suggestion-discussion

[rugged summit]

So Barb has always been a speedy boy. Mind you, Barbs are definitely over-tuned form this, he will get dialed back im sure (I hope)

[onyx citrus]

idk eu region feels good when it comes to filling lobbies. plus empty lobbies exist cause one queue picks up all the players and the next queue has no playing to pick up

[royal plinth]

Biggest complaint is SDF refusal to budge or listen to the community regarding his vision of low ttk. I love long fights in this game that lead to higher levels of build/skill expression as well as being able to express map/mob understanding mid fight.

[onyx citrus]

Plus ttk wasnt because of gear and stuff like that, it was just that tanks were a little overtuned (fighter, full tank barb or bard), but all that needed a nerf was dark plate and cap armor roll at like 3 on rings and cloak and 8 on gear imo

[royal plinth]

literally just jewelry/capes/gloves/boots needed adjustment

[onyx citrus]

I completely agree with you. That is why I said it is not ttk, that is the problem, it was cleric + fighter or cleric + bard or just tank gear in general (demon lock, fighter)

[rugged summit]

look i understand a lot of you just grinded for a month to buy BIS gear, and your stashes got nuked. That was poopy, and you should definitely be upset about that. No disagreement there. But if you don't see how this change will improve the longevity of this game, you need to consider the design philosophy of games.

There simply aren't enough "Hardcore" players to keep this game in existence. The cost of gear has done nothing but inflate for the past year. I remember when you didn't even have stash expansions. 1 page per character, 2k in gold could get you the abosulte best shit.

[onyx citrus]

That is why they made gear more accessible by making chests better. In the long term that change was BIS but this patch nullified that change completely

[rugged summit]

All he has done is cave to player demands about TTK. Literally. The result? The game has been on steady decline since it's gloious playtest era

[royal plinth]

this game is hardcore no mattyer how much you water it down. It wont last by gathering new "hardcore players" it will last by retaining the hardcore players you do gather

[rugged summit]

And it hasn't been retaining those players. the people who introduced me to this game stopped playing 6 months ago because of how out of control gear diff got.

[onyx citrus]

Oh and also you saying there arent enough hardcore players, Rust is full hardcore and the playerbase is insanely large. TTK isn't a problem, the problem in this game is variety. You can farm tea in rust, farm the road or go Oil rig. See the variety in getting good stuff?

[royal plinth]

This is not true at all dude. sdf has called for lower ttk since he replaced terry as lead designer

[rugged summit]

Using Rust as an example is hilarious given it's history. Were you there in the community when they decided to reboot the game? LOL they swore it was the end... best decision that studio ever made.

[rugged summit]

SDF was always lead designer btw.

[onyx citrus]

Just let this change get reverted cause it was a fail and let them come up with a new design cause TTK was never a problem for most players, gear diff was. And ttk is only on the tanky classes or with clerics. Plus you saying it is better for new players that arent so hardcore, you can get uniques in every marvelous now and inferno in norms is great. So idk why rush this change, just let the improved loot change develop over time and if it doesn't work, make a different change not just drop this nuke and ignore it forever.

[royal plinth]

facepunch has been one of the most active, productive and responsive dev teams I've witnessed in my 20 years of gaming. Name a game with a more consistant player base

[rugged summit]

read what i wrote again. Facepunch are legends. Were you in the community when the studio decided to completely remake the game? I played like 250 hours on legacy RUST. I was there. The community acted pretty much like this community is acting right now.

They swore it was the end for the game, and studio. But the devs were right, and it was the best thing they ever did.

[royal plinth]

he was lead developer and replaced terry as lead designer.

he is a coder doing a balance teams job

[rugged summit]

Terry has openly said. multiple times, this whole game is SDFs brainchild.

anyways point is. im here for this. The game actually feels great. it feels like it finally respects my time.

[royal plinth]

Doesn't change the fact that terry stepped down as lead designer and when he WAS in that position, player count peaked and I enjoyed the game the most I ever have

[rugged summit]

Look i don't know how to tell you guys this, but if the game keeps going in the direction everyone here is suggesting, it won''t exist in a year.

[royal plinth]

I disagree and have uninstalled until we are back on that path

[rugged summit]

Good luck bud.

[royal plinth]

you too! I hope you get lots of victory royales in your squire gear!

[tidal lake]

This is the most reddit neckbeard chronically online take you can have. It speaks to a lack of power and control offline so being unable to emotionally regulate and be an adult. They are halfway through a massive change to the system and yall are so whiny about what's "yours " that you would rather try to crash a game than wait for the end result. It's a bunch of children throwing a tantrum. You clearly enjoyed your time up till now to be throwing a fit like this. You need to grow up

[rugged summit]

Leather Leggings: Common
Armor Rating 23
MS -4
Will 5

Leather Leggins : Rare
Armor Rating 23
MS -4
Will 5

• +2 Vigor
• +3.5% buff duration

Which of these pieces of gear is better?

[rugged summit]

Thank you friend. I was beginning to think im the crazy one.

[royal plinth]

arguably the common because they cost nothing and lower your gear score to the minimum

[rugged summit]

You're grounded. Go to your room... WOW.

[royal plinth]

good one?

[tidal lake]

Lower gear score isn't really a boon though, it is IF you're scared other people might use the sub rolls that you're simultaneously trying to dismiss as unimportant, which contradicts that point entirely

[rugged summit]

Gearscore is pretty much gone already. GS was a bandaid solution to the real problme of gear being insanely OP

Also saying that the common is better is objectively false. +2 Vigor is better than not having it.

[rugged summit]

He can't even agree to the most obvious fact that a gear piece with extra stat rolls, is better than a gear piece without them. Everyone is literally acting like they took away rarities, and stat modifiers. Meanwhile i'm looking at the pieces i just looted with +3 Phys Pow / + 2 Agility. Thinking wow, those will work nicely on my MP5 (Survival bow) Ranger.

[royal plinth]

I am glad you enjoy this patch I guess. I don't share this positivity you have and I hope that those who disagree are vocal enough to incite change that will bring me back.

[tidal lake]

Exactly, it won't be admitted but most of the complaints ARE about not being able to gear check other players. I don't think if the system stays as it is it will be a good thing, but i think this is a better fix than the gear disparity we had, and a better foundation to build from.

For instance in the future rarity can come with gear sockets now that you can augment with gems of matching rarity that can be crafted or found, that could change sub stats, swing patterns or even how abilities function, suddenly a heal over time could become an instant heal spell upfront ect

They great have to finish cooking. They should have admittedly finished the design and not buffed any other classes before that like they did with barb. They do fail at utilizing test servers. But this is the most skill based the game has been.

We could not have made more brackets with the few players we have across 3+maps, they would all be dead lobbies and trying to tell people not to play is going to exacerbate that

I'm going back and forth on this to be honest
Barb buff was completely unnecessary. They tried to address fighters which i support.

I think mid season drastic change of gameplay is bad no matter how you slice it. But i can get what they wanted to do. We've been angry that balance is bad and how in 24s druid is bad to play outside a spear build that makes you play like worse version of fighter. Or about how if you hit 125 you're gonna get smoked by people who have gotten to the point where grass is merely a memory or theoretical concept than a tangible object with 600 gs. I still would have liked it to be more brackets as the solution but with the player base being what it is that would result in many many dead lobbies. In some ways though this is exactly what was asked for though, for the most part people can't hear rely on gear gap to determine fights. If everyone is overpowered than nobody is. If it weren't for the barb changes and creating such a disparity again the changes wouldn't have been as bad on paper. Take that away and people wouldn't feel like that's the best class to play or ranger or wiz with their 15 magic missles
Now the benefit for rarity is being able to stack off stats. I like that my squire set let's be build what I would have squeezed into 124 before. Farmed gear could be used in high roller. If they stick with this then they can add gem sockets to rarity which immediately puts found and crafted gear back on top when we can insert gems to augment stats/ or even how abilities operate i.e. epic gem that turns restore into a heal instead of HoT. This change does open up new paths for growth and of course people will be upset, but if it had to happen might as well rip the bandaid off.

So the big concern is devs outside the game and burning b trust. "I have concepts of a plan" just tell us the road map, commination, use your test server to test. The changes per class are always heavy handed.

Most people don't even know what's being made at the end (devs need to give People a roadmap and that is on them with no excuse) how are you gonna critique the recipie and steps if you don't know what's being made.
All in the koolaid and don't even know the flavor

And the difference is. I copied and pasted my own words ya melon.

[jolly leaf]

Well how I see thing is that the issues is not Gear stat normalization but Shorter TTK. Right now TTK is so low and white gear is so strong that even if you have good random roll on you epic or legendary gear you'll still get one or two taped by a Base kit Barbarian. That's why "everyone is acting like they removed rarity and stat modfier" because yes they're still there, but almost pointless. I'm not against the gear normalization at least to try it, but they've gone too far. Imo base attribute normalization would have been enough. Maybe reduce a bit the difference of armor rating between min and max rarity but don't lower it to common for every rarity THEN make damage equal to epic THEN reduce everyone hp by 15. It's just too much

[royal plinth]

game is more fun and rewarding the higher ttk is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBNFLwPTn4I

[jolly leaf]

Yes, exactly. That why I think people issues isn't really gear normalization but the fact they reduced TTK drastically

Read #📢announcements They removed gear limitation for HR and put back Dungeon recovery for HR (That's a good thing didn't get why they removed it for HR)

[royal plinth]

I'm new and just killed 5 frostlight players in my squire gear! FK UR TIME AND GOLD LMAO

[rugged summit]

If a new player can kill players that have frostlight armour (a decent time investment to get) those players deserved to lose the frost light. Gear should not make you invulnerable to being outplayed. before this change it could.

They have always said that buying victory in this game is not what they want.

[clever anvil]

They didn’t set limits based on gear score; instead, they destroyed all the hard-earned equipment players worked for, stripping away the motivation to continue grinding for new gear.

[royal plinth]

again. I hope you get lots of victories in your watered down battle royale squire gear version of what this game is capable of being!

[clever anvil]

Players have lost the motivation to venture into dungeons, while poor balance has turned the arena into a slaughterhouse dominated by Barbarians and Rangers.

[royal plinth]

and now they are in hr lol

Incoming cope

[clever anvil]

I had a bad feeling when SDF mentioned that obtaining gear was more about self-satisfaction. He clearly didn’t consider the severe consequences this would bring, and even chose to bypass the test server to implement this update directly.

[rugged summit]

i have already said. Making this change mid-wipe was actually an insane move. I don't understand that decision. He actually nuked the stashes of every player (Including me... had a REALLY nice Arena kit that got smoked from this.)

[royal plinth]

I appreciate you at least recognize this

[rugged summit]

Enough with the hyperbole, and hysteria. It's absurd. I've been playing this game since PT2 and ive seen it be many things. It's now heading towards what it always wanted to be.

[clever anvil]

They’re just aiming to complete cosmetic objectives. After reaching the demigod stage, there won't be much motivation to continue playing, and for many, the process of climbing the ranks wasn't that enjoyable to begin with.

[royal plinth]

it is heading AWAY from what me and thousands of others enjoy. I'm sorry that you find yourself on the other side of this

[rugged summit]

How long have you been playing the game? Genuinely curious.

[onyx citrus]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🇭 🇪 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭

[royal plinth]

Literally day one of playtest one. 2khours steam version alone

[rugged summit]

You remember how many people were in those playtests?

[royal plinth]

Not an exact number and it varied based on the length of each playtest

The first playtests were literally a week at a time

Not to mention we were literally limited to the number of people willing to torrent to play at one point

[rugged summit]

On day one of the Blacksmith launch, there were more than 120k players online.

Players went out of their way to download an unknown launcher, from a random company in Korea, that was being sued by a Multi-Billion dollar company.

Where are those players?

All this talk about retention, and yet it's clear as day that this game cannot retain player on it's current trajectory.

[royal plinth]

well they just lost thousands more players in a single patch and I'm personally quite set one what would be needed to bring me back

[rugged summit]

And these were PURCHASES. You had to buy the game to access it at that time. It's free to play now, and it still can't keep players... why?

[rugged summit]

I assure you, the game is going to steadily see the player count rise over the next year if SDF sticks to his guns.

[royal plinth]

this game will be dead in less then a year if they continue releaseing patches like this one

[rugged summit]

120k people bought this game for at LEAST 35USD. Where are these silent owners? Why did they stop? 2 of them are my friends, the ones who told me about this game when PT2 started. They played with me for the first time today in 8 months.

[royal plinth]

Again, genuinely glad you've found joy in this patch and I hope it lasts. The few friends I had still playing have all quit with this patch and I don't blame them in the slightest.

[rugged summit]

Look im not happy you're not happy about this. Like im not celebrating the idea that likely thousands of players are super pissed about this. I dont want a divided community. It's gets toxic SOO fast.

Im trying to point out that the # of players who found the trajectory of the game acceptable, or agreeable is too small for this game to continue to exist for much longer.

The dopaminerush-God-tier-loot collector game-loop doesn't appeal to enough players. People want a more balanced game, where gear can get you an advantage, but can't win you fights.

[royal plinth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBNFLwPTn4I

[rugged summit]

I've watched it. I know. i know the youtubers and streamers are pissed. I know.

[orchid drum]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/590210/solution-to-gear-rarity-problem

Rarity Based Random Modifiers is the solution bois ! Upvote 😎

[lusty stream]

I will say one thing, it's extremely painful to see all the time retrospectively wasted on grinding to buy gear that is now equivalent to squire gear. This is disgusting levels of rug pulling.

[sullen gulch]

Just wanna thank you for spreading some truth to all the salty unknowers ❤️

[lusty stream]

yea, but to do this patch without warning turning the value of gear in everyone's stashes to dust is disgusting. At this point, I'm not looting a single thing in the game because my trust that what I loot will stay what I loot has completely vanished, and I'm still stunlocked thinking about it

[light flare]

This patch is suckj

[lyric needle]

HR should probably be removed completely to focus on one game. Just give early buyers some store credits.

[hasty flare]

LEAVE NEGATIVE STEAM REVIEWS, PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD ---- THIS IS THE ONLY AVENUE WE HAVE TO EFFECT CHANGE AS PLAYERS, STEAM REVIEWS IS ONE OF THE ONLY THINGS DEVS CARE ABOUT

[mortal epoch]

I still dont get whats bad about the patch

[pallid vortex]

Big part, of the game for me was, stomping lobbies because of time consumed on getting better gear, but now 3rd parties are impossible to survive as everyone is more equal and all the rat strategies are even better.

[quartz jetty]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🅾️ 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭 6️⃣ 8️⃣

[glacial sphinx]

Nah its toxic and doesnt help them long term, they gotten enough feedback about this patch just wait and see what the next one does or take a break if you can't

[sullen gulch]

So in short form, i cant gear check anymore and have to think about when and how to take a fight wäääh wäähh cry cry

[hasty flare]

nope, review bomb this shit into the ground immediately, its the only thing they care about, it will effect change --- play silly games win silly prizzes, enjoy the review bomb

[glacial sphinx]

I won't be but I can't stop you from behaving like a toddler of course

[hasty flare]

well you took the 1 minute of you day to care and respond so, congrats

[sullen gulch]

dude touch some grass

[hasty flare]

played 18 holes yesterday lmao, spent 8 hours golfing and bbq'ing yestreday to come home to shit patch, stay mad

[sullen gulch]

bro over here reacting like this affects his whole life

[pallid vortex]

yeha the rats, have it easier now no one can go around pvping without knowing they will die to 3rd party

[quartz jetty]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🅾️ 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭 6️⃣ 8️⃣

[hot sky]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/590221/remove-the-door-knocking-sounds-from-the-haunted-harvest-lobby

REMOVE THE DOOR KNOCKING SOUNDS FROM LOBBY AMBIENCE PLEASE

[crude hill]

this is not a government this is a game that doesn't change your life

[crude hill]

I m also from playtest and i have been active in the community since the beginning. But i m not impulsive and visceral. The destitution of SDF is a disgusting petition.

[indigo kindle]

I mean he's sinking his own ship. People are pissed about it.. we liked this ship.. a lot. Just hopeful after he makes these changes, a decent game company runs with what this game was supposed to be. That's the problem though, iron mace was the perfect dev team for this as they weren't overly greedy with microtransactions and cared about the games health. Now we all just get this stinky "vision" sdf has and he will completely ruin the game. It took me about 24 hours, but I accept it now and am just moving on. (Not playing DaD anymore as theres no content there) I'm super sad about it though and there will never be another game as good as dark and darker used to be.

[meager jasper]

It's not okay to wish someone to be out of a job, but they need to revert this decision and stop trying to force the game to be something it isn't if they're going to recover any good will.

And while they're at it they need to commit publicly to stopping these ridiculous, repeated, dramatic balance changes. This may be the worst they've ever done this, but it's not the first time.

[crude hill]

They are the same devs and Terrence have always respected SDF as lead designer so stop talking about a conflict that doesn't exist. Criticize the hole dev team at one because it is the same ship of always.

[meager jasper]

They're obsessed with changing the minutia of the game when they should be making new content for it. Layers for goblin caves. The last level of the ice dungeon. Their gem system (which if it's going to replace random modifiers, it needs to be in the game at the moment that happens). Wands. Sorcerer. On and on on things they've promised to do but are completely fumbling because they're focused on making completely dumb balance changes.

[meager jasper]

This isn't true they've literally said they were at odds with SDF in q&as before and were pulling the game in two different directions.

The resolution was at the time that they just focused on different parts of the game, from what I recall, with SDF focusing on arena at the time as his personal project. (And a very failed one at that, tbh)

[crude hill]

I know but 2 different visions means nothing. In all game development there are multiple opinions but at the end you follow your leader without hesitate.

[meager jasper]

That literally isn't what's happening though. They've said they've had conflicts.

Clearly they respect each other as people but have completely at odds visions, and if this is SDF's expression of vision then I have serious problems with it as well, I fully understand.

And keep in mind this is a team motivated to leave their job to make the game of their dreams. This is not the type of team that I'd expect to be dogmatically loyal. If they feel that's threatened.

[crude hill]

Link me the message or the source, because it is not what i know.

[meager jasper]

They said this in one of the many onepeg Q&As. Do your own homework.

Terrance specifically.

[pseudo minnow]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/590227/more-reasonable-fix-for-patch-69 👀

[crude hill]

I have seen last Terrence, Graysun and SDF q&a but what you are saying doesn't match what i know

[meager jasper]

shrugs

I'll be blunt, i'm not trawling through a few hours of footage for anyone's benefit.

[crude hill]

So it is in a onepeg and Terrence video? i will watch it

[meager jasper]

Right or wrong. It doesn't matter that much to me.

I only recall it was a onepeg interview.

[quartz jetty]

Best suggestion yet:
🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🅾️ 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭 6️⃣ 8️⃣

[high prairie]

unpopular opinion but this patch is a step in the right direction, minus the overtuned barb : )

[meager jasper]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBNFLwPTn4I

This perfectly articulated my entire stance on this patch and SDF's "vision" right now. I didn't actually think SDF should step down, but honestly, I'm convinced. He should take another role because his overall design philosophy just isn't good at any level.

[trim moss]

@high prairieyour take is so bad your hair went poof

[pseudo minnow]

I think that a less severe implementation of the patch would've been good but that this is stupid.

like the take was that gear was too impact-full as poor was 1 stat point and gold was 6 stat points with linear scaling; if instead of making all gear the same; they had buffed the baseline by 3x-6x, then the impact of the same 6 stat points would only be 100-200% buff instead of the 500-600% buff

[meager jasper]

The thing is I don't think SDF is competent. I've been here since PT4, and the only time I've ever been impressed by them was the patches this video refers to that coincided with the release on Steam.

The rest of the time they've doubled down on bad decisions constantly.

They don't have what it takes to make good design decisions if they're like this 95% of the time.

[pseudo minnow]

I agree but people are tunnel visioning on the patch and not the idea, the idea in essence is fine but the excicution was horrible and in part due to SDF

[meager jasper]

I don't agree with the idea of the patch. The idea of reducing TTK and levelling out gear isn't a good one.

The game is an extraction looter. Period. It should have gear disparity, that's the point.

[pseudo minnow]

well I also don't like the TTK but something like this solution would preserve the scaling while keeping skill based PVP

[meager jasper]

And the game is also a melee-focused game. TTK must be low in melee to allow for skirmishing and engagement tactics.

SDF wants a ranged meta, they've said so before. They literally want a twitch-reflex extraction shooter looter. And that is total poison as an idea for DaD, in my humble opinion.

[high meadow]

Suggestion: allow refunds with no time limit, I want my money back so I can buy a game the devs aren't trying to destroy

[dense arch]

Where was that said? I'd love to read that, if this is true I guess I can see where this is going

[pseudo minnow]

thats insane, how do they expect a ranged meta when only ~4 classes have good range?

[meager jasper]

Again these statements come from longform Q&As they've done prior. They've said before while everyone was complaining about ranged meta that they actually like it.

[dense arch]

I'd love to have my red shards I bought from last patch... I take it back, don't necessarily want to support such a random change in the center of a "Season"

[meager jasper]

They have this weird blinkered view of their own game, and it's totally at odds with what makes DaD valuable and unique.

[crude hill]

I like barb being broken, not just only because now feels really like the glass cannon it should be. But also because it will force people to play in groups since it is the only way to counter them. No more clerics having any chance to play solos.

[past widget]

How about you dont put the visitor merchant like jack in the middle of the list and change where they are put them at the bottom. Or just combine the banker and collector

[vestal cloud]

dear ironmace if your gonna remove 15 hp from everyone please consider that animal forms now are literally 1 shot

[royal plinth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBNFLwPTn4I 100% all the way correct right all round

[prisma shadow]

You know, many of this game’s balancing issues would be solved if they actually added Skill expression in the form of blocking and counter attacking. You know, like in actual Melee COMBAT. But what do I know?

Press W and Left Click and let the gear do the work for you I guess.

You would get more prolonged fights and more opportunities to outwit your opponent instead of it becoming a kite fest with hitting someone and then backing away

[hasty flare]

nah TTK at 1-2hits is definitely best way to highlight skill expression

[crude hill]

There is skill expression in non mechanical aspects. So i disagree.

[prisma shadow]

?

[azure anvil]

can we nerf barb? i don't dislike the patch but overall HP nerf plus barb buff is rancid imho

[prisma shadow]

You know, many of this game’s balancing issues would be solved if they actually added Skill expression in the form of blocking and counter attacking. You know, like in actual Melee COMBAT. But what do I know?

Press W and Left Click and let the gear do the work for you I guess.

You would get more prolonged fights and more opportunities to outwit your opponent instead of it becoming a kite fest with hitting someone and then backing away

[vestal cloud]

they are absolutley not cooking with this new patch

[summer epoch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBNFLwPTn4I

[modern quest]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🇭 🇪 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭

[crude hill]

What i m saying is that i don't want to have always a mechanical way to go out of any problem.

I think there should be fights you can't win, no matters how good you are.

[prisma shadow]

Uh yeah I don’t know if I agree on that one

[quartz jetty]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🅾️ 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭 6️⃣ 8️⃣

[hasty flare]

Well RECENT REVIEWS on steam are officially at the 50% mark, just need a few more to put it to majority negative --- REVIEW THE GAME ON STEAM - TELL THE DEVS WHAT YOU THINK OF THEIR NEW ""VISION""

[daring trail]

IMO everyone is over-reacting tbh
Its kinda nice not getting gear checked constantly, this patch is in no way perfect, but its also not crucify the devs and uninstall the game bad.

There should be a difference between squire and epic gear, instead of the difference being 1 stat to 5 stat, somewhere inbetween like 2 stat to 4 stat. same with armor/MR, and at minimum 1 weapon damage between rarities.

definitely not perfect, but i really think most complaining are just wayyyy too use to gear checking ppl and letting their gold play the game for them.

plus the barb changes actually make no sense, class was already good they didnt need a massive buff

[golden prism]

Seems like it's not a popular opinion but I like the new gear changes they made

[hasty flare]

REVIEW THE GAME ON STEAM - TELL THE DEVS WHAT YOU THINK OF THEIR NEW ""VISION""

[crude hill]

@daring trail We don't usually coincide in many opinions about dark and darker but for this one i will agree with you.

Call for calm is always healthy. For now.

[daring trail]

right now kind of reminds me of PT4, back when they didnt have white stats on gear, and it was only armor/mr and random roll differences.
it feels decent, but getting 5 str on white gear is a little nutty and should be calmed down a bit, and i've also had white weapons that have higher weapon damage than purple weapons- that just doesnt make sense lol

definitely not perfect, but y'all need to chill

[crude hill]

I think a very representative fact about what is happening in discord with this collective rage is that i mostly see new names. And most of the old ones i see are not being visceral.

At least in this channel.

[quartz jetty]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🅾️ 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭 6️⃣ 8️⃣

[real trellis]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/590242/flatten-the-distribution-of-stats-but-make-rarity-mean-something

[hasty flare]

49% recent steam reviews are positive, send it lower boys send it lower --- REVIEW THE GAME ON STEAM, TELL THE DEVS WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THIS 'NEW VISION'

[tender warren]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🅾️ 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭 6️⃣ 8️⃣

[nova vale]

@keen onyx @hidden sierra @dawn grotto since artifactics were introduced to other bosses, could you guys introduce higher % based on boss difficulty? because it's 1 in a 1000 for cyclops, troll, spectral knight and banshee doesnt sit right. Because spectral knight and banshee are way more difficult on HR and require hours of learning, i suggest 1 in 200 for them, 1 in 1000 for cyclops and troll. 1 in 66 for wyvern is fair, 1 in 33 for inferno is also fair, so make it fair for those bosses as well.

[quartz jetty]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🅾️ 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭 6️⃣ 8️⃣

[vestal cloud]

ironmace you ACTUASLLYU SUCK SO BAD

[hollow torrent]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🇭 🇪 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭

Looting it's now nearly pointless

👏

[coarse kraken]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/590232/terrence-back-as-solo-head-game-design-developer

[hazy swan]

Why is the anti-cheating person not responding to my message

[grim wraith]

OK so what we have here is a full loot extraction dungeon crawler game where the loot is 90% identical to the gear we get from the squire. yes, there's a slight difference in the random rolls which we are told will likely be removed next wipe. what point is there in having a pretty yellow band behind the name of our gear? Why would I go to inferno and fight boring slog-fest fights and learn to dance the dance of no hit taken while fighting the boss? If I pull golden gear it has the same stats I get from squire for no effort. if I pull a coin chest I will have more room to store gold that I can use to buy nothing of value because there is nothing that is worth anything. In short if gear doesn't matter the only thing left is the thrill of fighting live players. ok that can be fun, but now there's a class that is faster than everyone by far, does more damage than anyone, has more HP than everyone, more magic resist, it ignores what little armor rating I can build up, ignores knockback from rangers. there is no class in the game that can beat a barbarian holding the W key and raging. we all have so little HP the fights are over before I can enjoy them. Barbs oneshot everyone. just look at the kill feed barbs are wiping the lobbies. barbs are not fun to fight against. there are only two paths to win in PVP: 1 play barbarian, 2 play ranged and stay far away from the enemy (remember barbs are the fastest thing out there). oh ok there is a 3rd way to win: catch them in a hunting trap.

Please, make gear important again
Please make all the classes matter again

there is no point in collecting ingredients, because nothing you craft is worth the effort of crafting it. no point in fighting bosses, not even any point in doing the quests since they reward me with gear I don't want, gold I don't need and crafting that doesn't matter. What am I meant to do in this game? where is the game? what are my goals and why do I want to achieve them? I don't see any.

[hasty flare]

+1300 negative reviews since patch release, keep them coming boys, let the devs know how you feel about the new patch - devs want feedback, lets give it to them ------ LEAVE A STEAM REVIEW LET THE DEVS KNOW HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT THIS PATCH GIVE THEM FEEDBACK ON STEAM REVIEW

[vestal cloud]

its so fun getting 2 shot by a ranger its soooooo fun wow im having so much fun in this game ironmace has done such a great job reducing everyones health by 15 points so that barbarians can 1 shot people wow they really have out done themselves with this patch im sure new players are gonna love loading into there first game and dying in 1 too 2 hits

[marble root]

Re-introduce gear scaling with rarity but to a smaller degree than pre-hotfix #69 e.g. Poor -> Common is +1 base stats (armor, weapon damage, attribute bonus, etc), Common -> Uncommon is +1 random roll, Uncommon -> Rare is +1 base stats, etc.

[tawdry kite]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🅾️ 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭 6️⃣ 8️⃣

[pseudo minnow]

Would love some feedback on this idea I posted to the suggestion fourms:
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/590227/more-reasonable-fix-for-patch-69

[clever anvil]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🅾️ 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭 6️⃣ 8️⃣

[vestal cloud]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🅾️ 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭 6️⃣ 8️⃣

how bout we revert the hp change and nerf barb cause getting one shot does not feel good for anyone

i literally buiilt vigor and max health just now on my wiz so i dont get 1 shot and guess what happened.... i still got 1 sot by a barb lol

these devs are delulu

[twin prism]

Played the game for 3000 hours , it has never been this bad , looting feels pointless , pvp pointless ,nothing is fun anymore ,even arena is boring everyone one shots everyone , Terrence take the wheel stf will run this game into the ground.

Even downloaded league of legends after 2 years of not playing it

[prisma shadow]

Cry about it

[twin prism]

If u think gear check-in is a problem u are just not good at the game , a decent player can get an almost bis out kit in 1-2 hours of playing starting from nothing

[steep jacinth]

Just useless to play the game tbh, everyone is just running squire and no point in looting since squire easily beats you

[rugged summit]

So you think the whole point of the game is get gear that makes you unkillable to people without that gear?

That's never been the point of this game

[daring trail]

if you didnt think gear check was a problem, chances are you let your gold/gear play the game for you 🤷‍♂️

[gleaming adder]

At least we could’ve been matched with people with close enough gear scores, now everyone’s in squire gear destroying the poor guy who didn’t see the patch and brought in legendaries

I think gear diff’ing was a problem yes - but removing gear is not the right answer - making this game a battle Royale

[gleaming fog]

This patch is unfortunate. I feel like you built a looter extractor and just ruined the high points of looting. I’m hardly picking anything up in the dungeons now cause why would I when I can outplay people in risk free squire gear.

[twin prism]

Definitely not , i usually play 1-2 k kits , every once in a while I would spend 5-6k . I prob kill more people in cheaper gear because i get overconfident with good gear and loose it within 2-3 runs. I'm not gonna argue with you u are definitely new if u think u are losing fights only because of gear dif

[granite plinth]

This

[clever idol]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🇭 🇪 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭

[daring trail]

its ok to be wrong bud, you are right though we shouldnt have this convo because you cannot see reality

[rugged summit]

look im not saying this as an insult. But there is actual human pshycology at play here. The dopamine hit we all get when finding nice items is very real. It's why looting games are so popular.

Whats happening right now, is your brain is used to it, but now isn't getting it because the loot isnt AS good as it was. By next week you brain will adjust to the new power window that loot exists in.

It's not the first time this kind of thing has happened in this game.

SDF making this change Mid-wipe was a bone-head move though.

[rugged summit]

The only reason you feel this way is because 2 days ago you were getting dope gear, and now it feels underwhelming. Take a break for a few days, it wont feel that way anymore.

[gleaming fog]

I’ve given it a fair shake. Patch still saddens me.

[gleaming adder]

Yeah I get where you’re coming from, tbh I still get excited when getting any lvl of loot but it all kinda crashes down when I get two tapped by a barbarian running at Mach 10 in squire loot

But yeah I see your point, this is like my first message on this topic just cause I feel like I don’t need to argue with any of y’all - everyone in here is just wanting to have fun with a video game

I’ll give it a few days and you might be right, either way have a nice day man

[rugged summit]

Im not even joking you need a few days for you brain to readjust for the dopamine hit.

[rugged summit]

Barbs are cracked right now. They obviously though the gear changes were going to hurt the class really bad, so they over-corrected. Barb will get dialed back in short-order.

remember guys... They realease a patch like every 10 day MAX

[reef ocean]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🇭 🇪 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭

[slim flint]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🇭 🇪 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭

[steep jacinth]

No but whats the point of the game if your gear doesnt matter? I liked when you could do different builds, stacking hp, resoursfullness/regint, Armorpen/ Strenght/ agility. Just at this point the differense in gear is so big that there is literally no point spending over 500 gold for a kit since squire is the same as all other rarities. In my honest opinon it was nice when you were able to get actually good stuff and pvping was also rewarding. Also if you decide to gear up. you do one missplay and you will die. Its just not worth it

[clever idol]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🇭 🇪 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭

[rugged summit]

Except you can try different build much more easily now. The accessiblity just went through the roof. being able to run wizard with 10 spells, and Pell overload is crazy awesome.

[steep jacinth]

but it wont be any as good :D Like before I just as easily could try different builds. But it seems we agree on this. I really dont think my mind is to be changed abt this. I liked the part of the game where I could stack whatever I want and since I am not that good of a player I die alot and most times stuff dont work. I grinded my ass off farming bosses and gathering gold so I can actually make a bissed out kit, just now Its useless. my bissed out ranger kit gets chased down by squire barbarian

So I would lose everything to literally nothing

[karmic crag]

🇺🇸 🇲 🅰️ 🇰 🇪 🇩 🅰️ 🇩 🇬 🇷 🇪 🅰️ 🇹 🅰️ 🇬 🅰️ 🇮 🇳 🇰🇷

[errant path]

Ironmace = taco bell

Add things to the game? No just rearrange tortilla meat and cheese 9 million ways.

Everyone likes X Menu item take away X menu item...

[hollow torrent]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🇭 🇪 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭

[honest lance]

A list of changes I had in mind to balance the game before the gear patch, im too depressed about that rn so can someone rate my suggestions instead?
Druids shape shift gains charges similar to rangers back step
Warlock healing functions like physical healing. Add a mastery perk for demon pact similar to druids and for the love of God buff/rework dark offering.
Rangers bear traps made an ability like rogues caltrops. Recharges at campfire. Lower base kit str and bow innate armor pen. Also all equipment in the game has projectile protection.
Wizard casting times lengthened but Ms penalty for casting lowered
Cleric Maybe buff base str and lower amount of spell charges on healing abilities.
Rogues caltrops and smoke pots can be recharges at a campfire. lower armor pen.
Barbarian base agi lowered.
Bards music buffs either lowered slightly or lowered drastically and made scalable with a stat.

[ashen canyon]

I think gear should still be rewarding, the way it is now, the modifiers don’t do enough to differentiate the gear from squire, honestly with the loot rate changed from before gear baseline, that was good enough if I’m being honest, I was going in and getting epics and legendary in Normals, and they still meant something, now it’s oooh a legendary what nail clippings of perks does it add. Oh nothing? Not ever worth picking up? Got it. Legendary gear should always be worth picking up, hell now I can kill someone with legendary gear in just squire gear, that’s ridiculous levels of imbalance. I get wanting to make it easier for new people to get into, I don’t get making everything worth nothing.

[rugged summit]

Gear still matters.

Leather Leggings: Common
Armor Rating 23
MS -4
Will 5

Leather Leggins : Rare
Armor Rating 23
MS -4
Will 5
+2 Vigor
+3.5% buff duration

Which of these pieces of gear is better?

[ashen canyon]

Minutely the rare one, that’s the problem. I only have 2 additionally health, roughly and a 3.5 additional buff duration. The issue lies in the fact that any class could run up on me still and take me out just as easily as I had the common one rather than the rare one. @rugged summit

[gleaming fog]

The issue is that a rare one with those rolls is the same as a unique one with those two rolls. Big lame.

[ashen canyon]

The two health via vigor isn’t going to make a difference to the 40+ damage I’m taking, and the buff duration won’t make a difference either. They essentially made it so that all gear is the same despite the rarity one.

You can make poor common and uncommon the same, rare and epic the same and then legendary and unique the same

[rugged summit]

The unique and legendary items should definintely get a SLIGHT buff in comparisions to the Epic and below tiers. I agree.

[indigo kindle]

This. People didn't want to take the time to understand each character and their strength's/weaknesses. If they did, then they would understand the appeal of gear making a difference in builds. The way it is now, anything above an epic is always going to be useless. (Not useless but only 3 rolls will ever matter on any piece of gear)

[hasty flare]

Closing in on 1500 negative steam reviews since patch dropped, KEEP THEM COMING BOYS, ITS GONNA BE OVER 10% OF CONCURRENT PLAYERS GIVING NEGATIVE REVIEWS SOON LMFAOOOooooooooo 10/10 PATCH GJ DEVS

[rugged summit]

Not just as easily, you have a slight advantage. if you both play equally, you win. If they play slightly better, they win. That's a good thing.

[ashen canyon]

No the two health difference doesn’t give you any advantage at all.

[rugged summit]

You guys are literally trying to kill the game. You're toxic man.

[ashen canyon]

If you have 120 hp, and they have 110, but the weapon does 40 damage on a hit to the head, it doesn’t matter if your the 110 or the 120 you still die in three hits

[rugged summit]

fighter A: 110 HP Vs Fighter B: 112 HP........

[hasty flare]

ooooo is wittle dev upset about players voicing their opinion via game reviews waaaaaahhhhhhhh waahhhhh waahhhhhh

[ashen canyon]

110 vs 112 still dies in three hits

[rugged summit]

Depends where the hits land. I've won fights with less than 5 HP left.

[polar crescent]

idk the barb that hit me in the head for 180 didnt care that i had gear or not

[ashen canyon]

So have I, even before the gear baseline.

[rugged summit]

Barbs are just busted. Not disagreeing.

[ashen canyon]

Gear should have a difference stat wise, I don’t mind if they don’t ALL have a difference

[polar crescent]

oh and the crossbows hitting in the head for over 100, and then of course the insert X class that 2 hits you. If everyone does max damage off rip and TTK being 2 hits its not fun

[ashen canyon]

But tell me what is the difference between poor and common gear as things stand now?

[rugged summit]

you guys are too short sighted man. As if the game is going to stay exactly like this. go read the Dev comments on the last 5 patches. SDF lays out a VERY clear plan of what he's doing. And it makes complete sense.

[rugged summit]

Right now.. non. which i assume will lead to poor gear being removed. always found the presence of both of them kind of silly.

[hasty flare]

nah, devs basically urinated in peoples faces that spent more than 50 hours grinding this season for invetories full of gold/loot

[ashen canyon]

I didn’t, because it was the initial reason for doing quests to get better starting gears.

[polar crescent]

this patch is dog shit it doesnt matter if in 15 patches we will have something meh to play the gameplay loop right now is terrible

[rugged summit]

This is valid criticism. They nuked everyone's stash mid-wipe... don't know why they didn't wait till next wipe to do this, but here we are.

[hasty flare]

right so, express your opinion via the only avenue that player haves - steam reviews - if we spam them with legit 5k steam reviews, they will panic and revert because it will cause irrovacble damage to the future of the game -- SIMPLE AS THAT

[rugged summit]

Gameplay loop feeel amazing right now. You're just upset about the kits you already assembled (completely understandable btw. My Arean kit got asbolutely destroyed.)

[hasty flare]

you can call it toxic or cringe or shortsighted or w/e but you know what else you can call it? EFFECTIVE - bottom line

[polar crescent]

no its not good at all, whats the gameplay loops right now. run in and just run at people. no one is looting, everyone ive killed in both high roller and normals just had squire gear on

[ashen canyon]

The loot drop chances increasing was good enough to keep people from having to sink in hours to be able to do anything. Changing gear base stats to all the same is dumb. The random roll modifiers mean little to nothing at all unless you stack the same one multiple times.

[rugged summit]

being upset about the gear changes, because it ruined you progress mid-season, and the gear changing being overall bad are not the same thing.

[hasty flare]

Closing in on 1500 negative steam reviews since patch dropped, ITS GONNA BE OVER 10% OF CONCURRENT PLAYERS GIVING NEGATIVE REVIEWS SOON LMFAOOOooooooooo

[rugged summit]

that will change within the next week though. right now everyone is yoloing because of the economic impact this change had. they've got stashes that used to be worth 100k worth 10k now. so they just YOLO every game. AGAIN... makign this change mid-wipe is the reason it's not well receieved.

[ashen canyon]

I get wanting to make it a more new player friendly game, that’s fine, love the idea. Making it equal grounds with all loot? No that’s awful and horrible.

Make a lobby where all you can go in with is squire loot, no potions nothing bought from anyone, loot up while in the game, there’s your new player friendly mode

[indigo kindle]

People that keep trolling by saying gear is still valuable completely miss the point. The game was made more new player friendly after patch 68. Legendary gear was rampant and it was FUN. Now, after#69, you can get uniques, legendary gear, etc all day but 99% of it doesn't matter at all. It's going to take even more grinding now to piece together decent kits and the impact of the gear is still so little that it's like.. why bother? That quickly turns into why bother playing at all.

[ashen canyon]

This 100% all they did was change it so looting for bis gear was the only way to get an advantage. Everything else is worthless at best

[polar crescent]

the gameplay loop that made it fun was the fact that you could lose the good gear now its just like well my gear is mostly bis anyway for fighting so why bother grinding at all for it

[ashen canyon]

Mid wipe or not, no one would be happy with the changes I don’t think you understand what happened, maybe you do and you enjoy running around with squire gear being able to kill someone decked out in legendary or unique gear. Literally before it was squire gear vs legendary gear, now it’s squire gear vs squire+. If it’s going to change within the week why put this out on the public realm and not a test realm to see how it would be received? You can alter a game that’s fine, but drastic changes with no preview is ridiculous and disgusting.

[quartz jetty]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🅾️ 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭 6️⃣ 8️⃣

[faint belfry]

The last patch

[ashen canyon]

Maybe source it so the same modifier could be rolled multiple times? Something that actually gives an advantage rather than this garbage loot system now. If my gear is legendary a guy in squire gear shouldn’t have a chance in hell taking me down. Period.

[topaz meadow]

What if instead of having 7 resourcefulness, barbs had 7 dex? 👹

[indigo kindle]

Player count is down another 800 in the last 30 minutes 1.8k in the last hour

[karmic crag]

At that point just remove all the weapons from every other class, have them spawn into the game bounded and cheeks up so barbs can whack a mole

[faint belfry]

I like the patch, the fights are now skill based, rolls are supposed to matter more than the quality of gear, in all of other games u pay for the rolls and everyone has good gear.

The other option would be to make a lot of gearscore pools.

[hasty flare]

Logout of the game and leave a steam review - let the dev's know how you feel about the new patch - make this place a ghost town, stop spamming, stop playing, GHOST TOWN

[quartz jetty]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🅾️ 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭 6️⃣ 8️⃣

[vestal cloud]

it feels so nice having full hp then geting 1 shot by a barb lol

[ashen canyon]

Even if you’re in legendary gear isn’t it amazing?

[jolly leaf]

Right?

[serene snow]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/590266/three-realms-concept

[karmic crag]

iron hammer are you seriously…

…..who is does a nerf are to loot? you saying somebody is go the dungeons and is chose to nerf a loot?

many nerfs. Hundreds. Infinite nerfs…And then you buff in a barb everywhere? This no notsense…

remove nerfed gear from you game. How many I die to a barb…. because they infinately come with axe, too quickly, many forever… stop this nosense. I am beg

[stiff pike]

how do you farm high roler ranks now? Killing players, bosses, minibosses or treasure?

[dusk pilot]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🅾️ 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭 6️⃣ 8️⃣

[dire viper]

Flat out, its time to upgrade the dungeons. Larger levels, more time in each level, and completely randomize the layouts. PVE needs to be harder and have more tricks, and you should have to clear your module before you can leave to the rest of the dungeon (anti-spawn rush). The dungeon as a whole has become a known variable, and it's the root cause of a lot of anti-fun mechanics. This is an even bolder statement, but the dungeon should be 6x6 (not 5x5) and outer ring has PVP disabled with easier mobs and loot, and the center 3x3 is extrordinarly difficult compared to the modules around it. It would give more player freedom to control the pace/intensity of their runs.

[jolly leaf]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/576260/improvement-to-the-new-matchmaking-system-and-map-rotation
Posting this suggestions about Matchmaking and map rotation because it's a really good idea and I don't see downside to it
(Upvote if you like it )

[clever idol]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🅾️ 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭 6️⃣ 8️⃣

[gentle mica]

Can we improve the war hammer's animation a little bit?
As of now the war hammer is not very good because you aren't utilizing the full length of the weapon because the animation features short brisk strokes.
I used a damage calculator and if you're striking someone with around 40% PDR you are doing pretty much the same damage as the flanged mace, but the flanged mace has less movespeed penalty when equipped and the animation is just easier to use so there is never really a point in using the war hammer!

[hollow torrent]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🅾️ 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭 6️⃣ 8️⃣

[quartz jetty]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🅾️ 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭 6️⃣ 8️⃣

[sharp ore]

Hello anyone i can talk to about a Ban Appeal? I played a month an a half or so ago fine, went away for work/training and got a bunch of verify email requests while i was gone but without email i figured no one could do anything so ignored. when i come back my account is banned. Any way to speed up process. I first appealed it oct 10th.

[faint onyx]

horrible terrible bad terrible bad idea. This gear system is AWFUL. Why even play the game at this point?

[pulsar trellis]

@dawn grotto @keen onyx It's hard-need to change the price for some skins like lobby skin or reconsider the in-game currency policy in general. Without regional prices it's too expensive to buy donate shards for some regions (at least on Steam) and only 5 free shards limit per season with a skin cost of 7 shards sounds like a joke.

In total we have - heavy grind free currency as in the most miserable donate MMORPG trash games, a limit on the amount of currency obtained and skins, which will not have enough money, even after a heavy grind.

Thank you for your attention.

For $20, FYI, you can buy a couple of games, meanwhile you can buy 10 shards for one skin lmao. Cursed future...

[faint onyx]

Are the devs actively trying to kill their player base and destroy DaD? What the hell are they doing this is insane...

[indigo kindle]

Yeah thats the problem with the game.. not the lack of rewarding content.

[jolly leaf]

I guess #discord-help or maybe @waxen iron

[pulsar trellis]

They are trying to find the best way to improve most aspects of the player experience and of course you can't do it without some global and weird changes, that's ok.

[karmic crag]

iron hammer are you seriously…

…..who is does a nerf are to loot? you saying somebody is go the dungeons and is chose to nerf a loot?

many nerfs. Hundreds. Infinite nerfs…And then you buff in a barb everywhere? This no notsense…

remove nerfed gear from you game. How many I die to a barb…. because they infinately come with axe, too quickly, many forever… stop this nosense. I am beg

[worn trench]

I don't understand how almost everything about this patch was an L, I can sorta understand the -15hp but everything else is so incredibly bad, getting oneshot by characters that you've hit directly with 3 fireballs or managed to hit with 4 throwing knives, 2 crossbow shots and a rapier stab is beyond ridiculous
Removing all the power from higher tier gear unless it rolls insanely well doesn't make the gear gap smaller but larger because the people with the insane rolls still get the insane rolls and the people without are heavily discouraged from looting because even if they do find that legendary if it rolls 2 or 3 things poorly or the wrong rolls it becomes worse than a blue or even green piece of gear while being immensely harder to find and survive with
And sure now a player with no gear can have a chance of killing that guy with a legendary kit but for what?
Nobody will run the good kits outside arena because there's no reason to when a squire kit is 90% as effective and now the gear diff is switched to who buys the best healing and shield pots rather than gear
The players that used to use the best will run the best potions and whatever else they can't fit in stash meanwhile the casuals finally get their first piece of legendary gear only to realise it's a downgrade from the green kit they bought in

[winter junco]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🇭 🇪 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭

[elfin onyx]

Can we milk the goblins yet?

[steel timber]

I put a suggestion in the d-and-d suggestions channel to Revert to Patch 68. Please go and upvote it!!!!

[topaz meadow]

Rough idea, but what if the extraction focus switched from good rolls on gear to crafting materials? Only way to get good rolls and to mint an item for recovery/arena is through crafting. Higher tier recipes require higher tier mats (norm vs hr) and maybe the socket enchantment gems we’re supposedly getting at some point would guarantee a roll in like a specific family of rolls (offense, defense, utility, etc…). Irrelevant rolls would be removed/reduced to not let crafting RNG you into a potential total waste of time.

Marketplace would likely shift towards the convenience of not having to farm certain mats, while players could still have reason to pvp to rob other players of their good gear and pve for uniques (bosses, unique mobs)

[karmic crag]

iron hammer are you seriously…

…..who is does a nerf are to loot? you saying somebody is go the dungeons and is chose to nerf a loot?

many nerfs. Hundreds. Infinite nerfs…And then you buff in a barb everywhere? This no notsense…

remove nerfed gear from you game. How many I die to a barb…. because they infinately come with axe, too quickly, many forever… stop this nosense. I am beg

[hasty flare]

STOP PLAYING THE GAME AND GO LEAVE A STEAM REVIEW - Let the dev's know how you feel about the new patch - make this place a ghost town, stop spamming, stop playing, GHOST TOWN

[left rampart]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🇭 🇪 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭

[dense wing]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🇭 🇪 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭

[harsh mulch]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🇭 🇪 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭

[rugged summit]

SDF said he want's to explore a socketing system, and a way to get the exact rolls you want. It's clear hes trying to make most gear "Meh" and REALLY good perfect rolled stuff you have to work for. Which brings me back to the good old days to be honest.

I think a lot of veteran players, the ones who probably haven't played in like 8 months are going to enjoy the hell out of the current gear state. As an anecdote, the 2 people who introduced me to this game at the beginning of PT2 haven't played in easily 6-10 months. I got them to hop on last night and today... they're having a blast.

over 100k people PURCHASED this game for at least $35usd when it wasn't even on steam. Through BlackSmith. Where did those players go? Why aren't they logging in? Well i remember what the top complain has always been in this game. GEAR DIFF. People grinding for the best gear, were soooo much stronger than everyone else, it was impossible to kill them regardless of how well you played.

They made white only lobbies for while, then they made gear score, and split the queues, all because some people would grind to make enough gold, that they could buy dominance over most other players. Unsurprisingly most people find this annoying frustrating, and unfair. So they stopped playing.

So sum this up. There aren't enough people who like the idea of being able to grind until they can buy invincibility. The game will die if it's designed around those people, clearly, there aren't enough of them.

They need the +100k people who wanted a more fair experience, and were begging for a game that allowed you to find/buy/grind for gear, that would give you a confident edge over other players. You should never be worried what another player is wearing, you should be looking at your own gear and saying:: Yeah im good....

[hazy swan]

hi，Why is the anti-cheating person not responding to my message

[topaz meadow]

I feel this, thanks for the response. I've been around since the very beginning and I'm definitely far from the best player, but I share your sentiments about those earlier experiences in the dungeon. I'm excited to see how this cleans up.

[rugged summit]

exactly. I understand there are serious issues with this patch.

• Legendries, and uniques should not be rolling lower base stats than their lower tier counterparts.
• Barbs are over-tuned (AGAIN LOL)
• AR should increase across tiers (Maybe like +1-2 per tier or something.)
• Making these changes Mid-Wipe was just straight NO CHILL. Sdf actually nuked everyone's stash that they had spent over a month grinding for. (I'm not happy about what was done to my arena set.)

[tribal belfry]

Roll back to last patch and nerf armor rating and magic resist each rarity by 5 or 10 so people can’t max out to 70 pdr or 60 mdr without spending a fortune but still make it so you can’t get additional and move speed bonus on boots so that people who decide to spend their gold on armor ratings they are slow the only issue with gear was the ability to stack procs and be fast that was the only bad thing after that only balance the game around trios as many have said before you can’t balance the game for solos or duos so if they are just focused on balancing one game mode and they can put more effort into content such as guilds and guild battle and lfgs and in game team chat not proximity chat and give me your opinion on this what if they added guilds and battle between almost like war in clash of clans whatever clan got more adventure points or kills for the week would win a reward and it would be split between everyone in the game at the end of the day this patch just made the “end game” gear not worth getting the randomness of the game is what made everyone keep playing from my experience the player count died when they stopped giving consistent content and qol changes when we got updates every week the game was at it’s best I understand it takes time even if we didn’t get a update I wish they would just communicate what their working on and if they are unsure make a poll for the community to decide what they want moving forward

Also side note they should bring back the random modules even on ruins they can use the old rooms from last ruins and mix it up anyway thanks for reading my copium

Oh and use the test server you pay for it so use it

[rain storm]

REMOVE WIZARD FIREBALL

[faint onyx]

Bro what have they done to this game.... IM are proper ruining DaD. Its a 25min game, good pvp, reactive fps looter extractor. Too many changes, mid seasons, too much too soon and not really executed well... But brilliant ideas, just dont badly.

[lapis saffron]

Complete combat overhaul. This combat is dated. Content creators love bringing up changes to other aspects of the game that will theoretically raise the skill ceiling but I never hear them bring up the combat in this game. It’s bad. It’s 2024 and we don’t have directional combat? Why is every weapon locked into a cheesy combo? Mordhau players might cringe, but this game has something mordhau doesn’t. An action speed stat. YES there are some weapons in DaD that inherently swing faster than others HOWEVER it’s largely affected by action speed. And maybe unlike mordhau ironmace shouldn’t add feints (I could go either way with this but we all know spam feinting is quite frustrating lol) And if ALMOST every weapon in this game could parry, riposte, collide with other weapons, morph swing into stab etc…it WILL raise the skill ceiling of melee combat (The cheesy bs we have with longsword right now does not count) to the point where, imo, if you die you will know without a shadow of a doubt it was a skill issue. Its either that or melee combat never grows outside of out dps’ing and spacing, which has been since the playtest days. I would argue a change like this would have more of an affect on the game for MELEE combat, than the % balance changes they seem to make every patch between the different classes. To date, these changes seem to do nothing but frustrate people. A change like this would add a significant learning curve to the game (play some mordhau you get used to it, it’s not that bad lbs), however it would also alleviate some of the damage done to other classes in ironmace class balance patches.

[somber elk]

IRON MACE REMOVE RARITY OF ITEMS AND GIVE US NEW SYSTEM NOT MODIFICATION

NEW SYSTEM PVE IS SO BADDDDDDD PVP IS SO GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD

[somber elk]

IRONMACE WHY UR LAZY DEVELOP NEW THINGS BETTER THAN MODIFICATION

NEW PERKS NEW TALENTS NEW CLASS NEW MAP NEW ITEMS NEW SYSTEM DONT MODIFED ONLYYYYYY

I QUIT DARK AND DARKER UNTIL YOU REMOVE LANTER

[gleaming adder]

dude be as upset as you want but you needa chill out a lil bit

[somber elk]

ok i closed cap

[gleaming adder]

good shit brother

[reef kindle]

Game unplayable unfun talking as a barb main pls return back to 68 patch sdf is sleeping

[somber elk]

IRONMACE NEXT PATCH WE REMOVED RARITY OF ITEMS AND WILL DEVELOP NEW SYSTEM SEE YOU SOON HOPE YOU ALL COOKED AND BEING COOKED BY BARBS AND RANGERS

🇰 🇪 🇪 🇵 🇹 🇭 🇪 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭‼️ JUST REMOVE RARITY OF ITEMS AND MAKE RELICS TO OPEN SLOT EASY AND MORE RELAXED

[twin prism]

Probably are ,SDF might be paid by nexon to destroy their competition

[pallid vortex]

How has there not happened a announcment yet? the game is so boring right now

[limber fiber]

🇼 💬🇵 🇦 🇹 🇨 🇭 💬 🇼 🇻 🇮 🇸 🇮 🇴 🇳 🇸 🇩 🇫🔥 🔥🇬 🇴 🇦 🇹🔥

[peak lantern]

start giving people option of refund at this point

[shrewd cape]

repost cause general chat is unreadable:

TTK would be good if you didn't make move speed as the best stats of this game... TTK were long cause of those class that can run away all over the map... In squire gear it was good af just have to reduce move speed on some classes cause they clearly abused with that even if I understand, they don't have the choice to run ; but what if they have a skill as fighter has ? Skill that increase the move speed instead of raw move speed bonus ? It would reduce the TTK and make fight more skilled (without biased all the game points). Rogue, Druid, warlock and ranger had to learn how to parry/dodge other classes instead of running away.

Why you don't add a parry system on the spear too ? It could be a great idea. Enrich weapons movement instead of class abilities... Why you don't add some feint, or some poison pots (for rogue, they could put poison on their dagger, and in this case you reduce their damage to make a poison class instead of a moskito frustrator one...)

Why you don't add a delay on the druid's rat form to avoid spamming rat and make fight more fair regarding the possibility to skip a fight ? They could have more thought about how they should use the rat instead of "My HP is low=rat".

If everyone get the same move speed at starts and have a skill to up this move speed such as a "Sprint" capacity (with a different amount of speed regarding the class) it would reduce the TTK for sure and make the fight more skilled ! Then for gear you just have to base them on squire gear instead of legendary => game difficulty would be better, just legendary have 4 random stats more than the squire gear would make the game more skilled. But if you invert, you just waste the game ( Everyone got overtuned stats, why it's fun ? why it should be more skilled ?)

Please just read this instead of ignore @dawn grotto @keen onyx

[somber elk]

🇰 🇪 🇪 🇵 🇹 🇭 🇪 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭‼️ JUST REMOVE RARITY OF ITEMS AND MAKE RELICS TO OPEN SLOTS EASY AND MORE RELAXED

[shrewd cape]

Why even when we make a constructive feedback you never answer @dawn grotto @keen onyx ? Is that the feeling of overpower ?

[clever anvil]

They think we haven't play the game yet

[shrewd cape]

I've made like 3 or 4 constructive feedbacks and never get your words on that. With a lot of open question that remains with no answer, they are not retorical, you can answer on that at least to understand your points and make more constructive feedbacks to find a solution to your issue. Don't put your head into the ground like nothing happens following the Hotfix 69. You can see your players complaining all day long (old and new players) you see on youtube and other media the disappointment feeling regarding this Hotfix. So now it's time to see what you could do to resolve the situation.

You've built a player base, even if there's still some player on the game, if it keep decreasing each days, one day you'll have no more player and you'll be happy to see no complain anymore... But your game will go in trash and you guys just have to go back to industry such as Nexon (not Nexon in particular but a similar one, cause Nexon will not take you back since you go to the court)

[shrewd cape]

How can we build a constructive feedback if we didn't tested it before ? And why should we put that much effort to tell them that this Hotfix was a really bad thing ?

[lethal zodiac]

Actual Feedback: Lowering TTK is not what the community wants, that muchj was clear when the health was added to each class before, further more there was an increase in the damage of "base kit" and removed the progression:
Possible solutions for the problems the game has without a full reversal of patch:

• Give the health back the higher TTK is fun, it allows for counterplay to happen when a player cant finish a kill and they get away. This was fun for both parties imo, chasing a kill and outmaneuvering your possible killer...
  -Add better feedback to damage: When below 25% or 15% the character actually starts making some sort of noise(example: in Tarkov when you get your stomach blown out you start breathing heavily) a note can be taken from this as this meant enemy is in Critical health, this makes it so that its not only harder to get away but provides an incentive for the chaser to try to finish off the kill and risk it by chasing
  -Work on actual balance so that 1 shot weapons are not a thing and if they are they need a heavy cost/Risk like being really slow to pull back up for an attack, or increased reload/equip timecoughWindlass weapon swapcough , Bardiche for example could have a longer swing down, same for halberd and so on
  -Have 2 levels of gear rarity trash to blue and purple to unique so that finding rarer loot is actually exiting
  -Rework where certain modifiers go: Action speed shuld be exclusive to Gloves and weapons/jewelry, HP should be a chest/head/legs exclusive, FLAT Stats Dex,Vig,Str etc should be a jewelry luxury
  -You shouldnt be able to overstack certain stats (dmg,AS,HP) on every Class there is virtually no class identity other than skills if all you care about is stacking stats

-Perhaps the "Random rolls" in gear should be Skill related instead of flat stats:
Example the perks the characters have right now that are not so good but you would like to take if you could
-Warlock: casting doesnt take you below 1 HP
-Rogue Hide last longer
-Fighter Shieldbash can deflect projectiles?
-Druid healing gives phys power/armour
-Cleric can overheal(this is op and every HR healer takes it)
-Ranger Draw speed on gloves
etc

This would make for more interesting gameplay and combinations, gives a sense of progression on the game as you would work towards a "build", am not saying put 4 of these on each piece of gear but the stats being universally available on all gear is not great, and maybe adding a perk to 1 or 2 pieces of gear can make for more fun and interesting loot/progression

[clever anvil]

Because we are white mouse and will support IM without limits.

[shrewd cape]

Don't be blind, don't let your ego overpass @keen onyx @dawn grotto just read our feedback and take them into account OR answer our question fgs ; if we didn't like your game we were not still there. We just wait for a solution, reduce gear gap is clearly a good idea, but you didn't take it by the right way (it's a fact just take it and try to be better ) ; stop closing eyes and stay chill face to the situation just be serious and work on a solution.... Don't let a week pass, it's too dangerous for your game guys....

[royal plinth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBNFLwPTn4I in description @static turret

[shrewd cape]

That's not like that it works, let this stay more days and complain will stop cause people will be tired, people trust start to be damaging at a point it will no have backwards... I'm agree to be concillient and wait for something, let the community without any clue is the worst thing to do !

Early access mean build the game with the community, and build the community step by step

[red kite]

Patch has been fun but these changes defeat the purpose of the game. I'd like to see rarity affect base stats like before, but completely remove random modifiers and revert the rarity changes so there's a reason to grind again

[clever anvil]

They never considered trust to be important. Even if they manage to fix the game later, the impact on the community will still be profound and lasting.

[shrewd cape]

It would be better to let random modifier, and let the same base stat with the stat of the old squire gear. random modifier create economy and could add a light more advantage but not that much as it was before

[shrewd cape]

Even big company can learn and assume their errors by listenning the community, they came from one of the worst and they didn't learnt ? So they don't deserve to build a video game and have this community. Clearly If they didn't answer or just study the options they are clearly stupid... I hope they are not and I hope they can just take their hands off their eyes...

Time will do his effect, now it's fresh, but it will start to be withered... That will be my last suggestion, I don't want to pour more of my time to find a solution for THEIR company...

Why should I work free fee to help them ? It's because I liked DaD, but if they don't get it, it's not my problem. Just find something else to enjoy will be less effort and more interesting for me

[jovial anvil]

Change the games name to darknite battle Royale.

Remove the dungeon.

Make arena the only queue

Give barb a gun

Make more 15 dollar skins.

Remove loot.

Add CoD prestiges.

Add a battlepass.

Am I missing anything?

[coral glen]

I have a suggestion: Ironmace needs to provide a good corporate healthcare benefit to the employees. That way @keen onyx can visit an eye doctor, since his vision is trash

[floral sigil]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🇭 🇪 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭

[floral sigil]

YES

[quartz jetty]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🅾️ 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭 6️⃣ 8️⃣

[somber elk]

BARB AND BARBER

[jovial anvil]

South Korea has amazing healthcare. No excuses.

[onyx current]

Range & Ranger

Skill expression: run at ranger haphazardly hoping he will miss his windlass shot and wont 2 tap you with his longbow. Skill expression was never for melees but to showcase your CoD Kid god-aim with bows. Shorter ttk is so much fun

Dont forget that in case you do get in melee, they still get two free hits with backstep spear, or will 1shot you with shotgun if you dont have a shield. Have fun!

[coral heron]

@keen onyx @dawn grotto @full tulip did a good job with this, i love the gear stat change, love the hr no restrictions! As a filthy casual I am loving being able to skill dif, winning all the time as fighter or warlock. I don't think barb needed the buff, other than that I think gears damage and armor should still scale. Change those 2 things, maybe nerf ranger a bit, and I think this is a good direction. This is how it was early on, back to the old days of skill expression like in the alphas lol

[rugged summit]

Gld to see someone shares my views on this. If the The Armour rating went up even justs 2 AR per tier it would be good. Weapons damage i think should go up 1 point per tier starting at epic. So Green, and Blue, dont get any extra, but have the modifier rolls, then purple + starts getting 1 point per tier.

Barb is completely busted like usual... XD

[austere nacelle]

i just wanna know why im forced to deafen myself if i wanna survive banshee's 3rd scream yet i need to be able to hear just to live... makes no sense.. not to mention grabbing the ghosts is so tedious especially WHILE trying to fight/dodge her at the same time. even if she sat there and let me collect ghosts i'd need to be a double jump high move speed rogue just to get them in time. like my god, who thought that was a good idea?? "yea the players need to collect the ghosts to live yet it also makes them die, AND they all fly high enough to where no one can grab them, sounds good" like cmon man

[meager jasper]

graysun posts a fucking riddle quiz in chat while thousands of people start negatively reviewing his game because of the trash-tier patch

The complete disconnect from reality in these guys. I'm totally blown away. Are they straight up having a psychotic break? Do they think the appropriate response to being told they've completely destroyed their own game by even apologistic streamers like Onepeg is to get fucking whimsical on us as if it's a joke?

[austere nacelle]

oh, and they'll never nerf druid the way it SHOULD be nerfed because they favor druid.

[meager jasper]

That's a huge overreach. But I do think he's actively incompetent and needs to go. Probably Graysun too if this is his response

There's literally nothing wrong with druid. If not for this busted patch making the scaling wonky it would still be in a bad place. I guess people can't help but interject the classes they don't like fighting into the more serious total collapse of loot and combat.

[austere nacelle]

there literally is something wrong with druid and if you cant see that you havent been watching/playing the game since druid dropped obviously.

and also, when is the spellcasting getting fixed? im sick of my crosshairs being RIGHT ON TARGET and spells/curses just missing the target. like cleric heals, curses from warlock, etc. shit is so annoying

[quartz jetty]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🅾️ 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭 6️⃣ 8️⃣

[amber oar]

Let someone else develop this game, you are the worst developers I’ve ever seen. There’s my suggestion.

[coral heron]

Yea, just a small change but with it at the far end.

Amen to Barb. Don't worry I just have to decide to main it this season and @keen onyx will nerf it to hell as he usualy does to what ever i main lmao

[naive viper]

that isn't how lawsuits work bestie

[coarse kraken]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/590232/terrence-back-as-solo-head-game-design-developer

[rugged summit]

🇼 🇸 🇩 🇫 🔥🇰 🇪 🇪 🅿️ 👨‍🍳 🇨 🅾️ 🅾️ 🇰 🇮 🇳 🇬 🙏

[hasty flare]

SDF SHOULD RESIGN FROM LEAD DEV IMMEDIATELY TO SAVE THE GAME

SDF ISN'T SORRY AND HE WILL NOT REVERT THE PATCH, HE DOES NOT CARE ABOUT HIS PLAYER BASE

GO LEAVE A STEAM REVIEW AND LET THE DEVS KNOW HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT THIS PATCH

SDF IS A HYPOCRITE AND A LIAR, HE SITS AND LAUGHS AT US KNOWING HE JUST WASTED 6 WEEKS OF OUR TIME AND EFFORT, HE SPITS IN YOUR FACE AND LAUGHS

[glacial sphinx]

I like SDF a lot more than I like some guy constantly spamming in a game's discord about how terrible he is for trying a new direction in the game he made

[rugged summit]

This chat is actually full of children.

To be 100% real, a lot of them are experiencing actual withdrawal symptoms. It's not a joke or insult.

Loot extraction games give serious dopamine hits when you get good items. It's the same response from gambling.

They just spent a month gathering a massive loot horde, and watched it's value just get dumpstered.

Now when they loot the gear doesn't seem as good, they're not getting that dopamine hit they normally get.

[quartz jetty]

This patch is so insanely bad that after 3000 hours of playing the game is completely cooked and unfun. I'm done until its reverted to Hotfix #68 which was the best game state yet.
Sad how the devs can go from the best game state to the absolute worst in just 1 patch and screw over their dedicated and loyal fanbase with 0 regard.
REVERT TO HOTFIX #68

[hasty flare]

All steam reviews is about to fall below the 70% positive threshold into an overall MIXED rating -

EVERYONE NEEDS TO LEAVE A STEAM REVIEW

EVERYONE NEEDS TO LEAVE A STEAM REVIEW - WETHER ITS NEGATIVE OR POSTIVE

[vestal cloud]

i really cannot enjoy this game when there is 10 barbs everygame and they literally 1 tap you

the balance team really is smoking crack

w 2 shot by barb every fucking game im actually gonna finally quit this game if this isnt fixed soon'

[short sorrel]

Why don't we just remove health pools? That way as soon as people load in they immediately die. Also, lets remove all chests and monsters from the game

[green swift]

now i just run halbred/windlass on my fighter with sprint/victory strike, since 2nd wind isnt useful anymore. and its just one tap city. chest shot to a cleric/warlock/wiz/ranger/rogue is a garunteed kill, barbs get 1 tapped with victory rush windlass, and if not that, halbred headshots outrange bardiche. theres no reason anyone should ever die in a single hit in this game. but ill keep abusing it to get more people to complain to fix it

[deep jackal]

-nerf op classes barb ranger (remove traps or extremely nerf them), and over all balance the game -rework some trash or useless skills , spells or perks , improve Qol like auto sort the stash and bag , make a good description for the spells,perk and skills, and for the game overall, the text that describe the spells perks and skills are poor and they dont give details or tell you how much the skills have stacks or the cooldown reduction of the spell, make good description of every weapon, like how much fast it swings or beeing equipped, the game is not informative at all , need description where we exactly find the quest items that we want because a lot of noob player finds it hard and unfun and the game is less accessible- revert items stats -highroller easier to acess with not making any gear requirement and make only one requirment is to be lvl 20 or 30 to acess it, make ranked balanced having good mmr tracking give ap to players they are more successful and skilled and by the amount of gold and gear that they farmed quantity and quality for all the characters by account and not the single character-make ranked accessible to free to play players- make normals could only be played with squire (common items)- remove poor items-remove can have more squire gear option by doing quests - every one can have all common items from squire gear;and you can common utility items from merchents to acess normals-make ranked rewards once by account not by character for all ranking and make ranked system more rewarding -quest should be shared by all character of each account and could not be done by mulitiple characters from the same account to get more rewards- remove quest that give coin bags or emotes and , make coin bags could be looted in dungeon, make the emotes that aquired in quest are aquired in ranked ladder instead , new crafting system ' using matirials to change the bonus rolls of items" , implant new talent system because the game is getting boring.

[prisma shadow]

Press W and Left Click and let the gear do the work for you I guess.

You would get more prolonged fights and more opportunities to outwit your opponent instead of it becoming a kite fest with hitting someone and then backing away```

[limber elbow]

If Ironmace really wants to balance this game, including combat and balanced gear for all classes, it would be to reset all items to the original time, remove all bonus stats except the basic stats, remove +1 damage or true damage on equipment like the beta test time, all combats would be balanced and slow and everyone would feel like they would win, not knowing for sure that they would lose when looking at the class and guessing whether they would win or lose. Equipment in the game should only add interactive stats instead of giving players a bunch of basic stats added and then stacking stats that completely destroy the game.

[karmic crag]

1K+ VOTES ALREADY, DONT FORGET TO VOTE PPL

#TERRY4PREZ #TERRY2024 #NotMySDF #MakeDarkAndDarkerGreatAgain #DontSdfOnMe #ThinSdfLine

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/590330/petition-to-replace-sdf-with-terry-as-lead-dev

[shy yacht]

========== IRONMACE PLEASE READ ==========

HAWK TUAH EASTER EGG CONCEPT FOR DARK AND DARKER:

the druid chicken form has a tiny percent chance to say like "bawk tuah" (chicken version of hawk tuah, which stays close to the bird theme of the meme)

[prisma shadow]

========== IRONMACE PLEASE READ ==========

HAWK TUAH EASTER EGG CONCEPT FOR DARK AND DARKER:

the druid chicken form has a tiny percent chance to say like "bawk tuah" (chicken version of hawk tuah, which stays close to the bird theme of the meme)

[indigo kindle]

If anyone finds a game that compares to what this once was, please DM me. Midnight Walkers is super EA but crafted around the same concept. The game play feels.. stiff.. but might be worth a shake. Hunt didn't do it for me and neither did ABI.

[shrewd hornet]

I love this game and I have been playing since playtest 1. As someone who enjoys both casual and competitive aspects of this game, this update was not for the better. Even from the perspective of some of my friends who have maybe 100 hours or less on the game, dislike this update. Aside from the apparent misbalancing that came with this patch, the gear is the main thing to look forward to in this game. Even for casual players, patch 68 was one of the best things that could have happened to this game. This is because for the people that go into under 25 and just want to have fair fights, there is still fun in looting around and getting that dopamine hit from finding a legendary in inferno every once in awhile. While I do agree that certain items needed a gear nerf (pdr for fighter as an example). Making end game progression and under 25 progression identical with no point to kill players, loot players, take any risks, or explore end game content, has made the game incredibly stale for both casual and competitive players alike.

[austere bramble]

If your playing fighter, try longsword or ranged, if your playing anything try ranger

[ripe belfry]

Here's what I'm hoping for over the next few patches. Remove all random rolls. Add sockets to gear. The rarity of your items dictates your open sockets. Add gems to the game. Then you can craft your gear to have exactly what you want, assuming you can find or buy the gems you're looking for. Let the gems be your modifier. Like hp on pants is currently 1-4. Make the hp gems roll between 1-4. This way, even if gear is normalized, you'll have no dead rolls on any of the gear you made yourself.

[hasty flare]

guys - spread the word - this is the way --

Log out of the game, leave a steam review, stop spamming, stop crying, just make this place a ghost town - this is the most effective way to pressure the devs

Bad reviews and low player count is the only thing they care about

Nobody will buy the game with such shit game reviews

you can play the free version on steam - then review it - simple

[outer meteor]

The patch is actually good

[royal plinth]

There are 2 possibilities:

1.) The current value of gear is intentional and part of “the vision,” which means “the vision” is terrible for the game.

2.) The current value of gear is not final and a better change is coming soon, which indicates that the developers knowingly pushed an unfinished update that they apparently knew would be terrible.

So that means that either

1.) Ironmace doesn’t know what they are doing and what is good for the game.

Or

2.) Ironmace doesn’t value the time of their players and willingly ruined the game for a week for the sake of breaking a big update into multiple parts for some reason?

Either way, it’s a reason to be upset.

[indigo kindle]

Hey you guys should put all the players on a bus for the pre game lobby and then we can like.. drop into the dungeons where we want to. You should also let us have an emote that we can show we were the last team alone X number of times. Maybe offer a creative mode? Add some vehicles like horses, wagons.. maybe a seasonal mini dragon we could fly. Also, change the name to something like.. Dungeon Royale!

[tawdry pulsar]

My suggestion is that you allow multiple purchases of throwing knives/axe, people will log on alts to buy them anyway, it would be a nice quality of life update.

[austere bramble]

Been over 36 hours and people are still malding

[hasty flare]

yeah and nothings gonna change that until they revert patch or player count has gone below 10k peak concurrent and it literally dies.... so... 5-10 days probably

[austere bramble]

Just give it a break yelling about it in the suggestions isn’t helpful at all

[hasty flare]

sure it is, the only things devs care about are steam reviews and player count

so... log out of the game, leave a steam review and wait

[austere bramble]

Some people actually are enjoying the game

[hasty flare]

gamers looking for a game to play will check the reviews and not waste their money on a game that has devs who disrespect and troll their community and waste peoples time

[austere bramble]

U don’t have to spend money to play the game…
Just let people enjoy the things they want to

[hasty flare]

yeah exactly, thats my point, there is no reason to buy the game now, squire kit is BIS so paying for upgrade version is actually a waste of money

[austere bramble]

Just give it a bit of time
U know they aren’t going to change anything for another half week so why complain the entire time instead of just playing something u like and letting others play the game if they want to

[tribal belfry]

But why overhaul gear entirely it basically throws out the past 2 years of work

[hasty flare]

see heres the thing that you fail to understand
steam reviews are FOREVER
if enough people crater the steam reviews, the dev's will be forced to change
otherwise, they lose their jobs because the game will die

SIMPLE, REALLY

[austere bramble]

I’d rather the game die than be changed cuz some randoms on the internet cried in a discord server

[hasty flare]

You can call it immature, cringe, short sighted, mean spirited, whatever you want

but the point is, the dev's disrespected and spit in the face of anybody who put more than 50hours into this season,

all the inventories worth of saved loot and crafted kits are now essentially worthless and a waste of time

so they get the silly prize for their silly game, understand?

call it what you want, but its effective

[austere bramble]

But at any rate it isn’t going to die within the next week

[austere bramble]

I admit they could have done it better like at start of wipe or giving a warning but it’s happened so deal with it

[hasty flare]

w/e you say lmfao, they have hurt themselves and the community is just responding to their actions

dev spit in the face of the community and are suprised when the community spits back

SHOCKED

[austere bramble]

Except they didn’t they just changed the game in a way some people didn’t like and now those people are crying because they don’t like change in an Early access game

[hasty flare]

cope however you want, wont change the opinion of the majority of the community lul

[austere bramble]

Where is this majority
I have eeen maybe 50 people complain about it

[tawdry jay]

you are as blind as sdf

[austere bramble]

I mean legally speaking probably more

[hasty flare]

timmy's gonna timmy, ya know, that guy's only been in the discord for a 5-6weeks

[austere bramble]

Ok sorry for putting 120 hours into a game I enjoy and will continue to enjoy despite ur complaining

[hasty flare]

120 hours, made my point for me, thanks
keep playing until you realize the gameploy loop is broken and theres no point in doing highroller or bosses or looting anything really, this is now just a pvp battle royal where squire kit is 90% as strong as full unique kit

[tawdry jay]

in your honest opinion how does this update make the game fun, majority of these complainers have been "holding the line" through thick and thin, this is an actual issue that will make the game become unfun and boring.

[austere bramble]

Look would u rather multiclass or this if it were omplemented right now

[hasty flare]

multiclass was fun for like 3 weeks until meta was so established that if you didn't play it you couldn't compete

this patch was immediately hated with 1 hour of dropping because everyones invetories were completely wiped out

economy was ruined, gear is worthless, no point looting anything, just W key and PVP, if thats all you want then cool man thats why they have arena

[austere bramble]

Because it’s just as fun as the update before
I enjoy the gameplay loop and loot isn’t completely worthless

[tribal belfry]

Multi classing bc there’s at least a endgame gear wise but either way it’s irrelevant they know multiclass doesn’t work

[hasty flare]

bingo, even with multiclassing there was at least REASON to farm and get better gear and complete quests

Now there is no point in literally anything.. like.. why put 20 hours into questing for a 2% better item

[tawdry jay]

how do you enjoy the gameplay loop? honest question

[austere bramble]

By killing stuff whether it be pve or pvp and doing quests
Also trying to squeeze the most stats out of a joke build
Or just messing around with friends

[hasty flare]

he probably does, probably hasn't even explored hell much or done lich/gk/warlord

the base game is fun and exciting but... there is legit no progression, no point in looting now, no point questing, its only pvp battle royal

[tawdry jay]

now take that, and look at someone like me who has 700 plus hours

don't you think that would get a tad bit stale?

[austere bramble]

Yes but so do most games after 700 hours tbf

[tawdry jay]

yes

[tawdry jay]

the main reason why this game stayed alive so long was because of its gameplay loop, the excitement of getting a good piece of gear. Just last night i got a legendary frost amulet that was worse than my current blue one. there's absolutely no point in getting anything past squire gear because you can win most engagements against people who have "better" items.

[austere bramble]

I do think the should tone down the gear change a bit but I also think moaning about it in the discord isn’t very helpful

[hasty flare]

ok so... are you now agreeing with my original post??? --
Log out of the game, leave a steam review, stop spamming, stop crying, just make this place a ghost town - this is the most effective way to pressure the devs

Bad reviews and low player count is the only thing they care about

Nobody will buy the game with such shit game reviews

[tawdry jay]

that's the most effective way i agree, people arent mad because they just want to be mad, they're mad because the devs are making terrible decisions that will ultimately lead to the death of a game that they love and have been supporting for a long time.

[faint onyx]

They really not going to fix this...

[hasty flare]

nah, just logout, dont play, leave a steam review, discourage new gamers from buying the shit version of the game until they fix

[wispy viper]

This patch is great.

[final steeple]

I'm curious what the doomers would feel if the stat changes were as they are but TTK was dramatically longer?

[jolly leaf]

I though about it, and I think it would have been fine or at least interessting to try. For me the issues is more the short TTK than the gear normalization. Maybe I would have normalized only the base attribute and not the armor value tho, or only reduce the gap between common and legendary armor value at first

And probably normalize gear to Rare and not Epic rarity.

Honestly right know I don't see where he's going, what's the next change? He talked of removing entirely random attribute but doing that after this patch would left gear with nothing, normalized stat and no random attribute mean that there is no rarity anymore. Every Doublet, every Plate boots in the game are the same, that would completely kill the looting aspect of the game

[gentle mica]

make it to where the quests transfer across classes
ofc only one class can recieve all the rewards but
having to do all the quests on one class really sucks

[rugged ridge]

make uncommon and below 3 static attribute - rare and epic 4 static - legendary+ 5 and have all gear eligible for random rolls always have one of the most desired rolls (boots always roll move speed, rings always roll true damage pants and chest always roll max hp etc.) also remove add damage as a roll and other redundant or bad stats or buff them significantly. removing random modifiers will absolutely kill the game but making all items decently competitive but still incentivizing gear hunting is pivotal to a game like this. also revert the barb changes and give everyone 15 hp back and make armor values and weapon base damage scale slightly with rarity as well. this would be the responsible and actual patch that you should have released and it seems pretty obvious to me so i think you guys at ironmace are like too deep in the trenches to see clearly. - these changes move the game in the direction you want while still keeping the essence of the core game loop intact. also don't change classes in the same patch you change every single item? it just doesn't make any sense to do that when you don't actually know the capabilities of any of the classes when you have a complete item overhaul...

[jagged cargo]

@keen onyx @dawn grotto @full tulip barb needs a nut of a perfect, ranger too. Gear should scale interms of the armor amount and damage, better gear should have a higher change of good rolls, or maybe each new roll level gains access to a new and better teir of rolls. Over all love the attribute change, and absolutely adore and love the high roller being able to be done in Squier. The game is now more skil focused then ever, and as a casual player im loving it. 7 out of 10, good move, dig the new (return to the old) direction!

[faint onyx]

Why haven't they reverted player are leaving in droves what is happening...

[crude hill]

Because is his game, and they want to make their own game even if some players don't like what they are creating.

And yes, making their own game is always incompatible with making all people happy and they know.

[zenith cipher]

i want to see wat sdf’s entire vision of the game is, show us some points and how u think it should work to see if it’s worth investing my time or not

[atomic shuttle]

it is glad to see the low active players during this shit patch, well done sdf

[proven valley]

buy SDFs share of the company

[wet stream]

by forcing all players to be at a fair playing field gear wise, it makes the glaringly unfair builds pop out like sore thumbs. Which is a good thing.

[quartz jetty]

This game will die if the devs keep pursuing this "vision". The only vision I see is the dedicated and loyal playerbase being completely unheard.
Patch #68 was the best the game has been.
REVERT TO HOTFIX #68

[red orbit]

we can never keep something good, wake up bro

[astral holly]

I think a lot of players whine about this or that being over powered but just not knowing how to play the game/it’s so punishing so quick with fights.

You’ll spend so long looting n things but when it comes to fights, it can be so short it’s nuts.
I think probably increasing the health pools or ya know, better skill based matchmaking :p

[jade spruce]

Gonna miss patch 68 and the true vision the developers had for the early iteration. It was fun not have to spend a ton of time gearing up but still wanting to get atleast 1 random modifier as a primary roll for my kit. Kill times on bosses felt better and so did the pvp with less time for people to run away and heal. I hope after you see the same people complaining, which you tried to appease, you will then continue on with your vision. I have loved all the iterations, thanks ironmace

[warm ruin]

@keen onyx @dawn grotto @shy fulcrum @mint ravine

Use a playtest server, and wait for major sweeping changes for a new season. If you are going to do major overhauls it should not be done in the middle of a season.

Changing the loot we have accumulated some based on your recent changes only to change things again. Continuing to nerf and change the loot we have strived for is blatantly disrespectful to your community.

Minute changes between gear rarity is not rewarding.

Lowering peoples HP and now Lowering Damage on weapons is counter productive and doesn't lead to good gameplay.

Shorter TTK rewards jumping people, catching them off guard, this is not rewarding gameplay.

Make Arena Rewarding, Full time with Arena Tokens (silver for winning a round, gold for winning a match) that can be used to mark items through a crafting ritual as bound and able to be used in arena.

Let us quick fill the Expressman's inventory instead of dragging each item over to him!

Allow the full time (120 seconds on average) between levels in the dungeon regardless of who is left in the instance above, This will give every player the chance to use the expressman, set a campfire, go bio irl, etc

Stop the dungeon rotation, allow players to go where they want when they want.

Continue working on QoL improvements.

Stop trying to milk players with backdrops and cosmetics, this is not The Cycle Frontier, don't let it crash and burn like that game with their wild choices to simplify the game between their alpha and release and their choice to concentrate on cosmetics instead of QoL and gameplay.

[raven heart]

this was a game i absolutely fell in love with. please stop listening to 75% of the streamers that are constantly bitching

[jade spruce]

I have enjoyed all the iterations of the game. My only suggestion is to stop listening to players and stick to the vision.

[raven heart]

^most of your community want slight changes that improve the players prosepctive of the game

[rugged summit]

@keen onyx Don't cave to the pressure. The recent changes to gear were a MAJOR step in the right direction. Keep pushing forward with your vision, and it will be better for the longevity of this game. Keep up the good work guys.

[raven heart]

the gear changes were necessary thats not what im talking about

[warm ruin]

please quit talking about the fart emote, it encourages toxic and childish people, trolls and the like, it's another example of development shortsightedness

[raven heart]

i used to be warlock until the devs made warlock in trios over powerd then i swapped to rogue so i could atleast give other teams a chance. for 5 updates now youve given all spellcasters buffs, while tweaking all melee classes. as a primary melee user why are we still condoning spell supremacy in a game that is supposed to be balanced in trios?

[warm ruin]

you are so wrong, if base gear is as good or better than legendaries there is no reason to loot and no reward for looting or killing people cause the loot is worthless....

[crude hill]

Honestly we need some jokes discord has been a rage party lately.

[raven heart]

the devs have always said trips are their focus

[rugged summit]

Base gear wasn't really better than legendaries though is it? Sure there were a few weapons that were clearly bugged, and rolling below common, im sure that's probabaly fixed now.

[raven heart]

this is the first time im sharing my discorse with a game ive been involved with for two years . i wouldnt call it rage . id call it dissapointment, as were given hope that things will balance but they never will

[warm ruin]

every weapon I had has less damage than my common weapons

[rugged summit]

No for me. I pulled a nice Recurve that was doing more damage than the low tiers. But yes, i know it was an issue. It seemed more common on certain weapons.

Hopefully that is fixed, i doubt it was intentional

[warm ruin]

I lost a whole page of weapons I just vendored... only what, to have them change it again....? so I should have held onto them?

[raven heart]

why is it so shit? when you get 5 random properties on legendary gear that could turn the tide vs a regualr grey player

atleast free to play has a chance against us fucking monsters

[crude hill]

i dont know what you did but yes it was only rage in general

[rugged summit]

Maybe don't over-react then silly. Does nobody read the delevoper comments?

[warm ruin]

it showcases how shortsighted this "vision" is....

[raven heart]

im not in general chief thats why im in suggestions

[warm ruin]

muted

[jade spruce]

Then itemization of 69 was perfect. I was hoping for flat random modifiers but I also like the idea of grinding for perfects. The implicit stats are the most powerful anyways. Hope you guys stick with your vision.

[raven heart]

bethesda is a fucking money capital W like ea hush wiz.

i dont speak english as a first mb

all dev studios start as indie

[rugged summit]

Thank you. I liked it too. I wouldn't mind if they made very slight difference between some of higher tiers. like +2 AR per tier, or something like that. Maybe even legendaries and uniques have +1 base attribute. But mostly it should be about getting perfect rolls.

Each rarity has better chance of rolling what you want, more stat lines = more lottery tickets to perfect roll.

[warm ruin]

you don't understand... if my movement is better, and my game knowledge is better, your "perfect gear" is literally meaningless, I was wiping trios as a solo with squire gear and a junk purple to get above 25 GS lobbies.... this is not what you actually want, gear NEEDS to matter

[raven heart]

LMFAO like no mans sky? that flopped until the devs listened to the communitys vision of the game?

[warm ruin]

just to literally vendor their gear sets cause they are meaningless

[rugged summit]

Gear has literally always mattered in this game. The fact that you make that argument, and then reference Gear Score, which was only created to sepearate Juicers from non-juicers, it kind of funny.

[raven heart]

the devs have what they want and thats ABSOLUTELY FINE they created it. its their ip, we give ideas because we devote our time to their product

Switch is the least popular console in adult audiences. are you a child?

[warm ruin]

this last patch made it so I could wipe trios with grimmies and 300 gear score in squire gear... Gear didn't matter, it's too easy to kill people and gear doesn't matter

[raven heart]

thats embarassing asf

[slate vine]

Should DEFINITELY either do a wipe, rollback to last hotfix for inventory, OR give bluestone shards for people who played during this hot sh**

[rugged summit]

You should absolutely be able to kill anyone, in squire gear.

[raven heart]

maybe because its 10x more affordable than a pc that will hold up 10+ years

because i bought one for my kid instead of a laptop, but there are 0 R rated switch games? what point are you trying to prove? its a childs device

[warm ruin]

I sure as heck do not want blue shards for crappy cosmetics as an apology, that is just salt in the wound, just fix this BS and save major changes for the next wipe

[crude hill]

[raven heart]

Have you played them? lmfao

i bought borderlands 3 , theres no blood , no gore . youre funny

[slate vine]

A good little bundle of bluestone shards would make me feel alot better- on the edge of permenately quitting the game, so many bad changes at terrible times randomly mid wipe that kinda ruin the game integrity. What are they talking about porting to console instead of actually making the game playable again? Can you imagine trying to play druid on console lol

[raven heart]

talking straight out your ass , get a grip

[jade spruce]

It does matter. Its just not such a disparity where ungeared players cant compete. There is definitely squads of people minmaxing and wiping solos like yourself. I have been crushing barbs all day with wizard and cast speed builds.

[raven heart]

yes pay for cosmetics please ❤️ it will give this game more funding , i have about 3/4ths of the emotes . i dont want this game to die because of people like you wizard\

LMFAO check my steam acc ❤️ im sure i have more hours ❤️

[slate vine]

real gamers use the ironmace launcher

[raven heart]

its the same as my disc and its even linked

i was worried the game wouldnt succeed through the lawsuit, kinda wish i would have bought , still got it 10 dollars cheaper than most of my group did

2 blocked messages (show messages)

[warm ruin]

I miss when a company would work on a game for a couple of years, release a banger for 60 bucks, and move on to make another banger instead of milking the player base with cosmetics that take an afternoon to pump out

[slate vine]

I miss combat arms

[raven heart]

@ battlefield badcompany 2 , totally agree ret

[slate vine]

same

more ppl playing games than ever too.... idk

[raven heart]

i get that cosmetics are how they boost engagement for ftp players but i dont want to feel like its necessary for me(us payed players) to buy them for the game to stay afloat

[jade spruce]

Its a multiplayer only live service model. While I do appreciate what you are talking about, I also appreciate this model because of the quality the live service brings with its servers.

[raven heart]

factual , kinda like how steam is open 7 days a week with like an hour of downtime on tuesdays

[slate vine]

I want to add a bazooka emote that allows me to shoot a bazooka at my enemies and 1 tap them that only I get

[boreal kiln]

It’s crazy that DaD devs still haven’t figured out a way to install a new patch without bringing the servers down for hours… Look at any game on steam there’s almost never any downtime when there’s an update

[raven heart]

its horrific that they dont engage this chat bcause of people lile wiz

[slate vine]

Don't agree with me man 🤮

[raven heart]

LMFAO thats funny

[slate vine]

No- I was being sarcastic, and I think you are a very special guy

[raven heart]

Lol like i said hes a fuckin troll just mute him

[warm ruin]

you act like this is something new and revolutionary. Games as a service have been around for 30+ years, and look at the content they were released with, WoW and DDO and Everquest, etc.... these games had dozens and dozens of areas and dungeons and wilderness's, where gear of different level and rarity mattered, and made a huge difference in success of the player... this game is showcasing what a hackjob it is... three dungeons... all gear is the same, buy our cosmetics so we can make more cosmetics...

develop some content

[night marten]

roooar(troll pack)

[raven heart]

@warm ruin i kinda agree but dont at the same time??? WoW stole alot of its IP from private modders and they still are , atleast ironmace is giving these people money for creating content for their game

@warm ruin what i mean is they took the most op items from mods/ plugins and made them cannon weapons

[warm ruin]

you can buy most of these assets used in this game.... almost nothing here was developed by ironmace

[slate vine]

All they've been doing is proving that they don't want to listen to the community, don't know how to plan or balance a game, don't release good new well thought out content etc. There are so many items in game that have literally no use- so many DEEP balance issues with druid- arguably warlock even though thats one of my mains. Game has fallen from glory I don't think they want to bring it back- and I think the whole playerbase is too sweat lord to have the vibe be the same because they pushed all the normal players out, not going to give them more money

[raven heart]

so was the absolute hit game OUTLAST , ever asset was proven to be bought , however it was a fantastic game that revitalzed the genere

[warm ruin]

yes, the best games embrace their community and thrive off of what it has to offer... not go off on some DMT induced vision of nerfing all the gear and making fart emotes to fuel their pockets

[raven heart]

then again DnD (WotC) doesnt even knoiw how to balance their game and this is what DaD is based on

@warm ruin nah i do agree the the fart emote was "special" if yk what i mean

[slate vine]

LGBTQANONXYZAMONGUS PACK

I'm tired and sad game is dying is all- not hate I was laughing

[raven heart]

gear balancing i agree with, it gives us an incentive to drive for legendary gear about 40% of the time. however the emotes are getting out of hand. if youre going to buy assets , buy the ones that are relevant to your vision. two years ago i would have never imagined a literal s h i t t i n g emote

wiz literally all of your ideas are memes ok? so s t f u on someone else for once

kinda am just waiting for ret and unencounterable at this point

[slate vine]

Leaving the convo, soon all that will be left of this community will be people like wizard

[raven heart]

thats absolutely sad asf Unencounterable . thats what i did to mordhau as a top 100 player and now its dead...
no one cares what you say you weird ass therian wackjob ~for wiz

[crude hill]

@keen onyx "Changed all equipment to have slight differences depending on rarity" This sounds like going against what you wanted or tried to achieve. I hope this is not another "bandage" you talk about.

Hopping to be wrong when patch is done. I m not saying that i liked the last patch but i definitely liked your strong will to do as you pleased.

[warm ruin]

I have never felt so in touch with the game as I did in patch 68. I had never felt like gaining access to HR and it mattering was readily achievable without having to buy a kit off the market.

It felt good to be rewarded for going down to the Ice Abyss in norms for one or two runs to gear up to be able to duke it out in HR with the gear I found. It felt good, it felt right...

Now I'm squire gear crushing HR Timmies with gear that doesn't matter....

[slate vine]

Yes... gg's

[raven heart]

literally added Ret for that one, spoken like a champion

no we all found something more important than conversing with a S P E D

[jade spruce]

I think this is pretty closeminded. The have added many things to each map, an ice hell, an arena, auction house, too many qol features to list. To act like they have been focused on just the shop is bad faith. The developers deserve money, who can fault them for it?

[warm ruin]

compare it to great titles of the past, dozens and dozens of dugeons and wilderness areas, hundreds and hundreds of different named items on release vs Three dungeons with a few layers to them... this isn't closeminded, this is simply stating facts

[raven heart]

if the Deserve money than take away FtP... charge money for they game they worked so hard on

[prisma shadow]

redpipola SDF Ahh "Vision" for Rangers.

BOW RANGERS

Bow rangers are the most widely played "Class" within the Ranger category; these are players that usually play Survival Bow, Recurve Bow, and Longbow.

Changes to Bow Rangers:

Each Bow shouldn't be capable of drawing indefinitely. Depending on the Bow you're using, you only have a limited amount of time until your ranger gets 'tired.' Survival Bow would have the longest draw time due to the small poundage, while the Longbow has the shortest due to its heavy draw weight. Recurve Bow would be in between.

Bows gain the ability to 'knock' an arrow, meaning the arrow stays on the string instead of the character manually loading the Bow, loosening, and returning to an 'unloaded' state. This means bows with knocked arrows would draw faster than before, but this means that any time the ranger needs to switch weapons, the ranger manually takes off the arrow and then switches.

Longbow receives a longer draw time.
Longbow's arrow velocity increased to 52 m/s
Survival Bow arrow velocity increased slightly.
Possible addition for different arrow types (?)
Recurve Bow arrow velocity increased slightly.
Bows could loosen arrows prematurely. However, doing so without drawing completely depletes the range and damage of the shot. Therefore, to benefit from full damage, drawing the Bow completely is essential, but not a requirement. This can be used to dispatch enemies at low health, at close range quickly.

CROSSBOW RANGERS

Crossbow rangers are a secondary "sub-class" of Rangers usually specializing in: Crossbow, Windlass Crossbow, and rarely, Hand Crossbow.

Changes to Crossbow Rangers:

Crossbows do not need any substantial changes, only additions that could help the category.

Crossbow bolt velocity slightly increased.
Hand Crossbow reload is increased.
Crossbow-specific skills/or allow current skills to somehow apply to Crossbows, too, for example, quick fire. This perk gives action speed to bows and doesn't have any unique animations. This should apply to Crossbows too.
Forceful Shot should apply differently with Crossbows, depending on the type of crossbow, the knockback could be more powerful.
Hand Crossbow should have a perk that synergizes with dual wielding.

[warm ruin]

FtP is a great gateway to get people to pay for the game and FtP'ers are bodies in the dungeons.... something this game needs to survive...

You and I have both seen what empty dungeons look like... and this game doesn't have enough to offer with only PVE...

[warm ruin]

do you even play Ranger?

[raven heart]

@warm ruin ( i totally understand this is a different direction then ironmace plans buttttt) i was a tarkov enthusiast , i played before even Pestily. i now only play the pve (modded) version because of what the devs did to the game. I DO NOT want to ever see that happen to this game

[prisma shadow]

650+ hours with it babeh

[warm ruin]

then you should know that there is a difference between a fully drawn bow and just clicking to fire...

[raven heart]

nah Red is right youre refering to DnD 5th E cross bow ranger should be its own complete subclass its so vastly different than regular ranger gameplay

[prisma shadow]

erm i don't know where you're getting at? I'm suggestion bows should have the ability to knock an arrow and have it there

when you draw a bow and cancel the animation, your character puts the arrow back for some reason instead of having it on the ready.

[raven heart]

what youre saying is X-bow should be a slower but stronger counterpart to the Bow ? they are completely diferent weapons . you also never keep an arrow nocked unless youre an elven archer in lotr lmao

[warm ruin]

speaking of, thats another thing this game lacks, so many skills and perks that could be offered and expanded upon, sub classes, leveling up stats, feats....

if you keep trying to tweak every little thing and balance wht you have, you will never be able to add anything new....

adding new stuff always outshines the old stuff anyways

aka gear creep

aka perk creep

aka stat creep

aka class creep (see druids, can't wait to see how OP sorc is over the other casters or monk over the other melee)

and if the new stuff isn't better, then no one would want it, and if you are making stuff that no one wants, well bud, you ain't doing it right

in short stop all the miniature balance patches and introduce some actual content

[prisma shadow]

add Slings and javelins and I'll be happy

this game lacks content anyways, I'm getting tired of the constant balance changes. Let me have my Javelin Sub-Class of Rangers, squishy but deadly in medium-to-close combat.

[warm ruin]

you state:

"Bows could loosen arrows prematurely. However, doing so without drawing completely depletes the range and damage of the shot."

there is already a difference between a fully drawn shot and one let loose early

[raven heart]

@warm ruin Youre not wrong... in most games all players want a power creep. however inclding something as powerful as a gloomstalker Ranger in this game would be absurd . i see the point your trying to make.

[prisma shadow]

Yes, if you decided to loosen an arrow at half draw, your range and damage is limited, but in Dark and Darker that is barely a factor.

[raven heart]

same with dungeons and dragons . your dm determines whether a half draw does half dmg or has any other side effects

[prisma shadow]

If it was, then I'd love to know why the ranger I got into their face yesterday didn't loosen the bow faster when I was 10 HP. Could've really gotten me, but instead I watched him draw his bow completely and then he died when I speared him to death

[warm ruin]

incorrect, it makes a huge difference in damage fall off an velocity. I'm sure it's not easy for you to notice, but we used to have this area where you could test against a dummy... it was helpful... so helpful they decided to take it away....

[raven heart]

"true" half drawing as you suggest would require a complete overhaul ,where we had a little line that showed how far our bow was drawn. LIKE VERMENTIDE . however thats not what this game was ever meant to be

[warm ruin]

you were in melee with a ranger who had a bow in their hand? I'm sure his name was Timmy... you can't take anything Timmy does as read...

[prisma shadow]

Nah I just backstepped into him and he didn't expect it

[raven heart]

but you still pulled a melee as ranger ? interesting

[prisma shadow]

Hubris

[raven heart]

more like you knew youd fuck that timmy up so you took the fight and now youre acting like it was a great feat

[prisma shadow]

I fuck up people all the time, I just get in their face as a ranger pavise main and they can't do anything. I don't play 25 lobbies, lmaoo

[raven heart]

shhh we know baby its okay your dogwater with your shit placement pavise makes sense

[prisma shadow]

erm okay?

[raven heart]

hold this 🔥 🏀

[prisma shadow]

thanks

[night marten]

rooar (ice troll pack)

[raven heart]

as im playing the game rn , wiz has no idea what hes yappin abt

[prisma shadow]

Into the sunset we go

[raven heart]

"show message"------ "collapse message"

i love how we all stop yappin once the servers pop up

[sullen valley]

how does the patch feel

[hasty flare]

they removed +Mem cap from the game LMFAO.... nobody can cast anything

[keen juniper]

here i thought sdf actually would make a meaningfull "revert", how dumb i was

[raven heart]

melee supremacy pretty raw too ngl

[prisma shadow]

The yapping continues

[sullen valley]

wow what a huge difference this patch made

[raven heart]

well when you wipe 3 teams as a solo barb in trios you kinda see melee is broken as long as youre not fighting spellcasters

[pale osprey]

Stack knowledge

[terse dawn]

@dawn grotto Reminder that Test Server exists

[rugged summit]

Lol what? I literally run 10 Spell with Spell overload with a squire kit..... GTFO

[jade spruce]

69 and 70 are both great patches. I am satisfied and can wait until the devs cook and make another cool patch. Enjoying the new meta!

[rugged summit]

Perfect patch btw. Slight AR improvements between tiers of armour, and slight DMG improvements between tiers on weapons. Base attributes remain the same for gear. WEll DONE 🙂

The new Meta is to now choose good gear pieces for your build, and get better Rarities to try and stack perfect rolls. Resistiances are now SUPER IMPORTANT! which is good. They want you worrying about your own gear, rather than wonderin if the person your fighting is a juicer. This is fundementally good.

[graceful frost]

this is such a joke lmfao

[prisma shadow]

My vision will become true thanks to SDF

[graceful frost]

homie ranger hasnt been touched in months and has been waiting on quiver for years.

Sdf aint doing crap, and going off these last 2 patches I don't think i want him touching ranger

[prisma shadow]

Its all coming together...

[crude hill]

Okay i Saw what you did. Better armor tier only means more armor rating and better weapon tier means more weapon damage. Its kinda the same but without any reason to not wear a rare item over an uncommon out of roll stats.

1 more point between tiers make it symbolical but fair enough to not feel scamed.

[prisma shadow]

========== IRONMACE PLEASE READ ==========

HAWK TUAH EASTER EGG CONCEPT FOR DARK AND DARKER:

the druid chicken form has a tiny percent chance to say like "bawk tuah" (chicken version of hawk tuah, which stays close to the bird theme of the meme)

[crude hill]

But players who have experienced higher scaling from item tiers in previous patches will keep complaining and saying that there is no point in looting anymore. What could be right or not.

[terse dawn]

Imma Diddy you after reading that

[prisma shadow]

:(

[haughty lichen]

========== IRONMACE PLEASE READ ==========

What about this:

Delete Poor and Unique (except for named artifacts), make stats White/Green = 4, Blue/Purple = 5, Legendary = 6

@deep fern

@dawn grotto
@keen onyx

[jolly leaf]

Have a look if you want faster map rotation https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/576260/improvement-to-the-new-matchmaking-system-and-map-rotation

(Upvote if you like the idea )

[somber elk]

SDF MADE GAME EASY FOR NEW PLAYERS BEC THERE IS SALE SOON
IN NEW YEAR I THINK
SDF THINKS ABOUT MONEY

[latent tundra]

Yo this is great and all... But Eldritch shield should not consume soil shards for no benefit!! Fix it pls!!!

[austere bramble]

Ok
It was just as easy for new players as before cuz they probably weren’t going to play above 25
Also New Years is still 2 months away

[haughty lichen]

========== IRONMACE PLEASE READ ==========

What about this:

Delete Poor and Unique (except for named artifacts), make stats White/Green = 4, Blue/Purple = 5, Legendary = 6

@deep fern

@dawn grotto
@keen onyx

[austere bramble]

Bring back buff/debuff duration it was actually built around

[rugged summit]

Listen, i know everyone wants the base attributes to go up with rarity, but they can't do it.

having different base attribute values based on rarity creates a balancing issue where there are essentially multiple versions of each class.

Green Wizard is not the same class as Blue Wizard, which is not the same class as purple Wizard. (If you're first response is to say it's only a small increase, it doesn't matter... why are you asking for it in the first place?)

They cannot effectively balance class abilities, perks, skills, weapons, spells, if they effectively have to balance the class in wildy different states. It's how we got issues of certain classes being completely neutered at the low end, but once they gear up they're 1-man army-certified smoke demons.

[supple lark]

my triumph level says youre max, whats that mean is it 5 blueshard max ? how can I buy felidian skin then it require 6 blue shard

[haughty lichen]

Because with these patches they have made looting pointless, which was one of the best things about the game.

[rugged summit]

This is beyond exaggeraton. I understand they should not have made this change mid-season. Nukeing everyone's stash was a bad move. But looting is still great, been playing with my buddies for the past 2 days and finding some great pieces.

You will never convince me that find Leather leggings (white) are totally the same thing as Leather legging (Blue) + 2 Vigor, +1 Magical power. Are totally the same piece.

[haughty lichen]

Just my opinion. I suck at the game no matter what gear I'm in.

[rugged summit]

I get it. I think a lot of people got addicted to searching for that god-like power. which i understand. all they really did was shift what should be considered god-like power.

We will adjust.

[haughty lichen]

I like that white gear can have a chance of killing a high geared player. I just think they need to slightly change the stats. The socketing system could be the way forward.

Maybe adding passive abilities with gems etc, idk

[snow dirge]

Please can IM add something to show our ping to IM servers

[rugged summit]

Socketing is definitely going to be something we see sooner rather than later.

[haughty lichen]

Could be great

[meager jasper]

They are actually blocking the name of the emoji they removed.

[wheat swan]

who knows that how to transfer account from blacksmith luncher to steam??

[latent tundra]

Yo ELDRITCH SHIELD should NOT eat soul shards for no benefit!!!!!

I will scream this into the night eternal until it is fixed!@ FIX ELDRITCH SHIELD PLS!!@!!11!!!

[meager jasper]

Klown too? Ah not yet.

[shrewd cape]

which other emoji than klown has been blocked ?

[austere bramble]

U have to play multiple seasons

[vivid warren]

🇷 🅾️ 🇱 🇱 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭 7️⃣ 1️⃣

[vital widget]

I would suggest if you Ironmace want to attract new players and keep old players

1. Dont Change The Fkin Item hugely （revert to 68 Hotfix）

2. Create overall fame for each account （delete doesn‘t remove the fame）

3. From （2）， create fame lobby （below 10），（11-20） something

4. from （2，3）， remove high drop rate loot for normal or create a new level for newbies （no high rare loot and no expensive ores）to prevent creating free id to bully the news.

5. Make some tutorial for news to learn the basic PVE and PVP before they enter the dungeon.

Everyone will be happy and its double win for everyone
Player = keeping loot value for player， when found BIS will happy

You Stupid IronHammer = Earn New Players and attract them to buy and earn the shet money you want

Newbie = could learn and slowly become a pro

Is this easy enough and workable？

[coral heron]

@keen onyx @full tulip @dawn grotto good direction on patch, good call on nerfs. to echo Sparkykawa I agree with him, that ranged weapons would be unloaded when equip, so ppl hot-swaping would just swap to an empty weapon ; simple but elegant fix

I LOVE that stats are common across all grades, great ability to build class' how you want. I still feel their needs to me more of a dif, armor and/or magic legendary to unique increase by 2 insted of 1. Also maybe 1 damage between weapon grades common through legendary, and 2 between legendary and unique; or somthing like that.

Over all love and adore the new direction, cant wait for whats next! thank you for making the game playable for everyone, not just gear-arm sweats! NOW SKILL MATTERS! WOOT!

[quartz jetty]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🅾️ 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭 6️⃣ 8️⃣

[ripe belfry]

now loot barley matters! makes me forget that I'm looking at stuff nothing worth my time!!! WOOOO!!!

[coral heron]

Yea, now you have to rely on skill, it's great. Loot does matter if it has good rolls. Rolls have been modified to be better and better at dif grades. I think gear still matters, but now skill does more. Sorry this paradigm isn't fun for you =/

[inland terrace]

Bad player gets gpod loot and can compete with lower gear skillful players. The skillful players with good gear always had an advantage. The embarrasing devs are just killing the casual. With no good and bad gear the casual cant use something to get an advantage. Everyone should have an opportunity to enjoy this game not just super gigasweat chaddingtons

[pallid rover]

yeah, guess what, getting loot is also a skill, being efficient in making gold is a good thing

and skill expression was also a major part before, its just that players that were bad were using gear diff as an excuse for dying

[jovial anvil]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🅾️ 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭 6️⃣ 8️⃣

they want feedback

people dislike the 69-1 patch and react 4000+ times

they remove them

lmao

[coral heron]

I sew the exact opposite of what you said. Now skill matters more, thus casuals with skill but not time will now benefit. Timmies can try lots of different builds, and sctualy have a good chance vs the PvE. This allows ppl who don't live in the game to have a chance. Because good gear that could compensate for lack of skill, the thing you said casuals need, was too expensive for casuals to get as if your casual you don't make enough gold to buy the items you would need to compensate for being casual. Only sweats and grinders ended up with that great gear that compensated, meanwhile in hr the casual was getting stomped because he had some blues, 1 purp, and some greens. Now that casual has a chance if they have skill, and now that casual has to grow in skill now gear tp get better at the game. I think this is am excelent state of affairs for all. This patch is a 10 out of 10 for casuals.

[coral heron]

It's more time, which casuals don't have. Too bad sdf doesn't want to reward gather skill as much as combat skill.

[inland terrace]

Therws hundreds of people who play this game who dont want to become skilled pvp lords. They just wanna kill pve and sell shit contributing to the market. Now all the looting and selling is blasted to high hell. No point in even using market or anything other than squire gear.

[coral heron]

Ypu could be trash in good gear and win, and you could farm that gear out with time. This patch benefits skill, ppl can still craft items, and crafted items are now like the best. This rewards that gatherer skill your talking about. In the end this is a combat game, combat should be king, and I'm glad they are reducing the grindy gild farm element of the game.

[pallid rover]

you can play under 25 or arena

whats the point of going into highroller if the only fear i have of dying is losing my pots and bandages

[inland terrace]

This game needs to work on player retention. the casual man that wants to just loot and sell shit to market is excluded now (15% of the players)
Why would you even loot now. The "vision" must be just be super pvp 1 room dungeons because removing gear diff makes the skilled players impossible for geared casuals to kill

[pallid rover]

yeah excatly this direction is targeted towards casual players, but how will a casual player win in equal gear

[inland terrace]

Thats what im saying. How can a bad player with bad gear beat an equally geared but much more skilled opponent. They cant. Unless they learn and get better. Which wont happen because they get ass blasted so hard by the gigasweats they quit after 3 games before even learning pve or going to inferno. When the dwv team realizes that they either need to go back 8 months in patches or MAYBE A PVE MODE FOR NEW PLAYERS TO LEARN TO FIGHT THROUGH AI SO EVERY GAME I PLAY ISNT FILLED WITH DEAD BODIES AND THE KILLFEED DOESNT LOOK LIKE CALL OF DUTY 2 MINUTES IN

Fuck i hate these devs but i love the game

[pallid rover]

patch 68 was probably the best time for casual players, looting was good, people didnt seek pvp that often, and you could gear up fairly easly and win some fights, rn its pointless, just look at LFG chat, "squire gear hr bossing, squire gear hr pvp..." why would i play the game as an exclusively hr player if i go in, dont risk anything in pvp, dont gain anything from pvp, if i wanted that i would go to arena

[restive ravine]

i agree

[pallid rover]

no casual with skill will ever beat a tryhard with low skill, how can they win, if they cant grind for an hour and get epic gear

[inland terrace]

Poor bastards in hr. Every game i play is either 100% asian na queue shitlords or some nutcasesthat rush spawns and insta pvp 30 seconds after the raid starts. Its even worse in normals. Inferno in normals is just pve because nobody makes it there at this point. They all get dunked on by 1 guy or all die to green goblin archers because they cant fucking learn basic ai attacks while also shitting their pants thinking someone will 1 tap them while screaming chinese.

Id honestly rather ahit in my hands and clap then play this game anymore

[tidal lake]

Keeping max health bonus and max health bonus after a game wide hp nerf, but removing buff duration which there were multiple builds centered around is wild

[coral heron]

All the complaining I see is "without good gear I will get skill differences and I don't like that" bro, welcome to competitive combat lmao

[coral heron]

Now casual with skill can beat tryhard with gear. The dif is small enough if you have skill you can now win easyer. Your just wrong, sorry ypur experience has led you to this conclusion.

@keen onyx is just telling ppl to get gud with this patch, hope ya can keep up!

[glacial sphinx]

Add a crafted silver ring with 12-15% buff duration 5% undead damage as its base stats

[inland terrace]

Learn english and how to spell.

The fact
of the matter is as follows.

a CASUAL player.
who by DEFINITION is low skill.

Now has an infinitely lesser chance of beating a TRYHARD.

Who by DEFINITION is high skill level.

The GEAR DIFFERENCE.

Is what allowed CASUAL
players to compete with TRYHARD players AT ALL.

Nobody cares to hear you say "get gud"

[latent tundra]

Eldritch Shield once again seems to be ignored... Please fix ES!! It shouldnt consume soul shards!!!

[tidal lake]

Losing mem cap is insane, every class with magic would usually slot in some spells to come online if they found some good knowledge/ mem cap gear

[latent tundra]

okay yes but with more stats gone, youre gonna find pure knowledge more often... so your point is kind of completely moot

[tidal lake]

Only if you are intentionally being contrary for the sake of it.

We used to have different stats bumps. I could validate losing 1str or say 2 vigor piece of clothing for a +2dex +2 mem cap type of clothing or any random trade of a low stat boost for something that would help me more.

Now every piece is 5 str. Losing 5 str to put on 5 knowledge when I only need +1-2 ain't great.

Sure I might find some str gear with knowledge but it's still silly when you look at what was kept instead. By your logic we will find more vigor so why is +max health bonus still around?

[twin prism]

Stf runing the Game intonthe ground

[latent tundra]

yeah but choosing to lose 5 str for 5 vigor + 2 knowledge to be able to cast a spell, that decision as a whole is a lot more meaningful and impactful

[valid loom]

just run knowledge capes and or rings

[latent tundra]

if the base stats on gear are so low that you'll give them up just to gain 1 more of a desirable stat elsewhere, I think it's safe to say those base stats are in a position where they are largely unimportant, and that's just boring lol

[latent tundra]

now if I bring an extra spell, and find some knowledge boots.. I'm really gonna think hard on if I wanna replace my own, if they aren't a direct upgrade. that's fun and is decision making that's beyond just basic math

[valid loom]

i more just mean he was complaining about losing 5 of a stat when he needs 1 or 2 knowledge and gaining 5 knowledge, rings and capes have +2 or +3 so it allows you to min max how you want

[latent tundra]

yes that is exactly what I am talking about too, same thing. swapping your 5 str gear out for 5 knowledge gear, that's a HUGE decision that can change your whole setup. that's engaging and meaningful. that's GOOD for gameplay. you cant be as optimal, no, but that's boring anyway

[royal plinth]

I genuinely think that anyone who believes this patch harbors a higher level of skill expression is either new, bad or both. Low TTK = less time spent fighting = less time to express skill and knowlege. YOU TROGOLODYTES WILL NOT CONVINCE ME OTHERIWSE

[polar crescent]

now that mem cap and buff stuff is gone bard needs a little love as either they lose a lot of stats to get more songs or their buffs dont last very long at the very least let the instruments have mem cap and buff modifiers

[slender compass]

he has persuasiveness

[polar crescent]

yes he has to lose other stats that he did not have to lose before just to get this

[slender compass]

?? what stats, its base off dex

[polar crescent]

its based off of resourcefulness

[slender compass]

well both actually

[gleaming fog]

69.1 = W hotfix, we back baby.

[polar crescent]

it says it in the tooltip what its based off of

[slender compass]

I do want so say that removing buff duration is a HUGE L

[polar crescent]

like just make instruments have them

[slender compass]

your correct. It was manual dexterity I was thinking of

[gleaming fog]

Way less of an L than sandwiching gear like they did though, we’re moving in the right direction. Also nice we don’t have to spend our random modifiers on stuff like that. They will probably balance that in the next hot fix. “That” being all the mini perks only certain classes needed.

[polar crescent]

my problem are these bandaid fixes are being done without thought they are just throwing them out because they are almost at 40% steam rating and people are pissed

[slender compass]

I agree but its a double whammy for me. Most people dont realize the usefulness of buff duration. To remove it after the changes is spitting on me while Im down

[royal plinth]

removal of buff duration is exclusively a fighter second wind nerf

[gleaming adder]

listen man my bard songs ain’t too happy either

[royal plinth]

will is just better, stacks both buff and debuff and gives MR. Fighter is a weird exclusive because the amount of healing directly scales off the duration

[gleaming adder]

Yeah that’s fair will is still a little worse from what I remember but fair enough

[royal plinth]

plus bard has some secret scaling with resourcefulness. worth testing if you play him a ton

[gleaming adder]

Oh yeah I’m aware of the resourcefulness stupid stuff, before I figured it out I was a little confused as to how my friends had longer duration of their buffs but yeah I don’t know the exact scaling

[royal plinth]

lol yep same. luckily i dont play bard and have just ignored it lol

[slender compass]

Will is not better than buff, 2 will max on a piece, thats just 2 %. you could get 5% on small pieces and 10% on big ones

at minimun its a 50% nerf

[royal plinth]

2 will can give 6% if youre below the threshhold

again its exclusively a fighter nerf. no other skill in the game prefers duration over CD

[slender compass]

???cleric and fighter is above the threshold for will

[royal plinth]

there are just better stats for every other skill than second wind

cleric benefits way more from cd/spell cast speed and magi heal than buff duration

[slender compass]

if you think people only used buff duration for fighter than your are mistaken. I understand the power but bard and cleric got more use out if it than a fighter

[royal plinth]

people building buff duration on cleric or bard are wasting gold and mis-typing their build

[slender compass]

and the dark offering build for warlock is gone

[glacial sphinx]

They should add a crafted buff duration ring

[royal plinth]

bard scales harder with resourcefulness and cleric has maybe 3 buffs that all prefer cast speed/cd or #of casts

[slender compass]

One of strongest cleric build in the game is a buff duration magic heal with overheal, Im not trying to be rude but you dont know either classes well enough if these arent even in discusion

[royal plinth]

thats just not true mate I'm sorry

[slender compass]

once again Buff is for accellorando and allegro. i feel like your not aware of all builds buff by duration

[royal plinth]

how on earth is buff duration increasing your heals on a magi heal overheal build... both accellorando and allegro are increased in duration by resourcefulness

[slender compass]

you use it for health pots to keep overheal proct

no they dont check the wiki. they have 0 scaling in pursuasivness

[royal plinth]

maybe on a bis kit if you have literally no other stats to stat into on 5 roll items. on anything else youre being gold inefficient

[slender compass]

its a super cheap build under a grand to have the health comparable to barb with double durations on all buffs.

[royal plinth]

buff furation only impacts your own buffs not the buffs you give to allies

[slender compass]

..... i know...... have you ever played cleric?

oh in reference to bard buffs, i see. its the only way to increase the effect for allegro and accell

[blissful crane]

Poison Arrows for Rangers!

[slender compass]

killercrow, i see you cookin. SPIT IT OUT

[twilit granite]

Why are test servers even being paid for and maintained when they never get utilized? seems like a waste of money and man power to even still have them unless you start actually using them.

WHY do you make insane changes mid season? everyone whos been crafting gear for arenas or building BIS kits got absolutely ball slapped by this patch. Also if you make big changes to how effective certain craftable weapons and armors are compared to squire gear, WHY would you not make them cheaper to craft at least for the week we had to deal with this? it was obviously done half-baked.
I'm also of the mind to think you knew this was going to happen and continued on anyways effectively wasting this weeks gameplay and disrespecting our time and continued support [Some more then others] but to a dedicated fan and supporter its pretty sad to go from one of the most hype and balanced patches we've had in quite sometime just to be served this gruel is rough.

[slender compass]

holy

he cooked

I will say, they do have a knack for doing this crap halfway through a season.

[twilit granite]

ALSO why do we have 2 leads developers or atleast 2 big influences actively competing for the direction the game is to be going? why are you not on the same page? i assume this is whats leading to these back and forth changes weve been dealing with. I would go through and list all the back and forth juggling the patches have had but honestly its too many to even keep count

what the heck happened to sorcerer, quivers, random dungeon layouts, guilds, class perks/tree, but no. Instead we are giving another month of balancing and changes until the new current direction the game is going feels as good as it used to.
Will sorcerer and previously promised content that is way over do be giving to us halfway through the next season effectively throwing balance out of wack again?

[wintry flume]

What if they adopted the approach they took with visored barbuta helm for armor, how it has a little bit of action speed on it. They could make it so blue is <x> number and then purple is the same exact <x> number but also has a tiny % on it. So that way it's still an upgrade but the tiers between gear aren't split so much. This way blues for example aren't BIS over purple 95% of the time.

[inland terrace]

What if they UPDATED THE TEST SERVER ALREADY FOR FUCK SAKE ITS ON PATCH 61

[wanton valley]

dark and darker stat shift

make the value of base stats higher by multiplying by 10 while keeping them equal to what they are now for example

having 10 strength would = 1 strength

so a white padded tunic would now have 50 strength but it would still be = to having 5 strength

this would make it so a blue padded tunic could have 60 strength or the equivalent of 6 strength

effectively increasing the base stat change between tears by .5 strength closing the gap of gear diff while still adding a edge to players wearing higher quality gear

[wanton valley]

what if we all just switch to it

[inland terrace]

Its on patch 61. They need to update it

[wanton valley]

nah we can all just play patch 61

[dry harbor]

Garbage operators, cheating players are not banned, and ordinary players are randomly banned

[austere bramble]

I think that should bring back buff and debuff dura it was useful

[wintry flume]

What if they adopted the approach they took with visored barbuta helm for armor, how it has a little bit of action speed on it. They could make it so blue is <x> number and then purple is the same exact <x> number but also has a tiny % on it. So that way it's still an upgrade but the tiers between gear aren't split so much. This way blues for example aren't BIS over purple 95% of the time.

[vestal cloud]

this game is not feeling fun at all latley

[paper venture]

BS, new patch is fire

[sage dagger]

@keen onyx @dawn grotto TLDR; Gear score logic and squashing gear stats will NOT solve the new player experience.

Due to the punishing nature and high learning curve of DaD PvP, a new player will lose to a 1000+ hour player 10/10, and it won't be close. Even if gear was removed completely, this would remain true. Confronted with this reality and the current state of the game, new players are only rewarded in the current game loop by avoiding PvP at all costs, endlessly killing mobs and ratting for static extracts. When they eventually are forced into a PvP engagement or seek one out themselves, they will undoubtedly lose hours of progress in a matter of seconds, a devastating feeling I'm sure we are all aware of.

This is a horrifically terrible onboarding experience, and has only become more and more prevelant in the games short lifetime, as the average skill of the playerbase increases overtime, just like countless hardcore PvP games before it. In many fruitless attempt to solve this issue of new player retention, Ironmace is stuck in a loop of endless balance changes, gear squashing, and radical changes to the fundamental game loop.

However, these ill-advised changes only serve to alienate the majority of the playerbase, take away from the "hardcore extraction" risk and reward dynamic that enamoured hundreds of thousands in the first place, and distract from actual game development.

As I see it, the solution to this problem is structuring and developing the game's content in a way where new players and experienced players are driven to different queue's. Therefore simultaneously, new players have a fair and rewarding chance at improving at both PvE and PvP, and experienced players are encouraged to grind and given engaging opportunities to compete with players at their skill level.

[wintry flume]

ATTENTION IRONMACE

What if we adopted the approach we took with visored barbuta helm for armor, how it has a little bit of action speed on it. We could make it so blue is <x> number and then purple is the same exact <x> number but also has a tiny % on it. So that way it's still an upgrade but the tiers between gear aren't split so much. This way blues for example aren't BIS over purple 95% of the time.

[strange sluice]

While the changes to the game did even out the playing field so that non geared players have a better chance against geared players, it completely removed the creative discretion of the players as well as what the community thinks is the spirit of the game. Most of us were expecting a looter-extraction game with fun pvp and pve. Getting good gear with good rolls was the dopamine giving many of us reason to play the game. Gear became a whole lot more lackluster and making fun builds is denied by the removable of what is considered 'unwanted' gear rolls. All gear has the same base stats and there is a lot less reward for playing the game which now seems to be more of a battle royal than a looter extraction. Not only that, the removal of certain rolls made some classes even weaker than they were before the patch. As a bard player, I know that many of our songs got messed up since the mem cap rolls were removed. I believe it was not intentional the make bard weaker but it also makes it seem like these updates were not thought through regardless of how much work I believe IM does to satisfy the community.

Putting everyone in a level playing field also made it so that no one is really unique. I completely understand that the decision that have been made may have been strongly influenced by how the Korean servers are played. I also understand that IM is entitled to making the game that IM wants to and we are not entitled for Ironmace to follow our every vent in the server. However the end of the day is the market follows both consumer demand as well as the developer's vision. Most of us do not understand what IM's vision for the game is which I believe is one of the reasons why the community has such loud outcries against the patches that recently been implemented. TKK is now extremely short due to Barbarians be immensely stronger than other melee engagement classes as well as Ranger doing 1/3 of players health with one arrow due to the health changes + gear changes.

[slate vine]

I actually am done with this game, they say they're rebuffing higher tier gear so there is some difference, get back on and my bis crafted items have been nerfed, for the second time in a row, frostlight cape is now LITERALLY 2 AGI LMAO going to go play ranger on norms like the good ole days now that it's op again, RIP Dark and Darker, only Jesus will bring salvation- Light and Lighter

[signal moth]

What if they added a perk to make duelist rogue more viable?

Lose 5 dexterity and 5 resourcefulness while gaining 5 vigor, 3 strength and 2 will

As well as another perk:

When combining the attack combinations of your primary and secondary weapons, gain 5 physical power and 5% action speed; cannot go invisible when this perk is equipped

[wintry flume]

ATTENTION IRONMACE

What if we adopted the approach we took with visored barbuta helm for armor, how it has a little bit of action speed on it. We could make it so blue is <x> number and then purple is the same exact <x> number but also has a tiny % on it. So that way it's still an upgrade but the tiers between gear aren't split so much. This way blues for example aren't BIS over purple 95% of the time.

[valid loom]

why does wind locket have a range of values based on rank when most other equipment does not anymore

[glacial sphinx]

all jewelry does

[valid loom]

right now windlocket armor value is a range, yes now on 69-1 all jewelry scales but it seems weird that this would scale and have a range of stats where most other equipment doesnt have a range anymore outside of rolls
green 10-12
blue 13-16
purple 17-20
orange 21-24

[glacial sphinx]

other stats are a much smaller value, like 1/2/3/4 so ranges make less sense I don't mind the windlocket having small variance too much

[valid loom]

im talking in comparison to the stat it gives, obv attributes wouldnt be a range in a rank

for most items armor goes up by 1 per rank on the current patch and there isnt a range yet there is on this just seems weird it doesnt follow the same design philosophy

[prisma shadow]

Press W and Left Click and let the gear do the work for you I guess.

You would get more prolonged fights and more opportunities to outwit your opponent instead of it becoming a kite fest with hitting someone and then backing away```

[jagged cargo]

Could still tweak armor, magic resist, and maybe a damage per level on weapons, but over all im loving 69 and 69-1. Sooo good for us casuals. I can even do hr without a entrance fee or armor requirement, so I can practice. Gear still matters, but it's so much more on skill and I love it. Great for casuals, great for timmies, great for new players. Thanks @keen onyx @dawn grotto @full tulip

[rugged summit]

Exactly. Glad to see someone is also enjoying this change as much as me. A lot of my old friends i played with in the playtests, and the first season, are back and loving the game again.

[sullen gulch]

its sad that most people dont understand the patch and why they did it. and just whine in discord all day

[glacial sphinx]

Yeah 69-1 honestly is better than 68 was. I would say weak the numbers a tiny bit more and add new crafts for the stats that were removed like buff duration and its going to be a nice step forward. Probably biggest issue for me right now is PVP vs bows/crossbows feels a bit bad with this TTK.

[rugged summit]

it's actually funny that haven't seen anyone point out that the hysteria we've been seeing is actually dopamine withdrawal. It's not a joke or insult. The pshycology behind looter extract games is a constant dopamine, adrenaline combo. Dopamine from finding awesome stuff (basically gambling) and adrenaline from having to risk/defend it.

These are well known tricks in game design to get the player engaged. When they nerfed they gear, they basically reduced the possible reward form the gambling aspect of the game. People are literally not getting the same amount of dopamine they normally get, and it definitely feels like shit for them.

This has happened before. There were so many people complaining about gear being meaningless when they were still messing with the True damage values, and the +All modifier.

In a week, people will have adjusted to the new baseline.

[inland terrace]

UPDATE THE TEST SERVER FOR FUCK SAKE

[rugged summit]

yeah, they need to use that server way more. Don't know why the hell they have if they don't use it.

[halcyon flame]

Why would there be a range for other jewelry. Wind locket is an exception because it has larger numbers and 1 point has less of an impact

[short sorrel]

I've seen plenty of perfectly legitimate suggestions where the different grades of gear would have a slightly altered spread of stats, white at +3, green at +3 with a roll, etc. This would be better with the removal of less desirable stats. I just cannot understand why they went so overboard with the stat squish

[inland terrace]

The test server was initially made as a cash grab so people would buy hold the line and early access packs. Its about time they use the TEST SERVER for TESTING

Like for fuck sake the test server is patch 61. What lazy shit devs

[hollow torrent]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🅾️ 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭 6️⃣ 8️⃣

[sullen gulch]

Why cant people understand that all stats HAD to be the SAME for a baseline of power.
i mean it is written in the patch notes, people cant read...

[rugged summit]

If i remember correctly, that server was created by before they released on steam, your assesment is false.

[inland terrace]

Server was made before steam. Long before steam. It was however 100% used as marketing for hol and also the paid early access. Irregardless of the release date. It has a purpose and they fact that they dont use it for its express purpose is sad and embarrasing for them. Sdf could avoid all this slander on his name if he just pushed for free test server access for all and updated there first instead of live

[rugged summit]

Lol no shit. People are all shocked, go read @keen onyx's comments from the past 5-6 patches. He clearly lays out what the problem is, and what's going to be fixed.

They needed to create a base-line that was consistent across the board.

Before these changes, there were multiple versions of each class that they had to consider for balancing. IM not talking about playstyles either. Im talking about the fact that Wizard in Green gear was essentially an entirely different class than Wizard in Purple gear.

That made this game virtually unablancable.

[inland terrace]

Like who the fuck actually thought squire hr qould be a good idea other than preteaming chinese nerds

[rugged summit]

Yeah it was a nit-pick on my part. Im not pleased about them not using the test server as much as they should.

[sullen gulch]

we both know they would get little to zero data that way. do you want to wait half a year for a patch?

[rugged summit]

The HR ante is definitely going to come back

[sullen gulch]

Dude you just made my day i rly started to think i am wrong bcs everybody keeps whining.

[rugged summit]

Lol me too. i was losing my mind.
#📢announcements message

like go read this, and tell me he didn't make it very clear where this was going

[inland terrace]

No i want sdf to schedule it. 1 month or 2 weeks of testing and feedback then a partial push of approved content until they can work out kinks in what people dont like. Im sick of excuses. Fuck your player counts and queue times and who cares if patches 2 months inbetween as long as they are properly tested and everyone loves them. Wouldnt you rather have big content and good patches bi monthly than this shitfest every week

[sullen gulch]

I like the fact that they stopped listening to the creator discord
i have faith in sdf vision and the way he layed out his plans

[restive lake]

Make weapons have STATIC damage, why does my fucking epic dagger is either 23 or 24 weapon damage ? MAKE IT STATIC

[inland terrace]

I think they should do polls. Every damn day there should be someone whos only job is to tell people whats happening on the roadmap and also ask if its liked or not.

[sullen gulch]

People just did not read it and it is actually sad

[inland terrace]

You think after watching 40,000 prople fuck off from your game in a year and also 3000 negative reviews in 6 hours would tell you YOUR FUCKIN UP SDF

[sullen gulch]

thats what they did, just with the streamers, look how it tunred out

[turbid iron]

Dude are you surprised? No one reads anything lmao people just see pixels change in a game and whine because they are children

[rugged summit]

Go read tha announcment link. I swear people just aren't paying attention

[sullen gulch]

it is insane that they keep talking back even when you lay the facts in their face
the german chat is the worst rn these guys rly have zero clue and cry so loud

[proven patrol]

new patch is a absolute win, hr is fun again

[inland terrace]

I read the entire announcement. also the messages where sdf said he wants loot progression but removes looting aspects. Also the message where he said "im sorry you feel that way" to the people asking for change. I could care less what any of the devs say at this point because i know they dont care what we say. even in mass numbers we cant get a point across to these fools. its not fair for the pvp player to have no endgame and its not fair for the casual to not have loads of greens and stuff to sell so they can actually buy things without fighting bosses/doing hr

[proven patrol]

only neck beard grinders are winging, absolute w. Went from gatekept hr to actual skill based hr

[rugged summit]

I want you to consider what it is you just said..... This game released on it's own platform (Blacksmith). The minimum price at the time was $35 USD. They had WELL OVER 100k (Confirmed by devs) sales.

Where did the thos epeople go? Well if you've been around you'll know that the biggest complaint over the past 1.5 years has been gear diff. Sot here are litterally HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of owners who stopped playing this game, because they found it to frustrating to play alongside people who would farm for the best gear right away, and then just dumpster on everyone beacuse they bought god-power.

As an anecdote, 5 of my friends are playing this game after nearly 8 months of not touching it. and they are having a blast. These are the peopl who introduce me to the game at the beggining of PT2. They came back after i told them about the changes.

[sullen gulch]

this message you just send summed up that if you rly read it. you did not understand it

[proven patrol]

Big time, in hr we would get spawn wiped every game, now we can actually fight back. A ton of my friends are getting back in.

[sullen gulch]

Yeah and i am hyped to see how the patches will progress. it is actually fun to play again
i have also played even before the torrent version and the game is the most fun it ever was rn

[proven patrol]

been in since first play test, this is the best hr experience for sure. Ive even hit demi before and this is a massive w. gear diff was way to extreme before.

[sullen gulch]

And you can also see how many people came back to the game
hundreds are saying they quit yet player counts mostly the same if not a little lower

[proven patrol]

were mid wipe, these numbers are typical

[sullen gulch]

i myselft quit bevor ice cave came out stat checking every raid was just not fun
maybe for a couple games but it gets dull fast

[inland terrace]

I fully get where your coming from but i see it differently. The casual player needs to have an advantage gear wise over the sweat or else the sweat wins every fight. People cant learn to pvp or pve and they just leave the game because of imbalanced nonsense. There is no solution thats why i havent suggested one. If you make all gear equal the sweat wins because he performs better with same gear. And if you make the gear too differing in quality than people will farm whats good and kill the noobs who dont know better. If there was a tutorial/pve mode or if arena was on free to play then player retention woukd be much higher. The way i see it. The timmy doesnt wanna use good gear anyways because of gear fear but the more you try to make that problem go away the worse you make the problem of sweat squires ruining timmys first 3 raids.

I tried to get my little brother (15) into the game. He quit after 5 games because he thought the pacing was weird and that pve/pvp systems were too split and not trying to be the same game

Pretty much sums up new player experience.

Get game

Get smacked

Get off game

Try again

Get smacked again

Uninstall because game doesnt even let you make more than 1 character for free and you cant access 75% of the game.

How the fuck does ironmace expect the game to last another year when theyre driving veterans away whilst making it impossible for noobs to learn

Shooting yourself in foot and pouring salt simulator

[sullen gulch]

They never planned on having this many players so early on anyway

to be honest i dont think they care if even a majority would leave
its is still early early access

[inland terrace]

Sucks for them theres tens of thousands of inactive accs because of these shenanigans. Just make the game like patch 60 ish and everything will be fine. Maybe also add training/pve dungeons for learning

[sullen gulch]

and they will all come back when it start to narmalize again

[inland terrace]

Early acces is just a buzzword used to drum up attention. This game isnt early access. Its 2 fucking years old

[sullen gulch]

but i am done with talking to wall for the day. i wish you all an awesome night
last update today. heard about the huge game Rust
check up its developpment span
you dont know what you are talking about

[inland terrace]

You as well:)

[valid loom]

maybe return bard instrument attribute scaling since we gave it back to rings/necklaces/cloaks? there isnt much useful rolls anymore since only two are weapons and we lost interaction speed and buff duration rolls?

[dense glade]

trash this whole idea bro just throw it away get rid of whatever the hell you smokin and revert man aint no peepol playin the game

[quick meteor]

🇸 🇩 🇫 🙏🇮 🇸 🇬 🇪 🇳 🇮 🇺 🇸 💗

[inland terrace]

please revert. And also start using the test server for these things. I know people say nobody uses it but thats because its on patch 61. When will yiu start properly using the resources you have at your disposal @keen onyx

[rugged summit]

This season likely won't see much gain in player-base. If they continue with these changes, and move forward on this path, the game will be in a MUCH BETTER state this time NEXT YEAR.

[patent mauve]

Let everyone use hunting traps, make them have a min 20 resourcesfulness requirement like, invis potions 15 knowledge

[prisma shadow]

Nerf Longbow Armor penetration

[rugged summit]

That might be interesting actually. They should also make traps "Erode" they get rusty if they've been there too long. they become less effective the more corroded they are. they slowly lose damage, and eventually they lose the skill-check, finally after a certain amount of time, they just fall apart and break

[patent mauve]

Time limit on traps is okay with me, 3 minutes sound good?

[ivory quartz]

Nah, as much as I would like to use them as a rogue main, Hunting traps are OP as is, and will only cause further balance issues to let other classes use them.

[patent mauve]

Uhh that's the point

They are OP? So why haven't they been fixed, probably because they're not in 8/9 classes hands.

Invis potions were in barbarians hands for like 1 months if that, now they can't open them without a parents help

[glacial sphinx]

Trap cc time should be ~3 seconds, trap itself should last 2 minutes then disappear. And if you place more than 3 the first one should as well

[tranquil tiger]

Hello!
Ok, hear me out...
The red name system needs a change. Only allow your own teammates to kill you without any punishment if you have a deep red name. Light red names are just too easy to get and too hard get rid of. Now listen... yes I am guilty of having 1 char with a (light) red name and its fk'ing stupid that I have to face the same consequences like a deep red name. Let me explain... there are ppl who literally troll and dont move at a spawn so u r stuck if u dont kill him, there are druids griefing the whole round in chicken form not changing once, there are mistakes in a chaotic fight and then there are just di'heads that u might argue with and will give u a thumbs down. All of that doesnt deserve a red name. But all it takes is 3-4 downvotes and boom, u r light red. Now u have to beg for thumbs up to get rid of it, cause usually ppl really like to forget or dont give a f*** about upvoting some random guy, but downvoting, oh boy, ppl really like that. I just carried 2 timmies through bosses (killed the bosses for them solo) and at the loot pile they killed me and I can not punish them in any way. Thats literally just not fair.

• Deep red name should get their own queue and only match with other red names.
• Teammates who kill a light red name should still be punishable by at least a downvote/teamkill vote.
• Getting a red name should at least take 10 downvotes. Toxic ppl, trolls and teamkillers will end up with a deep red name very quickly anyway.
  @keen onyx @dawn grotto

[coral viper]

10 downvotes is crazy low in isolation. Should be adjusted for number of rando games and obviously praise votes (I don't know what the current system is).

That said, pretty exploitable. I'm pretty new and my IRL friends and I just upvote each other because we only ever really play together. May make some sense to limit the rep you can get from one person, positive or negative. And yes we all had blue names at like lvl 30 brand new to the game. Wasn't trying to exploit it, just thought it was cute having no understanding of the system at the time. But definitely exploitable

[karmic crag]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🅾️ 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭 6️⃣ 8️⃣

[teal wraith]

The community is gonna keep raging until you rollback, if you wanna save your game as of right now that's the only option.

Take time to ask your community why almost everyone thinks it's universally shit. Then this is the hard part.... ACTUALLY LISTEN AND ACKNOWLEDGE THE COMMUNITY.

I know it's rough but we are hitting pre steam release numbers in 3 days and your reviews are plummeting, you are out of options. People have lost faith in @keen onyx because he has yet to accurately and intelligently explain his "vision". When a leader can't lead there is an issue. I'm not trying to just shit on sdf I'm stating facts.

Don't kill the game we love, failing to understand that the reason the game was addicting was bc of risk vs reward has become a fatal issue.

Feel free to copy this if you support the message.

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🅾️ 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭 6️⃣ 8️⃣

[valid loom]

can we not have rng on attributes for rings, cloaks and neklaces, seems contradictory to the idea that higher rarity is supposed to be better when i get a green with a good roll and +1 to a stat, then a blue of the same with +1 and two trash rolls
if you dont want to have large amounts of attributes you could instead make accessories associated with other stats, or a combination of stats.

[austere bramble]

Steam charts would like to disagree with you

[dense glade]

no they def agree with me sorry if numbers are hard for you or smtn

[austere bramble]

Ah yes nearly 9k concurrent ( only on steam) players is no one

[dense glade]

go ahead and check a week ago timothy

[austere bramble]

My point still stands people are playing the game
Sure it’s less then last week but 9k are still playing

[dense glade]

you didnt have a point you just woke up and wanted to die on a random hill. the number is still declining obtain a grip

[tribal belfry]

If they do restore to patch 68 they should give bear form and more weapons base armor pen

[austere bramble]

No my point was many people are still playing
Less than last week sure but still people are playing

[tribal belfry]

There’s a 1/3 less ppl playing than there was last week at peak hours

[onyx citrus]

Most of the people playing aren't veteran players, but the F2P bc the game has gotten significantly easier to pick up, but for the veteran players the point of this game was the hardcore aspect of it, which is kind of slipping away now.

[crude hill]

Am i the only one who goblin merchant always return his whole gear set? And if that is not the case, what is the point of not losing my items?

[raw fractal]

It's actually wild how many people we've lost over the year the game has been fully out. I've been playing since play tests, and you'd expect people to leave, but we've had so many players over these months and we lose so many of them. It feels shit to play the game, and the community is getting more and more frustrated as the same or similar problems from many months ago, still plague us to this day. But if you think this game can live off a 9k and declining playerbase, that's great, I wish I could be happy in ignorance with you

[raw fractal]

it means your loot isnt worth taking (if youre dying to players)

[crude hill]

So it is consistent

Even if it is not worth for other players it was for me and removes the frustration and engagement of losing my items to farm them again from the game.

[raw fractal]

A big portion of the players enjoy playing with kits that are worth taking

[crude hill]

So you are telling me that i am the only one and this is not the rule? That is exacly what i was asking first.

[haughty lichen]

Slotted gear and gems give passive abilities like hp recovery/ explosive armour that damages the attacker if hit (like demon dog collar) etc. better quality gear holds more gems. Enabling base stats to stay the same but still give a slight edge to better gear.

Would make PvP encounters unique every time

And make looting worthwhile

[molten peak]

depends on the players, classes and how good your gear is. I find I always get most of my rogue stuff back in duo and trio, cause nobody wants fucking rogue stuff and it doesnt sell great but if im on ranger or druid most of decent stuff is taken.

[crude hill]

Even so i don't think it should be consistent even if they didn't take it.

[dense glade]

bring decent stuff in and people will take it

[onyx citrus]

Make test server free and impliment changes there before putting em on live servers

[dense glade]

it is free no? ive been told its free now.

[austere bramble]

Is it?

[dense glade]

it doesnt require founders edition anymore so im told, which was one of the selling point for the founders edition

it also hasnt been updated since august apparently lmao

[onyx citrus]

last update was multiclass or something like that, they should do every big update there before putting it on main server imo it would make the game much better

[tidal lake]

Mem cap and buff Duration being gone when bards, wizards, druids and rogue and wizard all used them

But thank God we kept max health ones for that extra 1-2 hp after every class lost 15 hp. And now with gear change I would easily swap 4str item for 2-3 str with mem cap. Now everything is 5 and if I wanna use my extra spells I gotta swap 5 str for 5 knowledge when I only need 3 mem cap

I wouldn't care if the hp stats were also removed. But it's irritating that 1.2% hp bonus was worthwhile but those two weren't?

[onyx current]

Imagine removing mem cap but keeping redundant stats like hp and %hp (the later which isnt remotely close to as good as flat hp) and now its nerfed even further

Say you rolled 2%, you needed 200hp for it to equate 4hp. You used to be able to roll 4-6hp flat, and 200 hp wasnt something you achieved easily. Just remove redundant stats woulda been enough

[austere bramble]

They need to add back buff and debuff cuz a bunch of classes used them

[onyx current]

Id combine the 2 tbh. Then itd really be a stat worth looking at for everyone

Would make for a nice interaction in the sense that building it createst a build. Not building it into your gear makes you vulnerable versus certain of those builds. An actual choice to make

[sullen gulch]

I am so sad that sdf starts to listen to the children again. Game keeps doing the same
Devs try a balancing patch, user don't understand the patch patch gets somewhat reverted and game is worse than before patch, it happend 2 times alrdy

[austere bramble]

What were the other 2?The warlock changes of 67?

[coral heron]

I agree, SDF needs to make his vision, not what ppl complain at him with no idea of what he is trying to accomplish.

[sullen gulch]

One more person who has read the patch notes. and not stopped after the first paragraph, good to see

[tranquil tiger]

I mean I agree with you, I just threw a number in the room, the fine adjustment is obviously on IM side, since they have all the details/numbers available

[coral heron]

same to you brother, good to see ppl with legit and adult understanding!

[glacial sphinx]

Yep, lot more worried about the next patch now than I was before

[sullen gulch]

i am getting flasbacks to sdf listening to streamers and making the game unplayable

[coral heron]

Imagine the nerv of ppl who think they can tell a game maker what game to make, and how stupid the game maker is for following HIS dream. To think that this guy owes you after he has put EVERYTHING at risk, leveraging everything he can, leaving Nexon to start his own thing, spending his savings, taking out loans, being sued, still making a game, and all everyone does is complain at him no matter what he does. Seriously the nerv of ppl who think they get to tell him what game to make and how to make it. like make suggestions, but he doesn't have to make the game you want, he gets to make the game he wants, after everything he has done he gets his dream. If you don't like it go make your own game...

[coral heron]

right, needs to be made for the casual, the common man, the Timmy, and the new player. if you make a game for the sweats, grinders, and the streamers the game is cooked. games survive of the common man, not the vocal few

[sullen gulch]

I mostly love the people that say early access is no exuse. like they have never heard of games like rust/ 7 days to die

[sullen gulch]

could not have said it better. @keen onyx you should read these messages and not general chat.

[coral heron]

LMAO right?? I have been playing 7 days for 6 years now, changes are just the name of development processes. Children just don't seem to understand early access, fair balance for the player base, or that game makers visions are always better than games made by committee and that you need to let people make their game

[sullen gulch]

but 2 years is to long for early access these people say. while sdf himself said they have a rougly 10 year development plan

[coral heron]

thank you good sir, very glad to find ppl who have a reasonable understanding are willing to speak up =).

[coral heron]

lmao, right, thinking that game from year 1 will be same as game at year 10 is hilarious, this is gonna have a lot of iterations lol

[steep jacinth]

Sad to see that the game dies here. No thrill in pvping anymore since everybody is running squire..

[tidal lake]

I'm glad hes willing to change it BUT I don't think the gear check gap should be as big as it was though. Controversial take I'm sure. But low 126ers shouldn't be fighting 450+ gs who are too scared to go into hr. "BUT MUH GEARR" but only use that gear to farm timmies who are at a massive handicap.

The obvious fix would be make more brackets, that way the 126 player doesn't even see the 500+ who is too scared to step out of normals where they die to mobs and get punished for not fighting people that might stand a chance, but we don't have the player base to support multiple brackets and multiple lobbies across multiple regions. The majority would be dead lobbies.

We could do anything over 200 HAS to go into hr. Sure, not all classes benefit equally, some really are gear reliant and others just need a good weapon and some jewelry to one tap and there would still be some min maxing under 200, but anyone who cried because they couldn't gear check timmies weren't upset about balance in the first place, they were mad that on a level playing field their pride might get hurt.

Gear needs an incentive to be farmed, but we can do that without just making it so another player cannot fight back.

[supple lark]

are they returning new things ?

[glacial sphinx]

I dont think they should go back to brackets. Make squire 3 or 4 and then give it +1 every two tiers from there. Its still kinda squished but you keep progression

[hasty flare]

@keen onyx @dawn grotto If you guys do some shitty hotfix again instead of patch revert, all the negative steam reviews will be permanent and it will be YOUR FAULT

When you spit in the communities face, the community spits back

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🅾️ 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭 6️⃣ 8️⃣

[austere bramble]

Ffs when will people stop complaining
Just be happy that u cried hard enough to make the devs change it at all

[tidal lake]

This is a reply to someone else I gave in another discord on this topic, they also asked what the point of hr ever was. (Fairly newer player)

The draw for hr used to be that a. It got you you're ranked rewards
B. It was where you found the really powerful gear
C. The mobs were harder, new attacks and such (most people hide in normals and cheese most pve that's remotely difficult.
The player base doesn't feel big enough to have more brackets and again after steam trolling that 80% likely won't go reverse even if they get what they clutched pearls about so new players are gonna be hard to come by. It can be a hard-core dungeon crawler without relying on stat checking timmies. The gear should have different reasons to seek it besides trying to reach a one tap threshold when some classes can do it easily, some need full purples and blues. And some. Just lack the ability to one tap all together
This can be done with sockets and gems that augment stats, animations, or even fundamentals of how skills work. Like turning restore into an upfront heal if they choose to.
The epics and legendaries in squire normal chests is the exact same "well farming gear doesn't matter" problem, except it let people find stuff they never would have had the balls to actually dive hr crypts to go get it, so because it made them happy it didn't MATTER that it was worthless and removed all sense of reward.

Squire gear should be toned down, but not reset to 1-2. It could go to 3-4 and still give people reason to go deeper for the truly good stuff

[tidal lake]

I think that 500+ gs people who are scared to play the game with a challenge are silly
After 225 gs you should be locked out of normals and forced to be in the big boy hr matches. There's no reason I should have a 440 gs and get paired with 125s
Half these people loved to claim "skill issue" while hiding out in the starter town to feel good and were freaking out when everyone had the same stats and needed "skill" to win fights (barb wiz and ranger not withstanding).

[proper shadow]

No body is talking about these gear and health changes nerfings bards like crazy, PLEASE BUFF BARD SOME HOW. Maybe give us ANY USFUL SKILL TO USE BESIDES 10 spell

[modest sentinel]

Can u make stealth into hide base ?

[strange badger]

@granite plinth @dawn grotto Increase skill expression by increasing TTK roughly back to where it was. "Being able to 1v3" was the argument you used to express that lower TTK means better skill expression.

While yes, lower TTK increases the probability that a skilled player would be able to express their skill by pulling off a win against multiple opponents, it also makes small random variables more impactful on the outcome of a fight. Things like a less skilled player being able to place a single good hit, or catching the skilled player off-guard, become so much more influential on the fight's conclusion.

While I believe it is more likely a skilled player can win a 1v3 with lower TTK, I also believe the greater impact of random variables with TTK being as low it is makes it less likely for a more skilled player to win a 1v1, and less likely for a more skilled team to win a 3v3. As such I think that instead of thinking of lower or higher TTK as having more or less skill expression, I think it should be recognized that there is a balance of both reducing and increasing various elements of skill expression when moving TTK in either direction.

My personal opinion is that right now TTK is too low and that there are too many frustrating random variables that make the expression of skill feel less impactful than it did. Take my opinion with a grain of salt as I will admit I haven't played since hotfix 68, but as much as I lack my own experience with the current hotfixes I did have extensive experience with previous low-TTK patches and dropped the game in the past for most of a year in response to not enjoying landmine meta.

To SDF, I understand lower TTK may fit your vision for the game because it opens up the possibility of winning 1v3s; but as a developer I'm sure you understand that a change will typically have consequences aside from the intended ones, and it is important to recognize and consider what those consequences are.

[rustic cairn]

@keen onyx What the @strange badger said is also in my opinion, correct.

There is an issue with the gear stats and on that front, the changes made the aquiring gear pointless and transformed the game into a Deathmatch of sorts. The balance here is hard to achieve and I will not criticize it at all as I think testing is the best way to achieve a fun state.

What I think even more people are annoyed by, and again this is my opinion, is the low TTK. It translates into very short fights that can be won with no interaction from the other party, that becomes an issue very quickly for both veterans and casuals/beginners.

If the vision is to create an ultra hardcore experience, this is it, low TTK, it makes the game feel like a Tarkov where you die very quickly and if you aren't experienced, you are playing a multiplayer experience by yourself because you don't participate in the fights.

Hotfix 68 made me put up to twice the amont of hours I already had since you guys started selling the game in your website. The longer TTK made it so even if I die in a fight because I was outclassed or even gear checked, I felt my participation in it and that made it much more interesting, I actually became a much better DnD player in Hotfix 68 as the larger HP and <24 gear lobbies allowed to experience longer fights and learn from mistakes instead of dying at the first mistep.

The backlash is so huge for this patch because instead of a big change, 2 were made at the same time and most players will simply have a bad experience and not know how to pin point where there discomfort comes from, if it's the lower TTK, the gear equalization or even both.

I suggest you guys try one change, see the reception and then the other. Both at the same time became too much to digest specially when we went from the longest TTK to the lowest TTK.

I firmly believe the gear equalization with some more adjusting and a longer TTK will have the best result for the game balance. It will require some good math and game feel but I believe.

Hope you read this,
Truly yours,
Stan
I mean, Desesperance

@dawn grotto @full tulip You guys in on it too, no one left behind, but sdf is taking the bullets atm xD

@shy fulcrum @gentle blade Make sure this reaches the higher ups I hate writing :v, I work at Customer Support

[austere bramble]

Bards do not need a buff

[austere bramble]

No offence but what is the point of pinging the devs they aren’t going to look at your post specifically above all others

[rugged summit]

I hear a lot of complaints about the Low TTK, yet once the TTK goes back up, the complaints will about 3rd partying. when it takes 2-3 minutes a for a team to fight, another team is for sure going to hear it, and 3rd party. 3rd partying is frustrating but ultimately something that's just part of this kind of game. It's valid.

I would also like to say that I really hope they keep the base attributes flat across the board, EXCEPT for legendries, and uniques, which should be beast-mode.

You can only bring legendries in HR anyways, so the Ledgy kit kids will have their own space still.

[strange badger]

Very good point about third partying here.

[rugged summit]

Easy for me to make this point, because we've been through this multiple times now since this game started. XD

[austere bramble]

U can bring legendaries into normals just only uniques in hr

[rugged summit]

This community needs to take a deep breath though.

You've got the gambling addicts complaining about their dopamine withdrawal, because the stat lines from gear don't get their heart racing like they used to.

The wannabe E-sports players are mad because they're dying more without their gear crutch.

Everyone is losing their mind because base kit, is strong now... imagine that....What incentive would all these people have to keep base-kit super weak in comparison to high-end gear?

[rustic cairn]

I think it's the biggest problem right now, I'm not saying make everyone a a sponge but Hotfix68 felt really nice and the third partying happens in low TTK and high TTK, the chance gets higher the longer the fights of couse but the same can be said in low TTK.

I've had many matches end from third party in both patches but its more a spawn location thing in most cases or going the hotspot of the map.

Added for your new message: I like that the base kit is this strong, but I also think for it to work best, there is a need for more flex items with split stats so you can mix and match builds with more diversity.

I do enjoy being able to have a base kit change my build considerably instead of being a minor change at best like before :3

[rugged summit]

It felt decent to players who knew this game. I've been around a while, there are no surprising meta's anymore, there aren't really things that can make this game feel terrible, becaus i like it too much. I'm thinking about the people who play this game casually.

The Casual player matters everyone. There aren't enough of us Hardcore chads to keep a game alive. This goes for literally EVERY SINGLE ONLINE GAME. Once the hardcore players start mastering the game, they lock out newer, more casual players.

Good players kill video games, this has been a problem in online games for over a decade now.

[austere bramble]

That’s why titanfall 2 still hasn’t gotten a sequel

[mild breach]

Maybe with low ttk the Chance of third Party is lower but the impact is much higher. When i Land a fireball, crossbow or sth. else while u are fighting, there is no chance to recover at all with so small health pools

[coral heron]

Amen. 69 and 69-1 were for the casual, the Timmy, the common man, and the new guy, they are necessary for the game to be able to survive for its 10 year road map. you want a super sweaty game? great expect it to die.

[lethal zodiac]

Hot take: Patch is good but barb didnt need the movespeed and the health nerfs need to be reverted we got more dmg already, no need to shrink the health, infact i would add 30 health total to all classes 😄 not barb they dont need it

[coral heron]

yes to barb not needing the MS, yes to a health revert, cant quite say 30, maybe 10+ instead of back to 15. agree with ya here brother

[rugged summit]

I don't disagree with that either. Fights are a little faster than I would hope. Clerics are basically gone in trios. replaced by health pots an surge kits. So still needs some work.

This game NEEDS to have some balance for people who can't aquire gear. and anyone who thinks because they play more, and so they should keep their hard-eraned advantage over the timmies is toxic, and will be the reason the game dies. I've got 2600hrs I should be one of those people, why am i able to fall into that mentality.... honestly no clue.

But i see what's happening. The high-end players are slowly turning this game into a spectator sport. They want a small arena where only the BEST get to play, and everyone else watches

[rustic cairn]

I'm a middle ground player, I play since they started selling the game and participated in 1 of the playtests.

I have 500 hours since then and stopped playing a dozen of times because the game felt too hardcore, and I still think it is in some regards like some of the quests being so up to chance it can be a major roadblock (this season for me were the mimic tooth, I couldn't get one for the love of god).

Dying in 2 hits and not participating is not for timmies, it's even more hardcore. What this patch had for timmies was the gear equilization and in that regard, it worked wonders for them and in a way me.

I hated looting because it was always low tier equipment with bad rolls, now if I loot I stand to aquire interesting equipment (except that the changes were to racial IMO) and at the very least, loads of money because I actually get good treasure instead if poor ancient scrolls xD

For the casuals all you need is enjoyable gameplay (which i think higher TTK achieves as neither paty dies in the first exchange or from 3 well placed arrows to the chest), the feeling that lootting is important or at least fills ur coffers and questing doesn't require you to be lucky (rare drops from rare mobs roadblocking or even killing a boss that requires a 40 minute run for a 1/3 chance to fight him).

IN regards to ur recent message to @mild breach , higher ttk can be achieved while not having requiring people to get gear. Take this patch, if you gave everyone +15 hp instead and left the current damage / armor values, no one would need to gear and still would be able to enjoy fights.

Of course then the issue is gear progression but that can be fixedafter as it impacts the hardcore users more than timmies IMO

[mild breach]

I really like the Idea to force Players into hr when u reach a certain gear Score. Only Problem are the free to Play Players who wouldnt be able to Play hr. I also Like the increased Stats on squire so more classes are viable with no gear at all. I just want to have higher ttk back and i would be happy. The gear in 69-1 is find in my opinion.

[copper cairn]

you cant have no gear being just as good a 10k kit or everyone goes in with nothing and pvp will only loose gear for you you wont gain anything

[rustic cairn]

Per definition, I'd think kind of casual hahahahaha with only 500 hours since August 7, 2023

I only play this game and single-players since last yer basically...

PD: Enjoyable conversation thus far, it's easy to only see ones views on the matter :3

[mild breach]

Personally i would like to Go back to Patch 68 gear wise but i also think all classes should function in squire gear. A 10k Kit is no where near squire strengh even when it was much stronger before. But i have to say the Game just feels weird to me at the Moment and i feel Like i Need to Play classes that Counter the Barbs and Rangers which Are still say too Strong in m opinion.

[coral heron]

preach

[coral heron]

its about Timmys dyeing more for skill reasons then gear reasons. it is easier for a casual to upgrade skill then farm gear. this is a souls like, dyeing is important, as long as it is for the right reasons, the right kind of death is a learning experience, wrong way just feels bad

[teal zealot]

can the drawbridge exit window be fully closed because i thought that the window was an exit just now just to realize a little to late that the window was just an exit from life instead

[strange badger]

I'm honestly in the middle ground when it comes to gear as well. Personally, during hotfix 68 my playground was under-25 lobbies, I like the gear being close and I'd rather spend more time trying to play the game and less time building kits. On the flip side I do see a lot of appeal in there being good gear and having that excitement when you find something great in the dungeon.

The issue I have with hotfix 69 was the TTK decrease. I am a bit veteran in the game and have put a lot of hours into it, and yeah lower TTK still works for me somewhat, but I find that the satisfying fights become less frequent for me at lower TTK.

[lethal zodiac]

I think a good way to buff cleric and keeping it in check is that their heals are not 100% instant, 50% immediate the rest is applied overtime(5 to 10 seconds), with a health buff to classes again this would feel better without breaking them, biggest problem in trios with cleric everywhere is that you would get stat checked by the pdr frontline(technically gone) and cleric pumping heals into them

[prisma shadow]

redpipola SDF Ahh "Vision" for Rangers.

BOW RANGERS

Bow rangers are the most widely played "Class" within the Ranger category; these are players that usually play Survival Bow, Recurve Bow, and Longbow.

Changes to Bow Rangers:

Each Bow shouldn't be capable of drawing indefinitely. Depending on the Bow you're using, you only have a limited amount of time until your ranger gets 'tired.' Survival Bow would have the longest draw time due to the small poundage, while the Longbow has the shortest due to its heavy draw weight. Recurve Bow would be in between.

Bows gain the ability to 'knock' an arrow, meaning the arrow stays on the string instead of the character manually loading the Bow, loosening, and returning to an 'unloaded' state. This means bows with knocked arrows would draw faster than before, but this means that any time the ranger needs to switch weapons, the ranger manually takes off the arrow and then switches.

Longbow receives a longer draw time.
Longbow's arrow velocity increased to 52 m/s
Survival Bow arrow velocity increased slightly.
Possible addition for different arrow types (?)
Recurve Bow arrow velocity increased slightly.
Bows could loosen arrows prematurely. However, doing so without drawing completely depletes the range and damage of the shot. Therefore, to benefit from full damage, drawing the Bow completely is essential, but not a requirement. This can be used to dispatch enemies at low health, at close range quickly.

CROSSBOW RANGERS

Crossbow rangers are a secondary "sub-class" of Rangers usually specializing in: Crossbow, Windlass Crossbow, and rarely, Hand Crossbow.

Changes to Crossbow Rangers:

Crossbows do not need any substantial changes, only additions that could help the category.

Crossbow bolt velocity slightly increased.
Hand Crossbow reload is increased.
Crossbow-specific skills/or allow current skills to somehow apply to Crossbows, too, for example, quick fire. This perk gives action speed to bows and doesn't have any unique animations. This should apply to Crossbows too.
Forceful Shot should apply differently with Crossbows, depending on the type of crossbow, the knockback could be more powerful.
Hand Crossbow should have a perk that synergizes with dual wielding.

[strange badger]

I think the way Desesperance put it was appropriate, there's less interaction in lower-TTK fights. It's less satisfying when you have less interaction with the fight, but it's also less satisfying when the opponent has less interaction in the fight, surprising my opponent and making the fight my win before they react isn't fun.

For timmies it can be difficult to even strive to get good at the game if they die from a single misstep and aren't allowed that many mistakes in a fight to learn from.

[prisma shadow]

Press W and Left Click and let the gear do the work for you I guess.

You would get more prolonged fights and more opportunities to outwit your opponent instead of it becoming a kite fest with hitting someone and then backing away```

[coral heron]

I can see the point, maybe add like 10 health back to all but barb lol

[prisma shadow]

Just add a simple and non complex melee system

It doesn’t have to be Mordhau level just add the ability to kick or better blocking (and benefits for achieving a block) rather than having this stale ass press w and left click ahh gameplay

[lethal zodiac]

If you think melee is pressing W and left click you have no idea how to play melee

[prisma shadow]

Seriously, I can try and block with spear and here are the two outcomes:

Player just presses W and my block does nothing, by the time I block, they are already swinging their second attack. If I block to space, guess what, they’re already pressing w, and are on my face.

Block works but I still get hit.

[prisma shadow]

‘No idea how to play melee’ yeah okay buddy, all you do is press w and left click, that’s literally the CORE play style of the game. You’re just coping.

[rustic cairn]

I don't think that dying so quickly helps anybody learn the game though... It further helps to being able to withstand a few more hits so you can learn about spacing, movement, aim, weapon types and classes.

I take example in the recent shooters, Tarkov being the closest to this genre. To get good at that game you cant simply play it more and keep on dying of a shot you know where it came from, you dont even get to actually play the game as a casual.

Same with fighting games, I started this year with Tekken 8 and if I'd die within 3 hits, I would have left the game very quickly, how am I supposed to learn blocking, side stepping and offense if each round I I can't even warm up to the fighting style.

Playing Fifa and losing after the first goal, etc...

The way to make casuals enjoy it more is allowing them to interact with other players for longer and something I completly forgot, add a Training Room where you can invite someone and respawn after each death or make a simple AI so they can practice with.

And I don't think Hardcore players would get much better from this practice room as most of them have mastered the combat at this point and making timmies better would benefit them much more than Hardcore players min maxing their combat prowess

[coral heron]

I can see the point and agree to a degree, i was more in reference to gear dif with that comment, my bad for being off the subject in terms of which part was being referenced.

I think adding some health back isn't bad, too much though and it will make the kiting meta worse.

[prisma shadow]

Just improve the melee combat if we want kiting meta to cease

The reason people kite is because those kiting classes don’t STAND A CHANCE against melee. There is no mechanics to balance it out.

At least in Chivalry, if I’m an archer and someone is pushing me, I have a chance to defend myself, I don’t run, I fight, even though the purpose of my class is to fight from further away. Why? Because the game has sufficient mechanics to allow me to win the fight, even if I’m at a severe disadvantage

In this game, a PDR can just push you and trade blows, out DPSing you. The only defense to that is to literally just run away.

You can’t OUT DPS them, you can’t defend yourself (in close quarters) because you don’t have the mechanisms to do so

[strange badger]

I've got to point one thing out before I disappear to get some things done.

I triggered quite a discussion by my first post which said nothing about gear difference, but was instead a complaint about the low TTK.

Desesperance responded to my post, opening by saying there was some issue with gear in the patch, but that he wasn't going to criticize that, then went on to say:

What I think even more people are annoyed by, and again this is my opinion, is the low TTK.

After which he went on to talk about how making 2 big changes was a mistake because it makes it difficult to pinpoint what we're disatisfied with. I'd personally extrapolate that the 2 changes have us miscommunicating with each other, some people say "the patch is good because of the gear changes" while others are saying "the patch is bad because of the TTK changes" and these people arguing separate conclusions are at each others throats in general chat and game discussion without necessarily disagreeing with each other.

[rugged summit]

The biggest issue with this game, has been, and will be BALANCE.

all this talk of It being Hardcore, and unforgiving. It can't be hardcaore, unforgiving.... and IMBALANCED. Nobody wants that experience. Like nobody. I should be punished for mistakes, and rewarded for perfect play. That can't happen if perfect play can also get you punished due to bad balancing.

They cannot balance this game with the base attributes on gear being different between rarities. It won't be possible. It creates multiple versions of each class, that are too different from each-other in power level.

They need to reign gear diff in if this game is ever going to survive. The ones who think gear diff isn't a problem don't matter. They are literally the best, most-skilled (actually) players in the game. and are probably like 5% of the population.

you cannot build a game around the hardcore players. There aren't enough of them for the game to remain economically viable.

[rustic cairn]

Yup, hahahahaahaha totally, I'm sorry man you sparked my desire to express myself hahaha

[deft wraith]

Am i crazy, or does wizard need buffs now? Feels like every game i play, i just get destroyed by longbows, or rushed by triple barb etc.

[strange badger]

No I totally relate and a lot of things you said put my ambiguous thoughts into sentences. Thanks.

I'm just trying to express that what sparked the conversation was dissatisfaction with the TTK changes, and I wanted to distinguish the dissatisfaction for TTK changes and the support for closer level gear as a separate argument. I referenced your response to point out that you were also trying to distinguish the difference, like I am.

[rustic cairn]

Yeah I also went more towards what I think was worse for casuals IMO which regards the TTK

The gear discussion I think it's harder and requires some thought, it can't be as black and white as this patch made it because then there is no point of higher level gear.

I personally am a 24< enjoyer and when I feel spicy I go to HR to hunt somebody with my duo, I understand both worlds and I prefer the more equal footing that 24< gives me but I also understand the feeling of making a kit and going out to HR with it for better loot and harder PVP.

I think a less drastic change could make this work, it's something I haven't thought about as much being a goblin hoader as I am so I don't evne have a big suggestion for this 😭

[rugged summit]

Na Wizard slaps right now. Been Wizard maining for a long time. Wizard in base-kit can rock whole lobbies. Like yeah sure.. 2 longbow shots are you're done... but you shouldn't be getting smoke by a long bow as a wizard.

[prisma shadow]

Everyone here talks about Gear being the problem for balancing and TTK but nobody ever mentions that one of the main reasons for Faster TTK is the fact there isn’t melee mechanics in the game

[rustic cairn]

Problem with Wizard for me at the moment, he is the definition of a glass cannon.

One STR Ranger longbow to the head can one shot you if you have no Vigor or if he uses True Shot hahahahaah

[prisma shadow]

You know, things that actually prolong fights? If we had a combination of simple melee mechanics and gear, this game would become extraordinarily better and TTK rises

[rustic cairn]

AH I understand now, true, it's the problem of making the 2 gigantic changes in a single patch :/

I do think it kinda relates in a sense, that's why it's even worse, TTK is kinda related to the gear chances and vice versa.

[rugged summit]

He is supposed to be a glass cannon. I find they put both the Glass, and the Cannon back in glass cannon. I swear. Being able to Rock 10-Spells and have Sepll overload as a base-kit wizard is absolutely amazing.

[rugged summit]

You don't actually want this. I promise you. THe fact that the mechanic depth of this game is movement, is the best decision the devs have ever made. I know the "Movespeed meta" can be frustrating, but you don't want the Morhau meta in this game.

[rustic cairn]

Oh believe me, I've been cooked lately by mages

The issue is that rangers can literally one shot you, maybe thats ok, I never became a Wizard enjoyer even if I tried so hard :>

[prisma shadow]

It’s not gonna become Mordhau, why do people keep saying this?

Simple improvements to blocking and adding a kicking mechanism already elevates it far beyond what we currently have.

[rugged summit]

Rangers are just over-tuned right now. The Devs know that, you saw them clearly focusing on bows with 69-1. expect further changes.

[latent tundra]

Helloo reminder that eldritch shield shouldnt consume soul shards!!!!! Please fix it!!

[deft wraith]

i find on wizard in trios, i am consistently running into triple ranger, or triple barb. How am i supposed to push into triple ranger with wizard, bard, and ranger?

[prisma shadow]

Blocking with pole arms or any other weapon that isn’t a shield stinks unless you’re using a Longsword

[rustic cairn]

I understand what you mean, I loved Chivalry and not so much Mordhau, but I think it's a diferent kind of game to what DND wants to become / is.

If anything, they should add new items so we can try more stuff hehehe

[rugged summit]

Sure they can expand the blocking and such. The point im trying to make, is adding further mechanical depth to the combat is just another tool that Hardcores will use to gate-keep newer players out of this game.

It's literally us, we are the problem. We always want to win so damn bad, that we chase away the competetion that we want to win against..

Honestly the best example i could give, the best parallel this game has, is probabaly Sea of Thieves. Not Tarkov.

[rustic cairn]

Agree, haven't said anything about class balance but with the changes, Ranger is an absolute menace.

There is so much focus on Barb that the Ranger isn't getting the bad rep it deserves at the moment

[prisma shadow]

See, the difference between Mordhau and what I’m proposing is that Mordhau has feinting and different attacks, what I’m proposing doesn’t, you still have to hold left click to get a different attack pattern and you still need to block to well, block. I always want KICKING into the game to space enemies that are in your face. This could take stamina that could be refilled by sitting down or something

[rugged summit]

i get what you're saying, i understand it, but it doesn't actually fit this game. i assure you.

[prisma shadow]

But part of the problem is that there are certain classes that can just get in your face and even if you try to block, the blocking is so bad it just goes through your shield or polearm and you can’t do anything to actually space them out

[rustic cairn]

Too radical of a change for the state of the game and wouldn't fit current direction but I also thought about that at some point, alas, it doesn't fit IMO

[strange badger]

That's a great parallel there.

[rugged summit]

Like yes there are comparisons to Tarkov, mainly the extraction (Which SoT also kinda has) and the gear. This game is unique because of how many genres it's mixing. but SoT is definitely the closest comparison. Sot learned this lesson too though. Older players will literally not let newer players play the game.

Year 1 Pirate legend btw... get at me.

[lime gorge]

center map tile before inferno. put 3 big bonfires which ever is lit makes that boss appear in inferno. teams can fight over the bonfire. or if wanna make it harder the bonfire can only be activated with an enemy heart.

[rugged summit]

They need to do something with the soul hearts. I suggested having your AP in HR be absorbed by your sould heart, so if you die in HR, and a player takes your heart, and scrifices it at an altar, they will absorb any AP you collected before you died.

[lime gorge]

give the players a single map tile editor program. give each mob and trap a resource value and give a limit on resources for a single map tile for norms/HR

[lime gorge]

i like that idea

[halcyon flame]

Not sure if you realize but sdf wants faster ttk. So it’s not a “problem”

[pale fjord]

Rogue is just glass

[split storm]

can we make achilles strike go on cool down after about like 5 to 10 sec of use?

[sullen hull]

https://youtu.be/0tff-8cFuBw?si=DYDL-wf4TgtL7OQt - The patch is not that bad.

[lusty stream]

Wait... they just deleted regular interaction speed and buff duration as random rolls... I had 2 full tabs of gear specifically with those rolls for pickpocket rogue... Holy fukc, wat tha fuk, wat tha fuk.

[tidal lake]

Don't forget mem cap. But at least we got to keep max hp % after every class lost -15 hp 💪

[dense glade]

all the people coping and sdf himself admitted the game wasnt fun rn

[coral viper]

69 made me sad, 69-1 gives me great hope. combat has genuinelly felt more balanced and I do find I'm winning/losing much more based on skill, in particular how well I play matchups/terrain. Bring looting incentive somewhere close to where it was in 68 and I think we're golden. Half the flame is people justifiably buttmad that the loot rug got pulled. Probably/definitely should have coincided with a wipe in retrospect, but I think the game is going places despite the recent fallout

[jolly leaf]

Right, imo 69-1 without removing the random attribute is a good patch. But they also need to increase TTK the -15HP and reduced armor / armor attribute was the worst part of hotfix 69 for me

[ashen canyon]

I find it much more based on who hit first than skill, getting one or two shot doesn’t have anything to do with skill In my perspective, barb is running around dominating melee engages and ranger is doing the same for ranged, not fun right now if I’m being honest.

[jolly leaf]

Actually I get what he said, as the difference of strengh between someone with a base kit and someone with a legendary kit is reduced now whats make you win a fight is how skilled you are. But the fact is that with a TTK that low it's indeed more about who hit first than who played the best. With this new "normalized" gear and a higher TTK (probably even higher than it was before #69) the game might be really great

Maybe even better than it was before Hotfix #69

[coral viper]

I come to this game from valorant so I can see why old DnD heads would feel that way. It doesn't feel wrong that initiative is the most common combat decider at all, nor do I see why that would be wrong, but I get that it's at least controversial. And yeah ranger at least seems too strong. Barb after 69-1 nerf not sure, but I have fighter mains telling me the class feels irrelevant now after barb buffs and HP cut

[ashen canyon]

I mean before I could get someone running up on me, take me by total surprise and still end up winning against them, now? If someone manages to get the first hit in and take me by surprise I mean it’s over.

[coral viper]

Is that wrong? I expect to win every fight where I catch someone neck deep in a small oak chest

[dense glade]

by that definition landmine gameplay was good

[rugged summit]

Barbs and Rangers definitely are over-tuned after 69. 69-1 helped a bit, but still they're very strong.

It was clear they thought the gear changes were going to hit Barbs very hard, and over-compenesated on his base stat increase and buff to to Rage.

Rangers just ended up being too strong because of how much easier to build they became, and the overall power increase that bows recieved.

these are both VERY minor things to fix, and probably wont be an issue by next week.

[hidden hemlock]

Okay here's an idea; what if ranger traps just did more damage up front but had a shorter period of time

[strange badger]

It's not wrong but there are elements of the game that some people find to be why they like the game so much that it reduces significantly, if not make extremely infrequent.

For example, although a lot of people think the mechanics of the game are too simple and don't allow for a lot of skill expression, I actually feel like there is a lot of complexity of movement and options in this game and you can get really good at it. I'm interested in the skill expression the game allows through movements and other things, I'm not interested in the game's skill expression in such things becoming more infrequent and most of the skill expression becoming "can I learn how to start with initiative in most fights."

Also, the nature of the game being PvPvE means that players are a fundamentally frequently distracted and whether you have the initiative on them or they have initiative on you can boil down to cheesy tactics.

[strange rose]

While I extremely enjoy the new “skill expression” philosophy that the game has been given, it also is terrible in the sense that it removes the reward players get from putting hours into the game. For example, putting in the time to grind for legendary loot as a player in order to make up for skill differences is difficult, so it makes sense that it allows the player to have the advantage in combat, but now legendary loot is the same as poor and common loot, besides modifiers meaning that it effectively loses all worth in the dungeon crawling element that ironmace wanted to follow when making the game, adding on it also makes looting not worthwhile even though it is a large part of dungeon crawling

[umbral elm]

Give rangers weapon sway and aim cone

[graceful frost]

bows didnt recieve a power increase lol, it was the hp change that made them strong along with the better base gear.

and barbs would not have gotten hit hard by the gear change to any degree. They just got super buffed for no reason

[rugged summit]

Well all the wepons got a buff right. Regular bows got put up to the same level as Epics. So basically every ranger was running around with epic bows by default, while everyone had less HP.

[graceful frost]

i mean wouldnt rlly call that a buff

esp when wpn dmg got nerfed after

[glacial sphinx]

Doesn't really matter either way, with this TTK bows need a nerf

[merry belfry]

bows need an actual draw timer that affects damage/accuracy cos atm survival bow kiting is ass to vs and longbow 1-2 shotting squishies isnt good for the game (at least with the ease of using it without punishment)

[split storm]

make caltrop have no limit but only 1 caltrop trap on the ground at a time or at least let me recharge them.

[vestal cloud]

this game has become so stale

[gentle mica]

doesn't have to be like mordhau or chivalry
there are plenty of things that could be added to the combat to make it less one dimensional
more attacks using modifier buttons
every weapon could be able to block
back stab mechanics (assassination mechanic)
stamina mechanics
much more don't want to type it all
doesn't need to be anything fancy

Weapons need improvement with current moveset / lack of. Included but not limited to:
Zweihander ALT mode is garbage. replace with a block
Halberd alt mode is really good, but replace it with a block
War Maul alt mode replace it with a block
One handed weapons when not using a shield, give them ability to block
Magic Staff give it ability to block if no spells*
You hold shields too close to the body, extend the arm a bit. Pavise is the exception.
Shield slam should be removed and a shield bash mechanic added for literally anyone holding a shield. Obv tone down the effects that shield slam had

Misc. things that could or should be added
more shields and weapons (where is that kite shield IM was making?)
more spells (Warlock can summon things, why only hydra? Druid too. Heck Wizard probably too!)
the training tree???
more heroes (not technically a hero game but you know what I mean)
where is the sorcerer for example
an interactive hub with all the merchants
Ik I will get flak for this but weapon / armor durability so you have to use the smiths that are already in the game gives you incentive to go and mine ore
custom emblems for shields and armor
guilds / clans and clan battles
a single player mode where you go into dungeons to gather resources
raids

Much more don't want to type it all I am sure someone already has
it would not even take too much to make the combat in the game feel more satisfying
just need to improve the netcode (shocker) and add a few more mechanics.

[grim torrent]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/590757/give-cleric-the-ability-to-equip-bladed-weapons

[buoyant shale]

Im expecting for the next hero to be the Monk, I´d like to see it a lot

[gentle mica]

that would be sick!

[karmic jasper]

Please give more time on updates, Goblin merchant needs more time to come back. Make it 30 minutes please.

[floral gyro]

wp cry babys get there patch back becouse theay cant handle casual player with even gear so sad

[surreal robin]

please give clerics some attention begging

[grim torrent]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/590757/give-cleric-the-ability-to-equip-bladed-weapons

[prisma shadow]

I have been saying this for ages

[split storm]

clarics are finally somewhat balanced kinda... they still strong with near one shoting with judgment but relative to other classes kinda balanced i rather they not fuck with him now.

[surreal robin]

all im asking for is a short sword so i can live my dream to be a paladin in the game

[split storm]

im sure they will add an actual paladin at some point, but right now cleric is not paladin cleric is cleric so let cleric be cleric.