suggestion-discussion

[hearty badge]

LMAO exactly 😂

[rugged eagle]

Just go rogue and sing through VOIP to get the authentic bard experience

[summer storm]

Bard is unironically broken in very specific situations.

There was one Bard who used to do solo Inferno runs and just make the entire room fight, close a door, play again; Rinse and repeat and clear rooms as quickly as a duo team.

Bard players are either romantics, or mental asylum patients that escaped.

[rugged eagle]

Yep deranged bard players clearing an entire dungeon in 2 minutes and then die to starter fighter

[summer storm]

Or try to RP with a Ranger who triple shot kills him immediately.

The downfalls of Bard can't be replicated by any other class.

[rugged eagle]

Bard existed to collect treasure for other players and then die to them

[summer storm]

Bard inverse NPC

[rugged eagle]

But somehow all the bard players were filthy rich something is going on here 🤔

[summer storm]

Bard Trade Chat was where all the black market deals happened.

People selling capes for 100g, then they resell them for 1k in Cleric chat.

[rugged eagle]

Bards were the real winners of last playtest they were billionaires

Class doesn't have to be strong if you can pay others to carry you with your fat stacks

[willow dock]

Suggestion: With the lute, every class should be able to play a different variation of a specific song (just for fun), similar to different instruments in Sea of Thieves, so that if everyone has a lute, they can play a song that sounds different depending on the classes of their party/parties members

^ Also this

[hearty badge]

Only for fun, if there's anything more to it than 👎

[hearty badge]

This LOL

I was thinking that maybe the aoe enemy disruption spell should be altered in some way in that, it prioritizes over enemy players first before NPC's. Or maybe that it should be a limited spell with charges that allows the player to single target charm a mob (excluding the champion and boss mobs) with slightly enhanced stats; it could be balanced by forcing the mob after the effect is over to ONLY target the user who charmed it. But this is not realistic given the way the rooms work, how Bard has to play music, and how npc movement/behavior is. Just spitballing ideas.

[thin herald]

Increase party size to 4, with possible map size being bigger?

[tulip hill]

they are already considering 4 man parties

[thin herald]

thats great, feels like 4 is a proper rpg party

[tulip hill]

yeah, 4 hits the middle for typical RPG style parties
reminds me of 8-bit theater's Fighter, Rogue, White Mage, Black Mage

but then again 8-bit theater had a few extra characters too now that I reminisce...

[abstract swallow]

4 to a party is probably pushing the limits of what's possible without a hard minimum to entry for the gametype
the difference between 2 and 3 players is big, but between 3 and 4 players is massive

[vivid sparrow]

imagine solo players against 4 mans now lmao good luck

[tulip hill]

fair point, though with goblin caves being solo only I could see them doing a larger map with up to 4 man parties

[vivid sparrow]

maybe the new snow themed one will be a a pool for 4 man

[tulip hill]

snow themed map? first time hearing about that

[lucid root]

fireball jumping, that is all

[abstract swallow]

it's a very funny thing to do with Barbarians, yes

[tulip hill]

...is that not already possible?

[vivid sparrow]

i briefly read something about it in some QnA summery

[lucid root]

🆙
🔥

its possible, but it should be meta

[tulip hill]

I feel like it would be better if they just gave wizard a spell similar to Jump from Dungeons and Dragons

[abstract swallow]

if wizard could get an anti-friendly fire perk it could work, but I also want Wizard to get stuff like Spider Climb and Jump

[quick blade]

Fireball actually did so little damage you could use it to rocket jump this playtest. get a couple of magic resist items and you were good to go!

[tulip hill]

Anti Friendly fire would be nice
Spider Climb probably not with this engine
and yes jump, hello my fellow D&D nerd

[unkempt sluice]

yo I know this wouldn't be some for this early on in the games development but I do think that a guild mechanic would be pretty cool. Have like guild leader boards, quests within the guild hall to complete with maybe small random rewards or maybe like a guild point system to level up the guild overtime that way you have to work your guild up from the start. idk, random idea

somthing*

[sharp heron]

!playtest

[tulip hill]

I vaguely remember them saying they were thinking about guilds

[unkempt sluice]

yeah I thought I did as well but I randomly thought of the way to build it up or something and wanted to throw it out. Could make the guild feel more worth it in the long run and help unite random community members as well

[granite plinth]

keep enemy hearts as trophies and can sell and trade them around. leaderboard people's hearts provide great bounties

[tulip hill]

How do yall feel about the idea of shortening rogue's Hide cooldown but making it so getting too close to a light source will break you out of it?

[tulip hill]

idk, I do think they should add more to do with the soul hearts but if you kill a leaderboard player they probably had some pretty good loot to serve as your reward

[unkempt sluice]

I do agree on shortening it but by doing the light radius they would have to then turn all lights off before hand so everyone would stay away from any lights that are off. Maybe have it to where the closer they are to the light the faster it runs out?

[tulip hill]

oh that's an interesting idea
See with the light breaking it I was imagining a rather small radius but still one that the rogue would need to be carful about, mostly to make it so someone could throw a torch near you to break you out
but if your hide timer went down faster the brighter it was that would still allow you to hide in a fully lit room but with a much smaller window of time to take advantage of your stealth

[unkempt sluice]

That way they can still Atleast pop out for a second if they’re in a dire situation. If not I feel like it would unbalance them too much ya know? But now also what about maybe introducing level weapons down the road? I thought I saw something about magic weapons but I also think maybe an ego weapon or soul ex weapon would spice it up

[tulip hill]

I have no clue what you're talking about there
like a weapon that levels up as you use it?

[unkempt sluice]

More as it levels up with each player kill or mob kill. Of course maybe a small bit more for player kills. But that way after it levels up maybe it unlocks a buff to its stats or gives you a passive

[granite plinth]

buff spiders so they can climb walls

[tulip hill]

that is some unique level stuff right there and I don't think I'm a huge fan of the idea

@granite plinth I vaguely remember someone reporting a model for forest spiders found in the files, maybe they would be able to climb up stuff

[granite plinth]

Also we should be able to stomp of them

Dealing x amount of dmg depending how much weight you carry

[tulip hill]

speaking of stomping on them, wish when you went to jump over them they didn't sometimes bounce you in a random direction, but that's just how the game's engine handles being on top of another entity

[granite plinth]

Sometimes it just teleports you

[tulip hill]

that might just be the game having a hiccup at the same time

[granite plinth]

have named weapons record the amount of kills it has gotten

[dense sand]

in previous interviews and I believe at least 1 QnA, they've said they plan to have guilds, and some guild vs guild activities

[calm dove]

Best rogue double jump balance I have heard so far is if they take damage the second jump is void.

[tulip hill]

like, between the first and second jump?

[calm dove]

yep

[tulip hill]

that is a very small window to lose your jump

[calm dove]

True but it would create some counter play

[tulip hill]

I'm still an advocate of making it a q/e ability, increase the opportunity cost of running it

[calm dove]

I'm almost positive no one would take it then. Just would be better options. The only way the would take it is if they could still get into places others can't

[tulip hill]

first off, I'd still take it
secondly, why wouldn't they be able to get into places others can't?

[calm dove]

Well maybe some would if they were looking to do pickpocket runs or something. If double jump were to stay there's no way they wouldn't fix the spots that allowed rogues to be safe and no other melee could reach them. That's just super cheese.

[tulip hill]

Some kind of bow: Ranger, Fighter, Bard, Wizard, other Rogues
Throwing weapons: Fighter, Barbarian, other rogues, technically anyone with oil lanterns but I'd understand if we didn't count this one
Magic with good range: Wizard
Really the only class without an at least decent range option is cleric at this point

Also there are several spots on the different maps that, while possible to get to without double jump, would be nearly impossible to get to when actively being attacked such as the 4 rooms with chandeliers

Look, is the Ruins map too easy to exploit with double jump, yeah
if they want to keep double jump they really do need to go back and make sure you can't play the floor is lava across the whole map
but double jump isn't nearly as much of an issue on the other maps

[calm dove]

Yea throwing weps hardly count ..there will be 3 at most on them most of the time. Also If they didnt' fix the ruins map rogues would still be cheese by taking rupture and double jump with that stupid crossbow.

[tulip hill]

okay, fine, even discounting thrown weapons Clerics and Barbarians have to avoid the rogue's nest while everyone else just shoots back at the rogue who didn't take the hide skill because they thought they would be safe in the rafters

[remote orbit]

I think they should just change the double jump to a wall jump

would still be a fun movement option but you can't scale straight up with it

[tulip hill]

you know actually that would be a pretty elegant solution

a lot of the jumps you can make on the ruins wouldn't be possible if you had to be near a wall

[remote orbit]

exactly, but you could still jump barriers and stuff and use it to juke in combat

but it wouldn't be as universally busted as double jump

[tulip hill]

unless you get caught out in the middle of an open area

[lost talon]

I have used the Cleric for the past 2 playtest it have been my main class very fun for a supporting class and does ok dmg but the weapons tht cleric have access to are not tht good comparing it to the others, The mace/morning star has a long swing for a little weapon very easy to block almost every time the first swing is a overhead and easy to see so you cant even swing more than once to get the last swing which is still a overhead but slightly on an angle. The Staff is nice and fast but you can bearly block with it do to one hand being raised in guard mode and the players being right handed so you almost always have to crouch to get the block unless overhand and the war maul has no defense so if and when u get hit there is nothing u can do besides backup but is very strong. Comparing these weapons u will most likely losses even with short sword or axe because swing speed with all of the being said i think a flail would be great for the cleric it can be a bit slower than staff but faster than mace/Morningstar with a bit of range it can be a one or two handed long flail or short one to use it with shield the dmg should go past staff it should just be a chained mace also thanks for the great experience @flat cobalt

[tulip hill]

I like it, Imma start advocating for wall jump

[remote orbit]

glad you like it 😄

[calm dove]

Yea that's also a great idea it would really be nice not to get juked as much by that double jump.

[remote orbit]

double jump is just too spammable imo, having positioning be important for movement is cool

[hearty badge]

👎 👎

[tulip hill]

Alright Ceeps, be more constructive
I understand its not a very good take and this person is heavily underestimating the maces but just putting a puking emoji makes you seem very rude

[hearty badge]

There, fixed it for you

[lost talon]

i see you dont like the idea can you explain a little why ?

[tulip hill]

thats...marginally better

[hearty badge]

The last thing Clerics need at this time is an extended weapon reach. The weapons they do have are great already, and with an array of spells (including the newest options), it's just not sensible.

[wide loom]

I think everyone has really different opinions in this game is because some people always play high rollers and some people don’t

Like some people don’t understand how good some classes are if played with good gear and an experienced player

[hearty badge]

It's the price they pay for having great burst, sustainability, armor possibilities, and now AoE damage spells 👍 The mace is an extremely good weapon too, because it's very easy to trade headshots with an opponent.

[lost talon]

thanks for tht /also i like the mace alot i but i feel for a ranged weapon flail can be good and not out of character or to op

[cunning sequoia]

bit of a short test, I'm not sure everyone got blues/ green gear on all the classes they wanted to try had to test some naked

[tulip hill]

alright
so the cleric has access to very powerful buffs and heals as the cost of their upfront combat capability
yes the maces are slow and predictable they are not suppose to be as good as a fighter's sword, they are a sub par weapon on purpose
when given a little bit of pre fight buff time a cleric can easily outmatch the other classes as they can be just about as tanky as a fighter with comparable damage to boot
its all about that prep time

[remote orbit]

this test I either had purple gear or no gear so idk if my opinion is valuable on this one lmao

[tulip hill]

for sure! last thing we need in this community is toxicity
also next time we get to play, try out the hammer
its can be a bit hard to fight with because of its very wide swings but absolutely chunks if you can get good with it

[inner thorn]

yes, without those he pops out in seconds

[tulip hill]

High risk gamer I see

[remote orbit]

its cause I farm cave troll with no gear then use the loot from it

[inner thorn]

i hoard gold because don't have any idea how to effectively spend it and when try loose it instantly)

[hearty badge]

[tulip hill]

ah, I didn't play much goblin cave this time because there was a bunch of mega looted players just slaying lobbies

[inner thorn]

i love to slay those with other players

[remote orbit]

yeah I think thats because of how short this test was

[calm dove]

I'm a wiz main and while I completely understand it might be the strongest geared class in the game. I completely believe it should have a starter spell book with staff for melee. The reason behind this is early game solo is rough. however one you can always afford a spell book it just feels way more fun to play.

[lost talon]

i understand that cleric is not supposed to be the fighter and can for sure win many fights with buffs and greats spells to help turn the tables i listed all the weapons not just mace and i only talked about the down sides of those weapons its just other classes have a range option that i fell can truly fit the charater

[inner thorn]

i fell more about shared inventory between characters so you can make gold on barb and without shrennigans get geared wizard

[tulip hill]

oh I actually totally agree
Wizard kinda has a design problem that they scale super hard but are complete garbage early on
devs have tried to fix it but have been changing things about the base class when the real problem is the discrepancy between high and low gear wizards

[calm dove]

Sounds great at first but there's a huge problem that would be exploited and ruin the games economy. That is bank alts. The reason why ppl can't always run the best gear is due to bank size. If they combined shared inventory it would change that.

[tulip hill]

ah, yeah, cleric kinda gets screwed in the range department
Judgment has a little bit of range to it and can be super powerful with gear but other than that any other class has options to at the very least deal out chip damage

something that they could implement that could give cleric a more effective range option is cantrips
how do we feel about giving the spell casters tiny baby spells that they can spam

[remote orbit]

they'd have to be very baby to not be op

[lost talon]

yea i just wanted to put a ranged option out there that wont break the game like locust did i can see as a cleric main it was too OP and was a well deserved nerf i 1 shot full teams so many times until the stopped it then i had 2 of them can could refill the spell with G /rest but i would love to hear only ranged ideas

[tulip hill]

first thing that comes to mind is wizard's light spell
make it so only one orb exists at a time (to prevent flashbanging people), maybe revert it back to before it purged rogue's stealth, boom now wizards don't need to worry about the dark ever and can just throw their light out whenever without worry of running out

For cleric, if we want to give them a ranged damage option that isn't too powerful I could see it being like Sacred Flame from Dungeons and Dragon
basically a small mote of fire that players could easily dodge but allows the cleric to at least put some pressure at range
or hell, make it a normal spell with a bit more speed and just have that as a higher range damage option

[tight kiln]

People had over 20k gold

[remote orbit]

as long as it isn't too spammable and doesn't scale up too much the sacred flame thing sounds cool. and utility options I could definitely see going in a cantrip slot

[lost talon]

i would say i can be out of character because the cleric is a priest like person i mean his lore is so harming ppl would not be something he does its his god tht strikes lighting when he does judgement so it would hhave to be somthing unlike wizards moves but fits because i do want a balanced game

[lost talon]

i like the light orb thing

[tulip hill]

oh well sacred flame, at least in Dungeons and Dragons, isn't a projectile that you shoot out
basically the fire is summoned above the target and descends down onto them

[lost talon]

srry im never played watched or seen Dungeons and Dragons

[cunning sequoia]

i hear its like battle tec

[remote orbit]

actually I might not like the light orb being unlimited, kinda takes the dark out of dark and darker

[tulip hill]

all good, I didn't explain it very well
with Dark and Darker being very inspired by Dungeons and Dragons I sometimes forget not everyone here is as much of a nerd as I

[tight kiln]

A light orb skill already exists in the game wizard has it

[remote orbit]

yeah I know but its limited casts

[lost talon]

i would say less of cooldown on holystrike but thats too op it blinds and does magic dmg

[tulip hill]

thats a fair concern
been thinking more about it and I feel like if they wanted to add cantrips they would probably want to have similar limits but probably come back over time

[tight kiln]

A light orb that just lights stuff up would never be used if it took up a spell slot and if it worked the same way wizards does then it would be op against rogues / if it did damage the way u guys are talking it would also be op

[lost talon]

what if it can make invisible ppl visible

[tight kiln]

That is what the wizard one does if cleric could do that and spam it that would be op

[tulip hill]

woof, this conversation is a mess lol

[tight kiln]

Cleric is in a pretty strong spot rn a lot of people would argue it is bordering op and could use some nerfs

[tulip hill]

Cleric in a group is very potent, yes, we are talking about potential changes that would impact their solo experience more than their group play

[lost talon]

yea thats why i advocate for a ranged weapon instead

but not a bow or anything thats op

[tight kiln]

It is very strong solo aswell. One of the better solo classes due to all the buffs and things they are a menace in goblin caves.

If u play around ur judgement to initiate it does well.

[tulip hill]

yeah but in solo play they have some very large weaknesses that normally are shielded by their friends in group play
if we added some options that you could take in place of other supportive options it would help make solo cleric more friendly to new players

[tight kiln]

Idk I don’t think it would get much use out of a ranged weapon in team fights they are buffing/healing in most engagements so I couldn’t see it taking time to attack people at range. In solo it would be good to have a ranged weapon but probably very strong and op.

[lost talon]

even in group fights or solo a ranger could or wizard can do a lot of dmg to cleric before they can even get close even with buffs the cleric is slow

[tight kiln]

Most classes have large weaknesses that are shielded by their friends in group play

[tight kiln]

In group fights a cleric doesn’t frontline so it shouldn’t have any issues with rangers or wizards. In solo play u have to make use of ur surroundings and shield to counter rangers and wizards. If you let them kite u they will beat u which is what should happen with a ranged vs melee class.

The best teammates for a cleric are ones that know how to body block / position correctly to protect the cleric.

[turbid ermine]

Tank cleric exists for a reason outside of duo memory buff bot.

[lost talon]

the cleric is always the target first or wizard they get the squishy ppl first in team fight

[turbid ermine]

To claim cleric won't be front is just false, depends heavily on your lineup versus theirs.

[tight kiln]

The only way a wizard should get to ur cleric is if they invis/hast ignite dagger into ur back line and catch u by surprise. Otherwise the only way is if ur frontline dies and u lose the fight

[tulip hill]

or you push up past a rogue, but that's on you and your team for the most part

[inner thorn]

Well there is a way to make limitations on inventory size softer and make transferring gear legally possible or go another way and completely restrict it. I personally like first one, because its too restrictive for classes who need a sets of shields and heavy armor every time, it will make them to trade a lot of time instead of just playing

[tight kiln]

Cleric front lining is a weak comp. Tank cleric doesn’t exist in highroller or rlly anything but maybe solos

[lost talon]

so because u have a front line dont mean u dont have to fight also i wanna have fun not do a job then if the fight goes on long enough ur spell are all out

[tight kiln]

Yeah that is one of the issues with rogue meta but u can adapt ur comp to counter it

[inner thorn]

no solos, i will prefer to fight geared cleric then fighter solo, becouse that often take time to switch between stuff and weapon

[real trellis]

Here's the IronMace class balancing method: Players cry about X class being busted at high gear levels. IronMace takes notice and decides the class needs a nerf. Instead of nerfing the ceiling of the class, however, they nerf something that effects the class at all tiers of play, making the early game feel like abject torture to play with that class.

[tulip hill]

depends what you are playing
if I'm fighter or rogue I don't want to fight a solo cleric
that judgement slaps if the cleric has gear

[tight kiln]

Yeah that is what happened with wizard extremely high skill ceiling class that made good players able to wipe lobbies solo nerfed it so now only good players can get some use out of it but the average player can’t play it.

[inner thorn]

Rogue. I dont give time to cast. I hear LOUD STEPS, go inv, wait for a moment and slap headshots

[lost talon]

right once the buffs are gone and the fight drags your not in a good potion as cleric

[tulip hill]

sadly yeah, but they aren't too concerned about class balance atm so I'm not too worried about it

[tight kiln]

Yeah that is where the skill gap starts to be created dodging unnecessary damage while still having dps output as a frontline and conserving ur spells while not letting ur team die as a cleric.

[tulip hill]

oh sorry, forgot there were other rogues, I play full rat on rogue

[turbid ermine]

Yet I hit the leaderboards as one. Qstaff exists precisely for you to more cleanly press an advantage, to remain fixed at the back is one of the worst decisions you can make, flexibility matters hard.

As an example you are a fighter, cleric, mage comp, find the same comp on the enemy, you get the drop on them. If you do not go aid burst the ranger, the fighter will kill them, but eat a trade from the enemy fighter as the cleric has time to reposition (2nd in walk order). Meanwhile if you burst the ranger or dive the other cleric for a quick judgement, you are already pressing your advantage harder. I ain't saying you should bodyblock like an actual frontline, obviusly, but cleric's damage ain't gonna be done from behind.

[real trellis]

I look forward to Wizard having 3 less knowledge next playtest and Barbarians having their agility set to 0 because IM seems to think Barbarians being able to move fast enough to hit people is the main problem with Barbs

[turbid ermine]

p3 to p4 to now p5 wizard is one of the saddest stories

[turbid ermine]

Barbarians were killing too many grey geared players therefore we have removed their weapon slots.

[tight kiln]

I disagree quarter staff is an easily abused weapon by good fighters/barb in a fighter cleric mage comp u should buff ur fighter. If u want to do damage time ur judgement with ur fighters engage so u insta kill one of their players. Fighting with a qstaff is troll.

[real trellis]

too real

[inner thorn]

i play those too sometimes, but i prefer to kill. Players always have healing on them, so if done correctly its net 0 on health and +gear. A lot of death on my side, but more skill for fights later

[tulip hill]

now that you mention it, I don't think I've heard a single complaint about wizard being too powerful, did they finally nerf them hard enough to take them off the top?

[real trellis]

Fighters aren't touching QS they have much better options in terms of light or 2h weapons. Barbs MIGHT use QS but it's 25 move speed slower than it was last pt and didn't gain any damage to compensate so it's less likely.

[tight kiln]

By a used I meant easy to dodge and punish not use quarterstaff cleric vs fighter/barb is gonna get punted back to the lobby

[real trellis]

Oh fair enough Clerics are kinda slow

[turbid ermine]

We are obviously diving after your duty, buffing, is done and if you consider yourself there's no necesary heal that will keep someone off death.

I have yet to see someone dodge qstaff and currently it's the only cleric weapon that doesn't kill your move speed.

[inner thorn]

mostly chaing lighting oneshot problems as i see through chat, nerfed a little bit. fireball damage nerfed significally

[tight kiln]

If ur in a 3v1 I could see but u could always be precasting heals and stuff going in with a quarter staff all ur doing is getting in the way 😂

[inner thorn]

also nerfed those hitscan ability, forgot name. not not used in pvp

[turbid ermine]

Precasting heal bot 🤮

[tulip hill]

I have stalked a 3 man for almost the whole dungeon in order to kill the ranger after a rough fight
team mates didn't have enough space to get all his gear so I got to take a bunch of it after losing them in the dark

[tight kiln]

Also the qstaff is wildly easy to dodge

[turbid ermine]

I find it easier to dodge every other cleric option, simply because cleric move speed almost kills their footwork outside of qstaff and warmaul is just area denial in it's current iteration

Can't shield blocl the second qstaff hit either if I jump and look right as it hits the enemy hand from the right

[tight kiln]

Mace shield is meta just for the increased armor rating + blocking capabilities also not a bad weapon

[inner thorn]

yeah i play in group a lot and whyle other players are distracted by fighter+cleric go behind and kill their cleric/ranger. usually it takes them ages to know what to do with headshots and switch to melee so they die

[tulip hill]

dodging melee is a myth
if a strike doesn't land that's the fault of the wielder not spacing correctly or not reacting to your movements

[turbid ermine]

Flanged nad shield total movespeed makes the cleric a joke to footwork, no wonder you saying cleric frontline bad if you are on that set up 😂

[tight kiln]

Not true dodging melee is basic footwork

[inner thorn]

can dodge using double jump

[tulip hill]

that's fair, double jump is fast enough to get out of range

[tight kiln]

I can post a million clips of dodging swings point blank as a full plate fighter. The skill ceiling with melee pvp is doing more dmg than the other player while taking less

[inner thorn]

nuh dont mind, he just need to learn

[lost talon]

good gear vs good gear is fair tryna dive anyone in team fight as cleric is dumb who doesn't know tht but every fight is different its not rock paper scissors

[turbid ermine]

Personal experience I guess, found sucess in hr with it.

[inner thorn]

yeah you never expect someone to jump on your head

[tulip hill]

my point is any movement you make that doesn't take you out of range of the weapon can be compensated by the attacker
you can dodge headshots but a good enough player can hypothetically redirect their attack to hit at least your legs

[tight kiln]

Idk I just can’t see risking the only player who has a res spell so that he can dish a bit of dmg with a qstaff

[lost talon]

rouge with the batman style

[tight kiln]

I mean if the attacker has a built in AI but not even the best players react to all ur movements

[tulip hill]

key word, hypothetically

[lost talon]

or a flanking wizard can also hurt

[tight kiln]

It isn’t rlly a skill thing in the way ur saying tho it is very hard to predict someone crouch jumping over ur swing while up in ur face swinging on u. Also by ur logic u could also dodge every single swing of an attacker

[turbid ermine]

Should read my initial arguments for avoiding rigidity. I mentioned specially:

• After your buffing is done
• Likely off neutral when heals are at most precast and your team can take some heat.
• On opportunity, you obviously do not want to frontline like frontliners do, but if you can burst someone with your fighter instead of pre cast a heal behind them like a bot, you are gaining dps on the party.
• You avoid frontline versus other frontline classes... obviously.

[inner thorn]

also how this spell works exactly?

[tight kiln]

Just cast it on ur dead teammate takes like 25-30 seconds they pop back up restore it with a campfire

[inner thorn]

my clerics (5) never use those, weird

[tight kiln]

Takes a lot of knowledge stat to be able to use it

[tulip hill]

the mouse is faster than your character's movements
because of the active hurt box, unless you move out of range, they could drag the weapon to your new position
either way, my original statement was hyperbolic

[lost talon]

yea i understand u are not just healing u stay behind the guy thats protecting you and jump the guy he is fighting in between heals

[tight kiln]

Usually only worth running in highroller

[inner thorn]

how many those gear woud be in gold?

[tight kiln]

U don’t need any gold gear u could do it full green if u built knowledge

[turbid ermine]

pretty much
@inner thorn budget blues make most builds rather cheap

[inner thorn]

i mean how many you need to spend on player market in gold (currency) to achieve corresponding gear

[tight kiln]

Usually people are blue/purple with good jewelry running res tho the jewelry is probably the most important factor for running res

If u just want res and don’t care about the magic power / magic damage then maybe 600g if u want good overall gear then 1.2-2k good probably

[inner thorn]

no i better buy 20 daggers

[tight kiln]

The cheap way is to do bosses for gear but money is fairly easy to farm I grinded money for 1 day and end with 20k from that and just pvping

[inner thorn]

still think drop rate will be reduced

[lost talon]

after your first couple of blues sets just save like 2k and save all candys to get lots of purple then trade money for candy even more purple then go to hell gor golds or beat the ghost king

[tight kiln]

Maybe the best money tho isn’t necessarily from the drops it is from the collectibles in the treasure pile

[inner thorn]

then lose those) killing purple are my most loved things

[inner thorn]

from here too

[tight kiln]

Actually the chests in hell seemed to be a bit overtuned this playtest and had a very low chance of dropping anything below green so the collectibles and gear in there was very good. It also had a oddly high chance of dropping phys damage gear

[inner thorn]

do you go there pre patch?

[tight kiln]

I went there all throughout the playtest including the last day of the test

[lost talon]

yea the npc drops were better

[calm dove]

O shit bois!! it's looking good! https://youtu.be/EuQ4x84lTDw

[turbid ermine]

Yet another over reaction by ironmace listening to players, p4 hell was kind of a joke drop wise

[inner thorn]

how hell works pre patch? castle->2nd blue layer-> hell?

[tight kiln]

Maybe for candies the chests were insane tho in a lot of cases more worth than killing the boss l.

[tight kiln]

There was no hell in normal mode prepatch u could only go via highroller. My team was consistently netting like 4k a run on chests sometimes a lot more.

[lost talon]

we most have had very different runs then buddy

[tight kiln]

Yeah ran it as a barb cleric ranger usually cleared most of hell and looted a large majority of the chests by the end of circle.

[inner thorn]

i think normally it would mean all those stages in hightroller too, meaning every time its ~25 minutes and need to survive every floor, especially 2nd with super strong crossbow skeletons and 2 dozens of mummies in one room

[tight kiln]

The crossbows u just bait first shot then kill as a barb u can just fear them mummies I was 3 shotting with a feiling axe

[lost talon]

i mained cleric wizard fighter mostly

fighter the least

[inner thorn]

they have ways to deal with them ofc, for example you can rogue inv just walk through them

just decrease chances to get there in global for all teams

[lost talon]

barb wasn't as strong as last playtest

[inner thorn]

there was a lot of complains, so no wonder

[lost talon]

well i will be back tm to advocate for the clerics flail tm GN boys

[real trellis]

Barb was hit with a nerf that made early game barb feel awful. I mained barb last pt but this pt I didn't even get to level 15 before quitting because it felt terrible and slow.

[dense sand]

1h and shield is faster than quarterstaff this playtest

[turbid ermine]

Flanged mace still shows as -5 and shield as -10

It's better than p4 yes, still not good

[dense sand]

the movement speed penalty for qstaff was increased this test, it previously was much faster, too fast a cloth/leather cleric could zoom and slap ppl with ease

[turbid ermine]

Really? I'm still zooming, was the patch the 19?

[dense sand]

they increase the speed penalty from day 1 of this past playtest

[turbid ermine]

Then something ain't adding up

[dense sand]

even round shield and flanged mace are faster than qstaff

[turbid ermine]

Been using qstaff all this olaytest when I could have run flanged and shield... My mistake

[dense sand]

qstaff is nice, especially since it gets way less hilt hits and has a nice combo

[scenic cedar]

give bards a flute that is also a dagger

[turbid ermine]

loved qstaff since p4, but the new speed kinda defeats it

[distant night]

quarterstaff was really strong as a barb, insane even

[dense sand]

The other issue is why use a quarter staff when you lose the second items stats of the shield if you are using a blue qstaff u are better off using a blue mace and blue shield for the stats alone

It's not like 2hand weapons get more affixes, so you are sacrificing a lot when it comes to green+ gear

[dense sand]

So damn good

[real trellis]

2handers do get the ability to roll up to +3 all stats while 1hs can only roll +1 all, but that's about it

[dense sand]

If you are min maxing it'd still be better to get the bonus affixes if they rolled well for your build on the 2 items over 1 item

[real trellis]

Generally yeah. 2h also usually have the benefit of longer range than 1h but there are exceptions such as the QS and felling axe which have very short range

[remote pecan]

@dawn grotto could we make suggestions again? A fun way of passing time until the Early Access

[real trellis]

At least let us bump Brakul's suggestion out of sight before he hits 3k downvotes

Also he seems to be gone and good riddance, dude only came here to post blatantly anime-ripoff suggestions

[turbid ermine]

or weird fetishes

[dense sand]

suggestion: rogue needs less perk options

[remote pecan]

I'm in favour of funny rogue perks, like ventriloquism: when rogues are in range to use VoiP, their voice is unlocatable and always sounds like it's behind you

[upper sonnet]

So I wonder what the idea is going to be for the Skill Tree? I know a lot of people (like me) kind of enjoy the current way the system works where you can just pick and choose and change your build on the fly really easily. My big fear is that the Skill Tree will force you to have to make multiple characters for each build which kind of sounds like a pain

[remote pecan]

I don't think that's a bad idea though, actually. The more characters you need to level up and gear, the more time you're spending building up wealth instead of just sitting on it. Games like Tarkov, Rust, etc. are hard to get into when people are just sitting on vast amounts of wealth before the server wipe, and managing multiple characters also gives people who hardcore grind things to do while they wait for the wipe. Realistically they will probably do a respec for something like an exponentially rising gold cost, or maybe a small real-world currency cost

[honest ridge]

im going to go ahead and say what we are all thinking... can rogue get a triple jump?

[upper sonnet]

ngl could be a fun buff for Rogue where they have a cool down for like 2-3 jumps but they can use them all at once. Bit of resource management.

The movement and ability to get away or jump down on people was fine I just think the main issue was just spamming DB and jumping over the heads of players to avoid damage. Should be more of navigation tool instead of them becoming Scout from TF2

[rose trellis]

Why not just slippers of spider climb honestly

[dense sand]

you'll probably be able to retrain/respec for a gold cost

[hexed raft]

Someone just suggest to add more voice lines to other classes like Cleric, Mica Vista judgement and barbs roar. Got me thinking what would rogue be... I say you hear rat noises and you know a Rouge is near.

[cosmic thistle]

Killing bosses will always be more worth it. A boss can give a named unique that is worth an entire stash of gold. (paid for in candies, other unique or legendary items, or in rare cases rubysilver powder)

[tawny python]

literally not true earthquake + swarm + blind have better scaling dmg then all spell for wizard .

[wary junco]

What do you guys think about the idea of bard getting higher rarity lutes or even diffrent lutes to play songs? Let the lute decide which songs you can play with it and the rarity decides the quality of the songs themselfs with longer durations of buffs or more flat healing etc

[inner thorn]

will be ok. i personally think of him as a stronger buffer then cleric with downside of total inability to wear heavy armor and also being loud

now he have all proper abilities, it just breaks when you try to use them and dont scale properly with gear

[wary junco]

Anyone tested btw if the healing of the bard scaled with magical or physical healing?

[inner thorn]

not sure, because its broken. sometimes it heals literally full hp with standart gear and sometimes nothing at all

[gloomy cradle]

Buff Wizard

[rich mantle]

you have magical healing it scales with that tested it, physical scales with barb talent to life steal

[tawny sedge]

close general-chat its only an flamewar and u have better things do to than getting insultet for no reason. see u soon hope on steam♥️

[granite plinth]

guys it is poossible to make lfg no mic?

[lost talon]

cleric can not zoom there slow

[autumn flare]

How can i make suggestion on the channel above?

[frosty charm]

I wish we could make suggestions for this playtest, but seems like we will not be able to

[atomic mountain]

The suggestion feature is temporarily disabled, but I also hope to see it’s return soon. Tavern Masters are the ones who control that. @frosty charm

[summer storm]

Probably disabled to to 80% of the suggestions would have been people demanding Rogue buffs

[autumn flare]

I would love to see some training area, where you can open your stash and test items on training objects without loosing it or train fighting with your friends.

Also some more weapon types:
Sabre (could attack like falchion from side to side but much faster with less dmg and weaker move penalty and a little bit shorter range) which would be also good choice for ranger and bard as an alternative for rapier.

Morningstar flail, you know the mace on a chain, would be slow and hard to hit properly but give you more range than flanged mace. That weapon could give you some more attack possibilities with that range when playing tank (Cleric/Fighter) Also this is just one of the coolest looking medieval wepaons tbh

My other suggestion is claymoore sword (2 alternative forms of attack but you loose the pare possibility, slow and strong hits from top or heavy stabs) something like zweihander but more concetrated hit. Would be alternative for spear or halberd.

Some one hand wands for wizard which can make magical projectile ranged autoattacks. Those autoattacks could cost some mana, and do very small dmg, cuz it would be too op but can give some additional effect on hit (for example freezing wand with 15 mdmg and 5% slow on hit) That would give wizard some more supportive role in group fights and make easier to help your teammates take some guy down. Also some cool alternative way of attacking mobs on poor gear, you could decide to finish mob with autoattack instead of casting a spell sometimes.

[ancient briar]

We would see a lot of demands to nerf rouge this time 🤣

[willow geyser]

i think more healing items would be cool, like pies or something

[raw dune]

They really should think a bit about monetization. Ofc, we all ready to pay for the game, coz to be honest on the market no such a game and developers like dad and im. Beside this, for example, id like to have a hoody w darker prints. So i hope theyll start to make it while keep making game itself. It s ofc not number 1 priority for them, but could help with funds and will give a joy for some fans

[real trellis]

I'd buy merch tbh, as long as it's something tasteful/subtle and not something cringe like a png of on a shirt

[autumn flare]

Ye some kind of food which could be found a little bit more often than potions after destroying barrels and heal some hp in more time than potions.

[real trellis]

Y'all want wall chicken?

[autumn flare]

For example, and you eat that chicken and it restores 15hp in like 30 sec.

[robust bison]

i think windlass crossbow should get a buff or the crossbow a nerf cuz there's no point to us to use a windlass while the crossbow exist (2x faster to relaod, up to x4 with the mastery for between 4 and 10 less dmg)
windlass adventage is that just slow a bit more for 0.5s more

[real trellis]

With decent gear and victory strike fighters can 1shot wizards and rogues to the chest with windlass

[robust bison]

a really decent and with only 1 shot against a rogue with almost 0 armor and strenght

[autumn flare]

Imagine you play ranger in a 3 ppl party and you dont need to wield any melee weapon, you can have bow in one slot and windlass in other and keep it prepared to give a devastating shot.

[real trellis]

Rapier/Handcrossbow and Windlass sounds like a really legit setup on a ranger tbh

[robust bison]

yeah i was thinking that while watching a video of someone playing rapier hand crossbow

[real trellis]

(you could also use a falch/hand crossbow with windlass on fighter and have the falch/hand xbow benefit from slayer lol)

[robust bison]

but with a longbow cuz it cas use triple shot and even just shoot multiple arrows

[real trellis]

Triple shot is extremely good yes. People sleep on the shotgun skill, as well

[robust bison]

yeah that's why i don't get the point to play windlass

[real trellis]

I point blanked a barb with the shotgun and oneshot him in pt4

[robust bison]

bows have a skill that make em rly strong and stock crossbow have a skill that make itr reload it so fast

[robust bison]

yeah but multi shot that rly situationnal (mostly seen for cave troll )

[real trellis]

tbh rangers have so many good passives it's hard to choose

[robust bison]

i didn't really played ranger last playtest but yeah just that it really make the ranger specialised in crossbows or bows

[real trellis]

It's hard to say no to the spear passive because that bumps your strength by 10

10 STR is HUGE when ranger starts with 10. And the spear is a great weapon in the first place.

[robust bison]

for fuck sake yes it's just overpowered 💀 around 15/20 more hp and so much physical dmg for free

[real trellis]

I mean at least you don't get to apply it to anything but your spear's damage (and your health while holding it) but yeah it makes you an actual threat in melee

[robust bison]

while the spear is god damn so strong

[abstract swallow]

spear is like the #2 or #3 weapon in the game, only poleaxe and quarterstaff really compete

[real trellis]

Base ranger does more damage with a spear than a base fighter

[autumn flare]

spear is one of the best weapons, especially on low gear cuz you can get all mobs without loosing hp

[real trellis]

I love spears because they make it so easy to kill zombies without them farting all over the place

[autumn flare]

Ye

[abstract swallow]

that said I almost never take Spear into HR runs unless I'm super low on gear
it's an amazing budget option for Low Roller though, makes your PvE clear so much faster and deals with low-gear players incredibly well

[robust bison]

pt4 i used to like qs as a cleric but on pt5 i saw how weak it was against shield (or i'm jus tbad af idk xD)

[autumn flare]

When someone wields shield and defends his head you can always stab legs with a spear

[real trellis]

They slapped 25 more movespeed penalty on it

[robust bison]

on qs?

[real trellis]

Yeah, PT4 it was -10, PT5 it was -35

[abstract swallow]

yeah the PT4 version was hilariously overpowered

[robust bison]

aaaaaah i getr it know i feet like there was something that chanegd on it like the 1st time i used it i said to my friend"i'm frickin' sure they nerfed it i can feel it ut idk where"

[abstract swallow]

iirc it got 5~10% slowdown on its animations and 25 flat penalty
it's still BiS for squishies, but it's no repalcement for horseman's axe anymore

[real trellis]

It has very low damage for a 2h weapon, low range, and an extremely blockable combo

The only reason it was "OP" is that people would panic and try to run away and barbs would just run them down and hit them in the back

[abstract swallow]

the range is very deceptive if you can tilt your camera, you can outspace the shorter arming sword/falchion swings with it

[robust bison]

yeah i used to only go flanged/morning star with round/heater when i legit feel it was nerfed

[real trellis]

And let me tell you any weapon can kill easily if you're hitting someone in the back of the head lol

[robust bison]

the spear can do it xD

[real trellis]

People were mad because it let barbarians have a decent movespeed without having to rely on a buffball for haste

[robust bison]

yeah but it amost halves their dmg

[abstract swallow]

it straight up outsped and out-damaged Horseman's Axe, which was absolute insanity

[real trellis]

Yes, but it couldn't benefit from axe spec like horseman's could which would bring the damage up to that level

[abstract swallow]

it's not like Barb is at a deficit of fantastic perks to run without axes, especially with a weapon that good

[robust bison]

btw by speaking abt horseman why could it be played with barb?

[real trellis]

it also didn't have a good attack pattern for headshots like horseman's

[abstract swallow]

horseman's is the best non-thrust moveset in the game, no argument there

[robust bison]

never played it so don't know the patern

[real trellis]

There's a reason the most juiced barbs in pt4 were running around with horsemans

[abstract swallow]

most juiced barbs have been running HMA or HMA+Hatchet since they were introduced
it's the best axe in the game, sans the bugged Felling Axe that had 0 recoil

[real trellis]

I had a friend who was at the low end of high-tier gear with a blue horseman's that was doing 130 on headshots

[robust bison]

???? HAHAHAHAHAH WTF how much strenght did he got?

[real trellis]

It's more about the + weapon damage

Additional damage is nice but not effected by phys power, weapon damage IS effected by phys power

[dense sand]

cleric could zoom with the old quarter staff and all leather/cloth gear, any class can zoom if you stack +% movespeed

[robust bison]

the pb with "weapon dmg" enchant is that it can have the same stats as a 1 higher tier weapon but with 2 less enchant (1 cuz the rarity and 1 cuz of the weapon dmg enchant) so i never feel that it is really nice to get this on low tier weapons (green and blue)

[real trellis]

I had a very scary encounter with a QS cleric in the goblin caves in PT4

[dense sand]

smite ale divine strike qstaff cleric dangerous

[robust bison]

i'm more on judgement to not getting kited even if i sometimes play with smite

[dense sand]

the best is playing solo goblin dunegons with the meme build of no spells and smite+judgement, much lols

[warm spoke]

Can a gambling system be put in with a daily or weekly lottery? I want to be able to buy lottery tickets and have a chance to win big

[robust bison]

cuz smite is really cool yeah but if he runs a bit he can just wait the end of it

[robust bison]

the pb is playing without spells is even that can be funny and meme build it just underwhelming xd

[marsh salmon]

you got goblin merchant

[warm spoke]

not the same, you'd win money back. Buy a ticket with 50 coins and get 10k coins if you win

[marsh salmon]

They should make the inventory universal across all characters.

[warm spoke]

But you'd lose all those extra inventory space on each character

[marsh salmon]

If you have too much you can gear each character and save the rest in candy.

[abstract swallow]

I wouldn't be opposed to a universal stash, especially once we get backpacks/containers. The stash is very restricted by design, to promote a use-it-or-lose-it attitude with items and to limit the amount of resource hoarding and lootbloat accessible to a single character/player.

[dense sand]

yeah im talking about for lols in the goblin cave, the meme is that you can successfully lobby clear the gobbo caves pretty quick that way in starter gear

[agile inlet]

make diffrent tier potions different visually either in size or shape

[dense sand]

I mean unless you are color blind it's pretty easy to tell what their tier is

[robust bison]

btw except barbs can ppl derstroy the chests?

[elder heart]

nope

[robust bison]

even mollies? (i don't ask for the wizard fireball)

[lucid root]

Multiple choice suggestion, would you rather have wizards staff either:
A: start with the highest base magic damage, but slowest casting speed
B: give you additional range on range limited spells like chain lightning, zap, lightning strike
C: other/leave it the way it is

[bright sierra]

i would rather all spell casting items have the same casting animation time so i can use whichever one i want

[lucid root]

thats a pretty common one so i'll add that in there

if we get the make-suggestion channel back

[bright sierra]

a little extra magic dmg would be nice on the staff even if it had the same casting animation time as the book because of the movespeed penalty but then again you can melee with staff so maybe not

equalizing cast animation time is literally just baseline quality of life though imo and needs to happen before anymore changes to wizard

[humble oxide]

anyone know why the d and d suggestions chat is locked?

[lucid root]

Its supposed to be, theres another channel that was taken down where you write/edit suggestions and they get posted to that one

[robust bison]

btw

does phys power strength ect (except weapon dmg) affect bows/crossbows?

[lucid root]

yeah

[robust bison]

kk

[rugged pilot]

massive damage increase is the reason to use it

[queen lotus]

I assume once the backpacks they're talking about get implemented we will be able to expand the stash, or put shit in the bags and then into the stash.

[lucid root]

extra inventory space, movement speed penalty, cannot store in stash while items are inside, something like that

limited stash is kind of integral so i doubt they'd let us bypass that with bags

[abstract swallow]

I wouldn't be surprised if containers also lead to a universal inventory
larger overall stash but limited by being on 9~13 characters

[lucid root]

i think gold chests are the next thing

[abstract swallow]

I'm 100% behind the ability to store gold more efficiently as long as it makes that gold untradeable
adding an untradeable gold stash for merchants/fees is one of THE most popular inventory/trading suggestions

[lucid root]

having a lock function would be easy, middle mouse to lock an item so it can't be deducted from or moved

lot of rpgs have that already

[tulip hill]

Okay
this suggestion is more of a personal preference but I'm sure many people would agree with me
when quick looting, have items fill your inventory from top to bottom, not side to side
the amount of time I spend moving items in my inventory to make more space is annoying and this simple change would help with that a lot

[lucid root]

loot filters, yay or nay

[tulip hill]

I'm not sure what you mean

[lucid root]

like things that are in your filter stay highlighted

[abstract swallow]

iirc it's intentional because the size of bags can change and presumably in the opposite direction

[lucid root]

personally i'm against it, but its going to show up eventually as an addon anyway

[loud remnant]

was it just me or did they buff the price you sell treasures for? the prices were ridiculously inflated later on in the playtest where a single rapier was 800g for an epic with mediocre stats but on playtest 4 we'd get them for like 150-300 (if bad stats)

[tulip hill]

oh! ehh, I think its unnecessary. I'm highly visually impaired and don't have a problem spotting items I want

[tulip hill]

on the market or when sold to an NPC?

[loud remnant]

on npc merchants

[tulip hill]

wait, oh! you're asking if treasures sold for me because people were asking for more money for things, yeah?

[abstract swallow]

I don't think it'll matter much outside of inventory management since Item Identification is gonna be a thing

[lucid root]

i wonder how long it'll take to id something

[loud remnant]

Yeah basically inflation haha (compared to last playtest)

[tulip hill]

fair point
speaking of future features, I hope quest items are highlighted

[loud remnant]

Just to make it more clear, Did they make vendor trash (treasures like rings candles etc) more expensive when you vendor them? im asking cause i noticed i gained more gold overall this playtest and everything was way more expensive in the trade chat or did i just become better at the game compared to last playtest

[abstract swallow]

no, the playerside economy was just significantly worse this playtest due to missing 2 days of trade, more normal loot rarity, and lower population

[tulip hill]

maybe? if you were playing in the ruins map you were probably just finding rarer treasure since it had better loot pools

[loud remnant]

I guess it could be that i found way more white + quality treasures

[lucid root]

higher rarity trinkets definitely felt more common, kept getting exquisites

[loud remnant]

that must be it, on a goblin cave i killed some fighter and ranger and they both had ONLY blue treasures,i filled my bags and made 400 gold in one run xd

[lucid root]

maybe it was just ruins, thats all i played

[tulip hill]

oh shit really? I didn't play much coblin gaves because the couple times I did I ran into absolutely stacked people clearing lobbies with their full purple sets

[tulip hill]

yeah, on ruin runs where I actually looted up instead of just stalking people I definitely found green and blue treasure a lot more than last playtest

[lucid root]

were you playing rogue?

[tulip hill]

I am a rat at heart, but also some longsword fighter because I want to get better with parries

[placid zinc]

Suggestion - Cursed Weapons that can not be put in your stash or traded. Item is meant to be used until you die . Curses can very with things such as "You take 3x extra physical damage but deal 1.5x more physical damage" or "You move 40% slower but deal 15% more damage on melee hits"

[tulip hill]

yeesh, those negatives are kinda too much
make the curse too detrimental and people will just put away all their other gear and go into a run naked to get rid of the cursed item

[placid zinc]

You can drop the cursed item on the ground.

[tulip hill]

oh well in that case people will just bring in their normal kits and drop the weapon at the start of the match if they don't want to deal with it

[trim maple]

honestly the idea of an item you cant drop or put in stash is good just that in itself should be the downside, otherwise yea no one would want it

[placid zinc]

Ya it is meant for solo self found style rewards of people using items they found in the game. Sometimes the curse can work well with your build and sometimes you wanna stay far away from it.

[trim maple]

a sort of lunar items tier like risk of rain 2 has would be epic tbh

[tulip hill]

I mean, the idea can work, but the examples you listed are just death wishes

[placid zinc]

I mean lots of people take the glass cannon perks in games that juice your damage up 2x but u take 3x more dmg.

[trim maple]

imagine shaped glass in this game

[tulip hill]

I don't think shaped glass is a good idea in PvP game

[trim maple]

honestly feel like it would work, that and the beetle that doubles your health but halves your speed

[placid zinc]

I guess another way to phrase the cursed item concept is that it would be cool for items to rarely drop with embedded perks that make the item not tradeable or stashable.

[trim maple]

That would only work if it were like a really insanely OP item tho

[tulip hill]

Beetle? Transcendence doubles your health and but converts it into shields (making healing worthless)
You're thinking Stone Flux Pauldron

[placid zinc]

But it's an item that won't make its way into the marketplace or be hordable. It rewards self found gameplay.

[trim maple]

i forgor the item names honestly

Yea but it would also be an item that takes up space in your inventory until you drop it/lose it in a run

[placid zinc]

Just fishing for a way to reward self found item gameplay loop rather than sitting in trade chat for hours.

[trim maple]

If you're sitting in trade chat for hours, you're doing it wrong

[tulip hill]

every minute you spend on the market getting nothing done is a minute you could have spent looting the very gear you are trying to get

[trim maple]

^
its all about finding a good enough price that ppl will buy within a few minutes and not selling items no one wants

[placid zinc]

Bind on Pickup items would work well in the game is all I'm saying.

[hearty badge]

Being on the marketplace isn't that much of a time waster guys. 🙄

At tops I'd spend anywhere from 1-3 hours searching for the BiS gear. If you're spending more than that, then either you are a trader at heart, or you're just doing it wrong.

[placid zinc]

Finding a sword from zero to hero runs and lasting all day with it is more rewarding than trade and trader.

[trim maple]

This I agree with, but that should be the only downside tbh. An item that I can't stash or sell and drops my max health or some BS is just too much imo

[odd hemlock]

add druid

[tulip hill]

truuue

also truuue 🔽

[placid zinc]

Fix bard before add new classes duh

[lucid root]

this is going to be a mess when we have like 20 classes lol

[placid zinc]

Druid would have thorns and roots and what else lol

[tulip hill]

I don't think they'll go that far
probably just the classic Dungeon and Dragon classes and maybe a couple more

[placid zinc]

I can see sub classes being a thing down the road via the skill trees.

[granite plinth]

Maybe they should change barb to orcs and rangers with friking elves

[tulip hill]

maybe? they might go for a more free form build system

[odd hemlock]

that is true to many classes is an issue. i dont want it to end up being like league

[placid zinc]

Fighter could branch off into paladin or bruiser or tanky boi etc. Just depends on what they have planned for the skill trees

[tulip hill]

nah
viking cool

[placid zinc]

Speaking of viking.... The Viking sword added was poo poo slow animation to dmg ratio

[tulip hill]

oh yeah, they could make paladin an offshoot of fighter

[lucid root]

it would make the whole 'leveling' thing make sense, without a talent tree or subclass system the only reason to level up is to get 15 for all the perks

[trim maple]

I hope skill trees don't end up making this game feel like you can't do anything as a new player, right now it feels like its in a pretty balanced state for naked newbies and I just hope new perks don't mess that up

[tulip hill]

I mean, we already know there will be some kind of talent tree

[placid zinc]

Protected lobbies for level 1-5 would be ideal

[abstract swallow]

honestly?
they can't do much worse than now unless they start gating core functionalities behind a grind ala EFT

[queen lotus]

It wouldn't have any more of an impact than trying to take on a stacked chad as a naked.

You already have an incredibly slim chance there to begin with and would need to capitalize on a really good opportunity to kill them as it is

[tulip hill]

you cannot jump until level 10

[lucid root]

inb4 you need to spend 400 hours to max everything out and be competitive 🥹

[placid zinc]

I want EverQuest and Dark and Darker to make love and have offspring MMO game :p

[abstract swallow]

level 10?
no, far too easy, to get normal inventory space you have to jog with an overfull backpack and throw consumables 3~12 times an adventure for 60+ adventures

[placid zinc]

Don't they plan to introduce weight mechanics ?

[abstract swallow]

yeah, hopefully it'll replace the garbo -MS penalty system

[placid zinc]

So speed would be normalized for everyone ?

[tulip hill]

okay wasn't going to ask but now I'm interested
what the heck is EFT?

[lucid root]

the naked meta about to be even more meta

[abstract swallow]

every low roller lobby looking like a Rust server gets old after the 3rd playtest in a row

[tulip hill]

oh! escape from tarkov

[placid zinc]

I mean I was a naked bard mostly last play test ... But that was because fighting was mostly pointless anyway :p

[trim maple]

honestly i was interested in eft before i saw how much shit you need to do in that game

[abstract swallow]

escape from tarkov, an extraction shooter with infamously bad skill/quest progression limiting core gameplay features

[placid zinc]

Fps gun games are boring and not creative anymore. I'll stick to fantasy games

[tulip hill]

not to mention the fact that like 1 in 3 people are using instant kill esp cheats

[trim maple]

yea, what i like about dark and darker is how you can just
play

[queen lotus]

I did hear it was some egregious number like 40% or something of all players is using wall hacks

At that level of cheating, it's a defacto game mechanic

[tulip hill]

I mean, there are still cheaters in DaD but thankfully devs are being active with their policing

[placid zinc]

Hell needs a shrine that you sacrifice souls too for rewards. So if you kill people and plan to plunge down to red hell then you can stock up on your victims souls for a delayed pay day if you make it to the shrine.

[lucid root]

[trim maple]

yea, and any hacks created are just script kiddies using unpatched unreal engine backdoors afaik

[queen lotus]

I do like the idea of being able to take the hearts of killed players and use them for something

[tulip hill]

it wasn't specifically esp, but yeah, chances are if they are using anything they probably also have an esp

[trim maple]

honestly would be sick if there were like a demon merchant you could buy items from using souls

[tulip hill]

how much is 1 soul worth?

[queen lotus]

Indirectly opens up the door to having to track down your teammates killers too.

If you survived your teams killing, you'd then need to track down the ones who killed them to get the soul back for the resurrection altar....

...or take them and sell them yourself.

[trim maple]

i'd say 1 soul = purple one handed weapons/equipment, stacks of 3 blue rarity healing/shield/clarity potions, 2 souls would get 2handed equipment and some rarer items, 3 souls would get legendary items

basically a way to reward ppl who kill players, and extract, and sacrifice the inventory space for the souls

[tulip hill]

idk man, killing a naked for a purple seems a bit much

[tight kiln]

1 soul = purple weapons maybe 15 souls = purple weapon and u can only get souls in hr 😂

[trim maple]

fair tbh but i think it should be juice

[tulip hill]

also consider you could bring a naked friend along and just kill them at the end to farm souls even safer

[trim maple]

or maybe it could be like the goblin merchant where u just get random rarities and rolls

[queen lotus]

Well it's killing the naked, losing the inventory space, bringing it to hell, and getting out with it.

But yeah I'd say
1 soul = green
2 = blue
3 = purple
6 = legendary
12 = unique.

Being that souls are lost upon extraction, they would all need to be gotten in the single run

[trim maple]

12 kills in a single run seems like a bit much tbh

[tight kiln]

Yeah people are already sniping eachother and bringing full lobbies to hell to farm treasure pile for treasurer leaderboard that would be abused so fast

[tulip hill]

ah! well if you can't stockpile them this is a much better idea

[queen lotus]

A unique is a big prize

[quick blade]

That would be a cool mechanic for the warlock turn souls into loot or maybe spells ect.

[trim maple]

I'd say 10 for a unique, since ppl usually wont even find 12 ppl i dont think

[tulip hill]

well we don't actually want uniques to be easier to get

[trim maple]

I mean I really don't think it's feasible to get 4 team wipes in a single game

[tulip hill]

also consider that some of the kills you get will give you more than one souls since you aren't the only person who will be collecting

[tight kiln]

It is just decently rare to get 12none of this stuff would work a unique would have to be like 250 souls or something for it to be viable

[trim maple]

Actually that is fair I didn't think of that

[queen lotus]

Well the idea isn't that you go in there and get a unique every single time. An epic every run is more reliable, occasionally a legendary, and very rarely a unique for extremely good runs

[trim maple]

Still, since souls take up 4 slots and don't stack that would be pretty annoying to have to bring 12 souls with you to hell.

[tulip hill]

I'd trade a full inventory for a unique

[tight kiln]

Have u had a unique before?

[trim maple]

I mean 3 ppl literally wouldnt be able to carry 12 souls in their inventories would they?

[tight kiln]

The unique horseman’s axe makes it so the person u hit can’t be healed for 20 seconds

[trim maple]

Or am I just dumb

[queen lotus]

Yeah thats the idea. A unique weapon is EXTREMELY powerful. You're basically giving up the entire runs worth of loot space for it

[tulip hill]

you could carry 10 in your main inventory alone and souls can also be kept in utility slots

[trim maple]

Ah, just dumb then

[hearty badge]

Exclusivity with epics and legendaries is a good thing, and I am 100% against rewarding players with high-grade loot for mediocre tasks.

[tight kiln]

Na these are bad takes shouldn’t be able to trade souls for a unique 😂

[tulip hill]

that is a fair concern

[tight kiln]

Maybe 12 souls in one match for a purple or a cape

[trim maple]

honestly just feel like they should add actual unique armors and accessories instead of just unique versions of the ones we have

[hearty badge]

The raiding mechanic is a big appeal in D&D; it encourages connecting and meeting players in the community, and also defines player skill in the end-game tier. Not to mention the high tier PvP to learn and watch from.

[tight kiln]

Uniques have to stay inaccessible to a significant amount of the community or game would suffer a lot

[shell fjord]

Does anyone else wish for female cleric to be granted again the black hair from playtest 4?

[queen lotus]

I would argue needing to wipe out the entire lobby, make it to hell, sacrifice your entire inventories loot space, and get out with it all in a single run Is fairly inaccessible.

[hearty badge]

👎 It's nonsense. Especially when you can run around collecting souls off corpses from which you didn't kill.

[tight kiln]

Not rlly especially in normal with a good team u do that for days straight without a single wipe

[queen lotus]

With a good team is the operative phrase there. That precludes the significant amount of the community

[shell fjord]

I wish cleric had a censer for casting, something unique like wizard having crystal ball
like in left hand a censer whilst right had a mace, or the other way arround, right censer and left shield
then the casting would be done by left click though
or a flail and censer, sounds sick in my head

[tight kiln]

True but then highroller would just be full lobbies where everyone has uniques and normals would be farmed by good players for uniques

[queen lotus]

Hell, make it HR only then. Vendor only appears in the hoard room

Now you've gotta do it in hr and also kill the boss.

[tight kiln]

Uniques rn u need a semi competent team to farm highroller bosses / u don’t have a super high chance of getting a unique from the boss and u have to be willing to put the time into pveing to farm the uniques

[tight kiln]

Yeah that could be interesting would stop people from going to Brazil servers and hiding in a corner until red portals spawn

[hearty badge]

It's a bad idea that is not ideal for this game. Maybe if you altered so that everytime you get a kill, you get a unique collectible, and that if you manage to escape with enough kills, the collectibles combine into an untradeable item that vendors for a random piece of high-tier loot... but this would snowball quickly. 100% against this idea.

[tight kiln]

If the devs wanted to implement a kill reward the best way to do it would probably be better consumables rather than gear since there isn’t really a great way currently to get blue tier pots and things.

[hearty badge]

I'm down to see rewards in the form of potentially better consumables. But again, a system like this could snowball very fast and would be bad for the economy. D&D still has the blatant issue of being a numbers game at the end of the day.

[tight kiln]

True but I don’t rlly see a huge eco for consumables I think that most people don’t buy or sell them so probably wouldn’t change a whole lot

[hearty badge]

If you could buy stacks of blue shield pots with ease... trust me, things would change fast. Rewards like this would have to be more than likely, left untradeable from player to player.

[tight kiln]

Also souls for cosmetics could be interesting

[lucid root]

think the questing system should largely just be a noob helper, and once you're skilled enough to progress you pretty much grow out of needing it

probably helpful to solo players as well when their bis isn't available in shops

merchant quests will gain progress regardless if you extract successfully or not, once you redeem you can pick a green or blue for any gear slot from the relevant merchant maybe

wizards will most likely be taking books from alchemist for example

devs taking notes furiously

[meager jasper]

I hate this. The main reason to compete should be for equipment. Forcing more pvp arbitrarily isn't something I want.

[lucid root]

as for the gold chests/coffers i don't think that should be a quest item, just make it a buyable like the gold bags, not really a point in making it a questing thing. it'd be interesting to see what quests the treasurer would have though

[rugged pilot]

You are out of your mind if you think good players are minmaxing for slightly better gear when they are stomping castle in purple

[meager jasper]

What?

[rugged pilot]

People are getting into fights for the PVP, not the gear

[lucid root]

slashme question marks the above comment

[meager jasper]

The hell are you talking about? Even if you're in all purples you're there to kill people to steal and sell their shit.

[rugged pilot]

If anything the random teamates I play with will retreat and run away if the enemy has gear

[lucid root]

but those are loot pinatas!

[rugged pilot]

"he twoshotted a skeleton I'm going to run away"

[meager jasper]

Just because you randomly murder naked people for no gain doesn't really mean anything to anyone else, and I don't want to encourage it tbh. The game's current reward system doesn't reward mindless combat, and that's a feature not a bug imo.

[lucid root]

if anyone is going to rush the geared players its the naked players, they got nothin to lose

[meager jasper]

Yeah, because it's a good chance to get a leg up economically. Again, that's cool and by design. It also adds a bit of tension.

[rugged pilot]

Its not really a choice as a solo, Most of the time I'm trying to avoid players that don't have healing supplies on them visually, but you don't get a choice when people will actively suicide through mobs and spam fireballs at doors to break them, so they chase you

[hearty badge]

👍

[meager jasper]

Also say what you will, I'm super against these whining people who say you're not allowed to be friendly in a dungeon. Not knowing if someone is going to be hostile or not is part of the charm imo. It's also super on brand for dealing with degenerate adventurers.

[hearty badge]

👆Which is why adding VoiP was hilarious and awesome.

[rugged pilot]

Just adds to the toxicity

[tawny python]

or rogue .

[lucid root]

haven't had voip on since the first five minutes i realized it was added

[meager jasper]

"waaa friendliness is toxic and adventurers are unffaaaiiirr"
It's like some of you people don't even have the slightest clue about the source material you're dealing with.

[rugged pilot]

Nowhere did I say that friendlyiness is bad

[lucid root]

heard hank hill in the tavern and i'm like "yeah you're getting permanently disabled"

[meager jasper]

I haven't used voice at all. I communicate purely by crouching. Emotes? Bah.

[rugged pilot]

The source material: Being chased by a three stack shouting "come back here Nr , Clive, We got a nr"

[hearty badge]

I always thought that it was an experiment in the Goblin Caves to have potentially a grouping mentality with other players in order to take down the Cave Troll. The current Cave Troll system is lame imo.

[solar sorrel]

please make a Offline torrent so we can play PvE, thank you

[lucid root]

ahh the pubg days

[rugged pilot]

Besides people screaming in the lobby thats all VOIP is used for

[hearty badge]

So those people eventually get banned? Moving on.

[tawny python]

nerf cleric next pt or ea

[rugged pilot]

Right, but then people will reduce the toxicity and use less slurs, but still use it for the same reason. Chasing people and verbal cancer

[hearty badge]

Then don't play the game, or turn VoiP off. Fixed 👍

[meager jasper]

Being murdered by a group of immoral, insane hobos is part of the charm of d&d.

[rugged pilot]

Nawh I'm fine with both

[hearty badge]

🙌

[rugged pilot]

But people only fight for the gear, they aren't murder hobos, they just want your default gear they can't equip

[lucid root]

talking into the void as your team is trying to demoralize a solo wizard, he begins eliminating your team one by one, turn voip back on, "oh sorry did you say something?"

[meager jasper]

No but they shouldn't be rewarded for insanity. It should emerge organically from the doubt that one of you might be hostile and one of you might also have good shit to sell/kill you with.

Take for example how I play fighter. I see a wizard, and I get the drop on them? They're dead. They're too dangerous with the magic to me. Unless they obviously do not show hostility immediately and get the drop on me.

But why would I ever not kill them if they have a soul? Why would they not kill me?

[lucid root]

thank god we don't have health bars in the game

[rugged pilot]

Because you actually WANT to make friends with players and not kill them?

[meager jasper]

It's the uncertainty that makes and breaks the whole system. The tension. Remove it and it's just a battle royale.

[meager jasper]

lolwut? Nobody is in the dungeon for a conversation and a friendship. You really are an insane murder hobo

[hearty badge]

Nothing was more funny than watching people be friendly with my Bard, only to turn on me as soon as there is another player around who is aiming for me. Of course, being prepared for such rat like behavior, I always knew my positioning on the map so much better. 😂

[rugged pilot]

You love assuming things about people you know nothing about, huh?

[meager jasper]

Being a murder-hobo? That's what an adventurer is. I see again, you've never played D&D.

[rugged pilot]

"You might wanna make friends even if you lose some money"

SO YOU WANNA KILL THEM??? Warmonger, Warmonger

[meager jasper]

There is no reason I wouldn't kill every naked person I see if their soul is valuable. That's just the reality of giving their soul material value.

[rugged pilot]

There is no reason not to kill any player because they have likely picked up 2 golden bangles in the last room, or have supplies you can use

[meager jasper]

Except that there's always plenty of time to get generic loot and fighting someone for nothing is a detraction of time.

[rugged pilot]

You think a soul is not just generic loot? Its not gonna sell for more than a couple of bangles

[meager jasper]

It's either worth something or it's worthless then lol.

[bright sierra]

from a competitive standpoint you are right, but there are some people out there that dont like always being competitive

[rugged pilot]

By definition 4 cracked golden bangles are worth something

[meager jasper]

Before you straight up said some nonsense like "They make purples"

[rugged pilot]

What? Are you confusing me with the OP of the idea?

Now I understand the hostility.

[meager jasper]

So which is it. Do they have any value or do they not? Because a bangle isn't worth even factoring into someone's plans.

[rugged pilot]

You are confusing me with the dude that suggested what exactly they are worth.

[meager jasper]

Sure. But it doesn't change the point. If you're just going to give it a gold value of sub-10 then nobody will care. That isn't a real motivation.

[rugged pilot]

People will care if they get 3 kills lmao

[meager jasper]

Probably not unless they're naked tbh.

[rugged pilot]

I get randoms that get mad because I took a bangle off their enemy worth 4gp and we are mid-geared

[meager jasper]

False equivalence with kill stealing implies anything about risking a combat with a player? Okay.

Again, if I know for a fact someone has a bangle on their corpse that's not a motivation. Everyone already probably does a minute into the game.

[rugged pilot]

No, but assuming the player is dead they are gonna pick up the soul if they can fit it

[meager jasper]

So you're suggesting a largely immaterial change that exists only to bloat the profits you gain from a dungeon. Which has a knock-on effect on inflation.

[rugged pilot]

Most players don't even factor in your loot, they see Humans and charge in

Atleast when I kill those idiots I could get their souls

No, I didn't suggest it

[meager jasper]

It's still a stupid idea imo.

[rugged pilot]

Maybe if people knew they were feeding their killers money even while naked, they'd stop brainlessly charging at people and dying

[meager jasper]

You may not suggest a change that allows item-creation which would be genuinely valuable but adding extra loot to bodies is still something you are suggesting, and it's still dumb. Deal with it, people are a hazard, not a source of loot.

[rugged pilot]

I'm not suggesting it, I just think adding something to enemy souls would be great, because I get naked morons suiciding into me all the time

[meager jasper]

And you think that entitles you to something? I don't think it does tbh.

[rugged pilot]

I think it would be good, you are trying to insert thoughts and agendas into me without my consent, stop

[meager jasper]

If a gearless idiot runs at you with no regard for your gear he's an idiot and that's fine.

[dusky python]

Suggestion for Bard to also have a perk to work well with the ale item. Not necessarily the same effects is has for cleric but would be cool to see some drunk singing goin on

[rugged pilot]

They should lose 50% of their stashed coins

[meager jasper]

Why do you think it would be good if not that you feel entitled because you want some recompense for the effort of killing a literal trash mob who ran at you? It's obvious you're entitled lol. Except that you don't seem to understand this would have a negative impact on a lot of situations.

[rugged pilot]

You are going through some real mental gymnastics to arrive at that conclusion

[meager jasper]

Then answer the damn question and stop dodging lol?

[rugged pilot]

"something" being added to souls would be nice.

I don't need to explain or defend that for you

[meager jasper]

Yes you do. A suggestion without an explanation or that you can't explain isn't worth anyone's time.

[rugged pilot]

I didn't suggest it

[lucid root]

diablo 2, explode with a giant pile of gold when you die

rip

[meager jasper]

Literally arguing for a new system the OP didn't state.
"Hurr durr not suggesting anythiinnngg"

[rugged pilot]

🤯

[lucid root]

body fat sliders anyone?

[meager jasper]

Agreed. I will be the most corpulent wizard.

[rugged pilot]

"Adding something to souls would be nice"

The topic: Adding value to souls

[meager jasper]

Yep, that's a suggestion.

I get you want to seem like you're not taking a hard stance because you've not really properly thought this through, but it's still economically stupid for the game, encourages only low-level characters to essentially grief one another where before hostility was not a given, and doesn't actually provide much benefit economically to anyone - If anything it might cause inflation.

[lucid root]

#wizard message

[lilac zenith]

When they add goblin slayer armor?

[rugged pilot]

no its not a suggestion

[meager jasper]

k

[lilac zenith]

How do i make suggestion?

[meager jasper]

Do you mean via the bot system thing? It's closed atm.

[lilac zenith]

In the d and d suggestion channel

[meager jasper]

Yep. That's not open to suggestions. Your only recourse at the moment is just to talk about shit.

[lilac zenith]

I am so angry right now then

Btw this is not the right channel but about the case. Whats the propability of them winning and what will happen if they lose the case is the game cancelled for good?

[meager jasper]

Declaring probabilities for a legal case is generally a fools game, and you'll get a dozen (wrong) points of view on the internet from armchair lawyers. But generally Nexon's case doesn't seem to be airtight at all. We don't know what "loss" looks like for Ironmace, however, as it may indicate a share of profits rather than being shut down or something like that, or some other settlement being reached.

[lucid root]

just do .suggest and we will commit it to personal memory -tries super hard-

[meager jasper]

.suggest Please overhaul the staff so it has a better magic damage bonus than the spellbook and has a place in the wizard's magical focuses.

[lucid root]

reached memory capacity, commencing memory dump

[lilac zenith]

Oh then its not so bad maybe develoment will take longer then. And peopaplbility is like which favor is it moving right now

[meager jasper]

There's a downside to this, however in that Nexon probably knows their case is doomed and fully intends to delay Ironmace and strangle their funds. It could very well be years before we get the game, or we might get it immediately, and the court will not injunction Ironmace. We don't know.

[lucid root]

at least give the staff a cool animation, i might use it a little longer for novelty

[solar sorrel]

OPEN UP A OFFLINE, PVE torrent, please.

[lucid root]

not happenin until someone cracks it

[meager jasper]

pve removes all the tension from the game and makes it worthless. It's shocking how many people don't understand the basic loop of the game and why it feels good at all.

[lilac zenith]

Ahh alright its just this game has really huge potention and it would be really shameful to cancel something like this. Pure gem

[abstract swallow]

I feel like a lot of people forget that the other half of the game is supposed to be about the character of the dungeon itself, too
it's not just a melee battle royale, it's a dungeon crawler

[meager jasper]

Strictly speaking Ironmace's plans have not changed and they are supposedly slated for an early access release in the immediate future, end of april-early may. But without being relisted on Steam the reach of that will... be debatable and troublesome.

[lucid root]

i was thinkin like december

[solar sorrel]

dont care, I want pve buddie

[meager jasper]

Yeah and plenty of people think dark souls should have an easy mode. I laugh at them too.

[lilac zenith]

Is it not possible for them to release like their own launcher for example like tarkov?

[meager jasper]

Yes it is, but the danger is that the court sees this and decides to slap an injunction on them preventing further operations until the case is resolved.

[abstract swallow]

it'll probably be another playtest announced sometime in may, with their own launcher
any form of long-term hosting is basically impossible right now

[lilac zenith]

Ahh so they are in a really sticky situanion where they want to let their community play/test the game but is tricky

[meager jasper]

That would only likely happen if they tried to make money on it. So playtesting is still a possibility. The only issue with that is that it takes thousands to maintain a server, and they can't actually make money to maintain it.

[solar sorrel]

youd rather play no DaD or pve

[meager jasper]

DaD isn't DaD without pvp on a very basic level.

[solar sorrel]

So no DaD

[lilac zenith]

Well thanks for the info. A bit morr optimistic about this

[abstract swallow]

I'd be happy for them to introduce 'practice raids' or a PvE league. It'd be good for the health of the game, introducing new players, and learning the game in general.

[lucid root]

if i had an offline client i'd probably just use it for testing around with stats, possibly build a gear calculator

[meager jasper]

I disagree. Any sort of allowance of gathering loot without the threat of players completely undercuts the economy and will also cause massive inflation.

What you are saying is akin to saying "playing against bots in dota is helpful to introduce players etc."
It straight isn't.

[abstract swallow]

I apologize for not being clear, I meant 'practice raids' in reference to Tarkov-- where items are not gained nor lost in the cooperative raid, and 'PvE League' as in a separate player pool and economy for non-PvP characters.

[lilac zenith]

I think he means pve raids like you go in you dont take anything out and you dont lose anything if u die

[atomic mountain]

An “offline” type Diablo 2 mode with separate characters and no access to trading would be fine.

[idle forum]

Offline mode would be slick to practice the bosses get a feel of high roller creeps

[meager jasper]

Maybe. I also still think it would be mostly worthless and way worse as a game to playing with players.

However I do actually want some way of testing equipment, since that isn't in the game and it's actually really annoying to get damage numbers in this game, for instance.

[atomic mountain]

Eh, I’d vote for no level available except for level 1 (in this hypothetical).
Bosses are a rewarding challenge, and if you want to practice you need to play the main mode.

[meager jasper]

All I really want is something akin to the little practice area like in darktide for instance, where I can get access to training dummies without being in a timed lobby or risking the gear I want to test.

[abstract swallow]

There's a significant barrier to knowledge right now, both in the investment required to test out non-starterkit items/playstyles and to learn higher-end PvE.
Just look at the general reaction to Nightmares and their advanced combos-- people need the ability to see this content in action.

[atomic mountain]

It could have a co-op feature too.
Veterans could help new peeps learn the ropes without risking themselves in a pvp extraction environment

[limber drum]

DaD without PvP isn't DaD. He is here to beat the hell out of us. (wait...)

[lucid root]

you pvp'd with your dad too huh

that sly goose always stole my loot, said its normal to wake up in the hospital after you get rekt

[atomic mountain]

Yeah, you make a good point, but based on their philosophy of wanting players to learn by doing I’d only see them chewing on the idea of a Test mode dungeon as more of a community building feature rather than a full game tutorial.

[meager jasper]

Mhm. To be perfectly honest if I had a super easy pve mode to chew on first, I think it would've straight up made my early experiences worse.

[plucky yacht]

my game suggestion is not saving nexon's code to a personal server and then wiping that server when nexon asks to see it

[lucid root]

i'd love to see people able to build their own maps and play private servers one day

[lucid root]

you just dunked on ironmace boi

[rugged eagle]

People would get bored of a pve mode very quickly tbh this game does not have enough pve variety to make it work and the AI is super jank

[plucky yacht]

yeah i know

[lucid root]

give me a dev chest with all the gear and i'll sit there for a week just testing out stats

[rugged eagle]

And then what? lol the entire game is structured around the pvp/pve dynamic there is simply not enough going for it to be a pve dungeon crawler right now maybe near release when there's a bunch more maps and enemies but killing skeletons is already boring enough imagine that with no pvp

[lucid root]

and then thats it, thats all i wanna do

[atomic mountain]

They recently added more than double the variety after less than two months. AI was jank last PT because last PT was jank all around.

[abstract swallow]

hard disagree, there's a very large market for simple dungeon crawlers out there that have been stuck to Skyrim and ARPGs for the better part of two decades
a co-op PvE experience would have a fairly consistent community, on top of the people who could use it as a vector into the very challenging and inaccessible core game

[rugged eagle]

Yep and the amount available is still not enough to be a good pve dungeon crawler imo

[atomic mountain]

I don’t want that you’re arguing with badger unless you’re also misconstruing his suggestion

[lucid root]

disable jumping and pve suddenly gets difficult 😏

[rugged eagle]

You should check out Barony if you like pve dungeon crawlers but hey I'm not trashing on the concept I'm a fan of dungeon crawlers myself I just don't think this game in it's current state would be a good fit for a pve mode

[abstract swallow]

the argument that the existing playtest materials wouldn't support it is fair, I'm not saying it's something that needs to happen any time soon
it's the kind of thing you include in a feature-complete game to expand the audience and improve player retention

[atomic mountain]

He’s not even arguing to change the entire vision of the game. You’re approaching his suggestion with the same argument people used to say solo would ruin the game and it’s direction when in fact it was an amazing addition

[rugged eagle]

???? I never said he was trying to change the entire vision of the game I've simply said that pve would not fit with the CURRENT version of the game and would need significant increases with mob and map variety to become something fun

[atomic mountain]

You literally just told him that if he wants this added feature he should just go play a different game because that’s “not what DaD is”

[rugged eagle]

I suggested a game because he seemed interested in pve dungeon crawlers... I did not say if you want to play a pve dungeon crawler you must play Barony

[warm spoke]

put gambling/lottery into the game

[rugged eagle]

Goblin merchant has entered the chat

[white grove]

Add diarrhea into the game, if u drink too many potions too quick u get diarrhea and then enemies can follow a poop trail to u

[rugged eagle]

[abstract swallow]

a potion toxicity system was a hot topic back when attrition longbow/fireball warfare was meta and all potions stacked

[atomic mountain]

Sounded like you were attempting at gatekeeping a feature suggestion but maybe I’m wrong and you’re just being a friendly gamer. 😅 My bad

[warm spoke]

need lottery to have chance at getting good loot, 1 ticket could win 10k gold coins

[rugged eagle]

Sorry if you misunderstood my message I'm very lazy with punctuation. I actually like the PVE idea as I had a similiar thought playing last playtest but that should be something very far in the future

[atomic mountain]

Frens

[white grove]

Add fentanyl into the game. For 3 minutes u are super strong and can run and jump like crazy. Then u die after no matter what

[hazy wagon]

that's called Ale

[rugged eagle]

Do healing/prot potions still stack?

[atomic mountain]

Yeah like he said “it's the kind of thing you include in a feature-complete game to expand the audience and improve player retention”.
Not sure exactly how they would do it but some sort of test mode would be great a lot of people have suggested many different versions of this from arena to just being able to load into the tavern etc.

[warm spoke]

fentanyl makes you feel reduced pain not super strong or fast

[white grove]

Ale ain’t strong enough

[hazy wagon]

just have different beer varieties

[rugged eagle]

I would especially like it for the bosses and stuff so you can get a handle on it without jumping into high roller/hell

[abstract swallow]

different levels of healing stack, and I have been told but can't prove that ale rarities stack

[warm spoke]

only seen green tier ale, where is purple?

[white grove]

It’s fentanyl laced with crack cocaine

[hazy wagon]

Do different tier lanterns light larger areas? I've found green ones. I know campfires last longer based on tier

[rugged eagle]

If ale stacked that would be kinda op tbh

[white grove]

Ok that’s a dumb idea but add ropes that we can swing across and monkey bars and also water so we can swim and a crocodile monster

[rugged eagle]

Some people say they do but I have used different rarity lanterns while standing still and the brightness/radius has not changed. Lighting was very janky this playtest though so it's hard to tell

[atomic mountain]

Yeah on this point I’m kind of split because if they make certain design choices later on that make it to where doing bosses is also a higher than it is now, PVP risk, then I probably wouldn’t like to see a lot of boss practice taking place outside of that environment.

[rugged eagle]

Aquatic creatures? Very cool just don't want underwater combat because it always sucks

[hazy wagon]

Wondered the same about explosion bottles, no real way to test the damage though

[warm spoke]

tier exposion bottle does more dmg

[rugged eagle]

I don't want to be able to fight the dragon boss they got planned or whatever just lich, ghost king and troll are enough for me

[white grove]

Ok add in different weather effects like it’s raining and thunder so ppl can’t hear footsteps as well or foggy so ppl cant see that well

[rugged eagle]

Definitely does more damage the grey explosion bottle should be renamed tickle bottle

[atomic mountain]

We all have a different preference for what a Test Mode would optimally be used for each of us, but I could def find no fault with something where solo noobs can learn a little and veterans can help teach them a bit as well before going for the full experience

[rugged eagle]

I wouldn't trust the devs with weather rn the game is already kinda laggy and janky with lighting but I think weather is actually planned for some of the maps

[hazy wagon]

I notice people still don't understand the healing stats either, at least based on auction house listings for cleric

[meager jasper]

I actively oppose an actual pve mode. I just want a test room.

[rugged eagle]

Pretty sure the devs are firm on not doing a pve mode but we'll have to see

[white grove]

New DLC, light and lighter. It’s rly bright out like when u go out sometimes in summer. Nobody can see anything so u need to hopefully get a sunglasses drop from a chest then u can play the game normally

[rugged eagle]

[atomic mountain]

A full on PvE mode with gear rewards I would also oppose. Just some form of it though could be a welcome addition to many.

[rugged eagle]

They are most certainly doing a training area though so I think everyone can be happy with that

[meager jasper]

I don't necessarily care whether it would be a welcome addition to many. Plenty people don't know what they want.

[hazy wagon]

They've stated multiple times that there's no intent to develop a single player/pve only experience

[atomic mountain]

Yet goblin caves were created

[rugged eagle]

True if the devs listened to whatever people said the game would be a mess I'm pretty sure solo mode was not being considered but it still got added so they do go back on their promises

[hazy wagon]

that's still full pvp

[meager jasper]

I'm happy for more pvp modes. I think the game would actually benefit from receiving a dedicated duo lobby/map

[atomic mountain]

And it’s still something they never planned on in their vision

[molten pine]

I wanna see arena. you go in and straight up fight to the death and the winning team gets all ur shit

[meager jasper]

An arena is not a good idea in a game where tactical positioning in a dungeon is so important. It would only serve to highlight that certain classes cannot win in a fair fight.

[atomic mountain]

Sounds like Ruin/Forest on a smaller scale

[meager jasper]

Arguably it's anti-ruins. Ruins is open, but it certainly doesn't have neutral or balanced grounds. It has a central structure with oversight over the rest of the map from various angles. And of course, plenty of walls.

[atomic mountain]

I was referring to the one team takes all aspect as it’s described by the devs themselves

[meager jasper]

The more complex the arena the less like an arena it also becomes, if you argue such things should be included - At that point it just becomes a small dungeon.

[meager jasper]

I'm really curious about that given that the Ruins most definitely were never that lol.

They were actually more that when they were floor 1 of 3. But there are plenty of portals on the Ruins that makes sneaking around the edges and just waiting for one a completely viable strategy.

[atomic mountain]

I can see many options being great additions. As long as there’s plenty of people there to enjoy them and support the game nothing is off limits unless it muddies the overarching appeal of the game

[meager jasper]

Arguably an arena could be seen to do that. Consider that if it's easy to hop into an arena and just fight repeatedly those that do actively get denied the experience of needing to slowly traverse a dungeon and gather things and the tension of losing them is lessened. The gamble is less drawn out and therefore less impactful. You know only one of you is going to walk out of an arena.

[atomic mountain]

#📢announcements message
They describe it as a survival of the fittest, limited escapes mode.

I wasn’t making an exact 1:1 comparison, just the aspect of one team usually being victorious over all others, esp after they removed the down gates.

[warm spoke]

Arena will make people better at combat, but should have relative gear tiers

can't have purple tier against green or lower and expect people to play arena

[meager jasper]

It will make people better at some forms of combat. Gear and positioning are what are actually important to most of combat tbh. If you essentially have neither then you're only training your reflexes, and not all classes even benefit from that much.

It is not all that hard by default to swing a sword as a fighter and connect. It requires more training to shoot a bow accurately over a decent distance for instance.

Plenty of classes core playstyle is straight damage trading.

[halcyon gorge]

Not a smart suggestion, but how do you guys think one static exit portal would work? With still the random ones spawning

[meager jasper]

This is essentially what the stairs on goblin are. And I like it.

[halcyon gorge]

Does stairs open every game? I’ve used it but I wasn’t sure it opened every time

[meager jasper]

Yes, but it is timed. It can open when it's in the swarm. As a fighter I got very consistent about using them rather than contesting portals.

[atomic mountain]

In the final minutes it opens, prob 2 mins before end of match by my estimate

[meager jasper]

Yeah it's something like that. Always just before the final circle starts to close. You can hear it open too from a distance.

[halcyon gorge]

Do you think they should do that, but up to 3 uses on normals?

[meager jasper]

Maybe. I don't see why not. The only thing is the normals are not one map. There's several normal maps so presumably it would be in one "cell" that's shared across the maps but in different locations. You'd need to pretty much memorize what those maps look like in order to find it, whereas it's very clear after a short time where they are in goblin.

[halcyon gorge]

Do you think it should be in every map or just certain ones if they did have it?

[meager jasper]

I have no strong opinion on it honestly.

[atomic mountain]

Other games have exits that are open from the start of a match. Idk if it would fit in DaD or not. Ofc we don’t currently have them so many would oppose it simply because it’s a change, but those same folks would likely take up a position against time limited exits if we always had open ones.
I guess it would mostly depend on what feel they’re going for; a crawler that forces players together (what we have now w/ circle) or a game with POIs that incentivizes players to congregate like in games with always open exits.

[meager jasper]

I don't think it should be always open. I would prefer they work like the goblin I think, and open late and also have a decent amount of monster defense guarding them.

[halcyon gorge]

Well, if they did make the one static one I’d say it should stay center of ring so it keeps that incentive

[meager jasper]

That would ruin the point. It should be perfectly capable of being outside the ring otherwise there's no value in running into the swarm to get it.

[rugged eagle]

It's between 2:00 and 4:30 and usually happens around the time 3rd exit portal appears I'd know I've used it so many times

[trim maple]

Anyone else think it would be a good idea to mark any existing portals as waypoints you can see through walls as the final circle is closing?

[abstract swallow]

Pre-open escapes and descents would probably be very healthy for the game going forwards, as the game isn't meant to be centered around a single-floor battle royale experience but endurance dungeon crawling across several floors.
These options can be limited, and should be included alongside existing time-gated and randomized exits/descents, but would give players the ability to opt into fast descents and low-value runs when they want to self-select out of content they are over or under equipped for.

[atomic mountain]

Perhaps as a class perk /ability? Maybe 🤔
Or an elite mob dropping a single use scroll consumable

[trim maple]

Honestly a vision potion that lets you see chests, portals, and loot thru walls would be nice. Idk about mobs and players tho, that might get a bit op

[meager jasper]

I'm not sure. Some sort of scrying effect is something I had suggested in wizard, but honestly the more I think about it the more I think a lack of information is kind of key to how the game plays at the moment. Not sure if it's a good idea.

[atomic mountain]

I definitely would have preferred to see always open descents for Ruin. Sounds like many did

[meager jasper]

Always open descents if they really are certain they want it as level-1 would be decent for ruins I think. But I actually really like a two-level approach to maps at most.

[queen lotus]

A bit of a rework in the exit portal spawning. If there isn't anyone on the 2nd floor, don't spawn them on the 2nd floor.
It's REAL rough when you're in GC, the zone closes in, and the portal spawns a floor above you and the only way to get to it is a roundabout 1 minute long trek through the swarm to get to it.

[dense sand]

Yeah if ruins had all of the descents open until X amount of players/teams went down and they closed, I think would have solved the issue with them

[trim maple]

I think the descent in ruin opening in the final circles was fine, the circles should have just centered around the down gate instead of leaving it in the swarm 80% of the time

[meager jasper]

The only issue is that to be honest there's well enough loot in the Ruins to fill an inventory. So why do anything other than stay there? And if the loot is better on floor 2... why stay in ruins?

[atomic mountain]

I thought their goal for PT5 was to make all 3 levels work in tandem and increase in difficulty whilst also encouraging a healthy player population for each level. Based on what they said before we saw it introduced, they wanted it to be a one way street but were dissatisfied that there wasn’t much pvp in hell.

[weak vine]

I think they should make judgement one shot everything in the game

[meager jasper]

Either way it seems like there's not as much of a reason to go do either of those maps for long with an always-open descent one way or another.

[dense sand]

friday all 3 levels were together but due to issues they separated the ruins map

[trim maple]

They increased the loot drops when they made it a single map, it had pretty garbage stuff before the first hotfix

[weak vine]

Was it a lot better after? I didn’t play it after the hot fix

[abstract swallow]

That's why limited pre-opened exit/descents is the way to go. High-end players can risk manuevering and competing over them or play the round normally.

[meager jasper]

I know, but returning it just means no one will even pick anything up there. They'll just rush the exits.

[atomic mountain]

Yeah of course they were tied together but the design of ruin made it nearly impossible for there to be a healthy amount of people in level two or three

[trim maple]

Basically the new Rogue's playground, but for everyone else it was still aight

[meager jasper]

Making them limited just reintroduces the problem imo.

[dense sand]

even with having to brave the swarm, sometimes super deep in the swarm I prefered it being linked, the only issue is there would be 1 other team with you max most of the time, so for it to really work they'll need to merge matches when teams go to level 2+

most of the time my team was getting a free pve farm and lootfest on level 2

[weak vine]

They should add an item that costs 1 gold and insta spawns a portal that brings you to the best loot in the game and only I can access it

[trim maple]

Agreed

[meager jasper]

I ultimately think it's not a good idea to have more than two levels in a dungeon and always-open is not desirable for that reason. Just because of lobby-health.

[trim maple]

Honestly an item that spawns a down portal doesnt sound like a bad idea tho

[weak vine]

Kinda does

[meager jasper]

Give it to wizard. Wizards can open portals right?

[dense sand]

i hope they go to 5 levels eventually and institute match merging like they mentioned before

[weak vine]

An item that anyone can have sounds bad, maybe a new character has an ability to, so that would make sense but an item sounds like a bad idea and reduced pvp

[meager jasper]

Match-merging does change the name of the game but tbh I don't want there to be levels of the dungeon where all that's there is white gear. That just sucks.

[atomic mountain]

See I don’t think they need to do that if they just re-design the first level. Ruin being a low survival rate mob heavy good loot area just doesn’t seem to work well at populating the lower levels.
It seemed more like a highroller alternative map without the buying cost and even less exits. Which would’ve been a great addition to the game much later down the line, but a more spread out less mobs and easy descents would have been a better fit as the 1st of 3 levels. Just my two cents

[weak vine]

Match merging kinda sounds like a bad idea tbh

[dense sand]

you shouldn't get a free uncontested farm of pve and loot just because you went down a level

[weak vine]

If I killed everyone in the lobby I deserve it tho

[trim maple]

Honestly the best decision might just be to make the deeper levels of the dungeon accessible with a gold fee. That way the super geared players can farm Inferno all they want while nakeds can pvp eachother in Ruins

[atomic mountain]

That’s essentially what hell has been though, until they re-design things.

[weak vine]

It would make boss fighting impossible if you have a full lobby in a deeper level doesn’t really make sense to do it that way

[dense sand]

but on day 1 thats what it was because of lack of match merging, most of the time people escaped or died, it doesn't mean that the match merge should be a full match but it shouldn't be empty and uncontested which is what happened all day friday

[trim maple]

Or maybe make a level-locked way to start on deeper floors

[dense sand]

merge 1-3 more teams on what otherwise would be 1 team on a map

[weak vine]

Level locking is a bad idea I feel like cause whoever grinds the quickest is free to get all the best stuff with no contest

[atomic mountain]

I think the match merging is just a less elegant way to overcome bad design.
Just give players the tools to self select into those areas more reliably

[dense sand]

exactly, and it shouldn't be that way

[trim maple]

Down portals would still exist, it wouldn't be like it's LOCKED locked. You'd just have the option to start on lower levels when you pass certain levels. Also wouldnt be a thing in high roller ofc

[atomic mountain]

The three levels would work fine if the first level was an uninteresting area for most players and there was an easy way to populate the second level albeit closing the downs once the second level is full. Couple that with more hell portals on level 2 showing up sooner so people are going down instead of fighting over the last 10 square meters and boom: you got pvp action on all 3 levels

It would of course require a lot more fine-tuning and adjustments to be made to several things but I think it’s better than match merging

[hearty badge]

What did everyone think of Goblin Caves map duration this time around? I very much disliked how much faster the closing ring would shrink personally. PT4 was better in that imo.

[lucid root]

haven't played a single goblin cave match

[rugged eagle]

For me it felt good but i would play slayer fighter like i was on crack speeding around so wouldnt have noticed it anyway

[rugged eagle]

They should merge lobbies up to a certain baseline like 10 players for b1 and 6 for b2 since it was scuffed rolling into b1 in an empty lobby

[atomic mountain]

What was the new match time vs the old match time? Afaik they did not change.

Circle display on the mini map did in fact change, but not the speed. (Correct me if I’m wrong)

[gaunt cargo]

Speed felt about the same to me.

[rugged pilot]

You get that because its true, I simply stated I would enjoy something being added to souls, because that was the topic. Something is better than nothing.

[placid zinc]

Hell just needs to have zero loot other than bosses and shrines that you sacrifice souls from the people you killed that run.

Reward killing players versus ratting into hell portals.

@hearty badge goblin cave timing seemed fine. My only gripe about the caves is the triple layer and blue portal spawns towards the end. Sometimes RNG just puts the portal on the bottom floor when your on the top and the sole survivor. They could also probably remove the poison tipped arrows from gobo archers but keep on the melee.

[amber solstice]

The stock up on consumables on Ruins idea that they originally mentioned works so well if people can choose to go deeper quickly and consumables are actually pretty plentiful and the other loot is lacking. Well prepared people will skip it because they don't need it. But forcing them to stick around for 8:40 of 10 minutes was literally the worst case scenario everyone. High mob density that is hard to get past and the ability to see people from so far away also severely hurt newer and less seasoned players.

It honestly feels like they get so carried away implementing new and cool ideas that they are coming up with they they want to use them and make a new and harder level but still need to address the easier pre-levels. Basically every new mob attack they add is faster and more devious than the last. It's hard to make things cool and easier so I can definitely sympathize.

[lucid root]

just remove double jump thats about it

[meager sapphire]

Have cleric perk to auto target party members but the spell is reduced effectiveness

[frosty marsh]

You're not missing much 😛

[rugged pilot]

Garunteed died to goblins > players

[vivid sparrow]

imagine dying to gobbos

[rugged pilot]

Its kinda nutty how easy the goblins themselves actually are. They swing so close to themselves its unreal

[lucid root]

remove double jump, or add fall damage? which one is better

[vivid sparrow]

double jump is only really incredible on ruins, still good but not enough to remove it

[lucid root]

if nothing changes nobody other than rogues are going to que for it though

[vivid sparrow]

I went in as a fighter with victory strike and a good crossbow to farm the wraith, the windlass one shots rogues to the chest with victory

[frosty marsh]

They're super easy, just backstep lol

[rugged pilot]

Neither, Doublejump is not that good unless on ruins, where it was intended to be strong.

Fall damage is a horrible idea for most room setups and would benefit rogue with double jump WAY MORE than it would be problematic for them.

They can quite easily just take fall damage and bandage / potion it back up while still running or evading you

[lucid root]

rip ruins then

[vivid sparrow]

ruins is fine, just look up and use your eyes and ears

[rugged pilot]

Its kinda like saying NERF BARB but only when he's in castle in the 1man-wide hallways

Because on ruins he's not very good

[vivid sparrow]

ruins is like skeet shooting for me

[rugged pilot]

I met a few rogues that go up to a place nobody else can reach and that strategy stops working when a ranger exists

or a bard / wizard / fighter with a regular crossbow

[latent tundra]

In caves sometimes its best to run to the static escape staircase rather than rely on a portal

[rugged eagle]

Its actually better because its so consistent no portal above/below you nonsense

[boreal hound]

bruh put the rouges double jump o a little cooldown

[granite plinth]

what if wizard could activate/extinguish lanterns from a distance, perhaps as a targetable secondary function of Light Orb

[rugged pilot]

People are addicted to this concept

Why is it that everybody wants to have ways to turn off light sources from far away? The only mild use is ratting, and even then it doesn't do anything if people walk into the room and throw a torch

9/10 times if you walk into a room that is fully dark, theres a guy sitting in there

[dapper mulch]

How do I a small gamer make a suggestion?

[lucid root]

can't right now

[dapper mulch]

Sad

Idk if it already been suggestion but I was gonna sugget more different flasks or even throwable flasks if engine itself can handle that. I do not mind if people suggest or have already suggested this idea later.

I just want to throw things that do like 1 tic of damage. Like something to tease or annoy people. You know me just being based rogue player its like trying to herd a cat to kill you, so just like hitting wasp nest with pebble I want to do the same thing with 3 man groups. give them incentive to chase me. Because Lets be real

Most naked rogues (that are build right) Are loaded with rings and gem) So making it so we can throw sht would be amazing.

[keen grail]

Add a belt slot with random bonuses which improves the potions/bandages you stock inside (potions / bandages)
Something which would improve the potions you have in your quick slots with different bonuses like :

• Increase potion healing over time by X%
• Increase bandages total heal by X%
• X% increased recovery speed ( say you take a potion, it heals as much as the potion should heal but the heal over time ticks faster )
• Increase bandages casting speed by X%

These are just some ideas which crossed my mind

[rugged pilot]

I'd bet that an alchemist class or something will come, being based on DnD

[lilac silo]

imagine being able to throw healing/prot pots at teammates

[rugged pilot]

Physical and magical healing is already a stat. Belt items coming with innate stats would be nice though

[river kettle]

war maul should only be a downwards smash on its right click, not a hilt smash and then downwards smash

[dapper mulch]

Oh can you add in gondola as a prank character

[rugged pilot]

the hilt tap is the only thing making it viable lmao

[river kettle]

the hilt tap feels wonky asf, the only thing its really useful for is breaking doors

[dapper mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/walk-meme-smug-happy-gif-9829155

[river kettle]

also the damage + range is alot lower with the hilt smash, at least if they skipped that part of the attack it would be much better

[rugged pilot]

Thats what makes it viable, that and finishing off people that are good at blocking your horizontal only long af swings

[lilac silo]

the speed from the hilt tap is important

[rugged pilot]

alot of people will block for one hit and then start hitting back. They block the hilt tap and then get hit by the big overhead

[river kettle]

u go for feet then, and regarding the speed thing just position ur weapon so the moment the animation starts u already hit the person

[rugged pilot]

Good fighters will not get hit by the war maul reguardless of where you swing it. It only comes from one side every single time unless hilt tap, which is what makes it viable.

Also if we go with "logic" for the maul then it shouldn't cleave anymore

[lilac silo]

I'm not 100% sure this would work
as I understand it, if the sourspot of your swing gets blocked, then you get the "recoil" animation you'd get if you clanked a wall
the hilt is 100% sourspot, so blocking it would end the combo if I understand things correctly

[river kettle]

what logic? it shouldnt hilt smash since it feels clunky asf, i dunno what fights ur getting into but the only attack i personally find useful is the normal attack

[rugged pilot]

Yeah but blocks aren't grealy reliable either. They are trying to block your big hits so if they hear a whiff they are ready to fight back, which is usually a favourable trade for maul

[lilac silo]

blocking has promise, it's just a high skill floor

[rugged pilot]

Then it shouldn't cleave either. How is a hammer cleaving unless it knocks somebodys head clean off?

[river kettle]

for a reliable and easy to aim hit for mainly doorbreaking and not hitting teammates

[rugged pilot]

Which is why its viable and useable especially on Barb, who needs more ability to teamplay and not less

RN its like 50% chance to get 40% + damage near your own barbarian if they aren't super careful and walking on eggshells around you

[river kettle]

which is why it should warmaul should have a purely downwards smash so you dont hit teammates

[rugged pilot]

Bigger swing is more chance to hit teamates

[river kettle]

hell alot of times when i run war maul i run a felling axe just so my teammates can fight around me if no ranger

[rugged pilot]

for PVE its very easy to hilt tap away from the fight and then turn in for your downward smash

[river kettle]

for pve u can stay out of range of most mobs with left click, with a good build u can one/two tap mobs

[rugged pilot]

You don't even need a good build, just a non standard maul

[river kettle]

u still need to run a purple since thats about as cheap as running pendents

[rugged pilot]

but again its hitting your teamates with the horizontal swings

I've 2hit skeletons etc a maul that wasn't very basic

Whats dumb is when somebody next to me gets hit in the body with warmaul and it goes through them to hit me also. Shouldn't happen with a blunt weapon unless they die

[river kettle]

tf war white mauls are u running? for alot of pve oneshots u need at least a blue depending on ur e and q

[rugged pilot]

Didn't say 1shot, 2shot and with white+

If you get a good white one its possible

[river kettle]

fair, but by that point just invest the extra gold into the purple war maul, heck i sometimes run purple mauls with white gear because of how cheap they are

[rugged pilot]

You can get good value out of grey mauls sometimes tbh

The damage + cleave is what makes it nutty

IMO blunt weapons should have higher damage and no cleave, unless the attack kills somebody, then it continues through them

[river kettle]

not really, 20 damage + multipliers make a huge difference

[river kettle]

nah, see the one thing war maul has going for it is how easy it is to drag and hit multiple enemies (and the damage)

[rugged pilot]

Yeah, but it makes no sense whatsoever

[river kettle]

this isnt a realistic game

[median nymph]

idk if it was there but i want a scroll to switch item option

[rugged pilot]

The weapons are fairly realistic.

[river kettle]

it would make fighting feel even more clunky if that was for some reason a thing

[rugged pilot]

The only real issue is speed, but thats a game design choice.

Having more damage on maul by default but no cleave would give it a purpose and some difference to any other high damage axe. HUGE damage, but slow and no cleave. Serves really well as a single target nuker

[river kettle]

late game becomes even bigger oneshot heaven

[rugged pilot]

Yeah, then I could see a use for right click overhead only. To hit over a teamates side to kill an enemy, peel a rogue or something from your teamate, oneshot a skeleton that is about to kill someone

maybe juke a fighter who is behind a shield and not expecting an overhead, could block it incorrectly and the hammer part still catches his head.

The extra damage would put in work and make it a unique playstyle from axe

[river kettle]

do u actually run into fighters/clerics that use their shields at all?

[rugged pilot]

Yes all the time

Fighters, not clerics

[river kettle]

tf? all fighters/clerics i run into very rarely even block my hits since if i see them shield up im going for toes

[rugged pilot]

Fighters I encounter will crouch and block their toes

or jump it

[river kettle]

dunno what fights u are running into then

[rugged pilot]

Good players that run shit like Rapier / Heater

Garbage damage but it doesn't matter because they jump over low hits and block high hits. Best way to deal with them is ranger / wizard as of last playtest, barb peacemaking and ranger

[abstract swallow]

You're kidding, right?
Please share an example of this, I want to see this in action.

[rugged pilot]

I truly in every sense wish I was

[abstract swallow]

there cannot ACTUALLY be Fighters that were running a mainhand with shield that hit like a Wizard Rondell without Ignite

[rugged pilot]

I can't play and record, my setup is garbage. I can try to get my usual team to record next time we play though

[rugged pilot]

The ones that are absolutely insane at blocking do, because they have block and jump tech

I assume they use rapier for spacing because they can't afford the high damage falch yet

[tight kiln]

Rapier heater shield?

[rugged pilot]

Rapier heater + doorway

[amber solstice]

Oh shit, 3x pavise fighters shield slamming people to death sounds hilarious.

[rugged pilot]

its strong versus alot of comps when you can block in a doorway, most horizontal body attacks will hit wall or shield

Anything lower you can jump over. Only threat is a clear front and a ranger or wizard to shoot at you

Rapier can easily hit through the doorway

[tight kiln]

Blocking attacks with a shield is troll learn to sidestep

[rugged pilot]

Not really a troll if they can block every hit reliably lmao.

Some people are block monsters

I once saw a barb with bardiche block 2 rangers from 2 different angles

[tight kiln]

It is a troll even if they can block every hit reliably learn to side strafe every hit reliably and u can dps while also dodging. U can’t dps and block u can dps and dodge

[rugged pilot]

You have a very weird definition of trolling. Its winning them fights lmao

[tight kiln]

People can win fights standing still and left clicking doesn’t mean it is the best way to do something

[dense sand]

good footwork is always better than blocking, but sometimes you get in a tricky spot and have to block

[rugged pilot]

They can hold 3 people in a doorway indefinitely with block, thats not trolling

[tight kiln]

True some cases it is worth blocking if ur trying to waste an Achilles proc etc I agree

[dense sand]

yeah block spells and abilities as mucha s possible, out maneuver melee at all costs

[tight kiln]

Hold 3 people in a doorway with what a pavise?

[rugged pilot]

Heater

[dense sand]

lol no, you get head shot or leg shot, you can do anything to noobs but any decent/experienced player isn't getting stopped by a heater shield in a doorway

[tight kiln]

If 3 people can’t figure out how to get past a single dude with a heater then that only shows the players u are playing against

[lilac silo]

rapier was massively buffed this playtest
I was using this build myself and can attest to its strength

[rugged pilot]

Alot of weapons don't actually have a choice lmao

[tight kiln]

People were really running a rapier + a shield?

[rugged pilot]

if your weapon is horizontal swing you cannot get an attack through a doorway with a shield in it

If you swing low they jump over it

[dense sand]

you said 3 people, if 3 people are magically running the same weapon and are horrible players yeah anything is possible, but you can't infinitely block all angles with a heater shield in a door way from 3 non brain damaged players

[lilac silo]

rapier has one of the fastest attacks in the game, with great range and recovery
compliments shields very nicely. block, get a punish, and recover in time to block again

[tight kiln]

Na this is a crazy discussion. Heater locking 3 people in a room 😂

[rugged pilot]

alot of weapons are also incapable of fighting side by side. Because again horizontal attacks

[dense sand]

sounds like either you were playing with or against players with horrible positioning and aim

[tight kiln]

U had to use the weaponmastery perk for it?

[lilac silo]

yes, but you're using that anyway if you're smart
fighter with a longbow is very good

[rugged pilot]

No, the best counter to players doing this (and what we use to counter it) is ranger or wizard

or peacemaker bard / any of those with crossbow

[tight kiln]

a rapier is not better than an arming sword in that sense tho with the dmg decrease.

[rugged pilot]

It is if you are fighting in the doorway where arming sword cannot hit

[lilac silo]

it's not as good damage-wise, but the speed and punish potential is its own strength

[tight kiln]

arming sword has a stab attack?

[rugged pilot]

Not first in the chain, and stab attack very easy to block

[tight kiln]

na this is a troll fr

[rugged pilot]

You don't understand and haven't faught it, its okay. But this is a very good onetrick to fight in doorways with a thrusting weapon with a heater

I've seen Heater + rondel dagger lmao

Its worse to space with than rapier but I've seen them doing it

[tight kiln]

do u just spend the match sitting a doorway hoping that ur only against 3 fighters with only horizontal swings?

[rugged pilot]

bruh I'm not the one doing it, if you'd actually bothered to read the discussion before you started replying to it, that would help

[tight kiln]

bro the second u said blocking 3 people in a doorway with a heater shield it was kinda over

[lilac silo]

are you kidding? this is discord we're talking about, people love jumping into conversations 80% of the way in without bothering to inform themselves of the context

[rugged pilot]

Okay, is it fair to say you've never seen anybody running rapier + heater and running into doorways?

If so, I understand that you have no idea how well this works.

[tight kiln]

I have played against people range hacking and they would not be able to lock 3 people in a room

[rugged pilot]

That has nothing to do with what was being discussed

Maybe next playtest you will encounter somebody doing this or test it out for yourself

[tight kiln]

Do u have a clip of it. It just wouldn't work 🤣

[rugged pilot]

As I said earlier when you arrived, no I cannot record and play because of my bad rig

[tight kiln]

I thought u said u weren't the one doing it.