suggestion-discussion

[stiff jungle]

oh nah i would use the haste and ignite spells too

[trail python]

Lightning bolt and zap headshots just absolutely destroy players

[torn locust]

it can be dodged

[white cliff]

Hey man, honestly the best advice I can give you is not to listen to this guy lmao.

[stiff jungle]

but i would put other spells with other spells and couldnt cast them

something about having to learn them

[trail python]

What

[stiff jungle]

which i didnt know about either

[trail python]

You def did something wrong when you played

[white cliff]

No moron, he’s just exceeding spell capacity.

[trail python]

Which.. would be wrong

[stiff jungle]

yeeeh i didnt know anything about the game, literaly

i tried reading but got lost everytime

and wanted to just try and leanr in game

[trail python]

Yea there’s a little bar that fills up as you equip spells if you go over the limit you won’t be able to cast that spell that went over

[white cliff]

Each spell has a cost, your character has a max amount of spells they can have. You can increase it with gear so you’re able to cast your fifth spell.

I think it starts you off with chain lightning.

[trail python]

If you get enough gear you can have 12 spells although that’s not super useful

[white cliff]

Which you can’t afford to cast.

[trail python]

Not to mention chain lightning does such low damage it’s not even worth the cost

[white cliff]

I mean being able to run zap is great.

[trail python]

^ zap is by far my fav

Headshots on players and the 3 shot on the zombies with starting gear is just too good

[stiff jungle]

i tried running zap with other spells but couldnt use if i remember correctly

[white cliff]

I’ve seen chain lighting kill three people, it just doesn’t happen often.

[trail python]

You need the right gear, I just prefer the instant one tap from lightning bolt and it costs so much less

You can invis haste then lightning bolt somone before they see you

And it instantly kills them

It’s just too good

[stiff jungle]

yeah i feel like i didnt get gold thru out the game at all

[white cliff]

My partner was a top wizard, we played pocket most of the play test. Invis haste is a must honestly.

You can play rogue better than a rogue.

[stiff jungle]

my friends always talked about having to buy this and losing so much while im over here struggling to get bandages T_T T_T

[white cliff]

Did you ever get a character to lvl20?

[vestal plinth]

The developers should certainly consider implementing some sort of incentive systems to encourage players to branch out and play more classes. For example, they should:
1- Implement daily quests with concrete, simple goals such as "Extract as a ranger 5 times". These quests could reward currency which the player can use to enhance their power permanently (think of roguelikes and how you can spend points to get permanent bonuses)
2- A buff-based system where the player receives permanent buffs based on how many characters they have at max level. For example, you could receive a 10% buff to self-healing if you have a max level cleric.
Thoughts?

[white cliff]

I think the levels really makes. Difference.

[trail python]

It really is

[inland pelican]

#d-and-d-suggestions message

Monk class suggestion

[white cliff]

They’re adding a monk class.

[trail python]

Monk is already confirmed

[white cliff]

They’re adding all the classes from 3e.

[trail python]

Read the dev notes people

[white cliff]

That’s the worst part about discussing the game, is re hashing the same topics ten thousand times.

They had to ban talking about the solo queue potential on Reddit.

[trail python]

Talking about releasing the game early should be ban worthy

[inland pelican]

I know they are working on monk, more im suggesting things that could be implemented for it

[white cliff]

True.

[wet jay]

i assume that isn’t happening?

[white cliff]

No.

[wet jay]

fair enough

[white cliff]

They’ve described why quite a few times.

[wet jay]

care to share?

[glacial bridge]

solo queue would be awful

[torn locust]

then dont play solo

[wet jay]

i like the idea of a fill option and possibly have a game chat, similar to the way apex works

[gray vessel]

tbh I hate solo queue idea so much I might queue it with 30 bear traps just to grief every doorway and turn off all lights so people die to pve

[white cliff]

I mean it’s not a game oriented towards solos, splitting the player base. Then you talk about queues to help fill solos, then it’s team killing, then it’s take away friendly fire damage which causes class imbalance. Etc etc.

[torn locust]

its not rocket science. just find people. you are already in the discord server

[white cliff]

Doesn’t work.

People would team kill for loot.

[wet jay]

i didn’t think about team killing

yeah

[ancient briar]

#d-and-d-suggestions message

[wet jay]

scratch that then

[ancient briar]

Wizard too powerful, needs nerf

[white cliff]

And people where scamming in the beta so I doubt team killing would be too far of a reach.

[torn locust]

im gonna give Wizard another go once the game is playable again.

[wet jay]

oh yeah no i fully expect team killing to exist

[loud matrix]

So Psionics as well?

[torn locust]

so you can play as a skeleton. any ideas what other "races" could be played?

[inland pelican]

First thing my buddy and I thought was how easy team killing would be

[torn locust]

i hope for Lizards

common in DnD like games right?

[wet jay]

orc, elf, dark elf, probably the majority of dnd races if i had to guess

lizardfolk probably

[glacial bridge]

i would play solo queue nonstop. the people asking for it are worried about getting rushed in pvp. adding a solo queue would amplify that problem so much worse

[inland pelican]

I just hate monster/minion skins because it fucks with threat assessment

[wet jay]

yeah solo queue would have people spam barbarian and constantly rush

i can def see why they wouldn’t do it

could also be common to see people try to get in the same game and destroy randoms

[torn locust]

meh i was easily and instantly able to tell them apart

but imagine some randoom guy making a youtube video posing as a monster in Dark and Darker to ambush players

[white cliff]

It already exists.

Pretty funny.

[torn locust]

lul

[wet jay]

first time i played i saw a skeleton with weirdly good ai and didn’t realize it was a player lol

[torn locust]

shoulda expected that

[inland pelican]

I couldn't, not when blindsided, thought they were a normal skele till I was stabbed 4 times

[torn locust]

but like the players have a whole different animations and speed

not to mention the gear

[inland pelican]

I get it sim, but blindsided you just see skin, assume the mob from it and move with that, I thought it was a one sword skele (no chest gear) and turned out it was a rogue

[white cliff]

Fight skeleton, remove all the gear.

Jumped a ranger who ran through a skeleton room trying to get to an extract.

Didn’t do too many runs but it was pretty funny.

[inland pelican]

Trust me I appreciate the comedic value lol

[wet jay]

as long as they don’t make skeletons stop attacking you because you are one i won’t really mind

[inland pelican]

Just might be because my only experience was a bad one with the skele skins

[trail python]

They added that skin to see if it would provide a player advantage for that reason

[ancient briar]

It's funny that we had once in the past in a game called Tibia, a wizard that carried a sword and shield. He was as useless a rat found in towns. No one would like to be around him, and yet with his strong efforts he became the strongest class in the game.

He wasn't able to cast too many spells as his mana pool wasn't big enough. The only thing that worked for him was creating runes and using them in battle. In the beginning he was too weak to make a lot of damage to its foes but with time and a lot of effort. He has became the most feared class in the game. The only class that could one tap.

I'd love to see that here too.

[inland pelican]

Eh...

[white cliff]

Sorry big homie your suggestion already has 20 downvotes.

[ancient briar]

I know lol.. too hardcore I get it :/

I'd never expect that people would like the idea.. These old games are gone.

[white cliff]

Not too hardcore that’s just not how game design works or their vision for the game.

[finite tide]

Yeah glad to hear the devs are looking at it and will hopefully remove them @inland pelican

[inland pelican]

You are talking to a guy that loves spellblades, and that just wouldn't work in this kinda game

[white cliff]

Oh boy another add proximity chat suggestion. Daring today aren’t we.

Edited to, Oh boy another PvE suggestion.

[inland pelican]

Bard and/or warlock would be the closest... and im sure they will lean more into utility casting then melee or combat magic

[vestal plinth]

Because of overwhelming interest, here are my suggestions in one big post.
1- add Ultimate abilities (for example, something like Mercys resurrection from Overwatch)
2- add mythical rarity equipment that everyone has access to upon starting a game, similar to mythical items in League of Legends (this will reduce the power gap between geared and ungeared players)
3- Give solo players a buff, something that will even the odds between solo and party players (for example, a 100% damage and hp increase if you play solo)
Thoughts?
4- Implement daily quests with concrete, simple goals such as "Extract as a ranger 5 times". These quests could reward currency which the player can use to enhance their power permanently (think of roguelikes and how you can spend points to get permanent bonuses)
5- A buff-based system where the player receives permanent buffs based on how many characters they have at max level. For example, you could receive a 50% buff to self-healing if you have a max level cleric.

[glacial bridge]

nice meme lmao

[inland pelican]

I gotta hold ya up at 1... yikes

[lime storm]

Because of overwhelming interest, here are my suggestions in one big post.
1- add Ultimate abilities (for example, something like Mercys resurrection from Overwatch)
2- add mythical rarity equipment that everyone has access to upon starting a game, similar to mythical items in League of Legends (this will reduce the power gap between geared and ungeared players)
3- Give solo players a buff, something that will even the odds between solo and party players (for example, a 100% damage and hp increase if you play solo)
Thoughts?
4- Implement daily quests with concrete, simple goals such as "Extract as a ranger 5 times". These quests could reward currency which the player can use to enhance their power permanently (think of roguelikes and how you can spend points to get permanent bonuses)
5- A buff-based system where the player receives permanent buffs based on how many characters they have at max level. For example, you could receive a 50% buff to self-healing if you have a max level cleric.

[white cliff]

These are the feedback comments I’m most scared of.

[gray vessel]

This is why I made a suggestion just saying "Don't overreact because of the feedback"

[wide sage]

Oh, hey dood

[white cliff]

The the game needs to be like my favorite game, and the the game needs to be fair for everyone and solos.

[potent rampart]

@vestal plinth has some very reasonable ideas that should be properly discussed, but I have to strongely disagree with @lime storm, that shit's crap.

[inland pelican]

Yo crypt!

[glacial bridge]

i suggest the devs dont make the game they have been making and instead make the abstract game that i want them to make. they do work for me now after all

[white cliff]

Devs.

Devs and mods are different.

[glacial bridge]

lol i meant that hah

[lime storm]

i mean... our ideas are pretty similar with that guy ngl

why you didn't like mines

[inland pelican]

Mines are great for silver and coal! I love mines

[white cliff]

Not everyone can be game designers and that’s okay.

[potent rampart]

There were some very specific quotations, commata and such, as well as the overall vibe of your attempt @lime storm, just didn't give me the same feels you know?

[white cliff]

@light jetty Just convert your gold into candy canes.

[wide sage]

giving a buff to solo players is a horrible take. Players are already able to easily 1v3 throught minmaxing, if solo players get a buff, it would amplifying that to the point that sweats would exclusively go solo to increase their ability to murder everyone in their path

[white cliff]

The word easily and 1v3 don’t come to mind for me lol.

[inland pelican]

Third party then?

[wide sage]

thats because you, like me, arent at the top skill bracket

but those that ARE would run amuck

even more than they already do

[white cliff]

Uh….I’ve been a top100 cleric both play test. 😂

[inland pelican]

I went into a 1v3 and killed a barb! Lol

[potent rampart]

Hot Take:

When you died 10 times in a row in the dungeon the mobs will team up with you and murder everyone on the server so you get your serotonin once in a while. Would rate my idea 5/7.

[glacial bridge]

coordinating as a group of 3 isnt easy to do. if you make a mistake and give a geared solo the chance to isolate and get a clean pick then a 1v3 is very doable

[wide sage]

huh, isn't imbeding, weird

[white cliff]

Not saying it doesn’t happen, just hasn’t happened to me. Haven’t really seen many clips of it either.

But we’re always on comms.

[potent rampart]

This boils down to: "If enemy inexperienced, enemy dead."

If the playing field is even, your stated scenario would never apply.

[warped root]

Solo player getting pve dmg buff would be amazing or like a sneak passive where you can crouch past pve without waking/aggro

[potent rampart]

Either the solo is as bad as the team and will die. Or they are both good enough for the solo to know he can't fairly take the fight.

[white cliff]

Solo players don’t need a buff.

[white cliff]

Thank you kind sir.

[inland pelican]

Look, once d1 is released all this new player buff stuff is out the window...

[gray vessel]

In a perfect world maybe, but I think you underestimate the lack of options when a wraith is chasing the group of 3 or smth. Map layout, 3rd parties, and pve can all add variability to give the 1 more opportunity

[wide sage]

d1?

[inland pelican]

D1 is supposed to be easier and have more portals

[white cliff]

More much to dredge through to reach B3. Yuck.

[wide sage]

oh the first floor

[inland pelican]

D1 is dungeon level 1

[white cliff]

Yeah.

B, for basement.

[inland pelican]

Ahh misheard >.<

[potent rampart]

Then it does, as explained, not down to a real 1v3 situation. Therefore you can't balance such a situation.

[warped root]

What’s the issue with the buffs I mentioned if you have an opinion on them

[glacial bridge]

there doesnt even need to be a large skill/gear difference. a solo ranger is going to shoot arrows and run away if he wants. its not some obscure scenario that he lands shots in succession and kills a target without getting hit.

[inland pelican]

Sorry for misinformation

[white cliff]

It’s a team game, solos should never have the advantage, they don’t get hand holding, they don’t get buffs. 🤷🏼‍♂️

The devs time and time again have said this is the case.

[potent rampart]

It's not a obscure scenario that the enemy team has either a ranger as well, a cleric to outperform the poke, a fighter to block of the arrows, or a rogue to catch up to the ranger.

[wide sage]

for solo players that arent good at fighting 1v3, they need to learn to instead cover their tracks and thinking ahead with escape and hiding plans

[white cliff]

Honestly being a solo isn’t that tough so long as you run.

Started a new character midway through the play test just to see if the complaints where warranted.

[glacial bridge]

and that ranger has to deal with positioning with his team. if they arent standing in front of him then its just an archer 1v1 battle. the 3v1 aspect barely comes into effect

[potent rampart]

Surely, a ranger has some agreeable change to poke on a 3-man. And cases exist where you can actually kill them all. But this boils down to a skill difference between the opponents.

That solo ranger may take down 1 opponent in a 3-man party due to element of surprise on even skill level yes. But on an even skill level, after this element, the team will know how to move away from the ranger and deny him his ranger/space advantage.

[wide sage]

I got 5 completed runs totalling 1k gold in a row during the last day. why? cause I stopped taking fights I couldn't win. You're vulnerable alone, and if you play like it instead of being reckless, you'll be fine.

[white cliff]

You forgot that I just gave my ranger, wizard, rogue, fighter etc. 20 physical prot, +3 Agi will strength, +10 weapon damage and they are hurdling at you at Mach 10.

[potent rampart]

You can always compare a bad ranger to a good team or a goodass ranger to an uncoordinated team.

But thats not the idea of balancing.

[glacial bridge]

its so easy for a solo player to choose to fight if they want to and choose to leave if they want to. it isnt a crazy disadvantage as much as you want to pretend

[white cliff]

It’s not a 1v1 when I’m healing them with 35 instant hp.

Four times.

😂

Cleric hands down is the best class.

[potent rampart]

I never ever said its a disadvantage. Simply that 1v3 cant be "balanced", because its a tilted scale from the start.

[glacial bridge]

thats why i said they would have to hit follow ups in succession. the scenario either aligns or the kill isnt there and he just chooses to walk away

[white cliff]

So we play pocket wizard, the ranger doesn’t get away. The ranger is already dead lol.

[potent rampart]

Take the opposite @glacial bridge, a solo can choose (with enough speed and space) which fights to take and not to take.

[white cliff]

The wizard has been hasted and invis the moment we heard him through the door.

[potent rampart]

But he can't and shouldn't have the ability to contest a 3-man in their space if the 3-man isnt playing worse than him

[white cliff]

Absolutely correct.

Man sweed you got some good opinions.

[glacial bridge]

what are you even talking about lmao

[white cliff]

You stated the ranger walks away.

[potent rampart]

Did I get you wrong? What was your quintessential idea or point of discussion then?

[white cliff]

The ranger doesn’t walk away when the invis wizard is already on top of him. Keep in mind he’s solo.

[severe temple]

They need to look at the spiders hitboxes. They are super inconsistent and can be very annoying.

[white cliff]

The hit boxes are fine.

They’re just small.

[glacial bridge]

i hate to break it to you, but every ranger you have ever killed on this video has made a mistake.

[white cliff]

What you’re wanting is larger a usable hit boxes.

[inland pelican]

Long story short there is no remedy for 1v3 other then good old caution and common sense, no buff can or should give that

[severe temple]

Ill hit them in the dead center and it goes right through them

[glacial bridge]

any ranger who cant just walk away has thrown the fight

[potent rampart]

Personal opinion and not fact-based. Talk with any rogue on this server that knows how to dodge properly. Not even starting with the rest.

They possess great advantage, yes. And as I already approved, they can choose to take or not to take fights fairly well. But they don't possess the ability to engage or disengage in closer areas, especially in the end of the round.

[warped root]

Spiders need a bigger hit box if u say otherwise that’s cap

[white cliff]

I didn’t say they didn’t, I said the hit boxes weren’t broken.

They’re small, not broken.

[potent rampart]

You can walk backwards away from a spider while crouching and hitting it with a dagger with ease.

[white cliff]

Not disjointed.

Everything is tied to the models.

[inland pelican]

Lol reaper

[lime storm]

i see...

[white cliff]

Someone mentioned overwatch earlier. If you shoot around a tanks head you can hit them without shooting it.

The hit box is bigger and is disjointed from the model.

The spiders hit box it not, it’s tied to its body and legs.

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.

[inland pelican]

My rogue buddy complained that he wasn't registering hits on the skeleton because his reticle went between ribs, any truth to that statement?

[white cliff]

Yep.

Factual.

[gray vessel]

Wait but aren't you calling his opinion then instantly stating your own opinion that is also a comparison of skilled rogues vs the average ranger? Just as much as a rogue can dodge well, a ranger can aim well and expect dodges. No?

[white cliff]

You can shoot through the rib cage with arrows it’s not just a solid box.

[trail python]

Skill issue

[potent rampart]

Getting a grip on properly hitting skellys with rondell especially is a brick at the start, yes.

Got my fair share of "what the fuck?" at the stat.

[inland pelican]

Nice lol

[white cliff]

@fringe void

[inland pelican]

Love that so much

[potent rampart]

But it works properly. Don't worry. As soon as you got the rhythm you can hit head twice, let skelly swing, then hit head down right, head left when coming up, head when back standing, repeat cycle.

[inland pelican]

Was only ever fighter or cleric so I never had the missing through the ribs issue

[white cliff]

PvE cleric experience is nice.

100 damage aoe makes rooms go brrrrr.

[inland pelican]

My learning pains were trying to learn how to shield right

[potent rampart]

Fair point. But from my point of view and experience on an even skill take a rogue is more likely to ambush and/or rush a ranger to a successful kill 1v1 than vice versa. Therefore my statement. But valid take.

[warped root]

Okay bozo no one said they’re difficult I’m saying my crosshair on their body/legs with a dagger and I watch the knife smack them and yet it doesn’t connect with anything, sounds like a hit box issue. just saying they could make the hitbox a tiny bit bigger. QOL fix is all I’m mentioning they can be dealt with easily wether there’s a change or not.

[potent rampart]

Depends whether the hitbox is that small intentionally to make arrow and small weapon hits on spiders more difficult.

[fringe void]

Please do not insult others (:

[potent rampart]

But I can assure you that the weapon hits register properly with a dagger when you either crouch backwards away from spiders or look exactly down in front of you when hitting them.

[inland pelican]

Mmkay back to work, pinging my class suggestion once more, hope the devs will take a look at it and see something they like

#d-and-d-suggestions message

[potent rampart]

Maybe it makes more sense when you see a teammate rogue attack spiders. Then you see that you actually dont hit the spider.

[warped root]

End of the day I’d take the game as is it’s very fun so far I miss it and am having withdrawals send help

[inland pelican]

I feel you reaper

[ashen forge]

I feel like a lot of the melee ranges are a little wonky in general

There was several times I needed to be in like dagger range when I had a spear

[potent rampart]

Really? Didn't experience that for myself, but not using them that often. If its a common issue it will probably be looked into.

[verbal shoal]

#d-and-d-suggestions message I hope they add this

[ashen forge]

I mean I may just be crazy but imo it felt off

But overall the game is great I’m excited to see what new they come up with

[warped root]

I’m ready for them to drop a preorder just take my money I’m down bad and tries chivalry 2 for the first time today just to get some melee action in lol

[ashen forge]

Ong

[glacial bridge]

dont forget that Minsc is a Ranger

[trail python]

I’ll say it nicer next time

[muted moth]

Oh yeah I played a lot with a friend who's colourblind and I could tell he was really struggling sometimes to tell us the quality of an item

[trail python]

Are there not colorblind settings? I thought that was like standard

[muted moth]

Not yet but no doubt it's gonna be a thing

[white cliff]

@solemn sparrow Not every game needs to be zoomer fuel like cod or fortnite with insane movement.

Slower games are okay.

Some games play differently and that’s okay too.

[night bloom]

Been thinking about this lately, theory crafting with a few friends
in short, what does everyone think about this;
keep wizards similar to how they are now. However, lower their health pool. They should be balanced around being killed in 2-3 hits to body 1-2 in the head with most weapons excluding daggers, survival bows, battleaxes, etc. on both lower and top end of the spectrum.
the idea of this and the feedback that I got from the playtest is that Wizards represent a high skill high risk high reward playstyle and we shouldn't rob them of that. The issue is that a long ranged-build wizard shouldn't be able to challenge 1-2 rangers and not feel fear. and a invis+haste+ignite wizard shouldn't be able to challenge a fighter+barb+cleric combo without feeling fear. Skill is what carries those engagements as a wizard+X / + X or even a solo wizard. not the thought of "I can take a few hits and get out." its the "I can take a few hits" part of that statement that is the issue and I believe lowering their total health would help to solve this.

[white cliff]

I don’t think the problem with wizards is that they have too much health.

[muted moth]

But I want to chop crates, get woods and instantly build walls and ramps tho

[night bloom]

tell me you didnt read the statement without telling me you didnt read the statement

[gray vessel]

I don't think i've ever hit a wizard and not finished the kill lol, the movement slow from hitting them traps them with you till death.

[white cliff]

No I read it.

[night bloom]

fair

[white cliff]

I said the exact same thing this guy said lol.

[muted moth]

Wiz already get one hit in the face by barbarian and geared rangers

[verbal shoal]

Its too early to tackle good balancing. It should stay as is

[solemn sparrow]

that's just my opinion, I don't need that much movement, just like lightly faster

[deep yacht]

if you put away your weapon you are fast enaugh it really snt slow at all

[white cliff]

And this is just a discussion channel to discuss said opinions?

[wide sage]

im back, what i miss

[night bloom]

there has been tons of times where i sheathed my weapons and killed people with my fists cause of movement speed differences

[viral dawn]

Personally I really like how slow combat and movement feels. It makes the game more challenging and unique to me 😄

[muted moth]

There's way to increase your movement speed as much as you want

[night bloom]

I have a feeling speed potions will be a thing in the future

[wide sage]

"in a world of fast paced modernized shooters, one game stands above the rest to deliver a different kind of pace, one that some might consider... slower"

[deep yacht]

yea if you know how 2 youse your abillities its really not that slow

[wide sage]

did you just spell "use" as "youse"??

[glacial bridge]

ahead of the game. soon everyone will be doing it

[tribal cradle]

youse gots 2 brake the dores wit da axe

[deep yacht]

sure i wouldnt mind that but youll need a debuff after if you had like 20 move speed more as a rouge and then dont had a debuff after i think you are 2 powerful as bababerian or rouge and if you consider the speed shrine youll be faster through the dungeon than anyone would expect

[night bloom]

Diablo 1 movement was bis

[deep yacht]

im not an egnlish native so let me be XD

[wide sage]

okay that makes more sense

[deep yacht]

see XD

[inland pelican]

I'm too addicted, I'm here at work xD

[wide sage]

lmao

[deep yacht]

LOL

[wide sage]

I woke up, made tea, and immediately opened this channel

[wispy patrol]

#d-and-d-suggestions message

Would like to add this would make the "delving deeper" portals have additional incentive if there were more advanced resource nodes at deeper levels...

[white cliff]

Yeah I’m not sure how to feel about your suggestion. First one I’ve been in the middle about.

[tribal cradle]

Well, delving deeper is already pretty incentivized by the loot but I can see customizing your starting gear being kinda fun

Like taking a different basic weapon over the one already defaulted to your class (but still within reason)

[deep yacht]

i think it cant be done if suddenly all your teammates could get like your arm pices

[wide sage]

maybe crafted starting gear can't be looted?

[inland pelican]

I love the light spell idea! Imagine letting your barb or fighter be the light source to pull aggro from players passively or dropping a bangle and using light on it as a distraction?

Or light to highlight a target!?

[wispy patrol]

Could be bound in one of two ways:

1. Can't be looted
2. Can't be taken out of the dungeon via blue portal.

[deep yacht]

but i think even then you need to not be abel 2 drop it and if the rare case that you find something better you had 2 take it with you

[white cliff]

I don’t generally support the suggestions that make the game easier. I do like the better ores being in B3 though.

[wispy patrol]

Absolutely. For example if the ranger actually wanted to run a crossbow build. Having a starting gear crossbow at their disposal they could eventually craft would be fun progression.

[wide sage]

I think, nothing above white as far as permanent starting equipment

its exclusively a "i can start off with a specific build" thing

[white cliff]

I mean everyone would just pick the strongest one though.

[next wagon]

Pov u don't get that the game will be based in seasonal wipes 😴 #d-and-d-suggestions message

[tribal cradle]

I agree, otherwise experienced players can snowball their starting gear to the point that new players would be outclassed even if they found a good bit of gear to use during the run

[wide sage]

yeah

[wispy patrol]

The current crafted gear is a huge jump up from the starting equipment. But if it was micro-upgrades I think the progression would be rewarding. And allow players who put in the hours to have a permanent set of starting gear that's better than someone who is just joining the game. Making it easier for them to do deep runs.

[inland pelican]

Seasonal wipes aren't mutually exclusive with this idea, ya just gotta craft each season

[wispy patrol]

true

[wide sage]

im not sure i follow. if the permanent starting gear from crafting was only white gear, it would all be bottom of the barrel. it would allow players to get to the point where they can experiment with different builds from the get-go

[white cliff]

Sure but the white cross bow and long bow are just going to be better than the survival bow.

🤷🏼‍♂️

[next wagon]

Oh of course lets change the base game idea to make it easier

[tribal cradle]

I'm not totally in love with the craftable starting gear but I think being able to modify a stat on your gear with gathered resources (or crafting consumables) would be nice. Allows for high level optimization while still running the risk of losing it, getting killed while gathering.

[ancient briar]

They should just add a casual server if you want permanent gear.

[tribal cradle]

Of course the draw back for that would be people stacking the best stat on every piece of gear with resources, so that would need to be addressed but any hardcore game is going to have min-maxers

[wispy patrol]

Dude its not easier. I was only able to craft one piece of gear after 40 hours of this alpha.

[inland pelican]

I mean I like crafted white gear for the two weapon fighters or the bow fighters

[white cliff]

It takes about 3 hours to farm a full set of ruby armor.

Plus you can just buy the ore.

[ancient briar]

The flat stats of crafted gear are crazy enough. It's exactly where it should be. 40hours a piece isn't much.

[inland pelican]

Totally different playstyles you can't have to start

[wispy patrol]

Have some imagination. Doesn't have to be a jump to purple tier.

[next wagon]

Bro even if u take half a season to make a full set of good gear, u really think will be ok to just die with it and don't lose it never? lol

[spice pawn]

Diablo 1 multiplayer was a ton of fun, before all those "kill all from town" hacks hit the scene.

tbh, I didn't mind people drop-duping elixers to max their stats. in a way, they were working for it

[deep yacht]

if its minor maximum blue gear and not 2 strong i wouldnt mind it but if you have purpel gear crafted and cant loose it you cant die its nearly impossible to die with a good bodyarmor for the barberian if you have a cleric behind you and a archer even if the arecher doesnt hit shit youll be unstoppabel

[white cliff]

I really don’t want everyone running around with all blue gear.

Defeats the purpose of the game.

It’s the whole risk reward thing.

[inland pelican]

I don't condone perma gear outside of white starter equipment just saying

[white cliff]

It’s an extract based looter.

[next wagon]

yeah this rookies cry too much

[spice pawn]

I wouldn't mind a set of maps where for some lore-related reason, everyone who plays that particular map set has to zero-to-hero only

[wide sage]

yeah, anything above the weakest equipment defeats the point

[white cliff]

It’s fine, allow him to voice his opinion. That’s the point of the channel.

[deep yacht]

or maybe give the archer a choice when you create it with what gear youll want to start crossbow or bow

[wide sage]

im even iffy about leveling up increasing stats. that in itself is huge with how impactful stats already are currently

[spice pawn]

I like the "powering up" / training montage part of the first few minutes of every dive. it's kinda like how League of Legends has you start over so you can feel that progress again in the beginning

[next wagon]

For me the game will still ok to play even if u come naked if u don't have more gear like in EFP, but only if the spawns are a little more far from each other and the map bigger

[deep yacht]

but personally ill alway go for a normal bow and ill take a heavy crossbow as secondary when im in a 3 man

[inland pelican]

I like the crafting bit for fighters, the sheer number of loadouts for them is nuts and not possible to start with if you want bows, 2h axes or two weapon fighting... just my thoughts on base white crafted gear

[wide sage]

yeah. i'd like to start with a dagger or crystal sword as a wizard, just cause i personally hate the staff

clearing mobs as an ungeared wizard without wasting spells is a nightmare for me

[glacial bridge]

yeah i cant stand the staff. i bought trash books from the vendor as soon as i had gold

[next wagon]

yeah craftable gear will be a awesome feature too

[wary shell]

I cant wait to play druid in this game

[inland pelican]

The craft would JUST be for trash white starter items, but allow you to use your playstyle

[wary shell]

[inland pelican]

Imo

[wide sage]

im very curious about the druid. I wonder if they'll still have spellcasting capability, or are they exclusively shapeshifters

[wary shell]

if they are like they are from D&D

they will be both

[spice pawn]

yea the nature of meditation makes me feel that wiz only played with a regular tempo if he's in a party (ideally a smash barb) -- after you clear the scene, you always meditate whenever it comes off cooldown. then you party loots the room and drops relevant stuff by your feet. as soon as you get back up, party pushes forward. that way you're always using up spells, as well.

I also tended to use up the spells evenly, so I'm more likely to top-off from meditate

[inland pelican]

They will likely hive shape-shifting forms as active ability one for each form and one spell knowledge active so they have to pick

[next wagon]

I think even if they add an upgradable crafting station that let u make even legendary items latter will still ok as long as u can still lose it

[wary shell]

root someone, go bear mode

[wide sage]

thats what im hoping, but that also seesm too complicated for this games scope, maybe

[wary shell]

shapeshifting would probably just be an ability

[inland pelican]

Agreed gamma, so long as you can lose it

[tribal cradle]

#d-and-d-suggestions message
coming from a wizard AND barb main, what do y'all think?

Seeing as the barb already has an MR perk and wants to rush squishies I see him as a spell caster counter so I think it would complement his kit

[wide sage]

yeah, currently barbs seem like they are meant to be anti-magic, so that seems very fitting

[wary shell]

could just add it to his current shout

[inland pelican]

Druid would either get spells and one form or two forms likely between bear for tank, cat for dps or rat for stealth each form would be its own active and spells would be its own but not cashable in beast form

[tribal cradle]

was thinking that too, so that the physical damage debuff plus silence is good against melee characters and casters

[spice pawn]

I wonder if they'll add a special "hell-forge" dungeon RNG maptile that let's you craft certain things via a dungeon-only forge

[ancient briar]

That's I'm sure coming to the game.

[wary shell]

I kinda want a barb perk that lets you slow people with throwing axes, but the slow effect has a cooldown so you cant spam it

[wide sage]

someone last night made the suggestion of having only SOME of the map be RNG, which I actually really like

[radiant walrus]

some of the map already is rng

[wide sage]

is it? like what

[wispy patrol]

Yeah, I understand what you are saying. Currently the only crafting takes you straight to purple gear. But if it was reworked so that it actually went in tiers starting at grey > white > green > blue > purple > yellow.... it could actually be a neat progression system. Especially if grey/white nodes could only be found floor 1 of normal and white/green nodes could only be found in floor 2 or norms. Then you could have the nodes for everything above that found in ante dungeons and deeper floors for them.

I would caveat that the crafted gear would not have any randomized stats/bonuses on them. It would just be the base/core stats of the item. To get ones with bonuses on them you would have to get them as drops.

[radiant walrus]

trap placement, and room placement

and it gets more intense on high roller

[inland pelican]

I mean really so long as starting rooms are on the outer edge and all the rooms are in the dungeon I wouldn't mind all else as rng

[next wagon]

all on them are semi random gen already actually

[white cliff]

Sure that’s the part I liked, I don’t like your suggestion about keeping it in any capacity.

You should be able to craft more.

[radiant walrus]

i think gear definitely should/will be slowed down on full release making crafting white gear better

its actually pretty underrated

[white cliff]

Being a lil farmer guy and making some gold profit from the armor seems like an interesting gimmick.

[wide sage]

I didn't know that, I was starting to get the impression it was all the same. even trap placements seemed pretty predictable after a while, it felt

i never got to high roller, though

[tribal cradle]

If we're going that way, picking a trade for crafting would be cool

[spice pawn]

here's hoping they add pit-fall traps that open up beneath you and drop you into a room below (as opposed to just the addition of map tiles with holes in the floor during the last test)

[wide sage]

that'd be cool. I would like to see more trap variety

I'd also like to see more secret passages/bookcases/etc

[wispy patrol]

That would be cool. And would actually add more to the player economy.

[next wagon]

The Players Spawn rooms and some mob placements are the only two I remember being randomised

[inland pelican]

Poison dart wall traps would be great, really add a trapsense rogues value

[spice pawn]

tbh, I wouldn't mind if there's a little RNG with which particular book opens the passageway (assuming it opens at all in that dungeon instance)

[wide sage]

agreed

[spice pawn]

that way, if someone hears you in the "obvious" bookcase secret room ,adn you closed it, at least you hafve a moment since they won't just beeline to the obvious red book lever

[wispy patrol]

Even if it was just base gear with no added bonuses?

[tribal cradle]

What about being able to trap chests or doors?

[white cliff]

You already keep a set of base gear.

It ruins a lot of the risk reward if I don’t have to risk a gear set.

[wide sage]

trapping chests would be cool, but also a tricky thing to keep fair.

[wispy patrol]

You will still have tons of risk vs reward when you are running optimized gear with +x and +% perks

which you wouldn't find on crafted gear

[white cliff]

Like I said I don’t upvote or advocate making the game easier.

[wispy patrol]

The spirit of my suggestion it to facilitate some sort of progression.

[ancient briar]

I hope they'll add many other rarity grades for crafted gear.. and also I hope you'll be able to melt that equipment for the materials.. half of the materials that were used to craft it.

You'd be guys working for me to get to purple.

[next wagon]

@radiant wave Love u

[radiant wave]

🙂 ❤️

[white cliff]

The progression is moving gear rarity to rarity. My stash is always filled with greens, then blues, then purples as I snowball.

It doesn’t need to be crafted.

The whole gameplay loop is looting and risking said loot.

[wispy patrol]

then this suggestion doesn't even harm you 🤷‍♂️

[ancient briar]

No, it doesn't need to be.. but if you could craft it... Well.. I hope I could benefit from gathering those items.

[white cliff]

It does if it harms the core of the game?

[ancient briar]

Idk, Even though I am not fan of crafting and gathering.. In fact I always avoided crafting and gathering at all cost, however I find gathering quite a cool concept in this game.

[next wagon]

Did u ask for an solo queue too? pve map? just curious

[white cliff]

Based.

You sir are asking the right questions.

[wispy patrol]

It further incentives delving deeper. Actually adds value to crafting beyond just killing and looting. Creates additional PvP hotspots. etc.

[wide sage]

its already part of the base game loop. you gather gold and gear, so having another thing to gather for different reasons just slides in seamlessly

[ancient briar]

We need an alchemy skill, that will allow you to craft potions. Suicide potions that would look like health potions could be a nice idea.. And also to counter this, there would be a need for identification the potions you drink.

Gold is useless, but you haven't discovered it yet. You might understand that in next playtest though.

[gray vessel]

not a bad idea tbh

[white cliff]

The incentive to delve deeper is the better loot. The core loop is also killing and looting and the hotspots are created by the zones.

[wispy patrol]

No, soloQ would hurt the game. PvE is pointless for this game.

[ancient briar]

Gold might be useful when the marketplace gets into the game instead of this trading outpost. I don't know what are your opinions on that but I wish I could actually use my gold to purchase something of use rather than paying for items that should be deleted in the first place.

[wide sage]

well yeah, i never got very far. if you cant reliably buy blues, gold wont be that valuable once you start looting blues more frequently. I understand that

[white cliff]

Huh?

Gold is super useful?

[white cliff]

I mean gold allows you to buy gear.

[ancient briar]

At times, yes it allows you to purchase an item but most often when you look at the trading post you see garbage not items.

[white cliff]

Am I not following this conversation? What am I missing?

[gray vessel]

yeah I also don't know what gold is for, my barbarian had 1500 by the end of that playtest. I couldn't spend it fast enough

[white cliff]

Y’all need to spend your gold on items lmao.

[gray vessel]

I WAS

[wide sage]

yeah, but i very rarely saw blues in the merchants, and NEVER a purple. so once you get a baseline of blue gear and can consistently maintain that, gold loses its value other than to get backup gear if you have a losing streak with all your best gear

[white cliff]

Well, you need to convert it into candy canes but yeah.

[coarse tide]

All this gold and gray vendor gear lmao

[gray vessel]

like 9 hp pots per round, 6 prot potions, bandages, ect

[leaden marten]

I love this so much

[ancient briar]

You mean those blue or purple wizard shoes with barbarian stats?

[white cliff]

You don’t buy from the merchants, the game wants you to commune and trade.

The devs emphasize trade this way.

I mean look for the stat lines you want.

[wide sage]

sure, but curently the trade function is so obnoxious i dont even want to bother interacting with it

[white cliff]

I mean that’s your problem then.

[wispy patrol]

100%
But in its current state node farming and crafting is without value because of what you just said. Which is not a bad thing, absolutely people should be able to gear up simply by looting the dungeon. Makes no sense to me why you think that a much slower process that offers equivalent but worse gear of the same tier threatens the cycle for you.

[ancient briar]

Well with a marketplace I think it'd be easier to find the items you need. For now you can sit in trading post for 10 minutes and you may find one item that could do the work for you.

[white cliff]

Refusing to learn a pretty core mechanic.

[leaden marten]

Also, SDF mentions they intend to have something like the Hideout in Tarkov. You spend a lot of currency upgrading your hideout and it will likely be the same for this game. Did you ever play tarkov?

[ancient briar]

Yes, it's my main game that I play. Dark and Darker is better unfortunately.. I hope Tarkov will learn a thing from devs of dark and darker

[tribal cradle]

Just make it so you can only link items in the respective trading posts. Weapons in weapons, armor in armor, etc... I think it was already discussed last night

[white cliff]

It should be locked to class.

Not type.

It would be so much better.

[wide sage]

its not about learning the mechanic, its very straightforward. its just not well designed atm. chat moves too fast to read it properly, getting lost VERY quickly. most people agree the trade needs to be adjusted to reduce spam clutter and maintain some form of consistency

[next wagon]

Do u guys think they will ad more races to the game?

[white cliff]

It’s messy, but refusing to use it hinders your experience.

[leaden marten]

I hope so, too. Tons of refreshing ideas and experiences coming out of this camp.

[ancient briar]

2 minute cooldown and letting people whisper in chat would be enough of a fix. Something like Tibia chat has.

[wide sage]

I know. I'll interact with it when it's designed better.

[leaden marten]

Yes.

[wide sage]

I'm happy running normals with my npc merchant gear til lthen

[white cliff]

Sure but then you can’t complain about gold having no value lol.

[wide sage]

im not the one complaining about it lmao

im just understanding his point

[white cliff]

I mean that’s on you big homie, that’s your prerogative.

[wide sage]

this mans

[white cliff]

You play how you want to play.

[wispy patrol]

I'm hoping races are purely cosmetic in nature. I don't want to feel race locked to be able to min/max

[inland pelican]

Aye roo

[tribal cradle]

That would be easily solved by the human race usually always being completely well rounded, allowing you freedom to do whatever you want

[ancient briar]

It's not like I am complaining about a gold being useless.. it's a good thing as well.. Tarkov has roubles and dollars that allow you to purchase anything you want. Is that a good deisgn? No, it is not. Tarkov design of currency doesn't allow items to be unique and you don't have to worry about losing them because you'll purchse them again from traders.

[leaden marten]

If that's what you value in the game, thennnnnnnn

If they want to make a game where the races are true to scale

and similar to fantasy

[night bloom]

I would say blues is the end cap for gear. anything past that doesnt make a difference unless youre going for lich / ghost king kills

[next wagon]

I'm afraid they add dwarfs or small goblins

[leaden marten]

And add certain strengths and weaknesses inherit because of their sizes and traits, I think that's exciting.

[next wagon]

The hit box will be broken

[wide sage]

I actually like that the skeleton race was used to confuse players. I think that's an interesting and fun interaction. I just hope something will offset it

[next wagon]

That's what i'm hopping

[tribal cradle]

Yeah I mean, running a 0 knowledge 100 strength orc barb would be fun

[leaden marten]

Same.

[wispy patrol]

That solves nothing when it comes to stats. if orcs have +3 strength. You better believe all barbs and fighters are going to be orcs regardless of the humans

[white cliff]

Y’all keep confusing small hit boxes for broken hit boxes and it’s bugging me lol.

[night bloom]

If you die in full blues, its not cause of gear difference, its cause of bad positioning or misplay.

[tribal cradle]

so then if you want to min max strength, go orc haha

[leaden marten]

No, some people might wanna be a human because they wanna be a human

that only matters to min maxers and people that like orcs

[white cliff]

And some people want to be furries for…some reason. Idk people think dogs are sexy I guess?

[leaden marten]

Woof Woof

[mellow sluice]

This game also caters to people who enjoy tarkov and the likes so min maxers galore

[wispy patrol]

There is no reason they can't just apply tasha's caldron to this game as well. Allow the cosmetics and the stats of choosing a race to be independent of each other.

[ancient briar]

Well not necessarily because orc stat might have something that you wouldn't desire.. a negative stat..

Orc wizard could be a better idea.. it'd get +4 strength for a -4 will.
Human usually in games is the most balanced for some reason. Let's give him -1 to all stats.
Elf let's say would have -2 strength, +2 knowledge and so on.

[tribal cradle]

Adding races with inherit strengths and weaknesses allows another level of optimization and roleplay. Small stat differences won't affect people who simply want to play arace of their choice. Whereas people who don't care about the race but want the modifiers can happily min max

[leaden marten]

yep^

[tribal cradle]

Race passives are usually never to the point that they completely ruin your build

You can definitely play a mage orc and do just fine

[spice pawn]

I would like to play as a sentient medieval outhouse, sir

[leaden marten]

But I think they won't introduce races w/ different hitboxes until later down the line. It's a lot of balancing

[ancient briar]

@spice pawn I like your idea about the revealing the stealth.. We currently need a counter for a stealth to be honest.

[wispy patrol]

I understand how stats work having played actual D&D for over a decade. Tasha's caldron was added for a reason, because the longer you play a game the more inclined you are to choose for stats regardless of the cosmetic/racial vision you have for the character.

[upper sonnet]

I like the idea that the Light Spell aggros mobs to it. Being able to kite mobs away from you is pretty huge for Wizz

[spice pawn]

better yet, a sentient medieval outhouse that doubles as an OP cleric. that'll teach 'em

[wide sage]

swing a big weapon wildly 😂

[white cliff]

You and me both, I need the female cleric to sit on me.

For research purposes.

[radiant wave]

ranger can see foot prints but thats the only counter i know of and its at a cost of a perk

[wide sage]

sounds like people who stop caring about the roleplay aspect of the game in favor of minmaxing. in which case that's their choice to make that trade off

[wispy patrol]

Wizards already have a lot of utility. In fact the most utility of any class.

The light spells best use is in PvP where throwing a torch to see the enemy position would just result in them picking up the torch. The light spell just sits there and can't be removed.

[spice pawn]

in all honestly, she may lose respect for us, in that case. then we become genetic dead ends. that's never any good

[ancient briar]

I think we need more

[leaden marten]

D&D with min/maxers that are only optimizing stats and not developing their character are snoooooooooooozers.

[white cliff]

Listen I came here looking for booty.

[radiant wave]

i totally agree tho

[wide sage]

is it just me or is the ranger footprint perk bugged? they would just suddenly appear for me, seemed more confusing than useful

[white cliff]

For you Chris Hanson, or as I like to call you, Chris Handsome.

[ancient briar]

and you would sacrifice that one spell slot for a light, considering how many other spells are more useful than light?

[wispy patrol]

No, but that does not mean that light needs a buff.

[spice pawn]

outhouse casts bless. outhouse casts divine strike.

Yeah. Has a nice ring to it

[tribal cradle]

You have to be close enough no?

[radiant wave]

yeah i only used it like once and never put it on again lol

[spice pawn]

that's such a good skit. is it true that that conversation was literally based on an interview with an actual prison inmate?

[ancient briar]

I think we can fairly say if 95% wizard don't equip certain spells we may assume that there's something wrong with the spells and they need balancing?

Remember the meta is as follows: Invis, haste, fireball, magic missile. None of those spells are worth replacing.

[tribal cradle]

Or do you mean the footprints would randomly appear without anyone making said footprints

[inland pelican]

Just bumping my suggestion for dev consideration on their monk class 🙂

#d-and-d-suggestions message

[wispy patrol]

Not really. The inverse can be said, meaning the other skills are over tuned.

[spice pawn]

yeah I gravitated back to that setup after testing around. the last spell would be ignite for teamplay. only need +1 Knowledge somewhere w/ the knowledge perk

[wide sage]

Like, I would be standing in an area, and then suddenly footprints would appear infront of me. it never felt like i walked up and discovered them, it felt like they were already there and had a delay on becoming visible

[wispy patrol]

If that's your logic for buffing skills/perks then there are a lot bigger problems than the wizards light spell.

[ancient briar]

And you would rather have your fireball nerfed so you could finally equip a lightning strike?

[leaden marten]

zap and chain lightning are pretty consistent, too, but they neeeed to do something about the SLOW spell.

[tribal cradle]

if it slowed attack speed too it would be amazing

[ancient briar]

How many of you wizards tried lightning strike? and what would need to happen to other spells to actually equip lightning strike instead of any of the meta?

[leaden marten]

I wish it was AOE

[wispy patrol]

Its okay for some spells to be niche in nature.

[spice pawn]

I prefer slow over ice bolt

[leaden marten]

but it's single target, right?

[glacial bridge]

i hit a fighter with 3 lightning strikes in a fight and he didnt go down so i never used the spell again lol

[leaden marten]

I just think it's so underwhelming

[tribal cradle]

the only time I was glad I took lightning strike over fireball was when I was aiming at my feet while being chased

[ancient briar]

exactly.. but someone claims META spells are overtuned. Invisibility is I agree with that. Haste as well.

[spice pawn]

we gotta first see if there'll be any lightning element perks

[leaden marten]

When Ranger traps exist

[rancid pond]

Paralyze for lighting would be neat

[wide sage]

from my experience, players move around too much the moment they see a wizard casting a spell, and lightning strike also has a pretty short range imo.

[tribal cradle]

like an animation interrupt?

[leaden marten]

Idk, I think Wizard is in a good place. Once a Bard has Faerie Fire, we're good to go against invis

[tribal cradle]

or a straight up faceplant on the ground paralyzed

[ancient briar]

So.. is magic missile or fireball overtuned? or actuall some of the spells are just straight out garabge?

[radiant wave]

might be cool if lightning did a lil more dmg if enemies are in water

[rancid pond]

Like it freezes movement of your enemies for n seconds

[glacial bridge]

ide rather buff the bad spells. i personally dont have an issue with MM or FB performance

[tribal cradle]

Most of the spells are fine, it's the additive damage from the gear that makes the spells insanely strong

[leaden marten]

agreed

[ancient briar]

Fireball needs nerf for its blast, and should be blockable by the shield. That's one nerf that should happen

[glacial bridge]

if you block fireball, the splash and burn should still hit

[leaden marten]

Depends on the shield

[wide sage]

I think shields should be able to block spells in general, honestly

fireball splash would go through, though

[rancid pond]

You can just not stand still and move to side or behind some textures while wizard casting lol

[ancient briar]

then Lightning strike wouldn't be blockable and that would be the only thing that would be good for this spell. Mostly because it attacks from the sky.

[leaden marten]

I'm just here in the Sing-Along Bard Waiting Room

gimmeeeeeeeee

musiccccccccccc

Let me inspireeeee

Let me illuminate invis wizards and roguesssss

[wide sage]

I want necromancer that can command skeletons to interact with things remotely

[tribal cradle]

that sounds kinda like magic hand

[wide sage]

yeah. i feel like the core concept of necromancer in a game like this would be to interact with the mobs, and play with the posibilities in that. whether its buffing them, commanding them to do things remotely, or making them target specific players

[cerulean pollen]

Lightning Strike definitely needs something, its much shorter range than many of the other spells and only does slightly more damage than Ice Bolt

[wide sage]

yes, this. the delay and damage wouldnt be so bad if you could cast it from further away

[ancient briar]

I'd be fine with it if it applied stun to the target.

[cerulean pollen]

maybe give it a microstun if they want to keep it in melee-ish range like it is currently? 0.5s or 0.75s like cleric's bind

[wide sage]

I'm not in favor of hard crowd control like that

[ancient briar]

0.5s and 0.75s of CC is not hard crowd control.

[cerulean pollen]

oh uh maybe it does more damage based on how close they are to the center

[spice pawn]

I wonder if druid can be stealthy by turning into a rat or small flying bird or something

then bust out when the time is right by swapping back to human form and going bear form

[cerulean pollen]

edge of the cast radius takes least amount (lower than current dmg) and absolute center takes almost 50% more dmg than we currently have

[wide sage]

druids turning into birds around the tower? insane

[tribal cradle]

turn into rat, walk under player, turn into bear

[spice pawn]

but w/ no attack ability as a birb. just flying in the sky

[ancient briar]

imo, it is easier to land fireball than it is to land a lightning strike and when you compare damages.. fireball wins all the time.

[spice pawn]

probably a crow, if anything. like that brandon kid from game of thrones I'm thinking of the wargs or whatever. not brandon himself. that weirdo

[wide sage]

im not saying its a bad thing, just that the potential would be crazy

[night bloom]

this is true

[cerulean pollen]

yeah its hard to justify using lightning strike. honestly just reducing how long it takes for the bolt to land might fix the problem

[ancient briar]

what would need to happen outside lightning strike deals as much dmg as it is now and center deals more damage.

[cerulean pollen]

currently its 4s delay + cast time, if it was 3s or 2s delay + cast time it might not be bad

[spice pawn]

yea- if they add more water tiles (or even a water-themed map set), maybe lightning can get some turf advantage (akin to the cleric anti-undead advantage in the current crypt B2 level)

[wide sage]

I still think it'd be perfectly fine with a long range. the moment players see you casting a spell they start moving too much for the delay to allow a hit, but if it was a long range spell, it'd make a good stealth/sniper spell. cast it from hiding or through door windows

[night bloom]

I will say one thing outside of class balancing issues that I think should change is the ring enclosure time down in level 3 (hell). I cant tell you how annoying it is when you have a group intent on killing the lich / ghost king and half the room is gone. The boss fights are hard enough without being time crunched super hard as well.

maybe like, 1 minute stretched across all ring levels would help. so what is that 20 more seconds inbetween each ring enclosure

[ancient briar]

the only good use of lightning strike would be if you are followed, throw it in front of you and pray it won't hit you. 🤣

haste> run > lightning strike at the ground and the enemy may enter the circle

[graceful frost]

yes please. it feels like almost all the time you have to insta run to circle and cant rlly loot and killing bosses is so annoying cause of that

[radiant wave]

please tell me how much you all would like/hate a new monster called Phantoms that are invisible and are only visible while attacking they never attack from the same spot or they always try to get behind you ?

[cerulean pollen]

could be fun if spells like Wizard's Light Orb revealed invisible enemies

or torches or something, just need something players can do interact with them

[radiant wave]

nice might add that to my suggestion 🙂

[cerulean pollen]

do it. phantoms would add so much chaos to an already chaotic environment

[radiant wave]

yeah i know lol

[next wagon]

that will be like STALKER's blodsuckers, freaking nice and always gime a heart attack #d-and-d-suggestions message

I really don't understand why people down vote it, seems to be peevishness lol

[leaden marten]

idk, I think that's just giving Wizard too much if they continue to balance the magic system like this

[radiant wave]

i knew people would hate it why it would be a great addition to the game lol

[cerulean pollen]

if you're worried about it interacting with rogues you could make it only effect magical invis

[leaden marten]

Bard in D&D has a spell that they always take called faerie fire that illuminates the shapes of invisible figures

[cerulean pollen]

so rogues still have stealth functional

[leaden marten]

and visible

I think they should give the invis reveal spell to bards

[next wagon]

exactly they wan't a mmo lol

[cerulean pollen]

or warlocks if they add them

they always operated as the dark mirror to wizards, so if wizards have invis, it would make sense for warlocks to have anti-invis

[leaden marten]

Just judging off of stuff they've already done

It seems to follow a lot of D&D spells

[glacial bridge]

just wait until i get scorching ray and sunblast

[leaden marten]

And I don't know if Warlocks have a spell like that

but again, they could introduce something

But Faerie Fire is a super popular spell for both Bards and Druids. So I think we'll see it introduced w/ either of them.

Just my hope.

[finite tide]

@glacial bridge imo should trash can chain lightning and ice blast for these more light based skills would feel better overall imo and those skills are bad

[glacial bridge]

ide like bard to have Shout for some sonic damage. make it disorient but also make you audible to other adventurers from farther distance

[leaden marten]

For flavor, would be cool if the sound waves from the Bard's instrument illuminated the enemies enemies

[leaden marten]

This is cool

Or Minor Illusion, so you could throw your voice or mimic other classes sounds in other rooms

or the sound of battle

[finite tide]

Shout should be barb skill for sure maybe they should incorporate an extra skill just for him that would be cool @glacial bridge

[glacial bridge]

yeah Horn of Thunder would work. it just seems too high level for us to have :)

[finite tide]

Warcries could be an entire skill tree but you can use two of them and another skill that would be really cool but who knows how the skill trees come about

[radiant wave]

PSA if you edit a suggestion put everything you already put then add the new or it will replace what you had there lol

[earnest star]

voice chat

proximty

[finite tide]

Voice chat is not what the game needs it doesn’t add anything they need to look into other things first I’d like to see them try a lot of different stuff

[radiant wave]

do you all think 16 will always be the max for a game or maybe more for bigger maps down the road ?

[unborn raptor]

Floor 1 is suppose to be bigger and have more people. Will have to see though. I do hope it's above ground.

[finite tide]

I love the idea of 3 levels maybe they could make it instance based where every dungeon has different people that would allow for more player interaction imo

[radiant wave]

ahh i hope so the more ppl the more fun 😛

[glacial bridge]

@fallen umbra i really like the dynamic that my friends and I are holding several items for eachother and the isolated stashes cause that.

[fallen umbra]

Just kinda annoying no?

[unborn raptor]

I would hope, and expect, that the dungeons we see aren't all just underground catacombs and branch into other fantasy settings.

[finite tide]

@glacial bridge only problem with this is imo it feels like I get penalized for making more characters when you should be rewarded doing so somehow experience is everything in this game anyways

[fallen umbra]

My exact point

[glacial bridge]

definitely annoying, but its a great way to strike up that conversation "hey i want to do a cleric / ranger combo, I got x y z in solo games and we could go for this strat"

[finite tide]

I was super annoyed my homies didn’t try other classes

[fallen umbra]

Wow people really don't like my idea lol

[glacial bridge]

thats fair, i guess I was lucky that both my friends wanted to play 4 different classes and just try stuff

i dont hate your idea, but i feel like a lot of the "negative" things in this game actually succeed in making it more interesting

like the single blue portal out. you have to talk about who should leave and who should stay behind alone

[fallen umbra]

I played 4 of the classes and played mostly solo

[fallen umbra]

sure, but that also encourages solos. I think the game should also have quality of life changes for both players who are solo and teams

shared stash space across all your characters just makes sense

[ancient briar]

No, it doesn't

[glacial bridge]

it also creates a dynamic where I can invite a new friend, and do my best as a party member to protect him and let him extract safely. It builds camaraderie which I enjoy

[ancient briar]

I'd be fine with introducing a system where you pay for each item 50 gold per item (white) to transfer it to another character. If you are intended to transfer green item, you'd pay more.

[fallen umbra]

dude, no offense thats insanely expensive for white gear

you can buy white gear for cheaper

[ancient briar]

Well the system wouldn't be designed for poor.

[brazen plinth]

it would definitely be better in my opinion to be able to trade or be able to access your teammates stashes

[fallen umbra]

tad elitist don't you think

[ancient briar]

At the moment you can trade your stuff and transfer items with some help of your friends. So, introducing such system wouldn't really break a game as it is.

[brazen plinth]

we would eventually give eachother items we needed in the game but once we got in the actual dungeon, and it would definitely improve QOL

[fallen umbra]

why should you need friends to do that?

[glacial bridge]

We can agree to disagree, I just like the concept that if I make a Fighter, he is just a fighter who makes friends along the way who he can support.

There isnt this secret family or guild of all my characters pooling resources to eachother. I am an individual

[ancient briar]

Well, you could do that alone by having more than one account, but if you are willing to pay for one extra copy just to transfer your items, you are more welcomed to do so.

[fallen umbra]

which again you shouldn't have to do

[glacial bridge]

My brother messages me that he wants to do High roller games.

"I can't right now my rogue is poor, want to try a Barb/Wizard strat instead?"

[ancient briar]

Tell me how'd you transfer the item without a friend?

[random tapir]

someone said to add races

[fallen umbra]

the suggestion to have a shared stash space literally fixes that problem

[ancient briar]

Well shared stash is not exactly what I desire, and I don't think it will do good for a game. I don't think the game should encourage to stash your items instead of giving it to your friends.

[random tapir]

lets instead call this dark and warcraft i hope they dont add races

[brazen plinth]

shared stash across characters and friends that permit it in party 😄

[brazen plinth]

you dont think moving loot across easier is better?

you technically could already transfer loot through mutitple characters if u have a friend

[radiant wave]

guys you really dont want a invisible Phantom monster do you 😛

[glacial bridge]

I dont expect you to agree with my side. I just think that some of these inconveniences actually make the game more engaging to play

[fallen umbra]

sure but there are other ways of making the game interactive

[ancient briar]

Well, that's true that you can do that and many are doing it with friends. But if there was an option for transfering items I'd rather have that you have pay to tranfser it.

[fallen umbra]

Like voip

[glacial bridge]

voip is good

[fallen umbra]

I'm saying cut out the middle man

Think of your characters a band of adventurers who bring gold by going out on separate adventures.

[brazen plinth]

thats fair, however i feel like the costs u mentioned were unusually high. If u could trade ur friends without using cost, then the cost should be more of a convenience fee such as 5 gold pieces for white etc.

[ancient briar]

Okay, I will settle for this.. In order to put your items into a shared stash you'd need to pay for each item a ceratin amount of gold, and you would need to pay to withdraw it.

[fallen umbra]

why should people be punished for trying to have loot for multiple characters?

[ancient briar]

Why would they do it for free? transfering high end items to the character they've never played?

[gray vessel]

Tbh sharing stashes between all my characters would be so lame and uninspired

[brazen plinth]

thats fair hawky

[next wagon]

nah bro shared inventory already exist if u play with friends

[gray vessel]

I want to have items for my friends, not for myself

[glacial bridge]

If I go in as a fighter solo and some Wizard gear drops, I would just rather be excited to share that with my friend for a duos game rather than just save it for myself to do more solo stuff

[brazen plinth]

u wouldnt want a level one account with high end gear, but you also want to make it easy to transfer loot

[next wagon]

adding a proper shared slot is just to let who play solo share items too

[ancient briar]

Well, I would suggest add a cooldown for trades with the same nickname. Or make the fee higher depending on how many items and of what quality you have there.

[fallen umbra]

I play solo and it just makes things nicer but the community hates solo play ig

[brazen plinth]

but then again a cost for it definitely makes sense

[wispy patrol]

You all are making Quality of Life features sound like they ruin the core mechanics of the game...

[next wagon]

cuz I bet u don't believe an random to give ur items back to u lol

[fallen umbra]

LITERALLY

[brazen plinth]

i feel like currently playing solo is so hard. Unless ur really good haha

[glacial bridge]

DID SOLAIRE TEACH YOU GUYS NOTHING

[next wagon]

or a rogue lfao

[radiant wave]

game shouldnt be easy imo

[brazen plinth]

rogue is pretty fun haha

[ancient briar]

game should be punishing making you throw up and uninstall.

[brazen plinth]

i agree with that

[wispy patrol]

nothing about progression or QoL suggestions = easy

[fallen umbra]

Tarkov is tough af but it also has a shared stash

[brazen plinth]

but having the ability to move loot to other accounts isn't going to change the difficulty of the game 😭

[fallen umbra]

facts

[wispy patrol]

If you want a good player base and quick Queues well into the future you are going to need to cater to more than just your sweaty ball sacks

[brazen plinth]

like i want to keep a crossbow i found on one account to move it to another, but i cant!

[ancient briar]

tarkov and shared stash? never heard of it since you can only have one character 🤣

[radiant wave]

im pretty sure dev said no to shared stashes anyway

[next wagon]

me too lol

[brazen plinth]

oh did he?

[gray vessel]

That's like saying real life hates solo's going into dungeons irl. That's just how the design is, and the design has appeal

[ancient briar]

I think they want to keep it that way, so you do give your items away to friends or trade it to other players. It's the part I like about this game too, and if the public want the shared stash so badly they would need to be punished for wanting it.

[radiant wave]

pretty sure it was in the qna

[next wagon]

I can't wait to they add consumable arrows S2 lol

[fallen umbra]

This is a fantasy game my guy

[ancient briar]

I want the wizard to find the runes in dungeon to cast them instead of meditating.

[fallen umbra]

you have the scav too

[ancient briar]

who plays scav in tarkov? timmies? c'mon man, get out of that crap.

[fallen umbra]

tell me you've never played actual tarkov without telling me

[radiant wave]

lol ahh no more endless arrows 😛

[glacial bridge]

i love tarkov

[ancient briar]

what's your SR in tarkov? 20-40%? So you have to play tarkov

[fallen umbra]

55

[ancient briar]

Yeah I am not surprised you are still scavenging for items.

Although I am surprised.. 55% is enough to keep you well fed.

[fallen umbra]

bro just the way you talk I know for fact you can't extract raids

[ancient briar]

You must be sitting in bushes or something.

🤣

[fallen umbra]

okay? I snipe a lot. I play the game solo and tactically.

Why are people so one dimensional in how they perceive skill?

[ancient briar]

Yea, yea I am sure that's the main reason of your.. average scores.

But I wish we could end this subject.

[fallen umbra]

because you're losing?

[ancient briar]

How do I call a moderator?

[fallen umbra]

the average for the community is 45-49% survival

[ancient briar]

It's getting personal. I want to stop.

Jeez fuck.. I am top 20% 😮.. I just learned.

[fallen umbra]

prove it

[wispy patrol]

hawky, many of your previous arguments against other suggestions have been personal and "skill difference" in nature.

[ancient briar]

Not true. Not all of them, some of them yes.

I want fireball to be nerfed so Fighter can block it with a shield. I main Wizard so that's nerf towards me and buff towards Fighter

[fallen umbra]

can't actually have a conversation with people who share different opinions

[ancient briar]

I want wizard's invis to be removed, again nerfed towards me because I do realize that haste+invis is too overpowered..

[radiant wave]

i want a invisible monster 😛

[wispy patrol]

You are deflecting

[white cliff]

The heck happened after I left…

[glacial bridge]

deflecting.... smh

just change topics why are you trying to go after people. i literally do not care about anything thats not game-discussion related

[ancient briar]

I want buff to lightning strike because I like the spell but it's no good use in any situation and comparing it to meta spells I dont think any wizard would take lightning strike instead of any of the meta.

[gray vessel]

Honestly all characters should get a -5% speed penalty forever from extracting, until they get old and die and you give up all your stash's contents

[glacial bridge]

your stash should also be deleted when you die in a round. are we hardcore or not boys?

[ancient briar]

^ that was one of my suggestions too, but I said about having an option whether you want hardcore or not.

[glacial bridge]

lolol

[white cliff]

I think there’s a difference between difficult and un fun though.

[fallen umbra]

bro, they're joking

[white cliff]

No that was unironically a suggestion.

[next wagon]

I kind like it

[fallen umbra]

it's a fantasy adventure dungeon crawler this does not have to be realistic at all

I prefer fun and skill based gameplay for solos and groups

[glacial bridge]

my character should be born with a birth defect like bad circulation. If I get wet and dont use a campfire quick there should be CONSEQUENSES

[next wagon]

The first thing I want is an smarter AI, I cheesed a lot of bosses got a lot of items but it wasn't rewarding

[white cliff]

Oh dang that sucks, this isn’t a solo game.

[gray vessel]

Optional hardcore mode that includes better cosmetics each season

[next wagon]

bro stop, there will be people who will actually want it

[fallen umbra]

Why does it has to be hostile towards it tho?

[gray vessel]

I actually want it

[white cliff]

Plenty of ways for you to group up inside the discord though.

Don’t ask me, ask the devs.

[gray vessel]

but I'm not brave enough to make a suggestion and get downvoted to hell

[white cliff]

They’ve already stated that there won’t be a solo queue, or any buffs for solo players.

They’ve banned the topic from Reddit.

[fallen umbra]

That's fine

[white cliff]

It’s been talked about into oblivion, that and matchmaking.

[fallen umbra]

But a shared stash across all your characters is a benefit to literally everyone

[glacial bridge]

Growing a playerbase is a casual mindset. Each month the worst players should be banned until we have only the most refined adventurers

[next wagon]

My asking to limit 1 class per party 🤡

[white cliff]

Different topic.

That hurts core game mechanics.

[fallen umbra]

how does QOL changes hurt core mechanics?

[white cliff]

The whole point is limiting storage space, imagining SweatLordxxx horsing six stacks of orange gear across six different mules.

It’s a risk your loot type of game.

The limited storage is intentional.

Just like tarcov.

No unlimited loot storage for hoarding gear.

[fallen umbra]

no, you don't understand

[ancient briar]

If yo ureally wanted to .. you could have unlimited storage with current trading system

[fallen umbra]

I meant the stash space of all six characters is combined

[white cliff]

I read your suggestion, I understand.

[white cliff]

That is an insane amount of storage.

[glacial bridge]

If my barbarian is rich and my ranger is poor. maybe i should load up aim labs and earn it. thats a him problem

[fallen umbra]

okay, make it smaller then

It was an inital suggestion

[ancient briar]

I dont even understand why you want to have that shared stash

[white cliff]

Did you have a storage issue in the play test? What’s the reasoning behind this.

[fallen umbra]

Or, you could use the gear you earned already

[coarse whale]

we need nukes

[ancient briar]

I did, with gold :/ Had to start giving it away

[white cliff]

I mean convert it into candy canes.

[fallen umbra]

No, just didn't like having to transfer stuff I earned to my other characters

[white cliff]

It stores better.

[fallen umbra]

what I did

[white cliff]

They really don’t want you hoarding extra gear for every class though. Just vendor it off.

[fallen umbra]

I'm not trying to hoard gear just trying to have it accessible to my other characters without being punished for it

[white cliff]

Just play fighter I suppose.

[ancient briar]

Just trade it with a friend and him trade it back to you. Here you go, a shared stash.

[fallen umbra]

I don't understand why people are so opposed to QOL changes

[white cliff]

It’s not a QOL really, it affects how much you can store which affects gameplay.

Picture this.

[fallen umbra]

Why should you need a friend for it?

[ancient briar]

I think it'll change how people behave towards giving out good items to your friends.

[white cliff]

I’m a good player, I’m rolling with a good gear set. My storage is limited so there’s only so much I can keep. Now I can transfer items so I have twenty sets, and the snowball continues and continues and continues.

[ancient briar]

Make a suggestion. It'll have a negative likes. I tried it already

[white cliff]

Sure you can transfer that gear now, but there’s a storage disparity.

The limited storage is intentional.

[fallen umbra]

Again, I am literally cool with limited space

[white cliff]

Transferring gear causes the same problem.

[fallen umbra]

Allowing the gear you earn to be shared across characters doesn't change that

[white cliff]

Six characters of transfer space?

It absolutely does.

It would become easier to transfer.

[ancient briar]

My suggestion had a middle ground between those who don't want punishment for transferring and those who want it. - you pay for what you are transferring, and people still didn't like it.

So, my another suggestion is to give up.

[fallen umbra]

make a one character shared inventory then

[wispy patrol]

He literally suggested one page of transfer space

[fallen umbra]

Literally

[glacial bridge]

i dont want one page of transfer space though

[fallen umbra]

other btw

[ancient briar]

I could live with a shared stash for bandages and potions but that's about it.

[white cliff]

The original suggestion was “combine all six pages of space”

[glacial bridge]

logic to this argument ended 15 minutes ago. soo... i dont want it and thats that

[fallen umbra]

so, you're cool with six separate storage spaces that are essentially all shared already?

[fallen umbra]

It is a work in progress

[wispy patrol]

regardless, I would not mind that if I was playing a mage and stashing good equips i find (for all classes)... and then when I wipe I change to a different class that I have gear for on repeat.

[glacial bridge]

yes. i want my rogue to carry fighter gear for my friends fighters. i want my fighter to carry wizard gear for my friends wizards.

i do not want my x to carry gear for my y and z

[white cliff]

Sure that’s how most players would use it.

[ancient briar]

Yeah I wouldn't midn that either.. but don't you think that most of people would try to take the good stuff for themselves because they can easily transfer it to another character without penatly?

[wispy patrol]

Sure, that's fine. Either way its equipment sink

Its loot that isn't in the game

[fallen umbra]

are you afraid people won't share with you?

[white cliff]

I’m afraid of what it does to game balance.

[ancient briar]

^

[white cliff]

It enables strong players to horde gear.

[fallen umbra]

This game is already not balanced

[fallen umbra]

Are you not a strong player?

[white cliff]

Sure, but what you’re suggesting would make it worse.

[wispy patrol]

There are really only three types of people when it comes to shared storage:

1. people who will switch classes
2. people who will have gear for their friends
3. people who enjoy trading on the market almost more than playing the game

[white cliff]

I am, but why would I want to make the game only fun for myself?

[ancient briar]

So let's say they add a shared stash.. Does that mean I suddenly have 5 additional pages of storage? Well yes, because I put into shared stash, and then I withdraw it to the random level 1 character that is hoarding my gear.

This is where your concept goes.

[white cliff]

Beyond being a good player, I’m also an animator and 3D modeler, I breathe this stuff. I like to discuss game balance and design.

I don’t want what would cause an imbalance.

[wispy patrol]

I would assume on full release they will limit character slots in some fashion. Or only allow you to create one of each character/

[ancient briar]

Don't you think they'll add a way to purchase those slots?

[fallen umbra]

What I meant is that every character shares the same stash space however large or small you want it

[ancient briar]

for $ perhaps?

[ancient briar]

Do you realize it's not going to work?

[white cliff]

I think a single storage across all characters might work, but then it would make the limited storage issue worse because I’m trying to balance six classes and one storage.

[fallen umbra]

You do realize it would work?

[fallen umbra]

make it two or something and yeah

[white cliff]

Unless you’re suggesting a separate page, and then we revolve back around the hoarding gear problem.

[fallen umbra]

no I meant every character same page

[wispy patrol]

Sure, that and cosmetics. regardless those are both things I don't mind people buying as its not an actually tangible advantage.

1. You still have to get out with the gear alive to be able to store it
2. The system is already in place, just with extra steps (ei: second account or friends)

[white cliff]

But even another page, for me to keep hypothetically eight full sets of gear is crazy.

[white cliff]

Okay, but then I’m trying to fit six different gear sets on one page. Storage problem.

[glacial bridge]

so now all 6 of my characters have to share 2 total stash tabs because you want to trade gear between your toons :/

[wispy patrol]

Can you explain to me why hoarding gear = problem?

[ancient briar]

Yes I am aware of the trading "abuse". but both charcaters pay the fee.

[fallen umbra]

you have to have space for money, meds, and everything else

[fallen umbra]

yes, yall have some issue with the suggestion of six and the suggestion of two and the suggestion you could give your own gear to another character without penalty even though you yourself collected it

It's insane

[white cliff]

Sure, the game is designed to have limited space right. If I have a good set my chances of winning are statistically higher meaning I can collect more gear and gold. Eventually I’ll reach a limit on what I collect and eventually wipe. Maybe my storage will go completely empty say for my gold. With the extra space you’re know enabling better and well equipped players to bypass that and to horde sets to keep snowballing with.

[wispy patrol]

Yeah that's a gold sink. So are you saying if there was a gold sink involved in using a shared storage it would be fine?

[fallen umbra]

I am not suggesting anything crazy

[glacial bridge]

i dont want to give gear to my other characters. you are failing to convince me that i should want to

[next wagon]

What do u guys think of adding random effect (heal, poison,slow,blind,invis) pots with random colours every run but same in ur stash, and trow able pots? So that way u will need to figure out which one is which or u will drink liquid fire or trow prot in the enemies

[ancient briar]

No, it'd create a same issue.

[white cliff]

It’s not a crazy idea, but I don’t think it works.

[fallen umbra]

because you only want to play with friends which is fine but you're opposed for the rest of the community to have a QOL change

[ancient briar]

They should probably implement an increased fee for trading high end gear for 0 gold. So, if both players agree, they'd need to pay 1000 gold each.. I know I know.. too hardcore for you :/

[white cliff]

I keep gear for my friends, eventually I had to stop doing that because of storage issues. Im not advocating for more space though.

[glacial bridge]

i do care more about my friends than the QOL of the solo-only players. cant deny that

[white cliff]

And the Devs would agree.

They’ve stated there’s no solo queue, no solo buffs etc.

[fallen umbra]

I'm not advocating for more space either

[white cliff]

But this isn’t about solo play.

[wispy patrol]

So in your philosophy of this game's core mechanics. You believe it should always be possible to fully wipe and be to the point that all a character has to its name is the starting equipment?

[inland pelican]

Just bumping my suggestion one last time hoping devs look at and consider my monk class ideas for their concept

#d-and-d-suggestions message

[glacial bridge]

yes.

[fallen umbra]

okay? it literally also makes it easier for groups

[white cliff]

Yes.

I think that’s the games philosophy for having limited storage.

[glacial bridge]

sometimes you dont appreciate what you had until you have lost it all. Extraction games excel at that

[ancient briar]

I am in favor of any class, but it's up to devs decide what should that class do or have. I liked the idea though. Didn't read about the abilities or any other stuff that you wrote about.

[fallen umbra]

You can still lose all your loot across all your characters

[gray vessel]

An example of why QOL can be bad:

Having infinite storage would be pretty QOL, never having to worry about storage space issues.

[glacial bridge]

theres a reason Extraction games do a full wipe every 3 months

[white cliff]

I’ve had sprees where I haven’t died for two days, which happened twice. Imagine the gear I could have collected in that time though.

[inland pelican]

They announced they would be working on the class, just throwing my thoughts in the ring for things that could work

[white cliff]

And then how hard it would be for me to lose that much gear.

[wispy patrol]

@glacial bridge @white cliff I'm curious then. Where would you two like to see any sort of account/character progression? Or is the concept of an permanent or semi-permanent progression something you are fundamentally against, if so why?

[fallen umbra]

I am not suggesting such a wild change though

[glacial bridge]

Talent trees, perks, dungeon progression (lich, centaur, etc.)

[fallen umbra]

Yeah? But you earned that gear?

[white cliff]

Sure by why should a less skilled player be punished for my storage?

[gray vessel]

I think you are tbh

[fallen umbra]

The game will have wipe cycles too

[white cliff]

It depends.

Give me an example.

[fallen umbra]

They are given the literal same benifit

[fallen umbra]

Why?

[ancient briar]

I think as long as they don't add traders similar to tarkov they won't have the need for it. The game itself wipes the items (It has a gold sink, and items sink and limited storage and if they nerf the trading system that's one more way to not do wipes)

[wispy patrol]

talent tree and perks are all things that lead to end game potential/content. lich/centaur are trophies/achievements. I don't know if either could be considered actual end game progression.

[glacial bridge]

i mean... this is a pvp game my end-game is going to be memorable moments. but the stash argument is irrelevant to that

[gray vessel]

It's a significant change to how you can store items, being able to instantly teleport gear from one individual character to the other for free!?

[fallen umbra]

You're kinda right but I'm pretty sure traders are confirmed

[fallen umbra]

Significant but not insanely out of reason

[ancient briar]

Depends on what they'll carry. I hope it won't be anything good. I like the idea that you can purchase only basic stuff and everything better than that needs to be found in dungeon.

[fallen umbra]

They might carry the same stuff they have now which I think is fair

[white cliff]

There’s a difference in skill level between somebody who’s been playing for a while and somebody who hasn’t of course. Their ability to horde greens doesn’t outmatch my ability to horde way better gear.

[shrewd quest]

I think having a clan would be cool, that way you can always have a group of players to be able to group up with in your clan

[white cliff]

Discord servers fill that role honestly.

[fallen umbra]

They'll learn and get better

[shrewd quest]

Atleast a clan tag to show off and get interest though

[gray vessel]

how is it any more out of reach than going one step further and having infinite storage? I could argue that its YOUR gear that you earned by extracting, why should you ever have storage problems?

[fallen umbra]

Like tarkov gear matters only to a certain point

[wispy patrol]

Part of the reason its an important question is it most likely will be what ties into the monetization for this game. And as a live service game it will need some sort of live monetization model.

In the game's current state there is not much in way of monetization options. Even cosmetics for weapons can affect the fidelity of a PvP experience.

[white cliff]

Different games though.

End game DnD comes down to spacing and pure stat checking.

[fallen umbra]

You're slippery sloping my argument man

[white cliff]

That’s why people have a problem with rogues.

The gear creep on rogue is insane.

[ancient briar]

Tarkov gear matters only to the point where you unlock all traders to level 4 and have sufficient amount of funds. Later it's a CoD

[white cliff]

Gear in this game compared to tarcov is astronomically different.

[fallen umbra]

fair

[ancient briar]

^ I agree

[wispy patrol]

I've made several suggestions and arguments for my own and other people's suggestions. None of which you agreed with. So I'm now asking you for an idea.

[gray vessel]

I don't even know how to follow that

[white cliff]

I mean I agree with the current alleging and talent tree.

That’s permanent I suppose.

[fallen umbra]

Maybe that should change? If you want less of a gap between top tier gear and players and more casual players.

[white cliff]

I’m fine with visuals as well.

Cosmetics in any capacity.

[fallen umbra]

You can't? You tried to mischaracterize what I was arguing about.

[fallen umbra]

Happy to see that

[glacial bridge]

Okay. if someone just plays their main, gets rich and fills up their stash, then they wont need to put anywhere near as much effort into their alts. they can just collect a spellpower gear set, throw it on their wizard, and decide if that was fun or not.

Isolating each characters progression is more content for players to consume which keeps them engaged to the video game for longer. Replayability and keeping a playerbase will help keep the game healthy for incoming players they can monetize off.

The current system would have a more positive result for the devs pockets.

[fallen umbra]

as long as it isn't an inherent advantage

[wispy patrol]

That's not progression on an account or character basis. that's permanent as you illustrated.

If cosmetics if the progression account progression system. Then I'm assuming it would be through some sort of seasonal pass?

[white cliff]

Yeah, I’m just listing permanent things I’d be okay with them adding.

I think the loop is about wiping though.

[fallen umbra]

I would play each class significantly more if I had good gear for them when I hit lv 20

[white cliff]

I think permanent things muddy the design.

We just have a fundamental disagreement on what the game should be.

And it for neither of us to decide.

[glacial bridge]

cool. my friends would play the game more if I was excited to do a team comp with them instead of just closing discord and queueing solos.

[wispy patrol]

That's a great argument. I can agree with that. But by your same argument gear is only part of the progression of a character and their skill tree and perks make up the rest which is still found by trying a new class.

I do find your argument solid. But it doesn't have anything to do with monetization.

[white cliff]

Though we can discuss it all we like.

[fallen umbra]

I got outweighed by the community so I'll say I was wrong

[wispy patrol]

This is also how I feel. I would be more likely to play something besides my main.

[glacial bridge]

I dont care about monetization. You put me on the spot and I just threw out some words lmao.

[white cliff]

I think you’ll find that more common than not, the game has rooted baseline supporters.

Who differ with the newcomers who think the game is brutal.

[fallen umbra]

If you're not excited that's your issue my guy. Or only want to run solos too.

[white cliff]

It’s an extract looter they’re not very mainstream games.

[fallen umbra]

I like both aspects

[white cliff]

They never have been.

[wispy patrol]

You do though. Because you care about the game and want it to be around for awhile with a successful playerbase.

[fallen umbra]

I don't think the game is brutal at all

Just things could be refined to make it more fun

[glacial bridge]

Thats why my argument was directly about player retention

[white cliff]

Sure but they’re going to disagree with anything that makes the game easier in any capacity.

[ancient briar]

have you ever died with a good, really good gear that you will never find again?

[white cliff]

They can see how something like that alters the vision.

[fallen umbra]

sure? I deserved to lose it

[ancient briar]

Is it not punishing enough for the mistake you made? 😄

[wispy patrol]

Looters are very mainstream. PvP looters are the niche part of it, but it seems to be a growing genre.

[white cliff]

Extract looters.

[ancient briar]

I mean.. I don't know about what brutality you spoke about.. the most brutal would be death = deletion of your character.
And current state is somewhere in the mild brutality

[white cliff]

I’m talking tarcov, hunt showdown.

Cycle.

[fallen umbra]

It's fair

[wispy patrol]

From a business perspective retention is only a good statistic if paired with new blood.

[fallen umbra]

agreed

[ancient briar]

but i'd say the brutality of this game increases with the rarer gear.

[wispy patrol]

We said the same thing. There are no PvE looters that are extract looters.

[glacial bridge]

the entire basis of my side was to play Co-Op and why isolated stashes are better for multiplayer

[white cliff]

I’d say both tarcov and hunt fit the genre.

No?

[fallen umbra]

Like all extraction based games

[fallen umbra]

yup

[wispy patrol]

Your best argument was actually that it added more replayability by keeping gear separate as a solo-player. None of your arguments actually made a difference to the integrity of the multiplayer experience.

[tribal cradle]

Is this an argument about making DnD coop?

[white cliff]

You weren’t convinced by the gear hoarding argument?

And skill variance between players.

[white cliff]

Storage suggestion.

[fallen umbra]

started as an argument for being able to share and store your characters gear together

[wispy patrol]

If I remember your gear hoarding argument was that it promotes snowballing.

But the current meta is just gold hoarding which has the exact same effect, promoting snowballing. (without ever having to switch classes)

[glacial bridge]

its about whether you should share items between your characters.

I was saying that If I am playing a fighter and some wizard pants drop, I would rather post in my irl friends group chat that i found a pair of good wizard pants. My friend can read that, think about Fighter/Wizard team-comp strategies, and get excited for our next gaming session.

They would rather be able to give it to their wizard to play more solos games on an alt.

We are never going to agree, this entire thread is pointless :)

[white cliff]

This entire channel is for pointless discussion.

😂

[tribal cradle]

This channel is just for dopamine that you get when you have people agree with your take on the game