suggestion-discussion

[jovial tinsel]

MMR is trash, I agree 100% it does not need to exist in this game. Thats not the point of this game. At the start, it felt like runescape wildy and that was great. Now it feels like a structured ranked mode with elo league of legends style. I dont like it at all, the metric for season rewards shouldnt be tied to a rating you get that devolves into lobby teaming for pve since its easier to get those rewards thats way. You will never fix this if you keep season rewards tied to them. Seasons rewards should be entirely based off your specific characters career time in the wipe. Like slaying bosses, killing specific mobs, looting certain amount of treasure and gold, getting player kills. A specific rating like League of legends and Dota makes the game feel like a trash esport

[wheat mirage]

I think he means that you can literally just die from the cold waiting

edit: or not

[short parrot]

I literally watched it glitching on a piece of ice and couldnt get to it

[wheat mirage]

That's more a call for a bug report, not a timer change.

[short parrot]

But this as well. It should be anchored until someone hops on and unanchors it

[dense sentinel]

it floats through several times throughout the match, raft is the fastest extract in ice map. first one exits way before statics open iirc

[short parrot]

Well it didnt for me and I waited

[jovial tinsel]

thanks for testing the game for us, certainly this is part of the experience 😄

[small furnace]

I've said this many times but the AP reward is not the problem, unless they make it something absolutely ridiculous...

The problem is the fundamental aspect that you risk losing both your kit and your AP entrance fee entirely anytime you engage in pvp with someone. If a 1v1 is completely fair then it's a 50/50 chance you lose your AP and your kit, but even if you win there's a good chance you get third partied and lose it anyone.

Unless you're an absolute pvp god, but then the idea of only 1 person coming out on top of every lobby doesn't work well when you have to extract 4-5 runs in a row in order to make any progress... So people just loot instead because it lacks the risks that pvp comes with in order to climb.

They have to do something about this if they want people to feel comfortable pvping at high ranks.

[short parrot]

You SHOULD have 3 seperate environments and at the very least an integration test team, instead of releasing bug after bug after bug and unbalanced mechanics. This is the standard software development process, you shouldn't be using your client base as UAT testers, there's literal UAT testers trained to do this.

[jovial tinsel]

I know, I been begging for this for ages. The fact they dont even specify why they implement the changes they do is an atrocity as well. I firmly believe they have no idea what they are doing, and hoping the balances changes they did "correctly" click with the players and leave it. Then they address the stupid shit they did.

[small furnace]

I'm a QA software tester by career and it feels like a lot of people don't understand this.

Yes, EA involves 'testing the game' for the devs but it should not be to this extent. They should have some degree of UAT to the point where game breaking bugs aren't found nearly every patch that need to be hotfixed out a day later.

It feels like the devs don't even do unit testing on their own with how obvious some of the stuff that gets past is. We should ideally have at LEAST 3 layers of testing before it makes it to the live environment where people are playing.

[merry kestrel]

I'm not sure any UAT team on the planet could catch every dupe bug possible before release man

[jovial tinsel]

How the fk does this studio have 50/70 employees? What are they doing? Who is testing shit? Who are the devs in charge of balancing this game? It literally feels like they lan with each other at the office and have a good ol time, then patch it in, suiting the experiences they just had at the fkn studio. I've never seen a game deploy as many changes and hot fixes than IM.

[small furnace]

That's very hyperbolic of you, I pointed out a specific issue.

It should have NEVER been an issue where campfires cause a crash/dupe on ice caves that made it to live. That is such a basic test case: 'use a campfire to heal on new map' that could have been found out very easily by devs unit testing their own code.

These kinds of bugs slip past in nearly every single big patch and need to be hotfixed out a day later.

[merry kestrel]

Also, the very definition of Early Access disagrees with you
https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+the+purpose+of+early+access&oq=what+is+the+purpose+of+early+access&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBCDI0NjJqMGo0qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

If you don't like that you paid money to be a tester then that's a you problem.

[jovial tinsel]

bro imagine this going live on steam, they wouldnt even be able to afford the amount of patches through steam services, it would bankrupt them

[merry kestrel]

steam doesn't charge you for patches

https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/store/updates

[jovial tinsel]

must be just MicroSHIT then

[hazy pelican]

Has anyone thought about implementing an arena? A map you can que into that is an arena with traps and obstacles, and then you can fight one other team to the death, winner gets the others loot and maybe like a golden chest or something with a portal out.

[small furnace]

In ANY other software application this would not be acceptable. Stakeholders know that when glaring issues like this make it to live it damages consumer's impression of the application too much.

That is why we perform rounds of testing BEFORE a patch goes out. Those testing rounds can take as little as a couple days, or even a week. They don't need to be pumping out patches as often as they are.

IM is not immune to this because 'early access' they are damaging the reputation of their game every time they put glaring issues like this on live, and some people are blind and just saying 'early access duhurr' when we can see the playerbase actively shrinking and general sentiment toward IM getting worse and worse over time. I DO NOT want this game to die, it is a unique concept and Neither DungeonBorne nor GreedisGood correctly emulate the feelings of this game.

WrathofKoopa did an excellent dissertation on this subject that I recommend you go look at it if you are firmly in the camp of: "IM can do no wrong, you are paying to test." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsigbjXZSaw

[short parrot]

A million times this.

[merry kestrel]

Videogames are not comparable to any other software development industry on the planet, and just because the userbase lost the plot doesn't mean they're right.

The playerbase is dying because the game is unfinished and short. People play other games. As the game releases more content people will come back.

It's also not on steam. I personally know 3 people who will not buy until it's back on Steam. I'm of the opinion that, currently, everyone who will buy DaD outside of steam already has, and more people bought it than Ironmace was even expecting.

No, Ironmace is not immune to criticism, but that's why we're here. We're here to help them test the game. That does not mean tell them, "stop hotfixing" or "test it more." That means saying "hey savage roar is strong" or "hey there's this bug in this map."

[small furnace]

I don't know why you take issue with those of us with experience in the field of software application development saying that they SHOULD use multiple testing environments and perform rounds of testing before actually putting out fixes.

When you use the shield of 'it is early access, you ARE the tester!' you are allowing them to further damage their reputation with each mistake that they make. Sure, you sure aren't disenfranchised yourself as you'll always make that excuse to yourself... but you CANNOT deny that there are MANY players who find themselves constantly getting upset with these updates and eventually those players will have enough and they will leave. They will spread the word that Dark and Darker is not a good game for people to be playing.

Sure, you might find that acceptable... but I do not. I do not want to see people quitting this game and speaking ill of it to all their friends and the game slowly burning out due to a lack of competence from the development team.

They have 50-70 employees now. Surely a few of those people are QA engineers like myself, I see no reason why they can't have Release cycles that involve one or two rounds of testing. With the issues that CURRENTLY slip past it is very obvious that they currently do not.

[short parrot]

I'm a technical IT business analyst and am currently facilitating a PoC and later a pilot in which capacity and resourcing for the UAT team to test before going live has already been ratified, this is a REQUIREMENT before going live in any reputable development team that releases ANYTHING into production. I just get the feeling that IM has no project management or are just doing this by shooting into the dark and hoping they can fix whatever their clientele find

To say that videogame development isnt comparable to any other software development industry is a blatant lie.

[small furnace]

You have to come to terms that the people that you are constantly saying: "It's early access, you ARE the tester!" to... those people matter too. A live service game like this needs a constant flow of players to succeed, and yes while you may find yourself more lenient on such game breaking issues. If you are constantly having to tell people that little blurb then it should be very apparent to you that there are a lot of people for whom that does not ring true.

You need those people for this game to succeed, it isn't acceptable to just allow your reputation to be hurt with a significant portion of your audience on each release.

[haughty harbor]

i suggest you fix the servers. if a newbie dies to lag the way i jsut did on steam release the game will get insta refunded

also add a real auction house we all know it's not that hard

[small furnace]

Think they may be waiting for end of wipe on that.

[fathom bolt]

It’s likely coming tomorrow

[small furnace]

I guess it could. Totally slipped my mind that sdf said 'marketplace updates' in his hotfix comment.

[merry kestrel]

I think you're trying to apply the standards for the industry you work in against videogame development. The majority of a videogame dev team, esp for an indie title, is going to be artists, not programmers; often, even in a team of 50, you only have a handful of actual programmers who implement things.

Even then, not every single item is going to be QA'd. It will be tested to show that it works and, if it works on their side, they implement it.

Videogame QA, esp indie dev, is just not comparable to "technical IT business analysis", pilot programs, or proofs of concept. You're asking literal artists to tell you what the final concept will be before they've finished even designing it. There are no shareholders here. There is no "end user" who the license will be handed off to when everything is said and done. There may be a GDD but the final product will invariably be changed and the GDD will receive many updates inbetween.

I'm just sick and tired of people acting like the game is finished when it's not even close. They know there's problems. They've stated they know there's problems. They've stated they're working on them.

[serene grove]

people literaly cried to devs to make a MMR , now u suggest to remove it , what kinda joke are we making to the devs

if only cosmetics wouldve shown at early season people would go rank more

[merry kestrel]

The average player almost never knows what they want or how to enjoy a game. This is a well known rule in almost anything, any game, any genre, full stop. 🤷‍♀️

[serene grove]

so graysun shoudnt listen to the comunity

[merry kestrel]

why are you arguing with a strawman, we're talking about removing MMR. why are you talking about listening to the community

[serene grove]

cause every petition we make is worktime for devs

[merry kestrel]

This thread actually answers it better than I could.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/zahdi8/why_is_early_access_a_thing/

[merry kestrel]

Yes and I feel sorry for the devs for having to make MMR but I don't think it's conducive to this game being healthy. 🤷‍♀️

[serene grove]

i cant agree ,

im done grinding demi , and i actually would give my stuff to other barbs so they can get to demi also

[merry kestrel]

I think the current way HR is done is also poorly designed and the AP loss forces conflict avoidance.

edit: maybe not poorly designed but poorly thought out for this type of game

[serene grove]

just like i take someone stuff if they are willing to spare

yea but thats not on us, removing mmr is very precipitated

lets just see what they give us this week

[short parrot]

In order to get something developed, the functional, technical and business requirements need to be elicited from stakeholders and then analysed to determine the voracity of the proposed solution or design. Artists arent consulted on requirements, they're artists. If you're eleciting the requirements for all systems, processes and the general outcome of the game's core design from the artists then you've already started at a loss.

As for your desciption of QA testing, if it works 'on their side'? Are you referring to the same client and version of the game that gets released to the public and for all intents and purposes is the exact same in everyway to the one they test 'on their side'? I dont think you understand what Quality Assurance testing is.

Indie games are quite literally PoC's at their core, a PoC is the uses short timeframes and limited scope to test the feasiblity and implementation. Kind of like how IM has been releasing more and more content and changes in iterations. I get the feeling you have no idea what you're talking about amte. sorry, but thats just the factual reality of software development whether gaming or not.

[indigo grail]

im straight up begging on my hand and knees pleading nerf barb, being caught up to by a barb while i have all agi gear on and having 50 throwing axes thrown at me is unbelievable, this is easily just ignorance and ignoring the community, at some point youd think wed see a barb nerf after the countless ammount of people complaining and videos from big content creators in this community, but somehow they instead give barb a buff in the new patch

[jovial tinsel]

Classes just need flat out reworks, they worked for player tests but now it’s a little whack. The newest class is the most complete class which makes me annoyed lol

[elfin vale]

buff rogue, data shows the game is always upcharting in players when rogue is op (im making this up but please buff rogue im so so sick of barb being meta it has been half a year)

[dry glacier]

They should add different skin colors so i can be black

It's all White and Whiter in this game

[jovial tinsel]

That will be $6.99 plus tip

[merry kestrel]

I get it you've done a PMP course

[short parrot]

I've been a technical BA for over 15 year buddy. so, incorrect.

[merry kestrel]

Dude the fact that you dont consider game devs artists says it all right there lmao

[short parrot]

@merry kestrel Please quote the part where I said game devs aren't artists. thanks

[merry kestrel]

"Artists aren't consulted on requirements, they're artists. If you're eliciting the requirements for all systems, processes and the general outcome of the game's core design from the artists then you've already started at a loss."

And no, indie games arent PoC. They're someone's dreams made real, as cheesy as that sounds. Indie titles can be as big or small as they want, but a fully released indie game is still a full game.

[short parrot]

Thank you for contradicting your previous statement. Much appreciated.

[merry kestrel]

Okay man, enjoy your stakeholders

[short parrot]

Devs and artsists are two different roles, not sure if you're aware of that chief. Your logic is akin to me asking the woman that works in UX for architectural advice to integrate with a cloud db.

If you dont know what you're talking about you shouldn't say anything.

[jovial tinsel]

No point in discussing these things, we should be focused on lighting a fire under IM’s butt. I’m sure they are more than aware of the stuff said here. I hope they slow down a bit and just address the instability first and foremost.

[short parrot]

Agreed.

[merry kestrel]

You're right, I'm sorry.

I wasn't aware you were an industry professional. Since I don't know what I'm talking about, are you able to share when a 3D artist's works gets handed to a developer in a videogame development team?

Assume it's an indie studio developing a 3D FPS RPG. Please use industry specific language, such as material or mesh, when appropriate; even better would be Unreal engine specific language, such as actor.

Since you know so much about 3D art pipelines in videogame dev, I'm just curious when the artist hands it off to a developer.

Videogame design is not the same as the field you work. You aren't ready for this fight m8.

I agree the lag is bad and should be fixed.

I do not agree that every bug found would have been found by QC. Live is never going to be 1:1 the same as test server on a small team.

I do not agree with having a full multi-man QC team in the age of instant hotfixes and early access buy-in.

[dry acorn]

Make Rogue Stealth Cool Again

[merry kestrel]

Rogue perks need a Great Condensation™️, they suffer from perk bloat 😦

[short parrot]

My rate is $350/h. Pay up and I'll gladly educate you.

[merry kestrel]

Aka you don't know

[short parrot]

AKA I'm working.

[wheat mirage]

Would like to see Trap Disarm Kits gain some more use.

Some unavoidable but obvious traps that are far more deadly for instance.
Like an axe trap above a door that will swing down as soon as someone tries to open the door.

Or an obviously rigged chest that cannot be unlocked with music and explodes if opened without it. Must be disarmed to be opened, but increases the loot rolls. stacks with locked.

Disarming a trap will also disarm nearby traps in a chain effect. This means a trap disarm could disarm an entire floor trap section that could be blocking a passage

Disarm Kits gain unlimited uses but have a longer interaction time of ~15 seconds, sped up by resourcefulness

Requires a mini-game to disarm, similar to lockpicking. Failing badly can set the trap off

Could make trap disarms on environment trap last a few minutes instead of being permanent

[flint root]

Dear developer it is 3 Clerics top 100 solo hr, i suggest make the bind 3 seconds ,or add a holy light type of damage spell for pvp, or longer range on Jugement. Or all of it,, thank you so much 🙂

[devout mural]

ip ban gold buyers

[peak heron]

GUYS IF UR TIRED OF IRON MACE BS TAKE A LOOK (DEMO OUT FOR FREE ON STEAM) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKOsUrCKwaE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKOsUrCKwaE

this game is in beta and already looks 5x times better than dark, i love the game but im slowly getting drainned of the bs they put out, like is just me that feels like every update they take a step forward and 2 back?

[long blade]

super sketchy how you've only been in this discord for a month.

[meager jasper]

Having tried it out I can confirm: Holy hell dungeonborne has awful combat.

[peak heron]

seems like so but the game just came out

[meager jasper]

Overall it's easier, and on a class level there is zero concern for balance.

[peak heron]

lol feel free to dont open it then xd

[meager jasper]

This isn't a good excuse. If something is a bad product out the gate, trying to compete with an entrenched one, that means it's effectively dead on arrival.

[peak heron]

what u mean its not a good excuse, if there is a time for a game to be less good its when it comes out lol? and btw in many points it already over came D&D, not in pvp for sure tho

[meager jasper]

Nobody cares if a game is in early access or not, people care if things are good or not. And dungeonborne isn't good when compared directly to its competitor. "It'll get better" is a meaningless statement when it isn't better and seems to be fundamentally worse.

[peak heron]

and to be honest im only this wipe because im slowly losing hope in iron mace and i have played since first week before it even came out

[meager jasper]

It sounds like you're frustrated and unironically coping by throwing in with a competitor you know is much, much worse.

[peak heron]

hyped*

lol much worse in pvp not the whole game, the map already looks better, models look better, inventory looks better, healing system looks better, like what u mean exactly??

[meager jasper]

I don't mean to be rude, but this game is really bad. I actually want competition for ironmace, but this ain't that.

[peak heron]

no offense taken brother no worries

[meager jasper]

The maps looking better have honestly very little baring when the core gameplay fundamentals are actively unpleasant.

To say nothing of them all being assets, just like DaD. There's no real originality here. In fact, most of the assets seem to be the exact same assets.

[peak heron]

like i said bro the game just came out, this is literally the first play test, do u expect it to be better than d&d out of the bat?

[meager jasper]

Yes? Gameplay fundamentals don't, by and large, change. Games feel good or bad, and this one feels bad.

[peak heron]

well i agree with that but like u said that doesnt matter that much if the gameplay is fun

[meager jasper]

Balance may change, but combat in this is floaty, unresponsive, and generally poorly considered.

[peak heron]

no one really cares if a game is a copy paste, after all all games that exist is a bit of a copy of something that existed

[meager jasper]

Yeah. I hope this shows ironmace what they can do with maps, but otherwise I cannot see this being a real competitor. And their opportunity to wow consumers is now, and they're wasting it.

[peak heron]

a lot of games change completly after a few updated or play tests, even dark and darker changed a lot since the first play test, seems to me that is wrong to say that the game wont be worth it after a week of it being out, depending on the devs in one month it can be a whole diff game

[meager jasper]

In the first play tests, DaD by and large had the same combat system and felt good and animations have only generally been tweaked. You underestimate just how much work would go into making this combat system good. This needs actively removed and redone.

[peak heron]

i agree with that but its not like its impossible for good devs to do it in a flash, we cant just put it asside in the first week, after iron mace needs some competition for them to wake up

[meager jasper]

Also we can make direct comparisons here, this is not the first clone to come out. Greed is Good happened, and that even had superior combat out the gate I'd say. But you need to really be impressive and be impressive immediately in order for a product to have a reasonable chance in an already saturated market. The reality is that nobody is going to care about this game after a relatively short period of time.

But GiG showed everyone what a good auctionhouse looked like, and it informed DaD's development. Which is good.

You can't sit and make excuses for something that's bad and hope that it will develop. That's just not how products work.

Even when it's only relatively bad to DaD.

[wheat mirage]

I like some of the ideas of DB, but yeah, the combat feels not great atm.
Tried the Pyromancer (fire guy in any case).
Main staff attack was just a click and hold with no weight
My character's speed made me constantly question whether I was accidentally crouching (seriously, I spent 2 minutes in a room crouching and uncrouching and trying to sprint, etc)
The turn speed is slow and feels awkward
The sword and shield felt ok, but the delay on swings is awful, and there's no headshots and it feels like you don't need to aim as it's the same damage everywhere. And charging a sword attack raised my shield, which actually just blocked my view and made it hard to gage distance

[peak heron]

bro the game has a lot of potential (pvp its literally just one point of the gameplay) and the market its not satturated btw, this kinda game started with dark and darker and the game has been out for like 2years max

and there is some stuff they already got right that d&d didnt after all this time out

[meager jasper]

I'm describing how markets work, not the "potential" of a game. They've already lost, is the thing. They don't have an audience base to waste their first impression with.

[peak heron]

i mean its not like d&d is on a podium like they were on the first play test, u can clearly see a HUGE drop in the number of players since the first play test so yea i think there is room for them to take "first place" even more seeing how iron mace conducted their last updates

[meager jasper]

And the reality is, DaD has always felt good to fight in. The balance and meta are occasionally issues, but the core gameplay has remained entirely the same.

[wheat mirage]

While the game needs work, it's got more audience than any other demo product on Steam for their demo event. So I can't agree with that statement. It is a lacking game, but it's still popular

[peak heron]

literally taking 1 step forward and 2 back when it comes to pvp and the general gameplay

[meager jasper]

It's popular as a demo, right now. And it's wasted that impression, at least on me. I won't be going back to it personally unless I have a very good reason to, like them saying combat is completely overhauled.

[meager jasper]

Have you tried the swordsmaster, lol? Its main ability throws four real swords, unretrievably. It's hilariously weak.

[long blade]

@peak heron has like 6 messages, very likely he's a paid dungeonborne bot.

[peak heron]

it can perfectly happen like i said if its gonna ahve a big change its now that its fresh out of the oven

[stiff drift]

How do you know it’s not impossible? Are there many games that saw their core gameplay mechanics completely reworked? How do you know the devs are good? Why did they fail to make a fun and feel-good combat system in the first place (and why IM didn’t?)? These are baseless claims you’re making.

[peak heron]

lol, why are u talking kid, u got mad cuz i didnt pay u any attenttion 😭 ?? if u gonna talk bring something to the conversation instead of acting like a 10yo

[meager jasper]

Yes this. You're making huge assumptions because you want a better game than IM's offering, but that's not what is actually in front of you and you have no reason to believe it will be in the future. And again, the issues here are baked into the fighting of the game, not into basic balance.

[wheat mirage]

I mean, I do agree there. I've played once and don't feel any urge to return to it. But statistically it is doing well. Even if it does die out

Then again I main a Bard, so the game has even less appeal to me

[wheat mirage]

And no. But my Pyroblast did 90 damage and cost 20% of my mana bar which seemed ot regen at 1% per 30 seconds
A sword swing for me did 60 damage, or 100 if charged. A charged swing took pretty much the same time and the enemies mostly just stood still waiting for me to swing

[meager jasper]

I tried fighter pyro and swordmaster. Fighter was the strictly best class among all of them. It had better armour, better skills, and more damage base.

Fighter's spin to win aoe whirlwind is extremely good.

[wheat mirage]

It does also seem odd that casters have 2 spells and that's it. Maybe more unlock, but there was no indication of that

[meager jasper]

One of my first engagements as a fighter was fighting two wizards, alone, with fighter. They were both obviously out of mana so they ganged up on my in a corridor and tried to sword-and-board me and I just won extremely easily. When I played pyro I could see why - You get no real mana if you don't bring potions and you only recover a trickle of it over a long long time.

[copper condor]

I want to see what the players at the top of the leaderboard look like irl

[meager jasper]

But I wasn't impressed with pyro, and swordmaster was just valueless. Inexplicably worse abilties and armour than the fighter with the same weapon selection.

[peak heron]

the game just came out, u really think thats all its gonna have? u guys seem to be forgeting that the game just came out and in many fields already is better than d&d, yes it might never be better but there is the possibility, there is no real reason to say "i wont never play it again" when u urself dont know that

[meager jasper]

Speculation is meaningless when they haven't put anything else into the game. Oh and it seemed like each staff had its own innate spell, which was interesting but they are very weak.

[wheat mirage]

I said I had no urge to return to it, not that I'd never play again.
As in, after playing it in ernest, I have no desire to click play on it again. That's just where I am with it

[meager jasper]

The fact that you seemed to gain stat ups on levelling also seemed to be potentially broken.

[peak heron]

what u mean they havent put anything else into the game, if u opened the game and u get to the menu u can already see a lot of stuff dark could perfectly have at this stage of development but instead they are taking steps back

[wheat mirage]

Who knows, in a year or two it could be the big thing and mechanically satisfying, then I'd happily play it

[peak heron]

thats all im trying to say, people blasting a game with 1 week of life for some reason that i cant understand

like i remember perfectly how much supporst dark got in the first play test mainly after nexum starter with their bullshit, that kinda of behavior is what enables a game to grow

[wheat mirage]

I mean, it's mainly blasted because it's literally trying to be a direct competitor right now, but they are showcasing it before the fundamental mechanics of the game match the baseline of the competitor. I think the main criticism is just that they should have waited and got to an actual competitive state

[meager jasper]

Steps back? I don't know what you people are huffing in terms of your frustrations with DaD but honestly, DaD is consistently releasing good content and then addressing the balance for them. They need to hurry up and listen to barbs and casterlock being OP, and give us an auctionhouse already, but generally the game's slow expansion of content is very pleasing to me.

I just wish they would focus less on ranged damage overall, but they seem to know that.

[meager jasper]

This isn't blasting, this is simple reality. I'm attempting to describe how markets work to you and you're acting as if it's something you can defend it from. You can't.

[wheat mirage]

As in, they aren't an alternative, or have a twist, or a different fundamental principle. The two games are literally "one is better than the other". So it seems odd for them to showcase it with the weak combat it currently has

[peak heron]

so u think releasing 2 insane buffs on barbs when they are already on the top classes isnt a step back in gameplay? ask literally every other class mains what they think

[stiff drift]

I find it interesting how people forgot that sdf never wanted an auction house to be in the game and it took a lot of strife between him and players (and maybe internal) for him to even start considering it. Meanwhile they as players already decided that an auction house has to be in the game, the game is worse if it isn’t, other games that have it are “ahead”.

[wheat mirage]

The difference is this is a balance issue.
If they regressed the actual mechanics of the game, it'd be another issue entirely

[meager jasper]

Yeah this is a balance issue not a game mechanics issue. There's a difference between something that affects the feel of the game and something that's purely a matter of tweaking numbers internally

[peak heron]

im not saying it isnt, balance has everything to do with gameplay and thats the point we are talking, doesnt matter if the atacks feel better if u get 2 tapped every fight by a barbarian

[meager jasper]

There's always going to be wrong moves in balance, and right ones. That's actually the point of an early access.

[wheat mirage]

Yes, but the idea is that balance is tweaking numbers.
Improving the feel and flow of combat is likely an overhaul of underlying systems

[meager jasper]

Indeed, to counterpoint you, you're seeming to give this other random dev the benefit of the doubt, but not ironmace, when in reality this mistake was made a relatively short amount of time ago and no doubt will get fixed.

[peak heron]

well true but like i said this is been the trend not last update but the last updates, at some point people start lossing hope and u can see that in the number of players and general growth, i think its time for dark to have a real competitor and the fact that people imeddiatly blast the game wont allow that

[wheat mirage]

Think of it this way, I can reasonably see Ironmace saying "We have reduced the numbers on Barbs" next patch
Can I also reasonably see DB devs saying "We completely overhauled combat" next patch?

[meager jasper]

It's not "blasting". Again, I have no investment in dungeonborn either way - the game is either bad or good and that's what allows it to be a competitor. It has nothing to do with people giving opinions on it.

[peak heron]

man u understand i have been playing the game since the first play test, i have been reading everything they have to say and keep track of the updates and stuff that happens directly with iron mace, im not saying that they are trash, in fact i love dark but like i said last updates only made the game less fun so yea i think its time for them to take a jumpscare

not talking about u, im talking about general opinion people have of a game that came a week ago and already has many points better than dark

[meager jasper]

My observation is simply that this is not a viable competitor, and from a marketing perspective they have wasted their best window for marketing their game by putting out something that's an inferior product with no real alternative draw.

[peak heron]

something that the game i love could have donne a year ago

[peak heron]

well i agree with that but its not like its doing bad

[stiff drift]

Competition as a vehicle of quality is a capitalist myth. There are so many games with amazing quality and depth and no competition.

[peak heron]

u know barbs have not really been nerfed for a good while when they clrealy need it and they know it right? every single big youtuber are commenting about that in the lasts videos and i totally agree with that

[wheat mirage]

I mean, there are also games like Pokemon who've been phoning it in for 10 years on a lack of competition

[stiff drift]

And yes, Dungeonborne isn’t competition anyway as it is a different game for a different audience.

[meager jasper]

Really? It sure feels like it was made for my demographic tbh, and I dislike it quite a bit. Unless the audience is just "people who haven't tried DaD yet"

[wheat mirage]

They do need nerfing. But I also recall when Fighter was the OP one, and Ranger, and Rogue

[wheat mirage]

This seems like bait. They are exactly the same game with different underlying mechanical systems
This means one is just going to be an objectively better version of the product

[stiff drift]

That is true but there is a difference between AAA game dev and indie game dev. I don’t think anyone can argue that Ironmace isn’t making a game out of love and not greed.

[peak heron]

its literally targeting the same audience, the only reason they made the game so similar to dark is to compete for the audience, and like i said i dont think its something that bad if they do better than the ones they "copied"

[peak heron]

well i believed that but every update i feel like they are getting lost and i cant understand why

[wheat mirage]

It's not. But they released worse. Which is not a great idea when they are competing for audience

[peak heron]

bro did u see what u just said "they released worse" the game literally just came out, do u expect it to be better out of the bat when they started developing the game way latter than iron mace

[meager jasper]

The one thing that dungeonborne does really well is its use of better maps. I personally increasingly think the modular approach to dungeon design in DaD just doesn't work and doesn't make sense outside of a random-generation system. If that's what they're eventually going for, so be it, but generally speaking it's better to have custom-designed maps if they're going to be static like they are now.

But if map design is the only selling point it's relatively low. Loot and combat are cores of the game and they fall short in DB.

[wheat mirage]

Yes. I expect them to develop until they can compete. I don't think that's a hard ask, especially if they aim to directly compete with the exact same game structure

[peak heron]

they have all the time of the world to make a diff map, like i said they copied dark to strike the same audience

[stiff drift]

I’m not sure about that.
One has a novel combat system that is very simple but also fun, polished, and deep enough to be fun for hundred of hours. The other has an arcadey MMO mobile game combat system with no depth aside from the abilities you can use.
One has deliberate design choices that are controversial but make the game unique and often feel-good, e.g., the precision with which you have to point at trinkets to collect them. The other is focused entirely on QoL and accessibility.

A lot of people, especially older, are drawn to Dark and Darker because of these quirky design decisions and for them Dungeonborne is not a competition because that game has a completely different design philosophy despite superficial mechanic similarity.

[meager jasper]

Also, IM, if you're listening: Give us book mimics, those things are funny.

mimic potions are also far cooler than invis pots

[peak heron]

true af

[quiet hatch]

I have an idea for the rogues so they can get that nerf everyone wants but for them to still be sneaky but basically rogues should get a perk that replaces hide and only allows them to be in stealth when they are crouched and for hide to potentially have a longer duration or infinite duration until they break crouch

[deft hedge]

Serious Question/suggestion:

• Should double jump be removed?

It seems like in its current form it just causes a ton of design problems. Having to put weird invisible walls up that the rogues just ignore.

Recently, I got killed within the first 30 seconds of a match on "ruins" by a rogue that jumped over the wall. (Full golden boy also..)

There wasn't any counter play. I couldn't even hear him because he was so high up and he didn't need to open a door, or break the barrier. This... seems not.. right.

Am I crazy? Do people like fighting rogues who run around on the roofs? I play a lot of rogue too and often times it feels like I'm going out of bounds when I use that perk.

[junior burrow]

Sliders for the UI. We have access to a bunch of low resolutions but cannot use them since you cant see the loot tables properly.

[hollow sentinel]

Ranger is at a huge disadvantage in solo's. Either increase move speed or create some other escape function.

[deft idol]

Please reduce the overall HP on ice map skellys. Normal crypt elites/nightmares have way less hp AND no slowing abilities, and are basically half as dense on the crypt map, not to mention some of the strategies to dodge the new attacks aren’t consistent (especially with such egregious lag). You’re getting punished 2x for failing to execute on an enemy with nearly 50 percent more HP.

[pine comet]

Dude just place traps in every room and lure people who chase you into them, quit complaining about being at a disadvantage with traps

[foggy sun]

Rangers don't need a buff they have traps and can gate keep doors like its no ones business. They also can three shot most classes as long as plate (or they are a barb) is not on them. On top of all of that they have arguably one of the strongest melee weps in the game (10 plus physical power spear). Move speed wise, they have a ton, zero to low armour means fast movement. All together they have good movement speed, high dmg, long range, traps to deny area, a melee weapon that can headshot very easily like to give them anything else would be to turn them into the new "barbarian".

[graceful frost]

average barb main who has never played ranger at a higher level

[foggy sun]

whats your main

[tough willow]

I agree. On top of having a trap that immobilizes you they should be able to whip out a portable portal at anytime in the Match to escape

[hollow sentinel]

that's not a bad idea, though considering warlocks recent changes i'm surprised they haven't added it to that class.

[foggy sun]

https://tenor.com/view/overlord-anime-chan-buffs-spam-spells-gif-19468778 warlocks right now

[strong grotto]

I was gone for 2 days off discord and THAT SHIT ABOVE is the first thing I see...

[strong grotto]

+1

[hollow sentinel]

Solo's as a ranger is absurdly difficult. What class does ranger have an advantage over in solo's? None.

Even rogues now do half my health with their epic hand crossbows lol

[limber elbow]

Climb to the Demigod rank and proudly receive all the rewards, then relax and play the game for fun without worrying about the silly scores in the rank, then check to see if you lose your rank, you will lose the Fuck your rank reward system IRONMACE

[foggy sun]

https://tenor.com/view/cope-mald-ratio-gif-24944390

https://tenor.com/view/no-bugs-bunny-gif-18219884

[soft nebula]

when going into hell, the main theme of it is obviously which boss you get, i think it would be cool if we get a certain "roar" or sound depending on which boss we get right as we spawn in, make it more threatening to new players, and make it more clear to better players

[strong grotto]

Translation: I want to know if I want to waste my time on one boss, when I want to hunt the other.
Which is absolutely fair, to be honest.

[sudden trail]

I'm just coming back to ask once again for a future update to contain a hotkey to look at map during dungeon. Or maybe you have to bring a map item in or find one to be able to even see the map to begin with?

[strong grotto]

That's a good idea, actually. Map would be nice. Not everyone are able to memorize all, at least for reason of not being able to play the game all the free time.

[wheat mirage]

I'd still prefer maps to be more a part of dungeoneering
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/522858/dungeoneering-mechanics-cartography

This creates new content and slowly has you learn the map, and gives you more to do for quests and loot, etc (and creates more loot for pvp)

[peak heron]

i think it should be changed for one simple reason, it only makes sense in ruins and in no other map

[dull finch]

bann teaming again, would be a great suggestion in my mind

[dull rune]

there was never a ban on teaming, just no premeditated teaming

[last garden]

fix lag

[pulsar creek]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/531792/blue-green-normal-lobbies bring back blue or green lobbies!

[limber elbow]

I hope IRONMACE has someone who plays the game they created themselves, playing solo and encountering teaming quite a bit, that was before the introduction of the rank system mode, playing any game is like 50 matches, all 50 matches are all 1 bunch. Teaming Chinese dogs always fight with a group of 4-5 people at the same time. Even when looking for cover, they always see a group running around hunting people and they are all Chinese dogs. If they can't hack, they team up together. hunt people

[strong grotto]

No.
P.S. Hello.

[torpid trout]

damn bro you said the quiet part outloud....

[graceful beacon]

ranger has an advantage over wizard, warlock, and if played correctly, barbarian

[deft hedge]

Yeah it just really doesn't seem to fit the theme of the game. Double jumping in the cramped crypts, or in the goblin halls.

Very strange perk for this game. IMO

[strong grotto]

What advantage precise? Traps? Situational and require time to place, which you often don't have, especially with barbs. Range? Works only on open locations and if barbarian doesn't have his throwables. Slow on hit? The further the target is - the harder to hit the legs. The closer the target is - the more useless your bow becomes. So what advantage?

[soft nebula]

yeah but thats boring, a more dramatic entrance like theyre srceaming echoing through the chamber is so much cooler

[graceful beacon]

against wizard you out dps easily. you can easily dodge Franny axes with some distance (something barb can't do to arrows) you also out dps warlock. these are advantages
Understand that ranger has been balanced for a while. he doesn't need a buff or a rework. if you go in trios you will see he has a place in countering wizard. one thing thats nice about rangers movespeed is that he can choose his fights

[strong grotto]

I've never said he needs a buff. A better choice of melee, yes, buff? No. He isn't at advantage though.

[graceful beacon]

I don't understand what you don't get. he has an advantage against wizard. wizards are squishy and don't do enough damage to kill a ranger in a 1v1. he doesn't need a better choice of melee. he already has a spear and arming sword, which are fine weapons

[strong grotto]

Name me ONE CLASS, that aren't at the advantage against wizard at the moment?

[graceful beacon]

pdr fighter. pdr cleric. they are too slow to catch up to wizards. if you look into the higher ranks, you will see a TON of wizards. they are really good against pdr fighters

Everytime I see you in this discord i lose more faith in humanity

[void panther]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/527851/allow-wizards-to-use-all-spells
Please check it out and give suggestions

[hallow flare]

Just give them more, new spells

[inland haven]

I mean if wizards could have a perk where they could double their spells for less total damage or less scaling that could be cool
Name: “past scholar” or “spell mastery” cays the devs do like to put mastery in their perk names
(coming from a non-wizard player)

[graceful beacon]

bad idea

[grave pike]

Can I just get a perk that allows fighters to one shot barbs 🤷🏼‍♂️ id only use it on them promise

[ornate fable]

I wish the rank progress for rewards would track by peak rank instead of final rank

[haughty harbor]

nerf rogue it's oppressive to the barbarian meta

[manic lantern]

Got 3 ranged hits off on a warlock with xbow and 2 throwing knives, went in to melee to finish and dark reflection + 1 non-BOC Kris dagger killed me. I had 118hp. Pretty lame death

Dark reflection needs some kind of indicator on the character model

The model can turn into a demon 8 ft tall but can’t glow purple or something to indicate Dark Reflection is off cooldown?

[rain shoal]

Let the bard use the club because it would be really funny, pleaseeeee

[strong grotto]

WHAT!?!?

• Barbarian can now equip the Round Shield.
  ARE YOU INSANE!?!?? He is not only the best in the offense, NOW he is also good at defense!??! WHAT. ARE. YOU. SMOKING?!?!

[hallow flare]

Good changes all around devs, keep it up 👍

[strong grotto]

They just OFFICIALLY broken the barbarian. Now I can't even try to defend this crap. This is bullshit. NOW he needs to be nerfed to the ground to even have a right to be called somewhat balanced.

[halcyon perch]

rangers trap mastery is pretty useless imo. Maybe if you could place them silently it could be a good addition to the perk.

[merry kestrel]

The problem w/ Meditate isn't how useful it currently is, it's that Resting is "just as good" because you have to sit down regardless.

Let wizards move around while meditating and it's suddenly a useful skill. Like a Clarity Potion but a skill.

[upbeat plaza]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/532665/barbed-not-nerfed

[topaz lark]

To make it no op during this meditate skill where you can move and do other things make it so that spells casted during “meditate” have reduced damage or higher cast times

[merry kestrel]

or make it act like a Second Wind but Meditate, just remove the charges and put it on a 30s or 60s cooldown

[topaz lark]

That actually sounds good probably 60 or higher tho meditate can recover a lot in a short time

[static turret]

meow :3

[forest tundra]

why do this to warlock:(

[glacial sphinx]

torture mastery change was needed for late game, but they should probably get some better early game recovery or maybe reduce health cost on CoP

[spark phoenix]

make the skeleton not bleed pls, i want to refund because of this

[mystic yoke]

Calm down dude it's just the marrow

[dull sinew]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/482571/add-milk-to-the-game

[real trellis]

Torture mastery is just a badly designed perk that has seen changes over and over that do nothing but make it impossible to use in the early game with low gear while still being too strong when fully geared out. Just get rid of it and go back to the drawing board on how to help warlocks sustain health with hp cost spells.

[dusky kernel]

I said it jokingly in #warlock earlier but, like, what if TM only healed recoverable health and had its ratio buffed back somewhere between .25 and .5? 🤔
Bad idea? 🤔🤔

[real trellis]

Hell, maybe give them a spell that just puts a trolls blood-esque buff on them. Slow but consistent healing over time that isn't effected by magic healing at all preferably.

[real trellis]

Not the worst fix I've heard of, though I think in any case where TM exists, vampirism needs to be changed to a flat +2-5 Mheal instead of 20% because at low gear 20% means almost nothing but fully bis'd out its quite significant

[gritty thorn]

let wizard and cleric regenerate spells after 30 seconds of not casting a spell, that (rapidly) accelerates the longer they don't cast. allows for pve and looting etc where you can actually play the game, but still doesn't cause spell regeneration during combat.

[merry kestrel]

I think all warlock spells should cost HP to cast but should recover HP if they hit. remove torture mastery or make it improve HP regen'd on it.

[real trellis]

That's also a solution I've considered

[merry kestrel]

It turns their spells into a skill shot and there's no infinite healing if they get chunked. They'll refund their cost if they keep hitting but they won't recover if they get trapped and so can't be immortal.

[real trellis]

The heal should be over time and about 120% of the spell cost to compensate for spells that do not deal direct damage

[static rock]

Could y'all make a new role for update pings it's kinda annoying getting a ping nearly every day 💀

[sudden kernel]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/532715/golden-scarf-for-warlock

upvote plsss

[fiery saddle]

fix plng lock server pls

[stable sky]

Make other currency (KEYS CANDY etc) for market. F.e 4 keys 200 gold 20 candy.

[glass ivy]

Can't play on EUROPE

[tawdry turtle]

I can't play on US west even though i love on the west coast. what is happening. for some reason though, it allows me to que up east asia servers

[peak reef]

I suggest making Public Test Builds, giving a code to players which could use in their Game Launcher so they could test the new update/content and see if is stable and works as intended before patching the base game.

[blissful quiver]

cant play na servers

[plain sedge]

Fix the warlock spell "Evil Eye."

[sharp cape]

REMOVE DARK REFLECTION OR MAKE IT NOT WORK WITH DARK SHARDS
YOURE A BAD DEV IF YOU THINK HITTING SOMEONE WHO ISNT EVEN LOOKING AT YOU SHOULD DO OVER OF YOUR HALF HP

[west marlin]

Why am I getting penalized for leaving a normal games lobby... I use it to reset my default kit. God. You guys fucking suck.

[merry kestrel]

to deal with queue snipers and kit hunters.

[granite plinth]

add game to steam again i got a brothera that refuses to buy it unless its on steam or epic games

[west marlin]

I just said normal games. I understand Highroller, but who are you stream sniping in normal games, bozo.

[merry kestrel]

I understand, you're sad you cant preteam with your buddies now 🙏

[west marlin]

I play solos buddy. Also you might be mentally handicapped

[merry kestrel]

If you say so

[idle crater]

theres nothing more fun than someone walking through a little hole in the stone wall for you to flip the lever trapping them in with you

or that gate in 4 square, bait one to push then seperate them with the gate lever

[idle crater]

make the green gas clouds from zombies explode if you get a torch too close(damaged by it while holding torch), or throw the torch into the cloud.

it could be like a flashbang type thing for surprises or it could do some damage

[haughty harbor]

i suggest you fix the servers

[terse vale]

bro just buy some stuff from merchants they have greys and whites often. adapt to the changes because you are playing an early access game, i think iron mace is doing pretty well but either way they def do not suck.

[merry kestrel]

Meditate should be like a Clarity Potion but a skill, let wizards move while it's active

[void panther]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/527851/allow-wizards-to-use-all-spells
Please check it out and give suggestions

[wicked grove]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/532146/give-fighter-a-lunge-attack-disarm-attack-jump-attack-ect

[west marlin]

@terse vale I can only buy 2 Hunting Traps from the merchant per 30 minutes. I enter a Normal game then leave right away to get 2 more.

[haughty harbor]

the servers got EVEN WORSE KEKW

they are probably gonna roll back too what a joke. (apparrently a dupe is ongoing)

i literally just made an item disapear in my inventory........ it's gone gone

[spring spoke]

i have the worst internet in my party and im the only one that can que ;D

[midnight field]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/532756/glowing-effect-on-portals-portal-visibility vote up

[graceful frost]

this is what they said might happen when they release marketplace, same thing with the big content patch. It was rushed and un polished to get it out on time for the players demands. They mentioned this was likely to happen

[fresh plinth]

I just did a speed test and my internet is fine but its giving me the latency thing again.

[haughty harbor]

i want this rollback to happen asap i have like 3 free days left before end of season and i'm exemplar 3 (just fell out of 2 from lag) i need time to grind ap and today was a wash since half the day was maint and the other half was unplayable solo with the lag

[arctic lagoon]

Magic resistance should affect debuffs

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/532275/magic-resistance-should-affect-debuffs

[restive cargo]

hey does anyone know when next season/ wipe starts?

[balmy latch]

Suggestion : IP ban every piece of shit who exploits dupe glitches. Instead of having to continuously roll back servers, remove all the bullshit people got, and ban them for abusing exploits for gains causing so much bullshit

Can't imagine continuously rolling back servers after updates is good for player base.

[haughty harbor]

No rollback after dupe????? No rollback after shit servers got made worse????? @keen onyx must be trolling while he appears offline. I suggest you rollback or just give everyone the demigod rewards

[peak jackal]

if theres no rollback alright i guess i dont care since items and shit dont matter to me i just want to grind ap so i can have the skins and i cant play the game from this "latency too high" on us servers so i cant get ap for the skins.

[sudden mesa]

the game needs a wipe bad

[ebon rock]

roll back everything to this morning, ive died all day long due to high server lag

[azure bison]

anyone else cant get into game on any server?

[strong grotto]

Why would you need to catch up to wizard as a fighter? Ever heard about crossbows? Or bows? Have you missed, that fighter is better ranger? As for cleric - one judgement and wizard is done. If not - just move to more closed area, where he can't utilize his ranged advantage or chip you away with AoE. The moment he decides to move to you closer he is dead. Overall, wizard can either stall cleric or hold him off for a while, rarely win.

[dusty sonnet]

is EU frankfurt down ??

[azure bison]

yes

[brazen token]

Maybe make it so people can play on their home servers again? As much as I love trying to get neat limited cosmetics while at the complete mercy of Tokyo or Singapore's ping, I'd rather just not.

Stability really is important, especially when you're offering goodies to players and the timer is ticking down for them.

[muted crag]

Yo lot, let me runs something by you all. What if we could type in the amount of gold we want to use in a trade instead of using bags of 50?

[graceful frost]

its been a few hours, chill out, the devs are aware of it and it happened before they are asleep rn after hours on end of working on the game. Just give it a bit

[last garden]

Bring back mh warlock

[brazen token]

its more frustration with the stability issues that have plagued the game for several patches. I know its early access, but stability is important. Things should be getting better with most patches, not worse.

[graceful frost]

Yeah I agree, and its also pretty unclear what the issues are to some extent. For example, its unclear weather its there servers/server hosting, or if its there code, or something else.

[coral heron]

why is my ping lock keeping me from playing in my own region, but japan is fine??? i should be in US west, i live in Utah

[novel prism]

I love this game so much, even if I won't get demigod, but all I could wish this game is stability and best performance. Im sure thats hardest part in gamedevelopment, but I believe in you @zealous linden.
also hope game will be back on steam soon, and goblin 3 map adventure also)

[strong grotto]

Isn't Japan is US colony since WW2? Enjoy.

[strong grotto]

If you troll, at least TRY to sound believable, old man.

[wooden ermine]

I think we should buff barbarians

pretty sure you live in japan buster @coral heron

[strong grotto]

Buff lute's melee damage. And add one more swing in the animation, Buff the perk to raise the damage of the instruments to 75%, better 100%, I want for bards be new barbarians, but with more style and less monkey.

[granite plinth]

thats not the devs 😭

[granite plinth]

i remember when before they nerfed weapon damage modifiers people were hitting 200 dmg headshots with lute

[strong grotto]

Yes. I want it back, but better. Faster.

[heady yacht]

cant play in eu (my home server) or any us servers

[wheat mirage]

Piercing Shrill and Banshee's Howl should swap names,
Then make Banshee's Howl deal more conditional damage:
"On completion, fires a wave of sound in the target direction. Deals X damage to the first target hit. Damage and scaling both increase based on the difference between the target and your current health percentage, capping at a 70% difference"

Makes Banshee's Howl based on predicting death. The more % health you have over the target, the more it deals. If you have the same or less HP than them, it is essentially useless.
This makes it a ranged finisher song with conditional use

[strong grotto]

Like the idea, but Banshees never killed. They are only wept for those who ABOUT TO DIE. It needs to be a premonition of death, not the death itslef.

Thus I believe it should make all your physical and magical resistances reverted, as if you had 56% of PDR - you will have -56% of PDR for the duration of effect. That will make encountering fighters be at least possible as bard.

Not even to mention the panic it will ensue to see a bard with his flute out of his pants...

[limber elbow]

Another extremely miserable error in the game was created, instead of getting close or based on a certain distance, it will provoke the monsters, but now the monsters automatically break down the door and automatically push from another room and drag them to the room where they are clearing monsters.

[wheat mirage]

The downside of that is it's not really conditional (and very powerful), and it also stacks with Shriek of Weakness's existing -30 armor (and -30 gives an idea of how strong -56% would be by comparison :P)

[strong grotto]

They will do different things. One debuffs for set ammount, while ather is to be a tankbuster device.

[wheat mirage]

Maybe, but it's too strong for a Bard spell with no conditionals.
To be clear, 30 flat armor is probably about 5% PDR, if that
So anyone with >2.5% PDR loses more with Banshee's than Shriek

I am not caluclating for negative armor here, but just to compare strength

Basically most basic gear junk armor's would fare worse against a reversal of armor than a flat -30

Not saying that couldn't work for another class FYI, but I think as a Bard Song, it's too strong. My goal was to replace the currently intentionally weak bard damage song with a more conditionally decent damage song

(Also, for Banshee's I'm more following the D&D spell effect over the lore)

[strong grotto]

Shriek should just debuff attack and move speed then. To be fair, I don't like the way songs are right now, they require too much of attention to keep them constantly up, especially solo, I wish for there would be more impactfull, quick songs to do damage and to crowd control. Maybe like sound wave push people back. Also, the Shriek right now is basically must have with no alternatives, while I would like there was some options to have and feeling like you trolling.

Bad take. Please don't involve this kind of mental issue politics into this game.

[wheat mirage]

Bard songs need an overhaul. But I'm being realistic in trying to fill in a gap in the current songs (actual conditional use cases instead of 100% use because it's free)
Shriek can't reduce MS, or what is Lament of Languor doing? Attack-only, maybe. But then what? We need to play 2 songs before attacking because now we have 2 100% use-case songs with no conditionals
And you can believe I am trolling with actual suggestions due to disagreeing with them I suppose

[weak zenith]

Lol, crybaby

[strong grotto]

Nah, I was kind off trolling on this one. I was serious about his songs being bad though. They need to rework his songs.

[wheat mirage]

Fair enough. I'll probably put it up as a full suggestion at some point. If nothing else, Bards need more reason to play conditionally. And they need to have less access to buffs so each buff can be stronger in itself

[strong grotto]

From anyone with functioning brain, mate. Though I am not expecting this from an old dude posing flirting anime girl in a discord chat. That was also the last crap I've read from you. Blocked.

[wheat mirage]

Oh man, I blocked them ages ago xD
But mainly for the cringe factor

[strong grotto]

I mean... I have my hopes still up for humanity. No matter how thin that hope is. As for our topic, the bards as a class supposed to be a Jack-of-all-trades. Currently though, they feel like a discount mage. There is no skills worth having but song memory and you are always going uphill in any PvP scenario, aside of some specific builds like 2-crossbows, flute and 50% utility speed perk. Like there is too much of power inside the songs he has, instead of being able to play without half or with no at all.

Also, ALL bard does requires a LOT of time. You want to heal up? Play the song and rest a while. Want to buff yourself? Again, play 5 songs, making all know where you are and feel like an actual class for the next 100 seocnds or so, before you need to, once again, reaply those buffs. Damage songs? You will root yourself to the place for about 10 seconds, enjoy being a sitting duck. He needs to have quicker options.

[wheat mirage]

I see them as a jack of all master of none. And because the spells have no limits and no conditionals, they're all exceptionally weak
The Bard can break barrels with Lute, Ranged with Drum, Parry with Flute, throw axes and knives, crossbow and survival bow, even hand crossbow. He has Rapier (with mastery) and Falchion, he can also use a shield and turn invisible. He can even provoke monsters, open locked chests and open doors while running.

The bard possibly does so many things that the songs needed to be extra weak

In fairness though, three of the mentioned things are his utility songs. And the utility songs I believe are spot on

[strong grotto]

Yes, he is like that. All you've said is true. He is jack of all, but no mastery. He just uses to much time doing all those things and is useless without having those buffs on him all the time. This is exactly what I am talking about, BTW. Raise the quality of songs, give him better, actually usefull skills, that will make him good at one thing, instead of locking all his utility behind the songs while making him crap without those.

[wheat mirage]

I think his main issue is the pointless 100% buff songs. But no suggestion sticks with those. The quick fix would be only allowing one group and one self buff at once, then increasing the power of the buffs

[strong grotto]

More like the fact you actually needed ALL those buffs in order to feel their impact. If there was like a general improvement song, while all others were a support-like and debuff, crowd control and damage - it would've been more interesting.

[merry kestrel]

Make Meditate behave more like Second Wind but for spells, and on a CD instead of needing to recharge. Meditate isn't taken because Resting forces you to stop moving and Wizards already have an abysmal PvE clear time

[strong grotto]

This is better IMO, upvote if agree:
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/529465/fixing-the-wizards-for-good

[merry kestrel]

Even better than trying to fix Meditate would just be a perk that gives Wizard spells +3 or so more uses but blocks out 10 spell. That way the other skills may see use too, and meditate becomes useful by needing to refill more spell slots

[graceful beacon]

it's pretty obvious you only play solos because these takes are terrible. a fighter can't just pull out a crossbow mid fight. in duos he just gets rushed the second he does this and gets hit. even in solos, he still gets countered by wizard. a wizard can survive even a headshot crossbow bolt and can magic missile easily. they are too slow to dodge the magic missile. if they try to push, they will get missiled or outran. you also said cleric could judgement the wizard and kill him. what?? not only is judgement easily baitable, but also any decent wizard isn't getting close enough to a cleric to let him hit a judgement. he also can't chip you down with holy strike. holy strike can be consistently crouch jumped over, and if you are paying attention it will never hit you. pdr cleric can try to tank with heals, and will get missiled, he cant judgement unless you are way too close, and the cleric cant just decide to "move closer". A full pdr cleric build has 70-75 movement speed with weapons out and can easily be outran by a wizard. you also made the take that fighter is a better ranger. this is simply wrong. when he uses bows, he has one less perk and has -10% power bonus. he also doesn't have the perks ranger has, being faster reload, increased damage with bows, faster while how is drawn, etc. a base kit fighter with a bow is just worse than ranger as he is slower and has less damage. a pdr fighter with a bow is too slow to kite like a ranger can. this is not to say fighter with a bow isn't good, it just can't possibly take the position of ranger.

[wheat mirage]

I don't reckon a general improvement song would be good though. Then it's just one song you play all the time, at which point it may as well be a passive of the class. This is why Bards need tradeoffs and conditionals. If they want to gain buff X, they need to give up on having buff Y & Z. And they need conditionals for power. A song you can play to good effect all the time must be weak by design. A song that has power under specific circumstances can not only be impactful, but also isn't necessarily played all the time.

That was the idea behind the Banshee remake. It's not useful at all times, the power has a clear conditional state. But it's also not a state you can guarantee (you don't absolutely know their health). Along with that it became a projectile attack so it needs aiming while playing.
All of this combined would allow for a damage song that can actually deal damage, with good scaling, under the right circumstance, while still being spammable

[tawny remnant]

EXACTLY + plate sucks ass because it doesnt give u +5 vigor like leather and you cannot chase anyone and cannot outrun if someone wants to fight you you have to take that fight.

@strong grotto

[graceful beacon]

right. you can't chase or outrun a wizard, and you can't out dps with a crossbow.

[tawny remnant]

yes since crossbows got nerfed dmg wise, and by distance the damage drops, so double nerfs.

[granite plinth]

I think it'd be pretty out of place for this game but can you please explain to me how someone's gendr is "poIitical"

[strong grotto]

Tell me how it isn't these days? Or you are one of those rainbow looneys? Then you'd better to block me, cuz I am not tolerating nor entertaining idiots, who try to play "believe and pretend" in the most stupid attempt of defying the way this planet works for untold millennia, just to get some social scores.

[granite plinth]

Oh my god dude get better insults please 😭 Humans used to run around naked and hit each other over the head with Big sticks, do you think we should go back to that? Because thats what it sounds like

[strong grotto]

Piss off looney.

[granite plinth]

You have literally no arguments alr then

[strong grotto]

Here's where you made a mistake. I've already told you: 1 - I am not entertaining looneys. 2 - it is YOU need to prove me, that there is more than "M" and "W", not another way around. Thus it is impossible for you and conversations is already done. World will not suddenly change its fundamental laws just because bunch of mouth breathers got high and decided so. Get real and get a grip. Blocked.

[granite plinth]

Byee 👋Talking to you was really entertaining

[vivid spear]

LOL

[granite plinth]

Piss off looney.

[vivid spear]

I'm not dissing Transgender, I'm dissing this dude

[granite plinth]

I know i just think "Piss off looney." is rlly fucking funny

[vivid spear]

"you need to prove to me" is such a crazy statement because inters*x already exists

[elfin sun]

Piss on looney

[vivid spear]

true

[strong grotto]

Translation: we already have enough of monkeys running around playing pretend. Though, I am glad you also showed yourself being infected with this mental crap. Blocked.
P.S. I am not dissing transes. I am dissing them pushing themselves being "norm".

[elfin sun]

Fundamental rule.....that was broken before your version of it was even invented

[elfin sun]

What's wrong with wanting to be seen as normal

[strong grotto]

Uh-huh, sure. Next thing you will tell me sky is red, and man can bear a child. Blocked. They want to see themsleves normal exactly because they ARE NOT.

[elfin sun]

🫃🌆

[vivid spear]

Keep your echochamber going bud

[granite plinth]

oh my god how butthurt can you be you said like 20 minutes ago that youd ignore the "rainbow loonies"

[merry kestrel]

girl, what? what are you even talking about

[strong grotto]

Nothing, move along and do not fish for more. This is not the chat to even try and talk about it. Just ignore them. I already am. This is for game's discussion.

[still finch]

lol

[vivid spear]

You started it Rakshazi what? LMAO

[merry kestrel]

I think they should include rainbow capes in the game to support world issues.

Suggestion: add rainbow capes.

[vivid spear]

It was an innocent suggestion to add a rainbow cape for support and you had the deficiency to make it pol and about illness and rights

[strong grotto]

Another looney bloked then. Get help, mental kind.

[merry kestrel]

I'm sorry, what's looney about wanting to support LGBT rights? Do you have something against men who like men?

[still finch]

dude is seething rn blocking everyone

[vivid spear]

Just report him honestly don't take the bait

Talks about others getting offended and they just want an echochamber to themselves

[merry kestrel]

Let him dig his own hole.

[strong grotto]

Not everyone. Just those who can't tell reality from the imaginary la-la-land apart.

[still finch]

eww dont @ me

[vivid spear]

What's reality from about 12 steps into the dungeon

[still finch]

dude plays a fantasy game with magic in it. lol

[granite plinth]

Its really funny tho im losing my shit over Piss off looney. and Get real and get a grip. Blocked

[strong grotto]

ewww don't type at all, lol.

[vivid spear]

They're probably a rakshaza and got two left hands

[still finch]

Translation: youre disgusting lol and plz go play cod or something where your kind is more welcome

[vivid spear]

A rainbow cape would be cool though

[strong grotto]

Yes, I am playing THE GAME. It is not the same as twistibg reality and forcing me to believe YOUR crap, lmao!

[merry kestrel]

Dude doesn't believe men can like men. 🤔

[vivid spear]

Nobody is forcing you to believe in normal human standards bud you're living in delusion.

[still finch]

Blocked. Magic isnt real and you cant tell me otherwise.

[granite plinth]

omg stop arguing already you shouldve stopped after like 3 messages as you said

[strong grotto]

News flash - my "kind" is welcomed everywhere. Unlike yours. The only place yours are welcomed are in the mental psychiatrics xDDD

[vivid spear]

That's the message I wanted to report to discord for warranting hate based on identity really

[still finch]

idk about you i am generally liked by my peers, but i also dont spew shit from my mouth

[merry kestrel]

Please explain more about what your kind is.

[granite plinth]

Its those "Straights" who want us to accept them as being normal

[merry kestrel]

Idk I've met some straights who were really, REALLY loose with the definition 🤔

[vivid spear]

I'm not arguing anymore I was trying to see what type of message we could get from them, also hey nothing wrong with being straight or c i s, chill out homies

[strong grotto]

What a coincidence! Me too! Though, I'd check your teeth next time. You may not "spew shit", but there is definitely some. At least you lie to yourself and those around for sure. Blocked.

[merry kestrel]

<@&988703997378584596> ok but fr why is this guy still here

[vivid spear]

I've already reached out to some/one

[merry kestrel]

He literally went on an anti-LGBT hate rant because someone wanted rainbow capes.

[still finch]

terminally online mental patient lonely dude spews his opinions online IN THE WRONG CHAT

[vivid spear]

Literally the moment I saw that first message from the terminally online mental case

[still finch]

go back to 4chan

[fickle plover]

It is being handled :)

[merry kestrel]

Make hunter traps a slow instead of hard CC

make Meditate act like second wind but for spells so wizards can reasonably run it

give wizards rapiers and a perk that grants them +3 spell uses but restricts spell memory 2

give fighters a 2H perk (faster weapon drawspeed or buffed hitslow, idc, just something for 2 handers please)

give clerics a longsword perk for the perfect paladin roleplay

make tumble into a dash that's actually faster than walking but has like a 3s CD

condense bard songs and make instruments modify the length/intensity/ease/damage of the song

extend frost skelly recovery frames, they attack too frequently and it feels inconsistent

make HMA have -20 MS instead of -30 so barbs have choices to run with round shield

make utility items only fit in utility slots to avoid pharmacy and throwables meta

dance emote

rainbow capes

[still finch]

as a bard main i kinda hate that utility items part. i only have one free slot, and two if i dump torches

[merry kestrel]

the idea behind the song condensing and the instrument redesign is so that you, as a bard, just have to choose ONE instrument "do i want longer lasting, or stronger, songs?"

and the songs being condensed would be like "Song of Haste" for MS and action speed, or "song of power" for damage output. the underlying idea is you can only have one buff active at a time so you, as the bard, have to choose which one to give your party at a given time

So like before you engage you use the Haste song, then in the middle of the fight you switch to power, but then say you start losing or become flanked you can use a Song of Defense to increase PDR and MDR but you lose the power

[vivid spear]

I like all your suggestions

[still finch]

lowkey i dont know how to fix bard to make it feel up to par with the rest of the classes, but i dont think thats it. maybe making buffs be more team based instead of solo buffs, but that would also be busted so like idk man

but I would personally LOVE some empty utility slots. carrying a campfire or surg kit without a 4 square of inv space and trying to switch potions or something is a nightmare

[merry kestrel]

So way way back in D&D 3.x, the Bard had a bunch of dif songs he could perform but the party could only benefit from one at a time, because the bard had to actively play the song for the party to benefit. That's where the idea comes from

[granite plinth]

Im not being serious

[still finch]

Yeah, but in D&D bards also have spells and subclasses

[merry kestrel]

in 3.x they had "some" spells but they were primarily instrument players. you're thinking of 5e

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm

[still finch]

they get up to 6th level spells.

[granite plinth]

Bard really does need buffs

[merry kestrel]

that's effectively half casters in 3.5

[still finch]

THE FUTURE IS NOW OLD MAN

[merry kestrel]

Bard doesn't need buffs - there's some broken builds with bard. They need a redesign, just like rogues

@still finch in 5e they overcompensated for Bards being bad historically by making them better spellcasters than wizards. 🤷‍♀️

[still finch]

lol sorry nah i never played any version of DND other than 5e. I am currently playing a bladesinger wizard/artificer in my Curse of Strahd campaign and I feel extremely strong.

bards need something. i am not quite sure what it is. we need too many stats. literally every stat besides will

and now that will is tied to mag interact, its still not like an awful stat. i just think like most other classes need 2 or three stats to optimize

[granite plinth]

I think the biggest problem with bards is we need 3 DIFFERENT attributes for our songs + stats for combat while being one of the weakest classes with low gear

[still finch]

needing vig, movespeed, str, agi, dex, resourcefulness, and knowledge is kinda hard to stat for.

meanwhile barb stacks movespeed and wins pretty much every fight minus maybe pdr fighter, and with savage roar might as well win that one too

[vivid spear]

That's because bladesinger is frontloaded wizard

[granite plinth]

Why did god make me a bard main

[still finch]

@granite plinth because he hates us

[vivid spear]

is that a frog as a name by the way

[granite plinth]

Transitioning to being a barbarian player and hitting demigod in 3 hours

[meager jasper]

The warlock changes are completely unwanted in this patch. You've ruined healing, and nerfed an ability that was already terrible.

[granite plinth]

all the warlock changes this hotfix were very stupid

[vivid spear]

you mean bolt of darkness going up in cost from 2 to 3 in demon form while you have full mspd and can heal if it hits

[still finch]

you must play bard perfectly to win most fights, while barb/fighter push q+w, locks push w and right click multiple times per second, rogues landmine, rangers two shot you, and idk wizards are the same as bards as you have to play like a god to win fights. idk im probably just bad at the game, but this is how bard feels rn

[meager jasper]

I personally think warlock is too strong at a high level. It's a great caster and it's super fast. Hydrain is honestly way more of a problem than curse.

[vivid spear]

the moment they take hydra off as a target for curses it'll be fine

[meager jasper]

bolt of darkness didn't cost 2. It costed 0 And it was literally the only draw of demonform before, and it was still weaker than a naked warlock's dark bolt.

[vivid spear]

Then ig that wasn't working as intended since the hotfix says from 2 - 3

[granite plinth]

Nope. it costed health

[meager jasper]

It was in the tooltip so no

[vivid spear]

idk man two peeps are saying it costed health it must've costed health

[meager jasper]

Well either way, that's god-awful. And the one thing they didn't nerf was make it life drain on range despite the tooltip saying it's melee only.

[granite plinth]

The tooltip was just straight up wrong, i tested demon form against troll and it does indeed cost health
I wouldnt trust the tooltips because at launch demon form said it lasted 0 seconds lmao

[merry kestrel]

The song condensation imo would be good for removing Knowledge as a requirement - only 4 songs instead of 20

It would also mean you only have one skill and don't need extra perks, except maybe a perk to stack two songs at half effectiveness 🤔

It would allow some breathing room in perk and skill choices. tying the strength of a song half to an instrument also removes a lot of the scaling problems.

I disagree with strength being a core stat. The stat prio for any melee class is MS, Health, PDR, Damage, in that order. Ofc if you want buffs you have to worry about the other parts of the equation too but those are the main 4 stats you need, and you don't need any main stats for any of them.

I think most likely IM had a grand idea about how bard was going to work and now that it's implemented, it's becoming increasingly messy

[vivid spear]

Its a class that uses health as a resource and gets it back when they deal damage with spells

[meager jasper]

Yeah and the burning effect alone is really heinous.

[granite plinth]

The song bloat is crazy

[meager jasper]

If the burn effect on demon form wasn't there it would probably still be terrible, if you ask me. It's way too weak with its chip damage.

[vivid spear]

What bard needs is song skills that are 1 button presses to buff bc rn I don't see any other reason to not run double song memory, and with low knowledge and lots of song bloat, it kinda sucks tbh

[merry kestrel]

when i played bard i just picked my favorite instrument and only took those songs

[vivid spear]

I did the same and half the time it was the flute

[pallid vector]

bard strongest solo class in the game

[merry kestrel]

dichotomy of man

[vivid spear]

idk, more skills to bard that lets them play as solely buffers/debuffers or even run songless and make them more like panache dex fighters

I legit feel like bard blows so god damn hard without songs, and with songs they're like, a fighter with a bit more spd

[granite plinth]

low gear slayer fighter is better than low gear bard

[vivid spear]

in solo I mean, theyre not great, theyre just terrible because they start at a lower threshold of whats normal for a class alr

[merry kestrel]

personally, if I had my way, I'd redesign all of the classes around the idea of "Specialty pillars"

So like for Barbarian, it would be something like

1. Berserker (stronger w/ less health)
2. Bruiser (huge health pool)
3. Viking (armor and SnS)
4. brawler (high impact)

Right now they have a lot of perks that are just "more damage lol" and they lean REALLY HARD into 1 and 2, and some 3.

I'd make maybe 2 perks for each pillar, and 1-2 skills for each pillar, and redesign EACH class like that

[granite plinth]

oh yeah more damage lol is a big with barbarian

[merry kestrel]

Then if I came up with a bunch of pillars, perks, or skills that suddenly started bloating a class, I could instead start consolidating those into a NEW class that doesn't step on someone else's toes

[vivid spear]

I'm pretty sure thats what the class training is meant to be if it ever gets released

[pallid vector]

i disagree, SoW with song of war perk or whatever it is, is so strong

[merry kestrel]

I'm going to hold my breath until I see it. Not that the devs aren't great and care about their product, but they're more likely going to release a trainer that "makes sense" to them but will fall flat on implementation.

[vivid spear]

ah yes what is it 3 damage for 3 seconds after song play counting the weapon swap speed

yes that is an epic perk truely

[pallid vector]

+3 wep dmg is a big deal, thats +6dmg on headshots

[vivid spear]

thats 4.5 on headshots

[pallid vector]

tru its 150, very much so, its S tier perk

[granite plinth]

4.5 is pretty substantial

[vivid spear]

yeah I know, but how long does it last again serious question, like 3-6 seconds?

[pallid vector]

fights last 2-3 seconds in melee

[vivid spear]

You have to play a song, swap weapons, get in range, get a hit in? idk lots of variables

[merry kestrel]

more like 20 usually but it feels like 2-3

[granite plinth]

The 50% switch speed perk is huge and its best on shriek of weakness imo which you need to be close for

[merry kestrel]

suggestion turning into bard chat

[vivid spear]

then again I don't have a lvl 15 solo bard

true see idk shit about bard but it feels like its fucking ROUGH without songs whereas ranger can just "i have a bow gimme 50% of ur health plus a ton of distance"

[meager jasper]

I feel that way about all their major updates. I still don't understand why it "makes sense" to them that a demon should attack with unmodified fists and unmodified dark bolts, as it was on its first release. Fists +5 is still less than you would expect from a good dagger after the slight buff.

It's absurd, mathematically, even on paper.

[granite plinth]

Demon form isnt good at all

[meager jasper]

Yes, it's bad, and it makes me worry a lot for Druid.

[vivid spear]

Ive seen a lot of people say "just get +10 all" like it isn't an effort to find and kill 10 mobs

[meager jasper]

I've had +10 all on the demon, and it's not super hard. But +10 to your damage stats is a few extra points of damage when the base damage is 20.

[pallid vector]

not in geared lobbies, its spacing for 17 seconds, then actually fight for 2-3 seconds

[meager jasper]

If it was +1 phys and magic damage for each soul, that would be interesting.

[vivid spear]

we need a paladin

or a cleric longsword/flail weapon

[merry kestrel]

if you don't consider the spacing as part of the fight then that's a different problem. the fight starts as soon as you hear footsteps

[meager jasper]

Druid will be next.

[merry kestrel]

Longsword perk for Clerics that gives them +10% magic power (or something) on a successful block alongside longsword proficiency

[granite plinth]

Flail would go hard

[merry kestrel]

Flail would be too goofy, it'd have to have a pre-rendered swing animation so the phyics don't bug out

[granite plinth]

Yeah for sure, also hitting the sweet spot would prob be really hard

[hot hemlock]

Would be the same as any other mace

[merry kestrel]

I remember the first time I found the flail in Elden Ring and I used its AoW and thought I was being trolled by fromsoft because it just spins it in front of you

[vivid spear]

I just want to live out my dream as the flail shield spellless cleric that somehow gets stacks on stacks on a one-off smite rather than a weapon buff for 8 seconds

[merry kestrel]

smite+judgement goes hard unironically, main hand warhammer+shield, offhand warmaul

[mystic cedar]

I really would like them to make it so we can pick and play the crypt map and if you want more loot in the crypts you play ruins then go down.

[robust hedge]

Remove inspect in lobbies.

[modern night]

Allow players to inspect others in the Lobby before you queue up. Would love to check out my friends gear while we chill at the table.

[tranquil dagger]

and add back in voice chat so I can RP being a bartender while I wait

[teal tusk]

Potions should stop working if you take damage. Only useful OUTSIDE of combat to heal back up.

Potions are now REQUIRED for any PvP fight. They should be used outside of combat to heal you up. If you drink a potion and take any damage the effect of the potions is removed. This is similar to how Dota handles this. It is so people don't just Chug potions nonstop in a PvP battle.

[pulsar creek]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/531792/blue-green-normal-lobbies please go upvote if you want too see green/ blue normal lobbies

[woven oxide]

Add a main central boss to Frost Caves, make it inferno for goblin caves. Rotate crypts back into the main maps and get an inferno map to compliment ruins?

[shell loom]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/532934/remove-hand-hits-from-the-game
Upvote if you agree doing half your dmg because of hand hits is dumb

[eternal dock]

Make it so it gives your second wind back if fat fingered in lobby

[granite plinth]

i had a 7k gold gear kit and there was a team of 6 players in solo. i ambushed 1 of them and he died then i ran but the 5 of them cornered me and held all of my doors so i had no escape. how do i deal with this since not even a report button popped up ???????????? they didn't know i was wearing bis mid set and they were all geared. it was 1 warlock 2 rangers 1 barbarian 1 fighter and lastly a bard whom i found first and killed.

MAKE IT HARDER TO RANK UP AND MAKE KILLS WORTH A LOT MORE POINTS THAN LOOT.

[meager obsidian]

Hey guys, Ranger Arrows are still bugging/missing in the starter-kit.

[granite plinth]

make 1 kill worth 300 points and make it so you need a lot more points to rank up than at the moment and YOU STOPPED ALL TEAMING IRONMACE. until then ur solo mode is a FUCKING JOKE and better REMOVE IT

[dense kayak]

How about a limited daily PVE Mode that people could run like once to thrice a day and not have to worry about PvP for that run

[swift isle]

BUFF ROGUE PLS

[azure bison]

@swift isle no?>

[swift isle]

yes

[azure bison]

nerf ranger

[mellow osprey]

can we get some kind of outline on rolls that are maxed i cant keep up

[small furnace]

A tooltip that shows roll limits would be pretty cool, but probably won't be added.

[junior jacinth]

add a method to transfer items between your own characters, or significantly increase stash size and make it shared between all chars

[hearty fog]

PLEASE FIX THE CRASHES the amount of gear i have lost crashing mid game is just draining... one thing to die to your own cause but to die because you got terminated from the servers is another thing

[balmy latch]

Pls do not make stash space shared between characters as mentioned above. This game would be F tier if that change was made. Sincerely, people with friends as well as a second computer

[glad ingot]

really sucks when most of your friends have stopped playing the game and now you have to try and find someone new you can trust to actually trade stuff to your other toons, having a shared stash to trade with your alts is a needed QoL addition imo.

[balmy latch]

An additional tab where there is shared loot, sure, so you can transfer it. A completely merged stash would be a nightmare to organize and figuring out what to keep would also be a much bigger nightmare.

[glad ingot]

ahh i see what you are saying, yes this would make more sense, it does not all need to be shared, just one would be enough to transfer what you need to alts

[humble herald]

Daily quests and weekly with rewards such as healing pots and bandages, make it easier for new players to have a shot at pve, add a training room to be able to check out move etc for weapons and spell effects and casting ect.... as it stands this game is unnecessarily hard to get your foot in the door. If you play rouge do you even get a heal item? Or maybe make the first 1-5 levels as "starter lobbies" where any level player can have a less pvp focused run. Adding in a daily quest list would keep players coming back too and giving out free healing for the quests would definitely help new players survive longer for their first runs. Think about it before this hits steam, because when that happens this community will eat them alive. Stop balancing around the top 1% if players and balance the gear that makes their class over the top! Maybe add gear score for high roller and the better gear you wear the higher your lobbies will be and vise versa.

[balmy latch]

Dungeonbourne impressed me with the dailies system. I understand dark and darker is hard-core but a daily system for small rewards would go a long way.

[humble herald]

It can be hard-core no problem but the problem comes when they balance around the 1000 top best players and everyone else feels the repercussions from that. If you played warlock you'd understand

The game is about to hit steam right so a new wave of players having there first experience on the game, at least for me when I played everyone was new lol, this i gonna be some (Free weekend) type shit thats not gonna land with many people

[balmy latch]

Is it really about to hit steam tho

[humble herald]

Meh maybe they got the Korean rating and nothing really stopping them now, we will see tho

[balmy latch]

Feel like with the instability, shaky patch notes (dunno if you play NA servers or played last night but the game was simply unplayable for us all night) and potential rollbacks, it would only hurt them to put it on steam. The ping lock issue was actually insane.

I've never had a game tell me my ping is too high for my own servers, while simultaneously allowing me to queue up in Seoul and Tokyo with absurd lag. The general chat was funny as fuck tho people crying about losing kits to laggy fights

[humble herald]

Didn't play but the issue has been going on long before the last patch just randomly after 1 run I couldn't queue up again. But honestly I agree with you the servers need fixing before steam

[oblique lava]

we need a dark cloaked blade

[gleaming sentinel]

Would be pretty sweet to see an objective based/team based matching system maybe like CTF with larger parties of 8 v 8 or something with the same PvE/PvP experience

[narrow coral]

larger lobbys just for team pvp would be fun

[sand haven]

CAN WE BAN THE MULTIPLE CLASSES ON THE SAME TEAM PLEASE? ITS BORING TO FIGHT 3 RANGERS 3 BARBS 3 ROGUES ITS STUPID CHANGE THIS THANKS @keen onyx

[haughty harbor]

I suggest we actually fix the lag like WTF????

[dry acorn]

Bard has a parry and Rogue doesn't?

[strong grotto]

Have you tried parrying with that flute?

[strong grotto]

Arena is in the suggestions for eons now. You'd better go and upvote it, maybe they will add it then.

[outer niche]

It’s already been confirmed by im to be added

[pliant coyote]

fall damage needs to be a big thing this is a 10/10 hands down

[dry acorn]

I'm just surprised that Rogue doesn't have a parry mechanic but the Bard does, regardless of how easy it is to perform c:

[strong grotto]

Rogues were never about parry. They were about evasions, quick kills and stealth. So far rogue checks all the boxes. As for parrying - the game needs to have better fighting system in general. Parry, blocks, feints should be a thing regardless of classes or weapons. This is something IMace better steal from their own clone, dungeonborne. That and damage numbers on hit so we could make an educated decision in fights. Numbers or somehow to show the severity of wounds characters have. I can understand it is an early access, but not to improve combat nor adding visual cues in the game? That's straight lazy.

[silk meteor]

I would like the idea of showing the actuall numbers of damage/heal on spells with the equipped gear. For example if im wearing a total of 8 magical healing, when i use the spell memory skill in game and hover over lesser heal, it would show 15(8) or 23. Pretty much a QOL upgrade but it would really help out 😄

[dry acorn]

I've expanded on this before but personally I think combat needs a rework entirely, although I agree that yes all classes should have those options, it feels particularly jarring that Rogue doesn't. More visual cues would be fantastic

[peak reef]

I kind of feel that warlock is a bit too strong, pvp and pve wise, I do not really have experience with the class as I am not that much of a caster enjoyer, but I think that being able to heal off their own hydra making potions for them almost pointless to have and the panthomize ability combined with the fire walking spell is a bit too much...

[real trellis]

TM healing is pathetic now so the only way they're healing off their own hydra is with life drain and they have to hold still the whole time

And phant has a long cooldown so I think it's fine. They don't have any other way to escape a slayer running sprint or a barb with high ms and rage

[granite plinth]

you know you dont have to say this shit 😭

[frigid current]

Once you start collecting treasure and thinking about AP, the climb is incredibly easy - it's more of a grind than a challenge. The game would be a lot more enjoyable, and rank would mean a lot more, if competition was enforced in some way.

For example, rank being determined by something else entirely.

[merry glacier]

add an animation or delay to throwables or even better cap how many people can hold, dying to a base kit who has half an inventory of axes makes for an unenjoyable experience

[peak reef]

Add more light armour helmets not just the Leather Cap 🙏

[hallow flare]

Yes, and let barbarian use them too so not every sped barb is just a lizard lol

[frigid current]

I don't know, I find myself running around like a chicken with my head cut off on goblin caves and sometimes die just because I can't find a portal in time. The options are to either risk running to a static that may have been used, run around looking for an escape portal, or fight over the SINGLE portal in the center. I don't consider this a skill issue, but I could be wrong.

One alternative could be to eliminate the fog entirely, remove statics and random portals, and have a closing circle on the minimap that indicates when a group of portals becomes active. Thus, the only way to escape is at that moment that the portals activate, and with either a third or half as many portals as there are players, players would be forced to fight over the portals simultaneously. The portals could be spaced apart just enough so that defeating someone at one buys you enough time to open the portal and quickly loot the opponent. This way, AP increases could be based entirely on escaping/player kill counts, and treasure could be bought by the collector at a higher price range to encourage looting. Obviously, this sounds like an entirely different game at this point, but I think it would be a better approach in the way that rank might actually mean something.

[storm blade]

There should be a BEAR in ice cave IMO

[tiny mason]

Gobo caves needs more blues

[fossil vigil]

monk class with a perk that pervents fatal damage pacifist play through to demigod

[open snow]

you should be able to favorite items in the trade post

[proud sigil]

Man, the marketplace needs to get fixed. Buying gear in trade chat is the only reason I hate playing this game lol

[proud sigil]

Chapel de Fer is the best, also Viking helm too

[rich veldt]

I suggest you change how dependant wizard is on gear, and how boring it is yo wait for spells

[elfin sun]

fix: more ice

[obsidian oasis]

why is ice unbreakable now in ice caves?

[ornate vault]

I'm sorry for bitching about ice caverns, I really like it now

One tihng that needs to change is the wendigo HP - That thing is a turbo tank.

For solos only, if you could decrease it's Hp... that'd be ideal

[hollow vale]

if you hit it in the heart it falls fast

[graceful frost]

Need specific weapons like maces and club. For some reason a spear doesnt even work

[wise walrus]

barbarian round shield was a good addition. I think classes that have not had some love shown will really breath some freshness to other classes. Ranger rogue fighter.

[kind sage]

Leaving Adventure Point feedback here. The current system locks my Adventure Points into solo, duo, or trio group sizes. This is a horrible design for anyone whos normal trio or duo groups stop playing when they reach season reward level and then it forces the other players to go LFG with players they do not want to play with. It takes a lot of effort to find new players to play with regularly and become proficient as a group. I want to be able to use my trio AP points and finish my season as a solo player but I can't use my AP points. I might as well just stop playing the game because I'm not starting over this late in the season. I'm not interested in a debate and I really don't care about opinions on my feedback. Just providing feedback to Ironmace developers.

[graceful frost]

Ranger is a forgot about class.

[forest tundra]

that is such a weird suggestion, its a valid team comp and arguably its not very effective to have 3 of the same thing. situationally it might be good but often its just troll

[sand haven]

having the tripple shot and the 5 shot makes it impossible to push them, its not very competitive for a ranked mode to have comps like this doesnt matter if its troll. imagine playing overwatch and having 5 of the same characters or playing a moba with 5 of the same champs

[pallid vector]

3 rangers is just completely disgusting no team comp can beat that

[graceful frost]

[forest tundra]

ya you dont really want to push rangers tho. and this is more of a ranger problem. and you can easily beat that if ur comp isnt 3 melee obviously lmao

ive never once seen streamers run triple ranger, or conversly get stomped by triple ranger. a rogue can easily get the jump, fighter with a crossbow can contest, and it basically just stops the push from either side which is literally the entire point of ranger. Yeah they have an advantage if they have position on you, but if you have position on them they are equalyl fucked and cant push

[graceful frost]

Trip ranger is a timmy stomping comp or a trolling trap spamming comp. Not much more to it

[forest tundra]

^

lose one ranger and now ur 2 rangers who cant do shit in melee

i also cant think of another triple comp that should be limited, like triple wizard almost always dies even if they kill 1 or 2 people lol

[sand haven]

doesnt matter if its 3 rangers any classes stacked is annoying, 3 rogue 3 rangers 3 wizards 3 barbs

[forest tundra]

its fun to play, interesting to play against, not meta

[sand haven]

are you guys dense on purpose or are you actually this slow?

[forest tundra]

or some find it annoying to play against, regardless not bannable or restrictable. people are so unaccustomed to people disagreeing with them in this community. its literally your opinion, one that i disagree with

[sand haven]

they should restrict this, it isnt fun competitive or viable so why allow it

[sand haven]

FR FR

[forest tundra]

if you get shit on by triple ranger you bad at fighting ranger and it makes sense that u die. 1 ranger one cleric one fighter is stronger. fun for u isnt fun for everyone else. playing three of the same class feels more different then running the competitive or meta team comp every game

[sand haven]

ok you are just slow thanks

[shadow whale]

Suggestion if you're going to make it a rule that getting in to outa bounds areas is a ban able offense maybe stick to that rule even for streams with a few hundred viewers rather than playing favorites.

[forest tundra]

u basically just say the same thing everytime, assuming that the reason you die is some inherent flaw with the game rather than how you actually fight the team. Triple ranger is not actually good and often loses unless they are good players, but continue to mald lmao

[brisk cove]

All I want is proper ESDF support

cannot rebind F key.

[hardy vector]

its in the upper version im sure

[haughty harbor]

we need a boss in ice caves so i have a reason to q it

[smoky brook]

treasure hoard is available in there atm. heard you could get uniques, have yet to see it, its easy legendaries though and since they added more time to it it seems viable

and, theyre planning on Ice Wyverns, Yetis, and a few more monsters that have yet to be seen, bosses as well. give them time to perfect them

[haughty harbor]

we need a boss in ice caves so i have a reason to q it

[smoky brook]

theres plans. they already stated there will be one.

[haughty harbor]

we need a boss in ice caves so i have a reason to q it

[dire anvil]

we only got the crypts varient at the moment funny man its going to be 3 layed like ruins

[haughty harbor]

we need a boss in ice caves so i have a reason to q it

[dire anvil]

we get it next update or something

[haughty harbor]

we need a boss in ice caves so i have a reason to q it

[dire anvil]

its going to be a ice dragon and they need to finsh stuff up so stop begging for something theve already promised

[haughty harbor]

we need a boss in ice caves so i have a reason to q it

[dire anvil]

New weapon Idea, the cross (or any religous symbol) would take up the secondary weapon slot and be capable of casting spells would have a +Magic healing stat in place of the magical damage bonus other spell casting implements have. would only be used by cleric and maybe druid.
It would cost 15 movement speed to equip this item would have the same casting animation as the crystal ball. Thoughts? @faint needle @spice hinge For helping a bit with the idea

[outer mural]

suggestion: FIX MARKET PLACE

[pulsar glade]

remove boc

[swift creek]

In Native American culture windigos sometimes help people and sometimes hunt people. What if there was a 50% chance the windigo will drop something when you approach it and a 50% chance it will attack you. It would add more to the fear/jumpscare vibe you get from it.

[pulsar glade]

Warlock was all blue cobalt armored and was with staff. I was running 2 pieces of plate. I don't see a reason that should've happened. There was actually no counterplay. I hate warlocks anyways I heard his cast in the closed door and ran so FN fast to opposite direction closed my door behind me .Idk how he knew to follow me. but I sat at the door hoping to surprise. 1 falchion from me and I literally instadie. I wanted to grind some more tonight but F it.

Remove boc or mitigate scaling

Or make victory strike good. So I can run around with a BOC too. You get it

[vocal tiger]

What about a small chest in the limbo when going down in a later, like 4x3 cells or less(scale with a merchant affinity?) that you can use to send to stash when going deeper, kinda works like a limited secure container from tarkov

[void panther]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/527851/allow-wizards-to-use-all-spells
Please check it out and give suggestions

[limpid zodiac]

I Just found a leather bonnet with 0.1% physical damage reduction and 0.1% projectile damage reduction as two of its modifiers. Can we PLEASE get rid of these USELESS modifiers for something more realistic like 1%-5% atleast? Thank you.

[kind sage]

The solo duo trio locked AP points for the same rewards is just so stupid. I want to earn points playing in different group sizes to count for the same rewards. If my team quits late in the season I'm not starting over as a solo I'm just going to go play another game until next season.

[sharp cape]

Change the crafting system to be random bonuses but less materials

[wicked grove]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/532146/give-fighter-a-lunge-attack-disarm-attack-jump-attack-ect

[regal hornet]

I have this really nice Mercural Cloak, and everytime i wear it in the dungeon it ends up randomly folding over my head and blocking view. I was just in this intense 1v1 with a barbarian, and I was literally guessing where to shoot and throw fran axes ><. I'd much rather have the cloaks look a little worse and be functional than have them actually get in the way of vision randomly at terrible times. Love the game, Thanks for the special attention to Cloaks

[void panther]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/527851/allow-wizards-to-use-all-spells
Please check it out and give suggestions

[light hound]

The issue is when fighters start getting 85% pdr with those rolls

[kindred acorn]

So why are their no black guys in the game?

[vapid galleon]

Why are there no Koreans in the game??? The plot thickens

[kindred acorn]

FR though like why only white people... its not very inclusive.

[vapid galleon]

Perhaps in full release

[cunning yacht]

no Mexicans?

[kindred acorn]

it'll be paid skin

[vapid galleon]

More customization is something I look forward to. They should add Polish people & mounts. I want Winged Hussars

I don't think that a basic skin color should be paid for

[kindred acorn]

i paid for elf and im glowing white

[vapid galleon]

Maybe certains skins, like if they have tattoos or a cool hair style but not basic skins

[kindred acorn]

oh im sure they will add a tabaxi soon enough

[vapid galleon]

I want Catfolk. Kitsunes would be awesome too

I wish they had a page just for aesthetics/customization suggestions. Kinda like how they've looked into Druid fanart

[kindred acorn]

they dont have an art team really tho it would just be bought assests off the unreal market place for now

maybe if game gets big enough for them to add a real art team but i doubt it

[cunning yacht]

id be fine with just a basic face and hair swap

[kindred acorn]

nah you love the cleric hair you know it

[cunning yacht]

it is quite godly

[vapid galleon]

They have potential. There are a lot of casual gamers who play. It depends on how broad they can make the player base w/o compromising on the PvPvE aspects, though as a casual I'd prefer some PvE.
Hair & Face swaps would be cool

[kindred acorn]

yeah i talk about PvE mode all the time actually brought it up the other day

PvE mode would be fun and just make it to where people can make a class that is PvE specific like you cant bring them in to PvP lobbys so people can abuse OP loot they find in PvE lobbys no trading all self found or merchant bought things I think it would open the game up to a lot more people and it would also be good if you are having a bad night in PvP lobbys just to have a nice chill reset match of PvE

[small furnace]

I don't think this game has dynamic enough pve to warrant a pve mode that would last anything more than a week.

[wicked grove]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/532146/give-fighter-a-lunge-attack-disarm-attack-jump-attack-ect

[arctic bough]

What do yall think about the idea of removing MS armor modifers and speed through agility entirely and the only way to directly affect ms being through abilities/shrines? I feel like it would overall make the game feel more consistent and make it easier to balance out classes

[vapid galleon]

Indeed, either PvE needs to be separate from PvP pr PvE needs to be less rewarding in terms of loot, like normals

[kindred acorn]

I think it would be fun like obviously not all the time, but it could be good and fun to be able to setup custom matches with friends or something for fighting your friends or something along those lines

[vapid galleon]

I think Dungeonborn has something like it, but I prefer DaD's aesthetic so I haven't played it. I've seen a video on it recently

[kindred acorn]

i played dungeonborn for like 45 minutes and uninstalled its so bad compared to DaD

[arctic bough]

Does it play any differently really?

[kindred acorn]

they do have some good ideas but core gameplay feels awful super sluggish imo

[arctic bough]

ah so they just slowed it down?

[vapid galleon]

Enemies seem too easy. Very PvP focused w/ close spawns, from what I've seen

[arctic bough]

oh well that would make me want to play it

[kindred acorn]

not just slowed down it just feels really clunky. but thats just my feelings on it im not one to tell someone else how to feel.

[arctic bough]

yea ill have to go check it out sometime

[vapid galleon]

I think it's still in open access for a little bit? So it's possible to test it our

[arctic bough]

oh i didnt realize it wasnt out. Is it on steam?

[vapid galleon]

I just prefer DaD's look.
I think it's a alpha or beta or something on Steam

[kindred acorn]

its in a playtest on steam and its free playtest

[arctic bough]

huh i dont see it in search weird

[kindred acorn]

its there all one word

[arctic bough]

oh dungeonborn i was searching dragonborn lol

[vapid galleon]

One thing I'd like implemented for DaD is some sort of "horror" theme. Like, instead of being closed in by the dark/blizzard that a player or NPC would act as a sort of Jason/Freddy and hunt players

[arctic bough]

its kinda crazy that there able to copy the game so hard, i mean it literally just looks like dnd lol

[vapid galleon]

That's cool! It'd be cool to play a wraith or demon or especially a Wendigo.
And yeah, D&D has definitely become popular outside of board games/rpgs

[kindred acorn]

Dm me what you think about the game im curious i dont feel like im in the minority on my feelings about that one

[arctic bough]

yea im checking it out now

[tropic forge]

Make the Normals do a map rotation but keep highroller Able to choose !

[rich gazelle]

I'm sure this has been talked about but did the devs ever talk about adding a global chase mechanic like Chivalry where hovering mouse over your target makes you run faster to hit them? Game is cringe when all I do on cleric is rip off all my gear around a corner and buff to catch other naked players over 2 mins just getting the odd punch in.

[arctic bough]

Yea not a huge fan more focused on ability spams than i like

[narrow coral]

my faveourte part of this game early on was voip and funny interaction/roleplay id like to be able to enter less sweaty lobbys where people want kills and play useing a funny imression of a wizzard agiants someone calling me a blasphemous spell caster. but i cant think of an easy way to impliment this for the devs anyone got ideas

[naive gulch]

I would like to suggest an "lost item return" in-game for all gear brought into the dungeon. Just like Escape from tarkov have. Where all the items lost hasn't been picked up by the one kiiller or other scavaners from the dungeon. This would make people play more HR and also they would get more gear back, resulting in more people would play the dungeons like they are supposed to. yes/no?

[ember gate]

When putting out the notes you guys should put an 1~2 hours more than what you think you'd finish that way if you guys finish earlier than posted no one gets disappointed. Enjoying the game. Thanks

[strong grotto]

There are few problems in the core of this game.
1 - you should NEVER be allowed to remove anything from you if in combat in the first place.
2 - the whole game's battle system is based on 2 core principles: movespeed and literal stat check on hit.

So, what this game needs is not even the cahse system from chivalry, it needs an overhaul in general.
1 - We could have a charged attack that gives us some speed burst while performing it so every class would have a way to chase others.
2 - We should have some way to dodge, as example, something as simple as dirrection key + space key Vermintide style.
3 - We could have a blocks and parries with ALL the weapons, not only selected few, that is the most stupid thing in the current system IMO.
4 - We could have a damn sprint on a KEY and some form of stamina, instead of only giving it to fighters, basically cursing the whole class as always locking one skill slot for it.
5 - We could have some form of visual cue to understand what damage we did to someone, either with numbers on hit or by severity of wounds appearing on the models. Like, even if D&D, which thisa game has its roots, Dungeon Master will always tell you how injured the enemy LOOKS, in order to give some information to his players, wheter they should push or retreat. Additionally, this may also make Victory Strike on fighters actually viable.
6 - We could have the ability to HOLD the attack for some time to feint and mix the opponents or to prepare a big hit.
This list can go forever. And I can only hope IMace are going to look into it, because if not... There will be a day people will go to somewhere, where all of this presented. Like there are already good attempts to clone DaD, like Dungeonborne. So far DaD is still better, but it is only a matter of time.

[visual umbra]

100% agree that there's should be a way to tell how much damage you've done. Just displaying the number on hit would do the trick.

[leaden marten]

I hope they make the "Rotation Queue" the first option. It's pointless being the second option.

[rich gazelle]

I can agree as well with the damage showing but the other points I feel as if are more "careful what you wish for" type deal, adding any sort of feint raises the skill cieling drastically as far as sweats and new player experience; adding dodges like vermintide could in turn make slow; vertical swinging weapons feel terrible versus players. Charge attacks could easily destroy the power creep scale and make bulldozing dungeons as say barb "ez". Sprint could be interesting but overall could lead to rogue spam outrunning nightmare mobs for loot only runs trivializing alot of the game. It's always important to remember all aspects of the game with big core changes and we all don't want to hear the word clone comparing this game to others but nonetheless something must be done.

[spring spoke]

At this point just give everyone legendary gear, dont roolback

[strong grotto]

That's why I always typed "we ccould" and not "we should". All of those are subject of scrutiny. That being said, even if it is going to raise the ceiling and introduce sweaties in the game - it is still better to have some form of outplay possible in combat aside of "my move speed is greater so I auto-win every encounter", Feint and parry, or at least block, some from of charging to close the distance those are needed to be considered in one way or the other. As for "...bulldozing dungeons as say barb "ez"..." arguement, well. Isn't it already as such EXACTLY because barbs are so mindless? Current fighting in the game is stat checking. And barbarians are having the best weapons and best ability scores to check those from the others. And there is little to no one who can outrun those drugged monkeys.

[sudden trail]

Could you guys bring back the times maps and then make ice cavern the third map area for goblin caves?

[rich gazelle]

True, the barb bulldozing dungeons was strictly towards pve aoe grinding not so much players but yea that is a problem too currently I can say first hand. My ideas for the game though are more unique, more fantasy-esque. Say a spell that disarms a target for "x" seconds, maybe a rogue dummy corpse to throw off chasers around a corner only to break invis for a kill. Maybe a chance for blunt weapons to stun plate wearing targets like clanging a bell for a second? Perhaps a stacking defense buff for blocking subsequent attacks? every piece of plate perhaps having a chance for non- crossbow type weapons to ricochet off and deal no damage? I'm always more for the everything is broken class types then trying to achieve all class balance. So many unique mechanics draw away the mindset of only stacking damage or speed to win. But that's just my take.

[strong grotto]

Those ideas are more fitting Dungeonborne, I'd say. There is already much higher fantasy elements, than what DaD gives us. DaD is more down to earth fantasy. Thus, something like ability to actually fence with your weapon and not mindlessly mashing LMB is going to fit better in my opinion. And as for barbs... I think I know the core issue. The problem with barbarians isn't in fact that they are good during those 8 seconds of rage. The problem is that they are ALWAYS good, but during the rage - they are BEST. If the rage was buffed, but his core stats and perks were lowered... Maybe that would've fix him. At least then you'd have to survive the 8 seconds and have a chance to win, lol.

[rich gazelle]

I have played dungeon bourne as well but that games PvP feels more fast paced and intense. It reminds me of game like Arena of Kings if you played it, battlerite, or more WoW-type pvp big, flashy abilities clearly doing damage or closing gaps. Didn't see anything like non damage- trickery type abilities or passive bonuses for equipping certain armor types but maybe I missed it. My ideas come more from games like dota or FFXI, for instance in dota heroes that deal ludicrous damage and have insta blinks to a target are actually the worst because they provide no form of CC, or in FFXI they had weapon damage types like bash, pierce and slash which did more against some monsters and negative against others. Either way interested on an example of what "down to earth" fantasy games you've played?

[strong grotto]

Ever played Diablo 1 and 2? Maybe Warhammer Fantasy? The battle for Middle-Earth? Valkyria Chronicles? Thief? Arcanum. The list can go on. The core is that yes, there is magic in the world, most of the people will never be able to use or to see it, soldiers are still fighting medieval style combat even if the opponent is some kind daemon. Mages are few and far between. The doctors are still a thing and not replaced by healers, who can suddenly heal all injuries and replace your limbs and so on. Something like that.
Imagine being a regular bloke in the Harry Potter universe. Yeah, goblins are real. Spirits too. You will never see one though. And if you do - you are probably dead or in the army.

[unborn yacht]

this would open up the game to a huge amount of people who just want to co-op with their freinds while im not one of them i know theres a shit ton of people who would enjoy this, i think ironmace is too wrried about splitting the playerbase for that though

[rich gazelle]

This explains alot because I honestly have never played any of those games. I get what your saying though now (I think) but I don't think that's what the devs are shooting for. The problem with that kind of down to earth game for me is it's boring, feels so realistic that it sucks alot of fun out of the experience. My side is if I play a game I want to be a race or cast spells like gandalf, harry, Uther, or witch doctor. when games come out that are fantasy but only include humans and everything else is a "legend" or folk-tale it just feels stale experience wise like why did I pay for it. But clearly were 2 different type of gamers and hope to see the game prosper, nice chat with ya bud hope to see ya in the dungeon. 👍

[tough willow]

Stop limiting people’s speech on general chat and other chats . Making it where people can only speak once per 10 minutes so they can’t tell you how shit this game is more times than once is crazy.

[sweet hull]

I made some new suggestions if anyone wants to check them out id appreciate it

[strong grotto]

No one told you can't cast spells in those games or universes. It is that if you do - you are rarity. Take Warhammer as example. Core of the army in the Empire are footmen. Regular bloke with armor, shield and sword, musket maybe. While your enemies are usually orcs or beastmen savage hordes, sometimes Daemons of Chaos. Enjoy your stay in the army, It aint' going to last, ha-ha. Battlemage is not a unit of 15 dudes shooting fireballs at the opposition, it is ONE MAN who can, somewhat, control the Winds of Magic and to literally wipe whole regiments with one good spell. And there is always some witch hunters around to see you yourself don't turn daemon, because you failed the spell. In fact if you do - lets just hope your head explodes and not in the way to create a mile x mile crater. You may not like it, but I do. Exactly for the reason of being a regular bloke with a regular weapon, who can outsmart and defeat daemons and mages. You can be a damn batman breaking face to superman in this kind of fantasy! What is there not to like?

[strong grotto]

Link where?

[warm helm]

Please remove Map rotation. idk why you guys reverted it. I only play solo and refuse to play certain maps. I hate having to wait to play after every match

[nimble igloo]

They should make Goblin caves have down portals to the new frost map

[meager jasper]

This is getting silly ironmace. If you cant afford real testing at least open a test server like you promised your founders. It would do wonders for preventing these kinds of blunders.

While im giving feedback let me just say I much preferred being able to choose maps. Rotation wasnt particularly fun because maps are not equally viable for compositions and classes.

[sweet hull]

oh I just meant the suggestions page below this in disc and the newest posts

[strong grotto]

3 people in the office during holidays. Chill. The game is in the early access for reason. Be a bit more patient, maybe change the game for a week or so.

[sweet hull]

im "michael" and made a few ideas ive been saving up have more but idk if ill do it until later

[meager jasper]

They have more than that now. They have supposedly significantly expanded staff. But if that were the case it doesnt change anything i just said.

[sweet hull]

I guess this would be the link then newest https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com

[strong grotto]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/
This is where all suggestions go. Make it there and people will be able to vote on it. Maybe IMace will see it then. You can post here a link for people to go and vote.

[sweet hull]

I got a few for different subjects so I could copy link for all I guess but would be prob better to not spam here with it, theyre all back to back in newest posts atm

[strong grotto]

Check the anouncements: "Unfortunately, we are amidst a significant holiday period in Korea, and as a result, there are only three people in the office, making it difficult to conduct thorough testing."
I get the frustration, believe me I do. It will not help though. Have patience. And another game to play.

[meager jasper]

Im not frustrated. You're projecting. And it doesnt change that this was avoidable and predictable.

Dont just sit there and tell me my feedback is invalid and to have patience. Because this is very clearly a management and testing issue that didnt have to happen at all. If they didnt have staff this shouldnt have been released.

Tbh my only emotional response to this is "yeah kinda expected that"

[tough willow]

Don’t argue with the dev simpers. Smh, who are you? Don’t you know the game is brand spanking new at only 2 years old? Their a tiny dev team of 50 man you need to give them a break. They only rollback like twice a week. They could also run a testing server before changes to main but why would you even try to suggest something that could help the game…

[rich gazelle]

Reading this i'm trying to understand what you want to see in DaD based on your comments but let's see if I have a clue because it feels kind of flip-flop. minimal healing, big punishes, quick encounters. having to respect all classes due to their potential to turn you into dust or gibs in seconds.

[meager jasper]

I have just read the map system and wow its even worse than rotation. What is it they dont understand about us not wanting fixed maps for set groups? And fully random rotation now?

I cannot stress how disinterested in playing the game that makes me

[strong grotto]

There is a huge gap between me and dev simpers. If I was a simper - I would've not being here, suggesting changes to the game they've made, posting links to those changes to prevent this game from dying, or, at least, from turning to the hellscape of inbalance. This is the game I like. This is why I play it. I've never said I like the developers. In fact, in many ways I don't like them. I just have more options to entertain myself in gaming.

[nimble igloo]

It's perfectly normal to release software updates outside of normal hours with minimal staff it's almost a standard even

[meager jasper]

Its normal to release updates outside of normal hours to mitigate player impact on servers. Its not normal to release major updates without staff to fall back on for the inevitable bugs.

[nimble igloo]

You only need one guy to release software really, take a backup, release the code, rollback if errors. You don't need the entire dev department for that

[spice zephyr]

I think people are forgetting this is an early access(even if limited time skins are not exactly how I would see early access rewards)

[meager jasper]

Anyway all of that is a distraction. It seems like the map system is so poorly conceived now that I wont be playing for a while unless i misunderstand the implementation.

[nimble igloo]

It's funny seeing a guy called Zen spitting his dummy out and throwing all the toys out of the pram

[meager jasper]

Again. I have very little emotional investment. There is no need for baseless ad hominem. Im providing feedback on a patch.

[strong grotto]

I just want the game, where every class has a chance to play solo and the outcome is decided by skill, and not by simple "press the button to kill". I want to control the way characters move and act, not being controlled by weapon, that has the predetermined movements, which instantly makes 80% of weapons useless, because of poor moveset. I want the game, where you can't just stat check whoever, with no one-shot crap, where you at least have a chance to win, even from the ambush. I just want to have fun playing the classes I want, instead of barbarian, because developers are so dumb they can't understand, how bad it is against one.

[nimble igloo]

Barbarian sucks now though

[meager jasper]

I see. You're a troll.

[spice zephyr]

wouldn't say suck per see, unless you are running reckless strike

[spice zephyr]

that is very unrealistic, you can get close, but perfect balance is straight up not possible

[strong grotto]

Sure. Got nerfed in his STR, but raised other stats, while also buffed the hell out of his other skills, perks, made potion chugger overpowered, so he can now not only run faster than everyone, not only still be able to do amazing damage with his weapons, now he even has a good defensible option of shield... Yeah. Sucks indeed.

[rich gazelle]

yea bro i'm sorry but I have to agree with this guy, what your asking for is a pipedream and more like games where the devs give every class healing, disable and escape. sometimes you get got you just gotta eat it otherwise no one would play a class like rogue. One shots shouldnt be possible though I can say that much.

[spice zephyr]

that's not even the most difficult part, to me what really makes it difficult is stuff seemingly unrelated to the classes itself, for example maps, a closed off map will aid a burst type melee class much more than a ranger. A really open map will make ranged damage prevailent and as such, good luck running classes like cleric, then you get mob drops, and I don't think anyone wants to argue that it's much easier to get a weapon for fighter, barbarian, ranger etc. than for example cleric because mob drops are themed.

[spice zephyr]

as for this, rogue is an extreme of class design I would say

[rich gazelle]

Very true, I am a true to the end cleric main, my original post was frustrated ripping off all my gear for kills to catch naked wizards and rangers in normals farming kills. Successfully but still cringe worthy. Rogue I always feel is a necessary evil. if you dedicate every last resource to 1 shot you should be able to but at a very vulnerable afterward price like once per match cooldown like second wind.

[strong grotto]

You go for extreme. It is not that evey class should have healing, disable and escapes to be balanced. It is just that I don't become suddenly uselss, when facing one class over the other. Besides, even if every class had those - it is till possible to be good so long as to classes themselves are different and played in unique way. The core idea of gaming is to having fun. Not having to struggle uphill, simply because you chose the "off meta" class for reason of loving his fantasy. It just requires an actual work and dedication from the devs.

[vestal cloud]

Ironmace what actual f dude you are gonna make a player who loves this game but by forcing me to play gc you guys make the absolute worst decisions at this point idk what to say other than you are destroying your own game

[spice zephyr]

I believe that rogue's design is simply very frustrating to play against. The archetypes he displays are simply very one sided and cannot be easily interacted with

-Nuke rogue is an unfun design, because there is like 2 classes who have anti invisibility abilities, one of which is simply not viable in pvp, and if the rogue deems a target too tanky to be killed sufficiently fast, there is not much limiting them from just running away

-Mobility rogue with ranged throwables or hand crossbow is aimed at the opposing player never catching up to the rogue and does a pretty good job at that

I do believe rogue is an essential class to the setting and he cannot be removed, but man are the rogue players pesky

[unborn yacht]

im a cleric and i love rogues, they are my best freind ;p

[spice zephyr]

Please do expand on that, aside from high pdr I don't see how exactly cleric would counter a rogue on high end

[rich gazelle]

Right, rogue kiting should not be, rogue rushing your face should not be unless he already surprise attacked you from behind. If you want scroll up and you can see my original ideas for more unique mechanics like a rogue dummy corpse he drops running around a corner. A gullible player would assume their DoT or bleed kills them; but if none was applied he could cleverly trigger a spike trap; drop the dummy and make it look like he died only to have his pursuer try to loot the dummy to find nothing as he hides or stabs him in the back where the bulk of his perk damage should come from outsmarting opponents.

[unborn yacht]

i play normies and clerics counter rogue unles they play smart with anged hand crossbow

[spice zephyr]

ok normals I agree

in normals clerics kit counters rogue pretty rough due to perseverance

[pastel arrow]

i like boys

[unborn yacht]

usually if they get close its a couple bonks and they ded, same with rangers, with ranger i usually can out defense them and corner them and punch them until they pull the weapon out then i pull out mine too then they fucked

im talkin normies still btw

clerics have it good in normies but then its the opposite in high roller

[spice zephyr]

yeah I get that, kinda stuck on pathfinder currently in high roller on cleric(although I wouldn't say it's horrible)

[unborn yacht]

same i stopped playing hr altogether at pathrinder

[rich gazelle]

this was my original point of more class spells and mechanics, tired of chasing with fists to kill rangers and wizards and ripping off all my gear for more speed. 💤

[unborn yacht]

yup :P, it works well but dont rip off all ur gear just enough to catch them, it helps to bring alternative move speedy gear

[spice zephyr]

do you bother with the frock?

[unborn yacht]

i usually dont unless i come in with starter gear, then i take off the pants

[hallow flare]

Big L patch, I wasn’t even whining about map rotation before, but when it was gone the game was way more enjoyable. Didn’t have to rush in the lobby all the time. Empty lobbies happened sometimes, but I’d rather queue times be increased to combat the issue. The player base is small because we all know a wipe is coming, I’d rather the queue time take 8-10 minutes then have this or old map rotation back

[unborn yacht]

i try to replace my frock with best possble whites, i try to wear plate boot and rivited gloves, i use maximum roll or near maximum roll whites usually

[rich gazelle]

what do you wear in normals? i usually go templar, morningstar with buckler or round, and lightfoot with chapel but that mve speed is like 268 with weapon out, far below what ranger and wizards move at with only boots and gloves with weapon away

[unborn yacht]

replace lightfoot with plate boots for strengt id say and chapel with decent houndskull or go lizardman

for hands its eitherheavy gautles or rivted, BUT if your using ranged battle magic i suggest you keep wearing what u currently do

[rich gazelle]

im sorry but what game are you playing? that brings you to like 250's mve speed they are moving at 280+ as a cleric they will kite you all day!

[unborn yacht]

as im the kind of guy who likes to buff himself and do melee

[tough willow]

The player base has been decreasing massively since early December, don’t blame the wipe.

[unborn yacht]

thats why you gatta spam protection and catch up to them in fists and try to ge them cornered, once you think yu got them corner pull out ur weapon or keep hitting them with fists until they pull out their melee

[rich gazelle]

so what you run no chest or legs?

[unborn yacht]

i run 3 things for legs its loose trousers plate leggings or dark leather leggings

depends on hat i can get my ahdns on from the merchants, tbh idk which one i like the most , tho plate pants have the clear tradoff of loosing lots of move speed so when i bring plate pants ill have to take them off if somebody too fast

[rich gazelle]

and your weapon of choice? besides fists out like when you corner them?

[unborn yacht]

maximum roll morning star(35) or war hammer(31) usually but flanged max isn't much diff from morning star aside the attack pattern

i stock up on 31 damage war hammers and other maximum roll white gear when i can

[rich gazelle]

i gotta see this happen cause if i even touch plate anything im getting 180 zapped or survival bowed and immediately kited removing weapon on ruins, the big bridge room especially

[hallow flare]

Don’t care, I’m still right regardless. It doesn’t matter why because that had nothing to do with my point, so maybe not try to start arguments for no reason? 🤷

[unborn yacht]

ruins is what i play on usually

if somebody uses a longsword on ya and tried to counter just go for their legs from the side hit them toes ;p

[tough willow]

Ur a child, I was agreeing to your point while correcting your minor error

[rich gazelle]

you enjoy that door slam to them runing with your abhorid interact speed as they shed all agro onto you then reopening for a favorable win?

[tough willow]

Because it should be very known why this game is dying. It’s not because of the wipe.

[unborn yacht]

i want solo que normies back for all maps at all times, this restricting map selection is awful

i want solo que normies back for all maps at all times, this restricting map selection is awful and i know im correct, im gonna stop playing until i hear that they bring backlast patches map selection

[rich gazelle]

i've had alot of luck with quarterstaff though, still can block, 100% weap damage at all distances and only 30 mve slow pen

[restive otter]

i agree too, that i want to play solo on every map to learn it. Man its so terrible to be forced to play 1v3 when you are new to the game, when you are trying to quest or learn. What are you thinking with this backroll.... realy dissapointing!

[hallow flare]

For someone who claims to agree with me, you seem to be doing a lot of seething right now, maybe chill and not focus it towards someone who isn’t arguing with you, and said as much. Don’t get so bent out of shape over state of the game right now, ebbs and flows. I’m kinda pissed another rollback is going to knock me back down to pathfinder from voyager, but whatev

[tough willow]

What are you even on about my guy lol, you must be one of those people that don’t have reading comprehension skills.

[unborn yacht]

i want solo que normies back for all maps at all times, this restricting map selection is awful

[strong grotto]

I wish bards were able to use those bonksticks... Saddly, the only parry I have is with flute (which is Hell) and the only bonk I can provide is with lute (which is hillarious, but too short).

[spice zephyr]

I don't mind the rotation, but that might be just my brain being broken from playing noita

[rich gazelle]

cant bard use a buckler?

[strong grotto]

Funny you mention it... Is it good? It is in my wishlist for ages now.

[deep birch]

remove this shit rotation map pls

[spice zephyr]

It's horrible, I hate it. 10/10 would buy again

[normal quarry]

Go back to October 2023 please

[strong grotto]

Yes, he can. But I want to use nokstick for maximum bonkage.

[glacial sphinx]

I like the new staff mastery perk for Wizards, though I suggest tweaking it slightly. Reduce the added magic damage to 3, but allow it to apply to all two handed melee options (crystal sword/staff/magic staff) and restore some spells on killing NPCS. Something like one tick of sitting down. This would make it a great perk in general for soloing.

[spice zephyr]

no

[rich gazelle]

hey just remember you can use S tier rapier while i get ogre slow bonks which i whiff half the time to A+D strafers

[spice zephyr]

it's clearly a perk for naked wizards to deal better with pve, your changes would straight up make it op in my mind

[strong grotto]

Try Vagante. I hate it too. 10/10 bought twice for me and friend.

[spice zephyr]

at first look it really resembles magicite/roguelands with darker setting, definetly interesting but I would probably buy dead cells before it

[strong grotto]

Rapier is good, yes, though I want to kill things with instruments if possible and I don't like swords in general. Am more of a dwarf guy. Axes, hammers and stuff. Yes I play barbarian, but not as much for I feel dirty... Like my success rate of extractions and in PvP doubles or triples of what every other class I've played... Not to mention it is so mindless to play one.

[rich gazelle]

gotta be a meta slave until we can properly spec how we want with the "training" tab

[unborn yacht]

i want solo que normies back for all maps at all times, this restricting map selection is awful

[rich gazelle]

me too, love dwarves in every game, want nothing more than dwarf pally with war maul but god.. havent seen a single person run that weap in ages

[strong grotto]

The closest we have is cleric right now. Closest, but still no cake. I've enjoyed the maul on him also, for a while. But then I got killed few times in a row, because weapon can't help but stuck on everything around you (goblin caves are not so spacious to acomodate its girth and length), so I went back to morning star and staves.

[rich gazelle]

the problem is more that a weapon can never be "good" for cleric so long as barb and fighter can abuse it. they need their own exclusive weapon

[strong grotto]

Clerics need flails.

[rich gazelle]

yea that would be dope, or just give use knuckles and let me mike tyson my way to victory with like a -5 mve speed penalty lol

[strong grotto]

Those would be too OP if used with smite xD

[rich gazelle]

the rangers and wizards would say but the barbs and falcion fighters would see free walking loot pile

[hallow flare]

Does blunt weapon mastery actually apply to fists?

[rich gazelle]

I think we can all agree that PS3 make the best gaymes (we fly high, no lie, you know ddiiiiiissssss)

[wheat mirage]

So, Staff Mastery
Does that effect the Magic Staff (aka. Weapon Type: "Magic Stuff")
or
The Quarterstaff (aka. Weapon Type: "Mace")

I feel they need to re-jig types at this point

[haughty torrent]

if stuff has already been sold on the market place and is waiting on the owner to take the money, remove it from marketplace for others to see so that people arnt trying to buy already sold stuff forever...

[wheat mirage]

So miffed that they listened to the people complaining about rotation. They knew it wasn't sustainable, but did it anyway

[woven junco]

@keen onyx 1 hour wait times are no good cant do any trio goblin or duo goblin if your trying to shut the game down Great way to do it is by what your doing now

legit waiting 9 hours :{

[glacial sphinx]

read the announcement its 3 people overworked atm, just chill

[dull sinew]

🥛 add milk to the game🥛 https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/482571/add-milk-to-the-game

[fiery saddle]

Why are they implementing updates with only 3 overworked people?

[jovial tinsel]

:^)

[upper hearth]

Least abusive Asian gaming company.

[fiery saddle]

lol

[pale hearth]

how much for gold coin chest ?

[storm blade]

right now 11 gold

[proud abyss]

@sdf Is there plans of releasing a marketplace api in the future? Was thinking you could run a regression for every item. Response variable is price and explanatory variables are things like quality of item and all the different types of attributes.

[woven junco]

@keen onyx Go hire Mithril Studios On a real note bro this patch is ass and i dont think you guys will ever improve and if you do it will be tofu on tofu with no soy sauce I pray that Mithril find its holy light and helps you on programming and coding im sure they have a team dedicated to this im very dissapointed in IRON MACE works atm and hope that will change ive only been this dissapointed when my dog passed lets hope this never happens again I pray for Iron Mace to get thier shit together

[meager jasper]

There was nothing wrong with removing rotation, there were plenty lobbies, what are you people talking about?

And by the way, using the data immediately after releasing a map for how removing rotations changes the spread of players is deeply silly. I played almost the entirety of the patch since ice caves, on ice caves, where possible.

Not because I don't like goblin caves. But because I wanted to learn ice caves. And it's new.

But I will almost never play on ruins, purposefully. And no amount of forced rotation will change that, because I simply don't have a ranger or wizard, and I don't want to risk my slow plate wearing ass on it. It would be one thing if we had shared quests or some other way of easily going to a different class, but we don't. So I don't.

I defended rotations personally for a while, but they're worthless, I take it back. They need to go back to pure selection. It worked fine.

[jovial tinsel]

yeah im sick of ruins, I was queing up ice map non stop, I want to play the new content, wtf are they doing

[hallow flare]

Fax, go back to selection but make it so game doesn’t start until lobby is full, I’d rather wait 10 minutes per game then wait an hour to only play one

[meager jasper]

Traditionally whenever I see ruins rotate in it's my time to stop and sell anything I found on the trade chats, but now with market I won't have to waste my time doing that, so I guess I just won't be playing during those times. It's ridiculous they're encouraging me to not play this way.

Ruins is literally the only map I didn't ever like even when it was seperate, but they've forced quests and gold into it, put it above the good map (which is now a boring filler layer), all to try and force people into their confined "vision" which straight up doesn't work.

[wheat mirage]

Me and my friend were playing last night and we met one other group of people across roughly 15 games. We're not even high rank. Can't imagine how it is up there. Then again we mainly played GC and Ice Caverns.

In the end, they had 6 queues with rotation. Then on free maps they had 18 queues, and now we're at 8 queues, which is still a bit worse

[jovial tinsel]

Would be interesting to be able to Que for crypts and join an in progress match to fill players back in or something. When you are waiting to go to hell, maybe you go to another pre lobby and gather players

[wheat mirage]

Free selection is great for AP farming, but didn't seem great for PvP content since it's 3x the queues

[meager jasper]

Ice caves has plenty of players, but the map encourages you to hunker down on an exit.

[jovial tinsel]

This is a problem that is exclusively based on early access imo, if we had steam players there would be no need to do this forced rotation and more so, we shouldn’t set the game up like it’s going to stay in this state

[hallow flare]

It’s because with the extra queues, match still only starts in 2 min. They just need to make the Queue timer ascending, and only start when full

[meager jasper]

Never seen an empty game, once. Took a barb from zero to pathfinder during the ice caves.

[wheat mirage]

Oh, ice maps is just a separate beast entirely, I agree. They have enough loot and monsters for an entire dungeon in one or two rooms

[storm blade]

i would happily wait longer to plaay the map i want to paly

[meager jasper]

When i saw they were doing a hybrid I was like "Oh cool, so they'll have selection but also have quick-queue with maybe an xp bonus or somethin?"

[wheat mirage]

We didn't have empty games. We're only pathfinder duo, but our lobbies were typically 6-8 people total

[solemn spade]

Remove Duos from the game.

Solo/trio only will fix a lot of player pool problems.

[meager jasper]

That would have actually worked if they want a more even distribution. Have both a rotational queue and a select, and you get some sort of relatively minor bonus

[wheat mirage]

I mean, I play with a single, friend. I'd just not play without duo instead of finding some weirdo rando as a third

[meager jasper]

No. I play duo. Get lost.

[jovial tinsel]

Playing random Que should give you bonus luck or something. Plus there’s no matchmaking for some reason despite gathering all being dead

[solemn spade]

Also make a game mode where you get more exp/ap boost if you play a random map.

[meager jasper]

A luck bonus for random queuing would be great. Even if it's just a 50 luck boost or something, like a small luck potion.
But no. All stick. All force.

[solemn spade]

game cant support full lobbies for all 3 types. its too much... even overwatch only has Role Queue and Flex Queue, and each game requires 10 people (less than DnD)

[wheat mirage]

Tbh someone made the suggestion of a 5 minute rotation a while ago. And to me, that seems like the obvious winner. 6 queues, short wait if you don't like the map

[meager jasper]

According to what data? Complete supposition. You're probably a troll tbh.

Again, never had any issue seeing full lobbies

[solemn spade]

Yeah sure, I'm a troll. Nice go-to, cat pfp.

[meager jasper]

So you don't have any data then, just anecdotes?

[solemn spade]

I played trios ice cavern all day yesterday. Only saw MAX one other team out of 10+ games.

[meager jasper]

So you played on the quietest game mode on a map that's not designed at all for trios? Lol. And you wonder why?

[solemn spade]

"never had any issue seeing full lobbies".

[meager jasper]

On duos and solos, to clarify. Forcing duos to find a third isn't a real solution. I'm not going to do that, if I'm forced out of the game, I'm stopping, end of story. And I very much doubt most people will find a third.

[solemn spade]

9 queues is too much no matter how you look at it. something has to give.

[wheat mirage]

I mean, all maps are designed for trios at this point. Was sort of the reason GC got expanded

[wheat mirage]

Where is 9 coming from?

It was 6,
Then 18
now 8

[meager jasper]

I do realize that ice caves have the three multi-exits, but otherwise, there is no reliable way to easily get a trio out of there. Duos can split up and secure two, and it's doable. But why would a trio go into ice caves right now? Ruins does have ultimately better rewards for trios, including going down.

[solemn spade]

Game should probably only have ~4.

Maps going back to solo/duo/trio only with a 4th game mode that can do any map on trios with a luck/ap/exp boost might work. only 4 queues.

[solemn spade]

shit youre right it's 18. that's obviously much worse lol. i forgot about normals.

[meager jasper]

lol what? Nobody wants them to prioritize trios over everything else. The vast majority of people play this game solo.

Normals are, functionally a different game with very little overlap with the rest of the game other than quests. It's nonsensical to even consider them competing for the same playerbase.

[wheat mirage]

Fair. Exits are meant to be a point of contention in the map. But they added the static solo exits which kinda ruin that

[solemn spade]

We played ice caves all day because there was a lower chance of getting gold teams and it only took ~15 minutes to get 600+ AP instead of doing a 40 minutes ruins run to get to Hell for ~1000 AP. With ruins having a much higher chance of dying.

[meager jasper]

Yeah, it was a better map to run on duos too. Ruins really sucks. It's no wonder that people would much rather be anywhere else.

[wheat mirage]

I find this statement odd. My friend and I play a mix of normals and HR depending on gear at the time, whether are indeed questing, or practicing a boss, or are aiming for PvP or AP (again, based on gear). I'd say we're pretty 50/50 on both modes

[solemn spade]

conversely normals makes up less than 5% of my games for sure. probably less than 5%. because even if im base kit i'd go HR.

[wheat mirage]

We can go to HR in base kit and do for Ice Caves (because you don't meet other people), but if the goal is PvP we'll decide which we go to based on gear

[meager jasper]

Yes but they are not for the same purpose and realistically if you're using green gear you got in normals, in HR you are ... the extreme low end of geared for HR. It's easier to gear yourself in one game in HR than it is to spend time in normals trying to get gear from it. It's a bit of a moot point and not really important though.

And yes I don't play normals almost at all. It was only ever used early on for me before I realized that it would be more profitable to run naked into HR in all circumstances. Used it to jump brazenly into wisps on normals, that was it.

[wicked grove]

sword mastery is too weak

[wheat mirage]

For my friend and I we usually use it to fight people in similar gear.
At the same time, I would not mind if normals did become a level 1-19 mode that didn't care if the lobby was empty

[meager jasper]

Also I just actually logged in after updating. I didn't realize they had made the roatation this bad It's one random pairing?

[wheat mirage]

yeah, it's one pairing, so you desired pair pops up every ~6 hours

[solemn spade]

Because it seems like 3/4ths of my lobbies have at least one gold team which will go out of their way to clear the whole lobby and ignore loot on the surface map, the gear for pvp is less relevant.

If I bring BiS purple gear to ruins, I have a high chance of running into a full (or mostly) gold team that is likely 1) as good or better at the game than me; 2) has far better base stats. If they are in my lobby, I have to 1) camp storm for extract; 2) hope to run into them as a 3rd party; 3) fight them and likely die unless they blunder.

So the gear is almost irrelevant. And normals doesn't give AP so it's a waste of time to me. Also HR loot is so good that you can usually get a few decent pieces before any pvp.

[meager jasper]

@keen onyx @dawn grotto
revert this change, oh my god, please.
This is completely unplayable. I'm happy you decided only my duos should have frost mountain, but that's completely ridiculous. We wanted at least full rotation or full selection. This is awful

[wicked grove]

facts make more protals in goblin caves too

[wheat mirage]

I still think they need to put rotation back (the working system) and just reduce the queue time. Could even be a 3 minute rotation. Just enough time for lobbies to pick up

[meager jasper]

What the hell is this. I realize I just said I hated ruins but the game's quest system is tied to it. So now I can't go there? The fuck are you smoking?

[wheat mirage]

You forget you can still go. Just queue as a trio for quests (while being solo)

[meager jasper]

Yeah I really want to die repeatedly to three-men again like in the old days. No.

[wheat mirage]

I mean, I think a lot of people will be solo in there anyway. Plus hey, normals!

[wicked grove]

Freely picking a map was so nice

[meager jasper]

That's not okay. This is completely indefensible.

Freely picking felt great, but even if the lobbies were too much they should have went back to full rotation.

[wheat mirage]

In fairness, you need to remember that this is literally 3 people who decided to throw out a patch and are likely panic patching without any direction

[solemn spade]

I can't think of any build that is not viable in trios. But there are spells and builds that are not (or are less) viable in solos. Game should be balanced around tiro play and the RNG rotation should be for trios. This makes 4 HR queues and 4 Norm queues. If this game has any competitive sports scene at all, it's trios. Solos is for grinders and isn't as fair as trios, so it's less interesting competitively.

[wheat mirage]

Or at least no one to tell them to revert the change til after the holiday

[meager jasper]

Well I hope they're watching then, because holy hell will I not be continuing for very much longer if this doesn't get resolved by the turn of the season when my quests reset

[wicked grove]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/532146/give-fighter-a-lunge-attack-disarm-attack-jump-attack-ect

[wheat mirage]

Then they'd need to implement a lack of friendly fire and match making. Because that'd be the only way I'd let the kind of people I see on discord into the same team as me 😛

[solemn spade]

I do nothing but play with randoms and I've only been team killed twice on accident

[wheat mirage]

I'm sorry. I know I can't know your personal experience. But I just cannot fathom this at all

[wicked grove]

yea a optional matchmaking would be good, no friendly fire would turn the game into a mess though

[meager jasper]

You... are a unicorn

[wheat mirage]

I have about a 10% chance of even matching with someone of the same language, and then no one uses voice anyway, and the average player is like... 12? And also there is no reason NOT to kill a team mate

[meager jasper]

My own real buddy's killed me more times on accident lol.

[wheat mirage]

I mean, what? my name turns red?

[solemn spade]

I'm in LFG chat on this discord every time I play, and i've played 100 to 150 games this wipe probably? Not sure. Nobody has ever intentionally killed me. One time a wizard casted explosion on a nightmare skeleton that ran into me and killed me; another time I just got hit in the head by my team mate during pvp. I can't remember any other time my team killed me.

If you're a front liner you have probably been team killed more. I'm cleric only.

[meager jasper]

Wizard just be like that, yeah. Stray zweihanders and hammers too.

[wheat mirage]

Back to the original topic though. I find solo and duo dungeons fun anyway. So why force the trifecta?
We had good rotations.
The reason they got changed was because people wanted ruins RIGHT NOW

[solemn spade]

they wanted ruins but they also would not play if the other maps were on rotation

[wheat mirage]

Then the queues were spread 3-fold and they saw how f'd up it was over literally 2 days apparently

[wheat mirage]

So, we have a solution
Rotation for solos and duos
Permanent "competitive" ruins for trios, which I don't need to care about

[solemn spade]

That would probably work tbh

[wheat mirage]

Still 6 queues, same as old rotation too

And if trios wanted another map, they just drop a member for a while
And any time someone whines about not being able to do ruins, people can tell them to get a trio (or wait 15 minutes). Done.

[solemn spade]

This would hinder the gold flooding the market too

all the gold comes from solo/duo ruins runs. base kit rogues and rangers.

though honestly gold should be taken out of ruins and put into lower floors.

[wheat mirage]

tbh ruins would still be doable, just on rotation
That was partially fixed by not having ruins be 2/3's of the rotation

[wheat mirage]

I can agree with that at least. The Delves should be split as follows:
Ruins (Prep-type loot, mainly about pvp and thinning crowds. NO BLUE EXITS)
Crypts (General valuable loot and has both exit types)
Inferno (Bosses and Legendary loot chance)

[meager jasper]

I hate the idea that a pvp heavy map gatekeeps crypts and inferno.

Especially such a hugely unbalanced one that favours very specific classes and compositions that no other map does.

[wheat mirage]

I mean, that's what it already is really.
The rest is indeed just balancing it to be a well compositioned PvP map

But they should definitely remove blue exits from it. Why have a map with equivalent loot as the first stage and just allow people to pop out
They could even keep Ruins having good loot if it had no blue exits. Because at least then you need to get through 2 dungeons for it

[meager jasper]

While I'm at it, the marketplace shows listings that are already purchased. That's just very basic bad design.

[wheat mirage]

Yeah. I don't think marketplace is here for anything but debugging purposes right now, so I'm not using it as a real thing. Plus, you know, rollback, so even less point

[meager jasper]

Sure, but I'll reiterate it for the sake of them not keeping it when it patches, or it'll essentially be unusuable. No one is going to be able to use a marketplace in which 90% of the listings are not real

[wheat mirage]

Fair

[meager jasper]

So far the only thing I've glanced at and like are the new perks, which are interesting. However I must wonder: why are they so opposed to making the crystal sword effective at any level?

They just gave the magic staff a perk which grants it magic damage +5, which given that it has a scaling magic damage bonus that's really good, and a decent physical damage, immediately makes it vastly more effective than a crystal sword lol.

Why do you hate the coolest weapon in the game, Ironmace? Please. Give it some love.

If they had done the inverse and given the c-sword a perk that gives it +5 magic damage(non-melee, like another magic item, which of course stacks with it anyway but makes it a viable igniter), that would've been way more interesting imo. I don't really think the staff needs a perk to have a niche, maybe just a slight balance tweak.

Also rest in peace all players who want to play wizard right now. Solo goblin caves only isn't something wizards do well in, ever. There's a reason I used to, even when ruins was multi-player and not on rotation, solo there anyway.

[shadow whale]

Suggestion fire the people who thought it was a good idea to push out an update with only 3 people in the office on saturday when everyone is playing cause that was not a big brain idea.

[meager jasper]

Unironically a deeply stupid idea, yes. But obviously no, don't fire them. Just learn not to push out major updates like this.

[wheat mirage]

In fairness I don't really like any perk that forces you down a weapon path and says "This makes this weapon objectively better for your class"
Plus there's already videos of the perk making white-gear wizards hit for ~120 damage with staff + ignite

[shadow whale]

Nah they need to be fired this isn't the first time they've done stupid stuff it just keeps happening at this point.

[meager jasper]

You realize that the owners of the company are probably the ones manning the ship, right now, right? So no, that's not going to happen.

[meager jasper]

I agree. I want playstyles to be enabled by perks, not flat improvements. Turning the staff into a really good ignite weapon isn't really top priority, when the major ignite weapons aren't... super viable. rondel/crystal sword have that niche already. They're just worse than the melee options of other classes.

[wheat mirage]

I would make the ammendment though. If each weapon type of a class had a related perk, I'd be less bothered by it. It's when you must be objectively worse if you pick the weapon you don't have a perk for.
I mean warrior has sword mastery now... so, if they use the perk that allows them to take any weapon, at a -5% damage penalty, and it's not a sword. It's like.. why?

[meager jasper]

Yeah, suddenly fighters have less reason to use a flanged mace for instance. It would be better if these kinds of perks were full packs for the weapon types.

[wicked grove]

sword mastery honestly is trash atm, needs buff

[wheat mirage]

I dunno, it sounds better than, as stated above, the -5% damage Flanged Mace "perk"

They also need to fix their weapon types to begin with

[wicked grove]

true

[wheat mirage]

Staff mastery
Wizard STAFF is a "Magical Stuff" Weapon
QuarterSTAFF is a "Mace" Weapon

Are they both staffs? It's so loose?

They should literally just have two types each

Magical and Staff for Wizard Staff
Mace and Staff for Quarterstaff

[storm blade]

i love you guys but why do an update when no one is in the office??

[haughty harbor]

this tbh

[storm blade]

like almost every patch you guys need to do a hotfix and im fine with that but why do one when no one is around knowing the track record of the patches

[haughty harbor]

marketplace should be a next season thing at this point anyway. nobody with a brain cares about having a market 1 week before wipe. (unlesss ur cooked) i hope with this data we have the market day 1 of net fresh

[storm blade]

i work 50 hours a week plus and this is my day off so sad

[meager jasper]

What's... going on in these ice caves all of a sudden? Did they remove all SBMM? Because I'm on an essentially fresh character and so is my buddy and that was two full-gold, full-legendary guys.

[haughty torrent]

BRING BACK OLD ROTATION WAYS (rotations for all 3 player groups) [solo duo trio]

[rustic seal]

As a solo player, Why would I want to play dark and darker anymore? I'm forced to either play Goblin Caves or play 1v2 or 1v3 on the other maps. Guess time to take a break from the game

[granite plinth]

Thats how it always used to be lol

[rustic seal]

Changing of partys and maps gave me hope.

[granite plinth]

Goblin caves and ice caves were dead

[rustic seal]

I guess the game is dying? they can't afford to do that. :L sad to see such a good game Loosing more players than gaining

[granite plinth]

Nah the problem is ruins are finished unlike the other maps that arent polished
If they have a choice people will play ruins

[rustic seal]

Ice map felt fine, just less pvp, had a lot of rubber banding

[crude crag]

ugly, collision problems, too much mob density and performance issues.

[solar falcon]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/533179/goblin-caves-changes

bring back old GC and make a second floor with the newer modules and cyclops

[tacit hatch]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/519557/increase-ranger-arrow-speed < This

[rugged summit]

The new Market system is cool. But I really wish things would get De-listed once they are sold. It's pretty annoying that everything I clock buy on said it's already sold

[viscid dust]

When are they gonna put a set limit to the number of franchesca's you can carry in your inventory

[fiery saddle]

Give everyone the ranked cosmetic unlocks for being your play test team.

[rugged summit]

I think the best solution to that would be to make it so throwables can only go into Util Slots, and a Special "Utility Bag" that is a bag that takes up 4 invo slots but has space in it for 6 invo slots. Basically it mean that people can only bring max 6 throwables unless they have a Util bag... but then they have to go into a separate bag if they want to reload their util slots.

[viscid dust]

that'd be amazing, im tired of being run down by barbs with 6-12 sets of fran's in their inventory, if you can make the first 3 sets work i dont think you should be able to bring in any more. It's way too strong to be able to kill someone in 3 frans if they're a squishy class, but be able to hold/throw over 24... and its not only that you throw and equip them so fast

[idle crater]

if bards cant drum spam, barbs shouldnt be able to franny spam

[upbeat plaza]

They used to have a cap on how many traps you could bring. Just having a max cap for certain utility items would keep it fair. Maximum of 6 traps, knives, axes. imo

[idle crater]

what if you loot 6 sets of frans during the dungeon

[viscid dust]

both fair points, isn't a drum technically util aswell? they could cap that at like 2 and traps at 2 and frans at 3 sets

[upbeat plaza]

You can only hold a certain maximum 🤷‍♂️

[viscid dust]

tuff if they're better than the frans you brought in you replace them if not you can pick them up after you use a few that you're carrying

[pallid vector]

revert the new rotation system please it sucks as much as the old one

[sand swift]

i suggest you to replace the sytsem of the map it was better when we can choice wich map we want to do with solo duo or trio please put that system again

[formal wadi]

Dual wielding two weapons should give you 10% action speed on any class without needing a perk

[torn hazel]

uhh and with the perks from fighter itll be 25 very nice

[formal wadi]

You would remove that perk from fighter when this is added

[torn hazel]

then thats a L take my guy

[unreal cloak]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/s/QwKILpvMPk

Thoughts?

[wicked grove]

dual wielding should nerf damage 🙂

[woven junco]

spam roll back to make game good again

[torn hazel]

neet ideas but warlock does not need any more new shiny things to play with

This healing ability would be then added to blow of corruption.

Phantomize should deaggro mobs you walk through similar to chaotic discord. and these two seem broken

[unreal cloak]

Can you explain how? Id be interested in slightly nerfing the damage on BOW with this change. And phantomize at the least should deaggro the mobs on you similar to invisibility

[slate robin]

in a meta were speed is everything, why would someone want to do less dmg and be slower

[radiant hearth]

<@&1019888848773328936> General and other chats don't need to be as bad as they are. Today is a symptom and not the disease. If we handle things on "easy" days, hard ones like today aren't as hard.

There are enough mods to set schedules of an hour and constantly tamp it down. Coordinate or add new mods if coverage is needed. Don't wait for us to call you. Lay out guidelines on whats allowed and visibly hold that line. Visibility is key.

Being a part of this discord is a privilege and not a right. This is bad advertising and a poor reflection of our silent majority. We can be the most productive testing force in the industry with your help. We can do better, but can't do it without you. Help us, please.

I love this game and all of you.

[balmy latch]

Does someone need to remind the devs wipe is like 2 weeks out? Why even rollback if it wasn't immediately? Days away from wipe and we are being threatened with rollback with no time?

[coral heron]

When is the rollback happening???

[balmy latch]

Good question. They've teased it twice In 8 hours but here we are still no roll back. Players wasting their time unsure if the game is worth playing because all of their progressfrom the last x amount of hours all the way up till the rollback could be taken.

[fluid shadow]

with the rollback please do a rollback to the map selection changes. Right now is bullsh*t. Either let me pick whatever map or go back to rotation. I only play solo, don't leave me out of playing the map I wan't just cuz you want it for duos or trios.

[balmy latch]

How about a reasonable rotation timer? 1 hour is absolutely ridiculous. I thought 30 minutes was dumb LOL

[balmy latch]

Kinda sad they know if it was anything less than 30 minutes players would just wait for the map they want (aka ruins because it's the only good map) like fix the other maps if your players refuse to play them unless forced

[coral heron]

I apreciate the responce. The best answer, sadly. I hope it happens before tomorrow, I don't wanna miss this many days this close!!! 😢

[balmy latch]

It's sad cuz I love this game, and I know it's tough to make and manage a game, but dropping the marketplace with the previous dupe bugs on a Korean holiday w 3 devs in office maybe wasn't the best move.

[coral heron]

I'm with you, I both love this game and think that was a bad call. I don't get why they didn't wait till end of season for a bunch of this stuff considering the time table. I just wanna try for that demi cloak, is that to hard to ask for lol

[scarlet temple]

Extend season simple as