suggestion-discussion

[dusk verge]

Give Bard a Vicious Mockery Skill that functions similar to Judgement, but does a small amount of damage, gives a short attack power debuff, and is on a relatively short cooldown.

[fading imp]

Bard does not have enough design on it to judge it's effectiveness

Needs more songs, items, skills, etc. Unfinished.

[vapid oxide]

i suggest a less cringe comunity that stop handholding 5 man in solo q

[somber wind]

I don't think bard needs to be reworked per say, I think it's VERY good flavor wise as it is now and does nicely in PVM but it needs to have more variety and it WILL have more variety; we already know that bard is currently unfinished and doesn't have options in music as it just wasn't added yet. THAT SAID from what we see right now the following can be said with certainty:

1. Bard gear needs to have more variance in stats.
2. Bard songs need to have atleast some scaling with stats or modifiers.
3. We need more songs, and some of these need to be combat songs.
4. Bard's movement speed slowdown while playing a song is too harsh currently.

I have proposed ideas before for supporting Bard such as having multiple instruments which modify the minigame and the act of playing songs such as faster minigame, longer but easier mini game with more AoE and other potential alterations to the system purely based on instrument. Songs SHOULDN'T be locked to specific instruments or class of instruments due to it causing inventory bloat as there will be some amazing combination between 3 or 4 instruments that becomes meta if that's the case.

Spells I came up with or adapted from D&D before:

* Heroism; In an AoE allies become Immune to damage reducing debuffs and gain 25 Temporary HP (They gain 25 HP even if it goes over max and then they lose 1 HP per second for 25 seconds) for 25 seconds. Amount of Temporary HP (and duration to match the HP) scales with Will.
* Clairvoyance; In an AoE highlights Chests, Pots, Levers, Portals and Traps for you and allies for a duration based on how well you play.
* Dullness; In an AoE lowers action speed by 75% for a duration based on how well you play.
* Sluggishness; In an AoE lowers movement speed by 33% except for you for a duration based on how well you play.
* Vicious Mockery; Deals magic damage every second of the song in an Spherical AoE (instead of Circular). Damage falls off the further out in the AoE the enemy is.

Instruments from before:
To keep in mind the Lute is -10 Movement Speed, 15 Damage, -17% Slowdown on Hit.

* Flute; Smaller AoE, Quieter, -5 Movement Speed, 5 Damage, 0% Slowdown on Hit, Dagger Swing Speed.
* Hurdy-Gurdy; 1/4th notes to hit in Minigame, Longer Minigame (So longer startup), Larger AoE, Louder, -20 Movement Speed, -20% Slowdown on Hit, Much Slower Swing Speed.
* Vielle (Medieval Violin); Quicker Minigame (So faster startup but harder Minigame), -10 Movement Speed, 12 Damage, -15% Slowdown on Hit, Faster Swing Speed.
* Bagpipe; Significantly Larger AoE, Double notes to hit in Minigame, Significantly Louder, -15 Movement Speed, 9 Damage, -20% Slowdown on Hit.
* Psaltery; 50% more notes to hit, +2-3 seconds to Duration of Songs effects after Song is finished (The song rings out at the end)(Duration bonus rolled), -25 Movement Speed, 15 Damage, Slower Swing Speed.
* Lyre; Smaller AoE, Much Quieter, Can be played while resting, 25% More Notes if not Resting, -5 Movement Speed, 12 Damage, -15% Slowdown on Hit, Faster Swing Speed.

Bard would be in a significantly better place with these additions and changes and be a full fledged class. I'm not saying it should be 1:1 any of this but it's just a way it could be done. The main things are the 1st 4 that were mentioned are just general truths.

[night rock]

Buff wizard does nothing

[wet wasp]

some new perks for bard would be cool aswell 😄 war song is so short and the damage buff is so low you would rather just pick up your weapon and help your teammates instead of playing

[lucid musk]

Spiders need to have 5 hp tops. Spawn more, less hp. There is no reason they should body block you/flip you when they dont even go up to your shin. They can even prevent you from jumping or worse if you dont clear them you go into bounce house hell

[real trellis]

PLEASE add an escape portal to the Cave Troll's loot room it's SO unfair that someone who'd never beat the troll themselves can just sit outside the arena and come in to kill you when you win

[unique crystal]

Please make some way to just do PvP without the horrid PS2 era mob ai and mechanics

[thorn vector]

I think Cleric should start with more basic knowledge. I don't understand why a fighter starts with more knowledge than a cleric... it makes no sense to me. I suggest to lower starting Will to 26 and increase Knowledge to 16 or something similar. Thanks

[unique crystal]

Also please find a way for ranged mobs not to shoot arrows 90 degrees from the direction their bow is currently facing.

[graceful cliff]

also it would be nice to bring ranger back, I dont play him but it feels wrong to have limited ammo with how weak ranger is

[somber wind]

I feel like all boss rooms should get a triple escape portal as a reward upon killing the boss.

Cave Troll would be single of course.

[celest egret]

Any idea if the rogues double jump will be nerfed or balanced? At this very moment it feels very broken and ruins engagements.

[stable rose]

rogue design doesnt fit in the theme of the game, everything i loved about the first 4 playtests is dashed out the window you start adding double jumps and back rolls. Every class Ive played vs minus wizard and barbarian REALLY STRUGGLES, even those 2 can barely catch/kite him. IDK rogue just feels so stupid rn, im watching ppl double jump in the air and stab down. ew, i dont wanna play like this. I loved this game for its slow methodical pacing. I wont be playing if this mobility is allowed to stand, wizard haste is already toxic enough, now i have to deal with a double jumping stealthing hasted rogue. id rather kite the barbarian that 1 shots me, at least he doesnt move 200 mph

[somber wind]

It's mostly an issue on the new map, this is less an issue with the skill and more an issue with the map's design not limiting how much area the rogue gets on the walls. Adding more towers and things that disconnect the walls from eachother would nerf it quite alot without doing anything. That said the back rolls I could agree might be abit much on top of the double jumps existing. It should be 1 or the other existing but double jumping is immensely fun so I think getting rid of back rolls would be better.

[graceful cliff]

exacly

[ashen oak]

invisibility needs some kind of distinction. going completely invisible is kinda broken

[white sigil]

Friends List would be great

[ashen oak]

please add some type of blur effect

[hollow flicker]

no

[celest egret]

Do you mind elaborating why not? At this moment not being able to notice your enemy is kind of broken, especially if rogue can just spam it.

[lucid musk]

I main rogue and double jump is basically a necessity on the new map, it's just too strong (and fun obviously, im the guy plinking you with poison bolts from 100yds away). So if they were to keep it they'd either need to polish the ruins map and others going forward, or give double jump a cool down of sorts. As it stands rogue is in a league of its own with its mobility, invis, burst damage output and dots to add on top.

[hollow flicker]

The whole point of invisibility is so that you can't see them.

[meager jasper]

Putting in my two cents as well. Rogue is horrifically OP this playtest, and I say that as someone who has been playing them alongside fighter and wizard. They shouldn't have double jump and I think the new map needs to be overhauled

[hollow flicker]

BTW I recommend just playing the Crypt level because it's far more balanced, way better designed and just fun. Rogues are not OP there.

[calm bay]

Take the endgame portal spawn rate from ruins and add it to all maps

[meager jasper]

While true rogue doesn't get much advantage from double jump there. Ergo it shouldn't be on them in the first place.

[lucid musk]

I think invis is fine the way it is, you can be heard fairly easily imo. It's just so strong when combo'd with all the passives and skills, and you really only need a good weapon. There's no other class that can go in naked and have a pretty good chance every time. Tarkov had issues with hatchlings. Tarkov has the secure container, but its fundamentally the same thing

[ashen oak]

going completely invisible is not fair in any way especially in this game with so many hidden corners

[meager jasper]

There's no issue with invis tbh. It's their whole point.

[ashen oak]

alright going invisible and staying still for an entire match is the whole point?

[silk sluice]

Inb4 general floods this

[calm bay]

final suggestion for this playtest, Ironmace doesn't deserve this goofy fan base it attracted.

[meager jasper]

That's not something they can do without a lot of invis potions

[lucid musk]

if that is someone's prerogative in essentially a sandbox game with a br circle slapped on, yes they can and should be able to do that

[ashen oak]

but still possible right? cause it just happened

[meager jasper]

They have to stay still lol, so why would anyone do that except to sit and wait in ambush? They'd get no loot.

[ashen oak]

trying to find someone hidden from human eye with just sound is kinda crazy

[tranquil hinge]

Have you guys spotted a lot of rouges using double jump to climb over textures in ruins? Sort of cheating if you are waiting in the middle of the circle until the portal appears

[ashen oak]

all im suggesting is some kinda distortion to invis

[lucid musk]

They made it even easier for non rogues since you only need to bump into them or hit them with a torch to reveal them. If it were up to me I'd say actual damage reveals as the skill says, but any player bump reveals regardless of damage

[meager jasper]

You mean you don't want it to be invisible, so it's useless. I hear what you're suggesting it's just not intelligent at all.

[ashen oak]

im pretty sure hiding your entire body and clothes count as invisible. relax bro

[livid adder]

Hey I dont think this is a discussion about intelligence. I do agree that rogues should be invisible, not a distorted silhouette.

Hear me out though, the item glint of items on the ground should be the same colour as their rarity

[hollow flicker]

people's exaggerated complaints about wizard got them way overnerfed this PT and I can see that the same thing is gonna happen to Rogues

[meager jasper]

Again, I'm not even a rogue main and that's the dumbest thing you could suggest. Without its silly double jumping rogue's only real advantage is invis-related ambush tactics when compared to an equal fighter. Distorted silhoettes are present in other games too and they're always perfectly visible to the human eye.

[heavy lion]

people getting way too mad at double jump

[livid adder]

I am a rouge main, i can 2 tap people with rapiers, ambush's are useful but definitely not the only way to get by.

[zenith salmon]

just me that would like hitting enter after writing your ID and password to log you in? not having to move the mouse to press "Login"?

[livid adder]

its just funny i agree. Skill diff.

[ashen oak]

are other games as dark and hardcore as this one?

[lucid musk]

Doesn't magelight reveal invis? I thought the description had something like that, could be wrong. Bard seems like a decent rogue counter if its passive song puts a symbol on their head

[livid adder]

Not just you. then agian this was a temp solution

[heavy lion]

i dont think its a skill diff, i just think its more of a ruins problem than a rogue problem and the map is brand new so let it ride for a playtest

[graceful sparrow]

To be fair, I've killed so many people by jumping off a wall and just landing next to them and stab them relentlessly until all their loot becomes mine. It's really not fair. Fun as hell for me but I imagine super not fun for everyone else.

[boreal axle]

sup, the servers are down?

[zenith salmon]

could u press enter to login on prev playtests? i didnt play

[livid adder]

True. I do enjoy the minimal skyboxes

[calm bay]

nah you just loaded into the game

[livid adder]

No. It was through steam so there was no login.(sorry for the late response text cooldown)

[zenith salmon]

i keep pressing enter and just looking at the screen for a good 5 seconds thinking the server is slow

[twilit notch]

Give double jump like a 10 second cd or something like that, easy fix, the problem is that you get yo spam it

[lucid musk]

I pray to god they fix not being able to put bolts into your stash, the same with any other class starter item you loot

[livid adder]

Tbh i dont think it is really broken, just allows rogues some more tricky movement. Like the backflip.

[heavy lion]

the backflip is useless in the small testing ive done, seems just as fast to hold S

[livid adder]

Im pretty sure thats not a bug. Idk why it would be a problem appart from stacking starter heal/prot pots between runs

[livid adder]

Trust its quite great if you have high movespeed. And funny Also servers are back up!

[heavy lion]

what scenario is backflip more appropriate to use than to just turn and run?

[frosty marsh]

I disagree, I think they 100% should have double jump. They should be mobile.. they've been underpowered in previous pts. I don't find them significantly harder to fight now. I think people just struggle to adjust.

[weary shale]

Add a floor2 back to the Ruins, its too easy now!

[raw anchor]

servers down?

[clever fable]

man i was on a 3 man server got all the loot people friendly then game crashed damn

[wooden birch]

anyone else who plays wizard or cleric feel that the 1st spell ring should be made baseline to allow for the bringing of other abilities, feel like you're always forced to bring meditation or double spell rings on cleric and nothing else

[meager jasper]

They're hugely overplayed in ruins to a cancerous degree.

[livid adder]

The comedic and its harder to react too.

[hollow ingot]

As I see it, I think the game should remove the fog and leave a time limit to extract. You do whatever you want in that time. If you want to move from the top left corner to the top right corner, no problem. You just have to get there, kind of the way it is now, you play where you spawn because the fog pushes you into zones where you sometimes had no goal of going.

[stuck leaf]

Anyone else miss the 3 floors and blue crypt from the start of the playtest?

[livid adder]

Do you have any suggestions on how loot spawning may work. How would we stop players turtling and controlling areas for respawned loot. etc.
I do enjoy the claustrophobic nature of the swarm and intense moments it creates.

[hollow ingot]

I think this is something that doesn't need to be controlled. You equip yourself to go to the central locations on the map. A very good area for ore, for example, you equipped yourself for it, other parties will also equip it and the confrontation in the place decides who will get the loot. The rest of the map becomes transient, but with loot that could end up being interesting.

[lucid musk]

Bolts specifically have to be a bug. From any source in raid, they can't be put into your stash for keeping.

[scenic panther]

I liked the Idea of 3 floors, I just wish the way to get into the crypt was implemented better. Blue Crypt was horrendous IMO

[frosty marsh]

The fog encourages contact with other teams. That's why it's there.. if you remove that combat encounters would drop. Not a great idea

[livid adder]

Maybe so.

[thorny hollow]

Wỉzad really need an overhaul. Since you can only use 2 skill. Meditation and spell skill. If you dont use meditation. You have to wait ages for the spell to be back. And the spell skill. If u dont use it. You cant do anything. Its just so limited build on wizard

[livid adder]

Yea i do, it feels much more comfortable to be in than b3

[hollow ingot]

So, but what I think is, for example, there could be really good areas to loot where you would always know you had something good in there. If you want to get stronger, you would have to go to those places where there are more players. It would also let the novice walk more leisurely around the place and experience the crypt more naturally without being forced into immediate naked combat.

[livid adder]

You can use campfires

[carmine flint]

god im so incredibly hard

[livid adder]

I think this already exists in golden chests that are easy for solos and groups to get with lockpicks, or for rogues. Personally i prefer the zone to a more Escape frome tarkov esc style of game.

[tranquil hinge]

yeah thats exactly what I meant

[mint pagoda]

Why was haste dumpstered? It takes like a whole second after casting for u to get the speed

[tranquil hinge]

agree here too

[dapper crescent]

Suggestion to making queueing up as a solo player more viable; make it so that more escape portals spawn earlier, alternatively closer to players(practically on top of them)

That way solo players will always have a good chance of getting out(sacrificing some loot in the process), rather than being hunted down half the games they play, simply because they got matched versus a juiced up 3-man

[meager jasper]

I disagree with the idea it's a ruins problem, since double jump only has real value on the ruins and breaks that map specifically. Without double jump, rogue is still good on ruins - it's still well-designed for stealth and visibility from above. It's literally just double jump that seems to be the problem as it is a huge advantage on that map specifically.

[tranquil hinge]

yeah so leave the double jump as it is and design the textures so the player slides rather than stay on the edges

[meager jasper]

The map is genuinely fine for other classes. It's just too strong with rogue's perks.

[wet brook]

i take off my shoes when i roam around solo and i feel like there are spawning lots of portals rn i the crypt

[mint pagoda]

or just invisible wall that shit

[graceful sparrow]

Double jump does more than break the ruins, it also gives naked rogues, on top of insane speed, the ability to cut corners and escape most dangers. I've killed plenty of clerics and escaped without punishment as a solo v 3. Kill, jump over un-single-jumpable terrain until my CD's reset then attack again. It's pretty broken, fun as hell for rogues but overall just dumb. jumping from lantern to lantern hanging out in unreachable areas and escaping without counter-play is just nutsoh

[wet brook]

3 charges, 20 seconds cooldown! no wonky textures, and invisible immersion breaking walls >P please

[meager jasper]

tbh I don't want it in the game, it's silly as fuck. It's cartoony and shouldn't be in the game in the first place.

[south prairie]

Two suggestions: make walls so that you cant stand on them on ruins and have people slide off if they try to (against rogue pakour); and maybe make wolves territorially (about where they spawned), because it is really stupid to have a pack of wolves chasing you around the map

[stiff bolt]

This test, exposed a lot of bugs in the game, which shows that the game needs to be polished. But this test is too short for players to help you complete the test. I suggest that the test be extended to the end of the month.

[wet brook]

[tranquil hinge]

Yes, lets make the playtest available till end of summer :d

[meager jasper]

I have my doubts they have the funds to maintain servers and pay for the legal costs at the same time.

[hollow flicker]

a high jump where they could gather and leap higher and further would preserve the aesthetic better. But idk I think double jump is cool

[mint pagoda]

RIP wizard haste

[meager jasper]

I don't like it at all, and it feels like it breaks the slow and methodical movement style of the rest of the game. It's like a platforming ability in the middle of Mordhau or something. It feels wrong as heck. It's especially silly since it only has value on one map.

[tranquil hinge]

personally I don't see the benefit of double jump in the dungeon, in ruins is OP and should be balanced

[wet brook]

its pretty good in the dungeon as well

[tranquil hinge]

yeah but not OP, doesn't give you the advantage of staying in one place for 10 minutes and jump over people from behind

[lucid musk]

double jump does a lot more than just parkouring. In fights its a game changer

[wet brook]

true!

[dapper crescent]

Yeah, but it's still too heavily dependent on RNG which is a bit of an issue. You can do well if you're a great player, and do okay if you're good. But you can't do great, even if you play great.

They should spawn a portal close to you early(if you're near the edge of the circle), which'll then become lost to the darkness when the circle moves in. That way you get to decide if you want to get out early for safety, or risk it for a lot more loot.

[wet oak]

👆

[wet brook]

yea its good for avoiding hits

[lucid musk]

and giving hits. double jump and rapier downward is practically a spear or as good as

[tranquil hinge]

haha, so we agree that double jump is good but the ruins textures needs reworking? 🙂

[wet brook]

🤐

[dapper crescent]

double jump 100% needs a cooldown, even if it's only 2-3 seconds

[nocturne tinsel]

The Video Settings have improved since last playtest. I would like to see the ability to Disable/Enable VSYNC, for GSync/FreeSync monitors.

[heavy lion]

you said you disagree with the idea its a ruins problem, but then said double jump only has value on ruins. How is this not a ruins problem? I run double and i play crypts only. Great for cheesing mobs but not much use in pvp unless im escaping

[meager jasper]

Because if it was removed and ruins was unaltered it would be entirely fixed.

[vale stone]

I would love more settings with proximity chat, like sensitivity, maybe play with range and volume

[heavy lion]

but i get plenty of value from it playing crypts without it letting me walk on top of the map

[severe kraken]

@dawn grottoWe need a two person mode

[meager jasper]

Yeah so you admit you're biased and you just want it?

[heavy lion]

Yeah of course i want it, the fun factor is high. My point is im not using it on ruins which seems to be the biggest complaint of people who are against it

[meager jasper]

I don't think it should be in the game at all, fun factor or not it completely breaks the movement system. This isn't a platformer.

[heavy lion]

in what way

[meager jasper]

The lack of manoeuvrability in this game was, previously, by design. Double jumps (and backflips too) feel really out of place when in the same game as a mordhau-style slow movement system with very deliberate spacing and little hops at a realistic jump-height.

[ebon tundra]

Yeah double jumps are quite stupid for this game

[rich gazelle]

I was hoping the rogue would get something like spy from TF2, like dropping a "Dummy" corpse and going back into stealth to confuse people if he really died.

[meager jasper]

Movement always feels super fun when it's well-implemented, and I get that, but it compromises the rest of the game's feel. It would also feel super fun if wizard could cast Fly I'm sure. As a wizard main I would not want that.

[ebon tundra]

I would take that over double jump honestly

[wet brook]

rogues have to be nasty, otherwise you dont fear them

[vocal lodge]

true

[rich gazelle]

Yea like the ability to drop one of himself, or one of a random class with a random players name in the lobby when hovering over it. So if you checked the corpse and saw your name, ...turn around lol

[ebon tundra]

Yeah but double jump just changes it to the rogues playing csgo surfing and the others trying to keep up

[meager jasper]

I'm a fan of increasing the damage spookiness of rogues that way, but I do want them to be squishy.

I feel similarly about wizard. They've nerfed their damage output into the ground and they seem to suck now. But I want them to be high output and die to a light tickle from a fighter/barb.

[vocal lodge]

i like the sitting mechanics, being sitting in the dungeon with your teammates is cool, i think devs are going in a good direction here, i will change some minor things but the rest is pretty ok

[desert osprey]

have regular arrows infinite. make bosses only affected by unique ones you buy from a merchant.

[burnt lynx]

How can I submit a suggestion?

[vocal lodge]

no no limited arrows is actually more balanced and is a good improvement

[rich gazelle]

Has anyone tried to use pickpocket to swipe all arrows from and archer? does that work?

[meager jasper]

I like the limited arrow system after some using it, but I do think there should be a quiver slot or something for arrows, and they should be stashable.

[boreal tundra]

can we nerf pve archers? theyre litterally run ending if your a rough. thewy can 1 show you from a full sprint while strafing its absulutley ridiculous

[meager jasper]

Good, rogues need to get more chadded on.

[wet brook]

maybe a item for the inventory, like the gold purse. stacking 40 arrows, size like a onehandsword

[vocal lodge]

i think only the crossbow archer is the only one can oneshoot you. but its ok they add more damage to the crossbow since you probably have one shot on pvp

[meager jasper]

Jokes aside though this is by design, get a hand crossbow and don't run at a ranger without applying pressure or using your environment real carefully.

[boreal tundra]

it does yes

[rich gazelle]

One thing I wish they did for cleric is make the Bind spell an aoe ground one, that places it like a trap with a feigntly glowing rune because there's usually 0 time to cast when rushed by fighter or rogue.

[orchid frigate]

Get more cast speed also never use staff, staff is a joke

[wet brook]

wouldnt that blind your teammates as well ?

[rich gazelle]

yea, it would just be like the archer trap but a bind only

[drifting shadow]

I tried to empty his arrows.. I made him shoot the wall for a while. He has infinite arrows :D

[vocal lodge]

ok i think cleric is slightly op. add more spells to cleric is no good

[orchid frigate]

I think cleric is almost in a good spot, but maybe do something about protection spell, it lasts a very long time and blocks a lot, it frontloads fights a lot into just who can buff more before the confrontation

[vocal lodge]

maybe warlock can blind since he will have more crowd control spells

[rich gazelle]

Cleric is strange, i main it every playtest. The mix of heavy and light armor + limited spell options without gear I would rather only light armor and more spell slots and just make a Paladin class for heavy armor / melee spec

[hallow belfry]

A support should be good at support. Otherwise running two DPS will be stronger and it will be less complex

Keeping the clerics spells strong but nerf it elswhere would be good

[wet brook]

cant wait for a warlock, im so curious... an exhaust ...

[rich gazelle]

Here's hoping "Cleanse" gets an actual use when they come out lol

[wet brook]

yea, there are propably a lot more spells to come

[orchid frigate]

Thats kind of my point, cleric is so strong that its basically a must have in 3 man teams, by taking another dps instead you are gimping your team. I think its important to remember that DaD is not based on the holy trinity of dps tank healer, so you should be flexible in team comps without gimping yourself too much

[hallow belfry]

Thats fine tho ? Any Dungeons and dragons team without any support is gimped too

Needing a support is good, i think the bard needs to be stronger so it can compete with the cleric

[vivid warren]

Please re name the game to dark and a farter, cause i farted from jump scares

[rich gazelle]

I'm surprised so far no caster has a return dmg bubble like spell yet so people who run low dmg / fast spam attacks actually suffer when spamming that person

[orchid frigate]

I think more team comps will become viable as more "goals" are added to the game, right now everyone has the same goal of extracting with as much gold as possible or as many kills as possible

[somber wind]

Nah rename it Bard and Barter.

[rich gazelle]

What did you guys think of the little snub crossbow added? I felt it was a bit overkill since we have throwing knives and fracesca axes already that you can load up on.

[wet brook]

i did like it because you cant buy it from a trader

[orchid frigate]

I personally think its too inconspicuous, most of the time i can't tell that someone is holding one and then i suddenly get shot

[rich gazelle]

True, for me it's like when I play vermintide over L4D2 one is ranged focused and one melee, i'd hate to see the meta of the game change to heavy range focused fighting

[deep ember]

add guns

[hallow belfry]

Its really really strong with all the rogue buffs they can apply to it. It scales really hard

[rich gazelle]

I hit 20 on my rogue probably 3x faster than I did cleric by just exploiting double jump against AI it is pretty nuts

[boreal tundra]

play in the howling depths and you will say its trash, its only good on the new map

[rich tree]

NO EXTENSION

[fervent light]

Honestly i can do without a paladin class but like if ya were thinking about doing it i think it would be an amazing addition for a class

[fervent light]

Though fighter is pretty much like a paladin anyways

[hallow belfry]

And the cleric can be a paladin too

[fervent light]

True

[old jasper]

Give fighter some battle maneuvers. Let me disarm the barbs!

[rich gazelle]

Yea cleric should be more like a priest imo and Paladin would be like fighter but with magic and not being able to use sprint and all weapon types etc

[lofty cedar]

FUCK IMA EAT A TIDPOD WHY DOES IT HAVE TO END IMA BOMB NEXONS BUILDING(kidding)

[desert geode]

Bard should have access to throwing knives

[hallow belfry]

Or simply make it a passive that you select ? I feel like it would be too hard to sepate the two

[zenith laurel]

Can someone tell me how to change the server from EU to Brazil BEFORE logging to account. It always says unable to connect and quit the game when logging in. But players can play at Brazil server. Please help!!

[rich gazelle]

Yea so specifically what i'm advocating is more broad 2 hander options; warmaul on cleric is a giant meme right now. I'd love using claymore or axes with a lesser healing only type plate wearer

[lofty cedar]

I get the playtest ends tmmr but when will I be able to connect to a server?

[hallow belfry]

QOL i think would be good to have

AOE Markers - When you use any aoe spell, the ground marker is very inconsistant, and simply goes away if you aim too far. I would like an option that if i am aiming at something outside of range, it simply showed/casted the spell at max range

Equipping items in stash - When in the stash, you have no way of seeing what differences weapons make to your stats as these have to be actively equipped before making a difference.

Training Grounds - A simple solo instance where you get to attack dummies with access to your stash so you can try out combos and do some testing for yourself- Have some mobs attacking in a straight line (like overwatch) to test blocking too

A fight recap - Once the server closes, have a way to go back to old games to see damage dealt/received. This would make finding cheaters easier aswell as understanding how you died and why.

A ping estimate on different servers - Self exlplanatory

[leaden marten]

im trying to access the game (just downloaded everything) and it's telling me it's failing to connect to servers when I enter a username and password. No save option.

[carmine steppe]

I would love improvements in the craft system where they could add wood cutting for weapons crafting in the Ruins and maybe plants picking for potions crafting and so you can specialised in a job, having some kind of xp so then you can collect faster, gather more in one time, more/better crafts etc...

[leaden marten]

not sure what to do

[silk mantle]

Changes I believe are critical to improve the game:

• Increase visibility (like previous patches)
• Revert to toolbelt torches (3x)
• Improve the Main menu UI/UX (Merchant, Trading, etc)
• Add Auction House system
• Make it easier to find friends to play with. Group Finder system.
• Improve matchmaking, match people of similar skill/level/account age
• On game launch make sure to add seasonal and permanent character system like Diablo-esk games

[gleaming kettle]

SHIELDS:
Not Viable, take too long to block after an attack animation. Leading to most of us avoiding using it at all, and pvp turning into a little dance that feels awkward. Maybe make the block hitbox smaller? But decrease cooldown after an attack for all classes so you can maybe get a block off once in a while.

Rest Heal: Remove it completely or buff it slightly, takes too long to heal currently, make a 2 minute cooldown after you attack before you can use it (May be abused later to hide behind stuff)

Loot Drops: Add different chests / boxes / just add variety overall to how it feels looting, currently it can feel a bit mundane opening the same 3 chests.

PVE: Add more variety

PVP: Add an Arena Mode! Ladder or ranked mode or something, where we can 1v1-2v2-3v3 with friends in a colosseum closed door style fight, no running away!

Traps: Dungeon Crawlers must have log rolls, spike pits, giant spiky balls swinging from the cealing, fake floors that drop you into a pit of PVE. Less pokey spike walls

Weapons: Increase overall speed of pvp, it can feel a bit too slow at times. You run in, they back up, they run in you back up, no blocking really can be done after the first swing so it just turns into a left click simulator in hopes a buddy will come stab him during your fight. (Mordhau, for honor, last oasis, all did this very very well)

PVE: Allow us to hire NPCs that follow us around, or dogos, something for the players that play solo. Then let us give those NPCS gear / train them etc.

Classes: Necromancer / Dark Mage / Undead class? of sorts would be epic, im sure your warlock will be a nice mix, but the dark arts are just too fun to use in other games.

PVE: Skeleton Spearmen Are impossible to dodge currentlyg

[edgy hound]

i hope they never listen to you

[gleaming kettle]

They wont listen to one person noob, its data. If the same reccomendation pops up, they consider it.... GTFO of here with your useless comment. If you have looked up at all, you will see the same recommendations being said countless times. this isnt the first buddro.

[pearl dome]

Yeah, same

[turbid ermine]

Lot's of words and work went into this.

Shame it's from a skewed point of view of someone who hasn't touched a melee slasher.

[obtuse crane]

`play all ther other class's, and add 150 hours to ur current play time

[green wing]

PVE: Skeleton Spearmen Are impossible to dodge currentlyg --- ????????/ just JUMP

[tidal raptor]

Same I think all your ideas are bad

[edgy hound]

the npc suggestion is actually horrible, speed of pvp is a skill issue

[tidal raptor]

Also they literally added at least 4-5 new mobs to experiment with on this playtest what do you mean more PvE content?

[gleaming kettle]

Jesus bros, relaxxxxxxxx lol its just playing with a few ideas. You guys need to get out more. Dont yall have a manga or an anime to watch or read or something.

[hallow belfry]

I disagree on alot here
Shields can be good, but the way your view interacts with weapons can we wack. Some training would make it better

PVE variety will come with a full launch

Rest heal is like the staple of Dungeons and dragons, removing it would break many classes and make only a few viable whislt removing a core feature of the game its based on

Arena - If you remove running away, every single class that uses spacing will be 100% not viable. Leaving you with fighter and barb

Hireing NPC is not good for so many reasons. I actually don't want to get into it

The classes you mentioned are just not DND inspired so wouldnt fit

Skeleton spearman ... Skill issue here im afraid, running around in circle works

[coral lion]

I think there should just be a place for PVE where players can level up a little bit, obviously the loot shouldn't be as good just grey level. This would make leveling a little easier for new players since you can't access the Gathering Hall till level 5 to play in groups. Also teaches players a little bit about the mobs and what you are up against so to speak.

[tawdry star]

I would honestly love an offline mode for practice between playtests xD

[turbid ermine]

I'm outside right now, won't stop me from telling you to get better.

[gleaming kettle]

If you have an anime, or weeb icon. i dont believe you lolol. your not fooling anyone.

[wet root]

Remove meditation from mage and add colldown from the skills 😴 50% mage gameplays is meditation and meditation...

[tidal raptor]

Very original my guy 10/10

[turbid ermine]

My pfp is from Pyre...the guys that made Hades, but please keep showing how blind you are to the truth.

[gleaming kettle]

Thats offly cool Big J...

[hallow belfry]

You can't just raise ideas that are out of touch then insult people that chalenge said ideas lmao

[turbid ermine]

Gotta love how salty people get when their shitty idea is mostly disagreed with

[graceful pier]

why i get blocked

[turbid ermine]

Buff buckler, currently not worth on cleric because of the 1h slowdown versus a shield

[hallow belfry]

QOL i think would be good to have

AOE Markers - When you use any aoe spell, the ground marker is very inconsistant, and simply goes away if you aim too far. I would like an option that if i am aiming at something outside of range, it simply showed/casted the spell at max range

**Equipping items in stash **- When in the stash, you have no way of seeing what differences weapons make to your stats as these have to be actively equipped before making a difference.

Training Grounds - A simple solo instance where you get to attack dummies with access to your stash so you can try out combos and do some testing for yourself- Have some mobs attacking in a straight line (like overwatch) to test blocking too

**A fight recap **- Once the server closes, have a way to go back to old games to see damage dealt/received. This would make finding cheaters easier aswell as understanding how you died and why.

**A ping estimate on different servers **- Self exlplanatory

**Auction house ** The current system on player to player trading is aweful (IMO)

** Merchants ** I wish some base gear (Whites) Would always be buyable. Wizard for example, feels like poo without a book

[carmine flint]

WHICH ROLE IS MOST IMPACTFUL

[vapid charm]

Wizards- hand crossbow, if they can use regular one. Why not a orb hand cross bow combo.

[lavish palm]

Not that I'm for the idea, but what if the arena was like a little snippet of the map taken at random? With the storm surrounding the outside? Then it's essentially emulating a real match, except now you can focus more on the pvp, and roles that require spacing can make better plays and not just get rolled?

[fringe island]

Auction house will kill the game's economy

[hallow belfry]

Potentially. The current system is not good at all tho. You basicly can't buy/sell something unless you sit staring at words fly by for a long time. A game should want you in game as much as possible.

So maybe a system like Steam trades where you can accept and request trades?

[tight gale]

Depends on for what

Do you mean class or rolls on a weapon of you mean class i think cleric if you mean rolls on a weapon it depends

[willow warren]

How do we submit suggestions?

[wet root]

Bump

[static sundial]

add class summoner and necromance

[fringe island]

I'm not against the developers to experiment with systems to trade between players, but frankly like the current one, because even non-meta items can be sold for a reasonable price if there are no other offers, if the market will not require the presence of the player in the game, it quickly fill up with goods for every taste and non-meta things just no one to sell, except the in-game trader, and on the meta items will greatly reduce the price. In my opinion, enough to improve the current system, first of all, or divide absolutely all things by different classes, or just the opposite to make a room where you can buy things common to all classes padded tunic, leather gloves, etc. And the second is just the same to add a system to place requests for purchase, so that you could knock on the man with a specific offer and price.

[meager jasper]

I've been wondering how they plan to make warlock unique vs wizard. I wonder if they'll go this route anyway. Or maybe they'll just make it so the warlock has a cantrip-style of casting that's more like weapons.

Wizard's not in a great space right now and I'm increasingly gravitating toward fighter. I wonder if warlock'll also be a more viable melee-caster class? I'd be for that if it is. Maybe they'll have the ability to use the crystal sword to greater effect than the wizard does or something? Warlock is way more able to be melee focused in dnd, at least.

[granite plinth]

yeserday late at night i got to experience the forgotten castle filled by solos mostly and some duos here and there. i must say it was the most fun experience i had with the game so far! i believe a solo mode should be added for the forgotten castle as it is the main and most fun map you offer us but it's rough to deal with teams of 3 as a solo player. i do not know how to make this suggestion heard and i hope more people back me up on this because it'd make the game way more enjoyable for me!!!

[meager jasper]

I thought I saw someone claim they plan for duo-mode anyway? But I agree. At very minimum duos in that one should be a thing.

[fiery topaz]

🛡️ 🛡️ EXTEND PLAY TEST 🛡️ 🛡️

[rough gorge]

go back to general chat with your bs we dont need spam down here

[timber dust]

just let them develop the game bruh, be glad you could try it for free

[meager jasper]

I can't disagree more. I love the old school trade system. It's really fun.

An auction-house system becomes rapidly mechanical, and loses the charm of actually trading.

[hallow belfry]

There is a reason why it has been replaced in most games. Its a waste of time for something irelevant. Trading is a means to an end, Spamming in a chatroom is charming to you ?

[meager jasper]

There are filters that work quite well. I don't see any problem at all.

[zinc badge]

Maybe it's a good idea to turn the playtest into a sort of 'pre order beta' where players can pay for early access until the game fully releases. This way the development team gets a little funding for potential better servers etc and people can still play the game while the devs work on the game. I don't see why this would not be a good way to approach the situation right now.

[meager jasper]

This isn't advisable if they are in a lawsuit, as it's very likely if they start charging for anything the courts will tell them to stop while the lawsuit is ongoing, to my understanding. And then they'll have to backpedal and will look bad.

[zinc badge]

Yeah I considered that but didnt know for sure if that was gonna be an issue, I hope the lawsuit works out.

[turbid ermine]

Trading is a skill ceiling. Don't casualize it to make all the fortnite attention span deficit kids happy.

I have so far over 300 hours just tradung between p4 and p5, all of them refining the ways to scam people

[hallow belfry]

It has nothing to do with attention span, I don't want to spend 20 min in between games staring at a wall of text to gear up. I like my time not wasted for no reason thanks.

Id rather be in a map fighting and looting

[meager jasper]

Trading is super important to my experience of this game tbh. I spend a lot of time in between matches wheeling and dealing and it's definitely part of the fun to get good prices for stuff. I don't want a trade system that's just another merchant but the random rolls for equipment are from players essentially with no haggling.

[vale stone]

I think the traiding system is ok for playtests, as it's pretty nostalgic. But in the full game I definetlly want an auction house

[turbid ermine]

Then the game ain't for you. The Q and A clearly states the devs intend for an older feel.

[hallow belfry]

I get what you mean, but like you just said, you spend alot of time. I think thats fine if you are nitpicking. But i should be able to use a system quickly to get back into the game. Look at Albion Online. They had a similar system, they now have gear sets

Tarkov has an auction house aswell. There is a reason why the auction house is included. People like having fun in game

[hallow belfry]

Older feel doesn't mean staring at a screen for 30 min before going into a fight ?

[meager jasper]

Again, there's no issue with spamming messages. I tend to find exactly what I intend to find relatively quickly in trade or it isn't there. It sounds like you literally don't know what you want to buy and are just looking at the whole thing scrolling by.

[vale stone]

+1

[jade ravine]

I think that 99% of crypto/blockchain game things are garbage ponzi's but the tech is a perfect fit as a solution for hosting the authentication, payments and lobby management for dark and darker in a way that it could not be brought down easily. I think just about every fan of this game would be willing to run a node to support such a thing.

[meager jasper]

I'm with bigj on this one. This experience isn't for you then. The trade is the game.

[hallow belfry]

So you are telling me, i can't enjoy a dungeon delving Dungeons and dragons game, because i don't want to trade in a single uniform chat ? Seems very close minded

[meager jasper]

The whole point is an older-feeling trade system that replicates getting out of a delve with loot and hawking the stuff you found.

[raw oriole]

chronicly online behavior, no one with right mind wants to spend 30 mins selling shitty green items to people after every match, auction house is a must

[meager jasper]

Yeah because this is a gear-focused extraction based dungeon delving system with the whole goal being the loot and then the resources you gain from the loot. I would be happy with more functional filters and maybe reorganized chats, but not an auction system.

[ripe saffron]

Yes, doesnt mean we cant add other things to it to make it a better game

[meager jasper]

Shit greens are not sold in the trade at all unless they're of some value. Or they're heavily discounted.

[hallow belfry]

Then what if you want to buy some low level green ? You just can't ? YOu just described why the auction house would be good lmao

[raw oriole]

we caught him, aahhaahhaha

[ripe saffron]

nice one

[meager jasper]

Get good and run a dungeon lol? You can find them lying around in every box. Greens are sold, but only meta-relevant ones unless discounted.

[raw oriole]

I dont see a point in having a spammy trade chat instead of just pressing >green>this stat>buy

[hallow belfry]

Not trying to be a gotcha. But your idea of things would make the game unaccesible for alot of players. And that is bad for the game in the long run

If you only have 2 hours to play (Average game time per day) You legit will have to be in trade chat for at least 1/4 of that. Its just not wise

[ripe saffron]

meta this, meta that, not every thing HAS to be meta.

[meager jasper]

sort by type
click on the first cheap green you see
trade request
it's not hard.

[ruby pendant]

Give us more variety on game modes other than "fortnite chicken dinner gotta get that dub" its going to get stale EXTREMELY fast once the game comes out. I don't see most people playing past a week of that same gameplay loop, EVEN with cool loot.

[raw oriole]

im telling you can smell his sweat

[ripe saffron]

Depends on wipes

[hallow belfry]

What if you play at an hour with not alot of players ?
What if no Cleric is online selling ?
What if what you want is obscure ?

[meager jasper]

Okay Korean Nexon troll please leave.

[raw oriole]

It is if everytime someone pings an item it instantly gets sold if it has "meta" stats, with auction there will be a lot more people selling which means there will be more access to good greens and blues

[meager jasper]

Then it's not being sold.

[ripe saffron]

THIS, i would like to have access to buy decent greens, to a decent price

[raw oriole]

huh?

[meager jasper]

You're not intelligent if you think auction houses give you decent prices. They form stable prices, not good prices.

[hallow belfry]

Bro what ? You are now off base

Supply and demand would mean a steady influx of good value goods, thats like the entire point of a central trading sytsem ?

[meager jasper]

Haggling is how you genuinely get good prices.

[ripe saffron]

you have to be trolling at this point

[hallow belfry]

If its too expensive and no one buys, then the price will lower. Thats the whole point of supply demand

[rose meteor]

I think part of the point is to stop gear becoming too accessible which is good imo

[ripe saffron]

he dont understand or he is a troll, nothing inbeetween

[meager jasper]

I'm the one trolling, lol? Literally all of you are @dim solar everything I say.

[raw oriole]

this guy is not real lmao... Auction house makes sellers compete with other sellers in order to win a customer, i have like 500 hours just in auction house in world of warcraft undercutting other sellers

[hallow belfry]

I don't disagree with that. Accesible or not i don't really care. Im not talking about price really. I just don't want to stare at a wall of text for 10s of minutes

[meager jasper]

Gear being accessible is not desirable imo. Gear scarcity is a feature of this system not a bug.

Right now it matters if you get a good blue with exactly what you want on it. That isn't the case in an auction house. You can just find what you want.

[ripe saffron]

Is that true or just your opinion?

[hallow belfry]

Now you are beeing a gatekeeper for people. With the massive difference in gear power, you want people to get geared and fight. Otherwise people will just run base gear over and over and no one will feel good killing someone

[quaint mural]

I honestly wish they would get rid of trading.

[raw oriole]

Its his first real good opinion

[meager jasper]

Yes.

[dim bear]

Can IronMace make their next playtest on a Launcher... torrenting every patch is becoming a headache especially with these Ddos attacks ruining our game nights with the bois.

[hallow belfry]

You can do the same thing currently. But you have to watch trade chat for hours. Whats the point here ?

[mild lion]

Midway solution: Spend 2000 gold to open a shop that can sell stuff while you're gone that can be searched. Limited inventory

[ripe saffron]

hey, a decent idea

[raw oriole]

Nah imo the gear is still very easy to get, either make auction so its easier to sell shittier items and easier to buy better items or just get rid of trading and auction

[meager jasper]

Scarcity of equipment is genuinely important to this game or the meta will collapse as people become too strong and start unstoppably dominating lobbies with their superior purple gear.

[ripe saffron]

Isnt the game also supposed to be based of DnD?? anyone here played DnD before?

[hallow belfry]

Bro listen. I agree

But the auction house will not increase the ammount of rares. It will just make it less of a hasle to trade em

[ripe saffron]

I feel like that is already happening to some degree

[dim bear]

Yeah I have but it's inspired of it.

[raw oriole]

Facts, if you want scarcity than there should be trade only for uniques

[meager jasper]

That's not true. If I can leave a shit blue on an auction-house I will. Whereas if it's off-meta now I may just sell it to a merchant.

[ripe saffron]

Exactly, then maybe we can get more stuff from DnD or atleast inpirations from it, i would love to see some Guild's, maybe have guild houses etc

[hallow belfry]

Then good ! Its shit so who cares if it sells for cheap ? whats the problem ?

[raw oriole]

You can do 2 goblin runs and get a purple weapon and farm gray geared players, thats what i did last 2 playtests, gear is currently not very rare and easy to obtain

[mild lion]

The +1 MAYBE +2 gear was a lot better this test than half your pieces having +3 last playtest. There should be a gear difference, but not too much

[meager jasper]

Then blues become more common across the whole board and new-runners get strangled out more easily.

[ripe saffron]

Shouldnt trade then only be for greens and blue's? and you can only optain epics etc by finding them?

[meager jasper]

Hell no.

[raw oriole]

im talking about the "legendary' gear or whatever its called

[hallow belfry]

You are saying that currently, there is less good items for sale because people can't be bothered to use the current system. and that having an easier system would increase the ammount of trading.
ISN;T THAT THE POINT OF TRADING ?

[ripe saffron]

If that was the case, no one would be able to buy super good gear, only be able to find it.

[meager jasper]

No, lol. The purpose of trading is to replicate the finnancial side of adventuring in a fun way. Which it is. You just don't like it, and that's fine.

[ember river]

It would FLOOD the game with rares. Instead of junking greens/blues that you dont need, you pop them all up on a "shop" for cheap, because it still makes you a little money. If multiple players do this, the bad greens/blues will flood the market and it would still be better to drop 30 g on a green weapon with bad stat boosts than buy a white/grey one from the merchants. As more and more players dump their low tier greens/blues on the market, the prices go down. Soon it would be dirt cheap to roll into any lobby with full green/blues for under 150g

[raw oriole]

What fun is there to look at spammy chat and get people who cancel trade as soon as you try to negotiate

[meager jasper]

Yeah... and the only in-game reason to trade is to get better gear than you can in the merchants.

[ripe saffron]

Can have mercents only sell things that players put out for sale

[honest owl]

Trading is necessary but I wish it was easier for me to do it without sitting in trade chat, like posting it for sale and leaving it up while I play

[meager jasper]

You've been told already that I find it fun. I know others that do too. And there's people above that do. You're allowed not to like something other people like but trading in this way is fun imo.

[raw oriole]

Yes i agree its fun in concept but currently its just a spamming chat, auction would just sort that chat

[hallow belfry]

Im done. I actually cannot be bothered to listen to old men rationalise antiquated design choices. Right now the only people that use the trade are people that have a long time to spend looking at text. And those people will get good deals out of people who can't be bothered wasting alot of time.

I like beeing in the dungeon myself. So i guess ill horde good gear or sell to a merchant for a fraction of the value like MOST people do

[meager jasper]

Being able to post them to sell is just an auction house. And that's what I don't want to happen. It's haggling and locating currently traded stuff or not at all imo.

[ripe saffron]

i dont think that kind of trading is fun, so i myself hope there is some new system, but i dont want them to just copy world of warcraft or something like that, do trading in a DnD fashion

[meager jasper]

What lol? DnD doesn't have trading, it's just "you sell it at half it's value, the end".

[raw oriole]

I guess trading would be okay if you could sell greens and blues to merchants for more gold...

[meager jasper]

Or are you saying we should have a charisma roll against each other to haggle or something dumb like that?

[ripe saffron]

See what i write: in a DnD kinda fashion, take inspiration, like they have with the classes, like the bard or cleric, i love those classes,

[tough idol]

How do you make new suggestions?

[meager jasper]

The current way best exemplifies how it is to trade in dnd thematically.

It's like going to a marketplace with people shouting at you to buy their shit and finding a buyer. An auction-house has nothing like that. It's just a list with prices and items.

[desert pilot]

I really think the sales fee should be a percentage and not a flat rate. What you guys think?

[ripe saffron]

Kinda, how about having a trade house you have to enter?

[raw oriole]

Its still a list with prices and items, there is no real interaction

[meager jasper]

Lol you don't haggle at all do you? Or list prices yourself.

[hallow belfry]

There are auction houses in large cities but aight

[dim bear]

I would love to see a Drow race with some bit of Dark vision. Guilds and Houses would also be cool, maybe add a Guild Treasure Chest that allows you to put some items into the guild chest maybe for a small fee to make sure that it don't get used and abused

[raw oriole]

Seller: 200, me: can you do 150, seller: cancels trade

[meager jasper]

Yeah people do this irl too if you insult them on a price tag and you don't know the value of something and they do... Or they don't. Again it's completely on-brand for how medieval trading should be.

[raw oriole]

As i said most of the time its basicly auction but unsorted

[meager jasper]

And do you see unwashed adventurers and murderers frequent these places?

[ripe saffron]

I would love to have guild houses, maybe even a ''city'' you could enter, where you would have trading houses, guild houses, etc.

[raw oriole]

You are still not understanding that people dont have time for that shit, trading takes too much time and that is not managable for most players

[dim bear]

Oh, that would be cool

[hallow belfry]

Your not beeing very pedantic bruv

[meager jasper]

Then find a new game lol.

[raw oriole]

this guy ...

[hallow belfry]

And thats how games die

[dim bear]

Maybe use the old tavern spawn as a trading hub and a looking for group area

[meager jasper]

I'm serious. That's like saying "I don't have time to die in Dark Souls". If you're not going to interact with a core system, you're the one in the wrong as far as I'm concerned.

[ripe saffron]

i kinda agree, we should find a midway solution that is something inbeetween both,

[raw oriole]

No its not comparable at all, by your logic it should be like Mordhau? Dead game with only sweats who dont leave their houses

[lament axle]

Core systems can be bad though? That’s literally why there’s a discussion G

[hallow belfry]

No. Completelty different

Its like saying " idon't have time to farm souls to be able to kill a boss"
Trading is not part of the gameplay loop

[ripe saffron]

and have a quest board, etc inside ? 😄

[ripe saffron]

''core''system, can be changed and improved upon.

[meager jasper]

Sure but loudness of "backlash" doesn't change the fact it's stupid. And it's exactly the same. People constantly complain that the beginning of OG dark souls is too hard, but don't really understand that past the first difficult enemies is more difficult enemies that will kill you rapidly.

The point isn't to make a system easy or accessible. It's to create a particular experience, and this does that.

[dim bear]

Omg, quests: "Kill 10 Skeletons, 10 spiders and 1 Wraith for 50gp"

That would give people more of a chance to gain loot whilst dying 24/7 xD

[meager jasper]

As for quests we definitely need quests, but they're definitely being implemented already, there's a space for them set aside in the UI.

[raw oriole]

a particular experience that takes 1/4 of your time for no reason at all

[ripe saffron]

It should be quests you would have to complete without dying i feel like

[lament axle]

If I put you into a game where you move at .001 mph the entire game. It’s not fun bc it’s hard, it’s just annoying. You just don’t know what bad game mechanics are

[meager jasper]

Dying in dark souls vs progressing also takes a lot of time. It can even be frustrating at times.

[raw oriole]

can you stop comparing a spammy trade chat with dark souls holy shit there is no middle ground there

[dim bear]

I feel like maybe quests do both, "must survive to complete quest" and "can be completed whilst dying"

[shrewd lagoon]

Wiz needs some form of buff, there were very few wizards I encountered. Analytics should show that the wizard is too soft right now to be viable to most

[meager jasper]

It's a good analogy, so no. Again I've already said you're allowed to not like the experience of something but tbh I think you're just being whiny about something that's core to the experience for me.

[dim bear]

I'm so confused, why are you constantly talking about dark souls, this isn't even that type of game?

[ripe saffron]

yeah, good idea, better rewards for surviving quests, and then decent quests for newbies to get money or gear, best of both worlds

[raw oriole]

Im not talking about dark souls, its this guy @meager jasper

[meager jasper]

I'm specifically talking about a mechanic that people think is frustrating but is important to the game.

[dim bear]

Fair enough, my apologies 😅

What dying and not being able to extract? Sounds like a skill issue imo.

[raw oriole]

Its not same mechanic, diying in darksouls improves your skills so you can kill the boss but getting frustrated at spamming chat doesnt do anything for you

[meager jasper]

learning the values of items and how to haggle also improves your gear and makes you better overall.

[raw oriole]

he is comparing trade chat with dark souls idk why

[dim bear]

You can't even trade in DS

[raw oriole]

He is high on something

[marsh musk]

🛡️ 🛡️ JUST 2 MORE DAYS 🛡️ 🛡️

[vocal spoke]

I have a suggestion once you finish the bard mini game for song, you should be able to use your weapon straight away while the effect is still going on

[meager jasper]

No. Trade. But I'm guessing you're just trolling by intentionally misunderstanding a very basic statement so I'm out now.

[raw oriole]

haggling is out of the debate as 95% of the time there is no haggling and its just "cancel trade"

[meager jasper]

Again, you are just revealing how bad you are at it.

[marsh musk]

We need to create a new copypasta or we won’t ever get to play this game again

🛡️ 🛡️ JUST 2 MORE DAYS 🛡️ 🛡️

[ripe saffron]

He is just saying people complain about dark souls for its difficulty and wants an EASY mode, but the develepors say that its meant to be like that, fail, try again and then succeed, and he is then comparing dark souls combat to a '' EARLY ACCESS trading window that SHOULD be improved on later

[dim bear]

It's okay, you can't fix stupid. He is just trying to say that removing Trade will better the game. I don't think so because legendary items for a character that u don't play will just be a waste of space and efforts, so why not sell it for a few grand?

[meager jasper]

Improved, not replaced with an auction house.

[raw oriole]

auction house is litteraly techonology that improved trading in big cities

[meager jasper]

It removes all interaction. It's terrible.

[ripe saffron]

And im also saying to maybe do something different then an auction house, and something better then a trading chat window, thats why we have this chat, to talk about improvments, we should attack eachothers arguments, not eachother personaly

[meager jasper]

But you're still arguing this point again and again so I'm out, you're just saying the same thing over and over to justify yourself at this point.

[vocal spoke]

Why not both ?

[raw oriole]

currently there is littrealy no interaction

[meager jasper]

No one will go into a chat to trade if there's an auction house. Go and look at how oldschool runescape is. That's still an option there but no one does it.

[raw oriole]

People who like trade like you would, right?

[meager jasper]

No because we'd be completely undercut on all levels because there would be no reach and we'd be competing with static lowest-possible-prices.

[raw oriole]

which is good, overpaying for some shitty green is not healthy for the economy

[meager jasper]

What a pointless thing to say.

[raw oriole]

Like half your sentances

[ripe saffron]

How about having a trading/auction house that you would have to travel to or go to, where people would be trading and you could also ''buy'' spots on tables where npc's could sell your stuff for you for a price ofc, limited space for those, and would up the prices of epics and legendary

[warm canyon]

Well an auction house would only make sense for named uniques or god roll legendaries.

[ripe saffron]

so that the interaction is there, and voice could be used

[raw oriole]

completley opposite, it would make sense for all of rarities so you can easily form a build

[dim bear]

I prefer to haggle so I like the back and forward chat, makes u feel like some people are worth trading with. There's a few people I've added because of a successful haggle and just always ask them if they have anything available or ask them to look for something. I feel that in an already hostile environment some interactions are quite nice

[meager jasper]

Not really, if we assume we're getting a similar tax on goods as exists now, there's no reason not to sell every single green you get there, since merchants don't offer competitive prices at all.

[warm canyon]

Well auctions are used for novelty or the highest of tiers of items, but alr ig.

[raw oriole]

My solution is: Implement Auction house with bigger tax OR implement a better sorting system and increase sell value of all items to merchants

[dim bear]

AMEN!!!

[meager jasper]

I would hate an auction house with listable goods. It's the sorting system that needs to be slightly improved. But you already have filters and you really haven't said why you don't use them effectively.

[raw oriole]

Also let me add: for trade the tax should be based on items value, meaning green items gray/white items have no tax, green items 5 gold, blue 10, epic 20, unique 100

[warm canyon]

I think that they should add a rare creature that is really fast that can drop valuable loot if you kill it. Like a loot goblin.

[meager jasper]

The tax is where it's at for a reason as a minimum I think. It's a conscious decision to prevent most whites being sold there.

[raw oriole]

I wouldnt have a problem with trade if there wasnt so much time involved, majority of fanbase doesnt have 30 minutes to sell their item hence why i said there should be increase for selling green/blue items to merchants

[raw oriole]

talking about potions throvables etc not white weapons and armor, my biggest problem is selling greens and blue as i said

[warm canyon]

If you can’t really sell a green or blue, that can barely be sold for 25g, what’s the point of increasing the price on the merchants if it’s an indifference?

[raw oriole]

wdym?

[warm canyon]

There’s some greens and blues that people are literally not willing to buy bc they don’t find worth into doing so, merchants may sell it for a low price but what true impact is it if you’re essentially just trying to get rid of it in the first place. Most often then not, for me personally, it takes space. Unless I’m missing something from this conversation…

[raw oriole]

Im not trying to get rid of it, im trying to make money on it. On trade it takes too much time and for merchants it pays too little

[tender grove]

I Hope darkI hope that DaD can be opened for purchase earlier. I want to play DaD every day, and I also accept playing DaD while assisting in game development and providing feedback. I hope that the game will be opened for purchase in Steam today

[warm canyon]

But you said that there’s greens and blues are difficult to sell, and some people don’t even want it for 25g

[raw oriole]

Yes, increase sell price to merchants, reduce tax in trade. Less bad and more good items in trade

[warm canyon]

So there’s no real point in making an effort to try and find the “perfect” customer who’s going to buy that item so sometimes it is best to just sell it to the merchant, even though it’s a low price.

[raw oriole]

If it's a good roll it will be sold to trade chat, if it's +0.9 action speed it will be sold to a merchant

[warm canyon]

We’re talking about bad rolls though, right? Ok, then based on rarity the merchants should pay more then

[raw oriole]

Talking about both here. Both rolls would be faster to sell

[raw oriole]

Fixed price for merchant selling, green=30-50g, blue 50-70g

[dusky field]

There has to be an item and money drain on the game, so keeping the tax, or even making it higher by adding a % of gold being spent, would be a good idea. Increasing the merchants' payment would only create inflation. Everyone will simply start asking for higher prices for every single item while our gold bags can still only hold 50 gold.

[warm canyon]

That’s too much, inflation.

[raw oriole]

How so ? Currently you earn same by trading it

[meager jasper]

Steam is under DMCA, and after lawsuit they will not re-list something unless a lawsuit issued alongside a DMCA is resolved.

[raw oriole]

Maybe make it so the more greens you sell throughtout the day the price decreases by little?/

[warm canyon]

It removes the purpose of trading, that’s too much. Also imagine the prices people would put.

[dusky field]

Why do you wanna fix something that isn't broken, though?

[raw oriole]

It doesnt remove the purpose, you would still not want to sell a good green for 30g instead of sellking it on auction for 90

[raw oriole]

Whole discussion is about trade chat being broken and unbearable to look at

[ripe saffron]

The discussion is how to improve the trading, thats what we want

[raw oriole]

Yeah im giving ideas they might be good or bad thats why we argue

[warm canyon]

Trade chat is fine imo, you’re trying to fix prices, that would mean that EVERYTHING would have to change price, everyone would have a bunch of money, because regardless of what they have they can just sell it to the merchant.

[dusky field]

It's supposed to be like that, otherwise you will just have a Diablo 3 Auction House situation. You cannot make trading easy. And you cannot increase merchant prices or you simply create inflation.

[visual pulsar]

You cant fix the price based on rarity. Ever find a blue Ranger hood with Will and knowledge on it? Meanwhile you find a green item with better stats than a blue that rolled like trash? DOesnt make sense to fix the prices into merchants. Go trade. The items stats are rolled in this game.

[ripe saffron]

It being broken and unbearable is YOUR opinion, its not that broken, but boring and lackluster? yes

[raw oriole]

My whole point is it takes too much time, and thats not my opinion its a fact

[ripe saffron]

Thats true, i agree on that point

[warm canyon]

I sold nearly 400g in less than ~15 and they were all blues, greens, and like a 1 purp I think.

[raw oriole]

Yes when u have good rolls, bad rolls are very hard to sell

[dusky field]

It's also a fact that if trading wasn't complicated, then people would play the Auction House instead of playing the game. It's Diablo 3 all over again. "We have to fix current trading" is not a fact, that is 100% your opinion. And it's the wrong opinion to have

[raw oriole]

whats with diablo 3 im not informed

it is a fact that it takes too much time for an average player

Also there are sweats currently just trying/manipulating prices, instant trading when they see a cheaper purple and so on

[pallid sleet]

I have no issues selling or buying gear, and enjoy the dynamics of trade hall

[raw oriole]

So you still do have people not playing the game instead playing trade chat

[trim maple]

Do you not think thats the intention of the system to give people the opportunity to make gold in other ways than running the dungeon?

[dusky field]

When Diablo 3 launched and up until the Reaper of Souls expansion, they made sure that trading wasn't an issue by having an auction house. What ended up happening was that it was more profitable to just buy and sell items in the AU than actually playing the game, so people would spend 90% of their time trading until they changed their "good" gear for "perfect" gear. In DaD it would be even worse, since gear is not only needed for PVE but for PVP, so noone is gonna want to enter undergeared to the dungeon. In the end the only fix was to take the AU out when they released the expansion. I'm sure there are video essays that can explain it better on youtube tho

It's the problem of making trade as easy as it can be

[ripe saffron]

This is ALSO very true

[tribal cradle]

call it realism

[raw oriole]

You do realize its also a problem here? people still just take advantage of prices and insta buy cheap purple and sell it for more

[pallid sleet]

Can you not see how auctions would make that more prevalent?? Also why is that even a problem?

[warm canyon]

I don’t bother with bad rolls I quicksell them, anyone who is buying gear has good money, there’s no point in selling bad gear for rarity appropriate prices. You need to take in account the item too, I had a blue buckler with +10 armor rating and nobody wanted it, I had to compensate by adding a clever message and a decent price, but nobody uses a buckler.

[dusky field]

Except that it takes a lot of work and its the minority of people that does it? Especially since it can be so cumbersome. Do you prefer 9% of people doing it, or 90%?

And if it were made easier do you think people won't do it anyway? They'll just wait for someone to publish something for a low price and instantly buy it, just as it happens now. Except now since trade invitations overlap, it's not always the first one to invite to trade the one that gets it.

[warm canyon]

A heater shield with +10 armor rating can sell for a lot more.

[trim maple]

If ur patient enough you can sell anything for almost any price

[raw oriole]

The number wouldnt change much becouse you can only have so much sweats, problem i have with auction house is that people will find ways to "cheat" it by making bots like in wow

[warm canyon]

Takes a long time to find the “perfect customer” for that item. Sometimes never.

[raw oriole]

Which brings me back to my point in trade taking too much time for selling bad items.

[dusky field]

Why are you picking up bad items in the dungeon, and even worse, why are you trying to sell them on trade?????

[ripe saffron]

There is a market for everything, so why not

[tribal cradle]

like in real life supply and demand is a thing, once the prices get to high they will lower

[raw oriole]

Im not picking bad items thats the thing, i should be able to pick them and sell them for very cheap price to merchant but not this cheap

[dusky field]

I mean yeah, I guess you can pick up every green spellbook and try to sell them on bundles of 4 for 50g. But don't expect people to queue up and give you 100g for bad items with bad rolls...

[raw oriole]

thats why i say increase sell price based on rarity instead of selling green item for 5g

[trim maple]

The key is patience vs impatience. An impatient buyer will usually buy expensive items for higher prices. An impatient seller will usually sell expensive items for cheap. A patient buyer will wait for an impatient seller. A patient seller will wait for an impatient buyer. Really, it's not that much about how you do it, but it's about patience

[raw oriole]

I CAN still sell them to trade but it would take time which is a problem

[dusky field]

You said you wanted 50g from merchants for every green. I think you don't understand the level of inflation that would bring about...

[ripe saffron]

im not expecting that, but what i would like to have myself is a market where decent gear could be sold, not only very good gear, witch it is now,

[raw oriole]

I just gave suggestion, i realise its bad but it can be worked on

[tribal cradle]

being able to sale them, higher to merchant only will mean everything will get more expensive xd

[fiery ledge]

Thoughts on this:
•Roll the game back to PT#3/4
•Don't focus on new maps
•Instead expand upon the existing systems and the systems that have yet to come (class system/skill system/crafting system)

[raw oriole]

Just threw a random number at it tbh, but current prices are way too low thats for sure

[ripe saffron]

Thats why we have this chat, even tho we are going to push out alot of bad ideas here, some are going to be good in the long term

[blissful ore]

All the butthurt whiners ruined any chance at an extension, I had a few crashes here and there but I’m not a literal TODDLER who doesn’t UNDERSTAND THAT THIS INDIE STUDIO IS TRYING ITS BEST delivering downloads and patches and servers while under attack from a GIANT MEGA CORP.

Im so sick of these entitled brats shitting on everything that isn’t perfectly catered to their TikTok addled brains.

There are thousands of us normal adults who had a great time despite the understandable server issues. You idiot zoomers that have been melting down all week, please go back to valorant and buy $200 skins on their perfectly stable servers like good little gamers you are.

THIS!!!

[raw oriole]

Bro this randoms jumping in are npcs

[dusky field]

What is good and what is decent is always compared and contrasted to every other piece of gear out there. And the easiest way to define what's good and what's decent is the market, AKA people buying stuff. If people don't wanna buy a falchion with +3 will, no matter how much you point out that it's purple, you won't get 300g out of it.

[tribal cradle]

being able to get more gold from npcs mean everything will get more expensive

[nova pasture]

Let me dual wield hand crossbows you coward devs

[trim maple]

Yea thats why you trade first, check item second.

[raw oriole]

Im not saying that, im telling you that it should be a bit more gold per sale on greens but still MUCH less than trading greens with good stats

[trim maple]

You can quicksell almost any green weapon for 50g and any green boot or glove for 30g

[raw oriole]

Thats why i say there should be a bit of a price increase on those shitty items that no one wants but are still kinda valuable

[ripe saffron]

im not saying you should sell falcons with 3+ will, but it should be a market for decent green and decent blues' right now its only a marked for very GOOD blue's epics and legendary. we only have the very best, not anything for the middle. how about a auction house for ONLY greens? or something i dont know

[feral bronze]

I met a cute boy on DnD thank you ironmace

[visual pulsar]

Nah

[warm canyon]

No you can’t lmfao, a good green is around 50g

[compact edge]

Vendors are just for getting decent gear once you've made cash.
Their selection could be a little bigger but by no means your gear progression should be made through vendors alone.
Selling random gear you've found is more of a 'I didn't find any valuable junk to sell to the collector' so you make do with what you got.

Trading is a different case.
Depending on the item quality & effects will be the base of the item's worth
As well as how greedy is the seller because people will overprice basic gear

tldr trade is fine and selling to vendors is fine. stop picking up gear you're not going to use/no one wants

[tribal cradle]

i mean a green with good stats is as valuable as a purple with bad ones. ///edit meant you mean* not i mean

[dusky field]

They're not valuable. You're just attached to the fact that it's purple and you feel like you should get some gold out of it even if it's useless. If you do that all you do is inflation, push prices up and suddenly good items stop being 600g and start being 1000g.

[visual pulsar]

Some purples can be worth 0g. If you get caster stats on a ranger hood. It aint selling.

[warm canyon]

Simply because it’s not a purple, people are not going to equate it’s value to a purple. As ridiculous as it may seem, that’s how it just is.

[trim maple]

Some decent ones will sell for 80g

[raw oriole]

still not getting my point, im talking about smaller shit that no one wants but everyone has

[tribal cradle]

i chocked , i was rying to say that and said the opposite xd

[visual pulsar]

Color is not indicative of price or quality. A purple can have more stats and higher stats rolled. But if the stats are not useful to that class then its worth nothing.

[warm canyon]

That’s a GOOD green then.

[warm canyon]

Exactly

[hallow belfry]

I just want to buy shit quickly and get back into the dungeon. And the current system does not allow that

[trim maple]

I mean most ppl buy my 50g greens within like 7 seconds so i mean skill issue ig shrug

[compact edge]

Reminds me of a purple falchion on a fighter I killed in goblin
literally just a falchion (only good thing was the 1.5% health bonus)

[visual pulsar]

Merchant stuff is cheap. 1 or 2 good escapes will put you at 200-300g and you can buy all the consumables you need. No reason to increase merchant gold. Legit no reason.

[tender grove]

Oh, this will take a long time, it's too terrible

[visual pulsar]

I have found multiple ranger hoods with +will and + knowledge lol. Or spell casting speed. and stuff that just offers the class nothing.

[warm canyon]

Ok dud

[dusky field]

If it's smaller shit that noone wants, noone will pay you for it. Everyone has it, so it's easy to get. But you want someone to pay for it, AKA the merchant. Which again, produces inflation.

Dude, inflation is not so hard to understand. And then they have to change gold bags to hold 100g instead of 50. Then everyone pushes prices up. Then you'll be here complaining about your useless shit that everyone has not being more valuable.

[ripe saffron]

If we sell to eachother, that wont create more money atleast

[trim maple]

still if its like bad rolls or some shit yea its better to just list it as free i do agree with that

[visual pulsar]

Hes not getting it just dont bother. Maybe they are struggling to afford consumables and just want to health potions and stuff.

[compact edge]

picks up gear no one wants

wtf why is no one buying

[raw oriole]

It wouldnt produce inflation becouse it wouldnt be valuable, its not a big increase its just so u can buy essentials if you dont get collector shit to sell after a run

[dusky field]

I swear, I never saw someone fail to understand inflation. Dude just wants to go full Zimbabwe and print billion-dollar bills for everyone.

[visual pulsar]

Its not about selling it to PEOPLE. When EVERYONE makes more GOLD from MERCHANTS than EVERYONES prices on GOOD GEAR will go up and it will close the cost/value gap increase youve created lol

[raw oriole]

Whats a current vendor price for a green item?

[torn pike]

upgrade your servers and stop crying about a lawsuit almost every game dev deals with

[visual pulsar]

Bro when everyone has more gold..... ya know what. Never mind. You arent understand how price economy works.

[ripe saffron]

This is true, yeah

[trim maple]

honestly i just wish different rarities of items other than sellable trinkets were worth more to merchants

[compact edge]

Greens have unironically been carrying me thhrough my solo only fighter
Goblin is just biased (for me) on fighter drops.
But the amount of just bad gear people pick up thinking they'll make a quick buck is laughable, like STOP PICKING IT UP.

They'll just SIT in trade and waste their time.

[raw oriole]

I dont disagree with that at all but incresing a price for like 5-10g wouldnt make it so purples jump from 500 - 1000

[visual pulsar]

It just doesnt need to be 5-10g. It solves nothing lol. Ask for merchant prices to be lower then lol

[trim maple]

Also did anyone else notice how weapons were bugged and the stat bonuses from them specifically didnt apply

[visual pulsar]

What do you want out of the extra 5-10g. Maybe explain that. Why do you feel merchant prices are too low? You telling me you dont have a stash full of gold right now? You dont have all of the bandages and potions and bonfires you could ever want? How? How dont you lol

[compact edge]

May I ask what your playstyle is

Are you a killer or a rat?

[dusky field]

Well, the collector shit is where most of your money comes from, that's why you should prioritize it. If you want regular items to be more in-line with collector jewels, that's a different discussion. IMO the prices are okay as they are now, since you have a clear objective on what to look for and what to prioritize when dungeon running. But then that comes to personal taste.

[visual pulsar]

Legit go watch some farming/loot guides on youtube or something.

[dusky field]

Bro my fighter is so rich right now, a poor random dude tried to sell me a god-tier cape for 300g and I just had to give the guy 500g instead

[raw oriole]

you are gonna judge, i have a route in goblin mode that nets me 200g + like 3 greens/blue (sometiems epic) than i buy the best gear i can and i go do the same root but with more protection until i hit full purple with some uniques

[visual pulsar]

You just need to inform yourself and understand the strategy of hoarding gold and making money. Its not wild hard.

[torn pike]

upgrade your servers so people can actually play and stop crying about a lawsuit almost every game dev deals with, but thats just a suggestion

[ripe saffron]

Who mod/dev can italk to to send something about the game???

[visual pulsar]

200g a run and wants 5-10g increase. I call cap.

[ripe saffron]

im getting 1 million party invites, i think that is føcking up the game/servers

[torn pike]

upgrade your servers so people can actually play and stop crying about a lawsuit almost every game dev deals with, but thats just a suggestion

[raw oriole]

It's true man, i play rogue and there is 3 rooms litteraly so close u can do it in 1 minute and just escape into darkness with 150-250 gold

[ripe saffron]

By bots ofc.

[visual pulsar]

Sounds like youre making a healthy amount if its true. Youre either exaggerating or lying. Why would you want 5-10g increase on trash loot lol?

[raw oriole]

Becouse i think the price is not reasonable

[torn pike]

upgrade your servers so people can actually play and stop crying about a lawsuit almost every game dev deals with, but thats just a suggestion

[dusky field]

Dude is making 200g a run but wants to increase the prices of dirty items so that his 200g runs are devalued due to inflation. He's an altruist

Or the kush is a bit strong

[visual pulsar]

Sorry you feel that way. But youre alone on an island of delusional prices.

[visual pulsar]

I think hes just lying tbh. No one making 200+ gold a run is crying about 5-10g a piece increase lol.

[compact edge]

I mean that's how I started my solo only fighter for goblin lol
but do realize picking up random stuff no one wants to buy is going to clog up your own inventory if you are not going to use it

[tribal cradle]

more gold for evryone means everyting more expensive cuz gold is less rare

[raw oriole]

its not every run of course, but a like everysecond it is, depends if i get lucky or not

[visual pulsar]

Prob just grabbing loot for someone else to bonk him before escaping. Legit collecting gold as a rogue for some fighter or barbarian to take it xD

[dusky field]

He's 100% lying cause he's dying on a lonely hill of his own making. But you know how the internet is like

[tribal cradle]

server is up

[raw oriole]

Hey @visual pulsar @dusky field do you guys think 7g for a green is reasonable?

[visual pulsar]

Suggestion: Cloudflare please. Youre not using it

[trim maple]

i like buying purple quicksales and selling them for double the price

[dusky field]

Yes, because green items are utter crap and I don't collect them to get gold unless I haven't found any other thing in the dungeon, and I don't expect to make 200g on every single run, AND I also understand how inflation works.

[visual pulsar]

Yeap. Greens are self use gear. Green/blue gems and dumping trash loot all at once makes a nice bank during a run. Its absolutely reasonable.

[raw oriole]

whatever we can disagree but i think upping the price to 10 or 12 would be completley fine for the ecenomy but can give extra money for bandages etc

[visual pulsar]

I dont pick up items that are 4 or 6 slot and dont return a healthy gold value per 1 item slot. Please go read a looting guide @raw oriole

[tribal cradle]

there is no unreasonable price, literally the base of the economy

[visual pulsar]

makes 200g a run but needs more gold for 15g bandages xD

[raw oriole]

Also i am making that much money idk why u mention it everytime are you jealous or soemthing? i play good rogue but i cant do it on example fighter,cleric,barb. A lot of times you end up extracting without valuables and only green items

[dusky field]

Right?

[trim maple]

if i could react i would use a skull emoji on that

[visual pulsar]

User problem. Go watch some streamers so you can see other players inventories. Its a you issue. not a game issue.

[raw oriole]

I guess there is my another suggestion to make transfering gold to other characters possible

[dusky field]

YOU can't make it on fighter, cleric etc cause you don't know how to use those characters. I have a filthy rich Fighter to the point that it was annoying cause I had no space on the stash. Everyone has a different playstyle, and when you want to learn a new character, don't expect to come out of the dungeon and make 200g selling green items on every run.

[trim maple]

skull emoji II

[raw oriole]

I got around 4k gold on my rogue and litteraly pennies on other classes

[visual pulsar]

I made it in a lobby, im gonna go play

[dusky field]

Someone had already made this suggestion back when suggestion-making was possible. The discussion was made and the conclusion was that this was an awful idea.

[mild lion]

You can transfer gold to other characters, just make a second mule account. Costs 15g a trade and getting an alt to level 5 but easy

[raw oriole]

oh thats smart, might do that

[visual pulsar]

User malfunction. Not a class issue. I dont wanna hit you with gitgud because it sucks to hear. But this case feels pretty strong.

[raw oriole]

Never said i was good at anything except a rogue 🙂

[trim maple]

then why do u only have pennies on other classes

[fiery topaz]

🕓 🕓 !!EXTEND THE PLAYTEST!! 🕓 🕓

[visual pulsar]

Then why are you trying to ask the devs to update how much gold you get from merchant sells because youre bad at other classes?

Idk, you're being obtuse.

[dusky field]

I swear our guy here is smoking some of the strongest kopium kush out there. He's got that 101% purity stuff

[raw oriole]

You guys should learn from previous 2 guys that i was arguing, stop being objective and make it a middleground so we can acctualy make a discussion about whats good and not

[visual pulsar]

Def a concentrate. Straight glass

[somber dagger]

Hey, im a new player here. I was thinking about suggesting a practice mode there you can play with other, loot, extract, go down etc. , but if you extract you don't get any xp or item that you've looted. I think it would be great for new players to try out new classes, strats and generally get better at the controls and movement.

[ripe saffron]

:Salute: TURN OFF TEAM INVITE THIS IS HOW THEY DDOS :Salute: WE ARE GETTIng 100 invites / a sec that how we are logging off and lagging us ! REPOST

[trim maple]

there is, its called 'playing naked'

[raw oriole]

That is a good point, those poor gray geared bozos should not be facing my god roll dagger

[ebon idol]

That is a nice idea. But you should consider going in with no equip as practice mode. You got nothing to lose, and all the knowledge and potential equip to win.

[trim maple]

no one has the heart to attack a naked bard

[somber dagger]

is it good to filling normal lobbies with instant dead players?

[raw oriole]

Should be similar to tarkov scav run

[visual pulsar]

And he ends with a tilted nose up and climbing for highground. Sorry fam. You said you made 4k gold on your Rogue. You can make 200+g in caves easily, and every other class you play is broke. You showed your hand. And you want an extra 5-10g per item sold at merchant... I dont think so.

[dusky field]

That discussion has already been made also. It's a looter extraction game, not a COD matchmaking system.

[rocky copper]

My suggestion is a new role called “The trouser bandit”. He can steal your trousers and use them in a blinding attack where he throws them over your eyes.

[ebon idol]

Just like in a practice run, you have nothing to lose. What else would you want from a practice dungeon run? Nothing to lose, experience to win. Now even practicing with real players.

[raw oriole]

Okay then agree to disagree let's move to another topic which @somber dagger mentioned, which is why am i allowed to go full purple inside a goblin solo filled with gray gears

[fair bluff]

Please make solo play much more rewarding than just farming for gold to go into HR... Not everyone has teams to jump in at start with 3s. Some of the people at the top of the ladder aren't there cause of some incredible skill, but simply because they hit the ground running with 3s. A solo player should have just as much opportunity for growth... be it solo bosses or solo quests or whatever.

Do not make this game into a MMO where we just build Tank, Healer and DPS... its dumb!!

[ebon idol]

Why wouldn't you be? You earned your gear, time to use it.

[trim maple]

yes thats the best way to farm gaves w/o dying wym

[raw oriole]

Last 20 games was me one shotting gray gears for their gold

[somber dagger]

it is not about gear, my point is about getting better at movement, controls, skills usage etc.

[dusky field]

Because it's the intention of the game to focus on dungeon crawling instead of competitive matchmaking. It's not about killing other players, it's about looting. You should be picking your fights if you're on all grey.

[raw oriole]

Yeah i know and im abusing it, and you got these 2 bozos not believing my 200g per run ahahahhah

[sand estuary]

Could we get seasons like in diablo 2? Hard reset on stash etc. Seperate leaderboards? New arsenal added each season and then adpated to the main game afterwards? Something to keep things fresh! Would be neat in my oppinion

[ebon idol]

You can easily make 200g per run in goblin caves without killing anyone.

[raw oriole]

yeah ofc but than it becomes a grind and not a fun activity which it should be

[dusky field]

It's not about not believing it. It's about you making 200g per run and still crying to sell greens for 50g to merchants. Seems like a weird thing to want your 200g to de-value itself with those levels of inflation

[trim maple]

i feel like if u were farming all of goblin caves for kills as rogue and being as mobile as a geared rogue can be now u could easily get 500+g per run

[night relic]

So hear me out: Monk class
Strength 10
Agility 25
Will 20
Knowledge 10
Resourcefulness 10
Proficiency with quarterstaff, light armor, short bow,
Perks: unarmored proficiency; while not wearing a helmet, gloves, or chest armor, your armor ratting is increased by your (agility + will)x2.2 and your movent speed is increased by your agility score.
Deflecting palm, projectile; you have only active while unarmed, you have 75% projectile damage reduction, and when hit by a projectile that rapidly deteriorates to 10% over 5seconds, while not in combat this value slowly regenerates back to 75% over 26 seconds.
Way of open hands; Replace your unarmed attack with a quick two punch/jab combo and the right click with a block/perry, replaces your base attack damage for punches with your agility score -5.
Quarterstaff mastery; quarterstaff attack becomes a quick joust/spin/joust combo dealing 80%/100%/80%, and the block becomes larger and when a defense is successful you press back back in quick succession to reposition.
Deflecting palm, magic; while not wearing a helmet, gloves or shirt you gain your will score as magic damage reduction, only one "Deflecting palm" can be selected at a time unless the "way of open hands" is active.
Deflecting palm, Glancing blow; while not wearing head, glove or chest armor, you gain 15% physical damage reduction, only one "Deflecting palm" can be selected at a time unless the "way of open hands" is active.
Way of the drunken Fighter; triples the duration of ale and while under the effects of it gain damage reduction of all types equal to the strength modifier of the ale, and heal 1% hp every 5 seconds while using it,
Ability:
Scion of scale; replaces one of your belts with spell slots use the belt button to switch between up to 3 that are selected through the spell menu in skills/ability menu. You can harness the powers of dragons as your studies have taught you their origins for power, by using (ability key-bind) activate the selected power.

[fair bluff]

Probably better to go with PoE style, separate the new season from old/standard one so ppl don't lose everything

[ebon idol]

Just be the first at the shelves and leave. Also, greys teaming up to bring down better equipped players should be a thing, that is why we can see the lobby and the players in it. Find out if someone is especially threatening and find allies if so.

Everyone who doesn't and gets mowed by purples just isn't using their Tools.

[raw oriole]

MY 50g was just dumb throw number, more realisticly i was thinking 10-15

[sand estuary]

Yeah exactly like that

[trim maple]

also, cave troll

[raw oriole]

Feels too clunky to learn with a rogue

[dusky field]

And that 10-15 would still cause some pretty high inflation. But yeah, at this point Idk why even bother

[trim maple]

i'm pretty sure thats a skill issue but even i cant beat that mf so i cant judge

[raw oriole]

It wouldnt really, currently its at 7 g, upping it to 10 would mean no diffrence except maybe 1 free bandage lol

[dusky field]

So you make 200g per run but you still want your bandages and potions to be free? I swear you make less sense the more you speak

[raw oriole]

Nah its def a skill issue i just dont feel like its worth putting time into learning it cause its not enjoyable combat for me.

[ebon idol]

People demonising party ups in goblin caves are idiots. But not as much as grey players believing them. Greys unite against the land... gear-owners!

[raw oriole]

Why are you talking about me? Not everyone makes 200 per run

[raw oriole]

dont call me an idiot, call me a revolutionarist or whatever the word is. They need to make a new gamemode for lower geared players 😄

[somber dagger]

it is sad then they team up against other greys

[turbid ermine]

Ye I xan make 150-2k per run depending on if I find a stacked player

[sweet charm]

hey i wanted to run something by everyone here
but first have a question for those currently in post secondary(college, univerisity, etc.) are you all also currently in finals week? (the last week with all the final exams and projects for the current semester)
because what im suggesting for the devs to close the game down for thursday and friday quickly patch up whatever they can then reopen the game for saturday sunday and possibly monday before closing the test for a longer period

[trim maple]

Honestly a good set of meds only cost around 80g from merchants only, I just wish they'd make higher rarity potions obtainable in ways other than the dungeon so you could buy them for stable prices in the market.

[ebon idol]

Bring down the gear elite!

[somber dagger]

nah finals only in june

[raw oriole]

Whats a new player that just opened the game gonna do versus my fully geared rogue who can just 1 hit with poision lol

[trim maple]

Die lol

[regal lotus]

Hide, rat, get out, get money

[vague harness]

I got a sug, Don’t make people limewire the worst version produced of your game then only keep it up for like 5 days

[somber dagger]

dont get on your eyes

[vague harness]

Played once dungeon and got off game is so sad now

[raw oriole]

In order to make change i had to become a villain, maybe they will realise why some people leave

[ebon idol]

All the rage - disengage. Unless you are a cleric, then you die.

[raw oriole]

I started doing that only cause i got killed by other ultra geared people in goblin mode, so i jsut beecame one of them

[somber dagger]

how many people leave heroin? less leave dnd

[vague harness]

No one wants to infect their computer with macaffee to play this mids play test

[raw oriole]

Yeah ofc but it doesnt change the fact that you shouldnt be able to go fully geared vs defaults

[regal lotus]

I suspect that they don't want to extend the test bc of copyright claim.

They made good on their promise to community and don't want to further risk

[somber dagger]

that's how the real life works too, i dont think it is bad, just a very harsh lessons

[regal lotus]

Why do you think this.
Tarkov exists man.
It's a popular game.
It's what makes this game enjoyable, the hard-core aspect of progression

[ebon idol]

How much would you like to split the player base is the question.

[raw oriole]

So you think i should be able to go versus grays with full purple ?

[hardy cedar]

Add a bot filter to general / game discussion chat that catches any post with a question-mark in it and automatically reply "read the announcements channels dummy"

[regal lotus]

Yes

[ebon idol]

If you add a limit to the quality of gear that is allowed to be matched together, people will try and save up gear for that limit.

[somber dagger]

yeah, why not? maybe someone could kill you as you told you did

[ebon idol]

What is the point to go in with greens when you can meet purple people? Save it, go in with default gear until you can get a purple set and rule.

[raw oriole]

You jsut contradicted yourself

[ebon idol]

Why get gear in the first place if it only makes you get matched with other people that have the same gear quality? Go in naked. Only other naked players can match with you.

[regal lotus]

He didn't. You are just bad at arguing and bad at reading

[raw oriole]

"People will try and save up gear for that limit" and "Go in with default gear until you can get a pruple set and rule" a.k.a save up gear for a similar limit

[tribal cradle]

So whats the limit then

[somber dagger]

so why do you need green or blue gear in the first place if you can just throw dead bodies until you get purple. you get, you lose - you lose, you get

[raw oriole]

@lofty kraken

[regal lotus]

Yes his pt is that it does not get fixed w limiting matchmaking.

It's similar problem but less reward less enjoyable

[raw oriole]

Not limitng, adding another mode for Default gear players

[ebon idol]

If you go in in greens, you can meet people in greys as well. But if you make a matchmaking system based on gear, you are much more likely to meet people with higher or equal gear as yours. Lets say the limit is +-1 gear level.

Grey-White-Green
White-Green-Blue
Blue-Purple-Orange
Purple-Orange-Unique

[raw oriole]

Similar thing as tarkov's scav run

[somber dagger]

so they can get better gear?

[regal lotus]

That is B1, goblin caves alrdy

Full purple players naturally filter into hi roller as well

[raw oriole]

That is not true, me and as many other venture into goblin caves becouse you can make similar money as to a "not bad and not good" run on high roller

and having that purple gearset littrealy makes you unkillable by grays

[trail forge]

I'm not saying there should be a gear limit but that second statement is objectively false lol

[regal lotus]

That's not true. You can make way more in hi roller. You prob avoid hi roller bc you are bad at the game

[ebon idol]

So you envision two modes: One where people with any gear get thrown in, and one with only default gear.

[raw oriole]

I play high roller ofc more than goblins when i get a good squad

[ebon idol]

Why in all the gods names would I go in there unless I am at least full blue?

[regal lotus]

Exactly.

[trail forge]

There are plenty of fully geared sweats that play normal mode, you probably just haven't played before this test. This is the first time we've been playing with empty lobbies. I don't even remember this in the first play test

[raw oriole]

true this

[somber dagger]

where is no point in dividing players by gear, purple v grey or green is like david v goliath, and to win as david is the most pleasure you can get from the game

[regal lotus]

I have played every playtest. I understand how this works.

There are not plenty of full geared in normall modes. Maybe 1 per game max on average.

These players tend to have gear but not be very good at the game, or are solo and dont want to play hi roller no party.

Both of these are weaknesses that allow them to die to lesser geared players.

[raw oriole]

In my vision: Mode for gray players where maximum they can get is blue items and 1 purple per map. Second mode : everyone can join, you still have the option to go lower geared and kill better geared players

[trail forge]

Yes unfortunately for population health this is completely true.

I love ironmace but the playtests 4 and 5 have sort of showcased how they don't really know how to handle their own out of control gear scaling and it's impacting stuff like starting wizard kit and general class balance poorly

[snow radish]

We need "remember me" option in log in screen!

[raw oriole]

I also played all playtest and havent died a single time to a lower geared player, not becouse im good at the game but becouse i just 1 hit everyone lol

[trail forge]

Yeah no, that's not at all what play test 4 was like. Sorry but that is either dishonest or you're misremembering.

[somber dagger]

there will be surely then the game is gonna be released

[raw oriole]

I remember seeing a full purple 3 man in normal mode and they just had half their inventory with meds, so even if you could get them to low hp they would just run away heal and come back

Let's not even talk about golbin mode where you are not 3v3 but 1v1, in 3v3 you 3 can manage to kill a guy but how will a gray geared guy kill me in full purple in goblin mode?

[trail forge]

The back half of play test 4 rapidly devolved into which team could land a 1-2 shot first with most classes because of how geared everyone was and how out of control gear scaling is

[glad geyser]

rapiers should be able to break barrels again

[regal lotus]

I mean, it absolutely was. Having some greens isnt full geared.

You didnt have "plenty" of full purples every game in normals at all.

And when you saw those ppl, they tend to suck and are here bc they know they get farmed in hi roller by good players.

[somber dagger]

it is not necessary for him to kill you

[trail forge]

You must have been playing a different game brother

[raw oriole]

If im chasing them down than it is ahahahaa especially with move speed advantages between a rogue and a fighter

[regal lotus]

or mamybe you think that those players are not bad, because you yourself are bad. and you lose to them, but better players dont.

[raw oriole]

i havent died to a gray/green player for the past 2 playtests lol

[trail forge]

I mean you can result to insults based on information I didn't give you lol but that doesn't change reality

[raw oriole]

whats with these people turning to insults when they run out of arguments

[trail forge]

I wouldn't worry about him he sounds young and frustrated. It's all good

[somber dagger]

i guess just start a new game, you dont kill him in real life

[raw oriole]

yeah but thats not the point if in the next 5 games he runs into people like me which there are plenty of

[somber dagger]

just git gud

[raw oriole]

Thats the point, almost none can beat a full purple guy

Or maybe im just getting in lobbies with very awful players for the past like 40 games?

[somber dagger]

but everyone can try to be sneaky

[quick gust]

What class do you play?

[ebon idol]

Also, don't forget that nobody wants to risk their gear atm because the servers are crap.

[regal lotus]

I mean its a valid explanation to your perception that everyone in playtest 4 was good, fully geared, sweating, in normals.

I didnt even attack you. I suggested an explanation.

[somber dagger]

i were going high roller a few times full naked, few times i died, few times i outrun and survived full geared hoards, but what satisfactory i got then i got out alive

[raw oriole]

@somber dagger yes but not in close quarters with the zone unless they are rogue
@quick gust i play rogue with 3 pieces that gime movespeed

[ebon idol]

So even people that might have green or blue and pose a threat are just not bringing it.

[raw oriole]

thats you yeah, but half the playerbase are not good at the game so the gamemode would suit them the best

[quick gust]

I don’t think purple vs grey is really the issue at hand, you playing rogue explains how you haven’t died to anyone with worse gear than you

[tight ravine]

Hi, I am using a translator.
Can I write here with my comments and requests for this playtest?

[somber dagger]

yeah gamemode there you cant level and get gear, just play, try to feel the game

[quick gust]

Rogue is just that strong in pvp in the current meta,

[raw oriole]

I dont run away very often and my dagger with poison 1 shots them

[trail forge]

You just listed a bunch of thing l never said.

Are you okay?

[quick gust]

Because the rogue is busted, dividing the playerbase by gear won’t solve the issues regarding how the rogue works

[regal lotus]

now you resort to insult LOL

Me suggesting you may be bad, you directly saying I have issues because you are mad LOL

[ebon idol]

But honestly, playing a lot of solo myself, players with full blue or purple are a non-issue. It happens very rarely, which is how people that play blues and purples get away with it every time, and you don't see them a lot as a grey player.

[raw oriole]

Look at tarkov, it is not diving the game by any means, it just gives a fair ground for the players that have no gear

[trail forge]

All these words you keeping putting in my mouth, like bro I'm being serious, are you okay? I don't think I can continue this conversation in good faith. Take care of yourself.

[raw oriole]

When did he directly say you have issues lmao

[ebon idol]

If more people where doing it, it would be no issue either. Because then the blue and purple farmers would meet each other more and kill each other more. It is a non issue that would solve itself if it got out of hand.

[quick gust]

I don’t think tarkov is a fair comparison, given the fact that gear is the only factor that differentiates players in the game. DND has classes, skills, perks and team comps to name a few

[ebon idol]

Tarkov is also a game that rewards patience and safety a lot more than DnD does. Having no mechanic to really push the PMCs forward.

[raw oriole]

What is a Scav run in Tarkov?
There's an alternative, though - players can run as a 'scav', a randomly-generated character with low-level weapons and equipment, but everything that the scav character loots while under the control of the player counts towards their overall riches. **adding something similar wouldnt divide player but would encourage them to learn the game **

[ebon idol]

You mean... grey runs?

[raw oriole]

yes, im saying it would make it a better experience for new players to learn and master combat of the game at a fair square while still getting some loot ( which wouldnt be very good )

[regal lotus]

Im being serious. You are the only one using insullts as an argument tactic.

You are wrong about your cllaims about playtest 4.
You are a self proclaimed bard main.
You are probably not good at the game.

[twilit thistle]

dang owned

[trail forge]

Lmao I can't bro

[raw oriole]

you cant be serious

[ebon idol]

No, what you describe as a scav run, that is what a grey run is in DnD. You go in with low level weapons and equipment, and everything that your character loots while under your control you gain. You experience and learn the game, and your character even gets EXP! How nice is that.

[trail forge]

How do I even recover from that, boys?

[raw oriole]

yes i dont see problem with it

[ebon idol]

And if you scav (grey run) and run into a well equiped PMC (a purple player) you get decked

[elfin vigil]

Skill issue

[ebon idol]

Exactly.

[regal lotus]

Me suggesting that you might be bad and that is why you disagree that the geared players in normals are bad is not an insult.

You saying "I cant bro, are you okay, take care of yourself?" Is actual insult, ad hominem argument fallacy.

I didn't put any words in your mouth.

[raw oriole]

You see you shouldnt be able to queue it as a purple player

[ebon idol]

I don't know why people are asking for training runs or runs where newbies can learn the game when that is literally every run in the game. When you go in grey, you got literally absolutely nothing to lose and everything to win.

[raw oriole]

time

[slow nest]

Be really neat if we could form a large group and run PvE dungeons with all classes working together, sort of like a 10-man WoW Raid or something.

[raw oriole]

Only gray vs gray should be an option with minimal loot to get (greens, rare blues and even rarer purples)

[trail forge]

I have no idea what what you're even talking about anymore. The conversation was about play test 4 being flooded with gear by the time the play test was over, which it was. The only one making sweeping assertions on skill is you lol

[compact edge]

because hand holding

The game is easiest it's been since previous tests, what more do these people want.

[trail forge]

Yeah the game has seriously lost the plot

[spark wyvern]

Does eu guys manage to play or it still unavailable since this morning?

[ebon idol]

If you make an only grey lobby where under no circumstances anyone with equipment can get into, getting rare greens would be my limit, if I can get blues and purples from a lobby that is full with grey people, I am not going to go into a run other than a highroller with my best gear.

[quick gust]

Do you gain time back when you escape? It’s not like dying in the dungeon is losing time any more than playing in any way is

[spark wyvern]

because if i missed something to do to be able to play i'll hit something. I'm waiting for hours :/

[compact edge]

I really wish ironmace would stop bending over for these people.
They constantly ask for things that just make no sense in the long run.

[regal lotus]

You know exactly what I am talking about.

Sweeping assertions about skill?

You criticized me for "insulting" you and then throw insults yourself.

I also just watched some of your gameplay clips you posted in playtest 4. Maybe you need a refresher on your skill level when you were playing that playtest lmao.

Example:
#dnd-content message

Yes, very geared, high skilled gameplay in normals in playtest 4.

[ebon idol]

This game is based all about risk and reward. If you go in with all purple into a solo dungeon, you risk a lot for the 100g-150g you get. Yes, maybe you will one shot players for 20 lobbies, but eventually you will find someone with the same idea, and then you are fighting for more than all the 120 players you killed previously were fighting for.

[regal lotus]

naked barb that cant disarm trap pushingg into multiple ranged enemies

[ebon idol]

Meanwhile, grey players go in risking absolutely nothing, and if they get bonked by a purple player? Who cares. They don't. They lost NOTHING. Not a bit. Just reque, better luck next time.

[compact edge]

This isn't the most popular opinion but I think the lobbies are too divided.
no solo, just 1 map with different floors
Ruins/Goblin --> Crypt --> Hell

Each floor brings new matchmaking so it's always full on each floor.

Hell was always uncontested so easy access to good gear
:L

[raw oriole]

I guess with not seprate gamemode, the solution should be more skillgaps

[raw oriole]

This is true, i got into high roller hell and there was no players there, i escaped with like 4 purples and like 200 gold (i went naked)

[regal lotus]

The ruins is meant to be additional filtration. The map is easier than B1. Better players will go down, new players will chill in ruin

[compact edge]

I don't think there should even be a high roller.
Just 1 lobby to load into.

[raw oriole]

nope

There should be 1-2 forms of gear based matchmaking and highroller is one of them

[compact edge]

gear based matchmaking

rarted af.

[raw oriole]

I guess u like to 1 shot grays?

[lofty ember]

yup

[compact edge]

No, I like when lobbies aren't empty.
and sure, if they want to attack me I will oblierate them on the spot

[raw oriole]

I think this is a good solution, game is too bland and requires minimal skill with very loww quanters for geared players

[compact edge]

(opinion)

[raw oriole]

I thnk = My opinion

[twilit thistle]

every class should get a summoner spell like flash or ghost, that will make the game very non-bland and flashy/fun to play and watch

[compact edge]

and it's bad
go back to picking up bad greens to sell to vendors :L

[trail forge]

Lmao that was a fun stroll down memory lane, thanks!

Anyway, I don't really know what that has to do with the fact that there were an abundance of geared players in normal by the end of play test 4. I'm wearing what looks like starter gear in that clip, but I had switched from wizard to exclusively ranger and cleric by the end.

Here is me playing ranger with a purple spear: #dnd-content message

The point is a lot of people were running around in purple/blue gear pretty consistently towards the end of play test 4. It's just how it was

[raw oriole]

I **guess that would make you a bad player when u get forced into playing against people with similar gear **

[lofty ember]

??

[regal lotus]

Gear based matchmaking will just warp ppl into "smurf" gear. Aka stacking phys reduc or flat magic power on greens to go against weaker ppl

[raw oriole]

Its already here but you dont want to notice it, normal mode is filled with those kind of players

Gray mode (people with no gear) Normal mode ( people with green/blue) High roller ( Purple and above )

[regal lotus]

I saw that clip as well. Yea you mow down some complete noobs. Its not skilled gameplay. Its proving myy point, sure bad players are going into normals w a bunch of gear and stomping other bad players, whats the issue

[regal lotus]

yea I think the naturall filtration is best. YOu dont need to force it w a MMR system

[twilit thistle]

at best, a gearscore cap for non high roller is all they would need

[raw oriole]

ofc not mmr thats the worst decision if they implement it

[compact edge]

connection only, no other matchmake lol

[raw oriole]

You can just have 3 gamemodes each for diffrent gear set and let players decide if they want to go gray geared into purple geared gamemode

[twilit thistle]

way too divisive

[compact edge]

Newer players can learn like the rest of us or just NOT PLAY

[white cliff]

Oh god not a sbmm discussion again. Please no.

[raw oriole]

You want the game to become Mordhau? Dead game with bunch of sweats

[trail forge]

Youre having your own separate argument dude, idk what to tell you. All I said is that there was a ton of geared players by the end of the play test. You're the one hung up on deciding everyone is bad lol

[compact edge]

Taking a shot because you mentioned mordhau, thank you

TARKOV ESQUE GAME BTW

[white cliff]

You haven’t seen a sweat they’re all in high roller lol.

[raw oriole]

Im playing high roller and i can smell these players from my room

[regal lotus]

break down the clip.
The fighter takes spear to the face, while holding shield. Doesnt side step doesnt crouch / matrix to block it. The cleric doesnt land a heal or shield at all.

Then you turn to the barb. He doesnt side step either. He uses his shout in your face while you are mid swing and dies.

Then the cleric falls over without moving at all.

[twilit thistle]

mordhau died because every goddamn server chat was full of the most hateful toxic blatantly racist chat for months before devs did anything

[compact edge]

Anyone who kills him during his rat runs in goblin is a sweat to him

[inner thorn]

"for playing this game you need a guide player"

[trail forge]

That's not true, I saw the only streamer I care enough to recognize in the ruins. He's actually worth recognizing as well

[raw oriole]

idk if you played old rust but u needed like 100 hours in aim train just to hacve a chance to be in a gunfight XD

[trail forge]

That's a wild breakdown of how there wasn't a lot of gear at the end of play test 4

[white cliff]

So bad?

[regal lotus]

as a bonus, the enemy cleric lands a heal on you before dying.

[inner thorn]

Try to headshot moving target with throwing knife...

[raw oriole]

I never died in a goblin run, i play more high roller than ratting.

[white cliff]

I mean obviously people where trying ruins.

[twilit thistle]

ruins was a lot of fun, then the rogue rat meta evolved and it became a bit less fun

[compact edge]

so mr high roller also wants vendors to give more gold for bad greens no one wants lolok

[trail forge]

I cant even say you're suffering a misunderstanding of cause and effect this is just weird obsession over something else at this point

[white cliff]

If that’s the case I don’t know why you’d ever suggest sbmm.

[regal lotus]

@trail forge why is there no buffs on the pushing figghter? He has a cleric. Its because they are noobs man!

[twilit thistle]

@regal lotus @trail forge can yall take your lovers spat to the DMs we tryna talk about the game here thx

[raw oriole]

Becouse me you and other players that can perform well skill wise shouldnt be allowed to play against new players

[inner thorn]

Even random cleric give buffs, lol

[compact edge]

buffs would be waste on fighter cause Barb last playtest was the strongest melee, just a straight cannon

[white cliff]

Big homie I’m not, it’s not worth it.

[regal lotus]

theres a barb on the fighters team as well, which is also not buffed.

None of them use a shield pot

[frank ore]

my suggestion so far fix spider collision boxes I shouldnt be body blocked by these lil shits i can stomp these lil fiends with my boots not get hard stuck into a doorway and perma jumping until I run out of HP

[trail forge]

Nah I'm good I'm here having a conversation outside of this dudes inability to keep a consistent line of thought. Report him to the mods idk what else to tell him, I'm over it

[raw oriole]

I think we can all agree on this at least aahahhaha

[regal lotus]

and because you have no arguments you insulted me. Then you went to "report him to the mods". For what? Pointing out that it is not skilled gameplay happenining in normals in the last test?

[compact edge]

okay for whatever reason I cannot type the letter that comes after e so, take that as my reply for that (comes up as BLOCKED WORD LOL)

[white cliff]

Real and true. You’re not wrong at all.

[twilit thistle]

Ok then please block each other and get on with ur lives, no one cares about who wins your internet argument

[trail forge]

No one is talking about that. I'm gonna have to ignore you now, sorry brother. Gear existed in abundance at the end of play test 4 I'm moving on with my day

[frank ore]

another suggestion fix the math being done with ranged attacks from NPCs If im behind the archer why I am taking damage to the face? I know the math to animation ratio is difficult but it ruins the immersion when I make a sick dodge behind a barrel only to still take half damage via headshot while the NPC looks at the sky

[compact edge]

ermmm tyrell you say this but just block them instead ❓

[white cliff]

I mean, you are in the discussion channel lol.

[trail forge]

I'm not even arguing with this guy, he's arguing with himself and you're getting on the same level he is lol

[ebon idol]

Stop discussing things in a discussion channel. Geez.

[regal lotus]

I argued my point, and defended it with your own gameplay examples.

You insulted me because you are sensitive about your skill in this game and your "identity" on this disc server.

Go next.

[trail forge]

I dont know how to respond to an argument I'm not even making lol

[raw oriole]

cl**(*(own emoji

[dreamy oriole]

<@&988703997378584596>

[dense girder]

Please, stop arguing with each other and do something else. Thank you

[twilit thistle]

you want the smoke or what

[raw oriole]

nah man go on, if you guys are playing do you have issues with the server rollbacking every 2 seconds?

[regal lotus]

To bring it back, I think the intended filtration of players is by adding the additional ruins floor, which is an easy map with mediocre loot. This type of design is how I would like skill diffs to be filtered naturallly.

I think some bad players farming nakeds w a purple weapon isnt a major problem that needs to be addressed w a match making system based on gear or skill.

[trail forge]

There's going to be an abundance of loot like at the end of play test 4 so it's bound to happen.

[regal lotus]

it is natural that gear inflates over the course of a season, and why regular resets are a thing in these games.

[trail forge]

Funny how you can pay attention to what's being said and be civil after the wardens get involved. I got errands to run, later nerds

[regal lotus]

But players will also more and more head to High Roller or lower floors with that gear, when they realise farming nakeds doesnt really pay off in gold or in gratification. It doesnt feel good.

Yes some will try high roller, lose miserably, and go take their gear to normals. This is fine.

[regal lotus]

I already said these things, you completely ignored these points and went for insults. You STILL are going for insults. Please we already moved past the argument stop trying to bring it back.

[white cliff]

Later nerds is definitely what somebody apart of a gaming discord would say.

[twilit thistle]

they just cant let it go, incredible

[fiery topaz]

NEXXON DDOS'D US WITH THEIR BEST - NOW WE SAY EXTEND THE TEST!!! FOR !!!!!

[ebon idol]

Also, does anyone else feel like the Ruins are a little bit too lucrative atm? I am sure they are gonna tweak drop rates for the release but damn.

[raw oriole]

I got in 3 games of goblin mode, died as fast as i could and spectated players, there was at least 1 full geared player hunting everyone else and he extracted with minial loot cause his whole inventory was just bandages and potions

[lavish palm]

I swear every time I come in the chat SOMEONE is fighting with someone, lmao

[regal lotus]

I think they made them lucrative when they separated the maps.

At start of pllaytest I wasnt getting as much gear on ruins floor 1, had to go lower to find juice.

[raw oriole]

its the point of this channel, there shouldnt be insults just opinions

[lavish palm]

Eh discussions and arguments are different imo. So yes you are correct. Insults are cringe.

[raw oriole]

i mean nothing wrong with mild arguments

[regal lotus]

I wish they had kept the floor progression from ruins, and still allowed the players tht were upset to play the other map.

Instead they kinda released butchered versions of both maps in a panic to respond to all the tears about ruins on day 1

I wanted to expllore the gameplay they were going for w the three floor map. I think w a bit of tweaking over the playtest it would have been fun.

[pastel fiber]

take crossbow skeletons out of the game

[ebon idol]

Lol. Nobody gives head like skeleton crossbowmen

[raw oriole]

I mean hell is pretty dead and if they add 3 floor it would be even worse, maybe they increase the number of players and increase the size of ruins ? Like 30 people ruins > remaining go to crypts and after few die there we have at least 5-10 left for hell

[lavish palm]

I had a guy say I have aids because I told him his rant about the state of the game wouldn't be read by the devs in here 😭

[regal lotus]

I think that is more to do with balancing the timing and throughput into lower floors.

They didnt really get a fair chance to do this balancing.

Everyone screamed and cried on day 1

[lavish palm]

I honestly COMPLETELY detest the multiple layer idea. At the very least make it something I don't have to do.

Like the 3 layer can be a "Full mode" and starting out in the crypt can be a "quick match" sort of thing. You get me?

[regal lotus]

Also, as you note the infllation of gear over time leads to more ppl going lower. At the start most ppl arent going into helll.

[twilit thistle]

Its ironic because if you do rat your way to hell you can make some pretty sweet earnings with low competition

[regal lotus]

Yea, and as the game gets more known, more and more ppl will be confident to go to hell

[lavish palm]

Probably obvious but omf hell is so annoying to get through, lol. Mostly cuz I suck at the game. But holy moly the DAMAGE some enemies can deal is NUTS!

[twilit thistle]

yeah, new players need to learn how to PvE better, I get sad when I see people die to melee skele

[regal lotus]

I have been ratting as solo naked bard into hell, making full rooms kill each other and getting fat loot.

Or going w my rogue friend and he picks chests while I spam peacefulness.

Its just cheesy fun times lol

[raw oriole]

This is what i use at beginning of last and this playtest, now with double jump even easier

[regal lotus]

go into room, pull everything, jump on top of shrine, chaotic discord

[twilit thistle]

rogues are the rat kings of this playtest, they have free reign over the ruins

[regal lotus]

the rogues getting on top of the map really warped the ggameplay in ruins.

Your rogue can find other teams so easily, and then you can use the info to jump them w little recourse, or just shoot them down from the rooftops w crossbow

[lavish palm]

If only chaotic discord didn't suck so often like my goodness. Takes three seconds for them to go to eachother, 2 seconds to swing, and the rest of the time is just sitting and watching as they barely damage eachother. I really wish it was a status effect and not the song itself that made them do that. That way I could spam it over and over and keep it up indefinitely while also sprinkling in some other songs.

[regal lotus]

It got better over the playtest, think it got some bug fixes.

It is slow, but it also goes way up if you do fatter pulls. 10 mobs kill each other faster than 2 mobs

In goblin caves I can clear a whole room in like 30 seconds and the payoff is big

[drowsy isle]

get some mods, almost everyone in gen chat is trolling or spamming

[raw oriole]

This is rogue central ahhahahaha just went in a full lobby of rogues except 1 bard

[lavish palm]

Well ofc! But I usually try and specifically not go over to that big gaggle of enemies because usually that's how you get ganged up on and murdered while you play the song again.

[regal lotus]

also you can abuse it by just spamming through the first 3 notes, then hitting the last 3

Faster casts for no penalty

[ebon idol]

I love explanations that start with "you can abuse it"

[lavish palm]

Yeah actually you're not wrong! I've been trying to find the right notes to miss on purpose so you have the fastest song. Since it skips the wait time and just gets to the note, it seems like you should purposefully miss when there's a large gap between two notes.

[regal lotus]

probably a bit of overlooked design flaw they will fix over time but yea its funny

[ebon idol]

Btw, quick question. Does poison and weakpoint work on a bolt with rogue?

[next flare]

Lmao this channel is soo tame compared to the zoo in general low key thank you guys for actually talking like humans and not spamming brain dead takes I know you guys will be happy in life just due to this assessment

[regal lotus]

also on getting jumped during fat pulls, it happens, but you can actually make all the mobs attack the player.

I think bard is like the pied piper, minstrel of the mobs.

Kite everything around the map, then unleash hell on a player LOL

[lavish palm]

IKR?! Omf every other chat is just people spamming the EXACT SAME TEXT over and over and over like a bunch of monkeys. Only bad thing that happens here is the routine fights and name calling.

[lavish palm]

Which brings me to an idea, I always felt there she be a... whatever the windpipe thing is. The shit the pied piper plays? That should be an alternate, faster, bard caster weapon. Like the spellbook!

[hollow lark]

Some of the losers in this chat are so ignorant, you do understand that on the previous play tests they were hosting off a Steaming doo doo IP correct? Having to host on a externally flawed IP and renting their bodies for cash to have servers run throughout the weak for a wonderfully bad play test simply for you to "play" is a lovely kick in the scrote not a necessity. You're sosmart if you believe that IM has a 40 person team that can on demand bend over and receive the thick sword of every player in this chat. I played the entire play test and encountered 69,420 bugs. One was very annoying as I lost my hello kitty purple armor and the other 2 were the result of spilling my diet mountain dew on my keyboard. I have afully optimized gaming pc and have constantstuttering or brutallag but maybe once. I would love for people to keep PRAISING so I can keep enjoying their witty remarks! I'm up to about 69,420 blocked atm! 😊 maybe instead of praising you should go create your own GOFUNDME to pay for hot tub twitch donations and host it yourself on your 56kb/s rural broadband internet connection! esports hacking MY SERVER!!!! Thats it...,., Graceson!!! I have to give you an ULTIMATUM,.... You either PATCH this or I will be installing FORTNITE and taking my talents there!!!!

[lavish palm]

Bro you got the rare drop hello kitty armor? Wtf I wanted that!

[regal lotus]

for sure, think they just didnt find the time, but I def expect diff tradeoffs w diff instruments in the future..

Maybe some cast fast, for weaker effects, and vice versa. Maybe some are louder but more powerful

[lavish palm]

Meh, it's ALWAYS gonna be loud, lol.

Tho hey, if they wanna get REAL creative: make it so each new instrument has it's own set of unique songs? Probably impossible to balance, but whatever.

[regal lotus]

It seems the intention is more songs and choosing the songs you run, like spells, since there is a second Music Memory skill

[twilit thistle]

It might end up like casters just running spellbooks but who knows, there is a lot they can (and need) to do with balance

I just hope they add drums to the bard and try to give it some martial capability. College of swords

[lavish palm]

Mfw it doesn't even do anything 💀

[crimson sand]

Would be cool to have item "Magic Song" sheets to collect and can use prepare after collecting. Or maybe it works like a ring/amulet slot

[thick wasp]

being able to just right click and trade with friends in the same party instead of going through trade room (you still need to join/unlock trade guild)

[regal lotus]

I think a bard perk that converts resourcefulness into damage or scaling somehow would be cool

[lavish palm]

Probably a stupid question but what is resourcefulness?

[regal lotus]

Its interaction speed basically, its also the bard's highest starting stat

[crimson sand]

It's an attribute that governs your speed for interacting with doors and stuff.

[twilit thistle]

Yeah I do find it kind of odd but at the same time having a free trade system could have negative effects on the economy long term. RMT is a big problem for these games

[lavish palm]

Omf Rouge Bard comp would make me wanna hurl please no, lmao

[crimson sand]

Song of Greed: Empowers monsters but improves their chance of better drops

[regal lotus]

I like that

[abstract dirge]

it's 2023 and people still can't spell rogue

[rigid mulch]

thats a good one

[rustic fox]

Cool one

[lavish palm]

Thought to add ig, I always felt the song that makes you faster should also make you have more interact speed but that's probably wacky idk

[graceful frost]

What do you mean. You spelled it wrong it’s ruogeo

[fringe stream]

how do people feel about the rogue health amount and speed? i was under the impression that nobody really genuinely believes that the double jump is good for the game.

[regal lotus]

I think more classes need a method to have vertical mobility to prevent rogues alone from taking over ruins and other vertical maps..

Like maybe its more jank for other classes, harder to do in combat.

Im thinking like grappling hooks, wizard levitate or somethingg

But I do like double jump its alot of fun.

[crimson sand]

Give wizards a morrowind-style levitate ability so they can walk into the air

[graceful frost]

Yeah. It really isn’t. Especially for ranger and wizard. The airstrafe is absurd. Just needs removed as a whole

[lavish palm]

This could also have a double effect. If the song of greed is a status effect placed on the monster, you can empower them, and then send them off to go kill eachother or enemy players!

[storm gyro]

remove crossbow skeleton

[rigid mulch]

i like using it but i'd prefer to see some kind of wall running & jumping instead of mid-air jumping

[turbid ermine]

devs please make naked cleric with war maul op

[graceful frost]

Lol I like it

[storm gyro]

yes

[crimson sand]

Bards as a tempo design would benefit from getting a longsword-esq parry. I don't know if that could be a bard-specific off hander to go with rapier, but it seems like it could be cool

[lavish palm]

Wall climbing with a cooldown?

[rigid mulch]

that could work beyond the rogue class.. for rogue i'd love to see some titanfall 2 style wall running, tho the pace here is slower, dunno if it can be done well

[split acorn]

Game is so brilliant and love the dev team. All i need is a 2 players map 🙂

[regal lotus]

I think they have to be cautious because it can very quickly become OP and warp the meta.

They can dual a fast action rapier w a hand crossbow atm and its pretty nasty.

Abuse your speed and peacefulness for spacing and hit crossbow shot, repeat.

[lavish palm]

Yeahhh idk about that one. Wall running doesn't really seem like it'd fit to me? A slowish wall climb as an ability would make alot more sense. Less spammable and wayyyy slower than a mirrors edge wallrun, lol

[abstract dirge]

I don't understand why bard and archer are two seperate classes, bard atm has 0 use cases 0 individuality. Rapiers? Archers, fighter, rogues can all use them.

[crimson sand]

It seems like if the parry was attached to an off-hander that could alleviate this situation rather than make it worse

[regal lotus]

yea maybe double jump aint it idk.

I dont want the game to warp into mobility creep w ppl grappling and climbing and flying away alll the time

[raw oriole]

guitar maybe and his specific guitar buffs than no one else can use?

[rigid mulch]

yeah fair, but i'd accept a wall jump instead of the mid-air double jump, reign in how powerful it is a little

[lavish palm]

Archer use bow

Bard use banjo

Bow. Banjo.

Banjow.

: [ ]

[clever marlin]

I want to buy Ironmace stickers

[crimson sand]

You shoot the arrow using the banjow string of course

[fringe stream]

i think all games that have a "game breaking perk" usually remove them or incorporate them to change the game. considering tat this game is somewhat realistic and difficult, the double jump is a bit farfetched. the air strafe is an excellent example

[abstract dirge]

Wouldn't a musician be better off using a bow as a main weapon? Idk, rapiers make less sense. You play a class that uses an INSTRUMENT as its main "weapon" which currently has little to no viability.

[regal lotus]

You can do both

[raw oriole]

not everything has to be meta ?

[magic flume]

you can smack people with the lute

[fringe stream]

musicians have the survival bow

[crimson sand]

I really like the aesthetic of bards being a musketeer style duelist, like fighter/rogues but flashier.

[abstract dirge]

Survival bow is currently the weakest bow in the game.

[lavish palm]

Yeah I never felt double jump made sense. I would however not be opposed to them making jumps higher though. To allow you to jump onto tables and chests without crouch hopping.

[fringe stream]

also fastest

[abstract dirge]

yes, fast, more ammo... Almost like it's meant to be used against mobs and not players. Am I being argued that this weapon.. Is supposed to be a good option for the bard?

[lavish palm]

"Engard, ruffian! I'll play you the tune of your death!"

music

[magic flume]

survival bow has more ammo capacity

[regal lotus]

Xbow hand xbow surv bow is a good breadth of options.

They probably hesitate to add a "bow specialization" perk because could be a bit broken and really should belong to ranger

Think they just tossed some perks together for bard, its far from complete

[timid scroll]

one handed lute?

[magic flume]

flute?

[rigid mulch]

ppl here probably play with their one handed lutes enough already

[lavish palm]

Could be a perk ngl. "One hand band" or something cringe like that. Idk man he doesn't have any perks, just give him some-

[abstract dirge]

That might help the class a little, a real weapon in the main hand and a "spell casting" option in the offhand

[regal lotus]

id like that, its frustrating trying to have a bow on bard atm, because you will have to melee w a grey lute then

[magic flume]

idk i got smoked by a bard 1v1 he was using the peacemaker songs

[dusk sierra]

Anyone else think Judgment need a little less love? Cleric are healers not let me clap your cheakers.......

[regal lotus]

yea w the speed up and good spacing its actually quite hard to close on bard w fighter/barb.

They are still a weak class overall but too many buffs will break them

[lavish palm]

Based.

I agree. I never felt Clerics should have so many damage options.

[magic flume]

it's pvp or pve choice with judgement

[regal lotus]

I suspect that locust swarm is actually testing a spell for a diff class.....

[abstract dirge]

I'll have to see how bard develops up next, I guess. I honestly still don't feel like it's meant to be one whole class by itself, it does not yet have enough identity.

[magic flume]

warlock will bring back skeles from the dead

[lavish palm]

Necromancer kinds fits the feel of that ngl.

Unless warlock is a better fit?

[regal lotus]

I was thinking its a druid spell https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Insect Plague#content

[lavish palm]

Yeah I was a little confused when I saw rapiers can be used by so many other classes?? Feels a bit off but like okay?

[regal lotus]

Think they are doing DnD classes (dungeons n dragons), so warlock will be the necromancer type.

[lavish palm]

Cooool. Wonder what he'll be like? Lol what if he can blow up corpses. /hj

[rigid mulch]

isnt d&d very litigious lately? probably worth changing the names here and there, heat's a little high already

[lavish palm]

I mean they don't own the word warlock do they?

[vernal peak]

So what if the ranger had a quiver that was like 1x3 or 2x3 instead of 30 arrows to start with, and it was an unlimited source of basic ammo just like we had before? But they could still keep the arrow scavenging stuff in by adding ammo types like fire arrows or iron arrows that do more base damage but are limited in supply (and probably rebalance bow damage across the board). Cuz right now 30 arrows is pretty much infinite except for when you fight a boss in high roller, in which you have to buy more or switch to a sword to finish up dps.

[regal lotus]

They arent really copyingg the class design too much.

Bards in DnD can cast spells, use alot of different weapons. They are more a "jack of all trades"

Also I dont think DnD can sue for using their class names at this point, its too widespread

[rigid mulch]

i would hesitate to copy the ruleset to closely, but certainly they dont own the word

[abstract dirge]

Isn't it even in DnD's interest to have a game gain traction using similar classes, to entice more people to join the community?

[ornate hollow]

https://tenor.com/view/road-warrior-fury-road-guitar-flamethrower-flaming-guitar-gif-19721895

[ornate hollow]

next bard weapon pls

[granite sky]

I recommend iron mace to try using the AWS shield it has ddos protection and management

[crimson sand]

The don't own fighter, cleric, bard, wizard, or ranger either but they have not deviated even a little off of 5e class naming yet. 😓
I don't know legal prescedents or anything, but I'm not super thrilled to see the convention sticking to dnd so clsoely

[regal lotus]

There are games that are basically dnd 2.0 in game form, like baldurs gate.

I think there isnt much risk from just using the class names

If they survive nexon lawsuit , class names from DnD are a much smaller infringement

[rigid mulch]

there were some articles about d&d's new biz model in recent months, saying they will be shifting towards royalty-based licensing for third party products that earn over $750k usd. not sure how that would affect a game like DnD but the similarities thus far seem pretty obvious to me

[crimson sand]

Legal stuff aside, I really don't view DaD's tone to be benefited by being close to dnd. At least... not 5e. dnd 2.0 is more in line with its darker and grittier tone

[glacial sphinx]

DnD (WoTC) does not own those class names, so why would they need to deviate

[crimson sand]

Again, my argument here is not legal

[abstract pond]

dark and darker needs an artificer class with deployable turrets

and GUN

[regal lotus]

yea the weird thing for me w DnD classes is artificer

Also sorc/warlock/wizard are VERY similar in DND, they are all nuker casters. Sorc/Wizard even use the same spells

[crimson sand]

I think DaD benefits from its own identity in establishing tone rather than associating with dnd because of the presence of what dnd 5e currently looks like. It would need to establish a relationship to older dnd editions like 2.0, which I think the introduction of warlock does the opposite as I think they were introduced in 3e?

[dense sand]

Bard in Dark and Darker are based off of Ultima Online bards