suggestion-discussion

[fallow scaffold]

nerf goblin bola ima just start posting this every time those bloody thing kill me . Like 2 hits! its not even the slow its just dmg

[lone crescent]

Vote to raise Northern Full Tunic drop rate https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/482531/raise-the-drop-rate-of-northern-full-tunic

[bleak dagger]

Seriously people have weird problems these days.

[lone crescent]

Wdym?

[bleak dagger]

It's like compared to others things that could be improved or implemented not even worth talking about and certainly not reflected. It's 2 days after the wipe; good stuff is expensive for every class.

[lone crescent]

This is nonsense, after and pre wipe the situation was the same, Northern Tunic drop rate is shit and if you don't know it means you don't play Barbarian. You could run 5 raids without finding one, not even grey

[bleak dagger]

Yeah please give this man all the loot he wants because he plays barbarian. You can run 5 raids without finding anything useful for anyone.

[lone crescent]

You just don't understand, it's not about finding something useful, you don't find Northern at all, the droprate is insanely low.
A green with awful loots is worth 300g cause it's impossible to find, a blue with +1 strength is worth 800g.

Armor for other classes is cheaper cause it's easier to find

The only real way to "consistently" get Northern Tunic is buying a grey from Armourer or gamble at Goblin Merchant@bleak dagger

[bleak dagger]

I have no idea what region you are playing but right now there are people selling tunics en mass. for example a green one with +3 all for 500. So I don't know why I am arguing with you about this.

[lone crescent]

I never found any Northern Tunic after wipe, not even a grey one, only looting players, the drop rate is scuffed

While finding armor gear for every other class is common

[wide hemlock]

its usually really cheap at the armourer

[lone crescent]

Yes but it's grey, if the rolls are bad it is better to run Savage for damage

Most of the people selling Northern Tunic just gambled at Goblin Merchant for easy money, cause they know it's overpriced

[blazing bough]

PLEASE MAKE AN 'ALL CLASSES' TRADING POST TO FIND ITEMS THAT WORK ON ALL CLASSES

[glacial schooner]

once again goblin caves full of rouges using hand crossbow to apply bleed and cheese from unreachable spots.

[lone crescent]

[late dome]

We gotta get reactions back in class chats

[ebon idol]

The reason for that is that reasonably you only find it in two places.

Only in large chests. Seeing how little large (not gold) chests exist/are looted and the fact no non barb would ever take one with them, amount of full nordic tunic in circulation is really low.

[abstract swallow]

Having only tiles, instead of tiles and weight, means that large items like and chests (vital to frontliner) are rarely looted
There's no balancing factor to inventory management, so you also always loot the smallest, highest value items possible, which creates hypersaturation of a few small items, undersupplies high value midsize items, and droughts of large sized items

The last of these is the most damning, since any class that relies on high rarity bases is basically screwed by design to always have their most important defensive slots be absurdly unsupported

[limpid summit]

guys i have a cool rework for campfire that might be cool

increase duration to 3 minutes, make it heal that resting hp but also give resting hp to your max hp allowing you to heal past what resting would, so like slower healing but lasts way longer

cause right now campfires feel wrong 10 seconds of a ton of healing

[bitter egret]

Not anything that changes the game in any way but increases usability. Lmk if you guys do or don't use shortcuts, I'm curious.
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/483689/game-launch-shortcut

[distant burrow]

how would you have time to sit at a campfire for 3 minutes?

[ebon idol]

It is also just that chest armor is just really dumb im drop locations

[limpid summit]

assuming your in a safe room theres like 11 min per match so 3 minutes to fully restore second wind spells hp and other things is fair for 3 minutes of time consider its takes 3 minutes to gain 60hp using the g rest

[distant burrow]

uhm i think even 1 min is too much

[ebon idol]

It is the same as (I am biased here because I am a cleric) maces. Like, axes and swords and bows and crossbows drop from enemies you kill.

[distant burrow]

noone would ever use it, i would just run clarity potions, instead of sitting down for 3 min

[ebon idol]

But flangled maces and morning star? Only in a few select small chests can they appear.

[slender snow]

I think any way to restore second wind would be great, even if it's painstaking to get

[cursive kayak]

campfire

[abstract swallow]

🔥

[keen walrus]

merchant vendors items should really be class specific, or atleast the one green item they get on refresh, for ppl who dont use trade chat. all wipe it has green items i cant even use for my class. nothing to spend my gold on.

[cursive kayak]

no bro

[ancient dagger]

bard should be able to gain xp and levels from using their instruments

[abstract swallow]

they can
Kill things and open chests with them

[lyric yew]

nah; I think shared party exp is a better fix if you're in range. but 1/10th of the value

[stray wasp]

Barbarian/Warlock are by far the worst classes in the game and need a serious buff

[sterile heron]

Suggestion for getting a party. The lobby should have some form of autosearch option or just be able to select multiple classes while filtering. Perhaps filtering to only allow one type of class while sending out mass invites so you dont end up a team of two of the invited class while inviting.

[stark oxide]

I think jumping while in combat should be penalized, as it makes combat super awkward and clunky. I would like limbs to receive full damage, instead of only 50%. https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/482280/combat-jumping-penalty

[main kernel]

Suggestion to have 2 voip keys, 1 for party voip, 1 for proximity public voip. Thoughts? Lemme check featureupvote for this

[shell knoll]

Can woodsman/weaponsmith consistently sell francisca axes? its already a burden/curse only having 2 as barb - we should have access to them frequently i.e how ranger can buy unlimited arrows..
OR make francisca axes recoverable after landing, why are arrows salvageable after firing but an axe is not?

[gaunt parcel]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/483715/hideout-and-upgrade-system Pls go upvote. good idea tbh

[ancient dagger]

It doesn’t seem fair that I’m already level 15 and my bard is only level 4 because he just buffs me, bards should get xp for buffing

[main kernel]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/483724/2-voip-keys-1-for-party-and-1-for-proximity
Upvote for sneaky party voip and mischievous proximity voip at the same time!

[livid mesa]

BUFF CHEATERS

[next pumice]

We need duos im just getting shit on with my girlfriend

[main kernel]

Sounds kinky

[slow raven]

could we have a push to talk option?
instead of what it currently is which is push to toggle voip it would be hold to keep voip on

[granite plinth]

Exactly how would encouraging people to go to high roller with end game gear kill the game? You must be one of the people who can only win by an astronomically unfair advantage.
Fighters are not op in themselves, fighters in top gear. With a skilled bard and cleric are when they become borderline unkillable. So yeah I’m obviously not playing the same game you are

[onyx minnow]

Sounds like she should get a second boyfriend

[hot estuary]

Remove trading entirely

[abstract swallow]

Holy shit duos, are you out of your minds?
This is the FOURTH NEW QUEUE YOUVE ADDED WITHOUT FINISHING THE BASE GAME MODE

[muted dock]

I believe this is a good compromise without splitting up the playerbase to much. https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/483343/expand-goblin-caves-and-make-it-soloduo

[granite plinth]

what queue ? in eu you can get a game like instantly

[abstract swallow]

Every game mode but low roller GC and Crypts is dead outside of US E/W and EU during their prime times
They've killed HR with this shit, I've had one full lobby in US-E and and none in Sao Paulo since the weekend ended

[granite plinth]

@abstract swallow yeah i think the problem is people taking high teir gear and farming money early wipe. theyre not interested in high roller just yet but more in standard hell boss.

it will pick up later in wipe

[analog silo]

They will have to rotate maps intead of all them being able to queue, so u got the player base stack

[granite plinth]

yeah map rotation would work too

[abstract swallow]

They've cranked up the drop rates so much that you don't even have to do HR to assemble a full purple/blue kit anymore
By the time my rogue was level 5 he had two purple daggers, a purple hood, blue armor and cloak
Why ever go to HR when you can drop a purple +all weapon off a wraith in LR?

Map rotation is a really good idea though

[granite plinth]

@abstract swallow exactly. now, in reference to another point i made.

Imagine if with all this gear, purple and higher.
You could only use it in high roller ?

So you either sell it, and keep playing casual. Or you and your boys put on your best suit and go high roller.

i think it would be a nice way of 1- stopping purple geared 3 mans, killing grey geared duos

2 - re populating high roller.

but just a thought.

I do agree with what youre saying

[wise turtle]

Players should be able to change perks/skills while resting by a campfire

[abstract swallow]

A hard gearlock is just asking for the gamemode to get farmed by people abusing the threshold (and punishes melees/frontliner who are dependent on high rarity bases for defensive scaling and mobility), but there does need to be discouragement of using big gear in little ponds.
Durability is an answer someone convinced me of a while ago, even though I hated the idea at first. (Better gear is more expensive to run, so kits are built lean and encourage you to tackle harder and more lucrative, not safer content)
But that alone wouldn't fix it, you'd also need Floor 1 back to slow down general progression and loot nerfs across the board (making GC F1.5 loot especially) to make HR worthwhile risk and reward

[granite plinth]

@abstract swallow yeah its a tough question to answer to be honest, Just glad we could agree on the problem.

And i think no matter what the devs would do to combat the problem. there will always be a cheesey way that the gamers find. its just what they do.

Hopefully they address the high roller distribution of players soon.

But i strongly believe youre losing more players, when duos are just constantly being shit on by 3 man meta sweat heads.

having duo matchmaking will keep more players than it looses

plus theyre just trialing it 🙂 so im sure if it has a negative impact, it will be removed

[abstract swallow]

Duos are being shot on by 3s because the healthy ecosystem of solos, duos, and trios that the Portal system was built around, rewarding smaller groups with safer, earlier exfil was completely destroyed by goblin caves.

The problem with juiced kits can also be fixed by making rarity scale with diminishing returns and limiting magic item rolls other than stats and AR to 2-3 non jewelry slots each, which would make "this guy having a purple sword does four times my damage on headshot" syndrome much less gamebreaking

[grand crypt]

Add duo mode!

[granite plinth]

they are @grand crypt 😄

[grand crypt]

confirmed?

[granite plinth]

@grand crypt bro read the announcements

[glacial sphinx]

Duos is a mistake just like solos was imo. The normal maps become more and more sweaty this way and more content is effectively locked off from different sized or less optimal groups because of it

[eternal nebula]

Remove spears from rangers

[arctic lagoon]

they neeeed to fix the ability for ranged enemies to shoot through walls or corners

[abstract swallow]

They desperately need at least some kind of map rotation.
Forgotten Castle, FC High Roller, and then a daily gamemode. Maybe two on weekends.

Not only is the queue splitting bad for the game and its balance, it creates dead content that is not only simple to farm and bypass all progression play, but easy to bot to boot

[odd saffron]

🇺 🇳 🇱 🇴 🇨 🇰 🔓 🇨 🇱 🇦 🇸 🇸 🇹 🇷 🇦 🇮 🇳 🇮 🇳 🇬

[stark oxide]

I think jumping while in combat should be penalized, as it makes combat super awkward and clunky. I would like limbs to receive full damage, instead of only 50%. https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/482280/combat-jumping-penalty

[final oasis]

perk to pick up traps for ranger please

[arctic lagoon]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/483794/buff-viking-sword-and-other-barb-weapons-nerf-horseman-axe other weapons need buffs

[ember ivy]

Can we get the ability to sort Inventory while interacting? Not changing equipped weapons, but like sitting just reorg, and rotate things!

[lusty fractal]

LOL

[untold stream]

The splitting of the player base has created 3 different game modes, and none of them feel like the gamemode created by ironmace in the early playtests.
Crypts are in such bad state that there is people asking for a duo map, because it doesnt feel fair. Crypts feel unfair because only geared trios are going in, and this ecosystem was created by the goblin caves:

• Solos go to goblin caves, crypt is harder for solos as there is fewer solos in there.
• Duos have a harder time because there are fewer solos
• People stop playing as duos, and just play goblin cave until they have gear and/or a third member
  This is not a slippery slope fallacy, IT ALREADY HAPPENED.

What made dark and darker unique was that it was an ecosystem where you had to figure out how to survive. Now its just a 3v3v3 game which you cannot play until you have farmed 1v1v1. And both sucks.
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/483301/avoid-splitting-the-player-base

[odd saffron]

🇺 🇳 🇱 🇴 🇨 🇰 🔓 🇨 🇱 🇦 🇸 🇸 🇹 🇷 🇦 🇮 🇳 🇮 🇳 🇬

[stuck perch]

Classes that are supposed to be tanky just don't have enough health to not feel like paper when taking hits from classes like rangers and wizards. It's fine that rangers and wizards can burst other wizards, rangers and rogues even bards fairly easily with a spell or two, 2 to 3 arrows ect.

Fighters and Barbs should be able to take more and not feel like they're made of paper. Increasing the health from strength to something like a flat "50hp + 5*str" would let strength give sizable health, provide additional value for str compared to agi and feel better without just nerfing all burst damage and dps across the board.

This would set the naked health of the fighter at 125hp and barbarian at 200hp. The maximum health you could get if you maxed str (at 100 str) would be 550 which is something pretty hard to do since you only have so many item slots and the amount of stats you currently get from items. Other classes with get a few extra points of health, but that's about it.

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/483802/increase-the-health-provided-by-strength-this-will-help-balance-damage-in-turn

[abstract swallow]

Props for being the one to finally make the suggestion

[honest flame]

They should at least try it for a wipe, I’m tired of running goblin caves for money to then run trios

[untold stream]

its how it worked in early playtests, and it worked really really well
depending on your team size and gear, you could have to play carefully and stay undetected, or just steamroll anything you find, now every single game feels the same

[stuck perch]

I agree, I think the high geared player problem is also compounded by the fact that they increased the player cap to 18 in the crypts map. Making the map feel overcrowded when there are heavily geared players and still undercrowded when there are a handful of under geared or new players because those low geared players are the ones dying to mobs and traps, leaving the late match fights to have a higher proportion of heavily geared players.

[abstract swallow]

Crypts already had a system for making solo/duo/trio mixes fair: portals.
Teams would naturally slim down or have to spread out to contest multiple portals, while smaller teams could navigate and exfil more easily.

Goblin caves were fun at first, but now they're just a training wheels zone with an okay boss, and they're gobbling up the lion's share of players for all the wrong reasons.

GC killed solos, which killed duos, which killed under geared trios, which killed HR.

[untold stream]

yesssss, players that came with the EA will think removing solo queue will make the game harder for them, but its quite the opposite, it would make crypts easier
noone is stoping top gear player going into goblin caves, or people teaming up (which its ok in my book)
but my point is that trying to fix an issue they created a lot of other issues that shake the core concept of the game
so vote! https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/483301/avoid-splitting-the-player-base

[stuck perch]

I'm glad people are finally waking up to this. And Ironmace should fix the problem at it's root instead of creating additional queues and maps that apply the same failing mentality. We need to keep talking about this so we can reach enough people to have Ironmace address this.

[untold stream]

100% agree
share the suggestion link, and post it with a brief explanation as its not 100% clear at a glance unfortunatelly

[abstract swallow]

I'll be honest, the f2p nature of the playtests did a lot to hide just how much damage Goblin Caves did to the game

The moment the paywall went up, I've had less and less good HR lobbies and it's really making me worry for the game

[gaunt vessel]

What's the best one hander(s) to use for fighter right now?

[stuck perch]

Now I want to join a discord or community of people who think like this so we can better organize and better explain things both to Ironmace and new players who are confused when they only see the surface symptoms that this design choice created.

[stuck perch]

Falchion is currently pretty popular, but anything with a high damage would work.

[untold stream]

i dont think you need another community, just bring it up in this discord

[prisma lynx]

I also agree that solos are fundamentally bad for the game. It really saddens me that even though the game has been so successful since the beginning, many push for fundamental changes like solo queue and MMR just to make it easier for them. At the detriment of the game as a whole instead of them working on improving their ability to succeed in the game

[stuck perch]

This and the decision to set spawns across all the rooms as opposed to adjacent rooms only are the two decisions that caused the game to lose most of it's charm compared to the game I fell in love with when I tried it for the first time last Christmas. Back then I thought this was going to be the last game I'd play without being dragged into something by a friend.

[abstract swallow]

The spawn thing needed to happen (you can blame me for this), but the FOUR maps they've made since should have been efforts dedicated to redoing crypts with real spawns.

[untold stream]

they made a step in the right direction with ruins being the first level, then crypts then hell
but failed the mark so bad with the implementation of ruins that they had to remove it..... but instead of removing it completely, they created a different gamemode, which created new problems

[stuck perch]

I know the spawn thing was created to counter an issue, but that issue could have been handled differently. For example creating obstacles to lateral movement, like traps or destructibles that slow down teams seeking to rush spawns. Locking in everyone into their spawns until the game had a chance to finished loading for everyone for example.

[abstract swallow]

Crypts not having ANY of the spawns changed so the more aggressive elite/nightmare enemies we're wiping teams in their spawn rooms was a huge issue, but blue Crypts flowed incredibly well and ruins stairs for infinite downs was an incredible idea that just... needed to be signposted literally anywhere.

[prisma lynx]

When they added separate solo queue, the game became way more of a grind. Duo queue got obliterated and is now totally not fun and it is super hard to play solo on anything other than goblin caves 😦

[abstract swallow]

Yeah, the maps needed to be better designed (Blue Crypts actually got close to this, building the dungeon out in a snowflake/web pattern but keeping too many interior spawns) and there needed to be at least a short window before you could book it out of spawn.

[stuck perch]

The problem with blue crypts really was A) the lightning and B) the amount of time it took waiting for the stairs to open in ruins for crypts to open.

[untold stream]

go to #game-discussion and let people know this is the way

[stuck perch]

Spawning inside the spawn rooms they had before they added spawns in every room solved the issue of spawning too close to monsters.

[abstract swallow]

Yep.
Spiderweb map with more branches than there were 3stack spawns was an EXCELLENT design, they just needed to follow through with it

[stuck perch]

It was, and I still think back and miss those starts. Even back then I found it not too difficult to outplay spawn rushers and evade them too.

[abstract swallow]

Spawn rushing was an issue not just because it was too fast and accessible (the threat of it was actually very healthy for the game because it emphasized clear speed and map control and discreet navigation), it was that you were guaranteed to be not just potentially pinched by a 3rd team but within earshot of MULTIPLE teams

[copper garden]

disable the ability to make a trade if you can't pay the fee

[potent ocean]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/483587/reduce-audio-warlockwizard-sound-spell

[glacial sphinx]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/483838/reconsider-the-addition-of-solo-and-duo-queues

1000 letters kind of short to express every thought properly but yeah

[gentle cradle]

I would love a 'push to mute' button rather than/or in addition to a 'push to talk', it's a very different set-up that allows for much more fluid gameplay as you can essentially toggle if your mic is hot rather than holding down 'push to talk' while you need to make in game moves. PLEASE ADD 'push to mute'

[untold stream]

related: https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/483301/avoid-splitting-the-player-base

[rare sparrow]

you should have a slow down when punching. shouldnt be able to spam punch and run towards ppl without slowing down

[abstract swallow]

You do have slowdown while punching, open the stats screen during

[tulip hill]

interesting, never really considered the reverse
if they don't/until they add this as an option you could use a keybind program (assuming it doesn't conflict with ToS but idk why it would) to have your push to talk input reversed

[rare sparrow]

it isnt slow enough then. i was geared rogue sheathed weapons running from barb who I could not get distance from while he was constantly punching and also buffed but still. fastest class cant run away from barb even when barb is a little buffed? doesn't seem right

[tulip hill]

what armor were you wearing and what buff did they have?

[abstract swallow]

If you are being beaten to death by an unarmed man, as the fastest class in the game, it is purely because of misplay
Also, quit backpedaling.

[tulip hill]

doubt they were backpedaling if they were sheathed and running away

[rare sparrow]

as expected. know nothing and call it skill issue. wasnt backpedaling. purely running forward with no weapon equipped and a pretty geared barb following me with cleric buffs i belive. literally did not have time to shut doors because i could not get any distance running straight forward

[gentle cradle]

ive been trying to set up the push to mute but i dont know how to do it w a behind the scenes keybind

[rare sparrow]

probably spent 30-40 seconds just running straight through the dungeon and got pretty lucky with doors being opened otherwise would have just died way faster. not really upset over dying. just kinda surprised because i have never seen a barb move that fast

i play solo so i think i am pretty good at disengaging lol. because i would just lose most fights. i certainly could have done things better but was just surprised how close the barb stayed over the course of a decent chase

[abstract swallow]

A barb moves at a normal pace when at 15 AGI and starts with boots, not all of them are 2h axe W+M1 bozos.

[rare sparrow]

agree but i think that is a bit much. tankiest class capable of highest single target damage with one hit can move just as fast as the fastest class in the game? idk about that

[tulip hill]

yeah, the actual speed difference between classes isn't that big, its only when you start equipping armor and wielding weapons do the gaps widen, not to mention a few of the classes have access to some kind of speed boost

[arctic lagoon]

wizards if they get buffed to insane levels can turn any barb into a literal rolling wrecking ball

[rare sparrow]

yeah i believe they were running cleric warlock barb but regardless agree. just didnt expect to be running for like 30 seconds and then have the barb just on my ass

[arctic lagoon]

ive been on the bad end of it, its frustrating seeing a barb with a horseman axe cleave my head open because a wizard is up their butt with buffs

[tulip hill]

yeah but thats less to do with barb and more to do with buffs being very strong in general

[arctic lagoon]

i honestly feel, casting buffs need to be a cool down and not a spam option. while damage spells are not on one

[abstract swallow]

I mean, he didn't need to use fists?
He could have just hit you with one Franc and been done with it, especially if he had Rage off CD.
Fists "not slowing down enough" when they already take nearly a full second to connect at incredibly short range is just a miserable take.

But at least you're not a 'nerf falchion' guy.

[arctic lagoon]

there is good reason for buffs/heals/shield casts need to be on a cool down because its unfair if someone can just keep casting on some dude whos got 50 buffs on like a mmorpg

[tulip hill]

not sure I like the idea of some spells being on a built in cooldown while others don't have one
seems like a very clumsy way to fix the problem

[rare sparrow]

if he did not sheath weapon i would have escaped. dodged franciscas. could take three seconds for the fists to connect but it does not matter when you don't slow down enough for the attack to miss. im fine with fists but i should not get killed after being punched three times as a decently geared rogue then. the dude is punching me, not swinging a baseball bat

[arctic lagoon]

damage spells like magic missile or zap should not be cooled down, but spells like shield, haste, and others should be.

the reason why bard is way more balanced than the others is casting time, it takes more effort to give a good buff than just holding down m2

he has cooldown, just not in the conventional way

[tulip hill]

interesting take to equate casting time to a cooldown, one that I don't fully disagree with
adjusting the casting time of buff spells is definitely a less intrusive way to address the problem

[arctic lagoon]

plus like i can bet most wizards will invest in casting time reduction, id say the more the spell costs to put in a slot the more time it should take

[tulip hill]

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure every spell has their own independent base cast time

[rare sparrow]

whole point of rogue is to be able to run away. not always but just really surprised it was barb who got me. the barb prolly just had constant buffs but the rest of his team was way behind him. just a suggestion. probably not likely to even be considered guess I just underestimated the speed of a barb. not like i could have done anything really lol. i was done from the start

[arctic lagoon]

it is but its not as big as bard

wizard - differences in casting time is a few seconds
bard - some spells take a good 10 seconds to cast

[tulip hill]

do keep in mind though that bard's spells target multiple people
each cast of a buff is hitting the bard and potentially both their allies so they are basically casting the buff 3 times at once

[arctic lagoon]

while true wizards i feel are more potent and scale way harder

[livid mesa]

BUFF CHEATERS

[soft acorn]

DEVS maybe add option to write a short note while reporting players? I think it could help you + add third option for sniping and teaming up in goblin caves

[tulip hill]

well lets compare haste to what bard has access to
Haste gives a flat 12% Action and Movement speed buff with a base duration of 12 seconds
bard can have beats of Alacrity up well before a conflict with up to 120 seconds of duration which gives flat 25 movement speed that comes out to about 8%
on top of that they can play accelerando which has the same duration as haste and gives up to another 27 flat movement speed
or allegro which again has 12 second duration and gives up to 18% additional action and spellcasting speed
so if we assume they already have Beats of Alacrity up and they start the fight off with Allegro they can apply about 8% movement speed and 18% action/spell speed to their team in about the time it takes an comparably geared wizard takes to cast Haste on their team
and now that I write all that out, I feel as if Wizard's haste and those two drum songs are pretty comparable in the short term, though with the scaling nerfs to bard's damage wizard takes the cake for offensive power but at the same time Bard offers a lot more than just those two buffs

oh, that's not even mentioning the downtime wizards have to take in order to regain spells, though that balancing point does not supersede the importance of balance in the moments of an actual fight

[granite plinth]

🤓

[normal nova]

lol bro it's not even comparable a wizard with barely any investment is killing people in less than a second
it's apples and oranges
one is a support class other is glass cannon

[obsidian nest]

2 goblin cave games in a row I have to fight against players teaming up against me. Is this allowed? I pretty much only play the game solo, so I love goblin cave. This is genuinely ruining my experience.

[tulip hill]

I'm comparing haste to similar buffs available to another class, I'm not comparing the two classes directly
that is the point of the last two sentences, it is highlighting that outside of the above buffs the two classes are extremely different

[tawny lagoon]

How is a wizard with no investment killing someone in less than a second?

[normal nova]

barely any investment != no investment
get some +add magic dmg items
cast magic missiles
profit

part of the issue also though is that there isn't a consistent way to actually stack magic resist atm vs how you can vs physical dmg

[tulip hill]

if it requires specific gear, what are you defining as "no investment"

[nimble haven]

Coming in here again, to ask for nerfs on fighters. Literally the busted class in game...thankyou

[tulip hill]

first off, rude
secondly, the only thing you have said about the amount of investment needed is its "barely any" which is equally as vague
thirdly, I dislike playing wizard, I don't find caster gameplay fun (actually warlock is fun for me but not the others)
so I'll ask the question more specifically, what budget do you personally call barely any/no investment?

[tawny lagoon]

No good player ever gets dropped by mm tbh, it is not even the real menace of wizard, even tho it has the most dps as you stated. Right now wizard need at least 3-4 spells with barely any investment to drop someone, which is way more than a few seconds

[toxic shell]

think its time to just remove the long sword

[nova snow]

Have you tried not getting parried?

[tulip hill]

you don't really see longsword as often as you use to, I for one have never had an issue with them

[toxic shell]

well thats dumb considering there is a number of weapons that no matter what get parried

[abstract swallow]

Okay nevermind the guy that got punched to death by the slowest class in the game as rogue, this is my favorite skill issue suggestion of the day

[toxic shell]

lmao !!!! your funny 🙂

[nova snow]

You have the ability to swing lower then their sword with a crouch and look down.

[toxic shell]

sure with certain weapons

[tulip hill]

I think cleric actually takes the cake for being the slowest

[nova snow]

No with all weapons, there are none that always get parried.

[arctic lagoon]

horseman axe has a real good chance at not getting parried tbh

[tulip hill]

I will say most overheads are very easy to parry and very hard to land on a longsword who is trying to block it

[nova snow]

Overheads are easy to parry if they don't take the time to just ya know, not swing at your head

[tulip hill]

yeah but then if the longsword user has good reactions and relises you're trying to redirect the hit they can quickly start a stab and trade damage in their favour
longsword straight up just has the advantage in that fight, but at the same time longswords are weak to thrusting weapons

[ebon idol]

Longswords have a hard time parrying orbital space lasers

[tulip hill]

Judgement?

[ebon idol]

Yes

[tulip hill]

fair point
maces might be easy to parry but cleric can just ask god to deal with it

[arctic lagoon]

hot take, judgement should be a spell not an ability

[solid falcon]

there should be a duo dungeon

[ebon idol]

Judgement would not work very well as a spell

[tulip hill]

you could say that about most of cleric's abilities

in fact smite and divine strike are extremely similar effects

[ebon idol]

The gimmik about judgement is that it lock on to you, and the counterplay is running out of range before the timer runs out. It has quite the low range as an exchange. Idk how that would work as a spell.

[tulip hill]

too bad at higher gear levels the cleric's cast time is so short you don't even get the chance to get out of range

[ebon idol]

Yes, however that doesn't change why it wouldn't work as a spell.

[arctic lagoon]

it honestly should be curved on how much gear affects abilities

[abstract swallow]

It just needs to be a 4sec DoT and slow that breaks on range, rather than burst damage

Fulfills the same role as a deterrent without being an oppressive insta-trade

[ebon idol]

Like a paladins DnD ability "Compelled Duel", you get slowed by 50% when you don't walk towards the cleric?

[obtuse lichen]

Who cares about judgment if you can just use holy strike and it's insane

[tulip hill]

so true, mechanically it would be a very awkward spell, but honestly I could see it working similiarly to magic missle

[ebon idol]

That would actually be a great spell. Hinders you from fleeing, but you are still free to fight the cleric

30s debuff, you get slowed by 50% unless you are in 5m around the cleric.

Would really help clerics lack of ranged weaponry and being slow af.

[tulip hill]

probably better to have a tether that when broken applies the slow rather than trying to apply a slow whenever they are currently walking away

[ebon idol]

So like this, basically. Get slowed unless in 5m around the cleric.

Else the meta would be "Cast it on max range and walk away to apply a slow"

[tulip hill]

if it was a constant effect I can just imagine someone who is faster than the cleric trying to get away but they just end up being constantly 5 meters away as their speed flickers back and forth

[compact barn]

Judgment being a DoT would be the best change

[ebon idol]

If you play solo, that is true. But think about teams, too. You need to keep close to the cleric or be slowed and easy prey for their mates

It would be interesting to see how the community plays around with a spell like this. Both versions have their appeal.

[abstract swallow]

That's the purpose of judgement, to create actual risk for diving their backline.

[ebon idol]

It is also a slow so the cleric can get a hit in. They are so slow you can usually just kite them forever.

[arctic lagoon]

yeah but in its current state of being so affected by their current setup it becomes a nuke button

[tulip hill]

yeah
I think the DoT judgement has potential
perhaps to make it more of a deterrent ability they could have it so it stacks a DoT as a holy light gets brighter and brighter on the target

[ebon idol]

But as a DoT, it will not be much of a deterrent. They will just dive and smack you because they know it won't have any chance to burst them.

[arctic lagoon]

could be also a damage amplifier

[ebon idol]

So basically like a weakpoint, where their armor is reduced?

[arctic lagoon]

yes, but instead of melee its a ranged one

[tulip hill]

well that's why I suggest it quickly stacks up
basically each tick does more than the last because you have more stacks

[ebon idol]

Doubt barbarians would care for that a lot. Then again, they never do.

[atomic whale]

fix goblin mage

[tulip hill]

what's the problem with goblin mage?

[arctic lagoon]

suggestion for wizard, a perk that grants the weapon youre holding a quality of the spell you casted. ice, lightning, fire, so on

[atomic whale]

spining ballls around yyou ?

[arctic lagoon]

also insane damage from a small spell

[arctic lagoon]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/483898/perk-idea-for-wizard-elemental-infusion

[tulip hill]

the projectile has tracking, yes, think of it like a magic missile that has gravity
there are times where I feel like I should have dodged it but its very easy to lose sight of the projectile I can never be sure if it was bull or not

[hollow sentinel]

Fix the lag please it's so bad right now

[old jackal]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/483888/percentage-based-recoverable-hp plz vote 😍

[tulip hill]

I like the core idea of infusing yourself with the element of the last spell you cast, though I do have a couple problems with the specifics of the suggestion
Light's infusion is questionable, glowing like a torch whenever you cast zap (which is a light spell) seems like it would cause more harm than good in many situations
also while Ice Bolt is the only spell in the category, I believe its actually water type spells, so that infusion might need some rethinking
you made no mention of an effect for arcane spells

I'd probably do something like
Light - The next spell causes the target to glow for [seconds]
Fire - The next spell burns the target for [amount]
Lightning - The next spell has [amount] increased cast speed
Arcane - The next spell regains [amount] spell points
Water - The next spell...actually I'm not sure what a good effect for water would be

[tulip hill]

agreed
I don't play barb much but a buddy of mine does and he has voiced the same concern

[arctic lagoon]

Water could make it have a bigger effect around it, but i also wanna give crystal sword users a more fair chance, cuz its such a cool weapon but is way too overshadowed by balls and books

Could give crystal sword the inate ability of element infusions

[tulip hill]

oh that's fair
maybe the perk should be geared more towards enhancing martial ability rather than a spell weaving type perk
though I feel like Ball and Dagger would still overshadow sword in this case-
oh! actually why not have a perk specifically for the crystal sword, other classes have weapon specific perks

[arctic lagoon]

truuue

[hollow bone]

Can we just remove bard from the game entirely? im beyond tired of being deleted by songs while i cant even catch the guy playing them. Game has felt horrible pvp wise since this class has been implemented.

[weary geyser]

friendlist please 😭

inspect option for party members,

[stoic pier]

It literally makes no sense to run armor on barbarian. you can't block PvE so you have to evade everything, but you move painfully slow with armor. Other armored classes can make up for this with shields which barbs can't. so it only makes sense to build barb for speed atm. barb needs base speed buff so it makes sense to run armor.

[delicate kraken]

make warlock spells not feel like complete shit to cast

[final pasture]

use a crossbow

[tulip hill]

not exactly sure what it would do to PvP balance but it would make sense for barbarian to have access to the round shield, even if as a perk
barbarian draws a lot from nordic and viking arms and armour and such warriors were known for their extensive use of the round shield
outside of that, barbs do have the bardiche and quarterstaff which do have blocking mechanics, though they can be quite hard to use effectively

[tulip hill]

I think they may be referring to being hit through walls so a crossbow wouldn't be much help in that case

[glacial moon]

Nerf rogues - I dont care - Just nerf them to shit. But at least give us the ability to buy a handbow crossbow from vendors and some throwing knifes..!! Fix game pls. You can't face fight any class in-game as rogue, all u can do is wait for vendors to get handbow crossbow or throwing knifes. I need like 3 rogues at this point because of vendors are selling nothing i need 24/7 - What is the god damn problem! All the other class cry over this or what?

[final pasture]

then just walk away from the wall

[arctic lagoon]

thats not how walls are supposed to work

[tulip hill]

🤷 still, I understand the frustration
back when I was learning bard I took him into the goblin caves and accidentally killed so many people that I didn't even know existed

[arctic lagoon]

line of sight should be a bard thing, no offense to bards but sometimes being accidentally killed through walls is not fun

also, anyone experience enemies shooting projectiles through walls?

[tulip hill]

I seen it very rarely, generally when they are right up against the wall so I assume the actual projectile is spawning in the wall and flying out the other side

[arctic lagoon]

ive been killed by a skeleton mage, seen dragonflys do it so many times its annoying

[tulip hill]

oh yeah! dragonflies do it pretty often now that you reminded me

[arctic lagoon]

nerd biologist thing, but dragonflies dont spit acid??? they just fly at to attack prey.

[tulip hill]

and skeletons don't walk around attacking people
🤷 its a fantasy creature that just so happens to look like a dragonfly

[stuck perch]

Duo queue is a bad thing for the main game. The main game got noticeably worse when they added solo queue, now it's only going to be more so.

[tulip hill]

worse how?

[stuck perch]

Why are you standing next to a wall while a bard plays his music? Granted there's a bug where players aren't hearing the bard play his music all the time. But in general if you hear a bard play drums or flute don't stand next to the wall or under/above them.

[arctic lagoon]

guessing where the enemy is, is hard. especially since there are audio bugs that cause a lot of issues

needle in a hay maze basically

[worn agate]

Can bard please gain access to ruby silver leather cap thanks!

[tulip hill]

oh speaking of the maze, imagine trying to avoid getting hit by a bard song in there

[untold stream]

game went from going into a dungeon and not knowing what you will encounter, to "goblin cave for solos", "crypt for trios"
if you started playing on EA, you might think this is common sense and reasonable, but the devs had in mind the core idea of a multi level dungeon where everyone went in no matter your equipment or party size
thats how the earlier playtests worked, and it made the game more enjoable as you had to gauge every encounter, not knowing if you would have the upper hand or not
it also made it easier to play solo on the crypt as it was not rare to find other solo player or undergeared duos

now its all about farming goblin caves solo, then playing as a trio in the crypt, the experience has been made more dull and uninteresting in my opinion

[stuck perch]

• 3s map, being the main game used to be survivable as a solo player or as a duo.
• Now the player base is divided amongst solo and 3s queue with barely any solo players in the 3s queue
• Solo queue is being farmed for gear then that gear is brought into other maps to dominate. Especially Cobalt and Rubysilver ore mining. Something similar will happen with duos, with either gear farmed from solo brought into duos and 3s or gear farmed from duos brought into the other two maps depending on what is easier.
• Solo players are de-incentivizes from joining the crypts as a solo player, the presence of a duo queue would likewise further de-incentivize solo players, and also duo players from joining crypts. All of this further cements the crypts and ruins as a 3s only map.
• Makes things more difficult for balance, requiring balancing for both solo, trio queues and now duo queues.
• Takes dev time away from current 3s map and additional 3s maps, especially deeper maps which could alleviate the problem of bored geared players.
• Solo and duos were always in the game, in the crypts. It was even viable before.
  If they were going to add different sizes for teams, it should be stuff that's not possible in 3s like a map for teams of 5s.

[stuck perch]

💯

[tulip hill]

fair point
outside of a few classes going solo into the crypt is asking to die
and even among the classes that can preform well alone in the crypt I think rogue and ranger are the only two that can pull it off well in their default kits

[stuck perch]

Prior to solo queue I would regularly do solo fighter and solo wizard in the crypt and still get out a good chunk of the time.

[untold stream]

in the current status, definetely
as i mentioned, it was easier before the addition of goblin caves, using the dark to slow down biger parties had a huge role, and made the game unique... now its just... meh

[tulip hill]

yeah, cause as long as you didn't run into a 3 man you had a good chance to survive PvP encounters
but with many solo players hanging out in the goblin caves it has made the crypt population is a lot more trio dense

[untold stream]

exactly

[stuck perch]

That and the increase in player density. It used to be that the crypts were a 16 player map. This means that most you had 5 teams of 3 and at least 1 solo, but in practice you had some odd combination of solos, duos and trios.

[untold stream]

sad thing is a lot of player came with the EA, and never player early playtests, thinking this is the norm, and removing or reworking goblin caves would ruin the game for solo players... and I think it would do the opposite, in my opinion, i love solo crypts

[tulip hill]

oh yeah! I forgot they increased the lobby cap

[stuck perch]

Indeed. What about making the crypt stack (ruins/crypts/inferno) 16 player maps 3s map. Then taking the goblin caves and increasing it's difficulty a fair bit and making it roughly as hard as inferno. Then it's not a low level/new player viable map, so they learn to cut their teeth on the crypt stack and can move on when they're ready without completely removing it from the game.

Also scrap the duo map and give us a 5s map. If solos can learn to survive the crypt, so can duos. We don't have an option for teams of 5s and most classic dungeon delving parties are 5 to 6 members and sometimes as much as 8 or 9.

[untold stream]

i would mind goblin caves bieng a side level, like ruins being the fist level (but being way way easier and survivable), and having 3 exit portals: end expedition, crypt, and goblin caves
i don't know, i'd stick to the original idea, but completing a map just to discard it sucks, but i dont see how it could fit

[tulip hill]

what are yall thoughts on instead of player limits in a lobby it was party limits?
so instead of 18 players in a game it was 6 parties
that way lobbies with solos and duos in them have a lower population density

[stuck perch]

That would be a weird way of limiting it, although the number of portals would remain the same so I'd rather just limiting number of players.

[tulip hill]

fair fair

[stuck perch]

I'd rather they stick to the main concept as the entry into the game. Making the goblin caves more difficult serves to let players bored of the main game mode blow off some steam without it becoming the main entry point into the game for new players. Besides it has a boss and would be easily farmable without the difficulty increase.
Also if they got the time to waste on a duo queue, they should add a stack to the goblin caves being the forest before the caves.

[untold stream]

adding an entry fee like in HR would help too

[stuck perch]

If they want a higher player count but lower density they could also increase the number of map tiles, making the maps something like 7x7 up from 5x5 would also help, but they can't make the maximum player cap a multiple of 3. The way the tiles are built they can easily add more or re-assemble if they don't like the result.

[granite plinth]

add emotes for when youre sitting @dawn grotto

[tulip hill]

So if the game is going to eventually have 3 layers like they planned, what are your guy's thoughts on having the ability to drop off loot between floors?

[stuck perch]

Don't want it.
I want people to have to make the choice of either continuing for better loot or extracting with what they have. Gambling what you've found makes for an interesting dilemmas.

[untold stream]

this

[arctic lagoon]

Make it a small item box

Or misc items specifically

[silent aspen]

i do not think your issue is rogues needing a nerf... i think vendors just need to have shit our classes can use 24/7.
i was talking about this while QQ about no spellbooks for my warlock OR cleric for like 5 hours last night lol

[tulip hill]

fair point
I just feel like not enough people decide to go down
only time I do see it is people intending to kill the boss or those with no other choice

[arctic lagoon]

Id love to go down, im just terrified of going alone

Also i feel like im just not skilled enough to handle the demon centaurs

Does the loot get better down there?

[tulip hill]

yeah, its better down there, though still very much a gamble if its worth it
bad rng can get you killed depending on your class because some rooms are just hell to clear if you don't have range

[glacial moon]

Yeah that's so stupid tbh i donno why this is not a thing yet. It's like how hard can that be to put into the game. Apparently there are more important things and i understand that but common you not put new items into a game without adjusting vendors ect.

[arctic lagoon]

There needs to be a selection option, like a tab for each weapons/gear

[glacial moon]

There already are in trade

[charred owl]

Allowing fully geared players in cloaks and jewelry into goblins with defaults is toxic, they need to split this shit up

[strong cloak]

WHAT YOU THINKL? Is good to REMOVE bard???

[tulip hill]

I'm curious, what are your thoughts on players with that amount of gear going solo into normal crypt?

[charred owl]

That's fine imo, goblins is where new players and low geared players get gear. Having people slaughter you in blues and purps while I'm in all grays seems poorly designed

[stuck perch]

Reduce the blue portals, they increased them when they increased the player size. If you have less easy escapes, you'll get more people going down out of disperation.

[charred owl]

We should strengthen the ability for new players to grow and learn. If you're level 1 with no gear and perks in all default against a experienced geared out maxed player you have almost no chance of getting to learn.

And it seems like every lobby has 2 full kitted players who knowing exploit this to farm.

[short heath]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/472659/matchmaking-balance-calculation-suggestion

[untold stream]

the next logical step after including solo queue and duos lol

[stuck perch]

Goblins should not be where new players and low players get gear. New players should be introduced to the main intended game mode which is ruins/crypt/infernal, whether they do so solo, in duo or trios.

[charred owl]

How would that make more sense? You need more players, giving you more opportunity to disadvantage, especially when talking about competing against max level kitted teams

[short heath]

There is no "main intended game mode". That's why there are multiple options both for no-ante and HR lobbies on each map. Don't put false pretenses onto the game based on your preference and idea.

[stuck perch]

Let's not hold the devs to their initial game concept.

[short heath]

You're literally putting claims onto an EA game about an intended game mode when there are, very clearly, multiple, fully intended game modes, that are not the one you speak of.

[stuck perch]

When the devs came up with their initial concept there was no such thing. It was specifically only the b1/b2/b3 concept that was ruins, crypt, and inferno. Everything else was tacked on after. Often to the detriment of the main concept.

[south sierra]

Suggestion : please a stats page where we can see our survival rates, kills number, headhots number etc etc

[short heath]

Yes, because everything but an initial concept is trash. What a dense take.

[stuck perch]

The initial concept is what made this game break through in popularity. @untold stream am I right?

[charred owl]

Why even ask Ironmace? Let's go ask Nexon what their initial concept was? The game has evolved and will continue to do so, pretending like the initial concept is all that matters is silly

[short heath]

That doesn't justify thinking that there cannot possibly be something else they added or came up with that is good/better. Dense and shallow thinking.

Imagine if no game ever, especially MMORPGs, ever had any expansions. Dumb.

[untold stream]

imagine an MMORPG adding a single player expansion

[short heath]

You mean ESO and Skyrim?

[untold stream]

what the hell are you smoking lmao

[short heath]

Think about the concept but in reverse. And how both are successful in their own ways.

It applies both ways. You can have success applying that concept in multiple ways and forward and reverse.

[untold stream]

ok

[short heath]

If you can't connect the dots and realize the success that Skyrim had and ESO had and how they're similar concepts to implementing new ways to play already successful games, then you probably just don't have a conceptual mind. Especially after modding and online implementation, Skyrim saw a lot of traffic. ESO is a multi-player of a well-loved, formerly single-player series. You can do it both ways within the genre. In fact, EverQuest did this back in the 90/00s and it saw success as well. MMORPG into single player PS2 game, that is.

[untold stream]

sure

[stuck perch]

Skyrim isn't a single player mode for ESO, skyrim came out first then people wanted an MMO version of it. Even then, they're different games. While ESO is inspired from Skyrim they were both developed around different concepts ground up.

[untold stream]

dont even bother, any energy you use in explaining anything to him is better spent on 10 different people who actually can develop a coherent thought lol

[short heath]

I literally gave you morons an actual example and both of you ignore it, yet I'm the one who cannot develop coherent thoughts. Yes.

Conceptual design isn't a linear thing.

[stuck perch]

And what do you about game design?
Besides I addressed your example. Just making an assertion doesn't make you right.

[short heath]

Clearly more than you seem to know. And no, you didn't. You addressed the reverse conceptual adaptations that made ESO possible from Skyrim, not the forwards application of EQ into its PS2 single-player successor.

[slim ginkgo]

Bard does it all without thinking, make bard chose how to build rather than do it all. Give the chance for different skills to be useful.
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/483974/bard-rebalance-of-2-song-slots

[glacial moon]

Fix your dogshit game, this is NOT A SHOOTER GAME, remove headshot it's pathetic, also nerf corruption blow, wth where u developers thinking! Apparently its okay in this dogshit game to kill players with a headshot doing 200+ damage

[spice hinge]

Seriously nerf wizards they shouldnt be able to kill anyone with just a few magical damage rolls with a single spell from any range

[rare quiver]

if you think fighters aren't op you are simple just stupid

[glacial moon]

Most classes are OP asf bru tbh i dont think developer even knows what they are doing with some of the nerfs/perks n shit. Also it's like they think this game is a "first person shooter game" so they have headshot doing double damage, which means some classes are just doom'd.

Probally this, i don't even think they are playing, they just look what majority says even if the majority is trolls

[ebon ruin]

im talking about you brother

[glacial moon]

Nah i play and bitchin all i want - Btw we ain't brothers never will be.

[rare quiver]

When rangers and fighters one shot from across the room you know its a balance problem. Either give no class that range or give it to every class

[potent ocean]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/483587/reduce-audio-warlockwizard-sound-spell

[rare quiver]

Biggest training wheels classes

[glacial moon]

Well developers dont care about our opinion apparently they want game go to dogshit and keep nerfing things like rogue LUL

[rare quiver]

They are listening to the people that dont know lol. They are adding duod which will just divide and kill the playerbasw

[glacial moon]

No you can go to another channel. Or come with suggestions instead of saying bitching when someone is suggestion removal of "headshot" doing double damage like wth u already hit a head doing insane damage, apparently they think DOUBLE DAMAGE IS COOL

[ebon ruin]

its almost like getting hit in the face with an arrow would kill you

[rare quiver]

Bro atleast his name isn"t craig lmao. You can legally change ur name you know

[glacial moon]

It will kill you! You don't see the problem here 1 arrow kills you in head!

[rare quiver]

Your opinion is just irrelevant if your name is craig

[glacial moon]

LUL

[rare quiver]

So you choose to name yourself craig.? That is even worse

[glacial moon]

Now wasn't you the guy telling me that this was a suggestion channel and i should go in general? Tf u doing here kid! Keep argue without any purposes

[rare quiver]

Lil bro is triggered

[glacial moon]

Suggestion: Fix your dogshit game, remove headshot (double damage) it's pathethic and not needed in a game like this. This is not fk counter cheaters stike! This is dark and darker! It's silly you developers not realize this issue, you already have warlocks running around using corruption blow and 1 tap ppl. Like wth where u thinking? It's okay to go from 100hp rogue to 0 in 1 hit? Dogshit developers!

[tardy crystal]

how is duos going to divide the player base ? lol. you sound super mad about something that hasnt even been tested.. the matches are already SUPER fast. barely any waiting between games. i think you are just mad you wont get to roll over any people that cant find a third and a forced to play into a bunch of juiced out chads playing meta comps. if i cant find a third me and my buddy sit in discord and play goblin caves.. now we can just go into a duo lobby.

[zealous silo]

ranged pve doing a bit much of dmg, plus having 1/5shot being unavoidable, even going over obstacles, thing may be nerfed a bit? like weak melee can survive 2 arrows from pve maybe?!

[glacial moon]

Not to mention all the cheaters running ranged because it's even more easy just remember pt3 pt4

[tardy crystal]

so you dont think an arrow to the head should kill you ? im confused and you are saying this as a rogue player ? the class that can literally go invisible and kill any class with just a dagger in the back.

[hidden lotus]

Create an auction house instead of Trade chat, something simular to world of warcraft with a buy out or bid

[glacial moon]

Im saying 1 arrow in head shot not kill you! And rogues hide is dogshit compare to wizard and warlock

[scenic abyss]

It’s completely avoidable, just keep moving the same direction- don’t go back and forth, that’s when you get shot. PVE is easy once you learn the patterns, not to mention the mobs aren’t even randomised between rooms- y’all are just bad honestly

[rare quiver]

Oce population and adding duos = dead region. Happens on heaps of games like apex

[abstract swallow]

it divides the playerbase by segregating players into exclusive queues, which was already seen to devastating effect with Goblin Caves
GC killed solos in Crypt, which killed Duos in Crypt, which killed undergeared/progression Trios in Crypt, which killed HR
in previous playtests, there was a roughly even spread of team sizes in Crypts, now the majority of games played are in Goblin Caves

this is not speculation, this is literally happening right now
pop into a high roller queue right now in a non US/EU region, the lobby wont go past 12

[scenic abyss]

A good suggestion man. Would be nice to list stuff and be able to have it sell when I’m not in the trade chats

[short heath]

I don't often agree with just saying "git gud", but this is legitimately the case here. Pve should not be a problem for anyone who has played more than like, 2 weeks tops.

[sage echo]

nerf wizzard

[copper cosmos]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/483982/dramatically-reduce-draw-speed-on-the-longbow-and-recurve-bow-and-or-slow-down-b the only way to balance bows

[abstract swallow]

you don't want autotrade in an extraction game, it pushes up meta loadouts very fast and kills any sort of economic progression

[rare quiver]

ah yes. the first person i've seen with their head screwed on who actually understands

[scenic abyss]

Definitely an interesting observation. I don’t think duos is the right fix. It seems like there’s a big cultural misunderstanding on the type of game dark and darker is. Maybe once the player base becomes more familiar with choosing battles, it’ll change. Interested to see how the lifespan of the game develops

[tardy crystal]

why do you WANT solo players in crypts.. ? why do you WANT duo's in crypts.. take your 3 man go roll on some other 3 mans. whats the problem here. the game is plenty healthy to test these things. once again you are whining about something that hasnt even been tested on a game thats in early access.. if the test doesnt go well they will remove it simple as that. go into ruins as a solo player and fight a 3 man head on without cheesing and tell me how it goes. this isnt a game where "get good" always works.

[short heath]

You can't choose a battle when the opposition is a fully stacked meta buff comp. Once you hear them buffing one room over, you're already dead in the vast majority of situations unless you're equally/better geared.

[vale stratus]

You are not so smart my man. Go play wizard first. Then have a wah

[abstract swallow]

you seem to be mistaken, I play exclusively solo crypts on my Ranger, including HR
the central extraction mechanic of the game, portals, was designed for the explicit purpose of self-balancing against team size because larger teams have to choose between delaying extraction, thinning their team with early extraction, or controlling space to maintain multiple portals (see: poofter's tutorial)

[granite plinth]

you cant even tell why fighters are op you fucking lobotomite

[hidden lotus]

fairpoint, maybe have a cap on item rariety or duration period of the amount of auctions you can enroll

[scenic abyss]

You’ve got heaps of options man. Outrun them, trios manoeuvre slower. Shut doors on them. Put mobs between them and you. Invis. Parkour. Hide in darkness

[rare quiver]

they are in full plate and can run faster than a cloth/leather wearer. 85% damage reduction. and for some reason they can use ranged to one shot you from 3 rooms away

[queen sable]

I think fighters are OP because they can wear heavy armor and are still fast af and can use ranged weapons. I agree they should be able to used ranged and that shouldn't be taken away, but a geared out fighter does and can take a LOT of damage

all while outrunning you

[rare quiver]

^

[abstract swallow]

a time limited market board system (put in slot, that slot is used for X hours even if it sells) and implementing an extract-with-item for retrade limit on traded goods could work
retrading is the big issue right now, once you have a basic investment you can flip purples basically forever for infinite cash

also curse is right, progression is dead with the hyperboosted loot tables, but that's obviously for testing purposes since this is EA and they've basically said as much

[short heath]

You can't outrun a buffball comp. Shutting a door delays the inevitable against comps with movespeed buffs and who are smart enough to take off armor/weapons. Mobs are dead in 99% of rooms in a lobby vs good players. Invis pots don't allow you to move and have set durations, which if they're already running at you they'll just wait out. Hiding in darkness won't save you vs any respectable player. Torches exist.

[copper cosmos]

fighter are the slowest character in the game

[queen sable]

maybe naked base but you start putting armor on the classes they become one of the faster classes

[scenic abyss]

You don’t have to defeat them, just convince them you’re not worth the hassle. They need their extraction portals. Run them somewhere inconvenient and they’ll bail

[abstract swallow]

A competent BuffBall team can and will roll an entire lobby, and right now the game REALLY encourages that with how boosted Low Roller loot is and the fact that they haven't introduced any weight/durability mechanics yet.
Until high end gear taxes you more for taking it, it will always be best to do the safest content, not the most lucrative.

[queen sable]

that being said about fighter being OP classes are rock paper scissors, bringing magic damage to a fighter can mess them up bad. But not many people play wizard to do so

[rare quiver]

because wizards get one shot by grey longbows and grey crossbows from a fighter. not even in the head

[subtle summit]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/479719/barbarian-perksskills-need-rework
Just one updoot a day can feed a local barbarian, support our cause

[tardy crystal]

for all the people trying to explain "what kind of game dark and darker is " and suggesting that the people who MADE the game are wrong.. evaluate your life, please. early access game and yall are acting like duos is the end of the world. slap yourself and wake up. id rather go against a fair fight than to just roll on solo's even when im a trio sadly other people dont think like that. i have spectated a geared 3 man buffball comp wipe an entire lobby and didnt even all get to extract b.c they dont care about extracting. they get off on pub stomping everyone.

[queen sable]

exactly, the best comp is fighter, bard, cleric. Wizard is not part of any best composition. I've been playing barbarian since wipe and my magic res means i can just walk up to them. To get mroe people playing them i think they should reduce NPCs magic res to make them more useful to the party

[stuck perch]

Don't forget dispel their buff stack and plow through them.

[stuck perch]

Then maybe the fix is heavier movement penalities on the heavy armor?

[copper cosmos]

your asking for a pointless rework which isnt realistic, its fine how it is

[subtle summit]

"early access" but people expecting a full fledged 100% working game with no problems.. This is testing. All the reason why they brought spells back to 100% and +3 all back. They want data. And a lot of it

[queen sable]

That being said I am trying to get all magic res gear/health to see if me and my buddy can do a group comp where I as the barbarian am just a beacon for his chain lightning to hit people who aren't high magic res

[tardy crystal]

they should bring reactions back to this channel id give this a major thumbs up.

[subtle summit]

Your opinion is noted. There's a lot of problems with barbarian imo. Have you tried blood exchange? How about life siphon? ... There's a reason why barbs are a dying breed despite it being my favorite class

[queen sable]

that could be it, or do some small changes to the sprint ability. Maybe give it a debuff at the end with lower action speed for like 3-5 seconds or something

[stuck perch]

You have to learn where and how to use invisibility pots. Don't use them where they'll obviously think to look. Use it when there's a seemingly obvious path that you could have taken.

[queen sable]

my fav is still melee warlock, but I've been playing barb and loving it after wipe

[subtle summit]

I've always wondered about melee warlock. Might have to give it a try.

[stuck perch]

Meh, I'd leave that alone and rather use other skills to slow down, inhibit or discourage chases.

[queen sable]

Well, it's either give skills to a bunch of other classes or nerf the skill of the class that lets them outrun people while in plate armor. Especially when they pop out a bow/crossbow/throwing weapon to slow you down even more during the chase

[stuck perch]

No, level 1s need to get used to playing against higher level and better geared players. Part of that is choosing your battles. Any form of match making is going to be horrible for this game. This isn't built for fair fights.

[queen sable]

But for a different suggestion: Please put in a cobalt northern full armor

[short heath]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/472659/matchmaking-balance-calculation-suggestion

[stuck perch]

They only have 1 shot with that crossbow if they're hoping to catch up to you. And if they fail to catch you during their sprint, they're not going to catch you any other way. Nerfing the ability that sticks out is one solution, but it's a bad one when you can let people keep their good abilities and give counter play options to other classes, of which there are already many.

[copper cosmos]

life siphon could seem underpowerd and blood exchange definetley works with fast attacking weapons since your health pool is so high but in all honesty i feel like the skills stay true to how a barbarian should play like no need to change

[hidden lotus]

Stats page for total games, amount of escapes, number of kills, number of red portals, bossess killed, etc...

[stuck perch]

The problem with people getting stomped repeatedly is a symptom of a deeper problem. You need to treat the underlying cause which in this case is both not enough room to keep bored high geared players entertained and also too many players for the size of the map we have in crypts.

[queen sable]

The real solution IMO is to just lower the ante cost of HR. On the half price weekends it felt like geared out people were farming normal a lot less

[short heath]

Actual small D energy here. "Game isn't meant to be fair, I'm supposed to be able to run through gray/new player lobbies in my full purple set with my coordinated trio of veterans so I can get off while killing people with no effort"

[cunning lance]

guys, now hear me out. what if we buffed ranger

[formal wadi]

[short heath]

Agreed. That's legitimately the lowest of the low. They should be at a minimum queueing for HR lobbies, but they don't have the nuts to do it.

[spiral whale]

I cant play the fucking game bcs the falchion is so insanely OP

[cunning lance]

the game clearly centers around melee combat, and rangers are shit at it. so clearly, ranger needs a buff

[queen sable]

use a spear

[subtle summit]

Blood exchange works, but at what cost and for what reason? Simply to heal in out of combat PVE. There's no reason as to why it should be that bad. I've tested it multiple times. The time frame is so short that at most, you're going to get 4-6 hits, which is 25-30% hp of 75% of your base health. So it doesn't stack with any strength bonuses, doesn't stack with any attributes or item stats. When you consider that compared to basically every other class that has skills that scale, why is that a viable skill and why is it set with those restrictions? Not to mention, it is a skill that only refreshes with campfires. I don't think it's usable in its current state. The options for skills shouldnt be rage + reckless & achilles. I think all skills should see some usage. I agree, there are plenty of perks and skills that aren't usable in their current state but barb is not great in HR, not great in boss fights and is only really good in certain comps. Don't get me wrong, I think rage should stay along with ~6 of the perks. But the others? Hardly usable and if they were changed for the better, it would make a world of difference for the class

[short heath]

Actually pathetic thinking that just because you're "bored" of HR lobbies and farming for gear, so you resort to killing the easiest players to kill the game has to offer instead of having the nuts and any shred of decency to fight against people on at least somewhat equal footing in HR lobbies.

[subtle summit]

anyway, https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/479719/barbarian-perksskills-need-rework
support a local barb, upvote if you agree

[stuck perch]

I'm not running through lobbies of any kind. If you assume that just because I prefer the game without match making that I have any amount of gear, you're just wrong. All my stuff are whites bought from merchants and maybe a green or two I occasionally find for a bit. You have to understand other people's position if you're going to argue against it with sustenance rather than just sophistry.

[abstract swallow]

High Roller having rewards better than LR and which aren't gated behind bossing would be a good start
As would adding durability and F1 back to curb just stomping into LR with your best kit being the best moneymaker

[short heath]

Brother, let's be honest for literally one time in our lives here. Once. Acknowledge that there are people doing exactly what I just said and that adding GBMM will stop it. Use your brain. Please. Just because it isn't YOU doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

[rugged cedar]

whats the best bow for rangers

[normal oasis]

I really hate that item rarity doesn't determine a minimum # of attributes
green items with NO attributes makes no sense

why even have colors on the items if it's not supposed to help you mentally segment the item values more easily?

[queen sable]

I personally don't want matchmaking. While geared teams roll me every once in awhile, killing them is a huge windfall

[abstract swallow]

The only thing GBMM would do is let a bunch of specialized stomp squads with spreadsheet gear absolutely roll captive noob lobbies

[stuck perch]

Then why the sophistry?

[zealous silo]

no guys pve has one shot sometimes that is unavoidable, except being behind a wall

[abstract swallow]

"they do that already"
so the solution does nothing AND makes the game worse for people that don't want to be carebear'd

[stuck perch]

There are any number of things that would stop that, GBMM or any form of MM at that, but most of those things will also have negative impacts on the game, the lobbies and time it takes to get into a match. There is an underlining cause to this and fixing that will solve the issue without the need for MM of any kind.

[short heath]

You're leaving out the acknowledgement of the fact that it would be more possible for a new player/team to actually compete.

They are purposely ignoring the concept at this point. It's insane.

[stuck perch]

Let's just say no to match making in general and provide other incentives to discourage new player stomping by geared players.

[abstract swallow]

Lowering stat advantages while pooling vulnerable players together and cutting them off from efficient upgrades, not only killing budget options but also punishing Frontline characters like barbarian and fighter who scale their defenses exclusively off base rarity which frustrates those classes AND skews class pools for matchmaking based on the rarity of gear they favor

Feel free to respond with whatever bandaid solution or whataboutism that springs to mind, but you're building the most convoluted solutions in the world for something as simple as "make nicer things expensive to run"

[stuck perch]

Sophistry isn't going to get you anywhere. You're just refusing to see any side's argument that doesn't match yours.

[subtle summit]

@median tendon right so https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/479719/barbarian-perksskills-need-rework upvote if you agree
jokes aside yeah i agree lol

[queen sable]

The biggest incentive IMO would be to not make GC so profitable. I'm getting blue rings/necks constantly from centipedes that are easy as heck to kill

[subtle summit]

❤️

[short heath]

How do you think people get their initial sets of gear following a wipe if it isn't on an even playing field in no-ante runs? Lul

[abstract swallow]

GC just needs to go in general
either it's better than crypt/ruins for loot, and thus everyone continues playing 3x more goblin caves than anything else and sitting on a stash full of easily accessible gold and midtier gear without ever interacting with the primary gamemode
or it's worse, and there's no point for it to exist except to stomp progression characters and camp bosses (we all know it no longer fulfills its original design goal of being an area for 1v1 combats, since HR GC stole that from it and is its own mess)

[stuck perch]

This sounds like a sensible approach. Well geared players need steady income to pay for gear, making lower challenge options easier for them to farm is a big part of the problem. And it has larger effects than just new players getting stomped. It also affects the economy and trade.

[abstract swallow]

I know you really care about shilling GBMM, so what are you actually trying to ask me here

[short heath]

Your claim is that GBMM results in cutting new players off from efficient upgrades when everyone starts with the same access to upgrades every wipe anyway, and that's literally the purpose of GBMM - to ensure the even playing field for new players so they're not constantly being griefed by people who have no lives.

[dusky bough]

I understand the apeal of wipes in games and generally speaking I find them to be very fun. However I think resetting all the levels to 1 again is a bit overkill, it is just a tedious mind numbing grind to get back to a point where the game becomes more enjoyable. I think that grind should only be required once, it might be an unpopular opinion but personally I have 0 motivation to re level 9 characters every time. Take my loot but please don't take my levels, it serves no purpose, everyone will be level 20 before you know it anyways and it is just a inconvenience.

[subtle summit]

🧢

[stuck perch]

This game will never offer an even playing field for players, new or old. It just can't based on it's base concept.

[short heath]

You are so ignorant, man. Make it as even as possible by reducing the effect gear has.

[subtle summit]

I think something for gear is coming but it's not going to be until later. +3 all was introduced again to get a sh!tload of data. Give everyone great gear options and see what happens kind of thinking. Folks, just post your suggestions and see what happens lol arguing with some guy on here isn't going to get your shit upvoted more
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/479719/barbarian-perksskills-need-rework but if you do read it and agree, please upvote

[short heath]

Typing for literal hours to say the same thing, I bet. You can lie all you want to cover tracks but we all know you're the problem that we are calling out here. @abstract swallow @stuck perch

Which is hilarious for them both to be admitting to doing.

[abstract swallow]

"efficient upgrades" in this context refers to making purchases of cheap, high-rarity gear pieces that provide meaningful bonuses, like class-unique armor pieces, jewelry, and off-meta weapons. GBMM/gearcaps punish this behavior severely, in addition to the aforementioned class skewing/systemic disadvantage.

I don't understand your obsession with an even playing field and fairness, that's not and never has been a goal of the game. Interacting with players that are much more dangerous than you (or much less) is an intended experience by the very nature of the game's primary game mode: delving into increasing dungeon depths from the same starting point. A system where even the most mundane encounter with the weakest player could result in losing vital supplies for your adventure deeper within.
This is part of the reason I am so adamant that the game needs to move back to focusing on the singular, multi-floor experience and its emphasis on downtime, resting, and supply managment; the game simply lacks the framework to support one-map battle royales, which is the exact thing you're trying to warp the game around.

[pallid flax]

Quickshot needs to just be removed from the game or it shouldn't work with longbow period.

[short heath]

No concept of longevity, got it. Game will be dead and your attitude towards new player experience will be why. TCF in a nutshell.

[abstract swallow]

if I wanted to do that I would advocate for a GBMM system, I made that pretty clear

[stuck perch]

Even that won't be an "even field" because the rarity of gear isn't a direct relation to how good it actually is. A green item with good stats for example is often better than a blue or even purple item with shitty stats. And even if you had equal gear, it's still not an even field because one team has more consumables, or utility items. Or one side enters a fight has already taken significant damage or they manage to hide and ambush the otherside.
If you wanted the "even playing field" Both teams would have to approach each other on a mirrored map, starting at full health with the same number of consumables and utility items. Both teams would have to start with the same gear which means no bringing gear in and both teams would have to have the same number of players and even the same number of each class roles. This sounds like concept for a MOBA, not a looter extractor game.

And before you call me a problem, you should stop using fallacious arguments. If you use fallacies you're either intentionally using bad or misleading arguments (sophistry) or you don't understand what they are and why you shouldn't use them. We could have a civil discussion about the state of the game without resorting to such things and we might actually walk away understanding a bit more about the opposing view points. But instead it's like talking to a wall where the only thing we'll walk away with is frustration is a mutual dislike of each other.

[abstract swallow]

don't take him so seriously, he's just arguing for the sake of it at this point

[limpid niche]

plz put cooldowns on skill tooltips

[stuck perch]

True, but by my nature I don't want to just assume bad intent from people like him. Besides right now all I can do is remember what the game was like when I started and fell in love with it.

[abstract swallow]

you can give him the benefit of the doubt, but he's clearly very attached to the idea and takes arguments against it personally
it happens to lots of people about lots of things

[full cliff]

The game doesn't need to be perfectly even at all, but it's pretty obvious that the way gear and weapons (and the stats themselves) scale currently is a little insane. Good gear is also too easy to get, greens with +3 all attributes existing is nuts.

[abstract swallow]

I swear +3 All is just cheese in a bot tracking mousetrap
but yeah, rarity should be diminishing returns, not linear
having 30% of a weapons' damage potential in the last 2 tiers is very silly

[full cliff]

Also again, armor scaling in this game is bad and always has been. People complained about this a lot in the earlier playtests ("Armor seems to do way less than weapon damage") until everyone realized how the curve works and the PDR fighter meta begun. One reason it feels like the game has zero ttk and a oneshot meta is that unless you are a fighter (or maybe a cleric/barb) your AR just isn't doing anything. It's like you're either naked, clothed or you are utterly jacked in that >120ish AR range

[abstract swallow]

okay, before you reinvent the wheel let me just find you kurt's post from like a year ago on this
https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/114s3aj/the_oneshot_meta_how_we_got_here_and_how_ironmace/
here you go

[full cliff]

Yeah these problems aren't a secret by any means

It's not just the new player experience that suffers, most of the people I play with who have been playing since PT3 including myself are starting to get really frustrated with the game in its current state. The meta that has developed has gotten progressively work since EA started and I don't think many of the balance changes were good, if anything they made things worse. Rogue in particular feels horrible right now but I am a rogue player, I just feel like in order to have success with the class I either need to never fight anyone or commit to doing the cheesy oneshot ambush build which is no fun compared to the duelist style rogue that was possible not long ago. No idea why they nerfed Rogue's capability to do that while keeping everyone's most hated oneshot out of invis around.

[molten vessel]

just started playing ranger and i have a bunch of gray agility boosting gear on putting me at 25 agility and 299 movespeed, but i was wondering if the dmg from str also applies to bows as well since there ranged idk? is it better to put str gear on?

[calm prairie]

yes u want strength for the damage but this prolly the wrong channel lol

[molten vessel]

oh sorry didnt realize i was still in suggestion

[abstract swallow]

Rogue is probably the biggest victim of GC killing mixed party sizes in Crypts, losing the ability to play into smaller teams/other solos and outmanuever bigger teams for the sausagefest of defaults and geared 3stacks picking up their free paycheck really killed the vibe

[full cliff]

It was doable not that long ago is the thing, even with the GC's around. The nerfs to rogue hit his overall efficacy super hard though and did literally nothing to address the actual issue with the class which is that it can pop out of invis and oneshot people, which just is not fun or healthy for the game at all.

I don't think the class can be balanced so long as Ambush exists the way it does.

[abstract swallow]

yeah, the game's queue health was propped up very hard by the playtests being F2P and the surge of players at the start of early access
but as of this wipe, the problems are getting pretty evident

[full cliff]

That too, playercount being much lower than playtests is a big factor. Constant churn of new players into the dungeons was very healthy for the game

You would still get steamrolled by Chad Tatteredcloak but there weren't 8 of him in every lobby.

[stuck perch]

Oh I was constantly stomped back then too, but it wasn't so frequent that it became old. Learning to avoiding other players unless I had an advantage was something I grew to like. With perks like Enhanced Senses and Creep. Pvp was frequent enough but not too frequent, it built anticipation that was wonderfully appreciated when pvp eventually happened as opposed to something to dread.

[full cliff]

I'm probably one of the last solo rogue crypt enjoyers left these days

[abstract swallow]

Chad ThunderBarb and his two medic girlfriends also made up a much less significant proportion of the population before GC's impact started to play out too
those solos and duos in crypts were slots in a lobby that just couldn't be a full stomp squad

now it's getting more likely that you won't just see a stomp squad, but encounter the same stomp squad
honestly the bloating of the playercount for all gamemodes plays into this as well, and it's clearly a bandaid solution to the growing majority of trios in crypts making the dungeon that much more lifeless despite there now being internal spawns, since so many less spawns are being utilized (you can go back to PT4 and see constant complaints about dungeons being completely dead/zero contact)

[abstract swallow]

I still see the occasional fellow solo ranger in crypts, but they're almost always just levelling
it's very sad

[sullen sphinx]

There needs to be a gearscore system so juiced players arent able to que for non high-roller

[abstract swallow]

all a gearscore system would do is just let juicers optimize their score to stomp baby lobbies with even less risk

[sullen sphinx]

maybe make it strict then? new players get stomped every second round

[abstract swallow]

okay, so you make it strict how?

I can tell you for a fact that it would be as simple as an autocalculating spreadsheet or an overlay telling you what your gearscore is and what ranges that can place you in
this is not the first mmo I've played

[full cliff]

gearscore is bad, the issue is just game balance

[sullen sphinx]

green items are woth 1pt, blue 2pt, purp 3pt, orange 5pt, named items 10pt. lower roller lobbys only allowed 5pts of gear

[abstract swallow]

Okay. I run a purple longbow and str+damage jewelry and start bodyshotting an entire lobby of people that can't have green armor in every slot.
When you make rules, people will find out how those rules work and exploit them. This isn't just an extraction genre thing, people will optimize anything.

[sullen sphinx]

3pts for lowers then

[abstract swallow]

basically
fix rarity by making it diminishing returns, make the AR curve 60/70/80/90 breakpoints, and slap on a durability system with max durability damage on repairs with rarity-scaled repair costs

[patent mauve]

barbarians with potion chugger should be able to take one step in stealth

[abstract swallow]

fund it

[sullen sphinx]

I think that gear dependancy for most classes calls for gear restrictions for low roller lobbys, thats all im saying. tired of seeing full caped teams taking out timmys

[stuck perch]

That's the difference. Right now it's too common, back then it wasn't due to less players on the map and of the players that were on the map, not all were in trios.

[sullen sphinx]

also barbarian should have a sheild perk and be able to use the round sheild

[queen sable]

I think one problem is people just don't understand they shouldn't engage the team all wearing capes when they see them in the next room. I went into GC semi-geared so i could do some mining (for the regular interaction speed). Literally warning people on VOIP that I was geared and just mining and wasn't going to kill them if they left me alone. There's only been like two people who have taken that offer.

I've only gone in as a duo or solo in ruins/crypts and have been able to avoid those teams very consistently by checking exits and stuff

obviously as circle closes it can become inevitable but maybe i'm just lucky with the guys in my games generally trying to go into the down dungeon instead of fighting

[sullen sphinx]

ill stay away from chads in goblin caves if in gearing for sure. but in crypts, the caped commando teams wreak havoc for beginner teams

[queen sable]

I've been playing since the alpha tests

you playing cleric?

[hallow saffron]

ima be real. if youre constantly running into fully stacked teams. swap servers. cause theres no way they are getting perma rolled without getting any basics down if they are as good at games as you are vouching for them.

[queen sable]

that's my thoughts too. and if he would play cleric he could be supporting them the entire time to learn the basics. Although In my time playing since EA I've only had like 6-7 games where there was a fight immediately and that was either a rogue or us going out for specifically that purpose

[stuck perch]

Lower the player cap for crypts and ruins back to 16 for starters. Put ruins back into the crypt/inferno stack and put a hard limit on the rarity of gear found in each map.

• Ruins should be grey/white with the lucky green.
• Crypt should be white/green with the lucky blue.
• Inferno should be white/green/blue with the lucky purple
  Then add another stack of maps (we'll call c1/2/3)
• c1 should have the difficulty of inferno with loot somewhere between crypt and inferno,
• c2 should have the difficulty one step above inferno with loot one step above c1
• c3 should have the difficulty two steps above inferno and loot one step above c2
  You could set a gold sink to travel to the new stact to discourage players from going back and forth to the first stack unless they no longer have the gear to play in the second stack.
  HR version of the map have better loot but the same loot cap.

Remove ruby silver ore from maps prior to inferno, and cobalt from the first maps in a stack. Study how the balance goes, goblin caves could keep cobalt ore if it's given a map prior to it in the stack, but definitely shouldn't have ruby silver ore.
Further study of the effect of these changes would be needed before I'd move/remove gobo caves or change them drastically.

[slow sundial]

Please add the settings function to have hotkey binds for every single utility slot instead of scrolling through them with the 3 and 4 keys. For example for a bard its pretty challenging swiping through them fast enough, also when you pick up for example potions or throwing knives they will mess up the order of your instruments 🎵

[queen sable]

that's a good one

[stuck perch]

That's a good idea, you should write it up as an official suggestion and give us a link so we can vote it up.
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/

[queen sable]

if this was like playtest 2 I think more people would belive you where crypts would constantly spawn you next to another team, it just seems like you are the only one living this experience or you are highly exaggerating. How many rooms do you clear before getting wiped by a stacked team?

[hallow saffron]

I have very rarely run into combat within the first minute unless my teams looking for it or the rare team sprinting for spawns and we tend to beat them.

since wipe with my team, we have rarely run into super geared teams, I wanna say three times maybe four. Honestly though it sounds like curse is just over exagerating the issue his group is facing and only focusing on the bad games or thinks that anyone who has purple (even if its terrible enchantments) is geared, other option is that he thinks anyone who kills him is geared and doesnt check.

[final basalt]

Gear doesn’t make you any better at the game. These people who bring in purples will lose it eventually. I don’t see the problem

[small furnace]

I'll be honest, I think the trade window should be made bigger so people stop trying to scam keys.

If the point of the trade being small is to prevent people from trading large amounts then it's not working, people are still trading for these there's just also people scamming. I don't like the idea of people scamming because the trade window is so limited.

[queen sable]

That could also be true. I bought purple gloves today for mining for 75g. That's less than I make in a single GC run going in without gear because the enchantment was terrible but had +% to regular interaction speed which i was looking for

[stuck perch]

Right now? Usually we make it to our second room, before I typically met non-spawn rushers in our 3rd room and most of the people I meet now are well geared compared to before being some random gear they found in the dungeon. Geared players are less likely to die to pve than ungeared players so we meet more of them.

[queen sable]

that's because we are on the topic and there is really only like 10 of us talking in here right now

[final basalt]

Alright so I’m a purple geared warlock what’s stopping a gray recurve bow from killing me?

[queen sable]

so about 50g worth of vendor potions and one person "taking the hit" to play the super powerful cleric?

[small furnace]

I don't get the whining about gear. I ran into super geared teams and died before wipe and now I'm doing so less often after wipe, but still happening. I've also had the chance to BE on those super geared teams though. Sometimes you get to be the tough guy, sometimes you get to fight the tough guy... that's just how it is.

Not every single lobby is full of geared people, ya'll are exaggerating.

[queen sable]

lol bullshit. I've killed purple geared warlocks in GC with grey gear barb cause my magic res is really high

the longsword ones are more difficult because parrying a barb is easy, but those also dont cast

[small furnace]

I don't think it's 8/10, or maybe I'm the luckiest man alive. I rarely see geared people and when I do there's usually ample opportunity to escape and decide whether or not we want to take a chance fighting them.

[stuck perch]

Here's my suggestion written up officially if you want to vote it up or comment on it.
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/484028/fixing-over-geared-people-in-lower-lobbies-motivating-better-geared-people-to-mo#comment541045

[small furnace]

I back-to-back escape from goblin caves like 5 times in a row without seeing a single geared person as a near-naked fighter with only a white falchion.

As for in crypts/ruins? It's a bit more common, but not as much.

[sullen sphinx]

maybe im just very unlucy, id like to believe so, but the last 3 games in low roller i got sandwiched by 2 geard teamed fools

[stuck perch]

That depends on the server and time of day. You can switch to different servers and see how it is.

[queen sable]

honestly thats just so overly complicated to me. If a player is < level 10 let them have their own lobbies if they choose otherwise they join the rest of the pool

[small furnace]

I really don't wanna see gear based matchmaking in the game. I enjoy the moments where I can screw over an overgeared player that might be on the little less skilled side.

Suggestions should probably have both upvote and downvotes, just because a suggestion is popular with a lot of people doesn't mean it won't be unpopular with a lot of people.

I don't want to. I want to go in naked and kill an overgeared underskilled person, that's fun as hell to me.

I think most people who play the game have the same mindset as me, you guys are a minority.

[queen sable]

I have the same mindset as you. The gear fear is incredibly real though with people. And they can't handle dying or not escaping. Get a few games in with only getting stuff for the collector and you already can afford some blues

[stuck perch]

Then the game is either fairly easy and suddenly becomes really hard when you reach level 10 instead of players learning the curve as they learn the game, or players will make smurf characters they can gear up with stuff and gold from another character and stomp those lobbies in the same way. The smurf characters will then make tons of cash farming the lower lobby and then export all that gold and rare items to their other characters. This will be about as effective as writing a heart-felt note asking someone not to rob your bank and posting it on the vault.

[small furnace]

Doesn't make me automatically correct, no, but if a majority of the playerbase enjoy the game a certain way and want it to stay that way I think we should be able to have our say.

Both of your mindsets entirely disregards players that are brand new to the game, and trying to learn it. I started playing this game well after people were geared, and I did fine learning. I am brand new to this game mate I have been playing for a few weeks.

[stuck perch]

I can understand your point about wanting to kill overgeared and undergeared people, and that possibility is the main reason why I don't want match making of any kind. However I'm likely to be that under skilled and over geared person rather than the other way around.

[small furnace]

I'm not lucky dawg, I refuse to believe that I have just been consistently lucky with over a hundred hours played.

[queen sable]

I die, all the time. I also get kills and escapes. The difference is that I realize this is an looter/escape game and will die. a lot. I didn't "get good" because i was match maked with others at my skill level. I got better because i had to figure out how to fight people, and will go in with starter gear with the intention of fighting so i can learn how to play with a class. When I tryed playing bard I was god awful. more harm then help to the team. Does that mean I will never play it again because i died?

[small furnace]

+1 on this, I die all the time and I lose purples and blues to stupid stuff when I'm geared sometimes. It just happens, move on, and keep playing for the next round. You'll get it back eventually, always do.

[stuck perch]

That said, I don't want a downvote option on features because it will affect how some people view the feature as opposed to giving it fair though. If you truly disagree with the feature, please elaborate why in the comments rather than just downvoting it. Some times it's not the whole thing but rather additional considerations that the devs should take into account if they decide to make a version of that feature a reality.

[hallow saffron]

no. there is only a very vocal minority who constantly run into fully geared players. you learn to play around it. when I started in first playtest I sucked. I enjoyed that I sucked, cause I knew it was a looter escape dnd game. I knew if I stuck with it id get better.
get out of your baby mindset, your friends are full platinumed souls like gamers? Why are they baby raging over a much simpler game then? you can beat any geared team by outplaying them and learning the swing patterns.

[small furnace]

AYYY that's what I'm saying man. I feel like I'm going crazy here all these people say every game has a full geared person but I just don't see it, and when I do it isn't the tragedy they make it out to be. You CAN run away from people unless they're a fully meta bardsquad with agi-focused gear and that just doesn't happen nearly as often as people want me to believe.

[abstract swallow]

people underestimate just how cheeky you can get when hiding from other players
I guarantee you anyone who complains never learned to ||stand on top of doorways (as a non-rogue)||

[queen sable]

on top of that me and my buddy are petty, if we know we are going to die we target one person to make sure they die even if we do too

[stuck perch]

Hey, don't start using ad hominems in here, I agree with you but I don't want this devolving into calling each other names and deriding each other. It's not productive.

[abstract swallow]

spite can be a win condition
set your own goals, king

[queen sable]

i also see a lot of people who try to hide in darkness with potions on their belt. Since VOIP is back I try to teach them that I can still see them.

[small furnace]

I mean the game is about having fun. There was one time where I saw a fully geared guy trying to open a portal as the circle closed in. There's no way my naked butt was gonna kill him, but I sure as hell harassed him enough to make sure he lost all that gear to the circle and it felt worth to me.

[hallow saffron]

no no. he said his buds were all full platinum souls like gamers. them rage quitting over this very simplified mordhau esque combat game, is, baby raging lets be real.

[queen sable]

says the person whose whole argument is "my personal experience I die instantly to full stacked teams"

[stuck perch]

But then the rest of us also lose out on a possible good point. Sometimes your goal isn't to convince that guy but to convince the rest of us of the validity of your point.

[queen sable]

Yes and you are seeing the opposite sentiment here

[icy panther]

Gear based matchmaking sounds awful

[hallow saffron]

no curse. you are the one who is latching onto the vocal minorities views and overexaggerating your experience. your very blatant refusal to acknowledge that is confirmation. it also is not a ad hominem as it is more a comment on the fact that they are getting mad over a specific aspect of the game and instead of looking for a solution (that IS there) has chosen to complain about it and quit the game.

[queen sable]

just because you see a lot of people complaining about something doesn't mean it is a majority

[stuck perch]

I don't think we should remove the possibility of dieing to fully stacked teams, but we should make it a less common occurrence. It can be humbling if it happens once in awhile as opposed to every other match.

[queen sable]

and lets be real. there are a lot of issues with this game. With hitboxes and balance issues. It is also a lot slower than other games. Maybe, just MAYBE, your friends don't like the game

[hallow saffron]

ghost what do you consider a fully geared team? one that buys a 75 gold kit from shop or one who is in greens/blues? what is FULLY GEARED to you and curse

[icy panther]

Make high roller more enticing

[small furnace]

This is a hardcore game, sometimes you are gonna get messed up and lose what you got and there's nothing you can do about it... just take the 30 seconds between games to take a deep breath and remind yourself that you can get it all back before you get right back to the grind.

In a game like this you are destined to rise and fall, now, the frequency at which you rise and fall is completely up to you and your skill level, willingness to learn. You shouldn't be pointing the finger at others who have the great gear just because they rose higher and faster than you.

[stuck perch]

I've found that teams that have been curb stomping me are those with mostly blues and maybe some purple items.

[glacial moon]

Well said

[stuck perch]

Yes, but that can't be the only measure. My last suggestion included something like that if you want to take a look at it:
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/484028/fixing-over-geared-people-in-lower-lobbies-motivating-better-geared-people-to-mo#comment541045

[queen sable]

how did you wipe teams? I thought you couldn't play in a match long enough for them to learn the basics? hmmmmmm

[stuck perch]

Though winning a match doesn't mean you have to kill other players to do so. Extracting with loot is a win even if you didn't smash another team.

[icy panther]

I think you overvalue other peoples' value of ore, its easier to just spam normal runs for lich/warlord/king and get free purps that way

[stuck perch]

Match making would only make sense for a battle royal style game of which this is not.

[queen sable]

to be fair with the dark swarm it kinda is a battle royal but i still disagree with MMR, works well in Hunt, dont think it would work well here

[abstract swallow]

it's a good change for longterm health, loot is obviously cranked up super hard right now for EA testing reasons, and ore/crafting is more valuable in settings where gear is hard to come by (and, hopefully, actively being filtered out of the game)

[small furnace]

The playerbase could triple mate and I still wouldn't want it. Nothing tops the euphoric feeling of coming out on top when the odds are stacked against me. Or a well-fought victory between my team and another in unfavorable circumstances.

To know that I'm risking nearly nothing and I just won the jackpot by outplaying someone is an AMAZING feeling. I once caught a 3 man off-guard and ended up hobbling my way to the zone with 3 capes and loads of purples in my inv.... I died to another random naked that found me and caught me before I could get there. It was fun as hell though, and that naked probably had an amazing time discovering the loot on my body.

These experiences CAN'T happen if you have this matchmaking restriction in place, these are the experiences I play the game for and even if it tripled the playerbase I would not want it, because it'd ruin the magic of the game for me.

and yes, you know what? It DOES feel good to wander around like a god geared in your purple gear and looking down on the peasants below you after you spent all your time earning that gear. That's an experience that I do think people should be allowed to have when they spent all that time getting their gear.

[queen sable]

killed the game? This game is only popular because of the way it is. It isn't like they recently made the game this way

[small furnace]

Because I don't think "The playerbase is huge" is what makes a game great, or else I'd just go play fortnite. If you think that sentence makes me undesirable then so be it, but I don't want this game to be like every other AAA trash game.

[icy panther]

This is an extraction game first and foremost, MMR would make the genre moot.

[patent owl]

I'm not sure how good of an idea this is but I wanna hear others about this. I think it would be interesting to have classes like cleric and warlock capable of casting spells without some sort of "medium" (like a book, orb, or staff). I know we already have the crystal sword but I feel like these classes are very melee-oriented and im not sure how thematic it is to have either depend on both a weapon and a casting item. Surely some balancing would be in order to properly implement something like this but I just wanna know what other people think abt the state of casting.

[stuck perch]

Maybe, but ore is guaranteed blue or purple gear (cobalt or rubysilver) for your slot of choice. That should only be available in maps that have a chance of dropping said quality of gear. When it comes to boss runs, you'd still have to be lucky to get a purple from the boss although infinite loot hoard would let you roll those dice quite a lot until you'd eventually get it. You should still consider yourself lucky if you manage to get one per run.

[small furnace]

No it isn't, not if it comes at the expense of the game's identity. I don't care if something appeals more. That's my point here.

[abstract swallow]

I'd say something, but dogpiling on someone when other people are disagreeing with someone seems unsporting and not conducive for discussion

@patent owl the devs have considered exactly that through an undisclosed 'artifacts' system, but they've gone silent on it since they scrapped the OG version of the class trainer

[icy panther]

Bosses in normal crypt are guaranteed purple

[patent owl]

aah I see, I hope they re-look into that kind of system

[icy panther]

Which one?

[stuck perch]

The dark swarm is a mechanic inspired from BRs, but that's the only thing this game has in common with BRs. Your goal isn't the same, the game loop isn't the same and the principal motivator isn't the same.

[abstract swallow]

I too hope they start implemented teased/promised mechanics instead of adding more mapbloat to the game
I sure do enjoy playing the Resourcefulness class when none of its unique substats have been implemented.

[queen sable]

which ones? The ones where you can wipe a team before they find you? I can go into hunt and kill a team of 3 with 3 shots from a 60 hunt dollar weapon

[swift anvil]

they need to make it banable or something to team in golbin caves.. so lame only time i die in there is in 2v1 scenarios

[stuck perch]

They shouldn't be.

[queen sable]

yeah I get that. I'm just saying this game is more BR like than any other extraction shooter out there because they force you into a certain direction

edit: to expand on this: I'm not claiming it is like a BR, just that whoever made the argument comparing it to a BR isn't completely wrong in that regard

[stuck perch]

Which I have mixed feelings on it. Unfortunately I don't know what could replace it an make it an improvement.

[scarlet creek]

I've thought about that too, like be able to cast spells but take twice the time to cast.

[queen sable]

which game?

[scarlet creek]

I gotta say guys, I've liked Fighter, Ranger, and Cleric. However, Bard is right now my favorite class. Combining buffs with being able to use a ranged item like a crossbow or survival bow. And, having somewhat balanced stats. I've been having a lot of fun.

[stuck perch]

I think having a casting focus is fine for casters. I don't see much benefit for giving them the option of doing so without it. However I would like casters to be able to cast a single choosen spell if they choose to not take spell memory 1 or 2. Just that they couldn't change it.

[stuck perch]

They're great but they keep nerfing them which disheartens me. I wish they let them keep their strong buffs even if they remove note skipping from the game. Also the range of their debuffs should get a buff. Right now it's not always worth taking. (I'm not talking about shriek).

[hallow saffron]

yeah im still waiting for him to tell us which extraction looter has good mmr matchmaking

[patent owl]

I think having an option aside from taking spell memory would be interesting. I feel like warlock and cleric don't quite fit the "caster" class especially warlock with their blow of corruption but I don't think the current system is necessarily bad

[scarlet creek]

Yeah, I think they're fine where they are right now. The buffs are good, but not overly powerful right now. I mean, I look at the +25 movement speed buff that lasts 100 seconds and that's half of a sprint from fighter.

[queen sable]

i was confused because I die ALL THE TIME in Hunt without knowing what happened until I see a kill cam. Some dude ina bush with a revolver 1 shot headshotting me. Hunt is much less forgiving than this game IMO. Also Hunt is still an incredibly fun game

[hallow saffron]

they can go play gob caves to learn to play. what do you mean. hunt has more 10k hour sweats then this game what.

they. can. go. play. gob. caves.

[scarlet creek]

I read this with 👏 every period and that automatically makes me not like someone.

[hallow saffron]

he didnt understand it the first time cool so i had to

[small furnace]

Yeah I'll be honest my experience in The Hunt: Showdown was so much worse. I was getting killed by people I didn't even see constantly. I don't know how you can say that game is so much better.

[scarlet creek]

I didn't play The hunt showdown much, but I remember playing it by myself and I killed one of the monsters and took the thing I needed to extract with. I killed a team of 2 who tried to kill me and I extracted. I never played the game again lol.

[hallow saffron]

my experience with hunt post MMR system has been
death to super high tier player.
death to someone hiding in a bush 500 miles away
death to someone clearly better then their level shows.

[scarlet creek]

I just have a lot more fun with Tarkov than the hunt

[stuck perch]

If you like my idea of letting casters cast a single spell without taking spell memory, upvote my feature:
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/472674/make-the-first-spell-on-the-priority-stack-always-available-even-if-you-dont-tak

[abstract swallow]

all I remember from Hunt's MMR is that it enforced some really toxic meta
there's babies having fun barely playing the game and then a breakpoint of "are you willing to abuse or spend the entire time playing around the FOTM?"

[stuck perch]

The bard was fine at release with the exception of note skipping. Which I didn't care for but I was willing to endure if they didn't nerf my buffs. Was the bard strong? yes but if every class was half as fun as he was to play the game would be in a good place.

[hallow saffron]

no curse im making a point. MMR system are not good.

[scarlet creek]

I think it's in a good place now with note skipping, but not every bard knows of note skipping

[abstract swallow]

EA bard was insanely broken
full scaling on their AoEs, OG Shriek, and their ramping drum buffs made them SS tier easily, they deserved every nerf they got and more (also holy shit just make charismatic performance autofinish the song once you achieve the perfect rating minimum)

[scarlet creek]

This is the first time I've tried bard and it's pretty fun. I feel like I don't do enough damage though

[abstract swallow]

you need to use shriek
take charismatic and note cancel shriek out, even for PvE

[scarlet creek]

Yeah, I need to use shriek at the start of every engagement

[small furnace]

Bard is definitely one of the strongest classes if not the strongest class solo, they just require a lot of skill in keeping all the buffs up and shriek.

[scarlet creek]

Agreed, a hard to master kinda class

Also hard to start, gotta ask people what to run and why.

[stuck perch]

MMR systems are good for games that set up an even field for everyone at the start of a match. The more you let things carry over from previous matches the less MMR systems will be appropriate for that game. And DaD is all about carrying loot over from your previous match.

[scarlet creek]

I took a build from someone, and two music sheets are the way to run because the other two skills are trash

[small furnace]

There's some pinned comments in the bard channel that show which notes you can skip on which music and still get perfect. You basically gotta abuse that for Bard to be as good as it is. It might get nerfed in the future though.

[scarlet creek]

I remember it like this: If the music ur playing has 6 or more notes, you can skip 2 notes if u get perfect on the other 4.

[hallow saffron]

high roller is that mitigation. the issue is theres zero reason to risk high roller cause theres just not enough escapes. not enough time to loot. too many people teaming.
What would the mmr be based on? extracts? well then just have one person ferry out gear other two dont extract.
Player kills? well then MMR is gonna be rough for those people rat for gold and extract every match so are fully geared in low mmr lobbies and can pvp but choose not to.
Loot gained? how would this decrease?

[stuck perch]

The only aoes that had scaling were Din of Darkness and Piercing Shrill, and of that, only Din needed a scaling nerf, and it should have been balance like every other dot in the game. There was no need to make it special.

[scarlet creek]

Piercing Shrill for the win, I have achieved a few kills on people closing doors behind them to get away

[small furnace]

How many extracts are in HR? I tried it for the first time today and I got portal rng'd out of existence. My assumption was there's way less.

[queen sable]

i think 3 + stairs

[small furnace]

Oh god, yeah I think I'll stay out for now. Definitely seems like a quick way to lose my gear.

[stuck perch]

The time without note skipping to cast Shrill is far below the dps you'd do with your rapier. Sure it's an aoe, and it hits through walls, but it's not instant cast and people can move away when they hear you cast it and the longer cast and skill check for bard songs warrants having those benefits. Take away note skipping and balance things on that. If the songs are too long to cast, get some more cast speed.

[hallow saffron]

according to wiki. 2nd circle spawns 1, 3rd circle spawns 4, 4th circle spaws 6. total of 11.
So my mistake there are seemingly enough its just the time.
Im speaking for crypt though not goblin

[queen sable]

no keep going in, HR is a great place to learn juggling NPCs and players

[small furnace]

I don't have fun getting portal rng'd though. 11 seems enough for crypt, but 4 is not enough for HR goblin cave.

[hallow saffron]

for HR gob caves its 4 portals and stairs in my experience.

[small furnace]

Losing because you aren't in the right spot for the portal and the other player is just feels very bad.

[queen sable]

then go in basic gear/shop bought whites. I would do that on my melee warlock. It's just like LR takes some practice getting used to the new map and everything being red

the only reason I am not going HR right now is because i want the drip of full cobalt armor so grinding that 200+ cobalt ore

[small furnace]

I have no problems dealing with the pve enemies, I just get rng'd. Getting used to the map is gonna be rough though

[abstract swallow]

the lack of visibility of portals is a big issue in HR GC, with how much slower it is to navigate and how much less of it is cleared by the final circles

[queen sable]

get to that center(?) room that matches the one is LR with the walkways and stuff and clear that room out asap, best place for getting to a portal/stairs. Also a good place for fights

two easist loot rooms are connected to it also IMO to the north and north east

[small furnace]

Oh that's the thing I usually avoid fights in HR because I don't go in with all my gear yet. I only take fights that I feel I can win, which is not many.

[hallow saffron]

"combatting"

[stuck perch]

HR isn't enough mitigation for something like this and you can't expect it to soak up all the higher geared characters. HR should be a higher difficulty of the base map with more loot quantity not quality.

[abstract swallow]

i'll give him this one
chat is a PvP enabled zone

[abstract swallow]

HR did serve this purpose before GC and overbuffing loot killed it, HR and red portals being opt-in risk-for-reward was one of THE most lauded parts of the playtests' design

[opaque garden]

might as well just remove every class except wizzard

[stuck perch]

Sure, but that was when it's all we had. Besides the game is suffering from too wide of a scope with gear that doesn't fit that shallow but wide depth. They need to add depth before they add width.

[abstract swallow]

consolidating the other gamemodes into a map cycle and adding F1 really needs to be their next play
duos getting added is gonna be a nightmare
every time they do something like this or flinch from committing to changes, it gets harder and harder for them to stand their ground and take it back later on

[stuck perch]

F1?

[abstract swallow]

floor 1, ruins in forgotten castle

[stuck perch]

Is that restacking ruins with crypts or something else?

[abstract swallow]

ruins is F1, crypts is B1, inferno is B2
there used to be a nice diagram in the tutorial for poofters

[stuck perch]

I'd rather use a notation that goes A1,2,3 for one map stack, B1,2,3 for another map stack.

[limpid niche]

ALLOW RANGERS TO STASH XTRA ARROWS PLZ AND ADD COOLDOWN TIMERS TO SKILL TOOLTIPS

[reef saddle]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/481983/killing-a-boss-should-provide-temporary-buffs-to-players-that-killed-it vote

remove leeches and make goblin caves great again

[stuck perch]

Tool tips should contain more than just cooldown timers, it should contain linked attributes for every aspect of the skill, perk or spell, including cooldown, damage, cast time, duration and everything that affects each of those things so we can understand what our abilities and perks do.

[granite plinth]

We need a ranking system so the fucking chads will be with the chads

[stuck perch]

Are you talking about the high roller leader boards or a Matchmaking system? Because it's a hard no for the match making system for various reasons discussed here. That said, there's plenty of ideas on how to motivate chads to move out from their mother's basement and move on to greener pastures with other chads. Match making is just what seems to be the easiest but it also comes with a heavy price and would be really hard to make it work to the point that it's better the devs don't even try and address those issues differently.

[gentle wind]

would be awesome if there was some sort of auction house instead of trying to chat spam through a million people wasting game time/ otherwise awesome game

[stuck perch]

You can filter that chat and it's better off this way.

[dapper plover]

you should be able to use bandages while you are resting

[drowsy grotto]

Blow of corruption needs a rework

[gentle wind]

well. i don't really care for trying to sit there and trying to barter with people. i'd rather just post it to a board for a price and leave it

[abstract swallow]

okay, hit us with it
what are you cooking brother

[drowsy grotto]

Idk make it so their healing gets lowered to 30% healing and if they attack and miss they take the damage that'd be dealt or something. (for the guy who gets hit, not the warlock who uses it)

[abstract swallow]

auto/offline trading for an extraction game is a quick ticket to an impenetrable economy that prints out instant cash and makes optimized gear insanely accessible

[drowsy grotto]

The entire issue surrounding blow of corruption is the insane strength against lower gear classes and the lack of usefulness against highly geared.

It's by definition a noob stomper since magic damage reduction is scarce when you are loading in with nothing (nothing being unheavily geared in this case)

[stuck perch]

Consider that the magic damage gets scaled with your magic power and +magic damage, and well geared players typically don't have as much magic resist as they do armor (or at least not both) on top of it countering battle heals pretty effectively. The only change I'd want to it (and all debuffs) would be to let the duration scale with some stat from the caster.

[drowsy grotto]

That's fair but the damage output against non-geared players is def nothing to be scoffed at

[abstract swallow]

BoC does need a rework, I agree
you can't nerf it anymore without bricking it like happened to rupture

[drowsy grotto]

Honestly just make rupture do achilies strike benefit but instead of moving causing damage, make it cause bleed

[stuck perch]

That will always be the case, although I do think that strength should provide more health than it currently does, "tanky" classes are generally tanky only because of armor with their health not being that high. This makes them insanely easy to burst down with something that bypasses their armor, including when they don't have the benefit of said armor.
Like my idea? vote it up!
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/483802/increase-the-health-provided-by-strength-this-will-help-balance-damage-in-turn

[pale rose]

stupid you gotta wait to get heals from vendor. If you run solo and don't have a cleric you are at a disadvantage. How Bards get 100 luck and can open any chest is beyond me. At least you were sensible and reverted the ranger traps. The bard cleric buff ball is a boring meta.

[queen sable]

beyond that, did they increase the time it takes for potions to refresh? I feel like they would normally refresh every 30 minutes now it's been like 1hr 30 minutes and still hasnt refreshed

[abstract swallow]

It refreshes every two games.

[gentle wind]

no way.. i went 6 or 7 games last night without being able to buy heals from alchemist

[pale rose]

its like every 10-15 min its feels like

meds being slower is cool but the whole recoverable health thing is pretty lame.

[queen sable]

I've definitely gone at least 8 games now

[charred summit]

restart your game my guy

[pale rose]

also they want dmg taken in dungeon to be more punishing but have a class that heals you fully pretty much instantly.

[glacial dragon]

Class: Shaman

Here are some characteristics and abilities that the Shaman class could have:

1. Elemental Affinity: The Shaman has a deep connection to the natural elements such as earth, fire, water, and air. They can call upon these elemental forces to unleash devastating attacks or provide support to their allies.

2. Nature Magic: The class has access to a wide range of spells and abilities that revolve around nature and the elements. They can heal wounds, summon animals or nature spirits to aid in combat.

3. Totem Summoning: The Shaman can summon totems, which are powerful objects imbued with elemental energy. These totems provide various benefits, such as healing, damage buffs, or crowd control effects, depending on the type of totem summoned.

4. Spirit Communication: The Shaman can communicate with the spirits of nature, ancestors, and other ethereal beings. These spirits can provide guidance, information, or even lend their power to the Shaman, granting temporary enhancements or unique abilities.

5. Shape-shifting: At higher levels, the Shaman gains the ability to transform into animal forms associated with their chosen element(s). For example, a Shaman with a strong affinity for water can transform into a dolphin or a water elemental, gaining increased mobility and water-based abilities.

6. Nature's Blessings: The Shaman has the ability to bestow blessings upon themselves and their allies, enhancing their attributes or providing temporary resistances to certain types of damage.

The Shaman class offers a harmonious blend of nature-based magic, elemental powers, and spiritual connections. They excel at healing, support, and damage-dealing depending on the situation. With their ability to commune with spirits and harness the forces of nature, they bring a unique and mystical aspect to the world of "Dark and Darker."

As always, the specifics of abilities and mechanics would need to be further developed and balanced within the game's overall design.

[abstract swallow]

Yeah, it'll pan out a lot better when spells aren't just one-and-done in crummy 16 man battle royales, and you actually have to go through 2-3 full floors of dungeon for the good shit.

[calm prairie]

@glacial dragon druid already getting shapeshifting

[tight elbow]

kick mechanic to displace normal mobs. plz. I’m tired of getting bodyblocked by skeletons and spiders

[abstract swallow]

Kick and blockshove are a must tbh, especially if enemies are going to continue to path into you and kill your movement latency

[granite plinth]

no not in high rollers in normal caves. Im with whites and greys learning the game and theres teams with straight purples and capes rings and all

[harsh jasper]

let us stomp spiders and push over these dusty old skeletons or not have them be brick walls at the very least

i cannot describe the hatred i have for hovering on top of spiders

[stuck perch]

Those should be rarer but they're much more frequent since they increased the player cap per map. Restoring that balance should do wonders. That said, having talked to some of the players who do that, they say that there's no incentive not to do this because there's HR doesn't provide enough incentive, and there's nothing else.

[errant sigil]

They need to reduce the waiting for players time to 1min

[stuck perch]

Why? it's already insanely quick for most matches. Getting additional time allows us to test stuff on the dummies.

[errant sigil]

You don’t play runes than I wait 3:00min every time…

[stuck perch]

I'd be fine with that.

[jolly reef]

i agree i waited until there were 20seconds for a highroller game

[granite plinth]

Had to bring this up, I saw poor newbies get taken out by centapede near the cave exit/extraction point in goblin cages. Maybe make it so that u have to enter the room or hit the miniboss to aggro him.

[lucid vortex]

Rubysilver and cobalt weapons plz 🙂

[patent mauve]

Give better treasure quality different twinkling effects / Even a slight color

[severe turtle]

Should be a requeue option after dying

[serene valley]

there should be an emote or something for all bards where they play nice music and can move. just to add some fun and nice atmosphere

[fervent tundra]

Haste should Give a 15-17% speed boost, and invisibility (Spell) shouldn't give any speed boost

[sinful pike]

The fucking rogue problem needs to be addressed players are leaving because a rogue can 2 shot people this needs to be fucking fixed

im tired of doing HR just to get shit on by a rogue after killing a boss no chance to even fight back like what is this..... stay tuned for the youtube video

[stuck perch]

Whether this is ok or not is entirely dependant on who gets one shotted with what.

[sinful pike]

happened to me on warlock with a yellow top on and full purple / happened to me on a fighter in full purple / happened to me on barb as well

[sinful pike]

you know it's a fucking problem with hr goblin cave is 7 rogues and 3 other classes are either fighters / clerics and on hr games in general 50% of the lobby is solo rogues

[stuck perch]

That this happens on a fighter or barb with at least equivalent gear is senseless. Squishy characters I'm more open to them getting bursted down.

[sinful pike]

me 2 i understand the purpose of a rogue is to ambush but killing a person with a dagger in 2 hits?

[ebon idol]

Rogue has a lot of damage multipliers that stack. I don't know why weakpoint and ambush stack

[sinful pike]

yeah they need to dumb them down big time it doesn't need to increase weapon damage by 50% thats crazy and also having a posion perk and weakpoint on

[ebon idol]

Poison is not the problem imo. Stacking up to 130% extra damage is. There is no reason why the third hit of a castillion dagger deals 200+ damage

[sinful pike]

correct i understand that, they need to just redo the math across the board for damage for every class... Rogue needs a big nerf I have killed the HR troll numerous times and have ran into rogues sitting at the door every kill....

and either 1 hit me or 2 shot me before i can even enter phatom as a warlock

[ebon idol]

To be fair, I think it would already be fine if the changed that ambush and weakpoint don't stack and ambush only triggers if you hit an enemy from behind (like the backstab perk)

Rogues using stealth as an offensive cooldown to get +50% damage is just... not what I expect from the class.

[sinful pike]

I also have numerous clips of rougues just charging me and stabbing me in the front killing me instantly while wearing all purples 2 hits as a warlock numerous times and 4 hits on fighter

[errant sigil]

I was playing rogue and stopped playing it because it’s garbage and only is good when you’re super geared which most likely those people arnt playing legit or are very dedicated.

[sinful pike]

all you need is a blue dagger my friend trust me.. I've had to result to playing rogue to farm the troll in hr because of how hard you hit and if someone is already farming it i just wait and kill them instantly

[stuck perch]

You should see me play rogue. I take none of the extra damage perks...

[amber rivet]

Then you aren’t playing rogue

[stuck perch]

Assassin rogue is part of the rogue fantasy. But it shouldn't kill tanky classes that fast.

[stuck perch]

Maybe, but I love me some trap detection and those other utility perks.

Just like thief and trapster rogue are also part of the rogue class fantasy.

[ebon idol]

Cleric rogue is also more insane than people realise. With divine strikes, a dagger punches 2 rarities above its weight class. A blue dagger deals damage like a orange/legendary dagger, a green one like a purple and so on.

[sonic timber]

My personal take is that too many stats and modifiers have created a muddy situation where some classes benefit obscenely from rolls that other otherwise be mediocre on others, Rogues with weapon damage modifiers scale tremendously off a +1 roll, mainly due to daggers fast attack speed, low movement penalty, and animation that allows for easy head strikes, most of this I feel is fine for rogues. But the scaling is too off for some of these stat modifiers.

[stuck perch]

The game lacks flat damage reduction. If that were around, daggers wouldn't that great. Just let something like 15% of all damage bypass it so as to not make people completely immune to low damage weapons.

[sonic timber]

I agree that daggers, being primarily stabbing weapons need armor penetration on them to a certain degree. But I feel at this point, the item modifier system needs to be revamped because of obscure application of some modifiers, as well as the scaling issues of others currently.

[stuck perch]

Give some armor flat damage reduction, especially plate armor. Fighters are no longer burstable by rogues!

[sonic timber]

Finding an epic or legendary should feel good, but if it got a class limitation to barbarian, fighter or ranger, and it got will, knowledge, and regular interaction speed on it, finding that epic/higher item makes for a disappointment as well, this is another issue I feel is an issue with the current statline system

[ebon idol]

The error in the thinking is that rogues do not deal little damage hits.

They deal 200 damage in a single strike to the head as is

[placid cobalt]

remove ranger class

[stuck perch]

increase health from strength, it should help make classes that should be able to take hits, actually take hits.

[ebon idol]

That would lead to struggle for everyone who doesn't have armor pen. Armor scales with the HP of the user.

[zealous otter]

barbs could use a hp or damage reduction, either you one shot people or you don't die because you have twice the hp and resistance as everyone else shouldn't have both. if there hp was 100 instead of 130 think would balance it out, or cut the damage they do by a flat 25%

[ebon idol]

Barb is at an alright spot atm I think.

[stuck perch]

They're the slowest class and use the slowest weapons. With movement speed being so important in this game I don't feel bad that they do more damage. However they should get more hp. It's not like they wouldn't be shot down by a ranger hitting them multiple times in the head.

[prisma dock]

Doesn’t warlock blow of corruption almost one shot most kitted rouges with a gray staff lol

[zealous otter]

they are the slowest but with wizard and bard buff they run faster then everyoe but a rogue with weapon away, they just put weapons away to run faster then pull out when they on you

[prisma dock]

Oh cool I even have a clip of a warlock with a gray starting staff almost one shorting a rouge in full purp with a cape lol blow of corruption moment

[icy panther]

Barb's only problem is that his counter is keeping doors behind you open to kite him, going anywhere close to a barb is asking for death.

[vivid vine]

The barb needs a lunge ability or something to be able to catch /slow enemies who constantly kite

[prisma dock]

But if you can’t kite barb he beats every class lol

[icy panther]

Nah, I think ankleshot is more than enough since it works on Francisa's.

[zealous otter]

that only applies to 1v1 sometimes if your in a team your outrunning everyone and 1 shot because most people cant kite with weapon out, barb will just take a fireball to the face then 1 shot you

[icy panther]

Not to mention it's not hard to just approach someone as barb since you have a huge health pool, they get cornered eventually.

[stuck perch]

If you see them coming him coming a hasted barb is still put down. Haste also doesn't make you immune to hunter traps, slow, and other debuffs.

[zealous otter]

hunter traps mostly useless you can jump over, thats a skill issue, getting cornered and 1 tapped is a balance issue

[vivid vine]

It’s impossible to catch players that kite as a barbarian as soon as you get close the weapon swing slows you down to a crawl

[zealous otter]

your still just thinking about a 1v1, think of bard and wizard haste

[icy panther]

Easy leg shot to slow him down.

@vivid vine
That's literally the point, a barbarian's counter is movement.

[zealous otter]

most of the time they are going to use a horsemans axe and 1 shot you that doesnt slow them down at all

[vivid vine]

So don’t balance goblin caves I don’t play the 3v3’s

[boreal ledge]

Teaming in solo dungeons should be bannable offense

[zealous otter]

if they buff you for goblin cave your gonna make it to strong for teams

and in goblin caves you just push and corner the person its super close no one is out running you, if your struggle in goblin caves as barb its a skill issue just need practice

[ebon idol]

When they released the solo map, they said they would not balance for solo, only trio. And that makes sense.

You can't possible balance for solos, duos and trios at the same time. It doesn't work. Solo and duo will always be under the priority of trio balancing.

[zealous otter]

they point of the game is to meet people crawl through a dungeon like dungeons and dragons the solo and duo are mainly there for people who want to test there skills or arent social and cant get along with people

[sick cloud]

lmao no thats so stupid

[zealous otter]

agreed

[ebon idol]

Yeah. But they still said they won't consider it when doing balance. They will only balance for trios. Which makes sense because it is impossible to balance all classes for all modes at the same time.

[vivid vine]

It’s cool just I can never catch anyone as soon as they see me they put away weapons and run shoot and run repeat I just don’t get how I can get up to someone’s back but as soon as I swing I miss because they are out of range with any two hander

[zealous otter]

for sure makes sense, sorry was agreeing with you just wanted to add on to why they cant balance solo and duo

[spark crest]

Everything killed him should be banned forever

[zealous otter]

just gotta practice dodging arrows by crouching and looking up to the left or right, you can see them aim so if they aim for foot jump. wizards just keep ducking behind a wall they run outta spells, only real problem for barbs is warlocks solo

[vivid vine]

Can’t dodge a fireball like that and when I do get close to warlock they always have a falcion that hits harder than my two hander anyway

[zealous otter]

you can dodge fireballs, i myself am still working out how to counter warlocks though

only thing ive found is put weapon away to dance with them and then get the headshot with your buffs to 1shot them and stop there heals

[icy panther]

Depends on the warlock, if it's a smarter warlock that forsakes spells then the only thing you can do is bring a shield or somehow run faster than phantasm

[vivid vine]

Lol good thing a barbarian can do both of those things lol

[icy panther]

For barb vs wizard, jump the fireball and let it rocket boost you towards the wizard :^)

[zealous otter]

well they cant do anything in phantasm so you gotta get used to timing it out and can get the headshot once they get outta it, shield does work but i dont use shields im a wizard main xD

[icy panther]

Oh well for wizards just keep zapping, phantasm makes them take bonus magic damage.

[zealous otter]

oh yea i dont struggle vs them was trying to think of barb vs warlock

[icy panther]

Yeah, barb vs warlock is harsh but usually you can tank a hit and exchange for a oneshot most of the time

[zealous otter]

usually my strat vs everyone tank a hit and then 1 shot, as barb

[icy panther]

Unless they have spells, in which case it's like a kid with a kite.

[zealous otter]

plus barbs dont really take magic damage you have a bonus 100 mr then you get gear you can tank 4 fireballs to the face without going to half health

[icy panther]

Yup, the bonus 100 is a major benefit to barb when MR is so scarce otherwise

[zealous otter]

if it was like 60 MR would also balance it out a bit more i think, just dont think they should be able to run 3 people down tanking every hit from a wiz/fighter/warlock with their bard/wiz/cleric buffs then 1 shot 3 people at a time

[vivid vine]

Well anyway I was just trying to figure something out because it’s so easy to kite barbs with every ranged class barbs throwing weapons are so limited it’s stupid miss once with the hardest weapon to hit ranged then your stuck chasing till your dead

[zealous otter]

only thing you should struggle with after practicing is warlocks really, you can dodge wiz spells and use fireball to help you, and arrows get dodged easy thats why rangers run, and once they are outta arrows they cant do anything but accept there defeat

if you let the ranger hold up and keep hitting you then you will struggle but you can make them push you or wait it out dodging

[vivid vine]

I have to Dodge 30 arrows😂

[zealous otter]

no you just dodge til they have to reload

then they are slower then you are swinging a double axe while holding shift, can rush after that

[vivid vine]

And with wizards as soon as I get close they haste away and do it again

[zealous otter]

100MR you can tank 4 fireballs to the head and barely hit half hp you jump and let hit legs so you can get closer you wont even lose 25% hp after 5. the biggest struggle is magic missle but if your close doesnt matter youll 1 tap before they finish, can also hide around a corner and missles wont hit you

they only have 4-5 of each spell (not including chain lightning which is 3) so you can dodge everything and use fireballs to get close wizard cant do anything but except death, if you practice cutting people off they cant run either

[livid mesa]

BUFF CHEATERS

[turbid hamlet]

arrows can get dodged easy I guess sure? but all they need to do is hit 1-2 shots and you're not w-keying anymore

the damage on ranged weapons is absurd, anyone thats half decent at the bow makes it extremely oppressing

any good wizard completely puts barbarian on farm

barb is literally just a noob stomper unless hasted/invis'd in, you just hope the other player is bad and that you'll just steamroll them unless you're nutty with the throwing axes

[granite plinth]

Change highroller back to 100 or 200g, I shouldn’t load into highroller and make 50g back in the first 5 seconds of playing

[glacial moon]

Fix these trash vendors so they not are the same for EVERYYONE IN THE WORLD! I can't even trade 10 throwing knifes for 250G from a stranger in rogue chat because vendor not sells any...! So this means that vendors are the same for all players. What a great system to rely on! This means that i will now take a break from the game and not be playing! Amazing system time for some air. Thank you IM to let me get some fresh air i probally needs it and thus i left the game. Cya when vendors are on your focus again!

[peak jay]

Add heath bars over bosses this would be a huge quality of life also add slightly better loot in normal hell and more portals to incentives more people going to hell

[twilit rock]

why does bard not get any xp for suppoing his team and not killing mobs

[tropic agate]

Find something to stop the teaming in goblin cave

[dim salmon]

so i have a question guys and i know my englisch isnt the best but i am frustrated. i am a casual in dark and darker (playing 1 hour a day maybe 2 ) i like this game and was excited when they announced the wipe. BUT i have 1 major problem. 2 Days after wipe i got already lobby full of gigachads lvl 15+ and full gear sets . how am i supossed to handle this chads. and even if i win a trade there is already the next drums or flutes and a fighter who just runs me over

[ancient briar]

Please add locking of items that you would like to purchase from merchants so those items dont disappear in refresh\

[short heath]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/472659/matchmaking-balance-calculation-suggestion

[blazing hedge]

no?

[ancient briar]

noob

[whole plinth]

fuck all this people who premade in goblin caves

[vernal hedge]

oh god, it pains me to see this is getting traction.
Also we should be able to downvote suggestions

[untold stream]

"Dark and Darker is a world of high risks and high returns. Explore a mystical underground fortress where the dangers are unrelenting and even the smallest misstep can result in death."
Not anymore lol

[vernal hedge]

This.
Gear disparity and snowballing are such a large factor of these games, if I want a perfectly balanced and fare experience ill go play cs:go, it's not what these games should be about.
hopefully they take one from tarkov's book and don't make any changes to the matchmaking other than group sizes(has in adding different queues,granted this also bring the issue of segmenting your community too much) and going more at the root of the issue which is progression and the "end-game" not being necessarly worth it which makes it more appealing for geared squads to roll in normal modes

Similar situation with geared people going normal mode goblin caves.
Why should they not if they can consistently make more money there at a lesser risk than they could on other maps?

[faint epoch]

I agree that at the time, the problem would be that for a full geared squad, the basic dungeon is just no risk, almost same reward

I've seen some fully equipped team running into each other, but just like 2-3 times, where seeing a geared up team just destroying the entire lobby is something i see happening far too much

[short heath]

There are huge potential gains for running HR. You find gear that is worth significantly more in HR bossing than you do anywhere else in the game. 99% of the time when a group goes into no-ante lobbies with full gear and an inventory filled with consumable heals, they leave with nothing because there is nothing to gain of actual value.

[charred nova]

pleas just optimize the game, it jumps from 60 fps to 15-20 in fights

what have you done to the optimisation, its not even fun to play, lags on the 3060 fix this

[plush orchid]

No lag on 2080, funny huh.

[charred nova]

thats interesting, why everything with the every single game is ok: rust, starwarsbattlefront, war thunder on ultra etc, and this lags

[vernal hedge]

I agreed with you, the problem is those potentials gains are not consistent enough, so you have an harder dungeons, going against(arguably) better and more geared players, and not only that but a large part of it relies on you have a bard with luck potion to get the actual good chance at orange loot.
Imo bossing should be buffed but has should the rewards, and bard needs to be less of a reliance for getting proper loot

it also brings an issue that most people have low to no experience with HR (and hell but to a lesser extent) so that only makes the gap larger

[faint epoch]

I'd like to go for hell more often, but my friends just dont want to cause the risk is far too high compared to the possible rewards (we are going mostly blind), so yeah i can understand other people thinking like that

[short heath]

Almost nobody has hell experience because the no-lifers prevent them from even being able to get to a red portal as a whole team 90% of the time, and arguably, no-ante hell runs are legitimately the fastest way to get full blue sets. So the problem is no-lifers not having the balls to run HR.

So because they won't do it on their own accord, there needs to be a system that forces them into HR lobbies or at least to go against players similar to their level.

[faint epoch]

Actually one of the biggest problems i have with fully geared people is that unless they wear a cape, there is no real way of knowing they outgear you hard. So if "know when to avoid fight" is something i agree on, it's kinda hard for now

[short heath]

This, too. Someone said they could easily tell and they guessed the average tier of gear on screenshots I sent to them and they got less than 40% of them correct/even relatively close.

[vernal hedge]

I don't think the issue is as much going to hell, I've been going there quite a few times this wipe, the issue is the time and effort you have and loot not being that worth it, out of 10 runs I did the most worth thing I got was a 300g purple falchion, granted we did drop some okay items just not for me which can just be an rng issue, but I could be way more chill doing goblin caves mining and getting 200-300g a run quite consistently. the aspect of risk/reward still needs work done which is fine, that's why we are here
I just don't see bracketing players with gear being a solutions has then you'll just force people that aren't good enough to now just run grey gear and you segment the community which makes it even easier to snipe lobbys, specially in HR

[short heath]

With appropriate tiers, which will take time to fine-tune, it won't be as drastic as you're making it out to be. Just because a new player gets a few greens doesn't mean they're thrown into the highest bracket. There should be a minimum of 4 brackets with a healthy population to make GBMM realistically effective at it's purpose.

[vernal hedge]

like Uma said gear identification is also a big problem
And i agreed there needs to be a way to get people to go there more often, I think that the 50g fee instead of 100 is a step in the right direction but what I'd personally do is have it be free for a wipe like tarkov did with labs, to allow people to experience it without risk, get familiar with is, get them a taste of "the forbidden fruit"
after that lock it behind lvl 15 and 50g as is and i think we will see a larger adoption of it

[faint epoch]

I am frustrated too that with my skills and stuff i keep running into fully geared people, but its not that common either. I've never really seen people keeping check of all the portals too, most of the time they just kill whoever they encounter then either leave or reach hell. And i also think a fully different matchmaking where only people of the same gear tier would kill the whole point of a game like this, i've seen people in green/white stuff killing fully geared people, me included. The main issue would be the appeal for new players, having a lot of new people on a game is cool, and if the game stays too elitist i fear that there would be fewer and fewer people playing

[vernal hedge]

It's a fare point and a fine line to walk on.
All I can really base it on is tarkov and how they haven't really made any steps towards simplifying the game(in fact they made it harder/slower), changing matchmaking(actually made naked running and low gear running more punishable with Scav's Tagged-and-cursed mechanic) yet the game still keeps growing.

[nova lake]

An auction house would be nice

[faint epoch]

I say that as someone that usually hate battle-royale games, i never played any kind of game like this before. The momentary frustration of getting killed by someone that has full gear is beated by the fact i know the game is still evolving, and some issue wont stay forever. The issue i have is mainly that those people with full gear are almost all the time the only person in the lobby with it so the risk isnt that high for them.

[vernal hedge]

as a long time tarkov player, personally, I hope we don't see an auction house, it messes with progressions immensely specially once you get quest's ingame and stuff.
some of the best times in tarkov were before the flea market streamlined everything

and if gear disparity is bad now, it'll just get worse when the top players that are rich anyways can get their juicy gear even easier

[nova lake]

there is no quest related items though, i understand since i got 1k in tarkov but instead of trying to compete with 400 other people seelling items in one chat i can walk away and come back, an auction house wont mess with progression since there is no progression

[faint epoch]

Yeah on the gear discussion, i feel like the quests will bring a good way of getting good items consistently to people that struggle with the gameplay with no stuff

[junior jacinth]

boo quests booooo

[vernal hedge]

there will be quest tough, and progression is also item progression, you can look at how tarkov was when flea was introduced back then(if you played at the time), it was unlocked at lvl 10 at the time, no items where locked to sell there so within 4 hours of the wipe i'd be running the same meta build I was running last week before the wipe, with meta ammo

[tropic pond]

Do you guys think there will be a kind of match making that count your killing ratio or maybe your escape ratio ? Or do i miss the reason to not doing that

[wind leaf]

For Rouge's Ambush Perk (50% extra dmg out of stealth). Add like 3 seconds in stealth requirement until it activates. Rouges just popping stealth in combat, or drinking invis potion mid fight just to proc it it's bad design.

[vernal hedge]

Iirc the devs current stance is no, but I tried to find where it was stated but couldn’t find so take with a grain of salt.

Personally I’d hope not had that would homogenize games and then you’d always still have complaints about smurfs,etc

But if the community ask for it they’d probably consider it and maybe test it

[wind leaf]

This way you are meant to actually Ambush and not have one button 50% extra dmg pop.

[radiant anvil]

make a class that can disguise as nearby enemy players

[old jackal]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/483888/percentage-based-recoverable-hp UPVOTE FOR BETTER RECOVERABLE HP!! GIVE BARBARIANS SOME LOVE

[hoary thicket]

We need loadouts for builds with perks.
It's annoying to have to change everything when you try to change your class role, or if you want to switch from playing solo to playing with friends
I think 2 or 3 are fine
sorry for my bad english

[subtle summit]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/479719/barbarian-perksskills-need-rework
I am once again asking for your updoot support for your local barbarians. For just one updoot a day, a barbarian can eat for a week

[soft finch]

Hell no

[atomic hazel]

i suggest the removal of the team only voice chat it's very clearly a direct advantage to the team against solo players because these teams are able to yell commands at each other over the mic which we should be able to hear so we can counter it as it'd be in real life. The fact they can run around the map talking and we dont hear it at all is kind of BS the amount of times i'll be fighting 1 person only for 2 more to come out of no where and help them is insane. Now if i heard them screaming for help i'd at least be able to run away

[eternal cipher]

ppl will just use discord

[atomic hazel]

so be it but it should be removed from game

[eternal cipher]

I understand what you mean and it would be cool to have that ability, but sweats would just use discord which is what i think you are trying to prevent, so IM may as well have the option in game so ppl don't have to use discord

[old jackal]

forcing people to use discord seems more like an enforced inconvenience than a justifiable change

[eternal cipher]

that's a good way of putting it

[atomic hazel]

no ones forcing you to use anything there an ingame voice chat you can be using it simply shouldnt be in its own channel

anything said in game should be heard be anyone nearby

[summer drift]

Imo Cleric heals shouldn't be instant, they should have a small timer like 5-10 seconds with a non-stacking recovery effect so that healing can't be spammed infinitely

[old jackal]

fundamentally, yeah no one is forcing me to use discord. situationally, this change would highly encourage 3rd party communication software instead of allowing the devs to give us players the convienience of not needing to use these tools for comms especially randoms from the gathering hall. This recommendation doesn't help anyone it just hurts those without communication software availability

[atomic hazel]

or you could not use a way to cheese the game? you doing that gives you an obvious advantage and you know that which is why you use it

[old jackal]

if you believe the game's intended playstyle is within VOIP communication only, sure. However, IRONMACE devs designing a discord with 100+ channels for communicating with other players would suggest discord is an accepted way of communication

[odd patio]

Nerf ranger, its busted class without any cons. On long range u outclassed everyone and mele u can just one shot with tripleshoot

[atomic hazel]

and the whole point of this thread is to make suggestions if enough people agree you never know. This decision benefits teams only everysingle solo player that tries going into any dungeon other than the goblin tunnels is basically crippled right from the start and it's in no way fair.

[old jackal]

I wasn't degrading your suggestion/opinion. The term "cheese the game" referring to 3rd party communication was incorrect. If you feel entitled to the need for advantageous SFX besides what is already given to you in-game (ex: footsteps, instruments, equipment) that's up to you man

[late dome]

There's limited casts for each spell, it's already not infinite

[sinful pike]

WHY CAN BARDS STILL THROW DRUMS AND WHY DOES IT DO 80 DAMAGE TO A FUCKIGN WARLOCK @dawn grotto

[glacial moon]

I know i am a rogue and not a ninja but - We have tetsubishi(caltrops/spikes) but no Shuriken(blades) yet - Remove throwing knifes and replace Shuriken blades! Thank you be❤️ones - Best of best IM's ❤️

[atomic hazel]

lol anything you dont like is entitlement i guess huh It's not an advantage. YOU having your own coms channel is an advantage

[plush orchid]

because drums are bard items and they are throwable

[glacial moon]

Why u highlight a ironmace admin for your "rage moment opinions" ? Now imagine 50,000 other ppl doing the same. How would you feel?.
Your corruption blow mixed with headshot 1 shot rogues n what not. How about that? Why u not scream your lungs out for a fix of this? Maybe because you playing warlock and doing exatcly that and then dies to a drum bard so u had to scream your lungs out instead on discord and even highlights a ironmace admin. Very rude.

[feral remnant]

That you can select if you are a solo, duo or trio, seems to me a step back in the game. The interesting thing is not knowing how many you are going to meet. Knowing that they are going to be 1 or 2 or 3 takes a lot out of the game. Another thing would be that of 18 people 3 groups of 3. two of 2 and 5 of 1. or variants. that would be fun. you never know what can happen.

[summer drift]

They're more than enough to essentially be infinite in pvp unless a fight really drags on for over a full minute

People are complaining that the bard shouldn't replenish spells but the real issue is that the cleric can just spam instant healing everywhere. The song isn't broken on wizards.

[ebon idol]

If your fighter dies before you run out of healing spells guess the healing isn't so instant

[summer drift]

A good healer will never let the fighter die, that's why the current buff-ball meta with bard, cleric, fighter works

You have to deal an insane amount of DPS to kill a fighter being actively healed and not a lot of builds can do that

I feel that with the current vision of the game focusing on downtime and recovering from fights the cleric would feel a lot better as someone who heals people back to full out of combat, but not someone who actively spams nothing but heals during a fight

[ebon idol]

That is the role some want for the cleric and if you are not able to take out the healing cleric you took a poor fight.

[dusky kernel]

New item, poison vial
Coats your weapon: next attack 2/3/4 dmg over 4 seconds, healing reduced by 2/3/40% for 4 seconds
¯_(ツ)_/¯

Would more anti-heal be sufficient to counter mid fight heals?

[fleet coral]

Can we get an Auction House? I'd love to be able to sell things when I'm not online or diving in the dungeon. Like what WoW has.

[copper cosmos]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/482996/remove-trading-hall-or-keep-the-player-base-poor-the-game-is-to-easy the trading hall is such a crutch for gear progression vote if you agree

[spiral cargo]

You should make Goblin and Kobold a race to play

[main kernel]

Gear based matchmaking needs to become high prio. I imagined wipe would do good, but it's already filled in normals again with blue+ teams dominating.

[ionic lily]

Every single game with any system of skill based matchmaking does terrible, HR is the suppose to be gear matchmaking

[tawny lantern]

if you want sbmm go play cod

[subtle summit]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/479719/barbarian-perksskills-need-rework
For just one updoot a day, you can feed a local barb

[fickle wave]

@dawn grotto How about we make the goblin caves default loadout only people going in there and slaughtering with full ruby silver is a fucking joke bad for the game. How do you expect a solo to gain exp and level with people like that?

[granite plinth]

we need milk in the game https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/482571/add-milk-to-the-game

[lyric yew]

MAKE A MODE (playlist) option
Where you start with grey

[worldly wraith]

Don't forget about Zombie gas lasting forever
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/481904/fix-zombie-gas-lifetime-wall-clipping

[cinder rover]

When can we get some sort of training camp mode where we can go in and test on dummies with 0 armour and up

[cedar needle]

Where are the warlock fixes and updates!!! @dawn grotto @keen onyx

[fluid marsh]

I would love to see damage breakdowns after a run ( who you killed/who killed you with what and how much damage that did)

[plush orchid]

Would be nice if Patch times were rotated atleast a tiny bit. So far all patches have been pushed on EU primetime

[stuck perch]

Why are they moving away from restacking the ruins with the crypts? Their first attempt at it wasn't great but they promised they wouldn't give up on it. They reason we weren't playing ruins had nothing to do with the player queue, and making it duo queue only isn't going to change the 8+ solo rogues per lobby problem.

[lone crescent]

Maybe they will do a new 3 floor dungeon?

[distant scaffold]

I think Removing the fee for HighRollers is a bad idea, it's going to cause triple stack rogues a lot more than you think, and honestly it gives no real reason to go normal dungeon now, when you can go highroller for free and get better loot, you just have to kill harder things

[sonic sand]

Devs basically just said 'ok so instead of forcing players that should be in HR out of normals we'll just make it so players that shouldn't be in HR can go into HR as well.'

You get blue/purple geared teams in normal dungeons so there's no reason not to go into HR straight away as a new character. Any mob can be read and or cheesed so you just get more loot at same/similar risk. gg

[lone crescent]

It's early access, they are testing

[crisp hatch]

Hr free sounds fine to me you have to be lv15 and have 5 days of game time dude

[lone crescent]

Personally i don't mind taking greens to go in HR and learn the map

[crisp hatch]

You can’t just join hr on a fresh account

[abstract swallow]

okay I'm gonna have to level with you ironmace
stop trying to do balance updates while the game is blatantly missing so much content
it keeps biting you in the cheeks every single time you add something and then have to go back and salve the hurt butts of those impacted by it

[crisp hatch]

They are making very good balance changes

[abstract swallow]

no, they're giving in to kneejerk community feedback from loud, vocal minorities
and worse, the changes are directly applied to the items and abilities in question, rather than adressing the fundamental problems creating balance issues

[crisp hatch]

Nah they are only changing things based on data dude. You don’t know anything you’re talking about

[short heath]

Bard nerfs were definitely knee-jerk and not required at all, uh huh. You're clueless.

[abstract swallow]

they just nerfed falchion twice in a row

[sonic sand]

Also, still changing base damage rather than working on the real problem in items : added modifiers.

[crisp hatch]

Falcion is still out performing most one hand weapons

[lone crescent]

2 hander Barb was weak and got a buff, Horseman was op and got a nerf, Viking sword and Kriss were garbage and they buffed

[short heath]

Very deserved nerfs. You're clueless if you think otherwise.

[crisp hatch]

Viking sword might be viable now

[sonic sand]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/475021/rework-items-not-classes

[lone crescent]

@abstract swallow when a Bard with a 1 hander with huge range can 3 shot a Barbarian you know there's a problem

[brave vigil]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/484360/kill-reward-to-disincentivizie-teaming how about adding a kill reward, like a lootable item from corpse (not by teammates) to dis-incentivice teaming

[lone crescent]

That incentivizes noob stomping

[vocal rapids]

Removing the last goblin cave portal is cringe

[crisp hatch]

I think we should be able to take souls in goblin caves

[vocal rapids]

Ofc for sure would have ressed many

[lone crescent]

They removed the last portal cause they removed one player from the lobby

[abstract swallow]

Falchion was and still is popular because it's easy to use, not because it's good. Before the nerf it served a niche as a weapon for trading out of shield block.
It was already mathematically worse than its peers, on top of the higher penalties and terrible moveset.

[crisp hatch]

Til a certain level character

[vocal rapids]

But like that extra person isn’t the issue. It’s the circle

[stuck perch]

Restack the Ruins map back over the crypts and inferno map like the original concept was intended suggestion.
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/484362/restack-the-ruins-map-back-over-the-crypts-and-inferno-map-like-the-original-con#comment541451

[crisp hatch]

Brah this dude is so slow falchion before any nerfs was the strongest weapon in the game lmao he literally has no clue what he is saying

[lone crescent]

More then half of the lobby could extract before

[brave vigil]

@lone crescent on one side yes, however it's also frustrating to kill 3 naked rogues in high roller and getting nothing for it

[short heath]

"Weapon not good cuz math, ignore reach and swing pattern xdd me genius"

[vocal rapids]

Yeah but 80% of the lobby can extract in the dungeon

[safe root]

would be nice if they added a gametime count so u know how many hours u got into the game

[stuck perch]

Then make the kill reward (call it a bounty) only apply to high roller.

[lone crescent]

That feels like trolling, Falchion was meta for any class who has access to it

[crisp hatch]

You got to kill rogues that was your reward

[brave vigil]

do you guys really let naked people live? i always get a purple axe to the face tbh

[short heath]

I've given up on him and @stuck perch

[sonic sand]

That's like saying Zweihander is good 'cause it's high damage.
Damage numbers don't mean shit if you can't get an attack off because of its pattern.
Falchion has arguably the greatest anim set of all 1-handers + relatively high damage to boot. Only drawback is it's swingspeed which isn't half as bad as it could be (like maul).

[crisp hatch]

You have to have high charisma @brave vigil

[vocal rapids]

You guys are upset around the wrong thing. That extra portal not spawning just made caves non viable

[sonic sand]

No, they could be hiding juicy gear/sellables in inventory.

[crisp hatch]

Dude caves is where noobs go anyways

[lone crescent]

"only drawback is it's swinging speed" *laughing in Viking sword

[vocal rapids]

Tell me you get soloed easily without telling me lol

[lone crescent]

@brave vigil try using voip

[crisp hatch]

Because I claimed it’s where noobs go? It has trash loot dude

[vocal rapids]

Lolol

[granite plinth]

🥛🇦 🇩 🇩 🥛 🇲 🇮 🇱 🇰 🥛🇹 🇴 🥛🇹 🇭 🇪 🥛🇬 🇦 🇲 🇪 🥛 https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/482571/add-milk-to-the-game

[dire ridge]

please add meowing emote or emoji where the character meows loudly, such as a cat, or perhaps a feline

[crisp hatch]

And most people don’t have any gear on lol so there is no incentive to even kill people

[vocal rapids]

I made 700g on my last high roller cave extract so idk where you’re getting that

[crisp hatch]

I’m speaking on regular caves my guy

[brave vigil]

@lone crescent yes i know, however they want to reduce teaming as per their latest announcement

[vocal rapids]

The portal in question affects HR imo and is extremely balance Changing

[crisp hatch]

But it depends what class you main for real. Not gonna go solo bard in hr goblin caves

[vocal rapids]

I’ve seen some bards in there that terrify Lolol

[lone crescent]

You could actually drop purple gear from normal Caves and minibosses have a huge chance to drop rings and pendants

You run goblin caves for an hour and you end up full of jewelry

[crisp hatch]

Lol y’all stay in caves too much

[brave vigil]

@lone crescent i'm not saying "make a kill worth 100 gp". just some coins instead of none. the price of the kill bounty item would influence the decision to team or kill

[vocal rapids]

It’s fun in caves!! Try it I swear it’s fun

[marsh musk]

Feature Request: Implement a proper patching system, so we can get the new server versions instantly!

[abstract swallow]

again, it was meta because it was easy to use
it literally did 0 damage on sourspot hits to limbs until partway through the preseason, it wasn't used because it was GOOD, it was used because it FELT good

[crisp hatch]

Lol this guy is so dumb

[lone crescent]

@brave vigil i know what you are saying but that's a no for me, pvp shouldn't give any reward, only loot.

If they give any kind of reward from killing players people will start taking purple and oranges into normal lobbies to get those rewards

[stuck perch]

Restack the Ruins map back over the crypts and inferno map like the original concept was intended suggestion.
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/484362/restack-the-ruins-map-back-over-the-crypts-and-inferno-map-like-the-original-con#comment541451

[brave vigil]

@lone crescent so nothing really new? they do that now anyways because its profit without risk

[lone crescent]

And you should give them even more profit?

[brave vigil]

that's just a scaling issue, which they are also currently tackling

standard gear is too weak, endgame gear too strong. that's literally what they changed with this patch

[lone crescent]

You just need any green piece of equipment with +3 all and any white weapon and you are a god for grey players

[brave vigil]

like i said. scaling issue, that shouldn't inform your decision on other features. they will get the balance right eventually (at least i hope so)

[abstract swallow]

finally adjusting rarity scaling is a godsend, I hope they tackle armor next but obviously they need to rework the AR curve with that

[queen sable]

it's still rock paper scissors IMO. if +3 all was such a "you become god" then bless would be so much more popular

[lusty halo]

I think player souls should be worth a small amount of gold

[lone crescent]

I mean grey gear will always be trash compared to higher rarities as it should be

[sonic sand]

Except they didn't fix anything. All they did was change base values. What makes higher rarity gear so much stronger is the added values, + True Damage and such.

[brave vigil]

i know it's not fully fixed but they are working on it. let's see how it feels

[queen sable]

nah man a starter battle axe does like 35 damage, a white does like 40 damage, and a green like 45 damage. +1 true physical is nice but the grade from grey to green is already +10 damage

[lusty halo]

There should be a Rock Paper Scissors emote to decide who in the team gets to take the portal

[abstract swallow]

yeah, I'm willing to let them cook since The weapon damage gap between the different grades has been reduced. is an ACTIVE step to addressing the issues on a fundamental level
they can tackle stat stacking next

[arctic lagoon]

this

[stuck perch]

Suggestion about rogue caltrops.
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/484379/fixes-to-rogues-caltrops
Basically increase the size of the effect, and let us regain charges in the dungeon somehow or turn them into a utility item like the ranger's trap.

[brave vigil]

@sonic sand i was just arguing in favor of some kind of kill reward/bounty item to dis-incentivice teaming (as they want) and give some reward for killing naked lootrunners (maybe in high roller only) https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/484360/kill-reward-to-disincentivizie-teaming and current balancing issues were used as a counter-argument (which i feel is invalid)

[sacred hedge]

removing the last portal from solos is just so bad imo, a lot of times you have issues finding a portal cuz of all th levels existing in goblin cave

[abstract swallow]

kill rewards are bad because they're a designed incentive for PvP, which the devs have stated should remain an emergent, risky interaction

[queen sable]

i hope they dont try anything too soon with stat stacking. because weapons were the real big issue IMO. most classes only needed a blue weapon to become disasters in a fight. If I found a bluee longsword on my melee warlock I could 1-2 shot most people

[sonic sand]

I agree with @lone crescent on that. Sounds like it'd incentivise noob stomping.

[crimson sand]

I think GC had too many portals + the staircase, removing is nice. It's very tempting to team up in GC especially with VOIP, but it shouldn't be rewarded or else you basically are playing the lottery on if you encounter a friendly partner in time before others do.

The most frusterating thing is when 5 people team up in GC and you walk into a room and get instant killed.

[abstract swallow]

stat stacking really is part-and-parcel with rarity scaling being a big issue
big weapons scale to insanity on rarity alone
small weapons scale to insanity with a bunch of cheap flat damage gear

[brave vigil]

@abstract swallow yet most play it for the pvp part or am i wrong? how would you dis-incentivice teaming without incentivizing pvp? just less portals in general will also incentivice pvp

[lone crescent]

Never saw 5 man teams, i never saw teaming actually in EA and i mostly played GC

[sonic sand]

5 man teams sounds incredibly dumb. Not everyone would get out..

[crimson sand]

If 2 different teaming groups converge and it ends friendly, you get a snowball of friendly lobby. Ends in either people dying to storm or betrayal.

[lone crescent]

I admit that i teamed once when levelling Rogue, he asked for help to hunt the geared Barbarian

[brave vigil]

i saw quite a couple of goblin cave runs where people teamed up. pretty boring, either you're part of the mob or you die. haven't seen much teaming in ruins/dungeon that is correct

[crimson sand]

Teaming isn't bad, it just shouldn't be the meta for GC. Lower portals helps keep the tension of teaming being a temporary and tense situation until it benefits you to leave.

[lone crescent]

Map have 9 players and 5 extractions

[blazing stratus]

The 120Hour requirement / 5 days, to be able to use the trading post wont do shit. Make it a "20 successful extractions" requirement or something like that

[sonic sand]

I respect that. Anything to get rid of the omegamales going into non-HR with HR-ready gear.

[queen sable]

if they are getting level 10 that quickly they probably have 20 extractions

[brave vigil]

had one game where a fullgear purple fighter just gathered everyone up and killed the ones that didn't want to team. it should be possible to team, so banning it would be wrong, but i agree with the devs that teaming shouldn't be the norm

[abstract swallow]

I'd just remove goblin caves outright if teaming is breaking the concept, you can't stop people from teaming without introducing strict behavior guidelines that will punish players for it (especially in a solos mode that massively rewards it), which is dumb because tentative cooperation was one of the original selling points of the game being a hardcore PvPvE extraction game in the first place
that said queue sniping to team from outside of the lobby needs to be removed/punishable

[lone crescent]

I looted the guy and gave my Rogue friend a couple of bis rings, he took the portal and i took the stairs, honor among thieves i guess

[turbid tulip]

Just dont allow VOIP in goblin caves

[crimson sand]

I think in part some of the issue is goblin caves is very small per player ratio vs Crypt. A larger solo map might have a more positive impact on solo gameplay.

[abstract swallow]

Can't be done. It's a botting/credit card fraud countermeasure.

[brave vigil]

@turbid tulip there is always a way. crouch spam was very common before voip