suggestion-discussion

[obtuse lichen]

Deeper floors should have 3 man portals
like they did in ruins

[somber wind]

Ehh I like the Deeper floors still having risk, I dislike the idea of it being so free to escape like that. To make bosses more worth it though it should be 3 man portals since sometimes you kill the boss and then you're just screwed.

[obtuse lichen]

Thats what im talking about

[tulip hill]

especially since it takes so much time to kill them and then get some loot for the pile

[obtuse lichen]

i died like 5 times this playtest because of sacrificing myself so that my team can extract

[somber wind]

I'm saying single portal exits should exist for Inferno but there should also be upon killing the boss 1 spawn of a triple portal not that all portals should be triple portals like you were saying.

[obtuse lichen]

I think said about a single 3 man portal

[obtuse lichen]

1 single 3 man portal in the last ring
excuse me if i didnt but thats what i meant

[glacial sphinx]

Think its cool to have 3 man portal spawning on boss kill only

[somber wind]

Yeah same

[tulip hill]

agreed

[obtuse lichen]

Also its going to be cool if you summon the boss by yourself instead of making it prespawned

[somber wind]

I think it should also be a guaranteed 1 portal after the Troll boss in Goblin cave.

[somber wind]

I like it being pre-spawned, makes the room more dangerous.

[obtuse lichen]

So that you can move around the rooms without being buttfucked by the boss if came just to loot rooms instead of bossing

[edgy hound]

small change but i think is little needed to find good random teams is adding lvls till 50 that is progressively harder to get, met so many 20s that had no clue how to pvp or even kill mobs probably

[tulip hill]

or maybe move the guaranteed exit into the troll room

[obtuse lichen]

every boss should have guaranteed extract upon killing

[tulip hill]

would definitly make going for them more appealing

[obtuse lichen]

just make it spawn after 20s upon killing the boss not instant
just to make chance for other players to force pvp on you

[tulip hill]

ehh, they should have contested you while you fighting the boss

[obtuse lichen]

Not everyone likes clusterfuck fights

[tulip hill]

then wait until the boss is dead
dude can't open the portal if you are swinging on them

[obtuse lichen]

Sometimes its better to wait and then go in
why finish opponents job you can just wait for them to kill lich and after that ambush

[tulip hill]

well they can but unless they are a tank it won't end well

I'm just saying 20 seconds is a long time if you just want out

[somber wind]

20 seconds is a horrifically long time, Imagine you kill the boss with 18 seconds before it fully closes the zone.

[obtuse lichen]

actually yes

but still making some delay on portal spawns like 5-10 seconds might be good

[somber wind]

I've killed ghost king with almost no time left before due to soloing it.

[obtuse lichen]

Just dont solo it XD

[rough elm]

Then why just not add special item after the boss dies , that special item would open portal only for you and no once could access

[somber wind]

I don't trust others to be competent enough at the fight to not get me killed lol

[tulip hill]

well it takes a couple seconds for the pedestal to come out of the ground then a couple more seconds to open it (depending on class) and then that small amount of time where you can't actually step in

[somber wind]

I think just having to open the portal is enough time to get contested. People will know you were fighting and hover on the outside. Edit: yeah as Zest said.

[edgy hound]

yo make a suggestion is now open, you guys go at it with the ideas

[tulip hill]

yo? nice

[somber wind]

YO?

I threw the portal thing into it: #d-and-d-suggestions message

[edgy hound]

i made a quiver suggestion as well, i feel like it doesnt change anything when it comes to limited arrows and is actaully not annoying to deal with arrows in inven\

[tulip hill]

I like the idea of a quiver but am unsure of how exactly it should function

[wary junco]

I just want a 60 base dmg lute to bonk ppl with

[tulip hill]

Strength Based Bard
A Bardbarian

[obtuse lichen]

everyone wants it

[wary junco]

Imagine a unique lute enhancing your team so absurdly that you speed around like sonic

[obtuse lichen]

imagine if bard had jokester perk instead of rogue

[wary junco]

Thats also very true, it realy confused me why rogue had thst perk

[tulip hill]

I'm not opposed to it, bard needs all they can get

though I would miss my free stats on rogue

[feral rock]

Yeah, lets make rogues into super mario walljumping back and forth. Would be a fun thing if they combined the backwards spin of rogue into a wall thing where you jumped into a wall to spin around someone behind you to get behind them.

[wary junco]

Rogues already have way to much like a spoiled child in a rich family

[obtuse lichen]

bard was truly lacking

[wary junco]

Yeah for me it was very obvious that bard got thrown into the playtest without any big thought... basicly just to have it.

[obtuse lichen]

Only 4 notes and 2 of them are questionable

[tulip hill]

I'm not sure I know what you mean

[obtuse lichen]

also these ones that are useful just straight up dogshit because of the low duration and hard to cast

[feral rock]

https://tenor.com/view/backflip-trick-run-jump-gif-3454905

[wary junco]

Or just realy poor quality of the song itself like the healing one

[feral rock]

like that gif

[obtuse lichen]

the song itself has really good idea behind it but the difficulty to cast and duration of the regen is not worth it

[tulip hill]

oh! the backflip ability
yeah, thet skill needs to be changed a bit
either a bit faster of an animation or a bit more distance (preferably distance imo)

[real trellis]

I'd be fine with the dodge being improved as long as a cooldown is slapped on it

[tulip hill]

how long of a cooldown were you thinking?

[wary junco]

Not necessarily the duration, maybe just the itensity of the hp ticks , idk casting those songs are very easy after you played them about 3 times

Just put a 5 s cooldown on the double jump

[obtuse lichen]

sorry for bad explaining
Its not like difficulty more like time to cast

[feral rock]

I don't know if having static songs is a good thing. I would assume people could then just make macros for perfect optimization for songs

[wary junco]

That issue should be fixed with the rarity of the lute, it should reduce the time beeing cast.

[obtuse lichen]

Imo bard should have huge duration on his songs or ability to play them non stop
to make him more like semi support

so that he can engage in pvp as well if he chooses to

[wary junco]

Yep the bard should be allowed to weave about 2-3 attacks in before he has to do redo his song.

Rightnow you are basicly constantly just playing which feels pretty bad

[obtuse lichen]

yeah

[pliant ridge]

why is there a 5hr timeout on the make suggestion channel?
I did the .suggest and now want to .shortinfo but cannot 😐

[feral rock]

You can't do both in the same message?

[tulip hill]

what about a resource system
you can play continuously but the less perfect you play the more it drains the resource
once you run out of this resource you stop playing
resource comes back slowly over time

[obtuse lichen]

sounds like a stam system to me

[wary junco]

An unnecessary one to be exact

[obtuse lichen]

Resourcefulness stacking lets go

[pliant ridge]

they probably intended that but it didn't come across
https://i.imgur.com/cIPcQ3v.png
bots can be finicky so I was just following the example

[wary junco]

Limiting someone in their playstyle and forcing them to do something diffrent then trying to introduce to diffrent playtsyles is not wise

[feral rock]

I am just disappointed bard songs stops if you switch weapon considering the time spent singing the song

[obtuse lichen]

actually that might be a good idea for some future classes but rn resourcefulness is kinda WIP

[wary junco]

Ressourcefullness might be the stat for druid, you could make a unique trait for the druid that his healing spells scale with ressourcefullness

[terse marten]

add paladin

[obtuse lichen]

if they are going to bind resourcefulness to inventory space that is going to make a huge loot bag from the bard

pinata bard

[wary junco]

That is not a good idea, considering you would gatekeep classes from getting loot

[tulip hill]

especially since they find better loot

[obtuse lichen]

ik

[pliant ridge]

@true yacht
#d-and-d-suggestions message
For this one maybe if it was a gamemode or specific map you had to choose.
There's definitely people who wouldn't want only-dark dungeons, but I'd be keen on giving it a try

[obtuse lichen]

bro i already cant see

[pliant ridge]

you wont be able to edit your description for 6 hours though 😛

[wary junco]

Sadly paladin has a problem of identity between cleric and fighter, i fear that paladin if it ever will get introduced will just feel like cheap knockoff of a cleric frontliner

[obtuse lichen]

its a multiclass

[true yacht]

When I was talking with my homie earlier, I think she actually said something about exactly that. Imagine they did that for High Roller..... That would be horrifying. But unplayable as well.

[obtuse lichen]

i think they are planning to add sub classes later on

[pliant ridge]

I wish we could add reacts, I just want to it or something but not fill up the chat with replies 😦

[wary junco]

That would make the current System to complicated in my opinion @obtuse lichen

[obtuse lichen]

yeah it requires a ton of work

[wary junco]

Not only work, it makes it way to complicated for the common playerbase. Think about it... they will introduce questlines crafting and even more gathering

[obtuse lichen]

also that means perks are going to be dedicated to certain sub classes as well

[wary junco]

Yeah thats never going to happen hopefully

[obtuse lichen]

so if you want to get subclass bonus you are going to sacrifice some perks as well

Its going to be like 50 pros and 50 cons probably

[wary junco]

Yeah and thats just bad design it forces people to make a decision thst limits their possibilitys

[feral rock]

I hope there will be something for hitting levels after 15. And that each class will have more talents/skills and they be tweaked often too balance them out

[lone crescent]

Or maybe you can use all perks you want but is pointless to use 2hander if you do a 1h subclass

[obtuse lichen]

imo just making more perks should work better than making sub classes
so no one limits you and you can be pretty much everything you want

[feral rock]

Maybe subclass is the way to fix double jump rogue. Everyone can pick up the talent from subclassing rogue

[wary junco]

Yeah making more perks is fine, but making sub classes forcing you to take specific perks is bad.

[obtuse lichen]

I like free build system since im POE player

[wary junco]

Hell no just put a proper cooldown on the double jump

I dont want to play Quake or titanfall here no thanks

[obtuse lichen]

Most of the perks are balanced rn the main problem for me is skills some of them are just straight up superior to other or others just not worth taking like a winning strike

Maybe its just me but it feels like 2 ability slots are not enough

[wary junco]

That is true, but that is a genrell balancing issue every developer has. Honestly rogue for this playtest was completly overtuned considering he nearly had double of the perks then every class

[feral rock]

Skills for sure are not balanced. Specially second wind is superior to everything else the fighter has option for

[wary junco]

Blurting the game with more abilitys will make the game a lot faster as it already is... in my opinion it is fine as it is

[feral rock]

Rogue was only busted because of double jump and ruins being the map it was. Before they made it 9 portals. Rogue was not all over that map

[wary junco]

Doesnt change the fact that rogue had about 12 perks where the bard had 5

[obtuse lichen]

I think making some perks are bound to first slot and second might me the great idea so that you cant combo something like sprint and second wind
Splitting skills in minor and major slots might be great

[feral rock]

I actually wished they stayed with the few portals and stairs. But people cried like no tomorrow. Instead of getting used to it.

[obtuse lichen]

Or something like 1 defensive/utility skill 1 offensive/buff

[wary junco]

Very Bad idea, since it once again limits the player in its creativity to choose their main abilities thst decide about death or survival

[feral rock]

Don't see how that would be balanced for spell casters unless they get far more skills to choose between

[obtuse lichen]

Casters are supposed to cast

[glacial sphinx]

I think the fog removal and lighting changes were a huge positive. I think the stairs mechanics were kind of cool but needed some further work. Probably having them open sooner would've made things a lot less bad. I also think in general that having two long maps isn't the play, because it'll require treasure to be very sparse in the first one or people will have a full inventory by the time they reach the second.

They could have Ruins as it is, but still add the stairs opening in the last 3 minutes to a shorter dangerous map with a tough boss for example.

[feral rock]

I like the first ruins map because it felt like a middle ground between crypt and high roller. While with the new one. It just felt like a 2nd crypt in a way

[obtuse lichen]

Thats why im not suggesting it since my vision of the game kinda a lot more different than majority of the players

[glacial sphinx]

I do think the difficulty of the blue crypt felt like a nice middle ground between inferno and normal crypt

[feral rock]

Also stair appearing sooner could possible be nice change. I just liked the fact that solos had a more tricky time getting all juicy loot and just leaving

[obtuse lichen]

Actually the best balancing for second wind might be making it 2 charges but 1 charge restores 25% hp over 8 seconds and they cannot be stacked on top of each other

[feral rock]

Inferno being the 2nd floor of crypt?

[wary junco]

Atleast then you are selfaware of your diffrent view of things. But yeah some of your ideas actively work against the base idea of the game and your own statements. Previously you stated the freedom of POE but in the next comment you want to extremly limit the players options... doesnt make much sense atleast from my perspective

[glacial sphinx]

Right

[wary junco]

You see, that is a proper suggestion. Even though i believe second wind is completly fine as it is.

[feral rock]

I see. Well I never tried much inferno. This patch I mostly went Ruins and High Roller

[obtuse lichen]

i do be like that sometimes

[wary junco]

Aslong you are selfaware 🙂 and you accept it we all good. If i make a point that doesnt make sense out of your perspective ... lets talk about it. 🙂

[obtuse lichen]

its probably fine on paper but by looking at the other skills vast majority of them needs a huge buff or just nerf to second wind
whats easier in your opinion?
Buffing every other skill or reworking superior ones?

[wary junco]

I'd always say buff the ones that underperform. It is always better to make new toys attractive then taking away a toy and make it worse and give it back

[feral rock]

I kinda don't like the wall jump as a replacement to double jump. First from a developer perspective that might require a lot more work than just tweaking double jump. Also, what is considered a wall. What direction does the jump allows you to jump from the wall.

[obtuse lichen]

probably but its harder to implement as well since you dont know actual power of the other skills just because no one was running them before

[wary junco]

For example for victory strike, make the enemys be outlined with a red line if the next melee dmg hit with the bonus dmg would kill it. Baaam skill got way better for the common playerbase

[pseudo olive]

Hi bros, I can't log in to the game, do I need to register somewhere?

[obtuse lichen]

Playtest ended 5 days ago

[wary junco]

Game is offline, playtest over.

[pseudo olive]

so when will it be released

[wary junco]

You might say "Yeah but the defs are quite against the fact of giving meta information about healthstates stats and so on." Then its a valid point, considering that the devs on purpose want to do it like thst

But then you simply have to find a way to buff the skill, before gutting others

[obtuse lichen]

victory strike needs to refresh cooldown on kill and also restore like 5% hp from mob and 15% against players to make it usable

[wary junco]

Buffing the dmg bonus would make it easier to use in pve and pvp. Buffing it hp gain would motivate players more to be intellegent about the last Hits

[glacial sphinx]

I'd say just make victory strike work as long as the target dies within 3 seconds or something is enough of a buff

[wary junco]

You see, refreshing the cooldown makes it already strong enough. That would be a huge buff to it, maybe even way to strong considering you would need no meds anymore.... which would give fighter a major advantage

[glacial sphinx]

refreshing the CD is way too good

[wary junco]

That is also a good way of handling it, give it a specific timeframe.

I actualy didnt test it, did it only work on melee weapons or also on bows?

Because the ability itself if it synergises with bows would not even need a buff. Since killing somwthing with a bow is easily done without taking dmg

Which would require you to run all weapons, but yeah... which fighter doesnt do that anyway

[obtuse lichen]

adding time frame is a nice idea

[wary junco]

I never realy bothered with fighter abilities more then Sprint and second wind, what kind of abilities do they have and victory strike

[obtuse lichen]

taunt

adrenaline rush

[wary junco]

A taunt? Does it have any kind of pvp applicability?

[obtuse lichen]

yes it increases your armor i managed to get 95% reduction just by using green gear with shield and taunt

[wary junco]

For what period of time?

[obtuse lichen]

I think 8 seconds

i was running sprint/second wind + taunt

[wary junco]

Yeah okay, i would have guessed 8 secs. I personaly would design it diffrently but it makes sense how it is

[obtuse lichen]

was using second wind if had no cleric

[wary junco]

I'd rather would have designed it like the barb fear which does 25% dmg reduction

[obtuse lichen]

it might make it a lot more busted

[wary junco]

But i can see why they didnt do it. They simply want the fighter to be more of the plate person

[obtuse lichen]

just because if you already have 95% reduction and on top of that enemies weapons deal 25% less
can you imagine that

[wary junco]

I mean to be fair, i'd remove the armor gain from the taunt and replace it with the dmg reduction

[real trellis]

Less than 10 I'd say

[obtuse lichen]

Even skills with penetration are going to useless against fighter

[wary junco]

I mean, yes they will have less of an impact. But they still would be good, considering that you can just block any armor penetration ability with a Single raise of your shield

But yeah i can see your argument and it make sense.

[obtuse lichen]

actually penetrating barb hits should go through the shield

[wary junco]

Thematicly yes, gameplaywise HELL NO

[obtuse lichen]

but with less damage

[wary junco]

Fighters already struggle against barbs very hard

[obtuse lichen]

it might make his attack skill useful against shield users as well
Like 50% damage

not really i literally was demolishing barbs while being fighter easily

[wary junco]

I always felt like as fighter i have to block 6-7 hits of the barb to eventuely wiggle him down with my 7-10 falcion cuts

[obtuse lichen]

Played on cleric and fighter this playtest mostly and it was pretty satisfying since they made armor curve more linear

[wary junco]

I mainly played fighter and the moment i saw a barb i knew iam dead as soon he reaches me

[obtuse lichen]

Managed to get 60% to 50% dmg reduction on cleric almost every run

People were literally tickling me

[wary junco]

Cause doesnt care what gear i have he could just tank more dmg then me in starting gear then i can do in full blue plate

[real trellis]

Not at middle-high armor levels, once fighter hits 75% DR that 150 dmg headshot is suddenly only ~37 dmg

[obtuse lichen]

its really easy to hit 75% on the fighter

[wary junco]

I guess i never managed to hit the milestones on the armor then. Because i realy felt bad playing against any melee classes

[real trellis]

a fighter with full blue plate has about 60% DR, with defense expert that's ~64%

[obtuse lichen]

While people were roleplaying with ls i was armor stacking with shield and arming sword

[wary junco]

Only moment i felt unkillable was the moment the enemy squad had rangers

Considering most rangers did like 8% of my hp per shot

[obtuse lichen]

shield expert gives 15% armor rating when blocking and its kinda busted with taunt

[real trellis]

At that point you effectively have 240 hp, assuming absolutely no boosts to strength or hp

[obtuse lichen]

Even if you get hit through your shield you take almost 0 damage

[real trellis]

And yeah you can get shield expert up in there and add on taunt to hit 75%+ easily with full blue

[obtuse lichen]

Nah its easy to hit 75% with green as well

[wary junco]

Fact is you cant tank the troll with full purple... i tested it and got 2 hit xD

[obtuse lichen]

By using cuirass hounskull and mostly plate armor pieces

[obtuse lichen]

Troll oneshoted me in the head when i had 80 reduction

[wary junco]

Kek

[obtuse lichen]

literally bonked

[real trellis]

Almost every attack from the troll has to deal at least 300 damage

[wary junco]

Oh yeah good suggestion right there those aimbot crossbowmen...

Hitting me through walls and corners in my head

[real trellis]

he'll oneshot you through limb damage reduction, armor, whatever

Once you hit 95% DR you can laugh in the troll's face though

[obtuse lichen]

every ranged skelly should have shot spread

They all deadyes rn

[wary junco]

https://tenor.com/view/drawify-goal-target-archery-bullseye-gif-26800236

[real trellis]

https://youtu.be/3mjOUmTtpq8?t=343 Troll fight with a super-armored fighter

[obtuse lichen]

I scream everytime when i see the crossbowman skelly just to make sure everyone heard me because my teammates were oneshoted by him a lot

[wary junco]

I just took distance and killed him with a bow

[obtuse lichen]

ofc you can do that

but not everyone plays with a ranger in party or bow on the fighter

My mate tried to push crossbow skelly on the rogue and got demolished

[real trellis]

Crossbow skeletons will really mess you up if you don't respect them. But if you know what to do about them they're really not that bad. First of all, you want to try to put a non-breakable object between you and the xbow . This should be possible in almost every scenario. Get the xbow to come as close to the object as you can - they should move towards you to try to get an angle to shoot you once they're aggroed. Once they're close, dip out and then QUICKLY back behind the object. After you hear the shot, you should be able to kill it before it can reload unless your weapon is total doodoo or you are attempting this from too far away. In these cases, put just one headshot in on the xbow and run back to cover and repeat.

[obtuse lichen]

#d-and-d-suggestions message free cookie for anyone who voted

[obtuse lichen]

Their reload speed is something

and its not like he is solo standing it comes with a pack of other mobs as well

[real trellis]

I can't think of any situation where you can't pull the other mobs into another room or behind a wall and then deal with the crossbow skeleton afterward, unless you intentionally close the door behind you and run full tilt into a full room lol.

[autumn flare]

Sometimes you dont see that sceleton if he stay in some dark corner and if you play wizard you can say bye bye

[real trellis]

This is only really a problem in the hell map where they can be set up on some balcony that's pitch black, I've never had a situation where I absolutely could not see them outside of there

[obtuse lichen]

Pulling the mobs is not the best idea just because it requires some extra time to do and you already have limited time

[real trellis]

Moving mobs into advantageous positions to ensure you are not overwhelmed or ganked while fighting them is like 33% of the game.

[feral rock]

I actually wish Bards chaotic song was not only for him, but for the entire party. Then I at least feel useful in a party as bard

[autumn flare]

There is completely dark place when you leave that church-like room, and there is skeleton with xbow. My wizard friend died here like 5 times XD

[obtuse lichen]

I had no problems with the mobs in the previous playtest until they added axeman and crossbow

[autumn flare]

Yes xbow and axe skeletons are fked up, sometimes you cant dodge a hit from them or its really hard challenge.

[feral rock]

yeah, how do you dodge crossbow skeletons?

[obtuse lichen]

vertical axe swing literally goes through shield btw

[feral rock]

the ones in he hell/inferno just hits and moves too fast.

[obtuse lichen]

pray

[autumn flare]

Yes its 50\50 when it comes to close combat with axe skelet

[obtuse lichen]

its really easy to block horizontal with the shield but for some reason vertical swing just goes through block

[autumn flare]

When i spawn in basic gear as a solo fighter in room with xbow and axe skelet i know im gonna loose some HP or even die XD

[obtuse lichen]

oh i remember scuffed spawn in square rooms where you get to fight 4 skellies at the same time

and literally 2 of them almost always axeman and spearman at the same time

[autumn flare]

Spearman atleast deal low dmg, but this axe mothertoucher is salt im my eye

[obtuse lichen]

spearman is easy but in combo with axeman they become really frustrating

[feral rock]

Got in a room in high roller with spearmen and axeman combo. Managed to kill the spearman. Got oneshot by axeman. Hate that shit

[autumn flare]

I tried to hit axeman and instantly run and it never worked, blocking is 50/50.

Crossbow skeleton kills wizard on one shot

Those 2 need to be nerfed or removed

[obtuse lichen]

axeman attack speed is way too big

also he lunges

[autumn flare]

I mean this game is supposed to be hard, but dying from one hit from some common mob is frustrating
This is why i enjoyed playtest 4 much more

It was cool and hard enough without axe,spear,crossbow skelets

[feral rock]

Crossbow skeleton kills rogue in 1 hit too if Rogue has bad gear

[autumn flare]

Yes and imo this is just too much shit

[feral rock]

I feel his range is too long. I tried to fight him as a rogue. and I was unable to get out of range even with 1 hit only

[meager jasper]

Crossbow skellies are least of the threats to a wizard unless they surprise you. However the axe ones are always bs.

[obtuse lichen]

its because he has lunge on every attack

[meager jasper]

If he is going to lunge that fast it needs to be easily sidestepped

[obtuse lichen]

hes attack speed is just to absurd rn that what makes him scuffed

[autumn flare]

Yes he should attack like longsword skelet

[obtuse lichen]

Making him slower might fix the problem with dodging his attacks

@meager jasper bruh i already suggested it #d-and-d-suggestions message

[meager jasper]

A percentile is vastly inferior to the innate bonus of the book

• Unless it is silly high

[obtuse lichen]

Adding flat dmg stats is just bad for a game and balance

[autumn flare]

I mean its cool that basic mobs are challenging, but ye those new skelets sucks, they are strong and sometimes impossible to kill without loosing any hp

[meager jasper]

Perhaps but as long as the book works that way it would overshadow the staff significantly.

[obtuse lichen]

Stacking like +15 additional magic damage is not good for the game only because it makes cheap spells like zap oneshot people

[meager jasper]

We have the same goal but i cannot agree to the specifics. And I like the way gear gets degenerately strong later to be honest.

[pallid gorge]

Man i love 95% physical damage reduction

[obtuse lichen]

I think removing flat damage bonuses is a great idea and buffing % damage increase is a good way to go

Alright
Book 1.15x-1.35x(rarity dependent) cast speed 100% spell power
Staff 1.0x cast speed 120%-150%(rarity dependent) spell power
Ball idk since its state is good rn
and straight up removing flat damage bonuses
and keeping % ones for damage stats

flat damage just breaks the game too much

cheaper spells are supposed to be less damaging than expensive ones
that should make them more balanced across the board

Zap is already insane only because it has hitscan and small cast speed

[obtuse lichen]

its not about nerfing everything to the ground its more like making the game less stupid
with the flat damage bonuses
lighter weapons should deal less damage but be faster meanwhile heavy weapons should hit hard but be slower
adding % damage bonus makes weapon damage more bound to its type to not make it ridiculous when you have like 50 dmg per swing on arming and huge attacks speed
and zwei that sucks and everything even if it has the best stat bonuses in the world

[real trellis]

Axe skeleton and (allegedly) spear skelly do not work on the same principle as their sword-wielding brethren. Unlike the footman and guardsman, the axe and spear boneboys can't spin on a dime while in the middle of their attack animation. Therefore, when they start their attack animation, you just slip around behind them via their left side.

I can tell you from personal experience that this ABSOLUTELY works on the axe skelly. I did not have a chance to do extensive testing on the spear skelly.

[obtuse lichen]

the only flat stats that should be left is attributes and thats it
everything else should be in %

[meager jasper]

Sure but that is a seperate suggestion imo

[obtuse lichen]

ik

some stats like -30% movement speed penalty from item should be added instead of additional movement speed since you can already get it from agility stat

That will make buff more meaningful on the items

also removing useless stats like magic damage on the phys weapons and phys damage on magic weapons as well

And magical and physical healing stats are joke rn

imo you should see the base attack speed on the phys weapons as well

[glacial sphinx]

Don't think thats necessary and it makes all the stats less interesting when everything is so simplified. Imo +added damage should be tuned to be slightly better for fast attacks and +% damage rolls should tuned to be better for heavy attacks.

Currently the problem is that +added damage is generally better for almost everything

[obtuse lichen]

Not really simplified its just removes useless stats and makes the game easier to balance

[glacial sphinx]

It's easier to balance yeah, but not impossible and I think the additional depth can be worth investing a little extra time in balancing

[obtuse lichen]

adding additional damage flat damage as skills and buffs is already enough

It might be great to keep if flat stat bonuses were only dedicated to weapons but the are not

[glacial sphinx]

Since they nerfed +added damage rolls this playtest I feel the issue has already been reduced a ton. Outside of maybe locust swarm I don't even think its broken on much anymore. For now I can think of achilles strike but the rest isnt too bad

[obtuse lichen]

Im fine with having like +1-2 base damage on my sword but not on the armor

Armor should mostly give attributes speed or protection bonuses and not damage for you weapon

and maybe gloves can you give you some damage but not chestpiece

[glacial sphinx]

Think its okay if it gives a little, not as much as a weapon but don't see a clear reason why it never should outside of personal preference

[obtuse lichen]

cant really call it little

When every equipment has +1 dmg thats not little already

Its just makes faster weapons strong af when slower weapons gain almost nothing from it

Thats why im against flat stats and topping for % bonuses

[wind wasp]

Time for WoW style coefficients. For damage added

[glacial sphinx]

Well thats up to balancing right, if the percent damage rolls were say 10%, and added damage rolled 1 or 2 then assuming no other effects percentage rolls would beat out added damage on weapons/spells over 20 damage

[autumn flare]

Ok thanks, gonna try it next time, but i think that they are still a little bit too challenging as coomon mobs

[mossy grove]

but u can say the same thing for %bonuses aswell, slower weapons gain more from it then faster ones

[obtuse lichen]

because they should

[real trellis]

You only think that because the other skeletons have taught you habits that don't work on the axe and spear skeletons. Walking past an enemy as it attacks is very easy you're just not used to it because it doesn't work on any other skeleton.

[autumn flare]

Maybe you are right

[mossy grove]

but why should they, the game should allow u to have different playstyles, if u like fast weapons go for armor with flat bonuses if u like slow weapons go for %

[real trellis]

You need to be a little more aware of your surroundings and make sure there is room to pass by them but aside from that... Really quite easy.

[obtuse lichen]

It makes faster weapons superior compare to slower

[autumn flare]

But what about the xbow skelly that kills wizard with one shot? You cant always see them, i think they could have dmg nerfed by atleast 10%

[mossy grove]

but there are already both attributes ingame, there was a % and a flat dmg bonus removing one would just make 1 kind of weapon so much stronger

[obtuse lichen]

do you know the math

[mossy grove]

no i dont but numbers can be changed to balance the flat or % dmg buff, straight up removing one wont balance it

[autumn flare]

I think both the flat dmg and % dmg bonuses are fine, maybe flat dmg could be a little bit nerfed to not get more than 2 in an item but its completely fine as an atribute

[real trellis]

They trade higher damage than normal bow skeletons for only being able to fire once and having an extended reload. If you get domed by one as a wizard it means you weren't paying attention. In my experience each room has the same enemy composition (roughly) as it's always had, just some skeleton footmen are replaced with axe, spear, and greatsword, and some skeleton archers are replaced with crossbowmen. It comes down to game knowledge. If you're about to enter a room that has had archers in it in the past, you need to consider that one of them may have a crossbow this time and plan accordingly.

[mossy grove]

i agree

[autumn flare]

Yes attention and aware playing but you should have been able to make one mistake against common mob

[obtuse lichen]

Count hits per second + weapon damage and also add probability of misses
making axe deal like 80 dmg per hit not a problem since its slow also people have damage reduction
but making arming deal 50 damage is a huge no just because it has huge attack speed and its hard to miss

[real trellis]

🤷 They're scary but once I figured out how to handle them I almost never got hit by one. Can't say the same for my friends 😅

[obtuse lichen]

The best way to balance it around is to keep flat dmg bonuses on gloves and weapons and thats it

[real trellis]

I greatly approve of certain stats being locked to specific gear pieces

[glacial sphinx]

Well its already somewhat the case, certain stuff rolls higher on specific pieces. Think all stat on weapons is higher than on anything else

[autumn flare]

@real trellis I mean you are right, there is a way to outplay xbow skelet but if you dont you got killed by one shot as a wizard which is absurd, sometimes you run from other players, sometimes from mobs cuz you miss one spell, just enter a room with xbow skel and gg. The one mistake should be forgiven, especially when we are talking about common mob not a boss

[mossy grove]

not really, a way better way to balance it, is to nerf the arming sword

[obtuse lichen]

lol you are going to nerf the vast majority of the weapons with it as well then

[real trellis]

Yeah it's not a great situation, but I think wizards do get to start with a (weak) shield potion so maybe start planning on bringing more of those just in case.

[obtuse lichen]

The weapon itself is balanced additional flat damage thats what it makes busted

[autumn flare]

Yes or just nerf xbow skelet by 10%

[real trellis]

I believe there was a point in PT4 where a goblin could kill a rogue in one hit if it was a headshot. They nerfed that so they'll probably nerf the xbow skellys.

[mossy grove]

but u can say the same thing about %dmg bonuses and a halberd

[obtuse lichen]

whats wrong with the halberd?
its literally toothpick

[ember sparrow]

toothpicks dont 1 shot

[mossy grove]

it literally oneshots everything

[obtuse lichen]

Cant imagine myself getting killed by a halberd
since im playing on the cleric and fighter

[mossy grove]

whats ur main class devilman

[glacial sphinx]

Think red xbow skelly should onetap, normal xbow skelly probably shouldn't. Maybe it should be like 65 damage or something, taking a base wizard to 10 hp when it headshots. Honestly part of the problem is also starting Wizard gear being so crap its better to take most of it off in general.

[obtuse lichen]

I dont have main

[mossy grove]

what is that supposed to mean

[obtuse lichen]

damage reduction

[glacial sphinx]

The Magic Staff is terrible, the grey wizard hat is a net negative, the pants are a net negative. Only the frock is pretty ok

[wary junco]

It doesnt, you gotta look straight up when he does it

[mossy grove]

?

[autumn flare]

+1

[obtuse lichen]

do you know that you can wear armor right? or do you run naked and cry in chat everytime when you get oneshoted

Its easy even on the rogue to get 30% reduction

[mossy grove]

do you know that the dmg reduction ALSO reduces a arming swords dmg

[obtuse lichen]

Yeah you know that it takes less effective damage from the arming just because it hits faster

open the calculator

[mossy grove]

100dmg in 4 hits reduced by 40% is the same as 100dmg in 2 hits reduced by 40%

[obtuse lichen]

do you know that you cant just stay and spam attacks?

And dps output is still going to be higher on faster weapons anyways when armor reduction hits more than 70%

[mossy grove]

but that doesnt mean anything

[wary junco]

As fighter these new skellis were quite easy to kill. The only real annoying one is the axe skeleton since you dont have enough time to properly react to its sideswing. My tactic that proved sucessfull is spinning around the skeletons to the right and the moment i see their Animation for the sideswing i blocked with my shield

[obtuse lichen]

wdym

[wary junco]

Or just constantly spin around the skelli to the right side and Block constantly until he does his sideswing

What other classes can do? Dafuq do i know 😄 die i guess?

[mossy grove]

faster weapons have a higher dps, but slower have more burst dmg and more range, these are just differences again between different weapons, i dont see a problem with that

[obtuse lichen]

burst damage lol

[wary junco]

Faster weapons dont necessarily have higher dps then slower weapons

[mossy grove]

yeah probably not

[wary junco]

Its just about delivering the dmg in a specific window

[obtuse lichen]

also easier to miss with slower weapons

[wary junco]

Ofc the dagger will have higher dps in the first 2 seconds but after that the felling axe will have higher dps

[mossy grove]

but thats just a skill issue

[obtuse lichen]

felling is fast af
compare it to battle axe or waraxe

I can make a coffee while waiting for attack to hit me

[wary junco]

Waraxe if perfectly executed can deal more dps then felling but i get you point, i choose a rather fast axe to compare with

[obtuse lichen]

Yeah skill issue ofc bro you are the best sorry for arguing with you coach me

[obtuse lichen]

even my grandma can just step away from war axe hit

[mossy grove]

why tf are u getting so defensive all the time after typing a counter argument

[obtuse lichen]

or parry it with the shield

[obtuse lichen]

its a skill issue is a counter argument lol

[mossy grove]

it is, missing a hit isnt the weapons fault but the players

[wary junco]

I just sneezed and all my clothings is full of goo skill issue i guess

[obtuse lichen]

You clearly dont know what youre saying

[mossy grove]

no i am

if u straight up miss ur hit thats ur fault and therefore a skill issue

[glacial sphinx]

Don't think you're entirely right though, if a swing is slow enough to be dodgeable that makes a difference and its not just about the attackers skill. In general I wouldn't consider DPS too much, TTK is more important in PVP

[obtuse lichen]

if i miss my hit or it being blocked just because animation is dogshit or the weapon takes ages to windup its not my problem

[mossy grove]

i partly agree, but most weapons can be redirect mid swing and it doesnt change that slow weapons are easier to miss isnt a real argument

[obtuse lichen]

Try hit someone with battle axe

[glacial sphinx]

Think its very hard in general to compare weapons in this game, its very situational and TTK varies a lot between classes you're attacking. Their movespeeds also vary

[obtuse lichen]

meanwhile fast weapons give you more movement speed as well

[mossy grove]

true

[mossy grove]

slow weapons give u more range and dmg so i dont see the problem again

[obtuse lichen]

More range

Are you trolling?

[mossy grove]

wdym am i trolling, a halberd or a spear or even a longsword have more range then an arming sword

[obtuse lichen]

spear is not heavy weapon

[glacial sphinx]

Many slow weapons do have more range than the very fastest ones yeah. Rapier kinda is fast and has long range though, might be a bit OP honestly

[mossy grove]

thats not even arguable

[obtuse lichen]

and when longsword became a heavy weapon?

[mossy grove]

so a 2 handed weapon with -40 move speed isnt a heavy weapon, then tell me what are heavy weapons

[obtuse lichen]

well movement speed means nothing to only because ls attacks are fast af already

imo heavy weapon in DaD counts as weapon that has slow attack huge movement speed penalty but huge damage output
but ls has fast attack and also it can stack flat damage on top of it so i cant really consider it a heavy weapon
the only downside is a movement speed

zwei should be heavier alternative to ls and its dogshit

[ember sparrow]

@obtuse lichen what are you coping on your views have all been objectively false tf youi mean longsword is not a heavy weapon

show me a clip where you tank 5 halberd hits or even just more than 2

[obtuse lichen]

do you even use shield?

Or you like to gachi muchi facehug everyone and then cry about how he kills me in 2 hits with a halberd

and firstly i was talking about flat damage bonuses this guy just changed the objective of the talk

[mossy grove]

dO yOu EvEn UsE sHiElD
can u stop asking stupid questions instead of delivering a decent argument, most of ur points are straight up wrong or dont even have a connection to ur previous points. Every single one of ur arguments is: bUt i ThInK tHaT i Am RiGhT

[obtuse lichen]

I wasnt talking about halberd specifically

[mossy grove]

no u changed the objective because ur arguments dont connect

[obtuse lichen]

Look at the start of the discussion you are clearly just baiting

[mossy grove]

.

[potent thunder]

please keep the map crypts without this map without a doubt it is the best map that has it is both my favorite map and practically the entire dark and darker community

[obtuse lichen]

nah im done talking with you

[mossy grove]

thats because u cant type a decent argument to discuss

[grim fiber]

I agreed with you, but the idea of Ruins is fine, i think they just need to add more "red stairs" or portal to go to the crypts, even better if they are open from the start

[obtuse lichen]

I think ruins should spawn less gear and more utility and support items
so that can be a really good location to start without healing items

probably the best to farm like clarity pots and campfires

[grim fiber]

WTF never thought about it but it's a great idea, the loot will be tuned down for sure, but the idea of a higher drop rate for pots and bandages is a great idea imho, i like that
So people should always prioritize going for crypts if they want good gear

[obtuse lichen]

ofc

[grim fiber]

Make a suggestion

[obtuse lichen]

I already made a suggestion today for magic staff #d-and-d-suggestions message

[grim fiber]

And was a good one, i gave you my upvote

[drifting perch]

people downvoting my suggestion to toggle whether or not the arrows you're shot with are automatically added to your inventory are so braindead lmao. YES, PLEASE LET ME KEEP PICKING UP ARROWS WORTH ZERO AS A BARBARIAN! AWESOME! idiots

makes no sense, is the rp that my dude rips it out of his chest and shoves it in his pack? ooo this lowest rarity item worth nothing that my class will never be able to use sure will come in handy!

if anything you would just rip it out and discard it

[near oxide]

I shall make that suggestion for you. Honestly, pretty good idea.

[real trellis]

In a circumstance where you have to back off and heal you wouldnt want the ranger to be able to run up and get their arrows back. Sure, they probably have tons, but what if they don't?

[drifting perch]

i would rather they pick up a thousand arrows than they're added to my inventory for no reason

[obtuse lichen]

ok

[drifting perch]

it makes absolutely no sense for half of the classes to pick up the arrows they're shot with. and like i said, make it a toggleable option if it's so important to you that you steal their arrows

[rugged pilot]

Well 17 people would rather not

[drifting perch]

SO MAKE IT A TOGGLEABLE OPTION

[rugged pilot]

17 people said no thanks to a toggleable option

[drifting perch]

17 people be like huh? you pick up arrows that you're shot with? cause they never get to extract anyway

[rugged pilot]

17 people just don't care about the arrows in their inventory that they can drop with one click and drag or one bindable key

[drifting perch]

so i guess we should never improve anything, ah man! just a click away! come on!

[wary junco]

Yeah why picking them up in the first place is my question if you are a class that cant use them

[rugged pilot]

Personally I do not want it to be easier for rangers to regather their arrows and having idiots turn that off and see them auto drop on the ground, resulting in limited arrows becoming unlimited again

[drifting perch]

if a fight goes on long enough that an archer exhausts his entire quiver, picks up arrows that all hit you off the ground and still kills you

[rugged pilot]

A fight can be tense enough that 3 arrows in 3-shot ability can win it for them

[wary junco]

Arrows should not be pickupable until the target is dead

[rugged pilot]

they aren't because they go into your inventory

[drifting perch]

this is such a stupid argument, BRO THOSE 3 ARROWS COULD MAKE THE DIFFERENCE! so don't miss??? so pick the ones you did miss off the ground?

[rugged pilot]

All this because: I can't be bothered to drop arrows

[wary junco]

Exactly just dont miss, thats the point of the class just hit your shots.

[rugged pilot]

Yes, next patch melee classes will have a stamina bar and they will have to sleep after so many swings or blocks

The point of your class is to not get tired

[drifting perch]

look, if you can't see that there's absolutely no reason my class who will never use bows should be ripping the worthless arrows out of his chest and clogging up his inventory, we will never find common ground. A battle is not going to be won or lost for the archer solely by the 6 arrows i "stole" from them

[wary junco]

Can i get a teddy bear cosmetic i can snuggle with?

[rugged pilot]

to deprive every other arrow user in the match of arrows, to supply your team with arrows

understand it like 17 people did or continue raging, the choice is yours.

[drifting perch]

they start with like 30!!! they can pick up arrows which missed!!! you find arrows everywhere!!!

[rugged pilot]

You can drop the arrows!!!!!!

[drifting perch]

at the end of the day i only want it to be a toggleable option. hell, if those 6 arrows not circulating back to the archer matter SO much to you, make it so that the option is either A) they're added to your inventory or B) they just disappear once they hit their target!

[wary junco]

@rugged pilot do i get a cute snuggling toy while sleeping? 🥺

[rugged pilot]

I understand and respect your opinion to want a togglable option. I don't want it, and looking at your suggestion neither does anybody else.

🧸

[wary junco]

Oh dude imangine a giant teddy pyjama you equip while resting on the fire that would lit

[rugged pilot]

Mimic should drop cuddley toy to increase fatigue recovery

rare drop

[wary junco]

Or it laughs at you and gives you nightmares like Black ops 2 zombie style

[rugged pilot]

Sub 1% drop Giant teddy campfire cosmetic - From mimic

[grim fiber]

Personal Opinion, i usually pick up arrows for my ranger as a cleric, and it doesn't bother me so i don't think it is necessary RN

[rugged pilot]

@vivid glacier #d-and-d-suggestions message

You want the crossbow skele to be harder to juke and make it miss?

[drifting perch]

dont think anyone's making the case it's necessary, just a toggleable option. literally only a positive if it offers an option for both camps

[wary junco]

Honestly though the only thing i want is a giant lute with 60 basedamage to stagedive people like etc from hots. BONK

[drifting perch]

maybe people would have a reason to play bard then

[rugged pilot]

Not really much of a positive at all, adds a direct negative to leave arrows on the ground and make players less likely to share arrows with their team. Do not like it.

People have a right to downvote a suggestion

[near oxide]

Do suggestions take their time popping up? I did mine and it hasn't appeared yet D:

[rugged pilot]

The bot usually tells you if it didn't post

might be too long, or have filtered words in. Silly words in this server are filtered

[wary junco]

Yeah beeing flamed for ideas in this channel is kinda normal aswell. You gotta get thicker hide, most people argue with emotions instead of clear mind

[drifting perch]

people have a right to downvote but NOT to explain their thinking in here, cut that out!

[rugged pilot]

You can explain it, but saying people are noobs or spamming in caps because people downvoted you is rude and makes you look stupid

[wary junco]

How dare they voice their opinions about my ideas! My ideas are absolute and true and nothing could beat my ideas... okay my guy

[drifting perch]

i think i am entirely within my right to make up my own narratives about why people disagree with my suggestion lmao

[rugged pilot]

This is just foul rudeness, no need for it. You came in here to spam 3+ messages about people that dared to downvote

[drifting perch]

your definition of spam is nauseating

[rugged pilot]

Thats fine, I'll drop a warden ping next time you spew rudeness

[wary junco]

Thats what a delusional person would day ngl

[drifting perch]

wait omg no please don't call a warden over jesus okay you win i apologize for expressing my opinion

[rugged pilot]

Not just in those 3+ messages you opened with, the rest of the retorts contained cap spam

[wary junco]

Sir, this is not how it works here xD

[drifting perch]

lmao like 8 words in a row still expressing an authentic point. get over yourself. if anything, continuing to have this pointless bickering with me is more spam

[rugged pilot]

In full caps, followed and proceeding insults calling people braindead and idiotic, because they dared to use a reaction button intended to tell you if they like or dislike your idea.

Then messages later, saying "Guess I'm not allowed to share my opinions!!!"

Look at how foolish you look mate.

[wary junco]

[drifting perch]

was being sarcastic, obv i don't think i've been censored at all and still feel free to share an opinion

[wary junco]

Issue is typing is not the best way to get sarcasm across unless you mark it properly.

[drifting perch]

leo i appreciate you helping me through all of this. /s.

[wary junco]

Squint

[drifting perch]

hope that sufficed king

[rugged pilot]

They was on your side with the toggleable option arguement and probably still is. But how much of a spoiled goofball you acted like took them away from you lmao

[drifting perch]

spoiled goofball eh, aight. i'll leave by saying anyone who agrees with me is a pimp and a cool, and everybody who disagrees is a filthy mouth-breathing troglodyte incapable of nuanced thinking. please call a warden

[wary junco]

I mean, i can understand his urge to have such a mechanic in the game. But i dont think most of the players would even care about this option. Basicly means that programming it would be to much effort to satisfy very little ppl

[drifting perch]

i agree with that. was only ever a suggestion

[rugged pilot]

[wary junco]

Like specialy in situations where ironmace suffers serious attacks something like that is completly pointless to suggest

[rugged pilot]

Just pointless in general when the solution is: drop the arrows

ideally for your own ranger

[wary junco]

Well it isnt fully pointless. Just very very very deep down priority lane

[drifting perch]

lmao please remove shift-clicking gold and items into your storage, you can just drag! please remove selling items in bunches, you can already sell them one at a time!

[rugged pilot]

There is a bindable key for drop which you haven't bothered with

[wary junco]

Also that is not fair to compare it to. Everyone is affected by the Gold... the arrows on the other hand barely anyone cares

[drifting perch]

for the record i never said my suggestion was of the utmost importance and needed to be in the next drop before anything else lmao, it was only ever added as a potential quality of life update

[rugged pilot]

if anything I'd like throwing axes and knives to go into my inventory when thrown at me

[wary junco]

Fair point.

[drifting perch]

those are actually of value lmao i agree with you there, also they're a lot rarer than arrows

[rugged pilot]

Still think anybody turning it off would be putting themselves at a disadvantage

[wary junco]

Like not pulling gamma to the Max while plsying this game

[drifting perch]

like playing bard. what's your point? it's their option

[rugged pilot]

even if its just depriving their ranger of the arrows

We can assume its an optimisation thing for them to go into your inventory

So if they didn't, it'd be on the ground

[drifting perch]

but that's not the case because it doesn't happen with thrown axes and knives

[wary junco]

Is it just me though that doesnt care at all about those arrow changes? I feel like nothing realy changed besides rangers and fighters are a little bit more poor

[rugged pilot]

not yet, but ranger arrows just got a rework.

[drifting perch]

the axes and knives disappear once they connect with the target, can only be picked up if you miss. why do you want them added to your inventory?

[rugged pilot]

Yeah, but ranger arrows JUST got reworked, so it may be a new feature they plan to add to other ranged items

[wary junco]

Let me throw javelins

[rugged pilot]

Because it deprives the enemy barb and fighter of their throwing items

[drifting perch]

they're deprived already once they hit you though, without them being added to the inventory

[rugged pilot]

Why not if arrows can be ripped out and reused?

[drifting perch]

i'm not disagreeing with your fundamental idea of making them get picked up. i'm just saying your argument that you want to "deprive" the enemy barb or fighter or rogue of their ranged attacks makes no sense since they can't re-use it already if they connect

[rugged pilot]

That wasn't the arguement with throwables but its the same thing in principle. It should work the same as arrows exact;y

[drifting perch]

so what is this

[vivid glacier]

no i want the crossbow skele to not one tap you even on full gear

[rugged pilot]

If I'm playing Bard and I get hit with 2 Francesca axes I should be able to drop them for my fighter / barb

Just like you should with the arrows you don't want to pick up

[drifting perch]

agreed. do you want to respond to my message

[rugged pilot]

You dodge them by crouching

Making them aim for body would make them garunteed ranged damage unless you block

[lapis rock]

Was the next play test announced?

[drifting perch]

non

[rugged pilot]

That is responding to your message, they are still deprived of their throwing items in my inventory

[drifting perch]

so the depriving thing is a moot point then. they're already deprived. you just want to be able to pick the items up yourself.

[rugged pilot]

How is it? You want the option for them to fall on the ground instead of being deprived of them lmao.

[vivid glacier]

You can sidestep to dodge like with the archer skeleton, and the real problem is crossbow skeleton that's attack you by surprise and one shot you

[rugged pilot]

Press crouch

Don't be suprised by AI is all I can say lmao

[main locust]

skill issue it seems

[obtuse lichen]

skellies should have random spread imo

[wary junco]

Iam exited to see, how many people died to axe skellis. I want to see these stats

[rugged pilot]

Why? You can just crouch under crossbow skele

[obtuse lichen]

unless he shots you when you cant see him or physically cant react

[wary junco]

Requires good ping and very good timing

[rugged pilot]

Then you get shot or hit and die like any other mob?

[drifting perch]

we're going in circles, i already mentioned i would be fine with the options being "either they're added to your inventory or outright destroyed" too. regardless my whole issue with them is solved if the arrows are worth even just 1 gold apiece, at least then they aren't inherently junk for solo classes

[vivid glacier]

that's exacly what i say

[grim fiber]

I mean it is fun tho, there is a mob that can 100-0 you from distance if you don't notice him, it add a little bit of thrill

[obtuse lichen]

any other mob doesnt oneshots me

[drifting perch]

my opinion for the crossbow skeletons is they should be left exactly as is but maybe have more of a visual/auditory cue letting you know they're about to shoot

[main locust]

^^^

[obtuse lichen]

also their reload speed is kinda fast

[drifting perch]

the damage is dodgeable and fine as is imo

[rugged pilot]

Destroying them is not an option, ranger arrows are now retrievable, meaning they have to stay on you.

I don't think right now the code allows for them to stay on you without being in your inventory

They already do the skeleton grunt when shooting, and you can legitimately crouch when you hear them pull the trigger

[vivid glacier]

i think that aiming the body is fine because it deal enough damage to be punishing but not enough to end your run

[obtuse lichen]

Yes

[wary junco]

You are not wrong, but it does suck if you managed to get to high Roller hell alone after trying to survive against 3 teams after beating a centaur 2 man bats 4 archers and 3 axeskellis ... if you get oneshot by a skelli while taking the healthshrine after you sucessfully deafeated a 3 times dashing wingbat

[rugged pilot]

No its not okay to shoot body, because now you have no option but to tank the damage instead of dodge. Please read dude

[vivid glacier]

you can sidestep

[obtuse lichen]

sidestep

[autumn flare]

Yes 100% agree, one mistake should be forgiven

[drifting perch]

you can sidestep

[abstract swallow]

making the xbow noscopes an elite+ crossbow skele thing would be nice, but wouldn't let you learn how to deal with it in normals
big ups on them audibly calling their shots though

[rugged pilot]

You cannot sidestep a crossbow at most ranges bruh, crouch is 900% easier

[vivid glacier]

you can sidestep it

[drifting perch]

you can sidestep that

[rugged pilot]

Then why does it matter that it hits your head? Just sidestep it

[amber solstice]

They could go the EFT scav approach of having them make a noise when they aggro.

[grim fiber]

Yeah had same problem twice, once while looting a chest and another one while opening a portal last sec, but NGL when my friends got OS from nowhere and start malding it is TOOO fun xD

[vivid glacier]

the problem is if it attack you by surprise

[obtuse lichen]

Its unrealistic how every damn archer or crossbow skelly aims for head

[rugged pilot]

Why do they need to nerf a mob because you get suprised by it?

[autumn flare]

It kills wizard with one shot, you cant always be prepared, and sometimes this skelet is in dark

[grim fiber]

It's a matter of time, then you will memorize every crossbow in every room and double check for them

[abstract swallow]

them just not having a bowdraw sound makes them infinitely more dangerous than bow skeles
and with how fast and straight their projectiles go they will consistently cheese you through broken collision
I've seen so many people onetapped through secret door gaps/broken collision

[wary junco]

Can we all agree on the fact that the triple dashing batskulls are the worst?

[obtuse lichen]

They should have random spread

[vivid glacier]

because no other mob os you by surprise

[rugged pilot]

Your awareness is the issue then

[rugged pilot]

Dude no shit, the strong ranged weapon can headshot a man in cloth that is not paying attention to whats around him

[obtuse lichen]

They should randomly aim for your physical model not aimlock on the head

[vivid glacier]

i already know every crossbow in the game but sometimes you are fighting other mob and they aggro and you don't see it

[drifting perch]

meh, i think they'll touch up the indicators that the crossbowman's preparing to shoot at the very least

[rugged pilot]

All ranged AI aimlock on your head, every single one.

This is why you can crouch the goblin archers, archers, and crossbowmen

[grim fiber]

Yeah yeah can always happens and will always be sad.... but i still like the trhill

[obtuse lichen]

bro why you are so focused on the crouch are you playing dominatrix

[rugged pilot]

I'm outplaying the AI instead of complaining about it

[autumn flare]

But its basically stupid to force players to study maps and grind for months just to not get oneshoted by xbow skelet and still sometimes you will step on them when running or fighting different mobs. Why you guys fight that much against nerfing the xbow skelet for a little bit? Its definitelly too strong for low hp classes as a common mob

[drifting perch]

its a quick movement option everyone has access to lol, basically the fastest hitbox movement for any class. crouching is a fundamental part of the game

[pseudo obsidian]

what yall think about having offline mode to where its only pve solo/lan to where you can just practice boss mechanics and just explore the maps solo offline? that way we can always play DaD even if the servers go offline etc?

[rugged pilot]

I oppose any form of PVEonly content

The games USP is PvP Dungeon Crawler

[obtuse lichen]

Crouching should be animated and not one framed

[drifting perch]

now you're just speaking pure lunacy

[obtuse lichen]

I remember when mordhau had 0 crouch anim that was horrible

[pseudo obsidian]

yea but im not saying it has to be only PVE just an option to add for those that like to PVE

[rugged pilot]

That is PVEonly content and development time, hate the idea

[amber solstice]

The issue is just that every new attack they are adding is just getting faster and less telegraphed. It's not just same difficulty in a different way. It would make more sense if these were just the upgraded mobs as you go deeper. But putting the harder mobs in the starter levels just doesn't make sense.

[drifting perch]

i think all of the issues with crossbow skeletons become solved with more indication that they're attacking

[rugged pilot]

So its getting harder for the people that screamed and shouted for PVE content

People wanted more and more harder PVE enemies, they got it, they don't like it

[pseudo obsidian]

i mean does it take more time to develop? I would just assume that they could have everything the same just have some way of making it able to play solo not on the live servers?

[rugged pilot]

I just don't care about it, I don't want even a moment of dev time to go to singleplayer / PVEonly content.

[drifting perch]

asking for solo servers so you can run around and have your little lootfest is kinda stupid, like asking for an mmo to give you the option of an empty world so you can play alone

[autumn flare]

Because axe skelet and xbow skelet are just too op, doing too much dmg and sometimes impossible to dodge

[obtuse lichen]

A hate pve and mostly playing for pvp

[rugged pilot]

Axe skeleton: Move around it when it swings

Crossbow skeleton: Crouch when it makes the grunt noise

"too op"

[obtuse lichen]

imagine killing skellies for random loot if you can kill people with the loot of your choice

[drifting perch]

where do you get that loot bro???

[pseudo obsidian]

i guess if u see it that way it makes sense but it can be useful for exploring the maps/practicing bosses withot losing everything on live servers

[lucid root]

But you get rewarded for learning the hell pve mechanics 😏

[drifting perch]

yeah, the only reason it makes some sense is because of the dismal state of online connectivity and availability of last playtest. i think your desire would go away in the world where the servers are always online and run well

[rugged pilot]

I don't know what people would even do on a solo server after the game is "dead"...

So you've played for like 9 playtests and mastered PvP, killed bosses and more..

Now you wander around castle slaying skeletons with a Greataxe+9 alone

[grim fiber]

The game knowledge rewards you, i don't see nothing wrong about it

[obtuse lichen]

nonono my team kills mobs i heal as a cleric

[gloomy cradle]

Noooo. Brau'kul will never hit 3000 downvotes now

[drifting perch]

you are a fool

[wary junco]

@tribal patio howcome you think that arming sword lacks?

[rugged pilot]

you get 2shotted by regular skeleton, only wizard dies to one headshot. And you can simply crouch to avoid it, or sidestep like many people said.

Skill issue

[lucid root]

😭

[obtuse lichen]

@granite plinth no my iq is higher than 70

[drifting perch]

your argument of being surprised by the same chunk of code in the same spot every time is making me doubt that

[obtuse lichen]

its 71

[autumn flare]

Literally everyone knows it, but still axe skelet will hit you 50/50 cuz its bugged and hit with vertical strike through the shield i see you havent fought too many of them

And xbow skelet kills you on one shot as a wizard which is too much dmg for common mob, you cant always see all the xbows during fight or running, one mistake should be forgiven especially when we are talking about common mob

[tribal patio]

No no the Arming sword is an amazing weapon

[wary junco]

https://tenor.com/view/fool-took-fool-of-a-took-gandalf-pippin-gif-5998055

[lucid root]

People who dont know braukul is a mods alt

[rugged pilot]

its not bugged, you just reacted too late or got "suprised"

[drifting perch]

my mistake. carry on chad

[autumn flare]

No, read what i said

[wary junco]

Oh you compared the viking sword to the arming sword so the viking sword should be more like the arming sword?

[rugged pilot]

Again its not bugged, thats the blocking mechanic

[obtuse lichen]

Why do you even argue with pve gods

[rugged pilot]

It has a huge axe head that hits your head behind shields, look at the size of it. Your block hits the bottom part of the blade or the axe shaft and your head still takes damage

[grim fiber]

I had 0 problem vs them by just moving in circle, i don't remember correctly but there is one way you even dodge the horizzontal slash, with high MS tho, not sure with plate

[tribal patio]

The viking sword is so much worse than the arming sword when the damage is almost identical, but with arming sword being alot faster , has a great 3 hit moveset combo and good range. Viking sword is lacking

[drifting perch]

probably wouldn't call it a bug but the consistency of your shield's block hitbox vs their attack hitbox is certainly questionable at times. don't think it's good faith to consider the shield's implementation in the game flawless

[rugged pilot]

You don't need to be a PVE god to avoid damage from skeletons. Thats just average player

[wary junco]

Totaly agree, have my upvote.

[autumn flare]

I have recorded how i got shield, taking the hit on shield and it does dmg to me. I have fought like 100 of them and i can certainly say there is something wrong with axe skelets

[obtuse lichen]

try to avoid 4 skellies while 2 of them being axeman and spearman

[rugged pilot]

Skill issue

[drifting perch]

I got myself into this unwinnable fight and it's the dev's fault for making one mob too...strong? wait hold on what was i saying

[obtuse lichen]

what are you smoking

[rugged pilot]

Very easy, Mostly just run away and close a door

[drifting perch]

i'm just rewording the goofy stuff you're saying

[autumn flare]

TOTALLY

[obtuse lichen]

it was literally a spawn in the previous playtest inside the 4 squared rooms

you spawn and immediately getting harased by skellies

[amber solstice]

Just be a rogue and trivialize everything.

[drifting perch]

there is nowhere in the entire game where you can't solve the issue with proper awareness/planning/party formation

[abstract swallow]

that 4square spawn was brutal in the F1/B1 version
the only time I survived it was as Barb/Rogue

[amber solstice]

You could get them all to just kill each other with baiting their swings.

[drifting perch]

you're making this one room with more enemies than normal out as if they throw you naked into the lich king fight

[obtuse lichen]

yeah go learn how to play

[abstract swallow]

"Oh, you got out and shut the door before we woke up? lmao time to spear THROUGH the corner of the other wall and break the door."

[wary junco]

Bro that was the worst every time that happend i knew i was dead

[amber solstice]

The new mobs hitting you through walls and floors was actually toxic though.

[wary junco]

Specialy because there was a crossbow archer next door xD

[main cave]

i got one shotted by a red crossbow as a cleric while using a shield spell, the skeleton was hidden in a corner

[rugged pilot]

I don't get why people struggly with mobs, get told its skill issue and then get upset

[obtuse lichen]

I already noted for myself that its not worth to argue here with some people

[autumn flare]

That's why I've been playing playtest. Not everyone is born the best at DaD as an pve god. But i can certainly say the axe and xbow skelets need to be nerfed a little bit or changed

[drifting perch]

for the record i dont think its worth it to argue in here with anyone :> but we keep dancing

[rugged pilot]

Okay, you got outplayed by a skeleton in the dark, next game.

You also didn't get oneshotted unless you were not at full HP

[obtuse lichen]

they be like JUST GIT GUD

[abstract swallow]

I was convinced they didn't even do friendly fire damage in addition to having no 'clank protection' like skeles had back in PT4 (which also made them ignore blocks way more easily, especially as elites)
They do, it's just absolutely pathetic damage
it takes like 15+ axe skeleton hits to kill another axe skeleton

[main cave]

i was at full hp, it was a high roller dungeon, either red or black crossbow skeleton

[wary junco]

Because sometimes circumstances erase skill out of the equation. I have been there sometimes

[rugged pilot]

Well which was it. Black crossbow is not a regular or frequent enemy, neither is Red

[main cave]

neither is red, but it was second day of the playtest, regardless of that its not good gameplay to get one shotted by a element you dont even know its there while you are buffed

[rugged pilot]

Cool story bro but you should add dragons next time

[amber solstice]

They did, but the hitboxes seemed super wonky with the new weapons though.

[drifting perch]

leo the skill issue comment is meant to say you messed up to get yourself into that situation in the first place. there's always something you could have done differently, you never spawn in a match and are guaranteed dead

[obtuse lichen]

thats a good shit you are smoking

[abstract swallow]

there are some brutal archer spawns that can have crossbowskeles now on Coliseum, the one hiding on the outside of the cage is especially bad since he can 'see' three separate doorways

[rugged pilot]

People really say "I got cornered by 51 goblins and died, NERF GOBLINS"

[main cave]

they are adding a dragon as a boss btw, they said so in a q&a, the other thing with crossbows is you cant sidestep them at close range like archer since their bolts are way faster

[wary junco]

Well there is that room with the healthshrines and 4 squares that room means instand death in high roller since atleast 2 black special skellis spawn there

[obtuse lichen]

bro i cant stop laughing stop making me cringe please

[rugged pilot]

You can crouch under the crossbow and archers VERY EASILY

[abstract swallow]

well, you're not supposed to
I think anyone that had a slow load in Big Corner, Hot Spawn (at least they took the crossbowman out of the version with no spawn door in patch #2), or ANY of the goblin archer spawns in the caves can attest to being hit/dead before they loaded in

[rugged pilot]

I know they are adding dragon, that was the point of the comment lmao

[obtuse lichen]

Your nickname needs to be brown so that everyone can see you messages and get instant facepalm boost @rugged pilot

[drifting perch]

news to me. i'd agree with that then, didnt see anyone bring that up here tho

[abstract swallow]

it wasn't super common, but I had it happen a few times after the final patch """fixed""" passive aggro

[rugged pilot]

Skeletons love it when this guy walks into the room, its the only person they can reliably kill because he doesn't understand how to crouch

[drifting perch]

fair enough

[obtuse lichen]

ofc

are we playing osu?

[rugged pilot]

Wait till you see me block archer arrows with Bardiche, then I'll be Uber PVE Galaxy God

[obtuse lichen]

bro are you an asian?

[wary junco]

I will tip my hat if you can consistently do that.

[autumn flare]

Getting oneshot by xbow skelet as a wizard is fine? You leave the room and go to another or just run from some players, for that little amount of time he doesnt make any noise and GG @rugged pilot
Why are you fighting that much against nerfing the xbow skelet for atleast 5%? It is clearly too strong for a common enemy and one mistake against common mob shouldnt be GG

[obtuse lichen]

Even i cant predict everything meanwhile having 3k hours in mordhau

[rugged pilot]

You don't even need to be good to do it, they aim at your head only. Stand still, look up and hold block

[abstract swallow]

being able to longsword parry the crossbow skeles at midrange was the funniest thing in the world
they are so accurate and have so little dropoff that you can consistently block it by looking down and right slightly

[wary junco]

Never tried always was scared to be hit in the face 😄

[rugged pilot]

See, longsword parrying is PVE god

[tribal patio]

Longsword my beloved

[wary junco]

Wait you can actualy parry crossbow archers with longsword holy cow

[autumn flare]

Only spear

[rugged pilot]

No offence meant but 3k hours doesn't mean you are good at it lmao

[obtuse lichen]

nah bro dont wanna be cocky but i was a comp player

[wary junco]

Time to get killed more then 100 times trying to do that next playtest

[rugged pilot]

You are a ranger dying to crossbow skeletons?

Wizard cant use spear

[autumn flare]

Wizard

[abstract swallow]

Longsword is mid af, but it's more fun than Fighter's better weapons most of the time
hearing the sourspot of a mis-spaced halberd accel makes the mordhau player in me angry

[obtuse lichen]

clearly a skill issue buy coaching from me

[autumn flare]

But when i play fighter (my favorite) i only wield spear

[rugged pilot]

You are dying to crossbows on WIZARD??

The guy that can throw like 6x different spells to annihilate skeletons??

[autumn flare]

Sometimes you cant dodge and predict everything my dude

[obtuse lichen]

no everyone is an asian

[rugged pilot]

You can crouch every single time

[lucid root]

[abstract swallow]

lowgear/non-juiced HR Wizard has a lot of trouble with the crossbones since they easily aggro'd without LoS last PT and their PvE spells aside from MM all got nerfed
even if you place LS well you've still gotta do multiple casts

[autumn flare]

No you cant, cuz sometimes you run from other players, and sometimes skelet spawns in dark and doesnt make noise for a moment

Atleast once on 100 games you gonna get that oneshot from xbow skelet which in my opinion sucks, cuz its just a common mob

[rugged pilot]

Okay then you died, next game

They also aren't common

[autumn flare]

Yes but the game shouldnt end on common mob by one mistake

[drifting perch]

lol breeze you had a winning game but this doesn't work. imagine if the skeleton he's complaining about was an undodgeable meteor that targets only you and deals 9999 damage. can't just say "oh well next game" like it wouldn't be infuriating

[obtuse lichen]

@near oxide btw what about a suggestion that you were about to write

[rugged pilot]

Do you not die by mistake to a mob every single time you die to a mob?

Are you ever like "Okay, this mob is going to end my life, stand back, I am going to die now."

[obtuse lichen]

just dont make mistakes 4 head

[drifting perch]

literally yes

[autumn flare]

I mean you dont dodge any other mob and you live, just loose like 30-50% which is ok

[obtuse lichen]

its fine when skellies one shot you just be neo and dodge everything

[rugged pilot]

You made a mistake, you chose to run past a crossbow skeleton that you know is going to kill you. Instead of waiting for it to shoot and crouching, finding a different route, killing it with ranged weapons, or not running from the team in the first place, you die to it, willingly.

You choose to make a mistake. So what, you died

[abstract swallow]

yes, it's called "dragging the wraith and champion into someone else's teamfight while blasting funny sounds in VOIP"

[autumn flare]

Damn dude not everyone is having a map model with spawns of mobs on different screen

[rugged pilot]

You don't have to die for that

[abstract swallow]

[autumn flare]

I want to see you dealing with them

[rugged pilot]

I don't need a map to have played the playtest and have seen low crossbow skeleton spawns compared to everything else

[lucid root]

Dear god braukul is typing in make-suggestion

[rugged pilot]

The core of your argument is "I died to a mob that has 2+ counters and its "so common of a mob", It simply is not

[abstract swallow]

oh no

[pallid sleet]

YESSSSS!!!!!

[drifting perch]

norfindel if it makes you feel any better i would be surprised if they didn't nerf the crossbow skeletons at all for the next version of the game. you'll probably get your wish in some form bro ❤️

[pallid sleet]

That was a very mild brau'kul post, he's out of shape

[autumn flare]

The core of my argument is that, the common mob shouldnt be killing on one shot, yes its just absurd

[lucid root]

#wizard message

[rugged pilot]

Lmao yes please

#d-and-d-suggestions message
@tranquil leaf I'd love to spawn in with Halberd + crossbow every time as fighter, thanks. Its balanced

[pallid sleet]

the king returns

[autumn flare]

Just make him do 5 less dmg and im totally ok with that

[drifting perch]

you'll probably get something along those lines

[rugged pilot]

The core of my retort is, it isn't common, its a mildly rare mob, it has plenty of counters and only kills one class.

I also doubt it even kills in one shot, unless you take off your hat or took damage already. The moment you are prepared to fight it or have a lvl 2 hat you are fine.

[lucid root]

Double jump about to get ratiod

[autumn flare]

Ok whatever

[lone crescent]

Aren't crossbow skellies dodgable with crouch?

[rugged pilot]

yes and sidestep

[lone crescent]

If you don't know he's there just learn mob spawns.

[drifting perch]

i personally thought the idea of giving double jump a flat cooldown seemed alright. sounds cumbersome and inconsistent to make it only apply to walls

[rugged pilot]

We tried telling him there is sidestep / crouch

Then this guy will respond with "But if its behind me or in the dark I'll die to it by mistake"

[granite plinth]

Hello, guys. I made an excellent suggestion today like i always do but it seems the Eryk trolls will never leave me so please go and like my suggestions. Its good for game 👍

[drifting perch]

perish in flames

[pallid sleet]

Brau'Kul burns brighter than you could ever understand

[lone crescent]

Yeah, if i can fight 2 goblin archer and 1 goblin mage all 3 together no hit in the open as a melee he can dodge a crossbow lol

[rugged pilot]

Goblin archer also the same, I had big issues with them till I learned that. I assumed because they are short, the arrow would hit me if I crouched

nope, right over your head like all the others

[drifting perch]

the existence of complaints about mobs being op kinda makes sense when you remember that by the time you meet someone like a third of the lobby has died to throwaway enemies

i want to eat your first born

[lone crescent]

They aim for the head but if you are melees range they are too short and hit you anyway, you just need to bait the arrow by running with W at approx 5 meters distance from them then turn and hit, repeat until they are dead.

[rugged pilot]

Yeah, same with skele though, but skele ofc aren't short

[lone crescent]

I do this with Barb, faster classes can sidestep too

[drifting perch]

every class and player should have their own way of dealing with them but the outcome can always be 0 damage taken

[rugged pilot]

Still the case, everybody can crouch the crossbow, but wizard would be better off using cover to bait a shot and then sending them to another planet because wizard

[lone crescent]

Versus schele archers is mor effective to couch under them cause they can shoot twice

[rugged pilot]

I certainly would prefer not to even chance a oneshot (or with hat, I believe a 95% shot)

[lone crescent]

Crossbow skelly takes ages too reload, it's so easy to bait the shot

[rugged pilot]

I do not believe for even a moment that wizard with headshot reduction, base hat is oneshotted

even so, not suprising. He's an old man with robes on

[lucid root]

Leather cap youre down to like 5% hp

[lone crescent]

I saw a Rouge getting oneshotted in a video but was in Castle, maybe he was an elite skelly

[rugged pilot]

base wizard hat has headshot reduction though, its not great but it exists.

I have no sympathy for naked wizards being headshotted.

[drifting perch]

wizard's trash against mobs overall though, i liked the suggestion that spells should do higher damage to them. kinda lame to need to fight everything with magic missile

[lone crescent]

Crystal sword?

[covert stag]

Build true magical and its alot easier, also ya crystal sword

[rugged pilot]

Come on lets not say he's trash. Mobs have high health but he is in no way "Trash" vs PVE

[drifting perch]

chip away for your precious little 17s then, still believe it's tedious

relatively speaking

[rugged pilot]

Crossbow is probably the only single PVE enemy that can even threaten a wizard atm

[covert stag]

I feel like wizard just relies ALOT on equipment, or more specifically anything with magic dmg
And dont get me wrong, a wizard is terrifying if theyre geared

[drifting perch]

agreed

[rugged pilot]

Naked wizards can kill players with haste + fireball + lightning strike

even more with invis

The more geared the enemy, the slower the enemy. Wizard kinda gets advantage through that

[covert stag]

Oh god the invis players, honestly terrifying to see a wizard appear and shoot missiles at your face

[abstract swallow]

Declan's suggestion is good, at least as long as the gear can't be freely removed from the kit. Otherwise that's just a free 120+ tiles of stash space.

[lone crescent]

I'd like to see sword mage as subclass

[rugged pilot]

Legitimately fresh gear wizard is able to easily kill people with spells, sure he rely on gear to do big huge damage numbers but it can still be done easily

[lone crescent]

Right now casting with everything that isn't a spellbook is trash

[rugged pilot]

Automod filters 🇸 Laughter ??

For what reason lmao

[obtuse lichen]

crystal ball is fine

[lone crescent]

Oh yeah there's crystal ball too.

Then staff and crystal sword are trash for casting

[covert stag]

Crystal ball + dagger is great because you can get 2 things of magic dmg on 2 separate gear

[abstract swallow]

crystal ball needs a little less psuedoweight or animation slowdown tbh, unless they're going to make weapon swap times take longer in the future
staff and crystal sword need innate cast speed boosts (to offset the flourish) and their own innates

[obtuse lichen]

i made a suggestion about staff and idk about a sword

[lone crescent]

I'd like to see some magic that requires crystal sword to use, like shooting magic blades and stuff

[abstract swallow]

staff and sword need to not clank the casts, but instead act as attacks when casting offensive spells

[obtuse lichen]

i think increasing attack range and damage with on the sword might be good

[lone crescent]

Nah staff only needs more dmg

[obtuse lichen]

trying to hit someone with a staff is a roleplaying

[rugged pilot]

#d-and-d-suggestions message
@green veldt

I only say no to this because I want the staff to be made useful. Then wizards have no reason to no longer want to ever have it.

Just like other classes start with their default (that is useful) and then switch asap

[lone crescent]

Imagine a skill tree that let's Wizard use light armor to go melee and dedicated spells for sword

Can't wait to see subclasses

[rugged pilot]

With ignite it isn't bad

[obtuse lichen]

attack range still sucks

[rugged pilot]

also if you just hit people with 2 spells its fine to hit with staff

[abstract swallow]

it needs to cast AND hit at the same time
let me club a zap headshot or use a MM thrust for spacing or go nuclear with a melee fireball

[green veldt]

it shouldnt be that crystal ball and dagger is just better than everything else

[lone crescent]

Going melee with staff is just meme

[pallid vapor]

Can kind of do that with ignite/haste/invis. It’s pretty nasty but hard to use. You do a ton of damage but get 2 tapped as well lol

[obtuse lichen]

sounds like a subclass for the mage honestly

[rugged pilot]

Yeah but we do that by buffing and changing other weapons, not allowing mages to select crystal ball dagger from spawn

[obtuse lichen]

when wizard visits a gym

[abstract swallow]

IgniteShield is incredibly strong in lowgear/goblin caves
you can facetank any starter kit in the game while dealing 40+ damage a stab with a grey dagger

[green veldt]

my suggestion just says re-balance

[lucid root]

Tries to get wizard buffed, gets nerfed

[rugged pilot]

Oh you right, I thought it said let wizard pick

Upvoted

[lone crescent]

Yeah i know but if they make spells subclass related you can be a magic warrior with more hp and defense. Subclasses has unlimited potential

[green veldt]

that can mean make crystal ball and dagger worse or by buffing the other ones. whatever ironmace thinks is better

[rugged pilot]

Book is not bad because of stat increases

[obtuse lichen]

honestly you cant just say rebalance without suggesting the way to do it

[rugged pilot]

Yes you can, and he has

[green veldt]

I can and I have

[obtuse lichen]

ok champ

[lone crescent]

Book is better for casting cause you move faster, i think that's enough

[rugged pilot]

You gonna stop trolling in here at any point?

[green veldt]

its only 10 move speed tho its not enough of a difference to care

[pallid vapor]

Yeah. I also hope they make skill trees just change the play style of the class. Like cleric can either go healing side or damage side like paladin. I hope it’s not just stat increases. If they try to do that I’d rather them just scrap it all together. Which they’ve said in the past In one of the interviews that they aren’t even sure if they are going to keep skill trees so who knows

[rugged pilot]

Can be if you don't have good stat dagger and orb, or are mostly naked anyway

[abstract swallow]

I think they're hesitant to release the class trainer as an in-progress system because of how important it is to so many different parts of play
and they haven't even finished implementing all the basic stats like RSC/KNW and their associated mechanics (item identification, utility effectiveness, equip and inventory slots, weight and containers, etc)

[pallid vapor]

I think skill trees giving like tiny stat buffs on the way down the tree, then maybe giving a new skill or passive at levels 10 and 20 depending on which spec you go would be best

[abstract swallow]

small, flexible stat buffs (ie: +1 AGI or +1 WIL) would probably be for the best, especially as intermediary nodes
lots of stuff does also need to be made hard passive, Rogue and Fighter are the biggest example of the Perk & Skill system completely failing

[lone crescent]

For me they hardly even started making skill trees, it's a low priority

[rugged pilot]

don't feel great about the trainer tbh. Making higher levels even more meaningful over people just starting out is rough.

[abstract swallow]

They had a fully-functional class trainer prototype for the OG 6, but chose not to implement it yet.

[rugged pilot]

During playtest is fine but depending on how far the trainer goes, could be very rough on new players that get many advantages stacked over them

[lone crescent]

Or maybe they can make certain playstyle skill tree dependant

[pallid vapor]

Eh I mean you can hit 20 in 1 day of playing if you escape enough.

[lone crescent]

Like a perk for using dual weapons on fighter for example, a perk for crossbow, etc...

[rugged pilot]

This would be nice

Instead of levels, have it like specific milestones to be reached.

Do X damage with polearms to unlock polearm related buffs

[obtuse lichen]

btw i already suggested the way to make staff useable #d-and-d-suggestions message

[rugged pilot]

Yeah, more flat% based damage systems in the game, no thanks

[obtuse lichen]

When % became flat

[abstract swallow]

I think it would work well as a fail-forward mechanic for new players, and even without the accelerated EXP gains we have in the Playtests you can still crank out level gains by focusing on PvE kills and extractions. Levelling shouldn't be an issue, at least as long as they don't go full EFT on character progression and start cranking out restrictions on basic mechanics behind obscure/tedious requirements.

[rugged pilot]

% is flat damage

[green veldt]

I feel like it would make sense if a magic staff was the most powerful

[rugged pilot]

Fireball now does 15% more damage

[obtuse lichen]

Flat is +X not 130%

[abstract swallow]

as much as I absolutely hate to suggest the existence of such a stat, Magic Staff probably needs a form of spell efficiency

[rugged pilot]

It needs somethin, not % damage increase

[green veldt]

maybe it could charge spells a little faster?

[lone crescent]

@real trellis Hatchets don't meed to be strong for Fighters, they are weapons for Barbarian that Fighter can use too

[obtuse lichen]

1.15 x spell damage

[rugged pilot]

Thats how you make a good drop absolutely mega overpowered

I'll leave that to

[obtuse lichen]

Flat system is rigged in terms of buffing weak spells

[rugged pilot]

Naw its nonsense

[obtuse lichen]

Imagine having +10 additional damage on zap or magic missiles

[rugged pilot]

"make wizard staff useful by making it the best casting item in game"

[obtuse lichen]

Bro its still casts slower than book its just an alternative

[rugged pilot]

Considering 2 playtests ago we already saw people oneshotting with zap and chain lightning NO thank you

[real trellis]

Wow, way to miss the point so hard it's actually making my head hurt. The hatchet, overall, is a terrible weapon all around that is never used except as a stat-stick that is never actually swung, it just provides a passive boost when equipped with the actual weapon you're suing. The horseman's axe is literally worse than every single other fighter 1h, by a lot. But yeah sure leave them as is lol.

[abstract swallow]

hatchet does need a small buff, it's got the worst sourspots of any axe with its moveset and all the same motion values/substats as the other 1h weapons despite being weaker
just shave off 5% of its slowdown and give it slightly more damage
(and give it to Ranger too, it's a wood axe lmao)

[obtuse lichen]

yeah thats why im saying its should be % not flat

[rugged pilot]

You want +10 damage arcane missiles? It already hits for 10 - 12 times

You want to do 220 damage in one cast?

[obtuse lichen]

Are you hardstuck?

[lone crescent]

Yes leave them as they are cause they are strong for Barbarian bro

[real trellis]

For the cost of two passive perks the horseman's axe can be turned into a weapon that barely has more base damage when headshotting than an arming sword, very good and based weapon!

[obtuse lichen]

hello answer me please stay with us

[rugged pilot]

Yeah but he died to it one time

[obtuse lichen]

20x1.3=?

[rugged pilot]

When you answer me troll, I will answer you

[abstract swallow]

as much as I love blatant disinformation, keep it to the class chat and not suggestion chat

[lone crescent]

Brooo Barbarian can't use arming sword

[real trellis]

I'm arguing about a suggestion I made? Are you daft?

[lone crescent]

Horseman axe and Hatchet are made for Barbarian not for Fighter

[real trellis]

And they're bad weapons both

[rugged pilot]

On barb they are strong

They are not for fighter, if you choose to run it on fighter then you are playing around.

[obtuse lichen]

wait what?

[real trellis]

Anything is "strong" on barb they have thirty fricking strength

[lone crescent]

No they're meta for Barb right now

[rugged pilot]

Yes thats right, they are barbarian weapons.

You know fighter gets a damage penalty when not using Fighter Weapons, right?

[lucid root]

Time to farm some downvotes

[real trellis]

Only because 2h weapons are awful and they're the only 1h axes barb has access to?

[obtuse lichen]

horseman axe is literally one of the best weapons in the game only because its fast af and doesnt takes a lot of ms from you

[abstract swallow]

HMA is the best onehanded weapon in the game for both classes that can use it
top tier combo, fast attacks that reset on hit instead of cleave, and a generous hitbox that covers most of its own sourspot

[lone crescent]

Yes and they are Barbarian weapons, there's no reason to balance them around Fighter

[real trellis]

It is a tolerable weapon on barbarian it's legitimately awful on fighter

[obtuse lichen]

just dont use on the fighter since you have arming sword

[rugged pilot]

Guys longbow damage on Fighter is not good, buff it please

[lone crescent]

Hatchet instead has slightly lower attack but is faster and have less moving penalty

[obtuse lichen]

Literally fighter alternative to horseman is arming

[rugged pilot]

I picked up a lute as fighter and it did no damage, massive buff thank you

[real trellis]

Horseman's and hatchet are native fighter weapons so the argument that they're "not for fighter" is fundamentally flawed

[lone crescent]

They're strong af right now, what are you talking about?

[rugged pilot]

They aren't for fighter though lmao

[abstract swallow]

if you are talking down about HMA, please actually go and use it next playtest
weapons that reset on hit instead of finish their animation are incredibly strong

[real trellis]

I'm gonna have a fking aneurism

[lone crescent]

And Viking sword is native to Barb but is trash anyway, so what's your point?

[real trellis]

You're all so unbelievably willingly ignorant that it hurts

[abstract swallow]

viking sword is literally just HMA but it cleaves instead of resets so it's terrible

[obtuse lichen]

actually fighter is shit with every weapon because he is gear dependent unlike barb

[lone crescent]

Barbarian has perks for axes Fighter doesn't

[rugged pilot]

You are calling the most meta weapon in the entire game trash and asking for a buff

But we are the ignorant people

[abstract swallow]

that's a "Fighter is a joke class" problem, not a weapon balance problem

[real trellis]

And I will point out that I am not even asking for a damage buff or anything just a change of some kind

[rugged pilot]

You want the animation which is S Tier to be changed?

[steady cloud]

@real trellis why u downvote my suggestion ?

[real trellis]

Barbarian hasn't been meta this PT outside of chucking achilles axes at people and watching them run themselves to death

[lone crescent]

Yeah and Barbarian becomes OP as fk

[real trellis]

Because you're one of the oldest and most obnoxious trolls who only comes here to post garbage suggestions and honestly I was hoping you'd left the damn discord

[rugged pilot]

Its just rogue with 500% more weeb

[obtuse lichen]

whats your point

i played with horseman axe + shield on the fighter and its insane

[abstract swallow]

that's moreso because Rogue hardcountered Barbarian this PT, Barbs are still A or S tier they just struggled in the meta where Rogues and ranged kiting were king
they were literally BUFFED this PT but just like in PT3 the dominance of ranged threats (DJ+HX Rogues instead of Wizard/Longbow) naturally checked him

[real trellis]

How about hatchets and horsemans axes are, I dunno, cheaper at the vendors? Then maybe I'd have a reason to touch one as a fighter in the early game

[obtuse lichen]

what it already costs like 10 gold to buy

[rugged pilot]

LMAO he wants to use the meta weapon more often because its so "trash", right?

[abstract swallow]

vendor prices in general need a cut, especially for grey gear, and especially if they're not gonna buff armor until they redo gear
(med prices are decent where they are though)

[steady cloud]

Its not a rogue its a shadow ninja

[real trellis]

It's only meta once you're heavily geared as a barb and can pump the headshot damage over 100, before then it's not that great

[rugged pilot]

Damn healing potions suck.... Maybe we could get them cheaper or something...

[obtuse lichen]

guys i cant anymore im about to die from cringe

[rugged pilot]

[lone crescent]

+5 dmg and +10% headshot damage makes even a grey hatchet overpowered

[real trellis]

You're an absolute fool if you actually believe that

[abstract swallow]

hard disagree, HMA has always been the true meta for Barbarian, it was even viable while Felling Axe was bugged
10+10% movespeed, almost 100% faster attacks and better range than most of his 2H Axe combos, way more generous sweetspot, and can statstick with Hatchet

[rugged pilot]

Naked barb + horsemans is meta

even grey, lowest possible horsemans

[lone crescent]

That's why they can't be balanced for Fighter

[real trellis]

Then take them off the fighter's weapon list and give them the rapier

[rugged pilot]

LMAO

"I want to use rapier as Fighter because its better than the Horsemans"

[lone crescent]

Did you played Barbarian?

[abstract swallow]

again, kind of a Fighter issue
HMA is a good option for DWSlayer but that's also a joke because Fighter randomly has to give up entire armor types and is forced into specific playstyles for things other classes just get for free
(It is the BiS option for S&B thou, because you can block after landing the HMA shot if you don't buffer another swing)

[rugged pilot]

Rapier is probably the worst weapon in the game, hitting less than wizard staff -ignite

[abstract swallow]

Rapier got buffed this playtest, they just need to give it to Fighter by default

[real trellis]

a grey hatchet with those two perks deals all of 24 damage with a bit extra on headshot, not what I'd call op lmfao, but enjoy walking around with the slowest movespeed offhand in the game

[lone crescent]

Let's give everything to the fighter yeah...

[rugged pilot]

It hits fast as hell my brother in christ

[real trellis]

bad range, bad move speed, predictable attacks

[rugged pilot]

you dont need range its a headclicker

fast move speed without shield

Yeah predictable attacks but its not your main weapon so thats fine

[obtuse lichen]

nono give rogue buckler

[abstract swallow]

please do, I like the Longsword but literally everything about the class is like watching a Special Ed kid try REALLY hard to keep up in normal classes

[abstract swallow]

your terms are acceptable
🤝

[obtuse lichen]

imagine rocking buckler and rapier on the rogue to roleplay duelist

[real trellis]

Rapier got massively buffed in case you didn't notice. It also only suffers -13 movespeed, has REALLY good range, and has a moveset made for sneaking around shields

[rugged pilot]

Its still dogwater

[abstract swallow]

pure skill issue, rapier reset is some of the fastest 1h DPS in the game at incredible range
it's just not on any class that gets Buckler for some reason

[real trellis]

Better than your precious hatchet

[lone crescent]

Hatchet has a great moveset actually, horseman too

[rugged pilot]

Not better than HMA

[real trellis]

It's only great for PVE, but anyone with 3 brain cells and a shield has you locked in

[rugged pilot]

Horsemans absolute S+ tier

Dying to shields lmao

[lone crescent]

You deal like 70 dmg per hit with a grey hatchet

[obtuse lichen]

bro 3 is excessive

[rugged pilot]

Thats why its a secondary weapon. You aren't supposed to eggs in one basket hatchet

[real trellis]

You deal 0 damage when blocked by someone with 2 brain cells because your attack pattern is hilariously predictable

[lone crescent]

So any weapon you just rise you shield and ez? Lol
You don't win hiding behind a shield

[rugged pilot]

If you hit a shield more than one time in combat you are the one with 2 braincells

[granite plinth]

Guys i have another good suggestion how do i make timer go away? Im afraid i may forget it??

[obtuse lichen]

unless you have a team i guess but still cant just always hold the shield

[real trellis]

How are you going to manage to get past their shield rocking -55 movespeed bub

[lucid root]

[rugged pilot]

switch to my primary and hit their feet

or get closed, look down towards their back and clip through the shield

[real trellis]

55, that's as bad as a maul and everyone dogs on that weapon for being slow and making you slow

[rugged pilot]

How are you being defeated by shields like a skeleton lmao

[lone crescent]

Hit legs, jumping over, circle around, throwing axes? Lol

[abstract swallow]

just move into them and walk their block lmao
shields are useless in CQC if you know to just move into them and whack them with your sourspot

[real trellis]

I'm so sorry none of you have ever run into a competent fighter lol

[rugged pilot]

How are you being defeated by shields like a skeleton lmao

Why is your -25 hatchet taking up -55 speed malus?

[lone crescent]

In the time you swing an arming sword hatchet can hit twice

[real trellis]

oh I'm sorry I thought we were still talking about the "meta" of dual wielding horseman's and hatchet

[rugged pilot]

I'm sorry you get bodied by shieldbots

[real trellis]

I'm sorry you were born

[rugged pilot]

Nobody is dual wielding them, single only

[lone crescent]

Yes and you can just run into a fighter shield and attack over it

[rugged pilot]

only noobs get rolled by shields

[lone crescent]

Dual wield only for op modifiers

[abstract swallow]

you don't even have to attack over it if you clip inside and walk the block
you'll only hit for your 80% sourspot but it's way better than the 40 or 50 you get with swords (but not as good as Zwei/thrusting weapons that can just start their attack INSIDE the block)

[lone crescent]

This, you just run into them

[rugged pilot]

@real trellis reaction when enemy has a shield: Run away! Its a competent fighter, men, flee!

[real trellis]

Done talking to you

[lone crescent]

Oh no he raised his shield, now he's immortal

[rugged pilot]

I knew that when you started dropping insults because your noob arguments were exhausted

[real trellis]

Enjoy getting your head taken off by the first longsword fighter you come across omegalul

[lone crescent]

Man you can literally walk through the shield with hatchet or horseman and attack through it

[rugged pilot]

Thats me so I doubt it pal

[obtuse lichen]

bro you are not better than him probably

[lucid root]

I'll never get as many downvotes as braukul and its immasculating 😔

[rugged pilot]

Definetely am. He's asking for horseman axe price to drop in vendor, which means he's bad enough to need to keep repurchasing 13gp primarys

[lone crescent]

You still don't get full damage ok but the fighter can keep the shield up forever

[obtuse lichen]

it terms of arguing*

[rugged pilot]

He's typing even though he's done, he's coming back

[lone crescent]

Plus if you block an hatchet you don't see anything in your screen

[abstract swallow]

just because another man has capitalized on opportunity does not mean that you lack talent
and even if you lack talent, it can be made up for in skill and peristence
I believe in you, Borg.

[lucid root]

[real trellis]

Unless I'm missing something he's the one who started responding aggressively first, unless you count when I was talking to the other guy because I definitely was insulting him lol

[rugged pilot]

Don't worry brother I'll keep downvoting you, I'll always downvote you.

[obtuse lichen]

he always responds like that everyone who doesn't agrees with him he calls a noob

[real trellis]

Imagine that 🙄

[rugged pilot]

Not true, only noobs get told that

Never said it to you, just that skele crossbows can be crouched

[obtuse lichen]

people were simply suggesting tuning down crossbow skelly damage

[real trellis]

I was against it at first but I think as long as red skellys can still do the funny 1shot then it's fine. Never really had much problem with the xbow skeletons since I figured out their behavior but there are apparently some spots where they can hang out in dark corners and snipe you before you know what happened

[rugged pilot]

For what reason? It only benefits people that can't dodge them easily, like most people can.

Crouch or sidestep very easy.

[abstract swallow]

he doesn't need the damage tuned down, he needs a sound cue for when he's taking aim like the bow skeles do and for monster aggro in general to be un-flubbed
(okay, maybe tune it down like 2~4 points so wizard can tank one hit with his clothes on)

[obtuse lichen]

you said just crouch 4 head

[rugged pilot]

I just said easily dodge them on any class because its a universal solution to all ranged AI.... yes.

[obtuse lichen]

probably but getting randomly oneshoted is not really nice for the game

[rugged pilot]

I still don't believe a full HP wizard is dying to one headshot with hat

[lone crescent]

That's part of the game

[obtuse lichen]

he does

[rugged pilot]

You can say he does, I do not believe you

[abstract swallow]

I know I've had it happen with just hat+shoes+loose trousers, but I don't know about non-elites doing it to full default