that's like if a person was named Guy
#general gaming
slim thorn
wait is Slippy a toad or a frog
visual hill
that's like if a person was named Guy
Human
mossy flume
Toad
slim thorn
one of you knows this
unreal idol
https://youtu.be/XWLGHdD5NZc the real Direct
river veldt
MARIO NOOOO
mossy flume
Yep, Fox calls Slippy Toad a frog 
gaunt marten
It's basically a system that hooks up different game randomizer together and shuffles items between them! So you can find ocarina of time items in slay the spire, and slay the spire items in terraria, and terraria items in spyro
river veldt
archipelago is a fun word
gaunt marten
True
frozen gate
also a bonus
unreal idol
Archipelago breaks my brain
gaunt marten
We run an archipelago game every month in manechat
unreal idol
How does it even work?
gaunt marten
How does it even work?
You install the software, connect to the website, launch a specific version of the randomizer made to work with it
That's it!
frozen gate
so like terraria in spyro is like
gaunt marten
This month has Pokémon emerald, outer wilds, link's awakening, crystal project, ocarina of time, chrono trigger, and other games.
frozen gate
starfury drop in spyro or smth
mossy flume
It would be funny if at some point, someone in the Star Fox universe says "Um, you do know that's an aileron roll and not a barrel roll, right? I thought you were an ace pilot, Fox?"
slim thorn
during play time, the Archipelago network protocol is "just" a server that stores a list of <item, location> pairs, and each of the clients (usually game mods or tools running emulators) tells the server when you check one of your locations
gaunt marten
starfury drop in spyro or smth
Like you pick up a dragon egg and instead of receiving an egg in your game, the terraria player gets a starfury
slim thorn
(the actually complicated part is "generating the multiworld" / choosing which items go in which locations such that everyone's game is beatable but it still feels random in a good way)
unreal idol
Hm.... that doesn't fully answer my question
frozen gate
oh so it's like working together sort of to make progress in each game
river veldt
have you guys played vanilla Link's Awakening ? that game is awesome
gaunt marten
Yes! The goal is to beat every game in one month
slim thorn
I maintain 2 different Archipelago randomizers. I can go into as much detail as you want. Just ask.
gaunt marten
have you guys played vanilla Link's Awakening ? that game is awesome
I wanna play it
gaunt marten
Well I would appreciate better quality of life
river veldt
the remake has lots of QoL features
unreal idol
I guess I'm not seeing how it all connects?
Like how do you find a Pokémon item in Spyro
And have it... work
gaunt marten
External software handles it for you.
The randomizer is designed to say "Replace this item with whatever the external software says"
slim thorn
so the Archipelago client / game mod is responsible for both telling the server you checked a "location" and giving you an "item" when the server says you received the item
unreal idol
Wouldn't that break games?
gaunt marten
The game is changed to expect that
slim thorn
in your example, the Spyro AP client/mod/etc would be responsible for saying "you freed Bob the dragon, that means the location 'Freed Bob' gets checked" and then the AP server says "an Ultra Ball was in that location, sending item 'Ultra Ball' to the Pokemon player", and the Pokemon player's AP client is responsible for actually giving the player an Ultra Ball in-game
and yes developing a playable AP client is often as much about preventing the game from imploding as it is about implementing the individual items and locations
(one of my mods has a ScriptedEventEdits/ folder with twenty different files in it)
unreal idol
Sounds complicated
slim thorn
like any other game mod, it's as complicated as you want it to be
frozen gate
id probably stick to playing the games im most familiar with of the list, what's all available
gaunt marten
To play, it is slightly more complicated than running a single randomizer
slim thorn
I could've called either of my randos "done" after the first couple releases, but I've been spending over a year on each because there's so many more features I can add that make them more fun for me and the other players
unreal idol
Is there a video or something explaining this system?
frozen gate
like current month's list being OoT, CT and Emerald i know rpgs well enough to be chill with CT and Emerald and ive played at least OoT's remake
slim thorn
mostly no because the setup is different for each game
gaunt marten
Is there a video or something explaining this system?
Yes! Let me find it
unreal idol
mostly no because the setup is different for each game
Damn
slim thorn
since we are talking about modding games, and of course how you mod a game is different for every game
frozen gate
dragon warriorrr
if that comes up id do that one
assuming it means dragon quest 1 on nes haha
gaunt marten
Correct
Llisandur played that
This video explains it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzsb2OuO4Ig
slim thorn
the real irony is that Flitter got me into this and now I'm so deep into making my own randos I have no time to play in Flitter's multiworlds any more
gaunt marten
There's one that explains what archipelago is on a more fundamental level but I can't find it
Oh, this video does
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrEOZFBRRvE
slim thorn
heck, I even learned speedrun tricks for one of my games so I could add "trick logic" to the randomizer
unreal idol
Arr you sure
slim thorn
sure of what?
unreal idol
This video opens with "this assumes you have some notion of what archipelago is" when I'm looking exactly for an explanation
slim thorn
tbf we already gave you the notion but yes Flitter's 2nd video is that
unreal idol
Okay seeing it visualized it's not as cryptic sounding
I didn't realize the games literally said "sent item X to game Y'
slim thorn
yep
cerulean herald
how easy(or hard) is it to add a title to the list of compatible games
slim thorn
mostly that depends on how easy the game is to mod
the parts that every AP game has to do are fairly easy
rugged flax
you have to write the mod for it yourself, essentially, if you want to add a new game
gaunt marten
You have to make:
1- A randomizer mod.
2- A program that connects to the server.
2 is easy. 1 depends on the game
unreal idol
Ohhh so this is all player made stuff
slim thorn
(technically the generation code is different from the client, but that's also easy)
gaunt marten
Correct!
slim thorn
yeah these are all game mods talking to other game mods
cerulean herald
would the games have to be legally purchased, or do pirated/emulated games work with this too
slim thorn
pirated games work but don't tell anyone on the AP server you're pirating lol
gaunt marten
Usually the people playing archipelago do not make archipelago mods, they just play mods other people made
unreal idol
I see. I didnt realize it was multiple game mods
gaunt marten
There are hundreds of games modded to integrate with archipelago
frozen gate
oh so like with Dragon Warrior it's hooked up to that one randomizer mod that was for the game itself
unreal idol
pirated games work but don't tell anyone on the AP server you're pirating lol
Huh lmao
frozen gate
or kh2's randomizer?
rugged flax
would the games have to be legally purchased, or do pirated/emulated games work ...
Emulation works
Rom does Links Awakening DX often
slim thorn
yeah they don't want Nintendo coming after them for modding Zelda
unreal idol
How the hell do they expect people to use this on retro games without pirating them
gaunt marten
or kh2's randomizer?
Yes! Except the standalone randomizer has to be modified to work with archipelago
slim thorn
the AP Discord server has a bunch of documentation on how to legally extract ROM files from your legally owned retro games
if you're inclined to go that route
gaunt marten
How the hell do they expect people to use this on retro games without pirating t...
Would you like to know the formal answer?
slim thorn
of course the game mods / rom patches / etc can't actually detect that so in practice piracy is entirely a personal choice unrelated to how AP itself works
graceful bridge
That's... overly strict.
gaunt marten
That's... overly strict.
They don't want the server to get sued by Nintendo
gaunt marten
You're free to pirate if you like, but they won't endorse it and if you tell them you pirated they'll ban you
slim thorn
yeah, it's not like they can actually stop anyone from playing with pirated copies, but they can't risk any perception of allowing or encouraging that behavior, hence the strictness on Discord
this is probably way too in the weeds now
cerulean herald
I'm guessing they're saying all this to avoid being targeted for promoting piracy?
when in practice, they dont care if you use pirated games for this
graceful bridge
TBH, that disclaimer won't stop Nintendo. 
But yeah, I guess this is a "just don't admit to it" situation. Just annoying they also include people who own the cart, but can't dump it & downloaded the same game.
gaunt marten
Manechat also doesn't want to get sued by Nintendo so please only use legally acquired games in my archipelago
frozen gate
yeah next month ill try this out for an excuse to replay DQ/DW1 or some other games
slim thorn
I have bad news Flitter
gaunt marten
Don't tell me about it
slim thorn
but I'll never tell you what it is
anyway, the main concern is that the whole AP community kinda revolves around the one main AP server (archipelago.gg) that nearly everyone's multiworlds are hosted on
if Nintendo or whoever else decided to get legal and take them down, that potentially wipes out all several hundred AP integrations at once
gaunt marten
(you can self host but most people don't)
slim thorn
so, yes, they're way stricter on piracy than any other game community I've ever seen, for damn good reason
cerulean herald
makes sense
unreal idol
I'll pirate extra hard then to negate their wasted efforts
slim thorn
well, the efforts are to keep AP in existence, not to prevent piracy, so it's not wasted as long as ap.gg remains
unreal idol
Maybe I'll download two copies of super Mario world
cerulean herald
slim thorn
I've actually done that before when I wasn't sure if I wanted to play the English or Japanese version of a game
cerulean herald
did you ended up having a preference
unreal idol
download Japanese version
its literally identical to the English
slim thorn
in that specific case it was because I wasn't sure a friend would be able to join
cerulean herald
well translation is a bit more tricky
cerulean herald
like, if JP isnt your native language, its good to watch/play stuff in JP to keep that language skill intact
unreal idol
Thank you for explaining archipelago
frozen gate
actually also very curious how Guild Wars 2 is supported with this, like what it'll do with that game haha
slim thorn
speaking of which, there's a bug in one of the randos I wanted to fix today...
oh yeah some people have gotten very creative with how to "randomize" a game
frozen gate
ahhh
gaunt marten
actually also very curious how Guild Wars 2 is supported with this, like what it...
For MMOs, it relies on the honor system
"Please don't use any items you didn't get"
frozen gate
fair enough for that
slim thorn
arguably including me, a lot of people thought Outer Wilds was impossible to randomize until I made up a bunch of "items" that the vanilla game technically doesn't have
wind stump
"Please don't use any items you didn't get"
so like the self-imposed "Ironman mode" in FFXIV
rugged flax
OW rando is funny when you trigger your own traps
unreal idol
Archipelago randomizers sound tough to play
slim thorn
people are getting so much mileage out of Supernova Trap and that wasn't even one of the traps I invented
like modded games in general, they're as easy or as hard as you want them to be
gaunt marten
It is exactly as hard as a normal randomizer except sometimes you have to wait for other people
slim thorn
many of these randomizers deliberately have a bunch of options that affect the difficulty
gaunt marten
In manechat, an archipelago game takes one month
cerulean herald
arguably including me, a lot of people thought Outer Wilds was impossible to ran...
what games did mod for AP?
unreal idol
It is exactly as hard as a normal randomizer except sometimes you have to wait f...
Ive never played a randomizer before
gaunt marten
Okay, it is like the vanilla game, except you have to explore the game in ways you never have before
slim thorn
there's probably a game or two that you're regularly replaying anyway which you would have no trouble doing the randomizer for
gaunt marten
what games did mod for AP?
Outer Wilds and Nine Sols
slim thorn
(are the ones I randomized and still maintain)
gaunt marten
If you want to try a randomizer for the first time, I recommend Ship of Harkinian (Ocarina of Time)
Or A Short Hike randomizer, if you've played the vanilla game
unreal idol
I don't have a short hike
gaunt marten
It is currently on sale
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1055540/A_Short_Hike/
unreal idol
I'm not spending money right now
gaunt marten
Then you probably want to randomize OoT
graceful bridge
Final Fantasy 1, originally released on the NES on 1987, is the game that started the beloved, long running series. The randomizer takes the original 8-bit Final Fantasy game for NES (USA edition) and allows you to shuffle important aspects like the location of key items, the difficulty of monsters and fiends, and even the location of towns and dungeons. Part puzzle and part speed-run, it breathes new life into one of the most influential games ever made.
I can't decide if that sounds fun, or incredibly frustrating. 
unreal idol
Please tell me i dont have to do this
slim thorn
part of the fun of a highly customizable randomizer is choosing exactly how much you want to punish yourself
graceful bridge
part of the fun of a highly customizable randomizer is choosing exactly how much...
Yeah, I'd probalby turn off the Town randomizer, as that seems like a recipe for disaster in FF1.
unreal idol
Yeah, I'd probalby turn off the Town randomizer, as that seems like a recipe for...
The more I think about it the less sense randomizers make
slim thorn
what do you mean?
rugged flax
Please tell me i dont have to do this
that's just more anti-piracy-lawsuit legalese speak
unreal idol
Most games are made with an expected progression
gaunt marten
It's not magic. They just move items from one place to another in such a way that still guarantees the game is beatable
mossy flume
Yeah, you can pirate an appropriate ROM and it'll work
slim thorn
it's true that some games work better in randomizers than others
unreal idol
Like how would you beat the deku tree without the slingshot
gaunt marten
Most games are made with an expected progression
The goal of a randomizer is to see exactly how much you can change progression without making the game worse!
unreal idol
And how would you even leave the forest without beating it
slim thorn
metroidvanias and zeldas are often held up as the textbook examples of games that randomize really well, since you can usually "just" get the key items/abilities in a different order and everything just works
unreal idol
The goal of a randomizer is to see exactly how much you can change progression w...
That doesnt sound very fun
slim thorn
but yes a decent OoT randomizer would probably not (always) start in Kokiri Forest for that exact reason
gaunt marten
Deku tree is one of the few places you can't beat without the major item in it, so you can't beat deku tree without slingshot, but
You can leave through Goron city if you find bombs
slim thorn
it's common for randomizers to start you in a different place from the vanilla game, or have your starting point be a (randomizable) option
mossy flume
Randomizers typically have built-in logic checks to prevent progression softlocks
unreal idol
it's common for randomizers to start you in a different place from the vanilla g...
Ohhhh I didnt know that
gaunt marten
You can also leave if you find an ocarina plus a warp song
mossy flume
And yeah, you're likely to solve the game in a different order
gaunt marten
That doesnt sound very fun
It is extremely fun!
slim thorn
for example, my Outer Wilds randomizer lets you choose from half a dozen different starting planets, and my Nine Sols rando has maybe twenty viable start areas
gaunt marten
One of the most fun things to do with a game (after beating it the normal way first)
graceful bridge
it's common for randomizers to start you in a different place from the vanilla g...
Okay, that would be wild in a game like FF1. The game would have to mod in changes to the enemies so that they aren't one-shotting you if it drops you into what was a "late game" zone.
mossy flume
It's fun in that it adds replayability to old games, by allowing the gameplay progression formula to be reshuffled, and thus forcing the player to solve the problem anew
cerulean herald
it's common for randomizers to start you in a different place from the vanilla g...
ohh, yeah I was gonna ask how much does AP change the base game, like does it just add an item to the game and everything else is the same?
mossy flume
I don't do this, but I get the appeal
slim thorn
that depends entirely on that specific game's AP mod
gaunt marten
Okay, that would be wild in a game like FF1. The game would have to mod in chang...
There is an option for that, or you can just accept the challenge and do it without scaling
slim thorn
some AP integrations make very few changes to the base game and some get very elaborate
gaunt marten
FF1 randomizer is extremely configurable
unreal idol
I'd probably get too frustrated at the changes and differences, especially if it ends up locking progress somehow
gaunt marten
It will lock progress many times. Your goal is to find the one line that somehow beats the game
wind stump
I know Epic Battle Fantasy 5 has a "balanced" randomizer that scales enemies based on what area they're in, I think.
you can also make enemies scale with you so grinding isn't an option to autowin
mossy flume
Don't some of them end up requiring speedrun strategies to work?
slim thorn
are you talking about "locking progress" in the sense that the vanilla path is unavailable, and you need to find something else, or that there is no viable way to beat the game at all? (because AP is designed to make "softlocks" impossible)
usually only if you opt-in to speedrun "logic" at generation time
slim thorn
(my Nine Sols rando has a glitch/trick logic option)
unreal idol
are you talking about "locking progress" in the sense that the vanilla path is u...
The latter
gaunt marten
This glitch is not needed for the randomizer but can be used
https://youtu.be/noZt_MF_ch0
mossy flume
The one OoT randomizer playthrough I watched required exploiting glitches to progress
slim thorn
then yeah, you generally don't have to worry about that kind of softlock because, unless one of the AP integrations has a very serious bug, that cannot happen
river veldt
i personally don't like playing randomizers but i like watching Vinesauce Vinny play them
graceful bridge
Hm. I may have to give FF1 or Mega Man a shot. I've never played any of the other games, so I'd be totally lost.
gaunt marten
The one OoT randomizer playthrough I watched required exploiting glitches to pro...
OoT has a glitchless category and a glitched category
unreal idol
then yeah, you generally don't have to worry about that kind of softlock because...
I see i see
gaunt marten
Personally, I do glitchless runs of OoT randomizer
mossy flume
Makes sense
slim thorn
(how you guarantee a softlock can't happen at generation time is the actually technically complicated part of AP, and it is fascinating, but also mostly irrelevant to a first-time player)
mossy flume
Yeah, if I was to play a randomizer I would do glitchless. I know one or two glitches, but I can't really use them.
unreal idol
(how you guarantee a softlock can't happen at generation time is the actually te...
Knowing my luck this would happen to me
slim thorn
I believe most randomizers default to fairly easy settings that should be fine for a first-time randomizer player
(if they don't, that's a skill issue and they should be told to fix it :P)
usually the only prior knowledge assumed is "has played the vanilla game at least once"
slim thorn
Knowing my luck this would happen to me
just don't pick an AP integration that came out five minutes ago and you'll be fine
gaunt marten
Keep in mind that the OoT community definition of "glitchless" is very specific. So:
A trick like wearing hoverboots and smacking the wall with a megaton hammer to recoil and enter the morpha room without longshot is a glitch, but:
holding a cucco and using it to skip the Zora's river waterfall without Zelda's lullaby is not a glitch
unreal idol
I really hope it doesnt expect me to use glitches and exploits
gaunt marten
I really hope it doesnt expect me to use glitches and exploits
You can configure it so none are expected
wind stump
speaking of randomizers
slim thorn
most good randomizers will default to not requiring any glitches precisely because that's obviously a terrible experience if you didn't want it
gaunt marten
I have done both tricks I described:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7zxmihjClo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shR5yahUifs
unreal idol
Is Ship of Harkinian well made in that regard?
slim thorn
would Flitter lie to you
gaunt marten
It's super configurable and has a lot of attention to detail but can be hard to configure
The defaults are pretty good so you can leave them on
unreal idol
I might try downloading it tonight or this weekend
wind stump
i like EBF 
gaunt marten
good luck
slim thorn
incidentally, if the main concern is whether any of these randomizers work and are fun, it's worth noting that you can play them entirely on your own before joining any multiworlds with other people involved
unreal idol
It'll be a while, if ever, until I join any other people
gaunt marten
Solo is chill
slim thorn
the nice thing about solo is never being blocked on anyone but yourself
I had a lot of fun one time doing a solo of all my favorite games at once
unreal idol
Multi-player sounds too complicated for me
gaunt marten
It's the same as solo except it gets easier the less you play
slim thorn
if I ever run out of new games to play and randos to maintain I'll probably do that again
mossy flume
SoH is also generally just the best way to play vanilla OoT on PC these days, since it's how you run it as native PC code instead of emulation
gaunt marten
Downside: Ship of Harkinian has no fast forward
unreal idol
I emulate the vanilla game
mossy flume
But they also add a bunch of QoL improvements and hacks you can toggle on and off
slim thorn
one of my randos explicitly recommends to install another mod for fast-forwarding (since that game has a mod community)
unreal idol
But thats also because I didnt know about SoH until about half an hour ago
mossy flume
SoH has been a major project for a while
They're also working on MM and a bunch of other games as native PC ports
unreal idol
wait how much do you play OoT
Frequently
slim thorn
then literally how
unreal idol
I've beaten it twice just this year actually
slim thorn
SoH is all the news in OoT-land, I don't even play the game and it's all I hear about
unreal idol
I dont mess with randomizers or rom hacks much
graceful bridge
then literally how
It's possible to have a game you play religiously, but never interact with the community. 
slim thorn
next you'll say you've never heard of pannenkoek
unreal idol
then literally how
I dont know how to answer that. I've never heard of it
mossy flume
SoH and similar are the results of the decompilation projects that have been going around
wind stump
lmao it has a wikipedia page
cerulean herald
~~next you'll say you've never heard of pannenkoek~~
but first, we need to talk about parallel universes
mossy flume
("Decompilation" meaning manually translating the ROM's computer code into human-readable and compilable C or assembly code, thus making it modifiable and easy to port to other platforms)
graceful bridge
I don't think I've ever been in a Final Fantasy specific discussion forum, for instance. So I wouldn't know about various hacks or reworks.
unreal idol
I don't think I've ever been in a Final Fantasy specific discussion forum, for i...
Same
slim thorn
tbf the whole FF series is a way bigger topic than just OoT the single game
graceful bridge
tbf the whole FF series is a way bigger topic than just OoT the single game
Right, but my point is that sometimes folks just... dont' get into the fandom aspect of a game we love.
mossy flume
~~next you'll say you've never heard of pannenkoek~~
Of what
unreal idol
Right, but my point is that sometimes folks just... dont' get into the fandom as...
This
slim thorn
mostly same, but this is borderline "never googled it" level of uninvolved
unreal idol
..... how would I Google something ive never heard of
mossy flume
Oh, right
unreal idol
mossy flume
Yeah, I've seen a bunch of his essays
graceful bridge
mostly same, but this is borderline "never googled it" level of uninvolved
I mean, I never would've thought to Google it in the first place. Never really had much interest in hacks / reworks.
slim thorn
I mean googled OoT-related topics, ofc not directly SoH before hearing of it
mossy flume
I just forgot his name
unreal idol
I mean googled OoT-related topics, ofc not directly SoH before hearing of it
I wouldn't have had any reason to Google OoT lately though
mossy flume
I guess for those who don't care about underlying technical details of retro games, they wouldn't necessarily come across the reverse-engineering work that's been going on
But then again, SoH has actually caught the attention of some news headlines
slim thorn
well the pannenkoek thing was more of a joke, it's way easier to play SM64 a hundred times and never look up that kind of content
mossy flume
But six hours of Goomba facts!!
slim thorn
SoH seemed odder because in order to play (original N64) OoT at all, for most of us you have to emulate it, which means looking up roms and emulators, and that's gonna send you to all the places that also mention alternatives like SoH exist
but anyway we can move on from that
mossy flume
You can't go wrong with six hours of Goomba facts!
graceful bridge
I only recently got into emulating old games, so this is a whole area I've not explored before.
unreal idol
SoH seemed odder because in order to play (original N64) OoT at all, for most of...
I've had my OoT ROM for like 12 years
slim thorn
damn
slim thorn
ok that's impressive
I don't think I have any games that lasted that long
I've re-bought or re-pirated some games from that far back but not continuously held onto
unreal idol
But yeah I've never once heard of SoH until today
slim thorn
(especially now that PC can run/emulate everything the original consoles are just not worth it for me)
unreal idol
None of the ROM sites I use really mentioned stuff like that
mossy flume
I still have a bunch of game carts and CDs from the 90s 
...I've had to re-buy a bunch of them, though.
graceful bridge
I think I still have my original FF1 cart somewhere. It's the very first game I ever bought myself, couldn't stand to part with it.
Man, if I do still have it, I need to like frame it or something.
slim thorn
I have no idea what my literal first game was
mossy flume
-# Alas, the first game I bought myself was taken from me long ago...
graceful bridge
The very first game I ever played was this brand new thing called "Pac Man". 
slim thorn
...actually, I do have memories of playing bits of SMW at a day care facility
mossy flume
I think mine bought with my own earned money had to have been a GBA game?
Mayyyybe a GBC game, but more likely either a GBA or GC game. GB/GBC and N64 games were bought by my brother and my parents.
graceful bridge
But yeah, I read some article about FF1 and became obsessed with it. Used my birthday money to buy the cart... and we didn't have an NES yet, I just asked my parents for one for Christmas that year.
hushed onyx
I don't know about my literal first game, but the first one that was important was Sim City 2000.
slim thorn
how did you feel when they immediately ditched the "Final" part of the title and made a sequel
hushed onyx
Which reflects, or is reflected, how I play a lot of games and which games I like
mossy flume
Remember when we could just be recklessly excited about a game and get absorbed into learning everything about it for months on end 
unreal idol
Yes
slim thorn
yeah so about me spending 2+ years modding games
hushed onyx
(And also which systems I used, i.e. that I have always been a PC person and never really touched consoles)
slim thorn
the magic ain't dead yet
mossy flume
Alas, it's been smothered in me 
graceful bridge
how did you feel when they immediately ditched the "Final" part of the title and...
Was never an issue for me. I think I was slightly confused, but just happy they kept making more.
mossy flume
Brain just goes "Why aren't you trying to build a product, put this down and get back to work"
graceful bridge
I think my understanding was "Oh, this is a different world, so it's their final story."
slim thorn
I guess I do think of my mods as a "product", but obv not in the moneymaking sense, just in the "there's only one of me and oh god literally tens of thousands of them, I'm gonna need proper documentation and stuff" sense
slim thorn
oooh my OW rando passed 18k downloads
mossy flume
Except for the one time some random people asked for a silly Discord bot, that got me going until that was done
slim thorn
that's not a bot I've used, right?
mossy flume
Nope
river veldt
my first game was Super Mario World
mossy flume
Basically from a small side mechanic in a Pokémon Mystery Dungeon game
slender wolf
Simcity 2000 was amongst my first tho
mossy flume
Snrk, okay that's funny
graceful bridge
On a completely different topic, apparently Valve learned their lesson from the botched Steam Controller release:
https://store.steampowered.com/news/group/45479024/view/702141174212725149
winter cargo
I missed a discussion about SoH because I was busy with my niece
winter cargo
I mean GPU manufacturers have given up on consumer GPUs
mossy flume
I don't care if I have to wait like 15 months, at least let me get in line so I don't have to compete with extremely well funded botnets
slender wolf
I did buy mine in store
graceful bridge
I mean GPU manufacturers have given up on consumer GPUs
One reason I'm considering a Steam Machine or Mac Mini for my next computer.
slender wolf
The store had it under msrp
slim thorn
I'm just going to pray nothing breaks so I can simply wait out the weird GPU bubble we're in
slender wolf
Basically same. But my steam deck sd card already broke
So I had to buy a $420 2tb sd card
gaunt marten
Just play without a GPU
slender wolf
mossy flume
I'm lucky enough to where I can wait it out, so long as nothing spontaneously breaks
Micro Center is surprisingly well stocked these days
slender wolf
I have a backup 6700 xt I can use if my gpu does break
slim thorn
actually should we be calling it a GPU bubble instead of an AI bubble? because the circular funding of those piles of GPUs not even installed in any data centers yet is probably the weakest link in the chain
slender wolf
If my cpu breaks… uhhh… 
slender wolf
actually should we be calling it a GPU bubble instead of an AI bubble? because t...
Mostly the bubble is ram and nand
Gpu prices haven’t gone up as bad, especially for low end cards
graceful bridge
My motherboard on my desktop is slowly dying. My audio ports no longer work, and the USB 2 header to my case died a while back.
mossy flume
But I'm also kinda capped on how far I can upgrade my desktop's GPU... because of EVGA's very stupid motherboard bug that makes it incompatible with 5000 series GPUs
slender wolf
The 5060 is like, $20 above msrp?
slim thorn
oh you're talking about consumer prices, right
slender wolf
But ram and nand is like triple
slim thorn
I was alluding to those high-end GPUs exclusively for LLM data centers, there's absolutely a bubble of those
slender wolf
Oh yeah, I’ve heard some of em don’t even do rasterization?
mossy flume
So I need to make it live long enough to survive the RAM apocalypse before I can rebuild it
slender wolf
They’re like npu only?
mossy flume
Yep
slender wolf
So gpu might be a bit of a misonomer for some of them
unreal idol
It'll be nice when these AI leeches exit my hobby and computer hardware can become affordable
mossy flume
They don't have video output ports
slender wolf
They don't have video output ports
Don’t some of em also stock up on different core types in such a way even if you got them to make a video output they’d suck at it
mossy flume
Correct
slender wolf
Because they overload on ai and such cores
slim thorn
I suppose we technically should've called them all Parallel Processing Units, but that likely wouldn't have caught on because too many people can't say "PP" with a straight face
slender wolf
There is npu for gpus with just the npu thing
Neural processing unit
Some of NVIDIA’s cards are basically this
slim thorn
(if it wasn't clear, I am very aware NPUs exist, I was just commenting on the nomenclature)
slim thorn
I wonder if NVIDIA considered pretending the N in NPU stands for NVIDIA
mossy flume
Picture Processing Unit, I believe it was
unreal idol
The heck is an NPU
slender wolf
Yep.
mossy flume
Neural Processing Unit
slender wolf
Which predates the gpu, since NVIDIA coined that in 1999 or so.
unreal idol
The heck is a neural processing unit
slim thorn
a chip specialized for evaluating neural networks
I could've sworn we had this conversation with you already
mossy flume
NPUs are like GPUs, but they specialize in the kinds of mathematical operations that AI and machine learning uses
cerulean herald
I wonder if NVIDIA considered pretending the N in NPU stands for NVIDIA
then what does NVIDIA stand for 
unreal idol
I definitely dont remember it
slim thorn
oh well maybe I'm mixing you up with one of the other twenty people who didn't know what an NPU was before hearing it here
mossy flume
Some smartphones, like the iPhone, have had NPU cores in them for a long while, even before this modern AI craze. It's just that nobody really cared.
slender wolf
Pixels also have npus, and nowadays google has a model based on Gemini running on it, iirc.
mossy flume
Yep
gaunt marten
Gemma 4
cerulean herald
Gemini
mossy flume
It's how the Pixel can do LLM stuff locally, without needing to ping Google servers
it's also how its passive music recognition system works
slender wolf
Apple also has some of that but they don’t have it for an LLM model afaik
mossy flume
They have a local Shazam-like database on Pixel phones
slender wolf
The machine translation feature on the iPhone uses it I think
mossy flume
It checks the local database before hitting Google servers
slender wolf
(The iPhones npu)
mossy flume
Yeah
slender wolf
So it’s not unused but nothing really trendy yet
mossy flume
The iPhone NPU is used for Siri (sometimes), part of the camera's image processing, and for machine translation when done locally
It'll be used a lot more in iOS 27
slender wolf
Is it used for some of the photo editing features in the photo app?
Google uses theirs for that
And I think on Mac’s, third party photo editors use it for some of those things
mossy flume
I don't know about the editing features, but the native post-processing for sure. Some editing might do it, like the "delete this thing in the picture" feature.
slender wolf
(Like denoising and upscaling)
mossy flume
But that could use the GPU
slender wolf
Yeah idk.
mossy flume
My understanding is that Apple underuses the NPUs, but I don't really know for sure
slender wolf
They do
mossy flume
They have damn good GPUs, so...
cerulean herald
they prefer iPUs instead
mossy flume
Heh
slender wolf
It also woudl make sense to use both the gpu and npu in concert, I feel like, but I don’t think apple APIs real make that a thing
And apple doesnt do it
hushed onyx
Is it used for some of the photo editing features in the photo app?
I feel like Pixelmator Pro uses it for their ML-based up/downscaling feature, at least. I noticed significant improvements in performance and efficiency of that feature when I got my current (M2) MBA with an NPU versus my previous 2019 Intel MBP, although that may just be because the M2 is more performant in general.
mossy flume
It does
slender wolf
I think the video upscaler topaz makes also uses it
hushed onyx
I use it...way more than I ought to, because I'm constantly playing with making images I find online my Mac/iPad/phone wallpapers, and I pretty much always rescale them to standardized sizes before doing that.
river veldt
Doom 2016 replay finished 
gaunt marten
That was fast
wind stump
Oh my gawd it's the final boss of Underkeep! 
river veldt
That was fast
i try to do it as fast as i can so i can get to Eternal asap 
it's still a great game tho
cerulean herald
cap out here being a Doom speedrunner
river veldt
this part of the credits is still pretty cool
gaunt marten
This is like Rogue Legacy 2
When you beat the game, the last thing a character says is "Rogue's Legacy"
And then credits roll
river veldt
what are we some kind of Rogue's Legacy
gaunt marten
Yes
In the game you play as a guy, die, then play his children who continue his legacy
river veldt
i appreciated this Raiders reference in 2016
wheat aurora
This is like Rogue Legacy 2
So would you say that rogue legacy 2 is rogue legacy's legacy?
if it's particularly different, you could even say that rogue legacy is rogue legacy's rogue legacy. Or (rogue legacy)².
gaunt marten
It's a much better game than the original and established its own separate legacy
cerulean herald
i appreciated this Raiders reference in 2016
what is Raiders
river veldt
Raiders of the Lost Ark ? Indiana Jones ?
river veldt
the picture on the right is from one of my favorite scenes of all time
wheat aurora
So you're saying that rogue legacy's rogue legacy's legacy is good
river veldt
everyone who likes movies should watch Raiders of the Lost Ark at least once, it's basically perfect
unreal idol
I should watch the Indiana Jones movies sometime
cerulean herald
same, maybe LOTR too 
unreal idol
That too
river veldt
I should watch the Indiana Jones movies sometime
just watch the first 3
ignore 4 and 5
unreal idol
They are on the maybe/eventually list
unreal idol
just watch the first 3
Just like Star Wars, perfect
river veldt
yeah basically
mossy flume
Crystal Skull was so weird
river veldt
i have a huge soft spot for Crystal Skull but that's only because it was my first Indy movie
mossy flume
I love the original trilogy, though
Lots of good old fashioned nazi punching going on
river veldt
true
unreal idol
The world could use more nazi punching
river veldt
Great Circle is actually a pretty good followup to the Original Trilogy
mossy flume
I only saw it once, I need to watch it again sometime
river veldt
Great Circle is a game
mossy flume
OH RIGHT
Lawl
I need to actually PLAY that
But yeah, fifth movie I need to see again
green fulcrum
At least it's better than Crystal Skull
river veldt
Crystal Skull has some good bits
i like the opening at the warehouse a lot
and uh
um
green fulcrum
Lol
river veldt
Indy and Marion still have good chemistry
i cant think of anything else
ok so it has 2 good bits
gaunt marten
And the fact that the movie ends eventually
river veldt
also i didn't mind it being aliens
gaunt marten
Did you mind the skull being crystal?
gaunt marten
None of me have
river veldt
are you allowed to drink alcohol ?
gaunt marten
Pretty sure I would get in a lot of trouble unless I drank it in a different country
dapper cedar
talk's getting Sweep yet more excited to play the new Indiana Jones game, 'bout five days away now. my GPU can't raytrace and the game requires that, so i'm getting the Switch 2 version for it's the only thing i own that will run it (physical has the whole base game on the card aswell, not a game-key 
)
slender wolf
talk's getting Sweep yet more excited to play the new Indiana Jones game, 'bout ...
Interestingly, on Linux , the game can run on some non raytraced gpus from AMD
Like the rx 580 and rx 5700 xt and the Vega 56 and 64
The Linux driver emulates the ray tracing
dapper cedar
i do actually have the 5700 XT, been with it since the end of 2019 and been too stubborn to get anything else... if it weren't coming to Switwoch i'd consider Linux as an option, but admittedly it scares me a little too
unreal idol
Watching the Star Fox trailer
Holy shit that Bomb effect is so fucking weak and pathetic
But the expanded cutscenes and stuff look great
green fulcrum
Yeah, the cutscenes are genuinely great, no complaints there
fickle garnet
I wish I had a switch 2 to play it on when it comes out😔
I dont mind the more realistic designs for the characters ngl
I just wanna see Krystal
unreal idol
Despite everythingm, I am optimistic
I was expecting far worse
The environments look great, and it looks like they are really expanding the story telling and characterization
fickle garnet
I really like that they're doing that
unreal idol
wait it's coming out in june
One thing I should note, most/all of the voices and voice delivery sound good or great
And I think that's incredibly important for them to nail right, because Starfox 64 was the first N64 game to have that much voice acting
slim thorn
plus, how are they gonna get people clamoring for a proper new SF game if they don't endear new players to the characters
fickle garnet
Yeah
I've never actually played star fox much, so I'm excited for this
I want to play Adventure. Mostly for Krystal
I have biases for certian characters
cerulean herald
mossy flume
I should replay Adventure. I only ever played it once, way back when it was new
…oh damn, Adventure is missing. Heck. Well I guess that’s one of the GC games that went MIA during my last move…
fickle garnet
hushed onyx
indeed.
mossy flume
Something like 5-10 GC games went missing in the move (along with all of my GC consoles, some Wii games, some DS games, various accessories, and some GBC and GBA carts as well) and I haven’t been able to really figure out everything that was involved in that conveniently missing box >_>
fresh bane
~~I just wanna see Krystal~~
They showed Krystal in the trailer alongside Assault and Adventure so, with any luck, the idea would probably be to make a new original sequel to those games after this
Me personally, I'm thinking of finally seeing what the hell this franchise is about and maybe play Starfox 2
river veldt
do people actually like Adventures or do they just like Krystal
fresh bane
People always go on about how incredible those games are so I'm assuming both
mossy flume
I unironically like Adventure…
Really? I’ve only ever heard hate for Adventure 
It’s a little rough around the edges here and there and it sure is a weird change of pace for the franchise, but I thought it was fun anyway. And I thought it had some interesting ideas.
river veldt
huh apparently Adventures was developed by Rare and was their last Nintendo released game
mossy flume
I like the style of adventure game that it is, so it inherently appeals to me
fresh bane
Really? I’ve only ever heard hate for Adventure <a:izzywhat:891381404741550130>
Maybe within the Starfox community, in a sort of "people hate Zelda 2 because it's not like Zelda 1 but it's still a good game by itself" way
slim thorn
What I heard was Adventure's a mixed bag even by the standards of the time (troubled production and all) and would probably have been forgotten long ago if not for Krystal. Not bad, just not particularly great.
fresh bane
Again, I don't know anything about Starfox
river veldt
sad we never got Banjo Threeie and Rare was banished to making Sea of Thieves
mossy flume
Even outside the community 
Like it was just the “famously bad Nintendo game”
It was the first Star Fox game I played in earnest, though
river veldt
ive only ever played the original Star Fox and that was only for about 30 minutes because it gave me a headache
the soundtrack was realy great on that game though
mossy flume
What I heard was Adventure's a mixed bag even by the standards of the time (trou...
Yeah, I think it was also that Nintendo showed up and made Rare change it to be a Star Fox game. The story I heard is that it was originally an original IP, and when it was pitched/demoed to Nintendo during development they suggested that it should be a SF game to boost sales.
(Same sort of thing that happened to Metroid Federation Force)
slim thorn
yep, "Dinosaur Planet" or something
mossy flume
They kept the “Dinosaur Planet” name for the primary planet, amusingly. But yeah, that’s what it was originally code named as
slim thorn
wasn't Krystal supposed to be the player character before it got rebranded
mossy flume
I think so
And then Krystal just got stuffed into a crystal prison at the end of the prologue/tutorial and then you play as Fox for the rest of it
rancid herald
krystal has main character energy for sure. If this was an anime she'd be in a class room full of red foxes, the only one with blue fur
river veldt
if only Nintendo knew how popular Krystal would be
mossy flume
And Fox is all “wow she’s pretty, guess I better rescue her”
slim thorn
And then Krystal just got stuffed into a crystal prison at the end of the prolog...
yeah, without any prior attachment to her, knowing that they fridged her literally before her game came out doesn't exactly compel me to examine the source material
river veldt
And Fox is all “wow she’s pretty, guess I better rescue her” <:rdsnrk:5877803293...
honestly real
mossy flume
Also they had a weird constructed language made for the voiceovers
rancid herald
a real language or a simlish?
river veldt
you mean you don't speak fluent simlish ?
mossy flume
It seemed to have some actual structure, so it’s some sort of proto-language
rancid herald
I think simlish has one too
mossy flume
Also it would weave in your localized spoken language in it, so you’d get “Dinosaur noises Dinosaur Planet dino noises Kazoa more noises”
*kazoa being a proper noun
rancid herald
it's probably rather hard to make true nonsense
mossy flume
Simlish has some rules!
But I think they added more structure to it than Simlish has
river veldt
like how the minions have a language made up of like, french, english, spanish, and gibberish
rancid herald
the four languages
river veldt
true
mossy flume
Meanwhile, in Metroid Dread, MercurySteam made a real functional language for Chozo which is heavily influenced by Spanish.
river veldt
that's so cool
mossy flume
It’s thorough enough to where fans have figured out how to learn it, and so there’s a bunch of documentation out there for it’s writing system and its phonetics and known dictionary
hushed onyx
They showed Krystal in the trailer alongside Assault and Adventure so, with any ...
I missed that
river veldt
It’s thorough enough to where fans have figured out how to learn it, and so ther...
so kind of like Klingon or Huttese ?
mossy flume
Yeah
I have the PDF somewhere…
But yeah, all the spoken and written Chozo in Dread can be translated directly to English. 
cerulean herald
mossy flume
Found it. There’s also an epub, a fonts file, and calligraphy brushes
river veldt
iirc the Sheikah in BotW can also be translated which is cool
mossy flume
Yeah I think that’s also true!
fresh bane
Meanwhile, in Metroid Dread, MercurySteam made a real functional language for Ch...
MercurySteam and Samus' VA are both Spanish
As in Spain
mossy flume
Chozo used to be nonsense, but then Dread rigorized it. BotW did the same with Hylian / Sheikah.
Yes I know
fresh bane
The weird thing is a different VA also recorded Samus' scream in Dread, I think it was the VA director
So she has two voices technically
MercurySteam had a bit of a controversy speaking about the working conditions for Dread a while ago I hope it didn't result in anything too serious because I don't want to see a different team take on a new Metroid, I think they're the perfect studio
Nikki also voiced a different metroidvania protagonist for Eden Genesis and the team actually gifted her a drawing of herself as Samus which is really cute
mossy flume
The weird thing is a different VA also recorded Samus' scream in Dread, I think ...
That hecking scream, man.
So visceral.
fresh bane
Holly Renaut is the VA who did the scream, but Nikki said that she did record it too, so it's likely they just didn't use her take for whatever reason and Holly did it instead
mossy flume
Now that I didn't know
fresh bane
Maybe it just didn't sound right, it's not the first time characters have two voices
In MLP a bunch of characters are voiced by completely different VAs when singing vs when just acting
mossy flume
Yeah, sometimes that's just how it goes
fresh bane
I'm pretty sure Rebecca Shoichet did the singing voice for Twilight even before EQG which is pretty funny to think about
mossy flume
CCP Games renaming itself and going independent, that’s kinda surprising news.
Also, Gemini’s going to learn how to play EVE.
Part of the soundtrack is already out
fresh bane
uhhhhhh...
huh
Dante's calling, he's suing for plagiarism /s
The RE9 DLC is essentially a roguelike battle mode, where Leon Kennedy has to use randomized weapons to get through each area as quickly as possible. “Use glowing doors to advance to different areas! Enemies become tougher the farther you go. Utilize special abilities and random weapons.”
river veldt
damn i hope Jerma plays this
winter cargo
do people actually like Adventures or do they just like Krystal
I just like Krystal
fickle garnet
Kinda sad it's not mercenaries. I hope they add extra characters to it
mossy flume
How in the world did they stuff the zombie into the cart? Also the zombie looks weirdly small?
quiet swift
The stuffing part, dunno. Kid zombies have been a thing for a while though
unreal idol
Now all I can think about is a zombie baby i saw in a YT video the other day
sacred grove
Pushing carts into mobs makes a lot of them sit. Vanilla mechanic
Though I might be thinking of boats. Maybe it's both
rugged flax
it's both
you can trap mobs in minecarts
sacred grove
But yeah, vanilla Minecraft has a surprising number of exploitable systems interactions
rugged flax
that was also one specific version where there was a bug that caused minecarts on circular tracks like that to infinitely accelerate and you could make minecart launchers like they did in the video
just yeet into the distance
mossy flume
it's both
you can trap mobs in minecarts
Huh, I never knew this
Then again I assume most of what's in Minecraft today is stuff I never knew about, since the last time I was actually paying attention was circa 2012
cerulean herald
yeah then you missed out on a lot of new features
sacred grove
Mojang develops the game in a frustrating way these days, but the core stuff that's already there almost never changes, for better or worse
It's something familiar that you can always come back to after months or years of absence before you put it down again
river veldt
https://bsky.app/profile/mandateofheaven.bsky.social/post/3mlcbp7dhe22y
crying
glad girder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB1p3_FjsTE @wind stump @river veldt new half life theory video and HOLY SHIT
TL;DR, also possible HL3 spoilers: ||the Borealis and the bootstrap device are part of a bootstrap paradox where the combine and aperture science both copied technology from the borealis, inspiring the other. like skynet in terminator||
fresh bane
something something this is what no sequel for 20 years does to a person
cerulean herald
if you can be silking your song
then we should be halving our life
HL3 tomorrow
hasty patio
bronze abyss
steins gate is getting a remake right before my bday,might be a good opportunity to finally get into it
cerulean herald
I read your text, so then why did I still tried clicking the play button 
fresh bane
(Can't post Tweets so here's a picture of one.)
oh boy this surely most definitely will not fuel people being insufferable about the designs on the internet for sure
green fulcrum
I read your text, so then why did I still tried clicking the play button <:twifa...
(This is lighthearted, love ya Dao)
fresh bane
(Can't post Tweets so here's a picture of one.)
he certainly doesn't seem to be as negative on this as some of these headlines make it seem though
cerulean herald
IGN at it again
fresh bane
Good morning! 😃
It was a remake of "Star Fox 64"!
I'm so proud! Thank you, Miyamoto-san! 😭😭😭‼
Because Fox's expression when he first meets Mario in the movie version is the best!! The way they act hostile towards each other for a moment but then quickly come to understand each other is brilliant!!
Personally, I prefer the movie version, but I thought this one was good too because it had a clear direction!
as usual it's not what the headline is actually implying
cerulean herald
Mario Movie version of Fox is certainly more cartoony, which fits the film
idk anything about Starfox, but I'm guessing they want a more serous tone 
at least compared to the Mario Galaxy Movie
fresh bane
for what it's worth I like the Mario Galaxy design for Fox, but it looks nothing like his most well known Smash design so I don't know what people are going on about
green fulcrum
I prefer the more cartoony version
cunning galleon
They look like fantastic mr. fox
fresh bane
In other non-furry related news, apparently OG Warcraft 3 is back?
As in, oficially back, you can launch OG Warcraft 3 if you own the remastered
gaunt marten
If you own the original but not the remastered, you can't play warcraft at all anymore
Thank you blizzard
green fulcrum
Weeeeeeeell...funny thing about that, I think I have a pirated copy of OG Warcraft 3 (including Frozen Throne) and it's not connected to any Battlenet account, so in theory it should play normally.
gaunt marten
Yeah, pirating still works. It's people who gave Blizzard money that got fucked over
fresh bane
the most fucked up part is that if you had the original Warcraft 3, even the disc, the original disc version, if you installed it while connected to the internet at all it would automatically try to open it through the Blizzard launcher and try to update it which would permanently change it to the remastered version IIRC
gaunt marten
Is the disc rewritable?
fresh bane
so people were doing all sorts of tricks to try to install the original version and keep it on a specific version that would not automatically update
fresh bane
Is the disc rewritable?
No not the actual disc data but the files in your computer, you'd basically be stuck with it recognizing the game as the Reforged version instead and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't even let you play if you didn't actually own Reforged because the original was just completely de-listed
You needed to download a patch separately because if you tried to patch original WC3 to the latest version it would update it to Reforged instead so you needed to do the entire process offline
the Legacy version they put up on their launcher seems to be the version before Reforged so that's also good
green fulcrum
Honestly, I should check to see if the files for the game are intact and playable. I miss playing Warcraft 3, it was fun
fresh bane
I've definitely been thinking of playing through Warcraft 3 for real recently, WC3 was one of my childhood games alongside SW Battlefront 2 but I was like, 7 when I was playing that so I understandably wasn't exactly picking up on any story details or anything like that
I want to fully take it all in and play through the entire thing and actually pay attention this time
uneven epoch
me and my brother played a pokemon mod within warcraft 3 way back when. i preferred when we played homm3 instead, but it was fun nonetheless
(mostly because at least i actually beat him here and there when it was homm3, unlike every other game 
)
green fulcrum
Oh, I need to get HoMM3 too, including that high quality community patch that adds the pirate town.
gaunt marten
Heroes of Might and Magic 3 was where I learned the word Zounds
fresh bane
If I can recommend another RTS game the Age of Mythology remaster is pretty solid too...
speaking of RTS's, I have to remember to check out Dawn of War
you can play as the cool space battle nuns so therefore I'm interested
very cool
dense crypt
Get the definitive edition, it's nice and fresh and much more stable
fresh bane
I don't think that one was even out when I bought the one I have on GOG during a sale years ago, I have whichever one was available before that but it came with all the expansions anyways so hey
gaunt marten
https://lostinlocalization.com/yakuza-zero-pager-codes/ @slim thorn might like this
slim thorn
oh nice
I was vaguely aware they had a version of this but didn't know the rules or what it was called
indigo pine
iron nest reminds me of redcon somewhat
hushed onyx
I was reminded today that the shift from a square to a hexagonal grid between Civilization IV and Civilization V was really controversial at the time, but now hex maps seem almost traditional for Civilization-style games
Not only all of the subsequent Civilization games (VI, VII, and Beyond Earth), but also Old World and Endless Legend use hex maps, IIRC.
arctic fern
hex makes more sense
slim thorn
it is so difficult to separate "I don't like it because it's different" from whether the thing is actually good or bad for most players
arctic fern
it was controversial at the time because it was a drastic shift in tactics and theme from the prior games
hushed onyx
With Civilization V you also had the shift to one unit per tile instead of army stacks (and obviously how you organize and control armies is a key part of 4X gameplay).
arctic fern
that was another drastic shift, aye
in civ 4, you could fight back against tanks with warriors if you had a 200 stack of them
hushed onyx
I think that works better in Old World (which is set in the world of antiquity, the Iron Age to just before the birth of Islam more or less) than actual Civilization, because if you start thinking about the latter each tile has to be...pretty darned big. Admittedly, in Old World they're still pretty dang big, but not as absurdly big.
arctic fern
sorry?
hushed onyx
(In practice I like Paradox and Total War games better than either 
)
arctic fern
whats old world
gaunt marten
hushed onyx
It's a Civilization-like strategy game, made actually by a lot of the people who worked on Civilization IV, which as I said concentrates on antiquity around the Mediterranean, Mesopotamia, and Persia--lately DLC have extended this to India, Central Asia, and Ethiopia, as well.
wind stump
Pikmin 2 boss music starts playing
MY NOSTALGIAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
wind stump
flarlic
mossy flume
Nintendo announced that the price of the Nintendo Switch 2 will increase by $50 worldwide. It will become $500 on September 1st.
I was wondering how long Nintendo could hold out.
mossy flume
Probably somewhere, but I haven't seen it myself
NSO price is also being bumped up in Japan.
Additional price adjustments are probably incoming.
sacred grove
Steam Controller reservations are open now
unreal idol
bro got demolished by a sabot
I dont remember this from the Zapruder film
mossy flume
Okay I looked it up. The component costs of the Switch 2 are estimated to be about $338 at launch. Then between manufacturing labor, shipping, tariffs, and component cost volatility (they would have had locked in prices, but it has been about a year, so those contracts are probably being adjusted), their margin is easily near zero.
slim thorn
makes sense, so this new hike is probably them going from zero margin to the new zero margin given updated supplier prices
mossy flume
I could buy their margin got to something like $10-$30 profit per console in the worst case scenario, so bumping the price is definitely to protect their margin. Which falls in line with Bank of America’s recent comments about how they should bump the price for that very reason.
Yep
wind stump
me and the crew
fickle garnet
Nintendo announced that the price of the Nintendo Switch 2 will increase by $50 ...
Maybe my dad will be willing to buy me and my sister one before then
Probably not tho
mossy flume
Given updated supplier costs, which we currently don’t have, it’s quite plausible that the rising cost of manufacturing has put Nintendo back to square one on their margins here after the price increase. $338 is a stale number by 12 months.
wind stump
AI!
throws him off a cliff
slender wolf
I'm pretty sure Rebecca Shoichet did the singing voice for Twilight even before ...
In eqg she sings with sunset in a song which is funny because they are both Rebecca
And Rebecca doesnt really bother to make her sunset voice that different from her twilight voice normally
(Since normally they don’t coexist in the same scenes)
Normally Tara is voicing twilight when twilight is interacting with sunset
wind stump
okay this gives me Cobyln vibes and it's kinda cute...
NO MY FIRST DEATHS D:
i know what you are 
visual hill
I'm pretty sure Rebecca Shoichet did the singing voice for Twilight even before ...
that is indeed the case
a handful of characters are voiced and sung by the same VA IIRC
visual hill
Also it would weave in your localized spoken language in it, so you’d get “*Dino...
it's just a ROT13-style thing
visual hill
wasn't Krystal supposed to be the player character before it got rebranded
yes, you played roughly half of Dinosaur Planet as her
I tend to like her side of the planet more, even if the characters have 100% identical movesets/stats/abilities
PS: the Dinosaur Planet recomp is getting a big update with lots of QoL soon™
the decompilation process is going very fast thanks to a new contributor: https://shinx.dev/dino-status/
hushed onyx
it's probably rather hard to make true nonsense
No, it's pretty easy, it would just sound too nonsensical. Think of a database of phonemes--the larger the better, although even just one language's phonemes would probably work--and imagine you strung them together literally randomly. That would be nonsense on stilts for sure, and probably so nonsensical it would be a little too nonsensical.
slim thorn
what's really hard is making the kind of "nonsense" that people find artistically compelling, like Lewis Carroll's works
hushed onyx
Yes, that's definitely the trick, although for an alien language just sounding language-like might be enough.
That's not especially easy, either, but it's easier since you could (theoretically) just use a language hardly anyone knows to get the same effect.
slim thorn
I think a lot about how well Jabberwocky works in part because, if all the made-up words were replaced by normal ones, it'd be painfully generic
cerulean herald
That's not *especially* easy, either, but it's *easier* since you could (theoret...
Star Wars used an IRL language for one of their aliens to speak
winter cargo
*flarlic*
I have bad news for you HC... you started what I believe to be the best Pikmin game
mossy flume
Pokémon Pokopia is now in the top five bestselling spinoffs for the franchise
Everyone wants their Pokemon Minecraft
winter cargo
I want my pokemon "We actually worked on this and optimized it and made it run well" version
unreal idol
I should look into getting that
uneven epoch
if only they did that coveted pmd sky "lets add even more qol" rework. i think their market would explode
winter cargo
Even if I did like Nurse Miriam
mossy flume
if only they did that coveted pmd sky "lets add even more qol" rework. i think t...
That would be nice.
winter cargo
Why not... Explorers DX?
mossy flume
We still need a PMD2 remake. Or just PMD5. One of those.
uneven epoch
the really funny thing would be a new rangers game
unreal idol
I'm cautiously optimistic about winds and waves
mossy flume
Winds and Waves looks very good so far, yeah
unreal idol
I wont be shocked if it's utter crap like Sword and Shield were, but none of the red flags are immediately apparent
winter cargo
I think it would be hilarious if you only got wind or waves in the world depending on the version.
hushed onyx
winter cargo
"Oh no, the Legendary Pokemon that gives you wind is in the Winds version"
winter cargo
THere are hacks for that
uneven epoch
cant wait to drive a honeedge in the antagonist team boss' skull
(i dont think ill actually play the game, its not like i own switch 2)
fickle garnet
RE9's new game mode is fun, I suck at it tho
You can unlock wolf ears for Leon if you beat it
winter cargo
It's funny that Resident Evil, which started a trend, is now putting a trend into its games
I mean technically Romero started it, but the explosion of Zombie games is because Resident Evil was successful
river veldt
god why is Halo 1 so frustrating
cerulean herald
what happened? 
river veldt
idk just this one level is super annoying
there's like no medkits and the weapon selection is lacking to say the least
maybe im just too used to Doom where i have like 8 guns on me at a time
cerulean herald
oh yea I feel that, but for lack of ammo in addition to lack of healing
river veldt
lack of ammo doesn't bother me (my favorite game is Doom Eternal of course it doesn't) but yeah lack of healing drives me crazy
mossy flume
Yeah, Halo 2-onward eschewed the health system in favor of the usual auto-healing system
river veldt
in other shooter news, Wolfenstein 3D turned 34 the other day
mossy flume
So Halo 1 is always a bit jarring to revisit
river veldt
Yeah, Halo 2-onward eschewed the health system in favor of the usual auto-healin...
for this type of game i definitely prefer that
by this type of game i mean slower paced fps sorry if that wasn't clear
mossy flume
I do take the view that Halo 2 gives you too little health, though. (This is a common opinion, I think)
"We upgraded your shields!"
shields are actually worse than before
unreal idol
Goldeneye: Whats a health pickup?
river veldt
for some reason i think about the Valve Guy a lot
this guy
i wonder who he is
according to Valve he was some random guy they found on the street
that's who a lot of Valve's face models were in the early days, just people they got off the street not actual models
cerulean herald
hope that poor dude got paid a lot for having a hole drilled into his head for that
mossy flume
Working in Seattle is tough
fresh bane
The actor for Eli Vance famously was a homeless guy from Seattle and nobody really knows what the hell happened to him and yet he's one of the most beloved and popular characters from Valve's games
mossy flume
But sometimes you just need to get a faucet installed in your skull to pay the bills
river veldt
what about this guy ? he cant even use one of his eyes
fresh bane
He probably got paid a sandwich and 15 bucks to get his face captured by a bunch of cameras and then he just kinda went back to the streets
Nobody even knows his name
a lot of now well known actors got their roles by pure chance at the time in gaming and most of the times it was a one-time gig where you got paid whatever they could manage to pay you
fresh bane
Guy Cihi the voice actor for James Sunderland didn't even actually audition for James, he was in Japan to accompany his daughter to an audition and he just happened to pick up the script for SH2, asked if he could read out a couple lines, and they liked it enough to put him in there
The actors for the original Resident Evil similarly probably thought of the project as a one time thing, a lot of them never came back until very recently where people have been trying to seek them out and get them all together again, all except for Jill's original actress which doesn't want anything to do with the games or the fandom at all
but that's just kinda the way it was at the time, nothing like nowadays at all
river veldt
This guy always scared me as a kid<:flutternatureissofascinating:740289935839330...
remember in Portal 2 when he turns around
freaky af
slim thorn
I do take the view that Halo 2 gives you too little health, though. (This is a c...
indeed, I don't think the health/shield/recharge balance was quite right until Halo 3
worthy rose
well played wow team well played
toxic seal
Stupendium is launching their own game studio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4yu6InNmAE
Website https://stupendiumsoftworks.com/
fickle garnet
Neat
cunning galleon
man rdr is so cool
river veldt
true
bitter stream
I got into the TYR playtest, woo! gonna try some matches and see if it's fun
this is the game if you like tank battles https://store.steampowered.com/app/2445260/Tyr/
wind stump
I have bad news for you HC... you started what I believe to be the best Pikmin g...
It started slow but slowly getting into it I can see why. 
wind stump
"Inedible. Tastes like chicken."
cunning galleon
this is the game if you like tank battles https://store.steampowered.com/app/244...
I do like tank battles!
but my type of tank battles is "Gunner, Heat, PC!", or Gates of Hell Ostfront
cunning galleon
What the rdr2 is fucking hilarious
why did they start DANCING 😭😭
This is amazing
LENNY! Ohhh lENNY
river veldt
LENNY !
cunning galleon
Gret.. Ynnel
cunning galleon
Bro the black horse hosea gave you killed me by jumping off a cliff
cunning galleon
where the fuck did my starter horse go
i dont want horsey mchorse i want tennesse walk
cunning galleon
there he is
river veldt
have you played RDR1 or are you starting with the second one ?
cunning galleon
second one because i think its a prequel
visual hill
personally, I always play games in release order if I intend to play a series
cunning galleon
I also just want to play rdr2 specifically
More preference than release order or anything
I haven't played rdr1 but i have watched playthroughs
All i know is Rockstar does a Mafia
Just a bit early
graceful bridge
Okay, this looks fuckin adorable.
https://youtu.be/UgtcG3Tu4Wg?si=Lzqc8fUfeaHSpr_s
quiet swift
wind stump
this isn't ominous
arctic fern
its fiiiiiiiiine
wind stump
wind stump
fluttershy
wind stump
fickle garnet
I saw a clip of the mutiplayer for the Japanese version of the new StarFox game and it sounded like Wolf was voiced by Jotaro's VA
It was a clip on the Japanese website for the game
winter cargo
Oh, it's Sega, that explains why it has Denuvo
winter cargo
Lance is my pseudonym. I'm supposed to be finishing up a chapter of my book. But noooooo... a twilight princess decomp project dropped
mossy flume
Oh is the decomp working????
hasty patio
winter cargo
Oh is the decomp working????
Playing it right now
I also unwittingly had the instadeath setting on
hasty patio
winter cargo
Me: gets hit by a spider
Music plays
"Whoops"
mossy flume
https://bsky.app/profile/wario64.bsky.social/post/3mlhjfbambk2z
Excellent, thanks
winter cargo
Now all I need is Windwaker
mossy flume
WW decomp is in progress
winter cargo
I know, I'm excited
mossy flume
And I think is pretty close to finished
winter cargo
Oh no, if Windwaker, TP, Jak 3, and GoldenEye all end up coming out in the same year, this book's first draft ain't getting done til 2027
mossy flume
Yep, works on macOS too
Excellent stuff
I’ve been wanting to replay this one
Emulation gets really iffy when you get into the era of games with compute shaders. Compilation stutter bothers me greatly.
Heh, yes, this could stand to get a remaster at some point
craggy vine
https://bsky.app/profile/wario64.bsky.social/post/3mlhjfbambk2z
How much bloom does it have
Genuenly does it have the bloom or did they remove it
(also btw the wii u port of the game was nice but also kinda weird cause it didn't look too much different to the wii version and the wii version could run on a wii u. But I prefered the controlls of the wii u version.)
mossy flume
Genuenly does it have the bloom or did they remove it
It has 3 options: no bloom, the original bloom, and their own custom, modern, high quality bloom.
I actually ended up leaving it on the original because I feel that looks best. Their new high quality bloom is default and is probably what most people will prefer, though.
“Off” looks terrible
I also found that turning off the interpolation fixes some animation timing issues. When the framerate is uncapped, which it is by default, the cutscenes play too quickly.
craggy vine
Uncapped fps is also just often uneccesary in a lot of older games. Like yay I can see that I am getting 500 fps, not like that is doing anyting for me.
I'd probably wanna play with the bloom off, I hated it so much in some scenes
mossy flume
Like sure it’s running much more smoothly, but the cutscenes are running ahead of the soundtrack
craggy vine
It's like everything was glowing
mossy flume
That was kinda the point, but yeah, their high quality bloom fixes that
Turning it off just makes all the colors extremely wrong
Especially in the twilight realm
Like holy moly the assets assumed the highlights would be there
craggy vine
Why is the ground just glowing like aaa
slim thorn
I like how Link sat down while you were taking these
I feel like I'd have to run around in-game with all 3 to really make up my mind but I guess I probably agree "Dusk"/modern bloom looks the best
river veldt
i keep getting excited because i think people are talking about the boomer shooter Dusk 
slim thorn
maybe bloom gets a bad rap from all the games where it's really pointlessly used but here the Twilight realm doesn't feel Twilight-y unless the ground is "glowing like aaa"
but Classic does feel like it's also blurring everything and Dusk solves that
cerulean herald
feels like im in a weird dream
mossy flume
feels like im in a weird dream
Yep, that's the sense I think it's supposed to convey and that's the vibe I kinda want out of it, but I can see and generally agree about why others would prefer the modern version
The blurriness about the original bloom certainly looks better when it's running in a much higher resolution, at least...
slim thorn
at least for me, higher-rez glowing just feels like a higher-rez dream
fresh bane
The bloom worked really well in the original versions of TP I want to say specifically because of the lower output resolution and the actual image on a CRT probably looked way better, there's also surely a specific way the Gamecube rendered the slight double-image effect in a lot of cutscenes which made it work really well because it's a lot fuzzier and the HD version being much crisper just makes it look completely distracting because... well because it's much more crisp and higher definition, a lot of PS2 games for example have a lot of issues with effects like this because even PS3-PS4-PS5 ports just can't really emulate the specific way the PS2 was doing certain effects
The HD version also suffers from the typical issue of HD remasters where everything is much higher definition and a lot of textures are manually redone entirely and definitely look objectively higher fidelity but a lot of the specific contrast of the lighting is gone and everything ends up looking a lot more blended in and softer and much more plain in terms of shading, which probably makes the bloom much worse
cerulean herald
I think TP Zelda might be my favorite Zelda design
fresh bane
I was actually looking at a Starfox comparison video the other day which has a very similar ''problem'' in that everything definitely looks a lot more technically impressive but the lighting is so much weaker and it kinda throws the whole thing off, although I will say games like OOT3D and Majora's Mask had this exact same problem as well but it was completely intentional because they had to account for people using the 3DS outside and everything having to be much brighter and more colorful, etc etc.... which is why I think this time the Starfox remake is gonna work, this time for sure guys...
RE1 on the DS was the exact same in that everything was blown out so much more compared to the original game's more muted palette because it was on the DS and they had to account for screen brightness, it's the one weakness for a lot of portable games
fresh bane
I think TP Zelda might be my favorite Zelda design <:flutternatureissofascinatin...
Maybe I'm weird for this but OOT and TP Zelda are kinda interchangeable for me in terms of design
Both times you kinda don't really get to hang out with Zelda that much at all, much less in TP... she's probably the Zelda you interact with the least I want to say
slim thorn
well, for me "OoT Zelda" includes young Zelda and Sheik
fresh bane
for me the Worlds and Hyrule Warriors Zelda designs are pretty up there...
cerulean herald
is that the one they use for Smash Bros? (the left)
I like it a lot as well
fresh bane
well, for me "OoT Zelda" includes young Zelda and Sheik
Sheik Zelda is pretty good too, at least you get to hang out with her a bit, and they were gonna include her in TP as well but they cut her out....
green fulcrum
for me the Worlds and Hyrule Warriors Zelda designs are pretty up there...
Same, I think they're the prettiest designs, but I also really like her look in Breath of the Wild
fresh bane
is that the one they use for Smash Bros? (the left)
I like it a lot as well
She's the Zelda from the 3DS game A Link Between Worlds but yes people probably know her the most for being ''the Smash Ultimate Zelda''
Oh yeah! Echoes of Wisdom has so many great outfits too
the sleeveless one with the poofy pants is good
cerulean herald
ponytail is a good look
fresh bane
the regular princess dress is basically just the OOT design which I would've liked an original one but I guess there's only so many variations of the Zelda dress you can really come up with plus it's cool seeing it in the classic 2D style at least
chilly mural
the version in smash ultimate is my favourite version of zelda
fresh bane
Same, I think they're the prettiest designs, but I also really like her look in ...
She's cute but the whole time I keep wondering what if it was purple
craggy vine
oh damn what. I see what you mean. The colours are completely different. I guess it was just like, designed with that high amount of bloom in mind.
At least in that image, the original one looks a bit blury compared to that modern version too
craggy vine
i keep getting excited because i think people are talking about the boomer shoot...
I love that game!!!!!
craggy vine
but Classic does feel like it's also blurring everything and Dusk solves that
Yeah perhaps that is also more of my issue with it, it's like such a blurring effect too
mossy flume
I ended up turning off some of the gameplay QoL changes too
Some of them are just backported from the HD version anyway
fresh bane
I got sidetracked talking about which Zelda is the prettiest but I really didn't know or expect the bloom to be tied to the 'brown-ness' of TP, I just thought that was entirely baked into the textures but I'm guessing it's actually a sort of filter like RE5
craggy vine
I see, it literally is the lighting, not like, a post processing effect like I kinda thought it was
mossy flume
Yep
craggy vine
Also with the thing of DS games kinda needing to be brighter... I had one game on DS, Scooby Doo, which I also had the same one of on PS2 and it was somehow almost the same except for the polygon count from what I remember, and like... The lighting in a lot of places definitely made that game hard to play when I was away from home.
mossy flume
More samples, also in the twilight realm
Twilight realm really just loses its entire ambiance without it
craggy vine
It's like it just lost an entire light source
I would try playing it without the bloom, but it definitely seems that it does change things
I mean I do love that clean look that dusk gives, and even that darkness. a bit. But yeah I can see how it might make the twilight sparkle realm seem off
slim thorn
I also have the bgm for TP's twilight areas on mental loop every time I look at these screenshots
and it sounds very silly on the bloom-less screenshots
craggy vine
I forget what the music is I admit
mossy flume
craggy vine
pf yeah
Oh also, I forgot that this was a gamecube game.. I actually thought it was only a wii game
slim thorn
iirc the HD version was Wii
mossy flume
The HD version was on the WiiU