suggestion-discussion

[small furnace]

Oh my god you guys are being insane. Do you not get that I don't want to play against someone that does this game as a job? I want to play against people that do it for fun, not a job.

[vernal ether]

what exactly do you think you are unable to "keep up with them" on?

[short heath]

My guy, that's exactly how casuals feel about you and @abstract swallow

[abstract swallow]

if you're going to drag me into this at least give me something fun to cause arguments about
some of us work for a living

[cyan geode]

lmao 🙂

[small furnace]

The difference between these two situations is that I realistically only have a few hours each day, casuals can spare that too.

I don't mind if it's a skill diff, a gear diff or what. I just don't want to play against someone that has 14 hours per day to play this game.

That really is all it is. I have a work and family life and I cannot keep up with the rate at which they get better at the game. I will never be able to be as good as them because I can't spend all day every day playing the game.

[vernal ether]

anyway the gear cutoff is stupid because it's literally undermining the core stash mechanic the game is built around. it's obviously not a long-term solution. level-based matchmaking, level-restricted gear. problem solved, everyone can play the game the way they enjoy except the noob stompers who can go die

[iron gull]

add hr ruins, like, yesterday

[cyan geode]

no more hr maps.. make some new maps built for 1v1 2v2 3v3. full maps not red enemy versions of the originals..

[small furnace]

And for the record @vernal ether @short heath I know you guys like to portray me as some gear caped chad running around farming casuals but a MAJORITY of the time I play I play in grey gear because I genuinely find it more fun.

I just happen to like the opportunity to win against people in higher gear when I'm doing that. Not saying it's a fair fight, not saying it'll happen every time but when it does happen it feels really good.

[abstract swallow]

it'd be nice if we could get the missing floors before they add even more maps and queues

[short heath]

We can go places if you want to, just making the point that Kira's problem is exactly what new players/casuals have.

[ivory quartz]

We do not want SBMM or GBMM, the point of this change is to just make the new player experience not as bad

[vernal ether]

@small furnace cool. you can still do that under my system. just level to 20 and matchmake with those people

@ivory quartz Read, Comprehend, Post please, level-based matchmaking is neither skill-based nor gear-based, it does not take into account the gear you are wearing

[abstract swallow]

I'm a problem on purpose though, he's just got poor mental and fixates on stomp squads

[ivory quartz]

Why have LBMM, we had that before and it was pointless.

[cyan geode]

levels 1-5 should be a seperate lobby where newbs can learn the game and mechanics

[small furnace]

I'm not even talking about your system I'm talking about how you guys are making fun of me as if I'm one of these geared chads when I very rarely play in gear because I choose to play in greys most of the time.

[cyan geode]

or even levels 1-3

[light hound]

As I've always said since after the playtests (where everyone sucked) - the general skill-level of the community has gotten too high not to have a matchmaking system. It works without one when everyone doesn't know what they're doing and the playtime is literally a weekend

[vernal ether]

we have never had LBMM. separate lobbies for 15+ players is not matchmaking, it's just separate lobbies. DaD has never had any kind of matchmaking. also the point is to combine it with level restrictions on gear so that there is a better ease-in for new players and level 20s can still do whatever they want

[ivory quartz]

Then allow me to ammend my statement, There should be none, zero forms of matchmaking in this game. Is all we should have is a segregated queue in the from of normals and highroller and apply different rules to those two queues.

[vernal ether]

enjoy your dead empty game then

vv it's not, it's a separate lobby

[light hound]

You understand that HR is a form of matchmaking?

[small furnace]

Hopefully a ranked mode in the future separate from HR as well.

[vernal ether]

to be clear: matchmaking is when you selectively match players into lobbies together based on a criteria assigned to them or aggregated from their party. DaD does not have that and never has

HR is not matchmaking. separate lobbies for 1-14 is not matchmaking.

stuff like ELO and MMR are matchmaking

[small furnace]

That's not the industry definition of matchmaking.

Matchmaking is just the ability to queue up and getting put into a lobby with other people.

There are TYPES of matchmaking but DaD certainly does have matchmaking, it's just entirely disorganized.

[short heath]

🤣 fair enough.

[light hound]

Based on your definition, I think IM is coming to the realization that the data completely disagrees with the idea that Matchmaking is not good for this game. It most certainly is. The implementation is what's important

This is demonstrated by their second attempt at limiting player over-power

[small furnace]

What the hell does this even mean?

[short heath]

Devs always take about 2 months to realize what career players realize in 2 weeks.

[vernal ether]

that's fine if it's not the industry definition, it's the one I am using for this discussion as it is the closest applicable term.

@light hound I agree but I don't think anyone wants MMR, certainly not me. I just want new players to be on a level playing field, and for there to be a mechanical way to keep the dudes who run around in +damage everything to their own lobbies. I think my solution puts as neat a bow on it as possible, and would relieve a lot of the grief without keeping people from playing how they want (unless that way is to stomp undergeared people)

vv this guy is proposing GBMM. I am not

[fallow ingot]

have a hidden gear score system that estimates the power of gear, and have players matchmake depending on gear score "its hidden so people cant smurf as bad knowingly"

[light hound]

I'm just waiting for them to implement a full matchmaking algorithm and add it without the emotional "hardcore" players (who apparently never play HR even though they're "hardcore") knowing - they just don't have the manpower to make anything that's robust atm (I'm guessing)

[signal yew]

ironmace make it so greens cant roll max stat for example +1 weapon dmg, blue +2 weapon dmg, purple +3 etc

[vernal ether]

the only thing I think "gear score" should be used for is making the level restriction on gear slightly higher if it's got really good rolls

[short heath]

Having a tiered affix table for loot would be great if implemented alongside GBMM.

[ivory quartz]

no GBMM bad, should not be in game.

[vernal ether]

but also may be unnecessary because gear stats need to be adjusted so that gear doesn't roll with completely worthless or totally unrelated buffs

[small furnace]

Look man, I'm passionate about there not being huge amounts of gear segregation in this game because that's what made me fell in love with it among other things.

If ya'll wanna characterize me as crazy or messed up to fit your point then whatever, I only been playing since early access though and maybe I'm an exception but I enjoy getting stomped by other players until I can 'git gud' so to speak and the learning process for me feels immensely good and is one that cookie cutter MMR systems don't cut it for me on.

It is what it is but I hope the game doesn't keep going in this direction.

[smoky iris]

AUCTION HOUSE PLS

[light hound]

It's a thought, but this further devides geared vs ungeared, you'd have to keep the big gear in HR somehow

New players would struggle even more

[storm blade]

so what is everyone going to say when people get the best gear you can get for normal and kills you

[vernal ether]

@light hound have a look at my plan

[fallow ingot]

only solution imo

[abstract swallow]

they'll complain on reddit when Johnny Cape and his three +damage +all kitted friends roll through the entire lobby to freefarm inferno

[short heath]

That devs implemented a terrible form of MM instead of using their brains. Istg they need to look at my suggestion.

[vernal ether]

Johnny Cape lmao. love that
pretty sure it'd only be 2 friends though

[small furnace]

Crying will persist no matter what. This game could be limited to greens only and it would be the same thing.

[storm blade]

i mean now if u pick the right gear and go to norms you are legit god cuz noone can have better stuff then you

[cerulean ruin]

Suggestion: Put Weapon dmg rolls on Weapons / Armor Rolls on Armor / And only jewelry's the ability for +1 all attributes
What do you guys think?
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/500765/suggestion-put-weapon-dmg-rolls-on-weapons-armor-rolls-on-armor-and-only-jewelry

[vernal ether]

anything that stops putting +knowledge and +memory capacity on morningstars

[storm blade]

i cant wait for greens and blues to be worth more then other gear for this reason

[ivory quartz]

Nope gear segregated queus like this is the best form of MM they could possibly implement. They prob should have limited norms to greens only rather than blues, but besides that this was a good change. The purpose of it is not to make it fair for casuals, it is just to make them feel a little better when they get rolled, because seeing someone in full purps feels bad to lose against.

[abstract swallow]

yes
gear dependent classes get munched while +damage stackers eat good and there's no access to budget high tier items to bridge the gap

[storm blade]

i bet a good blue sells more now then the same purp

[short heath]

Yep

[cerulean ruin]

I think balancing overall would be easier if you have proper rolls in proper places

[ivory quartz]

They will and that is good.

[vernal ether]

it's a terrible form of MM that undermines the core mechanic of the stash that the game is built around. it may alleviate the problem somewhat but it's not good game design

[storm blade]

how is this good its legit going to make timmy never get gear haha

[small furnace]

The market for purples is about to crash since the buyerbase will be decreased 10x if not more.

[short heath]

Combined with lower drop rates, too.

[small furnace]

Drop rates aren't getting hit THAT hard unless I read those patch notes wrong. Only a few chests are getting adjusted it seems.

[storm blade]

timmy now can only get purps and cant use them so now timmy has to go HR hahahaha

[vernal ether]

I do wonder what Graysun and sdf are thinking because none of this has been particularly good design. it all feels very kneejerk and arbitrary, not holistic solutions at all

[ivory quartz]

How? It preserves the core mechanics of the game, better than any other change would. If we implemented GBMM than gear wouldn't matter,

[light hound]

The point I try to inject into this mindset in the community is that we had a VERY different "git gud" phase in playtests while learning than new players have now. You enjoyed your time learning the game in a VERY different state of the game and average skill-level. You could die countless times over a weekend playtest/beginning of early access because you knew everyone was new and learning and that your gear was going poof at the end of the weekend anyway.

People hardly knew how to build, they didn't know how to unequip to chance, people didn't know how to jump-tech for speed, didn't know the maps, etc etc.

When everyone sucks, you don't need to worry about who plays with who, it's always a "fair" experience

If you started the game today, would you stick to it even if there was no ray of hope that you could catch up to the geared and experienced players rolling your "beginner" lobbies? I don't know, but everyone has a limit to the abuse they can take in a game before they get fed up with it, or lose their hope for advancement, and just quit.

The data is showing us pretty steep player dropoff between wipes (less after the over-abundance of gold))

[vernal ether]

if you can bring stuff to your stash that you cannot then take back out with you, that undermines the core stash mechanic. not a difficult thing to wrap one's head around

[ivory quartz]

You can take it with you, do highroller. The entire reason we have high roller is to keep geared people out of normals by enticing them to do more difficult content.

[short heath]

Common misconception. Gear upgrades still matter because they allow you to clear pve faster and therefore traverse the dungeon/position in rings faster to gain a tactical pvp advantage.

[vernal ether]

ignoring the obvious problems with HR, if I'm a new player with less than 100 gold who found a purple?

[small furnace]

Brother I just said I didn't start during the playtests. I started 2 weeks into early access after people had already amassed enough gear to start rolling.

I don't think I would have a different experience if I started today, but if you think so I can't really say anything to change that cause I can't change reality.

[storm blade]

well u cant sell it or use it so hahaha

[ivory quartz]

Sell it

[vernal ether]

lol. I'm sorry, you are too stupid to be worth arguing with

[raven idol]

exactly, I feel the point of purple and beyond gear should be for HR games and for preparing yuorself against players in HR as well as the harder PVE you will encounter

[hot hemlock]

Means u get to stash it and not use it ever because new player gear fear moment

[storm blade]

who is going to buy it thou u legit now onlyhave 20 percent of the people looking to buy it and we dont need more gear to be honest

[vernal ether]

no one's going to buy it because you're a new player and don't have access to the market

[frosty juniper]

I think instead of gating gear to different dungeons gear should instead have lower rolls on them so that they never become way too op instead. Helps make PvE more of a problem to handle too which is good imo.

[lament matrix]

Arrows need a bigger dropoff either on damage or on the curve that they take.

[light hound]

That's still very different to now, start of early access brought a bunch of new players in - your experience was likely much less hardcore than today

[vernal ether]

I haven't looked at the player numbers recently-- how bad has the dropoff been? I did notice familiar faces in a few lobbies

[ivory quartz]

Well now that we have gear segregated queus, the market should be available from lvl 5 onward and not lvl 15. no point restricting it anymore, especially given we removed sub 15 queues

[storm blade]

if the game was on steam its still top 50

[small furnace]

I haven't noticed a decrease when I glance at the number of people in game all the time.

[ivory quartz]

we have stabilized it looks like. Game has been hovering around 20k players online daily for 2 weeks.

[light hound]

I think the high abundance of drops from chests has increased player retention

less gear-fear = more retention

[abstract swallow]

player retention hasn't changed much, you're still seeing like 20~26k depending on the day
regardless of game quality, it'll continue to fall off until steam release

[ivory quartz]

reall? well let us see then. I personally think the high drop rate of good items is bad for the games economy and needs to be nerfed. But should lowering drop rates hurt plater numbers I would be willing to support keeping high loot rates.

[vernal ether]

getting stomped by capes = lower retention

the game is fun in grays. the playtests were great and you hardly saw greens there, let alone blue and better. I don't think gear is a significant factor on retention except in the abundance of people with broken builds who effortlessly wipe the floor with you, which is Not Fun and makes people stop playing

[light hound]

I think them tweaking down the treasures and trinkets (main source of cash) is a good attempt to correct this until there are more money-sinks, so this version might be closer to a sweet spot

[ivory quartz]

Well that is the purpose of this change to the queue, it is to put a limit on just how hard noobs can be stomped. I think the limit is too high, I would have banned blue gear from norms as well, allowing only junk, whites and greens in, and restricted all else to HR.

[vernal ether]

I honestly think the main reason they have made gear so plentiful is so that they can try to balance high gear to make sure that purple/legendary stuff isn't too wildly overpowered, hence all the adjustments to scaling for different classes and the weird tiers of how much you actually get out of a stat boost

[ivory quartz]

Nah I played all the playtests, a week in everyone was stomping with chad kits. We knew +wep damage and +magic were bis even back then

[vernal ether]

a week in the game was wiped and the playtest was over you absolute mongoloid, lmfao

[crude inlet]

fr clapped a lengendary geared wizard with a blue longsword with damage stack

[ivory quartz]

nah most playtests lasted two weeks or more.

[vernal ether]

I remember +magic being a problem with old Judgement which is why they nerfed the damage on it. but I only ever got clapped by one of those clerics once

[small furnace]

God no, if they restrict blues from coming in I'll just be done with this game man. Like zzzzz where's the thrill of the kill if I know every person I kill is just gonna have greens at best with one good roll.

[vernal ether]

whereas there's a longbow guy with +dmg in every slot in basically every single crypts lobby now

[abstract swallow]

I think the biggest reason I dislike this version of gearcapping is that it makes High Roller the 'intended progression' when it was at its best when it was an opt-in risk/reward for PKers, leaderboard sweats, and experienced players
now fresh faced Timmy-15 is told to go to High Roller to be eaten alive because he picked up a purple sword and can't re-queue

[elfin vale]

I shouldv'e started this counter when I first heard about it weeks ago, but i guess later is better than never.

DAY ONE of asking for a queue separate from anyone in the Trader's Guild. (IRONMAN QUEUE, IRONMAN CHARACTERS) @keen onyx @dawn grotto

[ivory quartz]

Play HR, if you know how to play and have any amount of cash, you should be doing HR.

[vernal ether]

make Ironman the only way to play imho :) delete market

[small furnace]

Just as soon as they segregate leaderboards from HR I will. I don't like the incentive to mow through players as it stands.

[light hound]

The main thing reducing money in the economy does it preserve space in the stash and slow down inflation - storage issue mostly (at least in the short-term). It's not a total disaster if 1 gold is worth almost nothing if there's a way to store it. The inflation issue is based on a balance point of when supply starts getting used up at the same rate as it comes into the economy - the current money sinks are merchants, trade fees, and crafting (are there any more money sinks?), which isn't enough per-player to offset the incoming gold of the economy.

[vernal ether]

but seriously separate queues for people who haven't signed up for traders' guild would not be a bad idea at all

[abstract swallow]

this would just be gold farmer city, which we already have more than enough of

[small furnace]

I am pretty sure IM admitted that they do intend for people to go to HR as natural progression, that's why they had several patches trying to figure out how to incentivize more people to come into HR.

They even said they were gonna do something about leaderboards cause people were complaining... and then they made them even more grindier for some reason? Bad fix, but they're trying I guess.

[vernal ether]

I think the only significant money sink aside from crafting is dying and the circle claiming your stuff, which is relatively common

@small furnace they had several patches incentivizing people to come into HR because no one played it. not because they want everyone to end up there eventually

[elfin vale]

@abstract swallow and how is that possible if u cant trade bro? when u make the char, u lock it so it can never trade, and those queues are separate. if anyone who joins ur group isnt iron, they cant queue with you

[unborn mulch]

HR > Norms, way funner, less people just instarushing you cuz mobs are annoying

[abstract swallow]

did you forget droptrading exists

[light hound]

So if we track that back:

The gear came from a player who extracted (generated for free), then sold on trade for 30g sink, then player lost it. So the main things lost when someone dies in the game is trade fees and merchant fees (gear/pots/arrows) - the gear actually doesn't remove any money

[small furnace]

The point is, they do want more people playing HR, and they were SUPPOSED to try and fix it this patch with a new leaderboard system. Course atm they only made it worse.

I am pretty sure HR being a progression of the game is the intent, as this patch has kind of shown us as well.

[vernal ether]

that isn't what I suggested, I assume @abstract swallow is saying you would hold off on joining until you'd filled your inventory with gold ingots, then sell them, move the gold, make a new character, rinse repeat

drop trading is very risky and not really a significant thing to balance imho

[elfin vale]

when u make a char, u can choose to iron it, and it cant trade or queue with anyone who can trade. so how does a droptrader buy things to drop you if they cant queue with you? theyd have to farm it all themselves legitmimately which is fine with me

[abstract swallow]

also this hit the nail on the head
the low-pop regions during 1-14 were just full of gibberish names mining or chest rushing

[vernal ether]

again shows how the market ruins the game and shouldn't exist in the first place

[small furnace]

Me on my way to leave ruins with 1500g worth of ore while the low level casuals die to skeletons.

[vernal ether]

it creates incentives for people to do things that are not playing the game. which is bad.

[abstract swallow]

weird way to take that but go off king
this game needs to decide on how much it's going to pander to casuals and how much it's gonna gut from its core concept before it ends up as a John Hayes video

[light hound]

I have recently been thinking that removing trade would be an interesting direction for the game - or at the very least, limiting it significantly. I think the trade chat is a significant part of the experience for a lot of players though - it does make looting fun more often. The game would need to drop class-specific gear to increase odds of finding good stuff for YOU too

[vernal ether]

you say "pandering to casuals" like prioritizing the enjoyment of the majority of the playerbase is a bad thing

[ancient grove]

Give barbarians a dash or leap for gap closing

[abstract swallow]

this slow descent into "okay, okay, reddit complained about X" is going to strangle IM long before they see a steam release

[small furnace]

I was agreeing with you dummy.

Gold mining is currently the easiest most riskless way to farm loads of money. It would be even worse if 1-14 lobbies were around.

[abstract swallow]

I was talking to the other guy, discord is just slow

[vernal ether]

hi, I'm the other guy

[abstract swallow]

do you know a single person who came back to play the game consistently because of a pandering change?
because the numbers certainly haven't been going up

[small furnace]

I agree with this hard.

Gold mining is so damn boring but it's so free and you can fill a stash with gold purses in a matter of hours by doing it.

Well I agree with the incentives part for people 'not playing the game' I don't agree it's the Market's fault.

[ancient grove]

Game is close to wipe people are just waiting for wipe day and the main reason is they dont want to waste time or dont like dying to mega geared players

[ivory quartz]

What do you mean, this change was really good and not what reddit wanted. Reddit wanted gear stats to be removed or normalized. This change allows us to keep the gear disparity, it merely caps it for normals and allows us to run wild in HR. Which is how it should be, people with gear and experience should go to HR, and should be doing it regularly. I get it HR is scary, mobs are harder there is more mob density, no killfeed to tell you how many people are left, but we as a community need to get over it and start playing HR, and if IM has to force it so be it.

[vernal ether]

the approved way to grind should be going into the game with your group, fighting the enemies, possibly fighting other teams, looting chests, and escaping to sell your stuff to the collector. anything that incentivizes other "playstyles" like market arbitrage or literal gold farming are bad things that make the game worse

its also kinda funny to me that IM has banned all discussion of eal-ray oney-may rading-tay

[tawdry sail]

isnt it interesting minutes within a wipe you can buy however much g you want lol i wonder why we have a meta where you buy your kit to win

[ancient grove]

The Chinese probably make up a large proportion of players perhaps?

[small furnace]

When/if a proper ranked mode comes out we'll see. I might even agree with you then, but given the current status of HR being inexplicably tied to some kind of hardcore ranked mode in the way it is I don't really think it's the place for us to 'run wild' so to speak.

[ivory quartz]

nah buying comodities and playing the market is fun. Best way to increase your stash size, I will make more spending my time in trade chat than you will running dungeons.

[light hound]

I don't blame them if they continue pivoting based on what works. Just basing everything on "the data" can usually be really effective, but sometimes the interpretation, or how they react to it, can be completely off the mark.

If I was a dev, I certainly wouldn't want to make a game only for a very niche specific type of player. I'd much rather find ways to bring in all types of players - even "cozy gamers". Just like how Riot Games released TFT for people who don't want the intensity of a league match, they're hitting all different markets of gamers. This is the modern day gaming masterpieces - they've got something for everyone

[vernal ether]

yeah we already know you're a g*mer

[small furnace]

WHAT did you just say?

TFT is aimed at an entirely different market than league is. It wasn't released for league players, it was released to be a competitor to DotA auto chess.

[ancient grove]

Game gets diluted if you try to cast that wide of a net

[light hound]

Yeah, exactly

[terse pier]

JUST IMPLEMENT GBMM PLSSSSSSS WTF IS THIS TRASH

[vernal ether]

every game that has balanced based on streamers and competitive players has suffered for it. would be really sad to see DaD go down that route. shit like prox voice makes the game way more fun and is the very definition of casual

[ancient grove]

They did just now

[ivory quartz]

They should not be making a game for any niche or community of players. They should be making a game for themselves, a game they believe in and want to make, and then if their vision has merit it will attract an audience as it has.

[light hound]

You'll need to focus in a bit at first to make a great experience for fewer people (not crazy niche though) - once you've got your feet firmly in place you can expand

[terse pier]

this isn't gear based matchmaking, it's a total segregation of the players

[vernal ether]

this is the first thing you've said that I agree with

[light hound]

Uhhh, that honestly doesn't sound like a good pitch for a studio at all

They should be pationate about a project, but they need to know people would want to play it if they are going to put a lot of effort into building it

Truly "new" game concepts are incredibly risky endeavor, I would much rather make a tweaked version of a successful genre than delve into the unknown

Every game should pivot if no-one is playing it

[ember moon]

A needed segregation

[ivory quartz]

Exactly that is why it is good, GBMM is fucking horrible for a game like this, we need gear disparity for gear to matter.

[vernal ether]

🫵 paypig

[small furnace]

That's actually kind the exact reason that I want the game to remain as unrestricted as it is tho?

I like the idea that it's the wild west and pvp is asymmetrical and weird.

I come from Dark Souls PvP and this game hits the sweet spot for me of that Asymmetrical pvp that I enjoy.

[terse pier]

gear based matchmaking would allow for an actual diversity in gear rather than a binary queue that people are just going to twink with blues

[vernal ether]

I've only advocated for restrictions as part of an onboarding ramp, you are still free to go wild once you hit level 20 and it's no less asymmetrical

[terse pier]

Dark Souls range-based soul matchmaking would be a good start for how the ranges of gear scores could interact

[vernal ether]

everyone hates soul matchmaking lmao this guy

[ember moon]

Regardless of opinion it's not good for new players/low lvl characters to be in the same lobbies as fully geared people. It turns from pvp and run away and hide most lobbies and thats not good.

[ancient grove]

It isnt horrible there is a point where it's just ridiculous a good analogy would be boxing weight classes even if you are extremely skilled size still matters

[small furnace]

Please tell me you are talking about SL matchmaking and not soul memory like your message would imply.

[terse pier]

huh? Idk why you think my message implies I like SM, that shit was ass. I just meant SL.

[ivory quartz]

This is not a skill based game, it is loot progression based game. We should not be trying to give people fair matchups.

[terse pier]

Meanwhile when every souls game comes out the community immediately starts talking about where the SL meta will be because pvp players usually want a reasonably even fight

[small furnace]

That's not why people talk about the SL meta, you entirely miss the point.

People talk about the SL Meta so everybody knows where to stop levelling so they'll keep getting fights.

[ancient grove]

So you just want to bully people?

[terse pier]

It's for a multitude of reasons, that's one of them

[vernal ether]

yeah the SL meta is so you don't end up in a dead zone with no players once the population decreases

[terse pier]

ya and that's why SM was an abomination, I know about this stuff I banged out the og DS games

[brave vale]

Here's the best suggestion: Cut ALL +WD/+AxD/+TxD enchantments on gear by half.

[terse pier]

I refer to DS matchmaking purely in the sense of the values being used to matchmaking - it's 10% either way in souls if I'm not mistaken, so a level 100 player can get matched with lvl 90 - 110

[vernal ether]

lol if you think more incremental adjustments to existing gear stats will fix anything

[small furnace]

Look, my initial point is that DS matchmaking is anything but 'fair'.

The mere premise of an invasion puts the person being invaded at a disadvantage, with a few pluses to try and even the odds.

That asymmetrical matchmaking where players aren't necessarily on an even playing field is so interesting to me, that's what kept me hooked on dark and darker given it has the same kind of thing.

[ivory quartz]

Not particularly, I just recognize that the actual game play loop for this game is the gear progression which only matters if gear disparity exists. So yes I want that to remain. I think you are mistaken if you believe this game is skill based, this is a loot based RPG it is as skill based as runescape or WoW or any other mmo with these rpg and loot rarity systems.

[vernal ether]

the system needs a holistic rework, and gear needs to be rarer in general, but I assume they're testing these builds and collecting stats

[terse pier]

the soul matchmaking level range is literally there to give the host a fighting chance, otherwise you'd get stomped in undeadburg by full havels or w/e
don't tell me you're on of these "dark souls is the most hardcore game ever" people

[ancient grove]

The game has lots of areas for skill expression if you cant see that then there is not point in arguing with you

[ivory quartz]

Dark souls is a far more skill based, and far less loot based game than this

[vernal ether]

I agree there is no point arguing with him

[small furnace]

I'm... not. I'm literally saying the matchmaking just isn't fair, it isn't always an even playing field and that's what I like about it. It's what kept me hooked for thousands of hours.

[terse pier]

And that's how GBMM should work - not totally FAIR - use a broad range so people in greys can meet people in blues but they're not getting stomped by people who are bringing 1000g worth of gear in every game a few weeks into wipe

[small furnace]

I still don't want that though. I would rather just get a grab bag of whatever players happen to be available.

[ivory quartz]

Skill expression in this game is an illusion to allow you to feel good when you gear gap people or mobs. I like it, this is a fun game, but I believe you fundamentally misunderstand what this game is, and why it is fun. If you want to experience skill expression go try mordhau

[terse pier]

This leads to too many games where your only viable option is to totally avoid pvp

[terse pier]

dude that's cringe, skill expression should be a bigger factor and just because you disagree doesn't mean it's necessarily a bad point

[vernal ether]

there's not really such thing as "fair" matchmaking as player skill is next to impossible to quantify and all games with MMR have smurfing problems and rarely make matches that feel even. but like I said my solution with level-based matchmaking still allows you to get asymmetrical gameplay once you have, you know, played the game and learned how it works. and also focuses more on progressing your character which is undoubtedly going to be a big part of the game since it is based on D&D

[terse pier]

yes but you can very easily figure out what's fair in a game with potent stats and huge gear differences - is it fair for a grey level 1 player to be matched against a lvl 20 in blues? Nah

[small furnace]

I don't mean 'perfectly fair' when I said fair of course.

I just mean I like the idea that it's asymmetrical at it's core. Which Dark and Darker currently is.

[terse pier]

It's not asymmetrical - that implies it's designed to actually mix the players based on their gear. e.g. low gear with higher gear - It doesn't do that, it is totally random on the kind of game you're going to get

[ivory quartz]

Skill expression doesnt and hasn't existed in this game, as I said it is an illusion which covers up the fact you are or are getting gear gapped. This game is just WoW or any other mmo in that regard, it is the nature of full loot pvp games. This game is not and should not be chivalry.

[terse pier]

L take lmfao

[vernal ether]

kind of agree. DbD is asymmetrical. there is symmetry in DaD, it's just random

[terse pier]

☝🏻

with the introduction of 1/2/3 man specific queues its become even more symmetrical, if you want asymettry we should go back to 1 map for everyone

[vernal ether]

the asymmetry comes primarily in the form of what class makeups you choose for your party

[terse pier]

Also I don't subscribe to the notion that D&D should copy other extraction games. There are more interesting paths ahead of this game imo

[ancient grove]

Cleric is too strong in the meta people are revolving their comps around it which shouldn't be a thing

[vernal ether]

I don't think cleric is nearly as strong now that people realize bard is good, and campfires are actually relatively common, but hopefully druid comes with some healing/buffs

[ancient grove]

Bard was broken I agree

[terse pier]

Cleric is in a weird place, they can be really good on their own, and are insanely strong in a team. Bard also did need the fat nerfs. I think in general 3s is much easier to win with a healer, maybe that's a problem. I saw someone suggest the idea of "black health" e.g. when you take a bunch of damage you can't reach max hp because of that black health blockin you, but idk if it's necessary ?

[ancient grove]

Maybe add a healing cooldown or make consecutive heals weaker

[terse pier]

yeah something like that could work, a heal reduction debuff

[vernal ether]

I understand wanting there to be gear disparity so that you can punch upwards, although I don't think that's as fun in a game designed specifically with a high TTK, but there is currently a huge problem with people rolling almost every lobby in god tier kits and there is basically no incentive to fight people because the risk massively outweighs the likelihood of a reward.

I also think that slowing the game down is not a bad thing at all, the worst part of bard was that you could refill your cleric's spells as you went so they never really needed to sit

[bright rune]

why cant you bring in coin purse it shouldnt count as higher than rare

[vernal ether]

also spell capacity was sorely needed for bard

[terse pier]

high ttk ruins the nuance of this game, they need to nerf burst damage across the board. Throw triple shot in the bin pls.

[vernal ether]

I think you mean low ttk? high time to kill means it takes longer to kill someone, nerfing burst damage would reduce TTK

[terse pier]

oh yaya my bad - ttk should be long af

[vernal ether]

I agree that a big part of what attracts me to this game over other extraction games is that it... was... impossible to kill someone at range with one shot

if I wanted to be headshot across the map by someone I didn't see I'd just play Tarkov

[ancient grove]

Triple shot is op they should just make it a double shot for all bows

[terse pier]

combined with the armour pen + headshot stuff rangers can get it's honsetly disgusting

[small furnace]

Just sayin but the biggest contender for one shots right now is blow of corruption. I unironically got the jump on a warlock as a fighter with full HP and hit him 3 times before he just turned around and hit me ONCE with his staff blow of corruption to instakill me. Wish I recorded it.

[dreamy hornet]

MAKE IT SO U CAN BRING A GOLD POUCH INTO A RAID WHY IS IT LEGENDARY

[vernal ether]

yeah I agree but he at least can only do that in melee distance. rangers stacking +dmg on a longbow are a menace

[terse pier]

yea blow of corruption needs some lookin' at, nobody is using the "reduce healing" part of that ability

[ancient grove]

If they nerf triple shot into the ground maybe rangers can see the other skills that exist in their class lol

[terse pier]

tru, it's a problem with a lot of classes in general, one option/build is so strong all the others are made pointless

[small furnace]

I mean yeah he can only do that in melee range, but he has mid-range abilities too and if you're a fighter running up on a caster I'd like to think you have the advantage... which I clearly don't atm.

[terse pier]

phases through your attack

[vernal ether]

again, I agree with you, but in fairness Warlock is clearly meant as a melee fighter, not just a caster, hence why they can use halberds and falchions n shit

[cunning osprey]

Coin Purse not able to be brought into normal now RIP

[small furnace]

To be super clear. I got one-shot by a staff bonk. Not a halberd or a falchion.

He is a melee fighter sure but he shouldn't be a stronger melee fighter at closer range than fighter is.

[vernal ether]

but the boc staff bonk is for sure a bit ridiculous and has been since warlock was added

[small furnace]

OHHH Now it makes sense. That's why they updated the rarity of coin purses. What is this change for? They make it so you can't bring coin purses into normal to reduce the money you get out with? hahahahaha

What a silly roundabout way to try and nerf things. Coin purses aren't the problem lmao

[terse pier]

It do be weird.. Maybe it's to stop smurfing? Like people dropping gold to transfer to low level friends/trade to alts

[small furnace]

This just doesn't happen very often if at all.

Besides cobalt ingots exist, they are blue and a decent way to store money if you wanna transfer it via drop.

[terse pier]

Ya just trying to figure out the reason for that change lol

[vernal ether]

well, gold coins were already unique
so it could just be to match

[mystic yoke]

I hope the gear pool separation works out. I would have preferred a real MMR instead

[terse pier]

I personally can already see the gear pool sucking hard but we shall see how it plays out

[vernal ether]

it feels arbitrary, I don't think they know what they are doing tbh

[midnight wigeon]

is cobalt now valueable with the rairity barriers ??

[mystic yoke]

It worked... somewhat, when The Cycle tried it. But they also had MMR which was the more significant factor

[terse pier]

I think they realized that the chad pub stomps were ruining the game for anyone who wasn't doing that or intentionally playing a rat playstyle, and this is another bandaid fix to adress it? Just like the 1-14 queue was

[midnight wigeon]

purps & ruby strictly HR might be a bad move tbh. Now im Hr locked til i lose my gearset

[vernal ether]

agreed. I'm glad they are realizing it. but that's all it is, a bandaid. need a holistic solution

[terse pier]

📠

[mystic yoke]

I wonder if they simply lack the coding necessary for MMR right now, I am not aware that stats are tracked in any way besides Leaderboard stuff

For individual players, at least. I can't go see my K/D ratio, or even who killed me after a match - it's just the kill feed.

[terse pier]

yeah it's a good question, I think they could at least implement a "hacky" solution fairly quickly - gear score is already somewhat represented in the vendor sale price, could use that

[vernal ether]

just offloaded two +1 all blue items for 150g each that uhhh would not have sold for that yesterday, so...

[terse pier]

In light of this, it honestly feels like they're wasting time implementing the gear segregation when they should just be moving ahead with some kind of GBMM

[vernal ether]

people don't want GBMM. I think a more appropriate bandaid would be wiping inventories again and returning gear drops to what they were on release, but I suspect they want test data on geared builds

[terse pier]

Maybe they don't want it but this game needs it

I think it's only people who don't grasp the various ways GBMM could be implemented in a way that doesn't detract from the hardcore experience

[small furnace]

A first glance at trade chat post-patch reveals that everybody appears to be trying to unload their purple gear onto others now.

[vernal ether]

yeah purples selling for 50g lol

[terse pier]

Purples = trash now basically lol

[whole whale]

or you just buy different gear?

[terse pier]

They probably need to make HR worthwhile before forcing players into HR

[vernal ether]

HR is less worthwhile than it's ever been with the rarity changes
and people hardly played it before, lol

[terse pier]

Definitely, now you're guaranteed to meet purple geared players

[small furnace]

If they do what someone suggested earlier and separate ranked leaderboards from HR I think it'll be better. Cause it'll separate the cloutgrinders from people actually looking to progress.

There is currently no reason to go to HR if you're just looking to progress.

[vernal ether]

I meant because you don't get shit out of it you can't get from normal lobbies, but yeah that too

[ripe prairie]

trading is the worst experience in the game and the system is unacceptable . Change it to auction house/ trading post

[vernal ether]

counterpoint: remove trading from the game

[small furnace]

I like trading, but I would rather it be removed than sit in it's current state forever. Devs have been ignoring how terrible of an experience trading has become for the past 3 patches now.

[vernal ether]

trading has become a terrible experience because of how ubiquitous good loot is, so people buying on the market have become very picky because they can just ignore any sales except for gear that has the stats they want

[small furnace]

Isn't just that. I'm tired of the people that have scripts for trading too.

Like waiting half an hour for the item I want to pop up and then someone else has clicked trade the millesecond before I did because they didn't even need to read the message.

Just an add an auction house so I don't have to play this losing battle against bots.

[hardy vector]

all spell casters need a knowledge nerf and overall magic dmg nerf

[fathom bolt]

all? do you know how long most spells take for clerics and warlocks to cast with their base knowledge

[pastel basalt]

cooin purse shouldnt be a unique item

[spark crest]

literally wrost patch on limit gear

[restive aurora]

agreed. and im a wiz main lol

[terse pier]

not a damage caster main so correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it the scaling that makes, wizard for example, so strong?

[restive aurora]

lol a basically naked wiz can 2 shot most classes with fireball

[small furnace]

It's the lack of good MR stacking that makes wizards so strong even in a grey kit. An 80% PDR fighter will still die in 5 zaps to a basic wizard.

[terse pier]

unrelated, they should just go back to 1-14 queue if they want a short term solution to pub stomps

[small ibex]

There needs to be more magic resist gear in the game it's crazy how you cant get over 30% MDR

[restive aurora]

one thing is for sure they just confused the hell out of the economy. i thought these chinese bozos spamming "1key" for mid gear was bad but lmfao gl now

like yea...u got a good item there but its not worth 5k LOL tf? now that its even harder to make gold again...how can the economy keep up with the raising prices of god tier blues now? idk

[short heath]

There is no progression currently outside of gear progression and leaderboards.

[vernal ether]

gold ore farming

[small furnace]

Leaderboard isn't really progression it's just clout/bragging rights.

Yes I did mean gear progression in that instance.

[paper abyss]

Gear just needs to be less impactful the previous patch had great stats on gear and felt more like a skill check than gear check in pvp

[short heath]

They need to release questlines sooner than not to give people goals beyond gear progression and rolling lobbies.

[small furnace]

Agreed. I would not be opposed to them making leaderboard serve a purpose too via cosmetic ranked rewards in the future. That would be a form of progression I could get behind. Not a huge fan of the "Do this just to get your name out there" style of progression.

[vernal ether]

the previous patch was trash, the game has been getting steadily worse since release in most ways

[eternal shore]

What do you guys think about a lobby where you have to bring in nothing

[paper abyss]

Last patch was trash due to the dupe issue, but gear balance felt better than ever before.

[short heath]

A lot of people don't even want that from leaderboards. They just like the competition and knowing they did better than the vast majority of the playerbase.

[vernal ether]

gear is way too easy to get and all the normal crypts lobbies are pubstomps

[paper abyss]

gear being easy to get is what allows people to fight the pubstomps, more gear = everybody is geared, less gear = only top % is geared

[vernal ether]

that's why they made this change, which won't really fix that much
gear being easy to get is why the pubstomps exist

[paper abyss]

if you think the top players that pubstomp getting gear only because it drops alot you are mistaken, the pubstomping occurs because the stats exist on the high end gear

[small furnace]

Eh, I guess. I don't feel this is the kind of game to play ranked for the sake of ranked though. Not really a game where I feel skill expression is the top contributing factor.

Would rather they just be segregated, but I wouldn't mind incentives to make the grinding seem halfway worth it.

[vernal ether]

who gives a fuck if the top % is geared, the top % won't be in most of your games. you still have to earn your gear fighting the pubstompers

[terse pier]

Seen a few people saying this, hopefully after the next wipe we'll get everything good from that patch added back in

[paper abyss]

The top % is what are pubstomping you lol, atleast for me

[abstract swallow]

that is some wild cope, even for this chat

[vernal ether]

do you even understand how a bell curve works? your argument makes no sense

[glacial sphinx]

They only need to reduce added damage rolls a bit (instead of 25 max it should be around 15-16) and the gear difference is fine. Gear cap ultimately is not the solution.

Second thing is High Roller needs to be more accessible. Make it cheaper or free and reduce the rewards slightly, especially the value of high lvl treasure causes too much gold inflation.

[terse pier]

it's not the top % pub stomping, it's probably more like 30%

[paper abyss]

the add damage modifiers and weapon damage all need to be reduced for the pvp to not feel one sided with gear. It's not because it's prevalent and dropping alot, it's because the high end gear is so much better than the latter

[short heath]

Skill expression should always be a contributing factor, and the fact that they made leaderboards based on an average with a decay mechanic supports that the devs acknowledge this and want skill to actually play a role in the game/leaderboard chasing.

[vernal ether]

there's only 6 teams in a crypts lobby, max. last patch every single lobby had at least 1 team in purples pubstomping, so it wasn't even worth fighting other teams unless you were also there to pubstomp. this is because they cranked up the loot dial to max

unless by "last patch" you mean "last wipe"

[paper abyss]

Well regardless of that the issue will exist in HR regardless with the gear existing.

[short sorrel]

I think they should limit the bonuses to gear based on the gears rarity. Greens should have a max of one bonus that is +1 in something, i.e. wpn dmg/attribute. Blues should have a max of +2 and 2 bonuses.

[terse pier]

if you weren't looted it was practically pointless trying any kind of pvp

[vernal ether]

playing HR is opting into that shit. that's the point. that's supposed to be the tryhard lobby

[small furnace]

I understand but pairing people that just want to progress via gear with people that want to chase the leaderboard leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I am an appreciator of the former, not the latter. It's fine for people that do want to, but I don't really wanna be grouped in with them.

[paper abyss]

The teams that go in kitted to the teeth will be kitted to the teeth regardless of how much loot is in the game, they will get the best gear available to them every time, the best just needs to be brought closer to the average in terms of gear quality

[vernal ether]

I agree with this, HR for finding the best gear does not mesh well with HR for grinding leaderboard stats (especially pkills)

[vernal ether]

that is just a mindbogglingly stupid statement. not worth engaging with

[short heath]

Separating queues because you don't want to pvp is asinine.

[vernal ether]

there is a difference between not wanting to pvp and not wanting to grind playerkills for the player kill leaderboards

[terse pier]

I want to pvp, I don't want to get gear diff'd every time I do

[short heath]

You don't have to do that if you don't want to. Going into HR doesn't force you to grind pvp kills.

[paper abyss]

Elaborate how? I am one of the players that frequently goes in kitted to the max, I'm stating that my own gear needs to be nerfed for the game to be balanced. ** Frequency of gear dropping does not correlate with balance as the kitted players will acquire this gear regardless ** the actual discrepancy in stats and damage between low tier gear and high tier gear is where the issue lies.

[vernal ether]

pvp is fun, trying to loot HR for better gear while there are people going in specifically to hunt and kill every other player in order to progress their leaderboard stats, with no interest in loot whatsoever, is not.

[white mango]

How about we add a legendary/unique lantern that gives the light only to you and is completely black for other players +5 enchantments

[short heath]

Now you know how casuals and new players feel.

[vernal ether]

I know how casuals feel because I am a casual, I am just saying I agree with Kira's point

[vernal ether]

more gear dropped = more chances to roll good stats = more good gear sold on the market = more kitted players in lobbies. this is really not difficult to grasp I don't think. it's asinine to say that the frequency of gear dropping has no effect on how many kitted players are in your lobbies

[short heath]

Then why do you even run HR? Gear progression is meaningless if you aren't going to pvp with it, right?

Or do you not realize the circular logic there?

[paper abyss]

I'm not stating that it has no effect, it clearly does, but what I'm stating is that the best currently available will be easily acquired regardless if you are good, which the players in that gear are good.

[vernal ether]

I don't lol. but theoretically HR exists as a risk/reward thing where you pony up the money to have a chance at looting higher rarity stuff. that doesn't mesh well with sharing those lobbies with leaderboard geeks who are there specifically only to kill you to make their number go up

[vernal ether]

I don't have a problem with people having good gear and it being good, my problem is with how many of them are in my lobbies, which makes me avoid PvP altogether because of the frequency with which it's going to be a one-sided encounter

[paper abyss]

And I'm telling you that if the gear didn't make as much of an effect stat wise that issue wouldn't exist and you'd be encouraged to pvp. Unless you're shite kekw

[short heath]

Part of the risk/reward is fighting other players who are also seeking higher reward. Some people get their stashed gear drops from killing other people (and sometimes die and lose gear in the process), whereas other people get their gear from pveing.

[vernal ether]

could say that about removing gear stats from the game entirely too! why not do that :)

[paper abyss]

I'm not opposed I love mordhau lmao

[vernal ether]

then it is pointless to have this discussion with you as you are not interested in the game as designed

[paper abyss]

You're putting words in my mouth, you're just being an extremist, clearly I have interest in the game as designed as they have made these changes I enjoyed, and they reverted them to bring attention away from their dupe issues and rollback lol

The balance when they took str off heavy leather leggings during that update was my favorite of all time up to this point.

[vernal ether]

yes, but Kira's point is that leaderboard geeks are not there for a reward. they are not killing you for your gear. they are killing you to make their leaderboard stat go up by 1. they are not competing with you for the same things, and you are conflating normal DaD PvP with fighting people who are only there to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible and have no other motivations or considerations

[paper abyss]

inherently if gear made less of a difference you would not care nearly as much about pvp as you wouldn't be rolled as frequently, which would solve the issue you're primarily complaining about

[short heath]

That's just not true. Leaderboard chasers absolutely still loot dead bodies for gear upgrades and/or to get gear sets to stash for when they inevitably die.

[paper abyss]

Problem is most of your gear / loot sucks and it's easy to pass up for top % players lol

[short heath]

The difference is in that no-ante nerds would legitimately not even loot the bodies they made flop.

[paper abyss]

also killing people is arguably more efficient than looting yourself, and safer for hell runs

[vernal ether]

nah because I like better gear being noticeably better, which is the game as designed, so your solution is not the solution for me. I had no problem with getting ganked by kitted people in the playtests because it rarely happened because it was so difficult and expensive to put that kit together

@short heath ok well I'm just taking Kira's word for it and I agree that "run High Roller to get a chance at better loot" and "run High Roller to grind out leaderboard stats" are not motivations that mesh well together and it's why people don't play HR

[small furnace]

Leaderboard chasers also just keep killing regardless of if they have a full inventory or not. There are def times when they don't loot bodies as well based on their inventory.

I just want people who are looking to progress gear-wise and people who are looking to increase an arbitrary clout-number to be separate. They're two entirely different mindsets fundamentally.

I like pvp when it's about risk and reward, not because someone is trying to farm me for some silly clout number.

[vernal ether]

your average casual is not gonna touch HR when it's primarily populated by people jockeying on the leaderboards who spend 14 hours a day on the game

[worn lava]

make it so you can only bring blue and below in normal games and purple and up only in high roller some would complain but majority would enjoy the way fights play out more often and newer players would enjoy it the most

[storm pelican]

WE NEED TO ALLOW COIN PURSES IN NORMAL RUNS

[vernal ether]

bro wake up it's 2023

[terse pier]

my guy did you read the patch notes?

[paper abyss]

They have literally said that their intention is for it to be slowed down, for damage to not be as extreme. They are testing features for the game to decide what is "as design intends"

I'm willing to bet that we see stats return to what they nerfed them to recently and pvp will feel far more natural and pure. Who gives a shit if people are kitted if it doesn't feel as extreme, which it shouldn't. I don't see how this doesn't also solve your issue lol

[short heath]

That's a good thing, is it not? Keep the casuals in a more casual queue with less rewards, whereas the tryhards can be in their hardcore queue with better rewards.

[terse pier]

IMMEDIATELY I join a game with a chad in god rolled blues, guess this will be the game until next patch

[small furnace]

Remember when I said people would keep brainlessly crying regardless of this change... hahaha...

[paper abyss]

Yep same issue is going to persist lol blue vs purp and above gear is hardly different if it has bis rolls. The problem with current game status is that bis rolls are as crazy as they are

[oblique rover]

Thank you @vernal ether for actually playing the game and understanding what the real problem is.

[terse pier]

he do be spitting 🔥

[short heath]

This is why I said gear capping won't do shit for the problem the majority of people face. GBMM > gear capped lobbies.

[vernal ether]

no it isn't because casuals should get to loot purples and yellows too. you're locking a portion of the game behind getting put in lobbies with people who are literally only queueing to kill you 14 hours a day and you're... acting like you're arguing on behalf of casuals?

[terse pier]

📠 its a bandaid solution, GBMM is the real solution and the game is clearly moving in that direction from my perspective

[paper abyss]

hopefully this just brings attention that loot quality needs to be brought down as a whole

[rotund violet]

YOU CANT GET RID OF EMPTY COIN PURSES FROM YOUR STASH ANYMORE! BIGGEST RANGER NERF IN HISTORY

[short heath]

I've suggested so many possible solutions and it seems like the devs are slowly pulling their heads from their asses.

[vernal ether]

imagine buying a coin purse and it ever being empty again. couldn't be me

coin purses are how I display the money I'm putting into long-term storage

[paper abyss]

gear based matchmaking would be pretty dope not gonna lie

[terse pier]

man why can't I bring a coin purse into the dungeon with me anymore wtaf 😂

[short heath]

Why would a casual player be entitled to BIS and rare loot? Legitimately curious - the game is still supposed to be dog eat dog and hardcore. Casuals typically wouldn't get that far.

[paper abyss]

nerf the modifiers and introduce gbmm and gg we have balance / coin pouches were moved to unique which has an accidental feature blocked by their new no purps or above in LR

[vernal ether]

define "casual" because we seem to have two very different conceptions of who that is

[short heath]

It still needs to be a good experience for them, don't get me wrong.

[vernal ether]

but I mean the obvious answer is "because they bought the game, so they should get to experience it"

[paper abyss]

So I'm curious here, you want loot to be nerfed, but you also want casuals to be able to loot purps and yellows without high risk?

[worn lava]

its reiterating to keep the change

[terse pier]

this is literally one of the worst changes they've made to the game

[paper abyss]

gear based matchmaking would give casuals a chance to do everything 🙏 , and I don't mean this shitty form of GBMM we have

[vernal ether]

no, I want them to be able to loot purps and yellows without getting hunted down by people in full BIS kit who are only there to kill them because the devs incentivized them to do so, because otherwise they won't ever touch HR. most casuals who queue for HR will die regardless. but at least without getting queued with leaderboard geeks they won't be fuckin' scalped

[terse pier]

I think Linq is arguing for good loot to be attainable at all levels of play

[short heath]

So you think that everyone who buys a game should be able to play at the top tier of that game? You do realize that there are people who buy games and never finish them, right?

[paper abyss]

which it absolutely is currently

[oblique rover]

They need to take purples out of regular match loot pools, make purples a 5% drop on HR only, legendaries 1% drop on HR only, and make uniques a less than 1% drop from bosses only in HR. This fixes every problem.

[terse pier]

a casual player should be able to see a purple or legendary once in a while

[spark crest]

A casual will never archive anything

[paper abyss]

balance issues are not correlated to the color of the item you get, they are correlating to the modifiers lol

[vernal ether]

I think that Joe Schmoe who puts maybe 10 hours a week into the game tops should be able to queue for HR sometimes and maybe escape with a yellow that he either keeps as a trophy in his stash or loses eventually/quickly. and that the HR leaderboards are antithetical to that because they pit those people against players who spend all day, every day, just competing to kill as many of them as possible

[compact current]

they ruined bard

[vernal ether]

i dunno why you aren't getting this Onyx it seems pretty straightforward to me

[short heath]

Good

[worn lava]

it makes sense the hard mode keeps the good gear there

[oblique rover]

What's better rolling +1 all or rolling +1 all with +3 weapon damage + 5 physical damage and + 3 strength?

[paper abyss]

you're obviously missing my point, I'm stating that those modifiers to that level simply need to not exist.

[vernal ether]

I think targeted modifiers based on item would also solve that problem so you can't stack +3 damage on every single fucking slot

[oblique rover]

Why? There would be no point to the gear then, finding stuff that's good is part of the fun.

[paper abyss]

This is one of the things they addressed in that update that I'd like returned, now you're getting it 😛

[vernal ether]

then as I suspected you don't mean hotfix #16 by "last patch" and we have been talking past each other

[paper abyss]

good gear will still be great to find, but even in current play unless it's the best you can loot you drop that shit for sellables anyways

[oblique rover]

This could easily be said for stacking % mitigation as well, not just + flat damage.

[vernal ether]

or you're just focusing on the "+3" and not the "+damage". boots should not give you +damage, period

[paper abyss]

Ya i guess I wasn't considering hotfix's patches, and was referring to the actual patch update

[oblique rover]

That's because they increased the chance to find better loot by over a 1000% since the game has come out.

[vernal ether]

yep but good luck getting him to accept that that means anything

[oblique rover]

Do you guys not even understand how loot was in PT3 and 4?

[vernal ether]

I do, and I miss it dearly

[oblique rover]

It was like a less than 10% chance to find a purp in a big chest in HR. That is how rare that loot actually was.

[vernal ether]

I didn't play much between the last 2 wipes though so I can't speak to the balance there

but I knew things were going downhill when they changed greens to be super common

[teal plume]

🫵 🇳 🇪 🇷 🇫 🫵 🇨 🇱 🇪 🇷 🇮 🇨 🫵 🇳 🇪 🇽 🇹 🫵

[paper abyss]

loot being nerfed all around would help, yes, but unless they nerf the top gear at the same time it's still going to be an issue.

[oblique rover]

Only recently did they make it so that you are literally GUARENTEED to find blue or better in big chests, only recently did they make it so you are GUARENTEED to find 100-200 gold worth of loot in small chests in HR

[night grove]

i feel the armor cap is not going to be effective the way it is i feel it should work more on a point system like greens are 1 point blues 2 purples 3 ect and when you hit a certain number of points you would get put into a bracket so using the numbers above for an example a full purple armor set with jewlery and cape would be 40 points if you fall in the 30-40 range you would be put in the higher end of armors this allows players to mix and match kits and decide whats best to bring

[paper abyss]

Yes but the issue isn't that your finding a blue or 100-200g it's that the pieces you can find can be as insane as they currently are. If they weren't as strong it wouldn't matter.

[vernal ether]

I think a blanket nerf on stats is less than ideal because it reduces the degree to which rolls matter and gear can be different. I would rather see certain stats restricted based on slot, so that you can't stack +dmg across your entire kit like you currently do. that would allow you to get +3-5 damage on your weapon still but it wouldn't let you get the +30 you can currently get

[oblique rover]

That's a bandaid fix, doesn't matter how good the gear is.

[vernal ether]

it would also eliminate totally fucking useless modifiers like +spell capacity on morningstars

[paper abyss]

I'm not saying a blanket nerf is needed, they did nearly this exact change you're opting for. This is exactly what I've been saying this entire time

[vernal ether]

you are advocating for a blanket nerf to stat caps that is why I am arguing with you. do I need to quote your own posts back to you

[oblique rover]

You can literally go naked rogue into HR right now and come out with 2-3k gold very easily, or hell even Ruins can get you a fat 3k.

This is literally the whole problem.

[storm pelican]

let us bring in coin purses

[vernal ether]

at least they did fix people running around naked lol. that was a sensible balance change

[paper abyss]

I said loot quality needs to be brought down as a whole, which doesn't explicitly mean a blanket nerf. I've been stating this entire time that I'm referring to modifiers.

[oblique rover]

The modifiers don't matter when everyone who plays the game for 10 hours a day is a millionaire my guy.

[paper abyss]

Idek what you're trying to argue bud

[oblique rover]

You are dying to these people.

[vernal ether]

the add damage modifiers and weapon damage all need to be reduced for the pvp to not feel one sided with gear.
no you didn't. you said that the maximum modifiers needed to be reduced. that is not the same as restricting which slots can have which modifiers

[oblique rover]

The gear is irrelevant to the fact that they can make literally millions of gold within a week.

[vernal ether]

I agree with the latter, I wholeheartedly disagree with the former, it's the wrong way to balance it

[paper abyss]

Is restricting which slots can have + damage not reducing the maximum +damage you can have?

[vernal ether]

you didn't say maximum damage bro. read your own post. you're moving the goalposts and changing what you are arguing for

[paper abyss]

It's an example, I didn't explicitly say how they need to nerf it, but in their previous updates they had it like how you're asking for, which is what I've been stating they need to go back to.

[vernal ether]

I think almost anyone would agree that the maximum amount of +damage you can have needs to be reduced, but I don't agree with the method you put forward to accomplish that

[paper abyss]

The method I'm proposing they go back to is literally the method you stated with slot based allowed damage modifiers lmao

[vernal ether]

that isn't what you said, which is why I disagreed with you. if you're no longer advocating that then ok go with god 👍

[ember swan]

Please make it so a vendor takes gold bags for zero gold. With this current change I can't bring in a gold bag or get rid of them in any way

[paper abyss]

TL;DR return to the gear nerf plz ironmace

[lament moon]

Can we please stop the teaming shit on HR ?

[restive aurora]

lol i think its only gonna get worse now tht theres a gear req instead of lvl req

[restive aurora]

not a bad idea but certain heavier classes felt almost unplayable at higher tiers. u must play ranger rogue etc something that isnt clunky. every cleric i ever played with would complain its almost unplayable

[lament moon]

Like people will just team up and run you over like what im suposed to do ? people say you dont have to fight everyone well some people team up to fight you i just had to die to 2 clerics on HR solo like wtf ?

[paper abyss]

I think the move / action speeds could use adjustment with the gear changes for sure. I play everything my profile is tagged with, I absolutely agree that fighter / cleric felt extremely slow / clunky

[terse pier]

Why can rangers still exploit ruins with that god damn tower

[boreal axle]

plz make the purses a common item, u can't go with them into the normal dungeons so they jsut stack 😐

[terse pier]

worst patch

[summer fox]

I think that they should revert the item grade normals block and replace it with a gear point system. Where all the gear you have equipped or that is in your inventory should equate (with the party you are with) to a pool of points and put you in matchmaking based off of the gear you have, this would allow for more equal plays whilst geared, sure a little bit unfair with the naked warriors but still a bit more fair and just nicer since some people don't want to do HR that much and just want the PvP. Please look at this Ironmace devs and think about it and how this idea could be improved, I do think you guys are doing great work so please keep it up and roll good updates (and allow coin purses to go into normals if this does not take effect).

[hardy vector]

cannot wait till the cleric nerf

also having blues and under in norms wont stop shit, ppl still have max wpn dmg and phys dmg rolls on everything and still pubstomp

give certain rolls a score and if u go above a score then u cant do norms

[terse pier]

📠 this patch is just a huge L

the gear segregation + not being able to bring coin purses has got me 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫

[magic rapids]

Nerf the Move speed on Barb, Barb shouldn't be able to move faster than a spell caster.

[final elbow]

i disagree

[copper kestrel]

I think they should leave high roller free, now in order to play with purple equipment they force us to pay in HR and what if you run out of money to enter.

Also if you want to go with a purple luicky potion to a normal you cant because is higher type, in my opinion this patch is a mess

[terse pier]

that is a good point I didn't consider
I stand by my point, this patch is the worst the game has received

[forest notch]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/501776/longhigh-jump-skill-for-barbarians

Thoughts on this?

[terse quartz]

Can we like, let bard breath this is insane 7 patches back to pack shitting on bard

[orchid cypress]

Seperating out purple, unique, legendary from the lower tiers has really F***** matchmaking

[small furnace]

Ruins is a bad map, change my mind. It is ranger/rogue hell. I say this as a ranger main, even I don't enjoy the map, the map literally seems like it was design for another game in mind, even when you ARE at the top of the tower people quickly go out of render distance and you can't see them even though you can still shoot at them/be shot at by them.

[terse pier]

It's definitely the worst map, no doubt

[orchid cypress]

This is the worst update that has been made so far, gear restrictions obviously weren't thought through very well. You've got people not being able to bring in Coin pouches as those are now "Unique" Rofl.

[terse pier]

should they just revert the patch lmao

[small furnace]

As much as I dislike this patch, no they shouldn't. It is terrible when they make a patch only to revert it due to outrage less than a day later. EA Patch 1 was an awful example of this.

[terse pier]

they should at least revert the changes, I don't think anyone is in favour of a gear rollback

[small furnace]

Nah if they're gonna collect data then collect it. I don't want them doing this thing where they go back and forth constantly. Let's find out if it's good.

[terse pier]

Idk what data there is to collect, the state of the game is basically the same except people will be pub stomping in blues

[chrome plank]

I think some kind of matchmaking (maybe kills per life or something like that) would be better then just gear blocks they did rn

[midnight kraken]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/494870/make-empty-coin-purses-sellable upvote this guys, cant drop coin purses in normal games now due to the Rare items limitation (gold pouches are Unique)

[terse pier]

There's also a bug where your weapons don't show if you swap them while you have them out

fewer patches with some quality control pls

[short heath]

I've been saying this since PT3.

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/472659/matchmaking-balance-calculation-suggestion

[gleaming pivot]

Coin purses are technically unique items which won't allow you to bring them into normal dungeons, plz fix

[short heath]

This is intentional, as per sdf. They're limiting how profitable no-ante matches can be as an attempt to push more people into HR.

[gleaming pivot]

So we can't profit off of normal matches to afford the Ante to run HR?

[short heath]

You can still profit, they're just limiting how profitable it can be to just repeatedly run no-ante matches at no cost and little-to-no-risk. They want HR to be more populated.

[terse pier]

I really don't think coin purses were the issue there... it just feels like a QoL feature they've taken away

[short heath]

There isn't a sole issue, but a single coin purse was saving 5 slots of inventory space, which is huge for limiting profit per match.

[small furnace]

Wasn't HR fine this patch? Well, there were no leaderboards to be fair so I guess that could be why it was so populated.

[terse pier]

but you also have to invest and risk losing the purse, I think the trade off was fine

[short heath]

HR was underpopulated still.\

[small furnace]

Seriously? Huh, I played quite a few raids and never once had one that wasn't full this patch. Previously I did have that happen, I guess it's still region/time dependent.

[short heath]

It's not about a trade off... The devs WANT more people going to HR. This has nothing to do with a trade off for no-ante match players - it has to do with them intentionally trying to push more people into HR and this is a way to do that.

[terse pier]

coin purses have nothing to do with HR, its just an awful change all around

[small furnace]

Genuinely who cares. There's still a free unlimited gold glitch in the ruins called ungeared pickaxe rogue.

[short heath]

It has a ton to do with pushing no-ante scammers into HR.

[terse pier]

doubt, I rarely fill a single coin purse in a game where I'm in the last zone

[short heath]

Then you need to learn how to loot.

[small furnace]

You COULD get like 500g from an HR run on average in GC. Given that they are nerfing loot again, that might go down once more, ruins is still infinitely more profitable for rogue mining.

If they wanna push people into HR they gotta tackle the free moneyprinting machine that is gold mining in ruins.

[terse pier]

lol ok mr elitist, you can just get trinkets spawn instead of gold

[short heath]

🤣

[small furnace]

@short heath Moving gold mining to HR GC and Crypts would probably be good, what do you think?

I think it has no place in ruins, too easy with no risk.

[short heath]

Agreed.

[terse pier]

😂

bro I can press E on chest its very easy, coin purses being limited to HR is just shit all round, feels bad, feels like they put hardly any thought into the implementation

[small furnace]

I mean he is spitting facts. You were probably missing out on an extra 50-100g each run if you couldn't fill a purse.

[gleaming pivot]

agreed

[terse pier]

it's really reductive to think every game is like that, you can go for a whole game without seeing a gold coin drop. Then let's consider how redundant silver coins are as well. This game is weird rn

[small furnace]

I mean I end up with like 6 or 7 coin drops most runs. I never brought in purses but that's not cause they aren't effective. Just cause I didn't care about minmaxing every aspect of the game.

If you bring in a purse you are definitely guaranteeing yourself some extra monaayy with effective looting.

[terse pier]

Don't get me wrong I know it's a way to get a lot of extra income if you do happen to find lots of lose gold, which is why I would previously bring 1 into most games, but I don't think it's as huge a deal as you guys do

[hardy vector]

gut ranger (atleast nerf their ms)

gut cleric too

[abstract swallow]

I love how they've gotten every ranger nerf they've ever asked for and people still seethe about the class despite it underperforming in every leaderboard since EA launched

[daring trail]

HR was significantly better. I always got into a full lobby, never sat the entire 5 min timer.

With a loot nerf, and leaderboards coming out. definitely less worth, I wont run HR when the people who play the game as a job are running around hunting people down.

This patch isnt too bad so far, just some very questionable changes though. The gold coin purse thing being on purpose is sad, but not the biggest deal.

[short heath]

True. Cope and seethe.

[fathom bolt]

they gave ranger a slap on the wrist

meanwhile rogue got taken out behind the shed

[abstract swallow]

"they gave ranger a slap on the wrist"
-warlock player, after Ranger's 9th consecutive nerf

[fathom bolt]

bros really going for the quantity over quality of nerfs arguement

ive played warlock since it had 4 spells, i dont know what point youre trying to make there

[real fjord]

PLEASE MAKE THE CRYSTAL SWORD USABLE, AT LEAST 19 DMG\

[short heath]

If I encountered no other teams, I'd be coming out with ~40 raw gold on average, plus the full inv of collectibles. Encountering 1+ teams and surviving, I saw ~180 raw gold average and took other people's pouches to fill. In no-ante runs, mind you. 180 RAW gold for 4 slots. And ~1/5 inventory would end up being heals/consumables, the rest split between good gear drops and collectibles. My no-ante runs would average ~400g per, and my best no-ante run last hotfix was 976g before selling gear drops. Crypts, btw.

[short heath]

If you're even picking up silver coins, you're looting terribly. Same with not being conscious enough to drop cracked/lower quality collectibles for better quality ones as you find them.

[fathom bolt]

i pick them up until i find something to replace them

[hazy sinew]

I'm not able to play geared with my friend anymore since ruins doesn't have a highroller..

[short heath]

Find a third bröther

[fathom bolt]

you cant queue ruins at all?

[short heath]

HR is calling you bröther

[hot hemlock]

Ruins counts as a "normal" map so its gear locked to Blue and below

[hazy sinew]

I can but you can't go geared

[hazy sinew]

I just don't like crypts. It's just a bunch of buffballs

[short heath]

They just hit Bard with another nerf. Give her a go, lad.

[terse pier]

I know how to play the game, always drop grey/white loot when your inv is full, silver coins are trash (more reason for them to be removed), it still doesn't account for the fact that you're not going to get a full coin purse every game

[short heath]

It's saving inventory space. You don't understand that.

[hazy sinew]

yippee

[terse pier]

I have demonstrated in multiple messages that I do <50gp in one slot is not enough of a balance concern to remove the QoL of having a coin purse

[short heath]

You can still get that QOL if you run HR - which is my point. They are doing multiple things to see what will push people into HR. This is one of those things, because it limits the potential gains from every no-ante run you do.

[terse pier]

but it just doesn't make sense - why am I only able to bring something as mundane as a coin purse into the endgame dungeon?

[short heath]

I've said this like 7 times at this point - because it is a way for the devs to limit your potential gain in a no-ante run. The difference in what you can potentially get from a no-ante run as compared to an HR run is what they're testing in so far as to how the playerbase will react. Will a ~70g (average maybe around 40g) reduction in potential gains from no-ante runs push people into HR?

[terse pier]

regardless, it is a huge downgrade

[short heath]

Literally this is the point. You see it as a downgrade to no-ante runs. Are you more apt to take HR runs instead to gain that QOL and potential gains back?

[terse pier]

it isn't the point - the player experience for the majority of players just got worse

[short heath]

This is like talking to a wall.

[terse pier]

No U

[short heath]

The devs are going to test their theories how they see fit. You don't like it, hit the curb or play HR.

[terse pier]

Bro you're acting like no-ante runs are the bane of the game balance atm, and certainly the devs can test whatever they like, and the playerbase, which I am part of, are free to express their concerns on the direction of the game. Regardless of balance, removing that QoL feature has regressed the game in many people's eyes from a design standpoint

[short heath]

It legitimately is one of the biggest problems the game currently has right now, actually, and is exactly why they're tackling no-ante concerns more than they are HR concerns.

[terse pier]

when you say no-ante do you mean just playing the normal queue? Or going in naked?

[short heath]

No-ante is any queue that isn't HR.

[terse pier]

Ok I didn't comprehend the point you were making then, that is a problem sure, pub stomps absorbing all the loot in a normal map. But you know what would fix that? Gbmm ensuring their are players capable of at least contesting the pub stompers in purples. This patch is just riddled with half measures.

They should stop releasing a patch every 2 weeks and actually have some quality control

[short heath]

I've been saying GBMM since PT3 and have a suggestion on the forum about it with over 800 votes.

[terse pier]

yaya I've updooted it, I still disagree abt the coin purse thing - it is only a symptom of the larger issue

[hybrid heath]

Portal Spawns should show on minimap (when they spawn) relying on ONE audio queue for vital information is not a cash money type of difficulty and letting players not in audio queue to be able to see where the spawns are would promote pvp

[vapid surge]

New class: Monk ??

[terse pier]

After Paladin that would go crazy

[terse pier]

This a interesting idea, accessibility features ftw

[still sky]

I am assuming Rapiers will get a nerf soon, how can you mess them up so bad.? Good god. Also, any time frame on an anti-cheat ?

[rare bluff]

@dawn grotto Nightmare skelly skin? 🤔

[glacial sphinx]

+10 Armor -10 Magic Armor would be cool

[rare bluff]

how much should it cost tho?

[glacial sphinx]

some leaderboard placing maybe? top 500 of your class or w/e, something not too crazy not too easy

[rare bluff]

10 bluestone might also be good if they wanna stick close too the skelly skin

[hybrid heath]

wow, yeah. I didn't even think of the accessibility aspect. I think pure audio queue stuff especially if its just one queue is just lame type of difficulty and barely a "skill" to express.

[cold lintel]

Blue should be interchangeable for match making perspectives. Or make it so you can only take a certain number of blue items into normal matches.
Why make it so you can only run green and below in normal (goblin cave, ruins, and crypts??)
Ruins is out of play now since you can't run anything higher than green.....
Running duo HR Crypts is aids because you have GODLY kitted people chase you down to the ends of the earth.

There should still be lobbies in normal matches for more "geared" players.

[lunar cedar]

Revert the gold bags to normal items, or at least let us sell them for 1 or 0. Right now the only way to get rid of gold bags is by dropping them in high roller because they are unique and we cannot bring uniques in normal lobbies.

[ionic mist]

Revert the gold bags to normal items, or at least let us sell them for 1 or 0. Right now the only way to get rid of gold bags is by dropping them in high roller because they are unique and we cannot bring uniques in normal lobbies.

[brave vale]

new speedrun: fill your entire stash with empty gold pouches then one on your character. Now you literally can't play the game.

[ionic mist]

Revert the gold bags to normal items, or at least let us sell them for 1 or 0. Right now the only way to get rid of gold bags is by dropping them in high roller because they are unique and we cannot bring uniques in normal lobbies. and LUCK POtions

[brave vale]

They plan on allowing you to vendor them in the next hotfix

[craggy kayak]

just trade all ur empty pouches to a character and delete them... kappa

[brave vale]

How if you can't afford trade fee and inventory is completely full of empty?

[storm pelican]

Allow gold coin purses

[jovial swan]

I'm gonna be real, they should just straight up make Blow of Corruption and Judgement DoT moves. Moves with instant casting and high damage output do not need to be instant damage, too.

[green lagoon]

could use gold to upgrade traders, for bigger and better stock

[jovial swan]

I'm just gonna list the many, many problems that should have been fixed ages ago.

[thorny grove]

They should allow you to drag around spells/songs in the memory priority bar. its annoying to have to drag your entire selection of spells/songs out just to switch up the order of the priority... upvote anyone?

[supple steppe]

Vulgun is still typing? I’m excited to see this tbh

[thorny grove]

i agree, i do not like all the instant burst damage in this game. i enjoy longer fights

tho on low gear fights do last longer usually than higher geared fights

[jovial swan]

[General]
-Magical healing should be capped.
-Shrine interaction speeds should be universal.
-Mining interaction speeds should be universal at base.
-Items should be swappable between spaces in your inventory stash or regular stash.
-Items should be able to be orientated.
-Magic Barrier potions should be added into the game. Works as you'd expect, can't be stacked with Physical Barrier Potions.

[Weapons]
-Felling Axe should have a higher recovery time on hit or be completely reworked
-Crossbow and Hand Crossbow should not have armor penetration
-Bows should have lower weapon damage and require charge for higher damage output
-Arrows and Bolts should have some weapon damage with rarities up to "Rare"
-Drums should have significantly lower weapon damage
-Kris Dagger needs a new animation
-Battle Axe needs a new series of animations
-Hatchet and Horseman's Axe should be reverted to their original EA speeds
-Riposte on the Longsword should deal 130% damage, NOT 187.5%!
-Bear Traps should only be stackable by 1

[Warlock]
-Blow of Corruption should be a damage over time ability

[Cleric]
-Judgement should be a damage over time ability
-Holy Strike should be a damage over time ability

[Fighter]
-Fighter should have a different mastery perk to equip ranged weapons, which reduces their damage by 30%

[Ranger]
-Ranger should have a reduced strength stat of 6.

[Rogue]
-Hide should reduce damage resistance by 20%.
-Hide should have an increased duration of 30 seconds.
-Hide Mastery should have a reduced bonus of 30 seconds.

[Barbarian]
-Potion Chugger should not affect Invisibility Potions.

[Crafting]
-Troll Pelt should be removed as a requirement to make the Gold Coin Bag. Not everyone can/wants to kill the Troll and waste time trying to get a 3% chance of getting an item.

Bard already got railed this patch, so I didn't really include them, but if I did want to rub salt on the wound:

[Bard]
-Music now has a cooldown of 60 seconds per ally it is applied to, up to a maximum cooldown of 120 seconds.

[supple steppe]

https://tenor.com/view/who-let-bro-cook-who-who-let-bro-cook-dont-let-him-cook-again-gif-13506486571730006439

[tiny plume]

get rid of gear based matchmaking ew

[teal plume]

🫵 🇳 🇪 🇷 🇫 🫵 🇨 🇱 🇪 🇷 🇮 🇨 🫵 🇳 🇪 🇽 🇹 🫵

[winter bison]

honestly this game got me wanting to quit after dying to a way too fast last circle again.. its like 10-15 seconds long that such bs....

[small furnace]

Vulgun's suggestion essentially equates to: Anything that is currently fun in the game should no longer be fun.

[jovial swan]

Anything "unfun" should be gone.

[small furnace]

You wanna nerf the barbarian felling axe, like lmao.

[winter bison]

I think clerics heals should be 3/3 not 4/4. thats the only change I think it really needs..

[jovial swan]

Rework it. Not nerf it completely.

[dire granite]

Nobody plays bard - kill the bard three patches in a row. Bard doesn't buff teammates and not buffing themselves as well.
9 move speedbonus....
8% action speed bonus...
Those are not even noticeable by the eye. Shield give you 1% of physical damage reduction if you already have 17%, for what reason this? Or like 4% if you have 13%, so this considered a buff to reduce from 1 to 4 damage from 100 points of damage.
Allegro and accelerando lasts so fast you not playing game you playing recast it forever, still almost no effect.

In late patches bard was trampled to dust. bard have the least players in trade, the least valuable items are for bards.
I was playing for bard almost from the beginning of EA, now I won't, dont see any sense.
Whole hotfix pointed to nerf bards which "outperforms", maybe in statistics there was BarBs? If the point of patch was to make last drops of people stop playing bards I think mission accomplished.

Yeah, Im disappointed and whining, now probably is time to get 70% pdr fighter with endless sprint and second wind, or +25 weapon damage rogue 108% move speed with weapon in hands cause those are fine. Bard was the problem.

[winter bison]

make it, 2/2 for the large heal and 3/3 for the small heal. but they regen faster while sitting. I think thats a good fix.. cant heal spam your 85% dr fighter

I mostly want another 10 seconds added to the game when your screen gets darker before you die it gives no time and last circle way too short on time already

[vivid summit]

Do rogues still run hide? Most of the rogues I play against and myself tend to avoid hide for smoke pot and a damage skill.

[winter bison]

rogues are just bad.. lol I think they needs a buff but not the insta kill like it used to be

[vivid summit]

Have you tried the kind of hit and run playstyle?

[winter bison]

ranger just eats food, probably hits you on the way out. cleric self heals barb you can maybe outplay if he has a slow axe. fighter has bow on swap, bard has xbow.. pretty much in every senario you dont get away for free unless they really bad

[vivid summit]

Your MS is incredibly good and with smoke pot to obscure vision there are a lot of plays you can make. No class has 100% easy matchups but I've beaten rangers, fighters,clerics, and bards with this you just have to be careful and clever. Soften with lots of hand crossy shots (I sometimes even run add mag and poisoned weapon cause its fucking funny) and close in during long animations or when they fuck up positioning. Learning to dodge arrows is definitely a big deal and baiting crossbow shots helps a lot too

[old zenith]

Posted in the wrong channel before lol, but how do all of you feel about merging the perks on rogue, pickpocket, trap detection and lockpicking into one perk called thief?

[vivid summit]

I mean most of the perks could be merged with another perk at this point. Hide mastery and Shadow runner for example.

[winter bison]

pickpocket and lockpicking maybe a good idea, but the others are way too much to have all those...

[old zenith]

They do suffer from too many perks that do t do too much and they were needed extremely hard

[dire granite]

The funny thing is that no one plays as Bard and there will never be massive complaints in the chat about the fact that the bard was very much nerfed and it will take about 2-4 months for the developers to understand from statistics that no one plays as bard and bards needs to be buffed.

[old zenith]

But by itself it almost useless by tacking it on the other it would make a decent perk none of it being broken

[vivid summit]

The major issue with the direction they've taken bard is that bard was only really fun because you could run around doing jack of all trade shit. If they nerfed the values of all the effects and focused on making those effects scale off of stats better instead of making bard knowledge based then the class would still be fun even if it was weak

Creep + Stealth, Hidden pockets + Pickpocket, Lockpick+Trap detection, Hide mastery + Shadow runner. The rest are probably fine

[gloomy anchor]

NO WAY OF GETTING RID OF COIN BAGS??? UNLES U BRING EM INTO HIGH ROLLER AND DROP THEM

[winter bison]

if they ganna keep rogue this weak atlease give them more base hp hitting like a noodle and always 1 shot is a bit too much

[old zenith]

This could work too

[dire granite]

After last patch people already given up to play bard around 100 people in trades where half of those are other classes trying to sell bards gear for 50g.

Now class is deleted as once rogues was.
I can give 9 move speed and 8% action speed to myself 😁 for what purpose? Ill better go play rogue with 30 base agility.
There one buff left to buff teammates - +3 all. How that is bard while they're not buffing...

[solar radish]

Just a few notes on your suggestions;
-"Crossbow and Hand Crossbow should not have armor penetration." Crossbows are notorious for being able to go through armor, so the armor pen makes sense.
-"Judgement should be a damage over time ability. Holy Strike should be a damage over time ability" I kinda agree with blow of corruption. It needs to be reduced or made damage over time. However, Holy strike and judgement should definitely be all one hit just based on the ability it is. If it was named something else or did something different, I would agree with you. But they make sense as flat damage rather than damage over time.
-"Drums should have significantly lower weapon damage" Bard is already railed as it is. They need everything they can get.
-"Ranger should have a reduced strength stat of 6" this is delving into the realm of real life, but bows are really hard to pull back. I have several longbows in my home, and you 100% need a lot of strength to pull those strings back.
Something I would like to add to this in light of the recent event is, I would like to see this GBMM refined a little. For example, 3 different tiers of lobbies; grey to white, green to blue, amd purple to legendary. Another way to go about it (which would be a lot harder to implement I think) would be to add a gear score to everything. Like, a green falchion with +2 true physical damage would be worth more than a blue falchion with +1.2% interaction speed and 2.4% pdr. OR tag all gear sold through the trader and make a trade license lobby and a non trader lobby, so people can't spend 3 hours building the absolute perfect BIS god set and just roll all the people out there trying to get the first bit of gold they can. (or bring back the pre 15 lobbies, which is the same thing essentially)

[vivid summit]

I would REALLY rather they move away from gear rarity based gating and into something better in general. Gear gating is the most heavy handed approach and there are just easier ways to get better results

[chilly estuary]

jbard nerfs ranger buffs.... why

[vivid summit]

Ranger... buffs? Did we read the same patch notes?

[chilly estuary]

sorry sensei i misread

[solar radish]

I fell pretty stronmgly about it right now because I just don't see the other option for stopping people from literally ruining the game for new players. Today, I played 14 games. 11 of them, I had someone in full blue BIS either spawn rush me (happened 5 times) or just sit in a room and wait to hear someone, kills them and leaves all the loot they had. I would not care about these chads that much if they weren't playing fortnite in Dark and Darker. The whole purpose of the game is to loot and extract. They only kill and extract. It makes playing pointless because I know that 8 of my 10 games, I'm going to be spawn rushed or hunted down for 10 minutes by a guy who just wants to see their name pop up in the top right corner

[vivid summit]

I think if code was set up to grade stats per class based on live data OR a database model controlled by devs then it would be easy to space out geared vs moderately geared, vs ungeared players any number of ways. The issue with gating is that making smaller and smaller pools means queue times go up AND if the gating isn't tiny you end up with people minmaxing anyway

[cold lintel]

I don't mind the gear based match making, but each piece of gear should have a gear rating ie: 1 point for grey, 2 points for white, 3 points for blue, etc helm, gloves, boots; 2 points for grey, 3 points for white pants, etc: 3 points for grey, 4 points for white top, etc; so on and so forth...
I Think that way of match making would make the game more balanced and fun to play. As you will still have the opportunities to have "come ups" on gear throughout the run

[eager creek]

I was hoping for that also, but I ain't complaining, my BIS gear is almost all blues. The blue rarity is actually quite op.

[vivid summit]

This would get abused to hell. Often times 1-2 pieces of BiS are more powerful than entire kits of greens/blues with shit rolls

If you want to properly control player flow you have to look at stats not rarity

[cold lintel]

But it limits and you can still get outplayed

[eager creek]

I mean, it's more abused now. Cobalt items and the new wolf items are blue and extremely overstated.

[vivid summit]

It limits more poorly than straight rarity gating but still has all the same problems? Why not just cut the middleman and look at stats per class in order to more accurately paint a picture of how powerful someone is?

[eager creek]

Because that's a dev nightmare lol.

[steep sparrow]

Why add another need for stash which was already full in form of storing my purple set for a norm run, but not add anything about stash itself? Please let's think about stash situation, this tetris trying to store everything takes too much time )).

[eager creek]

Had to buy a second account just to circumvent it ^^

[vivid summit]

Having done dev work for a lot of mods, it really isn't

Its just a database or if you wanna actually do some work you could write a fancy algorithm that pulls fresh info from matches. Otherwise its like 4 hours of work to set up the database and then less than a week to actually adjust the matchmaking code in a way thats going to give you more control. I will be completely honest and say I've never done that particular code myself but MMR code functions incredibly similarly and can easily be adjusted for this purpose and tons of free examples of how that works already exist so a decent coder should have no problem with getting that working.

[eager creek]

It sounds easy but the servers have so many issues, we can't even bring in bags lol.

[vivid summit]

Thats intentional? Bags are unique grade?

[drowsy grotto]

make it so there's a small movement penalty from being hit that lasts for like 30 seconds and after hitting a player it resets your own
It'd stop people from strictly just running away from fights

[jovial swan]

They should 100% add a "I died to a bug" option that can only be used once every 48 hours.

[drowsy grotto]

I am one hit and I have no healing, I guess I died to a bug.

[teal arch]

[Ranger]
-Ranger should have a reduced strength stat of 6.

this is it

[frigid berry]

I think goblin merchant should be made a bit cheaper and have better odds

[cobalt root]

^^^^

goblin merchant is useless considering there's a player market where you can get greens and some blues for 50g
and the goblin merchant odds are like 50% grey, 20% white, 30% green or better (just roughly from what I've noticed when buying from him)

[eager creek]

It was only useful in pre 15 lobbies when you couldn't trade.

[forest storm]

Even if we don't keep the restrictions for bringing purses into normal raids they need to make a less cumbersome method for disposing empty ones. Like give treasurer a special refund for them or something.

[cobalt root]

there should just be an item disposal window in the stash window - drag any unwanted item there to discard it
almost every game with inventories has a garbin bin type function

[jovial swan]

They need to do something about Market or else it'll remain terrible for the foreseeable future.

Ever since the introduction of Gold Ingots, it's been horrible.

I think I know of an idea that'd solve this issue very handily, which is:

[Gold Ore]

Gold Ore can now spawn in up to 4 different chunks in the Goblin Caves where normally there would be Cobalt or Rubysilver.

This way the market value of Gold Ore can be significantly reduced, if not nixed altogether.

[eager creek]

And then juicers will ruin the caves. F that. Gold ore should be high roller exclusive.

[small furnace]

Goblin Merchant is useless because you can just go into the dungeon and find a blue in like the 2nd chest you open.

Also purples have no value due to the matchmaking change so the chance of getting a purple is actually a downgrade.

Definitely needs his prices decreased.

[dire granite]

just used timer for buffs on base bards
Its duration in description 120 second
but it goes for 1:20 minutes
1:20 minutes not equal 120 seconds it is 80 seconds...

[dire granite]

bards invisibility doesn't scale from resoursfoulness - its a BUG
still scales from will

[soft nebula]

sorry, i typically come in here chill but WHY DO BARBS GET TO GET SO FAST? kitted out the wazoo i get 3 shot by francescas weapons away and everything. theyre potential is way too insane right now and it feels like no matter what i do if i go against a geared barb the only times i can beat them is by playing barb

my friend was talking to me about some potential stat changes and i kind of like them, with the persuasion attribute, you can put base and max amounts per character, and place a very low amount on barb to make them almost useless with buffball. afterwards make the barb base speed lower, having a barb catch up to any squishy character is simply NOT ok, however if this happens, dont nerf damage, after the speed nerf i feel as though the barb would be perfect.

[dire granite]

trying to squeeze anything from a bard.
Unplayable on every level.

[jovial swan]

Bruh, Market needs to be completely reworked at this point. No more "selling items you don't own".

[bleak dagger]

the whole point of barb is being able to catch up on people...

[soft nebula]

no, its not? its intention is doing massive damage not being fast

how could you actually say that a characters intention is to be FASTER than everyone while also doing INSANE 1-2 tap potential

[alpine plover]

Yeah no, Barb is definitely the Tank/Heavy hitter, they should not be faster than a rouge/ranger

[bleak dagger]

honestly sounds like rogue issues

[chilly estuary]

YALL SPILLED THE JUICE XD NO MORE JUICERS IN THE DUNGEON

[chilly estuary]

yo did they buff archers not rangers but the mobs cause i swear they feel impossible to dodge like they have extreme tracking now

[jovial swan]

I hope next patch hard nerfs the bows. They're way too powerful.

I'm just saying, reducing all Bow/Crossbow damage by half and then giving arrows/bolts projectile damage would be the play.

Something along the lines of:
Survival Bow - Weapon Damage: 16-24 down to 10-18
Recurve Bow - Weapon Damage: 27-35 down to 15-23
Long Bow - Weapon Damage: 33-48 down to 22-34
Crossbow - Weapon Damage: 40-55 down to 25-40, with no armor penetration
Windlass Crossbow - Weapon Damage: 47-67 down to 27-47, with 40% armor penetration

The numbers are taking all of the rarities into account, so adjust accordingly. After that, I'd just do the arrow damage like this:
Arrows - Projectile Damage: 1-4 (up to Rare rarity)
Bolts - Projectile Damage: 1-4 (up to Rare rarity)

[real trellis]

I've been having problems with stuttering/rubber-banding causing me to end up back in the path of an arrow I should've dodged. I don't think the mobs themselves have become more accurate.

[chilly estuary]

mabey

[real trellis]

Honestly I wish IM would just remove the party speed-related buffs from Bard. That'd solve buffballing pretty damn well, and then they could afford to buff some of Bard's other songs.

I'd like it if Bard's buffs (self AND party) were weaker but lasted longer, too. Having to re-up your buffs every 10s/2 minutes is so annoying especially in solos

(Yes I know that you don't really re-up party buffs mid-fight but I'm just saying)

Honestly I think the party and self buffs are so weak rn that they could just bump out the timers by 1.5x and it'd be fine

[soft nebula]

this is cool and i like where your going, but the damage alone isnt the full issue, as well as it might be too intense, the survival bow is VERY gear based rn, those nerfs will murder it, recurve could use a slightly longer draw time to not make it decent damage+spammable, and longbow could use a nerf in dmg as well as a FULL removal of slow, however the dmg nerf being about 15% rather than your massive 33% to all bow nerf. i think the crossbow nerfs are also way too intense but the armor penetration is quite insane, and maybe they can change enchants on longrange weapons to have a lesser cap in wpn dmg.

[real trellis]

Just do what I did lmfao, blockity

[small furnace]

Probably will, don't need to be seeing that.

[real trellis]

It's hardly worse than what Mr. Beanz and the other suggest trolls used to get up to. Well, at least they were kinda funny sometimes.

[terse pier]

Idk if Vulgun is actually a troll, they've been posting consistently in here for a while. They seem to put effort into their posts even if they're often ridiculously drastic changes?

[soft nebula]

some people think balances have to be even 25% of something or more, when in reality even a 5% change in a character is enough to make or break the character

[terse pier]

lmao that is a funny one

I think I see where they're coming from? Probably one of the people who want full Mordhau style directional inputs

(I am not one of those people, D&D preconfigured swings are cool)

I think Longsword being the only weapon with a riposte is questionable

[real trellis]

I don't want rogues getting a parrying dagger ever

[small furnace]

Buckler should have a riposte because you'd generally parry with a buckler due to it's small and manueverable size.

Though game-wise this is way too much work.

[terse pier]

Nah, it'd be cool. I agree a parry on the buckler would also be interesting

[real trellis]

shields kinda have a riposte if you're a fighter and you take shield master + counterattack

[terse pier]

yeye that's definitely true, but I still dislike that riposte is a fighter (and warlock for longsword) exclusive mechanic

[real trellis]

though longsword benefits from these perks more

[terse pier]

e.g. maybe rapier could have a riposte and make it a 2 hand weapon (like needing the other hand free for balance etc)

[small furnace]

Rogue with a parrying dagger, keeping in fashion with the radical rogue balance changes when the rogue lands a parry he takes 50 damage and drops all his health potions.

[real trellis]

I don't think rangers should get access to blocking weapons other than the spear or any kind of riposte honestly

[small furnace]

Rangers generally have weak melee yes, that is their weakness.

[terse pier]

I think melee ranger should be more viable and bow ranger should less potent

[real trellis]

You'd have to really lower bow ranger down to sell me on that one

[terse pier]

bow & arrows are just cracked in this game even without triple shot, just being able to consistently do long range damage is unique to them

[small furnace]

It might be the only way to do it honestly given how many people want to gut the only thing ranger is good at. Might be good to just rework the character into something else entirely.

[terse pier]

triple shot now only fires 2 arrows on longbow which is a good change imo, but I still find the ability problematic. Burst damage is too prevalent

[real trellis]

On other classes, ranged weapons are kind of an afterthought to be used in niche situations or as a poking tool, on ranger they're incredibly potent due to all their bow-related perks and skills

Like yeah a fighter with a crossbow is gonna do a ton of damage if they nail you with it but if they miss they either gotta slow down and reload or swap to melee

[terse pier]

☝🏻 100%
am I the only one who thinks it's BS the rogue needs a whole perk to use the hand crossbow now (especially after the nerfs they got)

[small furnace]

I mean yeah that's cause ranger is the only class with actual ranged weapons.

Crossbow on other classes is just an 'extra' if they want to be ranged too.

The only other REAL ranged classes are the casters and god knows they're incredibly good too.

[terse pier]

The casters are good, but depending on what room you're fighting in, I still find Ranger to be too dominant since they can carry so many arrows and also a lot of the spells are long range slow skillshots compared to the speed of arrows

[real trellis]

I think the perk should give some kind of bonus like ranger's spear perk does, or it should be merged with another perk

[terse pier]

yeah rogues 100% have too many little piddly perks

[real trellis]

Honestly I feel like half of Rogue's perks need to be mashed together to make them even a little bit worth taking over the current meta.

[small furnace]

It's just cause ranger is easier. That's the hill I'll die on I'll keep saying it.

If ranger wasn't an easy class doubt any of you would care even if they were capable of the same stuff they are now.

Wizard and Warlock are just harder classes cause of the amount you have to put in to make them work.

And by "amount" just so you know I mean effort, not gear.

[real trellis]

Like would it break the game to mash up pickpocket and lockpicking's effects and call it "Grand Larceny" or something

[terse pier]

Yeah I get you, I definitely agree they're an easier class especially considering the 3 charges of healing they get baseline (if you take that)

[terse pier]

I've been a propnent for something like this for a while, it's a good idea
Atm lockpicking feels like a waste because bard can literally play music to open every single chest for free

I think something like reducing the rate of fire for rangers, making it so the arrows are a real skillshot that you can't spam, so you have to place your shots, perhaps with a damage buff to counteract the reduced rate of fire

[real trellis]

How about combining back attack with shadowrunner? I think that'd make the perk pretty appealing to people who like the ambush style

[terse pier]

Not a bad idea, I think we can agree that there are too many relatively inconsequential perks on rogue atm

[indigo egret]

Maybe combine trap mastery a
With lockpick

[small furnace]

The healing is not even a problem part of their kit, but it definitely helps the base kitted people have a better time.

The problem is how easy it is to just knock arrows at someone until they die. That interaction between two players if both of them are of average or low skill level the ranger is usually going to win because you aim and shoot and the other person isn't dodging.

If both players are skilled then it becomes a little more nuanced, can the person juke you enough to get into melee range? If they do you're probably not going to win that fight.

Meanwhile with a wizard if they have good spell rotations and management there's pretty well nothing you can do. They'll haste-invis to give you the slip, reposition themselves, throw a zap here, fireball there... might even have slow to prevent you from kiting them.

Though I freely admit that the wizard takes a lot more skill to pilot, and because people don't see it very often they usually run into a guy that stands still zapping them and dying they will just see it as one ranged class being way more OP than the other.

[real trellis]

I don't like the idea of giving bows more damage than they already have, but what if instead draw strength increased over time with weaker shots if they spam but full strength shots if they wait a bit

[terse pier]

yeah something like this would be interesting

[real trellis]

like 20% less damage if you fire as soon as possible, and have the penalty reduce by 5% each .5s held or something

[terse pier]

Agreed, sometimes it feels like you can't do anything against a skilled wizard player

[real trellis]

I watched a video of a guy who put together a move speed set on a wizard and it was unreal

[terse pier]

Yeah, Wizard is cracked atm, Wizard + Barbs have been ruining my ruins runs haha

[real trellis]

Rogues couldn't catch him and he was just rolling around killing people with impunity even though he had dog aim with fireballs

[small furnace]

Realistically I don't think anyone will be happy unless they gut ranger. Which is why I think it should just be reworked.

It won't matter how low the damage goes, people will always be upset because it's a ranged character in a mostly melee game that's pretty easy to play, if they're doing well enough and they die to it... it's always gonna feel bad to them.

Just rework the character, probably when they get their nature magic in the future.

[terse pier]

I do really like the idea of ranger needing to charge up their shots to get the full damage, I think that would be a step in the right direction in the game as-is

[void cargo]

agred with charged shots

[real trellis]

The biggest issue for me with rangers is the hitslow, they didn't nerf that nearly enough. Also, when you do catch up to them, they have a pretty good melee selection, and you're basically just dealing with a rogue at that point, minus the extra bleeds/poison

[terse pier]

Yeah, and on top of that they can spec into slowin you even more

[real trellis]

nobody runs legshot except to troll

[terse pier]

"can't catch me can't catch me"

[small furnace]

Their melee selection isn't that good except for spears, and they don't have any way to make those melees deal enough damage to keep up with any other melee class in the game.

The hitslow is not something that should go away entirely, they need it in order to kite and have a chance at winning. It feels like the nerfs people suggest they just want rangers to be helpless to someone running at them unless they land 3 headshots and kill them before they get to them.

[real trellis]

the other perks are way too good

[real trellis]

He doesn't know about the short king sword meta rn

[terse pier]

compared to the rogue perks for example, 100%
@small furnace hit slow should be nerfed a bit, it's very frustrating

[small furnace]

There is no short sword meta for rangers I assure you. Ranger is my main and we prefer to stick to spears or the classic arming sword + hand crossbow combo.

[terse pier]

yeah after the dagger nerfs the short swords are goated at least on Rogue

[real trellis]

Homie you lack the critical information

[small furnace]

Are you talking about flat damage stacking on short swords?

[real trellis]

I'm talking about that 9% move speed penalty when swinging

That's better than any other weapon in the game minus the torch

[small furnace]

Yes it's good for kiting, but spear and arming sword are both BIS options for a reason.

Arming sword + crossbow allows you to have 2 items in slot that both can give their own gear stat bonuses. PLUS the hand crossbow benefits from all +physical damage modifiers you have including flat damages and phys power. NOT to mention there is... a possible bug? Unsure if it's a bug or intended. You can cancel the recovery of your swing with the arming sword by firing the handcrossbow allowing you to... slash+fire then immediately slash again. With all your flat modifiers this is a BIG damage burst to someone that just got in close to you.

Spear is generally more picked for PVE, because it allows you to clear INCREDIBLY fast, it's only benefit in pvp is that you often get the first hit and if the person is low enough and you do a headpoke that might be enough to kill them and save you.

[real trellis]

Yeah that's true

[small furnace]

They're decent melee options, but still not as strong as other classes melee options. Hence why they have the strong range, but I'm okay with shifting the balance of ranger a little in a future rework.

Just don't feel like people will ever be satisfied with these incremental nerfs, people will want more until they don't die to them at all anymore.

(Which I DO get to be clear, it doesn't FEEL fun to die to)

Making them more of a utility/all rounder character, more like a survivalist in the future would be fine with me. Since incredibly strong ranged attacks are just ONE aspect of a ranger's kit in dnd after all which this game is modeling itself after.

[wind nova]

Anyone else think it would have been good to have dynamic entry into normal lobbies? e.g. 1 purple, two blues, unlimited greens

[summer kelp]

I suggest changing the way buffs work fundamentally by implementing 3 different effects in the class: self cast, friendly cast, enemy cast. this way they can be fine tuned instead of just trying to find a balance with broad nerfs/adjustments and make buffs more viable in solo/normal groups and less in buffball

[mortal solar]

one of the main problems is is that they have the quickest movement speed in the game with rogue so the only way you can catch up is if you have a wizard with haste and even when you finally close the gap after being shot to the brink of death they can either outpoke you with a spear and kill you with it because for some reason the spear perk hasnt been changed to 10% its still just +10 dmg (making a grey spear easily go into the 40s on body) and if they dont have a spear they have a arming sword what is still one of the best melee weapons in the game

[small furnace]

It is not +10 damage. I know that for a fact. https://darkanddarker.wiki.spellsandguns.com/Ranger

[mortal solar]

damn, i missed the patch when they updated that im sorry my fault

[graceful frost]

Thats strait false. Rogue has 15 more ms then them, and with base they have 5 more than fighter and wiz. Wizard has haste invis, fighter had sprint, barb has rage and axes, bard has the self buff and drums(rip bard). Close to every class can outrun them

[graceful frost]

It was never a flat 10 dmg

[granite plinth]

yeah, i personally think gear and attributes should have a score system.

That being said, i like the blue entry cap. I think it strongly proves a point.

I think it definitely could be improved, but is for sure what was needed.

A more dynamic system would take a lot of time to implament.

[mortal solar]

okay, very interestingly i think the wiki lies

[mortal solar]

i just tested it just in case and no it gives a flat 10 in my test just now grey spear base 33 dmage did 43

[graceful frost]

thats just not true lol. its 10 percent physical power bonus, exactly like it says in the description which is 10 percent dmg. it was never 10 flat dmg and is not 10 flat dmg

[real trellis]

I think it used to say 10 dmg or 10 str or something but it was always 10% phys power bonus

[graceful frost]

ah ye

[jovial swan]

I'ma be real, they should really try out solos-only and teams-only versions of the team maps next patch.

[vivid coral]

-Gambling statistics: Possibility to change a chosen statistic of an object for a random statistic at gold cost, each roll costs more gold. It would give more role to the merchants, more utility to the gold and the possibility to trade with more valuable items. Motive: to give an example..and I am a cleric xD...As there is a possibility that you get ''spell capacity'' in a barbarian axe, and this is useless for him...give him the possibility to try to change the statistic for gold and let luck have the last word (like in diablo, for example).

You will only be able to change a chosen statistic by a random one and it will cost more and more expensive.

Vote if u like ---> ''Change of items stats'' is the title of the post on the official page
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487234/change-of-items-stats

[summer drift]

When are the devs gonna fix the issue with the gold purses?

[wet ether]

honestly as someone who used to main rogue this is a really good idea. also on the conversation about rouges and rangers, rogues have almost no actual combat viability. unless you have good gear fighting another player let alone more than one is a 100% death sentence, however as a ranger I would pretty consistently get kills in 1v1s and 1v2s. I'd just arrow spam and so long as I have enough distance or some high ground there's nothing they can do. rouges just kinda suck lol

[summer drift]

You can't get rid of gold pouches unless you go highroller

[pallid gorge]

Please let me sell gold bags back to traders

[real trellis]

They do, but they're the best at looting so it's arguably easier to gear up as a rogue than it is on other classes? As long as you can rat your way out a few times anyway.

[granite plinth]

attribute stacking needs looking at

[real trellis]

Damagestacking needs looking at too. Ranger and Wizard (and sorta Warlock&Rogue) benefit massively from damagestacking.

Not that other classes don't also benefit from it but on like, barb and fighter, you want a bunch of strength and agi so you can move fast and tank hits while also dealing respectable damage.

[glacial sphinx]

feel like attributes are kinda fine now. Only added damage is very high

[pseudo prism]

all long range damage needs to be toned down. a lot of melee weapons needs a revamp in order to make them viable again. let rouges use daggers effectivly instead of the rapier and let barbs use 2h axes and not only the viking sword. create a proper auction house and region lock to prevent the cheating gold farmers from ruining the game

[wet ether]

honestly I've been ratting a bit with rouge recently and I've noticed it's much harder to actually find gear but at the same time easier to make gold. I've been getting like 450 gold runs

[real trellis]

Don't have to find gear really, just do a little mining here and there and you can make cobalt stuff when the rolls are good

or just sell it and buy gear off trade chat

[gloomy anchor]

SO MANY COIN PURSES ONLY WAY TO GET RID OF THEM IS PAY FOR HIGH ROLLER TO DROP THEM

[real trellis]

have you tried refilling them with gold?

[gloomy anchor]

hahah yeh but man my invent is sooooo full 50% of it is coin purses lmfao

[wet ether]

true, I'm just saying it feels like the drop rates for gear I can actually use is a lot lower for rogue compared to something like wizard. as a wizard I'm constantly finding equipment like hats and shoes, but as a rouge it feels like I'm lucky to find a white dagger

[restive coral]

Revert the rare items only in normals or create a high roller duo

[real trellis]

Why'd you buy so many lmao

[gloomy anchor]

selling stuff in trade just gives me more lmfao

[real trellis]

split gold into stacks of 25 in each bag and get rid of 2x more bags when you buy things in the trade channels then lol. What're they gonna do, decline?

[gloomy anchor]

holy shit thats actually really smart lmfao

[real trellis]

More evil tips later

[gloomy anchor]

thx dude 🙂 muhahahahahahaha

[covert shadow]

lmao

[floral stratus]

I really think a naked only playlist would be smart, where youre able to to wear what you pick up in the dungeon. Blues, and purples literally has its own separate playlist, and the loot drop goes back to the way it was. Yes theres was too much gold, but the changes as of right now; have decimated highroller lobbies, and honestly makes normals “blue runs” not worth queing because nothing drops.

Theres minimal incentive in going redroom, because no exaggeration theres literally no loot. The way loot was dropping before; because of how frequent and quality, it allowed you to pick and choose which stats you wanted. For someone like myseld that plays a large amount; i was able to farm a few sets that have decent stats. God forbid you run into my team that has 3 people with very good blue sets, and you have greens, and whites after the update trying to gear and theres literally no good gear that drops, and if it does its over the course of multiple dungeons..youre just getting pulverized. All thus change has done is make people extremely agro, and loot means nothing. Although its nice to fight more teams, the drive for the game for me at least has declined immensely, because the half i also enjoyed, seeing loot, and building nice sets is now gone. Either make stashes 3x bigger than they are so people can build armor sets and just pvp in its own playlist, or please figure a way you can bring some sort of balance.

[spring hound]

fix the stairs on goblin cave to troll room, you get stuck on every square inch of them and its fucking annoying

[floral stratus]

If you want to find a way for people to spend their money, literally come out with a ranked 2v2, 3v3 playlist that is strictly pvp. People will just bring in purples by default because its the better gear. You can still have highroller, but i truly believe making people pay the amount your asking for gear they cant use rn is cringe, and only gives less incentive for people to participate in those playlist. Make less gold nodes on the doubles map so people aren’t exploiting them, and making upwards around 10-15k a day.

[visual violet]

CAN WE PLEASE ADD UNLIMITED GOLD TO TRADES. ALL THE HIGH TICKET ITEMS HAVE SCAMMERS TRYING TO STEAL FROM PEOPLE AND YOU CANT HARDLY EVER BUY ANYTHING WITH GOLD

[hardy vector]

make throwables no longer stack with add phys, true phys, wpn damage, or strength

also they go after bards ms and swing speed but not damage and rousing rhythms

[echo gorge]

combine pick pocket and hide mastery change my mind

[regal heron]

1. Nerf gear to the floor (Gloria Victis ex.)
2. Combine all maps in a pool (Ruins, Crypts, Coliseum)
3. Remove HR
4. Bring triple blues back
5. Remove duos

[abstract swallow]

passing grade, I accept your changes

[ripe bluff]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/501917/update-to-gear-stats

[granite plinth]

speak for yourself, were finding a bunch of good shit running ruins and hitting the royal chests.

[floral stratus]

cap

[eager oyster]

Ill change my statement to you're litterally low iq small brain, no braincells.

[latent creek]

A humble suggestion, maybe stop destroying the bard class to oblivion?

[floral stratus]

referencing to a very particular map, and set of boxes only furthers my point. Read the rest of what I had to say, and I think you will reconsider typing something this random, and irrelevent again.

[mortal solar]

nahh we deserve it mhmhmh

[floral stratus]

those responses were not to you friend, they were to cloip. ty for agreeing with what I said to start with, I should have tagged his name, my apologies.

[hardy vector]

make throwables no longer stack with add phys, true phys, wpn damage, or strength https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/501921/make-throwables-no-longer-stack-with-add-phys-true-phys-wpn-damage-or-strength

[abstract swallow]

bard is destined to eternally eat shit because of the class's knowledge gap
either you now how to do the cancels or you don't, and it makes the class absurdly different at the low and high end

you could have just been a sane class if Bards let them take the tech away, but now you're doomed to eternal torment for your hubris

[granite plinth]

no one can be asked to read your boring essays bro, reconsider writing 500 word monologues

[floral stratus]

I reside on the leaderboards since they have released such a ranking system. Myself, and the community I have under me would like them to address issues in the game, because we feel it has potential.

[granite plinth]

cool bro, ive never heard of you or the community you lord over.

[floral stratus]

Making it near those group of players can very difficult, this I can understand. If you continue to play, I have hopes your experiences get better in time.

[granite plinth]

you have to be a bot

[hallow cargo]

@dawn grotto Please you seriously need to do something about teaming up in goblins, I literally just got shot down by two geared rangers in high roller with my best set on. This shouldn’t be allowed, makes me feel like not playing the game because all my hard work was lost in a fight I never stood a chance in. If I lost in a fight against one ranger fine but this just leaves a sour taste in anyone’s mouth this happens to and quite honesty makes us want to quit the game

[granite plinth]

@ ing the devs is cringe as fuck

[hallow cargo]

Trying to start fights in a suggestion discussion channel is cringe

[floral stratus]

amen

[granite plinth]

not as bad as coming in ating devs crying xD

[hallow cargo]

its a suggestion for the game for something thats extremely broken right now, your just an interenet troll going through channels trying to be ugly

[granite plinth]

alright dude, stop embarrassing yourself

[pearl ice]

is there a way to upgrade to founder edition and get the white skeleton skin and blue fire torch if i have just bought the normal version of the game?

[steep oak]

maybe instead of nerfing bard maybe even touch cleric ranger and wizard? I don't think bard swinging 20% faster was more important to balance than ranger and wizard 2 shotting people with bodyshots

[harsh grotto]

i wish they make cleric heal not instant

[teal plume]

that and the fact they can 1 shot u with a grey staff using melee? yeah nah they need hella nerfed.

🫵 🇳 🇪 🇷 🇫 🫵 🇨 🇱 🇪 🇷 🇮 🇨 🫵 🇳 🇪 🇽 🇹 🫵

[scarlet creek]

This is what I suggest for Cleric so they get nerfs similar to bard:
(-) Cleric’s lesser healing lowered to 10 and then in next update lowered to 7.
(-) Cleric’s holy light lowered to 20 and then to 12 in the update after.
(-) Earthquake now does 1HP a step and only scales at 12% like din of darkness.
(-) Holy strike damage lowered to 8 and scales at 12%
(-) Protection spell lowered to 12 and then to 8 in next update after first nerf

Might as well remove judgement and smite and give cleric double spell memory only so they are even more like bard.

[steep oak]

unironically still more powerful than bard, remove cleric plate armor and can only heal resting people would be a great nerf!

[scarlet creek]

Ur right, they can only heal others while they are resting! No more healing in battle.

[smoky girder]

English isnt everyones primary or first language, stop being vitriolic and adding no value to the convo.

[steep oak]

exact same reason bard's healing was nerfed

[scarlet creek]

Yeah, I’ll be playing cleric to support my team as they are 20x better than a bard

After the last nerf in hot fix #15 it made bard a more selfish and looting class. Now it’s self buffs got nerfed while it’s support buffs are terrible, other than rousing of course only good team buff lol.

[smoky girder]

Theyre substantially different from any other class, its unlikely they will be in a presentable state anytime soon. They add a lot of variables to combat simply by being on the map, and it will need to be adjusted for a long time

[scarlet creek]

It’s just crazy that they call bard done when they only have 2 skills they can use and those skills are the same skills of spell memory. The other two skills are A. worse than just playing a song(encore) or B. A worse song(song of silence) for half the time (3 seconds instead of 6) in a cone in front of u instead of AOE like song, and has a 30 second cooldown(song can be played again instantly after the 6 seconds ends)

They said adjustments aren’t done to bard, and every time they said that they just nerfed the class instead of adding anything to change it up.

[eternal nebula]

What if they made it so (like the goblin tinkerer from terraria) the goblin merchant could reroll things for an incredibly high price it would perfectly fit the game and the goblin merchants gambling

[formal granite]

would love to see ironamce add a guaranteed extract within final circles of normal and high roller dungeons, the meta as it stands is if someone is less geared than you, you can hold the final room with the majority of portals and nobody can escape, they wait for time to close the ring and kill others with storm for free endless hell farming, add some other methods of extracting raids in late game so players arent being killed by storm so frequently after surviving an entire run already.

[cerulean kestrel]

The new leaderboard system is such a joke. They couldn’t have designed a more exploitable system if they tried

[viral shard]

Please please please make it so you can jump out of red portal, I just got stuck when it spawned beneath me

[bleak pollen]

Turn alchemist and surgeon into one vendor: Apothecary. Why have one vendor for just bandages?

[tame hull]

I think the main problem I have is how ranged characters have way more chance of winning a fight against a melee character. Maybe nerf rangers? Other than that the game is fantastic, keep up the good work!

[idle shoal]

-Possibly adding Currency and Crafting material tabs with their own set space may be something to test out

-As a bit more of an optimistic and or meme suggestion, I wouldn't mind trying out a directional barb shout that would silence spellcasters. Or at least add new skills in general since there are two that can be rotated out pretty easily as they are rarely used

[flat shadow]

to add to this, we need to drop the crossbow meta. super lame just playing revolutionary war turn-based ranged combat simulator down every hallway

[tame hull]

I'm just not sure why we have melee classes if the actual meta is ranged

[devout lark]

there needs to be a magical resistance add filter in trading chat. There is only armor rating add. Magic resistance without the "add" doesnt filter negative magic resistance from plate armor.

[rich badger]

we need high roller ruins now

[abstract swallow]

the only HR Ruins we need is it being the first floor of HR Crypts

[jovial swan]

I'm going to make a few suggestion ideas that I believe would significantly improve the game.

[near steeple]

allow coin purses to be brought into normal dungeons wtfffff

[devout lark]

preach

[near steeple]

is there a way to delete coin purses without bringing them in?

[cobalt root]

If the game doesn't have one yet, there should be a Named Unique lantern - the Jack-o'-Lantern

[winged mortar]

Ya!

[jovial swan]

[Potion of Magic Protection] (Loot)

Grants the drinker a barrier that absorbs 15/25/35/45/55/60/70/75 magical damage.
Cannot be used with the Potion of Protection, and vice versa.

[Necklace of Haste] (Loot)

Grants the wearer a movement speed increase of 7.
Higher rarities increase this by 2.

[Wind Ring] (Crafting Item)

Grants the wearer the ability to double jump without needing a perk.
Is always an Epic rarity item.

[Dexterous Ring] (Loot)

Grants the wearer a +15% action speed boost when using two weapons or two-handed melee weapons.
Grants the wearer the ability to hold primary weapons and secondary weapons in their opposite slots.

[Barbaric Band] (Crafting Item)

Grants the user +5 True Physical Damage, and is only affixed with physical strength increasing stats.
Is always an Epic rarity item.

[Elemental Affixes]

Elemental Affixes can now be applied to items of Rare quality or higher by going to the Alchemist and providing him with the weapon and crafting materials to give them the affixes.

The following grants said affixes:
[3 Cobalt Ingot] - Freezing damage for -40% movement and action speed for 1.5 seconds. Does not stack or reset.
[3 Rubysilver Powder] - Burning damage for 1 damage per second for 8 seconds as magic. Does not stack.
[3 Gold Powder] - Electric damage for 10 damage as magic.
[5 Intact Skull] - Poison damage for 4 damage over 4 seconds as magic. Stacks up to 5 times.

Only one elemental affix can be put on at a time.
Ranged weapons are given a -50% damage penalty when affixes are applied, and lose armor penetration if they have it.

The poison elemental affix and Wind Ring would also come with the removal of the Poison Weapon and Double Jump perks from Rogue.

[slim haven]

is there an upgrade purchase option like if i buy the base game now and then buy FE later, will it charge me $15 or the full $50?

[viscid flare]

Change the lobby to a panopticon where we spawn into separate cells and can only inspect the player to our left and right.

[hollow grotto]

This is more of a thing I noticed then a suggestion, but the gold coin purse u can't bring in unless high roller now, so we're unable to hold gold in a small pouch like before, maybe lower its rarity to make it available to bring in so players can continue to use it to hold 50g in 1 slot in coins, also maybe make a silver coin purse for the same reasoning, making it more worth to grab them in high roller than just the gold coins

[pine comet]

Never make a suggestion again

[small furnace]

They did it intentionally for that reason actually.

Though it's had the side effect of people not being able to do anything with gold purses.

[hollow grotto]

oh ok

[hardy vector]

0 need for the "blue and under" shit in norms, it just makes norms more difficult because theres MORE geared people. just add gear scoring

[real fjord]

.

[devout lark]

how is there more geared people with a limit on gear?

[hardy vector]

more people drop the purples and go to god bis blues and just pub stomp

[devout lark]

id rather fight bis blue than bis purple

[hardy vector]

the issue is nobody ran bis purple in norms

[devout lark]

yeh they did

[hardy vector]

i saw one purple every three matches on osme dude that wasnt shit. now im seeing almost everybody geared in norms

also it screwed up the economy

[small furnace]

It was very rare you would see a purple that had 3 good stats in norms. Normally just 2 good stats which is just a more consistent version of a blue since blue can have 2 good stats too.

but yes I've noticed people in norms are more confident to bring their blues in now that they know that nobody will have any better.

[tranquil plaza]

Horrible ideas

[blazing aurora]

Game is way better after patch

[visual violet]

i really think that they need to remove all slows from any projectile in the game bar frost bolt

[neat reef]

Can we just remove the gear limit in regular. So now we can't even run a single peice of shitty purps and we have guys like this. Who is running max damage roll +all min max blues.

https://gyazo.com/8e53714f7aa0e3f5b240c01af716c08f

[hardy vector]

still waiting on a nerf to a bards actual STATS and not songs
also rogue needs a dmg nerf to his burst, like for ambush

[void otter]

Do they? or is +weapon itemization broken

[cobalt root]

Last tiny circle of goblin caves should stop shrinking when it surrounds the last portal, then resume shrinking completely after 10 seconds.

[jovial swan]

I know of two changes that would be universally accepted.

[gentle rapids]

Add monkey

[jovial swan]

[Gold Coin Holding Items] - Rarity reduced to Common for Gold Purses, and Rare for Bags.
[Currency] - Rarity reduced to Common for all forms of Currency.

[cobalt root]

Enemies should not track and follow you through walls, leading to them blocking doorways trying to chase you before you even open a door.
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/501982/enemies-should-not-track-you-through-walls

[rapid charm]

This is for sure a problem

[glacial sphinx]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/501983/addressing-gear-disparity-without-gear-caps

[rapid charm]

You can achiles strike a Francisca axe it’s part of then game

[winter nova]

make the leaderboard more guild system based 🙂

[steel galleon]

Can the bard keep his mustache for all races

||really any hair customization would be baller||

[rapid canopy]

Best suggestion^

[jovial swan]

I think Ambush should go back to the 30% added damage. 50% too high.

Also, being naked should have a significantly higher damage penalty for players. Maybe for every piece you're not wearing (aside from Gloves and Boots), you have 15% more damage dealt, up to 45%.

[waxen flame]

^ died to a naked rogue

[cobalt root]

The Surgeon merchant should occasionally have grey or white rarity surgery kits (maybe only like 10% of the time)

[vivid summit]

Pve as a rogue is already incredibly slow if that was changed it would take 10 stabs to kill a single skeleton at 3 stabs a swing cycle or 4 swing cycles

[jovial swan]

I think a good way to hard nerf Ranger would be to make it so that the bow has charge power. All bows now deal 50% damage when fired prematurely, goes up to 100% damage once held for:

Survival Bow: As soon as the string is pulled back.
Recurve Bow: 3.5 seconds
Longbow: 5.5 seconds

That way Rangers now require skill and time to earn their kills rather than just shoot wildly and be rewarded equally for a crappy charge or a perfect charge. This would also make the damage tied more accurately to the velocity of the arrows.

[drowsy grotto]

Make fighters stats less strong minus resourcefulness

[drowsy grotto]

Survival bows should be instant and probably make recurve 1 and longbow 2, other then that I agree.

[jovial swan]

Nah, Recurve and Longbow deserve those numbers I gave.

[drowsy grotto]

It'd make them useless in stuff like goblin caves

3.5 and 5.5 is enough to make ranger useless in gobin caves since you'd be unable to protect yourself.

[jovial swan]

Not entirely useless. Just significantly slower.

[drowsy grotto]

They'd literally get to you before even dealing any damage

[jovial swan]

Well, you can deal 50% normal damage if you want to shoot fast. Or wait a little longer for higher scaling charge.

[drowsy grotto]

At that point just make it so longbows deal recurve bows damage, recurve bows dealing survival bows damage and survival bows I guess dealing like 75% damage

[woven oak]

Game logic sure but realistically yes you can hold bows for longer than 8s but no one will hold a longbow for 5.5 for "max damage" holding a bow for longer also doesn't increase the velocity of it

[jovial swan]

I mean that's what it does in the game. Full charge of the bow doesn't even mean max velocity. It just means it's ready to fire. There's a waiting period for max velocity after.

[woven root]

we need a lobby with no gear tbk

[woven oak]

what

[grizzled mesa]

Remove clerics being able to heal or buff dead things on the ground. Im tired of dying because i healed a random dead goblin instead of myself. Its fucking stupid

[real trellis]

Have you tried looking up instead of down

[grizzled mesa]

I shouldnt have to bend my fucking neck to the roof to heal myself especially if i have to pay attention to whats around me while either being chased or chasing

[woven oak]

Yep

You really shouldn't have to look at the roof not to heal something that is dead,
Does revive work on mobs?

[grizzled mesa]

Its just so irritating if im trying to kite and buff myself and i happen to nick something dead on the ground, prime example i just died because i healed a dead skeleton champion instead of myself and got a crossbow to the face

[woven oak]

Yeah healed a corpse in the dark 3 times because i couldn't see it and thought my heal was bugged like bard songs

[near schooner]

Make EVERY class able to use Crossbow BUT make it a perk requirement. (idea came from Nathan_Ing in Grimmmz stream)

[real trellis]

Charge spell > fully charged > whip viewpoint up > release spell > look back down.

[vocal cradle]

please remove hr modules from lr goblin caves

[real trellis]

Looking up is objectively the best way to avoid targetting dead or living enemies when you're trying to self heal or self buff. It can be done quickly with very little practice and should never take your attention away from your surroundings long enough to matter as long as your object permanence and predictive faculties are functioning.

[grizzled mesa]

Maybe i shouldnt have to worry about healing or buffing DEAD things , if that isnt the obvious issue then youre just dumb

[real trellis]

Cleric doesn't need to be any easier than it is

And corpses need to continue being viable targets for magic so that they can be used for chain lightning shenanigans

Imagine if I came in here and said that weapons shouldn't be stopped midswing if they hit an object

That's basically what you're asking for

[celest pagoda]

the loot nerf seems to have made gc hr dead again rip

[cobalt root]

I've been getting good loot in HR GC still

[small furnace]

It's not the loot nerf I don't think. The reason I don't go is cause the leaderboard is up, when the leaderboards are up the grinders arrive in HR to start killing everybody. When they're not up you can expect a more farm oriented experience.

[celest pagoda]

true but damn even the leaderboards are unmotivating to climb its just rng based now if your in a dead lobby gg to your killer outlaw points this is the first actual patch i dislike

[small furnace]

Yeah it's kinda weird.

I'm p sure the problem with the leaderboards was they felt grindy to climb, they also kinda turn HR into a battle royale fest which means only the most hardcore climbers ended up going there, leaving HR dead.

So the devs in response made the leaderboards... more grindy?

I think this game needs a dedicated ranked mode for leaderboards personally, hope the devs move toward that. Then maybe the 'HR IS DEAD!!' issue can be worked on

[twilit crater]

we don't need even more ranged damage in this game

[abstract swallow]

yeah huh

[small furnace]

Here's a suggestion: Add a way to downgrade purple gear into blue gear lmao.

I found a BIS leather pants with +3 STR and +4 phys power and it wouldn't even sell for 50g. Had to vendor it. The third roll was bad, I'd of gladly had it removed to make it a blue.

[real trellis]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/502003/crossbows-are-kinda-nutty Wacky suggestion here but I think it could be interesting if IM experimented with this kind of thing.

[woven oak]

Brilliant strawman, its almost like wizard is a seperate class to cleric and every spell is different than eachother. no ones trying to steal ur wizard cheese. just not to heal or buff dead entities
are you saying we should allow warlock to heal off corpses now? thats basically what ur asking for. Theres no secret divine strike strat on dead mobs. and its just QOL to change that. if you think refusing a QOL because a class shouldn't be easier is just dumb.

And well we are on the dumb strawman of weapons not stopping when hitting objects, the mobs don't so.

[real trellis]

All of this just to avoid moving your mouse slightly

[woven oak]

Small suggestion for big strawman

[real trellis]

I don't see the point in wasting development time on something when the workaround is incredibly easy. Maybe later when there's fewer bugs.

[woven oak]

Its not massive development
target corpse: yes/no

[real trellis]

If you think coding is that easy I have a bridge to sell you

[woven oak]

how long?

The bridge that is, not the line of code

[real trellis]

Same distance you have to move your mouse at 800dpi to look at the ceiling

[woven oak]

Are you using mouse acceleration?

[real trellis]

I mean HOPEFULLY ironmace hasn't spaghetticoded everything to the point where disabling buffs and healing on corpses causes problems but we don't know that lol

[woven oak]

Probably is since mobs still attack through walls tbh

[real trellis]

never

[woven oak]

Thats a pretty small bridge, how much are you trying to pawn it for? a troll pelt?

[real trellis]

at least

[woven oak]

I'd give you a troll pelt for it but lost it unfortunately. died because i healed the deathskull above me. massive skill issue tbh

[real trellis]

things that have never happened

You know how there are more airplanes in the ocean than submarines in the sky?

[woven oak]

Haven't looked so no

maybe ill go heal a submarine

[small furnace]

Here's a solution for both sides.

Just add a self-cast button instead of requiring you to hit nothing to self-cast."

Like hold down the spellcast button and press a diff button instead of just letting it go to selfcast. Ez

[woven oak]

yeah

[grand leaf]

Is there a chance that IM will work more on the Melee side of warlock? I love it and the cleric but looking at them as is seems like the warlock could use a little love in that direction.

[real trellis]

I mean... If you want to run melee warlock, you just run spells + boc, buff up before a fight with E. Shield, PoS, and Bloodstained blade, then you run in and BoC someone for massive damage

[wide lagoon]

Should add trade filter for specific rolls

[real trellis]

There's a filter where you can choose the attributes you want to see though you can't really exclude all but those

[haughty helm]

allow us to take coin purses into regulars

[small furnace]

Surely you're joking. BoC warlock oneshots most classes in melee range even with just a staff.

[echo dome]

BoC warlock makes me run away from warlocks sincerely a fighter main

[small furnace]

Yep, can't out-damage BoC. The strongest melee ability in the game is on a caster class. Kinda funky.

[echo dome]

I've been hit for 80% of my hp with full purples +all gear shit is crazy good

[small furnace]

80% with full purples? I've been hit for 100% by a warlock that had only greens at best. Like literally. I snuck up on him, wacked him with my arming sword 3 times. He turned around, clapped his hands and one tapped me with a staff.

[echo dome]

nah i mean i was in the purples lol

[small furnace]

Ohhh yeah it's wack. I was in blues when this happened, but I was playing slayer fighter so not a tank version.

[echo dome]

darkplate armor 60% pdr about 15-20% magic resist still hit me for 70-80%

[small furnace]

It's way too strong, it shouldn't benefit from scaling lmao.

[echo dome]

i can probably find a clip lol

[small furnace]

It's ok. Like I said, what happened to me was a literal one tap, 120 health from full health with a staff. I believe you.

[woven oak]

Okay but that doesn't mean they cant diversify the melee side of warlock tho

[neon star]

Game mode idea: Start spawn is Ruins 3's/2's( only can start naked). Ruins loot would spawn greys to greens. You can either exit or continue to crypts, where then you will be placed in a lobby que for a normal crypts map. Crypts would then have increased green drop rate with a chance of blue rarity. Then again, you can leave or keep going to hr...ect ect. I know this sounds like a long match, maybe shorten ruins map timer? Opinions?

I remember ruins starting off like this, but lots of people don't like the premade geared guys stomping them in their flocks and grey wizard staffs. Thought this was a good idea for that.

[woven oak]

I actually really like the idea of a tournament bracket match making, At any time you could drop out and collect spoils, but you can keep going only once you've finished the prior levels as a naked. you wont have minmax traders. if you've only got access to the spoils you've got on prior levels. yeah itll have it problems but itd be interesting to see how it goes

[toxic pulsar]

The game really needs to condense a lot of things. Their original vision was queue ruins, it leads into crypts, which leads into hell. They need to just remove all of these modes and make it so everyone is in the same lobbies, and there is a level beyond hell which serves as high-roller. You can have leaderboards for all queues instead of just a HR queue then. Because there would only be two modes, the 4 level squad mode, and the goblin caves, which should have red portals that go to the 2nd layout as one queue as well.

They should develop a new map for duos that also has multiple levels. Also, when players go down to a new level, it should put you into a new queue and re-populate the map with more players. The zone timings need to be adjusted greatly for hell and beyond if that happens.

But the point of all of that is to remove the split playerbase and incentive for players to avoid harder content. Red portals should spawn much earlier than they currently do, that way juicers will feel the time incentive to not waste games hunting newbies and instead just keep going down asap for better loot. Or red portals could spawn based off of killing minibosses on the map so you can rush them and go down asap.

These changes would still give players the choice of how they want to navigate the game. If they want a challenge, they seek the chalenge out in-game, instead of at the queue button. If they want to get some money and leave, they can still do that by avoiding fights and red portals and leaving on floor 1. It would also be pretty easy to balance loot like this, you'd simply gate it so legendaries and uniques only drop on floor 4, beyond hell, while hell drops purples, crypts drops blues, and ruins drops greens and maybe rarely blues. Goblin caves could be further expanded with more challenging content to get up to legendary gear, or maybe some solo specific uniques that aren't quite as powerful.

[ruby pendant]

Nerf crossbows by requiring a perk slot to use them, solves over half the community’s issues right then and there.

Rogue requires a perk to use crossbow, to increase stealth time, to move in stealth, why not give fighter bars and wizard less ranger options when they can already abuse them?

[tiny delta]

Bring back patch 15!

[real trellis]

Rogue's plethora of useless perks and perks that used to be free freatures, is not good class design and should not be looked to as a model

[ruby pendant]

that and the lack of players in the goblin caves with the new layouts it feels like I am playing a solo game almost, kinda sad

[elfin vale]

DAY THREE of asking for a queue separate from anyone in the Trader's Guild. (IRONMAN QUEUE, IRONMAN CHARACTERS) When you make a char, choose to lock it from trading and that can't be undone. You can't queue against anyone who can trade. You can only queue up with people who are also on their ironman characters. Everything everyone has is self found, self crafted, or bought from an NPC merchant. THIS WILL SAVE THE NEW PLAYER EXPERIENCE.

[winter bison]

I usually solo crypts. mainly cuz more loot and I like the map better. you just avoid people or drop on teams as a 3rd party. I do better as solo then in a group for some reason.. guess my team mates are so bad they make it harder for me lol

[winter bison]

I toally agree. this game it hurt by trading. people exploit it to buy gold from websites and then buy perfectly stated gear. its a cancer to this game and needs to go

[ripe turtle]

What do you guys think of healing percentages on healing potions and bandages? Leave a vote for my suggestion if you like the idea!

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/501166/changing-potion-and-bandage-healing

[honest wharf]

Right now the market is fucked for people running High rollers, where originally you could run HR to get very good items to sell for a high price, now very good purples sell for less than average rolled blues. If they continue to put a gear cap of Rare on Normal dungeons my suggestion would be to deincentivize running normals by capping the quality of Gear that can be dropped to Green with the only exception being Bosses. This would make running Normals not worth it for the average player as it would be difficult to stay competitive verses teams running blues and incentivize running HR to find and then save blues for their normals while also giving players who run HR constantly a method of making money from the selling of blues.
TL;DR disincentive running Normals by making the loot terrible and incentivize running HR by making the loot that can be gathered there the best type of loot avaible for both normals and HR.

[hoary moon]

This is what you don’t want is people pulling loot from HR to punch down. Current situation makes for the most competitive game play across the spectrum to date. Now a few minor tweaks on gear like not having weapon damage on every piece of gear and we are getting closer to solid balance.

I’m not saying it’s perfect just the best situation I’ve seen yet.

[south pagoda]

ADD a fkn looting bag that u can craft to bring ingame for players to store more stuff just like RuneScape does it and also add a rotating feature to rotate items around our inv to fit it on other spots etc etc cmnn man this game is good but just add more QOL features lmaooo

[hoary moon]

I agree lessoning the purples found in normals is a good idea. But being able to find them and build a kit for HR is nice for entry barrier.

[honest wharf]

Nothing stops people who only run normals from acquiring blues in this method, they only need to go and trade for the blues, or they will be incentivized to try HR out to try and get the blues that they wont to buy. Right now there is almost no point in running Highrollers because the gear that you get from HR can only really be used in HR

[hoary moon]

So what’s wrong with playing HR if u want to run better gear play against people in better gear? Maybe lower the cost on HR a lil or something but that’s kinda how it should be tiered

And if people want to punch up more power to them. It’s the punching down that was the problem. And anyone crying about it clearly only enjoys punching down

All my lobbies from normals to HR have been more competitive since patch.

And yes you can still min/max in both lobbies and get extreme gear advantages.

[native depot]

I agree, it was annoying playing normals with minimal gear against god rolled purples and higher. PvP has been twice as fun and most people can get decent kits fairly easily now. This is the definitely the best state the game has been at since I have been playing

[elfin sinew]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488400/the-ruins-high-roller

[hoary moon]

100% agree we need ruins HR map

And the game is balanced enough they should start working on getting all the classes out and new content imo from there. Refocus on balancing in a few months. Games are competitive now. Remove weapon damage on every piece of gear and we are close to solid balance.

[south pagoda]

DELETE ROGUE

[blazing sundial]

Should Update magic staff attack animation and range. its a staff..it should be swung with both hands and should have way longer reach than a goid damned dagger lol

[hybrid heath]

portals should show on minimap when they appear 👍 one time audio cue is lame difficulty, if they emitted a cue once a minute or something that works to if we HAVE to use audio (which i really dont understand why)

[granite plinth]

I think they should show on the map if theyre outside the circle, so people who find them before that are rewarded but if nobody takes it theres still a chance for someone to

[hybrid heath]

i like that

[granite plinth]

Personally I dont like the circle in general but if we're sticking with it, I whole heartedly agree that the portals should appear on the minimap somehow

[prime thicket]

balance is done anyway as soon as the promised skill tree released in 2025

[teal torrent]

how many people have already suggested selling gold coin purses to merchant for 0 gold ? please let us destroy this item...

[long girder]

Change rarity of coin purse to white or blue

[magic ermine]

Mabye lowering the max rolls on Bules and greens Just a little Just trun the konbs and bit might even the tone and make purple epic have a better feel to them

[cerulean kestrel]

Trade and trader is the worst part of this game by a mile

[timid palm]

nerf barb throwing axes dark grey shouldnm't do half of a rouges health with one throwing axe to the body

[vivid summit]

Some items should be both Mainhand and offhand. Lanterns and hand crossies for example

[mortal bone]

Add down portals to solos and duos

[hardy vector]

make traps last 10 seconds instead of infinite

[pulsar creek]

The new blue gear max in normal lobbies is horrible it means if you want too run a good kit you saved up for or found it has to be in high roller, then when you take that gear into high roller you play against Chinese gold farmers or one super geared Chinese team and all the solo Chinese rouges team with them or ghosting for them there is 0 point in a gear limit into normal raids

[placid summit]

Fighters shouldnt be able to use crossbow while wearing plate armor.