suggestion-discussion

[abstract swallow]

I didn't bother learning how to fight Wisps, I'd just jump the wall or ||well||

[lone crescent]

Why even bother, you crouch under them and they can't hit you

[ebon idol]

But the swordsman can.

[hazy tulip]

I didn't know that im not convinced this works

[lone crescent]

It does work both with archers and crossbow, the shoot at head level

[ebon idol]

The problem is not fighting the crossbowman when you get to them. The problem is getting 360 noscoped by it while you are fighting two shield guys.

[lone crescent]

Only for goblins is different cuz they are short

[hazy tulip]

is it like you look down too in order to hide ur head?

[ebon idol]

To fight goblins, slowly walk backwards.

[lone crescent]

No just normal crouch for crossbow

[abstract swallow]

CrossBones reminds me of old goblin caves, before IM worked their butts off fixing the map and it's collision

[lone crescent]

For archers you need to crouch then sidestep cause they adjust their aim for the second shot but you avoid it like that

[ebon idol]

Lol. When goblin bowmen where snipers tha oneshotted rogues with their poison arrow and had insane shoot frequency?

[hazy tulip]

Sounds useful if you are close to the m iguess. usually they will shoot before u geet that close

[lone crescent]

For that you can go zig zag and they can't hit you

[abstract swallow]

The shots that CrossBones will make since his shots don't arc is insane. Through multiple sets of bars. Weaved behind the gap of a torch scone. Clipped through the non-colliding area around a secret door.

[lone crescent]

Goblin archers could shoot through doors sometimes

[abstract swallow]

I SEE THAT THUMBS DOWN CALEB
EXPLAIN YOURSELF
DONT MAKE ME PEER PRESSURE YOU

[ebon idol]

However, I generally disagree with your suggestion.

I actually like the lack of mobility you have in the game, and I would prefer if it stayed as low as it was so far. It gives smart positioning and strategy an advantage and disables the abuse of movement tools to make some insane 600 IQ dodges impossible. I am gonna be honest. I don't like highly mobile PvP games. It is one of the reason why I love DnD as the first PvP game I ever played for more than 6 hours.

[autumn flare]

I don't like the idea of climbing and camping on 5 different layers of terrain, i play dungeon crawler to actually crawl in dungeon that's why i played DaD playtest, not assasin's creed. Also double jump just looks lame. I prefer it to be removed. That's my opinion.

[lone crescent]

That's not even the point of the suggestion

He said that the only way to balance double jump is letting others climb, if the game need to have lack of mobility how is a double jump even fair?

The only 2 ways are letting everyone do parkour or remove double jump

[autumn flare]

Option 2 is much better

[lone crescent]

Yes for me too

[ebon idol]

Second that. Removing double jump would be preferable to me.

[shrewd lagoon]

Double jump would be better if players weren’t able to change direction mid flight

[lone crescent]

Then maybe just a jump height buff? You can adjust the maps to nerf parkour then

[hazy tulip]

Remove double jump Gang

[autumn flare]

Ye make DaD great again xd

[lone crescent]

Double jump given to only one character is dumb, in every game the one double jumping character is either OP or almost useless for nerf to compensate double jump

[soft finch]

Some of these suggestions are really bad, but there's a few good gems

[ebon idol]

I feel like focusing on the rogue and give him more mobility is not going to solve what was weak with the rogue. Rogue already was the most mobile class.

[autumn flare]

Last time i played ruins there was my party (wizard, bard and fighter) and all other players in lobby were rogues, running to the center of map and climbing somewhere high to camp for the rest of run. We killed like 6 of them but still it was just cringe af.

[ebon idol]

He is dependend on being able to ambush people. But when I said "getting the jump on them" I didn't mean it literally.

[trim maple]

Honestly Double Jump is fun and interesting tho and fits the playstyle of Rogue very well. It needs some sort of drawback but other than that it feels fine.

[hazy tulip]

Give the ranger an Assault Rifle Crossbow and im sure they will have fun with it.

[lone crescent]

The game is so dark thet you can ambush people everywhere and rogue is so fast that you can't react to the first hit, usually they can even land 2 hits before the fight even starts

Give 2h weapons no movement speed penalty cause it's fun and it fits cause barbarian is strong

[ionic anchor]

if you changed agility to dexterity, and made the stat boost dmg and speed rather than just speed. it would balance a lot out. they still fold like paper but at least then they wont hit like wet noodles.

[autumn flare]

Rogue already has more good and playable perks than other classes. Without double jump he was ok in PT4, maybe weak at basic gear but scaling pretty well with gear. could have just some of abilities a little bit improved or the basic gear, but double jump should be removed.

[hazy tulip]

just having the hand crossbow made him alot stronger, woulda been fine with just that imo. dont forget they buffed rapier too. purple rapiers gained like 7 dmg.

[autumn flare]

Yes

[ebon idol]

The problem I have with double jump is that the intention behind it, while fun, is rigged from the start. Double jump is by design in it so the rogue can reach places other classes can't. Which is fun in theory. But then you realise that this means that rogues can access places that other classes can't. Which makes the rogue the only class that can consistently counter a rogue without having to bring a ranged option. You can't force a rogue in ruins to fight. It doesn't work. They will just jump away. You can not corner them, they have the lateral movement.

Contrary to that, invisibility doesn't access any places other classes can't go. If you know where the rogue is, you can attack them, corner them and force a fight. But with the double jump, they get a free out.

Unless the map is crypts, where no rogue is taking double jump unless they want to cheese hell enemies by parkouring their way through hell.

[hazy tulip]

nah in crypt they can do the same in like 40% of the rooms. which is where they will be staying.

[ionic anchor]

people take double jump in crypts, double jump with rapier gives them much safer poke

[lone crescent]

They did take double jump cause is a free dodge in fights

[ebon idol]

I haven't seen that, but yeah, makes sense. So yes, in theory it is fun. But it gives rogues a mobility they didn't need to have, give them advantages over other classes to dodge which should have been the backflip ability really (poke and backflip out), makes it near impossible to hit their head, and allows them to cheese all kinds of PvE.

[ionic anchor]

the backflip felt like a meme

[lone crescent]

The equivalent of OPness for other class would be a lunge forward for barbarian to hit far away enemies, or an instant teleport for wizard, or a slide for ranger to avoid hits and put distance

Rogue have more mobility? Ok sure, then why other classes doesn't need?

[ionic anchor]

i dont understand how axe skeletons were able to swing with a lunge. that should honestly be a player swing option.

[lone crescent]

That's the whole reason why double jump is unfair

[ebon idol]

I really think the double jump was overkill buff wise. Giving them a dodge that feels less like a meme and the addition of a ranged weapon like the one handed cross bow was enough to give them much needed range and a little bit of mobility/mind games.

As a rogue, you should lose a 1v1 against other melee classes, unless you get the jump on them. I don't think it gives any good advantage to the class feelings if "hide" is mainly used as a way to get 50% attack damage on the first hit when entering a battle.

[lone crescent]

Since when range was needed on rogue?

[ebon idol]

I think the hand crossbow was a nice addition to the rogues kit. I think they needed some range.

[lone crescent]

Yes but right now a rogue with crossbow is stronger then a ranger

[ebon idol]

That is what should not be the case. Which is why I think that is a mistake.

[lone crescent]

A headshot with a green crossbow with no modifiers on gear deals 40 damage + rupture and weakpoint is a oneshot

[abstract swallow]

For his teamfighting ability, mostly. It's why people wanted him to have survival bow.

[ebon idol]

Using ambush + weakpoint + gaps to oneshot people should not be what is going on. But giving him some options in team fights is nice.

Especially why are all of the abilities of a rogue working on both daggers and crossbows when even ranger has differences which abilities work with crossbows and bows.

[lone crescent]

The only teamfight thing a rogue should have is flank and apply poison, he can't have it all

Rupture for example should work only for daggers for me, not even on rapier

You play rapier you swap skill, that's how other classes works

[ebon idol]

Eh, idk, giving them some poke is nice. With ammo added I don't see a problem. But atm the damage is too great.

[abstract swallow]

Keep in mind, people were asking this when Crypts was all we had. Rogue was not fun to play after he lost the easy oneshot build, and every fight was an empty room or the world's most ubiquitous door choke points.

[lone crescent]

It is op even in crypt

[ionic anchor]

in order to make that true, you have to buff your shot with both buffs forgo hide and ambush and hit your target with both your buffs. its stronger if you add all those factors but in general ranger can outdamage a rogue consistantly in a ranged fight. not only that but you're implying that the rogue has endgame loot, which would imply on equal grounds an enemy with equal loot will do less damage. but a ranger will absolutely put out more damage with a green+ longbow.

[trim maple]

Honestly it would be neat if Double Jump did self-damage every time you used it a la the pre-buff Atomizer from TF2

[abstract swallow]

It is, it needs a nerf to reload speed and speed while reloading, and it probably shouldn't apply all of his debuffs (give throwing knives back poison though)

[lone crescent]

I'm implying a naked rogue with a green crossbow not endgame loot

[ionic anchor]

have you seen a hand crossbow higher than green quality? i have not.

[lone crescent]

I suggest to just make throwing knives faster and remove crossbow from his kit

[ionic anchor]

and the equivalent to a green crossbow for a ranger would be a green longbow. which has higher base damage

[lone crescent]

Yes but then rogue moves fast and keeps distance and if you push him he's strong in melee while ranger is not

[ionic anchor]

you can use a hand crossbow and a rapier as a ranger and a longbow. plus you have rations and triple shot.

[lone crescent]

He excels both in melee and ranged right now and that's wrong

[ionic anchor]

or even better you can use a spear which seems to do triple the damage of any weapon a rogue could use anyway

[hazy tulip]

spear does not do more than rogue weapons. You gotta acount for dps not just one hit

[lone crescent]

Yes you can use a spear with a perk while a rogue can use a crossbow for free

[ionic anchor]

a spear can do more than 50% of your health before a dagger or even rapier can reach you.

[lone crescent]

Ranger equip spear
Rogue keeps distance and poke with crossbow
Spear irrelevant

[abstract swallow]

Spear is great, and if you're competent you can put out enough damage to drop anyone less resilient than a buffed cleric in just the opener.
But Ranger crumples in one good hit, just like Rogue does, and he's much easier to hit with Spear than Rogue even if he wears his HandBow and Rapier in the same slot.

[hazy tulip]

except, ur wrong, and if they do pull out a spear then just crossbow

[lone crescent]

There is no way you can force a rogue to fight you

[ionic anchor]

no ur wrong? what is this arguement

[hazy tulip]

argument is if a ranger with spear and a rogue run straight at eachother. Rogue can pretty much get 2 hits in for every one the ranger does with spear, the rogue still wins. assumin all hits land. And besides a rogue would never have to go meelee anyway if they prefer not too

[pure echo]

Make a DUO mode plz! ❤️

[hazy tulip]

Not against it but its the same with goblin caves, it will never be balanced since the balancing is based around 3 man

[ionic anchor]

https://darkanddarker.wiki.spellsandguns.com/Weapons so you're telling me, a white rapier and a white spear go toe to toe. and a rapier kills an archer, faster than a ranger kills a rogue?

[hazy tulip]

Yep. rapier around 60% of spear dmg, hits twice as fast, rogue also has ambush, poisoned weapon , weakpoint (50% more on first hit and 50% armor reduction), and rupture (min 25 dmg). For sure wins

[ionic anchor]

LOL you just added all the abilities to the fight... thats not what your arguement was.

[hazy tulip]

Not to mention rogue is way harder to hit being faster and ranger being slower while holding spear

[ionic anchor]

if they go toe to toe... like standing right in front of eachother swinging. which one dies first.

you're literally adding a kit that doesnt exist to a rogue

[hazy tulip]

My argument was if a ranger and rogue go straight at each other for a fight, rogue wins.

[ionic anchor]

if they are running ambush and weak point and rupture, they are not running hide and proccing ambush... so you're just making shit up, you realize that right?

[split pike]

let me know what u think about a perk i thought about ---> #d-and-d-suggestions message
Necklaces have been so easily stackable last playtest

[hazy tulip]

seriously? I was just listing the different perks/ abilities rogue has to buff dmg, ofcourse they dont have 3 skills lmao.

[ionic anchor]

well whats the winning ticket then. cause you're just tossing out the whole kit. ranger has a shotgun blast that would 1 shot any rogue.

[hazy tulip]

btw if u dont know, spear has the lowest dps of all two handed weeapons

[tropic comet]

Well yeah that makes sense it’s long and easy to hit

[hazy tulip]

You were making the point that ranger just use spear to kill rogue and im debunking that argument

[ionic anchor]

its also got the highest attack speed and lowst move speed debuff

[hazy tulip]

this

[ionic anchor]

2 swings with a spear usually kills a rogue.

im not saying a ranger will win everytime. but they certainly don't lose everytime either.

[hazy tulip]

They will loose almost every time if the rogue is close. Thats my final point

[ionic anchor]

you make it like rogue will always win no matter what

[hazy tulip]

I mean the class is designed to kill squishy targets.

[ionic anchor]

if they are close, but you have to Get close for that win condition. and the spear exists to be able to poke you farther than you can hit it.

[trail forge]

That seems like the point for an extremely high dps class whose whole kit revolves around being the most mobile while having abilities to literally let you move while invisible lol

[hazy tulip]

Yes, but if a rangeer pulls out a spear, rogue pulls out a crossbow, if the ranger pulls out the bow again then rogues just goes in (ambush, double jump, just hard to hit close) and kills the ranger

[trail forge]

If a rogue just walks in a straight line at a ranger while in view they deserve to lose

[abstract swallow]

The whole purpose of spear on Ranger is for teamfighting and deterrence, not a DPS race.
You run it to force someone to take two heavy hits and a potential finisher if they approach or to lay into a target a teammate is hitting faster and more sustainably than you can with ranged weapons.
Using it to duel is asking to get one-tapped.

[trail forge]

The weapon selection is moot at that point

[trail forge]

This: even with a purple spear, going toe to toe with most other dps that manage to make it to the ranger is really dangerous

[ionic anchor]

then ranger just pulls out bow and shotguns the rogue? like what are these made up scenarios. its like youre action figure fighting in your head. these abilities don't always lead to victory. im saying it can be a 50/50. of course a rogue ambushing someone has an advantage.

[trail forge]

I think the issue is rogue shouldn't win 50/50 if it's just a toe to toe in a vacuum because if it is the rogue already is playing poorly

[hazy tulip]

Ranger is in lobby before that happens bro

[ionic anchor]

rogue should absolutely win 50/50 to another agility class. they actually don't even win vs most strength classes toe to toe at all. cleric barb and fighters usually win vs rogues.

[trail forge]

That means the rogue is bad or out geared. The math has been done and the starting rogue kit can achieve over 70 dps

[hazy tulip]

Barb cant even hit a rogue unless they are using a horsemans axe or normal axe, other weapons are too slow if the rogue plays corecctly. Same with cleric unless u get killed by mika

[ionic anchor]

can acheive under the right circumstantces with the correct 4 perks and perfect scenario, aka ambushing some dude from behind.

[trail forge]

In otherwords: playing correctly

[hazy tulip]

Thats how it should be, bur right now its not, rogue just dances infront of everyones faces

[ionic anchor]

sure, but if you honestly think a rogue can engage every encounter perfectly, then you are high.

[hazy tulip]

I dont and i never said that. But rogues has the option to disengage any fight.

[trail forge]

It's literally the easiest class to decide whether or not you take a fight. If you choose a fight you can't take that isn't the class being under tuned lol

[ionic anchor]

well obviously, if you werent given the option to flee as a rogue, you'd die all the time. aka playtest 4. Just remove DJ kinda weird to even add that imo.

[hazy tulip]

I agree

[dim widget]

when game coming out again

[glacial sphinx]

people really exaggerate how bad rogue was in PT4, like it was pretty much completely fine

[abstract swallow]

Rogue just had more limited choice of engagement in PT4, since it was a very team oriented meta
You either had to play terrain incredibly well or exploit disadvantage

[ionic anchor]

all i wanted from pt4 was access to a survival bow so i could kill skeleton archers.

[hazy tulip]

Rapier was underwhelming though, imo if they remove dj or nerf it all is good

[abstract swallow]

Rapier is cracked but it really needs Buckler to shine tbh
The fact that nobody gets both is a travesty

[hazy tulip]

why does it need buckler? thought it sucked

[glacial sphinx]

rapier is S tier, it has speed range and decent damage

[trail forge]

This. Rogue was completely serviceable in pt4. Almost every balance complaint boiled down to people not grasping how out of control gear scaling was.

Literally watched a rogue 3-4 tap a cleric with a torch.

[abstract swallow]

Now that rapier got buffed AND the reset is consistent, it is finally good
Rapier reset is ABSURDLY strong with any amount of damage stacking

[hazy tulip]

what is rapier reset?

[abstract swallow]

You can buffer Rapier-1 into itself

[hazy tulip]

I dont get it

[gaunt cargo]

he means you can reset the attack chain to use the first attack animation much faster

[hazy tulip]

ah

[abstract swallow]

👍

[ionic anchor]

i wonder if dps meters exist in any capacity internally. cause like as it stands. we don't really know if certain swing techs are better or worse than others by any measurement except MAYBE first hand and MAYBE target dummy. and that gives us a rough estimate more than a solid number.

[gaunt cargo]

what? the wiki has the damage multipliers for attack sequences

[ionic anchor]

oh thats what that means

well then spear really outdpses rapier lmao

so poking with your rapier 1 attack is actually worse dps because that attack does less damage then every proceeding attack

and stiletto is 140% on last strike!? jesus... plus 15% combo finisher

[hazy tulip]

i just did the math. rogue with rupture and ambush/weakpoint will deal 90 dmg with white rapier in 3 hits, white spear will deal 80 dmg with 2 hits. If anything they both kill each other.

[ionic anchor]

are you counting ambush/weakpoint as an either or? cause both do 50%

i definately feel like they'd more than likely kill each other, but the rogue isnt getting out of it with more than 10 hp.

whats rogue starting hp like 82 maybe?

[hazy tulip]

yes, either or on the first hit

[hazy tulip]

pretyy sure rogue and ranger have the same hp at 80 or smthing

[ionic anchor]

84 hp for rogue and ranger has 90.

yeah i mean that feels about right 50/50 but with handbow obviously and with longbow like 1 headshot from either player is almost certain death too.

idk how much a hand bow does headshot with rupture and weak point but it would obviously hurt.

but like prior to the handbow, as a ranger you just got the rogue shitting himself at a distance with no counterplay. so

[hazy tulip]

their full combo is roughly the same speed. where white rapier will heav dealt 115 dmg and spear 126. Although it depends on what perks the rougue is using since bleed dmg would deal more dmg, annd their armor reducing perks will have an affect as well.

[ionic anchor]

most rogues run poison, not all rogues run that 15% thrust

[hazy tulip]

yeah. I did the math for purple spear (162 dmg full combo) and purple rapier (179 full combo) Thats with rupture and 50 dmg increase on first hit

[ionic anchor]

well even with gear you're not getting much higher than 100 hp as either class. so its a matter of who can do it faster

also, apparently spear proficiency does this "Spear can be used. When attacking with a spear, gain 10 physical strength." so,,,

now you have to factor in that 10 strength shrug

[hazy tulip]

in 1.25 seconds the rogue can deal 106.6 dmg with 50% on first hit and rupture with purple rapier. Purple spear will deal 103 dmg in 1.65 seconds.

[hazy tulip]

true. but rogue also has higher agility (i think?) so swings even faster. Also spear will likel hit first. anyway anything can happen.

[ionic anchor]

with miliseconds of difference and range factored no hand crossbow, the ranger wins, if ranger misses first hit rogue wins. if rogue misses or wastes weakpoint or ambush ranger wins.

[hazy tulip]

Yes, but this is purely in a run at each other scenario. so i supposed all this doesnt really mean anything.

[ionic anchor]

well it happens more than you'd think.

both classes played perfectly probably also ends in somewhat of a draw. assuming 1 headshot kills either player.

[hazy tulip]

I mean at long distance rogue has to flee, close distance its heavily favored for rogue imo

[ionic anchor]

it should be but you can always have a rock/paper/scissors in play. like running shotgun bow.

i want rogue balanced but i just don't like the narrative that they are too strong, it doesn't feel correct. DJ is the only thing making them a bit overtuned. and hand crossbow... idk... i like using it but i can see the point. i just think even if u took it away, they need something.

[hazy tulip]

Bro halberd and spear have the same dps, this is life changing.

And falcion has higher dps than both of them. Im looking at purples btw.

ARMING SWROD HAS 1 LESS DPS THAN HALBERD. Purple arming sword is 61 dps, purple falcion is 64 and purple halberd/spear is 62.

[ionic anchor]

reach/hitbox is pretty significant right?

[hazy tulip]

Yeah i suppose. but still

[ionic anchor]

i mean absolutely weird but like reach can cause so much difference.

i usually go falchion on bard xD

i think its weird that the castillion dagger doesnt show 3rd hit combo damage

by these stats alone you'd think everyone would want a double axe. but most barbs i know prefer felling or battle.

[hazy tulip]

felling axe has the highest dps tho, but the battleaxe is just a worse version of the double axe in almost every way.

btw does the 5 dmg buff on axes apply after or before dmg aplifiers?

[ionic anchor]

if u look at hand crossbow stats vs survival bow stats. me personally i was like why not give rogue a survival bow, i mean look at that. its terrible.

i think your stat just goes up if u have the axe out. so probably before

[hazy tulip]

i mean with +dmg stats the survival bow would be a lot more dangereous with that faster fighering rate.

[ionic anchor]

but you wouldnt have as much of a threatening weakpoint and rupture 1 shot potential.

you'd need a unique to get there.

[hazy tulip]

Depends on whether you cann apply them to bow or not.

[ionic anchor]

i mean im sure you would, but also you do have to actually hit. so thats always something to consider.

[hazy tulip]

hard to tell which would be better or worse unless they try it out in game.

[ionic anchor]

i mean if we circle back to our earlier discussion, if you had to fight a rogue as a ranger, spear/longbow vs hand crossbow rapier, or survival bow rapier, which would you rather deal with.

[hazy tulip]

true, i do imagine survial bow being slightly worse since the crossbow shoots instantly. Not completelty sure though unleess i could encounter it myself.

[gaunt cargo]

If they put survival bow on rogue and allowed poison + rupture on it, I'd definitely run +magic damage and will rogue to spam poison shots on people.

[hazy tulip]

Have to hit that first shot tho, so in that case crossbow is still better. I guess if u hit multiple shot for poison tho its better maybe

btw stilletto has 67 dps not including any skills perks. If u include rupture, bleed and 50% extra on first hit its almost 100dps

[gaunt cargo]

Nah, it would be the shot speed that makes surv bow good on rogue. With enough will and magic damage, each hit will apply 12 to 15 extra damage in poison, which is magic damage and shreds armored players.

[ionic anchor]

less than rapier? whack

[lone crescent]

@plucky saffron or maybe in the future it will have sense when they will add more stuff, maybe wizard/cleric/bard could be viable without spell memory in the future

For people that says rogue is fine watch the clip at 2:18 and tell how this is fair
https://youtu.be/rQHV0poaew4

[signal rain]

61 damage arming sword. You gotta send me a pic or I’m calling you a liar. I’ve played every playtest and I’ve seen arming swords in the 40s never 50s and your saying 60s

[latent tundra]

@hazy tulip you have youtube hr content right?

[hazy tulip]

yeah

[lone crescent]

Purple arming sword have 37 max according to wiki

[latent tundra]

I was peepin the cinder dom

[lone crescent]

If you talk about dps it can be true

[latent tundra]

@hazy tulip what was ur pdr on the fighter with cinder?

[signal rain]

If dps then that’s fine seems like the weps are balanced then

[ionic anchor]

everyone agree's with you. ruins+DJ+ hand crossbow is undoubtably broken, if they don't patch it then i don't know what to say.

[lone crescent]

0.6 average attack speed (it can be a few more or a few less) so yes around 60 dps

[hazy tulip]

purple arming sword with 37 dmg. Combo: 100%/105%/110%. Attack speed 0.6s/0.56s/0.75s dps comes out to 61

[latent tundra]

another thing u have to consider with weapons is the part of the weapon ur hitting with, some weapons become way shittier when someone is in your face

[signal rain]

Didn’t realize you were talking dps I thought you meant you found a arming sword that said 61 dmg on the stats. Cause that woulda been insane

[hazy tulip]

not sure, really high. it was atleast 70% pdr without equipiing shield. My cleric actually had more than me at one point cus he spent an hour in the trade chat only looking for damage reduction equipment.

[latent tundra]

ya my cleric had 85%, rangers literally healed him

[lone crescent]

This is without considering agility or any other modifiers

[latent tundra]

I think the -3 damage on cleric applies after dam reduction too

[lone crescent]

Ah right those number are the combo hits

Then yes is ~60 dps

[hazy tulip]

He almost got killedi n 4 hits by a rogues with barely greens on him tho. prob had the damage reduction penetration perks n shit

[latent tundra]

ya that armor pen is cringe

he wasnt rocking the 50% ailment reduction for a while tho for some reason

[abstract swallow]

Arming Sword isn't a bad weapon, it's very easy to use and scales effectively with everything Fighter actually wants and what little he gets.
Ideally, most weapons should be as good as it.

[latent tundra]

falchion with a shield felt the best to me

[hazy tulip]

i prefer it over falcion cus its eeasier to headshot and u dont need to worry about hitting walls.

[abstract swallow]

Falchion is a more specialized weapon in a game where a single specialization (damage stacking) is king.

[latent tundra]

the faster riposte after block feels juicy

[abstract swallow]

Shield Master definitely took Longsword from 'bad but fun'' to 'king of average joes'

[hazy tulip]

For falcion its either headshot or arm shot. So if u dont get theem headshots you will suffer

[abstract swallow]

Falchion suffers from the same thing Riposte LS does: high theoretical damage, issues in actual application.
At least Falchion has good reach for almost the whole wide swing.

[latent tundra]

ya the swing matters a lot on these weps

[abstract swallow]

I have to say that I'm glad the community is finally turning on the Skill-and-Perk system now that people actually play spellcasters outside of being buffbots.

[hazy tulip]

wdym

[abstract swallow]

The system is restrictive and not designed with any of the classes in mind.

[hazy tulip]

Sorry im a bit slow. Can you expand please. I mean arent perks supposed to be restrictive to make unique classes?

[glacial zephyr]

Those crossbows are rare as hell tho, also -25 movespeed

[lone crescent]

I said it already, you can't balance things based on how rare they are to find

[abstract swallow]

The system of four perks and two skills does not allow for the design or fantasy of classes to be adequately expressed.
Class-defining features are underutilized and alternate play styles are forced to compete both for build space and effectiveness with perks that reinforce meta-relevant aspects (read: damage).
Meanwhile, core class functions take up most if not all of a class's skill budget, allowing very little variety in builds. Many classes have near 100% use rates for certain Skills because their class simply doesn't function without it: Rage, Spellcasting, Meditation, Sprint-- it is a very limited system that is almost impossible to escape the scope of without severely handicapping yourself.
( @hazy tulip )

[glacial zephyr]

I mean its just curious ghat such an interesting piece is so rare. They're not even that good unless you abuse double jump

[hazy tulip]

Yeah this is true. as a fighter i want to use adrenaline rush but its just worse. Its not bad but cant justify myself to use it instead of sprint + second wind.

[lone crescent]

There are wizards who play without meditation for the others ye you are right, but i guess we need to wait skill trees for variety

[glacial zephyr]

Yeah, like taking lockpick or pickpocketing on a rogue is a meme, you're better off shanking people and thats sad

[lone crescent]

It is, the fastest class that can outrun everyone and applies rupture from distance, you run and wait cooldown, 2 hits and you kill most players

[glacial zephyr]

Only one ability and one perk may change really

[lone crescent]

And rogue can outrun every other classes even without double jump, I don't think ranged damage is suited for the class

[hazy tulip]

wizard prob faster, but they open close e doors slower

[glacial zephyr]

Fighters have sprint/shield, barbs have achiless strike throwing axe/999999999 base hp, cleric selfheals and has a shield so he doesnt care, ranger and wiz are ranged

[lone crescent]

Let's say you remove double jump, a rogue can still shoot you 3-4 times before you can even get close enough to fight him

[abstract swallow]

Really all we can hope for is that we get a skill tree of passives and actives to invest in. Slotting perks is just asking for limited, highly specialized metas to dominate every class since there's no form of progression or requirement/opportunity cost, just limited and exclusive pools with dominant options.

[glacial zephyr]

If you dont move maybe

[hazy tulip]

But with a skill tree wont it be the same? ppl just invest into meta perks and skills?

[lone crescent]

Fighter with sprint is still slower then a rogue and shield can't block any hit

With crossbow and rupture he is just a stronger ranger and when you get close he can still fk you up in melee

[glacial zephyr]

Skill tree may enable different specializations

[glacial zephyr]

Thats just wrong. Ranger can oneshot people, has a spear, free sustain etc., how is 20 dmg plink makes rogue better is beyond my understanding

[hazy tulip]

Like tank or brawler? But wouldnt there still be meta withing the specializations? Im sure its gonna give more variety which is fun but not variety within the specializations

[ionic anchor]

cause this man thinks a rogue on ruins DJing around on walls and rupturing people from that shadows like batman is the equivalent to crypts gameplay where that nonsense doesn't happen.

[lone crescent]

Rogue can deal 40 damage + rupture and weakpoint with a hit without any modifiers and he's fast

[rough gorge]

Myself I am hoping for the skill trees to act like D&D Subclasses in their effect

[glacial zephyr]

Like ranger maybe could lean his build towards melee, ranged, escape-focused pve dude etc

[lone crescent]

It may not happen, but you are half hp before reaching a rogue

Is a combination of different factors, movement speed, rupture proc and double jump

[glacial zephyr]

So you have no bandages, no potions, you get jumped on etc. And what would happen to you if a rogue opens on you in the same context with ambush+weakpoint and just a green dagger instead of a crossbow?

Hint: you die too, but like 20 times faster

[wary junco]

Dammit did a mistake in my suggestion can i somehow correct it?

[glacial zephyr]

And double jump is cancer and must be removed btw

[hazy tulip]

nope. i posted an empty suggestion by mistake earlier xd

[glacial zephyr]

Turned such a beautiful map into Konoha of shlt

[wary junco]

Yeah i simply made a mistake on the 3rd song

[rough gorge]

if people have decent reading comprehension they should know what you mean

[wary junco]

"Enemys will be effected 2 seconds longer then allys."

[ionic anchor]

i told someone who doesn't even play the game they gave rogues double jump. and they simply stated "why"

[wary junco]

Without beeing arrogant in someway or something i realy do believe that my suggestion would be a very good implementation.... give bard some love and a high skill ceiling

[rough gorge]

most are gonna ask why so they can understand the context, its usually the first question i ask if not ill ask how.

[hazy tulip]

Trust me, bard needs more than just that. But its a decent suggestion. Atm i dont even thinnk of bard as a class, its so redundant

[ionic anchor]

it was more of a rhetorical why, like that is a really bad idea why would they do that.

[wary junco]

True, thats why i thought you could replace encore with my ability suggestion

I specificly like "Aim at your enemy" trait

Would be kinda funny to pull a giant room and kill 1 poor player with a champion 2 black skellis and crossbow archers xD

[ionic anchor]

not sure if it was intentional but bards chaos didnt affect elites... kinda sucked

[wary junco]

Well that is on purpose

Elites dont get effected by cc effects. I dont understand why ppl would downvote my idea bard needs so much more love

[regal lotus]

I think infinite healing spells on a 30 s cd might be a bit strong but I like the idea overall, also for peacefulness you wrote enemies twice

[rough gorge]

not really mobs take their time getting to people and still have to stop motion to do their attacks within the 6sec allotment of during the song before the turn back to you so you have to play again

[wary junco]

Yeah that was a mistake iam aware of it. Well it has a 30s cooldown so you cant outperform a cleric

Keep in mind that this ability would rarely be used to heal your people since it has a very high cooldown and its combat effects can be insane

It would only be used to heal if the bard is 100% Sure that in the next 30s there will be no fight

You could basicly see the heal aspect of it as a very bad campfire you dont need to sit down for

[regal lotus]

Yea maybe its not so OP on further thought, The 2s of free allied barb attacking during peacefulness might be broken tho

[wary junco]

I'd say no, considering that the Team of yours have to be fully aware of it to actualy abuse it

2s is only usuable for an advantage if it very well timed by your teammates

If i would have said 3 or 4 s i would agree but 2 should be ok maybe 2,5

[weak vine]

Yo can anyone tell me what they think of the suggestion I put in, I don’t agree or disagree with it I just wanna see what people think

[tulip venture]

im not a fan i think starting from zero with nothing to lose gives the starting deaths a chance to be learning experiences without any punishment-like if they start with gold and die people might feel defeated and discouraged more so than now

[weak vine]

That’s true I just feel bad cause ima cleric so any damage I take I can heal but if ur not cleric or ranger and ur fresh u have 0 heals and are screwed even if u take a lil damage or I guess fighter as well but that’s a 1 use ability

[tulip venture]

yeah it can be rough but if you play with a team most times there are chances for at least 1 person on the team to make it out

[weak vine]

That’s true I always go solo goblin mines for like my first 10 levels but I play cleric so 0 gold is never an issue for me

[tulip venture]

i think you should try fighter man its not as forgiving early game but it fights so much better

[weak vine]

Cleric was mad op last playtest I easily went on a 25+ streak and only lost to a glitch where it said I was still in raid

I’m not new to the game and I don’t even believe in the starting with gold idea I just like to start discussions about some ideas I’ve seen but if it was up to me I’d have it stay with 0 gold start

[tulip venture]

how do you feel about how many maps they add because i think they should keep the number low just to make sure the lobbys are always full

[weak vine]

I think they should keep it somewhat separate but not too much like goblin mines obviously separate and same with high roller and then for other regular maps make it a random map in the same pool so you don’t get to choose always it’s just random

[tulip venture]

i know i would hate not choosing my map

[weak vine]

If they made it all separate and you could choose, one map would probably have better loot then the other and everyone would only play that making the other maps pointless

I mean maps are already randomized and it works perfectly fine to me

[tulip venture]

maybe but they can balance it and when they add more content there will probably be things you can only do on certain maps like mine a particular ore or like 1 map has a guaranteed golden key and another map has the key room

[weak vine]

Guarantee gold key sounds like a bad idea tbh they should keep them rare

[tulip venture]

fair but they were only going for 300-500 gold so a single one on the map wouldnt really hurt much especially if it was locked behind a boss or something

[weak vine]

I got my first gold key this playtest and I didn’t know you had to use it in hr to get the gold pile so I used it on a regular map and it was just a lions head chest 💀

[tulip venture]

i am so sorry that blows

[weak vine]

U seem pretty cool tho jake if u wanna play next playtest shoot me a message I’ll invite u to my discord we got a decent amount of active players in there

Not next playtest just whenever alpha comes out *

[tulip venture]

sure ill join

[weak vine]

Aight I’ll send u an invite

[abstract swallow]

I'm between board games, so I'll respond to this:
A meta will always be present, but if there are progressions and opportunity costs to choices those can be compromised, leading to more variety.
If an option is good, but has a significant cost or requires a certain amount of partially or entirely exclusive investment to reach then that good option can be foregone in exchange for having more varied or alternative options.
At that point it becomes a matter of budget and option balance, rather than the expression being solely limited to using the best available options in limited slots.

[latent tundra]

having more options just makes a knowledge gap

which is good, you want there to be a lot of choices and only certain ones are good

[vocal lodge]

i dont know but all the suggestion im reading are shit. and still receiving upvotes. people are upvoting to have quivers to have tripple jump to have backpacks. they downvoting to add weight to the game that is common on every rpg game or fall damage. i mean this kids want everything easy. i hope the game stay hardcore and no i dont want glowing items and things like that. they should close the suggestion channel they were going to right way

[gray crater]

Yea us hardcore players want to die to fall damage

[autumn flare]

Then you haven't seen suggestions about new, more skilled weapons ideas. About making the game non P2W in the future and upgrading interface (one button to sell all treasures to collector)

Why so salty bro? If you don't like some suggestions you can downvote them or just don't look at them. I don't think that if the dev of the game look at suggestion with 40 votes he instantly implements it to the game. It's more like if something got enough votes they can see it. Also there will always be someone who doesn't want some changes idea so the game would stay as it is for many and saying that some of the suggestions are shit is only your opinion not a fact bro.

[quick blade]

The suggestions are spammed by trolls to drown out honest suggestions. And persuade people not to leave suggestions. Then a small group of people can suggest bad ideas and just upvote them with bots.

[abstract swallow]

Suggestions are seen by the devs, but for the most part it's just a discussion tool.

[trim maple]

Realistically I feel like they only look at the ones that get upvoted tho

[smoky yoke]

@cloud marlin we will try to see about your discord suggestion

[cloud marlin]

Oh... that was unexpected, considering likes/dislikes ratio, but thanks a lot

[regal lotus]

Question : Why do people not like this suggestion?
#d-and-d-suggestions message

[rough gorge]

because it is not that hard to learn the fundamentals to this game, or learn patterns. its not all that hard to get geared at a low lvl plus its not like were gonna know what perk they are using till they do a action or an effect hurts us for more, and oh no they have access to more perks than me neat they still die the same to a goblin all the way to a floor trap. Gotta use that noggin anyway even if you knew they had the same amount of perks are you gonna be any braver on your actions I dont think so. I would know im a pretty big coward.

[ebon idol]

Multiple reasons, but the main part boils down to: Newer players should suffer.

And I mean in a healthy way. Getting beaten up helps you learn the game, and especially helps setting expectations.

[regal lotus]

That's fair. I personally don't have a problem w some rough first rounds learning the game.

But, its a common complaint about the game being hard to learn for newcomers and them demanding matchmaking and the like which is unwanted.

I think another issue in a full release is it being hard to get started mid/late wipe because you are against very geared lobbies.
This could discourage newcomers from joining the game.

It seems relatively harmless for there to be a low level noob queue for ppl to learn the game.

Like if ppl are going to demand matchmaking or something to satisfy new players, this is about the only type of "segmentation" I would find acceptable.

[cloud marlin]

That's right, people learn more looking for experienced players doing cool stuff or just tactics in game

[regal lotus]

I mean your first 5 levels are probably just you dying to PvE never mind PvP

[ebon idol]

Gear is always in fluctuation. As long as gear hoarding is controlled, getting new gear is always gonna be a thing.

So you will have a lot of people with really good gear and with somewhat okish gear and some people just going economy and trying to grab gold in greys.

[cloud marlin]

Btw on long term it might be a good idea, cause now there are people with almost no loot, even experienced ones, but after like month of game there are gonna be a lot of full armed parties really ruining experience of new game for the newbies

[regal lotus]

To some extent sure, but Id say a month into a reset ppl are likely mostly geared in most lobbies

[rough gorge]

I can understand that but to be fair if your coming in by yourself mid season you should be already aware what your getting into, now if you are coming in with a friend and one is not new they I would hopefully see that they would warn them. and hopefully they will have a training lobby thing instead so you can practice spacing at least with dummies

[cloud marlin]

Ye, actually good made training lobby with some tips might kinda fix this problem

[regal lotus]

"you should be expecting to get destroyed" is a bit of a cop out I think. You dont want to push new ppl away from the game.

[ebon idol]

I mean, not push them away. But you want to set realistic expectations.

[regal lotus]

Training lobby is effectively the same as what is being suggested IMO.

[ebon idol]

If you are not frustration resistant this game isn't for you. Nothing bad in showing color early on.

[regal lotus]

I think you will get plenty "frustrated" by the PvE and not knowing what to do, regardless of what PvP level is going on in your lobbby.
I dont think a noob level queue is going to "set bad expectations"

[rough gorge]

Be like me become 🐀

[ebon idol]

Entirely possible I am having a bad take here. Idk, I didn't drink from the well of game knowledge.

[glacial sphinx]

for sure its going to be rougher to start halfway into a season when average gear lvl is higher and others have their perks already. You might get some random gear off dead people a bit easier as well I guess but yeah they could consider it

honestly dont know if it would even matter much, most first time players will die to pve before ever seeing a player the first 2 games or so

[regal lotus]

Agreed, it just calms down all the people crying about gear imbalance and demanding gear or level based matchmaking and the like.

To me, its just a good solution that appeases ppl who complain about these things without actually doing too much.

[glacial sphinx]

think power from gear overall just needs to be in a decent spot where no one becomes too safe from death with sufficient gear. But I think its also good for people to just get used to the fact that dying is common and you shouldn't expect to get out every run

[ebon idol]

No, those people won't be happy.

[regal lotus]

Probably true

[floral oasis]

Personally i find this game not nearly as half bad as League of Legends and other competitive games in the frustation department, mostly cause if the match is going bad for you it will end in less than 10 minutes... In those games you can spend up to a hour and still lose

[rough gorge]

Honestly yeah its the time from death/ extraction to back in a game is what keeps me from getting too mad

[floral oasis]

Yeah, losing good stuff is sad and all but you're in the next game so quickly that theres not much loss... Might become sadder with quests but i highly doubt it will be a issue
Abt the gear thingy, even in the last moments of playtest i saw most ppl in goblin caves going in with starter gear, sounds like the newbie/lowgear queue is goblin caves

[drifting perch]

loot'll be rarer in full release if it ever comes out, but the things you guys bring up + knowing (for the most part) what killed you really helps alleviate frustration. tarkov one taps from nowhere aren't really a thing in DaD except for maybe a super geared rogue leaving invisibility on top of you or a god crossbow shot

[regal lotus]

Goblin cave is a newbie place on these short play tests.

But later in a wipe more gear will be there.

Ppl alrdy complain about geared ppl destroying them in the caves.

We alrdy gate lv 5 and under from trade and lfg. So a low level queue seems like a decent solution to me

Also goblin caves is a bit of a free gold farm for geared players atm as most are naked in there

[floral oasis]

Feel like even if you get killed by godrogue/godbow theres still stuff to learn cause you can inspect their inventory and spectate, i got onetapped by a godrogue and watched him for a little bit, got out of that match kind of knowing how the strat works and started to be more cautious

[drifting perch]

true

[floral oasis]

Im not against it, but how would that work? Grey to green gear only or only starter gear?

[regal lotus]

Just lvl gate it. Gear gating has a slew of issues.

If it's green only ppl will smurf in perfect green rolled gear. This will also change price of green gear as it is used for stomping noobs

Level gate is neatly self contained and little reason for ppl to smurf it since Noone will have much loot in there

[drifting perch]

i think the situation with geared players in a "noob" area will always resolve itself. if the narrative becomes "watch out for goblin caves, super stacked players run around in there," then other super geared players will start coming to take them out, or opportunistic people with nothing will hunt them, and that leads you back to square one

[floral oasis]

Yeah im fine with that, would prefer to have lower level loot (edit woops) in that queue cause theres no restriction on creating characters/trading with newer chars so some ppl could try to abuse it, but its a good idea

[drifting perch]

the last thing i want is for a fun, unique experience like goblin caves to be removed in some way for experienced players

[regal lotus]

I mean I probably agree w alot of your pts that it's a non issue.

Except it's a very common complaint that it's unfair from new players.

If it makes less ppl quit after losing a few rounds it's worth

[drifting perch]

not sure diminishing the value of the game to keep a higher playerbase is always a net positive but i see your point

potentially* diminishing the value of the game

[regal lotus]

What do you mean by diminishing the value?

[drifting perch]

in my opinion your suggestions border on an experience that would devalue the game for me, would negatively impact my enjoyment

[regal lotus]

Can you explain why that would be? Like as a new player you would rather play against geared players because it feels more alive for the first few rounds?

[drifting perch]

i want to be able to run around in goblin caves with whatever loot i desire. i think it's fun, so taking that away from me to help the noobs is a net negative

[regal lotus]

To be clear, my suggestion would still alllow you to run around with whatever loot you desire. You just wouldnt play w < lv 5 players at lv 6

[drifting perch]

oh word i completely misunderstood, mb. yeah that's similar to hearthstone's arena mode for noobs, where your first few runs are automatically given like the lowest possible elo

[regal lotus]

Yea its pretty normal-ish thing to do in games

[drifting perch]

im trying to think back to the high geared players i died to. feels like you can get a blue set within like 5ish raids

[regal lotus]

Well you cant trade at < lv 5 currently. You wouldnt be able to queue w the < lv 5 either. so you shoulldnt be able to smurf.

Also if you did, youre just risking your good gear to farm nakeds.

[umbral valve]

Add high roller (ante up) to Goblin Caves. Vote!!!!!!!

[worldly crow]

Most of my deaths were to fellow broke people.

[weak vine]

High roller goblin caves is not a good idea

[trim maple]

@desert drift trading is already limited by not being as easy to use as an auctionhouse, and even then ppl having god kits isn't really that big an issue because you still have to pay for them

[desert drift]

What do you mean it's not easy to use? I only ever used it a few time but any time I did, I sold the items almost instantly. Paying for the items isnt hard either, considering how much treasure you can loot and sell quickly by playing it safe

Also, my main argument against it really is that it takes away the reason to go deeper and play the other part of the game. Why go deeper when you can just escape and buy the gear without further risk?

[hasty sedge]

honestly i disagree and actully think a marketplace similar to WOW and maybe a trading system between friends would be better then how it is now and tbh those that had access to op gear were already stacked af

[trim maple]

I dont know what word keeps getting my messages deleted but

Purple items = 600-800g with good rolls excluding quicksales

Average B3 run = 300-500g

[trim maple]

Also there's plenty to think about when pricing, negotiating, etc as well as the fact you aren't even guaranteed good gear unless you spend a significant amount of gold

[hasty sedge]

idk what kind of runs ur getting but 300-500g

[trim maple]

yea, even only picking sellables and gold you find on the ground can in fact get you 300+g if you go deeper in a run lol

depending on the rarity of them you can get 500+

[desert drift]

Going off of that, its only 2 runs and then you dont need to further risk it and buy gear

[trim maple]

no, its 2 runs and then you risk it even further by bringing an expensive item you could lose

[hasty sedge]

im just saying ur really lucky since 50% of the time when im going down i either have no hp to ai or get killed to players but yeah when getting good lootables you get alot of gold but getting out is another story

[trim maple]

that would take a lot of time to get back

[desert drift]

Idk, I never saw people go deeper. I tried going red almost every run and only ever saw one other group

people with blues/purples never want to go deeper from my experience

[hasty sedge]

I agree and for good reason and this together with the fact that often you dont even get to the second layer due to players makes it no good reason to nerf second layer

[desert drift]

Im not saying to nerf second layer

[hasty sedge]

i missunderstod just cuz i joined kind of at stupid time but its due to the mentalty of the playerbase and lack of medical items in my opinion and how slow the rest mecanic is

[desert drift]

yeah, i usually just buy meds

[hasty sedge]

Same but if your starting out you usally dont have the gold to buy extra meds and other players either are in the same spot as you with no meds and or are overloaded and kill all the other players that dont have any

[quick blade]

One of the reasons you don't see people going down is it takes 10 min to run a down portal and if one of your party is dead and waiting you just take a blue.

[abstract swallow]

The biggest reason people don't go down is because it's a huge knowledge check. Almost as big as starting the game blind.
Gargoyles and Demon Dogs will wipe most parties a dozen times over unless they safe spot.

[lucid root]

it do go down

[tulip venture]

i really think staffs should have a faster casting speed than a book or orb because of their movespeed penalty

[tropic comet]

And bonkability

[quick blade]

Manbats and Centaur basically have to be cheesed in order to fight. You used to be able to use sanctuary and have you melee teammates just face tank but since they made sanctuary almost useless by having it cancel the casting when you take damage that stopped.

It's also very much rng as to where you spawn and where the circle ends. Some spawns are just impossible like the time my rogue spawned behind some barrels. Could not leave the spawn box in downportal.

[hearty badge]

Level gating Goblins Cave

[quick blade]

What is wrong with people gifting gear in trade chat.

[hearty badge]

[ripe haven]

Offline mode when ?

[pale plinth]

How much does this game cost in $20 Americans?

[next hinge]

about 180 usd

[pale plinth]

But how much is that in $20 Americans

[quick blade]

Don't they call those Mexicans down at the homedepot

[abstract swallow]

It happens most often with streamers, naturally creating a warped perspective of the game for many potential players.
(Ignoring all RMT implications)

[proud tinsel]

wipe more often to kill RMT

[high thicket]

RMT sellers love wipes. It makes all the best items super rare, and thus people will pay more for them.

[proud tinsel]

to have em for 2 weeks?

[high thicket]

Yep. RMT buyers don't care, they just want to have the best stuff and lord it over all us normies

[abstract swallow]

Yes lmao, RMT used to be a thing during PoE's races

[proud tinsel]

That's stupid

[high thicket]

If RMT buyers were smart they wouldn't be wasting money buying items they'll lose in 10 minutes

[proud tinsel]

true story

[high thicket]

That being said, most RMT buyers have plenty of cash to burn, so they don't care

[abstract swallow]

Yeah, they're either not spending any meaningful amount of money or spending irresponsibly.

[proud tinsel]

Nah people with real money dont feel the need to show it off

[abstract swallow]

I see you have only played games that have China region locked.

[proud tinsel]

Could not tell ya tbh

[atomic cipher]

Sanctuary does not cancel upom taking damage. It cancels if you move

[proud tinsel]

Taking dmg def does not cancel it, Ash is right

[quick blade]

In pt5 when a mob damaged you it would cancel.

[somber wind]

Although simple and likely something that would be Tier 1 magic but, what do people think of the idea of Lithomancy for Wizard?

[proud tinsel]

nope 100% not true. Its a good way to clear all the bats in pyramid or a few groups of spiders

[atomic cipher]

Just use holy purification for that =p pew pew, easy xp/clears.

[somber wind]

Lithomancy is neutrally animating objects with a confused consciousness. In most media that has it, if you for example cast it on a Vase it will roll around aimlessly and do muffled screams.

[proud tinsel]

you can do that too sometimes taking judgement is nice though

[atomic cipher]

I found holy purification better for my group simply because it cleared mobs faster, making it harder for us to get 3rd partied by the mobs while i healed my team. I'd rather quickly clear the room and have somewhere for us to fall back to, instead of taking longer to clear the room and get thirded while we do so

[somber wind]

Lithomancy would easily be used to animate a bunch of crates and vases to get in the way of an enemy.

[abstract swallow]

Clearing PvE is a part of your ability to control the map and navigate to desirable locations quickly and effectively-- Judgement may be busted, but people that discount the undead nuke are ignoring a central pillar of gameplay.

[atomic cipher]

I will say, whenever we'd face tank a centaur, I'd pop a bubble and start channel sanctuary and pop it when our guy tanking the mob was at half health, and it worked pretty well.

[quick blade]

I streamed every match I have footage you are wrong, at the very least at some point in pt5 it worked like i said

[cobalt carbon]

The last thing Clerics need, are infinite spells. At least Resurrection and the heals, shouldn't recharge. It takes away all concern for managing healing.

[atomic cipher]

The recharge is perfectly fine i believe. It goes extremely slowly, and as a cleric, i usually brought 2 campfires. You'd be surprised how fast you can tear through your heals, and how useless you feel after. I'd like to see clarity potions available at alchemist if G doesn't recharge spells.

[cobalt carbon]

You go through a lot of spells then, lol. I often went through without losing all my spells at all. Campfires were a bonus, but I didn't go out with them all the time.

[proud tinsel]

1 3v3 should take all your heals if you're fairly well matched

[atomic cipher]

I played a lot of highrollers with a melee friendly team trying to push HR ranks for kills. I had to =p I'd give up G restoring if i had a reliable source of clarity potions tbh

[abstract swallow]

Campfires were very important if you took HR PvP. Resting off more than one or two spells would 100% get you pushed by another team without your cleric.

[high thicket]

When we have all three floors linked together you'll want that trickle recharge

[cobalt carbon]

Ah, see, I'm a casual pleb, didn't bother much with HR. Makes me curious how things will be balanced in the future.

[atomic cipher]

Hr is definitly a different beast when it comes to players. When your entire lobby is decked out in well itemized purples, every fight eats everything

[ancient briar]

Rouge should get buffed. He should be able to half tap everyone in a limb.

Triple jumps, more movement speed. Permanent invisibility.

Buff Rouge

[cobalt carbon]

Yeah, I played a bit of it, but didn't main it. In pretty much every game, I've had way more fun with the lower tier of gear and the balance found there, than the late game stuff. Things feel more and more broken, the better your gear gets.

[high thicket]

Even in non-HR fighting your way through at least two floors of mobs and players will likely exhaust your spells

[atomic cipher]

tbf, i yell at my team that i refuse to heal them in PvE unless they are blow half health, so they better have their own consumes, otherwise im stopping after every skeleton to heal XD

[cobalt carbon]

I mean, you'll almost definitely find some Clarities going through multiple floors. Or campfires.

[ancient briar]

They need to implement PvE dungeons. PvP is boring

[cobalt carbon]

Yeah, I do hope Clarities get changed in the future. They felt unfinished, which.. Makes sense lol. Nothing in the game is really finished yet.

Nerf Bard. Too powerful with that second row of songs.

[atomic cipher]

For HR bosses it was pretty common for me to use 2 clarities per kill, let alone in pvp fights where im chugging multiple ranges of clarities to make sure i have spells constantly

[cobalt carbon]

I could see Clarities taking the place of the G resting. Make them tick over a longer period of time. A purple clarity could last 2 minutes or something, and it could be scaled so that you would get back X amount of spells over that 2 minutes.

[atomic cipher]

ehhh, the short duration is fine, just need them to be purchasable

[ancient briar]

PvE dungeons is a way to go. I ain't trolling anyone. I wouldn't dare to do such terrible thing!!!

I think PvE dungeons without PvP is what really will bring this game to shine

[high thicket]

Could I interest you in a copy of Skyrim?

[ancient briar]

No

[high thicket]

Ok, because it sounded like what you wanted was modded Skyrim.

[ancient briar]

#d-and-d-suggestions message

[hearty badge]

@hard meadow I like your suggestion post for Bard passives/talents. Some of them could use better condensing, and I still believe Bard needs to be reworked entirely in certain aspects, but your post is great considering that D&D devs literally provided nothing for the class this patch. 👍

[short thunder]

what do u guys think about adding a flute or smthn to bard that has reduced move speed penalty and casts songs faster? And maybe a giga huge instrument that are slow to cast but do alot more

[ancient briar]

Good idea
Brilliant... Much better than the double jump

[hearty badge]

Too early to say.

Before they can even begin to start including new instruments, they need actual fundamentals for the class that work, like providing more than 5 passives to choose from.

[short thunder]

yes i reckon that will come by how many perks the other classes have

they probably rushed the shit out of bard for this recent playtest and it is noticable

[hearty badge]

It should have never been included imo - It drove down my opinion on whether or not the developers understand what they're doing with testing and implementation. If the purpose of the playtest was to accumulate data on what does and doesn't work, then Bard was a complete failure due to the fact nobody played it beyond a certain extent (especially when every other class was given 3-4x as many passive and skill options).

[high thicket]

It was probably partially done before they realized they needed a way for players to actually play due to Steam delisting the game.

[ancient briar]

I think bard needs to get better and more useful skills or spells with a cooldown and it'd be a good class.

[high thicket]

If they didn't have to waste time on that it probably would have been closer to ready

[atomic cipher]

Every class had less perks and spells to choose from. They have been flushed out in each playtest

[hearty badge]

It should be very clear that anyone who is a die hard fan of the concept and process of D&D, would have the understanding of IronMace's current predicament, and that it's okay to make delays. The game got a huge boost in popularity due to many popular streamers and youtubers showcasing the game, and it should be noted that many of these players will not be here to stay in the long run, given the trends of how the gaming industry works.

[hearty badge]

[rough gorge]

its going to, it was not near completion in the first place

[hasty vigil]

Suggested auction house. Probably suggested before but still. Go upvote unless you enjoy waiting forever in between rounds while your teammates and yourself play the trade channel minigame

[abstract swallow]

I do, and will.

[quick blade]

Trade chat is great don't be so lazy

[ancient briar]

It's better than it used to be but it still isn't it yet

[quick blade]

Trade chat is perfection! Burn this heretic!

[atomic cipher]

Id rather an actual bidden system. Say i post an item for 150g starting bid and other players can bid on it and a percentage of the total price goes to the game. Cap out number of slots you can place for bid to two and people will still use trade chat

[ancient briar]

Yes auction house but the problem with it is that riches will outbid you every time

I'd be okay with marketplace from Aion, tarkov, new world and so on so on.

Also seeing open stores like in Aion also would be a cool idea to see

[rough gorge]

I sold my stuff at a minor profit green and above with bad rolls 20g flat, decent rolls like +1 all or to a preferred stat was 35g highest i went was 50g that was with plate armor that rolled MR and +Will so profit margin was from 5-35 very small but i like giving deals

[ancient briar]

There's a lot of bad items on trade. Like one third is total garbage

[quick blade]

Use the filter yah lazy bum!

[ancient briar]

If they added a marketplace where if you put your item on sale you first pay the fee and then you either sell it or not, if not you lose money.

This would erase immediately one third of garbage items

[vagrant stone]

i think with the filters its ok now

[atomic cipher]

Its still pretty bad even with filters. If someone posts multiple items and only one has the filtered search youre still seeing everything. Nor do i want to sit and wait for an hour to pick up a set with the stats i want. Its not fun nor interactive. Id rather get my items and go lose them in my first match

[vagrant stone]

yeah true

[hasty vigil]

doesn't have to be high on the priority list but I think they need to and will add it eventually

[vagrant stone]

guys he's giving away free money

[turbid ermine]

so many bad suggestions

[hearty badge]

👀

[latent tundra]

The good items get sniped insta

[shadow blade]

I want illusion spells.

I think in a game where there's so many opportunities to make plays based on lightning,visuals and sound , illusion spells would be a perfect fit

Also trolling potential

[potent walrus]

@split pike rupture doesnt scale with magic dmg fyi

[split pike]

?

[potent walrus]

poison does but rup scales with additional Phys or some sht

[potent walrus]

and alot of repeated ones where people havent searched at all lol

[turbid ermine]

Yep

[potent walrus]

also fkin lol at people suggesting entire skill builds and try to develop new content

[split pike]

you're right

but still doesn't make sense to me that rupture should apply to a bolt

[potent walrus]

i still agree with your suggestion anyways just letting you know is all, bow shouldnt work with weakpoint argueably even, or just have its damage lowered

[shadow blade]

That's the whole point of suggestions,the f

[potent walrus]

Wp made it hit alot harder than rupture did anyways

[split pike]

thanks for the heads up, always thought rupture was magical damage, so the poisoned weapon is the nerf to make ?

[potent walrus]

poisoned weapon wasnt working correctly or was nerfed somehow last patch compared to pt4, but its still only one hit for one stack with xbow anyway

i just forget exactly which phys stat does rupture but it can certainly one shot you with good gear

i didnt mind having to look up and be cautious of ambushes from above, the fact they never needed to physically engage you made it broken

[split pike]

4 magical dmg over 4 sec, if you cant a build with 5 addional magic/true magi, counting resistances and magical power % buff i'd say you can reach 40 dmg easily with that perk, now counting rupture that is buffed with physi dmg bonus flat and %, you can reach 80 dmg with a single shot

[potent walrus]

ye a full geared rogue with wp rup was one shotting without issue

[split pike]

counting the dmg of the bolt itself it's sayonara

[potent walrus]

i swapped off rogue towards the end because it went from high skill high reward to low skill infinite reward lmao

[potent walrus]

nah man they have a dev team, no need to go quite that deep yet lol

but i appreciate that if you have an idea you wanna detail it, but there are more pressing basic systems to finish up first surely

[shadow blade]

Yeah probably,tho a new spell or two would make wizards life a bit easier , especially from the previous PT....

[potent walrus]

they will add new spells for sure

but based on the stuff so far, i trust them to come up with good stuff more than any community member, community balanced/developed games often go down the shitter super fast

[real trellis]

@granite plinth your usual antics are dumb enough as they are but now you're spewing actual misinformation that casts doubt on the intentions of IM and the legitimacy of the last playtest's security. If I didn't already have an open ticket with modbot I'd have reported you already.

[granite plinth]

So many salty noskill rogues downvoting anything that could be a problem to them

[granite plinth]

There is no misinformation. Torrents are illegal by the fbi

[real trellis]

⚡👨🏿‍🦱⚡

[granite plinth]

Dude is either low quality bait or a kid
or both

[shadow blade]

Low tier bat

[wary junco]

God i hate when i make mistakes in suggestions

I didnt even mention that the "bardic inspiration" effects your teammates aswell

[shadow blade]

@wary junco Oh,I thought that was implied
It sounds decent but I think there's a high chance of it being busted

[wary junco]

Well if it is busted or not gets decided how high the amount of flat dmg will be.

I made a an x for the number on purpose since this would be the way to balance it

[shadow blade]

I think for martials it's fine but when spells like fireball get into the equation
Or chain lighting

[wary junco]

Well that can be easily solved if that seems a balance problem simply do this (only the person that suffers the initial hit by chain lightning will recieve the Bonus dmg.... or magical instance only get 40% of its total value)

[potent walrus]

ur brain lackin

[wary junco]

So its 40% weaker for magical damage like for example if the flat amount is 10 then magic sources only benefit with 4 flat dmg but physical sources benefit for 10

[shadow blade]

Maybe, I'll change my thonk to a thumbs up

[wary junco]

Like my idea is very easily adapted into a balanced state. Its just a matter of if you actualy put effort into balancing it. You could also just change the cooldown on the ability even though i would imagine only physical dps would realy get the nerf there since dmg out of magic sources are mostly done in the start of the fight

Or diffrently said, if magic is involved the fights are mostlikely faster then if there is only physical dmg involved

Since most magic dmg has a very bursty nature

[shadow blade]

I think that's fair and simple

[wary junco]

Judgement, fireball, chainlightning etc

[shadow blade]

And clearly bards needs some help as a buffer
And cleric only really benefiting martials damage wise is kinda eh
Bard would have a clearer support identity

[wary junco]

I'd also suggest a perk that benefits song weaving but cooldown sadly

Songweaving = playing song use your weapons -> go black to play song -> go back to your weapons etc

So you are not purely just a music and buff bot

[graceful edge]

Honestly think that's a decent idea, introduces more skill requirement than guitar hero

Any weaving introduced can be very fun to play with

[wary junco]

This might be one aswell.

"Onward!" 30s cooldown active skill

You play the most heroic battle entrances known to human kind. You and your team do not fear death and will go onward no matter what! Making you and your Team immune to movement imparing effects or slows of any kind for 6 seconds.

To note here you will still take dmg by earthquake or achiles strike, you just wont be slowed by it. Same counts for beeing hit and its generic slow that comes with it... you take the dmg normaly but you are just not slowed

[slow lily]

lmao, people already asking for P2W stuff... boosts with premium ingame currency, yeah sure. Next lets do as Kakao Games with Black Desert Online, skins with stats, then everything P2W...
#d-and-d-suggestions message

[wary junco]

Well some people just pay a lot while engaging in a game. Thats completly normal since they know it from diffrent games they played. Its basicly a diffrent culture. But ironmace, as far as i know , doesnt want to go that path so no way its going to happen

[real trellis]

Bro wants to truly turn the game into a nexon game

[abstract swallow]

I dig that bard drinking song
That'd be great

[abstract swallow]

I included lots of typos in my most recent suggestion so that I could fit in with you all and you would be more comfortable giving me the big thumbs up yes

And not because I'm on my phone in a different country eating breakfast

[trim maple]

People really wanna be forced to go thru ruins and crypts to get to b3 every time? Why do you want every game to potentially take half an hour?

[abstract swallow]

That's literally the appeal of the game as a dungeon crawler
endurance adventuring is a core part of the unrealized design of every class
It's why we have mechanics like resting, ability charges, and interaction speeds (and many more that haven't been added)

[trim maple]

Maybe, but if we keep the system we have now where EVERYONE starts at the Ruins regardless of gear or experiece then we're going to have the same problem games like Rust have, where its impossible to progress as a new player unless you start right as the wipe starts. Which is sort of the draw of a loot and extract game, I get that. But being able to divert the more geared players into harder levels of the dungeon while the newer base-gear players can stay in the Ruins would be better for the overall health of the game imho

Basically a way to introduce gear-based matchmaking without introducing gear-based matchmaking

Also a way for more geared players to save time by not doing low difficulty content

[lucid root]

Anyone good is already in highroller

[trim maple]

Which is why it gets disabled there

[lucid root]

I think bags are going to help a bit with the 30 minute haul

Going to be more careful about not looting garbage as well

[trim maple]

Won't help with my patience for sitting through fights you can keep your eyes closed for and getting loot that isn't worth enough to matter until you wait the allotted time for red portals to spawn

[lucid root]

True for normal lobbies at least

[trim maple]

Also just feels like high-gear PvP doesn't belong in maps like Ruins in low roller anyway

[lucid root]

There are only like 2 people that go in with good gear in a full normal lobby

Everyone else has maybe two greens at best

[trim maple]

Depends

[lucid root]

So youre paying the price of waiting out ruins and crypt 1 for the most likely empty boss floor for easy farming

Sounds like a good deal

[trim maple]

Yea, I'm paying enough to not waste 20 minutes with bad loot but not enough for highroller.

[lucid root]

So you want a middle ground option

I do think dungeon keys could be cool, like a rare drop thats untradeable, lets you select a floor to spawn from

Single use obviously

[faint prawn]

Bruh high roller already does that

[signal rain]

Ppl want a safe space for them to run around in shit gear and not get stomped for it. Go playa. Single player game. Or go play goblin caves. Or just play like the rest of us and get shit on till we learned the game then do the shitting. And honestly when you get to a certain gear point normal lobbies are boring cause no one is a challenge. So that will force gear ppl to high roller. Especially when the stuff I came in with is better then anything ima find so it’s not worth it to go super kitted in reg dungeon

[abstract swallow]

HR will have more people self-selecting into it when they add durability and all 3 concurrent floors
It'll be harder to maintain an investment whacking defaults with purples if you never pull out anything but grey/white plates

[signal rain]

As long as it’s not like Tarkov where as you rebuild it gets worse and worse till it’s trash. Made that game kinda dumb among other things like the weight system ruining the zero to hero lottery runs

[abstract swallow]

EFT is basically a perfect example of everything to do wrong
The closest thing we have to that kind of gameplay is meds pushing up the gold floor for STR classes to a ludicrous degree, especially Fighter and his 6-campire adventuring days

[amber arch]

Wizard's light orb should be a magic light that reveals invisible players

[lucid root]

while i don't agree with him he's not saying he wants to skip floors because its too hard, he just wants to fight the boss without having to wait on normal lobbies

[split pike]

already is

[little osprey]

Does it actually

[lucid root]

Yes lol

[little osprey]

So your telling me if i get me pet wizard on he can just weezel out all the invis rouges

[lucid root]

If it removed unstealth buffs id run it

[marsh siren]

Unfortunately, the bard was incredibly underwhelming, I believe that even with some increase to its stats and numbers, the class would still play & feel bad regardless due to its fundamentals. If its spells were turned up by %300 and the class became broken, it would still be unsatisfying to play. Here are some suggestions.

Perks: Honestly, every perk was quite good, keep them all in there current iteration, however its important to mention that a bard (like in D&D) is a 'jack of all trades, master of non' type of class, Perks should directly reflect what type of weapons you want to take in & how much you want to lean into the support aspect, however we must understand, the Bard will never match the healing output of the cleric, nor will he match the damage output of a rogue, the key is to find a healthy medium between the two. Fundamentally we should be following the two main D&D subclasses, The College of Lore Bard & College of Valour Bard. One which heavily focuses on it's support output, the other focuses on its direct combat output. A number of perks should play around with the effectiveness of heals & speedups the bard can give to himself and his team, while the others focus on the damage output of himself and his team, such as attack speed & weapon damage.

One perk i would add is one which Greatly reduces the chance of the Bard spawning enemies from underneath him, why is this? In D&D, the bard is the master of out of combat situations, you need to talk to someone? convince them not to attack you? You use them to pass your charisma checks to get out of sticky situations before they arrive. This would allow the bard as a solo player to be able to run their own games much easier, as they will never emulate the killing power of the other classes and never really be able to avoid combat like the rogue.

[cloud marlin]

why suggesting there, instead of "make suggestion" channel?

[marsh siren]

too long

[lucid root]

Summarize

[marsh siren]

never

[willow dock]

issue I see rn with class design is that there are no subclass commitments and you can mix and match any of the perks and skills which makes the build potential way different than D&D and either means adding a different class with a different subset of perks and skills available or introducing a subclass system

Slayer on Fighter does seem to break the rules a bit and make the Fighter forced into a subclass (dual wield spec). But it is weird because if you use any other perk you don't have this issue

[slow lily]

haha same happened to me, have to 6h damn

[willow dock]

Part of me expects Warlock to have different types of spell memory skills, where each skill would have a different subset of spells you can match together. Not sure how that works in practice tho

[shadow blade]

....Two weapon fighting is a fighting style option for level 1 fighter

[strong cedar]

pretty sure they said this will be added in the future, as they have hinted at a class like Necromancer which is a subclass of wizard. It is not a priority though since the base game isn't complete

[willow dock]

right yeah, the whole subclass conversation is complicated because of that since things will change so much in an undetermined amount of time

[strong cedar]

it will require a lot of trial and error, not sure if they want to go down that hole just yet

[willow dock]

It doesn't force you to adhere to a certain playstyle in this game was the point, you still have access to every other perk, skill, weapon, armor

Taking Slayer is much different because you no longer have Plate Armor to fall back on if you loot someone with good plate, etc partway through a round. You have to commit to light armor which means you are wasting your opportunity cost much more if you don't dual wield

there is some overlap in functionality but stuff like the 2 wep fighting style (Dual Wielder) are exceptions to the rules since it's a Feat in 5e and available to any class.
We'd have to determine the overlap between perks and fighting styles, and perks to feats.
You could say that a lot of Perks work like D&D Feats limited to a Class which is prob true

I got it mixed up and thought you meant the feat but the fighting style is completely different yeah, but also follows different rules than perks

since you can only have 1 fighting style for most subclasses

[slow lily]

what do you think guys?
#d-and-d-suggestions message
I think this kind of upgrade systems (something like what Warhammer Vermintide 2 has) will be great for the game, ofc well balanced so if wealthy players wanna really maximize their gear they have to spend some of their precious gold stocks.
Player with bad gear will find a better progression as just upgrading an item from white to green can make a significant impact in your gameplay, upgrading increases the base stats (like what we already have in the game) and add X mod/mods to the item.
If you wanna go greedy goblin mode for good mod rolls you have to spend your gold & magic dust which increase each time you try and only resets after entering and escaping a dungeon with that item, pretty well balanced risk/reward system.

[lucid root]

No gear rerolling or modifying

[signal rain]

Agreed ^^^^

[willow dock]

yeah rerolls and upgrades would completely change the game

[signal rain]

Ppl want everything to be perfect but will ruin the fun of finding something good if anything can be made good

[willow dock]

loot isn't scarce enough to bother rn, we've only had a week or 2 at a time between wipes and ppl have got near-god roll sets already

would make it so the gear floor to compete with anyone remotely geared would get raised exponentially since it would be so much easier to minmax

[slow lily]

not at all, you should check the suggestion again

the cost is based on the gear rarity and each mod reroll increase the amount of gold and "magic dust" you have to spend to reroll again mods

its not a minmaxing suggestion, its focused on a better gear progression. What doesn't make sense is when a full purple gear party recks everyone on the lobby one tapping players with a.. idk for example well geared barb with cleric behind buffing and healing and the players with bad gear not having a chance to go hell for better loot

[willow dock]

that sounds like a different issue with overgeared players going into normals

[slow lily]

which could be solved with a better gear progression system, not limiting geared players from playing normal lobbies where someone else not that geared could get their loot if well played

[willow dock]

might want to approach it from a different angle, you might be "addressing" the problem but are opening up a whole different can of worms

[slow lily]

i dont think so, will be way better than going hells and not having a chance over geared players, cuz that floor escape portals are closer than 1st floor ones and most of the times hell escape portals lead to a fight

[signal rain]

Rerolls and stuff just make good gear less valuable

[lucid root]

My suggestion for the day

[gloomy cradle]

Not a fan of merchants in the dungeon. Kinda kills the loot and scoot vibe

[lucid root]

Fair point

[signal rain]

Merchant would just turn to a camping ground

[lucid root]

I think that just comes to placement really

[signal rain]

Plus what is someone killed your buds grabbed some of his stuff then ran off

By the time you caught up to him and killed him instead of ur friends gear it’s just gold bags. I’d be upset with that considering we are still in the game like I could get revived and my gear be gone

[lucid root]

Its just something to consider, 3 floors will be a long haul. I think bags will help too

[slow lily]

thats true but that doesnt mean the reroll "currency" will be cheap to spam mod rerolls and upgrades.
I rather play 4 normal games being careful and farming upgrade currency to upgrade my weapon (in case i didnt find a better one meanwhile) than yoloing hells with bad gear

[willow dock]

tbf there are already rooms on each floor that are considered "camping grounds" so adding more isn't necessarily a bad idea

[lucid root]

I just like the idea of going into a room thats normally full of mobs but a merchant has set up shop there with a stall, kinda peaceful vibes

[signal rain]

You can do that. But that’s the point of hell. They want you to go down there to get the good gear. The idea is you go down there for better gear but also a better chance to die

[signal rain]

Play a bard or wait for the tavern.

[signal rain]

It’s got it’s place. I was playing hard and managed to talk two 3 man teams into not killing me.

Bard. I don’t like the idea of forced safe areas I like the idea of coming across a fellow traveler figuring it out on ur own

[gloomy cradle]

Be the Dungeon Merchant you want to see in the game. You can hire me as a guard

[willow dock]

If only it was a safe space

[signal rain]

See that’s what I’m talking about. Don’t ask the game devs to do it and force it in the game make it your rp niche

Bring in a abundance of healing and arrows and stuff things people would need clarity potions and barter with them on spot

[willow dock]

Merchant on B1 does make sense imo in a 3-floor system since your inventory fills up so quick currently. Alternatives would include adding more inventory space with a backpack or allowing you to send some items off between floors for example

[signal rain]

And this ain’t Skyrim where you grab everything. They want you to grab only what you need. Forces scarcity which raises value

[abstract swallow]

Yeah, people that pick up all the 1x1 grey/white collectables they see will be in for a ride awakening someday.

[willow dock]

yeah if they didn't change it I wouldn't be devastated for sure

The scarcity balance is obv going to be an ongoing discussion tho since too much scarcity and almost no one's going to care about looting anything but the main rooms, but with a little less scarcity you get the flexibility to still get value out of going to other rooms (scarcity being inventory space in this situation)

[signal rain]

I do love the idea of a player being a merchant tho. Sounds fun. I was playing as a catholic missionary when we had 3 clerics trying to spread the word do the lord. If you survived all 3 judgments then god had seems you worthy and we left you alone

Idk maybe this train of thought is just me my pc gaming started with the dayz mod which had zero rules and all interactions were player made so that’s just kinda how I’m wired now. I life to see the community do cool stuff rather then a dev throw another NPC into it.

[lucid root]

i didn't say anything about it being a forced safe zone either, so camp away lol

but keep it toward the outer areas so its less contested maybe?

[signal rain]

To me the hardest part of the merchant is killing the guy that killed your bro and took his purp jewelry. But as he was being chased outa spite it quick sold the jewelry for 15g

Now I’m sit there like wow this guys just deleted my items basically without ever leaving the dungeon. I feel like that would be frustrating. Especially if like you lost a unique wep and the dude sold the 3k item for 43g in dungeon

[abstract swallow]

I can already see people being mad af about people dropping their bags as they run away, especially if it's somewhere inconvenient/in the zone.

[signal rain]

That’s why I like the player merchant idea cause at least you could kill him and get ur stuff

[signal rain]

I already had that happen. Some rogue killed my team mate when we got split up. I start chasing and he is just running away randomly dropping my bros stuff.

It’s funny but it is annoying

[lucid root]

rogue unstealths
hey you...care to browse my wares?

[signal rain]

Hell yea I would just don’t have your hands start glowin

And then when I’m looking at what you got 2 more rogues jump me or now I gotta barter for my way out of here. Adds a bunch of cool experiences

[lucid root]

Just max your speech skill

[signal rain]

I got that attest opposite gender perk for the deals

Attract

[gloomy cradle]

Got a selection of good things on sale stranja

[signal rain]

Would be perfect for a trip bard gameplay as if the customer started getting unrully you can perma pacify them

2 bards and a cleric would be a funny merchant team

[gloomy cradle]

I tried the 3 bard perma pacify, it doesn't work. There is like a 1 second gap between songs

[signal rain]

Damn saw a YouTube video seems plausible

[lucid root]

someones about to start a merchants guild

[signal rain]

You got me thinking now. When they asked where I got my wares. I’ll just tell them I get my wares from customers that don’t run fast.

[gloomy cradle]

The problem is people gonna try to scam you and then you have to fight them anyways

[lucid root]

(when the player rating system actually comes in handy)

[signal rain]

Yea you prob right but it would be fun

[gloomy cradle]

Would make good video content though

[signal rain]

I’ll have wares and if you had a good enough item I’ll loan you one of my team mates for the rest of that match

Be the first slave trader in the dungeons. 😛

[lucid root]

wiz/barb merchant guards, if anything goes down the wiz puts invis on the merchant to let him get away

[signal rain]

Genius

[gloomy cradle]

I was thinking Cleric guard so they can ready the heal and just cast it on you if they start attacking

[signal rain]

Think it would be funny if as you went to swing in the merchant he just disappeared never to be seen again

[lucid root]

barb slave trader with two naked rogues following him around

[signal rain]

I approve ^^^^

[sullen gulch]

100 up votes in 5 min

[signal rain]

Rogue needs more buffs

Feel like they need a new poison that slows. Or a I hit effect that opens a YouTube page in the background and Rick rolls you

[weak vine]

That sounds balanced

[high thicket]

Part of my suggestions for the Ruins map is to have several access points to F2 open early, perhaps as soon as 5 minutes into a match. It's a much better system than paying to ignore an entire section of the game

[lucid root]

entrances to the crypt scattered around actually closer to the spawns, but leave the choice up to you if you want to go into the middle of the map for more loot to give you a better start, the risk being more player combat

then keep the crypt 1-2 as they are with their portal spawns

[high thicket]

Personally I don't think the loot on Ruins should be all that good, but if you want to see my suggestions for the map check ID 1733266

[lucid root]

i don't think it will be once it becomes the new floor 1/ground floor

[high thicket]

I'm mostly concerned about encouraging players to actually go to F2. During the short amount of time the Ruins was attached to the rest of the dungeon I never saw a single person in the entire second floor, and half the time I couldn't even get to the second floor myself because the doors wouldn't open until the last couple minutes on the opposite side of the map

[lucid root]

i only played a couple games before it got reverted

[signal rain]

Ruins was fun. Till the drop down rogue became a thing .

[brittle jasper]

i expect that drop rates were much higher in the playtests than they would be in live hopefully in order to get good stuff you would be near forced to go deeper

[dense sand]

they are

[lucid root]

do people just not loot mobs/chests in highroller? seems like everyone just runs past it looking for fights in the clips

[tulip venture]

i love the idea of doing high rollers without feeling the need to run purples

[dense sand]

players wear good gear with good rolls

[tulip venture]

the people making clips have higher views if they just sprint into fights over and over

[dense sand]

https://streamable.com/o8kien you're welcome

[quick blade]

Think I broke the suggest bot

[dense sand]

people's bad suggestions got it deactivated again

whoever did the PVE only suggestion was the straw that broke the camel's back

[lucid root]

last working suggestion is a wizard buff suggestion

[quick blade]

Mine is just sitting the the make suggestion channel.

[lucid root]

wizard buffs need to be implemented first before they can take any more suggestions, please be patient

[dense sand]

#d-and-d-suggestions message look at this gem

[queen lotus]

I do like the sword breaker/parrying dagger idea.
Gives rogues the same ability to riposte but with an even smaller hitbox than longsword.

The main-gauche in particular is intended to be wielded in tandem with a rapier.

[hard meadow]

Yeah, Bard didn't get much last playtest, but he was super WIP

[smoky yoke]

also ranger wip
next there will be the additional type of arrows, like Ironmace said once

[tulip venture]

lmao

[lucid root]

absolute banger

[dense sand]

unstoppable, everyone knows the dutch are hands down the best with the bars, MOVE OVER CONWAY

"papapapapa-papapaaarty till I die" the lyricism, and flow simply astonishing

[gloomy cradle]

true and brave

[regal lotus]

It was a very short time. And I did see ppl on F2 in that time.

Ppl needed to give it more of a chance for ppl to get used to it and let IM balance the throughput into the lower floors. Not cry and scream like babies about it

[pallid sleet]

I think the blue lighting just threw everybody, had it been ruins > regular yellow dungeon, people would've reacted less harshly. damn shame though, yeah.

[regal lotus]

I don't think it was blue light mainly

[high thicket]

The problem with patching anything to do with Ruins last playtest was the distribution method of patches through torrents. Makes it difficult to adjust map balance effectively

To me the main issue was the inconsistency of access to F2. So many times I would wait by the gates to get to the next floor only to be forced out by the circle, and even if I went back at the last minute sometimes the gates still weren't open and the timer would run out.

[regal lotus]

Sure blue light was one thing for some ppl.

But the predominant thing was there being new pve and map, ppl feeling entitled to using game knowledge of map from last test to "have an edge", dying to pve, then blaming ironmace devs and the map to cope that they died.

[regal lotus]

Yea f2 access and portal distribution in general are often tweaked over the play test. It's a valid comment. But you don't cry and scream like babies on first day of a Test over it.

[abstract swallow]

Aside from the lighting and awkward but slightly improved spawns, most people mad about the Blue B1 was just people getting rolled by the new skeleton elites.

[inland sluice]

I loved the blue lighting personally, gave the map a completely different feel.

[regal lotus]

The crying caused them to kinda scuff both maps up to appease ppl and I wanted a better chance to try a 3 map system.

[high thicket]

In my most recent suggestions about F2 I suggested using alternative lighting in certain rooms instead of every room

[regal lotus]

This. They just wanted to blame something bc they git rolled by the new pve.

[dense sand]

me too, people whined so quick, the only thing that really needed to be reworked imo was the way the ruins stairs to the crypts worked

[high thicket]

I think having multiple styles of lighting would create a better dungeon atmosphere than having strictly one type of lighting throughout the whole thing

[regal lotus]

I liked it too, imagine crying and basing entire opinion of something around the color of the lighting. Screaming that the game is ruined like a baby

[inland sluice]

The one thing I didn't like was spawning already being attacked by Ai lmao but that would been an easy fix. They definitely should have let it ride for atleast a couple days

[abstract swallow]

Yeah the old spawns with elites added led to some psycho spawns like 4square and big corner.

[regal lotus]

Its just delusional ppl thinking they are good from last playtest being mad that the pve wasnt brain dead easy bcause they are brain dead.(it actually was easy you just needed to learn how to circle a wisp and back up from a dog and how to kill a crossbow skele) Getting mad because they have cognitive dissonance between their perceived skill vs actual skill, blaming a map and devs. Later in the PT ppl were having a great time on the new map and it was clearly not so bad.

[inland sluice]

It's the same thing with people crying about arrows. Things changed and people didn't want to give it a chance. It really didn't take much to do something as simple as loot the body real quick after a kill, or not wasting arrows on people that you couldn't kill and losing them

Definitely some improvements to be
Made but doesn't mean it doesn't belong

[regal lotus]

yea, piss me off these entitled whiny babies. Its a playtest let them test stuff shut up and play the game or dont

[dense sand]

💯

[inland sluice]

[regal lotus]

"would have paid 50$ for last playtest - now I wouldnt spend a dime on it. This new map ruins the game its garbage complete 180 terrible from last playtest. You have lost me as a customer" BRO SHUT UP

[dense sand]

people wanted the crossbow skeles removed or their damage cut in half as well LOL gitgud

[inland sluice]

I do think they can be brutal but I like the addition overall

That first time you get sniped as soon as you turn a corner scares the shit out of you lmfao

[silent cargo]

Only crossbow skeleton I don't like is that one in hell on the other side of a chest high tunnel with barrels blocking the exit - and it's guarding a spawn point

[queen lotus]

Eh, not their damage. But the change to the aggro made them instantly aim up and fire the instant you turned a corner.
give em an extra 2 seconds or so before they fire their first shot on aggro and they're good

[silent cargo]

That guy gave me nightmares

[inland sluice]

Some sort of visual que before they attack would be Enough

[dense sand]

the most troll placement was the one in the shadowy corner in hell

[regal lotus]

there is a visual queue. They are a bit punishing a change might be good. But you dont cry like a baby over something like that, they will fix it they always do.

ITS A TEST A FREE TEST

[inland sluice]

Ofcourse

[dense sand]

exactly, these crybabies are acting like everything is set in stone and the game is released gettin mad like they spent money on it and got bamboozeled

[abstract swallow]

CrossBones just needs a smug rattle before he shoots.
Spear and Axe need less tracking on their startup, I've had entire TEAMS hit by them spinning at the start of the swing/thrust as they retarget.

[inland sluice]

I'd easily pay a full 60$ for this game you can see the passion is there

I thought the zwei skeles were scary until I saw a clip of someone ducking under the swings

[queen lotus]

what the hell is your entire team doing grouped around an axe skeleton within range

[abstract swallow]

Teamfight in 4square, elite skeleton waddled across the spike floor and hit 4+ people at once
I wish I was recording it

[dense sand]

lol top tier cleave action

[wise turtle]

@fierce relic this is da wae

[fierce relic]

huh

how i delete my suggestion ? 😄 everyone hates it

[dense sand]

it lives on for eternity

[hearty badge]

It is displayed forever to remind ourselves of... stuff.

[fierce relic]

but people can change... ive learned form my mistakes and have grown as a person. let me forget the past and move on... open fresh page.. start over as better person 😭

[round cave]

the aggro fix (not change) made xbow skeles easier because they no longer sat there for 2-10 seconds before attacking

[robust bison]

for the time it was know that the doors were openned in the last 1m30 (i admit that was rly short)

and near each doors there was some pots or mobs that could give u some heals

so if u were badly prepared in term of healing (saying that ur team or urself if u were alone have no cleric cuz at this time resting for spells was fking fast af 💀) u could still have a chance to negate some dmg from the zone

[hearty badge]

Your mistakes should be monument to not only the community, but to yourself. Not everything you think about or say will be great, and that's okay - the same with all of us. It's part of being human in the climb to find a sense of perfection, or in this case, to provide that D&D could be the greatest thing since the sliced bread.

[smoky yoke]

i can delete it if you want me to do it
but i'd say it's fine, everyone has their own opinion on things

[lucid root]

become a downvote farmer, join the dark side

[fierce relic]

yes plz 🙂

[dusky field]

So do you guys think the next thing will indeed be an early access or will we have another alpha test to test some other new mechanics while also buying time until they solve their legal issues to get the game back on steam?

[high thicket]

I think we'll see early access next, but it may depend on if they can find an alternative way to distribute the game that allows for easier patching

[hearty badge]

I don't really care what they do, so long as they don't release another PT5.

[quick blade]

I bet they drop a super polished playtest with some sort of 2a counter to the ddos issue. It's the smart business decision. Get that nice positive pr hype up a week or two before you begin selling early access.

[little osprey]

I just whatched the make a suggestion disapear in real time crazy

[abstract swallow]

And I still had so much wisdom to share

Or did the Warden accidentally nuke the channel and rob me of my ability to suggest changing clarity potion colors to more closely match Baja Blast

[feral rock]

They removed the option to submit suggestions?

[lucid root]

the trash can was gettin' too stinky they shut it down

[smoky yoke]

under maintenance

[little osprey]

Bet

[dusky field]

I prefer to think this one's true instead of the "maintenance" one lol

[lucid root]

its up

[restive drum]

Guys can we stop submitting stuff like “equally split the gold from the run amongst the team” like shut up brother im leech shits my lively hood

[dusky field]

Nnnnno, honestly I think that's one thing they definitely should implement in order for grouping with randoms to be viable when dungeon diving. Otherwise... make killing the rogue not a reportable offence, since they'll always be the ones to loot everything and leave the team with scraps.

People who live off of sucking the blood from others are a cancer in society and should be purged, but since we're talking about a game, equally splitting the gold from sold trinkets is a good option too

[mossy pivot]

they should make big fire breathiing dragons we can fly around the map

[lucid root]

magic carpet for wizard is confirmed

[timid pollen]

pleas.. i pray for you give wizard a flying ,, instead, makes too sense.

[ripe haven]

@barren nimbus genius for drunk cleric

[potent walrus]

if i had a dollar for each quiver suggestion

[proud tinsel]

I only played enough ranger to confirm that ranged dps is still superior to all other even with the limits. How did people feel about it economically? Was it oppressive? I know my fear of getting bolts and arrows as drops was founded. Also the clarity pots were terrible giving you less chances at heals which is really all the matters.

[graceful frost]

Your takes on ranger are completely awful. Gain a brain

[lucid root]

clarity pots biggest nerf to ranger? 🧐

[pallid sleet]

not taking stacks of bandies and pots in with you?

[weak vine]

If anyone is looking for teammates for the next time the game is available we have a discord with active really good or casual teammates whatever you’re looking for just shoot me a message and I’ll send you an invite!

[little osprey]

Nerf bard he ruined the meta

[proud tinsel]

I had as much success on ranger this pt as I did last one... What am I wrong about?

[graceful frost]

every single one of ur takes is awful. not much to say.

[proud tinsel]

So you did not feel like there was an economical impact from buying arrows?

[quick blade]

Ranger was in a good place. I think the 10 arrow stacks was best and starting ranger with 15-25 arrows for starting gear was the most balanced.

[signal rain]

Yea I found that kinda annoying. Sometimes you get out with like 100g but now I gotta buy potions and bandages that’s 40g and I gotta make sure I have 40-50 arrows so a reup is usually 20-30g so to reup after one run I spend half of not more then what I got

[hearty badge]

I'm gonna be honest, he has a point. Rangers were nerfed into the ground and were still decent. In terms of receiving less healing opportunities over useless finds like arrows and clarity pots, I'd say it's still up for debate on the overall impact - But up front, it wasn't good half the time finding purely useless loot.

[high thicket]

Clarity pots sold nicely and stacked in a single slot so I didn't mind them.

[signal rain]

Yea I had a abundance of clarity pots in stage as a ranger

[hearty badge]

Yeah, it wasn't so bad in terms of the money making.

[high thicket]

Often times they were worth more than treasure items

[graceful frost]

im not just refering to that. was past conversation with him and he has had some very awful takes and stands by them

[round cave]

don't miss 20-30 arrow shots and you wont need to buy 20-30 new arrows every run

[gray crater]

you have to drop arrows to loot

[signal rain]

This weight system guy needs to go back to Tarkov

[tulip hill]

Is it just me or does the suggestion bot suck at counting?

[quick blade]

That's the negative to balance out being the class with ranged superiority. Ranger with 10 stack arrows was almost perfect balance. Only issue was the arrows and bolts should be removed from the majority of loot tables and be guaranteed on archers and crossbow mobs.

[gray crater]

You shouldn't have to reload if you have arrows

[signal rain]

Ranger with 10 stack was far from balanced You could fight a team and shoot 10 arrows and maybe kill only one of that depending on their peel. Now what I’m supposed to pull the short sword out and be a fighter. The buff to 30 arrows was class saving

[gray crater]

you have to bring a full inventory of arrows to do a boss annoying as hell and changes nothing

[signal rain]

Exactly

Ranger only class that’s has to spend money to keep the main wep functional. Not to mention it takes up 30-40% of your inventory

Ranger should get a small 2%-5% selling increase to accommodate for being the only class that has to buy ammo for their main purpose

[gray crater]

nah just add a quiver

[high thicket]

I'm reasonably sure they'll make the arrows easier to manage. Rangers aren't the only class who would benefit from having a quiver slot

[signal rain]

I’d settle for a quiver

[abstract swallow]

We'll get quivers when we get weight and bags. Ranger will be king of supplies.

[high thicket]

Increasing selling prices on one class is a horrendous idea. No class should have that kind of economic adjustment, instead prices on arrows should be reduced to make them less of a financial burden. Ideally as a Ranger you're not using bandages or potions as much as a melee class, so you're essentially balancing economic advantages between the need for healing versus the need for ammo. Also arrows should only take up two slots.

[gray crater]

I would just bring in like 70 arrows and drop the rest at the gold hoard

[abstract swallow]

Arrows were clunky at bosses, so if they throw a few ammo bundles in boss rooms I'd be happy.

[proud tinsel]

Yeah I stand by all my statements because I actually research and think about things before I say them.

[barren nimbus]

👍

[opal badge]

I think wizard/cleric spells should be removed entirely, it's unbalanced having classes that can cast spells when others can't.

[ripe haven]

Then fighter can't wear plate mail and barbarians may not use franciscas

[eager sable]

Suggestions can only be submitted in the following channels: #1048762118255673428

[opal badge]

In a perfect world

[ocean timber]

Ironically with the bonuses and negatives listed for the classes when u look at them, only fighter said 'cant cast spells' so maybe they will have a multiclass system or something that lets other classes have a choose of a small pool of spells

[hasty sedge]

haha as a fighter i agree, but they need some rework and if that is gear scaling or something else idk

[chilly isle]

Agree

[ocean timber]

It's definitely gear scaling cause when I play wizard even with a crystal ball I am doing jack to a fighter, but as a fighter I get double zap killed when I have decent magic resist

[hasty sedge]

yepas, but idk clerics judment or concecrate or whatever its called is op level 1 since its just 50 hp point and click

[ocean timber]

Ironically never was attacked by that. Any cleric I saw ran the fk away or died instantly

They either tried healing or ran in to melee, either way they got merked fast

[hasty sedge]

haha, lucky but kinda same for but it was either one tapped or them running for their life

[proud tinsel]

It has a very close range and its easy to dodge and still put it on cd

[hasty sedge]

I mean, fighters are kinda slow and in the goblin caverns your usually forced into one path or running around though a bit of the storm due to the three floor design

[sudden glacier]

ban the guy that suggested weight

[hasty sedge]

does anyone else also feel like a random starter kit would be cool similar to scavs and pmc mechanic from tarkov but rather when you die you get a random kit meaning weapons and maybe armor, i mean not anything super op but instead of always getting a regular bow maybe a survival bow, crossbow or something in that manner due to the reason of making combat more interesting and fair somewhat whilst also giving players more of a reason to experiment with different playstyles?

[ocean timber]

I thought weight was a thing they planned on

[sudden glacier]

No, they werent sure what to do

weight sucks

[high thicket]

This game doesn't need a weight system.

[sudden glacier]

agree 100%

[inland sluice]

its already in the ui, its coming eventually

[lucid root]

body fat sliders

[high thicket]

Also I've waited all this time to post my list of suggestions for Inferno and now the channel is closed

[sudden glacier]

worse than weight would be stamina

[inland sluice]

have weight affect movement speed and nothing else would be fine, wont affect your big heavy classes as much but could help slow down rogues

[high thicket]

Things listed in the UI does not mean it's guaranteed, they can always remove that element from the UI.

[sudden glacier]

nah it would encourage people not to loot

[inland sluice]

id be very suprised if they didnt atleast test it live at some point

[sudden glacier]

I dont see the point in adding it would just make the game more annoying and they would end up balancing a lot of shit until it feels the same as it is rigth now, weigth sucks

[high thicket]

The weight system in Escape From Tarkov was so oppressive at one point it made more sense to run minimal armor so you could get to high-value loot areas before anyone else.

And players with maxed out strength skill had an instant advantage because it removed the weight cost of your equipped weapons, in addition to increasing your carry limit.

Eventually they toned it down a bunch, but it still warps the game heavily in favor of high level accounts who can afford high-tier light armour.

Also with no way to increase inventory space, a weight system is redundant. You're already limited on how much you can carry by how small the inventory space is.

[sudden glacier]

something I like about this game is that it is simple but it has the essential components to make it good, the game doesn't need to be super complex and annoying, just like minecraft in its time just a game of cubes in which your creativity was everything

[lilac matrix]

when exactly did rouge start and stop being a assasian sneaky class was tbh it feels like it was best in playtest 4 (a little op) then playtest 5 it was broken

[high thicket]

It never stopped being a sneaky assassin class, it just became Batman instead of a generic ninja

[inland sluice]

but with backflips

[lilac matrix]

i dont see how they fix it without removing double jump

[sudden glacier]

they buffed rapier way to much, and double,and now you can just poke people and run constantly

[hearty badge]

I advocate for double jump being removed entirely - As I stated before, mobility is key in D&D, and an advanced player should not be over written by someone taking a passive.

[sudden glacier]

they need to add a small cooldown for double jump, something like 6 seconds

[high thicket]

Everyone loves to shit talk double jump. You could fix double jump by only making it give you half a jump instead of a full jump.

[lilac matrix]

speeds nuts idk what they did to bro like i got destroyed playing fighter with sprint on and no plate armor getting outrun by rouges in full gear

[hearty badge]

It's a dumb mechanic that doesn't need to be in the game for Rogue to be successful, period.

[high thicket]

Also it was clearly bugged. During a regular jump you can't turn in midair, but during a double jump you had full midair control

[inland sluice]

it definetly needs to be worked on, but its a first iteration, let them work on it and see if it gets better

[lilac matrix]

ive seem like 3 suggestions for wizards to have flight like wtf?

[sudden glacier]

they are trolling

[inland sluice]

isnt that a copypasta?

[hearty badge]

Yeah, and Barbarian should just get a leaping ability 🙄

[lilac matrix]

gotta be

[sudden glacier]

some people said that they should give horses to fighters

[inland sluice]

yeah why not? but make sure if they charge into a doorway they get knocked off the horse for 90% of their hp and stunned while getting up

[lilac matrix]

there was a recent suggestion for a lance like just makes no sense

[silent mica]

Nah take DJ to the dumpster where it belongs, or completely redesign the map

There's already plenty of tricky spots you can get to without it, but it's absurd with it. And I mostly played rogue this last PT

[sudden glacier]

yeah like 50% of the last playtest were fighters and rogues

[inland sluice]

clerics too, they were broken

[sudden glacier]

the ranger nerf was crazy, they got like 6 nerfs in one patch

[inland sluice]

man rangers were fine to play, it was my first lvl 20. it didnt take much to loot a corpse after you killed it

[high thicket]

https://youtu.be/jiElB9gcYmg?t=10

[sudden glacier]

after the patch they were

[inland sluice]

i got lvl 20 on the initial build, was trying out other classes after hotfix 1

[lilac matrix]

i wanna play ranger so bad but its horid theres not even hit markers at more then like 10 meters and crazy arrow travel time

[sudden glacier]

the biggest problem is that arrows take like 1/3 of your inventory, not the fact that you cant get arrows

[inland sluice]

i feel like that problem will be solved when they inevitably bring in a sort of quiver. id be very suprised if they didnt

[sudden glacier]

yeah maybe, but for now they could make them stacks of 20 or something like that

[inland sluice]

theyre already stacked to 15, plus you got whatevers in your bow

[charred wing]

a pvp collosuem doesn’t seem that bad of an idea

[sudden glacier]

I dont know if you tried killing bosses but 15 wasnt enough, I had to bring like 75 arrows and they took like 60% of my inventory

[lilac matrix]

is wizard viable for killing bosses ive never tried

[inland sluice]

id be down for a pvp arena type deal, but i feel like loot should stay attached to the regular dungeon. make it more of a fun mode, maybe give adventure points or something.

[sudden glacier]

yeah but it is harder, cause you have to stay still to use magic missiles

[inland sluice]

theres some videos of high rank wizards fighting the bosses

[sudden glacier]

nah I dont see the point, why would they do that when there is chivalry, same for the people that suggest pve mode, just go to darksouls dude

[lilac matrix]

kinda crazy that indie game devlopers discoverd time dilation before the us goverment https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/130sftw/indie_game_studio_discovers_time_dilation/

[charred wing]

you can practice pure pvp

[hasty vigil]

a mode to practice fighting would be neat but not priority

[tender grove]

@dawn grotto우리는 당신들이 게임 개발에서 약간의 저항에 부딪혔다는 것을 알고 있습니다. 만약 자금 지원이 필요하다면, 이 플랫폼은 PayPal을 지원하기 때문에 크라우드 펀딩을 시작할 수 있습니다.※paypal를 선택한 이유는 마스터와 비자카드로 결제할 수 없는 부분이 있기 때문입니다.※) 크라우드 펀딩에 참여하는 게이머들은 공식 게임의 사전 테스트에 참여할 수 있습니다. 동시에 공식에 피드백을 제출하면 게임의 일부 칭호를 얻을 수 있습니다(비피부 보상 칭호를 제안하는 것은 게임 본체의 출시일 단축을 위한 고려 사항). 자세한 정보는 다른 중소 게임업체가 출시한 게임 BattleBit(스팀 비즈니스 모델 정보 있음)를 참고하면 됩니다.게이머들은 게임을 할 수 있고, 공식적인 자금 사정이 완화되어 윈윈할 수 있는 거래이기를 바라고 있습니다.

[rigid prawn]

Why does this matter? Dark souls is similar in the fact it’s a move set based fighting game but the similarities end there. Chiv has 0 magic so mages are SOL? Why is an arena a bad idea when it would be fairly simple to implement

[restive drum]

to many people want this game to be like EVERY other game that has 1 sword in it. parries from dark souls, movement speed debuffs just let dark and darker be dark and darker

[willow dock]

I hope the positional audio gets improved with HRTF or something, especially hard to tell when something is above or below you. Also some corridors causing abrupt (and sometimes improper) changes to acoustics.

[rigid prawn]

When did i suggest any of that? An arena is a great idea for overall game health and gives people a place to sink resources into when there inventory fills. It detracts from the game nothing, pure net positive.

Also the game is still being built, there is no Dark and Darker yet, just a proof of concept subject to change

[restive drum]

would help heaps for goblin caves

[restive drum]

yeh but the games not a extraction is it then?

[willow dock]

for sure, instead of guessing where the portal is and having to run around multiple floors just to confirm if you're unlucky enough

[restive drum]

that sentence hits home

[rigid prawn]

Dungeons and Dragons isn't an extraction game either but is the direct inspiration for the game. Anything is possible, no need to cut down ideas because it doesnt fit the mould of the current alpha build! Devs have shown interest in expanding the game past just an extraction game already and there's nothing stopping you from ignoring an arena mode if its implemented anyway.

Besides, you tell me, why is the addition of an arena a bad idea besides 'Not an extraction game mode"

[restive drum]

1. splits up playerbase

2. more work towards garbage modes

3. some guy made a fortnite map of dark and darker go play that it will have all the features ur asking for hop in creative with an infinity blade and good to go

[lucid root]

[high thicket]

Much like Escape From Tarkov, if there's an Arena mode on the horizon, it's way WAY far away.

[proud tinsel]

Its not a bad Idea, its just not some peoples ideas. The devs are going to do things that you don't like or don't think are necessary. Getting mad about them doing a PvE thing is not going to stop it. Being mad at people for asking for PvE is not going to get them to stop asking. The devs ultimately are going to do what they think is best for the game and make it a commercial success.

[high thicket]

No point in an Arena mode if the main game isn't cleaned up yet, so don't expect one for a year or two.

[rigid prawn]

1.Playebase split is minimal since it offers very different experiences and would only become a problem if the game became very low pop. Mordhau has 3 game modes and a peak of 7k players in the last 30 days and you can still find a game in any of the 3 game modes with a minimal wait.

2. Opinion based point, disregarded

3. I dont want to play fortnite, are you trolling?

Edit: Im not saying they should drop everything to make an arena, im saying why shut down the idea before it has time to develop?

[willow dock]

yeah arena mode isn't inherently a bad idea but a sour thought rn for many considering the current focus

[hasty sedge]

honestly i believe a private arena mode would be sufficant as i also believe if such a thing existed there would be servers that offered ranked seasons and such

[restive drum]

yes im trolling lmao just get over ur gear fear mate throughout the playtest i hade no gold cause i chewed through 1000s a day u hade no gold because u sat in lobby scared to a single run

[rigid prawn]

I have 0 gear fear in a game that lasts 5 days lol, i run my second best set with my best set reserved for when i play with my team.

Why make arguments in bad faith dude so toxic :P

@hasty sedge it woudl be so quick for them to make, look how fast they had goblin caves and Ruins made, a map the is essentially a circle with stands and 2 starting point on either side would take a day for these guys to throw together based on their previous work. Unreal 5 is Legos lol

[hasty sedge]

what

[high thicket]

Yeah, they made Ruins in a couple months and it was poorly implemented. They even admitted that themselves

[restive drum]

yeh cause ironmace the indie game devlopment team make every thing in the weeks before another playtest modelling animations code testing server game intrigration all done in 2 weeks 🤣

[hasty sedge]

@rigid prawnIm not against it im saying a arena mode would be great to practice and get better at the game overall all im saying is that if people are afraid of splitting the huge playerbase for this game then a private arena that works with invites and such would be enough

[high thicket]

Currently an Arena map is not worth the time to implement. They have too many things to work on first

[rigid prawn]

Goblin caves has its problems to, but a map thats a circle with 0 hallways and 1 portal that spawns when someone dies would take a day to make for me lol. Like i said, Unreal 5 is legos.

@restive drum We are the testers and theyve already done it twice?

[high thicket]

Now the real issue at hand here is the #1048762118255673428 channel is still unavailable and I have suggestions to make!

[hasty sedge]

The thing they should focus on is the lawsuit and getting the game to the public as soon as possible but it is always good to have a plan of what to implement in the future or ideas to implement

[restive drum]

brother has lost the plot hes fell into a phycotic episode after not having dark and darker for a week (there are more to come)

[rigid prawn]

Im actually fuming straight foaming at the mouth i need to drink a monster and punch a hole in the wall asap

[hasty sedge]

lolers

[restive drum]

brother make dark and darker rt unreals free xd

[rigid prawn]

I already have 3 projects ongoing dude im only 1 man!

[restive drum]

woweeee!

[hasty sedge]

dont worry bois dont worry, the game will come out one way or another, and there are already people trying to fix private servers for the playtest 5 build and besides im sure that the game will come out one day due to the popularity

[gray crater]

[restive drum]

@rigid prawn

servers called the pizzeria join and help out if ur such a god at unreal

[rigid prawn]

IANAL but from what I’ve read from some sources I trust on the matter, the worst case scenario is a payout from Ironmace to Nexon. There are systems in place to allow healthy competition, shutting down the project is next to impossible legally (in America).

That being said, even in that situation the games gained enough traction the copy cats are already going to be popping up soon more then likely.

[rigid prawn]

My C++ is garbage, let alone the fact that networking is a skill in itself, a skill I unfortunately lack. Plus like I said im busy, but one of my projects is taking some inspiration from the last playtest lol

[hasty sedge]

@rigid prawnthats what im saying lol

[rigid prawn]

Yep! Just adding onto it!

[trim maple]

you anal?

[rigid prawn]

Only on days that end in y

[trim maple]

[hasty sedge]

Ahh, ok (@trim maplei means "I am not a lawyer" according to google)

[trim maple]

i know i just thought it was funny lol

[hasty sedge]

yepers

[rigid prawn]

An unfortunate acronym

[hasty sedge]

But ngl the only reason its used

[trim maple]

why does this one have like 0 votes btw its not even that far up #d-and-d-suggestions message

[restive drum]

i have no idea what that means

[trim maple]

have u not used trading halls?

[restive drum]

im confused on what u want like icons or something?

like permanant trade offers?

[round cave]

I know what he wants

It's not that helpful though, he just wants to save the time it takes to click a bunch of money bags

[hasty sedge]

sheesh conjo with the marketing

[trim maple]

i want like a thing to insta-buy certain items but without having to drag all the moneybags and shit ya

[trim maple]

😎

[hasty sedge]

guessing something more mainstream and similar to steam market?

[trim maple]

Basically like steam trade offers but easier to change before it actually goes through, yea

Maybe you could even put in "item of equal or greater value" or something like that

[hasty sedge]

steam offers, i mean if one is already going make something easier wouldnt a market where the lowest price rules be the best for the comunity, while rarity buffs would make this harder i guess it would be similar to floats on csgo skins

[trim maple]

eh idk, i just think it would be a good qol change for lazy shits like me who wanna click once instead of twice

[hasty sedge]

Agreed, would love some improvements to the trading!

[restive drum]

ohhhhhh

[tulip hill]

what are your guy's thoughts on the fact that Wizard shares a weapon with Rogue in the Rondel Dagger?

[inland sluice]

No problem to me, tons of weapons are shared between classes. crossbows, swords, falchion, mar maul etc. Just gives the wizard a better melee option

[tulip hill]

personally, I think it would be better in the long-term if Wizard has a different dagger to pair with the ball
as of PT5 wizards having the Rondel has its merit since you don't want to dilute the loot pool with too many class exclusive items but once Warlock comes out I definitely think they should replace the Rondel with a shared dagger between the two arcane classes
something like an Athame, which would probably also end up on druid as well

[inland sluice]

problem is, how would you make sense of rogues not being able to use a certain kind of dagger? its what theyre proficient in right?

[tulip hill]

I mean, I'm sure they could logically use it, but logically there's no reason the Ranger can't use the falcon since they can use the arming sword
and there's no reason the barbarian can't use the Halberd since they can use the Bardiche, I mean hell, a Halberd is just a specific kind of pole axe and barbarian is all about axes
or how about this, why can't wizard use a Kris Dagger? Castillon and Stiletto makes sense because they are coded to be off hand daggers but nothing stops them from using a Kris besides class restrictions

[high thicket]

I think Wizards using the Rondel is fine. It's basic, it has an easy to predict attack pattern, there's no real reason to make a dagger specifically for Wizards and also remove the option of the Rondel. It would be neat to have a crystal dagger, though I'm not sure how you would balance it with the crystal ball.

[tulip hill]

I'm not sure what you mean when you point out its easy to predict attack pattern
if you mean to say its all stabs with little variation, this is true but not super relevant
as for making a dagger specifically for wizard, not only would this not be for wizard exclusively as I said I wanted it to be shared with other casters
but also the Rondel being basic is one of my issues with it, I'd have less of an issue with it if the Wizard could use the Kris instead since that weapon has mystical significance in Indonesia

[compact edge]

no

[vagrant stone]

i think wizard using melee itself is an interesting debate, but a lot of the game does somewhat rely on melee so i'm not sure about it. I think the main problem with wizard is if melee ends up becoming the meta then it's kind of weird.

[robust bison]

I tried in each gamemode of mordhau with MM and found no match 💀 (tried at least 5m each)

[reef spindle]

Have anyone heard about fokos axe? I think it would be great to addition to the game

[real trellis]

The long axe with the tiny little head? It'd be interesting trying to land the sweet spot on a weapon like that haha

[prisma dock]

I