suggestion-discussion

[eager creek]

I play league of legends 🙂

[jagged thunder]

so maybe if i just agree with you

[verbal marsh]

I am proud of your typing skill young one, you have come far.

[eager creek]

Longest shot was 5 meters

Was after nnn

Oh wait nvm.

[verbal marsh]

new season of how to pick up girls in a dungeon started, the adventures of bell continue

[mossy ruin]

If player A has a shield on back and is struck by player B, you think player B should gain advantage in a trade of blows as trade off for the shield working on the back? At that point now the idea, the suggestion, goes from OP and disruptive to OP and distruptive and useless.

[verbal marsh]

Will Bell Cranel survive lv 7 catastrophe only time can tell.

[eager creek]

How about we all agree shield on back is a dumb idea. 🙄

[mossy ruin]

Also.. god forbid frontal attacks collide with shield before body

[mossy ruin]

agree

[jagged thunder]

op like a silent rogue having inf lockpicks?

[verbal marsh]

you're trying to suggest that there will be no desync errors or issues with implementing your idea.

[eager creek]

I've never seen someone call lockpick skill op lol

[jagged thunder]

im talking about his suggestions

[eager creek]

Ah

[verbal marsh]

oh is it a recent suggestion let me look

I wish the bot told you whenver a new suggestion was made in here.

[mossy ruin]

I am saying i think the shield idea is bad, i am explaining his counter argument and fleshing out why its bad.

[eager creek]

It would be flooded w @(suspense) lol

[jagged thunder]

youre countering an argument with its useless ro something similar to that

[mossy ruin]

No, you suggested to tone it down with the shielded player getting stunned, I say thats creating a bad scenario with no benefit to the feature or the game.

[verbal marsh]

It's time to ressurect one of my old suggestions lets see....

[eager creek]

🍿

[verbal marsh]

What do you think xD #d-and-d-suggestions message

[jagged thunder]

your argument was that its op to have a shield on your back, if devs add a stun and moves the player , then youre countering it with some beneficial argument because it doesnt benefit you

[verbal marsh]

I'll take more downvotes w/e

[jagged thunder]

how does a silent rogue benefit the game over proper collision?

[eager creek]

Lame. Don't like the whole durability thing.

Makes me think too much. Just want Unga bunga till I die.

[verbal marsh]

I have it setup for trophy lewt as well.

[mossy ruin]

Can you clean this up so I can respond? I can not what you mean.

[verbal marsh]

as a weapon perk system

[glacial sphinx]

Durability and weight imo are completely unneeded fluff that'll only make the game more tedious and detract from the actual fun gameplay

[verbal marsh]

I think most people dont read past the word durability for my suggestion

[jagged thunder]

wont make a difference

[placid canopy]

The only benefit to durability is gold sink imo. If it's per dungeon I don't see the issue

[glacial sphinx]

just drop less gold instead, so I dont have to repair after every game and can spend more time in game then

[eager creek]

My brains turns off when I see repairs needed lol

[verbal marsh]

Nah if your weapon takes a durability damage chunk, it would be costly to repair but you get the added perk of having the dead persons name you took it off of stapled to it.

So there is an up an down

Old good weapons would have name lists like a book

lol

[glacial sphinx]

it'd just make the hosting more expensive tracking all that data

[eager creek]

Weight makes sense.

[glacial sphinx]

It makes sense as in being realistic but does it make gameplay better? No

[eager creek]

I think it makes it better

[verbal marsh]

could just lower that to a few names then, idk since most anti cheat involves item id tracking.

[wintry forge]

I've only been making suggestions since 12/17, and I've already suggested lots of things I've thought about, so my suggestion rate is slowing down.

[mossy ruin]

The idea was mainly to have rogues be silent at a cost to interaction speed. It is an awesome idea and had nothing to do with our discussion. Your opinion of my valid idea that ive posted does not detract from my comments here. If you want to discuss the silent rogue instead, have at it.

[glacial sphinx]

you'll spend more time sorting and making inventory decisions instead of just playing, imo thats worse

[placid canopy]

The thing I could see with weight is that the more you carry the slower you go? Pure weight limit would be aids though

[eager creek]

Weight is only applied to what you have out, not the inventory

[placid canopy]

I thought they said they were implementing a different weight system

[glacial sphinx]

they already have movespeed modifiers for that

[eager creek]

I.e put away your sword you run faster.

[placid canopy]

To inventory stuff

Maybe it was a suggestion I saw idr

[eager creek]

Oh I didn't hear that. Idl that.

[jagged thunder]

you having a bunch of rogue mains wanting a silent perk doesnt mean much, and its not benefiting the game when you suggest nothing but buffs for your solo main

[eager creek]

Rouges opening doors silently is a good idea and it actually makes sense lol.

[glacial sphinx]

this exists, since every item has a movespeed penalty pretty much, except boots

[verbal marsh]

would imagine that the item id would be tracked normally then the player's profile data would be updated to link it to another players name, then upon that players death it would send the previous owner data along with adding his name to the list, so maybe a shorter list would suffice to keep that from being an issue, but I'd rather catalog all 'owner deaths' with weapon.

[eager creek]

What master of shadows Rouge swings a door open lol?

[eager creek]

Yea I like how it is currently.

[jagged thunder]

do they carry around oil to keep the door opening smoothly?

[eager creek]

Actually a really good suggestion for a silent interaction Rouge perk. Trade damage for stealth plays.

[jagged thunder]

is the door going to open any slower?

[eager creek]

Rouges thematically are known for sneaking into houses and assisinating people.

They dont swing doors wildly like others.

[glacial sphinx]

why would they need oil to be better at something they are practiced in

[jagged thunder]

shield are known for separating you from a weapon lmao

[verbal marsh]

Imo silent door should just be attached to rogue's silent foothold effect hrm

[mossy ruin]

The point of this channel is to further discuss suggestions made, the idea was and is there, if youd like to try to actually make a point instead of trying to put down rogues, id appreciatr that. My main was barbarian by far, and the idea can be shifted, could be its own skill, etc. Lockpicking IMO isnt OP so i thought itd be nice to have a use when it doesn't.

[jagged thunder]

yea and you arent disscussing anything youre saying my suggestions are useless

[mossy ruin]

Yeah probably

[jagged thunder]

im blocking you

[eager creek]

Oh because you two are arguing his suggestion can't be good lol?

[mossy ruin]

Ok

[glacial sphinx]

I think more silent interactions fit the rogue class and aren't necessarily broken or something

[eager creek]

🤣🤣🤣

[jagged thunder]

im not saying that... i used his argument against him

i didnt vot on his suggestion idc

[eager creek]

It would be a tradeoff for other damage or sneaking perks, so it's not even a crazy idea or anything

[eager creek]

But his idea was good? To me at least.

[verbal marsh]

I have a new suggestion guys.

Why dont we give barbarian a perk to throw hatchest straighter hrm.

discuss.

[jagged thunder]

i dont see its use rogue is good enough why focus on one class

game has many more issues than some guy wanting to open a door silently

[eager creek]

Would a perk that makes opening doors silently be op?

[glacial sphinx]

I don't think its necessarily focusing on one class, I think every class should have a few more perks and skill tree things and suggestions for one doesnt mean excluding others

[jagged thunder]

would you tripping after getting hit in your back shield be op?

if so then yes

[eager creek]

???

[placid canopy]

🧂

[eager creek]

Stay on one topic, idk what yall are arguing about lol

[verbal marsh]

[jagged thunder]

im being realistic nothing is op in this game if a shield working as a shiled is op than im pretty sure silently moving is op as well

[placid canopy]

I think he's lashing out at other suggestions because everyone thought his idea was bad

[mossy ruin]

TucanSlam idk why you fixated on me, but relax I was just trying to shut down your suggestion because i thought it flawed. Its sort of the point here.

[eager creek]

Ok he's beyond salty lol

[jagged thunder]

theres like 4 of you

[verbal marsh]

[jagged thunder]

self projection, cant stand the constructive criticism

so insinuate

[mossy ruin]

uhh

[jagged thunder]

lets keep it to suggestions and not ego stroking

[glacial sphinx]

we kinda moved on from the shield on the back thing to talk about the other suggestion

[verbal marsh]

Don't forget to vote on my suggestion #d-and-d-suggestions message

[placid canopy]

My pov is that the shield stun thing wasn't worth even talking about because the original part was a bad idea

[eager creek]

I was trying to chat with you but you're out for blood

[verbal marsh]

I expect to see them big numbers go up

[jagged thunder]

the whole convo was about shields and how useless they would be if they worked properly

[eager creek]

You just don't like blooddrum lol

So anything he says is bad.

[jagged thunder]

chat? you be trolling 24 7

[eager creek]

Truuuuue

[muted crag]

Suggestions have fucking devolved into "make this class op" or "ruin this system and everything related to it".

[verbal marsh]

Time to resurrect another one of my suggestions

My take on the bard: https://cdn.discordapp.com/avatars/349598450230231042/74f009e2202562dd69f26df18aa53803.png

[jagged thunder]

everyone suggesting off the wall buffs for their mains

[placid canopy]

Anything relating to balance literally doesn't even matter to the devs right now. They've said that in the Q&A. They just wanna see how different systems work out

[verbal marsh]

Show me them big numbers peoples

[jagged thunder]

no one suggesting improvements to the game other than improvements to their prefered playstyles

[verbal marsh]

#d-and-d-suggestions message woops wrong copy spot lol

[muted crag]

All I want is for a war maul to not be brought down to falchion damage on fighter, or another comparison the windlass doing less that the crossbow.

[glacial sphinx]

I think there's some cool ideas there, but in general I don't really like to vote on something that is essentially 40 different ideas. Cause I may not like 7-8 of them

[verbal marsh]

push the middle button

[muted crag]

Or those 7 may be horrible deal breakers.

[eager creek]

Yea I'm not reading a that lol

[mossy ruin]

Anyways, I think it would be cool to stealth near a door thats gunna have traffic at somepoint and stealthy open. Honestly maybe opening doors for all classes could have a skill check built in for silent opening. But yeah, my preferree playstyle in general is ganking.

[placid canopy]

I saw something earlier that was a really cool idea and then they ruined it with something dumb in the next sentence

[eager creek]

The barb throwing axe was a good suggestion tho

[mossy ruin]

But i ganke on barbarian heHE

[muted crag]

You HAVE throwing axes.

[mossy ruin]

can you link it?

[verbal marsh]

Oh i dont make good suggestions I make edgy ones.

xD

[eager creek]

He wrote it in chat here

[mossy ruin]

ty

[verbal marsh]

yeah but i didnt submit it : P

[eager creek]

My two suggestions are fire 🔥 though. Upvote them 🙂

[placid canopy]

It was like straighter line axe on barb perk or something

Maybe faster proj speed too

Throwing weapons feel really hard to use

[glacial sphinx]

I think something like Throwing Mastery for barb could be Skill Tree thing I guess, with the better throw speed/angle I guess

[muted crag]

One suggestion I saw was popular in positive votes was for player races to not have altered stats.

[jagged thunder]

why have races?

[verbal marsh]

so are mine! idk why so many people dont like em >.>

[muted crag]

Fantasy setting @jagged thunder

[jagged thunder]

why have stats?

[eager creek]

Orc, lizardmen, black people

[muted crag]

Honestly I wasnt a fan of the idea.

[placid canopy]

Cuz it's a game

[eager creek]

All fantasty choices for this time period

[mossy ruin]

I like the idea of altered stats, but not the ones we were given

[muted crag]

Yeah, straight up -ehp was harsh.

[placid canopy]

I think races have to have some type of stat if their hitboxes are different

[glacial sphinx]

If hitboxes are different yes

[verbal marsh]

dwarves have hearty, they receive 20 more hp, and are shorter :3

[glacial sphinx]

thats two buffs

[placid canopy]

There's no shot dwarf is the same hitbox as elf or something though

I don't think short is a buff

[glacial sphinx]

smaller target

[eager creek]

Kinda don't like that idea, cuz in wow there are best races for each class.

[placid canopy]

Harder to headshot enemies and more likely to be headshot

[verbal marsh]

They are lower to ground so perfect for humans to headshot with dagger, and also have a lower ms speed due to their diminutive nature.

[muted crag]

Yeah lets not have that.

[verbal marsh]

also their heads are fatter.

[glacial sphinx]

take it to the extreme I feel its a buff to be a 1 inch ranger or wizard

[placid canopy]

Short is prob buff vs archers but weaker to all melee

Lower effective dps too cuz you can't headshot as easily

[eager creek]

Hard to get high ground when you're low ground lol

[muted crag]

"Aim at the walking chicken nugget!"

[verbal marsh]

Yeah short is not a buff when it comes to axe animations lol

fkn knee biters.

[glacial sphinx]

its situational, but people would mostly use it in the situation where its a pure buff

[verbal marsh]

they have fatter heads remember, so how are they winning in an archery contest?

they also have more obsticles cause they cant look over ledges the same as a human.

[eager creek]

Yea all races should be cosmetic.

[mossy ruin]

@hushed plover tbh, i see what you mean, but stealthing in shadow still worked fine, and usually ur around a corner, etc. But yeah maybe they glow way too much

[placid canopy]

Could see small being better on long range only characters

[verbal marsh]

so they tend to jump onto them and become a target

but their fat little heads always poke over the ledge lol

[glacial sphinx]

So I think if you want to balance a race, and lets say you're saying its hitbox is a buff at range but a nerf in melee, then I guess you'd not give it flat HP, but rather give it something like bonus melee dmg as a tradeoff

[verbal marsh]

hp is to make up for the ms loss and increased headshot receiving

[muted crag]

Aw hell nah, we all know how fucky that can get.

[verbal marsh]

also their chop animation requires precision to hit enemy heads that are taller

so players are taking less dmg from them in first place

[placid canopy]

You'd have to jump attack lol

[glacial sphinx]

doesnt have to be a static amount if that's what you're imagining

[mossy ruin]

i think being small is already a buff and nerf

[verbal marsh]

they do less dmg as rogues cause at most they can stick you in the rear.

[glacial sphinx]

i think its a 100% buff to a ranger or wizard

[verbal marsh]

and they're also slower so meh

[muted crag]

Lets just ask ironmace if they plan to have differnt sized races first before we go down this rabbit hole any further.

[verbal marsh]

they would make good for hide tho since its more of a positioining tactic

[placid canopy]

Dwarf could have something like "giant fighting: grants 10% increased physical melee damage to enemies larger than you" to fit your suggestion

[verbal marsh]

but overall playing a dwarf wouldn't have much benefit

other then being a dwarf

[eager creek]

Guys, in every mmo where races w diff stats exist, there becomes a Meta on which race plays which class. That defeats the whole purpose of even having different races because it forces you to pick what's best.

[hushed plover]

I have updated my suggestion with this video clip now. https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxecaQjCZfqdLfRFmI3XlFCBt9l3cIBEIF

[muted crag]

True @eager creek

[mossy ruin]

you are right, but you can hve fun too but yeh

[hushed plover]

My main issue is that it would be much more fun to actually see the opponent you're fighting and not swinging in his general direction

[glacial sphinx]

Yeah we're only talking about them because we were talking about differing hitbox sizes having the same effect, and needing to be offset

[placid canopy]

I think that's just gonna be the game though. Skill trees and perk options will exist and eventually there will be a meta anyway

[jagged thunder]

a dwarf should be more resourceful at a cost of agility or something

[verbal marsh]

who cares about your so called meta in first place ?

[muted crag]

Main stat values could work.

[eager creek]

Of course but now you're forced to play as minotaur barb or elven ranger

[placid canopy]

Is that a downside? It's like now where everyone is forced to be human

[jagged thunder]

dwarfs are suppose to be handy and slow right

[eager creek]

I like the idea of races without changes to stats

[muted crag]

Hold on yall, every class gets some downside or benefit from every main stat, why not just have those be the race effects?

[verbal marsh]

yeah most likely fast at doors slow on feet makes sense

[eager creek]

So you can play what you want without having a benefit.

[glacial sphinx]

Would you say every race has the same hitbox then?

[jagged thunder]

the skeleton skin effected sheet stats so idk if race would be the same as cosmetics?

[mossy ruin]

tbfair, you can kinda see the player, and the stream has less color per pixel and then uploaded, but I for one dont mind it atm. Either way works for me.

[placid canopy]

Just wouldn't be able to add small races

[eager creek]

They would need to, yes.

[placid canopy]

Or traditionally bulky

[hushed plover]

Sure, that's just my opinion ^^

[glacial sphinx]

That's consistent at least yeah, might look/feel off though.

[placid canopy]

The reason I think races should have different things is cuz this game already has so many customizations. It's already a minmax spreadsheet game

And the perks aren't even out yet

[verbal marsh]

when you look at 20 armor value it really didn't do much unless you had 0 armor lol

[mossy ruin]

Im just indifferent on the potion thing. It is stylistic moving forward though as a game. xD

[verbal marsh]

people over exclaimed about those armor values also

20 is 2% i think?

[placid canopy]

Just put skins over the different races if you want something different, but another customization option is cool to me

[muted crag]

Depends on how much or little you had, armor DR has kinda a whole W curve on its graph.

[jagged thunder]

i need that in depth character customization

[mossy ruin]

I want dwarves just to be a dwarf

[eager creek]

But races won't matter when a meta is formed. In wow everyone went X race for X class. It becomes the norm. Doesn't feel like you're picking a fantasy, you're just doing what's optimal.

[muted crag]

I just used the red skele skin to get rid of the fighters bowl cut.

[verbal marsh]

you shouldn't try to speak for everyone.

you tend to sound stupid when you do that.

[eager creek]

If you play at a disadvantage because of your race, you'll make the switch too

Unless you're strictly playing for fun.

[verbal marsh]

now you just sound like a straight up moron when trying to speak for me lol

[gray vessel]

nobody plays games for fun, cmon be realistic

[eager creek]

Facts

[placid canopy]

But you don't even see yourself in game. Just show your skin in the tavern 🤷‍♂️

[eager creek]

Anyways I guess I should've said I don't want to play with the sweats who are only going to play the most optimal races for their classes in high rollers.

Because I'll be forced to do the same.

[placid canopy]

I think that's just the game

It's the same with optimizing gear stats and perks and skills

It's a math game like path of exile

[eager creek]

I'm only saying for races to be cosmetic.

[placid canopy]

Yeah I mean I guess it doesn't matter if one thing is left out, but you're forced to only have same size/shape races in the game

[mossy ruin]

tbh, i know what you mean. But the game still operates. Hopefully the disadvantages turn out small, Id play dwarf barbarian and enjoy it even with a try hard mindset if it was bad.

[verbal marsh]

comes down to level design.

[glacial sphinx]

Think the main thing is no one enjoys playing something that looks crappy to them just to not be disadvantaged. But I think as long as there's tradeoffs and its pretty even it might be fine to have some differences

[verbal marsh]

There easily can be areas a shorter race cant jumpto as being a huge disadvantage but can crouch through as a bigger advantage.

dwarves might have to carry stones and books around just to reach certain areas.

who knows

[eager creek]

Anything is playable at low-mid lv but I always try to compete with the sweats. So that means optimal and it's just unfun to be pigeonholed w race. You're already pudgeonholed w builds, perks, skills etc.

[verbal marsh]

if there are multiple maps one map can be meta for one and another for another, then just the randomness makes you want to have either.

[eager creek]

I remember back in the day I needed to restart my wow character because I didn't know how op the blood elf silence was for pvp.

[mossy ruin]

Yeah, the "meta" doesnt usually matter like one might think in instanced looters. Lots of people just do "stuff," The bulk here is there are too many factors to attribute failure to race, especially here as conjecture, genres dont always translate.

[verbal marsh]

certain areas of maps that are advantages for one, and others that are worse.

I'm surprised thats not already broken down a bit with the class system to you already lol

[eager creek]

I'm not against metas

[verbal marsh]

its not a meta if its simply a strength as opposed to its individual weakness.

[eager creek]

I just don't want my barb to be a tinker fairy kin because that's the optimal race lol

[mossy ruin]

Dwarves could easily have poison resistance and easier time with hearing through stone or someshit LOL

[verbal marsh]

just institutes the need for complex balancing

[placid canopy]

That is a huge point. Without sbmm 90% of the people are probably "play for fun" people

[verbal marsh]

most people didnt even play high roller last playtest

Hopefully they add a 3rd cash tier felt high roller was a bit low brow.

[mossy ruin]

exactly, tarkov is like that, until you go LABs which is high roller, but LABs issue is the PvE pressure tbh, so you need to be ready. High roller isnt as hard in comparison from base game.

[eager creek]

People entering w next to no gear is cringe. 75 g was nothing.

[verbal marsh]

yeah I think once the ai difficulties are balanced that wont happen.

high roller was what 2-3 minutes faster to end, with only elite and death mobs?

[mossy ruin]

agreed, when that happens races could be forced into meta

[verbal marsh]

I like that the new death skeleton had additional combat animations that made it a lil harder tho

i think if it was mostly death level skele's players wouldnt be able to enter with that trash

[eager creek]

@steady cloud stop trolling

[mossy ruin]

I did a decent amount of high roller, whats death level skele?

[eager creek]

Every suggestion is inputting cc info

[mossy ruin]

I was juiced up barb, i 2 shot a lot

[verbal marsh]

black texture = death difficulty

red texture = elite difficulty

[mossy ruin]

but like, are they common, i didnt notice

[verbal marsh]

was maybe 1 every 5 or so elites you run into

skeleton wasnt that common of a mob in my route

[mossy ruin]

same actually

[verbal marsh]

all the other versions of death difficulty were pretty easy and I didnt notice any additional animations

[placid canopy]

The archers that shot 3x were annoying... Died to those a few times not expecting the third shot

And ofc they 1shot headshot in hell

[mossy ruin]

Barb life, never had that happen oof

[verbal marsh]

oh death archers might shoot 3 times

[mossy ruin]

The fear is OP for mobs

[verbal marsh]

also when they impact your shield they shoot fast enough to breach it

they made fear less effective in high roller

people were pk rushing too mugh i suppose

[mossy ruin]

Seemed to still reduce defense enough to oneshot archers with my bardiche or felling axe

[verbal marsh]

doesnt reduce defense, reduces dmg

its good for tanking with warcry for hp boost

take a good 10 hits to down you

[mossy ruin]

hmm, actually it did didnt it.. then idk, shit felt good, im delush though for getting that mixed up

[verbal marsh]

is why double barb group is scary :3

have one with rage and relentless, and the tank with fear and warcry

noone stops you lol

[mossy ruin]

warcry was 25% hp right?

[verbal marsh]

double barb grp I ran chopped the basic norm bosses down like trash in 2 seconds lol

yeah, so your dps barb is still getting all the benefits of your tank and just one shotting

doesnt even need to wear armor and has rage for speed

while your tank is just a beefy sob who shrugs hits n eats babies

[mossy ruin]

Warcry didnt work right in my small testing. I asked my friend to punch me after I shout and when my hp returned to normal the damage was still the same.

[verbal marsh]

its more of a dmg reducer cause it hp is based off total value

so you gain 25% is basically reducing dmg by 25%

by your total hp pool

[mossy ruin]

so like, percentage, i didnt compare it like so, ty

[verbal marsh]

its wierd but it works

[placid canopy]

Shouldn't current hp go down then once it wears off?

[mossy ruin]

i was hoping for bonus 25% temp hp, but thats still a thing i guess

[placid canopy]

% should be same, but actual number down

[verbal marsh]

so you generally have 150 hp, gaining 25% is like 40, so when you take dmg say 15, you're buffering maybe 2-3 dmg with your hp

[mossy ruin]

i was expecting to lose temp hp after it went down, instead of being set to my percentage of previous value

[verbal marsh]

yeah I thought same thing but thats not how it works

[placid canopy]

Ah

Makes sense how it is right now. That's what I expected

[verbal marsh]

so with fear, you take 20% reduced dmg with 25% hp buffer

so say 10 dmg is reduced to 8 and your hp is buffering 25% of that

[mossy ruin]

Well it wasnt intuitive to me from other games, but im glad it works

[verbal marsh]

you basically take 5 dmg instead of 10

• whatever your armor value reduction is as well

so if you've 50% phy armor

[placid canopy]

25% more hp is essentially 20% DR

[verbal marsh]

you take 5, then you take 25% / 20% off that you taking 3

based on your total hp basically

since your hp is so high

[mossy ruin]

so unarmored barb gets more out of it this way

[verbal marsh]

it wont be 25% when the dmg value is over 30 tho

be more like 12.5

[placid canopy]

If fear is 20% DR then the total effective DR of both abilities is 36%

[mossy ruin]

if it was the way i expected myself, armoured barb would benefit more

[verbal marsh]

nah armored barb gets most out of it with armor

you want more reduction lol

so your hp buffer can do more

[mossy ruin]

but the damage you take is more with less armor

[verbal marsh]

otherwise you still losing chunks of hp

[mossy ruin]

so the DR impact is more relevant the bigger the number getting through

[verbal marsh]

losing 50% is stil 50% you just have 25% more for limited time

[mossy ruin]

Yeah but, i mean

[placid canopy]

All the damage reduction is multiplicative

It's not additive so it doesn't matter

[mossy ruin]

Its not actually DR though

[placid canopy]

It's effectively DR

[mossy ruin]

Its damage taken repercentaged after dr

[placid canopy]

That's the same thing

[verbal marsh]

it would be Armor > Fear > Protection > Protection > Hp > 0 , as far as order of how your damage reduction would work.

[mossy ruin]

So a barb with zero armor value gets 25% damage reduced from an attacks damage

[verbal marsh]

you're not likely to die as a tanky barb

I've charged multi archers spam shooting me with a cleric if not for the stagger....

I would have killed em all

KILL EM ALL LUKE

[mossy ruin]

but an armoured barb wouod reduce the damage first, then the total shrug off from the health shift is 25% of the remainder, so its effectively less effective in post damage, relatively

[verbal marsh]

its a dmg reducer, you still take dmg lol

[placid canopy]

The 25% health is just 20% DR

[mossy ruin]

Still relevant damage reduction, just relatively diminished, i guess im being semantical, didnt mean to

[verbal marsh]

all good you must be digesting it : P

the concept is pretty foreign to me too

[mossy ruin]

I meant that for you guys

I think i get it more, although i did fail to see the 25/20 relevance but thats redundant, but ty

[placid canopy]

1/1.25 = .8

[verbal marsh]

effectively its the difference in taking 10 hits instead of 7 to die.

even if you take 5, you're 3 hits safer then if not having it.

get to survive 1 extra hit :3

[placid canopy]

Hard to talk about number of hits you can take cuz everyone has so much variance on their damage

And weapons have damage modifiers on each swing in the chain attack

[mossy ruin]

Im way past how it works, i just think if they come out with better options, its better for an unarmoured barb. Since you comp has 2 its nice to share like u do

[opaque slate]

cope harder azzy 🙂

[verbal marsh]

most weapons are 15-30 dmg barb has 150 hp, if your dr is 50 most cases you die in 10 hits.

not that difficult to calculate.

[mossy ruin]

If you theorycraft with specific example numbers i think youll see what I mean.

[undone grotto]

Love you too evan

[verbal marsh]

longbow stat generally 50, if you're properly armored that stat is basically static

so you can take 3-5 hs

people really underestimate armor lol

taking an extra hit does mean something

just sucks when you run into wizards lol

[placid canopy]

Yeah and then you run into the guy with true dmg on every piece of gear and get 2 tapped lol

[mossy ruin]

Sucks when they run into barbarian

[elder heart]

🧙‍♂️

[verbal marsh]

only good barbs who killed my wizard used hatchets.

😐

[mossy ruin]

this was me as rogue for like 4 hours straight, actually had so much fun. found some unlooted rogue STACKED at the end of a match

[mossy ruin]

I enjoyed dual wield, very fun, smash with secondary

[placid canopy]

The playtest before this one I had like perfect gear on rogue. +true damage and +flat phys on every piece of gear with some different attributes thrown in

[verbal marsh]

I meant throwing hatchets, you're a sitting duck once barb hits you

[placid canopy]

Had an epic battle at the end of the playtest with another group in full legendaries, killed them all, and then died to the boom lol

[mossy ruin]

oh, i see, tbf didnt think the weapon matters too much once ur on a wizard but i still enjoyed dual wield

[placid canopy]

Hitting the dummy for 250 is kind of comical

[verbal marsh]

you would never reach me without a throwing hatchet lol

[mossy ruin]

Excluding felling axe cause it must be bugged, dual wielding was really good feeling and bardiche was enjoyablr whenbi learned to look down to not bonk the ceiling

[mossy ruin]

there there, i often left ranged fights or started them in melee

[verbal marsh]

I loved the throwing hatchet so op

was my only bane also lol

[mossy ruin]

i used them on rangers a lot

never worth the fight though imo

[verbal marsh]

oh yeah they get fustrated when their wasd tracking is wack too lol

[mossy ruin]

omg the lag correction om jiggle movement was horrendous at times

actually teleporting

[verbal marsh]

totally wurf if they think they can down you wit htriple to put an axe in their skull to throw off aim lol

most people didnt realize items were equiv to running with fist lol

[safe gyro]

So, why are the voice channels so limited in size? We've formed large groups that appreciate eachother... Seems a trivial change when we cannot use the server to facilitate actual teamplay within DnD, and tbh, voice channels for groups of all sizes would be wonderful. Im not sure on the bot used or how they did it, but I have been in servers that allow users to create, name, and use voice channels on the fly!

[mossy ruin]

I didnt play early week but my Barb wad TheGodTheGodTheGod, maybe u ran into me once

[verbal marsh]

if you need a bigger channel become a warden or just make your own discord lol

[safe gyro]

I have been in servers that allow users to create, name, and use voice channels on the fly!

[verbal marsh]

nah, I played enough hours toward everyone was forgettable

[safe gyro]

Which are removed when empty

[verbal marsh]

I went the full Vader route in my playstyle.

[mossy ruin]

fair, i dont remember names myself

[verbal marsh]

Oh nice good little jedi learning the ways of the force.

To I am your father, bow down before my great power!

proceeds to cast chain lightning strike

I think I will aim for the wizard name Palpatine next playtest

[mossy ruin]

I fought two wizards once on my Barb near the hallway with shrine buffs and the windows that look into a room with 2 archers and a wraith guarding a hidden lever treasure room

very vader seeming wizards

were they both you ?!

[verbal marsh]

i tried a few wizard groups might have been

Was I trying a young sith?

training

I would probably be ressurecting him like Vader cause he was bad lol

[mossy ruin]

was low gear, very aggresive wizards, practicslly running me down but i had speeeeed shrine zoom

then i turned, ofc

[verbal marsh]

My wizard had this name so it'd be hard to mistake me

[mossy ruin]

hmm ill look for it next time, looks familiar but tons of people with japanese style names ingame

[verbal marsh]

Hrm Ill spout out my names last playtest lets see.

Kinji, Ninomiya, Momoga, Squirrely, Shepherd

[mossy ruin]

was shepherd a cleric?

[verbal marsh]

yeah

[mossy ruin]

i think i murdered u as rogue once

[verbal marsh]

I didnt enjoy playing cleric cause usually teams were bad

didnt like healing people who cant beat skeleton lol

[mossy ruin]

ran past a fighter and was on him l, maybe not though

[verbal marsh]

I wouldnt be surprised

[mossy ruin]

Omg you played with random people?

[verbal marsh]

Yeah I mainly pug

[mossy ruin]

just go solo, random people are so random, literally

[verbal marsh]

yeah but its fun

• noone can keep up with hours i put in neways

[mossy ruin]

idk, i played one pug and went as i figured it would

[verbal marsh]

Being good with bads it being good in general : 3

[mossy ruin]

the game is pretty learnable in 2 days, not too much relevant nuance

[verbal marsh]

cant be a hero if you ain got someone to save.

• its almost like streaming two people are forced to watch yeah xD

[mossy ruin]

true

oh my, oka oka

i gtg bed now though, laters good chat

[verbal marsh]

ciao

[ashen ibex]

Arcane hand is sick wizard suggestion

Trickster sounds pretty evil too 🙂

[opal sparrow]

Of course cuz people dont like over exaggerated suggestions

[placid canopy]

You a bot?

[mortal lichen]

Red is biggest rogue main i've ever seen LMAO

try playing a real class

[sand wyvern]

rouge is a london stabber

[placid canopy]

Nah I just see him type the same thing like once an hour so thought it was on a timer

Only played cleric this last test

[mortal lichen]

@rotund yarrow rogue main?

[placid canopy]

Didn't they already make rogues slower while attacking in a hotfix?

Well dagger specifically

Which is what I assume you meant in the post

Surely not just mad at rogues cuz you died a few times to one

[rotund yarrow]

@mortal lichen nope, but during the playtest i did not see why rouge should have to be slowed down movement while attack, would it even be possible for them to chase someone?

fair point koko, but then again barbarians axe was a one hit to most characters

[mortal lichen]

not wrong.

[rotund yarrow]

and they have a nerf while hitting, no problem with that

[placid canopy]

Think wizard was just better rogue this playtest anyway

Faster, more dps, ranged option, and better invis

[rotund yarrow]

@placid canopy i agree, rogues need to have better stealth

[placid canopy]

Also found it funny that rogues were so bad that streamers who main rogues felt forced to switch off it

Spudhunter talked about it constantly

[rotund yarrow]

pestiliy

[cosmic cave]

Their stealth serves different purposes….. rogues is to set up ambushes and mages is to outmaneuver, i cant believe how many people i have to say this too

I literally play cleric lmao

[placid canopy]

Think koko is just troll

Thought he was a bot earlier cuz he copy pasted the same message 10 times

[rotund yarrow]

i tried most classes last patch, and i switched of rogue pretty fast, mainly because their stealth suck

[cosmic cave]

Like dont get me wrong wizard definitely feels stronger than most, but you also have to realize they have SPELLS which is a huge part of wizards/clerics kit, once we get the rest of the kits in the form of skill trees and other weapons etc, wiz could be fine. They could rework/add skills like: adding magic res while second wind is ticking, or giving a magical protection bubble (of 1 spell) when you eat ranger food. WE DONT KNOW. ITS ALPHA lol. Everything can change

[placid canopy]

Yeah balance also doesn't matter to the devs right now. They said it in their Q&A

[foggy shadow]

When was the last more than 50% accepted suggestion lol

[placid canopy]

There's a few here and there. Most of them are just not good or wildly outlandish though

[mossy ruin]

really? i tried out rogue last two days, felt really good as long as i upgraded my weapon. Dmg wasnt too crazy but i felt like i ran circles round the whole game after maining barb

[placid canopy]

Yeah it's gonna feel way dif, but it doesn't mean they're in a good place. I don't think barb was the best either unless you had a comp for it

[rotund yarrow]

if every class if OP noone is, and it felt like that

[cosmic cave]

Weakpoint is good but i think people sleep on rupture+castillon

[rotund yarrow]

exceept for maybe rogue and cleric

[cosmic cave]

Rupture is guaranteed 20 bleed dmg and castillons swing patterns allow you to easily kite back and slice them when they go to swing for you

[foggy shadow]

The balancing is already really good, maybe just a lack of content for some however

Barb definitely needs more content

[mossy ruin]

I only really had solo experience, barb felt great to me. Had to run smash and avoid bad fights but was fun af

[placid canopy]

Castillons are only good for the third swing

[cosmic cave]

No way

[placid canopy]

They feel bad cuz slow otherwise

[foggy shadow]

I would also love more high tier spells like resurrection

[mossy ruin]

I think castillion felt the best to me as well

[rotund yarrow]

resurerection was in the game

cleric had it

[mossy ruin]

i just ran empty main hand

[opaque slate]

stilleto my beloved 🙏

[placid canopy]

Only if you had good gear or severly gimped yourself on other spells

[cosmic cave]

Castillons first swing is a literal meta breaker, it swings wide from the LEFT . 94% of weapons swing from the right/overhead, which means during that swing animation castillon is perfectly set up to get a slice off and back up, people cant even touch you

[opaque slate]

my fellow rogue gamers what do you think about a rapier parry

[placid canopy]

Or just poke with rapier

[mossy ruin]

ok relax, its range abysmal tbf, but yeah poking

[cosmic cave]

Once people get good at the game you will see castillon rupture kite rogues only im betting rn lol

[placid canopy]

Rupture only better than weakpoint if your gear is bad

[mossy ruin]

Rapier main hand and castilllion dagger off hwnd was my goal, but -ms yuck

rupture does work with throwing iirc

[cosmic cave]

Weakpoint is only better if you can take advantage of the armor debuff, which is usually only on an ambush, meaning they should be dead regardless

[placid canopy]

If you deal 40 damage then weakpoint is the same as rupture, but also debuffs armor and applies the damage instantly on top of multiplying other first strike hits

[cosmic cave]

Keyword is IF

Unless you’re ambushing them theu arent gonna let you swing for free lol

[placid canopy]

Well it just comes down to gear

The higher tier your and enemy's gear, the better weakpoint is

[mossy ruin]

I like rupture early on for what it is

[cosmic cave]

I mean sure, a fully decked out rogue would probably get more value out of a rapier or rondel + weakpoint but for the majority rupture will be more consistent damage

[placid canopy]

Yes rupture is definitely better early game

Castillon is one of the best users of weakpoint too cuz you just swing twice first

Makes the breakpoint way sooner

[cosmic cave]

Castillon fr makes me horny im ngl

Same with flanged mace

[placid canopy]

Idk why it has 50% more damage on the third swing lol

[mossy ruin]

agree to dagger

[cosmic cave]

Flanged mace attack pattern is absolutely wild and i think fighters hella sleep on it

[mossy ruin]

because it's god

[placid canopy]

Flanged mace is op starting weapon

[cosmic cave]

2 overheads and a left overhead swipe???

Hello??

[placid canopy]

And it's fast

[cosmic cave]

Kinda easy to block but the headshot guarantee is insane

[placid canopy]

I always thought the longsword's third strike looked like it would hit the hardest, but it's 40% less lol

[foggy shadow]

I know, I meant similar power-level spells

[mossy ruin]

yeah, POWER WORD DEATH

[foggy shadow]

No hearthstone spells allowed

[muted crag]

Mace and castillion was pretty fun.

[verbal marsh]

the poison damage raises to 10 on third swing so it just seems like more.

[verbal marsh]

it is only less because you're not landing hit in the correct damage zone.

[placid canopy]

@verbal marsh no the weapons have actual multipliers

[opaque slate]

can someone explain why we dont like rapiers being able to parry? i feel like itd add more depth to the weapon

and its not like parrying is op either

[verbal marsh]

because light weapons dont need a parry you already have range and speed

I'm not against idea; Just don't think it'd work in current build maybe after class sheet is revealed.

[placid canopy]

https://darkanddarker.wiki.spellsandguns.com/Weapons wiki of the weapons and their attack speeds/damage

[opaque slate]

playing poke/rapier in last playtest was horrible for me, i was just outsped and they caught up to me and then i had no space

maybe skill issue but it was just inferior to getting in their face and killing them- this is just braindead than tactical play

[cosmic cave]

To play with rapier efficiently you kinda have to be good at movement, even sometimes turning your back to them to move quickly away

[mossy ruin]

Theres no easy, thisll be faster or not scenarios. The scenario you describe is sorta braindead, if you are unsure if you can outspeed, you should try to avoid or ambush.

[opaque slate]

when sprint, barb skill, haste exist 🙂

[mossy ruin]

Yeah, rogue needs to wait for an opening, remember you can throw knives and fist up too.

Lots of people dont use knives, they work well

[opaque slate]

then this will just make rapier outclassed/just dont work

[wary shell]

you arent supposed to be able to straight up fight a barb

[mossy ruin]

I mean, it has the poke still, but there is sprint and rage speed yes

when they are on cooldown you have advantage

Rapier, i read people say its swing is bad or something, idk, moveset is good imo

[lucid root]

Rogue doesn't really dip in and out of melee range like a wizard does right?

Playstyle-wise

[eager creek]

rouge doesnt really make sense as a rapier class

i like how they made it only dagger viable

[opaque slate]

just wanted rapier to actually be an option

adding the parry to rapier would not only be cool asf, itd also have a high skill ceiling (very good)

[white cliff]

It’s suppose to be a rock, paper, scissors type game centralized around party combat of course barb can kill rogue that easily, but a ranger can kite a barb, but a wizard can easily kill a ranger etc etc.

[eager creek]

I dont see the practicality of giving rouge a parry

they should straight up lose fair fights vs bard and fighter

[white cliff]

I just disagree with the parry mechanic if the devs want to keep the combat simple and janky.

[eager creek]

thats why they shouldnt initiate "fair" fights

[white cliff]

They’re clearing testing the waters with mechanics if it’s on one weapon.

[eager creek]

thats a good point too

adding universal parry would lose some charm for the clunkiness of the game

[opaque slate]

thats why i said rapier, not in general

[eager creek]

well thats adding it to every class but wizard lol

[cosmic cave]

This game might be rock paper scissors when it comes to classes but everything can beat everything with SKILL

[white cliff]

Sure, but certain classes have advantages over one another.

Why did people disagree with items having a player history list, and an increase on level limits?

[mortal lichen]

you guys have some heavy rogue takes

[white cliff]

Compared to other people not really.

[opaque slate]

literally my first rogue suggestion

[eager creek]

rouge is an interesting class to suggest for

you can counter by, idk, suggesting something for another class?

o_o

[opaque slate]

all my other ones were barb

[eager creek]

i didnt want it because i think it would make people camp streamers more.

[white cliff]

Well, I can tell this conversations going no where based on that comment.

[opaque slate]

can i get a link, search is wonky

[white cliff]

It would be interesting to have gear touched by said famous stream worth random amounts of gold, I do think it’s hard enough to stream snipe that I wouldn’t be an issue.

#d-and-d-suggestions message

[eager creek]

thats exactly why people would do it even more lol

[white cliff]

#d-and-d-suggestions message

Yeah nothing should do 200% damage ever.

[eager creek]

if you can get paid for famous streamer gear, people will camp them haaaard. right now its for lols, but if you can get compensated for it --

[white cliff]

And he upvoted his own comment, okay….

[eager creek]

I play league and we have a serious problem with that

[white cliff]

I mean leauge has a serious betting problem which ties into the stream sniping.

[eager creek]

yea

putting names on weop could open a market for that here too

imagine people selling xQcs bow on ebay

💀

[white cliff]

Could be annoying. It would be cool just to see a weapon history on how long a piece of loot has existed.

Imagine finding something from now when the game is up for a few years.

[opaque slate]

how bout no names, just the number of players its been through

[white cliff]

Because loot is left in the dungeon all the time.

[opaque slate]

or the time it has existedp

[eager creek]

its def a cool idea, but it will be exploited

[white cliff]

Sure remove the names.

[eager creek]

think about all the people in third and second world countries where that will be there job

[white cliff]

I’d love a stat page for gear.

[eager creek]

yea, number of players is good

they already have a perk for that lol..

[opaque slate]

aight just repost it, maybe ppl will like this idea

well revised of course

[eager creek]

or just nerf mage

👍

[mortal lichen]

👎

[white cliff]

^

Balancing doesn’t work under the guise of make my favorite class stronger.

You’d need to take into consideration how your changes affect the game as a whole.

And fun fact since the game is in play test balancing is super hard because a single spell or class changes the entire game.

[eager creek]

koko is a troll lol

[white cliff]

Then you’re balancing all over again.

Well I mean, no shit.

#d-and-d-suggestions message

This guy and his suggestions.

[plucky crown]

Why am i getting downvoted

[white cliff]

He wants everything to be purchasable with money.

I don’t think I’ve gotten to your suggestion yet.

Still going through the ones I’ve missed.

[white cliff]

Ah I see why.

[opaque slate]

perhaps the phrasing

[white cliff]

Not the phrasing imo.

Ideas that break of fundamentally alter the game in a drastic why are usually downvoted.

[opaque slate]

well if they said id like a wider arrangement of classes, here are some suggestions:

[white cliff]

Allowing every class to use every weapon is one of those.

[opaque slate]

then itd get updooted

[eager creek]

to avoid server reset doesnt make any sense, since they just wipe the server. as for the other one, I think there could be a monk but not the other ones

but i thinking emojid both your posts lol

[white cliff]

People fully enjoy the experience for a month and then the start over to balance it for everyone. It’s you know, the core gameplay loop? Loot and risk said loot.

What you’re suggestion would destroy the game.

And cause an imbalance in real world currency which and historically ruined most games.

Why would I play a game if someone can drop their wallet and be the best in the game. That’s not a skill ceiling, that’s a whaling pit.

[eager creek]

if koko downvotes you, then ik its a good idea

[lucid root]

My God it's turning into reddit

[white cliff]

Three strikes and you’re out. Gave him the benefit of the doubt.

Also @plucky crown they’re planning on adding all of the 3e classes so anything related to classes is kind of redundant at this point.

[tardy smelt]

no warlock

[white cliff]

Why

[lucid root]

I think 3 months per wipe is a little long with the current game state, with all the content out I think it'll be about right

All the official launch content at least

[tardy smelt]

warlock wasn't in 3e. 😆

[white cliff]

True.

Why was that even said then lol.

[fervent crag]

#d-and-d-suggestions message @plucky crown

There’s a reason why they reset everything, it’s either because they removed items or modified things already in game.
This could cause corruption in player files which would end up in you getting a error or a crash while trying to join the next playtest as you’ve got corrupted items or removed items. It would also take the devs a long time to modify everyones player saves to remove or fix items.

So wiping is mandatory.

Edit: i may have misinterpreted your comment as i read it a second time.
It’s a seasonal game, wipes are mandatory still lol.
No one wants to be stomped by a guy who kept all his legendaries after the wipe.

[sacred hill]

all the people suggesting things related to Paying are clueless retards

[muted crag]

Its in Ironmace's mission statement to not be nickle and diming scumbags.

[strange sable]

Yep

[muted crag]

All those people asking to be able to pay extra, it finally happened, theyre desensitized to what the big companies wanted.

[sacred hill]

thats why i havent been playing anything in years

[eager creek]

paying for stats is bad, cosmetics is good

[hushed plover]

Im just reading these suggestions and 😬

[eager creek]

@coarse chasm or just bring in your 5g coin pouches lol?

[sacred hill]

@steady cloud I bet you pay for women

[eager creek]

@analog nest how would you even stop that?

[analog nest]

I don’t know tbh but something needs to be done because I can see it getting aids especially when voice chat comes out

[eager creek]

i can agree it being aids but idk how youd even fix that

[analog nest]

Maybe add some sort of replay system so if people are caught teaming they just lose all their gear and stuff they went in with for that round so it won’t be worth them teaming

[eager creek]

thatd require way too much work lol

even the biggest studio, league of legends, doesnt allocate funds for that

[analog nest]

Yeah probably but it’s going to get aids sooner or later

[eager creek]

id imagine most people would 3 man

but only the truly desperate losers would do groups of 6 and 9

[analog nest]

Oh they will be doing it

[eager creek]

i dont doubt it

[analog nest]

You’ve already got 3 mans teaming with others etc

[loud matrix]

#d-and-d-suggestions message @simple bluff LMAO
Yes, peasants used crossbows. But take a look medieval history and tell me again that crossbows made longbows obsolete.
Not even close bud. You should hit the books again.

[fervent crag]

Oh this is true, i walked into a group of 6 working together while doing high roller with some buddies.
Didn’t record as i quit the match 2 fast to realise.

[eager creek]

damn so aggressive lol

[analog nest]

I don’t know why you all down voted my suggestion tbh I agree I don’t know what they could do at this moment in time to fix it but the problem will be a big one

[eager creek]

well thats why we downvoted

[analog nest]

Right well enjoy getting gang banged every now and then until they do something I guess

[eager creek]

losers will always try to game the system, so mentioning it is moot unless theres a suggestion

a solution*

[eager creek]

nobody disagrees its a problem, its just theres no solution to the problem.

without the studio wasting money on people monitering it*

[analog nest]

How about you send clips in if people are clearly teaming they just get banned?

Only thing I can think of in this moment of time

[fervent crag]

Just report them with video evidence, would get them all ip-banned or hwid-banned from all playtests im pretty sure.

You would ruin all of them

[analog nest]

Probably the best solution atm

[strange sable]

Man

[eager creek]

thats probably the only thing you can do, ya

[strange sable]

I like cross teaming

[eager creek]

3 isnt enough?

[eager creek]

make that a suggestion and ill updoot it.

[undone grotto]

I don’t think people should be banned for teaming I just think something needs to be implemented to discourage it. For example

Give enemies damage / speed / hp buffs if more than 4 people are in x radius from it.

Have it increase per player til the enemies are a real threat and make it unprofitable for people to team in big groups.

It would also make the ai more of a hazard in general

Without punishing two solos who decide to team up or a duo who adopts a random solo they befriend

[strange sable]

That wouldn’t work if teams were fighting

[eager creek]

from a development pov thats hard to accomplish

[strange sable]

It would just think they are teaming

[eager creek]

• rangers would game that system too

[undone grotto]

It would make 3v3 combat harder because you’d need to clear enemies first sure

But having mods needing to manually check every time someone is accused of teaming would be a huge waste of resources

When they could put that time into focussing on removing cheaters and stuff

It’s definitely not the best solution or a means to an end

But it’s a solution at least

If someone has a better one I’m all ears

[outer niche]

thats litterally impossible to implement @undone grotto

[undone grotto]

I don’t think it’s impossible to implement I just think it would be difficult

Plus the more you have to code the more chances stuff will go wrong somewhere else

[outer niche]

how would you decide which ppl get the buff and which wouldnt

[eager creek]

as someone whos dabbled in coding for games its def hard

[undone grotto]

Fix a bug add ten bugs

[eager creek]

• like i said, rangers will just stay out of range for the debuff

[outer niche]

what if your two teamates are in a radius with another two

[eager creek]

and then it will be moot

[outer niche]

literally impossible

[undone grotto]

It would involve some trial and error to find the sweet spot of “this is enough of a hinderence but doesn’t break the game” for sure

But that’s what a playtest is for right

[outer niche]

what if two rogues are invis next to two random players, then you pull up with your tm8 to fight the two visible guys but now you have a buff and they dont?

[undone grotto]

As for rangers, I try to forget they exist for the pain they cause me mentally

[eager creek]

the disconect is you prob dont understand how hard that is to code

like to write the script to make your idea happen sounds like a nightmare

[undone grotto]

I understand how hard it is to code I make plugins for rust

I just am happy to suggest it as someone who doesn’t have to write it

[eager creek]

fair enough lol

[undone grotto]

You spend ten hours fixing something and find out you broke something else

Lmao

All i want is for my ally to be babyleashed to me so he doesn’t keep charging off

Like those kid backpacks with a teather

[white cliff]

@analog nest @undone grotto Why are we trying to fix a non existent problem, I’ve never seen six people team before in my hours of gameplay lmao.

Also buffing AI when six people are close creates a problem for pvp.

[analog nest]

@white cliff it does happen there’s even clips of people teaming on YouTube? It happens plenty

It ain’t about 6 people teaming. There should be no teaming outside of your designated team.

[white cliff]

There’s really no incentive to do that, especially without voice communication.

[strange sable]

Yeah I have never seen two full teams cross team

I have only seen solos cross team which is fine

[white cliff]

I’d probably be more impressed that six people could cooperate with no mics.

And trust each other enough not backstab.

[strange sable]

There is not an issue with solos cross teaming and it just adds more fun to the game

[analog nest]

If you don’t want to play solo find someone to play with? Instead of teaming in game it’s just cheating plain and simple no matter how people chose to view it.

[agile condor]

@analog nest this literally exists, there are only 5 escape portals from Inferno so 1 of those 6 are dead and the others better hope they find all of the portals

[white cliff]

Until the game takes a firm stance or even has an opinion on cross teaming it’s not cheating.

[analog nest]

It’s cheating. Enjoy your day.

[white cliff]

Didn’t know you made the rules but have a nice day, and just a heads up this is the discussion channel to discuss said suggestions.

[eager creek]

what makes you think they arent micd up lol?

[eager creek]

solos is fine. Ive teamed w fellow solo barbs for fun runs

the friendly crouch to a fellow solo is a tip of the hat

[white cliff]

Props if you can get into the same game.

With six people.

[eager creek]

its easy on certain servers

prob not NA

[analog nest]

Choosing not to murder a fellow solo and going on your different paths I’d say is fine

[white cliff]

We tried it on oce play test two.

[white cliff]

No that’s collusion and cross teaming that’s not allowed by your standards.

[agile condor]

Seeing a group and choosing not to fight them is also fine lol

[eager creek]

yes?

[analog nest]

I would say there’s a difference between avoiding a fight and actively working together? But bad players will team and actively work together I guess

[eager creek]

no reason to get all elitist lol

youre shooting yourself in the foot

most people agree 6 people teaming is bullshit. 2 solos teaming is fair game.

[agile condor]

Or people just goofing off, that don't care, aren't looking to PVP, maybe 3 wizards see another group of 3 wizards and they're like OH SHIT this is even more what we were trying to do - 6 wizard time, death to all non-wizards, who knows

[analog nest]

I agree that’s not to bad but if you want to not play solo you can just find a team mate? But yeah

[agile condor]

I'd imagine teaming here would be similar to Tarkov, you can do it, but they can still backstab you and take your stuff lol

Suggestion: Rogue stealth should be passive, allow movement, & require no perks. ~koko

[white cliff]

Just for you, I’m gonna make another one.

[agile condor]

😄

[white cliff]

I don’t even think rogues need a buff but now I’m to convince everyone they do.

Solely out of spite.

[agile condor]

koko forgot how the internet worked for a minute, spare him

[eager creek]

rouge stealth should auto activate when you stop moving

[placid canopy]

Rogues are the weakest class 🙂 (not ironic)

[glacial bridge]

rogues should just always be invisible, have noclip on and godmode

[agile condor]

new rogue weapon: Golden Gun

[loud matrix]

Rogue should not need to spend an ability slot to stealth while you're at it.

[white cliff]

Rogues should have infinite stealth (not ironic)

[eager creek]

idk why koko hates rouges so much when barbs literally slap them

[white cliff]

He’s a troll just ignore him.

[agile condor]

No no no ya'll being played

[eager creek]

i should take my own advice

i said tthat a few hours ago to him

[white cliff]

Nobody was talking about rogues at all.

[agile condor]

Koko actually really wants more rogue buffs & wasn't seeing enough. Their post was merely a challenge to us plebs, to come up with amazing rogue buffs and post them out of spite... but all apart of koko's master plan

[white cliff]

Agreed.

[agile condor]

some 5-head stuff

[placid canopy]

It's all reverse psychology. He's actually a rogue main

Classic toxic rogue main

[agile condor]

you can see our main classes lol

Ranger bruh

[glacial bridge]

yeah you are a ranger

[agile condor]

You got me

[glacial bridge]

and you will never change

its locked in

[agile condor]

I didn't see any future tense in their message lol

I don't know if that's how english works

I'm fine with any buffs or nerfs to other classes, only thing I don't want to see are changes to ranger that would make it less fun

@flint jungle was thinking the same, that competition will definitely hurt it

[flint jungle]

ah a man of culture @agile condor

[stiff imp]

#d-and-d-suggestions message too much info IMO to get a real vote. I like the way you see multi classes by having to do quest line to become another class. Just not the exemple of perks/skills

[eager creek]

yea, i auto downvoted. Way to much text

suggestions should be simple and clear.

[frail quest]

if clerics can buff enemies and pve units then wizards should be able to ignite and invis them

[glacial bridge]

apparently i have to say this every day. NO SUMMONS

automated damage has no place in pvp games

[sick delta]

sorry new to server

[glacial bridge]

lol you're good. thats just the worst change they could make in my opinion

[sick delta]

turrets are in some pvp games, i dont know how it would ve implemented in this, maybe very weak just to distract, but i think you are right

maybe can spawn enemies that attack everyone

[glacial bridge]

waiting for someone to be distracted and loot a chest etc is an opportunity for you to try and close distance. a summoned minion who watches your back while you are distracted is really bad for stealth based pvp

[placid canopy]

Devs have said they are very interested in a necromancer so we'll see how that gets implemented

Not sure how it would be a thing other than reanimated minions

[glacial bridge]

ide rathey they go the Warlock route. Necromancers can do other things than the standard expected skeleton buddy. we'll see

[placid canopy]

Ya idk how it would work in a team either if you wanted to do the team pvp thing people were doing in a tourney

[sonic pendant]

#d-and-d-suggestions message if i crouch at another player and they decide to be friendly, big deal. deal with it. teaming is never going to be a serious problem in a game with random lobbies. get over yourself

[glacial bridge]

i can only imagine the rage if my teammate got hit by a horizontal swing of a summoned skeleton and died

[sonic pendant]

and if there is a game where 8 players manage to make friends and steamroll the server, that's hilarious, and i can't wait for the YT vid. it's not going to happen to you every day.

[lucid root]

I thought the devs were thinking about a necro class?

[sonic pendant]

they are, slate just doesn't want it, but slate doesn't make the rules.

[sick delta]

might be interesting if the player had to control the summons manually, leaving himself vulnerable to sneak attacks

[sonic pendant]

i think it'd be fun as hell, if it were balanced properly

[placid canopy]

Actual cool idea

[white cliff]

There’s a tournament scheduled for valentines day.

[lucid root]

Using a summon like a drone

Like the skull demon drone in doom 3

[vestal thorn]

Balancing summons is going to be hard I think, mainly due to collision. It's going to make a lot of the map areas feel like an absolute cluster and going to annoy a lot of Wizards/Rangers. Seems fun though.

[sonic pendant]

becasue being able to raise one or two skeletons that just don't aggro onto you, would not be some game-breaking power. people ignore the WRAITH while they're in pvp ffs.

[lucid root]

Doom 4 sorry

[placid canopy]

Was talking about summoner class friendly fire and stuff

[lucid root]

If you could control mobs that'd be really strong, if they think you're a regular mob they'll be expecting the same attack patterns

[sonic pendant]

you can already wear a skele skin. nobody was fooled by that last test.

[sick delta]

yeah thats true, but mabe they can have a distinct shine or like a trace to the location of the player controlling them

[sonic pendant]

esp rogues w/ the hidden belt perk. you still stand out

[placid canopy]

I'm imagining some type of control like sova sending out a drone in valorant. Replace it with a dragonfly and you got a summoner

Can't move yourself during it

[sick delta]

yes that would be cool

while you control a summon you cant move and only see what the summon sees, and it could leave a trace to your location so people know its a summon and where you are even if they kill it

it would be like a trade of information(?

[white cliff]

They just added this in hunt showdown, it’s a flying beetle.

[lucid root]

That's kind of different though, they just put the skeleton model over the player rig

If you're using all the skele animations then you could trick some people

[foggy shadow]

So youre telling me those were players and not npcs?

[lucid root]

Which ones

[foggy shadow]

Those skeletons were players wearing a skin apparently

[lucid root]

Lol

[sonic pendant]

the ones that acted and moved like players were players...? the skin didn't let you drag your sword, or do the lazy chop swings, or assemble yourself from a pile of bones on the floor

[foggy shadow]

Ohhh so they werent like new mobs that just have regular movement

[white cliff]

If you’re running fast through a room you’re not going to realize who’s a naked skeleton and what’s an AI though.

[sonic pendant]

sure you can lol. the player skele skins couldnt' carry 1h longswords, and had waistbelts, and usually unique shields

[white cliff]

We just trolling using fighter skeletons with nothing equipped.

Not arguable it’s viable.

Though it is funny.

[cosmic thistle]

Unequip weapon and get rogue perk that hides belt.

[sonic pendant]

there's no empty handed skele mobs

[cosmic thistle]

Then dont say they couldnt carry longswords.

[sonic pendant]

"player skele skins couldnt' carry 1h longswords" no player can carry 1h longsword. maybe read better

only skels can have those

[foggy shadow]

So all those skeletons that had potions and non sword weapons werent mobs

[sonic pendant]

correct

those were players

[foggy shadow]

I thought there were just like smart skeletons

[sonic pendant]

it was a free skin unlocked after a certain amount of accrued 'adventure points'

there was a red and a white skin

same way you got the blue torches or the throat cut emote

[cosmic thistle]

Is it really free if it uses a currency system?

[sonic pendant]

god damn you are one disagreeable person

[cosmic thistle]

Point still stands, people mistook skele players as skeletons.

[sonic pendant]

did it cost anyone money? then it was free.

[foggy shadow]

I thought the blue torches were dropped by the ghost king

[sonic pendant]

nope. just an unlockable skin

[strange sable]

#d-and-d-suggestions message

Idk about darts

I feel like adding something like that nerfs rangers

[foggy shadow]

Thats true, just looking for more flavor than only throwing axes

[strange sable]

Javelins could be strong but one use or retrievable

[strange sable]

Yeah I agree

[foggy shadow]

Javelins are stronger but only one per slot and darts would be maybe like 5 per slot

Yeah 100%

[sonic pendant]

right now the ONLY class that can't attack at range is a cleric, iirc. fighters,barbs have throwing axes, rogues/wiz get knives, rangers get bows obv.. i don't think we need a plethora of new options, but i do think clerics should get something to chuck. unless i'm mistaken. i did max a cleric but i don't recall whether i could throw axes/knives

[cosmic thistle]

I liked the dungeons and dragons javelins where people just stacked their inventory when them and threw them two a turn.

[foggy shadow]

Cleric just needs offensive spells but they do have shields

[minor pond]

Ness really saying other people are disagreeable meanwhile he takes every single chance to argue

[strange sable]

Wizard can use throwing knives?…

[foggy shadow]

Nahh lol

[cosmic thistle]

Judgement and holy light not counting huh?

Not even purification nova? sad.

[foggy shadow]

Lol that might be meta in this game

Just full inventory barb with javelins

[sonic pendant]

obviously discussing weapons, not magic, here. use your context clues, friend. also, blocked.

[cosmic thistle]

Its already meta to place 50 traps in inventory lol

[foggy shadow]

Dear god

[cosmic thistle]

Dang someone has been here for too long./

[strange sable]

Ness chill tf lol

[foggy shadow]

So if the white skeletons that moved faster were players what about the red ones?

[cosmic thistle]

Same thing. There are red NPC skeletons and player ones.

[sonic pendant]

sorry this guy is just so short and rude with people i can't deal with people like that. he's just looking for something to call people wrong about.

[white cliff]

You said cleric was the only class that can’t attack at range.

That’s the context.

That’s not true, what he said was correct.

1 blocked message.

I wonder from who.

We’ll never know.

[cosmic thistle]

😦

[sonic pendant]

i also said wizard have knives. i can see how i could have clarified further, but i feel like that was enough context under the topic of 'throwables' that i was responding to

[foggy shadow]

So some skeletons were players and there was this thing called ‘adventure points’…

I buy the adventure points thing but those were definitely mobs

[cosmic thistle]

Yeah. It was the barebones verison of a cosmetics shop

[fair copper]

What if they added in a kata-

[white cliff]

Your as blind as that Fox 🦊

[cosmic thistle]

Most were mobs, some werent.

[strange sable]

Did you not see the emotes and skeleton skins in the shop lol

[cosmic thistle]

I have a feeling they either didnt play much or not at all. They joined discord 10 days after playtest ended.

[fair copper]

I got everything besides the red skeleton

[foggy shadow]

So then how can you not tell the skeleton players and mobs apart?

[cosmic thistle]

Same.

[strange sable]

Maybe left and joined

[sonic pendant]

did you play the game?

[foggy shadow]

The players literally stand differently

[white cliff]

When you give suggestions on the game without ever playing the game.

[cosmic thistle]

Considering the amount of bans I wouldnt be suprised if they got banned just for asking the questions they are asking now.

[white cliff]

When you’re running through a room at a glance they are visually the same.

[strange sable]

Mine says Jan 3rd because I left the discord to try to escape my dark and darker addiction

[white cliff]

There skeletons.

A skele-ton of confusion.

[foggy shadow]

I thought those were just new skeletons but i could still tell them apart

[cosmic thistle]

Lmao so many do that its insane.

[cosmic thistle]

If they actually add skeletons that move around like that in the game. It would be terrifying.

Rare rogue skeletons that just charge up to you, preemptively stabbing in your direction.

[foggy shadow]

Yeah i thought they just made the game even harder

But they were just players

[cosmic thistle]

The game will get much harder dont worry.

lmao the "remove rogues, not realistic" suggestion. As if wizards chucking fireballs and clerics blasting people with pillars of light are realistic classes.

[foggy shadow]

If only there was a way for me to equip the exact same weapon as a skeleton mob and enter the same standing animation

[opaque slate]

i wonder who posted that

[simple bluff]

i know a late answer but they literally did since traning to use long bow effectively took years while u can learn how to use a crossbow effectively in few weeks this lead to armies losing valuable archers since they cant be replaced hence the years of training, while every dead peasant was replaced by another without problem

[foggy shadow]

I could really trick people that way

[cosmic thistle]

Playing enough dark and darker should give you the posture for it.

Im a cleric main dude.

[foggy shadow]

Play skeleton in game—> become skeleton irl

This is why the game has been free

They want to turn us into skellies

[cosmic thistle]

To avoid all of the legal liability lol

[foggy shadow]

This is like mkultra 2.0

[white cliff]

1 blocked messaged.

2 blocked messages.

[opaque slate]

ong

[foggy shadow]

bussy

[lusty wren]

TImeout evasion 😄

[lucid root]

#d-and-d-suggestions message
🤔

I didn't suspect a troll until the rainbows part

[loud matrix]

They literally didn't. Most medieval armies utilized both.
The weapon that replaced both of these were firearms once they became good enough, and even that took them about 600/700 years of technological refinement.

Bows and Crossbows have inherent advantages over each other that make both weapons fulfill different roles. They had different penetration power, effective range, maximum range... so saying that crossbows replaced bows is like saying shotguns replaced sniper rifles.
And even with firearms... sure, you can have a lot of guys trained with an AK in a short time.
A well-trained sniper is still worth the extra money depending on the situation.

Crossbow use varied greatly depending on country, type of engagement and other factors.
Try using a crossbow on horseback, for example. It won't work well. That's why cavalry based armies (most famously the huns) tended not to utilize crossbows much, if at all.
China had repeating crossbows as early as 200AD. Surprisingly, though, through its history of use in China, it saw more use in home defense than in warfare.
Medieval England was famous for its longbowmen. Crossbows were used alongside those, of course, but the English per general rule preferred archers.
Meanwhile Ancient Rome - despite having access to both technologically - didn't utilize either much in warfare because it didn't suit their doctrine. Roman doctrine is strange, highly specific and its own topic, though.

There's of course more examples and there's also examples of armies that overall preferred the crossbow over the bow, but very few armies in Medieval times and before then completely shunned one in favour of the other.

[lucid root]

I'm pretty sure the outside map is going to be dark too just a heads up

[mortal lichen]

can you explain me why dungeons should always be dark?

any source for your statement

[lucid root]

Which one

[serene snow]

outside map and dungeon should be the same map. no loading inbetween

[lucid root]

The title of the game

[loud matrix]

Who's gonna keep all those torches lit?

[mortal lichen]

@granite plinth @green dust are you guys transphobic?

or just straight up racists

please elaborate your downvotes on #d-and-d-suggestions message

[next snow]

Reddit typing style.

[green dust]

lol

[mortal lichen]

I was really hoping that the community of dark and darker would not be filled with transphobs and racists like they are everywhere on the itnernet

[lusty wren]

Every class having access to a reliable ranged option will destroy the game. Every single fight will devolve into a ranged stand off

[lucid root]

Please go troll in general, not here

[green dust]

sue me

[mortal lichen]

I will have a word with the admins about this

[loud matrix]

I wouldn't know, don't use it.

[lucid root]

A black paladin would be cool though

[lusty wren]

You choose your own gender, is that not good enough? I dont get it

[lusty wren]

This is so ignorant

[lucid root]

Maybe I just want a black pally because of d2 🤔

[mortal lichen]

You are ignorant for spitting into the face of every trans person

You are disrespectful and should be cancled

[lusty wren]

Troll

[mortal lichen]

I am shocked that the admins of the Dark and Darker discord allow this kind of behavior

[lusty wren]

You can ping wardens if you have an issue

[granite plinth]

xD

Just trolling mate

[mortal lichen]

<@&988703997378584596> i have issues with this transphobic coimmunity

[granite plinth]

Relax

[placid canopy]

Medal and koko been trolls all day

[green dust]

what are the genders in GAMES? cut yourself below the waist what you want, build up boobs in real life, meet guys and sleep with moms, leave the games alone!

[mortal lichen]

now you should really be banned for this statement

I am shocked

That in 2023 people still are so close minded

🏳️‍⚧️

[blazing vapor]

Drop the discussion please, this isn't the place for this topic.

[lucid root]

Proxy clutched it

[white cliff]

Remember when that one warden said they where handling the trolls in the suggestions. I remember like it was yesterday, because it was.

[lusty wren]

😄

[lusty wren]

Do you have me blocked? 😄

[lucid root]

I thought we did pretty good of not feeding the troll, idk 🤷‍♂️

[blazing vapor]

@mortal lichen You have received a timeout. Take some time to clear your head and come back with a less baity attitude.

[lusty wren]

Thank you!