I dont really like the idea of paladin just being a cleric playstyle, it's unique enough to be its own class tbh
#suggestion-discussion
wise vine
twin delta
like they get minor heal and zap, maybe a couple of unique spells too
rugged pilot
I want race-based things personally
sweet bramble
I still think we shouldn't add classes per say, just give the current classes, sub-classes in the perk tree to work towards
twin delta
uh... not really
rugged pilot
would love to get given monsters / entities to play as
tepid spoke
well hopefully with the level-up system something like that will happen
rugged pilot
Spectre or something
tepid spoke
oh god please no skins you can get with money
twin delta
dark and darker's ranger is a compromise between ranger and rogue though
tepid spoke
i don't want to see a god damn wraith doing emotes on me after i die
wise vine
ranger is rogue/fighter and dabbles in druid magic
Ranger doesn't have any of the things that are iconic to rogue in most iterations
sweet bramble
Idk if you guys ever read the ranger book series, but he does not use magic.
wise vine
But it does share a lot with fighter
rugged pilot
Love to run through the dungeon as Bugbear bonking people
grabbing them and dragging people
twin delta
lightweight, dexterity focus, and good with recon/scouting
that's the main stipulation of rogue
sweet bramble
I was thinking more, the fighter sub classes are gladiator and knight. While cleric is monk, or paladin
twin delta
the main identity of rogue is backstab, daggers, ambushes, etc
tepid spoke
yep
rugged pilot
Rogues identity is indirect fighting
sweet bramble
Rouge can be between theif, and assassin,
twin delta
also being a general little shit, picking locks, picking fights, picking noses
rugged pilot
Wherever you don't want him to be is where he is
rugged pilot
Personally I wanna see an alchemist or bomber
upper plover
Would a stash that is shared between your characters be a good idea? That would make levelling alts easy
twin delta
also i have played as a ghost in dark and darker
tepid spoke
can i have a goblin race as a rogue?
rugged pilot
Tossing bombs and potions at people
wise vine
Element of surprise is how I've always seen rogue, being less impactful in a fair fight but having the advantage before the brawl begins
twin delta
it's similar to rat rogue but you douse all the torches while stalking someone
rugged pilot
can i have a goblin race as a rogue?
we spent a whole day talking about these yesterday
twin delta
not to kill 'em, just to make 'em paranoid
tepid spoke
:)
rugged pilot
We wanted a Dwarf race that heals when drinking ale
sweet bramble
I don't think a stash shared between characters is a great idea, but I do understand how some people would find it important to them
twin delta
also having the smokebomb skill so there's a cloud of smoke just slowly moving towards them
it'd be nice for solo sessions
tepid spoke
i've seen the smokebomb skill used once, and it literally sucks
tepid spoke
maybe if the smokebomb doused fire effects it would be nice
sweet bramble
Why can't other classes just buy a smoke bomb btw?
rugged pilot
fire effects and torches
twin delta
it blocks line of sight, ignores lighting, and people get slowed when they walk through it
rugged pilot
Why can't other classes just buy a smoke bomb btw?
no bombs yet
twin delta
you can use it at a chokepoint and they now have to guess which hallway you're in
sweet bramble
Also y'all talking about ideas that the thief games use.
rugged pilot
I would love a blackpowder bomb you light and toss like Vermintide
but it bounces around and blows up
sweet bramble
no bombs yet
Tell that to the Molotov...
late gate
Are there any mods on?
twin delta
if you got stealth then they shoot and swing blindly
rugged pilot
Tell that to the Molotov...
Its so bad I forgot it exists
sweet bramble
Imagine if rangers got water arrows to douse candles.
tepid spoke
Molotov? you mean Lantern?
sweet bramble
Wait that's just thief again..
rugged pilot
Imagine if rangers got water arrows to douse candles.
I sleep on this
rugged pilot
Molotov? you mean Lantern?
naw there is a firebottle
twin delta
@late gate #1056520745330675763 for hackers, and #report-a-bug for glitches
sweet bramble
Latern and Molotov both have fire
twin delta
let's be real
twin delta
if we had an item that was a water-padded arrow to douse torches and flames
that'd be sick
late gate
I mean for the Discord, @twin delta . One of my suggestions was flagged and I can't fathom why.
rugged pilot
maybe as a trait for ranger or rogue
why do people want this
why does a ranger want to make it dark where the enemy is
twin delta
mindgames imo
late gate
I can only imagine it's because I said, "Thank you for coming to my TED Talk" at the end of it, which is kinda sorta silly.
tepid spoke
maybe for rogue, not for ranger
twin delta
or while you're running through a hallway you shoot a sconce ahead of you to douse it
so your chasing enemy can't aim at you clearly
rugged pilot
why can you not just turn it off manually
tepid spoke
like a jar of water you can throw
rugged pilot
Seems pointless to me tbh
twin delta
it takes longer than opening a door, and the range is limited
rugged pilot
if you are being chased you aren't holding a bow and shooting it
you are running from the hasted barb
twin delta
in the ideal situation you are correct
rugged pilot
Seems like a cool idea but useless
twin delta
and this isn't just barbs
rugged pilot
hasted fighter with sprint go brrrrrr
twin delta
been seeing a lot of ranger/cleric/wizard teams today
tepid spoke
yeah
twin delta
it's just barb but at range
tepid spoke
or fighter/cleric/wizard
rugged pilot
Fighter + sprint + haste + ale
kek gg
very funny combo for running wizards or rangers
twin delta
yep
rugged pilot
twin delta
only drops to 25 on limb though
rugged pilot
2 shot rogue punch
tepid spoke
lol
sweet bramble
It's so painful not even tenor has theif gifs
rugged pilot
tepid spoke
lol
twin delta
let's be honest
forest briar
when do they plan to add reviews back on the steam page
twin delta
thief series hasn't been that popular to play
watch and talk about? hell yeah. play? pretty awful
sweet bramble
It hurts, because no streamers these days have even heard it
And I really loved the series, I actually went back to play theif 3 and it was amazing
tepid spoke
i played cleric but hated how slow they were, so i switched to rogue and now i enjoy killing people :)
twin delta
bless gives you a 6% movespeed from the +3 agility part
rugged pilot
Opponent running, must not register on an emotional level
sheathe weapon
get hasted
press sprint
the enemy is winded, and scared for their life
drink ale
d i s c o m b o b u l a t e
twin delta
pair yourself with some boots and you'll catch rogues
sweet bramble
It has some of the most amazing mechanic that dark and darker polishes really well
rugged pilot
I like fighter the most, I love just having access to every single thing I find
twin delta
heh, discombobulate
sweet bramble
In before barbarian gets discombobulate ability
tepid spoke
i actually like how rogue can't parry or block
rugged pilot
When I run longsword + crossbow and meet a spammy ranger and he's loving life, then I put on a heater + rapier I have in my pocket and this dude is like:
thats illegal
tepid spoke
it makes you NEED to play your movement well
twin delta
i'd prefer having a shitty block like buckler
as a parry
can't hold it up, doesn't block much
rugged pilot
I would love like a 2m teleport for Rogue
sweet bramble
To this day I still don't know the purpose of the buckler
rugged pilot
Never add it but man, it'd be funny
rugged pilot
To this day I still don't know the purpose of the buckler
You can block AI arrows that always go for your head
and AI melee once you now the pattern
sweet bramble
I can block those with a long sword
rugged pilot
Cleric doesn't get access to longsword
sweet bramble
Cleric does get access to the better round shield tho..
rugged pilot
Not on starter
and it can save your life in default rooms when your ranger sucks with their starter bow
and your barb is busy barbing 10 barrels in the spawn room
sweet bramble
I suppose so
rugged pilot
I think its supposed to encourage you to engage in melee
but not more than fighter who has bigger shield default
twin delta
stealth and 10 steps is a slow 3m teleport if you think about it
rugged pilot
stealth and 10 steps is a slow 3m teleport if you think about it
yeah but imagine you see a barb prep his overhead
and you just tele behind him
"hello there"
sweet delta
Os there any plan on changing the trading mechanic? Needing to stay spaming on a full overcrowded chat is kinda weird
rugged pilot
Os there any plan on changing the trading mechanic? Needing to stay spaming on a...
yes
Its a placeholder on a playtest, we are lucky to even have it
twin delta
yeah
sweet delta
God bless
twin delta
the most you can do is filter what you want on the drop-down
sweet delta
Uhum
twin delta
clears out the spam posting and bot advertisements
sweet delta
Just wondering of it was how it is suposed to be or not, felt like in year 2000
twin delta
if you just wait for a few minutes you can send a trade request and lowball them for 15~50 depending on rarity
it's just like market
sweet bramble
I miss 2000s trading
rugged pilot
I just waited for like 4 minutes and saw somebody selling 4 sets of axes for 100g total
instead of one set for 100g
sweet bramble
Honestly I wouldn't mind a auction market and a private trading area
rugged pilot
let me get on VOIP and trade, instead of the chatbox
mothers get very confident on a chatbox
sweet bramble
Auction market for people to take their gamble and bid on items while other players can privately over charge others
twin delta
ye
rugged pilot
I would love to have like, tavern auctions
you go and voip-shout your vote with an actual auctioneer
Storage Hunter style
sweet bramble
That would suck for people who have time zones and can only play at night
rugged pilot
Yeah, true
sweet bramble
Just have the item set for auction for like 1,3,5 days. And let people come in and check for them
5 days would be for people selling legendary equipment most likely
twin delta
can also do other options
standing offers where you place an item on holding for a few hours and whoever pays the funds buys it ouright
sweet bramble
At yes, the 99999 standing offwr
twin delta
that's done so it doesn't take up inventory space
a voip auction house lobby in a tavern would be great actually
twin delta
yep
rugged pilot
I coulda left minutes ago but stayed for the pvp
twin delta
it's the worst when you're mid-portal opening too
sweet bramble
Don't fuck around with the timer
rugged pilot
Yeah I forgot it existed
I opened a portal, inventory full of loot and just left it to go fight
cant take it with me after playtest
rugged pilot
I've not survived it but I watched my teamate stand in the spawn room till he saw a blue and get it
I was doing fine in there as Cleric, killing the dogs and stuff untill my own Wizard sent me the shadow realm with 2 fireballs
sweet bramble
I want a special zone called the shadow realm, is a place where all previous deaths of players were and they just roam around with the gear and items they died with
distant glacier
for the love of all that is holy, fix the utility belt being so clunky and buggy and swapping past the item you want. it is so infuriating
twin delta
so the swapping past the item is a bug
only visual
the rubberbanding where you're not allowed to swap out of an item though is awful
dense raven
What do you guys think about a perk for rogue that allows them to see roughly how much hp someone has while they are in stealth and the target is quite close (Protection pots/spell would protect you from him seeing your health estimate) maybe at a 25% rate the indicator changes color or something
late gate
What do you guys think about a perk for rogue that allows them to see roughly ho...
It wouldn't really be worth taking if their was such an easy way to nullify it, so the perk wouldn't be used much if that were the case.
Least, in my opinion... By itself, it's an interesting idea...just not sure anyone would pick it over something else if it was thwarted that easily.
rugged pilot
I want a special zone called the shadow realm, is a place where all previous dea...
lmao
rugged pilot
What do you guys think about a perk for rogue that allows them to see roughly ho...
Good idea but useless I reckon
I can't think of a way to suggest that or phrase that without it being an ugly indicator on the screen
Footsteps of injured players?
But that kinda just copies ranger perk but worse
Like bloody footprints that last longer than rangers 'recent footstep' tracking
sweet bramble
I mean if you're having trouble looking for hiding people, just put your volume louder.
People's feet are so freaking loud
rugged pilot
naw but not for hiding
you know specifically that the guy that went this way is low
below 50% is bloody footprint rogue tracking
late gate
I can't think of a way to suggest that or phrase that without it being an ugly i...
As a form of sight, it could simply be a red shadowy plume radiating off their body...making it some sort of slightly magical sense, but as of now...Rogues don't really have any magic in this game. Still, it's not outside the realm of possibility.
rugged pilot
besides going invisible like a chameleon lmao
late gate
If I were designing it, I'd make it a permanent form of stealth...but you could ONLY see people under a certain health percentage while using it. So...when you unstealth, you have no idea what you're dealing with, player or NPC, unless its health was low while stealthed.
That would be interesting...
twin delta
i'd rather it be something like they have a similar visual debuff to bleed
late gate
...but I'm heavily biased towards long-term stealth, so my mind is...well...I really like being cloaked for longer periods of time than this game allows. 😛
rugged pilot
[procedural weapons that can be found in game or bought in shop, eg: different heads for maces of blades for swords] @burnt socket great suggestion but I don't think its good for the the current state of the game
This is a fluff thing that could be added way later in development
rugged pilot
...but I'm heavily biased towards long-term stealth, so my mind is...well...I re...
I'd enjoy a stealth-sip perk for rogue
twin delta
yo that reminds me of uh... i think vermintide 2 did a thing
rugged pilot
he can drink without slurping like they are dehydrated
twin delta
where if you picked up a weapon you could turn it into a cosmetic skin
transmog is the usual name for it
rugged pilot
I like the idea but absolutely not, because weapon identification is huge
burnt socket
[procedural weapons that can be found in game or bought in shop, eg: different h...
yeah i know, but i thought id suggest it anyway
twin delta
there's other types of morningstar heads
fresh depot
I recommend a queue where you can't bring anything in and everyone has to play base characters. It would help a ton with people dying to kitted players when trying to build a stash. Would also be the only balanced playlist
twin delta
so long as the general silhouette is intact it'll read fine
rugged pilot
I recommend a queue where you can't bring anything in and everyone has to play b...
Also a good idea but I think again its a late in development thing
late gate
I have nothing to drink in this house, so anything sip related is making me remember I'm dying of dehydration.
rugged pilot
IMO nobody should be sipping that loudly in game
twin delta
agreed
rugged pilot
There is no reason I need to hear somebody sipping through 3 stone castle walls
or above me on goblin cave
burnt socket
there's other types of morningstar heads
no, i think theyre separate weapons arent they? "Mace" and "Morning Star"
rugged pilot
Flanged mace and morningstar
rugged pilot
You could get different styles of each though, but its definetely a fluff feature
burnt socket
yes, fluff is nice
rugged pilot
Yeah, modular weapons would be sweet as hell
twin delta
no no
so you can have a morning star with thin spikes, fat spikes, flared spikes, hooks, nails, etc
rugged pilot
Let me deck out my basic flanged mace with a bad termite eaten wood or some glossy swamp oak
twin delta
you could have a baseball bat with nails in it be a morning star
wouldn't be fitting but it'd be functionally the same
rugged pilot
Nah I'm against skins, but slight differences is fine
Like Red Dead 2 gun customisation
Its still the same weapon, just different fittings and grip
rugged pilot
It should still directly look like a morning star, a wooden stick with spiked ball on the end
late gate
I still want kasurigama for rogues. I will die on this hill. Two handed weapon. The chained weight with the right mouse, the kama with the left...a much more tactical weapon with a wee-bit more range in the form of the chained weight...could be so much fun for rogues that want something a little different.
rugged pilot
I still want kasurigama for rogues. I will die on this hill. Two handed weapon. ...
I say no to weeb items
burnt socket
hahaha
rugged pilot
there is enough of that in gaming
burnt socket
i personally dont mind it as long as weeb items arent the ONLY thing in a game, but yeah
rugged pilot
it bothers me that every game has to have weeb items or chinese pandering
rugged pilot
Can't just stick to the premise, gotta add chinese new year because it makes big money
rugged pilot
we can't post images in here?
You can put it on a tinyurl
late gate
i personally dont mind it as long as weeb items arent the ONLY thing in a game, ...
Yeah, it's the only weeb item I want. 😛
rugged pilot
Yeah, it's the only weeb item I want. 😛
That opens a sluicegate for people to demand more of it because we have one
late gate
it bothers me that every game has to have weeb items or chinese pandering
Yeah, but so few games use this one. It saddens me because it's my fav weapon, but I never get a chance to use it.
late gate
<:YoloRage:1047559730157064282> Add it, but make it very, very bad
I already expect it to be very bad in the hands of most people, as it removes the ability to have two weapons in your hands with two sets of stats, and getting the hang of a weapon like that would take some finesse, as you're looking to combo people...not just hit them with one facet. I'd want it as a high skill weapon more geared towards proper timing.
Or, of course, catching people entirely off guard through stealth.
twin delta
does this work? it's the morningstar heads i have on hand https://imgur.com/a/zNt2zxQ
but these are all functionally identical (head wise)
and they all read as a morningstar too
rugged pilot
could work yeah, but the basic one is a ball
twin delta
yes
twin delta
are you talking about a ball mace
rugged pilot
So it would have to remain that with customisation
I am heavily against skins because it now looks like a different weapon
twin delta
... no it wouldn't? so long as it's spikey head on a stick it'll come across as a morningstar
rugged pilot
I don't agree
twin delta
would be like saying a rapier stops looking like one if you change the basket
rugged pilot
To me that looks like a blackjack and not a morningstar
If you told me they added a blackjack I'd believe you, its more of a club than a mace
twin delta
hey i got a question
does a normal torch in game stop looking like a torch to you when it's blue?
late gate
To be fair, kinda. Haha.
rugged pilot
Now you mention it, yeah
late gate
Looks like some kinda mage wand until you realize what they're holding.
rugged pilot
Its very borderline for me tbh
Torch doesn't really matter because you don't get threatened by it
twin delta
... it now makes more sense why people seem afraid of blue torches in the game
late gate
I mean, it doesn't bother me...once I learned what it was, that was that. When I first saw it though, I thought someone was holding some weapon I didn't know about.
XD
twin delta
sheesh
rugged pilot
When you don't know what it is, and you know wizards are in the game throwing spells that can do 30dmg to 3 people at once
yes
late gate
It's just such a brilliant blue that you expect pain...not just illumination. 😛
twin delta
but that is the general learning curve of a visual element
late gate
I like the Blue Torches though, they're pretty.
rugged pilot
In a hectic moment I might mistake the morningstar for a flanged mace, especially if its got a skin on it that has a straight head with less spiky spikes
twin delta
thin sword with basket on guard = rapier
rugged pilot
I just don't agree with changing the physical model unless its just fluff
twin delta
arming swords and falchions are a bit too close to one another imo to really change them in a unique way beyond subtle differences on like, blade etching or handles
... breeze we've been talking the same thing
this entire time
cosmetics = visual only
rugged pilot
I agree untill you posted a picture that drastically changed the morningstar
twin delta
i did say 'functionally the same'
rugged pilot
twin delta
and said specifically the heads
rugged pilot
It doesn't appear the same, so I'd vote that down
twin delta
not the whole weapon, but the head alone
twin delta
so you don't like any of the skins that are in the shop?
'cause that's what they are: different looking things
rugged pilot
It doesn't look anywhere near as different is what you posted is what I'm saying
twin delta
and it's not a rectangle, it's a cylinder lined with spikes
twin delta
it's FUNCTIONALLY the same
rugged pilot
if you change the ball its not a morningstar
twin delta
but VISIBLY different
but breeze that's the thing, those are all historical morningstars
rugged pilot
VISIBLY different is why I oppose the skin suggestion
twin delta
but that's the point of a skin
twin delta
that gun customization in red dead you mentioned that you liked is a skin???
rugged pilot
No, it isn't a skin
twin delta
yes it is, it changes the visual element of the gun
rugged pilot
you just change texture of wood grain and colours
rugged pilot
no, it does not change the actual model
twin delta
you do realize those models were actually changed right
they didn't slap on a different texture
rugged pilot
but not the physical model
twin delta
yes, the physical model
rugged pilot
You are being super ADHD right now its unreal
twin delta
they're actually reshaped polygons on those gun parts you change out, and shaders to fake bolts, nails, and screws
i've got extensive history working in the videogame and animation history, so i sadly know what i'm talking about on this
rugged pilot
changing the colour and texture of a thing is not the same as changing the model with a skin
twin delta
you understand that the model being changed doesn't change the weapon right
rugged pilot
skins suck, if they are in a game where identifying the weapon is crucial
it does change your perception of the weapon
twin delta
it's going to have the same animation, hitbox, and behavior
you mean like changing the type of wood on a gun stock?
rugged pilot
Not if you have a musket and its got an AK47 skin on it
twin delta
those aren't functionally the same
twin delta
you're still not understanding that i'm talking about a functionally identical skin that is visibly different
... you're being real dumb about this breeze
twin delta
this isn't asking for a mace to be a morningstar
rugged pilot
I hope you enjoy them, I will not enjoy misidentifying weapons
twin delta
this is morningstar variants being morningstars
late gate
If there's ever a firearm in this game, it should be a gunax. That's the only firearm I'd ever want to see added, and I wouldn't even want to see it added.
rugged pilot
1shot musket would be pogged
oak mauve
I hope you enjoy them, I will not enjoy misidentifying weapons
if you cant distinguish between a red morningstar and a purple morningstar good, theres no difference
twin delta
oh that reminds me
rugged pilot
if you cant distinguish between a red morningstar and a purple morningstar good,...
You didn't see the image
twin delta
damn, two more hours
late gate
1shot musket would be pogged
The Gunax was a flintlock ax. It was actually effective, whereas gunswords weren't.
rugged pilot
if you cant distinguish between a red morningstar and a purple morningstar good,...
It was not a different colour like I wanted, it was a different head entirely
twin delta
alternate fire on crossbows: aim. make the hipfire on the crossbow have the spread on the crosshair like it needs to be reloaded
oak mauve
It was not a different colour like I wanted, it was a different head entirely
Not really
rugged pilot
Yeah, was stunned that crossbow has no zoom or aim
twin delta
also perfect accuracy on hipfire
granite plinth
I think skins should be cosmetic only, but I don't hate races having different stats for more character options, an elf rogue being slightly different than a human one is a level of depth. Just balanced and not gatekept too hard yeah?
rugged pilot
Not really
yes really, to me it appeared to be a different mace
oak mauve
I just saw the image
you’re just contrarian for the purpose of being contrarian arent you?
late gate
I think skins should be cosmetic only, but I don't hate races having different s...
While I wouldn't mind it, the chaos it could cause is likely not worth it too.
rugged pilot
you’re just contrarian for the purpose of being contrarian arent you?
No, I'm saying its easy to mistake for a different mace
twin delta
ඞ
rugged pilot
No, I'm saying its easy to mistake for a different mace
and I don't want skins of that kind to be in the game
twin delta
breeze, for one a morningstar is not a mace
oak mauve
What mace are you mistaking it for?
rugged pilot
I would say it looks more like a blackjack
twin delta
it is a headed weapon yes, but it's not a mace. hammers, maces, axes, and morningstars are in the same family
oak mauve
Is there a blackjack in the game?
rugged pilot
Could there be one added? Why are we making skins that look like other items instead of just changing textures of wood grain and metal shades?
oak mauve
Could there be one added? Why are we making skins that look like other items ins...
I doubt it why would you add a nonlethal weapon
Seems counterproductive
rugged pilot
Quarterstaff users say what
twin delta
knock the mob out, steal their loot
rugged pilot
Any weapon can beat somebodies head in and kill them
oak mauve
Quarterstaves arent a nonlethal weapon
twin delta
they're now waking up and going back to patrol
rugged pilot
Right, but a club with spikes in it is nonlethal
twin delta
ultimate rat
i don't think you know what a blackjack is if you think it's a morningstar
rugged pilot
Skins are a terrible idea for weapon identification
twin delta
it's a banded rod of leather that's basically a police baton
rugged pilot
Metal shading and fittings / wood grain is way better and cooler, lets players customise their item without making it look like another item
oak mauve
i don't think you know what a blackjack is if you think it's a morningstar
the only image in his mind is “Willow blackjack (o)” from runescape
twin delta
... i don't recognize that hold on
OH THE SWITCH!?
runescape has ruined you breeze
smh
rugged pilot
The most primal form of blackjack was a plank with nails in it lmao
twin delta
no
the most primal form of blackjack was just grass straps bound together and used as a club made from reeds
rugged pilot
or a log filed into a pear shape with nails in it
twin delta
you're looking at a switch, which is the plank with a nail in it
and seeing a videogame version of it named wrong
and assuming it's the correct one
rugged pilot
Nothing like the one I have in my locker for larping
sweet bramble
Yes
twin delta
do you even know where the name or term blackjack came from for it?
sweet bramble
Unga bunga club heads
rugged pilot
do you even know where the name or term blackjack came from for it?
not originally actually
but I do know who used them 
sweet bramble
"It's a card game, duh"
twin delta
black leather used by highwaymen to subdue travelers from an ambush or to allow a 'legal' weapon because it's not made of wood nor has a blade on it, used to extort or kidnap people in the black of night. the men who you could hire for this like mercenaries were referred to as 'jacks' and usually were 'jacks of the trade'
jacks who kidnapped were called blackjacks
and they were known for carrying those black leather rods
rugged pilot
LMAO I am only just realising there is more than one image
Now I see why you are clowning on me
twin delta
🤣
rugged pilot
flails 
twin delta
that's where you're objectively wrong: it doesn't need to look the same; it needs to behave the same
rugged pilot
No, thats my entire point
twin delta
glad your point is being wrong
rugged pilot
It has to look visibly the same, recognisibly the same
twin delta
jk jk
rugged pilot
or its not a morningstar, you could mistake it and die because of that
twin delta
i got an idea
twin delta
react with 👍 if you think these are all morningstars, react with 👎 if you do not think they are all morningstars. react with 🤔 if at least half are morningstars https://imgur.com/a/zNt2zxQ
breeze, that morningstar has a thinner shaft
that looks different
rugged pilot
I think they are all morningstars lmao, they just don't look like the one in game
true, but a slightly thinner shaft is not unrecognisible for the morning star. its the head that matters
twin delta
googled up runescape to see if they had a morningstar and i got a picture of bones instead
rugged pilot
The first and last image on that link does not look like the one in game, so its a skin and not a customisation
rugged pilot
a ball with spikes yes
twin delta
no, not a ball
rugged pilot
It will look like the one in game
twin delta
a HEAD with spikes
rugged pilot
ball only or it isn't like the one in game
twin delta
the ball for the basic one is the head
that's the point of the skin breeze
so then it looks somewhat different
recognizable as a morningstar
rugged pilot
That is what alot of players are opposed to in Dark & Darker
twin delta
being able to recognize similarities?
rugged pilot
they want to instantly recognise the weapon and not notice it looks somewhat different
somewhat different = 💩
twin delta
so they don't want to have to learn
rugged pilot
Nobody should have to learn because you put on an abstract skin
twin delta
in a game that you're forced to learn
you mean like with a skeleton player having adjusted stats?
or blue torches
rugged pilot
you mean like with a skeleton player having adjusted stats?
means nothing
rugged pilot
or blue torches
means nothing
late gate
Most people in games with a heavy PVP element want to be able to see what the enemy has and know what it is. Granted, uniques kinda throw that out the window... Anthony Kongphan is currently killing people with a unique sword that...people just aren't ready for at all, haha.
twin delta
then your argument means nothing at this point
rugged pilot
Well, it does mean something though
twin delta
if it's fine for a skeleton or elf player to have a cosmetic and mild functional difference to a human
rugged pilot
If Barb had an axe with a skin that looks like a different barb axe, you can lose expecting a different animation.
because he equipped a skin
twin delta
then it's fine for a weapon to look similar to its original and just be mildly different only visually*
late gate
then your argument means nothing at this point
Uniques partially support your point, but as @rugged pilot Breeze is pointing out...people generally want to know what they're up against by visualization in PVP games.
rugged pilot
yes, if the "somewhat difference" fools you into expecting another animation and losing your gear
twin delta
yes
so if something looks like a mace but has spikes
it's a morningstar right?
is it really that difficult
rugged pilot
If it has a ball head and spikes, it will look like the one that is base in game
yes
twin delta
it literally just needs the spikes
rugged pilot
you will not fool me into saying anything else
It will need to look the same as the one in game or it looks too different
twin delta
you're asking for the same, when i'm talking about similar
late gate
Wait, is this argument between a smooth ball mace and one with spikes?
twin delta
so any change made means it's not the same
rugged pilot
wood grain, metal shades and metal fittings do not change the identification of the weapon
rugged pilot
Wait, is this argument between a smooth ball mace and one with spikes?
no, he wants to change the shape of the head from a ball to a rectangle
twin delta
yeah breeze demands a ball head morningstar
otherwise it's no good
when a morningstar literally just needs a head with spikes
twin delta
we're using the example 'cause it's the easiest to work with
i'm going to draw what i've been getting from the discussion at this point
rigid geyser
No offence, but the game is like half finished, why are we bothering wasting our time talking about skins that add near to nothing to the game. Shouldn't we focus on the actual problems and gameplay mechanics?
rugged pilot
Customize wood grain ✅
Customize metal shading ✅
add nails instead of spikes poking out ✅
make the wood rotten and moudly ✅
make the metal shiny or aged ✅
change the shape of it ❌
Because SKINS do change the game
drastically
if you cannot quickly identify what weapon is being used, you can throw an entire 3v3
late gate
No offence, but the game is like half finished, why are we bothering wasting our...
Cause the devs have to make money to keep it up?
chrome dome
I get it Breeze. Dark and Darker has a few weapons that have few differences visually, but have different attack animations. So seeing a weapon skin, that changes the overall silhouette might suggest a different animation when there isn't. You're saying that sort of change in a morning star, might suggest it's a different weapon with animation, rather than a skinned weapon
rugged pilot
Classic example today, I was fighting a team and they knew that I had a Warmaul as Barb, so they only engaged on my right side where my weapon hit the wall, if I ever took a wide corner I got spammed by ranged fire
We lost that fight because the enemy identified my weapon and used it again me
late gate
My main issue with skins that change the shape of a weapon is that you would expect that on unique weapons, because a skin can't be "special" beyond the visual appearance...otherwise it provides an unfair advantage. Unique weapons, however, are supposed to be stronger...special. So they should be the weapons that actually have the most visual uniqueness to them, whereas cosmetics should be subtle, like stains, grip-binds, etc...just subtle things to personalize your items more.
rugged pilot
if I had a skin to make it look like a different weapon, fooled them into engaging where they shouldn't and losing, that shit aint fair.
twin delta
https://imgur.com/O81fG1c these are both morningstars. the one on the left is too much not like the one on the right for breeze
rugged pilot
Yes exactly
twin delta
you see how they're both spiky heads on sticks
one is just a cylinder instead of a ball
late gate
I think that's best...because then the unique weapons can look the most different, and judging from the unique I'm watching right now in this stream...uniques SHOULD look very different because hot damn do they absolutely SLAP.
rugged pilot
The left one looks way more like a flanged mace for example than the morningstar in game, simple as
rigid geyser
Yeah but then u cant tell the rarity of the item being used, example If its purple or a grey longsword. It's a small amount of information you're hiding but in a game like this I think information is the key to everything. Don't get me wrong, obviously you're welcome to talk about whatever you like but yeah I just think skins are a bad idea overall. I think peoples time and ideas are better spent on actual additions to the game.
rugged pilot
Yeah but then u cant tell the rarity of the item being used, example If its purp...
rarity does not matter with spacing
twin delta
here i'll do you one better breeze
rugged pilot
You can outplay purple longsword with a rondel if you know how to space
Though that shit is HARD
rugged pilot
and flanges can you
Yes, I can
but not in a dark corridor with little lights and more than that to look at
rigid geyser
I understand what you're saying but I still believe its hiding information that an experienced eye could spot
late gate
you see how they're both spiky heads on sticks
I really think the most unique skins should be reserved for unique weapons. In that sense, I would agree that they should look a good bit different from the base versions that don't have, for example, lightning powers on them...heh.
rugged pilot
true but why make it harder when you could do these things instead
Customize wood grain ✅
Customize metal shading ✅
add nails instead of spikes poking out ✅
make the wood rotten and moudly ✅
make the metal shiny or aged ✅
change the shape of it ❌
twin delta
tell me that looks more like a flanged mace and not a morningstar
rugged pilot
here's your flanged mace silhouette
You are damage controlling a problem you created
late gate
Granted, the unique in question that I'm watching does have perpetual energy swirling around the blade.
rigid geyser
u might want to play something abit more cautiously if you think someone has good gear no?
twin delta
it's a problem you're having
rugged pilot
it's a problem you're having
its a problem many people have with other games and don't want in this one
twin delta
nails instead of spikes poking out? that changes the shape breeze. y'sure that's good?
rugged pilot
Which is why skin suggestions get thumbed down
because people don't want to lose weapon identification
rugged pilot
nails instead of spikes poking out? that changes the shape breeze. y'sure that's...
Not if its on a ball head
twin delta
i'm surprised people are not upset over fighters and clerics being able to wear templar vestments then
rugged pilot
nails instead of spikes poking out? that changes the shape breeze. y'sure that's...
they are still spikes coming out of a ball, its simply changing the shading and texture of the metal
which affects nothing
rugged pilot
They are spikes with a different grain and shade on them lmao
twin delta
you know the flanged mace has a ball in the center of it too right?
rugged pilot
i'm surprised people are not upset over fighters and clerics being able to wear ...
Fighter and Cleric are rather similar in function
both can hit you with a morningstar for example
But yes, people don't love all-class items for that exact reason
twin delta
or a flanged mace. shame it's so hard to tell the difference between the two, though one has spikes instead of broad paneling
rugged pilot
Not hard at all if you glimpse the head
twin delta
oh you mean the spiked head
rugged pilot
which should always be a ball for easy identification
twin delta
i really wish you the best in your inability to recognize silhouettes
rugged pilot
which you won't. Game fidelities > skins
the game functioning as it should > a literal sprite
rigid geyser
^
twin delta
what stance are you even on
if you're saying i was talking about changing the function for a sprite
rugged pilot
nobody said that but you
not even once did I say it makes the function of the weapon different
twin delta
no? it's been functionally identical, just visibly different from the start
rugged pilot
but it does affect player perception
twin delta
you're really arguing about how a personal bias affects the game
that's where you are right now
rugged pilot
A personal bias exhibited by lots of people that don't want skins
and you really want skins don't you Beverage
twin delta
what do you say to people who want this game to be more like fortnite
honest question
rugged pilot
Please go and play Fortnite
twin delta
that applies here
twin delta
skins are already in the game
twin delta
it's gonna be if the devs don't want to make duplicate weapons that behave with slight variations or behaviors if they want a different design added into the game
rugged pilot
If they have sense it will be customisable textures that don't change the weapon identifcation
Like the current player models
twin delta
which is a lot more work than just changing the model, which on its own is only visual. if you're thinking changing the model means it adjusts the hitbox, hurtbox, or stats then you really don't know how this works
rugged pilot
and at borderline value, torch
twin delta
okay okay
rugged pilot
more work is not bad if it saves the integrity of the game
twin delta
keys have different shapes and sizes right
you still recognize a key as a key
it's literally just that for weapon designs
rugged pilot
Yes but I would not want a key skin on my house key
because it would not look like my house key
rugged pilot
Okay, thats fine
I hope they never get added to the game and so do lots more people lmao
twin delta
but you don't want people to have key skins for their house keys
rugged pilot
stop trying to change my mind
Beverage, I am more stubborn'a mule chewin on bumblebees
You will not change my mind
twin delta
the fact you think this is an attempt to change your mind
is just actually insane to me
it's a discussion
rugged pilot
Then what are you trying to do by making constant analogys and showing me images
twin delta
so you understand
you can keep your own bias
but you don't seem to exhibit an understanding to it
rugged pilot
I understand you want skins that will put weapon identification in peril, similar to fortnite
twin delta
what?
honest granite
Chain lightning needs to be nerfed something chronic
granite plinth
Couldn't you tell the weapon by the attack animation regardless? This whole discussion seems kinda moot
twin delta
it's naturally balanced to being able to hit the wizard who casted it
also it can be blocked
agreed sazuru
rugged pilot
Couldn't you tell the weapon by the attack animation regardless? This whole disc...
You shouldn't have to wait for the animation to identify the weapon
if the team I faught earlier had to wait, they would be dead in one swing
worthy spear
breeze, youd rather just have the whole solo lobbies a big team fest?
honest granite
it's naturally balanced to being able to hit the wizard who casted it
Not very fair though when there is two of us decently geared with blue pot and cleric protection being 3/4th healthed in one hit
twin delta
protection only works on physical cryo
rugged pilot
like with arming sword or falchion
This is a solid point if the animations weren't poor as they are right now
twin delta
it's in the spell description even
granite plinth
You shouldn't have to wait for the animation to identify the weapon
Why not? Scouting out your enemies and outpositioning is 90% of the fight in this game, you're gonna see em swing before its at you if you had a chance to win anyway
rugged pilot
make it so you can report people teaming in solos. maybe they get restricted access in solos for awhile if they get reported too many times. its annoying going to solos to avoid having to play 3v1's or 2v1's to still have it happen in solo dungeons....
@worthy spear
I don't understand why so many people keep bringing this up
Solo mode is for QUEUEing solo
not playing solo 100%
twin delta
it's because when there's a team in the tombs who isn't doing too well they go team in solos by coordinating their queue
rugged pilot
if you have evidence of that you can report them
worthy spear
not playing solo 100%
then they can go play in the regular lobbies? instead of teaming with someone and ruining someone elses experience just trying to play the game
twin delta
i've ran into it a few times where i've killed a team who wasn't doing too well then decided to try out soloing to grind up another character and found that same team in the caves
i'm still scrounging through 50 or so hours of footage
rugged pilot
then they can go play in the regular lobbies? instead of teaming with someone an...
99% of players in goblin caves are not premeditated teaming
twin delta
... i don't want to stop adding to the pile 'cause i do love playing this game
rugged pilot
then they can go play in the regular lobbies? instead of teaming with someone an...
They just friendly crouch or getting on VOIP to team up, thats fair and allowed.
twin delta
i think the issue is when there's teaming without proximity vc
worthy spear
99% of players in goblin caves are not premeditated teaming
no but the blatant ones where they kill you and they both just loot you and walk away together is frustrating
rugged pilot
no but the blatant ones where they kill you and they both just loot you and walk...
Whats wrong with that?
worthy spear
Whats wrong with that?
.....
twin delta
especially when they both enter the same room without an introduction
opal canopy
granite plinth
A team trying to snipe each other's queue for solo sucks, but how to differentiate from people naturally teaming based on their situation? Lots of people still just crouch at you a lot
twin delta
crouch or surrender
rugged pilot
You cannot prove somebody is doing the queue sniping
if you can, report it
with video
twin delta
not without an investigation
or if they're dumb enough to do it live on stream
asking for a lot with that one
rugged pilot
Most people that have a problem with "teaming in goblin cave" are just upset that people make friends and kill them
and think solo dungeon means no teaming in the mission
twin delta
eh
worthy spear
Most people that have a problem with "teaming in goblin cave" are just upset tha...
why did they put solos in the first place do you think?
twin delta
at the same time, there are also those assholes who try to kill in the dungeon
rugged pilot
why did they put solos in the first place do you think?
For solo players to play?
twin delta
and expect nobody to try killing them
worthy spear
so solo people dont go against teams and just immediately lose to them
rugged pilot
Yep
twin delta
so they get upset if people improvise a truce
rugged pilot
so solo people dont go against teams and just immediately lose to them
You aren't talking about premeditated teaming, you are genuinely upset somebody goes on mic and says "Hey man friendly?" and then they kill you
twin delta
today before the weapon skins talk, i teamed up with a barbarian in the caves 'cause a wizard was hunting players
so we hunted down the wizard
but it was in game
rugged pilot
Me too lmao
I ran into a fighter and surrendered say "Hey dude, theres a rogue and I'm scared, lets fight him together" and we did
thats fair game
worthy spear
You aren't talking about premeditated teaming, you are genuinely upset somebody ...
yes, but thats still so weird to do. regardless. just play the regular lobbies if youre doing that
rugged pilot
No it isn't. Its just the nature of survival game where you want to survive. The only time its weird is if you KILL ON SIGHT and no mic all the time
twin delta
barbarians love attacking when you plea though
rugged pilot
coinflip on if they'll let you live
true
rugged pilot
barbarians love attacking when you plea though
also true
rare basin
barbarians love attacking when you plea though
yes i love killing you all while screaming
granite plinth
Tbh for newer players the relative difficulty of the solo dungeon compared to the normally intended dungeon encourages more teaming up. Tweaking that would change the team up rate
rugged pilot
Team up is great for the game though
you may make a new friend you can invite or add on steam
and play longer
twin delta
i agree with that
worthy spear
No it isn't. Its just the nature of survival game where you want to survive. The...
what? the solo dungeon is literally for solo players trying to not run into teams, if you kill on site or let them walk away thats fine, but when you start teaming up with someone to kill the lobby it shouldnt be allowed, if youre doing that they can play the regular mode
rugged pilot
what? the solo dungeon is literally for solo players trying to not run into team...
Yes, have you tried getting on the mic or surrendering to players?
Or do you whip out franc axes and start tossing
worthy spear
Or do you whip out franc axes and start tossing
LMAO, im on a wizard, and they dont care man. they just run it down on you anyway.
rugged pilot
what? the solo dungeon is literally for solo players trying to not run into team...
Simply, no. People enjoy solo queue and having freedom to team up in game. Its very normal for extraction games.
Yes, expect to be hunted on Ranger or Wizard
worthy spear
Simply, no. People enjoy solo queue and having freedom to team up in game. Its v...
then team in the regular mode no?
rugged pilot
Its legitimately the only reason people spammed for weeks to get VOIP
to be friendly and joke around
twin delta
but you an watch the kill feed while being a rat and see one barbarian kill three guys in under a minute
and go 'ah, friendlies'
fervent falcon
Most people that have a problem with "teaming in goblin cave" are just upset tha...
Yeah I very rarely see teaming in goblin cave, I don't think its a problem at least yet. In my experience its usually a newbie. Anyway there is also "teaming" in main dungeon even if its just one person running for their life and the other not engaging. Sometimes its smarter to do that, when there's multiple teams and/or fog in play. It's like swinging pickaxe in Fortnite when its a bad situation for both of you.
rugged pilot
I don't think its a problem at all. Rarely do teamers in goblin cave refuse to team with you
twin delta
part of the adventuring life
rugged pilot
Unless you are a filthy ranged spammer, you will likely get some bouncy crouches and surrenders
twin delta
rugged pilot
ebon idol
You can't trust anyone, and they will kill you if there is only one extract left.
twin delta
eh
rugged pilot
Most of the time I would not, unless they give me sus behaviour
twin delta
when i've been friends with a person improvised it's like
rugged pilot
I would happily die the ring so my son could leave
twin delta
we hold the door open for one another at the last portal
i've had to dump items on the ground and tell 'em to take it for them to leave
ebon idol
Fact is, you never can be sure.
rugged pilot
i've had to dump items on the ground and tell 'em to take it for them to leave
Yeah
"im not gonna make it boss.. Take my golden waterpots."
worthy spear
I don't think its a problem at all. Rarely do teamers in goblin cave refuse to t...
see, i see these kind of games like everyone fends for themself if you queue, especially into a SOLO game, if you talk and say you dont want to fight to me ill say sure move along then. im not going to befriend them and start slaying other people down having a unfair advantage.
south cliff
Do you need an authorization to put a suggestion?
worthy spear
its just cringe
twin delta
"these shoes have gotten me through some tough times bruv. they'll make sure you get through those times too"
rugged pilot
see, i see these kind of games like everyone fends for themself if you queue, es...
They are fending for themself
but some people find slight safety in numbers
worthy spear
They are fending for themself
they are holding eachothers hands and fighting other SOLOS
rugged pilot
I've been 1hp as Rogue and made friends with a full HP barb
simply because I had no chance of killing him
not a chance in hell
no way
worthy spear
thats not fendiing for yourself thats fending for you and the people youre teaming with
ebon idol
3vsCavetroll
rugged pilot
they are holding eachothers hands and fighting other SOLOS
You can do it too
ebon idol
Collect friends for the
rugged pilot
I saw naked barb kill the troll by just looking down every time it swings
easy farm
rugged pilot
I saw it after patch last night
twin delta
wait does the overhead not go low eanough?
rugged pilot
I saw it after patch last night
no problem
worthy spear
Collect friends for the <:Cavetroll:1069787397170155591>
see this i can get behind, but its like going after people that are solo just to loot everyone else in the lobby is weird
rugged pilot
see this i can get behind, but its like going after people that are solo just to...
Not really, they gained an advantage in the match
why would they not use it
worthy spear
Not really, they gained an advantage in the match
lmaoo
ebon idol
The only counter to "they gain an advantage by teaming up" is always "it is cringe"
rugged pilot
"I died tho"
"I shot my newbie fighter spawn-mate untill he died so I had no friend"
ebon idol
Teaming up, like everything in this game, is a gamble. It rewards you for taking a risk.
worthy spear
its not illegal to not attack your neighbor
Then remove solos all together. theres no point in having it if youre just trying to team and team up on other solos.
ebon idol
Lol
rugged pilot
Then remove solos all together. theres no point in having it if youre just tryin...
No, if you don't like it you can go back to Forgotten castle
which is easier to extract and gain gold in
worthy spear
No, if you don't like it you can go back to Forgotten castle
then youre guaranteed to play against parties
rugged pilot
Yes, but the game mode is easier, so
ebon idol
Solo has very very limited extracts.
rugged pilot
It makes me a hater to say: get some friends then
twin delta
i've noticed a few things
rugged pilot
then you are in 3v3 not 3v1
ebon idol
If you team up, you risk not having enough portals to escape both you and your mate.
twin delta
basically need to stick near the edges to avoid solos, and you're not getting any loot
rugged pilot
solos in the tomb hang out near the edges
portals also spawn on the edges which most teams miss
which is very safe
worthy spear
It makes me a hater to say: get some friends then
i play with friends but when im on alone, i like to play solos, but still getting teamed on isnt fun.
rugged pilot
Then team up with your neighbors in goblin cave if they let you
The game is not fair
You are not special
get them 
at any cost
fervent falcon
Solo has very very limited extracts.
I never had a problem extracting in solo, it would be a problem maybe if 66% of the lobby didn't die to pve, lol. In castle, you're quieter than a full team and you get first choice on all the loot, that's about the only advantage of solo there. I like to play both as solo sometimes.
twin delta
ye
rugged pilot
Stairs extract in goblin cave is free
shrine of healing if you can take out that pack
it refreshes over time to keep you up
twin delta
man that pack requires some work though
rugged pilot
A little
ebon idol
That doesn't make what I am saying less true. It is a gamble, you need two extracts instead of one when teaming up with someone, and you risk them betraying you.
twin delta
true
rugged pilot
Nah I only need one lmao
I can easily say "bro rogue behind us come help"
and then open it and leave
ebon idol
Is there always an extract on the stairs btw?
worthy spear
That doesn't make what I am saying less true. It is a gamble, you need two extra...
genuinely had this happend to, we said were chill we wont attack eachother i was going on my way, as im opening a door he attacks me in the back,
ebon idol
There are two stairs after all.
rugged pilot
Yeah the stairs is a staircase behind a portcullis
At 3mins or less randomly, the gate opens
worthy spear
thats why i want solos to be just solos and not people being weird teaming,
fervent falcon
Don't even need to do that, just get to the extract before they do, or if its a friendly they often give you the extract. Then there's cave exit. I never grouped or used VOIP in solo so the issue never came up for me.
ebon idol
genuinely had this happend to, we said were chill we wont attack eachother i was...
Yeah, that is the gamble all teamrs have.
rugged pilot
Yeah the stairs is a staircase behind a portcullis
At 3mins or less randomly, t...
depending on ring its very close for some classes but if the goblins are dead, health shrine recharges and you can live long enough to get the extract
ebon idol
It brings in a whole different dynamic to teaming than for example the forgotten castle.
rugged pilot
depending on ring its very close for some classes but if the goblins are dead, h...
if rocks are on the stairs, somebody used it already and you cant
twin delta
i don't like the animation for the stairs btw
legit thought i died
the stones falling from the ceiling to let people know the static stairs were used is a good touch though
rugged pilot
Right now most players die to their spawn-player or PVE and the stairs are a free extract
rugged pilot
the stones falling from the ceiling to let people know the static stairs were us...
Yeah, I think it should drop the stones when you are off the screen
Like you leave and it drops stones
ebon idol
Goblin caves are weird. I don't understand the pve deaths. Then again, I play cleric.
rugged pilot
Rogue is 2shot to goblins if no healing is braught in
ebon idol
I don't bring heal though. Judgement and smite rocks.
rugged pilot
Starter rogue can be very rough in some spawns
borderline impossible if you don't just run and close a door behind you
ebon idol
So thats why everyone dies to one judgement when I meet them.
rugged pilot
fighting 2 goblins + archer in a confined space is actual death lmao
rugged pilot
So thats why everyone dies to one judgement when I meet them.
yeah mostly
one hit + full poison ticks is half hp on rogue, alot of hp on cleric and fighter
tepid spoke
they need to rebalance goblin caves
rugged pilot
and goblin cave either spawns lots of healing or none at all
rugged pilot
they need to rebalance goblin caves
I think its fine, wildcard
the moment you get any gear at all its easy
tepid spoke
;p
twin delta
cleric has high will so debuffs last half as long
twin delta
then protection from evil means the debuff lasts for one tick or two
tepid spoke
goblin mage + homing shots + no healing effect = instant lose hope
rugged pilot
you can legitimately sidestep it
ebon idol
I meany with perserverence the poison doesn't deal any damage anyway.
rugged pilot
or walk in a circle around the mage
tepid spoke
im not that skilled, either way i like killing players in The Forgotten Castle
rugged pilot
I have a harder time in castle than caves
fervent falcon
they need to rebalance goblin caves
To be fair they did, it used to be harder, goblins used to deal 50 dmg and 2 shot most classes. Death beetles used to deal more I'm sure. There used to be a guaranteed elite spider spawn in the mid centre, etc.
ebon idol
I killed goblin mages in caves with starting gear np, just don't let yourself be cornered.
It is not like they stand in very small passages.
fervent falcon
I don't think the goblin mages have ever hit me I don't even know what they do lol.
twin delta
they have a poison spell and a no-heal spell
rugged pilot
They do like 40(?) ish damage and antiheal
ebon idol
Their projectile is pretty slow.
twin delta
the poison spell deals 90 damage to a rogue with the dot
rugged pilot
yeah its slow AF
twin delta
just a fyi
ebon idol
Damn, that is rough
rugged pilot
I didn't even know there was a poison spell
ebon idol
twin delta
the no-heal deals about 45
rugged pilot
I always get antihealed
tepid spoke
i hate goblin mage
twin delta
ye
rugged pilot
I never have an issue with it
faint zinc
The main idea seems to be clear - in order not to collect scrolls, they must be destroyed, the scrolls themselves should not be very cheap (mb around 25-30 gold) per piece, because, they will make an impact in the battle. Well, mages need more skills, because now it is very small, some skills are generally useless - for example, Zap, which deals 1 damage, is generally meaningless.
twin delta
man
rugged pilot
The main idea seems to be clear - in order not to collect scrolls, they must be ...
Who can use them?
twin delta
i can't wait for scrolls to actually give +knowledge or access to a new spell to memorize
faint zinc
Who can use them?
Any, its one-time scrolls
rugged pilot
immediate dislike
faint zinc
immediate dislike
XD
rugged pilot
wizard now available to anybody that carries many scrolls
ebon idol
It would be interesting to see how other classes cast. They should gave negative casting speed, so it takes ages to cast fireball for a fighter.
rugged pilot
I would hate to be fighting some classes with some spells
faint zinc
wizard now available to anybody that carries many scrolls
lol, this is a concept, developers set limits
ebon idol
Oh, I hate the idea.
But it would be funny seeing a fighter wind up fireball for 10 seconds.
rugged pilot
Yeah, but the concept is something I liked if it was available to the right class
rugged pilot
Wizard being able to hold more charges of spells via disposable scrolls is interesting
maybe ONE stronger spell on a rare scroll
ebon idol
Stealing magic from other classes is their thing.
ebon idol
It is called magical secrets man, play 5e.
twin delta
they're able to do melee combat, ranged combat, and both polarities of spellcasting
they're just not good at any of them
rugged pilot
fighter but with a book
faint zinc
Wizard being able to hold more charges of spells via disposable scrolls is inter...
For the wizard, you can add a limit on the number of additional scrolls carried, but at the same time give the opportunity not to destroy them, because, he owns magic
twin delta
(compared to the specialist classes, like fighter, ranger, wizard, cleric)
rugged pilot
For the wizard, you can add a limit on the number of additional scrolls carried,...
I could see it working for wizard and maybe other specific classes with a perk
but not all class all spells
rugged pilot
Indeed
faint zinc
I could see it working for wizard and maybe other specific classes with a perk
That's why I said that this is a concept, not a single proposed idea will be implemented by the developers in its pure form, if it is not an idea to add an inscription above the buff)
twin delta
like we have prayer on cleric right, for purification
rugged pilot
That's why I said that this is a concept, not a single proposed idea will be imp...
Thats why I said needs refining and put 🤔 instead of yes or no
twin delta
bard could do something similar since that's a big AoE, just a generally weaker spell effect
ebon idol
I suggest giving the cleric a perk to deal 4 magic damage every swing, but it is only active if you have no spell memory equipped.
War priest
twin delta
huh... how would bardic inspiration work
rugged pilot
Bard needs to have no footstep sounds but be constantly strumming on a lute
twin delta
i know it's not gonna be a thing
but i want to be able to actually make tabs for songs
faint zinc
Thats why I said needs refining and put 🤔 instead of yes or no
Improvement will depend on the balance in the game, there is still a question whether the players support the addition
rugged pilot
Personally cant see it happening. Spells used at the right time are incredibly impactful
twin delta
like gimme an instrument where i can press keys and play songs
ebon idol
Press Q on a person, and it adds +5 to all stats, but only until the next action (opening door, swing, cast, etc)
rugged pilot
Improvement will depend on the balance in the game, there is still a question wh...
but its very interesting, I like where your head is at
ebon idol
Or 10 seconds
faint zinc
but its very interesting, I like where your head is at
)
twin delta
hmmm
yeah 10 seconds makes sense since interacting with some items is a slog
half speed lockpicking
... okay that's dangerous actually
ebon idol
I meant 10 seconds or next action, whatever comes first.
rugged pilot
Spell that gives the target an an instant action untill the next action
faint zinc
Personally cant see it happening. Spells used at the right time are incredibly i...
its why one spell must be not cheap, mb 25-30g for piece)
torn orchid
oh its so nice i got my unbannn
twin delta
oh so like the attack buffs
ebon idol
We don't want it to be better blessing
twin delta
victory strike, rupture, weakpoint etc
ebon idol
Exactly.
twin delta
yeye i like it
rugged pilot
its why one spell must be not cheap, mb 25-30g for piece)
For a haste scroll that would be much too cheap
torn orchid
do you ever sleep Bubble ?;
faint zinc
For a haste scroll that would be much too cheap
than 50g, its about balance)
ebon idol
I just woke up.
rugged pilot
30g is nothing at all if you wipe a team and get 3/4 of their gear
faint zinc
30g is nothing at all if you wipe a team and get 3/4 of their gear
agree)
twin delta
you only need like three or four treasure items to get 30+ gold
ebon idol
Ye
torn orchid
spells or scrols ?
faint zinc
spells or scrols ?
scrolls with spells)
twin delta
one if it's blue
ebon idol
I think if anything, scrolls are like lockpics.
torn orchid
spells should be pay once to unlock or lvl
rugged pilot
torn orchid
never again after
ebon idol
Only drop them, and let the playerbase decide their worth
faint zinc
I think if anything, scrolls are like lockpics.
yes, agree, good idea)
torn orchid
locakpicks for all spells for the magic kind
ebon idol
A scroll of haste could ve worth 300g upwards