suggestion-discussion

[tribal cradle]

and to butt heads about stuff cuz we wanna play DnD

[fallen umbra]

And you could still give your friends that gear

[radiant wave]

i made a suggestion just see how many downvote itll get

[wispy patrol]

Honestly, I don't think its pointless. I've asked some questions that I got great answers from you all on. Helps me understand.
I fully believe there is middle ground on some of these topics.

[rapid ibex]

who pinged me here-

[ancient briar]

where

[tribal cradle]

I mean there's nothing stopping you from just trading the pants to your friend and having them trade it back to your other character that wants it

[radiant wave]

the Phantom invisible monster

[ancient briar]

mustve been long time ago. i woiuldnt search for it if i were you

[tribal cradle]

so may as well add gear transfer between alts and add a fee maybe

[white cliff]

No like I said before I like discussing game design lol.

Me holding gold is different then me snowballing with gear sets. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with the market all too much, but gear is a few hundred gold for top rolls if not more.

[rapid ibex]

i guess yeah i cant find the ping or mention

[glacial bridge]

why not have the dynamic of risk/reward of taking a valuable item into a raid and being forced to win that round. Sounds more fun to me

[radiant wave]

its the one about adding a Phantom invisible monster 😛 people hate it and i knew they would

[tribal cradle]

I agree, I'm just saying players are going to find ways to transfer stuff to their alts regardless. Making it a controlled feature might just be better

[wispy patrol]

Absolutely, but us players who has the 3k+ gold snowballs gear through gold constantly. And by the time we actually wipe again we have earned that and more gold back.

[fallen umbra]

Maybe a bad take; I don't like the market too much.

[white cliff]

But imagine if I could horde gear sets and not gold, the snowball would be even bigger.

Eventually I run out of space and need to drop about 10k

Because I died, it’s inevitable.

[fallen umbra]

I think with shared storage the market wouldn't be necessary. Would make getting incredible gear hard and not just a gold grind

[glacial bridge]

at the end of the day. I just like that the current system created an incentive to constantly change things up with our team-comp. Based on what we find together, we have extra reason to talk about strategy. Lowkey I find it funny to play contrarian to solo-only players for no reason other than I know they dont like it

[white cliff]

They want the market to be used though it’s why the merchants suck.

[fallen umbra]

So, you just like instigating because you're immature

[white cliff]

The players form the economy.

[tribal cradle]

Oh wait are you saying that you shouldn't be able to trade at all?

So that you HAVE to go into game to transfer gear to friends

[wispy patrol]

No, it would actually be smaller. The market allows for personalized snowballing. If the snowball was limited to the gear you had in stash you would be much more limited in what was available and would be promoted to switch classes more often.

The only difference in the gold sink fee of 15g which is not actually enough of a fee considering you never had to have that item take inventory space.

Gold hoarding is more of a snowball than item hoarding.

[ancient briar]

I liked it though. It would be hard to balance it if you wouldn't have a Wizard and its Light spell.. but.. What they could if you attack an invisible monster it'd reappear for 2 seconds.

Something similar to a Stalker in Tibia.

[glacial bridge]

scroll up and bring some receipts. Ive been making arguments this entire time. It is way too late for you to get butthurt and start calling names

[fallen umbra]

"Lowkey I find it funny to play contrarian to solo-only players for no reason other than I know they dont like it" You are literally arguing for no reason then but your own amusement

[fallen umbra]

Ideally yeah

[wispy patrol]

It's exactly how capitalism works. By having a medium (gold/money) that bypasses the need for bartering you create a market where gold/money is what is actually of value rather than the assets.

[fallen umbra]

If you wanted to give your friends gear

[gray vessel]

I think that means he likes it for no reason, but he isn't purely making the argument for that same reason. He still believes in the argument.

[fallen umbra]

But I think having individual shared storage would make it better

[white cliff]

The gold sink is when I pay 10k for a set though. And my storage is 90% gear because I pick it up constantly, I have no problem keeping two really good purple and orange sets, and I can’t imagine being allowed to keep even more. It’s a gear/stat dominated game, the combats not super diverse.

[fallen umbra]

Yes you are correct sorry

[radiant wave]

yeah thats why i went back and added the wiz light the ranger foot prints perk and maybe stacking torches thrown in a room lol idk game need an invis monster tho to add to the chaos but maybe they dont want invis monsters

[glacial bridge]

You made it clear 45 minutes ago that no amount of evidence means anything to you at all. Why not keep it going for amusement

[tribal cradle]

Well, they could also change the trading fee to scale with item rarity

[ancient briar]

it's a skill problem :/ not every player is skilled and are worried about the invis monsters.

[tribal cradle]

to incentivize using it or giving it to friends in game

[fallen umbra]

I have also brought logical arguments for why it would work and help which you so equally adamantly ignored

[tribal cradle]

Or make it so trade licenses expire after time or x amount of uses

etc.

[fallen umbra]

Yes! The shared stash would literally do that

[wispy patrol]

That gold isn't actually in a "sink" though maybe 100 to 200 of it is. But the rest just trades hands.
Your statement is literally that gold is what snowballs.

[radiant wave]

everyone got 3 torches tho 😛

[wispy patrol]

A "sink" is a mechanic that causes the resource to leave the hands of the player base entirely.

[tribal cradle]

Sink would be like a repair fee for gear

which I hope never happens....

[white cliff]

Yeah I misunderstood what you meant. Also durability and weight are planned lol.

[ancient briar]

I think 3 torches shouldn't make the monster visible. I am against that idea 😄
I think the monster should make itself invisible but the moment it attacks you or is near you it becomes visible. Anyway, I'd like to see a monster named "Stalker" mechanics from Tibia.

[wispy patrol]

Considering every merchant has a "repair" tab...

[tribal cradle]

Wow never even noticed that

Well I guess it gives gold more uses

🗿

[white cliff]

Yeah I suppose you’re right.

[wispy patrol]

I mean... repairing would be something only those who extract would have to do. Basically it would slow down the snowballing of geared out players.

[glacial bridge]

i like repairing between rounds, it would suck though to have a piece break mid-raid

[radiant wave]

yeah i know lol but it would be funny seeing ppl throw all there torches in a room so they dont get jump scared by them 🤣 also thanks for liking it tho ( idk about the stalker ill look it up tho good name tho )

[ancient briar]

it would suck but it would be cool.

[tribal cradle]

That might be a nice boost to some of the slower weapons. Getting hit by the maul or bigger 2h's or blocking them would cause alot of durability loss

[glacial bridge]

as long as its clear how the system works then im fine with it.

Rogues could also have some piercing/ignoring armor type perks

[tribal cradle]

Maul having a block break-through mechanic might be a good way to help balance it too

[wispy patrol]

My worry about that is it would affect melee classes more than ranged/magic classes. Considering magic/ranged classes would probably die before their gear breaks.

[ancient briar]

Do we even need any armor piercing attributes with current game? I don't find those armors to be defensive enough

[glacial bridge]

nah not with the current game, but who knows how it will feel after talent trees etc

[tribal cradle]

Perhaps making magical equipment and ranger weapons lose durability faster by usage would help balance that

since you won't be taking many hits anyway

[radiant wave]

id be cool with a stalker just looked it up

[wispy patrol]

I mean you can get both physical and magical resistances up to 30%+ dmg reduction. Which is a significant enough amount that piercing could be valuable.

[wispy patrol]

True, I still think live match durability causes more problems than it offers solutions.

[glacial bridge]

<running away> <get chopped in the back> <chest armor breaks which improves your speed so you escape>

[ancient briar]

yeah, the wizard from that game have the spell to reveal them.. but also any damage towards those monsters reveal them until they go invisible again.

[white cliff]

Not sure how I feel about a weight system though. I want the game to feel fun not like a simulation. Probably why I never go into tarcov at all.

[tribal cradle]

Weight simulation would make barbarians the pack mules of groups

which... is fine... lemme hold your treasure

i'll give it back i promise

[glacial bridge]

weight may also encourage Rogues/Rangers camping blue stones

they dont want to lose move speed, so just hold out and loot a player at the end

[ancient briar]

I think with the weight system they'd need to allow us to drop the bag that we carry. If that's where the weight system is going - to reduce your movement speed.

[tribal cradle]

that would be hilarious to just snag someone's bag while they're doing a lich fight and dipping with it

[white cliff]

@radiant wave You typing up a thesis? Or did you go afk?

[ancient briar]

😄

[radiant wave]

lol i was thinking 😛

[tribal cradle]

You're gonna scare him away

[white cliff]

Lol

[wispy patrol]

Weight affecting looting would be sucky. But if it affects speed based off of your equipment.. that might be a happy medium.

[radiant wave]

thinking about counters to see the invisible monster and i guess i hit a key 😛

[tribal cradle]

Mimics still jump scare me after 100 hours I would hate invisible monsters

not from a gameplay point of view but just bc I'm weak of heart

[radiant wave]

yeah everyone one would even me but it would be a great addition to the game

[glacial bridge]

how about invisible but you see their footprints on the ground + hear them?

[ancient briar]

It'd need to have same mechanics as rouges/wizard's stealth

the moment you touch them they reappear.

[wicked leaf]

This game should expand it's target audience

BattleRoyal PvP is awesome, but there is more to DnD can "grab"

[radiant wave]

sound would be a good idea but i want them to be a jump scare tho lol

[wicked leaf]

Same here lol. Every single time I jumped.

[radiant wave]

lol am i dying from a invis wiz or rouge or phantom 😛

[glacial bridge]

keep in mind that popularity for a game like this is a signal for other developers. even if DaD dont make a pve mode, developers paying attention can see posts requesting a D&D Co-Op Dungeon Crawl game. do it correct and theres an audience there

[gray vessel]

^

[wicked leaf]

I just wish that DeepRockGalatic dev started doing a slow combat and D&D class like Dark n Darker did. The immersion of thoose games are so good, damn

[wispy patrol]

Totally there is no reasons I couldn't go hire a team and start development on a PvE roguelike first person extract-looter

[glacial bridge]

also expect some potential Medieval type BRs/Extraction games not necessarily with the D&D feel but a fantasy theme

[wicked leaf]

The thing is the "slow combat". Everything now is fast. But DnD is hard and slow

My suggestion to expand target audience got downvoted.. Lol, i just suggesting to dream a little bigger. Not only BR

[radiant wave]

im all for others to do a variation on this game phasmo had alot and some of them are pretty good

[glacial bridge]

i would say that the devs got this far based on their passions. they should continue on the path that inspired them. After they have "succeeded" in their vision, then consider branching

[wicked leaf]

You said it all. ❤️

[tender remnant]

Would like to see people's thoughts on these: https://steamcommunity.com/app/2016590/discussions/0/3725071921954416923/

[fallow pilot]

Please share your thoughts on:
Add some kind of microtransaction for people who dont want to play the game as much but still want good loot. You can add some items that are better than what you can get from drops and are permanently in your inventory.(Other people cant pick them up off your body and if you die you can respawn with them just to balance them out and make sure people who spend money have a better chance to win)

[gray vessel]

I can't argue if its > $1000

[fallow pilot]

make it over 1000

[viscid mango]

I don't have time to see my suggestions ID before the message disappeared. Any way to know it?

[ancient briar]

+50% loot for the whole lobby?

[fallow pilot]

nope just for yourself

go upvote it

[glacial bridge]

i like it.

rewards people who are winners in real life to remind those gamers that they will always be beneath

[fallow pilot]

facts

[ancient briar]

I am unsure what I think of it. I do like it and I don't. Let the devs and public decide

[fallow pilot]

how about you form your opinion asshat

youre part of this community too bro, take some space

[ancient briar]

I am neutral. I guess it depends how they implement the boosts.

[granite plinth]

bro sittin in the suggestion cuck chair

[gray vessel]

I'd also be down for p2w to boost everyone in the lobby, i.e. for each person who bought a boost the total dungeon loot goes up by 10%

[unborn raptor]

Na no pay to win shit. The devs are actively against that too.

[granite plinth]

if theyre against microtransactions im against the dev team

[unborn raptor]

We don't need Diablo and Darker: Immortal

[unborn raptor]

Cool, bye.

[fallow pilot]

thats pussy as fuck

[unborn raptor]

You're the kind of person who falls for crypto rugs pulls.

[fallow pilot]

man FUCK you

[ancient briar]

why do you get triggered toby

[unborn raptor]

You wish

[ancient briar]

relax, why you care about the 'beneath person'

[unborn raptor]

He probably got scammed by zoocoin lol

[granite plinth]

i want microtransactions so i can spend my crypto gains

[fallow pilot]

you sound broke as fuck, only a broke boy would be against micro transactions

[ancient briar]

I'd like to have blue portal scrolls in $store. I'd be down for that

[fallow pilot]

but what do i know

[unborn raptor]

Cry more?

[granite plinth]

that is the dumbest shit ive ever heard

[ancient briar]

Said DeepSeaMonkey

[weak mist]

@ancient briar id like the blue portal scroll if it was $20 usd for each one

[granite plinth]

now youre on to something

[ancient briar]

Imagine selling those scrolls for items in game. Lovely

[unborn raptor]

And make them NFT's while you're at it.

[glacial bridge]

im gonna write these down and pretend they were my ideas

[unborn raptor]

It's too bad the devs aren't going to add the p2w shit. Tough L for the whales who want their games played for them

[granite plinth]

there is literally nothing wrong with wanting to support the devs and also getting something in return

[unborn raptor]

P2W won't support the devs in the long run. They already said they're looking at cosmetics. Hell, they had them in the last playtest, they're just not adding p2w shit.

[fallow pilot]

If you dont have money you can always just grind to get stuff as good as I'll have. I dont see the problem, I just dont want to put the time in.

[ancient briar]

Toby's got a point though

[unborn raptor]

You won't have cool shit because there won't be buyable gear. Stay mad.

[glacial bridge]

will you atleast agree to speed potions? nothing crazy maybe just like 20% for the duration of a match

[unborn raptor]

I'd rather there be a hyper where you and everyone are faster.

[glacial bridge]

resurrection feathers?

[unborn raptor]

Faster circle. Faster playtime, faster enemies.

[glacial bridge]

strength elixirs?

Circle immunity?

[ancient briar]

A stone that kills all enemies nearby?

[granite plinth]

I feel like you should at least to be able to buy gold and character levels

[weak mist]

i think there should be a vip membership you can buy that gives you 30% extra health and +1 to each attribute

[glacial bridge]

it would be fiscally irresponsible not to do that

[gray vessel]

I'd like a p2w sword that instant kills 1 player, but gets used up after 1 use

[granite plinth]

thats actually smart af

[fallow pilot]

Just make sure to upvote my post

[glacial bridge]

yeah for sure. thats definitely the button i clicked

[unborn raptor]

I won't since you didn't ask nicely.

[gray vessel]

I wouldn't even be mad if I died to the p2w sword insta kill, as long as I know they payed $1250 for it

[unborn raptor]

Curious what the dev meant when they said "we're all fans of minecraft" when describing the crafting system they have planned.

[granite plinth]

WoW has a p2w system where you can pay for gold

probably the system theyre going for

[weak mist]

@unborn raptor you might have to place things in a grid to craft it. but i think you should be able to purchase more crafting grids with usd to make mega armor

[unborn raptor]

No, they're looking to do cosmetics or "Whatever the community is comfortable with". If you read their about they said they're specifically against predatory practices in gaming.

[granite plinth]

thats literally not predatory

its not like theres loot boxes

[unborn raptor]

Isn't it?

[fallow pilot]

yeah lootboxes are p2w

paying for good gear isnt

[weak mist]

they should add loot boxes i love gambling it makes life more colorful and awesome

[ancient briar]

RMT @fallow pilot . You'll have your way one way or another. One way benefitting the devs pocket or venezulean player's pocket.

[unborn raptor]

You're either a troll or really dumb.

[fallow pilot]

whats RMT

[ancient briar]

Real money trading, very popular among multiplayer games

[fallow pilot]

hmm

[viscid mango]

Am I dumb or don't I just edit suggestions like this:

.edit [188384] [I want to suggest....]

[fallow pilot]

I think it should be in the game by default though as I wouldnt want to lose loot I spent money for, you know what I mean?

[weak mist]

why have rmt when you can give the devs money for legendary gear. win win

[granite plinth]

i think i would be fine if lootboxes for cosmetics but I think you should be able to flat out buy items/ gold

[gray vessel]

It took like 10 mins for the bot to edit mine

[viscid mango]

Ah I just keep being told I didn't put a valid ID

[ancient briar]

Well seeing the public opinion on p2w items I don't see much chances that you'll see what you want to see, especially when devs themselves (I have not witnessed it) said that they'll do stuff as long as community is fine with it. So far the community is against p2w.

But RMT will exist and that's the way you can gain your stuff.

[gray vessel]

that's because your id is: 1502366

[unborn raptor]

It's literally on their website. Go watch the Pestily interview with the dev.

[lusty wren]

I would be fine with predatory acts in my gaming industry! Keep on shoveling the shit and ILL kEEP SWALOWING!

[ancient briar]

You can expect secret facebook pages with RMT.

[ancient briar]

Well I never claimed that you guys are lying, I just said that I have not witnessed it, and honestly I don't care what they do with the game.

[granite plinth]

Radioactive Microsphere Therapy?

[viscid mango]

Oh yeah true, that was just random numberss i typed in this chat.
@gray vessel been typing it like this:

.edit [1502366] [Adding more physical textures to the swarm..... ]

[ancient briar]

you've got as much IQ as your nickname shows.

[lusty wren]

I thought you didn't care? Personal attacks not only point to lack of argument but that you do in fact care 😉

[white cliff]

Chinese gold farmers don’t want you to know this one big secret.

[ancient briar]

Another IQ master.

[white cliff]

Click now to learn more!

[lusty wren]

Gain an argument eh 😉

[white cliff]

Guys I think this might have been sarcasm.

[ancient briar]

How would I dare to argument with such intellectual people :/

[lusty wren]

No shit? 😄

[white cliff]

😂

Not sure why he started berating you.

[fallow pilot]

#d-and-d-suggestions message

[ancient briar]

Toby, are you aiming for 100 dislikes?

[white cliff]

Oh Jesus you got downvoted into oblivion.

[ancient briar]

I have gotten 34 so far. That'd be my record

[white cliff]

Here take one more.

Obvious bait is obvious and I’m here for it.

[radiant wave]

damn i was going for most downvotes

[ancient briar]

It's raising at rapid rate.

[radiant wave]

mines at 28 i never get it now

[wicked leaf]

I was reading the suggestions... God so many

They will read so much stuff, I hope they can read mine
https://steamcommunity.com/app/2016590/discussions/0/3725071921954516376/

[gray vessel]

Hopefully they can order it by top voted

[wicked leaf]

They need to open sells

They should "embark" the hype

More money comming in = More motivation to end this game and make it better ( and more money to hire more dev )

[inland pelican]

I don't think they look at anything with less then 20 up votes here

And I can't blame them

[ancient briar]

@fallow pilot #d-and-d-suggestions message

[inland pelican]

I like them being paid as they should, don't like where that big a safe pocket for pay would lead

[ancient briar]

8x8 is a bit much. 4x4 would be more than enough

[white cliff]

We talked about this earlier I think storage has a lot to do with game balance.

[inland pelican]

That is garunteed gold every run...

[ancient briar]

yup.. those rare items up my arse 🤣 Tarkovers knows.

[inland pelican]

XD I promise give me that 4x4 and I'll have enough gold in one day to be set for a good while

[ancient briar]

Why people have so much problem with p2win?

[unborn raptor]

I think they should make weapons and armor less around the classes and more about specializations unlocked in class talent trees.

[gusty needle]

Hi! I am fan of d&d and dark and darker)
I think what developers will hear me, so can u please answer my questions about future plans of game plz?

1. will there be a separate pve mode with separate development of individual characters? without a narrowing zone, for those who don't like the battle royale and who just want a role play
2. are there plans to introduce dedicated servers that players can rent and introduce mods there?
3. will there be class and race archetypes like in d&d?

these ideas will greatly increase the interest of players in the game:)

addendum to paragraph 1: i mean in menu u can choose what do u want to play. Pve or pvp battleground. each mode will have its own character,stash, lvl, progress

[white cliff]

No, no, yes.

Though open source modding could fill both one and two.

I don’t think either of those are planned in any capacity.

[unborn raptor]

1 and 2 are likely no's but they don't know yet. 3 is a yes, they're just figuring out how to balance the races and have said as far as classes "if the fantasy trope exists it'll probably be a class."

They were asked about mod support and said to be determined.

[unborn raptor]

But they have said the launch version will likely have slower gameplay on modes outside of the high rollers.

[native cargo]

@dusty garden your suggestion about cleric being underpowered is false. They can indeed clap cheeks and 1v3

[unborn raptor]

Every class CAN 1v3 but it's a matter of how easy they can.

[safe wren]

Maybe if you play vs brain dead gamers

[glacial bridge]

well yeah, theyre everywhere

[white cliff]

Cleric is the best class.

[unborn raptor]

I played most of the classes to 20 this playtest and the weakest starters felt like wizard, rogue, and cleric in no particular order.

[safe wren]

But a 1v3 vs competent players. You lose everytime

All I'm saying is it's confirmation bias

[glacial bridge]

'competent' you can easily win a 1v3. high skilled then nah

[unborn raptor]

Rogue has the best glowup with gear though so just a better weapon or 2 and they're immediately better.

[white cliff]

Rogue is strong because of gear creep yeah.

[unborn raptor]

I just hope bards will be able to bonk skeletons with their lutes.

That's all I really care about.

Also, give Clerics the light spell. Make it a buff and make it emanate from yours or a teammates weapon.

[white cliff]

No please don’t give clerics the light spells I don’t want that.

😂

[dusty garden]

Any class indeed can 1vX

how ever once you have 1vXd on the other classes you will find the cleric struggles hard to do the same.

A build allowing the cleric to be built a more paladin style would be great

[unborn raptor]

Wizards get light orb. It's not really unprecedented.

[faint dirge]

no class can 1v3

not even 1v2

[woeful oriole]

@faint dirge tbh, every class can

With proper set up/positioning

[unborn raptor]

Every class can.

[faint dirge]

talking about same skill and same equip

[woeful oriole]

Even rogue in their dogshit glory, can 1v3 if they can isolate targets

Yeah, its a matter of isolating targets and quickly assassinating them for every class

[faint dirge]

yeah ofc everyone can 1v1000

but they have to be pepegas

[woeful oriole]

Some classes have it easier then others

[faint dirge]

and way worse

[unborn raptor]

There isn't an MMR system so skill/gear matchups are irrelevant.

[woeful oriole]

Like wizard can just fireball 3 times and kill everyone if they're grouped

[gray vessel]

If you wanna argue same skill, then why not dogshit 0.01% worst players? I'd say that completely disproves your statement lol

[woeful oriole]

Or play stealth dagger and 2 shot everyone

If they're alone

[unborn raptor]

I did just that with chain lightning

[dusty garden]

All about positioning and situation really

[faint dirge]

they die to pve first

[woeful oriole]

Oh right, that exists as well

[unborn raptor]

Book cast chain lighting back to back, barb came at me near dead so I staffed him in the head once. Easy 1v3.

[woeful oriole]

By the way, is my suggestion to rework rogue skills and allow them to use a crossbow really that bad >_>

Some rogue skills are literal dog

[unborn raptor]

Na, it's not but I think with the current pair of crossbows it wouldn't be good. A hand crossbow would be cool for that though.

[woeful oriole]

And the crossbow is just because it fits rogue/gives them ranged options that every class minus barb has

[faint dirge]

if everything is on even playground, same skill, stuff, classes, etc you cant win a 1v2

[woeful oriole]

Agreed

[inland pelican]

Rogues have throwing knives...

[woeful oriole]

I was thinking a new type of crossbow, palm crossbow

[white cliff]

Oh I knew your picture looked familiar. You gave a really vague suggestion.

[unborn raptor]

Wizards have throwing knives

[woeful oriole]

Bruv, if you try to tell me a consumable that does minimal damage with extreme ranged drop off is good

I swear

[inland pelican]

Wtf!? Do they? What are wizards doing with throwing knives!?

[white cliff]

It was basically “make changes” which isn’t really a suggestion specifically lol.

[woeful oriole]

Its a decent to below decent poking tool in close range

Not even medium range

[dusty garden]

lol I have and every one I play with has solod 3 man teams

[woeful oriole]

But that chip damage doesnt do much when a barb just goes rawe and smacks you in the head

[unborn raptor]

FYI throwing knives work with the bleed and weakness strike for rogues.

Low key broken

[terse pivot]

Decent amount of rogues were at the top of highroller leaderboard. If your asking for more buffs than it seems you are not having success with that class.

[woeful oriole]

Okay, that i did not know

Its not about whether or not good players can make rogue work because they find it fun

[dusty garden]

I have also had a Barbarian break a door in the right spot and proceed to 1v3 us

[woeful oriole]

There are some fundamentally broken things about rogue skill wise

Pickpocket for example

Trash

[unborn raptor]

Not the poison from what I've seen. But 100% the bleed and weakpoint strike

[woeful oriole]

Why waste a skill on that, when you can get damage skills and assassinate someone

Then loot their rotten corpse

Plus the pickpocketing is a random item

[dusty garden]

it's about trolling right

[woeful oriole]

And you have to use it whe you're behind someone without them knowing you're there

[unborn raptor]

Class fantasy

It's why rogues get picklock and detect trap

[woeful oriole]

If we're going to use class fantasy, rogues should be masters of stealth assassination

[terse pivot]

It was inspired off dungeons & dragons. With the data they have now and in the future they will improve on it.

[woeful oriole]

Yet wizards do it better with a flaming dagger

[unborn raptor]

It's why I think at the very least rogues should be able to use survival bows.

[woeful oriole]

And rogues often use bows and crossbows

So again, by that logic, those should be usable

Also does poison and bleed actually proc on throwing knives?

[dusty garden]

a tallent wpuld fix that

like spears on rangers

[woeful oriole]

Never noticed, not like they let us train in practice rooms on training dummies

[ancient briar]

I'd like to see a rouge based on assassin in Aion.

[unborn raptor]

Oh. I was never against rogues + crossbows only said they should add a hand crossbow for them.

[woeful oriole]

I agree

I think it fits since, i imagine a palm crossbow would be shorter range, one handed, faster to reload and leas damage

Which i think would work exceedingly well with rogue

[inland pelican]

I believe it does, and honestly if you give them crossbows, should be a hand crossbow that applies poison but has average dmg of a dagger

[unborn raptor]

Poisons don't seem to but I tested weakpoint and bleed on dummies with knives and they do work.

[woeful oriole]

How did you manage to get in the dummy room to test that

[unborn raptor]

Pregame

[woeful oriole]

Without lobby immediately imploding

Everytime i try its an instant queue

[unborn raptor]

Dedicated to testing shit

[dusty garden]

in highroller like a man

[unborn raptor]

BTW, barbs reckless strike doesn't work with throwing axes XD

[inland pelican]

Ah instaque, first world problems

❤️

[unborn raptor]

It DOES however benefit from their axe spec

[woeful oriole]

I feel like rogues should have maybe some advantages with throwing knives tbh

[white cliff]

High roller queue takes a few minutes to fill haha.

[unborn raptor]

+10 damage to throwing axes low key OP

[woeful oriole]

Like maybe a rogue specific stat helps it scale with them

Like how rogues open stuff faster

[dusty garden]

shhhhhh

let them learn the slow way ha ha

[woeful oriole]

Knive should fly for longer and more straight

[inland pelican]

Eh...

[woeful oriole]

Drop off is significant and almost immediate

Maybe you can call it a skill thing

[unborn raptor]

I do want to try the drunken cleric build next playtest. Didn't get to this one.

[woeful oriole]

But if you've ever thrown knives

They don't drop off that fast...

Especially if you give them a good throw

[unborn raptor]

It's for balance. Same reason arrows drop so heavily now. Playtest 2 had rangers beaming triple shots across big open rooms.

And why there's a "quiver" now.

[woeful oriole]

@white cliff yeh, didn't elaborate. Was a mistake. Several rogue skills are useless/feel like they should exist by default just for being rogue

[white cliff]

No hate, wish you elaborated more.

[woeful oriole]

Well... Rangers don't really suffer too much from drop off even now

[white cliff]

I like discussing the game but you don’t give me much to discuss!

[woeful oriole]

Maybe it was even more atrocious

[viral lodge]

Naked Rogue was a force to be wrekt with, now you're asking for that buff, its insaneeee

[woeful oriole]

But they can still shoot from across several hallways with extreme accuracy

@viral lodge either i'm the worst rogue in the world or we're playing two different games/versions

[unborn raptor]

Oh for sure. Rangers still a phenomenonal solo class right now and even better with groups. They're solid as is with hopefully some tweaks whe. They add their spells, which I remember them saying is coming.

[white cliff]

So here’s a fundamental difference.

[viral lodge]

Naked Rogue solo with a good weapon specifically

[white cliff]

I’m going to guess you play normals exclusively.

[woeful oriole]

That doesn't sound very naked to me...

I hear rogue is extremely strong with good gear

[white cliff]

Or for the most part?

[woeful oriole]

Yes

[white cliff]

Yeah, so the gear creep for rogue is insane.

[woeful oriole]

But it doesn't change the fact that several skills just make no sense

[unborn raptor]

70/30 normal/high roller

[white cliff]

They dominated the start of the play test.

[woeful oriole]

1st 2nd or 3rd?

[white cliff]

This play test.

Current.

[woeful oriole]

Can you explain

[white cliff]

Current data.

[unborn raptor]

Rogues start weak as hell but definitely scale the best. Especially with the "+ physical damage" items.

[woeful oriole]

I'm genuinely confused on how they could dominate with the starter gear

[white cliff]

So a rogue with no gear feels weak, a rogue that has +3 attributes and agi in a few gear slots starts to three shot people.

[unborn raptor]

I think they'll do away with raw + numbers and swap to percentages only for that.

[woeful oriole]

Hmm

[inland pelican]

Wizards seem to scale the best, but im sure rogues are up there

[woeful oriole]

Isnt thst every class though?

Like barbs with an axe one shots everyone

[copper crystal]

every class actually scales really well with items, hard to say who scales the most, possibly rogues or wizards maybe barbs

[unborn raptor]

Kind of? I had my barb hitting like 140 headshots on dummies.

[woeful oriole]

Warriors.. Are honestlt, they feel the most balanced

Haven't died to a warrior where i thought "that was bullshit."

[white cliff]

Rogues scale the fastest, and gain the most from gear.

[inland pelican]

Yeah... fighters don't scale like that from what I heard or experienced

[woeful oriole]

I have had a minor issue where i stabbed a warrior like 14 times and he refused to die

But i just assume he had some really good armor

[white cliff]

Fighter or barb?

[woeful oriole]

Fighter

[white cliff]

Gotcha.

[unborn raptor]

Barbs get nutty on HP if str stacking

[inland pelican]

They get plus percent armor passive and can stack plus health stats

[woeful oriole]

My barb is experience is them breaking through doors, screaming and then one shotting me with a 2h axe

[unborn raptor]

Yep

[woeful oriole]

They always break through doors...

[white cliff]

What class did you play?

Rogue?

I assume.

[woeful oriole]

Classes i played are wizard, rogue and ranger this playtest

[white cliff]

Those where my other guesses if you where squishy enough to get to shot. 😂

[unborn raptor]

I played them all. I think they're all fun to play.

Wizard only one i didn't get to 20 though, take that for what you will.

[woeful oriole]

Ranger is easy mode. Wizard has some bs stuff but they're also the most skill dependant. Rogue just felt.... Pretty bad until i learned that im not designed to one shot people

[copper crystal]

there's lots of talk about how wizard haste is OP and needs to be nerfed but the reality is that wizards shouldnt even have haste to begin with

[white cliff]

Not till you have gear.

[woeful oriole]

Yeah getting a rapier on rogue felt better or dual wielding

[unborn raptor]

Why?

[woeful oriole]

But one thing i knew for certain was

[ancient briar]

you're probably right

[woeful oriole]

Rogue got shafted HARD in terms of skills

[gusty needle]

Thanks

[white cliff]

We ran wizard from the start, helped us counter rogues.

[white cliff]

Your skill is to press M1

[copper crystal]

ive never played an RPG where a wizard has any sort of buff, particularly movement speed

[unborn raptor]

Rapier feels better 100% over dagger. Atleast IMO

[woeful oriole]

Iike the other two had skills that were only beneificial, rogues on the other hand had useless skills

Or skills that were required to make other stuff work

[inland pelican]

I have heard from several that wizards are just better rogues with invisible haste, then fireball to the head

[white cliff]

Wizards can cast haste in DnD.

[ancient briar]

If you think about.. without invisibility and haste I'd consider taking Lightning strike

[unborn raptor]

I even typically use rapier over arming sword on ranger of the damage is good enough.

[woeful oriole]

Like poison feels lije a 100% must have

[white cliff]

Third level spell slot.

They’re basing it off of 3e.

[copper crystal]

@unborn raptor wizards are masters of elements and damage, not buffs, especially a buff that is considered to be one of the best if not the best

[woeful oriole]

Hide is fairly... Its not useless but it feels extremelt shitty unless you have the skill where you can move in it

Then theres wizard who can spam cast it, gains movement speed in it and can sprint during it

[night bloom]

Every edition of dnd says otherwise

[white cliff]

Speed in this game is king.

[white cliff]

Right?

[woeful oriole]

It doesnt really matter if its 4 seconds vs 30, 30 seconds of standing in one spot is pointless

Unless you're memeing/hiding from death

You can try to set up an ambush but like...

[unborn raptor]

You might not like it but wizards are certainly the casters of haste and invis.

[white cliff]

Wait wait are you talking about the stealth?

[woeful oriole]

You have to be in a spot where they're goinf to walk by

[white cliff]

You’re saying the stealth is bad?

[woeful oriole]

No

[ancient briar]

yes, they are wizardo-rouges. You can build them as stabbers with invis, and haste.

[unborn raptor]

Hes saying stealth without the movement perk is.

[woeful oriole]

Im saying rogue vs wizards feel bad

[white cliff]

Oh absolutely haha.

[woeful oriole]

And yes that to

The faxt that the movement skill is basically required to make hide good

Is shit

[unborn raptor]

Yeah, dagger wizard is certainly OP for pvp

[ancient briar]

I am also sure those two spells - haste and invis will be nerfed if not next playtest then another or at release. This has been suggested multiple times with high favor of public and some of the top wizards say the same.

[woeful oriole]

While wizards can sprint with flaming daggers and 2 shank everyone

[inland pelican]

Anywho before I hop back to work, let me bump my monk suggestion for devs to hopefully look at ❤️ lol

#d-and-d-suggestions message

[white cliff]

Down boop.

[woeful oriole]

Theres a few key things i would like to see reworked for rogue

[faint dirge]

wizrad is so bullshit

possible to hit-scan onhit other squishy classes AND being insane utility

[copper crystal]

@night bloom well then dnd is trash, ive played basically every rpg and never seen a wizard that can buff, games like EQ, daoc, final fantasy etc, wizards dont and should not have a spell like that period, wizards should be relegated to magical artillery and aoe

[white cliff]

This is probably the worst take I’ve ever seen.

[copper crystal]

@white cliff then why do 99% of rpg's agree with me?

like what

[inland pelican]

Wizards are the magical Swiss army knife

[woeful oriole]

Do something with pickpocket, i dont know what

Make it so movement in stealth is a default of stealth, not a skill

Do something with disarm traps... Its actually useless once you know the map.

Invisible belt is... I can see what they're going for but... Why... If you're gonna hide in a dark corner to ambush, you may as well just use hide and stand still for 30 seconds

Give rogue a palm crossbow at least, if not other crossbows/short bows

The other skills are uh, pretty worthy of skill slots

[white cliff]

I’m not engaging with this, it’s either bait or you’re not going to be able to hold a conversation.

[night bloom]

I don't think you should be commentating criticism on a game inspired about dungeons and dragons when you yourself have never played dungeons and dragons to begin with. You seem arrogant and ignorant. Please educate yourself on the source material before commenting on how the game "should be"

[ancient briar]

Well, other games may not gave the haste for wizards because they gave them shield spells? Ex: Black Desert, Aion.

Tibia on other hand gave both, speed and magic shield.

[white cliff]

How do I like a comment more than once?

[woeful oriole]

Dot poison, backstab damage, silent footsteps is useful but honestly should feel like a default skill just for being rogue tbh but thats debatable because it is a pretty huge advantage

Uh, lockpicks are situational but.. Still moderately worthy of a skill slot

Same for ambush, situational but potentially worthy

With how much invis pots exist

[white cliff]

Rogue is worth picking for lock picks alone.

[woeful oriole]

Can get big value out of it

Im saying in terms of skill slots

Whether or not the skills should be just a default festure of rogue or if they're too strong, so they need to be a skill

[white cliff]

You swap it out when you pvp though.

[copper crystal]

you guys are idiots if you think a class that has the highest damage potential from a distance and massive aoe damage should also be able to go invis and have the most broken buff in the entire game

[white cliff]

All I hear is rararara.

[woeful oriole]

Like hide with movement should just be a default of hide

[white cliff]

Nobody said anything about wizard shut up.

[woeful oriole]

It shouldn't be a separate skill

[copper crystal]

@white cliff all I hear is "im a complete retard and can't defend a completely moronic idea"

[white cliff]

Anyways, I’m not sure if you can just start bundling skills to a class inherently.

[white cliff]

Rararara. Keep typing moron.

[unborn raptor]

Welcome to DnD... go read about Cloud Kill and Greater Invisibility

[woeful oriole]

Well true but i dont think the hide one is outrageous @white cliff

It feels like what hide should be by default

[white cliff]

I mean I’d like the 20% damage to monsters to be tied to my kit.

[woeful oriole]

Because just standing still for 30 seconds is... Honestly useless outside of trying to sneak attack a single person/avoid a group

[copper crystal]

there's a reason wizards topped literally every leaderboard just about during this last playtest, surely theyre balanced, fucking idiots lol

[inland pelican]

The thing with wizards is a balance issue, scaling is heavy for their dmg, the utility isn't the real problem

[unborn raptor]

When I played rogue I didn't even use Hide. I did burst rogue. Weakpoint and bleed and just do big burst swings.

[white cliff]

Nobody said anything about wizard balance. And rogue was dominating for about 3/4ths the play test.

Will you shut the fuck up now?

Good god.

[woeful oriole]

Because hide forces you to waste one or potentially two skill slots to make it useful o.e @unborn raptor

Burst rogue is fun though

[unborn raptor]

Definitely

[woeful oriole]

Just charge at them and load up the shanks

[faint dirge]

they shouldnt be able to provide that huge damage potential AND utility they should choose between before game

[copper crystal]

@inland pelican are you on crack? their utlity is literally the reason theyre so broken, are you even watching videos of top tier wizards? its haste and invis getting them like 90% of their kills and 3v1's

[white cliff]

Yeah but being able to pick off somebody and make it a 2v3 is super important.

Though you can do the same on wizard.

If we’re actually going to talk about wiz balance.

Which wasn’t what we where talking about but oh fucking well.

[unborn raptor]

"Setting up for a fight makes you successful." SAY IT ISNT SO

[ancient briar]

Chill dude. Wizards will get nerfed so you can calm down. No need for further conversation.

[inland pelican]

I'm listening to the people talking about it, if wizards don't have one shot power, the invisible haste isn't the end all be all

[white cliff]

Just increase the spell costs.

You already can’t ingnite the missiles anymore.

[inland pelican]

Fair enough jk!

Kidd?

[white cliff]

Kidding.

[night bloom]

<@&988703997378584596> can we get dome moderation in here from this dude slinging insults at everyone and not contributing a single piece of constructive feedback? Guy is just spewing toxicity at this point

[inland pelican]

XD

[white cliff]

Oh great now I gotta watch my mouth! Don’t call the police man.

[copper crystal]

its not even the wizards damage spells, it's literally their melee doing most of the damage, they are better rogues than actual rogues

[woeful oriole]

I do think wizards need some nerfs but i also feel like they shouldn't be heavy handed. Like the spellcasting is fine. It's mainly invis and haste

One of my favorite targets as rogue is ironically wizards

[copper crystal]

@night bloom i did offer constructive feedback but retards like you just go "well it's in dnd so it should stay!"

[woeful oriole]

Because you can stab them out of stealth if you stay on their heels like a rabbid dog

[white cliff]

Your argument was my rpg games don’t have this you’re all dumb!

[copper crystal]

and "durrr that's the dumbest take ever" durrr

[white cliff]

Absolute moron.

[ancient briar]

I think their scaling also needs nerf. Magic missiles definitely needs some adjustment. I've seen 3 little balls dropping a tank. Fireball needs nerf, haste needs Nerf, invis must be removed and lightning strike needs buff.

[shrewd lantern]

give solo q delete wizards !

[woeful oriole]

Hmm, magic missile is an interesting one

[white cliff]

It looked like a bait post it was so dumb.

[copper crystal]

@white cliff i said almost every single rpg is what im suggesting and for a reason you fucking imbecile

[unborn raptor]

You didn't offer criticism at all. You just kicked your feet and called names.

[woeful oriole]

I thought it was balanced with how easy it is to dodge/interrupt but others may not feel that way

[inland pelican]

We are thinking of the vision of the devs as we can see it and they clearly want it in there, we are thinking of how to keep it balanced while keeping the vision

[woeful oriole]

It's certainly cancer in a 3v3 setting

[white cliff]

Rararara, keep typing the same shit.

[woeful oriole]

But since i play rogue/wizard/ranger

I usually target the wizard

[white cliff]

Lukewarm iq.

[copper crystal]

@white cliff there has to be balance, you cant give a class the highest fucking damage and best aoe capabilities and also the best utility you dumb fuck

[woeful oriole]

I want none of their shenanigans

[copper crystal]

the fact that this needs explaining just goes to show how fucking dumb and cluess you are

[inland pelican]

Always geek the mage :p

[faint dirge]

i totally agree with you but your being rude and a bitch urself

[white cliff]

Never said that was the case, your argument was my rpg game doesn’t have that, DnD is dumb! Herrrrr, my two brain cells don’t work together.

[unborn raptor]

Go touch grass.

[woeful oriole]

Can we just have a civil conversation @white cliff @copper crystal

Not sure what happened

But no need for any of this

[white cliff]

I do, the majority of the time. This guy just dragged it out of me.

[native cargo]

A paladin style build already exist yes you’re right about it struggling more then other classes but once you acquire the right gear set he’ll be a beast not even a default cleric vs a default fighter will win if they know what they’re doing

[woeful oriole]

We all agree that haste and invis on wizard is a bit busted given their skill set

[white cliff]

Being an absolute cunt for no reason.

[shrewd lantern]

to make all happy we need delete wizzards from the game and give solo q

[woeful oriole]

But no one needs to be mean

[white cliff]

I mean they wanted solo queue so much they actually stopped people from talking about it on the Reddit.

[inland pelican]

XD don't forget the pve map!

[unborn raptor]

Just be a fighter and block their magic with a shield.

[woeful oriole]

To be fair, i just made a suggestion for solo lobbies...

[white cliff]

Because the devs where actually so against it and explained it several times. 😂

[woeful oriole]

Sometimes its hard for me to find a group x_c

[white cliff]

Yeah yeah we know. It’s just that it’s been explained why that doesn’t work.

[woeful oriole]

So its usuallt me trying to kill three people as a rogue/wizard/ranger

What were the reasons

I was unaware of this

[random tapir]

IM literally terrified that the suggestions from players murder the game how it is

[ancient briar]

#d-and-d-suggestions message

Vote

[copper crystal]

@white cliff lol for no reason, i made an argument and your reply was "that's the dumbest take i ever heard" but couldnt actually provide any reasoning behind it, you're a dumb fuck

[minor venture]

just get friends problem fixed

[inland pelican]

Agreed pikz

[white cliff]

It took you that long to type that? Jesus nobody wants you here just leave.

[night bloom]

People are spewing and crying and slinging insults while they make suggestions. I wouldn't be too worried.

[terse pivot]

@random tapir thats how wizard ended up where it is now off bad players saying he needed buffs. But then you look at kenkenobi last playtest and he played extremely well.

[copper crystal]

@white cliff when my argument is flawlessly logical, wizards cant be the masters of multiple things, no class should be

[white cliff]

^

[woeful oriole]

Rogues should be the master of one shots... But it seems every class is capable of that .-.

[unborn raptor]

Never get high on your own supply

[random tapir]

every class is gear dependant

[woeful oriole]

Yes im rogue biased, i was crying in a corner alone trying to survive groups of three QQ

[inland pelican]

Every class but fighters :p

Lol

[woeful oriole]

Okay true, fighter is all rounder balanced

Honestly, best class to fight against because it's skill based

[shrewd lantern]

if u dont know all classes will have 4 -6 skils like mages or game will die in 1 month if classes will have only 2 skills its super boring

[random tapir]

EVERYTHING felt skill based regardless of class

[inland pelican]

I like fighter, just want slightly bigger shields or a short stiffness on successful block

[white cliff]

Christ anyways, rogues.

[woeful oriole]

@random tapir imma be honest, wasn't really feeling the skill when that barb split my head open in one swing from full hp with an axe

[white cliff]

We where talking about rogues.

[woeful oriole]

I was feeling the comedy

And the fun of the situation

But not the skill, i didn't feel outplayed

[unborn raptor]

Did someone say barbarians?

[inland pelican]

XD

[woeful oriole]

If a fighter kills me, i feel like i messed up or he outplayed me

[copper crystal]

@shrewd lantern it's not about classes being able to multiple things its that they shouldnt be jack of all trades and also masters of several, sort of like how bards in EQ ended up being

[woeful oriole]

If i kill a ranger or mage, i feel i outplayed him

[random tapir]

and the fact that they were the slowest in the game with the lowest armor rating?

[woeful oriole]

But when i go against a barb, honestly, feels like i should just run since he's slow

And just avoid fighting him altogether

Unless i have some good gear

[random tapir]

thats the point

[white cliff]

Yep, like I said before speed is king.

[unborn raptor]

But they're not any of that. Being able to cast a few spells doesn't make them "masters of all." They barely even have a fraction of the spells they could have that would make them even more OP.

[random tapir]

a lot of peoiple miss the fact that the point of the game is HARDCORE if you have trouble with something LITERALLY BUG OFF

[night bloom]

It's strange to make barbs as slow as they were but I guess if they played exactly from the inspirational material barbs would be the end all be all class no matter what. Imagine if barbs had the speed they have in dnd. It's probably why monks will be the hardest to balance if they ever make them

[woeful oriole]

Sometimes, when you see a barb, you have to bust out the secret necromancer class. Aggro a bunch of skeletons and wraiths, run to the barb, then use hide

[white cliff]

My guy it’s not in ESO, so it’s not really fantasy.

[terse pivot]

Door, you may need to start playing more classes to understand class balance. Your getting tagged by a class that you can ASD/crouch/camera turn to avoid his swings unless he's playing 1h and if he's playing 1h, he is not 1 shotting

[unborn raptor]

Displacement, mirror image, stoneskin, cloud kill, power word death....

[woeful oriole]

And then cry when he kills all of them with one swing

[random tapir]

No no more classes races are a dumb thing to add as well

[woeful oriole]

@terse pivot true

[white cliff]

They said they’re basing it of 3e. Which I’m all for.

[woeful oriole]

Should play barb and fighter more

[white cliff]

Playing more than one class? Yucky!

[woeful oriole]

To understand how im getting my head lobbed off in a single swing

[random tapir]

Everything about the game is perfect as is

[unborn raptor]

Only seen 5e and 2e homebrew. Not super familiar with 3e

[woeful oriole]

No ew no

[terse pivot]

If you played a barb, you would complain about clerics/fighters shield blocking all your hits and hitting you without u being able to do anything

[woeful oriole]

Game has balance issues

With wizard spells and useless rogue skills

[white cliff]

Old school DnD is pretty cool.

Rogue is strong big homie.

[inland pelican]

Idk pikz, the game needs balance, and the first floor, I don't need more classes but my buddy craves a monk class lol

[woeful oriole]

For all of you who disagree, you wish to tell me pickpocket is a useful skill?

[night bloom]

Unironically this on class balance. But Bard is coming no matter what. So we can expect druid paladin Monk in the future. Maybe even warlock depending

[white cliff]

I’m telling ya.

[unborn raptor]

I mostly watch campaigns, which can be really entertaining.

[woeful oriole]

Or trap detection

[copper crystal]

rangers are broken too, traps having to be manually disabled is unbelievably dumb and infinite ammo also very questionable

[inland pelican]

This why I wrote up monk class suggestions

[woeful oriole]

Or invisible belt

[white cliff]

We’re not saying some of the skills are niche. You know cleric has a skill that prevents you from getting drunk?

[night bloom]

Maybe even sorcerer

[random tapir]

If crybabies had their way this is gonna be another fortnite

[white cliff]

Not running that all the time.

[woeful oriole]

Im aware of the drunken cleric playstyle

I find it hilarious

[white cliff]

It is very funny.

Not the point I’m making though.

Not all the perks are super useful.

[night bloom]

It's not a suggestion it's what the devs said is coming

[woeful oriole]

Hey, that skill has a use... In making your cleric a fucking man

[unborn raptor]

What are some 3e classes you'd expect?

[woeful oriole]

Yeah but like

[white cliff]

Bard and Druid I know are all in the works.

[woeful oriole]

You cannot defend pickpocket o.e

[random tapir]

im so terrified this play through was wonderful and i see nothing wrong with the game at all

[terse pivot]

They are adding all dungeon and dragon classes. Not all of them. most oof them

[woeful oriole]

Unless you're trying to troll people as they open portals

[copper crystal]

@random tapir then you're delusional

[white cliff]

The ones from third edition.

[unborn raptor]

They said when talking with Pestily "if the fantasy trope exists we'll probably have the class"

[woeful oriole]

And hope to steal something extremelt valuable by accident

[white cliff]

Again with the insults.

[copper crystal]

@random tapir or just didnt play enough

[white cliff]

Can you honestly shut the fuck up for five minutes?

[random tapir]

i think the game feels perfectly complete and cannot wait another second for relaease

[copper crystal]

@white cliff well when people make unbelievably idiotic comments im gonna call them out on it

[dire needle]

they could definitely launch it in its initial state and build onto it but they arent so it is what it is

[random tapir]

80 hours

[minor venture]

every class will have pros and cons which will always make one class better than another if you compare it in many ways. each class in my current opinion has a place in the game depending how you and your group want to play it

[night bloom]

What we should worry about is multi classing and paragon classes ruining the game

[copper crystal]

@random tapir ok so then delusional

[woeful oriole]

@terse pivot hmm, perhaps, i did not play barb or fighter. Only rogue, ranger, mage and cleric

[white cliff]

This is legitimate irony considering what you typed not 10 minutes ago.

[random tapir]

pro gamer why?

[white cliff]

Seriously just leave.

[copper crystal]

@random tapir cuz there's A LOT of things wrong with the game

[unborn raptor]

I honestly don't see multiclass being a thing TBH

[inland pelican]

Look pikz I get what you are saying I hope but it is not balanced, floor one isn't out yet and they DO plan to release several more classes and maps... that said I greatly enjoyed this last Playtex, they have gold here

[dire needle]

i think the game already has a experience you cant get from any other game and its enjoyability is far beyond other games currently

it will be the most popular game out when it comes out that is for sure

[woeful oriole]

The game is great guys, we all agree on that

[random tapir]

like?

[woeful oriole]

But there are some balance issues

You cannot deny this

[unborn raptor]

I could be wrong but multiclass just doesn't fit the game that well.

[woeful oriole]

If you do, then it's a bias

[copper crystal]

@white cliff ya me saying wizards shouldnt be the best at multiple aspects of the game is really dumb dude, get a fucking clue you inbred hillybilly, they topped every fucking chart

[random tapir]

WHAT ARE THE BALANCE ISSUES

[white cliff]

Something something haste in my fantasy games. 😂

[woeful oriole]

Just like im bias toward rogue

[terse pivot]

We need more wizard nerf suggestions and ideas to properly balance the class. Because we can't even fucking test/practice B3 bosses without running into a wizard that has the best PVP support tools in the game.

[dire needle]

wiz shouldnt be able to haste themselves

[white cliff]

Your insults are as dry as your wit. Yawn.

[woeful oriole]

@random tapir look at wizard as the elephant in the room

[copper crystal]

Shwizzy gets it

[woeful oriole]

The most obvious glaring one

[dire needle]

if wiz cant haste themselves, they are balanced

[copper crystal]

hey a non retard has arrived

[random tapir]

WIZARD IS BALANCED IM SORRY YOU GOT STUCK IN A HALLWAY

[dire needle]

currently its hard to kill a wiz cause they can easily haste, invis then either enchant and kill you with melee or doubl zap or fireball

[woeful oriole]

High skill ceiling sure, but wizards are oppressive if they master the class

[terse pivot]

They want us to fucking test the game not just the PVP but PVE, but we are barricaded by gandalf

[woeful oriole]

Its mainlt haste and an invisibility that speeds you up

[white cliff]

That’s not initially what you said, you butted into a conversation you weren’t apart of started talking about wizards and how it’s not in rpg games for them to have haste. When the fucking game is based on dnd where wizards have haste.

[woeful oriole]

Like you're sonic

[white cliff]

Literal bait.

[unborn raptor]

So are rangers, barbs, fighters, rogues....

[copper crystal]

@pikz you need to go watch some top tier wizard players and get a fucking clue bro

[ancient briar]

You shall not pass. And go back to the lobby.

[woeful oriole]

@copper crystal no need to be mean man

[random tapir]

IVE PLAYED PLENTY OF HIGH ROLLERS WHERE WEVE SAID OH HEY THERES A WIZARD DO WE WANT TO COMMIT IN THIS TIGHT AREA? "NO"

[unborn raptor]

Every class is "oppressive" if the person playing it is skilled.

[inland pelican]

Wizard has several one shot spells with tons of utility, rangers from what I heard are too strong in trios from what I heard, rogues are too fast still also from hearsay... only two classes I have heard no complaint about are fighter and cleric

[woeful oriole]

We can all have a nice conversation

[copper crystal]

@pikz ya and then good wizards would just haste, invis, flank you and kill you with melee rofl

[random tapir]

hey pro gamers

[inland pelican]

I think it's easy fixes

[terse pivot]

@random tapir Positioning is one thing, take out that "tight area" the problem still remains.

[woeful oriole]

@unborn raptor that is a good point, but as the others have said, wizard is essentially a master at everything

[inland pelican]

I DONT think they need heavy nerfs

[random tapir]

balance issues ruin the playstyle of everyone

no nerfs

wizrd is balanced

[terse pivot]

Someone take a picture of this dudes quote

[woeful oriole]

Range, stealth, burst, movement, they excel at all of them

[unborn raptor]

Fighters and Clerics are well balanced for group play. Fighters CAN do solo but not as well as wizard or ranger.

[random tapir]

i didnt even play wizrd to know its balanced

[woeful oriole]

I dont think they need heavy nerfs either @inland pelican

[ancient briar]

I'm surprised that you really think wizard is balanced. Those one taps with fireballs were fun though.

[woeful oriole]

Just a few tweaks

[inland pelican]

What is needed is gear fixes from what I gathered, turning flat Stat buffs dmg etc and turn them to %

[terse pivot]

Wizard only 1 shots negative magic resistance, thats not even the problem guys

[woeful oriole]

Wizards should have high damage because spells take time to cast

[random tapir]

yall are going to be the downfall of what made this game great

[wide sage]

Haste and invisibility can be used at the same time, yes? I think an easy start would be to be limited to one at a time and see how much of an impact that has.

[unborn raptor]

Never been 1 tapped by a wizard. Shields can soak fireball and chain lightning.

[copper crystal]

@pikz again, idiot, they topped every chart statistic, why do you think that is? they aren't balanced

[white cliff]

“dnd is trash, ive played basically every rpg and never seen a wizard that can buff, games like EQ, daoc, final fantasy etc, wizards dont and should not have a spell like that period, wizards should be relegated to magical artillery and aoe”

That’s my new copy pasta.

[woeful oriole]

But a common trope of wizards is that they lack in speed unless they're a warrior type of wizard

I feel like, a spellblade warlock would fit that style better

[random tapir]

link me

[woeful oriole]

A traditional wizard should be slinging fireballs and nuking the battlefield

[ancient briar]

Not sure how much health my enemies had but.. one fireball was enough to make them ran away and die from my burn.

[terse pivot]

The only reason why wizard wasn't tuned/nerf during this playtest was because they are gathering the data to implement more precise changes like how Rangers was not touched 2nd playtest.

[woeful oriole]

Ew

Ranger

[unborn raptor]

They were weak then. Base fireball is 30, 56 if headshot.

[woeful oriole]

I feel like the devs are super biased toward them

[random tapir]

the wizard wasnt THAT BAD!

[unborn raptor]

More with extra stats obviously

[terse pivot]

Yes bro if u didnt know rangers had 70+ damage longbows and unlimited ammo back then

they can shoot a 2H axe across the map into your head and kill you

[random tapir]

chain lightning was huge but thats not bad

[woeful oriole]

High accurate unlimited damage range, free weaker campfire heal, healing biscuits, traps....

[wide sage]

A traditional wizard should be bending the fabric of reality to make brooms carry water, stars fall from the sky, and to challenge god himself.

[ancient briar]

I think wizard scales very well. And I also thought that direct hit+splash damage is applied. No?

[unborn raptor]

It's funny. You can 100% block chain lightning and nullify it with a starter fighter shield.

[white cliff]

Have you played wheel? If three rangers get on the tower you’re screwed.

[unborn raptor]

Direct to 1, splash to others.

If hit

[woeful oriole]

@wide sage you're not wrong but.. A traditional wizard gets merc'd by an assassin/dies in close combat

[random tapir]

Devs if you are seeing this i hope you dont let a bunch of butt hurt individuals ruin your game please and thank you i appreciated my play test and everything felt perfect

[woeful oriole]

Because they have to chant spells

[inland pelican]

Weakness of wizards in practice in other games and the core reference of d&d is super squishy and the urge to use all your spells at once. That is mostly sustained, if the wizard isn't smart then they get nuked... I have seen that first hand

[woeful oriole]

Yes

[terse pivot]

@random tapir You are right and wrong, but at the same time you are insulting the wrong people.

[unborn raptor]

Literally just juke and rush them. Fireballs move slow.

[woeful oriole]

Pikz is... Yeah about half and half

The game is great, we all love it, but its not perfectly balanced, however based on what i hear, it's improved significantlt

[wide sage]

My point is theres athousand different versions of "traditional wizard" even in dnd. One big wizard trope is magical utility, but that gets overlooked by pop culture because Muh Firbull

[woeful oriole]

I fear the idea that rangers had infinite ammo and even MORE accurate arrows then they do now

The best feeling in the world is dodging all a rangers arrows and stabbing him while he reloads

[copper crystal]

"durrr im a moron that thinks wizards should have the best damage in the game, best aoe in the game, the best utility in the game, fuck it, they should have most health too, best defensive spells, i mean shit lets just give this class literally everything, but we'll balance this by making them unable to open doors quickly this is fine and balanced because dnd says so!" - Jkidd the dumbass

thats my new copy pasta

[terse pivot]

@copper crystal barbs have most health

[random tapir]

i have zero control in what this game becomes and im absolutely terrified what happens reading suggestions and this chat so uhh we'll see i guess 🤮

[white cliff]

Jesus you type so incredibly slow.

[inland pelican]

That's the thing, an easy solution to any wizard overpoweredness would be lower number of casts by one, see how it goes, raise the value of conserving spell slots that makes the utility less a panic because it comes at a cost

[copper crystal]

@terse pivot im being sarcastic

[white cliff]

Slow arthritic fingers.

[copper crystal]

@white cliff ya 120wpm, super slow

[woeful oriole]

@random tapir a better game for a majority of the playerbase hopefully

[white cliff]

It took you five minutes to type that. 😂

[copper crystal]

i was afk retard?

use your brain?

plz

jesus christ

[terse pivot]

You know how they nerfed clerics by taking rez out of their starter kit. Lets take away either haste/invis off their starting kit call it even

[wide sage]

Thats doing a diservice to the devs and their ability to just say no.

[random tapir]

IM TERRIFIED

[white cliff]

<@&988703997378584596> Can y’all time this guy out or something, I’ll take one too I probably deserve it but goddamn he’s obnoxious.

[inland pelican]

Rez can be on cleric starter kit, rez and lesser heal

[woeful oriole]

You know, this is a bit of a random suggestion but... I think they should buff mimic enemies to be any chest thats not a key chest

Would make things funny

[white cliff]

Old. Arthritic. Fingers.

[random tapir]

If you think anything was over powered you just got outplayed tbh 😄

[terse pivot]

Exactly, lets make it so wizard has to sacrifice as well. fair? or not fair

[inland pelican]

Agreed door xD mimic power would be funny

[copper crystal]

@pikz you're the kind of idiot that thinks if a champ in like league of legends or something has a 20% higher winrate than everything else that it's because people aren't playing around it correctly

or you know, the more logical reason, it's fucking broken

[wide sage]

Mimics arent even hard to fight. I killed one with a torch while trapped in a pocket room. So letting them be ANY chest would be great imo

[inland pelican]

The issue is will the sacrifice be too big at first? Maybe instead lower the number of invisible or haste spells that can be cast is lowered by one, keep the thematic weakness of wizards

[terse pivot]

We need more suggestions to nerf wizard guys. Please input your thoughts/ideas on what you can make it more balanced but at the same time keep it fun. I also want to play wizard but not when I know its gonna get hard nerfed. I'll play after it gets nerfed.

[random tapir]

negative nelly

[inland pelican]

Keep it balanced and fun, agreed

[terse pivot]

we want fun thats the goal, we want diversity, If i get 2 shot 1 shot I want to understand what I did wrong and what I couldve done. Not accept that I couldn't do anything, or think of anything.

[copper crystal]

@terse pivot my suggestion was to completely remove haste from their kit, would help for sure, they shouldnt even have a spell like haste to begin with

[woeful oriole]

I think there should be diversity to builds

[random tapir]

THE PLAYS MADE FROM THE BUFFS GIVEN AND SET UP!!!!!!!!!

[wide sage]

I mean, devs have already said they arent prioritizing balance right now because they are still developing systems that could shake up everything

[woeful oriole]

For examplez a rapier dualing rogue, a dual wield rogue, a burst assassin rogue, a fire mage, ice mage, lightning mage,

Sword and board fighter, dual wield fighter etc.

Make skills to help them specialize in those playstyles

[wide sage]

So i wouldnt worry too much about balancing wizards

[inland pelican]

I disagree, I think they should have to really think hard about when and where to use it though, which is why I suggest lowering their casts of it by 1

[inland pelican]

Fair enough if that's what devs said

[unborn raptor]

That would be the goal more for talent trees

[wide sage]

Removing haste is a lazy knee jerk solution. Small adjustments can go a long way

[inland pelican]

Agreed crypt

[copper crystal]

removing haste makes the most sense, wizards are suppose to be high damage aoe and long range artillery, not a buff class

[final elm]

who said that

[inland pelican]

Says who @copper crystal ?

[unborn raptor]

Again, this game is DnD based wizards aren't wow mages

[copper crystal]

haste should be more of either a cleric thing or a bard thing or enchanter

[terse pivot]

@inland pelican @copper crystal Wizard is in a position where it's almost impossible to balance without making it a class not worth playing. Take away any of the tools, it will be deemed unplayable. I suggest they balance the class letting it keep its tools but reduce the value of the tools to match equally vs the other classes.

[inland pelican]

Not the dev's reference material

[ancient briar]

They might give us options to protect against magical damage, so who knows maybe that nerf won't be needed after all

[copper crystal]

lost ark probably has the best iteration of a wizard of any game ive ever played

[final elm]

if melee got an option for some sort of spellcast cancel shout skill on a cooldown, that alone would probably be enough to help utilize corners against a wizard. granted, i feel like most of the classes are pretty balanced so far.

[terse pivot]

@ancient briar thats been suggested before and it's actually a good suggestion.

[inland pelican]

No no I mostly agree, I simply think lowering the value comes in lowering the max number of casts of said tools by one

[wide sage]

Once again, thats a disservice to the devs and any creative problem solving process. Just cause you dont see it doesnt mean its not possible

[copper crystal]

massive damage potential from long range, massive aoe, but squishy and moderate mobility and low utility

[unborn raptor]

Again. This is based on DnD, not lost ark or FF14...

[terse pivot]

@wide sage Yes but if you seen the wizard gameplay its extremely fun, and it's when they use all their tools. Im just saying it's gonna be difficult to balance the class without removing the fun it provides.

[tribal cradle]

This convo happens all the time. The issue is not the class it’s the magic damage stacking on gear.

[unborn raptor]

Your conception of "wizard" isn't what this wizard will be.

[strong marlin]

As a wizard, yes I made some insane plays, but I still get one shot by every barb that hits me.

[copper crystal]

it's not based solely on DnD, the devs have said themselves that their inspiration comes from all sorts of games like Ultima Online, Everquest, DAoC etc

[inland pelican]

Aye mayor/swen

[final elm]

Will gets out of control pretty fast, with just a decent amount of it I was 1 tapping Rangers, Rogues and Wizards with Judgement pretty often

[inland pelican]

The traditional weakness of wizards is squishy and the urge to waste your spell slots, I think the game should keep those and balance around them

[strong marlin]

Will is nothing compared to +true magic making burn tick for 6+ points for 3.5 seconds, a base Missile does 12 per +6 TMD is an easy 50% base I had my arcane Missile up to 56 per hit on the dummy stacking TMD

[misty walrus]

I got killed with 1k worth of gear by 2 fireballs from wizard in last playtest as a fighter xd

[inland pelican]

All of what I said said yes gear is an issue that effects all classes and should be addressed, it's behind the barb and rogue complaints as well

[copper crystal]

ya there's definitely issues with certain gear attributes

[strong marlin]

Burn gets real and you don't even have to direct hit

[terse pivot]

+3 all attributes is the most valued stat in the game 6 atk / 6 hp / 6 movespeed / 3 spellpower

its basically 4 substats fused into 1

[wide sage]

Brb once again to shower

[misty walrus]

tru. -wizards are like machine gun in medieval. if im assembling a pvp oriented team ima tell a wizard to suppress and rouge to flank xd

[strong marlin]

@terse pivot agreed It is the plus all skills of the game, but not broken

[inland pelican]

I have a problem... I spent more time on this while at work then working xD

[terse pivot]

@strong marlin its a good substat, it increases value on items.

U can even call it the god substat

[strong marlin]

Player Housing, I just want to rent a room in the tavern

[copper crystal]

@terse pivot i dont think it's that hard to balance them, remove haste entirely, if they become too weak because of that then slightly up their damage or give them more utility from their damaging spells, like their ice spells should slow and/or pierce targets

lots of things that can be done

[inland pelican]

Non-dungeon stuff? Player housing is meh, but a small town lobby where you can visit the tavern talk with friends and sell to merchants? Super win lol but that's lowest priority

[strong marlin]

Honestly I think the wizard is find, if anything we need +3 to 5 more resourcefulness

Same for the cleric

They are just to slow, they can't even loot chest, before the Ranger opens 5

[terse pivot]

@copper crystal but haste is actually such a fun spell to use for outplay and intense fights. I don't abuse Wizard but like haste feels good dude. Have you ever been hasted

[copper crystal]

non dungeon stuff a bit of a pipe dream for now, the text based UI works well for now

[terse pivot]

Thats why im saying how do u balance wizard without removing the fun

[inland pelican]

Oh for sure! It's a last minute polish, but a nice one

[strong marlin]

Wizard is fine.

[cerulean pollen]

people are looking at it all wrong. each class has strengths/weaknesses, wizard seems OP but thats because its a PvP-focused class. you ever tried to solo running wiz and clearing trash? hope you enjoy wasting all your charges, meditating every 3 mobs, or taking 2x long as even a cleric does

[copper crystal]

@terse pivot ya haste is good but it belongs to another class, should be more of a bard thing or future classes like enchanter/druid

[red jewel]

Wizard would do perfectly fine without ignite, haste, or invis. It would still be the only class with massive damage AOEs that hit multiple targets/around corners.

[inland pelican]

I told you, deal with stats on gear, lower the number of casts for key spells by one for the dungeon, feel from there, play on traditional weaknesses

[red jewel]

Wizard has the fastest clears with ignite, dunno what you mean. It's a 1 cost spell and outdamages felling axe barbs. Recovers all charges in one meditate

[cerulean pollen]

Wizard IS perfectly fine. Next play test go play solo and see how you fare if it's OP. There's a reason people do rat runs with rogues and not wizards

[misty walrus]

I have a suggestion: instead they should buff magic resistance on non metal gears. So good players playing melee classes can choose to use armor with less armor rating but can tank a lot of magic spell. thoughts?

[terse pivot]

@cerulean pollen Devs said it is balanced around 3s but they are considering solo balance and que

[copper crystal]

@cerulean pollen the problem is that this is a pvp game, the balance needs to be centered around the pvp, not pve

[red jewel]

I did play wiz solo. #20 on the leaderboard lol

[copper crystal]

and in pvp, wizards are not balanced period

[cerulean pollen]

thats exactly my point lol. If you're losing to wiz in a pvp setting its a skill diff or he had better support than you

[red jewel]

It's one kill per ignited rondel stab. And ranger teams never had the chance to see me

[terse pivot]

@cerulean pollen Yes and if you are a wizard that loses to any other class besides rogue, you are the worst Dark and darker player in the discord.

[copper crystal]

@cerulean pollen no, it's literally that theyre broken, sure skill has some part of it but the fact is that wizards are not balanced and this is proven by the leaderboards

[cerulean pollen]

Im sure its entirely the fault of wizard's damage output, and definitely not peoples inability to kill the glass cannon poking them with a dagger

[copper crystal]

@cerulean pollen how do you kill a hasted invis class that can nearly 1 shot you both from melee and range? explain bro

it aint that fucking ez

[cerulean pollen]

good players gravitate towards high skill classes/weapons, leaderboards are a semi-false positive

[strong marlin]

Your also only losing to some wizards. I bet you kill 50+% of the wizards you meet

[terse pivot]

Wizards can't 1 shot with ignite dagger atlantean. can't over exaggerate

its 2 shot

[cerulean pollen]

turn up your DPI and turn your camera around instead of freaking out

use a shield, stay close to your team, drink pots before turning corners, listen footsteps

[copper crystal]

@terse pivot ya but it's a dagger so might as well be a 1 shot lol

[misty walrus]

as a fighter player I just scare of wizards. retreat = death but rush a haste wizard is so dangerous

[strong marlin]

Ever seen a fighter with a crossbow?

[red jewel]

you can try to blindfire my footsteps. But that usually doesn't do anything because I use prot pots while invis/haste/ignited. So you're still gonna die

Facestab oneshots with +magic damage gear and the fire duration perk. Wiz / rogue / ranger all die to one facestab with the gear i was running

[inland pelican]

Retreat is how I survived most wizards except when I baited one out for my rogue buddy to stab him to death

[woeful oriole]

@cerulean pollen bonk everything with fire a hue

[terse pivot]

At the highest skill level, you cannot say wizard is a balanced class

If you are a wizard main you have to provide honest feedback for everyones sake

[copper crystal]

the problem with games like this is the same reason why there are ranked que's in games like league of legends and dota, there is such a massive skill disparity between the player base that it's hard for the vast majority of the playerbase to understand why or how something is broken

or what needs to be done to fix it

[misty walrus]

oh good for you. I dont have friends

[terse pivot]

You cannot just say oh yeah skill diff you deserve to die to a wizard. it does nothing

[red jewel]

One of my stabs accidently hit a friendly barb in the arm, and took him to 30%. Also the number of stabs is really inconsequential, because haste also buffs attack speed. Everyone still dies in one second

[cerulean pollen]

again, wizard feels unbalanced because it is a primarily PvP class. cleric is primarily PvE, barbarian is 50/50, ranger is 60% PvE, 40% pvp, rogue is 60% pvp, 40% pve. its just how the class is designed. stop looking at it as raw "omg imba nerf pls"

[terse pivot]

I provided my feedback as a cleric main saying that Judgement needed a nerf

I was honest

I played my class

[inland pelican]

I feel that so strong lol there is a reason I don't have more stories of my rogue friend T-T lonely fighters together!

[terse pivot]

Im not gonna lie and screw the devs and the playerbase

[cerulean pollen]

when (if) wizard gets nerfed, whichever class that is more pvp-centric will be complained about just as much next

high skill cap classes/weapons/players will always upset you. dont play pvp games if you cant accept that

[strong marlin]

@terse pivot honest feedback, I made some insane plays, and killed more 3 man's on a wizard than any other class, but then again I didn't max a barb.

[red jewel]

I would argue Wizards also the best PVE class. Nothing is faster than ignited wizard DPS in melee. Maybe ranger for taking out archers/mosquitos from afar

[copper crystal]

nah, rangers are the best pve class and it's not even close

there is no debate to be had

[misty walrus]

bows are really good for solo PVE

skill friendly

[terse pivot]

@cerulean pollen Ignite was to offset the fact that wizard was weak to pve last playtest. They have balanced in terms of PVE

[copper crystal]

just watch spud playing ranger, it's VERY blatantly broken, he solo's every single thing in the game except the final boss

[cerulean pollen]

wizard is definitely not the best pve class. even from a starting point you need to get dagger/orb before being able to do well in pve unless you want to lug around a -30 movespeed sword

[inland pelican]

I heard a good argument fir clerics clearing a room with the are prayer

[strong marlin]

A wizard that understands his meditation rotation can clear pve very fast. Example you get 1 Missiles back on the first meditation but 2 back on the second.

[red jewel]

bows minimize meditate downtime. ignited wiz has the best straight DPS by a factor of 2 or more depending on magic damage gear

You don't need anything except ignite really

[copper crystal]

@inland pelican theyre decent but nothing close to ranger, rangers have infinite ammo and massive range and can solo everything except the final boss with extreme ease

[strong marlin]

And solely based on the +MD OR +TMD

Which makes it balanced

[inland pelican]

Just had to throw the argument out there :p didn't get to try ranger

[copper crystal]

do rangers have infinite arrows in dnd?

[misty walrus]

yep

[inland pelican]

Depends on the DM most allow it cause too much bookkeeping

[strong marlin]

Last playtest they didn't have to reload. This playtest rangers have to reload.

[copper crystal]

weird but i guess not a big deal on a p&p type game, in a live action game it's absurdly broken tho

[cerulean pollen]

reload was defo a healthy change

[misty walrus]

and it kinda make sense that every ranger bring enough arrows at least for a single fight
and they can restore it after the fight from corpses

[strong marlin]

I would expect them to give the ranger a starting grey rapier and a bundle of arrows, but they may not nerf it anymore.

[copper crystal]

they still need to fix triple shot tho, you can have 1 arrow left and then triple shot AND it reloads you for free, definitely not working as intended

[terse pivot]

@copper crystal They have to leave that or lichking is impossible for them

[cerulean pollen]

ranger should start with a bow and hatchet imo

[strong marlin]

I do think there needs to be a stopping point to endless arrows thru a doorway

[inland pelican]

Yeah... I saw that issue mentioned, they should have free arrows to finish swift shot then have to reload

[cerulean pollen]

maybe make arrows/quivers something you equip or have in your inventory, on your belt or a new inventory slot for example

[strong marlin]

Fair, just saying if they limit the arrows they need a base way to attack.

[copper crystal]

@terse pivot impossible? i highly doubt that, their melee isnt terrible so that makes no sense and cant possibly be even close to being true

[strong marlin]

Well there was the 2 bag slots on our inventory

[terse pivot]

When Lichking enters phase 2 and all the skeletons turn red it is basically impossible.

[copper crystal]

they also need to remove having to manually disable traps, such a dumb idea

[cerulean pollen]

eh I kinda like the manually disable traps, adds to the hardcore element

[copper crystal]

and it was even worse last play test, you ltierally had to do the lockpick mini game to untrap rofl

[cerulean pollen]

in real life a trap wouldnt just suddenly dissapear after 4 seconds of you being rooted in place

your leg gonna still be stuck in that thing until you pull it out

[inland pelican]

Idk, I think anything that makes trapsense more valuable on a rogue is good to have

[kind plover]

Anyone know if your skins will carry over to each playtest/main game?

[pseudo wing]

@kind plover they will not

[terse pivot]

No its for testing RB

[copper crystal]

extremely dumb logic Grayson, by that logic, when an arrow hits you in the head should you have to manually pull it out yourself too? or if a wall spike hits and impales you, should you be stuck until you manually pull it out? ive never in my life seen a cc ability in any game whatsoever that needed to be manually disabled

it's quite possibly the dumbest thing ive ever seen implemented into a pvp game

[strong marlin]

We still had to do the skill check on traps at the beginning of this play test. They fixed that, and I think traps are good. A ranger has to take a perk to place fast, and they make noise

[cerulean pollen]

Its not that everything has to follow 100% realistic logic at all times, its about finding that balance of being game-ified and realism

[tribal cradle]

And yet it’s fun. Some of the best times are having a teammate help free you from a trap while you’re blocking arrows with a shield or a cleric is keeping you alive

[inland pelican]

And as far as trap vanishing after being triggered, safe to assume it was pried open and discarded

[cerulean pollen]

to me the fact they have something that makes players interact with something they havent had to before is super cool

[copper crystal]

not only that but if a corpse is on top of the trap, you literally cannot even target it sometimes and become perma trapped

which i know someone got fucked by

[cerulean pollen]

now that should be tweaked, but the concept on its own is fine to me

[tribal cradle]

Letting you manually interact with cc makes you feel like you can help yourself instead of just waiting for a timer before you can do things again

[copper crystal]

@tribal cradle it really isn't fun at all, it's super cancer and just a really bad idea overall, should jsut be a set timed root and that's it, cc's in pvp games should never need manual disabling

[misty walrus]

idk but isnt trap kinda balance now? the time it required to set it up isnt something that can be done during the fight but before. rangers should be awarded with a cheeky trap that cc the opponent longer than 4 sec

[strong marlin]

The corpse had to fall on the trap, rangers set two at once to make this happen. They can't place under a corpse

[cerulean pollen]

time to realize you are trapped + time it takes to adjust and untrap yourself = the effective equivalent of a normal 2-4 second long root

and if you dont react to it, you're punished more. the dungeon is dark and full of terrors, you should be fully attentive when moving

[copper crystal]

@tribal cradle i means whats next, a class gets a root spell and roots come up out of the ground and now youve gotta look down and swing your sword to slash them off of you? jesus christ this isnt suppose to be real life

[inland pelican]

Well, what if it is a set timer you can choose to take off you if you are fast enough at the game?

[cerulean pollen]

its not like rangers can throw traps at the ground in front of you instantly

[misty walrus]

exactly

[terse pivot]

@copper crystal Druids are coming

[strong marlin]

Duck and let your ranger, fighter, or wizard shot over you. Provide cover.

Or heal thru it

[cerulean pollen]

even with the trap expert perk, ive only ever placed 1 or 2 traps in front of a door as a fighter or rogue was opening it to come get me. its hard

[copper crystal]

@misty walrus considering they can kill you in like 2 seconds i think it's beyond broken especially since you're literally a sitting duck by a single trap, you have almost 0% chance to live vs an actual good ranger

[inland pelican]

I mean sit through the 4 second timer or free yourself faster by cutting roots or setting them on fire

[cerulean pollen]

traps are something that falls into the non-active, pre-planning section of gameplay, like inventory management or paying attention to your environment

[tribal cradle]

I’m getting died to traps constantly bc you wouldn’t learn your lesson vibes tbh

[cerulean pollen]

just gotta watch em more carefully

[tribal cradle]

I stepped in maybe one trap this entire PT

you can hear them set it up, you can watch for them, you can flank, you can disable them fast

If you step in a trap the ranger deserves pressure on you while you disarm it