suggestion-discussion

[wide sage]

that makes way more sense

we're all dumb

[drowsy bramble]

Yes

Idk why it clicked

[somber wind]

I'm just freak out because of ultima's identification system

and barony's

I hear those words and go

FUCK NO

[drowsy bramble]

Hopefully that's how it's done

Would make it so you cant rat loot a body in 3 seconds

[somber wind]

Yeah I'd be very ok with that

[lusty wren]

This would be fine, but i dont want to spend hours middle mouse button clicking on every item to "identify it"

[somber wind]

Oh no it would do it automatically

It's kinda like when you look in a bag IRL and it takes a second for YOU to identify what is inside it

[lusty wren]

ya, id be fine with that. Tarkov has killed me on the "identifying items" thing 😄

[drowsy bramble]

I'm saying that like tarkov when you open a body it would slowly reveal the items. If your intellect is higher it reveals them quicker

[somber wind]

I really do not think a weight system is needed tbh as a side note

what do you guys think?

[south shore]

Hehehe, checked my morality post and 4 goobers downvoted it. Wonder if they've been team killing a fair bit

[somber wind]

I think the inventory size works as is

[drowsy bramble]

God please no

[wide sage]

i also like the scenario of you're trying to quickly loot someones body before running and you're just like "what is it what is it what is it OKAY NICE ILL TAKE IT LETS GOOOOO"

[lusty wren]

Ya, I equated it to the tarkov feature of middle mouse button clicking everything at the start of a wipe because nothing is identified 😄

[somber wind]

Currently planned

If you saw in the inventory

you could see it

also in the trailer

[drowsy bramble]

I'm tired of oppressive weight systems

[lusty wren]

I go back and forth on weight for this game

[somber wind]

they have it working

I would prefer when they do the backpack update

that instead of having a weight system

they had movement speed modifiers on the bags

and if you brought additional bags it would just lower movement speed by bringing more bags

[lusty wren]

I think its important to keep in mind they also said they work in iteration and testing and confirming things work. So just because its planned dont mean it doesnt get scrapped

[somber wind]

a smaller bag could increase movement speed

[wide sage]

a weight system AND a tetris inventory at the same time is too much imo

[somber wind]

with our current bag

being how it currently feels

smaller bags than that increase speed

[drowsy bramble]

As long as it's not oppressive. I should be able to carry as many cups as I want. But I understand if I can't carry 7 battle axes

[south shore]

A bigger bag would be nice

[somber wind]

bigger bags than that decrease

[wide sage]

i like the tetris inventory, i've always liked it

[somber wind]

Tetris inventory is lovely

[wide sage]

but please dont make it MORE complicated

[somber wind]

I do think that if they never give us rotating

we should never get weight

[lusty wren]

Id rather see bag sizes, smallerbags you move faster but have less slots, larger you move slower but have more slots

[somber wind]

I think that lack of rotating is fun in a way tbh

It does add a challenge

[drowsy bramble]

Makes looting take longer which im for

[lusty wren]

This was also a design decision to not allow the turning of ittems

[somber wind]

Exactly what I was saying, that's what I think

[wide sage]

like, fighters wearing heavy armor are punished enough from movespeed, dont also punish their ability to loot

[somber wind]

Yeah I enjoyed that decision

[south shore]

If they do add a weight system to items in inventory, that would only make heavy armor even more worthless

So I doubt it'd work like that

[drowsy bramble]

Make it so worn gear doesn't take weight up

[somber wind]

Let me find from the trailer

[lusty wren]

It would suck for say fighters who already wear heavy armor and would naturally need to pick all that heavy ass armor up

[somber wind]

and also any ingame screenshots in general

[rough elm]

Wanna more inventory space ? Let us rotate items there is always like 3-4 free space blocks that are left because u cannot rotate items

[lusty wren]

Then you compare it to ranger that needs essentially nothing

and can stay fast always

[lusty wren]

Trinkets my man

[drowsy bramble]

Play tetris better. Best believe when I leave every slot is filled

[somber wind]

https://i.imgur.com/pxFfESF.png

There ya go

[south shore]

Okay, I go sleep now

Good night

[rough elm]

Well u can always fill with treasure and u get full inv but still

[somber wind]

You can see "Weight Limit" and Weight: 0/0

this was ingame

while we were playing last test

[lusty wren]

I mean my runs are just treasure runs anyway. Treasure goes in inventory better gear gets put on 😄

[somber wind]

In the trailer on steam

you can see the weight system active

[wide sage]

night fam

[sudden fractal]

I heard that not being able to rotate items is intentional

[somber wind]

night puff ball

[lusty wren]

I am with Z on this if its not oppressive its fine but I like his bag idea much better

[somber wind]

Yeah it's to make the inventory clunnkier

[sudden fractal]

no one seems to like it tho

[lusty wren]

I love it

decisions matter on every level in DaD

and i like that

[somber wind]

I think backpacks with speed modifiers instead of weight system would be best since it would allow for additional bags like they want to do

[sudden fractal]

r we gonna get backpacks?

[lusty wren]

tough storage decisions, tough inventory decisions. I like making choices that effect me

[somber wind]

Yeah that's confirmed, you can see the default bag in the inventory currently

as well as empty slots

for bags to be put into

[sudden fractal]

ahh ye thats fax

[somber wind]

but you cant interact with it

[sudden fractal]

i hope the first bag we spawn with wont be too small :/

[somber wind]

Same

I hope the one we have right now is the default

[lusty wren]

id say half of what we got now is fine for a default bag tbh

😄

[somber wind]

I'd be ok with that too

[sudden fractal]

idk

current bag is a bit big, and if we were to get more better bags then god damn theyd have to be huge

[lusty wren]

YA

i agree

bag would have to be smaller than what we have now

by about half IMO

[somber wind]

Yeah I think half bag we have now

[sudden fractal]

unless they just add a row to each level of bag

[somber wind]

as well as the ability to put additional bags on like those 2 slots

that are shown

[lusty wren]

exactly

[somber wind]

and the ability for bigger/smaller primary bags

[wide sage]

me as a fighter gonna be crawling towards rangers with slow malicious intent

[lusty wren]

Tarkov i feel goes overboard with its weight system

but tarkov also has stamina

so its hard to tell

what just the lack of stamina does to it

[sudden fractal]

i hope they dont add stamina and weight into d&d

[somber wind]

They said they wouldn't add stamina

[sudden fractal]

however, inertia like in tarkov

that could work

[lusty wren]

This is my main worry. because fighters naturally will be slowed down WAY more with picking up items they use being dramatically heavier

[sudden fractal]

especially since its melee focused game

[drowsy bramble]

They are very against stamina

[somber wind]

They said they specifically disliked stamina in games

[drowsy bramble]

Thank god

And I don't believe in god

[lusty wren]

Yes which I am very happy for.

[sudden fractal]

inertia would fix being able to dodge everything by simply walking away from it

[somber wind]

Something I was interested in

[sudden fractal]

and would make blocking alot more viable

[wide sage]

maybe if the perk that decreases armor movespeed penalty ALSO decreased weight movespeed penalty, that could work

[drowsy bramble]

No initeria

[lusty wren]

Yeah that would be a nice fix

[somber wind]

This slot: https://i.imgur.com/U7UIHHb.png

[sudden fractal]

u dont think it'd be good?

[somber wind]

I think being able to dodge is good tbh

[lusty wren]

What if those are waist pouches to give you more waist items?

[drowsy bramble]

No, the combat is purely movement based and for them to change that would leave combat a left click simulator

[somber wind]

I assumed but I'm wondering how that'd work on the UI

[wide sage]

change what exactly?

[sudden fractal]

but thats one of the biggest issues with pvp rn. theres very little technique involved, its hold down W and swing simulator

adding inertia would fix that

[lusty wren]

I dunno, have you watched that fucking rogue dude whats his name?

[wide sage]

no, good fights have footsies rn

[drowsy bramble]

It's not. Atleast not at the higher levels of play. You should be moving back snd forth and side to side

[wide sage]

except for barbs, but that seems like their fantasy

[drowsy bramble]

Jumping on shit and doing parkour around your enemies

[sudden fractal]

but that shouldnt be the case should it?

[lusty wren]

Who knows that rogue dude that is top of the leaderboards every test? Watch some of his videos and say what he does is basic 😄

[sudden fractal]

its super easy to just turn around and hold W

[lusty wren]

that man be duck turning and juking everyone.

[somber wind]

I personally like invalidating hits

by ducking under them

or jumping so they hit my legs

to reduce damage

[wide sage]

genuine question, do you play chiv or mordhau?

[sudden fractal]

sure as a rogue with high agility stat maybe inertia would affect them as much

[lusty wren]

I have played both yes

[hazy cobalt]

Break your back to dodge hits

[somber wind]

Ight guys time to add the bone breaking system from tarkov (please don't this is a joke)

[sudden fractal]

but adding inertia along with faints (cancelling animation mid swing) and refining blocking, it would make it so much more interesting

[wide sage]

then i suppose you already know that watching it looks way more simple than playing it

[sudden fractal]

rogues who cant block will still have movement advantage and shield characters will be able to block more effectively

[lusty wren]

Yes, though I am not sure what you mean by this. Watching this fuck does not make it look easy. Makes a simple system look like it has more depth then one may think

God i gotta find his name

[wide sage]

oh, wait I thought you were saying he DOES make it seem simple

[somber wind]

Tbh I'd prefer hop movement from tribes where you can double tap a direction to hop in that direction with a lower arc than a jump.

[lusty wren]

NO the shit he does shows that there is more depth then just walking forward 😄

[wide sage]

gotcha gotcha gotcha, then we are on the same wavelength lmao

[sudden fractal]

as a rogue with high agi yeah it makes sense that you can do that

[lusty wren]

YOLO RAGE!

[sudden fractal]

but fatty characters cant do that

[lusty wren]

That is his name

[lusty wren]

Yes they can, because he is hardly ever moving out of range, just ducking and turning and manipulating his hit box to not get hit

[sudden fractal]

we r talking ab rogue yes?

[lusty wren]

Pressing W and just swinging is how noobs play. There are definitely finer details. We are talking about YOLORAGE the player 😄

[sudden fractal]

and he plays rogue?

[lusty wren]

He mains rogue yes

[sudden fractal]

and a rogue can afford to make quick movements like that

fighters n barbs cant

[lusty wren]

Other classes 100% can pull off his jukes if they are good at doing it like he is

For example he is really good at ducking and turning his camera to manipulate where his head is any class can do this

[sudden fractal]

hm, well if thats intended then sure. but i swear (i dont remember where i saw it, i think it mightve been the interview with pestily) one of the devs say they dont like how the combat looks rn

or maybe it was another youtuber idk

[lusty wren]

I heard the opposite in the pestily interview that combat is very close to how they want it

😄

[sudden fractal]

huh i see

[wide sage]

as a fighter i was frequently playing footsies with my opponents regardless of class

[lusty wren]

I may have read it tho let me double check

[sudden fractal]

my point is, blocking during pvp? useless

[hazy cobalt]

If you're not at least crouching when fighting, you should reconsider

[sudden fractal]

adding inertia would make rogue with high agi stat still be able to do what rogue does AND for blocking to be viable

[lusty wren]

Depends when I am grouped with strong dps ill just block barbs and let them kill it

[sudden fractal]

thats just my take tho

[somber wind]

How often would you guys want wipes?

[sudden fractal]

depends how its implemented ig

[hazy cobalt]

Seasonally

[somber wind]

So every 3 months?

[hazy cobalt]

However long they decide a season is

[sudden fractal]

id prefer no wipes and just huge content updates and level cap increases

[lusty wren]

Season wipes, so when a nice chunk of new content is available. Much like PoE does it. They start each season with new content and game tweaks

[somber wind]

So I was actually thinking about PoE on this

[wide sage]

blocking needs some touch ups, i agree. currently the fighter cant punish a succesful block, but instead gets punished for blocking

[somber wind]

I would love it if we had Seasonals

AND a permanent server

[hazy cobalt]

They TRIED to fix that with the one passive but...

[somber wind]

Seasonals could get new content before Permanent like PoE as well

so they can tune it for core game

[wide sage]

they just need to stop fighters from being staggered for blocking

[sudden fractal]

PoE has wipes?

[lusty wren]

Eh, but if it becomes like PoE where those are barren id say nuke em 😄 because like in Diablo 2/3/d2r they all get abandoned when seasons start

[wide sage]

the guy who hits the shield should get punished, not the other way around

[lusty wren]

very regularly

[wide sage]

ESPECIALLY with how hard it is to block succesfully

[smoky yoke]

hopefully our chars dont get wiped too? not sure how it would work

[sudden fractal]

like whole inventory?

[lusty wren]

YES! I agree

[hazy cobalt]

Or give them impact resistance, so that a successful block bounces the weapon back

Or something, not sure

[lusty wren]

Well they get pushed to a new server no one plays on. and if you want to play the season you have to restart (So not a typical wipe I guess)

[smoky yoke]

it should get staggered like when you hit a wall
like some delay before to start attacking again

[wide sage]

exactly

[sudden fractal]

also just watched some yolorage, i honestly dont thing the stuff he does is that impressive hahaha

dont get me wrong hes good but the movement u guys r talking about is rly quite simple :p

[lusty wren]

What he does is far from a W holding fest as was said up in the comment by far

[lusty wren]

Then why is he so far ahead of everyone else if its easy?

[sudden fractal]

he still just crouches, looks away from the swing and holds W tho

[sudden fractal]

how far ahead?

[drowsy bramble]

Imo it's skill expressive and it should be like that

[lusty wren]

He was pretty far ahead when I looked during the playtest I cant say where he ended but he was #1 by far and away in the middle of the test

[sudden fractal]

good gear and he plays non stop?

[drowsy bramble]

Nobody plays like him

[lusty wren]

and he solo wipes teams regularly that helps 😄

[drowsy bramble]

If the movement is simple why isn't everyone doing it

[wide sage]

if you look to the right, yolorage is literally a veteran adventurer role

[sudden fractal]

and gets mad when a wizard kills him lol

[wide sage]

which i believe was for people that topped the leaderboards

[lusty wren]

He does and then he say wiz is in a fine place balance wise 😄

[sudden fractal]

i feel like they are

[lusty wren]

Everyone rages at times

[wide sage]

i rage constantly

[lusty wren]

Well I expect top 10 next playtest for you. Ill be watching 😄

[wide sage]

never pay attention to my opinions when im getting mad at dying

[sudden fractal]

alright BET

top 10 bard

[lusty wren]

I dont think bard will be there

but we can all hope

[sudden fractal]

wtf will bard even do?

[lusty wren]

it will be support

[sudden fractal]

what kind tho

[wide sage]

good question

[lusty wren]

Hard to tell, but bard has a pretty extensive kit in DnD so ive been told

[sudden fractal]

we already got heals, we got buffs, we got invis and speed

[lusty wren]

Like being able to turn into things right? Could you imagine turning your barb friend into a chest? or a barrel? 😄

[sudden fractal]

theyd have to get quite creative with bard

plus his weapon is a lute right? wtf is he gonna do play music so loud enemies die? hahaha

[lusty wren]

no

[wide sage]

vicious mockery for life

[lusty wren]

bard uses a musical instrument much like a wizard uses a attunement item. But they still have access to weapons

[drowsy bramble]

It would be songs that give buffs to your team and debuff enemies

[sudden fractal]

i see i see

[drowsy bramble]

Bards should be able to seduce players for cc

[lusty wren]

I dont like hard cc in a pvp game tho so I dunno bout that

[sudden fractal]

imagine "extra damage against the opposite sex" perk

we would have all female bards

[lusty wren]

facts

[sudden fractal]

actually, would that be balanced?

[lusty wren]

probably not

[wide sage]

it would equal out, i think

[sudden fractal]

itd probs make the lobbies a lot more diverse

[lusty wren]

id like to see bard songs differentiate themselves by being active while in a proximity to your team. So you could keep a bard buff up permanently if you continue to sing / play it and stay within range

[drowsy bramble]

Bards have got to dance and do a jig with songs

[sudden fractal]

there was a suggestion i saw few days ago that gives bard ability to make fireplace more effective with his music

[drowsy bramble]

And the music should become increasingly more frantic as someone runs at them

[sudden fractal]

i think thats a pretty unique perk

[lusty wren]

Ya this would be cool

Maybe he can also soothe the mind giving clerics and wiz some spells back like a campfire 😄

[granite plinth]

#d-and-d-suggestions message Flail

[sudden fractal]

yeah like a small campfire ability with just music instead of a fire

dunno if that would be op tho

[jagged thunder]

moving targets are hard to hit, make jump and click their heels

[lusty wren]

I think itd be fine if it had no heal to it

Out of combat regen could also be a bard song

[sudden fractal]

but then unless ur playing a class with spells then its useless?

i think a small heal would be alright

[lusty wren]

Ya so then youd swap it out for a better skill for you situation. This is why we have options

[sudden fractal]

ig

[lusty wren]

I think though there are alot of different ways to go with bard even if it overlaps a bit in some places like shields or minor healing like out of combat regen etc

[sudden fractal]

ayo, bard xp boost?

[lusty wren]

bard song for better item find 😄

[sudden fractal]

yeah

will there be a luck stat?

[lusty wren]

I dunno tbh

[sudden fractal]

itd make sense

luck exists in dnd right?

[lusty wren]

I dont think so.

[wide sage]

no

[sudden fractal]

oh

[wide sage]

you're probs thinking of elder scrolls or fallout

[lusty wren]

STR, Con, Dex, Int, Wis, and Charisma

I believe are dnd attributes

[wide sage]

correct

[drowsy bramble]

Bards could give songs of resistance

[sudden fractal]

charisma*

[drowsy bramble]

Like

[sudden fractal]

thats what i meant by luck

[drowsy bramble]

Magic resistance

[sudden fractal]

i think magic resistence would be too op

[jagged thunder]

charisma should affect agro right?

[lusty wren]

Yes, Id like to see some debuffs also

[sudden fractal]

any ability that can straight up NULLIFY a class should not exist imo

[dark abyss]

Barb’s iron will would like to talk to you 🤣

[sudden fractal]

like yesterday we were talking about spells that can un-cloak or detect invis players

that would literally make rogue useless

[lusty wren]

I think magical and physical resists would just be like a shield if done right but with a bit of flare 😄

[wide sage]

I would like to say that I am in favor of classes directly countering some other classes.

[lusty wren]

I think bards should be master debuffers though.

[wide sage]

as a necromancer advocate i am perfectly fine with clerics completely nullifying me

[sudden fractal]

iron will is a perk for just barb, plus its only 15% dmg decrease its not that much

[sudden fractal]

i hate that, it will turn into rock paper scissors type gameplay. like overwatch

[dark abyss]

I think that’s the closest to “nullifying” the devs want to get

[sudden fractal]

counters

[lusty wren]

But a 10% magic resistance would be fine

[jagged thunder]

for magic damge only tho

[sudden fractal]

i hate counters in games

[wide sage]

I LIKE rock paper scissors gameplay

[lusty wren]

I feel there has to be counters in games like this

[wide sage]

it gives classes a purpose

"this is your purpose barb, go counter the wizard"

[sudden fractal]

classes already have their purposes without directing being made specifically to deal with other classes

[lusty wren]

not insurmountable counters. But gentle ones

[sudden fractal]

thats kinda what we already have

and i think its in a very good place

[lusty wren]

I agree

[dark abyss]

Right now it feels more balanced than most other games

[jagged cedar]

it would be cool if there were class advancement like fighter could turn into magic swordsman or into a death knight or somethin like that

[jagged thunder]

if wizard knows how to play theyll haste/run and cast

[sudden fractal]

wizard uses magic missile at a silly little barb thats running straight at him

honestly d&d is so balanced that i dont want to play any other game

it spoiled me

[wide sage]

and i would like to see the barb succesfully tank it and then murder the wizard

[drowsy bramble]

Not 100%. Like a buff. Let's say a song that gives 15%

[lusty wren]

DaD 😄

[dark abyss]

I’ve heard a lot of people express that they think the wizards are too strong and I’m not quite sure I’d agree

[sudden fractal]

tried playing overwatch earlier and got ganked by a team of meta heros

[dark abyss]

Though the wizard has the highest chance of survival in a 1v3 lol

[wide sage]

if the wizards wants to survive a barb, he should be playing tricks, not out dps his tankiness

[sudden fractal]

its boring to have a meta

[wide sage]

but thats just my thought

[sudden fractal]

and making counters creates a meta

[drowsy bramble]

Everything has a meta

[sudden fractal]

not this game

not yet atleast

[drowsy bramble]

Yes

[wide sage]

as much as I hate metas too, literally everything will have one

[jagged cedar]

is there gonna me new classes or is it gonna be like this till release

[sudden fractal]

tell me a meta that is uncounterable

[wide sage]

meta literally stands for "Most.Effective.Strategy.Available."

[drowsy bramble]

Run wizard with ignite haste invisible fireball and magic missle

[lusty wren]

It does and all games get them. META just means using outside of game information to gain advantage. The masses will always watch a guide and then try to replicate that 😄

[drowsy bramble]

Meta isn't a win con

It's best strat

[sudden fractal]

ok ignite needs a nerf thats a fact, but ive seen plenty of wizards get fucked regardless

[drowsy bramble]

Every game has one and this game. FOR SURE has pne

[lusty wren]

NO. METAGAMING is using outside information (of the game) to gain an advantage

[drowsy bramble]

So? People are shit..doesn't mean it's not rhe meta

[lusty wren]

Which ends up in everyone just doing what they think is "best" from some idiot streamer 😄

[sudden fractal]

so long as theres a meta for every class, and its still viable, then im fine with that

[wide sage]

metagaming makes use of the meta, but it does not change the meaning of meta itself

[sudden fractal]

but as soon as we see 1 character dominating every other character then we r taking a turn for the bad

[drowsy bramble]

He is right

[wide sage]

i literally learned this from game designers teaching game design at college

[drowsy bramble]

Wizard

[lusty wren]

A meta is formed by people telling other people how to be good at the game. Using outside information to gain an advantage 😄

[drowsy bramble]

A good Wizard steam rolls anything

[dark abyss]

Wizard definitely had the highest success rates for 1v3 with it’s kit IMO

[sudden fractal]

do we have stats on how many wizards there were last playtest?

[wide sage]

thats just how the meta becomes widely known

[sudden fractal]

key word, good wizard

[lusty wren]

Very often the META is not in fact the best way to play as pros of games like LoL show

[sudden fractal]

a good barb can do the same

[wide sage]

its also how meta developes and refines so damn fast

[sudden fractal]

a good rogue can also do the same

[dark abyss]

Obviously anyone can 1v3 if played correctly but if I were to bet, a good wizard beats a “good” player of most other classes

[drowsy bramble]

I'm not gonna argue if you dont know the definition of topics you talk about

[jagged thunder]

a good barb cant close the distance against a good wizard

[digital flint]

@granite plinth should open the game to be played again in beta. I just found out about it today and I’m already so hype I want to play 😩

[drowsy bramble]

A good wizard beats everything

That is meta

[sudden fractal]

i dont know what good wizard means? lmao

[sudden fractal]

he doesnt tho

[drowsy bramble]

He does

[sudden fractal]

he CAN beat everything, so can every other class

[wide sage]

"everybody has a plan until someone gets punched in the face." meta is the plan, skill is doing good when theory turns into practice

[lusty wren]

I do think a wizard in the right hands is the most OP class possible

[elder heart]

You should really watch the top 1 wizard games

[lusty wren]

but it also has a higher skill ceiling to hit

[sudden fractal]

i do

[drowsy bramble]

When you talk meta you don't talk absolutes you talk percentages. You are speaking and cherry picking words

A good wizard. 98% of the time wins against any class

[dark abyss]

I think a good wizard has more potential than a good player of any other class

[drowsy bramble]

Hands down no debate

[sudden fractal]

i dont agree with that but sure

[jagged thunder]

wizard is best for pvp, barbarian is going to have to rely on stealth/surprise to kill a wizard

[drowsy bramble]

Don't agree. The playtest does

[lusty wren]

Yes but it has a higher skill ceiling so the average wizard you see is not that strong

[elder heart]

I think that wizard is best played as a solo too

[sudden fractal]

do we have statistics to back that up tho?

[jagged thunder]

open fights wizard/ranger/ then the other classes are about equal

[sudden fractal]

bear in mind i did say i think ignite should be nerfed

[drowsy bramble]

Check the second half of playtest high roller Stat kill leaderboard

[sudden fractal]

wizard 80dmg per swing on dagger is ridiculous

[lusty wren]

The stats they put out for playtest 2 were pretty decent stats. But nothing for 3 yet

[sudden fractal]

but thats the only thing i would change ab wizard

[dark abyss]

Oh yeah, I was dunking on wizards as barb the whole wipe. But 2-3 good chain lightnings = team wipe

[lusty wren]

I also do agree wizard should never be able to become a better rogue

[drowsy bramble]

Meta isn't defined by the average shitter its defined by the best

[elder heart]

ok that was just mean lmao

[sudden fractal]

where do i check that? cant check in game :p

[dark abyss]

A wizard being able to haste for a speed boost and go invisible with a speed boost really does make him a better rogue

[elder heart]

they will probs nerf that

[drowsy bramble]

I'm an average shitter. You probably are too. Most people are below average or average shitters

[lusty wren]

I think some classes should have those higher skill ceilings and when you get good with it you are rewarded by being strong

[sudden fractal]

i think they will yeah, but to what extent?

[dark abyss]

Considering the rogue can only go invisible with hide and crouch walk lmao

[sudden fractal]

do you guys think invis should be removed?

[drowsy bramble]

No

[somber wind]

Yeah but personally I'd feel demotivated not having some kind of permanent mode. Permanent would very much be super sweaty and casual at the same time so it'd be fun for returning players or people who don't want to rebuild and just aren't in the mood for the climb (since seasonal will provide that; not everyone will want that ALL of the time. I'd play both ALOT).

[drowsy bramble]

Buff rogue invis

[somber wind]

Soz went AFK

I think Rogue Invis having the perk for movement by default and having the perk just make it better might be a good way to fix it.

[drowsy bramble]

Wizard shouldn't have better invis then rogue

[wide sage]

I've lost track of the convo, i got so caught up in the meta debate 😂

[sudden fractal]

maybe make wizard invis pulse a little haze every second?

[lusty wren]

Ya, i get that. but that has not been my experience in other games. NON season servers just sit empty for the most part. If it didnt id be fine with it, but if they did they should just remove them IMO

[sudden fractal]

so its still invis but not as good as a rogue invis

[somber wind]

I disagree, a Wizard should out do everyone at anything magic related.

[dark abyss]

I mean when the wizard is invisible you can still hear him but if a solo wizard is up against 3 players, he can haste, invis, and hit 3 chain lightnings to wipe a team

[elder heart]

then why play rogue when you can play wizard?

[somber wind]

1 hit kill poison + rupture

[sudden fractal]

rogue can pick locks and stay invis for longer

[dark abyss]

Especially if wizard can ignite for more damage per hit with a dagger

[elder heart]

ok but you can 3 shot people with ignite and a good dagger as a wizard

[somber wind]

Motionless invis is actually good

[lusty wren]

But it shouldnt be able to become a BETTER rogue

[jagged thunder]

rogue is faster by default and interacts faster, i think strength is higher too?

[sudden fractal]

i dont think wizard is a better rogue tbf

[somber wind]

same

[wide sage]

lets NOT talk about changing the wizard when the biggest thing that MADE wizards into a problem was how insanely their gear scaled

[elder heart]

tru

[wide sage]

fix the gear first, then we can discuss wizards

[sudden fractal]

i heard some arguments about that

[somber wind]

100% it's gear

[lusty wren]

They can become one, 100% ignite and haste alone on a dagger is fucking bonkers. and they have a better invis to better position. LIke what?

[dark abyss]

A wizard can haste, ignite, invis, and 2-3 shot someone with a dagger

[sudden fractal]

i once saw a wizard with all +3 all attr gear with purples and oranges

[drowsy bramble]

This is just a bad take tbh

[sudden fractal]

he casted fireball instantly pretty much

[drowsy bramble]

Like it's not even debatable it's just bad

[sudden fractal]

checked his stats after i died, he had like 37 knowledge? insane

[dark abyss]

Can we talk about drops

[jagged thunder]

a barbarian buffed both wizard buffs and all three cleric buffs double buffs themselves and crunches anything while the cleric heals and wizard missles everyone

[drowsy bramble]

Wizard gear did scale super hard compared to any other class

[sudden fractal]

loot?

[dark abyss]

I never really found any good flanged maces or Morningstars for cleric

[dull tinsel]

At the very least, Rogue Hide should not be breaking when the hiding player touches NPC or PC corpses especially, or living teammates for that matter, current Hide seems bugged or very weird

[sudden fractal]

i did

[somber wind]

Yeah but Rogue can hide indefinitely. This is what I think though: Rogue should have the ability to move in it's invisibility but only while crouched for reduced speed, if they walk normally it breaks it. In addition the Perk that exists for movement would change to allow them to do the equivalent of what Wizard does right now having an amount of time you're invisible but can stand; if crouched it doesn't use up time but if standing it does.

[lusty wren]

I found a bunch, where you bossin?

[dark abyss]

Nothing really note worthy dropped for the cleric. At least in my experience

[sudden fractal]

infact maces and morning stars were my most looted purples lol

and it was stupid cuz nobody wanted to buy

[drowsy bramble]

Sure. They shouldn't be able to sprint but I should be able to move more than 10 steps

[lusty wren]

I found em all pretty much on bosses

[dark abyss]

I found a lot more purple fighter equipment

[wide sage]

they cannot do that anymore

[jagged thunder]

whats the meta 3 man?

[somber wind]

That should be reverted then.

[dark abyss]

My play test was loaded with fighter equipment

[sudden fractal]

cleric

[lusty wren]

rogue hides for less time then most pots bro

[wide sage]

if they cant move, then i agree

[sudden fractal]

so long as u have cleric ur fine

[drowsy bramble]

The most annoying things about rogues was the fact I could get knocked out of invisible by teammates

[lusty wren]

a pot beats a rogue invis 9 times out of 10

[wide sage]

well, move their 10 steps or whatever

[jagged thunder]

3 clerics crushing it?

[wide sage]

thats fine

[somber wind]

Yeah they should revert it to infinite invisibility while not moving like before.

[dull tinsel]

Rogue Hide currently breaks when running into other players (teammates and enemy players) NPCs alive or dead, and PC corpses, at least he happened to me a lot

[sudden fractal]

noooo, go as whatever u want. so long as you have atleast 1 cleric in ur team ur fine

[dull tinsel]

yep, was terrible

[dark abyss]

Cleric barb wiz is a solid 3 stack

[lusty wren]

It is extremely underwhelming atm

[sudden fractal]

never happend to me

[somber wind]

How about that perk that lets you walk 10 steps also makes it so you don't become visible when bumped?

[lusty wren]

no

you get steps and it can be nice, but you still touch anything and its gone

[sudden fractal]

i always had that on

[drowsy bramble]

Make 10 steps base rogue and the perk makes it 30

[dark abyss]

Haste, ignite, invis, the barb. Cleric should buff barb too before he goes in.

[somber wind]

I don't mind that

Suggest it, I'll vote yes on that.

[sudden fractal]

i feel like 30 is a bit too much, maybe 20?

[wide sage]

mmm, im not sure. 10 steps is actually alot

[jagged thunder]

barb/wiz/cler is the meta

[somber wind]

How about this actually

[dark abyss]

How many steps does the wizard get when he runs in invisibility?

[drowsy bramble]

Wizards can sprint across the map invisibile

[somber wind]

5 steps default and the perk adds 10 so 15 steps with perk.

[lusty wren]

A fuck ton 😄 its time limited

[wide sage]

wizards gear is also wayyyy overtuned.

[drowsy bramble]

No. It's none base

[sudden fractal]

idk man, seen a lot of fighters and rangers absolutely dunking on our team of barb wiz cleric

[drowsy bramble]

If you touch your keyboard it breaks

[wide sage]

lets NOT compare wizards to things when their gear breaks their ability to be balanced

[somber wind]

I agree with this

speaking of

[dark abyss]

Exactly so how are people saying 30 steps are too much 😳

[drowsy bramble]

I'm saying let wizards keep their invisible. I want to be a rogue let me sneak around

[somber wind]

should judgement cleric exist?

[dull tinsel]

I think it's fine how it is, as long as bumping doesn't break, considering it's currently a 45s cd, but I think it should be a 30s cd tbh

[somber wind]

By that I mean the 300 damage judgement build

[sudden fractal]

sure why not

[jagged thunder]

usually happens when the wizard and the barb split up and leave the cleric before buffing

[dark abyss]

Absolutely judgement was a critical part of the cleric

[sudden fractal]

300????????????

[somber wind]

Yes 300

[lusty wren]

Wiz also sprints at full haste invis right? YOu have to slow walk or crouch as a rogue

[sudden fractal]

it does 30 dmg doesnt it?

[somber wind]

Let me find a vid

Yes it does but there is a build that can increase it by quite alot

[wide sage]

but rogues dish out ALOT of damage with daggers and poisons, 10 steps to circle around someone while they look for you is already huge

[elder heart]

I had a guy on my team with that judgement build and he one shot people

[dark abyss]

Crouch walking 30 steps is not too many if a wizard can haste run invisible

[wide sage]

im in favor of rogues having infinite stealth, but limited mobility while stealthed

[lusty wren]

I agree

[sudden fractal]

i thought stats dont increase skill effectiveness?

[wide sage]

LET US NOT COMPARE WIZARDS WHEN THEIR GEAR SHATTERS THEIR BALANCE

[somber wind]

Found it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7u4hCasK3E

[sudden fractal]

since a skill is not a spell, and spell power affects spell damage

[dull tinsel]

I dont think you understand how little 10 steps actually is, you can basically full circle a stationary person like twice (without bumping into them so it breaks early)

[dark abyss]

It’s not necessarily about the gear though. It’s about the wizard being able to do more in stealth than the rogue, who is designed to be sneaky beaky.

[sudden fractal]

damn wtf spell power does affect it?

[somber wind]

Yeah

Because it's considered magic

so spell power lol

[wide sage]

I dont think you understand how much 10 steps actually is, you can basically full circle a person like twice

[lusty wren]

You also have to lose a very good perk to get it

[drowsy bramble]

That isn't a thing about gear. That's a naked wizard bro

[sudden fractal]

i thought it wasnt considered magic

does spell power also increase effectiveness of heals?

[somber wind]

Not sure about heals but I do know it affects Poison and Bleed LUL

[sudden fractal]

damn wtf

i need to try cleric next pt

[dull tinsel]

a stationary non moving person, most people are moving, you cant reposition much unless someone is literally standing still

[wide sage]

but naked wizards dont nuclear ignite assassination like rogues can

[drowsy bramble]

Yes. They do. They very much do

We aren't debating damage

[sudden fractal]

what if wizard buff spells can only be used on other players? would that be a good change?

[drowsy bramble]

We are debating base spell effects

[wide sage]

im doubting this, but if you can show me then sure

[drowsy bramble]

We are not debating damage numbers. We are debating base spell effects. Read the messages

[dark abyss]

Regardless of wizard gear, they can haste and use invisibility,, resulting in a 24% speed boost and the ability to move without losing stealth.

[lusty wren]

Honestly this would be fine IMO, maybe have limited defensive spells it can cast on self

[jagged thunder]

wizards with the right spell build are the best for open pvp

[sudden fractal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUIMqBaceUc&t=2s&ab_channel=Skytea

[somber wind]

@wide sage Basically Haste makes them faster and attack faster and ignite puts the damage really high.

[sudden fractal]

this is one example, but the wizard just got lucky af

[somber wind]

Nah should show Melee Wizard for that

[wide sage]

I have been. using two spell slots that require spellcasting time to do dope shit is fine in my eyes.

[dark abyss]

Sky tea is always 1v3ing lmao that man plays very well

[drowsy bramble]

You are. Nobody else is. We were talking ivis and stealth again. Read the messages

[jagged thunder]

wiz intense focus double cast chain lighting to fry you

[dark abyss]

Chain lightning could fry teams so fast

[sudden fractal]

speaking of chain lightning, did u guys know u can chain it off dead bodies?

:)

[wide sage]

I DO, think that invis should cancel out haste and vice versa.

[somber wind]

Yeah but it can also backfire if you aren't careful and end up killing yourself

[wide sage]

but i dont think rogues should get to move more than 15 steps, and i think wizards should keep both spells

[sudden fractal]

i think chain lightning dmg should get nerfed, and thats it

maybe add a tick damage afterwards instead

[dark abyss]

I saw my buddy do it once. Funniest shit I’ve seen in a minute. He didn’t do it since.

[somber wind]

I don't think the damage should be nerfed, I think that the self damage should be doubled

[dark abyss]

The range of chain lightning helps fry from a distance.

[lusty wren]

then make the 15 steps default because you lose very good perks to get it

[sudden fractal]

man i just wanna play again :(

[smoky yoke]

isnt only 10 steps?

[jagged thunder]

i say slow down the wizard and lower their strength increase their will and leave their skills alone

[smoky yoke]

in the perk was written 10 steps, not 15

[wide sage]

no, because the perk is what allows specialization. you sacrifice stealth gameplay for assassination gameplay, or lockpick gameplay, etc

[lusty wren]

ya i think so

[somber wind]

It's 10

[dark abyss]

A lot of players who use chain lightning close enough to hit themself really don’t know how the spells work. Once they realize they can use chain lightning 3 times to fry an entire team before the team can hit them is insane

[lusty wren]

So you just think a wizard should have better stealth than a rogue flat out?

[somber wind]

True

[wide sage]

sure, because rogues are more than just stealth

[smoky yoke]

wizard as invisible does less than 10 steps i believe
but because of haste, it feels way more
thats why imo haste it shouldnt work with invisible
if you cast haste, then it should make unavailable invisible
and tbh haste it would be still nice even if you are still visible

[lusty wren]

so are wizards...ALOT more

[wide sage]

welcome to wizards. they do alot, always have

[lusty wren]

that is not a defense for just straight up becoming a better version of that class. It invalidates it

[somber wind]

I do think that Rogue should be more carried by it's perks, have hide be slightly buffed though

and Wizard keeps invis as it is

maybe lower duration

[lusty wren]

Rogue already is carried by its perks imo, its a ball buster to take it 😄

[drowsy bramble]

It's time based. You can walk while invisible. The distance is what matters

[somber wind]

Even in Dungeons and Dragons this is something that is considered less of an issue because of the perks a Rogue can get

You know what I'd LOVE to see for Rogue

[wide sage]

again, thats a wizard problem, not a rogue problem. and right now wizards are so buffed by their gear that i don't think it does any good at all to talk about wziards as a class until their gear is fixed

[somber wind]

"Extremely tight space" from 3.5e Dungeons and Dragons

the ability to fit into a 2 inch by 2 inch square area

[smoky yoke]

imo the real fix would be the fact once you cast haste then you cant cast invisible together
only as soon haste finish

[lusty wren]

They are a better rogue naked bro

[drowsy bramble]

You should stop saying that lmfao. It's the worst take

[wide sage]

its the take im standing by

[dark abyss]

We’re talking about the wizards abilities not their equipment or damage

[lusty wren]

Wizard naked can become just a straight up better rogue 😄

[drowsy bramble]

It's not relevant at all. You are arguing useless information that brings nothing to the discussion

[wide sage]

so a wizard without a spellbook, dagger, and orb is a better rogue?

[drowsy bramble]

Arguing semantics

[lusty wren]

a naked wizard is vastly superior to a base equip rogue not even a close match AT being a rogue

[dark abyss]

Wizards having the quickest movement speed (with buffs) and an invisibility where they can go 3x the distance of the rogue doesn’t seem like a conflict of interest?

[dull tinsel]

I think Wizards are a fun class with a high skill ceiling, I hope they buff other classes more than they nerf Wizard tbh, I think if all classes were near where Wizard is in general class strength/identity, game would be even better than it already is

[smoky yoke]

once they make not possible to go invisible once you cast haste
it would be pretty much fixed imo

[wide sage]

what do you MEAN semantics. the only way a naked wizard can be a better rogue is if they are able to instant cast anything through stats, their damage is through the roof through STATS, and their buff duration is through the roof through STATS

[dark abyss]

Chain lightning is pretty strong without weapon or equipment stats..

[lusty wren]

They do not need to insta cast. They cast ignite, haste, invis, then go to town

[wide sage]

because with base gear they are NOT as broken as people are making them out to be

[smoky yoke]

going invisible while using haste it feels really too way overtuned as in you can really go behind a team and then casting the projectile missiles

[shrewd lantern]

just remove invisibility and move speed buff from wizzard and all be good

[wide sage]

and chain lightning can also kill the wizard himself

[lusty wren]

agreed

[smoky yoke]

no imo keeping invisibility its fine
as long its not possible to be chained with haste

[wide sage]

im also with this take

[smoky yoke]

like you cast haste but then you cannot cast invisibility
only if haste finishes

[lusty wren]

ya no reason to remove invis as long as haste negates it

[dark abyss]

If we’re assuming the wizard kills himself with chain lightning, he’ll be bad as any class because he doesn’t know positioning lmao

[jagged thunder]

na, lower their base strength and interaction/movement speed and increase their will

[smoky yoke]

yea this is imo the possible real fix

[lusty wren]

Then the wizard is still very strong but doesnt become a better rogue

[smoky yoke]

yea fair

wizard strong but very squishy in the end

[dark abyss]

A wizard can blast chain lightning and wipe an entire team with 3 casts. I agree prohibiting invisibility when using haste (vice versa) that’d be a viable solution

[wide sage]

im foaming at the mouth lmao

i love yall but auurrghh

[lusty wren]

I think they should be able to do this, its kinda the wizard thing. But they shouldn't also be able to be a better rogue so we agree 😄

[jagged thunder]

cant wiz cast invis on other players? it wouldnt work if theyre buffed?

[dark abyss]

I’m glad we can have a conversation about the balance (in our opinions) without throwing insults lmao

[lusty wren]

I think haste on other players should negate the invis also

[smoky yoke]

imo the counterplay its baiting all the spells of wizard then wizards cant do pretty much nothing unless trying with melee

once i baited all the spells of a wizard then started to go away

[wide sage]

agreed

[lusty wren]

Yeah, but atm when you bait all the spells they just become super rogues with their remaining buffs they werent using

[smoky yoke]

[wide sage]

if in my heated passion i have flung out any insults, i apologize

[smoky yoke]

yea

[lusty wren]

I think your solution fits well overall

[smoky yoke]

they cast haste + invisible then they are already in another place

[wide sage]

;-; I said it too..

[lusty wren]

Your solution also fits very well 😉

[wide sage]

❤️

[smoky yoke]

not ironically when you cast invisibility and then haste it does negates invisibility
so it should be vice versa

[lusty wren]

does it?

[smoky yoke]

yea

[lusty wren]

I didnt play wiz

well i tried

a bit

but it wasnt my thing

[wide sage]

doing actions while invis does cancel it out

[dark abyss]

Now I’m just picking at your brains

What are your opinions on people saying. Barb is too weak?

[lusty wren]

ya it needs to work both ways

[smoky yoke]

invisibility once casted, if you cast then haste
it will negate invisibility
for what i recall

[smoky yoke]

yes which reflects even rogue actually
so i think its a mechanic

[wide sage]

yes

[smoky yoke]

like with the other ability of rogue with Q bleeding dagger
while invisibility

so idk

[lusty wren]

I think barb is mediocre to bad with no support. But it becomes a monster with support. I think that is a fun place for a class to be in a team game

[smoky yoke]

strong tbh
its a matter if he misses swings or not

[dark abyss]

As a barb player, I think it’s genuinely a fun class. I think it’s just the “me no think, me kill” orc mindset I always loved.

[lusty wren]

Without support tho you literally counter a barb by letting him swing first then attacking wins everytime with no support

[wide sage]

but like, stacking some buffs is good, but i think magical buffing from the SAME source shouldnt be a thing.
In DnD theres a mechanic called concentration. every buff spell in the game requires concentration, and it means that you cant concentrate on two spells at once, and if you take damage you effectively lose concentration and therefore drop the buff

[smoky yoke]

i guess

[dull tinsel]

barb is pretty strong, but the most punishing in pvp for new players, if you dont learn your movement and positioning it's really hard

[smoky yoke]

hes very kiteable

[dark abyss]

I don’t see why people say he’s the weakest class. I think one of my concerns is the zwei and war maul being the worst weapons due to their swing attacks

[wide sage]

im not sure if the damage dropping it should apply, but you should deffo only have one buff spell active at any given time

[lusty wren]

barb gets strong when its got support, but is just a noob stomper without it. Because noobs dont understand 😄

[jagged thunder]

idk i used barbarian most of my solo runs

just crouch walked and turned out all the lights everywhere

[lusty wren]

I am not saying you cant do well. My buddy does great barb solo. But hes better on every other class solo 😄

[dull tinsel]

main issue with barb is 1) not enough weapons they can use 2) the main starting weapon is pretty trash, Felling Axe having the hidden 2nd attack speed modifier after a successful hit is crazy

[smoky yoke]

depends also by the hp of others
but once you manage to bishot or oneshot because in that circumstance a player had low hp then you can chain kill and sometimes even wiping a team

[lusty wren]

I dont think there is a issue with barb. its a team game, he is a monster with two supports and if you buff him ANY he becomes unstoppable with 2 supports

[dull tinsel]

this is deee way

[dull tinsel]

wait for someone to turn the corner of darkness SHOUT AND CHARRRRRGE

[dark abyss]

I think the barb could definitely use more weapons.

[smoky yoke]

also id like talk about ranger

[lusty wren]

If you give more weapons you have to reduce magical effectiveness on it somehow. Its one of the most OP things in the game with 2 suppports it would be crazy

[jagged thunder]

barb with berserker, iron will, axe +10, and 2hand plus5% and the max health skill played hand in hand with berserker perk and the fear skill debuffed incoming attack so i was decent enough in fights

barb needs access to all 2 handed weapons and more throwing weapons like javelins

[lusty wren]

The last half of the playtest all i did was play cleric with a wiz and barb, we would buff him, and he woudl wreck the lobby he was the most OP thing around 😄 Only ever lost to the same comp doing the same shit to us

we typically joked around in the room behind him waiting for him to slaughter everything

then we would go in and loot

and it was glorious

If you buff barb, this becomes even more unstoppable 😄

[dull tinsel]

I think that would make them a bit too strong

[jagged thunder]

they would have to buy the gear anyways

[smoky yoke]

doesnt have already something to throw? 🤔

[lusty wren]

yes

[jagged thunder]

axes

[lusty wren]

but most barbs refuse to use it 😄

[smoky yoke]

he has some axes to throw already yea

and also throwing knives there are

[dull tinsel]

I think they could use more weapons, not all 2h though

[jagged thunder]

barb cant throw knives

[lusty wren]

im fine with them using all 2hnd weps tbh doenst change much

[smoky yoke]

yea, but tbh does very less damage it seems
only worth throw them if people run away or if theres distance enough

throwing knives iirc also wizard can use them

and as rogue its on their kit

[dull tinsel]

+10dmg on axes worked with throwing axes I believe

[lusty wren]

i dont think they need a jav tho

[dull tinsel]

so they actually hit pretty hard, had a few kills with them on my barb

[jagged thunder]

i dont see why they cant use a halberd or a spear but can use a bardiche and a 2hand sword

[smoky yoke]

yea

[lusty wren]

I do agree, i think they should be able to utilize all 2hnders and dont think it changes much as far as power goes

[smoky yoke]

the axes even way better in term of damage than throwing knives

comparing them

[lusty wren]

but no javas

😄

[smoky yoke]

they probably have a different physics but once they master that its good

[jagged thunder]

they lose power without axes anyways polearms arent much of a buff

[lusty wren]

yeah I agree

YOu would be nerfing yourself mostly

😄

[jagged thunder]

it would allow for different builds

what about all classes using a crossbow but increase reload time ?

[lusty wren]

I would just think a barbarian would be able to swing any two hand weapon pretty efficiently lol

its kinda what they do

[smoky yoke]

things might change very often between playtests and even during early access when the game will be at that stage

[jagged thunder]

how much skill do you need to use a crossbow really?

[smoky yoke]

once they put some training area
then more chances to be skilled with ranged

[lusty wren]

i dont like everybody carryin crossbows at all

I think ranged should be very specialized tbh

[jagged thunder]

wizard can use a crossbow?

[lusty wren]

If they can I disagree with it 😄

[jagged thunder]

not a rogue?

[lusty wren]

dont think so

[dull tinsel]

only the little one

rogue cannot use either

[lusty wren]

that tiny pasty bitch ya maybe

[jagged thunder]

give rogue a single shot pistol or blunderbuss

[lusty wren]

NO

😄

[dark abyss]

LOL

[jagged thunder]

give him grenades

[lusty wren]

he has smoke already

[jagged thunder]

smoke is undervalued and unapreciated

[lusty wren]

I really dislike every class having a ranged option

game will be range and ranger again

[dark abyss]

I think the barb needs the throwing axes

[lusty wren]

barb has them

and its fine

[dark abyss]

For chase down

[jagged thunder]

barb starts with 3

[dark abyss]

Yeah exactly he needs them. They’re not the easiest to hit but the benefits of them are essential for the barb

[lusty wren]

but if everyone has a ranged option all fights will lead to ranged stand offs lol

many do already

we dont need MORE of it

There are already some spots on these maps that are very hard to push range from any direction. it would so often become a ranged battle

ranged should be specialized IMO consistent range anyways

[jagged thunder]

theres multiple chokes and doors/tight spots as well with the zone closing

[lusty wren]

Yes so now those spots that are extremely hard to push a ranged person in now become suicide runs because the zone chokes you into them 😄

if everyone has a ranged option that is consistent the game will be so different in a bad way

[jagged thunder]

wide swings coming from a cleric hammer and a barb axe with magic missle flying down the center, no entry

[lusty wren]

You can push past all those things

bait the wizard and push,

bait the swing and push

[jagged thunder]

every class has a range option tho except the cleric, give them the crossbow and take it from the wizard

[lusty wren]

Not consistent ones

the crossbow is highly efficient

and consistent

[wide sage]

no clue why wizard has crossbow, thats just weird

[jagged thunder]

i didnt know why cleric couldnt use the crossbow or 2 hand shield

[lusty wren]

crossbow does not compare to throwing knives at all crossbow is infinite and much stronger

same with throwing axes

[jagged thunder]

crossbow takes a long reload time

[lusty wren]

they are vastly different

And hits like a fucking truck

now if your rogue buddy hits em also in the head they dead fuck a reload time 😄

It just becomes a range fest. DId you see the first two playtests?

[jagged thunder]

rogue headshot from stealth with the next attack doing extra damage = who killed me?

[lusty wren]

The game was play ranger or lose. Range is VERY powerful and should be very careful with it

[jagged thunder]

i dont like the infinite arrow for ranger

[lusty wren]

Im talking about from range with a crossbow 😄

or pistol as you called it 😄

[jagged thunder]

yea i know you said rogue hitting the head i thought you meant if they could use a crossbow

[lusty wren]

ya, crossbows hit hard as fuck from my experience

dont know the numbers

but they hit hard

Ive for sure seen people go down to two in the head

[jagged thunder]

i was 1 of them

[lusty wren]

lol

that is to strong to be usable by all classes

i dont think wiz should hav eit

either

[jagged thunder]

i think cleric should take that luxury from them

[lusty wren]

maybe

maybe cleric

but not rogue, not barb

fighter already has it

[dull tinsel]

Cleric already one of the strongest classes, no reason for them to get it xD

[lusty wren]

ya that is ahard one

cus cleric is already so strong

its hard to give it anything

[dull tinsel]

Cleric is insanely strong

[jagged thunder]

cleric has no range and cant move or interact to save their life

[dull tinsel]

they're amazing pve, and very good pvp as well, good dmg, great utility, good solo or group, somewhat tanky

[lusty wren]

ya they are in a very good place. I think giving them more pushes them to being too strong

[jagged thunder]

id rather them have more debuffs than a crossbow tbh

or an aoe spell attack that hits players

[dull tinsel]

Flanged Mace/Morning Star were IMO some of the best weapons, high dmg, decent range, decent attack speed, consistent attacks, went over top of shields pretty easily

[jagged thunder]

morning star with kite shield was the way to go

[dull tinsel]

they dont need aoe attack spell that dmgs players, you cast divine strike + smite skill + war maul = aoe against players lol

can also do the drunk buff, they can hit like trucks, even with 1h it was insane dmg

[jagged thunder]

you cant do that if youre a support cleric

[dull tinsel]

if you're a support cleric you arent worried about dmg, you dont need a crossbow

[dark abyss]

That’s a build issue lol

[dull tinsel]

or an AoE pvp skill

[dark abyss]

If you’re support you’re not supposed to do crazy damage…

[jagged thunder]

so give them a casting build? dont clerics attack with spells

[dark abyss]

I think Cleric is honestly in a good state. Not too strong, not too weak, can actually play solo if you’d like.

They heal and buff

Think of a priest in WoW or healer role.

[jagged thunder]

they also debuf and deal magic damage

which they dont do efficiently with spells

[dark abyss]

I think between judgement and their buffs/heal, they’re in a balanced and strong state tbh

But ultimately it’s not what I think, it’s what the devs think

[jagged thunder]

judgement takes up a skill and doesnt change the one spell tree build

they need more spells

[smoky yoke]

do you like my recent suggestion
i think it would fit 200%, and very lorewise

forgot to add that in this book it can make you inspect their model by rotating them and when you click on them they play their voiceline sound for a brief and also do their attack animation
just to animate also the thing a bit

[wide sage]

I like it

I think hunt showdown has a similar mechanic

[jagged thunder]

i was thinking monster hunter world

[smoky yoke]

ah didnt know
but yea, it think it would fit very much
and also adding some lines about enemies so theres also some cool lore about

there was also something similar to Nioh games
like a monstrology

[smoky yoke]

also that could work

[jagged thunder]

what about a tavern that i can gamble with other players at in dice/cards?

or a menu like the trade chat

[wide sage]

Id love tavern minigames

Ways to fuck around socially is always great imo

[smoky yoke]

yea tavern minigames cool things to do while waiting
maybe something like the game where you can do arm wrestling lol

[jagged thunder]

can gamble and talk to a potential trader at the same time

[smoky yoke]

if they do a lore book i hope this lorebook would like librom from soul sacrifice delta
would be cool

[wide sage]

Being able to gamble on whether or not other parties will survive

[smoky yoke]

soul sacrifice delta also a bit its fantasy like

but the most games similar to dark and darker
but just as singleplayer maybe it's King's Field

[distant night]

skeleton in a barrel reminded me of that

[smoky yoke]

yes

[jagged thunder]

i just want to gamble dice and cards when i dont want to raid the dungeon

[smoky yoke]

actually dark and darker gameplay its not different from king's field
because its very based on king's field when kiting enemies back and forth

[jagged thunder]

or like a fist fight

[distant night]

Ik its fun in the playtest but if enemies dont get more interesting attack behaviors its gonna get kinda boring, already was for me in that one specific room with the 7 mummies, aswell as the lion chest room with 4

[jagged thunder]

id like to see quick goblin mobs with weapons

or drakes/vampire bats

[distant night]

yes definitely goblinos

[smoky yoke]

bats, snakes 🦇 🐍

actually why not also real vampires 🧛‍♀️

🧌

[distant night]

there are 2 types of bats already lol

[smoky yoke]

oh really? didnt see them 🤔

[distant night]

not conventional bats tho....

[smoky yoke]

[jagged thunder]

theyre flying skulls and some type of bug

[smoky yoke]

aah

[distant night]

man bats

[smoky yoke]

i remember

[jagged thunder]

a big mansized vampire bat would be something fun to run away from

[smoky yoke]

not sure, but i think pve its more secondary btw
the developer said the AI of enemies will be tweaked over time
not sure if by adding new attack or ect

i think in the high roller dungeons they should spawn randomly just for the effect surprise but dunno
or maybe at least in the B3 layer

[sullen gazelle]

well they also said balancing is not in their priority at all so

[smoky yoke]

something that does differ at least and not the same thing over and over

[smoky yoke]

they said nerfs and buff will come at anytime
and i agree on that anyway
balancing it should be the last concern

[distant night]

all im saying is that walking back counters every melee mob in L1 rn

which gets repetitive

[jagged thunder]

its a pvpve so its two in one you gotta pve with other players who want to pvp, adds to the difficulty of the dungeon and makes up for the lack of competition in the mobs by throwing random attacks at you like a DM

[smoky yoke]

yea but its kinda like that the dungeon crawler genre

even in the 90s games was like that
but i can understand

[distant night]

a stab type attack you have to dodge sideways would change things up every once in a while

[smoky yoke]

sometimes skeletons make a vertical slash where you actually can dodge sideway but since they do 2 attack animations its always better kiting backward

flying skulls also and wraith usually by strafing also works

[distant night]

If they moved forward with that down slash, you know

[smoky yoke]

yea

[sudden fractal]

3 isnt there? there are normal, bloody, and elite

and potentially electric elite

never seen those tho

so thats 4

[jagged thunder]

what about a man sized drake?

[distant night]

ah but i meant the flying skulls and the gargoyle from the lower levels

[sudden fractal]

gargoyle?

[jagged thunder]

gargoyle

[distant night]

theyre called man-bats, i think

[sudden fractal]

we have those?

[distant night]

loool

[sudden fractal]

as in enemies or the statues?

[distant night]

flying enemies, they push you around with their attacks

[jagged thunder]

like the cartoon

[sudden fractal]

ohhhhhh

[smoky yoke]

in the inferno maps

[sudden fractal]

the big bats

those arent called gargoyles are they?

[distant night]

my group called them that and i dont remember the name on the interact message so..

[smoky yoke]

idk, i dont remember their name in the kill feed
i think in the inferno map theres no kill feed iirc

[sudden fractal]

fair fair

[smoky yoke]

or maybe because the high roller dungeons the last time i played

[winged girder]

they're man-bats on interact

[smoky yoke]

ah ok

[sudden fractal]

theyre called gargoyles on the wiki tho

tho i dont trust the wiki, its very unfinished

[smoky yoke]

mmh idk
thats why a bestiary would be cool, like i suggested
some cool lorebook
just to check their info and all inside the book with lore notes and also interesting infos about them

[sudden fractal]

ye i liked that suggestion

[smoky yoke]

[mental harness]

bestiary = pokedex?

[sudden fractal]

ye

[mental harness]

would be cool if there was an "inspect monster" skill everyone had for the bestiary, takes 10 or 20 seconds to inspect a monster corpse in order to add to bestiary, so it's not risk free

[sudden fractal]

just make it so u unlock more info on the mob the more you kill them

ez

[smoky yoke]

yea

like killing them to unlock their info gradually
like killing 20 spiders it unlock the basic description, then the lore one and ect ect
and then the math info like headshot weakspot, weakness ect ect
but any stuff could work

then you can rotate their model in the book to check the model just for fun so its also animated

[sudden fractal]

maybe not 20

thats a bit overkill for basic description

[smoky yoke]

lolol

yes

[sudden fractal]

5 kills for basic description

and then 50 kills to get all the info

[smoky yoke]

yes sounds good

[sudden fractal]

cant wait to see what new mobs they add

[smoky yoke]

so killing mobs also will reward the knowledge because you get by killing them so you aquire the knowledge and then the book will appear with the data you discovered while fighting them

[smoky yoke]

i believe we might see some sort of bandits seems like

[sudden fractal]

bandits?

idk ab that

is that confirmed?

[smoky yoke]

not sure actually but i remember the dev saying something about bandits
im going to check again

[elder heart]

I got only one thing to say to people who want solo queue

git gud

[sudden fractal]

couldnt agree more

[smoky yoke]

what is it a solo queque btw?

like 1 vs 1 of 16 players?

[sudden fractal]

no

it means no teams

[elder heart]

yeh

[sudden fractal]

only solos

[smoky yoke]

ah ok

i dont think its even balanced as solo for pve most of time so i doubt they will add a solo queque 🤔

as they said its oriented for party

i played most of time solo
and once i played already with duo, it was already way better
i just hope it remains the ability to go solo vs teams tho just for fun
i dont wanna get matched with randoms to make a team 🤔

[hollow flicker]

Solo Q would be harder for the baddies anyway tbh

[sudden fractal]

theres nothing more satisfying that 1v3ing

and its very possible

[smoky yoke]

yea

[hollow flicker]

you have 15 groups of 1 to contend with and they will know you're alone so will be out for blood

[smoky yoke]

once i outplayed some trios as solo and it was cool

[hollow flicker]

I did too but it was not the exception

[smoky yoke]

like game minds

mind games * i meant

[hollow flicker]

I only fought 3 when i was testing out crazy strats or when i was backed into a corner

one of my 1 v 3s was as a cleric

[elder heart]

and you can usually escape teams of 3 if you want

[hollow flicker]

and i had surrender emoted them first

[smoky yoke]

yea true

[hollow flicker]

yes I just stay hyper vigilant and if i hear more than one pair of footsteps to take another way

[elder heart]

yeh

[smoky yoke]

once as rogue some trio chasing me and instead to go invisible with a door locked (they would known i was there)
i just opened the door and then went invisible
so it gives the doubt and they tought i ran away when in reality i was hiding there

but as everyone, when someone chases you pretty good stuff is to sacrifice the gear you have equipped and discard them quickly opening the inventory while they chase you to gain more movement speed
as last resort

[minor venture]

buff wizard weakest class

nerf fighter

and barb

[sudden fractal]

??????

wtf kind of wizards have u been playing against lmao

[minor venture]

they use light orb and it too strong

[sudden fractal]

oh HAHAHAH

thats fax tbf

[minor venture]

every other spell weak

[void elm]

barb def don't need nerfs. I played throughout the whole thing. barb was fine usually. I think its weakness is in barb's abilities, they weren't the greatest, u had to be point blank in front of the opp for them to be useful. barb was great for pve thx to the dmg and fear ability it has, and in pvp barb was ok, and lost to range very easily which is expected

[wicked tree]

honestly the more i played the more i realised each class shined in certain combat scenarios

[sudden fractal]

fax

the game is super balanced

i honestly believe theres no such thing as a meta setup

anything is viable

[wicked tree]

it kinda is cleric is a god with prep time as is wizard with something to distract for them barbarian is good if you can catch people off guard fighter is the most allrounder and balanced in nearly all combat rogue excels at ambush

[sudden fractal]

the meta is more based around gear

which makes sense

[wicked tree]

exactly

gear difference is night and day