suggestion-discussion

[lusty wren]

Lowest pick rate, lowest kills, Same amount of clerics/rangers/barbs in the top 20. Its more than pick rate

[graceful frost]

Just cause it’s low pick rate or low kills doesn’t make the class bad lol

[lusty wren]

I never once said the class is bad

I said it was in a OK spot that is not saying its bad by any metric 😄

[graceful frost]

Wiz is very hard with no gear solo and has a pretty high skill floor so a lot of people don’t play it. But it still has absurd gear scaling and haste and invis is broken, most of the time wiz was used in buff ball comps with cleric wiz barb or cleric wiz fighter but wiz has absurd scaling and kit

Ok spot=/ best in game

[lusty wren]

Not by the data it aint 😄

[dull fulcrum]

The thing that isn't mentioned enough about the data set we were given is that it's over a million new players playing for a week or less dying repeatedly to a goblin warrior. It's a really small, incomplete sample that can provide direction but needs additional data to be meaningful.

[lusty wren]

Sure, buts its vastly more meaningful than all these anecdotal experiences people use as "evidence"

[dull fulcrum]

Oh, absolutely

[graceful frost]

I mean I literally explained why the pick rate is low. Pick rate has pretty much nothing to do with how good a character is. Same with with leaderboard kills, I’d we went of kills it would suggest barb is the best character by a landslide which isn’t true. And would suggest cleric and wizard are the 2 worst even though they are prolly the best two classes in the game when talking teams

[lusty wren]

So we will just take your anecdotes instead of data 😄

[graceful frost]

It’s not just people using only experience lol, have you seen a geared wizard test damage? 100+ dmg per zap and 200 damage for an ignite dagger hit. Explain how your data shows wizard isn’t good? How does low pick rate have anything to do with how good a character is?

[lusty wren]

its not my data. And you are hung up on pick rate when it was ONE of several metrics I discussed

[graceful frost]

Please explain how your data shows wiz isn’t a tier Lmao

[lusty wren]

and I never said wizard isnt good. Dinner is typically a requirement for putting things into my mouth.

[rocky oar]

I find it funny how conversations always lead back to people saying Wiz op but here we got Barb one tapping to head and Rangers doing Ranger things still xD

[graceful frost]

You said 2 things. Lowest pick rate and lowest kills, i said how lowest pick rate was irrelevant and lowest kills also doesn’t mean much which I explained. There are support characters for a reason, cleric isn’t supposed to get first in kills it doesn’t make it a bad class. If you look at the kills you get a completely wrong tier list. Also experience does matter, everyone’s expirience as a whole still matters

[lusty wren]

I never said any of these classes are bad. Are you meaning to tag someone else? 😄

[graceful frost]

Classic wizard main lmao. The reason barb was so successful was because of wizard and cleric.

[rocky oar]

Here we gooooooooooooooo

[lusty wren]

He has no argument so he attempts to "dismiss" instead 😄

[rocky oar]

Can't wai till Druids come out so we can just do a death ball giant Bear

[graceful frost]

I’m not saying you said that? I am simply saying a character having low kills doesn’t make a class bad. And referred to cleric? I never said you said cleric was bad or anything. I simply said “cleric isn’t supposed to get first in kills doesn’t make it bad” how does that suggest you saying cleric is bad when it doesn’t t

[lusty wren]

Ok bucko we can agree to disagree 😉

[graceful frost]

?? That’s not me insulting lmao. Also I have a perfectly fine argument? You are saying my argument is bad, what are your actual counterpoints?

[lusty wren]

You have no argument. You are ignoring data and utilizing anecdotes. Its a folly

[graceful frost]

What are your counterpoints? You have said look at the data, when I have and your not explain how the data shows the opposite of this

[lusty wren]

Reread my text up top. We can agree to disagree this is going no where

[graceful frost]

Explain how that’s a counterpoint, you saying my argument is bad with no reasoning doesn’t make sense? Again you say “look at data” when I have, you want to explain exactly how the data shows my point is bad

[lusty wren]

Not bad, non existent

I did already read up. Lets just agree to disagree as I said 😄

Im just a cleric main, what do I know 😉

[graceful frost]

Again that’s not a counterpoint? Your saying “let’s just agree to disagree” because you don’t want to actually give counterpoints. Saying “look at the data” isn’t a counterpoint.

[lusty wren]

Because you failed to read my reasoning I am not going to repeat my position

[rocky oar]

With your arguement wouldn't Cleric be an issue to with stack buffing and just you wait till Bard comes out lol

[graceful frost]

Where was your actual reasoning? Even if you said it which the only thing I saw was play rate and kills. Which I gave counterpoints to both and explained how that doesn’t make sense

[lusty wren]

I actually dont mind buff stacking. I just dislike it specifically on haste/invis. But overall I think balance is in a reasonable place for a game in such a early state

[graceful frost]

? That has nothing to do with my argument? I don’t see how you get that point from what I am saying

[rocky oar]

Because of this dummy. From you saying this it implies that Wiz and Cleric Buffs are an issue. So, Cleric is an issue purely because of Buff Stacking which is the same thing as Wiz. Comes along Bard in the future as well lol

[lusty wren]

At least its a change of pace, most people in here complain about wizards kill potential. This guy is at least changing it up blaming the utility 😄

[rocky oar]

Also, it doesn't change the fact that Barb has the most amount of dmg regardless of buffs and is able to one tap to head way more than every other class.

[lusty wren]

I do think barb is the only real outlier atm personally (as far as the upward direction is concerned)

[graceful frost]

I mean but cleric can’t 1 hit? Barb is inherently slow and can 1 hit so when it can move faster than any character with haste and invis and get spam healed it’s an issue. A similar thing happens with fighter. The thing is a wizard can’t rlly tank and doesn’t have amazing really close range. Cleric doesn’t have insane damage but yes you can buff ball cleric

[graceful frost]

Again not complaining, also I am talking about wizard as a whole

[rocky oar]

OH MY GOD, when did I say Cleric can one tap?

[graceful frost]

We saying cleric can’t one tap isn’t saying you said it? I never said you said it

I said cleric can’t open tap simply. Barb however can. That is not be putting words in your mouth

[lusty wren]

What changes would you make to wiz specifically?

[graceful frost]

I am simply saying a fact, well maybe cleric can one tap with really good gear and buffs against a naked but

[graceful frost]

I mean I’m not here to talk about wiz changes. But prolly nerf gear scaling cause a geared wiz can one hit pretty much every class to the body. I am not sure what quite to do against buff ball but I have seen thing like a buff limit so you can’t have too many buffs, along with diminishing returns on buffs for other players form wizard. Idrk how to change it but the class is strong

[rocky oar]

Buffs is the only issue in my opinion when it comes to balancing classes and even then, they can be counteracted by Slow spell and Bind Spell. And if ya don't have either of those classes for those spells, Ranger should be peppering the Bard causing the slow effect to occur making it difficult to push. A lot of people get ran over though due to the fact that they are fucking- oblivious to their surroundings. I've lose to probably less than 4 deathball Barb teams last PT.

We ran fighter instead of Barb and no, my Fighter didn't even run the heavy plate armor, he didn't like the speed decrease it did.

[lusty wren]

Hmm, I have debated the gear scaling thing. I was planted on Defensive gear just needs to scale better.

I do think some careful consideration needs to be done with buffs because it def can get pretty egregious

[graceful frost]

I mean the offensive of gear and attributes scale absurdly on wizard that’s all it is.

[lusty wren]

Ya I feel offensive gear scales far better than defensive gear in general. For all classes.

[rocky oar]

Gear scaling is def the issue

[graceful frost]

I mean wiz can 1 hit any class with zap more or less

[rocky oar]

You actually wilding

[lusty wren]

I dunno bout that. I never seen zap one shot someone personally. especially say barbs 😄

[graceful frost]

I have easily seen zap do 100 damage not including the burn tick

And an invite dagger doing like 150 plus for a single headshot. Or a single mm headshot doing 100+

[lusty wren]

when you say a single MM shot you mean a volley or literally a single projectile?

[rocky oar]

https://imgur.com/a/0TtzntP This is the best gear I ever had and I got Zap to 120 which still didn't one tap people. MR matters and a lot of people are at least slightly geared making it no be able to one tap at all. It will be super close to one tap but, it def is not a one tap.

I ran only HR btw for reference. Also that is without the book equipped.

[graceful frost]

I mean if you watch any of Apollo’s most geared wizard or wizard videos he shows damage testing and has damage to 1 tap a lot of people. His zap did at least like 120 and that is enough to 1 tap like rogue ranger cause they won’t have enough magic resist, same thing with fighter and maybe cleric

[lusty wren]

Fighter can stack a good amount of MR if it wants to

[graceful frost]

Also with other spells do more than enough to 1 tap most likely. Or. Especially things like ignite weapons

[rocky oar]

To naked people probably which I believe or at least very poorly gear people

My fireball 100% was one tapping rouge ranger and wizards, none of the other classes though. This is under the assumption that they all had pretty decent gear too

[graceful frost]

I mean with ranger I haven’t had that much magic resist with my geared ranger or my friends geared rogue. Not enough to survive a full geared wiz zap or mm or fireball or dagger

[lusty wren]

Ive watched a good amount of Apollos videos though and I don't see him consistently one tapping with zap no where near it even

[graceful frost]

I mean I watched his most geared wizard videos and I easily saw him either 1 tapping or close to 1 tapping people with zap and 1 tapping with a ignite weapon or a fireball or something else

[lusty wren]

Can you link it? Did he check their gear after? were they wearing anything? 😄

[graceful frost]

This is one of them
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W9JqthZ2zsI there are also 2-3 others

There is also JayGriffyuhs god set wizard video. Yeah the other people don’t have near that level of gear but even with similar gear zap will 2 tap and other spells with 1 tap most likely

[lusty wren]

so 2 min in I see a barb tank 3 zaps no problem 😄

[rocky oar]

bro

[lusty wren]

3 shot a fighter with ingite dagger

[rocky oar]

What was that Barb wearing. Appolo just got his in the face by a Barb and only took 50% dmg.

[graceful frost]

My man the point is wiz gear scales absurdly. And maybe that zap isn’t always a 1 tap but most of the time a 2 tap. Also proxy fighter has a ton of physical dr so 3 hitting with a dagger is insane

[rocky oar]

Funny part is I don't think that Barb was even freaking geared, he hit Appolo in the face and took 50% health

[lusty wren]

a 1 tap, yet this guy just soaks up 3 no problem

[lusty wren]

Ya no way he was geared, he did way to little dmg. Yet he still tanked those 3 zaps NO problem

[rocky oar]

Phantomz, have you ever played Wiz at a high level? Just curious?

[graceful frost]

Ok nvm, I mean yeah 1 tap was most likely an exaggeration but a character doing quadruple base damage with gear is unheard of.

[lusty wren]

Agreed, the scaling of gear in general is a bit of an issue atm imo (offensive gear)

[graceful frost]

I mean I didn’t play wiz that much but got it to level 20 first day and played high roller and watched a lot of high even players and high level wizard players

[rocky oar]

kek

[graceful frost]

I mean wiz scalin is much better than any other class doing quadruple damage with most spells with good gear where most classes get prolly triple at most

Actually rogue has very strong scaling too but isn’t as strong of a class in general

[lusty wren]

a barb getting triple with vastly superior base dmg is much bigger issue imo

[rocky oar]

[lusty wren]

this video he just hit a fighter with 4 zaps still walked away 😄 maybe 3 one may have missed

[graceful frost]

Maybe I linked one of the worse examples for the video but just linked first one I saw

[lusty wren]

Ya I think you did 😄

[rocky oar]

I think I've only seen Ignite dagger one tap as well if it was to head and they aren't that geared. Which is should be like that anyway because you freaking Wiz going melee and against any actual gear player you will get straight one tapped

[graceful frost]

I know I watched 1 and 2 and zap was doing 100+ damage so that should be a 2 tap on really every but barb or even a 1 tap on lower gear

[lusty wren]

Ya this video he two tapped a wiz to the head with ignite dagger 😄

[rocky oar]

I am telling ya it's not a straight one tap just cause crazy gear.

[lusty wren]

I do think we are all in agreement though offensive gear scaling probably needs toned down

[graceful frost]

I mean the ignite dagger is doing 150+ damage when he tests damage on a dummy in one of the videos

[abstract swallow]

If you're looking for Zap/Ignite oneshots you're probably looking at PT3 content, when it got full scaling on tick AND procced flat damage upon application like Rogue's DoTs did.

[rocky oar]

or defensive gear scaled up, one of the two

[graceful frost]

Most dr I have had with ranger is like 30 percent physical and it’s similar with wiz and rogue unless you go for dr on some. Which is not enough to live a 150 head shot

[lusty wren]

Which would make sense why this video had none of them (I only watched 9 of the 10 min)

[graceful frost]

I mean the videos I’m taking about were playtest 4 and I prolly linked the wrong one. The point was if you watch any of those sorts of videos and they test damage at the start zap is doing a very large amount of damage

[lusty wren]

Dummy dmg is probably not the best indicator though. because in this video he was hitting for 120+ with ignite dagger on the dummy. than took 2 shots to headshot a wizard

[abstract swallow]

Yeah, you can still hit insane numbers but that's because of pyro ticks more than anything
once you hit HR though even a DarkPlate+Barbuta Fighter is getting like 30-and-change MR at best, I didn't run into any Fighters that could tank a fireball+zap without outside healing

[graceful frost]

I mean if you look at dummy damage and then take into account the most dr or magic dr a class is gonna have even with max gear they can use it

[lusty wren]

But how than was his dmg 120+ to the dummy but took 2 headshots to kill the wizard?

maybe it was different games with different gear? Possibly seems disingenuous though

[graceful frost]

Idfk? Maybe the dummy is bugged or he wasn’t using the same gear in that video? I am talking about the start of a different one of his videos where ignite dagger headshot did 150+ so if you do the numbers. Also he might have done the second hit before the last ignite tick meaning the first hit did a lot less

[lusty wren]

It was the same video. He hit the dummy at the beginning of it

But it just shows maybe dummy numbers in a video arent so reliable

[graceful frost]

Ok? I mean you can do the numbers idk why it didn’t 1 hit and I gave a few reasons. Also wiz has good magic resist and some of the ignite damage is magic so if the wiz has like 25 percent dr and 25 percent mr is enough to live. Also not my issue if dummy’s don’t record numbers right I’m going off what it shows on the test dummy which should show the numbers right and if it doesn’t that isn’t my fault and doesn’t change much that gear scaling is too strong especially for wozard

[lusty wren]

But one of your reasons is maybe the dummy was bugged.... But your entire premise relies on the numbers the dummy shows

So if the dummy was bugged, than the entire equation goes out the window right?

[graceful frost]

Ok? I mean even if your not using dummy numbers if you look at high gear wizards in game they have insane gear scaling still

[exotic timber]

Dummy's magic damage reduction is -10%

[lusty wren]

Yes all offensive gear has insane scaling I do agree|

-10% is interesting and ya your probably right its like wearing 0 mr

[graceful frost]

Ah ok thanks.

[graceful frost]

I mean wizard scaling is prolly the best out of the rest, and many people agree on this and it’s part of the reason wiz so at the top of every tier list along with haste and invis and stuff

[lusty wren]

many agreed with hitler and stalin were they correct? 😄

[graceful frost]

The fact you are comparing this to hitler is completely insane? And your putting a smile after it? Get help

[lusty wren]

Populum is a fallacy for a reason.

[autumn fossil]

this might come as a shock to some but wizards arent the only ones that scale a lot with damage. barbs can hit for over 200 with an axe, rangers 160 with a bow or 200+ with a crossbow and rogues 140 with a dagger. all of switch would one shot most things

[lusty wren]

Exactly!

[graceful frost]

Also it’s simply a video game where many of the best players agree with those facts and put wizard at the top. That isn’t comparable to a person in real life lmao

[lusty wren]

What facts? You mean those opinions?

[graceful frost]

You act like I don’t know that? I have said that I just said wiz scaling is the strongest.

[lusty wren]

150 is stronger than 200+?

[rocky oar]

A oneshot is a oneshot regardless of scaling. If Barb can do it with less scaling than why does it matter that Wizards can do it with more scaling? If anything that sounds crazy scuffed if the scaling was the same as Barb, then Wiz be doing no dmg

[graceful frost]

You realize opinion and experience still matter? In any game the best players have some idea what they are talking about. Also there isn’t rlly data that shows what the best classes scaling is or anything

[echo tinsel]

@opal bone You can actually dodge every single trap in the game, it just requires some practice and a little thinking.

[autumn fossil]

oh btw barbs that hit for over 200 also have 180+ life making them very hard to kill

[graceful frost]

I mean wizard with full gear is doing at least 4x the damage of a normal gear when a barb with normal gear and like felling axe is doing 80 and then with full gear doing 200.

[autumn fossil]

lol

[lusty wren]

Doesnt even account for their MR 😄

[graceful frost]

That’s only if your stacking strength or all attributes. Also idek if a barb can get to 180 health

[lusty wren]

if 4x still does less dmg than 3x which one is the bigger issue?

3x with vastly higher base dmg is much more of a problem than 4x with much lower base dmg

[graceful frost]

I mean when wiz had a lot of range zap is a mid scan hit scan thing and wiz can outrun every character in the game?

[abstract swallow]

Barbs clear 180 health with Rage+Healthy and gear in every slot

[graceful frost]

Barbs don’t rlly run health skill from what I know

[rocky oar]

Until a Barb and Fighter pulls out Franc Axes and start throwing while using Rage or Sprint lol

[graceful frost]

Nvm though this isn’t worth it. I was staying things I have heard from a large amount of skilled players and top players who’s opinions don’t matter. There aren’t any data saying the opposite, but there also aren’t any data saying the same cause the only data of play rate and leaderboard aren’t a very good show of how good a character is. There is a reason wiz is at top of tier lists and is in the meta comp and has been nerfed this playtest more than any other class.

[lusty wren]

But anecdotes from "high skilled players" is good evidence? Data bad, anecdote good

Linsung sounds like a fairly high level player why just discount his opinions?

[opal bone]

If you are naked yes.

[pseudo wing]

Super geared barbs do sit around 180. Not because of war cry the 25% health skill though. War cry is a horrible ability.

[rocky oar]

https://imgur.com/a/yuztKas

[graceful frost]

Again there isn’t any date really. The only data you have described is play rate and kills which don’t rlly show anything. Also do you want to explain what actual data goes against what I am saying? You can’t just say data with no reasoning. Also I mean I go a bit more off high roller performance and when many many more high level and leaderboard result players have a opinion different than him imma listen to the others. Also again I’m not gonna try to have a discussion with you if you won’t mention what data your actually talking about? What data is there shins my point? What data is there other than play rate and leaderboard that I have already explained aren’t great examples

[abstract swallow]

(I have been watching this for almost an hour and still don't know what they're arguing about)

[autumn fossil]

it is odd that people only complain about wizards and reference tier lists but dont complain much about clerics who are also always the other s tier class on those lists... also there is always going to be an S tier class

[abstract swallow]

That's because when they do they use the word 'Judgement' and not 'Cleric

[lusty wren]

They may not be great examples as you have stated. But its the data we have, and leaderboards/pickrate/killrate are vastly superior to your anecdotal "facts"

[rocky oar]

It's not an opinion though. Zap doesn't one tap like you said it does and neither does Ignite. Barbs can straight one tap though and Rangers be ranger

[autumn fossil]

fair

[graceful frost]

Again if you won’t give actual counterpoints other than saying “data” without giving data or explaining how data goes against it. Where is the data. ( @abstract swallow I said wizard was very good and prolly the best In the game, gave my reasoning and also said that many other good players and top players have a similar thing. I am only being told something about not going off data without telling me what data is going against me. Also @rocky oar my man argument has nothing to do with zap one tapping? I said I have seen it 1 tap which I have and I litterally have gone back on that statement saying I may have exaggerated and I was wrong.

[lusty wren]

You literally said zap one shots, and than LINKED a video disproving you

[abstract swallow]

maybe you guys should give it a break and come back tomorrow

[echo tinsel]

Lol no, it has absolutely nothing to do with speed. It's all about timing

[graceful frost]

Again did I not say that video may have been the wrong video? I said watch any of the most geared wizard videos, or jaygriffyuhs god gear video, and I linked the wrong most geared video which I hadn’t actually watched yet. Also I said I was wrong about zap? And I said i exaggerated with 1 tap. Also it pretty much has nothing to do with my argument

[lusty wren]

Showing that you are constantly "exaggerating" or just flat out wrong does have something to do with your argument 😉

If the anecdotes you give are exaggerated and wrong it leads me to believe your entire premise is exaggerated or wrong.

[rocky oar]

Dumb take because at the end of the day this game is a 3-man team game. Other classes allow other classes to things they wouldn't usually be able to do. Barb and Fighter front line, Cleric and Wizard Buffing, Ranger just kites for days while hitting people from a ranger forever allowing frontliners to bait/kite people without risking themselves to go in to take dmg in certain situations and then their is rouge just doing rouge things.

[graceful frost]

I’m done talking about this, you aren’t actually considering my main point. You are bringing up someone for on a while ago that I said I was wrong on, and if you didn’t see it I am saying it again. You have only said my thing isn’t based on facts. And have given 3 pieces of data that do not show the best character or the order of it at all. So I’m done talking about this bs. In any game the best players opinion is worth considering, I think considering many many top leaderboard and best players opinion that is the same is a better reasoning. Than 3 pieces of data that dont prove anything. I will not be replying anymore and actually read this. And I literally am talking about in teams

[autumn fossil]

I mean if i just watch player montages of wizards running about, clapping people i too would think wizards are too op... but maybe you should watch some barbs ones, or ranger ones

[lusty wren]

Again populum is a fallacy for a reason.

Check this, the vast majority who have expressed their opinions here today say you are wrong.... does this mean you are in fact wrong?

[turbid ermine]

or cleric ones, or fighter ones or rogue fist only ones

[autumn fossil]

NO not those ones. only barbs and ranger ones

[graceful frost]

3-5 people. Also again not top players? I am going off of high rank leaderboard or high level players. @autumn fossil I’m not going off of montages? You didn’t read anything I say then randomly go into here and say that. Ok done replying to all of you.

[lusty wren]

How do you know what kind of players these people are? Lots of assumptions for someone who just uses anecdotal evidence

[rocky oar]

We won bois

[autumn fossil]

you mean the leaderboard that has barb double the kills of anything else? those leaderboards?

[lusty wren]

So you will go off of high leaderboard players, but just discount that the leaderboards are more evenly spread and not just WIZ WIZ WIZ all the way down the top 20?

Kills are not a good indicator you say, Pick rate is not a good indicator you say, Leaderboard is not a good indicator you say, Yet peoples opinions on the leaderboard are fact? Such silly logic my man

[graceful frost]

I mean if your high on leaderboard in any of the classes you are good? If you are number 1 at high roller escapes you know what your doing? However kills don’t show a character Is bad or good. That is not contradicting myself

[lusty wren]

Leaderboard SCORE is not just kills either.

[stark rain]

Unrelated, but search the #d-and-d-suggestions channel for "Kotai", MF is giving the most braindead suggestions possible

[graceful frost]

I am taking about when it comes to characters leaderboard isn’t a good show of weather a character is good or bad? But if your high in the categories of leaderboard you aren’t bad at the game?

[granite plinth]

The most recent suggestion is probably the stupidest trolliest one I've seen so far

[rocky oar]

I'd imagine you be good if you got number 1 kills for you classes let alone overall lol

[autumn fossil]

you realize that barbs was on top of the kill leaderboard by VERY large margins right?

[lusty wren]

So if leaderboard is not a good indicator if a character is good or bad, why is it a good indicator if a person is good or bad?

[graceful frost]

Yeah? Ik that? Hence why I am not saying a character is good or bad based off the leaderboard

[lusty wren]

You realize the number one factor in these leaderboards was time spent right? 😄

[lusty wren]

But its a great indicator for player skill 😄

[rocky oar]

I partially disagree with that. You still gotta be good at the game, but yes time spent is a big factor. Regardless you can spend 140 hours like me and still get clapped non-stop if your bad at the game

[graceful frost]

I mean because if you are number 1 high roller escapist you clearly know what your doing? Leaderboards are a good representation of if your good at the game? Would you say narik number 1 in kills isn’t good?

[granite plinth]

Problem is more that a good barb/cleric combo will outshine any other combo with equal gear and player skill

[lusty wren]

Yes its not the only metric. But someone vastly superior to another will not beat them in the leaderboards if they have 20% of the time

[autumn fossil]

fax

[graceful frost]

The leaderboard shows skill and how good you are ? Are you gonna say the top 10 players on leaderboard are bad?

[lusty wren]

The point is someone not being on the leaderboard does not make them less skilled inherently

You saying I only trust high leaderboard folk is silly.

Even sillier than using it as a skill indicator yet not a class power indicator

There is a VERY high chance that the number 1 player on the leaderboard was NOT the #1 skilled player in the game

[graceful frost]

Nobody said that was the case? But being high on leaderboards does show experience and playtime and that you are having success and know what your don’t . Also I am not saying I “only trust high leaderboard folk” when did I say that, I said I was going off of some good players opinions. A players skill doesn’t have anything to do with how good a character is

[lusty wren]

You literally discounted what the people here are saying as "not skillful players" "D based on leaderboards

[graceful frost]

Never said he was? I said he was good at the game and that is shown from the leaderboard position

[autumn fossil]

to be fair we are all baddies here

[lusty wren]

This guys mentor apollo is here whats that say about him? 😄

[graceful frost]

Never did? I said my point was based off what I have heard from skillful players, there expirience, my experience and going off the class as a whole

[lusty wren]

You didnt say this? Again NOT TOP PLAYERS? 😄

[graceful frost]

? In what way is that my mentor? I don’t play wizard I said he had some videos with very high damage wizard gear?

[lusty wren]

I mean you are taking their opinions and calling them LITERAL facts

This is becoming to easy. No fun anymore. Ill go be productive 😄

[graceful frost]

Ok well yeah my b. But also they aren’t? I mean. Also when did I call that literally facts. Maybe I said it once as a mistype but many many times I mentioned it was opinions

[granite plinth]

[neat tartan]

Please make a VR version of this game

[lusty wren]

How do you know? How do you know what skill level these people play at?

[lusty wren]

You 100% called them facts. But I agree you tend to OVEREXAGERATE or are flat out wrong on alot it seems.

[graceful frost]

I mean I don’t know what to say these 5 problem in here aren’t the top5 players in the game lmao. Idk haha you want from me your not the number 1 cleric

[lusty wren]

Have you played with these people? How can you evaluate their skill off of text in a discord?

[graceful frost]

Again when did I? And also I mentioned If I did it was a mistype, if you scroll up you easily see that I did mention they are opinions

[lusty wren]

Convenient

[graceful frost]

“I said I was doing odd of some good players opinions” “I think considering many many top leaderboard and best players opinion”

I mean pretty much every message I said it was there opinions not that it was facts? And if I said it was facts once which I may have I mistyped and was wrong?

[granite plinth]

why is there no popcorn eating emote

[graceful frost]

I mean it’s not me making it convenient for myself when I have said it was there opinion NOT IT WAS FACT every single time. Saying I was wrong if I said it was fact isn’t being convenient it is admitting a mistake?

[graceful frost]

My bad your the best player and cleric in the world. I have never played with you therefore I can’t say you aren’t the best player in the world .

[graceful frost]

100 percent called then facts. Yet haven’t sent a message about it. Also me over exaggerating a bit I don’t see how that’s terrible, this isn’t a court.

[abstract swallow]

I like this new "give rogue two brown healing potions" suggestion, because it gives me a reason to murder default kit Rogues.

[remote ruin]

agreed

[proud tinsel]

Thats how you know rogues are broken. People are not afraid at all.

[marble prawn]

No it just means people disagree with him, You even said it yourself "in their opinion he is wrong". Opinions are not Fact which is where Right and Wrong are dictated.

[tight gale]

What do you guys think about my suggestion? Anything I should change? I think it would be a very good addition the game and could add lots of diversity to class choices.

[agile meadow]

I think its great, fits the game perfectly

[gleaming mirage]

#d-and-d-suggestions message

Any narikk footage? 😂

[umbral lily]

that made me laugh so hard. I wouldn’t change anything that was perfect

[tight gale]

I dont know why people are downvoting 😥

@stark rain

😡

[umbral lily]

Me either. Maybe because it would be too OP but I think it’s perfect

[tight gale]

they could just nerf how much the poop-master pays

[umbral lily]

😂

[tight gale]

or how much damage the rolling poopball does

[umbral lily]

Or maybe the swarm won’t damage you instead of the skeletons

[lusty wren]

yes, this was the point 😄

[harsh belfry]

.shortinfo 1633995 just checking the count. I am also now aware that portals which have been used and disappear leave behind a faint persistent partixle effect. I still think they should crumble into visible, persistent rubble.

[eager sable]

Suggestion from Sunder#4876

Make blue and red portal break and crumble after use so that a visual cue is left behind that there was a portal that was used. Right now you can see people die in the kill feed and can find peoples corpses but there’s no way other than proximity sound to tell if a portal has been used.

Opinion:

+129

Suggestions Feed Post

[Suggestions Feed Post](#d-and-d-suggestions message)

Suggestion ID: 1633995 | Submitted at · Mar 1, 2023, 5:27 AM

[amber solstice]

I'm not sure if it was exclusive to goblin caves or if it was just an unintentional byproduct of the terrain, but in a lot cases there was a pretty significant stump left over. Just raising or extending it so it is always like that might be a much easier way.

[steep sage]

its a good suggestion and i hope it gets added. Just adds a little more clarity to the situations so you can always play to the best of your knowledge without trying to avoid someone whos already left

[harsh belfry]

I think it’s cool that you don’t get a text announcement when someone escapes but I’m a fan of environmental storytelling and I think being able to keep track of kills and then find one or two broken portals and piece together how many are left in the lobby will feel even more satisfying.

[harsh belfry]

Any method that leaves behind additions or alterations to the terrain where the portal was used would be fine by me. I’m not a fan of particle effects only though.

[rocky wharf]

.shortinfo 1638970 Cool idea or nah ?

[eager sable]

Suggestion from SwiftTwitchy#7663

[Add some capability where players could push / pull boxes & barrels away from their original location. This could be restricted to one or more classes with or without perk. It could be set to make less noise for stealthy reasons and allow classes which cannot break objects to at least move them. The intention would be to introduce more interesting player interactions or unexpected / unpredictable scenarios within the environment. An opportunity within the Dark and Darker dungeons for more ambushing or hiding in dark areas behind objects.]

Suggestions Feed Post

[Suggestions Feed Post](#d-and-d-suggestions message)

Suggestion ID: 1638970 | Submitted at · Mar 4, 2023, 3:58 AM

[amber solstice]

A compass that you had to buy like a mining pick that pointed you in the direction of the closest blue portal sounds kind of cool too.

[harsh belfry]

I thought about that as a kind of one use consumable that functions as a gold sink. Talked about it a bit before. Someone (Voidyblade maybe) floated the idea of a map of the dungeon in the dungeon and being able to interact with it and see one or two portal locations. I think the function of portal finding should be based inside the dungeon though and not on the character. Whether that be by a map or a consumable that breaks when you exit the portal so it can’t be brought back in.

[amber solstice]

Could be something like 5-10 seconds of durability before it runs out so you just have to take a quick peek and put it away and can easily run out in 1 dungeon.

[proud tinsel]

There is a tiny circle on the map with 80% of the portals, how hard is that to find?

[amber solstice]

I haven't found a portal in like two weeks. It's just a fun idea that acts as a gold sink, that can help newer players or allow people pursue early portals. And doesn't have pvp or pve balance implications. Not at all a portals are too hard to find please help kind of thing.

[pseudo mirage]

If by 80% you mean 4 out of 6 and 3 of which are already taken and the last one isn’t even in this circle but the last circle meaning it’s well in the storm now and you could be searching in the storm on the other side of the map by the time time runs out then yeah.

[floral bison]

Has the topic of Wizard being a bigot word been discussed? I feel like the person who keeps repeatedly suggesting this doesn't understand the etymology of the word and how it did not originate from Harry Potter or JK Rowling? Like, it's a 500 year old word.

[dull fulcrum]

Downvote and move on, like any other troll. (Well, that's what I do)

[floral bison]

That's about all I can do, it just gets tiring after a bit cuz it feels like half the suggestions are trolls.

[amber solstice]

The way it's worded I thought there were like Harry Potter Easter eggs or references that I wasnt aware of and not just wizard. Lol

[floral bison]

This one just in particular just felt more... confused and angry.

[lusty wren]

Wait there is a suggestion about this?

That cracks me up, people give words way to much power 😄

[floral bison]

.showinfo 1638727 mhm, this one in particular, it's the second of three.

[lusty wren]

LOL is a jk rowling reference? WTF

Hilarious, but ya id downvote and move on

[dull fulcrum]

No, that's just someone being small and unbearable.

[real trellis]

I haven't played a ton of Wizard but I hadn't noticed any Harry Potter Easter eggs. And even if there was some subtle nod to it, who cares? Rowling isn't getting any revenue off Dark and Darker so the argument that you would be "supporting a terf" doesn't hold up. People need to calm tf down and stop jumping at shadows.

[boreal elbow]

I genuinely cant tell if @still flower is memeing with his suggestions or its just self validation attempts 🫤

[lusty wren]

I hear that potter game is doing well

[floral bison]

The only argument I can see someone making is the word is akin to how a certain power during Germany's history appropriated a Buddhist symbol, and that symbol can now no longer be removed from the atrocities that group committed, but that would be a streeetch of an argument to make, given the magnitude of suspected harm in both cases.

[floral bison]

That's why I am confused by the suggestion more than "oh this is just a typical troll."

[granite plinth]

Kotai has to be a troll, noone is that dumb unless its on purpose

[boreal elbow]

idk man, ive seen people who are pretty dumb before

[dull fulcrum]

It is obviously, undoubtedly, 100% a bad faith argument meant to cause conversations exactly like this. It wouldn't surprise me if there was sock-puppeting in here.

[floral bison]

It's doing really well. Too bad it has Denuvo so it's broken on release. It's also plagued by a game breaking save delete bug.

[lusty wren]

Ya, it was cracked rather quickly also wich is even funnier

[floral bison]

I haven't found it, where did you?

[floral bison]

Are you accusing me of having that posters hand up my ass?

[amber solstice]

Do you know of other popular games that had save delete bugs? Now that you mention it, I remember it ruining a game for me but cant remember which one it was. Probably a decade ago. Lol

[lusty wren]

Empress cracked it

[verbal marsh]

arche age fishing boat memory leak, was my fav part of game to fish and pvp... sad that ruined it before the expansion ruined game lol. also any game with duping has save delete bugs lol suffice to say, nearly them all.

[sudden glacier]

what do you guys think about the stash, what are your suggestions, I got some dislikes so I would like to know some suggestions, in my case my stash gets full very fast, now imagine with monthly wipes

[floral bison]

If you're talking a roughly a decade ago, No Man's Sky?

[floral bison]

Ooooh perfect I'll actually give it a try then. Did they completely remove the Denuvo check or just spoof it? Cuz I don't want the FPS drops it causes, my system is not beefy enough.

[verbal marsh]

nothing has value aside from candy and ores, stack gold, get resources, sell bs.

[floral bison]

What was your suggest ID?

[sudden glacier]

New stash pages, 2.5k for the new page and each new page should cost double, for example once you have a new stash page the next one would cost 5000 and the next 10000, I think that maybe 5k for the first page would be more fair

[dull fulcrum]

I think the basics of your suggestion, and others like it, are pretty solid. I am in wait-and-see mode as I believe Ironmace has plans for that aspect of the game. Playtest 4 is likely not the go-live economy that we'll be playing with, which means there are a lot of moving pieces to consider for changes to stash/prices/etc.

[sudden glacier]

It should be hard to get another page, maybe the could do it by completing quests with the new system that they are planning

[lusty wren]

I have not used it, but empress cracks normally runs very smooth even with denuvo titles so id assume its good

[verbal marsh]

Imagine cross character xfers to be the easiest aspect to monetize like tarkov, trade storage regarding edition upgrade.

[floral bison]

I also agree with your suggestion, and Stegos take. I still think we have a lot of pretty drastic overhauls on the horizon before we see an idea of the final product.

[verbal marsh]

@GenesisRunner#1025 i like that idea, would be funny if whenever you tried to swing a weapon w/o mastery you hit your own feet, also would make taking nice found items out easier when they're as big as a spear or pavise.

Then again, I think if they added equipable backpacks to weapons slot that would be even better.

Further limit player invantory with backpack sizes and allow players to equip them in 2nd hand to more easily carry out loot.

would probably have default backpack be half your invantory, and equipping 2nd hand doubling it for starters as a test.

[amber solstice]

Limited inventory space has the intended effect of preventing hoarding. Gold taking up huge amounts of space compounds the intention further. Increasing the time and effort to spend gold compounds that even further.

Restrictions like these lead to player circumvention. Mule characters, mule accounts, alternative currencies. These can be seen as pay to win, cheating, unfun by other players and devs.

Devs can alleviate this in a number of different ways. They can promote spending all your gold via gambling or making candy trades for all items and removing the limits on consumables. Same goes for using all your items by promoting scenarios that require better gear or vendors giving significantly higher payouts. They could even make all items in the stash 1x1 and only use size for your character. They can add unfriendly mechanics that hinder normal gameplay in some way. Character limits or basically anything Tarkov has ever implemented in the name of RMT. Huge trade fees, found in raid, rarity limits etc.

I think allowing players to essentially see all of their characters stashes and trade between their characters with normal trade windows and the 30g fee probably alleviates a lot of the pressure and maintains what is essentially possible with a friend and eliminates a lot of the possible advantages and downtime their system creates while maintaining an infinite gold sink rather than fixed and still promoting sticking to a smaller stash.

[verbal marsh]

so were you to kill someone, take their backpack, you'd have full invantory size and a backpack on 2nd hand. you can put another one in your invo for half your invo size so its not artificially increasing your invo size hrm.

[gray vessel]

Honestly there is too much stash space. No one should feel secure to fail multiple times because they are so rich

Should be enough room for your set and 2 spare sets in the stash max, with a little bit extra for spare gold and items you want to give to a friend in raid 🙂

[verbal marsh]

Then they can have the backpacks be draggable to your bank slot as one of the additional storage slots until larger one is earned.

be little loot and scoot setup sets you can prepare for quick drag and drop inserts.

[amber solstice]

The only way to enforce that specific scenario is to disable trading.

[floral bison]

There's the ThinkTank we love. I respect the thought and effort. I think trading between characters is a fine and good thing to enable, But players will always want to goblin. I don't see much harm in allowing for more space within your storage, at the expense of a hefty buy-in, which acts as a gold sink as well. What I like about this game is there is a set inventory in actual gameplay, so you then have to really pick and choose what you loot. But I don't see a reason to not allow hoarding.

[verbal marsh]

So what do you guys think of that idea; Halve invantory sizes, make backpacks equipable, so you can have 50% x2 with a mainhand giving you the current invantory system, or get additional space by equipping both hands with a backpack and being a pack rat. You can drag them to your slots, but they take up the entire invo like a tarkov bag, and you can use them for bank storage by dragging them to the open tabs to create grab bags for when you reset.

[sudden glacier]

I dont know what kind of much space are you talking about, last day I had full epics and legendaries and no space at all the only way was trading between accounts with friends or selling to merchants

[verbal marsh]

I think default gear shouldn't be auto replaced upon death, it should require an interaction with an npc that talks shit to you everytime and if you've x gold he simply refuses you.

[amber solstice]

I'm not for or against hoarding. But designing a system with a very specific type of gameplay in mind that doesn't restrict all other possible types of gameplay requires the system to either be corrected or for the other possible gameplay to be accepted.

I think extra storage tabs for huge gold is a great idea quality of life, convenience, and gold sink. I do think that it can be easily dismissed as too softcore or outside of the devs vision. Coming up with a similar answer that uses their own logic and game design as the basis is a much better argument, at least to me. If the system they designed currently allows it, it should be fair game.

[sudden glacier]

I don't think that abusing the system with infinite stashes and an awful way to stash more things between different accounts is the ideal way to stash

[amber solstice]

I think free starter gear is one of the best ideas this game has. It let's you get back into the game so much faster. Forcing them to have money just means they run around naked and punching things and are way more likely to quit before they ever get to the point of making money.

[verbal marsh]

I didn't mention anything about getting rid of starter gear, I was stating it shouldn't be auto replaced to where experienced players with backup sets have to delete it.

[heady pine]

add a delete key and its fine

[verbal marsh]

A pop requesting whether you would like to see this popup again would be fine as well, which is honestly worse however.

[amber solstice]

A simple toggle switch that says do not replace starter gear could be a nice QoL feature if you absolutely never wear any piece of starting gear ever again. Adding an unnecessary interaction to get it is just bad and is actually removing the thing you are complaining about for yourself and giving it to other people.

[verbal marsh]

An interaction with the priest npc that has disable starter gear would be fine.

Actually it would be cool if there was a quest to change the look and setup of your starter gear tbh, and maybe an npc interaction that dictates the item config.

then they can just autocharge you the market prices

nm thats too much qol

[pseudo wing]

they could have a centralized bank that you can stash your gold in but every time you withdraw gold the bank takes a 15% cut so it removes gold from the economy but also lets ppl store tons of gold

[verbal marsh]

2 silver per gold transaction, so 20 gold, gets you 18.

[amber solstice]

I absolutely agree with you. They could do some pretty extreme things depending on what they want to accomplish. It shifts the argument from being seen as "I'm a hoarder, more space please" to "I can do this with a middle man or 2nd account, can I just do this by myself?" Basically every anti hoarder auto downvotes the first scenario. The second at least makes it a little more skewed towards quality of life but accomplishes the same thing. And then once you have that you apply the same process. We already have infinite stash, quality of life please.

[proud tinsel]

Was people having to much money a problem? When my stash was stacked i looted less shit. I would be fine if they disabled trade though. RNG is your god now.

[turbid ermine]

[proud tinsel]

Moving stuff around is pretty easy with triangle trading if you wanna avoid the trade tax

You also risk losing it doing it that way if there is a group hunting down players in your lobby

[verbal marsh]

I'd be fine with enabling gathering hub disabling leaderboard gains. Kappa

[dull fulcrum]

If they do end up including a same account trade system, I would hope Ironmace would use that as an opportunity to introduce a flavorful NPC to add character to the process.

[proud tinsel]

Ultimately with wipes hording is a you problem, which I will run into I have shit in my everquest bank from over 20 years ago

[pseudo wing]

I hope they jack up loot scarcity next test. When they did it in Pt.3 ppl complained and they set it back. gotta cut the supply someday

[proud tinsel]

I saw interviews where they said the pace of progression would slow down

Players will always beat devs expectations though

[amber solstice]

I played more than most people. I had 12 20s, and they all had 3-6k gold 100+ candy, and every slot filled with epic+ gear. Aside from buying the every consumable available from the merchant, buying any gear that was better than stuff in my inventory was literally impossible. All I saw was this person is trading someone else. Doing that repeatedly for hours, I resorted to just buying ore and candy and gambling every neck/ring/leg/glove I saw and buying all 10 stacks of francescas from the woodsman every reset.

I would love a solo self found game mode for sure even if its limited time or something.

[proud tinsel]

Yeah when I got to that point I was picking up randos gearing them and trying to lose shit

I do want to try some mining this time through though..

[turbid ermine]

mining sucks

[proud tinsel]

If i dont test it how am i going to complain about how its broken

[sudden glacier]

what are your theories of how b1 is going to work? my theory is that Is going to be like 30-40 players and maybe like 16 portals that take you to level 2 but my question is, if you will be able to escape from b1 or you have to go to b2 first to try to escape, im just so excited I love this game

[turbid ermine]

So much time wasted just doing an action and so many times you got to mine to craft anything

[sudden glacier]

probably loot is getting super nerfed

[turbid ermine]

hopefully

[thick widget]

They have to add Kratos as a boss

[amber solstice]

32 players.
Either basically the same design just easier/less hp monsters with worse loot.

Or down/escape portals everywhere from basically the beginning so that you can easily escape at almost any time. Makes it harder to kill people or die in general. Incentivizes better players to just drop down to B2 instead of stomping B1 people.

Could even be the 2nd way for normal and the 1st way for high roller.

[slate tartan]

Interested to see how many squares they will make a 32 player map

[amber solstice]

I'm curious to see how well the game handles having that many players.

[dull fulcrum]

Kill feed is just 18 players dying to boars

[verbal marsh]

I would like a race to going down, and a boss to spawn after quota is full to where everyone has to run back to outter edge or fight a high level monster and minions that slowly exit the dungeon.

[slate tartan]

I think alot will come down to the map design tbh, but a map that big with so many people would have to have slower/larger circle I would feel, maybe even two separate circles if it's an 7x7 or 8x8 map

[amber solstice]

Yeah I really hope they dont overdo mob density or mobs that attack incredibly fast like goblin caves probably did. Not sure if their intention with goblin caves was to be easier or challenging.

[slate tartan]

I would say challenging judging from the pre nerf goblins 🤣

[amber solstice]

But man did most people get wrecked by goblins lol.

[somber wind]

.shortinfo 1639123

[eager sable]

Suggestion from Zandorum#6027

Due to avg. gold leaving High Roller being 185 as per the statistics shown having High Roller cost 100 instead of 75 like last test is making it more profitable to be in the normal dungeon with good gear than high roller and a good idea to return to Normal after getting your named gear. Lowering High Roller to 75 like in test 3 or increasing the average gold leaving high roller in some fashion needs to be done.

Opinion:

-1

Suggestions Feed Post

[Suggestions Feed Post](#d-and-d-suggestions message)

Suggestion ID: 1639123 | Submitted at · Mar 4, 2023, 7:19 AM

[somber wind]

Why are people against this? It's proven that it's better to be in normal after getting your gear.

[verbal marsh]

highlighted reach weapons over short range, and the basics of q animation to defeat foe. Caves were pretty easy once you learned your outputs.

[verbal marsh]

gold is not inclusive to item drops, candy, and rarity.

185 in high roller is not 185 in normal, if you took the same amount of jewelry a player in normal is to match hr, you'd have 3-500g.

[slate tartan]

People don't take gold from HR because they're stacked with purples 🤣

[somber wind]

It was 110g avg in normal though from the statistics?

[verbal marsh]

thats more then half your invo in jewelry, thats probably an items space in hr.

[floral bison]

If you ask me, it should be double. 150g or bust.

[somber wind]

Double would be 200g, it's 100g right now.

[floral bison]

I thought it was 75g, I wouldn't know Cuz I didn't roll high.

[verbal marsh]

imagine, you're filling your invo with trash flawed jewelry in normal, if a player took the same amount in hr with rare and legendary jewelry drops it would far exceed lol.

[somber wind]

Nah it's 100 which I think is hurting the worth of entering. It used to be 75.

[amber solstice]

Absolutely. Castle mobs are just all incredibly slow and telegraphed with much lower density. And the map layout is way simpler. And the goblin cave stats were abysmal although most new solo players probably expected the solo experience to be the easiest.

[turbid ermine]

Would help people migrate to HR which the stats listed as an issue, so I'm all up for the price returning

[somber wind]

Exactly

[turbid ermine]

Specially for when gold gain is nerfed

[somber wind]

I feel like gold gain being nerfed to increase the worth of a single gold coin would help the game alot

[floral bison]

Fun but round about effect of that (one i'm relishing in thinking about), is with gold being more valuable, it makes the goblin gamble hurt all the more when he gives you grey/white trash.

[graceful frost]

I mean high roller isnt better just for gold. I dont play high roller to make gold I play it to get good gear cause people run good gear in there

[slate tartan]

Besides people trying for treasure collector not many go in there for gold, just use the better jewelry items to fill the spots the gear doesnt

[turbid ermine]

most people ran mediocre greens

[graceful frost]

not rlly

[turbid ermine]

Rarely did I find a worthwile stat roll in HR

[graceful frost]

normally found at least 1 good geared team a game.

[amber solstice]

Incentivizing high roller is in a really tough spot. It was what, 1.5% of games played? So it's an incredibly exclusive club filled with all of the best players in your region. Do you just keep increasing the rewards until playing anything but high roller is worthless? Do you make it free and reduce the rewards? So it invites everyone to play it? Do you add a version in between normal and high roller? So the top gets separated?

[graceful frost]

in my opinion one of the best ways to make amount of high roller players go up is a solo high roller. I didnt play high roller much purely cause I was almost always solo, and I really dont enjoy how slow and safe you have to play when solo high roller

[amber solstice]

Absolutely. Solo play has been over 60% of games the last two playtests. About 30% of my game play was solo high roller. 40-50% solo normal castle.

[floral bison]

I think I would heavily play a solo high roller, just for the chance of picking that one person who has decent gear. If you can escape even with that, you made your HR down payment back and some.

[graceful frost]

yeah. I did a lot of solo normal castle, but I also had a lot of fun in goblin caves. The main reason I didn't play more goblin caves was cause you couldnt do hr

and I don't think it would be too easy either, current goblin caves are very very action packed and enemies are pretty hard along with not a ton escape portals

[amber solstice]

I played 2 goblin caves early on and died due to not being able to find an escape portal and never saw another person. But played it for the entire 2nd to last day of the playtest and had a blast.

[graceful frost]

yeah I played a good bit early on, and a pretty good amount at the middle and end of the playtest

I had a lot of fun. there is so much action, however some of the spawns are pretty bad. I just wanted to try a bit more high roller and was using the lfg channel for it but I would have had a lot of fun in a solo high roller

Im not against the gold cost lowering either, but I just don't think it would change much.

[keen ore]

Goblin gambling when I learned of its existence crippled me financially

[inner thorn]

i think not all players know about it (including me). explain please

[keen ore]

The goblin shop you buy an item you see for 75 gold but the rarity and stats on said item are unknown till purchase

So you know it’s a gambeson but you don’t know if it’s grey or if it’s purple or if it’s no stats or if it got hella stats. It’s a rush to gamble all your money away 💀

Just a fun way to gamble a couple hundred gold away especially when approaching wipes

[inner thorn]

for me it was shoving rarity (blue, purple),but dont show additional stats, is it like fake rarity?

[keen ore]

Possibly showing fake rarity? For me it just had a grey name and unknown on all stats and then I’d buy it and it would change colors and become really cool or it would be the utmost garbage you’ve ever seen

[inner thorn]

well its still 75g, i woud buy it if it was my character class but it give me longswords when im rogue main

[keen ore]

Yes that’s why it put me in crippling debt

Everytime his stock renewed I was gambling and that’s unlucky I was cleric got some cool stuff but sometimes I’d gamble on fighter or rogue gear items to just to sell them back to the player shop if they are worth anything.

[inner thorn]

i was making money basically and afraid of spending it becouse of endless death loop so maybe next playtest will try it more

[keen ore]

Yeah it’s fun I’d say gamble all your money away day before wipe 😂 it feels less awful that way just incase you only get trash.

[rugged pilot]

Sellin 3 heart candy as 8 and making bank from the guys scamming on Trade Hall

[inner thorn]

also i think it will be restricted from market later, i dont believe they will not include tarkov restrictions

[rugged pilot]

The scammers you scammed paid for the Goblin rolls

[pallid lichen]

that one post about giving rogue health pots i totally disagree with. Rogue should just get throwing daggers. just buff his starting dagger and hes fine.

[boreal forge]

Wouldn't a fencer class make sense? It could introduce some main weapons like: Spadone, Epee or Estoc and some secondary weapons: bladecatcher knife, parry dagger, steel ring hem cape(for redirecting an incoming blow or hiding your main hand weapon.
Like why not?

[boreal forge]

Nah, give him the Balestrino crossbow. Low damage extremely low rate of fire but better range and can inflict poison

[pallid lichen]

but thats not a dnd class so it wouldnt fit the theme

[pallid lichen]

seems kinda similar to the poison throwing knives. but im not agaisnt it. just not sure if its worth deverloper resources

[cold condor]

it's just a rogue/fighter with fancy weapons

[boreal forge]

Well why am I then seeing hints of HEMA and historically overlooked weapons and tools used during the medieval period. They aren't brain dead medieval fantasy, they are taking some really cool historically accurate medieval elements into their game.

[pallid lichen]

i personally want rogues starter kit to not have healing items.

[pallid lichen]

yeah but fencer isnt a dnd class. all the classes in the game are specific dnd classes.

[boreal forge]

No starter kit should have healing items. But what I'm saying is that the long sword set of animations for a parry punish (specifically the double horizontal slash) is well practised in HEMA and where are they saying it has to be DnD?

Or are you just assuming. Cause I don't see a problem of there being introduced morr variety of playstyles

[turbid ermine]

All starter kits safe for barb should have a healing item...for new players to not just hate the game

[cold condor]

Bandages and potions have no impact unless in bulk. I doubt that adding dozen bandages or surgical to a starter kit is a good idea

[pallid lichen]

but rogue is uniquely equiped to avoid damage. Its the game telling you "your not supposed to get hit as rogue". instead it gives you throwing knives. basically telling you "youre supposed to strike intelligently so they never get a chance to hit you"

[turbid ermine]

A single bandage, specially when starting, is a big difference

Every class should avoid damage, a single bandage won't discourage that while been forgiving for the new folk

[floral bison]

I think you mean save for Cleric, who already comes with a heal. The only class that should not have a pot/bandage in their start kit would be a cleric. And I do mean A pot, or A bandage. Nothing mmore.

[pallid lichen]

i like the unique feeling of starting as rogue. no heals makes traking damage even more punishing for him. as a rogue main i love it as is. i hope they don't water down the feeling of rogue by listening to those suggestions.

[turbid ermine]

Well we'll see how good or bad player retention is on EA

[floral bison]

The classes are pretty strictly DnD classes. However, a Fencer as a subclass for Fighter or Rogue wouldn't be out the realm of possibility. The realism and historical weaponry they add to the game is definitely part of the charm of this game, but it's not the be all and end all I don't believe. This is a game with Wizards and a crowned bed sheet, after all.

[cold condor]

Single bandage is nothing, it's 8 hp heal. When even skeleton footman hits at 20+ damage at average, it won't be enough to survive another hit most of the time.

[pallid lichen]

honestly if you want to help game retention for rogue, then listen to my other suggestion instead. buff his starting dagger to 16 and give him a Castilian so new players miss less shots.

[turbid ermine]

8 hp means wiz as an example can survive an extra hit.

[turbid ermine]

Gave it a thumbs up ages ago, just anything, like with wiz starter kit, that makes trying the class better

[inner thorn]

well you can buy heals or take them from dead bodies and take them on next trip

[pallid lichen]

if its nothing (which i agree it is) then they are better off not adding it at all. it gets rid of the all the benfit that im pointing out, without really helping out the players much.

[atomic mountain]

Rogue and Wizard probably both need a better low end start tbf

[pallid lichen]

i agree, but for rogue that buff shouldnt come in the form of starting heals. I just think it removes a particular unique feeling of the starter rogue.

[atomic mountain]

It’s hard to say. I think every class should start with 3 low(even lower than purchasable) end reds and 3 bandages . But that’s just me.
If that happened it wouldn’t keep as much of the same brutal feel, but they’d also be so low quality that you’d die anyway if you didn’t tighten up

[cold condor]

Magic staff needs a rework, it's the worst casting focus right now.

For rogue, it won't be half as bad if he had a rapier instead of dagger in the starter kit.

[pallid lichen]

what would be the purpose of doing this for the game?

[atomic mountain]

Rogue isn’t meant to take dmg, but his daggers force him into the danger zone for mobs. His clear is awful

[pallid lichen]

dude but hes fast enough to eaily dodge. alot of people think hes actually really good for PVE

[pallid lichen]

rapier strays alittle bit too far from the rogues image. most of his weapons are daggers, so he should start with a type of dagger.

[atomic mountain]

It would give newbies a bit of help, without changing much. Being able to recover 8 hp and 10 hp 3 time each wouldn’t really be that impactful on the games brutal feel because mobs will still hit you for 30-50 each time anyways

[pallid lichen]

but i think the brutal feel is part of the fun of the game. i mightve actaully been less intreasted in the game if it gave me that many heaals, as wierd as it sounds.

[cold condor]

but now you have an extra incentive to hunt ungeared players, not sure if it's good or bad.

[atomic mountain]

I never really use the starter consumables that much because they are almost useless if all you get is one of one type lol

[atomic mountain]

Yeah true, I could see that as a potential issue

That’s why my initial approach on the subject was predicated with “It’s hard to say”

[pallid lichen]

it also heavily inflates the supply of healing items

[atomic mountain]

Yeah but they’re trash ones, remember you cannot stash these or sell them for any gold at all

[cold condor]

If you're taking hits in PvE regularly, couple of bandages won't help you that much in reaching blue portal.

[pallid lichen]

thats not the only reason why too much supply is bad. just the fact that heals would feel less rare an valuable is bad in my opinion.

[atomic mountain]

Most would be churned or tossed away if not used by the initial user

[atomic mountain]

That’s my point lol they’d be very useless for most people unless they wanted to recover from one or two hits and that’s it, they’d be gone very quickly

[pallid lichen]

yeah but now healing items are too common. its a fun feeling to struggle to survive and get better at as you get better at the game.

with your change tons of dead bodys would have alot of heals.

[atomic mountain]

Better ones would be made even more rare so…

[pallid lichen]

the rarity of health pots and bandages arent that important. if you have time to pop 5 of them.

[atomic mountain]

What I meant is that the good purchasable ones would be less frequently found on players. Making them more rare to find overall

[cold condor]

My point is, they don't remedy a problem of dying to PvE, since it's often due to taking way too many hits, not from general attrition.

[atomic mountain]

Exactly my point, it would change things, but not much

[pallid lichen]

yeah, i know what you're saying. but your idea still changes the game in some ways i don't like.

[atomic mountain]

I got no skin in the game personally, I’m fine with what I got and I do well and don’t bother with the trash consumables I’m given anyways. Was just chewing on the idea

[pallid lichen]

no hes saying that it creates problems without being as effective as you think at solving the problem you want to fix with this change.

[atomic mountain]

So why are we asking for a health potion for the rogue to begin with?🥴

[pallid lichen]

i was argueing against that idea?

[amber solstice]

Maybe have every class have access to a sub par healing ability? So when they feel like the mastered pve they can swap to something else?

[pallid lichen]

i don't think rogue should have healing abilities or starter utility.

[atomic mountain]

But Stephan was making my point with his logic, not countering it. I think

[pallid lichen]

not sure where stephen lies on this lol.

[atomic mountain]

My initial reaction to giving a class a new starter potion was just give everyone more trash quality heals shrug

[cold condor]

My point was that this won't fix the core issue, so why bother.

[amber solstice]

Yeah. It was moreso to eliminate lootable meds and give a drawback.

[pallid lichen]

yeah i had a feeling thats what you were saying

[atomic mountain]

Then why are you even advocating for a potion for rogue at all? That’s my misunderstanding

If the core issue is taking dmg and I want potion, how does potion no can fix?

[pallid lichen]

hmm, i see the logic. as long as the abilities can match the dnd classes rather then being some boring copy paste thing, and be viable in multiple levels of play while not being OP that would be a cool idea.

[atomic mountain]

What if the meds are made to be character bound?
Already can’t stash or sell them.

[amber solstice]

Or maybe everyone gets to pick 1 starter item? Potion/bandage/throwable?

[inner thorn]

replace useless knifes with bandage and deal

[pallid lichen]

hmm, the choice thing is interesting. not totally against it. It should be options based on the classes. like the rogue should choose between different non-healing utility based around the rogue. maybe invis pot vs throwing knives. i like how rogue gets no heals.

[pallid lichen]

so just water down the design of the class? disgaree.

[inner thorn]

or give ability to buy better knifes or at least loot them, now its really hard to do

[atomic mountain]

I think the reason they didn’t give everyone consumables, or at least not a significant amount, was to create a gold sink. We gotta spend gold on something utility and consumable wise imo or runs wouldn’t hold any significant feeling at all

[pallid lichen]

knives show up in the shop dont they?

[atomic mountain]

So maybe 3+3 is way over the top

[inner thorn]

white, with a damage of toilet scrapper

[turbid ermine]

Rupture works on em

[amber solstice]

Knives definitely are in the shop.

[atomic mountain]

Maybe, 1x 8 hp bandage. 1x 12 hp potion? Would be aight

[pallid lichen]

17 damage is ok for buyable knives in my opinion. (but higher tier knives should show up every once in a while, which im pretty sure they already do)

[inner thorn]

not like on daggers: it used when you shoot anyway, not matters you hit target or not

[turbid ermine]

It works on first hit with daggers too... and missing should remove rupture and weak spot

[pallid lichen]

some classes should have more heals than others. don't think every class should necessarily get that.

[cold condor]

Rogue starter kit needs a boost, that's for sure. Because currently the only useful item there is a throwing knife. Starting dagger is barely an improvement over fists for rogue. But I doubt that single healing item would do the job. It has to be something with more oompf. Molotov, perhaps?

[inner thorn]

no when you miss with daggers it give you second chance to land hit

[atomic mountain]

The throwables main function is to slow someone down. They only do dmg on barb bc of strength and perks. But they do scale with gear. Trust, as a rogue you want em

[turbid ermine]

Which is dumb

[inner thorn]

other classes have exactly same feauture

[pallid lichen]

hard agree. nerf weakpoint. my rework idea adresses this very issue lol

[turbid ermine]

Doesn't make it any less dumb for buffs with unlimited time.

[amber solstice]

I think most people dont really understand how game changing using all your gold from your first escape to stock up on a bunch of grey weapons from the merchant. A lot of the issues people have are just from the game basically not existing. Lol

[turbid ermine]

People tended to hoard first escape stuff, not invest

[pallid lichen]

Rupture:
If you miss the buff goes away in 6 seconds, (but it can still be stored on your weapon indefinitely)

Weak point:
The buff goes away 6 seconds after use. (can't be stored indefinitely)

Weakpoint and rupture function in different ways that make rupture slightly more user-friendly (even better for new players) to make up for how much worse it generally is than weakpoint (especially with mid to late-game gear)

[amber solstice]

Rupture torch kills are BiS.

[inner thorn]

now rupture also stucks with will (+5 will gives 50 damage) but its more like a bug

[amber solstice]

And people will have gold and just not buy a grey rondel for 8g or white one for 20g and complain how bad free starting gear damage is.

[pallid lichen]

with +5 will rupture does 50 daamage?

[inner thorn]

10 per s 5 s = 50

[amber solstice]

Yeah, no benefit until 10 will though then crazy insane dmg spike because of rounding I think.

[inner thorn]

because its magic damage and game gives rogue ultra debuff for magic damage. when you lift off those debuff with stats it give you insane damage modifier per s

[pallid lichen]

well i do think the starter dagger is a little too bad. should be 16 damaged castillion dagger IMO. (fists shouldn't do more damage then your dagger)but yeah i agree you can't complain if you don't invest in your character.

[atomic mountain]

Yeah fair. I do be buying upgrades and 3 of each consumable first chance I get.
But can we talk about the wizard start? It’s the worst, according to the data AND the community.
Change my mind

[pallid lichen]

no way. i honestly dont believe you. i never used rupture so idk.

[inner thorn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iNZ-kgd4Qc

i think it will be fixed next playtest its obviously a bug

ok i rethink that and i missed passive poison ability and rupture sorry

but as its passive its even more hillarious

rupture deals phys dmg so need something for that probably

[cold condor]

Wizard starter kit isn't all that bad. He can cast spells and has boots. It's just that magic staff has the honor of being both worst melee weapon and worst spellcasting focus at the same time.

[amber solstice]

Spellcasting scaling for both attributes and weapon choice really ruin starter wizard. And their balance changes so far haven't touched the issue. It also suffers from a very unconventional spell usage mechanic, is the only class that requires downtime to kill mobs at a reasonable pace, has the biggest threat of friendly fire, and has the lowest hp and healing capabilities. There is literally nothing going for it until geared and skilled.

Need to nerf the scaling and buff the bottom end. QoL with keybinds option vs pie wheel clicking. Perhaps conal splash instead of circular. Probably buff their melee weapons.

[inner thorn]

more str? maybe use those 15s booze for +11 str

[pallid lichen]

wait i didn't see any rupture numbers only poison numbers in that video. u have a time stamp?

ok just saw your edits. no but it's actually balanced. that poison damage he did was by no means OP.

[junior owl]

why are some suggestions green?

[atomic mountain]

Yeah. Fix staff. Thing is so bad. I just hope they can make the bottom end feel more effective without toning down the top end potential because I do like that it’s a class who’s value is hugely predicated on skill expression.
I hope they find a way to do both like you said

[inner thorn]

bot counts positive-negative reactions and in summ those suggestions are positive

[junior owl]

some are positive without green

[inner thorn]

it dont count them every second?

[inner thorn]

well it ignores armour and stuck up to 5 times

[pallid lichen]

yeah i know, but its still balanced. he got 28 damage per tick only after getting all 5 stacks of poison in. when you take into acount you have to hit someone 5 times to do that much poison damage, the fact that the dummy has -MR, and the fact that physical damage has more capbilities to stack with more acess to modifiers like headshots, ambush,backstab etc. it begins to look more balanced.

[slate tartan]

Think it's the ones with 80% approval that go green

[junior owl]

ah ok that makes more sense

[amber solstice]

Staff and crystal sword definitely feel like they were early development weapons that never got readjusted in power level to match everything else.

[pallid lichen]

#d-and-d-suggestions message

doesnt this buff just make dagger mastery work with rapiers? still barely a good enough buff. 5% damage is still nothing.

[atomic mountain]

You think so? Crystal sword feels fine to me and seems to fit well in it’s unique appeal compared to the others.
Staff is just bad and was likely not touched as you said, but it’s clear it needs some love

[junior owl]

idk why everyone thinks 5% isnt worth it , if you're going a hit build stacking phys or true damage that 5% makes a difference

[atomic mountain]

Even 3% changes can be felt. To me at least.

[junior owl]

i noticed i would outright kill more often with 5% than trade

[amber solstice]

Crystal sword felt like it could hit anything in 10 ft of me to cancel the cast and way too slow after using a spellbook.

[atomic mountain]

Idk what that suggestion was asking for. Not sure what is meant by Finesse Weapon Mastery

[pallid lichen]

really horribly worded lol. It seems to make the 5% apply to all weapons rather then just daggers. as if that somehow makes that perk useful.

[junior owl]

"Finesse Weapon Mastery" meaning they want 5% damage for all weps and were trying to be creative with the name

[atomic mountain]

Yeah that’s true, but the sword feels like it’s a weapon firstly and a casting tool second. Does great at one and not that good at the other is ok with me

[atomic mountain]

What other class gets a benefit from “all weapons at their disposal” though. That would be my Huh? Moment

[junior owl]

oh i agree its a bad idea and takes away from identity and adds gernerics

[atomic mountain]

All damage boosting perks ask you to make a choice, to specialize

2h only, headshot only, axes only, daggers only, fire spells only, etc

Would make more sense as a “1H only 5% dmg” buff to me

[amber solstice]

Yeah, anyone asking for a perk to just be universally better just wants buffs any way they can get them. Perks are supposed to benefit making choices.

[pallid lichen]

any perk that does a 5% buff is useless, especially for rogues that get a majority of their damage from perks and skills.

[atomic mountain]

I wouldn’t know specific knowledge on that as I played rogue the least. But I can confirm 3% buff to anything feels good (noticeable not good) on any class I’ve played

Just realized there are two levels of gray gear. Did not notice that till now xD

[pallid lichen]

you actually run the mastery perks?

[amber solstice]

5% isnt useless even if it is weak. I run rupture+weak point. So backstab, poison, dagger, lock pick usually.

[atomic mountain]

What is the starting point on physical power?
Because If it’s 10% base level 5% is huge is it not?

[pallid lichen]

5% on a perk. is usually an opportunity cost.

[amber solstice]

Kill a dude, kite until CDs are back up. Rinse and repeat.

[pallid lichen]

on a dagger that does 20 damage, 5% is 1 damage. you spent a whole perk point for 1 damage. compare that to poison weapon, or any other perk and its a total joke.

[atomic mountain]

They start with -17%
5% cuts the loss by almost a third. Seems pretty ok to me

[pallid lichen]

dude its still 1 damage. on a 20 damage dagger. no matter how you slice it

[atomic mountain]

Yeah I do see what you’re getting at, percentage doesn’t help much if you’re using a toothpick lol

[glacial sphinx]

its not even just for toothpicks, 5% is pretty bad even on the hard ihtting weapons

[atomic mountain]

It’s all daggers

[pallid lichen]

i mean persoanlly i think the 5% perks are all useless. not just for rogues

[glacial sphinx]

axe specs +10 flat is better even on the unique axe by far

[amber solstice]

How many attacks do you do in a raid? If the answer is 0, it is in fact useless.

[atomic mountain]

I think they scale well, but are not helpful early on I can agree with that

[pallid lichen]

that perk should be nerfed to like +5. and it would still be better then the other mastery perks. the other mastery perks should be reworked too.

[atomic mountain]

Yeah everyone knows axe spec needs turned down, i Barbed the most other than my Wizzy and I’m with you on that

[pallid lichen]

if dagger mastery gave +3 it would be interesting. but there could be even better solutions.

[atomic mountain]

I think every class should have some perks that help a lot more early on but aren’t that impactful later on, and vice versa

[amber solstice]

Its balanced around the double axe. Felling axe and Francesca both swing too fast.

[glacial sphinx]

I'd be okay if its like +6 but really they should improve all the 5% damage perks in the game. Either make them flat to help with starting off, which I think axe spec feels great for, or just increase the percentage to +10% or so I guess.

[amber solstice]

Dagger +3 would be absolutely disgusting.

[pallid lichen]

i actaully don't know about this. i don't like perks that become obsolete in the high levels. for example, poison dagger is good early but it can be used in poison builds in the high end. but +3 damage would be totally useless in the high end. i don't like that.

[glacial sphinx]

And if they do that they'd need to cut down some +flat damage from the endgame gear (they should do this anyway).

[pallid lichen]

wouldnt be broken IMO. but i think there are better reworks ideas, that can also be usefll for high level rogues.

[amber solstice]

Barb get the big damage perk because they are so slow they shouldn't hit you. How much speed are other classes willing to give up for higher damage perks?

[atomic mountain]

Yeah but you’re making my point in a way. If there’s clearly a set of perks that are better than others at every level then you’ll never have to change your build as you go. Which could be considered part of skill expression knowing that you should do this or that at a certain point in time or gear level

[glacial sphinx]

Well lets say they cut +damage values from gear in half, I think +3 would remain relevant on daggers all throughout though maybe not always best

[pallid lichen]

thats not skill, that just math. (spreadsheet related stuff). i dont like that form of "skill" in a game. "this is always better then this ona starter rogue"

[atomic mountain]

I think a lot of economists with masters degrees would argue that it is skill lol

[pallid lichen]

its not the kind of skill that i think is healthy for the game. because it hinders creativity rather then embrace it.

[atomic mountain]

Knowing what perks are better at what point in power level is a part of every game with such mechanics

[pallid lichen]

just because other games do it doesnt mean we should too. idk. again im not totally against the +3 damage perk, but this element of the perk (making it always usefull in the beginning, always useless later on) would be a downside rather than an upside of the perk.

the best argument for it would be that it can still be used with throwing knives in the late game.

[atomic mountain]

Yeah I’m not saying it needs to be black and white I think that’s where our misunderstanding is. I’m just saying that there should be certain perks that are more beneficial early on and certain perks that are clearly more beneficial later on, depending on multiple things, not necessarily just your gear quality. Just because something skills really well at a high level does it mean you’re going to use it because you don’t like to use 2h for example

You still have to make certain choices in your play style and gear type. I’m not trying to say that there should be one set play style that’s good

[pallid lichen]

im ok with a perk being beneficial early on(poison weapon) but more against a perk being USELESS in the late game. there has to be some utility to the perk later on.

the main issue i have with the +3 idea is that it would be totally unequivically useless in the late game.

[atomic mountain]

As an example axe specialization even if it was turned down a little bit would still be better than 5% on a two hand or if you’re two hand or doesn’t do that much base damage. But at a certain point if you’re running a really hard hitting slow two handed weapon that 5% becomes a lot bigger. Knowing that and making that choice to pick that item that fits your play style should net you a benefit.

[pallid lichen]

yeah thats true. but the think about axe specialization that makes it useful late game is how well they work with francescas.

[atomic mountain]

Otherwise you run the risk of everybody always running the top four perks all the time at every level (kills variety and player choice imo)

You’re advocating that every perk should be affective at every level but it’s hard to balance around that because scaling is just part of the game and it always will be

[atomic mountain]

Which the community and Stats have shown to be a broken thing that will probably be turned down lol

[pallid lichen]

they dont have to be 100% equally as effective. but there should be A REASON why a high geared player would want to take any perk. doesnt have to be an amazing reason, but just a reason.

[atomic mountain]

Yeah fair enough

I don’t want any perk to feel useless

[pallid lichen]

for example if dagger expert made dagger all deal +4 true damage. now were cooking. its not as OP in the early game since true damge wont scale with multipliers, and it makes the perk uniquly good with throwing knives at all levels of play. and would effectively give a little armor penetration at all levels of play. now its really good early game but not OP and high-level players still consider it.

[atomic mountain]

I agree that simply changing the application of the 5% would probably not be as good as just changing the scale on it or switching it to a flat number for a certain weapon or choice (like 1H wielded only)

[supple igloo]

.shortinfo 1639119

[eager sable]

Suggestion from Vormo#0432

[make the portals destructible if the player did enough damage to them]

Opinion:

-18

Suggestions Feed Post

[Suggestions Feed Post](#d-and-d-suggestions message)

Suggestion ID: 1639119 | Submitted at · Mar 4, 2023, 7:14 AM

[atomic mountain]

L

[supple igloo]

how is this guy still allowed to make suggestions

[atomic mountain]

[pallid lichen]

i might've upvoted that and then downvoted it after thinking about it. its an interesting idea for sure. But would need alot of game reworks to be remotely balanced.

[atomic mountain]

Imagine people just being toxic by destroying every portal they come accross(I’ll pass)

[supple igloo]

Bro. Even having a faint thought that this might be a good idea should be bannable xD

[atomic mountain]

Opening and closing I could discuss

[supple igloo]

Also this is the same guy that suggested that Rogue Pickpocket should be able to steal other players Skills.

Imagine Rogue beeing able to steal a wizzards ability to cast spells. So now he can only meditate.

[pallid lichen]

i mean it would depend. if you have to hit the portal 50 times for it to break, it wouldnt be super unbalanced. there are alot of variables that could be theortically combined to make this a possibility. definetly not worth the game developers effort right now though.

[atomic mountain]

Probably on purpose troll suggestions to see who can get the most downvotes. I’ve seen a few doing this

It’s odd because most of us are all interested in the game because it’s a masterpiece and we want to see it made better for as many people as possible , but it does give me a chuckle so there is that

[atomic mountain]

Yeah exactly some suggestions are like valid logically speaking but we also have to consider the timing. Making the game more complex isn’t necessarily going to add the depth that would increase its appeal and lifespan projection

[supple igloo]

nonono man this guy is srs.

.shortinfo 1638577

Look at him he posts stuff like this 24/7 and i doubt that he trolls.

[pallid lichen]

.shortinfo 1638577

[eager sable]

Suggestion from Vormo#0432

[when the player interact with any portal that portal has chance to be unstable and spawn powerful monsters or bosses from deeper levels of the dungeon, like in manhwas where low grade portal appear and then become unstable and keep spawning monsters to human world]

Opinion:

-36

Suggestions Feed Post

[Suggestions Feed Post](#d-and-d-suggestions message)

Suggestion ID: 1638577 | Submitted at · Mar 3, 2023, 11:02 PM

[supple igloo]

ty <3

[atomic mountain]

Hey just because you’re trolling doesn’t mean you’re doing it on purpose. None of us picked which race we were born as (homie was born a goblin)

[supple igloo]

.shortinfo 1638082

[eager sable]

Suggestion from Kotai-san#7376

can we remove all harry potter and jk rowling references from the game to make sure it is inclusive and not filled with hatred and bigotry?

Opinion:

-78

Suggestions Feed Post

[Suggestions Feed Post](#d-and-d-suggestions message)

Suggestion ID: 1638082 | Submitted at · Mar 3, 2023, 6:01 PM

[floral bison]

Hahahaha, I brought that up earlier, we were talking about Kotai.

[supple igloo]

this guy is obv trolling for example.

Like this is what a downvote bait looks like.

The other guy just thinks he has brilliant ideas but has no pla on how the game works/how that would impact it.

[pallid lichen]

maybe i have a soft spot for cinematic suggestions. its not a horrible idea, but would need ALOT of work to make it balanced, useful, and predictable.

suggestionslike that need to do abetter job selling the intresting scenarios that can be created with that change, and alot of explanation as to how it wont just be annoying and actaully adddepth to the game.

[atomic mountain]

One re-rolled a bridge troll, and one was born a dense rock troll

[floral bison]

Look, if I'm a big brolic barb boi, I should be able to cleave a tiny stone pillar in two with a swing.

[supple igloo]

I just hope devs ignore those types of suggestions and add the ones that are 100% no brainers that have 0 downside and would just make the game better. Like an offline training room with Trainingdummys so you can test your dmg with different gear and not have to join a game.

[atomic mountain]

Well even the ones that are highly uploaded might not necessarily be appropriate for the timing of the release schedule but are good ideas to bookmark. Based on the quality and interaction and feedback that they’ve given and have shown I have 100% faith that they will do a great job

[floral bison]

They really have, I would still be really interested to see an AMA or even just a rib down of suggestions they've really liked and their future ideals, just as content for interest.

[pallid lichen]

This studio is pretty damn transparent compared to most game studios

[atomic mountain]

It’s so refreshing, we’ve been in such a drought for a studio like this

[verbal marsh]

wdym don't you want a yard with a buildable house you can train and murder people in and take their gear?

[eager sable]

Please provide a valid suggestion ID.

Please provide a valid suggestion ID.

[buoyant glacier]

Hopefully my bot link actually works.
I just want to keep this relevant to make sure the devs catch wind of it. I don't want to go into launch having people able to clearly see the whole dungeon with minimal light. It runs completely contrary to the spirit of the game and a huge advantage that shouldn't be allowed.

.shortinfo 1639418

[eager sable]

Suggestion from StetsonForTheStern#9487

[Find a way to limit a players ability to brighten the Dungeon. It is too easy to almost completely circumvent or eliminate the effects of darkness through settings both in the game and outside of it. Take a hardline stance against players taking any steps to lessen the impact of darkness and make doing so a bannable offense. Here's a prime example of what can be done: https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/117dqyi/posting_a_ranger_clip_everyday_until_early_access/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button . This absolutely should not be possible and it gives a staggeringly large advantage while also running contrary to the spirit of the game. Many shots in that video were made and landed against people that should have been completely and utterly obscured by darkness.]

Opinion:

+10

Suggestions Feed Post

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Suggestion ID: 1639418 | Submitted at · Mar 4, 2023, 12:50 PM

[verbal marsh]

thats called nightvision, its not allowed. darklings be using it : | once exposed they can't see shit though. report them lol.

[turbid ermine]

Love the ranger streaming been salty about rogues running light mode

Let's hope it gets fair soon.

[pseudo mirage]

Perhaps we could add a little "fog" to darker areas that dissipates with torch fire and lantern or maybe reduce the visibility range of objects for players looking into dark areas. Hard to see things in the dark if they dont exist on screen yet.

[ocean quartz]

wait so is this a script they are running? The clip reference he used was in one of the only natural ambient lighted areas on the map, so with my screen brightness and contrast boosted, I probably could have gotten there too

[verbal marsh]

he has unnatural light sources lighting up lower pit but hard to tell with just that video. also depending on what test that video was recorded not every torch is lit when you enter a room like that either.

[ocean quartz]

ahh, didn't look down. Yeah that is too bright down there, at least for play test 3-4

[astral tartan]

give clerics crossbow

[ocean quartz]

why do you need a crossbow when you have an insane dmg nuke skill that also slows and isn't even a skillshot so you can't miss it 🤔

[astral tartan]

because its a 30 second CD 2.5m range. thats not poke

[lusty wren]

LOL

[verbal marsh]

clerics only weakness is their lack of range

[rough gorge]

well right now their are currently 2 paths of the cleric, Healer or drunk brawler, and you would be surprised how useful bind is when someone is running while your in drunk mode

[astral tartan]

i mean if theyre taking influence from DnD clerics not only can use crossbows but have ranged magic damage as well. i want a ranged dps option is all

[verbal marsh]

I do think they should add slings to game however, its an ancient weapon everyone used and even cleric should have access to.

[astral tartan]

bind is currently the best "aggressive" ranged ability in clerics arsenal

considering you need to be point blank for judgement

[rough gorge]

and most spells are pve over pvp for the cleric thus alot of anti undead, and support spells http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/spells:cleric most damage spells are mostly after the 6th level

[verbal marsh]

crossbow was 45+ dmg, +20 smite, +20 divine, +10 phy power, whos the real one shot boss now.

[summer notch]

if you mean me by "the other guy" i wasn't trolling except for (suggestion of making map full of insect) but the rest i was serious about them especially the slave class.
but okay if my suggestion don't fit the world of dark and darker i will gladly stop suggesting

[rough gorge]

smite is +10

[verbal marsh]

your will auto doubles that on principle -.- do math

[astral tartan]

was smite 20? i know divine was 10. whats the +10 phy power from. either way im not looking to 1 shot with it just some ranged poke like all other classes have. easy fix imo just tune down the smallest crossbow or add a wrist one.

[verbal marsh]

default 25 makes smite do +5, I always take in a small amount of will gear to push it over 20.

[rough gorge]

https://darkanddarker.wiki.spellsandguns.com/Cleric#Spells-0

[astral tartan]

so +10 and + 10*

[verbal marsh]

phy power is from drinking ale, so whatever your str bonus is atop of the weapon damage. not to mention the head damage as well.

[rough gorge]

and dont forget bless +3 to will str and agi

[atomic mountain]

Wizards can benefit from all those buffs except one, plus ignite. Didn’t see them ruining anyones day with a crossbow

[verbal marsh]

i dont bother mentioning that cause its part of my default power boost on smite doing 20.

[astral tartan]

i dont run brewmaster even as bonk build

[rough gorge]

to you default to others they may not know it is usually best to put all info for context then

[verbal marsh]

nah they should think for themselves.

[astral tartan]

bless is miniscule + damage increase. obviously benefits clerics more than any other class aside from an ignite wizard. that being said still nice to have.

[verbal marsh]

its equiv to saying +10 phy boost when green ale im using is +7...

[ocean quartz]

people need to stop wanting classes to all slowly blend together. It is good that every class feels different. You give rogues or clerics crossbows, or give invis to a ranger, or give etc to etc and suddenly every class is too similar. If you want a range option. Play a ranger.......

[verbal marsh]

cleric doesnt need a crossbow if he's doing the job he signed up for lol

[astral tartan]

or i can advocate that the class i play should be able to have 1 form of poke, since i want to mainly heal but still throw in an arrow here and there when we arent taking much pressure

[rough gorge]

bless benefits every class barb and
fighters get more str and agi, rouges get the agi str and will (poison dmg) , rangers str and agi , wiz agi and will

[verbal marsh]

i still think however, everyone should have access to a slingshot.

[astral tartan]

yes lol. but wizards/clerics benefit from the will/str/agi where as fighter gains little to nothing from will aside from buff duration

[atomic mountain]

Throwing knives. Take them from my Wizard, I don’t need them.

[astral tartan]

id be okay with some throwing knives. or a slingshot

[atomic mountain]

Well we have 2 upvotes to counter the masses lmao

[verbal marsh]

i love throwing knives on my wizzy, goes really well with magic missile.

[astral tartan]

gen pop players man smh

[atomic mountain]

Yeah I do too, but they’d help your healer out more

Just my op. Clerics are arguably a strong (maybe essential) part of a very effective 3 man squad.

And I wouldn’t want to see them shot over the moon, balance wise but

just give them butter knives. It’ll be fine.

[pallid lichen]

#d-and-d-suggestions message

Wish I could upvote this twice. Really good suggestion

[atomic mountain]

I like that. I had that thought too when I was reading 🙂

[pallid lichen]

I love suggestions that combine QOL with immersion

[verbal marsh]

Add chess to game and make leaderboards for chessmaster.

get rid of range nerf on healing light or make missing leave an aoe hot/dot

[astral tartan]

op is running around full buffed with a quarterstaff 1 shotting everything, which already happens and needs nerfed. atleast with cbow you have reload time and like you said, you arent healing. realistically you're getting 1-2 shots off in a fight

[verbal marsh]

they nerfed protection potions, its even 1 shot game now.

[astral tartan]

im not sure what you mean by this

[verbal marsh]

I cant ace a whole team under duration of that buff as easily anymore, and protection potions dont stack to bolster you acing a team who hits back.

[pallid lichen]

Why?

[astral tartan]

i still have no idea what you're trying to say lol.

[verbal marsh]

sadly noone reads the adventures of tom sawyer anymore huh

[atomic mountain]

And you’d also have to give up your shield and mace, can’t heal with a bow so you’d still need a book

[astral tartan]

true, no melee option. cleric op tho !!

[verbal marsh]

I dont see what you're trying to ask, so I guess you really dont matter hrm.

[atomic mountain]

It honestly wouldn’t change much but what do I know I’m just some HR hopeful

[astral tartan]

im just confused why you started talking about blue pots is all. or what 1v3ing has to do with anything

[verbal marsh]

and yet i still dont know what you're trying to ask, you really dont matter. nm..

[astral tartan]

then why answer my question

[atomic mountain]

[astral tartan]

did he throw out some random made up numbers tell me i dont matter and then leave when we disagreed?

boy wheres the clown emoji when u rly need it

crossbow rly takes wizards and fighters to an op level, game would be a lot more balanced if fighters and wizards didnt have crossbows at all!

[remote ruin]

yeah i think we need nerf fighter and buff barbarian

[atomic mountain]

Take away melee weapons for rangers while we’re at it

[astral tartan]

yeah god forbid a class has melee and ranged, smh that would be too op

[leaden tide]

No problem to me I dont use them anyways kek

[abstract swallow]

there is a correct way to argue this take and I want to see you use it

[atomic mountain]

Cleric is the only class that doesn’t have any throwable or ranged option.

And the ppl that don’t want them to have one either played solo, didn’t have a cleric in 3 man groups, or didn’t play cleric.

change my mind.

[slate tartan]

Judgement is ranged

[lusty wren]

Hmm, I disagree judge is for sure range

[remote ruin]

alright, we need to remove the ability to walk for fighter and nerf his perks

[leaden tide]

They already broken i think cleric is fine as is. Dont see how nerfing or bugfing them would be healthy they arent meant to be must haves in any 3v3

[astral tartan]

judge is 2.5m you're essentially in range of a 2her casting it. next

[atomic mountain]

Having ranged wouldn’t make them more or less essential lmao

[lusty wren]

2.5m is range 😄

[leaden tide]

Nope but they are already strong why give them even more versatolity

[lusty wren]

I can judge people that I cannot hit with my mace, this is ranged 😄

Cleric does not need a buff.

[atomic mountain]

Judgment is not a throwable or ranged option in the sense that a spear is not a ranged option and has reach. Reach is not ranged.

[astral tartan]

clerics broken if you're a struggling dps player. must haves or not any 3v3 based pvp game has support roles at high levels, whatever you wanna do with your friends in normals is fine and cool, but theres metas when it comes to performing at a high level.

oh proxy is upset

[lusty wren]

So they are already broken yet you want to give them a ranged option which effectively buffs them?
great logic

[atomic mountain]

Rangers were arguably the most consistently strong class across all metrics. Should we take away spear mastery?

[leaden tide]

No shot u dont think cleric aint broken. They been meta since forever

[astral tartan]

broken to you. to me the only people that complain a bout clerics are bad dps players like i said. to each their own, we all get an opinion.

[lusty wren]

I never said they are broken LOL you are attributing someone elses comments to me

[abstract swallow]

yes you should take away spear mastery, but just to punish poor/low skill players who don't run double bow, not for any balance or flavor reason

[atomic mountain]

They are a “makes sense to bring” part of any group. Doesn’t mean they’re OP

[slate tartan]

A decent cleric is very good but most people that play support aren't really gamers

[astral tartan]

you opened your argument with "so they are already broken yet"

[leaden tide]

All that would do is nerf the class for normal players but the core issue of their pve and pvp dominance in hr wouldnt change at all tbh so we would run into the wizard issue (although not as bad) where they suck in normals but are good in HR

[remote ruin]

remove bows for rangers

[lusty wren]

Yes quoting you

[remote ruin]

amputate rangers hands

[astral tartan]

? i said the bonk build already has 1 shot potential, deflecting from what this has to do with a crossbow

[atomic mountain]

So ok, sure. How would giving clerics throwable butter knives or a crossbow make them OP? Wizards are strong, for same reasons. They support and hold their own respective to their role. Was that because they had knives and a crossbow?

[astral tartan]

meta =/= broken. theres 6 classes 1 support.

[leaden tide]

Clerics are strong cuz buffs but nonetheless by giving them ranged ur removing one of their weaknesses

[lusty wren]

Wizards have strong buffs too

[astral tartan]

buddy whens the last time you said oh fuck this fighter has a crossbow hes so much more op from that of a normal melee fighter

[slate tartan]

Some people have no idea

[lusty wren]

Fighters with a crossbow are far scarier than a melee fighter 😄

[abstract swallow]

I'd argue that range is explicitly not one of Cleric's weaknesses, they have multiple tools to control distance AND shield proficiency
you'd probably be better off specifying "ranged damage"

[atomic mountain]

So by the same logic fighters shouldn’t have bows and should only have Francisca axes?

[verbal marsh]

nah damage is not the problem, it is the ranged.

[atomic mountain]

Every class, support, plate, melee, ranged, they all have something that can EITHER melee or throw or shoot arrows

Except Cleric.

Nobody says anyone is OP because of having the option to do one or the other. But rather how much dmg potential they have with one or the other.

[lusty wren]

cleric cant melee?

[verbal marsh]

if you've an all melee group and come across a range wizard party there isn't really anything you can do about them in an even battle your best bet is hoping to come up behind them and force them into ai.

[lusty wren]

I must be playing a different game.

[atomic mountain]

You’re not reading what I’m getting at because you’d rather sling mud

[slate tartan]

Don't clerics have bind or some shit?

[verbal marsh]

whos casting bind against a range party?

[lusty wren]

"they all have something that can melee or throw or shoot arrows Except Cleric. " unfortunately I did read this I am dumber for it

[astral tartan]

this would boil down to circumstances if anything, there are areas of the map where it favors the melee over range and vice versa

[atomic mountain]

Read it again

[slate tartan]

If you're trying to run them down anyone with half a brain, there's so many plays against a wizard it's not even funny

[lusty wren]

I have limited brain cells left i think its best to not 😄

[atomic mountain]

Clearly 🥴

[verbal marsh]

hence stated, force them into ai. You will not when they've clear haste adv along with range stagger your only option is circle luck.

[atomic mountain]

Im no language expert my guy, but I think it’s clear what I’m getting at lol

[lusty wren]

yes clerics need a melee option because they cant do that as you stated 😄

[astral tartan]

closing distance isn't impossible, again, depends on the area of the map. a melee team could just as easily zone the range team out of circle

[verbal marsh]

I mean I don't tend to stack melee heavy teams, but that is basically what happens when a melee stack teamed squares against a ranged one. My assertion is of me playing as every character class with highest level of skill play.

[astral tartan]

ive seen double ranged teams get ran down and cornered more often than not. maybe im not playing at as high of a level

[lusty wren]

Time to git gud 😄

[atomic mountain]

Every class has options to be able to do melee and Ranged damage.
With weapons or throwables.

Except Cleric.

Nobody says anyone is OP because of having the option to do one or the other. But rather how much dmg potential they have with one or the other.

There ya go, I rewrote it for you because you couldn’t read between the lines

[astral tartan]

yeah, world first rank 1 cleric not good enough gotta get world first rank .5 i guess

[verbal marsh]

having seen it doesnt mean they were evenly skilled players I mean would you play as poorly as the one run down lol

[lusty wren]

You mean because you couldnt type correctly to convey your opinion. Got it 😉 thanks for clarifying that you do think cleric can melee 😄

[atomic mountain]

That was never what I meant and you know that cutie 😘

[pallid sleet]

I've noticed people often times don't try to take any space against ranged comps, My buddy and I ran double wizard, and very often melees wouldrun away instead of towards us, makes no sense

[astral tartan]

no, im just saying even at a high level nothing is guaranteed in this game, classes counter each other to an extent but nothing is impossible to beat.

[atomic mountain]

Somebody has to feed the Money Gang

[lusty wren]

LOL I am cute arent I

[verbal marsh]

people who are here to talk about balancing are not here to talk about chance lol, its meta management.

[lusty wren]

I like that term. "meta management"

[pallid sleet]

WE LOVE CASTING S P E L L S

[atomic mountain]

Plz tell me how ranged and melee options have been a contentious issue when we’ve considered class balance

[astral tartan]

correct, and ranger/wizard wasn't exactly the meta. nor does it auto win every fight against melee.

[verbal marsh]

because people who don't understand damage values think some classes that tend to have 10-20 dps weapons should be given a 20-30 dps bow to stack their dots with. Or a 45 dmg bow to buffball themselves with so they can walk around and one shot, rather then add a balanced opinion about something like a slingshot being added so everyone can range stagger.

[atomic mountain]

Nobody has ever said that Barb’s shouldn’t HAVE Francisca axes at all

[lusty wren]

are you new here? People say this LOL

[atomic mountain]

Find me one

[astral tartan]

assuming the values stay the same. easy fixes imo.

[atomic mountain]

100% say Axe spec and utility swap speed / belt carry limit should be looked at. Not just “take them away”

[verbal marsh]

then perhaps add that to your suggestion rather then be pessimistic on a poorly drafted idea.

[lusty wren]

so your new here got it 😄

[atomic mountain]

You’re trolling and you’re not even funny (what a waste of potential)

[lusty wren]

True, your the funny one responding to someone you have blocked 😉

[astral tartan]

this is projection lol. you're being pessimistic about clerics having a ranged option 100%. i am voicing the changes i would like to see and just because you don't agree with it doesnt mean its a poor idea.

[atomic mountain]

I guess I’m silly for having hope you might try doing something different

[lusty wren]

Ya, probably a folly

[lusty wren]

What would the base dmg be on their ranged option?

[leaden tide]

Nope. Fighters main selling point is their versatility. They arent broken, they are balanced, they arent the best at range and they arent the best at melee. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Rangers are super strong at range and have clearly very good stats for both normals and HR. Removing spear proficiency to allow them to keep their main selling ooint of being ranged and being weak at close range could be a good idea like you suggested earlier.

Cleric is meta and gives insane buffs and is pretty much required for 3v3. Even for 1v1 and 1v2 its a strong class if u get enough time to self buff.

By giving them ranged options you are again, removing one of their weaknesses of lacking ranged damage and giving them another buff which goes against what is discusses for the ranger.

[verbal marsh]

oh no I'm just being cynical for kicks, I honestly don't care I'm just giving very straightforward blanket statements. don't mind me, nothing to see here, these are not the droids we're looking for.

[astral tartan]

im not sure, something more in line with the available buffs cleric has. make it do little to no damage for all i care, like i said im not trying to 1 shot. just pull mobs and maybe do 1/5th of an hp bar when i don't need to heal

[atomic mountain]

Fair points.

[lusty wren]

Ya, normally when I see this "everyone needs ranged" argument they want them using things already in the game like xbows etc. Which IMO would be too strong on them. But some other option with minimal dmg would be ok I think.

[abstract swallow]

I'd just give them a sling that does 30~46 a pop but required a windup.

[atomic mountain]

If a crossbow is such a stretch, would throwing knives really be all that bad?

[leaden tide]

Theres a couple more points tbh but im in a wedding so cant afford much time to write hahaha (im a degen i know for reading and writing here lmao)

[lusty wren]

Id rather see throwing crosses 😄 Or holy water bombs 😄

[atomic mountain]

Go drink and dance! Wedding are my favorite dude!

[harsh belfry]

I like the idea of a sling shot that does jack squat dmg but applies a small stagger on hit against un shielded players and a way to pull aggro on monsters

[astral tartan]

a cleric running crossbow/book would lack any form of melee, (a new weakness for gaining what you consider a buff ) you could run staff if you want but then you're sacrificing even more mobility at that point. giving them a ranged option doesnt have to be a buff if done properly, it just adds variation. crossbow reload time = no healing going out, no shields, nothing. just like now where you're forced to pick between doing damage with a melee weapon out, or healing with a book.

[atomic mountain]

Ok this is top tier funny and you have redeemed yourself

[lusty wren]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day 😄

[atomic mountain]

[verbal marsh]

yeah would make doing inferno a lot easier on some classes.

[lusty wren]

Does inferno need to be easier? Its already pretty easy once you learn the game

[astral tartan]

honestly the slingshot with a little stagger would be significantly more impactful than a new dinky little crossbow, i am fine with this.

[lusty wren]

Dogs for example are pushovers now they used to be scary.

[verbal marsh]

it is a cheese fest to beat the timer when you're alone and in a bad spot, I would rather it be a real non cheese clear.

[astral tartan]

why even run bind at that point if i can just dink em over and over and throw in a little CC

[lusty wren]

sure but ranged is what makes it cheese half the time. So giving other classes the ability to cheese it makes the situation worse not better

[abstract swallow]

the issue with inferno is that it requires a very specific skillset of PvE clear because of the ass map design + short timer + dishonest PvE
most normal parties that delve B3 do little more than clear one hallway and one room and just wait to leave

[atomic mountain]

They actually mentioned they really want to add slings or sling-shots. I’d imagine maybe one is a weapon one is utility?

[past pumice]

I had some really good ideas for the upcoming Bard class, but I can't fit everything in the character limit of the suggestion post. Where else can I share my idea without creating a wall of text in an on-going chat room?

[verbal marsh]

I could fight each of the ai individually with a pull, otherwise I just use ledges and strike down, or corner cheese.

[atomic mountain]

Just suggest one ability at a time

[lusty wren]

The more you shove in one suggestion the more likely people will take issue with one thing and downvote. Just break it up

[lusty wren]

Clerics already have great options for pve clear. They shouldnt need ranged to effectively clear inferno

[astral tartan]

if bard gets bow and a heal i'll say cya later to the cleric nerds anyways

[past pumice]

Well, I guess it counted my failed attempt last time I tried to post it all at once, so I gotta wait four hours. But I'll make sure to post it at some point today.

[verbal marsh]

ai density in some starting areas are so high you're forced to know exactly where the cheese spot is or know how to run and jump into it...

[lusty wren]

Density is good for clerics 😄

[astral tartan]

fair, but only if you set up for it. if you build for pvp the pve very quickly goes downhill

[atomic mountain]

Class Traitor! You’d be nothing without the bald spot!

[lusty wren]

We are talking about wanting to clear inferno, if you want to do this you should prepare to do so.

[astral tartan]

you'd be surprised how often you're forced down there in high roller because of a lack of blue portals.

[past pumice]

Idk why you'd be going in Inferno solo as a class which suffers alone anyways, seems like a bad idea to me considering the higher density of large parties and dangerous monsters down there. If you're forced to escape through a red portal, like... that sucks? But that doesn't mean the difficulty should change

[lusty wren]

I dont think id be surprised. Ive got a stupid amount of hours. But ya we went there every raid we possibly could. Blue portals are for cowards 😄

[verbal marsh]

I solo all content, its just darksouls ez. PvP is only more difficult due to unkown values and ally panic lol.

[astral tartan]

i like blue portals. means the lobbies wiped and i can gg go next without being forced to pve

[lusty wren]

Id rather they incentivize people to go to inferno so its funner and less pve 😄

[astral tartan]

true, fights down there were intense af every single time ( when they happened )

[atomic mountain]

It all depends on your bag value and resources on hand

[lusty wren]

Or combine raids of people going down. Or something. Sucks that its such a snooze fest down there.

[past pumice]

Well, Inferno's really the only place to get purple tier loot on normals consistently, isn't it?

[abstract swallow]

honestly I just avoided PvP in inferno 100% of the time because it always ended with being stuck in the zone trying to loot the few bodies that didn't fall into a pit/mob train

[astral tartan]

i believe this is the gameplan. cannot confirm.

[atomic mountain]

Maybe a hell paid gate? Like HR is

[verbal marsh]

I just murder people as they're opening portal for me. Fun to sneak down and do Infernal as a solo rogue.

[lusty wren]

This sounds counter productive

[leaden tide]

Thats what devs are gonna do confirmed yes

[lusty wren]

Do you have a source? I have not heard this but hope you are right

[atomic mountain]

I mean, if ya want more fights down there, you have to find a way to get more people down there
What @leaden tide said is also another way

[lusty wren]

yes but charging them more is not going to do that. People already dont go down how would charging them more to go there help?

[past pumice]

The current Forgotten Castle level 1 is going to eventually be Level 2 once EA comes out as well, I've heard

[atomic mountain]

Im just thinking shiiit

[astral tartan]

idt the price of highroller will matter too much once the games out for longer than a week

[lusty wren]

LOL i got you. Id like to see some of the quests tied to it. And maybe even another bump up in loot tables

[atomic mountain]

Your owner need to feed you cus you Hangry!

[lusty wren]

She is shopping now! I am pretty hangry

[astral tartan]

are we all in favor consumables/traders shouldn't be gated behind quest progression? ( why i quit tarkov )

[past pumice]

I'd imagine the entry price will be raised once the game reaches EA

[lusty wren]

I wouldnt mind seeing some trader progression. But basic things no. And I dont think that progression should be 100%. For example you could unlock the potential for a trader to carry an extra stack of health pots or something I dunno. Or a possibility the trader has a book more often etc

[verbal marsh]

I think gathering hub should disable leaderboard standing gains, make the struggle real for leaderboard challengers. Would make the reset take longer to get re-geared and potentially be precursor for any sort of seasonal style play updates.

[past pumice]

It would be awesome to see a private lobby tavern in the future where you can talk to the various shopkeepers, and they give you the quests with actual voiced dialogue that your party can listen into. Would make the quests seem less like chores (like they are in Tarkov) and more like exciting adventures parties get to go on.

[lusty wren]

I think tarkov quests are poorly designed also. They are just not fun to do (Other than the random one here and there)

[past pumice]

Outpost... Ohh goood...

[atomic mountain]

Eh, I want depth but I don’t want too many things detracting from my time spent in dungeon. As long as the quests are rewarding, yet not high priority or require me to load into a different area n all that, bring it

[verbal marsh]

Like vendor rerolls 👍

[lusty wren]

as in refreshing their wares?

[astral tartan]

i think daily/weekly/seasonal quests on rotation would be very good. the same quests every season gets stale literally the 2nd time around.

[verbal marsh]

yeah

[lusty wren]

Ya, I could get behind this also for trader progression

[astral tartan]

quests are just so much more enjoyable when you do them at your leisure while playing the game. knowing you're forced to do a quest to unlock X to have an advantage in pvp is 2008

more rewarding and less of a chore when you get money, xp, or bonus gear as a reward. instead of unlocking something that gives you an advantage over others

[lusty wren]

but does bonus gear not give an advantage?
Id prefer to stay away from gear rewards personally

[astral tartan]

arguably yes, but its a 1 time reward as opposed to now you can buy T2 meds and others cant

[verbal marsh]

I hope they add rope, there is so many applications for it as an item.

[past pumice]

So I got impatient with the #1048762118255673428 post. If you guys want to take a look at my suggestion for the Bard class, you can see it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/11i4iby/class_suggestion_bard/

Let me know your thoughts.

[lusty wren]

Ya I do not think that example is good.

Id hate if you could progress your vendor to be able to sell higher end heals. Maybe an added stack but not straight better heals.

But i can see quests feeling mandatory if they have good gear attached

[astral tartan]

agreed. glad you understood what im saying even with the poor example though. some rewards have potential to significantly outweigh others and i just hope theyre careful with it.

[lusty wren]

ya I do agree

[verbal marsh]

if ai were advanced would be cool if they could progress vendors to learn your preferences

[astral tartan]

i wanna see the numbers on how many ppl bought a wizard staff from the alchemist compared to spell books

[lusty wren]

LOL people bought staffs?

[atomic mountain]

-100%

[astral tartan]

doubt it lol

[verbal marsh]

I do sometimes as a wizard because they're good for barrels.

[cold condor]

you're better off using your fists against mobs, though

[verbal marsh]

you know how much good lewt are in barrels?

[lusty wren]

Ya lol, there are a few noob traps id like to diminish if possible tbh staff in the vendors is one of them HAHA

[spiral spindle]

Sounds like it would take a long ass time to get all the quests before a raid.. not sure if like

[lusty wren]

Or maybe quests specific to maps, and you get them given to you upon entering the raid. In some form of RNG attached

I like this idea, but may be hard to implement well

[cold condor]

yeah, it's real shame that magic staff is that much ass. it's iconic wizard weapon, after all

[spiral spindle]

Oh yea that could be dope, was more about the voice lines, I dont need to hear a bed time story for every quest if you get what I mean

[past pumice]

You could just spam the spacebar or something to skip all the dialogue lol

[astral tartan]

never been a staff user in all my years of wizarding, spellsword, book, dagger all too cool

[verbal marsh]

Its okay you can leave me all the barrels, I'll spank that

[lusty wren]

Do you play strictly solo?

[spiral spindle]

Yea fair point, that's how it is with every game... barbbrain moment

[verbal marsh]

I pug a lot, but that may as well be solo.

[lusty wren]

Ya, was just curious cus in my teams we just split loot differently when one cant break barrels. They get more chests etc

[astral tartan]

world first rank 1 cleric and top 10 every test since AMA

[verbal marsh]

I didn't enable gathering hub this playtest at all, so I just gave away whatever wasnt for me.

[astral tartan]

good question, yes i would love to see crossbow added

[lusty wren]

This was great, needed a laugh 😄

[atomic mountain]

Might be considered a nerf if they’re too busy role playing as rangers they won’t be healing lmao

[astral tartan]

think of all the funny stuff too, healing your teammate to full only to accidently tap him in the back of the head

[cold condor]

aren't crossbows banned by the church ?

[past pumice]

They're not if you're Scottish!

[atomic mountain]

POV Of every DPS ever
“Heal me!”
Cleric be like
“I can’t I’m doing damage to help you!”

[verbal marsh]

as a cleric, I would rather receive a sword then a crossbow.

[astral tartan]

rapier would be sick. fancy boi cleric

[atomic mountain]

Finesse Friar Tuck

[astral tartan]

in high level 3v3s i dont even attempt to do damage until the fights over and we're cleaning up the 1v3.

[verbal marsh]

heres me Buffballs self, you guys ready?

[astral tartan]

lmao

[past pumice]

Gets a triple kill with Judgment

[astral tartan]

i may or may not be the reason judgement was nerfed. we'll never know until i leak dms

[verbal marsh]

runs in with a qstaff and light build one shotting entire team eh, they don't got jack...

[past pumice]

Having been a top 10 cleric most playtests, how do you think the class is faring thus far? Are there any changes you'd make?

[verbal marsh]

Smite should do double damage to undead would be a change I'd make. its a bit underwelming pve, oh and holy light should leave a 50% field effect should it not strike a target it strikes the first to walk into it. even better, just halve the direct and field and make it so the player needs to walk back into it to receive full effect. would explain why light heals is less powerful as well.

[astral tartan]

i think its in a good spot, i obviously disagree with the people who think its overpowered just because its strong in a 3v3 setting, as more support classes are added triple dps will become even less common which is understandable given support is an essential role in most pvp games across all genres. that being said i think in this game specifically triple dps has a better chance of success than say competitive wow arenas. i would 100% look at quarterstaff, it can use a little tweaking; way too much move speed for the damage output, i was 1 tapping with it. Also they should nerf divine from 10 to 5 weapon damage.

10 weapon damage on a fast hitting weapon like horseman axe ( meta barb wep last test ) adds roughly 33% increased damage without any modifiers and will only go up. insane

[past yew]

Cleric + Barb was an amazing rag comp, I can only imagine how good it was in high roller

[lusty wren]

My favorite comp was playing lightning rod barb. Just cus it was hilarious

[verbal marsh]

there were a lot more items focused toward raising phy values due to str being a 5 for every other class I believe minor balance issues that were in this playtest will be easily adjusted

[astral tartan]

conduit tech was used at high level play, funny af

[lusty wren]

Ya it was great

[astral tartan]

this would be another fix as well yeah. too much +phys in the game atm

id also like to see some form of offensive buff dispel like a purge. i think that would bring wizards more in line overall but obviously makes cleric that much more essential. also some type of magic absorb potion would help balance wizards.

[pallid lichen]

never played cleric but what do you think about lowereing the time on divine rather then nerfing damage?

[atomic mountain]

Yeah not as much -dmg rolls (or resistance) values on gear. Maybe that’s just because there are more stats and rolls overall that can increase dmg but not many to reduce

[lusty wren]

I would like to see defensive gear scale a bit better

[astral tartan]

possibly but they would have to lower the spell count with it as you can currently spam it 5 times. which is 40 seconds total for both dps and 20 seconds for yourself.

[glacial sphinx]

just tone down added damage instead so pve doesnt become trivial because everyone has massive damage reduction

[pallid lichen]

i see. maybe a damage nerf is easier then.

[lusty wren]

PVE is trivial in starter gear once you learn mechanics

[glacial sphinx]

if thats your position then why make it easier? btw I think its not true people die to pve all the time and im pretty sure you have as well

[lusty wren]

Id like high end vs high end TTK to be more similar to starter vs starter.

[verbal marsh]

bless, protection, divine, beer, weapon swap, smite - that is - 1.5+1+2+1+.5 6 seconds you wasted just getting ready, and 6 seconds you had to stop me from becoming a problem.

[glacial sphinx]

you can do that by nerfing added damage

[lusty wren]

yes before I learned the mechanics. PVE is not hard in this game in any shape and or form once you have a bit of experience under your belt

[astral tartan]

agree, ttk when everyones geared is just 1 shot fiesta

[pallid lichen]

you guys out here doing an eldenring buffing ritual

[verbal marsh]

that is buff ball, you've 6 seconds before cleric becomes a problem. and he only has 15 to deal with you, oh and i forgot protection pot, healing pot chug you can do in addition losing another 5 seconds but gaining the ability to withstand several blows.

[astral tartan]

^ hes right, and then roughly a 10-15 second window where they'll fuck you up. trick is just kiting, most clerics will continue to engage even when buffs run out

[pallid lichen]

i like the vibe of cleric. they really nailed the feeling of a faith worrior in this game

im sticking to rogue. i been an edgy rogue in every rpg ive ever played.

[astral tartan]

a scary cleric is one that controls the flow of a fight and is able to reset and rebuff/heal themselves. thats the cleric that will 1v3 your whole team if you give him the chance

[pallid lichen]

is solo cleric a thing?

[astral tartan]

very much so yes

[pallid lichen]

they gotta be like the worst solo class next to like fighter or something

[atomic mountain]

Nah they nice

[verbal marsh]

everything cleric can do to himself, just remember he does it even better to a dps teammate.

[glacial sphinx]

I think they're very decent in combat but they lack the speed moving through the level vs say barb or rogue. They can clear pve amazingly well though

[astral tartan]

nah a good cleric will run through lobbies with a bonk build. they're less forgiving in the sense if you get jumped before you pre buff you're at a major disadvantage, but you can trade with anyone full buffed for those 15 seconds.

[verbal marsh]

with how short window is on buff ball, you basically get shrine, stand before cleric then are blasted off by a wizard in high roller... aka: barb meta no fun

[astral tartan]

also with how dog shit armor is in this game until you reach a certain threshold i much prefer movement speed cleric builds over tank

[pallid lichen]

but they have no real utility. theyre slow as hell. like sure they can 1v1 but honeslty how does a cleric consistently wipe squads?

[glacial sphinx]

very strong mace hits and judgment

[lusty wren]

You outplay them just how most classes have to do it 😄

[pallid lichen]

i feel like rogues or wizards have more tools to outplay in 1v3s

[lusty wren]

You think rogues have a better shot to 1v3 than cleric?

[atomic mountain]

Doubt

[pallid lichen]

never played a cleric. but intuitively i do.

[astral tartan]

most of the 1v3 clips i have are pretty drawn out compared to other classes, sure it happens where you catch a group offguard and get a quick 1v3 but more often than not its about the resets. the utility comes from all the self healing and absorbs.

[lusty wren]

If a team of 3 gets wiped by a rogue they should feel bad lol

[verbal marsh]

I think ale needs a 5 second window before the confusion effect takes place. its a bit unfair to non clerics and should have a strength influence, also thought it was suppose to induce rage. Feel like rather then go over 7 stronger ales should raise impact value so you can destroy doors.

[pallid lichen]

thats a good point. time is kind of on their side. but if the other team has a cleric???

[atomic mountain]

You should branch out a little next PT, I enjoyed playing all the classes to 20 but got my main ones I enjoy

[devout cosmos]

1.5 month wait for 1 week playtest

[astral tartan]

cut the head off the snake. cleric or wizard should be kill prio no matter what class you're playing.

[pallid lichen]

honestly i totally should, but i realistically won't. im a sucker for stealth.

[atomic mountain]

Makes you better too. Know the enemy, know their weaknesses

[lusty wren]

ya playing every class really helps understand the game

[atomic mountain]

Invisibility potions were so underused. They are so strong, if ya still want stealth use those 🙂

[pallid lichen]

thats a good point. but i feel like as rogue or wizards you have th tools to actaully get a sly kill on their cleric. how do you even target a cleric thats beign defended as a cleric/melee class.

[lusty wren]

You missed the convo in here where people were saying you could hear them 4 modules away 😄

[atomic mountain]

Like 4 tiles? Yeah ok 😅

[lusty wren]

ya quote was something like "Invis pots are useless anyone within 4 modules hears you drink"

[pallid lichen]

i did alot of research on enemy skills perk and stuff to try to make up for my ignorance.

[atomic mountain]

I’d hear a prot pot from further away than invis
@pallid lichen yeah same I watched YT a month before the PT

[astral tartan]

i see what you're saying. best way i can explain it is where they have tools to secure the kills quicker, we have tools to survive longer. that wizard can't stay on the offensive if he gets tapped by a ranger for 75% of his hp off the rip where as i would just LOS and instantly heal to full and keep pushing. not every 1v3 is winnable for any class.

[verbal marsh]

what do you guys think of impact value rare ale rather then 9 str. it be +5 with +1 impact, then next go to 7.

[pallid lichen]

yeah thats true. but now i see your point about how durable clerics are and how they can leverage that. but its true, not every 1v3 is winnable.

[atomic mountain]

You keep teaching him and he’s going to be killing you on his cross class Clerogue next PT

[verbal marsh]

only useful for rogues running away to refresh their ambush perk before turning

[astral tartan]

honestly, ive had the numbers thrown in my face on how ale is better by multiple respectable clerics, there is no argument. but after i was 1 tapping without it i stopped running brewmaster entirely, already takes sooooo long to buff up.

[lusty wren]

Ya i dunno, I had great luck utilizing invis pots for a myriad of situations.

[verbal marsh]

its a large hp buffer, ale + 2 protections allows you to take multiple barbarian hits and fight toe to toe even without all your damage perks casted.

[pallid lichen]

naaaa. invis pots are so underrated.

[astral tartan]

yup, i refuse to argue i know its better. im just lazy lol

ocd with my potion hotbars too

[verbal marsh]

have taken several hits from fighters and didn't even break my hp bar before as well.

[astral tartan]

is str 1:1 hp gain?

[verbal marsh]

think its 2

[thorn ivy]

it's 2 yeah

[lusty wren]

https://darkanddarker.wiki.spellsandguns.com/Stats#Strength it depends

[astral tartan]

i mean at that rate its essentially a blue pot +20 hp

[lusty wren]

0 to 10 is 3, 10-50 is 2

[verbal marsh]

yeah, and your potion benefit from your increased will unless I'm wrong, at least your spell does.

[astral tartan]

yeah i am no expert bonker im a lowly support cleric

[verbal marsh]

I think it does, else wizard would get one shot even with it lol

[lusty wren]

Buff duration is increased with will

[verbal marsh]

spell power is toward all things magic related.

just like wizard sword gets more dmg from your will power, but seems most people still dont like that weapon even with all the weapon buffs toward phy + magic combo lol