Religion vs Science

[bitter flume]

All of it

Come to tumblr

[full marten]

im gayphobic, i hate gay people

[chrome otter]

obviously not just this event

[umbral wasp]

🚩

[chrome otter]

but i was led to believe that slowly

[bitter flume]

I am also gayphobic
I hate all of The Gays

But it's because I hate everyone, they're just caught in the crossfire 😔
(This was funnier in my head)

[full marten]

based

[umbral wasp]

took me too long to find this damn emoji

[bitter flume]

Why it is :triangular_flag_on_post: lmao

[umbral wasp]

yeah idfk

[candid dune]

Actually, social media is replacing old timey religion because when people use it they feel purpose as they get dopamine from "social interraction", and when thry stop using it they see the horrors of the cold and uncaring and quickly return to social media and stop thinking for themselves just like organized religion.

[humble gull]

Aight, thanks 👌

[umbral wasp]

instead of just :red_flag:

[chrome otter]

i am laundsupportive

[candid dune]

Social media = gen z religion

[chrome otter]

launds are the best

[candid dune]

Doing TikTok dances and posting it is a form of worship

[humble gull]

Undertale is my religion

[bitter flume]

I wish making dopamine-hit programs was illegal, somehow

[humble gull]

May Asriel have mercy on us

[bitter flume]

They really fucked up my brain

[umbral wasp]

aaaaand back on topic: social media is religion change my mind

[bitter flume]

No
https://tenor.com/view/gigachad-chad-gif-20773266

[candid dune]

I only just came to this realization

[humble gull]

In Musk we believe

[candid dune]

Right here

[chrome otter]

MUSKISM

[candid dune]

And I am terrified by this

[bitter flume]

No

Janism

[umbral wasp]

why? based opinion

[humble gull]

Religion makes a comeback in the least expected way possible

[candid dune]

Honestly more terrified that I didn't realize the connection, but reassured that I recognized its evils and turned from it, even without knowing it by name.

[chrome otter]

janism says:

[full marten]

yes, but not always

[umbral wasp]

(i mean specifically post-upvote based social media btw, a chat is like, just a different medium for speech)

[full marten]

and not inherently

[chrome otter]

"one must avoid it for social media is the true demon"

"except if its qts"

[candid dune]

Yes, this isn't "social media" this is a text based communications thing

It's designed for communication, not whatever the fuck social media is designed for

[bitter flume]

I think religion involves more things
I think routine congregation is the central point of religion, and social media is constant addiction
I wouldn't say they're the same

[humble gull]

Why not do both?

[umbral wasp]

id say thats a church thing.

[chrome otter]

composition stream? 🥺

[humble gull]

Twitter church

[umbral wasp]

plenty of people are religious but not part of any church

[candid dune]

The way you worship and interract may be different, but you are encouraged to always think of god in your every action.

[candid dune]

(me)

[umbral wasp]

even that seems like more of a church thing to me

[candid dune]

Hmm, really?

Idk, I thought religion in general had the kind of "part of your regular thought process" vibe

Not that it's an absolute rule

(in any religion that I know of)

[umbral wasp]

idk I'd say you can just pray like, once a week and that's still religion

[candid dune]

Oh yeah 100%

I don't mean you have to do this

Funnily enough, religion has a lot of useful ways of thinking about the world. I highly recommend anyone to analyze and extract the useful bits.

It's like watching the news, having to pick apart the bias and find the nuggets of truth burried in it all

[half glen]

just saw this and gonna make a bit of an insane take

science is as believable and "valid" as religion

our scientific understanding of the world is rooted in the belief that the tools we use to study it and their results are correct, and there is no major mistake/error at the base of the scientific method

religion can be warped and has historically been warped for evil, sure, but so has science

personally im quite icky with religious structures but see no problem with individual belief

[humble gull]

Science was proven on practice, while religion was not

That's the difference

Personally, I'm fine with people having religious believes as long as they only apply those to themselves and not force others to have those (I'm looking at you, church)

[half glen]

every single scientific discovery/advancement up until ~400 years ago was made by religious people

biologists considered themselves to be documenting the creations of god

crucial advancements in the atomic model were made by a french bishop

science as an utilitarian field is not restricted to non-religious people, the only reason it used to be was because freaky popes wanted to put anyone that challenged their political power in a stake

in fact now that i think about it no part of science, ever, says that there can't be no god

youre free to engage in whatever field of science you desire without butting heads with your personal beliefs, as long as they dont involve "god is physical and has supernatural abilities which can be empiricaly measured"

[humble gull]

So what?

[half glen]

well, i see no difference between the advancements they made and advancements by non-religious people

[humble gull]

So what?

This doesn't prove religion to be working in any way, shape or form

[half glen]

science and religion can coexist and cooperate without problem, as long as there aren't any crusade-thirsty popes around, its not a problem with religion itself

[half glen]

neither is non-religiousness lol

what matters is it comforts/helps/does good stuff to the individuals who believe in it

[humble gull]

And I'm fine if you believe in fairy tales to comfort yourself

[half glen]

good

[humble gull]

Believe that ponies are real, for all I care

[half glen]

good

[humble gull]

Yet that doesn't mean it works beyond that

[half glen]

wdym

[humble gull]

There're literally no improvements besides for maybe mental state

[half glen]

okay

how does that make it any different from atheism

[humble gull]

Lack of spiritual believes

[half glen]

ok, and

i see no problem with spiritual beliefs

[humble gull]

"As long as they don't tell you to burn the house down". And oh boy it did

Thankfully, it's not as present as in the past

[half glen]

science can also tell people to burn houses down btw

[humble gull]

Ok, when?

[half glen]

||nazis justified their brutality as the aryan race being simply more evolved and therefore superior to any other. we must therefore kill every unevolved human||

[humble gull]

They were literally religoius

[half glen]

doesnt matter what they actually were, they used supposedly scientific methods to justify their actions

[humble gull]

And their justification is obsurd

[half glen]

doubt burning atheists and "witches" alive was god's given will too

every justification is absurd, religious or not

[full marten]

ffs do i gotta repeat my arguments again 😭😭😭

[full marten]

One can be religious and a scientist. The scientific discoveries of religious people are valid, however their religious beliefs are not and still remain unscientific

[full marten]

therapy

[full marten]

Except it was not correct science of course. I think trying to blame science for dumb things said by a handful of individuals is stupid and a misunderstanding of how science works

I can make a wild claim that sounds like it refers to scientific concepts rather than fantastical religious ones, but that doesn't mean the claim is scientific

[umbral wasp]

i absolutely hate this weird misconception you have that religion is caused by mental health issues. people can be perfectly healthy and in a good state of mind and still be religious.

[half glen]

wasnt saying that

im saying hey if religious people believe in stuff then sure its not in my hand to "correct" them and what not, thats the same as if a religious person tried to "correct" me for my lack of belief for the one true god

[umbral wasp]

I'm talking to Nebula, and its come up multiple times before with him.

[half glen]

oh sorry

[half glen]

im saying the opposite of this

im not blaming science for the nazis just like christianity itself shouldnt be blamed for what a handful of insane popes did with it

[full marten]

Nice, i blame Christianity

[half glen]

the church is to blame for that, not the religion itself

[humble gull]

I just say, I see no difference between believing in god and believing in fairy tales. I'm not saying you can't believe in those stuff, I'm saying that I don't like it

[full marten]

The church is an integral part of Christianity.

[humble gull]

That's it, really

[umbral wasp]

no, it's not.

[humble gull]

Ehh... Is it?

[half glen]

well i've heard christians make some rather insane interpretations of the bible that would have bishops spinning like crazy

[full marten]

If you're a Christian but very detached from the church, you're just kinda stupid imo

[umbral wasp]

this just means you let the Church manipulate you. they want you to think that.

[half glen]

:soldierweed:

[humble gull]

More like church inserted itself in

[full marten]

Well sure maybe, but it's not 2000 years ago anymore, it's right now

[half glen]

still stuff like protestant christianity is very detached from a central church

[full marten]

and yet it is still cringe

[umbral wasp]

that's a useless argument

[full marten]

sure, but it's my opinion

[umbral wasp]

"its cringe" is about as stupid if argument as "it's stupid"

[full marten]

I've made enough arguments in this thread already

[half glen]

ye

[umbral wasp]

you really haven't. at least not of the ones I've read. they all attack the church and not religion.

[humble gull]

Church really is the one causing all the issues

[half glen]

yeah most religious trouble can be associated to churches manipulating believers to further their goals

[full marten]

No i have also attacked spiritual faith, even a few messages ago

[umbral wasp]

not with any serious arguments.

[full marten]

I have stronger feelings about abolishing the church so it's easier to argue

[umbral wasp]

only with "it's not scientific" which, yeah duh, it by definition isn't.

[full marten]

this for example

[humble gull]

Ehh

[half glen]

i just really dont like the argument that religion itself is a fool's errand that we should entirely get rid of because it precisely sounds like the argument some crazy ultrareligious person would make against atheism

"ur belief bad my belief the only good one"

[full marten]

Summary of my positions

[umbral wasp]

yes which argues against churches lol and nothing else

[full marten]

reducing religion to a personal set of beliefs is stupid

[humble gull]

Ehh?

[umbral wasp]

no, that's what it is.

[full marten]

the last two paragraphs are about personal faith

[half glen]

i personally really dont think giving more books to children is going to magically erase religion

[full marten]

Sorry i meant to say science here

[half glen]

unless you go full dystopia and turn schools into reeducation centres that ban any sort of religious-like attitude, which, i shouldnt have to mention, is a bad thing

[umbral wasp]

"if we teach people science, religion will become useless" isn't really a argument against religion. it's a prediction of the future, which already has indicators against it: religious scientists (modern, as in, practicing in current times)

[full marten]

fair enough, but i don't care to argue about this specifically because i don't see it happening in the near future, or it really being that big of a problem

[half glen]

yea

[full marten]

okay my argument is that religion is stupid and unscientific, and i hope it's destroyed by naturally vanishing from society because better science literacy and other social support

[umbral wasp]

just pointing at a lack of science literacy and social support is so incredibly dismissive other peoples emotions I can't even

[half glen]

yeah

science isnt like, the true answer that will reveal itself to people and simply hasnt yet because people are uneducated or whatever

[full marten]

then what else should i include

[umbral wasp]

idk, your whole idea is very strange to me, i have no clue what else you could argue.

[chrome otter]

Genuine question

[full marten]

all religious people should seek therapy, ez solution

[chrome otter]

Do some people actually feel the need to believe

[umbral wasp]

...

[humble gull]

Well, they need to base on something

[half glen]

theres no "need" they just do

[umbral wasp]

idk if it's a need really? it could be, more often it's a want tho.

[chrome otter]

Interesting

[half glen]

its like asking if i have a need to have a specific outlook on life or ideology

i just do

[chrome otter]

i didn’t ask the question in an aggressive manner, no need to reply like that

[umbral wasp]

id say it's a preference for a lot of people, like you prefer certain foods

[half glen]

oh my reply wasnt meant aggressively, sorry

[chrome otter]

Because I grew up with almost no religious influence

I found out that people had this kind of beliefs when I was 8 or 9

[half glen]

but yes i think there is no "need" or "want" but rather a simple "thats how it is"

[umbral wasp]

like, do i need to believe that most people are not evil? no, but i really want to.

[humble gull]

Maybe people need to back up their morals smh, idk, I'm not religious

[half glen]

find it a bit ironic and funny the position im taking because im a very atheist (my beliefs could probably be described as a sort of "positive nihilism")

[chrome otter]

This is a good comparison

the first good one in this entire thread

[umbral wasp]

morals is also a big part. ultimately, if you look at the new testament and take out what the church has distorted, the morals proposed aren't bad. they're not the be-all-end-all but like, "if someone slaps you, present your other cheek" is based

[chrome otter]

OwO

[half glen]

i think its probably that due to life circumstances, influence of other people, whatnot, people acquire the instrinsic belief that a certain god or other supernatural influence rules everything etc

[umbral wasp]

not in that way jane

[chrome otter]

At least now I get why some people would have spiritual thoughts

[humble gull]

I'm more of "hold their hand if they try to slap you again" kind of guy myself

[half glen]

lol

[chrome otter]

“I don’t know if they actually do but I like to think people mean well”

[umbral wasp]

we haven't even touched on way less controversial religions, or at least ones with way less awful interpretations

taoism for example is really interesting

[chrome otter]

Janism best

[half glen]

honestly as far as im aware every religion that is more than 100 yrs old is involved in some crazy controversy

[humble gull]

Asriel is my god

[umbral wasp]

"be like water, take up the lowest point with no resistance"

[half glen]

zased tbh

[chrome otter]

Janism isn’t

That’s why it’s the one true religion

[half glen]

cute goat boys religious cult when

[half glen]

this is true !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[humble gull]

He absorbed 7 human SOULs and created our world

[half glen]

true

[chrome otter]

Some stories are scary

I’m not convinced that most mainstream religions are fully consistent or “good” but I can somewhat understand why someone could have spiritual beliefs

[half glen]

i personally see no difference between them and any other set of personal beliefs

this might be a bit of a hot take but i personally think everyone is "religious" in a way

[chrome otter]

If you open up “interpretation” then every religion basically tells you everything

[half glen]

we all need a little bit of the spirits and the magic to comprehend otherwise complex mental and emotional phenomena

[umbral wasp]

mainstream religions are often based on a church someone is in, and no argument there churches usually suck

[half glen]

essentially, yea

[chrome otter]

I am not aware of any spiritual take I have

All kinds of people in all religions

[half glen]

yea my big problem is with churches, theyre manipulative and inherently force people into one strain of thought

[chrome otter]

They can be good people but are they actually following the religion

[umbral wasp]

what's "the religion" anyways

[half glen]

yeah exactly

[humble gull]

To the dictionary we go

[chrome otter]

A common belief system requires that there is a common

[half glen]

the "common" can be very loose

[chrome otter]

Exactly

[half glen]

and can easily be bent to fit with anyone's personal interpretation

[humble gull]

The belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers, regarded as creating and governing the universe.

A particular variety of such belief, especially when organized into a system of doctrine and practice.

A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

[umbral wasp]

yeah the common could be "have all read the daodejing"

[chrome otter]

So it feels like everyone believes in something else under the same name

[half glen]

i think this is the case even if cultish religious

[umbral wasp]

that's a very Christian definition

[half glen]

you cant avoid a manner of personal interpretation

[humble gull]

It's a Google definition

[umbral wasp]

which sounds very influenced by Christianity

[half glen]

exactly (google is secretly a vatican psyops) /j

[umbral wasp]

and monotheism

[chrome otter]

I could be from the X religion that has the Y book with very homophobic takes and I could find it more likely that the book has been altered over thousands of years so all the bad parts aren’t the original

[humble gull]

Let me just provide my own

[half glen]

yeah

[chrome otter]

But then am I really believing in X

[half glen]

also remember that like

[chrome otter]

Or my understanding of an ideal X

[half glen]

a lot of the takes extracted out of books like the bible are bending the words themselves a lot

[humble gull]

Actually, no, my ability to define something sucks

[chrome otter]

We were told that the Quran wasn’t modified

[humble gull]

Giant blob of text

[half glen]

the bible not only contains absolutely ancient vocabulary, a lot of whats in it is esoteric, abstract, and purely symbolic

[chrome otter]

Somehow

[chrome otter]

Which I just find very hard to believe lol

[humble gull]

It probably was

I mean, congrats if it wasn't

[chrome otter]

Exactly lol

[half glen]

iirc the current version of the english bible is 400 years old, so 1600 years more modern than the original versions

[humble gull]

But that just would mean it carried all the bad with it

[chrome otter]

Claiming the Quran hasn’t been modified is very dangerous

Because then you have to explain everything inside it

[humble gull]

You can't make something perfect right away lol

[chrome otter]

Jane 5: the gays shall rise, owo

[humble gull]

Time to get killed in gay revolution because some religious leader "misread" that one part

[half glen]

ultrajaneists of the future be like: the straights must be brutally murdered as stated in jane 5

its simply the will of our lady supreme jane

[humble gull]

That's why goat bois are superior 👍

Azzy just doesn't give a fuck, you'll die anyway

[half glen]

ultradeltaruneists of the future be like: the non-goats will be beaten

[humble gull]

The Earth will just be goats

[half glen]

the earth will be goat shaped

[humble gull]

In Goat universe Goat sun never sets on Goat empire

• Technogoat, 20xx

Best bit about religion is that anything can be a religion

You just have to believe

Anyway, have a nice day 👌

[bronze heath]

it's literally not

it's an integral part of catholicism

which was called the "antichrist of rome" by some christian groups

quakers have a complete lack of clergy or unified doctrine

[humble gull]

Deserved

[bronze heath]

yes!

[humble gull]

Abolish the church!

[bronze heath]

i still call them that because it is an apt description

[humble gull]

Enough harm had been done

[full marten]

cool don't care

[bronze heath]

"[something wrong]"
"you're wrong and here are examples that prove you wrong"
"cool don't care"

you're so cool to argue with nebula

really willing to change your opinion

[full marten]

i don't care to argue anymore

i have shit to do

[humble gull]

Aight 👌

[bronze heath]

aight

https://youtu.be/RpkQEq75y18

[umbral wasp]

while I understand it's frustrating, this sort of response isn't too nice either.

[chrome otter]

unrelated:

laund is a great person

actually

[unborn copper]

people forgetting that the onion is satire part #374122

[bronze heath]

i know it's satire

but they have a really good point here when you interpret it literally

[unborn copper]

satire is good if you interpret it wrongly on purpose

that's unintentionally hilarious

[bronze heath]

Yes.

[bronze heath]

it's actually intentional

[lunar skiff]

let's keep things civil folks, the majority of this thread has been productive and interesting

[bronze heath]

i am purposefully wrongly interpreting satire as genuine for comedic effect

playing 4d chess

[lunar skiff]

agreed, they're a mod for a reason

[chrome otter]

laund owner when

demote tris

[humble gull]

Idk, half of it was anger vs trolls

[bronze heath]

it's me i was the trolls

[candid dune]

Yeah most do suck

[full marten]

based

[half glen]

laund owner when

[bronze heath]

now

[humble gull]

Tris left the chatroom

[hasty token]

Ooh what a thorny issue

[full marten]

you believe in heaven and hell

i believe in LSD

we are not the same

[bronze heath]

you believe in me believing in heaven and hell

i believe in nothing

we are not the same

[full marten]

bestie 😭

[umbral wasp]

idk, i dont think the basis of this works? i dont think religious freedom protects the right to opress

i hope at least not in any first world country (of which i don't consider the US part of)

[bronze heath]

it protects the right to think that oppression is good

[umbral wasp]

thats a lot less of an issue than protection oppression itself

[bronze heath]

and from that it is fairly easy to convince most of the population of that if you have a majority church-going population

[umbral wasp]

idk is it majority? i feel like it isnt

[umbral wasp]

in which country?

[bronze heath]

poland, US, and probably some other ones that i can't be bothered to check rn

[umbral wasp]

A December 2022 Quinnipiac University poll found that 68 percent of Americans supported legal recognition of same-sex marriage and 22 percent opposed it.[

[bronze heath]

fair enough then

[full marten]

I don't care about protecting "religious freedom" if that includes oppression. Same goes for "freedom of speech"

[umbral wasp]

A 2022 Public Religion Research Institute poll found majority support for same-sex marriage in every state except Mississippi.

[umbral wasp]

Þe paradox of tolerance: to be a tolerant society, it needs to be intolerant of intolerance

[bronze heath]

well i disagree

you don't need to be intolerant of intolerance you just have to beat the shit out of intolerant people

[full marten]

that's the exact same thing

[bronze heath]

i tolerate their existence i just wish they existed with like 10 more broken bones

[umbral wasp]

lol

[bronze heath]

they can exist all they want

just not near me

[umbral wasp]

yknow, that eda pfp fits you really well

[bronze heath]

turns out a contrarian character fits a contrarian person

as a discordian pope i declare eda a discordian saint

[full marten]

this is institutionalism i must abolish it with my hammer and sickle

[umbral wasp]

you really need to watch ToH eda is about as anti-institutional as you can get

minor spoilers ||literally lives her whole life a social exile because she rejected the (albeit facist) government||

[full marten]

i was referring to this

[bronze heath]

don't worry everyone is a discordian pope

[umbral wasp]

you... really dont get the irony in that?

[bronze heath]

and only popes can declare saints

[bronze heath]

? everything that's coming out of my fingertips is wholly genuine

[umbral wasp]

i mean, yes

[bronze heath]

unless it is preceded by a question mark

[umbral wasp]

oh hey, a liars paradox!

[bronze heath]

@chrome otter if you still care or are interested i found two more explanations of discordianism that might be more helpful to you that don't rely on "order", "disorder", or "chaos"

wait no three more

[vague island]

Behind the bastards podcast did a good podcast series on discordianism and illuminate

[bronze heath]

i'd probably listen to it if i liked podcasts

[bronze heath]

actually i'm just gonna list them regardless of whether anyone cares

• "everything may as well be subjective"
• "do what you will"
• "reality is what you make of it"

[bitter flume]

That sounds like the most non-committal religion ever

"Do whatever", "Be yourself"

[bronze heath]

yeah

[bitter flume]

"Nothing has intrinsic meaning so get silly with it"

That's how everyone lives life

[bronze heath]

not everyone

there are a lot of people that desperately want to be like someone else

people that desperately seek some true order in their life

people who couldn't fathom the usefulness of a practical joke here and there

or the usefulness of spouting nonsense like you're crazy

many people wouldn't turn that melody that's in their head into music

[umbral wasp]

for following a religion about spouting nonsens, you have spouted awfully much sense

[bronze heath]

but discordians encourage everyone to make things

even if they're bad things

things just want to be made

[bronze heath]

it's not about it

[umbral wasp]

/j

[bronze heath]

i think it is useful sometimes for some purposes to do things that other people perceive as having some sort of sense

same way the perspective that says we are having a conversation is useful

[umbral wasp]

i keep forgetting that when i really shouldn't

[bronze heath]

it's not inconceivable that some perspective exists where we're not having a conversation

[bitter flume]

Do you mean changing the definition of conversation or

[bronze heath]

partially

but it might also be completely throwing out the concept of a conversation

or thinking that this particular thing ins't a conversation but something else

in a way yes discordianism is non-committal

but it also requires the biggest commitment in a way

[umbral wasp]

this is not a conversation

[bronze heath]

the realisation that there is nothing

so you can make anything

it's not something most people are comfortable with

just saying "everything depends on perspective and 'real' metaphysical truth is unknowable"

[umbral wasp]

/ref ||c'est ne pas un pipe||

[bronze heath]

so true

this is all just data on a computer

real, true, and ideal conversation involves two people and i have no proof that you're a person

[umbral wasp]

you're right, I'm not

[bronze heath]

you might as well be a really good ai that was hidden from everyone for the purpose of tricking me into thinking i'm having a conversation

[umbral wasp]

simulation theorem letsgooooo

[bronze heath]

everyone is a fake except for me

[bitter flume]

What if my perspective says that that's not what an ideal conversation is?

[bronze heath]

then that's just as right as that hypothetical perspective

it's not more metaphysically true than that perspective or my actual perspective

[umbral wasp]

nahh, everyone is real except for me, I'm just a simulated brain while yall are simulated whole people

[bronze heath]

because no perspective has an actual claim to metaphysical truth

the all-encompassing true and real perspective that is universally correct

[umbral wasp]

i am the observer, I'm the witness of life 🎶

[bronze heath]

talking and thinking about discordianism fills me with so much joy

[umbral wasp]

/ref Marina - Ancient dreams in a Modern Land

[umbral wasp]

idk if i entirely get it but like, it kinda feels like i feel about The Satanic Temple?

[bronze heath]

oh no not the satanic temple

discordianism is like the satanic temple's cooler older sister

[umbral wasp]

what? not the church of satan, that's the meh one.

[bronze heath]

the satanic temple pretends to be atheistic while discordianism plunges head first into theism and sees what weird things come out

[bronze heath]

the satanic temple is also meh

[umbral wasp]

how so? they're incredibly based for making things a religious ceremony and therefore bypassing bullshit laws

also the tenets are actually just... good?

[bronze heath]

the satanic temple abuses religious freedom laws to bypass bullshit laws

discordianism bypasses bullshit laws by breaking them and abuses religious freedom laws to make silly things be treated the same as christianity by the law

they are not the same

[bitter flume]

Theism? Which Gods to?

[bronze heath]

eris

or epis

[bitter flume]

Why do they exit?

[bronze heath]

i hear the greeks weren't that good with spelling

[bitter flume]

How do they relate to a "being silly with it" life?

[bronze heath]

because we want them to

[bronze heath]

she is the goddess of disorder

[umbral wasp]

is there a registered discordian church, if so in which countries?

[bronze heath]

there isn't a registered church

a lot of discordians actually don't want to be registered

[umbral wasp]

then it can't really use religious freedom laws the same way...

[bronze heath]

fair enough

[bronze heath]

same way a lot of anarchists don't want an anarchist party

[umbral wasp]

i mean that makes sense

but like, practically what the TST does is useful

[bronze heath]

fair enough

[bitter flume]

Just read the TSTs fundamental tenets
They sound cool

[umbral wasp]

also, using satan to annoy the christians is just kinda funny

[bitter flume]

Except IV, that one sounds weird

[umbral wasp]

i mean, it makes sense in a way. it's like, not saying that offending won't have social consequences just that your are free to do so.

[bitter flume]

But it's weird that they specified it

[umbral wasp]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[bronze heath]

i prefer using physical violence to annoy the christians

[umbral wasp]

i prefer to be outside of prison

[bronze heath]

or just throwing shit in their direction

the enemy can't know what you're doing if you have no idea what you're doing

[bitter flume]

Aren't you just assaulting people, at that point?

[bronze heath]

hm wdym

[bronze heath]

the key is to not get caught

so you can do it again

[bitter flume]

"You don't know what you're doing" you do, you're committing physical violence (assault)

[bronze heath]

oh i didn't mean not knowing what you're doing in the assault situation

i know very well what i'm doing in that situation

i just mean saying nonsense meant to confuse them

or just throwing the turkey curse at them

[bitter flume]

What the hell lmao

[bronze heath]

the turkey curse

gobble gobble gobble

[bitter flume]

Actually derranged

I like to live with some sense of order

Order I give myself

With meaning I create myself

[bronze heath]

then you are free to do so

your discordia can be more ordered than mine

or whatever

[bitter flume]

Preferrably not getting turkey cursed lmao

I still don't get how gods come into play in this religion, tbh

[bronze heath]

they do

and don't

[bitter flume]

incredible

such information

so detailed

[bronze heath]

i know

you're welcome

[bitter flume]

But actually though

[bronze heath]

but basically eris is only there to provide some aesthetics and attributes

Discordia doesn't care, and Discordia doesn't give an answer.
Discordia tells you you're free to do what you want to do, and to
use Eris as your Appeal to Authority, as it were.

[bitter flume]

So she's a stand-in for... what, exactly?

[bronze heath]

nothing really

she supposedly created everything some time ago

and then organised all of her creation

but then noticed disorder which wasn't easily noticeable at first because everything was ordered

and then she let the disorder and order play with each other

most people just see her as a personification of disorder

and then add some stuff on top

for example my eris is all about being creative with reality and finding new beautiful perspectives and beauty and love

and obviously disorder and being silly

life wouldn't be worth living without disorder and being silly

[bitter flume]

So she's a stand-in for a creator?

Is she meant to be the creator is order or order personified?

[bronze heath]

order personified is her sister

aneris

where eris creates things aneris destroys them

continually stealing things from eris and destroying them

i wouldn't concern myself too much with mythology tho

it doesn't matter much and i don't particularly care

eris to me is mostly a metaphor that i can stick attributes onto

oh also completely unrelated but realising the point of discordianism made me stop being so sad and paranoid all the time

and stopped me from having brain fog

i just let my thoughts wander and tell the haters that my mind creates to eat a dick

[bronze heath]

the more i look the more nothinger everything looks and i start appreciating what i created more and more

[candid dune]

Bro I wish more people were like that

People just like... hold such value in certain things. Irrationally so

[candid dune]

Did I fucking reinvent discordianism?!

[bronze heath]

many people did over the years!

nihilists, egoists, and other social rejects with nothing to lose

or maybe everything to lose

[bronze heath]

it's not about being rational

they do it because they think they're rational

they think they don't have a perspective

they look for episteme without realising episteme is doxa

[candid dune]

Well yeah

[bronze heath]

that isn't to say that perspectivism isn't just another perspective

[bronze heath]

people who do that really annoy me

idiots looking for something unachievable while they think they're the smartest people on earth with all the answers

[unborn copper]

I know it probably isn't true but in my heart Max Stirner was made up by Engels to annoy Marx

[bronze heath]

it is most likely not true

but it would be very funny

[unborn copper]

it would

[bronze heath]

engels making up a whole new person and writing books as that person just because he wanted to hide counter-revolutionary thoughts from marx or whatever

[unborn copper]

Prussian police report on Marx:

[bronze heath]

need

[unborn copper]

more like neet

Marx was kept afloat thanks to Engels

that's the reason he could not die and publish his stuff

[bronze heath]

wow i hate engels even more now /hj

[unborn copper]

Engels was Christian and hated Marx' ideas of atheism lol

[bronze heath]

why do they sometimes seem incredibly opposite to each other

[unborn copper]

Marx (a theme for Marxists for some reason) really liked chess

here is Lenin losing at chess

or sneezing

who knows

[bronze heath]

i'm going to imagine that he was sneezing because he was losing

[unborn copper]

speaking of Lenin I hate how the myth that Lenin was sent by the Germans to Russia to "cause chaos" is so accepted

like why would the Germans even do that??

Lenin had to beg for him to be allowed passage through Germany and it happened in a protected train carriage because the Germans were scared he'd escape and run off into Germany

[bronze heath]

no government would ever be that cool

[unborn copper]

another Bolshevik (forgot her name) had to get into Russia through Sweden

[bronze heath]

my philosophy is the barstool philosophy

[umbral wasp]

isn't it the moral fortitude of a chocolate eclair?

[umbral wasp]

reminder that this topic is offtopic to this channel.

[bronze heath]

nah

[umbral wasp]

oh the quote was "you have the moral backbone of a chocolate eclair"

which is from Theodore Roosevelt apparently

[bronze heath]

ah

[umbral wasp]

but popularised by John Mulaney

[hasty token]

But what is a barstool?

[bronze heath]

not sure

[bronze heath]

but the various perspectives of most people usually share that part that tells them what a "barstool" is

[hasty token]

The barstool only exists because it's useful to us

[bronze heath]

yeah exactly

it is useful for us to share some parts of our perspectives with other people

that's how language works for the most part