#Apathy, crises, balance

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

wicked tapir
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One of my accounted for internal issues is being unable to work consistently. 98% of the time, i am completely unmotivated, often procrastinating for weeks struggling to care about ensuring anything beyond bare biological necessities to prolong my existence.
The remaining 2% is when shit hits the fan. External crises, sporadic coding binges and (sometimes in the past) end of semester crams are pretty much the only conditions that make me stop sloshing about, pull my shit together and get things done - and usually I'm actually really effective when doing that.

The problem with this is, of course, that it's not exactly what the world seems to expect of people. I can bite, but i can't chew - i am not appropriately functional for an adult in any normal day to day scenario. For the large part of my life i just assumed i was lazy, but I'm not as sure lately. don't know how much of it is my fault, and how much could be genetics driven.
Is stuff like this fixable? Are you supposed to find exploits in your brain's motivation system to try stuff it into some "acceptable" dynamic, or is it just completely futile to chase any semblance of normality?

frosty dock
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Exploits in my reward system are basically what allows me to not have starved to death yet

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I've got some for you:

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  1. be aware of this tendency of yours not to do things
  2. whenever you somehow notice that you're being unnecessarily unproductive, do a reality check: look at the things around you for a moment and name them and focus on them for a moment, then try convincing yourself it's good to be productive
  3. talk to a psychiatrist, maybe they can find good things (sounds to me like ADHD - the fast, technical videos seem to attract people with ADHD)
mild marsh
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@wicked tapir You're describing ADHD

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specifically this effect

frosty dock
hasty oriole
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Yeah, that's consistent with how I feel. I'm going through ADHD diagnosis at the moment

mild marsh
frosty dock
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also, i personally find that drinking some coffee for a while, then pausing for a few days and then repeating this cycle

frosty dock
mild marsh
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the expression for this is "Executive Dysfunction"

hasty oriole
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Yeah, I don't think I did a single piece of homework at home during my school career

frosty dock
frosty dock
wicked tapir
# frosty dock 1. be aware of this tendency of yours not to do things 2. whenever you somehow n...

1 - i am aware of it at all times
2 - from previous attempts, simply telling myself to stop fucking around and get to work doesn't help anything, it's like some kernel module refuses to expend resources on anything that it (not me) doesn't consider urgent enough
3 - that's going to be problematic since I'm currently in a foreign country, not knowing the language and with basically zero contacts

frosty dock
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i don't think ive ever done homework consistently at all

mild marsh
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I'd like to invite @wicked tapir to watch the above video - pause for a moment and take 15 mins, if you can - there are answers in there for this

wicked tapir
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alright

frosty dock
mild marsh
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hell, y'all should watch it

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very important

frosty dock
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haven't even been able to touch code recently, because of how big my executive dysfunction is right now

hasty oriole
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actually, I think I have before but I'm gonna again

mild marsh
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brb

frosty dock
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hm i really feel like fast, technical videos attract ADHD brains

frosty dock
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that monkey in my brain is sadly much bigger than i am

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(i consider my consciousness "myself", not my brain as a whole, because my brain as a whole LOVES to do things i dont want it to)

hasty oriole
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(I appreciate the irony of my procrastinating some work right now)

frosty dock
hasty oriole
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tbh, nobody is in control of their brain. Some conditions express it non-typically

frosty dock
hasty oriole
frosty dock
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thing is, even when i know for certain what to do and try to send the signals to do that

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sometimes they just dont go thru

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and i end up sitting there unmoving for 5 minutes

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or 10 minutes

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and when im then REALLY bored i do something unproductive

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like reading the entire wikipedia page on ethanol

mild marsh
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my favourite part is the NAME for that

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THE DARK PLAYGROUND

frosty dock
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yeah

mild marsh
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ie doomscrolling

frosty dock
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EVEN WHEN IM LITERALLY THINKING "HEY STOP I NEED TO GET UP" AND TRY TO MOVE MY LEGS

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the monkey is like "NOPE!"

hasty oriole
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I have the really awful combination of ADHD and depression. I do fun things when I'm meant to be doing other stuff and, when I have time to do whatever I want, I can't get the motivation to do what I want

frosty dock
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but then there are also times where im quite productive

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and coincidentally im happier during those times

hasty oriole
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depression/adhd is a sadly very common comorbidity

frosty dock
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so it can't really be full depression, more like phasic depression (if that's even a word)

hasty oriole
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yeah, that's fair

devout mural
hasty oriole
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interesting... I'll check him out

devout mural
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It helped me a lot!

hasty oriole
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his wikipedia more than passes the sniff test, haha

devout mural
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He's the unfortunately very rare combo of a good scientist and good science communicator

hasty oriole
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cool

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haha, I just laughed to myself because that playlist if all short videos (which I'll watch) and not an hour-long video (which I would put on a to-watch list forever)

frosty dock
wicked tapir
# mild marsh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arj7oStGLkU

watched it. that's how my school work used to function, but the problem also extends way beyond deadlines. There was a part of me that enjoys when shit hits the fan - in a really fucked up way it liked the 17km bike ride across border with Georgia about a month ago, the 5 days i spent working 10 hours a day on a $110 commission forgetting to buy food, etc

devout mural
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The videos are bite sized for an adhd brain :p
I still managed to procrastinate for months on watching them

hasty oriole
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I hate deadline stress, I've had enough of it

devout mural
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Me too bud

frosty dock
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the only times i managed to not exceed deadlines is in online school because it was new and interesting and therefore i could get hyperfixated on it

mild marsh
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Self imposed deadlines are a good trick

wicked tapir
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it's like my brain is hardcoded to be a parasite unless it needs to become a weapon

frosty dock
devout mural
mild marsh
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I asked Lucy to say "lost terminal will return next week" at the end of LT ep 1 even though io had no episode 2 because I lnew I would procrastinate if not!

hasty oriole
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Tris-imposed deadlines are good - I only missed, like, half of them for Heliophage

mild marsh
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Heh

frosty dock
wicked tapir
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oh yeah

frosty dock
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that's a GOOD idea

wicked tapir
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having people sounds like it'd help

frosty dock
mild marsh
hasty oriole
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but seriously, Heliophage is maybe the only creative endeavour that I've completed in my life and that's a lot due to making an external promise

mild marsh
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Accountability!

wicked tapir
mild marsh
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We could do it here if you like

wicked tapir
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putting this here already took some boundary breaking

hasty oriole
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Yeah, I think that that's maybe not a one-size-fits-all situation

frosty dock
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OH IT MAKES SENSE NOW! it's a developmental disability

devout mural
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Ya

frosty dock
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because i actually wasn't supposed to speak until i was 6 years old due to a major brain-induced autoimmune reaction (thankfully this is gone now)

devout mural
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Genetics and damage to the brain are the two causes of adhd

frosty dock
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ended up speaking at 2 however because it went away slowly

devout mural
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I'm glad!

hasty oriole
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wow, yeah, that's amazing

frosty dock
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i had severe allergies as well

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inhaling the smell of cheese was enough to get me to have to leave the room

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touching cheese got me to the hospital

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(cheese is just one example)

hasty oriole
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You say "had", have they all gone?

frosty dock
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yep!

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i love cheese!

hasty oriole
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oh good!

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I was contemplating a cheeseless existence and it was making me sad

frosty dock
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i still have some of the allergies but not as many and most of them dont get me to a hospital

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a cheeseless existence would be horrific!

frosty dock
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that doesn't sound like it's about ADHD that much

wicked tapir
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well if it's ADHD i am kind of fucked

frosty dock
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how so?

wicked tapir
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as i already said, i'm stuck abroad for the foreseeable future, so getting professional assistance / official diagnosis / medication is probably going to be a problem

frosty dock
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let me walk you through some questions

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do you often fidget with something, or move your feet while sitting?

wicked tapir
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no

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well, at least i don't notice i do more than anyone else

frosty dock
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do you forget many things?

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especially when you are supposed to complete some task, but forget some part of it?

wicked tapir
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not in a sense of sporadically dropping a memory. I consciously remember the task, but often my brain makes me ignore it until it fades into background noise

frosty dock
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alright

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do you interrupt people talking?

wicked tapir
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yes

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specially if they are struggling to come up with a phrase and i feel like i have a better idea (it often turns out to be false, i am not great at talking)

frosty dock
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yes!

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alright!

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do you often lose things?

devout mural
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that's literally what it is

frosty dock
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ah

wicked tapir
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it's different when there are family members arbitrarily reordering things

frosty dock
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as in do you forget where you put your phone sometimes?

frosty dock
wicked tapir
frosty dock
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do you feel a feeling of restlessness often?

wicked tapir
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as in?..

frosty dock
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feeling the need to do something but not knowing what, or moving around in your chair

wicked tapir
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not really, the state where i'm failing to do something i know i should is kind of a fractal of self loathing, but a very static one

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no jumps

frosty dock
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alright

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do you often get distracted by things?

wicked tapir
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yes

frosty dock
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do you often look blankly into infinity, including when someone is talking to you?

wicked tapir
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no

frosty dock
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do you often overlook details?

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and do you have difficulty maintaining focus on one task or activity?

wicked tapir
frosty dock
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do you sometimes not read the full task or text or whatever?

wicked tapir
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happens

frosty dock
wicked tapir
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if it's not something my brain deems a first priority, yes

frosty dock
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do you get lost in thought?

wicked tapir
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idk

frosty dock
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as in, do you daydream randomly or feel like you're not quite present?

wicked tapir
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kind of hard to answer

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it may not be something my brain logs reliably

frosty dock
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log it

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logger.level = log::Level::Debug

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these are your ADHD symptoms, i think they should be enough for a diagnosis

unknown.png
wicked tapir
# wicked tapir kind of hard to answer

there are rare recorded daydreams (and for one reason or another, when they happen they often include uh. ||imagery of me torturing or maiming someone. but that may be besides the current topic||)

frosty dock
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is that always the same person?

wicked tapir
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no, it's never a person

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faceless victims

frosty dock
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hmmmmmmmmmmmm

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you are definitely angry at someone

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do you know if you angry at someone and do you know who that may be?

wicked tapir
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they've sort of happened on and off over several years, my anger at any person does not live that long

frosty dock
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hm

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idk then

wicked tapir
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probably irrelevant

frosty dock
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maybe you can see even more of these as true, or i made a mistake

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but these are most likely enough for a diagnosis

wicked tapir
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yeah inattention group is probably a hit

frosty dock
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aka ADHD-PI

wicked tapir
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i'm not entirely sure what to do with this rn

frosty dock
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i would say you basically just make yourself aware of it for now

wicked tapir
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yeah guess it's good when your parasite has a name

frosty dock
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yes

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and you can also now google the condition

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also, it'll probably help knowing there's not actually much wrong with you

wicked tapir
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from what i gather it's unfixable, so there is much wrong with me

frosty dock
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but youre not doing something wrong

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that's just a brain thing, not a "im a useless piece of shit" kind of thing

wicked tapir
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hardware imposing arbitrary restrictions on my use of it is equally upsetting

frosty dock
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to me it was a little relieving to know that im not doing something super wrong

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now anyways, there are medications that can help

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those include coffee, but coffee has tendencies to cause annoyances, so it's not perfect

wicked tapir
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i really dislike its taste

frosty dock
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how do you make your coffee?

wicked tapir
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i don't

frosty dock
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most coffee is absolutely horrible

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anyways

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uh

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tea works too

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(only the tea with caffeine in it)

wicked tapir
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i already drink a fuckton of tea

wicked tapir
frosty dock
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tip: pause for a week, itll be much more effective afterwards

frosty dock
wicked tapir
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nope, never seen any caffeine related markings on tea packs, neither in russia nor in georgia

frosty dock
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hm

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black tea and green tea (i think) usually have it

mild marsh
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tea from the tea plant certainly has caffine, tea from other plants, probably not

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if it says chai/tea it's tea 😆

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want to play a game? Your native language says "tea" if the plant arrived by sea, or "chai" if it arrived by land

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чай in russian, right? chai.

frosty dock
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here in germany we call everything tea

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including that from other plants

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so there can be confusion :p

mild marsh
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yeah, same here, like rose 'tea'

frosty dock
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yeah

mild marsh
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companies have started branding non-tea as the french word tisane

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tea vs tisane

mild marsh
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certainly for india, china, and russia, and afaik much of europe

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sorry to de-rail the thread @wicked tapir I also think drinking enough tea is a good option

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ADHD medicine is LITERALLY amphetamines - a stimulant

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(of course please don't self medicate, the stuff prescribed is VERY low dose)

slim crow
frosty dock
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mr. plate's videos really attract ADHD brains, don't they

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sir plate the adhd magnet

slim crow
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I really don't know if this is ADHD because it's not about delaying till deadlines, it's more about pent up energy from doing nothing being released all at once (which I'm unsure relates to ADHD)

frosty dock
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hm idk then

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the rarest of exceptions: a neurotypical no boilerplate viewer /j

devout mural
wicked tapir
mild marsh
wicked tapir
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i think there were times where I'd drop it for a month. any effect would return for not too long after that

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like 5 days maybe

mild marsh
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Drugs are difficult 😄

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I strictly have no tea after I finish work, maybe this helps me?

wicked tapir
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i can make a heart attack brew with 2 table spoons of tea leaves, half table spoon sugar, a slice of lemon and some ginger in a 1.5L thermos. it would probably have some effect, but i don't think that would be sustainable

wicked tapir
hasty oriole
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Caffeine receptors reset after about 2 weeks with zero caffeine

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I've done this a few times and that first coffee afterwards is intense

frosty dock
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im currently doing that

hasty oriole
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it's a good idea

frosty dock
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also, remember: when you force complete boredom upon yourself, you will want to do anything you can possibly do. channeling this energy into good things can be very helpful

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i occasionally just sit in a room for 10 minutes to collect boredom

hasty oriole
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sitting with yourself to just be for a time in the moment is always worthwhile

mild marsh
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Didn't Newton figure out calculus because he was bored in quarantine in his house outside London, hiding from The Plague?

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(that's a mood)

frosty dock
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(it is)

wicked tapir
frosty dock
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wdym?

wicked tapir
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depending on background mood, i may be able to spend days doing almost nothing and not get bored

frosty dock
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by doing nothing i mean go into a room with nothing interesting and not moving for 10 minutes

hasty oriole
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Not being bored is fine

wicked tapir
frosty dock
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hm

mild marsh
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I wouldn't demonise entertainment (what a hypocrite!) but you shouldn't be scrolling EVERY waking moment right?

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thinking about your life and plans is useful

hasty oriole
mild marsh
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AH right

frosty dock
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i often find myself going endlessly thru youtube video after video (not shorts, they suck) and tactical boredom can really help me reset that

hasty oriole
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Doing nothing is absolutely a great thing and is, ironically, the thing that I think most people don't do enough of

mild marsh
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I try to sit quietly for 5-10 minutes in the morning each day before I turn on my computer, and just let me brain tell me STUFF, and if it's useful, write it down on paper

frosty dock
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XD

hasty oriole
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(Caveat for ND brains: making an active choice not to do anything is way better than an ADHD inactivity spiral)

frosty dock
frosty dock
# frosty dock school does that job for me

i spend so much time on irrelevant things that i've started just defocusing on purpose during times of no relevant info and thinking about stuff and writing good things down

hasty oriole
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(usually while making coffee)

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I do need to incorporate note taking into that though

mild marsh
frosty dock
mild marsh
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defocusing on purpose during times of no relevant info
I tend to do this when I'm not working cleanly, it causes my off-work time to be fuzzy too

frosty dock
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i mean defocusing not as doing something else

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i mean it as doing nothing

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and just being bored intentionally so i can function during times of relevant input

mild marsh
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ah gotcha

wicked tapir
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well

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stopping caffeine intake to use it for control later sounds like some sort of plan

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but also i should find a way to wake up and not freeze without tea

frosty dock
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hot chocolate.