IEMs vs ANC for Noise Cancelling

[night shore]

Hi all!

I am planning on recieving a paycheck very soon and with it I want to get myself a new pair of headphones! I have my eye on the Sony WH1000-XM4/5 but there seems to be alot of noise around which one is actually the most functionally good out of the two.

I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts!

[elder ocean]

I would probably not go with Sony at all, though I am biased towards Sennheiser and others alike

[signal inlet]

I personally enjoy having WH-1000XM3 around, they work well when the ANC is not doing weird supersonic shenanigans when insides get moderately wet (I believe this problem was solved in the later batches, I got my ones at the release). The ANC itself works wonders in the subway and in a buzzing open office (didn't hear a thing with music on), so I guess either one is fine bc the previous ones were good enough already IMO.

Also a minor gripe: the touch sensor used to control them tends to misbehave at lower temps (sub-zero)

I don't really care for other stuff tho, so YMMV

The choise was Bose vs Sony for me, other ones were not up to par

[sturdy grove]

could you outline a bit what specifically you're looking for? wireless or don't care, outside noise isolation or ANC or nothing? it would make sense to assume wirelss ANC is what you want, but maybe there's a case to be made for some else?

[signal inlet]

is there even wired ANC headset? I would love that if it exists lol

[sturdy grove]

i ask like this due to a few factors: with wireless headphones you're always paying for batteries, Bluetooth DAC and drivers in one, and ANC has a more specific usecase than many might assume, with passive isolation sometimes being far preferable

ANC is specifically good for relatively constant and loud noise, but I've found that a good fitting pair of IEMs actually block out more sound than any ANC I've tried when it's about non-continous sounds

[night shore]

Wireless is good ideally, I want to have ANC yes.

[night shore]

I find that they don't usually have good noise cancelling sets, or do they? Change my mind :)

[night shore]

I find noise to be sometimes overwhelming, so i prefer the silent! So ideally always very quiet

that's why I went towards sony.

[sturdy grove]

all ANC I've tried had a unpleasant pressure for me, so i much prefer the passive and surprisingly impressive isolation of IEMs. if you've ever used good earplugs, the effect is similar though you also get music through them

[night shore]

hm! maybe I just need some IEMs then :)

[sturdy grove]

though I haven't tried the WH- series specifically

[night shore]

what would you recommend, i can spend whatever amount is reasonable.

[signal inlet]

The pressure's still there, but you get used to it in a week or so

I don't really notice it while listening to stuff tho

[sturdy grove]

@gaunt coral recently got some on my recommendation too, and was quite happy.

[signal inlet]

jfyi IEMs tend to damage the eardrums more than over-ears

[sturdy grove]

i personally like the Truthear Zero Red + a separate Bluetooth reciever. the IEMs themselves are around 50 bucks and the Bluetooth reciever around 100

[night shore]

hm. yea

[night shore]

it's a crinacle product, I know them! they seem to be cool

might need a dac for a phone?

[sturdy grove]

i don't remember this being conclusive one way or the other last i looked at some research, do you have a good source?

[night shore]

also what Bluetooth receiver are ya using?

[signal inlet]

not really tbh, it was just a private consultation with my doctor, it can be just confirmation bias on his side

[sturdy grove]

yeah that's what i meant with Bluetooth reciever.

i personally have recently bought my second Qudelix-5K - probably by far the best value out there. it's quality i would expect from a 300$ DAC, but it's around 120$

[gaunt coral]

surprisingly impressive is true, my parents think it's ANC even though the zeros have none

[night shore]

oh nice, I'm looking for something I can probably carry around on a commute btw :)

[sturdy grove]

the consensus as far as I'm aware is that with a good seal and reasonable volume it's fine. but listening too loudly is damaging faster than with over ears

[signal inlet]

I guess that was the intent behind the phrase, yes

[night shore]

I'll take a look, I'd just be concerned about fitting. do they ship with multiple earbuds?

(the earphones)

[gaunt coral]

yes

[sturdy grove]

for the size

[sturdy grove]

a whole set

[sturdy grove]

my hand looks really large there, but it's actually quite average lol

[gaunt coral]

if you're very picky you might have to buy some, but the options seem fine to me (and i don't think there are "in-betweens" that aren't available)

[signal inlet]

I'll steal the reference to my shopping list, looks awesome and the reviews are good

[gaunt coral]

one sec

[night shore]

that's tiny!! wow

[sturdy grove]

the only annoying thing about this setup is that i still have a cable dangling around

but the Qudelix is small enough it can clip to its own cable, looped around the neck once, so it almost feels like a pendant

[night shore]

some reviews say the tips are uncomfortable, any experience with that

[sturdy grove]

i use it while cycling with this setup

[sturdy grove]

i found it took a while for me to find the correct size and way to fit them. it's obviously still something sitting inside your ear, so laying on it or many hours of use can get uncomfortable

i expect i needed the larger ones, when actually it only sealed properly and sat properly deep with the smaller ones

[gaunt coral]

not any more than i would expect? i know that other people are pickier and find their perfect size, then get memory foam tips in that size

[night shore]

ok, gotcha. cause i find earbuds sometimes irritate my ear

[sturdy grove]

i can definitely see how for some ear shapes and sizes it might be uncomfortable tho

[sturdy grove]

earbuds or IEMs? difference is that earbuds sit outside the ear canal, and IEMs sit inside it

not the best picture, but A is a earbud, B and C are styles of IEM, and D is a wrongly inserted IEM

[night shore]

B!

[sturdy grove]

hmm, i can't say then. it's obviously still all up to you and how you balance the risks and rewards. it might be that you're unlucky and it doesn't ever feel fine to you

some people's ears just are that way

[night shore]

I still kinda feel like I might want over ears.

yep, for that reason.

[sturdy grove]

here's a thing tho: i thought the same, that i couldn't do earbuds, till a finally decided to try a proper IEM

and i still quite like over ears, you probably saw the DT770s in my image. over ears have far more spatial recognition so they're far better for gaming for example

and IEMs can feel a bit straining after hours of use.

[night shore]

I did see the DTs

yeah, mainly why I'll probably go over ear, I also dislike the sensation of having earbuds in

[signal inlet]

any earphones do, even my studio Beyerdynamics with super-comfy velour earpads

[sturdy grove]

the nice thing about the Qudelix for me is that it's a normal 3.5mm but has a lot of power, able to drive even 250ohm over ears. so i can use it for both.

but that's not going to help if the goal is noise reduction lol

[signal inlet]

it's a tradeoff balancing game at this point, you choose whatever you consider the most important

[sturdy grove]

variety helps there, a few hours of IEMs while out and about, and a few of over ears at home balances out quite well

[night shore]

I have to bounce but I'll keep thinking about it!

[lofty basalt]

answering the original question, to my mind the XM4s are superior to the XM5s.
Even if they were the same price (they're not, you should pay $100 for some second hand XM4s), sony fucked up the XM5s by trying to copy apple

the XM4s are the last iteration, perhaps the perfection, of the hardware design

the XM5s don't collapse up, it's a WILD retrograde design choice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CsJZxfZsL0

"Sony's headphones have been king of the hill. MK3 added usbc, MK4 added multi device support, but they've essentially looked the same, sounded excellent, and they've been an easy rec as a result.
But the new MK5, on the other hand, are a real departure from the formula".

I am currently wearing XM4s, I chose them even though I could have chosen the XM5s

the XM4s have STAGGERING noise cancellation, noticably better then the XM3, and I wear them in public even when I'm not listening to anything to reduce noise fatigue

the airpods max certainly are the best for noise cancellation, but I can't recommend spending $500 on them, they're not 5x better than the XM4s.

it's noticeable that sony ARE STILL SELLING the XM4s new.
They KNOW the XM5s are risky (maybe they even rushed them out, and know they're comprimised)

to address Laund's point about IEMs, I also recommend them to anyone. I got som KX somethings for $30 and they sounds fantastic.
Note that the XM4s come with a cable so you can plug them in, old school. This allows you to have cabled noise cancelling (as long as you have charged them up)

[night shore]

Interesting point about rushing to market. All the reviews i've seen have said the noise cancellation is better and as someone who gets sensory overload, I feel as if I should gamble with the XM5s as they perform better (apparently) with crowds.

[lofty basalt]

I imagine that is the case

The xm4s are wild though, for noise cancelling

[gaunt coral]

have you tried noise cancelling before? if you haven't, i'd be worried about jumping into noise cancelling with sensory problems

[night shore]

I'm leaning towards taking the gamble and reporting my findings

[night shore]

I have

it's useful to me

[gaunt coral]

nice

[night shore]

Both seem to be good, I know some might be better for certain things (xm4s for folding, xm5s for improved anc) so I think whatever I choose, i should be happy.

[gaunt coral]

the lack of "roomtone" (the collection of background noise and mild reverberations) can be really jarring for some people

[night shore]

Yeah, I know what you mean

[lofty basalt]

Yeah, for me the advantages of the xm4s are price and foldability - if you aren't worried about either of those, the xm5s are better for sure

[night shore]

Mhm, when I reach my saving goal, i'll report back when I get them in the next few weeks!

[plain wharf]

One more happy XM4 owner. My only gripe with it is the microphone. It picks up everything. It is probably made for ANC stuff. But it's shit. I have heard XM5 is better but have not verified. Other than that I agree with tris on stupid design and non-folding thingy

[lofty basalt]

EVERY bluetooth mic is garbage. Even $5 wired knockoff apple buds beat them!

HIGHLY recommend this channel and this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk-Tybi-ihw

if @sturdy grove has piqued your interest about IEMs, this video will keep that train rolling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFv3eThZTo0

after watching I bought some $25 IEMs on PRINCIPLE, they go everywhere with me

[lofty basalt]

and the cheap wired IEMs demoed here have NOTICABLY better microphones than any bluetooth!

[sturdy grove]

dankpods really isn't the best source for IEM info

i really recommend Crinacle

[lofty basalt]

oh yeah? he seems pretty knowledgeable about headphones in general though, not specifically for IEMs

[lofty basalt]

nice, will check them out

[sturdy grove]

yeah, headphones he is but not really IEMs

[night shore]

hi @sturdy grove I've been thinking more and more and maybe I don't actually need the Sony headphones. IEMs seem lighter and alot less expensive, in terms of choosing ones, are the truthear crinacle reds one of the better ones?

[sturdy grove]

well, that depends on how you define better

they're amazing for the 50$ price range

[night shore]

I mean I have 160$ to spend on the setup right now..

[sturdy grove]

but some IEMs go up to the hundreds or thousands of dollars

[sturdy grove]

remember you'll need a Bluetooth DAC

or a USB one if you wanna go cheap

unless you have a headphone jack

[night shore]

I don't have a headphone jack

you mentioned the qudelix 5k

[sturdy grove]

yup, it's the one I'd recommend

but it might not quite fit your budget

together with the IEMs

sidenote: don't order from the official store, you're likely to pay extra import fees with that

[night shore]

ok..

[night shore]

it's 120 + 50, so just about

[sturdy grove]

yeah then it's up to you

tho i have to say I'm not a fan of the original cable that comes with the reds

[night shore]

oh, why?

[sturdy grove]

do you know the thing with 2 tin cans and a string?

like how you can kinda talk into one and hear it if the string is tight

that kinda happens with the original cables, the sound from it dangling around is transmitted somewhat.

[night shore]

oh weird, ok, is there any alternative cables

[sturdy grove]

oh yeah, i got a braided cable, which effectively dampens that down to nothing

[night shore]

IEMs vs ANC for Noise Cancelling

[sturdy grove]

it's like, the IEMs have a 2 pin plug which is one of 2 standards

so you can use any cable with that plug, and there's a bunch

[night shore]

ok that sounds great, do you need to buy any new eartips, I've heard you can buy extra that are potentially more comfortable

[gaunt coral]

i haven't experienced this, for what it's worth

if it's there, it's far less noticeable than other cords I've had with that problem

[gaunt coral]

it's very unlikely that you would need to buy eartips seperately

that's usually a premium thing for people who want the best experience physically possible

[sturdy grove]

yeah since they come with a entire set

even memory foam ones

not worth it to get custom tips for a 50$ pair lol

if you're spending 500 on the IEMs it might be worth it

[plain wharf]

Hey, are there any good Bluetooth DACs you guys recommend. I didn't even know these existed

[sturdy grove]

gonne repeat my recommendation of the Qudelix 5K

it's really probably the best out there