suggestion-discussion

[minor pond]

Fair point for hardcore gamers. Its just that the devs have to consider every demographic of player and the average age for this game will most likely be 20-25+ due to genre and price tag. And that’s around the age people start working full time jobs

[valid mica]

More wipes make the game more accessible to every demographic though...

[rose folio]

I feel the less starting difference the better when it come to level. you don't want a situation where new player are just getting there heads kicked in.

[minor pond]

In the short term yes, but those players will litteraly never reach endgame gear and will get bored soooooo quick

[cursive kayak]

Deza I gave u a 👍

[rose folio]

that's not a bad idea at all in that case

[lucid root]

How many stash tabs should we have

[valid mica]

They probably wouldn't reach it with fewer wipes either, because anyone with a purple weapon would just clobberstomp them back to the lobby.

[gray vessel]

0

[lucid root]

No stash? 👀

[rose folio]

you could actually give stat increases in that structure.

[cursive kayak]

If u add cheater insurance cheaters will definitely abuse that to dupe items for rmt

[minor pond]

Appreciate it lmao 😂 The votes don’t matter too much to me tho, I just hope people know what their getting into with a system like that 😅

[pulsar sierra]

Why not just add gearscore based on gear rarity and make brackets out of that?
White-blue / blue-purple / gold+ seems like it wouldn’t split the playerbase that much but would reduce the necessity for frequent wipes 🤷🏻‍♂️

[lucid root]

3 stash tabs seems alright over a 3 month season

I filled my shit up in like 2 days

[minor pond]

Maybe put a price tag on the tabs, 3k gold or smth just to give it some progression

[lusty wren]

great part of the game is being able to go in and punch up. MMR system / brackets based on gear score will ruin this game.

You can easily outplay gear right now just by using map knowledge and playing smarter. Do not take this away from us

Even a less skillful group can catch a stacked group off guard and wipe them and take their gear.. This is a great part of the game

[lucid root]

3k yeah I'll pay that

Then make the max like 3-4

[glacial bridge]

im guessing the additional tab(s) will be behind a questline

[lucid root]

Quest you say

[glacial bridge]

i would expect 3 at most total

[gray vessel]

"at most total"?

[lusty wren]

I think bags are a better way to go. Smaller bags with less room and less hit on speed. Big bags more inventory more hit to speed

[lucid root]

3 tabs I'll be stressing my stash management skills to the max a few weeks in but I guess it should be that way

[minor pond]

Quest + price tag for extra tabs could work beautifully. Doesn’t affect the average player but gives the grinders something to do

[lusty wren]

Default inventory should be half of what we get now if its expandable

[glacial bridge]

clarifying 1+2 instead of 1+3

[lusty wren]

OH yall talkin bout stash

Hmmm. Stash is plenty big. Id rather see more stash management in the game

id like to see more options for inventory size though with a cool bag system 😄

[glacial bridge]

From the Q&A Google Doc

Q: Will there be a way to increase stash size?
A: There will be a way, however, we’re still thinking about how to provide it.

[lusty wren]

Yes, which means they may make the stash smaller and then add ways to expand to what we had in PT

Which would be best IMO

[glacial bridge]

ide be fine with that Proxy

limited is good by me

[lusty wren]

They also said they want stash management to be filled with choices.

[lucid root]

Only thing upgradeable about inventory I'd be for is like a belt slot to get extra utility slots for potions and such

Since there's no belt slot at all atm

[lusty wren]

I think current inventory is pretty large. Id like a "default" bag to be half its size. Then you can choose for a smaller bag that hurts ur speed less. Or a larger bag that increases the hit on ur speed. I like this way over say a weight system.

[minor pond]

Give us “herb” to smoke in game 😉 😂 footsteps suddenly become louder and lights shine slightly brighter - joking obviously

[glacial bridge]

i like that. put up the Poll :)

[lucid root]

Which one the herbs?

[minor pond]

Prolly proxy’s idea

[glacial bridge]

nah the bag speed. i aint no hippie

[lucid root]

You joke but good audio is op

[lusty wren]

I stole the idea from another here wouldnt feel right to put in the suggestion 😄

Though id upvote a well explained version of it HAHA

[smoky yoke]

once people will have stacked stuff the inventory will be only filled of potions and bandages only in high roller dungeons

[lusty wren]

The bag idea was urs right? You should write up a suggestion for it

[smoky yoke]

in high roller dungeons pretty much loot will be secondary prob
only if they find purple or green worth to take

[smoky yoke]

no wasnt mine lol

to me inventory and stash is fine like its tbh

[lusty wren]

Ah my memory fails me

[minor pond]

Honestly the ale should have some effect on game volume, whether it’s louder or quieter, although it would need to have a counterpart item . Would be interesting but possibly overpowered so maybe for the best we don’t have it

[lucid root]

Single stash tab is gonna be brutal

[smoky yoke]

maybe some backpack where you can buy to have some small extra storage but idk

to me inventory and stash looks already nice and large already

[umbral valve]

Easy mode the mobs can only temporarily knock you down, making you vulnerable to being executed by hostile players.

[lusty wren]

Yes, but the object of it is to make meaningful decisions on what you keep and what you dont. Not hoarding everything.... What if there was just a separate coin purse to not fill the stash?

[smoky yoke]

my suggestion about stash was that once you get your loot, you can automatically stash your riches/loot directly in the stash
just as quality of life

right in the deposit instantly instead to do it manually one by one

[smoky yoke]

with a button, when the game is finished

[minor pond]

An auto-sort would also be a god send, less Tetris mid game and after game

[smoky yoke]

so you could even do it manually if people want

[lusty wren]

This would be nice, also being able to say go to the right trader and press a button to put everything up he will buy at once. Like trinkets. Tired of clicking on every slot of my inventory to sell all my trinkets every raid

[smoky yoke]

yea, auto sort + also keeping the manual mode
so its fine for everyone

[smoky yoke]

yea

i found out that doing shift + mouse 2 (right click) sends them in the deposit way faster
but that's it

its still slow
but im sure there will be QoL updates about that prob

[glacial bridge]

SEE, I PUT OUT THE SUGGESTION AND IMMEDIATELY MADE A TYPO

THIS IS CLEARLY YOUR FAULT

[minor pond]

I’d also like to see a change to how we split items, I’d MUCH rather right click the item and be given the option to “drop, or split” and then you are given a slider/text box to enter the amount

[smoky yoke]

you can do .edit and use the ID of your suggestion i believe

and edit

[lusty wren]

LOL still got my upvote

[lucid root]

I understand the design choice behind limited stash, but I've seen it tried and people just make mules to go around it

[smoky yoke]

try to do .edit 1509064 and then copy paste your suggestion fixing the typos id say

[glacial bridge]

ok

[lusty wren]

Welp this means more money for the devs right? 😄

[lucid root]

I tried editing it didn't work

[smoky yoke]

rip

[glacial bridge]

it looks like it worked from my pov

[smoky yoke]

ah

[lucid root]

Wasn't accepting my ID for some reason

Oh my edit worked?

[rose folio]

sorry for posting twice with what's basically the same suggestion, but my tech skills are limited to say the least.

[minor pond]

I didn’t even think about this… if you really wanted to you could just make 30 steam accounts and multi box them so you’d have 30 stashes

[lusty wren]

That is a bunch of extra money for the devs. I am down with this

[minor pond]

Trueee tottaly forgot the games not free lmao, I’m also cool with it

[smoky yoke]

maybe you can ask a mod to delete your old suggestion specifing the ID and keeping the new one
you could also just edit your previous suggestion

[lucid root]

I mean sure I'll buy a few extra copies just to store shit if it supports the devs, I had like 10 mule accounts in d2

[smoky yoke]

it exists also friends to have more stash and dropping stuff if needed
i think storage is fine like it is
already balanced tbh

[minor pond]

I have 4 mules on tarkov 😂 one is pure Grenada’s 😈

[smoky yoke]

in high roller dungeons people usually just fill their full inventory of potions
seems to be meta as thing
cause i guess the loot there is not very primary as thing
they perhaps farm in normal and then can also buy better stuff

[rose folio]

I tried to edit the original but it kept telling me the post # was invalid. I copy pasted it so I didn't get it wrong. but I'm sure the error is me so I don't know how to fix it. lol

[lusty wren]

POTS and trinkets is all i pick up unless its a upgrade to me or my team

[rose folio]

any good roll item would take priority i made most my money in the post

[smoky yoke]

you used your own ID suggestion?

[rose folio]

yes

[rose folio]

as I say I'm not too savvy.

[minor pond]

Just to confirm your doing “.edit ##### blahblahblah” ?

[lucid root]

Square brackets right?

[minor pond]

No brackets

[lucid root]

Oh that was my problem then

[minor pond]

The only special character used is .

[rose folio]

well you see, i'm not too savvy

[rose folio]

a fellow fool at least

[minor pond]

Ahaha it happens, everybody has made that mistake with brackets one time in their life

[lucid root]

My coding experience doesn't help me at all

[errant niche]

Make the barbarian grow when he rages lmao

From 4ft to 7ft

Since historically vikings are only 4ft tall.

[lusty wren]

@native cargo Your suggestion already exists

[lucid root]

Updated my caltrop suggestion

Now that I figured out how to do it

[lucid root]

Feels like character customization is always wanted in just about every game

I made the same suggestion earlier Harry 🙂

Upvoting regardless 👍

Im a fan of giving rogue more cool shit

@wintry forge can you elaborate on this one?

[wintry forge]

I haven't played Dungeons and Dragons, but I'm guessing the Dark and Darker class abilities and perks are based on that game. I don't know what else Ironmace has planned to add to the classes, but maybe use Dungeons and Dragons as a reference when deciding what abilities, perks, and gear to use in Dark and Darker for the classes.

[lucid root]

I meant your suggestion you made about the random player count

[wintry forge]

You mean randomly select 15-25 players? So, players spawn into the tavern as usual. The differences are that some players spawn into the "Inn", nobody can see a player count, and a random number between 15 and 25 will be chosen for each game. This way nobody knows how many players they might face or what all of the classes will be.

[shadow jacinth]

@minor venture type if you think wizard is op

[wintry forge]

Thanks for asking. I figured maybe others wouldn't know what I meant so I reposted my suggestion.

[minor pond]

The inconsistency on these polls are kinda ridiculous, 3 almost identical posts about character customization one gets 13-1 votes, one has 12-24 and other is 4-13 . I’m 99% sure some people are just voting to meme and not reading anything. (Numbers are slightly off cus I’m too lazy to go check again)

[lusty wren]

They can also be different people 😄

[loud matrix]

And some people just don't know what they want.
Or sometimes polls are for similar things but completely different implementations thereof.

It's a huge difference if races are implemented as the skeletons were in the last playtest as unlockable rewards, from the beginning, if they have gameplay effects or not, or if they're just separate classes for some reason. I've seen all of these possibilities as suggestions.

As a class, for example, is plain stupid in my opinion, though that's how D&D had it originally.

[smoky yoke]

my suggestion about character customization had 34 positive votes

[smoky yoke]

but yea people just vote without thinking most of time, they just follow the big number

my latest suggestion received 100 thumbsup
i guess 100 people agree that there should be some sort of compendium bestiary

[woeful oriole]

Unga bunga, big number better

Also any suggestion that even mentions any form of minor rogue buff gets downvoted into oblivion

People really hate rogue despite it not being overpowered in the slightest or annoying for that matter

[faint dirge]

its just annoying

regarless of power level

[lucid root]

Hey I suggested two rogue buffs and it did pretty good

I think people are more open to skill based abilities rather than just saying boost this or that you know

[woeful oriole]

@lucid root imo, traps and trickery fit rogue far more then ranger. Well beartrap fits ranger, but it feels like rogue should have caltrips, and various tools

Would be interesting if they expanded on that and made rogue a more inventory tool type character

[smoky yoke]

developer said that ranger can have spells as well
but instead to make all class having spells, he may think of some artifact

[jagged thunder]

devs said that the weapons were the most basic that they could come up with right now, so im assuming they will expand on tools/traps as well

[somber wind]

They mentioned Artifacts, Scrolls and Wands with Artifacts being later.

[woeful oriole]

can't wait for rangers to bear trap you, hunters mark you, then one tap you in the head

[somber wind]

@gray vessel Why do you dislike making durability not horrible? It's planned to have durability.

[gray vessel]

I'd rather it just be more durability. Either of those submissions inherently leads to items having low durability. IF you can repair your items in the shop, then why would you ever need a whetstone if you weren't worried it would break in a single run.

[somber wind]

Yeah but I'd rather we not have to deal with LOSING gear when we are winning.

It'd make good rolled items worth significantly less.

Since they'd be mostly pointless.

[gray vessel]

I'm fine with that tbh

[somber wind]

It basically invalidates the rolled effects.

[glossy cloak]

rogue need trap

[gray vessel]

I disagree with that statement

[smoky yoke]

rogue it's a living trap itself, rogue can ambush people 🤔

[somber wind]

Why wouldn't it invalidate it? If items are going to be lost, why farm for good rolled gear when you can get "good enough" gear?

Especially as Wizard or Rogue

[gray vessel]

lol

[somber wind]

I want to beable to actually build up my build

not just farm for gold before buying the whole thing at the trading post

Since that's what would be the best way to play if durability deletes items

[gray vessel]

I don't see how either of your posts change whether you can build up your build or not. Why wouldn't you be able to repair gear at the shop? Do you think I am suggesting all gear should break and never be repairable?

[somber wind]

@wintry forge They already said they had stamina bars, not happening even if the community backed it.

[bronze sail]

싱글모드 로 문열어!!!!!

[somber wind]

I mention in my first one that weapon's dont get deleted and instead become significantly weaker when broken. The other one I don't really care about too much. It was just so if your items end up getting lower durability from fighting something that you could deal with it. The other one isn't REALLY needed.

This one specifically

#d-and-d-suggestions message

Is the important one

[gray vessel]

I'd rather the constant risk that if you don't repair them each time at the shop for gold then they could break in the dungeon

[somber wind]

Just feels gross, we'd need alot of durability then

[gray vessel]

I don't think your suggestion is completely terrible, i just don't think it would make as fun of gameplay in the long run 🤷‍♂️

[somber wind]

How much do you think is fair

Like

3 games worth of durability roughly?

So if you end up fighting everyone in 1 game you don't just break your weapon mid fight in 1 game.

[gray vessel]

enough for 1 long b1 -> b2 -> b3 raid, and a tiny bit more. After clearing 3 dungeons it should be almost broken, but if you cycle only b1 over and over, you can do maybe 3 runs before repairing

[somber wind]

Would you prefer this as an alternative

what I said before

BUT

instead of it lowering stats or turning off modifers

[wintry forge]

You're saying that there's no possibility of having stamina bars?

[somber wind]

it makes it unable to be equipped

[somber wind]

Correct the dev's said they hate the mechanic a few times now

[gray vessel]

That's pretty much the same thing in my eyes lol

[somber wind]

How so?

If it's unable to be equipped

you need to empty your bag out

to put it into your bag to keep it

instead of keeping it in your hand

[gray vessel]

because it still exists, I want it to be deleted forever if you overuse it

[somber wind]

so you sacrifice inventory space if you want to bring it back

and if multiple things break you wont realistically beable to bring it all abck

[gray vessel]

I want the durability to be a RISK not an annoyance that you have to go repair

[somber wind]

I understand the need for item sinks but I feel like this is the wrong way

I'd rather it just be a gold sink

[gray vessel]

I think adding features to the game that make it more tedious is bad for it, but adding risks and rewards is good for it.

[somber wind]

I don't really see it as a risk reward

I just see it as risk and annoyance

(it deleting)

[gray vessel]

What is the annoyance? You can only be annoyed at yourself by not repairing the item that you care about before a raid

[somber wind]

More so if I end up having a really grindy few floors

I expect to break it

So if I get too grindy of a game

and I'm going for a boss fight

I have to tell the group

"I gotta leave, my gear is going to break"

[gray vessel]

if they were to implement it how I would, I would do rigorous testing to make sure it was not at any risk of that tbh

[gray vessel]

In my imagination this line would only ever occur if you didn't repair before doing the raid

[somber wind]

At minimum there should be a gear about to break warning then on the hud

[fresh sable]

having to repair before every raid sounds just annoying and worthless

[gray vessel]

ewwww no

[somber wind]

Similar to how dark souls does it

where it's a buff

So on your buff bar it shows a broken icon and then an icon for the type

so a "No" symbol over a Helmet for example

[fresh sable]

there's a reason they removed durability in elden ring

[smoky yoke]

durability doesnt really much to the gameplay to be honest

[gray vessel]

Do you pay attention to your buff bar that much? I rarely look at it

[fresh sable]

and ds3 i think

[somber wind]

I notice when stuff changes so I'm pretty sure I'd notice it in my peripheral

or check between fights

[fresh sable]

maybe if you couldnt repair at all, that would be meaningful

[somber wind]

I notice when I get haste thrown on me for example

[fresh sable]

as an item sink

[somber wind]

That would make me drop the game lol

[fresh sable]

lol ya

but repairable durability is just fluff imo

[somber wind]

Oh 100% I don't think it should exist

but it's planned

[smoky yoke]

it's just a pointless mechanic to be honest repairing weapons
if they only add it it's probably to balance more the economy in general about gold

[gray vessel]

Yeah durability is an interesting choice. Hopefully how they implement it helps the game, rather than hinders it

[somber wind]

so I'm trying to think of the most inoffensive way to add it

mostly invalidate it and turn it into just a gold sink

[fresh sable]

as a gold sink maybe it makes sense

[somber wind]

I do think item sinks need to exist but durability would be the worst way to do it

[fresh sable]

maybe it should be super expensive and stuff only breaks when a player dies with the item

[smoky yoke]

would be cool if shields break after a while
same for the shields of normal mobs
maybe

[somber wind]

Eh that would punish other players though

[smoky yoke]

also maybe there might be even a weight system

it was present as stat but it wasnt active yet
but who knows
things can change

[somber wind]

Weight system is something they said they'd be testing to see if they still want to go with it, it was planned.

It might be removed though.

[smoky yoke]

maybe they will add it to balance
because people in high roller dungeons just full their inventory of bandages and potions just to survive

but idk

[somber wind]

I don't think that'd change really even with weight

the weight would need to be low to affect bandages and potions

unless they weigh more than we'd expect potions and bandages to weigh

[fresh sable]

whats the point of weight with limited inventory space

[somber wind]

They want to add variable size backpacks and to balance that, weight.

[smoky yoke]

ive seen many players having like their inventory full of potions and bandages
was insane lol
no loot somehow

[fresh sable]

makes sense in like skyrim

[fresh sable]

hmm seems weird

[smoky yoke]

backpack with -40 movement speed rip

[somber wind]

I would prefer if bags just had movement speed modifiers based on their size.

[glacial sphinx]

variable size backpack sounds like kinda pointless complexity

[somber wind]

No I ment like having Small, Medium, Big and Giant bags

[fresh sable]

I think ya if you have a backpack it should slow you down but maybe give you bigger inventory

[somber wind]

as well as sacks

It being an equippable item

like other items

[smoky yoke]

might work only if the maps would be really really big
otherwise not sure

[fresh sable]

I hope they add chests you can put in your stash

[somber wind]

Already confirmed but it will only be for holding gold bags.

[smoky yoke]

but probably are also for people going in inferno maps
that might be useful to loot even more

[fresh sable]

better than nothing

[smoky yoke]

cause people looting and then going in inferno maps taking the red portal they are kinda filled already

[somber wind]

We do know expanding stash size will happen just now how, SDF was saying it wouldn't be directly just buying more stash size.

[glacial sphinx]

there's diminishing returns on extra bagspace anyway, like clearly you'll always take the most valuable items, so added bagspace is just going to give you the ability to carry something like the 6th or 7th most valuable piece of gear ontop of what you already have.

[smoky yoke]

hopefully that upgrade wont be wiped 🤔

[somber wind]

It likely would

[smoky yoke]

[somber wind]

but we'll see

[fresh sable]

a backpack slot seems like a cool idea

with big weight penalty

but i dont think items in inventory should have weight

[somber wind]

I think just having movement speed negative stat on the bag would be enough, no need to add a weight system

with the basic bag having no changes to movement speed

and maybe even smaller bags having increased move speed on them

[smoky yoke]

i dont think weight should reflect the movement speed
only the capacity of what you can bring
so if you have no space, you have no space
if you have space, you can put more stuff

but the fact backpack can give -40 movement speed for example
ok

[fresh sable]

thats already built in though

[somber wind]

I think the goal is to have a balancing factor to the bags

[fresh sable]

you only got so many squares

[smoky yoke]

weight wasnt present yet i think

[somber wind]

so it's not just an upgrade

but a choice

[smoky yoke]

yea sure

the drawback can be the slow movement speed

[fresh sable]

your inventory is limited i dont see why you gotta add a second limit layer

[somber wind]

I'd also personally be ok with instead of lowering movement speed

instead interact speed

[fresh sable]

that'd be funny

[somber wind]

So it affects only outside of combat stuff

[smoky yoke]

yea but lowering the movement speed because the backpack
not because what there is inside imo

[somber wind]

Yeah that's what I was saying

It should be a modifier

[smoky yoke]

else weight would reflect even for people with no backpack
and if they have many stuff then they are slower rip

[somber wind]

So like how boots affect movement speed

[fresh sable]

they should give you a giant sack that u gotta hold with both hands

[smoky yoke]

yes

[somber wind]

the bag should affect movement speed

[fresh sable]

cant use weapons or interact

[somber wind]

and weight shouldn't be a mechanic

[smoky yoke]

i could see using backpack for tactics and strategies for inferno maps maybe
where at least one of the three people have it

[fresh sable]

I think weight on armor makes sense

like a fighter in full getup is slow af

[smoky yoke]

yea cause the modifier movement speed

[fresh sable]

maybe takes balancing tho

[fickle gorge]

the bag is the weapon

[fresh sable]

yes and more damage the fuller it gets

[sweet blaze]

Would attack speed based builds be viable at all or would they be busted with the current mechanics?

[wide sage]

Pretty viable depending on build, ignite gives a flat damage boost which is amazing on the weaker weapons that normally have faster attack speeds. Rogue poisons stack up to a limit so attack speed helps stack fast. Not sure what other classes get a particular benefit tho

[soft relic]

Honestly it's so easy to stack +damage that attack speed is always good to have.

[remote sonnet]

suggestions chat in portuguese.
or can you send suggestions in other languages?

[smoky yoke]

rules say that messages should be kept in English except in specified language channels that you can access by reacting in #1026916693806686208

[upbeat thunder]

People don’t like the idea about insuring items like it’s done in Tarkov. Why is it a bad idea?

[wide sage]

Because some folks like that level of "hardcore" gameplay loop

its not so much a "bad" idea as its a feature that some like and some don't.

like, the idea of the game is "you dont get to keep things when you die, you have to earn your own insurance through storing items you get out with, and keeping your coffers lined with gold to buy stuff to go in with when you lose your gear."
so when you introduce an extra layer of insurance, some folks feel like that hardcore feature is being lessened, which, fair enough.

I get both sides, but I'm personally in favor of no additional insurance

[lucid root]

Durability gold sink is something I can live with, but when the gamble merchant comes out that's pretty much the only gold sink you need

[smoky yoke]

there were some ways to duplicate stuff already
if a cheater kills you unfairly there should be some refund imo just because wasted time

[wide sage]

losing gear to cheaters, yeah I agree you should be compensated

[smoky yoke]

even if implemented such refund it wont be an issue because when they fix the cheating issue, there will be way more less cheaters

also since it runs to dedicated servers if you get disconnected because some errors you can reconnect to the session without losing items it seems like

[lucid root]

How about rollbacks on server crashes, I lost all my gear like 5 times lol

[smoky yoke]

idk
still an alpha, maybe when the game full released it wouldnt happen
but i guess it could work something like that

[minor pond]

#d-and-d-suggestions message

[wide sage]

That's fair

[minor pond]

It sucks losing your stuff to cheater forsure, but it’s just unhealthy for the game to give it back :/

[wide sage]

its a game where you're expected to lose stuff alot, so I don't see it as a huge deal. getting stuff back is a good faith move but if it causes actual problems then yeah it's not worth it

[smoky yoke]

once the cheater get banned, their inventory closed as well

[smoky yoke]

yea because economy is very volatile here

[minor pond]

What about the replay suggestion do you guys not like? The YouTube content would be so good!

Just wondering

[smoky yoke]

depends like how is implemented

[minor venture]

ok but nerf wizard

[smoky yoke]

when a game closes, the thing id like to see is only return to lobby or spectate the players
too much clutter imo its not nice

if its implemented via main menu ok, i guess it could work, but then it would auto download most likely all the games or similar and might be unhealthy for the storage id guess
not even sure how replay system work modernly

[lucid root]

D:

[smoky yoke]

also about cheating issue, it will be pretty much solved very soon, if not in the early access

[minor pond]

I was just thinking same same way overwatch does it, The server would be fully shut down before anybody could view it , having its own little section in the main menu. Although your right about the storage

They would need to put a lot of money into cloud storage didn’t rly think about that

[autumn sparrow]

what do you think about removing jumping from the game?

[simple bluff]

Can we talk about how proximity voice chat would work

[minor venture]

buffing wizard type opinion

[simple bluff]

since maps are really isnt that big

so how much is in "proximity"

[lucid root]

@sinful cipher I think 2handed staffs are fine, maybe a wand with a shirtword?

[autumn sparrow]

more like removing mosnter cheese

[minor venture]

decrease the range to like 10m for prix chat

prox

[smoky yoke]

like its a matter to implement sanity checks, their solutions and also the anti cheat apparently that they want to put seems like
and doing some checks to the servers so that people cant do nothing because server side
for now its an alpha so they didnt work much on security

but it will be improved later for sure

[simple bluff]

how about a warstaff? can be used for attacks and cast spells?

[smoky yoke]

devs said that they will rework/tweak the AI of enemies

[smoky yoke]

5 meters maybe or 7

[sinful cipher]

@lucid root i just think a wooden staff is light enough to handle single handed, a short sword, or tougher mele damage staffs would work, cause being forced to use books or a crystal ball is wack

[smoky yoke]

even less than 6 meters honestly

[smoky yoke]

you can use the crystal ball with the dagger

[simple bluff]

6 is kinda small tbh

10 is fine

even with 10 u cant speak with a guy at end of the room

[minor venture]

depends if they make the prox chat fall over distance

[sinful cipher]

yeah but daggers are ass as a wizzard seriously, no way to defend yourself effectively, at least be able to block with some kind of weapon

[smoky yoke]

i guess you want hear other people? so you can know the position of others?
also other may hear from far away
it should make sense and being fair

[minor venture]

?

[sinful cipher]

unless theyre stacked daggers with good buffs

[minor venture]

daggers with ignite 2 shot

[smoky yoke]

but it wouldnt make sense realistically
even irl, you would have to shout probably

[minor venture]

3 shot blue

[minor pond]

Let me smack skeletons with my spell book 😡 I wanna go full librarian class

[autumn sparrow]

i think the important thing for proximity chat

[sinful cipher]

lmao

[autumn sparrow]

is that people want to shit talk no?

[smoky yoke]

no cause you may get banned most likely to be honest

[sinful cipher]

i demand bards be added

[minor venture]

wizard does not need buffs

[lucid root]

Sure proximity chat is fine but I'll be disabling it immediately

[simple bluff]

and btw would shit talk and swearing be reportable lol?

[sinful cipher]

i wanna jam a lute

[minor pond]

😂 just imagine a drunken cleric beating you down with the spine of book

[autumn sparrow]

depends on how bad the shit talk is

[smoky yoke]

as in they ban people for having offensive names, imagine people shit talking in game

[simple bluff]

u bad lol git gud is fine

but swearing isnt

[autumn sparrow]

would players be okay with ow2 style recording voice?

[smoky yoke]

same, going to enjoy the alpha experience
when there wasnt yet proximity chat

nostalgic

[minor pond]

100% as long as they are realistic about the things gamers say, overwatch is too sensitive

[minor venture]

to be fair adding prox chat and a system to detect offensive language

is not going to be a walk in the park

it’s probably put to the back of the queue of things to work on

[lucid root]

I think there's something nice about no text or proximity chat, it's depersonalizing and adds to the dark and lonely ambience, makes you trust everyone less

[minor venture]

as it doesn’t directly expand upon the game

[minor pond]

Wouldn’t need to detect anything live, just record and report. Then somebody gives it a look over whenever they have time

[autumn sparrow]

you can report toxic chatting yourself if you record

[minor venture]

how would that work though?

you’d have to store thousands of games

and filter through thousands more interactions between players

[minor pond]

Same as overwatch, voice channels are recorded and saved to the devs server, when they receive a report matching that player-I’d and match-I’d they can pull it up

[glacial bridge]

sounds like such a waste of effort. simply add prox chat, a mute option for specific players in the lobby and a toggle to turn it off

[minor venture]

i personally disagree and view that as unrealistic

[smoky yoke]

theres also a block system in the end

[smoky yoke]

it does exist though
many games does record when you use VOIP

[minor venture]

i know it does but usually not on the smaller dev team size games

[minor pond]

We do have to keep in mind it’s usually the largest studios doing this because they have the budget

[smoky yoke]

recorded and banned because you said wizard is not op

jk

[minor venture]

realest thing

[smoky yoke]

yea

im more for the block and move on usually
people like that there will be always

[minor venture]

that’s what i’m trying to say, itonmace probably doesn’t have the budget to store all the voice reports and then to get the manpower to check them

[minor pond]

I see so much about wizard but never anything about rafter-barbarian jumping down from the skies and one shotting a whole squad

[minor venture]

the difference is

[smoky yoke]

i already see people using soundboards to troll lol
but at least that if done cooler its fine

problem is people being toxic and insulting prob

[minor venture]

wizard can do anything

and is one of the best at anything

[lucid root]

Guys stop putting 2/3 different things in one suggestion it's just going to get downvoted lol

[minor venture]

barb is only good at face to face tanking

[smoky yoke]

he must missclick to be bad wizard

but yea people that mastered wizard they are very advantaged

and like just enough the projectile missiles removes really a lot

[minor venture]

i good wizard can win 90 percent of fights

[smoky yoke]

pushing forward is a suicide 90% of cases

[minor venture]

without armour half the time too

[autumn sparrow]

im assuming wizards will be balanced when they add more magical items into the game

[smoky yoke]

best reliable way to counterplay wizards is to bait them all the spells til he finish them
and pray he miss all of them

[smoky yoke]

there would be a nice solution already imo
if you cast haste, you shouldnt be able to go invisible

[minor venture]

pray he misses 15 spells

[minor pond]

Maybe limiting the range of all wizards attacks could work, down to the range of zap , although of magic missile lock on it ignores it , only when locked on though

[smoky yoke]

keep invisibility and haste
but dont let them work together

[lucid root]

Then hides and meditates and misses some more

[autumn sparrow]

a scroll of reflect would prevent a wizard from attacking you

[smoky yoke]

cause at least i know when invisible
hes fast as others and not sonic

[autumn sparrow]

something in that area

[minor venture]

i mean i don’t think that is directly the problem with haste and invis giving you infinite chances to get away from any one near you

both them just highlights the issue more

[smoky yoke]

lol

then the wizard says that they would like to look up the area when they meditate
like the campfire where you can look around

[minor venture]

honestly invis gives slowing effect to yourself

and haste only lasts 6 seconds

maybe over nerfed

but it’s for the better

[smoky yoke]

yes also haste by itself, easy escape

[minor pond]

I think that’s more of a motion sickness issue, I personally feel a little weird when meditating

[smoky yoke]

and no one is going to try to chase a wizard cause not very worth

[smoky yoke]

yea no problem

[lucid root]

Toward the end of the playtest I experienced some 3 mans just closing the door and running on me

[smoky yoke]

maybe they locked the camera because the lore of the meditation
dunno

like when meditating
realistically supposed also to close eyes but that would be maybe too way exaggerated lol

[lucid root]

Feels very rp

You have to chant irl while meditating too

Bust out the didgeridoo

[minor venture]

half of wizards spells

are too strong

and the others are too weak

[lucid root]

Chain lightning an entire group instantly

[minor venture]

yes

[lucid root]

Just face it wizard is the main character

That's kind of why I've been pushing for rogue to have some cooler stuff, teams should be looking for good rogues to be like wizard hunters

[unborn raptor]

They'e not looking to balance the game in it's current state.

[lucid root]

Wizards often stray from the team too

[unborn raptor]

Fill out the content, then worry about balancing.

[lucid root]

When I want my worst enemy to be better that says a lot

I feel bad for crapping on them every time

[unborn raptor]

Take away meditate, give wizards cantrips. Easy balance.

[autumn sparrow]

i feel like for most people the game is already in a good spot, balance wise

[lucid root]

No meditate o_O

[unborn raptor]

Eh, not really.

[lucid root]

Balanced ™️

[unborn raptor]

But right now I'd rather features be fleshed out than worry of balance at the moment.

[lucid root]

More balanced than WoW pvp at least

[unborn raptor]

Add the new classes. Give rangers their spells. Even rogues get spells in D&D.

Races...

Can't wait for all the halfing wizards throwing lightning from a pint sized package.

[smoky yoke]

do really have they follow the rules of dungeons and dragons though 🤔

[lucid root]

Not really

And they've already differed from it quite a bit

[autumn sparrow]

I just want a druid rat form

[sterile idol]

I want muh necromancer class

Let me become the greatest mf of this game

[unborn raptor]

I think it'd be cool to have companion classes but with the AI as is and pathing it probably wouldn't work.

[smoky yoke]

some flying minions AI could be very a problem

[unborn raptor]

Will have to see how they optimize it though.

A warlock summoning a flying imp that shoots little fire bolts.

[lucid root]

Resurrect a wraith to fight for you, rip

[wary flower]

resurrect the lich king and wipe the entire b3 o_O

[sterile idol]

wraith he said 🤣

[lucid root]

Bring black spiders back with you to normal b1 and fuck all the noobs up

[sterile idol]

Revive the fucking champion and haste it

[lucid root]

Everyone thinks they're normal spiders

[sterile idol]

Elite spiders 😳

[unborn raptor]

Curious if the BR style plague zone will be a constant thing in the full release or if it will go away.

[sterile idol]

imo the "easy" mode shouldn't have the plague

or make it move very slowly

[autumn sparrow]

easy mode should also guarantee plenty of exit portals

[unborn raptor]

A "lost" timer kind of like the Tarkov MIA function would be an alternative.

[smoky yoke]

there are for everyone afaik

[lucid root]

Imagine if every suggestion made it into the game, my God

What a dumpster fire

[unborn raptor]

Hell yeah, let it all in

[sterile idol]

#d-and-d-suggestions message ok this one is epic

I need to beat the shit out of people with my spellbook

[lucid root]

What if igniting your spellbook just made it catch on fire and you lost your spellbook forever, s tier troll mechanic

And that's why we don't put every suggestion in

[sterile idol]

speaking of suggestion

i think we should remove silver coins

or make them have another purpose

they take space for no reason

[autumn sparrow]

does anyone have an idea on how bard plays?

[lucid root]

You play music

[unborn raptor]

I imagine they'll have a lute that casts kind of like wizard/cleric items.

[lucid root]

There's no benefit other than being able to play music

[autumn sparrow]

so suggestion to bash people with the instrument?

[unborn raptor]

I just want to bonk with it

El kabong

[gilded sigil]

Maybe the bard will be the first class to have hard cc and make enemies either fight against their teammates or dance like the discoball in fortnite

[lucid root]

Bard scares me

His overwhelming sexual prowess

[unborn raptor]

I need a skill called "shred" and you deal fire damage

[autumn sparrow]

should custom music be allowed?

[unborn raptor]

https://tenor.com/view/syko-shred-guitar-guitarist-guitar-solo-gif-14749314

[autumn sparrow]

I want it but idk if it's a good idea

[lucid root]

Hell yes

[sterile idol]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ_F1BtscWk like this

[gilded sigil]

Sounds like a job for mods

[lucid root]

Not like imported music but just being able to play notes on the instrument

[autumn sparrow]

listening to this. would in game trash talk be something people want?

[unborn raptor]

Imagine if you had to actually play the notes to cast the spells

[autumn sparrow]

as in

[sterile idol]

y e s

[autumn sparrow]

in game voice lines

[sterile idol]

Even more if they can be custom

[gilded sigil]

I just want to hear FEEL THE LIGHT as i cast smite on my enemies

[unborn raptor]

If bards can't play breakdowns I'll be pissed.

[autumn sparrow]

real bard gameplay leak

[lucid root]

I want to play the jaws theme while stalking someone

[sterile idol]

imma play the among us drip

[lucid root]

Play some metal gear solid stealth music

Name your guy solid snake

[lucid root]

I'd 100% abuse the mailbox as extra storage

[lucid root]

@rugged dock I think they already plan on adding a gamble merchant

Similar to gheed in d2

Just something to throw gold into if you have an obscene amount

I'm guessing the return rate of good gambles is going to be shit but that's kind of the point

[rugged dock]

i mean more like player to player card games and dice

i guess i shoulda specified that

might be super fun when they add voip too

[lucid root]

Oh gambling minigames

[prisma zinc]

I had also thought that having the tavern available as a "hub" area where you could walk around and gamble in some simple games would be an amazing addition to the game

[lucid root]

Yeah i mean it's there might as well use it for something other than a lobby

[prisma zinc]

it seems a shame. You only get like 10 seconds at most before the game starts so you cant really even enjoy it

[shy pollen]

Looks like today is a bad day for suggestions, so many bad ones, i.e "give rangers a leap backwards, which also slows enemies in their presence, maybe also rooting them in place. leap grants ranger 100% action speed for the next 5 seconds as well"

[rugged palm]

some of them ar efunny tho

nothing better to do we'd all be playing dark and darker rn soooooo

[lucid root]

How about the mortal kombat grappling hook

Get over here!

I think there should be a channel that pins the most popular suggestions so if a dev decides to come in he isn't sifting through a bunch of shit

And to make it easier for the rest of us too

[glacial bridge]

there probably is for them

[lucid root]

Then at least one for us would be cool

All the spergs in general chat who dont like to read can just hop in and vote on the popular stuff

[shadow ledge]

felling axe needs to get negative frames when blocked, currently there is no counter attack possible when trading hits; https://youtu.be/NrywpQQfp6Q?t=234

[lusty wren]

Rangers already do proc their own traps

So many suggestions requesting things the game already has 😄

[glacial bridge]

lol fr

[lucid root]

Probably people that don't play the class

[glacial bridge]

i would love to troll and place 12 bear traps as a minefield and just spam arrows as i dance around

[lusty wren]

I hate you

😄

[lucid root]

Imagine if wizard had a trap, holy overpowered hell

Placing sigil traps on the floor

[glacial bridge]

idk about traps but if it was very limited duration then i could see that being fun

wizards already so strong, dont want to give them absolute power

[lusty wren]

wiz needs nothing

all wiz needs is for INVIS and HASTE to not stack

[smoky yoke]

ez fix

and id expect that rupture the bleeding from rogue not stacking when hiding with the ability

they would still apply even after breaking invisibility so its fine

[verbal marsh]

I'm not against gaining the spell magic rune : 3 forget which tier that is.

[cyan nymph]

hey proxy can i ask what you dont like about the race ideas? is it that you want them to be more of like cosmetic skins?

[glacial bridge]

i like the concept of races but im very hesitant to passives like Drow dark vision and Dhampir health regen

[verbal marsh]

nm, guess thats more of a skyrim spell cant find it in my book hrm

[glacial bridge]

if they did add dark vision, i would want it to be locked to something like rogue and force them to use perk slots that result in less dps

[cyan nymph]

yeah i made them at like 5 in the morning going off of 2 days without sleep so they definitely need work

[glacial bridge]

more customization is always good, but theres a lot of variables that could cause issues.

Over all, i like it

[verbal marsh]

ah nm there it is; Glyph of Warding 3rd circle spell

[cyan nymph]

thank you yeah i think drow would just get picked alot for just the dark vision but alot of races in d&d have dark vision and i was thinking more of like 5 to 10 feet infront of you that you could see in the dark in black in white but i could see it causing alot of issues. i just dig vampires and dhampirs so i tried to think of something that could make it work.

[shy pollen]

I imagine they have something that converts all the suggestions into a spreadsheet / document and they sort it by the feedback

[verbal marsh]

I would imagine if they implement races, you'd lose one of your perks per a racial perk. Humans do tend to have the extra.

[shy pollen]

While there are some batshit ideas, there are actually a lot of good suggestions as well. Although for every good suggestion there's generally 10 duplicates of it.

[shy pollen]

From what they said previously, they don't want skins to have any advantages/disadvantages, so if they treat them as skins then I wouldn't expect there to be any differences (although if they are altering the size of models for different races they may have to make some changes). They said the only reason they put a modifier on the skeleton skin is because they thought being misidentified as a monster was an advantage that they wanted to counter.

[cyan nymph]

races will probably be cosmetic but it would be cool if they did do something but i doubt it

[shy pollen]

I personally would prefer there to not be any advantages/disadvantages tied to races, I'd rather it be a way of character expression rather than another thing being min/maxed

[verbal marsh]

I would imagine equipping the skin would still effect the amount of perks you should have available; It is a given that humans have the 1 feat adv in dnd

[cyan nymph]

people want a fps not a d&d simulator

unfortunate

[shy pollen]

At it's heart the game is a competitive game and if races had inherent advantages/disadvantages you would see everyone choosing specific races for specific classes and that's kinda boring

[cyan nymph]

yeah but some races are just better at things than others

thats kinda a thing

[shy pollen]

In certain fantasy worlds, this could be a multicultural fantasy world where every race is equal

[cyan nymph]

but like i said a fps not d&d simulator

[glacial bridge]

i like racial advantages/disadvantages.

[wary shell]

they will probably do something like you suggested, but your suggestion is a bit much

like 15% reduced damage is insane

[cyan nymph]

yeah theres definitely some elfs that like black smithing and dwarfs that prefer to do wood working but thats the "exception to law" kind of thing

yeah its definitely a rough draft

[glacial bridge]

i do NOT like races being the same as classes. i hate those suggestions

[lusty wren]

TBH I just was turned off by the passives

[cyan nymph]

yeah thats fair i was just shooting in the dark

[lusty wren]

Im not opposed to passive in general just some of those I didnt want to stand behind 😉

For example I know dark evles can see in the dark

but I do not think seeing in the dark fits int his game

[cyan nymph]

yeah exactly i just didnt know what to give drow

like misty step would be busted type of thing

[lusty wren]

If you just said say, have races get unique passives, and leaving it up to the devs for those passives (to avoid a single passive getting you downvotes) id probably have upvoted

[cyan nymph]

just curious what would you do for a passive on dark elfs

[verbal marsh]

Would imagine dark vision to be like cat eyes in the dark, highly reflective and easily visible in the dark.

[cyan nymph]

oooo i like that

[shy pollen]

Like I said, I think with any racial system you are going to have pretty much a hands down optimal race selection for every class. There will be some that go against the grain for fun / lack of knowledge but you will see the vast majority of the population just picking the "meta" race for their class and at that point it isn't even really a choice anymore, just an illusion of choice. I would rather see a wide mix of races based on what people like aesthetically and have more variety.

[cyan nymph]

or just that torches light reaches further on your screen

[verbal marsh]

it would have to be a toggled ability.

[glacial bridge]

im all for a Halfling Barbarian having -Str but you see it in pvp and wonder if hes about to fuck up your world

[verbal marsh]

with a long cooldown

[cyan nymph]

i have no clue what the key bind would be though

"g"??

[verbal marsh]

sacrifice a feat to use it : P

[cyan nymph]

maybe just that each race had a ability with a long cool down?

[verbal marsh]

could vary between perk of skill feature.

[cyan nymph]

that way people could use anything they wanted

[verbal marsh]

or just armor value like skeleton

[cyan nymph]

and stuff wouldnt be so meta

[next violet]

Yeah, me too
There can be tons of ways to min-max but there should also be room for just fun-sake options

[cyan nymph]

in d&d you can just put a +1 in one stat and a +2 in any other stat with some form of passive being hooked to the race so they could do that so its not so meta

[verbal marsh]

Gnomes would probably be a perk loss for stature difference and greatly lowered phy armor due to size.

[cyan nymph]

i doubt they will do gnomes because of how small they are

[verbal marsh]

gnomes arent that small they're usually just shy of dwarf and halfling

[cyan nymph]

there like 3 ft

[verbal marsh]

it's like going from 6 food, to 5, to 4

or rather 5 to 4 to 3,

[cyan nymph]

max like 4 but im going from dnd you could be going off of somewhere else

[verbal marsh]

you're right i think gnomes are roughly 3 ft

[cyan nymph]

i dont think there gonna incorperate a race under 4 ft

would be abused for its hitbox

[verbal marsh]

they'd be as big as oddjob.

[shy pollen]

If you think all of the passives would be able to be balanced to be equally valuable and there wouldn't be an "optimal" selection, I have a bridge to sell you. Either races have differences that make certain class/race combos ideal or you they are negligible which at that point you should just keep them all the same anyway. Unless they make some sort of penalty to grouping with different races people will just select the optimal one for their class which as I said previously is just the illusion of choice. This isn't a table top RP where you are trying to roleplay. It is a competitive PvPvE game an the vast majority of the population is going to maximize their power, not take on disadvantages for flavor.

[cyan nymph]

dude im literally theory crafting. there probably gonna just be cosmetic

[lusty wren]

Honestly I have no idea personally 😄

[verbal marsh]

funny part is guy is doing exactly what he's attempting to advocate against lol

[lusty wren]

Drows had spell resistance maybe some of that for their passive

[glacial bridge]

Humans obviously the baseline. Races with similar hitboxes should have very minor changes. Races like Dwarfves/Halflings should have heavy downsides

[cyan nymph]

yeah maybe but it would have to be slight

[lusty wren]

ya nothing huge, just like a 5-8% resistance

[uneven hearth]

make it so a ranger can proc their own traps if they walk over them... <--- This suggestion... they already can!

[cyan nymph]

people do the same in dnd if you want to run a race thats crap with you class do it no ones stopping you

like i said there most likely going to be cosmetic

[verbal marsh]

The gnome warriors in EQ were fierce.

[cyan nymph]

lol

[fresh fossil]

i hope they add orcs or half orcs

that would be cool

[cyan nymph]

same

[haughty bison]

best way to go about perks is to make them non-combat types, like +2 to all healing received, increased velocity to throwing items, invisibility lasts 2 seconds longer, healing potions lasts 2 seconds longer, your character remains completely black for 1 second when leaving shadows, traps are delayed from triggering for an extra 0.5 seconds, increase torch light radius by 2 meters

[glacial bridge]

Orcs get a -50% additional movespeed slow when they go through those small tunnels

[cyan nymph]

i like the small increase approach

[shy pollen]

If it's just mental masturbation then go for it, but when it's in a suggestion section for changes to the game I am going to critique things that I think would be bad for the game. You are also not taking into consideration that things like races are an easy route for monetization and placing any sort of bonuses behind a paywall is bad. Giving all the races for free takes an easy path to money away from the developers.

Re: Your comment on D&D race/class combos, it's very different in a tabletop game where the focus is roleplay and generally collaborative non-competitive play not a game focused on competing against other players. Also, D&D also has many broken things, a game like this can't have things that are broken.

[verbal marsh]

When it comes down to regardless; The default class would remain the meta regardless of race stat speculations.

The rest is just flavor town.

[cyan nymph]

exactly

its a fps i get it

[fresh fossil]

do yall think they'll add the monk class? i wanna go punchy punch

[haughty bison]

"your character remains completely black for 1 second when leaving shadows" would be pretty freaking cool/scary.
Imagine seeing a shadowy figure leaping from shadow to shadow closing the distance on you lmao

[lusty wren]

They said they intend to but it needs alot of work

[shy pollen]

They already said it's a planned class.

[fresh fossil]

oooh

[verbal marsh]

Monk would be kind of boring imo

[fresh fossil]

awesome!

[fresh fossil]

speedy punchy lad? nah

[lusty wren]

Monk is a staple class it must be included

[verbal marsh]

even dndo didnt have monk for first 2 years so idk what you mean.

[lusty wren]

This is what the devs said 😄

[haughty bison]

yea... i donno about the monk class. rogue daggers are already really hard to block. monk would also just be a copy of the rogue but without weapons and no invis?

[fresh fossil]

monk is awesome and a staple class

monk would maybe be a movement class?

[lusty wren]

If the devs are shit I guess itd just be a copy, but the monk has plenty to make it unique they could draw from

[haughty bison]

a support monk with dashes/dodge rolls would be kinda cool like kharazim from heroes of the storm

[fresh fossil]

like in d&d monks can do some crazy acrobatic jumpy shit

[lusty wren]

The entire roster cant be support 😄

[haughty bison]

only support class is the cleric i thought

[shy pollen]

I don't really think it's a staple class compared to many others that haven't been included but I'm up for more classes in general so I don't mind any additions as long as they are balanced well. Would hate to see a LoL style "new class is broken for several patches" cycle.

[lusty wren]

Wiz is support/ bard is support/ cleric is support

[haughty bison]

oh didnt play wizard, thought they got fire, magic missle, ice, ect but they get buffs too?

[fresh fossil]

they should add a shield bash skill that knockbacks and stuns enemies to make the tower shield usable

[haughty bison]

also missed all the convo on bards

[lusty wren]

Yes they have dps and support, Ignite, Haste, Invis,

[haughty bison]

ahhh, understood

[glacial bridge]

Monks are bottom priority for me.

Important classes would be Bard, Paladin, Druid, (Warlock?)
Less important = Monk, Artificer, Sorcerer

[shy pollen]

Their "support" consists of haste, invisibility and a weapon buff, I wouldn't really class them as a support class though....

[lusty wren]

I was regurgitating what the devs said, Take it up with them 😉

[lusty wren]

Put a wiz and a cleric with a barb, and then tell the wiz to only use support skills. The barb will destroy everything. Its a support for sure 😄 Just has DPS abilities also

[fresh fossil]

wizard is a switch class depending on the player, i personally treat it like an infantry and heavy damage class

[glacial bridge]

Wizards always been a CC class for me, Sorcerers are the exploders

[verbal marsh]

wizard plays like a wizard to me

[fresh fossil]

i like to call my wizard playstyle the rage wizard

[quasi star]

I suggest they add unlockable camouflage for swords and crossbows. Golden, tiger stripe, arctic camo

[cyan nymph]

wiz is fun currently. you die quick but get to cast cool spells

[lusty wren]

Wizard is in a great spot IF you make it to where invis and haste cant stack

[shy pollen]

It really just depends on what games you played/were exposed to giving you that feeling. Many games have classes that share the same name but play very differently / have different skillsets

[quasi star]

Wizard is obviously extremely op right now.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B3av99Omwmo

[cyan nymph]

yeah its a bit nuts

[fresh fossil]

i think a necromancer type class would be cool

[lusty wren]

They alluded to a class like it but said it wont be called necro

[fresh fossil]

defeated players can be revived as zombie AIs or something

[quasi star]

Yes!!!!!!

[shy pollen]

They said they want something like a necromancer if not specifically a necromancer, but as with many things that is a while away.

[cyan nymph]

i feel like they will do the 12 base roster then do subclasses for each class

and if they do that necro will be a wiz subclass

[lusty wren]

I prefer legit sub classees though and not multi classing

[cyan nymph]

yeah multiclassing would be a nightmare in this game

[glacial bridge]

yeah. a Fighter/Ranger should be fundamentally different than a Ranger/Fighter

[verbal marsh]

mmm, lets see what subclasses would there be.

[cyan nymph]

probably the base from the phb

with some not there for balance reasons

plus which edition they take inspiration from

[lusty wren]

I mean just pull em straight from 5e eh? So cleric would get to choose a DOMAIN, knowledge domain, arcane, etc.

[cyan nymph]

i love 5e but its got some broken stuff

[tall nexus]

eh, multiclassing in DnD has always been a bit rough

[cyan nymph]

imagine a arcane fighter

[lusty wren]

All DnD does. Its the devs responsibility to balance everything.

[glacial bridge]

Domains are awesome but i think thats too much to balance for a pvp game

[lusty wren]

fighter doesnt get domains

[cyan nymph]

i was talking about 5e subclass

[lusty wren]

Subs for fighter are battle master, Cavalier, champion

Knight... etc

I think you just cherry pick the best sub classes per class. And balance em

best as in most fun

not mechanically the best

Samurai fighter would be fun

[cyan nymph]

i meant eldritch knight my bad

got the phb in my lap

[verbal marsh]

Rogue - Arcane Trickster, Wizard - Schools, Bard - Valor/Lore, Ranger - Great Enemies, Fighter - Paladin?, Barbarian - Rager/Herald, Cleric - Deities

[lusty wren]

I do not think all of the 5e subs woudl work but cherry pick them

[cyan nymph]

how many subclasses per class do you guys think?

[lusty wren]

cherry pick maybe 2 or 3 per class

2 subs per class is my pref

[cyan nymph]

i got you want me to make a list?

[verbal marsh]

I would think their primary path basically is a sub.

[lusty wren]

In 5e they each get like 5 or 6 subs right? That is way to much for DaD

[cyan nymph]

i feel 3 each class is a solid number

[lusty wren]

I could be persuaded to 3, but no more

[cyan nymph]

cherry pick the best

[verbal marsh]

Don't really need more then 1 cause base path has enough variables.

[lusty wren]

Does it though? Id like subclasses to be picked at 20, and then they can be leveled to like 10

[cyan nymph]

i feel the way to do subclasses in this game is at level 15 or 20 you choose a subclass that gives you more variety

[lusty wren]

so youd get 2 additional perks with them

but only sub class specific perks

not 2 more base perks

[verbal marsh]

If they're sticking to the theme subclasses would be approached more along lv 10 lol, lv 20 is generally max lv in dnd

[cyan nymph]

yeah or like gain a extra perk based upon the subclass

[lusty wren]

and still would be

youd be a lvl 20 fighter with a lvl 10 subclass

[cyan nymph]

if your a spell caster gain different spells depending on subclass

[verbal marsh]

My nwn bard was 15, 4, 1 Just enough levels of arcane archer for arcane arrows while I use song of pacification lol

Noone one my server liked me xD

[cyan nymph]

i bet

im running a level 13 necro right now and my dm hates me

[verbal marsh]

I come into the zone and noone can shoot me while my bow never misses lol

[cyan nymph]

see now thats meta lol

theres meta in dnd

[verbal marsh]

yeah that one basically broke the arena there were some really good assassins on my server too lol

But now you know how why Jarlaxle was so op. xD

[cyan nymph]

what do you guys think about the druid class and how its gonna be incorperated

[verbal marsh]

forget what druid spells there are

[cyan nymph]

i got the phb if you want me to tell you?

[jagged thunder]

nature attacks, i think some debuffs, animal forms

[verbal marsh]

Lets see they'll probably have the fart cloud spell the zombies have.

[cyan nymph]

cloud kill?

would need to be turned down

from the ttrpg predeccessor

[glacial bridge]

Goodberries, Sanctuary, Call Lightning, Flaming Weapon

[verbal marsh]

Hrm; looks like trap spells, healing, fart cloud for dps

[cyan nymph]

vine whip?

[glacial bridge]

Barkskin, Insect Swarm, Heal

[verbal marsh]

barkskin probably just a class perk

[glacial bridge]

Faerie Fire, Regenerate

[cyan nymph]

i feel alot of people would get mad at both of those

especially faerie fire

screws rogues completely

[jagged thunder]

vine wall?

[cyan nymph]

i like that

[jagged thunder]

wizard needs a flame wall

[cyan nymph]

for zoning it would be cool

[unique hazel]

condition on equipment is a terrible idea and I cannot believe so many people upvoted it lmao

[glacial bridge]

ide rather something like Grasping vines on the ground rather than a barrier

[verbal marsh]

I doubt they'd bother with faerie fire its a generic cantrip

[cyan nymph]

durability will just be another gold sync nothing more

[jagged thunder]

i was thinking like thorns that hit when you get close but you can ju,mp over it

maybe a slow

[agile seal]

gold sink is needed

[feral scaffold]

Not a cantrip its a level 1 spell 🤓

[cyan nymph]

it would be different if you didnt lose your gear when you died but since you do it feels like just extra steps

for no reason

[agile seal]

There's more gold generated with successful escape than ppl dying

[jagged thunder]

makes the game more enjoyable with t he risk factor

[unique hazel]

Every death involves gear loss that is never recovered
Even if killed by players his stuff is usually gonna be left half picked

[agile seal]

iirc, game already has repair system just not implemented

[unique hazel]

There is consistent loss of gear

[jagged thunder]

devs said they wanna play with a durability system

[unique hazel]

That's different. It will be used to upgrade stuff to next tiers
So grey would go to white, white to green, etc

[agile seal]

If there's more gear lost than gold gained, we would have New World 1.0

but obviously there's enough gold for high rollers

[cyan nymph]

yeah im not a huge durability guy myself but whatever the devs do they do

[agile seal]

we need more gold sink along high roller

[unique hazel]

Your shit breaking mid raid is not gonna be fun for anyone and it would necessitate bean counting the durability points you have left and UI elements

It's a bad idea across the board

it's an unfun mechanic

[jagged thunder]

i dont mind so long as its not unrealistically fragile gear and we can repair it somehow

[agile seal]

lulkekw, never played zelda breathe of wild?

[verbal marsh]

Thinking druids probably get grasping vines, a vine trap spell, thunder spells, healing spells, for buff perks probably barkskin, healing, stronger elemental dmg, Shillelagh and maybe a shapechange.

[agile seal]

diablo series?

[cyan nymph]

seen some cool games lose a player base due to durability being implemented wrong. either being way to punishing or just a slight annoyance

[unborn spade]

Durability is tedious and boring and every game it’s in is worse for it.

[agile seal]

so you want someone with legendary gear to hodl forever?

[cyan nymph]

agreed

[unborn spade]

https://tenor.com/view/no-yes-giga-chad-giga-chad-gif-23156898

[cyan nymph]

theres wipes in this game

[jagged thunder]

its like sandstorm you shoot till the gun clicks you need to reload or switch weapons until you run out of ammo on the secondary, then you need to do something else

[agile seal]

so you want someone with legendary gear to hodl forever until the wipe?* FTFY

[unborn spade]

Correct.

[jagged thunder]

monster hunter had a whetstone system that just reduced damage on weapons with dura instead of breaking items

[jagged thunder]

expect seasonal wipes

[agile seal]

so instead of encouraging players to constantly repair and resupply, you just want players to play safe/rat 24/7?

[unique hazel]

Yes.
They earned it
They run with it and lose it when they die.

That's how items are lost. very consistently. high roller nightmare dungeons kills people with top tier gear all the time.

[cyan nymph]

wipes help out with that stuff and no ones immortal

[unborn spade]

Yes

[unique hazel]

Which is precisely where you would take such gear

[jagged thunder]

they do that anyways

[agile seal]

ONLY BECAUSE THERE IS NO REPAIR SYSTEM

hurdur

if durability gradually decrease, players will need to replace it

it add more game loop

[jagged thunder]

i thought there was hurdur

[unique hazel]

wait are you implying that items should degrade over time from non-use?

[jagged thunder]

how so?

[unborn spade]

No the best players with the best gear would be able to get the materials to repair the gear. It doesn’t fix any problems it just makes the game more tedious. Go play minecraft

[jagged thunder]

devs already said they wanted to test it out im just passing the news

minecraft for you i guess

[cyan nymph]

a durability system will just make the top 10% of players always able to repair there gear and the rest just being swept by them

[agile seal]

"An **unforgiving hardcore **fantasy FPS dungeon PvPvE adventure" - Imagine minecraft is actually more hardcore than dnd playerbase

[unborn spade]

Yep

[unique hazel]

Again, that repair mechanic is gonna involve upgrading shitty gear with gold. So if you find a weapon that's rare (like a spear) you can pay to have it upgraded to white, to green, to blue, etc

[verbal marsh]

I wouldn't be against gear losing durability upon death >.> just means whoever kills you has a chance toward getting nothing

[jagged thunder]

we dont know how they are gonna build the dura system they might not make it hard to repair

[cyan nymph]

sweet a upgrade system would be dope

[agile seal]

so you want top 10% players to faceroll because of no upkeep of using good gear?

[lucid root]

This is why gamble merchant is the best gold sink, people will be dumping 90% of their gold into it when they have nothing else to buy

[cyan nymph]

so just annoyance?

[jagged thunder]

i think for more stat changes in fights

[unborn spade]

The top 10% of players are gonna face roll and repair their gear. Are you dumb?

[agile seal]

high end durability will be more costly to repair in general durability/repair mech

[jagged thunder]

so barbs cant one tap every mob plus every player

without repairing

[agile seal]

idk y you would think repairing leg will cost as same as green/blue

[unborn spade]

A gear repair system doesn’t hurt the best players it hurts the mid players who have okay gear.

[verbal marsh]

I actually support the idea of durability loss upon death, no repairing

[jagged thunder]

you dont know if its going to cost at all not all games have the same system

[cyan nymph]

economics baby

[agile seal]

so because you are afraid that dev won't scale repair cost to the item tier, you don't want dev to implement it at all?

[unborn spade]

The best players will consistently have access to the best gear and the ability to fix it because they will accumulate resources at a disproportionately higher rate than other players

[verbal marsh]

Creates a durable value system and filters out reused gear.

[agile seal]

must be really copium in living if you are afraid to try

[lucid root]

As if most players keep their gear for more than 2-3 games anyway

[jagged thunder]

i have no idea what youre trying to say

[lusty wren]

repair system would be a fine gold sink.

As long as its not oppressive

[jagged thunder]

youre assuming that its going to cost resources, plus with seasonal wipes even if it is that way they wont be stacked forever

[verbal marsh]

as long as it is oppressive, if you're going to have durability loss it may as well be to lower the vlue of player drops comparatively to found loot.

[lucid root]

If gear is damaged upon looting then yeah it'll work, but most people won't even have their gear long enough to break

[unborn spade]

The thing that actually would do all the things you’re talking about is an MMR system where players are generally matched against people of similar skill level. That means they’ll generally be against players with similar gear and skill level

[jagged thunder]

hard pass

[cyan nymph]

maybe just implement a durability system on purple gear and gear rarer than that

[agile seal]

no mmr, no repair. must be casual kekw twitch/yt lulz content creator

[cyan nymph]

so its not so hinderin

[agile seal]

just remove "hardcore" part

[unborn spade]

The only people who hate mmr in my experience are bottom of dunning Kruger mid players who want to stomp noobs and not play against people who are actually at their skill level

[agile seal]

if you can't upkeep repair, maybe you shouldn't burn gear for nothing

[lusty wren]

MMR is for casual games not hardcore 😉

[muted crag]

As long as we dont get deminishing returns on repairs.

[agile seal]

yes, because all ranked play is for epeen casual

[cyan nymph]

on another note whats peoples opinions on the weight system thats suppose to come up?

[unborn spade]

“Hardcore games is when I can always play against bad players and never have to worry about seeing people who are similarly good as me”

[muted crag]

Its an rpg, weight is the norm.

[unborn spade]

I think it’s a good theoretical way to balance classes with heavier armors and weapons in addition to movement speed

[agile seal]

there's weight system ingame - just not implemented

you can see it on stat. Assume the typical str = more wgt

[cyan nymph]

i know lol

[lusty wren]

You are projecting. In DaD you can easily catch a much more skilled group off guard and wipe them. It happens all the time. It feels really good to be in all white gear and to wipe a team and be upgraded to purp/gold gear.

[cyan nymph]

thats why im asking on how you think it will be implemented

[jagged thunder]

well if you look at it from that perspective youre probably right, no one is on your level

[cyan nymph]

like a hardcore system from tarkov with momentium or just a "you cant carry this your overweight" thing

[agile seal]

no you can't. Are you saying that in any competitive game, one skilled player will carry three skill players?

[cyan nymph]

and if it will be linked to strength

[agile seal]

If there's 1 faker vs 3 fakers. You always bet on 3 fakers

[lusty wren]

I am talking about DaD not "any competitive game" again you are projecting 😄

[agile seal]

what is "skilled player" to you?

[unborn spade]

MMR also makes the game more accessible to newer players because they don’t have to worry about being steam rolled by people no life-ing the game. I don’t have any issue with no lifers I’m going to no life the shit out of this game but long term health needs casuals and new players

[muted crag]

Ot will indeed be linked to strength

[glacial bridge]

1v3's are very doable in dark and darker

[muted crag]

Ye

[lucid root]

You can definitely catch a better group off guard, just takes a lot of patience. Talking boss fights, picking players off when two separate groups are fighting

[agile seal]

it's not a matter of doable. It's a matter of on "equal skill level"

[lusty wren]

Normal dungeons is the place for noobs and solo. The majority of "skilled" players are going to be in high roller as was seen in the PT's.

|the better skilled team in DaD does not always win. because there are so many different situations that can unfold. You catch a team off guard and you can even the odds

[jagged thunder]

idk id like to see a whetstone or something similar for weapons and a repair kit for armor, maybe have low grade gear have a few durability levels that looses stats each level loss and the higher grade gear gets more durability walls to damage thru to debuff the gear, not completely broke just damaged gear that can gain its stats back with a repair in the dungeon

[austere mulch]

That's what the wipes are for

[muted crag]

Heres the thing with 1v3, most figjts are actually 1v1 with extra teammates outside of friendly fire range.

[glacial bridge]

and once you have a target dead, you have leverage. they cant get the soul but have the obligation

[jagged thunder]

or make a sword completely breakable idk just release more content

[glacial bridge]

and at any point as a solo, you can just leave

[lusty wren]

Being able to punch up in DaD is a great part of the game. You can punch up vs gear, and you can punch up vs "skill" if you are smart or shit even if you just happen to catch them looting and out of position

[jagged thunder]

1v3 is possible so long as you dont sprint directly into them

[cyan nymph]

i feel that durability in this game is just going to push away alot of people is my worry than bringing in more people.

[muted crag]

This is why im not advocating for solo matchmaking, getting a tripple kill and bringing home the bacon.

[jagged thunder]

the way the devs worded it seems like they just wanted to test it so its not something like guilds or more classes where its set in stone

[lucid root]

Solo burnout is real, constsnt adrenaline. wears on your nerves

[cyan nymph]

yeah im down for testing it of course but i dont want it to kill the fun out of it type of thing.

[muted crag]

It requires a lot of patience and positioning to not get flanked, but damn its worth it. Im sure everyone here has gotten more than one player kill in their matches.

[agile seal]

tl;dr it's playtest. add solo queue and durability. Gather data and make decision.

[glacial bridge]

or... dont

[jagged thunder]

they said theyre taking a careful approach to all angles of the game and taking all feedback and building from it

[muted crag]

No, IM does need the data.

[agile seal]

if you are afraid of gather data and test, obviousy you are missing the part of play"test"

There shouldn't be much dev time to implement solo queue. Just add another choice and make sure you are not in group and merry on your way for solo queue data

[muted crag]

"Does a white felling axe cleave my skull in one hit? Yes, good test."

[agile seal]

I don't think any solo queue advocate is saying that "YOU CAN ONLY QUEUE IN SOLO"

You can queue either solo or multi

if you want 1v3 thrill, no one is stopping you

Some player may just want sweaty 1v1

[glacial bridge]

nah im pretty sure its because I am afraid of solos

[cyan nymph]

maybe for the people that want solo que make there be a reward for going solo like in hunt showdown. i dont have a issue with were the games at.

[jagged thunder]

the main problem with solo queues is easy dungeon farming, id like an arena solo queue or 1v1-6v6 to 12man deathmatches with full loot drops and extra 10-20 secs to loot after match is won

[agile seal]

how is it easy?

you still got sweaty 16 players

you can't get res'd

[muted crag]

A reward for not risking going against 3 man teams? Thats backwards.

[austere mulch]

Queueing solo and extracting is either rushing to where portals may be or sneaking around the ring til near last and wiping up the dregs

[agile seal]

pve mob is hard as is

so you want 3v1 faceroll

[lusty wren]

no they arent

[jagged thunder]

you say that until you get every top 10 ranked player running solos

[lusty wren]

pve mobs are a joke once youve played the game for more then 2 hours

[cyan nymph]

i mean in the current form of the game were you go solo but theres groups. i even brought up hunt showdown for example

[agile seal]

instead of saying "get gud" - maybe you should have mentality of "pick your opponent on your size"

if you want 3v3, go ahead

if you want 1v3, go ahead

Some just want 1 v 14

1v1v11v1v11v1v11v1v11v1v1

[muted crag]

You wanna fight 15 rogues? Solo-only is how you get 15 rogues.

[agile seal]

you get the idea

idk, we've seen barb popping off

[austere mulch]

I missed many 1v3 encounters by waiting for sound queues that let me know I wasup against only one or two people

[agile seal]

wiz is also one shot loser

[lusty wren]

Splitting the playerbase is not something that I want to see. Id much rather they try to make it work without as they have planned. If nothing works then sure add a solo queue. But they should be allowed the time to try to make the game how they envision it

[cyan nymph]

that right there explains your mentality

[austere mulch]

Else you book it

[agile seal]

yes, strawman argument is easy when you pick one idea off

[jagged thunder]

i like hearing the 3 man running around fighting then suddenly stop everything to loot

[lusty wren]

Found em! You doxed urself bro. Now your comments make sense

[agile seal]

because you think it will be 16 roguefest

and saying wiz oneshot is still a thing

[verbal marsh]

I've stood under off torches and watched people loot an entire room its not hard : P

[agile seal]

apparently invalidates whole solo queue idea

[glacial bridge]

dont bring up strawman arguments. you're projecting

[lusty wren]

yes it invalidates your opinion 😄

[austere mulch]

Scary to use a throw dagger or projectile and hope none of them saw where it came from

[jagged thunder]

i also think the solo queue takes away from the core experience of the game which is the chance of running into another graverobber party

[muted crag]

Ye

[jagged thunder]

aim for the head

[austere mulch]

Aim for the head and hit their toes, if you use a throwing knife

OR a spider

[jagged thunder]

the drop takes time to figure out

[cyan nymph]

extraction shooters don't really feel that they need solo ques but thats my opinion and others may feel how they do

[austere mulch]

I've laughed and cried with mishaps from those knives

[jagged thunder]

gotta make all 3 count

[austere mulch]

I try to bring 9

[muted crag]

Gotta put rupture and weak point on all 3

[austere mulch]

3 to miss 3 to hit and 3 to hit the wrong target

Wait, do those apply to the knives?

[jagged thunder]

one molotov to finish it up

wrong reply

[cyan nymph]

hahaha

[muted crag]

And a pick to the face for BM.

[jagged thunder]

can you swing the pick like a weapon?

[muted crag]

Yeah

[jagged thunder]

never tried

all pick kills next playtest on my rogue

[muted crag]

Its not good, but eh if a torch works well enough-

Better than a starter rondel im sure.

[unique hazel]

Can someone explain to me what the fighter weaponry mastery perk does?