suggestion-discussion

[small furnace]

Last wipe was fun because of the no character reset, hope they stick to that trend. Gear wipes are cool, forcing us to re-grind exp isn't.

[daring trail]

I agree. They pretty much have reverted most good changes. So i just hope for the best.

@white anchor yeah old loot was so bad. I hope it stays the same as now, or maybe same quantity just slightly lower quality. i constatnly find blues and purples even in normal

[plain wagon]

i think sometimes the devs make adjustments that the overall majority cry about before they even play. more people cry and they do it often enough that the devs get in their heads about the changes before people have time to adjust to them so they revert them back and then its the sweats that are happy and the casuals that are like "alright ill go f myself in the corner then"

[fierce lichen]

man warlock is terrible now. only worth running boc and phantomize. no point trying to use spells to heal mid-fight. i have a +4 magic healing set and the healing is just terrible

[plain wagon]

as you should. purples should have like 5% drop rates, blues should be somewhere around 15% and greens should be about 40%, that still leaves 40% for greys and whites.

[wooden meadow]

It might be related to the problem that no progress i saved for the last 9h for anyone. or the „severe issue“ could be too much loot. yeah, it‘s very hard to know

[plain wagon]

sounds like you got balanced out so you couldnt just spam heals honestly

[daring trail]

I think normals should be slightly lower. Make HR even more worth it

[fierce lichen]

it isnt balanced. it was nerfed too hard

[plain wagon]

HR should make the adjustments that greens fall out of the loot pool, then make it legendary 5%, purple 15%, and blues 40% with higher drops in treasure rates to balance the loot pool a bit

[small furnace]

Oh, yeah that'll be it. Wonderful. Just checked and all my money from last night is gone. Very cool.

[plain wagon]

nah man. what isnt balanced is dealing insane damage to a warlock just for him to heal in the back line for 2 seconds to full health. hes balanced now

[short heath]

Keep HR where it is at. Change NPC drop tables to include more craft materials. No-ante drop rates down slightly, cannot drop purple or higher in no-ante, keep quantity the same across the board.

[granite plinth]

I really like the Bard perk "warsong" I think it should be more perks like this, because it gives a buff that only last for 6 seconds, so it forces the bard to play songs while fighting and I think this is the core bard gameplay

[wooden meadow]

I hope it wasn‘t that much. 😦

[fierce lichen]

im not saying it was balanced before but it isnt balanced now. it isnt even worth running heals if it's not going to heal enough to make a difference in a fight. nerfing something to where it becomes completely useless isnt balance

[short heath]

It was not nerfed too hard. Not having any resource cost or negative to using your kit is not balanced. They got toned down, as they should have, and now are on par with other classes.

[small furnace]

It was about 2k of loot and gear, pretty damn annoying. I'm sure they'll give some cookie cutter response and say: "oh we sorry we wasted your time" it is what it is.

[plain wagon]

the heals do damage to enemies while healing you, its not meant to be a full heal, its meant to sustain a fight for a few more seconds. stack regular pots with it and youll get heals back. everyone else uses pots, this forces warlocks to do the same. its more balanced than it use to be

[short heath]

"I'm not gunna bring heals in spite of the fact that my magical healing got nerfed"

Lmao

[plain wagon]

if you want a full heal, you now have to use health siphon like the spell was intended for

[dusky arrow]

Add a report button for people trying to do real money transactions in trading post

[prime wraith]

WHY NO REGION LOCK? ARE THE CHINESE CORPORATIONS PAYING?!

[daring trail]

you ok man? you see a nerf and think the world is over?
Go watch onepeg right now, and see how great the healing still is LOL

[short heath]

Everyone butthurt about their classes getting nerfed, meanwhile me, as a Rogue main, did nothing but say "yep, this makes sense, oneshotting people isn't healthy for the game, and they're still playable" when Rogues got nerfed into the ground.

People gotta use some introspection, man. I get it, people wanna be powerful... but there are some things that just shouldn't be things.

[plain wagon]

right?! you still have craftable gloves, legs and i think boots that all stack magic healing as a base stat. the mag healing is there. hydra + curse of pain + power of sacrifice/health siphon

[eternal fable]

Lets address Earthquake forcing you to not move, while doing 1000 damage per step. This is AOE achilles strike before the nerf.

[short heath]

First ever earthquake complaint, besides for when it was actually bugged.

[violet sequoia]

True, I stardet to think that way wen they put back 50% from. Ambush

[eternal fable]

must be tripping, reddit is in shambles over earthquake @short heath either that or youre trolling

[short heath]

I don't look at Reddit for a reason. You shouldn't, either. It's a cesspool of no brain hive minds.

[violet sequoia]

2 cleeic, 1 with earthquake the other with locust swarm

You move, you die, you dont move, you die

[plain wagon]

not even gonna mention 1 cleric 2 rangers? sit in the earthquake and become a pin cushion lol

[eternal fable]

Right, but the point still stands. The spell is literally AOE achilles strike, and seems to be bugged and hit for 10 million

[plain wagon]

dont think it was bugged, people were just running crazy kits for mag damage and will

[daring trail]

I ran into earthquake a bunch yesterday.. someone must have made a youtube video or something.

But i do think something is bugged with the damage.
1 tick of earthquake did like 55 hp to me on my fighter

[plain wagon]

were you in full plate? plate reduces magic resistance

[violet sequoia]

With a shield, you can Block arrows, but theres nothing that can Block locust swarm + add a warlock phamtom and flamewalker

[eternal fable]

@plain wagon 1 tick does over 60 hp for me as a wizard, which decent will. This is basically the highest DPS ability in the game. It needs to be addressed

[daring trail]

nah i run dark plate, heavy leather legs, barb helm. usually 20-25% MR

[plain wagon]

i guess i havent been hit by it enough to feel the affect lol

[eternal fable]

its ridiculous

[plain wagon]

yeah the few times i have seen it, as a ranger i just instantly target the cleric from the backline

[daring trail]

Earthquake is strong, but i think people forget the cleric has to stand still haha. my ranger straight up killed a cleric trying to EQ me yesterday

[eternal fable]

@dawn grotto Please make sure devs are aware of Earthquake's ridiculous damage right now, if the exploit/issue yall are addressing isnt earthquake. It really needs a quick hotfix. Fights are 1 sided based on who has clerics

[short heath]

Might be bugged again if that's the case.

[plain wagon]

exactly, he either has to hold the spell so the frontline doesnt push, or he has to take a few arrows to the head

[eternal fable]

Im not saying remove earthquake. im saying dont make it do 60 damage per step

[daring trail]

now with all of that being said, i do think the dmg is bugged. it doing 50+ damage per tic is too much

[short heath]

Might also be taking double damage per tick based on z-height and y-length movement values possibly being separate for damage calculation.

[plain wagon]

yeah i think it should prob drop down to 20/tick

[eternal fable]

regardless of why, the spell is doing WAY more damage than it should for something so oppressive. Its basically hard CC or death

[daring trail]

right, like i agree if you are in the middle of it, and try to run out, maybe it does 80% of your hp or kills you.
but 1 step? 50 dmg? lmfaoooo

[plain wagon]

would you rather it hit for initial damage of 15hp and then tick only if you move?

[daring trail]

i think the mechanic of it right now is perfect. no initial dmg

[eternal fable]

it noly ticks if you move right now, its just that each step does 55+ damage

[tawny ravine]

Glad to see people talking about clerics again. I hope the new maps for goblin caves get some love because right now they are confusing and a little tricky. My biggest suggestion is that warlock shouldn’t be able to heal off of hydra (and maybe reduce the cost back to 15?)

[plain wagon]

yall watch when ken and jay were playing together, jay EQs a team, and ken just sits back and throws like 4 bottles at em lol

[short heath]

I think it's dealing double damage because of the height vs horizontal plane movements being technically separate, so if you take a step and a piece of terrain changes your height value in game it might be ticking twice for that one step.

[plain wagon]

im actually okay with the magic healing nerf and the extra cost to spells, i think healing off hydra is fine

[daring trail]

yea i just think that is a strat tho haha. obviously the EQ itself shouldnt do 50 dmg a step, but i think that interaction should still exist.

@short heath for sure, hopefully the devs find the issue (if there is one)

[granite plinth]

Arena game mode... 5v5 3v3 1v1

[plain wagon]

ill do you 1 better

Arena game mode, 1 boss sized room, 8 doors (2 per side), wager 25g/50g to enter, everyone spawns as a base kit fighter regardless of what class you play as, and its a fighters tournament, winner takes the wager money put up by each solo, and gets like a unlocked lions head for a bit of loot before one blue portal spawns

[quartz jetty]

This patch made the game go from the best its been to the worst its been. Please roll it back

[daring trail]

hahaha, maybe as a random event some weekend but not as a permanent mode

[plain wagon]

i disagree heavily

[plain wagon]

yeah like a community event or something just to break up the gameplay

[daring trail]

Yea this is an L take.
Best patch they've released. TTK is in a good spot to where getting purples actually feels good

[quartz jetty]

The patch is good for complete noobs. Bad for successful players

[hallow ember]

This is the worst patch of any of the playtests, and it's not even close. You want some duped golden keys? 🙂

[daring trail]

Its only bad for players who bought +2all/+3 god kits and rolled normal lobbies.

Successful players are in even better spots now

[plain wagon]

the worst this game ever was during playtest 2 when Ranger bows had no arrow distance fall off, everyone was a sniper with a cannon, and action speed on bows was a bit ridiculous. game was still fun but so far off balanced it looked drunk

[daring trail]

you act like duped keys havent been around every single wipe.
That has nothing to do with the gearing changes

[quartz jetty]

This patch made the game go from the best its been to the worst its been

[tawny ravine]

I agree a little. The day before I got a lot of good stuff and now it’s borderline useless. I think it’s a great patch but it just should have been a wipe. I think as it’s a play-test a random wipe isn’t bad.

[plain wagon]

idk if youve played recently, but open like 4 chest and you all of a sudden have gear to fight back with. meaning you can be naked, go in, grab loot, and still have engaging fights since god tier armor rolls are gone

[hallow ember]

I made 900 gold from a single HR run last night, there's no challenge to anything now.

[daring trail]

yea if you were a players who bought +2all/+3 god kits and rolled normal lobbies. this patch probably sucks for you, since you arent rolling anyone now

[quartz jetty]

Thats exactly why this patch made the game go from the best its been to the worst its been. Please roll it back

[daring trail]

Its sad to see all the scrubs come out of the woodwork because other people have similar gear now

[quartz jetty]

The gameplay loop is ruined

[plain wagon]

the only people that are royally mad about the patch are people that stacked +30 wep dmg builds and +15 all builds. everyone else could care less lol

[daring trail]

and ONLY went normal. these people never went HR with those kits

[tawny ravine]

Oh I know, I think it should have been a wipe is what I am saying. It feels like my efforts were wasted.

[daring trail]

using the logic of 'my efforts were wasted'

wouldnt a wipe also be that? id argue a wipe would be worse in terms of wasted time

[quartz jetty]

This patch made the game go from the best its been to the worst its been. Please roll it back.
The gameplay loop is completely gone

[plain wagon]

EXACTLY! the ones mad are the people that cant 1 shot everyone and actually have a threat to losing their good gear. with good gear being so replaceable, who cares, fight in it, die in it, play the game

[plain wagon]

welcome to early access, everyones efforts were wasted, not just yours. i lost like +50 magic healing worth of items, but im still playing

[daring trail]

Genuinely, this is a game that will have a wipe schedule.
If you think farming gear and it eventually being wiped is a waste of time... i have bad news for ya

[plain wagon]

are you just gonna spam this in the hopes that a dev takes pity on you? relax bud lol

[quartz jetty]

This patch made the game go from the best its been to the worst its been. Please roll it back.
The gameplay loop is completely gone

[plain wagon]

blocked lol

[tawny ravine]

True, but it levels the playing field even more which is more acceptable imo. Now it’s just here is some random purple gear that doesn’t really make sense. I don’t think people are complaining about the changes as much as the suddenness. It’s like wanting popcorn at a movie theater and getting regular corn. Some people just would rather have had nothing despite the fact it is still food.

[daring trail]

This patch made the game go from the worse its been to the best it has ever been. Please keep it like this

[plain wagon]

yoku i think we were holding conversation yesterday about the game. glad to see to see we're seeing eye to eye after dipping our toes into the patch

[quartz jetty]

Hopefully the patch is reverted. The game should reward success and the gameplay loop is eliminated now. The game went from the best its been to the worst. Please revert the patch

[plain wagon]

t_phish has to be a bot right?

[cold frigate]

stop repeating the same shit ya cry baby

[plain wagon]

dont bother the bot lol

[lime kelp]

I think a slight increase to the rewards from regular chests was fine but they buffed it way too much and you get consistent blues/purples out of lower tier chests, received better sellable from an ornate chest than I did from golden chests earlier

[tawny ravine]

I don’t see that happening. While I don’t agree with the implementation I 100% agree with the direction. Also stop spamming

[daring trail]

I guess.
Why i dont really care, is because they finally fixed "legacy gear"

So everything is changed, its not like there is people who have gear that isnt possible to get. everyone is kinda on the same level. and going from gray to an acceptable point to fight someone in purple gear, doesnt take 15 rat runs in pre-15 lobbies

[quartz jetty]

This patch is so bad. The market is so saturated with gold because its too easy to get and theres no good gear to spend it on. Please revert the patch

[eternal fable]

This patch is incredible

[plain wagon]

flooding the loot isnt bad, idk why so much of the player base thinks there can only be a limited amout of purple. let everyone be blue and purple, extra armor rolls arent as heavy handed, gimme that extra base damage and armor now, make these fights last a bit longer, make people with high end gear fear what a naked rogue might find in a dungeon

[hallow ember]

The most casual take I've heard. Have fun playing Fortnite.

[quartz jetty]

I think people that enjoy this patch don't understand the game nor have had success.
It was great before and now the gameplay loop is eliminated

[plain wagon]

you chasing leaderboards? you top 10? okay sit down you casual

[ionic mist]

how about a Poll System on discord. where the community can vote on certain changes you guys want to work on. kind of like old school runescape

[hallow ember]

Not my fault you're too much of a shitter to get gold/gear before the patch made it accessible to everyone lmaoooo

[quartz jetty]

Thats what I'm saying. People that like this patch dont understand the game and play 2 hours a week and get upset when they get killed by geared players

[lime kelp]

It’s more so the amount of money you make in a run just ruins the economy, hopping chests as a naked rogue and making 500g on ruins in 5 minutes just isn’t good for anything

[tawny ravine]

Fair enough. I like hearing these takes over the constant screaming about how everyone’s stuff is ruined

[wooden meadow]

looks like the community needs to decide who better understands the game yet

[plain wagon]

lol relax bud. i have plenty of gear. sorry i like interesting fights and actually finding gear on people i kill rather than thinking im good one shotting naked noobs

[daring trail]

This patch made the game go from the worse its been to the best it has ever been. Please keep it like this

[quartz jetty]

Yes.
This patch made the game go from the best its been to the worst its been. Please roll it back.
The gameplay loop is completely gone

[sullen vortex]

players aren't devs and in general have little insight on how to make/balance a game. plus a poll just injects massive amounts of bias.

[quartz jetty]

Fax

[daring trail]

the devs have a vision of how the game should run.
I think we are going to see something in the middle of old, and what we have currently

[covert carbon]

Anyone catch a bug with full wipe inventory?

[quartz jetty]

Enjoy being strong while being bad at the game while it lasts I'm sure itll get fixed

[daring trail]

This patch made the game go from the worse its been to the best it has ever been. Please keep it like this

[plain wagon]

yeah i agree they could nerf the treasure a bit to reduce the gold flow, but keep the gear coming

[quartz jetty]

This patch made the game go from the best its been to the worst its been. Please roll it back.
The gameplay loop is completely gone

[stone stream]

Give us an arena that other players can go to and bet on

[tawny ravine]

So you want the game to take 15 hrs until you have a good set? Basically that makes the game pay to play but with your hours instead of your wallet. It’s like your a higher leveled player some other game bouncing your axe off the skulls of level one players and feeling that’s deserved because you spent 15 hours today grinding. That’s neither healthy for the game nor for you

[lime kelp]

Yeah that’s pretty much where I’m at, more gear is fine maybe reduce the percentages slightly but also just decrease the rarity of gold sellable you find from chests below lion

[plain wagon]

Yoku, another thing about this patch i like is it should be messing up real market trades since the value of item rolls significantly reduced the value of items. its cutting back on pay to play indirectly

[quartz jetty]

This patch caters too much to nakeds. Someone in bis armor shouldn't be 2% stronger than a naked noob

[daring trail]

i like that aswell, but its not gonna stop them.
The market will 'adjust' itself at some point.
If you try and balance around these people, youll go in circles forever. You gotta get systems in place to find them and ban them

[plain wagon]

yeah im with you on that, average ~200g per run if you survive rather than ~500 per run would be fine with me. find a reason to make it easier to gear up and get into fights makes the game more fun personally. it gets people away from hiding in corners and just looting and actually puts people in a place where the gear fear is gone, lets go fight

[eternal fable]

@quartz jetty youre coping bro, i just got 1 tapped at full Hp by kumas claw. I did 10 damage to them. BiS still fks nakeds, youre just mad you cant steamroll lobbies without seeing geared enemies

[plain wagon]

only TOP TIER items will hit the trade market, so overall its cutting it down a good chunk. youll prob still see like named items and god rolls hit it

[quartz jetty]

So many casual noob takes here rn yikes

[daring trail]

indeed they are.
you can tell this person ran +2all/+3 bis kits in normal lobbies and thinks they were really good at the game

[lime kelp]

Also do luck potions even do anything 💀 I’ve tested it out a few times today and have seen like 0 increase in the rarity of shit I find

[eternal fable]

Straight up, guys just butthurt he cant statcheck everyone anymore lmfao

[daring trail]

feels better in HR. i think it was confirmed to have more affect in HR too? dont quote me

[plain wagon]

supposedly they do lol, might be used mainly for bosses

[daring trail]

but ONLY buy the big ones, the 50g ones are a waste of $

[eternal fable]

What we need are earthquake hotfix, fix the duping, and address the inflated gold coin drops. the gear availability is great, and a full set of good gear still 1-3 taps dudes that arent geared. this is a W

[lime kelp]

Earthquake is pretty crazy idk why no one talks about it

[tawny ravine]

They’re not tho, and I think that’s something people don’t understand. You could kill a geared player prior to this patch from naked gear it was just next to impossible no matter how many mistakes they made or how good you were. Now it’s like slightly easier, it’s just better to get on their level without sinking hours into the game. I appreciate working hard for what you achieve but when geared players just hunt down naked rogue because “kill make me feel good” it’s a toxic environment. There is no monetary incentive to killing a noob, so it shouldn’t be something people are doing.

[plain wagon]

i think the games in the most balanced state its been in for the past 3 months

[daring trail]

Loot quality can be toned back slightly for normal, but keep the quantity imo

[quartz jetty]

The game is more balanced than ever at the cost of ruining the game 😆

[plain wagon]

^ besides this, i was referring mainly to engaging teams and fighting

[lime kelp]

To be fair earthquake might feel strong imo to me because I mainly play ruins and it’s a lot of narrow areas to fight

[plain wagon]

we should play some Ruins sometime

[lime kelp]

[tawny ravine]

I like how you are calling everyone a noob here yet your just not engaging with the discussions. Pot meet kettle

[plain wagon]

[eternal fable]

Earthquake does 55+ damage per step. its AOE achilles strike on steroids. Definitrely need the damage toned down a lot. It is stil strong as a channeled suppression basically, which means your team gets free arrow shots to the head of the enemy. it doesnt need to 1 tap in 1 step

[tawny ravine]

Ruins is just built different

[lime kelp]

Favorite map by fair tbh just wish it had high roller

[plain wagon]

Ruins being a duo breaks up buff ball builds, and you get some fun comps to play against. truly a ruins fan here

[tawny ravine]

Same I love ruins despite its flaws.

[plain wagon]

i miss when Ruins had down portals and you went into crypts but it was hell mobs in crypts

[eternal fable]

Ruins is great, but i think it needs some changes to make it feel a bit better

[tawny ravine]

YES. I LOVE THAT THE DOWN PORTAL WAS NOT EVEN A PORTAL BUT A LOCATION PLZ BRING BAAAAACK

[plain wagon]

theyre definitely making improvements, rogues use to be able to traverse the whole map without ever touching the ground

[eternal fable]

I agree, the removal of 1 team felt great too. I just think the spawns are WAY too close. feels like reserve from tarkov. everyone runs to the nearest lions/Royal coffin and jsut fiesta coinflips

[quartz jetty]

This patch made the game go from the best its been to the worst its been. Please roll it back.
The gameplay loop is completely gone

[plain wagon]

they should make the rusty key door the way to go down, take out the rusty key in general, and make that door unlock like halfway through raid, if you wanna go down you gotta go through the door under the bridge

[lime kelp]

It’s still pretty close 😂 if my friends aren’t on I’ll just loot farm money on my rogue hopping around it’s a joke

[tawny ravine]

Something I’ve been thinking about is what if you could just keep going deeper. Like what if you started at ruins, went to crypts, then took a portal to hell if you wanted to.

[plain wagon]

i actually really enjoy the hot spots, it forces early engagements and keeps you on your toes

[plain wagon]

at least theres invis walls that prevent you from jumping room to room 10ft above everyones head

[lime kelp]

True

[daring trail]

this is IM's intial development design, and what their goal is for the game

[plain wagon]

i think that was the intention originally when they released ruins which is why it went to crypts

[tawny ravine]

I know I just hope they keep their og intentions…

[lime kelp]

Unfortunately rogue is incredibly squishy and now doesn’t do good damage with gear changes so I can’t out damage a fighter and die in two shots 💀

[plain wagon]

classes with the highest armor took the biggest buffs on this update. i think they need to carefully up rogue damage to where its viable but not busted

[tawny ravine]

Tbf fighter is a lil gear dependent rn and also isn’t the fights rogue should go for but ye. I can’t tell if fighter is broken I need to observe the current meta for a little longer but fighters are definitely the most irritated

[lime kelp]

Yeah agreed, it’s nice not seeing lobbies just filled with rogues anymore but they should also still be able to fight lol

[lime kelp]

The problem is you should never just take a straight head on fight as a rogue obviously but at the same time you aren’t as fast as you used to be so you can’t just outrun everyone anymore so hit and run doesn’t really work as well anymore

[plain wagon]

anyone think wizard meditation should get switch to mana surge or something, allowing him to recharge spells while moving for a few seconds?

[wet mortar]

They honestly should incorporate a slow natural recharge that's always occuring, and incorporate meditate into rest

[wooden meadow]

you mean like the chorale song from bard?

[lime kelp]

Just like a rechargeable clarity essentially?

[plain wagon]

yeah i forget bard has that song, i never play with bards lol

[tawny ravine]

Bard used to work like that, which I think should be the case because bards spells don’t need recovery. I don’t think a class should be able to do that alone. Frankly just revert bard why are they massacring my boi

[trail flower]

The new queues are horrible, every lobby ends with ultra geared players hunting down new players

[daring trail]

Was this not happening to you before?
did you constantly remake at level 15?

[trail flower]

I installed the game 3 days ago, previously played last year in tests

[plain wagon]

id be vibing at level 14, in green gear, hit level 15 and get spawn rushed by buff ball full bis

[quartz jetty]

Theres no point in playing when you get 500g in normals and theres nothing to spend gold on bc good gear doesn't exist.
This patch made the game go from the best its been to the worst its been. Please roll it back.
The gameplay loop is completely gone

[daring trail]

i quite literally became a "make a new char at 15" player like 3-4 days ago, because it was the only way i could play with friends.

Now its much more balanced, yes some people hunt you down, but you loot enough gear to combat them

[lime kelp]

Tbh people just need to play more and figure out how to counter shit, gear only goes so far.

[plain wagon]

yeah i think the idea of being able to move while meditating could make wiz a bit more effective (dip in dip out and still have spells incase you have to run)

[eternal fable]

i just think the spawns are too close. its ok to have hotspots on ruins, but youre fighting 2 different teams before 5 mins

[plain wagon]

yeah i was doing it just to play against people that arent pay to play winners lol. fights seemed more engaging in lower levels which was hilarious to say. it wasnt about the gear it was about having lasting fights that you actually had to know when to push and pull

[trail flower]

yes, but it was more fair when we had newer players queued mostly in sub15 queues, now when everyone in queue I just get run down while still figuring out how to effectivley kill the mobs

[daring trail]

I can sympathize with new players, because the PVE is unforgiving.
I think a training mode with various mobs to learn the PVE with is better than the 1-14 queues

[plain wagon]

similar to offline tarkov raids? learn the maps/spawns but keep nothing. i could definitely benefit from this while trying to learn goblin king. best ive gotten so far is like 9 hits on him before a door opens and it pulls my attention

[daring trail]

maybe, i dont think it necessarily needs to be a whole raid, just a 'training room' that is solo or with your party, and it has training dummies, and a spot for various enemies

either way would work, but some sort of 'training' for new players would be huge for Dex's scenario

[plain wagon]

i want boss training on gob king and the undead warden. ive seen the mechanics but actually running them is a bit different

[daring trail]

I guess im on the fence about that, but maybe that would make me a hypocrit lol

I just think bosses like that should be something that is "much harder" than the pve and not something you can freely practice

like there should be some risk for attempting those bosses. Gob king you can already do in gray kits on multiple classes

[plain wagon]

yeah that makes sense when you put it that way, there should def be a risk when running bosses

excited to see the new cyclops boss for gc

[limpid tree]

Can anyone understand they increased the cost of all warlock spells and also removed magic healing from everything? They just made the class viable and then tanked it?

[solid fractal]

It's rogue all over

Thank god though, locks these past days has been cancer

[daring trail]

warlock was not hit nearly as hard as rogue

[solid fractal]

Nah I think it's about the same

[plain wagon]

the rounded the character off, his magic healing was a bit busted and if youre thinking it wasnt then youre in denial. he can still magic heal but its not instant. the higher cost on hydra is to prevent people from spamming it as much as possible, and they removed magic healing from armor, you can still get on pendants and weapon plus in the craftable demon armor set

[daring trail]

eldritch shield needed a nerf.
you can go check out multiple streamers playing right now. Lock still heals very well. it just needs gear... like any other class

[solid fractal]

Just you wait, more nerfs inc 😉

Yeah but gear was also nerfed sooooo....

[plain wagon]

theres literally craftable gear for warlocks that they intentionally put in the game. gloves, boots chest i think, all with base stats for magic healing

[daring trail]

Like i said, just go check out any number of the streamres playing warlock rn. Its fine lmfao

[limpid tree]

@plain wagon Ah good the incredibly expesinve craftable armor and the 1k gold pendants and rings seems legit. The healing was busted but now its worthless, unless you have 4k laying around

[solid fractal]

It was same with rogue, we just didn't see one shots anymore

[plain wagon]

have you played recently? you can make 500g per ruins run in just loot and get out, the value of items isnt as taxing. buy youre tail for 1250g, craft the armor, run a few more buy another tail

it literally takes no brain to make gold now, which is better for the economy because now you can craft the things you want, you can buy the armor you want

[daring trail]

warlock wouldve gotten the same treatment IF they completely took torture mastery perk outta the game lmfaooo

[solid fractal]

I c you played rogue

[limpid tree]

Buddy if you think 1,300 for a single item to craft something isnt expensive you need to consider some people cant play for 8 hours a day every day all the time. Its unviable for casual play. Seems like poor game design if people cant enjoy the class without commiting their lives to it

[daring trail]

1300g right now, is 10x easier than 3 days ago. you dont need 8 hours a day

[plain wagon]

it literally doesnt take 8 hours anymore, 2 raids and youre close to 800g easily. you dont even have to fight, just open chest and get out. its so much easier bud. im a casual, i play like 3 hours a day if that, and i played this patch

[limpid tree]

Most people with a real job who dont live in their moms basement dont have 3 hours extra every day lol

[plain wagon]

buy a 3 magic healing book for 250g, buy +1 mag heal gloves and boots for like 50g, and youre set. sorry you cant instant heal off yourself anymore. it was busted bud

[daring trail]

Sorry brotha, but if you can only play 1 hour a day, the game shouldnt be balanced around you

[plain wagon]

i have a real job, in my own apartment, paying my own bills, by myself. your excuse doesnt apply

[limpid tree]

there isnt +3 healing on books anymore and it doesnt come on gloves and boots unless its crafted what are you talking about

[daring trail]

there is alot more casual friendly games out there, like fortnite or some shit. you can just queue, hop in, 15 mins and youre good.

HC extraction games take time

[plain wagon]

my b, youre right, my +3 mag heal books got pushed to +1. lol

[limpid tree]

You can get plus 1 on a book, rings and ammys cost 650 with magic healing each

so plus 4 total for maybe 1500 and we bumped up the spell costs and nerfed the attribute while removing access to magic healing.

[plain wagon]

i main warlock, you cant cry to me on this one. the class is better now for the state of the game. spamming hydra and healing off of it was busted, you know it, i know it. you actually have to think about when you cast

[quartz jetty]

Theres no point in playing when you get 500g in normals and theres nothing to spend gold on bc good gear doesn't exist.
This patch made the game go from the best its been to the worst its been. Please roll it back.
The gameplay loop is completely gone

[plain wagon]

as a previous wiz main, welcome to casting

[daring trail]

This patch made the game go from the worse its ever been, to the best its ever been. Please keep it like this

[limpid tree]

thats not what im debating....I didnt say it wasnt busted before. I said the fact that the class sint viable to use spells without investing 2k in to gear to function on a basic level isnt balanced. Youre argueing with yourself i never said it was balanced before

[plain wagon]

i dont think you need that much investment in the class. thats just to bring it to its highest end of lethality. you can run that class with a 500g set and still win engagements easily.

its the same as saying a ranger needs to invest in 600g kits to bring his action speed/strength up to be lethal or literally any other class

[plain wagon]

also warlocks can still use potions, campfires, cleric heals, like literally everyone else

[limpid tree]

Thats not balanced then.... thats not what balance means. If a class needs to spend 500 gold more than another class to be viable its not balanced.

[quartz jetty]

Sounds like a good change!

[plain wagon]

yikes that new discord update lol looks like gears coming back

[plain wagon]

maybe its the acquiring gold to get better stats thats the problem for you then

[daring trail]

your issue just got worse, good luck brother

[quartz jetty]

Dont worry about Horlock and Yokuzakai they just sit in this chat all day, troll, and don't play the game

[limpid tree]

How did my issue get worse? Magic healing is going back on items??? I dont think the two of you have reading comprehension levels about 4th grade

[plain wagon]

that might actually be true

[astral torrent]

weapon damage modifiers should only be found on weapons. +1 or 2 all stats should be on rings, pendants, and cloaks, while agility, strength will and other stats should be found on armor. i feel this could bring more balance and more diverse builds. every class should have a class they're scared to run into but not impossible to win against. like a wizard running into a barbarian or a fighter running into a wizard. there really shouldn't be a 1-2 hit kill meta or a one class to rule them all. just an idea

[daring trail]

haha you think youll be able to farm 1300g with your 1-2 hours a day now? like i said, good luck

[plain wagon]

500g set breaks down into
50g head
50g chest
50g legs
50g gloves
50g boots
100g cape
50g spellbook
50g weapon
50g in heals

i dont think thats really all that bad bud

[limpid tree]

You wont need 1,300 gold for one item if the changes are rolling back....Like i said reading comprehension. I wont have a problem now. Holy shit lol

[plain wagon]

if you cant afford a 500g set, maybe thats the issue?

[limpid tree]

No i can....I cant afford 2k...I can't with the two of you

[plain wagon]

lol then stop crying and play the game

[daring trail]

this change doesnt affect the price of the crafting items you mentioned lul

[limpid tree]

You wont need to craft them, if the changes are reverting and the stats are going back on the items they were before

[vocal lodge]

can you translate 9:00 AM UTC on October 5th. into NY time

[daring trail]

5am

[plain wagon]

google can lol

[hollow grotto]

its 5am est

[quartz jetty]

They're greylocked trolls lol

[vocal lodge]

just 1 hour after i went to sleep! NICE!!!

[plain wagon]

you could always farm centaur tails yourself so you dont have to buy them bud

[granite plinth]

good job killing your game

[daring trail]

is leaderboards starting with the next "hotfix"? cuz DaD is dead until next wipe

[honest marten]

But no other class uses their health to cast and continuously gets themselves closer to death.

For warlock to be viable, idk about the 2k this guy mentioned, but 2 perks and 2 spells are a minimum. Torture mastery and Vampirism are basic requirements.

Not easy though, sustain like that can be hard to balance.

[vocal lodge]

archer still heal while moving having one of the most dps in game. almost 2 bars of health and range weapons in untouchable by melee characters

[quartz jetty]

W HOTFIX

[granite plinth]

Wow the really screwed up. The last hot fix was great and I enjoyed having money

[plain wagon]

thats why magic heal items are in the game and craftable (not easily craftable but good gear shouldnt be).
swap some spells around, use siphon a bit more for heals instead of spamming curse of pain at 10% health and 2sec later being max health while still gaining health. its not that bad

[mellow glen]

seems like alot ppl hate this +2 AA gear and 1-2 shoot mechanics but i would rather buff defences in game instead nerfing DMG .
Defences and Life should be much easier to build up than dmg , So weak ppl will have much easier time to run away and survive aganist juiced team.
Like 3 STR gives 6 life .... and gear roll like +5 life modifier that make no sense . 3 STR vs 5 life roll its not equal .... in this case + life mod should roll up to 24 if it has to be equal comparing to STR roll dont even talk about +2AA . Some mods then be revaulated becsaue their value cant compete with others . Same for armour roll its too low

[honest marten]

And idk if I would put them as the best example of balanced. Lol.

[granite plinth]

So they really rolled everything back and I have nothing now. What really bad decision to rollback

[plain wagon]

lol i love that i sold all my good gear just for them to roll it back 12 hours later

[granite plinth]

Why are they doing a roll back no one asked for that.

[plain wagon]

a LOT of people are crying about no longer having meta gear builds

[granite plinth]

So once again they listen to streamers

[vocal lodge]

what are you talking about look at this mess??

[plain wagon]

squeaky wheels get the grease

[granite plinth]

What mess? I made more money and had more even fights than ever

[honest marten]

It’s very bad honestly. Now we have yet another requirement for sustaining the ability to use the class, and it’s a horrible spell to begin with. It’s like asking to be killed because you have to stand still. Everyone with ranged gets free hits and the second you sat there you lost any healing potential to the damage you just took.

[mellow glen]

i think its more about duping thing economy its contaminated they need fix and reverse that

[vocal lodge]

yeah you made fictitious money. cause items are being dupped you trollling right?

[plain wagon]

i dont think its meant for fights unless you have a good front line that can hold down while you siphon for a few seconds. its worse than it was but it breaks the meta of hydra spamming/healing

[granite plinth]

Who cares about the dupes they gear stats were finally fixed and people will lose the stuff anyways

[vocal lodge]

yeah gear stats are fine now. thats ok for me. it will be rolledback after the update. not before that items balance will remain the same

[honest marten]

But nerfing everything else about the class is not the way to address a problem specifically delegated to hydra spamming.

[plain wagon]

its very similar to how a wizard runs out of spells and is forced to literally sit down

[calm orbit]

Just wipe the game, dont back to previous patch. I lost 10k+ too. Kids crying bcs without their GOD-LIKE items they cant fight...

[spice jasper]

let us pet the cats

[granite plinth]

I like how they are worried about wasting streamers time and effort. What about my time and effort last night

[plain wagon]

i agree, its not the BEST possible fix, but its a fix none the less to get it out of lobbies. the buffs will come back. its okay

[strange badger]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/497398/balance-add-damage-modifiers-for-faster-weapons-around-percent-damage-modifiers-#comment558909

This suggestion is to lower "additional" damage modifiers. By the numbers I gave, I make percentage damage increases like physical power optimal for heavier hitting weapons, while faster weapons technically scaling better like what exists in the current model is still maintained slightly.

On top of reducing the power of "additional" damage modifiers I also addressed another issue: having fewer potential rolls: 1 or 2 additional damage, for example, increases the probability of rolling top damage numbers. The percent modifiers, however, have a wider range of rollable numbers. By the law of large numbers, a smaller range of possible rolls means it takes a lot less investment to find everything you need for a kit of high-rolled equipment and it's easier to intentionally diverge significantly higher than the average roll.

To solve this last issue I propose that they add a wider range of possible rolls. Again, in summary, this makes it harder to put together a full kit of the max roll of the modifier. And brings people who try to build a really strong kit closer to the average of what the rolls will give them.

[granite plinth]

Just give everyone 3k gold and no gear

[plain wagon]

would you rather this, or a 10second cooldown on hydra?

[scenic leaf]

doesnt matter when a ranger one shots you from across the map still

[hollow grotto]

idk what happened that was supposed to spawn players further apart or somethiing but I was at spawn point for like 5 seconds and heard a player, they were geared and just coming to spawn kill me, I had nothing so I just figured why waste my time and let them kill me

[strange badger]

Honestly IMO this gets at the heart of the issue a bit. Personally I don't care whether survivability is buffed or damage is nerfed, personally I think a bit of both would be preferrable.

The real issue increased damage rolls have is that they aren't balanced with other modifiers. They stand out as just better than the other modifiers. They go further than any other modifiers. IM needs to stop trying to pull everything back or magnify everything, and balance things individually a little bit more. Some enchantments are just too unimpactful, while others are too impactful.

[quartz jetty]

This patch is a win people stop whining omg

[daring trail]

Yep, in order for this game to feel good the TTK needs to be longer than 1-2 shot.
Unfortunately with random modifiers reverting, we are back in the 1-2 shot meta

[vale vector]

Can we stop caring about the fucking leaderboards like come on bro this patch one of the best ones they did if you dont like you just bad game going to die if we only care about leaderboards

[honest marten]

Probably a 10 second cooldown, though I'd find it strange as it'd be the only class with a cooldown on a spell as far as I'm aware.

[daring trail]

yea i dont understand the whole leaderboard thing when they cant even balance correctly lol

[plain wagon]

should be able to break enchannted weapons/armors, pick one of the traits you want, and apply it to another weapon/armor (1 time every hour or something like that for balancing issues) but that would allow you to kinda kit your own armor

[granite plinth]

I demand gold compensation

[plain wagon]

itd be like a judgement or something similar, press to use, wait for cooldown

[honest marten]

But I don't even think magical healing should go right back to where it was. I just think softcapping it at 2 or 3 at the old rate and then decreasing anything past that to the new rate is ideal.

[granite plinth]

Why should average folks lose everything and the rich stay rich with the rollback? Give everyone a large sum

[unreal ore]

furry race when ?

[honest marten]

I mean, barb sees a softcap with str so why not do the same with TM healing? They are already familiar with the concept.

[granite plinth]

We already have orc

[plain wagon]

im okay with bringing back +2 mag healing or even +3, but i like that its not on every piece of gear. weaps/rings/pends. that seems like enough to kinda get you by. anymore than that is overkill

[unreal ore]

Its not furry 🤔

[granite plinth]

His balls are

[plain wagon]

pretty sure lizard men are next. thats kinda like a furry?

[unreal ore]

More like scalie, but that would be cool too

[granite plinth]

u can keep your shards, just do the rollback already omfg

[plain wagon]

last Q&A mentioned lizard people and leaked a new map, so pretty sure the next map enemies will be lizard men

[strange badger]

Personally I think the damage numbers in patch 1 went in the right direction: 1 add damage instead of 1-2 for minor modifiers, and 1-2 add damage instead of 1-3 for major modifiers. They pulled add damage back and honestly it made it more balanced with the other modifiers but was still for the most just better.

They reverted the change with the reason that gear didn't feel as impactful as they wanted it to, but IMO the add damage gear still felt impactful, what they needed to do from there to make gear feel as impactful as it should have been IMO is to bring up the other modifiers, not revert it all back.

Frankly there's another problem with add damage modifiers though: they have fewer possible rolls than other modifiers and thus a higher chance to roll perfectly which makes it a lower investment, to build a kit of perfectly rolled equipment.

They either need to increase the number of possible rolls with in-between numbers, or decrease the number of possible rolls for other modifiers. They also shouldn't be afraid of rational (non-integer) numbers when it comes to balancing. Our minds liking integer values is a poison sometimes. You can't balance a scale with a stone weighing 1.3 kilograms on one side if you only use integer kilogram weights on the other side.

[unreal ore]

Nice, that's cool ! Cant wait to see it :)

[plain wagon]

ill send it to you rn

[granite plinth]

I want gold compensation or I’ll sue

[honest marten]

Not a fan of it because it makes magical healing even more rare. It's kinda the only way that you start to have lift off and character options for warlock. Vampirism and Torture mastery are base requirements and only after magical healing has been acquired can you switch vamp for something else. Just my thoughts though,

[plain wagon]

i really hope they dont bring back +2/3 all atti

[honest marten]

Yeah, +1 max for all att is fine.

[granite plinth]

They should bring back the McRib

[plain wagon]

im with you, im just trying to think of a fair way to not have magic healing on every piece of equipment. idk if youve fought a warlock as a warlock and you both have +8 magic healing, but its just dumb lol

wep damage should cap +2 and be on select items, +2 magic healing should be the cap and it should be restricted, + additional damage is another concern because its basically extra wep dmg. things that you can put +2 of the same thing on every piece of equipment is whats broken. restrict which types of gear can get which types of enchantments for armor/weps and youll slow down the some of the gameplay and create new types of builds for people to play

[chilly estuary]

why is this game so buggy rn i cant pick up items when they are dropped on my fighter im ghost hitting on people or hitting walls that arent even there when players are right infront of me

[plain wagon]

like last night, wep dmg got busted into pieces, so rangers were stacking action speed to get more arrows off. thats just an adjustment youd have to make. it works tho

[chilly estuary]

people keeping gear when they escaping

[strange badger]

Personally I think the problem is that people were finding a lot of the modifiers that were left on equipment that couldn't have add damage and magic healing modifiers to be unimpactful.

It made people feel like gear didn't matter except for the equipment pieces that could roll the good stuff, and that the equipment pieces that could roll the good stuff were garbage if they didn't have those modifiers on them.

To me this emphasizes the issue that they need to balance modifiers to other modifiers better.

[plain wagon]

or allow you to break some items with the modifiers you want, so you can apply them to your equipment and create better rolled gear for yourself. could be an interesting type of change

[honest marten]

I have. Lol. Soft capping is the best way to deal with that imo. Just saying 2 or 3 magical healing is the ideal amount and past that is diminishing returns makes people incentivized to diversify stats. Just opening up magical healing on items and pushing them in a direction after achieving the base helpful and maximized healing is good imo. But also, blow of corruption has helped me win those fights. Just stops the healing but requires a risky play generally. But the sustain helps negate the risk. Since people have been running phantomize, they don’t expect the head bop and heal nerf. That healing reduction is no laughing matter.

[grizzled tartan]

Hear me out, but put patterns like the stars and stuff in capes

[strange badger]

I'd be fine if they did keep the specific modifiers to specifiic gear pieces, but in doing so I think they would need to significantly improve some of the modifiers that could be found on the gear that didn't have them.

[plain wagon]

yeah that makes sense, i gotta start running blow specifically for warlock fights. had a rogue partner for a bit that was using cut throat to silence them and then it was easier

[plain wagon]

i back this statement. if youre gonna put wep damage on only weps and shields, at least make it worth it

[honest marten]

Silences are a great counter. Was running bard with the silence ability and warlocks did not know what to do when I sprint at them and they can’t cast. Lol.

[plain wagon]

yeah you just die at that point, cant phantom or anything, you just gotta hope we miss a few swings long enough to get a wep out

anyone got an opinion on if they should allow trading at level 10 again since level <15 lobbies no longer exist?

[vocal lodge]

ok phoenix choker ahaha what !! thats kinda bdsm

[calm orbit]

true. Again so stupid decision. They should just wiped the game after prev patch.

[vocal lodge]

oh no the choker yamate kudasai uwu

[strange badger]

I've thought about this. Level 15 trading was introduced to keep good gear out of <15 lobbies. Without <15 lobbies there's no need for trading to be at level 15, it just hurts more to grind levels.

It's funny when a change is made because it needs to be made to fascilitate another change, then the second change gets reverted, which was the reason the first change was made in the first place, but the first change is left as is. It always feels like the Dev's just forgot why they did something in the first place when it happens.

[calm orbit]

true.

[plain wagon]

im sure it got overlooked, but yeah definitely should bring it back down since theres no reason for it anymore

[thorny forge]

the newest gear change was pretty fun imo, fighting actually felt like it was a fight instead of running into other geared players and fighting to see who gets 3 shot first. dont roll back the game 💯

[worn agate]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/499755/get-rid-of-all-legacy-items

[tender seal]

No it wasn't.

It was added to slow down the ability of "people who trade for money that's real" trading during the first couple of days of an accounts life

[small furnace]

@daring trail I wish I didn't call it, but I did. If I'm reading that announcement right they're reverting everything good lmfao.

The game is unplayable right now too, who wants to play when everything is just gonna get rolled back?

[daring trail]

The servers might aswell be offline right now lol.

Man i really hope it is a middle ground revert, and not just straight up back to +2all/3 stats

At the end of the day though, IF they keep loot the same, the gear reverting isnt the end of the world. atleast competing with that gear will be easier

[floral totem]

Today for the first time after 3 months, i DID NOT get shotted by a purple Longsword with Blow of corruption as a fighter. I'm proud of you devs

[ocean storm]

Ranking system - to connect players with a similar rank in match making

[ebon idol]

Reroll incoming, oneshot will come back

[floral totem]

Why

[ebon idol]

Because. Idk, ask devs. But look into #📢announcements . Loot and balancing is gonna be rolled back

[nova mango]

for the love of god, dont give all the shitters, including me, their bis back. legacy items are the biggest cancer in this game. instead slowly but steadily nerf it and only nerf the new items to go along with it.

[outer lotus]

Nah its too easy without it. I want to kill stacked teams and take their shit with a challenge

[formal grove]

What about item level based matchmaking, depending on the lvl of gear you and your team is bringing in the dungeon?

[nova mango]

nah, just make gear disparity less of a cliff

[gleaming gust]

Make curse of weakness more knowledge and health expensive, but make it a dedicated slow so mage lock can exist? Nvm i think flame walker is supposed be the warlocks melee deterrent i should try that

[eager creek]

I think the gear scores on items should be severly squished together - like damage bonuses should only move 1 point for higher grades, and let gear rarity just have extra modifiers on it. That way a green kitted player has a chance at fighting someone in full purples (depending on what extra modifiers they got)

[nimble kettle]

is the game up and running ?

[orchid zodiac]

suggestion: buff rogue

[astral basalt]

Stop rollbacks.... WIPE with EVERY patch

If thats weekly... so be it. you can level to 20 in a single day.

[summer drift]

I agree

I liked the change to update legacy items. I lost a bunch of gear but it evens the playing field

I think giving people 5 blue shards was more than enough compensation

[abstract swallow]

keeping legacy items is cancer, I would rather them wipe literally every update than go back to "sweatsquads have +3 all jewelry a month after they were removed"
it completely kills any joy in geared play and makes the gear diff problem worse for no benefit

[buoyant wren]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/499777/the-rollback-to-october-5th-is-too-far-roll-back-to-october-6th-at-10-am-utc

[small furnace]

Well they hit the chests with the revert, idk how hard yet but they literally made it so nobody could have possibly benefitted from yesterday as a result.

[dapper seal]

Yep, I reaplu liked having limited +all and weapon damage.

[outer lotus]

You really think they reverted the loot completely? Not just slightly? If not slightly its some bs. New looting was feeling amazing

[small furnace]

Nah I don't know one way or the other. I'm just jaded because the devs have a habit of making good changes and then reverting them one day later.

[abstract swallow]

new looting was way overblown, but a step more in the right direction than wrong

[outer lotus]

I really hope not, i played one high roller naked rogue run and came out with 500 in trinkets, a cape, and like 600+ of stuff to sell lmao

[small furnace]

It would be cool to just be able to ignore trade chat. They killed the economy anyway so I really don't want anything to do with it anymore. This update was good for that: ignoring trade chat and just playing the game.

[daring trail]

we will see what slightly reduced quantity means. it possible its not too bad

[outer lotus]

They better have kept legendaries in non hell high roller

[tame gyro]

this might just be shouting in the wind, but i feel like the devs need to let their patches stick for at least a few days to get actual concrete data. I dont see how day 1 knee jerk community reactions provides anything meaningful in trying to find balance

[small furnace]

We'll see, just hard for me to have faith in the devs. They just can't seem to stick with a good change.

[outer lotus]

They didnt do it becuase the community didnt like the patch, they unleashed a crazy dupe glitch with it that would ruin it for everyone

[tame gyro]

gotcha, but a lot of stuff is being reverted in this patch as well it sound like. dupe glitches def need to be fixed asap though

[outer lotus]

Yeah true they couldve just fixed the dupe glitch and gathered more data, what am i saying

[stray musk]

Dude, when they gonna remove the fucking SPEAR SKELETON

[cobalt root]

I find the axe skeletons more annoying - almost impossible to avoid taking damage from them

[void lava]

Took me an month and a few weeks lol

[short heath]

Quantity going down is bad. Keep quantity as is, rarity go down in no-ante. Change loot table for NPCs to have more/higher chance of crafting materials. Problems mostly solved, but economy still screwed because abundance of gold without gold sinks.

[small furnace]

Last patch gear fear was at an all time low though. More people I knew were talking about trying HR because they didn't mind risking it all due to them having the ability to get it all back real quickly.

[narrow snow]

Nuke the discord and reddits. Will be good for game and community

[short heath]

Yeah, the goal is to maintain that while incentivizing the most people into running HR as possible. Lowering quantity and keeping rarity the same, especially for no-ante maps, is going to make it harder for people to get gear progression naturally. If you keep quantity the same but lower rarity in no-ante maps, you maintain more incentive to run HR for players who formerly would gear up then run no-ante for less risky money-making while simultaneously allowing natural gear progression to happen for the more casual players, especially ones that don't want to sit in trade forever.

[split estuary]

🇷 🇪 🇲 🇴 🇻 🇪 🇹 🇷 🇦 🇩 🇪 🇵 🇴 🇸 🇹 🇦 🇩 🇩 🇦 🇺 🇨 🇹 🇮 🇴 🇳 🇭 🇴 🇺 🇸 🇪

[small furnace]

I think the rarity was more important than the quantity.

Realistically getting a blue is great because you have 2 chances for one of the rolls to not be a dead roll. Greens are far too inconsistent, you can go through 20+ greens and not fine one suitable for use.

Getting the chance to loot through 10+ blues each match meant you were likely to get at least one good piece of gear each match. Which is a good thing, or at least it felt like it.

[short heath]

Not at all, and that's evidenced by trade going to absolute hell during the last past. Quantity is what made it easier to get natural upgrades, because there's a higher chance for a piece of gear to appear that is at least usable by your class. Rarity just added a potential random mod to that piece of gear. And because of the hyper-inflated economy, trade was abysmal.

[small furnace]

I'll be real with you I've given up on trade being good. I just don't touch it anymore. It isn't worth my time spending half an hour to try and get someone to buy a purple with half decent modifiers. Trade is not going to be good going down the path they want to go down, and going down that path I'd be cool with them segregating the queues into trade and non-trade, because at this point trade is so pointless and trivial that only the people with hours and hours to spend in it are going to be benefitting.

[short heath]

You gotta maintain natural gear progression while also pushing people to HR. Not pushing them to trade for decent upgrades after finding 20 dead greens and selling collectibles.

[woeful parcel]

Get rid of +1 All

[quartz jetty]

Stop whining

[short heath]

I absolutely agree. Trade is a wash as they've made it, and that was made even more apparent during last patch. Gear was abundant and it still was a terrible experience to try to trade, and not even because of the inflated gold economy. Literally because people were trying to sell greens and blues with dead stats on them.

[small furnace]

Yeah I missed the last patch. Currently it seems like people only buy AMAZING rolls. If I find something that has +1all and +1str that's like... a decent roll. It's not a dead roll it's decent, it's not the best but it isn't bad. Previously I could sell something like that for 100g easily, but this patch if it doesn't have +1 all +5 Wep damage and +3 Additional damage you're not gonna be selling it for anything more than 50g, and you have to wait a LOOONG time for someone to come settle for that.

Like gear just feels worthless. If it doesn't have god rolls on it and it isn't for my class then I leave it in chests. Hence why last update felt good cause it updated quantity and quality so there was less of a chance of things being useless to me.

[short heath]

Yep. I don't even pick up blues unless both rolls are S or A tier if the piece isn't for my class. I'll still pick up any blue+ for my class just because I'm not a min-maxer anymore (too old for that now, I used to be as a teen/young adult) and put it to good use in the current or future runs.

[indigo olive]

after the game is out of early access can we stop wiping items?

[abstract anchor]

Where can we get the player count and is it dropping ?

[abstract swallow]

player count is pretty much where it is a week into every wipe

[hushed cedar]

if my +all/+dmg stats rerolled into str/agi instead of magical interaction i wouldn't have mind

[void wedge]

The game will realistically need a healthy wipe cycle even after early acess, but it should be a defined cycle.

[hushed cedar]

hell no

[crisp quiver]

please delet +all atr and + dmg on armour bullshit, game was doing great we just need another interesting rolls on items and a reduced gear droppin % chance and lower gold/ run, also keep some armour enchant only happen on purple+ gear

[abstract swallow]

they did
+all is gutted to only +1, weapon damage is still limited
those were the two biggest offenders

[strange badger]

I find I sell all my loot pretty quickly in trade chat. I typically start high depending on the piece, somewhere between 100 and 300 gold, perhaps higher for really good pieces. tick down by 20 gold increments every 5 seconds and trade doesn't take you more than a few minutes to clear out a few good pieces. Sure you give things at bargain deals but a decent many are not and it's quite profitable.

[crisp quiver]

nah we go back to +1 all meta, hoard items until you complete a set. its very boring

[abstract swallow]

+1 all is reasonably healthy since they're keeping the +2~4 single attribute rolls

[worn agate]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/499755/get-rid-of-all-legacy-items

[final mirage]

when you search to someone , i like to can press ENTER and search console found to find him

[crisp quiver]

+1 benefits too much some classes like bard and warlock, they make those unbalanced when many stat is stacked. We need class specific like block damage, projectile speed bonus, healing small shield apply... those that can benefit a particular class. To exist one particular enchant that is best for all classes is not balanced non fun

[final mirage]

Other suggestion , is build a little village with the merchants in a little market and use the Tabern to enter to the map and Search the match.

[abstract swallow]

how does it benefit hybrid classes 'too much'? they have the same stat pool as everyone else and aren't benefitting from statstacking like other classes do, which they can do 3-4x better now with straight single stat rolls

[crisp quiver]

duel a warlock and a fighter +15 strenght bonus, then duel them +15 all atri bonus. Outcome will be different

[abstract swallow]

I shoot both in the head once with a crossbow and win
this post brought to you by the ranger gang

[neat prawn]

Why would you buff chest then nerf it overnight, looting was in the best spot it had ever been yesterday, you didn't have to rush the good loot room cuz u could loot out of any room and get a ok amount of loot, ontop of because it was chest meta. Less players rushing to pvp spawn cuz getting loot off the map was possible, you revert it overnight because of a dupe bug that had nothing to do with it. And now u just make it back to pvp spawn rushing meta, cuz u get more money off killing a geared player than the map now :/ like whats the point in dropping updates if u take them away before its even live for 24 hours because of a bug that had nothing to do with it. There is 0 way you got accurate data on chest meta in 18 hours it was up, because the server got inflated with gold because of a dupe bug. So u nerf the legit way of earning gold? Honestly shit dev decision

[abstract swallow]

chest looting was hyper-bloated and you know it bud
anyone that actually knows how to loot and doesn't die to PvE had literally thousands of gold within hours of starting post-patch

[neat prawn]

so what ur saying is we should all be fighting for 1 room?, becaue before this patch there was only maybe 3 rooms per map worth looting

[abstract swallow]

Yes.
Also of course there wasn't, on the real map there's like 5 minibosses and a dozen multi-large chest rooms lmao

[crisp quiver]

this speeded patches for 1 day that changes game so much in on direction... not good for the players. Even that we needed more time with this patch they reverted becouse people crying about their +2 atri hoarding gear deleted....

[neat prawn]

ah yes the map that if u dont have 2 extra players on u just die? or have to afk in the shadows until ur alone

[abstract swallow]

skill issue, solo crypts is perfectly viable and always has been

[neat prawn]

yes go fight barb ball and tell me solo crypt is viable

[abstract swallow]

already have, it still is

[neat prawn]

keep lying to yourself

[rugged summit]

Solo crypts is absolutely viable.

[neat prawn]

yes if u just afk around the geared teams its viable

[rugged summit]

Not quite, yes it's a slower playstyle, but shy shouldn't it be? it's a teams map.

[neat prawn]

if u run into a actual team comp u just lose, even the rank 1s didnt fight barb balls last wipe when solo crpyting

[short heath]

Gang gang

[rugged summit]

If you try to openly fight a 3 man team? Yes you're likely to lose. Don't do that.

[neat prawn]

thats not the original discussion. 4head pay attention

[abstract swallow]

this is pure cope, AntiBall has been the countermeta since PT4 and Repoze/Kenobi/etc all have tons of content showing them stomping multiple teams solo in lobbies

[rugged summit]

The discussion is whether or not you can actually play crypts solo. You can. You just have to play differently.

[neat prawn]

also not the discusion, are you on crack

nerfing chest meta after not even being out for 20 hours because of server gold inflation that was caused by a duplication glitch, is a underhand reaction to something that wasnt a problem. you shouldnt have to all fight for 3 loot rooms. other than boss and hoards, regular loot areas should be viable, otherwise this just turns back to pvp meta where we all just rush spawns

[granite plinth]

whats wrong with crack ?

[burnt dome]

Silentnight got only 7 gold in his coffer

[short heath]

Antiball works, sure. But it's 100% a skill difference that allows people at that level to win a 1v3 vs a buffball.

[abstract swallow]

as it should be, winning a 1v3 should always be about an exploited advantage/skill diff

[short heath]

The argument is disingenuous on your half if you're saying buffball is 1v3-able, and always has been, if you're automatically assuming a difference in skill between players. You're favoring the solo when the assumption should be even skilled players, especially when speaking towards the average playerbase.

[abstract swallow]

1v3 being viable and solo crypts being viable are two different things tbh

[neat prawn]

all im saying is they nerfed chest meta because of gold inflation that was caused by a bug while also reverting the gold that made it inflated but then nerfed the actual way of making money legit without giving proper time to test how much gold chest meta was bringing in, without a dupe bug, i understand the need for a fast hotfix because of a dupe bug, ofc but to also nerf legit money making method's in less than a day of releaseing them?, they have no actually data from the last day on how much gold was being introduced into the market with the chest meta. because of the dupe bug inflating the gold drastically, people were litterally buying armor for 300 then selling it for 1250 yesterday because the dupe bug made so much gold that gold didnt matter. and they go and nerf the actual farming method with no data on it since the dupe bug and chest meta were going on at the same time, that isnt balancing thats just overreacting to gold being in the market and nerfing your update based on bugs

[civic turret]

Chests were giving so much items it wasnt even worth carrying any purples requip out with you only items for the collector. Loot needs to be rare enough to make finding for it feel rewarding, to motivate attacking another player to try to take theirs. The same reason adding so much gear and so much above green to merchants was a mistake it kills the item trade economy.

[neat prawn]

i understand that, but thats wasnt because of the amount of items in the chest that was because of the quality of items in the chest. if all those items you were getting were cracked flawed it wouldnt have been a issue. the issue was you could fill your entire inventory on blue Collector items

[lyric yew]

YEA?

[short heath]

They don't give two shits about the economy. The game is in EA. They're trying to balance class viability before anything at this point for trios, because they've recognized how much of a problem buffball and overtuning was.

[civic turret]

they have to have some idea how important the econ is to extending the playability lifecycycle of the game, its building up to better gear and then getting a few runs on that high gear that keeps it interesting, if you can max out your gear from every 1 1/2 - 2 1/2 runs it kind of gets old fast ,even though its the same gameplay regardless

[abstract swallow]

onyx is actually right
they've outright said in the patch notes they're testing changes for baseline class balance/functionality and for how gear accessibility/power affects TTK and player gearing
this is all just testing, they don't care about the economy or actual balance, especially when we're still pre-season 1

[neat prawn]

cuz a single decent purp was worth more than a inventory of cracked flawed. its the quality of items that were dropping that could be argued that was causing a issue. but @short heath u cant say they dont care about the economy they literally reverted everyone a day because of a dupe bug that only so many players used, i still dont even know what the dupe bug was

[short heath]

They care about getting accurate data. You cannot get accurate data with an economy that has been affected by a dupe bug. Hence they reset and try again.

[abstract swallow]

I mean just look at the gradual, mostly indirect changes that have hit cleric and ranger
both classes are at healthy play and extraction rates, and are performing close to where they want them to in a more final product, despite the "community"'s endless sobbing about it

[neat prawn]

i agree but you as you said you cannot get accurate data with a dupe bug going. back to what i said b4 they had 0 accurate data on chest meta

[short heath]

Brother, that is why they are reverting.

[neat prawn]

idgaf about the revert we all know that was needed, all i care about is the nerf to chest with 0 data

[abstract swallow]

what are you even arguing about then lmao

[neat prawn]

i agree it may have been a little over the top, but they have 0 accurate data on it because of hte dupe bug

[abstract swallow]

you didn't need to see data to know the chest buff was way overtuned, the previous chest buff was clearly meant to come after way more internal testing

[short heath]

They still got relevant data, just not as accurate as they'd like. You can still draw a conclusion based on that data even if it is skewed.

[neat prawn]

go read the patch again, the quality of items was the issue, and they nerfed quantity

so your still gona make the same 400 gold off 1 inventory, its just gonna take more chest to do it

[graceful tangle]

@dusky fulcrum

[short heath]

I can tell you've literally never been a playtester before.

[neat prawn]

i can tell you literally have no clue what your talking about lmfao

[short heath]

30+ years doing this. Yep. Nooooo idea.

[granite plinth]

wouldn't it fix the new character abuse problem if your queue was based on overall account dungeon clears instead of a specific character's? an experienced player on a level 1 is going to do leagues better than a player's first level 15 I'd reckon...

[neat prawn]

yes thats why your with them on quantity nerfs even tho quality was the issue, getting a full inventory off 3 rooms is not a problem if they are cracked flawed items, only worth 100-200 gold. the quality of items all being green blue purple causeing your inventory of jewels to be worth 400+ is the issue and that wasnt touched

[short heath]

Read anything I've said. Please. Actually search my name and read what I've said about the patch.

[neat prawn]

im g im not gonna waste my time looking for it, if your on the same page and thing quality was the issue then why even speak dog. and if u think quantity was the issue ur on crack

[short heath]

Then don't make room temp IQ assumptions about my stances.

[neat prawn]

then dont type like a idiot talking about something you know literally nothing about.

[pallid patio]

re: the economy and duped items... What about Legacy items? It seems very clear to me based on the patch notes that there will be NEW legacy items this patch becase they are 1. Reverting to Oct 5, 9am, 2. making some yet undisclosed nerfs to items stats..... This means any stat they nerf will create a whole host of legacy items that are going to be sold for massively inflated amounts in trade. Basically if they decide to remove +2all there will be a shitload of +2 legacy items

[abstract swallow]

I assume they're just forcing items to have the same stats in the new value ranges

[wooden meadow]

they will remove legacy items eventually. they just won't do it as they did 24h ago: without notice

[abstract swallow]

also they did confirm that there's a next upcoming wipe before or after leaderboards, so we'll probably see a more specific policy on legacy items after that

[pallid patio]

I see Legacy items in game as a problem about 100x times worse than losing some stats without notice. There will be ZERO meangingful data until they reroll or delete legacy items

[wooden meadow]

they agree and so they will do it.

[idle tartan]

they should do wipes every other week for a bit so that we get on a schedule and it doesnt feel as wierd

[pallid patio]

i'm just hoping there is a language barrier in the patch notes and they aren't knowingly creating more legacy items. Either make no changes or fully make the change, don't half-ass it. Legacy items have zero reason to exist in any universe.

[abstract swallow]

I would rather have them wipe literally every hotfix than leave legacy items
I do not want to have to collect +3 All jewelry again

[grave urchin]

legacy items will still go away. But the specific roll on the armor will still be there (value of the roll might change though - +2 all becomes +1 all)

[abstract swallow]

they better, or I'm gonna start making a compilation of vendoring legacy items the same way I made a compilation of spawncamping during PT3

[winter bison]

I want no trade mode!!! separate people who hasent* opted in as traders from the pay to wins!!!

[rigid prawn]

realized this is probably good to post here lol

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/499796/lower-cost-of-hr-based-on-a-gearscore-system-while-also-raising-lr-cost-on-a-spe

[short heath]

They specifically said that they will be reverting, but to a point between when +3 all was a thing and the most recent patch. Read their announcements more closely.

[grave urchin]

it says similar to patch 14. Not the same

also says this
All Attributes was limited to a maximum of 1.

[short heath]

Yes, so at a level of stats on gear that isn't quite as insane as +3all, but also not as nerfed into the ground as we just saw.

[strange badger]

Technically this is wrong. The dupe bug was that the game wasn't saving anything really, you log out and you didn't keep any progress. So people could use a set of equipment they had, relog, and have that equipment back. Everybody who got the duped equipment would lose it when they relogged. Or people could give away tons of really good stuff and it would all be back in their inventory when they relogged. But again everything that they gave away was gone when the people they gave it to logged off.

Technically any damages done by the dupe bug issue is already resolved the moment they take down the servers: all the duped loot would disappear and only the original piece would be there. The reason they're reverting everyone a day is because they decided they didn't like the route they took with hotfix 15 by putting specific item enchantments on specific item slots only and are reverting that change. At least that's my opinion on the topic.

I might be wrong about the dupe bug being fixed by a rollback, or they might have a different dupe bug that's being problematic I got this wrong, but this is what I understand of how it is working.

[grave urchin]

my bad. Misread your message

[pallid patio]

so ignoring the toxic response this just isn't clear and doesn't answer my question. Legacy items will exist in new patch?

[wooden meadow]

they are bringing back the items "in some form" they existed before the patch 24h ago. to what extent we don't know. these items with those rolls will be able to drop in the dungeon as well. so I wouldn't call them legacy items

they are legacy items from our POV, because they can't drop now.

[grave urchin]

it isn't clear if new drops will have the adjusted rolls. Being no more of a specific stat on certain equipment type

[fast lily]

From what it sounds like, they won't be legacy with the adjusted drop changes they're making at the same time of the rollback, as well as adjusting the rolls on the old gear so it's not as OP.

[pallid patio]

Really it's just a question of this line: "All Attributes was limited to a maximum of 1.". Does that mean for ALL ITEMS or just newly dropped items. I guess we'll find out soon enough. But if +2all items are still around in people's inventory but NOT in the dungeon or merchant then that is super fucked

[wooden meadow]

we have to wait. but probably they are simply keeping the rolls and the scale, but adjust the scale in total. so when you had +5 wpn dmg before, and it was the max. wpn dmg you could roll on that item. e.g. it now could be +3 wpn dmg, since this is the new max roll

[short heath]

As far as stat values are concerned, they will probably just do a middle ground... if +3 all patch is a 10 and the most recent patch is a 1, they'll place random modifier values between a 4-6 on that 10-point scale based on what they said.

[short heath]

Legacy items will not be a thing in my interpretation of their announcement.

[sturdy sandal]

Not sure if that has been suggested but can we please get a damage report at the end of games? Even a death recap?

[cerulean kestrel]

Weapon damage and magic damage back 🤮

[neat hearth]

WOW GRINDING GAME IS BACK
NO LIFER CITY LETS GO
SUCH GOOD GRINDING GAME I LOVE GRINDING AND LOSING TO NEETS

Curse you IM for giving into adderall addicted no lifes

[wooden meadow]

have you been able to check the rolls?

[runic cradle]

for Halloween the devs should be naked skeletons and be completely invulnerable and run around punching people in the dungeons

[snow dock]

What they have done to loot and chest is just stupid

[final tinsel]

What is the rationale behind re-adding +dmg stats to gear besides weapons? I'm sure that I and many others felt that it led to super-geared 3 mans just rolling entire lobbies with 1/2 hit kill builds.

[neat hearth]

give it to me straight... how is it? I can't get in

[cerulean kestrel]

I cannot believe they reverted the damage nerfs

[neat hearth]

"Gear is not skill, but it helps a whole lot if you have no skill doesn't it?" - Corpsehammer

[rigid prawn]

Gear doesn’t make you stop whiffing and space properly, it just instills confidence which helps people not panic as much

[short heath]

Press W win game.

[rigid prawn]

As a fighter, please do this yes, easy money

[shy zodiac]

If I have four magic healing heal me for 3 a tic if I have 10 heal me for 6 a tic and so on do this instead of just a complete cut make the healing modifiers curve as they go up for warlock

[tight fox]

Paisley I'd imagine you'd know but have they already tested locking more impactful rolls behind higher rarity in previous patches?

[abstract swallow]

lmao did they really forget to change +weapon

[split lake]

Time to take a break.

[neat hearth]

Footwork matters a lot! I have 3k hours in Mordhau, brother. I know all about it. But, when gear is too hard to come by, you will not feel confident with that gear. Just a terrible crushing feeling when you lose that gear after trying to sweat with what little time you have to play. (Fighters have this fairly easier than most other classes so I don't necessarily expect you to understand)

[rigid prawn]

Thats the nature of extraction type games with full loot. Called Gear Fear

Good way to get around it is to look at gear as temporary. Its not that its YOUR gear, its just your TURN to use it

Played a decent amount of mordhau as well, skill floor on that game is for sure much higher but would be awesome to see clashing or feinting added to DAD, think they could make combat more interesting without raising the skill floor too much

[abstract swallow]

yep
there ain't nothing in this game that isn't replaceable
the sooner you start burning down entire stashes to start from scratch to reach a state of zen, the better

[neat hearth]

It's too tough and I'm sick of trying to justify running in place in this game. Last night was the most funI've had in a while in this game

[formal granite]

Please Ironmace increase the loot again, that gameplay yesterday was the most fun I have ever had on DAD since release. Stop making a grind simulator.

[abstract swallow]

have you even played yet lmao
the loot is still cranked to hell

[rigid prawn]

@abstract swallow 100%

It really comes down to design, 100% up to the devs discretion. Think theyve been flip flopping to see where the split in the community lies, from what ive seen more people get upset when gear is just light improvements, feels less rewarding when you find gear in raid.

Finding a happy medium could be possible, but at some point the got to pull the rug out from under 1 side of the community. The devs have to decide what type of game they want to make, one that caters to extraction shooter players or one that caters to deathmatch players.

[abstract swallow]

the 1-14 removal was a good first step, it shows they aren't afraid to commit to their vision when push comes to shove

but rolling the current-internally-tested-gear-balance out every time they have to emergency hotfix something is getting old fast for obvious reasons
at least they killed legacy gear for good

[rigid prawn]

yes was glad to see that as well, people dont realise how much the system was working against the >15 crowd. 15+ lobbies were a wall for a lot of people, now gear in lobbies will be more spread out, maybe we will be able to run ruins without being juiced to the 9s now lol, feels like Labs lol

[neat hearth]

okok I'll hush til I can log into the game. I should stop listening to chat

[abstract swallow]

it's been a big improvement so far, pretty much everyone is in a smattering of gear
obviously severe loot nerfs across the board are needed, and we need F1 to exist again, but it's a good start

[neat hearth]

F1 oh floor 1

[tepid hemlock]

I JUST DIED BECAUSE I GOT STUCK AND GLITCHED INTO A DOORWAY. I AM SO MAD RIGHT NOW I HAD THE BEST LOOT EVER

[rigid prawn]

Im hoping for f1 as well, seems the devs want to implement merging before it will be an option though, will have to see what they throw together, looking forward to it

[prisma tartan]

Halloween event, die and play as a zombie?

[rigid prawn]

🇷 🇮 🇵

[pliant trellis]

that would be fun i would wanna be a nightmare zombie tho to spam gas and be as annoying as possible to the nearest players especially teammates

[prisma tartan]

Yeah why not hahaha

[rigid prawn]

not anytime soon as theres way more stuff to work on i think, but i think some zombie mode would be cool even just for halloween, maybe slap it on the side of this "arena" mode theyve been hinting at.

[neat hearth]

this is a dungeon crawler, not an extruder shooter , silly

[rigid prawn]

its actually both!

[pallid patio]

Hunt Showdown one of the top popularity extraction shooters and it doesn't even have gear, really

[lyric yew]

There needs to be a low but noticeable sound for when a player is opening a portal minus the (WASHING) sound when it pops.

[neat hearth]

I kinda want to feel more like I'm playing Daggerfall with PVP, not like I'm crawling up the wtc on you know nevermind@rigid prawn

[lyric yew]

Give us back cool colors for our earned roles - Line holders ... we were there.

[rigid prawn]

The devs have a vision for a specifc type of game, if it ends up filling that role for you right on but the portal system makes it an extraction game as well. Im interested to see where they take the PVE as they plan on adding a Dragon boss at some point, im as hyped for the PVE aspect as well.

But at the end of the day the PVP will always be there, gotta gotta put the PVP in PVPVE

[short heath]

Both sides could also get off their thrones and realize that this game is neither of those genres, and it can find/have it's own identity.

[neat hearth]

yes the PVP is essential absolutely
I just can't explain it. PT123 felt like a great time with fellow old school dungeon crawler roleplay type folks, and then something changed drastically with the crowd lol

maybe I'm just imagining it

[rigid prawn]

It has opportunity for both, especially if they add some sort of arena mode. The fact that theyve hinted at such gives me hope that they might actually try to appeal too both crowds. will have to wait and see once we get past these balance growing pains

[short heath]

In essence the game really isn't an extraction shooter or a deathmatch style game, though. It's a combination of both, and isn't a shooter by any means. The majority of combat is melee-centric. It's an extraction based dungeon crawling RPG. Which is why I always laugh when people try to hard-commit it to the looter shooter/extraction shooter genre.

Like, just because you saw "extraction" and personally came from a looter shooter/extraction shooter does not mean that this game is what you were playing.

[rigid prawn]

You're contradicting yourself lol, the game is made up of its parts, which means its both an extraction game and a dungeon crawler, making it appealing to both crowds. You can't ignore the Tarkov influence in this game, saying the game isnt an extraction game is disingenuous

[short heath]

Read what I wrote, my guy.

[rigid prawn]

I did, thats my response to it lol. besides why make assumptions on my gaming background lol im a quality gamer, play many different genres.

[short heath]

Clearly you did not. "It's an extraction based dungeon crawling RPG." I labeled it as an extraction game. You claimed I said it wasn't.

[rigid prawn]

Hence why i said you were contradicting yourself

"In essence the game really isn't an extraction shooter" directly competes with "It's an extraction based dungeon crawling RPG. "

[glacial sphinx]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/499820/put-gear-in-a-reasonable-spot-and-stop-jojoing

[short heath]

It does not. It's not an extraction shooter. Shooter implies guns.

Also, I feel like loot is still easy as hell to find. Not really sure what people are complaining about.

[wide lagoon]

devs should add a shared stash where it costs 15 gold to put in and withdraw stuff. Would make life much easier for solo players. Theres nothing stopping friends from trading each other.

[pallid patio]

has anyone noticed lanterns can only be equipped in weapon slot 2?

[stone marlin]

If it has rangers its a shooter just now guns will arrows that slow you for 2.5 seconds which is better then a full smithed gun in tarkov NGL cuz teir 6 armor will block depending on the bullet why not have a system in place to balance the archer in such a way to no make it a shooter 😂

My English bad btw I apologized

[rigid prawn]

i dont know why your trying jam this point down my throat, I havn't referred to the game as a shooter, plus its just semantics. Shooters is used synonymous with FPS or First person. The word to focus on is extraction, as thats the intended context.

My original point still stands, the game is the sum of its parts, making it both an extraction game and a crawler. Your contradiction is in saying that the because the game is both an extraction game and a crawler, its neither.

"In essence the game really isn't an extraction shooter or a deathmatch style game, though. It's a combination of both" implies this

[stone marlin]

Only applause to dark and darker is u can have a job and still mostly enjoy what this game offers

[daring trail]

@small furnace My first thoughts are, loot is not nearly as good, but it is better than hotfix #14. Havent played enough yet to really tell how good, ive seen no blues in normal boxes, only lions head/golden/royal coffins.
everything else has some quantity, but its mainly gray/white with the occasional green. I have found a few blue sellables.

Already running into +3 wep dam, +4 additional physical damage builds in normals though. It hasnt been 1-2 shot kills yet tho.
So far its unimpressive, but i guess better than hotfix 14

[stone marlin]

No quest to progress for item unlocks in the shop and such 2-4 hours an afternoon on this game you can still enjoy more over then other "extraction games" its one of a kind and most likely will hold the crown for this sub genere extraction game

[neat hearth]

f u c k 😦

[short heath]

I've seen blues and purples in no-ante chests

[daring trail]

in non-lions head/golden chest?

[short heath]

Yes

Just found a blue crystal sword in a coffin

[rigid prawn]

Your english is fine!

I feel ya, there seems to be a community push for removing slow off arrows. Having a perk to add it already, its not like they wouldnt have the option to do so.

The other concern is melee weapons slowing as well, would this screw over rangers that got caught? I think theres a lot of thought the needs to go into making ranger less of burst class with items while also not making them invalid, and seems like the devs plan on focusing on these issues when they implement the quiver. until then, the limit of rangers issues will always be the moderately high skill floor of landing arrows consistently.

[short heath]

Like a regular coffin not the golden ones

[small furnace]

Loot is fine, they screwed over oak chests and anything below it, but most chests seem to give similar or the same loot.

I've seen many blues in regular chests just not as many in oak chests or anything below that.

[jaunty rock]

Make harmonic shield give 40 to self and 15 to teammates

[stone marlin]

They way I see it u can solve it multiple ways is

1. turn down player model draw distance to stop archers from shooting such long distances I don't feel it is right for a single class to have an ability the almost allows a hitscan shot on a crossbow or windlass at such distance. I don't think people have abused this fully yet.

2. Make the archers slow a different % per bow type while also say the recurve bow slows you by -40 make it -50 and test it and go up with each level of bow.

3. Isolate bows take it off fighter leave hand crossbows to the classes that lost them also allow

• Add in quivers
• add arrow levels steel etc etc slow % can change per type
• allow storage of arrows in stash
  +allow stacking that are crafting materials and require more then one atlwast wolf belts moldy bread etc etc to 2 per stack.

A few more things should be added to just to improve just QoL things

I could make a list of QoL and class suggestions the suggestions are more of a "take grain of salt" thing my opinion is not fact just an opinion. But QoL updates are a fact they are needed

Please lmk with what you disagree with I would like to see the bad in the ideas I got I don't mind the criticism

[shell canopy]

Please bring it back the balances queue is awfull to try leveling and gear up with so much diference on items and levels :/

[rigid prawn]

I like the idea of scaling damage on arrows as well as bows, makes them more gear dependant.

Trueshot with a windlass is slept on i agree, my group calls it "The 50" since its the closest thing to a sniper this game currently has lol. I dont know if its broken though, will have to see if it becomes more common place, if it truly is broken the community will eventually jump on it like they did the warmaul.

Both quivers and crafting part storage of some sort have been mentioned by devs, so we could see both implemented at some point.

If we make bows fairly dependant on quivers, fighter could still keep them imo. Making the quivers how you scale the arrows or something would make the fighter have to have both to compete. If you can store quivers you should be able to store them filled, like the current quiver system that's attached to bows.

Scaling slow to arrow tier would be a direct nerf to early game rangers as the top tier could be roughly the same if the scaling allows it.

[stuck perch]

No, revert it to it's original value. If you absolutely need to nerf it find something else to nerf about it.

[stone marlin]

THE FUCKING 50 BRO IM USING THIS AHAHAHAHAHQY 😂😂😂😂🔥

[rigid prawn]

feel free!

[stone marlin]

Bro I be playing high roller solo just Invs potions and ratting around teams if I see them sit they taking a windlass to the mouth 😂

[rigid prawn]

Ruins bridge towers with a windlass is scary for anyone in the area lol

[stone marlin]

Do you think if they add or do add a quiver it will be a cape replacement?

That could be used as a balancing item In a way

I main ranger I just know he to much to Handle rn especially you played over 4k hours of TF2 PUGs as a huntsman bow sniper 😂 my projectile aim is impeccable

[rigid prawn]

That would make the most sense. I think people will complain that they cant wear capes though so it could potentially go in the bows offhand as well, but i think having trade off is a good thing.

The way i imagine quivers, they would be back slot and store a number of arrows that scales with tier. Your ranger would pull from the quiver first and your inventory second, allowing you to sacrifice space for more arrows if you wanted to. Green+ would have additional stats of course, maybe with the ability to roll higher capacity as well.

[stone marlin]

We got spam gifs get this windlass talk up the padge so no one finds out about it

[rigid prawn]

its only a matter of time lol

TF2 players are menaces on ranger lol. Mordehau and rust players too!

[stone marlin]

I like that idea I think people would hate not being able to wear a cape but it would allow you to make a choice what to sacrifice allow more ways to play

Bro don't get me started on rust I legit have custom chairs hair's I purchased that thingy on steam so I can shoot my rust bow better 😂😂

[neat hearth]

custom crosshairs?

[stone marlin]

For rust yeah

Got to have them when u have a bow in ur hand I never used it except to be a prim God

[quartz jetty]

This patch is fire!

[oblique nest]

Doing the roll back is worse than the original blunder of destroying all our gear...Id rather keep the stuff that we farmed since the patch than lose all that and get my gear restored in a nerfed state....like insult to injury here.

[hazy sinew]

just saying. Rangers don't need multi shot or whatever nerfs. One thing all you gotta do is remove the slow or lessen it when they hit you. That way you can actually chase and they can't run back and forth. This also isn't just me whining like literally every other person in this server. I'm a ranger/warlock/fighter main. And both my fighter and ranger is so easy ESPECIALLY on ruins cause I just. pop a arrow/bolt run away pop another run away and repeat till they are dead. Like it's not even fair. I'm just bullying these guys.

[severe comet]

bruh they need to force ppl with full purple gear into high roller only or do gear score matchmaking, makes the game unplayable for casual ppl who cant ever make money vs a dude who plays 14 hrs a day cape gaming all day pub stomping because they lack the skill to face anyone thats on a simi level playing field

[slim temple]

that or just bring back 1-14 ques where its a lot more manageable

[severe comet]

eh thats okay but theres ways around it get ur cape gamer buddies to carry you through 1 match and drop you a full loot set seen it multiple times

[oblique nest]

Except people were just deleting characters to stay in those queues which still ruined the point of helping out new players

[severe comet]

exactly i did the same thing only way i could make money until i was at the full blue level then bam get rolled by a full purple and gold team XD

[slim temple]

i was one of them but it's not all about new players it's more about casual players being to enjoy the game as they will make up a majority of the player base

[severe comet]

^

[slim temple]

a toon should get locked to 15+ lobbies if they run with a 15+ group

[oblique nest]

The under 15 queue was about new players

[severe comet]

if it keeps up casual gamers will leave then all that will be left is the cape gamers they cant pub stomp and long queue times

[oblique nest]

not casuals, I'm not saying there isnt a problem with overgeared people in regular lobbies, but people dodging regular lobbies and farming new players is just as bad.

[severe comet]

just like rocket league if ur high mmr (geared af) you should not face against someone running in base kit / greens. And they have high queue times for the "pros"

[oblique nest]

True, but until they figure out a good way to introduce some version of skill based match making, its just kinda what it is, you cant just do it based on "gear" cus then the second a noob gets lucky and finds a purple he now just dies.

[slim temple]

if no 14- lobbies then a gearscore/mmr would have to get adapted to stop the pugstomping in lobbies

[oblique nest]

Its a problem they'll have to figure out but its just not as easy as you're making it sound

[neat hearth]

I'm so mad..... I'm gonna say bad words.......

[rigid prawn]

Now they can past level 15. Since the lobbies are open even when your level 15+ you have the ability of getting matched up with people not in gear. With the old system, 15+ became the new high roller as anybody that couldn't pass the Wall that was 15+ lobbies just restarted their character, making the 15+ skill floor higher and higher.

Now, since everything is mixed, you have a higher chance at ALL levels of coming across lower geared players. Everybody has less of a chance of fighting juicers since the juicers are now spread across the community.

Now they just need to create incentive to play HR.

[sour pewter]

bring rogue BACK by consolidating perks - pickpocket and lockpicking - stealth and shadow runner - etc ... and add 5 or 10 flat magic damage to cut throat... make rogues viable in 3s again plz

[abstract swallow]

what pubstomping? there's no more barrels of fish to shoot with 1-14 gone, adding it back but different will just open up another two weeks of me droptrading kits to rerolled rogues
everyone's fair game again, and bringing in better gear than a dungeon rewards has actual risk

[neat hearth]

there is a noticebly different attitude now of parties with gear than with 1-14 lobbies, they HUNT YOU DOWN. like, very noticebly different, I know I'm not crazy. im just thinking out loud, not making any argument

[slim temple]

I see your point and that does make sense however it doesn't stop juiced players from rolling normals in any way. You are less likely by odds to run into them however it's nearly every game you see a team wiping a lobby.

[slim temple]

drop trading from a 15+ toon should lock you out of 1-14 and or add a hidden value to items and those items in the 15+ bracket lock you out 1-14 que till you have none on

[abstract swallow]

okay, so I'll do 0 EXP runs on a doublejump rogues and droptrade crafted +all +damage kits
you can play this game as long as you want, every restriction you add makes the 1-14 queue less useful and makes my griefing even easier/less risky

[rigid prawn]

The side effect has been a raise to the overall skill floor 100%, although the chances of it happening in every game is slimmer now across the spectrum since the majority of the playerbase aren't juiced. Were all going to have good days and bad days where we get in queue with juicers constantly.

The key thing to remember is there will be games where you are the most juiced players, and if you die to a juicer team, spectating them can help you understand the game better at a higher level of play. Great way to get introduced to bossing is watching the juicer team that just rolled you take a red portal.

[neat hearth]

I fear it is always just going to be a hobby of a huge swath of players to just farm normal dungeons as long as they're able to do so. These people don't want to take risks, they just want the fun of being the big bad guy in the vidya game. I really have doubts there's any method to segregate these crowds without at least some brute force

[abstract swallow]

they have a solution to separate people out, and it worked
it was called Forgotten Castle
Ruins and Blue Crypts filtered HARD and had the single best economy the game has ever seen

[rigid prawn]

I agree, you will never avoid it, thats why i think this suggestion is key in making it less rewarding to do so

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/499796/lower-cost-of-hr-based-on-a-gearscore-system-while-also-raising-lr-cost-on-a-spe

[neat hearth]

Oh shit, that's actually a pretty cool idea

[rigid prawn]

I wish i played it more, had plans and only played that version of the game for like 3 raids. Blue crypts was a trip though lol, never fall asleep again with that constant blue light! I did like the idea of making crypts harder but Ruins was not even close to being done yet, the thieves highway was real PT5 lol.

I think in the current state of ruins, if they added 1 more outer layer that was more forest or something and added red portals, it could be a good first floor now. Make LR crypts the current HR crypts balance and make hell UBER hard. Make HR kick your arse pve lol.

[rigid prawn]

After a lot of thought its the best solution weve ever brainstormed in here

[abstract swallow]

ruins just needs a soft rework
make the central 9~ tiles proper (ruined) interiors
break up the outer wilderness to NOT being a big open donut for spawnrush/ranged camping (Blue Crypts' spiderweb design was king, literally the best the game has ever been map-wise)
and actually connect the underground/building areas with other parts of the map instead of leaving them pointlessly independent to each tile/module

[rigid prawn]

fantastic ideas, my favourtie part of the map by far is well, that underground area is one of the best escape paths in the game when being chased

[abstract swallow]

yeah, now imagine if those areas actually went anywhere
it's great plays just waiting to happen

[rigid prawn]

It goes to a couple areas! connects to bridge room and the northern lower area, and i do agree it would be cool if the area underneath bridge towers connected further and the fire maze was also connected to bridge. Lots of opportunity for vertical map design if they opened it up a little

[abstract swallow]

you get what I'm after

[neat hearth]

on a side note rangers are fricking bs and everyone knows it jfc
THW SLOWDOWN SFDDGPKSTERGFNHOSPRJHNTYIDSRHTKPIOB

[abstract swallow]

just don't get hit

[rigid prawn]

[neat hearth]

I do the dance bro

[abstract swallow]

on a more serious note, why did they bring back full weapon/magic damage after specifically leaving it out of what they said they were going to buff back lmao
having 30+ SCALING bonus damage was THE problem with kits

[abstract swallow]

don't dance you hippie
just respect their line of sight or shoot them
if you let them play at their optimal range with no cover you're gonna get picked apart even if they use a survival bow

[neat hearth]

you have a point

[rigid prawn]

to add onto being friendly, there's no such thing as a 100% truce. If it comes down to it, you might have to fight over the last portal.

People will sometimes betray at the most opportunistic time for them, so doing things like keeping distance and not having your back turned while interacting with things will go a long way in preventing dying to a break in the truce. When it comes to rangers, Badger nailed it. Rangers, rogues, and barbs will forever be environmental hazards. Never enter a room with anyone without being ready to fight them.

[neat hearth]

Lol I actually meant the matrix dodge dance but still good advice

[rigid prawn]

Whoops! lol

In that case, a large mouse pad and unpredictable movement moving cover to cover is your best approach! Shields are a rangers worst nightmare if its an option, besides another ranger of course lol

[daring trail]

loot is fine, not super op now
still finding more geared kids in norms than in HR tho.. add the raw gold back to HR tbh

[hearty agate]

Game: makes good changes - reverts 1 day later - problems return - everything is basically as it was with some more nerfs and +all nerfed

I understand the idea of fixing duping and it makes total sense to fix that - but why are we reverting a change after one day on top of it?

[formal granite]

Who else thinks yesterday was the most fun they ever had playing Dark and Darker? I can't believe they revert the changes after one day and people are literally sitting here telling them how much better the game was that way.

[stuck perch]

Of the changes they reverted they're the ones I didn't care about. The ones that I wanted reverted stayed. Also the devs lied when they said they were done with the nerfs.

[amber solstice]

Did the devs not originally design the game with powerful gear and big gear gaps? They have nerfed gear disparity by huge amounts and made better gear infinitely more available. All of the people that want gear to not exist just want a different game. Bug them for a fair arena mode. I think they could successfully make a game for the no gear people but it's not the game they want to make. Defaults PvPing with nothing to gain or lose gets old quick for me and apparently the devs too.

[blazing bolt]

@dawn grotto I just want to say that we should all give a huge thanks to the amazing team behind Dark and Darker that is listening to their community and making the game more amazing despite the challenges that have impeded the game. Thank you guys ❤️

[quartz jetty]

get good and win and youll have gear

[neat hearth]

brilliant

[stone marlin]

OKAY THERE IS A BUG WHERE IF U MAKE IT OUT YOU LOOSE ALL YOUR ITEMS AND ONLY KEEP THE ONES U WENT IN IWTH

my freinds kept there stuff but my bard lost evverything

[frigid berry]

So they changed the loot back? I want the new looting system back, dungeons dont feel worth to run.

[stuck perch]

Wtf, who's been whining at them to cause all these horrible changes? The community is divided on a shit ton of issues and the devs are just nerfing the fun out of every class.

[crisp quiver]

Duck it we need gear caps. Neck beards can be mad all they want the average player is gonna be ok with the changes. Instead of pandering to the 1% sweatlords help out the other 99% who want to play a better game. TTK felt good for those few hours after patch 15 since people didn't have crazy stats on every piece of equipment they had. Make +all only available on jewelry/capes and watch how much better it feels without everyone stacking +all on every piece of gear they have. There is a reason you have the stats the way they are, Any higher on certain stats and it becomes unbalanced so why allow sweats to become so overpowered you can't do anything against them? +weapon should not be on armor since that makes 0 sense, Make the rolls on items make more sense like armor can't get any dmg buffs like armor pens or +weapon dmg and weapons can't give damage reduction. Don't fold to these no lifers when you know what your vision for the game is. Hold true to what you said and the most of the community will support you!

[small furnace]

I did lose a raid to getting stuck on spiders and juggled endlessly inside the swarm, my sword wouldn't reach them on the floor it was an agonizing and slow death.

Thankfully I didn't lose much but still, would rather that not be a mechanic.

[neat mantle]

Brief stuns on hit Dark Souls 3 style to fix the movement speed meta

[carmine saddle]

regionlock china when

[sweet nymph]

patch 15 is very poggers, like a breath of fresh air

[main perch]

That doesn’t matter when China is already a closed internet country and they have a ban on imagery of undead

So if they are playing they are either not in China or have a vpn and can’t be targeted

[neat hearth]

Make it so jumping on the spiders SQUISHES THEM 😈

[main perch]

Spiders colliding on you blocking your jump is the worst

Especially on rogue who needs 2 hits and has no range to hit them

[wooden token]

Here I think a good direction to balance Modifiers.
We need almost 2 modifiers to make a real difference, such as Armor level and phy reduce percentage. Need to compile both to reach 60+ phy reduce.
we need Additional phy and true dmg to make survival bow be threatful to other character.
We need weapon dmg and phy power and armor penetrate to make ranger be powerful.
By doing so, everyone will need at least 2 modifier in almost all gear working together so they have advantage in one aspect, thus not powerful in every aspects at the same time.
So we need to cut the cap for armor level from 15 to 10. 65+phy reduce barb definitely need some weakness. lower their damage is acceptable. For their movement speed buff is temporary. Not one shot almost everyone is important, that says 75armor penetrating is too damn powerful. I believe 55percent is fine to against fighter and cleric.

What's more important, is to make defensive modifier harder to build than offensive modifier, which is the key part to make everyone feels they have a chance to challenge GOD GEAR TEAM, not make this game just LEFT CLICK and chase around.

we need to make a way that Geared team are not so hard to die(ranger is an example, every team have confidence to kill him.) , and not too fast at the same time.

[mellow glen]

are u ok ? Defensive Modifiers should be easier to build vs offensie and defense mods should much more common than dmg if u wanna increase survivability and avoid 1-2 taps . There is roll +3 STR which give 6 life its joke that life roll mod roll to i think +5 ? We need rebalance value of many moods if STR give some dmg and 6 life then life roll should roll up to 18 or even 24 to be competeteive with 3 STR roll . also additional armor rolls like +8 or 16 is too low should be up to 32 48 .

instead nerfid dmg and zoom zoom at endgame they should add more defences more life more armour . gap betwen mobility and armor is too big ... full sets of armour should give additional reductions like full cloth gear should gave like 10% additional DR for leather 20% and plate like 30% or something

[wooden token]

LMAO, 32 additional armor, then who can kill barb? with 75+phy reduce 70+ magic reduce.

You make this game Geared team with no chance to lose, for every team who dont have their dmg to certain point do not have ability to fight back.
Again,barb need some weakness, which should be damage

[indigo grail]

amazing so i lost 6 hours of gameplay where I got a coupl k worth of gold in not only actual gold but items as well and now I have to sit here and get boned in the face??? I suggest i get back the shit I lost

[mellow glen]

but idea is u also have that gear and big life pull so basicaly u can just stay and open portal while they hitting u and u can still run away easly
@wooden token ok i understand u but we talking about diffrent thing im talking about item and mod balance and u talking about class imbalance ... im not sure if nerfing/balancing all gear becasue arround one class is good idea it can be done in other way

[wooden token]

item balance and barb balance is both imporant for this circumstance.

[mellow glen]

i believe game may be much more fun if actually u need fight and swing for like 5 mins to kill good geared team when u also strong instead 2 hits fights
or even when two super geared teams they may be imposible to kill each other in time and draw with good heal and all kits

[wooden token]

If armor is still too much, barb is totally smash fighter, why do we need fighter when hes lower hp,lower dmg

[nova drift]

if I cant get back my white name from trying to farm positive karma reports because of 1 accidental pk and 1 intentional pk after over 500 extracts on my account, and i keep getting kicked from parties, then forget it im going full dark red name. i might as well kill people for their gear until they implement a better reporting system .

you also get blamed more for mistakes with a red name even when you had no control over the situation.

Might as well go full anakin

[mellow glen]

but my whole idea is u can also get 75% DR as ranger and big life pool with good gear like 200+ life
Problem is most gear is just go glass cannon becasue life and armor defence mods are too weak comparing
Game will be less punishing when u can easly build defences on every caracter and u actuyally can get long fight and fun instead 1 shooted

[wooden token]

if ranger can get it, barb definitely can get it.
then its too easy to wipe the whole lobby full of Not enough damage team.
And if they do not have all offensive purple gear. They have no way to kill this bard with cleric.

then the game is GEAR GAP game.

[mellow glen]

but idea is they also cannot kill u easly .. fight will last longer they will go out heals and resourecs and they need consider if they wanna chase u . draw or pass

[wooden token]

If its too safe for Geared team, Lower geared team feels too hard to challenge.

if barb can go 75+ phy reduce and 200hp
fighter can only 83+ and 150hp
and fighter dont have lots of damage

fighter will last 5hits around. so fast to die

[mellow glen]

"then the game is GEAR GAP game." isnt that game all about gear ? i loved it becasue its like diablo or path of exile full pvp focused with diablo itemization ... i will never play if its another FPS game like call of duty with no iteams or leveling and without progression . ? im pretty sure many ppl love this game becasue of itemization ,

[wooden token]

its a game that gear can make you feel strong, but not too safe to wipe all other Low geared team.
This make the game fun and dangerous therefore interesting.

if you have enough gear then dont need to care anything, just W , left click.
its a boring game.

[mellow glen]

well maybe its not good for game when supergeared teams play normal and they farm on noobs im ok with that i can handle them i will be rat but for sure would be nice if they add content which will make those supergeared teams go to other maps or do superhard content for super rewards that would be nice . We also dont have ladderboards yet so i believe many supergeared teams just play normals for fun instead pushing ladder in HR and thats hurts sunday players

[mellow glen]

even if u got supergear u can meet other team and thats moment when true fun and endgame starts

[wooden token]

thats too hard for most player to get ALL GEARED and all modifier useful.

[mellow glen]

i understand that but also many ppl wanna pay 1000h and still fells there is still something to get they wanna fell progression . Would be nice if they add content idk superhard PVE maps which make supergeared ppl want go there instead harras sunday people in normal lobbies

[wooden token]

then its what unique items do.

[real trellis]

HR inferno bossing IS the superhard PVE lol

[mellow glen]

is it rewarding enough to take risk ? or its easier to clear full lobby in normal and get 300-500 gold every 10 mins ?

[real trellis]

Well it's the only way to get unique weapons/armor so it's "worth it" but only if you have a team skilled and geared enough to do it, full purps isn't necessarily enough to hack it if your team isn't on point so you might as well just stomp timmies in normals

[pallid patio]

idk about "super" hard... basically every mob is cheesable

so the optimal way to play hell is ULTRA boring only no-lifers do this shit

get centaur in a spot where he can't move, shoot him 20 times standing still... super hard top tier gameplay. Such skilled gear acquisition

[mellow glen]

but Dousiq is talking about Bossing ?

[real trellis]

Mobs being cheesable is also something that needs to be looked at yeah

Maybe if a melee mob can't reach you for 10 seconds (and not because of kiting) they call the nearest ranged mob over

[mellow glen]

i think every mob should have some ability or seconary weapon when they start use when they cant reach u ... i think thats good fix

[pallid patio]

yes, i put this in the suggestion thread

[mellow glen]

yeah good one i think but i can imagine u need be GOD skill programmer to make AI for that which will work 😛

[paper abyss]

re-nerf all the overpowered gear, balance felt great pre-dupe rollback

[dim goblet]

remove +1 all attributes. Remove the weapon damage. Make modifiers on items like they were yesterday. It was a great decision! Why didn’t you just fix the bug with item duplication and leave everything as is?

yesterday we fought on equal terms with people who were better dressed than us. A person could make a mistake and because of this he would lose his equipment. Today, I am being killed by a fighter in which each item has +1 all attributes and additionally strength or dexterity... How to deal with this? in such clothes he can make mistakes 5 times, but not die in the end

fighters gain such an amount of strength and agility that it is impossible to hit him. He immediately blocks with his shield and then hits you... This creates an imbalance. I'm not talking about archers or rogues who gain "weapon damage" on every item and shoot you at 50% HP in the body.

Barbarian is very fast, due to the fact that he can gain both strength (increasing his HP pool) and speed through agility. As a result, this is a huge carcass that runs and swings its hammer very quickly, destroying 50% of HP in 1 hit and you don’t have time to block it

Yesterday weapon mods were really important. I didn’t look at the line “+1 all att”, I looked at things like additional running speed, armor rating, action speed and so on... This brought both balance and added interest to the game... Now everything is simple they are looking for +1 all and in addition to this strength or dexterity... the rest of the modifiers are just garbage compared to them.

[celest pagoda]

plus all is way to easy to find

[indigo grail]

Suggestion: please nerf barbarian, getting two tapped by a walking tank when i have a ton of armour on with strength rolls is rediculouos (he was naked other then a cape and green hammer)

[opaque urchin]

I think that addidng those blue gems completely broke progression on those.

Right now i have -200/400 to achieve

[hybrid marlin]

There needs to be alot more motivation for people with high gear to do HRs it's a serious problem for people to kit themselves out simply to demolish people with no kit... I'm trying to introduce my friend to the game and in both Ruins and Crypts we can't go a single round without running into people with all blues and purples.

[twin kiln]

War Maul has insane dmg so, there's your problem

[opaque urchin]

True. Without stats like +1 all on people, even on HR yesterday we had a chance with blue/green gear. Because skill was more meaningful than gear.

Especially that a lot of people sell gold an in-game items for IRL money. Which should be punished ( selling, not buying). At least in my country it is illegal to have any gains from the game without direct consent of developers

[twin kiln]

Gear based matchmaking would be awesome but it's never going to happen

[opaque urchin]

I consider those two serious issue with society of the game and quality of gameplay.

I can grind like 2 days or more to have full gear, maximum purple ( never above). Meanwhile someone spends literally 2-3 USD to get up to 4k gold or unique names weapons. And due to that and +1 all and such, I do not stand a chance even with some nice blue gear. Always getting one shot ( even on fighter) with a spell or an arrow to the chest. Not to mention barbarians

[crimson jewel]

pleaseee ironmace pleaseeee. Fix the right click bug. I kept throwing my lantern.. And pleaseeeeeee. Fix the goblin aggro. They just aggro to me from above or below. Pleaseeeeeeeee ironmace. Reduce the amount of mobs a bit in gc. It's too tight and too crowd.

[livid mason]

What do you think of implimenting clarity sickness to prevent the pots from being heavily used cleric/wizards? I think clarity pots heavily disregards magical healing on gear for cleric so they ought to do something about that since they have too much healing at base. since the base healing back then was designed for playtests that did not have clarity potions yet.

[indigo grail]

either way the ammount of damage that he does anyways is rediculous, even if it was like a green felling axe i would get about 3 tapped which is rediculous either way

[crisp quiver]

Duck it we need gear caps. Neck beards can be mad all they want the average player is gonna be ok with the changes. Instead of pandering to the 1% sweatlords help out the other 99% who want to play a better game. TTK felt good for those few hours after patch 15 since people didn't have crazy stats on every piece of equipment they had. Make +all only available on jewelry/capes and watch how much better it feels without everyone stacking +all on every piece of gear they have. There is a reason you have the stats the way they are, Any higher on certain stats and it becomes unbalanced so why allow sweats to become so overpowered you can't do anything against them? +weapon should not be on armor since that makes 0 sense, Make the rolls on items make more sense like armor can't get any dmg buffs like armor pens or +weapon dmg and weapons can't give damage reduction. Don't fold to these no lifers when you know what your vision for the game is. Hold true to what you said and the most of the community will support you!

[bleak dagger]

It's funny how you are so delusional believing your own oppinion is the vision of the devs and the whole community.

[opaque urchin]

The thing is... They are not sweats. That time without +1 all and some other stuff on eq... With worse gear my team had better chances, cause we had better skill, not gear

[crisp quiver]

I agree yesterday I did not died single time exited like 15 times in arow, coz not a bard with 40 strenght would W my team, becouse gear disparity was not so large

[low charm]

just experienced for the first time in ruins that a team can keep you out of the worm lair by manning the switch and the only way around is to send one person in by themselves or wait them out

[quartz bloom]

I love the idea of there being a queue for people that buy access to player trading and a queue for those that don't.

Trading characters would not be able to queue with non-trading characters. A non-trading character could buy access at any time but there would be no going back until the next wipe.

What do you guys think?

[low charm]

that seems like a very complicated way to limit the number of players in lobbies with good gear

[quartz bloom]

It's not that different from the 1 to 14 queue that many people seemed to like. People liked it so much that they were deleting characters just to reroll at level 1.

The main power difference between 1 to 14 and 15+ is not the perks, it's the access to player trading that allows for far higher gold earnings and the ability to buy the exact stats you want.

[low charm]

correct. youre essentially limiting the BIS (best in slot) concept by running lvl 1-14 and doing this definitely helps but with the merchant change it wasnt nearly as effective. just implement a gear score system to the queues and you would have the exact same effect without people sandbagging the classes

[quartz bloom]

The gearscore idea is far more complicated than a trading and a non-trading queue. It also fragments the playerbase far more.

[low charm]

so lets discuss this in whole. what about the <15 queue was so appealing? compare that to a "trade-limited" queue. and then we discuss what the difference between that and a gear score system would entail

[prisma tartan]

Need a gulag system or respawn, more action. Or players turn to zombies when they die

[quartz bloom]

The non-trading queue and the 1-14 are exactly the same in practice. The only difference with my idea is that you could get the 1-14 experience permanently without having to reroll characters.

[low charm]

so youre saying that the appeal of the 1-14 was that typically (cause it wasnt 100% effective) you dont run into characters with BIS gear?

[quartz bloom]

The appeal is that even though people can grow strong through found gear and the RNG of merchants, they will likely never grow as strong as they could through player trading. It would also be exponentially more difficult to have backup kits with the perfect stats too.

[quartz bloom]

Also, bear in mind that the way the 1-14 queue was implemented, people could have 15+ friends drop them BiS in a raid and then queue into 1-14 with it.

[low charm]

absolutely but your "no trade queue" wouldnt fix that

[quartz bloom]

With my suggestion, there would be no queuing between trading and non-trading characters within each wipe.

As stated in my original suggestion.

So you'd get on with some friends and instead of saying "anyone got a char under 15?", you'd say "want to play on our trading or non-trading chars?".

[low charm]

so how does that differ from a gear score system? with a gear score system every piece of gear on a character's person contributes to what your "pool" of the lobby. you would essentially eliminate all of the "sharing" that would still be available with your idea. obviously there are ranges for the gear score to determine who you play against but this would conceptually eliminate people bringing in BIS gear for their friends so they can steamroll the lobbies (which was being done in 1-14 queues).

The idea that this would somehow split the player base doesnt make sense either. in fact it would actually feel much more natural in the way that you deal with the competition. for example. new players are learning how to PVE for the most part. then they start escaping more with loot or dying to pvp. so their ability to pvp would have to improve in order to get out with said loot. then as they get better their gear score goes up. and with this the competition would be harder as well. and so on. and so on

[quartz bloom]

Before we discuss your idea, would you mind telling me what "sharing" would be available with my idea? lol

[low charm]

so for example you and i are partied together in your non-trade queue

[lofty tusk]

what is going to stop me from just dropping stuff for friends instead of trading....literally nothing...

[low charm]

we each have the ability to go through our merchants and pick out the best gear available for myself or you and we can compile that to create the ideal gear for what is available to us in this exact moment. but this punishes people who dont have "friends" that they play with regularly. every friend that you have that plays this game contributes to the gear available to you theoretically. so instead of trading in game. you discuss whats available to you and your friends and they bring whatever it is that you are looking for into the lobby for you

[quartz bloom]

For the 3rd time, characters that have purchased access to trading would not be able to queue with characters that have not purchased access to trading.

[low charm]

you wouldnt be breaking the rules of your "no trading" but it allows you to have a larger resource pool than potentially other people

[lofty tusk]

so ? you can still trade though, just not in the trade post.....very easy to work around tbh...enter dungeon, drop stuff, extract...ez

[quartz bloom]

What you've described would definitely still be possible with my idea but discussing what's available at each of your friends' merchants is no where near is as powerful as trading. Furthermore, earnings would be far lower without access to player trading so the power would still be restricted somewhat.

[lofty tusk]

wdym i could just join a special discord of tryhards that has a trade specificly for the mode without trading....

[low charm]

not at all. i can speak for myself and everyone that i know who plays this game that the vast majority of my gold is made through selling trinkets. not gear

[quartz bloom]

So you're saying that it would be just as easy to acquire BiS gear in a system where there is a trading queue and a non-trading queue and the characters in each can't queue together?

[lofty tusk]

yes it wuold be easy, i could still technically speaking offer real money for gear (i personally wouldnt bother with that but we all know people do it)...i could set up trades inside the dungeon and just have a buddy there to help me extract....its not that hard to work around tbh

[low charm]

im not saying its as easy. im saying that everyone doesnt have the same access to resources. meaning that you are going to still have a small group of players running around with BIS gear because their friend pool is larger than others

[pallid patio]

HR Goblin cave is EVEN MORE FRIENDLY after the patch due to the insane amount of loot you get for free vs the risk of fighting. I'm not exactly complaining because I'm making shitloads of money but... sometimes I want to fight a WILLING PARTICIPANT

[quartz bloom]

It would be far less accessible than it currently is and would carry a pretty large risk that you don't get out with your purchase on the first run. And you would have to do that for each and every individual piece of a set.

Not even comparable to the ease with which someone can buy a BiS set in trade now.

[lofty tusk]

it would be just as accessible as trade is now if you are a member of a public discord that exists solely for the reason to circumvent the no trading rule....

[low charm]

i have definitely seen the atmosphere change in goblin caves of both levels steer away from pvp to "lets all be friends since we can all get out together"

[quartz bloom]

Like I just said, it would differ from the trade chat in two large ways:

1. A risk that you don't get out with your purchase.
2. The need to queue in with this risk for each and every piece of a BiS set unless you find one seller that has all the things you want.

[pallid patio]

I want to introduce some chaos and backstab, make people a little afraid again but honestly feel kinda bad. At least in Low Roller Goblin Cave people react positively when I roleplay voip something about "honorable combat & glorious death"

[lofty tusk]

its only a risk for people that play alone....everyone else wil just circumvent the rule

[pallid patio]

most importantly it wastes their time

[lofty tusk]

i completely get the idea of wanting a more "fair" mode, but this just isnt the be all en all solution....fyi playing games in and on its self is a waste of time, so that wont stop anyone

[celest pagoda]

guys i am a stream remove +1 all its a lazy slot

[low charm]

like i said. its not about being easy. its about availabiltiy of resources to the everyone. streamers/pros would still have the unfair advantage of having a fan base to supply them with gear they want. you wouldnt actually be fixing the problem that we both agree is an issue (the people in normal lobbies kitted to the teeth steamrolling every player they come across)

[quartz bloom]

I think you're being a bit disingenuous.

Currently, if I have 5k gold, I can just go into the trade channels and hang out for 10 or 15 minutes and buy each and every piece of BiS gear I want to build a set.

You're trying to suggest that a system where I have to find each seller on Discord or on a forum outside of the game and then trust them enough to queue in with them to drop it for me, risking losing it in the process, for each and every piece, would be just as easy.

[short heath]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/472659/matchmaking-balance-calculation-suggestion

[lofty tusk]

you think i wont be able to achieve exactly the same with a discord channel that exists solely to circumvent trading ?

[low charm]

how many people are you friends with on discord that play this game?

[timber pawn]

Would be awesome if the recoverable health could be white instead of light red, very hard to see with even mild color-blindness

[quartz bloom]

1 to 14 existed. Despite its flaws, many still favored it over 15+ queues and would reroll just to play in what still felt like a fairer environment most of the time. My idea is simply to allow people to stay in that kind of non-trading "found gear" queue for as long as they want and to not allow players from the trading queue and non-trading queues to queue together (which would be an improvement over the 1-14 queue that existed that people already liked).

[quartz bloom]

You're not really directly responding to what I'm saying anymore. It's a shame because I appreciate reasonable discussions regarding these suggestions, such as the one CadeAK and I have been participating in.

[lofty tusk]

best option is to create skill based matchmaking, a system that tracks your previous, idk lets say 10 hours of gameplay, it tracks amount of extracts, kills made, and whatever other factor is important....boom now on average the matchmaking is relatively fair without having to gearcheck people or have a mode where you can just work around the core of the modes rules...

[low charm]

but the point that im making is that you are going to still have the problem of a small percentage of players that are circumventing the rules in order to steamroll lobbies for their benefit. a gear score system would fix that problem directly AND it would be intuitive for learning the game until you are more capable to compete with people who have BIS gear

[low charm]

SBMM has not helped any game that has ever existed. in fact it made it more competitive and less new player friendly

[lofty tusk]

prove it dont just claim it, looks at rocket league lol

[quartz bloom]

What are you even saying lol

[low charm]

fortnite, rocket league, ranked mode of ANY MOBA, COD

[lofty tusk]

they are all hugely popular and huge successes idk what you are on

[short heath]

@abstract swallow thoughts on the current patch?

I think things are pretty healthy across the board. Loot is relatively easy to come by, power imbalance over tiers of gear isn't terrible to the point of being insurmountable (even though TTK is VERY short currently, which I don't think the devs want), and even the Ruins was seemingly being ran by non-meta duos as often as meta duos. I don't think I personally played enough Crypts to form a trios opinion because I was playing mainly duos with a friend, but it also seemed a lot more healthy. We 2v3'd a few teams, but still got rolled by any buffball we encountered, although we DID take one or two of them with us in the process, which is a good thing. Certainly better than standing literally no chance. I think this patch is a LOT better than most people think it is/thought it would be, especially with weapon damage rolls coming back.

[low charm]

yes but they all started without SBMM and when they changed it they lost over 50% of their player-base immediately.

[lofty tusk]

imagine listing 1 of the world most profitable games, with one of the biggest playerbases ever in gaming as an example why skill based matchmaking doesnt work...

[quartz bloom]

It's impossible to prove anything to someone that can't directly respond to what's stated. I've multiple times described what your idea of circumvention looks like (having to queue into the dungeon with multiple different random people to acquire a set, risking losing the piece you're trying to acquire each time) and you continue to ignore that and suggest that it would be just as easy as the current trading system.

[low charm]

which game are you trying to use as this example? because if we want to talk about most profitable game id say it was the MOBA category

[lofty tusk]

im sorry but you are just flat out wrong....you literally listed the worlds most successfull esport games that have successfully implemented it and have collectively probably hit over a billion players...im not buying it dude

like just say you dont like it and call it a day...but to go ahead and list huge titles as an example why it failed....man im at a loss for words

[low charm]

how many pros do you know? these games profits are so high not because of ingame purchases alone. its because of the professional level esports that they brought with it. did you play fortnite before they started competitive play? were you even ALIVE when COD didnt have an esports league?

[quartz bloom]

Even with a gearscore system, there is a huge disparity between a poorly itemized green and a perfectly itemized BiS blue. There will still be people that are way stronger than others and that will still be exacerbated by player trading.

[lofty tusk]

yh tell me more about how fortnight and rocketleague are failures due to skill based matchmaking......

[short heath]

I've been gaming/in the industry for over 30 years. There is not a single game that comes to mind in any category of even relatively competitive pvp-oriented games that started without some form of matchmaking that LOST, especially not over 50% of, playerbase numbers due to implementing SBMM (or GBMM).

[low charm]

correct but you have the ability to not bring in poorly rolled greens and play in a pool of people without greens/blues/etc

[lofty tusk]

fyi i was alive when the orginal nintendo released....

also i played with a friend who was a pro cod player....go figure

[low charm]

i want you to look at those graphs of fortnite and pay attention to how the growth drops off

[lofty tusk]

sigh....it literally 1 of the most successfull games ever....

[quartz bloom]

My final summary before I depart this enlightened conversation 😛

People liked the 1-14 queue. Many are disappointed it's gone. One of the main abuses of that system (that people already liked and miss) was that people could have friends give them loot purchased from trading and then join the 1-14 queue.

My idea is simple. Allow the 1-14 queue experience (no trading) forever until you choose to enable trading.

Furthermore, don't allow trading characters to queue with non-trading characters, thus eliminating one of the major abuses of the 1-14 queue (that people already liked, even with that abuse).

Would there still be ways of circumventing the system? Perhaps. But it has to be kept in mind that people already liked the 1-14 queue (to the point of deleting and rerolling characters just to maintain the experience) and what I'm proposing is that same experience.

I find it hard to believe that this wouldn't satisfy many of the players that enjoyed the 1-14 queue experience.

[lofty tusk]

playerbase dropoff is normal in ANY online game....the fact that fortnight was able to hold on to its growth for as long as it did, is quite a testement to just how successfull that game was

[low charm]

noone is saying the game cant be a success. what im saying is that it causes the player base to drop and they have to circumvent that in some way (ie starting an esports for the game)

[short heath]

GBMM would shift the economy to a more healthy state because there would be people prioritizing bis greens to attempt to circumvent the system as much as possible while realistically not gaining as big of an advantage as there currently is possible to gain via gearing and subsequently purposely queueing for a lobby you know is filled with undergeared/less experienced overall players to attempt to get the easiest lobbies possible. The point is to objectively reduce the potential stat differential between the lowest and the highest geared players within a lobby.

[lofty tusk]

you are just trying to twist things to fit your own narritive, and with that you are literally sitting here claiming fortnight and rocketleage are somehow failures due to skill based matchmaking....bro i dont know how else to tell you, you are very detatched from reality

[low charm]

it literally falls off as soon as they implemented SBMM which was my point from the getgo

[plain cosmos]

Make ttk Higher

[lofty tusk]

correlation and causation...and all that....

[short heath]

It does not. In zero cases has this ever been true.

[low charm]

never have i said that these games were failures. i literally play all of them to this day. but youre trying to say that SBMM made the game better and it factually didnt.

[lofty tusk]

prove it... show me the graphs and dates...the whole works....feel free to dm it

[vagrant perch]

pls get back 1-14 and 15-20 matchmaking !!

[short heath]

My favorite thing to do right now is to run Ruins solo as a Rogue with weakpoint, rupture, and poisoned weapon with + weapon damage and as much str/agi as possible, but not running a cape so people don't see me and immediately think I'm geared to the brim, poking fully geared Rangers twice and watching them flop over as they try to run away. Actually comical.

I have like 3 full Ranger gear sets just chilling in my inventory because they thought they could run up to me and Spear me to death. Kekw

[lofty tusk]

my dude literally sends me the growth stats claiming that because the growth didnt stick to 150% over a span of 5 years, and over the years the growth percentage dropped, and it supposedly correlates with the release of skill based match making...but literally not a single product can hold on to its initial growth percentage....so in conclusion...i was right lol

[short heath]

Oh we all already knew this. He's 100% talking out his ass.

[low charm]

my dude wouldnt scroll down on the page and see how the revenue lost also supports my claims

[lofty tusk]

jep lol

[vestal relic]

There is a simple fix to this silly weapon damage bonuses.

Have rules on gear bonuses, for example: One piece of gear can only benefit from one type of weapon damage mod specifically.

So, +wep dmg, true phys, true magic,magic dmg, physical bonus, all of these would be the same "rating", so if a random roll rolls out one of these, none of the other ones appear on that piece ever.

This avoids players from making sets that can increase one attack by like 50 damage.

It ALSO allows a piece to have more variety in bonuses that can make you more tanky, or faster.

If this is too drastic, you can limit it to one physical, and one magic bonus. So warlocks can benefit from both for example.

But having +3 wep dmg, +3 additional and then true damage. On one piece? Let alone a whole set? That's really dumb and will only benefit the squads who already obliterate people.

[low charm]

i mean theoretically it would benefit everyone who is trying to run the class that way because everyone has access to trade chat. if youre talking about the people who find it naturally thats just rng and the chances of those aligning a incredibly small. but i do get your point. the real problem to me is that these items are priced at 1000+ gold per piece and the majority of players dont have that kind of gold to spend on gear like that so the small percentage of players that do are generally career gamers and this is imo is where the problem is stemming from. the company is appealing to their career player audience more than their average player-base

[short heath]

I made 400g in a single no-ante crypt run last night without going to inferno. If 1k gold is out of the question for you on this patch, you have other problems that you need to address before attempting to gear out to overcome your obvious lack of skill.

[low charm]

so i didnt say me ever in there. i dont understand how you inferred that i was talking about myself. if you include sold gear in trade chat absolutely i make on average 500+ gold on a "successful" run. and the 1000g per piece of equipment was a number i pulled out of thin air

[short heath]

"... the real problem to me..."

Looks like you said me to me.

[low charm]

"the PROBLEM to me

[vestal relic]

Not sure what you mean at the start? I mean limiting how the pieces are rolled. The randomness is too out of control. It's silly that it is even possible to get that much damage at all lmao. It needs to be toned down.

That a rogue could craft a set that can demolish people or a ranger that can shoot an arrow dealing like 90 damage or more

If we remove that it is even possible, we remove the really expensive 1000+ gold problem, we have no chance of a glasscanon protected by a team or just the absurd difference between a lowgear player and a geared one.

The gap is too insane with this rollback imo

[low charm]

not problem FOR me. jesus.

didnt know i was gonna be giving an english lesson today

[short heath]

There certainly is a gap, but its nowhere near as bad as you're making it out to be with how easy it is to acquire gear naturally, not even talking about potentially trading. I have full gear sets, decent ones at that, after no more than 2 runs after starting naked.

[wooden meadow]

tell me when you‘re done. there‘s still some math homework, I have to collect from him

[low charm]

im sorry i guess i assumed you were referring back to the previous conversation. i overlooked you mention the "weapon damage problem"

[low charm]

lmao

[short heath]

Just because you can't add and he can't apply proper grammar to his thoughts doesn't mean you're supposedly giving lessons or collecting homework. Introspection would do you both well.

[wooden meadow]

I asked you the following, yesterday, and you haven‘t replied yet. „I'll try to explain to you why 200% as number doesn't make any sense. +3 Agility increase Item Equip Speed by 21% for a base cleric.
In what world do these 21% matter? do this 21% count against your total increase of 200%? are these 21% Item Equip Speed as important, as the +6% Physical Power Bonus?“

[low charm]

so i think the game could benefit definitely from a reduction in damage across the board. this would mean that there is an increase in ttk (time to kill) which would mean fights could drag out longer and more ingenuity could be implemented other than just "stand and wait in the dark for someone to come by and jump them" or "just keep running through rooms until we come across another team"

[short heath]

Yes, and I ignored this because 1 - yes, it does still matter, and 2 - I had already explained exactly how I came to the numbers I did previously, which you either still cannot comprehend or are willingly ignoring the math on. I'm not going to waste my time saying the same things 20 times over.

[neat jay]

BRING BACK NORMAL CAVES MAP ONLY AND TRIOS RUINS

[vestal relic]

Problem is not an even playing field, problem is fights are too short, no skill expression and highgears murdering lowgears

Although the latter was fairly fixed with more loot. But I feel that wont stay for too long? If it does it might even it out

[short heath]

Honestly, duo Ruins is significantly better than trio Ruins ever was.

[low charm]

on this we agree

[neat jay]

its the only good map for to get into fights fast

[vestal relic]

Yeah, that's sort of my main goals with my argument. Just slow it down a little.

[low charm]

yes because it seems like that has taken on the roll as "no ante pvp map"

[low charm]

i could agree with that but i think that all classes benefit from the "stat stacking" system we have now. whether thats +magic dmg, +weapon dmg, +all stats, etc. now some classes are predisposed to do more damage than others based on their skills but i think that was always the intent from the beginning

[short heath]

Just do what I do. Gear yourself out but don't use a cape, which gets fully geared people to zug at you thinking you're an easy kill, then two tap them and laugh while you loot their flopped body.

[neat jay]

if i wanted to play high roller goblin caves map i would play high roller... rofl

[wooden meadow]

„If you watch your character sheet and add the total percentage increases you get from no buffs to as buffed as a Bard can possibly get you right now, the total increase is near 200% across your whole team. Being able to do that AND have competitive ranged dps to a Ranger is not okay.“
this was your explanation. ok, let‘s engage on that idea. what would be a great threshold for bard buffs on a team, if 200% is problematic. 50% in total? less or more?

[plush sky]

Removing the 1-14 was a ridiculous choice. I'm starting a new character and having to fight purple/gold gear in every goblin cave. I'm not exaggerating, it's EVERY round. There is no chance or choice when doing a new character. You can't even hide very well to avoid it they know where you are

[low charm]

i just dont know how to reduce this without a general "damage down by XX%"

[plush sky]

Easy to say when you've already got gear and gold to buy things

[low charm]

100% agree that you shouldnt have to experience that. its not enjoyable in the slightest which is why i keep saying they need to implement a gear score for normal lobbies and we would be done with that system. id feel a whole lot better about getting killed by someone similarly geared than me over getting killed by the guy with 10k gold invested in his kit

[short heath]

Again, I have said this 5 times in the past 3 days - the problem with Bard is that they can apply these buffs at the same time and while you choose to believe that they aren't as impactful as they truly are, it is quite obvious that they have a significant impact, otherwise the class would not still be ran in meta team comps after being nerfed 3 patches in a row.

Song buffs need to be aoe around the Bard, meaning that as soon as you leave that aoe around the Bard the buff goes away. They also need to only persist while physically playing the song and only for 5-10 seconds thereafter, which renders teams/Bards to only having 2 concurrent buffs at any given point in time AND limits the dps potential of your team by denying Bard access to things like buffing then Crossbow for 80% of people's health pools. This needs to happen, or serious diminishing returns on buffing needs to happen, in order to balance the class and even out this insane buffball meta they've built.

[plush sky]

Yep completely agree. I wasn't a fan of the implimentation from other games, but having SOMETHING, similar to maybe a White/Grey/Green lobby only, then Blue/Purple/Gold. Maybe not exactly this, but SOMETHING of that sorts would clearly stop it and have a similar rough experience

[short heath]

I have gotten all of my gear from naked runs. Haven't bought a single piece of gear since patch hit.

[low charm]

my suggestion was have every item in your inventory be scored. thats everything down to bandages/health pots. obviously higher quality gear is scored higher but you cant offset this by going in wearing greys but have an inventory full of meds

[low charm]

how long have you been playing?

[short heath]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/472659/matchmaking-balance-calculation-suggestion

[short heath]

Do you mean the game in total, or how many hours since the most recent patch?

[plush sky]

Also not a bad way to go, there is plenty of options like that to go on. If I wanted to shit on new people I would just take my 20 barb out and 1 shot people, I just don't think it's a decent way to have a system

[low charm]

i 100% support this and upvoted it last month
i mean DaD as a whole

[crisp quiver]

1Duck it we need gear caps. Neck beards can be mad all they want the average player is gonna be ok with the changes. Instead of pandering to the 1% sweatlords help out the other 99% who want to play a better game. TTK felt good for those few hours after patch 15 since people didn't have crazy stats on every piece of equipment they had. Make +all only available on jewelry/capes and watch how much better it feels without everyone stacking +all on every piece of gear they have. There is a reason you have the stats the way they are, Any higher on certain stats and it becomes unbalanced so why allow sweats to become so overpowered you can't do anything against them? +weapon should not be on armor since that makes 0 sense, Make the rolls on items make more sense like armor can't get any dmg buffs like armor pens or +weapon dmg and weapons can't give damage reduction. Don't fold to these no lifers when you know what your vision for the game is. Hold true to what you said and the most of the community will support you!

[short heath]

I probably have around 1.2k hours at this point across all the PTs and EA.

[plush sky]

The comments on that are why it won't happen. Great idea and filled with "get good and avoid fights" when that clearly isn't the issue

[low charm]

so im probably sitting someone around 800 hours but do you remember how much more difficult it was for you (i know it was for me at least) when you fired up the game for the first time and tried to get out? no idk about you but i didnt have nearly as much of a problem with the kitted trios as we do now. but it was still hard to learn on its own. and since EA release it seems like a lot of the lobbies have geared teams steamrolling in them surrounded by naked players. thats infinitely harder than what i had to deal with when i started.

[short heath]

I'll be honest, + all isn't a massive deal being limited to + 1 all across the board as a random modifier. + weapon damage is way more of a problem currently. But yes, in general, they need to make a decision on what kind of community they want to foster... and if they're smart, they'll focus on the average playerbase since a game like this will not likely ever have a true "pro" scene they can profit off of, and their current financial model is geared towards a casual, average playerbase anyway.

[low charm]

you say that but they have already talked about hosting tournaments fortnite style (kill/extract=points)

[short heath]

The reason it was easier back then as compared to now is because the rarity of gear during PTs was inflated heavily, which allowed people to minimize gear differential quite easily and quickly. And most PTs didn't have Bard to force meta buffball into the game.

[low charm]

i would say that is part of the factor. yes. it also had to do with the majority of the playerbase was still learning the game as well

[short heath]

Yeah they've already hosted tournaments, but that doesn't mean that those tournaments are ever going to be or were ever profitable for IM.

[vestal relic]

I already explained that if you have a pool of rolls that can't land of on the same item.

So you cant have 3 different pluses to your weapon damage, only one, or two. This limits the modifiers on every single item, effectively reducing the damage BONUSES by 66%. (not damage bonus, but the bonuses themselves, which in turn would probably do the same but I am not a mathematician so dont quote my math lmao)

[low charm]

not at all but if fortnite is any example these tournaments started out as privately hosted and then were implemented by the devs after they saw how popular they were for viewership

[short heath]

I think this would be much more possible if they weren't still facing Nexon in court and the game was on Steam.

[low charm]

ill double check myself but in the US the court system dropped the dmca charges against IM by Nexon. now its still ongoing in korea but steam is a US company and not subject to korea's dmca laws

and now my argument is based on my prior statement being true. i think its not on steam currently because IM partnered with CHAF and now they either cant put it on steam due to contract rules or wont put it on steam in response to steam dropping them from the market

[short heath]

Valve doesn't want to play a risky card is why they're not on Steam. If IM ends up "losing" in the Korean case, if the game were on Steam, Valve would be brought into the case and held liable for compensation to Nexon, and besides for the obvious financial burden that is, they don't want the negative PR associated with that, either.

[low charm]

im not a lawyer so dont take this as fact but as long as they didnt sell the game in korea wouldnt Valve be safe from legal action? its the whole reason for the lawsuit in the USA to begin with because Valve is an american company

[lofty tusk]

valve will not publish games that are in a legal battle, its just a company policy, and a smart one at that

[low charm]

i wont disagree with that at all lol

they are the largest pc game catalog they have a lot to lose and very little to gain

[lofty tusk]

exactly, if they had to go sifting thru each and every game with a case against them they would prob have to hire an entire team + a legal team just to be safe lol

[low charm]

well lets be real here lol they probably already do lol

[lofty tusk]

fair haha

[short heath]

No, they'd still be held liable because they were a means by which IM profited, and also would profit from those Steam sales, which is a direct loss of potential gains from Nexon (again, if they were to win the case in Korea). Where you are doesn't protect you from liability in any case. The reason Nexon attempted to form a case in the US as well as in Korea is multi-fold... they wanted as much $ out of IM as they possibly could get because they're a direct competitor that took advantage of a game design they scrapped that obviously saw extreme success to slow them down/potentially shut them down, and they wanted to take advantage of two separate legal teams to gather as much time as they possibly could against IM (time = money) and attempt to prevent IM from releasing Dark and Darker into EA (and therefore becoming profitable). Nexon was literally trying everything they could to squeeze IM dry and shut them down entirely. They also started the case in the US simply because they could and have the funds to do so, because again - time = money, and they know IM is nowhere near as big as they are. They could sustain both cases, while IM probably couldn't have.

[low charm]

i can see your point and agree that that is a highly probable scenario. i just was under the impression that the lawsuit was going on in korea before Valve offered the game on steam

[short heath]

No, Valve ended up backing out of their support for the game on Steam as soon as the case was announced towards IM in Korea. There was a case already issued towards individuals on IM's team prior to this that you might be conflating.

[low charm]

you could very well be right!

[astral warren]

woman elf/orc barbarian should scream in woman voice lines

[nova mango]

they do

[astral warren]

my character is male barb originally i use woman elf but i scream in male voice :(

[low charm]

Back to the earlier discussion. How do we feel about a gear score system as a whole? My thoughts on how it would work is as follows:

Trash gear: 0
Grey: 1
White: 5
Green: 10
Blue: 20
Purple: 30
Orange: 40
Uniques: 80

Now all gear that falls in these categories applies this include: throwables, potions, bandages, etc.

The ranges could apply as follows in solo:
0-70
70+ - 140
140+ - 280
280+ - 420
420+
Each range of gear score is allocated to allow 14 items of the next teir. But no more than that. Which means you could not bring in gear for your teammates and "sandbag" the team's gearscore

[bleak dagger]

could you just stop this gearscore BS? It doesn't work, it will never work snd they will not implement it.

[low charm]

What about it doesn't work? There are many games that use this to augment their pvp to make it a more balanced experience

[bleak dagger]

If you want a balanced experience, then why having any gear in the first place? It's imbalance by design. What is your incentive to aquire gear if not for gaining an advantage, thus creating an imbalance. You guys with this gearscore shit don't understand that you basically asking to remove gear entirely from the game. It just doesn't work in this game.

[nova mango]

id just like the gear disparity to be less of a cliff tbh

[bleak dagger]

thats a whole different story and i'd sign that.

[low charm]

That's not at all what's being asked or even implied. I guess firstly we should ask the simple question. Do you think fully geared trios steamrolling a lobby is a problem?

[bleak dagger]

Yes, and gearscore is not the solution; just as socialism doesn't make everyone equal.
The questions are, why are those people there and not in, lets say HR? and why is everyone else struggling with aquiring gear themselves? If they can, everyone can.

[prime thicket]

because HR is just not worth it... with a 300gold entrance fee as a team...

[wide lagoon]

Theres not enough players to seperate into different lobbies tbh

[lofty tusk]

gearscore is a mmorpg mechanic....pve based stuff...like looter shooters etc etc

[muted nova]

the problem with gearscore is that people would actually have fun

it needs to be hard, with gearscore everyone could just extract and not ever die

[bleak dagger]

Why do people believe that with a gearscore they would struggle less against the streamrollers? It wouldn't solve any of the problems for "timmies"

[lofty tusk]

the issue with gearscore, no matter how you spin it, it doesnt work for this kind of game....even if you say for example we have a gray-blue bracket and a purple-yellow bracket....you may aswell just move 1 of the 2 backets....if you cant comprehend this idk what else to say

[muted nova]

gearscore would take forever for matches

imagine being full unique and getting empty lobbies lol rich get richer

[bleak dagger]

Yes exacty, thats why I am saying they essentially ask for removing gear entirely.

[low charm]

Using economic analogies. That's a capitalistic concept. Because one person did it. That means everyone can do it. Which is innately not true. I'm not asking for them to remove those players. Or that those players give their gear to lesser players like a "socialist" would. The idea of a gear system is to allow players with lesser skill to be able to compete against people of higher skill. That's literally how it works. But when two people of similar gear face off the one who is more skilled than the other would be the winner. But there are many ways to set up your kit that would allow for creativity of builds and combat to flourish rather than this stat-stacking-buff-ball meta we have right now

[lofty tusk]

even if the lobby would be full...essentially if you are in top bracket, lower bracket gear becomes irrelevant, to the point that you wont ever play in the lower bracket unless you are fully gear wiped....you may aswell just take 1 of the brackets and balance all gear levels within that bracket and have the exact same result but without the segration of the playerbase...

[muted nova]

would you suggest a ranking system? where high quality players verse eachother? Like a lvl 1 new player verses people like in call of duty bootcamp

[rare seal]

Gearscore doesn’t need to be simple gray-blue that’s a very simple implementation of the system and no it’s not only mmorpg system plenty of games have it hell even single player games have it where gear is involved. This is EA after you could implement this kind of system for a week or two and see how it goes does it help, does it make things worse but alas people will mald and cry and we are going to be stuck with hotfixes and no direction for the game

[lofty tusk]

i would suggest tracking relevant stats such as amount of extractions/kills/deaths/what have you, over the past 10hours played and matchmake based on that....

[low charm]

But would that not mean the upper brackets are rewarded for killing people in their bracket? It means the gear would be relevant to their own innately giving it value.

[limpid niche]

No gearscore. Its fine how it is. You can find so much loot now. And its so rewarding killing better geared people

[lofty tusk]

no because it doesnt matter in what bracket im playing...if im at the top end of the lowest bracket why would i want to go up a bracket? i would just be bottom of the barrel again...

[bleak dagger]

In its core principle it is just like capitalism, anyone can get stuffed, but not everyone. And you are essentially saying it: how would they compete with less skill against people with higher skill? They would still just loose. That's not a gear problem, but skill. And gearscore wouldn't change that in the least. In a nutshell the most skilled player have the best gear; that's just how it is; and I can't see how a gearscore would alter the outcome in the least.

[muted nova]

exactly, what incentive is there.

[lofty tusk]

essentially each bracket would be its own version of the same game, there is literally no reason to ever leave the 1st bracket....

[bleak dagger]

you say it man, you are my man.

[muted nova]

unless loot pools change there is no reason

so let's have a ranking system. Different brackets going up. Each rank you get placed in a map with higher loot quality

[low charm]

I guess this is all basing on people's desire for competition. If you enjoy being the winner of the salt bowl rather than an ncaa champion then I suppose you wouldn't understand that desire for competition.

[lofty tusk]

realisticly there arent many options, its either have a starter kit dungeon, have a no trade mode, have skill based matchmaking, have low level dungeon, off the top of my head...or any combination of those

[muted nova]

I guarantee my suggestion would save the economy.

[lofty tusk]

or ofcourse, just do nothing would also be a option, but a lot of people wont enjoy that tbh

[bleak dagger]

You can't just apply the same principle from a matchmaking to this game. I can tell you, that these people steamrolling the "timmie" lobbies are the "timmies" of highroller and face the same problems there as the others in normal; so why would they go HR?

[muted nova]

people would actually play and pvp to secure their place in the bracket because loot would be a prize to fight over.

Nobody would have access fo higher tier loot until they go into higher brackets for better loot quality verses their level

[lofty tusk]

well the point is more so that it is a looter/dungeon crawler gamer, the loot needs to matter in some way or another....like i could definitly think of other ways to balance things but all of those options would require a signifficant amount of dev time lol

[low charm]

Throw some at me. Gear score is the primary solution that I come to because i have had a positive experience in the genres that I have experienced

[lofty tusk]

imo a combination of skill based matchmaking light (only checking amount of kills and extractions), combined with compressing the overall geargap but adding some very nifty skill modifiers etc in high end gear, to the extent of if you have 3 pieces of "fire runner" perked gear, the fighter sprint leaves a trail of fire (not a serious example but just to illustrate the concept)

[violet sequoia]

Your are looking for a fair game, but this game was never ment Bo be fair

[low charm]

I like the concept. Replace the difference of +80% damage reduction with "take reduced damaged from behind"

[lofty tusk]

ya be more creative than just slapping some numbers on the gear, but ill admit that takes quite a bit of extra dev time

it would also be very complimentive of trading...i find for example 2 pieces of "barb skill perk gear" i play fighter...now i need to trade because i want those sweet set perks

[low charm]

Absolutely it does but that's the entire premise of early access

[bleak dagger]

that would be quiet inaccesible for the majority of people. Think of the Path of Exile skill tree. Looks frightening but in the end comes down to a few builds really working out and being competetive and a lot broken stuff, that would make the game a pain to "balance", however you could balance it then. So just more complicated but not really more complex.

[lofty tusk]

i mean im talking its the top tier gear that has the set bonus instead of having a big stat bonus....and if you pair that with a light version of skill based matchmaking it would prob work

[violet sequoia]

Wont work

[low charm]

What is the point of making classes balanced if the game wasn't meant to be fair? You're argument doesn't make sense. If they didn't want a fair chance for everyone they wouldn't do patches to make the classes comparable (I'm not saying they are entirely successful) all games that have a pop competitive aspect strive for fairness

[bleak dagger]

I believe we are nowhere at the point in this discussion that the topgear matters regarding the problems, but this light skillbased mmr sounds a hundred times better than gearscore.

[lofty tusk]

yh just to clarify what i mean by a light skill based mmr is that you just track the bare minimum stats, so like you track only extractions and amount of kills within the past X hours of gameplay

[bleak dagger]

class balance is not the same as gear balance, since gear is by design a "wanted" imbalance.

[low charm]

But what he is saying (I think) is that the value disparity wouldn't be so great between the tiers. Which would mean that going into a normal lobby wouldn't look like a COD kill feed

[violet sequoia]

Not fair, does not mean stupidly broken gear, class, perk or skill

It means that if you go into a game, you can fing geared people, it means tha you. Can loose your súper gear because of a body Block from mobs.

Means that if you are bad at the game you Will get stomped, and if you are tryhard you can snowball

The inhability of a player to get better gear or winning more pvp does not mean that developers should make the game easier for them
But the contrary, they need to get gud

[low charm]

But they are doing balance changes to the gear as well so clearly they want a more balanced experience within the combination of class and gear.

[bleak dagger]

yeah i get that. we were at that point with patch #1 before they reverting it back instantly. But honestly gear didn't feel like any kind of achievement.

[bleak dagger]

yes, and that's fine. Maybe they should work on a "better" combat, that's not just stat checking all the time. E.G. Blocking does nothing atm except prolonging the innevitable stat check.

[lofty tusk]

another thing that would be cool imo, is if there was gear more suited for damaging pve and gear more suited for pvp

[violet sequoia]

New meta, pvp gear stacking

[lofty tusk]

ya but if you want to play sneaky pete just for loot you go for the pve gear hehe

[bleak dagger]

would wait until the pve gear boys cleared the pve and then destroy them with my pvp gear

[low charm]

I would agree that there are design flaws within this game. Like why would I use a shield when it does absolutely nothing negatively for the opposing person? Why not just rely on my armor values and damage numbers and hope mine are bigger lol

[bleak dagger]

Nah a shield is not entirely useless. Good for blocking arrows and magical projectiles, but in meelee it doesn't do that much.

[violet sequoia]

Shield is good against 1 handed weapon, problem is very few People take his time to learn how to block

[lofty tusk]

for melee its really only decent in a 1v1 scenario tbh

[low charm]

That being said I love this game because of the satisfaction of accumulated wealth on successful runs and how much the devs seem to want to satisfy their playerbases. However I also recognize the mountain that is starting new and having to avoid at least one trio of pvp hungry buff-balls

[bleak dagger]

Nah i'd disagree for the most part. In most scenarios it's just delaying the hit trading. One did not achieve much when blocking an attack, except when your meelee weapon is way faster than the opponents.

[lofty tusk]

yh to be fair im assuming you are using the shield perks if you are going to use blocking in melee lol

[bleak dagger]

don't have one as a cleric

[lofty tusk]

ah yh forgot about that lol

[low charm]

Under the new patch take a lantern lol at least that way it contributes to your melee experience

[bleak dagger]

there is no reason to block as a cleric when you 1v1 in meelee

[violet sequoia]

They should do a 24h EVENT of no gear lost the Day before every wipe
It was funn yesterday

[torn goblet]

i liked the loot from yesterday but now my stash is at 200 gold

[low charm]

What do you mean by no gear lots? I didn't play yesterday due to internet issues

[bleak dagger]

it honestly didnt change that much

[torn goblet]

it might be just because im a little loot goblin and i like the shinies in the chests

[bleak dagger]

but seeing 3 sellables at least blue rarity in a lionsheart is still a very common appearance.

[torn goblet]

bet

[high iris]

Revert this patch pls… Playing without major gear disparity was so much fun. Even content creator such as Katie and sobad said the same thing.. where is the issue on making the fights balanced , less gear dependent and fair? At the end of the day if you are good you will win the fight regardless of the enemy team is in default or blue gear..

[wild obsidian]

few suggestions:

Rogues:

-consolidate lockpicking/pickpocketing to one perk

-rogues can choose a perk where a blade is cloaked in non lethal poison that adds the drunken effect, 3 stacks of this applies the
debuff for 10 seconds, and can be re-applied in one attack within 15 seconds of triggering effect

-consolidate stealth and bake it into the hide ability, so all rogues can move 10 steps without the need for an additional perk

-add a shadow step ability, where players can can move back 3 metres, and leave a dark after-image, that similarly looks like the effect when rogues use stealth when they transition to invisibility, the after image has density and has 1hp, after image fades away after 3 seconds

-add a perk(phased stealth?), that effects how stealth works and gives the players a dark shroud, during the ability when using stealth, players will gradually cloak to partial invisibility over a 1 second ramp up, when a player attacks that invisibility is broken, but when the player stops attacking they phase back into stealth, taking this perk makes stealth last 10 seconds, and reduces the cooldown of stealth by -20 seconds

wizard:
-add a spell that shuts doors from a distance, these doors can be unlocked as usual, this spell additionally reinforces doors, making the barbarian crush perk take two hits to break the door, using this spell on a locked door will open the door instead

-add a spell that creates a 1 metre protection dome, which blocks all physical projectiles, after taking 200 damage this dome breaks, and lasts 10 seconds, if the dome is hit by an arcane spell, 20% of the damage is transferred to the wizard who originally casted the protection dome, the dome is a channelled ability, and the caster cannot move during this time

-add a perk that significantly reduces spell casting speed when using a staff, when the player uses a spell in quick succession, spell casting speed is reduced by 5% up to a cap of 30%, lasts 5 seconds before all stacks fall off, additionally, holding a charged spell will add one of these stacks for every 3 seconds the player holds a charged spell(including channelled abilities like dome of protection)

-add a perk that reduces all magic damage by 50% to the player, and adds 1 additional spell usage to all the players spells, however all offensive spells are transformed to add an additional effect, fireball will explode violently leaving small pools of fire around the impact zone, zap will arc to one additional enemy, ice bolt slow is extended by 2 seconds, lightning strike lingers for 4 seconds, hitting players within 1 metre of the spell every 0.5 seconds, chained lightning reduces magic resistance by a flat -50 to players hit for 5 seconds

[bleak dagger]

you are just coping. Do you really believe you skill is superior to the others and they only win because of gear? its delusional.
And using words like "fair" is completely lost in this regard.

[high iris]

Yeah 80% of the fights are won Bcs of gear disparity. If you don’t see it idk what game you are playing tbh

[lethal totem]

Give Wizards Shadow Masks

[short heath]

Depends on what class you're fighting. If you're going against a Rogue, blocking one of their attacks will give you enough time to jump swing at them and recover your block before they are able to recover their attack and strike back.

[amber abyss]

Remove HR Goblin map from regular goblin caves

[short heath]

This isn't true, though. There are plenty of really skilled players who don't play often enough to have full stashes of amazing gear sets, and there are also plenty of the exact opposite - people who are trash at the game and just play so much that they slowly accumulate enough gear (or gold to buy this gear) to run multiple matches in a row with said gear.

Time investment ≠ skill capability, and skill level ≠ time to play and gather bis gear sets. Tons of examples of these opposite sides of the spectrum exist.

The direct benefit that GBMM would have on both the economy and gamestate is that players who play enough to get decent gear sets but aren't actually skilled enough to roll HR lobbies against actual good players (you even pointed these players out in another of your comments) will have two options - either continue running no-ante lobbies in good gear sets against other similarly geared players, or go to HR and actually learn to play better instead of just relying on gear accumulated over time to carry them. While forcing these players to either improve or run HR, you're simultaneously improving new and casual player experiences by objectively keeping the potential stat differential at a minimum within the bracket they'd fall into, which gives them a better chance to learn and improve from their encounters with other players (because you can't learn anything from getting onetapped) rather than just getting ran through or gaining the mindset of avoiding pvp at all costs. It is very possible to overcome a bis green trio with all white/some greens, and on the opposite end it is effectively impossible to overcome a bis purple with white/greens. The well geared team would have to have gotten jumped, outplayed, or played super poorly themselves in order for that to happen in most cases. GBMM would give value to bis greens as well, to help the economy form itself a foundation.

[muted nova]

I'd love for him to fight full purple in grays

[azure fog]

Gear disparity in normal lobbies is the single biggest problem in this game. It is terrible for community health. Game/community health is not about the top 10% it is about the brand new player that is undecided if they are staying or not. Every game needs new blood to Keep it fresh and alive. Normals and casuals ARE a game’s community. They are the bulk of the purchases and funding by the numbers. We are currently subjecting brand new players and casual players who loose gear to be steam rolled in normal lobbies by purple troll squads. They don’t even bother looting the dead half the time, the purple trolls are only there to bully the normal lobbies. This is why the game has negative population growth.

[short heath]

Bingo bango, I've been saying this for over a month now. No amount of incentives will ever push the players who terrorize/bully new players/casuals into HR. They already have the gear - they don't go into these lobbies to get anything but satisfaction from killing other people and denying their progress, which is pathetic that the only way they can feel good about themselves is by doing this.

[abstract swallow]

I think if you cut weapon and magic damage mods and tweaked down the presence of treasure in LR you could probably leave it here for the rest of the wipe.
TTK is short, gear is plentiful, and it isn't just "farm shops and jack for god rolls" anymore..

[idle tartan]

give back 1$ beer

[main roost]

WTS Deathbloom 20key

[stuck perch]

And no amount of match making will solve the issue without adding exponentially more issues.
Aside from that F*ck Ironmace

[short heath]

My thoughts exactly.

[tight fox]

I still think more impactful rolls like weapon dmg and all attri should be locked behind epic and up rarity and that LR dungeon should cap at blues, forcing people to go HR to actually get kits and reducing the insentive of just jumping down into LR as a full purp gear team wiping everyone

[short heath]

This will apparently add "exponentially more issues."

What those issues might be, I couldn't tell you.

[tight fox]

Yeah idk

watching fully kitted team rolling LR lobbies to go into hell and still get a good amount of decent loot at their lvl seems kinda counter intuitive

[short heath]

I was just being facetious there, because @stuck perch made his usual claim and still has yet to outline how exactly these issues would manifest. I'm tired of hearing that things along the line of GBMM or gear capping lobbies will somehow ruin the game without getting any form of logical explanation as to how or why, so I'm just done engaging with people about it when they say it anymore.

[tight fox]

I don't see why we couldn't test it

a few weeks of testing isn't gonna kill anyone

[stuck perch]

I've done so every time we've had this discussion and you promptly forget the points as if they were never mentioned every time. This has been going on for how long? At least a month now. I'm not going to retype the same argument just so you can ignore it and claim I've never explained any of it. I'm also not the only one who's be refuting your claims and you've yet to address any of those points. Talking about it with you is a waste of time aside from pointing out that you're full of shit.

[stone marlin]

i think archers should get grey campfires back and lose bear traps on default

[tight fox]

campfire is like a get out of jail free card I think it would be too strong as a base kit item

[short heath]

It used to be, like he said - "back". I do agree, though... as thematically appropriate as it is, campfires are just too strong to have as a base kit item, imo.

[real trellis]

why the FUCK do ales cost 8 gold minimum now? That's actually crazy just to fuck over bards and clerics lmao

[calm orbit]

NERF THIS FCKING UNSKILLED WEAPON DMG BONUSES. this game is so fcking unskilled.

[real trellis]

HEAVY LEATHER LEGGINGS BUMP HEALTH NOW?!!??!?

[calm orbit]

yeah now warlock have only pants with strength. fck logic

[tight fox]

Because of that one dude that did a vid running an inv full of them ;D

[real trellis]

But they ALSO nerfed the shit out of physical healing so that should have been enough

[tight fox]

I think bumping it down to like 4-5 would be ok