suggestion-discussion

[severe cedar]

if durability comes into it, 2h's probably break shields?

[wary shell]

you could just let every weapon have a diverse moveset with fast and slow options

thats a lot of work mind you

[craggy coyote]

or just make them come down for a bit, kinda like axes in minecraft (disgusting to mention minecraft ik)

[soft relic]

They could increase move speed with weapons out to make dodging harder compared to what it is now, and make blocking something like a war maul reduce damage taken, but not nullify it.

It's actually dumb that I can block a war maul with a buckler and take no damage, haha

[inland path]

other than stupidly forgiving block hotboxes and mordhaus stupid accel system, i dont see what would be so bad about putting some aspects of that combat into dnd, at least to make blocking somewhat useful

[craggy coyote]

some 2 handers were actually really good though

[severe cedar]

folks tended to prefer the straight overhead swing 2h weapons (i guess for pve reasons), but the side swinging 2h sword was difficult to dodge fort he punchy cleric

[craggy coyote]

all of the polearms, and the longsword were great

[soft relic]

Spear was amazing

[topaz blade]

Spear best

[subtle iris]

No i mean we liturally learning to drag in this game because there is no turn cap

[subtle iris]

Real shit

[craggy coyote]

spear was borderline OP, super consistent

[subtle iris]

It can bypass block also

[craggy coyote]

very realistic though if we talking history

[topaz blade]

Blue +5 true, +4 move speed spear killed so many peeps.

[wary shell]

Felling Axe is the best two hander in the game

[inland path]

if we talking history, shields shouldnt be useless

[craggy coyote]

I mean kinda, but only because it was the best barb weapon for one-shotting

[subtle iris]

Yeah, but ya need it with agility build

[craggy coyote]

and speeeeed

speeeeeeeeeed barb

[soft relic]

Shields are currently not that great, because your move speed gets so slow with one out that you will NEVER keep up with your opponent in PvP

[azure sandal]

speed doesn't matter when you're being triple shotted then shotgunned up the ass by a ranger

[craggy coyote]

yeah move speed should be the primary balance dial

like if XYZ is weak, make it faster

[subtle iris]

And the worst thing, they give ranger the ability to wield it
2 historical things that everyone in the medieval battle used effectively, in 1 class

[craggy coyote]

legit

[inland path]

there should be footwork involved but this speed meta is getting ridiculous

[soft relic]

It does because with the shield out you will never catch the ranger. You can start a swing on one, and he can just backpedal faster than you can keep up and shoot you again.

[craggy coyote]

ironically though rogue is so feast-or-famine even though it's super fast

[soft relic]

Speed in this game is everything

[severe cedar]

the speed thing is a bit silly ~ it shouldnt be a better idea to go naked

[subtle iris]

That if ranger actually had the money to buy those healing potions, otherwise, one of 2

[azure sandal]

I played ranger to lvl 20 and got top 100 for it, speed was not saving you

[craggy coyote]

probably just make armor reduce speed a little bit less, buff the speed on most shoes

[soft relic]

No, but it helped even a tiny bit. More than armor did

[craggy coyote]

and definitely reduce weapon speed by a ton

or rather, increase it

reduce the penalty

[soft relic]

Ranger was super overtuned. Bows shouldn't be hitting harder than 2 handed weapons from across rooms.

[azure sandal]

By the time a melee class got to me I just pull out the shotgun (multishot) and free kills.

[soft relic]

Rogues shouldn't have been 2 shotting plate wearers, either. Damage just scaled too heavily with gear.

[subtle iris]

Man, ya've never heard of the heavy crossbow right?

[severe cedar]

everyone talk about long bows asif they didnt dominate in medieval war

[soft relic]

They didn't against plate.

[craggy coyote]

well they did

[soft relic]

But in this game? The bows don't care if you wear plate.

[craggy coyote]

but that shouldn't be how it works in the game

that's anti-fun

[azure sandal]

Yeah with my build at the end of the test, I was one shotting rogues and clerics.

[subtle iris]

Chainmail, yes, plate, not even the slightly chance

[craggy coyote]

besides, IRL you shouldn't be able to hold an arrow in a bow for more than 2 or 3 seconds

[azure sandal]

I was doing 140 to head

[soft relic]

Yeah, it turned into a 1 shot fest. If I hit the ranger with a sneak attack I won, if he hit me, he won.

[severe cedar]

pretty sure some of those 1000lb xbows would pierce plate

[soft relic]

I am talking longbow and recurve in this game. Crossbows are balanced by slow fire rate

[craggy coyote]

the heavy crossbow was kinda weak except for oneshot cheese

[subtle iris]

Tbh, they put chainmail into plate kind armour
Also, heavy crossbow do be joke in this game

[craggy coyote]

I think all ranged weapons should be balanced by ammo count, limit the number of arrows you bring into a dungeon

[subtle iris]

Like at least the weapon should have some bypass plate armor stat

[craggy coyote]

and deal a bit less damage than a two-hander

[topaz blade]

Heavy crossbow was good with high rolls. Blue and above. But garbage below.

[soft relic]

Bows should be a poke or kite weapon. Not a mass damage weapon.

[craggy coyote]

weapon damage was definitely way too high-scaling with level, armor was kinda weak, and speed mattered way more than the ability to block

[subtle iris]

Yeah, but in any situation, bringing a sword or spear with them always

[soft relic]

You see a guy in plate? Poke him to half health while he approaches and finish him with melee while he's weakened, or kite him. Not 2 shot him.

[severe cedar]

google tells me that english longbows with the right arrow and a skilled user, could pierce plate

[craggy coyote]

okay but a dungeon is the definition of non-ideal circumstances

[soft relic]

Unlikely. There are tests of longbows on armor remakes that couldn't pierce plate even at close range.

It would have to find a crack in the armor. Not pierce the plate.

[subtle iris]

Have you try searching for "How long it takes to train an english longbowman?" and "How long it takes to train a crossbowman?"

[craggy coyote]

armor should be way stronger

shields should be a teensy bit easier to use

[severe cedar]

yeah a skilled user...
but the ranger would be as much of an expert at his craft as any other class is theirs

this isnt just some guy with a bow

[craggy coyote]

just make the hitbox a bit more generous and improve the speed while blocking by a lot

[craggy coyote]

to be fair, he's not a proper english longbowman, probably more of a hunter

so he's good but not "dedicated his entire life to using massive warbows" good

[subtle iris]

Not bad suggestion, but ya also need to buff barbarian, or at least give him a way to bypass shield

[craggy coyote]

barb is strong with good gear and a cleric but he takes way too much damage

[winter nova]

my suggestion is to turn the servers back online

[craggy coyote]

clearly, we need more data

not enough time to make educated decisions on balance

[subtle iris]

Yeah, he mostly go for magical's deflection build, but, a wizard could one-shot him anyway 💀

[severe cedar]

maybe they could make the ranger have to do a hunters mark type ability in order to be pening the armours.. slow down his murder-ness a little without making it too weak to use

[craggy coyote]

hunter's mark would be awesome.

nerf all bows by a little, but add hunter's mark

channeled spell, pick a target, +10 damage against the target for like, 10 seconds or so

[subtle iris]

Also give some true physical damage to the crossbow, but nerf a bit in it's power

[thorny canyon]

release it again

[severe cedar]

or buff armour vs missiles more, but then let this ability negate some of that

[craggy coyote]

I think crossbow is fine tbh, heavy crossbow just needs an overall damage buff though, should deal like 50 at base

the thing is a one-shot wonder in a fight, should be a little bit OP for that

[subtle iris]

Well, how about 48 base damage and 2 base true physical damage

[craggy coyote]

true physical damage is a little bit of a spiral

[severe cedar]

if you get a nice head eyes with the xbow, it kinda should put someone down

[subtle iris]

Well it bypass armor, so there is no point not using that stat

[craggy coyote]

idk, one shots from across the map is a slippery slope

one-shots should be limited as much as possible, only in melee with a ton of setup if at all

[subtle iris]

Man, ya clearly have never heard of the terrain bug

[craggy coyote]

that's a bug

[subtle iris]

Yep

But, more data for us

[craggy coyote]

one-shotting a fighter in plate armor from down the hallway shouldn't be a feature

[severe cedar]

ranger could also get a nice hamstring shot ability 😅

[subtle iris]

So it's actually not that bad, but still, bad

[craggy coyote]

heavy crossbow should be mitigated by armor like everything else. at best, add the true damage to the crossbow expert skill or smth

[subtle iris]

Also, at least make an active skill for crossbow, like increase agility or smth

[craggy coyote]

maybe instant reload?

[subtle iris]

Man, i said it before, 2 true physical damage

[craggy coyote]

or like, a really fast reload in combat

get a second shot in

[subtle iris]

Nope, too op

[subtle iris]

Nah, agility

[severe cedar]

thats what long bow is for, but everyone cries about it

[subtle iris]

No more

[craggy coyote]

sheer agi is pretty boring though, and would probably just be picked with longbow

at that point you might as well just buff the crossbow damage straight

[subtle iris]

Increase agility is also increase the move speed man
Faster in making distant to have time for reloading

[severe cedar]

does agil also give armour ~ like dex save in dnd

[subtle iris]

Well, we got the faster projectile skill, but it's useless tbh

[subtle iris]

Agility = increase move speed + increase interact speed

[craggy coyote]

it just doesn't make sense that using crossbows can let you instantly get agi though, it should be something that just makes reloading faster

[craggy coyote]

also attack speed with melee weapons iirc

[severe cedar]

maybe it could also give armour to represent dodge, perhaps when wearing leather or cloth only

[subtle iris]

Yep

[craggy coyote]

nah we don't want agi meta, the dodge is represented by movespeed

you dodge in this game by, y'know, actually dodging

[subtle iris]

Idk, we don't have much space to dodge in dungeon tbh

[craggy coyote]

i mean, we do, but it shouldn't give armor

[severe cedar]

thats just how dnd balance plate vs leather users

[craggy coyote]

we don't need dodge mechanics in this game

that's an abstraction in dungeons and dragons

[subtle iris]

Ik, but the instant reload is op, and everyone can agree with it, if the crossbow damage got buffed

[craggy coyote]

in this game, leather is better because of movespeed i.e. dodge

[craggy coyote]

maybe not instant

[subtle iris]

Agree

[craggy coyote]

but just faster

[severe cedar]

but we already spoke about how movepseed meta isnt good cus of how it does 2h dirty

[craggy coyote]

like a double speed reload or smth

[subtle iris]

Just make it like bow, faster shoot and reload

[craggy coyote]

so should agi not give movespeed and instead make you tank better?

[subtle iris]

Yeah, so we will have about 3 times the speed (with perk) of reload it normal (without perk)

[craggy coyote]

maybe like a period where you can reload faster, so like 10 secs where you can reload in half the time (i.e. shoot twice as fast)

[subtle iris]

Nope, that 50% perk will make it 3

[craggy coyote]

that doesn't seem that bad tho

you already said crossbow ranger is shite

and reload is the main issue there it seems

not speed

[subtle iris]

3 second for a heavy crossbow, think about how fast those animations are

[soft relic]

Tbh... when fighting geared opponents, the difference between a regal gambeson and a fine curaiss was non-existent. Both died in 2 hits, but regal gambeson let you move faster. Agility giving armor instead of move speed would be a strict nerf to agility.

[craggy coyote]

so one second reload for like, 5 secs?

doesn't seem too strong, especially since a heavy crossbow has to stand still

[subtle iris]

Nope, 3.33 second reloading (crossbow pro + your suggest active skill)

And +5 physical damage

[craggy coyote]

that sounds balance

[coral stump]

https://tenor.com/view/me-checking-out-yo-man-gif-26422326

[craggy coyote]

three extra shots, kinda like triple shot, but much worse because triple shot on a crossbow would be ridiculous

[severe cedar]

😅 🤷‍♂️ was just an idea
some kind of middle ground could probably work well overall i kinda feel armour isnt as good as it should be,
there shouldnt really be any situation where throwing your gear on the ground is better than using it... but naked priest was kinda sick lol

[coral stump]

https://tenor.com/view/shake-it-butt-booty-hot-sexy-gif-12353015

[subtle iris]

Or, you know, replace that crossbow with an arbalest

[soft relic]

Honestly, naked rogue was better than low end greens/blues, too.

[craggy coyote]

armor should have a MUCH lower movement reduction

really just reduce movement reductions on everything, across the board

[subtle iris]

Like, seriously those heavy crossbow with robe reloading system doesn't go well in tight alley

An arbalest would be a better option

[craggy coyote]

don't make anything faster at base, but reduce the gap between an armored fighter with weapons out and a naked cleric

[meager isle]

how do you implement warlock?

same as wizard but replenish spell slots by sacrificing hp?

[craggy coyote]

debuffer

[meager isle]

1 patron perk slot so you cant mix and match and you can only pick one

and then generic perks like other classes

[subtle iris]

monk with quarterstaff that can block

[craggy coyote]

literally warlock should just be a debuff-focused class

[severe cedar]

warlock or a shadow cleric

[next wagon]

I agree it's just a normal full plate and make u fell like ur wearing catarina armour

[meager isle]

thats not what they are in d&d

[craggy coyote]

what they are in d&d 5e is an eldritch blast bot

[meager isle]

yep

[subtle iris]

Well, it's the most logical choice

[severe cedar]

warlocks just have different spell pool and spell memory mechanics to wizards in dnd

[craggy coyote]

which could be cool ig, an unlimited use, channeled spell that is hitscan and deals solid damage that scales with will

[meager isle]

there are so many possibilities i dont think we have only 1 logical choice

[meager isle]

i was thinking hitscan but it would break the laws of the game

[subtle iris]

Most logical, not only logical

[craggy coyote]

true, and open the game to aimbot issues

[meager isle]

fast moving projectile with no dropoff

is less toxic

than hitscan

[craggy coyote]

yeah, that'd work

[meager isle]

then you could have eldritch spear perk where all your EBs have mega range

[craggy coyote]

overall I think spells should scale more

they should be weaker early game but better later game

[meager isle]

well for wizard it's dangerous since they have a lot of utility and a wide array of shit to pick from

[severe cedar]

spells could easily take over the game if they did all the casting that dnd offers

[craggy coyote]

especially cleric buffs, rn the scaling on those is shite

[next wagon]

I'm casually working on a medieval game so I went deep on this armour thing and the weight its like 47lb/22kg distributed all over ur body, and u can still run fast and have no movement issues

[craggy coyote]

like, a cleric with no gear should buff me worse than a cleric with lots of casting buffs

[meager isle]

warlocks in this game should totally have the option to darkness+devil sight

feels really fitting for a game like this

[craggy coyote]

that could be cool, having darkvision as a spell effect

[subtle iris]

Too bad, most of those cleric are scav clerics

[meager isle]

not darkvision

[craggy coyote]

so like, a buff that gives you nightvision goggles

[craggy coyote]

well, that would be the best equivalent imo

[meager isle]

devil sight is another thing that allows you to see inside magical darkness, darkvision is just "see in the dark"

so a warlock would:

[craggy coyote]

we shouldn't make it exactly copy and pasted from 5e because it's a different thing

[next wagon]

if they add dark vision they should make it be a potion, so anyone can access it

[craggy coyote]

having a spell that creates a dark field would also be cool to pair with it, but could easily become way too annoying

[severe cedar]

cant copy dnd exactly too much, or you will cross over from generic fantasy into copyright infringement 😛

[craggy coyote]

idk I think putting it on a class makes it more interesting

with potions then it would be the go-to choice for everything, especially higher levels

since there'd be barely any opportunity cost

[next wagon]

u have a point

what if they make a shrine?

for dark vision

[meager isle]

cast darkness, giving their position away because you can see this really obvious big cloud of black/purple smoke, at that point, the enemy can guess the warlock could be hidden in there trying to snipe people with EB, so you as an enemy KNOW that you should be nowhere near warlock darkness, and warlocks can use it as a mind game to trick/scare people, and if someone actually decides to push inside darkness, if warlocks have devil sight they can keep people at bay

would just create interesting mind games i think

and trying to guess if warlock has devil sight or hasnt

[severe cedar]

if you get warlock darkness, wiz should get cloudkill 😂

[next wagon]

yo talking about smoke, u guys think the rogue smoke should be buffed? It is a crap

like making it spread to all 1 room

[meager isle]

it should just be changed to something else imo

[next wagon]

or making it poison so u can't across

[craggy coyote]

you should be able to throw it

[meager isle]

it's so useless that they could just replace it with "rogues can now deploy ranger traps" and people would be ok with it

[next wagon]

that could work

[craggy coyote]

just putting it at your feet makes it super hard to use

if you could put it somewhere else then it might be bettter

more flexible

[meager isle]

lmao but cloudkill does damage

[next wagon]

I agree

[severe cedar]

lol yeah would decimate these corridors

[craggy coyote]

cloudkill could just be zombie burps

also, rogues should be able to use a ranged weapon of some kind

add like a smaller crossbow that they can use

[severe cedar]

slings might be a good all class missile

[craggy coyote]

but make them shite, not actually as OP as they are in real life

[meager isle]

well even tho shit shouldnt be copied from d&d directly, i still believe warlocks will be sick if they had a singular "patron" perk slot to pick from, while still able to pick other normal generic perks (but weaker than other class perks because patron will give so much)

[next wagon]

I think increase initial throw able daggers stack to 6 will already work

[craggy coyote]

idk just having normal perks seems better imo

[meager isle]

would differentiate the class more from wizard imo

imo warlock should be singularly focused on one thing and can "flex" the needed role based on the patron

[severe cedar]

druid might be a better casting class to add than warlock

[meager isle]

your party needs healing but u dont have cleric to 20? play warlock with celestial perk

[craggy coyote]

honestly I prefer having warlock as a debuffer though

that would be the most unique thing

[meager isle]

what kind of debuffs are we talking tho

deafness/blindness?

or like

25% slow

[craggy coyote]

slow seems like the go-to

[next wagon]

I saw some guys talking about replacing the circle safe zone for something else or just removing it, what do u guys think?

[craggy coyote]

maybe damage vulnerability, no healing

[meager isle]

it's confirmed that druids will be focused on shapeshifting

[craggy coyote]

shapeshifting focused druid seems balanced, but yeah, no casting

casting+shapeshifting would be way too many tools

each class shouldn't be too overloaded

this isn't D&D

[severe cedar]

yeah druids can do everything lol
heals, crowd control and debuffs,
buffs,
shape shifts
...you name it

[craggy coyote]

right, druid in this game shouldn't work like that

[severe cedar]

unless u limit it with the perk and skills so you do one of those things

[craggy coyote]

overall, I think wizard needs to have his spell uses nerfed, fireball/magic missile shouldn't be so spammable

[severe cedar]

id like to see wiz get stuff like mirror image and blurr

[craggy coyote]

all spells should scale more with gear overall, so make it weaker when you first get them, but a good bit stronger when you get better gear

[craggy coyote]

haste and invis are already much better than either of those and easier to implement

remember, this isn't d&d, we don't have abstractions like Armor Class

[severe cedar]

xD misty step wiz

[craggy coyote]

a teleport spell would be cool but stupid busted

right now, casters are almost gear agnostic (except clerics needing gear in order to have access to rez) while other classes need good gear to be effective

[severe cedar]

ways to interupt cast would help. is it just the barb that can do that?

[craggy coyote]

but as far as I know, a wizard with a bunch of gear does the same damage as a wizard with jack shit

[severe cedar]

dont think i tried it, but throwing daggers and axes could be a nice interupt

[craggy coyote]

all classes can

it's called, killing the caster

XD

[next wagon]

I couldn't agree more, early I was discussing about how much broken is to have a 3 mage/ranger party cuz my party been slain be a meteor rain of 9 fireballs, and I don't think limiting 1 class per party is the solution, and think the mage damage is good to the class cuz it really should be OP. SO this could be the perfect solution

[craggy coyote]

I think having less uses would also make Meditate more important

[severe cedar]

i honestly think it would be fine as is, if you had an oportunity to interupt him casting

[next wagon]

it will be great too

[craggy coyote]

rn the wizard gameplay is to avoid fighting until it's close to the end, then nuke a 3-man with all of your spells at the last second

[next wagon]

but will make then unable to kill anyone that rush them

[craggy coyote]

I think it's fine as is, interrupting spellcasting is unnecessary when you can just kill him

[unique hazel]

I personally think stacks of all the same class is not good for the game but I understand that's likely not going to be something that's restricted.

[craggy coyote]

maybe increasing the casting time might be a good idea?

[severe cedar]

something thats not guaranteed... a missile weapon hit should probably break concentration (it may already do so... i didnt try)

[craggy coyote]

nah man, that would buff ranger to epic proportions

imagine your cleric trying to heal you but gets his pinky toe hit by a ranger

[severe cedar]

but you can pre cast and hold

[next wagon]

maybe it could work for the fireball, cuz the magic missile is a close combat spell so it need to be a little bit faster or will be useless

[severe cedar]

then you make some things instant, and some concentration based

[craggy coyote]

yeah, I meant for chain lightning and fireball in particular

[next wagon]

so it could work too

[craggy coyote]

idk tbh the game is fine for the most part

i mostly have nitpicks

it's like tiny things, and at higher levels things break down more

[severe cedar]

yeah i didnt really feel like anything is super op.
just felt weird that taking my clothes off was better than not

[craggy coyote]

I mean, at higher levels it's all about running around naked which is weird

[next wagon]

for me too I just want they keep working on more content and fix the bugs

[craggy coyote]

The only balancing thing they should work on is to make speed reductions smaller across the board

like literally everything that reduces speed should reduce it by a little bit less, especially equipment and blocking

Otherwise, the game is more-or-less perfect.

[soft relic]

Damage scaling needs lowered as well. Badly.

[craggy coyote]

To be fair that's also a good shout

[next wagon]

especially true damage

[craggy coyote]

Like, gear with extra damage should be removed altogether, replace it with other, more interesting random stuff

right now, high levels are mostly spent trading for gear with +damage or +speed

[soft relic]

Eh. Make it so only gloves, weapons and jewelry can roll damage, and not 2 different damage stats on the same piece.

[jagged cedar]

poison potions that apply to a weapon

[craggy coyote]

That's a good middle ground.

[soft relic]

i.e. no +weapon damage and +additional physical on the same piece

[craggy coyote]

You'd certainly know more than me tbh

[next wagon]

I think if they make true dmg appear only on blue or rarer gear and reduce the max stat per gear to 3 it will be already great

[next wagon]

cuz if u get the max in all gears ur max true will be 33 but they should make it hard to appear in a rerrol

[next wagon]

that will be awesome too

[craggy coyote]

@hollow smelt I think haste should stay on Wizard. Wizard should also be an effective support class, and Haste is one of the things that keeps them from being a fireball bot.

[hollow smelt]

Actually dissagree. Wizard has tons of resources while cleric got none but support the team. Wizard improves utility and one shoot everyone? Wizard already got better armors with less speed reduce.

[craggy coyote]

That's kinda what cleric's shtick is, though. He improves survivability, while Wizard improves utility

Cleric having haste would make him even more of a must-pick than he already is. Wizard having haste at least encourages him to play with a team

[unique hazel]

My biggest issue with stacking enchants is that there's 0 way to predict who is a threat.

The guy could look like a complete hobo but the moment he stabs you lose 50 HP aaand you're dead.

[hollow smelt]

cleric a must pick?

[unique hazel]

I would suggest something for the issue but I really can't think of anything in particular to solve that issue that doesn't come with it's own problems

[hollow smelt]

U didnt play alpha at all my friend. Cleric isnt a must pick at all, actually partys with clerics always loses pvp.

[unique hazel]

Like how would you communicate that to a player? That a guy has +20 damage enchants total?

other than "welp you died in 1 hit lol"

[craggy coyote]

idk, maybe instead Bless should provide a higher agi buff

right now Bless doesn't feel very strong, especially at higher levels when +3 to anything is a drop in the bucket

[craggy coyote]

That's actually a pretty big deal imo. Not being able to gauge threat level is a problem.

Right now, your best bet is actually that anyone who looks like a complete hobo is a bigger threat than someone who wears armor

[next wagon]

yo down vote this pls #d-and-d-suggestions message

[hollow smelt]

There is no healing for a one shoot kill from wizards or archers.

[unique hazel]

there is nothing wrong with this actually as long as the player keeps nothing from practice raids

[craggy coyote]

Resurrect would like a word with you /s

You have a point actually

Though with two shots a heal can often make you go down in 3 instead of 2 which is a big difference

[next wagon]

this guys don't understood that every season will be a wipe and everyone will be a newbie again, so it will make u need to wait untill u find players and break the base idea of the game

[craggy coyote]

Sounds like an issue with allowing one-shots more than anything though

[hollow smelt]

did u ever try resurect? it takes like 30 sec. while u spend 8 skill ponts XD

[next wagon]

pratice is a good thing but pve map its the worst thing

[unique hazel]

honestly I dont think straight up damage boost enchants should exists

The other enchants are fine. true damage doesn't even actually add damage, but augments existing damage to ignore armor.

[craggy coyote]

Yeah I know, I was jokin

I've never successfully used ressurrect

[unique hazel]

But being able to add flat damage boosts, which are then augmented by scaling of physical power and shit, is really bad.

[next wagon]

I pickpocket a mage 2 times before he hit me while he was ressing

[craggy coyote]

I agree. It forces high level players to spend all of their time trading for +damage gear

[unique hazel]

We already see that slower weapons (pretty much every 2 hander in the game) are dogshit in pvp.

[quaint sentinel]

id like to see other races no size /hit box changes, things like elfs /orcs /cat-folk/lizard-folk let me play a blizzard lizard wizard no short races or every one will just play small hitbox gnomes

[unique hazel]

because those damage boosts augment much more favorably with faster hitting weapons that actually land hits

rather than everyone just casually walking out of the attacks

[craggy coyote]

And that's because flat damage boosts are much much better on fast weapons

[next wagon]

It will be sick

[craggy coyote]

Faster hitting weapons not only hit more consistently, but also end up dealing more DPS because they can stack a damage boost more often

Flat damage boosts are silly, any damage boost should be percentage-based if existing at all

[unique hazel]

pretty much

[craggy coyote]

Especially on enchanted gear

[unique hazel]

Like attribute stacking is already efficiency capped where anything beyond 40 has diminishing returns

[craggy coyote]

Stuff like spells are fine because they're not on 100% of the time

[unique hazel]

but there's no such thing for +damage stuff

which is very lol

[craggy coyote]

someone suggested that barbarian gets the ale perk instead of cleric

which actually sounds like a good idea imo

at the very least it sounds fun

[warm leaf]

the damage he can dish out currently, oof that'd be nuts

[craggy coyote]

okay true

[next wagon]

What do u guys think about making arrows a actual resource and adding a quiver like in diablo?

[warm leaf]

Diminishes the strengths of the ranger even more :('

[next wagon]

I thing will be great a long as the arrows deal more damage in mobs

[next wagon]

pls bro stop, this is the most op class ever

[warm leaf]

I run up, bonkem once or twice in the head, problem solved

[jagged cedar]

barbarian should have the ale perk that cleric has

[craggy coyote]

that's assuming you can do the running up part

[next wagon]

they should let u actually hit with the bow

[craggy coyote]

arrows should be a resource, but you can recover them once you shoot them

[jagged cedar]

barbarian should have a CC or a skill to slow others even for a brief second so he doesnt have to chase others

[craggy coyote]

so like, you shoot, go up to whatever you shot and pick the arrow back up

[next wagon]

fr, throwing daggers and axes too

[jagged cedar]

i think that barbarian should be abe to throw his main weapon

[craggy coyote]

...

throwing bardiche moment

[faint temple]

i agree that would be dope lmao

[craggy coyote]

who needs ranger when you have a barbarian with a full inventory of double axes

[next wagon]

barbarian will become the new meta

[jagged cedar]

na make it have small range

[warm leaf]

I think barbs you get increased weapon action speed perk, not the increase damage more perk, i think the biggest weakness of bark is the harsh movement reduction on those swings

[next wagon]

if u got a purple weap still one tap hs

[craggy coyote]

in my opinion, barbarian is actually still really good, the sheer damage he puts out is ridiculous and smash is super useful for closing the distance

his main issue is that he takes too much damage imo

[next wagon]

I agree

[craggy coyote]

he could use a touch more speed

[jagged cedar]

yes barbarian is good rn but if u play anyone who has exp with barb will just run away from him and he cant catch up even with rage

[craggy coyote]

I think the best change for every class across the board would just be to make you move faster with weapons out

[faint temple]

i want to see more with the shields, like them having health, certain weapons like the two handed axes can do increased damage to them,imo it would make pvp more interesting, and make you want to take fights quicker

[craggy coyote]

right now fist meta goes hard

[unique hazel]

Say hello to my francisca

PLEASE turn around so I can throw 9 of them into the back of your head

Please... I am carrying 10 stacks of these things i looted in the raid... please turn around.

My back

[jagged cedar]

yes but they will still get away when they close doors then leave that room before i get to the door

[unique hazel]

I will just bash the door down instantly

and each hit from the francscia roots them

And most people actually able to run away? Can't survive more than like... 3 of them

assuming white quality and you have axe perk

[jagged cedar]

axe perk works on the throwing axe?

[unique hazel]

I am fairly certain. With grey quality 20 damage, took axe perk, and tested on dummy. was getting 44? damage

[craggy coyote]

exactly, people spending time on doors is actually the best case scenario for barb

[unique hazel]

ofc i had some enchants to augment but for torso damage it had to be augmented by the perk, way too high

[craggy coyote]

cuz smash is just so good for closing distance, and especially good for ambushing people

the thing is, barb is really really strong with movement speed gear and a little bit of damage buffing

but without any gear at all, the best class has to be wizard

a crystal ball makes a big difference, but his spells seem more or less gear-agnostic since you can take all the best ones without knowledge buffs

[unique hazel]

Yeah. Wizard can wipe geared people without any if he's just really good and a bit of luck

I dont actually see any other class doing that with literally nothing to assist

[craggy coyote]

Good haste and invis usage makes a Wizard easily the best when you don't have any gear

Arguably, he's best without gear for the speed

[jagged cedar]

maybe there should be a shield that gives at least 50% immunity against magic to deal with pvp and pve

[uneven hearth]

So true... had a naked following me, and I thought he was joking around so I left him up. Then he started to attack... so I shot him in the head with my bow.

[hollow smelt]

Cmon guys, be fair and balance the game. Dont just OP your main classes even more. If ranger and wizards are 70% of the lobbies is for some reason. they need nerf, and quickly one before its too late.

[white cliff]

I main cleric and think it’s the best class.

[hollow smelt]

for pve yes, for pvp sucks

[tribal patio]

Fighters need buffs

poor guys

[craggy coyote]

Judgement is super good for PVP, basically no aim for 30 magic damage

Protection is also super good, and then a well-placed Holy Light can turn a 2-shot into a 3 or even 4-shot with good timing

[white cliff]

Good thing I can protect my dps with a 20 sheild and give them 20 damage to any weapon, and +3 most attributes. 😂

[uneven hearth]

I'm not so sure when it comes to ranger. I think ranger is very easy to pve so a lot of players just lean toward it.

[hollow smelt]

30 damage? no aim? 4m distance and stay still for 1 sec. so u get oneshooted before u actually caste it.

[tribal patio]

I can solo the lich as ranger lmao

its busted

[void quartz]

funny joke

[white cliff]

Yeah I don’t use judgment.

[uneven hearth]

Without cheesing?

[tribal patio]

Its not a joke, hes in a shit spot

[craggy coyote]

I've used Judgement to great effect

[tribal patio]

Just circle him and shoot him

[uneven hearth]

I'd have to see it, I think.

[white cliff]

I’m not saying it’s bad, but if I’m in a position to even cast that, I’m probably in a 1v3 and screwed either way.

[unique hazel]

I am just not seeing it man.

I go as the "worst" class all test and wipe entire lobbies. Probably a kill count of a thousand before the test is over. Solo. Some in high roller but mostly not.
Im just butchering these "OP" classes without a second thought.

Ranger is always gonna feel busted because his primary attack is ranged with fast projectiles. It feels like you're getting shot by a gun in close quarters. I get it. But have you tried not engaging him head on? Works wonders.

[craggy coyote]

Getting one-shotted is not a very common occurrence unless someone's using a very particular strategy or you have absolutely no armor

[tribal patio]

I could send a video of us trying it, but my wizard died in the first minutes of the fight i call it solo

[craggy coyote]

Or the other person is a wizard. Then it happens more often XD

[white cliff]

I’m interested to see if a full magic damage judgment build could work.

[unique hazel]

tbf a barb with a basic loadout can 1 shot 4 of the classes with a headshot and a felling axe.

[uneven hearth]

I guess I've done it... just shoot, run a bit, shoot again...

[unique hazel]

Typically.

[craggy coyote]

Judgement isn't used all the time but when it comes in clutch it comes in clutch

[uneven hearth]

Even so... it's the nature of the job

I don't think that's a cause to call it OP

[hollow smelt]

Did u ever find a party of 3 archers? put 3 traps on door. U have to turn arround and change your path, instead of fight.

[craggy coyote]

I get why people generally use the other thing though, it's really nice to just

Not have to PVE ever

[white cliff]

Sure but I’d rather one bang pve rooms. And then be buffing my team, I found usually when I was casting judgment things where going wrong or went wrong. Someone died because I didn’t heal, or buff etc.

[unique hazel]

For sure. Don't play their game. Move around. They can't stay in that room forever unless you let them take control of the final inner circle room of course.

[white cliff]

I have a clip of clearing bat room with a single aoe.

It’s great.

[uneven hearth]

Yeah, I saw someone do that

[arctic mist]

cleric buffs can target the enemy is a mistake, what you guys think?

[void quartz]

I mean, I play rogue, and only rogue. I get outclassed by literally everything. If I'm not running away from a fight to sneakily reengage at a later time I'm dead, and that's if I'm lucky enough to even get away. With all the different buffs from cleric and wizard a fighter can easily catch up to a rogue.

[tribal patio]

I played all the classes to 20 levels, and then some...

[craggy coyote]

I think it's because the game is designed to not really distinguish between enemy and ally

[tribal patio]

Ranger is just objectively stronger than everyone else

[white cliff]

They can buff, dead pve mobs, enemy players, they can miss by an inch if your teammates don’t stop moving, they can buff alive pve mobs!

[craggy coyote]

It's all the same in the code, which I think is good for the occasional time when those things blur

[hollow smelt]

First time i see a rogue say that, they can wipe teams of 3 cuz his agility pretty easy.

[white cliff]

An ammo count would fix that.

[tribal patio]

Yeah they need something like that

[white cliff]

And put emphases on the sword usage.

[craggy coyote]

Like the occasional time you end up teaming with a random dude in the dungeon

Puffing pve mobs adds options, too

[void quartz]

It is also easy to get 1 tapped by anything... So a team of 3 with a cleric is not that easy to deal with...

[arctic mist]

i just can buff if my teammates is stop, in a fight heal or buffs is hard

[white cliff]

Practice makes perfect.

[unique hazel]

I still think this is not a problem with ranger but a problem with the fact people can stack a team of 3 of them together. A competent trio with solid gear is oppressive as fuck.

[white cliff]

Could just have a class limit for party.

[uneven hearth]

I think that can take more fun out the game.

[void quartz]

Also the rogue has a smoke bomb ability that is completely useless, it should just be a unique util item that he gets.

[uneven hearth]

Fighting 3 good rouges isn't a joke either

[hollow smelt]

So u need 3 guys full ekiped to deal with 1 or 2 rangers with nothing equiped?

[uneven hearth]

They can wipe an entire lobby themselves

[white cliff]

The Christmas tournament required players have no duplicate classes.

[craggy coyote]

I think limiting the arrows on ranged weapons is the best idea. Make it take inventory space to bring arrows, but make them cheap and easy to find in the dungeon

[craggy coyote]

Maybe make that a rule in high rollers?

But not in normal lobbies

[tribal patio]

That is a issue too, but just think about his potential. He can use spears better than a fighter ever can, a class built entirely around melee. He can out range wizards with bows and unlimited arrows with bursts or even shotguns to wipe out rushing barbarians. They can trap doors, heal themselves and open things faster than anyone else

[white cliff]

Range is oppressive, a buffed barb or wizard one shotting rouges. Not so much.

[tribal patio]

You name it, a ranger is probably better at it than you

[white cliff]

A ranger can’t heal their teammates for an instant 35 healing 4 times.

And 20 health 4 times.

[craggy coyote]

To be fair, healing doesn't outpace damage

[tribal patio]

rangers dont need healing if the enemy is dead

[void quartz]

The only reason I dont think ranger is OP is because rogue counters anything squishy, IF u get the jump on them. As soon as you're spotted by a ranger ur prolly just dead, or running far far away.

[tribal patio]

and its 25 hp 4 times

[hollow smelt]

instant? XD do u see cast speed from clerics?

[uneven hearth]

I don't think it is at all. Repositioning, flanking, cutting that distance down, using your shields, w/e... there are ways around it.

[tribal patio]

which is more than what second wind gives

[unique hazel]

Ranger is certainly the ultimate generalist in my experience.
There is no situation he is bad at, except if someone gets the drop on him while his bow is still out

[craggy coyote]

You can precast, hold it, and then wait for ur teammate to get hit.

[white cliff]

Use a spell book?

[craggy coyote]

You can easily win a 1v1 for a teammate with a single spell

[twin thorn]

ranger is most vulnerable to a rogue ambush i think

[tribal patio]

Shields? they can shoot the legs , close the distance? beartrapped the doors and all the portals, theres no escape

[hollow smelt]

and if my teammate gest one shooted, who do i use that spell with?

[void quartz]

agreed. Unless he has prepared traps beforehand.

[craggy coyote]

Protection can make a lot of one-shots harder to pull off.

[unique hazel]

Pretty much that's the only way I would die as ranger. Or a triple shot from an enemy ranger.

[tribal patio]

the only thing that hard counters rangers is more rangers

[hollow smelt]

i have protection on my sett, and still i saw tons of times oneshoots.

[arctic mist]

Range is annoying, but not op

[tribal patio]

Hes op brah

[uneven hearth]

I get using traps as I went naked and filled my inventory with traps and placed them everywhere for memes, but you can take advantage of them. If you are fighting in a long hall way, that's your fault. There are so many doors and so on.

[craggy coyote]

Well yeah, probably because you didn't put prot on them or they weren't at full HP

[next wagon]

yo I posted an incomplete suggest lol

[unique hazel]

I was even considering damage falloff the longer the range the arrow travels
This is the usual way long range characters are balanced but not gutted.
but it just feels wrong to be punished for landing shots from super long range when it's the hardest in that scenario.

[white cliff]

Honestly my party really didn’t have a hard time with any classes, we had two days where we didn’t die happen twice. I always was confused when people talked about balance.

[hollow smelt]

or because protect, just def like armor, not magic damage 😄

[pseudo wing]

the stats will show for the third wipe in a row that longbow was king, pretty sure

[next wagon]

there's any way to delete it?

[void quartz]

Ranger will be first to receive nerfs, and rogue likely to receive buffs. In my humble opinion.

[craggy coyote]

protection doesn't work on fireballs, no

[unique hazel]

But maybe bows could deal with that mechanic, but not crossbows.

[tribal patio]

Thats not always the case, especially in the new high rollers map. They get on that tower and suppress the whole area

[craggy coyote]

but only direct fireballs can oneshot you and those things are super slow

[jaunty tree]

keen to see the stats for this playtest :)

[white cliff]

Don’t get me started on the 4x4 😭

[uneven hearth]

So why didn't you bring your own range to counter?

[white cliff]

I loved the wheel in the last play test.

[next wagon]

#d-and-d-suggestions message How do I delete it, isn't complete lol

[white cliff]

Honestly thought the map design was better.

[tribal patio]

We did, we only barely won because he had such good area

[unique hazel]

Lmao that fucking thing was hilarious to get to before others as solo ranger

I was literally killing the lobby there. Solo. I would set up traps in funny places and then wait for them to approach the pve, start shooting.
Get chased and they run right into the traps. So many lobby wipes.

[uneven hearth]

We went Ranger, Wizard, Fighter or Ranger, Cleric, Fighter, to make us more adept, and sometimes I went rogue so we only had the wizard for range.

[tribal patio]

Yeah lmao

[craggy coyote]

Yeah that seems like the meta tbh

[tribal patio]

All im saying is good rangers are almost unstoppable and they should be tweaked a little, and fighters should get some buffs

literally worst melee class and its my favorite one too

[craggy coyote]

Is it??

[uneven hearth]

You negate like 70% of dmg as a fighter

[craggy coyote]

Second Wind is hella nice bruv

[tribal patio]

Kiiinda

[craggy coyote]

Not to mention sprint

[unique hazel]

I hate to suggest it but traps should probably be an ability.

Roll the trap expert and the actual trap laying into an ability. So they can't shit them out literally everywhere.

[tribal patio]

its alot to talk about here

[white cliff]

I mean, we played cleric, fighter, wizard or 2x cleric wizard for the entire play test and really didn’t have trouble with rangers at all.

[unique hazel]

I buy 21 or so whenever I go into a raid as ranger.

[tribal patio]

but barbarians get sprint but better, which is called rage

rogues can stealth and 2 shot

[unique hazel]

It's ludicrous

[hollow smelt]

The problem here, is the OP classes are already taken by most population, and they dont want balance anymore. They just want to break the game.

[tribal patio]

rangers are better with spears than fighter, which was my favorite weapons for fighter as its one of the only where you can actually move 2 feet while attacking

[craggy coyote]

Honestly that feat needs to be nerfed, +5 strength at most

[unique hazel]

Shields need some fleshing out
It's nonsense that a shield that's not actively raised doesn't defend you at all. If an arrow happens to hit the shield model when you don't have it raised, it should still block it, same with melee. If that's the point of contact, then it should block it.

[tribal patio]

it shouldnt give anything

[craggy coyote]

the thing is Fighter would be better with spears then

[tribal patio]

Well, yeah.

[craggy coyote]

Since Fighter has a higher strength at base

[uneven hearth]

I agree with this. If I hit the shield of a mob, it works like that.

[white cliff]

The bad part is the hit boxes are so good it makes sense. You can see above the shield so your head and eyes are technically above it.

[tribal patio]

Melee classes should be better at melee then ranged classes

[craggy coyote]

So +5 Strength would just make Ranger slightly worse

Fighter would then be the best spear class in the game with ranger at 2nd but not by much

[white cliff]

If you crouch and look up you block 99% of the time.

[void quartz]

The fighter is so versatile, he can literally use anything. That is his main selling point, it's what makes him good. Not to mention his stats are overall pretty balanced. I don't know how you could complain about that class.

[tribal patio]

If you are too close to shield you hit thorugh it i hav etested it

[tribal patio]

Fighter can use everything, just worse than everyone else

[craggy coyote]

I think the Weapon Mastery needs to be buffed tho, rn you only want it so you can use longbows

[unique hazel]

NGL I have never been scared of a fighter ever as any class

I eat these people like they're a jello packet. As barb, as rogue, as ranger, doesn't matter. They're so pathetic it's unreal. Never died to a fighter ever except once as a literal starter gear barb vs 2 fully equipped.

[tribal patio]

Fighters can use halberds, but if you want a bardiche you get 20% reduction which makes it worthless

[uneven hearth]

Just take a crossbow. After the bow nerf, crossbow dealt more dmg and you don't even need the trait.

[tribal patio]

you can only use fighter gear because negating any melee damage you do is suicide

[craggy coyote]

crossbow deals more damage but longbow can be shot way way more

[unique hazel]

Fighter is by far the weakest class in the game, from my perspective. Versatility... that's the ranger.

[tribal patio]

the crossbow works good for him its what i use, with the spear

Fighter is treated as a shitty tank in this game

[uneven hearth]

If you are in a fight, you fire one shot, then hide behind a wall, you basically shoot same speed.

[craggy coyote]

idk Fighter is really flexible

[tribal patio]

but hes really not, but on paper he is

[white cliff]

Long bow got nerfed near the end of the play test.

[tribal patio]

im done here for now but ive left some of my opinions

[craggy coyote]

Sprint makes him good at a lot of stuff

[tribal patio]

dm me or something if you want to hear more

[void quartz]

I only play rogue, which I enjoy quite a bit. But I do think some of the rogue perks and abilities are completely useless. I also think 10 steps in invis is underwhelming when the wizard can get away with much more.

[next wagon]

@hollow smelt Voting no as a fighter 🤡

[white cliff]

If I had to do class placements it would be Cleric, Wizard, Ranger, Rogue, Barb, Fighter.

[craggy coyote]

this is true

[craggy coyote]

It still feels like you want to bring a Fighter when you can tho

I guess it's just because Fighters can use good armor and take hits

[white cliff]

It for sure feels like you need a tank, but often when we’re enabling our wizard to kill someone and make it a 3v2 it’s not necessary.

[craggy coyote]

The thing is, it's hard to rank the classes because they all do different things

[tribal patio]

Buy barbarians can get like 200 hp or at least mine did so hes better at that too

i have almost never been killed by a fighter unless i was just straight being goofy

[craggy coyote]

Barbarians are massive heal-guzzler though

[void quartz]

The rogue isnt versatile though, while the fighter is. The rogue can do like 1 thing extremely good. While the fighter can do everything, just very average.

[craggy coyote]

Barbs need speed gear in order to not get kited

[void quartz]

So the class that can 1 hit everything also needs to be fast? I dont think so.

[tribal patio]

Just use horseman axe or felling axe, it fixes his class, ive killed like 12+ people solo with it

[hollow smelt]

No its not hard. Ranger 1, Wizard 2, Ranger 3, Wizard 4.... then at place 90 arround the rest. that's my top 100 rank class system.

[white cliff]

Rogue nowhere on there?

[hollow smelt]

rogue is actually balanced

[craggy coyote]

At this point, I'm pretty sure nobody here has any objectively factual conclusions on which classes are better than others

None of us can agree on anything

I feel like everyone has a totally different experience

[uneven hearth]

I just think a lot are whining about how other classes are too powerful because they can't figure a way to beat them. Sometimes you just get outplayed. Adapt.

[craggy coyote]

https://tenor.com/view/bear-grylls-improvise-adapt-overcome-gif-13898964

Every class has people going into games and totally dominating

[void quartz]

The rogue is balanced but some of his perks and abilities need reworks. Like smoke bomb is useless, pick pocket is useless. You can only build the rogue 2 ways, 1 hit build. Or a poison damage build. Often you are doing both simultaneously.

[white cliff]

Cleric is the best class because it enables every other class. I feel like being able to sustain in a fight will win you the majority of engagements. +20 sheild and +10 to any weapon, instant health gain, +3 to vital stats, and a resurrection.

[craggy coyote]

It's +10 but whatever

[hollow smelt]

hey people, this is like someone play nerf class and say it needs a buff, then someone else plays a OP class says it needs a buff. Then is the word of one vs the word of the other. and nerfed class still being nerfed, and op class still being op. who wins? OP class ofc.

[unique hazel]

murdering everyone all test I can't help but consider most people to just lack situational awareness. This will greatly affect the general consensus as people die when they really... really shouldn't be. And form opinions based on those cases.

[craggy coyote]

It's good, but I think it's about equal to what another class can offer

[unique hazel]

It's difficult to test how effective any class is when 90% of the pop are deaf and unable to fight back.

Did you know there are people who legit just invite random people from the list? no voice?

[craggy coyote]

Can confirm

I am deaf and unable to fight back

[void quartz]

The devs take this into consideration. They can see the good players, the shit players, and they can usually see if there is emotion in the feedback.

[next wagon]

@glacial bridge u know this game will have a wipe every season right?

[simple summit]

its just .suggest for the bot right? sorry for askin in here

[uneven hearth]

Yeah, someone did it to me. I joined and asked about discord.. ran with them with junk gear, and they died really fast. I think they were just desperate for a team mate, but can't communicate. /shrug

[white cliff]

Whoops, fixed.

[hollow smelt]

guys... its just more easy than that. All classes should be played the same. so if rangers are 50% above the rest... nerf them. if fighters no one plays it. buff them, why we want class that no one uses?

[glacial bridge]

yeah, I still would like to theorycraft my pvp build with systems that MANY other games have implemented countless times. i love that stuff :D

[white cliff]

I’m not too sure though, in a game where healing takes upwards of thirty seconds and potion healing is also on a timer, instant heath can win an engagement. And when a lot of it comes down to space and stat checking it’s even more important.

[uneven hearth]

I actually think Rogues and Barbs are least played. I like them, at least Rogue, but I think they are harder to learn for fresh people to this type of game play so that may be why.

[craggy coyote]

True, but Clerics are also not very fun in solo, can be easily ganked, and don't provide much value besides buffs and heals

And heals are shockingly difficult to use. There's a decent amount of skill in actually landing a heal

[white cliff]

They don’t provide anything beyond instant healing and some of the best pve clear in the game lol.

[white cliff]

Oh I know it.

[craggy coyote]

True, I always forget about that ability

The healing is nice and could maybe use a bit of tuning? But if it's all you bring to the table, it should win an engagement, you know?

Nobody wants to play a healer class who only tops people off between fights

[next wagon]

Me too, I just think there's no point on doing something that take too long and u end up not even playing with, hope they do it in a way u can get the final subclass at least in half a season

[white cliff]

Like I said it usually does. We had spans where we didn’t die for two days haha.

[hollow smelt]

Bro, u dont know what u talk about, trust me.

[white cliff]

Ah but you’re looking at him.

[white cliff]

I’ve been a top 100 cleric on both play tests lol.

[deft sequoia]

i really hope devs don't look at suggestions seriously. some of these suggestions are straight up game breakingly terrible.

[craggy coyote]

So you'd play Cleric if his heals were heals over time?

Cuz if that's what you're suggesting that sounds boring as hell

[white cliff]

No that’s why cleric is so strong though.

[glacial bridge]

I'm with you. I wouldnt expect someone to attempt all of those changes. one or two more ways to add depth is the goal

[hollow smelt]

Change of premades, and try again to be top 100. get carried doesnt mean to a class be OP.

[white cliff]

Lmao okay my guy.

I’m talking from my experience of hundreds of fights, that healing and buffs wins the majority of combat. The class is a class enabler, and will beat a non cleric team the majority of the time.

[next wagon]

All your suggestions were very good. It would be really cool if they implemented them in a functional way

[uneven hearth]

Even rangers?

[white cliff]

Let’s face it the combat isn’t complex, it comes down to stat checking.

[white cliff]

Like I said before we ran wizard, fighter, cleric, or 2x cleric wizard. You invis haste, protect and bless, and get rid of that ranger incredibly quickly.

[uneven hearth]

Exactly, so it's counterable. It's not op.

[white cliff]

I never said ranger was op, I really don’t have a problem with class balance.

Though my experience seems to be an outlier.

[uneven hearth]

I think no matter what, a lot of the balancing will probably be focused more on team play rather than solo play, or I at least hope so.

[white cliff]

We can hope, there’s been a lot of uproar about the solo experience.

[hollow smelt]

This game has no option for Solo Q. so obv is team focused.

[white cliff]

You’d think that, but for the amount of complaints about solo play some people disagree with you.

[uneven hearth]

I'd have to imagine around 40% are pure solo players.

[white cliff]

Yeesh, really?

[hollow smelt]

Then make ways for the community to play with each other easier, without getting stab in the back in the process

[uneven hearth]

I'm not saying it's good or smart, but it's just how people are. That's why so many asked about a pve dungeon only.

[white cliff]

Something we can agree on. I think solo q team killing without voip would be horrible.

[hollow smelt]

I dont want VOIP, for kids to flame and be toxic after killing you by pure luck maybe? and be even proud of it XD

[uneven hearth]

I mean if they want pve, play skyrim

[white cliff]

What are we the soft generation now? Did Covid give everyone anxiety too, I swear nobody wants to voice chat or interact with the community anymore in fear of being yelled at.

[uneven hearth]

I think it's been like that even before covid.

[white cliff]

A sign of the times I guess.

[hollow smelt]

Hey bro, maybe in your town, village, city, neighborhood or something like this are savages... I dont have to test my patiente with and archer says u have no balls to pass throw that door every single pvp.

[white cliff]

You know, I have no idea what that’s suppose to mean but I’ll take it as a compliment.

[hollow smelt]

that's exaclty what i meant.

[uneven hearth]

Anyway... this reminds me of a bug I need to report...

[hasty olive]

Nice. I thought people might not like my suggestion since they could take it as a "circle bad, balance around solo play" suggestion. I hope the devs agree that the existing systems are really interesting but could use some tweaking to have less frustrating situations.

[strange dirge]

I agree im not a fan of cicle mechanics BUT you could flavor it to be the dungeons collapsing 🙂

So rooms get closed off farther from the center cause they cave in

[white cliff]

It’s hard to give a thumbs up or down with large suggestions. Some parts I agreed with and some I didn’t.

I actually had talked about the hunt showdown formatting bonus for solo and duos like you mentioned!

[hasty olive]

I really like how it ties into the dungeon (scarab swarm) and works as a timer that punishes greed. I don't even really dislike the random nature of it for the most part since it keeps me from doing the same moneymaking strategies every run, together with random spawns. The part where it gets frustrating is when the portal spawns are hard to secure or find.

[glacial bridge]

I think it comes down to whether you believe their post is worth seeing or not. Our upvotes dont determine what gets implemented, just what the devs are more likely to see and consider

[hasty olive]

In High Roller, I think having to win fights to get out makes sense. In Normal, I feel like the playstyle of looting and scooting should be pretty viable without relying too much on luck. I see Normal as where you learn the game, make money to recover from rock bottom, or play a more dungeoneering/PvE playstyle. The zone can introduce a random element that hinders all of that. I'm curious if others agree.

[white cliff]

A lot of the time you can listen for them.

The only problem I’ve really had is on B3 in the vertical rooms. Died to circle twice?

No portals anywhere.

[white cliff]

Also great analysis of the modes.

[undone orbit]

Why can't I make suggestions anymore

[glacial bridge]

the bot wasnt working so its temporarily taken down

[hasty olive]

I've had that situation about a dozen times in both floors. I played a lot of Solo and was frequently last man standing in my trio since I have a safe, slow playstyle. That meant I ran into situations where even though I knew where some portals were, I couldn't use them because a trio was already there or they were in dangerous AI rooms (lots of archers, wraith, etc)

[white cliff]

Oh trust me I’m the cleric I’m always last out, as I’m needed to heal my other teammate and sacrifice is need be. Gear creep is way softer on cleric.

[white cliff]

The middle room right?

I really didn’t have that issue, but it’s more of our play style probably. We fight for portal control to the bitter end usually.

[fading horizon]

Im pretty sure this has been said a billion times but I wish that ai health would be reduced to cause players to be more less the main object of danger in the game

Kind of making ai a bit more of a source of loot then full on danger

[glacial bridge]

@fading horizon i watched some youtube video that said this playtest was actually level 2/3 of the dungeon. Level 1 would be 'The Forest' and monsters would be weaker

[fading horizon]

ty for the info slate

[white cliff]

As you get better gear, mobbing becomes easier though. And you get the loot from the mobs.

[gusty needle]

What about pve type game? And architypes for classes?

We need pve mode too) rhis game is so good for dnd role playing

[white cliff]

Have you tried cleric? The cleric PvE experience is so nice.

[white cliff]

Open source modding with custom games?

[gusty needle]

@keen onyx

[white cliff]

Oh don’t ping the devs big homie. 😂

[hasty olive]

don't do that

[white cliff]

I’m sure he’s a chill guy, I doubt he’s answer. More of a respect thing to just leave the guy be.

[gusty needle]

Nope. Pve type of game. Not modding

[white cliff]

Probably gets pinged a billion times a day.

[gusty needle]

Not king of the hill type

Not royal battle

Just hard pve

[white cliff]

I just don’t think it has a ton of appeal, but I can see it being added by modding if it was open source. I knew what you meant by pve.

[hasty olive]

I noticed once I actually ran some semi-decent gear sets the AI felt much less like damage sponges. I think I like where the AI is at right now because they're enough of a threat to change how you move around the map until you get the gear to actually care about PvP

[gusty needle]

So...developers will add modding?

[hasty olive]

Who knows

[gusty needle]

:/

[hasty olive]

If they do, there will be lots of opportunity to make great custom experiences. I hope they'll consider it

[gusty needle]

They can do pve and pve types

Not together

[hasty olive]

I think custom lobbies and server browsers are the single best way to ensure the long term health of a multiplayer game

[gusty needle]

Actually yes

I mean pve mode with individual characters and a branch of the levels of these characters

And stash

Official pve mod

I am really hope to see it

[hasty olive]

Crafting a a pve experience with writing, level design, characters, etc. Is a lot more work than creating the framework of a pvp game. The randomness and player interaction provides a lot of your content for you. Ironmace is only 26 people right now and are hoping to get a full release in the next year (probably a bit longer, I would guess). I wouldn't expect pve content. They have enough on their plate trying to add all the customization and class variety they want. If they ever decide to make pvp balance a priority that will be extremely time-consuming as well.

That being said, sdf said in the qna that AI badly needs improvement and one of the things they most want to add to the game is more maps and enemies. I think they care quite a bit about the PvE experience and will try to make it very enjoyable even if it never has enough meat on its bones to be a standalone experience.

[odd narwhal]

Would it be possible to have certain rarities of items having a item level and make it so that high geared people can only go into high level dungeons? Just saying this because when i played yesterday i ran into a team of 2 and both my friend and I got 1 hit from full hp by one of them using a legendary halberd and he had 2 other legendary items and all purples for damage... I mean if i was a rogue sure but i was a fighter with over 32% phys defense and a blue plate helm. Just seems kinda unfair i feel like if you had to be bellow x item level then it would make people have to choose their build more so if they wanted damage they would have to be a glass cannon or at least balance it out

[dense girder]

pls do not ping a dev like this. Thank you

[errant niche]

Can you still add more suggestions?

[azure sandal]

The bot broke

So they removed the ability to add more until they fix it

[muted crag]

People were adding the same bad idea 50 times over anyway.

[errant niche]

I just wanted to suggest that the cleric should be allowed to use the book as an off hand instead of shield as a passive ability to balance it.

[copper crystal]

ya kinda surprised they can't

one thing they really need to change is ranger traps, having to look down and manually disable them is one of the worst game design choices ive ever seen :/

[shy pollen]

No offense to that guy in particular but the guy asking for a PvE mode kind of encompasses the fear I have if a PvE mode is created. PvE players will start asking for all sorts of focus on the game specifically for PvE players. They will complain that there needs to be more difficult/smarter mobs. The vast majority of RPG style games are already targeted at the PvE players and their attraction to their pixels is why you never see full loot PvP MMORPGs anymore. I enjoy the fact that PvE in Dark and Darker can be challenging and unforgiving but I don't think it should become the sole focus of a game mode.

New World was originally designed as a full loot survival MMORPG and their attempts to please PvE players resulted in a game that no one was really happy with. From the playtest there is obviously a good sized market that is attracted to the game the way it is. Please don't follow in the footsteps of other developers that have given in to this group of often very entitled players (pinging a dev for attention to their idea lol) that are extremely fickle and demanding of ever more "content" when for PvP players fighting others is the primary content.

[uneven hearth]

I'm not certain the circle is a good idea, but I do love that the game kind of forces encounters. It makes it a lot more fun and entertaining because it gives it a spice to me not knowing what to expect. Could be three rogues all stacked in a corner in the shadows of the next room, or a barbarian ready to berserk out as soon as he sees me. Who knows?

If it was just PvE, I think I would get bored of the game too fast.

[fading horizon]

i have done both of those things u said and i just feel like even a base long sword taking more than one hit to kill a skeleton is a bit much

[shy pollen]

That's why I made the comment that PvE players would just constantly be demanding new content and changes to monsters etc. Just look at most PvE games on the market an expansion comes out and then people exhaust all the content in like 2 weeks. Not to mention that balancing between PvE and PvP can start to create nightmares as something that is strong in one mode could be weak in another.

[white cliff]

Most weapons will take more than one hit to kill enemies it just be like that. Though it gets better with gear.

[shy pollen]

Why do you want easy mode PvE? There are plenty of games like that already. This is a game where you have to play smart because you need to land multiple hits on things while taking even a single hit can put you in a very bad situation. It isn't meant to be a Diablo style game where you are clearing rooms full of monsters with a single ability.

[uneven hearth]

Very True

[fading horizon]

what im saying is that i want people to be a bigger problem than mobs

[uneven hearth]

People are, lol.

[fading horizon]

not for me if i can get a green long sword or if i am playing cleric it just feels like there isnt even a competition

[uneven hearth]

Against people?

[shy pollen]

They already are. Mobs are not difficult if you are skilled. But they are something that take an important resource even for skilled players (time). So you have to decide whether a certain room is worth the time investment to clear to find loot in it or to by pass it and move on.

[uneven hearth]

That and risk giving away your position with sound

[visual flint]

I very much would like to experience level one and see what the loot there would be like in terms of helping you gear up, because I feel like lvl 3 is a bit unbalanced for non HR dungeons right now, feeling like you would need to do multiple tier 2 runs before going down, and dont even get me started on attempting the boss

[granite plinth]

take wizard out of game

[visual flint]

level 2 is fine once you can fund your own heals and grab some basic weapons or gear to pad yourself out, but its super brutal on most characters when doing a fresh start

as far as the mob difficulty goes one of the reasons i loved barbarian so much was getting my hands on a white felling axe and being able to just melt skellies in 2-3 hits, that was truly satisfying

at one point i got a purple one and could oneshot archers and 2shot mages and regular skellies

[brazen kernel]

mike shut it game amazing

[granite plinth]

take wizard out of game

[copper crystal]

@granite plinth stfu you god damn idiot lol

[granite plinth]

take wizard out of game

[regal shale]

If players achieve or complete their achievements or quests, it would be good to make efficient use of the storage space by allowing them to obtain classified boxes such as golden boxes and lion head boxes. For example, the golden box has the size of one storage box, and the lion's head box has 80% of it, and the lower class boxes have to be given space sequentially.

[hushed plover]

Guys I broke my reddit feedback post. It says "This field must be under 40000 characters"

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/zwaufg/dark_and_darker_feedback_and_suggestion/ Here it is. I did some research and it says that it's about 30-60 minute read time. Enjoy you folks who like reading feedback (the D-and-D suggestion discord tab didn't have enough space for me to write in lol)

[light bane]

On skeletons, align the Y axis of rotation to their hips. Also decrease their rotation speed when changing targets.

[shell rain]

skill issue

[plucky lantern]

Make it so that you can only link items in their respective trade chats when trading.
For example, only linking weapons in the weapon chat
Armors in the armor chat
etc etc.
Consumable items like torches, campfires, lock picks, keys, and what not would go into Utilities.

[leaden marten]

lol k, bud.

[lost tulip]

NOW I HAVE TO PLAY DOG SHIT CALL OF DUTY, RELEASE THE GAME ITS SO FUCKING GREAT PLS JUUST RELEASE ALREADY

[rapid ibex]

^this is how we got unfinished broken game

[lost tulip]

youre talking outta your ass lil bro, the game is literally done

[rough prairie]

is this the place where you can make suggestions for the game?

[leaden marten]

It's okay, @rapid ibex, Mal don't understand how games work, but figured out caps lock, so I'll give 'em a pass. Read the QnA there --> #dev-qna-archives Mal.

[leaden marten]

I guess you can post them here, but there used to be a suggestion submission channel during the playtest.

I can't imagine parsing through all that shit if I were them.

Blessing and a curse.

[wide sage]

Holy hell this. I can strafe skeletons while fighting them just fine, but suddenly when I try to run past one they turn on a dime.

[raw scarab]

Instead of a big circle the "darkness" progressively moves "filling" each room from the outside in. for example smaller rooms are filled faster than bigger ones. Just something a little more unique than a big red danger circle. It would function more or less the same just moving differently.

[granite plinth]

the game should be free with micro transactions, that way the game would make a lot more profits, more profits = allows for more content to be added and allows a longer upkeep for the game throughout the years.

Being free makes people more willing to try the game, use destiny 2 as an example that game nearly died until it became F2P that revived the game since it allowed more players and they used micro transactions instead as a way to monetise the game. Valorant did the same, fortnite, csgo, overwatch 2, league of legends and dota 2 just to name a few of the big games.

[shell rain]

no MTX

no free

Free makes it easy to hack

as there is no barrier to entry

no MTX as it's always BS

[empty pumice]

Please make it so that if I'm standing in the tavern and use my skills in the tavern. The skill doesn't go on couldown once I join the game. The tavern is supposed to be a lobby where you can just do random stuff waiting for other players. Goofing around in the lobby shouldn't be a penalty in game

[granite plinth]

valorant has the least ammount of hackers and they are free

[empty pumice]

Valorant is a huge game billion dollar ocmpany that can back it up with an expensive software anti cheat

[shell rain]

because valorant is using Epic's bullshit thing

that has root access or something

and i dont wanna Winnie Xi Ping to read my data

[granite plinth]

there is nothing wrong with root access

you already did by being on the internet

[shell rain]

Yeah but not by the CCP

[prisma acorn]

why is the suggestion channel closed? or am i just banned`?

[shell rain]

you are banned from there

they said your suggestions were trash

jk

its closed for all

[granite plinth]

The CCP has information on so many people already

[prisma acorn]

ok then i just wanna say that they should fix how abusable the Pavise is in PvE. just make monsters attack it

[granite plinth]

well the devs already decided to make it pay once to play so nothing we can change tbh

i just hope that the game is able to be sustained for a long time

And i want cosmetics fr fr

[snow grove]

I hope the game is $80 tbh

[granite plinth]

bruh

there is a less 2 hour play and you get full refund

[grim fiber]

Im gonna get the most expensive pre order, just take my money

[shell rain]

70$ is fine

for this game

EA can fuck off tho

[granite plinth]

But i doubt that is enough time for people to actually learn the game and wnjoy it

[shell rain]

I mean

Electronic Arts I mean

not Early Access

with their 70$

[snow grove]

If the game isn't at least $60 I'm not buying it

[granite plinth]

Bruh if it was free with a bunch of skins i am buying all the beta stuff

[snow grove]

They can sustain it with paid DLC like Paradox imo

[empty pumice]

If the price is high then cosmetics should be unlockable by play and not purchased as well.

[granite plinth]

Cuz i hope they won’t be obtainable for full release

[granite plinth]

That why paid games are a downfall unless they are story games

people don’t want to pay extra for cosmetics when you spent like $100 on the game

[snow grove]

Or fun and getting regular content updates

[granite plinth]

bruh

why do you think elden rings updates are only about pvp and bug fixes

when it’s a pay once and own it all

[snow grove]

Elden ring is #14 on steam charts after months

[granite plinth]

but there earnings are nowhere near the f2p with micro transactions

[snow grove]

And gtav, rust, destiny 2 (most of the players have the expansions) ARK, Siv 6, payday 2

[granite plinth]

those games are so dead

[snow grove]

All of those are top 20 on steam

[granite plinth]

Gtav you can literally just get infinite money through cheat engine

rust isn’t even popular

[snow grove]

gtav is #1 streamed on twitch

[granite plinth]

That’s so cap

dunno where you got your sources but that’s incorrect

[snow grove]

https://twitchtracker.com/games

https://www.twitchmetrics.net/games/viewership

bot is stopping me from posting more links sorry

[granite plinth]

you realise 90% of these viewers are watching one streamer

on the one fortunate day that he decided to play gtav

check all time

Most streamed

7 days isn’t sufficient

[snow grove]

I thought we were talking about mtx not GTAV streams. Also it was still #1 like 6 months ago when I was streaming

[granite plinth]

Since it could just be one streamer carrying that game

i never mentioned mtx once

[snow grove]

microtransactions?

[granite plinth]

oh is that what i means

[snow grove]

All I'm saying is if they keep it fresh and good the playerbase won't die fast

[granite plinth]

Never used mtx as a term before

well that’s the problem

because you need funds to keep a game running

And buying the base game just won’t cut it for the amount of content for a competitive game

The difference between gtav and dark adn darker is gtav doesn’t even have to add new stuff to the game since it’s a one and done

and they literally just out here making 20 different editions of gtavs which people will just buy anyways

[potent frigate]

Curious to hear the responses to my suggestion

[granite plinth]

Nah most of the time only 2 arrows hit anyways

it’s difficult to hit with more then 3 since the spread is too wide

and shields are a perfect counter to it

[potent frigate]

How far away are you doing it? I often kill players point blank with 4+ arrow hits with the shotgun. All you have to do is let them get in swing range, jump if they have a shield and if not just body them with 5 arrows.

[granite plinth]

about 1feet

[potent frigate]

Also a 3 spread could be tightened up, the arrows don’t need to go super wide.

That’s too far lol, you need to be point blank.

[granite plinth]

Nah

that point id die to one hit from a barb

and yes all your counters can be countered

[potent frigate]

Highly doubtful, the amount of times I’ve killed barbs with a single shotgun, or a triple arrow leading into a shotgun is insane. It’s overtuned and I main ranger.

[wide sage]

It's also a full blown skill slot. only heals have had a limited number of uses, which seems very intentional.

[granite plinth]

I play barb ranger and wizard

And yeah the 5 shot is good not broken

maybe reduce one arrow

[potent frigate]

I wouldn’t say it’s a “skill shot” or if it really is, it’s a very light skill shot. It’s an instant kill in most scenarios if you are using it right.

[granite plinth]

2 arrows would make it useless

[potent frigate]

Which isn’t difficult to do

[granite plinth]

yeah well if they are good players they wouldn’t run at you when you have 5 shot

maybe reduce the time it takes to pull out 5 arrows

being instant is a little unfair

up the time it takes i meant

[wide sage]

Might be indicative of a bigger problem, ie some people seem to think that the longbow in general is just a taaaad too strong per arrow. Naturally even a small nerf to damage would also nerf the spreadshot

[potent frigate]

I mean what do they do then? If they’re a fighter, or barb, they’re going to need to get in range to do anything.

[potent frigate]

The longbow already got nerfed, the recurve is the play now.

[wide sage]

ah

[granite plinth]

They can just pop a shield potion or just use throwing axe

If you miss it’s retrievable anyways

[potent frigate]

I suppose. I just feel like, a ranger who has cqb clearance is just too useful.

[granite plinth]

well without 5 shots

Ranger is just gonna get smacked cqb

They already had a gear nerf

[livid valve]

regarding the VOIP suggestion - it should probably be like in DayZ or Arma 3 - allowing the player to adjust their speech volume (aka distance)

on the lowest setting you can whisper to a player right next to you and nobody else like 2-3 meters away can hear it

[potent frigate]

Isn’t that the point of the class? A ranger is useful ranged, and a fighter/barb is useful cqb.

[granite plinth]

Just make it proximity

[wide sage]

i mean, rapiers are pretty good backups

[livid valve]

but when set to yelling it can go as far as 100 meters

[granite plinth]

okay but lets say it’s a 1v3

[potent frigate]

Prox chat is already coming I think

[granite plinth]

You are an archer

All three close in on you

[livid valve]

theres different ways to implement proximity chat

[granite plinth]

What do you do

With a 3 shot nerfed ability abil

[potent frigate]

Most players aren’t going to 1v3, they’ll play smart and avoid

[livid valve]

if its set to like 10 meters forever, using it sneakily wont be possible because youre always going to be heard through walls and behind doors lol

[potent frigate]

You can still kill with a 3 shot.

[granite plinth]

You can avoid but it isn’t always gonna be possible

[granite plinth]

you cant if players have decent builds

[potent frigate]

That’s all (if)

[granite plinth]

5 shots might be powerful for normal

but high roller

people are much more geared

And skilled

so dodging is no problem

And 90s cooldown is outrages

[wide sage]

maybe like 60 max

[granite plinth]

yeah

it’s already bad enough with no dodging

ibut no dodging is nice

It fits this game

[wide sage]

It's kind of fitting of a ranger playstyle, I think. get them as weak as possible before they get to you, then you have one last shotgun blast to hopefully finish them off before it turns into a desperate scramble

[granite plinth]

exactly

and you generally have no ammo after that ability anyways

So if they survive

You are done for

Unless you have a backup sword

[wide sage]

well again, i would j- yeah

thoughts on my zap/meditate suggestion?

[granite plinth]

Thing is no one even uses zap but if devs want it to be used maybe they can roll with your plan

And wizard already has a pretty decked out kit

[wide sage]

I know they have an insane skill ceiling, which I think is great, and yeah I wouldn't want that to be boosted at all. But I would just like zap to have a proper use, maybe even if it's just to help less skilled wizards

[granite plinth]

If they buff zap another ability has gotta be nerfed

[wide sage]

Why so?

[granite plinth]

cuz even if they do

No one is gonna use zap

don’t*

They’ll still roll with their 1vx builds

But increase zap usage

or just increase damge

since starter players don’t have the gear for extra intelligence

/knowledge

so they can’t make full wizard builds

unless in the future they make it so your stats gets better the higher your level

I doubt that though

[wide sage]

I think the damage is fine, it is only a first tier spell after all, but its also so weak that only 5/6 uses is practically worthless imo

[granite plinth]

yeah

[inland pelican]

eww... who suggested shields should be breakable? they have too few actual uses as is >.<

[granite plinth]

it’s gonna be a thing regardless

all gears are breakable

Hence the repair function

[inland pelican]

if all gear is, that is fine

but a suggestion was for shields specifically and it legit made my skin crawl

[granite plinth]

nah that’s stupid

[wide sage]

that does sound nasty

[inland pelican]

like bro, it takes solid skill and practice to capably use the shield as is... dont punish shield users more T_T is a shield fighter, apparently i like punishment

[granite plinth]

i mean that huge shield for archers is literally riot shield in cod

so i guess that’s why that person wrote that

[inland pelican]

huge shield? the biggest shield available is a kite shield, and let me tell you, it doesnt help much >.<

[granite plinth]

oh guess you have never picked it up

[inland pelican]

o.o there is a bigger one?

[granite plinth]

It covers like your whole upper body from behind

[inland pelican]

is there a tower shield?

[wide sage]

the pavice?

[granite plinth]

yeah

the pavice

[inland pelican]

i never saw it! o.o

[wide sage]

it actually blocks stuff while on your back?

[inland pelican]

i want it so bad...

[granite plinth]

it should

if it doesn’t

then it’s basically useless gear

[wide sage]

I think it is. maybe good for setting up portal camping

I thought it was a tower shield the first time i got one on my fighter, i was so disapointed

[granite plinth]

Haha

[inland pelican]

XD

[granite plinth]

Figghters need a tower shield

[inland pelican]

i mean if it is that big i could make good freaking use of it even if it isnt a tower shield

[granite plinth]

Where they can’t equip melees only the shield

Could make a nice tank

[wide sage]

pure tank build

[inland pelican]

if they make it two handed they have to give it a shield bash attack, if a weak damaging one

[wide sage]

no damage, only tank

[granite plinth]

nah no shield bash

shield bash is clunky

[inland pelican]

o.o? how?

[granite plinth]

Maybe you can’t see

plus your range would probably only be like 1mm

[wide sage]

which would be fine if you have a massive shield, you just run them down

[inland pelican]

XD i mean it wouldnt be much further then a punch for range if not shorter, make the dmg no bigger then a punch

give almost no visibility and rangers can shoot through the vision slot

[wide sage]

your back would still be exposed so the counterplay is that you push yourself right into a bad situation

[inland pelican]

aye

[granite plinth]

Not possible

[fluid oracle]

i think that they need to add more time in the safe zone all the time i wasnt able to loot more than 3 4 chest and i had too run away because i was diying for the safezone

[inland pelican]

maybe give it a speed penalty like the rest of the gear up around 50

[granite plinth]

If it becomes a thing all other shields would be able to bash too

Since a bash would be an ability no?

[inland pelican]

the reason you could bash with this shield would litterally be because it is two handed, and no just a weapon attack with the shield

[granite plinth]

They could do that

By limiting it to only two handed shields

[inland pelican]

aye

[granite plinth]

but it would only make for a troll build

wouldn’t really be useful tbh

[inland pelican]

well to this specific shield, and it would, but its an easy counter for it lol

[fluid oracle]

bruh they have cancelled my message

[inland pelican]

i think it would be fun if not super useful lol you could close off a pass for your friends to ambush the other guys as they try to work around

or do a controlled retreat into an ambush

[granite plinth]

Or they can it make it into its own class/race