suggestion-discussion

[jagged thunder]

or two pirece two slassh idk

[sudden fractal]

red rarity gear, with special names and 3d models, they have the same default stats as purple items but have more additional stats alongside 1 negative stat

[verbal marsh]

nah it would just be tied to protection potion and limit players to single protection use and immunity, 15 protection + arcane immunity, 20 protection + lightning immunity, 25 protection + fire immunity ext.

[vestal thorn]

I'm not really serious about it. 🤣 It'd probably be too open to abuse or like you said very restrictive. Be fun to see what happens with scrolls though. It's a very interesting game concept.

[jagged thunder]

if youre swinging those types of weapons the back ends should still do damage on contact so players too close behind you get hit

[surreal jasper]

Hmm yeah that would be interesting but I feel like once you leave you shouldn't keep them, only being able to use them in that instance

[timid pulsar]

guys imagine imagining in an imaginitive world inside of an imagination

[sudden fractal]

so lets say red sword, some goofy name like "demon slasher" same attack pattern as longsword, does around 45dmg
+3% magic dmg
+1 all attributes
+0.8 movement speed
-1 knowledge

[opaque shore]

😂 I get it, I suggested a 5s immortal last stand perk for Barbarian

[sudden fractal]

its all in le head

[verbal marsh]

very imaginitive

[sudden fractal]

maybe maybe, but i feel like having them only have dmg stats of purples would make it balanced enough to be able to take out of dungeon

[vestal thorn]

/drool

[verbal marsh]

I wouldn't be against a dying swing perk, when you die your death doll always falls forward allowing one last swing.

Then if you have the 10% heal perk you pop back up if you kill em lol

[carmine current]

even 1 sec of immortality would give you enough time to kill another player. 5 secs would prob be enough to kill an entire squad of players.

[surreal jasper]

Maybe also having the mechanic of it being cursed, Like bound till death and then when death occurs it destroys itself

[sudden fractal]

cool idea, but maybe a bit much

[opaque shore]

Yeah I didn't think of balance when making a goofy ahh suggestion like dat

[surreal jasper]

Makes me thing of the enchantment in minecraft

[sudden fractal]

i wish we could send screenshots

[verbal marsh]

Dying swing perk is actually a really good idea @opaque shore just fix the details : P

[lucid root]

@timid pulsar delete all the classes

[timid pulsar]

facts an add new classes with guns

[jagged thunder]

muzzle loaders

[verbal marsh]

I think barb in dnd have a retribution perk for getting off one last swing ill have to look hrm

[jagged thunder]

give barb dodge

[sudden fractal]

give barb a charge?

🤔

[lucid root]

And let's call it pubg, wait NOOOOO (and so the cycle continued, fortnite ensued shortly after, bringing a great depression of gaming, there is no hope)

[jagged thunder]

remove circle keep bugs

[opaque shore]

Give Barbarian a rocket launcher that insta kills players

[jagged thunder]

themselelves included since theyre firing indoors

[surreal jasper]

Should I edit the suggestion at all? Like adding the items as a thing to recieve instead?

[sudden fractal]

if u want

[jagged thunder]

add dismember on rocket launcher kills

[verbal marsh]

Looks like dnd barb relentless rage allows you to fight while dead.

if you manage to get a kill you're healed

starts at lv 11

[lucid root]

At negative health right?

[verbal marsh]

nah just allows you to fight through grevious wounds so yeah you can go negative

[jagged thunder]

so dot

[verbal marsh]

so guess if you heal for 10% on a kill if they dmg you beyond it you'd still die.

[lucid root]

#d-and-d-suggestions message
Suffering through early game is the training

Prepares you for all that dying you're about to do

[verbal marsh]

Maybe just give a perk called Relentless Rage, but have it be a dying swing instead that if you've the 10% perk as well you can survive death lol

[jagged thunder]

what if you dont die to dot or a killing blow, any other contact after is death and if you dont get a kill you die if you do you get 10%hp and die if its not enough to cover the initial killing blow

[opal sparrow]

I guess I could see that but when I think about its just a matter of warming up, I understand aswell that the waiting area is that type of warming up but when I queue I tend to be in the waiting area for about 5 seconds

[verbal marsh]

yeah is why I suggest it just being a dying swing, cause you essentially cant afford any more dmg unless that swing kills someone.

[opal sparrow]

Dont even know if I hit my arrows because there is no indicator if I hit it or not, maybe just for QoL

[verbal marsh]

It sounds like fun cause most cases when you die as barb you tend to think you'd win if you got one more swing xD

[jagged thunder]

give rogue dodge

[lucid root]

Yeah I hope they make a persistent tavern a thing, you have like tavern channels and you can just walk around and test damage on dummies, play some gambling or something.

[verbal marsh]

omg you're suggesting in tavern gwent?

[spice pawn]

give rogue illusion scroll that lets him temporarily transform into a targeted creature/player. thinkin' Team Fortress 2 spy action

[verbal marsh]

fight in dungeons to collect the cards

[jagged thunder]

tavern dice/cards/darts w/ gold gambling

[opal sparrow]

Lmao why do people hate practice tool? People dont want to warm up before a match of insta dying?

[verbal marsh]

cause practice tools promote more tryhards to try harder.

[opal sparrow]

Dying and losing your loot promotes more tryhard wdym

[lucid root]

I don't know about dueling or ai practice, just damage testing is fine

[verbal marsh]

pft get out there and give me more lewt wdym?

[jagged thunder]

give cleric "Find the Path" skill to locate where next downportal will appear or where the next zone will be

[opal sparrow]

Ok? Not even a good reason to discard damage practice.

[jagged thunder]

give cleric slay living

[spice pawn]

they should add a virtual great hall library that's loaded with actual real-world problems. when players submit actual solutions that are at least semi-viable, get special currency for sweet cosmetic upgrades

[verbal marsh]

thats what playtest servers are for; avg player doesn't need to preform that.

[verbal marsh]

they need confessional's in the taverns that only priest can go into on one end nod nod

[jagged thunder]

this test is for the devs to check their mechanics, its not the game. numbers are gonna change with the animations and content

[white cliff]

Why would this be in a video game though?

[spice pawn]

or wire up some special laboratory where players can remote login and control factory gear/arms. it'll be like real-world Amazon auto-turk. after you've done X hours of unpaid remote-presence robotic control labor, you get some in-game currency for cosmetics.

[verbal marsh]

it says on his forehead, do not help him create an app.

[white cliff]

Why would this be in a video game though? The sequel.

[verbal marsh]

Jerry never listens >.>

[royal talon]

he memeing bro

[white cliff]

Did I stumble into the meme channel?

My bad in that case.

[royal talon]

idk man im just here to do this over here, and some of this over there

[verbal marsh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYb87urhUYk&ab_channel=R1ckM0rty

[surreal jasper]

@sudden fractal Thank you for making a suggestion, I couldn't be bothered to do what you just did haha

[sudden fractal]

#d-and-d-suggestions message can u guys check out my new suggestion n lemme know what u think? thanks :)

[sudden fractal]

ahahahaha dw :p

i got too much time on my hands rn

[surreal jasper]

You did it better than I could've

❤️

[sudden fractal]

[surreal jasper]

[surreal jasper]

You should link my suggestion in yours too to make people go to it

[sudden fractal]

ah i thought it was still quite close to mine, didnt realise there have been so many more suggestions in that time

still just a little scroll, also dont think i can edit suggestions :p

[surreal jasper]

You can

Do .edit 1516969 and then copy and paste what you already have and then add a little extra to it

You don't have to though haha

[sudden fractal]

its only 5 posts apart i think its fine hahaha

[surreal jasper]

No worries

[surreal jasper]

Thank you for crediting me btw haha

[verbal marsh]

I was thinking, they should add rogue / wizard tools that allow you to manipulate exit portals to be reusable for extraction.

[soft relic]

#d-and-d-suggestions message

Regarding this, I would rather the devs be able to put their time fully toward development and get the game more fleshed out than it is now, rather than having to constantly take breaks from game design to deal with server issues and other administrative issues.

[verbal marsh]

It would be a lot more convenient to simply find 1 or 2 portals rather then 3 if you had a rogue or wizard who could manipulate one to be opened twice.

[lucid root]

Also people would get too used to how the game is, when I think they're still in a position right now of making big changes, so people would be like "stop ruining the game it was perfect last patch!"

Better to just work in peace ya know

[verbal marsh]

Maybe to have it so if wizard opens gate the gate remains open for 2 seconds for multiple party members to enter, would be cool since they have slower interaction speed as well.

[royal talon]

what if wizards could get full sleeve tattoos too

that would be sick af

[verbal marsh]

then if rogue lockpicks they can open previously opened portal to follow a player, imagine having an enemy player start in same rool lol

I'd imagine the Gate spell would be the wizard version very costly T9 but garantees full party exit, and the rogue one to be arcane trickster possibly just the ability to not close stone when opening gate.

[wintry forge]

People have been suggesting that I haven't had any good suggestions. I just looked through my suggestions, and most of the ones that got down voted didn't completely get down voted. I've also had about a dozen suggestions that got up voted.

[lucid root]

What if there was a 'send away' portal stone mechanic, so before a portal is opened you can send the stone back down and it respawns somewhere else on the map

Trash or nah?

[verbal marsh]

well I'd imagine stones use up a shard of dungeon magic to be opened so wizard could supply that themselves rather then use up the stone, and the thief would just manipulate the arcane for RP purposes

which could lend to a detect magic spell being useful for guiding you to a nearby stone.

else it could just detect a skeleton mage if one is still alive and closer then a stone lol

There are messages indicating deaths and stone appearances which is inexplicable.

Who and what are broadcasting these messages hrm

Perhaps it is just the shifting of the dungeon as it occurs

[lucid root]

A map of rotating rooms would be neat, probably not worth the hassle to make though

Puzzle map kind of

[verbal marsh]

That would be cool

[lucid root]

Random chance of shrine in your spawn? Maybe a double chest spawn, one on each side of the door

[sudden fractal]

borg my guy why didnt u like my suggestion :(

[lucid root]

Which one

Red gear?

[sudden fractal]

ye

||of course Suggester downvoted it lul||

[lucid root]

One of those maybe later things I guess, seems like they need to rework current gear

[sudden fractal]

i see i see

so u dont see anything fundamentally wrong with the suggestion?

[lucid root]

I'll change it to thinking emoji 🤔

[sudden fractal]

aw thanks <3

[lucid root]

Someone said corrupted gear too which sounds interesting too, kind of falls into your debuff stat category, but was a little different

[sudden fractal]

o i didnt see that

[rose sandal]

Some people will be dealt with for negative/rude behavior and comments towards others suggestions. Everyone’s suggestions are all taken into account and looked at. Just stay positive, ignore the negative, and keep up with the great suggestions! ❤️

[white cliff]

I think reds already exist in the form of uniques.

[sudden fractal]

we have reds?

[white cliff]

Uniques.

[sudden fractal]

but i mean

are they red?

[white cliff]

They’re tan.

[sudden fractal]

tf

ive never seen a tan before

[white cliff]

They have five stat roles.

Instead of four.

[lucid root]

The color is important damnit!

[white cliff]

It’s like the color of a gold coin.

[sudden fractal]

???

[rose sandal]

That’s what mining the ore was for. After getting so much ore, you can craft into ore powder. And trade for red items, with selected traders

[sudden fractal]

do u have any images of them?

[sudden fractal]

but arent those purple?

[white cliff]

I mean the armor you make is purple.

Somewhere in the share content there’s a photo.

[lucid root]

So wait which gear categories couldn't you get in the test?

[rose sandal]

Nope red’s

[sudden fractal]

they look pretty purple to me ngl

like the name tag is purple

not the item itself

[rose sandal]

My mistake, the ore color was red 😅😅

[sudden fractal]

hahahaha

ive also never seen these "unique" items you guys mentioned?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHKkDcj0f7E&ab_channel=SoBadStrange

o shit

from the 1st playtest tho

[lucid root]

Thought you couldn't get legendaries or unique yet

[sudden fractal]

we can get legendaries

gold rarity

but ive never seen tan items before

but they did apparently exist in the first playtest

[lucid root]

Ruby silver what is that o_O

[sudden fractal]

however i wouldnt rly call it unique, its just better than gold gear

no unique name or 3d model

[sudden fractal]

did u play last playtest?

[lucid root]

No

I mean this last one I did

[sudden fractal]

yeah

[lucid root]

I didn't play any of the others

[sudden fractal]

playtest 3

the last playtest

not last as in final one, just the most recent one

u didnt see rubysilver when u played?

[lucid root]

No :I

[sudden fractal]

basically it was the first ore u can mine, and with it u can craft rubysilver armour

its bright red, purple rarity and has 4 additional stats

also super high defense

[lucid root]

Oh...I just sold my ores I didn't even know you could craft with them lol

[sudden fractal]

so u did see rubysilver ore!

[jagged thunder]

its not really crafting its trading with merchants

[sudden fractal]

well, kinda

[jagged thunder]

tasks was it called?

[sudden fractal]

u just craft it with the merchants

it was under the "services" tab

[jagged thunder]

i always died if i brought a pickaxe

[sudden fractal]

xd

i wanted to craft some rubysilver armour but then i realised how much i actually needed

shit was insane

[jagged thunder]

at around3-6 ruby per ore i didnt even bother after a while i just wanted to sell it, seemed too difficult easier to find it in downportals

[sudden fractal]

some guy got full ruby silver drip, said it cost him around 20k gold in total

everyone in the lobby just worshipped him for his drip lmao

nobody pvp'd him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnIraBLCFEo&ab_channel=Damood

[white cliff]

Takes about three hours to farm.

[sudden fractal]

that sounds wrong

[lucid root]

For one item?

[sudden fractal]

it takes so much longer

for the full set?

[white cliff]

Full set on rogue.

#d-and-d-suggestions message

<@&988703997378584596>

[sudden fractal]

how much rubysilver is that in total

[lucid root]

Big yikes

[sudden fractal]

funny guy

[white cliff]

Anyways, last suggestion is about a solo leaderboard. Seems redundant as they’re trying to do as much as possible to avoid a solo queue and solo play.

[dense girder]

@white cliff what was this ping for

[white cliff]

It was handled.

[sudden fractal]

racist suggestion

[dense girder]

Nice

[lucid root]

We may be scum here, but not like that

[sudden fractal]

ay mayn speak for urself xddd

[lucid root]

Solo leaderboard seems fine, someone suggested it couple days ago

Keep the overall too just to see how you stack up against teams

Alright now he's just antagonizing the mods

[jagged thunder]

leaderboard bounty?

[white cliff]

I mean if you think about it, the leaderboards are already solo.

They only count for you, ie boss kills.

[lucid root]

I mean that one's not really bad just antagonizing

[white cliff]

Ah he removed the killing part.

So I guess it’s not racist anymore.

Only took him two tries.

[opal sparrow]

My guy trying to be woke lmao @viral lodge

[blazing vapor]

That one can stay up, even with the remark at the end. We know why the others were deleted 👍

[white cliff]

Yeah, I figured he wasn’t editing them.

Sorry about the ping.

[blazing vapor]

Never be worried about pinging us 🙂

[lucid root]

He's playing 'dodge the banhammer'

[fossil wraith]

to be fair, he could just say character customization..

[white cliff]

That’s probably a subject we should avoid though, fantasy has always had a long conflict between actually ethnicities and races inside of DnD or said rpg.

[lucid root]

The mods occasionally taking a break from the war zone of general chat to come visit us 🥲

Oh God I switched to general for a second and regretted it

[royal talon]

add a fast food restaurant at the center of the map where players can place online orders AND orders in the store

[lucid root]

Mcdonalds in DaD?

[royal talon]

idgaf im starving brother

[lucid root]

My wizard do be lookin too skinny

[sudden fractal]

man i wanna play so i can try cleric

[white cliff]

Best class.

[lucid root]

Until bard comes out

[lucid root]

#d-and-d-suggestions message
Protect item prayer from runescape 😂

[wintry forge]

@cerulean cypress
So, for this suggestion, if people play as anything but cleric, they'd need to team up with a cleric to remove cursed items?
#d-and-d-suggestions message

[ocean pollen]

why does nobody like my gif Idea 😔

[wintry forge]

I don't understand it.

[ocean pollen]

https://tenor.com/view/capivara-gif-26305606

these

like gifs

[wintry forge]

Where do you want gifs? In game? I think people don't know what you're asking for.

[lusty wren]

Instead of emotes a gif just floats across the screen

😄

[lucid root]

The spy spray meta in tf2

[lusty wren]

Gearscore is just as bad as SBMM

if not worse

gear is not a good metric for matchmaking in any way shape and or form

[lucid root]

Here we go again

[wintry forge]

What about matchmaking based on total in-game time?

[lusty wren]

While that is at least something closer to a valid metric, I do not like any form of that in DaD some of the best times I had in this game was punching up

[north snow]

Any cleric mains enjoy actively using a weapon other than Flanged Mace? Morning Star maybe?

[brittle patrol]

any kind is bad imo

[vagrant stone]

i dont like long queue times

[spice pawn]

what if they add Portal gun 2-way portal effect as a spell-scroll (walk through, melee/spell/ranged can fly through the portal)

[ocean pollen]

No discord

[sonic pendant]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/381625548344131594/1053779092153061396/image.png i found these unique boots in a regular, non-high roller b2 chest during the dec playtest. only unique gear i saw the whole test. sold em for what you see here. but yea, they were in the game, just a lot more rare than the oct/nov playtest.

[agile condor]

#d-and-d-suggestions message - I'm not against this suggestion but in terms of prioritizing this compared to other features, why? Who Cares? If you're not in high-roller, you can see the number of portals that spawn and just count them in the chat log if you really want.... If you're in hell, what - only 2 portals spawn? Someone's ded lol or like "no it's random between 4 & 5...? again why, who cares? If you're in High-Roller, you can't even see the portals that are spawning in chat, so you're saying they're running all over the rest of the circle and counting the portals, who cares? What, are they going to stop someone from getting to a portal or something... if they've explored the remaining circle they'll probably come across the other players and just fight them anyways... idk, what's the point of this? @wintry forge

[wintry forge]

Are you saying there isn't a set number of portals now?

[agile condor]

Did you read what I said?

[sonic pendant]

i'm pretty sure he's an elegant troll, at this point. he's very subtle, but it's like all his suggestions are designed to be wildly distasteful to anyone who knows the game

[wintry forge]

<@&988703997378584596>

[sonic pendant]

<@&988703997378584596>

[agile condor]

Really? lol

[lucid root]

That was random

[agile condor]

That guys account was hacked

[sonic pendant]

what? i shouldn't have reported "eboobs"? lol some horny kid

[agile condor]

Talking about Suspense's @

[sonic pendant]

oh i've had him blocked for a while now

[agile condor]

LOL

He's trying to get you banned

[wintry forge]

<@&988703997378584596>

[sonic pendant]

ohhhhh i see it lmao what crazy timing

[agile condor]

I feel like he's trying to just get people in here banned

[sonic pendant]

i mean he can be upset but it's my opinion. and it's valid. look at his suggestion history. he's at like -1000 across all of his suggestions. i'm not bullying, i'm pointing out facts.

[rose sandal]

Nothing really broken there. But Ness if you believe someone to be a troll, please refrain from acknowledging them and not to encourage them. Just let it go and wardens will handle it

[vagrant stone]

true

if you ask me, suspense is the one causing problems out of anyone, and the fact that he would try to get other people banned for frivolous reasons is a big red flag to me.

[wintry forge]

Are you suggesting I'm a troll too? I'm tired of people suggesting I'm a troll and pointing to my down voted suggestions, and just because they don't like my suggestions. A lot of people have been making rude comments to me because they disagree with my suggestions.

[wintry forge]

<@&988703997378584596>

[rose sandal]

There is nothing wrong with Pinging Wardens if you believe something is wrong.
Obviously do not abuse it but do not be afraid or discouraged to ping us at anytime to clear a situation. As I did just then

From how this situation looks like its turning into, Ill just say drop it. No one has broken anything as of right now. So lets please try and keep it that way ❤️ and go your separate ways if you do not have anything nice to say about each other.

[lucid root]

I'll be the villain if that's what it takes, time to make some skill based matchmaking suggestions

[sonic pendant]

https://tenor.com/view/curse-aukerman-comedy-fist-in-air-shaking-gif-5620082

[sonic pendant]

you either die a hero, or ...

[wintry forge]

If anyone doesn't have anything polite to say to me, please don't tag me or anything in your comments.

[agile condor]

Cause I love data the numbers so far this year are 244 Ups and 1877 Downs

[lusty wren]

Like in total?

[agile condor]

No - a specific subset

[lusty wren]

OHHHHH

[lusty wren]

Now do me!

Wait

ya we will ride with that

[agile condor]

Your wish is my command

[lusty wren]

Spoiler i havent made one

[agile condor]

RIP lol

[soft relic]

I never actually looked at mine, but you convinced me. Looks like my suggestion on cleric weapon attack speed wasn't taken well. 😄

[lusty wren]

I am here to bash other peoples suggestions not my own

[agile condor]

Looks like in total, you're at 325 up and 41 down (assuming you vote your own up) ~89% Upvotes

[soft relic]

Better than I would have expected lol

[sonic pendant]

yea that's really good. i'm sure mine's worse. do me, do me! (and i do not upvote my own posts, that's silly)

[agile condor]

#d-and-d-suggestions message top performer

[soft relic]

I honestly suspected people would disagree with me on a lot more things. I like discussing game mechanics lol

[agile condor]

Maybe admins can add like a counter of ups/downs to our discord profile or a channel that counts these so that we can get a general sense of the type of suggestions people have

[sonic pendant]

#d-and-d-suggestions 🙂

[agile condor]

I mean that counts all by discord user

[sonic pendant]

i was playing solo and had a few 'help the solos' kind of suggestions that tanked, early on. but i've since decided that the game is built for groups and anything that helps solos only makes groups more OP so... solo is just hardcore mode, and we've all got to live with that

[agile condor]

124 Up, 198 Down ~39% Up
Worst performers
#d-and-d-suggestions message
&
#d-and-d-suggestions message

Best Performer - #d-and-d-suggestions message

[sonic pendant]

can we make you a bot? this is interesting af

[agile condor]

😄

That's what I was saying

Admins would add

[sonic pendant]

ok now do everyone, go!

[agile condor]

There's probably a more efficient way to do this rather than like I am, manually lol

There have been ~7500 suggestions in the past month alone

[wintry forge]

Congrats on getting all the up votes, but why does everyone care about the up/down votes so much? It's not like the devs are going to implement every suggestion that gets lots of up votes, and they're not ignoring all the suggestions that get lots of down votes. They're reading all of them. They make their own decisions.

[agile condor]

Well, if they implement one of your suggestions you get to know what % of the community loves you or hates you for that suggestion 🙂

[minor pond]

DFKM @visual goblet is @wintry forge and hes still getting mega downvoted 🤣

[agile condor]

Doubtful, both accounts are like 2+ years old

[unreal canopy]

People really don't like his suggestions

[feral fossil]

how can you play the game or did they shut it down for the time being

[agile condor]

In feb

[wintry forge]

Also, have you noticed that there're typically less than couple hundred people who vote on the suggestions? But I think I read that a million people played the playtest. The votes don't mean much.

[unreal canopy]

It's offline, back feb 6 pending new announcement

[feral fossil]

thanks

[agile condor]

Damn, our votes don't matter - RIP

[unreal canopy]

I did read some fun suggestions tho.. so it matters at least in the regards that it anused me

[wintry forge]

I didn't say the votes don't matter, but hardly anyone's voting.

[agile condor]

I dunno, you got to 125 votes on this one
#d-and-d-suggestions message

[inland path]

so why are people so against the idea of adding parry to more weapons? seems like it would make combat less about having more buffs and pressing the m1 button while running at them

[wintry forge]

I've had plenty of suggestions that were up voted. You're just looking at the negative.

[wintry forge]

And that's 131 votes out of a million?

[white cliff]

They want the combat to be simple, talked about in the last QnA.

[vagrant stone]

so parry only when you dont have a shield in your hand?

[agile condor]

That's why we look at the percentage, the subset here would be users on the discord server that have viewed & reacted to your suggestion. Your argument would need to be why this population is not representative of the whole. Which may be true, but that's where you should start rather than suggesting we poll every user on your idea.

[mossy venture]

an emote that drops your inventory

[verbal marsh]

I've updated my suggestion, feel free to further downvote it :3

[wintry forge]

Maybe the ones that aren't voting on suggestions aren't as "hardcore", or aren't as passionate about the game, or they want to spend their time doing other things instead of rating suggestions, etc.

[agile condor]

Link?

[verbal marsh]

That sounds like wurk D:

[sonic pendant]

well how am i supposed to downvote you when i can't see your post? 🙂

[agile condor]

Totally agree, so then your posts are more for the casual audience? #d-and-d-suggestions message

[verbal marsh]

why is discord so laggy for meh hrm

[sonic pendant]

i know people like the simple combat, i'm one of them, but we already havve a parry/riposte system in game, it's just that only like 3 weapons use it, and i feel that's a wasted combat mechanic. a lot of "successful" suggestions comes down to wording, i probably didn't word my position clearly enough

[sonic pendant]

close and reopen. this server slows down after a while. it behaves almost like a game with a memory leak. i know that's why we have 300 fixed voice channels, instead of the "create a channel" button like most servers; the log files for so many creations were slowing the server down a lot. i think any server with this many users suffers the same. i could be wrong about specifics, but close and reopen fixes the latency for me.

[agile condor]

Lol @mossy venture rejected RIP - go to #1048762118255673428

[agile condor]

So what would be the purpose or expectation here? Kind of like a, "Ahh, don't kill me, hands ups, here's all my stuff?"

[verbal marsh]

yeah i just tried turning off hardware accel and logging in here that was a mistake lol

[mossy venture]

exactly

[agile condor]

Could be funny I suppose lol

[sonic pendant]

#d-and-d-suggestions message @mossy venture i support this only under the condition that it also soils your trousers when the emote is activated.

[agile condor]

Should explain that a little in your suggestion - don't think most would understand

[verbal marsh]

#d-and-d-suggestions message

[sonic pendant]

downvoted, thanks! (sorry but the three biggest problems with modern gaming IMO are Stamina, Weight, and Durability. i miss the old days.)

[verbal marsh]

the og of gaming had durability so idkwym

[agile condor]

I don't hate durability as long as it's easy to repair and not crazy expensive

[sonic pendant]

Earthbound did not have durability.

[verbal marsh]

otherwise everyone would have vanquishing weapons and noone would have fun.

[agile condor]

I do like the "previously owned by" idea but that might be a hard to code

If I bring a sword in for Ness, and drop it for Ness but he dies - who was it previously owned by?

[verbal marsh]

Whenver I'd role up on a fool with a vanquishing weapon I'd steal it : | and I loathed halbergs cause they were too heavy to steal.

what game am I talking about?

[sonic pendant]

nah i can't disagree more; weapons are lost by death. every raid, 16 go in, maybe 6, usually less, come out. that's your loot recycler. we don't need swords breaking in raid... rage.

[verbal marsh]

its fine you clearly didnt read my suggestion.

More downvotes plz

[soft relic]

I didn't particularly care. And you're right, the devs make their own decisions. The upvotes/downvotes in the end do send a signal to the developers about what their player base in general want, though even if something has 100 upvotes, that is an extremely small sample size of the player base.

That said, if suggestions are getting an extreme percentage of downvotes, often it points to either the suggestion failing to take into account game balance, or introducing an idea that could easily cause problems. Not always the case, though.

[agile condor]

I generally don't like - make this game more like X other game lol... go play X other game

[white cliff]

I think you can certainly pull things that work from other similar games like hunt or tarcov but to emulate them fully would be foolish since this playtest had more than both those games combined.

[verbal marsh]

I do hope they add tarkovs dmg health indications tho, but make it so we can go full monty python.

[agile condor]

I think features from a game are fine, but like combat as a whole seems a bit much

[verbal marsh]

yeah i don't see them changing the combat archetype from what it already is.

[agile condor]

A feature from a game is "I want this cool feature, here is a reference about how another game does it" compared to "I want this game to feel like this other game"

[verbal marsh]

They just need a better parry system.

[mossy venture]

Says my suggestion id doesn't exist 😌

[verbal marsh]

noclip abusing shields is not cool.

[soft relic]

Yeah, I tend to think of the large mechanics like how combat as a whole works as being pretty set in stone, so I don't really pay attention to those suggestions. The ones I tend to actually read over are things like, "fix this mechanic" or "add this mechanic."

And to be honest, I can see where a lot of the suggestions come from. But a lot of them don't take into account gear level, which is where they get my downvotes.

[verbal marsh]

I think if they simply gave shield an attack while guarding to stagger enemies away from no clipping them it would be good for everything.

still curious what direction they will take to fix shields.

[agile condor]

Maybe you're using an incorrect format?

If there's anything I hate besides cheating in PVP games, it's potion abuse of just spamming potions every 30 seconds.... looking at you New World

[soft relic]

I enjoyed blocking with shields, but with a cleric it didn't feel good to block an attack, immediately start my swing and they'd get a follow up attack faster than my weapon could hit lol

But in those cases where you did block an attack with the buckler, and followed up and domed someone? It felt pretty good.

[verbal marsh]

yeah they need a stagger attack for shields, would make sense for duel wield perk for fighter and it would create more of a buffer distance for guarding and overall make the fighter a bit op.

[mossy venture]

(.edit [suggestion id] [blah]) >> .edit [1517500] [blah] >> .edit [1517500 id] [blah] >> .edit [suggestion 1517500] [blah]

what I doin wrong here

[glacial bridge]

[.edit 102315 blah]

[mossy venture]

ah

[sonic pendant]

blocking is just off-meta, right now, excepting projectiles. i said this earlier, but if you had two of the same class w/ same gear, so that each needs 4 hits to kill the other, you should just duck and dodge while swinging constantly, because the shield 1. does not guarantee you won't be hit and 2. does guarantee that you're not hitting the other player. so if one player tries to block most incoming attacks and the other just left clicks, the left clicker should win statistically more of those fights. i'd like to see that changed somehow too

[verbal marsh]

dont put [] when you type

those are just examples.

[soft relic]

You're not wrong.

[mossy venture]

yes

[soft relic]

To be honest, as I played more and more cleric, I blocked less and less. Except against barbarian, because it's always, always coming down from overhead.

[wintry forge]

I don't know, but maybe there are players that aren't voting that'd like my suggestions. But anyways, ultimately only the devs opinions matter because it's their game. And if "hardcore" is based on playtime, then I'm casual.

[sonic pendant]

even then, there's some dmg transfer thru shields, and barbs are the easiest class to juke. but i feel you. i'd love a slightly longer TTK with more skill based fighting. but i mean like 10%, not like mordhau like some suggestions.

[verbal marsh]

yeah, i think a shield attack would balance out the entire parrying function, cause the stagger from landing on shield is not efficiently enough when they're using faster weapons, if you could essentially swing your shield as a fast 1 2 punch for backing and raising your mainhand it would work a lot better.

[soft relic]

If you got a proper block, you took no damage I am pretty sure

I'd like a longer TTK as well. But more like a 3-4 shot meta, rather than the 1-2 shot that we have now

Not like a long drawn out fight. I haven't seen Mordhau.

[verbal marsh]

Nah cause barbarian weapons have +1 impact and tagger you as well, you basically cant do anything aside from tank unless you've a cleric behind you.

[sonic pendant]

i'm fuzzy on this, but iirc there was something from the devs about gear score(ish, maybe?) allowing some to transfer, like you can take a fractional % of weapon damage if the weapon is significantly stronger than your shield? i maxed a cleric and a fighter but i never really blocked anything but arrows/magic missiles so i didn't test this. am i making things up or can someone confirm that?

[soft relic]

Admittedly, I wasn't paying close attention to my health when blocking barb swings in PvP. I do know that while blocking the centaur or skeleton champions I was taking no damage

[sonic pendant]

you might be right, i can't remember enough of what i'm talking about, could have been some scuttlebut in general for all i remember

[verbal marsh]

I've had longbow arrows go through my shield and still slightly dmg me.

[soft relic]

It's totally possible that the damage transfer is just intended to be added later. I have no idea.

[verbal marsh]

I think its involved with getting hit during the stagger animation.

if a barb is duel wielding you likely will get hit regardless of how you guard.

[sonic pendant]

mordhau is a super complex version of sword fighting, every weapon can attack from like 8 different angles, and you can abuse animation to "drag" or "accelerate" your attacks so that you get a hit before or after the player parries you. it's a lot of fun but it would make fights take ages

[soft relic]

Yeah, I wouldn't enjoy that. We already have drag here and it's alright, but honestly I kind of like combat how it is now, and think it needs minor tweaks rather than major ones to convert it to something like that.

[sonic pendant]

agreed.

[verbal marsh]

it would be easy to make combat like that, but it the variety would take away from the darksouls feel of level obsticles involved with certain weapon combats.

[white cliff]

@wispy dagger This has been suggested quite a few times.

[sonic pendant]

devs have already confirmed that it's coming at some point, haven't they?

[white cliff]

Yes.

[sonic pendant]

this is what i was talking about, obv one person isn't proof but i'm pretty sure a system like that was mentioned as being implemented

[ebon delta]

i wouldn't like some random people calling me names in voice chat during the game tbh

[verbal marsh]

yeah i think it was the skele archers penetrating my shield with their 2 shot

[sonic pendant]

that's the part i'm least looking forward to, but the memes will be worth it

[verbal marsh]

I stopped guarding against that and just ducking the first arrow

[wispy dagger]

I figured it had, I just wanted to be the extra number to prove a point

[ebon delta]

i hope so

[verbal marsh]

found out with the skele archers its best to duck then raise shield for the 2nd arrow.

got use to killing them quickly they usually dont do more then the first shot.

[sonic pendant]

re: that, this is gold - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxF3jWJOwVE&list=LL&index=4

watch w/ sound

[verbal marsh]

The camera bob is not necessary bit it probably does help,

[sonic pendant]

it is very useful against players though. have one of your tms crouch and then crouch while looking at floor. much less of their body is in swing range

[verbal marsh]

If I'm ever near a streamer I'll go full matrix with the surrender emote.

I'll name my wizard Neo for you all.

Hrm; yes I think i'll use up my Keanu database of names next playtest.

[vagrant stone]

i just assume there's always going to be a 2nd shot lol

and duck every shot w/ shield

[sonic pendant]

i got so tired of having to type out long names to invite friends; i started using ness, ness1, ness2, lol just so i didn't' have to spell it out for everyone i played with

"kingarthurknightoftheroundtable" or w/e is a lot to type.

[verbal marsh]

The left right strife is more then enough unless you're within 5m

by which case I just block.

I'll have to name my rogue neo since he'll be forced to do the most dodging hrm.

I'll name my cleric Keanu, cause keanu always saves.

well I guess not in cyberpunk he kinda fk'd shit up there hrm

He can have my fighters title nod nod

[ebon delta]

My friend had the same problem since my char name was 40yearsoldwizard) Then after wipe i changed it to 41yearsoldwizard so my friend... ended up suggesting some shorter names for my next characters. Although most of them where quite inappropriate so i wont use them)

[lucid root]

I didn't get borg for my wizard, next test maybe

[verbal marsh]

I'll give my cleric a meme name cause I might play cleric more next pt

[sonic pendant]

i can't recommend enough to team with a barb, as a cleric. they're so slow that it's so much easier to hit them with heals, and they're so strong w/ so much health anyway. other classes, even fighters can juke your heals while trying to juke the enemy much easier. plus fear and door smashing. i ran with a barb, and whoever for the third, ranger, wiz, whatever, and we went like 15 raids before we got wiped. it was so much fun. just buff and heal, and avoid fighting at all.

a barb is basically invincible for like 10-15 seconds with a good cleric, and that's plenty of time to wipe a 3man

[verbal marsh]

I'll mostly be soloing my cleric, I'm not that interesting in teamplaying it in pugs lol

[sonic pendant]

ah. now that, was the most boring gameplay i had all wipe. 6 seconds of buffing before every fight, and then just repetitive booping with the mace that only has one swing animation... it was just so boring.

i did fine as a solo cleric

but it's not fun

[verbal marsh]

carrying bad players as cleric is annoying you cant even tap a third of your own potential lol

[sonic pendant]

wizard is the most fun solo imo. so many options every fight, much more dynamic fighting

[sonic pendant]

don't play with bad players. lol. my and my barb friend would do one raid with a rando third in party chat, and then leave if they weren't carryign their weight

[verbal marsh]

I honestly can kill more people by going in myself :3

I have fun with rando's tho, I just dont play cleric lol

[sonic pendant]

eh. if you're a good cleric, and can avoid the temptation to fight everything and just keep your team buffed and healed, it's super OP.

[verbal marsh]

If I pug my cleric ill just watch my teamates die : 3

[sonic pendant]

pug?

[verbal marsh]

public user grp

[ebon delta]

If it doesn't include teamkills then i am with you on that) As a wizard playing in team feels kinda harder to me then playing solo. I think i killed my teammates with fireballs and chain lightning more often then i killed other players

[sonic pendant]

lokkpik's got an essay about something incoming, lol i'm so ready for it.

well, that was shorter than expected.

[soft relic]

I had fun as solo cleric. But I didn't like flanged mace. 😄

[verbal marsh]

pugging a wizard is annoying; I've had people intentionally walk directly infront of me while I rip off "multiple" fireballs to troll...

[sonic pendant]

yea it's a lame weapon. the only-vertical booping with like zero range gets old fast

[ebon delta]

i am just very slow at typing) Not a native speaker

[soft relic]

Morningstar felt better to me. Little more range, and honestly I liked the attack angles better. Bit slow though

[white cliff]

Love the flanged mace.

[sonic pendant]

that's ok, i didn't mean to pick on you or anything. usually long typing means a strong opinion and a lot of text is coming, and i like those posts lol

[verbal marsh]

I died more to troll teamates then to enemies as a wizard. I never killed anyone intentionally unless they deserved it.

[sonic pendant]

too slow. i'd def trade power for speed on that, but i agree with the rest

[white cliff]

That sounds like griefing with extra steps.

[verbal marsh]

I mean unintentionally lol

same difference tbh

[sonic pendant]

wizards are the most difficult to fit in a team comp; they basically need to be first through every door w/ haste/invis, and get behind the enemies. if you can stick to that in your group, you'll be more successful. but trying to be behind a barb/fighter tanking dps, yea, you're gonna nuke your guys too often

[soft relic]

Yeah. The first hit was slower, but the second and 3rd hit seemed a little faster than the first. I'll be the first to admit I wasn't great at cleric combat. Coming from rogue to cleric, all cleric weapons felt unbelievably slow.

[verbal marsh]

you can hear when a wizard begins his cast and the spells have a distinct difference and obvious indication toward which are being casted.

[soft relic]

Even the flanged mace felt ridiculously slow on the swing to me. Swapping to fighter, things like arming sword felt way better.

[sonic pendant]

i don't think i ever ran an arming sword on a fight. there was always someone in trade willing to sell a green falch for 30g, even if it took a few tries.

[soft relic]

I'm wondering how much stacking some agility would help morningstar

[soft relic]

Yeah. Even falchion felt way better than any of the cleric weapons.

[verbal marsh]

why use morning star when flanged does more dmg.

[soft relic]

It doesn't.

[sonic pendant]

it doesn't, and range.

[soft relic]

Morningstar had higher damage and range

Flanged mace had a very slight edge on speed, but was still really slow feeling

[sonic pendant]

when you start to run cleric you'll see just how bad the range is on flanged. it's basically punching range. edit: quoted wrong person

[verbal marsh]

Nah I killed skeles mostly with flanged cause I could get two hits off.

[sonic pendant]

i mean ok but that doesn't change its dmg or range lol

[verbal marsh]

morning star you get one and the swing was diagnal with larger slow window.

[soft relic]

I think both weapons felt so slow to me, the reach on the morningstar and better damage let me lean into that as a crutch. Flanged very well could be a better overall weapon

[sonic pendant]

yea but you could also dodge the return skele swing easier since you were farther away to start. but i agree, morning star was too slow. i usually ran flanged myself. i just didn't care for either

[soft relic]

But per hit, morningstar was higher damage. And honestly I liked that it changed up the attack angle. I ran into issues where against people with shields, cleric with flanged had the same weakness as barbarian. If they block upward, you can't hit them lol

[verbal marsh]

you have to be pretty use to using morningstar to get more range out of it tbh

flanged is just faster and better overall

[soft relic]

That said, while the first swing of the morningstar was slow, I am almost positive the second and third were faster

[verbal marsh]

I dont even remember what type of swings the 2nd and third were

[soft relic]

The first was a slow, slightly diagonal from your upper right. Second was down from the upper left. Third was horizontal from the right

[verbal marsh]

if you're use to using morningstar you probably could just lean away from the skele swing if you knew the timing but idk if its worth it to get that familiar with.

[white cliff]

We played pocket wizard the majority of the pt.

[soft relic]

Yeah. I think you're probably right that the flanged was better. I just hated the flanged reach and attack angles.

And I was coming to the cleric after using exclusively daggers on rogue. So both felt bad overall to me.

[verbal marsh]

I usually just used the maul cause I like spamming

[soft relic]

I tried the war maul one time, because a guy dropped a decent one... after 2 swings, I put it away mid fight and punched a 3 man to death because I couldn't land the hits. 🤣

[verbal marsh]

Oh I usually dont land any either, but thats when my teamates come from behind them.

[white cliff]

I used the maul once on drunken cleric and felt like a liability.

It was back to support after that.

[verbal marsh]

its either die to me or die to the barb you managed to get past.

I'm a typhoon baby

[soft relic]

Honestly fists felt better than any of the cleric weapons to me.

[verbal marsh]

I think I'll name my Cleric Vash

[soft relic]

At least I could keep up with rangers and rogues that were backpedaling

[white cliff]

I’m going to name my cleric Kinji.

[verbal marsh]

It is a good name.

If you're unfamiliar with the name Vash, you should spend this time watching the entire trigun series.

oh you can actually watch it on youtube as well lol

[solar smelt]

flanged mace is a headshot machine

cleric def needs some more weapons though

[verbal marsh]

I just want a flail

[jaunty bay]

has anyone seen any suggestions about skills or perks with rangers involving slowing shot enemies. I thought if it were a perk it could be legshots slow for a second or two, and if its a skill it could be less restricted for a limited time

[soft relic]

I want a holy dagger, as per the Viva la Dirt League skit on DPS healers.

[frosty creek]

why people dont like my suggest ?

[verbal marsh]

I would love to see faith option change cleric loadouts

[glacial bridge]

you trying to force team comps in matchmaking? of course people dont like that

[mossy venture]

fr fr how am I supposed to RP my wizard covens and thieves guilds with team comps?

[lucid root]

rp servers needed obviously

[glacial bridge]

need Bards and Dwarves before RP servers

[sonic pendant]

it's wild just how off-the-mark some of these suggestions are. it's wilder that people don't understand why. "add helicopters" ">why am i being downvoted" lolol

[lucid root]

Gnome gets the minicopter

[mossy venture]

smh this is why you should clarify

otherwise people get the wrong idea and downvote you

[glacial bridge]

helicopters isnt even that bad compared to some of the awful suggestions

and thats worrying

[sonic pendant]

#d-and-d-suggestions message let's gather those upvotes, boys

[mossy venture]

Its gunna be another WoW moment where everyone voted Panda's as a Joke

[glacial bridge]

true. pandas ruined wow

[sonic pendant]

@lucid root why am i being downvoted

[glacial bridge]

in my experience, this is where you call Borg a toxic hater

[sonic pendant]

oh my bad ur right

[lucid root]

It's true I be hatin'

[glacial bridge]

i miss the old borg :(

[sonic pendant]

lol the people not in on the joke have found the post.

[soft relic]

Which one of your suggestions?

If you mean the first one, it's because a free farming map would break the game. The point of the game is that it's a battle royale where you have limited time. Your idea would make it too easy to farm gear.

If you mean the second one, it's because nobody wants to be forced to play the game a certain way. Forcing every group to have a tank, dps, and support makes no sense. For example, it was better at high end gear to NOT have a support cleric. And even at low end gear, depending on what your group wants to do, having a "tank", "dps" and "support" doesn't necessarily fit what your group wants to do in the first place.

In addition, fighters can be DPS more than tanks, as can barbarians. Cleric can be more tank than support depending on playstyle and gear. Those roles are kind of fluid.

[woeful oriole]

@glacial bridge you remind me of a friend i have

@wintry forge and you... You disagree with a training dummy?

I'd like to know just how much im stabbing someome in the back of the head for

[wintry forge]

I don't know. I kind of like where players just get to practice in game.

[woeful oriole]

Ah the classic i bonk you as a 2h axe barbarian practice

All I'vr learned is dont fight barbs. Just go away and steal their portals

Its not that i dont know where you're coming from, but i like knowing how much damage perks and skills add

[wintry forge]

Yeah, I've had the most success with Rogue (although I've only tried Rogue and fighter), but I try to grab loot and get out, because if I'm spotted by groups I usually lose the fight.

[soft relic]

Training dummy isn't about practicing combat. It's very bad for that. It's about getting to test what your gear sets are capable of and how stats affect your character.

[wintry forge]

Whats wrong with this suggestion? #d-and-d-suggestions message
I thought people would like it better than matchmaking based on in-game time. Is it just because it's a sort of skill-based matchmaking? Do you guys only like matchmaking that groups players randomly?

[jagged cobalt]

Would it be unreasonable if rangers and barbarians could also use long swords?

[vagrant stone]

The issue is that it will increase the wait time for getting into games. If you're trying to look for players who only have a similar amount of games to you then it will be excluding some players and so it takes longer to fill in the game. You could also make it so that if it exceeds a certain amount of time anybody can be let in, that would be a way to speed it up.

I also just think its one of those things where Iron Mace are very aware of different ways they could have matchmaking work

right now they're starting simple with the goal being to have fast queue times, and so they will gradually introduce more complexity which will increase the queue times, in order to find the sweet spot for where they want it

[sonic pendant]

it wouldn't be unreasonable. in fact, most weapon/class restrictions are unreasonable, but the devs need mechanisms for class balancing, so we have to accept these things. it's not like setting a trap is some impossible challenge that requires years of study, yet only rangers can do it, because if everyone could, they'd be everywhere.

[woeful oriole]

Well you have to look at things thematically

And from a dnd perspective as well

[vagrant stone]

longsword is a knightly weapon, they're not allowed.

[woeful oriole]

Barbs using sword

[ebon delta]

@wintry forge This, and also you can make new character, nothing stops you from that.

[woeful oriole]

Big no no

Thats small dik energy

Rangers though?

Shortswords and swords maybe

Since theres a playstyle of ranger where they play similar to assassins

And pretty much forgo range >_>

[jagged cobalt]

We’ll rangers can use arming swords and rapiers by default and can also use spears with a perk

[woeful oriole]

Im talkin duel wielding

Problem is rangers have a massive penalty to melee

[vagrant stone]

ironically from a historical context the falchion fits in more with the ranger class than an arming sword, but the arming sword is smaller so it fits with the flimsy arm ranger

[woeful oriole]

So if you wanted to impliment that style, you'd need a perk that removes that

Just to let you know

It takes mad strength

To use a bow

And to fire arrows constantly

[vagrant stone]

back strength

[woeful oriole]

Would drain your stamina fast

So they aren't as weak as games have you believe

On that note, guns are similar

You'd think it would be easy just pointing and pressing a button

But it actually gets very tiring to do that

You know what, now im floating with the idea that this game should have a stamina system >_>

Probably wouldnt be well received

But it would be a great way to balance things

[soft relic]

My issue with it is that it is not a skill based match making. Games played tells nothing about how well that person did, how many players they killed, what percentage of games they extracted, how much they looted as they went through... nothing that actually matters. There are a surprising number of players in games that play a lot but don't improve.

[frosty creek]

look at over pvp games like over watch and league of legends and dota 2

they all use role system

5 healers is not a good team...

[wintry forge]

But Ironmace is considering limiting the number of characters a player can have.

[soft relic]

Yes, but this game is very different than those games. That same rule doesn't apply as well here.

3 rogues is great. 3 rangers? OP. 3 fighters? Works fine.

3 wizards? Brutal

[woeful oriole]

Hey

Dont spit on the sword and board gang

We're gonna have to visit you if you keep spreading this slander

[wintry forge]

Which is why I suggested it to be based on games played, because it's not just a skill-based matchmaking, which people are against.

[jagged cobalt]

What about torches. Do you guys think torches should be an offhand weapon? Maybe each default character could start with 1 torch in their secondary weapon slot as an off hand.

[agile condor]

Just because you have an idea of something that can be done... doesn't mean it should be lol

[woeful oriole]

I think this should be elden ring style

Have a basic torch

But allow you to buy a hip lantern

[soft relic]

I guess I'm just not seeing what this solves. If it's not a skill based match making system, then you are simply putting bad players in with good players either way.

[woeful oriole]

That has less light range

But the benefit of being able to use your offhand

@soft relic if im seeing this right, his entire argument is that he doesn't want geared to the teeth players, kicking in the faces of players with no equipment

Creating a loop of death and annoyance

[ebon delta]

Sure. Delete one of your previous characters, make a new one and go destroy newbies as an experienced player. This creates more problems then it solves, at least right now

[soft relic]

So if you're not balancing matches by skill or gear, all you're doing is making finding a match take an artificially long amount of time

[woeful oriole]

Because thats what happens if you have no skill based matchming, now im not suporting skill based

[soft relic]

My issue is, number of games played =/= amount of gear a player has

[woeful oriole]

But the idea that you get shit stomped because someone plags this game 24/7 doesn't feel good

[soft relic]

For example, my best set of gear? I put it together in the first 3 days of the test and didn't touch it until the last day.

[woeful oriole]

Its already proven that good gear just overrides skill unless you're absolute ass

[soft relic]

So I could have been stomping people hard with very few games played in the first place

[woeful oriole]

I go back to my example

Of me using a basic rogue knife

And stabbing a knife 15 times

Without him dying

[soft relic]

On the flip side, what if you're a long time player wanting to go in with a default kit?

[woeful oriole]

With poison and bleed

And he just two hits me

[jagged cobalt]

Most default kits are pretty weak.. unless you’re a barb

[woeful oriole]

Yeah but thats the point

It just makes the problem worse

Now again, im not agreeinf with skill based match making

[soft relic]

Yeah, default kits suck. But match making based on number of games played doesn't stop people from running over undergeared opponents.

[woeful oriole]

But, i can see the issue in a game like this

[granite plinth]

default knife is trash, i always have 11 green daggers in my stash

[woeful oriole]

And yes, tmit is an issue ran

I played 10 games without escaping

So if thst was implimented

[soft relic]

You have long time players running garbage kits, and players running in full purple on their second day of playing

[woeful oriole]

It should be based on number of games escaped + rough value of loot acquired

However

That poses another issue

[lusty wren]

Those metrics mean literally nothing

[woeful oriole]

And it just causes a lot of calculation issues and inflated issues

Yeah its not accurate

Im saying in the event it was added

[lusty wren]

Then why would you use it if it literally means nothing?

[woeful oriole]

It would give a slightly better estimate

[jagged cobalt]

Did you not like the idea of high roller lobbies?

[lusty wren]

All you are doing is inflating queue times for 0 pay off

[woeful oriole]

Then just number of games played

Yeah that too

Thats the 3rd issue

That slipped my mind

It would create queue time issues

In any case

Like i said, i can see his concerns

[vestal thorn]

No player filter would be perfect I think their implementation of only 2 lobbies this test was a good attempt to see how queue times would be affected by even just 50% split. I want to see the data on that before any sort of suggestion on this really can be fleshed out imo.

Queue times being short = king in generes like this, huge impact.

[woeful oriole]

But the implimentation to fix those concerns is poor

[jagged cobalt]

The randomness of it all is kinda fun imo

[woeful oriole]

I kind of want a gearscore system

It would cause some minor queue time issues

But it mah solve some things

[jagged cobalt]

But if gear is really too much of a problem.. I’m sure the devs could decrease the impact of gear

[woeful oriole]

What i mean is, a floor for no gear, a floor for some gear and a floor for high tier gear

You can only enter these floors if you meet/are below the gear score for the floor

[vestal thorn]

Isn't that was B1-B3 is supposed to do in theory?

[lusty wren]

GOD that sounds horrible

[woeful oriole]

I.e to enter floor zero, you can only enter with default loot

[jagged cobalt]

Meaning an experienced player with a default kit could outplay a noob with full purples

[granite plinth]

well then I can't zero to hero with that system

[lusty wren]

Gearscore also is not a metric worth even calculating 😄

[woeful oriole]

To get into floor 2 and start there, you need 100 gs or items that equal it

You cannot enter floor 1 or floor 3 though

Well you didnt let me finish @jagged cobalt

So even if an experienced player enters floor 1 against noobs

The noobs still have some degree of chance

[lusty wren]

So if you want to wear gear you are locked out of the entire first floor in each queue? This is kinda ridiculous

[woeful oriole]

Since everyone starts with no fear

[vestal thorn]

I feel like a majority of what you're trying to do was tested this play test, and so when they dump the metrics behind it "soon" we can see which direction they'll probably go no?

[woeful oriole]

Kind of yes

[lusty wren]

Gear does not = win

[woeful oriole]

It would fix the everyone hoards money problem as well

Just listen

Gear is a large portion of the game, you cant deny this

[lusty wren]

So If I have the skill to do lvl 2 with no gear Im just SOL cus i dont want to wear better gear?

[woeful oriole]

Rogue is ass until they get some good gear for example

[wintry forge]

Don't lots of good players go in with no gear though?

[woeful oriole]

Yeah, you're stuck in floor 1 until you put on some gear

[lusty wren]

One of the best parts of this game was killing stacked teams and going from white gear to purple gear 😄

[woeful oriole]

And head to floor 2

You want to enter bigger floors? Equip more shit

The other reason i suggest this is because of the pve aspect

[jagged cobalt]

I see what you are saying

[woeful oriole]

You could have bosses tailored specifically to it

[lusty wren]

YOu can do hell in base gear

[woeful oriole]

Your point?

[jagged cobalt]

But I’m pretty sure balancing and the game was created for 3man groups

[woeful oriole]

I dont think you understand my point

[lusty wren]

you said pve was a reason to lock people out of the lower levels

when its not

[woeful oriole]

No i didnt

You are putting words in my mouth

[lusty wren]

Gearscore means nothing. Teams with no gear beat teams with it all the time

[woeful oriole]

And assuming my intent

[lucid root]

I played 2 days straight farming up gear with book, gloves and boots from vendor

[woeful oriole]

Am i not being clear enough?

Also its merely a suggestion

[lusty wren]

You are being crystal clear, which makes it even easier to see its just a bad suggestion. No offense though

[woeful oriole]

So even if skill overrides gear

[jagged cobalt]

Solo? Yes gear makes a big difference but in team play? Teamwork and team comp can usually win regardless of gear.

[woeful oriole]

At the very least you wont have a situation where gear overrides skill or gear + skill overrides everyone

Which is the main issue

And coming back to the original topic

[lusty wren]

Gear means nothing. I dont even want to see "gearscore" calculated its a faux and means nothing

[woeful oriole]

Why people keep suggesting skill based match making

[ebon delta]

i don't. Can't even imagine how big of a pain in the butt it would be for devs to decide how much gearscore = "+1 to resoursefullness". They will have to rate every single enchantment and every single piece of equipment. That is a lot of work for something that doesn't really solves much

[woeful oriole]

Its bexause they want to stop people from just shit stomping other peoples experience

[lusty wren]

Whats the best ratio for this system in the suggestions?

[woeful oriole]

Its like when you camp a door in tarkov

That is not skill

Thats just you being a rat

[lusty wren]

Many like to punch up, and your system destroys that

[jagged cobalt]

Was this your first playtest?

[woeful oriole]

Yes it was my first playtest

@lusty wren go punch up in high roller

[jagged cobalt]

Trust me.. next playtest you’ll do a lot better

[granite plinth]

idk man, fortnight kinda died with sbmm

[lusty wren]

You point to the suggestions asking for SBMM as proof the game needs SBMM have you not seen how badly those suggestions are downvoted?

[woeful oriole]

Sev, i enjoted the game and im not suggesting this bexause i have an issue with going against people with armor

I find the challenge personally to be fun. However, at the same time. I know how frustrating it can get for people

[jagged cobalt]

It’s meant to be a hardcore experience

Which I’m sure is what makes it more satisfying

[woeful oriole]

And it can still be that? In any case, if you think this is a terrible idea thats fine

What suggestions do you propose

To prevent people from being bullies/rats

[lusty wren]

Non issue

The circle prevents ratting enough, and "bullies" LOL

[jagged cobalt]

Find yourself being bullied? Group up with a friend or two..

[lusty wren]

not interested in stopping your definition of "bullying"

[woeful oriole]

Proxy, some reason i feel like you're one of the people who camp exits in tarkov

On the one hand, its a fun experience, very tense

The exit is close but one final obstacle stsnds in your way

On the other hand

No one likes you

[lusty wren]

This means nothing

But continue if you insist 😄

[woeful oriole]

The point being

You're being highly aggressive snd confrontational in a discussion room

About potential game mechanics

[lusty wren]

Not at all, I am explaining why its a bad take. That is all

Put it in suggestions lets see how many upvotes you get

[woeful oriole]

Yeah you could do that without the attitude

[vestal thorn]

Wait isn't a lot of the point of extraction games to bully the extraction by it's very nature?

[lusty wren]

and you could debate without making personal assumptions of "playstyle" as if that means anything 😉

[jagged cobalt]

I think the game was designed to even steal another persons portal

[woeful oriole]

I actuallt dont know the purpise of extraction games, seems the entire purpose is to loot, pvp and escape

[granite plinth]

going in naked and knowing that I can't get good gear from someone else kinda ruins it for me

[jagged cobalt]

Yes

[woeful oriole]

Well fair point

Sometimes you stab someone and it turns out they have good shit on them

But i feel like theres so many things that can be done a bit better

How to impliment those things is another story

[lusty wren]

Could you imagine tryin to go to floor 2 and getting a screen pop up saying. SORRY your "GEARSCORE" is not high enough to enter.... LOL no thanks

[granite plinth]

I like going into the unknown, they should remove maps bc it's weird knowing whats behind every door

[woeful oriole]

@lusty wren in my mind it was more of a lobby based thing. You can still loot just fine

And it would be like different brackets and floors if that makes any sense

[lusty wren]

You said cant go to floor 2.... YOu go to floor two by going thru floor 1 and entering floor 2

That is how the system works

[woeful oriole]

Okay let me tru

To explain it better

[jagged cobalt]

Also, know that the drop rate for high lvl loot is also increased for the playtest

[woeful oriole]

So imagine bracket one is no gs, floors 1-3. Bracket 2 is 100 gs, floors 1-3 but different setting, better loot, different bosses, bracket 3, is another 3 floors with even better loot snd stronger bosses

[jagged cobalt]

I’d assume and hope that on official release, rare loot will be rare

[woeful oriole]

And it would be like that

[lusty wren]

So base dungeons and high roller? 😄

[woeful oriole]

Kind of

I had more of a

Tower theme in mind

Different towers

[sonic pendant]

is this a serious statement?

[woeful oriole]

And to enter towers you need a minimum gs to enter

[lusty wren]

But what metric does Gearscore prove?

[woeful oriole]

@sonic pendant half serious, half joking

Its like battle royals, you dont really have a purpose, except to have fun

[sonic pendant]

absolutely none. just that you spent money. nothing to do with skill

[sonic pendant]

that's... every game, ever.

[jagged cobalt]

You should play a barb or a wizard next playtest. They don’t need any gear and can wipe 3man squads.

[lusty wren]

All adding gearscore does is ruin fun,

[woeful oriole]

@sonic pendant its with extractions especially. Like if i play an rpg, i can enjoy a good story

If i play a moba i guess, i could have some good pvp interactions

So my description of extraction imo is accurate in my mind

You loot, pvp and escape

And then you do it again

[lusty wren]

Do you want a solo queue also?

[woeful oriole]

@lusty wren and i get that, but i dunno. Lets just say we remove the gs thing because i was thinking in terms of an mmo and refine the idean

I think the towers concept is cool

[sonic pendant]

so why do you play this game? maddening

[woeful oriole]

Because I enjoy hard games?

I ran through elden ring using only daggers, you know how ass those things are

I enjot methodical type playstyles

That force me to use what i have

To outplay someone

[lusty wren]

So you should be opposed to GS also

[sonic pendant]

i don't care even a little bit how good you want me to think you are at other games. stop trying to change this one fundamentally.

[woeful oriole]

Hmm, yes and no. When i was thinking of the tower concept, i was thinking partly about pve and playing with randoms

@sonic pendant you asked a question, i responded

Why are you suddenly turning it into a personal attack >_>

[jagged cobalt]

Change of topic.. dual wielding.

Two arming swords

[woeful oriole]

Rogues, and fighters exclusive

[jagged cobalt]

Two falchions

[woeful oriole]

Remove penalty from using 2

Add unique animations for using two

[sonic pendant]

because you're personally attacking others here, and acting like it's self defense. you're being very disagreeable

[sonic pendant]

this

[sonic pendant]

this

[vestal thorn]

DW felt worse than 1 weapon due to movement penalty until, late game where the stat stick effect of the second weapon outshines this penalty.

[woeful oriole]

Im being disagreeable yes, but i dont believe im personally attacking people, minus proxy because he was harping pretty hard on a random suggestion

[sonic pendant]

this

[woeful oriole]

Thats not personally attacking, he was assuming intent >_>

[lusty wren]

Only proxy because I couldn't combat his point with my own. So I resorted to personal attacks 😄

[sonic pendant]

as i'm assuming yours - as being driven by a superiority complex as evidenced by your bragging about some elden ring nonsense

[ebon delta]

I think books should have a basic attack of some kind. It would be funny to beat someone with a spellbook

[wintry forge]

I think it's a "roguelike", without being called a roguelike.

[woeful oriole]

Imma be honest here proxy, some of the stuff you say do make sense, but you could be less aggressive in tone or maybe thats me reading it poorly

[lusty wren]

I hope I can hit people with a lute with bard

[sonic pendant]

it's def the latter

[vestal thorn]

Spell books felt extremely strong given cast speed, move speed, small target box for cast animation (against walls) and hence the no base attack. I'd rather not give up those stats for what could be a weapon swap, and if you wanted both wasn't that dagger+ball?

[woeful oriole]

Let me piint out an example @sonic pendant

"You said cant go to floor 2.... YOu go to floor two by going thru floor 1 and entering floor 2"

I never said that

He made several statement similar to this one

[sonic pendant]

dude idrc proxy's been in here for a minute and been fine. you show up and are being rude and short and just generally frustrating to read. calm yourself and speak to others with respect

[woeful oriole]

"you said pve was a reason to lock people out of the lower levels"

Is this not assuming intent?

I think the only one ive been mildly rude to is proxy which i do apologize for

[lusty wren]

I am not attempting to be aggressive, I am simply very against SBMM in all forms for this game because I think it will ruin it. I am not sure how I could alter my responses to seem less "aggressive" I just aggressively hate the concept for DaD 😄

[woeful oriole]

But he was just as rude back

[white cliff]

How much have I missed lol.

[ebon delta]

Why would you have to give up something for it? Just make it be mechanically the same as unarmed strike and that's it

[woeful oriole]

Ive been rude to no one else

[lusty wren]

I am not offended no worries 😉

[woeful oriole]

And i do think some of his statements have merit

[lusty wren]

Just the SBMM topic again

[woeful oriole]

In any case the original topic was about skill based match making and i was proposing a basic perhaps not well thought solution to prevent inflated queue times

But i still think the tower concept is cool

And i dont know what sbmm means

[sonic pendant]

there is no skill based mm in this game. the devs themselves have said they don't want it.

[woeful oriole]

It was someone else

[lusty wren]

I do like a tower concept for difficulty. I just disliked the requirements I guess

[woeful oriole]

Who brought it up

And people were saying its terrible and i see both sides

So i was thinking of a way to benefit both sides

And then i thought about the tower concept

[vestal thorn]

Because that's how weapons seemed to be balanced in this game. Ignite would then be viable if that weapon did any damage at all hence why all the weapons are intended to "feel" distinct?

Spell books + ignite doing it's damage as a weapon attack with a very low movement penalty as is would seem a bit too strong given how good already the ball+dagger version was on top of an even faster cast speed.

[jagged cobalt]

Think we need to wait for the implementation of b1

[woeful oriole]

And was like hmm, it doesnt seem like a bad idea to do it like this

But there are issues with it

[lusty wren]

I hope there are 3 levels in next playtest. Will be such a game changer

[jagged cobalt]

Yea I wonder how it will change the gameplay

[sonic pendant]

agreed, can't wait to try the forest

[woeful oriole]

I just want more enviornments, enemies and maps

And perhaps random spawns >_> but some people may not like that

Also random traps

[lusty wren]

What do you mean by random spawns? Mobs or players?

[woeful oriole]

Mobs

Minus bosses of course

I know theres a level of skill knowing the map

But at the same time, it removes the surprise factor

[white cliff]

You want a procedurally generated map system is what you’re saying.

[strange sable]

Why are people against water in the game

[lusty wren]

Id be ok with variations on mob spawns. But I dont know about full random spawns

[white cliff]

Procedural is what you’re looking for.

[lusty wren]

Yeah, I wanted this at first. Until the devs said they suck at it and that was why they shifted away from it 😄

[woeful oriole]

Well not full on gank squad room

[white cliff]

Water is horrible and slows gameplay in quite a few ways.

[woeful oriole]

Like, i wouldnt want to walk into a room with 8 skeleton archers

[white cliff]

I can’t imagine swinging a sword in neck high water.

[woeful oriole]

For a basic bitch chest thats actually a mimic

[granite plinth]

then just have different variations of the same map

[woeful oriole]

@white cliff but difficulty and methodical thinking

[white cliff]

In relation to water?

[woeful oriole]

Full on water rooms with super good loot?

Maybe use the rooms to ambush or escape

One of the things i love most in games

[ebon delta]

But dagger hits faster then unarmed strikes isn't it? Not only that, but it also, i think, was doing more damage by itself then unarmed strikes. I don't think that ability to hit someone with a book for unarmed strike damage with the speed of unarmed strikes would've broke anything in that regard

[white cliff]

Plus creating the physics engine for that. Probably not a good use of recourses.

[woeful oriole]

Is when you can use the enviornment to your advantage

[white cliff]

Sure, that’s a big part of learning the map.

I don’t think water needs to be apart of that.

[lusty wren]

I think people forget we are working with a low budget and store bought assets. You have limited room for things in this development process

[white cliff]

I can’t think of any games where water combat is fun.

[woeful oriole]

But drowning people....

[wintry forge]

Why did people down vote this? #d-and-d-suggestions message

[woeful oriole]

Its not supposed to be fun

Its supposed to cause you to suffer

[granite plinth]

the sewers don't sound fun

[frosty creek]

i have a theory
ppl in this game dont want fair and balanced matches
they downvote suggestion like forced roles (1 tank 1 healer 1 dps) and skill based match making

very weird ...

[woeful oriole]

Why do you think miyazaki likes poison levels so much

[soft relic]

Forced roles are not necessarily fair or balanced. This isn't a MOBA.

[woeful oriole]

@frosty creek your theory is correct

[white cliff]

I mean you’re trying to dictate where recourses should go when you don’t know where the devs are in their pipeline of design. Plus skill trees have been slotted in the game for a while it’s not like they’re not adding them. It’s one of those, yeah of course; obvious suggestions.

[strange sable]

Because who are you to tell the devs what they should and shouldn’t have ready next playtest

[woeful oriole]

Its not a theory, its fact

[frosty creek]

Thx

[woeful oriole]

Its fun to beat down and outplay

[frosty creek]

i agree

[vestal thorn]

Maybe, but given how crazy good that build was Ignite+dagger. I would think some fine tuning would need to be done to spell book if so. Given it is I think the best casting weapon right? In terms of stats, movement speed, animation, etc. I guess is my point.

You're right that the base damage of fists isn't much for wizards base str, but the flexibility of running even less gear (less movement speed penalty) is a pretty big advantage that maybe wiz doesn't need right now. /shrug.

[jagged cobalt]

There is a certain thrill of being able to down a 3man group as a solo.. and there is nothing fair about it.

[lusty wren]

Why would we want forced comps on us? This is just madness

[woeful oriole]

Exactly, outplay

Being a rovue

And killing three rangers

Gives me a high like no other

[frosty creek]

for fair matches ?
best team is tank healer dps
so iron mace should force it

[soft relic]

His idea is that League of Legends and DOTA2 have forced roles and that 5 healers in those games isn't a good team. But this is not those games.

[soft relic]

That is not at all the best team in this game.

Like, not even close

[jagged cobalt]

Would that be possible with a gs system or with sbmm?

[woeful oriole]

Fuck your beartraps and fuck your bows

[wintry forge]

Just a suggestion. I'm not dictating.

[lusty wren]

NO actually best comp was wiz/barb/cleric So 2 dps and a healer 😄

If you want to play meta comp do it, why force people into that though?

[woeful oriole]

My knife is rated E for everyone

[wintry forge]

Just a suggestion. I'm not dictating.

[frosty creek]

for fair matches
not fun to play vs 3 rogue or 3 wiz or 3 healer
they just feed

with 1 tank 1 healer 1 dps every one can do good 👍

[white cliff]

I don’t know how to respond to that.

[lusty wren]

Forcing comps does not force fair matches. There is literally 0 reason to force a friend group of 3 into roles they dislike

[soft relic]

3 rogues... feeds? When?

They must be bad rogues.

[white cliff]

I don’t see how forcing someone to play something they’re not comfortable with is helpful?

[jagged cobalt]

Having a healer isn’t even really necessary in pvp

[lusty wren]

Creates what he wants to get rid of "feeders"

[granite plinth]

3 rogues is fun

[sonic pendant]

it's simple, you just play too much overwatch and start to think that every game must force player's hands in class decisions.

[lusty wren]

If I am forced into a role im not good at im goign to play worse not better

The entire thing makes no sense

[white cliff]

It’s like when you’re trying to tell someone what to play in a video game like overwatch and leauge, and they swap and do bad regardless because they’re not comfortable on that pick.

[frosty creek]

then why every pvp game have this ?

[lusty wren]

What pvp games force you into a role you dont want to play?

YOu mean overwatchs dumb tank rule?

[woeful oriole]

3 rogues is best comp

[soft relic]

Not every PvP game does. Very specific games designed around those particular mechanics do. This game is NOT designed around those mechanics.

[white cliff]

The whole point about DnD is it’s not like any other game.

[woeful oriole]

3 hides + ambush

[ebon delta]

Yeah, book was very good as casting weapon... i see your points. But i still would like to punch people with books

[unreal canopy]

thank you.

[white cliff]

That’s why it’s so fun to play.

[sonic pendant]

you can just block this person with right click and move on. sadly on a public discord, this is increasingly more necessary.

[white cliff]

It got worse when the server died down.

[woeful oriole]

Contraversial take here, add a dodge similar to chivalry 2

[lusty wren]

How many games can anyone really name that forces players into specific roles?

[white cliff]

But I don’t have any problem telling him why his idea doesn’t work.

[sonic pendant]

it did. and half of them have zero - 10 hours in game and want to tell everyone else how to play

[soft relic]

MOBAs and Overwatch are designed to play around having specific team comps. Dark and Darker, fortunately, is not.

[lusty wren]

Even mobas though dont force you. I see people playing off meta shit in all the lanes.

[vestal thorn]

I love the visual idea of it yes 🤣 Bonk. Rogue dies.

[soft relic]

You can play just fine with 3 DPS or 3 tanks or even 3 clerics, and stomp on a team that is 1 tank, 1 dps, 1 healer.

[woeful oriole]

Actually two contraversial takes, chivalry 2 dodge + a stamina system

And if you dont know. The chivalry 2 dodge is literally a small quick step in one direction

[frosty creek]

it dont have to be NOW ... but later when we have pvp meta
even league of legends and dota dont have roles from the start
they put roles after players make a meta 👍
so iron mace can do the same

[white cliff]

The devs already said they’re not adding a stamina system.

[lusty wren]

Devs said no stamina system already so kinda moot point

[jagged cobalt]

Nope and nope

[woeful oriole]

Rip

[sonic pendant]

there was a guy in here complaining about how crossbows should work the other day. we were all like... that's how they work already. and he was like, oh ok i missed the playtest. lmfao

[granite plinth]

stamina management is cringe

[jagged cobalt]

Adding stamina and a dodge would change the game completely

[white cliff]

Slow gameplay plays slower.

[woeful oriole]

I think it'd be a good balancing mechanic for classes since that seems to be an issue

And yeah dodge would shake things up a bit

[lusty wren]

These are not forced roles. Which is why you see off meta characters being played where they "shouldnt" be

[white cliff]

It’s really hard to balance a game in a playtest because they’re not even sure what the game is going to be like in a few months.

[woeful oriole]

The gameplay would turn less into ambush and spacing and more action oriented

[sonic pendant]

stamina, weight, durability, and fall damage are absolutely not important to the future of this game, and most of them would hurt it.

[frosty creek]

they are ? u will get banned if u dont play real supp or tank top or mage mid
they can do the same for dnd so we dont have noobs 👍

[jagged cobalt]

I think the main dev has a vision..

[woeful oriole]

I agree with fall damage

Fuck that mechanic

[jagged cobalt]

Hopefully

[woeful oriole]

But at the same time it's fun watching someone break their leg

[sonic pendant]

not at the cost of eliminating all drop attacks from everyone.

[white cliff]

I don’t think any of those games ban you for meta exploration lol.

[lusty wren]

I agree with these but I go back and forth on fall damage

[woeful oriole]

@sonic pendant it is if they're the one whos drop attacking

[soft relic]

I will take two of my friends playing a dps fighter and a dps ranger with my rogue over forcing them to bring classes/setups they don't want to play any day. We'll win more.

[lusty wren]

They dont, its a silly take

[jagged cobalt]

I agree.

[white cliff]

Agreed.

[woeful oriole]

Add unqiue ground pound animation plox

[soft relic]

Forced roles doesn't help you "[not] have noobs." At all. 🤣