suggestion-discussion

[unique hazel]

Beyond letting you use any weapon

[muted crag]

Allows use of all weapons, -20% damage done.

Nerfed into the ground, dont take it.

[unique hazel]

You're given a perk... that gives you a benefit... but comes with a catch

Unlike literally every other perk in the game that has nothing but benefits.

[muted crag]

Yeah, on FIGHTER of all classes.

[jagged thunder]

barb only has 2

the other two are debuffs and useless

[verbal marsh]

What you don't understand is Fighter has Weapon Specialization, and when you take that perk you're essentially denying yourself.

[unique hazel]

what do you mean? Abilities?

[jagged thunder]

right misunderstood

[muted crag]

Youre giving your enemy 20% DR on top of their armor.

[cursive kayak]

It should only be -20% for bows.

[unique hazel]

Yeah i was about to say

I could live with that since he's a melee focused class to begin with.

[muted crag]

Just use crossbow, half the classes can use it and its goated.

[unique hazel]

yeah lol

[verbal marsh]

nah you're specialized in swords, its natural fighter isn't good with the rest.

[cursive kayak]

Only reason to take that perk is to use a bow

[unique hazel]

It's a lot better since the second to previous test

Crossbow is broooootal

[verbal marsh]

oh and the crossbow

[wary flower]

I have yet to test a fighter with shield and a nice dagger 🤯

[unique hazel]

I haven't seen anyone take a invis potion and just headshot instakill with it but you absolutely can

[cursive kayak]

Sacrificing a perk slot to use other weapons is more than balanced they should keep the -20% for bows though

[unique hazel]

yeah a dagger + shield would probably be meta for a solo fighter

[muted crag]

Nah, falchion phuqs.

[verbal marsh]

you dont need to use other weapons you're not specialized with unless you're just picking up random trash to use lol

[unique hazel]

Maximize DPS matters

[verbal marsh]

I mean Fighter is the only one who uses swords you do realize.

[unique hazel]

and being able to reform from an attack fastest so you can use your shield on demand

[lusty wren]

Fighter with dagger and shield is a dead fighter 😄

[cursive kayak]

The point is the perk is useless for other weapons only reason to use it is for a bow

[unique hazel]

Other weapons are much slower and there is no "Cancelling" it

daggers lets you get max use of your shield

[jagged cobalt]

Rangers can use arming swords

[muted crag]

Haseeb, you dont need the perk for crossbow.

[wary flower]

or sneak into dagger range after blocking with the shield

[verbal marsh]

I'm saying Fighter has Weapon Specialization with swords, so using a non specialized weapon means you get -20%...

[lusty wren]

I hope fighters start doing this, Will be a bunch of free kills 😄

[unique hazel]

yeah the -20% damage kinda kills it

I really dislike that

[muted crag]

20% multiplicative DR on top of your enemys armor.

[jagged cobalt]

Was the -20% new to this playtest? I don’t remember that being a thing in October

[muted crag]

Yeah

[unique hazel]

It's nothing like the barb shirtless perk

Because going shirtless HAS BENEFITS

[verbal marsh]

yeah

[minor pond]

It makes sense. They don’t want a ranger in full plate armour that can speed boost himself to be faster than an actual ranger

[unique hazel]

it's not a catch, it's a playstyle

But this perk is, imo, badly designed

[muted crag]

Going naked means speed.

[unique hazel]

-20% damage to ranged weapons it unlocks is more reasonable

[minor pond]

Yeah that’s fair, only -20% for ranged weapons. Normal for everything else

[jagged cobalt]

What melee weapons does it unlock?

[muted crag]

A lot.

[minor pond]

Barbarian and rogue stuff

[chilly nebula]

i feel like you guys all only main one class and want your class to be better

[muted crag]

Morning star, war maul.

[wary flower]

I actually like the -20%. Maybe I would adjust it to -15%, but having no debuff just give you access to way many good weapons 🔪

[muted crag]

I do main fighter, but I 20d all them this test.

[unique hazel]

Well fighter is a pure weapon master

the perk should reflect it appropriately

It's mastery not "dabbles"

[muted crag]

I got everything in the shop too.

[unique hazel]

And you are sacrificing the perk slot for weaker picks

nerfed

[lusty wren]

I mained fighter, and find this suggested change to be atrocious

[unique hazel]

I understand there's definitely a "logistic" benefit to being able to use basically every weapon

Maybe it really is just the amount of damage lost that's a bit overtuned

[muted crag]

But a fifth of your damage?

[verbal marsh]

It would take more to allow multi mastery then to simply have them be sword masters, imo maces should also receive the -20%

[unique hazel]

yeah brutal

[glacial bridge]

suggestions that increase options are worth considering. people requesting buffs is almost always bad

[muted crag]

Its not requesting a buff, its getting our base damage back.

[unique hazel]

The hidden benefit of having access to every weapon is if you find really good weapons you can be guaranteed to use them which may be better than your natural weapon selection I guess

[jagged cobalt]

Fighters with longbows were OP in October so I see why they added -20 dr

[lusty wren]

This is for sure a buff

[unique hazel]

Like finding a purple dagger with +5 damage etc

It may lose 20% damage but it's still on par with a blue equivalent weapon in theory

[verbal marsh]

The advantage is the windlass crossbow with true strike to make up for the difference.

[muted crag]

Nah, i did the math, a windlass -20% does less than normal.

[unique hazel]

Sounds about right

[wary flower]

and once you are loaded, you could bring multiple weapons into the dungeon and change them to counter any opponent
or just use the "best" weapon every season

[unique hazel]

windlass only does 15% more than crossbow on average

[jagged cobalt]

Reloading a windlass makes it not worth

[lusty wren]

and this is why it shouldnt exist 😄

[muted crag]

That and the crossbow is innate on fighter

[wise flame]

https://tenor.com/view/deluminator-lights-off-good-night-harry-potter-dumbledore-gif-13987013

This spell but for every light in the room for a few seconds

On a necro or warlock or some jazz

[wary flower]

have anyone tried to equip a book as a fighter? you read them to boredom-death or..?

[unique hazel]

I hate to say it but the -20% may be reasonable

[muted crag]

Were at an impass and I disagree.

[unique hazel]

It does end up with some silly situations

but the biggest benefit is being able to loot and use every great weapon you come across with high quality and enchants

no more leaving it behind or having to go and pawn it off

It should probably be -15% though

[muted crag]

Can someone tell me the damage of a unique war maul - 20%?

[unique hazel]

on par with losing a tier of quality in a weapon

20% is a tier + some

overkill

and im pretty sure each quality level is 10%

so it might be even more

[muted crag]

Imma look at this one sec.

[unique hazel]

@muted crag depending on how the calculation works
This perk could be partially bypassed with true damage enchants

if it really "adds" 20% to armor of player

[verbal marsh]

pretty big space safer for when you kill someone

[unique hazel]

or is a final calculation on weapon score

then that true damage still goes through for full

[muted crag]

Okay a unique war maul does 80 damage, take a fifth off that is 64. Thats the damage of so many other unqiue innate fighter weapons.

Faster too.

[unique hazel]

tbh 2h weapons are not a great comparison
most of those weapons are useless

[verbal marsh]

why use that when you can just use the zwei

[muted crag]

Yeah, why bother with that perk?

[unique hazel]

I suspect true damage building is best when using 'foreign' weapons

you partially bypass the debuff

adding more damage, you still lose a point every 5 you gain

but true damage makes sure that flat amount gets through every hit

daggers looking even nicer on fighter....

[verbal marsh]

its a perk to give you what you want, not what you need

[unique hazel]

but in general high hit rate, high speed, high recovery weapons are king in this game.

[muted crag]

Well if its shitty, its not what I want.

[unique hazel]

Dagger looks great on any class

[verbal marsh]

you're one step closer to not being a newb

[muted crag]

Fighters get castillions innate, thats uncastrated dagger enough.

[unique hazel]

oof

well castillion iirc has quite slow moveset

compared to stilleto

[verbal marsh]

castillion is made for running attacks you dont really need to aim it

[muted crag]

It has double damage on 3rd hit though.

If armor stays the same imma just use magic resistant stuff.

[verbal marsh]

then I stab you

[muted crag]

Its fine, same armor rating as everything else, ruggeds, leathers, gambeson, riveted, and barbute. Plenty of AP.

[unique hazel]

tbh fighter doesn't have a lot of toughness even with full armor it ends up at like... 20% with full white plate typically?

and like 100 HP

[muted crag]

Yeah, it all ends up around 30%

[unique hazel]

I 1 shot fighters all the time

It's hilarious

and vs mages he even has susceptibility

fucked up

[muted crag]

May as well take a little something lighter to move.

[verbal marsh]

I never saw armor go above 55% at most.

[wary shell]

you can get GIGA magic resist on barb

[unique hazel]

barbarian is just a better fight honestly
He has balanced resistance against everything with his armor having no weakness to magic

no shield? Who needs it

150 HP

fuck you

[muted crag]

Shield super good though.

[wary shell]

true for PvP

shield is great vs pve

[verbal marsh]

yeah I should've tried the full armor perks to see how high it goes hrm

[unique hazel]

The only weakness barb has is against ranger and to a lesser extent rogue (if the barb forgot his throwing axes and hatchet only)

[verbal marsh]

think you get additional 5% for shield, and 10% increase overall on armor? so fighter should be able to get around 70%

[muted crag]

Honestly, plate kinda sucka without extra armor enchants.

[unique hazel]

Yeah it makes you wayyyy too slow

and it just doesn't have enough resistance to make it worthwile

on top of magic weakness

[verbal marsh]

well it doesnt help when cleric is giving magic dmg to archers : |

[unique hazel]

it's crazy as fuck how much regal gambeson gives compared to plate

[muted crag]

Besides just taking a chest for the magic res on dark or templar.

Gambesons comfy as phuq.

[wary shell]

whats the best trio?

[unique hazel]

all benefits, close level of armor rating, just no -15% to projectile damage but that's WHAT A SHIELD IS FOR

[verbal marsh]

yeah is why imma try stacking resourcefulness next time so I can swap and bandage on a dime

[wise flame]

Yeah there were some some pretty distinct "This armor is by far best in slot" types.

Much as I loved Lightfoot Boots, Riveted Gloves, and Gambesons, would be nice to have more reasons to switch it up

[muted crag]

I just wanna stack + all attributes.

[unique hazel]

Heavy armor is just a trap in general unless it comes with significant movespeed enchants*
If you're slower it means anyone who has ranged options will just kite you to death

[verbal marsh]

I just want +3 with +3 all attributes for resourcefulness : P

[unique hazel]

I may have slaughtered a thousand players during last test as barb but it was thanks to using a hatchet and movespeed stuff
once you get in melee range everyone dies

But if you dont
You have no options

you just fall over

[lucid root]

what does resourcefulness do?

[verbal marsh]

open doors

[muted crag]

Interaction speed

[unique hazel]

and no amount of cleric buffing that barbarian with 10 heals and protections is gonna change that issue
You still just get kited to death without being able to run people down

[muted crag]

Whats the highest "+ all" you guys seen?

[unique hazel]

So movespeed is absolutely king in this game and damage resist from armor is pathetic for how little it gives

[lucid root]

Suspense is really firing suggestions out

[unique hazel]

brainblast:
Armor rating on individual areas should reduce the "root" timer when you get hit on that spot so you're harder to slow down with hits

[glacial bridge]

people have said physical armor later gets really strong, but magic resist is lacking. I didnt play much high armor fighter so idk

would be nice for the tradeoff of stripping down naked not be so obvious

[muted crag]

Armor rating kinda has deminishing and the exponential returns after a threshold, then back to deminishing.

[lucid root]

you think melee will be doing shit like armor swapping mid combat?

[unique hazel]

Like
What good is armor if you can just get shot and now you're slow for 10 years and get shot again

someone in full plate should more or less be powering through being shot by arrows with little to no slowdown

[lucid root]

like swapping out your plate with a gambeson really quick

[glacial bridge]

there is an equip duration, if that ever became an issue it would take 2 seconds to fix

[muted crag]

Its good when you get enough.

[unique hazel]

Yeah.... Im fine with you being slowed as current and usual from melee hits

It's ranged weapons that a guy in full plate should more or less be ignoring the rooting effect of

[lusty wren]

@wintry forge Like an ability that shuts off all lights or? What exactly do you mean by this suggestion?

[unique hazel]

Slow movespeed but no SLOWDOWN from being shot

[lucid root]

which light sources can't you shut off?

[glacial bridge]

there were some small candle doodads i noticed i couldnt turn off

[lucid root]

ahh

[unique hazel]

There's a few, some unusual torches, candles, etc

ADD WATER ARROWS

[muted crag]

Set pieces.

[lucid root]

water arrows O-O

[lusty wren]

last thing ranger needs is MORE utility 😄

[unique hazel]

Mage should be able to turn off torches with ice shard anyways

[lucid root]

rogue ability "douse" makes all nearby light sources go out, combine that with night vision perk and stab everyone in the dark london style

[glacial bridge]

Fireball should turn on torches / caskets etc.

[lucid root]

fookin london style mate

yeah i admit i tried lighting stuff with fireball

[muted crag]

Night vision perk? Mother fucker are you bloody mad?

[lusty wren]

ya night vision imo does not fit the game

[lucid root]

it got a lot of upvotes i was surprised

[muted crag]

Thats from rogue mains.

[jagged thunder]

rogue needs a man-catcher pole and shackles? idk why that was a reply

[lusty wren]

Popularity does not always = good though 😉

[lucid root]

i'm not a rogue main and i think its coo' 🤷‍♂️

[muted crag]

"Dark and Darker" not "I can see, you cant"

[lucid root]

maybe i'm just a masochist for wanting to be ganked by rogues

[muted crag]

Totally.

[lucid root]

i upvoted water arrows (:

probably the only upvote you're getting

[unique hazel]

Rogue is overrated. The only time I see people with that "omega killstreak rogue" is when they are in a three man with a cleric focusing on them

[lusty wren]

Someone got a link to the night vision suggestion?

[unique hazel]

meanwhile barbarian: Does the same thing completely alone

[lucid root]

there's two

[glacial bridge]

theres been many night vision suggestions

[lusty wren]

I need to make sure ive downvoted them all make it easy for me 😄

[lucid root]

#d-and-d-suggestions message

sure downvote away

[glacial bridge]

i just need a thermal scope mounted on my repeating crossbow

[lusty wren]

Hmm i did, but your cancelation of it makes me second guess it. It may be ok with that caveat, ill think bout it 😄

[unique hazel]

Clearly we need torch arrows

[lucid root]

immersive wallhacks

[wise flame]

Just make it so Barb's can spit really hard and put out the torches

[unique hazel]

His savage roar putting out all nearby torches with the sheer amount of spittle

[jagged thunder]

rogue stealth into a man catcher pole and voip tell them to drop their gear and the wiz and barb wont kill them

[lucid root]

i didn't see many wizard/barb teams

i feel like the barb is just going to always be in fireball range

[unique hazel]

because most people are selfish and wanna be the one doing the clicking on people's head

[jagged thunder]

wiz barb cleric was the team to run

[unique hazel]

pretty much

[lucid root]

someone suggested an assist leaderboard for that reason

[unique hazel]

haste on barb is brutal enough
If you ever saw a barbarian with the speed fountain you notice how he just straight up murders everyone soon after with 0 effort

having that on demand

• invisibility

that he can run through

hilarious shit

[jagged thunder]

barb has iron will with the buffs from cleric and wiz fireball wont do much

[unique hazel]

The thing to worry about is that lightning strike which appears to do about 120 damage

chain lightning?

anyways it 1 shots everyone but barbarian

[jagged thunder]

strike is hard to hit you need to catch them in a doorway

[lucid root]

I thought chain lightning was a 2 shot unless you're geared pretty well

[jagged thunder]

if youre buffed up youre probably gonna grey gear a squad no prob

unless they came ready and counter you

[unique hazel]

Never a pick a fight where you didn't already kill 1 guy with a cheap hit

[jagged thunder]

chain gonna kill the wiz too

[lucid root]

if you can kill one guy quickly it usually makes the rest of them panic for a second and thats usually all the time you need

[jagged thunder]

try to let one run off for some loot or catch them fighting a mob with one ont the other end of the mob

ive had long fights where it came to 3v1 and we lost

to a fighter

[lucid root]

you mean the balanced all round' fighter?

[jagged thunder]

rogue ranger fighter

fighter played ranger until he had to fight

[haughty bison]

isn't the fighter weak without gear? and you're without gear a large majority of the time

[lucid root]

#d-and-d-suggestions message
lol

[jagged thunder]

the rooms play a big part in the fight too with jail bars and traps everywhere

[wintry forge]

Yeah, this is what I was referring to.

[jagged thunder]

i feel like all classes are pretty balanced at grey starter gear

[vestal thorn]

a 3v1 should never play out in the favor of a solo, 3 players make mistakes that let the solo player kill them all or 1 of them if there isn't a trade. Basically always and how it should be. At the same token any class can 3v1 with skill gaps. all the video's of 3v1 are the 3 players over extending, not using ranged weapons to slow (barb mostly), not weapon sheathing, rangers not using traps and simply just letting solos extend into them.

[lucid root]

Never?

[vestal thorn]

Never if all players are equal skill

[haughty bison]

I found the fighter weak in pvp at the start then gets way better with gear then the inverse with the ranger, weak in pve but great in pvp until he gets gear and is great in both

[jagged thunder]

we ran out of spells and our ranger ran in to fight we were fighting for like 5 mins

[glacial bridge]

with an equal skill matchup, the solo player can win. sick of this argument every hour not going to elaborate again

[lucid root]

i need to fill my one suggestion a day quota, but i can't think of anything right now

[haughty bison]

don't respond to a topic you'd prefer not to talk about then 🤪

[vestal thorn]

A solo player gets stuffed in a 3v1, all things being equal. The 3v1 are of people trickling in vs 1 guy and dying like 99% on top of being out geared and outplaying all of them.

[haughty bison]

somthing with torches? how would you improve them or add another utility?

[jagged thunder]

ive dropped in solo and 1v3 sometimes you get killed

[glacial bridge]

i can respond to anything i feel like. even if its just to go on record saying this is a stupid premise

[red jewel]

Iron will is only 20% dmg reduction. cleric protection doesn't work against spells
Barbarians are EZ, I just juggle them with fireballs. Or arcane missile (3-4) kills if they're coming straight at me.
If they're not using a felling axe I'll just ignite stab them and kill them in less than one second

[haughty bison]

wasn't saying you can't, that's kinda an immature reponse, just saying it's better for your health to ignore topics that upset you lmaoo

[lucid root]

we dont have any flammable surfaces right now, maybe torches can be thrown eventually to light oil on fire or something

[haughty bison]

yesss

like those hanging oil pots in skyrim

use a throwing axe to knock it down, player gets a movement speed debuff in them

[glacial bridge]

if you are interested in a more mature response, scroll up and find the last 10 times someone made the same assertive statement because they were butthurt from a loss.

[haughty bison]

you throw a torch and boom**

skillful use of environment and skillshot

[jagged thunder]

youre gonna be hitting for another 20%less after a yell and the other yell is going to boost incoming attacks with all the buffs from wiz and cleric you get headshotted

[haughty bison]

gonna do what i recommend and just ignore convo's i don't wanna talk about haha

[lucid root]

he's evolving

[glacial bridge]

ill be here talking about actual suggestions to the game. if something stupid pops up, i might just say its dumb :)

[red jewel]

yell debuffs barb by 20%, dunno what you're talking about

[haughty bison]

how about useful feedback! 😄

[red jewel]

it's -20% nerf for the barb so you take more damage and i kill you even faster

[jagged thunder]

wrong build

[red jewel]

which yell are you talking about? Fear? only affects phys damage and does nothing against my mdmg

[jagged thunder]

hp boost and fear

[glacial bridge]

again, useful feedback to that is there if you scroll up to the last 10 times it was stated that 1v3's are simply impossible and theres nothing you can do about it

[red jewel]

You use HP boost and fear? for real?

[jagged thunder]

hp boost with berserk is going to boost max hp increasing ak% +axe and 2 handed

[haughty bison]

bro staph 🤣 🪤

[red jewel]

but make up your mind, you keep changing your build

[jagged thunder]

fear reduces your atack

[red jewel]

it does not

[jagged thunder]

ok

[red jewel]

only affects phys damage, no affect against wizards

[vestal thorn]

Best use of Fear is vs invis players

[jagged thunder]

maybe it doesnt and i read it wrong either way you still get one shot

since youre talking about your sword once i swing

[red jewel]

here's the thing about this game. you could do a billion damage but it means nothing if you don't have the movespeed to catch anyone

barbarian has the slowest base speed out of all classes. If you're using a felling axe you're even slower

[jagged thunder]

youre fighting a wizard and a cleric not just a barbarian...

[red jewel]

Your speed buff lasts 5 seconds. It only boosts your speed. Mine lasts 17-20s with will. It speeds my attack, casting, and speed. And I can chain cast it

Cleric doesn't help against mdmg

[vestal thorn]

I mean meta is move speed, Best barbs just use Hatchet, fanciscas and good weapon swaps. Pure move speed builds. Rest is just skill with terrain and timing.

[jagged thunder]

ok uber wiz you got it

[red jewel]

If I face stab you with ignite you're still dead in under a second

If you run straight at me, again, dead from 3-4 arcane missiles. Which I can chain cast back to back

[vestal thorn]

Wiz melee build is just aids cause of invis ambushes on people with 0 ears.

[haughty bison]

can throwing axes be used by barbs? when a player takes damage it slows them down so you can use those to try and catch someone with the sheath speed in between

[lucid root]

people got pretty good at following my footsteps eventually

[glacial bridge]

yes, they also gain the +10 damage axe mastery

[red jewel]

Throwing axes are decent, but they have extremely slow travel time

[haughty bison]

true

[red jewel]

So they're easy for a hasted wiz to dodge

[haughty bison]

that's why a racial perk of throwing item velocity would be cool

[jagged thunder]

barb is going to be coming at you with 6 buffs and die since youre uber wiz you got it

[vestal thorn]

I mean that's where skill comes in, much like how it's easy to see a good ranger vs random one. It's like the wizards who can headshot fireball you.

There's so many things players can determine by skill alone.

[red jewel]

None of those buffs help barb vs wiz, as it only affects phys damage. Rage actually makes you take 20% ALL damage, not just phys.

[jagged thunder]

youre talking about wrong builds and soloing a barb rushing at you not a team rolling you thinking youre the solo wizard god

[minor pond]

Anyone know if the candy canes were a seasonal thing or they are permanent? It would be really cool if the items changed depending on the time of year

[red jewel]

well i was #20 wiz. fought plenty of players and soloed teams 1v3 in high rollers.
Barbs are just free kills because they can never reach you.

If they're not holding a felling axe, I'm the one chasing them. And even if they have a felling axe, I pop invis, stab them on the side of the head and they're dead

[jagged thunder]

you get rolled fighting a mob or looting everytime

[red jewel]

The thing about swings in this game, is the slowdown when swinging occurs the moment you press attack. So I can just step outside of range of any barb attacks, which take forever. 1h barbs can't outdps ignited rondels

[jagged thunder]

youre not one shotting a buffed barb coming in with like 180hp

[red jewel]

I also run around with protection pots on. Which means I can eat 2-3 swings, but it doesn't work on your end, because magic damage pierces protection pots/cleric buffs

[lucid root]

weapon swings look so slow when spectating people

[jagged thunder]

cleric heals and a wizard behind the barb you die

[glacial sphinx]

weapon swings have to be slow to be deliberate and reactable, anything else it'll become a spam fest

[lusty wren]

Id say deliberate but ya you can use slow 😄

[minor pond]

It’s quite amusing that people think an 8ft tall barbarian wearing plate armour and carrying a giant 2h weapon should be able to catch a skinny dude in robes

[jagged thunder]

swing the two hand hammer on the cleric and it feels slower than it looks

[lucid root]

i'm watching some vods and spectating a cleric it looks like i'm watching slowmo lol

then it looks so awkward his body strafing around faster than his arm is swinging

[jagged thunder]

my wiz can chain lighting me 2 times into you and kill you @red jewel

[red jewel]

that's true, chain lightning is really powerful

or I can chain lightning you first, and kill all 3 of you because you're bunched up

[jagged thunder]

were coming in buffed to the max with the cleric pushing behind after they buff themselves

[normal plinth]

Seasonal it was candy corn in the previous play test

[jagged thunder]

barb looks like the easy taget and you find out hesa tank

[minor pond]

Okay bet 💪🏼 I wonder how people would feel about being able to spend them on things like a Santa hat, or a Halloween mask

I think it’d be fun

[lucid root]

what will valentines day candy be

[minor pond]

Those spicy heart things

[sonic pendant]

#d-and-d-suggestions message there's no spawn killing, only fight losing. i love starting a round with a battle in 20 seconds. if i win, it's already a great run. if i lose, well, i didn't waste time gathering loot for my murderers.

[uneven hearth]

You guys just love camping newbs... My suggestion is so fair. Assuming it's a good player, they are going to move out to avoid your 3 man group. However, you don't want the challenge so you're going to spawn kill them.

[lucid root]

"guys stop killing all the casual players in normal lobbies you're gonna drive away the playerbase 😭 "

reddit in a nutshell

[minor pond]

There 100% is spawn killing, mainly at the spawn with the barrels/vases blocking the way. If you spawn solo in the room with monsters then your absolutely fucked because that 3 man is gonna come smashing through the barrels and chase you before you even have a chance to run

[vestal thorn]

50/50 avoidable if you're rogue/wiz/ranger (door interaction) imo. But yes still hard if they camp both exits (pointless for them but it happens) You instantly hear any movement at that spawn from both sides so you know if you're in danger or not.

[uneven hearth]

Me, I prefer to be challenged. So, I don't get the desire to kill new players. I do understand how its currently made, you kind of have to go clear those spawns because if they are a 3 man team, they might gank you at the wrong time later.

However, my suggestion literally fixes that problem for solo* players.

[lucid root]

whats the worst spawn for solo's?

[uneven hearth]

Bottom right map 2

[sonic pendant]

i disagree. it's a team game. if you're going in solo, you're already agreeing to "hard mode." win the fight. don't bring in gear you can't afford to lose as a solo. i played 50/50 solo/teams, and i enjoyed all the pvp.

[minor pond]

Even 3v3 it’s still unfair because you have multiple monsters spawn at the same time they are coming through the barrels, and the monsters are targeted on you

[lucid root]

its like an entirely different game solo, more like a survival horror game

[minor pond]

That’s the only spawnpoint I have an issue with though

[sonic pendant]

tons of stuff is unfair. it's a difficult game, and it's never going to be balanced to the perfection you want as long as there's any PVE to worry about

[vestal thorn]

If you're the weaker team, you're supposed to run / reset? I don't understand why more people don't think retreating ( a lot farther than they think) isn't a viable strategy esp, early on or under geared. There's 0 reason to engage in that spawn.

[sonic pendant]

yea leaving is like... always an option. and there's two classes that can open doors instantly, maybe play one of them if you need to run away a lot

[vestal thorn]

that decision has to be made on spawn. Which most players don't do.

[sonic pendant]

or be a smart solo and bring invis pots

[minor pond]

You can’t retreat there my guy, and unless your ranger you can’t even run down the ramp to open the door down the hall because more skeles spawn down there, any other class gets smacked

[red jewel]

New players take portals if they survive. Everyone must die

[sonic pendant]

and then run away when they enter the room and leavve the door open

[spring mango]

ive been reading this chat for 10 seconds and all i have to say is

skill issue

[vestal thorn]

it depends on the class and mostly door open speed. Cleric would be hardest, ranger/barb/rogue can easily kite the mobs, stealth, and open the far door and run to the opposite end of the map honestly, something I always do if just doing naked runs. volume max, run a lot at start.

[minor pond]

There’s a difference between difficult and bad design, and that spawnpoint is bad design

[uneven hearth]

Okay, let's the get the number one player in the game spawning in solo. Gets flanked from both sides. By teams of three. What is the counter play?

[glacial sphinx]

think its silly to expect every fight you get into to be fair, but I could see the point about looking at spawnpoints for solos. However I feel thats only in the case where you get spawned into a position where you have literally no choice but to fight a 3 man team right away, which I think is either extremely rare or never the case.

[gray vessel]

I disagree completely lol

[junior hawk]

Do you guys think that a samurai type of class suits the game?

[red jewel]

Put your weapon away and run deep into the map

[sonic pendant]

"whenever i 1v3 as a solo, they all get to attack me at the same time. this game should be turn based, or solo players should get a 3x movement/attack speed"

[red jewel]

Or if you're a wizard just kill everyone

[junior hawk]

I just suggested what such class and it's weapon can have

[uneven hearth]

You can't. You are flanked on both sides. You just spawned in. You have to fight one group. Even if you were a group of 3 and flanked by two groups instantly. There is no counter play.

[red jewel]

Those spawns don't exist anymore

[lusty wren]

@junior hawk Its a subclass for fighter in DnD I feel it should stay there if it comes into DaD as a subclass not a base class

[glacial sphinx]

does that ever really happen though? I feel like its either super rare or n ever happened to me ever

[sonic pendant]

then the game ends and you start another IN LIKE 18 SECONDS so much crying about solo spawns geez

[glacial sphinx]

so maybe you just go next if you get a 1 in 100 horrid spawn

[sudden fractal]

#d-and-d-suggestions message
damn i wasnt expecting such negative feedback on this

i thought it was an ok idea

[red jewel]

There's only one spawn (vase/boxes) spawn where two teams start off near each other, but even that one you can run straight into the map if you hear people

[gray vessel]

Either he has good gear and can win the fight, or he has no gear and dying/reseting is not a big deal

[sonic pendant]

crossbows DO NOT NEED A BUFF. one-tap headshots on blues or better, for the most part. they need a nerf, if anything.

[uneven hearth]

It honestly is when it could be remedied so easily. My suggestion does that.

[spring mango]

the counterplay is play smarter, dont rely on spawns and devs to make the game easier for you

what i like to do as a solo is if i hear players i immedietly find a dark hiding spot to ambush and hide

[glacial sphinx]

I guess its kinda vague and people only think of it like a crossbow shooting thrice, which makes no sense physically plus would be OP.

[sudden fractal]

thats why i added that what it would actually do would be upto debate

[uneven hearth]

I know how to counter play. I made the top 100 boards.

I'm suggesting a way that will solve the problem for solos and newbs.

[sudden fractal]

i was thinking something tame like next shot reloads 20% faster

[uneven hearth]

It's fixes it.

[lucid root]

just be more specific on what you want it to do, instead of opening up the discussion through a suggestion, thats kind of what this channel is for so you can work out what the suggestion should be first

[glacial sphinx]

well thats why I mean its a vague suggestion, maybe with a fitting idea it could get more support

[spring mango]

the problem is, is that crossbows deal heavy damage already when they hit

adding quickfire or multishot to it would be op for a class thats already hard to balance

[gray vessel]

I think you just worded it poorly, people make assumptions and by how you worded it, it seems like you want crossbows to have triple shot. Which would be way too op. Instead you could word it like "There should be more abilities for crossbows" and that would get much more popularity

[uneven hearth]

Yeah yeah I know... trolls. Got to love them.

[lucid root]

crossbows you can move while reloading right?

[minor pond]

All the guys claiming skill issue etc never made the leaderboards or understand how being put at pure disadvantage the second you spawn is not good design. If you had the option to run or fight it would be okay. But the only option you are given at that spawnpoint is the fight for your life

[sudden fractal]

idk im thinking ppl just dont know how to read lmao, but alas, ig ppl think crossbows are strong enough atm, understandable

[sonic pendant]

this. never suggest a specific buff to add, those almost always get tanked in voting. general concepts seem to go ovver much better

[spring mango]

only for the small one

[sonic pendant]

only the regular one. the big, better windlass you stand still for like 6 secs

[sudden fractal]

i for one thought crossbows were massively under used tbf

[glacial sphinx]

Its because if you say "add an ability" people will input their own imagined ability rather than yours, which they'll agree with.

[agile seal]

only underused because of limited drops

[sudden fractal]

a longbow that does 50dmg per hit that u can shoot 3 times rapid fire seems pretty busted to me

ALOT more busted than a 50dmg crossbow that can only shoot once

[lucid root]

@agile seal yeah i always thought it was weird that arrows are unlimited

[glacial sphinx]

xbow has other advantages and disadvantages compared to longbow

[gray vessel]

don't forget the longbow has more projectile speed too 😂

[sudden fractal]

exactly

and shoots at a much faster pace than a crossbow

[sonic pendant]

you don't have to be on the leaderboard to disagree with someone. maybe we should make a separate channel for "leaderboard" players to share their infinitely more valuable opinions. the rest of us plebs who just had fun and didn't care about their K/D can keep to ourselves. such snobbery. there's nothing wrong with getting into a fight immediately. how is it any less fair than when you bump into that same group 5 minutes later when there''s a wraith chasing you and archers on your ass? it's not. it just makes the round shorter for the loser, and better for the winner. win win, imo.

[agile seal]

shouldn't xbow have faster than normal bow... considering xbow uses mechanical design that is stronger than what human can theoretically can pull its string

[sonic pendant]

not evven a little bit?

not even kind of ?

no

[lucid root]

yeah i thought crossbow bolts are much faster initially but their energy potential drops off earlier

[sonic pendant]

show me how.

[sudden fractal]

personally, my take on all this

skill issue

[sonic pendant]

the projectiles DO move faster, if that's what you mean, but they certainly shouldn't reload/fire faster.

[glacial sphinx]

the advantage of crossbow is higher damage and the fact that its pre drawn

[agile seal]

reload? no. fire faster? my man xbow only needs to pull triger

there shouldn't be firing delay animation

[sonic pendant]

there isn't one.... it's instant.

[agile seal]

thens its fine

[uneven hearth]

What's wrong with making something fair?
Spacing out the spawning points if there are 3 man teams makes sense for balance.
The only reason you wouldnt is if you wanted specifically to fight spawn kills which overwhelming effects solo players. This hurts the player base as a whole and makes the game less fun.

[sonic pendant]

wait have you not played the game and you're in here? lol

[agile seal]

r u implying that i have to use xbow to give wep logic feedback?

[lucid root]

kind of, to understand how it works

in the game

[agile seal]

next thing i can't say knife throw should be faster than axe throw?

sry i didn't have time to test xbow considering i only found it twice

on non-ranger

[lucid root]

can watch some vids too

[sudden fractal]

imo everything is as balanced as it can get in its current state, and im perfectly happy for it all to remain unchanged until some gamebreaking exploit comes around that will force some nerfs to come

EXCEPT FROM ignite dmg scaling

[fickle gorge]

Or, they could just learn here in conversation without you antagonizing 🤔🤷

[lucid root]

true

[glacial sphinx]

i think added damage in general is too plentiful or strong as a stat

[sudden fractal]

id be happy if they removed ignite, or replaced with something completely different

[uneven hearth]

Thankfully, the suggestions are determined by the devs.

[lucid root]

really wasn't expecting ignite to get this much attention, i stopped running it when my spells started destroying people

[normal plinth]

The problem right now is that the lower end crossbows are nearly unusable but when buffing them I wouldn’t want the the higher end god roll ones to get any buff because people currently just switch to them and one tap people point blank with them since they have such high damage (not sure if I Englished this right )

[sudden fractal]

ignite only becomes insanely strong when u have lots of magic power stat, it can make a green rondel dagger do upto 70dmg per hit

which it should

[vestal thorn]

I think if you wanted to kill the invis wiz melee dagger build, you could suggest while Ignited you can't invis. 🤣 This would probably be enough to balance it. Don't think it needs it though even though it does sometimes feel bad.

[sudden fractal]

but not to this extent

[lusty wren]

Whil hasted you cant be invised is much better and remove the speed buff to invis

[sudden fractal]

hmmm maybe, but that would remove a whole playstyle

well, not rly actually

no now that i think ab it thatd be a good change

[lusty wren]

There is 0 reason a wiz should be able to invis and haste they need to not stack

[vestal thorn]

Yeah exactly, I'm not in favor of removing the build diversity yet. Esp not until we see the rest of the clases.

[sonic pendant]

wizards will be nerfed next test for sure. they were too much fun this go around.

[sudden fractal]

u can still run invis haste with no ignite and do well as wiz

[sudden fractal]

fun =/= op

[glacial sphinx]

dnno its really enjoyable is one reason, I just think wiz benefited extremely from added damage scaling being out of control

[lusty wren]

being enjoyable is no reason to keep it. Its very OP. And a simple thing to put wiz in a much better spot without ruining what it does best

[sonic pendant]

yes you can. i ran an 11g spellbook the whole playtest. tons of 1v2s, even a few 1v3s, and i'm thoroughly mid. i didn't even have zap, most of the time, due to knowledge. just haste/invis/fb/mm.

[agile seal]

wiz meditate should be removed - it's imba for mage to spell cast all the way to the exit

imagine if cleric had such skill

[sudden fractal]

horrible take

[glacial sphinx]

being enjoyable is the best reason to keep things, and no meditate should not be removed its a great mechanic

theres risk/reward and spells counts still feel meaningful

[sonic pendant]

absolutely atrocious. completely class breaking. you can burn all your spells on ONE fight.

[lusty wren]

OP is always enjoyable to the person playing it. By this logic you just want your class to be OP 😄

[agile seal]

it already 1/2 shots

[lucid root]

nobody would use their spells except for players if you took out meditate, just crossbow wizards everywhere lol

[agile seal]

there is spell limit for reason

meditate breaks that balance

[lusty wren]

Then so does camp fires

[sudden fractal]

if ur bad then yeah but its a very valid point

[sudden fractal]

campfire is a consumable tho

[agile seal]

campfire requires inventory and also provides health boost

[sonic pendant]

oh no i was agreeing with you, meant to quote the guy you were quoting. medi is a must

[agile seal]

also campfire has cost associated

meditate does not

[glacial sphinx]

I dont think its only fun cause its strong though, I think squishy characters need some mechanics to be slippery and I think its way better than giving wizards a teleport or a damage reduction for example. I just think wizards damage is broken with enough added damage because they have a spell with a ton of hits and ignite

[lusty wren]

cost is you are very vulnerable while sitting on ur ass

[agile seal]

so does campfire

[sudden fractal]

yeye ik u were dw haha

[lusty wren]

Invis alone gives you slipperiness as does haste alone. They shouldn't stack because it becomes OP

[sudden fractal]

campfire and meditate are the only 2 ways to get ur spells back

ONLY 2

[agile seal]

remove meditate, add shrine that refills spell

[sudden fractal]

thats already SO MUCH LESS than any other game would provide u

[lucid root]

until they add some mana potion

[agile seal]

maybe mage should rely more on campsite then free skill

[lusty wren]

its not free

[sonic pendant]

ugh i give up on this channel gg to the sane folks who don't want everything tailored to their weaknesses

[sudden fractal]

^

[lusty wren]

Skills are a trade off. If you choose one you lose the other. That is not free

[sudden fractal]

can we just discuss goblins

[lucid root]

loot goblins, also a goblin king boss

[agile seal]

what else that is better than meditate?

[sudden fractal]

u dont seem to realise that if u remove meditate that would leave room for players to use other skills, which idk if u realised are CRAZY powerful if used correctly

[lusty wren]

The best wizards I know dont even run med

they rely on campfires

[lucid root]

O_O

[sudden fractal]

players dont use them cuz they play it safe and they dont take risks

if u force people into using those skills then

well done

[lusty wren]

Each person in the party brings one for him 😄

[sudden fractal]

u just buffed every wiz

u gotta think about these things

adverse effects

[lusty wren]

Only mediocre wizards ran med 😄

[lucid root]

you trollin'

[lusty wren]

Nope

[sudden fractal]

u got a point

[lusty wren]

the best wizards i seen in the game dont run it

[sudden fractal]

mediocre does not mean bad btw

the rly HARDCORE wizards didnt take it

[lusty wren]

Ya i never said bad

[sudden fractal]

cuz they prefer to have the jump with an insta cast

[lusty wren]

That shit is way stronger then med

cus you still have campfires

med is a trap

😄

[agile seal]

practically anything that changes current state is bad apparently

1. add dura
2. no free ammo
3. no free meditate
4. add soloq

[sudden fractal]

imagine a wiz just fuckin domes u with 2 chain lightnings within 1 second?

[agile seal]

come at me bros

[sudden fractal]

jesus fucking christ my eyes

im gna have to bleach them after reading those

[lusty wren]

calling meditate free is a fucking joke in itself

you have to lose the best shit for it

free meditate is a campfire 😄

[vestal thorn]

Durability in games is usually just an annoyance 99% of the time is the problem. It doesn't add enough gameplay value to dev time other than a gold sink.

[lusty wren]

you pay next to nothing for it

[sudden fractal]

1: useless addition, u wont ever be able to fully use up a weapon before u died anyway. and it will make weapons less valuable
2: that would make bow weapons useless. completely useless.
3: we discussed this already.
4: get good

[lusty wren]

id way rather pay 20 gold for a campfire then to nerf my build by taking med

[vestal thorn]

Also of course no meditate builds are good, you just limit the speed of encounters and it's super greedy. Meditate has to cost a lot for how good it is.

[lusty wren]

Which is does it costs a shit ton to take med over your other options

if you got time to med you most likely got time to campfire 😄

[vestal thorn]

Yeah people just don't understand how well the game is balanced currently. I'm actually shocked how good it was over this alpha. Was my first time.

[glacial sphinx]

well campfire also has a cost in potions/bagspace, theres always a tradeoff

[lusty wren]

Yes the point is its a vastly lower cost then med is

[sudden fractal]

also campfire can be used by multiple people, meditate cannot

[lusty wren]

you lose 20 gold instead of a much better skill

[glacial sphinx]

and maybe with a skill tree there will be further tradeoffs, like could see some talents affecting meditation or something

[sudden fractal]

so in general, campfires are better than meditate lol

especially if u use a blue campfire

[glacial sphinx]

but yeah its clearly not "free spells"

[glacial bridge]

Wizard/Ranger duos are the easiest combo too

life is just good lol

[agile seal]

what other option do wiz have? they only have 2 option - med or instant cast

also med is unlimited use unlike campsite

idk how ppl can justify med has cost

fighter can only use 50% hp gain once per dungeon run

ranger jerk only has 3

[glacial sphinx]

just sitting down and channeling is a cost, not taking instant casts is a cost. So yeah it has an opportunity cost

[agile seal]

but med tho? onos

so you compare to camp site

has gold + initial placement AND sitting down

med? you just sit

[sudden fractal]

second wind can be recharged with a campfire.

so does ranger

[agile seal]

so can spell

so remove med

[sudden fractal]

yup

[glacial bridge]

gold doesnt really mean anything, the delay of placing campfire is a cost

[agile seal]

campsite is balanced

[sudden fractal]

but spells are a CORE part of wizard, do u not understand?

[agile seal]

what about cleric?

[warm atlas]

wizard invi just 1 charge

[sudden fractal]

imagine if wizard couldnt do magic

[agile seal]

Do you want cleric med?

no

y should wiz?

[sudden fractal]

its not needed

[agile seal]

literally you can spam fireball all the way to exit

[sudden fractal]

do it then and see how you fair lol

[agile seal]

if you can carry unlimited nukes, there's no balance

[sudden fractal]

they are only nukes if u hit them

and they only hit u, if u dont know how to dodge or you have horrible luck/positioning

[agile seal]

raising the goal post now?

[lucid root]

how many spell charges does a campfire recharge?

[agile seal]

logic is "med has cost" to "well... you gotta hit it tho"

[glacial bridge]

1.25 fireballs for a full meditate. not sure about campfires

[sudden fractal]

depends on rarity of campfire, but i believe its at the same rate as meditate. not sure tho

[agile seal]

you can buy campfire

[sudden fractal]

bcuz campfire rarity only determines how long the campfire lasts for and not how fast it regens

[lucid root]

with good stats you can meditate pretty fast, but that probably goes for campfire too

at least the placement

i think if you're running solo, campfire would be kind of dumb

team then yeah it makes sense

[sudden fractal]

listen, no one other than you has ever complained about meditate being an OP skill, and same goes for clerics, ive not heard a cleric complain that they dont have meditate

infact most clerics ive played with didnt even know campfires regened their spells lol

and they never felt like their amount of spells was unbalanced

[jagged thunder]

you also have a leaf by your name

[sudden fractal]

idk why i joined a week ago lol

[agile seal]

r u sure? you can literally search meditate and search by the oldest

i see ppl qqing since sept

[lusty wren]

Do you understand how strong insta cast is? especially when everything good about med is already in a campfire? 😄

[agile seal]

yes thank you

lets nerf instant cast

[lusty wren]

no

its fine

[sudden fractal]

ohhhh i see

[lusty wren]

its a trade off

[sudden fractal]

this guy is just mad cuz he gets fucked by wizards all the time lol

[glacial bridge]

didnt this convo stem from saying that Meditate is mandatory and you should never use instant cast???

[sudden fractal]

so he wants them nerfed to the ground

[lucid root]

whats the cooldown on intense focus?

[lusty wren]

The only tweak needed to wiz is haste and invis should NOT stack

[sudden fractal]

thats the insta cast right? i think its quite short but im not sure

[sudden fractal]

ALOT of ppl would be mad about that haha

[jagged thunder]

idr prob like 45 secs

[sudden fractal]

i had an idea to make wizard invis pulse an outline of your character every second or so

so its still very difficult to see but not 100% invisible

some ppl didnt like that idea tho

[lucid root]

you know i can see a case where i'd run intense focus, just run to the nearest 3 man, run past all the mobs. nuke the 3 man and grab the gear, hide until blue stone spawns

[sudden fractal]

and by "outline pulse" i dont mean literal outline, more like how things look when you look through heat? idk what that effect is called lol

[lusty wren]

Alot of people get mad at any balance changes they will get over it. The two are to strong in conjunction

I liked the outline idea

but dont think haste fits with invis at all

so I downvoted 😄

[sudden fractal]

o haha

well fair

[lusty wren]

to be honest 😄

which probably isnt fair

[sudden fractal]

idk i feel like wizards have so little health and defense that being able to run away from a fight like that is something needed for them

[lusty wren]

I upvoted your last one to make up for it HAHAHA

[sudden fractal]

thanks <3

[lusty wren]

They can run from a fight with just hatste though, they can also get out of a fight with just invis

[lucid root]

game is perfectly balanced ™️

[lusty wren]

I get out of lots of fights on rogue with just hide

They have a better invis cus it adds speed already

[sudden fractal]

hmmmm, what do u think of just not being able to equip both of them at the same time?

unless u take spell capacity 2

[lusty wren]

I dont mind them being equipped at the same time. Just if you haste yourself and then invis the invis should override the haste

[sudden fractal]

so u can only equip 1 tier of spell per spell wheel

[lusty wren]

They could still be useful in seperate situations though

[sudden fractal]

so same would go for chain lighting and fireball, u can only equip one

[lusty wren]

invis already has a speed enhancement component

[sudden fractal]

thats the risk reward factor

[lusty wren]

adding haste just makes it fucking crazy

[sudden fractal]

it does? i never noticed that

[lucid root]

yeah it does

haste, invis and put weapon away you run insanely fast

[lusty wren]

its just TOO fast. Wiz is very strong as is, it does not need them to stack

[sudden fractal]

wait, invis is a tier 4 spell?

[lusty wren]

I coudl get behind the equip idea

yes

haste is t3

and invis is 4

[sudden fractal]

damn wtf

[lucid root]

a lot of people suggested making invis debuff your speed which i like

[sudden fractal]

yknow, that would be a decent change then imo. only being able to equip 1 of each tier of spell

[lusty wren]

I could get behind this idea

[glacial sphinx]

rather they just move invis to tier 5 or 6 or something, leaving it the same and nerfing added damage/ignite then see how wiz is

[lusty wren]

i just dont know the reprecussions for other spell casters right off hand

[sudden fractal]

just checked the wiki and turns out chain lightning is tier 6 and fireball is t4

we dont even have a t5

[lusty wren]

corect

chain is massively strong though it should stay there

[sudden fractal]

fax

[lucid root]

any wizard nerf gets downvoted into the ground 😂

[sudden fractal]

and most people dont even know how to use chain lol

[lusty wren]

Fire could be a 5 imo

or invis

[sudden fractal]

if the tiers stay as they are rn, then u would have to choose either invis or fireball

[sudden fractal]

did any of u know that u can chain lightning off dead bodies on the ground?

it arcs to players thru bodies, u can dmg players behind walls if they just killed a mob and u see the body

[lucid root]

how many times does chain lightning arc

?

[sudden fractal]

alot

never seen it hit a limit

so in theory u could trail bodies from 1 end of the map to another and do dmg

[lusty wren]

LOL

[sudden fractal]

i havent EVER seen a player utilize this

silly wizards

[lucid root]

pair that with necro and your chain lightning follows the necro summons into the room of players youre trying to kill

[sudden fractal]

they dont even know how op their kit is lol

[sudden fractal]

fax

damn thatd be sick as fuck

[lucid root]

Graysun is watching in disappointment

[sudden fractal]

but srsly, does anyone know this?

i should be keeping this lil secret to myself for the next playtest tbf lol

[sterile idol]

3 times

It's mentioned in CL's description

[sudden fractal]

ooo fr?

[sterile idol]

I mean

[sudden fractal]

i swear ive seen it arc more than that

[sterile idol]

if it was infinite you could destroy every room in 2 shots

[sudden fractal]

"Chain Lightning - 4 Casts - Light
Electrocutes, dealing spell damage and fires lightning that is transferred to others within 400 meters and shocks up to 3 times."

thats what description says

it "shocks" upto 3 times

not chains

idk if thats just lost in translation tho?

bcuz i mean 400 meters is DEFINITELY wrong lmao

i thought shock was a tick after u get hit

like fire ticks

[sterile idol]

no

shocks = hit someone with CL

And the same target can't be hit by the same CL twice

[sudden fractal]

ye we know that 100%

hmmmm

id take the spell descriptions with a grain of salt tho

[lucid root]

"There are either mages who pull off insane 1v3s or guys accidentally grief their own team and kill themselves. there is no inbetween." my favorite quote

[sterile idol]

why with a grain of salt ?

[sudden fractal]

not all wizards are born equal

[sterile idol]

mistranslation aside for the "shock" part

[sudden fractal]

"transferred to others within 400 meters"

i dont think the map is even 400meters

[sterile idol]

I think they forgot to divide by 100

4 meters is more reasonable

[sudden fractal]

yeah

but still, if they made a mistake like that there, who knows where else they made a mistake

thats why u should take em with a grain of salt

[sterile idol]

There's something weird though

I'm looking at some spell guides on youtube

and in one of them the guy is close to the monsters and get hit by CL twice

By close i mean close enough to kiss them

[sudden fractal]

maybe a bug

[sterile idol]

Nah

[lucid root]

so if there's only 2 players does it bounce off the second guy and hit the first guy again totaling 3 shocks?

[sterile idol]

i think the shock in itself does contact damage

[lucid root]

so the first guy takes 2 shocks?

[sterile idol]

https://youtu.be/yz8fylaEo9E?t=311

Look at the HP bar

[sudden fractal]

man

pay attention

[sterile idol]

😔

[sudden fractal]

he got hit by the skeleton

[sterile idol]

💀

[sudden fractal]

lol

[sterile idol]

Skill issue on my part

[sudden fractal]

its ok haha

we all make silly lil mistakes

[lucid root]

i need to watch some of these clips in super slow mo to see what the arc is doing

[vestal thorn]

Pretty sure one hit is the Skeleton.

[sterile idol]

ye

[sudden fractal]

get with the times brah

[lucid root]

i love the library room, loot up on jewelry, kill some mage mobs, steal their book if they have one

[lime swift]

I think there should be guns with lasers personally

[lucid root]

frickin sharks with frickin laser beams

[sudden fractal]

i just wanna cosplay goblin slayer man for fucks sake

[lusty wren]

Library room is great cus you can fill entire inventories full of trinkets then just look for fights the rest of the map

[lime swift]

cant blame you there

[sudden fractal]

god hes so hot

[lime swift]

WE NEED GOBLINS ASAP

[lucid root]

https://youtu.be/s4dKRbjSGuM?t=10419

look at how fucking fast this guy moves with speed shrine and haste

[gloomy fable]

lil green murder hobbits

[lucid root]

straight up hunts a guy down that was like 100 feet away lol

[wise flame]

Barb with Haste, Speed Shrine, and Rage, now that was a good time

[jagged thunder]

barb fully buffed with your wizard casting chain lighting at you and your cleric healing you is devastating

[lusty wren]

Can you define? squished like spiders? You mean just tankiness right? Sorry if its obvious I am pretty stoned 😄

[glacial bridge]

my brother suggested that you could jump on spiders since theyre always right at your feet

[inland pelican]

The theory would be because they are at least the size of your shoe, and the spiders are mummy spiders, so undead, squishing wouldn't work

[lucid root]

Do a belly flop on them and get mummy spider guts all over you

[vivid scarab]

Lol

Barbarian gets special move belly flob

Deals 75% damage and 5% chance to stun target

[vivid scarab]

How does that sound

[lucid root]

Dropkick like dying light

Name your character after a WWE wrestler

[lusty wren]

I dont see why people struggle so much with the spiders 😄

They hit like wet noodles

[lucid root]

People complaining they have arachnaphobia, just wait until the spider boss 😏

Instead of a boss room it's a series of tunnels and Shelob from lotr chasing you down

[glacial bridge]

in a world that mimics exist, spiders are the least of your worries

[lusty wren]

queue the "THATS NOT HOW PHOBIAS WORK" crowd

[jagged thunder]

lol yea i meant like goblins with spider hp

[lusty wren]

ya, ok that seems fine to me

gobbos are classic enemies so they are a must add imo

[glacial bridge]

lol fair, but the game is called Dark and Darker and will only introduce more and more horror monsters. Its just not the type of game that i care about catering towards peoples phobias

[lusty wren]

I 100% agree. Plenty of games out there that are catering to the masses. Its nice having developers that are willing to fill a niche

[glacial bridge]

someone suggested a trap room where the walls close in on you. I will happily upvote that because it sounds fun in a video game. Sorry to those who are claustrophobic

[lusty wren]

Eh, i disliked many of that suggestions rooms. I think trap rooms like they have right now are much better

[jagged thunder]

add more traps, flame walls, pitfalls, smoke traps

[lusty wren]

id be fine with add more traps as long as that doesnt mean add more spikes 😄

[jagged thunder]

pitfall into spike trap

[lusty wren]

I find that to be fine, I just dont want to see every hallway have wall spikes LOL

[jagged thunder]

wall spikes that dont show up on the mini map... we have those

[glacial bridge]

ide like some cracked floor stones that collapses into a pitfall rather than the circle holes we currently have

[jagged thunder]

into a fire pit

[glacial bridge]

⁽ʷᶦᵗʰ ˢᵖᶦᵏᵉˢ⁾

[jagged thunder]

floor traps that send you to downportals

[lusty wren]

I want to slay a dragon

😄

[jagged thunder]

same, fight over who gets to slay the dragon

[lusty wren]

I mean you guys seen that dragon on the load screen for high rollers right?

I want to fight that

[jagged thunder]

dev said they want the dragon in the game someday

would like to have it

5 man mandatory queue 20man lobby 1 dragon

maybe some small drakes or something

[fickle gorge]

Shouldn't have to have 5 people, but this is a cool idea. Maybe 3 people mandatory queue for 15 people lobby. 5 groups of 3, to go along with the 3man queue now

[jagged thunder]

i just like playing with more people so i said 5, 3 man would be fine too

id like to see how a 6v6 plays out

maybe 4 since its a dragon

[lucid root]

maybe a boss eventually where 3 isn't enough and enemies might have to cooperate to kill it

then they kill each other afterward if they want

still 3 man parties but just temporarily working together to kill a certain boss

[restive condor]

Based on how often I see teams of 3 accidentally meleeing each other already I could see this falling apart REAL fast every time.

[lucid root]

that just makes it even better

god i love how cruel this game is

[restive condor]

Naw, would just lead to people finding ways to cheese the bosses with 3

[lucid root]

if they can, great

but if its so ridiculously overtuned that there's no way to kill it with 3, all doors lock when boss fight initiates, nothing to climb on to cheese AI, then it'd be fun times

hey nobody says you have to fight it

i miss the og mmo's where certain bosses would take months to figure out

[lusty wren]

To make it that strong youd have to use some real lame mechanics 😄

[lucid root]

Fuck yeah

[lusty wren]

if 3 or 4 groups with no comms can do it 1 group with comms can do it 😄

unless you use lame ass mechanics

[lucid root]

I'm tryin to make some people quit the game here

Give it that annoying mechanic where if you don't kill it in time it full heals

[lusty wren]

STOP! JUST STOP!

😄

[lucid root]

Oh yes rage timer can't forget that

[lusty wren]

TBH id like the dragon to be a thing where you have to be the last one alive on the map to open the door or some shit.

NO red circle in that room just your group vs the dragon after fighting for the right to fight it

[mental valley]

Meme Channel

[lucid root]

Wait they're going to have a dragon boss?

[mental valley]

They want to

[lucid root]

Hmm what else should this impossible boss have...

[lusty wren]

ya and its on a loading screen 😄

You put it on a loading screen for a game inspired by DnD i better get one

[mental valley]

I'd want a boss to be so insane, it'd require a full team of high DPSers to kill it, or two separate teams to do so.

[lucid root]

Or a boss that requires a gimmick team of all clerics or something because you can only damage it with heals

[mental valley]

The devs, IIRC, said something like "This is not explicitally a PvP game." So yeah, a boss that requires multiple groups would sound cool.

Of course, personally, I'd immediately turn on the other group after the boss is dead

[lucid root]

I feel like guilds would make it pretty easy, you'd have some friendly teams ready to go

Damn you guilds!

[lusty wren]

Id rather have to fight the other people before the boss tbh. Id hate to have to rely on a bunch of randoms to not be ass to kill the boss

[mental valley]

If they're in the 3rd level trying to fight the boss, you think they'd be bad?

Maybe 4th level, depending

[lucid root]

Oh man just imagine the hell trying to synch up a lobby, then trying to get all of your group actually there, then hope to God you can kill it

[lusty wren]

infernal isnt that hard

[mental valley]

It isn't that hard if you know what's happening

[lusty wren]

People solo infernal its not a metric for a "raid boss"

or how well a team would perform in one

[jagged thunder]

i was thinking of something similar with voip, how would the loot work though, were definitely fighting over the loot

[mental valley]

Hence, the turn at the end

[lucid root]

Chaos chaos chaos

[mental valley]

Rogues should be pickpocketing their teammates.

[jagged thunder]

allday

sorry! swings axe

[lusty wren]

nah the good teams will let the boss get dinked up a bit then turn on the other team when they have boss aggro 😄

which would be fine. I just find raid boss in this setting to be lame. Rather fight all the people and be rewarded with a chance at the dragon

[jagged thunder]

id tk them

[jagged thunder]

let them kill the boss completely and kill them while theyre looting

[lusty wren]

Nah, they are going to expect to fight. No one with a brain is gonna just start looting with other teams there 😄

They gonna fight

it will be very rare to not see it

[jagged thunder]

theyll be weak or low on spells

maybe short a player

[mental valley]

I've seen wizards bash people's faces in

A stick to the face hurts

[lucid root]

I got a pretty good pokey stick on my wizard, just the one though

[jagged thunder]

with 5 3man parties fighting a boss with 1 or 2 parties just sitting in the corner like a wave if you can kill the first couple parties

[lusty wren]

sounds lame

😄

[lucid root]

I guess I did come up with my one daily suggestion, yall thought I was memeing

It would be so fun to be in charge of designing boss encounters though on their dev team

[jagged thunder]

let me ride the dragon and fire ball everyone

what class after bard? monk

[lusty wren]

druid it sounded like

[lucid root]

Bear vs barb

Who wins?

Not sure how I feel about parrys, I know how strong they can be

[jagged thunder]

isnt there already parries?

[lusty wren]

yes

its going to be select few weapons and is on the longsword atm iirc

Pretty sure its the longsword

its good too

[lucid root]

How does it work?

[jagged thunder]

if the bear has a wiz and cleric prob the bear

[lusty wren]

you right click at the right time and you block the attack and counter attack with a nice little slice

so ya yet another suggestion asking for something already in the game

[jagged thunder]

barb/druid bear? if subclass

i want monk for kicking

[lucid root]

As long as it's on a select few like you said

[lusty wren]

They said something about wanting monk but having no clue what it would like like atm

[lucid root]

Because i can parry all day given enough practice

[lusty wren]

ya the idea is to have it be on a subset of weapons not sure what their criteria are for it

[jagged thunder]

give them a kick and a dodge

[lusty wren]

id be ok if parry weapons were confined to fighter tbh

[lucid root]

Shield break and/or a general stun with a kick?

[jagged thunder]

i just know bardiche idk any other parry weapon

[lusty wren]

bardiche was able to parry?

[jagged thunder]

im pretty sure

[lusty wren]

i never right clicked with it tbh

i only used it a handful of times

[jagged thunder]

it was barb only tho i think

[lucid root]

I tried right clicking right away with Crystal sword because the game felt so much like chivalry

But nothin

[lusty wren]

lool

ur not one of those boys that wants chiv combat here are ya?

[jagged thunder]

polearm tho not an axe so i didnt use it, its good to have if you ditch the axe+ perk

[lucid root]

Nah that combat devolves into spergy nonsense way too fast

[lusty wren]

agreed, i love how the combat is going in DaD

[lucid root]

It's clunky but in all the right ways

[lusty wren]

Its slow and deliberate which I like

[jagged thunder]

theres a retro modern feel to it

[glacial bridge]

i dont like suggestions that are "give x to play testers".

bruh we are supposed to be trying to improve the game, not ask for rewards that only we get...

[lucid root]

I don't want any special treatment

[jagged thunder]

i like the main class buff and debuff all other class suggestions

[lucid root]

I do downvote wizard nerf suggestions instinctively even though they are needed 💔

[woeful oriole]

@lucid root ah so a troll

[gray vessel]

LOL I tried to make a joke and the bot deleted my post, i got rolled

[lucid root]

Nah I catch myself and fix it usually

It's just a reflex thing ya know, trying to protect my baby

[jagged thunder]

i didnt play enough wiz when i did i liked it tho, i played barb/cleric/rogue and i feel like they were ok barb had 1 or 2 build tho and both the others had a few

wiz i had a few build didnt run enought with him i know intense focus waas cracked

i wouldnt know how to balance him other than lose strength and put those stats elsewhere

[lucid root]

It starts out feeling kind of weak then it just keeps snowballing

[jagged thunder]

every class was like that though, fights could be decided by the environment tho so i feel like every class was ok other than cleric low stats

open pvp tho wizard is probably gonna win unless theres a team woking together

[lucid root]

i like the solo leaderboard suggestion

can't hurt anything right?

[jagged thunder]

wiz 33will should be 30 and resourcefulness should be 8 didnt know they had 5 strength

[jagged thunder]

i want a bounty leaderboard for normal/highroller

[placid canopy]

Same. Gives incentive to play solo even if you could normally do 3 man and publicly praises the people who fall into each category. Gives streamers extra content to work towards as well so people might not feel as bad about being solo if they see their favorite streamer doing it

[jagged thunder]

maybe resourcefulness/knowledge

[placid canopy]

I suppose these things could also be accomplished with any reason to be solo over trio such as specific quests or something though too

[jagged thunder]

dailies

gives solo players incentive to team up and vice versa

[placid canopy]

Yeah literally anything that solo gets or has something to show that 3 man doesn't get would make most of the "solo unplayable" people happier

[lucid root]

is that a hint of solo catering i detect? NYAAAHHHHHH

dropkicks everyone

[placid canopy]

I like the leaderboard idea cuz it doesn't actually affect gameplay but still promotes the option to be solo

Shouldn't be any backlash from the 3 man only groups

[lucid root]

The backlash comes from within, us solos hate ourselves

[woeful oriole]

Us solos don't have friends >_>

[jagged thunder]

you can lfg in discord

tavern voice

[lucid root]

"Can you guys hear me?" "Yeah you sound retarded" slashme runs and cries in a corner

[jagged thunder]

dont party up with those people?

you can lfg and look for specific classes in lfg channel so you avoid random people that just want to run off and solo loot even tho theyre in a party

[pulsar meadow]

@wise basin Why wouldn't you want other races added?

[smoky yoke]

because multiple times they suggested that and developers said that in future they will add more races

[wise basin]

+1

[lucid root]

I have no strong feelings toward additional races. Generally more customization is better

[smoky yoke]

i hope races can also have their own customization
like human, the ability to change hairstyle, face ect
and same for other races

[lucid root]

Maybe just exclude races that would have tiny hit boxes like gnomes

[lusty wren]

I am fine for other races, I am not fine for other cosmetics like the skeleton that alter gameplay. His suggestion is vague enough to be considered more of the skeleton no thank you

[lucid root]

Keep the same physics and hit box rig for all the races so we're kinda constrained to what races we can add based on shape and size

Like elves are pretty much the same size

Undead race

[smoky yoke]

i like honestly the diversity in hitboxes
like, it could be a problem perhaps to fight them, but they will have their own disvantage too as in they couldnt crouch jump to reach some spots

but tbh i think dwarves wouldnt be really a problem in fight tbh
just looking down, perhaps even better headshot accuracy

[smoky yoke]

i like that races might have some their unique stat
and the cosmetics were probably just a test

i think realistically cosmetics will be cosmetic only that wont alter stats/gameplay

[lucid root]

Imagine a gnome mage, so much destruction

[jagged thunder]

Q: Do you plan to add more fantasy races? Dwarves, Elves, etc.
A: We are still experimenting but yes. We want to include more customization.
Dwarves
Elves
Gnomes
Half-Elves
Half-Orcs
Halflings

[lucid root]

Ohhh shit

[jagged thunder]

i added the classes from 3e

[lucid root]

Oh they didn't say that

[jagged thunder]

they want to add races they experimented with skeletons

id guess theyll keep the skeleton and maybe add an elf

[jagged thunder]

the QnA yea the classes no

[lucid root]

Keeping it close to human frame would make sense pvp wise

[jagged thunder]

yea i dont want to chase a dwarf with haste however fun it might be to play one

[lucid root]

Gnomes will dominate

[jagged thunder]

i was looking at leonin and dragonborn

[reef cosmos]

Ppl keep asking for trap to desarm if you bait it for a second or two but it actually already does but it's so quick that it takes practice to do it, timing like the Ghost King jump. Very narrow

Shouldn't we address it so ppl stop spamming for trap nerf ?

[placid canopy]

If small races become a real thing they could have less health or something. Or honestly being small is probably a downside cuz you can't headshot as easy and you get headshot easier

Good vs archers tho

[reef cosmos]

More health makes more sense

[placid canopy]

Yeah I was thinking they're harder to hit, but they also get headshot so much easier so idk

[reef cosmos]

Also two handed weapons should be buffed on them

They wouldn't be that much harder to hit unless they are faster in their feet

[lucid root]

Imagine a guy the size of a mummy spider running around hasted

[vagrant stone]

shooting out fireballs

[placid canopy]

And then enlarge/reduce gets added as a spell as well so he's just microscopic

[pulsar meadow]

ah I see thanks

[jagged thunder]

druid bait turns into a hasted bear

[mossy ruin]

@unique hazel n- u there?

[unique hazel]

ye

[mossy ruin]

i was thinking another solution could be timed shots, although u might not know, but if a ranger strafely slowly and holding a lane like that you can guess they are holding the bow string

there could be an exhaustion feature where you have to let go or shoot or your shot goes stray and future shots stray quicker till you recover l, like arm stamina

so they cant just perma hold the bow ay an anglez they hve to give ground this way and kite

[smoky yoke]

the developer said that he hates stamina

[unique hazel]

I feel like the game design is mostly trying not to punish players for playing
While that's a viable solution it's not the kind of design the game is going for in my opinion

[mossy ruin]

fair enough

thats fair

[unique hazel]

O hyeah i remember this

[smoky yoke]

I can tell you that I really hate stamina systems. We also don’t want all melee classes to play with parries.
to quote

[mossy ruin]

definitely would keep rangers strong, just not angle hold god

[smoky yoke]

the bows were nerfed so prob they are going to nerf them a bit more in other ways

id start from the suggestion that one of his abilities realod all of his arrows somehow 🤔

[mossy ruin]

bows were just frustrating ay weird times and they still coud switch to spear if they ran one.

One of the abilities does reload all