really hard time against range. at near-starter level kits, its hard to have more sustain and an easier to learn comp than having a ranger and a guy who has shield and second wind, plus heals ofc. the only other new player friendly budget comp that comes to mind is ditching the fighter for another ranger lol

[normal minnow]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/491974/low-roller-lobbies

[lilac juniper]

dunno why you capped "budget", this comp i said doesnt need any buyables only "maybe" axe for barb

[ebon lion]

Ew no

[arctic monolith]

i capped the qualifiers that i personally emphasized. not necessarily ones i felt your comp didnt address. i even said “bard/cleric/bard can work without gear” in my prev response. i also mentioned how its not really as newbie friendly (imo) and has trouble against range. idk, maybe its just me, but i feel like having new players on that comp is just asking to burn through several heals and a resting period for any room with a couple skele archers. plus, buffing up one character to do a vast majority of your damage while not getting kited out and prioritizing the correct targets is also not great for learning players. just my 2 cents ofc

[lilac juniper]

sorry, but learning anything in this game is a learning curve, bard took me 1hour to learn with notes

[distant nexus]

Nerf rogue for gods sake

[arctic monolith]

sure, but you could literally say that about any comp. im not disagreeing with your suggestion or saying it absolutely cannot possibly be used by new players. the guy asked for a new player friendly comp that is effective on a budget so i gave him a balanced and forgiving comp with a ton of sustain.

[ebon lion]

You're taking notes of classes? How the fuck are you guys "learning" classes

They're all really simple no offense

[vivid pendant]

[noble dust]

Regarding Fighter, is it an oversight they cant use the rubysilver cap? I like running slayer on my fighter but it appears that after spending a few runs mining that i can't make anything non-plate for a helm that a fighter can also use.

[delicate solar]

People are different. For some people hitting WASD is "I leart it, let's go kick ass!", for some playing it for 5000 times but not knowing one exact value by second or some formula is "Shit, I didn't learn it yet" )).

[ebon lion]

I suppose fun is subjective but God damn, the latter sounds horrible

[finite hull]

is there suppose to be teaming in goblin every other game im getting run down by 2 mans?

[noble dust]

Technically no, but theres no real rules to the game other than "Don't use third party programs."

[arctic monolith]

pretty sure he meant “learning the bard’s notes” as in his literal song notes. which is also silly bc thats one of the simplest things you can do in this game even as a very new player, esp if youre just standing near your group prebuffing. the ‘hard’ stuff that people have to work towards learning is how to actually be effective with your class in the comp you are in, which is why i mentioned that asking a new player to grab default gear barb and actually chase down players without getting kited and kill priority targets quickly is something that probably isnt gonna go so well until that guy learns the game a bit

[delicate solar]

Well, those are extreme examples )). But I guarantee you the person who actually is like this doesn't consider it horrible and actually enjoys making tables and figuring out game mechanics )).

[gentle echo]

some times i truly dont understand how this game works,, just had a fight against a barbarian in goblin caves (im ranger)
we exchange blows through arrows and thrown hatchets, as he pushes in we had to both break up to deal with aggro'd goblins, i eat a ration as he is using bandages.
i get a few arrows into his body as he is still dealing with 1 goblin, he yells and rushes, we trade melee blows and i die,, thats fine.
but when i spectate him, as soon as i can, he is literally full health,, a minimum of 3 arrows and a melee hit from white arming sword. not a single point of damage??

[delicate solar]

Barb has a perk healing him after kill.

Just play as the class you don't understand how to counter, every fucking problem of that class will become clear )). UPD: except Ranger, Ranger OP )).

[gentle echo]

his only perk was crush (i should have mentioned that)
skills were rage and achilles strike

[noble dust]

Morale Boost heals 12% of the barbs max hp instantly. There couldve been lag, you only hit limb shots which do practically no damage, or you just missed him. If you're sure he wasnt running those perks and he was using a version of god mode, filling stats, or stat locking, report him

[broken reef]

LET US REPORT GOLD SELLERS AND DO OUR PART

[gentle echo]

i hit 1 in chest guaranteed, others could have been limbs, not sure where my hit connected with melee as i died in the trade

[delicate solar]

Hmm, that does sound interesting. Sure he used bandage and not a high tier Surgical Kit?

[gentle echo]

i mean,, i suppose its possible, tho i would be surprised, only 1 perk, grey/white looted gear like myself

[noble dust]

I've met a few cheaters that lock stats or fire at invisible rogues as i spectate them, and some of the "Ttv" streamers in the high roller leaderboard have manipulated their settings in a way to see in pitch black so you can't really hide from them.

[delicate solar]

Could've just dropped, got those myself right at the game start. But could be cheat too ). Hard to know.

[gentle echo]

im just generally confused,, i hate jumping to accusations of hacks, especially as he fought as if he was taking damage,,,
and nice, never found one through loot 😅

[noble dust]

Barbarians resourcefulness is terribly low, even with a higher tier surgical kit, could it really be fast enough to be mistaken for a bandage, or did Zep leave him alone for the near 15+ seconds it takes just to use a green surgical kit? I would doubt he got a purple kit immediately, but theres an off chance too.

[gentle echo]

we were both breaking off the fight midway to deal with goblins,, i suppose if he just ran around it while healing he would have enough time, potentially

[rain forge]

hello , i think the pharmacy meta should return otherwise is the guy that does nothing but wait for the fog that wins every time ... byebye

[delicate solar]

Purple doubtful my thought was blue. But you're right about Resoursefullness.

[noble dust]

Unrelated, does anyone know if its an oversight that fighters can only use the plate craftables from cobalt/rubysilver? Definitely saddening that I can't run any helmet except leather caps i find laying around or in trade/merchants, as the craftable helms are all locked behind classes so fighter cant even use the non-plate ones there. (I'm using Slayer so I can't run a plate fighter)

[noble dust]

Want to run a few games? Im sitting around bored trying to learn other classes range/mobility personally since all i do is usually play barb, but im trying to learn fighter

[blissful fern]

Barb are just very good in gc since they can tank a lot by default, and they basically win any 1vs1 unless they are in very disadventageous position. Most of the time the wiser play is to run and come back when the barb is dealing with other stuff

[noble dust]

Depending on the weapon, a barbarian can be kited even in melee. The Battleaxe and Felling axe have very low range, easy to slip in between missed swings if he doesnt understand the range of his weapon is very short, or he just missed a swing. Against a rogue with a rapier, honestly you can't even try to engage that fight if the rogue understands that a rapier out-ranges a battleaxe (I disagree with that type of balancing.) He can just sit right outside your attack range while still poking at you.

[blissful fern]

When running barb I bring horseman if this is the case, otherwise I tend to tank the first hit and trade

[noble dust]

Slayer fighter is funny with adrenaline to force a barbarian into a 1h powerhouse contest where the fighter swings nearly 3-4x faster. I unfortunately fell to that, and tried it out myself, its honestly ridiculous when the other player doesn't expect it coming

[drifting hinge]

Will we see a content patch today

[unborn vigil]

the -40 hp is pretty easily felt as a fighter versus a barb pre-axe nerf

[knotty kestrel]

what you recomending now on barb other then war maul? horsman is kinda bad now, i saw some people running with viking sword or hatchet. Is it worth?

[steel geyser]

Full purple squads not playing highroller shouldnt be aloud, teams like that just kill everyone making it impossible to progress in 15+ lobbies

[raw ore]

lets gooooo

[amber turtle]

12 people hr is a big change

[magic echo]

for those HR prices shit better be guaranteed blue grade and above loot guaranteed

[unborn vigil]

yoo 6 player GC, might actually loot something before escaping

[untold wasp]

150gold for HR what are these devs smoking i would like to have some of it

[pastel light]

yeah that's what i was thinking, slight loot table increase

[magic echo]

na na na no slight SIGNIFICANT loot table changes, otherwise they're just smoking grade S crack

[brisk mason]

Hell yeah im excited already. also i think these hr changes will be really good

[frozen crane]

Loot in HR is already very good no need to increase it

[subtle heart]

Even 50g per run priced me out of HR 😐

[dire sluice]

why not get rid of tier based weapons and make skill determind fights

[unborn vigil]

why have loot in a loot extraction game?

[brisk mason]

go play a competitive shooter. this isnt that, there is different levels of gear and its an exctration game, not everything is a fair 1v1

[dire sluice]

its bs i cant even get in a match when every jerk has purples i cant even get a start

[steel geyser]

they need to make a cap on the loot tier in normal lobbies

[untold zenith]

hide lol

[brisk mason]

not every person has purples. also there is the under level 15 lobbies

[subtle heart]

Just gotta get lucky once - have you tried third partying the fights?

[dire sluice]

make tiered match making instead of these guys pub stomping newbies and under 15 doesnt help its all about what gear u have

[zealous jay]

dont fight them then pick your fights or out skill them in an ambush and take their kit as your prize its not rocket science a naked wiz can fuck over a juiced team with a little bit of skill and luck

[subtle heart]

I picked up some cool blue shit recently by leading one barbarian into another, then stabbing the winner 😁

[untold zenith]

lmfao

[toxic geode]

Anyone need RAnger lvl 20 and really geared

[pastel light]

yeah i guess, i did like 100-200 games during the week highroller was free and there was definitely some games where i actually felt the high roller and was getting blues all over from crates/barrels/urns and finding an epic or two in lions chests or elsewhere, but then again your right it's very rare that happens, probably 20/100 chance, so yeah increasing that to like 60 or 70 would be nice haha

[final vault]

Imo price of crypts hr should be even higher

[steel geyser]

bro i cant choose to be in a under 15 lobby, fair when teams can go on never ending streaks because they are wearing hr gear in pub

[brisk mason]

it really isnt all about gear. yes a green and gray most of the time wont win against good blues and purps, but even in some matchups it does happen. you can still win fights based on skill, and half the fun of it is the fact you just killed someone with better gear than you. you realize if it was a no gear all "skill" game then it would be the same issue but worse? new players getting stomped by expirienced players

[subtle heart]

Surely you can - delete and remake your character ..

[magic echo]

indeed i'd go into some games only coming out with 1 blue and a bunch of white/green stuff

[brisk mason]

they do not go on never ending streaks, trust me I know. my team and i brings in decent gear a lot since we dont have anything worse, and it is very possible to die to many things, many 3rd parties, glitches, more you name it. we lost a nice set earlier cause our fighter got kicked from the game and a team ran out of zone to kill us.

[agile kraken]

indeed. skill worth more than equipment. look at the wizzards.

[steel geyser]

surely i should delete my 15+ character after hours of gameplay so i restart and do it again

[untold zenith]

lost 1k on a figher in hr this night, gona hide back in my gc

[weak siren]

Your next 15 will be a lot faster, trust me

[brisk mason]

part of that is wizard is an extremely strong class, but point still stands. class's like wiz and ranger can very much win outgeared matchups with good gameplay, and a lot of classes can, longsword fighter and other things, hell i just won one against a ranger as a cleric, however i wasnt quite that outgeared

[dire sluice]

i disagree the scaling on gear is stupid and there are so many people still reaping the rewards of early exploits its bs every single fight ive lost was to over guyed a holes

[final vault]

I am sorry that you arent good enough to play against people of the same level as you. Its not the games fault. If you want easier opponents you can reset, otherwise prepare to play against actual people

[untold zenith]

man, there was a wipe...

[subtle heart]

Alright, well make a new character then - you're complaining about skillcaps right, or did I misread somewhere?

[main raven]

I'm hyped for the HR price change. I'm assuming the loot is gonna be better if the fee is higher

[brisk mason]

go play a competitive shooter, this is not the same game. its an extraction game with loot, you cant get mad cause ppl extracted more and got loot. how do you think the teams with purps have that loot, its not like every team u were against "glitch abused" to get loot

[steel geyser]

LOL bc its a fair fight and a skill diff when i shoot a ranger 10 times and he doesnt die and i get 2 shot, keep in mind these people are going into pubs with some of best gear in the game, isnt that what hr is for

[young timber]

Is it just me or will the changes again just increase the gap between tryhards and casuals? Or the poor from the rich?

[main raven]

To be fair, the trading hall actively punishes you for not farming money to buy BiS gearsets

[delicate solar]

.

[untold zenith]

its just gona be less risky with less players. i guess its equivalent to guaranteed portals in ruins

[dire sluice]

the loot scaling is too high theres literally almost no chance to win a fight when ur under geared and i play the heck out of extraction shooters and the scaling on most is better

[brisk mason]

what are u shooting at a ranger 10 times with and what class are u. u must be missing, cause ranger is extremely squishy. unless ur shooting him in the legs with a survival bow ur just blatently lying.

[subtle heart]

✋ Too much general chat for one day, jesus christ 🖐️

[weak siren]

Well, it could, or it could not. That's why they are testing it, actually smart instead of just assuming they are right without evidence

[final vault]

Sure, but you can also do the same thing, you can also get better gear and run laps around normals. Those people got that gear some way, whg cant you

[dire sluice]

a green or white gear will hit a blue three times as much to kill him thats too much

[steel geyser]

not lying thats the problem lmao

[young timber]

I just fear it will make the game even worse then the last Patch with lvl 1-14 and over 15 lobbys

[brazen gate]

skill issue

[main raven]

You can beat players that have better gear; the problem is that only a few classes can reasonably do so

[brisk mason]

not sure about that, but i really like the changes. felt like a ton of the time in hr you got 3rd partied a ton and just didnt rlly have time for anything, especially with the new trash zone. however less ppl higher fee will lead to more geared fights imo, less naked rogues, less 3rd parties over and over. but we will see

[weak siren]

I'm guessing it's just for a few days, just like the 0g HR was.

[vague solstice]

Very True if its not +3 all

[steel geyser]

my whole point is i cant run regular to build up gear bc i get pub stomped by kids who should be in highroller

[brisk mason]

how did the game get made worse in any way with the under level 15 lobbies? it was a very good change. anyone saying ppl are siphoning loot into lower lobbies to stomp are wrong, the person either had trade hall before, had stuff before, or just got good loot. and it really didnt bring that many more geared ppl to norms

[zinc pelican]

imo the main issue with HR is that you either have people going in with a 50 gold weapon and nothing else, or you have fully geared unkillable players. There's very little incentive to go in with middle of the road gear as you'll just be a loot pinata. The solution might have to be to only lose some of your gear on death rather than all of it, that way people can actually build up their gear and compete without being the best of the best. Might be a hot take for people who love the full loot pvp.

[weak umbra]

skill issue

[final vault]

I like how ironmace makes the game easier for beginners, but those same beginners also manage to find something to complain about.

[main raven]

Yeah, if you're broke at level 15 you're just screwed

@final vault The game is easier... until it isn't. Everyone hits level 15 eventually

[lean furnace]

150g for HR
They're will be more people full geared in normal, nobody will pay that much...

[final vault]

And prior to the update the game was hard since the start, so how is making it earier at the beginning something to cry about

[brisk mason]

im much more tempted to play hr now, compared to befor where me and my team just couldnt get being it, partly cause of our terrible luck anytime we tried. but the less players is gonna be so nice for more fun fights, less rat rogues, more time to loot and go to zone and more. the amount of ppl will fit the amount of portals better in crypts

[zealous jay]

they are prob going to nerf loot in normals and make HR more worth it lets see what they say in the qna tbh

[main raven]

People will still be in HR if the loot is good IMO

@final vault It's worth crying about because the Level 15+ lobbies are pretty much Highroller lobbies with this change. Even if you're not very good, you'll hit level 15 eventually, and once you hit 15 you're gonna get dumpstered by sweats farming Normals

[steel geyser]

when i cant beat a rubysilver team with greens and whites, surely a skill issue, the whole point of pubs is to be able to build up loot and get to the same lvl as those rubysilver teams and hop in high roller

[final vault]

I'd pay for HR even if it was 250g, the point is that its only for those who have the money and gear, its not meant to be accessible for everyone

[lean furnace]

They' re is nobody on HR already, i see more people naked in HR than in normal
It's weird

[main raven]

It's because HR is actually less sweaty than normals. The only sweats on HR right now are the ones farming for the leaderboard for some reason

[steel geyser]

thats the problem, the people that should be in hr are stomping pubs making it impossible for others to get to that point

[main raven]

Like, Goblin HR is actually friendlier than Normal 15+ Gobbo lobbies. That doesn't make a lot of logical sense, but there's a ton of geared nerds just farming Normal Gobbo lobbies at 15+

[misty yacht]

Has anyone encountered an error where sometimes the game works just fine, but occasionally i crash when entering the lobby. Restarting the game and reconnecting does not help, still crashing.

[lean furnace]

I agree, but people full Gear in normal dont go in HR already
Dont you think that increase the price of it will just comfort them ?

[final vault]

The reason for that is because HR as it is right now is only worth it for leaderboards. The actual loot is not much better than norms

[warm lynx]

know this sounds crazy but what better time than an EA to try this ?

Suggestion to remove trading here
READ TILL THE END.
It requires well fleshed out merchant system.

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/491403/trading-system-complete-change

[weak umbra]

no

[brisk mason]

no

[main raven]

Just make trading HR only, and limit all items acquired from HR and trading to HR matches only

[zinc pelican]

no

[main raven]

I don't have any issues with players using the trade system to farm up entire BiS god kits; the problem I have is when said god kits are used to farm Normal lobbies

[steel geyser]

i think they need to make a gear cap on pubs forcing rubysilver/purple+ teams to play hr or gear down if they want to play pubs

[weak umbra]

no

[final vault]

Brother this is one of the worst ideas i've heard. What if you want to run mid gear is normals but now you cant but a green armet. This would also make it to where greens and blue wouldnt even sell, because who would want to play HR is low tier gear

[warm lynx]

Yes I liked this idea too I heard it before did you make a suggestion for it ?

[main raven]

The thing is, even the right rolls on Green/Blue gear makes you an absolute nightmare.

@final vault I'm not against some sort of alternate trade system for low-end gear that can be used in Normals, but forbids you from trading more than maybe 200-250 Gold at once

Even that could lead to the same "people farming cheap BiS items" though

[fading drum]

cheaters run this game L fr

[warm lynx]

if you can acquire green and blue with good modifiers they still would sell I don't see your point outwheiging the pros

[steel geyser]

the easiest fix for pub stompers would be to stop them from playing pubs if they are above a certain gear cap

[golden void]

This feels more like a Reddit thread than a discord channel

[weak umbra]

it will never happen

[main raven]

I honestly don't think I have. I might go do that, but I've also been posting this exact suggestion in this Discord fairly often, so I'm hoping it just gains community traction

Most of the suggestions that are posted seem to generally be ignored on the actual website

[sage crown]

^^^^^^

[steel geyser]

pub stompers would be forced to gear down for pubs or play highroller

[weak umbra]

just go back to reddit

[golden void]

^

[main raven]

Again, you can still get crazy BiS green/blue gear that would make you a nightmare in Normals

[warm lynx]

I suggest you create one because the idea is decent.

Do a good post with pros , cons , explain your POV and invite people to give feedback.

[main raven]

Should I post it on Reddit (where I seem to generally be ignored) or the actual Suggestion site?

[hybrid schooner]

Game keeps crashing , what to do ?

[amber nest]

It's bad enough they gave us the pubstomping baby queue with trade lock
Imagine how bad it would be if all play after was just getting slaughtered by optimized green +all/damage kits

[warm lynx]

Actual suggestion site, reddit is dumb.

And introduce it in suggestion chat you''l have my vote

[steel geyser]

blues and greens are ok in pubs because thats the stuff u can find in the dungeon, but full purple and golds loadouts are almost impossible to get in pubs so why should u be able to run them outside of hr

[tropic trellis]

I guess the game needs 4 things :

• Less resources (gold, gears...)
• Balancing classes
• Better trading
• Feedback on report, action against cheaters (also -> https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493277/feedback-on-report)

[weak umbra]

its funny that all your suggestions were ruled out already

[golden void]

My green rogue kit with a single blue dagger hits for 160+ ambush+weakpoint

[main raven]

A Rogue using full +Weapon Damage is gonna be busted in Normals

[golden void]

I tried it in normal GC I one shot every class with a headshot

[loud oasis]

Just get better at the game guys, tarkov removed player own gear selling and it ruined the game completely. Get over it

[steel geyser]

i dont think crazy gear is problem, i think its the fact that you can bring that stuff in pubs and farm lobbies as long as u want

[golden void]

Maybe they should add a noob dungeon where all the noobs can play

[main raven]

This is what I'm trying to explain. That legit one-taps a starter Barbarian

[noble dust]

I dont think people realize that they just need to tune up classes rather than "remove gear in X gamemode." If I go full damage perks barb, even just naked, my grey starter battleaxe swings for 90-100+, 2nd swing guaranteed over 100. Run Reckless strike+Rage and you're going to at minimum hit a purple plate fighter for 80+ if you land the headshot. Sure some classes struggle and will definitely be at a disadvantage, but thats how gear works in this game.

[main raven]

This is assuming said Fighter isn't running a Longsword or a shield. Neither are very reasonable

[loud oasis]

They just need to cap AR at like 40 and were fine

[golden void]

Real ^

[noble dust]

Aim around the shield tbh, even a body hit alone would hurt the fighter,

[main raven]

40% isn't much at all. The weaker armor sets need to be stronger and plate armor needs to be weaker

[queen nacelle]

Changes to trade systems are desperately needed rn. R M T are leeching the game dead. Project Crawl is going on a test next week and regardless of other things, there is an auction house in that game. DAD will see a very serious competition in the near future.

[steel geyser]

just gear cap pubs so pub stompers have to play highroller and less geared players can actually have a chance at progressing

[noble dust]

If you run Crush, your axe will literally punch through the shield and continue its animation, allowing you to clip the body/leg, and force the fighter into a longer block animation before he can swing, also allowing you to wind up a second swing. A grey felling axe+crush will force most fighters almost 'stun locked' into blocking.

[weak umbra]

do you understand that devs ruled it out already? just go back to reddit and cry for you safe space

[main raven]

I'm pretty sure the initial shield hit will still burn Achilles/Reckless before you actually land the hit

[noble dust]

Thats a possibility, but fighting a blue-purple+ class as a near naked class is generally going to be hard, and will heavily involve a lot more skill or mechanic use on your end to win.

[loud oasis]

Its totally possible. Its not a call of duty game, you cant just run in and expect to win every time

[sick depot]

when is wipe?

[noble dust]

The only class I'd argue isn't fightable when they know how to play is Ranger because they're already going to be camped in a hard to reach spot for melee, and will keep up pressure on any class before they can shoot back/reach them, or a rogue camped up with stealth ready for ambush+weakpoint cheeky one-shots that tend to decimate even 60-70% DR fighters in just 3 swings.

[sacred ice]

it‘s not announced yet

[untold wasp]

this looks like devs are favoring most geared teams, how many of the player population killed the highroller boss? (i would say less then 1%) now they are making it even harder for not super geared players to go there. rich are getting richer and poor are getting poorer thats the life

[loud oasis]

They dont want you stuck in low gear the entire wipe

[sacred ice]

they actually made it easier to go to HR Inferno by reducing the player count

[golden void]

"decimate even 60-70% DR fighter in just 3 swings" tell me you know nothing about the game without telling me

[main raven]

Rogues can do that, though...?

[golden void]

A 160 damage headshot turns into 48 damage at 70% Dr, after that rogue doesn't have anything else to boost his damage

[untold wasp]

if you try to kill HR boss you will die practiceing it so entrance fee is trippled and with 3 man its x9 amount of gold needed, then you have bullshit "coloseum" map, you need to pay 450 gold just to practice the map? com on

[main raven]

Do you not know how Weakpoint works? Or Thrust?

[golden void]

Have you ever played rogue?

[main raven]

Since you didn't answer my question, I'm going to assume the answer is no rofl

[golden void]

So you never played the class, never tried to kill a fighter and still talk about how it takes 3 hits lol

[sacred ice]

I didn‘t do HR boss runs. but I thought the boss mechanices are almost the same HR vs. non-HR. afaik the higher difficulty is more health, stronger adds and the enrage buff of the lich king. or is there more?

[noble dust]

Some rogues also purposely miss the first 2 swings on a castillon dagger to get the third stab attack that literally does nearly 2.5x the damage of the first 2 swings. A naked rogue can hit for 70. What can a purple rogue that stacked weapon damage achieve? Just running a blue cast with +2 dam and +1 strength I achieved 125. You ignore practically 55% of the fighters armor with Weakpoint+Thrust. I've been 2-tapped with 240hp as a barb with rage. I may not fully understand the game, but I can understand that the very first hit the rogue can dish out if it lands a headshot is going to literally drop most people.

[cloud oar]

Weapons would have less damage and armor would have les AR

[untold wasp]

circle that forces you to be close to lich otherwise you take damage, so he punishes you when you try to run away to destroy the orb, also being close with enrage adds is death, much more punishing then regular one

[main raven]

You still haven't proved to me you know what Thrust or Weakpoint does

[golden void]

Yeah run into the rogue that is swinging at the air and visible in front of you

[flint plank]

When does the bug of unsaved inputs will be dealed with ? remove the lvl split, cuz i basically dont wanna play above lvl 15 now, so each time i put a class lvl 15, i just stop playing it, also do something with the spider hitbox who litteraly bump player away or block them in a semi_flying state when they block u against a wall, there is litteraly many other bug that need to be dealed with first who didnt got dealed with since 4-5 hotfix

[noble dust]

Or you know, the rogue behind you that waited so by the time you heard the first swing to turn around, hes already winding up the third swing?

[queen nacelle]

You need to at least make the game can be played for casuals one way or another. There are no new player guides at all and the new sub lvl15 queues are apparently being abused and rampant R M T actions. Their last struggle is to play naked rogues. Casual players and new players are being forced to either quit the game or R M T their gear just to play the game rn.

[golden void]

Well in that case you are just oblivious and deserve to die

[untold wasp]

at the end of the day less then 1% of players have killed HR boss and got access to best loot in the game, now it ironmace makes it harder for other people to even practice HR

[noble dust]

Doesnt matter that sometimes my reaction is fast enough to turn around and hit the rogue, if he has gear, he can tank the headshot, that third swing is still liable to kill anyone under 50% DR and 140 hp in a single hit, watch some of the TTV streamers that play rogue off the HR leaderboard, you'll see them willingly take the hit just to 1-shot a lobster cleric or fighter.

[raw talon]

Let's go baby, PvE and Darker

[noble dust]

If you ignore 55% armor and your base wep damage as a geared rogue is 50-60+ to the body, then add an extra 100% Wep damage+apply headshots, you will kill a geared fighter in less than 4 swings.

[flint plank]

just put a gear rating system i swear lol, split level is stupid, even if u go lvl 5 naked and lvl 15 naked, u'll end up in the lvl 15+ geared lobby

[sacred ice]

ah I see. yeah that new circle sounds nasty

[mental swift]

have they said if the update this friday will bring a wipe with it?

[golden void]

Not even a god kit does 60+ to body

[loud oasis]

The point is, if you are scared of rogues... run expolosive bottles or have a mage with you.. hell be a mage

[raw talon]

The point is, if you're scared of rogues.. be better idk

[golden void]

Also if a rogue is behind you it's just your skill issue, hide is the easiest thing to play around they literally cannot move

[brazen gate]

yea let me farm gear so i cant use it

[raw talon]

Tell me you haven't played rogue before without telling me you haven't before KEKW

You are allowed 10 steps, which isn't much but a rogue won't always be in the same spot.

[steel geyser]

use it in highroller if its all purple LMAO

[golden void]

Tell me you never played rogue, take 1 step and anyone with a headset will be able to pinpoint you

[raw talon]

Oh yeah that fighter in full plate will for sure hear a rogue taking a single walking step with other sound going on around him as well

[noble dust]

"tell me you havent played the game" Purple dagger doing 30+ base, most, if not all of his armor +jewelry pieces are +2 wep dam and/or +1 (or for legacy armor, +2-3 attributes.) Rogue decides to just sit in 1-spot within the circle and wait, hears someone coming, pop hide before they're in visual, you walk by.

[golden void]

Yup I've been heard by full plate many times even while trying to move as they are doing it

[raw talon]

Also yeah if someone hides before you enter a room and you failed to ever hear them they get a free kill on you if they're geared tbh

[golden void]

I run that and hit for 60 with headshots only, also if the room is cleared maybe there's a rogue?

[noble dust]

If you only hit for 60 with headshots, while a naked default rogue can hit for 45-47 with a grey starting castillon dagger, maybe you haven't played rogue?

[raw talon]

A rogue's final stilleto stab with like halfway decent gear will be hitting for at least 140+ alone if they proc ambush and weakpoint

[golden void]

Just swing your weapon around or sit still and wait 45 seconds if you are scared

[noble dust]

I've walked into rooms with skeletons+ a wraith walking around, still had the rogue 1-tap my barb as i was mid swing on the wraith.

[golden void]

Use headphones then

[sacred ice]

were the skeletons and wraith on their original spawn location?

[loud oasis]

If the dude has enough time to miss two swing and then land the third headshot you have other issues my dude.

[golden void]

Actually the strongest rogue counter is just opening a door 1 minute before you actually go in the next room

[turbid yoke]

how does 100g goblin cave entrance makes sense? nobody's gonna play now

[raw talon]

The point being if he lands 140+ after whiffing two swings, he's doing a shit ton more if he lands all 3 as headshots lmao

[noble dust]

Considering the wraith circles the room and skeleton archers usually walk around their pillars in their section of the room on Crypts, it can be difficult to tell.
I already listed earlier @loud oasis some rogues are geared enough that they'll willingly tank the hit if it means they can land the 1-tap. I've been able to swing a felling axe and leave the rogue with nearly 10 hp, but he lands his final strike and 1-taps my barb back.
Theres still legacy gear running about where rogues have similar hp levels as a base barb because of +3 attributes on multiple sets of gear.

[golden void]

A rogue has 3 seconds for ambush to proc and has to have outplayed you and be behind in hide right next to you

[raw talon]

Now with achilles nerf you have to land headshot on first swing or you die kekw

[loud oasis]

A one shot rogue build has failed if you hits you all 3 times

[golden void]

Also what is the point about the +3 sets? Anyone can have +3 lmao

[noble dust]

Not anymore unless you kill it off a player or obtain it from people who had it before they got rid of it in trading. I'm referring to +3 all attributes.

[haughty copper]

An "EA" patch does not sound like a very good patch 😥

[remote yarrow]

Damn 150g for high Roller Crypt. So you gotta Bring atleast 350 to make it Worth more than a regular crypt

[shadow widget]

Truth be told rogue is the best scailing class still

+damage gear is about as bullshit as old achilles

[golden void]

Yeah, meaning any class can have it and equip it, just because a rogue has now it becomes a point?

[sacred ice]

don‘t worry. the Ubisoft Patch will be better

[shadow widget]

Just earlier today I've told dudes some anti rogue tricks including a dedicated anti-rogue ranger build but the said its bullshit and I havent played rogue or something

[sacred ice]

in that case it seems like you set yourself up to be ambushed, if you‘re trying to do the wraith solo in crypts. that seems kinda risky

[shadow widget]

Fyi: if you die to a rogue as a ranger its skill issue always.

This class is a direct counter with no counterplay from rogue side

[golden void]

If you are any other class other than a fighter or cleric with pdr, mage, ranger or bard rogue is pretty scary yeah

[raw talon]

Warlock loves fighting rogues lol

[noble dust]

When rogue has the highest base agility, +3 all attributes allow them to reach the speed cap without buffs. Add in strength to reach similar levels of a naked base barb and flat weapon damage, They tend to scale the best specifically because no other class can ignore 55% armor for 6 full seconds, and the first swing of that is generally doing 100% more weapon damage allowing them to easily break 150-160+ on that swing.

I had a partner and there were 2 rogues, first one jumped me and then they 1v2'd my partner btw involving that situation

[raw talon]

tbf man a +3 all barbarian is way scarier lol. 50 strength 30 agil

[noble dust]

You can at least hear the barb 2 rooms over tbf lol

[shadow widget]

Around 200 hp and speed cap with actives on iirc
@noble dust all classes are the same in this regard

[golden void]

Isn't +1 agi +1 move speed? To reach the cap you'd need +30 all and be running with holstered weapons

[raw talon]

Don't forget the wizard/bard beefing the shit out of him

[noble dust]

+2 move speed as far as i've seen, but Diminishing returns can be applied at higher agility levels, havent been able to get such gear. Equipping +1 attribute heavy leather leggings vs my cloth pants (-8 move speed on leather leggings, -5 on cloth pants) I only lose 1 movement speed. Thats just applying base rogue stats though.

[sacred ice]

I mean, I agree that the TTK is way too high. and I hope they will address this. but not having a rogue detector like a wizard/ranger/bard makes you vulnerable for rogue ambushes. and they outplayed you there

[golden void]

Yeah lol most of the classes hard counter rogue

[noble dust]

Unfortunately I dont have enough friends to join and the last gathering hall group I joined, They killed me after loading in so I don't think I'll try that again. I'm pretty much stuck playing solo lol, I only play with 1 friend and they only play fighter as I play barb, im used to dealing with rangers poking but not a 1-shot rogue that cleared 165 of my hp in 1 swing

[weak umbra]

unlucky then, i never got killed like that

[lone meteor]

i feel like the only people who say rogue is bad have never played highroller and been 2 tapped by a rogue on barbarian with 200hp. actual disconnect from reality

[sacred ice]

honestly, I enjoy playing bard very much. they‘re pretty good and I have no rogue fear, since I pop them out of invis and down them with a 2 falchion swings.

[golden void]

Actual skill issue

[noble dust]

Well, generally rogue is bad. It requires a lot of stats unfortunately after its nerfs, but with those stats, they're allowed to actually land potential 1-shots with specific skills, thats generally the only time I die to a rogue. That, and a magic damage built rogue that allowed his poison damage to tick for 13-14 per second.

[shadow widget]

Rogue is bad but not weak

[boreal island]

early rogue with no gear isn't very strong even though its good at escaping. They're probably sub level 10 and too poor to buy a blue weapon and engage poorly

[noble dust]

I cant play bard until i get a new mouse, my mouse is slightly broken as it tends to double click, so i can't land any notes accurately or block properly. I can barely move stuff to inventory manage rn cause it "clicks" 5-6 times while i hold it down lol

[golden void]

Step 1: equip a pair of headphones

[shadow widget]

Why should I change the way I play only for one class? Please nerf

[boreal island]

I dont think rogue requires that much to be strong though, blue weapon is 50g and you can kill most players from ambush. It literally has one of the most overpowered starting perks in Jokester giving you more stats than any other starter by a mile

[young timber]

Problem for me is that the game is unplayable the moment you hit lvl 15, overgeared ppl in normals everywhere. Impossible to beat with starter gear which forces you to delete your character and make a new one so you can actualy enjoy the game from 1-14 again

[shadow widget]

Dont play normal gc.
Play crypts with the rest of the brokies

[noble dust]

Im mostly referring to them being able to 1-shot people under even an absurd amount of DR. Not trying to classify against low gear

[golden void]

What server you guys playing on? Never found that many overgeared players in goblins

[young timber]

I was mainly talking about crypts and ruins no map gets an execption everywhere overgeared ppl are running around

[shadow widget]

Normal gc dude
Guys are running up to 8k sets there with 2-5 geared dudes every match

Eu primetime hours

[noble dust]

Australia during the morning in the US (Im central) generally has 3 groups in crypts wearing full blue-purple. I played there for like a week due to a friend having known people over there.

[shadow widget]

Idk I only see turbopoors in crypts, and loads of geared dudes in gc

[golden void]

I play eu central I never really had too much of a problem with overgearing

[young timber]

But yeah as said i sadly cant enjoy the game since the 1-14 lvl 15 lobby change, straight up impossible to survive the moment you get broke.

[noble dust]

I've noticed more geared people in GC as well, I'm sure its because they're group isnt on and they'd rather not try to 1v3 and lose a 2k+ set

[brisk mason]

why do u have only starter gear after going level 1-15

[noble dust]

Saw a cleric 2 days ago in GC with 3 pieces of +3 all attr, thats already near 4k off those 3 pieces alone, at least from the trade chat of US east server.

[shadow widget]

Me neither, I kill them mostly as dudes get too cocky with all their gear.

Feels like hitting sonic the hedgehog. Fast, blue, drops tons of rings at the end of the match

[lone meteor]

who cares if people are giga geared i welcome the opportunity to go from zero to hero

[young timber]

Cause i like to play the game chill like and dont want to sweat into normals like a complete baller. Also i dont want to be part of the current problem

[brisk mason]

saw a cleric with gold war mall. +3 all on everything possible, +1 all on the rest, full purps and golds. i was on ranger and sadly died to him since i was too tired. but i could have killed him if i was more on my game. would have been crazy 5k+ kit

[shadow widget]

Play ranger or wiz then
Biggest 3v1 potential

[young timber]

check your dms, good luck on 3v1 ning those

[brisk mason]

bro playing the game and getting gold isnt being "part of the current problem" you deciding you dont want to make gold, and dont want to try to make gold is the reason your having such a rough time in these lobbies. yes it is annoying with the amount of geared ppl at times, however they rlly arent that insanely common and you can escape them

[lunar nymph]

if you just dont get hit biggest 3v1 potenital lies there

[young timber]

The current problem is to high geared ppl in normals, check your dms. Iam gonna show you my average normal game expierence

[shadow widget]

Did that with a blue dagger rogue

[sacred ice]

I don‘t know. a rogue is one-shot dead by a felling axe on the head. they can only win against a barb or high PDR fighter with an ambush. therefore you need to be super cautious not to be ambushed as a fighter or barb.

[brisk mason]

except there rlly isnt many geared kids in normals. especially super high geard. your acting like every game ur against meta comp with full purps

[lone meteor]

"the current problem is everyone is too geared but personally i play on grey gear" when you play valorant do you play with pistols only?? what is your logic here

[loud oasis]

Do you know how easy it is to kill the cave troll? Go farm that dude for an hour and youll have a blue gearset

[eager olive]

There haven't been any nerfs to rogue DPS pretty much since they reworked the way poison works. Double jump and hand crossbow changes were pretty tiny compared to what other classes have gone through.

Speaking of poison, I don't think it's even theoretically possible to get to 13-14 per second per stack on rogue poison. The max you can get in magical damage add is 24, max true magical damage is 14. Assuming you get both that's 38. This would apply a 19 bonus (at 50% scaling) to the base of 4, getting you to 23 damage per stack (5.75 per tick). Which is still high, but not 13-14 high, and would require every item having the max roll on + mag damage and + true magic damage.

[shadow widget]

Well tbh I understand the problem but dont know how to solve it. Maybe give geared dudes more stimulae to go hr.

Rn hr is useless. Same trash loot and juicy dudes/brokies running around 30/70%

[amber nest]

There's no point to running HR when you can just grind cash in baby gamemodes like GC and just buy kits to play Low Roller with

[boreal island]

Dnno why I repeatedly see this take where people claim HR loot is trash? It has like 20x the droprate for good stuff

[shadow widget]

Hr gives no reward for the risk which is uncomfy buttfucking pve

[noble dust]

Might've been a potential cheater then? I just know after he stabbed me once then landed 2 throwing daggers, i went from 152 hp to 0, which is insanely high tick rate of poison, most of his gear was +2 minimum magic damage.

[versed ore]

If you make it out
And the loot is like 15% more
Is really not worth it
Unless you want good pvp

[sacred ice]

unless the PVE gets comfy and easy.

[shadow widget]

Teach me master
To loot something but green rugged boots from this shit gamemode

Its more profitable and fun to farm thiccbois in normal gc

[boreal island]

its not 15% man, look at the drop tables. HR chest drops 10-20x more epic than non HR

[eager olive]

Unless he also had ignite on from a teammate the max poison damage you could have taken would have been 69 then, assuming he did have this unbelievably expensive and weird kit. More likely that he had rupture and stacked +additional phys damage so the tap and two throwing knives messed you up for the rupture to finish you off

[signal kindle]

Ayo 6 people in a HR GC, I wonder how the portal spawns are gonna be effected.

[shadow widget]

0*20=0

[sacred ice]

go to the website called twitch, select dark and darker, click on someone doing HR GC and watch

[noble dust]

Potentially, I just saw most of his gear had magic damage so I assumed it scaled weird with poison, didn't fully invest into seeing how magic damage affected rogue poison

[lone meteor]

the rogue poison build is only worth it if you can get the gear very cheap weapon damage weakpoint will always win out in the long run

[versed ore]

I get what you mean
But you really going HR for pvp mostly

[shadow widget]

Did that, dudes just looting green rugged boots and making twitch clips

[boreal island]

and they are reducing the playercount to 12, it means far less pvp, more chance to loot and get out

[sacred ice]

oh ok. yeah, then you‘re right.

[arctic cove]

I totally get why rogues role play landmines, I had green rapier and jumped a fighter got 12+ hits in and he survived with second wind then 2 shotted me with arming sword. Ambush tech really is rogues only counter to the current balance.

[shadow widget]

Yes, but hit head tho

[eager olive]

Pretty sure guy's not actually done that, or is exagerating. Just look up shark and sharker on youtube. Guy gets some sick loot just from HR gobbos, let alone what you could get going down in HR

[main raven]

Honestly. Bard can rat some nice loot with his 100 Luck though

[arctic cove]

Like 8/12 of them were head shots, since he was blocking with shield its like the only place to stab besides feet

[sacred ice]

after his comment I realized there‘s no reasoning with him. HR GC is highly profitable. even surviving 1/4 troll cave runs will be profitable

[arctic cove]

Like for example on rogue if I 1v1 a bard no ambush I lose, I think people underestimate how bad rogue is without ambush. Basically what I'm saying is the devs made this rogue ambush issue themselves by making rogues useless except for with ambush.

[main raven]

That's when Poison would've been useful, hoenstly. I always run it since it makes PvE MUCH easier to clear, plus its not too bad in PvP

[shadow widget]

I do exagerrate, but the loot you get is not worth the risk. Especially taking into consideration mob density and nerfs for meds.

One stray headshot from a red goblin archer is a pretty lifechanging event for a rogue

[turbid yoke]

Why is Gob HR entry anywhere near crypt? There's no hell level, there's no bosses. You often find grey loots. like wtf??
I will say, the 6 ppl max is a really good change

[boreal island]

hr gob should be deleted imo, its always going to cater to some degenerate playstyle or niche overpowered thing. You dont want it as a source of good loot

[weak umbra]

its just a land mine. weakpoint invis 2 stabs and you can run or die, idk why people are crying so much. even if you actually step on it then 2 teammates can finish it off quick and res you

[turbid yoke]

quite the opposite imo. Gob HR should have great loots, its very PvE focused compared to crypt, many rounds you will just kill gobs, break crates, and get out

[supple scroll]

Don't play it then

[weak umbra]

gc overall should be deleted

[boreal island]

effects of it existing have pretty little to do with if I personally play it or not

[arctic cove]

I think its stupid devs made bard a better fighter than rogue, if you have a bard with rapier and rogue with rapier bard wins.

[boreal island]

Ina straight fight they should. Don't think its nearly as one sided as you say though. But a rogue shouldn't be involved in a fair fight in the first place

[fossil zealot]

LOL you all havent learnt that the dev dont care haha

[arctic cove]

Geared bard has 150+ hp and with buffs attacks and moves like 20% faster than rogue. Its literally no contest unless the bard majorly misplays. Bard also has a counter to rogue stealth that most classes don't have, the argument of just ambushing the bard doesnt work.

[boreal island]

geared rogue 1 or 2 shots that, its pretty close. Plus they get the first hit unless they misplayed

[weak siren]

Thank god, the people who complain here shouldn't be listened to. It's great they actually try out things and get some data.

[near canyon]

am i the only one that drops fps to as low as 20 while looking at certain rooms in some raids but not others?

[weak umbra]

no

[ivory dew]

same

[young timber]

happens quite often specialy in the prison room with the zombies and archer skeletons

Also happens often if Wizards keep spamming light orbs, but that might just be a personal performance issue

[arctic cove]

Well boys we've passed peak Dark and Darker hope you all enjoyed it.

[grizzled creek]

Devs just wanna see what a price increase would do, what kinda players are playing hr gc/crypt, this isnt a permanent change and i have no idea why so many people are crying over it

[young timber]

Inceasing the value you get out of HR is atleast very good so maybe all the full geared teams go out of normals

[turbid yoke]

let kitted teams farm off of players that they catch. let random pubsies farm off of the map loot. GC HR risk vs reward makes 0 sense atm.
6 player max is very good change so far though, so we will see

[empty sun]

Please don't ping Devs for stuff like this 👍

[cursive shuttle]

I hope they do more with cheaters soon.

Had a guy in the gc in the area above me, come down and hit me out of invis immediately after I wasn't even moving.

But like...okay! Freaking ridiculous.

[narrow idol]

Alright so who should i ping instead

[empty sun]

Ask a warden or the community and check announcements, if anything about it was announced someone will know

[young timber]

So basicly no one 😄

[empty sun]

But no we currently don't have any news on any plans for custom games or anything for testing stuff out yet

[narrow idol]

Alright i'll do that next time

[empty sun]

Thank you appreciate it

[hidden shuttle]

rogues absolutely need a damage nerf

[young timber]

everyone needs a dmg nerf

[hidden shuttle]

how so everyone? recently only been killed by 1 tapping rogues so i cant rly compare any other class

[neat trellis]

This has to be a troll post…please name 1 game that gets as many updates consistently as this one. Ill wait.

[supple scroll]

if everyone gets a dmg buff nothing will change?

[agile kraken]

0 i am in dark and darker since PT2 and since then i didnt saw any game that makes consistent update to balance it.
actually icarus its quite the same, they do updates every week

[weak umbra]

*number changes

[young timber]

There is way to much dmg in the game in generel. There is no space for any mistakes. Aslong you dont have 70% pdr are mostlikely to be killed in a timespan of 1-2 seconds. For example from a fireball or 2-3 zaps or a tripple shot of a ranger or even a bard that is fully buffed and debuffed you

[arctic cove]

Go back to playtest 2-3 please, devs your killing the game unironically

[cursive shuttle]

I agree with this completely. Either health boost or a full dmg nerf across the board would be much better.

[weak umbra]

[lone meteor]

those playtests were extremely broken just nobody was abusing

[arctic cove]

There was less dupes back then lmao

[hidden shuttle]

that makes sense tho, wizards are meant to do dmg so fireball killing in 2-3 shots makes complete sense. but a rogue stabbing u in the face with a teeny dagger and doing 150dmg does not make sense

[young timber]

No nerfing everyones dmg will generely help the game. The problem is armor also has to be adjusted afterwards since full plate will be a problem afterwards. I realy liked the overall nerfs on weapons on every weapon

[neat trellis]

I don’t think people understand how hard this game is to balance, it’s not a “just nerf this and it’s fixed”

[weak umbra]

watch some pt 2-3 gameplay and tell me this game is better now

[hidden shuttle]

point is playtest 2-3 were so balanced that it felt like nothing rly needed to get buffed/nerfed, atleast I thought so back then

[young timber]

Both are oneshots that leave no room for any counterplay the moment you take 1 step to far. So it doesnt care what class can do it.... it is unfair in generel

[cursive shuttle]

Something else that needs to change. Warlock hellfire gouing through walls as far as it does. Literally got killed by two other people fighting as a hellfire came through the wall. Legit killed me in two seconds.

Gtfo here with warlock dude.

[slim maple]

Crossbow headshot baby, the only counterplay you need is to rekit

[hidden shuttle]

they should add guns that do 200dmg per shot and let everyone use them 🤓

[young timber]

So you have to be lucky? Sry thats not reliable.

[weak umbra]

you seriously cant dodge hellfire? i dont know what to tell you

[neat trellis]

They were not balanced. They just only lasted 2 weeks each.

[novel plover]

cringe game forces you to be cringe

[hidden shuttle]

i just want to see and be killed by anything other than a rogue in normal goblin caves
is that so much to ask? :(

[cursive shuttle]

You "seriously" can't read?

I was in a completely separate room. Not even apart of the damn fight. I got hit through the wall while I was breaking pots. I happened to be facing the other way and it took a total of 2 seconds to die.

It needs to be changed, like everything else in this game, to not go through walls. Idc about doors. It can go through doors all day.

But it shouldn't go through walls.

[eager plover]

Guys any tips on being hardstuck gray geared? I know im not alone cause everyone i playwith has the same issue 😛 But I get one or 2 shots alot by full purpled squads, its fine but I dont know how to rotate on this, any tips other then git gud ?

[novel plover]

nah it should be sentient like a guiding missile following players tbh too weak rn ur just bad unlucky lmao

[winged moth]

you can get used to it's sound

[hidden shuttle]

wait until dmg/rogue nerfs, then try goblin caves

[neat trellis]

Every class has a counter, you’ll have a new complaint for every new class you start maining. Rogues op til you start playing rogue.

[cursive shuttle]

Nah, sound quality in gc is ass.

[weak umbra]

headphones exist you know? you seriously didnt reacted after hearing hellfire like 3m away? also who tf break pots when another team is fighting behind a wall run or 3th party them

[glacial night]

leave wall away

[novel plover]

"rogues op till you start playing rogue" ahahahaahahhaha nice joke

[hidden shuttle]

"cant beat em join em?" no thanks, i used to main rogue im so bored of it i just wanna try other classes

[young timber]

So i have asked that question many times already too. A lot of people tell me that iam delusional and just tell me to ''get good'' so yeah... i doubt you will get a diffrent answer

[eager plover]

Yeah its hard to get a genuine awnser, but theres gotta be some nice and skilfull players out there with some advice 🥰

[novel plover]

kill your teammates only option

[young timber]

Tag me whenever you got a solid answer still looking for it too. Which doesnt include deleting the character and making a new one until lvl 15 and redo it again

[neat trellis]

That wasn’t my point..rogue has many counters. So does every class. But yes, if you get stabbed in the back from a stealthed rogue he’ll kill you, head on fight most classes can easily out trade a rogue

[cursive shuttle]

I wa sin gc. I was in the area with the water pool going towards centipdes.

They were on the complete other side. I would of had to go up and around. There is not real sound from the other side there with where they were fighting.

[novel plover]

lmao i actually think this is what devs believe this is their mindset

[weak umbra]

run naked and try to farm, buy a good weapon or a whole set if you want to farm more. blue weapon for like 100-150 gold and grey set is enough to put down anyone with similar gear, or anyone in general if you are ranged

[hidden shuttle]

how am i supposed to counter when an invis rogue jumps on me and stabs me in the face once and im dead? im stuck on greys just like most other people that dont play rogue. I cant even afford potions

[neat trellis]

What class do you mainly play?

[young timber]

That doesnt apply since you cant beat full blue + purple gear with that

[novel plover]

you gonna refute me? xD

[eager plover]

Thanks!!! Imma try roaming more with a stronger weapon, i always buy the white ones in the normal merchant

[young timber]

In tarkov you atleast have the suprise effect to get a lucky 1 shot on a geared guy. Not possible in this game sadly.

[neat trellis]

Idk why you think this needs to be toxic, I’m genuinely just trying to have a conversation..

[jaunty bear]

Just escape goblin caves, every run should be 60-120 gold

[hidden shuttle]

"just escape" lul

[young timber]

yeah just ''get good'' i love that answer

[chrome crest]

Do you think is good for the game to have full equipped parties and grey parties in the same loby? Or its needed matchmaking changes?

[eager plover]

So basically, naked > buy blue weapon > try to snowball into stolen gear from kills? > repeat

[formal moon]

Don't play gc, go solo crypts

[past patrol]

Man half of every Ruins lobby is just rouges. Kinda insane

[sacred ice]

based on the conversations here. you definitely have the chance to get a lucky one hit as a rogue

[novel plover]

can anyone please tell me in what world is wizards chain lightning balanced? please someone explain

[young timber]

defently a big change, it will kill the casual playerbase... specialy if it hit steam maybe. Increasing the value of HR is a good measure against that but we will have to see if it will make a diffrence

[eager plover]

Yo thanks guy for being authentic on me question 💪🏼😘🔥

[neat trellis]

Have you tried using chain lighting on wizard?

[jaunty bear]

What else do you want, there is no magic trick for getting gear, you have to learn the game slowly, learn how the ai moves and just focus on clearing and escaping

[novel plover]

bro ur not getting me with this hit questions im not some 20 hours new player ive played all playtests except one and yes i ver tried it and its broken

[young timber]

Problem though is its not that easy. In the current state of the game it is mostly out of your own power if you get out or not. Since there is always a geared team in your lobby that usualy hunts you down for some reason. If that specific team wants you dead you will die... that is not in your controll

[sacred ice]

learn the maps, learn to PvE without taking damage. learn avoiding fights and running away. then you can start learning PvP

[neat trellis]

We’ll I can tell you’re trying to say it’s broken and when it comes to chaining dead body’s I could agree that’s not fair, but all the downsides of using that spell don’t make it op imo. You have to get very close to use it on the squishiest class in the game.

[chrome crest]

I have a lot o friends who dropped the game cause being rushed every single time by a full equiped party XD os just unplayable and there is no counter play

[eager plover]

Thanks, i got to that point allready (was hard to learn) i can even do hell runs with little to no DMG, but a purple fighter oneshots me with a crossbow full HP 😦

[late atlas]

What’s a EA patch ?

[sacred ice]

what class are you playing?

[novel plover]

are you on the balances team? did the devs hire you?

[jaunty bear]

Gotta play rogue and be a rat or go solo caves

[eager plover]

At the moment ranger, but have all classes except cleric lvl10+

[neat trellis]

I just don’t look at things from 1 perspective.

[young timber]

I do agree to this. I did not encounter the rushing issue but the fully geared problem. As i previously described in my message is that the game rightnow feels pretty bad since it is no longer in your hands if you get out or not. You can play perfect but still die cause some person with a godcomplex wants you dead.

[young timber]

The game should not be designed to be forced to play 1 single class, also goblin caves is full of fully geared too.

[novel plover]

maybe thats the problem they change things that seem good and only on paper but in practice it all fumbles thanks for making me understand the devs

[jaunty bear]

If you can escape 50% of the time its good enough

[onyx salmon]

hey guys, how populated is Australia/asia servers on dark and darker these days?

[young timber]

50% oh thats pretty ambitious iam just happy if i get out once every 10 games if i even have enough patients to play 10 games a day since its that disencouraging

[glacial night]

full of cheaters

[neat trellis]

I don’t like some of the changes they made even to my most hated class barb. I don’t believe in nerfing things into becoming unusable.

[sacred ice]

yeah, ranger is a bit hard against a high PDR fighter with a crossbow. when your in ranged combat your advantage is faster shoot speed (in comparison to his crossbow). dodging his shots is necessary to win the fight. in that case I don‘t know what to suggest other than trying to bait his crossbow shots and keep him on range.

[young timber]

What specificly do you mean with the barb nerfs? The achilles strike change for example is just a redesign not a nerf

[eager plover]

Thanks buddy 🙏, imma try treathing enemies a bit more like dark souls and the game as well

[cursive shuttle]

A rogue comes into normal gc with 50 agility and 40 strength, +3 all gear.

But yeah, it's a git gud problem. Not a problem of high geared just enjoying face rolling lowbies in normals because they suck too much to fight in HR.

[onyx salmon]

are there many videos showing this?

[young timber]

Yes sir

[neat trellis]

Achillies was obviously “broken” but now it’s useless in the current meta. I don’t really like changes like that, seemed like they rushed a “quick fix” to me

[glacial night]

u can have a try

[sacred ice]

I‘ve read it so many times, but I didn‘t get the impression when watching spudhunter‘s streams.

[novel plover]

if this game goes on like this i realy hope it dies

[cursive shuttle]

Definitely not useleless. It makes you immobile if hit by a franseca axe.

Achilles is honestly in a good spot. Does just enough to keep you close to barb without terrorizing you with nothing but throwables.

[noble dust]

The redesign for the axe spec perk and horsemans axe nerf definitely made fighters with arming swords able to push you easier. Need a viking sword now since a grey viking sword does like 7-8 more damage than a grey horsemans axe

[arctic cove]

Its crazy how we went from 50% of gobo caves lobbies being barbs to barely seeing them like 1/9, devs really suck at balancing without completely nerfing stuff into the ground

[young timber]

Its not useless at all. It just help barbs to be more sticky to their target which means every achilles strike hit is basicly a garanteed kill. No class can get out of his range even the felling axe as soon achilles was hit. So i do believe that you look onto achilles strike the wrong way and i would advise you to play with it a bit to realise that it is still as strong as it was before

[novel plover]

if you wanna see mostly which items are broken or not just check their prices in the trading channel

[glacial night]

u will be killed by three head shot from rangers everytime

[cursive shuttle]

It's just the most toxic thing about this game. I am hoping this friday comes with a wipe tbh.

[zinc pelican]

I see barbs all the time in goblin caves wym

[young timber]

You see thats an argument, but to be fair it again just got redesigned to encourage to run big axes instead of the horsemen which can be seen as nerf to be fair since most 2 handed axes that benefit the most of the % are pretty bad

[narrow flower]

I still believe that no equipped loot being dropped in normal lobby would fix a ton Idk seems to me it would be less rewarding for high geared players to run normal.... and if they did which they will regardless at least you arnt loosing the little bit of loot you have and you could slowly build.... I think it would bring more people to hr cause you could build loot and experience without being taxed on death so heavily in a low tier dungeon that once again is going to be unbalanced regardless

[sacred ice]

that sounds good. there‘s so many fights, where you only have a small chance of winning. either because of the gear difference or because of the opposing class. it‘s frustrating to learn, cause of the many deaths. but imho it pays off

[novel plover]

they have to nerf the damage in this game its too high

[noble dust]

Achilles before its nerf allowed a blue throwing axe with axe spec+executioner to 1-shot in the head if he landed such a throw. A 10% slow wasnt much, but it doing 5 damage per step definitely made anything that didnt 1-shot, kill you just by taking a few steps after. Now it forces people to fight the barb, rather than go "whelp i have to take this headshot or die walking either way"

[young timber]

Yeah it basicly does the same as before just not as unfair anymore then before. But iam honest it still feels very disencouraging to get hit by achilles since the moment you get hit you know you cant outmove a felling axe anymore for example. Which will lead to your death

[eager olive]

It's likely a perception bias. The devs even mentioned it in the Q&A. When people only had a week to play they didn't really have the time to form an opinion on balance, or at least didn't really care that it was unbalanced. They hoped that this would actually continue into early access, but realised that with a month+ under everyone's belts it's become a massive issue that they've needed to divert resources to address it.

I can certainly think of things that were broken in the PTs. Axe Specialisation used to provide +10 additional phys damage to axes. Including frannies, for example. +3 All atts was available on every single piece of gear including gloves. It was wild

[noble dust]

Thats completely fair, but that helped with quality 2h axes, when it takes a green horsemans +axe spec to outdamage a grey viking sword, i disagree with that, especially since the viking sword makes you run at -20 instead of -30

[sacred ice]

that‘s one of the worst ideas I heard so far. where‘s the thrill if you can‘t lose your gear?

[narrow flower]

@sacred ice that's what hr would be for you loose collected loot from that run

[lament fox]

150G ?? WTF man

[young timber]

I do agree its a heavy nerf to 1 handed no single doubt. But the devs just decided they want to give more love to the 2 handed so nothing you can do about it sadly.

[neat trellis]

I see what you mean, but considering the long bow base kit has a 40% slow on hit, Achilles to me in later game play has almost zero use. I guess it’s good for getting close to wizards.

[hidden shuttle]

i genuinely thought that was fine tho, every class was viable in one way or another, the only deciding factor in fights other than skill was gear, not class

[noble dust]

It's at least better than having a +physical damage built barb add an extra 20-30 damage on a headshot+ a bleed if you walk tbh, at least you can attack back against the barb. Both are definitely bad spots to be in, one where you cant outwalk the highest 2H dps wep, or a throwing axe was liable to kill you in a chest-headshot

[sacred ice]

why would someone play HR if they can play without consequences on normals?

[noble dust]

I wouldnt mind it so much if they slightly increase the battle axe range. I dont think a rapier or some other 1hs should outrange a 2h so noticeably.

[young timber]

Yeah i do agree it is more fair now... but still feels very bad. Atleast i do believe in a skilled players hand every sucessfull achilles strike is a kill. Aslong you dont faceplant yourself into a 70% pdr fighter.

[eager olive]

I don't think zero loot drops would be good. Yeah, it'd fix the juicers going into normals since they'd had little to gain from it - but it would also make it almost pointless to do PvP for everyone else too - the only incentive would be to try and get an escape portal.

A better idea I think would be some sort of durability system. Either progressive durability loss on each game played (so you're more incentivised to keep your good gear for actual HR raids), or durability loss per death (so that explicitly going out to loot other player's stuff becomes less profitable). Or a bit of both.

[young timber]

I personaly would be happy if they would announce the bardiche as axe aswell so it gets the % dmg bonus aswell. But yeah i do agree battle axe range should be buffed.

[cursive shuttle]

Nah, it's good for legit every class that has any mobility. Got a fast rogue or a ranger hitting you from far away?

Pop your speed boost an dhit them with franseca and it's a guaranteed kill.

It was extremely busted before.

But now the additional move speed debuff is great. Add the franseca axe debuff in and you make them compeltely immobile for a few moments.

[narrow flower]

@eager olive just equipped loot loot gathered that round would be dropped other than equipped but I can see your point as well just figured it's a point in the right direction

[neat trellis]

Honestly yeah it’s hard to disagree with all that, you’re right. Im definitely not advising it be reverted though I’m fully aware how broken it was, I hated barbs😂

[cursive shuttle]

Barb is probably the weakest it's ever been honestly.

[noble dust]

if not buff the range, then increase the swing speed a little, not too much to rival the felling axe dps, but enough that you're not punished as bad. A felling axe miss can be recovered if you crouch fast enough to slap the ground and get a quicker reset for another swing. Battle axe needs love when a white-green felling axe can outdps a purple battleaxe lol

[young timber]

Yeah i fully agree. Battleaxe just feels like a worse felling axe... even though it is obvious that it originaly was designed to fill the middle ground between felling axe and bardiche.

[warped belfry]

Cringe

[cursive shuttle]

Battle axe is hot garbage lol.

[eager olive]

Think the issue with "just equipped loot" is that it would have some weird follow on considerations. If equipped gear can't be looted - what happens if a teammate dies and you resurrect them? Are they naked until you find random stuff on the ground? Or can your teammates still pick it up? If teammates can still pick it up, then you're encouraging rogues even more, since they're more likely to be able to pick off someone after a team fight to then loot the stuff in the "carrier's" inventory. And so on

[noble dust]

Battle axe has barely any more range than felling axe, similar damage, but similar swing speed of a bardiche, its definitely rough for starter barbarians to learn how to move properly in pvp if you dont get a new axe quickly

[eager olive]

Battle axe is thoroughly awful. Double axe on the other hand: chef's kiss

[narrow flower]

@eager olive ? Maybe I'm loosing you but if your teammate died when he ressed he'd have his equipped gear

[young timber]

Yeah i had mutiple situations where i outmoved a babarian with a rapier. The moment i saw him start swinging you backpaddle and get a free hit. Absolutely nothing barb can do about that besides hitting achilles strike beforehand on me

[noble dust]

Before the achilles nerf, i made a purple double axe swing for 190 on the head + an extra 27 from achilles, tie in the bleed if they move, and even plate fighters feel the swing

[eager olive]

Only with the cleric spell. I mean rez from an altar, which is by far the more common way of rezzing people.

[young timber]

Yeah doubleaxe is disgusting rightnow 10% dmg on it is absurd + 10% headshotdmg with the other perk. Blue doubleaxe will 1 tab anyone besides a geared cleric or fighter

[noble dust]

The issue i have with barbarian is exactly that, back peddling heavily reduces your top speed, but barbarian swinging while moving is so slow that any wep that outranges battle/felling axe just plays ring around the rosie with the barb. Rogues with a rapier will have 'slightly' more range than your battle axe, so they get free pokes till you drop unless you land an achilles+throwing axe

[azure shell]

You can even do it with a dagger as a rogue

[young timber]

Stop suggesting rogue iam not scum that plays that class

[azure shell]

It was an example that is not even about the weapon range

[eager olive]

Made the mistake of fighting a barb with a blue double axe on my 1-15 mellee warlock run. Had gotten myself up to 125 HP or such, blue LS felt pretty confident. Guy was even being friendly and didn't seem to want to fight me, I just felt like fighting someone that seemed at an equal gear level. Literally one-tapped in the head from what felt like outside Lsword range haha

[noble dust]

I just fought a barbarian with a blue bardiche as my fighter, but i was a lightly clothed fighter running dual wield+slayer and after he missed his 3 swing combo, was able to swing 4 times before he got another swing in. Adrenaline rush is absurd if you get on top of someone

[young timber]

Yeah thats what iam saying double axe is the strongest barb wep rightnow by far. Specialy against warlock since they dont have proper headshot protection since they dont have ANY good helmets to prevent big chunks of dmg

[narrow flower]

@eager olive yeah when using the alter in normal you'd just ress with your equipped loot

[noble dust]

The only wep arguably stronger than double axe, is warmaul. 30% armor pen makes any headshot with rage up on a high quality war maul similar to a double axe without needing to carry reckless strike

[young timber]

bardiche is basicly a halberd for barbs. It requires a more defensive playstyle to be fair from your story i realy thought you would have been 1 tapped by the bardiche since you were playing slayer = not tanky at all

[dense forum]

As a longsword fighter, I second this! Every Barb play double axe, please!

[eager olive]

I absolutely love the warmaul meme. You can cosplay as a rogue by turning off the lights behind a door and just swing when someone opens it and walks through

[noble dust]

They had just gotten out of a fight from a bard and i assume panicking, didnt remotely try their swings. He easily couldve 1-shot me in the head if he was patient.

[young timber]

Longsword bros are chads you cant argue about longsword beeing broken because in that case it litterly is a skill diff get parried nabs

[dense forum]

I actually find Felling Axe, at least in group compositions, to be vastly superior to the double axe.

[noble dust]

Purposely miss to go for a sideways swing, clip the legs is the only idea i can think of to not be so predictable from a longsword parry. That or just play felling axe off-hand and go straight for the thighs every time

[young timber]

iam just a persoanl heavy disliker of the felling. Since it requires you to either run achilles or a wizard in your party to speed you up

[dense forum]

Speed boost from rage is all you need, bb.

[noble dust]

A lot of fighters greed so hard for the long sword parry, they dont stop blocking even after you land a successful hit, so i find aiming for the lower mid section to force them to actually attack so you go for the head, or melt them with raw dps as they figure out a way to angle a parry is funny

[young timber]

I personaly do not think so. If i see a barb running at me with a felling i press x and run the opposite direction until his rage is off. 8s are nothing realy aslong you dont get pressured by a wizard or ranger at the same time

[noble dust]

Warlocks with a good quality long sword mixed with BoC though? I despise fighting them, 1 parry is all they need for a headshot that adds an extra +30 magic damage

[dense forum]

Then he either raged too early or didn't bring enough francisca or both.

[young timber]

Yeah warlock longsword is hella funy just oneshot on a parry

[young timber]

If he spends time throwing franscicas at you while rage is active you know its a trash barb

[novel plover]

@young timber you a fellow longsword enjoyer?

[noble dust]

You down to play sometime? I definitely need to improve my barb gameplay more lol. I got too many purple battle axes and not enough people to play with lol

[young timber]

No iam not good enough to do so, but i get the appeal because i watch oggieson the longsword legend himself. @noble dust you mean me?

[dense forum]

Battle axe is a mistake right there, fam. Horrible weapon.

[noble dust]

Ye, i dont got enough people to play with even though i mostly got the game because of friends, but they either stopped playing or i figured out they dont enjoy playing with me

[novel plover]

they completely screwed over 2 handed weapons for fighters its all shield and falchion now or arming sword wtf is this game

[dense forum]

Longsword? Halberd? Wut u talkin' bout? Both of those weapons are top tier.

[final vault]

there is nothing stoping you from using a 2hander, it still does good damage. shield is just better as it is more versatile

[noble dust]

I didnt buy them, farming the troll and getting horrible weapon drops happens sometimes lol

[novel plover]

?????if you are not using a shield you get less armor you get rolled by rangers and wizards theres so much advantage over 2 handed for nothing + falchion is still op blue longswords only sell for 50 g when they used to sell for like 200 so no

[dapper shadow]

ngl 2h sucks

[weak umbra]

that's why you have bow/crossbow in a second slot

[dense forum]

I think you need to spend some time learning about the game, friend. You just said using a shield provides you with armor that helps you vs... wizards?

[noble dust]

Im new to fighter, and i dont like using the longsword too much, but i cant say its not a good weapon, landing a parry guarantees a headshot right after if you know how to aim. Halberd has insane reach and good damage, making any other melee class forced to close the gap or avoid you all together.

I dont even use a shield on Fighter, I use slayer+dual wield and just go in swinging wildly

[dapper shadow]

Can maybe use it as a third weapon, but thats about it